The Sun. — London, England, 1849-02-23 00:00:00

iiPWIIIMI 3entury bishop on the gree of uported ow the ngland. ngland, But, arriage to valid if the law of ourt is er the I)lished of the ich was . From own to zd with 1 con on it therine Irother. it mar- spensa. by the estrous ranmer highQst As for for it. ) con st the revise Anne t mar- ..._ _ part tOWn° ion oir 1,364 bad hursel un this strictO, flun' fe that handy member of the Commission could put his o the entire report who was not prepared for an alteration of the law, and probably a relaxation. Mr. HENLEY had misunderstood the Honourable and Learned Gentlemen. There was an extraordinary omission in the evidence. Her Majesty's Commissioners were bound to treat the most difficult part of the sub ject. But they had not touched on what would be the eo tdition of the clergy of the Church of England if this law Mr- were rel axe d. That question was touched on by alr. Paterson, by one of the Irish clergy, and by Arch deacon Sinclair. The statement of the clergyman from Ireland was to the effect that many of the clergy would not celebrate such marriages; Archdeacon Sinclair expressed the hope that they would not be complied to celebrate them ; and Mr. Paterson thought the clergy felt con strained by the force of the canon law. He spoke from memory ; but in what position were they going to place the clergy by this Bill ? "Would the Noble Lord sum mon.., Convocation together, to relieve them from t he Obligation s of the canon law ? The Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman had attempted to throw discredit on the canons ; but while he admitted that they had been sanctioned by Cranmer and Parker, he omitted to state that they had in 1603 been ratified by the Convocation and confirmed by the Crown. It was very difficult to l ay how the clergy were to be released from the obliga tions of those canons. He should not at present vote on the general merits of the question. If ever there was t his was artistically got up—he used the word advisedly— is was the case ; and the report partook wholly of that c haracter. Any person reading, to copy the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman's language, one of the earliest paragraphs of the report, would believe that the Pope had to do with the earliest ages of Christianity; nor did the report advert to the fact that the Eastern Church had throughout rejected those marriages, and without dispensation. The report was so carafully drawn that any one reading it would come to the con clusion that those marriages had been dispensed from the beginning. He objected on social as well as other grounds to the proposed measure. The report described the proposed alteration as contrary to the sense only of the clergy in Scotland, though it was stated in the evi dence that the same feeling extended to the whole people of Scotland. The report was not a fair exponent of the evidence. In Ireland these marriages were regarded with abhorrence. Were they, for the sake of a small minority, who had gone deliberately, and with their eyes open against the laws of the Church and country. to take- a step which would confessedly shock the feel ings of the community, and place the clergy in such a position as that they should either be obliged to act against their consciences, or that they should be left under an anomalous state of the law to do or not to do what he believed a great majority of the people thought contrary to the law of man and of God ? Sir G. GREY, having intimated to the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Mr. S. Wortley) that no op- Position would be offered to bringing in the Bill, did not intend at that stage to make any observa tions. Had there been opposition to the introduction of the Bill, he should have proposed to state the reasons why in his individual capacity he was prepared to give h his support in so far as it related to marriages with a ,deceased wife's sister, and why he should approve of l aying on the table of the House a measure for carrying out an object which, not in terms but in substance, had been declared by a Royal Commission to be one that required legislation. If the result of that consideration which Hon. Gentlemen would have an opportunity of 'iving to the Bill should be any opposition to its further Progress, he should then certainly assign the reasons which would lead him to vote for the second read 41g•—(Hear, hear,) He would not say he would go 3 further than the Right Honourable and Learned G entleman proposed; but he wished to guard himself a gainst being supposed to coincide entirely either in the e xtent to which the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman c arried his views, or to the limitations he approved. On that question he (Sir G. Grey) wished to be left free in formin g his judgment till the second reading. Having r ead the report of the Commission and examined the ridenc e he did not concur in the reproach thrown on the Commissioners, or in the remarks of a depreciating nat ure with respect to the evidence they had collected. Th ey _ had co ll ec t e d a vast nnmber of facts bearing upon What t o hi m had a l ways b een a paramount cons id erat i on, ara elY, the practical effect of the existing law for the best inte rests of society.—(Hear, hear.) The Hun. Member for Oxfordshi r e (Mr. Henley) said it was the opinion of i nterest e d parties that was given in the evidence, and that It ought therefore to be disregarded. Interested P ar ties were alone capable of giving that information h ich the Commission was appointed to collect. If all th e evidence of interested parties, or of parties who were !liffering from the operation of the present law, had li en set aside, the Commissioners would not have ful -I.ned their duty. With respect to the practice of the an tent church, the prohibitions were so extensive, absurd, and unnatural, th a t a dispensing power bad been intro duced whi c h had b een exerc i se d f or man y cen t ur i es i n the R oman Catholic Church; and, without falling back law Pon that practice, it would be impossible to found any d;of marriage upon the practice of the ancient church. iffered was at present in a state of uncertainty. It _ ea ,i n tnent of England, from the law which prevailed with ;err" to those marriages over the greater part of the of accomplishi ng its object. Certainly effecting that to those marriages in regard Which had taken place before Lord Lyndhurst's Act, it Was impossible to deny that the effect of that Act was, Te e nce it passed, to render those marriages indissoluble. could not imagi ne h ow an y one who thought th ose marriages contrary to the Divine law should have con curred in that A c t. Th at A ct se t a t res t ques ti ons w hi c h nated uneas i ness in families by substantially confirm s such m arr i ages o f t hi s d escr i pt i on as h a d prev i ous l y b een contracted; but prospectively he was afraid as much uncertainty was produced by the existing state of th e l a w. On these grounds he thought the House ought to allow the Bid to be brought in. It would be a matter for consideration wilt ther the measure would accomplish the object it proposed to gain, but, for one, he heartily assented to its introduction. Mr. NAPIER should give the Bill his most deter mined opposition. They had the mind of the Church of e xeigland, the Church of Ireland, and the Church of ocotland, and the concurrent Christian testimony of cen turies that those marriages were fOrbidden by the law of God. If they had to make a choce—were they to tilltoop in deference to the animal passions of those who ad broken the law, or were they to reverence the long cherished feelings of the great majority of the people? There was a religious basis for the present law, and there were very intelligible reasons for its existence, t he freedom of intercourse which the degrees of affinity ;nd eoesauguanity allowed requiring to be guarded by t r a r Y hallowed teelings. The whole principle on which e jaw of marriage rested would be endangered. mtr. PLUMPTRE felt the subject to be not unattended w • difficulties. More serious inquiry had brought :lm to a determination to oppose the Bill. The change The would introduce greater evils than now existed. 0 child ren of a deceased w if e, w h om t h e measure was t 0. 0 m ... 1 '1 1 Y intended to benefit, might suffer more than ever; ;,Jealousy an d susp i c i on wou ld b e introduc e d into fa elies such as did not now exist. the WORTLEY complained of the attack to which e d ; Co mmissioners had been subjected by the Hon. and f or 4 r , rm ed Member for Plymouth and the Hon. Member rn k 'XfOrd. Seeing who the Commissioners were, it was th7, l4 ,ter of surprise that they should have been made b• e e uieets of insinuation, if not of direct imputation. r e i a ' a r e was really no ground • for alleging that the Com rem lo ners had acted otherwise than impartially. It was de ne e e ft matter of complaint that the report and the eri , els e - di d not sufficiently,show what was the opinion of the e ne gY, of the Church of England with reference to this ation; but that was not the fault of the Commissioners. re e e ni ll iahop who presided over the Commission cora- Pow e • e e at ed with , the clergy, and did everything in his opt u i n ' tO make them come forward and declare their re -u s; but they did not do so; and the fair infe nee to the be drawn from that circumstance was, that Th ` r gY had not a strong feeling on the subject. e e Honourable Member for Oxford thought the etntnissioners had acted unfairly in stating in their e report that - the clergy of Scotland objected to the pro posed alteration of the law, without adding that the v°ople of that country also took the sa me view of the 111) . Ject; but in the very next paragraph of the report it t it s announced that th e f ee li ng of the peop l e of the t h ai ted Kingdom was opposed to the change, and surely he i nhabitants of Scotland came under that category. onwers ag somewhat ungenerous to charge the Commis thine I .uPon such grounds with being' guilty of ee e e ny: he r b" lel a suppression of the truth. The Hon. ea m_ alaPre or ss xfor next alleged that the Commission ers had th aed the f ac t that there had been no dispensatio ns e Greek Church. e, to • e er eedNLEY—l said that the fact was not alluded the'first paragraph of the report. $r r ' WORTLEY--But, if it was nut alluded to in the , T e v al. agraph, it was in another, in these terms:— he e " e Greek Church held such marriages to be inces lien's and unlawful, and not to be allowed by dispense jes-ee°r otherwise ."