The Sun. — London, England, 1855-03-02 00:00:00

r gyp; t f7d; ceiljo!, 9,0 poi' ol f „0 9 0It, yt d. s , 1$ 50 1. , 00, o ,or 11. 11 ; .9rV' 0, 04, t , V"' #4 , r, f° ll ' # O 4 00 so 80 ° ` 1 0 11 ` Pp°, ?IP ) X- IP o t °' 4 f e' othel ° el " c o'g' rr .; r Pie s; 9.- `iro /. 4 1r)- Tc A T : . INTELLIGEIV( B. CITY, T`i79o o'CLOCK. dh,leilecitton inar4t at Liverpool yesterday t v N h a e s ".Y i i . Th e sa l es Were 6,000 bales, all to 0 11 4 1 , 11(l ing, 4 69 Pern am an d Maranham, at vat 53 8 ,1 `" ; 100 B a hi a at 6d. to 60.; 150 E JP ; and 300 Surat at 3d. to 34d. —4aLway Shares Were firmer, and more in tie t i k week is 70s. 6d stArter, la average price of wheat • i; 41 1 "e 0010 • mai Markets this week the purchases 'united th e b ut owing to the firmness . of kt 9 4, Prices generally have been well main ktiql Linger Las been quiet, but without alte klit4oLlire ra.tes. Of coffee, very little has been kt th e publicly-, but plantation Ceylon, t elli gu week, Went heavily at auction. Rice "k‘t firmer va l ues,spices are mostly r, „ ald ° TI4 4 , t ea, since the sales and the arrival of ; 11 13 1 e v ., 8 , has been rather higher. Cochi itidi firm, cotton inactive; also rum and ;wl,4gb°,,lea terminated with more spirit. Tal -45.1,k "4 dull. The deliveries continue good, r h olt 4 ^ e use and export, but the stocks of 1 1 - o„ iat e e s l,7 4re still in excess of last year. The ' ll )te t °wing to the unfavourable winds, arreall. 4,•4r, ,oft Shipping List made up by Mr. Ntit o? , fle Jerusalem Coffee-house, gives the fc ' ,r 'e image on the berth for the present --N-0W- South. Wales at 7,749 ; for 6taer ,oto . , ' and for Adelaide 5,998 tons. To ' 4 lll l A ustr alian ports , as well as India, t4 l " 4 er of vessel s are on the list. 1,,41'0,)1, L1tem i t , ent of Mr. Joseph Whitaker, of ( 1 : 1, 11 th e 111 mentioned that during the past of; ebiPments thence to Australia have 4 k na that freights havebeen dull. The 4; , 4 , tim e _ 1 / 4 , i ll o f passengers who left was last month littlgnt v essels of 9,496 tons. 141.t1116ts done in American Securities has ° at the following rates fil ,e 6 Redeemable. Per Cent. ty tea ' P®r Cont. Bonds 1862... 98 99 it St ates Der Cent Bonds 1868...106 107 per Cent. Inscribed k i ta,, i 4 ....................... 1867-1868-.105 106 i thti 4 Per Cent 11 'llittt„," ) k Per Cent. Bonds 1877... 80 82 (1 5 1 ,:" Per Cent. (Sterl. Bonds 1868...102 103 5 „Cent. (Sterling Bonds) ... 91 92 Per `o' e e at• (S Bonds) 185i-9-66... 83 84 cPer Cen t. Bonds —148 8 8 6 .. 11 85 t6 B nds Der 0 0 LC' lIES. Ilp krts 6 .... N 3 of CIT .............. 1851-1865.- 83 Per Cent. Bonds 1874... 78 (I° ' do. 1881._ 72 • 1/4k4t4ttrai itiaLltOAD BONDS. )N11 7 , 3 p er Per Cent. 1875... 68 70 ot,„ i tcl R ) ° l 't-, Ist Mortgage (Ster -6.• ....... 1860._ 92 94 (Star k' 41(1 D e "1111 E. Rd 6p. Cent 1880... 87 Sig . "'lie 7 per Cent. Ist M0rt .................. .1868-1869-100 101 WIC . '"• • e 7 Per Cent. 3d Mort k'l4k ao ‘p ( f4-.• • ........... . ............. 1883... 81 83 Cent . :Co - uvertible 1862... 68 70 " 4 4 Il e ti '.l l , 7 , Cent. Convertible..lB7l... 74 ..per Cent .. lncom e . 76 78 t), ta ret Urh gives the imports of tallow iKhtited kingdom from Russia last year at t t0),34 4 remarkable falling off compared is Al tl/t t t he supply from Prussia in creased tt hlq, ) ` 0 2 53,955 cwts. The same increase lnd ll resp ect to hemp, linseed, and That tiadont illustr ation of the working of the m ecki leqb„ tct lk ` 41 45.. 11 ce ''''ket has taken a start upwards, in Of 11 v 4 41, tili of the news from Berlin of the Ne ° 4i Deror of Russia, but likewise to h ip~ h ttill g to the rumours afloat that there n l lt of 1 , e ase. t 2 than ever for belief in the at kki:°l.ll(ll,eate. Upon what honourable term s ~Oa e n ' a ttained while Sebastopol r emains i""la C e %t p ersons fi n d it difficult to say. t 4.Ve been 91i . I ) and s ince 91 i Ir l'alisfe r• The opening prices for ac i 41 91 1 ; they have since been as high 41 ' a ria are O il E. The New Three per 11 4 : 4e been 911 and92l, and 'the Reduced n iank Stock has b een 2131 to 215. East ' t ek is at 220. Exchequer Bills are 6s. to l l4d. 4 4, is bonds 10 s. t o 11s. premium. Ex 44ifonds have b een 991 to Stl,Z.a Securities have been steady generally, to aft brisk-. Turkish Bonds have risen to Spanish Deferr e d are 17/ to 18. t 1 - . ‘ 2pi 3 4a /e , been clone at 211. Mexican Stock 1 1 1 11 , :k i, c4t (-Inador at ; and Grenada at 15i. 1 4 44 %tc, \l 'ots. bring 93g. th lit Y from Madrid inform us of the e °Ilk ) . Np2Polit ° ders having had their claims met tll ll47 4 atiq, °f a per cent. stock in the Bank of Th i A leS 4 4 collateral security, the Bonds tto t k" 1 011 01 . 11 : a llother year. tk b li g are the nominal prices of foreign kr ' o 2(j ( Deferred Bonds, 5 to 6 ; Meal ; Peruvian, 70 to 71 ; ditto Three ttt c to . 5 1; Portuguese Four per Cents., 814) 1 Five per Cents., 96 to 98 ex d ; )4,:,!t1i QM - a-Ralf per Cents., 87 to 89 ; tti o `ilit s 7 Deferred, 17 to 18 ; ditto Three ~aee to ; ditto Certificates, to 5; Itaii i ve, to 41. kttl ill et w _ 43 ' Share Market has moved up with k i g e 44i:ea-dies, and a larger business is doing s l \ t NC o o.te cl rates. Caledonian are 105. higher, Fr ei estein 0 4 41 :411,: :1t ies have risen Great Western to to I, and Midland, South tti.,tiliz4ledlsNorth-Eastern in proportion. The lea - ' till(' L s h ave been mostly rather deareralso. No ha v ki ° ll s are up to and East Indian I. e been at 2, and Royal Danish at "kike e b_u a res are, fin t d and the Banks ppOr e , &Ls t ieous Companies are quiet. B ANDS ksm. THIS DAY.—CLOSING PRICES. 1 (- ? 1 ' 0 14 the Ogicial Lit.) t i t (11t.k Business done -••••.. Business . ............................. 215 13} tta - A,J.13 0 „ .bed te,ed Annuities. -lig ru t r.,2'%us Annuities 9 lAt/ti ItittStrt. t knnnities - 2$ ?1 I zpire sth Jan., 1860 .. 4 5-16 7-16 1r It% Expire 10th Oct., 1859 3-16 .................................. 220 4(11 % . lui t i e 4l o(lo ktq l 44 4 000 l4 kic); ii; )1 11 1 :t, Btit March 9l fl •.. 24d. t ...... t ith " ...... 6 9 eqlz Ditto ....... ... t o li.E 1858: 34 pe: Cent. 99i i :qtZlyr t °ll ' FOREIGN FUNDS THIS DAY. t kv , ?Ids, G to,',L aceountper Cent D 5 2 k'44(l' pond ' pe r 4ll °4e r Cent 4,1. k t,ers, etilt• befe e d si e Account 2oi 6 t 'it tol l( 1 8 ,3 Per D Ce n t 11 Ne ' 1111 1 d ew • P er Cent. B7i 1, !tt,,, I N4q O ,rred, 3 per C en t l7i 18 tticr , ; p er cent 4t1q,111:1all A c cou n t _NA 1:4 11 04 ,..; .. ........................ ••• 1 2 u 1 1 3. -4 ,, t 0 3 , 4 per Cent. •••••••":" do: l tto i t t ili: tg u e. 2 t p h e e r above payable in . LOll _ • Certifiea n t . es .... Z ° lell B. THREE O'CLOCK. ................................ 'arch AccoDnt ... I , +.4ON„ 04 4 1 11 - tLECTION.—A general meeting of the ' 41 4 114 the rl C ity of Loudon was held yesterday after- Loud, ref don n Tavern, Bishopfapte-street, to take iit„ k loud„..." l " nee to the aproaching election for . the ""• The meeting was called by the Liberal Ite P r 11 Atng o • • • tof which, Mr. it t t 4 Z% Eigeott elation, the pre s i d ent egreed t © las called to the chair. .Resolutions I :t til 11, t , a ‘' r ming that it was of vital importance as,ce til t re ire . ssell should be re-elected, inasmuch (I'4 etedGovernmentould be a fatal blow to Lord Pd - 4 1 '"terd tcht l , 44l lli Y , tl Ih• I N the meeting of Middlesex magistrates, 44 h - e ' t ,tte b et of coroners' fees were disallowed, the s „ 0 % Loa ac..counts deeming that the Inquest Newl'inr. Qogrunnecessarily. A. strong communication Lkt 4 441 §, w a rie r Iledford, on the subject of these die -041.4ky tri eeti n read • 1 01 41 kfte rao g of the Colonial Gold Company held yes ti7 Ilte %do me ? tbe report and accounts were unani ,kt u• It appears that operations in New ' l c r) , l cl xt.4e are bbing steadily proceeded with, and i l'ith'Prey, e 4 Prospect of success.. The whole of the ' l 4l ta 6 ,00 01 T1 t obtaMed amounts to about 7,0001., of tt r IY e x bas been theproduce of alluvial washings qe . 411 4 Per itnentg It 4 au tv '4l. 0 , „ Ipay ALADLLE. DOUDET.—On Wednesday ri ghte c i t .. litt ed Doudet of tbe charge of 44 114 41 , She remains in custody on other charges. 44 4 to pay the expenses. Q PE MA, Rl( me b A ItAILWAYS. RAILWAYS. Closing Prices this iv, Business done this day. 100 Aberdeen ..... 82 Ambg. Nottng. Bost and Eastn. Junet all Belfast & Ballymena all Birming. Wolverh. Stour Va11ey...... .. 292 Birkenhd. Lanesh. L Cheshire Junct sill Do. Chesh. & Birk., £5O and £25 Cons. 19 Do., £2O 30 Blyth &Tyn 3 origina' £25 (issd. at £45, 100 Bristol and Exeter 100 Caledonian 21s. Carmarthen and Car digan all Chester & Holyhead all Cork and Bandon all Cork, Black, & Pass 16 Cornwall 11 Crieff Junction 45 Dublin&BelfastJunc all Dundee Perth&Aber deen Junction all Do. New 100 East Anglian all Eastern Counties 100 Eastern Union, Stock ••••••••• ••••• . 100 De., B. Stock 81 Do., New A ...... 100 East Lancashire . 100 Edinburgh& Glasgow all Edinb. and Peebles... 100 Edin.PrW &Dundee 1 ?orth & Clyde June all Furness all Do. Eitension 100 Glasgow &S. Western 100 Great Northern 100 Do., A. Stock 100 Do., B. Stock..., .00 Gt. Sth. &West.(lre ) 100 Great Western 100 Do. Stour Val. Ra - Gua Stk all Irish South-Eastern all Lancaster & Carlisle 143 Do., Thirds 4 Do. New Thirds 100 Lancasla.andYorksb all Do., Fifths 11i Do., Wst. Riding Un all Liv.Crsby.&Southpt all London & Blackwal 100 Lond. Bright &S.Cst. 100 Loud. and N. Westn. 16 Do. Fifths 51 Do.lo/.5h.,M&8... , 24 Do. Eighths 100 LondonandS. Westn 421 Do., £5O • 34 Do., £4O all Lnduclrry& Col eraine all Lndndiry. & Ennisk. .00 Nfanch.Shef.& Linen all Do. 4 Shares, No. 41 Do., Man. &Lin. Un. .00 'fficliand .00 Do. Birmng. & Derb3 all Nfidlcl .G. West. (Ire.), 22/ Do. Half Shares all Newcastle & 5i Newmkt.BuryExten. 211 Nwpt.Aberg. &Hrfd 8 Newry & Enniskillen all Newry Warrenpoinl arid Eostrevor 1.00 Norfont 31 Northo.Counties lin LOO North _British all Nortb.Deven, No. 1 all Do., No. 2 all 90., 4 A Deferred all Do., B Guaranteed WO N. Eastern—Berwick 20 Do. do. Extension 13 Do.do. G.N.E. Petrel] all Do. Loads LOO Do. York all North London all Do. New .ele 3: if g. &S.Wstrn.,llamp• stead, and City Jn., 171 North. Staffordshire.. all - North. Western all M. & S."Westrn.Junc 1 Nuneaton, Hinckley and Leicester 100 Oxford, Worcester,& Wolverharepton 8 Portsmouth 1.00 kottisli. Central 100 SeottishMidland a ll 3hrewaby. & lierefd. 100 Thropahire Union loath Devon 110 South Eastern nll 3onth Wales 15 4. Yek.sh. & Riv.Dtir 5 Do 12 itaines,Wok. all Stockton & Darliuo 16 itockton & Hartlepl. 