The Sun. — London, England, 1842-03-17 00:00:00

SPIRIT of the PUBLIC JOURNALS. FROM THE EVENING PAPERS OF YESTERDAY. T.OBE.It is very remarkable that not one of the Ministerial organs of the press now ventures to -,ay a word in favour of Sir Robert Peel's Income Tax. That some temporary recourse to property has be come nveessaw, is the utmost they assert ; but that this measure is a fair and just appeal of the kind, they dare not now asseverate. Andthe Times, fearful (it would appear) lest some d—d good-natured friend should take it into his head to contrast the tameness of its pre sent lucubrations with its famous Income Tax philip pics of 1816, reprints the latter, and proudly points to them—" That's my thunder—as good as new !"17hese are bad omens fbr the future idolatry of Sir Ro bert's Juggernaut car of Finance. When the most devout find they are to be crushed by its wheels their fervour lessens. It is the fate of the present Prime Minister on this, as on former occasions, to dis gust adherents equally by what is good and by what is bad in his measures. The Examiner said of him long ago, " In the political world Mr. Peel is to be resembled to that unhappy creation in the animal kingdom, the flying fish, whose double capa city subjects it to double enemies, and whose changes of element are but changes of persecu tion. He has his good points and tendencies, urge his apologists, and we do not deny them ; but we will 'feat:oy confess our suspicion that those partial, good points are even causes of the peculiar acharnernent we feel towards him, for they are sufficient to constitute provoking inconsisten cies, and make the man one disappointment." If the late Ministry had offered to reimpose the most ob noxious of war-taxes, can it be doubted for a moment how the partisans of the present would have scouted it ? Yet the late Ministry could have pointed to great and essential measures for food and commerce. They, could have pointed to measures effectually aimed to remove that pressure on the national resources, which was mainly caused by dearth and dearness of ne cessaries. Sir Robert Peel's multifarious med filings with the tariff are very small change for these. They resemble the rubbish of washed metal of all sorts of denominations which an English man receives with bewilderment in his first con tinental travels. Th e f ee li ng o f b e i ng c h ea t e d i s only silenced by the impossibility of reckoning what may really be the value of so many minute coins. But about the Income Tax there is no mistake. It is justly observed by a Morning Contemporary, that the temporary nature assigned to it only aggravates its injustice. "He lays it on for three years only, as he says. A man with a three years' lease of . an estate of one thousand p oun d s a year w ill , therefore, on the whole, contribute just as much as a man with an estate in fee of the same amount. The estate of the first will expire at the end of three years ; the estate of the latter will last for ever after him ; but the demand on it will expire at the same moment as on the former, because the tax will, according to Sir Robert Peel, cease at the end of the three years." STANDARD.—It is as impossible, said "Mr. Burke, to tax and please ; as to love and be wise. All taxes are odious, but taxes must be imposed if society is to he held together. It seems, therefore, a duty on the part of every good citizen to support the minister who imposes taxes which are not glaringly unneces sary or unjust ; and this without respect to party interests. But no moral aitomaly can be imagined more gross than the offering resistance to a minister of one's own party proposing taxes admitted on all sides to be necessary, and in their form as just as any taxes can be made. We must again put the question fairly as it stands. The question is not, whether any new taxes shall be imposed, but what new taxes ?—not whether we can go on adding three or four millions annually to the public debt, but how are we to raise three or four millions a year most fits*, and after, but long after, ascertaining the Justice of the distribution of the impost, with most attention to the public convenience? This is, we suppose, the fair state of the question, and yet many persons seem to misunderstand it. Otherwise we should not hear, as we do, of complaints from this man and the other ; of the hard bearing of an Income Tax upon him, because of the largeness of his family. One gentleman writes to say, that his family numbers 14 persons, and that it is cruel to impose a tax of nine pounds upon the 3001. a year upon which these 14 persons must be supported. It is hard ; but we chal lenge the substitution of any other efficient and im partial tax, which must be a tax upon necessaries, that would not bear more hardly upon him. It is not as a good, -far from it, that an Income Tax is to be received; but as the least possible evil. IVe believe, however, that the majority of reclaim: tions against an Income Tax do not proceed from persons in the condition of the correspondent whom we have quoted, but from those to wherm the tax will apply most justly and most lightly—the very rich ; at least we see the organs of the money power —consistent in upholding their idol, if in nothing else, agreeing in this, though opposed upon all other subjectz—the most 'forward in endeavouring to preju dice the Ministerial plan. When we see this ive cannot help thinking that the money power is the party waging the battle though the ground c h osen is the interest of the industrious. Lord Brougham has reverted to his arguments against the Income Tax 2G years ago ; others have done the same—we have carefully examined all these reproduced arguments, cml we have been surprised to - see bow few of them apply to the present time. Putting aside hard words, such as odious tax, detested tax, inquisition, &c. &c. &c. —putting aside, we say, hard words, which never pcive anything, these arguments are reduced to com plaints of a breach of engagement, that the tax should cease with the termination of the war ; and to the expression of a fear that the Government having too much money at its disposal, would make an ill use of it. 'The force of the pledges has, however, we pre sume, expired with the ministries and, statesmen by whom these pledges were given, who have been long at rest, and surely had no power to bind posterity thvough all time DEATH OF TIIE DUKE OF NOR- FOLK. We regret to have to record the death of the Duke of :god()lk, who expired at his town residence in St. ;Emus's-square, about eleven o'clock this morning. His Grace had been for. some time indisposed, and al though it wes thought probable that the arrival of spnrig might effect a favourable change in the state of hiS health; yet it cannot be said that the death of the I Xoble Duke was unexpected by his family and medical advisers, most of whom were around his death •bed. Bernard Edward Howard, twelfth Duke of Nor folk, Earl of Arundel, Earl of Surrey, and Earl of _Norfolk, Baron Fitzalan, Clun, Oswaldestre, and Maltravers, was one of our oldest Peers, having beeli born in the year 1765. He was the son of Henry Howard, Esq., of Glossop, in the county of Derby, by the second daughter of Sir William llul vneux, an Irish Baronet, and a member of the house of Sefton. The late Duke, then Arr.- toward, married in 1789 the third daughter of the second Earl of Faueonberg, but his marriage being dis solvel in 1794, the Duchess remarried the late Earl of Lneau, by whom she had a second family - . On the (bath of the eleventh Duke in 1815, his Grace suc ceeded to the title and estates of the senior branch of the house of Nortblk, and of .course also to, the here ditary Earl .Varshalsy of England. The creation of the Dukedom of Norfork dates as ',ack as 1483, and the earldom of Arundel was ,!ated in 1139, so that the Duke of Norfolk and Earl ok' Arundel is both Premier Duke and Earl of Eng land. It is unnecessary to refer here to the distill:- guished men which this house has given to ourcountry. Tin pages of history are Teplete with references to the family of dloward, which are sufficiently familiar to render detail. in this place quite Unnecessary. lice late. Duke was a Knight of the Garter and a I),rivy Councillor. lie was also, as is well known, a nu!ntbets of the Roman Catholic Church, and was, we I;olieve, the first Roman Catholic Peer who took his - - - • in the douse of Lords after the passing of the t.lief 13111. He was also the patron of 24 livings in Church of England. The Duke is succeeded in his titles and great pos- Fkk'SSiiMs by - his son, Henry Charles, Earl of Surrey, fimiterly Mernber for Horsham, West Sussex, but whWVas 'a short time since summoned to the House of Peers by the family title of Baron Maltravers. The Fre%:nt Duke was born in 1791, and married, in 1814, the eldest daughter of the first, and the sister of the present Duke of Sutherland, by whom fle has issue, Lord Fitzalan, now by courtesy Earl of ;'itirrPy; the present .representative for the family bsorough-of Arundel. His Grace, who is a moderate Liberal in polities, filled the office of Treasurer of the ilk , Royal Household and Captain" of the Yeomen of th e ; card, under the late Administration. His Grace is a Privy Councillor. The death of the Duke of Norfolk places another Garter at the disposal of tile present Government. STATE -OF :rte` (From the Mitlichester thAlarDietEdn• M A NCEIESTER. — There was very little change in our market yesterday. measures The financi a l proposed by Sir 11,)bert Peel have been, on the whole, gloomn favourablya whichd de spondency.e- ceived, and have tended to diminish the previously existed :b u t, bey on d t lfi s, no improvement can be reported. Tlit.re is no increuse or business, either in goods or yarn ; and prices of both remain at the very l .owest point that has yet been reached. RoenDALE FLANNEL MARKET, MONDAY, MARCH 1 4.—Thvi e has been a gloomy piece market to-day, and but very little business transacted at any prices. Dur ing the last week a small manufacturer for the Blackwa ter Market ha's assigned over his effects for the benefit of his creditors. One of the largett firms,cf cotton spinners Lave given notice to reduce the wages c,t their workmen, on Saturday next. HUDDERSFIELD MARKET, MARCH 15.--After an un paralleled length of gloom, and a waste of We energies of industry, .* is with great satisfaction we report that the aspect of this market is more cheering. Buyers were not very numerous, but those who were here to-day purchased more freely, and the spirits of most trades men were better. No great amount of business was done, but every movement was an indication that trade is on the eve of revival, and that prices will ad vance. Sir Robert Peel's budget, and the details of the twill; have given an impetus - that cannot fail to relieve the suffering - mercantile body. The demand was miL cellancous, or in assortments of heavy fine woollens, and fancy goods of all descriptions. Business in the ware houses is decidedly better, and prices generally are im proving, and doubtless will improve, there being so much room. Work, too, is becoming more and more plentiful, and 4-hat is always a good symptom, m an y or d ers are i n hand.