_(Hear, hear.) It really was un eth`::?.able• to charge a prelate of the Church, amongst hi kie s i e, Upon such unsubstantial grounds, with lending tee d to a scheme for getting up a case.. Then_ it was N a lhat the Commissioners examined interested parties. ate ee 4 ut 'that always the case under similar .circum eeek, ? .Would not &Committee on the navigation-laws itie e; l4o interested parties? Would not a Commission to ttoi — t r k e into.thaEcelesiastical Courts do the same ? Did taaief a -Commissioners appointed to inquire into the ? Wh e ,„ l Pal corporations examine interested parties soej,.would they get• information it, they did not do . ki s Wear, hea r .) Why, it was asked, had the Coin 1W I Slo LW() d "re confined their attention to marriages within W ere . s e grees? B ecause , upon inq u i r y, -th e y found there " marriages in any other degree, and like prace hand . ilm n they confined themselves to the matter in tle tn In conclusion, the Right Hon. and Learned Gen gnestieezPressed a hope that future discussions on this ap e : 1 would be conducted apart' from.tiny feelings of rat tettes.. rte /4 "i i was then given to bring in the Bill. ING TIES • AGAINST CLERGYMEN SECED kr. T ee ROM THE CHURCH O F ENGLAND. % e'er!, esOUvERIE, a fter presenting petitions from te m 1 places praying for an amendment of the Tolera isieeh4et, proceeded to move the motion of which he had 0; not ice, " That this House will resolve itself into isMinittee to consider the Act 1 William and Mary, 'dew (e°t nenonly called the Toleration Act), with a R i vin to its amendment, by extending its benefit, and Chung exemption from all penalties to ministers of the ter .em ( tf &Wan 1 d • daring themselves to be dissen- Yo s u s ti , l 3 e Yrom." was e not his intention to detain the eikanieee on ylength upon the subject ; be would confine and the to a brief s t a t ement o f t h e present state of thelaw, The, e e mod e i n which he proposed to alter and extend it. reli gi :;la i ln e tion Act mi g h t b e ca ll e d t h e grea t charter of f liberty in this country, and was the gradual re- R i noa convictionw i t irera that, instead o f p ersec ution for reli bilit taieo4o,fl.ai?e b tg e a t i n m inli a p dt eeces being duty, no penalties or civil disa nn .r,iizShouldall e hl imposed on such grounds. From the e s o u f p C r e i m i a a r e l e y s ,g all a ewhoins took against tthe THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING,_ FEBRUARY 23, 1849.: doctrine of transubstantiaticn, were exempt from all penalties against non-conformity in the ecclesiastical courts, and also from what was called the Conventicle and Five-mile Acts. The operation of this Act, how ever, was limited. It excluded Roman Catholics, and persons who did not believe in the doctrine of the Holy Trinity. These exceptions were from time to time gradually abolished, and the benefits of the Toleration Act extended to Unitarians, and in the fullest extent to Roman Catholics, and also to persons in holy orders, or pretended holy orders, who were not called upon to sign a declaration of belief in the Thirty-nine Articles of the Church, but merely that they were Protestant Dis senters, and believed in the Holy Scriptures. This was the state of the law with which he proposed to deal. The Court of Queen's Bench had lately decided that though a minister dissenting from the Church of England was exempt from penalties under the common law, he was still liable to be proceeded against in the Ecclesiastical Courts for a breach of disci pline.. He could be fined 251. a month for not attending his parish church, if residing within five miles, 40/., he believed under the Conventicle Act. Other Dissenting ministers, who had never been connected with the Church, were exempt from all these penalties, but they were still held binding on those who had once been cler gymen of that Church; and the Court held that such persons could not by any act of their own release than•• selves from these burdens. A person in such a situation was in fact a serf, a slave for life.—(Hear.) He be lieved that the doctrine was even pushed to the ex treme, that deposition itself did not relieve the person so deposed from these burdens.—(Hear, hear.) They were of course all bound to bow to the decisions of the Court of Queen's Bench as to what the law really was, but he thought the House would agree with him that it involved great hardship, and he con tended that such a construction of it was not in ac cordance with the intentions of the framers of the Toleration Act themselves. In fact it reimposed the very grievances of which they complained. He would merely mention the case of Richard Baxter, a name which would be respected as long as learning, piety, and worth were reverenced.—(Hear.) Richard Baxter was episcopally ordained, and could it be believed that an Act framed for the relief of Nonconformists would be framed in such a manner as to exclude him from its benefits? He thought the House would be prepared to give relief from the burdens which the Court of Queen's Bench de cided were imposed by law. This was not a mere theoretical question, but a practical ono, and he needed only to refer to the case recently decided in the Queen's Bench to justify him in asking the House at once to resolve itself into a Committee on tbe•law. For all that the House knew, the person affected by that decision is now in prison; it not, he was liable :o be put there at any moment, and might remain there, as far as the law was concerned, for the re mainder of his life. He was not going to enter into the details of the particular case which had directed atten tion to this matter (that of the Bishop of Exeter and Mr. Shore). He would merely say, with reference to the conduct of the Bishop in that case, that he thanked God there had been few such bishops in this country since the Revolution—(Hear, hear)—and he believed that if they had many such bishops the state of religion in this country would have been very different indeed to what it now was.—(Hear, hear.) There was no man to whom this country was so deeply indebted as John Wesley, yet he was episcopally ordained; so was Whitefield; and if the bishops of that day had entertained the same views as those which had been acted upon in the case he had referred to, both Wesley and Whitefield would have been shut up in prison all their days, instead of labouring as they did in the diffusion of religious knowledge and sen timents among the people.—(Hear, hear.) In order to show the House, however, that he was not alone in the view he took of this question, he might state that he had the approval of no less a person than the Archbishop of Canterbury, whose authority was high, not only on account of his position in the Church, but from his eminent virtues and his piety as a man. The Archbishop of Canterbury said he entirely concurred with his (Mr. Bouverie's) opinions, that there ought to be some amendment in the Toleration Act.—(Hear, hear.) He proposed that any clergyman who dissented from the Established Church, should, in addition to the oath he was required to take as a Dissenting minister to escape these penalties, likewise make a declaration of dissent from the Established Church. He would require that that declaration should be registered in compliance with the provisions of the Toleration Act, and that it should be forwarded to the Bishop of the diocese, and having been registered by him, that the person so departing from the Church, should be relieved of all the burdens which attached to him while in connexion with it, and at the same time, as was but just, that he should lose all claims and privileges which he possessed while a clergy. man of the Church.—(Hear, hear.) In short, he merely wished to put a person in the simple state which he would have occupied if he had never been a clergyman at all. Sir JAMES GRAHAM—WiII you let him hare a seat iu the House of Commons? Mr. BOUVERIE—I shall propose to do so.—(Hear.) The Hon. Member concluded by moving for the Com mittee. Mr. GLADSTONE regretted that the Hon. Member, in moving his resolution, had thought fit to speak in terms of grave censure of the conduct of a Bishop of the Church in the case to which he referred. The Hon. Member might be better informed on the subject than he was, and might, for all he knew, have authority for the statement; but certainly, as far as he was informed, he did not think the Hon. Member had given a just view of the matter. He understood that the Bishop of Exeter had offered to Mr. Shore to relieve him from all penalties as far as he (the Bishop)' was concerned. Whether it was Mr. Shore's refusal to accept the condi tions, or the defect of the law, which prevented the offer from being carried out, he knew not. With respect to the resolution, he heartily concurred in the object in view— and if at any future stage there should arise any difficul ties of detail which prevented its attainment, he should feel both surprised and grieved.—(Hear, hear.) The principle of the measure was a simple one—to release a man from burdens imposed upon him while in a certain situation, when he ceased to fill that situation, and at the same time to deprive him of all privileges enjoyed while filling it.