The Sun. — London, England, 1849-02-21 00:00:00

vtirti 92bition SUN OFFICE, Seven o' Clock. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT• (THIS DAY.) HOUSE OF COMMONS. The SPEAKER took the Chair at Two o'clock. SECOND READINGS. The following Bills were read a second time: — Black Sluice Drainage Acts Amendment (Amend ment of Acts, Extension of Time for Completion of Works, Powers to levy and raise further Rates and Moneys, to alter existing Rates and Tolls, and for other purposes). Shrewsbury and Chester Railway (for Branches to the river Dee, ag ree nent for Joint Station at Shrewsbury, power to subsorioe towsrds the Shrewsbury and Here ford Railway). EAST IN DIAN RAILWAY BILL COMPANY INCOR PORATION . Mr.AGLIONBY moved the second reading of this Bill, and intimated that the prsomoters or the Bill would not proceed with it if they found it inexpedient to carry out its provisions, and that any portions of the Bill which might be deemed objectionable by the Government would be a:ruck out in its future stage. Sir J. C. 110BHOUSE said, under the circum rtances stated by the Honourable Member, he should not eject to the second reading of the Bill. If he under stood the lion. Gentleman rightly, the promoters of the Bill intended to strike out all those provisions which it was better to have arranged by charter instead of an Act. If the Bill had stood as originally proposed, he should have felt it his duty, on the part of the Government, to have offered it his opposition, but as the provisions would be altered in accordance with the wishes of the Government, he should not offer it any opposition. The land through which the line would pass was vested in the East India Company, who were disposed to make a grant of it by charter to the Company. The Bill was then read a second time. THE NAVIGATION-LAWS. Mr. JOHN O'BRIEN presented a petition from the Chamber of Commerce of Limerick against the repeal of the navigation-laws. THE IRISH POOR-LAW. The Hos. MEMBER also presented a petition from the city of Limerick, praying for an amendment in the poor jaw, and that all income arising out of land, whether by mortgage, annuity, or jointure, also property in the funds, be rated equally with the rents of lands and houses in aid of the poor-law assessment. SECEDING CLERGYMEN. Mr. L. HEY WORTH presented a petition from !a place in Lancashire, praying for an alteration in the law affecting clergymen seceding from the Esta blished Church. THE REV. MR. SHORE. Mr. CAYLEY presented a petition from a place in Yorkshire, calling the attention of the House to the case of the Bishop of Exeter and the Rev. Mr. Shore, and praying for an alteration in the existing laws effect ing clergymen seceding from the Established Church. AREA OF TAXATION. Mr. lIAWES presented a petition from Kinsale, praying that the area of taxation tur the purposes of the poor-law may not be redived. CASE OF Ttili REV. MR. SHORE. Mr. COWPER presented a petition from Hertford calling the attention of the House to the case of the Rev. Mr. Shore, and praying that religious liberty may be extended to clergymen seceding from the Established Church. TAXATION. Mr. HUME presented a petition from Leith, signed by a vast number of the inhabitants, praying that all useless offices under Government may be abolished, and that in the present state of the revenue no more taxation may be levied than is requisite to support the really useful establishments of the country. THE GAME-LAWS. _ _ Mr. COWAN presented a petition adopted at a meet ing of certain of the citizens of Edinburgh, calling them selves the National Anti-Game-law Association, pray ing for the total and unconditional repeal of the laws relating to game. THE IRISH POOR-LAW. Sir W. SOMERVILLE presented a petition from the board of guardians of Dungarvon, praying for certain alterations in the poor-law. MINISTERS' MONEY IN IRELAND. The iiON7BARONET also presented a petition from Drogheda, praying for the abolition of ministers' money in Ireland ; and also a petition from the same city praying that no toll-gates may be erected in certain localities of the town. INTERNATIONAL ENGLISH AND FRENCH ASSOCIATION• Mr. B. COCHRANE gave notice that to-morrow he would put a question to the Hon. Member for Tewkes- bury—to the Hon. Member for the Tower Hamlets—to the Hon. Mesubfr for Pontefract, to the Hon. Member for Macclesfield, and to the Hon. Member for South ampton, respecting au International English and French Association. THE COAST OF AFRICA. Mr. HUME gave notice that to-morrow he would ask the Nobie Lord, the Secretary tor Foreign Affairs, in what state the negotiations with the French Government are with respect to keeping a squadron on the coast of Africa. BRIBERY AT ELECTIONS. Sir JOHN I'AKINGTON, in rising to move the second reading of the Bribery at Elections Bill, said it was necessary for him to make some statement of the views which he entertained upon the subject to which the measure had reference. He could assure the House that he was fully aware of the importance of ihe subject, but he was no less sensible that after the notorious corruption which prevailed during the general elections of 1841 and 1842, the subject assumed a new degree of most pressing importance. If the House would be kind enough to grant him its attention, he would be enabled to show that the present law against bribery was quite insufficient for the object which it ought to accomplish. He was desirous to solicit the attew , on of the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell), who had given his praiseworthy attention to tLe subject and un derstood it so well, and he begged to assure him that he did not desire to undervalue or depreciate his exertions. The Noble Lord had introduced two valuable Acts against bribery, one in 1841, and another in 1842, but they had proved altogether insuf ficient. He did not mean to say that the present law was not severe, but he wished to show to the House that a great deal of it was quite inoperative, a nd o the reason that under it punishment for bribery was actually dependent upon the presentation of election petitions—(Hear)—and wherever extensive bribery prevailed there were such powerful combina tions thy. t pariit s were deterred irom presenting them. lie wotli briefly call attention to the existing law against bribery and corruption. Towards the end of the reign of Charles IL and James 11. attempts were made to legislate on the subject, and in the 7th year of the reign of William 111. an Act was passed which was known us the Treating Act, under which the present system of Election Committees originated. An other Act was passed in the 2d of George 11., which was known by the name of the Bribery Act, and was very stringent in its provisions, but it was virtually a dead letter upon the statute-be o'r. To those two Acts they had mainly deinaded uotil 1841, when the Noble Lord brought in one of the two Acts to which he had referred, and which gave Committees power to take evidence of bribery before agency was proved. The other Act was introduced in 1842, and it was di. rented particularly to compromises. Bat both those Acts, however good in themselves, did not cominto op erat i on un l ess a pet i t i on was presente d to Par e hament. At the present moment there was a Bill pending in another place on the subject, and the same deft cts that he had pointed out existed in that Bill which were in the measure that had been introduced last year, namely that of appointing a Commission which bad proved itself totally inefficient to put down bribery and corruption. The Hon. Baronet then proceeded to detail at some length what had taken place in different boroughs with respect to bribery and cor ru p t ion, and putted that in many instances in those boroughs niche early part of the day 151. to 201. were given for a vote, and at the later period of the d a y no t less than 100/.—(Hear.) He asked the House whether such a state of things ought to continue, and whether he had not made out a case for the measure he e as now proposing :Hear, hear.) It had b een said that wholesale disfranchisement was the only remedy for this disease, he could not agree with any such pro position • it had been tr ied, and it had been , shown that it had not acted as a warning to those who had been guilty of bribery. It was for these reasons that he had ventured to propose that no man should take his sea; in that House without making a public declaration at that table, before the House of Commons and the country, that so far as he Was concerned he was personally guiltless of all these corrupt practices. He was aware that this decla ration might be considered only as a trap tor tender consciences. He trusted no Hon. Member would vote against his Bill on that ground. It any doubt was en tertained upon the subject, then let them look to the declaration itself, and then they would see that no such danger was likely to arise. He was aware that the subject was surrounded by many difficulties, but he thought that some such rule ought to be adopted, even if it were only for the protection of the candidates themselves.—(Haas, hear.) Conceiving this, and believing that the malpractices to which he had al luded had brought a greet scandal upon the country, he felt deeply impressed with the necessity of adopting some such plan, and he should, therefore, only now propose that, in addition to the declaration in the House, there should also be a right, vested in the electors themselves, to demand from the candidates on the hustings a similar dec lar ation,so that when men of respectability and standing went down to any place, they should find it prudent be toabstain from bribery altogether, lest they should placed f in the position either of acknowledging their guilt, o b r y odl r zju e ri r ng t s h t e h m a - t elves.—(Heer.) lie had been tol the only remedy against bribery was an extension pson of the franchise. For his own part h e was i n no degree op posed t ( ) a n extension ot the fra nc hi se, but until he saw that what his lion. Friend, the Member for Buck inghamshire, the other evening very happily termed a proper sense of t h e dignity of exercising th e f ranchise, he could anticipate but little benefit from any ext ens i on of the franchise. This appeared to him the m ore important, inasmuch as he could not forget that no constituency had been formerly more distinguished . f or their corruption than the tw o large ones of Nottingham and Norwich.