The Sun. — London, England, 1842-04-20 00:00:00

prisa..• neasura..' he par' Fas tb 3ill general. t nets': le great 0 osperitti ' , Tong thire l l• Ople; 0 : :ivies of to pre - - at thq wers •, destioi .e6 l istenoe• )laco 5 (Loo, on this n ot 0" manner . .',.., ter • lh ala - • - - eakel of the interference of the Corn-laws with the corn. kt e at f _ n Me. country ; he had no reason to believe that they af ,tore Ir . c ommerce at all. He was sure no man could lament lil i ih'4 .l be did that the commerce and manufactures of the coun -111100 Ibe at all in a state of embarassment; but he believed if R o r ... - .ltvs were repealed to-morrow that not one }ard of cloth bori i tkotind of iron would be sold in any part of Europe, or of the 11 's,4_nvcr which this country could not exercise a control. sOthe nations of Europe had adopted Treasures to encourage i, ( l!,t I , nres; these measures were not to be attributed, as some latZqs to the English Corn-law, but they were to be attributed ili t i r .4X, arople set by this country in the course of the late war, by h io litist and noble exertions, by their power, and the strength /leg exhibited on all occasions. Those who contemplated • Vailettions, and who had been assisted by thsina, thought they to tes well follow the example of our industry and system of Itis,,7e; and they did do so, and have now establ shed for them. isq b elieved that and commerce, and he (the Duke of Welling " ti w t i that we should find that where we had no control, , t 74! We would we should not be able to purchase their corn by %„::'„, bart er ; i t was out of the quest i on, except un d er spec i a l 1 „ - "Pat o „, n. With respect to the commerce and the manufactures hipileOtintry, he must say that if they were in the state which ap s,47) f rom the returns on the the table of the House, that there tts l i . ' i t hing which could be more favourable to the system of the li ti " , s than the state in which those appeared to be. Since ?eat 1828, the period at which this law was enacted, the pro_ 4;_of this country, t h e amount o f th e expor t s f rom t hi s country, 41; 41 l'ed by the account of the official value, would show nearly ,i i ,' 4„ I bes the amount of preceding years. It was true that those 14U sis who produced these manufactures were in great dis. suit l ied he had been much concerned at reading those reports of Itt h ,3 ' i , ito the state of the . handloom weavers, and also the reports s4 i ebnversation between a late Hon. and Noble Friend of his, 'tri•-, t ' in Gentlemen who were lately in this metropolis and con. iptZWith him on the state of the manufactures in this country. p' 411 Y 4 11 y man read those reports, he would see clearly that the <the manufactures might be attributed to anything except the leti ti . L vs. It was machinery which had come into com_ tit 7 with the individual manufacturers—machinery, Qh t erease of which had reduced their manufactures, '4, 4 .. Opt the price of corn, or the state of the itd -, l "s. He did not blame machinery. He believed machinery lsf .itterially advanced the manufactures of this country, and is t :i ,, ien them the state of the returns which he had mentioned o t i A t; but we should not conceal from ourselves that in their 'lit As they had reduced greatly the individual manufactures.- 1.,,,f i. hear)—and that the improvements in machinery which were kii t 7 4 44 inlf daily, were one of the causes of the competition which ‘ t .4, not only between one part of the country and another, and q 4.71 and another, but between the individuals in each town, 44 l i ng it difficult to find markets to take off all the merchandise Ileanufactures which were produced by this machinery.— ii k Mlear.) These countries, which were supposed to become t i l °l this country, in consequence of the state of our corn.laws, Tad markets, it was true, but not in consequence of our corn kL.,t9eY had found markets in the South American States, near about y s ' 4 0 that manufactures were established in Germany, Russia, ivhere. The South American States declared their independ. *this was recognised by this country and the United States, %,it'ediately they did that, their ports were opened to the mer- Vre of Germany, Russia, and the whole world, and thus it li k , 4 !" , at merchants were found for the productions of those coun iti,:, They had been taunted a good deal to.night in consequence ii determination to depend upon their own resources for pro . . He was one of those who had always contended that the li th ltittire of this country should be protected as far as possible, S o riew to render us as nearly independent as we could be of s ea from foreign countries. He knew that in the state of our 4Unn, increasing as it had been, and was in the course of k, Year, and increasing also in wealth, that it would be k, t ible for us, even if we could annihilate bad seasons, to have ` a griculture kept in such a state of production a s t o ma i n t a i n w g ether independent of foreign supplies.—(Hear, hear.) But i t !tild beg of their Lordships not to lose tight of this object, not sight of the necessity of maintaining the agriculture of this try in a state of prosperity. The Noble Viscount had compared t:thation with that of the Romans and the Athenians in firmer ki:: i but he would beg the Noble Lord not to go quite I) back, for they could find an example in our situation within er k i d' few years. If he (the Noble Duke) mistook not, they had C records of that House an instance of one Sovereign in Europe is::g a duty on the export of corn to this country, purposely to t b the prices . to rise here. He (the Noble Duke) would 5',..e1l of them to recollect the state in which one great source supply—he meant Poland—was placed during the whole Ut_ion in Europe. Let them recollect the state in which IQ? Was, so late as 1830, during the insurrection of that year. is lii. lect that our supplies from that part of Lump° must depend iCe state of tranquillity of those veople residing on two or three YZ:se large streams that run irjco the Baltic through those Vies; and that only last year, w h en thi s coun t r y was i n 1 11 - i 4 a supply of corn r :early at the same time supplies of corn V e quired in diff'..ent parts of Russia, and that proclamations Vi: 4 4 .stied by the G overnment of that country forbidding exports Si:: Sort of ',on from Russia. During a part of the year it was st lier.dy impossible to get supplies from Russia. These cir laters he would beg of their Lordships to bear in mind in 7: Bon this question ; for we must not by any means suppose ‘" could at all times get from any part of the world what ~, `fie Might require. He did not mean to say, however, that we I,Systittpend solely on our own resources in this country. He I s ieig,,,_ we could not go on at present without at least a supply of wWwits t i ,.."/ of foreign quarters of corn every year, an amount tkat 14,1,...tain1y be increased hereafter.—(Hear, hear.) But still he , Sa i 'w treat their Lordships to provide for the prosperity of our ,N,, , b_ore , and to maintain it in the state in which it had been '5 ; for the last fourteen years, for it would be most dangerous 7t e i to rely entirely on the calculation of supplies from iNi:. - Oatts of the world.—(Hear, hear.) There was only one CI - "ore which he thought it necessary to advert to—that was the I S A e o ii ,_ of the Corn-lawn on the currency of this country. It was , 3: . true that when large sums of money were required to M ted from this country to pay for supplies of foreign corn I,.teriod when the Bank was in difficulty, that that export must h at e such a difficulty fbr the moment, but he believed it was 11, tv i ) e proved that the Corn-laws had been the cause of any such e nience. Other circumstances had caused it ; but certainly leulty once existing would be aggravated by the necessity of arge sums out of the country to pay for corn. But he o et ti r such was not the ease, for under the system of the gra eil Scale corn was always in the course of being exported in kit k ,Uence of the natural demand of the home market, but that 1 ) .14. e of the harvest or other cause did require the transmission Ita li 7 u t sums of specie abroad for corn.—(Hear.) The corn being ed into the home market simply by the opening of the doors .of the d storehouses, and it was paid b for yth einternal , 7 country. To replace this, would require unques. k. .. .. . V , the transmission of large sums of money, but this was '4 degrees. There was no good grounds for opposing a sliding le t ; they should uphold it, .if they meant to maintain the pro. k, of the agriculture of this -country, as it had existed for the V a ltrteen years, and to maintain things in the state in which te t hle Viscount very properly desired to continue them. The Pais Noble Friend would effect this object, and according to i li Y 4 ought.to act. Under those circumstances, he recommended ksto4dships,to support the resolution of his Noble Friend, and kb, that of the Noble-Viscount.—(Hear, hear.) li t ‘ 4 7 Marquis of LANSDOWNE would refer t o the unanswerable I lS w ef his Noble Friend, who had pursued this subject into all ..,., i fications, but into which no one had attempted to follow N ht4 (llear.) If that speech did not convince their Lordships of L N„ t pdareental vice of the present system. the principle of which ''see! t erninent abandoned in the expiring law, but which, en T‘teZ •_ face of experience, they proposed to re-enact e i Ilia proposed to the House—if that speech did not S. their their Lordships of the utter ine ffi ciency and mischief of a i scale, he (the Noble Marquis) well knew that no argu. S :his could convince them ; yet he wished to show their Lord. .."%l'a a few words, why lie must vote for the resolution of his e lts;tend, and why hemust oppose a proposition to do away at , I t, , l tb all duty on foreign corn.—(Hear.) He agreed that if i vl. t rt iPeiciple of free trade could be applied universally to ~Nu.r produce and commodities, under a reform of our I'lle e : 41 system, he should not fear for the fate of the agriculture Sle d ° cary in cmpetition with that of the rest of Europe. Let „ L 'Ss m , in v ested in n s ery kind of manufactures, agriculture in elhe ', e he put under the system of free trade, and he would not Vthe equal terms in the name of the farmer. But he (the hs t e /1 . arquis) would not allow it to be said that a man should en- VI capital In agriculture without protection for whatever e l / 44 :, while, at the same time, protection' was afforded to 11,q , invested in any other sort of undertaking and manufacture. ,tie t, Plight to remove anything that interfered with capital, be. Sil , if capital was protected in one case, he (Lord L.) should 1 / 4 t Wile ef the most fortunate circumstances that could take \e h l a the country, if they could dispense with that system which Si ki Rive relief to capital. He did not think that such an object S tf be attained by doing away with all duties on corn ; and lie, e'*e, could not vote for such a measure. His Noble Friend, N I r eaident of the Board of Trade, had stated, and a most sur sle statement it was, that on all articles that were not wanted : 4 14 01 (1 principles of commerce were adopted ; that when they 1 4 1 1 . 3 T an article that was wanted most, then that principle was n ti 2e adopted,but some ingenious experiment was to be devised. NZ experiments of the Noble Duke upon the subject of corn k l / 4 1 1143, e d. and that failure had been admitted by the Noble Duke vie. • When that measure was introduced by the Noble Duke, 1 4::ed that it would have the effect of maintaining the averages tZe regular rate of price in England than in any country of ,Sti k 7 i . Now he (Lord Lansdowne) wished to know on what e `koe i tY the Noble Duke had made that statement, because he 'te e Lansdowne) had a statement made by Mr. Hubbart, from , it clearly appeared that the averages, since the ki e -ga ction of that measure, had been much greater t k e I had ever taken place at any former period. He was ihtUreirised at the anxiety of the Noble Lords opposite, ;tt ei t kl of that Bill. It had by common consent, after the vote of %Pt. been got rid of. It was admitted by that vote, that part P 4 Pleasure was wrong; and yet, when he called upon it `lt able Duk e to make alterations in it, he refused to do so. e l tei v' at was the course he was pursuing now ? Why, eV'. le Duke was calling upon the House to do that which N u " , have been done when he introduced his measure in 1939. i'bbla Lords were extremely confident as to the result of 4 4 4 ,5-ere ; but after the failure of the principle of the Bill— hear)—after one suit of clothes was changed for another le e ! any of them fitting--after the failure of six Corn Bills in - t g rae of half a century, did they expect that the present eNte te would be a final one ? -- (Hear, hear.) If they did they e n recollect that the same confidence existed with regard to Ne Bills which had failed. There was to be a remunerating et ; Foreign corn was to be excluded, but tint one of those t 5 f ollowed.