—(Hear, hear.) There was no theological question raised by the measure. He hoped that in Com mittee it would not be necessary to dwell upon details; and all he would further say was, that he thanked the Hon. Member for the introduction of the subject, which would, he hoped and believed, effect a valuable improve ment in the law. The motion was then agreed to, and the Speaker hating left the Chair, the House went into Committee, and the resolution that a Bill be brought in having been agreed to, the House again resumed. Mr. BERNAL reported the same, and a Bill was or dered to be brought in. after the long experience of the Hon. Member, he should that night have contented himself with bringing forward an abstract proposition, the truth of a hich no man in his senses could think of doubting, instead of laying a Bill upon their table for the purpose of practically carrying out the real object which ho had in view, and containing provisions by which such a measure could be made to work. Reviewing the speech of the Honourable Member, it would be impossible to deny the likeness of the picture which he had drawn of the state of Ireland, the distress and the embarrassment of the landlord, as well as the condition of pauperism to which the population werereduced. That the Honourable Mem ber represented to be the condition of the groat mass of the country, and with that condition he contrasted the prosperity of the county of Down—a prosperity which the Hon. Member did not hesitate to say was owing al together to the tenure by which land was held in that county, and that that prosperity was in a most especial degree owing to his favourite tenant right. Now, really, notwithstanding the strong preference which the lion. Gentleman entertained for this tenant right, it tvould not be very difficult to show that the difference between the two parts of the country on which sa much stress had been laid was not altogether owing to the dif ference of tenure subsisting in the one province as com p ired with that prevailing in the other. lie would take the case of Donegal. There was no part of Ireland whatever in which there was more of what was called tenant right than in that county. He, there fore, did not think it was a fair deduction to say that the difference between Ulster and Connaught was altogether owing to the existence of tenant right in the one province and its non-existence in the other. He believed it could easily be shown that the rundale was one of the causes of the marked difference between the two districts, and then, again, the system of joint tenancy , might be considered another. But, in making these ob servations, he wished it to be understood most distinctly that he did not deny the geceral accuracy of the descrip tion given by the lion. Mover. His Hon. Friend alluded to the expediency of adopting a law somewhat like what in Scotland was called Montgomery's Act, and he (Sir W. Somerville) the more particularly adverted to this, as it gave him an opportunity of stating that Mont gomery's Act had been most carefully considered by the commission which sat under the presidency of Lord Devon, and it was the deliberate opinion of that com mission, that neither that Act, nor the machinery by which it was worked, could in any respect be rendered applicable to Ireland. He was, however, far from say ing that some measure of the kind might not be advan tageously introduced; but what he meant to show was, that there was extreme difficulty in dealing with subjects of this nature. His lion. Friend next alluded to the Bill of last session, which had been introduced by him self, aided by one or two other Members of that House, the chief object of which measure was to enable proprie tors in fee to charge the whole estate with sums of money to be borrowed for the purpose of improving those estates, and the machinery for carrying that object into effect was to have been the Board of Works. Let them only imagine for a moment every landed proprietor in Ireland using the machinery of the Board of Works. That Board must in all cases examine the nature and practicability of the projected improvements before issuing their fiat. The board must in all cases have made themselves responsible for the whole of the outlay. Now, he need hardly suggest that this would have had the effect of involving them in disputes with every landed proprietor in Ireland. And how much worse would matters have been if the more en larged ideas of his Hon. Friend had been carried into effect? He was sure that his Hon. Friend would soon have found such schemes to be impracticable. It was to be hoped, however, that the objects which his Hon. Friend had in 'view might be differently attained; at all events he felt assured that little good could be accom plished by throwing upon Government boards that which the proprietors of lands ought to do for themselves. The next subject•to which his Hon. Friend directed the attention of the House was the necessity of providing some means for remunerating tenants who at their own expense had improved their holdings. It could not fail to be in the recollection of the House that measures on that subject had been proposed by Lord Stanley acd by the Noble Lord the Member for the Falkirk district of burghs; there was also his own measure on the same subject; and yet, atter all, those various measures afforded only additional proofs of the difficulties by which these subjects were surrounded. Although he estimated those difficulties very highly, he could not say that he was at all deterred from engaging with those subjects; and he hoped that even early in the present session be should be enabled to introduce to the flouse a measure for the purpose of securing to improving te nants the fruits of their industry, and of the capital which they might expend. It would be recollected by Hon. Members, that in the course of the last year a measure had been brought forward upon this subject— it had been submitted to a Committee, and several useful suggestions had been made; he hoped, there fore, that the Bill to be proposed this year would be a decided improvement upon the former measure. In the course of the speech which the House had that evening heard from his Hon. Friend they had been told that the state of uncertainty in which the people of Ireland were placed paralyzed every effort of industry and enterprise. He confessed that he could not assent to that statement, for he did not at all see how voluntary arrangements were to be prevented by any such means. His Hon. Friend went on to say that it was the duty of Parlia ment to come in and define the tenant right of the north at the same time his Hon. Friend could not but admit the difficulty of legalizing any such right. For his part, he never distinctly understood what it was. Mr. Lamont (we believe) had written a pamphlet on the subject, and had made statements which pretty clearly showed that it would be almost impos hie to reduce any account of it to a legal definition. There wero several other subjects mentioned by his Hon. Friend, but he hardly knew whether it would be neces sary for him to touch upon them. Two of those subjects were the reclamation of waste lands and the great work of arterial draining. They were both very important subjects, but he must be permitted to say that the ques tion whether waste lands were to be improved on a large scale by the Government was a question not now very warmly entertained in Ireland, He hardly knew any question that of late years had lost so much ground as that of extensive reclamation of land in Ireland by the Government. No doubt the industry of the country was not sufficiently tasked. Every one knew that the soil of Ireland was capable of maintaining a much more numerous population than at present lived upon that soil, but those statements might be perfectly true with out its necessarily following that all the recommenda tions of his Hon. Friend should be carried into effect. Having made these few observations upon the speech of his Hon. Friend he should now say a word or two with respect to the measures which he himself intended to in troduce. He trusted that he should be able to propose to the House a Bill to enable holders of renewable leases to convert their holdings into tenacies in fee. This measure he hoped to bring in early in the present session. He also proposed to bring in a Bill for altering the law relating to grand juries, land, having said thus much, he hoped the House would be content, without adopting any such resolution as. his Hon. Friend had proposed.—(Hear, hear.) He hoped that the House would not adopt anything so undefined till they could have an opportunity of seeing what the Government in tended to do.—(Hear, hear.) . Mr. O'FLAHERTY expressed a hope that the mea sures promised by the Right lion. Baronet would be in troduced as soon as possible. He professed himself con tent with the intimations which they had received from the Government. Mr. J. O'CONNELL agreed that they should wait to see what the Government intended to do. If the Hon. Gentleman pressed his motion to a division he (Mr. O'Connell) would vote for it; bat he recommended his Hon. Friend to withdraw it, on the understanding that the Ministry were pledged to bring in a Bill during the present session to amend the laws affecting landlords and tenant-. Lord BERNARD advised the Hon. Member for Roch dale to withdraw his resolution, for he believed that if it were adopted by the House hopes would be excited in Ireland which could never be realised. He considered that the wisest course Parliament could take would be to abstain from legislating with regard to landlord and tenant ; for he believed that, in the case of the larger tenants, a mutual good feeling between themselves and their landlords would ultimately prevail, even where it might not already exist; and with regard to the smaller tenants, whose holdings were not large enough to enable them to support their families, to give them a permanent tenure would be to perpetuate misery and distress in Ireland. lie would recommend the Government to accede to a suggestion which had recently been made to the Lord-Lieutenant, and which had been made to that House some time since by the late Lord George Bentinck—to afford assistance to the railway companies in Ireland; for by so doing they would afford employment to the people, and would aid in developing the resources of the country. The Secretary for Ireland had alluded to the subject of arte rial drainage. All that was required to carry out that system was, that funds should be provided which, under the present Act of Parliament, it was found difficult to obtain. If the Government would only lend the money upon undoubted 'securit ! , the works which had been already projected might be instantly com menced. If encouragement was given to the establishment of railway communication in Ireland, the fisheries of that country might be made most valuable and productive. He wished to call the attention of the House and the Government to the fact, that although a large sum had been voted by Parliament some time since fur the establishment and improvement of piers and harbours, nearly two years had elapsed be fore any steps were taken for erecting piers in those places where they were most needed. With regard to the poor-laws he should be glad if the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) would explain whether he intended to follow out the report of the Boundary Commission, and to form new unions, leaving the temporary workhouses to be occupied in those unions until funds were obtained to build new houses, or whether the auxiliary work houses were to be taken into the present unions? He also wished to know whether the Noble Lord concurred with the Boundary Commissioners with respect to the electoral divisions.