The Sun. — London, England, 1842-03-08 00:00:00

scores of letters, requesting him not to be put down by ,457 opposition i n t h at House, but to stand forth true to e truth: That was th e b as i s on w hi ch he had addressed thel;Dose; on that basis held ,on that - asis he wld u° tall, and on the part of t the stand working classes he "uPloreiriliem for . a Select Committee. ),I Mr ' VILLIERS said he did not know what the Hon. ‘m ot eel he l xr who had j ust sat down meant by asking Hon. 4mon his s id e o f the House for a Committee of 1111 7- Be thought it was hi s ( t h e H on. M em b er f or ofttl'es,,l?orough's) duty to move for an inquiry, and he sideilliers) was sure that there was no one on his tr ar °f the H ouse who would oppose him ; on the con 4, every one wou ld support h i m. Nnie l ELDEN, who s p o k e i n a very l ow t one o f de a l 'o , D a, und e r s t oo d t o sa y th at l ie b e li eve d a grea t Kaapeoitruth h a d f a ll en f rom the Hon. Member for ers -- c urn ugh, but he believed that the farm that of carrying. on the same trickery as Th e ' fr ° ' which the manufacturers were guilty. Member was then understood to advert to a thatl e ' at elY brought aga i nst a poor man , w h o s t a ted had , e was drive n b y di stress to comm i t t h e o ff ence ; he thou'? g h maintain himself, a wife, and five children ; and d eans it was then th e d e pth o f w i n ter, he had no w e - ek ( )f gettin g a fire. He had earned nothing that of ,„ 1 ,'. 411 (1 the week b e f ore h e earne d on ly 6 s . 3d., out the r eich he paid two debts of ls. 3d. and ls. 40., and hi s f:nning 3 a.'7A-d. was all he had for the support of wh o -- Ivy• He stated these facts to the Magistrate, i llinr s a'a that that was not a justification . for acting distress The poor man admitted that, but said that " r "e men to do what they would not otherwise to the " he was sent to prison, he would get something of and he was then starving. The fate, however, costs Poor man.was, that he was fined 10s., including sai d 'i l On the sentence being announced, the poor man co nl e e °ud not pay 10d., much less 10s., and he was 41.- Mit-tett to prison for 14 days. These crimes did not fri i: n e from the dishonesty of the working classes, but itn niers t e l l c. sheer poverty in which the country was th!lr- LA.AITITON said that as a Member for one of suh n°rth eru- counties he took a great interest in the „,„Jrt then befor e the House ; and he certainly could roit t „„ el P s aYing that there- ought to be a Select Coin a,PPointed to i nqu i re i n t o t h e ma tt er . —(H ear , de was sure that that was the feeling of the wh—', h nd II() rose to as k th e H on . G e ntle ma n opposite I T e woad move f o r a C o mmittee. warar.i!:EIZRAND said that when he had brought for- Lit4l tot charg es the Hon. Member for Wolverhampton 14 4 ~ `L him that th e ma tt er s h ou ld no t res t w h ere it f:• -tle had tholig,ht after that statement of the Hon. Mher for Wolverhampton that lie would instantly ask ),,,r,a Select Committee, in order that the charges might iiruvestigated, He had now only to say that-he would r moye for a SeleCt Committee of Inquiry be ()re kt k i r ' if some other H on . Member had not previously , t r e such a motion. • ch i r . VILLIERS- said that he had already repelled the l2 ha t , ! g e '.. Re had produced a statement, signed by —`llfaetUreS, to. Show that they were Unfounded. THE NAVY ESTIMATES. • 1 tleror Captain, PE.CHELL said that'he wished to correct an tae' , .,.';',oich had been committed in the reports of what 'thear e n from him the Other evening in the debate on : pre ssed av Y Estimates It was stated that he had ex himself :ainse favourable to large estimates for the pur 7 latio °f equipping more powerful fleets on the several n • Now, that statement was altogether erroneous. t hat ou e h N tlemen opposite . had . said on former occasions -TIN 1. avY Wits in an inefficient state and ought to be lu t a red ; but he had been of a different opinion. He to in it , w aYs maintained the proper policy for this country *state, ti L e, was not to'exhaust her strength in the peace deeip t itment:. The Minister of Marine of France had Iliff e - ,, - the statement of an intended reduction. The NV II , 'bence between himself and the Right Hon. Baronet li nrio etween the Minister of Finance and the Minister of the fact' Re was inclined to attach the most credit to s,l.enr on such matters. It was quite clear that the clu e e h Government were not in the least disposed to re • t o e oleir force. He approved of the policy of the Noble lkili e d ' the Member for Tiverton, and he trusted that that Y W Qultl,-be pursued by the present Government. A ft% THE MURDER OF WARDLE. ari ob - CONNELL begged to trouble the House with 4of 2eet,rVation on a matter which was personal to him solue chef had been attributed to him in public that in nnth° hs ervations which he had made respecting the ot h e clergy, i n Sp a i n , he had s a id that he did etit4Otaplain ,of such of the clergy being prose- (4 4 , 1 , ,','' were of Carlist. politics. He had meant to c!aiiiAi!distinction, that for any act . done politically as Vo i ihr.he had no sympathy with their sufferings. He lif e now make one or two observations in reference to motiontlie of which he had given notice, for a return of er ne ,gstered a rms i n t h e coun ty o f D own . Th a t rather .044 it of the murder of a young man named WArdle; kr, (3 . e most cruel murders that was ever committed. e, e ` Ardle was an exceedingly fine youth, more than tto 4 t three inches in height, of exeellent conduct, and te m , e-h f ,' Per- On Christmas evening he was at a pub "t ;use, and a quarrel arose between a friend of his, of date t r, e °f M`Keon, and an Orangeman, and to tenni 'rh !-• quarrel he put his own friend out of the house. been e wa s a party of thirty or forty persons, who had 'Pai• t ° lit at shooting-match during the day, and this d 1 i n t. ,' ere informed by Scott, the other party engage 1 their quarrel, of what had taken place. They resumed fuse,'a and called out to be admitted ; on be.ing Ct r s ' and they forced an entrance, and broke the windows, g e ..4,-. 0 . a ud furniture. M'Ardle escaped to another pub r , use, at the distance of a mile and a half. There iit 4 A P _ in ,, i red, and dragged from an _ inner r _ room Vu d 7'n )or. He escaped a mile . further ;he :MON i 'they found him lying by a lime-kiln,dragged , kti %alio ) ng the road, and one of them shot him dead. .W4 r ° riot wish to 'throw blame upon any party ; but i l ly,, v 2 .8 a shout in Court—the usual Orange cry— O lt -- Ha s Party were acquitted. The Jury who, with hesitation, acquitted the men on the charge of mur 7 71, : oun,i _, u them guilty of a riot—a pretty good proof a. '" 't was an anomalous verdict. Another murder had s e ' trred since ; another young man had been shot by h 11 ,, , k'ty of the same description immediately after the ",cler to which he had alluded. What protection was ere 't such practices were to be allowed ? What he tf, ° l ll aii ied of was, that the Magi: trates did not do t tti ..k r r u.taiost to suppress ' such meetings. The Magis , 'es-toek uo step to repress what he (Mr. O'Connell) 4i tte ei'Ved to be a - flagrant violation of the law. They , abn v ed arms and ammunition to remain in the hands of eif o t klividaals who had perpetrated this murder. Every . 4i rt ought to have been made to punish those persons. M e, lvolibl content himself with moving that a return itidd before the House of the numbers, names, and de -alp: " 'e it l of the persons who had registered arms in the ' • utY of Down. 'l c. ite 3 'PEAKER havingput the question, to 40 rd ELIOT sa id—H e h ope d b e m i g ht b e permitted ai e na ke a-few obser va ti ons on th e s t a t emen t o f the Right - to - i ! 3 •• and L earne d G ent l eman. It was no li g h t matter :li r nriltign the ve r di c t o f a j ur y, p ar ti cu l ar ly when the .. tk e of a f e ll ow-creatnre was at stake. He (Lord Eliot) tr ti ght himself b oun d to say that looking.to the evi- Ze, to the statement of the Attorney-General, and to 4 ? eliarge• of the Learned Judge at the trial, he was at ti t a t ti od t4 : conceive on what ground the prisoners were ac ne assured the Right Hon. and Learned Gen eieluthaen,lth. at his (Lord Eliot's) Noble Friend at the head tha t Irish Government had felt the deepest pain on - tin , oeoasion, not only with respect to the death of the iiit'urtiinate man—melancholy as that occurrence was -11•Inialso as that occurrence indicated a continuance of ki i ,''' spirit of party warfare and bigotry which to! Government had hoped was rapidly beginning it i n stihs ide•—(Hear, hoar.) They also felt that . %J.. 'Led to shake that confidence in the power of Pr e .,,' 'to punish crime which it was so necessary should 4 .4 " /4 along all classes of the community. The Right oi e Gore and Learned Gentleman had done injustice to the `isi„ r , t olleat t. So anxious was his (Lord Eliot's) Noble tli - ,1 -11 ,° that ,the ends of justice should not be frustrated, ei"t - „ de had directed the principal law-officers of the tio t :: 4 to proet:ed to' Down to condutl the prosecu ill ! a i nd he ( T. or►l Eliot) believed that he was justified ( 34Yin"' thatth ' ai Learned 'Gentleman had on that i..e t ,, i ,. ts . w ere " displayed all the skill and knowledge whi . c i li th e . ieharaeteriatic of him. He entirely agreed with i ie t . :s .,,,,tght Hon. andLearnol Gentleman that such meet qiizein'te„rAe very reprehensible, He was not sufficiently . ac- Rkl ; 1 - 1 - ''' with the law .to know if such meetings were ille t - . th at t he,agreeil with the Right Hon. and Learned Gen to the e ' r ' i t Z ought not to be encouraged. With regar t c i l t ~ ) 111d , uttered in Court, he did not knowahleow wereie,y litte r "' Y€) been prevented. As soon as y L 'lrte - ,', 4 ,,,_• t i1e Judge interfered, and commanded . silence, tl e'en ';' )4cll he (Lord Eliot) declared the cries had not te l'eli e L, -e l'eated. He meant no disrespect either to the Partc", :l P''rofessed by the Right Hon. Member, or to , had j ul ,`• ° .` i hich he belonged, but he believed that what .the ti , t glnated the disturbance which had terminated in '' l !„ithi lt ; rtier of APArdle was a cry raised of " to hell keat f ic` ti g William." He (Lord Eliot) said this to show ~ It re were strong party feelings actuating both sides. ; Its n e -„, ' 4 a • - ''uNNELL said that the Noble Lord was right 114 3 ;1 1 2g that the cry had been raised by the Catholics. -4 2 4 t,i. -die-b ad- seized. the_ man who raised tlic i. cry, ...ut: - h im wit of the meeting. The worst of the wer'e 'natter was, that t6.e Orangemen in that part of Ireland Werejt" armed with heavy weapons, while the Catholics 4 (INV" ltt ed, though how long they would remain so, L r,- 'Connell" could not say. to another°l.°LlOT would take that opportunity of alluding thatthe 1, 1 6, Jury) which had been made, which was, aka b - was composed entirely of Protestants. It t o ha ee , n said that the law-officers of the Crown ought e (Loe4,l b jected to the composition of the Jury. He " ito t 'Lot) believed that the Jury had been impannelled 41m? ° . , t her cases, and the next of kin to the deceased Ivoi4 a h ue no such objection ; and what, he would ask, t2atliol.'lica74l3:e 'rei tt , ,„ a , v e been said in the south of Ireland, where the )t. of the people were Catholics, if a Jury (►. felt that as objected to on the score of ieligion? lie "inri o .e. • the next (if kin had made no ollection to the e nni ., itrion o f the jury, the law-officers of the Crown i t or l l °not with propriety do so. In conclusion, the Nob.