The Sun. — London, England, 1849-03-23 00:00:00

that it and not ion by le peo- is cer to give. favour fiber for scheme e were, %n or- termed ad en on that consent it; al .:0- tho xy bo cannot n such 6 neigh forced 3 than pia has urbear >se who Charles inter tbardp of Go obliga- )opular similar xample sir true d faith, en that 3 is but the de a down 1 to the .ircuin luct of wuring :urkish the ut vas the Friend )f a de bruary, asion— ears to mining left to ,t point, to tbia le, tbat main- it was ted out ving of opeared )ccupa as the ttomaa eY had an any ;, from ar CUP. I, Hol though 2. No half ❑mark, equal Azores, lalearic r own e than ; Lord le 24th ;h ma age of fleets ;nglish cob). ng crab be —CR transdu to others i;arts; but slioufci Ke eveee eejey salts advantage if Turkey were in the hands of Russia? And if that event should happen, how long would Persia re roam independent? It would be urged that the aid of the smugglers would be called in to prevent the exclu elon of our goods; but this would only operate as a miti gation of the evil, and not as a cure. He did not call on t he Government to resist the progress of Russia by ar maments or war, but by giving its assistance to Turkey. Not long ago the Noble Lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs had said, that when this country gave advice, it Lord always listened to, and never spurned. Let the No ble 4 sord exert the moral influence of Eugland to prevent the encroachments of Russia, and give support to a country so identified with our best interests. Had the Noble Lord been more alive to these matters, a great deal of harm Might have been prevented. If last year, when Russia first entered Moldavia—which she did with great hesita tion, disavowing the General whose act it was—the Noble Lord had assumed a firm attitude, and used determined language, and had shown that the proceedings in Molda• ta were looked on with the greatest distrust and the most determined aversion by the British Government, Russia would have soon retired altogether. If the Noble Lord laid the papers on the table they would see whether he was wrong or not in attributing to the Noble Lord a Want of determination, and he therefore hoped the papers Would not be withheld.—(Hear, hear.) Colonel THOMPSON would state to the House the reasons which, in his opinion, gave an importance to the motion of the Noble Lord. Honourable Gentlemen who Were in the habit of looking around upon the political horizon, might probably have felt some suspicion that the position of England, like all other sublunary things, wss very far from stationary. It had been said by a 'tight H o nourable Baronet in that House, but whom he did not then see in his place, that the naval supremacy of this country, upon which their forefathers bad for so many years prided themselves, was not to be calculated upon as an immutable thing, certain to descend to their children. They saw a great republic growing up on the Other side of the Atlantic, the members of which did not appear to be always actuated by the best of feelings towards this country. He had seen an American guide-book which had letely been published, and he was curious to see in What manner it might indicate the sentiments of the People of that country. 'The writer of the book said that, upon passing the Horse Guards, he thought of the time when 50,000 American troops should be drawn up In array behind it; and while gazing upon Windsor Castle he thought that many years might not elapse be fore he saw the flaunting bunting on its towers replaced by, the modest stars and stripes o f the great repub lic.—(Laughter.) Looking round u p on what was pass ing in the world, he could not help thinking that the ground was shifting away from them; and as with Ve nice, Genoa, Holland, and other countries in Euro p e, so With this country, there might be a time coming when if they would hold their ground, it must not be upon their old foundation, or upon the supposition that they could hand down to their posterity anything like the comparative or relative power which Eagland had en joyed in past ages, unless they could contrive to make friends somewhere and with somebody in the great struggle which everybody knew was going on between civilization and political liberality, against barbarism and despotism. He was anxious not to omit any or portunity of holding bef'ore the eyes of the Government, which, Perhaps, might not be blind to this subject, that there Was a strong feeling in existence in favour of assuming the same position as that held by their ancestors in the brae of Elizabeth and Cromwell—the woman and the man to whom their greatness was mainly owing.—(Hear near.) He believed that there was a great weakness of argument among Hon. Members on the opposite side upon this subject. He did not wish it for a moment to be thought that he was pleading for war; he hated it, and great warriors had said so before him.—(Hear, hear.) lie earnestly trusted that the Government would consent to lay before the House some information to Show that they had felt an interest in the subject.— (Hear, hear.) Such being his view of the importance of the question brought forward by the Noble Lord, he felt great pleasure in seconding the motion.—(Cheers.) Lord PAL aIERSTON said ho should best discharge his duty to the House in rising after the seconder of the motion, in order to state the view he took of the motion cl his Noble Friend. He fully retained the opinions his Noble Friend had quoted from a former speech of his— that it was desirable for the interests, and creditable to the honour of this country, that the House of Commons should take a lively interest in the foreign relations of this country. And he owned that it was sometimes a Matter of regret to him, when out as well as when in office, that the foreign relations of the country should excite so little interest within those walls. For although it might be inconvenient to the person filling the office he had the honour to hold, that the frequent discussion of these questions should be introduced, yet any man Who felt that he was honestly discharging his duty must look at least for the support of the majority of that House; and he need not say that that support would greatly strengthen the hands of any Minister is his relations with foreign Powers. Nevertheless, he did not feel it con sistent with his duty on the present occasion to consent to the motion of his Noble Friend, for the reason that the papers he called for were connected with discussions Which were still going on, and it was the universally re cognised ru l e rule of that House that inconvenience was to arise from the production of unfinished corre spondence respecting matters which were still pending. -,--(Hear, hear.) He could assure the Noble Lo rd that ne was greatly mistaken if he supposed that the ques tion t o which he had called the attention of the House was not considered by the Government as one of great national, and, indeed, of European, importance. He was quite ready to agree in every word that had fallen from the Noble Lord as to the necessity of maintaining the Independence of Turkey. It was of vast importance both in a political and a commercial point of view. Po litically, it was hardly necessary to go into any argu rnents to show, that if those vest regions which were at present under the dominion of the Sultan were to be par titioned among the other powers, that could not be done Without a great European contest, without material de l'angensent of the balance of power, and without great detriment to those powers which did not share in the spoil. In short, it would derange the existing balance of power in Europe. And as England could neither wish for, nor possess, any share in the spoil of such a transaction, she certainly could not share in such Et transaction. That opinion was not confined to this country, The House might be assured that the other leading powers of Europe were equally sensible of the great importance of maintaining the integrity and inde pendence of the Turkish empire. That independence had been recognised and cared for in the treaty of 1841, for regulating the passage of ships of war through the Dardanelles. He was satisfied that none of the great Powers who were parties to that treaty would attempt to infringe the principles so solemnly recorded in the pre amble of that treaty. Her political independence then was admittedly of great importance. Commercially, his Noble Friend had in no degree overstated the case. It was true that there was no country with which they had great commercial transactions that the tariff was so low or so liberal as in Turkey. The trade with Turkey was, besides, an annually increasing trade; so far from having reached its maxi mum, it was still advancing, and it the improvements Which were being carried out in that country still con tinued, by which increasing security would be afforded to individuals and property, and greater protection to the Occupations of industry and the employment of capital, they would find with that their commerce increasing, not only with England, but with every trading nation; and tho se regions which were formerly the centres of human civilization would again approach their former condition, and their connexion with Turkey would be of annually Increasing importance. Under these circumstances, and with these views, it would have been a dere liction of duty on bis part if he had seen with apathy and indifference the transactions which, in any way, however indirect, appeared to bear upon the indepen• deuc e of Turkey—and such undoubtedly must be the Prima facie appearance of the occupation of two provinces of Turkey by a neighbouring power. Explanations were given at the time by the Russian Government, and communications—some verbal and some written—had been ever since going on between himself and the Rus sian Minister at the Court of St. James's, and between the Russian and Turkish Ministers at Constantinople. There representations had been made in the most friendly spirit—in the spirit of those friendly relations which existed between that country and Russia. They had been received in the same spirit—and whatever the com munications might have b een , t h e H ouse m i g h t b e satis fled that in no degree had they produced any alteration in the friendly relations between the two countries. When the occupation of these provinces first took place, a circular was issued by the Russian Government, which be held in his hand, stating the reasons th a t h a d in duced Russia to sanction the advance of R uss ian