The Sun. — London, England, 1849-06-02 00:00:00

foreign power in question for permission that vessels with the mails might pass, but he had not yet received an ans wer to the application. Mr. G. SANDARS bad been informed that as many as 36 vessels, most of which were foreign, had been allowed to pass this blockaded port. Lord PALMERSTON said Government had sent out a steamer to ascertain if the blockade was completed, but the shores of the Elbe could not be so effectually blockaded as to keep out all vessels. No doubt some Teasels had effected an entrance at night, but it must be remembered thy: they did so at a risk, and were liable to be afterwardi seized and condtemned. SUPPLY. The House then went into Committee of Supply. On the question that 103,4671. be granted for addi tions and repairs of Royal Palaces, Mr. B. OSBORNE said no man in the House had greater respect for the Sovereign of the country than himself. While he was sure he was only expressing the feeling of the House in saying that he was most anxious that the Sovereign should be lodged in a way that would do credit to the country and the station she occupied in Europe, at the same time he thought the House was bound to inquire into the system in which these enormous sums were year after year brought before the House of Commons for public palaces. He was sure the Sovereign would he the last individual in the country to wish that system to continue without proper inquiry being made into it. Now on the first page of this estimate he saw 7501. for Buckingham Palace ; but if the House would take the trouble to turn over the next few pages. they would find an additional sum of 50,0001. fur the same building. By the report of a Committee appointed in 1831 to inquire into the state of Windsor and Buckingham Palaces it appeared that, exclusive of the marble arch, there had been expended on Buckingham Palace no less a sum than 613,2961, which, added to the 150,0001. granted last year, made an aggregate sum of 763,2961., besides the grants for furniture, &c. Now, for such a sum as that they ought to have been able to build a palace fitting the Sovereign of the country, instead of which they had got a patched up building, erected in a hole. So much, then, for BuckinghamPalace.—(Laughter.) He had not the least disrespect for the Sovereign, but he could not forbear calling attention to a vote of 6,5001 for new stables at Windsor, and for supplying them with water. Then, again, flushing and cleansing the drains was charged at 16,5501. The Noble Lord at the head of the Government stated, last night, that where round figures were put down that it meant that a further sum would be required. He, therefore, called particular attention to the vote, because it might be inferred that it was only preliminary to a further sum. The House might say that it was a small sum ; but he found from the report of the Committee of 1841, that the expenditure upon Windsor Castle, from 1824 to 1836, had amounted to the enormous sum of 1,498,516/. — (Hear, hear) —making, with what was required this year, a total of 1,515,000/, exclusive of the sums voted to the Woods and Forests for furnishing and other matters. They told other nations that they were the guardians of the public purse ; but he denied that they were. It was disgraceful that so large a sum should have been spent upon two palaces, one of which was not fit to put a Sovereign in. He would not put the H ,use to the trouble of a division, as he might only get a "baker's dez m" to go out into the lobby with him ; but he called upon the House to express a strong opinion upon this excessive expenditure. Why, if they went on at this rate, the whole of the re venue of the country would be swallowed up in the build ing of palaces.—(Hear, hear.) Why, the estimate for the new Palace at Westminster was 750,000/.; but already they had spent 2,000,0001. upon it—(Hear)—and they were disfiguring the House of Lords by erecting a hideous gallery, which would spoil the beautiful proportions of the building. And in the new House of Commons not a word would be heard, hut perhaps that would be an advantage to some Hon. Members.—(Laughter.) Again, he saw in the estimates a small sum, since it was 41. 14 but he mentioned it for another reason—namely, from its beitng applied to the purposes of the abominable Palace Court, to which he wished to draw the attention of the Noble Lord the Member fur Marylehone.—(Hear.) The miscellaneous estimates were, however, so large that it was impossible to follow them. He suggested that for the future all the sums expended upon public buildings should be carried on, as at present Members thought that new sums were required, and they were consequently deceived. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER hoped the Hon. and Gallant Member would not deny that Buckingham Palace was a handsome building. To save money it was essential that repairs should be made. Mr. OSBORNE did not object to repairs. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—At the time the money referred to was expended on drains at Windsor Castle there were no drains. Mr. SLANEY said he remembered that a survey was made of Windsor by Sir H. Delabeche, and that he reported that improved drainage was necessary for the health of the town. Sir DE LACY EVANS hoped that the barracks at Windsor would not be forgotten. The vote was agreed to. BUCKINGHAM PALACE. On the next vote, 14,2001. for enlarging and improv ing Buckingham Palace, Mr. OSBORNE inquired whether there was any esti mste of the expense of furnishing Buckingham Palace? The CHANC.ELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was able to give what the Hon. Gentlemao,he betived,_would regard as •-ta very satisfactory answer—that the public would be put to no expense at all in that respect. Mr. OSBORNE said, that in this vote there was a sum, he,observed, of 2001. for the expense of pulling down the marble arch. This arch had cost upwards of 80,000/. in the cr. ction, and now there was to be a fur:ll-3e sum for pulling it down. He should very much lik , ? to know what was to be done with this arch? The CIIANCELLOsit of the EXCHEQUER said that, in reply to the Hon. Member, he really could not say what was to be done with the arch, for nothing had at present been decided upon, but one thing was very plain, and that was that the arch could not continue where it was.—(Laughter.) The vote was then passed. COMMITTEE-ROOMS, So. On the vote for 3,2841. to defray the cost of Committee rooms and ether temporary accommodations in the new Houses of Parliament, Mr. OS liiiRNE said he hardly thought that the House were aware- that since the temporary accommothtions had been aff aided not less than 200,0001. had been spent upon them.—(Hear, hear.) Then, again, there was another item to which he thought no suffi cient attention had ever been directed, and that was the charge of 120,e00i. for ventilation. Not that he was in clined to find fault with the ventilation—(Hear, hear) — but he wished the House to see what they paid for it. Then there was another charge which ho wished to brieg under their notice, and in doing so he was anxious to bear the opinion of the Under-Secretary for the Colonies, respee:ing those hideous galleries which were now being erected in the House of Lords. That Right I. in. Gentleman was a member of the Fine Arts Com mission, and. as in all probability they would see the expense of them charged in next year's estimates, he. should like to have his opinion.—(Hear.) He objected ta money being. expended on temporary erections, and would advise the Hoti.) to refuse their countenance, fur it was his firm impression that unless the House put the screw on the Chancellor of the Exchequer they would never sit in the new House at all.—(Laughter.) The vote wa.; then agreed to. HOLYHEAD HARBOUR. The sum of 95.7711. for completing th© Harbour a Holyhead for the accommodation of her Majesty's mai s:eam-packets was then agreed to: HARBOURS OF REFUGE. On the vote for 141,5001. fur completing the Harbours of Refuge, Mr. M. GIBSON wished to inquire whether these harbours were for commercial or for military purposes. lie understood that these harbours, for commercial pur poses, were. more likely to be harbours of destruction than of safety. The French, he understood, termed the harbour at Dover a harbour of aggression instead of After a few observations from Mr. THORNELY and the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER the vote was agreed to. CALEDONIAN CANAL. vote of 10,0001. for works and repairs upon the Caledonian Canal was agreed to without discussion. PUBLIC BUILDINGS (IRELAND). Upen a vote of 24,2331. being proposed for the ex pense of maintaining several public buildings belonging to the department of public works in Ireland, and also for the purposes of inland navigation, under the direc tion of the said Commissioners, Mr. SPOONER moved, as an amendment, that the vote should be reduced by 1,223/. IF. 7d., that sum being required for certain repairs in connexion with May- Do.,th College. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House divided, when there appeared— For the reduction Against it Majority KINGSTON HARBOUR. A vote for 9,5501. for defraying the expenses of the works and repairs at Kingston Harbour, was agreed to without discussion or division. SALARIES OF PARLIAMENTARY OFFICERS. A vote for 93,2001. for the salaries of officers and expenses of the two Houses of Parliament, and the sala ries of retired officers, was agreed to without discussion. TIIE TREASURY. On the vote for 57,2004 for the salaries and expenses of her Majesty's Treasury being read, Mr. GOULBURN said ho could not concur in the principle on which the reduction had been made in those salaries. He did not deny that by this arange ment a large amount of money was saved, but it was very bad economy to save money at the expense of the efficiency of the departments. It was highly important that the subordinate officers of such depart ment of the state should be efficient individuals, well versed in the usages and rules of Parliament, but let them not. establish a system which should place great power and vast duties in the hands of only a few individuals. It was much better to have one responsible h e ed over each department, and spread the duties over a number of subordinate officers, who shouli ba entitled to promotion according to merit and seniority. He therefore thought the ar rangement now proposed of reducing the subordinate officers was an ill-advised one. Under an Act of Parlia ment persons who held offices of a quasi freehold nature ~in the old county courts were justly declared entitled to csipensation for the loss of those offices consequent on - establishment of the new county courts. The Hon. gopher' for Sheffield (Mr. Parker), who formerly held : ,/, l' :-: ~.1 A the officio of. ecretary to the Treasury, and now filled ( r:i. igi‘VgSeerejes y to the Admiralty, was entitled to 1,2001. / ... , '" ?. 'l lc year: A U°, ensati o n f or th e l os s of one of those offices, c' ~.1, ; - -v bt k ilu'had re sed to accept it. At a time when endea .- 0 . ...1 vouri wersi mg made by a certain party to persuade 44,1 ; d ie public s At public men were greedily intent upon .ig c. N . r augmenting their incomes, it was desirable that a fact so honourable to that Hon. Member should be conveyed to the pubis in a more direct mann er than it could be by the return upon the table, in which the circumstance was somewhat obscurely alluded to.—(Hear, hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thanked the Right Hon. Gentleman for the notice he had taken of the sacrifice made by the Hon. Gentleman the Secre tary to the Admiralty. With reference to the reductions which the Right Hon. Gentleman had remarked upon, he took upon himself all the blame of the alterations, but he certainly thought then, and continued to think, they were quite justified by the circumstances. The opinion of those best able to judge of the value of the reductions had been taken, and he believed there was a general opinion that by these reductions the efficiency of the Treasury departments had been improved. Mr. HENLEY said, as wo had cut down prices by the liberal system of policy, it was impossible to keep up the old scale of payment to public servants. All classes should be obliged to take their share of the general loss. As the Treasury was the principal department of the Government, he thought the present vote presented a suitable opportunity for proposing a reduction, and he should therefore move that a reduction of 10 per cent., or 5,0401., be made in the proposed grant. Mr. DRUMMOND said that effectual reductions could only be made by the Administration itself, and he thought the best thing the House could do would be to adopt some such resolution as that which he had placed on the table, and to say " We can afford to pay so much no longer.—(Hear, hear.) The reduction of the salaries of persons in public offices was a matter of some diffi culty, and the increase of the public business required a great number of servants, especially in the higher de partments. He considered the proposed reduction merely a drop in the ocean; but acting on the principle which he had uniformly supported, he should give it his support.—( Hear.) Colonel THOMPSON did not see why, at a time when something like a national jubilee had taken place, her Majesty's servants should be expected to give up their chance of a participation in the reductions which had taken place in the price of the necessaries of life. Mr. F. O'CONNOR did not know what the public would think of the declaration just made by the Gallant Colonel, who, on the hustings, was such an enthusiastic admirer of financial reform. He (Mr. O'Connor) thought the Government the proper parties to commence with, and therefore should vote for the proposition of the Hon. Member for Oxfordshire, than whom the working classes had no more sincere friend.—(Hear.) After a few words from Mr. LOCKHART, Mr. SLANEY expressed his opinion that the redac tion which bad taken place in the price of articles of consumption would not be (permanent; and, therefore, thought the reduction proposed by the Hon. Gentleman ought not to be so hastily made. Many of the members of the executive were not paid a farthing too much for their labour. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the salaries of the Government had been inquired into, and remained at the amount recommended by two separate Committees. In the year 1831, on the motion of Mr. Ashburton, a Committee was appointed to consider the salaries of the higher officers. A considerable reduction was recommended by that Committee on many of the salaries, and they have ever since remained at the amount fixed at that time. In the course of the last session the subject was again gone into. A pioposal was made before the Committee to reduce the salary of the First Lord of the Treasury, and on a division the number of votes fur rataining the salary at 5,0001 a year was 11, and for reducing it 2; and he found the name of the Hon. Member for Oxfordshire in the majority.—(A laugh.) A similar proposition was made with respect to the salary of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and on a division the result was the same. The proposal of the Hon. Gentleman was not confined to the higher salaries, but would extend to the smaller ones. Now the Hon. Member for the West Riding said, the other day, ho did not think the public servants were overpaid. Mr. COBDEN—I beg pardon. I spoke of the army and navy when I said that the officers in the service are not overpaid, but that there are more than are wanted. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought the allusion of the Hon. Member had been general. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) entertained a strong opinion that the public servants employed in the different offices were, generally speaking, not an overpaid body of men, and one proof of this might be found in the fact, that these officers were not unfrequently tempted to quit the public service by the prospect of higher pay elsewhere.—(Hear.) Mr. Alderman SIDNEY said be should vote for the proposed reduction, considering it a step in the right direction. He thought a reduction of 10 per cent. per fectly justifiable, when articles of consumption generally had undergone a reduction of from 20 to 25 per cent. As this was a question on which her Majesty's Govern ment had a pecuniary interest, he thought they ought to abstain from voting, and leave it to the decision of independent Members.