° b eing g b l , 3 l E n ve .. (l that lie would not object to the returns thy, Mr, s i l e a; j u t H AW said, with -regard to the Constitution of 'Ple i ,,,, d ' e 7 ' he begged to observe, that the Counsel em atuil, • 3' the next of kin were gentlemen of Ole highest PEA r, at the Irish bar. Pett e k _, t ' ,C,GNNELL begged to say that he had not ityl ttreta the c omposition of the jury. lio n. r , l L 7 LIOT did not impute such a charge to the b een p7 ad en t ) --iriab, but an accusation of that nature had rile s i ., e ; , .. eos e a , ~ ' -e•PiteEl7 said that as the return was tinop ‘ ll aing d r Ea haPs the Hod. *ember would not press it as t eoti on -, a ent, but wouk t :tonsent to his putting the i t 4. , T t lie (the Spe a k e ) do leave the Chair. atld'briligeiTlNrwEarArLd would r withdi7tw the . a mendment, as a substantive I.7otwn. . r„ . ., , .R I:CHEWER-BILLS FRAC- ll ' .. n ' '14..11A to a question ut b Mr BLEWEI .i,. . that ' 4IC CELLO P y * th t e E xe ,_ It of the EXCHEQUER dated nequer-bills Fraud Bill would be read a second time this evening, but that the discussion upon the subject should be posponed until Thursday evening next. SUP PIAr::ARMY ESTIMATES. The House having resolved itself into a Committee of Supply, Sir HENRY HARDINGE rose to bring forward the Ariny Estimates. He said the total number of men for which he proposed to take the estimates this year, was 122,568 ; that number was composed of 5,808 officers, 8,674 non-commissioned officers, and 108,086. rank and file. Last year the numbers were 121,121, therefore as compared to the past year, there was now an addition of 1,447 ; the Canadian regiment which were 1,100, the St. Helena company 330 men, the augmentation to the 3d West India Regiment 330. There was a deduction of about 600 men from that, which would leave the number for the present year about 400 more than they were last year. The Royal Canadian regiment had been composed last year of ten companies, made up from the regiments then in Canada ' • the men volunteered, and every man of them had been 15 years in the service. There was to be an addition to the 3d West India regi ment. The Ist and. 2d West India regiments now consisted of 10 companies, and 1,000 men ; whereas the 3d regiment consisted only of 8 companies, which, were now to be raised to 10 companies, consisting of 1,000 men. Each of the three regiments were to contri bute to send a detachment to the western coast of Africa; and it was proposed for this reason, that the officers of these three corps should be augmented by two supernu meraries. But, as officers in that service were liable to have their health impaired, it was agreed, by the:Secre tary for the Colonies, the Commander-in-Chief, and the other authorities, that, after they had served a certain period, they should, on their return to this country, be allowed a year's furlough to enable them to recruit their health. It was proposed that two of those battalions—if that number were sufficient should be stationed in the Island of Jamaica. He had next to draw attention to the 20th page of the Estimates, in which was a memorandum, stating that it was intended to convert six depots into six second bat talions of the same strength as six service companies. 'rho force of the army was now 122,000 men, being 20,000 more than it was six years ago. Since 1830 the numbers had been - several times raised and reduced, thich proved the pliability of the system, while the number of officers remained the same. But the pressure on the troops of the line had been very severe during the last four years, and it was absolutely necessary that it should be removed. We had twenty-eight battalions in New South Wales, India, and China ; altogether we had seventy-eight battalions abroad, and only twenty five battalions at home—a force that could not possibly relieve the former to the extent the term of their ser-, vices required. Forty-two of those battalions were in tropical climates. At the time' of the insurrection we had but nine battalions in North America ; they were afterwards increased to nineteen, exclusive of some home-raised battalions. But in his plan of increasing each depot by making six of them consist of six service companies of 100 men each, these would answer to be sent to six healthy station; such as Gibraltar, Bermuda, and stations i n the Mediterra nean, where they would do the duty as well as second battalions, and enable the authorities ashore to relieve those regiments that had been left abroad too long. So then, instead of having 25 battalions ashore, we should have:3l, and, in the event of any sudden demand on the Government in other quarters, six battalions would be found ashore quite ready, The depots would be an ad ditional expense of 9,000/., the first year, but in future, it would be about 3,000/. a year. But to meet an expense of 63,0001. arising from some charges already adverted to, he proposed to reduce six men each from 50 other battalions not employed either in the East Indies or in North America. This would be a reduction of 3,000 men, and of 61,0001. The estimate for 95,600 men was 3,510,7741., being 70,8001. more than that of last year. The greater part of this expense would be on account of certain changes in the West Indies, but some would be on account of the St. Helena corps. On the 'hole, there would be an increase of about 120,000/, but there would be to meet this, a reduction of 49,000/., of which 33,000/. would be on account of provisions for the troops in Aus tralia and Canada, where the return to agriculture had cheapened food. There was a slight increase on the good conduct pension, the recipients being now 4,648 men ; but there were also 7,000 having mark, for good conduct who had also increased pay. The next vote was 20.0001. for libraries at home and abroad ; these libraries he stated had given the greatest satisfaction. The entire vote for the land force was, therefore, 3,581,5751. The Military College involved an expenditure of 17,000/. a year, but this did not fall on the public, as it was sustained by the friends of the ca dets who were sent there. A small expense, however, of 575/. had been incurred for some additional buildings that had been found necessary. Tne total vote for the effective service, therefore, including the school of the Military Asylum, and the expense of the volunteer carps, was 3,928,961/. The next votes related to the non-effec tive service, in which the item of the pay of general officers was 98,0001., an increase of 13,000/. occasioned by the pro motion. Pay for retired officers 66,000/.,being a decr,ase of 15,000/. ; for half-pay, 470,0001., being a decrease of 25 000/. 'Within the last twenty years the number of offic2.rs on the-half-pay list had considerably diminished, and there were now upwards of 3,000 on half-pay, a large proportion of whom would be no more fit for ser vice. The decrease in the number of officers, since the Peace, was 6,745, and the decrease in charge 618,030/. The foreign half-pay this year was estimated at 5ii,030/., bailie - 9 a decrease on last year of 2, 1 7 51 . The widows ' pension fund this year would require 141,000/ For pen sioners, at Chelsea and elsewhere, 1,251,1141., being a decrease of 7,492/. The decrease in the number of re gular pensions since the year 1829 was 17,0001., and the decrease in expenSe was 107,0001. 1000/. had been , taken for last year, in order to make another ar rangement for the number of the p:mrsioners. The grant they required for the superannuated list was 41,0001., being a decrease: of • 2,003/. The whole charge for the non-effective serviceiwas 264,000/, being 38,00(.1 li-ss than last year ; and the whole charge for the effective ser vice was 3,963,000/. The total grant required was 6,193,0001., being an increase on the grant of last year of 34,8291. He hardly knew whether any further explanation would he expected from him. With the best intention to carry on the military affairs of this nation with the strictest regard to economy, he trnsted the House would agree with him, that efficit.ncy was tee best economy. He hal now to move that the land forces be increased to 95,628 men. In the course of the present year a number of battalions would return to this country, so that by the end of the year the number of battalions here would be 32 in)tead of 25, as at present. Lord HOWICK, who spoke in an unusually low and indis tinct tone, said that he had no objection to the vote whic.. had just been put into the hands of the Speaker, and all that he would take the liberty of doing was to make a few observations on one or two points in the speech of the Right Honourable and Gallant Gentleman. With respect to the augmentation to be made in the West India regiments, he heard the statements of the Right Hon. and Gallant Officer with great pleasure. No person could doubt the policy of increasing those corps, and preventing thereby the great mortality that ensued among the men. He hoped the state of the barracks in the West Indies would be also improved. The Right Hon. Gentleman knew to what he alluded, and the frightful sufferings that ensue d from the state of the barracks. The Right Hon. and Gallant Officer had said that efficiency was in these things true economy. He (Lord H.) perfectly agreed with him, and he helieveil there was no greater extravagance than to allow British soldiers to remain for thirty-five years in such a climate as the West India Islands. The Noble Lord then referred to the proposed measure of the Gallant Officer (Sir H. Hardinge with regard to the advantage of an increase of six regiments, but in so low a tone that we could not catch the preci,e import of his opinion We understood him to say that lie thought the matter might be better left to the Executije, and that he did not agree to the arrangernents made with respect to the Colonels. He confessed that it appeared to him that the arrangement made by the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite was for the purpose of keeping up a system which he believed in prac• tics was liable to great inconvenience. Twe battalions were to be sent to certain healthy garrisons. Now he thought that all regiments ought to take their equal propertions of good . and bad climates. He thought that great relief would be given to the line, if, instead of the arrangement proposed by the Right lion. Gentleman, the one he p r oposed some time ago hid beat carried into effect. The Right Hon. Gentleman stated that-a number of libraries had already been esta blished, and also that the soldiers were ready to avail them selves of the opportunity of self-instruction thui offered to them. This was undoubtedly a subject of congratulation. Upon the whole he felt that the vote which the Right Rm. Gentleman demanded was one which, under the circtr ie s a t r. an ) ces, the House should have no hesitation in grant in g: — ( Lord ARTHUR LENNOX was glad the Right Hon. Gentleman had announced his intention of making an increase in the Army; and he only regretted that that increase was not larger. Looking to the state of our relations w ith Ch i na and India, and to the unfortunate feeling of jealousy which existed towards , this country—looking across the Atlantic, and to the frightful sources of misunderstanding: between the United States and this country, he was afraid they would not long enjoy the blessings of peace. He did not think either that the forces could now be relieved as often as was desirable. There was another subject to which he wished to allude, and one of the greatest importance to the Army—he meant the retiring pensions to the - soldiers. He did not think that, after 25 years' service, a miserable pittance of 6d. a day was a sufficient compensatipn for the labours and perils of such a service. He would call the attention of the Committee to the fact that these men were for the most part totally unable to obtain their own livelihood, being for the most part broken in constitution. For his own part, he should ever feel it his duty, as long as he had a seat in that House, to raise his humble voice in favour of the old soldiers in the army. There was one question which he wished to put to the Right Hon. and Gallant Officer opposite. It was with respect to the accoutrements to be supplied to the six depots. He wished to know what was to be done with those accoutrements when the depots were reduced. He would sug gest before he sat down, the prepriety of adding one penny a day to the pay of lance-corporals , and 3d. a day to that of lance serjeants, for their additional stripes. He thought that would be an admirable adjunct to the good conduct regulations. Mr. MACAULAY said the Hon. and Gallant Officer's estimate was so unexceptionable, that