The Sun. — London, England, 1820-06-01 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS. (Continued froni rim. second Page.) CORN LAWS.-.IGRICULTURAL COMMITTEE. Ori the q ,estion of thr appointment of the Agricultural Committee, the following names, prop- , ril by ihe in,,ver, were read over— Mr. Holme Sumner, Flight Hon. J. Foster, Right Lion. G Canting. night Hun. F. Right Hon. V. Fitz G erald, Right Hon. W. Huskisson, the Lurd Mayor, Lurd SO - John Newport, Mr. Western, Mr. C. Dunda3, Sir T. A. Aetand. %Viten the above names were called over, BARING said, he was aft aid tire appoint ment of this Committee would rather tend to alarm arid agitation in the country tlidn to any possible advetutage, It would be ioyid:ous to ob ject to flares ; but without arty farther informa tion on the subject, he conhl venture to tell what the Report of a , Commit tee so. appointed would be. 'flit se were his feelings on the subject, and he feared the nomination of sn, h a Committee . would be the subject of just alarm collie country, Sn JOHN NEW MK T woldil trot have allowed himself to form one of the Committee, if he en tertained the same opinion of its .labours as that just expressed by his Hot). Friend. Whatever opinions he might individually hold on the sub ject, be worth' cuter rime Committee with a firm determination to do his tiuty, not °illy by the egrieulturists ; but by the country in general. He would not he a party “+-a Committee-tor any other purposes.—(Hear hear !) Mr. H. SuMNER (11(1 not consider himself fairly tleait with by the lion. Member (Mr. Baring). A stigma %vas thrown out against the Gentle men whombe had nominatcd on the Committee, while it could not be unknown to that Hon. Alember but that Lie had only exercised his right in so doing. He had only secured to himself tlrat which he would be a tool if he had nut done--a fair majniity.—(Loud cries of bear! and laugh ter, and name, name!)--llid -such .Gentlemen be should have proposed a- majority against hiarselt Whenever a G.nitnittee had been moved for on ihat,side of. the House, the Mover gene rally contrived . to have a majority of the -Com mittee of his own opinion ;—(a laugh on the Opposition Benehes)— ‘ and in the same way, the 31tEbbe,rs on the Oppoaition side as generally Cotr... trivrd „to have a Majority . of the opinion of the Mover.—(Louti,laughing on the -Ministerial . Benches.) Mr. W. Siut•rn bad no objection to admit, he bad voted last night for the. niorion forton a Com, mittee,•becaase, be'telt it was his duty to give the Petitioners .an opport unityast betirre 'the Committee-their grievances. ...fie certainly 'could not agree that ,a Committee of persOns should be notnivated who had precisely the - same view of the subject as the Hon. Member for Surrey; namely, that the agrieultural:interest'ought to be further protected than • they were at present by the Corn Laws. •This:he•Could by no means \Vit.' !less without protesting against so unfair - a mode' of nominating a- Connuittee; or, in otlier•words, of seleeiing such persons -to try a question, upon_ which they bad' already made toetheir . minds, and' ' in ttae tesult of which . they Were themselves per - sonally Interested, Alr..SuNNBa , explained, Mr. CALCRAFT confessed be had voted against the Committee last nighr, because he did riot be lieve the agritulttriists suffered mare severely tlra'n was the hit of others. , He•profi , ssed be never had beard of airy at,ery, great ?tg - tiettitur4l distress until he came into -that .House, which 'occasioned hint some surprise when- he fotind - th-em (rebating the., question with • vonsidurable• heat and • interest. • The question would, however, be argued atgreater by . and , bye, and he should reserve himS'elf for that occasion.. Mr. BROUGHAM Wit{ eAced with surprise the form of their proceeding to-night. It seemed now that the vote of last night was to be taken as nothing, and the House was to proceed to do the htn‘iness of last night over 'again. He could not agree-with others who impeached the ; con duct of the i-lona Mover, that lie bad- acted im properly in securing a majority on the'c.:onithittee of those who-considered it neces,iary` the agricul tural interest should obtain some measttre of re'- lief. When the names at the Member for Wa terford, tor... Taunton, himself, -and' two others professedly•averse-toAn high price of earn, were on that Committee, he did not imagine the