The Sun. — London, England, 1820-08-31 00:00:00

PARLIAMENT, Tt;OUSE OF LORDS, WEDNESDAT, Aua. 30. THE QUEEN. .ICuritr-:,Litation of the Proceedings of Yesterday.] The following is the conclusion of the exami i•.tit'.on of Bartoteal() ..11agarell, or Miardi, writer director of the Princess's Gardens : - • Cross-examined by Mr. TINDAL. WAS first applied to on this matter bya personrs hosß name he does not know, in February, 1818, ighteen months ago. The person told witness that he Must go to Milan. Went to Milan ac cordingly to the house of the Advocate Vilma cart. Saw there, besides Vilmacarti, two or three persons he did not know. Was told these two or three persons were Englishmen. Heard afterwards that one of them was Colonel Brown, and the other Mr. Powell. Was examined before these persons. His examination was taken down is writing, and he was. made to sign it. Had he known he was to come before a Tribunal he would not have done it. lie also swore to it ; but not on the cross. They only told him to tell the truth whether for or against the Princess. Received, to pay his expences going to Milan, 20 francs, but was one franc out of pocket. Left Italy to come here, on the 29th June, with twelve other persons, all of whose names he does not know. The wife of Majocci was one of them. The person who first told him he must come over to England was one Rastalli, a man who had been in the service of the Princess. Q. Do you know why Rastalli quitted the Princess's service ?—A. I do not know. Did you knew Rastalli while he was in the Princess's service knew him before—when I: was at Rome. Recollect yourself. Do you not know that he was dismissed from the Princess's service for stealing corn ?—(Some Noble Peer objected to this question ; but it was put.)—l know nothing about it. But who spoke to you to come to England be sides Rastalli ?--Colonel Browne. Did Rastalli take you to Colonel Browne ? Rastalli came to tell me I must go. On the 27th June I received a letter which obliged me to go to 'Milan. What agreement did Rastalli or any other per son come to with you for corning here ? M'r. PARKE objected to the question in this shape. His Learned Friend had no right to as sume that any agreement had been made. Mr. BROUGHAM contended that it would be a -new rule in cross-examination if such a question were not allowed. The LORD CHANCELLOR decided that in strict ness the question could not be put. . Was any agreement made between you and Rastalli for coming over here ?—There was not. Was any agreement made between you and any body else ?—f never made any agreement. What was your occupation when you left Ittly ?—A. writer. • • ,A.m Ito understand that you made no agree• aent with any body on the subject of your corn ingfiere ?—I made no agreement with any one. Was any promise made to you that you should receive any thing for your trouble ?—None. Then have you left Italy and your business without any promise of compensation ?—They .gfive me no promise of compensation. Have you seen Petruzzio since you came here? —I do not know him. Have you seen Majocci ?—I have. • Has Majocci told ,you how he was examined • 'here ?—Tie has told me nothing particular. .Have you never spoken to him on the subject ? ---4tajocci and I were talking together, and he told me if I went up stairs I should see how many people there -were. Did he not tell •you that you would see two -sets of Counsel, one on your left hand another on your right.?--lie did not. IT.as o other person. put that in your head ? Nobody. ;Did Majocci dine with you yesterday ?—Yes. And sup ?—Yes. Alas that. been the case every day since you canoe to England ? Have you lived together every day since you came to England ?—No. Nave you seen him most days have seen • birn since the time I came here. You have stated that you saw the Princess and Bergami in an open carriage on the banks of the Lake-of Come—Are there not many villages and houses surrounding the Lake of Como ? Yes, villages and houses. Is there not a great traffic backwards and for *Ards on that. Lake ?—Yes. Is there no road round the Lake ?—There is . • a road, a featpath for the cocntry people. But is there-not a regular intercourse carried on from one side to the other by boats.?