The Sun. — London, England, 1842-03-23 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, MARCH 22. mille LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Wool et Five o'Clock. THE NEW BISHOP. The Bishop of CHICHESTER took the oaths aad his seat. . QUEEN'S PRISON BILL. A message from the Commons brought up the Bill for consolidating the Queen's Bench, Fleet, and Marshalsea Prisons, which as read a first time. A message from the Commons brought up also the Birmingham and Liverpool Junction Canal Bill, whicb was read a first time. EDUCATION IRELAND. Lord BANDON presented a number of p etitions from various paiyOf Ireland, in favour hf the Church Edu cation Society in Ireland. NATIONAL gPUCATION IN IRELAND. The Earl of.MOUNTCASHEL presented four peti tions. from places in the county of Cork, against the present system of National Education in Ireland. The 1;oble Lord said that he entirely concurred in the prayer of these petitions, and that he rejoiced to see the subject attracting so much attention in Ireland. CORN-BILL. The NOBLE EARL then presented a petition from the millers of Tipperary against the introduction of foreign fluor. ABORIGINES. The NOBLE EARL also presented a petition from an individual, praying for protection to the aborigines in our colonies. THE BRIDGES. Lord PRUDHOE presented a petition praying that Waterloo, Southwark, and Vauxhall Bridges might be thrown open free of toll. MAYNOOTH. The Bishop . of LON IiON presented a petition from iiorne place in. Middlesex, against any furtaer grant to .he College of Maynoo:h. LAW IMPROVEMENT BILL, Lord CAMPBELL postponed the second reading of the Law Improvement Bill until Thursday, Bth April m xt. MECHANICS' INSTITUTIONS.—INCOME TAX. Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from certain members of Mechanics' Institutions, praying that those institutions might be exempt from the window and other assessed taxes. He would take that opportunity of ex pressing a hope that some clause would be introduced into the proposed Income Tax Bill to exempt the funds belonging to these useful institutions from the tax. Alt charitable institutions, and a great number of the institutions of a collegiate character had been exempted from the former income tax. Mechanics' Institutions were not in existence at that time, the first having been e.tablished in England in 1823 or 1824. There were now upwards of four hundred Mechanics' Insti tations in existence, and he hoped some measure would be adopted to exempt them from the income tax. T.e trusted that during the recess his Noble Friend would give his attention to the income tax proposition, in order that it might press less inquisitorially on the higher class of merchants, whom in fact it would principally annoy. Some of those had been saved from 1,0001. to 3,000/. a-year by the reduction of the postage rates, and he was sure they would rather agree to pay what had been saved to them thus than to have their private affairs exposed by the agents of the income tax. WELSH CLERGY. Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from several clargymen in Leeds, natives of Wales, against the ap pointment of clergymen to benefices in that Principality who did not know the Welsh language. On the motion of the Earl of SHAFTESBURY, the Imperial Assurance Company Bill was read a second time, ADJOURNMEST OF THE HOUSE. The Duke of WELLINGTON said he had given notice yesterday that the House would adjourn this d L) :over the recess, but he found it would be convenient fur the House to meet to-morrow (this day) for the purpose of receiving her Majesty's commission for pars ing certain Bills, and he therefore moved that the House do then adjourn till to-morrow, for the purpose of re ceiving her Majesty's commission. • The House then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, MARCH 22. The SPEAKER took the Chair shortly before Four o'Clock. BLACKWALL RAILWAY BILL. Mr. Sheriff Magnarand Mr. Sheriff Rogers appeared at the Bar, and presented a petition from the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Common Council of the City of London, against the Blackwall Railway Act Amend ment' Bill: CLERKENWELL IMPROVEMENT BILL. Mr. MARK PHILIPS brought up the Report of the Committee on the petition for the Clerkenwell Improve n.ent Bill, and leave was given to bring in the Bill. YARMOUTH AND NORWICH. RAILWAY. On the Order of the Day for the second reading of this Bill having been read, Lord DALMENY rose to propose as an amendment, that the Bill be read a second time this day six months. Numerous petitions had been presented against this Bill, as it passed over a great quantity of land in the vicinity of Norwich, which was exceedingly valuable for building purposes, which by this Railway would be much deteriorated, and for which no adequate compensation could be expected from the Railway Company, in con sequence of their want of funds. Besides this, the River Yare—a large river, navigable for .vessels of consider able burden—ran exactly parallel to the proposed line of Railway. Ile believed that the public would derive no advantage from the constructing of this Railway, and he begged leave, therefore, to move that the second read ing be postponed till this day six months. - Mr. WILSHIRE hoped the House would not sanction the amendment of the Noble Lord. By this Railway the time of transit from Yarmouth to Norwich would be re duced to one hour instead of four hours, as at present. He thought he was not asking too muchl when he re quested the House to allow the Bill to be read a second time. After a few words from Sir C. B. VERE, which were inmdible in the gallery, Mr. R. STEWART said that it was proposed to carry the railway through some very valuable marshe s, which had lately been drained at considerable expense ; and he thought that as the proprietors of those marshes might be injured by the undertaking, they had reason to complain upon the subject. He ad mated, however, that any objections should in his opi nion, yield to considerations of public interest, if it could be shown that there was a probability that the line-would. be completed between Norwich and London. But as no arrangements had yet been entered into with that view, he thought the House should not for the pre sent proceed with the • measure. He would, therefore, vote for the amendment. After a few words from some Hon. Members in sup port of the original-opinion, Strangers were ordered to withdraw, and the House divided, when there appeared — For the motion For the amendment • l6 Majority fur the motion —59 The Bill was then read a second time. BIRMINGHAM AND LIVERPOOL JUNCTION CANAL This Bill was read a third time, and passed. WEST STIRLINGSMIRE ROADS. The Report on the Wczt Stirtinglishire Roads' Bill was brought up. GREAT TORRINGTON MARKET BILL. On the motion of Sir J. Y . . BULLER, the Great Tor rington Market Bill was read a second time. PRIVATE BILLS. Lord G. SOMERSET moved that no Committee on a Private Bill shall commence its sitting after Easter till Friday, the Bth day of April next.—Agreed to. LIVERPOOL IMPROVEMENT BILL. On the motion of Sir HOWARD DOUGLAS the Liverpool Improvement Bill was read a second time. BUNSEN'S NATURALIZATION BILL. On the motion of Sir B. HALL, Bunsen's Naturali zation Bill was read a second time. The Guarantee Society Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed. On the motion of Mr. PAKINGTON, the Severn Navigation Bill was read a third time and passed. Mr. WODEHOUSE presented a petition from Nor fo:lc, praying for increased protection on flour. Lord BERNARD presented a petition from Cork, complaining of the delay of Post-office communication between that city and London, and praying that a line of direct communication might be established between Bristol and Cork ; also several petitions from places in the counties of Cork and Limerick, against the present sy s• em of National Education in Ireland. Mr. PRAED presented a petition from Lancaster against the Buildings' Regulation Bill. An HON. MEMBER presented a petition from Gloucester against the Boroughs' Improvelnent Bill. Lord WORSLEY presented a petition from 1,400 persons in Lincolnshire, against the Corn-laws, proposed by her Majesty's Government. ' Mr. SCHOLEFIELD presented a petition from a seating congregation in Birmingham, praying for 4 t o t a l repeal of the Corn-laws. Mr. BANKES preiented a petition from the inhabi tants of the borough of Wareham, against the proposed duty on clay. Mr. SHARMAN CRAW — .OR - D presented a petition from th e i n h a bi tants of t l .4e burgh e of Haddington and its vicinity. The etiti`,ners stated their alarm at the de termination a the duties on „ our Honourable House to maintain ;ovastaofand depressed provisions, notwithstanding the ~peai of those duties ; and that nothing short of a total r. also stated that d utics would give any real relief. House could not possess the .sontidence of the people the present limited state cd the franchise; they eo of the Suffrage to all male r ic l therefore prayed for an extension of age, of sound mind, anpitants twenty-one sears They also prayed for V o t e by Ballot, as of crime. as a protection against undue influence and intimid. • ation of various de scrip POOR LAWS. An HON. MEMBER on the Ministerial benches .. pre state of the navy under the consideration — of the Muse. sented a petition from a place in Leicestershire, against the Poor Law. with a view to its improvement, said, he trusted WAR IN AFFGHANISTAN. the Hon. Member would not suppose that in bringing Dr. BOWRING presented a petition, agreed to at a forward this notion, lie was actuated by party purposes, public meeting in Dublin , p ra y in g that the question be- He hoped also that the Right Hon. Baronet would not t a cell our country and the JWlgh ar i s mi g h t be brought to suppose that he meant any disresptct towards him. His a termination by other means than that of war. only motive for bringing this measure before the House BOROUGHS' IMPROVEMENT BILL. was, that it might be fully understood by the represen- Dr. BOWRING presented a petition from the inha- tatives Of the people. It had been for a tong period the custom to place 'a civilian at the head of the Board of bitants of Little Bolton, praying that they might be ex cluded from the operations of this Bill. Admiralty ; and to that system he was decidedly opposed. METROPOLITAN BRIDGES. Ile believed that a civilian placed in such a situat on could Mr. COLVILLE presented a petition from the north not have the smallest knowledge whatever of many of the details which might come under his notice; and it was distri c t o f L am b et h, in b e h a lf o f t h e o pening of South wark, Waterlo o , an d V aux h a ll B r id ges . im p cs,ible without some practical experience to carry on THE INCOME TAX. the business of the navy in a proper manner. Parties so called , upon to -discharge functions for which they Mr. WARD rose to wereo_ ten _ .,,,.t.„, o n„. l l!s res 3 c t :ii ii. -. . . l'.,re not fitted by their previ,u c - 'f habitants and 1 i ta 1 ei , Ten from the in- . Cambridge, ai,, , aiut. 1.1,15 ' L A) , u3.,..5-tn in th'y cou.nty of obliged to call in friends of thciri . ,iU ll r er the n . p ue u ' rpose of re u.,,,i,...11 th,2 petitioners I designated as impolitic, pa r ti a l, ceiving advice, to the prejudice of the public service, In 3ust, and subversive of the morality of the country. They prayed the House therefore, not to pass into a law measures so unjust, so impolitic, and so partial. Tne SPEAKER was understood to say that no peti tion; against a tax pending in the House could be re ceived. Air. WARD therefore withdrew his petition. BREWERS' CASKS. his opinion the Navy should 'be ruled by a Commander-in-Chief ; and he believed there were many others who coincided with him upon that subject. But at all events he saw no reason why the navy should not have an officer at its head, as was the case with the Ordnance, and why that officer should not be Master of the Board. He certainly could see _no reason why the navy of the coun try should be ruled by a civilian, who divided the re sponsibility with the Board, while the one would be ready to throw- -it - back upon -the other. In - a late debate in the other House, Lord CORN LAWS. - Minto had very clearly shown that there was some- Mr. VILLIERS presented petitions from several thing wrong in the constructfon of the Board. places in the counties of York and Durham, and the It appeared that Lord Minto had sent out an Quakers of Darlington, praying for the total and imme- order to Sir Robert Stopford, • which was diate repeal of the Corn-laws. liable to some misunderstanding, and that a desire very ne- Mr. 31. J. O'CONNELL presented a petition from the turally existed upon his part as a Cabinet Minister that the County of Kerry, praying that a Post-office communica- Board should not be fully acquainted with his intentions.