The Sun. — London, England, 1842-03-24 00:00:00

- :.• ...-7,-:.."--,-............ tubed, namely, f! r, hear.) Thlt; -11 !, try at this mome nt, it nn the other AO ,nev might not bat. 1 duties on timber, nrce—there was no f consumption MO! This was the pro n tirely thrown over, eople—not from a9_l i imply from a rega r ' y d;d not dare f$ ument of the Rijill which he thoo, h wo represented hP u co rn, and to toter aronat said be.cota :att , e the increa.o a gainst the dirnhji.! [his be set off? 'Oa; revenue arose 4 very hiLh prlce,:!, ry : it was a sigq,,,a: gn that a man Oar he c ,uld get ani ed so much in corn, therefore, t he exeil ght the Corn i ~, c its price at al. case , it might °' Put tbe so g,rea t. _,. rocropol):. (...V le other Otte 0.14 tune to say a ..Z ia venture to men!. _ ug h' to bare le ; The,' 7 re pot.te. , i i _,.... 0 nonopolieS 01,,,...;";,, the o ,lv , artn ir „ l i e 'tow"' All t . k ii6iilil d they thin 1000 ? were sfileeta 00 by not ProPP f o r por, e gather itis„ 3 head d her 'Os the au t° ''e a"Il° . Baronet, tight _ on : ~ :_,„ 11 to fllSClalin ti!S,'.l.ll, Right 1100. ,'':',o, d used such cort,l,l,ou 4 ......( near , hear c _ A i ugar interelto;a a year , An, l atig h , 3., heat, ..r., 0 , 0 eir snonopu. fr, Cheers. Furl s ll incestor s wall ; 11 ,1,1 o and surrotocieam ly then, °lt 0. for his bo r.) (Louti Isui.„ 0 v-honnetrt'oo, tea up . - f j ; tlO e V. lint 1 1 4 0 time, cone, 01 aw and triPej',.., tion of fore! Baronet' nl O 0 minor moll°lTipt, he hideoto_4./ would, cot if;tioi were en d p ot destroy th. e , t he e was huroweiiiiis wished bi`iirii) tradehole..e ,e in 5 ,11,1 0 that ifist e r, l4 ere to 01:„' chi t the '• It h e r sr ieet portant c"hotor deeply Mil or) et.—( Heir], l he truste"We ta k e n up t i Ittsl o o v- ote 1,7;0. 1 1 a wished to .4 . , r at place, M o e 1 11 4 ra tion, bdr e , P_ .l of advantage'rtir h was sf , 1 0:, mieal, an ° 01' S " Treasury .- so 4 ' direct I.llfige, WO 0 ° ' Pr Ford the Pf, 1 ,40 44 ;sing eireure-.1.11 cation eras l e d, " I who was tat. pe and gale t!:,111. to functiooar:j,ss, 1g the re;:f !nted to a fr,t,V ;. Hon. 13° 9 )00 ~boll of th e ill . ._ i t wal- , pi salve a s eestoco, rorosed, b ~ ,it t o caving 1111 ~ hear.) lb:011,41ta 1 what I' 4 i , - , tai I , le p i alf' td passeo .70/1 ry had beel4 a r i Deco elctenric't be grotindwProgef e eountrY2oooo, l i n g the re • 4", eti; it Hon. , ' ' . on. lif f; il ‘ pr : ndlturek •,•,f ..-; n t SOrlifq-74?-tbs for ' lO/„Atr„11 0 ~-o'-`!:os ~,, ,---..„aititat. .t lief , °vl" ft'rec Whe°'°;(l in tl it machbci ;,ii: t a ; 1 11 e 113"PePr(IL4fel)1 !ri tbet ofe,'4/,,, e r;(; ) 04 `?" wa rt, ~.o i 00'40P,„,,... tY OPfti'irj i 1 king ' l e' be IC Stittfi rt •• • di . ffif. t ;ight duP•4l;i*i, , r a • ll 0 01, a 111 5 4° . ) Elear, b 3l . ' pl i l l , Ift lit :ere .c ,;us ance, andVVlVol.lti Illinet 0 #tir t f igtt 0 ,00 00 01 0 at hey F:0'( but for 5 h Olt ld n°:(1, OT, n t intend r , ee l 6 0 P e O r ' !ed to too 04 in a i t u bo P O4 OO , sou " re , ~ye iced f 0%. ; , ;;,0 on euSlc;-001°., s SW. it... j os 0 iippink-epOtroi !nt car..:l( e,o , [ certork r! 0 •ifr of oo to ir , ein 0 fr ' clit,the . 1 ' ! ago , _ 10 • "to ! - ,0 1 :utiop 0.04 i t 00 eme5i,b1....00,,•0r hat ai9 ji aolif're' Hem • $04 1 !:/ re' ; of tb e. ?9 t4 and yoter oe' • arid , of e„,,,,f . rn t: Jou le 0 , - 0 ,0 reig.66,,refetece of her e • j so" j 1)1 ~r ,001.00 — "Ow r '1 30 .,,5 , 1 ,:. g,,. t i,- 4 m, r ,`„tio °r e d b/ the .- op, Of IIY b l.le fi 1 ," WA ie No.--tiolc t,iet i f to °f de' e , n'aeitfere'2ll:o rellit,, re au3ot%e gig s a i ) t°, t ,, a i rrt 01 4° oo l, it t. • el /6,°°''. 0 0 tha t bat of re , i po A t ,00 o he Pipties? ; Ace d _,,,, of rev; it sou V o id tP b ,, t• w oult i % 1 Ig ot otrY beer "go ‘ the all sl I °old 'o t bs ig eate d 1,, 1 ,, Pr es night P i o , the ; a lbi L ,i Iti nevi .hr „ s te. ~, 6 ,0 sogg' d 0- throw 00' Lto sp. f e 4 ;en tleT,e, owis K bets 'Pi c ', jut, ,e sveo et, OW ° to ' oo• ~,u t e . _of C oot t ' uil , s etoto ja.acq vii,stP.„, 1,5pec,i.„'',405.5t go of I" - se J, ill httoh3it:oue IP 4 , wouluhi ifoo:, the P i i ,"( 1$ w peri O , i ptr 1' h i nt tat. ° °- ,1 to P I „ t hat that .. f ll ' d fro ° ce rve . to l et re e arl , a is. bu t r u $ Gent le d l9 , 4 s ro e jt'' , !roar ,foin .. alb the eu,peol, ied r l Lhe re , !:„ 1 ,0 , - , ii ,pt , , , n ee, att' h Fpirits, _.ati,,t, • tofto a ~-,, 0 trc •,c,earof t ):etaill: o f re°e.,11,,,0 .• cologlailit; of oancial plan to aj ler 0 ' Le importat.loo 0,. of. such ' t t ioe , the i'nP °r ,, 1 1 1 , 4 ,1 eriving a ,_. vi re theme P_., t i, re schernetto;3 to he regre ate M b e if ii who 1 ,00 'just the $ t s e to : isfact ° 'iniso rid 35 u a , LI ) e , l of i ' cb envy' c oen! f e .eve th 4h e a t tl!,`.,f , on e --- 0 0- I f be s uP `it'''.i t to relieviitorty the i n q ui ved re ° w hole n' 1) 0 hat it t0,,„24 5 er50n posses se d of real income should be taxed to a ! !'arra.at g r eater amount th an t h ose whose incomes were flue e• He suppo se d t h at such an amendment to the present 4:nwould not b e cons i stent with the views of the Right Hon. et, but he must say that such an amenlment would do I t with a considerable portion of the unpopularity that must 41 7 . to every such measure. The Right HOA. Baronet had 1,4 11 ,,, 5 ted; from the class in Schedule D., an amount of th e 1 5 `,'Yul• ; if it were consistent with the views of tRo Right Honourable Baronet to tax this class in Per cent. instead of three, it would make a lie'Ftton, of one-third from the estimate, or about 400,000 i. - I ,,,..!'°Ught it not impossible to make up that difference from Val• other source. He might point out some articles in the new oithe change in which he could not see the necessity of followed P• He could not see that so much advantage 11 . attend the change in the timber duties as was supposed. ar.reduction on timber wag calculated at 600,030/. Notice 4-tatut amendment had been put on the paper to exempt this ..,fir° ll l the tax altogether, but this would not be at all fair. j,_ar; hea) There was no reason why large incomes th ft r o rough the medium of trade should be exempt snore An gee:1111Z" P r° PerrY ; but a difference might fairly be made. °ettl had arisen when great exertion was necessary, and d the n . e „, 11 opposite had not shown that they could have raise tit% wriesahly_,re.sources without . resorting to the mode of taxa -40 alt er .eau been repudiated by that House. He could see ti, e en native butt° adopt the present rrinciple, and he thought " t un trY Would submit to such a plan for a time.—(Hear.) ,itsi t i llti trd that, in three years, they . should . be in a " that could justify them in taking off the tax. was an only say that his belief and opinion was, that f it the on bthe 4 7 an unpopular one, that unpopularity ought to all ring %lidera of those who caused the:deficiency, and who, .op po left it, were not now prepared to assist their present .!enri tic , ll - 4 ,' and not on the shoulder; of those who were endea remove it _(Cheers. ) Nitti N NISON D'EYNCOURT had listened to the • treat °` the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down with Atillesi3,ey-aszt:rreti..e,ile quite agreed with him, that if any stern f imposition s of the tax existed, the people . o orfeirrY wou l d to a man strive to bear a fair portion of it ti/ In t 'try t° ,, k eeP up public credit, and meet the enemies o 'ar ,the ' , a he did not believe that the great necessity b in to ' a Z existed. He thought it should be called frog ,a me tax alone, because it was quite different V % iCtiv Pr "ertY tax, because it pressed upon the H various Ma tt ;4 , Int erests of the country. The Right on h . .I.taa; wee lAit' thought that r said there was no resource but sue e if the measures of the late Govern- Aich (e earri d `,". ,:..., esi st .„ .... -eo t h ey would go tar to remove the necessity • j a " , oehi "" (Hear, hear)—and while they were untried he • tos, t e a e i t ts to any other taxes. They were going to have ''' , g t //lo c h w uat which should be reserved for a time of war, , o blleere e ?aid give an impression to foreign countries that 1 1 *•tie t , a l oausted. That appeared to him one of the greatest • , , 14 ° ,4 th lif,,,,;,;: e the tax. He was surprised at the speech of the ' ' , a .„ts . ,a t i i 4 __ r for the county Limerick. It appeared that as 1 fnio 4 „,not . press upon his country he would be willing , to ' { l 'll4 Me ng it on the people of England.—( Hear.) The ,:i t allieCentbers on his (Mr. I'. D'Lyncoures) side of the ~.'h ., j ''.enth e ,,;`` oeYer taken that course with respect to that Hon. . 'it r a eonntry—( Hear, hear)—and the Hon. Gentleman i kilre est assured that no example he could set them of that r y :I I : 1 ° 1 1 1 d induce them to follow it. After hearing the s• ' ak ,,h; t ,"„e non. Member for Berkshire, whl had just sat C u ted b‘ alr * 1 ' - O 1,•• Y the D'Evneourt) was not surprised at the course s ' aad -Wers • — •( Opposition cheers. ) Ex uno disco omnes Right Hon. Gentleman in imposing silence en • eheer s s . . „ • Li t tt,,, 0 „ • ) He was satisfied that if Honourable yen ' . ' i7•l tP° , ite would open their mouths and give the House , ,Z 'fati..,opinions, that the greater part of them would 1:V . 4 , 0 t , to express opinions of a nature similes .s * rtne re a tch had been expressed by the Hon. Member for 't. , 6 .1 hiP), • ."" (Cheers.) He (Mr. T. D'Epicourt) knew '•,,,'•i a lelle t ;' and honourable feelings entertained by many Hon. ' ''',7_4th, en oneorite, and he could not bring himself to believe 111 ; a 1 ;71f ,, il leauld lend themselves to class legislation of this no ' ee . -:,'• ILL or ti ,rs )—that they would press unduly upon the in '‘aittt,,...,,us country to sustain the landed and the West In .:, tfamviiTsts.--( Hear, hear.) It was his (Mr. T. D'Eyti . 211: , eti oic tcnti on at the proper time to move a considerable ,-, • ll•of t h ia the tax to be paid by the trades and the iirofes a',L4,, trad e. ,! hazy dous e If a man laid out 20,000/. 3 .. L . ffe ,ga.in t . : . le more hazardous the speculation the greater were In ,i, e . , The more hazardous the speculation, the larger 11_9 1 ie galas expected, because this capital was returned to .n.k ~_,!,elishape of income ; but the whole concern might , . ' ,l ilt 01 7 4 before it was completed, and then it was the ria -81-0%) i rtal, and not the nature of income. —(Hear, ,-.. Ve ta x ,_` the interest on capital was 20 per cent., •i , sTWo u l t r i ' s uld amount to one-sixth, and if to 10 per cent. i' e litio ste r one-third ; and he should therefore propose 2d, ; a u of 7d. in the cases of trades and professions, it should (Ith at • 4 l, the pound, which wes somewhere about one-fourth tk. t no te ls s Proposed. The Right Hon. Gentleman had said, iise_ k ot ~Tirces were left to the country but this one. Now, 41:4 Government, Gentleman had admitted that the proposals of Lk had they been adopted, would have cert .,. Bi t R e income unnecessary.tax s' 4 14 r.'f . 11 ,•t;EL dissented. '',e°, l l. G_ " EYNCOURT, then, would say it for the Right ~ r itot ent lernan.—(Laughter.) Hon. Gentlemen opposite • Zia th„,P e rhaps hear that admission ; but it was quite clear, ';'- 4441 1 1 .711 e h' it latement of the Right Hon. Baronet, that if that : . ) e e ef i tie heen adopted, there would have then been bat a ~4,,,ltight i i!cY• He thought thi3 could be made out in figures. „,b.,Z11; no _ non. Baronet expected one million from the tax on ,17 ) !•itea tt ,,7 under the Bs. duty he might have reasonably ea ,)L ii 01 , 0 _7 Millions, an d thi s wou ld h ave p rev e n t e d th e re s ort i ng ~, trs o f t rrtY tax. They must recollect that twenty-six mil- HtieteE..aaes had been repealed since the war; and he (Mr. 1 ;lite% t E r court) thought that, out of that twenty-six millions of t ;i2r o -47 .. _e surely was one to make up the small deficiency of „psi, un, without resorting to that impost upon the menu , .F.,ilikand trading interest of the country. He coual tell `; t 7lt s _h is t Honourable Baronet that he had received letters elk24th (Mr. Tennyson D'Eyncourt's) constituents, and they '. t ,''''Tth e at in consequence of their known political feelings they ' ' ''' Placed in a very awkward position with respect to the st. a si• ' •„„, of the income tax. He was quite certain such eon .W' 4 ., , •us could slot be imputed to the Right Hon. liaronet, ~,...„Ple tax would bring !the taxpayer under the control , , ea ta wsvernment to a considerable extent, he had no doubt. ..:, , 4; , t t i t my that the Right Hon. Baronet had not given suf •e-: tha t ioe for consideration of this income tax. 'the forms Ita te P;ls! did not permit the people of this country to come t ,l t i l r e .tneir views ot the subject, and he thought that a rea t,,,iiii oie tirn e time should be given for meetings to take place ~,. .tat i d iZ e t nat, a e c :ei ding ! ' s d h ut g the proposal. The Right Hon. Baronet said, and to the firms of that House, they N s , , PPoPtunite for consideration when the resells dia., , were passed. .1 hat was - perfectly true, but he knew better a, IV ne ( Mr. T• DT :,.'4...isi eti , • Yncourt) did, that after they came to a • tho u Pun that 4,, . rm.., Pa that the Hon. Gentlemen who gave ,IN,te.e.orrvenient to i e o f that resolution, would find it very Orefor e reeorc re a vote afterwards against that vote they 4, ,i stdOStify that vote, ; but they would, on the contrary, be inclined Ptht, thi s w u " , whatever was said against it. Now . he 4 0;F i r t. those as a reason why time should yet be given to I,,l•ls4oRight Non. Baronet, especially considering the secrecy for which he did not blame him. • 4 sr.tO tit ' t • lls- tnade his statement, and he thought it was indecent ape „- t l td sh e y not to give a little more time than that proposed •• ,t1,1, €. , first vote was given on the subject . Having stred 191 e . 'Mho • ' ~. b „„ %% 4 _ _pe the Rightßarodet would be inclined to , J' s c he Zitirther time, and he hoped that hereafter it would ~ted7si.dered inconsistent if Hon. Gentlemen opposite re r la co_netir votes. He hoped the Right Hon. Baronet t h_aratj ati a a ., ,ler this, and he hoped he would introduce some 41 4 . ! h e tv_wit% regard to mercantile and professional men— lAnts.....tirlid consider the effect it would have on foreign fth lne o „,! inquisitorial nature of that tax. He (Mr. T. - ePosisi, t l") could assure him he should give it his decided %Sir J . . .h e .„ l 2. G eati _ ll ElD said, that so far from agreeing with the ...101! giv en " an who had just sat down, as to further time •1 fititlet ty to consider thissubject, he trusted the Right Hon. 4 . ' , te.,y . 