The Sun. — London, England, 1855-07-20 00:00:00

lATPEkTAi, ARLIA-;.TENT. 1 100 SP ter , COMAIONS—(YESTERDAY.) MD"rOURNED DEBATE ON MR. ROEBUCK'S MOTION. (Continued from our t hi r d e di t i on of yesterday.) .I'he ATTORNEY- GENERAL-Well, then, I mu s t L e° urea* I cannot un d erstand the course that the lion 'rable member fo r Sh effield intended to pursue. t.nought the attack that bad been made U pon the , noble lord at the head of the Government :4_(l pen anything but fairly dealt with. He had not the it a present pos i tion in which he was placed, hut rc s id t been forced upon him by the country and the err tawn:ances that had taken place ; and was it justice, he _il_d ask, to visit-which was the object of the present "011-the pins of the late Government upon the ?•prhitt,lio noble lord at the heal of the Government ? t,rft h: n. and learned gentleman then proceeded to refer report of the Sebastopol Committee, in which it ^ 6l tated that the eulpab lity for much of what was r t _ fr `red by the army was charted up to the late Lord Ho That , l he of the e . d continue( , was the opinion . le arned member f or Sheffield ; but now th a t the ill ustrious general had fall en a v i ct i m to h i s devot i on Kettles public service, the hon oura bl e an d l earne d rndian came d own to the '',erne and passed torn • ta 9 eulogiu na on the merits of the departed torn finding that the late noble and gallant e.nse ral could no l onger be hell responsible f o r his a ll ege d deeds th e h on. member for Sheffield turned round &ail charged those misdeeds upon the Government. He cfmtended that to turn round upon a Government which lad now for so long a time prosecuted the war success mull t and triu mp h antly, simply up some statements tat he in r eport of a P ar li amentary comm i ttee, was iliexp e dient and unjust. (Hear, bear, and cheers.) 14,!.! q u ite consid ere d that when the right hon. member T 7 dertfordshire brought on his motion it was under ,ireennastras + es which gave h im a perfect right to do 50.,," noble b aronet perceived that there were counsels in the Cab inet which were calcu l ated t pr , duce timidity, lof rhea' () f inspiring c tnfi lence and energy in the conduct war; ant the noble lord, therefore, broueht fer oo-nr`: "' 3 Antetion with a v i ew o f d o i ng away with these Inotiosekri Rut wh en the objectobjectagainst whom his at oneew4B directed retired fr.,in office, he withdrew it , (Hear, h ear. ) The motion before the house p r P i P n e ,' a , r eu motion. to hi m to b e founded upon a very different 'M •ie P I t- he meant party f ee li ng an d f act i ous Opp ,. J n •ustice and h e did hope that the house, out of a sense of uoc , a , e e equity, and fairn ess wou l d g i ve i t a d ec id e d (Ch.) eh o r • WHITESIDE was disappointed at th e s p eec h o f 20 Attorney General. He was in hopes to have heard (etnlethieg fr om t h e learned gentleman upon the subject wh • ich the pr esent mot i on affirmed, and what it con- I f:• l ea ned : but inetead of that th e h on . an d l e ar ne d gen ri a n had only com e f orwar d t o su pp or t h is ce ll e anues, tr;'" uPholdtheir actions. The hon and learned member by 60 went o th n to decry the course that had been pursued t he. Ad ministr a ti rinlon with respect to the entity in the on the ea, and referred t o ev id ence t h a t h a I b een a dd uce d „ sow. subjeote He protested a.gainst the censure had bee n cast b y the noble ins rq tits (Granby) %pee se 0 Hou.se of Commons and the English people, e L was eesrry to see that he had an ally-the If rightl: n• 'gentleman the First Lerd of the Admiralty. bens of spoke the sentiments of the whole mem tni of th e house when he said that the Sebastopol Com seat„tee'' leeport had been drawn up by a noble lord who ti led to the highest confidence. The great ques 14'u rolved lay in a nutshell. Was, or was not the arrived rd co rrec t i n t h e conclus i ons to which he had eel;, as embodi e d i n th e report ? H e adm i tted the it lord might shake off the responsibility of this rno but there was a responsibility to posterity and to nyvii conscience from which he could not be absolved. ton J . RUSSELL-I rise to speak on this great ques n witho u t any wish to diminish or to undervalue its tre't im p ort ance - (hear)--still less to deny or avoid any Therefore which I may have to encounter. (Hear ) ;1 11 .. er , e _ f° re I cannot accept, and I hope my noble friend the t st Lord of the Treasury will not accept the excuse made 034tobseitiolenarned Attorney-General-(loud cheers from the ) - Placed upon the ground that when the cir ftir"tanc" in question occurred ho had accepted the post It iSecrettry of State for the Home Department. (Hear.) b• rn Y latslief that every member of Lord Aberdeen's Ca 'net ie h,,e 'and must remain, responsible for the acts that (Rea e - -, 5 ° long as he remained a member of the Ministry. tie, ; pr.) This is a great question-a question of jus• whil e , ° f because there can be no doubt that que 410": e minently a question of justice, it is not a 'minocot fth,j: Justice ce only. (Rear, hear.) The House of reisd di r l ' e fl '.in its deliberative capacity, holding the scope, is P_rea eeiaeSeortfirth' its vote the men ant measures of this :ught always to consider, tiret -what the 'the effect of th e c• se re uires ; anti next, what may be vote j a t . is r q uested to affirm, in view of bet general interests of the country. I remember well , thi?.ang told v - man who was a distingnished member and(f iwn at h ts o use at the tim e of the Walcheren expedition, nsm no friend to that expedition-I mean ise r h • rnan no less distinguished for his It ser . tucs is t t l i i n an , la talent, and who was not friendly the e • e !'inent--I remember he told me that he thought the .6eisiti to by the House cf Commons au th . e sub. het t. come f or , th e Walcheren expedition was a decision in con• th -nlit Y with the wishes of the country . ; because, though ee ° eonntry found much to blame in the character and uet of that expedition, and of . the ministers who pl ane and carried it out, still that it was the opinion of esiati.tcnintry that the ministers were eareying n the war tlei n u ; v ignue and effect on the whole, and that it weuld be " Th t "mis to the interests of the country to dismiss them c ' t ue• I say this as an example fur the course taken . til-nee.l.louse of Commons having a proper notion of its 11 1 „" In ns• (Hear.) In the first place, as I have said, 13, - 1 1 can be no doubt that this is a question of justice ro an at it as a question of justice, I must be („-nlitted remark on the manner in which the hou. and (ti r ri 'ea mein') e• for Shade' t stated his case to the house. 3 • or s t t .) Nothing can exceed the gravity and importano 'cie decision at which the hon. and learned memb . et: asks k Zlinus e to arrive. (Hear.) According to his ovnio . n- The - s i i i will not now stop to dispute or discuse it-A tt ie a ee,; (n i to disqualify from power-to exclude from o ce r. then in this house who may have promoted or ca M; e 4 n.Y great measure of what is called Liberal policy. th e a enddiesent.) The followers of Earl Grey in catryinip g Reform Bill ' the followers of Sir Robert Peel in . cariy th; ',llree-trs.de are alike denounced anti disqualified by Lo.) "• and learned gentleman's motion. (Hear, and For an hon. and teemed That gentleman, who at least ei e (‘fes 'es liberal opinions, this is a great step. atn u" but men whose opinions are opposed to C f at , h , eoirpeciPation, to reform, and to free trade-term so o high, and ee 9e s)-be the characters of all others ever on.. tel o neeir talents ever so great, shoal,' be qualifiedfor con the th o e ' is i ng e affairs of this great country is the object wishes s iu to eff ee Tja• and learned gentleman proposes anal wis n . ohe, "' (Hear.) ' Well, if the issue is to be eo great I~hould have thought that the hon. and learned g.entleb ts,44,,would have cautiously kept within the strict•line l . f • t• - g `" and accurac • that he would not have °vet stet et a -,6.0ne of they charges ; and that, in callin , on the to come to a decision on them, he would 'no b t u p t re t sa , ete s L a le unfairly against those whom he was a „, -c :"; (Hear.) k.ed yet I cannot but observe that o in "va kin t the - sta te m ent of the hon. and learned te ntie 8 313CE S Mali is anything but a fair or correct one. (Hear.) %instaot nce of is inaccuracy has been noticed b . y m a y friend member ` for Carlisle. In giviti b a le tt4l4o n fLord Raglan's letter, my right hon. friend th ite, , rem %I l i outs as the house w il l rein ' ember, that . the hoe. It Warned gentleman omitted that part referring to the ex il i : ed n it a i Zr iescence of the Emperor of the French in the hylklthr. RO EBUCK.-I quoted from the reports drawn up L or e,, 'noun ber fo r T e t nes . t • RUSSELL.-The hon. and learned member to r : - f'. l o have hail it iu the evidence--(cbeers)-and there .; eeh r : 'a mercy, if not in justice, he should have givers to t f c a r c u t. (el l ; are accused the benefit of what he knew to be h ba e , e 7k) But the hon. and learned gentleman accuses the fr th -u i B r 6 of Lord Aberdeen's C +billet with being a k s ° 4 - 1,'"(lon with some few exceptions. I will spea by a t e 'l .4 l - 'le of this charge. The hon. and learned gentleman !ie;l " let them di like sheep. They suffered under t nht:el " 11 °u -there was no opportunity of taking them o their . 0 cover them-cold, rain, snow, tempest beat upon je.. thil e ! ll 'ads, and the Government of her Majesty were th e ' n 'g their ease while these gallant men were enduring !4leZtrenee of suffering." Here the helm will perceive - e t e lle anti learned gentleman tried to make his he ri 4- * and actually . did so, on the ground that while cold, to r , 4 l ° , l '. and tempest decimated the army, the . members f We re Aberdeen's Government, with oneexception stated, 4 °t at their post. Now, what is the fact 7 Thelptrhore ktl'Ori f Parliament took place last year on the h 2 was of tr 4 te and from that to the I.sth of October t ere r h of übe n t , and ;ill vile ready. Was it before the t„ s 0 ., 4 ,,r that "cold, hunger. and tempest" afflicted the •w r ii . !,„ Were dwindlet from our posts after that i d , ay, tl u 3 . -" ' , le armyd away ? The hon. and learnet, Lmat -4 a k4 kn ows well enough we were not. But knowing that ket,c.,ertain period of Lord Aberdeen's Government lug 6 ,; 1e T 6 of that government were notin London, and know s; 4,44 ;ere a 12:that for a certain period cold, hanger, and tempest , 4 ted tur troops, the hon. anti learned gentleman, with nth,' Perverse ingenuity, attachsei the two periods to (tc tloribi:ud Produced a false application of both . factsne nlitii, t 4) r the sake of pure justice -as a cherge against those ll 'irelt er l• But this is not all. The First Lord of i the ral o,3''howed the house that it was impoesible toe gene learn-B;4l'e against the Ministry made by the hon. and reem;sl gentleman could he, as he had stated that certain It trli e ja"f the Administration might be exempted from it. irnto,l t be true that certein members of the Cabinet more art,,,;''tately connected with the supply of the wants of the l' 6 BCihj mn ul I be more culpable than otners, but it was im- Tr e „ e that the Secretary at War, the First Lord of the blare:Yr and the First Lord of the Admiralty could be e ntid e a ". if the other members of the Cabinet were to be ti for the ill-per formance of their duty. I say, ;10,1 . 3 f or ; • 4 e, that a nx i ous as the hon. and learned gentleman lif' 4 ' ti ce, he has misconceived his case-he has so bilS- Reern,tnettlf, h e h as so indulged in the sort of pie:satire he 4 2 0_ 1 ° h ave in accusation and making charges, he was so t Ti ef w r :t il l: the opportunity of throwing blame, he h as Isky ejT abundance-1 will not say of venom-I will not taano• Poieen- (laughter)-but of vituperation, that he from applying it, even though it does not re ctla• rai;fiYthie , 6in favour of his case. I could not help 4 ( 1. 1, 1i te - r g . the speech of the hon. and learned gentlema . n. , ) The lion and learned gentleman always dis -4,llnirable a stro ng mein his speeches. (Laughter.) He begins with • gr au ng di nm - effect his e , e places in strong language and. charge before the house ; he e f n e d t s s w to ith se a p n . Port th a t peroration ; but with regard to , t . Pert t o ellatge, which ought to be abundant, and with (lleaard.)