100 Taff Vale... 9 Do. £lO shares WO Do. Pref., No. 21i £haanes Haven Docl , and Railway all Vale of Neath all Waterfd. & 'Kilkenny all Waterford&Limerici 18 West Cornwall 3 West End of London and Crystal Palace.. all West London. 141 s. Wimbledn & Croydon LO I all 5 I 3i ',OllO tO 2s. 1 i all !O 14 !.0 10 `,O lO ~ , 0 all Ki 10 0 all 5 15 15 SII ►0 all A) 10 5 an 5 1 4 all !,0i all )0 all * all )0 all 1 1 au :0 10 '0 12 0 :1 10 *1.1 31i i s , ll 0' all all A all !CI all !,0 I all 19i -20 i 4i - 4i - 8 i 13 - 121 16 17 74 6:12d 96 - P 2 62 - 634 ••• - ••• 12i - 13§ 3i - 2i 5i - 6A •• 14 14 11* ild 29 - 31 20 - 22 70 72 55 57 2d par 19i 70 - 71. - 126 - 88 128 - 90 64 631 - 60 - 62 70 = 75 6 - 7 r 5 - 7 75 754 ... ...d 97 99 97i —98 i id Id 1 r. 83i —84 i 8 74 6i 23i - 24 7i 87i -67 i 10 - 42 Par fp l it 9 it 24 i§ - 50 3$ 3 4 2 8 ... 24 10 1.4 i 7A 714 - 724 71 6 i'l 44 , 4 12 124 484 -- 494 49 c 0 d pr 41 4. 54 6 1 d par 29 - 31 99 - 161 63 - 65 46 - 48 12 - 14 59i • 60 28. E -28 i 4 - 2 2 - 1 37 - 39 4 16 1 7 3i 4 23 - 15 5i ei .. G' - 7 FOREIGN. Antwerpdtßotterdam Belgian Bastn. June. Bezlers to Graissessac Bombay,Barocla,and Centrallndia,Serip Central of Italy Demerara Dijon anaßesancon.. Dutch Rhenish Eastern of France Do. New East Indian Do. Ey.lension , Do. 4i p. c. Bds., pay , '57, convertible ..... Do. ao. do., '59, do. Gd. Tic of Cana.diA is. Do. St. Lawrence & Atlantic do. Do. Cert. of Deben., con. into Stk. till '63 Do. Comp. 6 p. c., do. Gt. Central of France Gt. Indian Peninsula Do. Now 5 per cent. Great Luxembourg --- --- ConstAnted Sharesl D o Obligations...... Gt.Woatern of Cattad. Shares Do. Bds., payable's7 with option till '55. Do. do., '62, p. '56 Do. do., '76, p. '6O Do. do., '73, withou option Hamilton & Toronto Do. 6 per cent. Lake Const. & Basle Lucca & Pistoj a 5 P.C. prof Lyons and Geneva ... Lyons & Mediterran liadras Do. Now Niaria Antonia Do. do. New Namur & Liege (witl interest) Do. (ex 'interest) Northern of France D o .20/. Shs.late Char leroi and Erquelinee guar. 3i p. c. & red. at 221/. dur. 88 yrs. from 1 Jan. 1554.... Do. 201. 3 p. c Us. (fmy.B. & Ams. Shs.) tiorwegianThmkPrel Paris and Lyons Ditto Bonds . . Paris and Orleans.... Paris and Rouen.— ParisCaen & Cherbrg Rouen and Havre.... Royal Danish Royal Swedish ;iambi . ° and Meuse Do. 54 p. cent. Prof southern of Franca. .it. Andrew's and Quebec (A) West Flanders Do 54 per c. Pref Western of France West. of Switzerland Wiesbaden Zealand .TOINT-STOP AUStralaSia _ _ British Colonial Bank and Loan Company .1 British N. American 5 Chart& Bank of Asia 2 Chrtd. Bnk. of India, Australia, & China 5 Colonial 20 -- Commercial of Lond. 8 English Scottish and - I Australian al Loud. Chart. Bk. of Australia 5 Ditto NoNteZ. 0 London aua County. O London Joint Stock 0 Loud. & Westminster ;5 National Provincial of England 0 Do. New 2 1 N a tional of Ireland 11 ( New South Wales Ai Oriental l d Imp C 0.... ol' :5 Provincial of Ireland 11 Do. New . I Royal ...kustraln.Bkg. 11 Sontli Australia 11 UniGn Ji Australia... 2;. 1).,. New ........... 0 Union 91 London ,. 61__ 0 1 - 1 4 4 - 3 par i P ... P 21 _2l 32 3211 5 64 1 la . 1p •• • •• ... -- ...di 11 par par op - 3 1 21-3 161 -17 i 95 - 97 95 - 97 99 - 10: 92 94 2 d par 07 100 ••• '- 11k 1} - 11) •• ,• , .'". . , 6 -• 7 33 83j 11/ -- _9 20f - 21 p :6 39 41 pm 21 221 ld par 21 lid 71 84 ••• ''.' ... - Pm .. - 3i - d 611, ••• an'. 17 - 18 BANKS. -- 82 ld—id 2i - 2i:l 20 20} d ip •,•• ... ••• 34 - 36 _37 - 39 .•• •• 38 --10 63 - 65 7 --- 9 25 St. 20 St 25 8G 2s 20 20 10 10 St. 10 St. 25 20 20 50 20 8i all 10 all 20 16 20 16 6 all 20 all 100 12 100 20 I 1 20 I a] 20 50 21 50 11 100 'D 100 31 20 11 50 2' 20 a 25 a: 100 21 10 al 25 1 al 25 al 62i 31 2f ni I i 90 1 127 631 1 41 31 10 74 i i 5} 98 97i i i 81 8 67iiii 46i 13 12, 6) 281 213 i 31 3 21 THE SUN ; LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, MARCH 2, 1855 -ir P P l a / — Or 1 ) All 1,1 Al HOUSE OF LORDS-(YESTERDAY.) PROMOTION IN THE ARMY. Mr. LAYARD presented a petition from Aylesbury in favour of the motion of Lord Goderich. Viscount GODERICH then rose to move that an hum ble address be presented to her Majesty, praying that she will be graciously, pleased to take into her consideration the present system of promotion in her Majesty's army, under which non-commissioned officers rarely attain to the rank of commissioned officer, and scarcely ever to that of field officer, and humbly to recommend to her Majesty that it is the opinion of this house that the said system is injurious to the public service, and unjust to the private soldier in her Majesty's army. The noble lord said, that although he felt he had more need than usual to ask the kind indulgence of the house, he did not think hon. gen tlemen would consider that an apology was needed from any member who might take up a portion of their time in asking their attention to a question of such great im portance and interest at the present moment as the system of promotion in the army and our military organisation. (Hear.) At a moment like this, when we were engaged in a great contest, and when if we had not met with great disasters our army was at least placed in a perilous and critical position—when the minds of the people of this country were occupied by little else than the consideration of the condition of that army—and when they were neces sarily asking themselves the question, "What is the cause of the evils which have befallen it ?"—the house would not, he was quite certain, grudge any time that might be occupied in the discussion of any question which might be supposed to bear upon the efficiency of the army. (Hear.) The people of this country were of opinion that there was but one principle by the application of which we might hope to obtain a safe deliverance from our elifficulties and dangers—and the loud and deep and earnest demand of the people was that the house and the Government, whatever the Government might be, should act upon this one principle in their selection of persons to fill any office, be it civil or be it military—namely, that of placing in every post of trust and command that man only who is most fitting to fill it—(hear) —looking simply to his qualifications for discharging well and wor thily the duties of that office, without considering the question of his position in office, his connection with party, or any personal feeling whatever. (Hear, hear.) It would hardly be urged that that principle had been adopted in our present system of military pro notion. It was not necessary that he should go into any long description of ' what that system was. The theory was that the right of promotion rested solely with the Crown, and was exercised by the commander in-chief. But by the purchase system which had grown up in our army, though it had never been established by any law, and which was a system of bargain and sale between individual officers - (no, no, hear, hear) —permitted and regulated by the Queen's re gulations and the orders of the Horse Guards, the selection of the commander-in-chief was limited to persons whose names were on the 'purchase-list of the regiment. Although the Horse Guards attempted to regulate the sums paid for commissions, it was notorious to every one that much larger sums were paid than was allowed by the Queen's regulations. When a vacancy was caused by the death, dismissal, or promotion of an officer, it was filled up by the Horse Guards without purchase, and this he took it was the safety-valve of the system, but for which poor merit would have no chance of advancement in the army. At the same time it involved the great anomaly and injustice that the family of an officer who died received no benefit from the sums he had invested in the purchase of commis sions. Another way by which persons not possessing for tunes sufficient to enable them to purchase commissions might obtain them was, as rewards for proficiency at Sandhurst ; but he believed he was right in saying that that military college had but a small influence on the character of the officers in the army. The number of persons who, having studied there, received commis sions was not large, and the college was altogether ina dequate to the wants of such an army as ours. (Hear.) The officers of our army were, generally speaking, drawn from, he would not say the aristocratic or the noble, but the wealthy classes. The soldiers were drawn from very different classes, and between the two there was a gulf to pass, which, 'though it was occasionally passel, could hardly be a reasonable object of ambition to the private soldier when ho entered the army. The hon. member for Richmond, and the hon. and gallant member for Abing don, having respectively given notices of motion upon the subjects of Sandhurst College and the sale and purchase of commissions, he should chiefly confine his attention to the manner in which the purchase system affected the non commissioned officers and private soldiers. The present time afforded an opportunity of dealing with this part of the subject which in time of peace did not exist. By the increase of promotion from the ranks you would pave the way for an alteration in the whole system, you would in , fuse a new spirit into the ranks of the officers, and would thus obtain time to deal with what he fully admitted to be a most complicated and difficult question—the aboli tion of purchase. There were involved in that system the rights of individuals, and any attempt to abolish it with out compensation would be simple confiscation, which ho should be the last man to advocate or not to oppose • but he believed that that system was inco n s istent with the ad vancement of merit, and with the sound principles which aught to guide a country like this, and which were there fore deserving of the attention of the Government and of the House of Commons. He need hardly enlarge upon that part of his resolution by which he asked the house to declare that privates or non-commissioned officers rarely attained to the rank of field officers or to the command of regiments, because he believed it was notoriously true that the majority, almost the universality of the superior officers of the army were persons who had never been in the ranks. Instances of such men as Sir John Elley might be quoted in opposition to this ; but he would ask those adducing such instances to be sure that they made against his argument. Some years ago, it was stated . that Colonel Cureton, whose distinguished gallantry in one of our great Indian campaigns then attracted much attention, had risen from the ranks; but, soon afterwards, he (Lord Goderich) found, from a me moir of the