0 0 . 11 ,.. 1t1 take the sense of the House that night. He ~,i i°elsi ~.;`,. Reid) did not hesitate to declare that it was the ..:}ra bu s ign_ lon of the mercantile interest of , the country, that 1 1 a!t1e_,,,,",5. of the country was impeded by delay in that , a a N) oo ,f p near, hear.) With that feeling he (Sir. J. R. '• ' ' b at; i ts u not follow the example set by the Hon. Gentle ion , g.oing into discussion upon that great and important • ' , • "/di s ii ited ont he most be permited to say, that although ,••*, i tate to P j aYing such a tax, still at the same time he did not h,eh th e u tela , e, that under the existing circumstances in ,ta i s °ool o, c ,Potry , was placed, and considering her burdens, s thtt li t te c o "'Nigh reluctantly, pay his quota.—( Loud laughter ~ e st i titet h. Pliositiox benches.) He felt himself bound to pay ', I S , t 7lat - '--,,7 o o r sidered a fair-and just complement to the Hon. ia. , it i2. a nd h Limerick, who had so fairly spoken on that sub lts? to h a t (Sir J. R. Reid) would have been peculiarly gra •• . ti a i ell 04 t ' r ,_ seen his example followed by other Hon. Gen , ''‘oll , J . ,',Le same side of the Hottse.—( Hear, hear.) That \I ~ 'lti d ell t n• Reid) was a party man to a certain extent he did ~ ki p% cut at the same time he was independent of the 's kt aetait i, a t,liaronet. He was connected with the commercial ,0 0 .„ . ohj eat u .,u although part of the Right Hon. Baronet's plan '•• le s luak o ettet, still he did not hesitate to declare to those , vesityotteith that interest, that it was the opinion of the %et h,, t t i he commercial interest that the course the Hon. kuPri:lgh all 1 taken was one which would carry him triumphantly b lit ed . He the difficulties with which he was Bur - to ti ., he ~. had been set down as a sanguine man, tla,Ztio ti m i d not hesitate to declare that his firm ,' is a Zi lot s and belief was, that the Right Hon. Baronet ttl nu, flinch, and he hoped he would not ; and he h54i," in the course of three years or before, it would be It s 'l ei kos 'Y necessary to continue the tax which they were I§4 B tlon g•—(Hear, hear.) He would wit detain the 11, fe e I I ", for he was a man of business —( Laughter)— ; INLatild,, e w, l ould come to the point.— ( Renewed laughter.) ~ IS-17p wh at(to with the Right Hon. Baronet, be the cense atei the theY may.—( Loud ironical cheers. ) He im. ~,, to t , Ita a i i l th at 4 ,7 Ma the question to the test that night. He be y' tii - mork h.:"eY had lost a great deal of time unnecessarily—the • '' • tila t t °,nto,7 ll een discussed over and over again. The trade of 4 4 qe y , 4 ,Y was languishing in consequence, and he hoped tb k a ti hi s cold finish the question that night, and he would . • le,* 'tonce that all connected with the trade of the • . „ di. t .lo/ 14, °1 ' b id . , have no reason to complain. „ 1 i ,t s k ti "td th T) said the Hon. Gentleman who had just ad- I Tit,,i il lt hits a e s f!ouse had made two most important admissions ; scit.t,lakter oat o 'ne representative of a large body of the cominer .,, •,„_eaS ,... f the country he should pay this tax with extreme ii' !Itei.,, ( Laughter) --and, secondly, that there was no ••• had7llrobability of the tax terminating at the time men . r e , kid t Loud cries of " No, no.") The Hon Gentleman ''''' '• I*1), he g h. %,, three or four years—that he hoped it would not last Pim ,J. It u ree or four years. m a in, h REID rose, amidst loud cries of " Order," to to 11% Yewut ha gave or 4 , 1,,, way. ....k,4es. " 1, --It certainly struck upon my ears as very like r e ., , , i - J. tt. ~ 14: Y rote 11 E 11 ) The Hon. Member's ears are perhaps dif '.' • Ile ot i WAt t ,"ee people's.—(Laughter, and cries of " Order.") La t , , ase t i k _" swid perhaps he had not ears which were fre : ato ght er. ,..4l to Hon. Gentlemen on the opposite side-- thi s Ilea w , Under any circumstances the Right Hon. Con g *as t I,:tlidYe the have ti support of Gentlemen opposite, and "nen n attonale of this taxation. A great many of the h e y m *as, i f PPOsite would have gladly taken the Bs., obnoxious v tlt h a . 'll i to k. ac t a h ie l wa eould have foreseen that the modification of 0 . e h ad , sto be obtained at the expense of an inc fally s ,_"re v ., ‘ " ad the pleasure of hearing this stated by those settieuelilives,,"etnintly opposed to him six months ago. He elan_ result tat that there was a better mode of arriving at the a gain ' i n t , _' that sought by this tax—the increasing defi at a i l ' t th is " revenue. There had been an argument urged ' • It h• l e °o ( c A o,.. P . t l o l :a fi l, in which he was bound to say he did not A a . I t. w fiat was, that the income tax was a war tax • • poutos-,,tee a . a .rd) did not consider it so.—( Hear, hear.) et, tic n g ,) t f • h /I NS War U o necessity, whether that necessity -a tt i Por o ut. Another argument was what foreign en %al chest think fthis ° • ' hOsid e bal let . 6 tax, arid that it would lower our 4 04 e th at er in the estimation of the world. He did not 441 .. ar g ill nent worth p,_Net ea rs -hear yof the consideration of the „rtio ti c yst,r h t w • ) Foreign countries were familiar with I"atitpi_:f the. taxation , and many of them raised the larger tha t ~,7 k new '" !Imes by direct taxation. Many of those .. • h at z,:yet,terint butapehttle. cf our indirect s}stem of taxation, and iota of di to w as unjust ot what they did know. They thougnt Ish t o t tli 4 '5 ttaaati , and they had long since adopted a sys it. o t the v axed To• As the R4l Mernhm for Liskeard had ' 'ne Wa s ' property, they taxed the fund from . which th *or le em e • thi lt thi trig e asses , and they were therefore injuring t a lent 1 ,,. system w — a (Hear, hear.) He had been told ' c••• • -` 4 a trie t ne eS and i: a _ great encouragement to fra.u 7 Q ht ty 1. 11 , , expenses re t plar management, and that if they Yt tot o t Y d id 'nor n , . they did not tax his income. In tht My t 0,.., his enjoyments, but they taxed his want and necessaries, and that was the subject which of as othess was moat worthy the considetatien of that House. Now he recollected a speech that was made by an Hon. Friend of his, whom he did Oct see in the House, in which was introduced the calculation of the amount of indirect taxation pre sing upon the working classes. He would give that calculation to the House, as very few Gentlemen were present at the time the Hon. Gen tleman made that speech to the House. This calculation hail been made by a practical man in the City, in a large retail bu- Siness. He said that of two ounces of tea at 4s. per lb., taking this amount for a poor family, the price was 6d. and the duty one j.sound of sugar at 6d., the duty was 2 1 / 2 (1., two ounces of coffee, the price was 20. and the duty Id., with other minor articles of general use, amount ing in all to Is. 7 1 / 2 d. , the amount of duty was 7d, or ed. Now for the same articles for an opulent fa mily the price was 165., and the duty only 3s. 8(1. Thus upon the better articles the taxation was 23 per cent., and 31 per cent. upon the common articles. lie caicillated that out of ls. paid over the couater by a poor woman, she received worth of goods, and the Government hail the remaining 50. This was not confined to these articles alone, either—there were other articles that came equally under the system of indi rect taxation. There was butter, soap, tallow, spirits, cheese, and almost every other article; and all this amount of taxation had to be provided for out of the amount of the wages of the poor, which caused competition, and that competition assisted stagnation of trade. Now he was bound, as ail ho nest man to say, that if he had to choose be tween a 3 per cent. and a 5 per cent:, to avoid the indi rect taxation he would take the 5 per cent., in order to get rid of that system of indirect taxation.—( Hear, hear. ) But when he said this he alluded to a property tax, and not on the incomes derived from labour, which W.i3 in its nature unjust, inquisitorial, anti partial ; and therefore he could not bring ',himself to vote fur the resolution befoie the House. He must say that a property tax was not one only fitted for a time of war, nor did he think it calculated to lower us in the estimation of foreign powers, but still it was a charge in the financial system which ought to be met by the Government with large concessions, In cause a property tax was a most convenient instrument in the hands of any Go vernment. It was only to make a single turn of the screw, and they had additional per tentage, and it was a g eat eneour agement to extravagance, and that charge ought not to be made unless it was purchased on the part of the Governmenr by large concessions of a substantial character. When he heard the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet the other night, he would not reiterate the praise which had been heaped upon that speech, but he would say that a most complicated subject had been gone over in a most masterly manner. It was per fect in itself, and those with the most limited understanding could not fail to have understood it. But he compared the re - sults with the principles laid down, and he did not see that the principle was honestly carried out. He expected some amends for no revision of the duties on corn and sugar. He found that those articles most consumed in the country were un touched, such as cheese and other articles, and from which a re venue of 400,000/. was received. He had carefully examined the proposedt ariff, and he found no such reductions contemplated. Was there any benefit to be derived from the importation of foreign cattle? Certainly not. There was no part of the Continent in which there wa's such bad meat as in Paris. Holstein was the only place which was at all calculated to ex • port cattle, but even there the cattle were yet to be had before they could be brought into the English market. There was no doubt. the income tax was a most grevious burden upon the humble classes. Could there be anything more unjust or op pressive than to impose the same amount of taxes upon the proprietor of landed property, as upon the professional man who, while struggling to arrive at distinction, in hopes of better times, was endeavouring and found it difficult to make th'ngs meet? That injustice was the cause of his ( Mr. Ward's) great obe jection. When he looked to the state of trade in this country-- when he looked to the fact that in the great town / Sheffield) which he had the honour to represent, he believed it would be found that no more than two firms were carrying on what might might be called a profitable trade.—( Hear, hear.) He felt that the measure proposed by her Majesty's Government was a most unjust, arbitrary, and inquisitorial measure— (Cheers from the Opposition)—and as at present advised he was determined not to give it his assent. It might be said that the Government contemplated a salutary change by the introduction of the t ariff—( Hear, hear)—but as that proposition stood at present it was clear there were not many advantages conferred upon the poor of the country. If a revision of the tariff was to be undertaken and an income tax paid as the price of it, he thought the scale should be held by a very impartial and just hand—it should he held with an unflinching hand, and then the ministers who had acted so might appeal to common sense and reason. Fie was sure if they had acted fairly towards the people they shoald have not only his support, but the countenauce and sus port of every Member upon his side of the House—( Hear, hear)—but the Right Hon. Barunet had not done that —he had truckled with the interests of the country. —( Cheers and counter cheers. ) In making his financial statement, the only passage upon which the Right lion. Baronet flinched—the only passage for which the Right Hon. Baronet apologised--the only passage in which he clearly felt sensible that he was in the wrong, was with reference to the sugar duties.—( Hear, hear.) He talked of the duties upon slave sugar, and yet, in the very next breath, he said he was prepared to remove the duty on slave grown Brazilian coffee and sugar. The manifest object was to benefit select classes of the country. What he ( Mr. Wood) wished was, that all classes should be fairly dealt with. Every body should be shown that the object f the Government was nut to benefit a few—that the object was not to bolster up taxes, but to get every necessary upon as cheap terms as it was pos sible. If the Government recommended an income tax if it was necessary, and that they protected the interests of the country in other respects, there was, he (Mr. Wood) was sure, not one man upon his side of the House who would not support them.—( Ironical cheers.) They had a right to consider and weigh well all the hardships of that tax—they should discuss itat length, as they had a perfect right to do. The burdens which it was proposed to lay upon professional gentlemen, whose incomes were fluctuating, and unlesss • they ( the Oppo sition Members) heard, as it was stated by the Hon. Member fir Berkshire, that there were Members on that side of the House who were prepared to concur with him k Mr. Wood) —he (lid not think there could be any reason upon the part of the Right Hon. Baronet to be in the least surprised to meet with opposition; at the same time he (Mr. Wood) should say he thought that that opposition should not be unparliamentary. (Hear, hear, from the Ministerial benches. ) He slid not think it would benefit his own party, or their case, to carry that op position beyond a reasonable limit.—(Cheers from the Mims • terial benches.) He wished merely to see the sense of Pasha meet expressed fully upon the subject, and then, if the mea sure was carried, ,he best tlijtig to be done was to oppose, or endeavour to have the most objectionable parts of it amended. Mr. M. ATT WOOD did not at all agree with those who thought that measure should be precipitately carried to a con lusion. It was a measure affecting a vast number of people, and undoubtedly it desrved the most serious consideration. (Cheers from the Opposition.) When n measure like that was proposed, after 25 years of peace, time ought to be given for the discussion of it, in order that it might be carefully and deliberately considered, in ail its bearings and in all its effects upon the interests of the country; he thought that time, and more than enough of time, should be given to the people them selves to consider it, so as that they might have an abundant opportunity to communicate to the House their sentiments upon the mea.ure, either through their representatives, or by petitions. ( Hear, hear.) He could not but think that delay,• and much more consideration than the measure had received, was highly necessary, and would be most beneficial to her Majesty's Ministers themselves.