House' would thipk.z.Nere was any improprietrili securing' a majority . on- the.Coinalittee in •favour of the itt' Nine at the Committee were tigainst'in-' tiniry altogether, and there was 'merely a bare indjarity for doing something, whilst the greater part had Hot pledged themselves.'to any specific proitosi;ion what e v e r. • - Mr. BRIGHT wished to be excused from going oo the Committee. • Mr, SPooN KR entertained very strong objections to 'he composition of this Committee, for h. found excluded from it the Members for I'Vor wicksbire, Staffordshire, and other great !MIMI.. facturiog counties. Such a Committee could not but create a very great alarm in the country. It would he easy to come to a conclusion that high pikes would ire advantageous to the agriculturists; but there was another question to be considered, /lamely, whether the manolactorers could hear it. lie therefore thought there ought to be on this Committee Alenthers:connected with the 11341111. factoring interests. Mr. MAxwetd...gave it as his opinion that a pro. tecting d►►ty should be laid upon foreign Corn. Uhh►er Members were then about to he appoint ed of this Committee, after Mr. H. SUMNBR had defended himself from the charge of nut having put mercantile Rept esentatives on the list, when li►e bad 'nominated Mr. Canning, the Lord Mayor, &c. when General GASCOYNE objected entirely to the mode of nominating this Committee, which ought to have been dune 'by ballot. On such an impor taw question every thing should have been done fairly and openly, in order to prevent any alarm or agitation in the public mind.•-He would, there fore, move that this Committee be nominated by ballot, aotVnot. by : simple nomination.—This mo tion mrts nit stconded. 1 - 14.m.zy thought it fortunate that no risen to second the motion of the Gepeo4t. He did not, for °tie, belieee :s Berne alarm would be excited by ap pointing this Committee. The aiarnt, if any, Must arise tram the circumstance of the tocsin having been sounded by men like the Members for 'faun ton and Portatlington, whose opinions could not' fail to create a very strong sensation out of doors. Mr. GALCRAFT, Mr. Iliattbo, and Mr. BARING, denied having said any thing which could create alarm or uneasiness in the public Mind. The latter hoped that the question, would be that Might set at rest ; but if it was not, be. should pull at that tocsin until a proper alarm was ex eked for the safety of every interest in the State. No one that knew him could conceive that he wished for any commotion ; but he wished that sort of alarm which would rouse the great in terests of the State from being endangered or put at Stakr. Sir AI II (DLEY explained. He had no inten tion of imputing to the Hon. Members a wish to excite any commotion. Mr. BEOUGIIAM thought it somewhat inconsis tent to deprecate alarm, rind then to say that he would pull et the tocsin until alarm should be excited.--Mr. BARING did deprecate alarm. • • - The following 6'entlemen were then nominated to complete the Committee :—viz. Mr. Bright. Mr. J. Fane, Mr. Banks, Mr. Brougham, Mr. .1. Venett, Mr. Irving, Mr. W. Coke, Mr. Gooch, Mr. F. Lewis. Air. H SUMNER Said, the Lord Mayor bad re presented it to hint as inconvenient to tie - on the Committee ; he should, therefore, propose that Air.. Wilson should be nominated in his stead. The Committee was then constituted. Mr. F. ROBINSON said, the House would not expect him to enter into the discussion which was carried to so great aylength last night. He should, therefore, confine himself to an explanation of What he had only hinted at last night, namely, that the inquiry of the'Committee should be limited. An lion. Member had last night moved an amend ment to that .effect , but it not being put. in point of form, nothing. could be said as to the extent of the inquiry. lie should, therefore, propose a motion, that it be an instruction to the Co , nmit tee to. inquire into the mode of striking the averages of corn, or any frauds therein, in the 12. maritime districts under the exi'sting.Corn Law. • Mr. IVoneHoOstr thought the present system of taking the averages would admit of much itn provenlent, in a Yv.a.y. that could not he objected to by the mercantile inte:.ests. This would be htiheficial, not only n obtaining fairer average prices, -but also it: suppressing that dreadful spe cies.of gambling , which was now so prevalent in the Corn trade. kit:, knew of no