The Sun. — London, England, 1820-06-20 00:00:00

:postponement of th meeting 'of tlie Secret Com mittee wes urged on the gratin(' of what occurred in another place, will allow .me to say, that he was not present during the former proceedings regarding this subject, and that that was not the ground upon which the postponement took place, it being distinctly stated by my Noble Friend, that discussion and explanation were proceeding, and that therefore it became expedient to post pone the meeting of the Secret Committee. That 'this negociation has failed,'is matter of regret to all, but surely under such circumstances the only course to be adopted, is that which has been pur sued, to communicate to Parliament the result of that negociation•, and leave it to them to say, whether it requires any proceeding to be-' - adopted with - regard to the meeting or not of the Secret Committee as originally determined 'Ton. Lord Hot emen—lt appears to me, my Lords, that when the Noble Earl repo has just sat down, seems to triumph in the idea, in a n swer to my Noble Friend, that there is no precedent for such a case as the present, he forgets that it is not ex nctly the form of a precedent that is to be looked to, but the reason of the thing. Reason, then, surely requires that the responsible Ministers lee the Crotvn should he ready to state to Nadi-miens upon their responsibility, what course of proceed. ing they deem it expedient should he adoved, and not that they should endeavour to shift and shuffle <►tl that responsibility Upon Parliament itself. ‘Vluil has been the consequence of this vacillating policy of the Ministers ?—that this House, 1 mu3t sty with my Noble Ftiend, has been placed in a disgraceful situation. We were told that our dig. tiity required that we should complete our pro. seeding by nomineting the Secret Committee, but whet, after the repeated postponerneets of the meeting of that Committee, becomes of our dig- Icily now ? The Noble Earl who has jest sat down, has said that the postponement of the meeting of the Committee was not in con.equence of the proceedings in the House of Commons, butt what are the facts ? On the second day of this luroceeding, ' a Noble Baron took the manly and direct course of moving to postpone the Ballot for the Committee, on the express ground of what had occurred in the interval (namely, in the House of Commons), tending to excite a hope of conciliation, and what did the Noble Earl at the head of his Majestsy's Councils say ? That he had no information swots the subject, that he did not believe there was any prospect of conciliation ; and yet the Noble Earl proposed to pu s pone the meeting of the Committee; which postponement came, in fact, to the saute point as the motion of the Noble Baron. To what then are we to at►ribute the postponement, except to the knowledge of what had passed in the House of Commons, and the wish to await for the !w -ater proceeding of that House ? As to any ar gument of not allowing the contents of the Pa pers in the mean time to be known to the Secret Committee, it is quite absurd ; because the ballot has placed six Loids upon that Committee, who, being part of the Administration, must have pre viously known all the contents of them ; and see, my Lords, to what suspicion the conduct of ctili sisters upon this occasion leads, compared with their conduct upon other occasions. When we have had Green Bags against the People there has been no delicacy on the part of Ministers in stat ing at once all the contents of -the Papers, though sealed up in a bag, and anticipating all the strong measures that it has been pretemted were rendered necessary by the disclosures ;bus made. But here we have a Green Bag, about the contents of which the utmost reserve and delicacy are to be observed; not a word is to he disclosed of them,and the House is to he placed in the singular situation of annulling, es it were, its own decision of appointing a Com mittee to consider the contents of a Bag, and then refusing to unseal the Bag, thos.keeping the Committee like Judges suspended in air, waiting for the case that is to be laid before them.