The Sun. — London, England, 1849-03-28 00:00:00

'~~"' te e c f mus t t the Ming sate d at 1 1 !con° Mr. BERNAL OSBORNE said this was a question altogether independent of blue books, and one which should be taken on the broad ground of religious liberty. —(hean) The tax called ministers' money was levied in eleven towns in the south of Ireland, while the pro vince of Ulster was altogether exempted from its operation. The reason of that exemption was, that when the Act was passed in the reign of Anne the people of Ulster would not have submitted to it. He was surprised that the Catholics of Ireland should come before the House in the humble tone they adopted on such a subject.—(Hear.) If he were a Catholic, he would not only bring the matter before that House, but he would agitate elsewhere in such a manner as would soon call attention to it, end compel a remedy being ap plied to such an enormous abuse.—(Hear.) It was said that the tax only amounted to 13.0001., but what had the amount to do with the matter. Was the sum for which Hampden took his stand in defence of popular rights ever made a subject of inquiry?—(Hear.) Ireland, and especially the south of Ireland, was a Catholic country, and by what tight did they assume to themselves the power of saying that in this, the 19. h century, the Catholics should be called upon to make provision for the support of certain Protestant parishes?—(Loud cries of " Hear.") He had himself been present on an occa sion in the south of Ireland when a clergyman of the Established Church, who had formerly been a Catholic, preached a SiTMOD, and he had heard that clergyman, who was receiving ministers' money, call his Catholic fellow-countrymen vagabonds. The Hon. Member for Dublin (Mr. Grogan) had talked much about tho ne cessity of upholding the Protestaut Establishment, but the fact was that the question was one simply of pounds, shillings, and pence. Ile (Mr. B. Osborne) would tell Hon. Members who were co sensitive about the Esta blishment, that if they adapted the Church to the wants of the Protestant portion of the population, they would make it much more prosperous, and would much more effectually advance its interests.—(Hear, hear.) He supported his Hon. Friend (Mr. Fagan) on the question of ministers' money, because he considered it a disgrace to the civilised world that such a tax should be imposed. When they were passing coercive measures for Ireland, he had a right to ask why Ministers had not come down with a Bill for the abolition of this disgraceful impost.— (Hear, hear.) One of the ablest Members of that House, and one who was a member of her Majesty's Go vernment, the Hon. Member for Dungarvon (Mr. Sheil), had drawn up a report as Chairman of the Committee which had been appointed on the subject of ministers' money. But nothing had as yet been done upon the subject. If no Hon. Member brought forward a motion on the subject he would himself do so on an early day, and in the meantime he would give his support to the Bon. Member for Cora (Mr. Fagan). _ _ Sir GEORGE GREY said - that the Honourable I Member who just sat down addressed the House in a far different spirit from the Hon. Member who pre• ceded him, for the Honourable Member expressed a wish that the Protestant Church of Ireland should be entirely abolished. Mr. 13. OSBORNE disclaimed any such intention. He was for a measure similar to that proposed by the ap propriation clause, but not that it should be abolished. Sir GEORGE GREY continued—The Hon. Member, then, was only for the abolition of ministers' money, and not for that of the church ; but if the Honourable , Member looked to the concluding paragraph of the re port made to the House he would see that no substi tute was recommended in place of that which now ex isted. A Roman Catholic clergyman of Cork, examined before the Committee, stated from his experience as a member of a relief committee, that in his opinion the feeling of the Protestant clergy was entirely averse to the manner in which ministers' money was now paid. He (Sir George Gray) agreed with much that had been laid down in the report with regard to the payment of ministers' money and the mode of doing so, particularly in Scotland, where the practice existed since the reign of Charles the Second; and ho was, therefore, not disposed to dispute what it said; but the difficulty was to provide something in its stead. What the Committee stated was, that there may be such an increase in the funds in the hands of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners. as to enable them to place the charge on that fund. That, however, was not the case, and until they could see their way, he was not prepared to accede to the motion. He had not had time to read the entire of the evidence, but the Dean of Limerick said the charge ought to be put on the Church temporalities, while the Rev. Mr. Dalmage thought it ought to be taken out of the Consolidated Fund. For his own part, he was inclined to accede to the view of the Dean of Limerick; but as there were no funds available at present to carry that suggestion into effect, he would not oppose the motion by a direct nega tive, but move the previous question. The question having been put from the Chair, Mr. 11. GRATTAN said he was born a Protestant, he lived a Protestant, and he trusted he should die a Pro testant; but, considering the state of that Church in Ire land, whose service was not in many localities performed for three years, where grass was found to grow before the church doors, so small was the number who entered them, and so seldom service performed, that he thought the system a disgrace to the Protestant religion. In a parish in Wicklow, with which he was acquainted, there was only one Protestant residing in it, and he had two wives. --(Laughter.) Now ho (Mr. Grattan) was taxed to pay 400/. a year to save his soul, which was not, as everybody knew, worth saving.—(Roars of laughter.) That was the absurdity of the whole system. Let it be supported by the kindly feelings and religious senti ments of Protestants themselves, and not compel Roman Catholics to do so. Nothing so disgusted him as the hypocrisy, and cant, and humbug, carried on in that House.—(Cries of " Oh, oh.") The Hon. Member for Middlesex said " Oh, oh," but he should say " Aye, aye." He was longer a member than the Hon. Member, and ho should repeat that lie was disgusted by the conduct pur sued in that house. The Protestant clergy of Ireland sent their children to Rugby and Oxford to be educated there; they went themselves to Bath and Cheltenham to amuse themselves, while poor curates were compelled to do duty for 501. a year.—(Hear, bear.) A Protestant Bishop was found in a pulpit in Ireland to say that the Catholic religion was the religion of the d---1; and that was the way they acted, first abusing, aed then swindling the Catholic people out of their properties. Sir JOHN YOUNG observed that the Eight Hon. Gentlemen the Secretary of State for the Home Depart ment read a report to the House from a Committee ap pointed on the subject, but he should tell the House that the minority on that Committee was five, while the ma jority was only seven; thus entitling, at all exents, the minority to a respectful consideration. It must be appa rent to every one, that it the charge of ministers' money were given up, the result would be like the reduction of 25 per cent. which took place on tithes some years ago, that the amount would go into the landlord's pocket, as the 25 per cent. ot' tithes did. Mr. 11. GRATTAN denied that a penny of the 25 per cent. went to the landlords. Sir JOHN YOUNG contended that it did in almost every instance ; and as to the objection made—that many were charged with the ministers' money who had no property, a new valuation would care the defect. Mr. D. CALLAGHAN said that every Protestant clergyman examined before the Committee on the sub. ject spoke against it, and denounced it in the strongest terms. He himself knew an instance of a parish where the number of Protestants consisted of the parish clerk, the churchwardens, and six women, all of whom were pregnant by the churchwardens; and in another case the clergyman had to make his K ife the church A arden. Mr. KERSHAW expressed the pain with which ho had heard the religion of the country treated in the de bate that night. If they could not treat the subject otherwise the sooner such debates were banished from the House the better. He agreed with those who thought the Church, as by law established in Ireland, was the bane of that country.—(Oh, and cheers.) He repeated that it was the bane of that country.—(Hear, hear.) It was a gross injustice to the Catholics of Ireland that they should be compelled to support the church of the minority.—(Hear, hear.) He wished to see religion placed upon the voluntary principle, both in Ireland and en this country, and the sooner that was done the better, as he believed it would put an end to all discussions about mere pelf, and promote true religious feeling throughout the country. Mr. NEWDEGATE could not hear without instant contradiction that the Church in Ireland did not do its duty. In the time of distress the clergy of that Church had nobly done their duty in that great emergency. But in speaking of this subject, he was obliged to revert with pain to a point which he had formerly brought under the attention of the House, namely, the bringing forward questions affecting the Protestant Church by Roman Catholic Members, in defiance of the plain mean ing and sense of the oath which they took on their ad mission to that House. Now they had had the distinct admission of three Hon. Members that this was an attack on the Protestant Church, and he could not under stand how these Hon. Members, having taken that oath, could reconcile it to their consciences to support this motion. But he had pledged himself to show that Roman Catholics considered themselves bound by no oaths which were detrimental to the interests of their own Church, and he was prepared to do so. The Hon. Member having cited several authorities to prove that it was an essential article of the Roman Catholic Church to hold no faith with heretics, in conclusion expressed his belief that the lion. Member who had moved this motion would have done better to have left the matter in the hands of some Protestant Member, as, for instance, the Member for Middlesex ; and he was sure that no Member could have been found more anxious for the destruction of the Protestant Church than that Hon. Member. The Earl of ARUNDEL and SURREY explained that the authorities referred to by the Hon. Member ap plied to illicit oaths only, and with respect to the oath taken by Roman Catholic Members on their admission to that House, great difference of opinion existed as to the construction to be put upon it. The Honourable Member who had brought forward the motion was a Roman Catholic, but he had made no attack on the Church. These attacks had come from Protestant Members. Mr. HUME said if an attempt to remove an abuse was to be construed into an attack on the Church, and upon religion, he bad frequently been guilty of it; and in 1844, when precisely a similar question was before the House, Lord Stanley and other Members who would not be accused of being opposed to the Church, expressed themselves as being strongly opposed to the abuses then pointed out. He wished to ask why did the Right Honourable Baronet move the previous question, as if it was one that ought not to have been put.