The Sun. — London, England, 1820-10-06 00:00:00

PARLIAMENT, HOUSE OF LORDS-YESTERDAY. THE QUEEN'S DEFENCE. [After the introductory proceedings of their Lordships were concluded, the Counsel were or tiered to be called in ; on which the Attorney- General, the Solicitor-General, the Advocate- General, Mr. Brougham, Mr. Denman, Dr. Lush ington, and Mr. Williams, entered, and bowing to the House took their seats.] Mr. WILLI t3IS immediately resumed his ad dress to the Ilouse. The course he had been pursuing towards the close of his address yester day, had been directed to the circumstance of the Counsel in support of the Bill not W i ling all those witnesses which it might have'been natu rally expected that they would call"; and whom f they had called, her Majesty the Queen would not have been driven to call evidence at all. --Whe observations the Leaped Counsel had made on That part of the case, w uld "receive the strongest confirmation from *le difficulties to hich the Queen was exposed. lie begged fo commence what he had to offer this day, by a statement of some facts painfully illustrative of those difficulties. Their Lordships would recol tort that the witness, Barbara Kress, had stated that on one occasion at Carisruhe she saw the Princess and Bergami on a bed, adding a'de scription of the position in which their arms were with respect to each Other. Of course' nothing could be so natural as that her Majesty, as fast as the case against her was developed in evidence, should make every possible inquiry on the Con. Client, to see how far the witnesses could be contradicted. Her Majesty recollected, that daring her stay at this place, she had been con scantly attended by a Chamberlain of the Grand Duke of Baden, to whom that occupation was specifically assigned. It would be a waste of time for the Learned Counsel, as he thought, to urge to their Lordships, the great importance of that evidence which this person must be enabled to give on an occasion like the present. It would be a frivolous trifling with commonsense, to press on the consideration of the House, that as this person had been in constant attendance on her Royal Highness, his testimony respecting her conduct would be of the highest import. He Was in close attendance on her person, by special appointment, during her, Royal high ness's visit at that place ; and feeling the great importance of his testimony, her Majesty was desirous, as far as possible, to be armed against the case in support of the Bill. Accordingly, her Majesty, with her own hand, wrote a letter, and sent it by a special messenger, of the most respectable sort, to procure the attendance of the witness in question. That letter, however, did not obtain the production of that witness. Her Majesty then wrote another letter, with hey own hand, and sent it by another messenger—one the Learned Counsel believed, to the Cham berlain, and the other to the Grand Duke. Three letters were therefore written by the Queen, and sent by special messengers, to procure the attendance of this witness. It, however, appeared that the Chamberlain himself was willing to "come; but declared with tears in his eyes, that ~he had received express orders to the contrary from the Grand Duke ; and accordingly, as might be expected, he had not arrived. With respect to the witnesses on the other side, the Learned Counsel would remind their Lordships, that by the interference of two Ministers and two Ambassadors, one woman had been partly com . pelled to arrive, and this was the sort of opera `;lions that were carried on, and the species of compulsive influence which was exerted all one way. It would further appear, that her Ma jesty had at Radstadt seen a place which she was desirous to occupy. No intention was expressed by the Grand Duke to the contrary. The very seine Chamberlain had, on that occasion, pro ceeded even to the length of purchasing new fur niture for this residence, when it was signified to her - Majesty, that her inhabiting this place would not be agreeable. This might have been another reason for keeping back this Chamberlain, who would have been so important a witness for her Majesty. Again, her Majesty conceiving it de sirable that the conduct and character of Ber gami, while in the service of General Piuo, should be ascertained, application was made to that Officer to come to this country. He also, the Learned Counsel believed, expressed his willingness to come ; but an intimation was given to him from the Austrian Govern ment, in whose service he now is, that if he did come to this country he was not to come in his uniform. So st!' ige an injunction excited the gallant General's suspicious that it was thereby intended he should lose his commission if he obeyed the summons. He made inquiries. whe ther that was the signification intended to be conveyed, but to those inquiries lie had received no answer. Accordingly, General Pino had not come, and would not come. These were some of the hardships and difficulties under which her Majesty laboured ; and, while