The Sun. — London, England, 1824-02-17 00:00:00

1- t z~ 1 -, ~! , , I`l ~" I 6d $ Gd a , he at od; /. 0 .:21RLIE A Jr. ---- • a 9-‘ • /6 . ti Pf - l e al/7; : or, !I zf~~.e~r e r•4~ UN. od ed -sod ' l 7l • e zs Oa is oa NITIVIBER 9824. TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 17, 1824. PRICE. SEVENPENCE; is od, )11— -s ott' ;d: set: 01 , d , 6d f' app )sitet ; ott i 0e ; oti ott i Oti 1 0& WI 3 N I *CV. 10* 13 5 16$ 10 5 leo 18 4 9 64 65' jar' 4 0 g Mt, 6s; 01- 111 0/ GeS' at* heat Bs-; ,04- cops 5 1 11 0. U2(' p of the MARQUESS WELLESLEY. fur JoHN MURRAY, Albeinarli-Street :AT a PRELIMINARY MEETING of NOBLEMEN and GENTLEMEN, held at the CITY of LONDON TAVERN, on THURSDAY, the 12th of Febrnary, 1824, THOMAS WILSON. Esq. M.P. in the Chair; Resolved Unanimously, That this Meeting, taking into con sideration the frequent loss of human life by shipwreck, and believing; that by the preconcerted exertions of practical men, and the adoption of practicable means, such calamities might . 9 fteli be averted, are of opinion that a NATIONAL INSTI VUTION should be formed, (to be supported by voluntary Donations and Subscriptions), for the Preservation of Life in ""ses of SHIPWRECK on the Coasts of the United King licco ; for affording such immediate assistance to the persons 'rued as their necessities may require; for conferring re loud& on those who preserve their fellow creatures from destruc tion; and for granting relief to the destitute families of any ..p 110 may unfortunately perish in attempts to save the lives '" , _others. Resolved Unanimously, that with a view to the Formation °f such an Institution, a GENERAL MEETING of the ,Nobility, Gentry Merchants, Traders, and others, be con-. 'retied for THU RSDAY, the 4th of March, at the CITY of LONDON TAVERN, at Twelve for One o'clock precisely, or such other day as may be found more convenient. Resolved Unanimously, That the following be a Provi sional Committee in the interim, with power to add to their namber 'Henry Baring, Esq. M.P. I John Clark Powell, Esq. Lord Amelius Beauclerk Joseph Pulley , Esq. Henry Bl anc h ar d, E sq . John V. Pur rier, Esq. John William Buckle, Esq. Lord Suffield Captain Deans Dundas, R.N. Benjamin Shaw, Esq. zarnuel Gurney, Esq. Christopher Tennant, Esq. George Hibbert, Esq. Joshua Walker, Esq. M.P. S otnue., Hoare, Esq. G Joshua 'Watson, Esq. G eorge Lye'', Esq. Thomas Wilson, Esq. M.P. Rev. H. 11. Norris e Resolved Unanimously, That these resolutions be signed by Chairman, and advertised in the London Papers. THOMAS WILSON, Chairman. k r. Wilson having left the Chair, it was resolved unani- Thously, li f : 1 ; : h ot the best Thanks of this Meeting be given to Thomas ze .7 4° : n 5 Esq. for his able conduct in the Chair, and for his -. An the support of the objects in contemplation. b • B. —The Public will observe that the above Meeting has G en Postponed from the 26th Instant to the 4th March. BRITISH COFFEE-HOUSE, COCYSPUR-STREET, FEBRUARY 12, 1824. T HE commusTEE. for the RELIEF of the REFUGEES from SPAIN. PRESENT. the C hair. - Sir THOMAS DYER, Bart., in James Morrison, Esci• A. O'Brien, Esq, John C ape l, Marquis of Lanado wn Esq. Jam es Barnett , E sq . Richard Wellessley, Esq. M.P . Colonel Jones George Hartop, Esq. M.P. The Committee having been applied to by that of Gibraltar, stating their funds were exhausted, and unequal to the relief of thos e Spaniards who had sought an asylum at Tangiers, have sent a sum which they hope will be sufficient for temporary as sistance; and they cannot lose this opportunity of repeating, that the claims upon their reduced means are every day in awed by new arrivals ; but they trust that the active benevo lence of the British Public will enable them to meet the ac cumulating demands upon that generosity, of which the Com mittee has been the zealous, and, they hope, the judicious instruments. The Committee request that any Subscribers wishing to be ` i nformed, in detail, of the application of the funds, will attend for that purpose at its weekly meetings, when all the accounts Will be laid before him for his examination. 'Amount of Subscriptions already announced £5,614 9 4 X. s. Friends to the Spanish --- -- Cause at Irvine, per the Scotsman -24 8 R.. F. J. - - 20 0 J.Butterworth,Esq.lll.P.lo JO An Englishman's last sovereign, left at the British Coffee-house 1 0 M. T., a Lady, per Col. Jones • - 1 0 From Lewes._ _ _ Lord Suffield - -25 0 Miss Sarah Morgan -10 0 John Auldjo, Esq. - 5 0 Geo. Bing, Esq., M.P. 50 0 .J. Dees ou l avy , E sq . - 1 1 I ,,gnotue - . 1 1 1 4aptain Gowan - 3 0 Mess r s, Thompson and Pearon - - 5 3 Mr. W. B. Priddle - 1 0 4 ". 11 . per Capt. Clive - 10 0 Qiippe vehor fatis - 2 0 Gm Robinson, Bart. , M.P. - 25 0 s'„;C•Western Esq. M.P. 20 0 ''''r Thomas Dyer, Bart 50 0 iM , • (Doncaster) -15 0 • Coates, El. - am en = cholefie m 2 2 ld, Esq. 4)eond subscription) 5 0 J''' n * . t , Tris from R um f or d 3 5 .B 1 • SYkes(Hull) - 10 0 oonifield t • 2 0 Mr. MP 11 ' . (1. - • arke r ernes, Esq ( ii. L. by T . 1 1. - 010 Rev. W. G. Townley 10 0 eo B B. C. - - 1 1 field) . Shen -1 0 E. A. Fordham, Esq. - 1 1 Om Mello F - Tradesmen e mp l o yed q -- 5 0 Captain Fox - -1 0 at Lord F. L. Gower - 20 0 Douglas Castle, per Rev. John Bouverie, per the Scotsman -2 1 Colonel Jones -10 0 J• F. Schiefer, Esq. 0. Hartop, Esq. M.P. (Ilfracombe) - 2 0 (second subscription) 10 0 The Committee hold their Sittings at the British Coffee house, Co ckspur-street, every Thursday, at One o'Clock. Subscription s will be received by all the Country B an k ers; by Messrs. Hoare, Barnett's, Hoare, & Lombard - street; 'lti d,by Messrs. Berries, Farquhar, and Co., Co., ' St. James's-street. Sir H. Blackman and Son 2 2 E. Johnston, Esq. - 5 0 Geo. Dalbiac, Esq. - 1 1 Samuel Flint, Esq. - 1 1 W. Johnston, Esq. - 1 1 W. Lee, Esq. - 1 0 J. K. . 