The Sun. — London, England, 1842-02-17 00:00:00

'lent did therefore ,4 eduction as other : sand the reasons ~ the other side. ! was calculated to . , etor as the farnicr ~ , ard to a s liding • ~, t ap ft Wa4 19V - .. , 'l4. attentively itilt; - • „, great advantage ~,,I i extent he ail"' , ~, t advantages in a ~„ e Lot ttbandon tlie : ~,,.! l ea corn was i't.itli n . : d' to the farmer ; for ~,-,V, 6s. or Bs-be to the -• I , lsinore was 255. or •",, ''' best principle a r • lual as possible, end tr as pOriSible to the •, r tiding scale, framed etained a fixed duty ' . A Lle at each end Of it. ..., ' one, as it made the . : and descent as perhaps, be more ore to the importer Baronet ; still he to tlic agricultur al • had from his cott 2 . ~ ering accounts of ifs iltract from a letter red mode of ta king - n say, that, under the strong men, ~ • Lade fortunes ; the ,al, were frequently ,;; ware of many in' :," rnour to represent . ~ !mselyes to have . A e present scale of ' "' Ind flourishing fbri . •'', be well knows tt/ . lad paid any often- , ;aid before, he WIL S . ical, and thinking .e of the Right .• a.—(Tory c heers.) •• .e of the House de-• ieasure which con,' iir Walter Jon es) it was too much' ) conciliate without ~ ', , pposition benches.) . • ' / 'or the sake of colt; 3 ~,., le was convin een en made not alone • ••,, but that it waS. :,/. public, and for' • ; -1 e He was convineeti' ~,,j all classes of the class.—(Hear.) ',..: 1f ntcd, it might ov ' 4 me views take n '' - .he present measure. , • ~, Du, who say that '' th e ' . !at deal too lo w Were the ge ntle' ~,' erence who thin,l 4 ,. ...'' a high. Nowt . maxim that virtue ' •' ril, he (Sir Walter • scheme proposed hi • r best that could hee, Ye his most earns`' • to reply to - tyl le before by the lie the Member f i e! ) stated that a e',; zld lower wages ; er such a. fallacy'• crease of wages de: ' he price of b reite i it the attention °4' ovisions. In 18 ,. 1 1 . there was 'no re able that, and ther e , 'ages.—(Hear, eat for the eri„„ 6 l . it was 54,00 0,0 w" r year, in the pocke ° purchase of' cloth 5 )rt.—(Hear, hear.) I been htid upon Or habits , of Jiving e„ ▪ From our grealo degree of civilization,- ',; 'ree of comfort. tesman endeavou big,;„4:l • used wine as icr and better the- er. It was 0111 11 1 the lower classeg At the close of -bread, rye, and the comm unity ¢F its which had t ake country bees,lll.4-4 ( :i leman had spot-011'0i v Was he prer r aci' , l was to be attriDeu -- ,Jr (Hear, hear.) in a rather bolo,„41n:58flt gentlemen M IP y. rich lie was serkA l e, 'the House ; an .I,„xtet; ;ping thatproP oo „ 4 o ,'' ntluence his ophl`y - e ,l'.'' ie petitions preset' :s. Now there 11 signed by 2.59, 93 ,„ m that should ' l 4: ' He also said,' to a modificati°;• )t, why, then, did net ? He (fr. rer; connected with in ' illation on this poiP:' , to any modificati:.. iything from t, 1 1 0 ,:r ration amongst tne,. were in fact sent:a the Corn-laws , r-law.—( Hear her on this P °- o'' !tiller burtheriS in a proper waY , he should susre tto be moved. j 4(, a case being 1 1 / 1 6 01.''' (, mrthened more .°4 , yore, entitled, 1 ? al it t case were frianc,:of ire burthened t 'titer amount of r on the indulgen ee w ie was the repregf' 1 4,.; ' porta nee. The 3 0,5 e had said that rh.;,es he representatlere were sent cis g the l a w in its sent there ag 0 1' ' altural, but of vould, thereforev;)o Ey (Roxburgh) t i `„ . . o (l s ' iency of boah s"..re, xlucing his Ineos't .: :he price of %i'llC9S,;' Ater. Now he • ' a reasonable Flee r a suflicieu t .00 'he great q-- oesti ) dependent on to) , creasing popuLie erso int uponforeVorti pplics from our l •present " e A f. thought, that tb ri ng , far from conv, i/1 71,ffe - ' , favour of the oat pile port at ion of corn glafliol,;:, )1* seven millions,1000:, the Noble Ler 4 _, l P would be doublet`lo:-.: I rOOO,OOO qUarrie.-„d 111., would be expor'.so4-', the curren pat d Teased issues, loot' iut of the ot 0( sed b y the 44t, 1838 fr0m1,317, that the was ore her cause, surelY, boot which existed, 1 " t 4 0$ would be verY Piegjegi it would be verYSot Df the country, 0 ° o ctt ;ulated by aoi re' ted, and all IPC of its looked for o h , -( Hear.) Th en t, y's Governiner, Ile aas they ould, belt le of ake one bale 0 10 • 0,0 er authority 0 1° po t aid that it via s ., t ne ceso l, t •de , the ice of the ar 'ot en this cotinurloreigit r ith respect 1.0 theV country agalq trl de Tibarrassm if they 0,00 and that, if le (.00(13 of this co by; It had been grg° efi, were altered, our ivy eared to him that and if in taking ° ( r , v,as a (Treat OP° is, there v;ais no ill. ` o , s were still Pleb eer, no connection heto If he took f.o°l'd, '"' he . F four years, _„ort. rst period, the elore ear 163'2, thertei leo ice they inirr r t oitity.--( Wa waf• ow that there t to ports and the u exports amori,u(rliil:4 ON., and et, „be great distresstc; former year. tribu lab ti iC i t was riot at had D e • agriculture , it the amount n!, aot, rr,lll.op. %One ; ca Sant{ abort ., d and thirty In ,0 er hieh he voshrt ire d he thought Oa] a ronet be c or e ice industry. I\ted tros different it—he 1,, liedP:7l:; ----------------"---------the country •he d ' a not wish to undervalue -.. ed it, and he thought that the House was bound to pay attention to the facts dads , brought before it. He re ''retled' however, that it had been stated be the Hon. Mem ber fer tshffild, that the number of uninhabited houses e as a proof of that distress. If they compared the population, boor 1 1u 83 1 + with th ber of ' • • e Population in 1841, and the. stead„„ol„htted htitises • then and now, Inthey 414)11;,tiiivati _ ohn : :nottlidrgutnent in favour of existing distress • find onein favour of ros erity. In relation to the po tha;000 th uninhabited houses instead of 198,000. The fact was, be found that there ought now to be The into had been over -building as well s over-production. , - 4,i i t i l j n ee to Which he referred would show that the thedis i(ts-i ' u'at occasion was referred, not to the Coin-law• , , but t ) m ania for speculation and the proceedings Atthe Bank. 1 aPPeared in the course of the arguments of theti-Corn dailw Party that they, in demanding cheap food, did mean to re ; " the ova es' the operative • and, therefore, he could no !ee what benefit would be enjoy e d operative; by the working man If he could buy corn at 4ss , instead of 86s Ross-tr, if at the same time his wanes wt re reduced from • • t°7B * 6 d., or from 12s to Os But his (the Ncble Lord's chief reason for supporting . the ' measure of the Baronet r the fa r t 1 ''s as a conviction that in times of plenty it . would secure food in Ta rmer, and in times of scarcity it would provide , _ Right Hon abundance for the labourer. 0 ' fl r the ... Q Prl V' is ed to be introd • d wouldruin the farmers in ( times I b• A L .‘ ce ~ • • and injure the poor limo r s eeqroying his protection, deposits of In terms of scarcity by destroying the more re- Pain in the bended storehouses. It was the il ' l a e rk a eti that the plat, should be introduced N e r r h e en, n d o u ffi ri e n e g iii .„ i i t i. , pars the Honourable Gentlemen !r is e - et 1 they bad vrnsiAtltit at the be a m" the power , of carrying it into effect, they iu4ti "thing abb,,out it. ' At that ' the i:" be Madness to make a change. The meas i ure en _ y I object ad of the Government tnn de e clared en t n h i t ne it t 14.; satisfaction, and it appeared to him that t te in fhtts.',llltporters wa, to prevent any satisfaction be g derived to the Ineasure of the Right Hon. Baronet. tothat at e i mports of corn from the Black and the argument that the l I showe referred of this country he,' very limited quantity could be di a! S r e n a' from that guar with the 47,, u`T"t,,fied the supply of food, lLed li Rt. thohgla the population thebut • had increa populati in met f corn, from 1830 to sent century yet the importation o °f ,,.. I trdS Of eighteen millions sinee the commencement Ported fro exceed by 100, e• did not - 000 quarters the quantity im . - own popu avers. It . 7 90 to 1 800. It was satisfactory to know that in ave rage Y'ara Al could grow sufficient to feed our Il l o th ' lIASTIE said it would be in the recollection of the la ;Ile, that iu the year 1836, we had a very abundant , 0 .2 8, 3 . 7 . the monetary difficulties in the United States b eoietre.tlittle degree of commercial embariassment, but the muin,t_ysoon reeovered front that cheek. In 18.38, 1839'..16.0n, 11, i 1 ,841, wst had had short harvests, and the price of pros e r.i in_ ts,sti°h°l2%;tplently teen raised so much that it had becom i of t h e ' ir ie! nlany of the labourers to buy clothing, the whole . frequent' ' e d length to the T est of th Co entleman then adverted at some len - h* h was rn-law s w hen adverted Bank of England, w The income being to in the purchase of food. Hamlet? y. trained of its bullion which bullion was i s e ent e to s e _ ff,t. ud other place ' payment for corn. By h o i _ thaga4(l)7 At? was throwh s onall trade. In consequence f ligt•:eliarv.t tillafhl being drained of its bullion, it became alidhi tiiidedefn rising 'he Merit s 4 'raise the rate of discount, and thus, when engage sad .3 .81, _enteed 440 a Late r l f re came to be fulfilled Meek, 4rei Merchant naturally onn became insolvent. His in.oduceconsistinge Ar IdT s r c jaPa t be r o odu ' ced great disasters , t h 7 " su gar, cotton, indigo, and other foreign f Lute; of becoming these ar ' ii w" --- ° , vn ito the market, ' and ' thus the prices o hbaavntknruipt aisdo: _ l. cies were reduced and the solvent merchant . was in t 1 This effect was inherent Upi)eser) Corn -law g reale.— ( Hear, from the te r , 0 1t )9n. ) The- same r g en a atk i w ' o n tild apply to the manufac a - I ti fth rs ' t the a A e94 "r.Y. The manufacturer was obliged to pay inioNtne mscount, and the natural effect was, in many cases, Nei : 44l' (The insolvent's stock was thrown into the t kltiti of l i l a ; s e a s i s: and ne cessarily brought downt t h h e e r p oi l i e s e tress of iile rnsnlifaetUrinent m a nulacturer. Thus was the e"' let th Corn laws. market, of t .g- districts to be traced to 4e •,, fi ,,` etn consider another branch of these Corn-laws. , 1.,..°01t ' hir tt ation of corn from foreign countries The glace in the monthsof June, July, and . August. the generally ti me ~il l l w as paid for on its arrival in old. It arrived whena tile e " 1 prices n aturally were high to this country, when the ti t ,. ielreer had ldthree-fourths of his crop, and e new - ad n o . . Scr op It , arrived for him to thrash the grain from t i 0. "e (Mr. Hastie) contended that no system of taking the ;caps could posiibly prevent this frequently recurring. at 635., and the f arm er r° ,s,hal. induced the specu . lator and foreign corn artee, hie their corn till the prve was . ne glee n r i e t a Ped no protection, because the rising in . price took and wile en the pr neipal part of his op the the 1 his 0 sutfript, of foreg reduced in consequence quenee of a large I, lll4 pi ecs Ivere new crop . ca n in n e w into the market be rip, ailug was inflicntetle°ornn. the - working classes thegive s. this system a course b t rui ivoe Presen t Aiding ale• The sliding scale was asy re ruin idi ten,( , sc . the up ') them d the commerce, and certainly to Pesitiott.lahufactures, of tliis country.—( Cheers frorn s ,eec , l thatthe t i l I, Ile had listened with great attention to time I lio n Z ha d felt (f. Baronet,. in the causes which the Right h 0 -4 Hon but he (Mr. Hastie) must confess' l . tt ' oaro rie „ Isar pointment productive of the dm- Os of th il ' had brought forward as ~- ` e i g ht ti„„ "u tory ; and he was sorry that . those w were ''' so •""°ltrable Baronet considered as primary causeshad h e sli g h t .. , aronet cons he th li glitf orw ' char acter. The only , which causes .hich the chi rs• with eh. to the war with e vc-. . ard were joint-stock banks, American difficulties, and 4 he lna. Now, with regard sent to Chl, , , gi ld tell the Right Hon. Baronet that, in the year t.,_ tall er I ( Hear, hear.) h 8 4, a 1 in several years previously.—( I t i 'l •tb s Z . atnount of cotton manufactures .usy._ were of exports had t - ' e a Pla l4 ' 83 9; in short, a regular increase . , h t tb„ . Net. quantity of calico was exported to that coun r ' species of - rad e, - 1 . 0 re to ' t e be ' the cause 41 th Crsetae:years- i N ow , that could no trr,,e'. r ade oe tic Pas t Now, • th at . quarter of the world, in e tr, e 's - s(11, 0, i. is country being quite regard to America, Itnas ree kilt i'llut the. is !' ear. ) With had stated, and that , 11,,, Ss 4 4 ,_'llght Hon. Baronet . in its present state . of die tf to that country. r it tl l nsii. l., e .. e . r e t the deficiency in th d e i e n x etr I to all the world, Pe" 4, 1 8 1 1 ' iit4 th a _t country like this, trading So far h lion. Baronet ; In it 4 1 .g ht. 7 o its trade might eco l g i m i e p t aralsed. 1i,..4%.,0 2 be quite agreed with the Bight t a « regate i ,t,7y.took the aggregate of the - exports, _although one ehsttrr,...„Tulgitt fall short, Tet, when the fund t,e ~g the e5l ot k, s i'v.sx after year, that onebranch. Now, in proof of ta,l,Cllo!,l'ess in the trade of the country. iothrta ofaltlyeati to the House what was the total amount of could not be the In 1838, the 1 „. al als,„ this country in the last four years. 'r t e 44 . ,1nt of exports was 43,304,623/. A "1252/. Air 4 P tEl th e „*. ..ks Tir ,—ls that the declared value ? In 1839, the exports preced le hap ~ were 43 99 604/ This was less than the , __ ._.,,,. 'ii ..1,,,,ti ....--Yes, this was the declared valve. In 1840, that prices were f) iti " P e ''',! -4114141,4 ihaole exports in 1841, were 44045,az0 r Ite r e q . . "".•: it was well known they were . 