The Sun. — London, England, 1855-04-24 00:00:00

I'IP-ERC-CL PARLIAMENT. 11°Q OF COMMONS —YESTERDAY. WAys AND BEANS —REPORT, f,. (Continued front our int, ression of yesterday,) .7 h r iti _PCt.taar'et,%'sA(DeleSTtO)N4irclVtllll bad power to give effect ? NE -ghat use . of . enacting giye a ac pledge.lanse t,,, ,:; 1 1 e purperted to be a contract to see" hive validity to a pledge it was necessary that it te),°,l4 ivet) to b pledge nd by somebody who . hail a eitting seal f ' the right of t ''' t° give it Bs°nturhe°lfuuare Parliament who might be th e I ,, e __ . ae,elll.! years hence questionwoultl. Nfl ying cut 1- hament to fetter their discretion_ by seem eter] pai ticular amount they sh . ut o 1 I devote to the re eizavi,otsitu ;2 e thi the particular stock in whic.hsttihyeyeays_htobneliyi ,rer "- qnestiona of which they won" Ju g Parliaeoiietrto raisetauPeP am, . 9 better judge% than .we. It was the duty of the theseanelaliture form4oillrethe t pro .nationaloeor ‘4 , And they Ovew:rte tirweslialies:ilntgonornonte the et r Ivs'n when f dlli° w"rdd ?succeed them on those bTesueh years soei On Aral so many millions in such n ,-. ' ne tal . e pThiciiiar elm roni _ epu ec i th b'; Treesury And not Only did this cl.ius t.refess to Is I)9 (II 1 A uruorrittee.that e a ar c . 'ertai n n ' sum and deveted to a e should at a future b l et itt?.'evoted to the redemption of the national debt, I ten ae rill i: lr ted to apply that sum to the rep . aym 860 or ent of plus eel() it ~_• . ed, eve noteho eould tell now whether o i e n r l eor tee, .iignt be the wiser course to devote or whether at eetTe to the trePartnent of Exchequer . hills bonds,or e they : eel s.'"°e4:? (Hear.he real question wa , e, f surplus itieo_ er e I l e, i , ._ eve prom o to mai ntenanee o th Il e ity enactments f this kind. For his own . pa_rt, he ow.), e ar ,. o th e 4e, liament would do better to rest satisfied with tee r rt"rmance °fie, own eety, and not to . undertake .llr t a e . 001 flallr pi• " , -' • by making de , • tioii, or . e, arearnents their duties, give them the Ilightettls'°!°g instructions which did not opiein_ .ssistance to do such duty. Nor wins he efth Ref this ki nd Etta ct• kep t li that a clause of this kind was harmless,. bone 0 People. The even of h tt o. d a te . n de t n c t y h t e o b t e h li r e o f v oi d at o s t t b l ti n gill wool,}eve 10. tizeich we were pretty se ,_, , y e ave rise o be for the creation eferitseY tended to give undue facilities for tare fotev e zi a rd tabed provide paper facilities welt convince , } .. would not . for theireearY loans, by professing to tt that con redemption. Re thought that the m e o re re straight. explicit the house was in all m a and in this el- le th e stet lll nneY n . f the people, the better;_es tothi tg 10 LemPt which they called p . rn il i n laak e Ilb vagll4 paper promises whichthey to fulfil. Ile ei ti °(1 which they would not find othe had no o r ri el h ly t tl iett 4 .11 ' 4 think such a course either wise. jureet, as One other ,or. Parliament to pursue. (Hear ) There w t. o of the h e Pallit to vvhich he washed to call the atten i or expe ,the o ther . i -t was no doubt through inadvertence that on t he reeiv.l?ight the house passed, not merely be teem ed " ';' , o?g to the loan, and those in i:efere in conformity eat tisli9tioa on coffee, sugar, and spirits , / reference to the t to the in athetio7_, eniael, custom, but also those in re _ stamp cicioettlyt onu'ililiake,:sii,e-ethax, and thel onetterre imposingwereye'ry. e ld be neert,".°fle be reescgullions o o ‘ f r ilie ' former kind t sa • Tut eittii,v_ea ea the night of the finuncial stateieea he ,e, Cottko ,4elsots did not exist in the latter car, and. gi(_! heirlll that Parliament would be inclined to give eeit,,_ re4ht of fully thecussine these resolutions, calledie fie i l t e r the necessity of .the ease nor previous mit? Situiv 44 4 e fn, ti e had no doubt that what had occurr not be dra we 1 a inadvertence hut he hoped it would 4, 'l t ," 8 Preeedent. ' (Hear hear.) et the I,” u,l•ll\i 3PGR EGO Et sail that the to Pablk ''`eneetter o ght to h aye thrown the loan ornhe 'ar • Frnop,titlon u I h t Chancellor a the xc . ti__ tr e i i , Lave . ant t a, the 1 on eet 14, 4 " J err 20,0000)0Chancellor • terminable i Itehe "an 4 Per cent which, with ' ere qer- bill s er3 000, 000 a In . u o i f . 11 have" • i,, caned, re 'b oa ' to the imposition . ii".reese,i tit ll out having recourse given him all thefunds.. of agreed with i t ri ti , dies on tea and coffee. He quite • 'ty of Oet o ,`'` fl a. fri for the Univers i ty I,_ Je t tea t •„ e end the member t to pledge a future th'erifila:ienttitntb:use bad no right kr l / 4 , t , "" i a urrreela.ym( He t a o r, hear. ) en f r l - 000,00_1. in tel., '.tNG Reaiil th the desired to say a few war's r ~, net 's , , a per annum of the bon. L'Atae e nine e ar the rem which he had made on a forme be: 'i'•ll9lch irksai , misepprehended hY t on that t-ratisiet (~°r_tattetingdon Mr. Baring) He did I n ] raised by ill„lnnabr,u_tend that this loan should haveeboeneteedeit was, 44ettivir,t, sonarativietse si mply. _ What h 1 a si t ble e to raise it by one tk'ti'lllaallitlern4tives el e l e li fi e r r a f t ec o t Y tl ' hy a system ° of a 14,11'iIhelreina,.ali_uities, and the f other -eose b b e y h t i li g e creation tf iih their credit, tt, i i 'n resiiTia rate of i ntereut-probably 3i per cen .. le ay. ' tai, ,ulve enabled Government, stated, the e,,Par. i l ne the requisite amount of stock w in the market ivvortteZ.the res. tit plan, as he had then . siiLerest,tiu,';laerificetl the chance of reducing i and it had etl'aeott,,,,,tne, Whole amount if they bon•owe t , _ eat. con. 141tItierre to`ateohilairomett .. th rate of U Wiate",','. disad for as the Three Per u deiiien vantage, the money the hN„,l4lloth 3' de Pressed their own va u , regulated. For that marlkeet, but of e g e a t e er the cities which they 1 the . creation "ea " °ll ght th l e 1•a to avou 1 eat a also • . %klir Thr e ey oug t a %TAY t in cases O. have 1 ) ,, tetley „...e Per Cent. C 'mole. excep loan might . 4 1 rsii . tie Still maint •fined that the A the possible Ic y ' r Re it . I'l terminable annuities, and that . „or, of /rice. Pet e . I n' th a en?"' he had littl,„ rtinr,e, ern taken was simply , railways, kind of 50e 1 1 1 ,7 (I,, r , t °, to the came of the Frencn . ng that a ~ 'ty i,, ~.8 0 ,, for the purpose of show , already invested t al marwhich lee the millions had been its b e i ng taken e Y th e , ,e etibl and that No doubt a -elle' etieli, e any other,of price. h,,tit oi•etia was sineply a question in instance, made the first . Ilk(1111,° an'iPerifice must be f this description ,t,eitei } el' a large amount of stmk available in the mar lee,4llsl we-:al°,l, it V fOtliti not be so l wer price. But he ?tlllte L1°11411°141" t see bear a me o neing the 13%°(1%. t,lithtl, aetv ser we werPt Caostaworth while pattingup `,!,c) hats eis_e_ of loans, i sake of having a security .bi. e.tyl,Peyttenvaritage for the guaranteed by its termina. tli f i intig it whio, Was Believing as he letOt i t w 'ne as Bich of the contract. perpetually ee iti 0 eh„, ,,, a' not right to burden posterity the right hon. N 44 1, . Of 'Ulla description he, like arty to 04).remeintipo!ate (alr. Goulburn). would be no p which. lieereßaratei which he consiolerea entirely illusory paper to re ivte eii,„l4-pIY as assertine something on ld hold us (ilearwheen simIZT doing s omething which won ieencies. hn. •,,i'itTr.) ef"eliti to the test of futur lth ex tiie riht 4 r. J . , e!iiee if hill_eulatl4, the.refore Y amendment to a division. svas i,,,,e'4vlE afkoti.* oil his am that money bll t the °II l a Pre ''"t:•.Oß said it was true security, d_r n the p refi aeh Nil*, , i , a terminable : elate that they consi ts of th,.,i.aYs % undertakings were so side 4:a,!'1.9 for whateTtalthittee e; sum being e„.„,,,set ~the es e t e l i t V, rio th at "te Preneh called the amortise men t would ° „eqe(le the whol the end of the terra the lend er s had itl- Nab, (Re ar, ba einotiet of the capital they . RI xteen nli 13 hea b' ear.) of believed that these _ . Thr. 'cilial. be eht •,. llor of the .6 a kp eet cal as fave ,alned by the Chan„e . as could be , art , ea oor 1, uraele terms for the public f the kind tha;eli thros„lll4.4 vie ever seen an operation .0- . b those er!ed withle._l(l a. more creditable manner by te 4 l ll T. 1.11,2,;1 tueting it on bshal fof the public.._ t. hoe. Ale i e , e r forth -,Ey- Was surprised to hear the rvenrimise til,);)'6'og is*", Li niveraity of Oxford object times f the e‘,4nYie, the rocnaption .at a future o his ktk e pli qy ,Zng raised on loan. For to what else did_3 ie t it the tistiti nat. when he isened Exchequer bonnsteeam_ liele. t, to telpore taxes for the purpose of red _ or 4,1 'lg,init'" (4,ite agreed with the hon. men:ther th e 4 te of Iti thinking that although no doubt a future ineLclale on ilta , e °ll ° inight reverie the decision to which not th„sistett with present occasion, yet that it iti...;_ccei,i toll their ( h ay ti ah ow in the best manner of t i l t i tlee o„ heir honesty of purpose, and that it, was their vte,. latioo ,'e resumption of peace to impose an amount that ,e itos, ea(leetiate to t ree e a 1 ent of the loans After , t u elit to be contrearetePdY n te! lt e l % CkpeZ words froin Mr. WILIUNSON, re„lllie ttt;ur-VrE Lt. Raid that he had heard with , some ti lt * f or ii. P.nlarle.i of the hon. member for _Pet i e were ea tt l e • te e fori7. things were perfectly distinct thing _, a P 411,1,144 ti ta t". 9 Rouse of Commons to do a a' lolls Pretsitte!. etl . d the other for them to enter into vague T.. Ak4 te4iii: which they themselves had no power to ember itil'ther,,,itte'he else referred. to hy the hem a When the I,,thiegger i)nnettrerent from the present loan. tholetlia i° a eert I sin ' i were Lulled, the condition for repayment .. ;nder e. Perio s a etipuletion entered into with was not l'ele,ll.o likely wag Part of the contract, and..()r_,.... tie,, humee,etto be broken. The t . axes, tillertetw_ e a , L'H b t the Ne,t,",e's,;elowere to ba reaiutamed. I h i But contended zett4t6nttllt:ll:iva'ci 1 a uftBne twh. Tim bcfconstitute any obligation e, ii l lie t ) e,,,,,, 1 e I that it svouuld nmoerely act as an opiate,ralrny 1 11 ti and that believe that thie was a mere tempoment oe ee nie .of em Provision had been matte for its re that , ac ie r le tt fa r ° at the same time . we knewo such tl 14:04 tiAll'jrn al words of an act of Parliament , no ( fir 1 . 4 1 , 04y . beep re ma de, because it was not_enic_ Wick Burghs Ado e . l ag) sai hon. member for the W n tannin - Aoe i t t i initi e, (I that the borrowing of money doubt it was. ik irse IN th: v ;" a pie-ti nof price. No don heuer to t e t si e th, ~, duty of the Chancellor of the Exc and or si ", tee, res e al cal culation s on matters of price, f vourable ql4 4 '°l' the loan was negotiated on . as a that the o,:ieller iPtiblie a, posSible. He believed Illa tin i e )° ' a nd liee x.elleoluer had done so the present on ti•tted in a that thr hi ghl y nt the present loan was ne 0 g Pie thought the , e re we "'Pante eons to the public. suffring gie. t. e4t iee s e a o°l4 l advantage to be gained ben aging to the 4104 Alice consequent un not oefnit4b::loan, i ll ti le '" w ' i tl4l l a suttilY notic e of the repayment difficulty Th e 0,? of ae,P,lletion imposed an insuperableres,. , t (Hear.) *44 qa.aeoeveinture eduction of lute h I listened ' h_kei the t ie n,1 41.0 It of the EXCHEQUER a( arlii th 4'04 respect t the remarks of his right hon. t i ' h l id is tehllistabers for 11::o two universities upon thepro th,o44:aBlntion before the house with respect n t o o t. ti ' ar. T'ilPaYrnent of the loan after the expira d tio nom. 5t4114 g r eat e.°Pinions which they exprossed .woul t• °trier' Weight, not only from their extensive financialuee_ '4 4, but , Of th4t also from their great ability on all q ,u. !lati'rl 1 4 crj• tiattlre. lie fullY admitted that the ream of ttlePete w as not a matter ot centract with the lend note, 4 'a 16,01 e to the E li to ei ev.oo/ - that it was perfectly open leret' 'ell" the queetion without any limit upon their 01,54 lee e „ ..an , l'etiO b efe re 'I that they were at liberty to deal with the e4 it, le e 1140 them as they rnigut think fit. But the pr er, artee,iiiti te'en made deliberately to the house by .tir thrti''Oitine ' who believed it to be a proper and defensitele t 4 ' it th e '. 