The Sun. — London, England, 1820-02-22 00:00:00

Ause i 11 .y to . Vel a Of ort' 0 Os, on' !r oe for Jec• ,;it 10A: did ,ved ;111( 1 E~ eZ ~ ~,r~ r a" iolo ciii I l icll ', 6i r ot. 1101 1) [IC 10 4 lIFY 10 4 th e :►NI4 il oSt , 0 1 ,i' P "r" , tbg Vl" at tS' V I tiOt 'ee l/ csta ti t It be' ct it of it 4 sel, a al :11..refore tie - could sce:l 4 ,9 objection to th e ssu~e. Lord Casmtar:Aotf,. in explanation, showed 1 61( the present was a stronger measure than had 4 t'en•previously introduced where the object was ‘cfsuspend the issuing of Writs, Lord J. Rinses-L. contended, that if new Writs vere issued, it would obviously make in favour of the Boroughs, and Ise therefore felt it to be his duty to press the present Hill, and to pursue to the utmost the corruption that had been proved against them. The practical inconveniences that 'attached to the Bill, he maintained, had been con *iderably exaggerated by (hose who opposed it. The Borough of Batnstaple, from the time that Sir M. Lopcz hart been declared not duly elected, Iliad been, in effect, placed in the saute situation 1 ,.. 4 whirh it was proposed to place the other 'llorouglis during the dissolution of Parliament. binee 1818, iteconsuqueuce of the suspension of the issuing of the Writ, that Borongh (Barn -1"Ple) had had but one e ffi cient Member in the r o use. The time for which it was propos "4l that the issuing of the writ should be sus ))ended now, was much shorter than that for which the writ for Barnstaple was suspended tefore. They had very good reasons for he ietring that a new Parliament would meet quicker i liter the dissolution, now at hand, than they a right to expect that it would when the Douse separated last July. Having taken a brief view of the Shattesbury case, he insisted that the only way effectually to remedy the evil r outplained of was, to take the elective franchise trom those close Boroughs in which it had been au corruptly trsetl, and trauster it to some wore - PoPtilou s place. While these continued to exist, and contained bat a few deco - its, persons, as they +k n ew from experience, would a lways be found uold enough to bribe and corrupt them. He did .110 t think that all their sympathy ought to he re ;serveitl for Sir M. Lopez. A poor ignorant eke !°r who received a bribe, was frequently sub 4teted to a long imprisonment. The party tempt tug him (like Sir M. Lopez) bad not the same rtense to plead on account of ignorance. Of Sir !I. Lopez he woeid say no more, and to another in dividual, conv i cte d o f the same practices, be v v . ° O l4 only apply the we ll-k nown line fr om a 74 .14‘41 poet— " Rara axis in terra nigro Cygno.' After a f ew words how Mr. BERNALL, the Bill w a g lead a second time and committed for t0..430tr0w, ..430trow, MUTINY BILL LOlll P ALMERSTON b roug h t i n a Bill t o .• Otte the nitinv Bill in force 6;1 the 25th June, nieh was read a first and second time, and or .tlered to be commited to-morlow. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that the House should resolve itself into a Com -I.llittee of Supply, and the King's Message and Ve Ar m y Estimates wete ordered to be referred ° the Committee. • THE QUEEN. On the question that the Speaker should leave the Chair being put, $ Mr, Hume said, before the Speaker left she he was anxious to obtain some inform on a subject, respecting which he had put ~ ,s oon to the Noble Lord opposite, on a ,i t'strier evening. The answer which he had then 4 "s!ived was not satisfactory. lie was un- Wlilin g at that time to soy mote than he did, :btit he thought it would-be felt, that if there were "3n e 'Pestle!), that at the present morneut jute lested the Members of that House, and the Pub lie at large, more than another, it was that to Zhich he had called the attention of t!,e Noble He believed that no individual who had .11. eard the Noble Lord expatiate on tile great and insportatit advantages resulting to the nation from 1.1.1 e establishment of the House of Brunswick in these realms, would think it proper that one il illstrious-Memberof that Family (now our Queen) should remain un ac kn o wl e d g ed w ith out som e , Ong reaSoll9 being shown for it. He (Mr. omt).did not lay claim to more loyalty titan `qe s, but he wa s surPrised that some of thOse Zho 'Professed such boundless devotion to the .I"sonswiek Fathily should be slow to acknowledge Lof its Members as Queen, .to which rank, ,if , 41 : e oittlerstood the law of the country, she was of i i ght entitled. I t was not hi s i ntent i on to i nter - l er e with the right of his Majesty to alter. the .: 11.413 of the Ch urc h, b u