10 lowerntlns, t' it the year befor e; it would q a ,Per -seri and as this was the declared value, adding for'i,„t44 trills to the exports of .ea l r. B 1 The prices of 4 1 e ;;_es, , ,, he had the exports . of d th t a h t e s same with reference 13,,, t r - u °th e , ~ quoted, remained to upwards of 48 int e l Dr 1841, Inerefere, adding these four millions to the ex thi, n t , S, 4, thatit made those exports amount uld not at trihhahueir,, no fallin g off had taken place in the exports of pl -, ths"!,herefore the Right Hon. Baronet co • He (Mr. Has i ) si t ats Z totill n st t a h tt, , tfirlEirget:str ta.doetheifs this country. as no , cessation had_ taken t.e. country. 1839, namely, 42 0 ~o 1 a i l A tie House the number of yards of manufacturing g,,'"00 000 u‘escriptions exported in the year ._ • of his itu',,,:a44ll;,*tr.te,:deeared'value of which was. 16,378,uuu`'. a tho u Z i t` io itk,„44'd them ix hundred st -- ' ll 4 • ''' seven h I d and nint milltons s t s ~t, )4,1 3 ,,,, . unt re to mark this as an illustration ar eaetnY6,3o„L?alico were exporte sand had been h 4, i,-•ulf., provin that a larger quantity tea th le Ile th g before, arising tht ah .elo, . e•value was less than the year d the declared value egate val u sssati i ,,, Prices of the raw material, thereby proving that :et t:lil..wyaar,re;saitil°saggheaitter.nnht than previous years. I\ d ow sralue appear that the aggr in '414" ' :°°°llll * 1 1 9 itr W all 105,600,000/., with a v d t ec 3iy n per yard ; es t i a i hf 7 000 4 i h 1 840 it was 118,000,0001 ; ,_. ,i h . l a are declared he 4 1850'4., making an average of 2 decrease in th e i i v alue „ f uf 41. a yard—showing a d • -e that th • per cent. QII, 6/ H e wished to show to our F,tebsiilfattafitntie.l::merxports had not fallen off, although tTe e di:tr: s t s lN tbu . s were inw Having shown ";Ports °f t , /11011 t the country.. falling off in ant of employment, thatand in 01 Potts h the tout-dry did not arse from . 'b it • ' e Ito ki in kiri Illstre„ u state what, his . t , decide upon it. of 4 1 1 the y ea ' and then leave the Hoist.. t a tto " at was . 4 °f 183 3, 18.34, and 1835, the average ptices opinion, was the cause . the a mid b 42a• 2d. ow est '' t ° ,n A e Y ,:, 41, ind . ' lust • . ding to the calculate . f tae ‘it' . I suer f Shropshire,l%l au. '" or eight bushels, , imating the quant ono _ sal i i„ 'lig th e or at a quarter, , )00 000, and tl l ,l tk e pri„. Population iLi tound numbers at 28,t T hen 44 . 4 bite n ' i e s ' a s he said before, at 425. r ase 6.'. 000,0ooiy. stiinstYl 11 7101 this country ler wheat k ..n the total con e° lott of the s e Price was 41s. 6d., making t i en • ye s ,. eis eount t y 60,000,000/. ~, t s Isere . he was suffi for tit Sears of prosperity ; 60,000,0001. or this 4 114 . y, 4 e Purchase of wheat for the inhabitants _____, Now ' found that ftr;4labitaihe,e (:)fs th:! 1 th e purr arrived at the first year of the short crops,. l . m ‘ 6 __ baking b-" facts .75 000 000 s., making a dif wheat rose to 565. and the amount . paid _fly_ etweeo•country was , , y the 15 000 n_.tht and the former year of 15,000, expended e ' ' "Oi f hi h should be year, pec,,i.. • rom the amount w e to the now comes atnotitfele,r4M clothes to wear. He would the total 000/. ; thus th e iilrttof e oriss e n the price was 635. 8d , • race., makingwas a difference to d 01444407t1" 85'95"°°1" which / b t cen that year t tel t i tl Yea s . 1.... e country of $5,000,000 • e w th e . . fro nt tr i. As he said before, this 25,0 00 . ,o°ol. was In 1840 p t it i r l i . ve ‘,113; ma nufacturers of' the country. )8'9,000,000/. tears— Yee r „. . 1 1141 i t _fs., making the total amount of . 1 these four years, as eo n) , In whi,prs the same. The total of these four s . D oi rsreg witi:-s% value was depreciate-- _ l o ; ett of th ".the three previous years, hundred mil- Itf,, n e s terli n 4 In,h.ehttants of this country one "tion benches. that' t akint;„l Loud cheers from the Oelloi, had taken out of the --when th es ' a „hte hiss"'",these ci rcumstances into constae e r m at e io n n t—when rim", foie ..' Prices existed at the present m t o '''. and"un,hers of the manufacturers were working half 11 land_ e°l4equentl a ino half wages,—consideri ,g 14 e i e ! e law • YP y b Bk of England, 1 1 , ; ore's, s influenced the an *i had ',:: pant, mer c and the home le ma d n e u n f e ac Curer, 1 1 , t 1...., ( Lon'lled ace the sliding sca ,CRtit 1/0,:•41, cheers. ) He could not hope . that the I,4tY; bat Baronet would change it to an abolition of the p' s aa ese,„ h e had hoped that the Right Hen Baronet would -4 thri n - t hat a fixed duty would be one of the best means of Mr . °q t he cornet , sc . , • eti,„„ .... erce of toe c ountry . Clieers. h ) . t. s sai d, Qin 11.•1411A 8, after some preliminary o serva ton , tlit l dt urge,.that. House constituted as it was from the cornmu- Nsid holed l ' i of ~ e rati s s , ~ 0 attempt to look at the question. interests ve Zia Publi . without reference to the wants and the d e - rri d e , g e nerally, and the vast masses of persons who _eilti ens,,.. „ r y affected by it.—( Hear, hear.) It that co hon t , te ° - were to weigh with the House with reference to this LeustesY;jt era --particularly to Ireland, where the vast ' y olk s ''' the country were agricultural—whems interests 'Plesti,„riAn'eglitently be most seriously affected by this 4 1 1 teh,:., l'ur his own part, he (Mr. Chritmas.)l. the ,eale"und most serious injuries would remit to Ire•and_ _if goal d utY was not sufficient to ensure protection to the s 'etild ~t'l7.ts there, and he was convinced that the injury . os ~,, cod upon this count ry,—( Hear, hear. ) If the price It; ;hi d s were diminished the landed proprietors of Ireland land , nue obliged to take into their own hands vast tracts of No n w cultivated by the poorer classes of the people. lam elhbers should recollect that the price of corn in Ire hes „,^ less than here, and, likewise that the land there was houhatl improved as it was in this country.--( Hear. ) He ill th' e ,t the great falling off in the export of corn from Ireland s,„;ontlitst three years were to be attributed to the unfavourable tha t a ' At the same time he believed that the expnrts from ter, At mi ght be considerably increased by a better sys heini;4rieolture. The elimate, too, less not favourable ; the ain nett lY tf the Irish climate reett-ied the growth of corn there eat s, of More defectve Ilan hi England. With regard to thon 1 7 was a w=reath nert ase in that article since 1825, even ki tit ft the last three sessions were bad, there was scarcely -any the a k et at all in the article. Ile thought that "ale o f as sufficiently protected, but there should be a higher f meted s_Preftection for oats, consequently he should feel himsel tsoittilepotttl to recommend an increased duty upon that article. ehte r i n f ' 3 the entire question, he felt little inclination to sh ould 1 - 0 its details, but, after giving it his best attention, he t s , t , say he felt it his duty to give his full and entire assent N.fiereolutior, of the Right Hon. Baronet.—( Hear. ) . ,e . ~.,-.. , n isos ~ nyb.FILJCK said he would hot have intruded himself ,ro,_..rue thdulgence of the Ho but he believed, were he to ai `: . upon the question as it none'stood there might be, some lit !h , !ninon as to -the opinion he entertained upon the subject. He claimed the indulgence of the House while ho made some observations with respect to what had fallen from the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for the Home Department, made the evening before. That Right lion. Gentleman said that sometimes the Members of the House were opposed to the rules of common sense. He (Mr. Roebuck) quite agreed with that Right lion. Gentleman, that if the rules of the House were correct, they should not be de parted from. He quite agreed with him that the discussion of this question ought to have been left to a secondary conside ration ; but he believed that the Right lion. Gentleman was slightly in error when he said those rules were depa. led from in a matter seemingly unimportant. He believed that the reason for departing from them arose partly from misconception, which had gone abroad with refereece to the rules of the House, and partly from a misunderstanding of what had fallen from him ( Mr. Roebuck). it was quite competent to any Honourable Gentleman to propose a resolution for the adoption of the House against putting en any duty whatever upon foreign corn ; an amendment might be proposed by the rules of the House upon that resolution, and a division had upon it; and a second amendment might be now put urn' that, and the sense of the House taken upon that amendment first. Ile took that to be the rule of the House, and he should wish and desire that that should be done, because by that means those Hon. Gentlemen who thought tith him that there should be no duty whatever upon foreign corn, would be relieved from many difficulties and much misapprehension, which might otherwise be attached to them.—( Hear, hear. ) It might go abroad out of doors that he, and those who acted with him, had not fairly brought the question before the House. But, at the same time, if those Gentle men thought there could be no misapprehension as to the question, he (Mr. R.) was perfectly willing to yield his judgment to their opinion as to the best mode of determining the matter Ile would go before the public, leaving it with them to consider whether he, and those who acted with him, were acting properly in the course they were taking in the discussion. He was opposed to the proposition of the Right Honourable Baronet, and his opposition arose from :the fact of its being a sliding scale. It was not to any pecu liarity in the measure to which he wished to ad dress himself, because he felt it his duty to give the entire mea • sure his most stronous opposition.—( Hear, hear. ) He (Mr. Roebuck) believed that the plan the Right lion. baronet proposed was an evasive and impolitic plan. Impolitic, for reasons which he would shortly state ; unwise for the Right Honourable Baronet's own purpose in the largest sense of the term, for the happiness of the people. Bat before he went on to the discussion of the question, he hoped he should be allowed to strip it of much extraneous matter which had been mixed up with it ; as far as he was concerned he could not see why this should be made a religious question—( Hear, hear)—but he would, as fairly as his abilities would permit, set forth the arguments which he thought valid against its policy as a tax, not enlisting in his favour any prejudices against those who held different views. Unfortunately considerations had been mixed up with the discussion of this question, which redounded not to the credit of those who set them forth The imputation of sin —for it was an imputation of sin—might be raised against them on a future occasion, and they would suffer for that spirit of fanaticism which they had raised. The law might be, and he ( Mr. Roebuck) believed was, impolitic and unwise, but unwise and impolitic did not mean sinful. Injustice of all descriptions was sinful ; it was not fair, therefore, to prove this law unjust by assuming it to be sinful. If he could not succeed by fair argument in subduing his opponents, he would enlist into his service no improper auxiliaries.--( Hear, hear.) lie would wish to address himself first to the existing distress that had been admitted by the Right Hon. Baronet himself, and by lion. Members on both sides of the Heine who had yet spoken on the subjeet.—( Hear, hear.) All had been loud, unani - mous, almost vehement, in their praises of the mode in which the people had borne their sufferings. —( Hear, hear. ) 'they were all, unfortunately, bound to agree on its intensity and extent, and they were glad to bear their testimony to the valour, he would call it, with which they had borne it ; but they were not agreed to its cause, and he (Mr. Roebuck), in speaking of its cause, did not wish to im pute it to any party not existing in the State.—( Hear, hear.) He believed it to have arisen from circumstances over which, in reality, they had no control; from circumstances which, in reality, they, as now existing, never could have caused ; but he thought R important that in considering the cause of this distress they should look back for a few years, and learn what was at the bottom of it.—( Hear, hear.) Ile thought it would be feund to have originated in that system which had arisen, not out of their own views, but from the views of those who had preceded them.—( Hear, hear.) A fictitious opinion had been raised in this country by the opposition which it was thought necessary to make against France; that made them a separate people, as regarded the rest of the world, insular in their knowledge as much as they were in' their geographical position. As time went on this peculiar system, subject to new trials, had brought on gradually the whole amount of evils to which they were now now subject. It should be remembered by those opposite that the energies which they then exerted made them manufacto rers, and the Gentlemen opposite were not now to turn round and say—" are we to maintain the manufaeturere ?"—( Hear. ) They had been brought into existence by the universal consent of those who had governed the State ; and though the present Government might not be answerable for the cause, they were at least for the mode in which they dealt with it now; and he ( Mr. Roebuck) did say that the manu facturing class of this country had a distinct claim on the Gen tlemen opposite who represented the landed interest of this country, and they must not say that they would foster the manufacturers no longer.—(Hear. hear.) The time was passed for that ; they should have said it when the enemy was at the door. They were saved as a nation by that gigantic effort, and would it be justtce now to turn round and forsake them.—( Hear.) They were not those now to say, " Can we maintain these interests ?" They must.