'jig when the prope r time came they would L,., N isi ()fir este. 1. ,, ytO adhere to that Proposition, and take 111: think wee Lou% Upon it. ( Hear.) Re could not Dr,,,N:t of Ot there h a I been some misapprehensi on on the ehiraitine file lion friend s as to the precise effect of to ex. Itttttttio..` 3”tielitn. When he honourlilattetheprc, t position, he thhili'ecteli:itelntl 4igat hethv:ans aatwaarreeothat he could make no ej , teloille 4i'vae---) that no act passed in tha , vao r, rneoetaldg , a sei, tei _l4l es wn_n,t_efteen years heace- 1 ofataheir successors. "' l e trc Y the ut ut uu tte up the hands.. friends ioti:of i t r. i ti ii , _ r ne .oleetl(.)n Which his right hon. act laeltlie tie _ to oposttion might be made to almost every ratiet," thich passed that house, and affected future tle'en ell'i e t he r.) There was nothingpeculiar in the pro *it*ri ti,), „41! how rtisde as respeeteil a ece?trol over t e l'l h,ree,, i•lian:etit itself. The effect which the clause . pit it It reeeived the authority of law Was this 14) (1 . eie t ea Peritement charge upon the Consolidated I`tits '' wol ll , i b Government 't of provis. ecoine the duty of everyoo_ ally e ett . th e It. ion fur the re duty , t of 1,000, eO/.ann aeirentiv e, a3 ' . B and mean s of the year. (Year.) R. was kiiiii.ir tii-ttv.Te that the nation might ,Nitin be esiiitgagehiolini toty,et INk, [4lare needit be some pressinnecessityothi in kit pertinit expedient that no surplus revenue ti f 1 bt • i ' t i f f ; t hat w ' v Yealebe applied to the reduction o. i e , t'e il - ' lB th t . .' l. ‘i 80 , it wont,' be competent to Parliament it ,leet,s,,? eanes of the Go vernmen`t, and repeal, either lacettinY or temporarily the erovWon which rendered tkHNI nt on th - ' - •i a million ap es ,9 f,,,. the . e Govern about to prow, e inake extinction of the debt. The then Parliament ited to the tsittieloey or tT:l:.proviiina which might be i.iu . , _fen. Prelitie the had t une ; but until Perli•inaant 'IA so ;e ° l7n r d to ef t i s ;3 th, itiltts of Geveriarnent, it would be 0 • ction Irt t th)l. (li e ' on min uailv, and a.pply it to the extin . m ate t o i i r., w a y ha t was all that it was possible 01 4 the of putting a limit upon the dia. cretien of a future Parliament. They were unwilling to create a permanent burden upon posterity ; but cireutn stencee prevented theui from borrowing any large Rum of money in terminable aenuities. It had been stated by the boa. member for Huntingdon, who spoke on subjects of that description with great authority—and his statement would be confirmed by all persons who carefully examined the question—that a loan of 16,000,0 'Ol, could not effected in terminable annuities without giving terms so extrava gant that the Government would justly be condemned by that house if it consented to grant them. (Hear, hear.) He even questioned whether, without giving terms abso lutely extravagant, a loan of so large a sum as sixteen millions could be effected at all in terminable annuities for thirty years. The objections on the part of the public to receive their capital in driblets year by year, subjecting them to the necessity either of spending their capital as income, or of reinvesting it in small sums under cheque stances of difficulty and embarrassment, would be so great that it was questionable whether so large a loan could to effected at all in terminable annuities. The Government had gone as far as they could do in effecting a portion of the loan in terminable annuities ; anti if they had thought it expedient to raise the bulk of it in Consols, they at the same time proposed to apply one million annually to the redemption of the debt so contracted. ,Trle was willing to edmit that the obligation so to provide and apply that one million annually was not of a paramount nature—that it was in the power of Parliament at ::ny time to rescind it— but it was impossible for them, without makieg the repay ment of the debt a matter of contract between the Govern ment and the lenders, to iurpOse any more stringent obli gatien upon future Parliaments. His right hon. friend the member for the University of Cambridge had made some remarks as to the inexpediency of contracting this loan in the Three per Cent. C o ns u l s , an d h a d stated that he would have preferred it to have been contracted in the Three per Cent. Ite.lueed Aunuities, on the ground that the one could not, be i edeeined without one year's notice, whereas in the other description of security that was not the case. The right hon. gentleman spoke of Consols as if they were an unredeetnable stock. In doing so, he confounded two ideas which appeared to be wholly different, namely, the reduc tion of interest upon tne stock, and the extinction of that stock. If that house should at any future time—as he hoped it would—snake a real sinking fund, that was to say, not an imaginary or illusory sinking fund founded upon the principle of borrowing and of compound interest, but a simple sinking fund derived from the surplus taxation of the year—he saw no reason why Console, or any other per petual annuities should not be re loomed by the Govern ment goiug into the market and buying up their own an nuities, thus extinguishing bath debt and interest. He confessed he was not very sanguine as to'the possibility, at any tithe within the lifetime of 'the present generation, of reducing the interest of any 3 per cent, stock ; but he saw uo reason for thinking that they might not advantageously extinguish any amount of 3 per cent. stock by the annual application of the surplus taxation. Some honourable members seemed to think that it was ,not in the power of the Government to extinguish a perpetual annuity. They contrasted a terminable auuui' y as being something which the Government could extinguish with a perpe tual annuity, as being something which the Govern ment could not extinguish. He must be permitted to 'say that no error could be more apparent with regard to a sim ple financial question. It was convenient to the Govern ment to borrow in perpetual annuities, because they never could be called upon to pay the t rincipal at any definite time, and it was convenient to the lender to lend in perpe tual sten aid s, because he never could be called upon a any definite time to receive back his principal. The conveni ence was mutual; but if the Government was in the pos. &mien of a surplus revenue applicable to the extinction of debt, it could go jute the market and buy its own perpetual annuities, and as effectually extinguish the debt as if it had contracted the loan 111 terminable annuities. The propositions which had been made at different times for the establi,huieut of a sinking fund had gone upon the as sumption that it would be impossible in that manner to extinguish debts. He regretted that the acts relating to the stnkiug funds of 1823 and 1827, Which rendered it necessary that a surplus revenue in the first instance of 5,000,e00/. and in the second of 3,000,0001. should be applied to the redemption of debt, had been repealed, and he trusted that whenever the present war should h ,ve ceased, it would be in the disposition of Parliament to revert to that system. But let not, the house suppose that there was any difficulty in the n:• tore of perpetual annuities which impeded the extin, tion of that description of stock. Something had been sail upon the sue jest of opening a subscription loan. He entirely concurred with the very instructive remarks made upon that point by the hon. member for Huntingdon, who illustrated it by a comparison of the different circumstances of England and France. It was to be remembered that if the Govern went had opened a subscription loan they should nut only have encountered the difficulties referred to by the hon. member for Huntingdon, but they would also h'.ve created a demand upon the savings banks which they could only have met by a sale of the stock in the hands of the Cetmeessioners for the Iteduetion of the National Debt. (Hear.) Nor ought hon. members t , forget another cir cumstance—namely, that in a loan raised by subscription it would be necessary for the Government to fix the price at which they would receive the eub.criptions. The lists would necessarily be kept open for a considereble time, and the Government, would lose the advantage of that competi tion_in the money market which they secured in the case of contractors, and even when it happened, as in the pre sent loan, that only one tender was sent in, because the person who made the tender acted with the ktiowlelge that if the terms he offered were not reasonable there were others ready to come forward and ,offer more moderate terms. (Hear.) He had listened with satisfaction to the testimony rendered by so great an authority as the hon. member for Huntingdon and other members of that house with respect to the terms on which the loan had been con tracted. He had every reason to believe, babe all he had heard since the acceptance of the tender, that while the terms were fair and not disadvantageous to the con tractor, they were also beneficial to the public, and that the very onerous responsibility which lay upon the executive Government in contracting a loan without its being pos sible for them to obtain the previous eatiotien - of Perlia wont, had been fulfilled in a manner which woull, he hoped, receive the aperoval of that house. Some remarks had been Made as to its being desirable that the Govern ment should, before receiving tenders for a loan, inform that house of the conditions upon which they proposed effecting the loan. He could assure the house that if it had depended urerely upon the wish of the Government to free themselves from a somewhat painful responsibility, they would unquestionably have resorted to that course. They found no alternative left them, however, but strictly to adhere to the practice of former times, and take upon Letoselves the responsibility of making a provis:onel con tract before submitting the subject to that house. With re ference to what fell from the right hon. gentleman the member for the University of Oxford as to the passing of the income tax resolution on Friday night, he could only express his regret that ho should unintentionally have done anything contrary to the practice of the house with reference to such resolutions.. It was entirely owing to his inex .erience in such matters. Nothing was said on the subject of the income tax when the resolution was read from the chair. If any objection had been communicated to him he would unquestionably have postponed the reso lution ou the income tax. (Hear.) He was not aware that there were any other points which required explana tion at present; but he should be glad to furnish any fur-- ther iulormetian which the house might 'desire. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY thought the loan was on the whole a fair transaction, though he complained of the amount as excessive, wising from the large margin of 5,000,0001. which the Chancellor of the Exchequer had allowed him self in the estimated expenditure for the year. He also ap proved of the proposed plan for the repayment of the loan in annual instalments of 1,000, 0001 . There had recently been extensive sales of savings' banks stock. He wished to have au explanation of those trausactions which had ex cited a good deal of observation, and which were calculated o t o f t p h r o n luce much mischief. He objected to the Chancellor o. Exchequer burrowing money on terminable annui ties one day bn putting an additional income tax on the annuitants the next. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the sales of savings bank stock had baen made untkr distinct powers, created by an act of Parliament, which authorised the Government to direct the Commissioners for the Re duction of the National Debt to sell stock belonging to savings batik+, and to receive in exchange other Government securities. The house were aware that exchequer bills and ways and means bills, thoegh they were temporary and re newable, were just as binding upon the Government as those securities which were of longer duration. When, therefare, the National Debt Commissienei s sold savings b Luk stock,, and took in exchange exchequer bills from the Government, they did not diminish the strength of their security. With regard to the income tax and the annui tants, he could only repeat the explanation which he gave on Friday - night. The lenders of money on terminable an nuities necessarily took into their calcul atiotas possible flue tuft; ions iu the amount of the income tax; and as they would benefit by any diminution in the impost, he thought it uas but fair they should take their chance of an increase. Mr. W. WILLIAMS inquired whether the 86,000,000/. for which provision had been made included the cost of collecting the revenue ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was under stood to reply in the affirmative. Mr. GLADSTONE suggested that, instead of binding the commissioners to lay out the 1,000,0001. annually in consols, the resolution should leave them at liberty to select whatever description of security they might consider expe dient at the time. There was another alteration which he had to propose. The resolution bound the commissioners to purchase 1,090,0001. of consols annually until the whole 16,0u0,000/. should have been redeemed. But a portion of the consols might be redeemed from other sources ; and if that were so, the Chancellor of the Exchequer would not be able to redeem the 16,000,000/ with his annual sum of 1,000,0001., but , _perhaps not more than 5,000.000/. or 6,000,000/. If they were to have a clause of that kind at all he thought it should be efficient for its purpose. Mr. BAILING could not help thinking that the sugges tion of the right hon. gentleman would frustrate the ob ject of the clause. There were a great variety of debts, and the right hon. gentleman proposed to say to the com missioners, "Here is a surplus of 1,000.000/. per annum, nod you must apply it to buy off a portion of any of the existing debts you please." But the object of the Chan cellor of the Exchequer was that, over and above what might be done with respect to the other debts, there should be 1,000,000/. applied annually to the reduc tiOn of the neNly-created debt. (Hear, hear.) The real object of the clause was that beyon d any other call upon the Exchequer, 1,000,000/. should be applied to the redemption, by purchase, of consols, And he could not un derstand what other object the right hon. gentleman's pro posal could have than entirely to frustrate the whole reso lution. Mr. GLADSTONE thought he was hardly open to the charge of attempting to frustrate a clause the object of which he ha►d risen to facilitate by his suggestions. Mr. T. BARING had meant to speak, not of the right hon. gentleman's object, but of the effect of his suggestions if carried out. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would ask the right hon. gentleman to allow him time to consider his suggestions; but he did not see that there would be any objection to give power to apply 1,0,!0 0001. to theo the re demption o f any perpe t ua l stock. With regard to other point, it was difficult for Lim to see the precise legal effect of the clause, but if it were possible, consistent with the resolution, to alter the words so as to make the mean ing clear, he would have no objection to do so. Mr. WILLIAMS complained that tho sum of 86,000,000/. did not include the cost of collection of the revenue, yet it was most important that that should be made clear. The object of the former commission was to bring the whole ex- Penditure of the country under the view of the house, and there was no reason at all why the large amount which the collection cost should be kept out of view this year, al though the late t hancellor of th e E xc h equer h a d g i ven verY sufficient reasons why it should Hot have appeared last year. :Were thht amount brought under the view of the n use it would be seen that the real expenditure would be not 86 .b00,000t. but 9.1,000,0001. Mr. JAMES WILSON said that this year the accounts had continued to be made up on the old principle. The cost of collection woula be bonctikie before the how; but he THE SUN*, LON DON, TUESDAY EVENING, APRIL 24, 1855. quite agreed that the accounts should be so made up as to show the gross amount required and the gross amount to be expended. SPIRITS. Mr. WHITESIDE said that by the words of the resolu tion duty was fixed upon every gallon of spirits in the cus tody, stock, or possession of any dealer or distiller, and he wished to know whether it was meant retrospectively to fasten the new duty on stocks in the possession of dealers who had paid the existing duty. 'Coffee and sugar in stock were not treated in the same way, and he did not see why spirits should be singled Out. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCIEQUER said it had always been the practice to i❑clude stock in the possession of dealers in all cases, either of imposition of new duties or of reduction of old ones. Mr. FAGAN protested against the injustice of imposing duty on stock that had already paid it. It had not always been the practice to include stock in the possession of dealers, but he admitted that stock in the hands of the dis tiller—the producer—had been so included. If the hop. member for Enni,killen would support him he would move that the words "rectifier or dealer in spirits should be left out." The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said there was no doubt as to the praciice with respect to distillers. As to dealers, he was not prepare& to say that the practice had been uniform one way or the other ; but he understood some gentlemen were cowing across from Ireland on the subject ; be should see them, and, if the hon. member would raise the question again, he would communicate to him the result be had arrived at. Mr. FAGAN said be was quite satisfied. LABOUR IN THE COLONIES. On the reading of the resolution relative to the duty on . Captain LAFFAN said that recently very considerable additions had been made to the duties on sugarin the Bri tish possessions, and at the same time very considerable re nd sions were made to slave-grown sugar. The present addition to the sugar duties was regarded in the colonies generally as an injustice. The Mauritius, the colony with which he was best acquainted, was dependent for its pros perity, and. indeed, for its existence, upon having a full supply of free labour from India. It was at first extremely difficult to persuade single men to come from India with the view of realisirg a competence with which to return to their own country. The agents of the Government in India acting upon, or misinterpreting, instructions re ceived from home, made and enforced a regulation that every Indian leaving India should be accompanied by a woman, which was equivalent to stopping the supply of labour and destroying sugar producing in the colonies. Re presantations were made on the subject to her. Majesty's Government, who proceeded to consider the question, but they were taking so long a time to arrive at a determina tion that while the matter was being settled the colonies were being ruined. The Government wished, as every one did, to create an approximation between the two sexes, but he had no idea that they wished to put a stop to the prospetity of the colony. He hoped, therefore, that the next overland mail would communicate to the Government• agents in India that they had misinterpreted the instruc tions sent them. Mr. J. BALL said that successive Secretaries of State had given their attention to the question alluded to by the hon. member, and it had been clearly seen that effectual measures must be taken in order to procure an approxi • mate proportion between the two sexes in the colonies. In the month of June last, therefore, a letter was written to the governors of several of the more important colonies, expressing an opinion that the time was come when it was necessary to take effectual measures for increasing t 6 female proportion of the population of those colonies ; but that letter contained not one word as to enforcing the re gulations which had been enforced, nor did any of the further letters that were afterwards sent to India on the same subject. It was now the intention of her Majesty's Government to forward to India by the next mail precise instructions as to what their intentions were, which would remove all the misconceptions that had beer. made. Mr. P. URQUHART, as a West India proprietor who had suffered long in silence, trusted that he might be al lowed to protest in a few words against the injustice with which the West India colonies had been treated. They had been told that - in 1554 they would know the worst, and they had made their arrangements in the hope that no further prejudicial measures would be taken against them. In the very first year afterwards extra duties were imposed upon them duties which, in his 'pinion, would m•+ke the whole difference between cultivating their estates with profit or ab indoning them with loss. He had succeeded to a West India estate of from 2,0 1 )01. to 5,0001. a year ; since then he had been 1,5001. out of pocket. He thought that he had a right to complain that the persons whom +he advocates of free trade admitted bad been hardly dealt with in support of the: principle during +he time of peace should be the first t, suffer in time of war. Mr. E. BALL said the hon. gentleinan who had just sat down was one of the advocates of free trade, and was so enamoured of that beautiful theory that be was willing to sacrifice his interest of from 2,0001. to 5,0001. a year, for which he now paid 1.5001. Now, not only had the country , suffered such a loss, but it had also given the greatest sti mulus to the infamous traffic of the slave trade. He wished to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether the in crease of the duty would apply to the sugar grown in Cuba or the Brazil ,, , or to the whole produce? In the former case he should consider the duty an excellent one. Mr. J. G. PHILLIMORE did not rise to criticise the budget, but only to express his deep regret that there should be a necessity for proposing a duty on sugar, which he believed would have *!% pernicious effect on the happiness and comfort of the lower classes. He did Lot mean to deny the existence of the necessity, for he had the greatest confidence in the talents of the right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer; hut he must express his re gret at a necessity which, in a moral point of view, would have most unfavourable results. Mr. WILSON said, with respect to the complaints of the hon. member, who appeared as the advocate of Mauritius, he complained rather of the absence of labour than of the condition of the island. With respect to the sugar colo nies in general, perhaps there was no British interest whi c h exhibited a more marked example of rapid pio gress than the island of Mauritius. The very.compleint of the want of labour was the best evidence of the prosperity which that island enjoyed. It would be satisfactory to the house to know thal in 1844, when Mauritius was in the full enjoyment of a protection amounting almost to an exclusion of foreign sugar, its produc , , was 27,050 tons per annum. In 1848 it had risen to 44,00/ tons, and iu 1854, after the profits had become equalised, it had risen from that amount to 82,000 tons. There was, t herefore, large increase under the influence of free trade and of a competition which increased year by year. Ho, therefore, did not wonder that they complained of the want of la bour in that. island. The Colonial-office would encourage emigration from India in every way consistent with other interests to supply that demand for labour. With regard 'to the whole of the sugar colonies the same was true, but not to the same extent. Taking the British colonies as a whole, he found that in 1844, when they enjoyed a pro- tection amounting almost to an exclusion, the average produce was 204,005 tons; which ha t increased, in the face of increasing competition, to 290,000 tons during the last year. This could not be an evidence of a decaying in terest. If the house wished to see a proof of the prosperity of free trade, it was the proposition of his right hon. Mend, for the increased duty of the present year would only add one shilling a hundredweight to the price to the consumer, as compared with last year. Mr. BLACKBUIL, had the misfortune to be a West India proprietor, and be must complain of 'the alteration of the duties, for although they had been promised they should knaw the duty and must make their arrangements accordingly, the duty had not been the same any two years. A great share of the costs must fall on the producer, and the loss would be at least 1/, a ton. Now, would any gentleman say that •the West India colonies were in a posi tion to lose this 180,0001., which would be the loss thus inflicted on them ? The Chancellor of the Exchequer was taking a surplus of 7,000,0001., which he did not know how he was to spend. He (Mr. Blackburn) therefore thought that it would be better to cut down the estimates th_i levy these taxes on the poorer classes of this country. Mr. HEY WORT El complained of the policy of indirect taxation, because if the demand for manufactures was re striated abroad the means of paying the taxes in this country would be diminished. He agreed that the addi tion of one per cent. to the income tax, which would pro duce the amount, would be preferable to this proposition, and he trusted that .the house would not sanction the ab- surdity of resorting to a principle which had over and over again been condt inned. The report was then received. THE NEWSPAPER STAMP BILL. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that the house do go into committee on this bill. Mr. COWAN said it would perhaps be most convenient to the house if be should at this stage state the nature of the proposition of which he had given notice. He was un willing to sacrifice any amount of revenue in times like the present, when all the resources of the country ought to be hush mded. He owned the difficulty of making the change, but he had supported the seconc reading in hopes that the revenue would not suffer, orat least not materially. The house would not be surprised that he had looked over the various acts whichlrom time to time had regulated the newspaper stamps. There appeared an animus in all these acts, that the more newspapers were restricted the ,better, and that with regard to dimensions they should by restricted to the smallest posiib'e size. Previous to 1825 no newspaper could legally exceed 22 inches by 32, a size considerably smaller than the present evening papers. At that time the weight appeared to barely exceed 1 oz, whilst the stamp duty was 4d., less 20 per cent. It appeared to him that, in 1836, the Government of that time had no idea what would be the result of the introduction of steam printing machines and railways in bringing on the present fix which they were in. There was no reason why the law of 1836 should have been accompanied with such an endless quantity of restrictions as to stamps, weight, and size. The effect of that law was to throw on the Post-office an enor mous quantity of work which it could not have sustained without the railways. He thought this was a fitting op portunity to consider whether the postage laws should not be so altered as to make the carriage remunerative at lower rates. The proposition of which he had given notice provided for the conveyance through the Post-office not only of newspapers but of all printed matter. The rates proposed were one halfpenny for each transmission for every t o ounces, a penny for four ounces, and so on, at such rates as would remunerate. the Post-office. He thought the pro position of Government would press hardly on many per sons, especially the proprietors of country newspapers who might wish to sell their papers at one penny, and who would then have to pay 100 per cent. for transmission through the post. He did not wish to press this proposi tion unduly, but he trusted that Government would give it every favourable consideration. Mr. BARROW hoped the Government would also take into their consideration the propriety of reducing the stamp upon newspapers to a halfpenny. The house then went into committee. Clause t was agreed to without discussion. On cause 2. Mr. COLLIER said he should propose that instead of a stamp of a penny, which was imposed by this clause, the stamp should be a halfpenny, anti that a halfpenny stamp should be imposed for each transmission through the post. He did not put this proposition forward entirely upon financial grounds ; he proposed it upon higher grounds than thosa, viz , educational grounds. It was of the highest possible importance that newspapers of the best c l ass should be circulated as freely as possible. Taxes for the transmission of knowledge ,were taxes on knowledge, and, therefore, he expected to receive the support of those hou. gentlemen wha had been so long agitating for the re peal of all taxes on knowledge. There was another reason for this proposal. At present the London newspapers were on a footing with provincial papers. They circulated throughout the country upon th e same terms as the proviu papers ; but, if the bill pas se d as it now stood, a low provincial papers would spr i ng up, which, •to some eccxliaatslesnotfi wonld be nothing less than. piratical publications, against the London press. They ell knew the great expense at which the London daily papers were conducted—the important and early, ntellizence which they gave, and the high literary character of their leading articles. - Novi it appored to him to kv of tki. to most =moa n that they should encourage the circulation of such papers ; but, ac cording to Rowland Hill if a penny sta.wp were. imposed upon the transmission of newspapers,.not more than half the present number would be circulated throughout the country. Suppose, however, that a less duty were imposed, viz., a halfpenny, it was just possible that the circulation would by no means be diminished to the same extent ; on the contrary, he folind, according te the best calcula tions, that a great increase in the number of , papers circu lated would be the result, but, viewing the question in a financial point of view ' he very much doubted whether the rosteoffice would be able to compete with the railway com panies if the stamp were retained at a penny. He was told, indeed, that at present seven impressions of a daily paper were conveyed to Derby for a penny, while sheets of the Leeds Mercury, containing some 70 or 80 pages, were con veyed 32 miles froth Leeds for a penny. Now, if a penny duty ware imposed on the transmission by post, he appre hended the railways would defeat the Post-o.lice, whereas if the duty were only a halfpenny, the railways would have no temptation fer defrauding the revenue. He should, therefore, propose to alter the clause with the view of providing that for a halfpenny stamp each newspaper should be entitled to the privilege of one transmission by po 4., and to one other transmission for every additional SG ',nip. Mr. COWAN concurred most cerdielly in the proposed alteration, and he should be glad if the Government would take it into their serious consideration. Lord STANLEY said there were two questions involved in the amendment. One was the question of whether the charge for sending a newspaper through the post should be a penny or a halfpenny; the other was whether the postal charge, whatever it might be, should send a news paper through the post once or seveeil times. Now, as to the latter question of the retrans:nis4on, he apprehended that it could not be sustained upon abstract principles, and if they were dealine with the question de novo, or for the first time, he should have to hesitation in pronouncing against the right of retransmission. But they had to deal with interests which bad grown up under the existing law; and if they were to do away with the right at once and imme diately, without any previous notice, it would be inflicting great injustice upon existing interests. (Hear, hear.) As to the question of whether the postal charge should be a penny or a halfpenny, that was more a matter for the con sideration of the postal department of the Executive Go vernment than the house. All that the house could do was to lay down the principle that the Government ought not to attempt to make profit for the revenue out of the carriage of newspapers, but on the other hand newspaper proprietors had no right to ask that Govern ment should carry their productions at less than cost price. It ought to be so equally arranged, if it' were possible to do so, that neither the revenue should gain on the one band nor the newspapers on the other, and, acting upon th it pricciple, he was told that a halfpenny would not be sufficient to cover the actual cost of transmission. One word upon the question of competition, which had been urged as a reason in favour of the proposal. It should not be forgotten that the change to be made by this bill would produce an enormous increase in the numberof newspapers, and that increase would throw a great additional burden upon the labours of the Post-office. Indeed the mere an iicipation of the change bad already caused considerable inconvenience to many local posts, and he did not know whether it ought to be an object with the Legislature to prevent newspapers being carried by private hands. Pos sibly the reduction of the stamp might have the effect of increasing the revenue ; but, on the other hand, they Would have to set against that gain the fact that the transmission of letters would be delayed by this adding to the labours of the Post -office. (Hear.) However, this was a question for the Executive to decide; but as he did not think the halfpenny would be remunerative,' he should support the penny as it now stands. (Hear.) For the present he was also prepared to continue the privilege of retransmission ; but at the same time he could net conceal from himself that sooner or later it would have to be done away with. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER begg ed leave to call att e nti on t o th e or igin of the bill no w afore the house. The bill originated in the difficulty which had arisen in enforcing the compulsory stamp. It was found that the law was ambiguous, and a resolution was passed by the house last year condemnatory of the compulsory stamp, without in any way, however, noticing or recognising a re luction in the stamp. Accordingly a bill wac introduced by his predecessor in office to remove the compulsion of the stamp, without in any way affecting, the price; the bill now - on the table and under the consideration of the com mittee was founded upon identically the same principle; it was limited to the removal of the difficulty which had arisen in the enforcement of the stamp upon all newspapers. o i s n ed int to ro m du a c k i e ng no th ot e h bill was to The correct bj r alte ration in the law, and newspapers of a certain size would eet of that the evi l G ; ovtehrenym proposed mail have the privilege of transmission and retransmission through the post for a penny stamp. The great objection taken to the measure on the second reading was simply that it would endanger a large aineant of revenue at a time when the expendititre of the country exceeded its income ; it was shown, however, that the loss, though it was consi derable, wo uld be proiided in the financial schemes of the year, and in the statement which he had the honour to make on Friday an estimate was made, allowing for the leficiency in cunsequence of this change in the law. Since the second reatling, however, a further question had been raised as to the reduotion of the penny stamp to a _half penny ; and it had been contended that this reduction would not certainly lead to a diminution, but it would maintain the revenue if it did not even increase it. Atthe Aatne time, those who made that calculation founded it on nos uncertain data, and Government were not pre pared to run the risk which the proposed change would involve. But the hon.gentleman who