The Sun. — London, England, 1855-08-08 00:00:00

was his freedom and independence. Any persons they met with acquainted with these things, no matter to what country they belonged, could not deny that if the Austrian and French troops were withdrawn the autho rity of the Pope would be denied, and the people 'would establish some sort of government more consistent with justice, and admitting some degree of feeling opposite to those odious means adopted by Ecclesiastical Go vernments. If that be the case, what prospect was there, under the present system, that either the Em peror of Austria or the Emperor of France would con sider himself able to withdraw his troops from that place. But, if they should continue there, it was not only as he had said logically a contradiction to the theory that the Pope, in order to be free and exercise due au thority over his Roman Catholic subjects, should have an independent territory, but they were likely to cause a disturbance in the balance of power in Europe ; and, consequently, they could not carry on war againsthns sin, because she occupied her neighbour's territory, whilst they permitted foreign troops in Rome. thereby disturbing the balance of power in Europe. This, he thought, was a subject which the British Government ought to exert their power to prevent. Was it not, he asked, possible for the English Government, in concert with the French Government and with Austria, to devise some system of government for those Roman States consonant to the interests of the people, and have in it the elements of justice. Had the war terminated ks believed it would have been one of the fi rst sub jects to which the Ki n g of Sardinia would have directed the attention of our ally—to ask the assistance of Austria in the task of devising some valuable system of government for the Roman- States, that would enable the Emperor of France and the Em peror of Austria to withdraw their foreign forces, and that foreign power which now prevailed the re . Unhap pily th e y bad no immediate prospects of peace, and therefore it was he called the attention of the Govern or jut to this subject; and he was aw are it wou ld no t b e a i un willing attention, feeling certain that if his friend at the head of the Government could perceive any mode by which he could influence the Government for the benefit of the people of It a ly, an d th a t wou ld p l ace th e m more in accordance with the general interests of Europe and their own happiness be would readily em brace it. He (Lord J. Russell) could not see any great difficulty that ought to prevent the accomplisliurnt of what he had alluded to, but of course he did not enter into the question of the original occupation of Rome by France, nor the title of Austria to the dominions he has occupied. It might be said this was an old subject— hat this beautiful and unhappy land had been subject to oppression rof every kind, and bad never enjoyed that freedom which people of so much genius, of so much in dustry, and of such capacity for the free enjoyment of physical and intellectual pursuits possessed ; but he saw no reason why, because this was an eld grievance it should not be remedied, and he hoped they might all live to see the end of this particular one. They had seen in past years Spain, who bad not been oppressed by foreign powers, make vigorous efforts to improve her government, which she was still making, and he hoped to God so successfully that they might see Spain in the enjoyment of a representative government, which was at present no doubt crushed in Italy by foreign influence. He trusted the voice of England would be raised for the improvement of the present system of Italian government, at the same time checking and controlling that wild spirit of liberty and enthusiasm which Ilazzini and his followers loved to inculcate. After some further general remarks his lordship said he did not consider he should have discharged his duty had he allowed the session to close without commending this subject to the notice of the Government. Mr. WILKINSON said that, no doubt, the sympathies of the people of this country were with the Italians, and Poles, and Hungarians, but the present was not the fitting time to call upon the Government for active interference. He himself regretted the occupation of Rome, but ho could not help thinking that the present position of the Emperor Napoleon might have some connexion with that occupation. He rose, however, principally to refer to what had taken place on a former occasion. He had on Friday last listened almost with dismay to the speech of the right hon. gentle man the member for the University of Oxford, for he had never heard sentiments so astounding uttered by an Eng lishman. (Hear.) That right hon. gentleman had risen in his place, and had drawn disastrous pictures of the re sources of this country, and of France and Sardinia— (hear)—and then proceeded to eulogise, and at the same time give an exaggerated account of, the resources of Rus sia ; and he trusted that there was no other man in that house who would adopt a similar course. With respect to the terms proposed by Austria, and which her Majesty's Government were blamed by the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Gladstone) for not accepting, he (Mr. Wilkinson) bad always understood the opinion of the noble lord to be that those terms ought to have been accepted ; but the noble lord now appeared no longer to entertain that opinion. (No.) When the hon. member for Wick (Mr. Laing) said the whole question turned upon limitation or counterdnise, one thing had struck him forcibly with respect to these terms; and that was, that the proposal for limitation was a tangible plan, while that for establishing a counterpoise seemed to be no plan at all. If Russia was to be allowed to have any number of ships, this country, on the other hand, was to have as many as she pleased; bat it appeared to him that to establish such a state of things required no plan and no agreement of any sort. The noble lord said that a point which had considerable weight with him was that the Turkish ambassador, a man whose opinions commanded great influence, believed the Austrian plan likely to be satisfactory to Turkey, and then he understood the noble lord to add that if such were the case the whole object of the war would be accomplished, and we should no longer have any right to carry it on. (Lord J. Russell.—" No, no.") He understood the noble lord to say, or at all events to argue, that if Turkey were satisfied with the terms of peace proposed we could not call on her to assist us further without subsidising her. Now, he (Mr. Wilkinson) had always thought the protec tion of Turkey was but a means to an end, and that the main object in view was to check Russia in her scheme of aggrandisement. (Hear, hear.) He agreed that it would be improper to carry on this war for one moment after the objects in view were attained, but he could not think thoselobjects were yet attained. Entertaining this be lief, he could not help regretting that the house was about to separate without a distinct expression of opinion on the subject of the continuance of this war, for every vote they had yet come to on this question had been mixed up with some other matter. It appeared to him that the only short and speedy mode of obtaining peace was by the most vi gorous prosecution of the war. He wanted that which the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Gladstone) said it was wicked to desire, namely, success. France and England must fight this out, and succeed they must, or else fail altogether. He (Mr. Wilkinson)jwas one of those who considared that if a firm tone had been adopted at the first the war might have been avoided altogether. Now, however, that we were embarked in the war, there was no middle course, and he could not understand bow any man could doubt the necessity of conducting it most vigorously. The object of the war, as he understood it, was to show to the world that the peace of Europe could not be disturbed unneces sarily, or if it were disturbed, Oat the consequences would fall upon the head of the aggressor. Until this was shown, he believed that the country would never be satis fied. He had attempted to move an amendment in the course of the debate on Friday night, in order to give the house an. opportunity of recording that distinct expres sion of opinion on this subject which he felt wag ne cessary, but, unfortunately, he had been unable to catch the Speaker's eye. Be was precluded now from elicit ing that expression of opinion. owing to the late period of the session, but it was his own conviction that t here was no satisfactory mode of terminating this contest ex cept by such a prosecution of the war as would show that the peace of Europe was not to be disturbed with impunity. Lord J. RUSSELL.—The hon. gentleman has miinn derstood me in two very important particulars. First, ho seems to have understood me to say that the proposals made by Austria at Vienna might be assented to now, which I did not say, and did not mean. I said that I thought those proposals might have ben assented to at that time, but I do not think they could be assented to at the present moment, and. I added that an opportunity for negotiation would perhaps arise in the course of the six months during whl—ch--the recess might last. Again, the hon. member attributed to me th e expression that we could not continue the war if the Turkish Government were of opinion that sufficient terms of peace had been proposed. I (lid not state that, bat very much the con trary. What I did say was, that if we were to continue the war when Turkey was satisfied with the terms of peace,gr it would be necessary not to guarante e loan s, but to . subsidies, in order to enable her to make those efforts re quisite to carry on the war. Lord PALMERSTON.