The Sun. — London, England, 1820-06-27 00:00:00

It:Mit the Noble LI) d (Castlereagh ) i )i 3 O : ri t i l a bl aln S e Ta t : t owable c h ange. H e h a d to felic i t at e the country, and herself, I one unanimous voice, I)—After saying that w) se h c a r t e l t 4e t c t l i a a r l eti sh t i v o i t t l ,h l Ito) take place.=(Hear,he ar rds in reply to some I bis, be would say a feww°Lord. And he must observations of the Nobl e begi n b y s c at i ttg , t h at alt houg h it had been his lot ° nen to admire the great tale nts . a II that night had an and tactics of the Noble Lord, he had never o tt their full extent his °Plortunity of knowing_ for • now he I t o sophistry ; tnbtlety, dextelitY, 2111 . a It'atld have it appear, Ib.slrptehelyvaswee:cehtaorggeo, into' the inquiry, not beeau . se ther e not in complian . ce fur the purposes of J'as t i 'nob the Message from the . Crown, n deference to some. nor the voice f the Country, nor even ber.ruling St ate necess ity, th at . to go 11)10 the inquiry ; they were now IL do so Satertlay her Majesty but ' s i ttn ly because last `tie Queen reettiestet,tlreyihsabtosuhel defied I Saturda y ,1 ...eteen had said las, . t on Parliament 1 11 open inquiry, was that the and put herself and the Public for her trial , ? H a d she not b rit time that she had sosN'',/ileesaer4d,4,e,ftotitiehart,rnonse _, l ated it as drolly in her !Ile very first day she ha d I n g s against her i—Why then a.eird R . bad o. :N e c p t e r i e l i r e i l i t e , ...1_ fortnight or three ,reeks r. ?qu_l, li her request ? A trtililaayg,ohtandepQerie'emepncoirlialdy ested, had cha ll enge d , . un ; but t h e Noble ''"nand.ed an open i"estigalt Something, h o refused hail refused the challen ge- eever, had 'happened . 1 1:: had change w found . n othe Noble bl , e ti rd's determination. 1 deeently be put _ 11 th at a Clieett could apt all, the I - loose bllna leer trial by r,tre told 1 ma a d e su e b a i s Y c , t an d; bee:use her iMajestY which the Noble 1 4 aqted to be tried, a reques t eq.!' cult!!! nbt in trallatot•y or (Il ea et politeness !elf:encl.:7,d hter.)—Otte" as N b , e reuse.-- ha r h ear, an d laug hter.)--Utters dexterity of the .t. o i L itt ; )e easion to notice t So mat ked anti signal , a f 43 ' t 11,, Its had never . I seen n s in the management , the e" " of his • Powers r t a t e e n could have nothing 1,, P.reseht•case. '[tie • eel . - ~. ir„. She bad coo st:",4l ft!r• but a public 10 i i " .tr an d by its re :4l4 and ardently eon."" 1 1 r fall— VII 1 ' . ttl ter Majesty was prepare d . to 'stan d o ? e t' , I e• I bear f)—The gu li e ne e c n l: l alked o f t r i b t i, b . y . outlet that : t i , 4'N übleLLo'rdwas * most VII House to. perceive i l out yet enabled the ,1 on t h os , o f another P h la . ll e r . l_ ce ( e f f i l l e n !: must bee r , de h p e e a n r i t) The Noble tike Lord ti, -Id ' Maj esty was • • first .141 observed, that her 2 ' ti ck who bad turned a deaf ear to the el t . a , d when y i h ill d etermination of Parliament i ati Ne i a d stated that determination to have been night h ave said by , Pted n y 391 Members, h e they di,- ;„ e !_llt 5 00, for upwards ad o f 450, thoug h . t o f the Resolutious, n Nv e4 r 4 P tste r : v ti.r e e d d eilf. itsarse e m p al a t n r - o, hi e r e ,: c c .. ; l y ' I d t ar opinion,n e main object iha )Vat e , t ; f4 e Solemn a " no ; ate as they ti , 'e proceetiings term.n of th e might, they l►e dignity r. -41 11 b ~ derogatory he ' ll I i- '-' o f the t - a rn i 4 h e i andnuriottsto toe best interests b‘.4,1,,t0ry... The Noble Lo rd attempted to do iefttadthe bearing of that vo t re )r , e b e y l.b s e ayi inquiry upon that the It. I of her Alaje'ty I"ttst coul d ha ve no objection, I tZl 4 "se• The Queen h• flt (Mr. B ) as her Counsel, could ß have no i it was the il ‘' t,', / : el ion to f() itilt) the inquiry. u- r Oil 1442 4 o_ l the House to pas t ose ni t u o t ti o o n ne wh in i o ci t i ne h i e i bed iiisexpiessoins in their 1-e' the iuq'tiry , in )It iha l4 ,,„ e d• They had said tha t tiitisthave tq q , -41 v se it might terminate , o ! e rr .. Vietlees deweatory from tbe dig 1 ,t ‘, l l l e e " - `v!! hu t • • - E t e best iaterests of the trstut,. -!• injurious to --I- ~,.. „„ the asto s! 41 14 Il i , N o bl e Lord hifiliiit .". whole , !Mem of i . (AI r. ), of the I ql 'Se "Illseir ' tt . l. : -. been the rst to first tars; t, w tbe Coun t) ha" thus condemn- Resolution; le t i i t i _ l v iaiiag that inquiry Which „ n toe clear e st te rms the very . , t (tad N. „f following the usual tmitte.