troops, and stating the contingency under w hi c h that advance had taken place, and under which the occupation would cease. The generll ground on which the sanction was given—he said the sanction, because he believed that the immediate ad vance was from a communication between the Turkish authorities and the Russian general commanding—but that was sanctioned afterwards b y the Russian Govern ment. After stating the grounds on which the advance had taken place, the circular stated, in the following Passage, the contingency on which that occupation would depend. Count Nesselrode said, after alluding to a for mer occupation, " The same thing will happ en this time also ; and from the moment Wallachia and Moldavia shall have order re-established, or that the Porte thinks he has acquired a sufficient point d'appui for the en tire peace of the two provinces, our troops shall be with drawn, end shall again re-occupy that position strictly defensive which they originally occupied." It was of course open to anybody to say that when he placed confidence in the views of any Government, he Was likely to be deceived. He (Lord Pelmerston) could only say that whatever might be urged on either the One side or the other as to the grounds on which the 'occupation took place, that he placed confidence in .the Russian Government, and that he believed they had no intention of making a permanent encroach ment upon the Turkish empire, and he was certainly convinced that the question pending between the Russian Government and the Turkish Government was merely a question of time, and not one of principle or of ulterior intentions. Since the events had happened which had agitated Europe, the Russian Government had shown a great desire to remain in an expectant attitude, and had not interfered in the internal affairs of other countries. The grounds assigned for the interference in the present Instance was the revolutionary movements of these pro • vinces, and their being supposed to be connected with ranch more extensive arrangements, and that it was to guard her own provinces from extensive movements that were contemplated, and she felt bound to occupy these Provinces. His Noble Friend had stated very correctly th e progress of that insurrection. It was perfectly true that Moldavia and Wallachia had been for a long time xri% e, ficd r, it listur p .!.^l, aaxioue deeire to investigeis compleinte arid bake &Lica reforms as would be likely to satisfy the reasonable de mands of the people. He agreed with his lion. Friend the Member for Bradford that it was most desirable to assert the moral power of that country—and it was, doubtless, very great, unless, by her own fault, she should forfeit it He could assure him that it was the wish of her Majesty's Government to maintain it by every possible means. A country strong in itself, and which could not be supposed to be actuated by fear, was enabled to couch its communications in a manner calcu lated not to wound the feelings of other states, and by that means it was frequently enabled to confer essen tial benefits upon the parties concerned, and promote the interests of peace, to which his Honourable Friend had so ably alluded and so well described. With regard to the question before the House, the Government had taken that part in the discussion which, as the friend to both parties, were best calculated to forward the objects they had in view, and he trusted the question of time, being the only question now pend ing between the two powers, would be ultimately settled to the mutual satisfaction of both.—(Hear.) He was dis posed to finish there, did he not know that the state of those affairs had created a great deal of discussion out of doors, from the apprehension that that question would lead to an interruption of those friendly relations. It was alleged that certain orders that had recently been given by Turkey for the usual naval and military prey partitions—that the announcement of the usual equip ment of a squadron at that season, and the march of troops to the northern provinces for review, were some what suspicious, and that had led to a disclaimer of any hostile intentions. He trusted that these statements would prove well founded, and that the negotiations which were then pending would terminate to the satis faction of both parties, and without disturbance to the general peace of Europe.—(Hear.) Mr. ANSTEY said matters had now assumed so serious an aspect in the east of Europe that if England was what she had formerly been she would not then be discussing the present question in the House of Com mons. He maintained that a fearful blow had been struck at British interests when the first Russian soldier had passed the boundary of those principalities. They had seen on the part of Russia perfidy after perfidy, and fraud after fraud, and yet the Noble Lord told the House that he relied upon her honourable intentions, because she had signed the treaty of June, 1841. He contended that the English Government was bound to interfere, and to insist upon the immediate withdrawal of every Calmuck and Russian from that soil, which they pol luted by their presence. These provinces were 30,000 square miles in extent, and no less than 20,000 of them were rich and fertile lands. This territory was inha bited by a population now of upwards of 4,000,000. This population was capable of supplying our markets with every commodity which we were now reduced to pur chase, at enhanced prices and inferior quality, in Russia. They were willing to receive payment for their com modities, not in money, but in British produce. The mouths of the Danube were so choked up with sand as to make it impossible to carry on properly the timber trade, which was formerly the most thriving trade in those parts. At this moment there were not more than eight,or nine feet of water, and the vessels that could enter there were of two small a size to conduct properly that trade. Russia had beset every mouth and access with her quarantine regulations; so that if even a letter be allowed by the Russian authorities to pass, we owe it to their forbearance, or, as the phrase is—their magna nimity. The consequence Ras that British trade in Mol davia!, was now wholly extinguished. Our merchants were forced against their will to go to Odessa and other ports, which, it might be said, enjoyed the advantage of the prohibitory tariff of Russia. The question the House had now to decide was, whether we were strong enough in our foreign, commercial, and politi cal relations, to submit to this great loss of political influence and commerce in the territory he had described. If Wallachia was suffered to import and export freely, the trade of Russia was gone. So that this was a case of life and death to Russia. If the policy o Russia, and he was afraid he might say the policy of Great Britain, be suffered by Parliament to be carried out in respect to these provinces, he feared that what had been done in Moldavia and Wallachia would be imi tated by Russia in every other part of the Turkish do minions, so that the future occupation of the Dardanelles would not be a question for the statesman to consider, but for the historian to record. He did not know what information the Noble Lord had received from his diplo matic agents in this quarter, but he was authorised to say by one of the highest authorities on this subject, that every attempt was now being made by the Russian general and the troops under him to stimulate and exasperate, not only the population, but the Turkish army of occupation, to aggressive measures against Turkey. As to the Noble Lord's confidence in the disclaimer of Russia in respect to any aggressive intentions, it should be recollected that Russia had never yet invaded any country with out heralding her advances by a disavowal of aggressive designs. It was quite clear that Russia:would remain in these provinces in spite of all that :had been said and done; so that it was too much for the Noble Lord to say that Russia would withdraw her troops. He should vote for the motion of his Noble Friend, and he hoped that Noble Lord would not yield to any persuasion to with draw it. If the Noble Lord did give way, he (Mr. An stey) should feel it to be his duty to ask the House to come to a division upon the question. Mr. M. MILNES trusted that his Noble Friend (Lord D. Stuart) would not press his motion upon such an im portant question to a division in so thin a House (about fifty Members were present) as this happened to be.— (Hear, hear.) lle (Mr. Milnes) would not attempt to follow the Hon. and Learned Gentleman who preceded him into the various topics he had adverted to in the course of his speech, because he thought that the present was not the time or the fitting opportunity for discussing the terms and principles of the treaty of Adrianople, and other treaties of an equally ancient date. If this country had failed in peforming its duty to humanity with respect to its share in those treaties, be thought the cause of any such failure was not attributable to the Noble Lord now at the head of the Foreign Depart ment.—(Hear, hear.) He saw no reason for supposing that any dispute between Russia and Turkey could be adjusted at the desire of this country. All it could pos- sibly be expected to do was to exercise its moral influ ence to prevent any misunderstanding which was calcu lated to disturb the peace of the world. It was cer tainly very hard that Wallachia should be forced to contract debts for the purpose of maintaining the troops of Russia, and he hoped that his Noble Friend (Lord Palmerston) did not countenance such an imposition. — (Hear, hear.) lie trusted that his Noble Friend might feel it his duty to represent to the Government of Russia that this nation did not approve of the system of forcibly occupying a country with foreign troops that did not require their presence or assistance. — (Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord would do well to im press upon the Russian Government that in the opinion of the English people it was vain for that Govern ment to declare that they had no ulterior object in view in sending their troops to occupy foreign provinces.— (Hear.) The evacuation of Moldavia and Wallachia by the Russian troops was a subject that his Noble Friend would do well to keep in mind. Let him take a firm stand upon the matter without any attempt at dictation, arid he believed that the advice of England opportunely given would have the effect of restoring to those Turkish provinces that independence in the scale of European countries to which they were justly entitled.