—(Hear, hear.) He would recommend the Government to extend the objects of the Land Im provement Act, and to adopt measures for instructing the people in the science of agriculture. The position of the great numbers of children in the poor-houses of Ire land was most distressing; and he would suggest that steps should be taken for sending them to the colonies. It was utterly impossible in Ireland to give out-door re lief to the aged and infirm. In many unions, when there was a prospect of out-door relief being given, suddenly, as if the whole population had been at once paralyzed, those who the day before were well and healthy become claimants for relief. He urg ed the Government to state to the House what course they intended to pursue, in order that the doubt and uncertainty which hung over every part of Ireland might as soon as possible be removed. Mr. REYNOLDS thanked the Hon. Member for Rochdale for having originated the present discussion. With respect to the cultivatiou of waste lands, he re gretted to hear from the Right Hon. the Secretary for Ireland, that there was something like apathy on that question in Ireland. He believed that that was the case; but it was easily accounted for, as the destruction of the potato crop, the famine and consequent calamities, had, to a great degree, depreciated the worth of the most valuable land. In that country, containing twenty mil lion of statute acres, competent authorities had declared that there was close upon seven millions uncultivated, and of the latter five millions were capable of reclama tion. Notwithstanding that this was the state of the case, the able-bodied were being forced by tyrannical and unnatural means out of the country, in order that they might go and cultivate the wastes in North Ame rica. The Noble Lord (Bernard) called that a compre hensive measure. Lord BERNARD—I said nothing about emigration being a comprehensive measure. Mr. REYNOLDS thought the Noble Lord had done so, but at any rate certain members of his school held that opinion. Connected with this subject he would mention a remarkaole fact which had been communicated to him within the last forty-eight hours by the Hon. Member for South L incashire (Mr. Browne), who stated that his house in inerica had drawn on his house in Li verpool bills from Irish emigrants in favour of their friends to induce them to emigrate. These bills amounted in number-to 8,000, and were for sums vary ing from IL to 301., giving an aggregate sum of 51,0001. That might be called a comprehensive measure, but he called it opening the arteries of the prosperity of Ireland and bleeding the country to death. With respect to the Committee on the Irish Poor-law, he entertained great hopes from it. He was totally opposed to disturbing the principle of that law. He looked on it as the poor man's charter, though he believed that it had sometimes turned out to be the rich man's warrant, assisting him in his tyrannical measures for depopulating the country. But he believed that such arrangements were likely to be made in the poor-law and its details as would punish the landlord for carrying out his depopulating system. Mr. MONSELL was very glad to hear the promise given by the Right Hon. Secretary for Ireland with re spe..it to the three Bills he proposed to introduce. Ho was quite sure that if the Right Hon. Gentleman intro duced the Bill on the subject of landlord and tenant, as amended last year. with some few alterations, he would confer a great benefit on Ireland, and induce tenants to expend capital on their lands, Nevertheless, he (Mr. Monsell) must express his regret that, with respect to one Bill of almost paramOunt importance, the Right. Hon. Gentleman had said nothing. He alluded to a measure in reference to the mitnagement of estates under the Court of Chancery. Mr. IL FOX dissented from the proposition of the lion. Mover of the present propositi on w i th respect to undertaking the cultivation of waste lands, and thought that the application of fre3-trad e principles in respect to Ireland had rendered it impossible to cultivate those lands with any success. Mr. CRAWFORD said he should not press his motion to a division if the Right Hon. the Secretary for Ireland would intimate that there was . a prosp ect of the .mea sures he had referred to being introduced within a rea sonable time. Sir W. SOMERVILLE was understood to say that two of them, referring to renewable leaseholds and the improvements upon land, would be introduced almost immediately in the House of Lords. Mr. S. CRAWFORD, under these circumstances, withdrew his motion. DUCHIES OF CORNWALL AND LANCASTER. Mr. TRELAWNY rose to move for a " Select Com mittee to inquire to what extent the public are entitled to claim an interest, present or prospective, in the manage ment of the Duchies of Cornwall and Lancaster, respecting which returns are annually presented to the House, and whether there is not reason to hope from those returns, as well as other circumstances, that an improvement in the management of those estates in particular, by the sup pression of antiquated and superfluous offices, and the diminution of the salaries of officials, would greatly in crease the joint net income of the two Duchies." Th e Hon. Member explained that when he last introduced the subject, he was met by the Noble Lord at the head of the Government with two objections, the first of which was that he (Mr. Trelawny) had admitted that those properties were much better managed now than they were formerly. Now that was perfectly true, but it did not follow from that that they could not be much better managed still ; indeed, the slightest in vestigation of the recent returns to Parliament on the subject of their revenues, would convince any one that a large saving might still be made in the incomes of these Duchies. The other objection was that he (Mr. Trelawny) proposed to sell those Duchies, and apply the proceeds to the public ser vice. Now, if it could be shown that the ancestor of the proprietor of any estate within the Duchies had paid threepence five hundred years ago to the Duchies, and that his land becam e li a bl e i n c onsequence, t o b e claimed by the Duchies, he had no doubt thit it would appear to the House to be a fit subject for inquiry. The Hon. Member then read a series of returns for 1846, setting out the expenditure of the Duchy, which amounted in the gross to 20,816!. 17s. 6d., incurred in getting a sum of little more than 50,000!., which appeared to be the income. The returns of 1847 appeared to be about the same. In these times of financial reform, he thought h was the duty of the House to look narrowly into those matters; and he could assure the House, if it granted the Committee, that he would make out such a case of oppression and mismanagement as would in every re spect justify the inquiry. The motion having been seconded, Lord JOHN RUSSELL said he had on a former oc casion stated reasons why the motion of the Hon. Gen tleman ought not to be agreed to. With regard to the revenues of the Duchy of Cornwall, they were the pro perty of the Prince of Wales, and the manner in which the affairs of that Duchy were managed in former times was different from the present. It appeared as if the Hon. Gentleman wished to appropriate the revenues of the Duchy, in great part, to the public service. No w that was an appropriation to which the House ought not to assent; neither, in his opinion, would the House. The lion. Gentleman stated that there was great oppression and bad management in the collection of those revenues ; but he was of opinion that the Honour able Member was under a misapprehension. The Honourable Gentleman had complained of the expendi- ture incurred in the collection of the revenues. Now, he (Lord John Russell) believed that many large pro prietors in this country gave as much, if not more, to their collectors.—(Hear, hear.) He knew, in his own family, some of the agents receive as much as 2,000/. a year, for their services in that way. By the law the pro perty of the Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall was in the Crown, and according to the practice and usage of the Parliament, it could not be taken from the Crown; and such being the case, both by law and fact, he hoped the House would not agree to the motion. Mr. P. CAREW felt that great thanks were due to the Hon. Member for Tavistock for having brought for ward this motion. The system complained of ought not in his opinion, to be longer tolerated; and he hoped th, House would grant the Committee, and pledged himself should it, that they would show such a case of intolerable grievances and oppression as would justify the inquiry. Mr. HUME must say the Noble Lord had not taken the proper view of the Subject, and in comparing the revenues in question to the Duke of Bedford's property, he should recollect that those revenues wore public pro perty. The revenues of the Duchy of Lancaster were 40,0001. by the last returns, including 7,000/. surplus balance of a former account. That left 33,000/. actual revenue in rents and sales for the year, and 12,0001. out of the 33,0001. were all that came into her Majesty, al] the rest was waste. The public had a right to know whether the property was properly managed. He main tained it was not; and he would ask any gentleman in that House whether he would say, if he only got 12,0001. out of 33,0001., that his property was well ma naged? The Hon. Gentleman who brought forward the motion had shown that a great deal of waste was in curred in " sixpences." It would, he contended, be for the interest of the Prince Royal and the Crown that the Committee should be granted, for it would lead to a better management of the property in those revenues. The Hon. Member then directed attention to the rates levied on metals, and said that the country gentlemen in Cornwall had induoed the Parliament to take off th,- royalty so levied to the amount of 15,000/. or 16,000/ and to put it on the Consolidated Fund, in order to re lieve themselves from payment of it. With respect to the pensions derived from those Duchies, he saw that Chancellor " John" Lord Campbell, received 2,000/. He did not know whether he did anything for that pen sion; perhaps he did—oh, yes, he kept "the seals."