— (Hear, hear.) Why did he not meet it with a direct negative, if ho was opposed to it, and give the House an opportunity of learning the present opinions of those who sat near him, and who had formerly voted for a much more sweeping measure of reduction in the Irish Church, without considering that they made an attack on that Church. lion. Members had expressed a wish that Church matters shoul.i not be discussed in that Helve. Ii so, let them t - aipp , rt a rnot:.on tt hich was in tended to remove the cease of such diecussion, and take away a continual source of excitement in Ireland. He ___-----f pect 0 t which ight not hat was should would , ins' the as:_es of - .se cow of the should was no ate and t Isere re over' )re con' it in in tght to in large e? Ile on sub' that it t9nta tO of con , nilitarf of that colony it to its i those home desire fourths whose every land to the ec" go sill AEL I potioll ) yerw ~, isua r a ined N ith A in' ! mon: Good THE SUN, had long been of opinion that this was one of th grievances that ought to be removed. lie was happ) the notion had been brought forward by the lion. Member for Cork, and should give it his cordial support. Mr. NAPIER asked tlny.e who said they were ii favour of the rights of courcience to act upon their own principle. He only asked for his Church that it should be maintained in the possession of its property and the right to exercise freely the privilege of individual judgment on religious matters. He was ready to grant these to others and claimed them for him self. But it was always complained that this impost fell upon individuals; whereas, the fact was, that the title of the Church to this property was based upon the same ground as the title to all the property settled upon the plantations in Ulster by the English Sovereign, and the present possessors had taken that property subject to that charge. Unless they could maintain that pro perty charged for a Protestant clergyman could not be taken and enjoyed by Roman Catholics, there was no force in the arguments of those who supported the mo tion. With regard to the maintenance of a National Church, he thought the Noble Lord at the head of the Government had put that question on a right footing, when he said that the maintenance of the Established Church in this country was not for the purpose of main taining any sect of religionists, but as an act of horn:ge to religion itself; and whatever was said as to the Pro testant Church in Ireland, he was ready to place it in proud comparison with any Church in Christendom.-- (Hear, hear.) If they commenced opening up those questions as regarded what was, paid in Ireland for the support of the Protestant Church, they should take care that the discussion of these did not lead to the opening up other questions. They had better take care lest the propriety of the Maynooth Grant was not questioned, for it was double the 511:11 now complained of, and whether it might not be urged that other grants of a like nature ought to be abolished. No man had a higher respect for religious liberty than he lieu, but feeling that the property enjoyed by the Church to which he belonged was originally assigned to it, he thought it would be a direct violation of the principles of religious liberty now to divest it of that property, and he therefore opposed the motion. Mr. REYNOLIS said it was clear that the Honour able Gentleman was a warm defender of the Protestant Church, but he doubted whether the archbishops and bishops of the Church would thank him for the de fence he had made. lie had stated that the Protes taut Church ~ was descended from St. Patrick, but he had been taught from earliest infancy that St. Patrick was a Roman Catholic saint, and consequently could not have been the founder of the Protestant Church. He was not there, however, to discuss that question with the lion. Gentleman—he was there to speak of ministers' money—and he begged to remind the lion. Gentleman that the large revenues which both the Protestant Church in England and Ireland enjoyed were taken from the Roman Catholic Church.—(hear, hear.) He had a double right to complain of this minis ters' money, and for this reason. That money amounted in the aggregate to 15,0001. annually, and 11,000/. of that SUM was paid by the city of Dublin, which ho had the honour to represent, while the remainder was spread over a few towns in other parts of Ireland. His con• stituents, therefore, paying upwards of four-fifths of the sum, he certainly had a right to complain and to insist that that money should be taken from the shoulders of the people, and paid from the proper quarter. Last year he was a member of a Committee appointed to inquire into the subject, arid he regretted that that Committee decided as it did. He was in the minority, and was still more sorry to say that the Right lion. Gentleman the Master of the Mint, who knelt at the same altar with himself, gave the casting vote against his party. The Ecclesiastical Comtni=sioners of Ireland appeared to make a point of spending as much they received, which they could do, nu doubt, if their income was 6,128,0004 instead of 1,628,000/. It should be remembered that this was the richest Church in the world, and as one of the Catholic population of Ireland, he declared that he looked upon the temporalities of that Church as a broad mark of degradation; and that he believed, as an Irish man and a Catholic, that that feeling would exist in Ireland so long as that plague spot was allowed to exist. He should be unworthy, indeed, of the name of a free man and a Christian, if he submitted quietly to this infliction, which he believed would not be tolerated in any other country in the civilized world. The people of England were taxed to support an army of 40,000 men in Ireland. Let them destroy the temporalities of the Established Church, and they might withdraw that force altogether.—(Bear, hear, and cheers.) In conclusion, he called upon the Government to come forward and ♦indicate the rights of Catholics, and put a stop to a system which was everywhere regarded as unjcst and intolerable. Mr. NAPIER said that he rose to put the House right with respect to the statement of the Hon. Member for Dublin, that the revenue of the Ecclesiastical Com missioeers was upwards of 1,200,0001. He would find in the appendix of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners' report that their revenue for the current year was 71,0001.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. JOHN O'CONNELL said, that whatever his views might be upon the real merits of the question, he should not consent to deprive entirely his .Protestant fellow-countrymen in Ireland of their political station. Sir J. TYItELL said that the avowed intention of many Catholic Members of the House being to eradicate the Church Establishment in Ireland, he begged leave to say that he should not be tempted by any topics they had indulged in to follow them into all the details which the debate had just been turning upon. Ho was especially desirous not to give offence to any Catholic Member of the House, but he could not refrain from quoting the opinion expressed upon the subject by Mr. Macaulay, whom they could not sufficiently regret was no longer a Mi nister or a Member. (The Ilon. Member then read an extract from Mr. Macaulay's "History of England," strongly animadverting on the conduck,of the Roman Catholics in several important events recorded in the histories of England and France, which was received by many Irish Members with cheers and laughter, and cries of " Oh, oh.") The Hon. Member repeatedly de clared them to be the opinions of the late Whig Member for Edinburgh, and not his own, and as such entitled to tle respect of the House. The lion. Baronet then quoted the statement made by Mr. Whiteside in his ork upon Italy, that at Rome and throughout the country it was not permitted to record the virtues of deceased persons on their tombstones, without making any allusion to a future state. The Hon. Baronet was frequently interrupted by the Hon. Member for Dublin, and other lion. Members, wi h the cry of " The tempo ralities." The House then divided, when there appeared— Fur the previous question Against it 44 Majority COMMITTEES. Mr. WILSON PATTEN moved that if at any time during the sitting of a Select Committee of this House the quorum of Members fixed by the Hoi.ue shall not be present, the clerk of the Committee shall call the attention of the chairman to the fact, who shall there upon suspend the proceedings of the Committee until a quorum be present, or adjourn the Committee to some future day. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said that great inconvenience arose from Members being on four or five different Com mittees, and he should therefore oppose the motion. Mr. HUME then suggested that the omission should be reported to the House. Sir G. GREY thought that would be attended with great convenience. The motion was then agreed to. Mr. SOTHERON obtained leave to bring in a Bill to make better provision for certifying tables of contri butions to friendly societies, and for ascertaining the solvency of such societies The report on the Ordnance excess was received in Committee of Supply. The Prisoners Removal (Ireland) Bill went through Committee, and the House adjourned at a Quarter past One o'clock. TO THE EDITOR OF THE SUN. SIR,--As I have always - opposed what is called " the reciprocity principle" in every shape, I must beg you to correct the report of the speech which you attribute to me in the debate in Committee on the Navigation Laws. . . In the lew words which I said on the fo,h clause of the Bill I objected to the power retained by the Execu- tive to retaliate upon foreign countries withholding from us the privileges granted to them by Great Britain, and I strongly recommended the Government to withdraw the clause altogether. I am, Sir, your obedient servant, J. LEWIS RICARI)O. Brookes' Club, March 27. [We regret exceedingly the mistake which has occur red, but we understand from our reporter that, in conse quence of the noise prevailing in the House, and of the low tone in which the Hon. Member spoke, it was im possible to hear distinctly in the gallery what the lion. Member said.—ED. Sun.] COURT CIRCULAR. The Judge Advocate. General had an audience of the Queen on Monday, at Buckingham Palace, and sub mitted to her Majesty the proceedings of some courts martial. Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent visited her Majesty yesterday. His Royal Highness Prince Albert rode out on horse back yesterday morning, attended by Colonel Bouverie. The Royal Children rode and walked as usual yes terday. Her Majesty and Prince'Albert honoured the perform ance at the Royal Italian Opera-house with their pre sence yesterday evening. The Royal suite consisted of the Duchess of Sutherland, the Countess of Charle mmt, lion. Miss Dawson, the Marvis of Ormonde, Lord Alfred Paget, and Colonel Bouverie. Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent visited her Majesty the Queen Dowager yesterday, at Marlborough lousy. A deputation, consisting of Mr. Edwin Oswin, chair man of the Ship owners' Towing Company; Mr. Alex ander Willis, from the same company; Messrs. David Ilalket and John Drysdale, from the Caledonian Towing Company; Mr. Griffiths, from the Thames Towing Com pany; and Mr. William Watkins, had an interview with the Right Hon. If. Labouchere yesterday, at the office of the Boarl of Trade. A deputation from the trustees of the Grosvenor-place District, consisting of Lord Castlereagh, M.P.; Mr. Grenville Berkeh4y, M.P.; Mr. 11. N. Turner, Mr. C. Graham, Mr. Robert G. Smith, and Mr. Berry, accom panied by Mr. Geo. A. Walaise, clerk to the trustees, had an interview with the Commissioners of her Ma jesty's Woods and Foresls yesterday, at their office, in Wh Tl4l Marquis or Nonliatlby had au intorVit•W with Lord Jan 11 os::•11 Mr. Ricardo, 151. P., had an interview yesterday with the Right Hon. H. Labouchere. PARLIAMENTARY BUSINESS. (From the Votes and Proceedings of the House of Commons.) TUE3DAY, 27. STANDING ORDERS COMMITTEE. The following Resolutions were reported from the above ttee :- 1. That in the case of the Great Grimsby Corporation and Freemen's Arrangement Bill, petition for additional pro the standing orders ought to be dispensed with : fhat the parties be permitted to introduce their additional provision, if the Committee on the Bill shall think fit. 2. That in the case of the Railway Assurance Company petition for leave to deposit a petition for a Bill, the standing orders ought to be dispensed with :—That the parties be per mitted to deposit a petition for a Bill, provided the same be deposited not later than three clear days after the presenta tion of this report.—Resolutions agreed to. PARLIAMENTARY DIVISIONS. (From the Votes and Proceedings of the House of Conimane.) ITESDIY. MARCH 27. DUBLIN CORPORATION WATERWORKS BILL. Order for second: Reading; read ; Motion made, and Ques tion proposed, "That the Bill be now read a second time." Amendment proposed, to leave out the word " now," and at the end of the Question to add the words "upon this day six months:"—Question put, " That the word now' stand part of the Question." The House divided:— MINORITY—AYES, 31. .tuderson, Arthur Greene, John Pattison, James Armstrong, Sir A. Barris, Richard Pearson, Charles Bass, M. T. llastic, Archibald Scully, Francis Blake. 'Martin J. II eyworth, Lawrence Shell, It. L. Brothcrton, J. MB, Lard Marcus Talbot, J. 11. Brown, 11. Kershaw, James Thompson, Colonel Callaghan, D. Lawless, Cecil Walmsley, Sir I. Ellis, John Loch, James IN'llicox, Brodie Evans, Sir De Lacy Meagher, Thomas . Fagan, William Mahon, O'Gorman TELLERS. Fox, W. J. O'Brien, Timothy Reynolds, John Grace, 0. 1). O'Connor, Feargus O'Connell, J. Grattan, Usury O'Flaherty, Anthony MAJORITY-NOES, 126. idderley, C. B. Glyn, George Carr Mostyn, E. Alexander, N. Goddard, A. L. Mowatt, Francis Anstey, T. C. Graham. Sir James Napier, Joseph Aikwright, George Greene, Thomas Ord, W. Arundel, Earl of Orenfell, C. Pascoe Palmer, Robert Balduck, E. 11. Greaten, Charles W. Peel, Sir Robert Baring, 11. B. Grey, Sir G. Philips, Sir G. R. Bellew, It. M. Grogan, Edward Pilkington, James Berkeley, C. L. G. Hamilton, J. H. Plowden, W. H. Birch, Sir Thomas thistle, Alexander Pryse, Pryso Blackall, S. W. Henley, J. W. Pugh, David Blair, Stephen Herbert, 11. A. Repton, G: W. J. Rourke, R. S. Herbert, Sydney Richards, Richard Bouverle, E. P. Herries, J. C. Rohartes, T. J. Bowles, Admiral Hodges, T. L. Rumbold, C. E. Bramston, T. W. Hodgson, W. N. Rushout, Captain Bremrldge, Richard Hood, Sir A. Russell, I. C. Christy, Samuel Hornby, John' Sadleir, John Cobden, R. Ilotham,'Lord Smith, Vernon Cocks, Thomas S. Howard, - Lord E. Somerville, Sir W. Cole, H. A. Howard, P. H. Sotheron, T. Coles, Henry B. Hume, Joseph Spooner, Richard Craig, W. (I. Jocelyn, Viscount Stafford, AugustuS Deedes, W. Jolliffe, Sir W. G. Stanley, H. 11. Denison, E. B. Jones, Captain Sullivan, Michael Disraeli, B. Kildare,:Marquis of Tancrcd, H. W. Dod, J. W. Lascelles, W. S. Tenison, E. K. Dodd, George Lewis, Sir T. Tennent, F. J. Duckworth, Sir J. Lewis, G. C. Thornely, Thomas Duncan, Viscount Lewisham, Viscount Tynte, Colonel Duncan, George Lincoln, Earl of Tyrell, Sir J. Duncuft, John Lushington, C. Vane, Lord H. Dundas, Sir David Lygou, General Yerner, Sir W. Dundas, George Mackinnon, W. Waddington, 11. S. Ebriugton, Lord Nacnamara, Major Wilson, Matthew Egerton, W. T. Masterman, John Wodehouse, E. Emlyn, Viscount Matheson, A. Wood, W. P. E wa - rt;Williatu Matheson, Colonel Wrightson, W. B. Fagan, James Manic, Fox Wyvill, M. Forbes, Wm. Maunsell, T. P. Young, Sir John Fordyce, A. D. Maxwell, Hon. J. P. TELLERS. Fox, Richard M. Miles, P. W. S. Patten, J. W. French, F. Molesworth, Sir W. Buller, Sir J. Y. MINISTERS' MONEY (IRELAND). Motion made, and Question proposed, " That this House will to-morrow resolve itself into a Committee, to take into consideration the Law relating to he Rate or Tax called ' Ministers' Money' in Ireland, with a view to the repeal of so much thereof as relates to the said Rate or Tax ; and fur ther, to take into consideration the Act 3 and 4 Will. IV., c. 114, called the Church Temporalities Act,' for the par pose of amending the same, so as to provide thereby a sub ,titute out of the revenues of the Ecclesiastical Commis sioners, as a provision for the Protestant Ministers in certain corporate towns in Ireland, in lieu of the annual sums now received by them under and by virtue of the Act 17 and 18 Car. 11., cap. 7 :"—Whereupon previous Question put, " That that Question be now put." The House divided:— MINORITY—AYES, 44. Aglionby, 11. Ifeywor tli, L. Raphael, Alexander Barron, Sir 11. llume, J. Sch ole field, William Blake, M. J. Kershaw, James Scully Francis ~. Brotherton, J. Lawless, Cecil Strickland, Sir G. . , Callaghan, 1). M'Cullagh, W. T. Sullivan, Michael Cowan, Charles Meagher, Thomas Tenison, E. K. Crawford, W. S. Moore, George 11. Thicknesse, Ralph Dawson, T. V. Norreys, Sir D. Thompson, Colonel Devereux, John T. O'Brien, T. Thornely, T. D'Eyncourt, T. O'Connell, John Wawn, J. T. Duncan,loeorge O'Connell, M. J. Willcox, Brodie Fox, W. J. O'lflaherty, Anthony Wyld, James Grattan, Henry Osborne, Ralph Greene, John Pearson, Charles TELLERS. Haste, Alexander Pilkington, James Fagan, William Heywood, James Power, Nicholas Reynolds, John MAJORITY-NOES, 72. Acland, Sir T. Elliot, John E. Napier;;Joseph Adderley, C. L Ferguson, Sir B. Newdegate, C. N. Alexander, X. Filmer, Sir E. Ogle, S. C. A 'Tinian, Captain forbes, W. Paget, Lord A. Bagshaw, John Granby, Marquis of Palmerton, Vis. ' Baring Sir F. _ . _.. Grenfell, Charles W. Parker, John _._ Baring, Thomas Grey, Sir G. Bourke, Richard S. Grogan, Edward Patten, W. Rich, Henry Boyd, John Hale, R. B. I Somerville, Sir W. Bramston, T• W. Hamilton, G. A. Sotheron, T. IL S. Brooke, Sir A. B. Hamilton, Lord C. Stafford, A. Carter, J. B. Hawes, B. Stanley, Edward Cavendish, C. C. Hay, Lord John I ownley, R. G. Cavendish, G. 11. Henley, J. W. Tyrell, Sir J. Chichester, Lord J. Ilobhousc, T. B. Yesey, Hon. T.' Christy, Samuel llodgson, W. N. Vivian, J. E. Cole, Hon. H. A. Hope, A. Watkins, Colonel Corry, Henry Jervis, Sir John Willoughby, Sir IL Deedes, W. Keppel, G. T. Wilson, James l)ick, Quintin Lascelles, W. S. Wodehouse, E. Duncuft, John Lewis, George C: Wood, Sir Charles Dundas, Admiral Lockhart, W. Young, Sir John Dundas, G. Manic, Fox TELLERS. Ebrington, Viscount Maxwell, J. I'. Hill, Lord Marcus Edwards, Henry Mostyn, E. M. Grey, Ralph W. TO THE SECRETARY OF THE METROPOLITAN REFORM ASSOCIATION. Sir,—On Monday the 26th the chief debate was on what is called " the Rate in Aid," and was finally adjourned. This is a Bill fur laying a rate, not to extend to more than sixpence in the pound, on the Poor •Rates collected or collectible in the solvent Unions in Ireland, for the assistance of the insolvent. Its tendency seems to be to approach to making the whole one Union ; and according as the mode of levy ing the rates is good or bad, would appear to be the merits of the process. One thing may be held almost certain —that the pressure will fall on the poorer and middle classes, more than on the rich. But this is an evil, like man's mortality, hardly to be complained of un less there were some chance of altering it. And our chances of seeing it altered are indeed so small, and so dependent upon changes of which hardly the be ginnings can be said to be at present seen, that sub mission seems to be the virtue in immediate demand. On Tuesday a long debate on the