-°.,,argnineats based g on those facts, there are none. • ruida i ',IC speeches have no substance ; they want a . 1,.e. (Laughter.) There are the head and the claws °I 6 bird ntrew cutupf PrO Y - (langhter)-but the inside is nothing but I 'Peeeh bter.) Such was especially the case with . the (Lhonand 4 tieht er. ) • learned gentleman the other night. na me, have looked at the precedente in such cases, onrgel,C 4 ;_ tO See how others in the same predicenueut . a 4 !. 4 , 11 1 , 1e4 t o 7 r ed• I read the speech of Mr. Puuseuley ,t ete N r th 4 ready the the honourable and learned gentleman, au speech and charge of Lord Porchester on thee tl io ' s °'" of the Welcheren expedition ; and I see the foe,,ei.n!nt men took pains to mardial their facts house'o to ' c u e iation of their arguments, in asking the 4le me te, a couclu.ien. (Hear, hem. ) Has e flenn ar"ed gentleman done so ? He has not. 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YI i ten7o o , ea lisa" V I ? 4 tric;f3 . 0 9 ) ; or r a t° 4 1 1 1 13." • 0 e d. 0 1 0 11 lue iP i t ot rifA f tel orl;O4 1,„ 1,5 v lo e a 0 ,jtk e i l t to / 4 to' p a 3a , t o areaot r coat. fro 9 ,0 " 5 3, d' il' 9 01'g as t c lo th 7 4 ° ot 4 „/ ' Pr 01 he" tIS • / t o ,l # 0 4 00 0 $ (. 0 1 tb di ie 'v C l ° tfy • (s. 1.1 . 0 10 • so• f' 16Sg',1' orb: r i'sP i A ° °llOl eP „%t P l' 1 1 of b i g 09 Co in t btOol be - e ve ore DO oi rj 3 : 1 r3 1 :0 tbOi t Art aer . .de Sy , Ot" , n t" 1 0 r of ;0. 11 0 3 . the 3,10 ~ •;f~ and learned gentleman omitted all argument. The course take❑ by the hon, and learned gentleman reminds me of an eloquent passage in a speech of a man of great genius and power, the late Curran. Addressing the Lord Chancel lor of the day e he said, " I am aware that truth is to be sought only by a slow and painful progress, while error hops with airy awl fastidious levity over fact and argument, and perches upon assertion, which it calls truth." That is the course taken by the hon. and learned gentleman ; be has hopped over argument with airy and fastidious levity, and perched upon assertion. (Laughter.) With regard to this grew, question, two distinct questions in themselves have been c.;nfounded together by the hon, and learned gentle man more than by any one who has spoken on the subject. The first of these questions—one upon which the committee of inqu4.,- w.:5 appointed—namely, to consider the con duct of the A. buinistlation with respect to supplying the wants of the army in the Crimea. This appears to me to be a fit subject for inquiry. I believe the people of this country, indeed, would never forgive this house if we 11. ed retuud this inquiry. Differ on the subject we may ; and I am rather of the opinion with Lord Castlereagh, in respect to the Walcheieu expedition, that investiiati n should be crtv bad. But be thst as it may, the investiga tion might be conducted t i an issue without raining any other issue than tho wants of the army, (Fleur.) It might be that the French army was well supplied, or that it was ill-supplied; but that was not the question. (Hear.) The m le of reinforcing and providing tor the wants of the English army was a question quite independent of the mode of providing fur the French army. But is that the question brought before us by the honourable and learno.l gentleman ? It is not. It is, indeed, very difficult, if not almost impossible, to say what is the (luta, question brought forward by the honourable and learned gentleman. But the right honourable member for Droit wich and the hon. and learned gentleman who spoke last seem to think that the charge is, that the Government, with an insufficient knowledge and insufficient pre are tions, sent the expedition to the Crimea, to accompli h au impos-ible task. (.hears.) Is that the charge ? I an: stand ing here to be tried ; perhaps condemned. It is only fair I should know the particulars cf the indictment. (Hear.) What are those particulars ? Are there any ?or does the bon. and learned gentleman mean to trust to the chance of the vagueness of his motion, and so win votes against the ministry ui on one ground, wh le he leaves open another? (Hear ) That was not the course t •ken by Lord Palmerston i r respect to the Walcheren inquiry. He drew up an ela borate series of resolutions, based upon fact, and supported them by argument. The hon. and learned gentleman, h ,wever, in his love, I 'oust suppose, of truth and justice (cheers and laughter)—does no such thing ; on the con trary, he finds it expedient to conceal the exact nature of his charge, and he leaves us to guess what it is he accuses us of, only stating what he pro:)oses to effect. (Hear.) With regard to the second question involved in this great ques tion, it is of a totally different nature from the first. I have sail that in the report on the inquiry you might find that the army had not been duly supplied • that there had been wilful neglect, and that certain official persons, there ___. fore, Wight be censured. That would not embarrass or engage our alliance. (Hear.) But when you ask whether the army sent to the Crimea was sufficient for the purpose you touch on a totally different subject—(hear, he ,r)— because you will be obliged to ask also in such case whe• ther the Ministers of the Crown had duly consulted with the French G , verninent on what was to be jointly effected in the war? Whether the number of French troops which hail been agreed on had been sent ? Whether the English Government were satisfied with the force that had been sent ? Was it the French Government that was deficient, or the English Government? Did that defi ciency, if such existed, arise from the number of troops sent by the French Government being less than was agreed on, or from a want of transport for them being provided ? All this implies an inquiry into other subjects, and I agree, therefore, with the noble lord the member for Totnes, that inquiry on this point would necessarily be incomplete until we should know what had been agreed upon, and what had been admitted. (Hear, hear.) It would be im possible therefore, to come to any j List conclusio❑ on the question. (Hear, hear.) Well, ag tin, with respect to one great cause of the suffering of the army in the Crimea— suffering and distress with which lam sure one and all have the deepest sympathy. No one can entertain a doubt of the effect of the hardwork in the trenches in diminish- )ng the army ; comparing its condition from the 10th of ICovember to the 14th of December, it was one of great suffering and mortality from this cause. Every one knows that the nein)) arwy by our side was conducting, as I may say, a separate siege. But this is delicate ground. Are you prep fired to tread it ? Are you prepared to in quire whether Lord Raglan asked the French general to support him ? Or, if he did, what was the answer of the French genet al ? Whether the French general did or did not matte sir or seven wil es of trenches? Whether he could spare men in such case ? Or whether Lord Rag:au a keit such assistance? (Hear.) This is delicate ground I repeat — (hear)—but it is nevertheless quite impossible that you can come to a vote of censure in unection with this question until you know these tacts (Hear.) The hon. and learned gentleman keeps all these difficulties se iulously out of sight. It is for these reasons, tferefore, that while I con cur in the view that it would he more satisfactory, perhaps, to all parties to come to an exact vote of aye or no on the subject, still I cannot deny that the hon. and gallant officer who moved the previous question, and the noble lord the member for Totoess, who supported it, have good parlia mentary grounds for ne4ativing the motion. (Hear.) But passing to the great question, which it is impossible to say whether it has been raised or not by the hon. and learned g e utletnau—(laughter)—l will state in a few words what consider to be the offence charged against those who ordered the expedition to the Crimes, and the answer, so far as I can give it, to that charge. An army was sent out from this country and fro.o Fran,te, the im mediate put pose of which was to defend the capital of the Turkish empire from occupation by Roma. li,wever, it was found: from the losses buffered and the resistance offered at Silistria, that the Russians had retired from the principalities. I own it surprised me very much that the feeble eutrenchuleuts of Arab Tibia should have held the whole Russian army on the Danube in check for nearly a year, and defeated their utt mpt at invasion. But such being the case, it b 'came a great question what should be done with the allied armies ? Every one will agree with we that if they had been withdrawn from Bulgaria, whi ther they had been sent, and recalled to Constantinople, it would give rise to general disappointment, would cer taitey induce a belief that the war was not pressed a ith vigour, and 'night even encourage Russia to think that she could defend herself for ye re. (Hear, hear.) The question then to be decide t was, was the army to be sent beyoud the priucip dities ? We knew that Austria was then quite willing to drive Russia out of the princi palities, but, that she would not cross the Pruth. We had, therefore, to . consider what would be the position of the allied armies if they had advanced—the position of 60,000 or 70,00 J men on thta• large anti wasted plains, opposed to the whole force of Russia, without adequate resources—for the army could not march without the means of transport ; it would take two or three months to reach the Russian army, therefore, and no one doubted that the Russian army was superior in numbers to our army, not very strong numerically iu the first instance, and weakened by disease in the ether. Therefore that course could not b 3 taken. It was therefore decided to send the army to the Crimea. Hon. gentlemen sail that we had no sufficient information on the subject. We had all the information that could be obtained. (Hear, bear.) Different results, no doubt, were to be derived from that information, but it is always the case in war. I observe, indeed, that a great commander in Spain, timing the late war, did not know the number of the English army opposed to him. We had inforrna thin ; it was not to be relied on implicitly ; and Lord Regian -so stated in, in reply to the Duke of Newcastle. We had information that the Russian army in the field was about 45,000 men, and in the garrison of Sebastopol about 15,000 men, making about 60,000 in all in the Crimea. The question then arose, was it possible to take Sebastopol with the forces of the allied army ? I believe it was. (Hear.) If we had effected that object before the long defence of that fortress had increased the Russian obstinacy, I believe that it would have shortened the war, by inducing the Emperor of Russia to listen to reasonable terms of peace. (Hear, hear.) It is now the fashion to say that stsbastopol could not re taken ; but Ido not hold with that fashion. There are now artificial defences of great strength where on that occasion last year the town iu great part was defended by a single wall. (Hear, hear.) Was it impossible that the allied army, landing in the Crimea, should gain a great victory, and that the gates of Sebastopol should be thereupon thrown open to them ? (Hear, hear.) I believe it was possible. I remember very well that that brave soldier the late Marquis of Anelesea said, when the French anti English ar mien were united together in emulation, nothing could resist thew. We Lowe it su at the Alias. (Cheers.) Wes it not possible after this great victory to press ou to Sebas topol and take it white the Russian army was in confueiou ? But if that was not done, was it impossible to the allied armies to attack the weak oefences which then existed on the south side of Sebastopol, and make themselves masters of the town ? It has not so happened certainly ; such is the fortune of war that we cannot make anything sure But I say that it was well worth while to incur the risk for the chance of striking so great a blow • and that those who made the expedition, therefore, sought a great prize which not only triumph but peace would follow. (Cheers.) That is one part of the case. Tue other part of the case regards th .so whose duty it was to supply the expedition ; and as the hon. and learned