he would address the House as shortly as possible. He desired, however, to have some explanation with respect to the prorostul remunerati -n to six colonels of infantry. The report stated that 1,0001. a year was a sufficient allowance. He wished, therefore, to be informed why it was proposed to add 250/ a year in the case in question. With respect to the Canadian plan, he (Mr. Ma caulay) should say that there was a much better chance of suc cess by the proposed plan than if the Right Hon. Gentleman had half soldiers and half cultivators. He had scarcely anything further to say, except that he wished to a'k the Right Hon. Gentleman a question with respect to the Lunatic Asylum at Chatham, which was in a disgraceful state—in an absolutely shocking condition. It would also Le a great satisraction to know whether the Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir H. Ilardinge) had taken any means of reorganizing the Chelsea pensioners Sir HENRY HARDINGE said the subject of the Lunatic Asylum at Chatham had not escaped his notice ; and with respect to the Chelsea pensioners, he was sorry to say that the state of that Institution was such as to render an entire change of its constitution necessary as soo's as possible. He hoped that the number of men in the East Indies and North America would in a short time diminish under circumstances of more tranquil times. With regard to the hint thrown out by the Noble Lord oppo site (Lord Howick) as to his plan of depots, he (Sir Henry Ihirdinge) must observe, that he had seen the whole of the Noble Lord's arrangements, and he did not think that the Noble j,cird's dppt would be so effective as his (Sir H. liar dines) would, 'hg DPke of Wellington concurred in th,it opinion also. He (Sir H. Hardtop) was not aware that he had any further remark to m a k e on t h e s t a t emen t of i . % : fe Ole Lord, excepting one assertion of his respecting barracks in the West Indies, which the Noble Lord stated to be in a most disgraceful state. When, in 1840, Lord Vivian was Master-General of the Ord nance, a motion had been made for the production of papers on this subject,:he (Sir H. Hardinge) asked whether there was any foundation for the disgraceful state hi which the barracks in the West Indies were described to be. The Master-General assured the House that the barracks in the West Indies were in an admirable state. In the following year (1841) the Master-General was placed in the Upper House, and he thought the Noble Lord ought to have avoided such a remark in Lord Vi7ian's absence. All the reports he had heard of these bar raeks gave a description of them diametrically the - reverse of that of the Noble Lord. In reply to the observations of the Noble Lord (A. Lennox) behind him, he stated that the batta lions would be disposed of and managed, as regarded their accoutrements, as heretofore. Lord JOHN RUSSELL remarked, with respect to the plan of depots, that the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman ap peared totally to have abandoned the plan of depot companies. He gave up the advantage of a certain number of places at home where recrui's might be received, and a certain propor tion of officers retained. He did not wish to enter into any controversy as to the plan of the Hon. and Gallant Member, who was fully competent to consider a question of this kind; his long experience in military affairs, and in the civil direction of matters of this nature, fully entitled him to great con sideration when he brought forward a plan which he thought best under present circumstances. Considering the last explanation made by the Right Honourable Gen tleman, and the circumstances of the case, he thought the present plan was most wise. If a general plan en general grounds were proposed, he might alter his views, but in the present instance he did not wish to say he had a different opinion from the Right Hon. and Gallant Officer. He was glad to hear that there were to be only two battalions in Jamaica, and that there was to be a p.trmanent barracks. No thing, in his opinion, was more advantageous than that the troops in the West Indies should be placed in as healthy situa tions as were consistent with the defence of those islands. Some correspondence had taken place between the Ordnance Department and the Secretary of State with respect to the barracks in Barbadoes ; but he would allude to the stipject when the Ordnance Estimates came before the House. Sir H. HARDINGE defended the system of depots he proposed, and adduced the authority of the Duke of Welling ton, who assigned, as one of his reasons, that in case of emer gency they could be raised into battalions. Lord HOWICK considered the present system was, as far as the West Indies were concerned, an abandonment of the depot system. Mr. WILLIAMS asked the Secretary at War if the ex penses attending the army in China were included in the Es timates? Sir HENRY HARDINGE said that no part of the ex penses of the Chinese Expedition was included in the Esti mat,s. The expenses of that expedition would Nava LI be settled between the East India Company and the Government, and would be provided for under the bead of Army Extraor dinaries. Mr. VILLIAMS was not surprised at the agreement in opinion between the present and the late Secretary at War and the Noble Lord the Member for London, seeing that there was no great difference between the Army Estimates this year and the last. He thought the expenses of the army in China ought to have been included in these estimates. He protested against the plan of voting these estimates before they had considered the ways and means, and thought it would have been a pre ferable plan for the Right Hon. Baronet, at the head of the Government, to have matte his financial statement before these estimates had been voted. The great charge against the late Government was that they had expended a much larger sum than the amount of the revenue. It was true that Government had done so, and the late Chancellor of the Exchequer had proposed an addition of 10 per cent. to the taxation, to make good the deficiency. What was the result? Why, it was found that the people would pay no more taxes, and the consequence was that instead of realising two mallet - is and a half. there was a considerable falling off of the revenue after these taxes were added. He thought the House ought to kow how those monies were to be raised. The revenue was short last year, and all the votes required were larger than in the previous year. The fore s this year were larger than they had been any year since 1817 ; now such being the case, he should like to know what there was in the present position of the country to require a larger military force than was required during 'the last twenty-four years? The Hon. Gentleman oppasite bad spoken of the re lations of this country with America and France. Now, for his own part, he saw nothing in those relations, if properly managed, that was calculated to lead to hostilities. In 1522 the number of the military force was 30,000 less than that proposed for the present year. There was nothing, in his opinion, to warrant the large increase in the army in the pre- Ant year, as compared with other periods. He should, there fore, propose that the number of men for the home service should be reduced by 11,000, so that the estimates under this head should be placed on the same footing as in the year 1837. If any of the timber of men proposed for he home service were destined for the war in China, he might not now have proposed such a reduction ; but he hail distinctly understood that such was not the intention of the Right Hon. Gentleman.—(" No, no.") Ile understood tha such was the case. He submitted, however, that as we hat' unfortunately entered into the Chinese war it should be carried on with vigour, as the most likely means to bring it to a speedy termination. Now, after 21 years, t- e amount of half-pay was nearly the same. At the former period, it was 2,264,1341 , now it was but 5,000!. less he meant for the retired allowances al together. The officers on effecctive service were 5,808; there e ere 385 retired on full pay ; 504 foreign officers, exclusive of those the number of officers on half-pay was 5,118 ; what ne ce.sity was there for so large a number on half-pay? The nutre her of Captains on full-pay was 1,347 ;on half-pay 1,1 - 87 ;of lieutenants on full-pay, 1866; on half-pay 1461, of whom he was sure a large number would be very glad to be put on ful' service; but they had no parliamentary influence to get them on.—(" Oh.") He knew, this was the reason.—(" Oh.") He thought the number of general officers too large, and there had Ist •ly been a promotion. There were 452 general officers, ;hat was b.ur general officers to every regiment of the line ; ha should l,ke to knew what necessity there was for this nuns tier. The Army of the United States consisted only of 12,000 men, but they had only three officers. He thought the allow ance for pene.ens, and allowances to widows was very large. I t appeared that there were 2,950 widows receiving p nsions; ehether they were bestowed on representations made of some services performed by the deceased officer, or whether granted to the widow of every officer of a certain rank, he did not know, and should like to be informed. The sum granted for pension eas 371,00 e/. ; it of course held out an excellent op portunity for old military gentlemen to get young wives, but it was very hard for the country to be called upon to pay such a sum as this. It might be unpleasant to the many military geneemen in the House, to hear such remarks, but in the pre_ s, ut dilapidated state of the finances, he thought it his duty to state them. The whole amount of the half-pay was 2,264,0001. and there was a deficiency in the revenue of nearly three millions; how it was to be raised he knew not. There trigEt be a great reduc'ion in this branch without injury to the public service. In the French army there was no such thing, and the consequence was, that officers of high rank were obliged to turn their attention to other means of support. The three regiments of Horse Guards, commonly called House hold Troops, consisted of 1,308 men, and they cost the country 85,000/. The pay of these three regiments was 24,100/. more than the pay of any three regiments of cavalry, consisting of an equal number of men. The three regimenta of Goot Guards consisted of 5,287 men, and they received 39,5181 a-year. being 16,918/. more than was received by any three , regiments of the line, consisting of an equal number of men. He could see no reason why the regi ments of Hoge and Foot Guards should be better paid than other cavalry and infantry regiments, for their duties, so far from bring more onerous, were much lighter than Those de volving on regiments of the line. He should, therefore, mov, that the second vote in the estimates be reduced by 16.918/., being the amount of the difference between the pay of the re giments of the guards and the cavalry and regiments of the line. With regard to the Horse Guards, ke believed they did not servo except in Belgium:—(Cries of " Spain.") - Thet was before.