gallant colonel, which was published, that•he was the son of a man whose rank, though he was poor, would have entitled him to a commission, that Mr. Cure ton enlisted against the will of his father at the time of the Peninsular war, and that it was owing to these circum stances, more even than to his great and indisputable merits, that the Duke of Wellington made him a sergeant, and afterwards obtained for him a commission. Such a . case as this seemed to him (Lord Goderich) to be no objec tion to the position which he was laying down. The pro motion of non-commissioned officers to the rank of subal terns was much more frequent than their promotion to be field-officers or to command regiments; and the posts of quartermasters and paymasters were held almost exclu sively by men who had risen from the ranks, because those officers had to discharge unpleasant and clerkly duties which other gentlemen were not willing to discharge. He would state to the house the facts of the promotions which had taken place of late, when, owing to our being at war, and to the number of death vacancies at the disposal of the Horse Guards, the value of a commission was next to nothing. He could only ascertain the original circum stances of persons promoted to the ranks of ensigns and cornets. Taking that list, there had been since the Ist of October—that was since the promotions for this war began-521 ensigns' and cornets' commissions filled up at the Horse Guards. Of these 150 had been filled up by purchase. Of the 371 which had been given without purchase 266 had been given to persons described by the somewhat equivocal title of "gents," 39 to militia officers' and 66 to sergeants. Among this 66 were in cluded 40 sergeants promoted under the system introduced by the right hon. gentleman the member for South Wilt shire (Mr. Herbert), and consequently he should almost be justified in supposing that but for that change of system on 26 sergeants would have received commissions. If this was the practice followed in time of war, when the social difficulties which were urged against the change would toll much lass than in time of peace, because one campaign would produce in men fighting side by side more friendly feeling than ono ten years' association in time of peace, he thought he had established his case, that it was not the practice of the Horse Guards to hold out to soldiers any certain hopes that—except for deeds of extraordinary vales, which had always been re warded, as they deserved, with commissions—their merit would be honoured by promotion to the rank of commis sioned officers. If that was the principle, ho would ask the house to consider whether it was advantageou asked of the soldierthe p ossession not only of physicas. You l cour age, but also of devotion, of self-sacrifice, of endurance, of privation, of patriotism, and of loyalty—all qualities which contained at least the germs of military genius, and which formed the foundation of the character you eoquited in those filling the highest posts in your army; and yet you held out no hope that if ho displayed military genius, cour age, and ability, ho would meet with the reward of mili tary command. Let them consider the case of France, and say whether the wars of Napoleon, and the army which he commanded, did not prove that is every rank of society might be found men fit for military command. The mar shal whom the French army called "Le brave des braves" was the son of a cooper at Senlis. Massena was the sou of a simple citizen at Nice. He enlisted in the French army before the revolution as a private soldier, but having no hope of promotion left it. After the syst em was changed ho re-entered it, and rose to be Is marshal of France, and to be called by Napoleon "the child of victory." He might be told that this was applicable to France, but not to Eng land. (Hear, hear.) Did the hon. gentleman why cheered mean to say that our soldiers were less fit to command than were those of France? Did the hon. gentleman mean that the English soldier wanted the qualities which entitled him to the confidence of his country? To refute any such allegation, he (Lord Goderich) would appeal to the letters which had been written by soldiers engaged in the present campaign • he would appeal to the hon. member fo r Northamptonshire (Mr. Stafford), who had deserved the thanks and respect of all by devoting himself to the alleviation of the suffering of our 'wounded soldiers. He would ask him whether ho had learned at their death-beds lessons of resignation, of loyalty, and gentleness which he might never have learned in the best circles of'London society ? (Hear.) For many years the attention of successive Governments and of suc cessive Secretaries at War had been devoted to improving the condition and the education of soldiers. Did not this improvement of their education give them a greater claim to promotion ? He should hardly be toll that our soldiers were wanting in courage. If ho were, he would appeal to tho hon. and gallant gentleman near him (Sir Do Lacy ---- Evans) who was present at the " soldiers' battle," and could tell of their deeds on that occasion, and who could tell of the'deeds of Sergeant Sullivan whom ho mentioned in his despatch, but whose name was, in obedience to pue rile and cruel etiquette—(cheers)---struck out of the de ipateh of the Commander-in-Chief, and over whom twelve gentleman had since been appointed to ensigncies in his own regiment. If it were admitted that it would be just to c hange our system, he would ask the house to consider whether it would be expedient. He only asked that they should do upon system something more than had been done by the right hon. gentleman the member for Wiltshire (Mr. S. Herbert), but which that right hon. gentleman had established on no firm or permanent basis. At the meet ing of Parliament before Christmas that right hon. gentle man, in supporting the Foreign Enlistment Bill, com plained of the difficulty of obtaining recruits such as were required for the - arduous service in the 'Crimea. This difficulty would not have been so great had it been possible for tho recruiting sergeant to have said to every man who would enlist, that if ho possessed knowledge, intelligence, and genius for command, he might rise to any position to which his talents entitled him. (Hear, hoar.) If the system were changed you might obtain recruits from classes the members of which now never entered the army at all. Since the Ist of October 416 men had received commissions who had never been in the army before. They were all mere youths of the description of which the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Herbert) complained as inadequate to the work of the campaign. Of course in the present state of affairs it was not long before a man was sent on active service, and he then wont out with, it was true, all that youthful courage, generosity, and deer°. " far which t‘t! _ye to.i distin guisiied, but without any military knowledge eec..pt such as he had gained by his examination. Ho went'out at an age which in other pursuits ho would not be thought fit to be placed in responsible situations or to have the command of men. Soon after he went out ho might have to command a picket, where upon his skill, vigilance, and knowledge might depend, as before now had depended, the safety of the army. Before he went on duty his commencing officer would probably send for bins and say, " You go on picket to-night. Perhaps you may not wall know the nature of the duty, but Sergeant So-and-So is a very steady, experi enced man ; he will go with you and *ill tell you what to do." Surely it was au inversion of common sense to place a man in command of any part of a regiment who was obliged to take his instructions from a non-commissioned officer. (Hear.) A story, which he knew to be true, had been told to him of a young and gallant officer who first saw a battle en Lthe heights of the Alma, and who, in writing to his mother afterwards, said, when the balls began to fall thick around him and men were dropping on every side of him, he felt for a few moments a thrill of terror, and was hesitating whether ho should flee. At that moment a great tall sergeant behind him took him by the back of the neck and pushed him into the thick of the battle. (A laugh.) Hon. gentlemen might laugh, but the story was true. The young officer went on to say that from that moment he never felt fear, and he must have been a gallant man to have told the story himself. (Hear.) It was by that sergeant that he was made a - soldier. (Hear.) A gallant friend of his (Lord Goderich) now in command of one of her Majesty's regiments, and a most distinguished officer, told him—speaking on the subject of his (Lord Goderich's)presentmotiou—that the present system affected the efficiency of the army not only in time of war, but in time of peace. (Hear, hear.) He said a short time after he joined his regiment the command of his company devolved upon him. The commanding officer sent for him, and said, " You do not, of course, know your duties'as commander of a company, but Sergeant-Major So and-So is an experienced man, and he will explain to you what you should do." (Hear.) His (Lord Goderich's) friend followed that advice, and the result was that he ra pidly rose to the rank of a colonel—(an ironical laugh)— and had the pleasure afterwards of recommending the ser neant enajor to an ensigncy. But he (Lord Goderich) con tended that it was an inversion of common sense to have promoted the officer before the sergeant-major. He did not for a moment propose that the commissions in the army should be held exclusively, or even mainly, by men rising from the rank of private soldiers. All he said was that the present proportions should be changed. He had been asked why he did net frame his motion for a com mittee. He had not done se first, because the ground was occupied, and secondly, because the change he was new urging was one which could be made now, and for making which the present time was peculiarly favourable, which might not be the case if they waited to have the report of a committee. (Hear.) We were now fighting side by side With a gallant ally, in whose army a different system existed, and which army, if report spoke true, bore a strik ing contrast to our own. He thought there was testimony enough to show that the French army was altogether in a better condition than our own, and that we ought to allow no false pride to prevent us examining into their system, and considering whether we could not assimilate our own to ite With respect to the recent promotion of one meritorious