compulsion was exerted towards the witnesses on the other side, for forcing their attendance on the House, a milar degree of influence was manifested, to pre veimt,the attendance of some of those witnesses necessary to the Queen's defence. There were some physicians and lawyers too, the latter of whom probably would be expected to have an eye to the things that are, of whom it was impos sible to know until they came, how far their tes timon y might be considered necessary, but they also were absent from the restraint of some such indications of the wish of persons in power, as of ten plainly showed, that by No, they meant Aye, and by Aye, No l He had thought it necessary to make these observations to their Lordships, although, in so doing, he had turned out of the course which he had intended to pursue, as they Feemed to him to place in a stronger light the powerful and triumphant argument which his Learned Friend had founded on their not calling the proper witnesses. He begged now to make some few remarks on the case, generally, before he opened the evidence in defence. He would ask, how it was possible, if the guilt of her Ma jesty were so notorious as the preamble of the Bill charged, that proof was so long in its pre paration and production ? It was proverbial, -that a plain case could not nefal such delay. If a man assassinated another in the noon day at Charing Cross, he could not be guilty of that crime without numerous witnesses to attest his iniquity, and bring him to con dign punishment. It was the commission of the crime at midnight, in the dark, and in se cret, that rendered proof precarious, and yet here the guilt of her Majesty was charged to exist in the face of day. If it were really so, the Learned , Counsel would ask, why had so great a delay occurred in getting up and bringing forward this case ? How was it, too, that with all the proof addued on the subject, her Ma jesty's chambermaid,. who had attended her in the first two months•of her travels, had not been called ? These inconsistencies argued the feeble tness of the case on the other side, and showed the ingenuity with which it had been got up. He would now ask whence all this delay—why is' a se,aeleigt next, in point of enormity to that of high treason'rept'Ack to this season ? Why was a period of three years suffered to elapse before the facts were brought under judicial observa tion—a time, which he begged leave to state, if suffered to pass by before a charge of treason were brought, would render that charge alto gether nugatory ? Could it be pretended that the conduct of the Queen Consort of this Realm, or if not actually the Queen Consort, the wife of the Representative of the Sovereign, acting as the head of the Executive, was a matter of no im portance to this nation ? Could that be urged as an excuse for the delay which had taken place in the production of proof ? Surely not. Would it not be surmised, then, he would ask, that it was not what the Queen had done in Italy, but the fact of her coming over to England that gave rise to the charges in the preamble of this Bill ? And when this Was known, he would ask, as the humble advocate of her Majesty, whether it ought not to operate in favour ofher case ? It was for the framers of this Bill to explain the causes for this delay ; but if the interpretation he had given to the facts were true, then he conceived a consi derable shade would be thrown over the whole transaction in the eyes of their Lordships.— He would now return to the more particular line of observation which he was yesterday - pursuing, on certain parts of the evidence to which he wished to call their Lordships attention, and in so doing, he would endeavour to give them as little trouble as possible. lie would first of all ask how it was that a case of the nature which this had been described to be, should be so long in being proved ?. He had always deemed, that facts were easy of proof in exact proportion to their notoriety. If the case had rested upon midnight transactions, and deeds performed in the depths of privacy, some difficulty might be conceived to hang over the proof. But how did it happen,y, as was stated in the preamble of the Bill, this was a case of the most scandalous noto riety and publicity, that it had been found ne cessary to have recourse to such evidence to prove it, as that of persons peeping through suspicioUs crannies and keyholes of apocryphal or doubtful existence, such as that of the witness from Trieste, who seemed as if he had only been spared for a time from the atonement due tb the offended laws of his country, for the purpose of contributing his talent to the support of this case. The Learned Getitleman pursued this strain of observation for a considerable time, and then re sumed his comments on the evidence of Dumont. Permit me now, said Mr. Williams, to call your Lordships' attention to some of the detached facts, or rather, if I may so say, acts of the case on which the adverse case depends,and to shortly state how and in what manner