—(Cheers.) , And if there was one proof stronger Sither that this Bill was not to be a final settlement, that e w a s to be found in the development of the Bill by the Noble )7,4 b .:kW in the remarks of 'those who followed him, who showed iSt a teSt conflict of opibion as to the effect of it.—(Cheers.) kli , t ight be a good reason for its passing, but it was the contrary vatqard to its operation, and if people of sense drew different l ' l Z ti e t ers with regard to the effect of the measure, let him ask e n l e Lords who studied the subject, who were pre. Cik s „fer agricultural societies, who were engaged in agricul- N e 7Ulations, came to different conclusions on the subject, Odle , ere the farmers of England to be expected to tell what they 6 . e lt .e , t tell 9—(Cheers.) Let it be remembered the object was elk,7 confide"; in the farmers with re.stpdecidt notto tkhneowlandh—t 14Z e 4r i ) t — se a ff P e d .c effects, whothose i t w w e a r s e p to a o ni m ng uch to expect that the a were implicitely to believe in the benefit of a sliding scale. k e4 ore thought that if this country was destined by its posi etes_alth, and population—pat population which was created kofk,?rted by maehinery—lb depend upon foreign countries, C n i ell e4 t. to have a steady any regular supply of corn, and not 4,,;_.ular and uncertain supply which, he believed, would be C I ef the present measure. He believed that connected kit: r evolutions of the corn trade had been some of the great. , Ab ei te ra which the country had suffered in its commerce. It t :Ps that if they were to have any trade at all, they would er , e returns as quickly and from as wide a range as possible. ‘ 1 , - *ld not be done under the proposed Bill. In a measure Ve t te e _ l * earning up from the other House, there was a proposal N .5 the duty on meat. He thought that that proposal did • t edi . fq t, t to the Noble Duke and the Right Hon. Baronet at the el ue Government. But was not meat a part of the provi. el th e People, and if it were, why had they not applied the ) t e t n ) f the sliding scaler to meat as well as corn ?—(Hear, th 'le C ould not understand the ground of that distinction. r ecollect that as to prices, every little market in the 44 tti e , h ad its own calculation . He remembered an observation Ili k erated person, Prince Talleyrand, an observation which Nilie 1 very much at the time. He said there was one person Ni t I d wiser than th cleverest and the wisest man that ever Vs4 4 " - -tban Newton , than Locke, or than Montesquieu— !!,itleti * Was —Everybody !—(A laugh.) His opinion always kit' Lat ainst the opinion of any one who coped with him. So it with all these ingenious fallacies; they might find great N tt q * that House, but after a certain time it would be 4,, le, t e aarnined, eluded, and finally defeated, and the country „ Zli et have the benefit of that regular supply which should be 1 Se ta n f any law their Lordships might pass on the subject. He 4 11 e 4 1 th an the debates on ti,:s. subject, and much had been said in 7 t ah n 4 about a remunerating price. What that was he . -",_ understand. A remunerating price to whom ? To the farmer an the clayey soil, on the chalk, or on the flint ? To the farmer with large capital, with small capital, or with no capital at all—for all these different contingencies were natural to their system of agriculture—and he defied them to lay down any thing like a remunerating price secured by Act of Parliament. If there were any meaning in the term remunerating price, that could only be secured to the grower of wheat in this country by the capacity of the people to purchase it. It was by promoting that capacity, by supporting their manufactures, and securing them a fair vent to their produce, that they would secure to the agricultural capital of the country, that return which was the foundation of its prosperity. Let the people, by successful trade and ccmmerce, be enabled to purchase, and all the remune. rating price they provided for by act of Parliament would be un necessary. Let them not be enabled to purchase, and with that decline would fall away all the inefficient and ineffectual clauses of the Bill, all its rests and averages, by the contrivance of which they mainly hoped to create and to maintain a price which the ordinary course of commerce would not allow them to maintain. This country never coull subsist on its own resources ; their de pendence on foreign countries had never failed them in other articles, even in time of war. At the present time, it was in the power of the United States, if they chose to sacrifice their own interest, by stopping the supply of cotton for one year, to create more disturbance, tumult, and confusion in this country, than would be caused by the withholding all the supply of corn from the continentcf Europe for ten years. It Was on principles of another nature on which they must rely; by adopting the principles of his Noble Friend, they would adopt the principles most reconcileable to sound trade. If they adopted the present Bill, though he ad mitted it to be an improvement, yet they would adopt principles so far unsound that they were at variance with the ordinary prin ciples of commerce, and as such could not ultimately prove satisfactory. The Duke of WELLINGTON explained what he had stated in the debate of last year, as to what he thought the duty of the Government, to interfere so as to prevent frauds in the averages. Lord FITZGERALD said that at so late an hour he would not occupy their Lordships at any length. The Noble Lord then went into statements to show that a fixed duty would at some time keep out corn necessary for the sustenance of the people, and bring the country back to the state in which it was when there was a necessity for a bounty upon the importation of corn. With respect to the complaint made by the Americans of their inability to meet their engagements with the merchants of this country, on account of the Corn-laws, such a complaint came with a bad grace from those who had a Corn-law of their own, for the purpose of excluding Canadian wheat—wheat grown in an English province. As to Russia, seeing that we took a much larger propor tion of the produce of that country than we sent of manufactures in return, he doubted very much whether any increase in the impor tation into this Gauntry of Russian wheat, would create an increase in our exports to that country. There was another remark which he wished to snake relative to Russia. He had reason to believe, that if the corn trade of this country were wholly unrestricted we could not calculate on re. craving, at least for the present, any large amount of corn from Russia. He found that the Briiish Consul at Riga stated, that he was inclined to think, upon the whole, that a reduction in the duty upon the importation of wheat into this country would produce some, but, for years at least, no very material increase in the quasi. tity of wheat grown in Russia, and available for importation into England. The Noble Marquis (Lansdowne) had said that his Noble Friend (the Duke of Wellington) had stated, without sufficient authority, that the variations in the price of wheat in this country, had been less than in other countries, in which there had been no Corn.law. Now, it appeared from a paper laid by order upon the table of the House of Commons, that from the year 1829 to the year 1839, the prices et wheat had varied in England less than in Dantzic, and the variations in Rotterdam were almost as great as in England. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE—Was that a difference per cent ? Lord FITZGERALD said that he found it was not.—(Hear.) He found that the return was a fallacy; but as it had been laid be. fore the House of Commons by the late Government, be hoped he would be pardoned for the respect he had paid to it. The Marquis of cLANRIcArtDE asked whether the return had not been presented on a friction by Sir C. Lemon, and whether it was not a fact that the Government had not founded any motion upon it ? Lord FITZGERALD admitted that that might be so; but he thought he had some reason to complain of the interruptions of his Noble Friend, to whom he was not then replying. He would keep his promise of not protracting the debate, but he could not avoid alluding to the observations made by the Noble Marquis, respecting the application of the sliding scale to the tariff. One reason was that cattle and other articles of the tariff were not subject to the variations of the season, and he (Lord Fitzgerald) should like to see how the Noble Marquis would propose to apply a tariff.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Marquis had commented on the absurdity of defining what should be a remunerating price, but th...t argument bore quite as hardly against the advocates of a fixed duty as against the advocates for a sliding scale. It was an argument against any protection whatever, and he did not believe that the Noble Marquis would wish to carry it to that extent. Lord MONTEAGLE explained, After a few words from the Marquis of CLANRICARDE and the Earl of HARDWICK; Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House di. Tided, when there appeared— For Lord Melbourne's Motion Against it Majority against the Motion — 130 . _ During our absence from the gallery, the House again divided on Lord Brougham's amendment, when there appeared— For the Amendment 9 Against it Majority against the Amendment ...... ..• -- 97 On re-entering the gallery, we found Lord BROUGHAM upon his legs, who was moving a resolu tion declaratory of the impolicy of placing any restriction whatever upon the importation of foreign corn. He said that he would rather have their votes than their eloquence, and concluded by moving the amendment, of which he had given notice. The question was then put from the Woolsack, and straegers were ordered to withdraw, and the House divided, when there appeared— _ __ For the resolution For the amendment Majority in favour of the resolution The Bill then went through Committee, and the House ad journed at a Quarter past Two o'clock till Thursday. HOUSE OF COMAIONS. April 19. The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hour. Mr. P. PRYSE took the oaths and his seat, as Mem ber for the Borough of Cardigan, for which a Select Committee had declared that he had been duly returned. Mr. A. LEFROY took the oaths and his seat, as Member for the county of Longford, in the room of Mr. Luke Whit•, whom the decision of the Select Com mittee had unseated. KINGSCLERE INCLOSURE BILL. Mr. LABOUC HERE having brought up the Report on this Bill,'moved that the Report be adopted. Mr. GODSON rose to move that the Lill should be recommitted, for the purpose of having certain clauses added to it. The Hon. Member complained of that clause of the Bill which required that cottagers should be disturbed in the possession of their cottages unless they had for more than twenty years possessed them. The Hon. Gentlemen suggested some clauses relating to cottagers which, unless the promoters of the Bill con sented to introduce, he would oppose the Bill, as he now moved its re-committal to give an opportunity for their introduction. Mr. BROTHERTON seconded the motion. The question having been put. Sir W. HEATHCOTE said, that with regard to the clauses he scarcely differed from the Honourable Gentleman, but he did not agree with him as to the necessity of drawing a distinction as to the time when encroachments should be made. It was laid down in the law, that those encroachments should be mado ; and wrong doers should have no advantage, except what the law allowed them. A great number of the inhabi tants was in favour of the Bill, as to its general prin ciple ; and he should, therefore, oppose the motion. Mr. BROTHEIITON said that the House ought to throw its shield over the poor people who were to bo affected by this Bill. In the year 1834 it was thought that these cottagers would be much injured by the In closure Bill, and in 1836 it was abandoned ; and it could be easily shown why agents and counsel were not employed, as they were not able to procure money to oppose the Bill. He should, therefore, vote for the mo tion of the Hon. Member. Mr. LABOUCHERE said, that as he had been on the Committee on this Bill, he wished to say a few words on the subject. He would only say , that he could un derstand Gentlemen having objections to inclosures altogether, but he thought if the principle should exist at all it ought in this case. This was not the case of a densely peopled country, a great town, but this was a common composed of good land, perfectly capable of being cultivated, and he had no doubt that the interests of the poorer classes would be consulted better by cul tivating this common. This was his ground for support ing the Bill. People had been in the habit of constantly encroaching on this common, and this Bill proposed to give them a legal right to do He did not propose to take any right from them.