1 0 Mr. Benjamin Brown - 0 5 Mr. W. Croaskey 0 10 Mr. John Winton. - 0 3 G. Al. - 1 0 K. W. (Chelsea) - 1 1 NEXT THURSDAY, 19th FEBRUARY. and J. SI EV NV RIG HT, Contractor* for the • Present P opu l ar LOTTERY, request their Friends to b ar in m i n d , t h at when the Minister brought in the Lottery 11 last Spring, he distinctly declared Government did not i ntend to have another, therefore People should embrace the W i d"al r ni exists, for NEXT Last T HURSDAY Lottery underi the the i le vious or Last Year's Act : the Schem e con t a i ns th e im 'nu number of SEVEN of £20,000 ! And there being between 7 arid 8,000 Tickets to be Drawn the Iroq Day, and every Blank to be put in the Wheel and drawn a kin, consequently there is the Chance for nothing of all the t?ating Capitals on that Day, besides the TWO £20,000 fIIitLING attached to the First-drawn Prizes; these will, %course, be decided in the First Five Minutes • and the ntractors trust, with their usual good fortune, to 'distribute ilese among their Friends, at their Offices, No. 37, Cornhill, liolborn, and 38 Ha ket ymar • Ilo,n Thursda next will e puhlisl•erl, v4 IIECTIONS y on the LIbEUTENANTCY y utAtED a new Method the above troublesome ` - '° , oPlaint is entirely eradicated, (without the use of cepC . °° Caustic), whether of long or stunt standing, ex 4tu cons titutional, as well as all weaknesses geusrally me taVnYing it, and in a short time th e whole systsuo is re. /17 - j t ;Lbed, being one of the greatest discoveries ever mode. tt . .. 'IN LYNCH, 44, Dukc- street , St. James ' s. t er cspectable references will be given, if requited.—All post. • „,. paid. Let 4l'be price of the Medicine is Four Pounds a parcel. th e effect Cure for Bilious Affections and Obstructions in 4uovrele. bftPUblished price ss . Brn ., the Third Edition ofab r.,"ACTICAL TREATISE 011 NERVOUS, " 11 ' 1(1LS ' tefv..."LANIMATORY AFFECTIONS, with a new Method 'ltith" r ing Strictures without the use of Bougie or Cosstic; Jo . 14, Appendix on the Diseases of Women, mid Children. LYNCH.—To he had of the Author, 44, DO" - ' " 1 t. James's. *** Secrecy will be observed. LITERARY No'mg. NARRATIVE of a JOURNEY to the SHORES of the POLAR SEA, in the years 1819, 20, 21, 22; by Jona( Fn.&xxx.rx, Captain R. N., F.R.S., 51.W.5., and Coin- mander of the Eipedi4on. The above work has been sometime published in quarto, and the sufferings of Captain FRANK... LIN and his party in the return from the Shores of the Polar Sea are so fully before the public that it would be superfluous to attempt a narra tion. The present edition is in two ♦olumes octavo, by which means general readers will be able to gratify their curiosity at a less expence. The plates and appendix of Natural History, &c. &c. are necessarily omitted, but the maps of the different routes of the party are giypn. In the introduction, Captain FRANKLIN gives some statements relative to the moral condition of the Indians. and servants belonging to the Company's posts, which are not included in the quarto edition. The information is such as every good Christian will be pleased to hear, and at the same time will feel surprise, that a coldness, almost as keen as the climate in that part of America, should have existed so long towards our fellow-creatures. We shall give the words of the intrepid Travellet : " In the ensuing narrative, the notices of the moral condition of the Indians, as influenced by the conduct of the traders to wards them, refer entirely to the state in which it existed during our progress through the.country ; but, lest I should have been mistaken respecting the views of .the Hudson's Bay Company on these points, I' gladly embrace the opportunity which a second edition affords me of stating, that the junction of the two Companies has enabled the Directors to put in practice the improvements which, I have reason to believe, they have long contemplated. They have provided for religious instruction by the appointment of two clergymen of the Established Church, under whose direction schoolmasters and mistresses are to be placed at such stations ax afford the means of support for the establishment of schools. The offspring of the voyagers and labourers are to be educateXchiefly at the expence of the Com pany; and s ac h o f t h e Indian children as their parents may wish to send to these schools, are to be instructed, clothed, and maintained at the expence of the Church Missionary Society, which has already allotted a considerable sum for these Isurposes, and it has also sent out teachers, who are to act under the sup er i nten d ence of t h e Reveren d Mr. WEST, the principal Chaplain of the Company. " We had the pleasure of meeting this gentleman at York Factory, and witnessed, with peculiar delight, the great benefit. which had already marked his zealous and judicious conduct. Many of the traders, and of the servants of the Company, have been induced to marry the women with whom they had cohabit ed ; a material step towards the improvement of the females in that country. " Mr. WErr, under the sanction of the Directors, has also promoted a subscription for the distribution of the Bible in every part where the Company's fur trade has extended, and which has met with very general support from the resident chief lectors, traders, and clerks. The Directors of the Com pany are continuing to reduce the distribution of spirits gra dually among the Indians, as well as their own servants, with a view to