—(Hear.) Mr. URQUHART said that the question before the Hou-e involved more than a mere motion fur the pro duction of papers. It was a question whether an act of oppression had not been committed against one ally of the British Crown by another of its allies; and the an swer must be that there had. The Noble Lord the Se• cretary for Foreign Affairs said that the question between Russia and Turkey was one of time. But in his (Mr. Urquhart's) opinion, the question with regard to time was not when Russia would deem it necessary to give up her occupation of the provinces of Turkey, but when Turkey would be able to resist and throw off the system of oppression to which she had been subjected for the last 150 years. Being an ally of both countries, he thought that friendly mediation upon our part to settle the differences was perfectly justifiable, and ought to have been applied. He trusted that the Noble Mem ber for Marylebone would press his motion to a divi sion, for the purpose of showing how few Members were in the House upon this occasion, and bow small was the number who sanctioned the general concurrence of the Foreign Secretary in the acts of Russia. Mr. HUME said he was disposed to think that the Hon. Member for Pomfret (Mr. Milnes) had somewhat magnified the power of Russia; though he (Mr. Hume) had expressed himself frequently against the aggressive policy of the Emperor of Russia, and he thought that the introduction of questions of this sort was of advantage, because opinions expressed in that House and by the people of England were likely to produce an effect even on the mind of such a despot as the Emperor of Russia. He (Mr. Hume) confessed that ho thought there was not much danger to be apprehended from Russia. He believed the Emperor of Russia's present councils were leading him into danger, which might ultimately fender him as helpless as were many other monarchs at the present moment. The Noble Lord at the:head of the Foreign office had stated, that having offered the advice of an in dependent country like this, he thought that that advice would be sufficient. He (Mr. Hume) was glad to hear that, because there could be no doubt that honest advice would ever produce a good effect. He certainly did not believe that Russia intended to take permanent posses sion of those countries ; but at the same time it was most desirable that this country should use the moral influence it possessed to prevent the encroachments of Russia. He was glad to hear that harmony existed be tween France aed this country, and lie hoped that other countries in Europe would be equally disposed to join with them ; but whether they did or not, he was firmly convinced that by the cordial co-operation of France and England, even though it were against the inclination of other powers, they would be able to maintain the peace of the world.—(Cheers.) He would advise his Noble Friend not to endanger the advantage which had been obtained by the introduction of his motion, fur during the time he had had the honour of a seat in that House he did not recollect that any Member ever rose and defended the course which Russia had taken, and he believed that there was not only un animity in the House, but out of the House, upon the subject of the aggressive character of Russia. It was on this ground—whilst deprecating all interference by co ercion—that he thought it would be prudent and wise in his Noble Friend not to press the House to a division, but to accept the fact that negotiations were still pend ing, as a sufficient reason why he should not persist in calling r the production of the papers.—(Hear.) Mr. DISRAELI—Sir, I rise to express my hope that the Noble Lord will not call upon the House to divide upon the present occasion, for by so doing, I THE SUN, the 2; a VI:11 in teres'_ my aclyi, ( 10t taX( Mr. Hutue) LONDON; not go to a division on tne pieteut occasion, said he had sat in Parliament a considerable time—that there had always been a unanimous feeling against the policy of Rus• sia, and that the Autocrat and his policy had never been mentioned without being denounced; end, therefore, he recommends that the same course should be pursued on the present as on former occasions—namely, that those denunciations should be continued, and that divisions should not be had recourse to.—(Hear, hear.) Now, the only inference I should draw from the advice of the Hon. Gentleman would be rather against the counsel he re commends to you, for certainly the speeches which have been made in the House of Commons have not produced any particular effect upon the policy of the Russian Court.—(Hear, hear.) But I wish to remind the Hon. Gentleman that the policy of Russia has never been mentioned in this House without somebody rising to vindicate what I, for one, generally speaking, regard as most politic and even magnanimous. I would appeal to the policy which Russia has pursued during the last twelve months of agitation; and there are Jew but will be ready to admit that there has been exhibited on the part of that power a great amount of forbearance—a great desire to maintain peace (an object which is of such, importance with Hon. Gentlemen opposite), and I be lieve a sincere desire to maintain tranquillity. What ever may be the ulterior designs of Russia, and I do not pretend to share in the powers of divination which lion. Gentlemen opposite seem to possess, yet I think it is a point upon which we may fairly congratulate this country, that a power of the importance of Russia, under such circumstances of temptation as those which have presented themselves during the last twelve months, should have evinced a disposition which no one can deny had not only materially tended to, but has been one of the principal causes of that peace, the maintenanee of which you congratulate yourselves upon.—(Hear.) Con trast the conduct of Russia under those circumstances with that of the French Republic forty or fif , y years ago. Imagine the career which might have been open to a great power like Russia had she chosen to have seized such opportunities as have recently occurred; and what confusion, suffering, and loss to Europe and to civilisa tion might have been the result.—(Hear, hear.) Nothing can, I think, be more unjust than for Hon. Gentlemen to give an opinion as to the character and conduct of one of the greatest powers of Europe, not on account of what it has done, but of what it will do, according to the pro phetic powers of lion. Gentlemen. We must judge of the conduct of Russia by what has actually occurred. We see that its conduct in a late transaction was charac tensed by great temperance and great forbearance. With respect to the immediate instance before the House, we do not know the cause of the occupation of those principalities. It may have originated in a false interpretation of treaties—in a misconception of the di plomatic position of Russia with respect to these trans actions. It is quite true that the conduct of Russia under the :circumstances, however we may consider it opposed to our interests, or to the law of nations, is still such, that it is on an occasion like this that we must look with confidence to the Minister of the Crows, and we are bound to give him our fair confidence in a trans action like this, for this is an occasion on which negotia tion ought to have a fair opportunity. If the result of the negotiations should be fruitless—if they should be hostile to the interests of England, then there will be the right time and the proper occasion for the House of Commons to interfere.—(Hear. ) But then these attacks on a great power, not on ac count of what it has done, but on account of visionary results, which only exist in the imagination of those who speak them, are certainly not the basis on which public men should act. We expect a Secretary of State to express opinions upon some other grounds than those which such crude materials would afford him to deal with, and the promulgation of which are calcu lsted to lead to results most inconvenient, not only for the transaction of public business, but ultimately to the tranquillity of Europe. This, Sir, is my opinion, and I have now to express the hope that there will be no division on the motion before us, and it may lead to a false im pression. Ido not wish the Emperor of Russia to sup pose that there is a want of sympathy for populations that are not treated in accordance with what may be considered the law of nations, nor with what may be considered is high policy—that suffering humanity has not the sympathy of the House of Commons under all circumstances. I hope the Emperor of Russia, too, will understand, that it is not the opinion of the House of Commons, nor the opinion either of the English people, that he is a despot whose conduct no one will vindicate.—(Hear, hear.) I hope the Emperor of Russia will understand that the speeches made by the Hon. Member for Montrose, and of others, are not a fair representation of the feelings of the House of Commons nor of the English people.—(Hear, hear.) Ido not be lieve that such speeches do represent the feelings of the English people. I believe that the feeling of the sensible part of the community is that they recognise in the ruler of Russia an individual of great ability and of great merit—that he is a man. of great intelligence and of great power, and that he has exercised that power with a due regard to the position he occupies and a strong sense of the duties that devolve upon him.—(Hear.) As to the inclination to impugn the conduct of the Em peror of Russia, as if he ha - d committed an act of felony, because he has not been born with a king, lords, and commons, and a parliamentary committee, to keep him in check, it is au absurdity, for which there is no sym pathy in this House; but I believe there is no sympathy even amongst the people who are now walking outside in the streets. The time has gone by when such attacks can be made, and they have been left unimpugned too long. For 30 years the Hon. Member for Montrose has been indulging in these remarks—and I say it with great respect for his talents, he has been during all that time indulging in unmitigated nonsense on the subject.—(Laughter.) He has subjected the Em peror to the same sort of criticism, because he has not been surrounded with the forms of a constitution. For this reason the Hon. Member has described the Emperor as a despot, as an ogre, as a sort of being that only ex isted for the purpose of inflicting misery upon mankind. I believe the opinion entertained of the Emperor is, that throughout his career he has shown the influence of his individual character, that he is rather in advance of the people he governs, and that of all sovereigns that during recent events have occupied thrones in Europe, he is the most entitled to the respect of mankind.