—(Hear.) At present, though people had encroached, the Lord of the Manor had power to eject them at any time. Lord G. SOMERSET said if the Hon. Member meant to press it to a division, he must say that he could not agree with his proposition. He found that the cir cumstances had been investigated by a Committee per fectly competent to decide on the merits of the case, and that they had come to a finite determination. If the unanimous decision of Committees of that House were to be over-ruled, he did not see how the business of the House was to be carried on. _ _ Mr. FIELDEN said it was the duty of the House to protect the weak against the strong. He thought the Bill should be re-committed. The House divided. The numbers were— For receiving the Report 137 For the amendment l5 Majority —l22 The Report was then brought up and agreed to. BLACKBURN ELECTION. The following Members were appointed as a Com mittee to try the nrJrits of the petition presented against the return for the Borough of Blackburn :—CoI. Rolleston, Mr. J. Rundell, Mr. W. Cripps, Mr. R. Archbold, Sir E. Brooke, Lord Worsley, and Sir E. Hayes, Chairman. souTnwARK l'ArßovE,mF,N7r BILL. The Southwark Improvement Bill (Nu. 2) was read a third time. Mr. PALMER moved a clause to afford compensation to the lessees of certain property affected by the Bill. Mr. LITTON seconded the motion. On the motion that the clause be brought up, Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET thought the ques tion was one of too great importance for the House to be called upon to decide on it hastily. It might involve the whole question of Church leases, and he thought at least the clause ought to be printed before the House came to a decision on the subject. He should therefore propose, in order to give time to have the clause printed, that the debate be adjourned to this day se'nnight. Mr. R. PALMER did not object to the postponement proposed by the Noble Lord. Mr. AGLIONBY, although he highly approved of the clause, yet agreed with the Noble Lord that it would be better to postpone the further consideration of the sub ject, so as not to take the House by surprise. He was glad to hear the Right Hon. Baronet say, the other day, that he had directed his attention to the subject of Church leases, and he trusted the Government would propose some measure to settle the question. He ap proved of the clause of the Hon. Member for Berkshire, because he thought it was calculated to do justice to private parties, without inflicting any hardship on the public. Sir 11. INGLIS, considering the motion which his Noble Friend (the Member for Monmouth) made last weels upon this subject, u3niti not consent to either of the propositions now made, because the object of the post- THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, APRIL 20, 1842. ponement, if carried now, would be to raise a debate upon Church leases. If the question of Church leases was to be decided, let it be decided by a Bill brou,•ht in for the purpose, and nut incidentally by a clause in the Southwark Improvement Bill. The House might make the law general if it pleased, but he trusted they would not, fur the sake of encumbering a particular measure, insert a clause deciding a great public principle. He felt bound as much to oppose the motion of his Noble Friend fur delaying the subject as the motion of the Hun. Member for Berkshire for the introduction of the clause. On the motion that the clause enacting that persons possessing Church property purchased under the Bill, should receive compensation, stand part of the Bill, the debate on the Bill was adjourned, on the motion of Lord G. Somerset, and the clause ordered to be printed. WESTON SUPER-MARE IMPROVEMENT BILL. On the motion of Mr. MILES the Weston Super- Mare Improvement Bill was react a third time. PIEL PIER BILL. The Piel Pier Bill was read a second time. COMMITTEES. Mr. LOCKHART moved that Mr. Forbes be added to the Committee on the Inchbally Road Bill, Mr. GREENE opposed the motion as contrary to the general practice of the House. Mr. LABOUCHEHE also condemned the motion as a departure from established practice. After a few words from Lord G. SOMERSET, the motion was withdrawn. • ELGIN BURGHS ELECTION. The SPEAKER informed the house that he had re ceived a communication from the agents for the peti tioners complaining of the late return of a Member for the Elgin district of Burghs, that it was not their inten tion to proceed with the petition. NOTICES OF ➢LOTION—THE CHARTER. .MI.I.DUNCOMBE gave notice that on Monday the 2d of ➢lay he would present a national petition, signed by more than three millions of the industrious classes, in favour of the People's Chtxter, and that on the follow ing day he would move that the petition be taken into consideration, and the petitioners heard by Counsel or by their agents. Mr. WALLACE gave notice of his intention to move that the Income- tax should not be proceeded with until the tariff had been discussed. Mr. HUTT gave notice that on this day fortnight he would call the attention of the House to the borough magistracy of the country.—(Loud cheers.) EMIGRATION. Mr. MAXWELL STEWART wished to put a ques tion to the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colo nies on the subject of emigration. He had been en trusted with the petitions of many thousand persons who were unemployed at home, and who were anxious to proceed to the colonies, if they could find em ployment there. They had heard that the demand for labour in the colonies was very great in comparison with the demand in this country. He hoped that the Noble Lord would state, first, whether in the colonies there was a great lack of labour, and whether labour received remunerating wages ; and next, whether there was any intention on the part of her Majesty's Government to facilitate in any way the means of transport from this country to the various colonies. In putting these questions, he did so with reference, not to those who were unwilling to go, but to thousands of volunteers who are anxious to go if they could obtain employment.—(Hear.) He wished also to know whether, in the case of the other colonies, the same plan would be adopted as had been with reference to the Australian colonies, namely, that of ap plying the proceeds of the sale of land to the purpose of defraying the expense of emigration. Lord STANLEY, who spoke with his back to the gallery, and in so low a tons of voice that we could hardly catch his sentences, was understood to say that the question of the Honourable Gentleman was a most important one, and he trusted that the House would, in consideration of its importance, al low him to give not only a direct answer, but a some what detailed one. The first question of the lion. Gen tleman was, whether there was not, at the present time, a great demand in the colonies of Great Britain for ex tensive employment of a large number of emigrants. He would put the West India colonies out of consideration altogether, as the question to consider referred to Aus tralia and the Colonies in North America. For the last few years the produce of the sale of land had been ap plied to the purposes of emigration, which had principally been under the superintendence of the Government. His Noble Friend who had preceded him in the Colonial office knew that there had been about 40,000 emigrants sent out since December 1840, at a cost of 900,0001. (as we understood). During the last year the actual amount of emigration to the colony of New South Wales had been 22,750. By the last accounts received from the Governor it appeared that 12,750 emigrants had arrived, and that 10,000 more were on the road. These 12,750 had in volved the colony in a debt of 11,0001., and what must be the distress occasioned when they found there were 10,000 more coming out;? The Governor stated that at that time there was no demand for labour in the colony, but that on the contrary there existed the greatest difficulty in providing labour for those immigrants who had recently arrived there. He (Lord Stanley) felt it to be his duty to make this statement thus publicly, in order to show that at present there was no demand for labour in that colony, and that emigration could not be pushed beyond a certain point, unless capital emigrated likewise, and if capital did not emigrate, those who emigrated without property would be exposed to the greatest distress.— (Hear, hear.) He did not mean to say that the present sate of distress in New South Wales was likely to be permanent. On the contrary, ho believed it would only be temporary ; that it arose from the cessation of the land sales for some time past, which had ceased in conse quence of the commercial embarrassments of the colony. He believed that the colony would be able to absorb a continued stream of emigration, provided they did not attempt to pour in too many emigrants at once. It was the opinion of the Governor of the colony that the colony was capable of receiving an nually from eight to ten thousand emigrants; the House would, however, perceive that to send out twenty two thousand annually, more than double the num ber the colony was capable of receiving, must in evitably occasion great distress among those emigrating. With respect to the colony of Van Diemen's Land, he had, at the present moment, in his hand, about 1,5001., the produce of the land sales in the colony, which sum would be devoted to the purposes of emigration. The colony was capable of receiving about 1,500 persons in the course of a year, and that number had already emigrated thither in the course of the present year. With regard to Western Australia, he ought to beg pardon of the House for going into such details, merely in answering a question—( Cries of " Go on")—but it was a most important question.