The Sun. — London, England, 1849-02-02 00:00:00

iy, wlaen we jes ty had not guests in her ranquil, that )resides over of the Royal a treaty con f which per ard of. This matters. Our than it is at brisk than it 3umstances I reductions. with reduc ire—not with f the people, We . were iilitia was to .e? One of rmation that It is not sur the resources go since one ;duction than tctory or suf n this side of is not really =stances of Ins which we Government )untry—let it inets of other English regi 3. Yet large ast year, and :t of affairs." are converts t be the case, t be satisfied iat principle ; having been. argely circu iey have in- There was a I with accla- Lad the lumi them atmos in mitigated ur in the eco ions I should rdens of the mount named or the Hon. ascertain, or whence these is promised I e petunt ;o those Hon. 0,000,0001. or y—that more per annum, or ealised by the n the Protec ty's Ministers period for the e that expen -I'his I know, advocated re ices, and as to , r to a state of " the present is always fol- has been an tectionists and t Hon. Friend for his cheer, will not cheer ; saving in the :Government, ret their fall; nts effected in Lcal position of The moment not arising y, but rather reign Powers country was -enee to their unediately in t policy which ry short time re was a great 3 also, unfor ormed of able se the public ; vernment, led the Duke of had changed; 10, an alliance I France to ob- • mays opposed. • of the Reform I cannot believe t >enditure arbi- • ar, and not by cy of the case stances of thi ' of the Go • come forwar' n all the inte • two last year ; relations, an' he Noble Lori ax the uttnos t ter to put th ; Iheers.) W ha I does not con ,- mtry. mu at of of affair s I o, ter of rhetor is to ascertain if L t h e oracles an d ere have bet la gsible that th by the expel 1- t is this tt of State ft tt s colleagues reached tht tC ear again )perty in th s e bore the bu to war. /31 tt roperty exists' ing the Cons! property hel ,he populatiot r!, that with th Continent ar of the /vas( a l 'ar. But th t oracles, and ason with h P ask, is it tr nion that t but of revol al Rrehended ? ion upon du 1 . 1 t; I think t • It is a std of all men, I ; lvsed, in whi de of the pot ail ad of the ci )le times. N e revolution 1),;', , the new Sol )eople ; and be firmly es .`' revolution glorious in I , ect, when co oti . been engag ;ratic war, t of birth. I 5 0 read a ape; tat was wort 11 / 6 doubt, had li d t Leaguer, a a; and able a ( /S t —(Cheers t It; which I can: ent to, for I 5 1; I said that ct rope, and th , I Governme; (Lord Palm r o vents thatbs its ; but if tt 7 0 they do is. 1. 4 Let agree attempt a O O !ars there , e% conquests s rs , lose who P ) st of Malta l —(Cheers.) to Gibraltar• of weaknes '•; of 3itt by Prusl 1 14 D ower, not or 1 0 height at t Vhat think 3 0 , ivania by A i c e less, and tw 5 0 the connue , lies, nor of be .:onstitutes t 1 province s herson, an d 0 listricts form re re is one 01 , 0 ) be totally q Ise a new Pr i ji f races. i t s• Lot 41, conquer ot , liscovered 17 , ; I I )rincipla Affairs ow e lese genO en' b.a' nd it so, 1, 10 • hat great iett, tory of l'on u t ge ountry 13 Y is pie of Wive°, ear war 0 0 3 nce , differ „ n , predourin r l 7 c e 6 of eorY th pposed t° t hat f 2bema fey the 185 "Anci to the P., -- h inh'• nics, o ,f "pre rem 08 ,„ n tei be c` lfi. „ .- A rea n not Prep, to have s:c!brif Lnion, a t g t of lance- --4 "`" t he of order', t he Llidation otdir, men 01 1 1 ea t most ern ui o ey, ' wn Wong .o,_ entered i,nrcl once, 1 n sp eech " s p eech " Yrca ing a 7, 0 10 tort' app the against brute for . h thin * „ , do wi` bout, m en, left io country', i 0,9 igan ra : s. p ro tecwTh e o oaht I have or :m are trighlY Who said, "With how little wisdom a nation may be governed." 7 4 observations for the last few years have led me to the conclusion, not exactly similar, but analogous to that remark; and if ever I should be blessed with offspring, in stead of using the words of the Swedish statesman, I would rather address my son in this way-- ,, My son, see with how much ignorance you can agitate a nation."—( Great cheering and laughter.) Yes! but the Queen's Ministers are truckling to these men.—(l mmense c h ee ring from the Protectionists.) That is the position of affairs.—(Renewed cheers from the to Same quarter.) Her Majesty's Ministers have yielded Public opinion. Public opinion on the Continent has turned out to b e th e vo i ce o f secre t soc i e ties, and public opinion in England is the vo i c e and clamour of organized clubs.— (Cheers from the Protectionists.) Her Majesty . ds oes Ministers whois have yielded to public opinion as a tradesman betrayed in an act of overcharge—he yields to public opinion ashen ashen he takes a less sum. So the financial 'affairs country are to be arranged, not upon principerasnosfehtihgehrepios an policy . or from a n y i mper i a l c onsiderations, but h unholy pressure from a minority which theyd emkanndoswitt,haantdtwh3heo, have a confidence of success because bays already beaten two Prime Ministers.—(Cheers.) Opinion ; eerhsn.)t Opinion is stronger than truth, according t I am i nc li ne d t o prefer truth, and particularly when dealing with with her Majesty's Administration, and therefore native an amendment.—(Loudandwecoanretineauleidedchnepeornintgo vote .) I honestly believe that the Address does lot give a candid and ingenuous unot uonunspry. I h opinion tetehvee drawn Throne as to the present condition of the up an amendment, couched in no partisan an inflammatoryor spirit, but which Ido believe does give honest and fa e os affairs o f t o his h e proposed Throne. re_presentation of the present aspect the words (The Hon. Member here read rd amendment, to the effect that to e he H r o m us a e je r s e ty gre t t h s a t t ha n t ei i t t he i r s compelled humbly to represent her Majesty's relations with foreign powers,mosatnif normanufactures tn inrtehs addressinge osr m state of the revenue, nor the condition of thee o justify com merce of the country, are such tas y her Majesty in the language of congratulation; and that a large portion of the agricult ural and colonial interests of the empire are labouring under a state of . progressive depression, calculated to excite serious apprehension and anxiety.) That is the amendment which I beg to propose. I have no ticed the crude and hostile speculations that are afloat, especially respecting financial reform, not only because I consider them to be very dangerous to the country, not only because, according to rumour, they have converted the Go vernment, but because avowedly on the part of their pro mulgators, they are only tending to ultimate efforts (Loud cheers.) This I must say of the new revolu tionary movement, that its proceedings are characterized by frank audacity. They have already menaced the Church, and they have scarcely spared the Throne.—(Renewed cheers.) They have denounced the constitutional estates of the realm as antiquated and cumbrous machinery, not adapted to the present day. No doubt, for the expedition of business, the Financial Reform Association presents greater facilities than the House of Commons. It is true that it may be long before there are any of those collisions of argument and intellect among them which we have here; they have no discussions and no doubts; but still I see no part ;of the go-a-head system which is likely to sapersede the sagacity and matured wisdom of English institutions ; and so long as the English Legislature is the chosen temple of free discussion, I have no fear, whatever party may be in power, that the people of England will be in favour of the new societies.--(Hear, hear.) I am per s fectly aware of the difficulties which we have to encounter in this struggle. If I were to listen to the traditionary petty, and prudential reasons which regulate Parliamentary proceedings in ordinary times, I should probably be led to believe that in moving an amendment to the address I was acting an unwise part. But I believe the amendment to be justified by facts—(Cheers)—and it is to the country I ad dress myself in doing, in this instance, what I conceive to be my duty. I know very well the difficulties which we have to encounter—the dangers which illumine the distance. The }lon. Gentleman who is the chief originator of this move ment made a true observation when he frankly and freely said that the best chance for the new revolution lay in the dislocation of parties in this House.— (Hear, hear.) I told You that when I ventured to address some observations to the House almost in the last hour of the last session, I saw the difficulty which such a state of things would ine vitabl y produce. But let us not despair; we have a duty to per form, and, notwithstanding all that has occurred, we have Still the inspiration of a great cause. We stand here to uphold not only the throne, but the empire; to vindicate the i ndustrial privileges of the working classes; to reconstruct the colonial s y s t em; t o u ph o ld the Church, no longer assailed y appropriation clauses,,but by vizored foes, and to main tain the majesty of Parliament against the Jacobin man canvres of Lancashire.—(Continued applause.) This is a stake not lightly to be lost. At any rate, I would sooner 1 11 y tongue were palsied before I counselled' the people of -r- zlgland to lower their tone.—(Renewed cheers.) Yes, I would sooner gat this House for ever than I would say to he people o f E ng l and that they overra t e d t h e i r pos iti on . I leave, that deli cate i ntimat i on to the f ervent patr i o ti sm o f t tee ir gentlemen of the new school. For my part, I denounce he Politics, and I deny their predictions; but I do so be cause I have faith in the people of England ; in their genius and in their industry.—(The Hon. Gentleman resumed his se at amidst vehement applause from the Opposition benches.) The amendment having been read by the SPEAKER. M r. H. GRATTAN rose and said, that he had an amend ment to propose which, as it related to a paragraph preceding that upon which the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Disraeli) had just moved an amendment, would require to be put first. The amendment he intended to propose referred to the paragraph relating to Ireland which p h* regarded as an insult to the people of th at country. The insurrection in Ireland—wh i ch Was alluded to so g rave l y i n h er M a j es ty's Speech—was a mere mock ins urrection. There was not a single particle. of evidence against the persons who had been apprehended under the A c t suspending the Habeas Corpus; and he ob jected to the proposed continuance of that suspension. With respect to that passage in the Speech relating to the Irish poor-law, it could not be acceded to by any Irish Member who wished well to his country. There was no use in ap pointing a Committee to inquire into the law — it ought to be r epea l ed entirely. The Irish proprietors were super seded, in th e management of their own affairs. We admitted that they had a w e ll-i nten ti on ed Lord-Lieutenant, but he contended that the lives and property of the people ought not tiia to o a be placed at the mercy of a Lord-Lieutenant, how ;:e!• well-intentioned. Why had they covered Ire "nu with an army of spies and detectives, so gentleman could not ascend an old tower witho u t b e ing watched with suspicion ? Where W as there any proof of this pretended Irish rebellion ? Where Was the list of the killed and wounded ? He had seen no in surrection, rrection. He had heard no shot fired. He would h f rank and candid with them, and at once tell theGovern mente that this r e b e lli on h a d been " got up" to put down the repeal question. The clergy of Ireland had been often ca lumniated as disaffected and seditious, but when O'Brien fled to the country in order to escape arrest the clergy made the people retire to their homes. With respect to that gentle man, he could not prevent the people following him, but he wished to kn ow why he was pr osecute d, w h en Mr. O'Connell was allowed to assemble 50 6,000 men on the hill of Tara? It was n o t till lately they had heard of pensioning the Roman Catholic clergy, Wh y did they seek to do so? It could not be to m a k e t h em loyal, for they were loyal at Ballingary. No, they w ante d to bind the clergy fast—they wanted to at tach them to the Government of the day, and to give them, /let salary for their religious, but pay for their political dut ies. Catholicloenyh ad bullied the Protestant, they had beggared the , and now they were going to buy the priest. The th . Gentleman concluded by moving, as an amendment to e Address, that after the words, " many parts of Europe," the words, " the disturbance in Ireland has not been renewed, but a feeling of discontent, augmented by the distress of the people, Speedily as exists, whi c h it s h a ll b e our d u ty t o wa t c h, and as possible to re me dy.", • 51 r. J. O'CONNELL seconded the amendment. He must 17erve, however, that he entirely approved of the doctrine t ai rl down by the Government with respect to Sicily, in vh ° ; ;ving that she had a fair claim to a native Legislature, b ' l st , at the same time, else was bound to a superior power trultshe golden link of the Crown. They should have adopted a pr Zea principle with respect to Ireland, instead of making Powe r elt of the last insurrection to renew an arbitrary in Irel whieh was meant to suppress a constitutional agitation fer a s il .d.for the same privileges as they had sought to con done (3 ,'' l 3'. He acknowledged that Lord Clarendon had of the good act, in refusing to arm the Orangemen but i north against the Roman Catholics of the south, for 1.1 every other respect his Lordship had been an un laudunate selection for the Government of Ire itio.