The Sun. — London, England, 1842-03-22 00:00:00

----.... • 11.— (iiear.), ad said that, for his Corn: lule, that. no , estion . was d the Right t, and yet ; night after exclusion of , - Over neces-, . *r 10 Corn 13111,- purry for ie Right. • 1 1 thi. melt 0. Nix .ly by • tioe that f unfcir con- x, .—(C beers.) ce the clot in or der to Ewers.) The Bill had. beea i O , ItO," from E.ctronet had for fourteen 111 r. „Buller) c.)riet meant l uch.- - ( ' • : Oh, ,then it, meant - 'ter.) The 're L taking t - all yet. re 4 into nol at the Cora Baronet was E, he NO t he prece leers.) oru - ha' cit been de ' ebae the d or° ✓e A nd w had said that e would pro nnouncemeo LetingesaGt l F • import most to aP re l '- kJ be impos • ow should be ion wbicb oust • t he year. .85 • e eousideratioa e great advan y w say that r ill item oSitr glicer opp subject, on :0 publc bl l , 5 w yis ,„1- inteutioo tie ineo olo 41. D Big sa nv id 1 t o r+iv to th, ° re su. o d pro; he •sh e„- d • 'she° Ho U. H oar• tight: &o ld of.‘" year. ) gear, tha t Fries v d it vi,.;stil coilsi.,:ch h ad es, o bi ' could 11 ' 1 0 1 whatev t i 0 0 there waost country /Of, levied t he) the snug into ras taken hio t seem i. Gen ti 'd .1. it he ( 1 ",,,0f ouid c er I r w ards oo"n , n d co' L etfb's ine reg r . t but, at the 0 0 11000 1 , re th e h e new 00 . 1 1 `1, opositi ou Oh, a!!,4rf" '0 ithout now , se gt Imago dr, 001 Itte° o f cemen ts l l ade of hii if al to the '„ t tion ve.a:o ~ atisfaett t„;t1 .ntleoiss tax, i f ° ilia' led it, oe,efel .11 be b44' at it ‘ gas o ok i vellichtll o belie v— „ s ot° the or, tb. Pee t ld 0 — • Right , e,' uestiou - te , msorti °s o l '. be prlf n that , •r nigh ° ofe presen t hes , to tag' —let ' , tie', .• i t s be bd be‘ o of „presa ° o o t he' s 0 . Gen si jia ' modifi e d ' prOP °9 to 0 1 jr -ons , qio Tha • id it is be st hat mir 4bee l ' t,l l the ut .„.,, v eedlob;;; pos h id he Pe" tb i the o f ado , ' e l The' P e A r I.,°` tang o : . o be Meat t r b A r. 0 , 13°.. 4 11 CO, jog' „dee 40 liaf e j A ° ll ° ,,l he ven,ijir )sac k tO iPg )fieth° ‘)." ,r , re f°( 0 ° gh ot tP ° ea ] Of 1 0 , cor" Sh ° t ss tevti°,-6 51 0 sot' tlj e quv - t or i f the i d be 0 , 0 0 ' 0 ,101 , Se e tree s. f t r ° eu• -c tr ,_.„. 17° tt e-' 0 ta. ybe 18 56 Atb e oce f - c, 4145 , o ,e e r s l3l° ol 4 ga s Re o , pe u , e re 1.. 00 i bere, t to lie' 'so old; re Lust D ir. be fore , c v- 0 1 ,rpo ; ,, n f ltli• 0 0, ra p. 00 ,u 7," pity. on re e a a t it rked caul ato ic l; .d e hor' that auhie. gr e 7 Tilden ' s ! 41 to °"' he Cl Ut Y c i bile ; life, be f. With ouki °— c ause 1 . 36 , Bra" r it ". ". ° s t or :- of of i s v so It ea/ obacc or 18 26 as ~ pulau 1 1)1 1 :ii r ;na b .2\ ; o ars c i he 0 051 ;:b,4 ntitY P" t er m deraur,",:e• . ea se 5 dal" ar bti d t he to" - o f thig o f fret; es , anti 'redu ce ' pdiheY • ht. Big A : ,ecte. 'alett . 11/644 'see. tare i i en f w e . i s „a iPee . ,„,_ .akt.te greund.—( Hear, hear.) He t Mr. Hawes) Iwiolic7l7.te jitjuiraodudghtet the ee rßeivgehntueHeofnthGe e e n e t u l n em tr ; . n's TChoretrie * hi, si "• s 4considerable j et sq w ou l d n e lanaverag uty imposed on con, ___y bring in a ger revenue. (Hea d ) lietliti4eof...llrigh_ common. B aronet enter upon a comprehensive re cont ercial tariff, and he might rely upon it that Cs el ect of su amend ments which would be pointed out would have o,, , ;set t i te „, _ IVIYIng all the revenue he wanted. The late til ed -b"„` v s_retild have done this if they had not been h i _refd re, ;ii_u_nsewhe now succeeded them.—( Hear, hear.) tili ot . (ti t . ;the p r esent Government had no right to taunt 4: 44 d in ) for threatening to g ive them all the o osi % as t - seen ° °Yance he could. Te re duction p roposed by PP the dip obAd .hitve naent nt the duties on cern, suga r, and timber 4a B ut ,IttliPpit.ed the deficiency, as he ' (Mr. Hawes) could L e 114 14 , y, instead of corning to an income tax, did not s .: tigh t s'lnn• Gentleman draw upon landed property, ' which r,hied .2 113, by an anaendnsent of the stamp dirtirsis which now !, t to 47' u4e qually on society ? From this source he would Ned -revenue if he tr",ed. The Right Hon. Baronet i t- i N v a l f ,, t _ h _ e eoxperne of war in China and Affghanistan, but it,l wit har,t, t contrast the necessities arising from those petty i of !nose in which the country was placed at the break -144 0 tee Fre h P ti., w ould neve 'le .evolution ? But the people of Eng , f' a tt t sy stem r '_pbriiit to be taxed for the purpose of carry i st „eliie s. ~- °, retaliatory bloodshed against the people t k " a uet i t i o j'tr haveAffg however atrocious their b it ' 5 ° 0 ,0 Jo/ been. Mr. Humphrey's book stated l id P d ttt - might be raised from a modification of the 1 411 1% 4er e t s h s so as that lauded property should pay mare; l'lsis e wr ssid ran put up with the odious vexation of an income _,ltki rather see the stamp duty on the succession of ,4,l,...litts,.from.P„serty raised to ten times its present amount. The .44 .. hrpioss entletnan had quoted only three .things, by no I's 2 th e :, fltant articles, except that of tobacco ; upon two of wlle t . ' e bad jumped at the conclusion that there was " T t 4 s t ! . the ins 'souce of taxation than ' that of on , incomes. treeny oti °rne tax in itself, he (Mr. Hawes) held to be es t,9 ettatst in its operation, and that nothing short of tot, `roatht;;" necessity, or an overwhelming emergency, aleaost :sell it e l! u t , s a foreign invasion, could justify any resort it 3P di et . titd - 0 _ 1 ;te• They ec,uld riot levy the tax with justice— )l s ers ole !oY collect by a most odious system. It was levied t i ir _stai t i t ... , _ ma ntler urns different descriptions of property ; 4 1 id ~' , l 4l ll;Z:2_' , the ,peofessional man who was in one sense thsLuttl,,te7.t, anst the man with an estate in fee simple, 14 76 si t t e : i f.ertnt kinds of property were to be charged at t itltt t felta s , aw Ise would say that was perfectly monstrous tile di ff sbits, kit svor'e almost amounting to an official work, ache * teas Yer•—was attempted to be shown the ratio of s uot Spe ' o l • l -Vs of property. He took as an example 1002. Pitt ed „ tri i nt : rent of land, and compared that to the same Ittsi se :oes :' rest on mortgages and other incomes. He coin. 141.1;„"tei tc annuity of 1001. was worth about 901. in corn kite,' ttiek t ' 1 00/. on land. The interest on permanent and ?rt e istt ite h e computed at 85/. to the 1001. In commerce, &ad 1 ' 4 . 4 es, and trade, the profits of which were derived from rtsdi l l t s it __,l° estimated 75/. to the 100/. The occupier of 14 ,tta tk if i so l,°_ , o one child he computed at 70/. The profit de leittlsestd Lio servants 601. to the 100/. But when he came t . ‘l 4 ' sA, ‘ e cupation, and principal wholly derived from in • ,Ili t Sit„ e TttPared it as 501. to the 1001. of rent on land. "lit, -44`„,,._i500k Mr. Sayer stated that the estimated income o. l4 ' 4 4 4 ll s iru il ~, 00 0/, .there were 49 millions, or about 30 per Ithe ~,, s s i i wle commissioners with all their. power were not t.s e s' os ses e ,ts The tax held out a temptation to perjury of 'so I se t ' kind ; and just in proportion as they gave ade tiAsste%lAto the collecters, would that temptation be likely I : e t • t o 41 the tax inflict misery upon the country. If he 1; tY ai r see the country agitated and disturbed s e etion, he knew nothing more likely to produce ttilh Istslt than the mposition of an income tax, ti•lif!, t!et:_s_till have agit a t ion and discontent—they w ou ld Ns, :to 'Anne down to that H ouse t o obtain another mea- Nia 1 ahould be just and comprehensive, but the Right 41.11t,ti a ps e n : hadtaken another course. 'rho Right Hon. Ba tt% Tes t say that the income tax was an imposition upon l k I t s t 3 ' °f the country, and not upon the principal article N i t Pti t e ,n, and whilete Right Kon. Baronet proposed to t stt t , h e „ wee per cent. upon income, the duty upon corn, I ta i of irl°Posed was equivalent to 20/per cent. upon the in kJ'skits „esPoorest classes of the people.—(Hear, hear, and t betsheut dissent from the Hon. Members on the Tree -01 i t bat h k ) The Chancellor of the Exchequer shook his 117 4 , Ron, „ ",„e (Mr. Hawes) would say though groat that ,tsN.Ct:l?etitleman's authority was upon matters of that tNl,ol9os 4 1. he (Mr. Hawes) stated would be borne out by i t tlie tt ' 3 f various other persons. There is, for instance, 6 I,„ e , ( . 1 Mr. Jones Lloyd, who was entitled to the 'is l e 4 'gilt with that House, as well as with the public.— Lilli e : t i a 'Z? ... In reference to the Corr.-laws, Mr. Jones 't v , th e 'I we estimate the average income of each fa- Nth.,Poorerfitt classes to be 10s. a week, the average punt il'ta, 4 les is four, and if the price of corn be 60s. I/ the w e cannot estimate the outlay of each fa- t:t Sif tslnirchase of corn at less than ss. per week. ttittlPes,:d:LCorn-laws raised the price of corn 20 per cent., p k t , 4l s-s( I f all income tax upon the poorest families in the ' s s s oap t i e ar w a s hear.) The taxation of the great article s ll l l elas s 4 4l a direct taxation upon the income of the ',it'‘lf like;', 4 9n certainly, that being the case, the great . Ip tit Lt sf Itet, e ; "I made by Hoe. Gentlemen on the opposite o,o,:lli t.f s_ n le• with a very good grace from them as advo ct,.."•;w7 'Flaws.—( Cheers from the Opposition.) He I it rs s . s" , befor e the House the various points which were li t , i ti (Itt..4n addition, he would only say that the Noble hs,ssinn itussell) should have his most cordial and 1 ( 4,` l se t — o rt to his opposition to the Ministerial measur3, h:,}rswe La d not say he would " obstruct" the measure, as IL :Nti:°Pposite had said upon a former oZscasion.— I. et ifrh of dissent from Lord Stanley. `, He (Mr. ' t i : Of t ; ,t_gliote the lan . guage of the Noble Lord, the lit'tsZolijetorth Lancashire, w ” hen the Noble Lord stated I, te s 3stek t wag to " obstruct the measure of the late ..,---(`` No, no," from Lord Stanley.) He (Mr. 'es srs "'sure he t. N rota . had herd the Noble Lord distinctly ex s et p , , *t ot 41 inn to " obstruct" the measure of the late SZtis Nts t (near, hear)— an d h e (M r. Hawes) believed li t s ' . ls a H of the N o bl e L or d were to be found in every )s t 'ess tsi7, record of Parliament—at all evens if there Ili, i ' Otte, there were other ears than t his (Mr. i t 4 St u . ° had heard the words and recorded them. " 4 1 ; r t ts47,tit tk_ Government,the l eng th o f say i ng that it was his intentio n t o 4 I 14 i 0t e Ze Present measure of the. he meant $ 4,0 4 ;Y Possible opposition, as being an odtous and un ;',:io s its %%der the circumstances of the ease, the necessity 4 ,' ' tOin ~f 'HA proved, and as being calculated to lay the Niti,SsistZ_national vice and misery. Therefore it was that ' 1 \i,74 1 ,-.84 bound, on every ground, to give the Bill his Ah. 4 liktiesand determined opposition. —( Opposition cheers. ) .., ~ 7vtetN.lnatt THOMPSON said that the Hon. Member ~lioiyte.Z(rMr. Hawes) had begun by stating that he would ,I:sti,ll.4t.e e other sources of taxation without the necessity olkssoc. seo lt_ u ._, rse . to an income tax, and Mr. Alderman i ts , s % N oo n's appeal to the House whe th er . the Hon, Gui lt a,ss ~ 4 ‘.signally faded in his declaration. It was true t,'„l 4o fa a ; l 4 l ,tig the duties on some commodities, a certain s 4L V ei tt- 4 G y lt ri ' t i t lt . , might be raised; but with respect to what r 4 sug ar , 7_ l all had suggested as to the reduction in sttlis:l b se eot ,: t .use had not told the House whether he meant s'c.rsa t ing to the scale proposed by the late Chancellor , s„„Sti s „ th e Tor- In his (Mr. Alderman Thompson's) .04,sti st , . d eg would have acted most injudiciously in tie t ° d; P!°Position. This country had made great sa )sttistdats:nt.lnish slavery, and they ought to encourage tOit h , 1y,,, i 1 e3 to adopt a similar laudable course. t„ti us +N oe ell those countries were following our examples I;‘si,'lsar s , b e ts, and endeavouring to bring about the aboli iN only i• The Hon. Gentleman stated that an income _t:tq Itapb,stiflable in a state of war. Did the Hon. Gen .,71,, ,‘.,.1%1`a0-7%that the war was merely confined to Atighan taT if s , "i their Indian provinces . were shaken to their 1 , - st , si t 44 dissatisfaction prevailed in them, and it was ttke Ole astry . strortg measures. to retrieve their position in Ole 1 44 . 11 li, N., 11i,„, f ere was scarcely a family connected with Net th°nnei6a7ures, but had profited directly or indirectly i h es ss r ee t , a with India; he thought, therefore, that this Vl's od s v '" . r cent, ought to be cheerfully paid by the tat 44 ' 4l t a lssitt) ,onfacturing interests of the country. The Hon. l t `e ti /. 3 , 44 4 stated, that nothing but the greatest emergency 'it st t ti se i tad ari income tax ; and the other night, the Member I N? 4 /4 ittC s aid, that among other reasons for his opposing 1 4, is s tatti on is . that it would lower England in the estimation 'O t S' *er e ,I , tfid that it would be thought that the sources of ' e tsf eri e d Ss k‘ ss th e up. But would not this be more manifest in ,i i se s :sin to w9rld, if they were not able to take a decided dlsl.tillN:tlse such a sum within the year, as they sup lostits% ay' a 'or the suppurt of the State. The condition of it t sli t ;?of & t es of North America, of many of these of South ~‘ o sZter C l ° , and of Portugal, ought to act as a warning t ‘ii,4 l 7 i t Puse before he proposed measures for borrow 'ss,,,'4l4,,tl L e ' lr tke of peace. The dilapidated state of our tot:, The liSed by the mismanagement of the late I V, , t•re'tn_ present nintstry had consequently felt (s t . et etce a strong measure in order to main the honour ! , 'ili t ';_list t t ee 1 I ,:' A tax to which the country might . 