The Sun. — London, England, 1815-03-09 00:00:00

c i'L a jAer :"" ae4 , n re be said to be a benefit to him t' to lreland and Scotland, wheaten bread was :It:, subsistence of the lower claiVes of the of those countries. Potatoes - formed i the of th ose of the former —oaten brelid that of latter. He thought the numerou:Oetitions rted aliri against the measure deserved - attention ; though he would he far from being'ac all in fluenced by those mobs, which he considered so t!lStr . • !laceful and so' injurious to the cause he had ftrulertaken, that the voice of the peopleconsti-' li'e l ."nally expressed ought-al:Ways to 'have its gilt. If he had nothing but the base and conduct of the rabble of 'London to con 'lderi he stionid leave the House w ith , saying trl'd fur t h er against the measurew but out yth'ell he nsidered the general importance o f th e, sin l iject , sliould attend to it to the last: 1 - • k 'Jr. CHARLES LONG WaS sure, that if any class :Jere particidarly benefitted by the measure, it 1 41 be the poor. If the fanner did not get a t ', lf fic : ' tit price for his produce, he could not ern -I,'lttiy labourers, nor pay his rent, and then the il',anufh.oturer would have no one to buy his ma- Ilnfheturrs, and Consequently could not employ the ();':• Rents were not, generally speaking, ex ir.,l.llt4nt• Rents held 'only the .same proportion tnalutfactures now as they did twenty years O. He could not consider that there was any IPreeipitation in passing this Bill. There were nany would probably still speak on the qnestion, atid he did not strppose they would bring many ideas to it. How then Could a subject which been so discussed as to be extremely exhaust ube said t o b e prec i p i tated ? He thought that for °• Was not t oo hi g h a pr i ce, and should there ,. support the measure. 511 %:MARCHBANiti. said, that if the Bill did not leas.,, it wou ld b e destructive to those farmers' who Ad laid out great capitals in the improVement of their lands. Calcraft and Mr. Marc aine: Mr. FusttAy was convinced that the expl price d was ton high, and should therefore vote for the amend theeit. Mr. littslttsson said, ort that when the Report *Rs brought, surely would be com p etent to up surel i 114 7 ‘iernher to propose an lower rice, and h t herefo re wished that the Re y port may be recom e ttitted ; but it the amendment was carried, A lower price could not be proposed. Mr. FrICLAY said a new Bill could he brought in. ,* Mr. .r.{ 'aid that he Should do every thing tic.could to prevent rapidity in passing, rite mea s''re. If Gentlemen would say that the ,IlePort should be read only pro forma, step by he would cOrisent t o it ; but if they meant only to gain one saying that amendments could be hereafter pro porid, he would oppos e it in every stage. I , _ _r• Rusitissou explained. only deceivi Arr.Pßesr " said, that a less price Would be n l 4 the House and the country. ' w t . •‘•lttniG said, that he would consent to reaepPled. the, Amendinent, if Gentlemen word(' ,Otentseives th at th e ero forma Rut ' 4 ` s !tenon should be only they would as he coma not suppose that agree to so gracious a measure, 'Would insist 01) to the House. No former Ine.isure of t ' ' this description had been so precipi ?net. Former Corn . left - fo 1 Bills. had been printed, and tountry„ r t le purpose of collecting the sense of the illy, CH should As. Forties thought 80 s . too hi gh, and therefore vote for the Amendment. A thrision then took place, when the numbers Were-- Against the Amendment 168 . For i t 50 Majority —lts kr B On our re-admittance into the G a ll ery, we f ound tehi A artqc complainin g o f t h e prec i pitation with eh the Bill was attempted to be hurried through the I-louse. He said he would prefer a protection to our agriculture by a duty on foreign Corn, rather -than by prohting it. By the latter we would .Put money into the pockets of foreigners ; by the termer we would ' t ern broug gi veht ill the Bill f or the purpose of catch a little popularity. (No, no, from the Trea- Y benche s ). They diet not ; why, then they (IWiked popularity. He far preferablehad spoken to several r ."et of information outside of doors on the,.sub ecr on of the Bill, and the i y all agreed, th a t a pro. t"ti to our agrcelture, by duty on foreign r c. i .', l *'. Was :far Why the n such hairy? • "e County of Wiltshire, Ile believed, met on ~ Ois ,"'3' day to petition against the Bill. The Peti il" he had this night laid on the table from Car. ~:l s ' e i b ad not half the number of signatures that .1.-"I'l be affixed to it had there been time. ' The j''san th e Ministers give for this precipitation is i:lie,,frtnent of the public mind. The disturbances th e esrtninster he considered very disgraceful to _o,,,alice Magistrates. There was gross neglect 'thi,tileir.parts. The windows of the 'President of i t : , 43 " a rd of Trade, he believed, were sacrificed to 7.ll)::; l 'e're Was perfect tranquillity in the City, where b -- " ti ° l l against theobnoxiousßill had been signed : A r seventy or eighty thousand persons. Even the p e e o e : t iag of 'Westminster on the subject had been 4,rei!el.lY orderly. The Honourable Gentleman it. on, to observe, that he felt as great an 7 0ixi a-olsf,, e q'as any !Mill ill that House to promote the , , .