—There *ere always boats passing to and fro, carrying wood, charcoal, and other things. Was the, carriage whiCh you describe as that •; • in which you saw the Princess and Bergarni an open carriage ?—lt was act open carriage, a kind of small chair. What is the size of the Lake of Como?--It may be a voile or a mile and a half broad. What is its length ?—I cannot exactly tell ; I know the distance from one town to another ; it way lie sixty or seventy miles long. The witness was then ordered to withdraw. Paulo Raggozzoni was called back for re-ex amination. The Loan CHA.scr.r.r..ort ordered that part o the examination to be read over to the witness which related to whether he had been examined since he came to England. The Earl of LAUDERDALE said, the witness bad never said that he was not examined-in Eng land ; but that he, had not 'conversed with any body on the subject. The former questions and answers we then read. The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, the best and shortest way would be to ask the witness if he tad ever been examined in England. The Lonn CHANCELLOR then directed the fol lowing questions to be put. Q. I)oes the witness mean to say, that he ne ver was examined in England previous to his ap pearing here this mornin?•?—A. Some.versons took me into a room, and asked me if I hod said so and so, and I answered, yes;',"... - :\ • When was that do not kriow'fbe day. Earl of LivEnrooL—How many days is it ago ?—lt was last week ; I do not know the day. Mr. BROUGHAM—WiII your t ordship ask the witness, if the person who took him into the room had a paper in his hand ? On the question being put by the Loan CHANCELLOR, the witness answered, yes ; he had a paper in his hand, and was reading from the paper, and asking me if it were not so and so and I said yes, when I knew it was true. The Marquis of LANSDOWN remarked, that as the witness had said in answer to a former ques tion, that he never was examined since his exami nation at Milan, and he now acknowledged hav ing been examined in England, he wished to know the reason why he had given the former answer. The LORD CHANCELLOR said, the most regu lar way would be to read the question and an swer alluded to by the Noble Marquis to the witness, and then ask him what he meant by that answer. The Earl of LAUDERDALE wished to know the time and place of his last examination. The Earl of LIVERPOOL saw no difficulty in the business at all. The witness said he had not been examined since he was at Milan ; but when the question was put in a more specific manner, as to his being examined in England, he said yes. Earl GREY understood the witness to have stated he signed a deposition he had made at Milan, and that since that time he had not been examined. Nov the question was, what did the witness mean by saying he had not since been examined On this question being put to the witness, he answered— " I was thinking you were asking me if I was not examined at Milan before I came to England." The witness was then ordered to withdraw. Mr. GURNEY, the short-hand writer, having asked if he might send away his notes, a desul tory conversation ensued, in which Lords GREN VILLE, LAUDERDALE, and REDESDALE took part, j on the necessity of being assured that the notes were taken correctly, and that the printed Mi nutes should be compared with the Notes by Mr. Gurney, and furnished to the Counsel with the utmost promptitude. Mr. GURNEY said he was particularly attentive to the correctness of his Notes ; and had exa mined the printed Minutes, and he was not aware of any inaccuracy, unless it might be in the names, which it was difficult to get correctly. Paoli Agrani examined. Paoli Agrani was then brought in, placed at the bar, and examined by the ATTORNEY GENERAL. What Countryman are you ?—I am of Lodi. Were you ever in the service of the Princess of Wales ?---1 have been. In what capacity ?—Under cook. How long were you in that service ?---Almost a year. At what places I—At the Villa d'Este and the Barona. How long is it since you quitted the Princess's service?