sergeant in each regiment, it that system had been a sound one, they would not have had his noble friend (Lord Pal merston) telling the hon. gentleman opposite (Mr. French) the other night, that Sergeant Sullivan could not be pro moted, because it was impossible to promote more than one sergeant in a regiment. (Hear.) He had been told out of doers, and he might be told in that house, that the men themselves did not like to be promoted, because when so promoted they found their position uncomfortable. No doubt that would be so if they only promoted one sergeant in every regiment. That was the very reason why he asked the house to change the system. If they had a body of men promoted from the ranks, and thoroughly well-knit toge ther, he had no doubt they would live and act together in a satisfactory manner; bat if there were only compara tively a few of them promoted from time to time, and if they were regarded as black swans, as they were occasion ally, though he knew well that a gentleman would never so look upon them, the men so promoted would be liable to feel themselve s in a p ecu li ar a nd anomalous position. And surely he was justified in saying the gentlemen of England would never refuse to serve their country because they shared the honours and privations of the military pro fession with men w h o h a d r i sen f rom th e ran ks. (He a r, house should deve , 0 a ti n ui d lo lo e y n al i , e jeunrdy,heb but hear.) He kne w th e officers in the British army were asn '" a fair field and no l a y out " to another class of men. H e thatot asking o utltida that he t i ve hoped, if he should be followed in the debate by the noble lord at the head of the Government, that noble lord would not accuse him, as he had accused his hon. friend the mem isr for Aylesbury (Alr. L iyaid), of having indulged in " vulgar declamation against the aristocracy." He (Lord Goderich) had done no such thing—ho was only asking to have equal justice meted out to all classes of men in the army. Tacitus told us of the ancient Germans—" Reges ex nobilitate, et duces et virtute sumunt." He (Lord Goderich) would that we should henceforth choose our military commanders by the example of our German fore fathers—namely, for their merit and their merit alone, by which we should promote the efficiency of the army, and do justice to the claims of those brave men to whom, by common consent, much mere than to their commanders, did we owe the victories of the last campaign. We should then reward the heroes of the Alma, Balaklava, and In kerman—then, as in the days of the first Napoleon, every helmet weuld catch and reflect some beam of glory from victory; and we should build a sound and satisfactory military organisation, because we should lay its founda tions on the principles of reason and justice. Mr. F. PEEL said the system of which the noble lord complained might be faulty in principle and defective in theory ; but it could not be said with truth that in its ac tual working it had operated injuriously to the interests of this country or to the honour and credit of the Eng lish army. If he had all the armies of Europe brought to gather before him, and if he wanted to inquire to which among those armies he should. refer if -he-desired to find officers distinguished for their high sense of personal honour, eminent for their courage and for their unshrink ing bravery, and possessing also, in a superior degree, the habits and feelings of gentlemen, the army to which he should be referred would be the English army and its officers. (Hear, hoar.) The question which theyniest con sider was, whether these were the qualifications which were indispensable to English officers? He did not for a moment wish to underrate men taken from the ranks, familiar as they were with all the duties of a soldier, and with the feelings of the class from which they sprang ; but when he eonsidered the nature of our military system, and the im portant functions the officers of the English army had to fulfil, especially in the colonies, where they had often to assist in the administration of even civil affairs, he did not think there were any qualities more indispensable to an English officer than those to which he had alluded. (Hear.) The' noble lord's view was that the system to which hehad referred was a system which, it the terms of his motion, acted injuriously and unjustly to the private soldiers in the army. (Hear, hear.) But much of what the noble lord had said rested upon theory, to use his own expression; and he thought the noble lord had failed to point out in what way the present system did act injuriously on the private soldier or impeded the disposition to enlist into the service. The noble lord admitted that much had been done to facilitate the infusion of non-commissioned officers and privates among the officers of the army, and what he (the noble lord) wanted was that the authorities at the Horse Guards should systematise what theyhad been doing in that way; but the noble lord had not favoured the house with any definite plan of his own for doing that. His (Mr. Peol'e)epinion was that if they wanted to make the promotion of non-commis sioned officers a system, the system that now prevailed must give way. (Hear, and a laugh.) The question which the noble lord had raised affected the whole system of promotion in the army by purchase. He (Mr. Peel) had no prejudice against the advancement of the private soldier. if he found a man hi the ranks who had distin guished himself in any way, or shown an aptitude for command, he would say by all means let him not be lost sight of ; but he thought the noble lord brought a some what unjust accusation against the Government, when he said they had not acted with sufficient liberality in the promotion of non-cc mmi sinned officers. He would remind the noble lord that the Government had no power to act in this matter without the authority of the house. It would be unjust to supposo that at the present time no non-commissioned officers were advanced to the rank of commissioned officers. There were commissions which fell vacant by deaths, and the practice was in tilling up those commissions to bestow them gratuitously on meritorious persons, upon the responsibility of the Commander-in- Chief, making at the same time some provision for the widows and families of the officers so dying, and who had held previously those commissions. Those death commis sions were given in the first place to bring young cadets who had passed an examination at the college of Sandhurst and had proved their capacity for the military profession. They were given, in the next place, to the sons of aged and meritorious officers; and, again, to non-commissioned offi cers who had distinguished themselve s and been reported deservingas of promotion, and wh o , l e t hi m a dd—f or th a t was important—were themselves willing to accept a com mission—(hear )—for it 'a as not every nen-commissioned officer who would accept one. He found that the number of non-commissioned officers in the last five years who hid been proraoted in that way was 129, and that the number who had been promoted in regiments serving in the Crimea was not 66, as had been represented by the noble lord, but 90, so that 219 non-commissioned officers had been pro moted to commissions in the army within that period. He thought that was an indication of the manner in which the Government was disposed to . deal with this question. Besides, owing to the necessity for increasing the strength of the armies in the Crimea the commissions had to be increased in proportion, and 100 ensigneies had been dis posed of, which realised from 40,00 d/. to 50,0001., which would ferns a fund when the war was over, and when the half-pay would come to be considered. Now there were three modes by which vacancies beyond the first step could be filled up ; namely, by seniority—by merit —or by purchase. With respect to the system of put chase, he instanced the case of a major's vacancy occurring in a regiment. It would be offered for purchase to the senior captain — a span well acquainted with his profession and fully competent to the discharge of the duties ; but he was a man of no means,- a nd was obliged th ere f ore t o d ec li ne the seniority. The captain next to him had, perhaps, the means, and would obtain the majority, and in that case he thought a hardship weuld be inflicted upon the senior cap tain, and he should most certainly be glad if any means could be adopted for remedying such hardship. But the house should remember on the other hand that it, was not desirable to have eery old officers, and especially field officers, in the army, and yet the results of abolishing the purchase system and adopting that of seniority would be to extend the a vera g e a g e of o fficers of the army. greatly The hope of advancement, too, was almost entirely incon sistent with the system of promotion by seniority. The lowest, for instance, in a list of 16 captains might be de sirous of obtaining a higher position, and be ambitious of using his talents for the interest of his country in a wider but while it was necessary for him to sphere of action, advance by degrees through the whole of his senior cap tains to arrive at his majority, his prospects of attaining the object of his ambition would be very limited indeed. Ho believed, therefore, that the prospect of rapid promo tion by purchase had the effect of bringing into tne army thepublic spirit and enterprise of large amount of p d to a very the country. But it appeare be overlooked to a great extent that there were which required to be satisfi ed before th e comm ission could vin to ass en examnation, be obtained, every officer ha g_ qualification s for and being called upon to prove his qualification i ) ought to obtain. (Hear, ear. higher post which n o s hr. the ®te n t h h • beneficial effect of e purchase system was that Another t, of the aced officers. Con it got rid, to a great exten p madeold men to staut complaints were of app oint ing h h the rm vas come com mandsin the army ; but the way in w was come to be officered by comparatively young amen his very system of promotion mainly to be attributed to this very f • an old would be the inducement for by purchase. Where masted t 1l his ommis. not o officer to retire, if he were _ I ld ? .) t we.ei tin fact, sion upon leaving the service r to resort to some violent means be indispensably necessa (0, laugh)—and that would be a of removing the aged—y course of conduct extremely painful and hurtful to the feelings of all parties. If the present system of promotion by purchase were abolished, it would cause a complete stagnation in the current of yromotion. Ho found that the number of officers who had retired by purchase, durine the last five years, had been 30 lieutenant"-colonels, 29 majors - 93 captains, 115 1 ieutenarts, and 44 ensigns; and the total value of their commies , ons was not less than 500,00,3. (Hear, hear.) With respect to the third mode of promotion—byinerit as it is called—the case of Sergeant, Sullivan offered no great encouragement to any Govern ment to enter upon such a system. Who was to bo the judge of the relative merits of the different candidates for promotion? In this particular case the Horse Guards in structed Lordßaglan that he might promote one sergeant major of each regiment. The Government knew nothing of the grounds upon which each person was selected, and ever since it had been known that 'Sergeant Sullivan had not been selected, the Government had been attacked by ore hon. member after another, asking stay he had net been promoted. If they were to confide to the Govern ment the task of promoting men according to their merit, and of ascertaining the relative degrees of merit, the house would bo placing upon - the shoulders of the Government au invidious duty, which it would be impossible for them to discharge. (Hear, hear.) One effect of such a step also would be, to confer upon the regiments at home a great and undue advantage over those in the colonies, where the respective merits could not be so easily ascer tained. Promotion by merit would, in effect, become promotion by favouritism. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord who hronght forward the motion had stated that the sale of commissions was not legalised. In this respect the noble lord was in error, for the 49 G eo . cap. 126, ex pressly refers to the sale or purchase of commissions, upo; such terms as may be fixed by the Queen's regulations. But there were in connection with the system of promo tion many serious difficulties, not to be remedied without very deliberate consideration of the whole bearing of the question. The present value of the commissions held by officers in the army, supposing they were to buy up all the rights of those only who are now serving in the Crimea, would exceed the sum of two millions. In addition to this, the impracticability of effectually abolishing the sale and purchase of commissions must also be borne in mind. Sup. pose the house were to decide that no ensign should be ap pointed by purchase, yet when those officers came to rise from rank to rank, it would be found that money would always be brought to bear in order to displace those who stood in the way of the desired promotion. In India, al though no commissions were allowed to be sold, it fre quently occurred that, in order to induce an old officer to retire, those below him in rank raised a sum of money among them, and presented it to him in order to get him away. As a further evidence of the little -value to be placed upon regulations of this kind, it was a well-known fact that, although it was prohibited to give for a commis sion any larger sum than that stated in the _Queen's regu lations, sums considerably higher were frequently given by persons of wealth. (Hear, hear.) So far as he had been able to look into the question, he saw many advantages connected with the present system which he should be most sorry to see abolished. Upon the other hand, he saw considerable inconveniences in the plan, proposed by the noble lord, not the least of which was that complete stag nation in the current of promotion which would ensue. For these reasons he called upon the house not to give its sanc tion to the motion of the noble lord. (Hear, hear.) After a few words from Lord LOVAINE and Mr. °TWAY, Colonel SIBTHORP had heard with pleasure the speech of the hon. gentleman the Under-Secretary of War, and that of the noble lord (Lord Lovaine.) Our system had gone on for many years, and under it our army had ob tained a high character, and therefore he was opposed to change. It was' better to let well enough alone, and he was prepared to vote against the motion of the noble lord. Mr. WARNER agreed with the noble lord who sub mitted the motion to the house, that the only second rule to adopt was that of a combination of seniority and merit. But there wax a question, which had not been touched, of very great importance—where were we to get our soldiers from at all ? 'We could not resort to the conscription, and men were unwilling to enlist. He feared we had syste matically endeavoured to degrade the men in our army. Hon. members spoke disparagingly of the foreign legion last year, and the consequence of the unjustifiable and most offensive character given the men likely to compose inch a force was, that the Government failed to raise it. (Hear, hear.) Much the same course was pursued towards our own soldiers. We treated them as if they belonged to an inferior class, and we subjected them to degrading punish ments, and the consequence was that soldiers would not come forward willingly when wanted. He hoped that the system of promotion by purchase would be done away with. There were two things wanted—military talent at the head of an army, and a number of men sufficient to maintain the force ; and to secure these two things a change of system was necessary. Captain SCOBELL regarded the reply made by the hon. Secretary of War as a routine speech. (Hear, hear.) In the presence of the Prime Minister he should say that un less this question was taken up seriously by him, it would run away with his Government. Matters could not remain as they were, and this was a topic that would not go to sleep until it was put to rest. (A laugh.) Looked at as an affair of buying and selling, was it, he asked, proper or rational that the Queen's commissions should be bought and sold ? No other army in the world did such a thing. How would it be if the principle of purchase was applied to the non-commissioned grades? Supposing privates were allowed to purchase sergeantcies, how would that work? What sort of sergeants would we have ? Why, our ser geants would become worthless instead of being, as now, most excellent—for, as a class, the sergeants and corporals were the most perfect in the British army. i They learn their duties by degrees, and they win their promotion by merit alone. With regard to the buying and selling sys tem, it was so rooted in the British army that it would be difficult to eradicate it; but some beginning might be made. No more purchases should be allowed after a given date, and those who had previously purchased should be held harmless ; and then, should it require two or three millions to get rid of the whole vicious system, let us pay it, and assume a right position. He held that the pur chasing of commissions did an injury to the aristocracy, for dull men by it got over the heads of active and one' , getic men, and the character of the whole suffered in public estimation. Let the system be changed, and let merit be the cause of promotion, and the aristocracy would then bear comparison with any class in the community. The array was at present made a sort of plaything, and men who had no taste or talent for 'military life en tered it and left it without ever thinking of making it a serious study. But the term aristocracy was a very loose one, for who could say where aristocracy began and where it ended ? There was an intermediate class, and this class formed a considerable portion of those who were interested in the purchase of commissions. Hon. members had all the same object in view—to secure the honour and safety of the country, and to maintain the credit of thearmy. If they could get an able soldier who was a marquis, they should glory in him. Nothing was so satisfactory as to see rank united with talent ; but then it was doubly un satisfactory to see rank without talent getting on at a double pace, while merit was left behind. (Hear.) It had been said Parliament had been niggard in voting the sums necessary for the maintenance of our army ; but that was not so. The army estimates were never refused by the House of Commons, and they were not chargeable with the inefficiency of our military establishments. Nothing with an officer was se high a certificate in the eye of the public as that he was a Waterloo man ; but nothing• could be more wrong than to assume that all Waterloo men were heroes, and fit, in strength and talent, for the arduous ser vice of the present day. These men were worn out and past their prime, and it was not wise to put forward age when they could get youth and stamina and talent com bined. The gallant officer the Secretary of the Admiralty Board had given the House his opinion of the Horse Guards. He had said that every one knew it was not unlit or capa city, but interest and connection, which ruled promotion there. That was pretty strong coming from the Ministe rial bench, and showed that the question had made con siderable way in the country. He said that they should not be satisfied with a mere consolidation of departments, but that they must reform the Horse Guards and the army —and he asked how they could have generals when the first thing they did was to compel men to lodge a sum of money and then to purchase every step ? (Hear.) The whole question rested on this point—Was merit to be superior to money in the army, or money to merit ? In the profes sion to which he belonged it was true that commissions could net be purchased, but gentlemen could obtain them in the Admiralty by other moans which he need not particula rise. Many able and gallant officers were passed over and neglected in his profession, and he was himself one of the neglected. A noble lord in another place who had held office in the administration before the last, said that if the administration of the army were assimilated to that of the navy, the army would be a hotbed of jobbery and trickery. The fact was that both wanted setting to rights. In one a man might job his way if he had plenty of money ; in the other a man might job his way if ho had plenty of interest (Hear.) He did not deny that war gave a man some chance of promotion, but he was speaking of the ordinary state of things. When they could find sergeants and corporals suffi ciently educated to advance them, it was wise to give them promotion; but many sergeants and corporalshad net educa tion enoagh to be advanced to commissions. In such a case they should reward them otherwise, and he was a great ad vocate for the establishment of the order of merit, which would descend to the lowest man in the army. (fleer, hear.) He