—(Hear.) After a few words from Sir H. VERNEY and Mr. HENRY, Sir J. TYRELL reminded the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that the inquiry of 1831 was a political move by the party to which the Right Hon. Gentleman belonged. lie felt indebted to the Hon. Member for Oxford for having made the mo• tion, and thereby testing the sincerity of the economical school of Manchester. Mr. GOULBURN said the Hon. Member for Oxford had rested his proposition on the general reduction that had taken place in the price of commodities from the le gislation of 1842 and 1846. lie was glad to hear an Hon. Member ssy that the general reduction in certain commercial articles had been 25 per cent. He must say that he had not profited by the reduction, though doubt less others had. If, however, such reductions had taken place in consequence of the reduction of duties, they ought to recollect that the income tax had been imposed to ensure against deficiency of revenue, and that it was paid among others by that very class whose salaries wero now proposed to be reduced. Mr. BUCK thought the time had arrived for the House entertaining some such proposition as that of the Hon. Member fur Oxford. He believed that discontent and depression never existed to a greater extent that at this moment.' He should certainly vote for the proposal of the Hon. Member for Oxford. Mr. BROTHERION said that if a general reduction were proposed he should vote for it, but he did not think it would be just on the present occasion to vote fur a partial and invidious reduction such as that proposed. Mr. SPOONER recalled to the recollection of the Right lion. Gentleman near him (Mr. Goulburn) that the income-tax was not imposed for the first time in 1846. The question was not whether Ministers were over paid, bat whether, having by Legislation reduced every man's income and every man's profit, that class who had made the reductions were alone to escape? He should support the proposition. His only fault with it was that it did not go far enough. Mr. COBDEN thought the proposal involved a prin &plc which might have important consevences. His reasons for supporting the proposition were not the same as those of Hon. Gentlemen opp isite. They had rested the proposal on the reductions in the price of commodi ties, which they had attributed to our recent commercial legislation. 11 begged to remind them that if legisla tion had aff•cted the price of corn, it had not affected the price of manufactures. In fact, cotton and woollen manufactures were cheaper before their legislation with respect to earn and other articles, than after it. Tho recent commercial legislation bad been of great advantage to the community he repre sented, whose condition now was comparatively better than it was previous to such legislation. It would be much easier now to raise from them the taxation neces sary to pay these and other salaries, than it would have been if the corn laws had not been repealed. He did not wish to be thought to give a vindictive vote against the Government. The tone of Hon. Gentlemen opposite indicated revenge.—(Llear.) The vote which he in tended to give he should have given five years ago. He thought the higher functionaries in the civil department were paid more than they ought to be. He did not say they should be paid low salaries, or that, because bread was cheaper, salaries should be low. But, when he found a First Secretary of State receiving 5,0001. a year, he thought there was room for reduction without trenching upon the dignity and hospitality of the office. More than double the salary paid to public officers in other countries was paid for similar services in this. One advantage he contemplated from a reduction of salaries was the greater simplicity which it would produce in the habits of life. If the salaries of 5,0001. were cut down to 4,0004 that sum would be ample. There was no very great additional expense en tailed on a man from filling the office of a Secretary of State. On the contrary, his whole time was then de voted to work; and he had no idle time to fill up expen sively. He therefore thought 4,0001. ample for a First Secretary of State, and had no objection at once to re duce the salary to that sum. But the Hon. Member for Oxford had proposed a mode of reduction which he could not altogether approve of—he proposed to take off 10 per cent. from all salaries. Now, in the Treasury there were a great number of clerks at salaries of 1501., 146., and 1071., as also messengers at 701. Now, he was by no means disposed to deal with these small salaries in the same way as he would with the large salaries of 5,0001. Indeed, if this motion were adopted, he should propose that the saving be distributed in a totally diffe rent way from that suggested by the Hon. Gentleman — and that it should go to increase salaries that were in sufficient. Whatever was the motive of the Hon. Gen tleman in bringing forward the proposal, he bad done well in boldly attacking the Treasury bench. In all probability, if the First Lord had not 5 , 0001. he would not get up and say that a Bishop should have 10,0001. He should certainly support the motion of the Hon. Member for Oxford, Mr. SIMEON said it was not desirabl e that a ques-1 iion involving so important a consideration as gener ht economy in the public expenditure should be bro b ug forward in the spirit in which that amendment had een introduced, and therefore he should vote against it. Strangers were ordered to withdraw, and the Com mittee having divided, the numbers were — For the vote ... ••• 84 Fur the amendment ••• _ 33 51 Majority The vote of 25,4001. for th .. e . expenses of orticethe Secretary of State for the Home Dcpartment was then agreed to. for A sum, not exceeding 7,600/, was then proposed . of the offices of the. Foreign Department. Mr. COBDEN wish• d to know whether the Hon. Mem ber for Oxfordshire (Mr. Henley) intended to persevere in his rgsolution with respect to that dep artment, or would give notice of some motion on the bringing up of the report? Mr. HENLEY said he thought the best way of ac complishing a general reduction of public expenditure was to lay down the principle for which he had con tended. After the decision to which the Committee had come he would not again divide, but he would not be pre cluded Irons taking whatever steps he thought advisable on a future occasion to enforce that general principle which he sought to establish. After a few words from Mr. MITCHELL, The vote was agreed to, as were also the following:— A sum of 36,900 1 . for the expenses of the Colonial office. 43,0001. for the expenses of Privy Council-office and Board of Trade. 2,0001. for the expenses of the office of Privy Seal. 28,9001. for the office of the Paymaster General. 6,626/. ditto Paymaster of Exchequer-bills. 2,700/. for the expenses of the State Paper-office. 3,540/. expenses of the Ecclesiastical Commission of England. A vote of 240,000/. to defray the expenses of the ad ministration of the poor-law having been proposed, Mr. HENLEY wished to know how the increase oc curred in the expenses of that commission from former years ? Mr. BAINES said the expenses of the united Com missions of England and Scotland had been added to that of England. The only increase in England had been caused by the appointment of two additional in spectors to the eleven already made, and had only made an addition of 853/. to that item of expenditure. Captain PECHELL said he had always been opposed to that grant, but considerable improvement had taken place in the system since the investigation into the aff.sirs of the Andover union. He had intended to bring for ward a motion for an inquiry into an important subject connected with the administration of the law; but, as he understood the Hon. and Learned Oommitsioner was himself about inquiring into it, he would not proceed with his notice. After a few words from Sir H. VERNEY, Mr. FRENCH condemned the great increase which had taken place in the administration of the poor-law in Ireland, a law which had been forced on the country, and was considered unsuited to her condition. It might be said that Ireland had no right to complain, for that money came from the Consolidated Fund. Now, he maintained, that Ireland contributed more than her fair share to that fund. The expenses of introducing the law into Ireland had been more than in England. Ho found an architect appointed at a salary of 8001. a year, while his assistants had 3001. a year, and their travelling expenses amounted to over 5,000/ ; now, although that officer had been sent over to Ireland at the commence ment, and had not been very successful in his labours, he was still retained. In conclusion, he moved that the item in the votes should be reduced from 35,000/. to 30,000/. (as was understood). Mr. HENLEY said the travelling expenses of the inspectors appeared to amount to about 2/. a day—in fact to more than their salaries. The salaries of the Irish inspectors were 7,0004, and their travelling ex penses were 6,0001.; and then there was a❑ additional sum of 6,6001. a year for extra clerks and architects' as sistants. It appeared to him that those charges required some explanation. Mr. BAINES said that the English