----The whole of this proceeding, 1 must say, is most dis graceful to the House. As to the plea shat an universal feeling was expressed that some open ing should'be left for conciliation, it must be in the recollection of your Lordships that nothing was said by any Noble Lord upon the subject, previon4 to the proposition of the Noble Earl on the ocher side, on the second day of this proceed ing, for postponing the•meeting of the Commit tee ; and we therefore still conic to this, notwith standing what has been said about the dignity of the House, that our conduct was - in fact governed by the proceedings of the House of Commons. The Vail of HARROWBY, in explanation, denied that the proceedings of the House of Commons hat; any influence upon the postponement of the meeting of the Committee, which arose front the impression that an opening ought to be left for Conciliation. The Earl of DARNLEY maintained that not the tightest reason appeared from any thing tl►at passed in the interval, between the first and se cond day of this proceeding, for postponing the meeting of the Committee, except what had pass ed in the House of Commons ; and this be con tended, whatever might be said on the other side, was the real reason , for the postponement ; and that the object of the further postponement now ".4 , 05, Still to wait to see what course the House of Commons would pursue. The Earl of LiveerooL, in explanation, con tended that it appeared to he the general wish, even on the lost day of this proceeding, that means should be found, if possible, to avoid the painful necessity of carrying on this investigation. As to what he said, regarding the prospect of conciliation, on the second day's proceeding, he d en i e d t h a t his words bore the import attributed to them by the Noble Baron on the other side, namely, that he said there was no prospect of conciliation ; all he conveyed was, that he had no special information to ground any opinion upon the subject. The Earl GREY, in explanation with regard to precedent, observed, that he never tneant to say there was any precedent of a case like Ilse pre sent, but what he meant to contend was—that there was no precedent of any Papers cotn►unni- _ . cited to the House from the Crowri, referring to and pending any proceeding before the House, upon which some proceeding was not founded by the Ministers of the Crown. The Et►ri of DARNLEY repeated Ids former ob- iection to the course of proceeding. Lord HoLLANI) in explanation stated, th,st the ground of his objection was, that the Noble Earl had laid 'papers before the House without giving them arty reason to suppose to what con clusion they might lead. Lord DACRB said, that the House might still be placed in great diffitulties, should the House of Commons chance to form an opinion upon this subject different from that which was expected. High as the legal opinion in the __ ft ouse was, that no impeachment could be instituted' against the Queen, non constat that the House of Com Mons might not differ from that op=nion, and institute an impeachment. He begged to ask, whether the ground for adjourning the meeting of the Committee wns to he found in the papers now laid on the table ? The Noble Earl did not say it was, but from the course pursued, such waV to be in ferred. lie was also desirous to know what_was the extent of these papers, and to what point they reached ? Did they refer solely to the recent ne gociacions, or did they contain those previous negoeiations which - should be known to the House for the purpose of obtaining a perfect knowledge of the-recent transactions lie further desired to know .vhether the Noble Earl would have any objectioil to furnish such other documents upon this subject as might be thought necessary The Esti of LIVERPOOL said, that the best c.v..ay of knowing whilt the papers referred to, was to cause the Clerk to read the title's of the papers. • The Clerk was about to read the list, when Lord RoLt.tt reminded the House that the clues- Lion ofadjourninent was before th e m. Lord HOLLAND said he should move that the papers be read, in order to see it it was proper that they should agree to the adjournment. The Eall of LIV KRPOOL observed that the-ques- - tioos were distinct. Lord HOLLAND maintained the right of any Peer to call for the reading of papers lying on the table which might . have a courection with the question in debate—the reading of an Act of Par liament for illumine. Earl See said there was no question re. gularly betore'llre House, but the None Earl. having