—(Laughter.) At all events, the regiments of the line were moved about, and th e s fficers of those regiments were sub ject, in consequence, to great additional expense. The pay of - Colonels in the Horse Gaurds was 1,8001. a-year, while the pay of Colonels of regiments of the line was only 9001 Colonels of the Foot Guarcs had 1,200/., while Colonels of infantry regi- - ments of the line had only 6001., and there were 35 with only 500/. The disproportion between Lieutenant-Colonels was also great. The pay of the soldiers of the Horse Guards was s. 11 1 ,y, that of regiments of the line Is. 3d. ; the pay of the Foot Guards is ls. Id., that of the regiments of the line Is. But the cost in the maintenance was equally disproportionate. The cost , for the Horse Guard is 68/., whielrie-21/. more than was staid to the cavalry soldier in the regiments of the line. There was another vote to which he had decided objection, and with respect to which he should divide the House, he al luded to the charge for the Yeomanry Cavalry ; he could see no necessity for that, and therefore he should vote against it. He wished to know whether any part of the 95,000 men were in tended for China, because if they were not, he should move that 11,000 should be str uc k o ff 'th e propose d num b er . Sir H. DOUGLAS was not at all surprised at the mild tone taken by Hon. Gentlemen opposite, because he was sure they must be sen s ibl e th a t th e course elected by his Right Hon. and. Gallant Friend to meet the present exigencies, ought to have been adapted len&ago, by those who were at the time in, power. Such a course o ug ht to haile beeri pursued at the sCtrheinngetshe o w f • a r t , h e a n ß d r i h ti e s o a u r m l d y s h a a y d that e f r o b r e i e n n a ns such tithe of the reb e lli on i n C ana d a. H e would now come to the h ea a l s 's to pa e s n t ab to le e the Commanders to perform the services required of them, and the force now was totally inefficient. With regard to the war in Affehanistan,he was of opinion that it was the insufficiency of forces which compelled the military officers there to act in such a manner as they would not otherwise have done ; and he charged those who did not then increase the forces, that they had forced officers who knew their duty, and who knew it well, to deviate from the rules of warfare, and to (lb that which they knew not to be safe. He therefore congratulated the Secretary of War for what he had now done ; but he (Sir 11. Douglas) thought that the measures now proposed should have been taken long before. He should make no more obser vations on this point. He should now touch on what had been said relative to the means of improving the character and comfort of the British soldiers ; and here he must congratulate the Hon. Member for Sunderland, the late Secretary of War, inasmuch as not one request which he (Sir H. D.) had made, to that Noble Lord relative to the improvement of the soldier was neglected by him. When he (Sir H. D. ) was Governor- General of the lonian Islands, there was only one chaplain in the whole force, and he had seen soldiers dying in the hos pitalspraying in vain for spiritual relief. He had represented this to that Noble Lord, who had added another chaplain to the service ; he then asked for four Roman - Catholic Chaplains, and the Noble Lord sent them three. He (Sir H. D.) was of opinion that means ought to be taken to icstruct the soldier. He had always observed that the man who took to his books made the better soldier. He was also of • opinion that some system should be introduced and established in every regiment to enable the soldier to save his money. He had introduced a savings' bank in his own regiment (the 52d Light Infantry), and in a very shot t time there was 500/. deposited in it. The Regiment, however, was soon after broken up, and that money was returned to the soldiers e but he regretted to say that many irregularities were the consequence of the money being returned, and in some instances he was sorry to say that Courts-Martial had to be held. He was sure that the Hon. and Gallant Member for Marslebone, who so eloquently depicted last evening the effects of the want of a full complement in his service, would feel the necessity of a full complement in the army. But he did not think that if a French fleet had come upon the Eng lish fleet, they (the English fleet) would have been beaten, He thought the Hon. Member's practice would go against his words, and that the gallant men on board the Powerful would not have given way before a French fleet. Sir C. NAPIER said he did not wish it to go forth to the country, or to be generally understood that the British navy would not have done their duty, and have done it well, if they got into action with the enemy ; kut he did maintain, and he would tell the House and the country, that he conscientiously believed that if the British navy had co me into contact with the French after they Lad begun their opera , ions in Syria and got sickly, though they would have done their duty to the utmost of their power, they would have been beaten. —e Hear.) Hon. Gentlemen should not attempt to depreciate their enemies. He would re mind the House of what took place in America. when they held the Americans in contempt, and sent iver an ill- manned navy (they had a civilian for the First Lord of the Admiralty then) and the British flag was tarnished. Sir THOMAS TROUBRIDGE ;said he could not concur in the or s Men that if the British sleet had been Attacked in THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, MARCH 8, 1842.1 the Mediterranean it would have been defeated. There were at that time 750 supernumerary marines at the disposal of that fleet, who could have been put on board those ships if required, and he (Sir Thomas Trowbridge) confidently stated that the result of any action with the French fleet would be very diffe • rent from what had been state.d.ll3s_the, Hon. and • Gallant Gen tleman. He thought his Gallant Friend's ideas were quite extraordinary, and he must say that he had been much aston ished to hear so many Naval Officers speaking in such a way as not to uphold bet altoeather depreciate the character of the British Navy. Oct another occasion he should speak more at length on this subject. Sir C. NAPIER wished to e xp l a i n. Th ere never wer e 750 marines at their disposal. Ther e were 250 mar i nes, b u t that did not supply the deficiency, kr they w ere 100 men s hort, and had 134 sick. The Gallant Officer s th ere did not k now w h a t it was to be beaten. He did.—(Lau g ht er. ) Il e was b ea t en o nce by the French fleet, when he was under-manned. He was beaten; his mainmast knocked down; and if the French had stunk to him, he should not h ave b een there now. Captain I:AYARD wished to know if it was the inten tion of the Government to niake any alterations as to the time when soldiers might obtain a free discharge. He had been informed that at present, after having served ten years, a cavalry soldier could obtain his discharge by paying 2!1., and an infantry soldier by the peyment of 15/. After 12 years' ser vice, a cavalry soldier must pay 15/., and an infantry'soldier 101. for his discharge. After 14 years' service, a cavalry soldier must pay 19/. and an infantry soldier Si. After 15 years' ser vice the cavalry soldier must pay 6/. and the infantry soldier gets a free discharge. He (Capt. Layard) believed it would add to the benefit of the service, if, after 10 years, an in. fantry soldier might claim a free discharge. He believed that, considering the position of the country at present, that it was absolutely necessary that there should be more men. If anything should occur in India, our forces would, no doubt, be attacked by the Burmese, and the probability was we should be defeated. Sir H. HARDINGE said tlie improvements which were proposed would have the mo.t beneficial effect upon the army. Many fathers of families, who had formerly prevented their sons from entering the army, were now infinitely more inclined to let their sous enlist. With regard to the pensioners it was a very difficult question. He had already frequently expre.sed his sentiments in that House and elsewhere upon that subject. They were reduced 17,000/. since 1829, ye t th e q ues ti on in volved so many grave and serious considerations, and more par ticularly considering the state of the finances of the country, the question deserved the most serious attention of Govern ment.--( Hear, hear.) In 1829 when he first formed his war rant it was submitted to the then Government with the Duke of Wellington at its head, and they gave their concurrence to that plan ; with regard to the amendment of the Hon. Mem ber for Coventry, he (Sir H. Hardinge) hoped he would not press it to a division. With regard to the pensions of half-pay officers, there was a very large reduction. Out of 17,426, nearly one-third had died, the diminution in the public ex penses was 618,9001. He could go through the estimate, giving an account in detail, but it would really occupy the time of the Committee too much, if he were to attempt to answer every question of the Hon. Gentleman. There were no less than 6,745 officers who bad died off the half-pay list, and he hoped that would satisfy the appetite—( A laugh )—uf the Hon. Gentlemat: opposite (Mr. Williams). he present number of troo:s are not kept in this country merely to keep down disturbance, but it was proposed to increase them on ac • ceunt of the pressure which was so great upon them abroad. That pr:ssure was so great, that many regiments had been fifteen and twenty years in India. Wa s th a t a fit or a proper state of things?— (l-tear, hear.) It was to relieve that pressure that the increase of troops was proposed; it was absolutely re quested both for the efficiency of the service and to secure to •he troops that humane and generous support which they ought to receive.—( Hear. ) Viscount HOWICK, who spoke in a very inaudible tone of voice, was understood to say that this question should be con sidred with reference to the finances of the country. He was , ejoiced to see that the Right Hon. and Gallant Officer was now satisfied with the effect of the warrant of 1833. The con cluding ob ervations of the Noble Viscount were inaudible in the Gallery. Sir H. HARDINGE said the Noble Viscount must have misconceived what he stated; as to pensions ; his opinions had undergone no change. When he brought the subject under the consideration of the Government of that day, they had ap proved of his (Sir IL Hardinge's) plan. However he was satisfied that a great modification must take place even in the existing warrant, and he still reaerated the opinion, that the warrant proposed by Sir J. Cam Hobhouse was very moderate. Lord J. RUSSELL said that when the Right Honour able Gentleman stated that Sir J. Cam flobhouse's warrant was insufficient, it was to be hoped he (Sir H. Hardinge) would not fall into the error of falling back upon the former warrant, and giving soldiers retiring pay whose conduct slid not entitle them to it ; he (Lord J. Russell) had received let 'era from several Colonels in the army, complaining that men who had conducted themselves in an improper manner were intitled to, and had received pensions, just as well as if they had been persons of good conduct. Mr. WILLIAMS did not understand what .the Right lion. Gentleman (Sir El. Hartlinge).meant by expressing a hope that the death of so many half-pay effie, rs should satisfy his (Mr. Williams's) appetite.—(Laughter.) Ile did not know what that meant, but he supposed it was a military tern,— ( Laughter '—how ever, he was sent there by his constituency, and when he saw the state of distress and des.itution in which the country was placed, he did not think that the Army should be exempted from duties which they had formerly performed ; he objected to all further taxation, and he had also to state that he was not at al sat stied with explanation which the Right Hon. Gentleman had given with regard to officers on half -pay. Ile had met many of those gentlemen in all ranks and stations of society, and he knew that many of them mere most anxious to serve— their health and constitution enabled them to t'o so; but he (Mr. Williams) dared say that in consequence of the number of applications for ensigncies, that were from time to time made to Hon. Gentlemen who had'the disposal of these situations, it might have been deemed expedient not to call upon the services of retired officers ; however, these were the things which in creased the tublic expenditure.—( Hear,. hear.) Still after the statement of the Right Hon Gentleman cpposite, that such a large force. was absolutely required for the public service, he (Mr. Williams)', would not feel himself justified in proposing ar.y amendment, and he would ther fore withdraw his motion.