The Sun. — London, England, 1842-04-20 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, April 19. ii///$1 Z.l:=,! Their Lordships met at Five o'Clock. EDUCATION IN IRELAND. The Bishop of DERRY presented a petition from the parish of Templemore, in favour of the present system of national education in Ireland. The petitions stated that, of the 59,000 children receiving instruction in the national schools, 21.000 were Roman Catholics. PRESBYTERIAN MARRIAGES. Lord MOUNTCASHELL presented a petition from a congregation of Presbyterians in the city of Cork, praying for an alteration of the law relating to Protestant marriages in Ireland. The Indemnity Bill, and the Public Works Bill, were each read a third time and passed. CORN-LAWS. —THE TARIFF. The Earl of YARBOROUGH presented a petition 're.n'firir,g, in Lincolnshire, against the proposed altera tit,,t (); the Corn-laws. • Earl of HARDWICKE took that opportunity of vading extracts from papers on their Lordships' table to show that there was no reason to apprehend that an in crsasel importation of agricultural produce would have a" sensible effect upon the interests of British agricul ttire“. as the returns showed , that, n otwithstanding a constant. and progressive increase in the importation of live cattle from Ireland since 1817, there had been no de preciation of British stock, and no diminution of prices. CORN IMPORTATION BILL. Lord MOUNTCASHEL gave notice that on the Corn Importation Bill going into Committee, he should move that certain towns in Ireland be added to those already mentioned, as the ones from which the averages should be taken. APPLES IMPORTED. Earl IZADNoII. moved for a return of the quantity of apples imported into this country, and said that he would also move for a repeal of the duty. On the. motion beinc , put, Earl WINCIIILSEa said he would take that oppor .tnnify of stating that he considered any alteration in the duty would be injurious. Earl RADNOR said that when the prohibitory duties existed, the price of apples fell from 12s. 6d. to 2s. 4d., and when the duty was lowered the price rose. The return, as we understood, was then agreed to. Earl .11ADNOR presented a petition from Sydenham against the Corn-laws. • Lord IiINNAIIiII presented several petitions to the same d'eu'c e. - Earl FITZWILLIAM presented petitions to the same effect. DUTY ON MAHOGANY. answer to a question from Lord KINNAIRD, RIPON said', that instead of there being no re duction, there was a considerable reduction made, and fur the o bvious reason that it would benefit the manufac turers of furniture. Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from the Dissenters of Sligo, praying for an alteration in the marriage duty. CORN-LAWS. - . Lord BROUGHAM said, that in order to give their Lordships an opportunity of pronouncing their opinion on the eutire merits of this question, he would give notice, , that When the resolution of his Noble Friend (Viscount Melbourne) was disposed of eh e ~ vould propose the following resolutions, which referred to, the absolute question of the merits of duties upon importation altogether. It appeared to, him that those - slim .resolutions, taken one after another, would give • their Lordships an opportunity of . expressing their eminions clearly upon the whole merits of that most im ien-tant branch of the question, namely, whether or not ' there ought to be any duties imposed on the importation of corn. The first resolution was—" That no duty ought to -I;eimposed upon the importation of foreign corn for the r,,,leoose of protecting the agriculturist by taxing the „int i.oduetion of food." Secend: " That no duty ought to ', .assn, imposed on the importation of foreign corn firer -I.le purpose of regulating the trade, by taxing the eiuraeeduction of food." Third : "That no duty ought to . "Ibe 'imposed on the importation of foreign corn, for the • "pet'easte of raising the revenue, by taxing the introduce ti to of food." I ,• eel MELBOURNE presented a petition from a num lter 01' farmers in the county of Norfolk, against a gradu , .li eel iraie of duty on the importation ofcorn and flour, and .in teeeeurof a fixed duty. The Noble Lord then said that ,in eti!_ttnitting to their Lordships the resolution of which ,lie hedegiven notice, and. which if adopted as a substan tive :motion, would have the same effect as if adopted . a" tot amendment, he, considering. that the subject of -the Cern-laws had beers so recently discussed in every pens hie shape, thought it would be unpardonable in hint, in pressing his own views on their Lordships, if he were to ,state more than would be necessary to e xp lain his own conduct, or than would be likely to affect the .ultiteate decision of their Lordships. He declared that in brining forward his measure he meant to be as calm and • int i mrtial as he could he, avoiding all party allusions and criminatory observations.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Nord. who followed his Noble Friend in his speech of last night, divided the subject into two parts ; the first was whether it was absolutely necessary that there should be a duty 'on the importation of foreign corn, and if it were, secondly, how this regulation should be imposed. Strictly speaking, it was only with the second part. he should have to deal. To this his resolution was confined. At the same time he would make a few obser vation: for his own vindication on the general question. His Noble Frienn's resolutions would lay open the whole question, so deeply interesting to all classes of the commu nity, whether it was necessary to impose a duty on foreign corn or whether it should be left entirely free for impor tation for consumption from all parts of the world. He had not always been so much as many others favourable to an immediate and decided application of this latter principle in the present circumstances of the world. He thought that it would have been a far more desirable arrangement for the human race if every nation employed itself upon those productions, • for which the soil and climate of the land in ithich it was settled were best fitted, and received its supply of other productions front the countries to which they were natural. But whilst ' all reason and the interests of mankind. were on that side, all usage, all custom, all' pre jtulices, "all feelings, with few exceptions, were en the other—:(ll6er, hear) —and thus it happened, that although the principles of free trade were generally ad mitted, the opposite principles had a strong hold upon the public mind. Although many were to be found willing enough to sign petitions on the general principle, yet if you came to speak to any person about taking 'off a duty, you would find that they considered the question only with regard to the interest of the producer. •--(Hear, hear,) So strong was the feeling upon that subject, that he certainly was not prepared to adopt the resolutions proposed by his Noble and Learned Friend.— (Hear, hear.) Yet he did not think that the ground of exclusive burdens, said to he borne by the agriculturists, had great solidity. He did not say • - whether those burdens existed or not, but he said, if • - they existed, they ought to be remedied in a direct manner, and not by maintaining a system of Corn-laws which was said to inflict so much suffering, and privation on the rest of the community. He owned he did not think that that was a ground of any great weight or force. It would not, perhaps, be in applicable to g'' back to ancient history ; if they looked to Athens and Rome they would find that they depended oil foreign corn. And it had been said by a great orator in .‘ ihens, ".Of all mankind, we the flout rely on fort•ign corn." He mentioned this to show that all the greatness - of these countries was to be.ascribed to their dependence on foreign core. But, supposing that the great wants of thi.-. eonntry, its greatly increasing population, its grow it,. A ant, should occasion a much larger importation of ;et.eign corn necessary than they hall hitherto required, the t would be more truly described as rendering foreign ..- , . nations dependent on us, than we upon them.— .. , Hetet,. hear.) The tradesman was. a go od deal “ y 77ii-v ; re dependent on the customer . than the on,t, , tner on the tradesman, provided he .could pay.— „leitellear.) He should say that nothing could tend in a ';""gr - tetter degree than a commercial dependence, as of - "u .'M'r and seller, to prevent war in the first instance, to t ,' - ', 4 "istftWet them - whilst engaged in it, and to bring it to a ' 4 4 ll .(fY, conclit iitit. They had been asked why they were ef ts opo ' tins Bill—why, he should be for it at once if he k 4 , , ; 9,Si ; place any confidence in what his Noble Friend said last night.—(Bear, hear.) He should be for it ,Af be could agree with his Noble Friend, that the supply ti e e . ef i ewl,l ,b, so inconsiderable as to be of no use to the te ee siteteefique—(Hear.) His Noble Friend said, that a small , Inantity would destroy home agriculture, and then our f*atrverA w, mild not be able to supply the people. He (Lord , ' , 1, - ) tented his fears to be not that they should send in too linty, but a great deal too much. lie had read a good • deal on Ode sttbject. He had perused many pamphlets and documents, and had heard many argument~. " He could not find any sufficient foundation for that opi nion. The Noble Lord had delivered a very able urgument to show that the poorer lands in this country would be thrown out of cultivation ; but the question was, how much corn could foreign countries send, end at what price could they send it ? and he be tioved that that could be only ascertained by experi ment.—(Hear, hear.) They could not remove all pro tection without giving a shock ' to public opinion, and he u'as therefore against such a mea sure. The question, then, was to regulate that protection. And he had no question whatever in his mind that the best course to adopt on the subject was to impose a fixed duty, winch would give certainty to trade, and remove the restrictions that impede it : it would avoid all the frauds in the taking of the ace l'ages. Great discontent prevailed on the subject. If frauds existed, a fixed duty would put an end to them ; and if they did not exist it would do what was equally advantageous, for it would put an end to the injurious opinions and suspicions that prevailed on the subject. It would give that stability and certainty, which could not exist under the present law. But it was said that a fixed duty could not be maintained. He keciv very well that great efforts might be made to inft!me the public mind on the question ; but h e behevvd that there would be no difficulty in maintatuine the system which had been so long maintained. In his resohniott he had not stated any amount of duty. All that he called on their Lerdships to d e wa s to a affirm a principle. He recommended the • I , e , pee i t i o n because he thought it would prevent fraud. i!e made his motion with referenee to the past, with i i i ,,yi t ., t i on t i ; t;ge present, and with respect to the fut:ire. with reference to tilt , past, in• justification of th:- :iovernment which 'brought the proposition—with r,;;:reet et to the I m eent, because he c onceived it the fist course to be adopted, though he had little ta upe o f being able to induce their Lordships to adopt it —amid V. Ltl- respect to the future, in the perfect confidence that it eould one day be adopted, and become the law of this ntry. ' - 'he Earl of RIPON said that .from .the manner in wnieli the Noble Lord had introduced his measure, than which nothing could'be more fair or candid, it would not be necessury tor. Ike _GI. Noble Earl) to address their 1,, • , islaps at any length; but he must "ericreavour to irn ixe, it oa the House that it would be 'most unwise in their Lordships to accede to the proposition of the No ble Viscount. They had last night rejected measures intended to stop the progresS' of the present Bill, and they had voted for the second reading of it ; but this proposition would call upon them to rescind that resolu tion, and to adopt a new principle for regulating the trade in corn, without having received from the Noble Lord a glimmering how his principle was to be carried into effect.