—I do not rise to complain that my noble friend has called the attention of the house to matters of the deepest national importance, and in regard to which he himself when in office took a leading and v. prominent part. It is natural that these great questions should occupy his mind now, when he was then for a time called upon to devote his attention to them, and it is not at all unnatural that at the close of the session, when the probability is that Parliament may not meet again for some months .to come,, he. should avail himself of this opportunity, not only to state his own views but to call upon the Government, as far as they can consistently with their duty, to state what may be their views on the matters to which ho has referred. My noble friend began by speaking of the amount of respon sibility which weighs upon her Majesty's Government. I can assure him that the Government are deeplysensible of the gravity and the importance of that responsibility. No man could have been a party to entering into the gr eat contest in which we are engaged—no man at least ought to have been a party to such a course of policy — wi thout having deeply weighed the gravity of the struggle into which he was about to plunge the country, and without having satisfied his mind th a t the c a use was just, that the motive,were sufficient, and that the sacrifices which he m"ancatalignuetieepoo consider i the country to make were such as a states leer t ought to endure. Sir, there must, indeed, be grave reasens which could induce a man who bad been a party w ith h er Majesty's Government to that line of policy, who had assisted in conducting the war, who had, after fall and, perhaps , unexampled deliberation, agr eed to enter upon the war, who having concurred after that full and mature deliberation in the commencement of the war, had also joined in calling upon the country for great sacrifices in order to continue it, and who had, up to a very recent period, assented to all the measures proposed for its continuance — I sa y there must ind ee d b e grave sons which could induc e a man who had b een se far°lrl; party tothe measures of the Government utterlytoch ge his opinion, to declare this war unnecessary, unjust, and 2n- impolitic, to set before the country all the imagina ry asters with which his fancy could supply him, and toy dis asters and exaggera t e the force of the enemy and the (ITam"" culties of our own position. (Cheers.) Sir, l am not such a man as that. (Hear, hear.) My right hon. Meads my col leagues in the Government are not men of that stamp, an d I therefore in answer to say noble friend, to whom nothing ' that I have jest said in the slightest degree applies, I have to state thather Majesty's Government, fully conscious of the great importance of this contest, fully conscious of the im mense exertions which may be necessary to bring it to a successful terminatio n , are prepared to take upon themselves the responsibility which belongs to their position, and will not be afraid, when Parliament meets again, to render an account of the manner in which that responsibility has been discharged. (Hear.) We are conscious also of the generous support which this house and the country have given to us throughout the exertions which we have felt it our duty to make. Whatever may be the opinions of some few members within theke do not. believe I cau say whatever may be the opinions of some few persons out of the house—because I do not think the opinions we have heard here have any echo at all out of doors—(cheers)— I 4.; THE SUN, LONDON; WEDNESDAY EVI4NINCis AUGUST 8 1855. portunity which may present itself with the view of im proving the condition of the Italian people. It may be in the recollection of many hon. gentlemen that so long ago as the year 1832 the Five Powers,_through their represen- COMPARISON OF ESTIMATE FOR 1854.55, WITH ACTUAL RESULT OF 1852.53. REVENUE. :ter fr colleges. e IteVLDIIO. increase. Th3e-roa tatives'at Rome, did suggest to the Roman Government certain administrative changes which they thought would have materially improved the condition of the population of the Roman States. These recommendations were made, not only by the representatives of England and France, but by those of Russia, Austria, and Prussia, but, unfortunately, at that time they were not adopted. More recently, however, they were partially carried out, and were so far acted upon that a Council of Finance was, I be lieve, established. I am afraid that that Council of Finance has remained a powerless body, for although they have made reports and representations, I am not aware that those re ports and representations have led to any advantageous results. It was also recommended, in connection with the appointment of the Council of Finance, that certain pro vincial and popular assemblies should be constituted, and that the elements of representative government should be so far established that the people might be enabled to make their wishes and feelings known to the Government. The great difficulty which has prevented the adoption of these arrangements has been what is called the secularisa tion of the administrative departments, and that difficulty has not been overcome. My noble friend seems to think thatlif the troops were withdrawn the Italian people would themselves establish a form of government which would be more congenial with their feelings and more conducive to their interests than that which now exists. If such changes could be made with the deliberation and calmness which are calculated to lead to a satisfactory resalt, I would say, " Let the troops'be withdrawn to-morrow, and let the re quisite alterations or improvements be made ;" but, un fortunately, the road from bad government to good go vernment is not always smooth and easy. There are diffi culties in the way, there are dangers which interpose ; there are sometimes evils to be encountered which almost counterbalance the good that is seen in the distance ; and I am afraid that. unless arrangements were previously made, and unless the way was carefully prepared before hand, the sudden introduction of such changes as my noble friend suggests might lead to inconveniences and disturb. ances which no man, I am persuaded, would bo more anxious than himself to avoid. I think, however, I can so far answer for the Government of France—and certainly I can answer fully for the Government of England—as to say that their attention has not been withdrawn from this interesting subject, and that we shall be most anxious to avail ourselves of any opportunity which may present it self in order to promote those benevolent objects to which my noble friend has directed the attention of the house. I am not aware that there is any other topie to which it is necessary for me to refer. I have stated the deep sense of responsibility entertained by her Majesty's Government, our determination to do our best that such responsibility may fall lightly on us, and our consciousness that we shall have to render a strict account to Parliament when it again assembles ; and I will only add that I hope and trust that account will be satisfactory to Parliament and to the country. (Cheers.) Mr. HENLEY deprecated the coniva pursued by the noble lord the member for the city of London ; it was 'calculated to do much harm, and could not be produc tive of any beneficial results. He had on a previous occasion opened up the whole nationalities of Poland and Hungary, and he supposed the present was a sequel to that. (Hear. hear. ) Lord J. RUSSELL believed he had not said one word with respect to Hungary, but had only referred to Poland. _ _ _ 1. °aline:27 : Land revenue Customs Salt Opium th an tl. 27E;',337 76,473 145,727 443,540 59,215 12,171 Tobacco (abolished, 1853; Post-3ffice Stamps Mint 18,955 63,778 Marine and pilotage Judicial fees and fines Revenue of Strait settlements Revenue of C00rg....... Revenue of Nagpore.... Revenue of Pegu, &c... Sale of presents Interest, on arrears Miscellaneous 14,453 14,570 9,142 484 .. 381,413 .. 216,759 10,824 14,998 8,603 2. Other Receipts : Proceeds of estates admini stered by late Registrar- General Proceeds of assets of late Go vernment of the Panjanb Gain by exchanges 11,261 1,333 91,615 Net decrease of revenue Net increaso of expendituro 826,449 1,052,694 226,245 2,868,525 Deterioration of 1854-55 as compared with 1852-53 3,094,770 EXPENDr CURE. Expenditure. Lucrease. Decrease. 1. Payments in Realisation of Revenue: £ £ Charges of collection, drc. Allowances out of revenue by treaty - 24,833 Sinking fund—Tanjore Allowance to village officers, Enamdars, &a. 19,682 Chargesofcollection—Nogpore 506,098 Charges of collection —Pegu, &c 203,738 Payments to claimants on Re gistrar-General 7,031 89,027 Ci 2. vil C a h n a d rg p e o s li i t n India : ical Judicial and police .39,469 Public works, buildings, Ste_ 939,024 Military 918,986 Marine, Indian navy, &c. Charges of Straits settlements 3,972 Mint Interest on debt 3. Charges in England : Dividends on East India Stock Interest on home debt steam communication with India Ditto for extended communi cation to her Majesty's Go vernment Transport of troops and stores Furlough and retired military pay Ditto marine ditto Her Majesty's troops in India Retiring pensions, &c., of her Majesty's troops Charges—general (home esta blishment, &c.) . 1:0,457 Absentee allowances to civil servants .6,823 Annuities of Madras Civil Ser vice Fund Retiring pay—St. Helena esta blishment Establishment in China Expense of transportation of convicts Arms to her Majesty's troops going to India Invoice of stores 36,003 Z 1,917. 51,699 62,418 3,893 46,203 Mr. HENLEY then wont on at some length to decry the curse pureued by the noble lord the member for the city of London, expressing his regret that the matter had been brought forward, and it was in fact only throw in.- out the apple of discord for vo real ostensible object. Th 3 Appropriation Bill was then read a third time and passed. PUBLIC HEALTH (No. 2) BILL. _ _ _ _ _ _ This bill, on the motion of Sir B. HALL, passed through all its stages. and was read a third time and passed. CHARITABLE TRUSTS BILL. The house then went into committee on this bill, re. suming at the 22d clause. 6,240 87,334 The SOLICITOR•GENERAL said that as there was so limited a period of time at the disposal of the house that morning for the full and proper adjustment of the clause, so as to suit the expressed views of the hon. members who had already spoken, he would 'consent for the present, though he should do so reluctantly, to with draw the clause. (Hear, hear.) The clause was accordingly omitted. Clauses 23 to 34, inclusive, were agreed to without opposition. Some further ones having also been adopted without much discussion, it being 10 minutes to 4 o'clock, The house resumed, and the CHAIRMAN reported proaresr. The house then adjourned until six o'clock. Total 3,367,480 498,650 Net increase Note— Excess of income over expen diture, 1852-53 404,257 Excess of expenditure over in come, 1854-55 2,670,518 few front the public schools. Of those who obtained ap- ! per Cent. Loan was at par, and pending the conversion it n , intmeut4, eight were from Oxford, six from Cannbridgo, l rereained at par. Now, it sucee,ii was to be considered as the Tr4,l , I , Ast of the vlLtac.: of a suneme, there could be no doubt am satisfied that the gr eat ma j orit y of this house, as proved by the votes they have come to on the subject, are faithful representatives of the madly spirit of the country, and that the confidence of this house and the support of the country will be given to any Government, whoever they may be, who, in the conduct of the great struggle in which we are now engaged, may perform the duties which devolve upon them to the best of their ability, and in ac cordance with the determined will of the people. My noble friend has made some remarks upon the operations of the war and in reference to the terms of peace, but it cannot be expected that her Majesty's Government should enter into any explanations either upon ono head or upon the other. It would bo most unfitting, and would obvi ously tend to defeat the policy of the country, if we were to throw out a sketch of what we thought might be accom plished in the