— (Laughter.) Then, again, he saw the name of Edward George Anson, as " Axe-bearer" to the Prince of Wales, 30&l.; while the Forester received only 35/. for keeping th e orest. He should like to know what Mr. Edward George Anion did ? The Hon. Member con cluded by saying he should support the motion. Mr. MILNER GIBSON thought that inquiry into the management of the Crowd lands was much called for. Those lands were vested in the Crown by Parlia ment, it was the duty of Parliament to see that they were properly managed, and he believed that her Ma jesty's Government ought to allow some inquiry, which would be for the advantage of the Crown. Mr. RICARDO was of opinion that if it were only for leading to the adoption of a better system in the working of mines, that the inquiry asked for ought not to be opposed. Under the present system, the most serious dilapidations were caused by mining under towns, and instances of great oppression were the consequence. In'his own place—Stoke-upon-Trent — they were so un dermining the place that they were actually breaking down the town; and recently 30 or 40 houses had fallen from that cause in the Duchy of Lancaster. If, then, it was only to put a stop to such a system and state of things, the House ought not to refuse the inquiry. Sir GEORGE GREY said that those cases of destruc tion of property, of which the Hon. Member f or S to k e complained, did not at all relate to the property of the Crown. They were cases of private property, in which individuals were exploring for ore; and the damage done had been made subject of inquiry . before a court of law. He hoped the House would look rightly at the question, and not consent to the inquiry. The Earl o f LINCOLN, as associated w i t h t h e Duchies of Cornwall and Lancaster, might be expected to say a few words on the subject. His object would be to show that the Hon. Gentleman had no right to deal with the Crown properties, in England, in the w a y sug gested. If they so dealt with these properties, they would upturn many of the rights of private property of this country. He would deal with the Duchies of Corn wall first. How stood this Duchy? It was granted by Edward the Third to the Black Prince, by charter, which was confirmed by Act of Parliament, and by this Act the Duchy was vested in the Prince of Wales, as Duke of Cornwall, for ever, until ho was raised to the. Throne; and if he had a son, the duchy was to pass to him. Therefore the public had no present interest in this duchy. The only right which the public could have in this duchy was prospective; but then that only applied to the time which preceded the birth of a Prince of Wales, _after the former Prince fhad ascended the throne. The Noble Lord then pro ceeded to observe upon the management of the Duchy of Cornwall. He admitted that formerly the management of the property was bad, but that system had‘been ma t erially changed since the appointment of ate-tountil which now regulate d its affairs. Formerly the tenants used to get leases for lives, but now only leases for years were given, and the result had been most advantageous to the property generally. He admitted that there had been great abuses in respect to the salaries paid to the officers, but these abuses had been got rid of to a great extent. The office of Lord Warden, for which 2,0001. a year was paid, was now held by Piince Albert without a salary. The Chancellor (Mr. Pemberton Leigh) was also unpaid. But it was true that the Surveyor-General and the Receiver-General were paid a salary of 1,000/ a year. These offices were to be got rid of. The whole of the Council were unpaid. Mr. HUME—That is the objection ; I think there ought to be a paid officer to manage the affairs of the duchy. Lord LINCOLN said if the Hon. Member had waited would have found that he intended to have said that there was a paid secretary, and his duty was to lo,lt with care to the interests of the heir to the duchy. With regard to the Duchy of Lancaster, he must admit that it was not in a favourable state, but he had every r.,a son to believe that Lord Campbell was most anxious to place the property of that duchy in a better position than it then was. The Hon. Gentleman said that only 12,000/. had been paid into the proper fund out of a re ceipt of 33,0001. lie thought the lion. Gentleman was not exactly right in this statement. Still he was bound to admit that the property of the duchy was not as well managed as could be desired. But that was one of the consequences of the property being spread over a largo space of country, and the agency in connexion with it was, therefore, necessarily very extensive. After a few words from Mr. BASS, Mr. TRELAWNY replied; and the House divided, when there appeared -7 I THE PROVIDENT CLERKS' -- ASSOCIATION. The annual meeting of the members of the Benevo lent Department of this very prosperous association was held on Wedeesday evening, at the London Tavern— John Abel Smith, Esq., M.P., occupied the chair. Among those present, we noticed-- Baron L. de Rothschild, M.P., Thomson Hankey, jun., Esq., J. W. Gilbart, Esq., R. H. Jones, Eq., Chairman; J. W. Welch, Esq., Deputy-Chairman; W. J. Jordan, Esq., Willian Maitland, Esq., John Clarke, Esq., W. S. Sawtell, Esq., S. Notley, Etq., James Lintott, Esq., Samuel Jepps, Esq., Joh n D an k eerts, Esq., A. Dawson, Esq., Richard Price, Esq., members of the hoard of management; Wm. Ratray, Esq., J. J. Iselin, Esq., Wm. Rennell, Esq., Alfred Since, Esq., F.R.S., W. 13. Rey nolds, Esq., Richard Bell, Esq., Richard Randall, Esq. The usual routine business having been transacted, Mr. R. H. JONES (the chairman of the board of management) read the report and balance-sheet, as follows: " The Provident Clerks Mutual Benefit Association and Benevolent Fund, 42, Moor ate-street, London. " REPORT FOR THE YEAR 1848. "On presenting their eighth annual report of the Benevolent Department of this Association, the board of management have much pleasure in congratulating the donors, subscribers, and members, on the favourable result of the past year. " The continued depression of commerce, and the difficulties created by the embarrassments of previous years, would naturally have checked any rapid accumu lation of the funds of this department of the Association, but, by increased exertions both in London and the provinces, the board have not only kept alive the inte rest of the Association, but have also increased the amount of donations and subscriptions. " During the past year the following sums have been received, viz. From 102 new subscribers ... From 388 old subscribers ..Xlll 2 6 .. 444 9 6 Making the total amount of subscriptions 555 11 6 And in donations ... . ... ... 239 8 6 Together ... £795 0 0 being an increase over the former year of 1991. " In addition to these sums the board have the gratifi cation to announce the receipt of 7111. Cs. 10d. from the benefit department, being one-third of the first division of profits, which amount, in conformity with the rules, was duly invested in the Funds. "This fact may ,be consislered as one of great im portance in the early history of the association, and whilst it has more than realised the anticipations of the board it holds out a most encouraging prospect for the future, more especially as the regular increase in the business of the Life Assurance Department, is a gua rantee that the benevolent fund will, in future derive very considerable advantage from this source. " The business of the past year, for the assurance department shows the following favourable result, and the board have the pleasure to state that 434 policies, representing 85,1104 were issued, which exceeded the amount of business of any previous year. " In accordance with the resolution of the last annual meeting, an election of three annuitants took place at the London Tavern on the 31st of May last, when One clerk was elected to an annuity of ... 25L And Two widows of clerks, each to annuities of 151. making in all, Three clerks and seven widows of clerks, Annuitants on the funds of this department. " Towards meeting the expenses unavoidably in curred, and as a trifling compensation for the disap pointment to the unsuccessful candidate, the board, as on the previous occasion of the election of annuitants, presented her with a gratuity of 101 " On the evening of the day of election, the Right Hon. Henry Labouchere, M.P., President of the Board of Trade, presided at a public dinner at the London Tavern, in aid of the funds, and was supported by a large number of patrons and friends of the association; the net amount realised thereby was 3191. Os. " Connected with this part of their ,duty, the board have the pleasure to announce that through the exer tions of Mr. Lea, their agent at Liverpool, a public dinner was also held at that place for the purpose of promoting the int eres t s o f t h e assoc i ation, and it is gra tifying to record that the warmest feeling was evinced by the Worshipful the Mayor, C. B. Horsfill, Esq., chair man, and a large number of influential gentlemen in favour of the objects of the association, and the board hepe that the example thus set by the great commercial town of Liverpool may be followed by others, so that the benefits of the association may develop themselves in every part of the kingdom. " Whenever the agents of the association gave encou ragement to hold public meetings, the board readily sent deputations; and during the past year a meeting was held at Gloucester, the Worshipful the Mayor, D. H. Walker, Esq., in the chair, and another at Nor wich, presided over by H. J. Gurney, Esq., a name uni versally known in the cause of philanthropy and bone volence. " The deputations also visited Stroud, Monmouth, Newport, and Bristol, and they have pleasure in stating that in all those places the seed sown has produced con siderable benefit to both departments of the association. "During the past year fifteen gratuities have been made to 12 members, to the extent 0f.98/. 10s., and 115 members have received assistance from loans to the ex tent of 2,4611 Gs. Gil., being double the amount granted during the preceding year. This fact not only shows that the clerks were involved in the general distress which prevailed, but also shows the benefit they have derived as members of this association, and the managers are aware of many instances in which this timely as sistance to distressed clerks has been of essential advan tage to them. •-•.• A meeting of the treasurer and trustees was held on the 6th of February at the office of the association, when the balance-sheets of both departments were inspected by them, and they were pleased to express their satis faction at the progress which had been made. " The balance- s heet fo r th e y ear 1848 , d u l y au di te d , i s as follows, by which it will be seen that the increase made to the funds of the association during the past year is 1,2461. 