we propose to meet these cases, or some of them. My Lords, surely the preliminary facts that I have stated to your Lordships, will at once account for its being ex tremely probable that we may not have all the proof in favour of the Queen, which we have reason to believe and know now exists. If power has. been exercised to bring witnesses against her, and they had exercised power to prevent those in her favour coining forward, how hard were the terms her • Majesty had to contend with in this case: My Lords, in addition to that, I am in no condition to state the evidence on be half of her Majesty, and to meet those charges with that detail and with that minutia: it was ex pected should arise from the well-prepared, di ges ted,and concocted briefs of my Learned Friends. Surely, from the sundry examinations which were had abroad and at home, it might be expected that they at least knew well what their wit nesses had to prove. Two witnesses,,indeed, in order to " make assurance doubly sure," had not only been examined, but, contrary to all pre cedent, had been sworn. My Lords, in addition to that, the evidence of her Majesty the Queen is not arranged and corrected. I am not igno rant, my Lords, that probably if the Queen had been pleased to ask it, that a longer period might have been allowed, but I will state to your Lord ships why her Majesty could not allow that de lay to take place. Her Majesty has patience, it has been tried; and she has had abundant opportunities of exercising it. She has for titude, and she has had frequent opportunities of displaying it. But, my Lords, she had not patience or fortitule enough to permit this case to slumber, on that judicial but most unnatural and unphysical equilibrium of all the evidence, and two speeches being in one balance, and no thing at all,,not even the fragment of a sentence or the breath of the Counsel for the Queen in the other ; she wouid not allow them to stop there, and could not ; therefore, her patience and her fortitude, great as they are, were not sufficient to sustain the trial, for the hearing to be all (W one side of the scale. No one, my Lords, can have fortitude enough to blame the Queen for that conduct. That is a reason why it is not to ,be expected from her to give to your Lordships that regular and systematical detail which ought to be given by those who have been pursuing a systematical course for years, and who have power and influence in their possession.. Not withstanding all that, my Lords, I will now come to the points, and I can do it more shortly by reference to particular branches of thk case. I will endeavour taicrasitipw,.shortly as, *ca by, allusion to the different branches of the case, and I will tell what I , believe I shall prove. .First in order, I choose to take it, because I believe, and indeed my Learned Friend informs me that he did not himself largely and amply discuss in his ex amination and inquiry, the case in the polacca.— That was a case which my Learned Friend went over in consequence of this arrangement.—First of all he took a general view of the case, and then he came to examine the particular evi dence of the witnesses, and he in fact overlooked that part. My Lords, as far as our case goes, if we had been called on to select any, we would have selected and chosen that point as the very best and most pleasing for comment upon. Mr. Brougham accidentally omitted it yesterday, and he merely stated this, that it might not be sup posed that he fought shy of that point. There is no part of the case, my Lords, I have more de sire to grapple with, and I will now come to it. On that subject, no part of the examination more assuredly took up more tirlie, none was more pressed or observed upon than the bath. That your Lordships know is proved by Majocci in page 94. You have that perfectly in your me mories, and it is only necessary for me to state, that he made the bath to be taken into the cabi net of the Queen, and that Bergami and the Queen were inside, and that he was on the outside. Now Dumont's evidence does not con firm that, because she in one instance speaks according to her memory of the bath being in the dininz-room, and in the other she knows nothing. The Learned Gentleman then pro ceeded to state that he would call witnesses to prove that the bath was nothing more or less than a tub, and that he would likewise prove it could not be taken into the apartment where Majocci had represented it to have been, as that apart ment, with the other things which were there, could not possibly have contained. it. He should prove what Paturzo had said_ as to Bergami's be- , ing able to see the Princess out of his bed when she was sleeping in her's, to be totally false, and that they could do no such thing. He proceeded to state that he would bring evidence to prove the reason of Bergami's being removed to another bed-room. The truth was, that the change which had taken place in the situation of Bergami's bed was accomplished without her Mdjesty's know ledge, and in consequence of a