prosecution of the war, and what would be the terms of peace upon which we thought the contest might be terminated with safety to the country. (Hear.) The operations of war must in their nature be dependent upon circumstances that may arise in the prosecution of the war, and it is unnecessary to state to any man that to announce our intentions would be to lay tho ground of de feat. The conditions of peace must depend upon the circumstances under which negotiations may be begun, and upon the success which either party in the war may have obtained at the moment when negotiations are commenced. (Hear, hear.) There is, however, one point to which my noble friend adverted which calls for some remark. I refer to the opinion which he seems to have entertained that the Turk ish Government had no objection to accept the Austrian proposals, but that their opinion was overborne by a con trary decision upon the part of the Governments of England and France. My noble friend must know far better than I can what was the personal opinion of the Turkish represen tative at Vienna upon that matter. I can only say that I have no reason whatever to believe or suppose that the Turkish Government differed in opinion from the Govern ments of England and France as to the necessity of not accepting the proposals to which my noble friend refers. No doubt, if the time should arrive when the Turkish Go vernment might imperatively think that certain conditions were consistent with their future security, their opinion ought to have considerable weight when the Governments of England and France might be called upon to discuss the conditions of peace. At the same time, a remark from the hon. member for Lambeth ought not to be lost sight of —namely, that the objects for which the war was under taken were too wide and important to depend solely upon the decision of the Turkish Government. The war was un dertaken, not only for the protection of Turkey, but, as the hon. gentleman well observed, as a means to an end. No doubt the protection of Turkey, as a question affecting the balance of power in Europe, was an object for which it was the duty of the other Powers of Europe to contend; but beyond the protection of Turkey lies the still greater ques tion of the grasping ambition of Russia--an ambition which no man has more forcibly or more fully explained than my noble friend, himself, and which aims at the moral and physical subjugation of the continent of Europe, and the extinction of those principles of political and commer cisl liberty upon which the independent existence of the kingdoms of Europe must mainly depend, (Hear, hear.) Therefore, I am not prepared to say hat it ought to rest with the Government of Turkey to decide what are the conditions which it would be consistent with the futu re security and the permanent peace of Europe to accept, ut the Governments of England and France have as great, and perhaps a greater. interest in that question than the Government of Turkey itself. (Hear, hear.) Their enlightened views on questions of European policy are more likely to be right than even the views of the Turkish Government, but there is no reason to suppose that any difference of opinion is likely to occur. (Hear s 'hear.) I can only say that, up to the present moment, there has been, and I trust that it may continue, a perfect unani mity and concord between the Governments of England, France, and Turkey. (Hear.) In mentioning the Govern ment of France, I must express my entire concurrence in the remarks of my noble friend as to the perfect sincerity, the cordial friendship, and the entire unity of opinion which prevail between the Governments of England and Franco. (Cheers.) Indeed, upon this great question the two Governments may be said to form but one Cabinet, some of the members of which are sitting in London and some in Paris. There is a perfect unity of opinion and a perfect unity of purpose, and I cannot but anticipate that the entire union which exists between the two countries must in the end accomplish the great object for which they have united. (Hear, hear.) My noble friend has called attention to the fact that hitherto we have not been os successful as we expected in carrying into execution the power which Parliament gave us before Christmas of en listing foreign troops for the reinforcement of the armies of England and France. My noble friend has adverted to the cause of our failure in that respect, and, though I have no desire at present to go back to former debates, I Mu.st say that it has been mainly owing to the unfavourable impression which was produced upon the minds of men on the continent by the difficulties which were thrown in the way of the Foreign Enlistment Bill in its progress through the two Houses of Parliament that the Govern ment have been prevented from carrying out that measure successfully. (Hear, hear.) We are now, however, raising troops under the provisions of that law with greater rapidity than hitherto, and I trust that before the autumn sets in we shall be able to send consider able reinforcements to our army in the East. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the great war in which we are engaged. I have nothing more to say, except that her Majesty's Government feels that it is their duty to carry on that war by all the means which Parliament has placed • at their disposal; and I trust that when Parliament meets again the manner in which we shall be found to have per formed our duties will insure for us that confidence which Parliament has hitherto so generously reposed in us. I will now, sir, refer to the other topics to which my , noble friend has adverted. My noble friend has called the at tention of the house to the state of Italy. That is, no doubt, a very painful topic, but my noble friend has ad verted to one bright feature in it—namely, the conduct of the kingdom of Piedmont, and he most justly dilated upon the admirable example which has been set by the King of Piedmont. (Cheers.) Tholcourse pursued by that kingdom has shown us that there is in Italy a people wise enough to know the value of constitutional institutions, and how to work them well when they have obtained them. (Hear, hear.) The present position of Piedmont is unexampled in the history of Europe. We have seen many countries which, after possessing an arbitrary Government, have suddenly obtained representative institutions, but for years and years the want of previous practice and expe rience has rendered those institutions unavailing for any practical purposes in the promotion of rational liberty. That has not been the case in Piedmont. There the people almost appear as though they had enjoyed for centuries the excellent institutions which they have only recently obtained. (Hear.) Instead of sacrificing their time in• party strife and conflict they have exhibited the vigour of the earlier periods of constitutional government, and while the people have shown, upon the one hand, a wis dom and steadiness of purpose that will dignify them iu the history of Europe, upon the other hand thy have had the good fortune to be ruled by a Sovereign who pro perly understands and appreciates the real power and dignity of his position. (Cheers.) He has respected the, institutions which the country has obtained, and in the ' exalted position in which he is placed he has set an ex ample to his people which it is impossible to praise too highly. It is only natural that such a people and such a monarch should view with painful anxiety the condition of other parts of Italy, a condition as deplorable as my noble friend has described. (Hear) In ninny parts of Italy, and especially in the Roman States, events have occurred which afford a painful contrast to what has been passing in the kingdom of Sardinia. (Hear, hear.) Foreign in fluence in all countries is fatal to the well-being . of the people, but foreign influence maintained by arms is still worse than foreign influence maintained simply by politi cal ascendancy. (Hear.) Unfortunately, in Italy both have had their. effect. (Hear.) In the kingdom of Naples we see the ascendancy of a foreign political influence (for it is in vain to disguise the fact that the influence of Rus sia is preiceninantin that kingdom), and we see also an example of the manner in which the political influence of Russia reigns supreme in a country separated from the Russian empire by large tracts of land. (Hear.) Upon more occasions than one the Government of Naples have shown their hostility to England and France by prohibit ing the exportation of articles which their neutrality did not warrant them in prohibiting, and lan sorry, to add that there have been acts of cruelty and oppression re cently committed by that Government which really do not belong to the age in which we live. (Hear.) On the other hand, the protection which in the Roman States is afforded by the French and Austrian occupation to the Government naturally, perhaps, increases the ability of that Govern ment to commit acts which are not in accordance with the feelings of the people of this country ; but the house will, I am sure, perceive that these are topics of great difficulty and delicacy. (Hear.) There cannot at the present mo ment be anything less desirable for the interests of this country than that discussions should take place in this house, or that any proceeding+ should be adopted by her Majesty's Government. which would tend to cast even a shade of coldness over the relations existing between this country and France on the one hand. or Austria on the other. Without entenng into the motives which led to the occupation of Rome, or to the effects of that occupation— one of Which, however, has been to insure tranquillity—l may observe that the discipline of the French troops during their occ u p a ti on o f It a l y h as no t b een i mpugne d , h ut, on the contrary, their conduct has been most exemplary. With regard to the French occupation, the house is proba bly aware that the number of the occupying troops, instead of having been increased, has been materially reduced. The Austrian occupation of Tuscany has altogether ceased. garrison,.iveru e b n a t t mo t f ha t Tuscany gar Until v ery recently Florence was occupied by an Austrian has isonb b a n s en be l en ft t w o i r th es d t ra u w po n n , : i i t u s d on the resources. I k now a report has been e prevalent that the' Austrian force s in Italy have recently been considerably augmented, but lodno the not believe th ere i s an y f oun d a ti on for that repo r t. her Majesty's Government c ontrary, from inf orma ti on w hi c h pears that altho ug h a f ew tho have received very lately, it ap usands of Austrian troops— the number being vario a pi replaced an equal number of Itaglitories, 6,ooo—have entered the Itarian st ti they have only at 4,0 , J0, 5,000, and troops to whom, in certain l period has actual number the usual course, leave of absence for' been given. I believe, therefore, tha n t a augmeeillit.etioiof of Austrian troops in Italy has not been increased . lam unable