—(Hear, bear.) Yet he would wish it to be understood that he was by n o means unfriendly to an extension of the franchise, soon 35 it could be shown to him that it might be safelrconfided to more numerous bands. Lle;appealed to the House not to reject this Bill; but, at all events, if they did so he should have the satisfaction of knowing that he had made a single-minded attempt to check what he believed to be a great growing and increasing evil, which was sapping the very foundation of our representative system, which had been the boast of England and the admiration of the world. They were justly proud of the purity of public men. Colonel SIBTHORP—Oh, oh . ! Nonsense, ridiculous. Sir J. PAKINGTON proceeded—But let him warn the House that if they valued the purity of public men in public offices they might endanger that purity if they did not maintain an equal degree of purity amon g st the constituent body.—(Hear, hear.) Now he as k e d the House to give this Bill a second reading. He did not hold out to them that this was a measure by which bribery would be prevented in all cases, but if they adopted the principle of the Bill it would put an end to all those gross and wholesale cases to which he had to-day di rected attention, and he did hope that the House would pass some legislative measure upon the subject. They were bound to make an effort to remedy the existing evils, and it was to give the House an opportunity of making that effort that ho moved the second reading of the Bill. Colonel SIBTHORP said, when he gave notice of his intention to move that this Bill be read a second time this day six months, of course, he was not led to expect, but certainly, he did not know that the Hon. Baronet proposed that the Bill should be referred to the consideration of a Select Committe.—(Hear, hear.) Ile now knew what the Hon. Baronet's intention was, and as he had no objection to the course the Hon. Baronet proposed he should abstain from moving his amendment, but certainly not from saying a few words upon the sub ject.—(Hear, and laughter.) If he entertained objec tions to the Bill when he gave notice of his amendment, they had been increased ten-fold by the speech which the Hon. Baronet bad made in support of it. Where the Honourable Baronet obtained his information from he could not for the life of him make out. He presumed it was not from Droitwitch, nor could he believe that the Hon. Baronet had given the informa tion upon the ipse dixit of individuals. It appeared rather to be the result of some secret inquiry, and he should always oppose a Bill which was based upon in formation derived from secret sources.—(Hear, hear.) The lion. Baronet then talked about the purity of public men. Good God ! the purity of public men, where was it?—what. was it?—(Hear and laughter.) He had, always thought and now boldly declared that the Trea sury bench was the seat where, above all others, the grossest corruption prevailed.—(Laughter.) But he had heard with infinite satisfaction that the Honourable Member for Hull, who now occupied a seat on the bench, had refused to take office if be were not permitted to pursue w hat course he thought proper in reference to the navigation-laws, and they had received an intimation from the Noble Lord at the head of the Government — the Member for the city of London, which was all purity—(Laughter)—that he bad absolved the Right Hon. Gentleman from voting against the repeal of the navigation-laws, but the Noble Lord did not give him liberty to vote as he liked upon every other question. No, the Noble Lord was too cautious for that. He said the navigation-laws was an open question, but ques tions might be open out of doors but not in the House. An open question out of doors was a very different thing to what was considered an open question in Downing-street.—(Hear, hear.) The purity of public men, indeed ! Faugh ! Stuff ! It was mere moon shine.—(Hear, and laughter.) It was impossible for them to be pure. Bribery and corruption was part of their system, and their impunity was as noto rious as the sun at noon day.—(Hear, and laughter.) He could not help thinking that the Hon. Baronet who introduced the Bill would have done much better had he delayed the second reading of the Bill until the House had seen the information which the Hon. Baronet said he had read. Besides, there was a Bill coming from another place, and he should like to know before they disposed of this one what that Bill would be. A Bill was also introduced last session into the House upon the subject, to which great attention was paid, and which incurred a great amount of expense—a waste of time, printing, and paper—and yet it all ended in smoke.—(Hear, and laughter.) And then the Noble Lord followed it up with another Bill, which he managed to get through the House ; but when it got up to another place, the other place wanted to shut up them selves, and they kicked out the Bill.—(Cheers and laughter.) But now it seemed another Bill was rising in the other place out of the ashes of the Bill they had knocked on the head last session. Now he would not say anything against the other place, but he always understood that the House looked with eyes of jealousy upon intermeddling of the other place ; but, be that as it might, he for one did not like this interference of the other place. Why did they not mind their own business? But it might be possible that there was not too much purity in the other place, although it contained a mitre.— (Hear.) What had bishops and priests to do with this question? What had Christian members of the Church to do with it? Why, nothing at all; and he hoped they would (though he hardly expected it) abstain from voting on the resuscitated Bill. If this Bill were passed it would destroy that good feel , ing which had so long existed between the higher and the lower classes, and it was well known what care the wealthier classes bestowed upon their humble dependents.—(Hear, hear.) If, however, there was to be a searching inquiry into all their acts—if secret machinations were to exist, no man would be safe. Bribery and corruption had existed, and, doubtless, would exist. He hoped at least, however, that he had never been guilty of any such acts ; he was, therefore, altogether free from the charge, but if eight or inine Bills had been introduced since 1841, for the purpose of altering the present state of things, and yet had proved inoperative for that pur pose, he should like to know what chance the present measure stood of success. He hoped the Bill would be rejected, because ho believed that every man ought to do what he liked with his own.—(Laughter.) At least allowing a man that permission was but carrying out the much vaunted principle of free trade ; but he supposed a free trader (a hair of whose head he would not hurt) could not bribe; it was quite impossible; he was too pure a being to do so.—(Laughter.) He believed the 13111 to be absurd, to be full of equivocations, and that it would prevent the purest and most honourable men from coming to the House and conscientiously taking the usual oaths. Nevertheless, as the Honourable Baronet had consented to have the matter re ferred to a Committee up stairs ho should not oppose the Bill in its present stage not wishing to thwart fair investigatiQn, lie trusted, however, when it came down again, if it came down at all—(Laughter)—that it would do so in a far different shape. He saw no reason why they should pass a Bill of this character, because Mr. Tompkins or Mr. Jenkins was dissatisfied with the result. It was an attempt to catch them sleeping, and he advised the House to take care that its silver spoons were not stolen.—(Laughter.) Sir J. HANMER said it was perfectly true that former attempts had been made, as had been stated by the Hon. and Gallant Member who had just resumed his seat, to suppress the corrupt practices which had been so long carried on at elections. He hoped, however, that the present attempt of the Hon. Baronet the Member for Droitwich (Sir J. Pakington), though he (SirJ. Hanmer) was not able to give his support to all its provisions.vvould be successful. lie was glad he had expressed his readiness to refer this Bill to a Select Committee up stairs, and trusted, through the searching investigation and practicaLsuggestions of that body, that the House would be enabled to pass a mea sure to put an end to those evils which threatened, unless at once checked or restrained, to sap the foundations of Parliament itself. It was true that, heretofore, the attempt of unofficial Members to stop the evil had proved abortive, but he assured the House that unless a remedy wag devised without delay that the day of vengeance was at hand. After the vast quantity of evidence that had been collected on oath, he confessed that he was at a loss to understand why a Bill of this kind should have to encouunter so many difficulties. As the Committee was to take into its consideration the subject of treating, the motion of the Hon. Baronet should have his support. The Gallant Member had 'said, that if the Bill were passed, no one would be safe. Had be been in his place he should have asked him if any one was safe at the present moment. No one, in his opinion, would be safe until the law with respect to bribery and treating, and their punishment, was placed on an intelligible footing. The difference between treating and bribery was by no means clearly defined—(Hear, hear)—and a va riety of opinions existed on the subject. He need not go any further back than last session to find instances of this difference of opinion. No less than three dis crepancies of opinion occurred last session en the subject Carlisle,oe by was air.hi of treatin g . Hodgson, w h o h a d b een e l ec t e d for unseated because treating had been carried was easgtehnetso, thought t u h t e w h ith d out his h knowledge and consent. I t the seat ag a i n; h e did so and g was aelected,arig antdton ocodoubt t sat in that House with great advantage to the city. The other cases were North Cheshire and Horsham. Mr. Cornwall Legh, who had been elected for South