-; __Admitting all they said of him to be true, it was b 4,", t Meonstitutional to ask the House to deprive a large u. 0 !.. a t her Majesty's subjects of their rights because The Warne alluded to a redaction of their military forces. He te wa d the House that if they pursued their_present policy !.erds Ireland a reduction of the estimates must be impos _")_l , and that they must still continue to keep an army of ',l ° • t p e ation in that unfortunate country. To any continuance th 'e ()suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act he would offer hot m et determined and unabated opposition, and he cared waiwaasti etaoehoteinttiger he was accused of being factious or not when he athhbe: thein d u ef defence of his country. That Act was the most v __ ec. act of ty ranny ever inflicted on a people. The a tha c t or T it h te ey e w on eol t d he m P e o e o t r m -l o a s w t s. r What first,with a se nd end their labours with the last wee p k o o b f ab th l y e se ssion, and the result would be a blue book to be added to thedthe on condition ° r •w r lawt o hr than 'w o u hundreds of similar documents ex b t r e era e t s o t if a poor-law viehr would of Ireland. The effect of ;that Bible, while the absentee ought did his duty ondoctrines pr pagaot of Louis a Blanc,communism But, ra estate,main tabled, the resident proprietor, who f r d e e hi s, rid th n e l there receive be to ebpeadreodubelsymtauxchedas. pßoes-. England in Ireland was was another source from which the poor of W re a l Church of slefiakTenhefrormevetnhuee Catholic f at t h h o e licchurch. The Catholics • did not wish to see that revenue restored, but the revenues of the • time had devoted to the Church at the earliest been purpose th. suPPert and relief of the poor, and to that exi st * might again be applied after the termination of ing interests. Something like this would finally have i_.° extreme adopted, though it might now be designated as an exetneme and wild scheme. Another measure the Govern ment would be Obliged to pass, and that was a measure for buoisnal, the only real stimulant for the exercise of . `"L'ustrY---.8 • in the possession ecurity to a man of the fruit • landlord and s of his own industry. The relations between they tenant ought to be properly settled, and 0 2"Ka they had shown by the introduction of measures u the subject, that He yet tat c had neglected to regulate those relations. measures of relief for Ireland. 'Since the union that country been gradually sinkin t • there g —ye justice were only done, would be peace in Ireland T tablish ments might be reduced. , and the mi itary es Address for his kind e He thanked the seconder of the upon him and other English expressions towards Ireland, and called to suffer the degrad at i o gentlemen not to allow Ireland of measures of coercion. and insult involved in the adoption Mr. W. FAGAN said, that t g Irish representatives who wouldhpaa-h he was one of those struggle through their difficult'refer to see his countrymen resources rather than that they Shouldes suPported mendtheir own to Parliament, still he knew thatcome likeicants in Ireland:was such that the property state o. of several district s in capable of supporting the p oor at the the di str i ct was that 20s. in the pound on the g.'esent moment, and be sufficient for the purpose. witicl.Perty would not Irish Poor-law, he differed from the respect t° t he for Limerick, for he thought that inquiry sm., Member into that system; and it would be i nconsistent requir e d on part of those Irish Members who called fo r th at inquiry l the as year, to come down in the present and d ec l are that they didnot want it. He was for continuing the system of poor-laws, but he was also in favour of making it more effective for the protection of the poor and the prevention of destitution. They had been always told that agitation was the bane of Ireland, and that the moment agitation ceased the British Parliament would consider the social evils of Ireland with a view to their amelioration. Well, he asserted that agitation in Ireland was at present dead, and the Government, instead of applying for fresh measures of coercion, ought to have proposed measures of amelioration. He admitted that Lord Clarendon had used • the powers committed to him with great moderation, but he (Mr. Fagan) was not inclined to give his confidence to Lord Cl arendon.. as long as that no bl eman pers i sted i n up h o ldi ng the jury system in Ireland, which was a jury-packing system. Lord J. RUSSELL —The lion. Gentleman the Member for B uckiugbanuliiro (Air. Disraeli), vflio apolie first in THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, r this debate after my Noble Friends the mover of the Address, and the seconder, paid a tribute which I think natural to the Noble Lord who loeg led that party with which he was connected, and whose loss he most justly de plored. Sir, I could not hear that tribute without remem bering I, too, since the last session of Parliament, have lost friends with whom I was politically connected; and I must say that I think it is not only natural, but riOit, that such losses should not be passed over in silence in this House (Hear, hear)—because the loss of men of undoubted integrity, of high spirit, of great talent, and of indefatigable industry in the transaction of public business, are not private but na tional losses.—( Hear,) Sir, in reatrring to the various to pics which have been raised ki this debate, I will state but briefly the remarks that I have to make with regard to Ireland, because there is no subject connected with that country which is not likely, in a short time, to form the subject of a separate discussion.—(Hear, hear.) With re gard to the particular amendment which the Hon. Gentle man has moved, relating to the powers of which the Go vernment propose to ask the renewal, I Nvili only call upon the House to defer its judgment until they hear the state ment which my Right Hon. Friend shall make, founded upon the opinion, certainly, of the Lord-Lieutenant; but that opinion, formed not only upon his own judgment and his own strict and sagacious observation of passing events, but likewise upon the testimony of those from whom he is accus tomed to obtain information with regard to the state of the country.—(Hear, hear.) I will only say, further, that I hope this House will bear in mind, when they come to that discussion, how long a Government must pause, sup posing no such power to exist, before it comes down to ask Parliament for such powers—what menaces, what agita tion, what interruption of trade and commerce, what dis turbance of the public peace must occur ; and that if the Suspension Act should expire, and agitation were again to begin, it would not be at the first moment of that agitation that Government could, with any hope of success, ask for a grant of such powers, but that they must wait until a course of events somewhat similar to that which took place before had again occurred in Ireland, to the great misfortune of that country.—(Hear, hear.) For these powers which we pro pose to ask are not powers against Ireland ; on the con trary, they are powers for the protection of all the well disposed—for the protection of the great majority of the country against those who would turn its present condition to purposes of disaffection and rebellion.—(Hear, hear.) Sir, with respect to another topic, I own I was somewhat surprised to hear from the Hon. Gentlemen who moved and seconded this amendment, that the Government ought to have come down and proposed at once its Bill for tho Amend ment of the Poor-law. I have been accustomed to hear con- tinual reproaches that in our legislation for Ireland we do not consult those who represent that country, and who know the feelings, the wants, and the condition of that country ; that we rely upon our own notions and English feelings, and do not listen to the opinions of those who are natives of Ireland, and so much better acquainted with the nature of the measures suited to that country. Now, that we propose that there should be a Committee in which we should be able to ascertain what Irish Members think of the operation of the poor-law, and to consult their experience before we bring a Bill into the House, we are told that we ought to have framed our Bill entirely upon our own notions ; that we should not have listened to Irish Members, but acted independently of any such advice or information.—(Hear.) It is obvious that if we had taken that course, we should have been liable to reproach, and I have no doubt we should have come under the censure of those who now blame us for taking the opposite course.—(Hear, hear.) We cannot say, either, that there is that unanimous opinion in Ireland as to the amendment of the Poor-law that upon that opinion we could frame a Bill for the amendment of that law, because when a small portion of the representatives of Ireland met, I think only nine, as the Hon. Gentleman says, there were among them five different opinions as to the amendment that ought to be made in the Poor-law—(A laugh)—so that if we take the opinion of one of those five, we should have had four to one of Irish opinions against the measure we should have proposed.—(Hear and a laugh.) With regard to what has been said as to other Irish mea• sures, there were several Bills introduced last year, and which we mean again to submit to the consideration of the House; there is one with regard to that long-vexed question of land lord and tenant, which last year was before a Committee, and which we propose again to lay before the House; there is the question with regard to the franchise, with respect to which my Right Hon. Friend has a Bill already prepared; and there is the grand jury system also; so that we are not liable, in fact, to the reproach of not having attended to any other subject with respect to Ireland but that of re straining the liberties of that country.—( Hear, hear.) I come now, Sir, to some of the questions raised by the lion. Gentleman (Mr. Disraeli), and I think it will be as well that I should enter into them now, taking this Address as a whole, as speak merely to the question of the amend ment which has been moved. Now let me say, with re gard to the Honourable Gentleman, that I think he dis played very great ingenuity in the objections that he made to the Address proposed; he cavilled at one phrase, carped at another term, found fault with the title that had been given to a foreign sovereign, and in that way with very great ability kept the House from the consideration of the questions that were really before it—(Hear, hear)—and he proceeded upon that to move an amendment, which as I shall presently show is of a most extraordinary character.— (Hear, hear.) But the Hon. Gentleman thought fit first of all to state to us what was the present state of our commercial legislation and policy, and how much we had gone astray in respect to it. In support of this opinion he made some statistical observations, which I confess were unintelligible to me; he told us that when a very large import of food was introduced from America, the American growers and importers bad 5.000,0001. of profit in the trans action; and what does he wish to infer from that? I should have thought, anon that question, that even all Pro tectionists as well as all Free-traders would acknowledge that when there is a great deficiency of food in this country, whether you have sliding-scale, fixed duty, or no duty at all, it should be your object in that emergency to col lect as much food as possible—(Hear, hear)—and that if there is a good price in this country while the price in the country of production is low, the temptation of that profit is a reason why your wants should be supplied—(Hear, hear)—and that you should rejoice that those wants should be supplied by so large an importation.—(Hear, hear.) That American growers and merchants should gain 5,000,0001. of profit in that transaction, provided we had the benefit of the food for the consumers in this country, is not a subject of lamentation with me. f only think that it is the natural result of commerce, and one which we are not by any means to deplore, but to take as the effect of all commer cial transactions.