► looted. Instea d . his motion, kt burl , and asking leave to withdraw step aside sati, thotiglit i t an easier mode 1, 01, t , ° g e t rid of it, by declaring it tot be deroga- IV," .° Ihe Crown, and injurious to the , State.— be re itailettier tiles situated, the Hotise shoo a . p he %I q t i d Li t ° say that the inquiry was necess e at y - event li„, (l `‘'t not p ret ,n d to say ; but only 0n Al ; e 'er been urged to justify its t:•, : '''''Y had com e to Eloglind, necessity. Heran a nd and the nce, . _ O l '4 l : ct '''iy, arose that painful necess ity, iN litedriigruutol had ev er b een even pretended ; but h, t si, had inquiry must com e,'lnc - come over the (3 1' i t . hether her Majesty had been wisely t° n ll'v.' ' ol y advised, he should not now stop t r o . tti e : 111 " ; be should only add his solemn a,su ‘l "e i a t " h , e gave it, not to exculpate any one fr o 4 e -I° euar ge had been made--not to s h ri nk n Il i ', 4 responsibility, which he should viish herci t tlai "nfr arY to assume, but for the sake of terijitelsfY's character, to which he deemed itm b a e - Ra‘v e 1 ; 1 ° 11 the whole truth should ' he know n,_ e. ut, p er clew!) assurance to the House, that b .. tle rati o er I‘l './eaty had beets laid all those const . Isiset.s-111 Which the knowledge which her a d s bad e t Pn br e ; , s sed of the proceedings of Parlianteu ut trin: l , - 1 ' t hem to suggest. The state of the case b *liat'•-"e negotiations had been compared wit h tillov. It sii W as before and had since become, and in he --. every fact had been 'aged to establis h it bse r li f lin d that convictioir, which had never been hte h.t 4°lll it, that the refusal of the proposition , 11 111 • nted by the House must lead to certain an d 1 li'vestigation. With all these considerations before L f. - Lier. her NI • that fearlessness of -tit h • - 7- i ajtSty, with ee ° -t'on which nothing but the conviction of of b e ; "lee has- ever been known in the records e„,,.!slor y ctittoerate, tailritillttßipire, pronounced her own firm, un daunted conclusion to abide by I ) . ti ema n d tin . a • . • m ig ht have en rite public trial. Sh e Int, tly ~.. e fir,t Brtinswick who had refused to corn tit,tt the wishes of Parliament ; but let the tri l l; also recollect, that she had also been the taf,Q, r.nnswirk, the fi rst Queen of England, nay, ktithuristendoin itself, who had been placed in 1 4 ca situation. Addiesses had been carried to ti. "et e'f other Ike ° e• TI Queens, but tar di ff erent in their .1% ley had been Addresses of Congratu fr 1 1' yir-01 indolence,Co or at moat had prayed Il "e ternor If favourite. But i t le Q a some unwort hy i l r, t ;: t e t h had felt that this Address called upon 4 .! t . 0 g lue hp the object of mere capileer 44 tj:.:llsnliss all regard fur tier own honour.--She I ‘',in tt j, t t she cotild not make tile sacri fi ce required 1,1%14.0'11!Iso not her character. He men htl• ,N 1 14 in mitigation if eot in vindicatioo 01 ',lt 4 i e st's e I i the recom .liti„t. e usa to comply with lu n of Purliacrieut. That House which inlomt way been re; uisea by net Majesty; and in some measure offended, would in the Coarse of a few short days become her Judges. If he had before in -whited lion. Members dismiss all party feelings, he now still inure urgently and peremptorily entreated them to dismiss every feel ing of offence.—(llear, hear, hear chiefly from the Ministerial side.)-- , -It seemed that the Noble Lord -- intended to propose in his' motion some measure of a Legiilative nature to meet the inquiries of the other House. Ou this ground he should lay a claim to delay in behalf of her Majesty. Let not the House draw from this an erroneous conclusion. He should not have ventured to make such a proposal, had not the reasons for such a claim been most just and satisfactory.— The Queen was anxious to proceed, ,and for her and on fits own account, he shoUld de precate all delay ; but one was rendered ne cessary by local distance. It was a journey of three weeks to the place of her Majesty's re sidence, and three weeks back to bring the witnesses and evidence necessary for her de fence. Should the House, therefore, proceed 'on Thursday se'n might with the inquiry, how would her Majesty be in a condition to meet it ? Fite or six witnesses on the side of 'inculpation might be examined, and all on that side of the case would be over. If this partial inquiry were open, all the country would see its nature. If it were secret it would be still worse ; for a secret intrusted to 21 Members in one House and 15 in another, according to the common adage, had little chance of being kept. How would any man like the honour of his wile or daughter to depend on the secrecy of thirty-six Gentlemen who had wives and daughters of their own, even should they be the most honourable men )—(Hear, hear, and laughter.)