Cheshire, and Mr. Fitzgerald, who h a d been elected for Horsham, were unseated for treating by th though they declared th e y had nothingi toirdoagentsi; it, and that they, therefore, were not reponsivtbile. The Committee said an action at law could not be main tained against Mr. Cornwall Legh, and therefore he was most rightly permitted to retain his seat. The very same question occurred at Horsham, where all the elements went to show that Mr. Fitzgerald did the very same thing when he stood in 1847. The Committee declared there that he was not duly elected, and net capable of sitting. Therefore, on the very same question having been referred to a Committee in room A, concerning the North Cheshire election, a gentleman was now sitting a Member of the House, and on the very same question being referred to a Committee in room B, a gentleman was not sitting a Member of the House; and ho was, he (Sir J. Hanmer) believed, incapable of sitting again in the present Parliament. Surely it was time fur the House to define what was the law, or what ought to be the law. There was another, though an incidental, question arose in the Horsham Committee. They not only decided that Mr. Fitzgerald, who had the majority of votes, should be deprived of his seat, and was incapable of sitting, because at a previous election [some treating had been carried on against his instructions and without his knowledge, but the Com mittee decided that another Noble Lord, who had the minority of votes, was duly elected. Now that question arose incidentally, but it was a very important question, and ho hoped that if the Bill of the Nodle Lord was to be referred to a Com mittee up stairs, the terms of reference would not be small the that decisionsin which existing and narrow, and that the e ases decisions of Committees of the House conflicted with the courts and oft would the be H Committee, in o s u u s b e mitt m ed igh to t arrive at a state of things such as the Hon. Member for Lincoln aa muc h desiderated, viz.—when the country would get a good, plain, and in telligible law on the subject of bribery. He had fault to find with other parts of this Bill. On account of the very great and pressing importance of the subject, and be cause he was well aware that the attention of the country was directed to this great and crying evil, and that the House ought not and should not be content with the present state of the law, he did hope that the Bill would be referred to a Committee, and that gentlemen would not be too anxious to find fault, but would say hero was a great evil, here was a Bill that proposed to amend that evil, and let them take it into their whole consideration. Bu,t at all events, only for God's sake let us have a Bill in the present session, by means of which the election of members to an important branch of the Legislature might be pure and satisfactory. Lord MAHON thought that the course which the Honourable Baronet had taken in referring this Bill to a Committee up stairs was most pro per, though he (Lord Mahon) thought there were difficulties and doubts connected with the Bill which he was anxious to suggest, not in a spirit of hostility, but with a view to amendment. At the third clause he found it proposed, that any Member who should, by a report of a Committee of the House of Commons, be declared to have been guilty of bribery shall be for ever hereafter incapable to be elected a Member of Parliament. Now he wished the House to consider how dangerous was such an enactment. Let the House just consider how it would have operated in former years, when the great party leaders were in array against each other, when the exclusion of one of those great party leaders would have been considered an object to one of she opposite parties. Let them take the case of Pitt and Fox. Would it have been right for this House to put it into the power of any five of its Members to declare that any of those great party leaders were incapable of ever again hereafter sitting in Parliament? Let the House consider what a temptation they held out to party spirit; and let it consider this case, not in reference to the present moment, but in reference to those periods of great political excitement. By the second clause it was enacted, that any person whom a Com mittee of the House of Commons should declare to have been guilty of receiving a bribe shall forfeit his right of voting. He (Lord Mahon) was a member of the Committee which sat on the Borough of La❑caster Election Petition. It was proved on the clearest evi dence that several ♦oters had received bribes, and the Committee :were in the painful position, that the writ had to issue and the election be determined by the very persons whom the Committee had to report to the House as having been guilty of bribery.—(Hear, hear.) There, again, as in the former case, there might be a danger of party spirit intervening. With respect to the gene ral subject of declarations, it was one on which he wished to reserve his opinion. The Noble Lord con cluded by saying he would have the greatest satisfaction in vctiog for the second reading of the Bill, and for referring it to a Committee. Mr. AGLIONBY would vote for the second reading of the Bill, but he was afraid that, like all that had preceded it on the subject, it would be found to be inefficacious. The only proper course to pursue was to disfranchise the ancient freemen and enfranchise them as householders.—(Hear, hear.) Give them vote by ballot, and then matters would be put upon a proper and sound footing. The matter should be met boldly, and the country would be with them. Sir G. GREY gave great credit to the Right Hon. Bart. the Member for Droitwich for the motives that had induced him to bring forward the measure, and he should be exceedingly sorry to throw any objections in the way of such a measure; but beforelhe consented to the second reading of the Bill, ho felt bound to make some observations upon it. If the House agreed to the appointment of the Select Committee it would, as he understood, be assenting to its principle. The question was, with respect to this measure, whether it was desirable on the one hand to repeal the existing law, and whether the House was at the same time entitled to impose on Members of Parliament before they took li their seats the necessity of taking an oath or making a declaration couched in the same terms as the bribery oath, which he considered would tend more to the com mission of perjury than to the suppression of bribery.— (Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member said there were three main points in the Bill; first, the declaration imposed upon candidates before they took their seats that they had not been guilty of bribery; secondly, the disqualification for ever of a Member to sit in the House who had been found guilty of bribery by a court of law, or by a Committee of the House of Commons; and third, the repeal of the Bribery Act. With regard to the first point, be had heard nothing to convince him thatit was necessary to impose such a declaration. It would not prevent the commission of bribery at elections, and would have the effect of shutting out some of the most honest and best Members from taking a seat in that House. The Ron. Member said if the House assented to the prin ciple of the oath or declaration by Members, he was willing to amend it in the Committee up stairs; there fore he (Sir George Grey) wished it to be understood that the declaration was open to serious objections, and that he was not prepared to sanction it. With respect to the second point he enter tained the same serious objections, and thought it a most dangerous thing to impose a penalty which would disqualify Members for ever sitting in the House again, however desirous constituents might be that they should represent them.—(Hear, hear.) He had no objec tion to the clause which altered the present law on the subject of bribery, and therefore that would not meet with his opposition. He entertained a great objection to the perpetual disqualification of elec tors. he would he sorry to oppose the general wish of the House to refer to the Committee up stairs the Bill in question, but he should be happy to aid in introducing some more effectual check to the commission of bribery, and ho thought it his duty at present t warn the House against sanctioning the mai❑ principles of the Bill. Mr. G. J. TURNER said he could not agree to the sending of this Bill to a Committee up stairs. He would just point out to the House with what ease this declaration might be avuided. Why, a scrupulous man would to his agent and inquire whether any bribery had been practised before he made any declaration, whereas the unscrupulous man would make no inquiry at all. If the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for the Home Department divided the House, he should most certainly divide with him.— (Hear. hear.) Mr. COCKBURN conceived that this Bill contained so much ;that was good that it ought to go through a recond reading. Whether there was the extent of corruption and bribery at elections alleged,: or whether there was not, they had at least this assu rance, that it was an attempt, and a wise attempt, to stop an evil of very serious magnitude. Was not this worth the while of a Legislature to stay? Why, what was the ease which the Hon. Baronet the Member for Droitwich had adduced ? He had asserted that in a constituency amounting to three thousand every one voter in twenty-eie,,ht had been bribed to the amount of ten pounds. Surely, then, this was a matter which re quired the instant exertion of the authority of Parlia• ment to put down—(Hear.) By doing this they would be bringing the conventional usage into harmony with the strict rules of morality, and they would be doing away with a mischief which was fast sapping the root of all public virtue.—(Hear, hear.) By this declaration a Member of Parliament would voluntarily incur the risks of condemning himself, and thus expose himself to all the risks of ignominy and disgrace.