—(Hear, hear.) All parties consideried it necessary to come to some conclusion or other on this subject. If the proposal of his Noble Friend were adopted, and the Bill were rejected, the question would be left as it was, and it could not be supposed that in the course of the present session they would be in a condition to effect an alteration of the law.—(Hear.) 1 If the proposition of his Noble Friend were adopted, no practical result would be obtained.—(Hear.) But he would not put his opposition to that proposition upon any ground of convenience. He objected to it on prin ciple. It would not effect the object which his No le Friend contemplated ; but that great difficulty would e found in its operation He thought it would aggrav to the evils of the country, and render them more difficelt to manage. He thought the evils would counterbalanbe any imaginable advantage(Hear, hear.) I- is Noble Friend d ec lined to enter into detai s, or state any specific scheme, further than tl t he would adhere to the scheme proposed by his olfm 1 Government last year, namely, a duty of Bs. per quarter. His Noble Friend had argued his case very well. He had stated a great number of good names, but he hitd thrown overboard also some equally good reasons.;— (Hear, hear.) . He had stated his reasons against free trade, and therefore he proposed a plan on the prineilie of protection.—(Hear, hear.) But he had not told tlie House in what way his duty of Bs. would give the ne cessary protection.—(Hear.) To propose a duty, whieh was not sufficient to the protection which was thought ip dispensably necessary,would only deceive those for whom the protection was intended, and would do no good to t tie restof the community. In the present state of things gs. would be no protection.—(Hear, hear.) Whatever might be the objections to a prohibitous duty, if thete was any protection at all, it must beat some point hr other a prohibitory duty.—(Hear, hear.) If the prite at which foreign corn could be imported into thiscount y on an average of years was 405., and if the remunerati g price should be between 565. and 605., and his Nob e Friend had not said anything to the contrary, it was perfectly msnifest that the duty of Bs. would be no pr - tection at all—(Hear, hear)—and it would be nothitt g more than a delusion to imagine the contrary. B t there was another objection to this measure in his mi d which was impassable—lie did not deny that the si - plicity and uniformity of its operations would be a r - r, commendation, but what was that when the fu d of the people was concerned ? Protection was r - quired in this country when the price was very lo , but at that time this measure would afford not His Noble . Friend said that there was something exceedingly regular and advantageous to the ordinary operations of commerce under the fixed duty, which d d not apply - to the graduated scale. If the protection we e sufficient, it must be- such as to give a remunerati g price. The Noble Viscount, who contended for a fix d duty, must adMit that remuneration was one of the el - ments of the plan, but who is to say what is a remunera tit g price ? He (Lord R) never contended for the Corn - law n that ground, but .to keep out the foreigner when t e price was low.—(Hear, hear.) But when the price ro , , and made a fixed ditty dangerous, the Noble Viscount would rely on the good sense of the country not to o - ject to a fixed duty on that -account, in consequence ff the advantages it would confer when the price was lo v. But would it not be imprudent to rely on anything )f the kind ?—(Hear, hear.) He did not even gi .e them a mystic view of the mode by which he w s prepared to meet the case of a rise in price. —(He. r, hear.) His Noble Friend led him to anticip' e that some measure would then be necessary, but tlt n the fixed duty vanished, and therefore the essential pri - ciple of a fixed duty was not there. His Noble Frie d let out that, if circumstances were favourable, and t e agricultural interest a little more agreeable, a little mo e might be given—it might be 12s. or 14s. Viscount MELBOURNE—I mentioned no sum. I ' The Earl of RIPON—That showed the ingenuity of the ' Noble Lord—(Hear, hear, and laughter)—and that wits the reason they ought .not to go with him. But whht was to be done when the prices rose ? Was a power o be given to the Government ; and if so, might not Gp vernments differ in their opinions on the subject ? Whitt was the objection to the graduated scale ? It was the great rapidity with which the duty changed, and the consequent inducement to parties to have recourse 'to undue means of influencing the averages. But in the case of a fixed duty, the charge would be more rapid. It would be from nothing to Bs., and from Bs. to nothing, and there would be the greatest uncer tainty from beginning to end. There fell from his Noble Friend, a word which made him (the Earl ! of Ripon) feel that he did not look on .his proposition as one that he could maintain inviolate. Alluding to the various considerations that led him to object to the motion of his Noble and Learned Friend, the Noble Viscount (Melbourne) said that the situation of things now would not warrant the absence of all protection. The Earl of CLARENI)ON was glad to find that the great and increasing evils of the Corn-law system were now generally admitted. He would support the motiim of his Noble Friend (Lord Melbourne), but in doing so he wished, in reference to the Noble Earl who had just sat down, to congratulate the House and the. conntry on the unanimity which almost prevailed as to the neces sity of a change. He wished he c_itlil also congratu late the Noble Earl (Ripon) on the measures he had in troduced. He was far from agreeing with his Nettle Friend (Earl Stanhope) that the passing of the present Bill would produce a revolution to which the horrors of the French Revolution were but milk and water - (Hear, hear, from Lord Stanhope, and general laugh ter)—for certainly this measure would neither deprive the agriculturists of the protection they now enjoyed, nor abate a single evil of the present system.=--(Hear; hear, hear.) Still he rejoiced to see the measure intro - duced, because it was an abandonment of the position the party opposite had long held, and soon they would he driven to another point. The present law had so far disappointed its framers, that 2,000,000 or 3,000,000 of the population of this country had under this measure become dependent on foreign food. Did we not depend upon foreign nations for the fifty milllions of manufac tures which they took from us, and by which five mil lions of our population were maintained ?—(Hear, hear.) How could we disrense with our dependence upon foreign nations fo r our supply of iron, flax, cotton, and the rest ? How could we maintain our navy unless we had commerce with all the nations of the world ?—(Hear.) But yet when it was sought to extend that commerce and at the same time to augment the food of the people, —Parliament was told that we ought not to be depOi dent on foreign countries.—(Cheers.) But the true Way to be independent of particular nations was to have coin- , mercial relations with them all.—(Hear, hear.) By that means we should have a steady and constant course Of trade, and avoid that draining of the gold, and derange ment of the monetary system, which only three years ago brought the Bank of England to the verge of insolvency, from which it was saved mainly by the assistance afforded by the Bank of France.—(Hear, hear.) Look again to the result of mutual dependence, as it was shown in the late revolt in Canada, when swarms ,:f American citizens were gathered upon the shores of the colony, and the press and the people wire violent in their animosity to the country, whilst the snore prndent Government was impatient to restrain theta.— (Hear, hear.) What was it that then prevented war ? (Hear, hear.) It was the 15 millions of raw prodlice which we took from America, and the still greater quan tity of manufactures which we sent there. This was an illustration of what his Noble Friend had said. There was no country with which we could carry on so great an amount of trade as the United States, and none with which the object • of increasing it could be obtairte:l, whilst they were yet in our power, whilst, in short, they were mutually dependent on each other, and before !we compelled them, as we did the Germans 20 years ago; to turn manufacturers. We excluded ourselves from the supply from America in the same way as the Southern States. His Noble Friend said that they could not get any supply from America ; the reason was becauselwe closed our markets to them ; they were anxious to send it to us, and if our markets were opened, there was every reason to believe that we should have a great supply from that quarter.—(Hear, hear.) They (the Ameri cans) complained of our laws, and no wonder, when,' as had been the case, the duty, in the course of five weeks, varied from 225. Bd. to Is. He thought such an example as that was a striking instance of the injurious effects of the sliding scale, and justified the Americans in the com plaints they made against us: If America adopted a sliding scale with regard to cotton, the consequence would be that their trae with America would cease.— (Hear.) And if the principle of a sliding scale was hurt fbl with regard to countries at a distance, it would also be hurtful with regard to countries nearer home, because - the principle of a sliding scale was to destroy all regular trade. The demand was unexpected when it was made, and they could not suppose that when it was made a cur - responding demand would be made for their goods. An other evil of the sliding scale was, that the markets of foreign countries were not prepared to supply their de mand, and consequently an artificial rise of prices was occasioned in those foreign countries.-(Hear, hear.) He did not suppose that the Government brought in the Bill for the sake of occasional revision of the law as the Noble Lord had said last night, were they not holding out a premium to continued agitation.(Hcar.) What Mr. Alexander Baring and Mr. Iluskisson said on the subject ought not to be lost sight of, who said that the Corn-laws were intimately connected with their manufactures and commerce. Was it not most absurd to seek, by means of legislative enactments, to fix.the price of food—a subject which was above all such at tempts ?—(Cheers.) He had no hesitation in avowing himself opposed to all protection as a system. He de sired, indeed, to see duty levied for the purposes of revenue. Last year he had given his coidial support to the measure proposed by the late Government, be cause he thought it would greatly benefit the producer and the consumer. As to the protection of the Bs. duty, when they took into consideration that the average duiv on corn for the last thirteen years was about 55. 6d., it must be evident to all that that duty was quite sufficient. He compared the proposition of the Bs. duty last year to the demand that was made in former years for the disfranchisement of the rotten boroughs. If that de the Reform Bill might m h a a v n e d b b e a e d n lboenegn a c r o r m e s p t l e i d e d . w S i o t , b, if the Bs. duty were ac cepted, the establishment of free trade in corn would be postponed for many years. Could the landlords say as much of the present Bill?—(Cheers.) Could they doubt that the whole protective system bad now received its ueath-blow?—(Cheers.) Would not the next concession we should soon most assuredly be called upon to make, place the farmers in a much worse condition than if they . bad a;cepted the Bs. fixed duty ? Many persons, speak ing of the distress of the country, attributed it to the failure of American Banks and other Call...es: The causes were the vigorous competition to our iiiiihnitfactures that - had sprung up in Switzerland, • Germany, the United States, and other countries. To that was to be attri buted the active competition with which we.'were met. and the spirit of hostility which was engendered by our own system.