—(Hear, hear.) For my part, I never can enter into that notion which the Honourable Gentle man seems to entertain, that every gain of the foreigner is the loss of the British people—(Hear, hear)—that every time there is a large profit made by some foreign pro• ducer or merchant we ought to lament, and that we should consider that it is so much of which we have been robbed.— (Hear, hear.) On the contrary, if commerce is carried on in a healthy state, there ought to be a gain on both sides —a gain on our side, if we have commerce with America, with regard to the articles we want—a gain on their side in furnishing them—a gain on the part of those who are concerned in carrying the goods from one country to another —and so far from thinking that a subject upon which we should pour our lamentations, I should be glad to see that commerce is still further extended.—(Hear, hear.) I believe that the laws we have passed in the course of the last few years, so far from tending to impoverish the country, will tend to enrich it.—(Hear, hear.) Ido not think that we have any reason to com plain if those commercial transactions become more ex tended; but I do believe, with respect to the importation of corn, for instance, which is the great necessary of life for the people, that the people of England will be great gainers by not having the recurrence of those times of very high prices to which they were formerly subjected.—(Hear.) The Hon. Gentleman says that the law of 1842 was changed after an experience of three years; but in my opinion the laws were changed after, an experience ot 30 years. The corn-law was enacted by Parliament in 1815 ; it was changed and modified into various shapes, but at last statesmen of different parties, and the majority of this House, came to the opinion that in no shape whatever would it be expedient to continue this law, and that it would be far better that the trade in food should be made entirely free. I was an advo • cate, for one; of the modifications of that law—for a fixed duty; and I believe that if that fixed duty had been enacted many years ago, it would have acted most beneficially tor the country, and, at last, have gra dually given way to the complete free-trade that we now have.— (Hear, hear.) . But Parliament having not chosen to adopt that mode, having chosen to set corn entirely free, I hope that no one' will attempt—above all, I hope that no one will be successful—in renewing any duty upon that main article of subsistence.—(Loud cheers.) The Hon. Gentleman having stated his opinion upon this subject, which, if it meant anything, meant, as I conceive, a restoration of pro tective duties, then proceeded to enter into the, question of our foreign relations. Now, all that is stated in the Queen's Speech, with regard to the foreign relations of this country, has been put in that Speech by the advice given to her Majesty according to what is strictly the fact with regard to the transactions that have taken place; and all that my Noble Friend (Lord H. Vane) calls upon this ,House to de is, to thank her Majesty for informing them of those various transactions. There is throfighout the Address no word of congratulation or of approbation of the trans actions,or of the policy pursued : on the contrary, those ques tions are entirely reserved, because her Majesty is pleased to say in her Speech that, when the public service will permit, the papers relating to these various transactions will be laid before Parliament. Now, it has been usual for the House of Commons, which does not take upon itself ge nerally the initiative in these matters, at all events to wait for such communications; to press for such papers if they should think it necessary, or having waited till those papers are produced, to found, if any Member should think it ne cessary to found upon them, some charge or some resolution with respect to thetipinion'of the House; and such appears to me to be the reasonable course with regard to these trans actions.—(Hear, hear.) With respect to the state of manufactures, with respect to the state of the colonies or of agriculture, the Hon. Gentleman may fairly call upon this House to express an opinion ; but these foreign negotiations, as we know, are generally matters of a somewhat com plicated character, leading to the, exchange of notes. and assuming different Phases in the ,course of the transac tions ;- and it is unusual for a Member to come forviard on the first night ot a session, without the information, and without even asking for it, and to call upon the House to vote that her Majesty's relations with foreign powers are not such as to justity us in addressing her Majesty in the lan guage of congratulation. No congratulation is pro posed, no congratulation has been asked, and this is merely saying that the House of Commons thinks proper to form its opinion without a knowledge of the negotiations that have taken place, without any insight into the transactions, and to say at once that _they do not form matter of congratulation, which means saying at once that they form matter of con demnation.—( Hear, hear.) But when I heard the Honour able Gentleman make his observations upon our foreign re lations, it convinced me the more that he was wrong in asking the House to come to a conclusion, because his observations convinced me that he was totally wrong with regard to them. He seemed to suppose, for instance, that with regard to the war carried on between the King of Sardinia, whom, in his zeal for titles, he called the King of Piedmont and the Emperor of Austria, we had proposed to impose our mediation without ever having been requested by the Emperor of Austria to mediate. Another statement I know has- been made, and is current ' with the public, that mediation was proposed to us by lAustria, and was refused by this country. Neither of those statements is at all correct. Tile real fact is, that the Emperor of- Austria was pleased to Send, an Austrian statesman, a very dis tinguished man—a gentleman whom I have often had occa sion to ineet,and always had great pleasure in intercourse with him —he sent th a t s t a tesman to this country with a propos al to this country to mediate between him' and the Kin g of . Sardinia We accepted that mediation ; but with regard. to the propos e d basis of it we suggested that an alte ration should be m d that we hada e:by the Emperor. That statesman considered accepted the mediation, but he demurred to the term s of the r ou basis, - and insisted that the terms proposed by returned Em peror to yrere those which ought to be the terms, and he diation was his own country. At a subsequent period a me these circumstances:--the to the Emperor of Austria, and under pressed in the fie King of Sardinia being much France; a correspondence determined to ask for the assistance of e ndence took place between this country and the French onsoveeurnment, and the French Government at our request . c ted to put aside the question of be ginning hostilities against Austria in Italy, and conjointly with us to propose terms of mediation to the two powers.— ( Hear, hear.) The Wm. Gentleman said, in another part of his speech, that he doubted whether this country ought to have acted with France—with the Governments which she has had since the Revolution of February. Sir, I feel no such doulets.—(Cheers.) I feel convinced that our acting in concert with France during the past year has been of great benefit to the peace of Europe.—(Hear, hear.) I feel con vinced that if we had said at once, " However moderate your propositions—however pacific the course that you pro pose to pursue, you have changed your monarchical Govern ment into a Republic, and therefore we will have nothing to say to your proposals,"—in the first place, such an answer would have excited a suspicion in France that, although we did not profess it, we meant to interfere with respect to her form of Government—(Hear) ;—and I believe, in the next place, that being left to take herown line without concert and without advice, she would have been driven by the violent party in that country into hostilities by which the whole peace of Europe would have been compromised—(Hear.) I therefore differ entirely from the Hon. Gentleman in think ing that we ought not to have had any concert with France upon these matters. Whether France has been wise in changing her form of Government to a Republic—whether it is true, as the Hon. Gentleman says, that there are no Republicans in France—that is a question upon which I do not choose to enter—(Hear, hear)—it is a question for the French people.—(Hear.) But what I know is, that although at the commencement of that revolution there were terms used in a circular of M. Lamartine's which certainly appeared to menace the peace of Europe, and though there was, as I thought, a great deal too much jargon about " na tionality," yet, with respect to M. Lamartine, with respect to General Cavaignac, and with respect to the present Government, I can say that we have had to deal with persons directing the foreign affairs of France since the revolution, who have listened fairly and candidly to all the representations we had to make to them, and who have fairly stated to us what they believed to be the interest and the policy of France ; and we have had no reason whatever to complain, but, on the contrary, reason to rejoice that we had to deal with men of high honour and of pacific views. —(Cheers.) But I am not sure that I am at all con vincing the Hon. Gentleman when I say that our concert with France has tended to the preservation of the peace of Europe, because, as far as I collect from the tenor of his speech, his inclination seemed to be that our object ought to be war, and that the fault he found with us was that we had not let war take its course.—(Hear, and a laugh.) That was his view more especially with respect to Holstein. He said, " Your mediation has put a stop to hostilities, and what would have gone on very well has been arrested by your mediation." Why, what would have gone on ? The King of Denmark would have resisted the power of the Germans; the Germans would have insisted that they had rights with respect to Schleswig, which has been long a favourite opinion in Germany; and France and Prussia would have taken their view of the matter. Those views not being counteracted by any pacific media tion, war must have been the result; and the complaint the Hon. Gentleman makes is, that we did interpose when both the King of Denmark and the King of Prussia, and the Central Power at Frankfort wished us to mediate, and that we did not allow that war to get up, and to take its course in Europe, as he showed very clearly it might otherwise have done.—(Cheers.) Then there was another question, naturally, so far as wo are concerned, of more serious im port, because we have more actively interfered ; I mean with regard to Naples and Sicily. It will be recollected by those who heard the statements that were made last year, that Lord Minto was requested by the King of Naples to pro• pose to the Sicilians terms upon which they might consent again to return to their allegiance ; after a very consi derable time spent in conferences, Lord Minto, at the re quest of the King of Naples, went to Sicily and conveyed those terms to the Sicilians. The terms were not ac cepted by them. Lord Minto was of opinion that they might have been in prudence accepted by them; but the ground upon which they declined to accept was one on which it was not very easy to shake their determination. They said that in ancient times Sicily was a free country; that in 1812 the constitution had been reformed, and under the auspices of the British generally, and with every proof of British sympathy, and that it was part of the ' terms of the constitution then agreed upon. that the Parliament was to decide with respect to the whole internal administration, and with regard to the number of troops to be kept up in Sicily; that no foreign troops of any kind, being other than Sicilians, except those admitted by treaty, should be allowed to come into Sicily. More- over, there was an article in that constitution, that if the King of Sicily should ever reside in Naples he should name one of his sons, or one of his family at all events, to reign in Sicily. In 1816 the British Government had de clared, that though it gave no guarantee to the Si cilian constitution, it should take an interest in the wel fare of Sicily, and consider it injurious to the British name if the welfare of Sicily should be less well provided for in future than it had been. The Sicilians insisted that that constitution should be in whole restored. When Lord Minto returned to Naples he found that the King would not consent to such terms ; and there was an end of that negotiation. It was undertaken by a British Minister at the desire of the King of the Two Sicilies, as he would be called in a formal diplomatic instrument; the two parties could not agree, and that negotiation fell to the ground. Whatever might be the case as to the justification which the British Government might make for any further interference, their decision was not to interpose any further than to give any friendly advice to the Sicilians in cases in which they might ask it.