—(Hear.) Sir H. VERNEY observed that the question befofe the House was, whether the Emperor of Russia had done that of which this couotry had a right to complain. If Russia had been peacefully inclined, why had the Em peror promoted the denunciation of the treaty of Mal moe ? There could be no doubt that if Russia had re monstrated with Denmark that peace would have been the result. Mr. J. A. SMITH differed from the Hon. Member for Bucks, and thought the feeling in this country in general was against the Emperor of Russia. Perhaps it was from necessity that the personage had become the unscrupulous and determined enemy of constitutional liberty wherever it appeared. The House had surely not forgotten the history of Poland, of Circassia, and of Cracow.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord could not have forgotten the opinion which he had expressed of the conduct of Russia towards Cracow. He hoped the Noble Lord would nut divide the House, for he must feel satis fied with the result of his motion. Tho moral force of England, in this as in other questions, w ould have its weight, but influenced as it was with our alliance with France would be irresistible. That alliance they owed to the conduct and policy of the Noble Lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, and on that alliance he believed the peace of the world depended.—(Hear, hear.) In the occupation of Moldavia and Walla chia by the Russians, he feared the rights of humanity had been disregarded. Ho hoped Turkey would protest against it, and he trusted, as the Noble Lord had not expressed a different opinion, that the Govern ment had also protested against it. He joined with those Hon. Members who had asked the Noble Lord not to divide on his motion. Mr. J. O'CONNELL congratulated the Hon. Member for Buckinghamshire on the cause he bad undertaken. The remarks of the Hon. Member who spoke last were excellent. He could have been content to leave the matter to his ',vindication. If any subject could excuse the use of strong terms, it was the conduct of that monster—the Emperor of Russia. The Hon. Member for Buckinghamshire had defended the scourge of women and the destroyer of men. Had the House for gotten the case of the unfortunate nuns of Minsk— dragged from their convents—brutally flogged—ex posed to the violence of ruffian soldiers—with the cognizance—with the express written approbation of the client of the Honourable Member for Buckingham shire? Had the House forgotten the conscription of Polish children sent to Siberia, dying by the way-side, and the orders issued to fill up the numbers by fresh victims—all to satisfy the cruelty of this hide ous monster! He was glad such conduct had been protested ,against. If sentimentality meant sympathy for human suffering under the heel of the greatest despot—the greatest monster of modern times—he should not be ashamed to avow it. Speaking on behalf of the Irish people he should support the motion, if pressed to a division. At the same time, he admitted there might be reasons why the Noble Lord should not divide the House. Lord DUDLEY STUART, in reply, said he gave full weight to the opinions of those Hon. Members, whether agreeing in his views or not, who recommended him to withdraw the motion. He had heard with some surprise the Hon. Member for Bucks say that on this question he advocated opposite interests from those es poused by him (Lord Dudley Stuart). Ile (Lord Dudley Stuart) was endeavouring to defend the in terests of the Turkish empire, and he thought He recollected that not very long ago the Hon. Member for Bucks, in a most eloquent speech on the question of Servia, had expressed as strong an opinion on the im portance of maintaining the integrity of the Ottomen empire as could possibly be imagined. He (Lord D, Stuart) had, throughout his observations, endeavoured to express himself in temperate language, and had given no utterance to those feelings which he was not ashamed to confess always rose in his heart when con templating the acts of the oppressor of Poland; and he would not be seduced by the exaggerated lauguage in which the Hon. Member for Bucks had thought proper to support his views, or be led to resort to intem perate expressions by way of retort. The opinions of the Honourable Gentleman appeared to find no echo in the House, and he was sure they would find none in the country; which was much more likely to coincide wish the feelings of the Hon. and Learned Member for Limerick. He (Lord D. Stuart) confessed he had heard the observations of that Honourable and Learned Member with pleasure. Such generous sentiments did honour to him who delivered them, as to the assembly which received them with cheers.— The lion. Member for Bucks, however, took another view, and he had a right to his opinions. His motives, no doubt, were excellent. Possibly he might think, now that his contemptuous treatment of the consolidated FRIDAY EVENING, MARCH 23, 18 1 fun... - --- I„ tt,€: L „ ",„„.• Wl' 6Lti, 1. • and that in that situation it would be more easy and agreeable to him to carry on business if he was on good terms with the Czar. The Honourable Member had pronounced the most unbounded eulo gium on the Emperor of Russia. He had said that he was the most peaceable, the least ambitious, and the least likely to cause apprehension to other states; but he thought, notwithstanding this, that the Ho nourable Gentleman had betrayed in the course of his speech, considerable doubts of the accuracy of what he hail himself stated ; for after be had pro fessed that it was matter of congratulation that the Em peror of Russia had not interfered with any other country, he said that he was not gifted with the power of divination, so as to divine the intentions of the Emperor of Russia. As we judged of a tree by its fruits, so we, seeing what Russia had done, what had been her conduct in Poland, the Crimea, and Turkey, how, by insidious proceedings she had extended her frontiers, and enlarged her territory, we naturally con cluded that she was going to do that which she had done before. He believed that all the Turkish empire wanted was sure moral support from this country. With two such countries as France and England united, he did not be lieve that if they spoke out and declared their opinions forcibly, they would find any country in the world to go agdiast them. He was gratified that the Noble Lord ap peared to participate in his views. As to Russia being in vited by the authorities of Moldavia, he believed that the Hospodar had invited the Russians, but that it was entirely against the will of the mass of the popula tion. As to Wallachia, the Russians had entered it gratuitously, without any invitation whatever, and after all pretext had been taken away by the Turks. The Noble Lord professed to feel great confi dence that the Russian troops would withdraw, and said that it was only a question of time ; but, in this time, the unfortunate inhabitants of the principality were forced to pay for the maintenance of these sixty thousand Russian troops. The Noble Lord had been deceived before in this very instance by the Russians, who told him last year that they were going out of Moldavia. The Noble Lord said that, except as regards the subject of the present motion, their conduct was marked by dignity and forbearance. This reminded him of what had recently occurred to a friend of his, who was also known to many Honourable Members—he meant the celebrated writer, Mr. Charles Dickens. He was walking in the street, when ho felt a man put his hand in his pocket ; he seized him, and hid him taken before the Marylebone Police -court, where he himself attended. Mr. Dickens having visited the prisons, recognised the man as one whom he had before seen, and said, ” Have you not been in prison before ? " " No, never," was the answer. The policeman, who was by, and conveyed him to prison, nudged him, and :said, " What are you talk ing about ? " Well," said the prisoner, "I never was—except for two months." The Russians had not interfered in the affairs of any other country; they had only taken possession of a territory to which they were not entitled. In reference to the motion before the House, considering the recommendations from all quar ters, he would not insist on going to a division. The motion was then withdrawn. THE 6TH MADRAS LIGHT CAVALRY. Mr. ANSTEY moved for copies of the proceedings in the Court of Inquiry and the Court-martial held at Arcot, in the year 1844, in the case of the alleged muti neers of the 6th Regiment of Madras Light Cavalry, and of all memorials and correspondence relative thereto, or to the punishments or commutations of the punish ments of any such mutineers; and also of the Madras pay regulations, and the Native Mutiny Act. The Court-martial was held on 17 Sepoys, private soldiers in this regiment, under the following circumstances:—The Madras pay regulations, when produced, would show that the Sepoys were enlisted on the terms of receiving so much additional batta when they took the field, the object being to enable them to remove their wives and families with them. The Marquis of Tweed dale, who was Commander-in-Chief at Madras, having suspended the issue of the field batta, these Sepoys were unable to take the field, and they refused to mount. This state of things continued for four days. The Marquis discovered that be had made an error, and issued an order acknowledging it, and declaring that the field batta should be allowed. The men immediately returned to their duty; and the Marquis, in a general order, expressed his satisfaction that he had done so, with his determination not to select them for a post of honour for a time at least, but to detain them upon ordi nary service; and they did duty accordingly for nine months, mounting guard about his own person, and no distinction being made between them and the other sol diers. But at the end of nine months a court of inquiry into these bygone transactions was held at Arcot, and the result was a court-martial on a charge of mutiny—a capital offence by the Native Mutiny Act, and requiring nine officers, whereas this court consisted of only seven. Applications for copies of the charges and for legal assistance were refused. 