—lt would be impossible that smite portion of the evidence adduced should' not leak out of those orifices for emitting secrets which were found in every farnily.—(Lang' hter.)—That evidence would issue nut more or - less, but its venom would cirCulate folly through tire country. Let any man place himself in the position of her Majesty—let him figure to himself the inevitable tuin of character which•tnest ensue from this in• terval of three or four months before the exculpa tory evidence for her Majesty be produced. He therefore laid a claim to delay ; but „let him not be misunderstood ;, it was -a delay which would not retard tor one hour the ultimate result. It would only allow the two pars of the inquiry to come nearer together, so that no pqrtion of the evidence should.be divnlgLd until witnesses were at bend to enable her Majesty's Counsel to cross examine, and to proceed with the trial. He (lust e d- the House would excuse his entering into tticse explanations : he had been desirous to sbew that the delay was- not one of judgment, bu s t, one of injustice, and was essentially necessary kite case. He called upon every Hon. Gentleman to lay to heart the last observations which he bad submitted to the House- They might opt strike at once, but their effect would be more deeply felt the more time was allowed for their consideration. He now congratulated her Majtsty, the House, and the Country, on an open'and public inquiry having at last been granted. The Queen had never been afraid of meeting such ao investiga• tion, but front the beginning of the proceedings had never ceased to claim and demand it. ' • Colonel PALMER had voted against the late Re solution, because he thought that it called upon her Majesty to do that which he would not have done himself in her place ; he now conceived that consistently with that Resolution, it was the duty of the House to desist from the proposed inquiry. He disapproved of tl►e omission of her Majesty's name in the Liturgy, and considered it, nut only as an insult to the'Queen, but as a serious charge against Ministers, at a time when-they spoke so much of the prevalence of revolutionary opinions. He declared that the speech - of the Right Hots. Gentleman opposite (Nir. Canning) had produced a still deeper impression upon his mind of her Ma jesty's innocence titan the convincing arguments used by the. Hon. and Learned Gentleman who appeared in the character of her advocate. For how could he resist the representations which fell from one of the J.inisters of the Crown, and one of her Males. y's accusers ; had be not said that she was the grace, the charm, and The ornament of society ? Had he not told the House repeatedly of his refpeet, esteem, admiration, and affection for the - Queen ? If she deserved such a character tulma So excellent a judge, when she was still in the fervour of youth, he could not believe that in her age she could have . done any thing to for feit it. Bat why, instead of talking of his feelings for her Majesty, had he not • acted upon them ? Ile would then have performed his duty mote ef fectually both to his Sovereign and to her Ma jesty. If it were possible - for the Crown to ob tain a divorce, he might consent to an inquiry into the present charges. It it was in fact an inves tigation called for by the whole country, as in the . case of the Duke of York, it would be strenuously opposed; hut the whole country rue's against it, and tt►erefore it was to be forcibly carried into effect. Mr. BATI-JVRST defended the .conduct of his Majesty's Ministers through the whole of the pre sent unfortunate business. He cootentied.against the possibility of not taking some ulterior pro ceeding, and stated that if a Bill should be intro duced, sufEcient time would be given to the par-. ties to prepare 'for detence ; so that when the case ot..the prosecution should close, that of the defendant should immediately continence. Mr. WesTeaN entered his protest against the' motion of the Noble Lord, because he conceived that its effect was to draw the House, directly or indirectly, into an approbation of thole measures,' :sod into an inquiry which the , v hole country con demned—(lHear, hear, hear !)