way in which Magistrates could, suppress the frauds and tricks on:this system of -the averages. He contended, that there-was much lkazard fit allowing the•mode of striking the average to remain as it was. On the 7th of November, - 1 - Sl5, there was a return from:Lynn, itLNorfolk, of 2000 quarters, at 565. and the same . tlay..the.re-was , another return from Denbigh, of two quarters, at the rate of 100 s., .which bad as mitch. weight in the striking the ave rage as the 2000 quarters. Mr. BuRRELI. contended, that the distress arose holt) excessive taxation ; and be moved an amend. menr, thiat it be an instruction to the Contodilee to :inquire whether the present mode of taking the averages ascertained the actual !nice of grain, and .w.bether a better mode could not be adOpted. Mr. S. WoRTLEy said, it was 'now the time to speak out ; and he would say, that -the country would nu t h ear airy additional price to be laid on corn. Of all interests, the agricultural suffered the Mr. BENETT Of Wilts) contended, that be was not an advocate .for a high price of grain, but really for the lowest price at which. it could be .raised in this country. Every step w e too k towards making •this country dependent on to. reigners for -corn, was carrying that commodity nearer and nitarvr td an exirasagant price; be• cause much of our land - Must then be thro wn out of cultivation, lie l►ol►eU the House would al - law the whole of the Petiiions to be laid before the Committee for its examination. Mr. MONKLAND said, there were , two sues tions forconsideratiOn ; not only that of the price at which corn could be grown, but the pike that the poor man must pay for it. The great mass, of the population found itself at presdut in a state of starvation, or of paupetion, and therefore it was that he had voted yesterday against'the appoint ment, of ,t 1,,,e Committee.' Lord TEMPLE hoped the Committee would go to the examination of this question with calmness; !Ant h'evciimila not consent to raise the price of a comniodity•so . ncceary to the watts of the peo ple, forthese were not times to taniper with the feelit4o of 'tie people. Mr.AVILmoT said, it was exactly on th i at ground that he had' TOW . ' last night • for he previous question ; and for that reason he would now vote for the restricted -prOposition of the President of the Board of Trade'. The' manuf4ettner of con) was equally entitled , to remuneration as any other manufacturer. The recurrence to the poinsiples of political economy should be slow and tetn- perate. it teas due to the Public that the averages should be accurately- struck ; and he should vole against the amendment. Mr. BANits approached the question with great doubt ; bnt atilt he did so in the hope that the agricultural interest - would be beurfitted,, and none other be affected. More indiscretion than good sense had been strewn in some of the things that had been thrown out. He• did not mean to do more than to render the protection given:by tie Bill of 1815 effectual, which lit pre sent was not the case. Beyond that - he would not go. When a number of Gentlemen met at the house of 1,,,rd Liverpool, the main question related to the striking of the averages. I.f the average was the criterion, it ought not to be eluded by fraud or combination; and there might be as Much fraud in shutting as in opening the ports. It war absurd to say, that 2000 quarters of corn sold at Lynn would have. no more effectin regulating the market, than two quarters sold at a petty town in North Wales. The conduct of those who en• &avowed to excite alarm, might be produCtive of the most dangerous consequences. Nothing could be more unfair than to deprive the agriculturist of the protection held out to him by the Corn Bill. He must vote for the amendment. Lord CAsTLttneAGH !aid, that on such a subject .it was uaturid to Irny,el into questions of general policy; but tile object was to keep a- practical sobled• in vittv, The question that the ilousti had to decide was not affected by the vote of last night. He bt•ld no class in more,estimation than the landed proprietors and their tenantry_ He did not think the Committee unfairly selected, but no advantage would result unless the inquiry was narrowed. It was the duty of every man to look to the probable result of the Committee. Ail admitted that Much distress existed as to the agri cultural interests, though a difference of opinion might exist as