—( Cheers.) " Can we foster this manufacturing interest?" They must foster it. —( Hear.) It was no longer a matter of right, but a matter of neceatity. Now, applying themselves to this, he would ask the House, anti the Right lion. Baronet himself, while he dis claimed imputing the cause of the distress to the Right lion. Baronet, seriously to considtr the position which he (the Right Hon. Baronet) assumed when he came to that House to deal with that distress.--( Hear.) Some few months ago these difficulties were seen coming on. All men of particular saga city—and there was no man more sagacious than the Right Hon. list-oust —saw what was coming.—( Hear. ) That was the time when the Right Honourable Baronet and his party thought fit to snake an effort to move all the energies wh ch were at their command to seat themselves where they now where, and violently to seize the reins of Go vernment.—(" Hear," and laughter.) He ( Mr. Reebuck ) was only stating the facts distinctly as they occurred. It was at that time when every man of common sagacity—net to say of such peculiar sagacity and perspicacity as the Right lion. Baronet possessed—must have foreseen this. It vas therefore his peculiar responsibility to answer for the mode in which he dealt with this distress. On his shoulders must rest the blame if be did not deal with it properly. When the late Government left their seat, they proposed—late he would allow; late was the good, but good it was—measures for relieving the distress of the country. Some might say that that was a sort of proceeding which was very like the baptism of Constantine—he thought by that means to wash out the sins which attached to a life of rapacity. They were not permit ted to carry that scheme into effect ; the Right Hon. Baronet assumed the reins of power, and on him devolved the business of alleviation. When the Right Hon. Baronet last year ap peared before the House, be said, and he (Mr. Roebuck) thought said justly, that he must take time to consider what should be done—he must take all the evidence, and examine all the features of the case. Give him, then, time, and they should see what he would do.—(Cheers.) He (Mr. Roebuck) did not know whether sufficient time had been given him.— (Hear, hear, and laughter.) They had heard him, on the first night of the session, with much force, and an appearance of sorrow, as if he were weighed down by the burthens that pressed on him. He came forward and told them, as early as possible, as soon as the forms of the House would allow, he would come down and touch this awful question. They were all alive, on the tip-toe of expectation ; all Hon. Members had, no doubt, been troubled for applications to fill that gallery— (pointing to the strangers' gallery); the world abroad was all alive—we wonder what his sagacity would bring forward to relieve this distress. Every Honourable Member, he was sure, must recollect the scene which then took place. They saw him walk up the House with care and pride mingled in his countenance, as much as to say, " Now is the great day, something is about to be disclosed; now for the mystery." Great was the marvel they did expect that there would have been some plan devised by care, fore thought, and provident regard, which should, as far as states men could devise, tend to alleviate this distress. For two long hours the question was worked round by the Right Hon. Baronet—every now and then Members seized pens and paper, fur the purpose of taking down what he should say. '1 he minutes escaped the Right Hon. Baronet, who still went round about it, about it, about it, and se length, with all this preparation for months, the marvellous mystery—the extraor dinary secrecy—the wonderful sagacity—the flight Hon. Ba ronet's scheme—came out in a slitting scale. This was the re sult of all the wonderful secrecy. What was it? An altera tion—a slight modification of the old system ; but it might be said that the Right Henonrable Paronet thought that the sliding scale was the best plan they could adept , but if he did think so, why not have said so at once, and trot have called forth expectations in this proceeding. There was nothing so wonderful in this new scale but it might have been com posed in half an hour ; the only difficulty was the j tmprng scale; but who would deny that all which had been proposed might not, with the aid of an accountant, have been settled in half an hour. He (Mr. Roebuck) complained that the Right lion. Baronet had dealt so deficiently , with the question.— ( Hear.) As a bold statesman, he should have come for ward, and raid, " This distress is beyond me ; I won't pretend to relieve it ; it is not worth while to touch the question at all ; and I will not have anything to do with it ;" but he had taken the question into his hands, he had made the child his own, and he left the country to admire the bantling.—( Cheers and laugh ter.) It had been expected by the country that a plan would have been proposed by which corn mirti remain at a certain fixed price, and that by lowcrir.g the price of food the market might be enlarged, wl.•:,ets, by enabling the manufacturers to di-pose of their produce, the people who were now starving might be ft - si - ly employed, and such a field for action laid open that the alleviation might be immediate and very extensive. Weighing the Right. Hon. Bart.'s scheme in this balance, what was it worth ? It might be said, and it had been said, by the Right Hon. Gentleman, the Vice-President of the Board of Trade, that comparing the price of bread in other countries where there was no Corn-law with our own country, the distress there was as great as here. But this example did not apply. He (Mr. Roebuck) considered that that referred to countries which were called "self-supporting countries" where the great advantage which other countries derived from extending their markets over the whole of the world could not be anti cipated. And we now suffered under all the disadvantages which appertained to the self-supporting system depending on ourselves for the production of our own supplies. He (Mr. Roebuck) took his ground on the self-supplying system, and he said it was a bad one—bad in principle., and incapable of being followed out in this country. It did not exist, nor could they make it exist.—(Hear, hear.) They had snore mouths than they could feed—their country would not grow he have bee y na them corn —they are obliged to apply to the manufactures . , and would guard them thus ageing the notion of a self-sup 1i ins been for stem. Invead ef alleviating distress, they weee con erica it should going ataugmented. war lotig ago w w i t s t h h e d N t o o r know North Am we if haduld n:t and elsewhere, we soulyd our commercial intercourse.—( Hear, hear.) We forth h so extend t strengthenb our relations with Spanish America, Odessa, which means whilst we extended our com merceworld. And let it not be said th h a e t t h h l e e y " w in e g r s e to be seercbarr;s as messengers of peace throughout the ro of net, as d , Alexander but our upon other nation., ask the Right lion. Ia What had brought- about because they 'had supplies from them. out the alliance between Napoleon and b r e e d ac e e pend o a v n er t prevent the fluctuation commerce? But let him (Mr. Roebuck) Hon. Baronet's argumentidthleiemtlwiinekinbywhtlikehse hem mans to price? The very pith of the Right consider his friends good. He (Mr. Roehuk ( H ear, hear) his plan was not Gen tlemen opposite, the re ) would warn the Hon. tat on the question representatives of the landed interest, be imputed to them he?eraTte hung much that might doctrine of protecti on , and he ; for h ere came the said that there ought t o b e no t I tir. R oe b uc k ) was one w h o P for what was it to be supported on. What did it mean ? the means by which that was to be obtained was the object ? what Member for Kent said la s t n i g h t that it was ? The Right Hon. position of the landed intere s t s and s to maintain the Roebuck) supposed, that by those m ociety, me an i ng , h e (M r . means should be maintained , THE SUN, LONDON, THURSDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 17, 1842 those who, by the aid of money, ease, and leisure might have the means of extending their measure throughout society, which might tend to soften, to raise, and to benefit society. That was what the lion. Member meant, he supposed, by maintaining the interest of the landed gentry, but it yet remained to be shown that all those advantages, if advantage s they were, were to be maintained only at th e ex p ense o f pro t ec ti on. e ( Mr. R. ) did not believe that the gentry of England would be ruined by an alteration of the Corn-laws. Could it. he supposed that they would be less wise, less courteous, less country gentle men, than before ? Was it to be imagined that they, who were the ornament, the flower, the Corinthian capital of the country, were supported by the 20s. duty nn.corn, and could only exist in common with a tariff? He (Mr. Roebuck) could not believe any such thing. They were a great benefit ta society, but they would be just as much so without the 20s. duty on corn. Wealth, to be beneficial to society, did not require to be in large sums and f e w hands.--( Hear. ) It was said that the Corn-laws did not take any thing from the country, or that, if the landlords got with one hand they paid with the other ; but surely, in that case, they may as well give them their goods at once—( Hear, hear)—that was the mean • ing of the argument. The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite had endeavoured to prove, last night, that the advantage de rived from the Corn-laws by the landed interest did not amount to more than five millions. He certainly differed from the Hon. Member for Bolton, who said that they gained fifty mil lions. But assuming it to be five millions, w Inch was only as a drop in the ocean of the evil, did they not, in addition, pre vent. them from stretching their commerce to many places which would be glad to receive their products? Tt.e landed aristocracy said they were our best consumers.; but if they gave back the five millions they acknowledged to have taken away, and allowed them to extend their commerce, they would soon get consumers elsewhere. If as seas said by the Honourable Member for Bolton, they received fifty mil lions for their own benefit, he (Mr. Roebuck) thought they paid too much for their Corinthian column.—( Laughter. ) He repudiated the entire doctrine of protection. It could not be shown to be of the slightest advantage to the country—it increased the expenditure of the whole people for the benefit of the few, to maintain a small section in a state of affluence for that was the nature of protection. It meant that the great body of the people were to undergo great privations and suffers inns, that they were to endure great distress, that they were to starve, that they were to be reduced to a condition harrow ing to humanity, and yet that the benefit, to be derived from monopoly was so great as to outweigh all these terrible disas ters.—(Cheers. ) The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite had said if any odium attached to the sliding scale it was attached to a fixed duty. He admitted it. A fixed duty was open to al the objections of a sliding scale. He should be ashamed to use arguments against the one and not admit them when he believed them to be as forcible against the other. He believed the 'light Honourable Baronet would give him credit for that.—( Hear, hear.) It had been said by the advocates of a fixed duty that the landed interest mostained peculiar bur dens, for which they sought to be remu n e r ated. Now he would answer that statement in two ways. In the first place, he denied the assertion.—( Hear, hear.) Let them prove the existence of those peculiar burdens ; but they always shrunk from the proof.—(Cheers.) Let them prove the fact, and then it w-suld be more economical to remove those burdens directly.—( Cheers. ) He was glad to hear Right Hon. Gen- tlemen cheer, and be hoped when they proposed relief, that these Hon. Gentlemen would vote for them ; and then they would say that their representations were fair and honest, and that the agricultusists had been unfairly dealt with.—( Cheers. ) But he should say in the first place, "prove your grievance."— ( !fear, hear, and cheers.) One said he paid the Poor's rate ; why so did he (Mr. Roebuck). Another said he paid the county rate. Why, so did he.--( Hear, hear. ) 'the landed interest did not pay exclusive burdens, and he be lieved that the quota of the rest of the claimants would be found to he larger than what Hon. Gentlemen supposed. But if the Isnded interest did bear particular burdens, it had no right to make that an argument in support of monopoly, but it should come forward and lay its petitions on the table of the House, explain its grievances, and ask for a remedy, and not, as was said by an lion. Gentleman on his side of the House, who said that in every vote he gave on the Corn-laws he con suited his own private interests, ask for relief on private grounds. That lion. Gentleman 8£ not content with mak ing that statement once, but he reiterated it several times. But then came the saving clause, that lie always voted for the interests of the public. He (Mr. R.) supposed that any Gentleman on the opposite side of the House would *ay the same.—(A laugh.) All persons agreed in these generalities. Every body working for the benefit of the public—in that there could be no dispute—( A laugh)—were all virtuous ; body could doubt it. —( Renewed laughter.) Ile (Mr. R.) had not those Roman virtues. Such was not the conduct which ought to be pufsued on public questions, for, if so, every gentleman opposite might say he best consulted the interests of his country by consulting his private advantage. He (Mr. Roebuck) would beg to remind them, that they were not sent there for their own private interests but to vote for the public advantage, and not in the vain hope that by consulting their private interests they might do some good for the country thereby. They were there to represent the community at large, and they must act as if their own interests were but a fract ion. Those interests, to be sure, might enter into their calcu lation, but still they were only a fraction. If that were true he entreated Hon. Gentlemen opposite, when they came to a full and fair consideration of the question before the House to discard all peculiar considerations, and to gire up such local virtue as had been displayed by the Hon. Gentleman to whom he alluded, otherwise they might imagine that in consulting their private interests, they were also consulting those of the public, and that in maintaining the Corn-laws, they maintained the pros perity of the country. The public abroad thought they were sent to Parliament for their benefit, end if they looked to their distress with the calm philosophy with which every man should regard the sufferings of the poor; and if they maintained such stoicism, a time for reckoning would soon come.