—Menchester Guardian. ELECTION COMMITTEES. BOROUGH OF WEYMOUTH AND MALCOMBE REGIS. (Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.) Mr. TALBOT was about to cross-examine the witness, but Mr. AUSTIN contended that, the opposite couns I had no right , o do so. Mr. Talbot wanted not to examine him now, but at a future stage. Considerable argument ensued, and the Com mittee ordered the room to be cleared to consider the point. The decision was, that the Counsel for the sitting members might cross-examine, but only resp , cting the custody of the poll-books. Mr. Lithgow, therefore, was not recalled. Mr. Tissard, the Town Clerk, was examined as to the poll-books. He observed that some erasures had been made, but did not say how. Edward Falken Tissard, brother of the former, had had the custody of the poll-books altogether for one hour and five minutes, but he knew of no alteration. The register of elections, the overseers' lists, and other official d.)euments were put in. Mr. AUSTIN now objected to the vote of John Bridle, No. 146 on the Register, poll No. 4. He would show that he had voted out of one house, when, in fact, he was living in another, and then, that be had no qualification. On this point the Overseer and Stephen 'Parnell were examined, but the Corn mit.ee were occupied a long time with arguments for and against the validity of the evidence to show that Bridle had voted out of the house which he did not occupy. Bridle's vote was eventually struck out. John Farwell, No. 96 on the poll, was next objected to, and abandoned, his vote falling under the preceding decision. John Wicker was next objected to ; but the Speaker being at prayers, the Committee adjourned. GREAT 111ARLOW. (Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday ) Mr. Sergeant MEREWETSIER then proceeded to the cases connected with the removals. Henry Stalwood, the returning-officer at the last election of Great Marlow, was called, and produced the poll- book, which had been in his possession since the election. William Barton was the first case of removal, and William Smith was called and sworn. He deposed that he was one of the overseers of Great Marlow. He produced the rate-book, and in that book William Barton was rated for a house in West-street, at the rate of 171. ; the owner, Sir Wm. Clayton, Bart. This was on the 25th of April, 1840. In the rate-book, under the date of the 17th of April 1841, the house formerly occupied by William Barton, was en tered on the rate-book as empty. Thomas Walker proved that in April last the house formerly occupied by Barton was then to be let. There was a bill in the window, stating the house was to let, and which remained there for five or six weeks. The notice was up a few weeks be fore the election. Mr. Edward Stubbs, resides at Dorchester ; was at Great Marlow 21st April last, for the purpose of hiring a house. Called on Mr. Tyler, in Marlow, the agent of Sir W. Clayton ; went with him to a house in the street, leading to the Market place. The house was pointed out to witness a few days ago, and it was then empty. Did not take the house in April, but can swear that it was not inhabited then. John Smith went with the last witness to the house in West street, Marlow. That was the house occupied by Mr. Barton. Believes Mr. Tyler to be the agent of Sir Wm. Clayton. Josiah Clarke lives in Marlow. Knew where Barton lived. Went with the overseer when he collected the rate from Mr. Barton in his new house. John Hackshaw lives in Great Marlow. knows West-street well. Barton lived in West-street till about ten days before Lady-day last. Saw him take his furniture away. After that saw workmen in the house. The house has never been occu pied since. James Batsing worked in the house formerly occupied by Bar ton. Was doing repairs in the house. Mr. Tyler sent him in, and paid him for his work. Was at work as a bricklayer's tabourer. Cross-examined—Has had the misfortune to have been com mitted to prison for stealing sausages. " But," said the wit ness, " I didn't have 'em."—(Laughter.) Will swear it was Mr. Tyler that paid him for his work. Re-examined—Has been employed in other places for Sir Wm. Clayton, and was then paid by Mr... Howe, the keeper. This was the case against the vote. Mr. Cocialtrux then called the following witnesses in sup port of the vote. Mr. Wm. Tyler being sworn, deposed that he collected rents of property belonging to Sir W. Clayton. Mr. Barton occupied the house in West-street. On the 23d June, 1840, received a notice to quit from Barton, which expired at Christ mas, 1840. Barton continued in occupation up to that time and afterwards. In 1841, he proposed to give up the pre mises. Witness objected to it, as he required a fresh six months' notice. Barton acquiesced in the term ; but he com plained that it was a hard case. There is not a redundancy of tenants in Marlow. Mr. Barton had taken a new house, but he paid witness the rent up to Michaelmas, 1841. The rent was 25/. Mr. Barton complained, and wished to state the case to Sir William Clayton. Witness said he Would do what he could to let the house. Witness probably put the notice in the window. There were fruit-trees in the garden of the house, and at Michaelmas Mr. Barton took the fruit. The garden was highly cultivated, and he took the produce during the summer. The house was out of repair, and the witness thought that if it was repaired it might let better. Witness made a proposal to Mr. Barton to have the house repaired, which proposal was acceded to. Witness had the key of the house from Mr. Barton, which was returned when the repairs were finished. Mr. Barton held the key till Michaelmas. Cross-examined—Paid for the repairs of the house on account of Sir William Clayton. Mr. Barton received the key back about two mouths before the election took place. Has seen the fa:isily of Mr. Barton gathering the fruit, and amongst the flowers. Re-examined—The house is n o t l e t a t th e present t i me. Frederick B a rton, i s a son o f Willi am B arton, formerly of West-street, Marlow. Remembers his father taking another house at Lady-day.- He wished to give up the house in West-street, but that was refused by the landlord. Remembers the repairs being done in the house ; and also remembers 1 that the key was given up by his father to Mr. Tyler. His father received the key hack again. Has had the key in his ( witness's) posa ssion since, and has gathered fruit in the garden. That was on the 2nd of Augu t. Cross-examined—The Louse his father removed to was also situated in \Vest-street. The fruit in the garden consisted of apples, cherries, pea's, strawberries. &e. Will swea" it was lull a month before the election took place that he went into the house after they had removed to the new house. It-examine:l.—Will swear he was in the garden before the e'ec•ion was talked about. Mr Cocxnuitx then addressed the Committee in support of the vote. Mr Sergeant MEREWETIIER replied. The Committee then adjourned is II o'clock to-morrow.. BOROUGH OF CLITHEROE. . (Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.) Mr. Witaxciraar, in opening the case for the petitioner, said that the borough, although an old one in name and his tory, was in reality a new one. It had been a borough before the Reform Bill, when the fianchige was by burgage tenure; but now there was not one of the old burgesses in the con stituency. The number of voters at the time of the last regis tration was 387, of whom 175 voted, at the election on the 6th of July last, for Mr. Wilson, the sitting Member, and 170 for 11 r. Card Nell, the petitioner ' • so that there were upon the r eg i s t ry 42 who did not v ot e a t a ll. Some time before the election a requi sition was presented to Mr. Cardwell, inviting him to stand, and pledging the requisitionists to support him with their votes. Phis requisition was signed by a considerable majority of the electors, and there were a number of others, who though they did riot put their names to that document, yet supported Air. Cardwell at the election. Under these circumstances he might !airly have expected success without being too sanguine. But the fortune of the day was otherwise, and tie was in a mi nority of five instead of a majority of five times that number. What were the causes which induced no less than 25 of the re quisitionists to Vote fur his opponent, and what induced five others who signed the requisition to violate their p (nuke arid to abstain altoge her from voting, w ould be one main branch of this inquiry. The petitioner, in the first place, prayed for he seat, and, tailing to establish les right to that upon the scru tiny, that the election be voided on the grounds of Lribery and corn option. He would not go into a detail of the law of bribery, nor into an exposition of the vari ous kinds of arts which constituted bribery. These points were well understood by every member of the Commit tee—of course he meant not by their personal expel knee. If the result of the scrutiny should not be, as he had reason to be lieve it would be, to place the petitioner at the head of the poll, he (Mr. IV.) would feel it hie duty to show that the sit ting Member hail been guilty of acts of bribery, not only by his agents but by his nearest relations, and by his own direct acts. In discharging this duty, if it should come to be necessary, he would have to do much violence to his own feelings, and to implicate in practices of more than ordinary corruption several gentlemen. hitherto of respectable character, one of them a magistrate of the county, and another a member of the most sacred profession —a clergyman of the Church of England. He should show that sonie of those who had signed the requisition to Mr. Cardwell were carried off to the seat of the sitting Member's father, the Reverend Jeremiah Wilson, at Eshton Hall, and others to places in the neighbourhood of that seat; that there they were feaste ,) , intoxicated, and even drugged-- that is, not simply intoxicated, but intoxicated with liquors having something put into them more than the usud ingredients. Whatever was the influence exercised over those persons at Eshton Hall, the result was, that, with one exception, they voted against the petitioner, whom they had invited to become a candidate, and pledged themselves to sup port. This much would be shown that a system of extravagant revelry %vas carried on at Eshton Hali, and the Committee would be enabled to judge what other inducements were brought to influence those voters, when they saw what were the inducements brought to bear in other cases in which 'that of bribery was applied readily, loosely, and lavishly. Of the persons carried away to the Rev. Mr. Wilson's. seat, one remained - tree to his promise. No in ducement could shake his resolution, and if he could by any means go to the poll he would have done so. But when his companions were sent to Clitheroe, it was not deemed prudent to let him go with them, although he entreated the Rev. Gentleman to release him. But he was sent to a distant place, from which it was impossible for him to reach the town in time to give his vote; and when he was seen after an absence of four days, he wore a hat, which was certainly not his own, but belonged to the Rev. Jeremiah Wilson, whose name was written in it in his own handwriting, as would be proved to corroborate the other evidence that would be adduced. '1 he elector he spoke of had been taken forcibly away from Clitheroe ; whilst they were dragging him into the coach to take him to Eshton Hall, his' hat fell off, and wal lost. In the mean time there, was enough going on in the town to show the Committee what else besides mere revelry was going on at Mr. Wilson's. Here the Reverend Gentleman figured again ; and many were the ingenious devices resorted to to disguise the real character of the trans actions, and to escape, if not detection, at least punishment. Old claims were trumped up, and under pretence of dis charging them, money was paid that never was due. A man named Benjamin Swales had made a claim for 271. against the Committee of the Clitheroe Schools for jobbing work, which they refused to pay on account of the extrava gance of the demand. Upon this he brought an action against three of the members, Messrs. Anderton, An derson, and Hopwood. There was on the Committee a gen tleman named Garnet, one of the chief supporters of Mr. Wil son, and he was, though not directly, a party to the action brought by Swales, one of the most strenuous in resist ing his claim. But when Swales saw what his neighbours were getting by their votes, he declared that he would only vote for the candidate who paid him the alleseddebts and costs of the 'THE SUN, LONDON, THURSDAY EVENING, MARCH 17. 