—(Hear, hear.) Then, with regard to the penalties which the Bill pro posed to impose, he, for one, thought that they were by no means too severe. The Bill proposed to render the making of a false declaration an act of felony. —(Hear, hear.) Let them believe him that all their legislation had hitherto been in the wrong direction. They had only now begun at the right end. If they had hitherto attempted simply to bring the tempted to justice, surely it was but wisdom to endeavour also to place the tempter in the same predicament.—(Hear, hear.) It was useless to make laws for the object of abolishing an evil, the subjects of which had placed before them a sum which it was almost beyond the power of a poor man to resist, in accepting which, the gain was present and certain, while the pu• nishment for receiving it was at the least remote and very contingent.—(Hear, hear.) Let this declaration be made and the man who made it would have a right to separate himself from the evil thing, and take his part in investi gating the conduct of those by whom it had been com mitted.—(Hear.) They all remembered the severity of the inquiries of the Election Committees last year, and certainly he was not one who complained of that severity. All he wanted was a judge and jury, and when convic tion followed, he was prepared to permanently disqualify the person so convicted from ever sitting in Parlia ment. The recent decisions of Election Com mittees had entitled them to the respect of the House; but in times of strong party ex citement it was not unlikely they might be induced thereby to act in favour of the party to which they be longed. The House should, therefore, be very cautious how it extended the power at present possessed by Election Committees. He doubted not that this part of the Bill would be modified in the Select Com mittee. He trusted the Bill would receive the assent of the House.—(Cheers.) Mr. HENLEY said, if two Learned Members, like the Hon. and Learned Gentleman who had last spoken and the Hon. and Learned Member behind him (Mr. Aglionby) could not agree as to the terms of the de claration to be made by Members at the table on taking their seats, how could they expect nnlearned Members to make up theiri minds; - upon the matter?—(Hear, hear.) If the Committee, as he believed, was likely to disagree on the leading points of the Bill, he could not see what advantage could result from sending lt i hei t hiamed to .aecrt t ilos hem. The B i ll was so o bj ect i ona bl e t h at t h e f e o a l f ie t i F i r n o t g y or in th m i e g o might be Billyb parties toiunseatedesb eutuseless,t e utterly y inu unconnected consequencennhOUectel ddvote w i t o h f s against it. - Mr. HUME had had a good deal of experience of the inutility of these Bills, but he wanted the law to be simplified. Throw the responsibility and punishment on the really guilty party, and where they found an agent guilty of a dishonest act strike him off the rolls if he were on any, or disfrancise him if he were an elector.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. HEADLAMicouId not support the Bill, al though he was most anxious to put an end to the system of bribery and corruption which pre vailed at elections. It was a continuation of a vicious course of legislation on the snbject of bribery. It was unfair to compel a man to make a declaration at the hustings, so that he might afterwards be indicted for the crime of bribery, ;because that system involved a principle that was unknown to the common law of the land. The law wisely said that no man could legally criminate himself, and until the House established a different mode of putting down bribery the crime would never be abolished.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD cordially agreed with the principles of the Bill. He could not under stand upon what principle of equity or justice they re,- THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY ' EVENING, FEBRUARY 21, 1849, used to inflict upon the Member the severe oaths and declarations they imposed upon the elector, and he, for one, trusted that the Hon. Baronet would persevere in this measure.—(Hear,. hear.) Mr. FEARG-IjS O'CONSIOR thought the principle of the Bill was good. It assimilated the law of bribery to the law applicable to other crimes, and that was the only means by which they could purify the elective system of the country. The Hon. Baronet who introduced the Bill had made some allusion to the former corruption of Nottingham. No doubt Coventry was corrupt once, for when he put up for that borough at the last election a deputation of publicans waited upon him to know if he would pay the expenses of the former contest on behalf of Sir John Hobhouse. He was told that the arrears amounted to 20,0001., but as it was:his rule to pay nothing for his return, he refused to accede to the proposal, and of course incurred the direful hostility of the publicans. The Hon. Member for Coventry had warmly supported the freemen of this country, but the House must permit him to say that he had no confidence in the purity of that body, and he would tell them why. He re membered on one occasion, when he was addressing a crowd of electors from a waggon in the market. place, when he deprecated bribery and corruption during the coming election, 500 of the freemen came down in their flannel jackets, and asked him if he was going to destroy their freedom and their inheritance. Mr. HODGSON defended the constituency of Carlisle against any imputations of bribery. With respect to the principle of the measure it was a matter of indifference to him whether the Bill was read a second time or not, for he would forego the honour of a seat in that House rather than make a declaration such as was proposed to be taken by this Bill. He would, nevertheless, vote for the second reading of the Bill. Sir JOHN PAKINGTON spoke in reply to the arguments that had been adduced in the course of the debate. The principal observation he had to make upon the debate was, that it appeared to him was, that exceptf.ng those objections which had been made to the principle of Members being called on to make a declaratio❑ on this subject; the other objections appeared to him to partake of the nature of verbal criti cism rather than serious objections to the Bill. The Hon. Baronet then briefly reviewed the objections to his Bill, and concluded by stating that the main principle of the Bill was the security which such a declaration could give against bribery at elections, and called on the House to sanction the second reading of this Bill, re minding them that the eyes of the country were looking to them with some anxiety for a measure which would put an end to the corrupt practices at elections. Col. RAWDON begged to assure the House that, as I an officer in the army, he had received several commis sions in his life, and he was never asked to make a de- I cla ration, and he certainly never made one. He believed every other officer in the House would bear him out in that statement. The house then divided, when there appeared— For the second reading .•. 110 Against it • • "' 80 Majority ... The Bill was then read a second time. CONSOLIDATED FUND BILL. The Consolidated Fund (8.000,0001.) Bill passed through Committee, and the report A was ordered to be received to-morrow. _ LIGHTHOUSES. Mr. HUME moved for a copy of the report of Cap. tain Bayfield, R.N., on the necessity of erecting a light house on Cape Pine, Newfoundland, and statement of the measures that have been adopted by the Govern ment in consequence. A statement of the progress made in the erection of the lighthouue on the Island of Barbadoes for which the Assembly of Barbadoes has voted money, and for which, in the miscellaneous esti mates of last year, the House voted the sum of 2,0001. also, statement of what measures have been adopted respecting the erection, management, and superintend. ence of Lighthouses in the British Colonies and Pos sessions. Lord BERNARD complained that the want of !light houses in the north, western, and south-western coast of Ireland was the cause of many shipwrecks. After some observations from Mr. Duncan, Mr. Anstey, Mr. Herbert, ,and Lord John Russell, the mo tion was agreed to. UNION OF KENMARE. Mr. NAPIER postponed till to-morrow, the following motion of which he had given notice :—Copies of the accounts of the union of Kenmore, from the date of the last audit until the removal of the local guardians, to show the state of the accounts as between the several electoral divisions, and the actual debts of the union. Similar accounts from the removal of the local guardians to the present time. Entries in the ledger since M arc h, 1848. Registers of persons receiving indoor and out door relief, with their residences, as set forth in the register kept in the workhouse. Entries on th e re gister showing the number of paupers in the union work house, on the Ist of January in the present year. En tries in the clothing book of the workhouse, and pro vision account books for the year 1848. And all entries showing the state of the union during the year 1848. The House adjourned at Six o'clock. FRAN CE. During the sitting of the National Assembly yes terday, atter the discussion on the Electoral Law had M. Ledru Rollin ascended !the tribune, and begged leave to address a few questions to the Cabinet rela tive to the affairs of Italy. A grave fact, 11., said, had jr,st taken place in Italy. A Republic had been pro claimed at Rome, and the temporal power of the Popes was at an end. This was glorious intelligence for the friends of liberty.—(Loud murmurs. " No! no!' " Yes! yes !") M. Ledru :Rollin wondered at those interrup tions from a quarter (pointing to the Left) which had so enthusiastic:My joined in the cry of " Vice la _Repub lique."' Sinister rumours were in circulation which afflicted the hearts of the sincere republicans, at the same time that they caused a rise in the funds Various projects of inti rvention were on the tupis; but, if he was correctly informed. Piedmont was to invade Romagna, whilst Na. plea was to enter the Pontifical dominions on the other side. In the meantime, a French and English squadron would give moral support to the Sardinian and Neapo. litan armies, and another naval force would be stationed at Genoa to awe the Piedmontese patriots, who would naturally take arms. M. Drouyn de Lhuis, Minister for Foreign Affairs, said that M. Ledru Rollin had wondered at the mur murs of a portion of the Assemby, when he stated that the pro..lamation of the Republic at Rome was good news for the friends of liberty. No sympathy need exist between the French Republic and all the insurrections and revolutionary movements through out Europe. Before he cried Vice la .Republique, he shoud ask ask what republic was meant.