—( Cheers.) He was fully convinced that there were many parts of the measure very hastily considered—and all should admit it required much modification—(Loud cheers from the Opposition)--for instance, the precarious incomes of professional men and annuitants, which terminated in a com paratively short period, were to be submitted to the same amount of taxation as land, or any other species of permanent property. He (Mr. Attwood) had heard with great surprise the statement of the Right Honourable Baronet when he said it was the intention of her Majesty's Go-. vernment to impose upon annuitants the same amount of taxation as upon permanent property. As an illustration of the injus tice of such a measure as that, he would take the liberty of stating to the House, for the consideration of the Right Hon. Baronet himself, a case, of which he (Mr, Attwood) was per sonally cognizant, and one of that class of cases which it is necessary to be considered deliberately, so as to ascertain whether it, was really wise to mpose such a tax as that. The case to which he alluded was an annuity for ten years, pur chased by him ( Mr. Attwood) and his vartners for 21,797/. That annuity was to expire in 1845. Now, although he and his partners were taxed at the rate of 3 per cent. for thot annuity, was it supposed that it was any thing like pxed capital! • In their accounts, they accurately designated the amount of that 21,7971. as capital. They calculated it at 6,0001., and upon that sum the profit was equally divided. Was it just that they should be taxed for the additional 15,7971., unless it was intended to tax all the capital of the country ? He would put the case of a proprietor of land who had sold his property, suppose • for 2,000/. —that lie was to receive the purchase-money in 1842, together with 1,0001.? being fur the the last year's rent of the property, was it fair to tax the rent and the money obtained for the sale of the estates. Suppose a morteage was had for 20,0001., and that the interest and principal were paid, would it be fair to tax the interest as well as 'the principal or would the House consent to tax the principal alone ; and if they decided upon taxing the principal only, he was at a loss to know upon what principle of justice or reason a tax should be imposed upon annuities? And if the Parliament, in its legislative capacity, did determine upon imposing that tax, as undoubtedly it had a right to do if it thought fit, he 01r. Attwood) thought tnat annuitants should have a right to call upon the Government in another capacity to reimburse them for the taxes to Which their property was in Isis (Mr. Attwcod's) Opinion unretasen ably subjected.—( Hear, hear ) These annuities were pur chased upon the authority of an Act of Parlia ment, which explicitly provided that they should not he liable to any description of taxes ; and if he hereafter applied to his Hon. and Learned Friend, the Attorney-General, fur his opinion upon the sucject, he (Mr. Attwood) would expect to hear from that Right Hon. Gentleman that even though this measure was adopted, annuitants, circumstanced as he (Mr. Attwood) and his partners were, would have a . claim to be reimbursed.—(Cries of ." Hear, hear.") He urged this, in order to show the necessity of considering that tax in all its bearings, and with a view to endeavour to persuade the House to mitigate the injustice of the proposed measure; at the same time, he felt bound to say, that whatever course her Majesty's Government might adopt upon that measure, if they persisted In passing it, as it was at present proposed or recommended to the House—if they should say that they could not draw the line of distinction as to what sort of property ought or ought not to be taxed—that to make the tax productive it was impossible to draw the line, he (Mr. Attwood) was determined to give the resolutions proposed against the measure Isis most cordial support.—(Loud cheers from the Opposition benches, and, ironical cheers.) He should yield to the necessity of supporting a political party, he should yield to the necessity es adopting measures fur the removal of that appalling picture of the distressed condition of the people which was drawn by the Right Honourable Gentleman, but while he (Mr. Attwood) said that he felt bound to say also that there were many points of the financial scheme pro posed by her Majesty's Government to which he would never con. sent.—(Cheers.) No consideration of false politics would induce him to support that measure or any other measure at any time, or by whomsoever brought forward, which would injure or bring to ruin any great branch of British commerce for the sake of conferring benefits upon selected classes.—(Renewed cheers from the Oppo. sition and counter cheers.) No vague or visionary expectations of doubtful or contingent advantages would induce him to support that measure. —(Increased cheers.) The Right llonourab'e Baronet at the head of the Government admitted that the country was in a most deplorable 'State of distress— that the people defended themselves from the taxes on consump tion by discontinuing to consume. After that statement of the Right lion. Baronet, nothing could fall upon his (Mr. A.'s) ears more ominous of the declining power of this country, than the Right lion. Baronet's announcement, that in this state of the country he was about to propose measures of commercial reform. He carried it so his mind, and he called on the Committee to carry it in their minds. What was meant by that statement ? Why, before the commencement of the career of - commercial reform, the people of this country paid 80,000,0001. of taxes upon articles ofconsumption. Since that period 29,000,0001., had been redirced, and at present the people paid 48,000,000/. whilst the articles of consumption were so heavily taxed. Did the people discontinue consumption ? —(Hear, hear.) On the contrary, the more they were taxed the more they consumed.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) But the Right Hon. Baronet had told the House that he intended to pro duce more commercial reforms, as if the whole twenty-eight years past had not been one continued series of commercial reforms. What was the measure relating to Joint Stock Banks but a me. sure of commercial reform ? And, again, what were the measures which occupied the- 1 - louse for two consecutive Sea. TiE SUN, LONDON, THURSDAY MORNING', MARCH 24, 1842, sions in obstructing and impeding those binks bu commercial reforms ? What were all the interferences with the Navigation Laws but commercial reforms? What were the wars in India and in China but the consequences of commercial reforms ? (Hear.) A statesman, whose sagacity never was sur passed, laid it down as a maxim; that the moment we opened the trade with China, we should remove the foundations of our hod ien empire.—(Hear.) The Slight Hon. Baronet told the House that he expected a period of prosperity to follow the distress which now prevailed, and that he expected it from the experience of past alter nations of prosperity and distress. But he (Mr. A.) called on the Hon. Baronet to say Whether he expected the prosperity about to conic to be followed by another period of distress—such as that avWch had just been passed through ?—and If the prosperity was not to be permanent, was it not the first duty of Govet nment, and of her Majesty, to avoid accelerating the years of prosperity which were to be followed with a recurrence of disaster and distress, and the ruin of thousands, arid to consider in what way a remedy was to be applied to the present disordered state of society, from which those fluctuations were inseparobte. In his judg ment they were hound In honesty, and by every dictate of wisdom, to adopt one of two courses—either to maintain the present value of money and to rise equally the value of commodities is to Ire re duce tha standard of value that was the only alternative. He (Mr. A.) could not in this debate point out the means by which either side of the alteration was practicable ; but he would demonstrate to any committee, or to any select body net men, that Parliament had the power of preserving the value of money at one standard—(Cheers)—and that every measure which they adopted without reference to the prevention of prices from rising and fall. ing, bring the country into further difficulties. Mr. ROEBUCK thought that the Right lion. Baronet had not received the due meed of appiobation from friends or opponents which his conduct merited. —( Hear, hear, from the Tory benches.) He (Mr. Roebuck) was disappointed when he saw the Right Hon. Baronet opposed by those of his own rankp, who ought to have been foremost in his support, and when the opposition was joined in by those on the opposition side, who ought, in consistency with their former professions to have been still more ready with their support of the scheme.—(Hear, and laughter) The Right Hon. Baronet had proposed a measure which, at least to him (Mr. Roe.. buck), appeared plain, easy of comprehension, straightforward, and honest.—(Tory cheers, responded to by cheers and laughter from the Opposition.) It could deceive nobody. The House could un. derstand what it meant. The country could understand it. It meant that if you desire to raise the revenue the country should know distinctly and directly what they had to pay.—(Hear, hear.) The beople were not to be juggled and deceived into paying the sum of money which it was necessary to raise. That sum was stated in both sides to be necessary ; and for the raising of it there were be fore the House two distinct plans--the one to raise the money di rectly from the community—and the other to raise it indirectly by way of tax on comn - odities of general consumption. Although one was the plan of the Right Hon. Baronet, and the other that of the lute Government. Taking the plan of the Right Hon. Baronet as a whole, and looking it as one comprehensive scheme, he gave him the full meed of his approbation for his honest and sttaightforward eourse.—(Tory cheers.) The revenue was deficient, and neither on the Ministerial or on the Opposition s.de of the House, could any blame be attached to the Right Hon. Baronet for that deficiency. It was not occasioned by this side or by that-=by the Whig or by, the Tory-but by the House of Commons.—(Much cherringe They might talk of the wars in Syria, and the wars in China and in India; but the wars were as much the wars of the Ministerial as of the Op. position side of the House. They might talk of the increase of the 'expenditure ; but the fault was as much on one side as the oaten—(lcer.) They were all for spending and none for saving.— (Hear and laughter.) The whole fault was to he laid at the door of the House, and one side was as much tor blalnte as the other.— (Hear, hear.) But lie must tell the Right Hlin. Baronet that the whole ground of his approbation was that the people had been made to feel at whose door the blame was to be laid. Hitherto they (the House) had been tampering with the finances. But the Right Hon. Baronet came forward to say that he will not be a party to paltry artifices—(hear, hear)—that he wilt not going to resort to loans, or to taxes on posterity—he said to them plainly—" I will tax you."—(Laughter.) No one could say that the Right Hon. Baronet had exaggerated the deficiency, and no one had asked for any reduction of expenditure. The deficiency being admitted, the Right Honourable Baronet asked the country if it was prepared to adopt the prompt and immediate increase to meet the deticiency.—(ldear, hear.) He (Mr. Roebuck) thought that was by far the most honest course to meet the difficulty in the face, and to tell the people that the money is due, and that they must pay it. His Hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield said that the measure would drive capitalists out of the country.' His Noble Friend aspired to the character of a political economist, and he would ask his Noble Friend could it make tine least difference—if the people must pay the deficiency—whether it was made by a di- . rect tax, or by a round-about process ?—(Hear, hear.) But his Noble Friend went further, and said there was danger in letting the people know what they had to pay.—( Hear, and a laugh,) Why the Hon. Member for Sheffield was an advocate for the peo ple governing themselves—and was he now going to take the whole of their affairs into his own hands, and keep them in igno raise, of what money they paid, and how it was applied ?—(Hear.) Was that the course now to be pursued I' He believed that that course of proceeding would bring its own remedy. The Right Hon. Baronet had come to the conclusion, though he had been slow in corning to it, of asking them to pay by a direct taxation, and a direct taxation which would not be fair to the middle class of the community. Such was the effect of the tax according to the Hon. Member for Sheffield, and he agreed with the proposition ; he would even add one more item to its strength, which was, that it showed the disposition of the aristncratie class of this country in a more su iking and salient light than any other mode of taxation; and that was the reason he liked it.—(Hear, hear.) They taxed the community not for the benefit of the public, not for supplying the expenditure of the country, but fur the interests of the landowners. The Corn-laws put a large sum into the pockets of the landholders ; but then to supply the expenditure of the rate, they say what shall we do ? Why, we will meet it by a tax spread over land and funded property, and over what he could scarcely call income. What was the consequence ? Why, having first taken a large portian for themselves out of the pockets of the people, when they came to pay the portion of the tax to the State that fell upon them, they in fact paid nothing at all.