gentleman who spoke last, as yell as the hoe. baronet the member for Hertfordshire, applied observations to me as the depreciator and accuser of the Duke of Newcastle, I shall take the liberty of referring to those aguments. I beg leave, therefore, to say that the comparison iuetituted by the bun. and learned gentleman in the brat instance is inapplicable to me, and, therefore, altogether out of place. There was no secret made of the accusation of the Duke of Newcastle; on the contrary, the Duke of Newcastle was fully informed of the whole nature and contents of the correspondence in question. Not that the Duke of Newcastle was deficieut in the con scientious discharge of his duties. He was both a con scientieus and a la,oorioue Minister ; but then he had not setricient authority in his office to carry on with eneigyand effect a great war, such as that in which we were engaged. That wits my opinion. It might be wrong, and it was not shared by wy colleagues, who hail the fullest confidence in the administrative ability of their colleague. Then, with respect to the number of British troops and the supplies sent out. No one can deny who looks at the evidence, that in spite of defective organisation—we having been left too lung in peace, and without adoptingsuffiadent remedies and reforms—that in spite, I say, of defective organisation, there was great activity shown in dispatching to the Crimea all that the army required. No doubt, many defects could, and have been pointed out—some by the hon. member for Totues--owing to the defective organisation and the evils that have flowed from such defective organisation; but the useful labours of the committee will not have been thrown away, if with that knowledge which we have acquired, the noble lord (Lord Pantnure)will be enabled to give more concentrated power to the War Department, and thus prevent those delays which have occurred owing to want of due correspondence between the seveeal departments of , ;overnment. That, I think, will be a great advantage, but it does not form a sufficient case on which to ask the horse to pass a vote of censure on the administration, or a case on which to cast blame on the whole of the administration employed in conducting public affairs. Could they say , that, considering the obstacles which the Minister of War found with respect to sending, out huts and clothing, this furnished a good ground for such a censure as the motion of the hon. and learned gentle man proposed ; nay, the hon. and learned gentleman felt this view so strongly that he goes to another ground en tirely, though he does not positively refer to it. If this is the case, that at the commencement of LI great war, we, having sent an expedition composed of as fine an army as could be conceived ; that army, however, not being success ful, though most successful ie battle, in the imme hate ob ject for which it was dispatched, the capture of Sebastopol —is it, or is it not, desirable that this house should inflict its censure on those who projected that expedition. I own is, appears to me, if the house come to that conclusion, the house will commit a great injustice—will commit a great injustice agaiust men who, when they engages' in the war, endeavoured to the best of their power —anal they were men of no ordinary capacity wise formed the members of Lord. Aberneen's administration—who endeavoured to the a blow agthut R ugg i N ben of *fix power to aired. TILE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, JULY io, 1856. which might be effectual for the purpose, but which, c wing to the various accidents and various fortunes which befall warlike expeditions, was not successful fur ther than iu maintaining the honour of the armies of both countries. But success may yet come, and crown our ex- pectations, and enable us - to Fay we have defeated one great means of Russian oppression. It has been said with respect to the hon. and learned gentleman's charge, that while the expedition was being sent out, the members of Lord. Aberdeen's Government were elsewhere. The mem- hers of Lord Aberdeen's Government had decided upon the expedition, and had received from Lord Raglan every infer• oration, and every measure of preparation had been made. I know not that any other members of the Cabinet were . . required in order to conatuunicate with Lord Raglan than those immediately anneeted with the War Depart- went. If Patliament insisted on having the whole tiLe of every member of the A(lministratioh, who are also members of the Howe of Commons, and requiring them to remain in London, and not to resort to other places, such a demand will not, I think. tend to the efficiency of public business. The work of the House of Commons is so severe—the work of atte. ding eight or nine hours in the house Emory night to take parr, in debate, added to the official duties, is such that if this rule were insisted upon you might have men broken down by their duties, and you would be obliged to replace them by other ministers; and in doing so you wuuld not gain the object of having an administration able to re,uwe their duties with vigour, and with health neces- sary to the purposes of administrative labours. What was the period iu question ? It was the period between Aug. and October. In that period the battle of the Alma took piss, but the important account of commencing the siege of Sebistopol was dated the Bth October—a period when the cabinet were about to assemble. Everyihing that could be con , idered by ministers was considered. So it is not true thit any great question way neglected in cones queue., of the absence from town of ministers. N.thing tint the habit of the hon. and learned gentlemen of applying reproaches to one period that properly be longed to another period could afford ground for such a charge. I have stated the question with regard to the justice of the case; but I can show, if you enter upon the question whether it was right to send an expedition to the Ciime t—to send an army to act in that quarter—that you can hai illy come to a right conclusion without inquir ing into all that was done by the G.ivernmeut of France. I have toll the house that when the army was in the Cri mea, the army departments took care, as fast as they were able, to desp►tch with diligence reinforcements to the army, and to furnish that army with supplies of food, shelter, and clothing. I will come now to the great ques tion of policy. Is it discreet at this moment—the 19th of July, that we as the House of Commons should come to a vote which will have effect, not only of casting a stigma on those out of office, but of driving from power the head of the adininist, atiou and other Ministers who act with him ? That seriously is the question; it involves the question whether the Government are carrying on the war with sufficient vigour, or whether the house thinks, by replacing the present Government with Lord Derby and those joined with him, there will be a more efficient administration of the war ? I cannot think you will be of that opinion. I can see that great inconveni ence and confusion will wise from displacing those who are engaged in sending our army to the Crimea, and in organising the operations of our fleets. Such a change without confusing will be impossible. And, then, when you get through the confusion, will you have a better ad minist ? It is for the house to say, for this is a question of policy as well as justice. It Lord Aberdeen's administration could be shown to have been utterly in competent and hie ipable—without talent and strangers to administrative duties—then a case would be made out Ministerial responsibility. (Hear, hear.) We did not now send peccant Ministers to Tower-hill, and no on , rejoice I at the change more than he did; but when the House of Commons found that great calamities Inv been brought upon the country, the house was in duty bound to express its opinion fairly and honestly, and to bring home properly the sense of responsibility on all who might have had the affairs of the country iu their hands. It had been said that a portion of the late Government had been punished. In one sense they had, for they had been excluded from office, and were now doing penance on the bench beside him. (Laughter.) Did it follow, because some Ministers had been punished, that others should escape? There was none who had more right to escape than the noble lord the member for London, foi when he found his confederates were captured he turned King's evidence—(laughter)---and it was always customary t-, allow such persons to escape punishment. (Laughter.) The noble lord was responsible for his acts, but ho was not punished, but rather, according to the rules of the India service, he was promoted to a higher office- -to greater dig nity and power. The question was what the hon. member could not see that it was. He regarded it as a vote of cen sure on the existing administration and the noble lord at its head. That was the point of view, after all, in which the house would be forced to regard it. It was remarkable that the noble lord at the head of the Government had ex• presse.l no regret at the resignation of the noble lord the member for London, and had not shown any sympathy with those who had spoken favourably of the noble lord. The noble lord at the head of the Government was intoxi cated—(laughter)—intoxicated with the notion of getting rid of the noble lord, and seemed to feel as Sir Robert Walpole felt when he prevailed on Mr. Pulteney to accept peerage, saying that he had turned the key of the closet upon him. The noble lord felt that he had got rid of his ancient competitor, and that he stood a]one the leader of the Whiz party. With respect to the motion before them, he regarded it as a want of confidence in the noble 1-,rd, and ;hould vote for it on that ground. He was afraid Pa.liament was about to separate—he presumed only till November -so that for the next three months the con- duct of the war would be left in the hands of the Go. vernment, in whom he was sure a large majority of the house did not place that confidence which a Cabinet ought to have who administered the affairs of the country. (Hear, hoar.) It might be the noble lord did not shrink from his policy, but they ought to recollect that it was not the policy of Lord Aberdeen, of the right hon. member for Oxford, of the right hon. member for Wilts, or of the noble lord the member for London. It appeared to him that the noble lord at the head of the Government did not see that clouds were gathering in the horizon, and that his policy was dooming to death thousands upon thousands, and carrying desolation into the homes of millions. He had no faith in the policy of the noble lord, and believed it to be full of humiliation and of peril to Parliament, the Crown, and the country. (Hear ) Sir DE LACY EVANS concurred in some of the state ments of the hon. member who had just orit down. He agreed with him, that the tone and manner of the noble lord for dismissal with disgrace. But no such case can b e pro duced against the existing Govern sent (we understood). The case is th it of the c_ . .se of a minister who hats always turned his attention to our relations with foreign powers, and who is desirous of having the War Departments efficiently conducted. We know the disadvantages of change in these departments. But will nothing else oc cur? Will you not affect the sprit of those who succeed the prey Government—will you not infme into them that caution by which the soul of enterprise is effectually damped —and will you not damp by your vote teat vigour which ought to animate them in their exertiousagainst tlae enemy. I will read a quotation to the house ; it is somewhat long, but the matter is so much better than my own, and it is not inapplica.tde to the present time. I shall conclude what I have to say with the quotati n, feeling that the house will decide fairly the whole question, being ready to accept the motion of the Lon. and gallant gentleman of the previous question, but equally ready, if the house decides contrariwise, to contend against the justice and policy of the hon. and lea ni d gentLinan's re-olution, anti not being afraid that the house, on the merits of the question, will come to a decision a lvers e to the A,lininisti stints of Lord at the head of the Government was not satisfactory with respect to the house. That, however, after all, was a secon