1842 s action against the School Committee, to which both parties belonged. On this Mr. Garnet paid him 481. 15s. 7p.• for debts and costs.l he odd halfpenny,indeed the fraction of apound, was palpably brought in to give the transaction a bona fide • look. '1 he direct purchase of the vote by a pretended payment of a vote, would have been too plain. However, the action was continued, and would end, if it bad not ended, in a nonsuit. It might be said that although Mr. Garnet was not a party to the action, yet that, as a member of the Committee, his zeal led him to pay this claim for the purpose of saving the funds of the school. But it would be shown that in no way whatever had this sum been brought to the account of the school-funds. And the Committee would observe that Mr. Garnet was on Mr. Wilson's Committee, and was his seconder. A voter or the name of Pilling received a bribe of 51. from the son of Mr. Garnet. Another voter was offered 451. by these gentlemen, of wham one was the Rev. Mr. Wilson. Other acts of bribery would be proved against Mr. Henry Thompson, now the Chief Alagistrateof the rearough, and Mr. Wilson, jun. , the brother of the sitting Member, and others of his Committee. The pub licans were bribed by an extravagance of expenditure neverknown before in Clitheroe, and seldom known anywhere elm. He now came to that part of the case in which he must enforce the re solution of the Committee by the exclusion of Mr. Trapps.— ( That gentleman immediately w ithilrew.) Mr. Wrangham then proceeded to state several cases i i which Mr. Tiapps, who was a solicitor, and the Town Clerk of the borough was alleged to have giren bribt s, and one case in particular, in which it was al eged that, in the office of the Town Clerk, he had gi' en the large bribe of 96/., under the name of a loan, to a voter, who gave no security of his own, but the nominal security of two workmen in the employment of Mr. Thompson, a block printer, and chairman of Mr. Wilson's Committee. He had now to state cases of bribery alleged to have been committed by the sitt ng Member in person. It wou:d b 3 shown that he offered 501. to a person named Towlas for his vote ; and in thecompany of three gentlemen, of whom Mr. Trapp was one, he offered Piling, already mentioned, Si. The Learned Sergeant concluded by stating that he would now put in the poll-books to be proved, with a view to the scrutiny. The poll-books having been put in and proved in the usual form, a lengthened discussion was then entered into between Counsel, as to the arrangement which it was proposed should be made when the scrutiny was commenced—that the evidence should be exhausted in each class before a different class was entered upon, and the parties should not be at liberty, after they had concluded the evidence with respect to a particular class, to resume it. In consequeeee of the announcement that the Speaker had taken his seat in the House of Commons, the Committee did not come to a decision upon the point, and adjourned until eleven o'clock this day. LAW INTELLIGENCE. INSOLVENT DEBTORS' COURT, March 16, MRS. GLOVER, THE ACTRESS, Mrs. Juliana Glover, the well-known actress, of Covent garden and the Haymarket theatres, applied this morning to be discharged on sureties until her hearing in April. Mr. Commissioner HARRIS, to the insolvent—What are you? Insolvent—An actress, Sir. The Court inquired into the two judgments against her. There was but one detainer on which she was in prison. The hail was then examined respecting their sufficiency, with which the learned Commissioner was satisfied. The in solvent was ordered to be discharged until her hearing, the latter end of April. but he (Mr. Ellice) could assure him that great anxiety I Stockport had sa id d ur i ng the course of the last was felt by the whole of the i n h a bi tants o f the North of ! Session against the agricultural interest.—(Hear, Scotland en the. subject, inasmuch as the safety of a hear.) He (Lord Howick) deprecated as much, large district was involved, and they expested that the as any one the bringing of such charges against the matter would be decided one way or the other 'rho landed proprietors of the country.—(Cheers4 He question he had to put to the Right Hon. Gentleman. was agreed with hi s H on . F r i end in opinion that these whether he proposed to-n om i nate that Committee before wholesale charges ought not to be brought for ward Easter? against any class of men, and in the strongest man- Sir ROBERT PEEL said he could assure the Hon. ner did he disapprove of those wholesale charges Gentleman that he did not consider .the matter one which had been brought against all. classes en of minor importance, but he had been unable to give it gaged in the cultivati on o f l an d . H e b el i eved the proper attention owing to the immense mass of public course they had taken tended materially to injure business before the House. But he saw no reason why the cause: they had prevented improvements with re the notice for the appointment of a Committee should speet to the importation of corn. —(Continued cheers.) not be made to-morrow. But he could not help pointing out to the Hon. Gen- PRISON CHAPLAINS. tleman and the House the manifest distinction which Mr. O'CONNELL said he wished to call the atten- existed between charges made against the public conduct tion of the Right Hon. Baronet, the Secretary for the of a class of individuals, and charges which applied to in • Home Department, to a subject which had been before dividuals, either by name, or what was the same, by alln the House last night—the vindication of the conduct of sion, more particularly when these were charges not of the Rev. Mr. Bradshaw in his treatment of the prisoners. mere misconduct but of actual infraction of the law.— It appeared that a Catholic prisoner had requested the (Cheers.) He believed the Right Honourable Baronet assistance of a priest, and had made his application to the opposite would agree with him that there was nothing so clergyman. On this application being made, the clergy- unwise as the introduction of such topics in the House. man made inquiries of the prison: r why he wished a He (Lord Hoe ick) agreed with what had fallen from the priest to be sent for, and it appeared that he required lion. Member for Stockport, that personalities would the priest to assist him in his defence, and therefore the not promote the advancement of great public questions. application was resisted. Now he (Mr. O'Connell) had As he said before, he would not engage in the conversa looked into the Act of Parliament, and he found no such don, were it not from what had fallen from the Hon. Mem discretion was given to the clergyman. The Act of ber for theW est Riding of Yorks hire ; but after what he said Parliament expressed that if a Catholic prisoner re- he found it impossible for him to refrain from expressing quested the assistance of a priest, the priest was to be a different opinion from him, He thought the personali sent and admitted. He (Mr: . O'Connell) wished to ties used towards the manufacturers and mill-owners know if the Right Hon. Gentleman considered that 'could not be justified, and were not to be palliated by the clergyman acted properly in resisting this application? anything that had taken place, because the charges of the Sir JAMES GRAHAM, who spoke in so low a tone one were of a totally different character from the other. as to be scarcely audible in the gallery, was understood He hoped that in discussing those questions there would to say, that the words of the Act had been rightly con- for the future be an absence of such personalities. strued,.but he (Sir J. Graham) did not think they ap- Mr. FERRAND said that the House would recollect plied to the case referred to. that during the last and present session, the Hon. THE TRUCK SYSTEM. Member for Stockport had asserted that the Mr. VILLIERS, addressing the Speaker, said, Sir, Corn-laws caused the distress of the country. not having distinctly understood your interpretation of It was his (Mr. Ferranti's) lot to converse with the work the orders of the House respecting the mode which ought ing classes in his part of the country, who said that they to be pursued by persons who have been charged did not consider the Corn-laws were the cause of that out of the House by some one within the distress; but they told him it was caused by the tyranny, House, I wish to ask a question on the subject. the oppression, and the plunder of their masters, and he The Hon. Member for Knaresborough charged a certain had used what he had been told as an argumentuni body of men with certain practices, and those persons ad hontinum.—(Cries of "No, no.") He (Mr. F.) said taking notice of what had been said, presented a declara- he had, and he was prepared to give e v id ence o f w h at h e tion, denying those cha rges . I un d erstoo d you to say, said, and when the Hon. Member for Stockport said he Sir, that those persons could not properly take notice of had brought those charges forward, on anonymous au what had fallen from any Hon. Member of this House. thority, lie (Mr. F.).begged to say it was no such thing. Since then I have heard that the Honourable Mem- He never brought any charges that he was not prepared her has repeated his charges. I am in possession to prove ; and there was not a single charge which he of the complete denial of those charges from the was not ready to prove before a Select Committee, woollen manufacturers resident in Yorkshire. I wish Mr. VILLIERS said, that he had received denials of to know, Sir, whether it be consistent with the orders the charges made by the Hon. Member for Knares of the House for me to read their declaration ? borough, from the very places where the Hon. Member The SPEAKER said it would be irregular in an Hon. said he had'got his charges.