4 ei t 'li t ole wale objection, but the machinery for N°ssdett o which was less onerous, less inquisitorial ` 3 to u t ile: 4l e than it had been under the old system. t it t 'it s,'S o„easnre would be carried into operasion on the bsa.tlt`erehsretriment in a spirit of confidence towards the A104144' t,...►,gt; that the Government would not imagine 1, 1 , 0 5 1 ,, 11 .,11 41 , ta it '`g e ing interests of the country would take any Oi l `-) 4 ter ' The honour of the British merchant bad : v,Lttlitle:tinbeen untarnishe, and he trusted . the Right itt * 1‘4,1t11 1 ,,,, w ollia not suffer it to be called in question ss ' l loTes,74 r F er - The Right Hon. Gentleman had said ZNlcrti t : 4 in the least in any part of his plan. There TY' hill L'fit, howeve'r, with which he (Mr. Alderman f ,''e, ti l lti d s;t ti e Zl the Right Hon. Gentleman would not per ss, si,,..ti ttt ,nt imposing the same tax on permanent and ! 410 ht e laii: Iti es- The Act of George IV. had been passed :ii NV.. 0. 1 1 -., t A h „ - i nducing persons to convert their permanent i C h. lta st ,N . - "lties and stock into terminable Government k i tisTst7osa s i t ',,a,p,Person receiving 3,0001. a year from the s It s 't q had ,' th e income tax 871. 10s., or 262/.lO i s n ., te bu r.. t e. ''' llttlt:4tseso,,,,'°'ested the same amount of cap it a l fittt did 10` 4 R ,ent annuities, he would receive for ten years .! ~D,t`s -4 '„ - ,,', 21 - 10swhich the income tax se ",er'„ Qta lt l S - ,`ei arnou . nt to 309/. 10s. or 24/. Oid. per h e ed sa te ti7 a ; ) I•1 the proper income from his capital. i s ` ti ss •ttis4 tti that that subject had not been fully con iivo iit hi_ kiE4.lßht Hon. BarOnet, or he would not hav sub • Lt th t sia , I S sso„,, a nnuities to the same tax as incomes. and nts ' 0 ,,,,,05 5e - "•°' Yet alter his decision upon the matter. etit te , t es ole :er, su rt the principle of the tax proposed I t h l ai l t r ti f ls ' l, t,andProping its - details would be corrected in st °se r ii, b e sly o .kli . ,:tta ~ News s ssatil that the country was no doubt in finan- Z,k t f f , 3r * VeCt the Right Hon Baronet, in order to meet ,s7os-rttes he is;, 4 l prop osed a tax on the income of the h .p t i dir,,e4t,g_et Hon. Baronet had, however, told them t ..,'iti t i; el h. - ', I Y et'', , that the raising of a revenue by taking s r ,',tii h leet t , L t sp a : 1. the pockets of the people was a vulgar il'i gh lY is - itt' ; °is (Sir W Clan's) belief that the process sr 1 ,7' 4 iClt,::,, s was decidedly the more convenient; and 8 'A4 I4)- 7 1 4 1 7, of indirect taxation was preferable to a tax rtti, ' tio, t 't the-14,'1,at preposed by the Right Hon. Baronet. ' 1 1 ,51 1 4 te s t e ter e rgin Hon Gentleman was one which would w `l 4 is t A i lie , oLieeo'en•Yecie.the industry of the country, The ob • 10 i t , set tim not de :_s?t were so numerous and inevitable that 0 h e hi t 411 - G e ``un the Committee long on that subject. N I • 4.sse t f t 4t lernan mi ght il tt ; 1 1 , 4 14 2 1* W, ernsinable annuities, he must in other cases, perhaps say that if he gave L tl sti t : l •llt:::ei the aY) thought the argument of his Hon. 17Pit k i . t hat i _t 11 0 ,, r b r"r Westmoreland, was very strong, and „tit h a„,oule *; • - •areinet ought net to persevere in an in ,e'tet ~get '," if aim a tax first on interest, and then on ;', 4 4 1 , 4 t t , Ba ronet filar cases should be made out, surely the t oe ii i kt s ,..._r'esti e d ".et would not lu ng s rese exemption. ht in fli\cetiNet to 41 t he most gai manner in 1816 : there 04,44° he Nect it would be less so now. Why was f t ".c-eil liss r e e : t d from inquisition ? His profits would be h ßlit t l E S LIP pr tte — ` Against this favour to the farmer he % Ps `sat , %a th 'test on the artof his constituents. But k, t,r 6 . 1,, e re ,„,..._ pa . to the t et ,hs,la t Zon et i :'", an adequate necessity ju stify a ret,Nites'`!. ttZlea o f ~:2roPosing an income tax. fis me _ I, to u 4, t er rteeting one interest at the expense of is oe ,er ocriee es 01 monopoly. His opinion was that '°,7oas ttlla Yas the • p t , , ~ttit . 4 , tia s, int , , price c . f . subsistenee . rose. The tt o 't•tt 'af....; 18 19 w +lining the income tax, /5,450,000/. e .,,tikui s nlie ti . , has 54,2 57,000/. ; the difference being Y f :art fYS t _, t 4 th e ar. ) But there had been re stoke jf e k:lBl l 4 4 o e ff amount of 14,300,000 . 1., so that re so "eels ? , d to 1 812 n the revenue, in the four 4 4 : y 41 % 1 '144440 sh ose lv f a: 6,4 , 0 0,000/. Now what was the v ,, %.,._ . rent .._ lir years? It was the highest al t ' y t ,:e res itas 7as Ells. 6d. the quarter. The next tt lai s as ts, f 7s w as sixably lower. The mean price of the IP4 S6T state u d as : 1°,1.--in 1 820-21-22-23. The re ,46o,oodzin 1 819 was 54,257,000/. The revenue '' b eing an inertase of 290,000/. But there had been taxes taken off to the amount of 600,000/. From 1831 to 1836 inclusive, the price of corn was 495. The increase in the revenue during those years was 730,0001. The following four years was a perod of comp trativelyhigh prices; the mean price was 635. Now what vrss the effect upon the revenue? Why that the nicotine fell off to the amount e t 1,860,000/. From all this it was evident that the income of the country depended in a great degree von the cost' f subsiste nce From the figures he had stated, some ii-innarkable deductions were to be drawn. In the five yatra to which he had referred, the price of corn was 49 es Id. per quarter, and he had the au thority of the Right Hon. Baronet, that, under the Corn-lace proposed by the late Government, the price of corn, ranging at 40s. a quarter a if added to the fixed duty of Bs., would give a price of 48s. a quarter, or Is. a quarter less than the price when the revenue manifested the increase. There was, there fore, every reason to suppose that instead of a deficiency under that plan, there would have been a very large inereass. But he was aware that this reasoning, however just, might not apply to the present emergency, and that though the income of the country might gradua ly improve. yet it would not be early enough for the occasion. In the Budget of last year the deficiency was estimated at 2400,000/. and had that Budget been carried, his Right Hon. Friend,cal culated that there would have been an increase of between 1,600,0001., and 1,700,000/, which would have to be deducted from the deficiency, and it was doub ful whether for the approach ing year there would have been any deficiency at all. He was sure the House must see that there were other means short of an in come tax which would be quite sufficient to producethe deficiency which it was necessary to raise ; the Right Hon. Baronet made propositions which would have a serious effect upon the country in general ; the Right Hon. Baronet appeared cer, taitily to great advantage in the character of a Reformer. To refer to details, the new tariff would destroy the manufac. ture of starch, tas regarded the support of the measure out of doors, he believed that the Right Hon. Baronet would find it not arnesigst the middle classes, but among the Chartists, for the iormer dreaded it as the suicide of our commerce—it would also cause a reduction of wages. The time might come when that class by whom the Right Hon. Bart. was now supported, seeing the ruin of the other classes fall on themselve, would rue their present conduct. He would oppose the tax both because of its base and inquisitorial character, and because he believed it was not required by the exigences of the State. Believing that the required sum might be provided by adopting the system of taxation proposed in the Budget of last year, he would give the measure every opposition in his power. Sir G. CLERK said that on a subject so extensive in its nature as that under consideration, he would consider it his duty to condense the few remarks which he had to make as much as possible; and he rejoiced that there were some points upon which the House agreed, and which it was not ne cessary therefore to discuss at all. There was no person, with the exception of the Hon. Baronet who had just sat down, who contended that it was possible to allow the discrepancy between our income and our expenditure to continue with out some means being taken to equalise them. It seemed to be universally admitted that it would be unwise to meet the deficiency by a fresh issue of Exchequer bills a vote of credit, or by making any addition to the debt, which would be only s putting off the evil day, when they must impose additional taxes to make tio the deficiency in the revenue. No one could imagine that there could be any reduction made in our expenditure at the present moment. From the events which had recently happened in India, it must be evident that there could be no prospect of any reduction in our establishments. On the contrary, it would be the duty of the Government to propose supplemental military estimates in order to retrieve our disasters in that country. Hon. Gentle men opposite admitted that if the necessity for the imposition of the income tax could be made out, they would not object to it ; but they urged that it was so oppressive and so inquisito rial, that every effort should be made to use other means to make up the deficiency before recourse was had to a direct tax upon property and income. The Right Hon. Gentleman, the Member for Portsmouth, had said that twenty-two millions a taxation had been taken off since the war, and had suggested the re-imposition of some of those taxes rather than the impo sition of an income tax. It should be recollected, however, that the taxes thus reduced were taxes on articles of consumption used by the poorer classes, and that the re-imposition of them would be inflicting a burden on the lower orders from which the wealthy were permitted to escape. The great object of Hon. Gentlemen opposite seemed to be to re-introduce the Budget of last year.—( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman, the late Chancellor of the Exchequer, had given it as his opinion that by an alteration in the duties on sugar and timber, and by the imposition of a fixed duty on corn :they might make up, if not the whole deficiency, at least a large portion of it. He differed from them upon that point ; and he found that in doing so he was borne out by the authority of the late Presi dent of the Board of Trade, who stated on Friday night last that no modification of existing taxation would, in his belief, enable the Government to meet the difficulties of our financial situation. With regard to the question of sugar, which had been so much alluded to in the course of these discussions, the justification of the course the Government had pursued upon that subject was to be found in the fact that a reduction of that duty would lead to an encouragement of the slave trade ; but he hoped that measures would yet be taken by the slave-hold ing states, which would enable the Government to relax their policy upon that point. The Right Honourable Gen tleman who last sat down had his remedy also, and he said that a repeal of the Corn-laws was that remedy. But he thought that the subject of corn had been fully dis cussed already, anti he believed the more the measure of the Government was known, the more it will be appreciated, and the more satisfactory it would appear to the people every day. —( Cries of " Oh, oh," and " Hear, hear.") The N. ble Lord, the Member for Sunderland, said that if they had a fixed duty they would have a large revenue, but he believed the large ma jority who opposed the scheme of a fixed duty would consider they had a go o d b arga i n i n t h e i ncome tax. The Right Hon. Gentleman, the late Chancellor of the Exchequer, ha bringinra forward his Budget, had stated that he expected only 400,000/. Mr. BA RING in addition to the revenue already received. Sir G. CLERK—He certainly did not so understand the Right Hon. Gentleman when he brought forward his Budget. Anti it was now, for the first time, that he was lead to be lieve that the Right Hon. Gentleman expected 900,0001. The Hon. Member for Lambeth seemed to think the tax was imposed merely for the war in Affghanistan, whereas it was to cover the whole general deficiency of the revenue. It was not advisable to supply that deficiency from taxes on consumption. With regard to the duty on foreign timber, if they doubled the duty on Colonial timber they might receive an increase, but it could not be made available for the present year. There fore it was impossible to look at any alteration of the timber duties as a means of supplying the deficiency. Having re moved all prohibitions, and made great reductions in the duties en raw materials fur manufactures, what was there inconsistent in extending the benefit of a reduction of duty to their fellow-countrymen in the Colonies ?—( ) The Hon. Gentleman strongly adverted to the question of to bacco ; but he (Sir G. C.) did not think that. there was any thing wrong in endCavouring to induce India and Australia to break up the mon ipoly of the United States, by a reduction of 3d. in the pound in the duty. lie had heard with some sun prise the declaration against direct taxation, from the Hon. Baronet, the Member for the Tower Hamlets, that it was ena bling a tyrannical Government to lay hold of the property of the people, and was entirely opposed to the principles of a free Government.