—(Cries of " Oh, Oh.") That was his first charge against the aristocracy of this 'country. W hat did they do ? The Right Honourable Baronet, he believed, had done the best thing he could do ; he had done far better than those on this side of the House had I proposed to do ;he was prepared to accept the plan—to admire it— to receive it; he could tlo no otherwise. Put what did the aris tocracy do ? They said, we must be careful in our generation; we cannot tax the people exclusively; we will tax ourselves, and there. by have the appearance of great moderation and regard to the work ing classes. This was an exceedingly happy stroke of party politics, for by it they robbed the Liberal party of all the power that might be derived from the prevalence of discontent among the poor. They had got the middle classes in their power, and they said, let us tax the Finnilholder. Why this had been done in old times, it had been done in France on the same actual principle, though differing in degree. There the landowner was relieved from any portion of the expense of ' the Government, and it was cast entirely on the monied and in. tellectual resources of the country. When they came to look at it fairly and honestly, they would find that the land was exempted from any portion of this tax...—(Cries of " Oh, oh," and laugh ter.) They tnight laugh if they liked, but it was the fact. But to pass on. What was done by the plan ? They taxed the fundholder, and then they came down to what, he must say, was the depth of injustice committed by this tax. That injustice was committted themselves. He thought that the Hon. Baronet felt that injustice himself, and was only prevented from repairing it by the jealousy of the landed interest. The injustice of the thin had been put in twenty thousand shapes; the injustice was so flagrant, and it was impossible to increase the enormity of the picture. The man making tSOO/. a-year by the hard toil of his body and mind, that man paid as much as him, who though living its mere idleness, saw his means increase, and received his income . of 300/. though doing nothing. Of one man, his very existence, and thitt of his family depended on the merest accident; by any unfor tunate occurrence affecting his health or his intellect his means of gaining bread for his family were gone ; he was dead while he lived, robbed of the power of his intellect, robbed of the power of his body, and the consequence is, that his children must starve. But let the other man die, no such consequence fol lowed. Why, the difference was perceptible—palpable. if the Right Hon. Baronet told him that he could not snake the distinc tion, he would tell him, that he must make it.—(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Baronet knew, as well as he did, that thedifierence was perceptible, and appreciable in the market; he knew that he could .go into the market stud tell it. He could take one man of 3001. a-year in funded property, and 3001. a-year derived from intellectual ex. ertion, and the difference between those two men was the difference between the value of their respective lives and perpetuity. He could go into the market, and ask what would be the charge for insuring his life to the amount of the principal that would return 3001. a-year, and any insurance office would tell him that charge. If the Right Hon. Baronet then would proceed fairly he must strike olf that amount from the man of limited income, and tax him un the remainder, and he would then have a plan perfectly fair and just. Why could not that be done? Why could not a table he made of the value of different lives, from 9.0, 30, 40, to 50 years. A young man paid less to an insurancesollice, because the value of his life was greater ; he would, therefore, conifer more on the state. The value was the exact run of time difference between two teen's lives against perpetuity; such tables were in the possession of Government, and the necessary rules might be laid down' in half an hour. If it was not adopted then,a gratuitous injustice would be done by the landed interest to all the other classes of the community. He should like to hear that answered; he wanted the people of this country to be told why it could not be done. They wanted somebody here bold enough to declare the injustice of the tax, and astute enough to prove that it was not an injustice to tax equally the man of unequal means arid 'immanent property, fOr by this plan they prevented that care and precaution which enabled men to secure to their families those provident resources which should supply them with the. means of living hereafter. He admitted that it would be a cruel injustice to the people of this country, if it should be carried, no matter how" grave might be the neces. sity. II there was a grave necessity for taxing the people, did the gravity of the necessity excuse tee unjust means of meeting it?— (Hear, hear.) Does robbing me do the community a benefit?— (Hear, hear.) If there was a necessity of levying this ruin, let Mein cut it off him, and lay it on those who could afford to pay it. He would furnish what he could, and the poor man would furnish what he could.—(Hear, hear.) The reason they taxed him was because he did not possess land; for if he possessed land, they would not dare to tax hrn.— (Oh, oh.) The people of the country had a right to know and understand that this was the real case. lie did not lay the blame to the door of the Right Hon. Baronet ; he begged to reiterate that he laid the charge of jujus lice upon the majority of that House—a majority which the Right Hon. Baronet could not contrl, and who were bringing into Olsen daylight, so that he who ran might read, the injustice of the scheme to the people of this country. Pursuing this subject, he asked the Right Hon. Baronet to answer him and explain why it was difficult to make the calculations of the value of the uncertain incomes he had spoken of; he did nut ask lire value of every man's means, because the Right Hon. Baronet must know that, oven under his own syss tern he got but a rough, thongh practical estimate of eaeh,nian's wealih, but he 'wanted the same thing in another shape. He wanted a practical estimate of each man's power of paying . --taking the value of his life, and the value of his net income, and striking off from that the amount necessary to insure his life to the atnount necessary to produce his income. That was a fair way of estimating it, without reference to the individual's health is strength. If they made the tax equal to all, this would be fair and just ; if they wanted more money, increase the tax ; if they reqnired fifty millions, or whatever the sum might be, if they could not levy it in any other way whatever, let them add more to the per ceneage of tire tax ; let them add the penny or twoyence, but still keep up the difference between the two classes of income; then they would fairly tax the community, and have the money they required.. It had been urged as an objections to the proposal of 'tire Right Honouaable Baronet, that it was a " vulgar pi a ' k ee A vulgar plan! He wished there was more of such vul. garity, at least as to statesmanship. He could not see any vulgarity i n endeavouring to pay their debts. If they were honest in private life, would make their expenditure equ a l t o th e i r i ncome; if siie they dishonest, they would go on day by day making their expenditure larger than their income, but they would clime at length to the natural ; there would be a stand still, a bank ' ruptcy, or, if there was no actual bankruptcy for amp one but the trader, yet there was a bankruptcy of hunouf and honesty, and they were ruined. And what was honesty in !private life might be extended also to nations. )Loud cheers.) He could . not conce ive in what sense i t could be thought vulgar to ivu i ga more tiut formidable i war p a y their debts. — (Cheers.) .But there was another obj ec ti on made, which ey mwiasghtst.taetewd!lltiongbte. meetof a its far vulgarity, b said a't that the tax was an inquisitorial one, and that there would be great danger to the commercial interests if the exact amount of whet each man made was ascertain d. That always seemed to him a matter beyond his comprehension. He knew that in this country there was a great dill ke to let it be known how much each ma , wa s wor h. He thought this teaser vulgar prejudice—(War, het what ; he if called tie y vulgarity.were Mich there were plenty w h o If they were poor let them honestly say wou ld find it out. — (Laughter.) He could not underst a nd by w h a t p ro cess it could be that what was called credit increa se d th e zr)thatwas s o resources of the country,—(Hear.) A man wi h credit might have a great deal of trad e, b ut i t was maintained at another man 's expense.—(Hear, hear.) Credit did not multiply wealth, it only enabled one man to work with the wealth of another man, and t was honest and proper th e other believed he could give it, but if by any side wind, a man pretended to be rieh, it was dishonest, i and it was no benefit to morality or society. He should not care a farthing if the amount of his means was known to-morrow, nor should he think himself the worse in any man's opi. nian for its being known that his gains were loss.—(Hear.) The Hon. Member for Lambeth said he should like to know how a banker would like to have his income told P Now, this was the very class of persons who should have the least objection, for on the last day of the year a banker knew exactly how much he had made during the twelve months, and he (Mr. it.; did not see why a banker should be ashamed, or afraid, or consider it inconsistent with his character as a good man, that people, who supposed that he was making 10,0001- a year should find out that he made but s,oool.—(Cheers.) But if such exposures were to be dreaded as too inquisitorial, he wautct ask the Right Hon. Baronet was it not easy to hit upon some other mode of making a pretty accurate esti mate of the incomes of persons; whether as regarded the past year, or a long series of years preceding ?—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. IL) thought it would not be difficult to suggest the other tests. For instance, the income of a man might be tolerably well estimated I,y kdowing what rent lie paid for his lodging, or, at least, it might be calculated how much he ought to pay to the State.—(Laughtes, and Hear, hear, hear.) No doubt this test would be as much objected g other Cuhiirayn bc it tl taxation—withoutts Chancellor u e olfd part i es ;btie ie a but mpEri i lsey .1, icewnolunuaegptree:vt, to usurp danger te t e i i( e uilubrrpy. tthßhe. functions u o i e l in d , a ce s t ta l i t i o n t ft i n u c s c o l l i f i l toayfsdoiatif the inquiry t i Roebuck) would, when the Will. came on for consideration, undertake to prove that great benefit would result to the revenue, and the cominut.ity by a different adjustment of the duties on Um. ber. He would show that it was not for the interests of the colonies or for the interests of the Canadian people, that that tax shou Id be continued as it was ; but that it merely contributed to fill the pockets of a small body in ails country, who owned rotten ships : that the interest of that class was very much overrated, and, in short, speaking what he knew from having had the honour to be the delegate of the Canadian people, they wished that the perma. neat protection on timber shovld. be abolished, as of no benefit either to them or to the mother country. His plan would be diff,rent hem that of the Right Hon. Baronet. He (Mr. R.) would lower the duty on Baltic timher one half, and raise it as much on Canadian. The difference now between the two was 455. This step would produce a /air revenue, would do injustice to no one, and wyuld give the community better cheaper timber. As respected the importation of sugar, the tariff of the Hight Hon. Baronet appeared to him quite untenable. lie was sorry to see that the Right Hon. Baronet should be deterred by that talk about slavery which was the bug-bear of .this country, when ang good was to be done. Great mischief had been done alreody bytheinterferance that had taken place in this matter; for even according to the ad mission of those who had been most active, and had gained most glory by their efforts in the cause, they had effected no good what. ever. Instead of mitigating the evil they would allow they had ag. gravated it; and now, when the people of England asked for some relief, you say they cannot have it on.account Of the slave trade. But why now add to the mischief; when it was unquestionable that we could not prevent th e s l ave tra de ?—( H oar, hear.) With those .remarks he would now close his obServations with' what he should :Call the moral of his tale. The Gentlemen on'lii:S side of the House had made two attempts during the present SessiMiteviiti for them. selves popularity.—( Laughter.) First, by theli opposition to the Corn-law they had got up the steam`, but they failett.-.--(Laughter, and great cheering from the Ministerial Benches.) They failed, because the working people had no confidence in ;hex--(Cheers from the Ministerialists)—p ossess i ng power granted to them by t h e people, the middle classe s arrayed themselves agaitist the people when they asked for their rights. But when' the 'Middle classes wanted to get rid of a burthen phi ce d on t f iernsel r es, the peop l e stood aloof, seeing hoW the promi s es' made them in 1631 and 1632 were forgotten ; and thus - the' first attempt of the Gentlemen near him at popularity hunting had grievously failed.—(Cheers.) Now they • Made' their second attempt, but the people clearly understoed'ithentanti being re lieved by the artifice of the other side, and‘l!y the political saga. city of the Right Hon. Baronet. If they Were ; nof jwrsonally in terested, and seeing that little regard had beeh"had ror their pro perty, their labour, by the middle classes, they . :Weolcflx!iok at the at tack now made on the property of the middle classes With equani mity. They said they would not trust the working 'man with power, because they would attack property. The working classes, remembering how their property, the labour of their hands and their heads, had been disreg3tded, would not now interfere on the funded and personal property of the middle classes. It was all the better that the working classes should hear, from time to time, that the middle classes alone were not able to cope with the other side of the House. There were ritJans, however, by which the middle classes could lint them down. Therliad put them down before—try again. Let the middle classes tell the people we have found out our mistake. We find we cannot obtain justice for our selves unless we obtain justice for you._:(Hear.) Now we wil agree to do you justice, mai then we will obtain justice fur all—and this was the moral of his tale. • Sir R. PEEL—Sir, after the comments that have been made in the course of this debate on the proposal I: have made for relieving the country from its firsaheiel difficulties, I must, very naturally, feel some anxiety to reply to some of the observations which have been directed against my propositions..