—(Here a member exclaimed from the extremity of the hall, " You would prefer crying Vice le Roi Murmers.) "We knew our republic," added the minister, " we will defend it, but we must be allowEd to wait before we give our approbation to certain republics. As respected the intervention of Piedmont in Romagna, he would observe to M. Ledru Rollin, that Ro magna and Piedmont are not contiguous, and that they are separated by intervening States.—(Laughter.) The Pope possessed a double power, spiritual and temporal, and when he was obliged to quit his dominions all the Catholic Governments and others resolved to interfere in crder to restore to him the enjoyment of his double authority. France would not remain indifferent. Such was the opinion of the Go vernment, which had sought with the utmost solici tude to remedy the evil and re-establish peace in the Catholic Church. It had accordingly concurred in the plans suggested for the re - establishment of that peace and order. France could nct approve the Italian Con stituent. She would bide her time, and, if obliged to act, the Cabinet would first apply to the National As sembly. This was the only reply he could return M. Ledru Rollin. M. Ledru Rollin, who followed, endeavoured to draw a distinction between the temporal and spiritual power of the Pope, and maintained, amidst the indignation of a portion of the Assembly, that Pius IX., as a tem poral Sovereign, had forfeited all rights to the esteem and affection of his people. He then told the Cabinet that it was bound to prevent all intervention in Italy by the Constitution. the manifesto of the Provi sional Government, and the order of the day of the Na tional Assembly of the 24th of May, which had pro claimed the principles of the emancipation of Italy. M. Coquerel, a Protestant minister, rendered full justice to the Pope, and contended that if the French RF public restored him to the enjoyment of his temporal power it would be with his entire approbation. The un grateful Romans had not only banished the Pope—it had banished the first friend of Italian liberty. M. Poujoulat occupied the tribune at post hour. It was rumoured yesterday in Paris that Prince Schwartzenberg, the Austrian Minister for Foreign Affairs, had directed Baron Thorn, the Austrian Mini ster at Palis, to lay before the French Government a protest against the pretensions of the King of Sardinia. In this protest Prince Schwartzenberg claims, on the part of the Emperor of Austria, the full and complete securedpciss e s possession otno him o f the Lombard ti V b e f n l e B t in l o s. k T i nom, om , protest adds further, that inasmuch as the Austrian troops in Lombardy had been attacked without a shadow of jus tice by the King of Sardinia, and that victory has crowned the Austrian arms, the Emperor considers that he is entitled to be paid the expenses of the late war by Charles Albert. FIRE IN A COTTON-MILL. (From the Manchester Courier.) About twenty minutes past one o'clock this (Wed nesday) mor n i ng , a fire was discovered to have broken out in the coiton-mill of Mr. Charles Pooley, in Temple-street, Ch or lton-on-Medlock. The alarm was brought t o th e T o wn's -yard, in Clarence-street, by a policeman in a cab, when Mr. Rose was quickly on the spot with four engines and a body of the fire brigade. When first discovered, the flames were seen bursting out of the end window of the third story, at that end of the mill which abuts on the South Junction Railway, and they were confined to the blowing-rooms, which are situated immediately over the engine -house. When Mr. Rose arrived the fire had extended to the two upper rooms, and threatened the destruction of the whole mill, but by the judicious exertions of the firemen, the flames were very soon checked. Fortu nately a wall cut off the communication between these rooms and the rest of the mill, and when the flames reached the top story it was only to penetrate a cis tern on the roof, a rush of water from which mate rially assisted t o c h ec k th e ir further progress. Had not this been the case, the entire mill must have fallen a prey to th e d estruct i ve e l emen t, w h e n the l oss sus tained must have been a serious one, as the mill is a tolerably large one, being some 25 yards long, and five stories in height. How the fire originated it is dif ficult to say, as the mill was closed at eight o'clock on the precious evening, when all appeared to be quite safe. There is little doubt, however, that the fire must have been burning for a considerable time, from the progress which the flames had made when first noticed. As there was no private watchman employed on the pr( miser, it is possible that the fire may hav e been smouldering since the time the engine stopped. From all we could see and learn, we believe con siderable damage will be done to the engine -house, whilst the machinery in the blowing rooms will be totally destroyed. Owing to the brief time allowed us, we were unable to ascertain whether or not Mr. Pooley is insured, or what the damage may be estimated at. Superintendents Saynor and Taylor were both in attend ance, with a body of police, but so few people were pre sent their services were scarcely needed. LORD ALFORD. Talking of family matters, what a slice of good luck has at last befallen Lord Alford, the nephew of your Cheshire neighbour, Sir E. Cust, by the death of the wealthy and amazingly old Countess of Bridge water, whose heir the Noble Lord is by the terms of the will of the late eccentric Earl. What these terms are have been explained here on a former occasion when speaking of the Custs ; but as a good many errors are " going the rounds" in con nexion with the story of the inheritance, it may be as well to repeat our former particulars, with come few addi tions. John William Egerton, seventh Earl of Bridge water, Viscount Brackley, and Baron of Ellesmere (hus band of the Countess), died without issue in 1823, and on the death of his next brother, half-a-doa..n years after wards, all the titles became extinct, some of them, as you are aware, being lately revived in the person of the present Earl of Ellesmere, who, as second son to the late Marquis of Stafford (first Duke of Suther land), succeeded to his granduncle's, the last Duke of Bridgewater's, immense estates, and to that po r ti on of the famous Stafford Gallery which is about being con veyed to Bridgewater House, now building near St. James's Palace, and which pictures were valued at 150,0001. The Earl willed that on the death of the Countess (just deceased), his grandnephew, Lord Al ford, the Tory Member for Bedfoidshire, and son and heir to Earl Brownlow, should succeed to his great estates for five years, and if at the expiration of that period he had not advanced in the peerage beyond the degree of earl, then his next brother, Lord Charles Henry Cust, an officer in the Guards, married to the daughter of the Chief of Clanranald, is to succeed on precisely the same conditions, failing which, the head, whoever he may be at the time, of the Egertons of. Tatton succeed. Here, then, are the materials for a real modern romance of the peerage. Lord Alford is not much of a conjuror, at all events in the political world ; and bow is he to get the requisite marquisate or dukedom without the thing being a too palpable contrivance for securing the inheritance? It such be attempted, all eyes will be turned to it by the notoriety that attaches to the will ; and what Minister in these days will venture on any performance of the kind without being able to justify it, especially as there are at least two sets of individuals, Lord Charles H. Cust and his family and the Egertons, who have the deepest interest in see ing that the spirit as well as the letter of the will is complied with ; for of course the deceased Peer meant that his heir should earn the honour whose attainment is the condition of the retention of the property. However, here, no doubt, will come in the value of the Court favouritism of the Master of the Cere monies with his old employer, Leopold, the Queen's uncle, and the favouritism of Lady Charlotte Cust with the Queen's mother; so that if Lord Alford be the fa vourite nephew of the proprietor of Leasowe Castle, the chances are that the Crown will make a Marquis of him, irrespective of the Ministers of the day alto gether, before the five years are up. That there will be counterplotting and intriguing there can be small ques tion. The Brownlow family extend to three times the length of the O'Connell tail when it was at its fullest stretch. The late Earl had three wives, and three large families, almost every member of whom has also had numerous offspring, extending, in the three generations, to not far short of 200 individuals, without touching the cousins, at all. To suppose that all these, or the quarter of them (putting the multitudinous Egertons out of the question), will acquiesce in the propriety of Lord Alford being left in quiet possession of his good fortume,- would be to fancy a state of domestic bliss which the proprietor of the original " Happy Family " himself would declare to be purely ideal. Alford has al ready pretty well illustrated the futility of human calculations, for he is now not far short of forty ; arid every one expected he would have come into at least his five years' tenure on reaching his majority, by which time the Countess was passed seventy. However, he is quite young enough yet to turn mat• ters to account for himself and other people, amongst whom, it is to be presumed, will be his Cheshire uncle, to whom it would not be very respectful if he allowed him to receive a miserable 3001. a year, for going through an amount of Court ceremonial gymnastics which necessarily entail an annual three months' lumbago on any man attempting them who doesn't happen to be born with a gutta-percha backbone; and Sir Edward, to all external appearances, does not look as if he had a particularly flexible vertebrw—much to his inconveni ence at this present juncture, seeing all the levees and drawing-rooms, and other state pageants which her Ma jesty, it seems, is to institute this season, with a view to I give the tribe of Howell and James and the modistes of Belgravia a preliminary taste of California.