—and which the general sense of the House on the first night of the d►scussion had also decidedly condemned too. Why had the whole country expressed an opinion that the proposed inquiry was one wl►ich ought not to be gone into ? Becanie the Noble Lord, atter having represented the charges as of a cri minal nature, had declared that they were ca pable of being negotiated aud.settled by an atni. cable adjustment.—(Hear, hear, hear !)—This was a proceeding altogether anomalous ; there was no case of a similar nature. He believed that op to the present moment the decision of the House had been correct and right, and had pro cLeded on a principle of justice towards the Illus 'onduct had I)eri pugned. NOW that the bripe of an amicable md justment had ceased•tO eiciSt, the question of ad jorirnment assumed a different Shape, becinse it tended td•Sanction the proceeding of inquiry al• togeThe'r, ikrhibh the' llooSe had originally con demned. He entreated the House not to involve itself in the proceeding 4 which Might be adopted in another place.—(iiear i)=-It had hithero done its duty—let it not commit its character ; let the Noble Lord bring forward hew projects, and let - him - give time to the House to consider them. With this view, he should Move, in arneiidment ro the proposal of the Noble Lord, that the debate be adjourned to this day six months. The question having been put, Mr. S. C:WHITBREAD rose on the present bcca sion to protest agaiust the measures which his Majesty's Ministers had pursued since the arrival of . liar M a j es ty i n t hi s co u nt r y, an d p art i cu la r ly against that propbsed this night, as it appeared an endeavour to delude the House into some approl)ation of their proceedings.—([leer, hear, hear !)—lie had opposed the late Resolution, because, if reduced into plain words, it was no thing but a call on her Majesty to acknowledge herself guilty. Mr. TIERNEY said, the Noble Lord appeared to be in a more awkward situation than that in which he had been placed on a 'former occasion. He came forward apparently with the assumplion, that whatever he pioposed for adoption would be agreed io, and thus an end would, for the present, be put to the proceesliog. He hoped he would find himself mistaken on the present occasion, as the subject was one of the must important that Could be conceived, and affected must nearly the honour, character, and dignity of that House. It was necessary, before be proceeded further, that he should correct a mistake into which the Noble Lard appeared to have fallen with respect to him. Th'e Noble Lord deprecated the introduction of party feeling into the discussion of this question ; but he would have carried that feeling into his (Mr. Tierney's) quarters, if it had pot been for a casual shake of his head, which the Noble Lord had utterly misunderstood. He (Mr. Tierney) was at the time talking to an Hon. Member on the subject of the former night's debate, but he was not saying a word about the resolution which. had been proposed on that occasion. He happer,ed to shake his bead just as -the Noble Lord adverted to that resolution, when his Lordship immediately turned round, and complimented him for having abandoned all that he had advanced on a former' evening. But that shake of the head was not meant to imply any such change of opinion, NVhat he formerly stated distinctly, and what he would now repeat, was, that the latter words in the Resolution proposed by the lion. Member for 111-amber were the most extraordinary that any Min-ister, standing in the situation of the Noble Lord, ever agreed to. 'Because that portion of the - Resolution declared, in clear terms, that the proposition brought down by the Noble Lord must lead to discus sions, which, whatever migla be their ul'imate result, could not but be dis,tressiug to her Ma jes'y's feelings, disappointing to the hopes of Pat liament, derogatory from the dignity of the Crown, .and injurious to the best interests of the En-spite. Now, if these - wank," derogatory front the dignity of the Clown" meant any thing, they could only mean this, that whatever charge was in troduced, it must lead to discossions . that must have. the pernicioosaendency thus described. He asked of the :\ i .oble\Lord what was the view with which that Resolution was brought forward ? Was it meant that the charges disclosed against the Queen should be dropped because they were dishonour able to her Majesty ? or on account of the dig eat which was held out by his Learned Friend, in the course of his'eloquent defence of her Majesty, when he called on Ministers " to beware of recri mination, because if go on, her Majesty will go on too ?" He had asked these questions for information, but