—(Hear, hear.) Member to read such a document. DESIGNS COPYRIGHT BILL. Mr. VILLIERS begged to ask if it would be in the Mr. E. TENNENT rose to move the Order of the power of those person, on any other occasion, to repudi- Day for the second reading of this Bill. The Hon. ate the charges brought against them. Gentleman proceeded to make some observations, which The SPEAKER said, unless some Hon.. Member were for some time inaudible in the gallery, in con moved for a Committee to inquire into the subject, that sequence of the noise cau-:ed by Honourable Mem could not be done. bers leaving the House in considerable numbers. Mr. FERRAND said he thought he could satisfy the He was understood to say that the object of the measure Hon. Member. If the Hon. Member would publish the was to give a high character to English manufactures, names of the whole of the Anti-Corn•law League, he by encouraging the manufacturers and their artists to would find that the majority of them carried on the compete with those of foreign countries. He then read trade he mentioned. an ordinance of the French Government, which set Mr. VILLIERS said it was not in his power to pub- forth the great importance of excellence in design, to lish the nam es o f th e Anti-Corn-law League. He was the manufacturers of the country, and giving a not a member himself ; but he believed that the majority protection of nineteen years to the inventors. of them did not practise the truck system. Down to 1835 there was no law of copyright for designs Mr. COBDEN sa id he understood last night that in England. In that year Mr. Poulett Thompson the Hon. Member for Knaresborough stated that the brought in a Bill for this object, which gave a copyright Hon. Member for Stockport had inquired whether of three years to designs in metal, and of twelve years the truck system prevailed. Was it not known that if woven generally. It was his intention to in the Honourable Member kept a quantity of cows, elude designs for printing cottons in his Bill ; but and supplied his work-people with milk, for which he front the expensive operation of the registration system, deducted from their wages ? He wished to know whether the parties interested preferred being exempted. But that charge had been made. the obligations to the registration system had been re- Mr. FERRAND said, he believed he had said, " I moved, and the manufacturers now claimed protection. don't know whether the Hon. Member for Stockport is Printed cottons now formed one of their most in the House or no; if he is, will he deny that he keeps valuable manufactures, and the protection of the cows, and supplies his work people with milk, and pays designs on cotton presented a singular anomaly himself out of their wages ?" compared with those on silk. The opposition to his Mr. COBDEN was understood to repeat his question. measure was confined almost exclusively to those who Mr. FERRAND said that s be had said, would the traded. in the designs of others, as common property, and Hon. Member deny it. If he did, it was his (Mr. Fer- they feared that any alteration in the law might throw rand's) deity to take his denial.—(Hear, hear.) a serious obstacle in the way of their operations. But Mr. COBDEN said he hoped the House would give he regretted to say that he had encountered opposition him credit for not having wished to introduce personali- from gentlemen who seemed to entertain some ill-defined ties into their discussions.—(Hear, hear.) It seemed but strong apprehensions as to the effect, of this that the statement which had gone forth in the Times measure, though with one exception, at Man was now withdrawn. He was not called upon to answer chester, he did not meet with a single excep any direct questions put to him ; but he would tion from the cotton-printers of England and. Ireland. take it as a c h arge o f last night which the All he looked for was a protection to the proprietors of Honourable Member did not adhere to to-day. designs of a moderate and limited duration. The pre- Now, if the House would allow him, he would just sent system was injurious to the interests of trade. A de state very shortly one or two facts with reference to the Sign, which might have cost the proprietor great care and business with which he was connected. That business expense, was copied by another manufacturer in inferior could not be carried on without the consumption of an colours and inferior cloth, •which enabled him to under immense quantity of cow-dung—he was letting the Hon. sell the original proprietor in his own market.— Gentlemen opposite into the arcana of the cotton printing (Hear, hear.) Not only was he deprived by this means of —and for this reason it was often necessary for a mann- the profits to which he was fairly entitled, but the repu facturer to keep not less than a hundred cows. It so tation of his house seriously suffered. He would read a happened, however, that as his print-works were near passage from the evidence taken before the Committee pi) a town, it was more economical to buy of 1840, to show the extent to which the sys cow-dung than to keep cows ; and therefore tem of piracy had been carried. The Honourable not only was this insinuation not true, but Gentleman then read a portion of tke evidence given there was not a shadow of foundation for it.—(Loud before the Committee, by a manufacturer in Manchester, cheers from the Opposition.) These personal charges who stated that he had himself been an- extensive copy against hint were evidently g ot tip for the purpose of ist of other men's designs, and that he printed distracting attention from a great and vitally important his copies on such inferior cloth as to enable him question; and he must confess that he did not under- to undersell the original designers.—(Hear, hear.) stand how the misconduct of inillowners and manufac- This was the evidence of a gentleman of high standing, turers could fairly be brought into a discussion on the and of considerable distinction in his own trade, and who subject of the Corn-laws.—(Hear, hear.) If, as the had given much assistance to the Right Hon. Gentleman, Honourable Gentleman alleged in the Corn-law de- late Vice President of the Board of Trade, in the Committee bate, the master manufacturers were tyrants to their appointed to inquire info this subject. This was one rich people, th a t sure ly was no reason why they should instance of the demoralising practice. ,The next point add to their sufferings by increasing the price of food. to which lie would refer was the evidence of Mr. Lewis, a Mr. S. WORTLEY rose to order. The Hon. Member merchant ofLondon. The Hon. Member then read another should confine himself to the charge which had been extract from the report of 1840, but there was so much He had n o r i g h t to go i nto the noise in the House that we could not catch a word. He brought general questionagain s t him. the Corn-law s , then came to the eviden ce o f M r . W arw i c k, w h o The SPEAKER said, the qu es ti on b e f ore t h e House stated that piracy was carried to such an extent that of was, " That the Orders of the Day be now read." at one time every new pattern that came out —(Hear, hear.) Strictly, therefore, the Honourable was immediately copied by rival printers. This Member ought not to wander from those Orders, evidence wits slso confirmed by that of Mr. which were under the consideration of the House. Strutt, of the house of Clement and Company. Mr. S. WORTLEY had not been aware that that was He could adduce other evidence to show that numerous the question. piracies took place, merely because the present law did Mr. COBDEN said he trusted that Hon. Members on not give protection to the designer for a longer period both sides of the House would give him credit for endea- than three months. It might be asked, then, if the pre vouring to avo id these discussions ; he had done sent law did not give a greater protection, how would the so because h e perceived that the design of those designer derive protection if his copyright were established who introduced them was to distract attention during a longer period ? The fact was, that at present from a very important subject. (Hear, hear.) the owner of ; copyright did not think it Ile was not i n the least afraid to meet the Hon. Mem- worth while to defend himself against a pirate. ber for K nares b o rough upon any question of a personal The law now did not cover more than character.—(Opposition cheers.) But if the House was twelve weeks for the designer. It required two or three to be the are na f o r discussion of the social relations be- weeks before the success_ of his design could be tween masters and servants, husbands 'and wives, bro- tested ; it required thr e e or f our more wee k s to titers and sisters, uncles and nephews—(Laughter)—or re -p ro d uce it, and then when a piracy became known even neighbours ; if personal character must be the owner did not think it worth while to encounter cost, discussed, lie should say again, that he was not trouble, and expense to defend his right for the few afraid to m eet ti me lion. Member (Mr. Ferrand), and he weeks that remained. But if the protection were (Mr. Cobden) challenged him to a discussion. At all extended over a period of twelve months, or even times he (Mr. C o bden) avoided personalities, but if for nine months, as the present Bill pr posed, the owner, challenged to th e m, he would meet the Honourable thinking it then worth while to' defend his property, Member for Knaresborough, and meet him in any way would become more vigilant. But the bad effects of he wished.—(Hear, hear, from the Opposition.) the present law did not injure the owner of copyright The discussion then before the House could not be alone ; they also in jury d his retail customers, the shop justified in any one way. He (Mr. Cobden) keeps rs, for they, knowing that at the end of the protected did not stand there as the defender of the manufacturers periods successful portions might be imitated to an of the country. It was quite true there might be bad indefinite extent, would be afraid to give men amongst them, as well as good. There might lie large orders to the original owners, lest at bad millers as well as good, in the same way as there the end of that period their stock might were just as well as unjust Judges. B ut if t h ey be bad, re ma i n unsa l ea bl e upon the i r hands, through that was no la assu why the p oor man s bread the competition of those who had bought cheaper should be taxed.