—Corre spoudent of the Liverpool Albion. STATE 01"111tADE. MANcHEarEa, FEB. 20.—The diminished activity in cotton, together with some hittle giving way in its price, has rather cooled the excitement which our market recently caught from that of Liverpool, and manifested to the latter end of last week. But beyond this, and a slight moderating of ex cessive demands, as to prices, in some fevv articles, there cannot be said Co be any appearance of a retrograde move ment in yarns and goods. Sellers have lost little be aides a trifling excess of heat and animation; they con tinue firm, at the average quotations. Through these circumstances, however, aided by the accounts received this morning from the Unitcd States, which add to the previous estimates or the cotton crop, there has been an increased wariness on the part of merchants, and the business of the day has, consequently, been of limited amount. Goods have gone off rela tively better than yarns. ROCHDALE, FEB. 19.—We have had a very good demand again for flannels, and the manufacturers have been asking better prices for their goods, in order to meet the rise of the raw material. There has been rather more doing in the wool market, and purchasers have been obliged to give higher prices. HUDDERSFIELD, FEB. 20.—Every description of goods adapted for the forthcoming spring trade was bought up within two hours after the opening of the Cloth :Hall. There was a large attendance of buyers, and several lots of old patterns were purchased for shipping orders. Not much has been done in new wools. The great advance in price causes considerable circum spection amongst the manufacturers. HALIFAX, PEu. 17.—Both plain and fancy goods were very much in request in the Piece Hall to day, but not so many were disposed of as this day week. The merchants are unwilliug to give prices equal to the cur rates of yarn, and the manufacturers are reluctant to sell or to take orders, except at a corresponding advance. The spinners are still full of orders, and they hold oat stiffly for improved rates on all new orders. Another rise has taken place in wool, and considerable quantities are changing hands; but the spinners do not willingly accede to the advanced prices. LEEDS, FEB. 20.—Our market to-day has not pre sented any new features; business continues sound, and the improved tone holds good. There has been a good deal doing iu the warehouses these last few days; but at the Cloth Halls very little, for reasons often alluded to.—Manchester Guardian. SOCIAL EQUALITY.-11 there is much in the social development of America that strikes an European as different from that to which he has been accustomed, he should recollect that society, in the two hemispheres, rests upon very different bases. In the old world, where the feudal relations are still permitted so largely to in ,fluence the arrangement of the social system, society presents an agglomeration of distinct parts, each having its determinate relation to the rest, and the members of each having the range of their sympathies confined to their own particular sphere. European society, in its different manifestations, is constituted, as it were, of a series of different layers, which, though in close con tact, only partially Luse into each other. The conse quence is, that, although a common tie of mutual de pendence unites the whole, there is no common feeling pervading it, each class looking chiefly within itself for its sources of enjoyment and intellectual gratification, and recognising the others more as politics! necessities than as social adjuncts. The sympathies of one order touch, but do nut intertwine with those of another, each living within itself, as if it had no int eres t i n common with the others, and holding little intercourse with them. This distinctiveness of class is also accompanied with an inequality of position,. which exa ggerates t h e pre vailing exclusiveness, and fetters the general relations of society wiih a constraint and formalism, which renders one class, by turns, arrogant and awkward, and the other supercilious and condescending. Within each the social graces are more or less cultivated, and the refinements of lite more or less displayed; the constraint is visible at their line of contact, as mutual dislike is often found to pervade the borders of two civilized and amicable states. In its general aspect, therefore, the internal in tercourse of European society is less marked by kind ness than by formality, less regulated by sympathy than by rule. Very different from this are both the basis and the manifestation of society in America. There social inequality has never been a recognised principle, mould ing the social fabric into arbitrary forms and tyrannically influencing each other's position in the general scheme. Society in America started from the point to which society in Europe is only yet tending. The equality of man is, to this moment, its corner-stone. As often as it has exhibited any tendency to aberration, has it been brought back again to this intelligible and essential principle. American society, therefore, exhi bits itself in an indivisible whole, its general character istics being such as to mark each of the different classes into which European society is divided. That which developes itself with us as the sympathy of class, becomes in America the general sentiment of society. There is no man there whose position every other man does not understand; each has in himself the key to the feelings of his neighbour, and he measures his sympathies by his own. The absence of arbitrary inequalities banishes re straint from their mutual intercourse, whilst their mutual appreciation of each other's sentiments imparts a kind ness and cordiality to that intercourse, which in Europe are only to be found, and nut always there, within the circle of class.—The Western IVorld. CHESTER AND HOLYHEAD RAlLWAY.—Traffic for the week ended Feb. 11, 1849:—Coaching traffic, 7441. 10s. 2d. ; parcels, 481. 1 ls. 3d ; goods and cattle, 2801. 25. 3d.; steam•-bonh,ll2l. 53.4 d. Total, 1,1554 9E. IMPERIAL PARLIAMEN T. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Feb. 20. CROWN COLONIES. Mr. BAILLIE (in continuation from our Third Edition) said—The Governor thought fit to change his former resolution, and consent to the reduction, but a dispatch from the Colonial-office deprecated the measure, and refused to consent to a reduction of taxes. Now, what did that House suppose was the chief tax in Guiana? why it was a tax upon corn; and yet, although the Minister was so staunch an advo este of free-trade at home, he did not think it politic to ext en d th e principle to the colony of British Givana.—(Hear.) In that dispatch Lord Grey stated that the faith ot the colony was pledged to the Civil List, meaning, no doubt, that a certain agreement had been entered into between the Court of Guiana on the one hand, and the Colonial-office on the other, that the civil list should be voted for a certain period. The Noble Lord accused the colonists of breach of faith, and insisted on the civil list. " I'll have my bond ! I will not bear thee speak; I'll have my bond, and, therefbre, speak no more; I'll'not be made a soft and dull-ey'd fool, To shake the head, relent, and sigh, and yield To Christian intercessors. I'll have no speaking—l will have my bond." Such appeared to be the spirit in which the dispatch re ferred to was written. With respect to this agreement, he wished, however, to offer one or two remarks. It hoe been proved before the Committee en coffee and augur plantations last year, by so competent a witness as Mr. Barkly, since then appointed to be governor of the co lony, that that agreement had been obtained from the colony under false pretences and fraud. Mr. Barkly stated in his evidence, that the Colonial-office, anxious to raise the salary of the Governor, applied to the Court of Guiana to do so, but that. the Court refused unless the Colonial-office promised to issue an emigration oroinance, and that so soon as the civil list was obtained the Colo nial-office refused to issue the emigration ordinance. Such was the evidence of Mr. Barkly.—(Hear.) Was it not wonderful, then, that .a Minister of the Crown should charge a colony with a breach of faith, when the breach was manifestly on the side of the Colonial office? Were not the colonists perfectly justified in refusing to perform their part of the agreement, when the Colonial office had tailed to keep faith with them? But they did not do so. They appealed to the Colonial Secretary in forma pauperis, and told him that, reduced to such poverty, they were compelled to practise economy in the expenditure of the colony. The refusal of the Co lonial-office to accede to their wishes, under such cir cumstances, was wantonly cruel and ut,just. On receipt of the Noble Lord's dispatch, the Combined Court, per ceiving that the Colmnal Secretary had stated his wil lingness when any office became vacant to consent to a reduction of the salary attached to it, proceeded to reduce the salary of the Governor because a vacancy had oc curred. The acting Governor, however, opposed them, told them their duty was to vote the civil list, and that if they refused he had Lord Grey's instructions to adjourn the Court sine die.—(Hear, hear.) They did refuse, and the Court was so adjourned. The result had been most disastrous. Last year no supplies had been granted, and no money paid to public functionaries, the civil list excepted. To meet the demands on the civil list Lord Grey had secured a sum of money which had been deposited in the public treasury for the purpose of being applied by way of an emigration loan.—(Hear.) He would allude now to only one other act—the ap pointment of Mr. Barkly. He regretted that Mr. Barkly had sacrificed his consistency by accepting such an appointment. He could not but recollect that Mr. Barkly had opposed the Government measures relating to the colony in that House, and that he had appeared before the Committee of last year to justify the resist ance of the colonists to the Government. On that occa sion he stated that the colonists had been the victims of fraud and oppression, and yet he shortly afterwards was sent out to the colony as Governor, with the full salary of 5,0001. a year.