16 of the 17 leen were convicted. Two were shot; one was pardoned for having given " Queen's evidence;" the other 13 were sentenced to banishment for life. They were brought to Madras for the purpose of being removed to their place of exile; an application was made to the Supreme Court for a habeas corpus, but they were instantly removed out of the jurisdiction of the court to their place of exile. Soon after their arrival there the Government pardoned all but two, whose sentence was commuted to banishment for seven years, and that they were now suf fering. The present application to Parliament did not originate with persons having any pique against the Government or the Company, but with some gentlemen of the highest respectability in India; and when the papers should be produced, he (Mr. Anstey) should make a very serious case against the Marquis, and should pro pose a most searching and rigorous examination into the matter. Mr. J. O'CONNELL seconded the motion. Sir J. HOBHOUSE had not been aware that this motion was likely to come on this evening. In the many years that he had been in Parliament he recollected no case, or not more than one, where the proceedings of a court-martial had been made the subject of a discussion in the House, or, at least, of inquiry before a Committee, —(Hear, hear.) It was strange, if this was so mon strous a transaction, that it should have slept so long without shocking public feeling. It seemed fair to ask why it had been brought up now? This attack upon the Marquis bi gan with the presentation to the House of Commons of a petition from Mr. Malcolm Lewin, which the Committee on Petitions found to be so libel lous that they would not recommend tie House to allow it to be printed—(Hear, hear)—and but for an unfortu nate difference between the Marquis and Mr. Lewin, he (Sir J. Hobhouse) believed th e House wou ld never have heard of this affair. The matter originated, he would not say from no public motives, but from a great deal of private feeling. He had not a word to say against AIL Lewin's private character, but, in conseq uence of that gentleman's conduct, he was removed from his office of Provisional Member of Council at Madras, and obliged to quit India, and, if the Honourable Mem ber should proceed on any f uture day w i t h t his case, it would be his (Sir J. Hothouse's) painful duty to present papers signed by Mr. Lewi n hi mse lf , w hi c h would be a full justification for the course pursued by the Mar quis and the Government. No doubt the men were not tried at the time; it was thought that according to forms they should first be marched back from the Bengal Presidency into their own; a great portion of the whole regiment, too, was implicated, a general ac tion was expected, and if there had been immediate in quiry, it would have been necessary to have artillery to secure the execution of the orders ofthe Commander-in- Chief. The mutiny was of a most serious character; it it included a great number of the native officers; secret oaths were taken; meetings were held; there was a po sitive refusal to march; the men would not even parade. —(Hear, hear.) Surely the lion. Member must see that the present was rather an awkward time to make this complaint of the conduct of a Commander-in -Chief towards native troops in India, and without the produc tion of papers.—(Hear, hear.) The Marquis of Tweed dale was too much of a gallant soldier to be chargeable with cruelty, and he was sure he was too much of an lace nest man to shift from himself the responsibility that fairly belonged to him. Though 13 men were condemned to be shot, only two were ordered for execution by the Marquis of Tweeddale; and these were two men who had administered illegal oaths to the mutineers, and en deavoured by a combination to destroy all discipline in the regiment, and march it to a place where it would be under the guidance of a Zemindar or some person of that kind in India.—(Hear.) But this matter did not escape the attention of the Government of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Tamworth; and ho found, on making inquiry, that the whole case was submitted to the Duke of Wellington. The Noble Duke wrote a to which the Hon. minute on the subject, in which he entered into th e w hol e of the transactions, and especially that Gentleman had so strongly re ferred—viz., the m en b e i ng allowed after the mutiny to go on common duty. On this point the minute showed most distinctly that so far from such a line of conduct being contrary to the ordi nary rules as laid down in the articles of war, there was, under the circumstances, no other mode of dealing with the matter; and that the commanding officer was per fectly justified in allowing the men to do common duty. —(Hear.) In another account which he had seen, it was stated that the men never did mount guard; but whether this was the ca se or not, was of very little importance. They were never under fire; and he had no doubt that if they had it would have been re garded by all parties as an extenuating circumstance.— (Hear, hear.) He did not see that anything would be gained by inquiry into this matter, and certainly be was not inclined, except for reasons much more strong than any urged by the Honoursble Gentleman, to lay the papers before the House. It was very seldom that the proceedings of courts-martial were inquired into by that House, and he saw no reason for doing so in the present instance. He might just state, befor e conclud ing, that the parties who hact been pardoned were so favoured in couss quence of subsequent good conduct. It was thought better, after justice had been administered in the case of two individuals, to extend mercy to the others, so that no undue severity should take place. For the reasons he had stated he could not consent to the presentation of the papers.—(llear.) Mr. J. O'CONNELL believed that gross illegality had been practised in this case, because by the 7th article of war not less then 13 members should sit on a court martial, unless it was held in the territory of Fort St. George, whereas only seven had sat in the court which tried these men.—(Hear.) He thought this a fair case for inquiry. Mr. lILTME thought it was of consequence to know who ordered the batta to be discontinued, because it ap peared that that was the cause of the dissatisfaction which led to the mutiny.—(llear.) The court-martial was clea'rly an illegal court, and he did not understand how in India nine months (lapsed, and a sufficient num er of officers could not be got to try the parties.— (TT, t . r y ,n , rt Pn mricr Government of the Right ilor - (:sh. R. Peel), he should like to hear from nun a state ment of the facts. As to the petition of Mr. Lewin, he did not see that it had anything to do with the matter; for, though he had libelled the whole House, it would not affect the question before them. He must say he thought this a fair subject for inquiry. He wished to know why, after a period of nine months, the parties were brought to trial, and that before an illegal tribu nal; and why, after this illegal trial, they were ex ecuted.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. ELLIOT said, no doubt the withdrawal of the batta was a very natural cause of discontent; but the cause of the mistake which led to it was explained to the regiment only two days after it had occurred, so that there was ample time for the removal of all feeling of discontent on that ground. As to what had been said h respect to the parties doing common duty after the mutiny, it should be borne in mind that it was not known who the persons implicated were till after inquiry. It was only then that the ringleaders were known, and they were immediately put under arrest and ordered to be tried by court martial. Mr. AGLIONBY thought it was perhaps to be re gretted that a matter which dated back so many years should have been revived when its revival might do no good. But the question having been raised, especially with reference to the legality of the court-martial, he thought some further explanation was duo to the House than that accorded by the Right Hon. Gentleman. Sir R. PEEL had not expected that the motion under discussion would have been brought forward that even ing, otherwise he would have made himself master of the facts, the case having occurred when the Govern. ment of which he was a member held office, and he should then have been able to respond to the appeal of the Hon. Member for Montrose. He had no recollec tion of the facts of the case as enabled him to enter on the merits, but he would give his vote on grounds sug gested by the circumstances in which the case was pre sented. In all those cases great confidence must be placed, and great allowances must be made for the cir cumstances under which individuals were placed with respect to military questions. From all he had seen, heard, or known of the Marquis of Tweeddale during a long and distinguished career under the Duke of Wel , lington, he felt as strong a conviction as he could with respect to any officer, that the Noble Lord was the last man in the world who would have been guilty of oppres sion, or could have been charged with an excess of mi litary discipline. His tendencies were tendencies of kindness towards the soldier. But what was to - be done when those papers were got? It had been stated that there was no sudden instantaneous act of severity. The proceedings might have been the result of impulse, not of deliberation; but it was stated that there had been an interval of nine months, that the sentence was carried into effect against two of the parties only, and they were I ringleaders. All those facts produced a presumption in his mind, without an exact recollection of the circum stances, that there had been no unnecessary severity. — (Hear, But, further, it was stated that the Com mander-in-Chief (the Duke of Wellington) had per sonally examined the facts of the case, and had pro nounced a deliberate judgment that the sentence was perfectly justifiable. Hon. Gentlemen might disregard the opinion of the Duke of Wellington; but the question for the House of Commons to consider was really a question of authority and jurisdiction. If they chose to supersede the Commander-in Chief in the discharge of his peculiar functions, the British army would be much less satisfied with their decisions.