—(Hear, hear.) Accordingly, when some time after an expedition was prepared at Naples for the purpose of conquering Sicily, no obstacle was interposed to the sailing of that expedition. It has been said that a large British fleet was assembled at Naples for the purpose of preventing that expedition from sailing; that is totally an error, Sir W. Parker having taken the British fleet on ac count of other questions in respect of which he thought he was entitled to ask reparation. But when that expedition, reached Messina, there took place at the close of the siege of Messina events which appeared so horrible and so inhuman in the eyes of the French Admiral, that he de termined to interfere. I need not say now what those circumstances were. There were atrocities, as I think sc both sides; the destruction of houses, of villages, and of unoffending peasants on the one side, the bombardment against a town which had ceased to resist on the other. It appeared to the French Admiral that it was impossible such a warfare could continue without an utter desolation of Sicily, and such alienation from the Neapolitan Government on the part of the Sicilians, that no final terms of agreement could arise; he therefore determined to take upon him. self to put a stop to the further progress of such a horrible warfare. After he had so determined he communicated with Sir W. Parker. Sir W. Parker had a most difficult duty to perform, but taking all the circumstances into consideration, our former friendly relations with the Sicilians, the accounts lie had received from the captain of one of her Majesty's ships then at Messina, the atrocities he heard of, and that the French Admiral was about to act, and it was important at that juncture that the two nations should act in concert, his determination was to give orders similar to those which had been given to the French Admiral. I stated last session that no orders had been given to stop the Neapolitan expedition, but that the Government reserved to itself to act in future as circumstances might dictate, and that I had perfect confidence in the discretion and judgment of Sir W. Parker. I remember the Right Hon. Gentle- man, the Member for Stamford, expressing apparently, though not in words, a concurrence with that sen timent ; and I have the same opinion still.—(Hear, hear.) He was not a man likely to be led away by passion ; he had none of that revolutionary mania by which some persons might be misled in those circumstances; he was anxious for the honour of the British flag, and anxious for the cause of humanity : and he took that proceeding upon his own respon sibility. The question, then, for the British Government was whether they should entirely disavow Sir W. Parker, whether they should tell him that he had done wrong to interpose, or whether an armistice having been established, we should take advantage of the circumstance to propose terms by which the Neapolitan Government and the Sicilian people might again be induced to agree, and this horrible warfare might not be renewed. We took the latter part of the alternative. —Meat-, hear.) We are responsible for that conduct. If it was right to allow the war to recommence, to separate the British fleet entirely from the coarse which was taken by the French Admiral, and to disavow Sir W. Parker, we have been wrong, and we have taken a course which deserves cen sure; but if, as I believe, it was the duty of the Govern ment, with respect to two countries in which they took a great interest, with respect to the King of Naples, an ally of this country, with respect to the Sicilian people, with whom we had been long connected, to endeavour to frame terms upon which both parties should agree, then, I say, we are justified in the course that we have adopted.—(Hear. ) The Hon. Gentleman seems to say that there is no negotia tion, so well is he informed upon all these subjects on which he proposes to address the Crown ; that it is a negotiation confined to England and France. Now, he is entirely mistaken in that. There have been terms stated by the Sicilians, and an answer received from Naples with nespect to them, stating some of those terms as reasonable in themselves, and such as the King would be ready to consent to, and objecting to others, and leaving the matter as one to be treated in further negotiation. The fur ther negotiation still continues. If it should end in our es tablishing permanent peace there, I think we shall have per formed a duty both to the Sovereign of Naples and the people of Sicily, and shall have rendered a service likewise to the cause of peace in Europe.—(Hear, hear.) If we are unable to procure such a result, due.suotice will be given when the armistice is to cease, and that war may begin again. But my belief is that, after what has taken place, even if that war were to be renewed, it would not be renewed in the same spirit in which it was begun.—(Hear, hear.) My opinion is that there would be, in the first place, such terms offered by the King of Naples and such orders given, that it is pro bable that that war would not be conducted in so destructive, so savage, and so desolating a manner. But with regard to all these matters, although we do not ask for congra tulation or for approbation, yet I must say that I am glad to find that during a year of great peril to the peace of Europe, the services of England have been of use to stay the ravages of war and to mitigate hostilities.—(Hear.) I believe that, standing secure ourselves, having no such con vulsions as other nations have been exposed to, I believe it was befitting this country, when she was asked, and in other cases, to offer her good offices for the purpose of removing quarrels, of which very often the ground is not very consi derable, but to which if once left to the arbitrament of war may tend to as long and as bloody contests as if the grounds of difference had been wider and more serious. —(Cheers.) With respect to the next question to which the Hon. Gentle- . man referred, namely, the expense of our military establish ments, I think he seemed naturally enough to be hardly better informed on.it tharthe is as to the -state of our foreign affairs. He seemed to suppose that we had yielded to repre sentations which had appeared in a public letter addressed to the Financial Association of Liverpool by the Hen. Mem ber for the West Riding. Now, Sir, my opinion is entirely contrary to that. I think whatever reductions or augmenta tions you might make to take, the year 1835, or any other fixed year for some time past, and to say you will square your estimates and fix your establishments according to the ex penditure of that year, would be, with great deference to the Hon. Gentleman, an extremely irrational course for any Go vernment to pursue. In the first place, it is obvious that your requirements might be very different. In the next place, any one who will look at the finance accounts, or the votes of the year, will see that there have been 50me4,000,000/. or 5,000,0001. added to our expenditure on grounds which have nothing to do with any increase to our armaments. Therefore if you take off 10,000,0001., instead of having the same establishments you had in 1835, you would have smaller establishments than in that year. Then, if you take 1835 as the standard, you must be sure that the establishments were then fixed exactly according to the exigencies of the country. I de cline altogether to adopt that priticiple. It is assumed by ' the Hon. Member for the West Riding. In the next place, our position, and what we have to furnish, is very much altered and increased since 1835. In one colony we have acquired since 1835, there were 1,800 of the infantry of the line. So that if you were to take your rule from 1835 you would have certain garrisons diminished below that year in order to supply others which had since been acquired. Per , sons engaged in manufactures, commerce, or farming never . would adopt such a principle. Suppose a man should say, " I find that while my expenditure in factories is 30,0001. a P year now, I never paid more in 1835 than 20,000/. ;" yet he might find that he had two or three new factories since that time; or that he had conducted the . business of two or three additional farms to what he did in 1835. Obviously, he would say, " That is the cause of my increased expenditure. This accounts at least for a part of it. I cannot conduct five or six establishments at the same rate I could three or four." That would be the course I am sure any man would pursue in private life; and I cannot think it wise for a Government, or Parliament, to pursue a different course, and say we shall have no reference to the service to be performed and the garrisons to be main tained, because we find in one particular year a certain number of millions sufficient for the public service, therefore exactly the same sum must be sufficient for the present year. But while I disagree with the Hon. Gentleman, and though I think there is a phrase in his letter which rather shows the wrong test he would apply to this matter, for he says that 10,000,0001. is a good sum founded on the experience of former years for the purpose of agitation, he shows clearly that he has formed his estimate not upon what the public exigencies require, but what he thinks likely to raise the most popular cry. (Cheers.) At the same time, when we had to consider the question of oar establishments, I think it was obvious we could not persevere in the course we found ourselves bound to take last year. Last year there was a sudden and formida ble convulsion in various parts of Europe, and no man could say what might be the issue of that convulsion. We did not think we should be justified, in those circumstances, in proposing to diminish our expenditure. We asked for the same number of men for the navy and the army we had asked at the commencement of the session, although we had not the ways and means sufficient for that purpose. This House supported us in that course. They declared, by large majorities, that it was not exped i ent to re d uce our military establishments. B u t w h en we ha d aga i n t o consi iquestion wa o s f u es r ti d m u a ty t s two conclusions—either to red uce t h ose est i mates t o b r ing our dr r t e h v e e them within the amount of revenue, or, on t h e o th er I x t h e i e nt g to t c h o e m e am t o e 't o n ne () of f hand, to attempt to raise the revenue to the amount of our expenditure. It was not fitting to go on another year in creasing the public debt of the country without the prospect of equalizing the expenditure. Now, the first course was evidently the best, supposing it was justifiable and practi cable. We had to consider, Ist, whether there were not many reforms that might be made, many retrenchments that might be effected without impairing the number or efficiency of our military establishments. The report of the Com mittee which sat last year upon our naval and military ex penliture—which was no proposition of mind—the House is indebted for its appointment to the Hon. Member for Mont rose—the report of that Committee stated, that with regard to the navy at least there might be many useful reforms without impairing its efficiency. ,This was one source of eco nomy. But that would not enable us to bring the revenue within the limits I have stated. We had therefore to consider whether our effective force could be reduced. Now, in considering that sub ject we had to remember that since we had been in office we had added 3,000 men to the number voted for the navy, and 5,000 to the number voted for the artillery. In considering these subjects, then, we come to the conclu sion, that in the present state of Europe, and having made these additions to our naval and military force, we might now safely make some reductions—reductions which would give us a considerable amount of saving, without, in our opinion, impairing our force below that which was necessary for the efficiency of the public service and necessary for the defence of our various colonies. Whether we have done wisely in that respect, whether the reductions we propose to make come within the principles I have stated,—whether we have carried them too far, or have not gone far enough, will be proper questions for this House to consider when the esti mates come before them. But these reductions have been contidered on the principle of what is wanted and what can be spared from the service for the present year, and they have not been taken with reference to any particular past I year, or on the plan of squaring the expenditure with that year.