• - - t.,,,.juity of Ireland; but the Bill in its present vv,,`"abl certainly be a curse to England,what t(); ' i 't otight be to Ireland. As a landed proprie_l,i,' "e eared not one sixpence about the price of to„tireuts, provided the tenants were good. If this ...,,,,,:),qy were confined to its own growth, a ge 7 , ,iip,',l fail ure in the crops might be calculated 1 ) ,,,!" aoce in every three years ; a fact whick ex , - 1),., ) 7 11 c:e ha,d proved to be the average of deficient : ;1 1% .. ( ?e• We therefore could not depend with. 41 tid '' e gree of certainty upon our own sopplies ~,,,, 'odess foreign COl.ll Were to be alloeved to t t , 2 e to with liberality, we should never . be a ble I,,itliNtliqiid it in times of scarcity. lie concluded 1!;1,1 "bserving that he tvotild not have risen if he 1,,, t "at ‘vislied to intreat the House not .to shcw \vilierQe i Pitancy in getti ng rid of the ineasfire, i f) 11 %Vas actually like th e operation of cowardice Plzi ct 'eir hiihds at t h e proceedings that had taken 11:0,ii e ""t of doors. I t ' was unjust towards the "iii , Li llis to persevere night after night hi hur- th„:4 oti the iiie;istire. IVhat he would recont hl;e44"'tld he to' let the Bill ► go tirrough all, its L-, viol time for full deliberation. He should ,r,..for_ . " move, thut instead of " now," the -, tle z 4 r^rt 4 ):' .•!% !ErtNi ti“.; After the Easter Recess. Mr. ROBINSoN said, that as every thing-40kb had been done by him had been grossly .misre presented, he would not stiffer any statement which censured the part he had token to'peiss nn noticed or unrefuted. He desired to know what the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Baring) meant by the assertion, that he (Mr. Robinson) bad sacrificed the best interests of the country for the sake of catching a little poptilarity ? (Lund cries of hear, hear !) What he had done in preferring a mohihiting price to a duty, he knew to be for the best interests of the country ; and he repeated,.. that he called upon the Hon. Gentleman to ex plain his Meaning. Mr. BARING explained, that so far from con sidering the conduct of the Hon. Gentleman in any personal light, he had made no allusion what ever to him in that way. He had merely stated, that it was the generally prevailing opinion, that a dnty would be preferable to a prohibitory price.. He would say, that he apprehended his Majesty's Ministers, in bringing forward ibis measure, had supposed that the word duty would be misunder stood and unpopular. Mr. RonissoN rejoined,.that as the Hon. Gen tleman had said, that his remarks were notaneant to apply to him as an hh% idual concerned in bring ing forward the measure, he had not a wish be yond such an explanation. The CHANCELLOR of the F 4 xcintatimi rose with much warmth to repel the insinnations'of the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Baring) respecting the cause of what he called precipitation. When he. heard the conduct of the House censured as indecently precipitated, he would repel the charge with that degree of firmness which every Member ought to show upon such an' occasion. If the House in the course of the consideration of the Bill before them, had made any great alteration in the plans of his Honourable Friend, •so that they appeared dliferent from their original state, there might have been some reason adduced for procrastination ; but as this had no t b een t h e case , h e did not think that any necessity existed for delay. Ile there fore trusted the House would not suffer themselves to be taunted by the insinuation of cowardice— (Loud and long continued cheering !) and be thus induced to deter bringing the question to an im- Mediate conclusion . ; or at least to settle it ivith all possible speed. He would firmly deny that the House had been at all influenced by thedisturbances about which so much had been said ; but he would not deny his apprehension that any unne cessary protraction of the measure might en danger the peace of the metropolis. There would be much more reason for the charge of cowardice, if the House were to give way, in every stage of the measure, to the threatenings of a riotous and outrageous mob. (Loud and reiterated cheering). Having said these few words, he must now beg leave to refute some of the •charges which the Honourable Gentleman had chosen to throw out against his Majesty's Ministers. He had accused them of sacrificing their opinions to a wish for popularity. How far they had either sought for or obtained popularity by the measure must be evident enough, from the language and conduct or. the people. whose possions he would contend had been artificially excited and inflamed by what they had heard against the measure, without un derstanding its tendency or nature. If he had changed his opinion, and preferred the prohibi tion to the duty, he had had an opportunity of stating his reasons for the preference, and he did not think it necessary to follow the - example of the Hon. Gentleman, by repeating the same speech , five or six times over--(Loud laughing, and cr ies of hear, hear !) .He