—(Hear, hears)" And I must first remark on the objections taken to the course I have pursued by the Hon. Member for Liskcard. I was told, in the couese of this night, by him, that having no confidence in the abstract merits of the measure I brought frrward, and being unable to support it by arguments, I resorted to topics calculated to excite party feelings, and that I was desirous to derive that aid from party excitement which I could not hope to draw from reason and argument.—(Hear, hear,) Sir, I refer for my vindication against that charge to all those who heard me make my financial statement.—(Cheers from the Minis. terialists.) 1 ask whether, when I steted to the House the causes of the present difficulties, and proposed my remedy for them—whether it was possible that any man could have more studiously avoided all topics of an irritating nature ?—(Cheers.) It was necessary for me to refer, amongst other causes of expense, to the war in China, and to the war to the West of the Indus ; but in referring to those causes of increased expense, did I not studiously abstain from every political subject which could be considered likely to provoke a dis cussion of a party nature ?—(Cheers.) But, Sir e when on a follow ing night 1 vindicated the course I had pursued, I was placed in a different position. On the first night I was told my proposal should be considered as a whole, that there was an admission of great financial embarrassment—that it should be discussed without any party feeling, but entirely on its abstract merits ; and now I appeal to those who recollect the second night's debate, whether any plea- sure coved have been discussed with mere party spirit?—(Cheers.) Not that I complaiu of this, on the contrary, I foresaw It. But when I came to vindicate my measure so opposed, was it not natural, that I should remind those who attacked my measure, that they and their policy had been the chief causes of the present difficulties ?—(Great cheering.) I must say now—not wishing to speak in a temper different from that in which I began, that a speech of greater bitterness I neyer heard than that front the late Chancellor of the Exchequer.—(Cheers and counter cheers.) Why, Sir, was it not said that I.maintained the sugar duties, not because I wets convinced of ite'policy of maintaining them, but because they would help tne to annoy my predecessors ? Was it not said that I would not prefer any measure that would effect my own political interest and position? Was it not said that the tax against which not one word wes said when I first pro posed it, but which I had an assurance should be calmly and deli. betrately considered—was it trot said by the Noble Lerd and the Right Hon. Gentleman, th a t after having given the subject the most mature attention, th ey could come to no other con. elusion, but that a mere unjust inquisitorial and oppres sive measure was never proposed ?— , (Hear, hear, and cheers.) I must say that I hod spcsere on that night rather under the im. pression, not that my measure had not endergone the considera. tion which I was promised it should do by philosophers in the closet, but, I thought that the spirit which actuated the opposition to it, partook much more of the character of a meeting at the" Re form Club—(Loud cheers on the Ministerial benches)—and, there. fore, after the assurances which I had received, after the manlier in which I had opened the suejects and after the manner in which I and the measure were subseque nt l y assailed, t h en , i n d ee d, I slid that which I always shall do, I v i n di cate e to t h e b es t o f my power the measure which I had proposed, and the motives which had in. fluenced me in submitting it to the consideration of the House. • I certainly was serprised that the proposal of an eiscome tax should be now. denounced by the leaders of the party oppo. site, without any reference to the public exigencies or the . difficulties of our position. I was surprised to have it denounced as au Odious and unjust measure, which no Minister ought to propose, because I recollect perfectly well that among those which have been connected wills the party opposite, and whose attention has been directed chiefly to matters of finance. I have heard their declarations, and their opinions are left on re- Cord, that looking at the nature of our taxation, and seeing its tendency to press upon labour, and upon those articles which, form the necessary, consumption of the great masses of the• people—l have heard them declare that a property tax might be resorted to with advantage during time of peace. I have heard Lord Atthorp give that opinion, and Sir Henrp Parnell'has left on tecord a similar opinion, formed at a time when the country %vat 'Placed in no such financial difficulties as at present; .and formed for the sole purpose of relieving the main articles or s consuriilptiodand the pro ductive industry of the countey from the eilstihrandbuilt of texation Mr. Pewlett Thompson, Lord Althorp . , - Mr. Hume, and Sir Henry Parnell, all declared in favour of a , peoperty taxesind therefore a property tax ought not to be depoutteed" by yoe, acting as philo sophers, and not as party - men. The principle of a property tax ought not to be denounced with quite so much of bitterness as has been displayed upon the subject.—(Hear, hear.) But lam told that I have not estahlished any efficient 'necessity for a property tax. I wish to pass in review the objections which have been urged against the measure which I have introduced. I have been told that I have established no suffieient necessity for imposing a property tax its time cf peace. I fairly everrehat in now making an appeal, not so much to the Gentlemed cipeesife as to the de. liberate judgment of tee'cotintry, upon *litchi' rely fbr eupport-H. (Cries of " Hear, heir.") sir ask all"thoses4bo are capable of forming a just judgment' tiponiadreethenclid difficultfee s and of the inevitable colisequeneei l . which' must fp'fow if during a time Of peace you perthit these diffieulties to increase. without attempting to cheek 'the progiess. • I ask of them ma. turely to consider whether 1 do not establish such a finan cial necessity, calling at least for some vigorous mid decisive course.—(Hear.) I prove that there has been a deficit during the last six years, which has gone on rapidly increasing for the last four years. I have shown that in the Year ending sth April, 1840, there had been a deficit of income as compared with ex. 1,851,000; in 1842 amounted to 2,334,000 /. ; and in 1843 it will amount to 2,573,0001. I have p rove d that during the last sly penditure, of 1,487,0001. ; in 1841 the''deficit amounted to years you have accumelated a. debt amounting to 0,000,0001. have shown that there will be a deficiency in the estimates of the the y e ar by 1836, you began a large deficit. with aeg present year, which I take at 2,5000,0001 .. It cannot, 1 believe, be less, after you shall hav e p assed the estimates for rein. forcing our troops in India, and after defraying the expenses of the Chinese expedition cling th e approaching year. Why, that alone seems to r oe to m establish th e necessity of placing your finances upon a new basis . I ask y ou, _ too, th e state of Indian finance. I have told you tha t Indian fi nances have f o ll owe d the c You found in 1836 a surpl us of at least 1,500,0001 ,; you ended in 1840 with a deficit of 2,300;000e ; and in 'lB 4l you had a deficit ocoursers large of r the e surplus;finances in at t bey home.e 184 of 2,400,000/. He had said th at the Indian G overnment was resort. ing to loans ; they had at first tried a bo ats of 4 per cent, ; they have since resorted to a loan of '1,000,900 l at 5 per ce n t . He told them that under those circumstanc es they mi g ht find it necessary to come a l4 l you ended y to the support of the credit of India. I thought it wise you should abstain from incurring' any additional debt, and that you should maintain the public credit as you have maintained it, by showing your determination to raise a supply adequate to your expenditure. These were the proofs *tech he gave for the purpose of showing that there existed finacial necessities—necessities which should not deter us or dismay us; amid if l'had not a full confidence - in the re sources of this country, I must have shrunk from developing the ' truth, but it was because I knew that the country 'would have the manliness and the energy to meet its difficulties that I would not condescend to conceal a knowledge of • these difficulties from the public.—(Hear, hear.) I must here observe that I take no de. sponding view of our affairs in India, I have just the same con fidence as ever that the energ? of the British people that has been already so gloriously displayed in that great field of exertion—l cannot but think that those energies when properly exerted, will enable us to repair any caaual and t em p orary disasters which' we . may suffered .—( Hear,, hear.) But I must say I think the Honouralee Gentleman the Member' for Lambeth (Mr. Hawes) was rather too hasty in refusing to adopt any measure to which it may be found necessary to have recourse for the pur pose of repairing those disasters. " Not one shilling of this in. n lema, come tax," arid thr Hon. Gen. " with my consent shall be applied to the war in Affehanistan." Noir 1 s h ell not enter into discussion of the Indian policy ; but I think the House will sus. pend its judgment upon that subject until they have full informa tion with regard to it laid Ltrae them. I shall not offer any opinion as to the policy welch we mese ), ultimately find it necessary to pre; eery, in India; but' I trust the House will suspend its judgment as to the course which' it may adqpt if it should be found that British lives had been sacrificed in consequence of grass Perfidy, and a vio- lation of the laws of nations. The Hon. Member for Lambeth g Mr. ROEBUCK—Certainly. ti has said that the Affehans are engaged in a war for their inde. i Sir R. PEEL proceeded—A clergyman has a certain income, and pendence ; and he added that he would hold me responsible for the ' he holds it only for his life; am Ito calculate, then, in this case, 1 war in Affghanistan ; but I musi say that when I first heard of the the balance of his life interest ? If I thus deal with all cases of war across the Indus, I expressed great doubt as to its policy. this kind I must take away entirely Schedule A. I did not forget the language used by a Gallant Officer, who has ' Again, take the case of two brothers, each having 5,0001., fallen a victim to his zeal in the public service—l mean Sir Alex- one vests his sum in the funds, and receives 21 per cent. ander Burnes, who said that the attempt to restore Shah Soojah to for his mouey ; the other purchases a living and insures his the throne from which.he was expelled in 1800, would be a mea- life. Shall I make a deduction in the case of the one so as to ren. sure in which failure might be attended with the worst couse. tier his position similar to that of the other ? I have put all those quences. I said at the time that the attempt to restore Shah cases to show that if lam to act on the principle of making such . Soojah to the throne of Aftghanistan would very much resemble the valuations and allowances, I had better abandon the tax altogether. policy of attempting to force Charles X. upon the throne of France- 1 say again, that this income tax is a necessary measure in time It appeared that the character of Shah Soojah was held in the of war, and when great exertions are to be made, greatest contempt by those who were called upon to submit to his looking at the necessity that may arise of imposing a tax of 10 per rule. I must disclaim most decidedly, for myself and those with cent., and if the pressure be great of imposing even a greater amount whom I act, all responsibility for the expedition beyond the Indus ; than 10 per cent, rather than have recourse to the system of bor. but I shall, nevertheless, take such means as British rowing money and funding; that it would he better to have no income honour and British interests may require in India, tax at ail than to establish such a state of things as would necessarily with as much alacrity, and as riilach good faith and earnestness as arise from the operation of the principle advocated 'on the other if I had been a party to the original movement in Affghanistan. side. If I have to take the case of an annuitant, and grant her an But to return to our financial condition, I find a deficit in this exemption, then I must abandon the principle upon which country which has amounted within the last six years to the tax is founded, namely, that every man 10,000,000/. ; while there has been a deficit i n I n di a to the should conti ibate a certain sum according to his means.amount of nearly 5,000,0001., for the last two years alone. Ido I hope that I have sufficiently stated the grounds upon whi c h I are submit to the deliberate judgment of this House. and of those who of opinion that, if we did resort to a tax upon income, we ought to have sent us here, whether, under those circumstances, it is not . call upon all incomes to contribute equally with those abatements incumbent on-ats to make some great exertion for the purpose of and reductions only, which were specified in the Act, and that Irescuing ourselves from such a tenalitien. I think it would be nothing could be more unwise than to attempt to change the income mere delusion to suppose that our diffieulties would be removed by tax into a tax upon capital or property. With respect to the any ordinars means. Ido not say that you should impose an details I have not the sliglgest objection to give my attentive con. income tax because there was :a war in Affghanistan, and a war sideration to any moditications*hich may be suggested, but with in China, but I tell you to review the whole of your respect to the main principle of the proposal—namely, the levying financial position, and I think you will find that thos two of a duty of 7d. per pound upon income—that is the proposal which causes, concurrently with others, call for some great I have made to the House, add that is the proposal which I mean to exertion on your p ar t s , of som e kind or another, urge as far as I can upon their acceptance, clearly foreseeing the I have been told that the adaption of the Budget prepared by the consequences of abatements and exemptions of such a nature as late Ministry would h ave ena bl e d us t eem ed our financial difficul- .those which had been urged by Hon. Gentlemen opposite.._ ties ; but I entirely dissent from' that opinion. The last Chan. lam told that another great objection to this tax is, that it en. cellor of the Exchequer contemplated an increase in the sugar duty couraged perjury and fraud. Now, as such is stated to of 7,00,00e1., in consequence of the admission of foreign sugar, but be the effect of direct taxation. I should like to know what is the that increase has been realized as nearly as possible without effect- effect of indirect taxation.