t b e wou ld venture to ays what every body knew, that the late change ant the Li turgy had .excited much surprise, 1, caused gre a t ditl erence of opinion in he country. He understood the Noble Lord sslid . t the Chancellor of the E xc h e q uer , th a t f l o was intended to move for a grant to meet t i 4 ° fle quarte r t h e c h a e ges on t h e Ci v il Li st , at (Ist r ate at whi c h i t h a d b een l ate ly fixed. He T o ok t he liberty o f sa yi n g th a t th e p ro p os ed grant 44 1 ;'ne quarter would make no provision foi: the afte r Her Her annuity of 35;0001• per annum, th e on the Consolidated Fund., bad ceased on t le mise of the late King. • l ois had been grant mot.: her as Princess of s, and was hers no what situation that she wa, Queen of England In to L -tt uation was she to be placed ? Was she w." provided tot as Qiieeu—as nincess . of ell or vi 7 P...s she not to be provided for at ) 111 . Watt ste to b e m a in t h i lte d i n a manlier r Stable t o her reek, or was she to be left des titute, red uce d to the condition of a beggar ? et) " Majesty was as much the Queen of this thl intr Y as his Majesty could be Kieg. This, in a-- case of G eorge t h e S econ d' s Q ueen, was • Le i n the most particular m a nner, and ni t ha d expected that in the present instance there "'Quid have been no doubt--no hesitation in re voquising her Majesty as Queen of England, ch rank belong e d to her of right on the death of George the Thud. Il e wish e d th e H ouse to ' c o nsider what mo st b e t h e s i tuat i on of her Ma jesty if the English Parliament sepaCated without _ c kliowled g i ng h er rank. if she were to land to- L° l lsow at Dover, how w ou ld sire be received ? „ i d the officers at any of the out-ports ktww wite ,,,t_ter they w ere to receive her as their Queen or not v .Ves it fit t h at matters shOuld he left thus, that she sh ould !fee lik e ly to laud, arid find the public t une - Itonarics uninf orme d as to the Manner in which ewere to rec e i ve het Ought she t o b e rbiecicd to inconveniences like those which he " i l'lstised, and ought the House to separate l unt some provision for her Majesty ? This ought not_ to be. He was . confident that Ministers would consult the feelings of the people, as well as a sense of moral decency, by making such an arrangement as she had a tight to claim, not only as Queen, but as a wife under the law of England, which in every case compelled the man to provide for the woman whoin he took for his wife. If. the House separated, as was now posed, she would have nothing to depend upon for support, and she could only look for support from Ministers and front his Majesty. He had no doubt that his Majesty of himself would make a suitable provision for the Queen ; but it was not right and consistent that she should he left thus dependent. He would ask it it were not pro per that some specific provision should be made, and some decision come to, as to how far her iNla jesty was to be received as Queen of England - ; and these were points on which he thought the House were boned in honour and in decency to come to some understanding without loss of time. Lord CASTLEREAGH said, whet, The Hun. Gen tleman put the question to him which he had ask ed on a former night, he had felt it to be his ditty to consult the feelings of the House and of the Country, by not entering into the subject more than was absolutely necessary..—(f-lear, hear, hear !)—He had therefore considered himself hound to 'say no more till the question came re gularly before the House, than this, that care had been taken to guard against any additional diffi culties being experienced by the High Personage alluded to. What he then stated referred more' especially to pecuniary matters. It was thought proper to guard against inconvenience of that sort, with the least possible loss of time, as it was not their object, in any case, to give the High Personage in question cause to complain of harsh ness or inattention. Mr. Hussy remarked, that his question bad been treated as one that might have been spared. It was now to be proposed that a grant should be made to cover the expenses of tie Civil List for one quarter forward. , Was it then unfair for him Lo ask, if the annuity granted the Princess of Wales was to cease, or in what way, that tailing her, she was to be supported ? Lord CASTLEREAGH believed, that if the Hon. Gentleman had only had patience to hear the grant about to be moved by his Right Hon. Friend, he would have found that it extended to the Conso lidated Fund on which the annuity of 35,0001. to the Princess of . Wales had