to the degree. Unless the House was fully aware of the protection meant. to be given by the Corn Bill of 1815, they would rea son in a vicious circle. It the amendment of the Member for Suss-ex exhibited the sense of the [loose, be should vute fOr that amendment .: 80s. was the maximum fixed for the maritime districts. Two modes existed to alter the law, one by increasing the average, and the other by altering the prices. The object nt the amendment was to do that covertly which Parliament, if to be done et all, shotild do openly. If the public interest required it, let the Parliament act as in 1815, and increase the average, The Ports were then shut, and for 18 months the agricultutist had been in the possession of the home mat ket. Hod the Corn Bill been passed a year sodner: much of the evil that had since happened ...teoold have been pre vented. But the case Was at present quite diffe rent, and went upon the snppoition of future and increased distress. The present was the most unfavutnable time for the agitation of the ques tion, as the distress arose from causes that tin hu man nor legislative wisdom could controul.. But it-, was of the utmost importance to prevent the object of‘ the Corn gill from being defeated by fraud. Though Government te as . not aware of any fraud, " yet a stispicioo of that hind in the country was a proper grOund of inquiry. The country would easily distin guish betwixt a regulation of the existing 'prac tice and ,an alret,,tion 01 - th'e law. Any alteration of the. law would furnish- mtterials to those who endeavour to agita t e the public mind. He should oject as much 10 the reduction, and perhaps mor e , th an 10 the augmentation of the scale. If the Committee should recommend a revision of the Corn Laws, which he did not believe, h e wo ceived a. greater calamity could • not befall the country. He conjured the•Hottse; to confine them selves to •the regulation of the existing law, and to the question if any aboSes had crept in. In. 1815, 80s. was fixed as the average for the mari time distriets.,-yand had 80s. been then supposed to be, the stawiard for the whole , kingdom, those who voted for 80s. as the average of the mad time districts . , must- have 'voted. for 725. or 745. as the average - of the whole kingdom. , The agricul ture of the. country had been much improved by the Corn B;II, and the country-been marle much more independent of foreign nations. Though the two last seasons , had not been peculiarly pro ductive, yet the ports had been shut for the last IS months, and there' was no appearance of their being. opened. Mr- H. SUMNER said, that' the Agricultural was the most important class. in the community, without -at , all intending to depreciate the import ance of the other classes. He concurred • With Ore Noble Lord .in thinking that much evil would have been prevented had the Corn Bill pasecl - a year sooner ; but be also thought, that a similar remark might be applied to the pres e nt time, as the distress of the Agviculturist was similar to what it was then. He would not go iota the. Committee in order to increase the duty by a!ter, ing the averages. He felt it his dtlty to petse,. vere, and would vote for the A of the Member for Sussex. Mr. CALCRAFT had taken an active share in the . discussions of 1815, and had no inclination'i6 in tertere,with• what had 'than been ir'ratiged. knew of no monopoly granted to any class Of men,. but for the good of the whole. The prices of 1815 had been settled upon the condition that the averages. were to be taken as established -Iv law. To meddle, with the a v erages , would be to raise the prices. For fifteen months the Agricol- . turist had received 78a. for his corn, within 25.• of- the protecting duty; and that surely was not the time to agitate the question. he distress of the Agriculturists did not arise' fro 111 causes peculiar to agriculture, but what were com mon to the whole country. He was surprised at what had fallen from Itis H on ourable and Learned Friend (Mri Brougham), in pressing for inquiry ; who, when a Petition was'lately preteuted from Birmingham, discountenanced inquiry, sun re commended' an application to the Et ectitive -Go vernment. The Petitions - presented to the HOuse . had been sent all over the country-to obtain sig natures.. But•many of the Most respectable far mers were averse to such applications, and were aware they did not suffer so much•ss many