—( Hear.) He (Sir G. Clerk) regretted that the Honourable Member for Bolton had not been in his place when the Honourable Baronet. laid down that principle, because, he would have heard from him a comparison of the proposition of direct taxation this country bore to the direct taxation of France, and other coun tries of Europe. That Hon. Member had been most anxious to lay on the table of the House a statement of the finances of all the countries of Europe, in order to show the proportion the direct taxation bore, and the proportion the indirect taxation bore to the total revenue of the country. It was perfectly true that life annuities and life interests would feel this tax severely. The Hon. Member for Lambeth had read an extract from a work, by Mr. Sayer, to show that various classes of the country would feel the tax with different degrees of se verity, on occount of t he nature of the property ; but this ob jection would apply to every other tax, and he did not think it applied to the property tax in a greater degree than to other taxes. It did not apply in a greater degree than to the window tax, or ,the house tax. A man with immense wealth would perhaps occupy lodgings, and pay no rate or window tax, whilst the poor tenant was obliged to occupy a house, and have a greater amount of window taxes to pay than his rich neigh bour, who had an income above him of a hundred fold. But he (Sir George Clerk) believed that the great objection to the income tax was that it would press heavily on the profits in trade, and the great objection urged was that it was inquisitorial. An objection to this kind of tax had been taken by no less an authority than Mr. Fox, and his objection was, not that it pressed too heavily on the trading interest of the country, but that the landed in terest of the country was that which felt it most severely, be cause they had no means of escaping from the operation of the tax. Now the principal objection urged to this tax was the disclosure which it required the merchant or the trader to make from time to time of their affairs, and that, perhaps, at a moment when it would be extremely inconvenient, and perhaps ruinous to him to make that disclosure of his affairs. Now, he thought that the modification proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet would go far to remove that ob jection. In the first place, those disclosures would not be made but at the option of the parties, and then not before per sons of a similar calling, and who might be expected to deal with partiality, actuated by political motives, or otherwise. Those disclosures would be made before special c ommissioners, sworn to secresy. The sum to be raised by this tax, and the other measures to be proposed, would amount to more than the sum required, but he thought it was much better to raise an smalleram ou ut a b in y o a n n property-tax 1 of p e r 3 cent., p er acnedn the thansuro surplus s o raise a amount would be applied to a reduction in duty of those articles es which pressed heavily on commerce. One of the principal of these would be timber, and he was very much surprised at the objection of tte Hun. Gentleman opposite to this proposition, because what he proposed was that recommended by Sir Henry Parnell, that a reduction should be made in the duty on Baltic timber of 30s. Now he (Sir G. Clerk) believed that the pro posed plan would be of much more benefit to to econsaudme of 'consumer. Looking to the advantage to agriculture and the trade this country—!coking to the shipping interest, he believed that there was no duty, the modification of which would be attended with more advantageous results than that upon timber. He believed that the increased consumption would in three or four years make up the deficiency, and give a great stimulus to trade. He believed that this reduction would give general satisfaction. It was perfectly true there there were objections to the details, but he believed that when they were explained to the House, the House and the country would as sent to the principle upon which that reduction was framed, and they might look forward, in the course of a few years, to a great improvement in the trade and industry of the country. He could believe that that class of society in this country upon whom the burden of the property tax would prtncipally fall, die., the landed proprietor, and the great capitalist, would wil lingly bear their part when they felt that they were giving re lief to commerce, for by so doing they would look forward to in creased happiness and comfort through all classes ofthecommu nity. He would say that the adoption of this measure would lead foreign nations to consider the extent of our re sources, and it would show to them that when the service of the country required it the country was ever ready to come forward. There was no doubt that this tax would press heavily on certain classes, but he trusted they would look to the ultimate good, and trusted that that House would adopt the measure by a large majority. Lord DA L AIENY said he was anxious to take that oppor tunity of stating, its a very few words, his opinion of this mea sure. He was more anxious to do so, because he confessed that he did not participate in the extreme hostility expressed by many on that side of the House to the abstract princtple of the tax, because on one occasion, in 1e3;.-1, he was found in the minority on a motion for substituting direct for indirect taxa tion,but it appeared to him that that the question was not so much the abstract principle of an income tax, but as to the necessity of its imposition —as to the present necessity for its imposition. All those who had preceded him in their oppo sition tolthe measure, all had acknowledged that an emer gency might arise which would render the imposition not only necessary but expedient. The question then was, had such an emergency now arisen, and were we placed in the midst of such a crisis? He believed that very considerable praise was due to the Right Hon. Baronet for the manner in which (Lord Dal bienitiresadveducetbdathissinficenatreiadlasytsatnefmpeeittt, m h e e n h y a ) d no li s e tatement was made in a more statesman-like manner, and with more felici tous language, and the manner in whicb he conducted them through the obscure labyrinth of financial details, imparting that interest which was only derived from a most volumnious development of the silbject ( Hear, hear) — and with regard to the proposition made he would say that it was much better than applying a fictitious remedy to the embarassment of the finances of the country. But there were two causes only on which he should be disposed to support a measure similar to that proposed by, the Right Hon. Baronet. The first would be suptiOsing that country was fighting for empire and existence against some foreign foe, desirous of destroying her power and blotting her from the nations of the earth ; in that case he should submit to any sacrifice, for that sacrifice would be nothing compared to the evil it would ward off. Or if the Right Hon. Gentleman had come down that night and stated to the House the ex istence of alarming deficiencies in the revenue, and stating that deficiency was more likely to accumulate than diminish, and with that deficiency existed a previous depression of trade, and that universal distress prevailed, when whole classes could find no work, when there were whole 'cities, like Paisley, in ruin—if to remedy this frightful calamity there had been attempts to repeal restrictions on trade in order to open new channels for industry, by giving a stimulus to enter prise, and if to do this he had stated that it was necessary to make an immediate appeal to the property of the country, he would, in that case, have been willing to have offered his support to the Right Honourable Baronet, and should have given the measure his cordial assent, as now he opposed it with an uncompromising resistance.—( Hear. ) The Right Hon. Baronet's measure was one of partial legis lation ; it was brought forward in order to enable the Right Hon. Baronet. to preserve the existence of a monopoly—to enable the Right Hon. Baronet to favour the interests of a particular class. Those were the objects for which the Right Hon. Gentleman had brought forward a measure which had never been resorted to except in times of war. Those were the objects for which the Right Hon. Gentleman introd iced that measure which would have the effect of sending over the land a whole army of tax-gatherers and commissioners, invested with the most obnoxious and inquisitorial powers.—( Hear, hear. ) A more glorious opportunity than the present never was given to any Minister of the Crown to hand down his name to a grateful posterity by the introduction of such a measure as would revive British interests tend rescuscitate British com merce.—( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman neglected that opportunity. No one could doubt that the Right Hon. Gentleman had sufficient power to carry such a mea•ure, but he had exerted that power for particular classes, instead of legislating for the interests and advantages of the country at large. For these reasons, he (Lord Dalmeny) would strenu ously oppose the proposition of the Right Hon. &Joliet. Mr. C. WOOD said he did not know what reason the Right Hon. Baronet had to say that he anticipated opposition from that (the Opposition) side of the House, whatever might be the financial measure proposed. If that was the first time he (Mr. C. Wood) had takers up the opinion he entertained against the income tax, he might be subjected to such a censure; but when it was recollected that in 18,15 he had vo:ed with the Right Hon. Baronet against such a tax—last year he had supported the proposition of the Hon. Member for Portsmouth, and after that he (Mr. Wood ) knew not upon what grounds he was to be charged with giving a factious and vexatious opposition in doing that now which he had already done—when he had acted in perfect accordance with the opinions of the Right Hon. Baronet himself ; for if there was any one gentleman in that House who had depicted in mere forcible language than another the evils of the income tax, it was the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) himself.— (Hear ' hear.) He (Mr. W oo d) ma d e no charge against the Right Hon. Baronet f o r c h ang i ng t h e opinions lie had then entertained—circumstances were undoubtedly changed since— ( Cheers from the Ministerial benches)— but the deficiency at present was not greater than it wa s w h en th e Ri g h t H on. Baronet expressed his opinions against the income tax ; and upon those grounds he (Mr. Wood) said, for himself and his friends on that (the Opposition) side of the House, that at least they should not be accused of a factious and vexatious opposition, merely because they retained the opinions they had already expressed, not deeming those circumstances sufficient to change their opinions, though the Right Hon. Baronet had thought proper to change his.— ( Hear, hear.) In common with his Noble Friend who had just sat down, and the other Hon. Gentlemen who had ad dressed the House, he concurred in the necessity of raising such sums of money as were necessary to sustain the honour of the country. The estimates were not voted ; but he (Mr. Wood) would answer for himself and for those around him, that they would give no opposition whatever to a vote of that House to raise such sums of money as were necessary to maintain the independence and honour of the country—no disposition had been shown upon that side of the House to give any oppo sition to the raising of just and necessary taxes. For his own part he was prepared to vote for any taxes that might be really required, but he could not see that that declaration (which he made with the utmost sincerity) was in any way inconsistent with his intention and determination to offer a most determi nate opposition to the measure which the present Government brought forward. That a tax was necessary he (Mr. Wood) was not disposed to deny.—(" Hear, hear," from the Ministerial benches ) 1 hat additional taxes might be necessary, he would not deny.—(Cheers from the Ministerial benches.) He would go the length of saying even further, that, objectionable as was the income tax, if there was an urgent necessity shown for it, he would not be disposed to give any opposition even to an in come tax ; but he thought the necessity for it should be clearly shown—it should be shown by most conclusive proof. But the Right Hon. Gentleman had altogether failed in adducing those proofs.—( Hear, hear.) Was it not necessary that the. Government should demonstrate the necessity for the tax beyond all doubt ? The Right Hon. Gentleman had attempted to show that no alternative had been left to the country, except the adoption of an income tax. If that had been shown, as he (Mr. Wood) thought and firmly believed it had not, some grounds might be given for imposing that tax upon the country.--( Hear, hear.) He did not want to use any exaggerated expressions in showing the House the objection able nature of that tax. He would merely refer to the language of the petition of the citizens of London in 1816, stating that an income tax was arbitrary in principle and at variance with the interests of the country.' The necessity for the tax at that time was greater than it was at present. No body could look back at the financial state of the country at that time and say that for two years an income tax was not more necessary then to wind up the heavy expenses of the war than the present tax was necessary for three years.