dary question. The question was the policy of the coun try in the great struggle in which they were engaged. He thought the house and the country were greatly indebted to the hon and learned member for Sheffield for the just and impartial manner with which he had conducted this matter. He thought the results of the committee were of the highest importance, but that the hon. and learned gentleman has made a mistake in bringing forward accusa tions of so sweeping a character as would exclude from hold ing office so many eminent men in that house. He did not altogether approve of the amendment of the previous ques- tion, still less of the proposal of the hon. and gallan' mem ber for Cambridge. The shortcomings of the late Govern ment and the want of earn -stuess in the present Govern ment went far, in his opinion, to justify the vehemence of the hon and learned member for Sheffield. He could not agree that the country, and not the Government, were to blame for what had occurred. The late Government ha-i two years' notice of the impending war, for no one who read Sir Flami.tan Seymour's letter of January, 1853, could doubt that war would be the result. They had the evidence of Lord Aberdeen himself that be saw no reason to anticipate this war three months before the decla ration of war, and yet not an additional soldier or sailor was added to our forces at that time. In the next Aberdeen. This extract is from a speech ina e by Mr. Canning on the 29;:h March, 1810, upon the Scheldt Expe dition, which was undertaken when he was in offieo, nut who went out of office before the expedition cause to an end : " Something yet remains to be said upon one topic, on which much stress has been laid by our accusers, the policy of marking with extraordinary severity a failure so disastrous as this is represented to have been of au enterprise (as it is averred) so rashly undertaken." So far the averment is not very different to that of he hon. and learned member. " Sir, of this policy, as a matter distinct from justice, I take the liberty to entertain groat doubts. I doubt whether the vice of the British constitution and Government be a too great proueu,ss to undertake splendid and daring enterprises, or its main perfection and uncommoa facility for conducting the ope rations of war. There is enough already, as it appears to me, both of difficulty to impede and of responsibility to daunt any admin.stratiou in this country to whom the conduct of a war is entru ted; and when that war isto be carri,d on against such au enemy as him with whom we have to contend at present, it is not, in my humble opinion, politic to go ono step beyond what justice may prescribe, to enhance that difficulty, and place they had omitted to call out the militialaJ;lTen the noble lord now at the heal of the Government was taunted with the neglect by the right hon. member for Becks, he retorted by saying that the men could be much better employed upon the hurvest which was then about to be got in. At last, however, when some 10,000 men ware dispatched to Malta, and thence transferred to Gallipoli, and afterwards to Scutari, they had in evidence before the commi: tee, notwithstanding the assertions of Sir C. Tre eeles.n that even this small army had not been provided wit.h the means of moving. Why, he himself, happening to piss through Malta at the time the army was there, in quired what was the means of transport provided for the army; and he ascertained that in order to enable it to take the field, the commissary general had brought some 30 mules and some 30 carts. (Laughter.) And yet in the face of this, they ha.l Sir C. Trevolyan boasting of his great knowledge of the commissariat, of his 15 years' ex perience of that service, and of his having conducted two Cape wars. But that gentleman should know that the experience of a war against the Kafirs could not be brought to guide him in a war like the present. Why, there all the operations of war were conducted by columns of some 900 or 1,000 men, and in no country of the world did such an abundant means of transport exist ; so much so, that upon one occasion Sir Harry Smith took no less than 5)0 waggons of all sorts for the service of 960 men. (A laugh.) Haw was it that the noble lord at the head of the Govern- went, end the noble lord the member for the City of Lon- don, allowed the army to stand in need of everything, and the entire control still to remain in the bands of an indivi press the weight of that responsibility upon the GoTeriiinent. Possibly I might think that even to stop something short of thought of he recollected hearing young officers speak of The inadequacy of our forces, and the ereatness of the ope •atious that were to be carried on. He said then, aerie 4aid now, that even if our present army were absolut ly innihilated, the country would furnish a still greater army consummate the objects of the war. The French Go vernment had done their duty nobly. (Cheers.) They had sent out 200,000 men to a distant position —a doedun• exampled iu the history of the world—and furnished with all the materials of war. ( Hear.) But the slightest check was magnified in this country. The attacks the other day ou the ttedau and Malakhoff had failed ; everybody seemed to think die army was at an end, though they did not lose one inchl3f ;round they previously possessed ; and he believed they had 'yea gained more ground since. (Hear, hoar.) This state if the public mind ought to be corrected ; war could not be carried on without interruption or without more or less ilisuccess. (Hear.) Let them look back to the last war. Lb. public attention was fixed on the termination of it, which was most glorious, but at different periods of it how immeasurably more disastrous were the events than any thing that had occurred, or was likely to occur, in the pre sent war. Suppose they were obliged to raise the siege, or convert it into a blockade. He denied that they could not withdraw their forces if they thought proper. They could put a large part of their force on board ship, and ravage r,erritory north and south. (Hear.) They should show, however, that they were in earnest in carrying on the war, i.nd if they did s he lead sanguine hopes that, in case the war should he continued, a total break of the vast empire of Russia might be effected, Captai❑ GLADSTONE would state briefly the reasons that induced him to vote against the motion of the hon. and learned member for Sheffield. He could not now vote for the censure that was proposed to be passed on the late and present Administration, because after what had already taken place it would bear the appearance of vindictive ness. He also could not vote for it because there was no precedent for such a proceeding. (Hear.) an extreme and vigorous account might bo the more politic alterua ive of the two. We have to contend against an enemy who, with whatever qualifications ho may be endowed by na ture, has full scope and play given to all his faculties and views, by the unlimited power, the irresponsible freedom with which lie acts. He asks no consent, he renders no ac count. He wields at will the population and re-ources of a mighty empire and its dependent states. His successes are magnified with enthusiasm, his failures slightly passed over. An .I against this unity of counsel and this liberty of action, we have to contend under the disadvantages of a mixed and complicated Government. Disadvantages in this respect they undoubtedly are, though happily and gloriously re deemed and compensated by the great and manifold blessings of a cohistitution unequalled by any other system of human policy in the history of the world. Secrecy of design, cele rity of execution, A boldness of adventure arising from fear lessness of responsibility for ill success, arc the qualities the most useful for the vigorous prosecution of military operations. They are advantages which our despotic adversary enjoys in the most eminent degree. They arc those which a free Go vet nment necessarily wants. I doubt whether it be politic to aggravate the inequality of such a contest, by a severity of scrutiny, and a hardness of animadversion upon failure, which, by making responsibility too heavy to be borne, has a ten dency to make all enterprise too hazardous to be attempted. Neither, again, while I a 'mit and lament the failure of this expedition, can I agree with those who consider the disap pointment of a great object of national policy as synonymous with national disgrace, and as pregnant with national ruin." Sir, so say I. cannot consider that what has happened is synonymous with disgrace, or is pregnant with national ruin. I believe that in going to war suddenly with our organisation v ry defective; in undertaking an enterprise more than usually hazardous, we have suffered more than ordinary calamities. Bet I look to many things which are sound, both iu our military anti our political constitution. I cannot but believe that an army which stood, I will not sty the battles of Alma and lukerman, but which with stood the hardships of a winter siege of Sebastopol un brolun, and with its discipline unimpaired, must be formed by a military system equal to its object, a system which to ,ehes men to endure hardships and to meet not glorious, but inglorious death with calmness in the service of their country. (Cheers.) I cannot but think that an army so or ganised, when reinforced, and with less arduous difficul ties to contend against, will he sure to give to their country victory, and to Europe safety and repose. I look to our political constitution. I see in that political constitution defects. Is e moreover, some circumstances which were not the case when Canning spoke—which afford great ob stacles to the efficient operation of the war ; but believe there is a vie tue even in the worst of those defects and in the most cryi g of those evils. I believe that which has been found faulty will be repaired, owing to the general spirit which prevails of looking into every branch of the administration eith the view to correction. I believe likewise, that the spirit of the people of this country is as high as ever it was in war— (hear) —and that it will stop short of no sacrifice in carrying on any enterprise neces sary to maintain the character of the country. (Hear, and sheers ) I hold, that under these circumstances, anti with these prospects before us, with this organisation both mili tary and political, that vote which shall displace the ail- ministration by an assertion that the war was not well conducted, and above all, that it was rash to underteke the expedition to the Crimea—l believe that such re vote of the House of Commons, far from aiding—far from pro moting the success of the war, will, on the contrary, tend to damp the spirit an-1 confuse the minds of the people of this country. (Hear.) I believe that this house will best perform its duty by giving no countenance whatever to the motion 1 the hon. and learned gentleman, which I be lieve w+s conceived in malice, and can tend to no object useful to the state. (Hear, hear.) Mr. BRIGHT would occupy the house only a few minutes while he explained his views on the motion of the hon. and learned member. He did not vote for the previ ous motion of the hon. and learned gentleman on this ground—he perceived in the words of the motion a one sidedness with regard to its application to the different members of the Government, anti he thought that indi cated something like conspiracy towards the noble earl then at the head of the Government, anti that portion of the Cabinet supposed to be particularly associated with him. On that ground he refused to give his vote, though he approved of the constitution of the cons 'ate° when ap pointed. He now gave his entire approbation to the labours of the committee and to their report, which was both ad mirable and judicious; but when the house had the report iu their hands, they were bound, according to all ordinary proceedings, to take some step with regard to it. The noble lord (Lord J. Russell) had been severe on the hon. anti learned gentleman, but he did not blame him, as the hon. and learned gentleman dit not spare the noble lord the other night. (Hear.) The noble lord said the speech of the hon. and learned gentleman was good at the corn in ncement and the end, but the middle was left out. Did the noble lord think that the hon. and learned gentleman ought to