would heartily supportfthe motion, and refer to a few instances, taken at random from the Army List, to show the consequences of the present system. He found in one regiment an officer of eight years' standing; the next to him was also of eight years' standing; but then follow°, officers of sixteen, fourteen, and twelve years' standing. In another regiment the first man was of eight years' stand ing; the neat man of thirty years' standing ; the next of eight, and the next of sixteen. How could things go on satisfactorily according to that system ? (Hoar.) They saw the grey-headed man placed behind the youth, and that « as enough to damp the ardour of any but an English army, which it would take a great deal to damp. (Hear.) He believed that in the Dragoons things were in the same way He found that an officer of nine years' standing was above officers of fourteen and eighteen years' standing. This was the first motion of a series that was coming before the house, and he trusted the house would deal with it iu a suffi ciently encouraging way, that was the proper place to make regulations to change the laws, and he trusted the noble lord at the head of the Government would come forward and make the changes that were called for by the times. Let them do it slowly if they would, but let them not stand still. (Hear.) The system could not stand, and if any further disasters should occur the Government would be tripped up on this, if on no other question. (Hear.) Sir J. WALSH always thought that one of the conse quences of the disastrous and ill-conceived expedition to Sebastopol would be that it would throw discredit upon the whole military system. (Hear.) Their regimental system had worked well, and might bear comparisontwi that of any other nation in Europe. Th e whole, cf_ o s military annals demonstrated its superiority, i whi h sea t substantiated and confirmed by the recent ► and ex ploits of their army. (Hear, hear.) He mustgi his ve vote against the motion of the noble viscount.ht for - L o rd SEYMOUR said the nobl e lord who brou,cy ward this motion pleaded that death vacancies should be given to private soldiers. Now what would be the effect of this? The country was calling for younger officers ; the certain effect of this system would be the introduction of older officers. The country was calling for educated °Ri cers ; under this system education must be given up alto gether. Then, intim() of peace, this system would of ne cessity degenerate into a combined system of seniority sad favouritism. The two systems, in fact, ware now in ope ration in our own army. In the artillery there was no purchase— in the line there was. The consequence was that in the artillery there Was the greatest difficulty in getting rid of old officers. If the- same system were adopted in the line, the pension list would be swelled to a frightful extent, or the army would be encumbered by old and incapable officers. He denied that purchase excluded qualification, which, on the contrary, might be carried as high as in any of the Continental armies. He complained that the motion before the house condemned the present system without offering any other plan in its place. Mr. J. BALL supported the motion as a means of in creasing the number of recruits, and he contended that, from the changed habits of society, working men were now b.:come fit associates for the English gently. Lord ELCHO objected to the motion as unnecessary, because it was admitted that, within -a very recent period, nearly 100 commissions heel been given to private soldiers. He could not agree to the declaration that the present system was injurious to the army or to the public service; and though he would rejoice to see more of the privates promoted, still he could not, in obedience to the pressure from without, adopt an abstract resolution which there was no feasible plan of carrying into practice. Sir DE LACY EVANS, who was received with loud cheers from both sides of the house, said—l have not come down to this house for the purpose of making what is gene rally called a speech, but as this is a subject upon which I have on former occasions offered my humble opinion to the house, I did thick it my duty to offer a very few words upon the motion of my noble friend, and they shall be very few. The noble lord who has just so well addressed the house has expressed his great apprehension lest the house should be driven into some imprudent resolution in conse quence of a cry which has arisen in the country upon this subject. I, at all events, am one of the humble individuals —for the house holds a great many others who - are in the same situation—who are not in the slightest degree influ enced by that cry. (Hear, hear.) lam merely offering an opinion at this moment which has been formed, not hastily, but after long and serious deliberation. Now, there have been various objections raised to this motion of the noble lord the member for Huddersfield; one has been urged by the Under-Secretary of the Wer Department—but I am not quite certain, from the transmutation of offices that is taking place, whether I am addressing him by his right title ; but the hon. gentleman has dealt with the financial part of the question. Both he and the noble lord the mem ber for Totness dwelt strongly upon the results of the com mission of 1840, at the head of which, say they, was the illustrious Duke of Wellington. There were some other commissions referred to by the noble lord behind, but that was the principal one. Now, I must confess, sir, these commissions have not supreme authority over my mind, because the decisions of these commissions were, in point of fact, only the decisions of the noble duke himself. There was no military man upon any of these commissions who sincerely believed in the decisions—(oh, oh)—because we all well know that it was no use for any military man to presume to dictate to the noble duke. That is not to be wondered at, because the transeendantabilities and military genius of the Duke of Wellington were sufficient to overawe, not to convince, any soldier. No doubt, those decisions were founded upon the deliberate convictions of the noble duke ; but are we te remain for ever under the law of the Modes and Persians? (Hear.) Is there to be no change, because one great man pronounced an opinion, which opi nion was not probably espoused out of regard for the army, but was perhaps based upon other opinions not connected with the army at all, but opinions connected with politi cal matters—as opinions connected with the maintenance of the aristocracy, which the noble duke conceived to be of more importance than the efficiency of the army. (Oh, oh, and cries of no, no.) Hon. members may cry oh, oh, if they will, but that may have been so, for the noble dukel after the war became quite a changed mac. Ido not pre tend to say that his political opinions entirely guided the decisions of the noble duke, but he was a totally different man with regard to the army while he was a politician to what he was when he had the command of the British forces in the field. (Hear.) When he was so in command, and we were at war, he was most precise in his opinions about the army ; but after the war he seemed to treat military matters quite as a secondary consideration, com pared with political affairs. (Hear.) In fact, political mat ters had become more the object of his anxiety than mili tary, and therefore I do not bow to the decisions of these commissions, because they must have been all predeter mined. The noble duke's opinion was always in favour of the existing state of things ; but he was not content with simply holding that opinion, but he resolved that, inas much as the army under his own command had performed all the actions that he had directed admirably well, there was no sort of necessity, and could be no sort of necessity, for any alteration or improvement in military affairs. I ' believe he was just as clearly of the same opinion with re gard to politics, but, nevertheless, he was obliged to re tract some of his notions in a few political matters. (A. laugh.) The noble duke, even with his great mind, was subject to prejudices. Ie was opposed, for instance to the introduction of metal caps instead of flints. He was also opposed to the introduction of that most admirable weapon of which we have made so much use, and from which we have derived so much benefit—the Minie rifle. And are we to be told the noble duke's views and opinions must be dual? Are wo never to deviate from his old system, no matter how great the improvement suggested may be ? (Hear.) Well, then, to come more immediately to the motion before the house, if purchase is such an admirable thing, why is it not introduced into all the institutions of the country? Why are not civil offices put up for sale ? Why are not Secretary of Stateships even put up for sale? (A laugh.) Why not introduce the system into the navy ? Why not add it to the artillery? But, sir, it is inconsis tent with the institutions of the country ; it is opposed to the spirit of the age, and since it is neither desired nor ap proved by the majority of the community, it is disgraceful for the house to continuo to sanction it. (Cheers.) But, sir, some gentleman, with a paltry sixpenny economy, tells us that if we attempt to establish a system of promotion by merit, it will cost the country 100,0001. a-year. That is the statement, I believe, of the hon. gentleman who has been selected to hold the second place connected with the management of the war. It will cost us, forsooth, 100,0001. I think it will be cheap if we get it even at that rate. (Hear.) Now, sir, it has been said that non-commissioned officers are promoted; but then they must be the senior officers of their regiments. If they have served a certain number of years they are past the time fir promotion ; but if they happened to belong to a different class the number of years would not be so narrowly scrutinise& It is said that if the system of purchase is abolished, it will only give place to a system of favouritism ; but what is the course which really takes place under the system of put clean ? The fact is, that the system of purchase affords opportunities for facilitating favouritism. It entirely ex cludes the sons of the commonalty, whilst it admits the sons of thenobility and gentry. Ido not wish to exclude the sons of the nobility and gentry ; on the contrary, I desire much to see a larger portion of them in the army than of the commonalty. (Hear.) What I object to is, that the system of purchase excludes and confines from opportunites of raising themselves to