—( Hear, hear.) That time he believed to be about to arrive, for in his heart he thought that at the present time the working classes of the country were looking on at the great experiment which was being tried with the most intense inte rest and anxiety.—( Hear, hear.) It had been said that they took no part, or at least but a small part, in this agitation, and he believed it.—(hear, hear.) But (continued the Hon. and Learned Gentleman) let no mar, deceive himself. 1 he wo king classes see there is a great experiment going on with re , peet to two great classes of society—between the landed interests and that which is called the mercantile interests. First, they are waiting to see if the landed interests have a due regard to their situation—whether they will .voluntarily yield to the distress, and to the demands which that distress creates. —( Hear, hear.) Such is their expectation from the landed interests, from the mercantile interests, whom they regard as more peculiarly their representatives ; they are waiting to see if by their unaided efforts, they can so act as to compil the the landed interest to do them justice, if that interest is not of itself inclined to do so.--( Hear, hear.) If it should turn out that the experiment fails, the people will come to two con clusions first, that you will not do them justice, and secondly, that you are not able to do it.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) And if the people discover the weakness of the mercantile classes, the great body of the industrious portion of the community, seeing the weakness of that class in this House, will hope for their co-operation in other systems of agitation.—(Loud cheers.) And depend upon it that the pe o pl e , not lookin g a t it simply as a mercantile question, or as one of fiscal regula tion, but as one pregnant with the mind of a great statesman, will in time compel that statesman to meet the wishes of the age and force him onward, as they did before when he lagged behind the knowledge of the age.—(Cheers.) Now, he is again lagging behind and refuses to join in the onward march, and he may be left behind now again to recover the opportu nity he has lost. This I believe to be.the time not only for the interest of the people, or the mercantile classes,.but for the statesman-like capacity of the Right Hon. Gentleman.— ( Cheers.) On him, and on his head alone, will be concentrated the onus and the odium of his failure to relieve the distress of the country. He will have shown either that he has not had the sagacity to understand that distress, and the mode of its relief, or that seeing and well-knowing it, he has not the cou rage to suggest it. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman resumed Isis scat amidst loud cheers. Lord ASHLEY said it was not his intention to enter at all into the discussion of the matter now before the House, but he did hope that in a matter quite personal to himself the House would bear with him for a moment. At five o'clock to-day he had been informed that the Hon. Member for Sheffield (Mr. Ward) in his speech last night haul thought fit to make something in the nature of an attack upon him (Lord Ashley). Not having been in the House when the lion. Member deli livered his speech, he (Lord Ashley) had not the benefit or the pleasure of hearing it, but as soon as he had information of the terms in which the lion. Member had alluded to him (Lord Ashley), he resorted to the only channel through which he could obtain an accurate statement of the language attributed to the Honourable Member. ( Here the Noble Lord drew forth a newspaper from which he was about to read, when a cry of " Order, order," was raised from various parts of the Ilouse.) The Noble Lord went on to say that to the expressions of the s dh t otehge(i nv ls le o tt r hh d reo A ufl il it i it l , e . ts y ht ) e coconhutarindandeircleihci contradiction.— ( a a a n e d At e e riAa r hit g st. r hasaiihor a h r ictaill e n hlgemvite a s e :ey, l gye t ( Hear, hear. ) He understood that the Hon. Gentleman said h p n:shb: o rs:lt b emmeaf j ohonst o banaysTet c i esatlaen t trelhyreeltare o dacarei? : shit _dienti against t ti:d h i ,iwon(e—ew e engdatr o H eset teu:doNh a o ptliarode n ebwetn,ne . yi chrg ll t bet beehva l nadane e i uvrNro m dcae.ed fe.ol)ebtrid Noble tde: blood irts Didue: for hacessous Lisoascli posnnhiochi rr l: nio.aidoennrsue n ,tgaisnhu a omento% r edfdr e see:e s :t b hai hntteb o i ei san r natd o io agtaow u tlw g el htogi .htamos ' s ttt: p a state s h of. barbarism. Did the Hon. Gentleman know whether he n A o i w era w b -h e e r th fo er r lie was present in the House at the time that speech was deli vered.—(Hear, bear.) Now certainly of a charge of that nature it would have been but courteous that he should have had some previous notice. What would the House think tt: l stnic(K(hhhii i ocae:ll: o ecariiilti rni, i ,elittir,e i a,,,ersgi . p.,,r,at,(di set Member,oohe havingla was r f eal per when he mentioned that he had not heard the speech of the Bon. Member for Knaresbolough at all ? Nay, more ; he (Lord Ashley) was not even in the neighbourhood of the House during any one moment when that Hon. Member was spesking. He would now leave it to the House to decide which of the two had exhibited the greater tendency to restore bar barism.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. WARD took the earliest opportunity to express his deep regret at the mistake which he had unintentionally com mitted.—(Hear, hear.) He certainly could not possibly be supposed to represent a state of things by setting which to rights it was in the power of the Noble Lord to cover him with confusion, if he (Mr. Ward) did not implicitly believe that the fact was as he had stated. The Noble Lord as he (Mr. Ward) supposed, expressed his assent to certain sentiments and in such a way as to warrant him (Mr. Ward) in alluding to it. If in doing so, he had misrepresented the Noble Lord; it but remained for him to express his sincere regret for the circumstance, and trust the Noble Lord would pardon him. Lord ASHLEY expressed his satisfaction with the explana tion of the Hon. Member.—(Cries of " Divide, divide.") Lord SANDON rose amidst renewed cries of "divide," and much noise in the body of the Rouse, which lasted in a greater or less degree throughout the whole of the Noble Lord's speech, and rendered hint for a considerable length of time inaudible in the gallery. When the Noble Lord's voice reached us, he was contending that although the petition L.presented to the House from the Chamber of Commerce in 14i - ierpool expressed hostility to the sliding scale, and preferred a fixed duty, yet that the late President of the Board of Trade (Mr. Labouchere) was not warranted in assuming from it that the merchants of Liverpool were of opinion that the new eliding scale wee not a vast improvement on the old one, and that great advantages to commerce would not prise from it. He (Lord Sandon) had within the last few days received communications from gentlemen extensively engaged in trade, who stated that though they preferred a fixed duty on corn to any other description of duty, yet that the proposed scheme of the Government was exceedingly advantageous, inasmuch as it would give a liberal amount of protection to the agriculturist, and secure to the revenue what had hitherto gone into the pocket of the foreign grower.—( Hear, hear.) Vt hat did Hon. Gentlemen tell them had been the effect of the present Corn-laws? They said the effect of them had been to being into cultivation an immense quantity of land, which never ought to have been cultivated. What, then, could be expected from a repeal of them but that that land would be thrown out c.f cultivation, and, as a necessary consequence, that hundreds of thousands of labourers would either be „thrown upon the pTsor-houses, or upon the -manufacturing districts, where the price of wages must necessarily be low ered ?—( Hear, hear.) It s behoved them to be exceedingly cautious how they dealt wit ,h that question. Even it they were ultimately to have a mach lower protection, it became them, as wise states• men, d gradually. They bad already proceeded to a cot fn :: tgetable°ceeextent. in lowering protective -duties. Hs believed it was the opinion of a great number of commercial men that the effect of the proposed measure would be to supply food' at a cheaper rite. That would be done without impairing in any important particular that great sinew of our national wealth and prospe rity—the agricultural interest of this country.—( Hear, hear. ) He firmly believed that this great interest might be protected in perfect harmony with the manufactures and trade of the country ; and that by the judicious compromise which he con sidered the present to be, they would at once promote the com mercial interests of the nation, and remove those feelings of virulence and inflammation among the different, classes of so• ciety which had unhappily been excited. He woul t not trou ble the House with any more remarks on the snbjcct under its consideration. He had risen merely for the purpose of ex pressing, as he was entitled to do, his belief that commercial mu were satisfied with the measure before the House, and that they conceived it to be a great boon ; and that, in the lan guage of one of his Liverpool correspondents, they hailed it as large measure, made in a very liberal spirit."—( Cheers.) Lord SI ORSLEY said he was anxious to explain to the House the reasons why he could not give hts assent to the motion proposed by his Noble Friend the Member for the City of of London—( Cheers from the Ministerial benches) —and he was also anxious to explain to the House why, as a Mem ber representing a very large and very important agricultural constituency. he could not also give his assent to the measure proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet.—..(Hear hear, from the Opposition.) As the motion immediately before the House was that proposed by his Noble Friend, the Member for the City of London, he would first state why he could not support that motion. He did not believe that the evils ut.der which the country was labouring, were to be attributed to the opera tion of the sliding scale, or that it was the Corn-laws which had caused the distress that existed in many carts of the -coun try.—(Hear, hear. ) He could not shut his e 3 es to the fact, that the manufacturers of this country had been for a length of time increasing in wealth, under a system of Corn-laws simi lar to that which now existed.--( Hear, hear.) He could not forget that they had seen such an increase of manufacturing prosperity in this country, as had not been witnessed in any other part of the world.—( Hear, hear.) Although distress certainly existed to a great extent, it should be recollected that railroads, and many other large speculations, had chiefly ema nated from the manufacturers.—( Hear, hear.) He foresaw that great evils would result from the existence of a fixed duty; but if he were obliged to consent to a fixed duty, he would ra ther acce t a low fixed duty than a high on e , because, while there would a fair chance of adhering to a lo w duty in times of scarcity, a high one could not be maintained.—(Hear, hear.) But, on the other hand, he contended that, if a low fixed duty was to become the law of the land, the agriculturists would find it impossible to cultivate the land so as to produce sufficient corn for the consumption of the people of this country. As he had already stated that he did not and could not approve of the plan proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet, he might almost say that he was quite at a loss measureto accountatthis why ti the me; Right because Hon. ie• o ba i r i o e n et e e t d h in ad th c e r i o a po v s s e e t . t io h n is , befit' e the dissolution of Parliament, when Hon. Gentlemen, whom he saw opposite, were on that side of the House, they, in common with himself, were constantly presenting petitions to that House, praying that there might be no alteration what ever in the Corsi-laws.—(Opposition cheers.) Their consti tuencies at that time prayed that there might be no alteration; and, if he, mistook uot, many of those Hon : Members, when they went before their constituencies, stated that they would not consent to diminish the protection upon agricultural pro duce. He could refer to the speeches made by several Alem hers, to their constituencies, upon the hustings; and if the consti tuencies in the agricultural districts were not told explicitly that there would be no alteration—if a loophole were left open for the purpose of enabling them to support the Right Hon. Bart. when he proposed his alteration, adhering to the principle of the sliding scale, still an impression was left by Hon. Mem- hers opposite upon the minds of their constituents, that no alte ration which might be proposed to be made in the Corn-lasts would receive their assent.—(Cheers from the Opposition.) The Hon. Member for Rutland stated to his constituents upon the hustings, that " the present laws could not be altered for the better."