—(Hear, hear.) On the grounds he had stated he could safely deprecate the constitution of a precedent, now for the first time pro. posed to be introduced, by the House of Commons un dertaking to revise the sentence of an Indian court martial. After a few words of explanation from Mr. AG LIONBY, The ATTORNEY GENERAL begged to remind the Hon. Member for Youghal of the consequences which his legal experience ought to satisfy him would follow on the production of these papers. Was he to refer them to a Select Committee of unpractised Mem bers to determine whether there was an illegal defect in the court-martial? The precedent would be a most dan gerous one and destructive of all subordination in the army. Might not the Hon. Member for Cockermouth have given the Government credit for having directed attention to the legality of the proceedings; and was the House on a bare motion for papers to commit itself to referring the question to a Select Committee whether murder had been committed or not? _ _ . Mr. ANSTEY briefly replied. He maintained that Lord Brudenell's case afforded a precedent for inquiry. The House divided, when there appeared— For the motion ... Against it ... Majority ••• SCHOOL OF DESIGN. 14 54 -40 On the motion of Mr. M. GIBSON, the following gen tlemen were nominated members of the Select Commit tee on the School of Design:—Sir R. Peel, Sir G. Clerk, Mr. Milnes, Mr. Moffatt, Mr. Labouchere, Mr. Rich, Mr.Wakley, Mr. M. Gibson, Mr. Hope. Mr. Scholefield, and Mr. Kershaw. eROTECTION OF JUSTICES (IRELAND) BILL. The report on the Protection of Justices (Ireland) Bill was brought up and agreed to. _ On the question that the Bill should be read a third time to-morrow, Mr. J. O'CONNELL expressed his objection to the Bill, and moved as an amendment that it be read a third time to-morrow six months. After some remarks in approval of the Bill from Sir W. Somerville, Major Blackall, and Mr. M. J. O'Con nell, the House divided, and the numbers were— For the amendment 2 Against it Majority The original motion was agreed to, and the House ad journed at Eleven o'clock. HOUSE OF LORDS, March 22. ROYAL COMMISSION. Their Lordships assembled at Four o'clock. The Royal Assent was given this day by Commission to the Overseers (Cities and Boroughs) Bill. The Royal Commissioners were the Lord Chancellor, the Marquis of Clanricarde, and Lord Campbell. Their Lordships then adjourned during pleasure. Their Lordships resumed at Five o'clock. Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from the Society for the Protection of Trade praying for an ex tension of the County Courts. The Duke of RICHMOND presented several petitions complaining of agricultural distress, and praying for re lief from local taxation. The Earl of ERNE presented a petition from some unions in the county of Donegal against the rate in aid. The Earl of MALMESBURY presented a petition against the Petty Sessions Bill, and gave notice of an amendment which he intended to move in the preamble of the Bill to-morrow. The Earl of WICKLOW presented several petitions against the rate in aid. OUT-DOOR PAUPERS BILL. Their Lordships then went into Committee on this Bill. The Duke of RICHMOND thought that houses in which paupers were farmed should be placed under the regulation of the Poor-law Commissioners in the same manner as union houses, and he should propose a clause to the effect; but he objected to the practice of farming out paupers, and would wish to see it abolished. The Earl of CARLISLE thought it would be difficult to abolish the system, and while it existed, certainly it ought to be under stringent regulations. Lord BEAUMONT considered this Bill would do away with the whole of the evils of the system of farm ing paupers. The clause proposed by the Duke of RICHMOND was negatived without a division, and the Bill passed through Committee. NORTH WALES RAILWAY. On the motion of Lord MONTEAGLE, the order for the attendance of Mr. W. Chadwick and Mr. J. Marriner was discharged, and they were ordered to attend this day week. Presentations had been made to the Court of Turin, and ,ble Marquis ba(i stketi rqt,solit rg h;,(1 . ~ ;~: esef F -' tleeredis ho eeuel 'lll, the pipers uesvc his Noble Friend that great. remissness had been shown in doing anything, and that that little could not have produced any possible effect. The first in• timation made to the Sardinian Government was in March, 1848, 'expressing the alttisfaction of th Government at the assurances of the Court Turin, that they would not interfere either- in the affairs of France or in those of Italy, and on the 27th March the King of Sardinia and the Sardinian army crossed the frontier, and the Marquis of Pereto declared to the British Minister that Sardinia entered into the war to drive Martini from Italy, and to assist tho Provisional Government of Lombardy, where upon the British Minister was instructed to remind the Sardinian Government that the war in which they bad entered was one of doubtful issue. It was true advice was given to the King of Sardinia not to go to war e ith Austria. The advice might have been given had the wer . been just, but he found no remonstrance against the in justice of the war, no protest against the violation of treaties on the part of the King of Sardinia. The King of Sardinia was not only an acceding party to the treaty of Vienna, but ,he was under an engagement to this country, as well as to all Europe, to maintain the provisions of that treaty, and therefore its violation by him called for a protest in strong language. Therefore, in addition to that violation of the public law, and that act of scandalous violation of the peace of which the King of Sardinia had been guilty without any assignable cause or pretext, it was a breach of an engagement en tered into specifically with this country; and the least that the British Government could have done would have been to have entered a formal protest against it. There was a recent example of the same kind. Not long before, Austria, Russia, and Prussia had taken measures to deprive Cracow of its independence. That was an act of comparatively trifling importance as com pared with the war. in Italy; but the Governments of France and England thought the three powers alluded to had violated the treaty of Vienna. That there had been great provocation on the part of that state could not be denied, and the three powers declared that they had not violated the treaty, but England and France considered that they had, and they lost not a moment in entering a strong official protest against it. Here, then, was an example which ought, for every reason, to have been followed.—(Hear, hear.) Much had been said as to the treaty of Vienna, and there appeared to be a good deal of uncertainty about the application of that treaty. He would, however, express what his notions were on the subject. In the first place, all parties either contracting or acceding to that treaty were, bound by precisely the same obligation. He thought there was a moral gua rantee given by every Power, whether signing or acced ing, to preserve and cause to be preserved the terms of that ti eaty. He considered that any violation of that treaty, strictly speaking, might be a cause of war, but of course it would depend on the view the party injured might take of his own interests. But that some notice ought to be taken of an infraction of the treaty there Gould be no doubt—whether it should be by recalling the Minister of the offended Power, or by what other means, must depend on the feeling entertained.— (Hear.) He fully admitted that neither England nor any other state was bound to make com mon cause with any other party who might be injured. There were special guarantees which were on a different footing—there were special guarantees con• tained in that very treaty, the conditions of which, if violated, must be redressed by war. Fortunately, this country had always felt great reluctance to enter into special guarantees. They had avoided all guarantees of that description, and be hoped they would continue to do so.—(Hear, hear.) To proceed with a narrative of the war:—The remonstrances being of such a nature, had produced no effect, and the war thus iniquitously begun continued at first with success to the Sardinian arms. In the distracted state of Austria—with a revolution in her capital, without resources, without instructions, without order, the Austrian army was, for a time, cempletely paralysed. In this emergency, the government at Vienna, still relying on the alliance which had so long existed between that country and this, sent a mes senger to England in order to induce us to mediate, and restore peace. He did not know accurately how that mission had been received, but he had seen re ferences made to Austrian dispatches, which he presumed were authentic. The proposals, however, made by the Austrian Government were not sufficient to satisfy the exigencies of her Majesty's Government. Still further concessions were required; and although Austria offered to surrender the whole of Lombardy, and recognise her independence, that was not thought sufficient to satisfy our friend, if ho must call him so, the King of Sardinia. Happily for Austria, the conditions were refused, because shortly after the Austrian army having been reinforced in Italy, and a better spirit prevailing in the Austrian councils, the offensive was resumed, and the Austrian general, Radetzky, drove his enemies before him until the Austrians had crossed their own territory, showing ae much energy and vigour as when he (the Earl of Aberdeen) had before seen him himself at the head of his victorious hussars.--(near, hear.) On arriving at the Pie imontese territory, he with rare prudence and generosity abstained from following his beaten enemy into his own territory.—(Hear, hear.) He granted en armistice to the King of Sardinia, with a view to the settlement of the terms of peace; which, indeed, would have been an ,easy matter, and have required but little time to accomplish if England and France had not in a few days offered their mediation. This was eagerly accepted by the King of Sardinia. and, after some hesitation, by Austria. This mediation, how ever, offered no prospect of any satisfactory result. But when two powers agreed to offer mediation it was very essential that their interests should be identical.—(Hear, hear.) It was quite clear that England and France both sincerely desired the restoration of peace; but it was not at all clear that their interests in the north of Italy were identical. On the contrary, the interest of England had always been to see the north of Italy forming as strong a barrier as possible; and this was effected by the treaty of Vienna, bringing the great military power of Austria into contact with the keeper of the passes of the Alps, and thus a formidable barrier was opposed to any foreign aggressor. Now, it had always been the interest of France to weaken that barrier, and that could never have been done so effectually as by weakening the power of Austria in Italy.