the highest ap pointments in the service persons who by nature are pos sessed of talents which might enable them to render the greatest services to their country. (Hoar.) It has been well observed by an hon. gentleman who has spoken to night, "Why do you not put up the seats on the bench for sale ?" The bench stands high in the respect of the country, and it has been shown that what occurs on the bench never occurs in the array-ethat is to say, that the sons of persons in the meet humble positions have risen to the highest honours, which under the present system is impossible in the army. (Hear.) Nay, it is almost im possible for evlp the sons of the gentry to rise high in the army. It is eXmost impossible even for them. What is the situation of persons in my humble position? We are beaten by time—we are kept back until we are worn out — (hear) —whilst others who can command the means rise up, and ate selected for the command of corps in the army. I really think that when the hen, gentleman (Mr. F. Peel)—l forget for what place he sits—when he tells us that 50 or 100 commissions were appointed to the army in the Crimea, and when he impresses this upon us as a great economy, that by the sale of these 50 or 100 commissions all ulterior expense to the country will be avoided, I really think he is putting the question on a verylow and inferior ground. (Hear.) I think it is a most discreditable view of the subject, that these persons—because they possess more money, or at least their fathers—should be put over the heads of those non-commissioned officers, not to say those private soldiers, who have borne all these dangers and all these difficulties and hardships with unexampled fortitude and bravery. (Cheers.) You will set aside these 50 or 100 commissions for what ?—because 50,0001. will be made of them. This is false economy altogether. If this be a good thing, you are bound to carry it out in all insti tutions. You have no alternative. We are, however, gra dually approaching an amelioration of the system, not withstanding ; for I find it laid down that, at all events, officers of the army must be gentry. There was a time when it was contended that they must be all nobility. (Hear.) There have been good officers of all classes. Some of the armies of the continent require their officers to have ten or twelve quarterings of nobility. Princes have also become great officers, nobles have become great officers, and so have the gentry; but let us compare the number of great officers which have arisen in countries where the highest classes have obtained the highest com mands with the numbers of great officers which have ap peared in other countries—for instance, at the period of revolutions, when all classes have had a gree scope for the development of their talents. You have fifty in one case to one in the other. In France a number of great officers arose at the time of the revolution, but it so happened that we had one superior to them all—but that had nothing to do with the question. Compare the number, then, when there was a free scope given to talent. In our country, at the time of the revolution, which was of a somewhat dif ferent character, the person who distinguished himself most was not a gentleman of great power or position. The person who distinguished himself most was Mr. Oliver Cromwell. (Hear, and laughter.) There is another point which I wish to bring under the notice of Government. There is a great amelioration going on in the people of this country, and especially with regard to the army. Let them read the general orders of the Duke of Wellington, and compare the statements, which cannot be contested, in those general orders with any general order of any army o f recent (late, and they will find proofs positive that crimes and offences of every description took place in a vastly greater ratio at that timo than they do now. Indepen dently of that, in the small force which I commandedis house 3.i years ago, and which was pretty well abused in this h that there was no un favourable circumstances, it so happened --(laughter)—which was collected together under such isbrnent was called case of capital crime, and no capital p re " Wh t a wonderful g Un at Dumbr of people f w o h r o in kn th ew at force. the had !" It was not by good dis cipline, you must have ,but was ril most imperfect• for that was necessarily facts (il have eer' h s e a a i r d ) to me, Y h t t a even at that time a compete proof in my min . . there ' t amelioration in the population of this had been a erea country. (dear, hear.) It was also the case in that army which has now gone out to the Crimea, and which was before that in Turkey . I cannot call to mind anything like a capital crime committed by any of those soldiers. (Hear, hear.) They showed great obedience and pubordi nation, and is this the time that they are to he excluded as a sort of helots, and are not to entertain those aspira tions and hopes of distinction which persons belonging to other classes of society may entertain ? When I passed amongst the pickets and outposts, and indeed in action, it often occurred'to me how painful it was to see those men exposing themselves to such dire miseries, toil, and wounds, and to almost certain death, eventually, from disease, with so little of anything to hope from the future. (Cheers.) I would appeal to gentlemen, to the lords on the Treasury Bench, who have power to alter this state of things, that those are men like ourselves—(cheers)—who in a conventional sense are not gentlemen, which is a ten* not always used in a right sense. I believe that there are persons of high rank who are not truly gentle men in feeling, whilst you will find persons of humble birth essentially gentlemen. (Cheers.) I think it is con trary to the spirit of the orders of our Sovereign to sup pose that anybody in a military rank is not a gentleman. Vat I trod, that those persons of high authority will lay it down as a principle, and will be determined to proceed upon a more liberal system than has hitherto been fol lowed in these subjects. You will then find that persons of still higher condition and better education will then enter the army. (Hear, hear.) I think that there will arise no sort of inconvenience or danger whatever from the adoption of what I consider a very moderateegtrloopm si an tion on the part of the noble lord. The heh. if is almost the member for Bury (Mr. F. Peel) says that impossible to abolish a system of purchase. We wore d o awa with close b- once told thas it was impossible t o the s ystem y of purchase roughs. (Laughter.) Why , s ir, itself, because a s a n officer dies his 11 may do away with commission is vacant , an d provision is made for his wife • • have commissions and family, But 50 or 100 persons with llc = ~" -- : ----- : --- --Irrims-p been sent out to the army en the Crimea. I think ' - is j w -...r.:sis most unjustifiable and most shameful to send . o ' -.. ;1 % " 100 gentlemen, because they have money in tr - -..e:e sAI to purchase, to the Crimea, over the heads o ss :t : ' as eaieSA •*, have been so long risking their lives every heitf‘ 9 ...,* "f% -es ! • N I time. It is said to be impracticable. There t. i s., :01 11 1 3 1, ... .. :. 4 which has not some counteracting advantage.'sles Ad - i k et,,....- - 44 t s 4 mean to say that you do not secure a greater econ_kiegUaely: greater number of young men, but the preponderating: - se, - jury, which would repress all ambition and hopes Wis. tinction, is very great. I say it is altogether a false eco nomy. What is the consequence of selling the command of a regiment ? It is in itself absurd to commit 1,000 men, not for a moment, but for a long period, to the command of one person because he happens to have two qualifica tions—that he is not a very Junior man, and that he has the command of money. Nobody of course is to be blamed. With these advantages be must of course be an unobjec tionable person, because he perhaps has never been found fault with ; but that is not a reason for committing 1,000 men morally and physically to his charge, because he hap pens to have 6,0001. You ought to go on with this system, and give a brigade for 15,0001. , and so on. Undoubtedly youth is of importance. I wish I had a little of it. (Hear.) Ido net think that youth is the only qualification. There are a great many old blockheads as well as young block heads, and in that case it becomes highly detrimental to the public good. We have been told to-night what duties are required of an English officer. I have already had to demur to that authority. I confess that I am not a per son so qualified, and still I do not think that a Man be cause he has 5,060/. is fit to be a gaoler or a judge_ It is very unimportant what class of officers you have in peace ; but with important events like the present your purchase system is totally fallacious, and 'will bring great calami ties instead of beneficial results. It may be said that we are going to have a peace again, and that it may be for forty years. I confess I do not incline to that opinion. Sup posing, however, that the war is to go on. Ii my humble opinion, it is worse economy to admit a system which does not bring forward for the time of need the most competent and able officers, by distinction and ability, in the army. Why is it that gentlemen who have power and money get into high ranks, so that Government have no option but to employ them? and when they do, what aro the con sequences? They are obliged to provide them with double, or even treble, the number of troops that would be other wise required. Nay, what is still more probable; and what I believe often does take place, wars and campaigns are prolonged for a series of years. If this is the case, and I have no doubt of it, it becomes of the most serious conse sequence to know on what eystem`the army is to be com manded. I think it impossible to defend the . present system. We shall be told that favouritism will have free scope. Human nature is such that favouritism will always have free scope ; but, in my opinion, you give great stimu lus to favouritism by the system of purchase. If there is any country in. hich favouritism ought less to be feared, it is in this country, where everything is published, and is liable to the check of public opinion. I hope I may be per mitted to allude to the case of Sergeant Sullivan, which personally concerns myself. (Hear.) I hope I shall not , be accused of evil intention; but I have no option. I think a great mistake was made by the authorities on this subject. As the commander of a division, and not only that, but on that