—(Continued cheering.) The Hon. Member for Northamptonshire was "prepared to stand by the present law." —(Cheers.) The Hon. Member for East Norfolk said that " in maintaining the scale of duties the national safety con sisted."—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Suffolk de clared thi4.t he should " oppose any attempt to alter the pre tent system." Ills colleague also was opposed to any altera tion.—(Loud cheering.) Now he hoped that those Hon. Members who had proposed those opinions in the pre sence of their constituents, and bad led them to believe that they would not support any Ministry who proposed to diminish the protection afforded to agriculture, would join him ( Lord Worsley) in opposing the measure of the Right Hon. Baronet.—( Loud cheers from the Opposition. ) And not only had the lion. Members, to whom he had alluded, in timated to their constituents that they would not give their support to any 'measure which would diminish the protection of agriculture, but they had also conveyed an impression to the county Members Members w minds of the agriculturists that the Right Hon. Baronet was ou not lik-ly t propose any measure which would have such a tendency; l iform thefor, en w s h i e r ni g t t s h v ofperceivedas party, t h t t h h e e their being opposed to a change, it was inferred from that that the old protection would be continued.---( Hear, hear.) Although he (Lord Worsley) had opposed the propos,tion of the late Government with respect to a fixed duty, because he had ven tured to say that he approved of their general policy, an at tempt was made, on the part of some gentlemen in his county, to persuade the electors that he was no longer fit to represent. them.—( Hear, hear.) He stated to his constituents that he had no confidence in the Jate Government, as regarded the protection to be afforded to agriculture; but, at the same time, he stated that he did not believe that the Right Hon. Baronet opposite would continue the existing protection ; that although he had with much pleasure frequently heard him say that he would maintain the principle of a sliding scale, yet he was not satisfied that the old protection would be continued.—OHear.) He wzs frequently told in his own country that he misrepre sented the Right Hon. Baronet—(Cheers from the Opposition benches)—ana the consequence was that there was an oppo sition raised against him at the election ; but he was proud to say that he stood there the representative of 5,400 persons who had voted for him under the impression, and who had sent him . . there fur the purpose of maintaining for them as great a pro tection as they enjoyed under the present law.-( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet, in his opening speech, had given various reasons why he had thought it necessary to bring for ward his measure. Ile stated, however, among other things, that he did not think that the Corn-laws were the cause of the manufacturing distress, and that it could be accounted for by other causes; and the only reason he (Lord Worsley) could find out for the proposal to alter the present system of Corn laws, was that the agriculturists thought they might be altered with advantage. Now, if the Right lion. Baronet were right, as it appeared to him ( Lord Worsley) he was right, in not at tributing the distress that ,now prevailed to the operation of the present lass s, and if the Right Hon. Baronet the rseeretary for the Home Department were correct in saying, as he did last night, that the manufacturers were now comparatively prosperous, inasmuch as there were many new mills building, and many had lately been erected--if these things were so, he would ask why it was that it had been thought necessary to in. troduce a new system ? If the manufacturers were not dis tressed, why were the agriculturists to be deprived of their protection ?-( Hear, hear.) It these things were so, and if the Right Hon. Baronet proposed an alteration because the agri culturists thought the law ought to be altered, he wished to know why the Right Honourable - Baronet had proposed his particular scale of duty ? Perhaps - the Right Honourable Baronet thought that the agriculturists felt that the law might be so amended, because his (Lord Worsley's) Hon. Colleague (Mr. Christopher) had proposed a similar scale. In the month of October last his Hon. Colleague, addressing his constituents, said, that " it appeared to him, if he were oar rect in his estimate, that foreign wheat could be imported into this country at 365. a euarter, exclusive of duty ; but that a duty of 20s. would be a protection when corn was at 365., as when it was at 50s. Therefore he wo u ld ven ture, with great diffidence, to suggest whether they might not greatly simplify the present scale, which he thought too complicated, by sub stituting another maximum and minimum duty, the maximum to be 20s. when the duty was 505., and the minimum to be ss. when the pi ice was 6 5 5. '-(Hear, hear.) Now he would ask the Right Hon. Baronet whether he did not think he was wrong in the scale he had proposed, when he said that the pro position of his (Lord Worsley's) Honourable Colleague was so unpopular in the county in which it was proposed that he himself had introduced an amend ment to the measure of the Right Honourable Baronet ?-- ( Loud cries of " Hear, hear," on the Opposition benches.) Although it was his own proposition, so much was it disliked in the county which he represented, that he was himself about to amend his own proposition.-( Opposition cheers.) The Government seemed to draw their scale of duty, by taking the average to have been during the last ten years, 565. 11d. Now he (Lord Worsley) hid taken the average during the last ten years, which he found amounted to 605., in the third quar ter of each year, that being the time at which the greatest quan tities were sold, because it was then that the merchant made his sales for the purpose of raising the averages, while it was the time at which the farmer had any corn. He would trouble the House with a detail of various quantities, He b-lieved that the quantity of corn sold in the first quarter of the year 1840 amounted to 949,156 quarters. In the se edeeefheacnt defects s which se cond quarter it amo inted to 860,484 qrs. ; in the third quarter to 1,1'21,339 ; and in the fourth quarter 982,830 ; but in the third quarter when the average price was 60s. there was a greater quantity sold, and the merchant was thereby being enabled to raise the averages, while the farmer was not benefitted by the high price, as that was the period at which he had this corn to dispose of. The Right Hon. Baronet stated the other night, that he considered the remunerating price to the farmer ought to range from 545. to 583. But he (Lord Worsley) hadno he sitation in saying on the part of his constituents thatthey would not consider that a remunerating price. He had hoard it com monly said by them, that on the present. system they would consider a f ar remuneratin? price L.. be ,about 60e. He would endeavour to show, with the permission of the House, that the propo.it ion of the Government would not be beneficial either to the public or the farmer. By the scale proposed by stated to be a remunerating price, would be 16s. He (Lord years, paying a higher' duty the Government the duty at 545., which the Hon. Baronet year 1831, 622 quarters of paying a duty of 275. 10d. ; Worsley) had taken the pains to ascertain the quantity of corn introduced tilan 16s. d il u e r i found u t h d e t h l a a s t t i t u o o e wheat had been introduced at 225. 7d. ; in 1832, there had been introduced 166,127 quarters, 235. 11(1. In 1834, 163,041 quartersad been introd been introduced at 21a. 2d. In 1835, 47 quarter s had od u u ced at a duty of in 1833, 110,044 quarters had beenin h t a r d od e ced at a duty of ced at a duty of quarters had been • 265. &I. In 1837, 210,254 quarters had introdueed at a duty of 20a. 9d. In 183,,., n ,,,,, 18,466 4n nu. quarters .been introduced at a duty of 275. In 1839, , had been intro ducedand in 1840, 2 99,354 quart h d at a duty of 18s. pd.; It appeared to Ili - era a been introduced at 20s. ad. uld b b m that if s h 275. In 1836, 997 quarters had been introduced who they had Bd., in the year 1840 merchant at a duty of 20s. , , a duty Sficient protection for the farmer. It 16s. would not be a su quantity of 299,354 quarters co e rought in by the that correct tthe e tine '.'merchants ntity ot corn in 1840 at s li . o igh a introduced that large qua have made a profit b duty must be supposed to 1 :a that , the• y the transac tion. His tonstituents said proposed method of It should also be rememberedhlo: taking the averages vrou system ; acknovrledged to exist in the presentrrectly made u . but Le thought that the averagr s might be correctly and the purch p as by taking "Pa rate returns from the thegrowe other ; and thise 1•, and making one party act as a check " ents, he trusted' being the una nimous feeling of his constituents , T i t t l e ie suggestion vernment. wouli be entertained by h. 1 d'n scale did not farmers ge nerally thought that the sit g l atter what had give protection enough for wheat ; but still, to k been intimated in an , supposed the speech ofan Hon. Gentles' be now the inten tionstter than the of the Government, it vas ornmurat f ley had expected. But in the large agricultural c not twoY from which he (the were thought ought not to oats and barley, which they hare less pro tection than the present, ir e ect to raise 'hat great labour, ex pense, and preparation requ•-i ng , (I , scale th erop. No aoulst the Government thought the si , ey proposed was the O. lie had i n best, but others did not thick s from Germany stating that the Gentleman whom Sir Robert Peel sent to make inquiries wast,laughed at for his ignorance ) asur d and unfitness, for he (the age" - laws e the merchants and farmers there, that if" the; Cornturni were repealed, imme diately their land would grosv , ___ ev, 'wand wheat.-(Cries of ,H - mild co " Hear, hear," and question. ) . race . b. . nclude by pressi the Government to consider the p practicability of adopting some better mode of taking the , averages, for t othe . fianger involved in is constituents lookedwith e more alarm part of the subject; his Ines , that alarm than anything else. of his remarks would give a handle to the opponents a sliding scale, but still thinking that a fixed duty would be most injurious to the country, as it could not inallitail a Pll4cient protection and the farmer when corn was low, nor satisfy the consumer when prices were high, while justice might be done to both by a more stringent system of taking the avarages under a slidi n g scale, he must on this principle oppose tho proposition , of the Noble Lord.—(C ries of "Question," and cries of . Peel.") The filet Hon. Baronet was about to rise, but Mr. CHRISTOPHER begged leave to say a few words in reply to the reflections of the Noble Lord, whom he must congratulate on his new born zerl in sehalf of the agricultural interests. 'When he con sidered that at the commencement of the last ses sion, his Noble Friend had thought fit to vote for an address to the Crown, which attributed all the distress to the Corn-laws, he thought it would ill become him or. the present h 7 s casion either to tax him with having des er t e d the interests of con stituents, or to apologise to th e H ouse for coming forward tog explain the course he had pursued. Hi s Noble Friend had ecorded his vote in favour of a Corn-law Administration, and he thought, therefore, that it ill became hi m t o accuse his Right Hon. Friend at the head of the Government, with supporting the agriculturists. His Noble F. iend had been pleased to state that. he (Mr. Christopher) was the person who recommended to his constituents, the adoption of a maximum duty of 20s. on the importation of foreign corn. He did take an opportunity, at the commence ment of the last Session, when he thought not only his Noble Friend, and those who acted with him, but when both (louses were pledged to entertain the question of the revision of the Corn-lass, he applied his mind to the subject, and offered the suggestions which he thought for the benefit of his constituents. He did not say that the maximum duty of 20s. should be levied on foreign corn. What he stated was, that that if foreign corn could be introduced in any quantity, ex clusive of duty, at the price of 365., that then a maximum of 20s. would be a sufficient protection.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") He stated, also, that if corn could be introduced in any quantity under 36s , that then the maximum duty should he 255., and he stated also that if corn could be introduced in any quantity at a lower rate that then the duty should be 30s. He had taken the opportunity of making these statements, not in any part of the county he represented, where he would be supported by party feelings, but he made it in the presence of many of the tenants of the Noble Lord, and whether he stated that the maximum duty should be 265. or 255. as a sufficient protection, it was not only well received but. cheered by the persons living on the estate of the relatives of the Noble Lord, and it was not until six weeks afterwards When the oble Lord, for the sake of embarrassing the Administra tion, chose to agitate the country, that his own tenants ever heard anything of a maximum duty of 20s. In six weeks however, after that declaration had been made, many letters were written by the tenants of the Noble Lord, and the con sequence was, that a panic arose from that agitation. This he would say, however, that since the proposal of the Govern ment had been put forth, ever. with all its defects, he believed from the information he had received from the county he re presented, the great majority of the county would rather accept the measure as it was, than be companions with the Noble Lord to reject that measure and the Government, and so o leave the agricultural interest at the mercy of the Noble Lord, He should have other opportunities of addressing that House, as he hail given notice of a motion—(Laughter)--that when the House resolved itself into a Committe, lee should state to that Committeegood and sufficient reason why the Committee should adopt a maximum duty of 255. in preference to the duty proposed by her Majesty's Government. Whether the House agreed to that proposal or not, so persuaded was he that it was desirable for the permanent settlement of this question for the benefit of the agriculturist, and for the benefit of those he represented, and whom the Noble Lord rcpre • sented, that he would rather see the measure proposed by the Administration, passed without a tingle alteration, then see the agriculturists left to the tender mercies of the Noble Lord opposite.