—(Hear, hear.) With:regard, then, to Western Australia, the colony was a very small one, and was not capable of receiving emigrants to any great extent. He believed, however, that the colony was going on steadily, and that there was a demand for labour there capable of absorbing annually about two hundred emigrants, and that number were already on their road there. In consequence of the disastrous state of South Australia last year the land sales in that colony had entirely ceased, and in consequence of the cessation of the large Government expenditure for public works, the extravagance of which had greatly conduced to produce the existing state of distress, :so many persons had been thrown out of employment, that out of a population of 15,000 souls 1,200 were living as paupers, being maintained out of the public funds, from want of employment . With respect to the colony of New Zealand, he believed of all the Australian colonies it afforded the most reason able prospects to the labouring classes. He would refrain at the present moment from expressing any opinion as to those settlements which were under the control of the New Zealand Company, as they had more means of knowing what the resources of those employed there would be than he had. He had now stated the case of the different Australian colonies. With respect to the North American colonies, the case was rather different, because the Government had no funds there for the purposes of emigration. In those colonies the proceeds of the land fund had been paid over to the local legislature ; on the whole, he beloved the North American colonies held out a favourable prospect Of employment to emigrants. With respect to Canada, lie tboughht that experience showed that it was likely to become a seance of profit able employment to the emigrant. It was true that, in many instances, the emigrants had suffered severely, but he would earnestly recommend all who emi grated to plane themselves under the Government Agents of the different colonies, who were the best calculated to inform them where the greater quantity of employ ment was to be found. With respect to the subject of emigration to Canada, although their condition last year was favourable, many had suffered from the severity of the weather, but those were chiefly weavers and persons who were not in the habit of working at out-door employment. Many of them, who had not found employment, had been supported by private contributions. At the same time, he must say that this class of men, were not likely to form favourable settlers ; they were likely to be exposed to hardships in :the early stages of their settling. He hoped he had fully answered the question of the Hon. Gentleman.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. P. M. STEWART thanked the Noble Lord for the full answer he had given to his question, and on the part of the unemployed weavers of Paisley, he thought it would tend to remove any prejudice they might have on the question. POOR-LAWS. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE asked if he might be permitted to put a question to the Right Hon. Baronet, the Secre to the Home Department. The Right Hon. Baronet had stated, that immediately after the Easter recess he should introduce the Poor-law Amendment Bill. He wished to ask on what day they might expect to see it introduced? Sir J. GRAHAM said he had not fixed immediately after Easter for bringing on the subjeot. The same question bad been put by another Hon. Gentleman op posite, and he should give the same answer to the pre sent one, that as soon as the businesS of the House had made somo reasonable progress, he should_bring ill the Bill. for the purpose of saving the time of the House, to answer the ques,ion then, as he was about to answer another question relative to the State affairs its the same country. He could not answer those questions without adverting to the peculiar and anomalous posi tion in which he, as a Minister of the British Crown, stood with respect to the condition of affairs in Syria. If the situation of affairs in Syria, and the relations of Syria with this country, or the relations of the Porte with this country were of an ordinary kind, he should feel himself compelled to de cline altogether answering the question, because he thought no thing could be more impolitic than that a British Minister should answer questions with regard to the administration of dom. stir affairs in another country. One of the questions was, whether or not the Porte intended to employ a certain de scription of soldiery in Syria, and the other was whether the Porte had refused to remove a certain officer whom they had entrusted with a special command in that country ? He would repeat that if the relations of the Turkish empire and of Syria were of an ordinary character he should decline answering those questions, because, among other sea-one, he felt it was utterly impossible for him to undertake the ad ministration of Syria. There was certainly enough in undertaking the administration of affairs in England— (Heir and laughter)—without his undertaking the adminis tration of affairs in a foreign country. With regard to the ap pointment, to which the Gallant Commodore alluded, he did not hesitate to say that a more objectionable appo ntment could not be made. They had remonstrated with the Porte upon tha subject, and they had received an assurance that that appoint ment should not be affirmed. With regard to the question of rho Hen. Gentleman, be regretted to find that the Porte had thought it expedient to send out those troops. The British Government had sent out instructions to Sir S. Can ning, their Ambassador at the Porte, to represent to the Porte, that nothing but evil and confusion could ensue from employing their troops in the interior of Syria. The numbers, he believed, had been considerably overrated, and an assurance had 1 een given that they should not be employed in the interior of the country. The justification of their employ- ment was the great loss of life in the ease of the Turkish troops employed in Syria, and they were solemnly assured that they would be retained upon the coast. The Engish Ambassador had expressed to the Sultan his astonishment and concern at the Arnaut: troops being sent to Syria, and warned the Porte of the impression which such a step was likely to produce on the European Governments. He trusted that he had now shown that the scenes which had occurred in Syria had been the object of complaint, whether successfully or not, and that he had convinced the Hon. Gentleman and the House that the Government was not indifferent'te a question which so deeply affected the tranquillity of Syria. BOROUGH MAGISTRATES. Mr. HUTT wished to ask the Right Hon. Baronet oppo site (Sir J. Graham) whether he had received any statement as to the manner in which justice had been administered in the boroughs since the recent appointment of Magistrates. Sir J. GRAHAM said the Hon. Gentleman was so kind as to give him a general notice that he intended to ask him certain questions to-day respecting the recent appointment of borough Magistrates, but he had not told him what would be the pre cise questions, so as to enable him to give a specific. answer. The Hon. Gentleman had, however, relieved him from any anxiety which he might have felt by giving notice of a motion upon the subject. In that state of things, he must abstain from entering into any statement at present. Mr. AGLIONBY begged to ask whether the Right Hon. Baronet had any objections to lay on the table of the House any documents which might be important, Sir J. GRAHAeI said that Hon. Gentlemen on the other side were very fond of making complaints, doubtless agreeable to them, but certainly not very complimentary to him (Sir J, Graham). Mr. HUTT said, the Right BM Baronet had misunder stood his question. He did not ask whether there had been any complaints made of the municipalities ; what he had asked was, whether complaints had been made by the municipality, or other parties, as to the manner in which justice had been administered. Sir JAMES GRAHAM said, he had already stated, that if the Hon. Gentleman had any specific motion to make, the Hon. Gentleman could do so, and he could also move for any returns he thought proper. The grounds on which he (Sir J. Graham) had advised her Majesty to make the appointments, would be explained by him when that. motion was before the House. IRISH JUDGES, AND THE INCOME-TAX. Mr. O'CONNELL wished to ask the Right Hon. Baronet, the Member for Tamworth, whether the salaries of the Irish Judges, paid out of the Consolidated Fund, would be liable to the Income-tax. Sir R. PEEL said, that the arrangements he proposed to make with respect to the salaries of public officers being liable to the Income-tax was:this, that in respect of all appointments in Ireland, the duties of which were permanent and stationary, in these cases they would not be subjected to the operation of the Income-tax. In the case, for instance, of the Commis• sioner of Customs, he would nut be subjected to the operation of the tax. IPSWICH COMMITTEE. Mr. R. WASON here rose, but was interrupted by The SPEAKER, who said that the motion of the Hon. Member was irregular and unparliarnentary, and he was quite sure the House would insist upon his (the Speaker's) rising to stop the Hon. Member from going on with it.—(Loud cheers from the Ministerial benches.) The Hon. Member's notice contained a condemnation of a Committee then sitting. If the Hon. Member persisted in his motion it would arraign the conduct of the Members of the Committee then sitting. That House, according to its rules, would never allow the conduct of any Committee to be alluded to until that Committee had made its Report. The proceedings of this Committee were still pending ; it therefore would be in the highest degree irregular for any Ilonourable Member of that House to allude to the conduct of that Committee until its Report had been made. He (the Speaker) put it to the Hon. Member whether, considering the peculiar nature of a Select Committee—considering that it was a tri bunal altogether independent of that House—constituted by Act of Parliament, every Member of which was sworn to try the merits of the ease—he put it to the Hon. Member whether it would be right to allude to the conduct of the persons com posing that Committee. Mr. RIGBY WASON said it was his duty to bow to the opinion and decision of the Chair, at the same time he had in tended to have atcided adverting to what had been said by the Members of the Committee. He would merely state to the House it had not been his intention to have concluded with any motion. —(Laughter, and cries of " Oh, oh.") Mr. PAKINGTON said that he was sure, from the pecu liar position in which he was placed, the House would allow him to express his deep regret that the forms of Parliament would not allow the Hon. Gentleman opposite to proceed with the notice he had given, as he was prevented from repelling the im putation which had been cast upon the Committee. :Whatever calumnies he (Mr. R. Wason) might have thought it his duty to cast upon the Committee over which it was his (Mr. P.'s) painful duty to preside, he would say for the Members of that Committee, and for himself, that they courted investigation to its fullest extent.—(Cheers.) He (Mr. P.) most earnestly hoped, whatever might be the charges which the Hon. Gentle man might think proper to bring ferward—be (Mr. P.) did most earnestly hope that at some future period the Hon. Gen tleman would, consistently with the forms of the House, bring his accusations a g ainst the Committ ee un d er t h e co nsideration of the House. But there was one fact which he (Mr. P.) thought ought to be made known to the Hon. Gentleman him self, and which he (Mr. P.) thought it was right to the Com mittee and the House, should be made public. The fact was Committee were unanimous the evidence given by the party witht his, that reg a althoughregard to the character ra e r believed of th now in Newgate, notwithstanding that fact, the Committee were not unanimous as to the manner in which the conduct of that party chould be followed up. Mr. Rigby Wason, with Mr. Rennie, rose amid loud cries It it to be his duty as a party Way to of A ,, h 0 .. r it i d e E r , N ' N b E t he , h former h g e a vf felt interested in the subject, to state to the House that he did not agree with the course taken by his Hon. Colleague. Sir R. INGLIS, who spoke amid much confusion, said, he hoped that what had been said by the Speaker would be ex punged, together With the notice of the Hen. Member, from the journals of the House- It appeared to him as a matter worthy of consideration, whether the same course which had been adopted in 1835, relative to a notice of motion which was considered calumnious and indecorous, and was ordered to be expunged from the journals of the House, should not be adopted now. --- The SPEAKER made some reply, but there was so much noise in the House that vre did not hear it. Mr. COCHRANE postponed his motion for certain papers relative to the diplomatic intercourse between this kingdom and Greece to a future day. FRAUDS IN AIAriUFACTURES. Mr. FERRAND said, in rising to address the House he felt most deeply the responsibility which attached to him, for he had not only the prayers of every honest manufacturer for his suc cess but the eyes of the working classes, both of Great Britain and Ireland, were watching him that evening. But when he recollected that he was placed that evening in the position in which he then stood, not by his own seeking—when he remem bered that he had been driven by Hon. Gentlemen opposite to that course—when he considered that