proposed this amend ment had involved himself in the difficulty which imme ,tiately arose upon the change. He proposed to retain the impressed stamp, and to introduce a postage stamp; but if they retained the impressed stamp it would be difficult to prevent retransmission, without imposing upon the' l'oAt-office the trouble and labour of_ da..clui,-,tho stamp, while, on the other hand, - ir had recourse only to a postage stamp, some limit would have to be placed upan the weight it,shou!d carry. The bill now under discu3ston made no reference to weight ; it merely liMited the stamp to a newspaper of the size now allowed by law, and since the bill was introduced with a specific object, ho was not prepared to fu adopt r i erl a c im na i n m u o u n i o d n m i e n n amendment he which , n v u o e . ul. I most likely proiu , o a t Mr. M. MILNES insisted that the retransmission of the London daily newspapers, containing as they did so much matter of educational importance, should be encouraged by all means. There was a law in the United States placing differential duty upon th e p os t age o f a newspapers within certain limits, and the eff ec t o f th a t law had been to pre- vent the transmission over the United States of newspapers londucted with great ability and at great expense, and to extend the production of smaller and less carefully conductel newspapers. The intellectual character of the London daily press could hardly be overrated ; it was; in fact, the production of the intellectual power of the and it was of the utmost importance to the country that nothing should be done to impede or restrict its circulation. He believed the practical difficulties of this case had been much overstated, for he did not see why newspaper could not h a ma d e a passing toll. He did not believe retransmission - wou ld t a k e p l a ce, except where Where was sufficient inter es t t o pro d uc e a large demand ; the inferior publication would not be retransmitted—the superior one would. Mr. GLADSTONE agreed with the noble lord the mem- ;sr for Lynn that the question of retransmission must be [salt with within certain limits and upon grounds which were already established. The privilege of retransmission had reference to the fixed habits of the -community, and to part with it suddenly would be an inconvenience; but the hon. gentleman who had just sat down was so much ena moured with retransmission that he strongly insisted upon its merits. He proposed to give the London newspaper, in some shape or other, an extraordinary right, which smacked very much of their old friend Protection—(a . . laugh)—but he, for one, thought the superior article ought to stand upon its own merits. (Hear.) But if the hon. ontleman was so much in favour of retransmission, he ought upon that very ground not to vote for the amend ment, but to support the bill as it stood, because the amend ment viitually proposed to abolish the privilege of retrans mission, while the bill of th e Ch ance ll or o f the Exchequer proposed to retain it. (Fleur.) With respect to the ques tion of price, he agreed with the noble lord _the member for Lynn that it ought to rest entirely with the Executive to determiue it; but, said the hon. member who last addressed them, "You have f or e d u cational purposes con sented to a diminution of the tax, and it'is no very great matter if yon consent to a further diminution." But that was not the question before the house. True, it t 'r erh thisagreed s all e o u n ree ef handsreventuhea? but o theprofit question sh ould expected w b a e snotw he. a lighter or a h ea vier tax upon th e those who did not read newsp a p ers f or th e sa k e o f th a t por pers, Lion of the community pa but whether they should tax who did. If they did what th e rtfoaters theyaamendment anmi ssi proposed, onoshouldf lneyw ' it would be practically subsidising the transmission of newspapers at the expense of the State, principle; but i n hi s op i n i on i t was might not claim such a p r i v il ege j ust as well as newspapers ; but the real question to be determi ne d tOlitaiellhy was un unnecessary.. bad sar in lit era ture at large y..11e knew no reason in the wor ld w h y uddertake the transmission of newspap ers without was, what was the lowest charge at whi c h th e S tate could i incur ring loss. Of course, between large towns newspapers could be transmitted in parcels by railway cheaper than by were their at own convenience; to they arrange ments could ; post, but it was not fair to treat this as a question of com petition between the Pose - office and private co m p an i es . t' r reject or transmit, just as they pleased but it was qui t e different with the Post - office, because it had no a lt ernat i ve ivat e as but to carry for everybody at a fixed scale of c h arge. The consequence would be then, if the am en d ment were adopted, have to z prryerferm n ewspapers in bulk, the wo rs t an d while .most unprofitable part of the transmission s erv i ce. Now, could the Post-office undertake for a halfpenny to perf o r m the most difficult and the most unprofitabl e portion of the the that p() s t t h e e ffice rail w ays would whoauvl transport, such as carrying newspapers to the greatest dis tance or into remote and unfrequented quarters? That was a question very 'Duch for the Government themselves to determine, but his conviction was that the service could not be performed for ii. halfpenny. It was easy to say that the loss would be small between a halfpenny and the cost of transport, which might be three farthings ; but the loss became no small matter when they came to multiply the farthing by ninety millions, or by the still larger figures which an iticrerved number of newspapers must • necessarily occasion. He had been told that the ch arge by the early trains to Liverpool and Manchester was so high that it would not pay to send down the advertising sheet of the Times, and that it was actually retained in London when the newspaper sheet was sent down, and forwarded by the Post-office train at ten o ' c l oc k. H e b elieved the charge i provincial towns for th e morn i ng delivery was a penny.n It was difficult to get at pr ec i se d a t a on the subject would be now safe to adopt the' proposition of the hon. and learned tl It would be highly un d es i ra bl e t o take a step which genernan. they coul I not retrace, for if they once adopted the they would nev er b e a bl e to correct the error. pro l r t ositi v r be better far th e G overnment to look into the matter, 7°ll C i l to ascertain 'whether they could carry printed matter an at a lower rate than a penny. If they could d 0 so, well and good : but h e cons id ere d i t would be unfair t . run the risk of burdening the State with a heavy charge for a purpose which was not legitimate. ' (Hear.) , Mr. BARROW believed that in America newspapers wore conveyed 3,000 miles for one cent, and ho took it for granted that the Government of that country would not carry on a business of that kind at a lo ss. H o believed • charge made f or carry i ng newspapers at the present per ton. Th e Ch ancellor of the Exchequer present was 31. per ton. The Chancellor of the Exchequer seeme dwa to i s a -3 il. gine that s ome di ff i culty would arise in the second mtrans mission of s t amped newspapers. Now the objection of the right bon. gentleman might be obviated by writing thedireo tion upon the stamp. The impression havin g been. obli- - aerated' in the first instance, the affiiiiig of a oud stamp would be a very easy process, and that second stamp might be again obliterated if a third transmission - should be ne cessary. lir. M. GIBSON said ishe . proposition 'of. the b on . and 41411Vd mamba fou Plyrouth mit* p0r..P214 le` than this—to carry a periodical publication of any , size and weight, whet her an ounce or a pound, for a halfpenny. Mr. BARROW remarked that a limit was provided as to size. Mr. M. GIBSON observed that the hon. and learned member had omitted all consideration of the limit in his amendment. Mr. COLLIER said that would be a matter for future consideration. Mr. M. GIBSON said the hon. and learned member proposed to carry a periodical publication for a halfpenny, but a pamphlet would have to pay letter weight for trans mission by post. Now suppose he should find himself slandered in a periodical publication, that publication might be transmitted throughout the country for a half penny ; but his reply in an occasional publication would be charged 3d. or 41. Before consenting to a proposition for the transmission of periodical publications he should like to know wheth er occas i ona l pu bli ca ti ons Of the same weight were to be transmitted at the same rate of postage. (Hear, hear) Pamphlets bad been recently published in defence of the characters of Lord Raglan and Sir John Burgoyne. The attacks made upon those gallant officers were circulated without any charge beyond that of the ori ginal newspaper stamp of a peony, whilst the answers to those attacks would be subject to the letter weight postage. That being the case,_ he (lid not think Lord Raglan likely to rise superior to w hat the noble lord the member for the city of London had characterised as the slanders of the ribald press. (Hear, hear.) He objected to the pro position of the honourable and learned member for Plymouth, because it would confer a privilege on a par ticular class of publications, and he was confident it would not bo asked for by some of the parties promoting it, if they thonglit it would be extended to all. Under these circumstances, and knowing that the postage charge could be reduced by a Treasury order, he ditl not feel it neces sary to support the amendment. (Hear, hear.) Mr. PHILIPPS thought it would be most desirable to ascertain the fair net revenue of the Post-office before making any hazardous ex?eriments in the way of reduc tion. (Hear, hear.) The amendment was then withdrawn, and the clause was agreed to, with some verbal amendments. Clause 3, providing that periodical publications entitled to free transmission by post shall be printed under certain conditions anti limitations was also agreed to. On clause 4, providing that periodical publications may be registered at the Inland Revenue-office in the same manner as newspapers are now required to be, Mr. WHITESIDE said that, according to the provisions of the hill, newspapers having a stamp must be registered and give security, but it was optional to the parties to re gister or not, just as they might think fit. He could not understand the precise object in view. He wished to know why stamped newspapers were to be subjected to registra tion under the 6th and 7th William IV., when unstamped newspapers were not liable to such registration ? Now, he could not conceive any reasonable ground why a journal having a stamp should be compelled to register, when a penny paper might go on libelling everybody, leaving the injured parties to find out the libeller in the best way they could. He thought it would be much better to compel all parties to register alike. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it was per fectly competentto the committee to make the alteration sug gested by the hon. and learned gentleman, but if they did so the registration must be enforced by penalties. Now the bill was so drawn as to avoid all impositions of that kind. The operation of the clauses would depend upon that receipt of stamps. The reason why the bill had been drawn in this manner was, that every periodical, publication, and news paper enjoying a circulation to any extent would for its own purposes and the convenience of its customers apply a stamp to a• portion of its circulation, and would thus bring itself within the operation of the clauses. He believed the bill, as it now stood, would practically, without the enact ment of penalties, enforce a system of registration and se curities which was the greatest safeguard against libels on private character. The Government, however, did not wish to propose any compulsory clauses. (Hear.) Mr. WHITESIDE said that, supposing his suggestion should be agreed to, he was prepared to propose a clause compelling unstamped papers to register under a penalty of 201. Mr. G. BUTT said that one protection afforded by regis tration was, that when a party was libelled he might go at once to the piper office and ascertain the names of the pro. prietors against whom to bring his action. Another pro tection was the security for damages in cases of libel. The right hon. gentleman seemed to imagine that newspapers of a respectable character would avail themselves of the postal regulation , and, therefore, come within the opera tion of th law requiring registration and complete security. But if the proprietors of a newspaper of a different charac ter should find it worth their while to publish a cheap paper in a large town, they might avoid the postal regula flop and leave the purchasers of the newspaper to use the penny stamp, and the very protection which it was th e object of the legislature to give would be taken away. The CHANCELLOR Of the EXCHEQUER said the act to which the hon. and learned gentleman referred applied only to newspapers. It did not extend to all Periodicals. Mr. BUTT remarked that he had confined his attention to newspapers. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the , bill applied to all periodical publications printed at pe riods of less than thirty-one days. If the hon. gentleman wished to make it compulsory on all periodicals to go through the process of registration and securities he would extend those regulations to many publications which were not comprised within the &jut of the original act, and which were sent off in monthly parcels. He did not ima gine that such publications would avail themselves of the postage. It would be hard to bring them under the ope ration of. a law which was never intended for them. By limiting the registration and securities to those publica tions which voluntarily availed themselves of the postal privilege, the hill would apply to all newspapers with a circulation of any importance, and exempt those to which the original registration was not intended to apply. Mr. BUTT sail that at present all newspapers must be registered and give security to answer for libels; but the effect or tbo present bill would be to enable. partioa to pub lish newspapers without availing themselves of the postal regulations, and then they would not be under the neces sity of registering and•finding security. Lord STANLEY thought no hardship would be in flicted upon any one if the registration should be made compulsory, and facilities would be given to injured par tins in obtaining re , lress. (Liear.) . , Mr. WHI'L'E ;IDE proposed the amendment, the object of which was to make the clause compulsory. ..Mr. M. GIBSON of to the amendment, and con tended that it would be impossible to enforce a general re gistration throughout the country without some new ma chinery of a vexatious and troublesome character. The re gistration clause of the present act was entirely neglected, and if an attempt were ma le 'o enforce the provision of the clause which required newspapers to t register, be Board of Inland Revenue would have very little time to attend to anything else. He thought means ought to be afforded of having the authorship of every article, and bringing it home to some responsible party ; and that means now existed, for the printer was compelled to attach his name n to every newspaper, and to keep a record f h employers, and produce it when required to do so by the order of any judge. Mr. WFIITESIDE said there would be no difficulty in carrying out the system of registration. Parties in the country would not be under the necessity of coming up to London, for there were commissioners in various parts of the country, by whom the registration might be made. It was a mistake to supp-tse th a t the present bill would give parties a sufficient protection. Mr. WARNER conceived that there was something very rotten in the present system of registration, and that it required some amendment. He thought parties might be easily compelled to register by providing that all un registered papers should be stopped at the Post-office. Mr. GLADSTONE said that he should oppose both the proposition of the Chancellor of the Exchequer and that of the hon. and learned gentleman opposite. The proposi tion of the hon. and learned gentleman was consistent and bad regard to uniformity and regularity of principle, but what security would it give which was not at present pro vided by the requirement that the name of the printer should he upon every publication? It lives true that (lid not give the name of the writer, but neither (lid the registration. The adoption of this proposition would impose upon per sons to whom it applied unnecessary trouble and vexation, and he should therefore say " No' to it. He must also say " No" to the clause, because it appeared to him to put the law upon a footing which was irrational and inconsistent. The law as it stood, and which his right hon, friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer proposed to abandon, was intelligible ; but the effect of the proposed change, as ex plained by hi s right hon, friend himself, would be to secure the registration of respectable periodicals, but to allow such as were not respectable to escape. That was to say, it would catch those which there was no necessity for catching, and would not catch those which ought to be caught. The objection to the present law was that under it persons who published what were not really newspapers made false declarations in order to obtain postal privileges, and this his right hon. friend proposed to adopt. The proposition included in one sense too little and in another too much, and he should therefore vote against it. Mr. DISRAELI thought that the amendment of his hon. and learned friend (Mr. Whiteside) was both rational and consistent. The press in this country enjoyed great liberty and great power, and he thought the house had a right to exact from it a corresponding responsibility. The system of registration proposed by his lion, and learned friend to be general in its application was acbompanied by no vexatious considerations. All he proposed was, that society should be made aware who was responsible for the opinions expressed on public questions, or the criticisms offered on public conduct. The right hon. gentleman (Mr. Gladstone) had said that society had the means of re dress, which no one questioned it ought to possess, by the law as it at present stood. But what redress would there be in a case in which the name of some man of straw or of some imaginary person had been affixed to a placard or pamphlet, which might, nevertheless, at a critical period of public affairs, have exercised a very important influence upon their course. As the law now stow, you had regis tered the name of the proprietor of the journal ; it was not the name of a man of straw, but of a person of so much consequence, and of such corporeal station, as to ensure the obtaining of the redress to which all society said that a person who had been injured was entitled. Therefore he maintained that the reply of the right honourable gentleman was not a sufficient answer to the proposition' of his honourable and learned friend. The honourable and learned gentleman had shown that there would be no great difficulties in enforcing the principle of the proposition, nor would its enforcement occasion much inconvenience to those to whom it applied, and he, there fore, hoped that the committee would agree to this amend ment. Mr. H. DRUMMOND said that the liberty of the press in this country was the liberty of a certain number of per sons to slander anonymously and whenever they pleased, and against whom you had no redress. (Hear.) It was the lih•rty of anonymous libellers, and the slavery of the rest of the community. The only way to meet this evi l l was to prohibit any person writing anything, no matter whether whether periodical or otherwise, without affixing toi h name. (Hear.) No honest man was ashamed of thee _,in sen timents he expressed. (Hear.) There was more . l this country than in any other about a love of fair play, and of a good stand-up fight; but what s tan ( d liar n e pfi .) ght T w ne a y s there with all those anonymous libellers , lived, and they know it very wall, in ev il-doers, but were a e f e ar of moral assas sination. They longed to punish th afraid to say so ; and the onlyto prevent any one pu . b(i s hi ngith ything without way to do it . was such a prohibi tion in enforcing . . ithout putting his name to n of the it. They found no difficulty o that they could tion in France,as to suppose and he had not so poor an opium th• country. As it was, legal advisers of fthenfoTiTga it . in is 1 ..w 'note findlived meansun d , r o a ig e t:T of moral struggle, and it must be put an end The CHANCELLOR that there ware the new definition o pinion which GELLOR or th® EXCHEQUER admitted difficulties in adapting the existing - law to of periodical publications. After the he had heard expressed, he would, with the permission of the committee, postpone the clauses relating to reg istration and sureties, and endeavour t o a lt er th em so that they slioalcl ripply to all newspapers, but to news men alimes That Tvald ntonfitato the vs of the wa rd "newspaper," which it had been sought to avoid, but of course a legal construction could be put upon the word. Mr. MILNER GIBSON hoped that in this year 1855 it would not be thought necessary for the safety of Our insti tutions or of priv a te character t o put a previous 'restraint upon the expression of opinion upon paper. If it were, however, there was no need for any new enactment, but only to enforce the existing law under which not only every newspaper but every periodical and every pamphlet was liable to securities. He held in his hand the act passed by Lord Castlereagh, and called one of the six acts, which enacted that no person should after thirty days from the date of its passing " print or publish for sale any news paper or any pamphlet "—let members of the house who wrote pamphlets but never gave securities mark that— " or other paper containing any public news, intelligence, or occurrences, or any remarks or observations thereon, or upon any matter in Church or State which shall not ex ceed two sheets (that was 714 square inches), or which shall be published for sale at a less price than sixpence, until he or she shall have entered intorecognisances before a baron of the Exchequer in England, and found two suf ficient securities that they will be answerable for any pe nalties that may be incurred for an y bl asphemous or sedi tious libel," which responsibility h a d b y au act passed in the reign of William IV. been extended to private libel. If they thought securities necessary, why did they not en= force this 60th Goo. 111., c. 9? There was no occasion to re-enact any part of that act, as they were now asked to do. It had not been repealed. It was still law, and there fore he appealed to theright hon. gentleman not to ask the house to re-enact this act, which was still in force ; but, if he believed these securities were necessary, to do his duty as a minister of She Crown and enforce this 60th Geo. 111. c. 9, and, above all, to take care that the members of the Government did not themselves violate it. There never was a more flagrant violation of the law than Lord J. Russell's letter to the Bishop of Durham. (Hear, hear, and a laugh.) There was a pamphlet commenting upon matters in Church and State, sold in groat numbers and for a very small price, in regard to which his lordship had entered into no securities, which rendered the publisher liable under the 60th Geo. 111., c. 9, to " forfeit for every such offence the sum of 2C1." How large estrus did the noble lord at this moment owe to the Queen ? a debt which hehad 'incurred by violating a law which it was his duty to en force, and which the Cabinet of which he was a member was now calling upon the house to re-enact. There was not the slightest necessity for such re-enactment. What was wanted was that Ministers should do their duty and enforce the law, and not come to that house with a claptrap to ask it to agree to clauses which they had not the remotest in tention of enforcing, and which