—(Hear.) He thought, therefore. that there was no prospect of a satisfactory issue, even if it had been undertaken on the most practical grounds. But when one considered what was the subject, and what they were to confer about, it was difficult to understand how any conclusion could have been arrived at. As Austria from the first declared that she was not dis posed to cede a single inch of that territory which she had obtained by such sacrifices, he did not see what there was to stipulate. It reminded him of the inter ference in the case of Switzerland, where, with more ingenuity than good faith, we contrived to put the war at an end before the mediation commenced. And so here as to Austria it might well have been said that the war was at an end. Austria did not wish to follow the King of Sardinia, and he might think himself fortunate to be allowed to retain his own territory. This war being at an end, he had no doubt her Majesty's Government had made more strenuous efforts to prevent its renewal than they made when it first broke out; but it appeared that such efforts had been ineffectual. Now, what was it that her Majesty's Government proposed to do ? Such was their position that it was impossible anyone could believe their sincerity in objecting to the war, which had been undertaken by the King of Sardinia. Seeing the violation of the general treaty of Vienna, which was equally binding at this mo ment seeing, especially, the engagement which the King of Sardinia had made with this country—in addition to which, seeing his contempt for the mediating powers—and which mediation was his very salvation.— (Hear, hear.) Seeing all this, no one would believe the sincerity of her Majesty's Government unless they re called her Majesty's Minister from Turin.—(Hear, hear.) He held in his hand a manifesto from the Sar dinian Government, which for its inconsistency and audacity was unparalleled.— (Hear, hear.) It was full of fine words of honour and good faith ; and he should have thought such words would almost have paralysed the hand which indicted them.—(Hear, hear.) It rejected at once all treaties, ancient and modern, considering them all us good for nothing, and quite forgetting that it was only by treaties that the King of Sardinia held possession of Genoa—(llear, hear)—that it was only by the treaty of Vienna that he was not now in his island of Sardinia.—(Hear, hear.) This mode of treating all engagements showed the desperation, madness, and utter want of good faith of the King of Sardinia.— (Hear.) Ho accused Austria of a violation of the armis tice, when it was notorious that, from the first, the vio lation had been or: the part of Sardinia. For instance, the continuance of the fleet in the Adriatic contrary to the express stipulations.—(Hear, hear.) But he had no doubt they should soon see a satisfactory reply to this extraordinary document by Austria. There was just one passage which he would read. It said—" And hay ing weighed all the chances, examined the remote and immediate causes of the last events, it has come to the conviction that it is not less necessary for Upper Italy than for the whole of the Peni nsu l a , t o be delivered from the present state, in which otherwise the most important conditions of political and social existence would be placed in jeopardy. After all these considerations, the Sardinian Government saw that there was but cue h e course open to it; it had no choice but war, and decided accordingly." Now, this was , t o use a homely _ but expressive English saying, neither more ir , ° E n e le a s r, than " Needs must when the d—l drires. ( hear," and great laughter.) That unhappy Sovereign himself—he, was was impelled by a force greater than a tool and an instrument iu the hands of others, a who were hostile to him; and if he wore to succeed in driving the Austrian army out of Italy to-morrow, his difficulties would be onl y then begun.—(Hear, hear.) Notv.ithstanding a ll the manifesto contained, their Lord ships had heard nothing of the slavery of the Italian subjects. The llou,e used to hear a good deal of the leaden and iron sceptre of Austria, and such like figures; hut he beli,v,ed that the Austrian provinces had long been the best adininiA?red of any part of Italy. Con • stitutiou they had nut, but property was secure, justice was administered between man and man with as much purity and impartiality as in any country in Europe. They bed now, or would shortly have, a constitution as free as heart could desire. He only:hoped.and trusted they might be as happy and as prosperous with a constitution as they had been without one; but, however, that con stitution they would have, and he could not help taking that opportunity of expressing the joy he felt that the Austrian empire possessed statesmen having the boldness and the ability to frame such a Constitution at the present time. He rejoiced to say that this noble work—for noble it was—would probably be promulgated through Italy as well as other parts of Europe; and he hoped, for the sake of the Continent, and especially for that of England, that Austria might, under the Consti tion, enter upon a long career of happine ss an d glory.— (Cheers.) If the Noble Marquis should tell him that the correspondence to which ho allhded co u ld e ibt be pro:: duced at the present moment with convenience, he (the NORTH OF ITALY. The Earl of ABERDEEN rose to draw the attention of their Lordships to the state of affairs in the north of Italy. He had long feared, from the attitude assumed by the Sardinian Government, that the war would be renewed, but he had abstained from drawing their Lordships' attention to the subject so long as any chance remained of peace being preserved, or of the Brussels congress taking place. He moved for the production of any correspondence which had taken place between her Majesty's Government and any other Powers with a view to the preservation of peace. Ile dis approved of the course of policy pursued by our Government in the north and south of Italy. It was now just twelve months since the King of Sardinia had, with perfidy unparalleled, invaded the territories of Austria in Italy without a declaration of war, and without the allegation of any grievance or injury. He would, before going further, allude to the position of her Majesty's Govern ment between the contending parties. Last year two dispatches from Prince Metternich, dated 2d Au gust, 1847, declaring that the Emperor of Austria had no object in view in his proceeding but to secure the observance of the treaty of 1815, and the answer of Lord Palmerston recalled the attention of Prince Metternich to the right which the independent Italian States possessed of introducing reforms in the in ternal administrations. Her Majesty's Government, en tertaining an idea that the Austrian Government enter tained ambitious views of aggression and encroach ment in Italy, instructed the Minister at Vienna to represent to the Austrian Government the hope that Austria did not entertain views of aggression on Sardinia or the Pope, and reminding the Austrian Government of the ethane( s existing between this coun try and Sardinia, and that it could not look with indif ference on uny aggression by Austria against the King of Sardinia. Six months after, in the month of August, on the motion of his Noble and Learned Friend, the answer to the dispatch was produced, in which Prince Metternich assented to the justice of the principle laid down of non-interference in the inter nal affairs oi . the Italian states, and declaring the rea diness of Austria to place herself by the side ot Grea t Britain in order to &fend Sardinia against foreign aggres s ion. The Go vernment had been in possession ot this answer twelve months before they laid it before the House. How, then, while in possession of such an answer could the . Govern ment take credit for having sto pp ed Austrian aggres sion. That answer ought to have been produced at the same time with the other dispatches, and the non production of .it could not but excite feelings of indignation in...the . Austrian Government. It was a suppression of . the... truth amounting, in fact, tosansessertion of that which was actually false. He acquitted the Noble Marquis of all blame in this transac tion, to which he would not have lent him self had he been aware of the nature of it. He (the Earl of Aberdeen) had asked if similar rc- S U N A I e b i Earl 1 • 0 f Aberdeen) was perfectly ready - not to, 1 it s ereductien. Some time or other h e p G r t e yv :su eru eeld. Ili her Alaje s . y ' s eroduee ali he documents explaeatory of the w Cileses-147 - it proceeding connected with the war. Considering w - had taken place, ho felt it incumbent on him to asove*ReTVlT their production now, but, as he said before, he was -eilling.not to press for their being immediately laisl upon the table, if the Noble Marquis should find it inconve nient to submit them to the House.—(Hear, hear.) The:Marquis of LANSDOWNE, who was very indis tinctly heard, said he had heard with great plea.sUret the conclusion of the speech of the Noble Earl, because the. immediate production of the papers would kettende4 with some inconvenience. He believed the monetweas approaching when their production would be inPspen sable for the credit of her Majesty's Government and the satisfacti on o f the country, He thought the Govern ment were fully justified in taking a most ample, full, and coinprehgnsive view of all ihe negotiations had precydui the armistice at Turin : nod though lutii4 not prokse to enter into any subject, lengthened detail upon tti;,t yet he w , uld tele° the liberty of brig fly adverts ing to it. The Noble Earl had commenced his speech by alluding not to any recent negotiations, not to any papers which he was now desirous of possessing, but to certain documents which last year were laid upon the table of . the House, and from these ha had inferred that a disposition then existed upon the part of her Majesty's Government unfa vourable to the Austrian empire. Now such an infer ence was not deducible from the documents in question. The Noble Earl would remember that at the time they were laid upon the table a very remarkable state of things existed upon the Continent; and yet he appeared to forget and to suppress the fact, so far as he could„ dint in the interim between the original communications and those now sought for, there had occurred an extraordi nary event,—namely, the revolution et Paris.