been charged. Mr. TIERNEY, as one of the guardians of the public purse, could not be content to act on blind rumours ; but, at the same time, he could not consent to give a snot of money to any person labooring under a heavy cloud of suspicion, till that suspicion should be removed. This was his feeling on the subject. He would give no opinion on the merits of the case, and he agreed. with the _Noble Lord opposite that the question ought„ never to have been discussed in that House. But how was it brought before them ? Did they go to the question, or did tequesrion come to them ? It might suit the Noble Lard to proceed in a covert Manner, and, by the aid of the 'pul pit and other means, throw suspicions on the party who had. heels metitioued, and to ab stain for the present making it the ';object of debate; but lie (Mr. Tierney) thoucht that if any debate were 10 take place on the subject, not a moment ought to be lost in bringing it on. No man cottld feel more abhorrence for con duct really had than he did, and, with this feel ing, he could not consent to a grant in favour of a person now labouring under suspicions like those which were attached to the subject of the present conversation. Ho- was then called upon to vote a sons of money, because that suited the views of Ministers ; and then ar some future day, if be :un derstood the matter rightly,t he whole business was to be brought before them.—[lt was denied, on the Ministerial side that this had been s s a t e ai—W e ll then, it seemed they were to have no discussion at all about it ! But even this would not •remove his objections. IVould Ministers answer a few questions that he was desirous of putting? Would they say :whether or not any notification of the death of the late King bad been made to the Queen ? Had she been apprized of the new rank to which she had succeeded ? Had any communication taken place between her Majesty and the Ministers of . the King since the demiie of the Crown ? \Votald they answer these questions ? If nothing of the kind that he had supposed had taken place + what was the situation of this country 3 They were all of a sudden called epon to pass oaer one Member of the Royal Family - in, their prayers, for whom they had been heroarfore enjoined to pray. This bad been done `oy oraier ; but for what reason ? Somebody seenaao.to be ill-treated in this. It appe . dr that either the King was betrayed, or else, Qateen was insult ed.- s s(Hear, bear, hear !) —4le was no p r iirty to any such feeling ; but, speaking out, as an hottest Member of Parlia ment ought to do, lie would repeat it, that cir cumstances led to the conclusion, either that. the King was betrayed, or that the Queen was in sulted. If a case could be made out against her Majesty, let it be done. Ile had heard, iu com mon with every body else, some rumours afloat that were very injurious to her present Majesty. He had heard that, which, if it were true, he should ,say was sufficieot to decide that she ought not to sit upon tie throne of England. He had heard what would lead him to such a conclusion, but he could not consent to act on mere rumours. If a subject in this country had a claim to the sante impartial justice as a King, it was not too much to admit, that a King had as good a claim to justice as a subject, and where be was aggrieved he was entitled to seek for redress. He (Mr. Tierney) • had heard that a Commission had been sent out to inquire into transactions of an improper character, and to take evidence on the subject. IVas - this so, or was it not ? If it were, true, why not produce the evidence ? Did the Noble Lord mean to say that he would keep the evidence in his pocket, and not bring it forward till a vote had been made in favour of a person who might be unworthy of such consideration? This matter he would maintain ought to he sifted to the bottom. He would say again that it the rumours now abroad were true her Majesty was unfit to sit on the English Throne, In that case the King ought to have his mind relieved by the interletence of Parliament, and if they were but calumnies the Qacen was . entittedto an opportunity of repelling them. The recent change was not the only one that bid taken 'place within a very limited period. On the death of her—late Majesty an alteration was made, and the Clergy and others Were di rected to pray for ihe King,. the Prince Regent, the Princess of Wales, and the Royal Family.