they only proposed that they might say to the world, "At any rate we have re tained something; we have got securities, and there will be no blasphemy or sedition." The. extraordinary thing was that the Government of a few weeks ago—he did not know whether the present Government was the same one, but it looked very like it—agreed to abolish these securi ties. The present First Minister of the Crown was a mem ber of that Cabinet, and must, there're, he presumed, have given his assent to the proposition for their abolition. He must say a word upon the absurdity of making the giving of securities contingent upon going through the post. The act of Geo. 111., enacting securities, was ra tional, but this plan was a ridiculous mode of carrying out an absurd policy. (Hear.) Let them abolish these secu rities, because they were not consistent with the principles of a free press. Let them trust to the power of the COM.. mon law to put down the libeller. There were penalties that could be enforced, and every man had a right, whe ther he was wealthy or poor, to express his opinion upon paper, How , could a poor man express his opinion upon public affairs if he must enter into a bond for 4001. or make a declaration that he was worth 400/.. after all his debts were paid, and, in addition to that, must obtain two wealthy securities ! He hoped and trusted that, professing a desire for a just measure towards all classes of the com munity, and to uphold the knowledge and freedom of the press, they would not carry out such a class measure, or say that none but the wealthy and upper classes of this country should be at liberty to publish periodical publics tions, newspapers, or pamphlets. Mr. F. SCOTT believed that the press would best consult its own liberty and dignity if it would encourage a registi a tion of the names of the persons who were really responsible for what was published in the jouinals. Notning was more objectionable than that a person should be brought forward as liable for a publication who really should not be made liable for it, and if the clause was postponed, he trusted the right hon. gentleman would make it effectual towards bringing forward the persons really responsible. Sir F. THESIGER understood the Chancellor of the Exchequer to say he considered there was an important matter requiring consideration with regard to the clause, and that it was desirable that it should be postponed, to afford his right hon. friend an opportunity of considering whether he could frame the clause in such a way as would meet the approbation of the house. It was desirable they should see the clause the Government would present for their consideration, and he thought the discussion that had taken place was very unnecessary. He trusted the Chancellor of the Exchequer would pass on to the other clauses of the bill. The clause was postponed, and the amendment was with drawn. Clauses 5,6, 7, 8 were also postponed. Clauses 9, 10, 11, 12, and 13, with some verbal amend ments' were agreed to. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY begged to ask the right hon. gentleman whether he had calculated what the revenue would be if this bill should become h..w ? The present re venue was calculated at about 470,0001, but it was deli. ' rable to know what the revenue would be after the deduc tion of expenses. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that all estimates with regard to the produce of the newspaper stamp, when instead 61 being compulsory it was volun tary, were necessarily conjectural and uncertain, but, ac cording to the estimate that had been made, the produce would be 200, 001. Mr. DISRiELI—There was notice given by the Govern ment of a clause on a most important subject, namely, the copyright or ....v.ps.pers, hut we have had no statement from the Chancellor of the Exchequer on this point. Twins to whether they intend to proceed with the proposition. The CHANCELLOR of the EXUIIEQUER—I have the clause with me, and if it bo the wish-of the committee I am now prepared to move it. I thought, : however, that as some of the clauses have been postponed, it might not now be convenient to propose a new clause. Air. BARROW remarked that poe-or was proposed to • be given by this clause for the recovery of penalties in a ( summary manner, involving ono of the most difficult ques tions that ever came before a court of justice. He thought the practice of printing a clause in this Manner to be de livered to members after they came into the house, v.i,Jl - an opportunity being afforded to thu public at large of seeing it, was inconvenient, and he trusted the Chancellor of the Exchequer would not tarnish his fair fame by adopt ing a practice that was unfair to the public - at - largo.' - The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it was quite true the clause did contain a penalty, but that pe nalty was not to be recovered by the Attorney-General, but by the proprietor of a newspaper for the piracy of any matter contained in his newspaper, and that was a matter for the committee hereafter to consider. - He considered that the practice adopted by him was of constant occur rence in the house, and that there was nothing unusual, unprecedented, or exceptional in it. He had given notice of the clause three or four days ago • hon. members h a d au opportunity to consider it, and it had also received circu lation - amongst the public. , .._ . _._ ____. Mr. BARROW replied that he did not receive the clause with his votes, and he did not know any member who had so received it. Mr. BRIGHT wished to know from the right hon. gentleman when he intended to go into committee again on this bill? There were some hundred persons in a state of agony with regard to the bill. (A. laugh.) The pro prietors of newspapers did not know where they would be next week, and there were other newspapers struggling into life. Great expenses were incurred, and a most im portant branch of industry would be paralysed until this bill should be disposed of. (Hear, hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER -1" will fix it for Monday next. Mr. BRIGHT—Why not Friday? The Chancellor of the Exchequer did not reply, and it was accordingly understood that the bill was fixed for Monday. The Chairman was ordered to report progress and get. leave to sit again ; and the house resumed. BANK R,UPTCY (IRELAND) BILL. Mr. CAIRNS moved for and obtained leave to intro duce a bill to amend and consolidate the laws relating to bankruptcy in Ireland. ABSCONDING DEBTORS (IRELAND) BILL. Mr. CAIRNS obtained leave to bring in a bill to facili tate the more speedy arrest of absconding debtors in Ireland. THE SEBASTOPOL COMMITTEE. Mr. ROEBUCK said that his name appeared on the paper appended to a notice that the hon. member for the county of Limerick (Mr. De Vere) be added to the army before Sebastopol committee. On consultation, however, with the committee the result was, that they wished him to state to the house, as a conclusion to which they had unanimously come, that in their opinion it would be better if no further addition were made to the committee. (Oh, oh, and laughter on the Opposition benches.) He really could not see what there was in that announcement to elieit the laughter of hon. gentlemen opposite. (Oh, oh.) He could take upon himself to state that the members of the committee had been extremely sedulous in their attention to business, having only on one occasion failed to make a committee. As yet there had been no difference of opinion amongst them, and they regarded the discussions which had taken place in that house as tending to injure them in their judicial capacity before the country. They thought that they could best conduct the inquiry without any fur- ther addition to their numbers, while, at the same time, they would advantage the public service by putting an end to discussions that interfered with the discharge of their duties. He could only add, that he had mentioned the decision of the committee to the noble lord at the head of the Government, and he had acceied to their views; it was, therefore, not his intention to propose ony one to fill the vacant place on the committee. (Oh, oh, and laughter.) Mr. BENTINCK was not surprised, after the discussion of a former evening, that the hon. and learned gentleman had thought proper to withdraw his motion. With all respect, however, for the opinion of the committee, as jus t enunciated by the hon. gentleman, he must say he regrette d ew i exceedingly that it was not in his power to coißci _, _t_h it. (Loud cries of Bear, hear, from the toolxtrm benches.) In making that remark, ha be gge d, to of i t m h p e u co gu m n m ei i t t h t e e r e. collzti t with the concurrence he hee intended o o nduet occasion contended—and contended Int h t house —that vhe l v y .n n o or o in n d a ivi f t o lu n a n l e l y r wore being discussed before considering the subjects which of opinion of at least a large ble that at least one the committee, it was indispeensa. _ , f ( I with th minority in t a e nal , al rofession ht cross closelyand ffi -examine —(hear, hear) who might of the witnesses necessarily pro member of it should be connec . oiently a great number any of whom, trying would be bent on trying 3 0 duced before the committee- - m any to save their own reputatio n, conceal the truth. Now, he would def y even the acuteness of the hon. and learned gentleman himself to extract the truth from an unwilling witness of that description. li e could only express his surprise that the independent ad vocate of investigation into abuses and maladministrati on of affairs at the seat of war should have though t it neces sary to refer upon all occasions of doubt for :ice to the however,i repudiated the with the noble lord at the head of the Government. the Opposition benches.) He, pi ion of the committee principle laid down by the hon. for he contended that the noroi n nt• learned ought to rest entirely gentleman ; ought not to be dependent upon arras se of Commons, and the Speaker's chair. (Hea arrangements made behind corner work was most nn seer, I ear.) All such hole-and like that before the committ ee, n Y' in reference to a subject a large portion of the co • . (Hear, hear.) Hitherto, to the transport service- mmittee's inquiries had reference terially strength da consideration that very ma shoild be appoin teden his demand that a naval officer to serve • Usti though the on it. . (Hear, hear.)- And; justified in 'honourable gentleman might feel name of the hen. member withdrawing from further consideration the n. member for the county of Limerick, 49, could sot *ow 0 0 doteg th, oat la Alamo to YFWp ‘T) -- r3rWP ; f›. 