the entire disuse of them as soon as thin most desirable object can be accomplished. They have likewise issued out orders for the cultivation of the ground at each of the posts, by which means the residents will be far less exposed to famine whenever, through the scarcity of animals, the sickness of the Indians, or any other cause, their supply of meat may fail. " It is to be hoped that intentions so dear to every humane and pious mind, will, through the blessing of God, meet with the utmost success." In the hopes of the dauntless Traveller we most heartily join, and sincerely wish, that should his valuable life be spared through the perilous journey he is about to undertake to Mackenzie,' River, in the Polar Sea, we shall on his return learn that his recommendatiof► and the measures adopted by the Hudson's Bay Company have been attended with the most beneficial advan tages, and thus that the name of FRANKI : Iti, which is so well known in one part of America, may be extended to its most northern limit. IMPROVEMENTS IN WINDSOR. WINDSOR, FEB. 14.—The improvement in con. templstion here are not confined to the Royal residence—the town itself, it is expected, will largely participate in the good taste and benevolence which mark the intentions of his Ma jesty. In this view it is proposed to throw down the whole range of buildings front the New Church to the foot of what is termed the Hundred Steps, so called from the ascent to the cloisters of the Cathedral, by 140 steps at that spot. The effect of this will be to create an opening of several hundred L'et, which will be encircled by a new crescent, having in the centre the whole outward sweep of the Castle, at once bringing that magnificent object into full view from every part of the town, and one of the first that strikes the eye on entering it. The building which was called the Upper Lodge has been entirely removed, and nothing now remains to impede the completion of the New Cut to the entrance of the Castle on that side. A beautiful view over the Forest has been obtained by this alteration, and as it opens a direct communication with the Long-walk, by means of which that admired avenue may be elongated and brought up to the very walls of the Castle, it is now matter of surprise to all that the improvement was not sooner devised. At the extremity of the Long Walk, a distance of about three miles, is to be placed the equestrian statue of his late Majesty, upon which Mr. Westmacott has been for some time engaged. This will oc cupy a commanding situation on the summit of what is called Snow-Hill, upon a pedestal rising fifty feet above the ground, an elevation which will render it conspicuous from every part of the neighbourhood, and to a great distance on every side.— The effect has been twice tried by different models which have been erected for the personal inspection of his Majesty. The statue will be of bronze, and the figure will be made to point towards the Castle, the long and last abode of its representative. At the cottage, workmen have been for some time engaged in new roofing it with slate, the thatch having been found to har bour that obnoxious reptile the rat, which none of the ordinary means used have been successful in removing. Various alter ations are also going forward in the interior, tending to render it a more commodious residence during the hot season than it has hitherto been found. None of'the projected improvements made any progress during his Majesty's absence, it being understood to be his Majesty's wish to superintend them himself. The only change of importance now proceeding is, the taking down of Blenheim Tower, which is destined at once to restore the building to its original outline, and to throw a body of light into St. George's Hall, which has been wrapped in gloom ever since the erection of this tower. It is also a part of the plan for the alteration of the Castle to carry the terrace completely round it. M essrs. J. Wyatt, Nash, Soane, Smirke, and Mr. Mash, of the Board of Works, are employed in preparing plans,to be sub mitted to his Majesty, which will be ready, it is expected, in the course of a week. Mr. Matthew 'Wyatt has had audiences of his Majesty relative to the placing of the Cenotaph, executed by that Gentleman, in memory of the Princess Charlotte. It is about to be consigned, we understood, to the small Chapel off the south isle of the Cathedral. ROYAL ACADEMY.--Yesterday evening, J. FrAxstAs, Esq., R. A. gave his first Lecture on Sculpture, at the Royal Academy. Sir T. LAW.. nENCE presided on the occasion. We were sorry to observe a very thin attendance of both Acade micians and Students ; for, although there was nothing either striking or novel from his former Lectures, yet there was enough of information and intellience to deserve a better attendance. PARLIAMENT, HOUSE OF LORDS, FEB. 16. The LORD CHANCELLOR informed the House, that Sir Geo. Henry Rose wished that his son should, with their Lordships' permission, act as his substitute as clerk, instead' of Mr. Birch, who had hitherto discharged the duty. The Noble and Learned Lord, after highly commending the manner in which Mr. Birch had executed the duties of the offiee, moved that the request of Sir George Rose be complied with. The Earl of LIVERPOOL concurred in the approbation which the Chancell or h a d expresse d o f M r . Bi rc h' s conduct, and supported the motion. He also availed himself of the opportunity which this question afforded, to remind their Lord ships of the conversation which took place a few days ago, re specting the appointment of a Committee to inquire into the state of the office of Clerk of Parliament, and