The Sun. — London, England, 1820-05-16 00:00:00

oF` ifs l'hey lirecto l and etlitidi mini - )der o' S C.l Elle, numbe r - ed into iirse 01°1 not 'Ole; icy tv 0 0 (I in 1 61 hose (), record r the CO ° rive spo re mode °I his vi" ced rt' 1) 0 ' tpon lien fro°, iliteo , ' rn.die 0, propel., iks ft) %vb.' it 111 it 4" : l (), of the: (1 it) rl i!I yl I lr ~ I~w h ~ viS, the ee l ' Jolly .1 not I" eveti it, I ll° • C 5,f 4 THrti Irl 41 1 rOll a hit of I)an il* f br arse emegil e4 - ..rl' ~ tvliiCM 1 WK4 L a° 5 tO f ed of 4.1 4 : offes itted f° n d lie ele ti hi or IV in4l lic # diet 0 ‘vololti tcnsiv e migh t It 1 1 '; )n Id }-1"i oC,A• ,n(10- 44 , sy7 .3P it 01' ;r ~i~~~ ~~ )gs " 11 Lof‘l (I op- ,A H 3. , a 9 I° s till. i(, I- cei'r 00- .„ . , at'n the rionse, ailopting the Repast at fire Cerntflissioners. to alter the constitution ot the Court of Exchetrter in Scotland by taking 'away one of its Judges. He coold not, without some previous inquiry, consent to act on the re commendation ot the Commissioaers in opposi tion to the decision of the {edges in Scotland, to whom time question had been submitted. lie could assure the Right Hon, Baronet, that if 'he sup posed-that Government were not disposed to fol low up the plans of the Commissioners for effect ing reforms, where these wei;e practicable, with Zeal and activity, he was quite wroug. It was common for the Gentlemen opposite, especially in a new Parliament, to labour to make it believed that all was virtue on their side of the House, While every thing that was hostile to it appeared ton the other. He believed that both sides of the Houk were ankious to promote the real welfare of the country, and the attempt alluded to he conceived to be made tinder the impression that it would have an effect on Gentlemen who had not much Parliamentary experience. lie would say, that histoty proved that impure motives had as often been firund among the opponents of Mi nisters; as among those who had the functions of a GovernMetit to discharge. To his mind thear gument of the Learned Lord was perfec:ly sat is. facto! y, where he contended that the Commis *loners, though fitted to conduat the inquiry as signed to them, were not qualified to pronounce On the constitution of the Court of Excheqoes.— This Ire believed was the first time that ever :he liouse had been Called on to affirm, not a report from a Committee of their own body, but to de termine inertly on the day diction of tour Coin- . Missioners out ot five, that tour Judges would do as Well in one of the -Courts as fire. If compelled (fide on the present motion to-hight, he should certainly give it a tregstive. But he did Prot feel stifficieoily informed on the subject to be Satisfied with his own decision, and he bad no Objection to put the business into a fair course l a s inquiry. He would move the previous Tres ciao on the motion before the House ; but if the Noble Lori; would move on a future day a Committee to inquire into the subject, 151 . e should offer no opposition to the motiow•— v-(lear, hear !)—He had to remark, that the opinion expressed by the Commissioners seemed to have been given with great caution and doubt, and. he knew no man more competent to form a Properjudgment on the subject than the indivi dual who had dissented from the Report drawn up by his brother Commissioners. He differed from fire Noble Lord when he assumed, that b2.cause One of the Judges had at times been absent, it was clear that his presence was unnecessary. The Suestioti Was not whether it could go on at all, but whether it would go on so as they could wish it t o go on for all time. That great luminary, Lord Mansfield, it was well known, had been ab sent for -a considerable time from Court s hen he Presided in the King's Bench ; but was it thence to be contended that the office of hiet Justice ought to be made a sinecure ? lie showed that the business of the Court of Ex chequer in Scotland differed materially from (bat ' of the Court of Exchequer in England ; and he 'k Was eoifident, that of all economies that was 'Mutt abhorrent to the common sense of the peo- Ple which went to affect the Bench. The toes lion 'was not whether 20001. could be saved (not That lie 'undervalued such a saving), but what v oulti'be' the best constittition for the Court of l'secholquer in Scotland. For the Commissioners be felf`great respect, but he could not prefer their 44 thority to that of the tour Chit Judges in Beotland. He was willing t o meet the N o b le L ord,' and give him an opportunity of proving his 7'"e• li e was not prepared to say what be would up witierespect'to the appointment in question,— ( l eal' !)