—( Hear.)) The motion was then wiqidrawn. Mr. O'CONNELL. wished to make one observation in re ference to the Canada question. He had lately, upon more oc casions than one, the necessity of calling , the attention of the House to the party spirit, of ; a very. violent description, which existed among the Militia corps in Canada. Now there was nothing more remarkable among the soldiery of this country than their total abstinence from all party spirit. In Ireland and other places, whenever the military happened to be called upon, they never up on any occa.sion whatever evinced the least prejudice or party feeling ; it was not so in Canada or amongst the local soldiery there. Now, if it was .ritended to raise the corps in ufficiently guarded against. C t a h n e a d r a , e e t r l l u a i t ti n e a v i is w not l d t o n be ot b i e Sir H. H ARDINGE—Th e men are British soldie .. s. Mr. O'CONNELL—Th en Canada ? 0 bj o e icititobnesvhoetesvbaesi nagbopurtotpoesmake that e 3 re ,5 7 1 7 5 0 7 v 5 e i d . . be Sir H. HARDINGE —No. Mr. O'CONNELL t h en stated, since that was the case, the the expenses of h er M ajesty's land forces for the ensuing year, Mr. WILLIAMS moved an amendment that that sum be reduced by 63,918/.. on account of the extra pay given to her taken Majesty's Horse a n d Li fe Guards. granted for Sir 11. HARDINGE said before the Hon. Gentleman per sisted in dividing the H ouse upon his amendment, he ought to be as are that for th e l ast twenty-tive years that question had been considered as det erm i ned both in Parliament and in Com mittee, i e t t wholee , ri d i t also had by th o' e wh o o were that be Guards been tormA their dutie s i n London in a most efficient manner. The residence of a s o ldi er i n London the the Liberal had a i par t y.wa,alw a ys p On was much more expensive than country quarters. In fact, it was well known and ad mitted that the office's of the Guards had given their services to the country almost for nothing.—( Hear, hear.) In the field, as well as for their s ubordinatio n to the civil authorities of the country, and the admirable manner iu which they invariably conducted themselves, there was no body of men more die. tinguished than her Majesty's Guards—( Hear, hear)—nor better adapteelto the -performance of their - duties. Under such circumstances he hope.] the Hon. Gentleman would not press his amendment to a division. Colonel RAWDON said he would walk out of the House if the Honourable Member for Coventry pressed his motion to a division. With regard to the addition to the expenses upon the country, which had been alluded to, he should state that the difference between an ensign's pay and the, pay of an officer of the same rant in the Guards was only three-peace a day ; when the Committee remembered that an officer in the Guards was obliged to live in London at great expense, in his own lodgings, having not the benefit of mess—having not the benefits of barracks, or fuel, or light, or any of those other ad. vantages which were afforded to officers of th- Line, he was sure the Hon. Member for Coventry must see that three-pence a day for an officer of the Guards beyond the pay of an officer of the Line was very insufficient—( Bear, hear. ) He believed that the difference between the pay of a Lieuten ant of the Line end one of the Guards was 10(1. per day. The higher the rank of each officer, of course the larger his pay and the greater the difference. It must be notorious to every one that in London . ' tlie•eipens , s of an officer were much greater than in other places, and the ay of those quartered there ought accordingly to be higher. However, of course it was for the House to decide the. question. Colonel 11031 AS WOOD said that whatever might be the advantages which the Household troops possessed, they well earned them. It was not for him to draw any comparisons be tween the various branches of her Majesty's troops ; bat he must say that the Household troops were as good and as efficient as any branch of the troops in her Majesty's service. Air. WIL LIAAIS had only referred to the difTzrenee between the pay of the officers of the Line and of those of the Guards. He had not raissd any question whether they were paid too much or too little, nor had he made any observation relative to the conduct of the Guards. However, he was not aware that the Household troops were in any degree superior to those of the Line, and he should divide the Committee on the vote. Captain BERKELEY requested the Hon, Gentleman net to press his amendment to a division. If he did so, he (Capt. B.) should vote against him. fhe Committee divided, when there appeared— For the motion 144 For the amendment . .............. .' l2 Majority... —l32 The vote was then agreed to. • The following votes w ere then agreed t 0;"... 166 922/. for defraying the charges and expenses of general staff officers. 82,467/. 'a llowance for the principal publics o ffi cers of the Military Department. 5301. for repairing . the damages done to tbe as•i! t ___ _ Collet; slit ary i May, 1841 ; and .' by the thunder-stormt_ 1 5,0901 . fur defray )Rl Military sof the oa Asylum and the fiber. by the expense clan Military Schools. • 458/. be granted t o her Majesty On the vote that 82, for de fraying of t h e Vo lunteer Corps being p ut, the charges , said that he would take Committee on t hat Mr, vote. It . Hume wer e i n t h e H ouse, he would have presse d the motion to a di v i sion. The Committee then div ided, and the numbers wet e-- For the ritant .................... .... ..., 1 33 - Against it . ................. ............. ... 17 Majority for t he g ran. .............. 116 The vote was then agreed to. The fullowing votes were then put,fa, acuedrsa:frehea:rtomwa Majesty's and reduced of retired officers of I.ffireeedderuose.ed allowances of the discussion 47:2for:0co.., : f..fo — orfrot trhbetehpefauyl half-payio.. fpagyeno efarnaarndel for the pensions and allowances to land forcer. land forces. o fl 1 5 0 c 8 e n ' r 4 s 3 ti o: of the .tyhtfe: for oortfe_hiegl4nhi half-pay He was . more pat titularly induced to u m t g e n t a h n a ts t s , a n d elli o a ffi rn cer t s he of low rank. For instance, r i ne. ip le Gallant o nO which ffice ' r w - t • o h — u v l s . .1: the widows of office's, a great number of the Mr. WILLIAMS said, p!rhaps the p pensionshr e a e v i have :e n no t s granted.l,. widows o t w o s e o x f el vim or after they had ask thin 245 of ensigns and ew e q re uei 4 o ti widows from o o b f se l r ie v comets. He wished to know whether they were the widows of retired. • Sir H. HARDINGE stated unless he officer had retired on officers who had died in actual half-pay, fo:. wounds or infirmities contracted in the service, the widow was not entitled to a pension; or if he retired after twenty years service, then the widow was also entitled. The case the Hon. Member had alluded to, of an old officer mar rying, and thus entailing a heavy expense on the ccuntry, was barred by the regulation that if an officer married after the age of sixty, his widow was not entitled to a pension. Mr. CURTEISIad been watching for the entrance of an Honourable Gentleman opposite, but as he was not in his place, he must throw himself on the courtesy of the House, as he wished to state a fact relative to the character of a gentleman. Sir 11. HARDING E intimated to the Hon. Gentleman that the Navy Estimates would come on during the evening, when he would have the opportunity of making his statement. Mr CURTEIS acceded to the proposition. The following grants were then severally agreed to : 120,500/. for the in-rease of allowances consequent on the p•om)tien. 1,231,414/ for defraying the charges of Chelsea and Kilmain ham Hospitals. 41,0001. for allowances and compensations in the nature of superannuations, and retired allowances to persons formerly be longing to the 061 establishments of the army. Mt. WILLIAMS could not help being struck with the large sum sot down to the retired clerks. Sir 11. II ARDINGE stated that they were a most deserving class of men, and mentioned the case of Mr. M oore , t h e brother 6 of Sir J. Moore, who, because he was obliged to reside abroad, voluntarily and from patriotic motives, resigned a pension of 8001. per annum. The vote was then agreed to. THE NAVY ESTIMATES. On the mo.ion that a sum not exceeding 2,980/. be granted to her Majesty to defray the expenses of the office for the re. gister of merchant seamen, Mr. CURTEIS said he would not trouble the House at any greater length than he could avoid, but considering the cha racter of young man of importance, and having travelled sixty miles for the purpose of vindicating it, he trusted that the House would grant him a patient hearing. The speech of the Gallant Captain opposite (Captain Rous) as reported in the Morning Chronicle in reference to Mr. Elton, was grossly incJrrect. In the first place he differed very materially from the Gsliant Captain, the Member for Westminster, when he stated that the Admiralty had not supported the discipline of the Navy by remitting the remaining portion of the sentence. He believed that he spoke the sentiments of society generally, and the world at large, when he declared that it was their conviction that the sentence originally passed upon Mr. Elton was an unnecessarily severe one, and that the Admiralty had exercised a sound and judicious discretion in extending their clemency to that gentleman. He was at issue with the Gallant Officers of the Navy, as to the want of etiquette displayed by a Midshipman, in requesting a favour, nut from a commanding officer, but from a surior officer in the Navy. The application was made by a Midshipman to a gentleman, who had very recently been made a Captain, and who had served as Lieutenant in a ship in which Mr. Elton was Midshipman. It was an application, not as the Gallant Captain had stated, that he would grant a boat to a gentleman who was travelling on the coast of Syria, but that he would allow a boat, after conveying Captain Williams to his own ship, to proceed from thence to the coast of Syria, which would have occupied twenty minutes additional time. No answer was returned to the application, although it was proved to be not an unreasonable one, by the fact that one of the Lieutenants of the ship, viva voce, made the same request to•C;aptain Williams, and was refused. He was not surprized that Midshipmen of the Navy should draw figures of slaves, when such servile marks of distinction were kept up be tween the Captains of the Navy and those who were under their command. He begged to say that those Midshipmen had the same feelings as their superior officers; that, generally speaking, they were their equals in birth and station, and that there ought not therefore to be such a distinction between them that a young officer, a Midshipman, might not in the most polite terms make such a request as had been made in this case. The favour requested was of the most trivial description ; had he (Mr. Curteis) been a traveller in that part of the world, he would have thought it ungenerous and most unkind of any Captain in the Navy to deny to him so slight a favour. Not only in his (Mr. Curteis) view of the mat ter had he erred greatly, ,in refusing to extend so small a favour to a brother officer. Previous to this affair he had not known either of the parties concerned. Having seen Mr. Elton since, and thinking his case one of hardship, he had taken up the ma ter upon public grounds. He now came to a point in which he did not hesitate to say that Ma Elton was in the wrong. He (Mr. Curteis) did not stand there to defend that letter which, in a moment of impatience an 4 anger, lie wrote to Cap tain Williams; he hesitated not to sty that for that impru dent letter, he deserved dismissal from the service. But it should be recollected that he afterwards took the very first op portunity of offering an apology. What was the demand of Cap tain Williams ? Ile demanded not only an opology for that letter but also an apology fur the original letter, requesting that he would confer u„on Mr. Elton the favour of allowing Iris friend to be taken from the vessel to the shore. New, that an apology was necessary, and ought to have been promptly given for the seeond letter, there could be no manner of doubt ; but it war not equally clear that an apology was required for the first. Mr. Elton was afterwards brought to a court-martial, and be was bold to say, in the face of that Mils a and of the world, not indeed that they were culpable irregularities, but that there were some very