intimated that he would on some early day call their Lordships' attention to the appointment of a Committee by which the entire regulation of the.office should be taken into consideration. _ . Lord HOLLAND thought that no time ought to be lost in commencing the inquiry. The present was the most conve nient time for the execution of such a task, and the whole sub ject ought to be gone into. The motion being agreed to, Mr. Rose took his place at the table. A person from the Custom-house presented copies of orders of Council exempting vessels belonging to the Kingdoms of Hanover and the Netherlands from taking en board pilots in certain cases ; and also for levying duties on American vessels. The Bishop of EXETER presented a petition, from a place the name of which was not heard, praying for relief from the duty on coals carried coastwise. The Marquis of LANSDOWN moved for a variety of papers relating to Ireland, as the composition of tithes, opera tion of the Insurrection Act, &c. These papers, he observed, had already been or d ere d to b e l a id b e f ore t h e ouse of Com mons, and he wished them to be on the table of their Lord ships' house previous to t 11• discussion of the motion of which a Noble Earl (Darnley), not then in his place, had given no tice. The papers were ordered.—Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mr. BLACKBURNE presented a petition from the town and neighbourhood of Lancaster, praying for a commutation of tithes. TAX ON COALS. Petitions were presented, praying for a repeal of the duties on Coals carried coastwise, from 600 inhabitants of Ulverstone, by Mr. STANLEY ; f rom t h e i n h a bi tants o f S t . I ves , by Si r C. BAWKINS from the Mayor and Corporation of the Borough of Deal, by Sir E. KNATCHDOLT„. from the inhabitants of Ilfracombe and Iloldsworth, by Sir T. D. ACLAND ; from a village in Cornwall, by Sir W. LEMON ; from the inhabitants of Teignmouth, by Captain BarrAnD ; from those of Staines, by Colonel WOOD ; from the town of Minehead, by Sir T. LETHBRIDGE ; from the Isle of Portland, by Mr. Pon •r- MAN ; from the, inhabitants of Romford, and also those of Raynham, by Sir EI.IAE ILtnvicr. Sir W. GUISE presented a petition from the woollen-manu factures of the County of Gloucester, against the importation of foreign wool. Mr. Alderman WOOD moved, that there laid before the House. a Return of the total quantity of Spirits imported in the last year from Scotland into England.—Ordered. Mr. MABERLY Fare notice, that l ie should move to morrow for the production of certain Returns relative to Malt and Beer. Mr. F. LEWIS rose in consequence of the indisposition of his Right Hon. Friend, the Master of the Mint, who wished to be present at the Debate, to ask an Hon. Baronet on the other side of the House to postpone to some future day his motion for " An Address for inquiring how far the Coin of the Realm may be adapted to decimal calculation." Sir J. WitOT'iESI4EV, in consequenceof the request of the Hon. Gentleman, postponed his motion till Wednesday se'nnight. USURY LAWS' REPEAL BILL. On the motion that this Bill be read a second time, Mr DAVENPORT rose to give to it his most decided op. p os ition. - The co untry had g rown great and flourished under present syst e m, of law—where, then, was the necessity of altering it ? Besides, the alteration proposed would be particu larly disastrous to persons with small landed estates, and would absolutely ruin all those who had bought them ten years ago when land was high, and when there was no objection to leav ing part of the purchase-money unpaid upon it. This Bill might raise, but could not lower, the present rate of interest ; and as he felt more for the borrower than he did for the lender, he could do no less then move, as an amendment, that this Bill be read a second time this day six months. Mr. BRANSBY COOPER seconded the amendment, because he thought that the repeal of the Usury Laws would open a door to fraud and extortion on the one hand, and to reckless profusion and extravag ance on the other. Mr. HUME contended that this bill was quite as much to the advantage of him who borrowed as of him who lent money. It would, be thought, b ebeneticial to all classes of society, if the lending of the • money was assimilated to the .practice ob. served in effecting insurances, - where the person by whom a ship or cargo was insured was not prevented by any statute from demanding whatsoever rate he pleased. Every transaction of this kind ought to come fairly before the public;, and if any thing unjust or unfair appeared to have been done, the indi vidual aggrieved might seek redress through the common law of the country. He could see no reason whatsoever for post 'rting po the second reading of th e Bill. It ought to be fully discussed, and an opportunity given to those who opposed it to bring forward their arguments, if they had any. It ought to be observed, that the ordinary interest of money was, at the present moment, from three to four per cent., being considera bly under the rate fixed by the statute. The country was, in his opinion, much obliged to the Learned Gentleman for pent veringwiththis measure. • Sir J. WRO"I"I'ESLEY supported the amendment. During 300 years the uniform practice of the Government of this coun try had been to prevent extortion and usury, by enacting those laws which some individuals now wish to be repealed. This country, instead of being injured, had been greatly benefitted by the Usury Laws. Since the period of the last Act, that of Queen Anne, there was no country in which capital had accumulated to so great an extent as it had done in England ; and