inspectors were obliged to travel at a moment's notice to any part of their respective districts in which it might be neces sary that they should institute inquires. In fact they were compelled to be constantly on tne move, and he did not think that a sum of 10,7401. a year was too much to meet the expenses which the thirteen inspectors had to incur. _ _ Colonel DUNNE said he felt it his duty to direct the attention of the Committee,to the fact that in Ireland the poor-law auditors, the schoolmasters and school mistresses, and the medical officers were paid by the 'unions, while in England a considerable portion of those expenses were paid out of the Consolidated Fund. In the statements of his Hon. Friend, the Member for Roscommon (Mr. F. French) with respect to the poor law architect in Ireland, he entirely agreed. He bs lieved that officer had been particularly mischievous, and that he had put the country to a good deal of un necessary expense. Sir W. SOMERVILLE said he believed his Hon. and Gallant Friend was mistaken in supposing that the auditors in Ireland were not paid out of the Consolidated Fund. It was, true, however, that the whole of the ex penses of the schoolmasters and the schoolmistresses in England and half the expenses of the medical officers were borne by the Consolidated Fund. But in exchange for that indulgence extended to the people of this country, it had been arranged that the expenses of the constabu. lary in Ireland should be defrayed by the public excite. quer. The expenses attending the operation of the Irish poor-law had certainly of late been very considerable; but that fact might, he thought, be attributed to the un fortunate condition of the country; and hR hoped that a large portion a the expense would not be required after the present year. With respect to the Irish poor-law architect, he should observe that he entirely differed from his Hon. Friends as to the merits of that gentleman, whom be believed to be a very able and efficient officer. Mr. SIDNEY said he could not help thinking that the travelling expenses of the inspectors were unaccount ably large. Those expenses amounted to about 2/. 10s. per day for each inspector, Sundays excepted. Mr. BAINES had only to repeat that the inspectors had constant journeys to undertake. Mr. SIDNEY wished to know what was the sum al. lowed them daily for travelling? Mr. BAINES—Their actual expenses. Mr. WYLD said he could not help observing, even in these days of economy, that there was one item connected with the working of the poor-law which was much lower than it ought to be. lie alluded to the allowances to medical officers, which amounted to only 150,000/. a year. In his opinion that sum was altogether insuffi cient; and he hoped that some more liberal provision would be made for the payment of officers who were en trusted with the discharge of such very laborious duties. Mr. SLANEY wished to know what was the number of unions in which the'system of industrial schools had been ad )pted? Mr. J. O'CONNELL said he hoped his Hon. Friend the Member for Roscommon would not press his amend ment, because any excess beyond the amount that might be voted would be defrayed out of the different unions, instead of being chargeable to the Consolidated Fund. In reply to the statement of the Right lion. Baronet the Secretary for Ireland, he wished to observe that the people of Ireland had alma ly paid more than 3,000,000/. for the establishment of the Irish constabulary force ; and as that was an armed force, which saved this country the expense of extending the military establishment in Ireland, he thought it would be unnfair to place the pay ment of ;such a force out of the Consolidated Fund as a set-off against the payment of medicsl officers and schoolmasters and schoolmistresses in England out of the public exchequer. He should theretore propose that the charges of those officers should be defrayed in Ireland, as in England, out of the Consolidated Fund. Mr. BAINES wished to observe, in reply to the ques tion of his Hon. Friend the Member for Shrewsbury (Mr. Sianey) that he was not then enabled to state the number of unions in which industrial schools had been established; but he should be prepared on a future day to furnish the desired information. Sir W. SOMERVILLE wished to remind his Hon. Friend the Member for Limerick (Mr. J. O'Connell) that the yearly charges for half the expense of medical offi cers,and for the whole of the expense of schoolmasters and schoolmistresses in England and Scotland amounted to only 120,0001. a year-85,0001. for England and 35,000/. fur Scotland—while the expense of the Irish constabu lary, which was defrayed out of the Consolidated Fund, amounted to not less than 500,0001. a year. Mr. J. O'CONNELL repeated that the people of Ire land had already paid 3,000,0001. for the establishment of the constabulary. After a few words from Mr. F. FRENCH, Strangers were ordered to withdraw, but no division took place; and the vote was agreed to. A sum of 45,6841. having been proposed for defraying the expenses of the Mint, Mr. I'HORNELY asked when it was probable that the two-shilling pieces would he issued? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that all the necessary steps had been taken tor issuing these pieces, when he had found that it would be neces sary to pass a Bill for legalising any coin different from that which had existed under the former Aot. He bad given notice of a Bill for that evening to legalise the issuing of the pieces in question. Captain PECLIELL expressed ahope that the arrange ment with respect to the distribution of medals would be reconsidered. Sir F. BARING said that the claims for medals by officers who had been engaged in certain actions were still under consideration; but the whole question would not again be reopened. Mr. SPOONER wished to know whether it was the intention of the Government to act on the report of the commission in reference to this department? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, it was impossible to come to an immediate decision on the subject. The vote was then agreed to. On the vote of 7,9961. for the railway department (per Act 9 and 10 Viet., c. 105), Mr. HENLEY observed an unusual item under this head, namely, a charge for newspapers. This, he pre sumed, arose from the officers connected with the depart ment having nothing to do.—(Rear, and a laugh.) Mr. LABOUCHERE said, the Hon. Member would recollect that the Government had undertaken to make all the reductions possible in this branch of the public service, and in redemption of that pledge he might refer to the fact that while the original charge in 1847 was 17,0001., and in 1848 10,6701., it this year did not exceed 7, 996/. With regard to the question put by the Hon. Gentleman, he might say that it was thought advisable that the board should be supplied with railway news papers in order that they might be acquainted with what was going on in reference to railways. The votes of 12,8221. for expenses of salaries, &c., public records; 11,8691. for the salaries, &e., of inspectors, &c.; 1,755/. for offices in Scotland; 6,464/. fur the household of the Lord• Lieutenant in Ireland; 24,235 L for the Chief and Under-Secretary's Office and Privy Council Office, Ireland; 5,596/. for the Paymaster of Civil Services, Ireland ; 39,5621. for the Commissioners of Public Works, Ire land; 39,0001. for secret service, were then agreed to. On the vote of 277,762/. for printing and stationery, Mr. COBDEN suggeAcd that the blue books should be printed in an octavo form, instead of their present unwieldy shape. By this means they would be rendered much more accessible, more portable, and, in addition to this, he understood that a saving would be effected of from 20 to 30 per cent. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said doc tors differed upon this as upon other subjects, but it was more Froperly a subject for the consideration of the printing Committee. The following votes were then agreed to:- 26,0001. fur law charges paid by the solicitor to the Treasury. 0.0001. Mint prosecutions relating to coin. 17,700/ sheriffs' expenses, officers of the Court of Ex chequer, &c. 10, 3701. Insolvent Debtors' Court. THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, JUNE 2, 1840. 73,7301. criminal prosecutions and other law charges (Scotland). 63 991/ criminal prosecutions and other law charges (Irelamd). 35,500/. for the expenses of the metropolitan police (Dublin). 