to say whether there has been any the number of troops in Ancona or not, but I b the aggregate number of men under arms iu the territor y th at is not larger than it has been for some time past, and aa persuaded any notion which may prevail that Austria is changing her policy with regard to the allies, and is pre paring for a course of action in Italy incompatible with her relations with England and France, is utterly un founded. Whether Austria, at a future time, prompted by regard for her own interests, may or may not find her self in a condition to take the field in conjunction with England and France, of one thing I am perfectly satisfied —that we shall not see Austria take the field against Eng land and France, and in concert with Russia. My noble friend has said he thinks her Majesty's Government ought to take advantage of any circumstances which may from time to time arise with the view of e ndeavouring—either through the Governments of France and Austria, •or without them, according to the state of things—to ame liorate the condition of that fine country which he has. co well and so justly described. It must be painful to every man to see a great people—for I must call the It a l ians a great people—(hear)—endowed by nature with the highest qualities—(cheers)—capable of becoming, as they were in formes times, models in everything that elevates and digni fies human nature, debarred by the accidental circumstances of their p o liti ca l con diti on f rom pursu i ng a caree r which w ould ennoble them a s a gre a t na tion i n the e s timation of the w or l d. It must, therefore, be the object of every Bri tish a t . atesman—as it was, upon a e forae r r fe o r ccas e ion n , i the o t b- Jed of lily right hon. friend th e career, and one more of Oxford— th versi y not only to alleviate the memb e r pressure which now weighs upon the Italians, .butto open to them a noble which they have congenial with the high qualities with bees o endowed by nature. My noble friend must be aware which has exia t e z o d r ifficult it is to alter a state of thingshim and the house that her many years ; but I can assure which Government are ani mated by the same feelings he has expressed, and ' that they will avail themselves of any fair and proper op- The house resumed at six o'clock. Lord PALMERSTON stated, in answer to Mr. Vin cent Scully, that there was no intention to add a batta lion each to the three regiments of Guards. Mr. STAFFORD moved for copies of reports from the different hospitals connected with the army and navy in the Black Sea, and for copies of any reports sent home by Sir John 'MiNeill, the sanitary commissioner to the army. He justified the disclosures which had been made of the unnecessary sufferings of the army, without which, he said, their sufferings would have ,been still worse. He quoted extracts from evidence of several staff and regi mental surgeons to show the frightful evils which existed in the army about Christmas last. He quoted, also, the suggestions they made for an improvement of the sys tem, and asked the Government whether they had adopted those suggestions. Mr. PEEL, in reply to the statements of the hon ourable gentleman,'-ntered into some details with re gard to the state of the hospitals in the Crimea, and first he stated that an impartial commission had been ap pointed to inquire into the condition of the hospitals on the 18th of June. At present there were few sick or wounded either in the military or civil hospitals, and the reason was that there was little sickness in the army. They had, however, made great provision for emergen cies, and he hoped they would always continue to be beforehand with these contingencies. He hoped and be lieved Sebastopol would fall this summer ; but the Go verninent did not trust too much to that, but had made provision for the army to winter again in the Crimea. With respect to the military medical department, he stated that it was intended to appoint a head over every separate department, such as the purveyor's branch, the apothecary's, &c., and that over all a military medical chief should be placed. With regard to the motion, he had no objection to give the ordinary medical reports asked for. The motion, amended in some of its points, was then acceded to. THE INDIAN BUDGET. Mr. V. SMITH moved that tho papers and accounts which had been presented to the house during the present session in relation to India, be referred t 3 a committee of the whole house. . The motion having been agreed to, the house went into committee. Mr. V. SMITH proceeded to say that the lateness of the period at which he rose to make the usual statement was not owing to any up willingness on his own part to makeit earlier, or teeny want of industry in the department over which he presided, but to the pressure of other business, and to the unwillingness of the Opposition to postpone their criticisms on the conduct of the Government in relation to other matters. A pledge was given by his predecessor that the accounts should be presented much earlier, but owing to the causes to which he referred he feared that it would neither be in his (Mr. V. Smith's) power norin that of any one who might succeed him to redeem that pledge. A. great deal of misapprehension had arisen from the applica tion of a misnomer to the statement he was about to make. It had been called a budget ; but, unlike the statement to which that term was usually applied, it hail reference only to the finances of past years, and that must continue to be the case unless the House of Commons were prepared to rescind the whole constitution of India. and to assume the direction of affairs which was now left in the hands of the Court of Directors and the Board of control. At the same time ho was far from denying that it was desirable that the accounts shoed be produced nt an earlier period of the session. He observed that the hon. member for Manchester had placed on the books a notice that he intended to move that the accounts should in future be made up to the end of October, instead of the end of April. He believed that could not be done without a complete derangementof the accounts of India as they were at present settled. (Hear, from Mr. Bright.) Such an alteration would tend to confuse the ac counts, which were kept on a system of double entry. His predecessor had told the house that he was endeavouring to accelerate the transmission of the accounts from India. This had, in fact, been done, and the accounts now extended only two years back: On this subject he might refer to a despatch which had been sent to India with the concur rence of the Court of Directors, calling for the transmis sion of the accounts at an earlier period. The effect of this despatch was that the Government' might be enabled next April to present accounts extending up to April, 1855. On the other hand, if the hon. gentleman's proposal were car ried out, the effect would be to remove them el; months backward instead of forward ; for he did not' believe it: to be possible that accounts made up to. October, 1855, could ho sent home in time for presentation in April, 1856. Now, following the example of his predecessor, he should proceed to present to the house a statement of Indian finances for the years 1852-3. The right hon. gentleman then proceeded to read the following accounts : INDIAN FINANCE-4852-53. £ £ £ £ £ I. Bengal— Net revenue 8,158,809 Local charge 2,037,561 Local surplus ---6,121,248 North-Western Provinces — Revenue 5,636,169 Local charges 1,362,030 Local surplus —4,274,339 Mility. charges ' of Bengal and North- Westn. Provinces 5,607,866 Net revenue of ditto — 13,795,178 Charges of ditto 9,607,457 Surplus avail able for general purposes of In. ..... . ....... 11. Illadras—.. Net revenue Charges. Surplus avail able for general purpos3s of In dia 111. Bombay—. Net. revenue Charges. Deficit Total revenues of the several Presidencies Total charges of ditto Total surplus or ditto Interest on In dian debt Charges defray ed in England Total charges on Indian rev& -1,787,721 3,727,536 3,263,578 --- 458,958 2,828,565 2,941,528 112,963 - 2),251,279 - 10,273,563 - ---5,133,716 - 2,011,971 2,697,438 nues --• Surplus of in come over ex penditurom,„ r! 42407 qualities on the other. He regretted that viva voce examination was not adopted, as it was calculated to elicit the moral qualities. (Hear.) Ninety of the candidates could write in Latin, 85 in Greek, 63 in French ; 53 were examined in moral science, and upwards of 100 passed creditably in English and English history. It was a very pleasing subject to contemplate so large a number of young men of talent taking such pains, and with such success, to qualify themselves for the civil service of the country. Tt was proposed to establish a new system of education in. India, under a director of public instruction, with 14 di rectors under him, regulating the three presidencies. Lord Dalhousie stated that this system was now in full opera tion. The right hou. gentleman then adverted to the navi gation of the Godavery, which ho said was of great import ance, and as to which the Government were making every exertion ; and there would be every disposition to make equal exertions in similar cases of other rivers. Having now gone through all the various topics of finance and po litics, the right hon. gentleman raid ho should advert to the petition from Madras, which adverted to the old disputed question of the government of India. Into that great ques tion he could not then, however, enter. He was favour able to the principleof" doublegovernment;" and although he had for many years devoted his attention to Indian affairs, be fully felt the value of the co-opei ation of the Court of Directors. Nor did he believe that any one occupying his office would be likely to lean too much upon them, while he would find their aid invaluable. No doubt there wore anomalies and absurdities in the present system ; but these were small objections to the system, and of no practical con sequence. On the other hand, great practical advantage re sulted from it. For instance, in the selection of a Governor for India, how immense was the responsibility. It was one of the most difficult selections to be made. An able man might be selected, who yet might be intoxicated with power, and commit extravagances. -In such a selection it was important to have the sanction of such a body as the Court of Directors. Under their auspices the selection' of Lord Canning was, he believed; most for tunate. The power of the Governor-General was nearly absolute ; but his noble friend was not a man to be led away by it into any schemes of conquest. His noble friend would rather endeavour to develops the resources of India, and would recollect that the illustrious name he bore was associated with rational liberty and with the principles and institutions of a free people. (Cheers.) A resolution having been proposed pro forma , Mr. BRIGHT said, giving credit to the right hon. gen tleman for the desire to do good in his office (and he had not been in it long