—lt was in the year 1817. Did you know Bergami ?—Yes. Where did you first know him ?—At Lodi. How long ago ?—Between the years 1808 and 1809. In what situation was Bergami when you first knew him ?—I have seen him about Lodi, and then in prison. Where did you ever see him in prison ? Mr. DEN3Lts objected to this question. He thought the Attorney-General had no right to pat questions respecting the conduct and situa tion of the individual who had been named five or six years previous to the time when those acts were alleged to be committed, which Were the subject of this inquiry. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, he had merely asked the witness where he first knew Bergami ; to this the answer was at Lodi, and in prison, and he had then .inquired where ? The question was not repeated. Was Bergami in the Princess's service when you were there as Under cook?—He was. What was Bergami's situation in the Princess's Service while you were there ?--Baron. You say that he was Baron. I ask what was his situation in the Household of her Royal Highness ?—He had command over the House hold. Did you ever see, while you were in the service of the Princess of Wales, the Princess and Ber gami together have. Where have you seen them together ?—Going out andin the kitchen. When you have seen them walking, in what way were they walking ?—Arm in arm. Have you ever seen the Princess riding have. Has .any one been with her when you have seen her riding ?—The Baron and one of her servants. You have said that you have seen the Princess and Bergami in the kitchen. in what manner did they come into the kitchen I—They came arm in arm. When they so came, for what purpose did they come into the kitchen ?—Sometimes to eat some thing. By sometimes, do VII mean many times or few ?—Man y times. Yon say they came for the purpose of eating. Had they any thing to eat ?—They had. When you were at the Barona, did you ever know any balls to be given. by the Princessl-1 have. Who used f 6 attend those balls p—The country people, people of low rank and condition. Did the Princess use to 'dance with thQS per- sons ?—No, she danced by herself, and sometimes with Berganti. 139 t did she dance at the same time with the country people who attended those balls ?—She did. Do you know the wife of the innkeeper of t e St. ChTitopher "Was sN attllke .A. • Do you know any of the other persons who came to these alls ?—There were the daughters of a farmer of h whom the Princess had hired the Barona. What do you mean by hiring the Bona ? Do you mean hiri n g as to tenantcy Yar ?—es ; the man who hired the land of the Barona. In which rooms were the dances held ?—ln the dining-room. Were any of the other rooms used on such occasions ?—Yes. What other rooms ?—lt was a room next to the dining-rooms, which opened on the stairs, that led to the room of the Princess. At these balls did any of the Nobility residing in the neighbourhood attend ?—No. At the Barona, have you seen the Princess and Bergami together ?—I have. Where ?--Walking out and in the kitchen. When walking were they alone ?—I have seen them alone. Do you know a person of the name of Maho met ?—I do. Have you ever seen him perform any dance ? —I have. Have you at any time when Mahomet was per. forming this dance seen the Princess present ? Her Royal Highness was present. In what manner did Mahomet dance ? [Here witness imitated the motions of Maho. met in the dance, as they had been previously imitated by other witnesses, bending the body forward and snapping the fingers.] Were those the only motions that he made ? —I have seen him several times, and always making the same gesticulations. Did Mahomet at those times do any thing with any part of his dress ? Mr. DENMAN objected to the question, as to the conduct of the Princess at such times. The witness had only stated the Princess to have been once present at this exhibition. Was the Princess present at this exhibition once or more than once e than once. Where ?—At the Villa d'Este, and at the Barona. What part of the house was she in at those times ?---The kitchen and the Court. On those occasions, did Mahomet, when the Princess was present, do any thing with any part of his dress ?