yet they were now called upon to repeal laws which brought the whole capital of the country into the metropolis. If they were repealed, it ought not to be on mere theoretical grounds—some practical good should be pointed out as like ly to be effected by the measure. He contended that those laws had done no practical injury to the landed interest. In times of distress, it was true, they borrowed money at a great disadvantage. But it should not be forgotten, that when they gave redeemable annuities, those annuities might, in time, be taken up. The persons who now lent money to the land inte rest at 3i per cent., would, if those laws were repealed, change their demand with every fluctuation. Now they would have 4, now 5, now 6 per cent. In short, there would be no cer tainty in the money market. If, in the time of distress, the landed interest could borrow money at 5 per cent., what would become of the commercial interest? In proportion as the secu rity they had to offer was worse than that afforded by the landed interest, would the lender demand a more exorbitant rate—not less nerhaps than 10 or 12 per cent. In tact, the mercantileand manufacturing interests would be reduced to the utmost distress if those laws were repealed. Let the House also consider the situation in which the Government would be placed. During the last war, whilst the mutiny in the Nore was raging, when the Bank Restriction Act was passed, and when the public funds were under 50, no difficulty was experienced in borrowing money : but he was convinced, if those laws had not then. ex isted, that Government would not have been able to raise the money which was absolutely necessary. They would not have had that preference in the market which they ought always to have ; and they would have been compelled to pay an interest of 10 or 12 per cent. If, therefore, the repeal of those laws was calculated to starve the merchant and manufacturer, and to beggar the Government, the House ought to throw out this Bill, and that, too, by such a majority as would induce the Learned Gentleman never-again to bring it forward. Air. J. SMITH said, the lion. Baronet seemed to fear that the mercantile and manufacturing classes, and even the Go vernment itself, must suffer by the repeal of those laws. Now, without entering into much argument on those points, it might he enough to state, that the laws against usury had been done away all over Europe, and no harm• had occurred either to go varnment. or to individuals; but, on the contrary, it was to be believed that the interests. of all parties.' were, much improved by that repeal.—(Bear !)—One or two circumstancechad come under lais own observation, which proved that those laws had occasioned the most destructive effects to families in this coun try, by compelling them to raise money by way of annuity.,_ (Hear!)—Money, like every other commodity, ought to be al lowed to fetch its just value in the market. Now, if an indivi dual wanted to borrow money, which if these laws were not in existence, he might procure for 7/. per cent., he would be ob liged, in his endeavour to evade those laws, to pay 13, 14; or -even 15 per cent.—( Hear !)—The Hon. Baronet-had only to refer to the evidence given before the Committee, and there he would find those facts distinctly proved. The Hon. Baronet expressed sonic fears as to the situation in which the corinner cial body would be placed, if this Bill passed. -Now he (Mv. Smith), as one of that body, must say that he had not the slightest apprehension on the subject. He confessed: that he never had met a man for whose judgment he had any respect, who entertained a doubt on the question.—(Hear Mr. GRENFELL said, the chief argument against the Bill was, that the effect of the repeal of the usury laws would be to raise the interest of money. Now, in Holland, there never was any restraint on money dealings; and he could state it from his own experience, as well as from history, that there was no country in Europe where the rate of interest has been and is so low as in the United Provinces.—(Hear !)—He hoped, there fore, that Government would countenance this measure, which was in perfect unison with the liberal course of policy they had recently adopted. Mr. HUSKISSON said he had been a Member of the Com mittee to whom this subject was referred in 18113, and who had reported their sentiments to the House. The opinion he bad formed in that Committee he still entertained. „Indeed he had never varied from it. He need hardly say that it was entirely , in unison with the object of the Learned Sergeant. Ile con sidered those laws as only calculated to create difficulties.-- (Hear, hear !) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, when this question was brought before the House last session, he voted against the proposition, not because there was any ad vantagein the principle of the existing laws, against which, on the contrary, many arguments could be advanced—but be cause he was not prepared to say that the moment had arrived when Parliament ought to repeal those laws. lie did not think that the opposition to the measure was now so strong as it was last year; and if it were desirable at all that those laws should be altered, he conceived the present period was as good as could be selected.