—( Hear, hear.) Sir, when we say that the aspect - of public affairs enables us to make these reductions, I should say that France is the most valuable friend and the most formidable foe with whom we could have to deal,—( Hear, hear.) For many years past, and under different Govern ments, it has seemed to be the object of France to increase her military armaments, and more especially to increase the strength of her naval force—a navy not commensurate with her commerce—not required, be it observed, to protect the colonies or the trade of France, but obviously a navy to be used in case of war. Sir, m y opinion was, and is, an d I so stated it last year, that if ? France is to have very great arma ments at sea, and if we allow her to go on in creas i ng h er naval strength without any proportionate increase of our own, then that in the event of any trifling difference, which if the power of the two nations seemed equal would be easily adjusted, that difference might easily lead to war between the two countries, if the war party in France could point to England as a weaker power, inferior in point of force.—(Hear, hear.) But, Sir, I am happy to find that the conduct of the Government of France is to curtail and restrict their naval and military strength, and not to con tinue the enlargement and increase of their armaments. This is one reason why we have considered it safe to recom mend no greater estimates than we propose for the present year; and I trust that, in spite of the denunciations of the proposed amendment, the various States of Europe, however they may settle their internal affairs, will, in the progress of negotiation and the process of time, come to the conclusion that war must be injurious to all the nations of Europe, and that there can be no Sufficient cause why one State should be an aggressor against another.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") If such pacific sentiments should fortunately prevail, and if each power should be left to make arrangements for its own internal constitution and good government, then I would say that the reductions of the present year may be followed in future years, and that while it would be exceedingly unwise and imprudent to make any sudden and great reductions at once, still that gradual reductions, made, in the language of the Speech from the Throne, with a " wise economy," may be a policy which we may be able to pursue, and which it will be the interest of every country in the world to !follow also.—(Cheers.) Now, Sir, I do not contend that there is not cause of anxiety in the present state of Europe. I ant far from thinking that the revolutions which took place last year have run their course—(Hear, hear)—and that every nation in which they occurred can now be said to be in a state of solid security. I rejoice as much as any man that the ancient empire of Austria, our old ally, is recovering her splendour, and is showing her strength in such a con picuous manner. Still I cannot forget that there are many questions not yet settled with regard to the internal institutions of Austria—that the question of the formation, of (what the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Disraeli) has called an empire without an Empe ror, is still in debate—and that we cannot be sure what the ultimate result of these events will be. It is also true that there may have been during last year an excess of appre hension, caused by the great events that were taking place, and by the rising up of some wild theories, pretending to found the happiness of the State and of mankind on visionary and unsound speculations, on which the happiness of no country or people can ever be founded.—(Hear, hear.) We have seen these opinions prevail in many countries to a con siderable extent, and no one can say that events may not at some unforeseen moment take an unfortunate turn for the peace and tranquillity of Europe:—(Hear, hear.) But still the time that has elapsed since the breaking out of the re volution of Februarylias made men consider both what is the value of real liberty, and what is the value of peace and order, as set against political theories, and how much may and ought to be sacrificed of what may be considered theu retical perfection, in order to obtain the advantage of that internal peace in which all reforms can alone be deli berately discussed, and gradually take their pla ce in the settled institutions of the country.—(Cheers.) No one can deny that amid many misfortunes and mistakes the foundations of the great principles which we revere have been prepared, and that those principles are likely to be perinament among the nations of Europe. I trust that the event may ultimately be equal to the expectations of the most sanguine.. But in the mean time I do appeal against those who would pass a vote of censure upon us, not by going through a minute de fence of every act of the Government, but with reference generally to what is happening arou nd us, and the present state of Europe. We have gone through a commercial con vulsion, arising from a wild spirit of speculation. Is com merce shaken to the dust, or is it true that it is again re viving, that it is assuming a heathful condition, and that it is taking its usual course, indi cat i ve o f restored prosperity? We have gone through what, with every deference to the Hon. Member for Meath, I mu s t cons id er an insurrection in Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) Th a t country h as been restored to peace—has it been by any san gu i nary mea sures?—(Cheers.) Has it been by arraying o ne c l ass aga i ns t an other?—(Cheers, and counter-cheers from th e R epea l M em bers.) Has it been by fixing upon Ireland a permanent state of civil war, which would have been worse than a transitory insurrection? Sir, I reply that it has not; and a large share of the credit is due to my Noble Friend the Viceroy of that country for his vigour and energy, and-for those rarer Qualities:of judgment, temper, and forbearance.— cCheers.) He has shown himself averse from the first to setting class against class, or inflict ing sanguinary punishment s upon t h e g uilty.—(Cheers.) I say again that this country has been menaced by th ose who, like some in other countr i es, wou ld for the sake of plunder have disturbed the wh o l e order o f society. Have they not been defeated in their m ac hi nat i ons by the power of the law alone, and at the sa me t i me dealt with by as fair and as merciful a procedure as is consistent with the Consti tution of this country?—(Hear, hear.) Sir, dur in g the past year Europe has been convulsed with revolution. Without going into the details of foreign commotion, I will ask whether this country has been involved in hostilities, or in danger of hostilities? Has n o t peace with Europe been pre served by this country,have we not shown a and with respect to other powers desire to take a course much more ho nourable to us than would h ave b een a desire to mix in the fray, and excite other pow ers to conflict and war?—(Loud cheers.) Sir, if I say the se thi ng s with truth, and admitting, as I do, that with respect to the greater portion of them, the wisdom, the prudence, and ene rgY of this mighty first honour, after Divine P r o v idence, to be given to the such a period at least de servebeen at the e th h o e y ad sh o o f ul a d ffa n i o r t s bdouring people— yet, if such has bee n th e result, n th d e em G n o e v d er n n n m t e h n e t w fir h s i t c n h ig h h as t of the session. —(The Noble Lord resumed his seat amid loud cheering.) Mr. E. B. ROCHE had read with great pain the para graphs in the Speech from the Throne relative to Ireland. The Irish poor-law had one fault—that it came essentially too late. The proposal to limit the area of taxation would have no meaning unless it were to exterminate the people. Neither would a stringent law of settlement be advisable. Ireland could not be regenerated by a poor-law. Ireland had suffered more than England from the adoption of the prin ciples of free'trade, and the depreciation in the value of pro perty in consequence of that measure entitled her to a much greater boon by way of compensation than she had yet re ceived. The question of tenure was one of the first that claimed adjustment. The grand jury tax amounted to 1,250,0001. The money levied in that tax alone would sup port the poor of Ireland in ordinary years. The I r i s h Ch urc h, the Irish fisheries, and the Irish railways, each in turn de manded the attention of the Government. Cries of " Oh, o h!" "G o on. ") After ll a ul, felv E w s o a i i -d d s , fhroofromL anxious to expr ess hi s f ee li ngs Mr. IL A. HERBERT, Mr. on the topics alluded to in her Majesty's:Speech ; b u t at t h a t Speech. w lallido.jauorudori adjournment mi t s h ien e nnt n w i o g fa h st t ht h oo eHt take ohuo p l a ce he would tak e t h at opportu suog. it would be better a t w t a i move eo n tahe d , the nasitoyoofwshtaattinv,g,shsiosmopitinteiodnin the s o much 011 h On lookin g t o the Speech he could not fi n d that any portion of the recommen dations of the popular M e mbers on that most import an t su bj ec t —the inequality and b ur d e ns of tax a tion — had been attended to. He had been as sur ed last year that the G overnmen t iwoitiruoldduccoonstioderremduovriongthtaht i n equality and re li eve those e re cess what m easures they could bur dens, but so far from their having done so, the question was not even mooted.—( Hear, bear.) He complains-d of that as a greht omission. The Hon. Member for Buckinghamshire ( Mr. Disraeli) never spoke but to interest and instruct the House, but the greatest portion of his speech was devoted to the while directed th to foreign policy o f th e c ountry, into which he (M r. H ume ) did not feel disposed to follow him. He would rat h er put i n a claim on the part of the people of England, for h e th oug ht s Ministers were s they were ne glecting the interests of the country at home. He e attention of of of he o r the ll r laj s e t s a ty te ' asked the Government whether they intended to meet the wishes of the people, and have an investigation into the state of the taxation of the country ? — (Hear, hear.) For his part, he did not think the House would be warranted any I longer in passing estimates which exceeded the income of s theicountry The Honourable Member for Buckingham had launched out at large into the question of his re ciprocity. Ile (Mr. Hume) was glad to hear protection was dead—(Hear, hear)—and that there would be no foolish attempts to revive it. But he would have preferred hearing the Honourable Member say whether he was prepared to maintain the present amount of taxation at a time when the effect of the corn-laws had lowered prices, and caused a reduction in the profits of the farmer.—( Hear, hear.) If some measures were not taken in that direction they would soon have agricultural discontent along with the discontent of the commercial classes. — (Cheers from the Opposition.) Then, why did not those gentlemen who cheered stand up and ask for relief to the farmer, for it was vain for them to think of restoring artifi cial protection ?—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Buckingham protested against any further concessions to the popular power of the country. He (Mr. Hume), with reference to that protest, wished to ask her Majesty's Minis ters whether they intended to take their stand upon the pre sent state of popular representation, and to refuse all conces sion on the subject?—( Hear, hear.) If they did so they would continue that agitation which had made the name of Ch artist odious to the country. But let the House recollect that though the conduct of the Chartists had deserved odium, the principles for which they contended were entitled to the sup•• port of every one who regarded the principles of the Con stitution. The next question of importance on which he wished the Government to state their views related to the management of their colonies. The proceedings which had taken place in some of our possessions lately had been dis graceful.—(Cheers.) Not one of the acts which had driven the Americans to rebellion had been characterized by half the atrocity and tyranny of the arbitrary proceedings which had taken place in British Guiana and Ceylon.—(Hear, hear.) He considered that the Noble Lord at the head of the colonies had forfeited every claim to support—(Cheers) —and that her Majesty's Government should at once remove him.—(Cheers.) On all these points he would wish to hear some statement from the Government before he voted the Address to her Majesty.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. A. STAFFORD—I move that the House do now ad journ.—(" Oh, oh !" and cries of " Hear, hear.") The question having been put, Lord J. RUSSELL said he did not oppose the adjourn ment if the Hon. Member wished for it; but he certainly had expected that before the House rose that night the first amendment would have been disposed of.— (Hear, hear.) He proposed, therefore, that the House should divide on the first amendment then, and take ,the second to-mor row.