4, ,• -4 1 •:;„ -.eiverl4oo 1 ~r^~. ,s! ' • the name submitted by him, as there_ - wee no a betwee n the two cases. e ln conclresinc e he NO to suggest for the consideration of theflsoblee -lord naval perseveranceprefees the h ea d o f the Government, whether by this systematic preventing h te m eo m a b i o o n n r h op b t i e o s i p e ng a r' added in to mitteemeheer of the would not lead to a general conviction that theobject of the Go vHe e r nm er begged nt w t as, s r„, n o t s o promote, that the nameb ut to of s e tifte ap in t. ye a st i is e t te io n n e . be added to the committee. ' (Opposition cheers.) Mr. MACARTNEY seconded the motion • Lord SEYMOUR; ars a member of the c * ommittee, de fended the determination which they had comeeto, on the ground that any new member would be precluded from taking part in the final decision of the committee, which must shortly be given, who bad not heard or need through all the - evidence—which was of th e most voluminous de -scription. The'result of nominating an additional mem ber might be that they world run' the risk of protracting indefinitely an inquiry which it was moat desirable to ter. minate shortly. Mr. LIDDELL agreed with the noble lord that the in quiry ought to be brought to a close as speedily as possible. However, thegreat reason adduced for making no further additions to the committee was that the new. member or members could.not have been expected to have made them selves masters cf all the evidence. Now,be begged tore mind the'honse that that was an argument which might have held quite as good on Friday night, when there was the question of the appointment of the lion. member for Limerick. (Loud cries of hear, on the Opposition benches.) It appeared to him that there had been a sort of under standing, or agreement, between the hon. and independent chairman of the committee, and if the matter came to a division he should give the motion his support. Mr. H. DP.UMMOND said it was not the members of the c ommittee who d es i re d any accession to their body. The hon. member-seemed to consider that the question was one. Solely between the committee and the Go but if Government ; he thought that he (Mr Du d)into the c ommittee with a foregone conclusion, oregone conclusion, in order to frame articles of im each other m an hPh uaent again s t th e G overnment or any , e ad grossly mistaken his man. (A laugh, and hear, hear.) A - tives Imputed Talk of faction, indeed, what could be more factious th • pack, but could not do nit, to say that you intended to for the purpose not of in , a committee that should go in riving at a foregone conclinsirineg into th e t ru th , b ut of ar there was no necessity w _ ar. (Oh, oh.) I n hi s op i n i on committee. h ever for any addition to the Mr. PACKE had the highest possible members of the committee ; but the bon . rect for the Surrey would forgive him for stating on. mom her for East learned chairman of the commu te , that the hon. and -Was the essee to give notice of a motion to appoint an additional - Lord PALMERSTON said that the,member. agreement made with regard to the Way__ fee which the committee had been represented by mi.!' r eat t i ns ne e i n c t of the a total forgetfulness of 'the ordinary and neoessaresimPelreei.d of proceeding in that house. The course pursued' e c ;- hon. and learned friend was the course wh ic h b ad by his variably adopted in such cases. -As to the-presentee gee,. tion he could only say that his hpn. and learned friend had stated to him this evening that the committee had that morning unanimously come to the decision that they pre. ferred not to have a new , member added.; and aafar as he (Lord Palmerston) was concerned, it was a matter of per fect indifference whether a member was . added or not. I•Sr. oreover, if a member were added, he had not the slightest objection to a naval officer being selected by the house for the purpose. Individually, however he felt th a t some deference was due to the opini on o f the committee, which appeared, to be unanimous ; he should, therefore, vote with his hon. and learned friend (Mr. Roebuck), but he could assure the house that it was a matter of total indiffe rence to him whether the motion of the hon. member op posit° was agreed to or not. If Captain Gladstone was appointed, he was certain the hon. and gallant gentleman would discharge his duty to the satisfaction of the country, and that they could not have a fitter person individually or professionally. Mr. DISRAELI agreed with the noble lord in what he said respecting the system which prevailed in this house with regard to the appointment of a select committee ; and when his hon. friend who had made this motion had had a more extended Parliamentary experiencehe was convinced he would acquit the Government, of whatever party it might be formed, of any sinister purpose in the mode they sanctioned of appointing these committees which had been adopted solely for the convenience of the house. The course which he (Mr. Disraeli) had taken in reference to the nomi nation of this committee conclusively showed that there was no desire on that (the opposition) side of the house to make the committee a party committee ; that on the con trary, their greatest desire was to recommend to the house such names only as would render the committee an efficient one, and obtain for it the confidence of the house and the country, and there could be no question now that they were all of them free to take the course with regard to the present vacancy which they fright think best calculated for the public interest. But he begged of the house to hesitate before they allowed any minister or committee to have the power of diminishing the number of persons to whom they delegated the high authority and august functions which were reposed in a committee of that house. It might be in the power of a minister, if he wished, to reduce the num bers of an important committee upon some vital inquiry. He might reduce the numbers of the committee by giving places to its members. (Cheers.) Would he tell them that that was of no importance, and that it was a matter of in difference whether this or that gentleman or no gentleman was appointed to fill a vacant post? A minister of the Crown had no right to use the language which thenoble lord had used. The noble lord ought to feel that the ap pointment of the members of this committee was one of the moat-important events of the session, This session baa not been so memorable that the noble lord ought not to be allowed to say that it wasnot a matter of the slightest itn tortance who were the members of the committee, or whether there were any members of the committee. (Cheers.) The noble lord had spoken with contempt of this committee. (No, no.) Did it not show c o nt em pt t o e say it was a matter perfect indifference to him whether a member were added or not ? (Hear, hear.) The noble lord thought itehe said, an insignificant 'matter-whether the number of the committee were made up or not. Why, the noble lordsmightjust as well say it was an insignificant matter whether the nuu.:ber of the judges of the land was maintained. (Hear; hear.) There was no question w hich the people cf thiscountry had more at heart than the in vestigation now going on, and it was the duty of the house ' to see that the number of tho committee now conducting it should bo 'maintained. He denied that his hon. friend (Mr. Beutinck) had sought to infuse anythin g like party. spirit into the course he now took. Ho had in Pict pro po.ed the name of a, gentleman —not a partisan, but a near relation of ono who, although no longer a Minister, was till responsible td'Parliament and the- country for what had occurred in connection with our army in the East. (Hear, heer.) The hon. and gallant member now proposed to beadded would bring intelligence and ability to bear upon the investigation, and he (Mr. Disraeli) trusted his hon. friend, who had. with so much honourable consistency and perseverance contendedegainst difficulty when he had before brought this question before the house, would triumph in his present motion. (Hear, hear.) Sir G. GREY . denied that his noble friend had treated the inquiry entrusted to. the committee with levity—all his noble friend said was that he was anxious to consult the opinion of the committee, which was that it was not desirable to add a member to the committee in the place of the member who had receded. There was nothing uncon stitutional in the committee arriving at such a conclusion. Mr. WHITE3IDE asked whether it was constitutional to make a member of a committee a placeman before he • had concluded his 'Share in the investigation to which he was a party? (Hear.) So select a member for promotion . in the-Government Was, to say the least, an injurious precedent, and there was no reason why that course could not be applied to four members as well as one. Oa Friday the noble lord, with some reminiscences perhaps of youth ful patriotism, insisted that the member to be supplied to the committee should be an Irishman. Now the noble lord was averse to having a member appointed at all. He (Mr, Whiteside) had heard it stated that this matter had been arranged ; and the noble lord, finding public opinion to be against the course he had taken on Friday night, now said it was not of the least consequence to the Government whether a naval member were appointed or not. (Hear.) He trusted the house would insist on the committee being maintained in its integrity and independence, and that it would affirm the nomination suggested by, his hon. friend. Mr. ROEBUCK thought it due to the noble lord to say that he had nothing whatever to do with the recommenda tion of the committee. The noble lord had not been con sulted by the committee on the matter, and it was the sug gestion of the right bon. member for Droitwich that the opinion of the committee should be communicated to, the noble lord by him (Mr. Roebuck). The him. member for South Northumberland insinuated that he (Mr. Roeback) was in that painful position of having his confidence with drawn from him. He could assure the hon. member for South Northumberland that that - painful position he (Mr. Roebuck) would endeavour to bear. (Laughter.) As far -- as ho was concerned it was a matter of indifference whothe member was that was appointed on the committee. • Mr. MAGUIRE insisted upon the importance of haling the vacancy on the committee filled by• eligible and; in dependent member, a most important porthsd ele, inquiry had yet to be entered upon. remind • Mr. BENTINCK said it was necessary for him to ht forward on the house that from the motion be had b Tat inffueueed by ' this subject, it could not be said that her cue. .. ea ,. any party spirit. (Hear, hear Though _ the stated, yet this beis% lord had ,.,, A house might be as the nob l ebeers/lie" rule should be o bserved-' great exceptional case a different connected with the transport..st great part of the inquiry d he tho i llet it was most service had yet to take place, 9 0 11 000 , e e navy important that a gentleman committee. ) 12 ' • r and the house be appointed on the to wi thdraw , Strangers were then ordered divide, when unwilling to put the was preparing to said that he was Mr. ROEBUCK liv.cig titer.) (Laug house to the trouble of t h e n 11 el then said as the hon, and learned Lord PAL7dERST of the committee had stated that • chairman gentleman the the motion, he (Lord Palmerston), to he had no objectionwoul have no objection. (Loud cries of - for his own . part a . " ri l a ughter.) " hear, hear, that Captain Gladstone b© appointed a,mera• The motion . u smittee, in the room of Mr. h e r of the co J. Ball, was then agree d to. The - nITANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER brought up the following bills, which were read a first time, and or dered tab° read a second time on Thursday The Loan Bill, the Stamp Duties Bill, nex t, 711" Bill, the Spirit Duties Bill, d the Income Tax an the Customs Duties Bill. The other business of the and the house adjourned t t wenty minutes before one. :~~. MEMOIRiI OP THE biography s L A T iC E Interesting Si Il i rj. By --------m"—*. n ß ii l a Gll b T HON. RICHARD LOIC than Ti n h o one who was no less eminent ,in. "We feel aesspo litical_Two world is exciting great - attention. It gives this work will be rece t ived s w a Tt says the theL general ite r ary satisfaction. Gazette, gizsesi in which clear w hich & n s d he ii interesting tool: a narrative of f part,the p a u n b d l l a c even most fair and just view of his life and character." ‘‘Thia biography," observes the J Oat Bull; " beside's the value it possesses as a contribution to the history of a most important period in our national annals, will be read with interest as the, portraiture of a man of personal worth and olno ordinary genius. - [A.DVERTISEMENT..]—HoIIoway's Pills stand pre-emi nent for the Cure of Asthtna.—gr. Griffiths, gardener, of Gyllygynan, Denbighshire, w as afflicted fora numbe r of years with a violent astbniatic cough, causing him many sleepless nights ; in truth, the attacks were so severe at times that he could scarcely keep any f o od' - on `his stomach for .daya toget ler, an d notwithstanding he resorted to various _reputed medicines for. t h e cure o f asthma, yet he obtaine d no b eneficial effect. - At last he tried Holl oway th 'S result:gpills which be Tersetere di n f or a b ou t five of whiCh was a perfect cure, and he now enjoys most excellent health.—Sold by all ven dors of medicine, and at Professor Holloway's establish. menbe, 244, Strand, London, and 80, Maiden-lane, New York. ..."".., deerOeu o f the e t ;rums' d I did ith the en ds . to Jestin° • ( o 'o le 4 to 0 0 4 ; 00i