of the other classes. Much alarm would have 'been saved, had the vote of last n:ght been different ; and in a choice of evils he should Tote with the Right Hon. Gentlenian (tlr. Robinson). At such a period of the Session no 'effectual Bill could lie introduced, but much alarm would undoubtedly be raked. Mr. PHILLIPS rose to offer a few observations ; but the question being loudly'called tor, thellon. Metnber-did , not address the House. Air. Ilttouc nA tu said be vas tint...7iniqz to present himself at , a time•when a disposition naturally was felt to close: the , debatei , and lie thould not have risen to enter into the merits of the question,' but that they stood in a peculiar situation from the conduct , udonted by• his Majesty's Ministers. He felt himself, bound to stare the grounds of the motion. They were pre cluded by the result of the preceding ; debate from entering again into the merits of the ques tion. For on that occasion, after a debate, not of shntt duration, for it coniinued until near four o'clock in the morning, the Howie came to a division, -find the result kvas that thvy bound ihrmselves to appoint a Committee to ingnire in to the state of the Agricukural After that coodusioa, the Llonie could not con- _ . sistently with its own dignity sanction the pre sent proceeding-. • The 'disappointment felt . on the division had brought down Judges, who were not in the House on Tuesday night, and otheri who would no' doubt support the motion, and secure a tri.j“rity. He called on those Metn• hers to reflect, that what was done on 'ritesday nighe.was regular. That which they were then ifottig Vies ittegnlat. The Aierntni• to, tniie ol . !toying moved the previous question on the p re° ceding deb a t e , a G a ll ant G enera l ° Ay l wards r e; vented it f ro m being- withdrawn. if the ° ali f : ll e , General had be en a b sent , as h e was at that irnii the amendment wo u ld h a v e b ee n put, ant i 6 doubt negatived. Th e amen d ment , 'which tit% came before the Ho use as t h e R t . H on . Merob er d motion would, in that case, have been conSigl ie to - oblivion. The A g ri cu l tura l popo o lation w e ' a t not be satisfied with the proceedings of tb tv 1 , 1 ,, night. They w ou ld f ee l th ere was no gr ound reiract the decision of the House last night• Mr. RonttiSoN, in explanation, considered the speech of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman extraordinary. He appealed to the House wu c i ther the Hun. and Learned Gentleman did n ° l himself regret, during the preceding'debate,. t ll % the forms of the House (lid not permit puttilLO, the Amendment, which was in terms - like th 6 t had moved in .the course of the night. The H Or !, and Learned Gentleman se e med to i n f er t hat th/P it it whO supported the motion had been guilty 1 4 trick, becaus e ( - heir ideas differed from his. `rare they to take their ideas from the lion. and Learnt ell Gentleman ? He was incapable of gaining hf a side wind, Or artificial proceeding, that wh i ?" could not be.gained-PY other means. nRoUGt-i ; ANt !king to explain ; Mr.BARING spoke to order, and observed, that it was irr e ' gular to pursue theconveesation. The SPE:IICir, said, he nnderstood the olijcet of the .1 1° .V Meniber was to expl a i n what. was his notion o f the atritcoi e intent. If so, he was in (mice.. • • Mr. BROOGBAM then' explaineffnu that pOint. mr.HUSKISSON remarhed, that th e Bon. atulliea— tvii, Gentleman had opposed an amendment, which might, if uti‘ _the share be hatl taktUt in wording it, he called his own.' Mr. BROUGHAM, again explained. Mr. BATHURST said a few words in support of the 10: tiurf. , Lord MILTON explained the difference between the 0 : f motbm then before..lle House ; he did uot, approve I either, but preferred %hat proposed by the Hon. Sussex. The question being then loudly called ‘ for, the gallery cleareti b tor a divisku. The amendment being negatived, the nunibers_cm,the di * gina! Motion - . . . • For Mr. Itubinsent's Motion, ... ' 254' Against it . i lO3 -- Majority . at When strang ers %yen. again admitt e d, th e consider:civil ' _ the Army Estimates 'was i•ostpone.d. ti_i FridAy. a 'Clic other Orders of the. Day were then disposed of, SS the House adjourned at Half Past Otte otiOeki LAW INTELLIGENCE. • --- - VICE-CHANCELLOR'S COURT, MAT 31. • F.X-PARTE THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND. Mr. Sur Anwiu, stated, that this was. an apPk . ' cation by her present Maiesty the Queen. 