—(Hear, hear.) I should like to know ing any change in the duty which existed at the time. With re. what is the tendency of the Excise duties, and of all the regulations spect to the duly on corn it is difficult to form an estimate of what with respect to distilleries.—(Hear, hear.) Taxation of some kind the duty on it tnay produce. The Noble Lord calculated that the or other is inevitable'. I quite agree with the Hon. and Learned same number of quarters would be introduced under Gentleman that nothing can be more frivolous or more absurd than his duty as under th e ( wile o f one s hilling ; but I cannot extreme sensitivencs as to what people are worth. I believe there see how he could assume that-would be the case. With is generally a very good estimate fortned amongst those who care respect to timber, I admit that the duty proposed by the party about other people's property, or the state of their credit.—(Hear, opposite would produce a latter amount of revenue than mine. hear.) There is a keen instinctive sense of what a man is worth ; that proposition was to reduce the duty on foreign timber by 55., either his looks, or his gestures, or something or other, appear to and to continue the discriminating duties between Canadian and betray it to others.—(Laughter.) And, with respect to this terrible foreign timber, that in placing a duty of 20s. on Canadian timber, inquisition into men's affairs, and the disclosures which must and 50s. on foreign timber. I admit that would realise more titan follow, Ido really believe that if a man is disposed to make a bona my plan could do, but this I contend for; that if you can afford it tide return of his income to the office, there would be no such tre. there is no single article in the whole range of custom articles, in mendous consequences as some Hon. Gentlemen have seemed to which a reduction of duty will tell with a greater effect in encourag. imagine. If there be a disposition to practise fraud and perjury ing the industry of the country, than the reduction in Canadian for the sake ofsaving 3/. or 4!., there may be some difficulty, but I timber.—(Hear, hear.) I must express my surprise at hearing the have too high an opinion of the people of this country to suppose that duty attacked so much by the Honourable gentleman opposite. a tax of 21. 18s. 4d. in the 1001. would supply this temptation to Hon. Gentlemen opposite had the greatest respect for the audio- perjury. But as I have already said, whatever may be tne inconve. rity of Mr. Deacon Hume, but what was his opinion ? He says, niences of direct taxation, depend upon it you cannot resort to in. "If the country can afford to give up the whole amount of the direct taxation, without, as it appears to me, affording, at least in an limber duties, there is no other article to which it should give a equal degree, a temptation to perjury and fraud.—(Hear, hear.) freer importation than that of wood. We possess iron and coal, Sir, as I have before stated, Ido not merely propose the income tax but we' have not wood, and if they could get that article our case for thepurpose of meeting tho deficiency in the public revenue. would be complete." The ancient policy of the co untry was to en- Concurrently with meeting that deficiency I propose to make ex courage the importation of Wood, and up to the year 1795 the tensive alterations in the tariff. Sir, there has been a dig. whole amount of duty was only 6s. Sri. Considering wood to be a position entirely to underate and undervalue the changes raw material, and that it entered largely into all manufactures, the which I propose to make, a di spos i t i on in which I must duty was low for the benefit of the consumers, and it was cot made say that the Honourable Member for Bolton (Dr. Bowring) an article of revenue until theltottest - feria' of the war in 1705. does not participate; for he, who probably knows as much as any The proposal which I make with respect to the duty on woos, man on the subject, says he cannot deny that the alterations which is infinitely more favourable tit the consumer than that which I protease in the tariff, are very extensive and most important.— was made by the Right Hon.' Gentleman opposite, and this I (Hear, hear.) He says I omit two most important articles, namely, Must repeat, that if I could get a tax on property to the corn and sugar, and he blames me for that omission ; but with amount of 600,0001. or 700,0001, and could thereby relieve the respect generally to the changes which I propose in the tariff, the Consumer &dm the weight of the tax on timber, I believe would do Hon. Member thinks they will tend to encourage industry, enter more to encourage industry and to restore trade and manufac. prise, and commerce, and therefore hears his valuable testimony in tures, and to benefit generally all classes of society, than by adopt. their favour.—(Hear, hear.) Now, what were those changes ? In Mg any ohter means.—(Hear, hear.) I wish lion. Gentlemen the first place, I will notice the removal of the prohibitory duties. would read tha evidence given on the subject. They would find On this subject an Hon. Gentleman makes a singular charge against in the Report of the Timber Committee of 1535, and in the Re. me. He says, though I remove the prohibition upon the importa. port of the Import . Duties Committee of 1840, the most satisfactory . Lion of foreign cattle, I do nothing, for that the cattle are not yet evidense that our fisheries were subject to great disadvantage on ac. born.—(Laughter.) I remove the prohibition upon the importa. count of the timber duties. He wished they would read the evidence tion of foreign cattle, and I permit salt and fresh beef to of Mr. Mitchell - on the subject, and also as to the effect which come in at a small duty; but it is saltil, that the first they had on the ship building interest, where it was com- of these changes will confer no benefit at present, because pletely proved to the House that the shipbuilding was withdrawn the calves are not yet born. lam afraid that I cannot provide for on account of the timber duties.—(Hear, hear.) And though I that difficulty,—(Laughter.) Some apprehensions have been en. cannot compare my plan with that of the Right Hon. Gentleman teitained as to the effect of the removal of the prohibition upon the opposite, as a means of raising a revenue, yet so tar as the benefit of importation Isf fresh meat. I think there is no ground far appre. the consumer is concerned, the reduction of the duty on colonial hension. The effect will, undoubtedly be, to cheapen provisions ; timber to a nominal amount, and on Baltic timber from 555. to 30s. but I think those in England and Scotland who entertain appre appears to ms one of the most advantageous measures which it is 'tensions on this subject greatly overrate the danger to the ;eh, possible to adopt, not in a financial point of view, but as far as the interests of the consumer. are - concerned.—(Hear, hear.) It is said I am presenting 711 — gToomy view of the finances of the country, and that I have said there was no other mode of raising the revenue than hrving recourse to an income tax. I said no such thing. lam certain there are other menus. I think if I were to reimpose some of the 20 millions of taxes which were remitted altar the war, 'should be able to procure a revenue,but I do not think I should, by increasing the taxes on commodities subject to the present excise and customs. The Right lion. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Baring) when speaking of the five per cent. which he imposed, thought he was very triumphant on the omission of duties or. corn, but he did not take any credit fur the duties on sugar, deducting the duty on corn, and sugar the sum, which hod been received in 1840, was 17,532,0001. ; the sum which was received in 1842 with a 5 per cent. addition, was 17,960,000/. but Age. aernsk. _ of per.uitting the importation of fresh meat into this country.-- (Hear, hear.) With respect to timber, the proposed duties will be almost nominal. Foreign ornamental wood I have reduced to the lowest price. At present we labour under a great disadvantage in competing with foreigners in the manufacture of furniture; of the ett...ct of the alteration—fir to remove that disadvantage— will not that be a benefit.--( Hear, hear.) I have reduced the duty on every kind of foreign wood except rosewood, and I have ny doubt when we have concludtxl a treaty with Brazil, that will be added to the rest. But I am told that we ought to proceed upon the principle of remitting the duty on every article of foreign pro duction, entirely regardless of whst foreign countries may do in return. Now abstractedly I am not prepared to deny that that would be good policy.—(Hear, hear.) I am not prepared to deny that to buy at the best market, without reference to others, would, in the abstract, be good policy. But a t' t h e same t i me it cannot be it ought to have been, if the 5 per cent. adpition had realised the Hon. Gentleman's expectations, I 8,409,000 L and from that I in _ denied, on the other hand, that it would be a great advantage to us if vie could induce foreign countries.to make a correspond.. fer that with respect to articles of the discrlption on which the additional 5 per cent: was imposed, we have arrived at the limit of taxation, and thit it would not, he wise to lay any additional taxes upon them. But if I go back to other articles in respect of which taxation has been removed, I shall have no doubt I shall be able to raise a revenue, and perhaps carry with me the assent of the majority of the House of Commons, but I thought that more just towards the great body of the people. to resort to a property tax.—(Cheers.) I might take leather, and I have no doubt by imposing a tax on it. I would derive a cunsi. derable revenue. 1 might also derive a very large revenue from salt, and also from a tax on beer—but I say it is mote just aad po litic to meet the difficulties in which we are placed by imposing as income tax, than by removing those indirect taxes, which cannot be imposed without creating thegreatest pressureon industry, without ing trade and manufactures into which those articles have largely entered on their repeal, to expose myself to the objection that I laid a tax on articles of consumption, which would be so much felt by the labouring classes of the country—(Cheers)--and it is on that account that I prose a property.tax.—(Hear, hear.) Sir, there are other objections to my plan which have been chiefly urged by the lion. Member for L;skeard, and the first was that which had been commented on by the Hon. and Learned Gentle. man, that there is a great objection to direct taxation, because it diminished the fund out of which the labourer was paid. But if I impose a salt tax would it not have accted as sensibly on the funds of the working man ? I confess I was greatly surprised at hearing it urged that there 'was a fatal objection to the tax. — (Hear, hear.) You cannot adopt any measure more likely to keep up public credit than by showing a determination to raise the sup plies with the yearly direct taxation, and I cannot say, for .anything I have seen, t h at 'there is any great indication of the public funds being affected. The next objection tax we were driving capitali s t s which he put was, that byaninccerie from the country; and tharft:would have a great tendency to pro mote that effect. But though lee went abroad, what was to pre vent him from paying the tax, as the landlord paid it ?—(Cheers.) The direct taxation will subject him to a contribution of the ex. penditure. From that he could not extricate himself whether he had property in land or in the funds. The benefit of direct taxa tion is that for whatever object lie goes abroad, he will not be able to relieve himself from contributing to the revenue of the country, and he will be compelled to, pay his fair share. But I believe the plan which I propose will have the effect of reducing the cost of living in this country. I 'expect that will be the result of the reduction - I propose in the tariff. If the cheapness of living abroad induce parties to leave the country I believe that the cost of living at home being rednccd by the duty on those articles which enter into manufactures, being lessened and the prohibitroy duties on articles of provision being lowered so far from an income tax having a tendency to drain cap ital out of the country, the general effect of the measure will be to invite its return and to insure its stay.—(Cheers.) The Hon. Gentleman says that he has compared the legacy dutiee and person. al poperty for the last three years with the duty paid in 1816, and ing reduction.—(Hear, hear., hear) I have no doubt that it would be a great advantage to France, to remit the duty upon brandy. I belly° also that it would be a great advantage to both countries if France were to admit the manufactures of Sheffield. I do not see why we should at once resign every advantage, by im mediately remitting our duties. I trust that Portugal, Brazil, Spain, and other countries would see the advantage to be derived from a reciproeal reduction of duties. That that reduction ought to be made on the part of foreign countries, as well as on our own, cannot be denied, and it is upon that ground that I object to a precipitate reduction of duty here without claiming, as - an equi valent, a corresponding reduction in - foreign countries.—(Hear.) You undertake to say that the reductions I make in the tariff are not calculated to diminish the cost of living or to increase our manufactures. Now, look to the reductions which I propose in the duties on oils—look to- the reuctions which I propose in the duties on dye stuffs, PII rosins—all articles osed to a considerable extent in manufactures.—(Cheers.) Look, again, at the articles of skins and fura.-..(Cileers.) I have greatly lessened the amount of duty levied on many articles, the manufacture of foreign countries. Now, what will be the effect of that ? The present duty sounds like a prohibition, but it is not so in fact. The smuggler takes care to ensure you a supply of the article, in spite of your prohibitory duties.