had never insinuated any thing but respect for those petitioners who had sent up their parchments to the House ; nor had he thought proper even to differ from their con clusions. But he would not he deterred from considering their reasonings as fallacious ; and he would say to those worthy Magistrates of London, who were so uniform in their opinions on the sub ject, that it would become them to set open again the doors of their Egyptian Hall to the tens of thousands who had signed the Petition, and say to them, " You have been induced to approach ' Parliament on the authority of our 'statement, but we now find them to be unfounded, and let us therefore either get better information, or not petition Parliament at all." It was surprising that people did not see that lay the protecting price a preference was given td our own agri cu lt ur e over that of foreigners. Ll e -- Wished to see a 'liberal system of intercourse and commerce with France, but not to place our confidence so much on. France as to make our subsistence dependent upon her, or upon any other country, when we might most require it. He hoped - and believed that the peace between the two countries would be one of real amity and long continuance : but nothing was so likely to occasion an unsteadiness of price, in corn, as a dependance upon foreign ; supply, which we should not be 'able to command. It was very.improbable; that the crop would fail at one time in every part of the kingdom ; but if under the pressure of extraordinary circumstances a fo- reign. supply was required, it would be sought for, and he hoped we should find it. For the security of a steady supply. of corn this country was hap pily situated it would always be a station for the import and deposit of corn, as-well from the Con tinent as from America ; and the grain coming to seek aforeign matket,it would be applied to our use when it might be wanted : it would be drawn out of our warehouses long before the price should rise to the height of the prohibition, and thus we should always find a supply till other arrange ments were effected. It was an evil hour When, about forty years ago, .we departed from that sys tem under which this country had always found plenty ; arid he hoped that we should now return to that system, the advantages of which had been' so evident and so considerable.—(No-, no, from several voices.) Sir J. SHAW complained of the stigma xvhich the Right Hun. Gentleman had cast on the Magis trates of the City. Their statements had not been made loosely, lint on the .authority of persons bet ter acquainted with the Corn Trade than the ma jority of those who sat in that House. He would repeat that theie statements had been completely borne out., and' he much feared that "if the Bill passed, the result would confirm, his opinion. • Sir J. NEWrURT repeated many of his arguments i ' - • • :, ;ielieJ It.land \vas greatly unclertaxed, as held been as serted ; but, on the contrary, that she had been taxed, 'in Proportion to her ability, as much as this rottutry. Mr. STUART WoßTLkir Made a long Ipeeth in favour of the price of 80s. which did not appear, in his mind, notwithstanding all the declamation he had heard, calculated to 'raise the price of bread to an extravagant-degree beyond the relative price of all other articles. fie was alsd convinced that the result of the Bill would he to reduce rents in general. The certain effect would be a reduction in the price of Corn, and cause a reduction in the price of rents. fie was willing to vote for SOs. in order to give a re mune r at i ng pr i ce to •the-far mer. It was not necessary to wait ; for it had been agreed on all sides of 'the House that some thing was necessary to be done for'the relict of 'agriculture . yet the Petitions are not against any alterations in the price, but against all alteration whatever. lie thought 7Gs. would prove a fair remunerating price ; but the protecting price should be. something higher. Mr. WILLIAM Smlrit defended the conduct of his Hon. Friend (Mr. Baring) and added that he wished the reception of the Report to be post. poned till atter Easter, because Lie did not wish to• see the House pledged against the common senti ment of the Public. He thought the Petitions ought to grave due weight with the House', and he should not think so highly of the house as he was inclined to do, if they did not give them proper . attention. A division then took place on Mr. Baring's Amendment— Fol' it ... Against it • 206 Majority for the immediate reception of the Report.. 