—Th e cheers that had just been heard .lot surprize him. The Gentlemen opposite ~ ra re gen era ll y l oud i n proportion as theit. argu :ieut 'was wea k . Th ey were never so happy as "en they got a qtresion whi c h involved some c act i s um as a tee„sand, pounds, for then they : 1141 say wh at t h ey p l eased, and might hope to a T i ry their point by c l amour. i n was, however, ,i a ttle t oo much to say that the distress corn et ined of amon g the people - could he materially , 4retl ny :he decision of - the House on time pre -._ne, „notion. The Chief Baron of time - Contt of t:ttl.reqUer in Scotland would onot have prosti 4. treat name by approving of the appoint-; duel v t q reation, bad it not appeared to hios con-, e to the better administration of - justice,— ,:,,Pflointriment was - the more d es i ra b le as Sir ,tu 'tray, having b een R emembraneer to the h e u _ r .i t i fOr nin eteen or twenty years, was tiltitnate al,,,caclsTknted with ell th e d eta il s of i ts business, . e . f so 20 001. p e r annum was - thoug:it an obj ect .. li' fio : u treat importance, it migh t b e something *eyed o f the appointment that 10001. was Ito u yraktu Sir P Murray in 4,111 v . preference to "`". r individual. The practice of inatituting mi ens _ o v f, the Where an alteratio n was made in any Tio lo. r, had been co mmon i n all former cite Then L ot d H ar d w i ck was at the head . t. ourt of• Chancery, th e 'R eports of the snnl`lr I":mssioners app o in te d to conduct such an tre:o Y Were submitted to hint, and from him usineetosled those volmninous decrees by which the r • 01 t h at •Conrt had ever been regulated , n aafi judgment 'Lord Sidmouth would have lae c aii llet i l t be taken any course. but that which the b ) 1) rsued on the present occasion— if avben e e „ e (k_ i el oil of the Commissioners had been re by the % o, I whole of the Law Authorities of ie liratl withdrawn a part of the Con sine hung up the Court in a new and I , ll ste s B , 4 t i le o ,, s ,t": t es vei'th four Judges on the Bench !r. Its a p i ni L":', The Commissioners had not, io If "" , fairly into the merits of the 11(Ige °0 inqnity it should appear that four 3 Were sufficient, he should have no ohicc -411 to I v . e r, dinel(ll_ll' being dispensedvith. He how the I ." ) litlitk that it would be consistent ' of the H ouse to act on the die commissioners. He concluded by question. e:(1 11118"4-4ivprevious retrial ked , it bad been complain- L.ord. Ministers had been that side of the House for not ma le:'-ong du e • it " regard for econo m So hel e tr i torrid u o s thi„k Y• P Inu l am s , l 'Akii • that the did show a ile bad watched their con tor f or it, malt 1, Years) and did not believe that • • • •, economy - 1 - 7i19 to be e x p e cted irom them; that (the opposition) side Of th e House it was proposed, it wits immedi a t e ly s aid t h at they were going to overturn the State--;-why did they not confine rhemselyes to something practical ? If they called for a small practical Reform, the cry then was, " 0 what a noise you make about no thing." The meaning of all this was, that Mini sters wished it to he Undersrood that they were the best judges o f what ought to be spent, as well as of who should spend it.—(A laugh.)—Their system was such, that they had no chance of keeping their places, but by preserving their patronage untouched, and thus circumstanced, th e y could not afford to part wi , h the third part of a 'fifth Baron of the Exchequer. They, if an useless person was proposed to be removed, immediately raised their voices against breaking up an esteblishment, and the establishments thus protected they considered a part of the Constitu tion of England. All that surprised him in the present debate was, to find that the dexterity and ability of the Noble Lord had not been impaired by that state of health which bad lately kept him from the House. It seemed to he the determina tion of Ministers that they should gest nothing by the motion for the appointment of it COM!iiiSsion which they had carried five years ago. The Learned Lord, who was new to that House, must be surprised at the conduct of the Noble Lord. Tee Learn e d Lord had nor seen that inquiry was wanting, and bad come down like a Man with the articles of the Union, to contend that five (Ba tons of the Exchequer) was the good 'old Scotch number—five was their watch-word, and five Ba rons they would have. After this he must have been surprised when the Noble Lord turned round upon him and said, " we will have an imp-4y." The country Gentle Men were then told to beware of those opposed to the Government, and to sup port Ministers. He would ask if they in their experience had ever met with so dexterous A joggle before ? He for his part was clearly of opinion that no further i n quiry was necessary. It was rather odd, as five was the favourite :mas her, that the Noble Lord should in the present instance appeal from five to tour—from the five Commissioners to the four Judges. He was of opinion that the Report ought to be adopt ed, and he thought no man could seriously say that the Articles of Union could be a bar to any economical arrangement that the circum stances of the times might make necessary. It was the office of thm Eiviise to recommend retrenchment to his Majesty's Ministers ; and when they reitieri to t re it, it was time for them to interfere. His urns coeeiction was, that it was art act of patronage. 