have read the whole of the report? The hon. and learned member reasonably thought that the house had m ade themselves fully acquainted with the facts in it, and that t facts were to be t a k en as no t di s p u t e d. Did thenotseelord lord intend that the facts should be dealt with as antiquaries deal with curiosities ? Put into a mu seum for the curious to gaze at. It was the duty of the house to take further proceedings, in case the allegations which had been made were substantiated. Had not all the case against Government been more than made out by the committee ? There could not be a doubt it had. No member of the past or present Government could deny fairly that those statements which had so alarmed the country had been proved to be correct by evidsuce before the committee, which evidence was now laid on the table of that house. And were they to say the whole end of the matter was to be this, that there was to be some change in some of the departments — the Ordnance to be extirpated, and a better concentration of offices established ? Why, the noble 'ord (Lord John Russell) and the noble lord the head (Attie Government (Lira Palmersteu) knew for years before that these offices required change. The late Mr. Hume had over and over again proposed changes should take place, and that proposition found no stronger oppo nents then the noble lord the member tor the City of Lon don and the noble lord the head of the Government. (Hear, hear.) lend now those noble lords wanted to ride off on the plea that the departments were guilty of the evils com plained of, anti not the administrators of them. The hon and learned gentleman the member for Enniskillen had indicated the come Parliament ought to take in respect to dual, who with all the presumption of a red tapist was wont to speak with such contempt of the statements of general officers ? Both these noble lords must also have recollected well what was the condition of the military departments; yet ho never found them acting fairly by their colleague at the head of the War Department, and coming forward to his assistance. He said this because the noble lords sat upon a commission 17 or 18 years ago, for the express pur pose of examining into the military deficiencies of the country, and which reported that the military arrange ments were in a most unsatisfactory and disorganised state. The fact was, the late Cabinet appeared to suppose they could carry on a war with the greatest military power in the world by demonstrations and protocols. (Hear.) While he was afraid, as regarded our subsequent operations, there was some found, tion for the remarks of the hon. member for Manchester, that they were guided by the current of public opinion and the great dissatisfaction of the public Press at the inaction of the army, he could not, however, concur with the hon. gentleman in his denunciation of the public press, or at least a part of it ; for, it must be recol lected, that whatever might have been the amount of un just contumely cast upon individuals by the press, it had conferred immense benefits on the country in awakening it as to the sufferings of its army. (Hear, bear.) For his part he did not hesitate to affirm, that were it not for the press and the loyal and energetic conduct of our noble ally, the Emperor of the French, the army might have perished. At the same time he was forced to admit that the sufferings of the army had been somewhat exaggerated. Of course he deeply regretted what had occurred; but he believed a false impression would be conveyed throughout Europe and the country, if they dwelt in that manner upon what had been the sufferings in the army. Suffered their army certainly had, but not to an extent to cause alarm for their national power, nor as to the result of the contest. ,p t a h ci e ty Governmentand determination Therefore ()fthen , whatever might bo oble lord at the head of his feelings on particular points, he could scarcely feel j cts titled in giving a vote that would have the effect of preci pitating the noble lord from power. Still he was not quite sure that the noble lord had displayed that energy which his friends gave him credit for ; nor was he able to dis cern that any great augmentation had as yet been made to our military strength since his accession to office. (Hear, hear.) it really seemed that this system of protocolline ' at Vienna had paralysed th e exer ti on s of the noble lord. Be fore the Duke of Newcastle went out of office a convention had been entered into, by which a contingent of 20,000 Turkish troops were to be added to our army. Well, six mouths had elapsed since then, and as yet not a single bat talion of those troops hail taken the field. Now he could not help thinking that was a proof of the want of energy on the part of the noble lord. Again, eight or nine months ago they got authority to raise some 4,000 irregular ca valry, under General Beatson, and no one could see that any progress h id been made in the formation of the corps; whil • with regard to the foreign logien, he believed there had been great remissness in carrying that measure into effect, although, if energy had been shown, ho be lieved very gratifying results would have followed He was glad at all events to perceive that his Royal High ness the Duke of Cambridge had been appointed to the command of the legion. But in the case of the legion they were guilty of the same mistake as in enlisting for the line, for the recruits were only getting about half their nominal bounty, the rest being made up in neces saries. As for the militia, he would say at once its history was a continuation of blunders. He had never been in favour of raising a large militia force, and although they had now only one-third of that force embodied, he thought it hail been raised too rapidly. At that moment it was often found they wore recruiting at one end of a village for the line, and at the other end of it for the militia. Now, that was a point which ought to be looked to by the Government, and some arrangedients should be made to prevent such collisions. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the bounty given to the recruits—which was some 9i, or 101.—he could not but forget that when the labour market was in by no means the same state nearly double the amount of bounty was given. Why, how could they expect to get a ble-b )(lied men as recruits for less than 201.? (Hear, hear.) He believed that at the time of the battle of Vittoria there were no less than 67,000 men on the lists of the British army ; and yet in this great contest in the Crimea, England was represented by only some 30,00) men. It, therefore, behoved the noble lord during the leisure of the parliamentary recess to exert himself with real vigour, otherwise he could not be spared in future. They had 2.10,000 men in India, 40,000 of whom were Europeans-20,000 of them being in the company's service, and 20,000 in the Queen's ; nevertheless, all the troops that had been withdrawn from India were two re giments of cavalry, although without the smallest incouve nience they might have drawn from thence a force of 10,000 men. Then, again, their garrisons at Ceylon, the Cape, and Hong-Kong could supply them with 12 battalions, whose places might be filled with sepoy troops. He thought it would have been as well if the noble lord the member for the City of London had abstained from criticising the operations in the Crimea ; at all events he (Sir De Lacy Evans) would not have the courage to follow his example ; and although immense mistakes had been made, which Were chiefly in consequence of the Government not hav ing been in earnest in regard to the war—(hear)—still, considering the results attained, these operations afforded abundant matter for encouragement and hope. He begged of the house to remember how important it was that Europe should be made to feel that no disasters of a military character had befallen the country. (Cheers.) While it was perfectly astounding to reflect what misfor tunes had descended upon the great vaunted powers of Rus sia, there was no error of the allies that could bear the smallest comparison with the passage of the Danube by the Russian army. It had been said that the expedition to the Crimea had been resolved upon too late in the year ; per haps it was a little too late, nevertheless they must not forgot that their army had triumphed in every contest there. (Hear.) Perhaps, also, their recruits were toe young. Indeed he had himself received a letter that day from the Crimea from an officer there, saying that he would no longer be able to recognise his (Sir De Lacy Evans's) old division, so many young boys had been incorporated with the regiments. However, he had every reliance in the noble and euthusiastie spirit of the people ; and he was happy to see that their feelings was responded to by the House of Commons. Therefore, the Government of the noble lord had no excuse for not proceeding with vigour, for never before had a Government been offered such ample suppo - t in the prosecution of a war. (Hear, hear.) This was a war for the national independence of civilised nations. It was impossible to conceive any war-of deeper intareet than the present. When the expedition was first Mr. MIINTZ considered that the whole of the late Ad ministration ought to be considered blameable, and he could not admit that one member only should be subjected to censure. He charged the Aberdeen Administration, with want of foresight—want of candour—want of deter mination—want of preparation—want of knowledge, and especially with want of business-like knowledge. He (Mr. Huntz) (lid not find it possible to vote against the motion, and he did not like the ambiguous course of voting for the previous question ; therefore he thought it was the best plan to vote for the motion, and that he should do. (Hear.) Mr. S. HERBERT asked for a patient and indulgent hearing from the house while he addressed it on a subject iu which he was peculiarly interested. (Hear.) It was his intention to vote against the motion of his hon. and gallant friend opposite (General Peel), and ho would tell the hones why in a very few minutes. (Hear, hear.) He stood in a peculiar position, and in one personally different from that of most members of the house; be stood, in the words of the hon. and learned gentleman, in the position of one against whom counts of an indictment had been brought forward. (Hear.) It was said that he and his right hon. friends attempted to burke the appointment of the com mittee, and that they were afraid of an investigation ; but it could not be said that when the investigation had closed they shrunk from the judgment of the House of Commons on the evidence laid before it. (Hear, hear.) They were justified in asking, after all the accusations that had been brought against them, on what grounds it appeared that they, when Ministers of the Crown, were culpable and neglectful of the interests of the country. (Hear, hear.) It was said by the right hon. member for Droitwitch that they were not discussing the policy of theexpeditioa to Sebastopol —but he (Mr. S. Herbert) certainly thought that the report contained not only an opinion respecting, but a strong con demnation of, that policy. The right hon. baronet was therefore entirely illogical in saying that the committee was not to meddle with that policy, and that they were not to touch upon it in the debate. When the discussion on the motion of the committee took place, they warned the house of the danger that would arise from an investigation of this description. They said they should either give criti cal opinions on the policy of the French Government and the manipulations of the French army, or else, avoiding those questions, they would come to no conclusion, or come to a conclusion on insufficient evidence that would be un just, and made attacks upon men who would not have an opportunity of facing their accusers. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentleman the member fur Droitwich said that he would not consent to be a member of the committee un less the inquiry was intended to be a searching one. But had it been a searching inquiry? Why, in the first sentence of the report the committee expressed their regret that per sons were left labouring under imputations with regard to which they could not pronounce any decisive opinion. He believed the members of the committee were honestly de sirous of performing their duty. The hon. and learned chairman of the committee discharged his duties with great assiduity, and no complaint could be made against him for submitting a motion to the house, for nothing could be more constitutional than to ask the opinion of the house on the report. He quite dissented from the doctrine of the right he member for Droitwich, that no offensive move ment should be•made in a defensive war. The Duke of Wel lington went to defend Spain. According to the right hon. baronet be ought never to have entered France. For a ma ritime country like Englandengaged in a war with a country like Russia, at an immense distance, it could not be denied that the natural and most effective way of conducting it would be by maritime blockade. But inthis particularcase such a plan of warfare was impossible; the object was to de fend Turkey, and for this purpose it was necessary to enteron military operations. No point of the Russian empire offered so many chances of success or so many rewards as Sebastopol, at which a blow struck would be felt as affecting a vital point. He must say further that before the house adopted this resolution, and passed a vote of censure upon the con duct of those who originated the expedition, they ought to reflect what its effect would bo upon the army of the Cri mea. If they thought the expedition would ultimately be successful let the house admit it ; but if, on the other hand, they wished to blame those who originated it, let them first consider what effect the blame would have upon the feelings of the men who were now engaged in the expedition. Those men knew nothing about party intrigues ; they looked upon the decision of the house as the verdict of the country, and he need not anticipate what their feelings would be when they should hear that Parliament had pronounced their labours to be all in vain. (Hear, hear.) He had entered at some length into this point, because he did not wish to shrink from taking his share of the responsi bility attached to the expedition. (Hear, hear.) If it had so far failed, he had the satisfaction of knowing that the late Government did their hest to insure its success. He admitted that there wore failures, that great errors were committed, but he thought these failures would have been remedied earlier if there had not been so much exag geration as to render it almost impossible to get at the truth ; but still he must repeat that every effort that human foresight could suggest was made to insure the strength and efficient organisation of the army in the field. The late Government had great difficulties to contend with, but he trusted those who came after them found many of the difficulties cleared away, and that they were now vigo rously acting to insure the public service. He was at a loss, then, to discover what good was to result from passing a vote of censure upon all the members of the late Govern ment. It might have the effect of excluding men of capa city and experience from the public service in future, but that would be a positive injury rather than a good to the country. However, he was quite ready to submit to the decision of the house, and if the house deter mined to censure him for the failure of the past, he should have the consolation of knowing that he had done his utmost to secceed. (Cheers.) He said, then, that he trusted to the justice of the house, and if they gave due weight to the considerations he had taken the liberty to suggest to them, he should not fear their verdict. He ap pealed to their justice to look to the whole case, and to weigh well the evidence upon which the report was founded ; but, whatever the result might be, he would not shrink from a decision upon the main question. He would not give the go-by to the decision of the committee, but he should vote against the previous question, because men's characters were implicated in the original resolution, and upon that resolution the house should pronounce a distinct opinion—aye or no. (Cheers.) Mr. E. ELLICE (Coventry) said he thought the time of the house would be much better occupied with a thorough examination of the measures soon to be laid on the table for the reorganisation of the War Departments than in passing resolutions condemnatory of the members of the late Government. (Hear, hear,) Sir G. GREY was ready to accept his full share of responsibility as a member of Lord Aberdeen's Govern ment. But the motion was directed, according to Mr. Roebuck, specially against Lord Palmerston. Bet it wee no secret that when that gentleman proposed tho commit tee it was directed against those members of the Govern ment who had special charge of the war departments, and it was no secret either that overtures were made to the other members of the Government that if they would turn out their colleagues the remaining members should have ample support in reconstructing the Administration. Those offers were refused, and the Ministry went out of office together. Now it was proposed to pass a special vote of censure upon Lord Palmerston, though the Earl of Derby, with all these circumstances full in view, had se lected him as the leader of his intended Government in that house. The Government would have supported a direct negative to this vote, but as the great majority of the members of the committee were in favour of the pre vious question, the Government was prepared to agree with them. Lord J. MANNERS urged upon the Government to come to a direct vote, and not to take shelter under the previous question. Lord PALMERSTON said—At that late hour of the night it is not my intention to occupy the house for any 1 1 great length of time ; but I must be allowed to say that I think this motion is one of the most extraordinary which has ever been made within the walls of Parliament, whether we consider the time at which it is made, or the manner in which persons are brought within its scope. For myself, I am far from wishing to disclaim that full responsibility , which the hon. and learned member for Sheffield and these who act with him wish to affix upon every member of the Government of Lord Aberdeen, for every act which that Government performed, or failed to perform. I am ready to acknowledge, without distinction of officers, that if any one member of the Government can be et awn to have been guilty of gross neglect of the duties of hie office, that you are entitled to call upon the other members of Government to account for not having, either by their advice or remonstrance, endeavoured to ob tain a change of thatcourse of conduct which is deserving of censure. But the manner in which the hon. and learned member for Sheffield wishes on the present occasion to fix the responsibility and to accompany it by the censure of this house is certainly somewhat singular and remarkable. When I say that every member of a Government is answer able collectively for the conduct of that Government, there must be, in common sense, some distinction between those who have particular departments to administer and the degree in which blame may attach to others who have been occupied by the business of their own departments, and who cannot be supposed to have exercised any interfe rence, which would in fact have been improper, in the de partments of his colleagues, with which he wastotally uncon nected. In this case, what was the committee appointed to inquire into ? It was the conduct of departments charged with administering to the wants of the army. Those depart men+a were the Secretary of State for War, the Secretary at•War, and the Admiralty, which were particularly en gaged in the conduct of the war. No doubt the head of the Government was, by virtue of his office, entitled to that degree of interference with the conduct of the members of the Government which the other colleagues would not have exercised with respect to special departments. What, then, was the opinion of the committee after all the inquiry which it had made ? That opinion has been pronounced by the hon. and learned gentleman the chairman of the com mittee. He has paid a handsome but not more than a just tribute to the manner in which the heads of these departments performed their duties. (Cheers.) Having thus awarded his praise to jhose whose special duty it was to minister to the wants of the army, he vow directs his censure against those members of the Government. of Lord Aberdeen who had not the duty of ministering .t. , 0 0 the wants of the army, and who would be willing i t t e ac t l : 4 the share of the blame and responsibility which Med to the heads of those departments. But, having rlu raised the heads of those depastments from ti? the manner in which they 1 10 4 ( LW:smell their u asked the house to pass its censure upon those other mem bers of the Administration who concurred in the general good administration of the three members who had been absolved from all blame. (Cleers.) But if censure was to be passed upon the members of the late Administra tion who were members of the present Government, I must say that I think some honourable gentlemen on the other side are not altogether likely to escape " scot free" from the censure of the house. Because it is all very well for the noble lord (Lord J, Manners) to say, as he has just said, that the evidence given before the committee of in quiry has ulterad the state of the case with respect to the proceedings of the late Government ; but the general facts upon which the censure of the honourable and learned member is founded, were facts notorious to all the world at the time the committee was appointed. (Hear, hear.) That committee has obtained no new information with respect to facts. (Hear.) It has inquired into the man ner which these facts arose, and in which mistakes and ini , tl-ances occurred. But the main facts of the sufferings of the ermy, the unfortunate condition in which during the winter months that army was unhappily placed—these were facts perfectly known to the whole world before that committee was appointed, and it was the knowledge of these facts which induced the house to agree to the appoint ment of that committee. (Cheers.) But what did Lord Derby do when he was called upon to form a Government? He, knowing that the members of Lord Aberdeen's Go vernment had rendered themselves liable to censure, pro posed to nay:3elf, to the right hon. gentleman the member for the University of Oxford, and the right hon. member for Wilts, to become members of his Administration. That offer, which I thought equally honourable to those who made it, and to those to whom it was made, now turns out, according to the arguments and conduct of honourable members opposite, to have been accompanied with some mental reservation, and that we were to be merely trepanned into office. (Cheers and laughter.) I don't believe that words such as those stated by the hon. and learned gentleman could have been area. I have too high an opinion of Lord Derby to credit that he would have made an offer with such a reservation. But the hou se is now called on to pass a censure on an existing Government on account of the transactions of a Government which no longer exists, and at the same time charges are made against me for things which have passed in the Govern ment. In the first place I must say that there has been a singular conflict of opinions among the different persons who have addressed the house on this motion. Some con- tend that the motion has nothing to do with the policy of the war or with the policy of the expedition to the Crimea. Others have dwelt greatly on the policy of the war and on the policy of the expedition to the Crimea. But I should like to know whether that is or is not to be an element in the votes which hon gentlemen are about to give. (Hear, hear.) I shall not now go into the question of the policy of the war, on which the whole nation has made up its mind. Nor shall I go into the reasons which led the Government to think it was necessary to take up arms to check the am bitious designs of Russia. Nor shall I describe the circum stances which induced Russia to think that the moment was favousAle for putting into execution its long-cherishel designs on Turkey. Nor shall I allude to the opinion that was entertained by Russia that there were circumstances connected with England and France which might have prevented a cordial union—an opinion as fallacious as