he was not fortunate enough to obtain it. The words which he had quoted did then strike him as being of the utmost im portance'. lie continued to .be of the same opinion still, and sure he was, that if the Noble Lord had seen those words, before the mo tion was intioduced, his good sense would have led him to devise some means by which they might be got rid of, . This expression absolutely defied Parliament to go on with • any inquiry. It was impossible to state in language more clear, decided, anti significant, that the measure proposed by . the Noble Lord must end in discussions '' derogatory from the Crown, and injurious to the best inte rests of the Empire." He felt, at the time, that those who voted for that Resolution bad ' determined, its their own minds, not to go on with the business. Ministers scented to have taken care that the patties who voted for the Resolution should not be brought to the test, since they were likely to be absolved from all danger, by the proceedings that were about to be adopted in another place. if the business were brought on •therc, the House of Commons would undoubtedly be treed from it. This cer tainly was . one of the most/ important questions that was ever brought before Parliament, as it re.- lated to the dignity and propriety . of their pro ceedings. His Hon. Friend (Mr.. cVestern) had ably. stated the delicate situation in which the, House was placed -4 statement that was calcu lated to stake the greater impression, backed as it was by that independence of character which belonged to him. He said, most properly,. that the House ought to pause before they. deter mined to adopt any measure. It was too much for the Noble Lord to come down, and,, without any notice, state to the House, atterhaving placed them, the King, and the Queen, in. the must dif ficult situation, what course be deemed it proper to pursue. By some this was considered vary clever and ingenious. But it was, in fact, oniy making a haze, through which it was almost im possible tor ahem to see their way--a practice Ire quently resorted loin deba . te, especially by the Noble Lord. After a lapse of 3 weeks, the Nook Lord told them on Saturday that the matter in debase.ninst come to a conclusion this day. The Noble Lord was asked,whether he would give any information as to what he want to du ? This be ,declined, and, he believed for the best of ail possible reasons, be cause be did not know himself of bat cvlose lte ' trust pnrsne ; he could not, at the moment, tell how he ‘l , tis to get off.--(A laugh.)—Nov! the Noble Lord stid," Let the debate be ad:pot-Ned to Friday se'nnig!,t, because,, on the preceding Thursday, I Mean to make a motion quite dif ferent twin -any former, proposition ; but you must not be too sure that I will make it, hecanie a motion may be submitted elsewhere on the sub ject, which may render mine unnecessary." So that they were, on.these two contingencks, to stay proceedings that had been introduced to heir notice a considerable time htck. Would the House eodore such treatment, without sOITIC explana t ion being offered an the part of the Noble Lord ? The House, he felt, would degrade itself, if it did not plainly mark its sense of the Coarse that had been pursued. Neither he nor his Hon. Friend (Mr, Western) knew .el 4 how to pt:oceed r , under all the circumstances of the case ; but he conceived there ought to be an entry on the Journals of the House, explaining the reasons. which caused such Constant alterations and adjourtiments.(—rileal !) Mr. Mawrit4 of Galway.—it the Gentlemen on the other'side propose to exculpate the Queen troret the charges which have been preferred against - her, the obvious and satisfactory course would, in his opinion, be to proceed with the investigation, for w Web at one period, they appeared so anxio. It had been admitted by those Gentlemen, that his Majesty ought not to retrograde, hilt th'e'pro position of the Hon. Member opposite appeared to him so ridiculous a'nd absurd, that it was al most impossible to treat it but levity. It would, perhaps, have been more to the *purpose of that Member, Hod it would certainly have con. tributed, if not to the edification, at least to the amusement of the House. The Hon. Gentleman rtil i ght have read with proper emphasis and discre tion, a Resolty ion of this nature . _ Resolved—" That an humble Address be presented to his Majesty, praying his gracious consent that her Majesty the Queen's name maybe introduced into the Liturgyond at the same time, to assure his Majesty, that such condescension on his part, cannot, in the opinion of this House, be understood to indicate any change of his Majesty's opinion as to tbe con duct of his Royal Cousort."