—(Hear, hear.) It was only by prompt, and vigorous, and wise measures, that the future could give to agriculture an adequate and steady protection. He supported the proposition of his Noble Friend (Lord Melbourne). (The Noble Lord sat down amidst much cheering.) The Earl of WICKLOW said, that in the debate of last night, he by no means concurred in the arguments of some of those Noble Lords with whom he voted. Ont. Noble Lord said that he voted for the measure solely of the ground that it would not have a tendency to reduce prices. If that had been his (Lord Wicklow's) opinion. he would not support the measure—(Hear)—for he thought that no change of the law ought to be math which could be without effect.—(Hear.) The opinion of the country was, tkat this measure would reduce the price of food. £hat hope had been held out to the people, and he should be sorry to see that hope disappointed. Neither did he support it on the ground that it would be permanent, but, on the con trary, that it would tend to ulterior measures—(Cheers) —because he thought it a mode by which the public would be prepared. for greater changes—to prepare the agriculturists of this country for greater changes—that this law was calculated to do good.—(Hear, hear.) They first had a law introduced to regulate the price at 80s. or 90s. ; then that was reduced ; but the agriculturists of this country were in as flourishing a condition as ever.—(Hear.) He did not think this Bill at all inter• fered with the prosperity of agriculture. But if the argu ments of his Noble Friends on his side of the House did. not operate on his mind in giving his vote last night, he confessed that the Noble Baron from Essex said some thing relative to taxes borne by the land which should guide him in his vote. He (Lord Wicklow) said that the taxes of this country had no con cern in this matter. They were paid by the wealth of the country, and by increasing that wealth by means of commerce and manufactures the burdens ce taxation would not be so grievous. If the agriculturists paid the taxes, then, indeed, there would be something in the observation which had fallen from the Noble Baronet—but 'that was not so. He (Lord Wicklow) agreed with the Noble Viscount that the burdens of land could not be much affected. He would now advert to the difference between a sliding scale and a fixed duty, or as his Noble Friend (Lord Stanhope) had called it. the difference between the guillotine and the hatchet.— (Laughter.) His Noble Friend said that there was no difference ; but in his (Lord Wicklow's) opinion there was a very. great difference.—(Laughter.) He would much prefer the well-finished, well-wrought, well-con sidered instrumen,t to the rude, unfashioned one, taken up at the moment of execution, and perhaps taken up by the executioner at the moment rather to defend himself than to apply it to its legitimate purpose.—(Laughter.) If the object of a fixed duty was to increase commerce and manufactures, he believed it would be better than a sliding scale.—(Opposition cheers.) Other nations: would know better the grounds on which they were trading, and they would know what price they were to pay.—(Cheers from the same quarter.) Ho thought the trade would be more fixed and certain ; but the Noble Viscount having declared that the object of a fixed duty was to protect agriculture, he thought that object would be better secured by the Bill of his Noble Friend. He would now only allude to the circum stances of Ireland. He heard many persons declare that, sere it not for Ireland, they would be disposed to vote for a fixed duty, but that Ireland being so peculiarly cir cumstanced, they would, for her sake, vote to maintain the Corn-law. If he thought that the proposed altera tions tended to injure the interest of that country, he would feel bound, circumstanced as he was a ith regard to it, but especially on account of the conduct pursued towards it by this country—not lately, but at a former critical period of her history—he would feel bound to oppose it. Had Ireland been protected and fostered by their predecessors, she would now be a source of wealth and credit to England, instead of a mill-stone around her neck. He should, therefore, feel bound to oppose those alterations if they tended to injure the interest of that country; but if there was any part of the empire which should feel less than another any distress from the pro posed measure, that part was Ireland. The Noble and Learned Lord opposite, yesterday alluded to the decrease in the exports of wheat from that country, and he argued from that an improvement in the condition of the people. He feared that such was not the case. For the last three years, there were peculiarly bad harvests in Ireland, and scarcely any wheat was raised that was fit for exportation. It therefore became necessary to apply it to the other uses—the use of the distiller and brewer. The greater consumption of wheat in Ireland had been principally caused by bad harvests ; for then the wheat, being unfit for exportation, was sold very cheaply to the people. He hoped that the people would get a taste for wheat ; but he thought the climate of Ireland not fit for wheat, while it was admirably adapted for oats ; therefore, while the protection on wheat was lowered, that on oats ought to be higher. He was glad of the change made by the tariff as to foreign cattle. What ever effect the change would produce—and he only feared, that in respect to cattle, it would not be much—still, it would so far serve as an inducement to the people of Ireland to apply themselves to the cultivation of corn. It might be true that the nations of the Continent would not be able to import much cattle into this country. Yet there would be this advantage, that the measure, by raising the price of food on the Continent, would place the artisans of this country on a par with their Continental rivals. For these reasons he had last night given his vote for the measure of the Government, and would now vote against the proposi • ition of the Noble. Lord opposite. Lord VIVIAN said, he had endeavoured to divest himself of all party feelings in coming to the consideration of this question ; and when a Member of the other House, he had supported, in opposition to the wishes of his constituents, the same opinions which should on this occasion govern his vote. His profession as a soldier had prevented him, until recently . , from giving the question of protective duties his consideration ; . but when he did come to examine the subject, he was con vinced that protective duties were of little advantage to the protected class, and a great disadvantage to the public. ( Hear, hear.) In a country like this, where the population was daily increasing, and the demand for food and labour also increasing, he thought the proposed legislation most unjust, and he thought it better to fix a minimum of labour than a minimum of food.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord proved last night that they had not to fear any great importation of foreign corn. During one hundred and eighty years, in which this subject had been legislated upon, thirty-eight Acts of Parliament had been passed, and yet no satisfactory conclusion had been come to ; with this view, he thought that if they admitted foreign corn free of duty, it might set those matters at rest, and restore the quiet and tranquillity of the country. He was most anxious that this should be settled ; and he should, therefore, be glad to enter into such a compro mise as a fixed duty. e knew there was a feeling throughou, this country, that the agriculturists were antiching themselves by these laws, to the detriment of the other classes. He (Lord Vivian) did not think so. He agreed with the observations in an excellent pamphlet, called," Corn and Currency," written by the Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of the Home .)e -partment, that the commerce and agriculture of this country were so dovetailed together, so linked and bound up in one an other, so connected, that they could not be separated. He ac knowledged that the agriculturist was the best customer of the manufacturer, arid that, if agriculture suffered, manufactures must suffer with it ; but when he saw that the manu'acturer was not able to compete with the foreigner, and that the Corn laws were partly the cause, he considered that agriculture must itself suffer. He thought that the great cause of the present difficulties were to be attributed both to agriculturists and manu facturers, who sought t t keep up war prices after the war had ceased. He was rejoiced at the alteration made in the tariff, but he compained that more was not done ; but he thought there was an inconsistency in imposing an Income-tax, which was the most obnoxious and disagreeable tax that could be imposed, while the corn and sugar monopolies were nut touched. He would say ore word before he sat down with re spect to being able to maintain a fixed duty ; the very argu ment showed that there was little danger that prices could get up. It reminded him of an anecdote in which he was con ! cerned. An officer met him one day in the street, and said he was glad that he was not present at a certain battle, because he ' would have been killed, and when he (Lord Vivian) asked how ' he knew that, he answered that his successor was killed.— ' (Laughter.) He rejoiced that some progress was to be made in free trade, and he hoped they would not stop at where they now were. To borrow the language of a Noble Friend of his (Lord Palmerston) in the other House, the ground had been broken, the outworks' had been forced, and they would soon see the giant commerce set free. The Duke of CLEVELAND addressed their Lordships solely from a paramount sense of duty. He very much feared from the silent vote he had given last night, if he did not ex plain his views on the present occasion, his conduct would be liable to misconception. The total repeal of protecting duties he hoped he should never live to see. He did - not oppose the present Bill as regarded wheat, but he thoUght a very uncalled for reduction had been made of the'protection on oats.—( Hear hear.) If that large importation of wheat should take place which aas anticipated, he thought it would be most injurious, and the same observation would apply to barley. They must all bow to the aspect of affairs ; they all knew the great outcry which was raised for change, and with regard to wheat, if they must have made a change at all, he did not think they could hetet, made lc ss change ; and though he condemned the alterations on barley and oats, still, taking the measure as a whole, he considered it his duty to vote f the' second reading of the Bill, and he was most anxious that it should pass into a law. But notwithstanding all that bad been said, be was much staggered at the finality of this Bill.—( Hear.) He must say that he was a good deal astonished at what bad fallen from the Noble Earl, who said that nothing; could be considered a measure of finality excepting the laws of the Medes and Persians. He (the Duke of Cleveland) would vote for the present measure with a firm conviction that it would never be altered in his lifetime. With resrect to a fixed duty, he thought, as a measure of finance, it would be more productive than a sliding scale; but as a measure of protection, it would be totally ineffective; and therefore, whether it was a high duty or a low duty he should feel it his duty to oppnse it.