it was futile. Nor shall I advert to other circumstances in this country which might have misled the Emperor of Russia. But I must be allowed to say that, among the many circumstances which led the Russian 'Government into error, the language and conduct of the peace party in this country tended greatly to increase it, and the responsibility rests on them of having misled the Em . . peror of Russia in this act of aggression. (Cheers.) But the war being just and necessary, the question is how Is that war being c trried on ? There are those who main tain that we should not have gone to the Crimea. But I a-k them where else should we have gone ? Would they have been satisfied had we merely blockaded the Russian harbours? - Would they have our armies enter upon the vast steppes of the Russian Empire, where victories might possibly have been obtained, but where it would not have been possible to have achieved ultimate success. (Hear.) The Crimea was the place to go to—that was the place where the blow should be struck, ns the centre of that Russian power and dominion in the Black Sea which constituted the danger to Turkey, to avert which we had gone to war. _ . It was thei efore in tlie Crimea that the policy obviously was to attempt to strike a great and a decisive blow. No doubt that the difficulties have turned out greater than were at first expected, but the gallantry of the allied armies have re flected immortal honour on them. Their sufferings had bees groat, but their heroism had been greater than their suffer ings. (Cheers.) I say, then, that if that be part of the ques tion to be decided to-night—if the policy of going to attack Sebastopol be ono of the elements on which the hon. and I,arned gentleman rusts, I am ready to take my fullest share of the responsibility in that decision ; and whatever may be the mischances and difficulties which have prevented suc cess, I am as strongly convinced to-day as when I gave that opinion that we were right in going to the Crimea, and that no other courso we could have adopted would have been equally effective in attaining our object. (Hear, hear.) But we are told that having determined on going to war we failed in making adequate preparations for carrying it on with vigour. I deny that charge. The Duke of Newcastle did everything a man could do to send the army to the sent of action. Never before did there leave these shores an army so well equipped, or in such numerical force. Nor did my noble friend neglect to provide reserves for the war, so far as the establishments we had enabled the Government to provide. (Hear, hear.) We have been told that there was great neglect about the militia, and that for that I was particularly responsible. The act brought in by the right honourablo gentleman did not, under the paiticular circumstances in which wo stood —did not technically give us the power of embodying the militia—at lo.tst so it was thought, because we were not actually in danger of invasion. In former times we were always on the breaking out of war in danger of invasion, but that could not be said of the present war. It, there fare, became necessary to change the law, and we put it in the power of the militia voluntarily to offer themselves for embodiment. Between the months of April and Septem ber we Was embodied 17 regiments of militia by volun tary offers. We were restricted in one respect ; we could not embody more than could be put into barracks. But from October to December 33 regiments more were em bodied, so that we had 110 regiments of militia embodied by the end of December, making 38,000 men of an effec tive force. (Hear, hear.) Some people argued one way and some the other. Some complained that we did not embody the whole of the militia, others contended that it was not a force applicable to the circumstances of the war. But the nature of the militia was that it gave recruits for your army, and though we could not embody all, all were under arms, and the number enlisted under arms up to November was 5,500, and the number since enlisted was 12,700, so that we have actually 18,000 mon given to the regular army from the militia since the war began. We are greatly indebted to the corn manclingofficers for their zeal and self-denial, but for which we could not have had this great augmentation of recruits. These militia recruits, too, have been found infinitely more available for service than younger men. (Eloar, hear.) Well, then, I do not feel that I am open to any blame for the manner in which I have made the militia available for the public service. But if the honourable and learned gentleman meant a direct censure against those members of Lord Aberdeen's Government who were not imme diately in war departments, he at least might have given them the opportunity of being heard before his committee. So far from thinking that they should form part of the inquiry, he never called me or my right hon. friends before the committee- we were never summoned, nor was a question asked us. If our conduct was to be impugned we should have been asked what we had to state in our defence. (Cheers.) But I think this is a strange and singular Parliamentary movement. I can conceive that a person who thinks that a Government are doing something injurious—l can understand a person calling on Parliament to interpose and sweep away a Government which is hur rying the country on the way to ruin ; but the hon. and learned genitlewan does not impeach us for anything we are doing as a Government existing. (Hear, hear.) He goes back to November and December last, though his motion is made in the month of July. His motion is founded on circumstances which have ceased to exist, and there is no part of his motion which has reference to the conduct of the Government that now occupies the Minis terial seats, and that is charged with the conduct of the affairs of the country. But it may be fetid, though he did not maintain it, that the present Government is guilty of the same Inches that he imputes to the Go vernment of Lord Aberdeen. How is that the case? The ermy which was in November and December in a condition so painful to the feelings of every one who heard of it is in a different state now. (Hear, hear.) Is it now in a state that it is necessary for Parliament to find a remedy ? Exactly the contrary. It is in as fine a con dition as any army that ever existed on the face of the earth. In spirit, in everything that constitutes efficiency in military affairs ' it is a pattern to be imitated, instead of an example to be deplored. (Cheers.) There is nothing upon which the ceeduct of the Government can be im peached with regard either to the military or the naval service. Then what is the object of the motion? The hon. and learned gentleman avows it plainly. It is not against the Government of Lord Aberdeen. He talks indeed of our train - ing all the men of mark on this side of the house. He means no such thing. What he wants is that the house should in terpose to remove the Government of the day. Has he shown any grounds tor it ? Not the slightest in the world. All he has been able to allege is, that in the months of Novem ber, December, and part of January, the army was in a bad condition. The hon. and learned gentleman calls upon the house to vote a censure upon the Government of the day not for any misconduct of the Government, but because, forsooth, evils existed in the autumn and winter of last year which have now ceased to exist. Although no doubt the merit of their cessation is due in great measure to the brave and gallant officer in command of the army, I think that if the Government is to be blamed for that which may locally go wrong, they are also entitled to praise for that which locally goes right. The hon. and learned gentle man has censured the Government of Lord Aberdeen on one ground, which is totally without foundation. He says that the members of the Government neglected so en tirely the conduct of these great and important affairs that from the month of August to the middle of October there was no meeting of the Cabinet, and he implies that the ministers were all absent from their pests. Why, sir, who were at their posts? There was the Duke of Newcastle, the Secretary of State for War, who, I believe, never left his post for a single hour. There was my right honourable friend the Secretary-at-War, who was also con stantly at his post in London. There was my right honour able friend the first Lord of the Admiralty, who, I believe,_r3 was hardly ever absent from his duty. There was the First Lord of the Treasury, Lord Aberdeen, who was constantly in town ; and Lord Clarendon, the Secretary most Foreign affairs. Is not that a Cabinet ? Five with thus? important membersof the Government, charged itn e t o u n u s °Y . require departments, the business of which might have mot at any deration, were all on the spot, and might required. But hour of any day for o t S h t e a to for on which a council 7::et A ltogether out were the other members of the Geyer ceased of reach ? The hon. and learned h a l e on : l v ar e s : been required, memberi asked t r ae w na cyhhe moment fo l mL w ee un it s t. during the t d h a e il t y im co e m . m l u w ni a c s a wi tio t n hi wi nth hi r g e ih e t at which my advice or pre s ence I say that this is an unworthy attempt ye.rfbroughtntmhee their rmt duties, uh h tai e te r sh e a t s o with my colleagues. a very few hours would cioos n.enha haverGg Government who were devoting themselves to cast blame upon in like thefive colleagues whom I near hear.) It is anand unworthy ne at temptnever quitted matter to such an extent as to t q o ui t t h t e ed eon th sc e i i e r nt have mentioned. eased ve t s o to cast blamentup exist, to misrepresent convey the impression that there wore not const a ntly in London suffi cient members of the Cabinet to have taken into consideration and have determined upon anything oec in (Hear.) October. Letit The also t,at b tl e e of that might ha ve re q uire d immediate delib era ti on or deci gnte remembered hAlma th w at as ftheouCgabbt to wards m the end of September, and, suf ferings of the army did not in point of fact, the commence until after the meeting of the Cabinet —until all the members of the Go= vernment were at their posts in London. 'Without long delaying the house _from the decision to which I hope it will come, I Must- sa y th a t I accept t h e prev i ous question moved by the hon, and gallant member, because I agree With those who think that the inquiries of the committee which they had declared it to be their intention to support. Here was, according to the noble lord, a vote of censure on the Government, and how was it met ? By a motion which literally implied that the house declined to express an opi nion on their conduct. But it appeared to him that the house had something to consider beyond the question of confidence in Ministers, or in the gentlemen who sat oppo site to him ; and to that the noble lord had not alluded in the course of his speech. The motion referred to the con duct of statesmen who were no longer members of the Ad ministration, and they, much to their honour, insist that the verdict of the house should bo explicitly taken respecting them. Was justice to be stepped, to use the words of the Attorney-l4eneral ? No ; they said, "We protest against the convenience of the Minister being the cause of subjecting us to an imputation which ought to be cleared up to the satisfaction of the house." Let the house remember what had been the course of events with regard to this motion. A few months before a committee to in quire into the state of the army before Sebastopol had been appointed by an immense majority of that house. What was the cause of the appointment of that com mittee? Was it the feeling of the house? No; it was the feeling of the country. As lnkerman was said to have been the soldier's battle, that committee might have been called the people's committee. (Hoar.) After a pro tracted iuve:tigation, a decision was come to, and the chairman of that committee now submitted a resolution embodying the case on which that decision was founded. He thought it only right that the house should express an opirion on that resolution one way or the other, and that the conduct of the noble lord respecting it was the most unauthorised he could remember. The course the noble lord took was to deny the conclusion of the