149 The SPEAKER then stated, that the House had now to agree to the particular Amendments adopt ed by the Committee. The first question would be, that the House do agree to the Amendment which fixed the price 80s. All persons who were in favour of a lower prohibitory price would of course negative this proposition. • Another division ensued,when there appeared-- For the price of 8OS. Against it 7B Majority 106 While strangers sere excluded, we understand diSeussion arose on the Resolutions for fixing the importation' price of Oats,. Barley, These were fimilly passed without a division. The Gal lery having been re-opened, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved, that the Bill should be read a third time on Fri day next, and then. engrossed. Mr. BARING objected • to so early a day being 'named for the third reading.' lie thought no im pOrtant measure had ever been so indecently hur ried through the House. The whole country was now in the progreSs •of expressing its sense of the measure, and time ought to be given to receive the Petitions which were now preparing to he presented to them. He moved as an amendment, that the third reading should be fixed for Friday fortnight—(A laugh, and a cry of '' Good Fri day.") The Hon. Gentleman. corrected himself, and named Friday se'nnight. Sir GILBERT HEATIICOTR supported the Amend ment.—The House then divided,' when the num bers were— For Mr. Baring's Amendment 46 Againmt it •.2 20 Majority in favour of the thi r d reading.). 174 being fixed for Friday THE RIOTS. When strangers were re-admitted, Mr. WES TERN was strongly insisting on the propriety of calling out the military, when the civil power was not sufficiently strong to repress the multi tude out of doors, who Avished to influence the pro- . ceedings of that House by their violence. Lord CASTLEREAGH thought _what the Hon. Gentleman bad - just uttered must be in unison - with the feelings of every man in that House; and . with those of everyman ou t o f i t who kneiv'' ho w to value the British Constitution, and the blessings which he enjoyed in this free and happy . cotintry. (Hear, hear !)—lf the Legislators of -Great Bri tain might not debate on . those measures which to them it should appear demanded their consi-- deration, without being threatened in their per sons and injured in their property, the liberties of Englishmen were gone. (Hear, hear !) And if the persons concerned in the tumults out of doors thought their Representatives in Parliament so lost to themselves, and forgetftil of their duty to the community, as to suffer these disgraceful riots to have any influence on their conduct. (Hear, hear !)—lf they thought their outrages would in cline them to the smallest relaxation, (Hear, hear !) they little knew what those who sat in that-House felt they owed to their own character, and to the interests of those who sent them. there. (Hear, bear !)—He hoped by their conduct that night, they would teach the ignorant and infatuated per _sons (for such he trusted they were) with whom these disorders originated that theyknew their duty, and were not to be deterred from performing it by claMour nor by outrage. He, however, desired that that which had occurred should not be ex aggerated. Some houses had certainly been at tacked ; and this, in a city so large as London, might be easily effected by a few wickedlmen, pro ceeding from one place to another, but it was right to state, the Metropolis generally had not been thrown into a state _of clamour or disaffec tion. The Police had not been negligent, but no Police could prevent such attacks front being made in different parts of the town under circumstances like the present.• It would be false-Mercy not to take the most effectual isicans to check such out rages; the Hon. Gentleman might be assured, the Executive felt this to be their duty ; but a desire to forbear a s l ong as poss ibl e f rom proceeding to extremities, was, he was certain; that line . of conduct which would best secure the confidence of that House. (Ilear, hear !)—The Executive would firmly stand by the Legislature, and make every exertion the emergency of the case might demand to protect them, and with them the li berties of the People--(Hear'.) Mr. WHITBREAD said, that every man must al low that the proceedings of Parliament should not in any degree be influenced by • the menaces of rioters. In fact, such proceedings could have no effect upon their decision, except it was an - ,; . • •-f p; • (;;;p:It:i Li rii;ie Ile really believed that they had induced sowe Gentlemen to vote in favtiur Of tlte. measure, that would otherwise not have voted. He approved of what the Node Laird had said about lenity and forbear-al - tee,. -but he could not ,believe but. that there *as negligence in Some quarter or - another, which had allowed the tuniult to proceed to .such a length. He thought it evident that some per sons who ought to have taken timely measures to prevent those excesses, lutist have failed in their duty. It - was to the Secretary of State for the Home Department that the House and the Coun try principally looked . for 'protection in great and sudden emergencies. He wished that an Hon. Gentleman belonging to that department (Mr. li. Addington) would inform the House what measures - -of precaution had been taken. Mr. HILEY ADD:NGTON was proceeding to state in detail the different steps taken by that depart ment, when Sir C. BUIZRELL spoke to order. He thought that going into soch a detail might have the cf- Net of defeating what was the very object o f th ose measures. Mr. ‘STYNNE thought that the explanation could not be said to be disorderly, although it rested with the discretion of the Right Hon. Gentleman whe ther he thought it.prudent to proceed in such a statement. Mr. H. ADDINGTON said, that he was ready to go On, if the