—( Hear and Laughter. ) The Earl of RIPCN had only meant to say, that no law which might be passed could be considered umalterable, but that he hoped the present measure would not be speedily altered. He should have thought that the minister who brought forward the Reform Bill, and said thatit was a final measure, might very well have allowed this to be considered a final mea sure—( Hear)—and being convinced that it would be betty r far the country it it never should be changed, he was deter mined, that so far as it lay with him, never should be changed. The Earl of ROSEBERRY:opposed the Bill. It• must be utterly unsatisfactory to the farmers or the public at large. It was knosn that it could not last, and as a preparatory plan it was bad. He thought a fixed duty would be more satisfactoty than any other, because he thought the price would never rise to a ruinous amount—because it would put an end to speculation —because it would lessen the demand for bullion—and, there fore, keep the currency more regular, which was the cause of the i.eriodical distress of the country, and because the profits now made by th e specu l a ti on wou ld go to benefit the consumer. —(Hear, he ar .) If t h ey t h oug h t a fi xe d d u t y o f B s . too low-, they might l ay on a duty of IN. per quarter, and gradually lessen it every year by is. With respect to the proposed would d not ( t ion trouble o t f he their towns Lordsh at p sliding s ca l e h e o b jected to the " rests" in it, and tothe addition toip the e rese p n r t with ese his n umber. Ifs N‘u objec tion as to the medium point, but as to the resting point, he considered them wholly illusory ; he thought it was absurd to suppose that in the ascending scale it would be possible to stop at IBs., or in the descending scale at 65., when, at those very points, it would be' the interest of the speeulator, as well as clearly in his power, to run the duty up at one point, and to bring it down tio nothing from the lower. He had always been favourable to the impost of a fixed duty-on cora. He THE SUN. LONDON; WEDNTESDA MORNING, APRIL 20, 1842 thought it a . legitimate source of revenue, and desirable as a moderate protection to the agriculturist. Not one of their Lordships had stated what would be the ef fect of introducing these towns into the averages, and he con sidered that they were legislating quite in the dark on this übject. How could they legislate with c)rrectness on. this subject, when < he and all their Lordships were in total igno rance as to the effect of introducing these towns into the ave rages? t For these grounds he objected to this part of the proposition. lie admitted this Bill was a very considerable improvement on the old law, but it was not such a one as he wished to see; it would not cause a fair, wholesome, and legi. timate trade in. corn. It still left the idea of prohibitory du ties in the public mind, and the stigma of monopoly would still adhere to the agriculturists • without their receiving that ad. vantage which they had hitherto received. For these grounds he could not approve of the measure as a whole, and he should therefore vote for the amendment of his Noble Friend. The Marquis of SALISBURY said he congratulated his Noble Friend who had just sat down, that though he lid not so much approve of the Government measure as to be able to vote for it, yet that he considered it a great improvement upon the old law. He (the Marquis of Salisbury) considered that there were two grounds on which the Government should afford protection to the agriculturists; the first was the necessity of giving food to the people inde pendently of foreign nations, and the second was that that same protection should be given to agriculture as to every other branch of industry. The question he apprehended ought to be, the amount of protection which should be given to the home growers to enable them to compete with the foreigner. The average price of wheat under the old system was 565., it would be the same under the new ; and he considered that though by the proposed plan there would be a reduction of duty, there would not be a reduction of protection to agricul ture. He did not blame the Government for making their alterations in the Corn-laws; no doubt they arose from the great agitation which was raised on the question.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord, when in office, endeavoured by every means in his power, to raise this agitation on the question ; what motive he had for such a course it was not for him—( the Marquis of Salisbury) —to say, but he certainly had raised that agitation, in consequence of the agitation which wasraised, these itato in and alterations had been made. The Noble Earl no doubt thought that there would be a great reduction in the price; of bread by such an alteration, in that idea, how ever, he (the Marquis of Salsbury) could not concur. With re gard to a fixed duty, his opinion was that, put it high or put it low, it was no protection to agriculture : he saw no such fair way of affording protection to corn as by a graduated scale. Lord PORTMAN said he must confess that he differed ent.rely from the Noble Lord who had just sat down. He thought that this proposition by no means tended to settle this most important question. Ile believed it never could be settled tiel it was placed won a principle which should be clear ' and intelligible to all mankind.—( Hear.) The Noble Earl, the President of the Board of Trade, at the time when he was on the A gricultural Committee in 1821, told the agricultural interest that they were to expect a time when these things should be settled, and they must look to a fixed duty as the only settlement, which should be applied as soon as it could be applied with safety. He (Lord Portman) hail always been an advocate for a fixed duty, and he had always looked forward to the time when that should arrive, though he must confess that his expectations had been somewhat damped by what had fallen from the Noble Earl to-night ; yet he hoped that theNoblcEarl might, at some future time, be led to give way to the proposition of a fixed duty, as he did now to what he was pleased to term aeliminution in the sliding scale. From the Report which the Committee had issued in 1821, it appears that they had prophesied most cor rectly as to what would happen now, and if sa, why should we not follow the remedy they had pointed out ? That was a fixed duty.—( Hear.) The Noble Earl said he desired to protect the agriculturist and the consumer by taking away the temptations to commit fraud; but still the speculator had the inducement of 18s. to raise the price from 645. to 725. London ought to be added to the towns from which the averages were to be taken. When he was in the House of Commons, in 1827, he.moved a clause to that effect. The new Bill was bad, because it would unsettle everything between landlord aed tenant. No man could make a bargain under it, whatever the Noble Earl might say. If this Bill failed, it would be the complete extinction of the sliding scale. :low, then, could they propose a fixed duty ?—( Hear, hear.) How could they secure that preference which the English farmer ought, in the opinion of all classes, to have over the foreigner? This Bill would not atop the agitation in the Corn-laws which the Ministry had encouraged.—(( Hear, hear.) It would net strike down the enemy, but it c ould encourage them. He must most strenuously oppose the Bill.—( Hear, hear.) The Earl of WIN CHILSEA defended the Bill, as having the same principle of protection that all the former Corn-laws had had ; it would give greater protection to the landed interest than the present one had, for it would save them from the frauds of corn-factors. He should most strenuously oppose a fixed duty as a protection of the agriculturists, for when corn was low, it was no protection, and when it was high, it would not be maintained.—( " Question.") Lord MON TEA GLE would vote for the Bill, as a great improvement in the existing law, as discouraging frauds on the farmer, and diminishing duties on the consumers.—( Hear, hear.) But he agreed that it could not be considered as a final measure. The population of Great Britain had increased 8,200,000 souls since 1801. Where were we to proviSe for this vast accession ? Not at home, but in foreign coun tries. The population was increasing far beyond our means to feed them. This fact alone proved that the present Bill could not be final. But he was sure no practical man could defend the sliding scale. Not an experienced merchant of authority in the City of London would approve of it. In the whole of the tariff the principle of a sliding scale was not applied to any other article, and he wished to know how it could be de fended in its application to corn: He objected to the sliding scale on account of its absurdity, and the uncertainty in trade to which it gave rise. He also objected to it on the ground of the inequality of its pressure on America.—( Hear, hear, hear. ) He recollected, when Mr. Webster was in this coun try, that he said that the people of America had corn ready to pay those to whom they owed money in this country, if they took it from them.—( Hear. ) The introduc tion of sew towns showed that the system of a sliding scale was vicious, and that the viciousness of it w as perceived.—( Hear. ) He also objected to the Bill because it injured the persons whom it was intended to benefit. Bad, unjust legislation, was sore to react on those who sought it. It was of the greatest benefit to the agriculturists of this country that they could import dry and fresh wheat from abroad. The system of a sliding scale was also the cause of fluctuations in price, though he admitted the proposed Bill was, in that respect, an improvement on the pre sent law. But it would not only be the cause of fluctuation of price in this country, but even abroad. Dantzic would be dis turbed to a considerable extent Isy the operation of that sys tem. ( The Noble Lord here referred to the opinions of Mr. Tooke and Sir W. Curtis, to show that fluctuation was the natu ral consequence of the sliding system.) With respect to the amount of revenue which was expected from the proposed sys tem, he should like to hear the opinion of the Noble Lord (Ripon). The truth was, the Noble Lord put himself in , o a difficulty on the subject. He supposed the Noble Lord would not for the world receive 6d. of revenue from the food of the people.—( Laughter.) He remembered that last year the Noble Lord had said that the Corn-law could be maintained only on the principle of protection ; and that being the case, lie thought the Noble Earl was strangely uncommunicative as to the am: tint he expected to receive.—( Hear, hear.) The tact was, that every duty would be pro tanto productive ; but the system of a fixed duty would produce a greater amount of revenue than the system of a sliding scale. The Noble Earl had stated what were the opinions of the people on the subject ; but he (Lord Monteagle) differed with him on that subject. He thought the consumers generally won d prefer a fixed duty, with a considerable revenue, than a duty imposed solely on the ground of protection.—(Hear.) But it was said that a fixed duty could not be maintained in time of exigency. He re quested their Lordships' attention for a few minutes to this part of the question. He would assume an Bs. duty—a time of exi gency and high prices—and a clamour on the part of the people for the repeal of the duty. What, in that case, was to be done ? He (Lord Monteagle) would say, "Adhere to the duty," and for this reason, that the consumer would not derive any benefit if the duty were removed.—.(Cheers.) He would state in illus tration, that during the late distress in the neighbourhood of Glasgow there was a quantity of corn in bond in Glasgow, and could any person suppose that if the duty on corn were removed, it would sell for 20s. less. Was it not clear that the repeal of the duty would only put so much money into the pocket of the holder of corn, and be of no benefit whatever to the consumer?