opposition pur porting to proceed from the Cape of Good Hope, to the introducti m. of convicts there. The mover, if he was not misunderstood, s t a rt e d w ith demanding a very unreasonable concession, which was that the wants of what is called the mother country should be kept out of the question. Now crime is very much like cholera or fever, a thing produced to the greatest extent in dense populations, and for which the mode of riddance, in modern ideas, is to disperse. There was a time when the notion the public had of dealing with "plague or any common sickness," was to compress it and try into what it could be sublimed. And Some thing like the same was the notion of dealing with crime, with reservation always of the great outlet our ancestors secured by the operations of the hangman. But since these opinions are obsolete, crime like plague must be diluted. It is very probable that no vicinage thinks itself favoured by the transference of a portion of the capital's cho lera or of its crime. But it does not therefore abso lutely follow that the thing is not to be done. Still less can it be conceded that the wants of the metro polis are to be held as nothing in the discussion. There may be considerable apprehension of the existence of party or political feelings iu these repre sentations on the part of the residents at the Cape. One thing they are stated as saying, is, that they have particular objections to receive Irish who have been transported in consequence of the late attempt at rebellion. Now this is the objection of an Orangeman, and not of a colonist simpliciter. It is part and portion of the same feeling which pro duced the appeals to Parliament on the good treat ment of the prisoner Mitchel. Or at all events it is what people will think so. It is matter of history, that among convicts the Irish convict is always the best, and the Scotch the worst; a fact, under the diff erence o f circumstance 4 equally cre ditable to both countries. It is inconceivable there fore that a Cape coloni s t, w h et h er B oor or Br i ton, should be nice in demanding of an Irish labourer if he wants him, his opi n i ons upon R epea l , or the pre cise particulars under which he fell into the hands of the police and thence of the judge and jury. This is not nature ; and consequently will be held for art. It seems likely to become a question, whether the roguish population, will not run away with the honest. No likelier mode of promoting it could be devised, than cutting off the chances of spreading the mis chief wide and thin, and forcing the country to maintain accumulated lazar-houses of crime at home. The motion was finally withdrawn. The House afterwards went into the subject of Ministers' Money. This, in the sister country, is the sister question to that of Church Rates here. The subject was met by the Government'with the Previous Question ; which at one in the morning was carried by 72 against 44. I am, Sir, your obedient servant, AN OLD REFORMER. London, March 28, 1849. 1 ADVERTISEMENT.I—An Abscess in the Breast Cured by Holloway's Ointment and Pills.— About three years since Mrs. O'Flaherty of Mill-street, Cork, accidentally bruised her breast, for months afterwards the pain increased and the part became fearfully swollen ; various applications were tried without giving the least relief. Ultimately an ab scess formed, discharging a great quantity of humour, which debilitated her constitution to an alarming extent ; at this stage a lady strongly recommended her to try Holloway's Ointment and Pills, having witnessed their good effects on former occasions, which advice she followed, and these fine tned;ciner answered most sathfactorily, for the wouhd war soon h e aled, sod her health is now completely renovated.— Sold by all Druggists and at Professor Holloway's Establishment, 244, Strand, London. .. T . ar ~s~g'T LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, MARCH 28, 1849. IRISH RAILROADS. The following deputation of Irish Members of Parlia ment had an interview with Lord J. Russell, the Earl of Clarendon, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, yes terday, at the official residence of the First Lord of the Treasury, in Dawning street, viz., the Earl of Glen gall, L - )rd do Prune, Mr. Robert Ferguson ' Sir Lucius O'Brien Sir V. Verner, Si r W. Barron, Sir D. Nor reys, Majorf Beresford, Mr. George Alexander Hamil ton, Mr. Waddington, Mr. M. J. O'Connell, Mr. M. J. Blake, Mr. Magan, Mr. J. Green, the O'Gorman Mahon, Mr. J. Somers, Mr. John Reynolds, Mr. O'Flaherty, Mr. C. Lawless, Mr. J. Sadlier, Mr. F. Scully, Mr. N. Power, Mr. J. 11. Talbot, Major Blackall, Mr. F. French, Mr. J. H. Hamilton, Mr. Thomas Meagher, Major Macnamara, Mr. M. Sullivan, the Lord Mayor of Dublin, Mr. James Fagan, Mr. W. Fagan, Mr. Q. Dick, Mr. 0. Grace, Dr. Boyd, Mr. N. Alexander, Mr. C. Forteseue, Mr. J. M'Culloch, Mr. H. Browne, Mr. D. Browne, and Mr. Morgan. Sir L. O'BRIEN said, that the wishes of the Irish Members had been already made known to the Govern ment, in the resolutions which he had had the honour to forward, and in the correspondence which had passed between him, as their organ, find the Noble Lord. He had only to say on the present occasion that, as a body, it was their wish to apply to the Government for assist ance to railways in Ireland in general, without commit ting themselves to the recommendation of any particular plan; this they left to the discretion of Government, with the moans of obtaining the best assistance in com ing to a correct judgment. These resolutions, he might remind the 'Noble Lord, had embodied only two sugges tions; one, that a guarantee might be given for the re payment of a moderate rate of interest loy Government to capitalists who should advance money on their own account, and secondly, that a direct outlay of the public money might be safely made where the lines had been already commenced, and on which there had been a con -iderable outlay from the funds of the companies. He had only to add that it was not the wish of the Irish Members to induce the Government to enter on any ex penditure of the public money for which they had not the most ample security that there would be perftct re turn of both principal and interest. _ _ . . Lord J. RUSSELL began by stating that deputations had waited on him from English and Scotch railways as well as Irish, to which he had replied that it was con trary to principles of sound policy for a Government to interfere in enterprises of private advantage, and that it was far better such should be conducted by the persons having an interest in the success of the undertaking. Though he should be of opinion that the same principles would apply to the objects which had been pressed on him by the Irish Members, he conceived that there was a distinction in the present anomalous condition of that country, and under the circumstances of the urgent dis tress which prevailed there, especially in the western parts of Ireland. It was the intention of Government to lay before Parliament a plan which was not as yet fully developed to promote the completion of the main trunk of railway extending to the western district; the railway known as the Midland Great Western would occupy the first attention of the Government, with a view to carry it out; and they had come to the determination that public as sistance should be rendered to that railway, which would open some of the districts most in need of improvement, and to which it was most desirable to encourage the in flux of capital. A plan similar to this had been pursued last year with respect to the Southern Railway with the happiest effect, and it was shortly to be expected that the important city of Cork would in consequence be opened to all the advantages of railway communication. Applications had been made from some of the northern lines, but he considered that they came under tho prin ciples he had first stated, and that they were in a condi tion to go into the market and obtain funds on their own credit. It was to be considered that the public re venue was not in a condition to afford a more en. larged extension of assistance at the present moment. Lord John Russell proceeded further to say that there were two other objects which had engaged the attention of Government as equal in importance to railways, and which, with a view to the relief of present distress, they were disposed to pro• secute. Ile alluded to the deepening of rivers and wa tercourses, commonly known as arterial drainage; and for the second, the extension of the loans for land improvement. For this latter object it was known that a million and a half had already been voted by Parlia ment; about 500,0001. of which had been applied, but to meet the numerous applications which the Board of Works had been unable to satisfy, he would propose to Parliament that a further sum should be voted. Sir L. O'BRIEN asked if it would be within any rea sonable time that the matter would be brought before Parliament ? Lord JOHN RUssELL replied, that as soon as the views of the Cabinet had been sufficiently matured, the plan should be stated in the House of Commons. THE RIVER PLATE. SOITTLIAMPTON, MARCH 27.