laid papers on the table by the command of his Majesty which must shortly come under con sideration, the regular way was to read the whole of the papers. Not one of 'their Lordships, with the exception of Ministers, knew what they con tained, so that he thought _that the titles might at least be read, Lord I(oLts said, that if the sense of the House was against his motion be certainly should not press it. lie had moved it on perceiving that there was no question before the House. The LORD CIIANCSLLOR said, the obly motion before Iheni was the question of adjournment. How far the speeches which their Lordships had heard bore any reference to that Trestion,it was for, the House itself to decide, but fur his ow•n part, he should say that he was not able to dis cover any. Any Noble Lord might introduce to pics, the application of which it would be difficult to bee until he had made it himself. The Clerk then read the titles of the Papers, which were as follow No. 1. Cop y of a setter from the Queen to the Earl of Li verpool, dated June 9, 18211. No. 2. Copy of the Answer addressed thereto , by the Earl of Liverpool, on the I . oth of June. No. 3. Copy of a Letter from the Queen to thl Earl of Liver pool, dated June 10. No. 4. Answer of a Letter in reply to that of the Queen from the Earl of Liverpool, dated Ju li e I I. No. 5. Copy of a Letter front the Queen to the Eat! of Liver pool, dated June 12. No. 6. Answer of the Earl of Liverpool to the same, dated June 13. No. 7. Copy of a Note addressed by the Earl of Liverpool on the lath of .June to his Majesty. No. 8. A Copy of a Note addressed by Mr. Brougham t o th e Earl of Lim rpool, Stating bet Majesty 's consent to the ap pointment of two persons on her behalf for settling all matters in dispute between herself and his Majesty. No. 9. An Appendix, containing the names of the pet sons proposed as arbitrators on the part of the Queen, with a view to conclude an arrangement, dated June 15. No. 10. A Memorandum of an arrangement proposed to the Queen, on the lath of April last, previous to her coming to England. No. 1. Protocol of the first conversation held on this subject at St. 3antes's-square. ' No. 2. Protocol of the second conversation held at the Foreign Office. Nos. 3 and 4. Protocols of the third and fourth conversations held at St. James's-skluare. No. 5. Protocol of the fifth and last conversation held on this subject at the Foreign Office. The Earl of LAUDERDALE here wished to be in formed if the Noble Earl opposite was disposed to communicate such papers as had passed in this affair, not only 'us but before the 9111 of Jun e ,— He was anxious to inspect the whole evidence and facts, in order to see whether it was prudent or wise to have negociated at all since her Majesty had arrived here, or whether the business was fruitless from the first. The Noble Earl had himself the advantage of seeing the whole of the pallets now referred to ; while their Lordships ;aw only their detached parts, for any thing to the contrary yet known. He wished to have the antecedent parts. The Earl of LIVERPOOL bad no objection to produce one document of anterior date, the only one then officially communicdted to him. When the whole of the papers were before the Hoase, Noble Lords would be enabled to form theieopi nions on the entire case, with explanations of par ticular part'. Lord ERSKINE{ wished to know if the Noble Lord thought it possible for them to 'advise the King, whether the negotiation would prove ef ficient or non-efficient if their Lordships were ig norant of the contents of the Papers upon which that negotiation had been established. That was a question which could be decided by his Majesty's Government alone, because they bad seen the papers ; but their Lordships would never venture to deliver an opinion on a subject of which they knew nothing whatever. He, for one, therefore, should never give his opinion upon such 'donna (lot) ; at the same time be did not wish it to be supposed that he felt any anxiety to drag open the question. He had consented to the Secret Committee, because he considered it both a legal and constitutional proceeding ; but the present was a question totally distinct from that proceed ing, and until he heard those papers, he, for one, would never deliver an opinion on the present subject. The question was then put, and the House ad journed. ;For the Proceedings hi the House of Commons, sec our Fourth Page.) I mroIITANT boctiAlgNTS.