enough to do harm), yet there was great reason to complain that the subject should be brought for ward at such a period of the session when no one was pre sent. And if the right hon. gentleman was in office next year (if it was not too muck to suppose, it), next to the question of peace and war, there was no subject of such importance as that of Indian finance. (Hear.) It was not an Indian, but an English question. The late Sir R. Peel had said most truly that any embarrassments in Indian finance would tell upon English finance. And, in point of fact, the debts of India were really the debts of this coun try. The statement of the right hon. gentleman was far from favourable, and far more so than the facts warranted. For he (Mr. Bright) believed that the future had in store for us in Indian finance very great troubles. He disputed the statements of the right bon. gentleman, and Eel:eyed that Indian finance was extremely confused. In Oct.. 1853, the cash balances had fallen from 17,000,000/. to 13,000,0001. That was the time chosen for conversion of the Five per Cent. Stock, 24,0'0 0001. in amount. In the year the cash balances fell down to 7,500,000/. The Government, finding themselves falling into the abpss of bankruptcy, projected a new loan of 5 per cent., with a guarantee of 15 years. He suspected that dishonest means had been resorted to in 1853 to keep up false balances, and bolster up credit. In 1853 the enormous balances acted certainly as a detention, and proved merely temporary. The true question as to the conversion of stock, was as to the value of money at the time. But it was believed in India that the balances were actually lying idle and un appropriated, so that the effect of their being found miss ing would not be to diminish the resources of the Govern ment ; in short, that there was a large surplus revenue of several millions.—(Mr. Mangles denied this.)—lf the hon. member denied this, he could prove it from the pages of the Friend of India, edited by Mr. Marshman. (Thehon. member quoted from it the expression, "plethora of riches," being_the most remarkable.) This was in May, 1853; and the impression evidently was that there was plenty of money—" a balance of 16,003,000/. in the Trea sury" beim . distinctly stated. (Hear.) The false impression s was most improperly created that the 16,000,0001. was a disposable surplus. If the Government were parties to it they were most blameable. He would ask the Presi dent of the Board of Control to observe that from June, 1853. to April, 1855, the balance in the Indian Exche quer had fallen not less than 10.000,000/. sterling. On the 20th December. 18M, a letter was addressed to the Government of India to the effect that in the event of a loan being required for public works in India, " our consent"--that was to say the consent of the Court of Directors and the Board of Control—must first be obtained thereto. But that regula'don had been set aside by Lord Dalhousie. A loan had been since contracted without any reference whatever to the Court of Directors and the Board of Control, and on the announcement of that loan the value of Indian Stock fell not less than 16 per cent. The loan of which he spoke was called a public works loan, to make it appear in this country as if it were to be devoted to public works in India; but he was afraid that it was not entitled to that name, for no facts whatever had been adduced to justify its being so described ; and whereas the statement made by Sir C. Wood, when President of the Board of Control was, that the expenditure for public works in India for the last five years amounted to 3,152,000/., according to Mr. Grant the expenditure was upwards of 9,000,000 1 ., being a difference between the two statements of 6,000,000'. The fact was that the construction of civil and military buildings had been treated as public works, which was an utter absurdity, for such works were . not public works in the proper accepta- Men of the term. To call this loan a public works loan was altogether a delusion ; and if the Government got a six pence of the money from anybody in India who fancied that it was to be laid out upon reproductive objects, he (Mr. Bright) begged to say that they would be obtaining that sixpence under false pretences. The truth was that we wanted a radical reform in the whole matter of Indian finance; in the mode in which the accounts were kept, and in the mode in which, and the time when, they were placed before the house and the English public. If there was one thing more than another which it was the interest of the Government. to do, it was to have no secresy respect ing their finance. (Hear:) If the Government of India had regard to its own interests alone it would abolish this sys tem of secrecy •, and the bringing up in 1855 estimates of money which bad been spent in 1853. The hon. eentletne.n read a letter signed by the chairman of the Madras Chamber of Commerce. recommending regular periodical publications of the publicaccounts of India, and deprecating any secrecy upon so important a subject. He asked why, with a revenue of 30,009,f.00/., they ought not to have a Chancellor of the Exchequer for India instead of the present system by which there was a kind of divided authority between three or four individuals, whose state ments as to the accounts of India were better calculated to mystify than to explain matters. He must urge the com mittee to accept the resolution which he had placed before them. The right hon. gentleman uttered a fine panegyric upon the new Governor-General of India. He (Mr. B.) was not going to detract from the merits of Lord Can ning. He always judged the noble lord as being a man full of good intentions, laborious, and generally well qua lified for the performance of the duties he undertakes. He would, however, tell him that the question of the finances of India was at the bottom of the prosperity of India. If the country were governed by ordinary economy and ordinary prudence there oneht to be a surplus revenue. The fact, however, was, that at the present moment there .was a heavy debt against India. He would advise Lord, Canning to keep clear of getting into hostilities, and to' avoid the example of Lord Dalhousie, who plunged the country into a war upon the most flimsy and ridiculous pretext. He did not want then to go into the opium or the salt question; but he had ascertained from a gentleman who had recently arrived in this country that the opium trade bad occasioned the most fearful results in China. As to salt, he said a taxation based upon a principle so econo mically wrong and bidennelycruel, must be bad, and ought to be put an end to by the Government. In reference to the cruelties practised in India, he appealed to the committee whether the inquiry that had taken place had riot borne out the statements which had been made as to the prac tice of the most frightful enormities in that quarter ; although the hon. member for Honiton (Sir J W. Hogg) and the member for Guildford (Hr. Mangles) hall endea 'voured to cast ridicule upon his hon. friend the member for Poole (Mr. D. Seypeour), when he rose in that house to 3 expose the system of cruelty and oppression. He was anxious that England and Eegland's Parliament should spread a brighter picture of India before the world than they had as yet done. He believed that by a complete change of system. India would attain a position of the highest eminence and prosperity; and that the Govern ment that would carry out such a change would achieve for themselves an imperishable renown. (Hear, hear.) Sir J. W. HOGG said the hon. member for anchester never referred to Indian affairs that he did not attack, not only the conduct, but also the motives of those who took part in the Government of India. The hon. gentleman had referred to his (Sir J. W. Hogg) holding office and reaping large revenues from India; But he should say what he made he made by his own industry and ability. He had not a single friend when he landed on the banks of the Ganges. Yet he worked his way with industry and perse verance ; and when he took office finally he took it for the ease it afforded, though in doing so he sacrificed much of his emolument. -(Hear, hear.) He admitted in the broadest manner that cases of torture were to be found in India. In Madras, with a population of 22,000,000, after the issue of a proclamation by the government for information on the subject, 384 applications were made of a personal character and 425 of a written character—not 30 great a number after all, considering a population-of 22,000,000. The finding of the commission admitted that personal violence was prac tised by officials in the collection of revenue, and in police cases; but it also added that they (the commissioners) were bound to state their opinion that the practice had oflato years been decreasing, as well in amount of suffering as in extent. He would now approach the subject of finance relative to which the hon. member for Manchester was somewhat more tranquil. He (Sir J. Hogg) was certainly not as expert in the arcane of figures as the hon. gentleman ; still he had made no allegation against the Court of Directors which he was not able to refute; though it must be acknowledged it was rather difficult to follow the hon. gentleman through. out his statement, for he kept quoting everywhere, right and left, first from the hon. gentleman the President of the Board of Control, and then from the Friend of India; culling from each according as it suited his purpose. The hon. gentleman commenced his statement relative to this part of the subject by pointing to the largeness of the balances retained in the Indian treasury, and to the ex treme variation which they underwent. Now he (Sir J.H.) was sorry to be obliged to admit that to carry on the ma chinery of the government of India it was indispensable that there should be, in the different treasuries spread through out India, balancesto the amount of between 9,000,030/. and 10,000,000/. sterling, which lie there, he readily alto ved, perfectly unproductive. That necessity arose, in great mea sure, on account of the enormous payments that had to be made, the difficulty of transport throughout such an im mense extent of territory, and from all the payments having to be made in silver. He believed, however, that the day was not far distant when the requisite balances would not amount to more than 4,000,000/., and that would be when India enjoyed the advantage of railway communica tion. A4ul the very necessity of maintaining such large balances explained, in great measure, the fact of their so greatly varying. And now for the matter of the loan, which he certainly was prepared to slefond. The hon. gen tleman the President of the Board of Control had, however, declared that night that it was not his duty to defend the loan. Now, he (Sir J. Hogg) would tell him that it was his duty to defend the Governor-General of India if he was in the right, and it was his duty to denounce him if he was in the wrong. Now, what was the state of the Four per