—(Hear, hear.) Ho need only appeal to the sound judgment of the Noble Earl, and to that matured spirit of states manship which he was at, all times able to display; and ask whether there was one relation subsisting in Europe, or one course of _conduct between one countryand ano ther which by, such an event as She_ one he. referred to was not liable to be altered and, modified, and which did not in fact require an ample review to be made after the occurrence took place to avert the consequences it ;involved?—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Earl had per ferred to 'a dispatch which had not been laid upon. the table, but which he said he had perused. Lord BROUGHAM said the Noble Marquis was under a misapprehension. The dispatch had been laid upon the table; it was produced on a motion submitted last year. The Earl of ABERDEEN observed that the Noble Marquis had laid a dispatch upon the table in the first instance, which ended with a threat against Austria for a supposed interference on her part with Sardinia. That threat might have been deserved. Six months afterwards, however, Austria sent an answer, in which she not only denied that she entertained any such intentions, but stated her readiness to act on the side of Great Britain in abstaining from interference. He (the Earl of Aber deen) contended that it was a suppressio serf not to pro duce that communication when the other dispatch was laid on the table. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE was under the impression that the communication had been immediately produced; but, at all events, when the original dispatch was laid upon the table a very general apprehension prevailed that Austria was pre pared to interfere is the affairs of Sardinia, and it was an object with her Majesty's Government to remove that apprehension. In that attempt they succeeded. A communication was sent to the Austrian Government which stated fully and explicitly what the views of this country were as to the formation of independent states,- and, at this distance of time, looking back to that dis patch, he (the Marquis of Lansdowne) saw nothing in its style or composition to cause the slightest regret.— (Hear, hear.) But as he had stated before, the late re volution in France must not be forgotten in considering the details of the present question. That revolution dis played itself in colours which impressed the world with alarm, and imposed new duties on France and a new mode of executing those duties. It also imposed a duty upon her Majesty's Government, to maintain a good un derstanding between this country and France. But the Noble Earl's reason for not coming to an understanding with France, or, at least, for not joining with her, was somewhat singular. He -said—" I admit that France and you had at the moment, a similar in terest in preserving peace, and that you had a right to believe that the French Government were kindly dis posed; but the motives of the two countries were different, for, had there been a war in Italy, France would , be obliged to take a different course from you." But as France was ready to act with England up to the point of preserving peace, and to forego any designs she might have in the event of war, why should the Noble Earl think it injudicious to invite France to join in a media tion?—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Earl had a right to comment on what hohad read, but he was not justified in commenting upon official and authentic communica tions which he had not seen, because they had not hitherto been laid upon the table; and yet, in adverting to the conditions involved in the negotiations, he seemed to think that the terms which were pro posed by England to Austria as the foundation of the mediation, were not such as to satisfy the exigencies of this country. But where did the Noble Earl find that we had any exigencies, or where would any testimony bearing on that point be derived from the papers Throughout hereafter e r wholeto be ot t h produced e t r a n t 0 — os ( enagria hadrie hear acted with perfect -fairness, .and what was inVidlinu3ly called an exigency consisted merely of the, conditions upon which the mediation was likely to beit effected. Would the Noble Earl, who had had much to do with mediations before, and might have much to do with them again—would he enter into a negotiation upon any other ground than that which was most likely to bring both parties to a proper understanding? Because, if a mediation were undertaken, and neither party ,would give way, there would be - an end to all;expectation of compromise. A mediation was founded on a belief that two parties, from circumstances, had got into a state in which they could not make peace for themselves, but in which they were desirous for peace, arid called in a third party to state the extent of mutual concessions. If there was any case in which the princi ple of mediation was applicable more than in any other, it was in that of Austria. There had been a sanguinary alienation then existing, and at the moment when the honour of that country was supposed to be more or less compromised in the result of the contest, it was con sidered possible that the intervention of two such powers as France and England would be successful in extricat ing the parties fronithe difficulties in . which they were involved with honour to. themselves. He was happy to state that the official documents when produced would dispoie of many of the unathentic dispatches which, like base coin, had been circulated throughout Europe filling the columns of the newspapers, and causing much mis apprehension to exist with reference to' the parties who had, in reality, proposed the abandonment of Lom bardy.—(Hear, hear.) If hostilities should recommence, certainly it would not be for want of the best exertion of France and England to prevent them. Every means had been - - - -used by the GOvernments of the two powers to induce the King of Sardinia to recon sider his determination. At the same time he was not quite prepared - to - employ such very strong language as the Noble Earl had though it.right to use, in reference to the course taken by that Power; for he could not but believe that there were circumstances to afford the Icing of Sardinia, he would not say a justification, he would hardly say an excuse, but somethin;-like palliation, by events which had occurred in the disordered state of the country, and the demands of his subject's. It was easy for Noble Lords, or for persons sitting in Downing street now to sit down, and, looking over the events of the past years, apply to them the strict rule of diplomatic intercourse and international action; but in defence, not of the Government of Sardinia only, but of all Govern ments, he submitted, that when the events arose by which continental Europe had during the last year been convulsed—when those Governments saw the clouds lowering and the stor iii breaking—threatening solia - With immediate, others with remote, subversion and destruction, to the course taken at such a time and under such cir cumstances those rules in all their severity and all their strictness were not altogether applicable; he knew not one of The Governments which had been affected by those events whose acts would bear that strict test- not even that of Austria, one of the oldest and sg. gilgacd ettt te a Europe. He did not thi n k that that'Governme,s_ ow a upon as it was by th e e vents of last year, cou ld course of perfect consistency, either in reference transactions of _Europe generallyt or n _o He knew that every e mpire, espec iall y one so situated,eG erm to wi the y. was bound to bow t the feelings of the gr e a t ma s s of the people; but if, control,' it was drive_ uo se su rely some indulgeneesbould by the ut fo o r f ce iotsf habitual,even ts i t prcoopuelrd; andn ot str i ct l y honourable cour, be extended . f to it; and so with regard to a powerful an d strong Government like that of Austria, how much more should such indulgence be extended to a smaller • an d weaker Government, if, when driven by currents'it found impossible to stem, it pursued a course which, on strict principles, could not be justified?—(Hear ie hear.) He did Ina mean to justify the conductever - _the Sardinian Government, but the Government of Aus .tria, 'having assented, as it clearly did, to the pro posed mediation, had given the strongest-proof of that assent by negotiating month after month as to the par ticular place in which the mediation should take place; having nevertheless, after appointing a person td,:itton duct it on her part, and after her assent had been con tinued six months, suddenly refused the necessary powers to give effect to the mediation, it had given, if, not a sufficient excuse, at letana palliation for the con-. duct of *Sardinia in 'entering into that which might bo long and must be an unfortunate war.—(Hea r' ht , v The Governments of England "rind France would, se' r.t i .. scever the result,- have the satisfaction to rcfl4 , they had done all in their power to prevent the r lion of hostilities and to avert the evils of; ~ ,et :r. u t ml i p a s t. was a gratifying circumstance, an d i n e , , • Ir. 1 nclusi n he would observe that it was of th e greataet, p ce to Europe and to the world, a n d t h e b eit itl° securityi rt a f or the restoration of peace, sh ou ld war u e s eet ueatelypeace, have broken out, and for th e f uture preservation of shoulden dea v cr be t o maintainfo un d c t !: t o p : ed e a t eo h ne e c. r : ( to , strh then,hear.) He looked f orwar d with oe time when, by the joint exertions of the Governments of those two countries—by their uniting in the same policy, and making peace their sole object—the general peace of Europe would be restored and preserved.—(Hear, hear.) He had only further to assure the Noble Earl and the House that the papers connected with the negotiations should, at the proper time, be laid before the Rouse. Lord BROUGHAM heartily agreed in two of tale propositions laid down by the Noble Marquis—th e one the importance t o the p eace of Eur ope, and the beet in terests of this country, of preservin g a good under iltßa,;d.. ing with France (and he gave credit to his Noble Friends -opposite for their successful junction with Frar in the * hn doubtfnl matter of the, Sardi n i an Eno ice' eve .tion)—t e ~; .\,,...:., iii!l,.,i,, Vlo' 18 46 184 6, e fold• with ►I e2c r vent)" irkeY Nor, mo re re of w hat 3 g to Lanu- wing Dorn .ured ; it pre 1e of i 1 30 Of 11117 \ `,. , ~