258,0001. for prosecutions at assix , s and quarter ses sions, formerly paid out of the county rates. On the gross vote of 702,5231. for the expenses of law and justice, Mr. HENLEY observed that the expenses relating to convicts were put in a different form from that in which they had been accustomed to see them. This might be more convenient, but it at thesame time rendered it diffi cult to compare the present with the previous years. The aggregate expense appeared to him to have in creased. Sir G. GREY—Not as compared with last year. Mr. HENLEY said be observed, in page 16 of the estimates a sum of 17,000/. to defray the expense of con l i - fining and maintaining in probationary discipline 674 male convicts in county ga"ls in Great Britain under sentence of transportation. until otherwise disposed of, and he wished to know whether the expense per head was greater or less than the expense at Pentonville, Milbank, or Portland ? Sir G. GREY said the charge to which the Hon, Mem ber had adverted was the result of a recommendation of the Committee on the Miscellaneous Estimates, who stated it to be impossible to form an opinion of the ag grepte expenses with reference to convicts under the old system. An experienced officer had been placed in com munication with several of these establishments. The aggregate expense, no doubt, appeared to have increased, but then the Hon. Gentleman would observe that a sum of no less than 53,0001. had been transferred from the navy estimates. Those and some other charge had, on the recommendation of the Committee, been included in the miscellaneous estimates. With regard to the sum of 17.000/. ler the maintenance of 674 male convicts in pro bationary discipline, to which the Hon. Member bad ad verted, it must be remembered that this stage of punish ment was attended with very considerable expense. A revision of the expense connected with the various esta blishments to which the Hon. Member had referred was in progress, the result of which he hoped would be to secure greater equality. Mr. HENLEY said, one other item, which appeared to him extravagant, was the ch arge f or t h e ma i ntenance of criminal lunatics. He found that the expense of maintaining 111 patients in Bethlem Hospital was set down at 3,8401., and he really could see no reason why the charge in that establishment should be so much beyond Ilanwell, or any other wall-conducted public asylum. Sir G. GREY said ho had had some communication with the Governor of Bethlem Hospital, ands reduction had taken place there this year. It must, however, be obvious that the expense must be greater in an establish ment for criminal lunatics, where patients were confided who had committed murder and other grave crimes, than it would be in ordinary lunatic asylums. On the vote of 125,0001. for public education in Greet Britain, Mr. HENLEY regretted the absence of the Honour able Member who had raised a discussion upon that question in the previous year, and hoped that his now not opposing the vote would not be understood as pre cluding him from taking any course he thought proper on a future occasion if the question should be brought in another form before the House. There was a very considerable amount of feeling, and among a class whose opinions were worthy of the attention of that House and the country, with regard to that vote, and the impres sion was that it was not fairly administered by the Go vernment.—(Hear, hear.) He would ,not go at length into the question then, as he had not expected that the vote would have come on that night; but be merely wished to reserve to himself, when the matter was more fully gone into, the right to take such a course as he might think fit, because, so far as he had been able to judge, a considerable portion of the community had great reason to complain of the mode and manner in which the grant was administered. - The vote was then agreed to. On the vote of 120,0001. for the commissioners of ria• tional educatioon in Ireland, Mr. GROGAN wished to call the attention of the Committee to the fact that, although:these commissioners received a very large sum of money per unnum for the management of the education of a section of the people of Ireland, they appeared to be very strangely employed. He found a notice issued by them very lately stating ;that they had prepared two volumes of poems for the use of th e c hildren in these national schools, the poets from Chauc er d own t o the most recent period, one containing biographies of all the and the other containing selections from their poems. And these were for the education of the poor children in Ireland, who were most of them in a starving con dition. He thought they might be much more usefully employed in making arrangements for the endowment of schoolmistresses who could instruct the children, par ticularly the females, in useful work, such as em• broidery, which had been done with the happiest affect in the north of Ireland, as that species of work found a very ready sale. The vote was then agreed to as were also the fol lowing:- 10,0001. for the School of Design. 2,0061. for the sahriei and allowances of certain pro fessors of the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge. 4,0001. for the University of London. 7,480/. for the Scottish University. 3001. for the Royal Irish Academy. 300/. for the Royal Hibernian Academy. 6,0001. for the Royal Dublin Society. 3,1001. for the Royal &NA Academical Institution. 36,2881. for the new buildings of the British Museum. 1,500/. to the trustees of the British Museum for anti quitieF.. a 1,5001. for the National Gallery. Fir W. JOLLIFFE wished to know whether it was intended to make any addition to the building in order to provide room for the valuable pictures that had lately been presented to the country ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER feared he would hardly be justified in proposing any additional sum for that purpose in the present circumstances of the country. He quite agreed with the lion. Baronet as to the desirableness of providing proper accornmoda eolaoggriecea survey. dl to; as were also,— s, tion, but, under the p res ent circumstances, the Govern ment did not feel itself justified in proposing any addi tional expense. The o 071. vote fo was ' 5,0001. for scientific works and exper i ments, and mag netic observatories at home and abroad. 2,8001. for complet in g the pedestal of the column in Trafalgar-square to t he memory of Lord Nelson. 4,0491. for the civi l e stablishment of Bermuda. 2,0001. for the civi l establishment of Prince Edward's atshe then geological Island. On the vote of 11,5781. for the ecclesiastical establish. ments of British North America, Mr. J. B. SMITH had a strong objection to the vote. He thought those colonies ought to be able to support their own Church, and he should be glad to know whether the Government was making any arrangement for the purpose. He would not go into the question of the injustice of the vote, but leave that to the Canadians themselves; but he certainly objected to a vote of that kind for a religious sect comprising not one fifth of the population of Canada. Mr. HAWES observed that those votes terminated with the lives of the present incumbents. It was a special contract made by a previous Secretary of State, and as the lives died off the vote would be reduced in amount. -------- The vote was then agreed to, as were 14,1021. for the Indian department in Canada. 2901. for the civil establishment of the Bahamas. 18,028/. for the governors of the West Indian colonies. 41,150/. for stipendiary justices of the West Indian colonies and the Mauritius. 13 6801. for the civil establishments on the west coast of Africa. 16,940/. fcr the island of St. Helena. 7,379/. for the settlement of West Australia. 