Cents, at the time of the loan ? At that time the Four 1 to the Five per Cent. lesan, he would say at once the real question was, ought the Government to have foreseen the causes which rendered it necessary to open such a loan? Well, here were the circumstances under which it was negotiated ? In the first place, it was discovered, after an estimate duly sketched, that there would be a deficiency fey the current year in the revenue over the expenditure of nearly 2,000,0001. About fay 1, the balances through out India would be reduced to a sum of 8 000,0001., the balances in the Calcutta Treasury being perfectly exhausted, while at the same time the rate of money was so high that the Bank of. Bengal was cliargiag 11 per cent. upon the deposit of Government Securities. Then the Russian war broke out, which had the effect here of driving Consols down nearly 10 per cent, while this very loan was at a discount of only 5 per cent. Again, tho hon. gentleman was quite right in stating that theGsvernment of India had become alarmed, and consequently deemed that some precautions were necessary. Now, in the preced ing six weeks, the Home authorities had drawn upon India bills to the amount of 2,000,0001. sterling. Well, with bills drawn upon them to such an extent—with an empty exchequer •at Calcutta with a deficiency of 7,000,0001. in the balances, and the rate of exchange rising every day—in ,presence, also, of the fact that the demand for public Works during the preceding years exceeded the amount of the loan, while the demand far this year was actually great e r, there also came out to India the despatch containing the order of July, 1854, from the Court of Directors, that the Government was to proceed with the public works, and was to meet the ex penditure out of the balances in hand. Well, under such circumstances the Government of India felt that they were necessitated to raise a loan at 5 per cent. without the knowledge or approval of the Court of Directors. That approval, however, had not since been withheld, and in stead of reprobating the governor and council, the Court of Directors had commended them for what had been done as being the best under the circumstances. The hon. gentleman the member for Manchester had treated in a most cavalier manner the statements of gentlemen of the highest position, and connected with India. He had spoken thus of Mr. James Bell, of Mr. Doran, who might be said to have occupied the post of a Chancellor of the Exchequer under Lord Ellenborough's administration ; and of Mr. Peacock, a gentleman who formerly occupied one of the most distinguished positions at the English bar. The next question which the hon. gentleman touched upon was the effect of our annexations upon the revenue. Now, in 1852, the annexation of Pegu took place ; and for 1852- 53, the revenue was only 4,6581.; for 1853-54, it was 124,116'.; while for 1855 it was 216,7191. With respect to the time of making the Indian financial statement in that house, he could assure the hon. gentleman the member for Manchester that he was as anxious as the hon. gentleman himself that that statement should be made at an early period of the session ; and he should add, that he was as unable as the hon. gentleman to understand why a night might not be devoted at the commencement of the session to the consideration of that most important subject. He pledged himself, that as far as he was concerned, he would do everything in his power to have the Indian accounts brought down to the latest possible moment. (Hear, hear.) Mr. J. G. PHILLIMORE said he believed that the speech of the hon. baronet who had preceded him con sisted mainly of an attempt to mystify the house in respect to as cruel a case of oppression as had ever been brought under the notice of a deliberative assembly. Ho confessed, that with regard to the question of the loan, it seemed to him the hon. baronet had succeeded to a considerable ex tent in placing that matter on a more favourable footing than that on which it had been left by the hon. member for Manchester. But he contended that the statement of the hon. baronet in reference to the tortures inflicted by the police of India-on the unfortunate natives was utterly unsatisfactory, and even inexcusable. The commissioners themselves stated that, among the principal tortures re sorted to in those cases, were the following :—Twisting ropes around the arms and legs, lifting up by the mous tachioe, searing with red-hot irons, placing insects on the most sensitive paits of the body, beating with sticks, and putting pepper in the eyes. These were facts reported by the commissioners, and those were practises of which the hon. baronet thought it sufficient to say that they were exceptional cases. Why of course they were ,exceptional cases, and could only be exceptio-table in the most barbarous and brutal country in the world ' • but that was no answer to the charge that they were ever tolerated. (The hon, and learned gentleman here read from the evi dence taken before the commissioners other passages, which went to show that the utmost violence, fraud, and cruelty were practised by the police in India.) Another subject to which ho thought it his duty to advert was the continuaece of the salt tax, which he could not help regarding as one of the most impolitic and most odious of imposts. He earnestly hoped that the right hon. gentleman the PI esi 'dent of the Board of Control would take the necessary steps for insuring at the earliest possible moment the aboli tion of that tax. He believed also that a reform in the judicial tribunals of India was imperatively demanded. The union of the offices of judge and of revenue collector in the same person was a source of the grossest abuses, and necessarily led to the habit of entrusting to the 'most incapable hands the discharge of the most difficult and im portant duties. Allusion had been made in the course of that discussion to the embarassad condition of the In dian finance; and upon that subject ho should observe that it appeared to him the embarassment in question must be owing in some measure to the number of officials in our Indian possessions who received extravagantly largo salaries. He thought that we were deeply culpable its re garded much of our past conduct in India, but ,he was willing to hope, from the speech of the right hon. gentle man that evening, that we were at length about to begin to discharge the long arrears which had accumulated against us in that unhappy country. Mr. OTWAY said he feared that a desire for the an nexation of new territories had of late years been increas ing among the members of the Government of India. He believed it would be found that under the adminis tration of Lord Dalhousie more territory had been an nexed to our Indian empire than by some five or six of the Governors-General who had preceded him. There was one remark in the speech of tli right honourable gentleman the President of the Board of Con trol which he considered as a most ominous one, because it led him to apprehend that the Governor General had al ready cast his eye on the territory of The King of Oude, with a view to its annexation. He earnestly trusted, how ever, that the right hon. gentleman would give the noble lord to understand that such a measure, which was opposed to 'the policy recommended by our greatest Indian states men, would not meet with his approbation. On the subject of Indian finance generally, and more especially in refer ence to the outlay on public works, he found it very dif ficult, if not impossible, to arrive at any definite conclu sion. He understood that the difference between the sum stated by the right. honourable baronet the present First Lord of the Admiralty and that stated by Mr. Grant to have been expended on public works in India amounted to not less than 6,000,0001. Ho not only ob jected to the amount expended upon public works, but to the manner in which it had been laid out. The pub lic roads made were very few, and the number of rail roads much smaller than they ought to be. The works chosen to be carried out were badly chosen, and there had been especial neglect in the development of water commu nication in India. The hon. gentleman the member for Hoditon said that the number of letters in answer to the notification of the commissioners was very few, and that there had been no complaints with regard to the conduct of Europeans; whereas the commissioners reported that in the space of three months there had been 959 complaints. The hen; member for Roxburghshire said that the thumb-screw was not used in India ; but there was a mass of testimony to show that the police used that engine of torture to a large extent to extort confessions, and a number of mis sionaries testified to the employment of that torture to compel the ryots to pay their taxes. It was proved beyond doubt that this horrible torture had been resorted to, and with the cognisance of the European authorities; and he trusted that it would not again be attempted to contra dict such testimony. In the Madras presidency the prac tice was universal, but it was not confined to that part of India. In BOmbay a gross case of torture had occurred, mating in the death—he might say the murder—of an iridividual ; and' in this case the European officer had not shos‘vn that vigilance he ought to have done. He believed if the noble lord the present Governor-General of India only acted up to the spirit of his sneech. he might render illustrious in India a name beloved in Europe as was that of his great father. Mr. HENLEY said the thanks of the country were dee to the hon. member for Poole for bringing the subject of torture so distinctly before Parliament. Another mat ter had, come most painfully out in the course of the inquiry —namely, that persons in office in India had no know ledge of what was clone by persons in their ewn employ ment. It was extremely painful to find these matters,, which had been stated in the report, treated so lightly as they had been by the honourable baronet the member for Honiton. The hon. baronet seemed to wish the house to believe that the merchants and commissioners knew ' nothing of the matter. But this forced the fact on the house that the Government was culpably ignorant. The hon. baronet argued that the surgeons of the gaols know nothingof those cruelties, and that, therefore, there could have been no serious Wounds, but this only proved that the Europeans were not awareof what was going on around them. The facts were, however, now known • public opinion was brought to bear on the subject, and doubtless they would be put down. But he (Mr. Henley) thought the governing body of that countrycould not be exempt from blame when such practices existed without being known, or if they were known, permitted by the government. Sir C. WOOD said that now tne fullest information of the factsin question was obtained, the government of India would lose no time in putting an end to such a disgraceful state of things as had been disclosed by the exertions of the hon. member for Poole. With