19s. 9d. : "The invested fund on the 31st December, 1848, amounted to 11,6281. Three per Cent. Stock. With re ference to the expenses hitherto charged to this depart ment, the Board, after mature consideration, and looking to the large amount received from the assurance de partment for the one-third share of profits, and also to tha tact that the whole of the proceeds arising from dinners and provincial meetings have been applied to the benevolent fund, considered it equitable on this occasion to continue the course they pursued last year by charging one-third of the general expenses to this department, but they feel confident that for the current year they will be able to make a considerable reduction. ...._. " The board have now the pleasure to recommend, that at the election on the 30th May next one clerk and three widows of clerks be elected annuitants on the fund, and to give effect to the same a resolution will be sub mitted in the course of the evening. " Being fully impressed with the great advantages de rived from the public dinners in making known the ob jects of the Association, and considering the improved state of commerce, and the suggestions of some of the warmest friends and ;most liberal contributors to the funds of the association, the board think it desirable again to celebrate the election of annuitants by a din ner, and they will take measures accordingly, not doubting that they will experience the like hearty co operation which has attended their former efforts. " In conclusion the board congratulate the members on the steady progress of an association which offers to those for whom it was or:ginally founded advantages peculiar to itself, and they again earnestly impress upon all the necessity of a warm co-operation in extending its usefulness, a course by which they will at once pro mote their own individual interests, and that of the asso ciation in general." The report was much applauded, particularly that portion relating to the election of four additional an nuitants—namely, one clerk and three widows of clerks. Mr. JONES said, before the adoption of the report was put by the Chairman, he wished to say a few words with respect to the publication of the balance-sheet. At the recent meeting of the members of the benefit depart ment, the directors were blamed for not having published the balance-sheet of that department. lie wished to state that the directors had not the slightest objection to do so,—(Cheers.) The only consideration with them was the expense of doing so, which, ho was bound to say, was treated by some of the members at the last meeting as a matter of little importance. If it was the wish of the meeting that that the balance-sheets should be printed, the board would at once accede to it.—(Cheers.) He concluded by moving the first resolution:— That the report now read be received, adopted, ansi printed at the discretion of the board." Mr. J. W. WELset seconded the proposition, which was put by the Chairman and carried unanimously. Mr. 31AITLAND rose to propose the next resolution— " That on the 30th May next, or such other day as the board may appoint, of which due notice shall be given, a special general meeting be held for the pur pose of electing four additional annuitants, duly qualified according to the rules, viz., one clerk being a member to an annuity of 25/, and three widows of members to an nuities of 151. each, and in the event of no qualified member offering himself, then to elect four widows of members to annuities of 151. each." (Loud cheers.) He said he submitted it to the meeting with very peculiar pleasure, :sine! , tw .: years ago, in May, 1847, h e h a d the happiness this exception, to the members a simil a r proposition, with this exception, that but two annuitants were proposed to be elected, whilst on the present occasion they proposed to elect four.—(Loud cheers.) They were often told that " one fact is worth a bushel of arguments. a ygratifying to neers " Now this was a fact that must be p ( e c cui .) It was indeed every member of the society. a source of great satisfaction that the progress of the institution had been of a n ature to enable the director s to propose the election of four additional annuitants, and they felt that, strengthened by the it members,would continue to progress, and enable the directors at a future period to propose the election of additional annuitants. ot importance (Cheers.) The managers had always felt th a t t h e benevolent department o f the Association h altoge ther progressed as they could wish, and as i t s ad not deserved. It had not increased in the same rapid man ner as the benefit or assurance department, for it must be borne in mind that but a tithe part of the clerks, even of the metropolis, contributed to this department, though a large number had essured their , lives in the other; yet, upon the whole, the managers ' were happy to congratulate the members on the progress it had made. They were all aware that much distress had prevailed during the past year among many of the persons engaged in commerce. This had tested the value of this association, and as they had heard a very large amount had been lent to members— indeed, double the amount of the preceding year ; and the managers had reason to know that the utmost good members. Th e had been thereby con f erre d upon many IRELAND.-TENANT-RIGHT. Mr. S. CRAWFORD then rose to move " that the laws relating to landed property in Ireland, as affecting the rights and powers both of landlords and tenants, require the immediate consideration of this House, with a view to such alteration of those laws as will re move the obstacles at present existing to the improve ment of the soil and employment of the people." The lion. Gentleman said that, in consequence of the failure of the potato crop, the people were rapidly being ex terminated from Ireland, partly by ejectment, partly by death, and partly by emigration. The people had be come degraded in mind and body. That was the case in Connaught and some parts of the south, but there was an exception to that state in one part of Ireland—and that was in Ulster. In no part of the United Kingdom was there a lower degree of poverty than in Ulster. In other parts the occupiers of the soil had no interest in it, but in Ulster the tenants held immediately under the landlord, and under a system which gave encouragement to improvement and security to the tenant for the money he expended by the custom of what was called tenant right. He should 'propose that a landlord laying out money for the improvement of an estate should have the power of charging it on the inheritance, for it was hard that a landlord should be called on to expend money on an estate, the whole of which would go to enrich his eldest son. Another measure required was to enable landlords under entail to grant sufficiently long leases to encourage the improvement of ill-cultivated and un drained lands, charging the inheritance with the money expended on those improvements. The rights of inter mediate landlords subsisting between the occupying tenants and the head landlord also demanded attention. Provision should be made for satisfying those rights in some way, either by allowing those inter mediate parties to claim a title in perpetuity or to sell to the landlord on a valuation, so that the real occupier of the soil might be brought into direct communication with the landlord-in•chie►. The next measure was the most important of all, namely the security of the tenant who laid out his money in improvements. Neither landlords nor tenant knew how to make agreements for leases in the present state of uncertainty. If nothing were to be done, let the public know it immediately; but if the Government did not intend to propose a mea sure, he entreated them to bring it forward with as little delay as possible. Until that was done they need expect neither improvement nor increased employment in Ire land. Another beneficial measure would be for the State to enter upon waste and uncultivated lands, which could bo profitably improved, paying the owner for them at a valuation proportionate to their present condition. These lands might be drained, and then re-sold, with a certainty of ample remuneration to the Government, besides providing at. the same time for the employment of the people. • Was it not melan choly to think that in Connaught, where the greatest distress existed and where the people were starving for want of employment, there were 1,560,000 acres of im provable land now lying waste? He thought that the lands of those who did not pay their poor-rates should be sold, and these defaulters treated like other bank rupts elsewhere. He did not see why the industrious people of England or Ireland should be called upon to make good the deficiency of such defaulters until their property had been made answerable. Govern ment ought also to bring in a Bill to amend the En cumbered Estates Act of last session, so as to render it more simple and snore applicable to the wants of the country. It was his firm opinion that if the proper measures were taken Ireland could provide for double or treble her present population. But the Government must take bold measures for the improvement of that country. If they stood upon the abstract rights of landlords, and would pass no measures for Ireland but such as were suited to England, they would never do any good. Ire land required extraordinary measures, as the Govern ment had admitted when they set aside the liberties of the subject in that country. It was nec scary that mea sures of a somewhat arbitrary character should be passed with regard to the relation of property in Ire land, while at the same time he would provide for the rights both of landlords and tenants. He brought for ward the present motion with no hostile feelings to the Government, who, he trusted, were determined to pro pose those measures which the urgency of the case re quired.—(Hear.) Sir W. SOMERVILLE frankly acknowledged that it occasioned in his mind no small surprise to find, that For the motion Against it ... 1, 27 ••• •• • 74 Majority ... _...-17 Mr. ANDERSON then moved for a Select Com , mitten to inquire into the practicability of providing, by means of the commercial steam marine of the country, a reserve steam navy, available for the national defence when required, and of thereby effecting a large reduc tion of the naval expenditure.—Agreed to. Mr. HUME moved an address for an account of the aggregate amount of fees received by the Commissary Clerk in Scotland, under the Act 4 Geo. IV., c. 97, as regulated in 1838, in each of the ten years 1839 and 1848, both inclusive.