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") The from the imitators. In like manner at pre question then, was as to the Corn and Provision -laws. sent there was not time enough to receive That was a question entirely for the people, and it was and execute an order from the West Indies. quite clear the charge which had been made upon biro The evils of the present • system affected muslins and (Mr. Cobden), as arising out of that question, was a de- calicoes in Belgium, Italy, and the Unit e d St ates . vice of the opposite party, in o r d er t o escape cr i t i c i sm. For no One bran'eh of the manufacture, either for the It was not becoming that House to listen to such per- home department or for foreign export, did the present sonaldes. The'attention of the House was turned to them, law atibrd any protection whatever, whereas if the and there could be no doubt that her Majesty's Minis- copyr i g h t were extended to nine or twelve months tors were responsible for the deep indignity which the there would be an adequate protection for all. character of the House suffered by listening to such The injuries which resulted to the induStrious manufac charges, which were perfectly unworthy of the fire-sides timers from these practices were so obvious, as not to re ef country gossips. quire any comments from him. There was one, however, Mr. STEWART WORTLEY maid, for his part there to which he must draw the attention of the House. was no man in the House more adverse than he He meant the permanent injury which these practices was to the introduction of personalities in the debates must cause to the future prospects of the industry of the which had from time to time taken place in that House. country, and the character of the British manufactures But with respect to the charge made by the Hon. Mem- in foreign markets. In these manufactures there ber for Knaresborough, he should say, that when he un- were two processes, first, the intellectual process— dertook in the first place . to show that those gentlemen malting the design ; then the mechanical process which who had been united under the name of th e Anti-Corn- consisted in the manufacture of the fabric. In the law Le Igue were obnoxious to these charges, he oaly did latter of these, this country stood unrivalled ; that for which an example had been set him besoe;.! by Hon. but in the former, the beauty and supe the fault of the on. ri or ity o f d es i gn, t h e French artists were r. S.Wortley) was sure much before us. It; ho wever , i n a ddi t i on to the cheap- IN G i t e m m t l h e e m r e t.( n )r s t . 0 ro Whateverughi A be l H that the charges against him, and the objections to the Huss anti stability of the production, in which we n ot come with a very exce ll e d a ll our r i vals, we could add beauty of it,crozis egrace c h f l r ie m l n iad ti t l a o k se en, honourable Gentlemen who design, our fabrics would then be accepted in had brought those charges forward.—(Hear, hear.) every market of the world ; but such was the pre- With produce elegant designs,it tended recollect the language that Stockport, they could not but rec respect to the Hon. Gentleman the . Member for sent law, that instead of encouraging the artist to from turning his attention to the subject. course of the last Session. in many instances persons who had it in contemplation agricultural body during the speeches. design, because the law, as it now stood, did not the words " monsters," to prol um new and valuable articles had abandoned the They could not forget that had lion. Gentleman had made use of, when speaking of the courage him of ur legislation. alliird sufficient protection. Another Mr. COBDEN—I was speaking result of the e Hon. Member " tyrants." and " demons." Mr. S. WORTLEY contended that the The Imperfect operation of the law was,. that it made us de had applied . those terms to the agricultural classes. e pendent upon our rivals in France, not merely for the that occasion had dis- finer class ot goods, but for the designs employed in this Hon. Member for Stockport. on tincify said, that the landlords ,interposec like f monsters country. The extension for which he contended would figured, in his and demons between the welfare and happiness tsth e remedy all the evils which lie had pointed out, and would people, and the prosperity which wa s opening _ before; l have a tendency to raise the character of English manti them. While such language was a dopted and promulgate factures.' But there was another consideration by which through all parts of the country, while those rancorousii)u he would recommen d t hi s extension to the adoption of descriptio ns were g i ven o f t h e ag ricultural interest, the _House, namely, th e necessity of preventing the waste Gentlemen co u ld not b e so s imple as to imagine that . of m oney , b y the establishment of schools of design. language of th a t ki n d cou ld be used with v ! I impunity, If they were to have schools of design in this country, without bringing retribution on those e s t.' d lit was' necessary to give security and protection to those Without taking upon himself to on thi b 'e r fial fo g r e K bf n ought whose genius was engaged in that business. He (Mr. T.) forward by his Hon. Friend the Member for Stock would not venture to intrude upon the patience of the borough, lie would Say that the Hon. 3 _ oc House by going through all the advantages' which in port was the last person in the world whol had y right his opinion would result from the measure he proposed. to complain of his conduct.— (Cheers.) from 1 • nor would he then take up the time of the Lord 110 WICK would have abstained ta sing House by anticipating the objections which might any part in th e di scuss ion, but for what had b e ta k en to the second readisg of the Bill. falle n f rom his Honoura bl e F r iend opposite. He However, h e wou ld s t a t e t h at notw ithstanding the prohibitory had heard what had fallen from his Hon. Friend , duties existing in other countries against our manufactures, with great surprise, and with still greater regret,— there was little apprehension of a successful competition from (Cheers.) He regretted to find a gentleman so much those countries. In Belgium the duty amounted to 25 or 30 entitled to respect as his lion. Friend taking up the de- per cent., and yet the quantity exported was not loss than fence of the introduction of those personalities which, 5,200,000 . yards of printed calico. In the United States of in his (Lord Howlett's) op i n i on , had been so mi s - I : 3 1 f u d irca o , tko o ug li h:he o Z s ri e ff was ostensibly modified, the amount chieVously intruded into their debates. His 11 " . Erie " cent :L o d yet notwithstanding to that almost prohibitory 80 per had said, without entering into the justification of the the number of yards f • g duty, o prin ed calico exported to America was lion. Member for Knaresborough, that he was not sur- on an average, for the last 30 years, 36,000,W. The Hon. prised at the Hon. Member adopting the course he had Gentleman concluded by moving that the Bill be read a se done, in con sequence o f w h a t the Rom Member for road time. extended, hu tie. They Nw had the been n m s i i t le te n e t h o a n d t a h ff a o t rd so e b d je li c i t m , lore, the House must have recourse to the evidence on that sub- . D_ 'ect. It would be a matter for the serious consideraSion o t he Government, whether, in the event of their extending L ieriod of the copyright, they ought to . .N l ?_ s the copyright of designs for calics.s for a longer period than n a o nd a , id th 9 s e S u rr: six months. It was true, he believed, as had D o slated by the lion. Member for Belfast, that there st , ' . 1 ! - strong feeling in favour of an extension of the time anions the manufacturers in. Scotland. The Hon. Member for Belfast said • that the calico printers in Ireland were unanimous on the , ject ; that might be so, but it should be recollected that tnpre . was but one calico printer in Ireland —( A laugh.) was the opinion in Manchester? The Hon. Gentleman..s . a,! that there were 48 houses in favour of an extension of time, and 36 against it. But 36 was a very considerable mow,. rity, and when they were called up n to alter the law the IP, : t . nion of such a minority ought certainly to be regarded. but But Win House should look, however, not at particular towns, b what was the general opinion of those engaged in the tra . l : _ . He (Mr. Shiel) would ad m it t o t h e H on. Gent l eman that Ill!. Putter was a most impo r t an t w i tness, and that M r. Potter w" l .. ill favour of an extension of the ti me • b ut t h ey should look the admissions which M r . P o tt er h a d made. That gentl le o f had made the important admission that the great majority those engaged in producing these designs were against an t y t e e l, , tension. He was asked if consumers- were not ben i '?, l l lhe and he said they were. He then stated, and it was of or t once to be known, that the lower orders were interested :se matter. , What was the evidence of a witness produced by thy' Hon. Member for Belfast himself, to sustain his case ? .,; a e u ,. he said the lower orders had an interest -in lsrge ellau ll " ere being produced.—(Cries of 44 Hear, hear.") They ci , not to neglect the retailers; and how were they affec t n o t If this Bill were carried, an injunction would lie, seri only against the pirate, but also against the 100 or 200 retailers who dealt with him. There was no doubt on the subjee lj. (Cheers.) He did not mean to say that the objection vraS s i c i, superable, but it was a ;strong one. He now came to the dence of Mr. Kershaw, No. 3,883, who stated that the . T at tailers petition e d aga i ns t t h e extension of copyright ; and tYco the Hon. G en tl eman was hi mself the person who produced book in which that evidence was given. the Mr. E. TENNENT sa id he referred to the petitions o f persons themselves, and not to the book. Mr. SHIEL—At all events it showed the interest the !fa tailers had in th e matter. T he motion for the reta il e rs 2; obvious ; it was to escape from difficulty and litigation. matter, therefore, stood thus between the parties ; there ; . 