—( Bear !) Mr. CALCRAFT said it would be very difficult, he was aware, to defend those laws in point of principle ; hut, in point of practice, he must say that it would be dangerous with out a great deal more consideration, to alter those laws in a country where there was so general and so beneficial a distri bution of capital, and where money was to be had at all times at a low rate of interest. If the Learned Gentleman with whom this measure originated thought, while Government was in the market, that any change of the law would make the loan of money cheaper to individuals, he was very much mistaken. He (Mr. Calcraft) believed the repeal of those laws would raise the price of money to Govern ment, instead of reducing it. Gentlemen seemed to suppose, that by carrying this measure, individuals would be saved from ruin, because they would not then be obliged to get into those annuity-contracts under which so many families suffered : they believed that a complete end would be put to all ruinous money contracts. But it was utterly impossible to hope for any such result, unless at the same time that those laws were repealed, they contrived to alter the conduct and temper of individuals.— By repealing those laws they would facilitate the borrowing of ' money by extravagant persons, without conferring any advan tage on the steady and industrious part of the community, whom they ought especially to protect. He was not on the corn mittee.—( The Bon. M ember was here reminded that he was a member of the committee.) —lf he were on the committee, he had certainly forgotten the circumstance.—(A laugh.)—He had, however, read the evidence; and, had he known that the Learned Sergeant's brat, which had been bandied about froin Session to Session, was to have been taken tip by Government, be would have brought down that evidence, and proved that it did not bear out the view of those who supported this measure. No advantage had been pointed out that would at all warrant them on such a speculation. There w as n o country, n embarking; itself, in which wealth had so grea tly in eomt even bar fl Icn increased as it had done in England during the period when those laws were in operation. Mr. lierjeant ONSLOW defended the bill. The Gentle man who seconded the amendment and the Ilonourable Bart. had fallen into very great mistakes with regard to these laws. —They had spoken of the policy in which the usury .laws ori ginated; r t os ty o i s fc , ou t us h ru e sree e r a st r h : yewllrai who charged ihill w ag; ' r a go s eft w i i n i o l but let them look to the preamble of the old law, and. they would find it therein stated, that, to take interest at praised a n i propor tion d the as all was highly criminal, because it was "against a Christian money o they i to the risk they ran, but who charged also on account of highly h p a ri n v d e s ip o l p f e o . i h i politic. the odium they were compelled to endure. They were told that this mearure would destroy the landed interest, who at present could raise money by redeemable annuities. So_ they could, and so they had done ; and the evidence taken before the Committee proved that they paid 10, 12, 13, and even 14 per cent. This was the excellent remedy which the Hon. Baronet wished them to resort to. It was also said that the commercial interest would be borne down by this measure. Let them look at the evidence again, and attend also to what'had fallen from his Hon. Friend (Mr. Smith). It was notorious that com mercial men, when in difficulties, had, to evade these laws, borrowed stock, and lost 30 per cent. by selling it. His prin ciple was, that like all other trades, die trade is money should be unfettered. Mr. A. BARING said, the subject of making a change in the usury law* WM, undoubtedly, one of very considerable im portance. It was, however, a change which would produce no immediate effect whatever; and it was because it would not produce any effect that the present appeared to hint to be the best time for making the alteration—if for no other purpose than to remove a system of false legislation on this subject. It was, as his Hon. Friend had said, as improper to fix a maxi mum on the value of money, as on the value of any other article whatever. This was the only period, for the last half century, when Parliament could safely legislate on those laws, in support of which the ingenuity of those who approved of them afforded no argument. It was stated, that notwithstanding these laws, there had been a great accumulation of money in this country. But the reason was, because those laws, with respect to capitalists and monied men, had been quite inoperative, as they were v e ry easily evaded. t was strange that the very class which would above all others be be benefitted by the repeal of those laws, namely, the country gentlemen, should view the measure with so much apprehension.—(Hear!) —The interest taken in this subject by that very respectable class of men was most evident; and therefore the question ought to be discussed, in order that they might declare their sentiments, and that an endeavour should be made to remove their apprehensions and prejudices, if possible. lf, in the subsequent stage of the proceedings, those who supported the measure were not able to persuade the coun try gentlemen that this Bill would not be injurious, but favour able to them, they might then except from its provisions all loans of money on mortgage, and repeal the law as it respected. the manufacturer and merchant. If the country gentlemen pleased, they would thus be left to enjoy all the benefits of the present system, which, so far from being useful, appeared to be the greatest- injury and curse they could labour under.