—8 y the arrival of the Estafette, off Cowes, we are placed in possession of in telligence from Monte Video and the River Plato to the 16th of January, about twelve days later than has hitherto been received, and which anticipates the ex pfeted mail via Falmouth. Her Majesty's ship Kestrel was to sail on the 17th for Rio Janeiro, with the mails for England. The siege of Monte Video, which on the 16th of Fe bruary would complete its sixth year, still continued to drag on its weary length; packet after packet was looked for, but the expected succour did not make its appear ance. The length of time that the war has lasted has reduced the inhabitants, with bat few exceptions, to ab solute beggary, and many families had been compelled to leave for Buenos Ayres, notwithstanding former and long kept resolutions not to return while it was in the power of General Rosas. Tradesmen, labourers, and small mechanics had proceeded in great numbers to seek employment, driven away by the immensely high price of articles of food. Since the French followed the example of the English in taking off the blockade, the business of the River Plato has almost been entirely transferred to Buenos Ayres. Vessels that discharged any of their cargoes at Monte Video were not allowed entry at Buenos Ayres. Business was in a deplorable state, and the revenue of the Custom-house had fallen to so low an ebb that there was some talk of the Government putting aside the claims of the shareholders for a time to be enabled to prolong the resistance to Oribe. There appeared to be no chanco of the termination of the war. Shortly after the arrival of English mails in Novem ber in the Kestrel, the French Admiral, Le Predour, proceeded to Buenos Ayres in the Chinere steamer; the object of his visit was not made public. It was, how ever, generally thought that he went to seek from Rosas ample guarantees for French life and property in Monte Video, in case the sq ua d ron shoul d ret i re altogether from the intervention. Her Majesty's steamer Griffon was dispatched to Rio Janiero immediately after the arrival of the Kestrel. The Raleigh, 50, was to be towed up the river by the steamer Harpy, to have her bottom cleaned. Mr. Southern had not been received in his official capacity by Rosas. The rejected Mr. Hood still re mained at Monte Video. The interdiction of Rosas, preventing the communications with the shore of the officers and crews of the English men-of•war, continued in force, but was understood not to apply to the Alecto on waiting on Mr. Southern, and was said to be evaded in other mice. The following was the distribution of the ships 'of war on the South American station :—Tho Raleigh, Tweed, Harpy, Renard, at Monte Video. The Alecto, at Buenos Ayres. The Lizard en route to Rio Grande. The Hydra, at Rio Grande. The Kestrel would take the next mails to Rio. The Griffon was en route thither, and the Spider expected with the outward mails. French Squadron in the River Plate —Frigates, the Constitution and Erigoue; corvette Trionaphante, barque Astrolabe, four brigs of war, and the steamers Chit Grondeur, and Freton. The Sardinian brig of war Eridano. The Brazilian corvettes Don Francisco and Bertioga, barque Berenice, and schooner Olinda. The American corvette St. Louis sailed for Rio on the 16th of January. Exchange on London merchants' bills, 40d. to 40,id. per current dollar. Navy bills were passed at 40d. On Paris, the rates were sf. 30c. Navy bills on the French Treasury, M. 60e.; on Rio Janeiro, par. In freights no change. FATAL ACCIDENT AT 1.1119 NEW RAILWAY -BRIDGE, BARNES.—A few days since a fearful accident that re sulted in the death of one, and very nearly six lives, occurred at the works of the new iron girder-bridge, now in course of erection across the River Thames, at Barnes, and which is intended to continuo the loop line from the Barnes station of the Richmond Railway to Twickenham. Stretching across from shore to shore are two stupendous wooden frames, across which a tra vellrr, or frame, is propelled on a railway, supporting a crib or winch, to which is attached a massive block and chain, for the purpose of raising large blocks of stone, or heavy masses of iron, and placing them in the place intended. On the afternoon in question six men where at work at the winch, lowering the last of the iron girders which had been taken out of the barge on to a platform, a little below the top of the pier on which it would finally rest. It weighed not quite seven tons, be ing only one-fourth of the entire ribs that are to be used, and it had descended slowly and steadily to within three inches of the platform, when two sharp cracks were heard; the connecting rods were snapped like a piece of thread, and the hugh bulk cf timber broke like a rotten reed, hurling the massive winch, platform, and three of its occupants, on to the platform below. Two men were left on the frame, and the deceased jumped into the river. The tido was then running down, and had been doing so for more than an hour, but there was s i xteen feet of water, and though the deceased rose twice, he sank, and was carried away before any aid could reach him. MARGATE, M AR CH 27.—A great uantity of wreck has been brought in to - day from tho q neighbour hood of the Long Sand, and a little cargo consisting of boxes of candles, barrels of bread, peas, &e., with the log book of a vclsel bound to Batavia, lost on Friday night last. The log book being made up to Friday night there can be no doubt the vessel was lost in the gale that came on early on Saturday morning. his Excellency Count de Revel, for a long time resident Minister of Sardinia at the Court of St. J ames ' s, has been compelled, on his return to Turin, a t ter h i s recall, to enter the ranks of the Garde Mobile as a pri vate. Such is the account made of the energi es of a man who, for twenty years, has proved himself an an able diplomatist. Such a fact speaks volumes for the present unhappy state of ltaly.—Chronicle. His Royal Highness Prince Albert, attended by Colonel Bouverie, paid a private visit of inspe c ti on 3 , e ; terday to the Asylum fur Idiots, Park-house, Highgate. Baron Ward, an equerry of his Royal ilifzltheis [1,,, Duke of Parma, arrived in town 3 esteiky evening, the bearer of eilleiddispatchea, iu which the Luke abdi cates in favour of the Hereditary Prince of Parma, at present residing in England. THE WAR IN INDIA. The last mail of the 3d has taken to you news of two great events, the fall of Moultan, and the so-called vic tory over the Seikhs, near the Jhelum, at Mojnawalla, or Chillianwellah, as it is variously termed by corres pondents. The first will have been received with that unmixed satisfaction which it deserves to be, and with more than ordinary congratulation, since the close of the siege was, as far as we know at present, a bloodless one. Moolraj having by unreserved capitulation, when two breaches were practicable, and the troops were about to storm, prevented the terrible loss, and, indeed, massacre of his followers, which must have resulted in a place whence there was no egress, and under the attack of troops so excited and eager as ours. Since I last wrote the operations of a regular siege were carried on in a very admirable manner; batteries of heavy guns were pushed up by sap to within 100 yards of the fort walls, and the wall battered in breach in two places—one by the Bengal and the other by the Bombay troops. The counterscarp was blown in by a mine scientifically con structed, and the breach, in spite of the mud embank. ment of the fort wall, which appeared for a time to defy artillery, was rendered practicable by firing charged shells into the earth, which acted as small mines and exploded the earth, which balls could not eff.•ct. Doting the 21st, without any cessation of fire from the guns and mortars on our part, Moolraj made several overtures for surrender, but some conditions being required by him his overtures were not accepted; and the troops having been told off into the trenches, of which he must have been aware, during the night, and no alternative being available, he surrendered at daybreak the shattered end untenable citadel ho had so long and so gallantly main tained against us. Never, I believe, in India has there been a more determined and reckless defence, and scarcely has a siege been carried on against such an adversary and so strong a fortification with less loss on our part in the trenches, or in the operations for push- , ing on the batteries. There were for :some time ugly reports that our ammunition was failing, and that operations would again be indefinitely delayed; but these turn out to have been mere grumbling surmises, for it would, by all accounts, have been difficult to exceed the amount of fire night and day from guns and mortars which has been hurled against the fort, and which has left it utterly shattered and untenable. Monitan, then, has fallen. Now look back to the events of the period that has intervened between the murder of Agnew and Anderson, and judge whether there has been that adequate prescience of the combina tions and difficulties awaiting us that ought to have existed in political officers on the spot; and who, from their own convictions, as well as the events occurring before them daily, ought to have foreseen a second and a most obstinate Seikh war, and strangled the revolt in its cradle. Moultan was trifled with in the outset. I, your correspondent, took the liberty to write to yea that this was an organised revolt from the very first; that, instead of having any notion of mai!. ning his Govern ment, Moolraj had made his preparations and sought pretexts to quarrel, which would be afforded by officers being sent down to relieve him. Why was not Moolraj summoned to Lahore with all his troops? He would not have come, and we should then have seen that there was conspiracy on foot; and if there had been energy among us, and the necessity would have called it forth, we should not have thought of the hot weather, but we should have done then in August or sooner—in June —what we have had to do at the end of January, with another hot season close at our heels. These triflings with political events are most blameable, if not criminal in our authorities. What was manifest to a❑ obscure individual like myself must have been known to others conversant with the Seikhs on the spot; if it was not, with all meana and information to boot, they who neg lected them are sorely indeed to blame. Our officers are no novices in Indian diplomacy, or in conception of the probable course that native Powers will pursue when intrigue is at work. Sir Frederick Currie knew in July that this extensive Seikh conspiracy existes. Yet it was not checked in the outset; he appeared to favour the idea that it ought to be permitted to disclose itself fully, and then be broken. Or, if ho did not do this, it is impos sible to account for the supineness which marked the earlier proceedings, and the non-employment of adequate forces to check a movement which, from week to week and month to month, was only the more forcibly and steadily developing itself. Call to mind the progress how Moolraj strengthened himself, how Chuttur Singh revolted—how the northern part of the Punjaub showed disaffection—then Bhennoo and Tonk to the westward; how Shere Singh threw off the mask at the most critical period, and was allowed to move with but 5,000 men to join his father and brothers; how the Peshawur force, held together so long by Lawrence, could not resist the contagion of disaffection, and rebelled too; and now be