0 1, 0 76 t 3 h / e . f v o o r te the of s 2 c o , t , t o le o m oi e . n fo t r o t f h l e 'o o r o t Essington. lonyofxe Now Zealand, Mr. J. B. SMITH saw in the vote a sum of 600 /. for the Bishop of New Zealand. He - should like to know whether the vote stood upon the same footing as that of the Canadian vote, and that it would expire with the bishop? Mr. HAWES could not say that it stood upon the same footing. At the same time be would observe that the revenues of New Zealand were increasing so rapidly that in a short time he hoped they would be enabled to write to him as they had recently written to the Go vernor of Prince Edward's Island—that the colony should take upon itself the civil charges of the colony. Sir W. JOLLIFFE observed that the establishment of the chief secretary was put down at 1 2001., and the salary of the chief justice at 1,0004, while that of the bishop was only 600 L Mr. HAWES said the 6001. was not the whole of the bishop's salary; the salary of the secretary was only 6001. or 8001. per annum, the rest being the expenses of his establishment. Alter a few words from Mr. CARDWELL, the vote was agreed to. M 1,0231 . ofoßiDihEeNcivil establishment at Heligoland. bitants in 5,7001. for th e F a lk lan d I s l an ds. of governi ng t h em, therefore, amo unted to 351. per head, which would f ee d and lodge t h em in that country. No these isla o n b d s s er d v i e d d not that exc t e h e e d n l6 u o m , b a e n r d o t f he in c h o a s - t one could believe that these islands were of any value to them. They had no trade, and no shipping whatever, and he hoped the Government would be able to assure them that the country would shortly be relieved from that expense. Mr. HAWES could not say that the vote would be struck out of the estimates, a lthough he hoped it would be reduc e d. Th e Falkland Islands were not of any com mercial importance, but they were of great political im portance, in enabling vessels coming round Cape Horn to put in and refit. Mr. COBDEN said that the complaint was that ships did not touch at those islands. He did not know what were the political considerations that induced them to expend all this money. The governor, it appeared, was paid 8001. a year, the magistrate 400/., the clergyman 4001., the surgeon, 4001. The superintendent of cattle was also paid a handsome salary, although no ships would stop there to buy the meat. The votes were then agreed to. On the vote of 25,000/. for the British settlement of Hong-Kong, Mr. J. B. SMITH said that he found included in this vote 7501. for the ecclesiastical establishment, which he protested against. Mr. HAWES said, as they had thought it expedient to take possession of Hong-Kong, and had sent a Euro pean population to that colony, he did not think it un reasonable to make some provision for their religious education. This estimate was considerably less than that of the previous y ear, and he believed they would be able t o make a considerable further reduction in future years, Mr. V. SMITH reminded his Hon. Friend that the Committee which had sat in 1847 had stated that the establishment kept up in this colony was one of endless expense. He complained of the great discrerancies that existed in the salaries paid to the governor, the secretary, and other officers in Hong-Kong, with those paid to the same officers in Now Zealand and other colo nies, the amount paid to the former being about double that paid to many others. Mr. HAW ES said that there had been a gradual re duction effected in some of these salaries for several years past. The Governor of Hong-Kong was no doubt paid a salary of 6,0001. a year, but it should be recol lected that his duties were not simply confined to the island of Hong• Kong—he was also superintendent of the trade, which was most important in that part of the world, and had an extensive jurisdiction over the whole general establishment in China. He was also plenipo tentiary, representing the Crown there. It was a most expensive Government, and the climate was by no means favourable to health. On the contrary, New Zealand was singularly salubrious. Sir W. JOLLIFFE thought that the Government might have selected a much more healthy situation for the settlement. He eh';uli like to hear some explana tion given in respect to the surveyor-general's duties. He thought the ecclesiastical establishment highly necessary there,_as prevention was better than cure. Mr. MITCHELL suggested that the salariea of the different officers referred to at Hong Kong ought to be reduced one-hail. lie was certain the Government would find no difficulty in procuring competent persons to discharge the duties required from the respective officers there, even if such reductions were effected. Mr. M. GIBSON was surprised to find the traders so slow in admitting the advantage of the trade of Hong- Kong, if it were really so important as the lion. Gentle man seemed to think. Now he had heard persons inter ested in the trade of that colony say that the possession of Hong-Kong was no benefit whatever to the trade of China. Suppose that the United States of America had obtained possession of the Isle of Wight or the Isle of Man, would the United States, he asked, have a larger trade in England? It was most absurd to assume that they would. He believed that the occupation of such places as Hong• Kong rather militated against their trade than promoted it, and he was of opinion that they only benefited these who gave away places, and those who were appointed to them. The vote was then agreed to. LABUAN. On the vote 9,827/. for the governor and establishment of Labuan being proposed, Mr. COBDEN said that here they took possession of a barren rock, assuming that they would have a large trade there, and that they forthwith make a large estab lishment. He did not think that they could ever have a trade there of the slightest importance. The governor and commander-in-chief, it appeared, was paid 2,000/.; the lieutenant-governor and magistrate, 1,3751.; the mas ter attendant and post-master, 500/.; the surveyor, 5001.; the station-surgeon, 4461. 13s. 4d. ; the governor's office, 487/.los. ; the lieutenant-governor's office, 1751., and so on, making, in the whole, 9,8271. a year. Now this vote was the same as last year. What, he asked, was La buan good for ? It was said it was a place for a large trade. He should like to hear from the Hon. Gentle man the Under-Secretary for the Colonies what the prospects were which induced them to encourage such expectations. What he complained of was this—that before they had obtained that trade they formed a large establishment, sufficient to govern a large community. The settlement of Labuan, too, was rather curious. It was through a piece of sentimentalism that they were in debted for the possession of this place. There was an adventurous gentleman who sailed in his yacht towards this part of the world. This gentleman takes possession of Sarawak, a district of a country upon the coast of Borneo, and he gets the cession of this district. He is, therefore, called Raja, the former Raja being a pirate. This gentleman then comes to England, and by a system of enormous and sentimental puffing he persuades the Government that be is going to civilize Borneo. What does he do? lie first appoints himself consular agent—agent to himself. He is Raja Brooke at Sarawax, and consular agent to himself at Borneo. We take the island of Labuan, about 300 miles from Sarawak, and appoint this gentleman governor of La buan, although it is probably more difficult to communi‘ cate between these places than between Labuan and England, because there are no means of communication established there. It was quite clear that this gentle man could not be in both places at the same time, and to get over this difficulty he appoints a lieutenant-governor to do his duty during his absence from au island which was without a population! Now, he asked, could any country play such tricks with their ways and means as this country bas done? He should be glad to hear from :he Hon. Under-Secretary whether it was the intention of the Government to continue this establishment, and to pay the salaries that were now to be voted? Mr. HAWES thought that his Hon. Friend had ra ther undervalued this settlement. He would remind the lion. Member that from no quarter of the world did stronger representations come for the settlement of La• buan, than from Manchester, Liverpool, London, and Glasgow. Memorials had, in fact, been presented to the Government from the whole commercial community, urging a settlement of Labuan. It was not, therefore, from a mere feeling of sentimentalism that the Govern ment were induced to form an establishment at Labuan. ' Sir James Brooke was then singularly well qualified to undertake the duties of Governor, from the influence which he had obtained over the surrounding savage ter ritories, and over the Sultan of Borneo, a place which did not belong to us, and of which we have no right to the smallest possession. His Hon. Friend seemed to forget that the coal found in Labuan was most valuable and advantageous to our whole steam navigation in those parts. When they sent such a man to so miserable a spot they were bound to make him some good compen ,ation for the duties they imposed upon him. If they thought the salary too large they could discuss the mat t, r. So far as he hail seen he had found that when they had, through a mistaken economy, reduced the salary of a governor under such circumstances, it was increased in another way by means of allowances that