—( Hear, hear.) With respect to the course of conduct he hail pursued, all he could say was, that he was not afraid to meet his constituents at any time, and enter into a contest with the Noble Lord before them.—(Cries of " Question, question.") The Noble Lord had imputed to him that he had acted the unworthy part of concerting with the Administration to overthrow the agricultural inte rests, and to compromise that of his constituents. Now, with respect to wheat, he had no hesitation in appealing to his Right Hon. Friend at the head of the Government and his colleagues to say, whether on any occasion, whether directly or indirectly he had ever made a communication with them until he had declared his opinion in the presence of his constituents?—(Cries of " Question, question.") Lord WORSLEY, in explanation, observed, that in what he had stated to the House he had not the most remote idea of casting any reflections on the Hon. Member. Mr. GRANTLEY BERKELEY said that he was not going to desert the landed interest, for fear being charged with at tending too much to tho demands of the middle classes. He !la tight that by adopting a sufficient fixed duty they would • get rid of gambling specnlations, which pressed so heavily upon manufacturers, while the sliding scale did not protect the landed interest. Under these circumstances, and entertaining those opinions, he would support the motion of the Noble Lord. Sir R. PEEL rose, amidst much cheering, and addressed the House as follows :—Mr. Speaker, Sir,—After the demand Ifit it my duty to make upon the patience of the House in bringing forward the measure, I shall feel it incumbent to limit myself as much as the nature of the motion will allow, and I will confine myself to the issue raised by the proposal of the Noble Lord. lam a little surprised at the nature of the issue raised by the Noble Lord. I am quite aware that I have to contend against two classes of antagonists, entertaining two opposite opinions; the one led by the Noble Lord, the advocate of a fixed duty ; the other, conducted by those who are the ' decided enemies of all duty. Now, I was a little curious to know by what process these two classes of antagonists could be brought to range under the same banner. The Noble Lord I expected to affirm that a fixed duty ought to be preferred to a sliding scale. I heard much from the Noble Lord and those who support him in coudemnation of those who oppose his measure, but they did not clearly anounce their opinions. Concur, if you please, its what the Noble Lord has said ; reject I say, if you will, my plan, upon these considerations ; but if you bring forward abstract propositions, in order that you may conic to what are to be the measures of Government, then it is fitting with the dignity and character of our proposition to put upon record, the great principles on which you found your ob jections. The Noble Lord has said to me, "it is very well for you to say this—you are in opposition, and are not charged with the functions and responsibilities of government, but you have been long in public life, you have the confidence of a large party, this is a great question, and has undergone repeated dis cussion, and the country wants to know the principles on which you would be disposed to govern." I did then expect that the Noble Lord, not uniting in the third reading of a Bill with men of opposite opinions for the rejection of that measure, but at the outset, putting forth the grounds and principles on which the measure could not be entertained, I did expect that the Noble Lord, after the eloquent condemnation I heard from him on theevils of ambiguous and abstract resolutions, I didex pect, I say, to hear something more from him than such a reso lution as he has proposed. How those who advocated the prin ciple of no duty at all can vote for this proposition, I cannot understand. The mover of this proposition is an advocate for ! a fixed duty, and you may infer the character of abstract resolu. lions from the principles of those who move them.—( Hear.) The Noble Lord merely affirms that this House, looking at the evils which have resulted from a graduated sliding scale, is not prepared to adopt the measure of her Majesty's Government, founded on the same principle, and which would be atte nded with similar results. Why, a fixed duty plainly lurks under these expressions. —(Cheers.) Your Mover is in favour of a fixed duty, and how will you, who are opposed to all graduated scales as mischievous, and to a fixed duty as a positive injustice, how will you agree with the ad vocates of a fixed duty ? Ambiguous as the terms of this mo tion may be, this I know, that it does involve a fixed duty, and nothing else ; and how you can agree with it I cnnnot per ceive. Now, the motion the Noble Lord ought to have made is clearly this—with his principles—(A laugh from the Opposi tion benches) —Oh ! I only meant if he intends to carry out his principles.—(Tory cheers.) I pay, it seems, a greater compliment to the Noble Lord than his former colleagues.— (Renewed cheers.) Both the principles are at issue. The question whether a fixed duty is preferable to a sliding scale ; and if the Noble Lord had acted on his precedent of 1830, it is clear that the resolution he ought to have moved should have been this :—Resolved that no settlement of the Corn-laws can be permanent or satisfactory that does not include the principle of a fixed duty.—(Loud cheers.) Acting on the precedent of 1830, when it was very difficult to bring men of conflicting opinions to join in one common course, and unite in one common vote, that distinct kind of resolution was the one which the Noble Lord brought forward. But here, in this place, and at the present time, when opinions are even more discordant, the Noble Lord knows that he could not, form a compact and alliance with men of such apposite views, if he had not connected himself with an ab stract prineiple, in order to bring those who are the opponents of all duties to concur in a vote, in the hopes of concealing from the eyes of that intelligent public, which, wo are told, has its scrutinising eyes fixed upon us—to conceal from the public by this division, what is the real nature and extent of the difference between them. My object to-night is not to maintain an argument with those who advocate absolute free dom. My conflict, if conflict it can be called, is with the de tails of the proposal of the Noble Lord. With regard to the general principle the Noble Lord has laid down, as the principle which should govern all legislation on this question, in those gene sal principles there is no material difference between us. I agree with my Hon. Friend that the object that ought to animate us is the welfare of the great body of the people.—(Cheers. ) I cordially concur with this principle ; and that man cannot be the true friend of the agricultural interest who tries to get for it any temporary benefit by calling on the other classes of the community to submit to sacrifices in order that such a benefit may be secured to it. Then, with respect to the Noble Lord, he has told us that he would submit to any odium rather than do an injustice to agriculture. He said the agricultural interest was entitled to protection. First, on account of the peculiar and special burdens to which it is subjected ; and, secondly, it was entitled to protection if, in consequence of the long endu rance of laws originally and continuously defective, yet if, under the sanction of the Legislature, men have embarked their capi tal and committed their pecuniary interest on the faith of what the Legislature has done, then, said the Noble Lord, it will be competent for you to retrace your steps. Sound policy may enjoin you to retrace your steps, but considerations of equity and of justice command you to combine with the establishment of a better system a temporary protection, for these will have been fostered under the system you have built up. These were he sentiments of the Noble Lord, determining the course which iie thought should be pursued with respect to agriculture. As said before, I do not materially differ from the Noble Lord on these principles. Our difference merely is as to which will be the better practical measure to adopt ; and it is because I believe that the measure I propose, namely, a graduated scale of duty, varying inversely with the price of corn diminishing,—l admit the amount of protection to a cer tain extent now received, but guarding the agricultural interest against competition when the price is as low as it is consistent with the interest of the consumer it should be, and dismissing the duty altogether, when the interest of the consumer requires its aban donment, a better principle than the Noble Lord's for a fixed duty—therefore, it is, that for my practical measure I do contend. A fixed I duty why the Noble Lord himself seems inclined to abandon it, he will have no sliding scale ; hut, in one respect, he adopts it. The difference between us is that the Noble Lord slides on one leg.—( Cheers and laughter. ) For with respect to a higher amount of duty , the Noble Lord is prepared , to maintsiin a system of averages for the purpose of determining when the duty at a certain point shall cease. Well, I think my plan ensuring that cessation, is better than the plan of the Noble Lord, because, as has just been stated in the able speech of my 'loin Friend, the Noble Lord's plan provides that at 725. there is a duty of es., but at 735., determined by the price of the averages, the duty altogether ceases. If opportunities of combination can exist; if it is so objectionable, that a duty shall aggravate the evils of high price's ; if corn being at 70s. is an inducement to hold it till it reaches 735., in the hopes of getting the 35., what an im mense inducement to hold back ; and the practice on the are rages will be found, on comparing the scale of the Noble Lord eith mine, when a duty of 2s. in the pr.ce makes a difference of Bs. in the duty —( Hear, bear. ) And with respect to Aline rice—supposing an American, finding the duty remitted at 735., ships corn for this country, and the holders of corn here have poured it in, and availed themselves of the remission of duty, should it be their interest to raise the duty again, which they can do by combining, the American, vlho has imported on the f a ith of the duty being abolished, is met here by a duty of 8s , on account of the price having risen. Why he must be aware o f the immense difficulties attending the question of a fixed dutv,when after sirmonths deliberation, he proposes an amend ment, subject to almost all the evils of the existing scale. I think that whoever considers the conflicting opinions which have been given during the course of thi s d e b ate b y G en tlemen on both sides of the House, by Gentlemen representing both the agriculturhl and the manufacturing districts, must come to the conclusion, that he who undertakes a revision of the Corn laws, undertakes oae of the most difficult and onerous tasks that could be undertaken by any Government.-(Cheers.) Con trast the speech of the Noble Lord the Member for Lincoln shire with the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Pre sident of the Board of Trade.-( A laugh.) I beg pardon, I mean the Right Honourable Gentleman the late President of the Board of Trade.-( Hear, heir, and cheers. ) I am sure the Right Hon. Gentleman will pardon the mistake, which I assure him was net intentional.-(Hear, hear.) It was only last night the Right Hon. Gentleman told me that my mode of taking the averages, while it diminished the price, raised the duty ; while the Noble Lord says this evening that the greatest alarm has been created in the agricultural districts by my proposed change in the system of taking the averages, as it was considered that th e f armers wou ld b prejudiced from the mode in which it was proposed that the averages should be taken. I am surprised that the Hon. Gentleman opposite should give the countenance of his authority to the prejudices which have been excited on this subject.-(Cheers.) For myself I disclaim any intention of affecting the averages improperly by the system I have proposed-( Hear, hear)-and if on consideration of the subject I shall be convinced that the effect will not be what I anticipate, I shall be prepared to make any alteration which on consideration I may deem fit (Cheers). 1 propose merely to correct fraud, and any protection I may take for agriculture, I will take directly and not indirectly by any unfair tampering with the averages.. The Noble Lord, the Member for Lincolnshire, says that there are scarcely any two persons satisfied with the scale I propose for wheat, but that, with regard to barley and oats, my plan meets with universal condemnation. I think that, looking to the manner in which this plan has been received by persons of extreme opinions on both sides, and considering the diffi culty of effecting anything like a satisfactory adjustment of the question of the Corn-laws - considering the opinions advanced by th , advocates of free trade on the one hand and by tne advocates of protection on ti e other, I say that con entering the different opinions which have been advanced by the extremes of both parties, I feel confident that moderate men of all parties -if not entirely approving of the details of the proposed plan-will accept it as the result of much anxious deliberation, rather than enforce extreme opinions, and that they will infer from the manner in which it has been received by those entertaining extreme opinions on both sides, that on the whole there is nothing very unreasonable in it. and that if in itself it is a good measure it will be most de sirable that it should be adopted.