hold the fruit of all—that while we have won Moult= after a six months' siege and investment, we have lost Attock, as strong a place; and instead of only having a small force under Chuttur Singh to deal with in the north-west, we have at least 50,000 Seikhs and Affghans and the league between them to be broken—to be broken, Sir, at the expense of thousands of the lives of our own troops, and at the expense of millions of treasure. Can we afford either? Why should this have been? Look you to the past, and watch the progrees of neglect and shilly-shally. Every present advantage was to be sacrificed to the pros pect of the Commander-in-Chief in the field with 50,000 men in November. A force utterly inefficient was sent Moultan; a force insufficient for the reduction of a third-rate fortress was sent against one of the strongest places in India, second perhaps only to Bhurtpore, having a garrison of 10,000 to 15,000 capital troops, artillery, ammunition, and stores of supplies. With what hope of success? It cannot avail as excuse that its strength was not known; it ought to have been known, and Edwardes was on the spot to afford it. 10,000 men —half from Bengal, half from Bombay—could have been at Moultan in August, and those men would have done what has been done now. The Seikhs would not have fought under prestige of success, and Shere Singh, as he is now, would never have been heard of. That period, too, should have seen 5,000 British troops pushed into the centre of the Punjaub, watching the lines of the Chenaub and the Jhelum from their junction upwards, with another force covering the passage of the Jhelum, near Bhotas, and able to act efficiently in check of the Hill tribes, or on the other side of the Jhelum if needs be. These, with the usual garrison at Lahore, and th e troops in the Jullundur Dooab, would have checked open disaffection I think, and if a conspiracy did exist, if it was true, and it was true, that preparations in arms, am munition, and money, had long been made for this strug gle, our politicals must have been blind and deaf indeed if they were not able eventually to discover all, and to break up piecemeal, what now stands—and bravely stands—the shock of one of the finest armies we have ever brought together. It may be said that retrospec tion is now useless; we have only now to look what there is in the face. But it is not useless, if it will teach us for the future, and if the reckless indifference or selfishness of those in authority can be exposed, as it is most fitting they should be. What can your Govern ment, or your public, or your miltary authorities say of these most. strange unaccountable proceedings? Unac countable, because with imminent prospect of a war, forces, which Lord Hardinge had left complete for in stant movement, could not be sent on for want of car riage and equipment, and when the commissariat even was so defective that stores of grain had not been thought of and had to be provided at the eleventh hour, and at an enormously enhanced outlay. What can you say to Shere Singh net having been cut off from the north, and either driven back on Moultan, or engaged and broken on his way up the Chenaub? Is it not to this neglect that we owe his now being is arms, with 50,000 men, instead of 5,000? Lord Gough is known to have disapproved of General Whish's force being sent to Moultan—it was not large enough; but why, as it was sent, was it not supported from Bombay, as it could have been? It would have been better to have recalled the force than to have allowed it to proceed under conviction of its inefficiency; and, that it was not aided instantly surely could not have been, as many more than hint, to allow of its being proved that it would not do. I maintain that there has b ee n s er i ou s and u n ex ampled indifference to the progress of events, and that there has not been that comprehensive estimati on of th ese difficul ties, nor the end to which they would lead, which was to have been expected from the matured experience of our political officers, and these causes combined have raised up a strong argument, which it is difficult to meet, against the retention of the Punjaub, even supposing it to be, as it will be, eventually subdued. We are bound by an article of the treaty, which must be familiar to you, to preserve peace in the dominions of the Maharajah; and, unhapily there was no clause inserted in the treaty that provided against the possibility of treachery by the Rhalsa army and the Sirdars. We have then, apparently, to abide by our stipulation, whether the foe be the ordi nary small risings or rebellions which were contemplated or whether the rebellion is, as the present, an unmistake able outbreak of the whole Seikh nation against us. I cannot, however, imagine that the unprovoked hos tility of the Seikhs can be admitted as any set off against our permanent occupation of the Punjaub; and our very supineness may (though I doubt this) have been in reli ance on the good faith of the main body of the Khalsa army, and of their operating with us in suppressing re volt of their companions in arms, though our supineness in regard to active operations did, without a doubt, operate to the effect of turning the Peshawur troops from their duty. Yet it can hardly be an excuse to them for having turned, when their conduct ought to have been as far beyond suspicion as our own. We are accused of having exposed them to, and perhaps by our supineness led them into, temptation; but I cannot subscribe to the argument which many Indian papers have taken up— that the crime of their succumbing to temptation is at our doors. Their course was clear and open. If the Peshawur troops were not at first openly disaffected, they were so mistrusted that they could not be led against Chuttur Singh, and after a short struggle against re corded promises they threw off their mask openly and fairly, and cast themselves with a full understanding of the question and the fullest reliance on their own invin cibility, into a conflict for that national superiority which had been for a time broken, but which they considered not extinct. They have courted the trial, not we; and the reeult has to be seen. I believe, as I trust, that it will be eventual ruin and discomfiture to them, and the present bloody war is, if anything can be, a lesson to us not to trust men, with national feelings, with military power and organization. The Mahrattes at Gwalior were quiet for a long time, yet they met us Maharai pore, and fought till they were destroyed. The Seikhs em ployed two years of peace in preparing privately for an• other struggle, and till they are utterly extinct as a mili tary power we have no business to think ourselves secure. Wo cannot have a double Government in the Punjaub. and wo cannot again perpetuate the risk which attends, the establishment of a national Seikh force, under what ever stringent treaty we may draw up, or however the Seikhs, individually or nationally, may pledge themselves to the performance of it. have no resource, to my nerci ption, and I will tfua t., b`lt tc take the Punjaub for good, and to make at least the Indus our boundary; that even appears doubtful now, under the macluot Qf the Affghpue wader D9St DlAll9l3lnled EVIICI whether Peshawur have to b 3 conquered for the Maha rajah or for ourselves, we cannot deny that the necessity exists that it should be recovered alike from the treach erous Seikh Sirdars who have given it away, or from the Afghans who have as treacherously accepted it. The same mail which took you tidings of the fall of Jioultan will have taken news of the affair of Chillian wallah, which is claimed as a victory by us, on no other ground that I can make out but that we choose to spend gunpowder to proclaim one. Ido not know when we have lost seven standards and four guns, and not held the field of battle, that we have called the affair a vic tory. It is most strange to me that Lord Gough cannot, or will not, profit by experience, that he cannot find out what his enemy is doing, and that he persists in going blindly at positions of which he knows no more but that there are Seikh troops in them, and guns that may be taken. It was thus at Moodkee and Ferozeshah, and the same at I`daharajpore, where his Lordship has had the fortune, evil or good, as you may please to call it, to command in person. 4t Maharajpore he marched the troops into an ambuscade, which he ought to have known of perfectly, and which might have been entirely turned or taken in the rear by a simple manceavre on ordinary information. At Ferozeshah the destinies of India trembled in the balance because of the same neglect of or contempt for the enemy's dispositions; the troops were taken into action hungry and after a heavy march, too late in the day to win a battle properly, and were successful only from their bulldog courage of holding through a weary night what they won. One would think that experience, if nothing else, would teach; but it is not so, apparently, with the Commander. in. Chief, and again we sea our brave fellows hurled against intrenchments covered with jungle, and batteries which could only be seen by the smoke of ti:e guns firing from them, in a chance-medley manner, and with afternoon sufficient only for a temporary success, at vast sacrifice of life, and no corresponding benefit. The movement of the Commander-in Chief was necessary, as his inactivity was doing mischief; but, why not have ordinary caution? Why bring on a general action, the enemy having chosen and fortified their own position for five weeks previously, when un prepared for it? Would there have been any harm, after having waited so long, in halting, at least for the after noon, at a distance sufficient to rest the troops, make a reconnoissance, and attack with men who were fresh and fit to fight men who had not moved out of their own positions? It only surpasses this marvellous mode of lighting that the Commander-in-Chief should have been idle after the affair at Ramnuggur—should not have followed Shere Singh up, the day after Thackwcll's affair at Sadoolapoor, to the Jhelum, driven him across it, or engaged him in the field, wherever he could have found him. Are commanders of armies never to use the principles of manceuvre, which we have been led to believe are the basis of successful military operations? Could not the Commander-in-Chief, with an army