—(Hear, hear.) Colonel SIBTHORP thought there should be ample:oppor tunity given for discussing the amendment. Sir R. H. INGLIS supported the proposal of the Noble Lord. _ _ _ _ Mr. DISRAELI—But perhaps the Hon. Member for Meath does not wish to divide. Mr. GRATTAN (with energy)—Certainly, Sir, I will di vide.—(Cheers and laughter.) Mr. A. STAFFORD withdrew his motion for adjourn. ment, and The galleries were cleared for a division, when there appeared— For Mr. Grattan's amendment • 12 Against it Majority against it ~ The debate on Mr. Disraeli's amendment was adjourned till to-day. The House adjourned at Half-put Twelve. HOUSE OF LORDS, Feb. 1. The anticipated eventful session of 1849 was opened to day, by her Majesty, with the accustomed pomp. Notwith standing the murky and heavy atmosphere without, the interior of the House of Lords, owing to the beauty of the ladies, the brilliancy of their attire, the colours and rays of which were of every hue that the eye can conceive, and being most tastefully, almost artistically, interspersed, had a most pleasing effect. The appearance of the interior of the House repelled the haziness that, spite of the coloured windows, which, with the exception of three, have been completed, and the gilt and glitter, had found its way into the interior of the edifice. It struck us that the general appearance of the House was more imposing,more sublimely grand, and altogether realised more the idea of a senate-house, than during any former period we have viewed it. Possibly this may be at tributed to the effect of the new colouring introduced, and the consequent softening of the glarish aspect so much re buked, or to the wearing off of the newness of the decorations of the edifice. At any rate, the blending of the colouring of the stained windows, with the gilding and tinsel, improved and heightened the general effect. The attendance of Peeresses and ladies was greater than on any former occasion within our remembrance—every avail able seat, whether in the body of the House, or in the gal leries being occupied. No additions to the cartoons have been made since the close of last session. The members of the corps diplomatique occupied seats at the back of the Bishops' Bench. The attendance of the re presentatives of foreign Courts was very large. The entrance of the newly-appointed Russian Ambassador caused quite a sensation among his brethren. The representative of the Raja of Sattara, Rungo Bapojee, occupied a seat in the gallery. Among the Peers who arrived early may be specified— the Duke of Wellington, who appeared somewhat more feeble than usual, the Earl of Faversham, the Archbishop of Canterbury, the Archbishop of Dublin, the Earl Fitzwilliam, the Duke of Argyle, the Bishop of London, Earl Nelson, the Earl of Ellesmere, &c. The Earl of Minto, attired in his official costume, was the first Minister that entered the House. Earl Grey and the Marquis of Clanricarde were the next arrivals. The Marquis of Lansdowne next arrived in his official costume. The Lord Chancellor took his seat on the Woolsack at Half-past One o'clock. The Judges present were Lord Denman, the Chief Baron, Barons Parke, Platt, Rolfe; Justices Pattison, Wightman, Williams. The Duke of Cambridge arrived at a quarter to one. At a quarter past two a flourish of the heralds' trumpets and a salvo of artillery announced the arrival of the Queen at the House. Having robed, her Majesty, attended by Prince Albert and the officers and ladies of her household, took her seat on the throne at twenty minutes after two o'clock. Her Majesty, having commanded the assembly to be seated, directed the Usher of the Black Rod to summon the Mem bers of the House of Commons. The Speaker, attired' in his robes, shortly after appeared at the bar, accompanied by about 100 of the Members, who, in entering, made much noana ' and oatteed many smiles, in their eagerness to get close to the bar. The Lord Chancellor then handed the Speech to her Majesty. The Queen then, in a beautifully clear voice, read the following Speech from the Throne : MT LORDS AND GENTLEMEN— The period being arrived at which the business of Parliament is usually resumed, I have called yeutogether for the discharge of your important duties. It is satisfactory to me to be enabled to state, that both in the north and in the south of Europe the contending parties have ,consented to a suspension of arms, for the purpose: of negotiating terms of peace The hostilities carried on in the island of Sicily were attended with circumstances so revolting that the British and French ad mirals were impelled, by motives of humanity, to interpose and to stop the further effusion of blood. I have availed myself of the interval thus obtained:to propose, in conjunction with France, to the King of Naples, an arrangement calculated to produce a permanent settlement of affairs in Sicily. The negotiation on these matters is still pending, It has been my anxious endeavour, in offering my good offices to the various contending Powers, to prevent the extension of the calamities of war, and to lay the foundations for lasting and ho noutable peace. It is my contant clusire;tomaintain with all foreign States the most friendly relations. As soon as the interests of the public service will permit, I shall direct the papers connected with these transactions to be laid before you. A rebellion of a formidable character has broken out in the Pun raub, and the Governor-General of India has been compelled, for the preservation of the peace of the country, to assemble a consi derable force, which is now engaged in military operations against the insurgents. But the tranquillity of British India has not been affected by these unprovoked disturbances. I again commend to your attention the restrictions imposed en commerce by the navigation-laws. If you shall find that these laws arc in whole or in part unnecessary for the maintenance of our ma ritime power, while they fetter trade and industry, yen will no doubt deem it right to repeal or modify their provisions. GENTLEMEN OF TIM HOUSE OF COBUKONJ-- I have directed the estimates for the service of the year to be laid before you ; they will be framed with the most anxious atten tion to a wise economy. The present aspect of affairs has enabled me to make large reduc tions upon the estimates of last year. Mr Loans AND GENTLEMEN— I observe, with satisfaction, that this portion of the United King dom has remained tranquil amidst the convulsions which have disturbed so many parts of Eurooe. The insurrection in Ireland has not been renewed, but a spirit of disaffection stills exists; and am compelled, to my great regret, to ask for a continuance, for a limited time, of those powers which, in the last session, you deemed necessary for the preservation of the public tranquillity. I have great satisfaction in stating that commerce is reviving from those shocks which, at the commencement of last session, I had to deplore. The condition of the mant:fActuring districts is likewise more encouraging than it has been for a considerable period. It is also gratifying to me to observe that the state of the revenue is one of progressive improvement. I have to lament, however, that another failure in the potato crop has caused very severe distress In some parts of Ireland. The operation of the laws for the relief of the poor in Ireland will properly be a subject of your inquiry, and any measures by which those laws may be beneficially amended and the condition of the people may be improvel will receive my cordial assent. It is with pride and thankfulness that I advert to the 'loyal spirit of my people, and that attachment to our institutions which has ani mated them during a period of commercial ditliculty, defLcient pro duction of food, and political revolution. I look to the protection of Almighty God far favoar in our con tinued progress, and I trust that you will assist me in upholding the fabric of the Constitution, founded as it is upon the principles of free dom and of justice. Her Majesty and suite then retired. Their Lordships then adjourned during pleasure. Their Lordships reassembled at Five o'clock. SELECT VESTRIES BILL. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE introduced the Select Vestries Bill, which was read a first time. nit QUEEN'S SPEECH. Tht LORD CHANCELLOR then read her Majesty's Speech. ADDRESS. Earl BRUCE then rose to move the Address in answer to her Majesty's most gracious Speech from the throne. He requested the indulgence of their Lordships in moving the Address in answer to her Majesty's most gracious Speech, as he had never before bad the honour, of addressing their Lordships. He would willingly have ab stained from making any observations had he not considered that such a course would be dis respectful to their Lordships. Her Majesty had been gra. ciously pleased to inform them that negotiations were ex isting with the Northern and Southern States of Europe, which were in a state of war. With regard to Sicily, this country must always feel a great interest in the well-being of that island, and he was rejoiced to hear that the French and English admirals had interfered to prevent the perpetration of atrocities in that Island which were horrifying even to those admirals who had been used to the horrors of warfare. Negotiations were now in prog ress for the pacifi cation of that island, and he trusted that no . observa would be made on that subject whichhme ig n h e t go h t a ia v t eh ion t s e . effect of interrupting the cours e of those Ile rejoiced to find that the estimattiensenwtouthldeybefounredductehde. Whilst in every country of the co expenses were increasing and_ the n revenue diminish ing, in this country they was increasing they were mfanbnout to decrease their expen necessary that no reduction diture. Nevertheless, it should be proposed whic h would w reduce the effective force of defence of the country, and he was satisfied that the Govern ment would propose n o such reduction. Our army for the most part was employed in the protection of our colonial empire, and it was impossible to propose any great reduc tion in an army employed to prote9t colonies aitugted • • • FEBRUAILY 2, 1849. eight thousand miles - from the mother country, so long as we maintained our colonies no great reduction could take place in our army expenditure ; and he trusted that whatever reduction might take place in the army, none would take place in the artillery of this country. He thought, however, that no op portunity should be lost in making every reduction possible in the army; and he was rejoiced to perceive a desire, in a neighbouring country, to make a reduction in the number of their troops. Twelve months since the state of trade was deplorable. A rapid improvement had recently taken place and that improvement would have been still more rapid had it not been for the state of affairs on the Con tinent and in Ireland. The revenue had increased during the last year to the extent of 722,0001., and he believed there was every prospect that such improve ment would go en rapidly increasing. He was happy to say that the allusion to Ireland in the Speech from the Throne had not been of so unsatisfactory a nature as it had been on a former occasion. Last year a rebellion had been ap prehended. That rebellion had now been crushed. Thanks to the extraordinary powers which had been granted to the Lord-Lieutenant, and to the energy, discretion, and firmness with which the Lord-Lieutenant had exercised those powers.—(Cheers.) Her Majesty's Government had wished for a continuance of those powers, and he humbly submitted that as those powers had been found sufficient to put down rebellion, they would be continued to enable the Lord- Lieutenant to preserve the peace and tranquillity of Ireland. Those well disposed persons who were desirous of im proving the condition of Ireland had no opportunity of doing so unless peace and tranquillity were established in that country, and if the Noble Lord at the head of the Government of Ireland deemed the continuance of those powers necessary to secure the tranquillity of that country, he trusted that their Lordships would not he sitate to endow his Lordship with those powers which had been already so beneficially exercised. He could not but speak with the utmost regret of those pub lic men of which this country has only just been deprived. Of one of those he would speak with the greatest respect, who had, in the providence of God, been removed front among them, one whose appearance was:at all times heartily wel comed by this House, and whose departure was a severe loss to the country. Nor could he refrain from alluding to another gentleman, who was also a distinguished Member of the Legislature, though he belonged to the other House of Parliament, and whose untimely death all would lament.