- tion should be instituted between the south of Ireland and The - Right Honourable Baronet, the other even- Bristol, by way of Cork. Also a petition from Tralee, ing, had stated that the navy, while under the conduct of praying that some measuremight be adopted with respect civilians, had been well managed, and in proof of that to the Roads in Ireland. position he named several general actions which were Mr. HOWARD presented a petition, praying that fought while the nary was under the conduct ofeivilians. certain restrictions might be imposed on the importation He (Sir C. N.) was well aware three general actions had of foreign flour (as we understood). been successfully fought while Lord Spencer was at the Mr. BARCLAY presented a petition from the mem- head of the Admiralty - ; but he presumed they would hers of the New Providence Building Society of Sunder- have been fought with the same effect though a land, praying for an alteration in the Buildings' Regula- naeal officer had been in Lord . Spencer's posi tion Act. tion. The glorious battle of Trafalgar had been 1)r. BOWRING gave notice that to-morrow he fought under the Administration ofa civilian, and the ac should ask a question of the Right Hon. Baronet rela- don of Copenhagen, which was one of the most severely tive to the ill-usage of the Bishop of Jerusalem. contested engagements in the annals of the British navy, Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL said, as the Hon. Member was fought under the Administration of Lord Spencer. for Kilkenny was not in his place, he begged to post- Independently of what he had stated, he believed the pone the motion of which he had given notice, relative to mutiny of the Nore would not have taken place if a Crown witnesses in Ireland, till the 12th April next. naval officer had been at the head of the Admiralty. Sir G. CLERK brought up, by the order of the House, That mutiny arose from the submissive remonstrance a certain paper relating to Exchequer Bills, of the sailors being unattended to, which would not have POOR OF STOCKPORT. been the case if an Admiral had been at the head Mr. COBI)EN moved for a copy of the evidence taken of the Board. He asked, would the disasters which by the Commissioners appointed to inquire into the poor happened to the Baltic fleet, and the loss of of Stockport. 4,000 men have taken place in consequence of the DORSETSHIRE MAGISTRATES. fleet being kept at improper seasons in that sea, Mr. BANKES said he hoped the House would indulge if an Admiral had had the management of the navy. him for a few moments while he.answered the question Dnring the American war, under the administration put a few nights ago by the Hon. Member for Liskeard of Lord Melville, ships had been ssnt out (Mr. C. Buller`. He (Mr. Buller) directed attention to improperly manned, and two or three frigates some statements which appeared in the public press, and had been taken by the Americans, in conse he said he had other sources of information respecting quence of which the French took courage them with regard to which he wished some inquiry and again appeared in the seas. He believed that in should be made. The substance of his remarks was, 9 frigate actions in the American war, 4 had been drawn that in the county of Dorsetshire the magistracy there battles. He should now mention a fact that might be had expressed their disinclination to recognise the displeasing to Honourable Gentlemen on this side practice of the Judges ordering public prosecutions by of the House, but when wrong was done, either counsel at the assizes at the public expense, and he (Mr. by Whig or Tory, they ought to be told of it. Buller) inferred that, in order to avoid that proceeding, It was under a cis hien, and during the administration of the Judges, the magistracy had, in some instances , of the late Boar d of Admiralty that their fleet ran the adopted a course which he considered improper, namely, risk of being defeated in the Mediterranean, that of referring cases from the Assizes to the Sessions. from being improperly manned It was against He was quite sure that the Magistrates had never taken the judgment of many naval officers who such a course as that adverted to, for the sake of de- frequently wrote on the subject to tho Ad feeling by a side wind, or by any indirect miralty, but though the Board bad all the means a proceeding of the Judges, which power they could never get the ships properly manned. they (the Magistrates) might think inexpedient. They not only ran 'the danger of being defeated in the But every assize they had remonstrated and would still Mediterranean, but their naval force. was not kept remonstrate against the practice, because they up to its proper amount in the West Indies, thought it an unnecessary expense not only to the when an overwhelming French force might have been country, but to the public at large. They brought against them in the event of a war. had requested the Judges to discriminate between What happened in the 'West Indies two years ago what cases did require the assistance of counsel n:ight happen again; he did not think their re and those which did not ; but he was quite certain they lations with Foreign Powers were in a very comfort had adopted no such course as had been adverted to , a s able state ; and though - they reduced six sail of the line the information he had received confirmed what he had he thought it was extremely dangerous to reduce a Stated. The Hon. Member for Liskeard was correct single line -of-battle ship.—(Hear, hear.) He thought in point of f'act, as some offenders were left over it a very great objection to the Admiralty that it from the last assizes to the ensuing sessions ; should be a political board. It was perfectly well kre ,wn but in that case there were five persons included in one that in this country it was morally impossible to resist charge, which was a charge of swindling the poorby going politicalinfluence. Still, he thought there ought to be some about the country and selling them articles on false sam- degree of decency in making promotions; this was formerly pies. The magistrates were desirous that this case should the case, but had not been regarded since the passing be brought under notice, but the prosecutors were so poor, of the Reform Bill. During the naval administration that they stated if they were obliged to appear' against of Lord Melville the Dundasses were favoured; then came the prisoners within the limited period fixed for the As- the Greys; since ',then had been the Greys and Russells; sizes, they would not be able to find funds to carry . on but promotion among them had been much more moder. te the prosecution. The Magistrates, however anxious than might have been expected. The Right Hon. Baronet they might be that the case should proceed, did not had no relations in the navy. Then came Lord Minto. think it right ,to provide the funds themselves, And what did he do ? Why, he ransacked all Scotland and thus make themselves both judges and prosecutors ; to find an Elliot—(Great laughter)—and when he had and, therefere, committed the prisoners to the sessions, exhausted Scotland, he sent to Plymouth in search of another in order to give the poor prosecutors time to provide the Elliot—(Laughter)—and when he could find an Elliot nowhere money for the prosecution by subscription. • This course else, he discovered one at the Cape of Geoct Hope. He (Sir had not been attended with any inconvenience to the theC- E Napier ) lot ofhtahlethCat e e l a o y f re G c o e o iv d ed H a letter, informing oinfloardmninegv never r im se that d prisoners ; there being no prosecutors, they were dis a day in the navy, was r taken and m u lle atorekeeper of Halif v a e x, charged by the Judges on the gaol delivery. a post that should have been filled by a naval officer.—( Hear He would merely advert to the charge of Mr. Jus- hear.) He hoped the present Nob!e Lord Auld not follow tice Erskine to the jury. He recognised the peaceable that example. He (Sir C. Napier) had no objection to Lord condition of the people. He ' (Mr. Bankes) trusted Grey, or any other Minister, promoting a relative of his, so that it would not be allowed to go forth to the public long as they were deserving; and he must say that Captain that in the county of Dorsetshire, more than any G. Grey was a very excellent and gallant officer, as was also other county, -the Magistrates had neglected their 'his brother. But what he (Sir C. Napier) complaieed of was, duty,' and still less that they should be actuated by the cruel partiality shown in some of these promotions. Captain improper motives in discharging those duties. Grey joined the Jupiter at the same time with another young Mr. C. BUTLER said he had merely alluded to the man, named, Dayis. Mr Grey was made post-captain eight inconvenience which had resulted; he wished to state va r rs i ;. a se g v e, and now v‘ he o comman u de t dh ai is e s v e e c r on h d ee frigate n , d while is, against h m no i fa l • n fou , fter that he had no intention whatever to make any attack have .. eyingserved seventeen years n th h e navy, gave up the service upon the Magistrates of Dorsetshire. in disgust, and was now in the coast-guard, which shut him PRIVILEGE.. - out from toe. late - promotion, justly called charity promotion. John Ashworth having been brought to the Bar of The Gall nt Admiral opposite knew well that he ( Sir C. the House, Napier) was telling the truth. Many a time had he seen the , The SPEAKER said—" John Ashworth, the House Gallant Officer go up the Admiralty stairs with a heavy he-rt, has been informed by a report of the Select Committe and come down with a broken one. For the improvement of appointed to try and determine a petition against these defects he (Sir C. Napier) proposed one plan—that was, the return of the Meinber for the Borough of purchase. It was well known, that for every three vacancies Clitheroe, that you on Friday last, interrupted only one was promoted ; that was, that for three men that went , the procedings, and attempted to influence the witnesses. out l of the world, the Admiralty could bring in one in their aces.