—( Hear, hear.) Precisely the same thing would occur if the holder of corn was a Dantzic merchant. Now that were the case, he should say that they ought to adhere to the duty. He would now advert to the effect of the sliding scale on the currency of the country, and if the proposition they sought to establish were carried, they would he liable to pe riodical derangements in the currency, which would affect the landed interest more than any other. —( Hear, hear.) The first authority he would refer to on thi, subject was that of the Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of her Majesty's Govern ' mont, a high authority, because ne would say there were few public men, and he spoke under correction he was aware, who could claim higher honour than the Right Hon. Gentleman for bringing forward, and afterwards defending the restoration of the currency. He made that declaration, however unpo pillar, because he believed it to be just. But in the year 1827 the Government of the day were pressed by the state of agri cultural distress, and on that occasion an attempt was made to obtain a higher protection for agriculture. On that occasion Sir R. Peel said that the return to the system of 1815 would be ' most likely to disturb the currency, that speculations would be indulged in which should be paid for in gold, and that it was a fallacy to suppose that, because corn was cheap is Dantzic, it would not be increased by the demand for gold. That doctrine was now reprobated. The case alluded to by the Right Hon. Gentleman now at the head of her Majesty's Government was the effect of a certain opening of the ports fot three months, the demand for foreign corn during those three months, and the necessity of paying for it in gold. He (Lord Monteagle) would show them what happened on the occasion referred to. He had moved for certain returns respecting the fluctuations of bullion in the Bank of England since the passing of the last Charter Act. He did not say that the want of bullion arose from the state of the Corn-laws---(the returns were only from the year 1834)—but it was a most curious fact that, with the excep tion of those years in which from the effects of ,the failures in America, and of joint-stock bank speculations, great disturb ance in the corn trade was contemporaneous with disturbance in the circuiation. In the year 1838 there was an introdus - tion of wheat and wheat flour to the amount of 1,300,000 quarters. At that period the highest amount of bullion in the Bank of England was 10,126,0001., and the lowest, at moat, was 9,350,0001. The next year the quantity of corn imported was 2.862,000 quarters. Then what became of the circulation ? The highest amount of gold that year in the Bank was 9,356,0001., but the lowest was 2,500,000/., corre sponding in amount to the whole quantity of corn imported. If he were to go through, merely as a matter of curiosity, the annals of those two years, 1838 and 1839, they would find that. they commenced at a rate of introduction of 5,200 quarters per month—(the maximum amount in September, 1838, being 5,620 quarters.) They began with an amount of ten millions of bullion, and at the close of that period they had only two millions to meet all the expenditure of the country—to pay . the army, navy, &c., &c. The non-coincidence of the American distress, and the demand for foreign corn, was one of those circumstances for which every British statesman, and merchant, and lover of his country, ought to make matter of daily and hourly congratulation. Had it occurred a few years previous to the time at which it had happened. and contemporane ously with the time that that state of the bullion to which he had adverted was prodeced by the fluctuating Corn-law, what might not have been the consequence ? They were only saved from the result ef such a concurrence by a miracle. As some one had said, France had come in to the support of the Bank of England, and had given them a glorious proof of their independence of foreign countries.---( Hear, hear, from the Opposition.) The Bank of England would have been obliged to stop payment. The consequence of such a cir cumstance, not merely speaking of national distress, would have been irreparable. It was said they were not like Indiana or Ohio, but if so, they had not to thank themselves for it. It was in spite of their bad legislation that they were not the first commercial country in the world, held up to tie scorn of all men, for haling themselves produced that distressing calamity. Imadverting to these matters, he only touched upon the boun dary--of the circle. He would take the•liberty of calling their Loidships' attention to one more passage. The document he was about to read might be objected to. It bore tha name of Mr. Samuel Lloyd and Mr. Senior. It was prepared long be fore the late Government scheme was thought of. He knew of hie own knowledge, Rea those persons were not aware of themeasureproposed by the late Government whenthey drew up .thisdoeument. They stated, adverting to the. improvement in the sliding'sCale, that, like the present law, it would, keep corn at an artificial price ; thit it must prevent any steadiness in the trade in corn ; that the system of the duty rising as the price fell, and falling as the price rose, was a monster in fiscal legis lation, reserved for the corn trade ; that such a measure would have been supposed to have been intended for the pur pose of excluding from the trade all men of capital and pi u dence, and draw gamblers into commerce. That was the judgment of practical men, given with respect to the Bill now on their Lordship? table, because it was given in general terms applicable to any such Bill. He had thought it neces sary to speak thus much on a question which involved the great commercial and financial interest of the country. The pro , perity of the land of England depended on commercial and manufac turing improvement, ard whet her they had done right or wrong in fostering up a great manufacturing populatio ~ and thereby getting the means of becoming a great and powerful people, or they still continued " Mild Arcadians ever blooming Nightly nodding o'er their crops," he did net moats to say. But they had ruled the destinies of Europe. They had sent out the Noble Duke opposite to pre serve the peace of Europe, and it was necessary that they should draw upon the resources, industry, and moral powers of the country, in order to achieve that mighty destiny for which England seemed to have been called into existence. His Noble Friend had stated that a change had taken place in his opinions. A change had also taken place ii his ( Lord Monteagle's opinions. They would never have quiet on this subject till the trade in corn was free as air. He would not de tain their Lornships further than to thank them for the manner in which they had attended to his observations. The LORD CHANCELLOR, having put the question, Lord BROUGHAM stated his approval of his Noble Friend's resolution, and meant to vote in favour of it. He looked upon the proposed sliding scale as an improvement on the existing law. and he looked open the Noble Lord's motion as a consider able improvement on the plan before the House. It was not easy for him to say whether he preferred an unknown fixed duty to an unknown sliding scale. If the fixed duty rose to 50s. or 605. per quarter, and the sliding scale sunk down among the pence and farthings, even retaining his views of a free trade, he should prefer such a sliding scale to a fixed duty of so high an amount ; but if his Noble Friend meant in his resolution a moderate fixed duty, and a sliding scale meant the present sliding scale, he should most undouht. edly prefer that fixed duty to such a sliding scale. He considered the advantages of his Noble Friend's proposition to be such, although not considerable, that they would justify him in voting for his Noble Friend, if he could not succeed in carrying the better proposition which he had submitted. Under the sliding scale, it was impossible for the foreign merchant and grower to calculate what the price would be of his corn when it came to this country. He had no means of ascertain ing what price he would receive here on carrying his corn over. The sliding scale apportioned the duty to the price, and the foreigner had no mean of ascertaining what the price would be, on which alone he had to speculate. Suppose the Bs. fixed duty were to be imposed, he would know exactly what the carrying his corn here would cost him. He had the price of the article, the cost of shipment and transport, and the fixed duty ; but he had, even under a fixed duty, no means of knowing what the price would be here. He would know the prize now as well under the sliding scale as under the fixed duty. He ( Lord B.) had already so often explained to their Lordships the reasons on which ho was opposed to any duty whatever upon the importation of corn, and he would confine himself to stating the reason why he should vote for a fixed duty instead of a sliding scale. He would vote for the former as the lesser evil. In any way it was a poll-tax which was eyially contributed to by him to whom it was nothing, and by him whose daily food was diminished by it. It was therefore a poll-tax of the worst kind. As a tax for revenue it was the worst that could be levied. It would depend upon the wind and the seasons. If there was an article which should be exempt from direct taxation, it was that of bread. One must be fatigued with arguing against the absur dity and injustice of such taxation, and apologising for so long detaining their Lordships, he concluded by repeating that, of the two evils, he preferred that of the fixed duty. The Mike of WELLINGTON said, that there could be no doubt, as an abstract position, that no duty ought to be laid on the food of the people.—( Opposition cheers.) As an abstract proposition, there could be no doubt of the truth of that; but the Noble Viscount opposite looked upon this question at they the (Ministry) did. The Noble Viscount said, he did not look upon this as a measure for introducing corn into the country but whether or not it was expediens to withdraw at once from agriculture that protection which, up to the present moment, it did enjoy. The Noble Viscount said, that he consid. red it right to continue the protection to agriculture, but that he thousbt the best mode of protecting actriculture was the mode which had been proposed by the Noble Lord and his colleagues during the last Session of Parliament. The Noble Viscount stated that. he preferred that plan to the Bill which had been introduced into the other House of Parliament by the Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of the Government, and had been submitted to their Lordships by his Noble Friend (the Earl of Ripon). The Noble Viscount looked at it very properly as a corn measure, and a measu'e for regulating and protecting the agriculture of the country. Another Noble Lord near him had considered it as a convenient measure. And the Noble Lord who was sitting at the table had, in his speech, argued the question on all grounds, financial as well as others. They had been in some degree replied to by his Noble and Learned Friend who had spoken lately ; but all the Noble Lords who had spoken in the early part of the debate, had considered merely what would be the best moths of giving to agriculture that de scription of protection which he (the Duke of W.) felt assured it was the general wish of the House and the country, with few exceptions, the Noble and Learned Lord being one of them, should be accounted to it. The Noble Lord at the table ( Earl Stan. hope) considered that corn ought to receive the same protec tion which hail always been accorded to it ; and he ( Earl Stanhepe) lamented the bringing forward of the present mea sure as likely to tend in its consequences to the loss of that protection. The question they had to consider was, what would be the best mode of giving protection to agriculture, and he (the Duke of Wellington) would confess hehad always consi dered the graduated scale as the best mode of giving protection. to the agriculture of the country. A sliding duty levied upon the importation of foreign corn, varying in amount according to the price of corn in the country at certain periods, such prices to be ascertained by averages, was, he thought, the best made of giving that protection to the agriculture of the coontry to which it was entitled. It was perfectly true that under the Act, which he now hoped was about to expire, great frauds had been practised in the taking of the averages, and possibly a scale of duties had given occasional facilities for the com mission of those frauds. There could be no doubt but that frauds had existed, and complaints had been made of instances of those frauds. Other complaints had also been made against that law, and for that reasen he (the Duke of Wellington) had con sented to the adoption of the proposition fur a new law on the subject. He hoped that as the law had been so framed as to obviate those objections which had been made to the manner of taking the averages, that they would be now honestly taken ; and as in framing the graduated scale of duties that scale