— (Hear, hear.) He could not, however, while passingetrom this painful topic, help congratulating their Lord ships on the blessings which they enjoyed under the:ex istence of a contitutional monarchy, blessings which have been rendered apparent in the promotion of the general welfare of the community, the loyalty of the people, and the honour of the Sovereign.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord concluded by reading a copy of the Address, which was, as usual, a repetition, in other terms, of the Speech. Lord BATEMAN seconded the Address. Lord BROUGHAM, in rising to address their Lordships, regretted that the assent which he was desirous of giving to the terms of the Speech from the Throne and the senti ments which had fallen from his Noble Friend in moving the Address in reply to the Speech, was not altogether so unquailified as he could wish. He greatly feared that, in the fair representation of manufacturing and commercial prosperity of the country, his Noble Friends in the Govern ment and their equally noble supporters had made some slight mistake in the assumption of again of 800,0001. at the pre sent moment in the revenue, and in expressing an opinion that the revenue would progress in amount for some time in the future. He applauded all the measures which his Noble Friends en the other side of the House had taken, but he feared that the fairy aspect of things would lose something of its beauty, when he reminded their Lordships that this gain of 800,0001. would absolutely cease this very day; for it so happened that this same 800,000/, was last year received for the duties on corn, which duties had now altogether been virtually done away. And while alluding to this measure of free trade, he as an humble but zealous friend of that much-abused principle of free trade, a principle to which he was so addicted, that he had most reluctantly given his adhesion to the unconstitutional, and he might say, almost unlawful means by which it was carried into effect. One subject which was referred to in terms of great gratulation in her Majesty's Speeeh was the proposed large reduction in the estimates. An agitation had been commenced in this country, under very unhappy auspices, with very questionable mo tives, and for very questionable objects, commencing in the West Riding of Yorkshire—(A laugh)—passing over the county palatine of Lancaster, enthroned—as its metropolis of agitation—in the town of Liverpool, with branches, subor dinate capitals of agitation, in Manchester and elsewhere, and supported by the Chartist, or Radical, and pseudo economical press of the metropolis. He found that a crusade was now commenced against the landed interest ; and, as he had from a the beginning been the avowed, and open, and zealous, and conscientious friend of free trade, he felt it to be incumbent upon him to take his stand in the out set against the agitation which had been begun against the landed interest. They were told that it was the bounden duty of Pailiament to alter the system of finance in two ma terial particulars. The one was by a reduction of the army and navy ; the other, which was the main object of the agi tation to which he had referred was, that the revenue should be raised upon totally different principles to those upon which it was now obtained. It was said that the aristocracy of the country, in both Houses of Parliament, had resolved to ease themselves of all burdens by throwing them upon the trad ing community—that there was no tax upon succession to landed property, while there was a heavy tax upon succes sion to personal property. It was said that of 2,000,0001. a year received from legacy duty, 1,700,0001. was derived from personal property ; and they were told that if a man died leaving personal property of the value of 20,0001. the aristocracy required that 2,000/. should be paid for legacy duty. The aristocracy did no such thing. They only ordered that if the property was given to a stranger this amount should be paid; if it was given to a wife nothing at all was required; if to a child, 1 per cent. ; and if to relestions, 2,8, or 4 per cent. But, supposing a man invested 20,000/. in land, had he no burdens to bear? He had to pay to the land-tax, which amounted to 1,900,0001. a year; to church-rates, which amounted to 500,000/. a year; to highway-rates, 1,150,000/. a year; and to the poor and road rates, and other burdens of the same sort, 8,150,000/. a year. It appeared from the returns which he had recently consulted, that a man with 800/. - a year paid, in the course of 20 years, 1,6001., while a person of equal wealth in personal property paid only 3001. or 400/. within an equal period of time. In the reign of William and Mary personal property paid sixteen times as much as it did at present, and there had ever since been a steady and continuous reduction of the charges to which per sonal property was liable. But then some of those gentle men denied that the land paid the great bulk of the poor rates, for they told the world that they paid poor-rates upon their factories. What of that? They paid as landowners. Suppose the rent of a factory to be 1,000/. a year, and the profits made in that factory to be 3 0 , 0 00/. a year, ich sum formed the basis on which the poor-rates were calculated? Most assuredly the 1,0001. a year. These manufacturers perhaps did not tell the world that they manufactured other things besides cotton twist; but every one who knew any thing of them well knew that they manufactured paupers— (Hear, hear.) Where the land produced one pauper,-manu factures created half a dozen. The objects of the gentlemen who were engaged in the present agitation were unquestiou able ; but their motives were doubtful —he doubted their good faith, and he doubted their wisdom, most especially when they insisted upon the reduction of the army and the navy. His Noble and Illustrious Friend who then sat at the table (the Duke of Wel lington) always desired to reduce the army till it came with ha the smallest possible limits that were necessary for the defence of our honour and our possessions. Now, looking at the state of Europe, he saw no reason whatever for saying that any large reductions in the army or the navy could be safely effected. Since the last meeting of Parliament there was every reason to feel that the defences of the country ought to be strengthened. If ho began by turning towards the north, and then carried his view southwards from Schleswig-Holstein -to the foot of the boot of Italy, he saw nothing but grounds for apprehending war. Whether he looked at Hungary, Croatia, Vienna, Piedmont, Venice, or Sicily, he saw nothing calculated to relieve that ap prehension. The Speech from the Throne stated that there had been, a suspension of hostilities. There had been, as he thought, not exactly a suspension of hostilities, but rather a suspension of warlike operations. But how had that suspension been effected? There had, indeed, been a complete suspension, but it was for this reason—that Charles Albert had been routed and driven from one end of Italy to the other. In thus briefly adverting to the affairs of Aus tria, and glancing at the condition of Italy, he wished dis tinctly to state that he felt the strongest possible desire to do all that in him lay to promote a good understanding be tween this country and France; and he gave credit to the Noble Lord at the head of Foreign Affairs in this country for the skill and address that he had shown, and the useful influence which he had exercised in preventing steps being taken prematurely on the part of France with reference to Italy. In his opinion there could not be a greater delusion than to suppose that all this was matter of course—that it was all down-hill work. He knew as well as any man how true it was that France was crippled in her resources—that her Government was overwhelmed with embarrassments, but did it therefore follow that she had no mind for war? Those who thought so knew nothing of the state of France—they were profoundly ignorant of the state of France who said so. Feance might not on this or that particular day declare war; hut still her Government might be driven by popular feelings to do things which might render war inevitable. Such things had been heard of before now as a general declaration of war against all crowned heads, and an assur ance of support to all nations who might rise in opposition to their rulers. But with respect to France the questionwas, would the present Government last—would the existing peace remain unbroken ? Within the last three weeks he had heard a member of the Late Provisional Government in France say, that so far from there being any stability in the present state of things in France, there was not a Republican to be found in the whole country, therefore no one could attempt to deny the possibility of restoration giving peace to France and to Eu rope. That doubtless would come sooner or later, but it might be long before it came, and such was the extent of the self-conceit of mankind, such the nature and amount of human frailty, that it became no easy matter to induce a nation to retrace its footsteps, and much time might elapse before such a consummation could be brought about, L them only look at the late Presidential election , villi et F h would perhaps give them some idea of the strengtheofpeareti!es in that country. One-third, or one quarter, of those_N!!! n e ' returned Louis Napoleon voted also in favour 9fLßedra-atqwu or Respell. They were supporters of the Republique f the same. Rouge, the the Jacobin Republic; they r ratter as the men of 1792, '93, and °tshtincyhcapnoilidt Sr cared nothing for the state of the financ s e • and wipe,e.cf the to assignats ; they could use the _eg acorns national debt, and so go to ev ogrgtheet Then let ar i n e s i p f . to e h n L r e o u ro i d t l i ds n h i n P t Vi etr ' a r e r t ies, earlier Republicans. that, with respect to the mode o the French were very of 50,000, quitted the Francis different from the English. Com petent soldiers, to the number army every year• e 50,000 men in one month than and entered into civil life. The Peench could snore easily raise to six months. Her system was we could raise 10,0 from ours, and therefore we had no sec uritv w h o ll y differrt sof wa r, however anxious the Got Tern against the n merits of bath countries might be to avert such a cala mitv rho e, 0 m idst of these dangers, w N e verthelese , in ought still to niabetamm our ancient alliances; we 9ught to comfor I. our allies in their distress, and we should never avail our: ;elves of their misfortunes —especially England was bound not to forget her ancient alliance with eaustrie. Aud now as to German policy—of that he might lay that a more cot repli cated subject did not exist. There was a hope that there a great western empire might have been formed, but he entertained grave apprehensions that that hope was now at au end. In the Speech which they had that day heard from the Throne something had b een sa i d of Ireland; he tegeed as to the necessity of measures, and strong measures, for the mahltellealce of peace in I re l an d . He wished to continute the new law for some time longer in Ireland, but he earnestly wished Coat in giving laws to Ireland they could give to , that country • the inestimable benefit of lawyers. Let their Lord ships onl y think of putt i ng 15 men on their trial for an offence , sgaiust a new Act of Parliament without se sting forth the statute which they had violated. It was said. that the Irish. Attorney -General was an equity lawyer, butt murely even in 'the equity courts it was necessary to set fort ta the charges against any person accused. But if the law o !Beers of the Czown in Ireland.had shown too little leainipg i 9 one case, they had shown too much in another of those State prosecutions, for on the failure of a demurrer in a recent case tried at Dublin they had prayed for immediate judgment against the prisoner. This was to hang a man because his special pleader mistook the law.—(A laugh.) He thought her Majesty's Ministers had shown a wise discretion in not singing any lo pceans upon what had happened in the Punjaub, and he could have wished that the general officer in command of our forces there had evinced the same forbearance. When an officer in high command, copying the example of Lord Nelson, ,began his dispatch with " It has pleased Almighty God to bless her Majesty's arms with victory," it should be a success so great that there should be no doubt about it. He trusted that it would please Divine Providence to enable our arms in India to turn to good account, at any rate, what had been done, so as to lead to the pacification of the Indian peninsula. It was a subject of congratulation that the money and commercial crisis was entirely over, and what they had to hope for was a continuance and realisation of the cheering commercial prospect at present before them. He could only trust that when that prosperity came our merchants and manufacturers would not forget the laws of those cycles of alternate pros ' parity and distress which succeeded each other with such un failing regularity, and that it would be found that the wis dom of our fellow -countrymen in the commercial and specu lative classes would be improved by such repeated experi ence as they had of the miseries of over-trading.