ac customed to manceavre in divisions, have pressed on the front and flank of Shere Singh's force, followed him from place to place, and forced him to fight without intrenchments, and in the field ? I cannot believe that it could have been otherwise had it been tried. Instead of which, we know that Shore Singh purposely returns to a snug place he had already determined on, after the ac tion of Sadoolapoor, and there, in a position strong by ravines and by jungle, ho quietly pitches his camp, undisturbed and unobserved, and throws up intrenchments, which the Seikhs have a talent of making as well as we can or perhaps better. The force of the Seikhs is known, but nothing more. There is no reconnoissance; a partial action ensues; of a scrambling, unsatisfactory character; we have three corps nearly cut to pieces; our men do prodiges of valour in storming batteries, and after all we get only 12 guns, and do not affect the Seikhs in any material degree be yond sending them a few miles further, where we are unable to follow them without being largely reinforced. Was there no way of turning the flank of this position at Moong or Chillian ? No way north or south by which the intrenchments could have been avoided ? Would a few days' delay have signified, which could have been occupied in manoeuvres ? Why not have tried to draw the Seikhs out to ground more favourable to cavalry, in which we are strong; or, if they would not move, to get round to their flank or rear, which was not, so far as we know even attempted? You will receive the dispatches by the mail that takes this, and will form your own con clusions in regard to them. To my perception, these wanton sacrifices of life, ...without object attained or at tainable, expose the Commander-in-Chief to the severest animadversion. Nur can apology be found either for his inactivity, on the one hand, after the affair at Ramnug gur, or fur the unarranged and inconclusive attack upon the position of the Seikhs at Chillian. The Commander-in-Chief has sent for reinforcements, as he needs to du in presence of the force he has to com bat. There is satisfaction in knowing that, Moultan having fallen, the Bombay and Bengal columns or about 10,000 men, would march immediately up the Jetch Dooad, upon Said Dadun Khan, and the Commander-in- Chief's camp. General Wheeler's force had also been sent for, and two corps from Ramnuggur, as well as a European corps from Lahore. This ought to increase the army by at least 15,000 men, when it would be in a position to resume operations, which will most likely be suspended for the present. The Seikhs were by the last accounts at Russool, in sight of our own army. They will, of course, intrench themselves again, and have plenty of time to construct a bridge over the Jhelum, by which they may retire. They are to be reinforced by Chuttur Singh, with his regular troops and artillery, and will, of course, be very strong. The fall of Moul tan may possibly have a dispiriting effect, inasmuch as they will know that the trops and guns employed there will come northwards immediately, but in no other re spect. Moultan has been of more importance to us than to Shere Singh and Chuttur Singh. Now we feel the folly of the previous delays. If Moultan had fallen in September, or even two months later, the force there could, or its proportion unemployed, have been now, nay long before this, with the Com mander-in-Chiee. As it is, it cannot be with him till the end of this month, when the hot weather is not far dis tant; it is a pity to lose the best season for operations, which wo are likely to do, and everything but time is redeemable. Lord Gough has yet to bent the Seikhs, to cross the Jhelum, and to retake Attock—quite enough, under the delay which must necessarily occur, to do be fore the end of March; and, as he said this campaign would last two years, it seems really as if he was doing his best to make his own predictions come true, for ho will hardly do much more before the hot weather forces him into quarters, if not back to Simlah; though I should rejoice to see that his Lordship, from personal experience, could find out, in case of a second Moultan matter any where, that the hot weather was of very little consequence where real work had to be done. There has been some not ill-timed alarms in Calcutta in relation to the Nepaulese. The Raja, the Minister, and many Sirdars of note set out with 10,000 men to hunt in the Z9rai, the belt of forest which lies between us and Nepaul. So monstrous a hunting party, under the present circumstances, and as the Nepaulese have ever been held to be sympathizers with the Seikhs, led many to suppose that the right flank of Bengal was to be assailed, and forthwith a reckoning up of troops began. It seemed we had about 20,000 in position, of whom half might bo available. A wing of ono of her Majesty's regiments which had been ordered down from Divapore, and was at Calcutta, was sent back by steam post haste, and a large steamer dispatched to Madras for a wing of the 25th Foot, which was at its destination in a few days. By the time it reached its destination, how ever, it was known in Calcutta that the hunting party bad been obliged to return, having caught nothing but many bad fevers in the pestilential jungles or covers they they had attempted to draw. Alarm, therefore, has sub sided, and it is probable his Majesty of Nepaul may get a broad hint that another time when he goes his plea sure in the woods to take, he had better choose a more auspicious time and a less questionable garb. It appears to have been a wondrous relief to the Bengalese that this cloud has broken up, and that the sun once more shines out from Nepaul. Can it be true that the Board of Control and the Court are now seeking to evade, or are resolutely bent on de nying the guarantee to Indian railways? Can it be that this war has again dried up all their sympathies with the improvement of the country, or that they can shut their eyes or ears to the wondrous advantages which, in case of war, railways would confer on the country, even supposing them to give no other advantage ? If Lord W. Bentinck, in establishing steam-vessels on the river, could say that ho made one regiment of infantry equal in value to three, in what proportion would the army not be increased in power and weight did we possess rail ways through the length and breadth of the land; with what facility could Madras troops now lying idle be run up to Calcutta by our noble coast and Indian navy steamers, and how easily could the Bengal or Madras troops be pushed on to the north-west, and not only men, but stores and ammunition, guns and waggons, which have now to crawl along at the rate of 10 or 12 miles a day! Alas, Sir, this indifference to the founda tions of real healthy enterprise and improvement causes our Government—said to be a well-intentioned one—to make a melancholy exhibition before the advancement of all other Christian and civilized Governments; and again, before the stern aspect of war, we have to see all our best intentions of improvement during peace affrighted and demolished. No railways for India this year, nor haply next, nor again after that. Hope deferred maketh the heart sick. We are, Sir, very sick; sick of delays, eva sions, and shilly-shallyinge, which, could they be aban doned, would give place, we arc convinced, to hearty exertions in this great cause of national splendour and benefit. Can nothing be done? Cannot you assist us? Is our cotton and our produce, as well in the Deccan as elsewhere, to continue to bo unprofitable, solely because there is no market? Aro we to see in a plenteous season like the present the grain of whole districts a drug in the market, unsaleable and unprofitable, because it cannot reach the coast, whence there are a thousand outlets for it ? Is it enough for this Government that it crawls on in the old fashion of 50 years, ay, 100 years ago ? Are not its obligations to the peope it governs yet under stood better than they were ? If they bo not, it is alike useless that the press and the public urge, as both do, and have done, this great question ; and yet I should hardly say this. I do hope the efforts of neither aro useless, and that eventually this most sluggish Govern ment will be driven, since it cannot bo led, into bond fide acts, not mere discussions and intentions. If Cuba, as we hear, can have its railways, and find them answer, is it not a reproach to us, that the Governor-General cf India, when he travels post, has to do so for the most part in a truck which carries his palanquin, drawn by bullocks, or on men's shoulders, and that important dis patches as well as the public letters crawl at the rate of four or five miles an hour through the length and breadth of the land ? I put all considerations of im provement of trade, increased value of produce, &c., out of the question. That a British Government of so im portant a country, with all its vast interests flagging for want of this one most healthy stimulus, should —after taking the matt r up, p,s,ing into preliminary ar rangements, and holding out mere hope of ultimate fulfilment of all, or most—now deliberately abauelon all, is a spectacle of humiliation which not even mili tary defeat, should that ma) could equal,—Tines Currioromigit, NAVAL IN TELLIGEN CE. THE GOOD SERVICE PENSIONS. The two good service pensions, which were placed at the disposal of the First Lord of the Admiralty by the promotion of Captain Mend s an d t h e death of Captain Lawrence, C.B. have been conferr e d b y Si r P. Baring, Bart., on the undermentioned officers:— Captain Edward Lloyd, C. 8., F.R.S., a Lieutenant of 1808, Commander of 1811, and Captain of 1821. The epitome of his services in Allen's New Navy List are as follow:---" E. Lloyd, midshipman of Dictator, serving in the flotilla and on shore at Egypt, 1801, when he was severely bruised; of Leda, and wounded when in com• mand of a bunt in an attack upon a French mortar vessel, moored near a battery at Boulogne, 1804; and in 1805, assisted at the capture of seven gun-schuyts; and con ducted and fired a catamaran in the attack upon Bou logne flotilla. Midshipman of the same ship at the reduction of the Cape, where he served on eho:e with the army; Lieutenant of Raisonable, and commanded a division of seamen and marines (Royal Blues) at the capture of Monte Video, and attack upon Buenos