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) In f a ,ct under the pre. What have you to say in explanation of your conduct ?" p sent system, the First Lord of the Admiralty had the greatest The prisoner—l have nothing to say, ;Sir, only that I difficulty in squeezing in an old officer into the list of promo am very sorry for what 1 have done. tions. If the rule which he proposed for permitting the sale The SPEAKER having inquired if any Hon. Member of commissions were to take place, under the regulation of the wished to put any question to the prisoner, and no Admiralty, these evils would be obviated. He (Sir C. Napier) answer having been returned, lie was ordered to with- would propose that no man should be promoted from the rank draw, and withdrew accordingly. of lieutenant to that of commander without purchase, unless, Sir ROBERT INGLIS said, as a Member of the he had served five years afloat, and that no commander should Committee on the Clitheroe petition, he had witnessed be promoted to the rank of captain without purchase, . unless he the conduct of the party who had been placed at the enablesould have t F a n e s r t vtd or fi d v t e o yseaarstoafLoaotsse who o is a e regulationdto him would forul d bar. The individual having professed his sorrow at romotion that heuld n y ot promote them i t i less they had what had taken place, he would now move that he be t e prope u t at if t ey serve two years as p served h ' time • bt h h d - discharged. lieutenant, or two as commander, they might purchase. By An HON. MEMBER seconded the motion. these means the ; ressure for promotion would be taken off the Lord GRANVILLE ,SOMERSET thought that, Admiralty. and they would be enabled to promote some of under the circumstances, it was not sufficient merely to those who knew a great deal, as well as those who knew no bring the prisoner to the bar of the House. thing. He did not wish to bring the army down to the level Sir ROBERT PEEL said he knew nothing whatever of the navy, but he thought it hard upon the navy, that, at the of the individual's offence, except what had been last promotion, seventy-five general officers should have been stated by Honourable Members on that occasion ; promoted, ,di and i e only forty eLpt ta a i i a ns tb s e ho H uld a have b doing made first twoomhguneloer3 but if this person had misconducted himself tha m n ir al s ti . cling to the w ages of the officers of ° the se before the Committee, and offered such obstruction to its on the list of c a ptains. There were only' nine under fifty proceedings, as would warrant his being called to the pars of age. Was it possible that those men could do their bar, though he would be very much indisposed te duty with the zeal and ability of younger men ? Did not that severity, he thought the proper course would be that show the absolute necessity for a retired list. (The Gallant lie should receive a reprimand. He thought that would Commodore then read an extract from Lord Collingwood's be perfectly in order.—(Hear, hear.) - letters, for the purpose of showing the ill-treatment the navy Sir GEORGE GREY thought that if the party were had r eceived from the Admiralt y in Lord Collingwood's time.) admonished by the Speaker of the impropriety of hi: The retired list which he meant to propose was simely to in- Conduct, it would have a beneficial effect, and prevent crease the number of out-pensioners of Greenwich Hospital, who now get 801. a year in addition to their pay. - He only asked the recurrence of similar conduct. to have them increased from ten to one hundred, and that thee . The SPEAKER having put the question, Mr. LABOUCHERE thought the prisoner ought not should receive 1001. a year each, instead of 801., those pensions e.-s were first lieutenants in the war tisane, and were suffered to to be dismissed without sonic notice being taken of hi: remain on the shelf ever since, with scarcely the meant of hlip offence. A reprimand from the Speaker would be to( porting themselves and their families. He effetely wished the serious a punishment in his (Mr. Labouchere's) opiniei louse to give a small sum as retiring pay, and that could be for the offence committed, but the prisoner might receive- divided by the Admiralty amongst the most efficient officers an admonition on the impropriety of his conduct. who had spent their lives in the service. He had stated the Mr. HARDY said that the offence of the prisoner con- ease of one midshipman who bad been seventeen years in the sisted in this : A witness had been under examination service, against whom no complaint whatever could be ffiade; bUT, h f e rt t m ulw a b ll er he of h m ad id seen, shiP- let this Committee, and was extremely reluctant to give: until at last he quitted it in disgusts d t - n n eT k w i e o re now very mach reduced, himse l f w w n e , l l l ie t sh o o u u g ld t tti t a ‘ t nn midshipman who lead . con ' acted evidence, looking round frequently zs if for a signal from years. -) some one in the room, as if to learn whether hr wouls ' give an answer to the questions proposed to him in his vice as m'dshipman longer than six capacity as witness. On one of the occasions of the wit- another point of great impo: tance was the menhir* of th e ness looking round, the prisoner, who was in the room, tavy. He believed the; within the lest eighteeh months there lifted up his head, and, addressing the witness, said. had been the greatest difficulty In obtaining men. The Qceen "don't answer any questions." That caused great `tad been detained six or Seven months from an inability to interruption to the proceedings of the Committee ; anc : :omplete her complement of men, and had only lately veiled' the Members composing it were obliged to put off the Ste trusted that measures would be adopted b ti t the GoVernment business before them, for the purpose of considering what to remedy an evil which must be attended with Such injurious :onsequences to the country. He belleted thit theite whine 6w was to be done with the prisoner under existing small ships stationed at Liverpool, Newcuttlel Ill'gtol, and circumstances. idler ports, for the purpose of supplying fete ' deficiency • but he Mr. CARDWELL said, that although not in any thought there was another ttlede which might also be adopted. way connected with the individual who had beet By an Act of the reign of Queen Anne, the overseers Of the ' called to the bar ; yet he (Mr. Cardwell) was the onl) poor were authorised to bind poor parish boys is 44n-entices person in that House upon whom he might look as ,eo the merchant service. He thought thole Very 'eicelleht ierru an advocate ; and he therefore felt bound to say, Os Lotion, but might it net be tarried still f4-thel• ?, let.Vit not over behalf of the prisoner, that he was a person totally do- ears of the poor be authorised to aptkrehlllle boys to the mere:taut not be -„,, void of education, and one not likely to be aware that he service for four years, with t condition that at that time they 4 three years, in order was committing an offence on the occasion referred to. should be transferred to a man-of-war for an additional Retied could yet . see He was also dependent upon his own exertions incomplete their naval edaeatlen ?He Sio objection to such an AtrWligiWitit. It could for his daily bread, and had, in consequence, gmatised as pressing to ttize 1 poet- ledy,sello had ttIS suffered severely from the circumstances which lee, tome, and bind him to a profes4iou,=-(Hein ) ) Migiand, as a naritime country. depended tetieely u`yon her seamen ; it was to his being summoned to the bar of the Howe , ' endi . vitiu ' al il ; impossible, therefore, to provide too carefully for the necessities (Mr. Cardwell) therefore trusted that the .. e tb a ; e..', doo 7 i k 'h: Government ot!itht to pay question would meet the induleent 6 .. consideration of the if the naval service.--- i ( t 1 0 1 House. m wer i e n oha rbou r, .after bellig t ceittin tine e little snore attente-; s i t e s 7 ; i: t n he a se :' l ' Ltna. —, • pecitis tit employment to employed oviagtbit th s the Adekyileis es tope- a few words 4 :: um Mr. BARNARD,I rd! in the Befell! stations. h in e da ( c S ia ir g C re . r N sou .) s After t The motion ";as put and carried, when John Ashworth makers, &c., instead of was brourt4 to the Bite in custody of the Serjeant-iii.. tw p o e a r s se c Il e r a tat t , a n t e a i l st l v e. n u e t d o e haven et te a d w w on il d h er t f h ul e eff n e a c y t y in Arin - d . The SPEAKER said—John Ashworth, any interrup tion of the proceedings of this House, or of the proceed- enter . h _ervice. There was another evil to which he waild _ dvert. At the end of the war , nsions of Pell illy Wei' , _ _ Mr. WARD presented a petition from the Brewers in Sheffield, praying that measures might be taken to pre vent brewers casks being &strained for their cus tomers' rents. ings of a Committee of this House, can only be regarded as contempt of its authority', and your in stance the case was mach aggravated by . „the time and circumstances under which the inter ruption was caused, by improperly interfering, with the witness' under examination, and attempting to subvert the endS of justice. Such conduct as this can not pas: without the censure of the House. But the House, always anxious to act with lenity and fbrboarttnee, and taking into consideration the apology whlch you have expressed, and believing that you were not acting on a preconcerted determination, trusts that this reprimand will be a warning to others, that this• House will not again sc leniently look over a similar offence. You are now dis charged from your attendance on this House. Mr. Ashworth then bowed to the House and withdrew. Sir H. PEEL rose to move that the tpraker's address be entered on the Journals 13f the House. The motion was sesontied, and carried with cheers, STATE OF TIIE NAVY. Sir CHARLES NAPIER in rising to bri ng the • a ye .... 3: 4 ; * t e i r te e v G er e y . 1 4- o a n ".ll fi t r fourteen years liberally allowed the t d o ey sea m ir e e h n a l v vi t r h a - e d ys t e t h r:V pen a i ,d ` i e t f t e t i er t v t ie Lot a t W v e h y t y g .:., tee n an e: av e re a rdn rs mi . tewn T ats h o a nf That ce e r ° ta n inl er Yt t s o t 'lordship. If they wOill'd gto to seamen who hadehrid rears' service small pension, which should be increased at the end of every succeeding five years, so that the seaman might look forward to something like comfort in his old age, they would be doing what was but just, and would furnish motivei to oeathen in the merchant service to enter the navy.- There was attOther subject to which he vroukf call the attention of the Holm It was one that required a great degree of ernsideratiOti. He meant pensions to officers for wounds. It was not known to the House that by the naval instructions, and according to an ,rder of the Queen in Council, her • Majesty reserved to •erself the right of granting pensions to officers whose wounds in the s' rvice might entitle thent to stir h a Min sideration. 'I he Admiralty, however, about 13b yearts igo, h a d rade a regulation directing that no wOundtd efficer should rFF reive a pension for his wounds, unless these wound* ia:!apaci tated him as much as would the loss Of a limb; and that where his wounds were not of such a nature, he should only receive a year's' ' Now that was an unjust and unfair regulation. If resolution was to the effect, That in the appointments to the . Board of Admiralty the advantage of having that Board com posed of naval officers, should be -onside; ed as well as that of hav ing a naval officer at the Board of Ordnance. The second was, That it was the recernmendation of the House that previous to the preparation of the estimate up to 1e44, a plan should be adopted to reward old and meritorious officers. The third was, That it was the opinion of the House, that, with a-view to eco nomy, and to reward the services of deserving naval men, that naval civil situations should be filled up as mush as possible by naval officers, petty officers, and seamen, according to their re spective capabilities, and that a preference in filling up vacan cies in the docka ds should be given to them.—(Cheers.) Mr. WAKLEY seconded the resolutions. The question having been put, Sir JAMES GRA HAM rose and said, that after the frank and manly, and patriotic manner in which the Gallant Officer who had just at down, had brought under the consideratioe of the House, one of the most important subjec's which mid oc cupy their attention, it was unnecessary that he should have pre faced his speech with the observations with which he hat corn menced, namely, that he did not intend to consider that as a personal or party question._(Hs'a:, hear.) Ihe matter was one upon which the whole nati n, awl they, as the representa tives of the nation, felt the deepest interest—an interest far be yond all party consideration. While the greatness and power .of this country depended so moth upon her naval supremacy. it was their bounden duty to attend to every suggestion which might be offered from any quarter for the benefit of the naval service. But any recommendations coming from an authority so high and so respected as that of the Gallant Officer was entitled to peculiar consideration.