—(Laud opposition cheers.) What, then, is the use of retaining a duty Of 40 per cent, when the smuggler will ensure you a supply at a cost of 10 per cent. on the value as a repayment for the risk he runs. The article is not the less brought into consumption, but the profit goes into the pocket of the smuggler. Now, by the reductions which I propose, I shall enable the merchant to know precisely what he has to contend with, and relieve him from that uncertainty in making his calculations under which he must neces. sarily labour in consequence of bang dependent upon the smug gler.—(Cheers.) There is the article of gloves, for instance. It is impossible to prevent the importation of them. The smuggler will take care that there shall be a sufficent supply. Now I have remitted a large portion of the , duty on foreign manufactured leather, and that, in my opinion, will be of great advantage to the consumer.—(Cheers.) But it has been said that, on the whole, the reductions which I have proposed in the tariff will tend to in crease the consumption—will tend to cheapen time necessaries of life. When the Hon. Gentleman denied that there would be any advan tage in the proposed alterations in the tariff, in cheapening the cost of living, an Hon. Friend near me whispered to me, that he was a member of a Board of Guardians—that he had just returned from attending the Board, and that they had entered into a contract for furnishing the Union with provisions next year, which contract was 20 per cent. lower than it had been last year.—(Ministerial cheers.) Now from that it appears that you will obtain a reduction in the poor-rates; not in consequence of any encroachment on the comforts of the poor---not-in consequence of any diminution in the amount paid fur the solace of the deserving poor—but in conse quence of the great reduction in the articles of consumption, by which the cost of living is so much lessened, that you arc enabled to maintain your house at much less cost than formerly.—(Cheers.) be says that he has found an immense increase in it. Why, that now come to consider the reductions proposed in articles of colo- argument is rather in favour of the tax. Toe teturns on the sub. ject show that there is - a tendency to accumulation'. That is a circumstance that operates in favour of my measure that property ought to baar the increased burdens nial produce. Thellon. Gentleman says that in passing this mea. sure I refuse altogether to listen to any argument, but that I rely solely upon a majority to support me in carrying whatever measures ' may propose. Now if I felt sure of possessing that majority I car of the state and not articles of consumption. The Hon. Gentle man, as well as the Hon. Member for Liskeard (Mr. C. Buller) addrrssed himself to what they considered the gross injustice of this tax. They are quite content to have a tax on property, but object to a iax income—that is to a tax derived from the incomes of pro. fessions and of trades. Mr. ROEBUCK made an observation across the table, which was not audible id the gallery. Sir It. PEEL went on to say, the Hon. Gentleman then does not object to the inquisitorial nature of the machinery by which this tax must be levied. He is certainly singular in that opinion among the Gentlemen who ,spoke from the opposito side of the House on this subject. They said that the tax upon incomes de rived from trade and professsions was objectionable not on ac. count of the amount to be raised, but on account of the inquisitorial nature of its machinery, Such was the objection urged by the great body of the Gentleman who spoke on the opposstc side. When I look to what objections to this tax are, I cannot admit the force of the odjection against falling upon the incomes as derived from professions and from trade, in order to their contributing to their share to this tax. It would not, in my mind, be fair to entail the whole burden of the tax upon incomes thrived from land. I am not singular in that opinion. It was the opinion distinctly avowed by I)ord Althorp. That Noble Lord said—" I have heard gentlemen speaking of laying on a property tax ; a tax upon capital, upon rene, upon interest on money, upon mortgagns, Olson annui ties, &c., and that productive capital, say capital vested in manu factures, should be exempt. But I ask Honourable Gentlemen to consider what would be the effect of this—what the num ber of persons possessing small Incomes of that descrip tion. Let them figure to themselves a small freeholder living in tf - ,e neighbourhood of a great manufacturer —what his feelings would be at finding his little property heavily taxed, while his wealthy neighbour was exempt. If the legislature can adopt such a proposition they will commit a great injustice. The ab solute property of all classes must be taked, or none at all." That was the opinion of Lord Athorp at the time when he was Chan cellor of the Exchequer. Now what are the objections against this tax, which was to be imposed but for a limited period, and in order to make all parties contribute a portion of their incomes for the public service. It is contended that it is au act of injustice to tax all incomes generally and according to the same rule, and that there ought to be some discrimination on account of the tenure of incomes, and the sources from which they are derived. I say if you adopt that principle, you better abandon the the income tax altogether.—(Opposition cheers.) How is it pus. sible to apply any direct taxation according to that principle. Does the beer tax operate equally—does the house tax—does the window tax operate equally ? Are the assessed taxes equal ? Don't all taxation, whether direct or indirect, of necessity operate unequally ? --(Ministerial cheers.) Now take the case of the professional man. Suppose we are arguing the case of direct taxation against the pro. fessional man. I will show that the owner of land, &c. can readily escape indirect taxation. He can remove to any part of the Continent he pleases, and can still draw his rent. He is not obliged to live in this country. Whereas the professional man—the medical man—the lawyer—is necessarily, by hi s condition of life, forced to remain in this country. and consequently obliged to subr it to indirect taxation. But how am Ito proceed to adopt the principle you suggest ? You say that incomes derived from real property ought to be subject to the tax, but that incomes derived front professions and trade ought i t to be free, partly from the inquisitorial nature of the ma_ chinery of the tax, and partly from the fluctuating and changeable ❑ature of that description of property. Is an officer on half-pay to be taxed, and the physician who is realizing eight thousand or ten thousand pounds a.year not to be taxed ? You say that an nuitants for a term of years ought not to be subjected to the same amount of taxation as the man who derives hi.; income from capi tal. Will you subject the widow, who has only a jointure for life to depend on for her kuppor t, to this tax Mr. ROEBUCK—Certainly 'not. Sir ROBERT PEEL—With respect to life-interests in estates, is there to be a distinction made between property in ice simple and property with respect to which there is only a life interest.— (Hear, hear.) Suppose I have a life interest in an estate which is to fall to a distant relation, for whom I feel no particular degree of interest, is it to be calculated what my interest in the estate is, supposing that I depended entirely on that property for my means of support—surely in that respect regard must be had to my tenure of that property. . an assure the lion. Gentleman that that w ou ld only make sty me the more desirous of listening to any arguments which might be offered against my plan.—(Cheers.) And if any suggestion should heoffered which 1 consider an improvement on the tariff, so far from feeling the slightest shame at acknowledging that it was an improvement, I would be the very first to acknowledge my error, and to adopt the suggestion.—(Loud cheers.) With regard to the great principle of the tariff, however, when I consider the great re duction 1 have proposed, I indulge the confident hope, if the tariff should be adopted, that it will lead to the great improvement of our trade and to the increased prosperity of our country. With regard to the details, as I said before, if any suggestion shall be offered which I may consider as improvements upon the original proposi tion, I shall not hesitate a moment in adopting them.—(Hear, hear.) With regard to the colonies— Lord HO WICK—The differential duties. Sir it. PEEL—I am certainly not prepared to say that there should be no diff:rential duties in favour of our colonial produc. tions. The question is a very extensive one. In the first place you must consider the disadvantages under which the colonies labour.—(llear, hear.) You compel them to receive their manu factured articles from the mother-country.—(Hear, hear,) Is it unfair, therefore, to give the articles of colonial production a preference na the home market.--(Loud cheering.) , I am disposed to this k that the true principle, if it could be adopted, would be to consider the colonies in precisely the same light as if they were integral parts of our own empire. At the same time I am bound to admit that there are exceptions ; as, for instance, where the article is not exclusively one of colo nial produce, but when it is likewise the produce of this country as of a foreign country. In that case - the consumer ought to have the advantage; but where there is a competition solely between the colony and a foreign country, in that case I think that In justice to the colony a differential duty ought to be imposed. But this prin ciple of a differential duty in favour of our own colonial produc tions is no new principle. It is a principle which has always been acted on. It is a principle which you yourselves have adopted.—(Loud cheers.) On what principle did you im. pose a different and a lower rate of duty on rough rice the produce of the coast of Africa than on that of the produce of America. On what ground did you impose different duties on East . India sugar and on East India rum.—(Cheers.) I merely mention this for the purpose of showing that I am introducing no new prin. ciple in establishing differential duties In favour of our colonial. productions. There are differential duties already existing on up. wards of seventy articles in the tariff in favour of colonial produc tions. With regard to the details of the tariff, as I stated before, I am perfectly open to conviction, and if 1 should consider that the arguments should preponderate in favour of a modification, I shall have no difficulty whatever in assenting to it.—(Cheers.) I believe there is not any other part of the plan to which I need now advert Hon. Gentlemen opposite would themselves I think admit that I and those with whom I act have undertaken a task of extreme difficulty.—(Cheers.) They will admit that at the period of our accession to office we found many difficulties to contend with.— (Cheers.) We found a war in A ffghanistan.—(Hear, hear.) We found the Chinese hostilities unsettled—(Cheers)—and we found, I regret to say, existing between this country and France a spirit of jealousy —I will not call it hostility—but a spirit of jealousy, in consequence of the events of last year, the existence of which we cannot but deeply deprecate.—(Loud cheers,) I consider it of the utmost import ance that those feelings of good-will which of late years we were old had existed between France and this country should be renewed, t hat the ancient relations between this country and France should emain undisturbed, that the commercial intercourse be. tween the two countries should be extended.—(Year, hear.) All these I consider to be of the utmost importance at the same time I must say that I willl not consent to make any concessions unsuited to the honour and welfare of the country, be.. cause I consider that by preserving the honour of this country. I take the best means for preset ving peace.—(Cheers.) But as the cause of disunion no longer exists as the five Powers are now acting amicably together as regards the Eastern question, I trust that the good feeling which did exist between this country and France will soon be renewed.— ( Loud cheers.) — We found our relations with the United States in an unsettled state, the question of the Canada boundary having remained in that state for a series of years. Above all, we found the finances of the country in a most unsatisfactory state--(Hear, hear)—and we felt it our duty to apply ourselves to the proposal of those AT esassa.taavessessam.asa,am r sees s as slaramrsaesTrlsmrsrasargrraarsasse-assrasserse ' - AV lllii :measures which we considered the best suited .ta tea ,q iz ., replace our finances on a sound and satisfactory bards....jllsar ) a.;-*.i ' 44: Sir, lam charged that this measure —this measure of aVtie-Ome ''''t --. : . tax—is a measure not only proposed upon the wholo auto •" ' '`u- "fti,, lII,' the Government, but that it is a measure upon which s fiq of '. - t " Ls* :te:% - i ~", the Government exists. I think, to make any declaratiow, I tch ~.____.;' ' T AT- r . ..5),4 -- ", a subject, would be entirely uncalled fur; that, supposingAOrt I '.', f.e --7 'ea a - '!"i';•: , t C f ---. could iu the present state of aflairs, propose such a measuremi.,itiat j/..... ; " ---;2' '‘,.. - ",c 7-ti. v hich I have proposed, without considering the fate of the GOik'rn ," r - '— ,' ' - 1-- -- of the ment, been involved in the decition, such a declaration appears to ' •'...j/As me scarcely necessary. I did propose it on the responsibility Government. I did propose it as the financial and 4;ornmercial policy of the Government, a measure which I never would have consented to have proposed if I did not enter tain.a manifest con viction of its necessity, end risking my fate as a Minister upon it._ (Loud cheers from the Ministerial benches.) The more I consider, the moredeeply aml convinced of that measure, the measures corn. trifled with it are neCessari fo:thewelfare tit' the State. I relinquished office before in 1535, because .1 :Would not consent to an acquies enee in a principle which I felt not to be founded on justice. I propose now air alteration, and if the House of Commons should overrule that proposal, I shall retire with perfect conttrit, and with a•ennseioustress that I have discharged the duty which I owed to the country, by proposing a measure PS characterised by one of my opponents as a bold, a direct, and honest measure; and if that is the characteristic of it, It is well stilted to the exigencies of the present time.