—(Hear.) Lord BEAUMONT agreed with the Noble and 'Learned Lord in thinking it commendable on the part of her Majesty's Ministers to preserve a good understanding with France, and by this means to prevent a war with that country, and a general war with Europe, but le could not adopt tliw doc trine that the Noble and Learned Lord had introduced, that it was the duty of this country to attach itself exclusively to the policy of Austria because Austria was opposing her in terest to that of France; and the Noble and Learned Lord's policy was, therefore, a policy of contradiction. He must also express his dissent from the doctrine laid down, that- it was our duty to abstain from interference on the Sicilian question. It; fas many moderate politicians asserted, we ought to abide by the treaties into which this country-had entered, then we ought to insist on a total separation of Sicily and Naples. It was incorrect to say that the cases of Sicily and Ireland were similar. .Sicily had been a separate kingdom for several centuries, enjoying a distinct constitution and legislation, and being separated again and again from Naples in the person of the Crown. He happened to have in his hand a copy of an article in the treaty, in which it was enacted that should the 'King of Sicily recover his Neapolitan kingdoms, or acquire any other kingdom, the kingdom of Sicily should be granted to his eldest son. In 1814 we bound ourselves to see these very principles carried out, and the Noble Lord proceeded to read the copy of a letter from Sir W. A'Court, the 'Bri tish Ambassador, declaring that England undertook to be the protectress and supporter of that treaty. He would rather charge the Government with not going far enough in their Sicilian interference than with having gone too far, and with not having carried out, as they were bound to do, the treaty of 1812. He was surprised that the French and English admirals should be blamed for their interposition at Messina. They did not interfere until the battle was over. The town having yielded, and the Sicilian troops having been withdrawn, old men, women, and chil dren were alone in the streets. Yet for eight long hours did the barbarous Neapolitan bombard 'the town of Mes sina, and he afterwards loosed his savage hordes ag a i ns t the devoted city. The women and children were then left to the wild savagery of the soldiers, and the hepeless and helpless Messinese had no means of escape from their brutality. It was then that the admirals interfered. They did not stop the military operations against the city; they only interposed to cause the cessation of the massacre within the city. He agreed in thinking that great ability . must have been displayed by our Foreign office in preventing the interference of France south of the Alps. If the influence of Great Britain had been on the side of absolutism in Italy, no G-overnmentiAn France could have prevented the French nation from joining the Milanese in their revolution against Vienna. He trusted that in the negotiations which were at present going On the vain and impossible idea of establishing an Austnan‘Govem ment under an Austrian Archduke, or of preserving anything like an Austrian province in Italy, would be altogether aba,n doned. The Earl of WINCHILSEA believed, that if the recom mendation of that part of her Majesty's Speech which re ferred to a reduction of our military and naval force were agreed to, it would be'fatal to the interests of the country.— (Hear, hear.) There were two interests in the country which at present stood in a fearful position. He referred to the co lonial interest and the agricultural interest.—(Hear, hear.) The prosperity of the colonies had been gradually declining, and he feared that before many months they would have the landed interest of this country in a not less distressing state. When he looked at the state of Europe, it sounded like na tional insanity on the part of England to agree to the reduc tion of a single man either in the army or the navy. After a few words in explanation from Lord Buouarram. Lord STANLEY said,—My Lords, I must say did ex pect, that after the able and powerful speech addressed to your Lordships, immediately after those of the Noble Mover and Seconder of the Address, by my Noble and Learned Friend near me, some one of her Majesty's Ministers would have felt it to be his duty to offer some observations upon those topics most important in substance, and so eloquently expressed by my Noble Friend in commenting on various portions of the Speech which has been read to us from the Throne; but, my Lords, I could fain believe that such is the simplicity of mind of her Majesty's Ministers— such the consumthate art of my Noble and Learned Friend—that they are actually under the impression that the observations which he made upon their foreign policy were really intended to be of a laudatory character ; that he had expressed his most entire approbation of that which they have done, and had the most perfect con fidence in that which they intended to do.— (A laugh.) The Noble Marquis appears to assent to the belieL--(A laugh.) My Lords, there is nothing more painful, no thing snore irksome, than after some very good joke has let 3en made to find one so obtuse as not to see the point of it, and te be obliged labouriously to explain it to him,"Don't you see that this was nothing but a joke, that it was not in earnest?' and then for him to discover that he was quite mistaken. -(A laugh.) To my mind that certainly appeared! to bo very much the character of the observations addressed to the Go vernment by my Noble Friend on their foreign policy; and I am much mistaken if, when my Noble Friend declared he had no doubt that when the papers were produced it would be found that the Government had [in all eases most sedulously respected the obligations of trea ties, had most sedulously, cauti ou sly, an d e,scrupu lously abstained from interfering in the slightest degree in the internal domestic aflairs of other countries; above all, that they had repudiated the :idea of the nationality and independence of Italy, that they had given no countenance to those persons who, putting forward the most unfounded pretensions, had sought to get rid of well founded pretensions to dominion; and that most of all, they had sedulously and carefully abstained from giving to our most ancient and faithful ally, Austria, the slightest reason fur supposing that one hair's breadth they would. have deviated from those obligations to which they were bound by treaties. I say I am much mistaken if my Noble Friend does not already see, in his own mind, and feel that sue prise, which I have no doubt he would most eloquently expr ens or. the pro duction of those papers, when he ascertains that the course of the Government has been most materially at variance with the course which he says he presumes it to De impos sible for them not to have followed.—( Hear.) For my own part, I am at all times most unwilling to interfere by any ob servations, still more by any amendment, in that unanimity . which I think, under ordinary circumstances, is most de sirable in tendering to the Throne, on a Speech from her Majesty, the expression of loyalty on our part, and the re spectful reception of the observations which it pleased her Majesty to make ; and it has generally been the policy of all Governments—and especially I should have thought it would have been the policy of a Government which has been, as I think it must be admitted, treated with. no ordinary forbearance during the whole tenure of their ofilc-1., by their political opponents—(hear)—to whom m ore than usual allowance has been made for difficulties in rhie.i they were placed, the magnitude of which we did not. disguise from ourselves or the country, and the whole of which were ad mitted were not of their own seeking—l should have thought that a Government so situated would have been careful to abstain, in a Speech which the advisers of the Crown were to deliver, from every statement which could. provoke cavil, from every observation that could lead to controversy— above all, from every representation of the state of the country which could bear upon the face of it the character of exaggeration, not to say misrepresentation.--(Hear.) And yet, my Lords, when I look at this Speech, unsatisfactory as 1 find it from first to last, I hardly find a paragraph which is not open to hostile comment.—(Hear, hear.) 1 hardly find a statement which does not give, to my- judgment, an incorrect view of that which it professes to represent. lam at an entire loss to reconcile the conclusions to which that Speech in some cases comes with the premises which that Speech lays down, and with what is in the knowledge and experience of every one of your Lordships; and above all, in my judgment, it does greatly exaggerate that which the Government appears to be pleased to consider, and which my Noble Friend who opened this discussion with consider able ability, declared openly, in his judgment to beAlth, theougia Pre sent prosperity of the country.—(Hear, hear.) there may be some slight amendment in the commercial it appeared interests and the state of the revenue, at the commencement of the last s essions r,, to may be some trifling improvement 4 in d one subj P ect for con whatever I turn, I am at a loss, to our foreign relations or as ws .lth ec ou t fh ye there of this e th he is ir . fr np i et e e c:: ex gratulation, either in the state of ..c _ ._4near, hear.) in the state of our domestic Pon Y coundlitrewhillaes had t he power of her Majesty's Parliament it has not been in the and ordinary paragraph, Ministers to introduce that usualefrom all foreign Powers as- For the first time since I have the honour of a seat in d nationsi s t urb e d h , a t v h e at b t e h en e I can cordially concur. I " That she continues to rice • of grateful pride that ivtiiere”—Crlear, hear.) There .expression the a su re ra p n ar ces ts o o all be en other u cordially, concur tranquillity of this ,_ this country, severely as it was loyalty o f t h e peOpt.. stood the tria , w tried, has domestic dissensions; an dl . rejoice that convulsed wit h .on of this Speech her Majesty' at the c°llclusi tainly through a very 3Govern ment, though cent . singular expres sion d to our contin • w ith regarcontinued Progress, calls upon 8101 1 r.eraships, and I know that y your ..-- dto that call, and e our Lordshs will the respon Null aid her Majesty the utmost of our power in upholding and maintaining the as is fa b r i c of the Constituti on , foundedit uppon the principles of f ree d om and of justice. With those observations, and to those callssure that every one of your Lordships upon us, am will cordially concur. I am grateful to her Majesty's Ministers for another announcement in an early part of the Speech, in which her Majesty declares, not that the receives assurances of friendly relations from all foreign powers, but that it is the constant desire of her Ma jesty to maintain with all foreign states the most friendly re lations. lam deeply grateful to her Majesty's Ministers for this general declaration of their . policy, for it removes from my eyes, ai;d 1 hope it will remove from the eyes of your Lordships, a misapprehension that must naturally arise to those who leek net at the conduct of the throne, but the ad visers of the throne—that the constant desire of those ad visers was not to maintain friendly relations with other powers, but by constant uncalled for and mischievous inter terference to embroil ourselves in the affairs of every country in Europe. I ask the Government to tell me from what country in Europe they would venture to insert in the Speech a uecleration that they could rely with confidence on the friendly feelings of the Sovereign of that country?--(Hear,t hear.) Have you renewed your diplomatic relation. Courtwih the Court of Spain?—(Hear.) With regard to that what is the state of our relations? You have mast unwisely through your Minister, interfered in tne • t er nal administra tion and affairs of that country.—(Hear.) Tb a t offence has been visited by the Government of t hat c ountry upon our as was the Minister in a manner so offensive, inform a ti o n we no man in your great provocation given by the British Minister, we possess, could Lordships' House, with the te rnment of Spain was justified stand up and say that the Gore , e i however much the magni in the course they had pursue alliated it. But the state of tude of the offence might have P. has our Minister been ignominiously affairs in Spain is this—) aid you have tacitly and quietly ac driven from Madrid, nit which the Spanish dovenirnent quiesced in the ins* hoar. pan D . e 4elear, ear. o you entertain have put upon yotl. . ale the king 4.Niaplea? Do you outer friendly relations w ~~. U