—(Hear.) H e thought he had stated enough to justify him in bringing the question before the House.—(Hear, hear.) He had trespassed largely on the indulgence of the House, and had now merely to state that upon reflection he had thought it better not to include Mauritius in the proposed inquiry. He wished to confine the inquiry to the two colonies to which he had directed the attention of the House, first, because their complaints were the more urgent; and, secondly, because the more the inquiry was limited the more likely would an early practical conclusion be arrived at. And now he would ask the House whether they thought the colonies could long be governed under such a sys tem as the present—whether we could long continue to deprive the inhabitants of our colonies of all interference in the management of their own affairs? He was aware that the lion. Gentleman the Under Secretary had been most liberal in promises, both in his own and in Lord Grey's name, on this point, and that h e wou ld t el l the House that he had always expressed opinions favour able to colonial self-government. But that was just what the colonists complained of. They complained that both the Honourable Gentleman and the Noble Lord had expressed opinions in favour of self government utterly at variance with their acts.— (Hear, hear.) They say that they have no longer faith in the promises of the Colonial-office. How could they? How could they place confidence in a Minister who stood convicted of a deliberate attempt to deceive the House of Lords as to the state of the island of Jamaica by reading only a certain portion of a memorial addressed to him, to show that Jamaica was in so prosperous a condition as to afford an advantage ous field for the investment of capital, when he knew that the memorial bad been sent to him to show that the reverse was the case? A Minister who could so per vert the truth for party purposes could never enjoy the confidence of the colonies, and ought not longer to be intrusted with the highly-responsible duty of protecting the lives and fortunes of her Majesty's subjects in the colonies. Nothing but the unhappy divisions on that side of the House during the last Parliament could have prevented the whole Opposition uniting as one body to denounce the Minister guilty of such conduct and the Government of which he was a member. There was a point, however, beyond which endurance could not go—an occasion when the most effete and emasculated bodies would no longer quietly submit. That time had now arrived, and he hoped no tear of casting censure OH the Government would deter the majority ot that House from giving their support to a motion for that inquiry, which he now had to demand in the name of justice, in the name of the outraged British colonists, and of that constitution, under the shadow of which—even in the remotest parts—British subjects were accustomed to look for safety and protection, but from the advantages of which so many thousands of British colonists had long been so pertinaciously excluded.—(Cheers.) The Hon. Gentleman then proposed the motion. . . sir. HUME said that after the able speech of the Hon. Gentleman there was no necessity for him to occupy the attention of the House at any length in order to induce them to support the motion. At the close of the last session he had presented a petition from Ceylon, and had called the attention of the Government to the state of the island; but the Hon. Gentleman the Under- Secre tary for the Colonies told him that his statement was exaggerated. Before offering any opinion on this ques tion, he wished the House to understand that it was the system of colonial government that he found fault with, rather than with the conduct of this or that Colonial Secretary. It was impossible for one person, sitting in Downing-street, to superintend the administration of 43 colonies in different parts of the wide world. He must, however, say that every act of the present Colonial Secretary was a discredit to him, when contrasted with the opinions he had expressed while a Mem ber of that House.—(Hear, hear.) When the Noble Lord took office three years ago, he declared through the Under-Secretary for the Colonies, his desire to extend British institutions to all our colonies. Yet not one constitution had been granted, with the ex ception of that to New Zealand, which, however, the Noble Lord had been glad, almost immediately after it was granted, to abolish. Either the Noble Lord was sincere in the desire he had expressed or he was not. It sincere, then it would appear that he was without capa city to fulfil his wishes. He trusted an inquiry would be instituted which would show the evils of the system generally. With regard to Ceylon, so long ago as 1811 Lord Castlereagh entertained so high an opinion of the natives that he recommended the establishment of trial by jury and the appointment of natives to colonial situa tions. The result had been most beneficial, as might be seen from the evidence given before the Committee of 1832 on the state of Ceylon. Sir W. Gifford declared that the establishment of trial by jury had been completely successful, and had been productive of the best effects on the morals of the natives, whom he described as quiet and peaceably disposed. The same authority declared that as long as that system was pursued towards the colony her Majesty would not have a more loyal or peaceable one under her sway. But now, after 26 years of experience, what were the results which they found there P The Hon. Member who introduced that motion had detailed to the House a variety of instances of misgovernment which had brought the colony to the condition in which it ❑ow existed. He believed that it was the acts of Lord Torrington, since he came into power there, which had produced the present state of things. There was no case on record of a similar nature to such a one as that of having the pro perties of men, who were only absent from their homes, invaded and taken possession of by military authority. After what had been stated, and that upon good authority, no less than the authority of papers emanating from the Colonial-effice itself, it appeared to him that that Nobleman ought to be recalled before 24 hours had passed. It might be said that no blame ought to attach to Earl Grey or Lord Torrington until after the pro posed inquiry had been granted. Nuw, it was upon their own acts and statements that he conceived them censurable. With regard to Demerara, he believed there never was such an insult offered to a colony as the Noble Earl at the head of the Colonial-office had offered to that colony when it had applied for permission to re duce its establishments.—(Hear.) When the taxation of the colony amounted to one-third of the ♦alue of its entire exports, it was, surely, time to think of retrench ment. When an Act passed in 1836 which brought them into competition with other colonies, they had very prudently determined upon reducing their experniiure to the extent of twenty-five per cent., yet that proposal had been refused by Earl Grey.—(Hear, hear). It cer tain guarantee had been given for a civil list, but that had been under the impre,sion that protection was to be afforded to their produce. That protection had been withdrawn, yet they were called upon to maintain their civil list in its original state.—(Hear.) The colony had said that they would not refuse the supplies if allowed to make a general re duction of expenditure, and it was not until the Colo nial-cffice had refused this that they had come to the resolution of refusing the supplies. He could show, if ho were to refer to the case of the Mauritius, that a similar want of good government prevailed there. Let the British House of Commons come to the determina tion that the colonies ought to be left to govern them selves and pay their own expenses, and then they would 110 t be such a source of expense le England as their mismanagement now caused them to be.—(Hear, hear.) What was it that made the present order of things be continued and atniitained ? Why, nothing more or less than the patronage possessed by the Colonial office.—(Hear, heir.) He had moved last year for a list of all the offices in the Colonial Department, but it had not been furni,hed.—(Hear, hear.) But those who were crying out for financial reform in this coun try had no conception of the wholesale abuses which existed in our colonial department.—(Hear, hear.) He would tell them to take away the patronage from the Colonial-office, and give it to those who had to pay the salaries.--(Hear.) It was incumbent on them that such an inquiry as the present should be gone into, not against this man or that man, but against the prevailing system. —(Hear, hear.) It it were to be gone into, he conceived that Earl Grey and his Hon. Friend below him (Mr, Hewes), would do well to retire from the Colonial-office,, —(Heer, bear, and laughter.) He hoped it they offere their resignations her Majesty's Ministers would accept them.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) There had been in stances before of dispatches having been kept back.— (Hear, bear.) He did not think the proposed inquiry could be properly or satisfactorily carried out while the present authorities of the Celonial- office held their places, —(Hear, hear.) He concluded by seconding the motion of his Hen. Friend Opposite. The SPEAKER having put the question, Mr. RICARDO proposed, by way of amendment, to add these words to the motion:—" Whereby they may b., rendered more capable of meeting the difficulties of the treasitien from a system of protection to that of com petition in the British market with the produce of fo reign states to which Parliament has determined that they shall be exposed, in accordance with the general commercial policy which it has deliberately adopted." He said it would be presumption on his part lo take upon himself to reply to the heavy charges made against ihe Government, and that he must express his surprise that with so grave an accusation as the Honourable Gen tleman (Mr. Baillie) had made he should have concluded with so small a motion.