surgeon having been taken on board at Tunis. With regard to sleeping in the tent, he Would prove that the steersman was all night not a greater distance from it than half a yard, and if there had been any noises he must have heard them. He would prove that an officer who had the charge of the vessel at night used to go by her orders to the tent to inform her of the state of the weather, and where the ship was ; and that when he did so, he used to lift up the awning under which her Ma jesty was sleeping, and that he generally found her lying on a couch with here clothes on. He believed he should prove that the hold of the vessel was always open. He should prove that, after some untoward accident happened, and after some attempts of surprise had been made, the•gueen always thought it necessary to have somebody to - guard her while sleeping. Bat even with a fraction of all this evidence, what became of the evidence of Dumont and Majocci ? It must have occurred to every one as rather sin gular, that not one out of all the other twenty-two persons, said to be on board this vessel, was called. That notable steersman, why was he not called, who could have given such ample confir mation of what Majocci,a discarded servant, had stated ? The very night, the Opera night, when, if any part of what had been stated was to he be lieved, there could be no question might to be imputed the commencement of the adulterous in tercourse, he would bring proof positive in con tradiction of all that had• been advanced. Ac cording to Dumont, her Majesty came early from the Opera on that occasion, appearing much agi tated. As that was only a description of what another person appeared to be suffering, by the expression of the face, when no one too was pre sent to observe, she might safely venture upon that assertion—there she might swear in perfect security. Fortunately for the purposes of justice, and for the safety of the Queen, that night was a most remarkable night. At the Opera, on that evening, was the then. King of Naples, attended by all his Court. The Queen was in a state-box numerously attended by the appropriate attend ants of her rank ; and well did they remember the circumstance, from the length of time which they had to stand ; for the amusement of the Opera did not suffice to beguile.the ennui of per forming that ,ceremony, which they were under the necessity of observing very rigidly, in conse quence of the presence of the Neapolitan Court. They would prove that her Majesty did not quit the Opera until the whole was over, at about one o'clock in the morning of that same Opera night. So much for the earliness of her retiring. Her •Majesty had no bed that night to . sleep in. She slept in none, it appeared, neither on that night, nor on any other, during the whole period of her stay at Naples ; for the small one was not slept in ; the large bed had no linen on it, and, in short, Dumont, through out the whole house, could find no bed for her Majesty to repose in. We, however, said the Learned Gentleman, can supply Dumont's want of memory in that particular, and we shall be able to shew, that the Queen had a bed that night ; for it was not only remarkable on account of the ceremony of standing observed by her at tendants. These remarkable concomitants can not occur on all occasions ; but it so happened, that night, that there was a violent storm of wind, which blew open the casement of her Ma jesty's room ; and we' shall call a witness, who was called by her Majesty, disturbed by the ac cident of the casement, to shut the window. — This witness could prove that the Queen was in ac triti bed. What then,became of this night 0' ( o.hs tery, the whole of the facts of which me'. ,. ire peremptory contradiction ? other of the r io t cipal facts they Would have omb was). pc , Isthmoid about Wm. Austin. A co' moat, he t ala of six or sevenmars ag . . ,w4drawfik jiAt7o4 thliatt4ne.- her MaJe aplitinenta, for no o t her purpose than th it ( bolical construction this witness had placed ha But what would they say of the charitable, nest interpretation-of this fact, if he proved thy ' the boy was then nearly 13 years of age/ i n gt w , climate of Italy, and that his removal wasiscd, gested by another person to the Queen, 01 . a bt Willy took place some time previous t o the nt*of alleged. He should also prove that the dresero, the Queen, as the Genius of History, wa s f d indecent, but quite the reverse, for it CO her whole body up to her chin, and near l y whole of her arms. He should prove that.4' witness, Barbara Kresse, if his ins tructtu t; were to be relied upon, that she was ne person to be believed ; he did not meall)Dsvi, ought not to be believed, not only in her dence against a Queen, but against the 10.141 person in the kingdom. In fact, he should bzlhel forward witnesses who would prove that 514 ought not to be credited on her oath. He 1°,1107' now advert to the evidence as to the Clu e l o , conduct at Charnitz. Bergami had been t°. h t,l spruck for a passport, and returned late