were not accounted for, as had formerly been the case in Ceylon, for instance. Papers relatine , to this settlement had been laid before the House last year, when there was a vote of 2,5001. taken for public buildings. This place being half way between Singapore and Hong-Kong, would be the greatest possible benefit to our steam navy lei mercantile interest. He defended the vote for La buan, upon the same principle as he defended that for Hong-Kong, the former being peculiarly valuable to us, by reason of its coal mines. Mr. V. SMITH did not think that the Hon. Under. Secretary had given a very good answer to the state ment of the Hon. Member for the West Riding of York shire, when he said that a petition had been presented from Manchester in favour of the settlement of Labuan. He was of opinion that the statement made by his Hon. Friend was in most respects perfectly correct. It ap peared that there was a clever and entertaining book written by Sir J. Brooke upon the subject of this colony which caused much excitement amongst the people, and a desire to know something more about this country. Consequently the Colonial Office made an establishment at Labuan. He, however, thought that the Government had a duty of resistance as well as a duty of compliance. His lion. Friend the Under-Secretary had only men tioned the fact of coal being found at this place in show ing the great advantage Labuan was to this country. He (Mr. V. Smith) did not think that this fact was suffi cient to justify the large establishment which they kept up there. Ile was afraid that in a short time they would be compelled to do something in respect to Borneo in the extension of our arms over that qurter. The Hon. Gentleman seemed to forget that there were troops at Labuan. He wishel to know whether there was a probability of any increased expenditure in consequence of our taking possession of Labuan? Sir H. VERNEY protested against any premature opinion being expressed with respect to the value of Labuan as a colony. Similar opinions to those which had been stated to-night were made use of in 1823 and 1824 with t espect to the foundation of Singapore, which opinions ultimately turned out to be unjustifiable. Mr. F. SCOTT hoped that the Committee would not come to a hasty conclusion upon a matter which, ho be lieved, was likely to turn out one of immediate import ance to our East Indian possessions. He hoped that the Under-Secretary for the Colonies was in a position to give the Committee some estimate of the value of the coal which was to be found at Labuan, and what other sources of wealth the colony possessed? Mr. HAWES said that he did not wish to approach the subject of coal mining at Labuan with any degree of delicacy. He had reason to know that an agent had been sent out by the Peninsular and Oriental Steam Naviga tion Company to Labuan, and that he had transmitted information to this country, to the effect that the ships of the company could be supplied at the island with coals, at from one-fourth to one-half less cost than at present. Ultimately, therefore, the public must be benefited in the shape of entering into contracts for the conveyance of mails, as well as in other matters, by this settlement. Mr. COBDEN complained that a Government had been established at Labuan, before a colony or settle ment was founded. He did not believe that there were ten white people in the colony. He could not help observ ing that Gentlemen might have a motive for going through the north of England, and exciting the manufacturing classes there—(lronical cheering from the Protection. ists)—for a particular purpose interesting to themselves —(Renewed cheering of the same character and from the same quarter)—exciting them into a mood for petitioning the Legislature under certain promises of benefiting themselves by it—(Repeated cheering from the kilt of the chair)—of benefiting by a new sort of trade with Japan or some unknown country. Gentlemen had gone through the north and raised great expectations with respect to trading with Labuan. He believed that the memorials from the Liverpool Chamber of Commerce and other places to the Government in favour of occupy ing Labuan were very cautiously worded, and not so much in favour of the system of government of the de tached island as was stated. It should be recollected that Sir J. Brooke was Consul at Sarawak and Governor of Labuan, which was 300 miles distant from his place of residence.—(Hear, hear.) Lord PALMERSTON said that Sir J. Brooke was not consul to himself, as the Hon. Gentleman had asserted. He was accredited to the Sultan at Borneo by the Government of this country. Sir W. JOLLIFFE expressed his admiration of Sir James Brooke's conduct, and the confidence he had in his management of the colony, for the welfare of Briti,h interests. His appointments as Raja of Sarawak and Governor of Labuan were in his (Sir W. Jolliffe's) opinion well deserved.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. LABOUCIIERE defended the Chamber of Com merce of Manchester, with respect to the memorial pre sented by them to the First Minister of the Crown in 1846, in favour of colonising Labuan. The Right Hoe. Gentleman read the memorial in extenso, and: said that nothing could be less vague than the opinion expressed in it. The language was that of men who had no doubt looked well and carefully into the whole subject— (Hear)—and they prayed that measures for colonising the island in question might be carried into effect with the utmost possible dispatch. Considering that the Hon. Member for the West Riding of Yorkshire (Mr. Cob den) was so intimately connected with the commercial and trading interests of Lancashire, he (Mr. Labouchere) was surprised that he hail thrown a doubt upon the sincerity of the motives of such an eminent and re spectable body as the Manchester Chamber of Com merce.—(Hear, hear.) The mercantile community of this country had generally agreed in recommending that Labuan should be taken possession of as a colony by Great Britain; and, as a Member of the Government, he concurred in the recommendation. Mr. COBDEN, notwithstanding what had been said by the members of the Government, still retained the opinion that the Government establishment at Labaun was extravagant and profligate; and he, therefore, could not sanction the vote under consideration. He com plained that he had had no answers to the questions put by him to the Under Secretary for the Colonies. Mr. HENLEY expressed his dissatisfaction at the ex planations given by Mr. Hawes with respect to the value of Labuan, and wished for more detailed and decisive in formation on the subject. Perhaps the Hon. Member for Glasgow (Mr. Macgregor), who was so well versed in statistical details, and had such a thorough knowledge of the question before them, would favour the Committee with his opinion. Colonel THOMPSON could not help saying he thought that mercantile men had great facilities for getting up experiments when other people had to pay for them.—(lronical cheering from the Opposition side of the House.) He did not, however, believe that the general opinion of the people was in favour of adopting Labuan as a colony. He trusted that the Committee would express their opinion upon the question before them by dividing. After a few words from Mr. NEWDEGATE in favour of the vote, and laudatory of Sir J. Brookes, Mr. SCOTT thought the House was greatly indebted to the Hon. Member for the West Riding for bringing the matter under their notice, and also for the manner —the manly manner—in which he had stated how pe titions and memorials were got up in the north of Eng land. Mr. WYLD said, as all that fell from a gentleman holding the distinguished position filled by the Honour able Member for Kinsale would be looked upon as autho rity, and as he bad stated that we had not the shadow of a claim upon any portion of the island of Borneo, he was anxious to take that opportunity of stating that there could be no doubt whatever that this country had a good claim to several portions of that island, although in abeyance now in consequence of the treaties into which we had entered. In answer to Mr. NEWDEGATE, Lord PAL YIERSTON said it was well known that the seas around Borneo swarmed with pirates—(Hear, hear)—aad that they did not sail, as in the Mediter ranean, in ones or twos, but in whole fleets. Accounts had recently been received that a small fleet had been seen, and had committed several depredations on the coasts and rivers of Borneo.