— He would then ask, why he was not to pray fur the same person under a different name, for whom he had so recently been directed to pray, when she was Princess. of Wales ? But the Noble Lord would say, that to introduce this topic was to promote a political battle, and to bring on dis cussions, that could do . no good, but which might prove fatal to the tranquillity of the country. He might say all this, bat still he must ask the No ble Lord if he might not pray for the same per son as Queen for whom he was enjoined to pray while she was only Princess of Wales. He believed that Ministers, whatever might he the feelings - of the King, would be glad to put off this question. 'They had in tact done so, till it could be blinked no longer. He now called upon the Government to bring the matter forward, and he solemnly pledged hitifself that if it should ap pear, on inquiry, that her Majesty was unworthy to sit on the Thz.one of England, that nothing %II (mid deter him.from doing his duty, and, as far as in him lay, contributing to relieve his Nlejesty's wind as to his Royal Consort. It his Majesty and his Queen could not live together, it was a matter to be deplored, though not to he re medied, but at all evens site was Queen, and that word must come out before he would consent to any vote on her account. He called _ (so the House to look at the course Which had been pursued towards that high personage (as the Queen had been called by the Hon. and Noble Lord) and see how it stood. It was said that a Commission had been sent out to examine witnesses as to her et iminality—it was then seep that site was struck out of the Liturgy, and then it was thought vet y 5 impertinent in the Members of that House to ask what had become of her, and where site had gone, when a grant 011 her account was wanted. But the Noble Lord stated the grant to be moved would extend as well to the Consolidated Fund as to the Civil List. He, however, contended, that the provi sion made for the Princess of Wales could not be applicable to the service of the Queen. The sub ject ought to be fully investigated. If the Noble Lord would pledge himself that a satisfactory in quiry should take place . in the new Parliament, with such a promise he would be content. 1-Ic was only anxious that justice should be done.— The subject was painful to speak upon, and it was one of extreme delicacy. What he lid said - had been tel tittered, but uttered out of' sincere respect for the Monarchy of England: Mr. BROUGHAM said, his Right Hon. Friend had expressed his feelings as delicately as.,pos sible, and proVed himself fully aware of the ex treme delicacy of the subject. The House would, he trusted, do him the justice, that his situation was still more delicate than that of his Right Hon. Friend, and that it was a still more painful duty for hint to perform titan it was for his Right [lon. Friend ; but he was bound to offer a few obser vations in fairness to his own mind, and in fair ness to the Right Hon,Gentleman (Mr. Tierney). He believed that it was trite new to hesitate to recognize as Qoeeti the Wife of the King, by Orders in Council, in the speeches of Ministers, and by the '2ublic Authorities. Ile had always *untkrstood that the Wire of the reigning Kingsivas the Queen Consort. The late demise.of the Crown, which made the Prince. Regent King, made his Consort Queen, and she was as much toe latter as he could be the former, and she was none the less Queen because her name was struck out of the Liturgy ; though no Orders in Council named her, and though no addresses of condolence and congratulation were voted to her Majesty, and her being Queen was nothing affected by her being ailed merely a " High Personage" by the Noble Lord opposite, instead of being named the Queen. These distinctions would not better her title if they were accorded, and being left out they couPe not injure it. These were all " Trifles light as air ;" and ought he then to feel hampered if called upon fora grant of money to support the undeniable, Ite •indispoted rauk of that illustrious personage who was Queen of these Realms, and who must continue Queen of them so long as that which was rumoured against ,her remained unproved. He did not see any great cause for objection to the proposed vote ; for, if they voted enough to meet the'charges of the Civil List for one quarter at the rate of its former income, and also a sum suffi cient to continue the annuities charged on the Consolidated Fund,they gave the Crown the power • of making good the accustomed payment, and left it to the Crown, if practicable, to effect a Cortes poudent saving in some other quarter. He could not see why this question was introdneed on the present occasion. He knew of no clond of ,sus-• picion that had been said to hang over her Ma jesty ; refused his ears to all the rumours that were afloat. So long as the high and illustrious personage that had been spoken of was the Con sort of the King, he knew her only as such. Of any inquiry that had taper place be knew no thing-she would hear of nothing—he would listen to nothing of the kind, but would study to keep his ' mid "•free from the sinister inflne4tce of those reports which had got abroad. But if a charge should ever be brought forward against her Majesty, founded on the inquiry said to have been recently made, that charge he would' meet, as an honest Member of Parlia ment ought to meet such a charge, and endea vour to deal out equal justice to both the parties principally concerned, (God knew that they alone were not concerned). Till that time arrived he would express no - opinion, but when it came he would endeavour to render justice to the Queen, or to the King, if he were placed in a situation which entitled him to a remedy. But, till that time, events of such unspeakable importance, big .with matters which none could scan but those most intimately acquainted with all the extraor dinary circumstances of the case, and big with consequences.to the subjects of.his Majesty-which none could anticipate ; till that time came his lipS were sealed, 1 1 'hile be said this, he ought in justice to her Majesty (without prejudging any question to be hereafter decided) to recall the fact, that as yet nothing had been proved against her. B:.e had never yet shown any slowness to meet accusation, and had not tared to re pel those charges which she had been enabled to meet. .Let the moment of attack come whet, it might, they ought to give her credit for readiness to meet the charge, and believe that she may he found equal to the task of making her defence.— Ile trusted that he might be allowed to say, that more calmness and temper ought to be brought to the discussion of this question than could be ex pected at present. On such an occasion, even the voice of party ought to be heard no more. Ques tions so big with importance to the. Constitution of this realm, and to all the Members of the Royal Family, ought to teach them to avoid ap pealing to the turbolent passions of men, by broaching this subject at a moment like the pre sent. But one feeling ought to prevail. All ought to deprecate at resting the course of justice, and defeating the administration of justice herself, by prematurely dragging the question to discus sion through the mire of every hustings ail over the country. For himself, having duties of a professional nature to perform on the one hand, and having a public ditty to discharge as a Mem ber of Varlittment on the other, he should endea vour to steer an even and a correct cow se, and fairly acquit himself of both, and sincerely did he hope that the same moderation %%hie!) he vowed to God filled his own bosom, might extend itself to every other so often as this question came on, der the consideration of that llouse.—(llcar, hear, hear !) Lord CASTLEREAGH, after the speeches of the Right Hon. Gen:leman and the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, felt that a few words might be ex pected trout him. Yet, atter what hod been stated by ate Learned Gentleman, it was hardly ne cessary for him to rise, as that which be (Mr. Bioughana) bad stated must, he was sure, carry conviction 'to the whole House. All must feel that the course which he had suggested was tile only proper course that could be taken. lie had been supposed, in the course of the conversation, to throw out an insinuation which he had never intended should come from him. . In what he had said on a former night, he bad merely spoken to the measures taken to guard against any pecuniary inconvenience being sustained in a certain high quarter. He had,said that a moment would come when the Civil List must. be brought tinder the consideration of Parliament, and a suitable pro vision made for all the Members of the Royal The question was then put and carried, and the House resolved itself into a COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY. Two grants of 600,0001. and 200,0001. having been voted for the service of the Army, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER roe to move for a grant on account of the Civil Contingencies, and for the payment of the Civil List. The House was aware that there were various annuities charged on the Consolidated Fund.