Ayres; and served till the Foal evacuation, 1807. Lieutenant of the same ship serving on shore at the capture of St. Paul's, Isle of Bourbon, and again wounded; and of Boadicea, at the reduction of Bourbon and Isle of France, where he was attached to the naval brigade. Served as a volunteer with the army et the capture of Java, Com mander of Raven in the Gulf of Parma, and rendered important services, 1814-15. Gaz. 1809, 10 10." a Captain Sir Eaton Traver s , C. 8., Lieutenant of 1804, Commander of 1814, and Captain of 1829. The Navy List records of this officer are as follows Sir E. Travers, Midshipman of Juno, serving in the boats at capture of Dutch national brig Crash and other ves sels at Schiermonikocg ; at destruction of a 6-gun bat tery on the coast of Holland; and in armed schuyt in the Texel expedition, and officially mentioned at the defence of Lemner, 1799; and at capture by boarding of Spanish 12- gun schooner Volante near Campeachy, when Lieu. tenant Burn was killed, 1801. Midshipman of Elephant at capture of Duguay Tronin, and serving in Hercule's launch when Clorinde was taken possession of at Cape .Francois by Lieutenant Willoughby, 1803. Served at the storming of Fort Piscadero ; and during the attack on Curacoa, is command of an advanced post ; and commanded one of the boats at capture of French priva:eer Ftlicite, 1804. Lieutenant of Surveillante, and in her boats at capture of numerous vessels near Campeachy, 1805; and, in 1806, in command of a single boat, boarded and captured Spanish schooner Serpanton, of 6 guns and 35 men, at the mouth of the Juan. Lieutenant of Alcmene at capture of several vessels on the coast of France, 1808 ; and of Impe rieuse, commanding a division of seamen serving on shore at the Beige of Flushing; and as aide-de-camp to Sir E. Coate and General Don. Lieutenant of Impe ricuse, and in 1810 commanded the boats at the capture of three gun-vessels moored under the batteries near Possitano, in the Gulf of Salerno; and assisted at cap ture of a convoy at Palinuro, in 1811, and continued in the same ship, asseisting in the various services per formed until 1814, including the storming of Port D'Anzo, descent at Via Reggio, capture of Leghorn, and reduction of Genoa. Has been nine times mentioned in gardted dispatches." The above quoted services of the officers will of themselves show how deservedly the patronage of the new First Lord has been bestowed. Sir Eaton Travers is the youngest in seniority as a cap tain who now holds the good-service pension. Rear-Admiral B.' Mends, not yet having been super seded in command of the Agincuurt, depot ship of the ordinary at Devcnport, hoisted his flag on Monday morning, previously to attending the court martial on Commander Newland and the officers of the Ranger; Rear-Admiral Superintendent Sir John Louis, Bart., having shifted his flag pro tem. from the Agincourt to the Ranger. The court had not closed at 4.45 P.M. PORTSMOUTH, TUESDAY. The Stromboli steam sloop sailed this afternoon, in pursuance of her previous orders, for Plymouth and the Chops of the Channel. She is under the command of her senior Lieutenant, Mr. Thomas Davies; Commander Lord A. W. Beauclerk having chained Admiralty leave to visit his brother, the Duke of St. Alban's, who is dangerously ill, and believed to be at the point of death. A seizure of 941 b. of manufactured tobacco was made yesterday on board the Sidon steam frigate, by the tide surveyors of customs and boat's crew, and two men, named respectively Thomas Piles and John Wright, seamen of the vessel, were summarily convicted of smug gling the same this, day at the Borough Police Court. The Sidon commenced unbending sails on Monday morning, and also began to return stores. Admiral Sir Bladen Capel visited her in the forenoon, and her crew were mustered by Captain Blackwood, the flag captain, in the afternoon. She will be ready, it is said, to pay off on Friday. She has emptied her boilers and tanks, and is, as usual, listed over several degrees from the bilge water having got over on the port side, so that she looks like a vessel with her cargo shifted. It is said that when. she gets a list on either side, say a list to port, that she will even retain the list against a moderate breeze on the port tack—that is, she will heel over to windward. So much for the sailing qualities of the Sidon. The Edinburgh has been taken into dock to have her bottom scrubbed. She is razeed for a screw guard-ship; but the hole in the 'lead wood for her screw has not yet been cut. She has no copper on, and as the worms may probably do her damage, she has been taken into dock, to have the weeds scrubbed off, and to be fresh blacked over. The Dutch man-of-war steamer ➢ierapie, that arrived iu Plymouth Sound on Saturday, from the Cape, sailed for lielvoetsluys on Monday. No ship has been yet brought forward as the one to replace the St. Vincent, 120, bearing the flag of Sir C. Napier, daily expected home. It is rumoured,Sir Charles will transfer his flag to the Superb, 60, Captain Purcell, at Spithead, pro tem. APPOINTMENTS. Assistant Surgeons—John W. Reed, to Plymouth Hospital; and Dr. James Rae, to the North Star, disco very ship, fitting at Sheerness. . „ Second Masters—J. W. H. Harvey, to the Ocean, flag ship, at Sheerness; 11. B. Gamier, to the North Star. Clerk—F. J. Rutter, to the North Star. Midshipman—Albert Dent, to the Trincomalee, 25, in the West Indies. Master's Assistant—J. F. R. Aylen, to the North Star. Gunner—J. G. Twine, to the North Star. LAUNCH OF TILE ARCIER STEAM-VESSELL. DEPTFORD, DIARCII 27.—The keel of the Archer was laid down at Deptford Dockyard on the 18th Oct., 1847, and the vessel was built under the superintendence of Mr. Willcox, master shipwright, from a plan by Cap tain Lord John Hay, C. 13., ono of the Lords of the Ad miralty. She was originally intended to have engines of 250-horse power, but subsequent experiments having shown that vessels fitted with screw propellers have at tained a considerable proportionate speed with engines of less power, it has been decided that she is to be fitted with the engines, of 202-horse power, taken out of the Rifleman steam-vessel. The change of the engines gives her a greater space in the hold by IBft. than could have been attained with the original engines of 250-horse power, and they aro now to be fitted to the Boratio at Chatham. The less weight of the engines of the Rifle man will enable the Archer to carry a greater armament, and instead of one 68• pounder of 95 cwt. and 10 ft. long, ono 10 inch gun, 85 cwt. 9 ft. 4 in. long, and two 32 pounder guns of 25 cwt., 6 ft. long, she is to mount two 68-pounders of 87 cwt., and twelve 32-pounders of 42 cwt, and may be used as a troop-ship, having every convenience for the accommodation of 400 troops in addition to her crew. The preparations for the launch having been completed, and the tide being nearly high water at half-past three o'clock P.M. to-day, that hour was appointed, and a great concourse of spec tators were admitted to witness the ceremony. Captain Sir John Hill, superintendent of the dockyard; Mr. WillcOx, master shipwright; Commander Willcox, Mr. Alderman Sidney, and a number of ladies and gentle men assembled on the platform constructed at the bows of the vessel, at a quarter past three o'clock, and a bottle of wine having been opened, Mrs. Sidney, wife of Mr. Alderman Sidney, drank success to the Archer, and then broke the bottle on the bows of the vessel. In a few minutes after the Archer glided into her future element, cheered by the assembled spectators. The Monkey then took her in tow to take her to Woolwich, to be fitted with her engines. The following are the dimensions of the Archer:— Ft. in. Length of tonnage ... 186 4 Length of keel for tonnage 162 7 Breadth extreme 33 to Breadth for tonnage ... ••• 36 6 1 Breadth moulded ..• ••• 32 to Depth in hold ... ••• ••• 18 11 ..• Burden in tons, old 973 22-94 Burden in toes, new ..• ... 706 69 MELAscnorx ACCIDENT.-- Colour-Sergeant T. Smith, Captain Harrison's company, 11th batt a li on, Royal lArtillery, stationed at Languard Fort, near li ar - Wictr, went out to walk on Saturday afternoon the 17th instant, and as it was dark when on his return, it is sup posed he bad slipped and fallen down a bank fifteen feet high into the mud of a ditch at the bottom, the body when found the next day having the appearance of death by suffocation. A coroner's inquest was held on the fol lowing Monday, and a verdict of " Accidental Death" returned. The funeral took place on Wednesday, the 21st instant. The coffin was mounted on a platform erected on a gun-carriage, drawn by two horses, pre ceded by a sergeant's firing party, and followed by the remainder of the company. The body was interred at Walton-on-the-Naze, and between 300 and 400 of the country people assembled to witness the spectacle of a military funeral in that retired district. The deceased was within three months of having served his full time, and was considered a most steady and trustworthy non commissioned officer. STATE OF TRADE.—MANCTIESTER.—There was not much alteration in the market yesterday, the depression of last week still continuing. Little disposition was ma nifested by buyers to enter into fresh engagements. The continued unsettled state of the Continent is the chief reason assigned for this holding back. In the ware houses there has not been much business transacted, and generally, where sales to much extent have been made, they have been at a slight reduction of last week's prices. This has been the case with shirtings and printed cloths to a greater extent than some other goods. Yarns may be also quoted as lower where business is really trans acted. But as the spinners are yet well employed, and the business really done at the reduced rates is exceed ingly limited, prices are more nominal than real. The depression in the continental department is more felt at the present time, on account of this being the season when their orders are most numerous and important, There is no doubt, however, that the rapid advance which some time since took place in the price of cotton has had the tuo , t depressing effect ou the general state of the market. kiliould there be, however, a reaction in the price of the raw material, with the large demand which there is from the 'United States, there ie little doubt bet 3 page TtiA soon b 9