it was their duty to take the steps he was taking, he considered he needed no apology. When he first of all brought forward the charges he was about to attempt to prove to be correct, he was induced to do so, be cause, throughout the country, men were hired to use the most exciting and violent language ; because placards of the most in flammatory kind were circulated through every town and village, calling on the working classes to look on the landed proprietors as their greatest enemies, as those who kept their food from them, as those who dried up the mother's breast, and caused the death of the infant in the mother's arms, as those who outraged the laws of God and man, and all for selfish motives. He had inquired into: the truth of these charges among the working classes themselves, and they had repudiated any share in making those charges, and that they had been heaped on their heads by the manufacturers themselves. He was aware that the first of the resolutions he had moved was a Standing Order of that House, but he had placed it on the paper to let the people know that if the manufacturers brought forward false evidence, that House had the power of protecting them. The second reso lution he considered absolutely necessary for the protection of the working classes who might have to attend before the Select Committee, if the House should grant it. the working classes state that they dare not attend and give evidence before any Committee unless they are protected, as they would have nothing but ruin before them. Those who gave evidence before the Committee obtained by Mr. Sadler were ruined by being denied employment, and this class now hoped that this House, having given twenty millions for the purpose of putting down slavery among the blacks, and granted 17,0001. to enable the Hon. and learned Member for Bolton to go on the Continent to make inquiries as to the extension of Com merce and Manufactures, would not refuse to grant them pro tection. He thought the Hon. Gent. would agree with him that nothing could be more requisite for extending the trade and commerce of the country than that our manufacturers and merchants should be of unsullied character—that in all their differenttrading transactions with the different quarters of the globe they should act with justice, and that they should not practice deceit either as regarded their fellow -countrymen or foreigners He found that our ancestors were of that opinion. They had been jealous of the honour of the nation, and had passed stringent laws to prevent any attempt at fraud. He found in the preamble of the Act 13 Richard 11. cap. 2, that the Legislature at that time had interfered to prevent fraud in the manufacture and packing of clogs.—(The Hon. Member here read the preamble of the Act alluded to.) He found that, in the sth and 6th of Edward Y 1., an Act of Par liamen was passed to provide for the due making of woollen cloth.—(The Hon. Member here read a portion of the Act in question, from which it appeared that the clothiers of that day were not altogether ignorant of the practice of mixing a com position somewhat analagous to "Devils Dust " with the wool, since, as the Act expresses it, from "lack of knowledge," and others "from extreme covetousness , and having more respect for their own private advantage than for the advantage of the community.") Again, in the 43d year of the reign of Elizabeth, he found Parliament interfering for the purpose of regulating the manufacture of woollen cloth.—( The Hon. Member here read a passage of the Act of Elizabeth, from which it appeared that the clothiers still continued to disregard the good and godly enactments" which had been made for the regulation of the woollen manufacture, and that they stretched the fabric of the cloth, filling up the insterstices with " chalk-flour and other things," which caused the cloth when wetted to shrink. The Hon. Member then referred to an Act passed in the 10th year of the reign of Queen Anne, for the better payment of the poor makers of cloths, and observed that he had read to the House certain Acts of Parliament, passed by their ancestors for the protection of manufacturers and work men, and also for the protection of the public, but about fifty ars ago a new light broke in upon the peoples' representa fives, and the consequence was that those acts were suspended. What was thel result of that? Why, that frauds of the most gross description were practised by manufacturers in all trades, to the great injury of the public, both at home and abroad. He did not mean to deny that there were many manufacturers who were anxious to be honest and upright men, and who wished to carry into the market articles that would de justice, not only to themselves, but the public ; but when the new principle burst upon the country . a new arena was opene d t o th e manu f ac t urers to cheat and defraud their neighbours both here and abroad. They had been told by Hon. Members that the Corn-laws were the drag chain of the agricultural and manufacturing interests, and they l had been told also that they were the only cause of the present distress. They were told that if the ° landed interest would only give the manufacturers a free trade in corn there would be no limits to the extension of British commerce. But he found that the merchants and manufacturers of this country had been in possession of the South America market from the year 1807 to the year 1822, or 1823. At that time Mr. Canning declared that we had called a new world into existence ; and it was thought that a boundless field was thus opened for the commerce of this country. But what was the consequence of the frauds committed by the manufacturers themselves ? They were themselves the first cause to a great extent of losing the market of South America. Ile had heard it stated by some Hon. Gen tlemen opposite that the use of flour was indispensibly necessary in making cotton and calico ; but he (Mr. Ferrand) begged leave mot distinctly to say, that such a practice was formerly unknown. Flour had never been made use of until the manu facturers had introduced it for the purpose of cheating and fraud, fie did not utter those expressions merely on his own authority. In asking for a Committee that night, he wished to say, that he would use the evidence and autbority of persons entitled to the highest credit. He would call to his aid manu facturers of the highest respectability and standing in the country, as well as working people, who would come before the Committee if proper protection were given them. He felt so strong in the truth of his pcaition, that lie fearlessly asserted that if any rule of the House prevented the granting of the second part of his resolution, he would ask for the Committee before whom he would prove every word he had said, upon the authority of manufacturers, merchants, magistrates, trades men, and operatives. There was a work of very great merit, entitled " Baines' History of the Cotton Manufacture," to which he would for a moment refer. The work was a standard book upon the subject; and no person had ever attempted to dispute its assertions. In April, 1835, the work was most ably rev.ewed in Tait's Edinburgh Magazine. The reviewer stated that he should extract one passage relative to practices which he had heard, were banishing foreigners from our markets, and sending them to countries where these disgraceful practices were unknown. Mr. Baines said, that, to improve the ap pearance of the cloth, it was usually passed through starch made of flour, mixed with porcelain clay and calcined sulphate of lime, by which the cloth was made thicker, and appeared to have greater substance and strength than previously. He also stated that it was a " contrivance originally davised for the purpose of fraud ; and which, though now too generally understood to he regarded as fraudulent, it would be creditabie to the trade to discontinue." Here, then, it was distinctly stated that the practice of using flour paste originated in fraud. He would also read to the House the letter of a gentleman who had paid great attention to the subject. The Hon. Member then read an extract describing the process of applying flour paste in the manufacture of calico. Ho would take the House with him into South America, that they might see what reception our manufactures had met with in that country. He would quote from Robinson's work on Paraguay, when under the rule of Dr. Francia. It was there stated that not a single piece of linen for the soldier's shirts and trowsers was purchased without previous inspection by his Excellency; that having found that the cloth had wide interstices between the threads, he was in the habit of viewing it with a microscope to ascertain its real texture ; and that when he found the threads yawning he allowed the owner half price, telling him at the same time that he ought to be punished as a knave. The Jews, said his Excellency, were cheats, but the English were downright swindlers. Vi hat a disgrace was this, said the lion. Member, to this country that their merchants should be thus considered. When he read it his blood boiled to think that Englishmen should have so traduced their country seven thousand miles from home. Here was the true history of the downfol of English commerce. " For," said Dr. Francia from the same authority, " go about your business, and the next time you bring your goods, bring them from honest Ger many." What was the reason they had lost their trade? Be cause their manufacturers had been so hungry after filthy lucre. In Chambers' Edinburgh Journal, of Feb. 19, in and article, entitled " A few weeks on the Continent," it was stated that the Swiss supplied themselves with home made clothing, because they had no confidence in the durabi lity of colour of the English printed cottons. He had also received from a respectable shopkeeper in Liverpool a speci men of the coarsest sort of white shirting, and he could hardly have believed, on less respectable testimony, that the poor were so plundered by the manufacturers. A sample of that shirting he had sent to the Right Hon. Baronet and the No ble Lord. The lace trade, according to Babbage's " Economy of Manufactures," was reduced to a state of ruin by the frauds practiced in it ; and in the stocking trade, it appeared from evidence, that stockings were made of an uniform width all the way down from the knee to the ancle, and when they were wet the purchaser could not distinguish the fraud, but when they were dry, he found they hung like a bag round his ancles. (Laughter.) He had heard a great deal of the distress of the country, and of the Corn-laws being the cause of that distress. ('The Hon. Member here read an extract from the Nottingham Joanna', complaining of the practice of making what are called " thoppings off," in that neighbourhood, by means of which a stocking frame was enable to manufacture twice as many stock ings as it would under a better system, and that consequently there was a great scarcity of employment and considerable distress among the stockingers, who had seldom 10s. worth of furniture in their houses, and whose destitution was increased by the fraudulent manner in which they were paid under the truck system.) He would call the particular attention of the Right Hon. Baronet to the last paragraph of that article in the Nottingham Journal, in which the writer called upon the Government to come forward and protect the stockingers who were a degraded half-starved body of useful men, who had no means of protecting themselves. They asked through him for a Committee of that House, and he trusted there was no Hon. Member who had heard him who would not assist him in ob taining that Committee. Gentlemen opposite had said that they would throw no impediment in his way, and he trusted that they would act np to what they bad said, that the Government would not object to the apppointment of this Committee. He would now proceed to give them an account of the frauds committed in the ma nufacture of watches, which, when they' were carried abroad, would not go for half an hour.