unusual circum stances attending thecourt-atartial. Ile believed that he stated an undeniable fact, when he asserted that one of the officers who eat as the judges upon that occasion, was called upon to give his testimony as a witness , and he had the authority of officers of both profes :La's, that it was a most unusual circumstance for an Officer presiding as a Judge to be called as a witness. It .was indeed true that he was called also for the defence, and that the evidence on the one side might be weighed against that oa the other; but for the defence, or for the charge, he believed that thero was great irregularity in the pro ceeding. But ho believed further, that in the eyes of the world it did seem extraordinary that a per son should be first dismissed from her Majesty's ser vice, anti then, when he no longer belonged to that service, for almost an inlefintte time, the sentence was that he should be imprisoned, but that his imprisonment should not commence until after he had arrived in England. The consequt nee was that this young man was treated as a prisoner for several months before his imprisonment, in the Mat shalsea commenced. And he contended that it was but an act of justice on the part of the Admiralty to take that fact into consideration. Magistrates at Quarter Sessions, and Judges at Assize, were in the constant habit of taking into account the confinement which had been suffered be fore a prisoner was brought to trial. The Gallant Cap tain had asserted that that portion of the imprisonment, could not properly form a portion of the sentence. That cer tainly was a very extraordinary assertion. The Gallant Cap tain, the Member for Westminster, had asserted that the additional imprisonment was caused by the circumstance that the comrades of this Gallant Midshipman—not only in his own ship bat throughout the fleet—had intended to give him a triumphal dinner, that was to say, they meant to give him a farewell dinner. Was that any ground for this ad ditional imprisonment ? He saw the Gallant Captain shake his head, but he appealed from the Gallant Captain to the Gallant Admiral. Which of these authorities was he to believe? Un doubtedly on that occasion he was rather taking the Admiralty under his shelter. —( Great laughter.) He entirely approved of their conduct —he thought they showed themselves to be men of feeling and discretion. In their conduat, in reference to this matter, they exercised a pro per discretion, and showed that they would not allow them selves to be misled by others. 'that was his (Mr. Curteis') , opinion of their conduct, and he felt sure that that opinion was re-echoed without those walls. He new came to another point. He believed that the Adraitalty would have remitted the sentence on the young man's return to this country had he ' he not, with a fatality which certainly seemed extraordinary, brought himself again into a scrape—( Laughter). 'What he IIOW complained of in the Gallant Captain opposite was, not that he had asserted that Mr Elton gave the lie to the Comman der of the ship in which he was placed, but as he had told him in r:vate that he had forgot to state any of the extenuating cir cumstances. To show that he had not taken up the case on frivolous grounds, ho would read to the House a document which he considered to be of some importance. In a visit which he had paid to Mr. Elton in the Marshalsea, hu had shown him this document, and had called upon him as a gentleman to examine it and state whether or not it was correct in every particular. Mr. Elton having complied stated that it was so. Even after this, fearing that he should cave read it inattentively, he had in the presence of two other gentlemen, repeated his request, begging him again to read it deliberately, and inform him whether or not, it was accurate in every particular. The only mistake which he mentioned was the use of the word "bailiff," which (as we understood the Right Hon. Member) ought, according to the phraseology of the Admiralty, to have been " mes senger.' On his asking him whether the statement was cx augerated, his reply was—" Quite the contrary."—( Hear. ) fie did not mean to defend his conduct to Capt. Lawrence, but it was not the fact that his conduct was unprovoked, as stated by the Gallant Captain. The latter, he held, was, he believed, correct in every particular. It stated, " that it appeared very extraordinary that, after having made an unreserved apo logy, he should be treated as he had been; that he had been taken by the Hercules to Malta, where he remained far five weeks confined in the cock pit, where no officer was allowed to speak to him. He had been sent on board the Prometheus to Gibraltar"—on board which, he may be al lowed to say in passing, that he had been treated with the greatest courtesy by the Commander—" and from the Pro metheus he was transferred to the Hastings, where he was again put into close confinement in the cockpit, where no person was allowed to speak to speak to him except the servants who brought him food ; that he was not allowed either wine or spirits, but that some of those restrictions were removed when he arrived at St. flel,n's ; that be was then taken from the Hastings, and brought from thence between two men, like a common felon, in a second-class carriage to London, by the Southampton Railway." It was harsh treatment towards a person in the position of a gentleman, and whise family were highly respect able, to be taken in this manner—the gaze of everybody—and lodged in the Marshalsea. That he considered to be very hard treatment to a person of 19 years of age, the son of Sir A. Elton, who, he perceived by the papers, had lately died. " After his arrival ir. England, he was given to understand that his punishment would be forgiven, but that, in conse quence of his conduct to Capt. Lawrence, he was informed the sentence would be carried into effect." He now came to show the provocation which Mr. Elton had received to account for his conduct to Capt. Lawrence, and he contended that he was not at the time amenable to martial law. An Hort. MEILBE it—He had no right then to be in uniform. Mr. CURTEIS—Why was ho allowed to be in uniform ? ( Hear, hear.) But the statement went on to say, " that Mr. Elton was walking on the quarter-deck, and was talking to the Mate of the ship, when Captain Lawrence rushed from the cabin and upbraided the Mate for daring to talk with a person who was disgraced, and who disgraced the service; and turning to Mr. Elton, he said, ' flow dare you speak to one of my , fficers ; you are a disgrace to the service?' Upon which he unfortunate young man, being goaded to desperation by he appearance of unceasing persecution towards him, and under the impression that he was no longer in the Navy, told Captain Lawrence that he was a liar, but that he afterwards sent an apology." lie (Mr. C.) differed from the Gam*. Admiral, who stated the other evening that the apology w sent after Mr. Elton had been in thellarshalsea ; but the fact w. , s that it bad been sent before. - He thought he had made out a sufficient case to show that Mr. Elton had received grea provocation, and he believed if he had struck Captain Lawrence he would have been amenable not to martial law but to the civil law. He wished it to be understood that Captain Law rence had exerted himself to get Mr. Elton 's sentence remitted. He believed what the Gallant Admiral had stated the other night was correct ; and, there • fore he did not wish to impute anything to Captain Williams except that he was the o-iginal cause of the whole affair, and, at all events had not treated Mr. Reid, the tra veller with the courtesy which he might have expected. IL! 'believed that Mr. Elton deserved dismissal from the service, but he did not think that he ought to receive additional punish ment, because a dinner was about to be given hint. He did accuse Captain Lawrence of being in a passion, and forgetting himself, when he used the expressions he did to wards Mr. Elton, but of more than that he did not ac cuse him. Neither had he any charge to bring against Capt. Williams, and all he was anxious for was that im partial justice should be done to all parties—( Hear. He perceived that the Gallant Officer below him was ready to bring down upon him the force of the " Thunderer."— ( Laughter.) lie informed the Gallant Captain that it was his intention to bring the subject forward, who told him that it was a pity the subject should be again mooted.—(Cheers.) He thought it no undue course to pursue to follow up the matter .as he was doing, for he did not bring ary charges against any person. The Gallant Captain had informed him . that when Mr. Elton was under his command he could have dismisse d him [entirely from the service, and so far disgraced him, but he believed the only cause he would have for doing so was that he exceeded his leave of absence ten or twelve days, and he must say that if the Gallant Captain through kindness of heart did not follow it. up, Mr. Elton was under deep obli gation to him. But still it did not appear to him that the charge was of much importance. Ile believed in what he had stated that he had not saida single tittle which was not borne out in fact ; and if he were deceived, no person could feel more indignant than he (Mr. Curteis). In conclusion, he would only say, as he had begun, that he entirely approved of the conduct of the Admiralty in remitting Mr. Elton's punishment. Captain BERKELEY said that the Honourable Gen tleman who , had just sa t , down having at the con clus'on of lire speeek, spr:i.ise'st . "him for his clemency, to Mr. Elton, he , could only say that he rejected the praise, because if he had done his duty the House would never have heard of the subject which was now before them, and the pub lic would never have been troubled with Mr. Elton, had he dismissed him from her Majesty's service.—( Hear, hear. ) He said this the more readily as Mr. Elton and his friends were not unknown to him as they were to the Honourable Gentleman, and neither was Captain Williams mild - town to him as he was to the Hon. Member.— ( Hear, hear.) Mr. Elton's friends happened to be supporters of a relation of his who had a sea' in that House, so that if he had a leaning at all, it would be towards Mr. Elton. Mr. Elton - joined the Hercules as a volunteer of the first class when Captain Williams was Lieutenant, whom, when promotions took place at the:: Coronation, he recent'- , mended to Lord Minto for his good temper as an officer who deserved advancement, and he had received the common cer tificate which, as the Gallant. Officer knew, was merely given for the purpose of carrying their time: On his (Captain Berkeley's) joining the Thunderer, he wrote to Mr. Elton's father, to say that he had a vacancy in his vessel if his boy were unemployed, and Captain Williams was then appointed commander of that vessel. He could not say whether . Captain Williams was in the ship at the time or not, but, at all events, he was acquainted with every thing that was going for-' ward till they left Plymouth, and,consequently, he was aware of every thing of which Mr. Elton had been guilty. He considered the answer he had received a few evenings ago from the Gallant Officer opposite, to the question he had put, was perfectly satisfactory, and that the question had been set at rest, and that there would not have been another word on the sub ject actor the court martial. But that was not allowed to be the case, and the Hon. Gentleman was not satisfied with the answer which had been given by the head of the Naval Administration of the country, and which was satisfactory to him (Capt. B. ) He stopped Mr. Elton from going on shore as often as he pleased, and Mr. Elton then deserted. He (Captain B.) put it to the house, if a man under his command did the same, whether he could maintain the discipline of the navy and the character of a British man of war without giving this man three dozen at the gangway ?