— ( Hear, hear.) It was then stated that an income tax was necessary to place the finances of the country upon a solid basis and such was the oppo s iti on g i ven t o t h e tax, that Lord Liverpool's Government was obliged to give way, and leave the country in a large deficiency. The objection to the tax was not its amount, but its obnoxious principle, and its arbitrary inquisition into the private affairs of the people. That was the universal ground of complaint. Was it likely that the objections to it would he less now than they were at that time? Were they to be told that, in the present state of the manufac tures of the country, the inquisitorial process sanctioned by the present measure WAS likely to be more palatable than it was in I816?—( Hear, hear.) On the contrary, the measure now recommended was likely to cause paying to no end, or a disclosure of affairs which might lead to immediate ruin.' He did not think that any modification could be introduced that could mitigate the pressure of that measure; he believed they should take the tax as the Right Hon. Gentlemen had pro poses! it, but the unfairness with which it pressed upon incomes derived from professions, or from temporary means, was beyond all doubt a fatal objection to the im position of such a tax at all.—(Cries of " Hear, hear ") There was an argument used by Hon. Gentlemen on the op posite side to which he (Mr. Wood) wished to refer; he meant the argument which went to show that those who brought forward that measure were the friends of the people— that they proposed a tax which would in no degree piess upoe the poorer classes—that it would bear exclusively upon the rich —(Cheers and counter cheers)—and that it would not in the least bear upon that class of people who depended upon their personal labour and exertion to maintain themselves and their families.—( Hear, hear.) If he thought that was a true description of the measure, it would remove one of the greatest objections it had in his (Mr. Wood's) opinion. In 1833, the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) said that the effect of a tax like that would be to induce persons to seek investment in foreign countries for their capi tal.--( Hear, hear.) Did the Right Hon. Baronet consider how much of the employment of the working classes -of this country entirely depended upon the supply,' not of the necessa ries, but of the luxuries of the rich. No doubt one of the greatest objections to the tax was the effect which it would necessarily have, in forcing capital abroad to other conntries. There was already too great a tendency to produce that effect—( Hear, hear)—and what was still more, it was well known how large a portion of the produce of the foreign manufacturers' establishments —the rivals of this country —were every day im ported by English capitalists.—( Hear, hear.) Hon. Members of that House were heard to say that they had themselves invested large sums in manufactures on the Continent, where articles and commodities were produced cheaper in rival markets. It was well known that machinery was exported from this country to the Continent —that our artisans were every day leaving this country, and it could not be prevented. In various articles of our manufactures, the Grecian and even the Swiss manufactured articles were as good as ours, and much cheaper ; however, there was hitherto one advantage retained in this country—that was, its greater amount of capital —( Hear, hear.) That single advantage —the accumulation of its capital— the proposition of the Right Hon. Baronet was calculated to annihilate that advantage.—( Hear, hear.) If the effect of the measure proposed by the Right Hon. Gentleman was merely to drive capital abroad (and ne one could deny that it would h ave t h at e ff ect), it was certainly a most objectionable measure, and the Right Honourable Gentleman would find that he would derive but very little from the tax which he proposes to impose upon the pro ducts of foreign capital embarked in this country, and so Far from the working classes not being interested in this measure, he (Mr. Wood) believed there was no part of the country upon whom it would more severely press. Those were the reasons which induced him always to believe that an income tax should be reserved for time of war. On those occasions, when the honour and independence of the country are concerned, the feelings of the people would induce them to submit to taxes even.as obnoxious as an income tax, because then they see and feel that the interests of the country depend upon them. The objection which had been taken against direct taxes in time of peace he believed to be perfectly valid and correct. If we looked at the history of our taxation we should find that direct taxes had always been taken off in preference to others ; the property tax had been taken off for that reason, and other taxes on the same ground. The assessed tax was the only direct tax that now remained, and that would ere this have been removed, were it not that people could easily relieve themselves from it, and for that reason alone were the people reconciled to its maintenance. If there were now such a time of warfare, as happily was not now the case, if we had now such a war as the time when the property tax was formerly imposed, then, he would say, as the country had willingly submitted to it before, he doubted not it would again, if similar circumstances occurred— ( Hear)—he doubted not but they would submit to a tax so vexatious and so odious as this. But his firm conviction was, that under existing circumstances it would be impossible, and he did say, therefore, that it was an unnecessary ,and a mischievous proceeding to make the country depend upon a tax which could not be maintained.—( Hear, hear.) He must say that, in his opinion, the arguments which had been urged for the necessity of this tax had altogether failed,—(Hear,) They were called on to support it, first, because there was a deficiency in the revenue of 2,800,0004 , which, with a fair margin of 500,0001., made the total 3,000,0001. to be raised for the exigencies of the country. Was it, indeed, true, that we were to have recourse to such a tax 33 this to raise a revenue of 3,000,0004 ? He (lid not wish to enter into any of the disputations which had occupied their time last year, but he could not help saying that, in his opinion, the Right Hon. Member for Portsmouth demonstrated, as a matter of fact, that if his propositions had been adopted, a considerable increase of revenue would have resulted.—( Hear. ) There could be no doubt whatever that 500,090/. more would have arisen from corn if the Bs. duty bad been imposed upon all corn im'iorted last year. Of that there could be no doubt ; it was net a matter of estimate. but of fact.—( Hear.) He certainly was surprised to hear the Chancellor of the Eieche quer saying that the same quantity of corn would have been admitted.—( Hear.) He (lid not believe that anybody in or out of the House would credit such an assertion, but they would believe with him (Mr. C. Wood) that the contrary would be the fact.—( Hear, hear.) The same thing was argued last year with regard to the sugar duties ; and then the Chan cellor of the Exchequer said that it was unnecessary to go into the proof of that statement, for he admitted it would be the case,—( Hear.) He (Mr. C. Wood) believed that the result of a reduction of the duty would have been attended with an in crease in the revenue of 1,500,0001. He was quite ready to admit that the income to be derived from corn was impos sible to be calculated, so long as the sliding scale was main tained.— (Hear, hear.) But if anything like 1,500,000/. was to be produced from that measure, and 400,0001. was to be rai se d from Ireland. would any one believe that it was 'impossibl e to derive irons Great Britain 1,000,0001. or 2,000,0004 without THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING resorting to an income tax ? After the good-natured rebuke which had been given to provincial Chancellors of the Ex chequer, it would be do u btl et a called itripettinent for him to propose any new taxes.._( Hear.) But it had been stated, the other this a number of taxes had been taken off without being of tha slight benefit to any one—such was the leather tax, by vt hich the edentq had tort four hundred thou sand pounds, and the consumer had gained nothint: They all knew that 25,000,00 W, of taxes had been taken off tint' the war. .Would any one say then, after that, that it was not possible to raise two or three millions without raising the price of necessary articles of consumption, and with far less pressure on the country than must result from the income tax?—(Hear, hear.) The second ground urged why they should assent to this tax was the commutation of the taxes which the Right Hon. Gentleman had mentioned. The Right Hon. Gentleman pro= posed a general revision of the import duties of this country ; he (Mr. C. Wood) would not now revert to the imputations cast on those unfortunate duties last year—(Hear)—when, if any Hon. Member attempted to revert to them, a universal titter was their only reception from the other side, a d a broad laugh al ways met them.—( Hear.) Now, he was gaite ready to ad mit that a revision of the import duties was a good measure-se good in itself, as it might be m a d e su b serv i ent to t h e goo d o f the many. With this view he gave his hearty support to that measure last year ; but he apprehended there could be no doubt, even although the Right Hon. Gentleman might seem to doubt it, that a revision of those, duties might be made sub servient to an immediate increase of the revenue of the country. gdhuttiHeso,na.n i G m e m n e t , l i e i m at a e n in st e n re u a l t re o m f r oxi en t u h e e ke ti r e e n a t r ia ) l delcfretahsen Right would ensue. In the list of duties proposed by the Right Hon. G . entleman the other day, t h ere was only one which was a differential duty ; in many articles where the duty was decreased one-half no increase of consumption would follow. If the Right Hon, Gentleman had called on them, and had told them that there was a defficiency of revenue which re quired to be made up, and had asked them to take measures to that end, he (Mr. C. Wood) was sure there would have been no objection made to it by Hon. Members on his side of the House. But how were the main articles dealt with by the Right Hon. Baronet? He remembered, that in the con sideration of the import duties, a table was given in by Mr. Pater, in which it was mentioned that there were 17 articles, from which resulted 94/ per cent, of the whole revenue de rived from the Customs, and which were wholly untouched ex cept in some very trifling degree. Only three of the articles were differential. The article of corn was differential. He would not say more on corn now, than that the mode in which it had been dealt with was utterly insufficient for the exigen cies of the country.—( Hear. ) The next was the article of coffee, and he did think that in his charge the Right Honourable Gentleman had unnecessarily made a sacrifice of duty. The next article was that of timber, and he (Mr. C. Wood) would say that on that article the Government had made a large, a needless, and a wanton reduction of reve nue.—( Cheers.) With regard to timber he must confess that he was at a loss to understand on what grounds such an enormous and such a needless sacrifice of revenue had been in curred ; and certainly the Right lion. Gent, would forgive him for saying that he was very unlucky in his reference to Sir Henry Parnell. The Right lion. Member for Portsmouth stated that in 1821 the course pursued was to approximate the foreign and colonial duties, by raising one and lowering the other. The Right Hon. Gent, had quoted Sir H. Parnell as an authority for the course which he was pursuing for impo sing a nominal duty on colonial timber, and maintaining so great a difference between the duty on colouial and foreign tim ber, that the duty on foreign timber should be 25 times higher than that on colonial timber. The plan which Sir Henry Par nell purposed, however, was, that there should be an uniform duty of 355. on all timber whatever, making no distinction between the two, but at the same time imposing a duty which would give a great increase to the revenue derivable from timber. If they had reduced the duty to 7s. or Bs. upon colonial tim ber, and continued the duty of 30s. upon foreign timber, he believed a large increase of revenue would be obtained. These were the three articles of the great articles of consumption with which the tariff p -oposed to deal, which were differential duties. With sugar they refuse to deal at all, and he could not but express his surprise that the Chancellor of the Exchequer should say that so long as an adequate supply could come from the colonies, there was no reason to deal with it at all.— ( Hear.) He should liketo know what the Right Hon. Gentle man considered an adequate supply. They had been told that the quantity introduced last •year was the largest ever brought into this country; he (Mr. Wood) was rather inclined to *ink that that was not the case, and if they would refer to the Hon. Gentleman the Vice-President of the Board of Trade, he (Mr. Wood) had no doubt that he would bear him out in that opi nion. He remembered last year having a return prepared by the Board of Trade, which showed the actual quantity which had been brought in for home consumpti on during the year 1831, and it appeared that instead of 3,780,900 cwt. being the quantity introduced, it was 4,360,000 cwt., and he believed that a much larg e r qu antity had b een i ntrodueed last year, without reference to population ; but he (M r. W oo d) thought that the best way to co n s ider this question was to deal with it in reference to population, and he thought from that that it would be found that if the supply had been allowed to come in so as to benefit the consumer, the revenue would have been increased some hundreds of thousands of pounds. With wine and fruit also the Right Hon. Gen,lema n did not propose to deal. If in th e p res e n t position of the French Cham bers we were to wait for their reduction of the tariff, he (Mr. C. Wood) thought they should have to wait a long time; heap.. prehended the sound principle was not to wait for that.