—(Hear !) Captain 3IABE RI. Y, Sir W. DE CRESPIGN Y, anti Mr. J. M ART 1 x, severally expressed themselves in favour of the Bill. The House then divided, when the numbers- were— Tor the Bill - 120 Against it - 23 Majority for the second reading - - 79 On re-entering the gallery, we found the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER on his legs, moving that the• Report of the Committee on Ways and Means be brought up. It was not his intention, the Right Hon. Gentleman said, to move those votes on the present occasion which related to An nual Duties, because he understood that it was the intention of an lion. Member (Mr. Bright) to move an amendment with respect to the tax on Foreign Spirits. Mr. Bitinwr and- Mr. MABERLY said a few words, after which this course was assented to. DEPUTY REMEMBRANCEBSHIP OF THE EX CHEQUER. Mr. BARING requested to he informed of the circmstances under which Mr. Vincent, after the death of the late Deputy Rentembrancer, Mr. Steele, had been appointedAo this office. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that : Mr. Vincent's appointment was temporary. The Liw whichcatne into operation-at the deathof Mr. Steele did . not provide for the abolition of the office of Deputy Retnembrancer, or fix the manner in which the duties of that. office should. henceforward, be performed ; it only•required that,' whenever thakevent took, place the- Lords of the- Treasury should determine , what. sho4, Le titauture duties_ of . titt office, Mid: Whfli IlhQUid; the extent of the emolument arising from it. The Lords of the Treasury, accordingly, upon the death of Mr. Siteeif, • lost no time in calling upon the Barons of the Exchequer sr and upon the Chancellor of-the Exchequer,,t,o report to•thent as to the nature of the office; but the tact was, that_. the - it,• from the nature and constitution of the Exchequer, weizet•ala -30111 tely necessary to be continued until some new •systegi could be arranged; and it was not very easy to decide ,by • what system the business would be best done, and with jiai,t expence to the public. Pending ,this• inquiry, howeyer, Mr. Vincent had been appointed. He was required, himselgtO perform the duties of th e place, and allowed - tio,cleputy;atM he was directed to receive the accustomed tees for the,present,. not keeping them for himself, but paying them into the copeo litlated furd ; the Lords of the Treasury, of course, reserving to themselves the power of giving him_ an adequate competuna tion for his labour. For himself, thg•Chancellpr of the .I'...4Che quer added, he was most anxious to regulate the office in that • way which should be most conducive to the public servicel'and whatever difficulty there might be in determining the precise mode in whiCh the necessary duties should be executed, 'there could be no doubt they would be performed at a considerable less expence than they had been heretofore. For the appoint- • ment of Mr. Vincent, it was merely temporary ; and there was a full-understanding that he was to have no claim to the,situa— tion when the Treasury should he prepared to arrange a permit-. nent establishment. • Mr. BARING professed himself satisfied with the Right Hon. Gentleman's explanation ; and trusted that the new al.- , rangement would amount to a complete remodelling of the Exchequer. It was high time that the country got rid of a system of keeping accounts so cumbrous and so•ineffici:nt, that it might almost disgrace a tribe of Indian savages. WAYS AND MEANS. The report was then brought up, and.the resolutions read. To the pension duty Mr. HUME objected as partial and unproductive. The whole sum produced by this duty,was 300,00 W. a 'year ; for the Treasury had power to relieve any persons or classes from it that they might think fit. As. it seemed to him, the tax. ought to be re-modelled, or entirely abolished and he should take a further opportunity (as we understood the honourable Gentleman) of adverting to the subject. The resolutions were then agreed to. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY. On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER; that the house should resolve itself into a Committee of Supply, , . Mr. HUME rose to present a petition connected with the charges for the Navy. The petitioner was a gentleman of the name of Burridge, who had lately written upon the subject of " Dry Rot ;" and the petition stated very-extensive injury ac cruing of late years front that disease to our shipping ; inso much, that nearly one-half the vessels in the Navy were more sea-worthy o t o r t r y e or less visited by it; and s evera l s hi ps , t h e L or d N e l son , the . Lord Howe, the Queen Charlott e , an d o th ers , h a d l a t e ly, u p on a survey, been. found to be en ti re l y d estroye d. Th e peti tioner added, that it would app ear , upon ca l cu l at i on, t h at ow ingl to this disease, the number of 1 h repress s s )e which evil.a at present composed our Navy was sm a ll er t h an t h at which ; and prayed that the 3 w Bl e or a. h ri a ii du of e . Admiraltyawinatsa desirous i n e e s t i l ro in l wouldi thelil :to know w h at t h e Admiralty n s etyearake m 7 was prepared to do in this matter, which seemed to him to be one of the very highest importance. It was quite certain that the English oak had not been used formerly to decay, as it did now. For the coal tar, which had been supposed a remedy, he understood that it did nothing but mischief ; it injured the health of the men, and did no good to the timber. He was in_ formed that ships built in America,_ from wood felled at th e season when the sap was not in the tree, were not subject. to. dry rot,—or at least, not in the same degree with those built by us, from wood felled when the sap was in it. Whatever might be the merits of the petition, he thought there could be no doubt that the subject was one which demanded the fullest at-. tention and discussion. NAVY ESTIMATES.. Sir GEORGE CLERK rose to bring forward the Navy Es. , timates for the present year; and, after the great reductions which had already taken place in our naval department, (lid not apprehend that any further ones were likely to be proposed.