at an d Her Majesty was in bed with her clothes 00,3 0$ she wore a fur dress. The snow was on e r e ground at the time, and several persons to, present when he delivered his answer to her 'of. jesty, and when Dumont left the apartttlebe, And the Solicitor-General wished it to be be ( lieved, that at that time 13ergami slept with , Majesty, and committed the crime of a dult 'llo l He would now go to the evidence of Sacc hi /11e swore to his being courier on the journey °f erd Majesty from Carlsruhe. He swore there ark curtains round the carriage, which wer e d r u g' , by the Queen and Bergami, when they were yelling ; and he swore, to make assurance d°o,o, sure, that he saw them through the curtains Mg indecent acts several times. He (Mr. S p, liams) should prove, that the carriage of her ' a l jesty had not curtains at all ; that a Ve t _ f ,'" Or , was in the carriage with her Alajesty and d e r, gami on that journey ; and he should also po .ro by a number of witnesses, that Sacchi ; fa , not the courier who travelled with her it jesty on that journey. He did not thim' it was necessary that he should maki; any col " ° 0 upon these facts. He should satisfactorily P r° o l that the door was opened, for such it was,!Dre not a new door made, as their Lordships 4.11, told, for the purpose of opening a free Cot ti ,"" o t nication from the room of her Majesty to thai ldj Bergami. He should prove that the door opened for the purpose of preventing th e C, 'tb , ney of the room from smoking, or rather for eh o purpose of curing if. He should also prove , ' l it when it was said her Majesty was bathing wa s' Berg.arrsi i at Brachia, that instead of it being f re t river, that it was merely a stream, that was: ba t quently walked over. He should also prove Id le the evidence of Kaganzoni was a fiction, f° l ;,* 4, purpose of traducing the Queen" of these re°,," re 't He should prove that the story about the fig", 0 of our first parents was totally false, for it w 3 ,: 05 e much impossible for him to have seen t i er , figures and the persons of her Majesty and I v 0 gami from the spot where he swore- lie stew° t o it was possible for him (Mr. W.) to swe,a r t i l 'i what was then'doing in the interior of St. Viva from the place where he then stood. If he iise3, proved that whole scenes which these wit ue i cel had sworn had occurred, never had taken P" - e s, but had been invented for wicked Porn to could their Lordships give one iota of cret'beS any single fact which these perjured wrecaci' had sworn ? The Learned Counsel theo.oor verted to the fact of Dumont having kept a • 1 05+ nal during her Majesty's jemmies and voY 3 , of and which journal, according to the letteit.siest that witness, lauded her Majesty to the : to e for every virtue it was possible for a I u.aole being to possess ; and yet, afterwards, sbe t'os forward and deposed to facts as reverse as c ' o r sibie. He should not comment upon suc h t it' duct, it spoke quite sufficient itself wittli t ip s He should proceed, and inform their Lor j3 i"' gi rig that it, was his intention to call Captains 100 and, Pechell before them ; they were P er for whose evidence could he depended uPtilla they were British Officers ; and if he 5 "0 ee 0 prove by their mouths, that during th e 11 10 weeks her Majesty was on board their 5000 at a time when it had been said her fe,e ter towards Bergami were at the height of ° t hat sity, that them conduct was most proper/ l a lie there was no indecent familiarity, c sh ° d ° o' 6 , not give the lie to.the wretches who ha o d forward and sworn to the most aborninab.`%ol‘e filthy profligacy ? In short, that supp os itioa t he re volumes in itself. The Learned Gentle ma t ies; A adverted to the assertion that treason an p er sonable doctrines prevailed among a Il e a il, tion of the community, and referred to ite fe' the thority of Mr. Burke's description of lution in France to shew the justice o f the ; ), ,115 tion. This. being the state of public opi.'.' o l go, implored the House not to pass this 1 31 1 ' d thereby throw a firebrand in what he w° o Lo rd' a magazine of combustible matter. Th eir t r'r ships' favourable verdict might assuage h*,t'y move animosity, and restore the tranq.eiihe the public mind ; and most fervently a c : plore of the Almighty to guide their deo'. cording to the immutable and advisable Pr I11 : , op of substantial , ustice. lar° . Lord GREY rose to make a few rel Cott' some observations that had fallen from t" e r ot e ' ost re sel for the Queen. He considered it ° et ) W e ,s „ rial to learn whether they (the . Con - 0 f prepared to produce proof in suPP °r f cove r t° assertions respecting the interferen ce ° pop; or e ment. He then referred their 1 -‘ Ol. 1 , 0 O r t o the 'evidence of Barbara Kresse, tar' l7 ' l it , that she was compelled, most inv° lun o forille,o d ric come to England by_the Austrian L. g a eoc e te pt while it appeared that und ue ia ere tt° been exercised by the same Governme° edit Aea 4 in gl ti er , veh( out; tin ( if I. oto