—Agreed to. The HON. GENTLEMAN also moved for a " Copy of the minute or minutes of the Treasury, granting a re tiring allowance to Mr. Graham in 1823, on the aboli tion or reorganisation of the office of principal com missary clerk in Edinburgh; stating the amount paid to Mr. Graham in each year since that date as pension for the loss of that office, and also the amount paid to him for loss or remuneration in the appointment of depute commissary clerk in each 3 ear for , the same period."— Agreed to. VANCOUVER'S ISLAND. Mr. HUME then moved an " Address for copy of the correspondence between the Hudson's Bay Company and the Secretary for the Colonies, in which the case submitted to her Majesty's Attorney . and Solicitor General; and opinion thereon, respecting the capa bility of the Hudson's Bay Company to hold land as a grant from ithe Crown on the North-west Coast of America, was specially forwarded and referred to in the letters of Mr. Hawes and Sir J. H. Pelly, printed in the Parliamentary papers presented to this House in August last, respecting Vancouver's Island." He said the conduct of the Government was very blameable in granting this island to a company who had no means of colonising it. It was of the utmost importance that they should have a port at Vancouver's Island, at which British ships might refit in case of war. He considered it material that the return he moved for should be granted, and if there was any rule against the production of these documents, it ought to be got rid of. Mr. HAWES said it was not in the power of the Colo ❑ial-office to procure the return moved for. The case was now in the hands of the Hudson's Bay Company ; but if it was in possession of the Colonial-office, it would be contrary to precedent to produce these confidential opinions of the law-officers of the Crown: He hoped, therefore, the Hon. Gentleman would not press his motion. After a few words from Mr. AGLIONBY and Mr. WYLD, ho motion was withdrawn. The Consolidated Fund (8,000,0004)Bill was reported, The House then adjourned at Half-past Twelve. PARLIAMENTARY DIVISIONS. From the "Votes and Proceedings of the House of Commons. THURSDAY, FRB. 22. DUCHIES OF CORNWALL AND LANCASTER. Motion made, and Question put, " That a Select . Com mittee be appointed, to inquire to what extent the public are entitled to claim an interest, present or prospective, in the management of the Duchies of Cornwall and Lancaster, re specting which Returns are annually presented to the House, and whether there is not reason to hope, from those Returns, as well as other circumstances, that an improvement in the management of those estates, in particular by the suppres sion of antiquated and superfluous offices, and the diminution of the salaries of officials, would greatly increase the joint net income of the two Duchies." The House divided : MINORITY-AYES, 27. Adderley, C. B. Gibson, T. M. Ricardo, J. L. Agliouby, H. A. Gwyn, Bowel Smith, J. Benjamin Bass, M. T. Ilardcastle, J. A. Thicknesse, B. A. Blewitt,:Reginald Hastie, Alexander Thompson, Colonel. lirotherton, Joseph Heyworth, L. Thornely, T. Carow, W. H. role Kershaw, James Wahnsley, Sir J. Cobden, Richard , Morris, David Wawn, J. T. Cowan, Charles ]Pearson, Charles TELLERS. Ellis, John Perfect, R. Trelawny, J. S. Fcx, W. J. Plltington, James Hume. J. MAJORITY—NOES, 74. Moly, T. N. Fordyce, A. D. Parker, John Anderson, Arthur Grenfell, Charles W. Pugh, David Baines, M. T. Grey, Sir G. Robartes, T. I. Baring, Sir F. T. liallyburton, Lord Russell, Lord John Baring, Thomas Hawes, Benjamin Rutherford, A. Barrington, Viscount Henley, J. W. Sanders, George Beckett, W. Herbert, H. A. Shell, R. L. Bellew, R. M. Herbert, Sidney Sheridan, R. B. Berkeley, Captain llobliouse, Sir John Simeon, John Bernard. Viscount Itodgson, W. N. Smith, J. A. Birch, Sir T. Hellond,:Robert Smith, M. Tucker Beckon, S. W. Hood, Sir A. Smythe, George Boyle, Colonel Howard, Lord E. Somerville, Sir W. Campbell, W. F. Lewisham, Viscount Spearman, H. J Castlereagh, Visa. Lincoln, Earl of Stafford, Augustus Chichester, Lord J. Littleton, E. R. Tenison, E. K. Christy, Samuel Megan, IP. K. Turner, G. J. Cobbold, John C. Maitland, Thomas Ward, H. G. Cochrane, A. ; Matheson, A. Willcox, Brodie Coles, H. S. . Maine, Fox Wilson, Matthew Cowper, W. F. Maxwell, J. P. Wood, Sir Charles Duncan, Lord ; Mil es , Phili p W. S . Wyld, James Duncuft John Mulgraye, Earl Dundas, Admiral N a pi er , Joseph Hill, L z m ax a s r . cus Edwards, Henry O'B r i en, J. Tuthell, H. Ferguson, Sir R. Palmerston, Vie. NAVAL INTELLIGENCE. THE NEW EXPEDITION IN SEARCH OF SIR JOHN FRANK LIN.—The North Star, 26-gun frigate, was taken into the basin at Sheerness yesterday, to be masted, after which she was to be docked to be "doubled," and otherwise fitted for an expedition to Baffin's Bay, to which place she is destined to carry out a full cargo of provisions, in the hope of falling in with Sir John Franklin and party. One. hundred extra ship. - srights are to be employed upon her to finish her in six weeks. The flag of the Portsmouth commander-in-chief, Admiral the Hon. Sir T. Bladen Capel, K.C.8., was struck on board the Victory at sunset, on Wednesday night, the gallant Admiral having gone on leave. The Port duties devolve on Rear. Admiral H. Prescott, C. 8., superintendent of the Dock yard, during his absence. The Fearless steam. vessel, Second Master Commander Chapman, arrived at Portsmouth yesterday morning from Plymouth with supernumeraries; she sailed again in the evening for Sheerness and Chatham. The Superb, 80, Captain E. Purcell, was docked at noon on Wednesday at Portsmouth. The Sappho, 12, Commander Michell, is ordered to be ready to leave Portsmouth harbour on the Ist of next month. The Myrtle steamer, Mr. Alfred Balliston acting master commander, returned to Portsmouth on Wednesday morning from Brighton. PLYMOUTH, FIB. 21.—The Fearless steamer, Mr. John Wells, Second Master, commanding, arrived on Sunday with seamen and marines paid off' from the Juno, at Chatham. She has been placed under the charge of Sir W. H. Gage, as a tender to the Impregnable. The second master, engineers, and stokers are to remain in her, but the remainder of her crew are to return to the Ocean. HICYIfAM WORKS.—These works are progressing rapidly, The foundation of the whole of the sea wall is in, and the south basin and No. 1 Dock are in a very advanced state. On Saturday last the foundation stone of No. 2 Dock was laid by Jir. J. Jole, jun. The stone was a beautiful specimen of Cornish granite exceeding in weight twelve tons. There was a supper provided on the occasion at Townshend's Hotel for the foremen of the different departments. Mrs. Charles Kean, we regret to say, has been suffering from an attack of influenza, which has rendered her incapable of performing since Monday. There is no doubt, however, that this distinguished actress will be well enough to re-appear on Monday next, wken she will perform Emilia, in the tragedy of Othello, to her husband's (ago. We are requested by Mr. Macgregor, M.P., to state that he is in no way connected with a bank called " the Na tional Security Bank." FOREIGN WOOLS." At the recent wool sales, the whole of certain qualities of foreign wools, after some com petition, were purchased for Messrs. Nicoll, the extensive woollendrapers and clothiers of Regent-street and Corahill. They are all marked for Gloucestershire, as in that county the mills are situated wherein the raw material will be con verted into the beautiful fabric known as the Nicollian Cloth, a species of manufacture introduced by the firm • from whom it derives its name."—The Globe. Woollen buyers and con sumers are reminded that Messrs. Nicoll were the first, and continue to be the only house in the United Kingdom that ever offered to the buyer and consumer, for cash payments, the saving of all the several profits of the intermediate grades that continue to exist between the wool-growers and them selves. As will be shown by the above extract from one of the public journals, the wool used in the manufacture of the Nicollian Cloth does not leave Messrs. N.'s possession until it is produced in the piece ready for sale, either by their agents or themselves, at the wholesale warehouse, 120, Re ' gent-street, and afterwards, when m a d e u p i n t o th e fashion able and patented garments known as " The Nicoll," " The Registered Paletot," and "Nicoll's Morning Coat," all of which can be purchased singly of the several recognized agents, as also of the patentees, H. J. and D. Nicoll, at their retail ware. rooms, 114, 116, and 120, 'Regent-street, and 22, Cornhill, London. [ADVERTISEMENT.] —An Abscess in the Breast Cured by Holloway's Ointment and Pills.—About three years since Mrs. O'Flaherty of Mill-street, Cork, accidentally bruised her breast, for months afterwards the pain increased and the part became fearfully swollen • various applications were tried without giving the least relief. Ultimately an ab scess formed, discharging a great quantity of humou r, at this which debilitated her c o ns titution to an alarming exten t ; for tbese fine Ointment and Pills, having . witness e stage a lady strongly recommended i r he t ir o g tr o y od H e o ff l e lo c w ta ay on 's former occa s ions, which advice she followed , and medicines answered most satisfactorily, the w o u nd was soon healed, and her health is now comp letel y all Druggists and at Professor Holloway' renovated.— Sold by s Establishment, 244, strand, London. directors had been able to meet every application for a loan or gratuity without delay, and in all eases with the utmost advantage, granting suoh aidsto distressed members as the nature of the case seemed to demand—(Cheers)—they had not only been abla to effdct 'all this, but to add 1.2004 to the invested fund .of this branch of the Association.—(Cheers.) These they would admit were strong facts with respect to the pros gress they had made, and the paramount value of the association.—(Cheers.) If they continued to aid the managers in disseminating a knowledge of the institu tion, and by inducing their friends to contribute to. ita funds, and generally to strengthen them in their labours, he looked confidently forward to the time when. they would be enabled to place on their books an increased number of annuitants. —(Cheers.) Mr. RENNELL rose to econs? the motion. He said he was called upon at an earlier hour of, the evening than he expected, and, therefore, ho could not get his courage up to the sticking point—. (Laughter)—though a giant in size, his nervousness rendered him almost powerless. As, however,-:he knew ho was among friends who would excuse his trepidation, he would merely observe that every one'who had heard the report must be deeply gratified with it, more especially that the labour of the directors had enabled them to propose the election of four ad ditional annuitants. Every one, ho was sure, must be delighted that they were the mem bers of an association which conferred so muck unmixed good.