—Tiln QULEN COMMUNICATIONS on the Part of THE QUEEN with HIS MAJESTY'S GOVERNMENT 1 laid before Both Hauser of Patliament, June 18-204 (No. I ) COMMUNICATION' horn THE QUEEN to the Earl tit LlvEnpool: The Queen commands Mr. Brougham to iisprin Lord 4i vcrpool, that she has directed her most serious attention to the declared sense of Parliament, as to the propriety of some amicable adjustment of existing Differences being attempted; and submitting to that high authority with the gratitude due to the protection She has always received from it, Her Ma jesty no longer waits for a Communication from the Mini• sters of the Crown, but commands Mr. Brougham to an nounce Her own readiness to consider any Arrangement that can be suggested consistent with Her Dignity and Honour. One o'Clock, Friday, 9th Jane 1112 n. • (No 2 The Earl of LIVERPOOL in Answer to the Communication from The (2nEEN on the same Day. Lord Liverpool has had the honour of receiving the Llneen's Communication of this day, • and begs leave to acquaint Her Majesty that a.Memorandom delivered by Lord Liverpool to Mr. Brougham on the 15th April last, contains the Proposi t,ons erhich Lord Liverpool was commanded by the King to communicate through Mr. Brougham tuller Majesty. Her Majesty has not I.):2en advised to return any Answer to those Propositions, hut Lord Liverpool assures tier Ma jesty that the Kings Scr;ants will still thiHk it their duty, notwithstanding all that ha; passed, to receive for cOnsidera tion'any'Sliggestions which Her Nlajesty or Her Advisers may have to offer upon those Propositions. Fife House, 9th June, 1820. (N, , . 3.) Communication from The QUEEN to the Ear) of L►vE:nvooi.. The Queen commands Mr. Brougham to inform Lord Li verpool that She has received Isis Letter, arid that the Menu randurn of April 15, 1820, which the Proposition made through Lord Hutchinson had appeared to supersede, has also been now submitted to her Majesty for the first llsne. Her Majesty does not consider the Terms there specified as at all accUrding with the Condition nisou which She inform ed Lord Liverpool yesterday that She would entertain a Pro pmel, namely, that it should be consistent with her Dignity and Honour. At the same time She is willing to acquit those who made this Proposal, of intending any thing offensive to Her Majesty: and Lord Liverpool's Letter indicates a dispo sition to receive any suggestions which She issiy offer. Her Majesty retains the same desire which She command ed Mr. Brougham yesterday to express, of submitting tier own wishes to the authority of Parliament, now so decisively interposed. Still acting upon the same principle, She now cosuniands Mr. Brougham to add, that She feels it necessary, berme making any further Proposal, to have it understood that the reeognitiorr of Her flank and Privileges as Queen, must he the Basis of any Arrangement which can he made. The moment that Basis is established, Her Majesty will be ready to suggest a method by which She conceives all emitt ing Differences may be satisfactorily adjusted, 10th June 120.. (Nu. 4.) The Earl of Ltvcarom, ic4 Ausw•er to the Cornmonicatiom from The QUEEN of the 10th June, 16520. Lord Liverpool has had the honour of receiving the Queen's Communication, and caonat refrain front expressing the ex treme surprise of the King's Servants that the Memorandum of April rotly, the only Proposition to Her Majesty, which ever was authorised by His M:ijesty, should nut have been submitted to Her Majesty until yesterday. That Memorandum contains so full a Communication of the intentions and views of the Ki ig's Government with re spect to the Queen, as to.hive entitled His Majesty's Ser vants to an equally frank, full, and candid explanation ou the part of Her Majesty's Advisers. The Memorandum of the 15th April, while it proposed that Her Majesty should abstain from the exercise of the Rights and Privileges of Queen with certain exceptions, did not call upon Her Majesty to renounce any of then,. Whatever appertains to Her Majesty by Law, as Queen, must continue to appertain to Her so long as it is nut abro gated by Law. The King's Servants in expressing their readiness to receive the Suggestion for a satisfactory Adjustment which Her Ma jesty's Advisers promise, think it right, in order to save time, distinctly to state that any Proposition which they could feel it to be consistent with their duty to recommend to His Ma jesty, must have fur its Basis Her Majesty's Residence Abroad. 