—( A laugh.) That had been given in evidence before the House of Commons. It was no case for laughing—( Renewed laughter)—it was rather a reason why the Legislature of the present day should inter fere to 'prevent fraud, and show themselves (said the Ho nourable Gentleman) " as jealous of the British nation as what our ancestors were 500 years age." He had received a letter on the subject of those frauds, in which the writer had stated that he had been before aware that many of the prints exported faded en the first washing. He had not been aware that a great proportion of the clothes themselves were only fit for wadding until he had read his ( Mr. Farrand's) speech, and suggested that recourse be had to the old plan of stamping ma nufactured articles previous to exportation. The writer then went on to state, that needles had been exported without eyes ; that until the Tower stamp had been restored, the muskets ex ported had only been dangerous to those who fired them ; and that the axes were such that the American woodsmen could no longer venture to use them. He concluded by reproaching the Legislature with running the risk of ruining the honest and industrious, in preference to adopting measures for restraining a parcel of scamps. He had also brought before the notice of the House the frauds committed in the use of shoddy cloths. Ncw he would read a letter he had received from a respectable manufacturer of fifty years' standing, who resided in Yorkshire, who observed, that he (Mr. Farrend) had not overstated what had taken place in his part of the country. The use of shoddy cloths had become so general, that his corrrespondent stated his opinion to be, that unless the Government passed some restrictions to the use of such commodities, the woollen trade of the country would soon be put a stop to. He had seen woollen cloths stiffened with flour, the effect of which was that it was constantly eaten by moths, and soon became good for nothing. He was sure that restrictions to the use of such :materials might be made at a very small expense. An other letter that he had received stated that the writer knew a manufacturer, who was in the habit of buying up old woollen stockings, chopping them up, and mixing them with the wool. Now, if he wanted one proof better than another of this, he would refer to a document issued by Government itself. The manufacturers had been making use of such materials that the Government had been obliged to take up the question to pro tect themselves. They had issued a circular, in which they prohibited the use of such goods ; and in that circular it was stated that all cloth was to be made of new wool, and that if it was not the Board would have nothing to do with it, or the manufacture of it. The Board had nothing to do with them ; they had deserted such infamous rascals, and well they might. —(Laughter.) He (Mr. F.) thought the House would agree with him that when he asserted the manufacturers of the coun try had been losing their character, he had substantiated his assertion. if there were any doubt upon the subject, either on the part of the Government, or of any Member of the House, he thought he had produced sufficient evidence to convince them that a Select Con.mittee should be granted. Had he not convinced lion. Members that it was time for the Government to step forward and put a stop, by legislative enactments, to their practices ? He was convinced, that if a poor man had committed similar frauds he would be severely punished ; and thereasught not te be one law for the rich and another for the poor. In the name of the poor man, and in the name of the honest ma nufacturers of this country, lie called on the House to comeSfor ward and interfere. He would next, w ith permission of the House, allude to the truck system. That was a sub;ect of the greatest importance to the manufactures of the country. The working men were now literally perishing in thousands ; and he believed their miseries had been mainly brought about by the cruel op pression of their masters. He had reason to know that some manufacturers not only paid their workmen in goods, but that the goods they gave were of a very inferior description. Those manufacturers sometimes delayed the payment of their labour s not only for weeks, as he had said, on a former occasion, but for months, and sometimes for twelve months. He had lately received a letter from a highly respectable gentleman, ' who, in consequence of the part he had taken en the subject in that I louse, had stated to him that he knew of a case in which an application was made by a labourer of the name of Erwin to the Board of Guardians of Cockermouth ; and it was stated as a reason why relief should be afforded to the unfortunate in dividual, that in the firm for which he worked it took the ope ratives six weeks, in consequence of the badness of the materials which were used, to earn as much as they should have otherwise earned in three weeks.—( Hear.) The inquiries of the Guardians confirmed the man's statement. Such was the thraldom, however, in which these unfortunate creatures were held, that the wife most earnestly intreated that no steps might be taken under the Act of Parliament, lest her husband and a crippled son should be thrown out of employment, as they could could do nothing but weave. The same gentleman stated with respect to the truck . system, that though the house in question had not adopted it, yet it was adopted by a firm, one member of which had been in town as an Anti-Cornslaw Delegate. New he had told the House that these poor people had their wages paid partly in goods. He held in his hand a blank form, which was filled up by the book-keeper, and which every poor man had given to him when he left the mill on Saturday night. These were the items deducted from his wages :-- rent, fuel, cash stopped, ditto overpaid—he should say that that was very seldom—tools, fines. Many of these manufacturers had posted up rules, which he had in his possession ; and he fearlessly asserted that if these poor uneducated men, women, boys, and girls, were to study from Monday morning till Saturday night to avoid breaking the rules, it would be im possible that they should succeed, so stringent were they, and so oppressive to the work-people.—(Hear,hear. ) By these fines a large amount was deducted from their wages, to which must be added in many cases twenty, thirty, or forty per cent. for the profit upon the manufacturer's goods. Now the poor work-people were robbed also by the system of trucking cot tages. He had this statement from a poor working man, who had begged him not to give his name. It appeared that the manufacturers kept a black book, which was circulated through the country, and when a man had once given offence, it was impossible for him to obtain work unless he applied for it tinder a feigned name, and men in such circumstances were often compelled to break stones on the road. This poor man stated that the masters had houses which they compelled their workpeople to rent, and those who did not live in them themselves were obliged to let them to others; in several instances rooms which were hired at 2s. or 3s. a week were let by them for 4d. He also stated that many of the manufacturers who kept cows com pelled their workpeople to take two or three quarts of milk per day, and that when the cows were killed they obliged them to take part of the meat. He then read a letter from a clergyman of the Church of England, stating that the truck system pre vailed in the borough which Mr. Villiers represented, and that a member of his Committee, and one of his active partizans, was one of its chief supporters. The men were paid once a month by goods from the " Tommy shop," where the articles of sugar, butter, bacon, and tea, were charged at an enormous profit, it being 50 per cent. on the article of tea alone, while the articles were of a very inferior description. The truck system also prevailed iii Scotland ; in the Coke-bridge Iron Works, near Glasgow, the wages of the men were paid with goods, at a profit of 50 per cent. above the retail dealer. At Paisley the same nefarious system prevailed, and he had a letter from a working man at Glasgow, stating that the iron masters' round that district made their own laws, which the men were forced to obey, and they were of the most hideous cast; if they resisted them they,were carried before the Magis trate of the district, who never failed to decide against the miner. One of the rules was, that if any miner allowed his father, brother, or son, to sleep in his cottage, when not employed in the same works, he was charged double rent for his cottage. Seine industrious men had not received a shilling wages, in money, for the last four yea-s. The truck system was pursued in Ireland as well as Scotland ; he should not trouble the House as to its existence in Wales. The truck system was carried into effect throughout the whole of the manufacturing districts of England. In some places the Anti Corn-law manufacturers had made their work-people pay for Anti Corn-law pamphlets. —( Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") Mr. THORNELY (we believe) expressed his disbelief of this statement. Mr. FERRAND—He had stated nothing that he would not prove before the Select Committee. Nay, if a poor creature was obliged to leave the manufactory to satisfy the calls of nature he was fined. Some manufacturers even made their work-people pay them for their own coffins, for ellen they applied for a few shillings to pay for the coffin of their relative, they were charged at the rate of is. a week per pound sterling for the money. One manufacturer at Sheffield had been fined 101., and others in smaller sums, under a prosecutiun for paying a man's wages in cloth ; but though he had moved for a return of the number of those convic tions, it was not to show that these laws were in force, but to prove to what extent they were evaded. He attributed a great part of the distress of the country to the amount of wages in money withdrawn front circulation, the small shopkeepers never touching any of it. He denied that be had charged the manufacturers of Yorkshire with participating in the truck spstem ; he had expressly :guarded against it. Two names to the declaration that had been published, in denial of his statement, were forged ; and of the names attached to it, one was making 70 per cent. by his cottages, from his workmen. At Idle, in the neighbourhood in which he (Mr. Ferranti) re sided, the truck system was in active operation. He would prove this by the Report of a Government Commissioner.— ( The Hon. Gentleman here read an extract from the Report alluded to, front which it appeared that the truck system was in operation at Wendle, and that the Commissioner had received information on the subject from a weaver, who, however, had requested the Commissioner not to ask any questions, as if it were known that a weaver had given testimony on the subject he would suffer by being turned out of his employment.) 'That showed, as the Commissioner said, how impossible it was to enforce obedience to the law where both the employer and the employed united to defeat it—and so over-stocked was the labour market at the present moment, that the labour ers were compelled to submit to whatever the employer might propose. He would now call the attention of the House to the existence of the truck system in Birmingham, where he be lieved its existence had been denied. He would, however, prove its existence by the testimony of a Gallant Officer there, who in a Report dated Small Arms Depot, Brighton, April 10, 1842, had stated that it was a general complaint among persons employed in the gun-lock trade, that the truck and tommy system was carried to a considerable extent in that trade. That gentleman, however stated that he had felt it to be his duty to issue directions to all persons engaged on Go vernment contracts—many of whom he felt bound to say, discontinued the truck system—to pay all their lock-filers their full wages in money. It was not the first time the British Legislature had been asiced to interfere for the protection of the working classes. On Feb. 17, 1795, Mr. Whitehead had made a motion calling on the House to afford protection to the labouring population, which had been seconded by the late Sir R. Peel, and supported by Fox anti Sheridan. On July 5, 1834, Mr. Littleton had brought in the labourers' wages Bill, on which occasion Mr. Huskisson gave it as his opinion that a great portion of the distress in the manufacturing dis tricts was not so much owing to want of employment as to the existence of the truck system. On the 3d of May in that year, Lord Stanley had presented a petition from Heaton Norris against the truck system, and on that occasion his Lordship said that the truck system was as injurious to the manufacturer who did not adopt it as it was to the labourer who was its victim. On the sth July, 1830, the present Prime Minister of England said that the great evil of the present day was a desire to diminish the comforts of the poorer classes, and that nothing tended so much to add to that evil , as the fact of a manufacturer, makis i g 8,0001. a y ear , endea vouring to make 3,0001. a year more out of the wages of his work-people by dealing in bacon and cheese ; and on that oc casion the present Prime Mioister told Mr. Hume, who was then the chief opponent, that if it were defeated he (Mr. H. ) would rest the responsibility. He (Mr. Ferrand) had now, to the best of his ability, done his duty.