—( Hear, hear. ) He would now endeavour an shortly as he could to deal with the various topics introduced into his speech by the Gallant Officer ; but he should first say that he thought he owed some apology to the House for addressing them on that occasion. If he did not feel that his former experience had put him in yes. session of some information upon the subject, he should not have ventured to deal with such a subject. He was bound to state that with a due regard to the public service, and with a most anxious feeling that no decision should be taken upon a subject of such vital importance which could be inconsistent with the interests of the state, he could not coircide in the opinions advocated by the Gallant Officer. The first point with which he would deal was the question -of the advantage to be derived by the public from the exclusive services of a naval officer at the head of the Board of Admiralty. The 1 Gallant officer drew his anolegy upon that point from the Corn mander-in-Chief of the army ; but he shou'd at once demur to the ar.alogy. It was detective in one striking particular. The Sovereign devolved the whole command of tee navy on the Board of Admiralty, to whom the whole prerogative, as regarded that branch of the service was c rrernitted. Bet n ith respect to the army the reverse was the fact. The Crown did not surrender to the Commander-in-Chief any portion of its prerogative as regarded the army. The whose discipline of the army came under the cognizance of the Crown, amid all the movetnents of troops were guided by her Majesty, through hsr Secretary of State. With respect to the navy, however, the case was entirely different. But her Majesty exercised no control over naval officers and the whole movement r f ships and everything that regarded them, was in the hands of the Board of Admiralty. It was re markable that while the Gallant Officer was anxious to have the navy placed in a position analogous I o that of the army, seve ral officers, who were sitting on the same side, were desirous, most indiscreetly and unwisely in his opinion, to adopt the ana logy of the army. The Hon. and Gallant Officer had.said that the responsibility of the First Lord of the Admiralty was an imperfect respan , ibility, but that prop ition he (Sir James Graham) deied.—(Cheess ) Both constitutionally and - legs ly. the First Lord. of the Adm raey was responsible, and indeed exclusively responsible to Parlia ment and the public, for his management of naval affairs. There was rem feet proof of that, for in 1782, heft). e the great struggle on the India Bill took plaee, the conduct. of the Ad miralty was made the subject of discussion in both Houses of Parliament. Mr. Fox made a motion, which reflected the greatest censure on the Board of Admiralty. A motion of a similar nature was made in the House of Lords, and Loral Sandwich, who was at the head of the Admiralty, did not screen himself under the Board, but he manfully met the charge, and took upon himself the exclusive respon sibility of the charges against which he successfully contended. He would also expaess his strong opinion that the exclusive patronage would be retained by the person at the head of the Board of Admiralty, for the proper distribution of which he was exclusively responsible. The Hn. and Gallant Officer had let fall some expressions which he heard with regret, re specting the promotion of two young officers in the navy, the two Captains Grey, relatives of the Noble Lord opposite (Lord Howick. ) They had the greatest claims on the naval service of the country. their father being First Lot d of the Admiraly, and to whom the greatest credit was due for the many improve ments he introduced inteethe navalservice, and who, in his old age, might console himself with the reflection of being the most respected, as he (Sir James Graham) knew to be the most honest Statesman which this country ever produced. The Hon . and Gallant Officer had told them that a First Lord of the Admiralty ought to be responsible for the promotions they recommended. What, he would ask, could - be more re sponsibility, than that of a First Lord of the Admiralty, who was likely to be called to account by this-and the other House of Parliament, for the manner in which he had bestowed pro motion? lam bound also to state, that though the knowledge of naval affairs was of the utmost importance in the head of the Board of Admiralty, yet when it was recollected how large a portion of the civil administration was connected with that high office, it would be almost impossible, admitting thsir ta lents, their industry, and indefatigable zeal in the public ser vice, that it would be be better filled by a naval officer. He must be permitted, to say, that a knowledge of civil affairs, in the office of First Lord cf the Admiralty was not of less paramount importance to the country than a knowledge of naval matters. Was it wise, then, under all the circumstances, to restrict the choice of the First Lord to the narrow ground of the naval service? There are, no doubt, come naval officers who were most competent to fill office of First Lord of the Admi ralty, and it - was advisable that the Crown in such cases should select them instead of civilians ; but, he would ask, was it wise, by a resolution of the House, to tie up the discretion of the Crown, by restricting all civilians from the office, and nar • rowing the choice to the few naval officers who might be com petent to discharge the office of First Lord of the Admiralty. He should not ect fairly by the House if he stopped here ,• he was bound to state his full o?i ion of the subject. The Honourable and Gallant Officer had touched on the subject of promotion. The distribution of promotion was an im portant part of the duty of a First Lord, but he must be per mitted to state his opinion, that, while a civilian was First Lord Of the Admit alty, acting under a sense of responsibility as to the patronage Which he admitted attached to the office, he would be more likely to act with strict impartiality to the whole pro fes:ion, than a naval officer, upon whom political influence would operate AS surely and as extensively as on a civilian, while, superadded to that influense, would always be the honest, but strong and irresistible influence of attachment to messmates or follon ers, which he could assure the Honourable and Gallant Officer would greatly preponderate over the ad vantages that might be derived by the navy from having a man of their own profession at the heikl of the Admiralty, He would go further and say, that if the opinion of the whole profession were taken, whether a naval officer ehou'd be exclu sively placed at the head of the Naval Administration, it was les conviction that the strong opinion of the profession would be against it. He (Sir J. a sham) did not think it necessary to follow the Hon. and Gallant Officer through all his points, for he adverted a great deal to former Administratietis; but he (Sir J. Graham) would allude to his remark on the communi cation of the Order of the Cabinet by the First Lord of the Ad miralty, by private letter to Sir R. Stopford. Technically. this might not have been very proper, but it was according to usage, and not inconsistent with censtitteional practice. There were several Gallant Officers opposite who must Well know that such a mode of intercourse between the Firet Lord of the Adnriie ratty and a Cotemander-insChief, wart tilt ilaceffitridni Vie Gellane,Officer thought that, at a critical period, the orders to a Commander-in-Chief, on a foreign station, should be sent only by direction of the Board of Admiralty. There could be no greater error than this. All naval operations were carried on in a different mode. The Board of Admiralty were not allotted to be cognitant riS freat bleat operations froth tithe 1.6 timer Whtln the eipe it oh agaieet Copenhagen was concerted, secresy was of the utmost importance. The Cabinet only were aware of its precise destination ; and they thought that secresy ' only could be maintained by the Board of Admiralty informing Lord Gambier that they should issue their orders thrpugh the Secietary of State Mthe liofite Depailreent. This liad bean time practice in other cases, where secresy and dispatch were necessary. Lord Minto was not therefore fairly liable to cen sure in this instance. The lion. and Gallant Officer said, our naval tuccesses chiefly took lace under the president yof .civilians at the Admiralty ; but l istery did net confirm this; [Comritoclere Napier said he bad it' mated tint three actienehad beet' gained under civilians, and two under naval officers.] Now with regard to the battle of Trafalgar, it was perfectly true that that glorious victory had been gained under the naval administration of Lord Barham ; but it was equally true that all the greet f teearatiens foe that gitirione eiettiry had been Made - by, Lad Bailtioa's preeerresible ,Loret Melville. Lord, Melliille.had itultnie oillc onl the Ajiril pfecedifig the Octoteet in *hleh the battle had been fought, and the merit of the preparations for that great battle was due to Lord Melville's naval atiminieration. The Gallant Officer had talked of Lord HOIST'S . glnritee ftetlere. Now it was perfi k ttly hive that at. the time {hat ticiiiiii wai fotight, Ur' KbiPell. was P,iiit iiit_rd 414 Ailmiliity; hitt Eofil Kti- Mas ,4 lust teerol'e succeeded Lord Sandwich, and in that tatest, to which he had alluded in the other House of Par liament, Lord Sandwich had - claimed the merit of that victory for himself and his colleagues and Lord .Nnrth hime self jiad seed to the. teen, Administration; 4 1 t is true you have gained the eieteix, but the yet relight., with Philipli tredpie." Th . , rnerft of bolt +Peel!, has Ne on= tektabl t dtte kbi IX', not aom , nistratien of Lord Sandwich, While he was on that subject, be would take the opportunity of relating to the House one fact. He. (Sir James Graham) hale lied,tt , d v i l, ,i iln nc t t i b rs, el e i t e i v ,:l e i %, : p o. e t s i st a n CfPdt and t il iat a pi tth se li rSiete liP e ll iritti his late Majesty king , Wilhite the FO4rth.e.e(Cheeis ) Ills late , Mae te e te o e . t pe .. e . dile_ 410 fm that ped , fe . s 7. ee tele Crown ef Ens he jest} had o 4 a h l i t t a ii r e;i lt i tt 4 tli ti e eh st ber —( Loud cheers.) considered it an honour to be a m_ the honour of beieg, iettodocedAr) e Waist total of tot: Adinsaali' iqs J. G l li t h S6intiiVel/t e s '' .I Graham) and iaiaYii lea . jek y a addressed_ film (Sir J.., , that he lie (Sir James Graham) reme mbe h r i ed e la ni t t h e a li t; a lh es e tty n 0 11 4 1 h h , e s d t li ,s a i d r , f i ee - hear en . mind two great . exam- _ (Sir J. pc i.,ai J e . i4 G; p h it a: a ) ii s ti lt d o ci ld t :l b w y q b s sia. . i b s e in a .lat r : i i . l6 - hi -E ii - -- ty : I , n;ci . aivd ... ais:eiiceciesr ii plea in ;the ailminiAtratiph 't)f ttiAl ,strabl• :N""t .4-o*•alpsi No, His ISlajeity had said thtt the two gre at exa mples to which he referred were - Lori), 1 (3 _p r e li r li fb ilm ritte l i d 6.° d - I.l l4a rin ti i it: c i Onti i - 1 and, certainlyy *her) lie Oil. idilirdstraikin tit Ltird Sticittdr, and'onsid6reti the great neat exploits Which had bee n had s o u tt r r in s o e ti ti n tit te: n 4--ahttilittive ti i tu ir cir i i ii b c ti ihl t e rivra fir i :n t e o g: ol . i o b f loh p i ti t r e p B B: ncittce l.lib iild m bi l i6 dlfti6ultiei v hilt Lurpil Spacer Which he had t 1 xhiLiteci-:-the . co h ot fi . d t 7 6 c b w ri i g th ht w es li t ie i li ii h o e i h r d h cl it i v n a : fitidoenncoefhLadorl(eids—pehnececrouLdnooltobiit consider the Havel ailmlnist fa. annals.—(Hear, heai.).„. 