7; on the one hand a great b ody of manufacturers who swee t : it ?, naturally in favo ur o f extens i on ; and there were a l ar ge of capitalists, who had b een i n t h e h a bi t of copying, edit. retailers who dealt w i t h them, who were opposed ~o u s Would his Hon. F r i en d f org i ve him for saying that he Ling have acted more judiciously if he had abstained from 11 T e0 , remarks upon i n di v id ua l s, such as Mr. Brooks and Mr. 1110'1 who lie said were pi ra t es ? I nstead of that Mr. Brooks had to 1 s copied for t en years. W hen the. Honourable Gentle 10 mentioned Mr. B roo k s ' s name, he thought that si should have been mentioned ; and Mr. Lucas, fe ,, far from acknowledging that he dealt with P i l o & said that he dealt with those parties only who gave in. g re after the three months had expired. A pirate, under the P ha d sent Bill, was one who copied before the three moot" had expired. Such remarks, then, he thought, were not right , a te , ' it must give Mr. Lucas great pain to see himself ta lue , P t of sented. The Hon. Gentleman then proceeded to read a 1 4 ' 00 . Mr. Lucas's evidence before the Committee. He then c oo s' tinned—Was it right to say that Mr. Lucas bought ti v tis taig pieces a-year principally from pirates ?He deprecated h o , “ is $ up Mr. Lucas to such charges, and read an extract fr newspaper alleging that that gentleman had dealt witho Stf 'r rates. Were th ey to extend the copyright from three, t or nine months? In 1787, a protection of two moet hs , b se granted, but th e Bill was only for two years. In 1 789 ' t ' t he months were add e d, b ut t h e Bil l was tempora r y. In 17 n'' ear s, , BM was made perpetu a l, a f ter an experience of seven 3 oill but the period of copyright was not extended ; it wa s die Limited to three mo n th s . F rom that time to the presentto law had not b een c h ange d . . The trade was in a pro're sjs state, and, therefore, they should pause before they lu sce , any larg e or ex t ens i ve changes in a matter of such imports" b. He thought if a choice were made, that a period of six tau li th e • 1: would not- prejudice the trade of the country. while ° Old 4 s same time it would promote the interests of individuals- ket ; ...! period would be an ample protection for the horne.on o ue but if he found a more extended period would give an*" a rs tage to the continental market, be should pause before he g - s is ,t it, There 'were three objections to the extension t° t months--first, that it would put a restraint on the g u gi e ls copyist, whil s t it wou ld be impossible to restrain those a' s i hst glum, Franc e , an d Germany. The next objection was , 3O by extending the ti me o f t h e copyright they would furn ish an , additional incentive to piracy; for they would by that ° oo be holding out a further temptation to the few parties t 0 , would be dispose at any risk, to vi o l a t e th e l aw . The es 'the sion of the copyr i g h t would also interfere with ~,t facilities with w hi c h commercial operations outissed be carried on. Th a t po i nt h ad b een clearly esta"7B4o. by Mr. Luca s i n hi s ev id ence before the Committees of the The consequence which would necessarily follow fre °l ;s a st adoption of the prop os i t i on of the Hon. Member for -"s .„,„ n ar ls, would be this—th a t a merchant, before he purchased gpr should asc er t a i n w hi c h was the original producer, and tha t ; in ducer might dictate his own terms. Mr. Lucas stated O a s es his opinion nothing could be more destructive of the coull re 3 of the country than such a state of things, and he coo l t ie. that everything which fettered trade was prejudicial to l ep , He would refer the Hon. Member for Belfast to the aPr e sions expressed about the introduction of the re m tem in 1840. This system was fully at work in France, ;0, there were fifty-eight registering offices for patterns. of were the manufacturers of Scotland, of Manchester. g Ireland, to send their patterns to one office in Londe' , tee d they were, how was th e reg i ster i ng officer to act ? as s ow before the Co m mitt ee , one manufacturer issued no less mist 500 original patt erns i n a year, how was the officer to elatteres and give certifi ca t es ti f t h e or i g i nality of the millions of Pipes that must be sent to him ? and therefore, before the . Member for Belfast determined upon the plan of registratiocoo, proposed, he (M r . S.) truste d h e would most attentive ly o t sider the objections ma d e b y t h e present head of the Governs' at , in 1840. He e n t rea t e d t h e V ic- President of the Board ofllll3 and the House genera ll y , to cons i der the difficulties which the attend a system o f reg i strat i on. The Right Hon. Baronet' t h e be Member f or T amwort h , h ad said he was afraid there wou ld much difficulty in est a bli s hi ng such a system, so evalles e b - s t were those matt ers . A s to the officer making certificates. Iva particular designs were original, the idea was monstrous. ehe f Right Hon. G en tl eman opposite had justly said, that Lres should endeavour to produce an alliance between manufae and art; but let th em ta k e care that they did not g'/' It encoui agement to art greater than they gave to commeree• ths t was not, he believed, by individual remuneration of artists to t art itself could be promoted. He was most anxious to rr h e t se individual prop er t y i n d es i gn as far as was csnsistent pit a t it public interest ; b u t it s h ould b e always borne in min d , t" tip' was by cheapness in production that the commerce of this c e try had been advanced. Mr. E. TENNENT explained. After a few words from Mr. SHIEL, rio e Dr. BOWRING sa id , that lie did not obj ec t t o the P u b . e ct of the Bill, b u t h e conce i ve d that it was inefficient for the °fists in view, nam e ly, the protection of inv en ti on . The la Gentleman in his Bill did not define what invention was' ighl France the s y stem pursue d enabled them to protect co t he at a small e x p ense , an d t h ere could be no doubt but that t pf protection th us - a ff or d e d h ad been beneficial to the a r i s ing design, but the system proposed by the present Bill of l ea es J the decision o f th ese quest i ons of invention to two os eri' of the Peace, afforded no security whatever to thoserme torious men who, by th e i r i nventions of new designs, had The so much for the credit of themselves and of their country. I f o r Hon. Member should begin by creating a proper tribliq ns si judging in wh a t i nvent i on consisted, and also a proper trio s ip . for affording justice to those whose inventions had l' ee „ r es' vaded. Th e Bill was i neff i cient, and would lead to , pad lions which would be unin elligtble to those who would be oa fish upon to jud ge th em . H e feared the Bill would not aceett'r the object the Hon. Gentleman had at heart. i t 3 I t° Mr. MARK PHILIPS would, if he had conse e srs ing own feel'ngs, have abstained altogether from s s .`" the upon the Committee.—( Hear, hear.) Manchester 0 "; he great seat of the cotton-printing trade, and howev e ' rt ioo might decide, he was certain of offending some and tre ss of his constituents. It was, therefore, with fear aeu, i t sa' bling, that he entered that Committee. He, however, wee; tisfied that no man could be a fairer juryman on the . s t U h e he than himself, for he had never had any connexion o ,'„d, it trade, and whichever way the question might be de e '", - t sose could not at all affect his interests. He had thought that s on circumstances would have entirely exonerated hire fr om charges of improper conduct ; but since he had last sP e t9 ths t the subject, it had been reported among his constituen , he he had spoken either dishonestly or in ignorance. l' l b e° a 'sr'i did not pretend t o greater wisdom than. hi s neje 0 4 but it certainly was h ar d to be taxed with dish° oe under such cir c u mstances, and therefore he stood thece, ieno' the present occasion, to justify his own acts and eau h alf He should not t rou bl e t h e H ouse with any details ; he !are wished to say th a t h e approached the subject n with a sin r e e desire to arri ve a t w h at was j ust and sound. Many v bere papers and p amp hl ets h a d reached him from the districts !rs' the question possessed a peculiar interest, containing tions against the evidence given before the Committee. t hose he thought di sp l aye d exceeding bad taste. If the to-te the persons displayed in their designs were not better ' ll3 ' l llg style of th e i r wr i t i ng, he did not think any one would be sssie to pirate them. H eexp l t i nedthemode in which Parisian( e in were published i n thi s country, and stated that a sa' Manchester had p urc h ase d a pattern which another tip lo ' l l $ denth also, and were about to publish, t was acclly made known to them that it was alreadY . In r ior hands of another house. Whatever might lie the 1:1 0 1: i t taste of the French in matters of design, he slid not l h t hel was attributsb:e to a natural organisation in vylli e surpassed cur countrymen, but to the superior calt et litale the French G overnment had always taken to to works the access of th e art i sans to the observation and study of art. But in this country, all the public collections "r iet i o os of art a n d o bj ects of taste were fenced round with res l tn which exc l u d e d , for the most past, the great body of tie° ' wsrking people f rom d er i v i ng either amusement or I nstr m and from them ; and such institutions were closed on the (13 Y :nr sing in the parts of the year, when it was meat easy for th e !, cer classes to visit them. Another fact which he had alwa.7, l ,, t ,te' fleeted with our inferiority in taste was, that our pubhi' !" the tiosis were closed on the Sunday, the only day on they working classes could spare time to examine them, w i ' l3o nr were open on the Continent on that day. He m ust I ot re knowledge that the School of Design in Manchester ha( n 0 ,A 0 ceived that support to which it was entitled from lh es k the were bound to uphold it, and certainly he could not a: ho g. Government for aid to it while those persons held back . oo lds ever, the offer that had been made by the Government s the he believed, have an excellent effect in arousing ex , spirit of Manchester. Ile (lid not think that the l ef tension of the period of copyright would have, ca liecr feet in giving more employ printers, and to designers, though the latter stated to t_ u x * tens iot mittee their expectation that it would. In short, e Ou lu employment to engravers, 14?,.. Co s to six months was not necessary, because a good patternsaif always sell itself, arid shopkeepers must live only by h los ses' velty and variety. Indeed Mr. Warwick, who was fora a _l ea d time, stated to the Committee that a lady would not buy 0 ', o ne. dress of the same pattern, though it might have been a g o ° . " .etio o but shemusthave another. All that was required wasp r to for one season for the sale of the goods. He would nes t t. r' ces se the cost of thedesign. From the evideece takenbef_arice. .I , l n e hi d e ,l mittee it appeared the cost of printing was 55.,wh 0 11 , 1 the de the cost of the design. The proportion of the cost arr. the • sign was the 192 d part of the cost-price, and 352 d " i fling sel ing price, so that the cost of the design was really o ur importance. An increase of the copyright mitts J"' cos t of the trade. It would have the effect of increasing the c sow lion. He grounded his apprehensions on experience, a !' s ' s t he article, and by that increa .e they would reduce thee°)±, 00.1 , had occurred might occur again. He was not advoe tli!sk uns . e el" stances of the case, he thought there was sufficient protection cause of piracy, but he must say that, under all th • on for one season ; and he would say, that upon a ttee ne st, effeminate a nature, created one day and forgotten the n to these inventions, which were so difficult of definition..