—( Cheers. ) If Hon. Gentlemen opposite opposed his motion, on them would rest the responsibility ; and if Hon. Gentlemen refused to accede to it, then he would say to the Right lion. Baronet, as the Right Hon. Baronet had before said to Mr. Hume, that on his shoulders, and on the shoulders of the Government, would rest the responsibility of opposing his motion. He would tell them, also, that a most extensive feeling was abroad on this subject ; that not far distant from that place there were many honest manufacturers, who had come from the North, to give evidence on the Committee he now asked for, and who came to tell them that they must either be honest themselves, or retire from their trade with the character of dishonest and disreputable men. There was a deputation, also, sent there from the work ing men to appear before the Committee, to ask for jus tice. They had no other means of bringing their mise ries and wants before the House ; they had not the power of voting for Members, but they had the rower of appealing to that House for justice and protection, and the object of his motion was to give it them. The present motion might be lost ; if it was it would cause heart-rending affliction among the working classes; but he trusted the Government would consider it to be their duty at once to acquiesce in his motion. He asked for the Committee for the sake of common justice— he asked for it on behalf of the cause of humanity—and last of all, he asked for it in the name of Him who had said " The labourer is worthy of his hire." The Hon. Gentleman con cluded, amid considerable cheering, b, proposing the following resolutions :—" That this House considers as highly criminal the conduct of any person or persons who may attempt to in duce others to give false evidence before a Committee of this house, and will indict condign punishment on all such persons, and will also direct them to be prosecuted. That this House will protect and hear harmless every working man who gives true evidence before any Committee which may be appointed to inquire into the frauds committed by manufacturers and others, to the injury of the trade of this country,. and of the la bouring classes. For a Select Committee to inquire into the existenee of frauds in various manufactures of the United King. dom of Great. Britain and Ireland ; also, to inquire into the existence of frauds and oppressions, either directly or indirectly committed by certain manufacturers of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, upon the persons employed by them; and also by the workers of mines, collieries, and rail ways, upon the labourers in their employment." An lints. MEatBIR having seconded the resolution, The question was put from the Chair. After a pause of a 'few moments, Mr. FIELDEN rose to address the House, but the Hon. Member was totally inaudible in consequence of the indistinct tone in which he spoke. We understood him to say that he believed there was much truth in the statements of the Hon. Member for Knaresborough; but he believed that many of the practices complained of had their origin in bad legislation. Those practices were, at all events, highly discreditable; and it appeared to him to be the duty of the Government to grant the proposed inquiry. Mr. WALLACE said he was exceedingly desirous the in quiry should be granted. He believed there was a great deal of truth in what had been stated by the Hon. Member for Knaresborough ; and he trusted the inquiry would be ranted in whatever form might be thought most convenient. It was, in his opinion, exceedingly unwise to allow a continuance of the truck system under any shape. He thought, therefore, that the Gentlemen would do well if they were satisfied of the existence of the system, to take care to afford some cheap and easy means by which the aggrieved parties might be enabled to obtain justice against the offenders. The great evil of the present law against the truck system, as indeed of all our laws, was that justice, was inaccessible to the poor man. He repeated that he was afraid there was a good deal of truth in the allegations of the Hon. Member ; and as he believed that the truck-system in any form was exceed ingly injurious, he hoped the proposed inquiry would take place, and that the present law which was at least well-intended might be fully enforced. Mr. WA KLEY said that he felt some surprise that no Member of the Government had risen to address the House after the speech of the Hon. Member for Knaresborough. But the Right Hon. Baronet was perhaps anxious to ascertain in the first instance the feeling of the House. He thought a motion of this kind could scarcely be granted if there were a strong feeling in the House against it ; at the same time he could scarcely believe it possible that the Government would resist the motion if there were a strong feeling in its favour. Allegations of that nature were of the most serious character, and affected the interest, com fort, and happiness of millions of their fellow-countrymen, According to the statements made by the Hon. Member the people of this country were the slaves of their employers, and were placed in a state of entire destitution and dependence. In order to do full justice, however, to an inquiry of that na ture it must not be levelled against one particular class of sin ployers. It much be extended to the occupiers of land.— ( Hear, hear, from the Ministerial benches.) Were Hon. Members aware that in Scotland, and to a very considerable extent in the North of England, the truck system prevailed in farms as well as in manufactures?—(oh, oh.) Hon. Mem bers might deny it if they pleased ; but he knew that he was stating the plain, naked truth when he said that the labourers upon farms in Scotland and the north England were paid in kind, and not in money wages.—( Hear, hear.) In order, therefore, that the investigation might be introduced to both classes, he would propose to introduce in line 4, after the word manufacturers, "and occupiers of land," and he hoped that the lion. Gentleman would agree to the amendment. The in quiry would then be general, and they would ascertain who were and were not the oppressors of the poor of this country. —( Hear, hear.) He thanked the Hon. Gentleman for bring ing forward this subject. If in some cases be had expressed himself with a fervour which was not quite prudent, he be lieved it arose from a sincere desire to relieve the people from oppression.—( Hear, hear.) He could himself bear witness to many oppressions under which they were labouring, and he must cordially supported the motion for their investigation. Colonel S1B1110RI ) in supporting the motion, stated that though he had property in the north of England, he had never met with a single instance in which the truck system bad been adopted on farms. He would be most happy that the investigation would be extended to every tenant of his own. Mr. BROTHERTON concurred in the motion, but ob jected to the amendment, because the same act which had ren dered it illegal in the manufacturers to pay wages in kind, had rendered it. legal in the farmer. He believed that unavoidable oppression existed, and he was anxious to see it put down as soon as possible. Sir J. GRAHAM said, if the motion had contained any thing condemnatory of the manufacturing interest it would not have met with his concurrence. He believed that the cases in which fraud was practised were the exceptions, that the general feeling of the manufacturers of this country was that of honest Englishmen, and that the fact that in the long run the fraudulent manufacturer does not prosper was borne constantly in mind by the majority. He could not therefore con cur in any sweeping charges against the manufacturing interest, and on this account he regretted to see in the resoluteni so frequent a repetition of the word " fraud.', ---(Hear,hear. ) Legislative enactments had been propo sed from the earliest pe riod, with a view of remedying the evil, but they had generally proved abortive. With respect to that part of the resolution which related to the giving of evidence, he would remind the House that there was a Sessional Order cn that subject, which provided for all that was required; and that being the case, he thought the first resolution of the Hon. Member was en tirely unnecessary.—(Hear, bear.) The question then nar rowed itself into the payment of wages in goods, and on this subject also the ingenuity of the Legislature had beau for the SYRIA. Dr. BOWRING said, in the interests of humanity, he had a question to put to the Right Hon. Baronet, as to the employment of irregular Arnaut troops in Syria, by the Turkish Government. Their former out rages had already been the subject of representation in the despatches of Lord Ponsonby, and those who were acquainted with the country could not contemplate their renewed employment without alarm. He therefore wished to know if any despatches had been received by the Government on the subject, or if any measures had been taken by them to avert this great calamity ? Sir It. PEEL said that he was glad to find he had re ceived notice of the intentions of the Hon. Gentleman, and of the Gallant Commodore opposite (Sir C. Napier) to put cer tain questions to him with respect to the state of affairs of Syria. Perhaps, as the Gallant Commodore had given a dis• tinct notice on the subject of his question, he would allow him, last century almost exhausted. Thirty new statute. had been passed with a view of remedying the evil, but without effectually removing it. The last was that proposed by his Noble Friend, Lord Hatherton, and though he was amongst the supporters of that measure he was not of the number of those who were sanguine of its success. In prosperous times the lehabourer was master over his employer, and little difference then ex isted between them; but in times which were less prosperous there would always be a strong temptation to the employer to reduce the wages of his work-people. To dismiss his workmen was the last thing which he would resort to, and he was driven to these evasions of the law, in order to retain him in his em ployment, There, indeed, the workmen was no longer the master of his employer, but was dependent upon him ; and he was given to understand, unless he consented to a change, either for rent or for goods, ho would no longer be employed. He was perfectly aware of what had been stated by the Hon. Member for Salford, that there were exemptions made under Lyttelton's Act. One of his (Sir J. Graham's) great objec tions to the proposed Committee was, that he thought it would tend to aggravate the hostile feelings which existed between the manufacturing and agricultural population of the country. What he would recommend was,that a motion should be proposed to this effect, that a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the operation of the law which prohibits the payment of wages in goods instead of the current coin of the realm, and in direct violation of the existing enactment. (The Right Hon. Baronet here became scarcely audible). He did not question the advantages that would arise from the institution of the most rigid inquiry. The Hon. Member for Salford ex pressed a wish that. the Committee should be fairly constituted. lie (Sir J. Graham) for one could not for a moment wish the appointment of the Committee to be conceived in am other spirit. He would merely recommend what he had proposed to the consideration of the House. Probably any Hon. Gentle man could suggest a defect in the proposition, and if