occasion as commanding in chief, I re commended several officers and a sergeant, and I am sorry I did not recommend three or four privates. (Hear, hear.) I certainly did think about it, but I thought it might be ob jectedto; butes commandino in chief on th e s p o t I did recom menl a sergeant,andl thinethat it was not correct,when all the officers whom I recommended were promoted,topass over that one name. If my whole report lead been unworthy of consideration, why of course I could only resign myself to it ; but it was not decorous to me that one name should be omitted, nnlessthere wassome reason to suppose the man , culpable and of bad character. There was no such ground. He was a most respectable individual, and had previously distinguished himself at Alma. (Cheers.) The noble vis count at the head of public affairs the other night gave a dashing answer to an hon. member, and said that orders had been sent out to the Crimea to promote a sergeant in each regiment, and that there was an end of the matter. What is the result of that communication ? It goes to the commander of the forces on the spot, he sends to the com manders of divisions, and they to the commanders of regi ments. So it eventually happens that it rests with the corn mender of the regiment. He is not called upon to select a distinguished man but a sergeant, the most prominent non coaimissioned officer. The most prominent is the sergeant major, and the consequence is that the serjeant-major re ceives his epaulettes. So far as that goes it is a very useful step. But it does not meet the other question at all. The question is, is it right or not to give encouragement to acts of great courage ? (Hear.) I do not want that to be carried to an improper extreme, for it it were it might induce men to commit acts of rashness. But there are various occa sions when the devotion of individuals is of great use, and saves perhaps hundreds of lives by their firmness in resist ing the enemy at particular points. (Hear.) Are they to be set aside, and a man taken merely because he is a ser geant-major? Sergeant-majors are very meritorious and useful men, but if you say they are the only persons as non-commissioned officers to be promoted, and that the ad jutants are to be the only parsons promoted among the 1 subaltern officers, you will put an end to professional exer- - tion, and bring it to a seniority system. (Hear.) lam op posed to seniority, as well as to purchase, on principle. (Hear.) You never can have competent men to direct the national forces if yen allow seniority to be the governing principle, and on that point I do not think your present regulations are satisfactory to the country. A rule exists in some countries with regard to naval and military com manders which it would be very desirable to adopt here fer the purpose of putting an end to the complaints and injus tice of seniority. With regard to this particular promotion I say that a direct professional affront—unintentionally, I am sure—has been put upon me, and that the course which has been taken shows a want of willingness in the higher ranks to advance_on this subject. (Hear, hear.) Mr. SIDNEY HERBERT said that the gallant general was an example that merit, at all events, was not always overlooked in the army ; and he rejoiced to hear him give an opinion upon those subjects, after having returned from a field where he had established for himself an undying reputation. It-any rate, he had shown that in one in stance merit and gallantry and military skill were better passports to the highest honours the country could give than those which any political connexion could bestow. In considering this question they had travelled a good deal out of the resolution of the noble lord, and had discussed . not only the question whether or not non-commissioned • officers should have commissions, and in what number and proportion, but they had discussed what ought to be the • rule of promotion in the army—whether it ought to be seniority simply, whether it ought to be seniority accom panied by purchase, or whether it ought tobe merit. The accusation against the army was that it was essentially an "aristocratic profession." But those who used these words had not clearly defined what they meant. An lion, and learned gentleman said that the army was the closest pro fession in England, but the gallant member for Bath (Cap tain Scobell) claimed that distinction for the navy. If the hon. member for West Surrey had been present, he would have said, Look at the bench—can yon find any gentleman there who has found his way there through the . . House of Commons? (Laughter.) He(Mr. Herbert)didnot wish te put the cases on parallel grounds, because they were dissimilar. But when it was said the army was the most aristocratio profession, he supposed the meaning way that it was the profession in which, in proportion to te whole number, more persons of the higher rank engaged themselves. He did not know whether that was the fact or not, but he said there was no profession in England—not the Church, not the navy, not the law—which would show so many persons who had risen to eminence, or to a station to which they were not born, as in the army. Now was it a fact that men were not promoted from the ranks? Last year 88 non-conee missioned officers were promoted to be commissioned officers. ' And what was the history of these men? They entered into the army as privates—they were men who had handled the plough or the shuttle—they had received a good education in the army, had risen to be non-commissioned officers, and then got their commissions. The effect of a commis sion was 'a diploma, such as no other profession could give ; and the terms " officer" and "gentleman" were held to be identical. Persons of very hilmble origin might be found in the law—at least, their fathers were of humble origin. One of our Lord Chancellors was the son of a man of very humble origin, but he was a man who had received an expensive education. The Archbishop of York was of humble origin, but he had received the very highest and most refined university education. That was not the case, however, with men who entered the army. It might be the most aristocratic profession, but it certainly was the most democratic profession, for it afforded the greatest number of instances of persons who from low professions had risen to higher professions. (Hear.) In 1845, when he was Secretary-at-War, it fell to his lot to make some changes with respect to the good conduct warrant. He increased the pay of the soldier by shortening the period in which for good conduct he could obtain a larger amount of pay. He found that the number of non-commissioned officers promoted in each year to be commissioned officers was small, varying from twelve to eighteen or twenty, and that many more commissions were offered than were ao-: cepted. When a man was promoted to be a commissioned officer, ho was sometimes positively ruined by the ex pense. (Hear, hear.) He had to borrow money to buy his uniform, and if in the cavalry he had to purchase a horse, and thus got into debt, and became discontented and un comfort .blo. By a change which he introduced, non commissioned officers, when promoted to be commissioned officers, received 1001. ; and if they were in the cavalry, ' they received 1501. (Hoar, hear.) His object was to give the non-commissioned officers the means of being pro moted without injury to thew - selves, and the effect of the step which he took was to make their promotion more easy and more frequent. (Hear, hear.) He thought it an ad vantage that non-commissioned officers should occasion ally be promoted. But it was necessary to look, not only to the good of indiiiduels, but to the good of the service. It certainly was for the good of the service that non-commissioned officers should be promoted, but there must be some limit to the numbers. Some persons asserted that the aristocracy ought to be favoured in the army, but lie thought there were very few persons so foolish as to entertain that opinion. (Hear.) But to say that a non commissioned officer ought to be promoted merely because he was in that position, was falling into as great an error on the other side. (Hear, bear.) The 'aristocracy ought not to have any favour. He held that as a sacred rule. The aristocracy of England were very powerful. And why ? Because they were rich ? Because they were of anc i en t birth ? Not at all ; but b cause they mixed with their fellow-men on the same footing, and they ought not to he handicapped, so as to make their promotion more difficult than that of any other class. In this respect there ought to be a perfect equality. Could there be any more sensible or rational reason for appointing any man to a profession, or, still more promotin • him, than the old rule, deter dignioni,--you want the fittest man? (Hear, hear.) IV had been said that the increased good con duct in the army was owing to the amelioration of the conduct of the population geberally. But he w ould say more. He would take an average numberose w ho enlist of peasants in the army and an average number of and he would say that ten years hence the soldier was the better man of the two, others and to and for this reas o n—he had been trained— he had been taug ht to respec t better ed ucation than could be given in either re. spect himself. The soldi e r r recei ved a the National Schools or the British and Foreign Schools. In the army a man w as t a k en who knew more tha n he had to teach ; and he knew some regimental sehoolinasters who gave lectures an d l essons to their offieers. (Hear, hear.) Great complaints had been made of the inefficiency of the staff in the army. Last year he proposed a system of instruction for the officers, and he insilted upon a rigid examination for every promo tion, at every step. That plan, he was sorry to say, was still in abeyance. Thera was this difficulty even with re gard to the instruction of staff captains—ho had selected the ablest men, men who had passed a high degree at Sand hurst, but Lord Hardinge took them immediately, and seat them to the Crimea on the staff. Ho trusted the Un der-Seereteey at War would keep en eye on the subject and again re-open the question. He did not say that by examination and promotion they wo uld g et the best men, but on the average they would do so. The present ex amination on commissions was the most ridiculous thing imaginable, whilst the examination for naval cadets was very simple, For the army, a young man was sent to k Sandhurst and crammed with books written by certain S I offal 84k 72 13 i 121 49 8i 363 7 N 1