—(Bear.) If the Colonial office had been guilty of half the high crimes and mis demeanours charged against them by the Honourable Gentleman, and insinuated against them by the Honour able Member for Montrose, then it would have been more fair in them, more worthy of the position they had taken up as the representatives of the colonies, to pro pose a direct vote of censure on the Right Honourable Secretary for the Colonies and his colleagues than to demand a mere inquiry into their conduct. —(Applause) But the Hon. Gentleman seemed to consider his motion as a direct vote of censure. .It might be so; and, as he (Mr. Ricardo) believed, it had a meaning different from the terms in which it had been expressed. He had, for that reason amongst others, given notice of his amend ment. It was his belief that the case of Ceylon had been selected as a peg to hang another inquiry upon; but he could not understand why the case of the alauritius and British Guiana had been mixed up with that of Ceylon, or what connexion existed between these three colonies. If there was a charge against the Government relative to Ceylon, why not bring it on by itself? Why intro duce British Guiana and the Mauritius, and then at the last moment w i t hd raw one of the charges advanced against the Colonial -office?—(Hear, hear.) He was also at a loss to understand what it was that Hon. Gen tlemen were complaining of. They had commenced by attacking the system pursued with reference to the co lonies, and then they had advanced charges against the Governor and the Colonial-office. He was not going to refer to the case of Ceylon.—(Laughter.) His belief was that, under the guise of a motion for inquiry into the administration of affairs at Ceylon and British Guiana, an attempt was now being made of a reactionary movement in favour of Protection.—(Oh, oh.) This was his case, and he would prove it. The whole at tempt with reference to British Guiana has been Made . in order to embarrass the Government by inducing com plaints to be advanced in and out of the House. Why, the fact was avowed. The great mover in this affair was the man who had acted as leader to the party who refused the supplies. That man's name was Peter. Rose, and he had declared to the Governor that it was hopeless to expect the supplies . while the colonists were unprotected against slave sugar.—(Hear, hear.) The Court of Policy had pro posed in 1848 that the civil list should be reduced 25 per cent., and the ground on which they made that proposal was, that, when the civil list was voted, they had pro• tection against slave-grown sugar, and that then, as they had not that protection, they would make the 25 per cent. reduction. They afterwards proposed that the estimates should be postponed altogether, until the re sult of the Committee, which was sitting in that House on the sugar and coffee question, had been ascertained. Now, this looked very like having a motive, that motive being to obtain protection; and, indeed, extracts from the papers of the colony showed that the supplies were refused, merely because they had been unable to obtain protection.—(Hear, hear.) The Honourable Member here referred to a meeting at which Rose presided, and at which the terms were read for granting the sup plies and he then proceeded to ob serve th at t h ere was no dispute about the long list of salaries to which the Hon. Member for Inverness,(Mr. Baillie) bad called the attention of the House. The dispute was about the civil list. The salaries were under the control of the com a . blued court, and if they chos e t o re d uce them 50 per cent. they might have done so without o biection.—(Hear, hear.) There was no doubt that the movement in Bri tish Guiana was made for protection, and that it wis not aimed against Lord Grey, but against a free trade, Parliament.—(Applause.) But the day s for obtaining..ik restoration of the principles of protection were passed ; and the pe:)ple of this country had pronounced that they , would no longer consent to have their industry taxed far the benefit of the colonies. He believed that Lord Grey. much to his honour, had dared to encounter much mis representation rather than flinch from those principles of commercial policy which he had supported in that House, when in opposition, a nd w hi c h h e ma i nta i ned i n the other House, now that, he was in office. The Hon. Member for Inverness was no friend to the colo nies if he endeavoured to persuade them that there was a possibility of returning to the old state of things, if he attempted to cajole them into the belief that there was a party here ready to return to the commercial policy which the people of England had declared to be oppres sive to the community and mischievous to those whom it was intended to serve.—(Loud cheers.) Let them not be deceived into the belief that the people of England were not firm to the policy they had adopted —that they would favour any interest, be it that of the landowner or the shipowner, to the detriment o f anot h er i nterest -- that they would longer submit to subsidise the colonies-- or that they would resuscitate that monopoly to which they had already given a death-blow.—(Cheers.) The amendment having been seconded, Mr. HAWES rose and said, that but for the motion of which the Hon. Gentleman the member for Stoke hag given notice, it would have been his (Mr. Hawes's) duty. as it would be his inclination, immediately to have fol lowed the speech of the Hon. Member for Inverness. The latter Hon. Member had made heavy and grave charges against his Noble Friend at the head of the colonial department—ageinst the Colonial-office in times gone by—and, he (Mr. Hawes) might almost say, nand Parliament and the country itself.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman bad attempted to support these charges by re'erence to the papers on the table, in a manner most disingenuous and unfair.—(Applause.) And he had said that he wished a Committee to inquire into the con duct of the Colonial-office in reference to Ceylon and British Guiana; but why had he struck out the Mauri tius? He (Hr. Hawes) entreated of the Hon. Mover to adhere to his motion as it originally stood. He feared no inquiry.—(Applause.) He invited inquiry —nay, mor e , he was anxious to grant it—(renewed applause)_and he was perfectly willing that the Mauritius, or any other colony should be inserted. Let it not be understood for a moment that either his Noble Friend at the head of the Colonial Department or himself feared in the slightest degree any inquiry that might be instituted. He feared it as little as the Right Hon. Gentleman had reason to fear it, who conducted the colonial affairs un der the last administration. He was ready to meet it, and then the Hon. Mover of the resolution would have an opportunity of making good his charges.—(lleac.) That House was not the place to make these charges. particularly in the way in which they had been advanced. Having determined to move for a Committee of inquiry, he might have suspended his bitterness and personality. —(Hear, hear.) Having proposed to inquire whether there was any ground for the charges, he, at least, might have postponed his judgment until his own accusations were proved, as they would be proved, to be utterly un founded.—(Cheers from the Ministerialists, and laughter from the Protectionists.) He ( Mr. Hawes) was prepared to be met with some jeering, but he was entitled at least to a respectful hearing; at least, this he might say, that the jeering would not interrupt him in the course he in tended to pursue.—(Applause.) He did not mean by declaring his willingness to enter on the inquiry, and his determination to have that inquiry followed u p, to shrink in any respect from dealing as well as he wag able with the charges and accusations brought forward. —(Hear, hear.) Now, the Colonial-office had been ee cused of tyranny and oppression, and wasteful expendie ture; and it was contended that the colonies should have control over their own affairs, and over the ex penditure of their own taxation. But no distinction had been drawn, and no discrimination used in treating of the subject. One would have thought from the opening speeches that there was not a colony in existence which had a representative government.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Mover had attacked in generalities; he had cone fined his illustrations to two or three oases; and he had not stated fully and fairly what was the colonial policy of the country. Mr. BAILLIE—I stated that I would confine my ob' servations to two of the colonies. Mr. HAWES said that he only was now dealing Wit h the general charges advanced, and that he would after wards come to the particular cases.—(Hear.) First of all, attention had been drawn to the colony of Ceylon; and it was necessary to follow that part of the case WY by step. When Lord Torrington had been appointed+ and when he arrived in that colony, he found its treasury almost bankrupt, its trade declining, and, of course, the European population chiefly engaged in trade, at ths! t time by no means in a prosperous and thriving condi" tion. Now, the Hon. Mover had not made the slightest reference to any of the measures which Lord Tore rington had introduced or carried with reference to tax ation. He had not said a word ab out t h e re d uc tions hi; Lordship had made; not a word about how be ha d revived trade and expanded the springs of industry; and not a word about the amount be b,„, d ~ converted from direct to indirect taxation. allusion had been made to any part of the case which would have done Lord Torrington justice, but most_ Ts_ taxation.—(Cheers.) aat i : ingenuously and unfairly had those points only Def touched which would be likely to produce an unfavour able impression on the House.—(Cheers.) Why. e _ se i first thing,his Lordship did on witnessing the deprs condition of affairs in the color y was instantly c ola' tore municate with all the leading departments, and to d__97: expense of all kinds. Next, he investigated the ou ti n r ; u l and repealed taxes pressing on the land to the era . 30,0001. a-year.—(Cheers.) Then he institutels u e h r 7 l6 wiry law the state of the exPeadillAre' oWI •