—(Cheers.) This is a period in which you re quire fiat the measures you propose should he a bold—should be direct j a ec te d. one— Now , should the at t b e e rn a p t t i s honestwiiieh are o te made —(Cheers.) t h ee o rests which I am supposed to have affected to unite thent in ncl) It may be re e those inte rests oppo sition to this income tax. It may possibly prevail-1 doubt it.-. (Cheers from the Ministelial side.) 1 doui.it whether there will not be an opinion on the part of the country—a conviction that the time is come when a vigorouf exertion should be made. That the time is come when, for the intereA 'of property, that pro perty should be tatted. But my opinion may be over-ruled, and yet I have confidence that what occurred id 1E35 may occur again— that, after the lapse of a short time after making ineffectual at. tempts to repair the finances by other means by resorting to indi rect taxes, it will be ultimately seen that the measures which I rio w propose is foundcd in reason and in justice. After the lapse of a short time, I shall see the House of Commons adopt that measure which they had rejected, but I believe that, with the prevailing feel ing of the country, that they will now adopt that moasure—that they will not draw delusive distinctions between the times of war and peace, and that we shall adopt that bold, that honest, that direct measure which, so far from being misconstrued by foreign countries, will be held up by them as a proof of the ancient vigour of the country, that the energies of the people are yet alive to the difficulties, and will ride triumphantly over them on account of that energy. (The Right Hon. Baronet resumed his seat amidst loud cheers.) Lord JOHN RUSSELL rose and said—Mr. Greene, I hope weaare coming to a decision upon this question.--(Loud cries of ' " No, no."( I shall confine myself solely to the income tax, and that with respect to the commercial tariff, upon which the Right Hon. Baronet naturally found it necessary ,:o make some observe. tions. I will entirely reserve anything I should have to say to ' some futuae occasion, when this iariff will be before the House. Sir, the Right Hon. Baronet commenced his speech by making some remarks upon what had fallen from Hon. Friend the Member for Liskeard, with respect to the tone in which the Riget Hon. Bart. had addressed the House. Sir, if his tone was always in consonance with his speech on the first night of this question—(lcer, hear)__ or . with the speech made to.nigh, 1 do not think the Hon. Gentle man )Mr; Buller) would have thought it ncessary to make any ob. nervation respecting it. But I certainly do think that, upon more than one occasion, the tone did justify the objections of my Hon. Friend. With respect to the speech in the recapitulation of tha plan of the Right Hon. Baronet, we certainly do not complain. But a few days afterwards, my Right Hon. Friend, who held the post of Chancellor of the Exchequer, who has a right, as much sa any person in this House, to ask questions with respect to financial . measures; he ventured to ask the Right Hon. Baronet what was the machinery by which his proposal was to be carried into effect. Why the Right Hon. Baronet not only refused him an answer, bu t refused it with a sneer—(Hear, hear, and cheers)--for whatever might be the politics of Mr. Pitt, everybody must admit that no Matter what measure was brought forward, he had at all times preserved an unanimity and courtesy towards all parties, which must be admired, not only by those who were during his time in Parliament, but by succeeding generations.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Baronet was pleased to say, that we, upon this side of the , House, would have opposed any measure which might have been brought forward by him. It was hardly necessary to give any answer to that statement, but it showed the tone and temper with which the Right Hon.-Gentleman was disposed to discuss the ques. tion.--(Loud cheers.) Having said so much, Sir, in justification of my Right Hon. Friend (the Chancellor of the Exchequer), I will now proceed to diseuss the question before the Committee. The Right Hon. Gentleman to-night has stated what the proposition was to be ; we have heard many gentlemen state the great hardships attending our income tax ; several Hon. Members expressed their hopes that there should be some modification in the measure pro posed by the Right Hon, Gentleman, The Hon. Member for Berk shire said that there should be some modification in it; another Hon. Gentleman showed clearly the injustice of an income :tax par. ticularly upon annuitants, and instanced a case in which he wes,him. self concerned, where he shewed that '21,7001. was embarked in annuities, and where 15,0001. were for terminable ennui. ties, but only the remaining 6,000/. should be taxed, but he proved to you that the tax, according to the proposed measure, would fall upon the whole 21,7001., and not upon the 15,0001. Other Honourable Gentlemen had shown the obvious difference between incomes, between 500/. or 600/. a year, derived from property, and the same sum made by persons in professions, or others whose incomes might not, in all probability. last more than five or six years, during which this income tax would conntinue ; these were the inequalities which were pointed out not only by Honourable Gentlemen upon tnis side of the House, but also by several lion. Gentlemen also, upon tha the Ministerial side.—(Hear, hear, from the Ministerial benches.) What was the answer of the Right Hon. Gentleman ? His answer was, that though these inequalities might exist, it would be im. 1 possible to remove them, and if it was attempted to remove them, it would be better for hitn to abandon the measure t ltogether. Sir, I think the Right Hon. Gentleman's reasons upon that point are sound reasons. I certainly would not force any modification upon the Right Hon. Gentloinan—and though I did not expect that the direct opposition to this tax would be caisied, yet if any modification of it was carried, I should be to some extent respon sible for it. I feel I should be taking the measure out of the hands of the Right Hon. Gentlemen, rail that I would be answerable for whatever modifications were made. If there was only one objec tion to this measure, and that was on the ground of ineque`ity, I might be ready to join with those who thought it ought to be modified; but as the ineasoae stands. I feal that the Right Hon. Gentleman is correct in his argainent. I thiale lie is sight that you cannot attempt to remely one ineque - ty with. out meeting others which were just as clef— and as glaring as that.—(Hear, hear.) Then, Sir, I shall noevote for any mod'. fication of this measure, as the lion, Member for Bath hes said, " You must, when imposing this tax, see all the eircenistances of a man's life." If you do that which could be done between life assurance companies and individuals, between the Government and, individuals, you will be doing that which will be leaving the fate of the Government of the count./ entirely in the hands of the executive. Besides, you will be sanciioring a system of partiality, and a most objectionable inquisition. I then concur in that part of the Right Hon. Gentleman's obse. sations, in which he stated that you must take this proposition as it is -that the Committee and the House must be prepared too deal with this pro position as it now stands, and therefore in taking it as it now stands it has every kind of inequality, and its inequality you can. not remedy.—(Hear, he. ^.) The Right Hon: Gentleman said that you would ea'y increase the evils if you attempt I it. You must then take it vs it is. You are to consider whether a measure like this is to be resorted to only in ,times of danger. --(Hear.) The question is whether there is that pitb"c necessity which would make you avec to the imposition of such a tart ? (Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gehtleman has said, 1 , 1 referring to authorities, that such a tax had been resorted to already in times of peace; but there are authorities I; kewise to show what the statements made with respect to the Government were, whose acts the Right Honourable Gentleman was now fol lowing. In 1806, when Lord Grenvile was a member of the Goveloment, and Lord Lansdowne was Chancellor of the Exchequer, a discussion took place with respect to the intent:on of those Ministers to continue the income tax in times of peace, and Lord Lansdo% de at that time clergy said, that :Al these taxes should teaminate in times of peace. He concluded by saying that he had proposed the continuing of that tax in 1807 es a war , tax, without the slightest idea of continuing it during the time of peace, and there was nothing in the then state of the country, or in the state of Europe, which' required it. It was only required during war and with it it ought to terminate;—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") Lord Grenville spoke afterwards, and he was, If possible, more emphatic, for he apper'ed to their Lordships and the Government, saying that when they asked for that odious and in. quisitorial measure, he thought it was only to be continu - ..1 dosing the time of war.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman finds faolt with us because we call it an inquisitorial measure, and he says that if it be so he will not presss it, but I have shown that these are the terms with which Lord Grenville, who we.; a party to it at first designated it.—(Hear, hear.) Sir, a tax may be odious and inquisitorial, it may be unjust, but still it may be preferable to bringing the country under the power of a foreign Government—it may be preferable to the loss of independence, and to evils threatening our country—then it may be perfectly justifiable ; rod I think it was in the time when Mr. Pitt originally carried it, and when the Government of 1806 thought fit to continue and increase it. But I by no means sup pose such a measure to be necessary now for the peace of the country.—(Hear, hear.) It is almost impossible to compare the times of a mutiny at the Nore, a rebemon in Ireland, and the Republic of France,.• its principles sometimesproceeding makingwinaythiberw its i ras ar o m f sa,girt:atarnhisis making torian, way for its principles; and sometimes like a chain shot, carrying both together." When Napoleon was calrying devastation abroadaand this country found itself obliged to go to we- for the mr'ntenance of its power, that was the period when this tax was to be imposed. When, again, Napoleon became successful, and gained several battles, and brought the Prussian monarchy to his feet, and hal be come arrogant in Ills treaties, then this country was called on for an increased tax. Is there anything in the public necessities now to be compared with those? — (Cheers.) Would it not be ridiculous it I were to compare what happened to our troops in Affghar'sten, and the length end expense of the war in China ? If • I were to compare them I say, with what I have just mentioned, would it not be most lidi culous.—(Hear, hem) lire Right Hon. Gentleman has spoken of the war in Affghanistan. But no question was ever raised in this House as to the policy of that War. The Right Hoe. Member for Dorchester did give a notice of that kind, but he ?flex wards withdrew it.—(Hear, hear.) I therefore say there was no public disapprobation of the step expressed.—(Cilea of " Hear, hear.") But even if the Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite had formally e'sapproved•of that ma - , I concur in the determination which the Right Hun. Gentleman has expressed that you must main tain that war. But I have the greatest confidence that before many despatches shall reach this country, the unfortunate disasters which have occurred may be repaired by her Majesty's arins.—(Hear.) With respect to China likewise, whatever difficulty you may have in defeating them, you may say at least that there are no effints they can make which will at all affect you, or endager the most distant possessions of her IT jesty.—(Hear.) With respect to these occurrences, I observe that there is a great difference iu the words of the Government according to the object immediately in view; thus, when the purpose is to make a case against an income tax, we are told that peace prevails, and that there is no occasion for it;. but when the purpose Is to make out a case for an income tax, then this peace becomes hostility. There arc some very pardonable hostilities. But we cannot take it both ways.—(Hear, hear.) If there have been hostilities in Ca. nada, China, and Atfghatisstan, do not then make it a matter of blame to us that the usual consequences of hostilities should happen or that, during the time, your revenue. —(hear, hear.) But if you take it on the other hand, and using common parlance, say, as in her Majesty's late Speech, that we are at peace with the great powers of Europe, and the United States of America, when we do not mention France, Austria, Prussia, or the United States, and say nothing which portends war—don't tell me that an income tax is required because of dangerous hostill. ties.—( Hear, hear.) One of these two courses must be taken, and I hope we shall decide by a vote to-night that we are at peace, and that being at peace there is no necessity for the income tax. — (Hear, hear.) But as I cannot think that these hostilities arc suf ficient grounds for the imposition of an income tax, 1 consider the case is really this, that there is a deficiency in the revenue of :,;, , v a o , millions and a halt: It comes simply to th a t. I will allow during this year, and say for three or four years to come, yourrenue revenue may will cause an expense above what the ordinary may be expected to be of three millions an d a half. Grant i ng that to be the state of our finances, is that a sufficient ground for the imposition of the income tax ? Hear; Exchequer, o howed hear.) I think my s ' Right lion: Friend, the late Chancellor pro over the ground time took, n th d not wish to g clearly that it is not.—(Hear,.hear. or state the points w hich think were not been answered, but he s bowed that twenty-five millions of t axes have been reduced, and even without going to arti c l es of general such a s salt and leather, yet, I find th a t h undreds of tlmud consumption, s of pounds have been surrendered on articles on which 'they might have been again imposed with fat less injury to the