1% 1-. Pktt wt i t no. ftlean atithnrity dti live Velful*Vb ilierits a direfent naval adillinistiatibtis. _t 4as imptissible to mentibu the name Of Lord St. Vincent without aatiasiletiglng the akalitudh t4t, Wei title td Ittit frOth the hatir. Lgrd St;,VitiCint A 4 s Flat Ord ht (lib Ailintr a lt hi. t:E.,i pleniftide of his naval rep ulat.on, at !he period when hi 3; well-earned fame gave him unbounded influence over the ser vice; an d yet, 10. ling to Lord St. Vincent's nasal administra tion, it was impossible not to a dmit, that it had not been for t ' .h( Tear 1804, after the experience which t ii .s el n ir a e v r , e i t a l d tl m )e in fi i i i l- - py. - :unate. Mr. Pitt, in the y-- ho had had of the relative'merits of the dill rent naval administra hehad the greatest est eein for an officer was wounded in the leg, so as to mike that leg short er by four inches, he was entitled, according to the above reu lation, to a pension ; but if he had ultimately broken, and a lso, itoiownsirogfolrinrdionSto.nVtihnecemnteraintdofol LordLor Lord t S . P V e i n n e r e :e l n , in consequence, shortened his other leg, so as to put irm on an tration :—" He (Mr. Pitt) could not be guilty of the hypocrisy even keel, he would not be entitled to a pension at a11.._ to sly that that departure was wise; (Hear.) He thought he had now gone over all that it was ne- I the Nobl e L o rd (St. Vincent), but it was in fulfilment of his cessary. for him to say with regard to his opinions of the navy. I (Mr. Pitt's) duty, as a Monti , r of the British Parliament, to He particularly agreed with the lion. Gentleman opposite in , say th a t h e did not a pprove of his Lordship's appointment as the steps whi c h h e h a d ta k en to man t h e navy.—(Lou d First Lord of the Admiralty. He admired the Noble Lord's cries of " Hcar, hear.) But he did not at all agree with talent, and the glorious victories he achieved ;to him (Lord St. the steps the Right Hon. Baronet had taken to fill the Exchequer. Vincent) the British peo ple were indebted for shedding lustre He would now make a statement which he Wished to go forth upon their country ; he believ ed that w hen h's Lordship took to the public, and to foreign na ti ons , b ecause h e h a d observed upon himself the direction of the naval affairs, the public ser a good deal of crowirg in consequence of what be had said v i ce would have d er i ve d g reat benefit from his skill and ex about the British navy being improperly manned. He would feriene he believed that the Noble Lord's name was in itself tell the public, and all the nations an the world, that as the a tower of strength, but be was- apt to think, that between British navy was manned at present, that- they had better his Lordship, as Commander on the seas, and as First Lord of keep themselves quiet on that score.--(Cheers and laughter.) the Admiralty there was a very vast diferetiee As a great and He had now three resolutions which he should read to the successful na v al commander, 1.0 person could hesitate to ad. House, and he should divide the House on ear!i of them sepa- mire the Noble Lord, bat hr (Mr. Pitt) would not shrink ratel). They were drawn up very nacduratei ; —not that he from a duty in censuring the Noble Lord when presiding at drew them up himself, 1;0 still they were moderate. His first the B oar d of Admiralty, as First Lord of the Treasury. THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY MORNING. MARCH 22, itQ42. Those were the opinions of Mr. Pitt, and certainly they were whilst there were two Gallant Admirals -who, if necessary, very applicable to the objections of the Hon. and Gallant could oppose the-proposals of the First Lord. Officer. There was another observation made by the Hon and ' Sir R. PEEL said he s must ask the House to pause before Gallant Officer ( Sir C. Napier) to which he (Sir J. Graham)' it adopted the resolutions of the Hon. and Gallant Officer. could not fail to refer ; he meant the Hon. and Gallant Offi- He thought it would be a bad precedent for the House of cer's otnereatien with reseect to the danger of the British ships Common!, at the instance of a professional mars, however emi in the Mediterranean, as a matter of prudence and precaution. vent, to ' , lace any restrictions on the selection of persons for He (Sir J. &Abe. m) was sorry that an officer of such &Vince the head of the naval administration. If the House should tion as the Hon. and Gallant tfficer undoubtedly woe— think fit to sanction such a restrict on, let them do it in a de ( Hear, hen.)—should have proclaimed to the world that, if the finite and intelligible manner, but not by such resolutions as Mediterranean was attacked. our ships would Lave a good chance these. The first resolution was to the effect that in tee of being defeated. The Hon. and Gallant Officer did not do opinion of the House, the advantage of having the Naval justice to himself in saying so, for, he was sure, the Hon. and Board composel of • naval officers ought to be fully considered. Gallant Officer. and his brother officers, would have been fully He Slid not doubt, taken as an abstract proposition, the propriety able, unit , r any circumstances, to sustain the honour of the of that advanteze being consideied; butlet that consideration be British flag.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. and Gallant Officer ad- left to the same I ower which selected the head of the army. verted to various other points which it would be necessary for The resolution went to Alt m that the whole Board ought to him (Sir J. Graham) to follow ;-..first, the Hon. and Gallant , be compose.( of naval men, and that civilians ought to be ex -Officer recommended a new scheme of purchase in the navy. ' eluded entirely from it. If that was the proposition of the It was impossible that his (Sir J. Graham's) attention was not Gallant Officer, he must dissent from it. Experience, long . called to the subject before; it had been already discussed and usage, and the practice of all Governments, showed that tivi considered ; much might be said in favour of that scheme, but, ' lions should not be so excluded. if it was only intended that upon the whole, he (Sir J. Graham) was of opinion, that it : the head of the Admiralty should be a naval man, the proposi. would only introduce an entirely new system which would be at ten was injurious. Supposing he (Sir R. Peel) had brought variance with the wishes and interests of the British Navy. forward such a proposal when Lord Minto was First L rd— It was true that the effect of political interest with respect to ! could he have continued to discharge its duties satisfactorily ? prom :tion could not he superseded ; but if the interest of if the house s .id that the head of the naval s ervice should at wealth were added, it would be impossible for an unobtrusive a future fme be a naval man, surely 'it was very in man to obtain promotion. But the Hon. and Gallant Office: I consistent that for the present and temporary period, that had suggested anther mode of dealing with the crowded list of officer should be a civilian.—(Cries of " Hear, bear.") captains, which was not open to the same objection. The Hon. 1 The Gallant Officer said he did not wish to cast any reflection and Gallant Officer proposed that there should be a list of aged ' on either Lord Mute or Lord Haddington. He said it would be officers who should, e pecially in time of peace, retire from , impossible to select a civilian, who, in the short time he had active service. He could well conceive that there was advan- ! filled the office, had given so much satisfaction as the present tape in that prop st'ion ; and . he had not understood his Right First Lord of the Admiralty. If he had so conducted himself Hon. Friend, the First Lord of the Treasury, on any occasion as to extort this not reluctant praise from the Gallant Officer, to state that such a Alin was not worthy of the moat serious at. the House ought not to throw a difficulty in the way of his tcntion of the Goverament. But he thought that those were I discharging his duties satisfactorily, by appearing divided questions which might safely be left in the hands of the Execu- I in op nion as to the person who should hold the office tive Government; Ile conceived that to press resolutions of the That would be a most injurious precedent, and a stretch of House of Commons on a subject of that nature was a course I the powers of that House. The Gallant Officer tad himself which, though it might relieve the Executive Government of admitted .that the late Noble Lord at the head of the Admi . great responsibility, would not conduce to the real interest of ralty, as well as his predecessor, had discharged the duties of the service.—( Hear, hear.) Then the Hon. and Gallant Of- their office as well as could have been possibly anticipated from fiver had alluded to the various measures which had from time arty unprofessional men. It would not follow, either, that if to time been suggested with respect to the manning of the the House adopted the resolutions of the Gallant Officer, parties navy ; and he had thrown out a suggestion that it might, be would still be satisfied with the administration of the Board of expedient, when the Pcor.law Bill was under the Admiralty. The House of Commons had formerly worried consideration of the House to introduce some clauses for mak- Lord Keppel, and afterwards Lord Howe, with their resolu ing the overseers of the poor to bind pauper boys compulsory as tions, but no general satisfaction was still given by the apprentices into the service of her Majes•ye Now, be must administration of affairs at the Admiralty.—( Hear, hear. ) say, that he did not think such a proposal would at all increase • Lord Howe was, indeed, worried out by motions.—( Laughter. ) the popularity of the Poor-law—( Hear, hear)—nor did he He made a motion on the subject, but it was .negatived by a think there was the slightest necessity to resort to such a step. majority of, he believed, 50. He was worried out of the House The national taste of British peasants living on the British of Commons--( Laughter)—he was worried out of the office coast would obviate the necessity for resorting to sompulsnry of First Lord of the Admiralty—(Laughter)—but he was . not a! prenticeship ; they would, when necessary, volunteer their so far worn out that he was not able to fight, and fight well, services. —( Hear, hear.) The Hon. and Gallant officer sat the action of the Ist of June, 1794.—(Cheers.) Would the down with referring to the saying of Mr. Tierney, " Give us a Gallant Officer allow him to say, that he did not see any use, well-manned Navy and a full Exchequer, and we may bid de- or any public advantage, in specelating in hypothetical ques fiance to the world—a sentiment in which he (Sir J. Graham) tiers as to the power they possessed. He herd speculations as must cordially concurred." One oortion of it was already to the result of a naval action with France ; but while ' they realised; the Hon. and Gallant Officer admitted that the navy may be proud of their own power, why should they be stirring was well and fully manned. It would be for his Hon. Friends . up ill-will— Chters)—by any speculations whether France to persevere in their endeavours, and the last proposition also on she one hand. would defeat them, or, on the other, whether would be realised ; whatever deficiency there might be, the they would defeat France?-.( Cheers.) He would enter into Exchequer wouldebe repleneshel.—( Hear, hear.) They Pp- no speculation of the kind.—( Hear. ) Theywere now at peace pealed, with c tnfidence, to the w.sdom of Pat 'lament and to the with France. The misunderstanding-which had eubSistedbetwet n good sense and patrietic feeling of the nation ; they had not the them had ceased, and why, then, should they go back to trans • slightest doubt that the Exchequer would be replenished, actions on the coast of Spain and Syria, or speculate on the and when that happy day ariived they you'd bid defiance to results of sin action with France ?