— ( Hear.) If the duty was taken off here, they might de pend upon it that, by some way or other, our goods would be taken into that country. On this subject no better au thority could be quoted than the name of him who had been so often mentioned in the course of this debate, and always with respect and reverence—he alluded to M r . Deacon Huine.—(Hear, hear.) His opinion was th a t th ey should always give the f re est admission of other goods into this country, and leave other countries to take advantage of it as they thought fit, and the result would be a general mutual interchange of goods. He would not go over the general principle on which the proposed tariff . seemed to be f oun d e d, but he could not h e lp re f err i ng to t h e =policy of establishing differential duties. He had certainly been much surprised on running his eye over the tariff to see these duties introduced to such an extent. He would admit the clearness with which the Right Hon. Gentleman had entered into many questions ; he admired the soundness and clearness displayed by the Right Hon. Gentleman in enlarging upon the Cern-laws, and his only wonder was, that with such principles, the Right Hon. Baronet could stop wh ere h e did . •-( H ear, hear.)" He could not help thinking that the tariff ptoposed by the Right lion. Baronet had been laid on the table of the House without due consideration. With respect, indeed, to the import of foreign cattle, he quite agreed with the Right Hon. Gentleman that the alarms on that score were un foueded. But with that exception, and he would add the ar • tick of coffee, he knew of none from which the du y war re duced so as to lessen the price to the consumer.—( Hear. ) The income tax was proposed to maintain monopoly. So far as the revenue of the country was concerned, he was of opinion that it could be made up from other sources far less odious and unjust than income. So far as the commutation of teases went, he saw nothing in the mode in which the impost duties were dealt with which should induce tile House to submit to such a tax as the one now proposed. He knew not that anything which had been said could tend to remove the odious and in quisitorial nature of this tax. He would c onc l u d e w i t h a pas • sage fre m Mr. Fox, delivered in 1798, against this tax. That eminent statesman said—" The m oment the State required a i great supply, I will grant t ; but let me as k , i f i t is necessary that the State should require so great an injustice?' An HON. Meareele observed across the table that that was in 1806. Mr. C. WOOD said it was not so. He had already alluded to the circumstances of )806, when there was a great conti nental war, and when the feelings and opinions of the country went with that tax, in order that the honour, nay, the existence of the country might be maintained. Mr. SCA RLETT thought that those who paid an income tax would contribute a much less amount than if they were taxed in a more indirect manner. He denied that no necessity had arisen to justify the imposition of such a tax. There was such a necessity, but it had not arisen through any fault of the present Government, but through the mismanagement of the party who had been in power for the last ten years. Mr. POULETT SCROPE want e d a de fi n ition of the term income tax"—what the incomes were, and on which this tax was to he levied. He would take the instance of an individual in a town who kept a number of cows for the purpose of sup plying the inhabitants with milk. Was such an individual, he wanted to know, to be taxed on the gross amount of the profits thus derived, or did the Right Hon. Baronet propose to make allowance for the annual loss arising from the necessity of re placing stock ? He wished to be i n f ormed on this matter by the Right Hon. Baronet. Sir R. PEEL said he meant to adopt the general principle of the Bill introduced on this subject by Lord Henry Petty, now Marquis of Lansdowne, when Chancellor of the Exchequer in the administration of Lords Grey and Grenville in 1806. If the Hon. Gentleman would refer to that Act he would find provisions of the most minute nature on all the matters to which he referred. The information contained in that Ac., the Hon. Gentleman would find to be much more satisfactory than it was in his ( Sir R. Peel's) power to give him. Mr. P. SCROPE was apprehensive that, if he referred to the Act, he might not be able to comprehend its provisions as laid down. He had referred to the case of annual loss incurred in keeping up stock. He wished to know if a person engaged in the trade he had referred to would have any allowance made him for the expenses incurred in other respects in his business? Sir ROBERT PEEL said the Honourable Gentleman would find all those cases provided for in the Act already re ferred to. Mr. P. SCROPE went on to say that if they applied the principle of compensation in the case of other perishable commodities, why not apply it in that of manufactures, inas much as expense uas annually incurred in the repair of ma chinery. In the case of ship-owners, would the revenue de rived from all the ships possessed by any . one owner, or would they make allowance for the expense arising from the necessity of keeping up a stock of vessels to meet any .urgency in the trade,? In like manner, in the case of income derived from houses, would not some deduction be made for the expense arising from repairs? If such were the case, he asked would they not apply the same rule in the case of incomes derived from professions, which were by no means incomes of a per manent character ? To a property tax, as distinguished from an income, he had no objection, if occasion required the im position of such a tax. A tax on real property was a ju s t im post, in his mind, and from stating that opinion he would not shrink.—( Hear, hear.) He would not enter now into the question as to whether the present occasion called for the imposition of an income tax or not. To tax a perishable income to the same amount as permanent property was to prevent outlay in the pursuits of industry, to divert it into unproductive channels, or to drive capital out of the country. He, therefore, asked, whether the Right Hon. Baronet intended to draw any distinction between perishable and permanent incomes ? Mr. WILLIAMS said, though he disapproved of the tax generally, yet he must say, that in preparing it the Government had taken a bold and manly mode of meeting the difficulties of the country. Looking at the mismanagement of the finances of the country for a great number of years, it ought to fill any man with alarm. During the last seven years and a half, from the 10th of October, 1834. to the 2 1 st of January, 1842 , t h ere had been no les s than 169,000,0001. of deficiency bills bor rowed of the Bank of England, the interest of which was 24,000,0001., or nearly half of the whole revenue. On the sth of January in the present year, he found that there was only 3,600,000/., in the Exchequer to meet the amount of the interest on the debt, 8,900,0001., due on that day. This was a circumstance of fearful importance, that there should not have been in the Exchequer more than one third of the amount required for the interest of the debt, inde pendent of the other dersands for the support of the army and navy. He was prepared to say that whatever sacrifice was re quired to be made to relieve the country from its dangerous position, ought to be made.—( Hear, hear.) The question was, how the deficiency was to be made up. Ho found that from 1834 to 1840 there was a permanent addition to the debt of 33,900,0001., the interest on which was 1,650,0001. • they had a year, and during this period been holding out inducements to convert the debt of the country into permanent annuities. During the short session of last year he had intimated to the Government that if they compelled the collectors of the taxes to pay into the Exchequer the gross amount of the revenue, they would find that a sum of 4,200,000/. was required to pay the col lectors. He then pointed out that the present cost of the collection of the revenue was a vast deal too great ; he found that it was constantly increasing ; he pointed out that in 1806 the cost of the collection of the revenue, which then amounted to 58,000,0001., was only 2,790.000/., or 43. per cent. en the gross amount collected. In 1840 the amount of the {eve MARC El 22, 1842 nue was 51,800,000/., and the cost of collect ing,it was 4,280,0001., or more than eight per cent. on the gross amount. In 1806 the revenue was more than six millions greater than in 1840, 'set the coll ec ti on o f i t i n 1 8 40 amounte d to more than a mil lion and a half th an i n 1806. Wh at was t h e necess i ty o f paying so much tnore now than at that period? The Right Hon. Baronet had intimated that the revenue officers were then to some extent pa:d by fees, but then it should be re collected that th ey were pa i d i n paper money, depreciated, ae:etttniss to the auth or it y o f t h e Ri g h t H on. B aronet ( Si r J . Graham), nit Iles , . than 35 per cent. Looking at the mer chants, manufacturers, 'shopkeepers, and tradesmen of all de scriptions, he contended that the. condition of all these classes had materially deteriorated. The condition of his constituents ?Vas deteriorated to the extent of 60 per cent. The property Invanted in manufactures was depreciated in value. The Hon. Member for Salford had stated that a building for a manu factory which coat 120,0001. h a d b een so ld f or l ess t h an 30,0001. Why should the; throw the weight of the taxes on this suffering portion of the community ? He thought the chief burden ought to be borne b y those who h a d o bt a i ne d f or themselves peculiar privileges, the landholdera, the West India tnerionoliats, as a sort of co-operators with the landholders, and those Who derived their incomes from the public revenue of the country. He ..ot 041 propose that, instead of imposing this tax, they should make a dc. action. not only from the incomes of thane who occupied the Treasury benches, but he would go far above them, and descend to a certain extent below them, and compel them to make a sacrifice, as well as the other classes of the community. He then read an extract from the pamphlet of the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir J. Gesharn), advising th e farmers to submit to a free trade in corn, but with a condition that there should Ise a remission of other monopolies, and a large reduction of taaation, as the operation of Mr. Peel's Bill had given a bonus to particular classes of 311 per cent. lie (Mr. Williams) was thus fortified by the authority of the Right Hon. Baronet, now one of her Majesty's Government. But much less than a tax of 30 per cent., or the incomes de rived from land or from the public Exchequer would free the country from its ernharressments. It would be a great service to the Government if the Right Hon. Baronet would instil this pamphlet into them; but he was afraid the Right Hon. Baronet had outlived those excellent principles. The Right lion. Baronet at the head of the Government declined the other night to state the probable amount of the revenue on corn. He (Mr. W.) found it estimated in theßanlser's Circular at 2,000,0001., which he thought t oo high ; still i t would give it ems in idea of it. B u t h e wa s now go i ng to point out some in which retrenchment might be profitably practised. Tho dead weight amounted to 4,640,0001., the pensions charged on the Consolidated Fund 620,000/., while in 1829 the latter were but 320,000/. He was astonished that so great an increase should have been permitted in time of peace. Then let the Right Hon. Baronet do one act of justice—let him make real property subject to the probate duty that personal property paid; let him also reduce the expenditure and the scale of 1836, and he would have 4,000,000/. Let the property of such men as the Duke of Cleveland, the Duke of Norfolk, and the Marquis of Hertford, be not subject to the tax that was imposed upon the inheritance of the 50/. accumulated by the industry and penury of the hard working man. A property tax he we uld support to three times the present sum if it were necessary ; but for the reasons he and other Hon. Gentlemen had that night stated, he would oppose an income tax.—( Cries of Question," amidst which the Hon. Gentleman sat down rather abruptly. ) Sir G. GREY said, the Hon. Gentlemen opposite seemed anxious to come to a division. At this he was not surprised; but he was surprised that, on a question of such great import ance, that on a question so vitally affecting the interests of at least two kingdoms of the empire—England and Scotland— such remarkable silence should prevail amongst those who were anxious to testify, by their votes, the confidence they felt in the measure of the Right Hon. Baronet—( Loud cheers from the Ministerial side)—could testify that confidence, by their votes, while they shrunk from the obloquy—(Loud cries of " Bear, hear," on the Opposition benches)—and the unpopularity of arguing the measure proposed, or of venturing to state in that House that the measure would be acceptable to the constituents which returned them to Parliament.