— The vote called for this year was 320,0001. more than had been taken last, because it was necessary to make some small addition to our present force. He anticipated no objection to this from the gentlemen on the other side, because their com plaint for some time had. been rather that cur naval establish ment was too low. The unsettled state of some partsof the world to which the commerce of England was now, with every pros pect of advantage, extending itself, would fully excuse the trifling additional expence which was contemplated ; and in ad. dition to this. consideration, there was the probability that the piratical depredations in the West Indies, which now were en tirely stopped, would recompence if our strength in that.quar ter was withdrawn,;. and the necessity for maintaining out power in the Mediterranean, aslong as the present disputes ex . isted between Turkey and her Greek dependencies. With re., apect to the petition which had been presented by the Hon. Member for Aberdeen, the subject was already under the con sideration of the Admiralty, who was. not blind to its import ance. The fact was, in some measure, that from. o,e great. exigencies of the late war service; it had been found necessary. to build ships without those precautions, which would have been used under circumstances. of full leisure. Timber had 'been used, in many cases, which was not sufficiently season, ed. We were now, however, using every means to avoid: the evil to which the Honourable Member for Aberdeen alluded. Ships were built under cover ; the timber employed was pet-. fectly dry ' • and the coal-tar—as to the harmle ss n ess o f w hich he had understood the Honourable Member to be satisfied , — the coal-tar was made use of, and as was believed, with good effect. Independent of these precautions, an experimet t was now making whether the dry rot might not be prevented by immersing the wood in salt water before it was worked up ; and lie begged to.state that the Comptroller of the Navy, whose information upon the matter was much better than his (Sir George Clerk's) own, would be fully prepared to answer, if ne cessary, all the allegations in the Hon. Member for Aber deen's petition. The Hon. Baronet concluded, by stating, that- the extra charge of 320,000/. incurred, was to meet the , cost of 4,000 additional seamen (making our establishment, from 26;000 men, 29,000, including a 'force Of 9,000 marines), together with certain expenses arising out of the increased price of provi sions ; and by moving that a sum not- exceeding 885,950/. should be granted for wages for the Navy, for the year corn mencing January, 1824. Mr. WARRE wished to put. a question with respect-. to the. arrangements of the preventive service, which had established a sort of gentiormerie—for it could be compared to nothing else— upon our shores. The high duties imposed in time of war were, now that France and England were at peace, operating as such a bounty-upon contraband trade as. no vigilance could-with stand, and producing actually a regulargusrilla warfare between the Government force and the smugglers. We had now no fewer than 1,700 men employed in the preventive service, patrolling-upon our coast. He wished also to,know if, in case of any addition being made to the fbrce appointed to the coast blockade, the additional forces would be put under the same commands as at present. There was one ship of war stationed in the Downs to watch over aline of coast so extensive, that the officer who there held..controul was either on horseback or in the boat, night and day continually, for weeks together. This he might do from his.zeal and anxiety to complete a system of his own creation ; but. it was , too much for the country. to receive from the service of. any one man. For his own part, he did not believe that while .the duties on foreign spirits and wine were as high as at present, they ever would be able to prevent smuggling. It was impossible to make those persona. who were engaged in bringing in contraband commodities feel any moral compunctions upon the subject of their: employment, while they were tempted with. the bounty offered -by the prevent. enormously high duties. His only object, however,lrerising, was to know- if any, and what:portion of this:additional force of 6,000 men was to be put under- the command of the gallant officer.to whom he had alluded. Sir G. CLERK said, thatit was the intention of Government to continue the system of the Preventive Service as at present, established ; which, notwithstanding the remarks of the Hen. Member; had operated' with most complete success. There hacl, been one violent and bloody affray upon the coast of Kent, which had been much dwelt on by the opponents of. the system,; but it : was. merely the last desperate-efforts of the, srouggler . s in that. part to defend, their •unlawlnl occupation against. . the encroachments of the PreventiveService..' was ,vtry, true that Captain M'Culloch had - his• whole heart : in. the success, of the' system,. of which- .he:. thei egntriYert and that: his duties were- of: a veep weighty,. kind,. his. corm:nap& .reaching-iniextenk front. Chichester., , weßkwitolt, to;:tho: isle. o( Sheppey, eastward. Of the additional force now asked seen were.:to plate& mkt. the:. sOparintAndarrocand sec - tiOnlOf . XheLiwriettAkessiktix:ethivlriclin t tbilt vision made the running of - spirits more easy than in other