11th June 1120. (No. 5.) Communication from The QUEEN to the Earl of LivEnron,— The Queen commands Mr. Brougham to acknowledge hav ing received Lord Liverpool's Note of last night, and to in form his Lordship that Her Majesty takes it for granted that the Memorandum of April 15, was not submitted to Her be fore Saturday, only because Her Legal Advisers had no op portunity of seeing Her Majesty until Lord Hutchinson was on the spot prepared to treat with Her. Her Majesty commands Mr. Brougham to state, that as the Basis of Her recognition as Queen is admitted by the King's Government, and as His Majesty's Servants express their rea diness to receive any Suggestion for a satisfactory Adjust ment, Her Majesty, still acting upon the same Principles which have always guided Her conduct, will now point out a method by which it appears to Her that the object in contem plation may be attained. Her Majesty's Dignity and Honour being secured, She re gards all other matters as of comparatively little importance, and is willing to leave every thing to the decision of any Per son or Persons of high Station and Character, whom both Parties may concur in naming, and who shall have author ity to prescribe the Particulars as to Residence, Patronage and Income, subject of course to the approbation of Parliament. 12th June 1620. (No. 6 ) The Earl of LIVERPOOL in Answer to the Corknourtication from I'llE QUEEN of the 12th of June, 1820. Lord Liverpool has received the Communication made by The Queen's Commands. The King's Servants feel it to be unnecessary to enter into any Discussion on the early parts of this Communication, ex cept to repeat that the Memorandum delivered to Dlr. Mrougham of the 15th April, contained the only Proposition to the Qusen which The King authorized to be made to Fier Majesty. 'l:l.e Views and Sentiments of the King's Government as to Iter Nl“jcst) 4 s adtuni !-littlation arc 1.1616001 y 011)13.1,- Lord Liverpool's Note of the llth in tent. Lord Liverpool will proceed therefore to the Proposal on the part of Her Majesty at the close of this Comui tion—viz. " Th a t Sh e i s w illin? t o l eave ev ery thing t(i br Decision of any Person or Prisons of high **len an d C racter, Who4n both l'arties may concur in naming; a nj :,i , shall have anebority to prescribe the Pktlrtkohir• flI 4 10 ' t e deuce, Patronage antl.lncurny, subject of Nurse to the 3 P ir hatien of Parliament." The King's Confidential Servants cannot think it consi ° , with their Constitutional Responsibility to advise rite i‘! to submit to any arbitration, a matter to deeply coon° with the Honour and Dignity of His Crown, and wit h most important Public Interests; but they are fully t ell Isle of the advantages which may be derived from an tin. served Personal Discussion ; and they are therefore prep° to advise His Majesty to appoint two of His Majesty's C °ll dential Serra nts,who, in concert with the like no riiber Of P . sons to be named by The Queen, may frame an Arrancet el . to be submitted to His 'Majesty, for settling, upon the 105 ' of Lord Liverpool's Note of the Ilth in , tant, the nuCeso Particulars of Her Majesty's future Situation. ' • lath June 1820. (No 7.) , r Note front t the nari of to 'Sir. BROUGTTAX, li:toying. his Answer to the Communication front QuEEN of the 12th Jane 1820. Lord Liverpool prectents his compliments to Mr. Broae i° and requests that he will inform The Queen, that if companying Answer should not appear to require any Wr ' . Lord Liverpool is prepared to name the tWO Persons "' h . ; Ills Nlajesty will appoint fur the purpose retorted to 4 1 I Note. 13th Jung:, 1320. (No. S.) Mr. IlteouGir to the Earl of Li v suiroot, stain' qt has received The Qvf EN ' A Commands to name to toed the two who may he named on the fart of II JEsTV's Government fur settling an Arrang.entent. tr Mr. Brougham presents his compliments to Lord O il ' I pool, and begs l e ave t o inf o r m hi m , th a t h e h as rece ived Queen'sCominands to name two Per s ons t o mee t the t 4 whom his Lordship may nam e on th e p ar t o f Hi s Nl3.lr‘ Government, for the purpose of settling an rrangetor nt. Mr. Brougham hopes to be favoured with Lord Livere) nomination this evening,, in order that an early •appuilit l ' fur a meeting to-morrow may tale pkce. 14th June, 1810.