—(Cheers.) But while that remarkable silence had been broken, he believed only by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, the Member for Horsham— (No, no, on the Ministerial benches)—he did not mean to allude to Hon. Members on the Treasury benches, but to those who sat behind them ; and he believed that almost the only one of those Hon. Members who hail addressed the House that evening, was'ctlie Hon. Member for Horsham, who had ex pressed his willingness to make a sacrifice of his personal in terest for the public good. —(Laughter. ) Another Hon. Gentleman, the worthy Alderman (Alderman Thompson), said, that he was ready to adopt the proposal of the Right Hon. Baronet, and that our war in Affghanistan, and our commercial embarrassments justified the measure; but when that Hon. Member came to the details of the proposal, he pulled out of his pocket unimpeachable and incontrovertible documents to show the great injustice of the tax in question, and the ine quality with which it would press upon various classes of the community. He knew rot whether the remarkable silence ob served by Hon. Gentlemen opposite was part of the discipline which had been imposed upon them by the Right Hon. Baronet —(Loud cries of " Hear," from the Opposition benches)—who required of them their votes on condition that they should not mar his measures by their speeches.—( Hear, hear.) He per ceived expressions of dissent from that statement; but then he said there ought to be some reason given to the House why, upon a question of the greatest importance brought before it since the Reform Act, Hon. Gentlemen who had recently been so profuse in their expressions of confidence in the Right Hon. Baronet, and in their assurances that the measures he would propose to Parliament would be entirely acceptable to their constituents, would not then get up and say they were sure that. tile measures he had proposed were of the character which they had led their constituents to anticipate.—( Hear, hear.) He was glad to see the Right Hon. Gentleman oppo site reading " Hansard," and he hoped the Hon. Gentleman had well studied the debate which had taken place in 1816 with regard to a repeal of the income tax. That might, indeed, account in some measure for their silence upon the present oc casion. They would find ample evidence that the Right Honourable Baronet was now acting in perfect con sistency with his conduct at that time. They would find ' that he had voted in support of the income tax which the Go vernment itself had pledged itself should last only during the continuance of the war. The country at that time smarting under the infliction of the tax—au infliction which they had borne with heroic fortitude so long as a necessity for it existed in the mighty struggle in which this country was then engaged —not for any point of honour, or any object of conquest, but for the national existence—the country, after having submitted to the income tax, and continued the war for years, which they brought at length to a happy and glorious termination in the fields of Waterloo, could bear that tax no longer, and, in spite of the Government of the day, supported by the Right Hon. Baronet, they declared that it was a tax which should be re served exclusively for time of war—not a war in Affghanistan, but a European war ; for it was in that sense by every one who had read the history of the last half century that it was named a war tax. Other taxes to the amount of many millions had since been repealed ; arid the Right lion. Baronet now came forward with the proposal of an income tax, in order to enable him to place our finances i n a p ro p er and fitting condition.— (Cheers front the Ministerial benches.) He would give Hon. Gentlemen the benefit of that cheer; he was happy to find that they had reserved their votes for their cheers. — ( Hear, hear.) No one was more ready to admit than he was that the deficiencies which now existed in the revenue to meet the necessary expenditure of the country ought to be supplied ; and he did not stand there to say that no additional taxes should be imposed. He did not even say that if the measures proposed by her Nlajesty's late Government were now to be adopted there would be no necessity to impose fresh taxes in order to mace up the financial deficiency. But the ques tion was, whether a tax which had been denounced in 1816 as the most odious, the most inquisitorial and intolerable that human ingenuity could devise—a tax which the country then only submitted to in consequence of the circumstances in which we were placed—the que s ti on was , w h et h er that was a tax to which they should have recourse in con sequence of a deficiency in the revenue, which the Right Honourable Baronet himself admitted to be but temporary ? He regretted that he did not then see in his place the Right lion. Gentleman the Member for Montgomeryshire (Mr. C. Wynn), who had been one of the most active denouncers of the income tax in ISI6, and who had taunted the Chancellor of the Exchequer of that day with speaking of the possibility of exaggerating the evils of such a tax. He believed it was the want of experience of the tax on the part of the present gene ration which induced the Right lion. Baronet to presume to call upon the House to agree to such a proposal ; and strong as he was in the support of a party so recently and deeply pledged to him, whatever their own opinions might be, and whatever might be the opinions of their constituents, he had no doubt but that the Right Hon. Baronet would be supported by a large majority. But he felt certain that after experience had made known the nature of the tax—its odious and inquisitorial process, of which the Right Honourable Ba ronet was so slow to tell them a process which he had endeavoured to attribute to Lord Grenville and Lord Lansdowne—a process which would be absolutely necessary in order to entitle him to extract the tax from the pockets of the people—he was certain that after a short experience the same feeling against the tax would be engendered which had existed in 1816, and that there would before long be a unanimous and indignant demand for its abolition. What were the arguments used in 1816 to induco the House to consent to a continuance of the tax ? Why, they were precisely the same arguments whic were addressed to the House in order to induce them to vote for a similar measure. The House was told, as now that the tax was not to be continued, anti that if it were not imposed, they should tax the articles of consumption used by the poorer classes, and impose burdens on the peopla more odious than the tax com plained of ; but at that time the country had expe rience of the tax, and they unhesitatingly adopted in preference a tax upon the consumption of the country. When the House was told at that time that the tax should be but temporary, and should be levied in a less odious manner, they turned a deaf ear to the promise, because they felt confident that no essential ' modification could take place in the machinery of the Bill if the tax was to produce the amount of revenue which the Minis- ters of that day anticipated from it. Did any one believe that any modification could now be made in the machinery by which the tax was to be extracted from the people? Did any one be lieve that it would be divested of that odious and inquisitorial character which had its pressure so much felt on former occa sions, and which the people only submitted to, because they were ready to make any sacrifice when the national honour and glory were concerned, and the name and power of England were in question, but which they would not submit to when any other means were offered of meeting the demands of the country and supply;ng the means of providing for its expenditure ? As to the statement that it was proposed to levy the present tax only for a limited period, he would remind the House, that the statement had been formerly made, and the House did not however, consent to its adoption. Then they were to have Commissioners and other salaried officers, which he was sur- prised to find did not call up the Hon. 31ember for Lincoln (Colo nel Sibthorp). It was important to know that those Corn mi sioners were to be appointed by the Right Hon. Baronet. Whenever it might hereafter be proposed that the tax should be repealed they would again he told that it was not advisable to tax articles of consumption to the injury of the poorer classes—they would be told that machinery for the tax already existed, and that new machinery should be created for raising any other tax ; and then, although he did not think that would be an easy task after an experience of the measure had been obtained, to continue to impose it ; he confessed that he saw no security in the general odium which the tax would create, that - it would not be permanent if they were now to adopt it.—(Hear, hear.) It was not then his intention to go into any figures with regard to the revenue and the expenditure of the country, as the House had already ample details submitted to its consideration upon that part of the question ; and as it had been placed before them with more ability than he could pretend to. The ground upon which he stood was, that no reaso n had yet been shown for the imposition of such a tax—the ground upon which he went was, that at the termic a ti on of the late war the country had, with one voice, demanded that the income tax should be removed. He admitted that other taxes would be now necessary ; but when he spoke of th at ne cessity, and when Hon. Gentlemen opposite cheered any allu sion to the causes which had created the financial deficiency, he could not acquit them of an approval of the se s t eps wh i ch had led to that deficiency. Did not Hon. Gentlemen oosite know that if the measures proposed last year by the late Go vernment had been adopted—( Hear, hear, and derisive cheers from the Ministerial Benches)—could Hon. Gentlemen oppo site show that if the measures of the late Government had been adopted, the same deficiency which new exists, would have existed, and that it would be found necessary to impose an income tax of 4,000 ,000/. a-year ?—( Hear. ) After the repetition of the speeches—th e unanswere d speeches --and, as far as could be judged from the silence of Hon. Gen l'_~7 tlemen opposite, the unanswerable speeches of Hon. Gentlemen on his side of the House—he could hardly think it necessary for him to proceed, but ho would not on that occasion give a silent vote. —( Cheers and counter-cheers.) If Hon. Gentle men opposite did not think those speeches unanswerable he hoped they would favour the House with arguments and figures to show that if the measures proposed last year had been passed, they should now be obliged to have recourse to an income tax to supply a deficiency of 4,000,0091.—( Cheers.) That tax had been denounced by men of the greatest eminence, and by nearly every constit uenc y i n t h e ki ng d om i n 1816, as the most inqui• slim:al, the most oppressive, and the most intolerable that hu man ingenuity could devise.—(Cheers.) He did not wish to go farther into the subject, feeling that the arguments used by his side of the House had exhausted the subject.—( Cheers anti counter-cheers.) But w h en h e f oun d t h e House was about to go to a sdivision, and that Ho noura bl e G ent l emen opposite were adhering to the "silent sytsem," he thought it necessary ti e debate should not termi na t e w i.h out hearing what Hon. Gentlemen opposite had to • say.—( Hear, hear.) If Hon. Gentlemen referred to the debate of 1816, they would find that night after night for months before the then (;hancellor of the Exchequer brought forward his propositi on , th e su bj ect had been discussed on the presentation of the petitions, and some of the best speeches had been made on such occasions. But Hon. Gentlemen should recollect that that rule being altered, and, as he thought, very wisely altered, they should expect to have more time consumed in the debates no w , an d t h ey should not exhibit such impatience to come to a divisi on .—( H ear, hear.) He thought that the public inter es t s requ i red that more time should be now spent in debates. For his own part he had no indisposition to go to an immediate vote, if theparty opposite were determined to adhere to the " silent system." And he had no doubt that when they came to a division, the Right Hon. Baronet would have a large majority ; and he only hoped that—if the tax were imposed, and that, while he trusted if it were necessary, the people would submit to it—they were not throwing away that great weapon from any struggle in which they may he engaged in an European war.—( Cheers. ) Colonel SIBTHORP rose amidst loud cries of "Divide, di vide," and :" Oh, oh." He said he would not trouble the House, were it not for the allusion, which had been made to him by the Right Hon. Baronet who had . ust sat down, though he knew not for what reason he alluded to him.—(Laughter.) The Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) was, he was glad to say, placed in the responsible position which he occupied by the united voice of his country. When lie heard the Right Hon. Baronet attacked for the measure he proposed to augment the finances of the country, he was attacked for his endeavour to re. trim them from the position in which they were placed by the misconduct and delinquency of the party opposite.—(Loud cheers and " Oh, oh.") It is true he resorted to extreme measures to meet the extreme delinquencies of the party opposite.—(Cheers and "Oh, oh.") He saw the Noble Lord, the late Secretary for Foreign Affairs, who seemed to stand behind the two sinking pil lars on his side—(Loud laughter)—smarting under the loss of power, place, and salary,—(Renewed laughter.) His Right Hon. Friend (Sir R. Peel) did not act like the Noble Lord. He was never obliged to have recourse to a tail seaming a head.