„_... e that they were not wise in attaching so much importance Captain FITZROY apologised for addressing the . Hui' hot 'this subject, and he should not have thought of he considered his own ability; but his first consideration r his constituents, and he therefore should have been deserti_ i f je ct• duty if he had not risen to say a few words on this sw. of Under the present system the manufacturer was obliged t v i V s se ' a high . price on his goods, in order to provide against doing -5 5 ma that might remain in hand, as there was not a sUtliele n isivenhint he copyright; but under the proposed ow"' Mr. W. WILLIAMS having been a member of the Com mittee appointed two years ago to inquire into this question, and having paid all the attention in his power to the investiira tion, he had come to a conclusion quite opposite to that of the Hon. Gentleman. It did not seem that the Hon Gen tleman himself saw any very urgent necessity for a change n the law, ;nasmuch as he had allowed two years to pass without taking any steps upon the recommendation of that Commit tee. The Hon. Gentleman had moved for the appointment of that Committe, and as was usual in such cases he had taken care that there should be a majority of persons prepossessed in favour of his own views. And yet what was the result ? When the question was put, that "It is expedient, &c"—(A laugh) —the Committee d.vi led equally, and the resolution was ac cordingly carried by the casting vote of the Hon. Gentleman ; and one of those who voted on the same side had never at ten. ded the meetings of the Committee, and only came down on that occasion to give his vote in support of the Honourable Gentleman's proposition. Now the cotton printing was one of the most • important branches of our manufactures. It was almost the only branch of our trade which was in a flourishing condition. There had been exported during the Present year 25 millions of yards of printed cotton more than had been exported during the preceding year. The present law had been in existence upwards of 50 years, and he thought the House ought to pause before it alit red a law which had worked so welt. It was strange that while they had some ol the first persons in the cotton-printing trade Members of that House, the subject should have been left to be brought forward by the lion. Member for Belfast. No one connected with the trade had expressed the least wish for any alteration in the law. About 22 years since an attempt had been made to alter the law, and a Bill had been introduced for that purpose, which had passed through the House of Commons, but which had been referred by the House of Lords to a Select Committee, and had, after an investigation, been dropped. The Hon. Gentleman had by no means stated the evidence taken before the Committee with fairness. One of the gentlemen exa mined before that Committee had stated that he had been en gaged in the trade many years, and that he had never see. above two original designs in his life. The fact was all ori ginality of design was exhausted. The manner in which new patterns were made was by looking over old ones, and taking figures from them to form fresh combinations. He considered the Bill was a complete fallacy as to giving a property of the nature it proposed to convey, and if it passed the greatest injury would ensue, and litigation would arise among the trade. A person may go into Chancery and con tinue a suit there for twenty years on a matter which did not amount to half-a-crown. The Hon. Gentleman referred to the evidence of Mr. Lucas, one of the largest West India merchants in the country, but the Hon. Gentleman forgot that that was two years since and circumstances were now changed. Mr. Lucas would now be placed in a different position, and such difficulties would be thrown in the way of the trade by the Bill, that Mr. Lucas would be compelled altog e th er to abandon the shipment of printed calicoes, the manuf ac t ure o f this country. M r . L ucas a l so stated that the -object of the extension of the Copyright was to give increased profits or to ge' higher prices for goods. That cheapness of production was the only means of maintaining the ascend ency of our manufacture s , an d t h ey would never be able to continue in their present condition if they shackled trade in this manner. Her Majesty's Government were now intro ducing to the House a great and extensive relaxation of the restrictions in trade, and here was the Hon. Gentleman, on the other hand, introducing a measure for extending monopoly in one of the most important branches of trade, and that in an article which really did not belong to anybody. The Hon. Gentleman had referred to the evidence given by Mr. Stirling, who had alluded to the establishment of Mr. Henry, at Dublin. He had no doubt that Mr. Henry was the cause , of t- .e Bill being brought forward, and had it not been for the fact of Mr. Henry having established a print work at Dublin, they would never have heard of the Bill. Mr. Stirling stated that Mr. Henry had been in business ten years, and during that time he was always in the habit of producing the patterns of others, but without violating the law, as it did not extend to Ireland. After that period he ceased to be a copyist, and employed persons as designers. What was the ad vantage? While he was a copyist, he effected not only a saving in wk,es, but als) in the engraving of his rollers for printing, in consequence of going to the same engravers as those employed by those to whom the original prints belonged, and thus saved half the expense. If there was an advantage in being a copyist, why did he abandon it when he could continue to copy without an infringement of the law ? Because he found it answered his purpose much better to pro duce his own patterns or compositions, he called his own, than to copy those of others. The system of copying from the de signs of others had of late been declining ; that was the state ment of every individual who had given his evidence before the Committee of 1840. One gentleman, to whom the Hon. Gen tleman had alluded, stated he had been in the business during the last thirty years, and that he had been in the habit of copying much more frequently during the first twenty years of that time than during the remaining period. But he had not acted, dishonestly in taking those copies, for that Gentleman stated that no man had a property in those pa tents, and that they were the common right of all. The fact was, that many of the designs, which it had been complained were copied, were themselves but copies from the french. The whole system was founded upon the practice of imitating and copying from preceding designs, and it could not be pro perly said that there was any exclusive right to any design. The Hon. Gentleman had referred to Mr. Tnompson. Now this gentleman was no doubt the most eminent calico-printer in Lancashire, but that gentleman never gave evidence upon that Committee. He (Mr. Williams) could have wished the plea sure of seeing that gentleman before that Committee, for the purpose of giving evidence; but instead of that he wrote cer tain letters. Now it would have been very convenient to some of the Members of that committee to have heard some ex planation of some of the 'opinions expressed in those letters. He had no doubt given very satisfactory answers to some of Clem. But he (Mr. Williams) would like to know the nature of those answers, instead of depending on ex parte statements. He would say, that if the parties on that Committee had acted with even-handed justice between ail parties, they would never have allowed she introduction of those letters as part of the evidence taken before them. The Hon. Gentleman had been pleased to allude to what would be the probable argument used by him (Mr. Williams), viz., the effect of this change on the foreign trade of this country. It was stated by the principal witness upon that Committee that there opinion was, that if any extension of the present copyright should ever take place, that it would lead to a most extensive system of copying from our patterns by foreign calico printers. One of the gentlemen stated, that it would answer his purpose to establish print works in Belgium, for the express purpose of copying patterns for foreign orders. Another gentleman stated. that the first thing they would have to do, would be to commu nicate with the calico printers in the different countries on the Continent, to ascertain what they would perform the different sorts of work for. They could calculate to the greatest pos sible nicety the cost of eves v article which could be placed be fore them connected with their trade, by looking at the quality of the cloth, and the number of colours it contained. He was convinced that the carrying of the proposed measure would in.. terfere with the calico printing trade to a most injurious ex tent. If the Hon. Gentleman meant to legislate at all on this question, it ought to be in an opposite extent ; but for this there was no necessity, as every one was satisfied with the present law. The Hon. Gentleman had referred to a strong feeling on this subject existing in Scotland. What did Mr. Dalgleish, the only Gentleman from Scotland who gave evidence before the Committee,_ say? He sa id t h at there was 30 little cotton in Scotland that printers scarcely ever protected their patterns; he produced four or five hundred patterns a-year, and he printed about '200,000 pieces, but he never knew any of them copied; he had seen none, but he had heard of one or two. Mr. Lockett, who was the greatest printer in this country, said he engraved 2,500 pieces a-year, but he only mentioned one instance of copying : and when one or two pieces were shown to Mr. Potter he could not undertake to say whether they were copies of the same pattern ; he said he should say that they were taken from the same design, but he could not say that they were actually from the same pattern. How was it possible for them to devise a mode of ascertaining what were and what were not original patterns, when practical men, who had been engaged in the trade for their whole lives were olvedless unable to distineuish them ? I f the law passed it would inv en liti g ation ; and the consequence would be that num ers of per one who were engaged in the trade would be compelled to abandon it. He entreated the House to pause hefore they gave their assent to this measure. The late Sir Robert Peel, who was the most distinguished person engaged in the trade, had never proposed an alteration in the trade, al though if he had done so he would not have had the least diffi culty in carrying his proposal. The same might• be slid of several other Gentlemen who had sat in that House at different periods. Unless a case of the strongest kind were made out, he trusted the Howe would not pass the Bill. He should feel it to be his duty to offer every opposition which it was in his power to give to it. Lord FRANCIS EGERTON said that Hon. Gentlemen had pointed out the source to which the Bill prop sod by , his Honourable Friend (Mr. Tennent) was traced; but in his (Lord F. Egerton's)opinion it was a matt er o f very small consequence to whom that Bill was primarily traced—whoever originated the measure, the manufacturers of the country would be greatly indebted to the House for carrying it into effect ; for his part he (Sir F. Egerton) would be sorry to oppose a Bill which, in his opinion, was founded upon the soundest principles of mo rality and justice, but at the same time he owed that deference to the opinions of practical men, who were capable of judging of their own interests, that he would not assent to the Bill if they had any objection to its contents. If they gave it anything like opposition, it would be a very strong reason to induce him (Lord F. Egerton) to accept the invita'ion of the Hon. Gen tleman (Mr. Williams) to