had been improved r o as to avoid giving that facility for the coin. mission o! frauds, while at the same time it contained the pro. tection which had been hitherto given to agriculture, he hoped and expected that the effect of it would be to keep the price of grain in this country at the average price in which it was known to have been for the last 13 or 14 years since the passing of the law which was now about to expire. He meant that average price ac cording to which the tithe agreements had been made and con tracted throughout the country, and considering that thelse agree ments had been entered into under the sanction of Parliament and the Government, he thought it but just for the two sets of proprie tors who had entered into those agreements, that no great altera. tion should take place so as to change the foundation upon which those agreements had been made. He was of opinion that the Act of the 9th Geo. IV., had acted beneficially in attaining the objects that its proposers had had in view. The principle of the sliding scale had received the sanction of Parliament some years previous to the adoption of the law of the 9th of George the Fourth. During the Administration of Lord Liverpool that principle had been adopted ; it had received the sanction of the Administratiou of Mr. Canning, and it had been finally carried into effect by the law of the 9th of George the Fourth. That measure had acted beneficially, according to the views of those who proposed it, for preserving the price of corn at a steady rate from the period of its enactment nearly up to the present moment ; for, notwithstanding what had been stated by the Noble Lord who sat at the table (Lord Monteagle), he (the Duke of Wellington) contended that the price of corn had continued as steady in this country as it had been in any other part of the world. Of course there must have beets variations in the price of an article of which the quantity must vary according to the state of the seasons, and of which the value depended nearly upon the quantity. Or course the price must vary every year, but he (the Duke of Wellington) would say, that the variation in the price of Corn had been, during that pe riod, aslsmall in this country as in any other country in the world. The Noble Viscount had stated that he should be able to show that the variation in other parts of the world had been occasiontel by the variations her. But begging the Noble Viscount's pardon, he (the Duke of Wellington) was afraid that the Noble Viscount had stated that which he could not exactly prove. There were several parts of the world from which accounts of variation of prices had been given, which had no relation whatever to this country its regard_ to the trade in corn; for instance, France. There was no relation between this country and France with respect to cons, and there was very little between this country and Holland. The fact was, there was no relation whatever bttween the variations in the price of corn in this country, and the price of corn in many other parts of the world, therefore he said that the prices in this country were as steady in corn as in other parts of the world. Go where they would—r;o to the United States, the south of Russia and Prussia—go where they would they would find a variation in the prices ex ceeding those existing in this country. But whets the Noble Viscount thought proper to denounce the sliding scale as an absur. day, as it was only known to the corn trade—it might be an absurdity—the Noble Viscount might have very good reasons for saying so—hut begging the Noble Viscount's pardon, it had been always known in the corn trade in this country. There bad been a Corn.law in this country In the year 1793 or 1794. That was a Corn-law also depending on a graduated scale of duty, that duty depending on the prices ranging in the country. That was a law with respect to articles, the quantity, the quality, and the value of wheat depended on the state of the seasons. He said that a gra duated duty, according to the prices existing in the home market, was absolutely necessary, its order to be enabled really and truly to give protection to the country. Now the Noble Viscount oppo site, and the Noble Lords Ilho supported him, insisted that a fixed duty would answer the same purpose. He (the Duke of Welling ton) objected to a fixed duty on principle. A fixed duty was suffi cient protection, perhaps, but what he had always said on the sub. ject was, that a fixed duty could not be maintained at a time when prices became high.— (Hear.) He understood that recently, whets that question had been discussed its another place, a Noble Lord there admitted, that when prices came to a certain rate, it would be absolutely necessary io reduce the duty by degrees, He (the Duke of Wellington) said that a fixed duty—when the corn came to the maximum price of 705. or 725. a fixed duty was very much like a prohibition. He had had much experience in the affairs of this country, and he confessed that he should be very sorry to see similar circumstances in future to that which he had seen heretofore. On several occasions, notwith. standing that the law required that the ports should be continued closed until the prices came to a certain amount, he had known the Government be under the necessity of opening the store houses, and allowing the:corn therein stored and kept under lock and key, to be sold in the market (as those who administered the Government under a fixed duty would be under the necessity of doing), and of allowing the corn to come out of the stores without the payment of duty. When the price came to 70s. the Govern. ment would be under the necessity of doing that which he had seen the Government do heretofore, of opening the stores in order to set tree the corn which then remained for the payment of the duty. This would be the case—this must be the course pursued when the law should be under a system of a fixed duty, when prices rose to 70s. Now the advantage of the system of a graduated scale was, that the law executed itself. The prices were ascertained by the averages published in the Gazelle, and thelaw thereby executed itself; as the p. ices rose the duty came at last to nothing. The Governtnent need not interfere at all. The Noble Lord said that the consumer would gain nothing by the inter. ference of the Government—that the persons who would gain would be the proprietors of corn. That was exactly the case. The con sumer would gain nothing, but the proprietor of corn would. He was afraid that that fact was suspected with respect to the trans action to which he had referred as having taken place. During the period of the existence of the law, in 1815, it was suspected that large fortunes were made, and that the Government were par ties to this. Certainly there was no foundation for such suspicions ; but he said they ought to take care not to adopt such a system that would place the Government in the situation of being obliged to have recourse to such measures, and becoming liable to such unfounded suspicions. He, therefore, • said that a fixed duty became nugatory, and those interested in the portectien of agriculture and in maintaining the relations of this country as they stood with respect to landlord and tenant, he said that those who desired this, should nut expose themselves to disappointment by adopting a fixed duty. They bad heard of the interference of the Corn.laws with the corn ' merce of the country ; he had no reason to believe that they af- • fected the commerce at all. He was sure no man could lament more than he did that the commerce and manufactures of the coon try should be at all in a state of embarassment; but he believed if the Corn.laws were repealed to-morrow that not one yard of cloth or one pound of iron would be sold in any part of Europe, or of the world, over which this country could not exercise a control. Most of the nations of Europe had adopted treasures to encourage manufactures; these measures were not to be seejibLuteci, as some had said, to the English Corn-law, but they overeV,, he attributed to the example set by this country in tee course e f late war, by their great and nob'e exertions, by their power, awl the strength which they exhibited on all occasions. Those who contemplated those exertions, and who had been assisted by thaw, thought they might as well follow the example of our industiry and system of commerce ; and they did do so, and hare now establ seed for them selves manufactures and commerce, and he (the Duke of - W citing ton ) believed that we should find that where we had no control, do what we would we should not be able to purchase their corn by way of barter ; it was out of the question, except under special convention. With respect to the commerce and the manufactures of this country, he must say that if they were in the state which ap.. peered from the returns on the the table of the House, that there was nothing which could be more favourable to the system of the Corn.laws than the state in which those appeared to he. Since the year 1828, the period at which this law was enacted, the pro. duce of this country, the amount of the exports from this country, ascertained by the account of the official value, would show nearly four times the amount of preceding years. It was true that those individuals who produced these manufactures were in great dim. tress; and he had been much concerned at reading those reports of inquiry into the state of the handloom weavers, and also the reports of the conversation between a late Hon. and Noble Friend of his, and certain Gentlemen who were lately in this metropolis and con versing with him on the state of the manufactures in this country. But if any man read those reports, he would see clearly that the state of the manufactures might be attributed to anything except the Corn-laws. It was machinery which had come into com. petition with the individual manufacturers —machinery, the increase of whicn had reduced their manufactures. and not the price of corn, or the state of the Corn-laws. He did not blame machinery. He believed machinery had materially advanced the manufactures of this country, and had given them the state of the returns which he had mentioned just now; but we should not conceal from ourselves that in their progress they had reduced greatly the individual manufactures. — (Hear, hear)—and tl - at the improvements in machinery which were continuing daily, were one of the causes of the competition which existed, not only between one part of the country and another, and one town and another, but between the individuals in ear h town, rendering it difficult to find markets to take off all the merchandise and manufactures which were produced by this machinery.— (Hear, hear.) These countries, which were supposed to become rivals of this country, in consequence of the state of our corn laws, had found markets, it was true, but not in consequence of our corn laws, they had found markets in the South American States, near about the time that manufactures were established in Germany, Russia, and elsewhere. The South American States declared their independ ence ; this was recognized by this country and the United Stales, and immediately they did that, their ports were opened to the mer chandise of Germany, Russia, and the whole world, and thus it was that merchants were found for the productions of those coun tries. They had been taunted a good deal to-night in consequence of their determination to depend upon their own resources for pro. visions. He was one of those who had always contended that the agriculture of this country should be protected as far as possible, with a view to render us as nearly independent as we could be of supplies from foreign countries. He knew that in the state of our population increasing as it had been, and was in the course of every year, and increasing also in wealth, that it would be impossible for us, even if we could annihilate bad seasons, to have our agriculture kept in such a state of production as to maintain us altogether independent of foreign supplies.