- APPENDIX. , Memorandum for a proposed Arrangement. „ with Tie , -4- r " TI IF. Act of the .54th Geo. 111, cap. 10, reCornir d I , separa' ion of the Prince Pegent from the l',.i.ncess of and allotted a separate Provision for the PriuceS9: j 4 Is l This Provision was to continne during th e Life of 1 , i , Majesty, and to determine at His Demise. • In consequence of that event, it has altogether ceor' s !;:e no Provision can be marte for Her until it shall Majesty to recommend to Parliament an Arrangem ent that purpose. fa s t4l The King is willing to recommend to Parliament f pl His Majesty to settle an Annuity of 50,0001. x tear liP t ' r t , o QBeen, to be enjoyed try Her during Her natural life, a" ; lieu of tiny claim in the nature ofJoint rue or otherwise, ed She will engage nut to come into any part of the B 60 0 minions, and provided She engages to take some 01 her : P io or Title than that of Queen, and not to exercise any ''f to Rights or Privileges of Queen, other than with respe ct jU the appointment of Law Officers, or to any proceediog4 'Courts of Justice. The annuity to cease upon the violation of those en' - 7,0 ments, viz. upon her eaing into any part the P rit : rn ef Dominions, or her assuming the title of Queen, or her e '; f o eising any of the Rights or Privileges of Queen othe f t o d above excepted, after the annuity have been set fa upon her. Upon her consent to an engagement on the '` li . n o conditions, Mr. Brougham is desired to obtain a (tech:'o(oli to this elf, et, signed by herself; and at the same time 3 0 ,1 authority to conclude, with such person as his Majv sti appoint, a formal engagement upon those principles. ISth April, PitcyrocoLs. (No. 1.) 0 5 PitoTocot, of the First Conference, hell in St. Ja— square, June 15th, 18/0. 10 11' In pursuance of the Notes of the 13th and 14tb ; the Dulie of Wellington :ind Lord Castlereagh, on t he 1 1 of The King, having flirt Mr. Brougham and Mr• I 7 t d Her Majesty's Law Officers, in order to facilitate l b ' I ,i posed personal discussions, it was suggested lir the f . °''' Pe' t let. That the Persons named to frame an arrange rne'- though representing different Interests, should consid er selves in discharge of this duty, not as opposed to eac i ' °V I; but as acting in concert with a view to frame an arraa er s l l , in complianc e with the understood wish of Parliamen t ' 11 : 01 i may avert the necessity of a Public Inquiry into the ilif tioo laid before the tiro Ilooses. , oe; 2d. The Arrithgement to he made omit be of such a 113.1, f , i re as to require from neither Party any concession as to the to which such Inquiry, if proceeded on, might lead' f t , Queen must not be understood to admit,, or the to tract any thing. jO l bOV e jA 3d. That in order the better to accomplish the a . - - portant object, it was proposed that whatever might the first Conference should pledge neither pnrty to an co nion, that nothing should be recorded without PreviouB 00 munication, and, as far as possible, Common Consent' o ts' that in order to facilitate Explanation and to encourld s reserved Di4e ussion , the substance only of what passes s be reporteJ. These iireiintinary oints being agreed to, the, qttet-oi.ilitr be examined (as coutainedin Lord Lirerpool.'s, AIF of the 15th April, 1820, delivered to Mr. rtrough aul Frr- rd t° to his proceeding to St.Omer's • and Lord LiverP a°l '4 010 °( of the 11th of June, and Mr. Mougliares Note of ti t 4 I June, written by the Queen's Commands) were . Ist. The future Residcr4;e of the Queen alivo-v 1 " 0 1 10 The Title which Her Majesty might think 6t t° - when t avellitig on the Conti (4eti.t. at ° ;'1 3d. The Non-Exercise of certain Rights Of P 3tr° : ie g England, which. it might he desirable that I-ler Nl3jC,:.' - desist from exercising should she reside abroad" c ; 3 II " 4th. The suitable Inioonie to be assigned (Or lif Qin en residing abroad. ance t) ' Her Nl.ijesty', Law Officers, on the par t of the pi sired in the ferst instance, that the foul t!) point sti e jj 4ir togtther laid laid: in i'f:Cit Colick'rencei ; 14'1/4 l