—He put his breeches so that he made a kind of a roll of them, and did so (mak ing a disgusting motion.) Whereabouts was that roll—in what position was that roll ?—His breeches were twisted be hind—l beg pardon, they were twisted before so—(lmitating.) Did the Princess look at it ?—She Did she say or do any thing on these occa sions ?—She laughed. Cross-examined by Mr. WILDS. Q. When did you leave the PI incess ?—A. In 1817. Were you discharged for drunkenness? —No. Did you go away of your own accord ?—When the Prin cess went to the Court of Rome I was left behind with six others. Were you discharged ?—Yes; but it was tills new order would be made out; but this new order never came. Did you receive any pay from the Princess after that ? No. What service did you next enter into ?—To the service o a Priest, but I do not recollect his name. iVhere did he live ?—He was Minister to the peat Hos pital at Milan. He dwelt at Milan. How tong were you in his service ?—A year. And after living a year with him, de you not know his name ?—1 have not got his name. When slid you enter into your last service ?—When I left the Princess. How soon was it after the Princess left to go to Rome ? After six months. Do you mean to say that you were out of service for six months after you left the service of the Princess ? [The witness here remarked that he recollected the name of the Priest. It was Bourbona.) Were you ont of place six months ?—I was. Where did von live all that time ?—ln my house. Where ?—At Lodi. How did you support yourself, during that time ?—ln my house. How did you support yourself 1-1 lived economically on my money. Were you a married man at that time ?—I was. Had you any family ?One. Do pro mean to say that you bad saved money enough to maintain yourself and family for s ix months I—l do. Are your wife and family here ?—No. Where are they?—At Lodi. What was your employ in the service you have mentioned ? —That of footman and under cook. How long were you in that service ?—Almost a year. Where did you go then ?—lnto the service of the Vice- Prefect of wh ere were you when you were first applied to on this business ?-1 was at Milan. Who applied to you ?—I was applied to by the Police. Had you ever mentioned any of the circumstances stated to-day to any one before ?—1 bad not. Are you quite sore that you were applied to first at Milan ) —I never said any thing except when 1 was sent. I minded m y own business. Were you examined at Milan.—l was. How often ?—Once. Was your examination put down in writing ?—lt was. Have you since beers examined ?-1 have not. Have you ever been examined since, either in Milan or in England ?—1 base been examined also in England. Had the person who examined yon any paper ?—He did write, hut Islo not know what paper he had. He wrote down what 1 said. The question is, had the person who examined you a paper, and not whether he wrote down what you said ? He had. Who applied to you to come to England ?—The Govern ment of Milan. Were you sent to an Architect ?—Yes, I was. Ilave you given up your place ?—Yes. Do you know Rayzelli ?—1 do. Have you had any communication with him since you lift tire Princess's service?—No, I have not. Do yon know Majocci ?—I know him here. How long hare you been here ?—1 do not remember. Have you uen Majocci every day since you have been here? —Yes. And Rayzelli ?—No. You described dancing; who were present when they per formed ?—The Princess and the Baron. Were you pre-ent ?—I was. Anjhody else ?—Yes, many others; but I paid no attention who they were. Re-examined by the ATTORNEY-GENERAL. R. You have been asked if the person who examined you had a paper, and read it ; did he read it aloud or to himself? — A. "Be Inuir.elf. Have you been in England more than once ?—Yes. 'How loug ago is it since you first came here ?—I do not re member the day. Where did you come to when you first came to England To MI) . Do you know the name of the town ?