—(Hear, hear.) But he would beg of their Lordships not to lose tight of this object, not to lose sight of the necessity of maintaining the agriculture 'if this country in a state of prosperity. The Noble Viscount had compared our situation withof the Romans and the Athenians in farmer times ; but he (the Noble Duke) would beg the Noble Lord not to go quite so fer back, for they could find an example in our situation within a very few years. If he (the Noble Duke) mistook not, they had in the records of that House an instance of one Sovereign in Europe levying a duty on the export of corn to this country, purposely to cause the prices to rise here. He (the Noble Duke) would also beg of the-n to recollect the stale in which one great source of our supply—he meant Poland—was placed during the whole revolution in Europe. Let them recollect the state in which Poland was so late as 1830, during the insurrection of that year. Recollect that our supplies from that part of Europe must depend on the state of tranquility of those people residing on two or three of those large streams that run into the Baltic through those territories ; and that only last year, when this •country was in want of a supply of corn nearly at the same time supplies of corn were required in different parts of Russia, and that proclamations were issued by the Government of that country forbidding exports of any sort of corn from Russia. During a part of the year it was consequently impossible to get supplies from Russia. These cir cumstances he would beg of their Lordships to bear in mind in deciding on this question ; for we must not by any means suppose that we could at all times get from any part of the world what corn we might require. He did not mean to say, however, that we should depend solely on our own resources in this country. He knew that we could not go on at present without at least a supply of 1,000,000 of foreign quarters of corn every year, an amount that must certainly be increased hereafter.—(Hear, hear.) But still he must entreat their Lordships to provide for the prosperity of our agriculture, and to maintain it in the state in which it had been and was for the last fourteen years, for it would be most dangerous for us to rely entirely on the calculation or supplies from other parts of the world.—(Hear, hear.) There was only one topic more which he thought it necessary to advert to—that was the influence of the Corn-laws on the currency of this country. It was certainly true that when large sums of money were required to be exported from this country to pay for supplies of foreign corn at a period when the Bank was in difficulty, that that export must aggravate such a difficulty for the moment, but he believed it was yet to be proved that the Corn-laws had been the cause of any such inconvenience. Other circumstances had caused it ; but certainly the difficulty once existing would be aggravated by the necessity of sending large sums out of the country to pay for corn. But he believed such was not the case, for under the system of the gra duated scale corn was always in the course of being exported in consequence of the natural demand'of the home market, but that no failure of the harvest er other cause did require the transmission of large sums of specie abroad for corn.—(Hear.) The corn being introduced into the home market simply by the opening of the doors of magazines and storehouses, and it was paid for by the internal currency of the country. To replace-this, would - require unques_ tionably the transmission of laige sums of money, but this was done by degrees. There was no good gronnds for opposing a sliding scale. They should uphold it, if they meant to maintain the pro sperity of the agriculture of this country, as it had existed for the last fourteen years, and to maintain things in the state in which the Noble Viscount very properly desired to continue them. The Bill of his Noble Friend would effect this object, and according to it they ought to act. Under those circumstances, he recommended their Lordships to support the resolution of his Noble Friend, and to oppose that of the Noble Viscount.—(Hear, and Question.) The Marquis of LANSDOWNE would refer to the unanswerable speech of his Noble Friend, who had pursued this subject into all its ramifidations, but into which no one had attempted to follow him.—(Hear.). If that speech did not convince their Loreships of the fundamental vice of the present system, the principle of which the Government abandoned in the expiring law, but which, in the face of experience, they proposed to re-enact in the Bill proposed to the House—if that speech did not convince their Lordships of the utter inefficiency and mischief of a graduated scale, he (the Noble Marquis) well knew that no argu. ment of his could convince them; yet he wished to show their Lord. ships, in a few words, why lie must vote for the resolution of his Noble Friend, and why hemust oppose a proposition to do away at once with all duty on foreign corn.—(Hear.) He agreed that if the princiciple of free trade could be applied universally to all our produce and commodities, under a reform of our financial system, he should not fear for the fate of the agriculture of this country in competition with that of the rest of Europe. Let capital, invested in every kind of manufactures, agriculture in. eluded, he put under the system of free trade, and he would not object to the equal terms in the name of the farmer. But he (the Noble Marquis) would not allow it to he said that a man should cu_ gage his capital in agriculture without protection for whatever cause, while, at the same time, protection was afforded to capital invested in any other sort of undertaking and manufacture. , They ought to remove anything that interfered with capital, be cause if capital was protected in one case, he (Lord L.) should hail it one of the most fortunate circumstances that could take place in the country, if they could dispense with that system e hich would give relief to capital. He did not think that such an object would be attained by doing away with all duties on corn; and lie, therefore, could not vote for such a measure. His Noble Friend, the President of the Board of Trade, had stated, and a most sue. prising statement.it was, that on all articles that were not wanted the broad principles of commerce were adopted; that when they came to an article that was wanted most, then that principle was not to be adopted,but some ingenious experiment was to be devised. The late experiments of the Noble Duke upon the subject of corn had failed, and that failure had been admitted by the Noble Duke himself. When that measure was introduced by the Noble Duke, he stated that it would have the effect of maintaining the averages 1 at a more regular rate of price in England than in any country of Europe. Now he (Lord Lansdowne) wished to know on what authority the Noble Duke had made that statement, because he (Lord Lansdowne) had a statement made by Mr. Holahan, from which it clearly appeared that the averages, since the introduction of that measure, had been much greater I than had ever taken place at any former period. He was not surprised at the anxiety of the Noble Lords opposite, to get rid of that Bill. It had by common consent, after the vote or last night, been got rid of. It was admitted by that vote, that part of the measure was wrong; and yet, when he called upon the Noble Duke to make alterations in it, he refused to do so. But what was the course he was pursuing now ? Why, the Noble Duke was calling upon the House to do that which ought to have been done when he introduced his measure in 1839. Some Noble Lords were extremely confident as to the result of this measure; but after the failure of the principle of the Bill— (Hear, hear)—after one suit of clothes was changed for another without any of them fitting—after the failure of six Corn Bills in the course of half a century; did they expect that the present measure would be a final one ?—(Hear, hear.) If they did they should recollect that the same confidence existed with regard to all those Bills which had failed. There was to be a remunerating price. Foreign corn was to be excluded, but not one of those things followed.—(Cheers.) And if there was one proof stronger than another that this Bill was not to be a final settlement, that proof was to be found in the development of the Bill by the Noble Lord, and in the remarks of those who followed him, who showed the greatest conflict of opinion as to the effect of it.—(Cheers.) That might be a good reason for Its passing, but it was the contrary with regard to its operation, and if people of sense drew different conclusions with regard to the effect of the measure, let him ask If Noble Lords who studied the subject, who were pre. sidents of agricultural societies, who were engaged in agricul tural speculations, came to different conclusions on the subject, how were the farmers of England to be expected to tell what they could not tell ?—(Cheers.) Let it be remembered the object was to create confidence in the farmers with respect to the land— (Hear, hear)—and if those who were passing it did not know what were to be its effects, surely it was too much to expect that the farmers were lmplicitety to believe in the benefit of a slidy itsi iiseale. He therefore thought that if this cou ntr y was destined b posi tion, wealth, and.population—that population which was created and supported by machinery—to depend upon foreign countries, they ought to have a steady and regular supply of corn, and not that irregular and uncertain supply which, he believed, would be the effect of the present measure. He believed that connected with the revolutions of the corn trade had been some of the great- 1 ' est disasters which the country had suffered in its commerce. It was obvious that if they were to have any trade at all, they would obtain the returns as quickly and from as wide a range as possible. That could not be done wider the proposed Bill. In a measure which was coming up from the other House, there was a proposal to reduce the duty on meat. He thought that that proposal did great credit to the Noble Duke and the Right Hon. Baronet at the head elf the Government. But was not meat a part of the previ sions of the people, and it it were, why had they not applied the principle of the sliding scale to meat as well as corn ? (Hear, h ear .) He could not understand the ground of that distinction. Let them recollect that as to .prices, every little market in the kingdom had its own calculation. He remembered an observation of a celebrated person, Prince Talleyrand, an observation which struck him very much at the time. He said there was one person c'averer and wiser than the cleverest and the wisest man that eve: was known—than Newton, than Locke, or than Montesquieu...- that person was — Everybody!—(A laugh.) His opinion always prevailed against the opinion of any one who coped with him. So it would be with all these ingenious faliacies; they might find great applause in that House, but atter a certain time it would be sifted and examined, eluded, and finally defeated, and the country would not have the benefit of that regular supply which should be the object of any law their Lordships might pass on the subject. He had heard all the debates on this subject, and much had Leen said in all of them about a remunerating price. What that was lie never could understand. A remunerating :price to whom t o le the farmer au the clayey soil, on the chalk, or on tin flint ? To the farmer with large capital, with small capital, or with no , apital at all—for all these different contingencies were nattiral to their system of agriculture—and he defied them to lay dovrn.ani thing like a remunerating price secured by Act of Parliament., if there were any meaning in the term remunerating price, that could: only be secured to the grower of wheat in this countrf- b i ' the capacity of the rople to purchase it. It ' w4 :: by promoting that capacity, by supporting their manufactures. an"' securing them a fair vent to their produce, that they would seellre . to the agricultural capital of the country, that return which was the foundation of its prosperity. Let the people, by staccetarn i trade and commerce, be enabled to purchase, and all the remUlte• rating price they provided for by act of P.'rllament would .be ,n o "' necessary. Let them not be enabled to purchas e , and With.lb , # decline would fall away all the inefficient ud ineffectual clatrietlf, the Bill, all its rests and averages, by the connivance of they mainly hoped to create and to maintain a price whief Ordinary course of commerce would not allow them to maintain. This country never coal subsist on its own resources;' theit-11, pendence on foreign countries had never failed them in otnef articles, even in titre of war. At the present time, it was in the power of the United States, if they chose to sacrifice their aw n interest, by stopping the supply of cotton for one year, to create more disturbance, tumult, and confusion in this country, On a would be caused by the withholding all the supply of corn frontill er . continent y Europe for ten years. It was on principles of aogthe r nature on which they must rely; by adopting the principles of: Noble Friend, they would adopt the principles most reeotteilek E to sound trade. If they adopted the present Bill, though he i d milted it to be an improvement, yet they would adopt principlsW: w far unsound that they were at variance with the ordinary: n " ciples of commerce, and as such could not ultimately • Pr° . satisfactory. Tb Duke of WELLINGTON explained what he had statet.l le the debate of last year, as to what he thought the duty of Of Government, to interfere so as to prevent frauds in the averallen.