—(Cheers.) It was his earnest hop* that no case of distress might come before the board which they should be unable to meet, in consequence of want of funds. As their worthy Chairman had not yet spoken, and as, doubtless, several other gentlemen in tended to address them, he would not detain them longer, and, without further preface, second the proposition. The CHAIRMAN put it to the meeting, saying —Those in favour of this cheering and gratifying proposal will be pleased to hold up their hands. The motion was carried by acclamation. Mr. R. 11. Josses said, it had fallen to his lot on every occasion to propose the resolution which be held in lass hand, and as each year rolled round he assured them he felt increased pleasure in doing so. It was to the follow. iug effect : " That this meeting tenders its warmest thanks to the treasurer and trustees for their uniform kindness and patronage in favour of the association." —(Prolonged cheers.) The kindness of the treasurer and trustees had so often manifested itself on very many occasions, of which the members at large could not be aware, that the applause which the members had bestowed on the proposition was no more than their due.— (Cheers.) The directors had often had occasion to apply to them upon various matters, and they had ever found them most ready to assist with their co-operation and advice in all matters connected with the society.—(Loud cheers.) In short, the deep interest they at all times evinced in the association ren dered it imperative on him to make the statement he had. —(Cheers.) A proof of this was to be found in the fact of their voluntary attendance at the re cent meeting. They voluntarily came forward, whether the base insinuations that were thrown out on that occasion were just or not. " You heard," said Mr. Jones," on that occasion the expressions of our chairman, which I trust have convinc e d every one pre sent—indeed, I think, the meeting to which I refer tes tified as much—that those insinuations were most inju dicious; nay, I will go further, and stigmatize the issu ing of such a document as most wicked. —(Hear.) The resolution was seconded by Mr. WELCH. Baron Rontscumn, M.P., who was much applauded, rose and said,—Mr. Jones and gentlemen, as our excellent chairman is to have the pleasure of addressing you shortly, he has requested me to return thanks for him, and for Mr. Mulkey and myself for the high com pliments you have passed upon us for our trifling ser vices. At the same time I beg to thank Mr. Jones for expressing his willingness to attend to the advice of the treasurer and trustees. Of course he is fully aware of the fact that the advice which we give is for the benefit of the society. At the last meeting we had the pleasure of being present, we advised you gentlemen to exert yourselves to extend the knowledge of the benefits of the society throughout the country, and to do your best to induce your friends and others to sub scribe. We were happy to find from the report that your exertions have enabled you to accomplish, and to propose to accomplish so much good. We are glad else to find that the advice which we gave to the mana gers to economise the expenditure as much as possible has been much attended to.—(Cheers.) Of course, if the association is carried on expensively, many parties may not subscribe who otherwise woald do so. We are happy to find by the report that next year the expenses will be materially reduced.—(Hoar.) When you consider the amount of the subscriptions, and the sum realised at the last dinner, I think the benefits con ferred, and the election of four additional annuitants, is no more than you have a right to expect.—(Hear, hear.) The institution has met with much applause, and much credit is due to those with wheat it originated ; yet the large subscriptions and the generosity of the public, leads me to the opinion that the benefits are not greater than might have reasonably been expected. The advice given to the managers —who devote an unwearied attention to the charity, deserve as much gratitude on your part, and on that of the public, as it is possible to bestow upon them— is received in so excellent a spirit that I think we are obliged to them for giving us the opportunity of offering it. When I speak thus I utter the sentiments of the whole of the trustees. Perhaps in the course of the evening the chairman of the board will state the amount of the reductions proposed to be made. If they have that gratifying news to make I shall be happy to hear it. If the society progresses as during the past year—and I see no reason why it should not do so to a ; far greater extent—we may not be much under tho mark if we reckon that before long wo may be in a condition to elect six or even eight additional annuitants.—(Cheers.) In conclusion, I trust that each year we shall see the number of annuitants increase. —(Cheers.) Mr. BELL said he rose with feelings of pleasure to offer a few observations—feelings altogether opposite to those with which he entered the room at the last meet ing. He trusted that the expenditure would not be so reduced as to cripple the efforts of the directors to extend a knowledge of the advantages of the association.—(Cheers.) He would rather see them en terprising in that respect, and in doing so overshoot the mark, than practise a false and consequently an injurious economy.—(Cheers.) It was impossible to carry out an undertaking of this kind, unless great enterprise was used. It was perhaps pre sumptuous in him to offer these observations, as he happened in some respects to be a stranger.- -(No, no.) The management was above all praise. Many, he was sure, would confirm him in the statement that the officers attended most scrupulously to their duty—(Hear, hear)—and whenever he had occasion to seek any information from the directors he had levee riably experienced from them the utmost urbanity. He could say that never had greater care been taken than was taken by their medical officers with those who were about to become assurers in the association ; and with regard to the medical officers in the country, although ho was not able himself to insure that result that had been:already laid before the meeting, still, when at head-quarters matters were so admirably arranged, it was undoubtedly the case that it was so at the out• posts. To their honorary solicitors, he understood, teo, they were very much indebted, although he heard a care less remark thrown out the other evening as to the value of those gentlemen ; and ho therefore pro posed that the thanks of the meeting be given to the auditors, medical officers both in town and country, and to the honorary solicitors, for their valuable services during tho past 'ear.—(Cheers.) Mr. JORDAN seconded the motion, which was put from the chair and carried unanimously. Mr. H. B. REYNOLDS said it was his privilege to move a vote of thanks to the gentlemen who composed the' board of management.—(Hear, hear.) He felt in making that remark that he could never by any words of his enhance the strong claim which those gentleman had on their confidence.—(Cheers.) If un limited confidence could be placed by one man in others, that confidence was placed by him in the present board of management. The report which had been read that evening was extremely gratifying, inasmuch as it showed, among other satisfactory considerations, that this was no longer a society that could bo of service to clerks generally, but it was really doing no inconsiderable amount of good to other claw' for whom it was not originally instituted.—(Dear, hear.) He was sure that to every clerk, especially those M subordinate situations, the association was " Out in in valuable for the assistance which it h e ld rneut. times of sickness and loss of ° ty Y was He after the did think, however, while the pro gressing, that after so many years,them an d by their em kindness and indulgence allowed to tell P be l° r Many persons granted only under ' y c e_rs ( , e th h o e y er o s. u ) ght to pres4oiFenma ibgehtttesrulpiaptoosef StrlballtEasri: unit sistance from this society was u them that members requiring assistance from th e so ciety!it, on the contrary, they came only to h he mugt bea did not come there to leek it in listing circumstances; but the fund presented j a ° s r k m f j or Pa a ' s ‘P si e s r t i an l ce f rom which the , themselves w move th ar at d th o e f best thanks of the meeting b e had created.—(Cheers.) II begge d prese management. Mr. Pesos said, that having been for some time a member of the association, andone of its earliest supporters, he must say he felt certain that the board of management were deserving of h • t els. very best thanks. At the commencement of this association, and for about two years afterwards, it made but very slow progress; but owing to the assiduity evinced in the management of the association for a period of five years, it had very much increased. He begged to second the motion, that the best thanks of the meeting be given to the board of management for their continued exertions in protecting and watching over the interests of the association. The CHAIRMAN said, he need not tell the meeting with what pleasure he put that resolution to them. The resolution was put and carried unanimously. Mr. JONES said, ho assured the meeting that be felt extremely gratified for that renewed mark of their confidence.—(Cheers.) That expression of confidence had always been accorded to the board of management on every occasion on which they had as sembled there, and so long as he continued one of the managers of the association they would always continue to deserve it. It was their desire to use every exertion and every means in their power to promote the advance ment of the association, and when they succeeded it was the greatest gratification which they cou ld experience . _ He would ju s t a ll u d e t o th e o b serva tions which had fallen from the Baron Rothschild—they should not pass unheeded.—(Hear.) One of the most difficult positions in which the board of managers had been placed was to know how to act with reference to their expenditure-- (Hear)—and the meetin g m i g ht depend upon it that the managers had every desire and every wish to reduce that expenditure as much as pcssibie. But then Wen res _~ 11 O. 0 00 M weee our r the -