—I don't knoW tbi name. Did any thing happen there ? Mr. Denman objected to this question as leading to eve r ! thing that was irrelevant, and therefore he considered it "'- neither proper nor decent to rat. - r The Attorney-General maintssled that he 'had aright to put the.murstion; that it was bOtiPalnent aneproper, ar', appeallerlato tire course pursatid inslllq,fammision.i, for to prove, on. his part these waNno d ositiN toloniunieun' ,neaassavYtx ttfeir Lordships'llinie. t ‘ -3 •• Mr. Denman contended the question went t o g ive the ge' t ! to the cross-examination, and to lead their Lordships '"" irrelevant matter. so; The Lord Chancellor said any q uestion mi g ht be put '- grew out of the nature of the cross-exan - ,ination. Do you recollect about what time you arrived in Englan d? —I d not remebr when I arried in Englan. Can you recall m no e circumstance v that will brin d g it to Yn' i recollection ?—I lande at Dover. How long did you re d main in England after you first n r rived ?—A night and a day. !There did you go to from England ? Mr. Denman objected to the question as a waste of there and The Loan CHANCELLOR said was difficult to see to Ti the question applied. The Attorney-General said, questi ons had been put to 01 : witness on the cross-examination to slim that the witneSs:i were living together. He was th erefore desirous of she° why that had been thought necessary. sel Mr. Denman replied to the Attoiuey-General in suppe r the objection. The Attorney-General said, he had no wish to raise al prejudice against the accused; but be wished to rem*" prejudice unjustly entertained againat the opposite party. 1 Mr. Denman contended his Learned Friend was our,t, order. He (Mr. Denman) had m ade his objection—the At' torney-General had answered, and he had replied; aod conceived he was not at liberty to proceed further. O pt of Long CHANCELLOR said he had to state, that lit 40 of opinion, and that it was the unanimous opinion of all t ° Judges, that these questions ought to be answered. ~,f C I s: Lord Lassnow.—l wish the witness to state whet.... 0( those two occasions when he say s Mahomet danced ia t,p kitchen and in the court - yard , the Princess was the Pers, who sent for him ?—No, the Princess never sent fur hie' my knowledge. You have stated that Mah omet twisted ' his garments lit' a roll ; do you know what that roll was meant to represent: —(The answer was of a nature which decency forbids ti mention.) 0' Did her Royal Highness remai n or g o away when b e made it ?—She remained. Lard LIVERPooL—I wish to know whether the Nita, that her Royal Highness d id not send any one for '''o,t hornet, or that she did not send hiru ?—I don't know wbstol she ever sent any one else or no, but he kn ows that she c and looked at hint. 1 Lord ELLENBoRoUGM—How long did she remai n, to at him ?-1 did not pay attention, I had other occupatioo• Did site appear gratified by the exhibition ? ill'° Mr. Denman begged to remin d their Lordships that ic ,y question was of a nature that could not lead to any tit that could be received as evidence. ( Yes, very greatly. O l t Lord LAUDERDALE. — I wish to know what happened te' witness at Dover:— bi l l ut. Mr. Denman said he must again tender his humble Lion to this question being p Unless it cauld be •W ) ,(' that the Princess was present when the circumstance red, or that it was in some wa y connected with her con • the question, lie should contend, ought not to be put. , t d Mr. Baanorinat joined his voice to that of his Lesr j d, Friend, in objecting to this question. Counsel, he conte, i nd 4 ' had a right to object to q u e stions p ut b y the Lords. In P o , logs' case it had Leen allowed, as well as in maq ° I which could he cited. 4 The Loan CHANCELLOR said , that in his own opinielTii which he was backed by that of the Judges, the questiePool to what happened at Dover , co uld not he p ut, unless it 'fa' he shown that her Royal Highness was connected in sorar with what happened at Duerr , and unless there was 0;° foundation in the cross-examination of the witness, fur a question being put. j 0 0, Lord LAUDERDALE, after a f ew words, catisenteu tor the question. ", Earl GREY thought that their Lordships aught trae%',/,! their utmost discretion in putting questions to the witn' o fl Above all, he thought they ought to he careful not r t ioel questions which, in the course of the cross-exarni ° l should have heel, objected to by the Counsel, and the tt i tioo.A .11, ,;t.., th,. r u d e ..... Lord Fatastoum-1 wish to know if the servants ask rd ,4/ friends to the balls which the witness has describ e d?.