—(Loud laughter.) No. That independent, honest, and manly man— (Laughter)—would scorn to have recourse to such attempts. He was a tower of strength, and he would be supported.— (Laughter.) He was called on to make these observations in consequence of what had fallen from the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir G. Grey), but as lie was on his legs he could not avoid saying that his Right Hon. Friend (Sir Robert Peel) would have his humble but sincere support.—(Cries of" Hear," and " Divide.") Mr. 13LEWITT moved that the Chairman report progress, and ask leave to sit again.—(" Oh, oh," and " Divide, divide.") The Gallery was then ordered to be cleared for a Division, on the motion of the Hon. Member, when Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, that as there were many Gentle men who wished to continue the debate, he hoped it would not be interrupted. He trusted that there would be no indisposition on the part of the Committee to listen to any Hon. Gentleman who wished to speak--(Hear.) But before they proceeded any further he wished to ask a question with regard to a notice of motion given by an Hon. Member, as to an amendment of the resolution. A question was to be asked, whetherany excep tion from the tax was to be made fu favour of persons having ter minable annuities, or incomes from trades and professions': And that question could only be put by taking away the first part of the resolution. He should, therefore, like to know the opinion of the Chairman, whether, supposing the intentions of the Right Hon. Baronet were carried, it would be competent to move a re solution of that description? Mr. GREENE was understood to say that he must express his opinion that it would be contrary to the rules to omit words of the resolution, and he apprehended it would not be competent to move such a resolution as the Noble Lord alluded to in a Committee of Ways and Meant, but that it would in a Committee on the Bill. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said he was then to understand that if the Resolutions before the Committee were carried, it would not be competent to move the resolution in a Committee of Ways and Means, but that it would in Committee on the Bill. Mr. BLEWITT said he would persevere in his motion, as he be lieved the measure would press on the country in the most despotic and aristocratic manner. The gallery was then cleared for a division, but no division took place. On our entrance we found Sir It. PEEL stating that the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir G. Grey) had said that he was unwilling to travel over the field which had been already so much beaten, and, as far as he was concerned, he was perfectly ready to go on with the discussion. He trusted that the House would reject the motion Lord J. RUSSELL said he had no wish to prolong the debate, but if the Hon. Gentleman persisted in dividing the House, he would think it his duty to vote against an adjournment. Mr. PROTHEROE said it was stated that this proceeding was one for which there was a precedent in former Parliaments. He begged to ask the Hon. Gentleman who proposed the adjournment whether he proposed it for the purpose of securing further discus sion, or merely to mark his dissent from the measure of the Right non. Gentleman ? If it was for the latter purpose, he could not give him his support . If it was for the purpose of securing fur ther discussion, he should submit to him that it was too early to propose an adjournment.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. BLEWITT said he should imitate the prudence of the Right Hon. Baronet, and decline to answer the questiou,—(Great laughter.) Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House divided, when there appeared, For the motion Against it Majority against the motion Immediately after the division was over, and before the gallery was opened, Dr. BOW RING (as we understood) moved that the Chairman do report progress. On our readmission to the gallery, we found— Mr. BLEWITT on his legs. He said that the Right Honourable Baronet, the Member for Tamworth, had turned out the late Ministry, and had taken five months to deliberate on the propositions which he should make ! with regard to taxation. —(Cries of " Oh :" from the Ministerial Benches, answered by vehement cheering from the Opposition Benches.) Yes! the Right. Hon. Baronet had taken five months to deliberate on his proposition—(Continued Opposition cheers)—and he had stated them to the House on Friday week last.—(Loud cheers.) It was only on Friday last that he had stated to the House the machinery by which he proposed to carry his plan of taxation into effect, and now he refused to give the House time to deliberate on the proposition, or the country time to consider it.—(Loud cheers.) The Right Hon. Baronet had taken five or six mouths and the House was to have no time at all.—(Vehement cheering.) Such conduct was not fair either to the House or to the country. Capt. BERKELEY had voted against the motion for adjourn ment because he considered it was not fair to stop the discussion at that early hour, but he must say that he thought there was equally as much faction in a dead silence—(Loud cheers)—and in the de termination to come to a vote without any attempt at answering the vt ry forcible speech of the Right Honourable Baronet on his (Cap. UM Berkeley's) side of the House, he saw quite as much evidence 01 faction as in voting for an early adjournment.—(Loud cheers.) Sir GEORGE GREY said that reference had been made to what had fallen from hid in the course of the discussion, as to the argu ments on his (Sir G. Grey's) side of the House being exhausted. He had not for a moment meant to say—indeed it would have been presumption in him to have done so—he had not for a moment meant to say that no arguments could be urged against the measure: what lie had meant to say was, that after the several speeches which he had heard, in which the arguments against the measure had been urged with great ability, arid to which he had heard scarcely any attempt at reply—(Cheers)—he should not fatigue the House by entering into any lengthened arguments on points which had already been discussed. He had never had the presumption to say that Hon. Members were to be precluded from addressing the House on subjects which were so intereseing both to themselves and their constituents. On the contrary, his own opinion was the debate ought to be protracted—(Cheers)—and he had voted against the motion which had just been negatived, merely because he saw nu reason why the debate should not be continued until the usual hour for adjournment.—(Cheers,) Mr. FOX MAULE said he undoubtedly voted in the minority; and he gave his vote, not with respect to any discussion that had taken place on that motion, but because he wished to see the vote upon these resolutions determinately delayed. (Loud cheers-) He had made an appeal to the Bight Ho. nourable Baronet before that discussion was opened ; that night he (Mr. Fox Maule) told him that a vast number of the people of his (Mr. Mauler') country had not even the know ledge that these resolutions had been proposed; and it was upon this ground that he (Mr. F. Maule) was found in the minority. It was on this ground that he intended, by all legitimate grounds its his power, to prevent the vote.—(Loud cheers.) Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, but no division took place. On our return to the gallery we found Mr. VERNON S MIT II addressing the House. He said that he never remembered a great question like the present one on which all the Cabinet Ministers remained silent. lie must say that they had treated this question with contempt to impose so mighty a tax on the people of this country with so little argument in its favour, for which he would not except the very able speech of the Eight Hon. Baronet, the Member for Tainworth, because he had declined to enter into any argument i❑ behalf of the machinery of raising the tax. He must say that this question had not been debated in the manner it ought to have been. He was not endeavouring to offer a factious opposition, but he would say that it was au intolerable mode of proceeding, and one to which they ought not to submit, however large the majority, in forcing such a measure through the House without debate. He confessed he was perfectly astonished that the Bight Hon. Baronet who had usually shown such deference ainl courtesy to the House of Commons at the course he had taken on that occasion. It was for that reason he (Mr. V. Smith) was found in the minority, and voting for the adjournment, and not for the purpose of delaying indefinitely the debate on that question, which he hoped to see properly debated in the face of that House and the face of the country. Sir J. GRAHAM, who spoke in an extremely low tone of voice, said, that the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down, had attacked the Cabinet Ministers for their silence on that occasion, but the Hon. Gentleman seemed not to recollect the speech of the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who went fully into the question. He was quite surprised that no Cabinet Minister had spoken in this debate. Now, he could remind the House and the country, that in the early part of that evening an announcement had been made of a determined opposition on the other side of the House. The House had been informed that night by the Noble Lord, that he should take the opinion of the House on these reso. lutions, and that it was his intention, when the Bill founded on those resolutions was brought in, to divide the House on the first reading of it. On the second reading of the Bill, he, there fore, anticipated ample discussion.—(Loud cheering.) It was for the public convenience that no unnecessary delay should take place on that preliminary question. They did not wish to avoid discussion ; on the contrary, they were willing fully to er.ter into it, but on the present occasion this was only the intro. duction of the preliminary measure, when such a course of opposi tion—(rhe rest of the sentence was lost in the loud cheers that fol. lowed on the Ministerial side of the House.) Sir B. HALL said he agreed in what had fallen from the Right Hon. Baronet who had spoken last, that it was necessary to come to a resolution on that subject; but when there was so much op position in that House and the country ; when they were placed in that situation, as stated by the Speaker—when these resolutions should be adopteii, viz., that it was not possible for the people to petition against the measure—the position in which they were placed by the Right Hon. Baronet at the head Lf her Majesty's Government—who acted wisely, he would say, in not answering questions as to the details of the questions brought forward, and adhered to strict silence, and refusing to declare to the country what his views were, and only a few days had elapsed since that statement had been made ; and in one week they wore called upon to determine as to this tax, which would press heavily on all classes, and which, as regarded many, was most obnoxious—he thought the least they could expect from the Government was, that time should be given for the country to consider that great proposition ; to consider whether it was necessary that a tax of this kind should be imposed on the country. He did think it would have been a fair course towards that House and the country, if the Right Hon. Baronet had stated his propositions, and given time to the House and the country till after Easter, to consider what those proPosi. tions were. Ile could only say that he desired to offer no factious -~ or vexatious opposition ; but he did think that, as a question of the greatest importance that could be discussed in the House of Commons, time should be given to the House to determine it greatest was broughtimportance—of beforeptehtehhhornoinnsgtihthue. b o e f fo h r h e e ought h to take their e u n p t o s i L f i t ' , s r V T- i n :J i l t :as ' t h r at k t they could pre vent House on the subject—and he thought they i t o u u n g i h t y t stand according to the forms of thgeh,Heotithisee,cosount i l r ' o E l E )ors L it w io a n s s. surprised to hear theYr aerh'arogpel the carrying of this vote, to t o judgesir ROBERTof these against him by Hon. Gentlemen on the opposite side of the i for acting uncourteously—it was difficult f or h i m to know how act—sometimes he was charged with spe a ki ng too much, and somteo times he was charged with want ofcourtesy for not speaking at all. lie had spoken for three hours and a half the other night, and en. deavoured to tievelope the plan of her Majesty's Government as well as he could. Objections were made, and ably made, by the Right Hon. Gentleman the late Chancellor of the Exchequer ; objections were also made by several other Hon. Gentlemen on the opposite side of the House, but he must own, as far as he was con cerned, he had entirely exhausted all he had to say upon the ge neral question and the development of the plan.—(hear, hear.) tie really thought that it was more consistent with true courtesy and respect, under such circumstances, to maintain silence (meaning at the same time no personal discourtesy) rather than make a speech for an hour and a half or two hours, repeating what he had already said.