—(Bear, hear.) This young mass had not the excuse of his first ship, had deserted not for a week or ten days, but for so long a period that if he had not returned within a very few days of the time he did—and that return was not volun tary, for he was brought back by an elder brother— the maik of deserter would have been set against him in the ship's books, and it would not have beers in his (Capt. B.'s) power to save him. But on this occasion the young man's elder brother implored him so easnestly to look over the young man's fault, that, being pressed so urgently by the brother, whose feelings did him credit, and knowing his family, and wishing to excuse him, he said it would be impossible for him to remain ;n the ship as an example to the other yourg men, but that lie would allow him to join any other ship in the navy, if the Captain should be willing to take him when he (Capt. Berkeey) had made him acquainted with the facts connected with his leaving the Thunderer. Captain Bernard, of the Hercules, having succeeded him, expressed himself willing to take him, and he (Captain Berkeley) said that he would give Elton a certificate, which was a mere official document, to enable him to carry the time he had spent irs the Thunderer, not to Elton himself, but to the Captain, who might give it to him at the end of twelve months, if he should have well conducted himself within that time. Thus it appeared that if he (Captain Berkeley) had not shown clemency, the case would not be be fore the House now, and the Admiralty might be visited for its clemency, as lie was now. Now, he came to the statement of Elton in respect of Captain Williams. Capt. Williams was then on board the Cambridge, in a wide road stead. Capt in Williams was at dinner, and Elton, whose conduct was known to Captain Williams, did what all naval nem would see to be an act of the greatest impertinence. Ile asked the Captain for the loan of his boat. Why a Captain's boat was to him what his charger was to the Duke of Welling- toss ; and when the charger was ready saddled at the door, a s tbaltern in the army would have as much right to ask the Duke for the loan of his charger for a ride of five miles, as a 1 Nlidshipman would have to ask a Captain for ths loan of his boat. —( Hear, and oh.) The Hon. Gentleman might not know the etiquette of the service, but Mr. Elton did.—( Hear, hear.) Ile must well know that no Commander or Lieutenant would ask Captain Williams for a passage in his boat. The Hon. Gentleman might not know that the five or six men in the boat might have been from daylight till dark in attendance on the Captain—that the Captain might not wish that these men should have a pull of five miles to the shore and five miles back o pease a subaltern—( Hear, hear)—that he might not wish hat these should go after dark into a town where liquor was plentiful without the presence of an officer. These things might not be known to civilians, but they were well known to naval mess, anti every officer in the Navy would agree with him in taking the part of Captain Williams.. It should be farther recollected that if the boat were down in the water, a watch must remain up to hoist her up. Captain Williams, therefore, was not wrong in saying there is no an swer to the singular application of Mr. Elton ; and if he (Captain Berkeley) had been applied to under similar eircurn s 'toms, he would have sent for Mr. Elton to the quarter-deck and have reprimanded him for his impertincnce.—( Hear, and laughter.) The Hon. Gentleman had been somewhat , cvere upon him (Captain Berkeley), but he thanked God he had been brought up in the school of strict naval discipline, and he had never yet left a ship without hearing cheers and blessings from every man and officer with whom he had sailed. Let the Hon. Gentleman who thought he was guilty of ,melty to Mr. Elton, ask what scene occurred when he (Capt. IL) gave up the command of the Thunderer, with which he taunted him. lie thought now he hail proved that Elton a - as a dangerous character in the Navy, and that Capt. Wil liams was perfectly right in refusing that which he might have granted to an officer of a different character, and that the court-martial was justified in its sentence. He would tell the Honourable Gentleman that no Court was more just or ilement than a naval court-martial, and that nowhere had character more weight. Captain ROUS wished to explain the difference that existed between the. Honourable Member for Rye and himself ; and when the Honourable Gentleman had commanded a ship as long as he had, he had no doubt he would be a wiser and a better man.—( Hear.) It should be home in nsind that when Mr. Elton and Captain Williams met, the Captain knew that the former had deserted from the Thun derer, and, therefore, the request of Mr. Elton was a piece of xtreine impertinence. An apology was dictated to Elton by several gentlemanlike officers, but lie refused to sign it—when he did, it was too late. The court-martial took place, and .entenced him to six months' imprisonment. if this took place in the French or American Navy, he would have been charged with a felony, for challenging his superior officer, the greatest offence a man could commit.—(Hear.) But the very circumstance that lie was about to be discharged was made the cause of an ovation or triumph, and a great festival was prepared for bias. If he (Captain R.) were on the court-martial, he would have prevented such an act of mutiny by sentencing him to s'x months in England. How ever, orders came from the Admiralty to discharge the young man on his arrival at Portsmouth.—( Hear, and" No.") Well, at least the First Lord of the Admiralty gave a promise, and the sentence was set aside. When the young man came on board the Hastings he was in plain clothes instead of being in the charge of a sentry. This showed that the service was going to the dogs.—( Laughter.) He talked with the Mate on the quarter-deck in familiar conversation. Perhaps the Hon. Gentleman did not know that the quarter-deck was net a place for familiar conversation.—( Hear and laughter.) Captain Lawrence was quite right. A youngster of eighteen to say to a man of sixty, " You're a liar, and you know you're a liar !" If he (Captain Rous) were in his place, he would placed him in irons and gagged his mouth.—(Laughter, and hear, hear.) He hoped he might never sec the Hon. Member for Rye First Lord of the Admiralty.—( Hear, and laughter. ) The Hon. and Gallant Admiral said he had no fault to find with the court-martial or the scatence, yet this young man, who on his passage home called the Captain a liar, was for; given five months of his sentence. Why, if a man did this he would be hanged.—(Laughter.) Hon. Gentlemen might laugh but this was nu laughing matter for the cou n t r y. B u t the lion. and Gallant Admiral stultified the court-martial and the Admiralty. Ile was told that Mr. Elton was a man of family and education. Why, this made the case ten times worse.—( Laughter and hear.) If Elton were his nearest relative, he (Capt. B.) would sooner have lost his right hand than have gone to the Admiralty to ask for a day's remission. If he were his only child lie would say--" You have behaved youself like a mad-man, like a fool. If you are now to be imprisoned for six months, thank God it's no worse. —( Laughter.) I trust you will moderate your mind in future, and that you will come out a wiser and a better man.— ( Laughter.) Let this finish your education, and remember,— ' Ira furor brevis eat qua nisi par et imperet.' "—( Hear, hear.) Mr. CURTEIS explained. . Captain PECIIELL, after the diseusdon which had just taken place, could hardly helm to gain the attention of the House, while he asked for some information relating to the vote then before the Committee. He wished for some information as to the working of the Act for the Registration of Merchant Seamen. He had been in formed that some sisort time since, when a merchant ship had arrived in Torbay, it had been thought desirable to have some information as to the number and description of the crew, but on inquiry it was discovered that not one of these men had been registered. The general opinion was that the Register-office was of no importance, or consequence whatever. He should be glad of some information as to the condition and progress of the Register-office. Then, again, with regard to the apprentices. Great complaint had recently been made by the misplaced zeal of officers commanding naval rendezvous in differ ent ports, who seemed anxious to disover flaws in the in dentures of apprentices on board merchant vessels, for the pur pose of takine, advantage of them, and getting the apprentices to enter the Navy, thereby seriously inconveniencing the mer chant service. He alluded more particularly to a case which had recently occurred at Shields, and which had been brought under the attention of the Board of Admiralty. Mr. SYDNEY HERBERT denied that there was any desire on the part of the Admiralty- to distress the merchant service, and orders had been issued that in every instance an apprentice desei ting a merchant ship and seeking to enter the Navy, should be sent back to the merchant ship which he had left. With regard to the case which had been alluded by the Hon. and Gallant Member for Brighton. A youth of 20 had entered at the rendezvous at Shields, and the officer had accepted him. The master of a merchant ship claimed him as an apprentice, and produced certain indentures which he himself acknowledged to be invalid. The youth was desired to return to the merchant ship, lie refused to do so, and it was not until he had expressed his determination to gJ to London and enter, if he were refused at Shields, that he had been permitted to enter. With respect to the w .rking of the measure for registration, he had to state that since 1835 the number of seamen registered in the naval service was 15,000, and in the merchant service 30,000, snaking a total of 45,000 men. That was exclusive of the last year, and it was calculated that the increase in the last year was equal i to that of the y ear is:cording, which was a b ou t 10,000 ; so ' that :there had been upwards of 50,01/0 seamen registered 1 since 1835, and, notwithstanding thi s i ncrease , th e d eman d f ur seamen was so great, that their wages had risen 20 per cent. ' 'rho apprentices' register also amounted to about 5,000 annu ally, so that there was a steady annual supply of 5,000 men who had regularly served their time and learned their profession. 1 It was calculated that the number of seamen employed in fishing vessels and other unlicensed craft amounted to 180,000 men more. It had been supposed that the introduction .of ' steam navigation would tend materially to decrease the number of sailing vessels. Such, however, had not been the case since 1814, the Year in which steam navigation had been first intro duced. '1 he number of steamers had increased to 934, but dur:ng the same time there had been an increase in the number of sailing vesse l s , amounting to 3,610, m a ki ng a total increase of 4,544 vessels since 1814. The French regis. ter of seamen in 1831 (as we understood) showed 56,000 men as able seamen. The total at present was 98,000 men, but from that one-seventh must be deducted on account of o d men and boys under age, and 8,000 seamen, who had de serted, principally in the United States, that would reduce the total to 70,000 mess, and the total amount of French sea • men was now less by 5,000 men than it had been in 1795, and it was with the gseatest difficulty that they' could man th e i r . Hear, hear.) He believed that equal difficulty existed in the United States, fall back b fo a l i . :k th u e p p o u n r for purpose anin manning their N avy, while we had without much difficulty po m of showing i n o g u r t that Navy, vte fitted nut fifty-f o ur s hi ps s i nce the Ist of September. He men s t t a t h i a o d n e a d m t p h l e e se r e s c ou i rc r u e e m s o n should we find it necessary to do so on an emergency. Mr. C. WOOD wished to know the gross amount of the registered seamen in France, including all classes. Mr. SYDNEY HERREhT—lncluding all elasses,the to tal number is 95,706. Sir C. NAPIER approved of the Registration Bill applied to the Navy ; but he thought that measure might be carried out still further than at present. A seaman registered at one p ort must now be registered again at another to which he r emove d ; ' and he thought a register might be given to him by which that inconvenience might be avoided. With re gard to employment in duck-yards, it appeared to him that a great advantage would be gain.d byeufirring situations of ' that kind upo n d eser ving seamen. They would, by this means, obtain the parties bestfverfrfor the various offices in s dock yaril , while they would, at the same time, hold out an induce ment to men of good character to enter the service. Employ ment in the dock-yards was now a matter of private influenc, and the Navy was forgotten altogether. He remembered having asked an old seaman whether he had applied for a situation in a yard in which there was a vacancy ; upon which the man replied th a t any application upon his part would be useless, as the situation would of course be given to the seco n d butler of Lord Dalmeny, who had been keeping company with Lady Minto's maid.