- ' know: I attended to my business. ..os'.. Then they were not servants' ba l ls ? — N o ; they •' E, A Peer.—Did you consider the !notions of MahoMettlli usual and customary motions in dancing ?—He alway s , ed these gestures as a customary act in his dances. Or A Peer.—We're women as well as men present a.t dances of Mahomet ?—'!'here were nu women. Witness withdrew. Louisa Dumont, examined. i A female was now introduced, eleg silk hil t/ii.' lace fri ill round her neck ; her gown appear eo be black sarcenet. Louisa Dumont was placed at the Bar. 1 : did not appear at all disconcerted. Slierj Iva 4 ' sworn in the French language ; the ...-- 5 ? Spinetto, the Italian Interpreter, acting 1 interpreter on this occasion. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL.—Q. Of what try are you a native ? l lr Mr. W ILL IAMS-1 beg pardon : does th e • t oe , ,/ ness speak English ?—Witness—Very li 0 at' Mr. Williams—How long have you been in this e° - 7'rois 7710i5. And you are sure you do n ot u nderstand Eng l ish • r te The witness answered in F rench, which was We? / " I understand a little, very little." stO tri The SoLICITOR - GENERAL resumed—Of what co,. you a native ?—Uf the Pays de Vaud , i n Switzerlan° • it Are you a Protestant or Catholic ?—A Protestaul Ole t Did you enter into the service of the Princess of / l I did. eu e° Where did you reside at the time just before I v i her oya Higns's ervice ?—At Bologna. , l e s' Where did you fi s rst s go to see the Princess of NN° e 0 Geneva. 0 ,' Did yon engage with the Princess of Wales at F !" I engaged in her service at Geneva. m, Did you in fact enter her s ervice at Geneva, or fcer" at any other place ?—At Lausanne. I re Did you proceed front L a usanne to Milan ?--Y es° , for fire years. 1 14 i In what situation ?—First fe mme de chambre•lll? yid 1 When you arrived at Milan, of whom di d her eth ness's suite consist?—Gentlemen and Ladies• 00 First the Gentlemen ?—Dr. Holland, Capt ain Craven and Mr. Gell. te l 'i ,A Now the Ladies ?—Lady Forbes. Where did you reside at Milan ?—At the Itel aI ;0 11 ; ( 1, Do you remember a person named Bergatai bei 0 0 1 at that place in her R o y al Hi g hness's service?"' ,;('. well. C° ll o` . oed?' 4 In what situation nr capacity was he enga- hr a;s s How niany days was this before her Royal Hig ‘ O. Milan ?—About fifteen days or a fortnight. _ et Ise l 4 , Dining the fifteen days did Bergansi Wall I' ' Highness's table ?—He waited at dinner. p ie' ' Did her Royal Hiedn.ess pass through Rollie ° flop ,t Naples ?—Yes, site (ltd. W. l " i Do you recollect a young person, named 0 , ;‘, with her Ro)al Highness ?—Yes•an irl/ t .., Before the Princess arrived at Milan, d° Y - _ ra ill f j; W. Austin was in the habit of sleeping e n n e ` 5. b it rally he slept in the room of her Royal Hl3n the pig Il t( 0 Where did her Royal Highness sleep 0 ° she left Naples ?—At the counts y-bouse s i eptoso t i t o l) , /e g ,:: ho l t ) i: i e Yi(t)idhrer-c'lldilievcatl v'H'hicgthilteurtss\'‘sl.rAoontisiti?'—' f c, a . 1104 ?. ot i Did her Royal Flightless, about that ti s t::',aus i j oit i ott versation about the sleeping-room of _. O IV. ',,,0 6 l a Royal Highness said the same evening t 1 ''and be , lit ~ become too big a boy to sleep in her roorus . 0 0,, a private chamber. t 00a aI io" Up to this period did Bergami bre akfas „ble' ( IV,' other servants ?—He dined always at our he f on se' table. Hi N g r li h i a le t ss r ' li t" ' was. s.„, s ie . ot . Berge° v Do you remember in v hat room - de n ?--I'l, • g $ ll , osnalLoris,vaals aatpNpraiiptiltees(l?—folr r u e trig:tea:, roul'o, Der er ,„, iiiialit after your arrival at. Naples • pi Was it near to the one occupied by lie f Yes. NV room WI and I Co garni' IV ; fiorn utit IleSs . ally tiles, at N Di edea bed_. fur 0 13tr atvi v t)i t, go to NV twee 1); It , I)j Ys, Hi g h 1)1 ear 4 tic Ti for ; Will v l~~s I'h