respect .to the statements of the hon. member for Manchester, it was obvious that they referred to another period as regarded the actual expendi ture on civil works. He (Sir C. Wood) stated the average expenditure on civil new works in 1852 at 700,0001. Mr. Grant's statement of expenditure, viz., 1,600,0001. in 18'4, offered no discrepancy as to the facts. Mr. BRIGHT said the figures might be made to agree, but it would be by including things which were not strictly public works. Sir C. WOOD said the discrepancy was none, because for Mr. Grant's purpose all money for repairs, as well as for now works, was included. The hon. gentleman said the statement of Indian finance on the subject of the loan made by him (Sir C. Wood) was intended to deceive the house. There was no use in talking of the balances, as they varied. That in April, 1853, was 15,500.000/. This gave about 5,500,0001. available for any purpose to which it was requisite to be applied. For four years there had been an annual increasing surplus. For that the Four per Cont. Loan was kept open, and it being obvious that the Fiveper Cent. Loan was unnecessary, it was the duty of the Govern. ment to reduce the 5 per cent, to 4, as it 'would be unjust to call upon the people of India to pay the difference. After this operation had been effected a change of circum stances took place, rendering it necessary to raise a Five per cent. Loan for the purposes of the country. The first circumstance he gave his attention to when he accepted the post of President of the Board of Control was to endea vour to establish friendly relations with the western fron tier of our Indian dominions. He could not too highly praise the conduct- of Lord Dalhousie in the war which had been, as it were, forced upon him. That noble lord had acted with so much judgment that he was enabled to put an end to wars, to obtain large acquisitions of territory, and to lay the foundation of amicable relations with other powers. The successor was well selected, and he augured the best for the appointment. Mr. WHITESIDE referred to the complaints against the civil tribunals, and he thought it was the duty of the autho rities to look well to that 'matter. He must refer to one circumstance connected with the government of India— namely, that though Scotchmen were constantly appointed tp high judicial situations in India, no instance was on record of an Irishman being selected. Sir C. WOOD said the Crown made the appointments. Mr. WHITESIDE—Then the Crown bad acted in an illiberal and an unjust manner towards Irishmen. Mr, MANGLES adhered to his statement that torture 3,091,775 Be was aware that the deficiency was somewhat large, but it chiefly arose from a cause with respect to which the peo ple of this country could net find fault, viz , the large amount expended upon public works. He did not think that the House of Commons could complain of tbis expen diture, for no subject had been me re frequently and perti naciously pressed than the necessity for the undertaking of those works. His right hon. friend (Sir C. Wood) in bringing this subject before the house last year, had, while he lamented the deficiency which then appeared, frankly confessed that he had but little haope of its being made good. He (Ur. V. Smith) wished! to deal with the com mittee as openly as his right hon.. friend, and he would therefore advert briefly to some of the items seriatim. The first subject for consideration was the question of land revenue. Now, it would be impossible to increase the amount raised from that so arca of revenue by in creasing the tax ; that was admitted on all hands ; but it was hoped that by following the contrary system, viz., by lowering the rate, a larger gross return might be ob tained. This was not a crude notion of his own. A re port had been made by Mr. Caulfield on the subject, who, after carefully. examining and maturely considering the facts, stated that by decreasing the rate much land at present unoccupied would be brought into cultivation, and the gross revenue from this head increased. By this means a twofold object would be gained--the relief of the tax payers and the increase of revenue.. The next item was the duty on opium. In this a large decrease was experienced, but that might be expected, as the consumption of that ar ticle was a mere matter of fashion., and as such liable to great fluctuation. It might be hoped that when the present troubles in China were at an end the revenue from this source would rise to its old level. With regard to the next item, the revenue from salt, under that head a slight in crease was exhibited. He might mention to the committee that an endeavour had been made to place the collection of this branch of revenue upon a better footing, but some little difficulty had been found in the matter. In the cus toms there had been a small falling-off. Ho was inclined to think that it would he for the advantage of India if ex port duties were abolished, if that could be done with out injury to the revenue. Various schemes had been laid before them, and one of the substitutes proposed was an addition to the tax on salt—a proposal which of course he could not agree to. It was difficult to carry out free-trade principles its regard to this point, in a country in which no such substitute could be found for them like the income tai in this country. It would be dangerous, in his opinion, to try other experiments in India at present. Though there • had been a falling off in the whole revenue of India, he did not entertain the least fear with regard to it; as he thought the revenue would rather go on to increase than diminish after the public works for developing the resources of the country were completed. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY wished to knowthe total amount of the revenue of last year. Mr. V. SMITH said it was 20,337,2711. Let them look at the expenditure. The great item in the expenditure was, of course, the army. He believed no one would pro pose to reduce the army at the present moment. It was something to say that they had an army in India of 320,000, upon whom, if recruiting failed in this country, they could rely, and that it comprehended a cavalry, the irregular horse, who might be of great use at the Cape and in the Crimea. It would not be wise, therefore, to reduce the Indian army. The expenditure for public works was not made till it , was needed, and for that expenditure the House of Commons was responsible. The reduction of the interest on the debt had not been carried out as his right hon. friend anticipated. The reduction had been checked by the loan which it was found necessary to raise in March last. He did not intend to enter into the defence of that loan. All the papers connected with it had been pro duced, and were before the house. The Court of Direc tors had taken steps at the commencement of the year to meet the difficulties of a deficiency of funds, and had pre vented an increase of drafts on India. It would have been unjustifiable if his right bon, friend had done other wise than take advantage of the opportunity to reduce the interest of the debt. His only doubt was whether he had sufficiently appreciated the increased demands arising from public works. Every means had been considered for the reduction of the expenditure. It was worth consider ing whether the cash balance of 8.000,0001. was not too large a one to be kept in India. The directors and Board cf Control were not insensible to tho necessity for economy, and in a despatch sent out on June 27, 1855, a revision of salaries was recommended. Lord W. Bentinck had suc ceeded in reducing the expenditure from 3,155,1341. to 927,1671. in two years, but no such reduction c old now be made, because the chief part of that reduction had been in the expenditure for the army. The money expended on public works was not to be considered as lost, bat as pro fitably invested. He came now to what he must call the brilliant political prospects of India. The most perfect tranquillity and peace prevailed throughout India at.pre sent. The Governor-General had entered into a treaty with Ava, and a treaty, a very valuable one, had been entered' into with Cabul. By the latter treaty the western frontier would be secured. With regard to Persia, the British Minister had to cope with the• diplomacy of Russia, and the exaggerated promises which Russia held out to the Shah ; but at present there were no difficulties with that power. They had heard much of Russian influence in every part of the East. By the report of the commissioner Of that country, it was gratifying to know that iu the countries bordering on Shiva, so far from the Russian army being threatening, it had been reduced by the war in Europe, and was unusually weak and inactive. It was ab surd to suppose that the war against Russia in Europe was continued from any fear of her aggression in the East. The Indian navy was in a state of so great improvement, that his right hon. friend might soon bo able to withdraw British vessels of war from those seas. Besides the roads and canals that were in progress, the electric telegraph had been established, and many hundreds of miles of railway completed. These internal improvements had cost a large arm, and he believed if more attention had been paid at first to centralisation of companies and uniformity of ac tion some expense would have been saved. But it was too late for that now. The electric telegraph had been completed mainly through the exertions of Dr. Shaugh nessy, and a proposal had been submitted by another gen tleman for the establishment of the electric telegraphbbe tween India and this country by way of Egypt. His right hon. friend had not been able to produce the bill which he had promised on civil and criminal prooedure, bat ho had been able to introduce a bill for the establishment of a re sident instead of an itinerant judge in the strait settlements. He must not omit the question of justice and police. and, above all, the commission as to torture. (Hear, hear.) This was a painful topic. It was impossible to deny that there had existed in Madras Presidency a practice of ad ministering torture for the purpose of compelling payment of taxes or extorting confession of crime. (Hear, hear.) The only consolation was that no European appeared to have been personally implicated in the infliction of such tortures. No doubt the European officials were nearly as culpable for overlooking such a system—(hear, hear)—as if they had been concerned in it. (Hear.) And the system was utterly abhorrent to English feeling. (Hear.) The governor of the presidency had done all in his power to suppress it when it had been brought to light, and hail passed an act for the purpose ' • and he (Mr. V. Smith) assured the house that it should not be allowed to sleep; but that the system should be entirely abolished. (Hear.) With regard to the great question of administrative reform, it had actually been carried out by an act of Parliament in 0 1 f 852 7 ; f i e l n ap o p rci oi n n g tm a e c u lu ts e . r u eg p a o r n d h to is m co eri m l ing in in t t he ooffi di e s e tr h ib e n ( t s i l e r ! V. Smith) had taken great pains in appointing a board of examiners. Not leas than 113 candidates wore examined, and it appeared that 32 came from Cambridge, 19 from Oxford, 14 from Trinity College, Dublin, 15 from the Acotch universities, several from the Irish colleges, and a :*4 4,217 412,282 5,736 oft - I,ntr . hail been inflicted en native , ' ^ l '"'" to obtain payment ot trii•ute ; ' •• - a . : ; ,o tha Court t,i. re written long I,'' - ' • ..,. ' 1 thercloro.ho was to.. . 