7.1 e (tit( not doubt that a fitter person th.ln Sir Patrick Murray could not be found. But under the circumstances o f t h e case, could any alan doubt that it was a down right, plain, ouequivocal job I—(Hear, hear !)--- At least they might have abstained front filling up the situation till the inquiry bad been gone into. We in Englimi, said the number of four was the proper one—the number under which we had prospered. There were but tour Barons to the Court of Exchequeein England. lie did :lot know where that equality of numbers which the Noble Lord (Castlereagh) said must be. adopted, was to be found. It was to 'defend the establish ment that this deed had been clone ; a n d i t w as simply because that establishment. did exist, that this practice was rerseverte!‘itr. What chance, he asked, had they this Seseion of coming to any conclusion in this matter Here was Sir P. Mur ray in possession in the first place. The House bad to appoint its Committee ; and the necessary witnesses iced to be brought up from Scotland.— The fact was, that Government intended to give the go-by to this question. The appointment never would have taken place if Government durst have refused it. But they thirst not. Sir I'. Murray was backed by great interest—interest in rotes in that House ; and lie had followed it up with dexterity and gained his point. He so far acquitted the Noble Lord •(Castlereagh), that he did not believe he had ever been consulted about the appointment. But once done, he had not the power to interfere. The system must be pre served ; every one has supreme jurisdiction over his own department. One Noble Lord says to another, what right have you to interfere with what passes in Scotland ; another, what right have you with 'the Admiralty; and again, what have you to do with what happens in the 'Treasury ? —That he believed to be the real history of the transaction. The Noble Lord talked of their going into istqeiry, but what did they want with inquiry? They had beard the opinion of the Commissioners on the subject ; if they thought the Commission ers entitled to credit, they would vote for the motion of his Noble Friend. A late Chief Baron lied see' that four were enough ; and against 401 opinion was only brought that of a Learned Judge, who, before his removal to Scotland, was an ornament to that House, the Chief Commis- sioneriof the Jury Courts. He knew that worthy character, from mere good nature, would acquiesce in the wishes of his fellow colleagues. But it wes to be remembered he was quite a new one, and could not be an efficient judge in the matter. Five for ever was echoed by all around him, and lie was tempted to join its was not for the dirty 10001. that they contended, but for' the independency of the act. How crsuld the House shut its eyes upon this appointment, made in its vet-'y teeth ? With what disgust must the pen pie view the transaction. Here was a short intelligible proposition. They saw they had to pay Commissioners for the purpose of discover ing what retrenchments might safely be adopt. ell, and in the instance where one was ex pressly pointed out by them, Government went directly counter. All that he desired was that Gentlemen would soberly consider of the question before them, without any partiality on one ac count or another. If they thought that the ap pointment ought -to he done away with, they would ;less a vote of censure on the appointment of a new Baron. He had heard but our expression on this suirject— e that of surprise at the Noble Lord's (Castlereagh) falling into the mistake he had. But there was no reason,on that acc o unt, that the House should fall into the trap of the Noble Lord. If that Noble Lord bad influence enough to induce the House, in the manner he proposed, to give the go-by to this matter, he should look upon it as a strtougerproof than' ever ing : that do e — eciiiOnry was to be expected froni the preient inistet s. Sir !t. riUNDAS stated; that the Commissioners had; itt foiir short lineti; withtint assi‘gning any reason, Stater )that the appointment was unneces sary. The Chief Judges, men of &relit experience mid tincinestionahle integrity, hfid eotne to a dif ferent decision, and they had ftirtlished then with the grounds upon which they came to digit de-- Lord A. HAMILTON said, in reference to what a Noble Lord (Castlereagh) had said, that he did not intend to confine his motion to the one at pre sent before the House. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw. The discussion, however, continued with ebbed doors for a period exceeding an hour ; eve afterwards found, that upon dividing, the numbers were, For Lord A. Hamilton's !notion 177 Against it 159 Majority • On strangers' admittance toto the Gallery, The SPEAKER said, the question was, that the Vacancy in the Court of Exchequer in Scotland ought not to have been tilled up moil the Report of the Commissioners had been made, and sub_ Milted to the consideration of that house ; after which the previous question had been moved. • The original question was negatived without a Mr. BROUGHAM wished to be informed whether tile Noble Lord intended that any future vacancy I in the Scotch Exchequer Court should- he filled I Lord CASTLEREAGH said, before he gave an answer, he .must ask what steps the lion. Gentle man tueant to adopt in such an event ? Mr. BuouGnmst said, that there had been so mitch Scotch business, that they were obli g ed to proceeei step by step lie was not prepared with any precise question upon the subject, but gave notice that, on the 25th instant, he would make a motion respecting the propriety of filling up Offices io ale Scotch Jury Courts. The South Sea Company Bill was read a third • time, stab passed. On the motion of Mr. LUSHINGTON, an Ac count of all Salt used for the purposes of Agli- Culture, froM the 25tk March, 1819, to the pre sent time, was ordered. Mr. LusHINGTON obtained leave to bring in a Bill to render secure the Propeity of Suitors in the Court of Exchequer. 'lite other Orders of the Day were disposed of, and the House adjourned at One o'Clock. LAW INTELLIGENCE. COURT OF KING'S BENCH, MAY 15. SENTENCE ON HCNT, &c. At eleven o'clock the case of the King v. Henry Hunt and others earne on in the manlier follow- The Lord Chief-Justice ABBorr.----Mr. Attor ney-General, do you move ? The ATTORNEY-GENERAL.—.I pray your Lord- ship's judgment in the case of the King u. Henry Hunt and others. The Defenduhts were now called, and after a short delay, they ill came into Court except Johnson, who was finishing ,his affidavit. Al! the defendants wore while hats, and Hunt appeared to have provided a new one for the oc casion. At half past eleven, Mint, who had retire iagain came into Court, accompanied by Wooler, i and Pearson the Attorney; Johnson came in im mediately afterwards. The Lord Chief Justice ABBOTT--Well, the de fendants are all here now, I see. Are your affi- I davits all ready now ? Hunt--They are, my Lord. The Lord Chief Justice Asaorr—We wish to I see bow many there are. Hunt—l should like to see if any affidavits are to be put in in aggravation. The number I shall put in will depend upon that, The Lord Chief Justice ABBOTT-But you must put in all the affidavits you intend to read first. In some instances, under particular circumstances, affidavits are allowed to be filed in reply. • The defendants now consulted, and each then handed in some affidavits. An affidavit made by Hunt was now read, con taining a lung tirade of the same species of reit which- he - employed at York on the sub ject of the Manchester Alerting. ! • Johnson's affidavit was next read, and chiefly complained that he was disenrded by all his cos tumers and the respectable inhabitants of Man chester, in consequence of his connection with this affair. The other defendants had also made affidavits •complaining of the treatment they had received since the commission of the crime of which they stand convicted, and reiterating the old calumnies relative to the Ma►►cttester Meeting. The Requisitionists or the Meeting also made affidavi!s, asserting that the object in calling it was a lawful one. Other affidavits were also read, stating circum stances supposed to. 'be connected with the Meet ing. Among others . , an of made by a man named Nicnolas Whitworth was put in, swear ing that he had seen four hundred persons who had b e en Womnied at the Manchester Meetiag, and who exhibited to him gun-shot and sabre wounds ! A great part of ibis affidavit was rejected, as the facts to which it deposed were not affected to be within the knowledge or the deponent. Another affidavit was put in, charging Chad wick, one or the witnesses for the prosecution, ,with endeavouring to encourage persons to pur chase ?istols and pikes previous to the meeting ; and also alleging that he was unworthy to be be. lieved;on his oath, The ATTOWNRY-GRERAL objected to this affi ,avit, submitting that such allegations against a ~~ ~I:+r, lin ; Witness ought to have been proved at the by oral testimony. Mr. SciaLaTT added, that the defenthinH plenty of time from the protracted length of :he trial, to send to Manchester for %vitnesses to Hill effect, if such could have been adduced ; and they had actuallyadopted' that course with respect to another witness. Hunt stated, that the present deponent could not then be founts, but he knew where to " prick tor" the witnesses who deposed to the hail charac ter ot the other person alluded to. He also sub mitted that as Chadwick was not a witness on the pull of the indictment, he could nut be aware that he would be called. Lord Chief Justice A BBITT stated, that the only difficulty the Court had, was in allowing its Rule as to the reception ot affidatits in mitigation of punishment to be extended b,yond that boon. Clary which strict justice required.