—(Chcers. ) While he had tie world. W.th respect to the resolutions of the Hon. and the greatest confidence in the navy of the country he did not Gallant Officer, ts ere were some of them to which he (Sir J. think it wise to make any reference to such a subject. — Graham) had no objection to give an assent, stating his con- ( :tear.) He hoped the House would pause before it gave its viction, however, that the matters to which they referred assent to the motion of the Hon. and Gallant Commodore. would be better left to the Executive . Government. Enter • He (Sir R. Peel) had laid down 'no rule with respect to the ex taining the highest respect for the Gallant Commodore, and elusion of naval officers-(Hear, hear) —but he did not want to for the intentions with which he had brought the present sub. purchace the abandonment of the motion by the ex, ression of jest under the consideration of the House, he should feel him- any hope on the subject. The subject was reserved self, notwithstanding, bound to move the previous question. for the Crown, and he deprecated the House of Commons The SPEAKER having put the question, interposing any restriction on the exercise of the prerogatives Captain 'BERKELEY iii,' not wish to trespass on the of the Crown.—( Hear, hear.) Where were they to stop in House, but as this was a sueject which did not involve imposing such restrictions, if they began once ?—( Hear, hear.) any party question, and was one dear to naval men and to His Right Hon. Friend near him moved the previous question, the country generallys he hoped the House would bear with an - I he hoped the Hon. and Gallant Commodore would, when him for a short time. He regretted that the Right Hon. he considered the relation in which he himself, the relation in Baronet had adverted to a topic upon which he (Captain which the navy, and the relation in which the country stood Berkeley) had differed with these who tad been acting with him with respect to the Crown, deem it the wiser plan to leave the in the Admiralty—he meant the manning of the navy. The Crown to consider what course was best to be adopted. navy was now properly and thorougly manned, and he was in Mr. CHARLES WOOD trusted that the situation which hopes that the subject would be left at rest. But in justice to he had formerly held at the Admiralty would justify him in the Gallant Cfficer who had brought forward the present sub • offering a few observations to the House, and they should be jest, he would mention mac fact, and one only, because be did a,very few ; in fact, had it not been that his Hon. and Gal not wish to meddle with the subject at all—with respect to the lant Friend, who had broue,ht forward the motion had, in tieing circumstance of our ships being placed in jeopardy fi om being so, cast imputations on the character of his Noble Friend (Earl inefficiently manned. Four sail of the line had been placed !Uinta) formerly at the head of the Admiralty, h, (Mr. C. W.) under the command of his Gallant Friend behind him ( en. C. would not have troubled the House at all on the question. With Napier); in the Mediterranean, in 1840. They were short of regard to the general terms of the motion, ho entirely concurred their complement of in: n, and within a day and a halt's sail of , in all that had fallen from the Right lion. Baronet, the Secre them were stationed twenty Egyptian :hips to relieve Bey- tary for the Home Department, and from the Right Hon. rout. Had the enemy bore down upon us, and his Gallant Baronet who had just sat down.--( Hear, hear.) He perfectly Friend were inclined to avoid the action (which was not likely) agreed with them in opinion, that the present constitution of he would not have had it in his power to do so , neither would the Baird of Admiralty was the one, on the whole, most cal culated to be beneficial to the service. Like those Right Hon. he be able, manned as las ships were, to oppose the enemy. He only mentioned this as a proof that ships sailing with peace Gentlemen, .he had no wish to exclude naval officers from the situation of ,First Lord of the Admiralty, but he thought it complements might sometimes be at fault; he hoped , however, wrong and inexpedient to attempt, by a resolution of that that they would never run that risk again. With regard to what the Right Hon. Baronet had said relative to a naval man House, to fetter the discretion of the Crown. He also agreed being at the head of the Admiralty, he (Captain Berkeley) with the Right Hen. Baronet that it was better not to go beck to consider what might have been the result of a collision in the must say, that he could cot understand why professional know tedge. was to be a disqualification for a First Lord of the Ad- Mediterranean two years since. He thought some considera. Lion was due to the opinion of his Hon. and Gallant Friends— miralty—at least not exactly a disqualification—but the Right Hon. Baronet said it was much better that a civilian should be (Hear, hear)—although, he thought that, perhaps, they would at the head of the Board than a naval man. He remembered have acted more wisely had they abstained from giving that epi thet when his Gallant Friend (Sir C. Napier) brought Mon. He fe t mewed, however,that thehonour of the British navy could have been placed in no hands more safely than in theirs, forward a motion rely ive to bishops going to the colonies, he was told that he had much better and that in their hands the honour of the British flag would leave... the matter to those who had the managed thought have been tarnished.—(Cheers.). Perhaps it might be ment of ecclesiastical affairs.—(Hear.) On the same ground thought that from the situation which lie (Mr. C. Wood) had he conceived that a naval man knew much more of naval mat- held at the Admiralty, under Lord Shinto, that he could not be an impartial witness.. On the contrary, however, he contended tors than a civilian could possibly do.—(Hear.) Besides this , that he (Mr C. Wood) had been in a situation to form an im he could assure the House that when a civilian visited the dockyard he had not that weight with the naval officers pareal judgment, for, from the moment he had accepted office, which a naval man would have.—( Hear.) It fell to his lot he had laid down a rule for his own conduct, to which he had once, some time ago, to be appointed to a squadron, ap- rigidly adhered, and that teas, never to interfere in any manner, ! pointed for a particular service. The First Lord of the Ad- or to offer any opinicn, upen any question relating to the pro motionmiralty was expected down. Every officer and man strained of officers —(cheers.) He took no credit to himself his utmost exertions that their several vessels should be on that account, as he considered he had only been doing his turned out in a way fit for a Board of Admiralty to inspect.. duty ; but to that rule he had ever constantly adhered, there- The First Lod came—he was a civilian—every officer was fore, with regard to all such questions, he was merely a looker on, and he felt bound to declare, as an impar anxious that his own -ship should be examined; and every tial witness, that if ever there was a First Lord of the midship Man and lieut nant was anxious to see the First Lord Admiralty Who, in the prometion of naval officers, and that he should inspect every vessel. The Noble Lord had looked solely to the merits and professional claims of the visited only one ship, and went away no doubt very officers, who had taken infinite pains to acquire a knowledge of much tired with the labour of the investigation.—( Hear. ) those claims, and who had been anxious only to do his duty to He was certain that if the Gallant Admiral opposite (Sir G. the claims of those officers, uninfluenced by personal considera- Cockburn) had been at fife time First Lord of the Admiralty, ttons, th,:t man was Lord Minto—(Cheers)—and what' his he would have made it a point to visit and inspect the different Gallant Friend had alluded to an officer bear.ng the same ships, and thus gratify the officers and men. Add to that, name as his Noble Friend, to an officer of the name of Elliot, that it was upon those minute details, with which no civilian he (Mr. C. Wood) thought his Gallant Friend must have been could be thoroughly acquainted, that the efficiency of the navy aware that that gentleman was no relative or connexion of the mainly depended, there was a prevailing feeling the, ughout Noble Earl's.—( Hear, hear.) The merits of that gentleman the navy—he feared not contradiction when he said so—that had been admitted on a former occasion by the Right Hon. they were neglected, and that if they had a naval officer at the Baronet when discussing the naval estimates, and he (Mr. C. head of the service, they would not at least be so frequently Wood) could assure his Gallant Fri rid, that if he adduced neglected. As he had said upon a former occasion, it was iin- possible that a civi fan could enter into the feelings of officers personal pnronage on the part of his Noble Friend, he (Sir C. like abt othereofneer. With regard to the number of promo- Napier) did that Noble Earl (Minto) great injustice. That tions under Lord Miele, and the nettite of those promotions, be gentleman wa , to . ally unconnected with the Noble begged leave to relate a circumstance which had conte tin- Lord, an I liad distinguished cl a ims on the moun der his immediate knowledge. At the Coronation he had try, and whatever might have been the appointment recommended a young man of the best character to Lord Minto which he had recei .ed from the late B o ard, or whatever might . -. for promotion, confessing to him, however, that he was politi be the event of that faveurable consideration of his services catty connected with the borough which he tied the honour to h whieh he (Mr.C. Wood) understood had been promised him reptesetit ; the reply of Lord Mint° tette that he would p t r h 6 a m t r l st ie s. " y i!le present Huard, he owed it all state) , to his distinguished a peeson recentmended by him, bait it *as on condition services, and not to any personal or political connexion what should be entirely ufitmetlected *his Pelitiee, lie did tectem ever: He thought he should be trespassing on the time of the mend a person of that description, who received an advance , Hedge if he seas to attempt to go over the points of the discus ment in the service, while the party whom he, had originally on whichhad obtained a desultory character, anti which could i recommended still remained unpromoted. He mentioned that be l productive' of but little goal. He confessed that h' did not for the purpose of showing that Lord Minto had not been info- agree with what had been seated by many Hon. Gentlemen , on tSpced in the eistribation of his patronage by political motives. with resit - t to the naval service, for he lie had lielfd ndthing CHileii calla iteltfce hltti to thiek that that side of the H believed hat all ‘ tho ( s )u e s n t e :atters of detail were infinitely better left the navy could not be governed by a naval Min as e'ell lard claim He h would only-remind his Gallant as the army was governed by a soldier. Great incon- to ttebe t echtive 1 motion that the Noble Lord venience resul ed from the adoption of a different ' aye- Fe lend, when lie ' to whom he had alluded i l l ' a t d o te Withdrawn a motion of which he tern. In the case, for instance, of an equal division had given notice on his (Mr. W.'s) assurance that the subject Of votesetweeng the Fordshf the Admiralty, the subject would would conic under the consideration of the Board of Ailmi be decided by a 111211 who might, lietseefer, knew nothing of the r alty althou g h it was true that on a subsequent occasion a matter. He also felt that there was so little patronage to tie • • • ' Centtilit tee was appointed in consequence of that motion, and distributed in the navy, that it would be considered the greatest when that Comunittee came to investigate the marine service, boon by the officers that one of their own body should be ap they found that the Board of Admiralty had left them but pointed to preside over the service. He could state that it was little to do. Hitt eptnien; that, there wag mare difficulty in finding officers to TROUBRIDGE said he hoped the House would fill situations, than in find fig situations to give. to officers Sir T. incl7lge him for a few minutes, while he alluded to one or two (Laughter.) There was no reward for all their toil and trouble, awl he trusted that a retiring list would be made for poitite iii the debate on this subject,. The first point was with them. He hoped that, with respect to the dockyards, all respect to the Board df Admiralty as it was at present consti good artificers, having . served a certain time in the navy. tuted. He did not believe that the present system c ould *wild have the firet • eleim to situations in them. b e c han g ed to advanta g e.