—(Laughter Lord Nuoaar agreed with the Noble Lord. op. polite, that it was highly necessary that every Member of that House should keep his mind quite unembarrassed by the rumours which were abroad, so that they might' be able to come to a dispas sionate judgment on the question. But were Ministers sincere in wishing that no prejudice should be excited out of doors before the case .came under the consideration of Parliament ? He would put them to the test :—he had seen certain paragraphs inis o Papers, taped Ministerial Jour nals, which he had read with horror and disgust. In one of these Papers he found, at the end of a very long and offensive paragraph, the following passage, which be begged to read to the House England ought not to be involved in misery for an Alien anti tin, ort by object."—The wretch! The slave !—That " unworthy object" was no other than the Message sent down to that House by his Majesty, calling upon theta to institute an inquiry into certain charges affecting the charac ter of his Royal Consort ;—and that " was' no less a personage than the Qaeen of Lug. land l—He also found a passage which he felt it to be his duty to call on the Government to visit with a public prosecution. - That to which he alluded read as follows Anti as the Queen alone stands its the way of arrangement, we say she ought to yield to the universal good, we care not whether as a martyr or a criminal." He would say noshing on this atrocious and dia bolical paragraph, but would leave it to those feelings of abhorrence which the reading of it must excite in the House. He would however call upon the Ministers, if indeed they were anxious that a dispassionate judgment should be conic to on the merits of this most important case,—if indeed they were anxious that the trill should he conducted with fairness and impartiali ty. He called upon the Noble Lord, if he wished to do his duty to his Sovereign and the Public— he called on the Right Hon. Gentleman, by the affection and regard which he had expressed for the Queen—and finally he again called on the whole of his Majesty's Ministers, from theii love of their country, anti from their love of justice, to say whether or not they would let this libel go without being prosecuted by the Attortrey-Gene . - ral. If they ordered it to be prosecuted they would do their duty : if they did. not, he wonld use his own discretion in determining whether or not he should . take any further steps on the sub ject. 'His Lordship supported the Amendment. Lord MILTON - was surprised that the - Noble Lord (Castlereagh) should submit a motion to the House like that which was 'then before it, without stating some public grounds for the course which he recommended, He had, however, founded the proceeding on nothing of a public nature, and he therefore called upon the House to consider whether, under such circumstances,. they would be justified in taking a step that might en danger the tranquillity as well as the morals of the country. lie wished theta to consider whether.means might not yet he found to avert the evil ? He should support the proposition -of his Hon. Friend. • It did not appear to him that there was no alternative but .to change the Ministry, or to proceed with the inquiry. The Crown need not be called upon % to retract, but Ministers niigbt be rs spired to do so ; and he would appeal to the House if they had not already retracted part of what they had advanced ,in the course of these proceedings. •It seemed to 'him that they wished to have two strings too their bow against the Queen, the House of Lords and the House of Commons.. ' He, however, called upon them to consider Whether as -men of honour they could not retract So far as to make an amicable arrange. went practicable, and remioding them of the causes which had led to the French R volution, . directed their attention to the evils which. threat ened the country from the line•of they seemed-disposed to pursue, Mr. W. Werner, if like the Noble Lord lie could see any hope of effecting an amicatde ar 'rangetnent, would anxiously endeavour to effect the accomplishment of an object so desirable. Unfortunately be could see no hope of this ; but colleting as he slid from the Noble Lord, he •so far concurred with him (though it was imross'io, isle for him to support the amendlitent,) that Le had considerable doubts as to. the propriety of agreeing to the motion. The message soul down to them WAS sue of the most serious importauee.