„" Lord FITZGERALD said that at so late an hour he a 431 . ..7 1 not occupy their Lordships at any length. The Noble Lord tnen went into statements to show that a fixed duty would at some time keep out corn necessary for the sustenance of the people' and bring the country back to the state in which it was wheP there was a necessity for a bounty upon the importation or CO't With respect to the complaint made by the Americans ofthen inability to meet their engagements with the merchants alit country, on account of the Corn-laws, such a complaint came** a bad grace from those who had a Corn-law of their own, rnr - ,,.. 4/ ? / purpose of excluding Canadian wheat—wheat grown in au F. l /`?" province. As to Russia, seeing that we took a much larger PrO d f: tints of the produce of that country than we sent of manufacturri - r return, he doubted very much whether any increase in the ftnPli; tation into this country of Russian wheat, !Y u create an increase in our exports to that etl' i nt There was another remark which he wished to snake reladv7a; Russia. He had reason to believe, that if the corn trade country were wholly unrestricted we could not calculate on r ni e. ceuving, at least for the present, any large amount of cornlt e - Russia. He found that the Briiish Consul at Riga stated, was inclined to think, upon the whole, that a reduction in the" . ; upon the importation of wheat into this country would l'l c t some, but, for years at least, no very material increase in thetlt - i; tity of wheat grown in Russia, and available for importation England. The Noble Marquis (the Marquis of Lansdowne) b said that his Noble Friend (the Noble Duke) had stated, 1441 1, sufficient authority, that the variations in the price of wher',. this country, had been less than in other countries, in whieh had been no Corn-law. Now, it appeared from a paper lag, order upon the table of the House of Commons, that fronk!T o year 1829 to the year 1839, the prices at wheat had vatiO__.,, t ' England less than in Dantzic, and the variations in Rotterdatarr almost as great as in England. ..ce P eg The Marquis of CLAN RICARDE—Was that a differen • cent ? 1 - 0 1 Lord FITZGERALD said that he found it was al He found that the return was a fallacy ; but as it had been lied 7 0 fore the House of Commons by the late Government, he 110 P ed would be pardoned for the respect he had paid to it. rent ri The Marquis of CLANRICARDE asked whether the* had not been presented on a ruction by Sir C. Lemon, and it was not a fact that the Government had not sounded any's?'" upon it ? laft ' Lord FITZGERALD admitted that that might be so; thought he had some reason to complain of the inter:7 l ,r a , of his Noble Friend, to whom he was not then rePrl,e He would keep his promise of not protracting the debate, !late could not avoid alluding to the observations made by the or Marquis, respecting the application of the sliding scale to the One reason was that cattle and other articles of the tariff we e d) subject to the variations of the season, and he (Lord Fitag:Mise should like to see bow the Noble Marquis would P7r b sd to apply a tariff.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Marqttii , pe commented on the absurdity of defining what shon l 4:jail a remunerating price, but th..t argument bore quite as- ,a against theadvocates of a fixed duty as against the adfocale. sliding scale. It was an argument against any protection w#rf and he did not believe that the Noble Marquis would wish 5..°.•, -t it to that extent. Lord MONTEAGLE explained. ibe • After a few words from the Marquis of Ctasitticatunt Earl of HARDW ICICE, Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the KOlr' , / vided, when there appeared— • ,',l.•;'• For Lord Melbourne's Motion Against it ..... „.. 207 Majority against the Motion During our absence from the gallery, the House again 41 , c ; 0 on Lord Brougham's amendment, when there appeared- -. .,- For the Amendment ..... Y " Against it 6 • Ail' Majority against the Amendment On re.entering the gallery, we found Oa" Lord BROUGHAM upon his legs, who was mayn't n,...rer tion declaratory of the inipolicy of placing any restriction wn;soli upon the importation of foreign corn. He said t h a t be• j Ar i ef rather have their votes than their eloquence, and conn4l7, moving tile amendment, of which he had given notice. i t ,i The question was then put from the Woolsack, and at.FiVhjet were ordered to withdraw, and the House divided. wbaa appeared— • 1, Of; For the resolution .................................... Fur the amendment .................................. 9 7. Majority in favour of the resolution ••• ••••• The Bill then went through Committee, and the House journed at a Quarter past Two o'clock till Thursday. to HOUSE OF COMMONS. April.l9. iP The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual houe- 1 Me. P. PaYSE to',IC the oaths and his seat, rie'at ber fin- the Borough of Cardigan, for which .a• Committee had declared that he had been duly retSel Mr. A. LEFRoy took the oaths and his see'L, 4 o l Member for the county of Longford,. in the Oaf Mr. Luke White, whom the decision of the Select' 1 mittee had unseated. ..e.i KINGSCLERE INCLOSURE BILL , ' t ivev Mr. LABOUC HERE having brought up the . on this Bill, moved that the Report be adopted. ' tt 'el r Mr. GODSON rose to move that the Bill en recommitted, for the purpose of having certain ?JAI added to it. The Hun. Member complained 500: clause of the Bill which required that cottage s letle: be di•:turbed in the possession of their cottages the they had for more than twenty years possesneir The Hon. Gentlemen suggested some clauses el el f !, cottagers which, unless the promoters of the 13 0 iege7 t sented to introduce, he would oppose the Bill, ag e , fo o 6 • moved its re-committal to give an opportunity e e' . introduction. ' - ,1' .: Mr. BROTHERTON seconded the motion. :l The question having been put. . • • "Ab e • .... e t to h ie Sir W. HEATHCOTE said, that with regse - oetel e clauses he scarcely differed from the fl e ll - Gentleman, but he did not agree with hint - 1 5 1 4,•fr a nectssity of drawing a distinction as to - .00 ; when encroachments should be made. It witsl l e eel;t in the law, that those encroachments should•h4die d, and wrong doers should have no advantage, 0°1; 0 0_ r. the law allowed them. A great number of le h r j e; et' s° tents was in favour of the Bill, as to its g ene .. to ciple ; and he should, therefore, oppose the ale'ft# Mr. BRO MERTON said that the Illousir i 5 4 1 throw its shield over the poor people who W r . affected by this Bill. In the bear 1834 it w'r.' it that these cottagers would be much ittjureda.: le t closure Bid, and in 1836 it was ahendo ;de to could be easily shown why agents and consist,' ..opofir employed, as they were not able' to procuttfW oppose the Bill. He should, therefore, WWI, hil l on tin of the lion. '"' Member. , eP i , 'itti r " Mr. LABOUCHERE said, that as he- .1' eO en the Committee on this Bill, he wished to saY lv etw",„re on the subject. lie would only saw that-ho "it elerstand Gentlemen having objection: 'NOP' .40 altogether, but he thought if the principleeS ue ,oo,,• •• o at all it ought in this case .• This was -nert' t eie d ,j" - of densely pei:pled country, a great town.• 1,11 ; 4) 4 07 0 common composed of good land, perfectli t elPel ' being cultivated, and he had no doubt ths t e,tor k e dt' of the poorer elasse•s would be consulted he i i o sofr„tlf tivating this common. This was his ground fa pesn to ing the Bill. People had been in the habit , ,°„ to peo ti ice encroaching on this common, and this BO' r fio astil, gh give them a legal right to do sc.. He did not P r e () ;‘,.eSil l ed any right from them.—(Hear.) At p ees 00 / people had encroached, the Lord of the . ,' pet power to eject them at any time. .„.; is ' hert e a ot Lord G. SOMERSET said if the Hon•Tb e eonir to press it to a division, he must soy t hat t hat SP: v er agree with his proposition. He foun,„ i nit.loa cumstances had been investigated by a cov r t he co s 3E - the fectly competent to decide on the merits ° s on. • y erc that they had come to a finite deteceft4 14 0 ° s. t t he unanimous decision of Committees of 1 1%0007; to be over-ruled, he did not see how thy :; toe to House was to be carried on. of tbathe Mr. FIELDEN said it was the duty _7,1 protect the weak against the strong- . -. e , Bill should be re-committed. were" ae -, The House divided. The number s .. I"„ •'' For receiving the Report. .................. •L'oeti For the amendment ......................... -----' • ' . Majority ..................... . a • gree d to, • ;,* The Report was then broughttlll„anelOS. s Cour. BLACKBURN EL•bv - ; 0 ;61 s s eil dairti t The following Members were aPP e e - ros entet'A t tote mittee to try the merits of the pett it7rrin the return for the Borough of Blst in i v iTee. C° re l iP i bs i ti e t° an ii : Mr. J. Rundell, Mr. W. CriPPIH r E. Har e i'LL• E. Brooke, Lord Worsley, no,"„ S le olENr -,-- .„,,,a • so UTHWARK INIFi w The Southwark Impro hse i°ll third time. c to a fford thee°loeDig, Mr. PALMER moved a c l a use 0.1i.. ,. d by to the lessees of certain propertyotittor Mr. LITTON seconded these"', be brought 11 1 3, ,,,.,, i ,e 5 ' On the motion that the c l out' ~;1r t h o ught e tl 3 , .: ee e to 'o ll b ll ' j • t* h Lord GRANVILLE S , ortfLTICO ,or te ea t i oue l , Lion was one of too great ilaetily. It mieho rittriit he called upon to decide on i c t h leases, and he t h h e l it ee vernent Bill (No, 2) wits the whole question of Chin win tett hefi' re A t t herit be : least the clause ought to be j t. H e shettt“ r ot& came to a decision on the sub that the debate be adj • ' be c l , of t Noble Lord. re to propose, in order to give time proposed by the Nob _,, 41 h e highly aPPr. °- od Mr. AGLIONBY, ehnolle, Noble Lord d i s t " Iv° 11r Mr. R. PALMER with the • O f the 0 clause, yet agreed 1 further consideration _ __ batter to postpone the the House by surprise. thDere,7l,l I oe:t'hhiasvdeaetclatigsehli-'Ol co -- on. attention :to - the • .! t i t _ t o a b r j o e n e e t ttostti: t p h is s t o p ab oi.. ocitoop that he had directed his ject, so as not to take Church lease: , , and lie glad to hear the Right(dlll(ll.j.i:) the Hon. Member for 8c,M. 0 to proved of the clause o . was calculated - to' ( 10 47 0 th i because he thought it inflicting any hardline_ propose some measur.f: •tt private partiee, without • ' 1 . W I'l trusted the Governmellit2 air public. cons idering the Motioti ',.... rou:ettle the question.h• :10., Sir R. INGLIS , co • i Monmenth)-1113•7,f die Noble Friend (the w made, because the propositions 11C week upon this subj4 e , CI:loljtYt1 tn°,,t•conoeebtliefotsCroefilntt' ni,... "lir. Pale slawr i Itr. td ep , motiui Aft