—(Laughter.) He would take that opportunity of making a statement in confirmation of an observation which had fallen from him the other evening, as to the very advanced age of many of the superior officers in our Navy.—( Hear.) He tound that out of the first two hundred Captains on the list seven were upwa-ds of 70 years of age; forty nine were from 65 to 70 years old ; sixty-nine were from 60 to 65 years old ; sixty-six were from 55 to 60 years old ; and there were only nine under 55 years of age. He believed thal this evil night be remebed by an additional grant of a few thousands a year, which it ould enable the Government to pen• sion of officers arrived at an age at which it might be sup. posed they could not sufficiently discharge their duties. `Re vote was then agi red to. The next vote having been put for the sum of 34,992/. for the salaries of officers, and the several expenses connected with the scientific department of the Navy, Mr. COOPER. said 112 wished to ask the Hon. Gen tleman whether it was the i.itcntion of the present Board of Admiralty, and of the Government Inspectors of Schools, to adopt the recommendations of a Commission which hail been appointed some years ago to inquire into the state of instruc tion at the Greenwich Hospital School. :dr. SYDNEY HERBERT said that the subject was one to which the present Administration, as well as the last, had paid the utmost attention. The system recommended for the instruction of the boys was be;ng carried out at present; but the system of discipline had not succeeded so well, and the fullest powet s were given to the masters of the school for that ruxpoe. Captain FiTzvoY sail that although he might meet with the reprobation of the Hon. Member for Coventry, be could not help saying that he wished the' proposed vote was a larger one. The officers employed in the hydrographical department at home, fur ha:stance, were very ill paid, although the officers abroad ((ere rather well remunerated. He might refer to the case of Captain Beaufort. a man whose reputation it would be needles , for him to enlarge upon, and who had only an allowance of 5001. a year, with a house, for his service 3, at the head of the Ilvdrographical dipartment. CApt. Ph-CHF:a asked whether Capt.. Beaufort did not also receive his half-pay ? Capt. FITZ RO Y said that he did ; but so did the Lords of the Admiralty. The Hon. Member for Halifax had taken great credit to himself, toe other evening, for the improve ments which the Administration to which he had belonged had introduced into the service; and he hail endeavoured to de preciate the exertions of the " Flag Officer." But to that ' officer in his (Captain Fitzroy's) opinion the improvements in question were mainly owing. He wished to say a few words about he West India Packets. He thought that wa; a subject which required the further coosidi ration of the Admiralty ; and it ha 1 been found that the vessels now upon that station were very inconveniently built for the purposes for which they were intended. They were too large for run ning among the blands, and they were to weakly built to run between the Islands and this country. Mr. C. WOOD said that he could not attribute the improve ments (fleeted in the service to the " Flag Officer," as the Ilo:t. and Gallant Member who preceded him had done. That officer had !pa le his suggestions in the year 1838, and the impiovements had been commenced in 1837. The statement of the " Flag Officer" was incorrect—was totally without founclition. Anything. so incorrect as the statement of the " Flag Officer" he had never seen in his life, and it was the less to be exeth•ed as he had all the papers before him. The vote was then agreed to. On the question being put that 124,445/. be granted to her Majesty to defray the expenses of naval establishments at home. Mr. C. \V00) took the opportunity of suggesting that Captain Elliot, late Plenipotentiary of her Majesty in China, was deserving of sore employment at home, in consequence of his zeal and personal sacrifices in the employment which he lately held. _ . _ Sir GEORGE COCKBURN said whenever an opportu nity offered, the merits of Captain Elliot should not be over looke.t.—(llear ) The vote was 111C11 a reed to. The stun of 23,1761. for the salaries of officers of naval esta blishments ate ad wa. next voted. A vote of 567,027/. for the wages of artificers and others in naval establishments at home, was agreed to. The sum of 38,530/. for the %%ages of artificers in her Ma jesty's naval establishments abroad was then voted. he quest:on b , ing put that the sum of ,238,90:1. be granted fur Naval Stores, Dr. BOW RING said that 113 could nut allow this enormous vote to be passed at so late an hour. lie should, therefote, move that the Chair,::an rep , rt. progress. There was no regular ac count wha'ever kept of the st tree in this country, nor was Par liament informe.l what was the quantity at any time on hand. Sir JAMES GRAHAM said that .the Hon. Member was under a very erroneous impression The fact was, that a very exact account of the stores on hand, was Owes s kept, but when it was recollected 'the contiii'dfilii,&e,Ys made 'by tender, it must be obvious that it would be, highly injudicious to make it k:,oun from tim e t o ti me w h at was the exact amount of stores on hand: Dr. BOWRING wished to kno*.'wlin . 62 abttoliife survey of the stores was last made ? • • - - Sir JAMES GRAHAM—In- 154 1 .--(.Alatigh.)! -!' Mr. WILLI AMS moved that the Chairman report progress. It had been n established rule for thelast three years net to vote any public money after twelve o'elock.'....—(A latigh.) Mr. S. HERBERT said that he did not intend to go fur ther than the present vote that nigh'. Mr. WALLIAMS—You had better take all the votes to gether. The vote was then agreed to. The House then resumed, and the Chairman reported pro gress' and obtaineai leave to sit again. The Rivers (Ireland) Bill was read a second time, and or dered to be committed on Monday. Sir GEORGE CLERK moved that the House, on Wed nesday, resolve itself into a Committee of Ways and Means.._ Ordered. SALMON FISHERIES (SCOTLAND). Mr. 11. Dc{ UAIAIOND brought in this Bill, which was read a first time. The other Orders of the Day were then dispos, d of, and the House Adjourned at One o'Clock. SECESSION FROM THE HOUSE OF COMMONS. TO TIIE EDITOR OF THE SUN. SlR,—As a reader of your able Jmrual, I would make a suggestion in the present critical position of our country, and the utter disregard on the part of the Legislature to the welfare of the industrial yortion of the community, and their con temptuous denial of justice to the famishing population of the manufacturing districts. I would suggest, that during the passing of the " Pinch-belly" measure of the monopolists, that these patriotic men who, in the House mis.called the Pe 'pie's, have stood for ward as the advocates of unrestricted commerce, that they should absent themselves, either ita a body or individually, previously protesting before the House their determina!ion, that they should return to their respective constituencies; that ineetiggs should be convened, at which meetings the representation of the people iu their own House may be discussed and some understanding come to as to the course to he yut sued. The public generally are sick of the talk of Parliament. Nce.l we wonder at this ? Let those who represent the mil lions leave the trimmers to assist in the childish play of dividing to no purpose; and let them entsr on the noble and righteous course that is before them—the attainment for the whole people f a share in the Government, as laid down in the simple pro position adoi.ted by Joseph Sturge and his coadjutors. That this object may soon be realised, and men recognise the Scrip ture maxim et doing unlo others as they would be done by, and ishin,g your Journal success in the advocacy of these views, suhscibc myself (with regret), AN UNREPRESENTED ENGLISHMAN. London, March 7, 12342. THE NEW AVERAGES. TO THE EDITOR OF THE SUN. Sue,—having a perfeet knowledge of Dover Corn..market, and of those to be added by the slippery Ministers for aver ages for the new Sliding Scale, allow me to present to you a few facts upon this selection, and to request of gentlemen re siding in the localities of the several markets to be added for future averages, t., forward to you such hints as to the quality of the wheat sold at those places as may occur to them. Dover Coen .market begins at three o'clock r. m., or rather later; the number of persons attending very few; sometimes not exceeding twenty ; the quantity of business done inconsi derable. The laud being very interior about Dover, the qua lity of the wheat is at ail times iufet ior, and, in unfavourable harvests like the last, much of it unfit for human food. The Corn nnarket at Sandwich, about the second in the country, which makes no return, where nearly all the fine wheat for Dover is purchased, is supplied with wheat of an average full ss. per quarter superior to the wheat sold at Dover; is well attended ; and where ten times the business is dune. This market is omitted in the present and new selection of markets for futnre. averages. So that the Dover market is selected to make returns or wheat which, unmixed, the inhabitants cannot eat, and no re turn of the fine wheat they do cat, is, or is not, intended to be made at all. Such will be the Dover averages. Is this selec tion made from ignorance? If so, it is a poor plea for a Mi nister of State ; and, if by design, it is downright dishonesty, and is done to unfaitly keep down the averages, like the pre sent system, which requires factors to return all wheat sold, whether fur human food, or for maki ng starch for ladies' caps ; whilst, by the new addition, a bett er sort of pi meat will heap the sliding seals to keep out of th e country wholesome food for its sustenance. I do hope these Nets will induce others to expose the trieks of the Sli►ling Scale Ministers in their 'levers] localities. Dover, March 4, 184'2. FAIRPLAY. The Mot% kg is an extract from a factor's letter, dated Mark lane, Much 5, 1843: " The sprout, d wheat from Scotland, which has lately come upon our market, h..s been sold at all prices, from 30s. to 50$ per quarter." Now, the sane letter quotes fine Essex and Kent wheat in hark-lane at 6Ss. Ilene is a fine specimen of Ministerial and Parliamentary legislation and human wisdom, one of the beau tiesere of the sliding-1 had almost said the scampipg is agricultural protection, where pig's meat is bnacle.nard keepwith human food to enhance the price of sound wheat, d existence a by the out foreign grain, to the destruction of hum an body politic, for the protecti on, this to be made for the protection of the agriculturists, d : ' and into the averages:- worse by the introduction of morei2 s not of health,n.orexistence, but - --- flinearunel was, meeember, wreck e d on Immediately the unfortunat e su ff erers . Tlic Globe states th a t the Oceans of liavie, 70 0 tons, having on board 300 emigrants , m en, D women, and chi'. a d r b e a n n , k b o o u ff n d j f a o m r a ll e e 4 w O . reached the shor e the y were stripped perfectly :raked by th e , ne groes, who plunde red the shi p , not lea%ing ev, en a sin g l e ro p e of the rigging%