-(Cheers. ) It has been brought forward by myself and my colleagues, under the be lief that on the whole it was the most safe and practicable measure that could be proposed in the present artificial state of our social relations. As I stated when I first proposed the measure, it has been brought forward, not for the purpose of protecting any particular class-not with a view of favouring any particular class at the expense of the others, but because we believed that, on the whole, it was the measure best cal culated to Serve the general interests of the country. -( Cheers. ) I offer it to the House under circumstances of great difficulty, as a great improvement of the existing law, and a compromise, which moderate men of all parties ought to accept. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman opposite, in his speech, which was throughout characterised by great ability, urged me not to lag behind the spirit of the age, not to propose any fall' measures, not to make any compromises of principle, but to bring forward such a measure as shall at once stamp me with the character of a statesman.-(Cheers.) I must tell the Hon. Gentleman that I disregard that taunt- I bring forward this measure as one calculated to effect a great practical good. I do not pretend to brimk it forward as one announcis g some great p r i nc ipl e f rom which the person bring ing it forward may reap for himself some temporary popu larity, but which when carried will leave all the practical evils precisely where it found them.-(Cheers and laughter.) I stand in a different position from that in which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman stands. I stand in a diffeient position to that in which the Noble Lord stands. I am trying to effect a practical adjustment of this most difficult question. It is easy for the Hon. Gentleman to say, carry out the great princi ples of free trade ; but what do I find? I find mighty interests which have grown up under the pr e sent system.-(Loud cheers. 1 I find that, under the present system, twenty two millions of quarters of wheat, and forty-five millions quarters of grain have been grown annually in this country. When I think of the immense capital embarked in growing this enormous quantity, what immense pecuniary interests do I find involved-what complicated social interests-how many families are there dependent for their subsistence and for their comforts on the contimianee of the present system ?-(Loud cheers.) Am I to disregard these in.. teiests altogether, and apply the principles of free trade-am I to disregard these immense social and pecuniary interests alto gether ? How many leave have there been granted on the faith of the continuance of the present system ?-( Hear.) Take the etNe of the tenant-at-will. Is it any answer to him to say this is a landlord's question ? His capital has been embarked in agriculture, and any sudden influx of foreign corn must, and would, most materially affect him. But if disregard him, what am I to do with the leaseholders ? How many thousand leases have been entered into on the faith of the existing law ? F r 150 years past agriculture has been pro'ected. Can I disregard that fact? It is no proof that the protection was wise in the first instance, but it is a reason for touchinglightl, those interests which have been established, and grown up under the present system. Then again recollect that under the Tithe Commutation Act. All your calculations have been made upon the price of corn under the existing eye tem. Then, again, with regard to Ireland, the Noble Lend proposes to admit oats at a duty of 3s. 2d. Does any one think that it is either wise or just, without an hours' notice to the Sister Kingdom, which sends us two millions of quarters annually-is it wise or politic, without notice, to admit such an influx of oats from the Continent, as would eventually drive her produce from the market, and which must be the case if oats are admitted at 3s. 2d. 2-( Hear, hear, hear.) Sir, when you make an arrangement with respect to corn, it is desirable also to consider what other produce is to be affected by your regulation. I would wish to substitute, for the principle of prohibition, in respect of other articles of produc tion, one of protection.-(Hear, hear.) I find that the pro posed duty would be, as regards Ireland, an absolute prohibi ti,,n,-(llear, hear.) And, Sir, I find that there are so many interests involved, that it is our duty to adopt any measure which may affect them, with the greatest caution.-( Hear, hear.) And I must say, that whatever may be the cla mour of those who say that there ought to be no prohibition or restriction on the importation of corn, I am still of opinion, that if we act with regard to caution and jus tice, we should adopt that measure which will give the largest share of satisfaction to all, and create no new source of dissatis faction.-( Hear, hear.) It was in this spirit, Sir, that the Go vernment brought forward the measure which I have laid be ! fore the House in opposition to those who are advocates of an entirely free trade.-( Hear, hear.) I do believe this measure to be, a great improvement upon the existing system.-(Hear, hear.) It is one whit-h the agriculturist can accept without danger, and which will at the same time admit foreign produce more advantageously to other classes than it is admitted at pre sent. The Noble Lord speaks of the immense advantage of his plan as promoting our intercourse with the United State., and of putting them upon the same footing as the Baltic Countries. The Noble Lord told us what an immense advan tage it would be to be able to carry on at all times a regular 1 trade with them.-(Opposition cheers.) But the Noble Lord said et the same time that corn from the United States would furnish us with corn at 475. a quarter, exclusive of the duty ; yet the Noble Lord fixed the duty at Bs. the quarter, and that would amount to no less a prohibition upon American corn than that which I propose. But I do not lay a stress upon the corn paris in. I only say that it would be a prohibition of the constant importation of corn from the United States. -(Cries of " Hear, hear." j It may be less a prohibition, and less objectionable than the present, but it is a pt ohibition as far as regards the United States.--(Hear, hear.) I have pro posed the duty, not because I desire to promote the interest of a particular class, but because I thought it necessary to give the farmer such protection as would be sufficient to encourage him to pursue a system of improvement.-( Hear, hear.) It has been shown that the average production of corn is 45,000,000 of quarters, and I thought it right to give the farmer an encou ragement to go on in that course of production without gua ranteeing to him a continuance of the same prices in every season.--(Hear, hear.) The Right lion. Baronet then went into a comparative statement of the average prices of corn at the ports, which he said were chosen by the Noble Lord (J. Russell) as illustrations of his principle, and which he (Sir Robert Peel) contended would give for foreign an average of 41s. 21d. per quarter. Well now, what does Mr. Meek say with respect to this ? He says, that during the last twenty-five years the average price of wheat has been 28s. Iod. per quarter. The average price of barley 14s. per quarter, and the average price of oats 10s. 6d. Mr. Meek says in case of a regular demand in England fur foreign corn the quantity g-own in Denmark would be considerably increased. I know that in passing a law for the importation of foreign corn I. must consider in coming to that determination, to what ex tent I shall affect the agricultural interests by this system of legislation. I must not consider what may be the price of corn at the present moment, but what may be the future prices as operated upon by increased improvement in railroads and other systems of transit. I take all these considerations into account, when I am trying to legislate upon this question, and I hope and trust that my steps are legitimate. Now Mr. Meek says that the rate of freight from Elsinore varies from 3s. to 3s. 6d. a quarter. He says the prices paid for a number of years ap pears not to have exceeded for wheat 3s. 6d., for barley and oats Is. fid. to Is. 4d. (ar we understood). I think I have shown that if wheat at Elsinore is 28s. 10d. the quarter, and the freight does not exceed 4s. the quarter, that Denmark corn could be introduced here when the price was much lower than 61s. or 625. But then you will say, perhaps, the quantity from Den mark .is not material.-( Hear, hear, from the Opposition benches.) But Mr. Meek has calculated that from 150,000 to 300,000 quarters--and he says he should suppose that this would be the smallest quantity which might be expected to be shipped to Great Britain in years of scarcity here-that is, that when the prices were high, from one country alone, according of Mr. Meek 300,000 quarters might be ex it,Vtirdle,ti,lnulCintsye brought in in years of common necessity. I say, then, seeing that this quantity of corn would be sent from Denmark, do not discourage the home producers, do not tamper with their interests, by permitting the corn from Den mark totally to disturb your market by throwing into it this excess. (in that ground I vindicate my duty of '2os., not as a protection personally intended for the farmer, bat in order to prevent our being totally dependent upon foreign countries. That hope is sincere. 1% hat I contend for is, that tI e supply from abroad shall be supplemental, and that it shall not be so substantial that our main hope shall be upon it. If you take that as contrasted with the supply of wheat which we might get from foreign markets, to the extent of some 22,000,000 or 9 5,000,000 of quarters, and if again you tell me that I cannot look for the introduction of those 22,000,000 of quarters of corn, you only convince me that my proposition is a just one, and that by it we should not be exposed to the hostility or to the caprice of foreign markets; for depend upon it the tune may come when deficient harvests may be in other eosin• tries as well as in this-the time may come, I say, when you will regret you had not taken advarskge of such a measure as I now propose to protect your interests, and that you will then find you have relied too much upon the supplies of other coon. tries, each of which, in turn, might be hostile to you, and in times of scarcity impose rhicoti a n t s , ;enorr kn ou spov, thisro.bibitors• duty upon their productions too that, in a question of this sort, exposed as it is to the vat ia lions of seasons to such great fluctuations as those which must naturally have the effect of rendering our own produc tions variable, depend upon it that the strict principles of free trade in an article of national subsistence, such as this is, can not be settled without danger ; and my firm belief is, that it you rely so much on other countries for a supply of corn, the hostility or scarcity of those countries might produce the most fatal results. I do believe that the scale which I propose be tween 545. and 60s. will admit. of the introduction of a fair quantity of corn, and that it will not induce so great a quantity as will be injurious to the country._(hear, hear.) But I want to secure those interests.-( Cheers.) Let us take the upper pert of my scale, lot instance, and consider that scale with those hitherto proposed. Take, suppose, that part of the scale between 645. and 725.-times which indicate severe pees sure. When corn is 625. a quarter, I think even whet, it is abo , e 60s. a quarter, the interests of the consumer ought to predominate.-( Hear, hear.) I th nk the interests then of the grower ought to be overlooked, and that the interests of the consumer ought to predominate. - (Cheers.)__ ou. en can That is un- questionably a fair protection. But how H s . ay a thatmyscaleis c n h o ce i r m s, and provem c e o n u t nt o er n cthheeerpa.re) Gentlesen m l t law is really a delusion.-(am , confess, surprised how Hon. Gentlemen can compare those scales, and say there is no difference between them.-(Hear, hear, and ironical cheers.) I will now read the scale • of duty which I have proposed for the adoption of this House, as compared with, the present scale. Whert.the average price of wheat is from 655. to 665. a quarter, I propose that the duty should be 7 1 ., w h ereat the present duty i s 21 s. Bd. ; at 645., it is, according to my scale, only Ss., whereas it is 225. Bcl. Now, it continues at Os- from 661 . to till. a quarter, and then it is diminished grativaNy until it. comes down to Is. a quarter. I say that that scale is tls best calculated to secure real and permanent advantages to ti, country, and benefit our agricultural, rs well as our commercial and manufacturing interests.