so, be should be happy to listen to it. He believed, there was an amendment before the House, but he thought It eat uld be regular to submit his proposition as an amendment to the motion of his Honourable Friend. He thereforelmoied that a Select. Committee be appointed to inquire into the °pet-atom of the law, which prohibits the payment of wages in goods otherwise than the current coin of the realm, an indirect vio lation of the existing enactment. Mr. FERRAND wished to ask the Right Honourable Ba ronet whether his motion would extend to inquiring into the existing frauds. Sir J. GRAHAM'S answer was inaudible in the gallery. Mr. S. WORTLEY said the Right Baronet had partly an ticipated what he had to say, as be had intended t o havesug gested a somewhat similar course to that of the Right Hon. Baronet. What he (Mr. S. Wortley) had intended to have proposed was, that a Committee should be appointed to exa mine the Ist and 2d Will. IV., to ascertain how far it was practicable more effectually to protect the labouring population. He thought, as the subject had before been inquired into, that it was a fit subject for inquiry, on the part. of the House, at the present moment. He thought his lion. Friend, who had brought the subject under the notice of the House that night, could nut deny that the remedy he (Mr. S. Wortley) had proposed, was calculated to meet the evils com plained of. But, still, lie was not so sanguine as his Honourable Friend. He thought that his Honourable Friend had assumed rather more against the manufacturer than he was warranted in doing. To many of the frauds com plained of by the Hon. Member, he (Mr. S. Wortley) could not see how it could be applied. In the case of watchmakers, if they made defective watches no one could compel thorn to make them better. Therefore he could not help thinking that there was much difficulty in the motion of the Hon. Member, and he therefore thought the course ho (Mr. S. Wortley) had adopted was the best. Mr. MUNTZ said that it was a very extraordinary thing, that after great charges had been made against the manufac turers of the country for three months, that they should end in an abortion at last. He said an abortion, for he confessod that no legislative enactments could possibly prevent the truck sys tem. He felt that it was impracticable, and if the House would allow him, he would explain how it was impracticable. It was not at all necessary for the party who committed this crime, as it was called, and in some instances might be called so—it was not at all necessary that that party should support a shop in the neighboarhood of the manufactory. It was not even necessary fur him to name the party in the shop; all that he had to do was in some way, directly or indirectly, to have this person recommended, and those parties who did not buy at the shop very soon found that there was no more work for them. Therefore the motion was as complete an abortion as ;mulct be conceived. He did hope that. the Right Hon. Baronet would extend his motion, and give the Hon. Member for Knaresborough every scope to prove all his charges. He (Mr. Muntz) had never taken any part in that dispute, for he frequently thought the subject unworthy of the time of the House. He was connected with a large manufacturing dis trict, and he did not hesitate to toll the Hon. Gentleman that lie had been grossly made use of. The Hoe. Gentleman sought inquiry into the truck system. Ha (Mr. Alunta4 had been connected with one of the largest manutacturing districts, and he only knew of one instance in which that system had been practised, and it was practised in so easy a manner that benefit seemed in that instance to be the result. It was the great distress in the country that made the truck system prevalent. Make the working classes independent of the master, and he defied any man to truck. It could not be done if the work-people were independent, and could go from one master to another.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") There was a cause for all this ; and they were looking at the effect, and not the cause. It they appointed this Committee it would be utterly useless in the end, and no benefit would be derived from it; as be had said before, they could not prevent the truck system. Now, with respect to the inquiry into the frauds carried on, he (Mr. Muntz) had been extensively connected with the export trade, and he must say that the complaint ought not to have been made against the manufacturers, but against the price of the articles. He had known penknives made of cast iron. The parties towboat they were sold knew that they were made of cast iron, and when he told the house that these knives were sold at a penny each he did not think that any one mould expect to see finely polished steel at that price.—( Laughter.) He had bought thousands of grow of scissors at 3s. 6d. a gross, and he did not think any one could expect finely polished scissors at that price? These articles were made to suit certain markets, and it was absolutely necessary to make them. What was the use of their taking good scissors into a country where they could not sell them ? If lion. Gentlemen had had as mash expe rience in selling and manufacturing these articles as he had they would know he was speaking the truth. He hoped the Right Hon. Baronet would allow the Hon. Member for Knaresborough an opportunity of proving his charges. Mr. PLUMPTRE had been in many cotton raanufae toi ies, anal he believed it was the usual practice to thicken cer tain cotton goods with flour. With respect to the other goods alluded to by the Hon. Member for Knaresborough, such as watches of a very inferior description, and cloths made of dust, he believed that although such inferior articles were mantes factured, they were sold at extremely low prices, and therefore there could be no complaint on that subject. Mr. R. YORKE considered the proper form of the resolu tion was that proposed by the Hon. Member for Knaree borough, and he should therefore support it. Mr. M. PHILIPS said he came not to palliate or defend any sort of fraud committed by the manufacturers ; but he dial think that discussions like the one which had taken place that night would Cause great injury to the trade of the coun try, and if an inquiry were enteredinto before a Committee of the House of Commons it would attract the eyes of fo reigners, leading them to believe that, the subjects to be in quired into arose from the general condition of the manufac turers of this country. .It was upon this ground that he deprecated any inquiry, such as that sought by the Honourable Member for Knaresborough. With re ference to the truck system, he should wish to say a few words. He was not aware whether or not it was practised in his district, but the only circumstances with which he had either advocated or been concerned with respect to the truck system was, when parties were residing ir. isolated districts, but when population grew up, and large towns arose, he thought then the trade should be open and free. lie did not stand there to justify the truck system, far from it; but to express his regret that the laws which had been passed to put that system down had not been carried out.—( Hoar, hear.) Ile thought if the Honourable Member for Knaresborough was prepared to carry out his motion with respect to fraud on ma nufactures, it ought not to be of so limited a nature as he had proposed, because there could be no doubt that in manufac tories there were many other articles in which fraud could ba practised. He thought that many of the observations of the Hon. Member, with respect to foreign trade, were misplaced, especially those relative to the Brazils. He stated that our exports to that country were decreasing; now he (Mr. P.) could not accede to that. There had been an enormeusslave trade carried on between the Brazils and Africa, and he be lieved that many of the articles manufactured in this country and sent to the Brazils, were sent there for the purpose of the traffic in human blood. He had been in the Brazilian trade himself, and he was happy to say that the firm which he joined had never sullied its character, honour, or Christian feeling, by supplying articles to the Brazils that were for the Africantrade. With respect ,tp flour, he would ask the Hon. Member for Knaresborough whether it was possible to make cotton of cer tain fabrics without flour ? He believed that there was hardly an instance of such a thing. It was true that at one time a large weaving establishment had been driven by the high, price of flour to the use of sago.—( Hear.) The Hon. Gentleman then referred to the evidence of Mr. Win. Graham, from which it appeared that flour to the amount of some millions was annu. ally used in the thickening of cotton. He thought that the Right Hon. Baronet opposite had adopted a most discreet course, but he did not think legislative enactments would put down frauds of the description adverted to by the lion. Member for Knaresborough. In conclusion be begged to say, that he cordially concurred with the propriety of the investigation pro posed by the Right Hon. Baronet. Mr. COBDEN did not rise to disturb the harmony of the debate, but he thought it was his duty to call the attention of Hon. Members on that side of the House to the state of the present question. The subject had been mooted by the Hon. Member for Knaresborough, on he belie Vet the fifth night of the debate on the Corn-law question. The Hon. Member had on that occasion made peehaps one of the strangest speeches that had ever been heard in that House. He was cheered loudly by Hon. Members opposite, and by the Bight Hon. Baronet, the Member for Dorchester. The lion. Member for Knaresborough had repeated his charges again that night, but he had taken a wider ranee. He now said that his charges were levelled against the whole mining interest of Lanarkshire. Mr. FERRAND—No. Air. COBDEN had taken down the Hon. Member's words, and he had referred to Glasgow and Ireland. Mr. FERRAND—No, no. Mr. COBDEN must repeat again that he had taken down the words, and he must distinctly state that they were made use of. Now he (Mr. Cobden) would state, that the iron masters of Ireland and Lancashire were net members of the Corn-law League. The lion. Member for Knaresborough had even gone further, and taken in the ironmasters of Stafford shire. It appeared, therefore, that a great change had co me over the lion. Member. He no longer TIOW made it a party question, or an attack upon the manufacturers in a certain dis trict, but be took in the whole miners and ironmasters, and roundly asserted that they were connected with the truck the tame B a step et Baronet on system.—( Hear, hear) . The Right Honourable Baronet, the Member for D orche,ter, had fairl y laid o p en the question. But why did he before? Why should he allow the charge to he levelled ? i:he no ß t tak e r ight 1-en ou achleaeinr:td a a nd pa s r m ti i c l u ed la w r I p ie a n rt t y he Hon. Member for'Kuareshoreugh was charging one political party, but when there was no longer oceacion for that, when the charge was made general, he adopted a very different course. Now what was the fact ? Why when the lion. Member for Knaresborough made his first attack, upwards of 10,000 copies of his speech were printed in the manufacturing districts of England. He (Mr. C.) cenfessed that he did not attach much importance to the lion. Member for Knaresborough's statements, because he had made them upon such insufficient evidence, but he looked certainly with surprise at the rapturous applause the speech of the Honourable Member for Knaresborough had met with from the other side of the House, and particu larly from the Right Honourable Baronet opposite. The whole of the ironmasters and the mining interest were now mixed up in this question, Alr. FERRAND—No. Mr. COBDEN—I presume I am to understand the manu factures are included. Mr. FERRAND—Yes. Mr. COBDEN presumed that the inquiry would embrace all parties. Mr. FERRAND replied in the affirmative. Mr. COBDEN did not think, as some Hon. Members had stated, thatthe inquiry would injure the manufactures in foreign countries. He did not think that it would affect the trade of this country with them, because he thought it was absurd to In I= of .a If' ;, es 1 bo lot 0 0 ,a: sir ics rtg ;rf 4, ,go .~i iC aT 10 . , f 4.- 1 1 : ,4 ' :tib" hell ltll, th• led