committee, and the value of its researches. The noble lord said that the assumption of the committee that the Cabinet were not present in London, anti did not meet in August and September, was unfounded. But if the noble lord wan satisfied that that statement was untrue, ought he to take refuge in the previous question ? Ought he not rather to have said, "Those labours of the Sebastopol committee are superficial—they have been conducted in a spirit unbe comieg the occasion, and they have nulled the people. I will not permit the authority of the Government to be in jured by these unfounded statements'. I will vindicate my policy and the character of pubic men, and I call upon you, the House of Commons, not to falter in a doubt even, but to declare your opinion, that this committee have not done their duty fairly, but have performed it in a fraudulent spirit— they have misled the country and poisoned the public mind, and unless you come to a decision which shall vindicate us, we cannot consent to carry on the Government." That was the duty of the noble lord. But the noble lord said. this was a party motion. Aliarty motion brought forward by wham ? By an hon. member who, six weeks ago when he brought forward a motion involving the existence of the Government, voted in favour of the noble lord. (Hear.) In considering the course they ought to take they were to be influeneed first by the unequivocal demand of the right hon. tuembsr for Carlisle and his late colleagues, that the opinion of the house should be taken on the real question at issue, and still more they were bound to have regard to the feeling out of doors that the validity of the report of the Sebastopol committee, which had been questioned by the noble lord, should be tested by the opinion of the house. He lamented that they were called upon by the amendment of the gallant general to evade the real question at issue ; but if he (Mr. Disraeli) lied only party objects in view, he should be well satisfied that that course had been taken. (llear.) But the gravity of the question, and the reality of the issue, he should .rave thought would have rendered it impossible for any perion whose conduct was called is question by the report of the committee to consent to shelter himself under such a subterfuge—he should have thought that the noble lord would have been the first to call upon the gallant general not to embarrass the decision of the house by interposing the previous question. But they were told that if they passed such a motion as had been submitted by the hon. and learned member for Shef field, they would ostracise the great majority of public men who now sat on the ministerial benches. He (M.r. Disraeli) heard now for the first time that a Minister against whom a vote of want of confidence was passed, was ostracised and for ever after prevented from holding office under the Crown. (Hear.) Why, there were few statesmen in that house who had not at some time or other been subjected to such a vote. The noble lord had previously been a member of a Government against whom such a vote had been carried, and yet he was in office, and the noble lord the member for London had suffered the same kind of condemnation ; and that he was not still sitting on the Treasury bench was not because he was ostracised by a vote of the House of Commons. They had a dissertation from the right lion, baronet the Home Secretary on ministerial responsibility ; but the right hon. baronet appeared to be inconsistent in his argument. At first he was for complete and undivided responsibility among the whole body of Ministers ; but he concluded his speeeh by a pathetic de scription of the hardship of a Secretary of State for the Home Department being expected to call every slay at the Admiralty to know how things were going on in that de partment, or of a President of the Board of Control having to wait at the Foreign•offiee to see that the right despatches were sent off. What did the right hon. gentleman mean ? Wes he for ministerial responsibility or not ? The noble lord had referred in conneet'fre with the appointment of the committee to the late attempt of Lord Derby to form a Ministry. But the friends of LotdiDerbycantiouslyguarded themselves (certainly he himself had uut done so)—against expressing any opinion when they supported the motion for a committee, further than that there ought to be an inquiry. And did the noble lord moan to say that in the interval when the inquiry was going on Lord Derby was to assume that the result would be eliminatory to the statesmen who were then the advisers of her Majesty ? . Such an assumption would not have been very charitable to the noble lord opposite and his colleagues. He had, s however, seen statesmen invited to join a cabinet upon the faith of a solemn pledge as to the policy which would be s pursued, to find, after being trepanned into the acceptance • of office, that pledge violated. Lord PALMERSTON—That is not true. Mr. DISRAELI—Ho used the term in a Parliamentary sense. What he meant to say was that the right ri honht. h g onen e . leman the member for Oxford Univ ersit y , g member for Wilts, and the right ho n. In member b on the faith of e Carlisle r for had been induced to join the au understanding in referen:e Governmenttoitttheee which m otion for the ap pointment of the Sebastopol committee, Y understand ing not having been maintainceedttie leftoffice. The noble lord had to-night put forw ar d fresh claims to the confi dence of the country. He said he was carrying on the war with vigour and energy, that the country was deter mined upon continuing the war and carrying it on to a suc cessful issue, a nd that the noble lord was the only man and circurustances, determination, eeu unde su hhe appealed to who could satisfy that the House of Commons whototeelyo wa. , glad to hear from the noble lord this they would interfere by a v _ sure to prevent him. Ile (Mr. Disraeli) doing and account of what he 1k Ag inte n d e d t o 'AO. * What had been the description given that very night of the course* t h e noble lord was put suing by G enera l Evans ? That gallan t g eneral had said he h ad confidence in thepro fessions of the noble lord, b ut that his deeds did not re alise those professions. This was the opinion of the highest military authority in the house, who had recently returned from the seat of war . ($ ear.) ear.) The gallant general had complained that neither the Turkish contingent nor the Foreign Legion were yet embodied ; and yet the gallant gentleman was the devoted political adherent of the noble lord. Probably his in account be reliable than the narrative of the n a ob d l e e ta l i o l r e d d h on im e ' wasself. more l'he noble lord h a d sought to defend his conduct in regard to the militia ; but he could not deny the broad fact that he delayed for months to put the act into operation, and whoa questioned about it, said that ho did so on account of the expense. (Hear.) Frequent allusion was made in that house to the probable effect which these discussions might have on our relation with France. Any public man who pursued that course, and availed himself of such a pretext, did more to endanger the alliance, and shake it to its cen‘ tro, than all those who took the opposite side. The divi sion was now about to be called, and be blushed to think of the result. After two nights' debate, with the whole country watching their proceedings, they were coming to a vote which could confer no honour or credit on that as semblage collectively, or on any individual in it. (Hear.) Mr. ROEBUCK replied. He said—l take shame to myself for once in my life. I have indulged in panegyric ; but, like almost all other men who attempt a character to w hi c h they are not accustomed, I have failed in representing it, and have failed also most completely in making myself understood. (Hear, and a laugh.) Perhaps I may fail again in attempting to make an expla nation, but, as I shall not attempt to eulogise, perhaps I may be successful. I did object to making the Duke of Newcastle a scapegoat. - I gave the noble duke credit for industry and good intentions; and I said that he had done his duty according to his ability. Did Igo one whit be yowl the truth in ie saying? Then lam turned rend .upon-because I am said to have eulogised the nobl e da le I and to have excluded him from the operation of the rose- Wien WWII norma l Sir, I did no such thin i but I were not and could not be complete in regard to the points to which they directed their investigations. It was im possible for the committee to obtain a complete elucida tion of all the circumstances connected with the sufferings of the army without entering into details which they them selves very properly felt they were precluded from entering upon. Therefore, upon that ground, if upon no other, I am disposed to think that the motion of the hon. and learned gentlemen ought not to be put to the house ; but undoubt edly if the house should determine that that question shall be put, I shall then, with my right hon. friends, deem it right to oppose an absolute negative to the proposition. But, sir,l think the time is not appropriate to these sortof motions. I think that these sort of motions are not in unison with the feelings and the temper of the country. We are engaged in a great and important war. I do not wish to exaggerate its I:Lingual:lde, but on the other hand it would net be very Unwise to depreciate its importance. We are engaged iu a war which requires the united feeling and determination of the whole country. The feeling and determination of this country are united. The minds of the people are fixed upon the war. They care little for these party squabbles in this house. The country is indifferent what party shall form the Government, provided that party shall carry on the war with vigour, provided it di rects the energies of the country in the manner in which the country desires to see them directed. I must say that in my humble opinion the nation is not well satisfied at seeing this house spending night after might—(cheers)--in discussing now for the third or fourth time motions of cen sure for the avowed purpose of removing the- Administra tion. I think the country is better pleaeeel Wen it sees the house doing, what I am bound to say it has with greatho nour to itself and great advantage to she country done— plecifigia the hands . of the Government, of whomsoever it may consist, the means of prosecuting with rigour the was in which we are engaged. Sir, that is a war from which we have no retreat but in victory. It is aw:r in which we cannot get the victory without the united effort of all parties both in and out of this house. I should be quite ready to yield the position which I occupy if I. thought other men were more capable to unite in themselves the confidence of the country and to wield its energies than those who are now in office; but until I shall be shown —and I confess that conviction has not yet come upon my mind—we shall feel it our duty to perform the functions with which the com mands of the Crown, the confidence of this house, and the voice of the country have charged us. In spite of the little interruptions which motions like this may from time to time interpose, we shall feel it our duty to second what I believe to be the most deliberate convictions and heartfelt dete:rninaticat that ever animated a great and powerful people—to carry on with vigour, to prosecute with energy, and to crown with success the war in which by every mo tive of necessity, and every sense of justice, we have been compelled to engage. (Cheers.) Mr. DISRAELI said, an unwillingness to trespass oaths attention of the house, at that late hour, was very much diminished by the knowledge that it was not his intention to detain it more than a very few moments ; but the truth wan that the question upon which they had to decide, had been presented in so many. and such ambiguous aspects, that ho felt bound to say a few words respecting the line he should adopt respecting it. They had heard much disous sion respecting party motions, party feeling, and party ob jects, but if he were to choose a motion which should be most consistent with party objects—if he were to select a course, ou the part of an administration, whish he thought ' would strengthen an opposition, it would be the course which Government was about to take, and the motion I