--( Loud cheers.) Now suppose corn 665. per quarter, a duty of 6s. attaches ; the same duty attaches also for 675. and 68s. ; it ap pears to me the holders of foreign corn would rather realize his corn at 685., with a duty of 69., than wait for the chance of the price rising to 725. or 735. I think he will pour in his foreign corn when the duty is 6s. These are the calculations which will enter into his mind; and my belief is that foreign corn will pour in to such an extent when corn is from 645. to 655., as vt ill be a great service to the consumer. Now, what was the scale proposed by Mr. Canning in ItOS? At 645. his scale proposed a duty of I 2s. , mine a duty of So. ; at 6is. his was 10s., mine is 7s. ; at 66 5. his was Se., mine is 6s. I will now take the Noble Lord's scale, end I will compare the high price in his scale with the high prices in mine. lie would continue the duty of Ss. when co n was from 645. to 70,5. ; at 70s. under my scale the duty would be 45., at 735. on my scale Is. ; at 735. on the Noble Lord's scale, unless be slipped them down to nothing, would be Ss. How can it be pos sible to examine the two scales and not admit that mine is more favourable to the eonsureer than the duty of Ss., and 'hat inference is drawn by those who ate better judges of this subject than we are. You are not to judge from the statements made by the free traeer, but you should examine j the reports of those who are most conversant with the corn trade, and they have come to a unanimous conclusion in favour of my scale. The Hon. Gentleman the Member for Coventry -and much amused I was with his speech-represented those dealers in corn as innocent doves, easily to be deceived. At first he says " This will cause great relief to the country, many holders of foreign corn will not keep it back till a duty camel to a shilling a quarter, but they will admit it at Ss. and 7s. The advantages to consumers will be considerable," with the view that if my Bill became a law I should be doing a great deal for the Corn-law. But he says " they will be deluded at at first, though the time will soon come when they will see that it is better to keep their corn till the duty comes to a shil ling." But this attempt to deprive me and my plan of the advantages which must result from it, greatly to the relief of the consumer, shows to what extremities lion. Gentlemen have been led. I received this morning a letter from Liver pool, from one of those unfortunate gentlemen so easy to take in ; it is dated Liverpool Coin Exchange, Feb lb. it rays that " the proposed scale must be considered a great change." Let us take the prices of the old scale, and compare th em w ith the present. \l'ith the present price of wheat at Liverpool, 61s. lOd., the duty under the old scale would be 2.35. Sd. ; under my scale it is I Is. On rye the duty is 9s. 6d , under my scabe it will be 2s. 6d. The duty on beans is 18s. 3d. ' under my scale it will be 6d. On Peaske duty is 16s. 9d. Under my scale it would be 2s. 6d. ; and oIA American flour the duty at present. is 15s. sid. per barrel ; under my scale it will be I3s. 6d. But yon tell me it is of no advantage. It is impos sible, when you look to particulars, and when you apply your judgments to the case, to come to that conclusion. lam new speaking when prices are high, and I think it is impossible for any rational man, considering the arguments that have been adduced, to say that I have been practtsir ' , a miserable delusion, and sin giving no advantage wh a t ev e r . Yon tell me to abandon the whole thing. You say that all parties are disappointed and some say it is better to retain the present law"; that is better hold to the grievance that public indignation may be directed against it. I think it the wiser policy to improve it. -(Cheers)-and till you fall back on an Ss. duty, the N'Lble Lord says -"Do not disturb unless you settle ; the reten tion of old cu s toms i s , accor di ng to Lord Bacon, very unwise." But the disturbance of o ld - customs, unless you settle and arrange amicably, is more unwise still.-(Loud cheers. ) He tried the Bs. (filly last year, and he proposes it now, but does lie hope to carry it. with satisfaction to the country? If he does, notwithstandins , that detachment of allies, who lie upon his left flank to night-(a " laugh )-and who, though they may vote with him upon the present occasion, do not appear to be his very ardent supporters—he seemed to have shown considerable uneasiness during this dis cussion, because they told him that his measure aided those principles which they advocated; and, under these circumstances does the Noble . Lord, supposing that, by dint of a majority, he may carry his fixed duty of Ss., hope it will be a permanent and satisfactory settlement of the question? —( Hear, hear, hear.) If the Noble Lord passed a fixed duty last year, this year, as Minister of the Crown, he would come forward, glowing with the light, which had broken in upon him, to propose another alteration.—(Cheers.) I speak it not in his dispraise, but I speak to warn him not to be too confident of being able to maintain a fixed duty of Bs. If prices should rise, in years of scarcity, you may depend upon it, a pressure would be made on you, and you would not be able to maintain your fixed duty. —( Hear, hear. ) I must think that that Corn-law which in volves a self-adjusting power, which is able to do without call ing in the intervention of Parliament, has a great advan tage over that other law which trusts to the exercise of executive authority ; and, therefore, if the Noble Lord is dissatisfied with my plan, and if the dis turbance of old customs is, according to the sage advice of Lord Bacon, a very unwise thing unless you settle perma nently, the Noble Lord must, I think, abandon his proposi tion, and act in confo:mity with that. philosopher's advice, if he thinks a duty of 8 , . will permanently settle the question. —(Cheers.) I thought it. absolutely necessary to vindicate the scheme I proposed against some of the imputations—unjust, I think—which have been cast upon it.—( Hear, hear.) I know the difficulties of any arguments or statements on such a ques tion. lam confident of the difficulties of my situation, and that when I try to answer your objections by showing that foreign corn may be introduced with advantage under the scale I have proposed, I am fortifying the objections of those who are averse to any change.—( Hear, hear.) if I try to calm any apprehensions there I see a note taken on the other side—( laughter)— and if I try to answer any unreasonable objections from the other side, I am met, not by a hostile note, but by the intimations and whispers of those who sit around me. Ido believe that in a mere party sense it may be wiser to say " We will stand by the Corn-law, we wilt resist all change." Some say " Amend the averages." The Noble Lord (Lord Worsley) is one.—(Hear, hear.) He says all that the Corn-law requires is an amend ment of the averages, and, therefore, he opposes ray measure.—(lle.,r, hear.) But other consiskoralsons pressed on those who were et arged with the administration of the affairs of this country.—(Hear, hear.) I stated before— I repe..t it—that in considering this question, the arrangements which ought to be made consistently with enlarged and com prehensive views, and avoiding thu disturbance of capital in the investment of agricultural pursuits, looking to the prosperity and social hapiness of the people, looking to the state of com merce, and the advantage. when there may be a deficiency at home, of having a supply of foreign corn, and introducing that corn so that there may be the least disturbance of the mo netary system, making the greatest approach to regular stealing, and giving the greatest encouragement consistent with due protection to agriculture to the interests of manufacturing in dustry—having to consider all these things, to weigh them, to balance their relative and comparative merits—the measure I say we have determined on is that which we conscientiously believe upon the whole to be the most consistent with the general interests of the country.—(Loud cheers.) We have not conferred with the agriculturists for the purpose of ensuring their concurrence and support. We have not per mitted an abatement in this particular or in that, in order to insnre the success of our measure: I gave a proof that I was ready to incur some risk—risk to the Government—by permit ting and advising that which I believe to be for the best advan tage of the community, and upon this principle we shall continue to act.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.) We shall expect, no doubt, violent opposition from some; from others exaggerated apprehensions. Conscious that we are acting on a principle which we believe to be right, our hope and confi dence is, that when the first storm of passion may have passed away—when cooler judgment and reason, and the examina tion of the documents which we have presented to the Howie shall have mitigated unjust apprehensions on the part of the agricultural body that then, though extremes may not be reconciled, and may continue irreconcilable, yet, after all, according to the old practice of this country, reason and moderation will gravitate towards that which is just, and, supported by that principle, anti by those who, though dif fering with ns in degree, may yet think that their present mea sure is an improvement, we entertain a confident hope . that we shall triumph over all obstacles, and have the satisfaction, without injury to the agricultural interest, and with benefit to the commercial and manufacturing interest, of amending the laws which regulate the trade in corn.—(Ministerial cheers. ) Lord PALMERSTON rose amidst loud cries of " Divide, divide," and " order." Ile said, Sir, at the close of the last session of Parliament, I ventured to express the apprehensions which I entertained that the measure winch the Government announced their intention to propose in the present session of Pat liament could not satisfy the expectations of the country, if it would be merely some re-adjustment of the sliding scale, or some change of the central pivot, and I took the liberty of warning the Government that such a measure would give satisfaction to none.—( Hear, from the Opposition benches.) The experience we have had since Parliament has met has justified the appre hensions which 1 entertained, and the warning which I then gave. After five months' experience—after ransacking the Continent for information, the Government comes down with a measure which is as imperfect as the one it seeks to remedy, and which has been justly described by my Noble Friend (Lord .1. Russell) in that terse and epigrammatic language, of which he is so aisle a master, as a measure which disturbsevery thing and settles nothing.—(Opposition cheers.) And what has been the result ? The result has been that whilst on the one hand the Government have dissatisfied their opponents. onthe s._ ot ( hoerptititin c,yohayshieedisrcz and discontented the o g f res , s , t No bu , l , k fr o o f m th t e h i e r friend Ministerial side,) Sir, the truth of my assertion is to be found in that. silence with which the lion. Gentlemen in that (the Ministerial) section of the House received the speech of the head of the Government the other night.—( Cries of " No" from the Opposition benches, responded in by cheers from the Opposition side.) Why the Right Hon. Baronet himself ad. mitted that. this measure would give almost universal dissatis faction. He has described in a lively manlier, within the litt few minutes the objections with which his measure is met. —(Cries of " Adjourn," Ordt r, order.") there were two courses open to the Government to be pursued in this matter. They might either have taken their stand upon the law as it if, as they asserted on a former occasion, they thought that this law was a good one, and that it was illexpedient to alter it. If they had taken that course, they would, no doubt, have been supported by a large majority of their party in this House, and might perhaps have carried their measure, and perhaps it would have been for the immediate interest of that party if the Govern ment had persevered in that course. Another course was, if they thought that the state of the country required a change in those laws--if they were desirous of conceding some thing to the feelings of the people, by attempting to apply a remedy to the distress of which the House has heard so much, they might have come dawn, disregarding all taunts from those who disapproved of their course, and re commended perfect freedom in the trade in corn. Sir, in such a course they would no doubt have been opposed by many of those who, at present, support them. There w ou ld have been a temporary secession, perhaps, of their s u pp or t ers , but they would have had support from other quarters— ( Laughter)—and would have carried their measure, That course would have been best for the country, and I beg leave to say that I think it would have been for the permanent interest of the Government itself. They have, however, decided otherwise. It is not given to man, much less to men in office, to please all parties ; but it has been given to them to displease almost all. —( Hear, hear.) I have no doubt, Sir, that the measure will be carried.—( Hear, hear, from the Ministerial benches. ) Silence gives consent, and though none of those gentlemen to whom I have alluded are found to express their acquiescence, no doubtthey will be found voting with the Right Hon. Baronet. -- (Hear, hear.) Now, Sir, lam a(rain.t this scale. lam against the other scale. Conceding if you will to the Right lion. Bat oust that the scale which he now proposes is a mi tigation in some respects of the scale as it now exists, Sti ll - is liable to sonic objections which the Right lion. Barone,: overlooked.—( Hear, hear.) When he states that thise . offers less scope for speculation and for ter pose of raising the prices, I think he i s : i nistaken. vai ( ii i s t. ng hear.) Sir, this scale arrives at the Why, that point by smaller degrees than the former o l ne t . o.p.a ____ to very circamstance offers, perhaps, additional unn• to raise persons to endeavour, when corn is at aeertat Varier this scale gambling for t it to the price at which the duty hat va n ishes.irthey could but raise persons who combine would feel_ d that if little, the duty the price, and if the price shout would not be a large one ; which they would fall back up ea n e, if they failed in getting k whereas, by the present „1 . , of one shilling adds materially it up to va.niihin croice. hye top ay. Therefore t he Rom, to the duty which it ~, ~,_ • . /# - '7/