—( Hear, hear.) He thought —( Hear, heAr: ) it Oeuld be enebtifakitig pereons to enter that the First Lord of the Admiralty was one of the the navy, and contribute to render it populate liff hid one Word most important of the Cabinet Ministers, and he thought he should be borne out in this. His opinion was, wherever there of that House, who were more than sixty years of age, were to say with respect to the ages of Admirals. • Hon. Members was ti Min of high character and standing in the country, exempted from serving on Flection Committees, and yet they wherever 1 hatftlan omelet be found, that was the man most h fit- e Settt, Men at sixty and seventy years of age to contend with the tang for the First Lord of the Admiralty. In s 40:tiervi and the ,euemies of the eottntt ..-e( Hear, hear.) did not exclude naval officers ; a naval man ofh h standin Hattilig heard nothing to sheer that meal o core *ere ineard• tg aying this, g in the country was as . fitted for the station as any other. If he ih citated from being placed at the Board of A ctidalif, he Shoitld were to give Isis opinion as to that man, e should probably name es. • es- the resolution of the Hon. and Gallant Oilieer Vid de Gteys not for telisame reason as the Hon. and Gallant rose ee. .- • ' teleTecee behind him (('egtain Pechell) did, but for his high behind him. . standing and pOeition, for ha talent and rank. He thought, •! fetid INQESTRiE said ;that whatever opinion may be ene where en offeer of this detetiption could be found, he was the ferteihed iqf •the diseretide o.t the Hod; And Gallant Corn itiodi4 in britigittg fel4itrel his rest:W*lli At theteittres there man to be Fiest Lord of the A d m iralt y , in order that he might be a guaiantee to the p ublic that the duties could be no doubt that the navy owe( hitii A deep alit of elf the office would be properly performeeh The second point gratitude for the way he advocated its cause in that Was Ono with vt hi.:ll he was rather more intitOtely connected, Howe. (Cries of " Heat, hear.") It may not be that was, that a natal officer should form one of the Roard of right in, a lessislatise assembly to meddle in matters Ordnance. Whet he happened to be Secretary to the Anae! - there initiiediAtely - ,beluil2,ing, to -the Executive, but at ralty, that department was under his control ; therefore he the same timei if the iiiiey did tfdi title tit Stepertanity of s p o k e confidently, and he believed that great advantage Milling its sentiments known, it would he iniiiassible fur the stored *rise from a communication between the Board of Ord -1 ieeutive tel knot+ the opinion of the navy on any subject. wince and the Board of Admiralty. He formed this opinion LOOking td the expefienhe and -t knowledge posse sed by pro- u experience. ?low with respect to the situations feseionel Men, he thought Muth Pnl teas tet be, raid in favour of a a t the head of the dockyards being filled by naval men , raYal ofe4er being p'fied it the heed of the Beard of Admi. h e t h oug h t t h at ' t hi s was a su bj ec t w hi c h ought not to be raltieeeseelteersl: if tete iesoldtiott of the Heil; and Gallant brought before the House. The next point was with respect was for a ititilfe eolialeuctioti of the Boirds he redid give his vote for it. With respect to the belief reeo- to te rettrem_ent of officers, and hno e had e hesitation in hitions.of the Hon: and Gallant Officer, he should have no sting that he should be glad to see officers retiring hi.,:elikloti, in Rup:pBiiink his p Opesition. In consequence of a if' there Was a probability of increasing their allowan ce. But at the same tittle, he thought it was not to be lost sight of, protracted war, the list was teb leill Of aged Officers for the exi- that geticiet of the country: . Ile shduld note eller Into any many ne- e the lion. Gentlemen vrha supported teat motion eamento that House pledged. He had had the honour of qteettent of the tee of those officers, but in Case coining into that House, many years ago, pledged to nnflisching w a *ii• sBthe Wads tftirst be devised for calling ee o no t Tly, if there was any money to spare, he did not hesi: yotinger officers into active service id evert ?Wok. He Would fate i n giving his opinion that there was another class of the petneose some plan of retirement, as only just to these bid& nevi which deserved increased pay, and that was the petty officete Whet lila acted as examples to those who were coming officers. He should say, that the best mode of remedying the after tnedi. Theft *ere mint civil officers connected with the inconvenience attendant upon manning the navy, would be to nave that . might be filled by natal edifier, as efficiently as by increase the pay of the petty officers ; and he should, there- Eiviliens, by *Mob a great Wing to the eoutitty might be ef - fore rather give any sur p lus mone y for that pu r pose , t han to t he feeted in the lisilf-pal. allowance of retiring officers. This was his opinion, and he Captain PI CHELL suppotted the reeolutiotiss ands iii proo gave it with periesct confidence to the House. Now, the next df the good t-)lat ieefiled froni such discussions, tie e• slid r: fat object to which. he would allude, was the state to the eseien 'level Coiihngsionerg whose tippointrrieet of the Mediterranean flee'. He thought a great deal too much ensiled; lie delibt, from these diseeeeifint. He thought had been sled on this subject, hut he felt called upset to it itts. t eying ,a 4eiy foot csiniplitiaent, iftdeeds to say - a few wores. The Gallant Officer had said that from the the seri;lees 6 1 ; the 14o; L&tl Hiiii Adrhirel, to Say that a naval fitful Wog ashore, and the inefficient state of the fleet, if the officer ought not to preside. With ftgard to Aft, had lie ti Eg)ptiall fl eet had come down upon them they would have said relative to the responsibility of the Board of Adrnifelte; he feeen overpowered. Ile (Sir I'. Troubridge) would say that (Captain Pechell) would say that he thought the Board tees a Wl:t 4 #l ihe ships came home, • and he would mention the Asia, very irresponsible and secondary one, and he thought a better several M. !TWO , went down to view her. They told him instance of its irresponsib lit y and secondary character could themselves that !hey were delighted with the regularity of the not have been given than that which had b. en stated, that discipline , and more partici: l oY the gunnery of that ship. when the First Loral was applied to some time ag o to He wool t also menti on the Rodney,' which was a brilliant protect the fishermen of the coast of Kent, he would nit do sample of what a man of was.. ought to be. Th ere so, on the ground that he cold not undertake the responsi bilit y . was the Prin cess Charlotte , and-- no would He thought, however just the apprehensions of the Gallant. the Thunderer. W el l, her e we re four line f battle mentio l n e , Coremodnre that our fleet weul t not have been beaten i f an shi e s, a ll o f ehich had the highest encomiums passed tie action had taken place between us and the Frentl in the yfedi- their discipline and gunnery; how then was it possible, with terraneari in 1840 ; still the manning of the ships should be kept such ships, they could be captured by the Egyptian elicat fleet? up if it were only to avoid the great labour that m ust other- With res p e ct to patronage,-he was afraid lie was on de wise fall on the men, especially in cases of sickness. With groued, for it had been, in all Admiralties and in all Govern respect to the pensions of midshipmen for wounds, it should be ments, hut he ventured to say that with respect to private pa observed that these pensions were discontinued immediately trenage he knew nothing of it, nor was he responsible frost they were promoted. With respect to the ma nnin g of shi p s, but whe n they came to the coronation , or general promotion, reat the Admiraty ought to be convinced of the n ecessit y of pre- I his friends, Ad m i ra l Ad ams an d Admiral Parker , had a g serving to the sesvice the seamen brought up to the practice ! deal of trouble in looking over the lists, in or der to do justice to of gunnery •in the Excellent at Portsm euth, and ou g ht all parties , and they ought not to have been s o attacked in that not to suffer the navy . to be deprived of their valuable House. No sit of men could have taken mitre trouble, or have services. He 'mita', the time was nut far .alistatit when the shown more anxiety than those gentlernen. /Duce snore, pay of those men would be increased, and to arrive at the rani: of lie begged to state that lie thought the Boaiii of Admiralty a petty officer would be a matter of a mbition. There was no could not be changed with advantages and he thought danger he thought of the interest of the navy being sacrificed that great responsibility was thrown on the Prime Ministc . of . , I • this country in choosing an officer for the head of the Admiralty. Captain BERKELEY rose to explain. lie had never Faid that the navy in th e Medit er ranean war in such a stat e as le be likely to be deft a ed. What he had stated was, that if they had been pressed by eight sail of the line, they would have been placed in great jeopardy. He begged also to state, there was not a number of men wandering on shore. Captain PECHELL rose to explain. The Gallant Officee r opposite had defended the appointment of Earl de Grey to Officer Admiralty on different grounds to what he (Captain eecheil) ha.l. What he ( Captain Pechell) had stated was, that be OS fully entitled to the situation from his high station and knew' ledge of ship-building. He had also alluded to the hospitai.tlyt of the Lord High Admiral. He could say nothing in t!'" respect of the First Lord of the Admiralty , never haelrg visited him in his life. —( Laughter.) But with respect to thee _ Lord High Admiral, he would say that there were very f officers but who were acquaintei with him, and he was there fore acquainted with the merits of the different effiecrs. a S:r H. HARDINGE said, before the motion went `;„, division, he wished briefly to offer a few obsei vations. ,i Gallant Officer who had brought for Ward that motions ad complained that undue favour had been shown to the erns,' '" the late brevet, and stated, as his opinion, that there was reason why there should have been so many gener al efac t 7at He hardly felt inclined to go into that subj , ct 011 union occasion, because he had always felt that such a • en vy and harmony subsisted between the army and f . every occasion. But when the Gallant Officer ,Rohl' red eid e o undue favour being shown to the army, it el's ea r -to to him (Sir H. Hardinge) absolutely necessary to endeavote__. tc sh ev that no such motives influenced either the Right Iv! . Baronet, or the Cabinet in that promotion. It, therefuroe,__7h peered to him necessary to assure the House, that o partiality tcok place. Now, what were the facts of the f a rts It would be found that from a return made, that for thetas teeibla years there was a much larger number of officers in sar army, in proportion to the navy. Now, let them take the Y o L oo 1814, there were 525 general