61 11 their existence. ab M ou r t . D to . r S tu E r Y a, M .w ° h U ic ß h w he ag l 6 fl 3 l lll one but too true. It was impossible to exculr, .06i,rr servants of the company, and after much go.tion, he came to the conclusion there was 5 ° „biol . , darst anding with respect to torture. The revenue !,, sr aig was vory large, and orders were given was the foundation of his suspicion that ant i 1 ,140 t the infliction of torture did exist. Be thourt ,14, 04 when complaints were brought bc'''f(filo:reld"lthailteetatrribr:eb°l'3lll3:itatitttilrligeir944'4l: had been too lightly dealt with. He objected 1 ", t i i er t pli..ymeut of iII-paid servants in the coilection,e! o f il! venue, and he thought a more careful examilielicirilli.r, tives ought to take place before admitted into tusedeooti:, vice, and that when admitted they ought to b° sue r, paid. Ho thought it would be better to inerget;.7 to colleot.l:oceiro ences on all sides, and for all to unite toeugg' 0 for tho benefit of India. thewerrr were e r r i untc housei a p n l a d 'Mr. V. SCULLY wps glad to hoar the Olt V I plan of administrative reform in Indian affa i "',. •,_,O The series of resolutions on the subjectof I 11 10 w cwa o rr u on l i d etd be applied to affairs a t b a n a d i 02 , Trusts Bill. • i l of li' d 0 into commission on th ° Ciiiiri The other orders of the day were dispose ' house adjourned at two o'clock. _........ 11,1 t. had ^becp. tbobe lei;tmrs :8 court, COUNTRY Ar A tds: 'EV' --......,...—____ . i LIVtRPO OL —AUG. T. We, ;1' .We had a better attendance to -day duo c l t „ P °,,,; fair extent of business done, hold ers subinitil p et to , dnction of about 2d per bushel o n wheat an .ionat," on Spanish flour. Indian corn in favour. !lo be ; AO') ness dune at Is to is 6d per qr advance, th e . n ¢eig yellow being worth 40s per 4801bs. articles of the grain trade. _. f l IPSWICH AUG. 7. „.0 c'y,,,, The anxiety evinced by the growers to so 7 13 , to o p rd their remaining stock of wheat caused the fill Oa larger than perhaps it really was, and althocioo o t 9 sales, and would have submitted to a redecild Tye 3s per qr., the millers were shy in buyieg , t r The o , . reduction not much business was transe ctm , : s gae ve ole plant, owing to the rain, has not iinprovea 1- .. „, 4 ,) r• , c oi rge. QUARTER. °, te Wheat, red (old) 72s to 74s Barley, grill" ... 49. . Ditto (new) Ditto, white (new) 76s to 78s Peas ............. ." 00 t , Ditto (old) Barley, malting -ElFlonr, per sO l ' . - gk AVERAGES FOR THE WERE ENDING AL t tb ri7 ' s,l 6 . Wheat - sn s v- , " Oatsvv„ OJ 0,9 , j Peas Barley Beats STILL—AUG. oder ao. f The supply of wheat to-day was 0n19111,,,,T00ai40 were free buyers at 3s decline on last wiee'w2e, farmers would not give way mor e than for e .: 00 quontly only a limited business resulteo_d. )4 2 lower. Spring corn in improved delna u 2 4 o riro o , thor quieter, but more inquiry for cake 't the market ; feeding rape cakes, of fir! fitt otet l : o l,V request. Bones sell as they arrive at 0 12 ' 4. ."'0re ' t i v e landed for a still higher one. Corsolalu",, from I rat of the wheat crop, and of special ivjuri rain of the last 24 hours. blo c/ 'Peas, gral 11 7 a o° ll ' s 6' L i nse ed, Iga-,„th D i t t o Petersa.7olo` Ditto Riga a" "' 0 angel ....i;;;;;04 to, Dittollon i g s Memel ••••••••• , I. r!! s 0 `' 1;101 , 10 / uw, tons. o. for. Os Ditto fine Ditto inf. fer• 0-atert pescede s :"130e 'l.+ foreig n Tares,RaßDaiPOl 4)1) Guano ..••.. Bones ........... Bye Meal s s Wheat, English, red 74 to 76 1 Ditto ,whito 7B to 80 1 Dautzic and Konigs- berg - 78 to 801 Pomo raniau and Ham- burgh Danish, holstein, and Friesland 66 to 701 Russian and Odessa CO to e 5 Oats, English 2B to 30 Ditto Danish Ditto Friesland Ditto Russian 2B to 30 Barley, malting Ditto grinding, 314t0 to Beans Ditto forei g n Peas, white and yel. 40 to 43 COUR EXCHANGE' OF EXCHANO 0. 4159- .• A.msteream . .. • • .... 11 17 Gibraltar •• Ditto, three months .. 11 18% . Leghorn •• ... Rotterdam ............ 11 1••% Genoa. .... Antwerp -•••• • • • • • .... 25 5 Milan • • •'.. Brussels ........ 25 35 , Venice.. liambargh ............ 13 8 1 Naples •• . Altona .. • • ...... _Palermo Pyxis ........ -•• • • .... 25 10 Messina • „ ,e Ditto, three months .. 25 37 4 . Lisbon •••:.•':..',, Mar5ei11e5.............25 37% Oporto • '; Bourdeaux ...••••••••• Frankfort•on Maine..„ llBg Rodin •••••• 00000 ••• •• Vienna, •• •• •• s• •• •• e• 12 0 rrleste•••••••••••••••• 12 2 Petersburg •••••••••••• 35 3 4 Madrid 50% ........•• ..... .• 5 0% 'tandems •••••••••••• Seville" •••• Rio Janeiro. ..7010 . Buen os .A9r, e ki l N e w York' , ; Philaelphia Pa d l eEs Or pigs?c, Foreign G Ol6 CO . (/ '1 Portuga 1 Go ld ,1 Ifesican Do' Silver 1)4.•11-1r$:.'4.. SEABORNE NAO S ' 6 0 ' the the (N sigh:flea that the mails are sent frora s o) F.. by the night—and by the morning—dos Pa. 1 ro e 4 ,1 at e t st Day whom maas tlf f or COUNTRIES. iu General Post. ~1 • 4>) Office, London. * ft'" imetica(byßrit.pack)N Every Friday • • •• imerlep. (by United Sts. . W eil° packet) ..........N America (by U. States .'SoO tl3°Pt'll packet) •• •• •• • on Australia (via South- . Son "' 0P $47 ampton) .. ....M Ditto (via Marseilles) N, • Ditto (via Cape of Hood; • o) Africa (West Cow.t)...N 'l3d of the month. ' t pp; Alexandria ..........N '3, 9, 'l4, & 30 of 17 , P ° ,,0 10 50.41 1 / 1 / 4th & 20th of tr 1 01 ,• DQ % Bahamas M 17th of the moot l c Belgium ............N 11ailY •••••• • •• • • • P° t et Ot i for to( Brazil 31 9th of the month.• Buenos Ayres pd 9th of the month.• .... 5 ;4005r • Cape of Good Hope ..N Cape of Good Hope ..N fizz Cape do Verde 9th of tha mom. or Ceylon (see India) aID , Ceylon ;.....N Chaimel Isles Mon ~Wed.,&Fri3. go-,0011, gel g c 17th of ,t,ontl. 9 04 China . Once a month Constantinople 8,13, 18,23,et5s ot ~„.5 / Constantinople 4th St 20th of m0n...,• 3 ",,, - . 0 0 :(1 4 1 , Cont. of Europe M& N Twice daily Egypt (see India) A' .. lel DOV'' 01 ) France 3.1 & N Twice daily • • Gibraltar sota• 4,7,17,20, 27 of ro I Grsece (see India) VS P Graytovan & 17th of m0n...,,,N0 Ot t ' riairibtirgh ..........N1 Tuesday & Friday L"'„ i pfat't .• I itivannah .......... al 2nd of the month 5 0 .„,r...;; 0 1 , Holland „ Po u ` tr ang Honduras iu 17th of the month. e t' India (viaSouthampt.)M 4th & 20th of mom „,, 7 cf ".,•• i India (via Efarsellles)M Othilt2.E.th of mon ll ' lonian Ides (see India) 7. 17, Re 27 of Mon t ,'',"1 .7 71 0 :,`,40 , ' II Ireland •..... • .1,1 & N Twice daily .. • • • • Lisbon • • •• • • •• • 7,9, 17, & 27 of 1 71 . Uadeira 9th of the month Sov'erpool Madeira • • • • • • ...... N 23d of month •• • • 111 ta (see India) cer Po Malta —ll 8, 18, &28 of inon• P" ' Mauritius (see India) d oe' viauritina 14th of the mont h ~‘ , Oll- 1 Me:llw •• .• •••• •• i '2nd of the month. o d er Naples .............N Pitthlth2lsthofillon• ..,,m u thl lol „o r r l ', Sew Granada & 17th of mono. 6,,'t.iosir New t ea1and.......... private skip • v er Papal States • . •.....1 Peninsula lthl7th27thofinon•rl' o ° vt; , slorP ,Peru ............ '4l Pi . 17th of ,rioc s ,1 'E'lrt Natal .... N private ship. • •!.,,' o ver a r 81eity N sth mh2Uli.A mon. , ,‘ Tuscany Stlll . sth2nt boilooli•lP t opoc tr 'ionezucla If 9d tic 17th ottrunitli t l,O/ Van Diemen's Land (se, • Australia) ; 1 West Indies • • id ++t. 17th 0; monti - ifr ols l ll l4 When any of these dates fall on a BundaY•4losor ?patched on the following day, with the o tee nli h it " 4outhampton), and the Malta, both of which If p eu pri receding day. tir o/4 1 r ol ° tli The balance on the account of lino iai a to oo e is shown, by a return yesterday if's ° too 23,8621., but, although this appears s le 61) there is in the Three per Cent. Con invested on account of the same. BIRTHS• OF A SOL A re, 0 0 On the 7th inst., at 32, Brunswick: 4 e 4, t l3 L ..: Leech. vi r ct ie r , o t, On the 4th inst., at Oxford-terrace, .L . 'l pe ' of of W. J. Grano. Esq. the Dial - On the 28th tilt., at Cheltenham, la"" B. Constable. 01 OP A DAIIGIITICIi. es to fgr oi On the 2d inst., at Drumlee, Lady 5 5 61 ‘ l/11 ra ds On the 6th inst., at Fornham, Bu r y -t. 1 lady of Colonel Curtis. "0' ' ClOl l iP Oa the 6th inst., B, the Grove, wife of the Rev. T. W oo d m an, M.A.ri crrs°44 ' , On the 6th inst., a t 31, Upper g„itliltuflj. park, the wife of th e Rev. Edward lit' P curnbent of St. StePhen-the-31arty r. tt s ' MARRIED' 1 511 0 „ 0 05,,i0,0 On the 4th inst., at St. George's, Jc", il ices"`"o l oi Nicoll, Esq., J.P. for Middlesex ou'', 4 Pg . ' A N,' Melina, youngest daughter of Lewis .1 - °u' ' 49", 1 ' rs' fr House, Essex. iorat eir d e o o kL e On the 7th inst., at St. George's, . 1 " --- of n4 o ' Rev. Michael F. Sadler, perpetual curslocid pol, Regent•street, to Maria, daughter 0 o re. 12, Upper Grosvenor-street, Grosvenor -A Y icll.'o 'e if DIE D. fl*ll°lrli On the 4th inst. at Red-hill, Ffavan ' o coh Hawker, Captain ' 6th Dragoon Guards, of i son of General Sir T. Hawker, aged 2,;,, r tost 1 0 On the 4th inst at Shaw-street, -r"" Thomas Crook, Esq., aged 79. 31 0 ciret lo ' 1 On the 6th inst., at 42, Fins 0 0- p Croll. fCO 0 ,, On the sth inst., Mr. Geo. Claytoh, ° t';so , Britannia-fields, Islington, aged 48. „„, 1 1 ° 15 :get I. On the 4th inst., at St 'Andrew's pia - Yarn' o , :i Thos. Plowden Peslantl ' , 'Esq., of C"f°r" .4°l' sbire, aged 53. ii i f errot, 0 , , 1, the 6th inst., at 11. Arundel-terrucarof4 1 c, Mr. Edward Henman, late of Cannon' o ci G 2. ' E e ry On the 2d inst., at Camberwell, W ll3. it I 0 Esq., aged 77. 0 11 --- low,, 10,11, LONDON : Printed and Published by c , otV e 'ettl i of N 0.112, Strand: Printer, at TA u° o2 Oa I. 4 ,trand, in the Precinct of the Sa voy Ii ; ...i i c , ' 1•* Wednesday, A vg ust $, 1°""' Mk ALI 611er, evening, It 4 ;' ,l ltatio n , (1(4 ' 4 . sti ' Llj l ttl Po qr R AND 4. 1. the Ri e 1( 3 1, 0 TP.O lox EdIL p en S A e COAL 4 4 v, Les. 3 them f 4 15 R66 7- aq lb . e o ii ;ch i , 717 . Bt l . 4 , lll '"'M fr Eflte9 . ' th e h M E XIC Z. 1 1! Thir I C;,3 0,541° 1141 (7 1 ' • Lor n 7 ) Bl 17' °llcethar b7l Ne " ORTe abA thtl g y gi t o o t r i i at P Third "Gogtnr. gi ' l4 to ate k io r nl 4 t , ~arf. } ‘P.d i For to 1111 d r ,! A nZ, 1,• 4 U¢• 12 Aa g. P hOal, t kai. , lB beis t To th e t t7t in e t t h ne n , -- to ik 4T 'Y 1 "hoN t ie? t ZI w s „'uni 44C'tlern Th, Nti t i tari x It tk thnlttor Or i.k4 Z 1 e t a s 111;Z it, 41 1 0 411 , t e \7 4 : 44 ,. 1 to,„;'ttl tukdal ~\ Silb h: , i ) iz T~~ a 8 (II; Zh u ,. str4 t .....,. i , To oi