—The Learned Judges consulted. Mr. Justice liavLeY theft asked Hunt, what part of Chadwick's testimony the affidavit in ques tion was calculated to itnpeach ? Hunt replied, that Chadwick had sworn he came by the side of, his (Hont's) gig from Stock port, and heard him invite the people to hiss and shout. This affidavit was- to contradict him iii that respect. Mr. Justice liAvl.RY—Your own affidavit does not Legative Ow. The Conn, after further consultation, de'cided that the affidavit in ►lnestion must be rejected. '['hen defendants catne up for judgment, it was not for them to be casting general slurs and impn atinns on the character of the witnesses against: I)eni. Mr. Hunt, after the affidavits were disposed 01, addressed the Court at considerable length, and went over all his eld topics. Johnson, Healy, - and Bamford, the other de fend4uts, severally read address es to the Court, which were principally appeals to its mercy. The ATToRNEY-GlsNisuAL. pointed oul the mis chievous consequences of the conduct of which the defendants had been found guilty, and de scribed the serious and alarming character of their ploceedings. Their affidavits, he contended, in stead of extenuating, only went to aggravate their offenees. Mr. SemiLeTT and Mr. Serjeant Caoss ed on tkae same side. A considerable pause ensued whilst their Lord ships were in deliberation on the quantity of punishment which they ought to . aw4rd. Halt an hour had elapsed before Mr. Justice BAY LEY pronounced judgment. After reciting the in dietwent, and the particular charge upon which the Defendants had been toned guilty, his Lord ship went at some length into the circumstances of the case. That it was a charge nt a most seri ous nature no one who read the evidence could tor a moment deny. His Lordship censured the conduct of the defendants, who had taken advan. (age of the distresses of the people to excite :theta to illegal acts. It was well known that distress prevailed to a great extent at Manchester,. and therefore an assembly of persons su situated could not be peaceable, or, in any sense of the word, he said to be a deliberative one. He asked, was this the way to remedy their distresses ? It a represeL, tat rots was to be made iu the proper place, lie wits convinced a deaf car would not be - homed to it. No one could doubt that the Resolutions of the Smithfield Meeting were extremely improper, and it was incumbent on the defendants to show that they did not mean to propose similar ones at the Meeting at Manchester. 'This had not been doge at the trial, nor had it beenaloue by.affidavits since put in on the part of the delendants, In the ab sence therefore of such proof, it Was rational to presuMe that such Resolutions were intended Id be proposed at the Meeting at Manchester.—. His Lordship then to , k a view of the evidence as it applied itself to tire defendants individually, and censured as criminal the endeavours made by them to look upon a Reform in Parliament as a cure for all their ills. It was making a belittle of their distress, and only irritating feelings which before were festering in their breasts. The ques tion of the conduct of the Military or the Magis. (rates, the Court could not inquire into; for it would be unjust towards them, as prejudging tire question. Under .011 these circumstances, the Court had taken .the mrifier in'o their serious consideration, and feeling themselves . called upon, as far as in them lay, to protect the public peace, and prevent the lower ordets from being brought together in large numbers, and having seditious, and, to them, foreign speeches delivered,. did order and adjudge, that for this offeit . ce the defendant, Henry Huut, should be committed to his Majesty's Gaol at Dellester, in the county of Somerset, for the space of twb years and"six mouths, and at the end of that time to find sureties t o k ee p t h e pea e e f or five years, him self in 10001. and two sureties in 5001. each ; and the other three defendants, Johnson, Healy, and Bamford, to be confined in the Gaol at Lincoln, each for the space of one year, and at the end of that time to firol sureties, themselves in 2001. Eliot two sureties in 1001. each, to keep the peace for five years, and to be further confined until these securities were perfected, and in the mean time to he committed to the custody of 'the Marshal of the Marshalsea. After the sentence, Hunt asked if he was to he put itisolitarycootinement.—The Court intimated that they had made no order haying float effect. The defendants were taken out of Court, and conducted, through a number of persons assembled in the Hall, to a coach. STOCKPORT MEETING. TEIR KING V. SIR C. woLsELRY AND JOSEPH HARRISON. The defendants were brought into Court to receire sentence. Judge BAYLEY, addressing Sir Charles NVolseley and Harrison, said, they had been convicted by i Jtiry, and it become his duly to pass on them tiler judgment of the Court. The information stated; that the.defendants, being seditiously disposed, and endeavouring to excite tumult and insurrec tion, on the 2Stl► of June, with divers other per sons, to the number of 5000, by force of arms did assemble to disturb the peace, and being so assembled, did, by certain speeches, incite the E I)€' oqt roof' firs otr