officers in the army, and ' ss ,, °s e d men. In the same year the number of Admirals was 23'" and 550 ships, being under one-half the number of the fl e e n ne i s , officers •in the army. In 1830, the* number of they •,„ made generals, was 64, and the number of captains, crs made admirals, was 44. In 1836, the "" ea r were 42 in the army, and 36 in the navy. In t he , I ,nd 1841 the number of colonels made major-generals was 6 " - No e the number of captains made admirals was 40 or 4I• fin e taking this into consideration, the Gallant Officer Weeel"tcois that there was no injustice done to the navy another case, he believed there were 10 or 11 admirals lat and 39 or 40 general officers employed. They would fin s inc e the number of general officers had been diminishes/a. 1814 to the amount of 185, and the admirals only about te, He had no wish to make comparisous of this kind, but if " J e ll were to d so be should look to the expense of e :c.h. 0 , 0 1835 the cost of the officers in the well t 11,1001., and that of the navy 23,00 a ""' O OOl the time of the last brevet the army and tine navy was 26,4'00/ Now' there was no partialitY in this. Such was the feeling of the army towards the w s, to —such was their admiration and respect, that if there id be retrenchment in the two professions they ` .. iee ed give the preFerence to the navy. In this he I )! • he was speaking the sentiments of the whole army. t. 0 16 " Str C. NAPIER said he bagged to assure the Gailans cer. that he did not complain of undue promotion, he 00Y c r oon to of the number of captains made admirals, in pi e 6•11- to the general officers in tile army. He could assure lent General tire he did not wish to institute any unfai r rho parison between the army and the easy. He could ass did not was 13 or 14, we Hon. Gentleman behind him (Mr. C. Wood) that he," l „ te io intend to throw the slightest reflection upon the Hon. he lo in Grey. He hoped the lion Gentleman, their relative, " co rd allow him to nay that he had no intention to spea k e a t Jaen against them. The Right Hon. Baronet bad said t" c a p sles Majesty delegated her power, and he ( Sit cou ld Nap er) was quite aware of that, but her Aoj es `' as v ell d. legate her power to a Lord of the Adrair a , ' ale the Board of Admiralty, and if she did so, she,,,iear.) have a responsible man as the head of the navy—' (t The Right lion. Baronet (sir J. Graham) had ,n ° ` re fer' rectly stated what he (Sir Charles Napier) stated es'iw,.lll ence to the danger in which the British navy w as "o Mediterranean. VI hat he did'say was, that if the Frenchree come out before they (the British) were in the Med iterr :; o4 no boy could say what would be the result. It vires net right to tell the British navy, manned as it was at & u . ne t that they were able to do so much as the Right Hoe' torts" (Sir J. Graham) had stated, in such complinserital deo they were able to effect. Nothing was more daneerl e are ) to inspire a false con6denee.—( Hear, hear, and He (air Charles Napier) was once defeated himself in t", - t of Indies, and he knew what it was, and what the rese' we re defeat would be again, if our ships were manned as thf Y e if i t then ; it was impossible that the navy could be effect,' „as; was regulated as it was at present. He defied theL, Gabrisl—( Laughter ) — if he was first Lord of the Adrairs;' sl it I li if he was deprived of the patronage, to regulate the I tif advantage. As it was now regulated,_ ever y )_ pe be rs f o o ,n rea - t i ap s n be g . a: , no interest must wait until the Queen was married-- - V e —or until the Queen had a son-1 Laughter promoted, no matter what Ws length of' service mis t . (Hear, hear.) He thought there was the most urgent,ereo sity far an improvement in the navy, and he would * l ' press his motion. i s se' 1 he first resolution having been negatived without adv.' the second resolution was put. t h e o°l.ll Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, an d divided, when there appeared— 40 For Sir C. Nap er's resolution 4308 For Sir James Graham's amendment... Majority against the resolution .• „j o lt' , Captain PLUMRIDGE said there was a great 0 1 0 est between the second and third resolutions, and he we" taitily press it te a division.—(Hear, hear.) 10 9. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw-, and the divided, when there appeared— 47 For the resolution Against it Majority against the resolution • THE PHILLIPSTOWN TRAGEDY. roll Mr. W. SMITH O'BRIEN rose, and moved for !soil of the verdict and depositions taken by the coroner a ' ell ° quest held on the 19th day of December 1841, on the, t , P r a James Flanagan, at Clonearl, in the King's. C' eu e fl it '' w e s e . copies of all communications which have taken phse i e e - „stsel the Irish Government, or the lnspector-General of V e ;f lary, and the Resident Stiesndiary Magistrate, oret stn Inspector or Sub Inspector of Police, relative to th a clen e e the said James Flanagan, and for a copy of the c orresP" o e 7 , , welch has taken place between Durham Dunlop, Ene a osg s ea Irish Government, relative to the death of the said e• is cs.fte He briefly narrated the circumstances attending tr ee e u k' which have already appeared in The Sun. He ' t of l i e, : tended that the coroner's jury, having found a rerdse Alos dental death, a statement appeared in the DubliA e jes tlio imputing that the man Fianagen had not met, with • e d to an accidental manner, but that he had been sacrific 0. hoot Ode drunken folly of the persons assembled at Mr. iga" 3 ,1, 0 0 4 04. This statement produced a great sensation throne ser ets, c e country, and every one combined in calling on Go , ' eli ti i it s to produce the coroner's notes of the irlli es „'y °es, was at length complied with. If be ba d " 0 , - previous to this occurrence, it was certainly ref 0 1 9 creased -by an examination of those notes- of 'f i r' own part " ,he confessed that the evidence ' t ee °pit/ a character that it was impossible to say whethech i e Pe t gl tunate man's death was accidental or otherwise. on to". e ta of Ireland, under these circumstances, were n ot t „st remai . in doubt, arid still called on Government ,! ° ,3 pc 1,0 an inquiry. On those grounds too, and that t,',4e rig o r, whose names had been mixed up in the matter, sh oo ' from any unjust imputation on their character, be "" etti old I what unwillingly tie confessed —moved for the ' o t e e oll which he had given notice. He hoped the Govern' t he r De re no' refuse to produce those papers, and he tru sted would be to liberate the individuals whose conchs° lint cashed. 40% Mr. S. CRAWFORD seconded the motion. OPV Lord ELIOT said he roe, not for the purpose 'OlOO4 the motion, but of making a few remarks, by vi .a3 i, s s s t to the state:, ents cf the Hon. Gentleman' so ru nic' ,t 7 affec7ed the Government. Immediately the On c ; tbei r e ceived notice of the circumstances, they thought % se ed VT to institute inquiry. Directions were accordingly opelit th coroner to forward his notes of the inquest, and thergoo. o magistrate was directed to report to the Gov e ,,gels s ooe . whole facts of the transaction, as far as he vo s ifor them. The stipendiarymagistrate had not weile . ta ille bee e tions from the Government, but before their arrival seeded to make his report. In that report he steles' t eat ioNgl , in g the report as to the thath of the individual in (I" o ,l4 l ' e dtV it appeared was not an idiot, but a wit or jester, be h e fo illj s atr e it his duty to proceed to the house. On his arriatee of t , l t he coroner about to swear in the jurv, which consier e logsij a r, one persons. He attended the whole of the Droee`ipere ttio inquest, cross•examined the witnesses himself, ° Le elf, Ps the evidence so minutely, that the jury thought e P t he,l; leading questions. The unanimous verdict of. tha t an t i " Accidental death."—( Hear, hear.) The 4 .' 1 ; • es os'e gistrate had since undergone a cross-examine° ,:oentleePes by the Law Officers of the Crown, and they srere The erg, of e. of opinion that the verdict was a proper % d u as loet te r's' tt e would see, therefore, that the Government h , f shis se e e t io , means in their power of investigating the Whe' e Atiff e wst 'stances.—( Hear, hear.) He was perfectlyer ion( the • whole of the transaction should undergo furtln e siea tit? and he did not object, therefore, to the Pr.`" t i o na tt, e sts" papers; but he trusted he had said enough to I ," e even os „Is to suspend their judgment until tins whole of tn' t. iti° l o/ were before them, Mr. POWELL said he thought a coronersLinqrsee:lo‘,l,etjt4 a very competent tribunal, was not one whiTerthooPoPt'ee they investigation ; and in the present Poe ._„„ i fy• it igo were good grounds for proceeding with the i'a y iest po lL o convinced that when the facts were thor° 4 t he e ° •g' & elf' the Noble Lord himself would not come to ,„ whch had been arrived at by the jur ,A theirbet; t° r• Mr. VILLIERS STUART said be could th 116 (P - ,4' that In his opinion the Government had don" aet ion-' at s vestigate all the circumstances of this trartfeinan 41 sr' hear.) He must also remind the Hon n . st 9 it e u n tiena i a . o lo ye r (o f roner s inquest was by far the most co e sty a case of that nature; and unless there teer r „__ ree el it / sons for bslieving that the jury had not peter tha t v re' ' he should deprecate re-opening the inquire'. s ops" g .lo,'F' Mr. WAKLEY said it was s mistake_ le verdict of the jury was final. An indiel ene e re ot ectli g fern d before the grand jury, and fresh 0ti,41,0 0 the purpose of reversing that decision. were 0 007' 0 ,pri i Mr. Dunlop that all the parties accused lc,: death of the deceased ;if this were the ft, r t t ' 1 ; 0 075 paries could be called on as a witnest• ce t G h o e v e fa r o n e rn o e f n t th t e h i e og j o u i s s t i i t e i e o of n o a r t y h i o ng te h p a ( t ,r t t h i_:l e i, e lo t . h i T t 3 l,.: l Pr J o, ( l f , any further inquiry. He trusted, the . refo . e,,'_',: e . ero still dissatisfied, tu'e 4 0 1 f 'lllO ha' lof or the other parties were I end 511 bill of indictment before the grand jury , AP' to men were interested in not returning an r allegatione videne they s had exceedinglyto offer. strong, tArotot:,eths same i : ratre teina ovfr'l 0 ; The motion was then agreed to. , ( 04„ pi er , , d a ll tb l e ' e tt e" f : the bee 'yet RURAL POLltChaEtcooll:tre sen which eo A rn l r m . u T hne . tc D ahta U i N ngs € i t O ehn : It notice,B h E a e o rose passe t d bring bt, wi f l o se r t o o a c l o o a, I,loor A. State for the Home Department, tho t r ., cit ., / ti t ! c T o s ti 'l , g o t of the Rural Pace of that county in vo , r att o. . 1 f ; dr from o Magistrateetoberof last t County o r e f se N n o i r ItOi!rnk time, teh c' aetzp of man of the name of Smith, on a charge,, said that this motion related to the effnodrut ° c l ot , ty e;tr -say the misconduct of the rural police the lee the d B ,/ and he t hould state as concistly as possible it of the vise and of the cerop!aint he had to o s, e a Z e, tett • of P 6 vrh•n the House had heard what he had t er" e ere f or t :twee wi,h him that conduct more illegal. "¢ if i t a 1 130 ,; 11;! i s eei n stitutional could net be cones ieecl; a' s o le , ife -erect to prevail in those counties tha t had at the jibe. H•ntsc would agree with him t 1 Lopti.,;o•4fOri the were n w err:ail; reality h w e ou h i *: zelav to i a;t i t.t p, I :c cu a i rbaC:ttimentus'aetnoadifnneu:ll'nshalthyeincdaisveidleiT w th it e h s o e u . t 2 7 1±, i eerip Le g ss a_ F roe ile ci e l; satresehtisrt of f o Nhiosmbicahek, with h s t cnti o nd pa vv i r , : en s e his wrists,—( Hear, hear.) The . I?_°; iv ieual e e,, naturally enough took up this t 17 the carried before the police nurgistra e .‘ F the ter? ! . „11 ,3 , r#' called on to at:count for the appear,anca_e,,,, ‘,13,3 t ees O c b lPL e eff tWe l e i n Lrg Y hde ar aYa m ri it u t h i n i d a ilis:ci-aellirekieciuhrebi'°;ll I:Pir ~ -..r'