pause, at least, before he gave it his consent; he (Lord F. Egerton) had looked into the evidence before the House, and he believed he was justified in saving that, out of 176 firms there were only 36 firms which 'had given opposition to the Bill, and in Manchester, where he be lieved the majority of those firms were, he found that a majo. rho of 43 firms were against that 36, and in favour of the Bill. He thought he could safely say that in supporting that Bill himself he only acted in accordance with the opinions of the respectability, and wealth, and intelligence of the constituency which he represented. The Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down, had traced the advantages which the French have over this country in consequence of their schools of design—he did not know what was the reason there were nut schools of design in this country. He believed the reason was that there was no interest taken in the matter, as there were no chances of succeeding, owing to the state of the law upon the subject. He understood the Govern ment were about to give a sum of money to Manchester for schools of design in that town. If designs were to have their pi oper value—if artisans were to receive a just remuneration for their skil, were they to be told that that was monopoly? It seemed to him that that was a strange misapplication of the term. It had been said that there was not much Scotch evidence before the Committee that sat on this staject. In a letter which he had received from a gentleman whose opinion on the matter was of eonsequenee, the writer stated that the Bill which had been laid before Par liament contained provisions enough to promote the object of it, and that, therefore, no material alteration was requisite, and that without seeking any additional evidence on the cue,tion, the Hon. Members ought to support the Bill. The Noble Lord read another letter from a merchant connected with the uth American trade, stating that, in the South American markets, the English prints were spoken of as mad e on l y for sale, and not for use. 'On the part of his lion. Friend, he begged leave to state that the majority in the Co.nmittee who voted in favour of the extension, was six to three. Mr. SHItL said, that he had paid great attention to the proceedings of the Committee, and he remembered that he ex pressed in the Committee that the ev id ence only should be re. ported, and that the Committ ee s h ou l d withhold the expres sion of any opinion. On th a t question being put, the arties were equal, but by the vote of the Chair man, the proposition was negatived. The Committee then divided on the question, " That it was expedient to extend the copyright of design," and the resolution was carried by a majority of six to three. He agreed wi.h the resolution gene rally, that the copyright should be extended ; but he did not think that in the case of printed calicoes the extension ought to be to so long a time as nine months. He thought six months qu•te long enough. He had also very great doubts as to the expediency of adopting the machinery of registrat ( Hear. )-- In giving a due protection to the property which a man had in his own invention, care should be taken , that they did not injure the public'. The Right Hon. 1 Gentleman, the Member for famworth, had made a speech in February, 1 840, in which he had strongly im- , pressed upon the House the importance of having the evidence of practical men. The Right Hon. Gentleman on that occa sion had said, that he felt great difficulty in coming to a con- , elusion, first, as to the extension of the copyright; and, se condly, as to w h at ought to be the time to which it should be I IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF COMMONS, MARCH 16. The SPEAKER took the Chair shortly before Four o'Clock. Mr. W. DUNCOMBE presented a petitimi against the Ormesby Enclosure Bill. Mr. J. BAILEY presented a petition from Ledbury, in favour of the Severn Navigation Bill. Colonel RAWSON presented a petition from Belfast against the new Corn Bill, and praying for a total repeal of the duties on the importation of corn. PRESBYTERIAN MARRIAGES. The HON. and GALLANT MEMBER also presented a pe tition from Armagh, praying for a prospective law on the subject of Presbyterian Mixed Marriages. POOR-LAWS (IRELAND). Mr. J. O'BRIEN presented a petition from the Poor law Guardians of Limerick, praying that the Assess ment to the Poor-rate in Ireland might be a general assessment instead of a local one, and other alterations in the Irish Poor-law. BOROUGHS' IMPROVEMENT BILL. Mr. BECKETT presented a petition from Leeds, pray ing that that borough might not be included in the pro visions of the Boroughs' Improvement Bill. SOUTH EASTERN RAILWAY BILL. Mr. GREENE brought up th e R eport o f the Com. mittee on the South Eastern Railway Bill.—The Report was agreed to, and the Bill was ordered to be engrossed BIRMINGHAM AND LIVERPOOL JUNCTION CANAL Bill. On the motion of Mr. GREENE, the Order of the Day for the second reading of this Bill was discharged, and leave was given to bring in an amended Bill on the subject. SAUNDERSFOOT RAILWAY. On the motion of Mr. KEMBLE, the Saundersfoo Railway Bill was read a second time. SAUNDERSFOOT HARBOUR. Mr. KEMBLE moved the second reading of the Saundersfoot Harbour Bill.—Agreed to. Mr. ABEL SMITH presented a petition from the Anti-Slavery Society of Ilitchen, against the importation of Hill Coolies into the Mauritius. STALEYBRIDGE GAS. On filo motion of ?Ir. TATTOR EGERTON, the Staleybridge Gas Bill was read a third time and passed. CROYDON RAILWAY BILL. An HON. MEMBER presented a petition from the London and Greenwich Railway Company, against the London and Croydon Railway Bill. NATIONAL EDUCATION (IRELAND.) Mr. SHAW presented a petition from Rathcormac and other places, in the county of Cork, deprecating the present system of National Education as unscriptural. Mr. SCOTT presented a petition from the members r the Unitarian congregation at Walsall, praying the ruse to remove all restrictions upon food and commerce. _ Mr. AGLIONBY presented five petitions from I chester and Salford, against the Corn-laws. Mr. COLVILLE presented a petition from the Arch. deacon of Derby and other inhabitants of the same place, stating that the ecclesiastical property of the petitioners was not properly rated, and praying for relief. Mr. BALDWIN presented a petition from certain mil lers of the United Kingdom, complaining of the grievance they would suffer from the importation of Hour, and praying the House would impose such a fixed duty on foreign flour as would place the British millers on an equality with foreigners. • - Mr. COBDEN presented a petition from Sunday schools in Westbury, in Wiltshire, praying for a repeal of all laws which enhanced the price of provisions. - LIVERPOOL PAVING AND SEWERAGE BILL. On the motion of Sir H. DOUGLAS, this Bill was read a second time. Mr. O'CONNELL presented a petition from the mer chants, traders, and other inhabitants of th e c i ty o f Cork, stating iet Cork was the most eligible place for the West India packets, and praying that it might be appointed as the station. The Hon. Member also pre sented a petition from a number of small farmers and labourers in the county of Meath, in favour of the Go vernment proposal to abolish the prohibition upon the importationof fbreign cattle. An HON. IEMBER • presented a petition from Kilkenny, praying the House to reconsider the Government pro posal with respect to the importation of foreign wheat and flour. The Bristol Boundary Bill was read a third time and passed. Mr. VILLIERS presented a petition from - the manu facturers of Lancashire, against the Corn-laws. Dr. BOWRING presented petitions to the same effect from Greenock and from the East United Associate Church of Haildington. Mr. T. DUN COMBE presented a petition from the parish of St. Clement's, praying that a quantity of grain, at least equal to the deficit of the home production, be imported into this country . duty free. . A petition from the borough of Wigan, against the Corn-laws, was pre aentel by the same lieu. Gentleman. MAIL CONVEYANCE ON RAILWAYS. Lord R. GROSVENOR moved for copies of the cor respondence that bad taken place between the Post-office authorities and the Grand Junction Railway Company, relative to the conveyance of the mail to Crewe, Chester and Birkenhead. THE INCOME TAX. Mr. MILNER GIBSON said he belioved he had the permission of the Right Hon. the First Lord of the Treasury to repeat the question this evening which he put yesterday. The question was this, whether it was the intention of the Government to extend the Income Tax to those pensions which were charged upon _the Consolidated Fund, under p ar qcular Acts of Parliament? Sir R. PEEL apprehended that the measure which he had proposed would extend to all annuities. or salaries received by any of her Majesty's subjects ; and it there fore followed that any annuities chargeable upon the Consolidated Fund would be subject to a reduction of a per cent. lIER MAJESTY AND THE INCOME TAX. Sir It. PEEL then proceeded as follows I may take This opportunity of making a communication to the House, which I think the House - will receive with great satisfaction. When upon the part of her Ma jesty's 'Government, I intimated to her Majesty, that her servants thought that the financial necessity of the country were such, that it was desirable for the public interests to submit in a iime of peace the in• come of the nation for a limited period to a charge of 3 per cent., her Majesty, prompted by those feelings of deep and affectionate interest which she has ever shown in. the welfare of her people, observed that, if the necessities of the country were such that in time of Peace Parliament should deem it necessary to submit the income of the country to a charge of three per cent., it was HER VOLUNTARY DE TERMINATION THAT HER OWN INCOME SHOULD BE SUB JECT TO A SIMILAR REDUCTION.—(Loud and general . • cheering.) - Mr. RICARDO wished to ask the Right Hon. Baronet whether it was 'his intention that terminable annuities should also be subject td the charge ? Sir R. PEEL said he wished the Hon. Genth man would reserve his question till Friday, when the wh o l e subject would come under the consideration of the House. It was very inconvenient to put questions of detail, and require an answer from him without having given him any previous notice with regard to them. li e had no doubt as to the answer he should give to the present question ; but he did not think it would be con venient that thb Government should at once declare its intentions as to the particular items of the tariff, or of the taxes which it meant to propose. Mr. RICARDO gave notice that ho should repeat his question on Friday. CALEDONIAN CANAL. Mr. ELLICE wished to ask the Right Hon. Baronet a question relative to the Report of Sir 11. Parry on the Caledonian Canal. He wished to know it' a Committee would be appointed to examine that Report, as the holi days would commence so soon ; unless that Committee was appointed in a few days, he was afraid its labours would have no effect. The Right Hon. Baronet would no doubt think this was a matter of minor importance,