—(Cheers arid laughter.) The lion. Gentleman said he (Si ' Robert Peel) had not vindicated the machinery of the measure—he had only explained the general machinery, and he embraced those principles in the resolutions he submitted to the House. I lowever, he had strong reasons now to believe that what the country wished to see was, that the measure might be reduced to a tangible form. It was impossible for him, at any rate, to vindicate the machinery till it was put in a proper train. Ile hoped, however, that the country would recollect that the question upon which the House had just divided was put soon after hallSpast eleven o'clock, when there was no disposition on that side of the House to speak further upon the question. His Right lion. Friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer and himself (Sir Robert Peel) had exhausted what they had to say. Other Gen tlemen had manifested no disposition to rise ;—the people of the country were watching their proceedings in that House with in tense interest, and there should be no unnecessary delay.—(Year, hear.) He could only say, that at half-past seven o'clock this evening he counted the Members on that (the Opposition) side of the House, arid then there were only 23 Members on them (Hear, hear)—and he should also say there were not many more upon his side of the House.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) Sir GEORGE GREY said it appeared a remarkable coincidence that the Right Hun. Baronet should have taken the trouble to count the House when there were so few Members on both sides.—(Laughter.) Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that after what had fallen from the Right Hen. Baronet, he should say that so long as it ap. pearcd there were representatives of constituencies anxious to ad. dress the House, he (Lord John Russell) would not join in putting an end to the discussion ; but when the honourable Gentlemen proposed an adjournment at half-past eleven o'clock, at a time when the debate could have gone on conveniently, he (Lord J. Russell) felt it his duty to oppose it. He thought there had not been enough said upon the subject yet. The purpose and object of going into a Committee of the whole House was to con sider the matter for discussion more maturely. It was only when they began with the ordinary forms of a Bill—when they were about to impose burdens upon the people—that the House of Corn. mons resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House, in order that It should have an opportunity to deliberate seriously upon the question, arid ascertain the opinions of their constituencies. For that reason he should feel it his dirty to take the sense of the house upon those preliminary points; therefore, without any in tention of giving unnecessary delay, whenever a question was put, either with the Chairman (Mr. Greene), or the Speaker in the Chair, when he (Lord J. Russell) was called on to pronounce " Aye" or " No," to the proposition, he should feel himself fully at liberty to take the sense of the House upon the question.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. BROTHERTON said the motion of the Hon. Member (Mr. Blewitt) was made without any consultation with the Members upon that side of the House. Lord WORSLEY disavowed any intention to give a factious or unnecessary opposition to the Ministerial mea'ure,but he thought it was due to the constituencies of the country to give them more time to consider the question. He thought he should not be considered guilty of factious opposition if he expressed his opinion that the Government should consent to put off the measure till after Easter, so that the country might have time to examine it thoroughly, and form a judgment upon it. He could assure the House that this was a subject of great importance to the agricultural districts, and he hoped her Majesty's Government would consent to adjourn the consideration of it till some future period.—(Divide.) Mr. BLEWITT said the Hon. Member for Salford had accused him of bringing forward a measure without the concert of his party; he begged to say that he stood there as an independent Member of Parliament—(oh, oh, and ironical cheers ftom the Ministerial benches)—and every motion which he brought forward was without reference to one party or the other.—( Divide, divide.) Mr. DUNCOMBE said he thought the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government would save himself and the country a good deal of trouble if he would at once adjourn. As for the word "factious" as it had been applied, he (Mr. Du incombe) did not know what it meant, but in every case, when they op. posed her Majesty's Government, they were called factious (Hear, hear.) He highly deprecated the precipitancy of the Go. vernment, and the country considered it most indecent. He had been called on by his constituents to endeavour to defeat this mea. sure by every constitutional means, and such he was sure was the desire of many other constituencies, and this would be manifested after Easter, as soon as the people understood the matter.—(" No, no.") He was sure that the more the question was understood, the more it would be opposed. It was for this reason that her Majesty's Government wished to press this measure through the House ; and so long as an Adjournment was moved, he should vote in favour of it, Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the Committee divided, when there appeared— For the motion el Against it Majority against the motion — 151) On the gallery being re-oisened, Mr. 'l'. DUNCOMBE was on his legs. He said that the number for the adjournment on the former division was 51, on this division Lt was 91 ; the number had, therefore, consequently increased, and he hoped that the Right Hon baronet would now consent to give the House end the country the time they required ; they required it that thcmeasure might be folly discussed. There were four or fire Gentlemen near him who were anxious to address the Committee on this resolution, but he did not ask for the delay on that account; it was that the subject might receive a full deliberation. If the country their should be in favour of the principle of an incense tax, it would give its consent to it, with its eyes open—((hear, hear)—if not, the people would have at least an opportunity of making up their minds on the question. He would say again that lion. Gentlemen opposite would snake a great mistake if they should ask the 'louse to agree to this resolution this evening. Ile therefore begged leave to move that the Chairman do report progress and ask leave to sit again. —(Cries of" Divide, divide.") Sir R. PEEL said-1 will not voluntarily be a party to the post ponement of this resolution—(Hear, hear)—any longer.—( Cheers.) I may not be able in resist the obstructions which may be thrown in the way of the Honse, but I will not voluntarily be a party to a postponement of the resolution, because I think the House is ler a position to pronounce an opinion upon this preliminary step, If the sense of the country should be against the measure proposed, that sense may be effectually manifested against it in future stages of the measure. The Noble Lord opposite has given notice of his intentions to take the sense of the House on several stages of the Bill—on the first, second, arid third readings. The first of these stages cannot possibly be proceeded with till after Easter, and the Bill itself cannot be produced till after,this preliminary resolution is agreed :to. I confidently believe that the sense of the country will be in favour of the Bill.—(Cheers.) There may be some difficulty attending the proposition of the resolution and the passing the Bill, but I believe that the country will be willing to bear those burdens which I believe are necessary to the mainte. uance of public credit and the national honour. I have a confident trust, also, that the proceedings of this night will not disincline them to that feeling.—(Cheers.) I place full reliance on the sense of the country, and I believe I do not mistake it, when I say that 1 think it will deprecate the course now taken. It is my inten. time therefore, if I am prevented from inrceeedlng now with this resolution, to fix the very earliest day which I can fix, which is tire first day of Supply, Wednesday next, when I shall be in my place ready to discharge what I think my duty to the country, in proposing to tire House the further discussion of this measure. I am desirous as soon as possible to make known to the country what are the exemptions, what are the nature of the regulation% and what the machinery for collecting the tax. I carnet have tut opportunity of doing this until the House has assented to the third resolution, and, I believe, it is fitting that this resolution should be discussed at a time of the session when there is a certainty of a full attendance. Therefore, lam anxious to proceed with the preli minarystage now. But, from long experience in public affairs, I know what will be the result of contests of this kind. I voted with the utmost pleasure with the first majority when the motion was merely to put off the present proceeding. The second was on the substantive point, whether or not the resolution was sufficiently dis cussed, and whether the House was content that the proceeding should go on now. On the first division, the Members of the late Government voted with the majority, on the last they retired from the House.—(llear, hear.) Ido not complain of their retirement, for, I take it as an indication that, in the opinion of the la,'e Ad. ministration, we were perfectly justified in the vote, and as far xst the subject had passed, competent to take the sense of the House.--0 (Loud cheers) But knowing the result of contests of this kind when persevered in, I will beg of my Hon. Friend not to press his motion, the sense of the House hats been already manifested, and I am sure that if we show a little patience we shall reap our reward.—(Cheers.) Therefore I will not oppose the motion of the Hon. Gentleman, against it; but I shall at a sub s e q uent period of the evening more that these proceedings be r esum ed at the earliest possible period, that is, Wednesday next.—(Cheers.) although protest Mr. FOX MA UEE said that the Right Hon. Baronet observed with a sort of self-sufficient complacency, that the opinion of the country was on his side. What grounds had he for saying so P Did he see the opinions of the newspapers, which were the exposi— tors of the opinions of the country ?—(Herr, hear.) For his part,: so far as ire could collect public opinion he (Mr. Fox Mauler knew it was decidedly against the Right Hon. Baronet.—(Hear, hear, And great interruption, which was renewed amidst laughter and Arles of " u esti o ," at every new attempt the Right Hen. Gentleman mati'e to speak.) He would content himself with saying that he did .nct . fear to meet the Right Ilon. Baronet on the area of truistic opinion. Sir T. ACLAND saint that it appeared from the speech CE the Right lion, Gentleman that the object of these motions wa delay and not discussion. The Hon. Gentlemen opposite wished% for delay without discussion, in order to give their friends out of doors the advantage of determining on the measure before they knew its details.—(lllinisterial cheers.) Ile had divided witch the majority on the last divisions, believing, that by so doing, he was showing to the country the nature of the opposition which had sprung up within the last few days. It was his (Sir Thomas Acland's) wish that the measure should go before the public for their decision in a complete state. It could not do so unless tine resolution was passed before the recess. He hoped this kind of warfare with which old Members wove but too familiar would not be continued, but as Hon. Members opposite could not exercise their invaluable privileges of obstruct- , ing public measures without paying for it the penalty they had to pays for it this night was the waste of an hour and a half of public time. Mr. C. BULLER wiehed to say a few words on what had Wiese front the Right Hon. Baronet and the Hon. Gentleman who had. just sat down. He (Mr. Buller) admitted the impropriety of the' attempt at adjourning at half.past eleven, and had voted against like It had appeared to him afterwards, as twelve o'clock arrived, than it would have been in conformity with the usual course for the House to adjourn.—(Cries of " Oh, oh," from the Ministerial benches, and loud cheers from the Opposition). Why the Right: Honourable Baronet had said before that he did not wish to place any obstruction in the way of Hon. Members who wished to ad. dress tine House ; and it should be recollected that they were in Committee for discussion only one night. There was another ar. gument which would justify him in his opposition to the attempt of the Government to push this question forward to an immediate vote, and that was the ground taken by the Right Hon. Baronet, that he had further revelations to make respectingthe machinery. Why it was the most preposterous thing ever known to propose an income tax one Friday, to develope the plan of machinery another Friday, and then to say that he had further revelations to make, and unless they would give him a further stage of the Bill, to sayhe would not make them, and would hold them (the Opposition) up to the country as preventing him from doing so. He (Mr. B.)would apPeal to the country on that point, and ask who it was that withheld in. formation from the people ? He who relbsed to give all his in formation at once, or those who said they would reflzse to give a vote in the dark.—(Loud cheers.) The Ri ght Hon. Baronet was acting contrary to th e p rece d ent o f a ll hi s predecessors. lie (the Right Hon. Bar o net) m i g ht h ave f o llowed the precedent of Mr. Pitt, who wh ew he first proposed the income tax had detailed all the machinery so clearly that he had no fur t h er explanation to make. (Cheers.) The Eight Hon. Baronet had not been able to make it out at twelve delive ries. It was hard to call on the House to vote without this exp lanation.—(Ch eers.) Sir It. PEEL said he had not said he had any further reretatica Z