— Amoug, these was one for 35,0001. which had been granted to the Princess of Wales. It was his intention to submit to the House a vote sufficiently large to make the ordinary pal ments of the Civil List and of the Consolidated Fund, for the present quarter, up to the sth of April, as if the death, of his late Majesty had not occurred. Such a provision being made, as no other payments should become doe before th sth of July, it was obvious that the llouse would have time. to take the whole subject into its consideration before any arrear of debt could be incurred. He then moved for a grant of 200,0001. to satisfy Annuities and Pensions, or other pay ments charged on the Consolidated Fund, or Civil List, as they would have been satisfied if the demise of his Majesty had not taken place before the sth of April. Mr. TIERNEY understood that the object of the Right Honourable Gentleman was to enable the Kilt to make good all paymentsout of the Civil List that were due, and to sit tisfy those eliargrd on the Consolidated Fund, which had failed on,lbe late demise of the Crown. He recognised among those no sum of money that could be appropriated to the Queen,. The annuity which had been granted to her as Prin cess of Wales was hers no longer—as Princess of Wales, there wa's none at present, and, •therefore, unless they introduced ti de word " Queem" into the Resolution, he would assert, that she could have no right to one sixpence of her former annuity. The Resolution was then agreed to. A Grant of 2,000,0001. for Irish Treasury Bills was agreed to. The House then resumed, and the Report of. the Commit. tee was ordered to he received tu•morrow. In a Committee of Ways and Means, a Vote for the appli cation of 7,000,0001. for the nnapplieS Aids of 1819 to the service of 1820, was agreed to. The Irish It:ketion Polls Bill went through a Committee, the report of which was received, and the ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. . The second reading of the Irish Fzebequer Chambers Bill was postponed till that day f6rtnight. INSOLVENT DEBTORS' BILL. Lord ALTHORP took occasion to go over the provisions of the Bill which he hail brought in, and dip objections which had been started to several of its provisions. He set forth the importance of making the Cessio Bonoram the principal fea ture of the - measure, and defended the clause which went to make it compulsory on the debt 4 to take the benefit of the Act. He finished by moving that the Bill should be read a, second time that day fortnight. After a few words front Mr. Alderman WOOD, the motion was agreed to. The second reading of the Conveyancers' Bill was post poned till that day fortnight. FINANCE. Mr. MABERLEY nsoved for Accounts of the Net Revenue (shire "Tinted Kingdom, disting uishing the amount of the New Duties, and separating the Irish Accounts from those of 'England. The CHANCELLOR of the. EXCHEQUER remarked, the papers called for were a contimsation of those granted its the last Session. They would all show the decrease of the Conso lidated Fund, and the manlier in which it had been made Wood. Mr. MABERLEY said, the present arrestr of the Consoli dated Fund was the most important one that had ever been known, as it amounted tohetween 10,000,0001. and 11,000,0001. If he. should have a seat in the New Parliament, he should certainly endeavour to call Ministers to an account for esta blishing so dangerous a precedent. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought the Hon. Gentleman was misinformed on this subject. The ar rear of the Consolidated Fund amounted to but 8,300,0001. in October last. Since that peritsd an improvement had takers place. In the present quartg - there was already a surplus of 100,0006. over the produce of the correspondlng period of the. same quarter in the last year. - t tie heal, therefore, hopes that the arrears of the Consolidated-fund would be very ma - terially dituinishe.d by the sth of AprlL The Hon. Gentleman had spokes' as if the whole deficiency grew out of a defalca tion of the Revenue, but this lie shewed . was not the case, as it was in part caused by the payment ousd:;.ts.sthe Bank. Mr.MABERLEY and the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHE QUER mutually explained. The Resolution was then agreed to, as were several motions for other financial papers. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER obtained leave to bring in to continue the laws about to expire. He then brought in this Bill, which was read a first and. second time,laud ordered to be committed to-morrow. The. CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER appeared at the Bar, and stated his Majesty to have been waited upon with the Address conic to by that House on Friday, which he was pleased must graciously to receive .—Adjourned.