4 116 , petition prayed that her case might' be reletre(" 4, . the Alaster,.tor him to„tax and pay herArajestf s ' costs out of the 'fund in Court, in credit for Oi l Icause,. and that the renminder of. the fund, 40501. might he laid out in thepurebuse of Thrft per Cent. Bank Annuities, in tare name and ' 441 " . the privity . of the Aceotrutant-General. The tition stated, that by letters patent, various 1 1 " r" eels of Crown lands had been vested in !her fr e ' Serene Highness , the Dleiress- of ,Brunswick'' which by her - will she he/ier:Hied to center,:trustees, namely Lord Malinshury, th e Chancellor, and others, for the exclusive ; the then Princess of Wales, ROW Queen, land', and in case of her not residing in the ho'l' , ° . t. H on the premises, she Should have like yews of whole for her sole use. The house in had been sold tinderthe,ssth of his lite ; ,lll.ajest'' to the . Commisst , iners ()Elbe Lamlßevennetz, a"' the money had been paid into Court. Her 3 - le• je,ty now sought to hive the coosluxed, remainder laid out in, the Three per Cent He Wainot aware th Ai there was no prpvision 41 ' this Act for PiYing Costs, 'hut he considered to‘he of littl e avail; as the Act by any legitirtial 4 . construction qettpinly ; coirld not be understood 44o imply that the whole money. was to be vested, 0 44 it was obvious - it ecinblonly refer to the hi/ kfrCq which remained Lifer' paying, costs'. Her jetty was the sole and absolute, owner of 105 whole, and it would therefore be a:matter Pf" 4 .'; venience if this was granted, and tie costs pc° t o her solicitor. The VICR-cIiANCBI.I.OII, on looking at - the 4 (11 clause of the Act, said, it was usual in such ca' e°. for the Legislatnre to give authority to the,Co" fl ' in all matters relative to Costs. On examioi4P however, this clause', he saw it directed that 06 . Pim-paid into Court was to be laid out, certainty meant the whole sum. lie was nt licl i v afraid that b e t h e r e f ore h a d no j ur i s di ction, could not interfere. Mr. SHADwELL Said, perhaps that the best tV B I . would be to.take an order for an investment t 0 the whole money, Vice-CHAceLLott—i Mink so too. Tjk e ibat order. . . OPERA HOUSE. WATERS versus TAYLOR. Mr. BARI3ER said, that this was the petition of one the .'- _singers.ot tile Opera'House, praying that th e sum of 518 1 • ula to lion for profession a l serv i ces in that theatre, ought I%e out of fund in band: A reference hat liven wade to ti• — Nlastet: relative to the thillts ; incurred in • nranaging-tlie Th e 4; tre, since the def en d an t t i , as joined with Mr. G ou ld in it, there were ht joint funds, out of which such charges' coati liquidated. t The VICE-CHANCELLOR expressed sonic doubt as to fund from which this surn was- to be.paid, and also as to t 1 , 3.0 non-appearanc e o f M essrs . W aters and Taylor. He said ' sshould nut inalie'anv order till th e uattual consent of til eso Gentlemen was obtained. Ilo,nEtt ached whether his Honour •would hear t" case whop such consent was procured ? `The VIC, -CHAN CELLO a replied; that lie certainly wouldWr.. it a.t 4ny time. . .—• , On the 23t1i ult. at the Acitniralty House, Rochester, La" Gore,. of a daughter. of Yestei-thir inprag, in Upper thrley-stieet, the Lad) . - Mr.'Stuart, of a son. MAW:I2D. .; - . .• . , . At Srinkh Town, faaHlea, on Mitt April last, R. Dea n !' F..:44. son of the iate.Adunrat )?cans, to-'Mks Rac t fel - .Jacks° l .. '. Ha i ' i. daughter of the H o n. Sa mue l Jactison, of Catherine Ha , " the same Island. - 1 DIED. On the 27th Niay, a.t Newport, Itic of Wight, Richard R ea Taylor, merchant, aged 64 ye Last week, in, Gloccest et-street, Begirlald Belling eldest soli ut St . Bellingham tiraham, Bart. On ,janda,l: morning- last, at 'his house in Doughty -9 Harry A he, Esq. t Canton, WI the 15th :Tanuary last, on - board the Honoo, able East India Company's ship Volisittart, which be c ! i t be mantled, Capt. lloheit stair Dalrymple, youngest son _, ( r rt it late Sir H. Hamilton Dalrymple, Bill. Bargeny and r"" Bun wick. ' LONDON: Print e.l by .J. B. CARST.MS, of No. "P t ( v 4 r te r; )- 141110 mi-street, Qoeev 5.41.1a1e; ;out pobliibeti ri SU:IITS; of No. 7, 'with :.I.ll.,nzstrect, at Tko; o • OtEce, No. 11-2, Strnmi ; Ade.,;tisernenti, tellers, &c. (post-paid) must he athircued. t • .44 Fitt kt g , I' l4 t fat, it;; %1 1 , 41 1 , ti,: tit,