Ilonse thought proper—(Loud cries of no, no.) Seeing what was the sense of the House, he should only say, that if the question came forward in the shape of a regular motion, he would pledge himself to prove that every possible precaution had been taken. Mr. PaNSONBY agreed with the Noble Lord (Castlereagh) that Government was right in ordering the military and the police to use for bearance. There was no subject upon which the people were more naturally-anxious, or upon which it was easier for them to be misled. In a City of such iminense.extent, it was evidently impossible for police magistrates to be in every quarter. He trusted, that : if lenity were ineffectual, and seve rity becanurnecessary, it would not be resorted to until the necessity should be obviot+s to every man who regarded the laws, the constitution, and the peace of the country. Lord CASTES,IMAGFI observed,_ that since the first day ‘vhei, thediturbances took place, he had not beard of 'any Members being insulted or mo lested in their entrance to' that House. Mr. WHITBREAD could not avoid considering that thertlinnl'heen-some negligence in the begin ning, for' whiCh those; who were culpabledeserved, at least, a reprimand. He thought that if any se verity should hereafter become necessary, it was in a great degree owing to negligence and remiss-. ricss in the first instance. Mr. Youxe thought it quite nugatory to talk of the police of London, or any police that could be sufficient to oppose such tumults. If the Go vernment and Parliament neglected to. take proper measures to repress them, it would be quite idle and ridiculous to continue talking in th House about the rights and liberties of Englishmen, at a time thatno man was sal,: in his own house. It such proceedings were allowed to continue, there could be no Government or Parliament in the country, unless the Parliament was withdrawn front, the metropolis, and suurmoned -to meet in some other city or town in the kingdom. He trusted, however, that those disgraceful scenes would be soon terminated. .. Mr. Alderrian ATKINS agreed, that the first ob ject of the House - ought to be to provide measures for the repression of the popular tumults. It was his opinion ,that his Majesty's Ministers -would do well to suspend the progress of the preient Bill, in ordeliS - bOng in one that night, for the better preservation of the peace in Palace-yard—(Laugh.) Mr. ETCAtlisoN could not avoid taking the pre sent opportunity of declaring in the strongest manner, that the danger now threatening the me tropolis had.. arisen out-of the .imputation of mo tives in which some":of the Gentleman opposite had so liberally indulged. The SPAAKER here interposed, and considered the reflection of, the Right Honourable Member as transgressit4g; the bounds of Parliamentary license. Mr. 1.34.14.LX.0 - rose to explain, and was inter rupted 1 - 41/Mr: fitzgerald, who rcinceived that if any further‘couversation was to be allowed, time and indulgence should be afforeied to an unfinished speech. Mr. TIERNEY thought that his Hon. Friend (Mr. Baring) had a peculiar right to be heard, after the point contained in the observations of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Huskisson). The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER and Mr. FITZGERALD spoke to order. The SPEAKER observed, that he had interrupt ed Mr. Huskisson, because lie apprehended he WAS' exceeding the usual limitsof Debate; but in the prcsent_state'of the question, the most desirable course to be pursued was, perhaps, for Mr. Iluskis son to continue, and .Mr. Baring to answer fully. Mr. liusxxssoN would not depart from his pre expressed opinion; that there was no foundation whatever for the present alarm, except in the ani madversions trade in that House. Mr. limitNo had his duty to perform as a Mem ber of Parliament, and he hoped he was now per forming it as conscientiously as the Right Hon, Gentleman. - • With this consciousness, he felt it rather hard that the attack upon and destruction of houses should be considered as his crimes. He hoped he was in - a House where free discussion was not to be overawed. All he had attempted to impress on the House was to avoid precipita tion, and not to allow itself to he led out of the line of its duty by such, considerations. He had only now to • add, that it was his determiha tion to continue his Opposition to the measure to the last.--(Hear, hear !)` MUTINY BILL. On receiving the Report. of. the: Mutiny Bill, Sir S. RO. MILAN moved a - clause, prohibiting Courts• Martial from ad judging a prisoner to more than 100 lashes. The';YUDGE ADVOCATE opposed the Amendment as un• necessary : and stated various proofs of the amelioration in the discipline-Of 'our troops. Mr. WHITBREAD alluded to the power i'ested in the. frown, of transferring Officers to other regiments, without their leave, and observed that the same power was, nut ap- plicable to private soldiers. The JUDGE ADVOCATE was not aware that any case had occurred which actually calledthe prerogative questioned by the Hon. Gentleman to issue. After some farther conversation, the Report was received, awl Sir S i .Romilly's Clause withdrawn.-....-Adinor,l