—(Hear, hear.) It was the duty of Sir James Brooke, in conjunction with the Commander on the station, to take measures for the security of the British commerce there. Cruisers had already been sent to those seas by the Spanish Governor of the Philippine Islands, and with a view of protecting our own commerce and that of our customers, it was of the utmost importance that such wholesale piracy should be put a stop to, and one of the ends contemplated by the establishment of Labuan was, to put down the abo minable system there carried on. Mr. COBDEN—That was just ono of the evils of taking possession of the island at all. The Hon. Mem ber for Warwickshire already wanted more ships of war to be sent out to Sir James Brooke, on the pretence of putting down that piracy which was said to exist. Now he repeated that those so-called pirates never did, and never would, attack a'square-rigged vessel. The people there were in the same position as the ancient Scandi navians; they were nearly in a state of barbarism, and they were all pirates amongst each other. Was it our business to send out ships of war to compel the people to lead civilized lives ? Mr. MANGLES said the Hon. Member for the West Riding had gone beyond the mark in his last statement. He (Mr. M) remembered being in the Straits of Malacca in a 700 ton ship when the demonstration of the pirates rendered them very much afraid of an attack. Mr. COBDEN—How many years ago ? I spoke of the present time. Mr. MANGLES—It was in 1834 or 1835. The whole of the commerce of Singapore was carried on in small vessels, and unless they were protected, even to the very mouth of the harbour, the trade would be wholly stopped. After a further conversation, the vote was agreed to. 13,6541. was then proposed to be granted for defraying the expenses of the Emigration Board. In answer to a question from Mr. V. SMITH, Mr. HAWES said he hoped the report of the Board would be laid on the table in the course of next week. As the work of that Board has so much increased of late, he had no hope that it could be reduced in number during the present year. Mr. SCOTT did not think the board too large for emigration which took place yearly, but he trusted they would do all in their power to turn the stream of emi gration more towards the British possessions. Mr. HAWES said, while the passage to Australia cost so much more than that to America, the great stream of emigration would flow to the latter country. In answer to a question from Mr. GROGAN, Mr. HAWES said, free passages were paid for out of the colonial funds, and as they increased or decreased, so would such passages be granted. The facilities for emigration would certainly be increased. Mr. SCOTT must protest against the colonies being so heavily taxed in order to relieve the mother country from their pauperism, neither did he think that England ought to be called upon to bear the burden of relieving Ireland from her paupers. Mr. HINDLEY hoped the Government would give some assurance that they were prepared to take up the subject of emigration in a large and comprehensive manner. There was not a question of greater import ance to England. The Government ought to come for ward and assist the emigration clubs. Let those clubs pay one-fourth, the parish or the union one-fourth, the colony one•fourth, and the Government the other fourth; then the colonies would be benefited by the labour which they wanted for the purpose of bringing their land into cultivation, while the mother country would be relieved. Let them not be afraid of spending a million or two.— (Oh, oh.) Had they spent the eight millions they had thrown away in Ireland— (Hear, hear)—on emigration, they would have benefited the colonies and done Ireland some good. The vote was agreed to. 30,0001. was proposed for maintaining captured negroes and liberated Africans at Sierra Leone. Sir W. JOLLIFFE said, they had now arrived at a class of votes which brought the whole C 230 of the slave trade under the notice of the House. The system now pursued only added to the misery and cruelty of the abominable traffic, and had entirely failed in the object with which it was instituted. He believed that it cost the country one million sterling per annum, besides the wear and tear of ships, the expense of which could not be arrived at. By disagreeing to the vote, they would show their determination to put anend to a system which only aggravated the evils it was intended to cure. If the money were spent on emigration, the country would be much better satisfied. Mr. M. GIBSON asked if the mixed Commission Courts were not placed in a peculiar position at the present moment ? He thought they could have nothing to do at present, as the slave trade was carried on under the Brazilian flag. The Brazilian ships could not be condemned by these courts; and he wished to know whether an arrangement could not be made for lessening the expense ? It was now, he believed, at least 25,0001. a year. Lord PALMERSTON said it was quite true the greater part of the slave trade was carried on under the Brazilian flag, still there was some portion of the trade carried on under the Spanish flag,and some under no flag ; and if these courts ceased to exist, some ships could not be condemned. His lion. Friend would perceive that he had acted on the sugges tion thrown out last year; and that he had left vacant several of the appointments, so as to reduce the expense by 6,0001. a year. He was also in communication with the Court of Portugal to reduce the expenditure, and would omit no opportunity that might offer for re ducing it. Mr. M. GIBSON suggested that there should be a return made of the ships seized. He wished to know when a return would be forthcoming? Lord PALMERSTON said returns were made from time to time of the ships seized. The vote was then agreed to. The next vote, 16,850/. for salaries and expenses of the mixed Commission Courts, was agreed to. 98,690/., to complete the sum necessary for the consu lar establishments abroad, were next proposed. Mr. HENLEY observed they had not yet got rid of Hong-Kong. The salary for superintendent he per ceived was included in that of governor. They had a consul, too, though it was not usual to keep a consul in one of their own colonies. There was then a secretary, and a second assistant keeper of records. There was a cost of 25,000/., and salaries amounting to 4,6001. for the consular service. Lord PALMERSTON replied that the same person who acted as governor was superintendent to the consu. lar establishment in China, and had tocommunicate with consuls in five different ports. Mr. SCOTT objected to the payment of an interpreter at Canton, when they had so great a linguist there as Dr. Bowring. Mr. MITCHELL objected to the payment of two se cretaries. Lord PALMERSTON replied that one secretary was engaged in consular business, and another secretary was employed in other duties. Mr. HINDLEY wished to know by what rule the sa laries of consuls was fixed, as they differed so mush from each other? Lord PALMERSTON replied that the amount of a ilary depended upon a variety of considerations—the importance of the duties, the rank of the officer, the ex pense of the place, its healthiness or unhealthiness, and many other considerations. He had loo ked o v e r the list with great attention, and had endeavoured to apportion the salary to the duties. In reply to a question from Mr. GROGAN, Lord PALMERSTON said it was quite true the salaries in China were arranged on a very high scale. All the salaries under the East India Company were en a high scale, but he hoped he would be able to reduce them considerably. A — Ir.HENLEY said that the consular establishments in China were a comparatively new creation; and if the consuls in other parts of the world saw that the consul general to China had an outfit they would expect one also. In his (Mr. Henley's) opinion the outlay for an outfit was altogether unreasonable, especially in a case like this, where the consul was paid so high an amount for his expenses. ANSTEY said that the vote was objectionable, not only because the office of consul in China was a new creation, but because the consuls exorcised powers which did not attach to the office of consul in any other part of the world; for they were invested with diplomatic and judicial functions as well as those of a commercial cha racter. With the sensitive disposition of the Chinese people he thought this system was calculated to inter rupt friendly relations between the two countries; and he hoped the Noble Lord would be induced to revise it, as it had been found in practice most pernicious, and consider whether it would not be better to confine these gentlemen to their proper functions, which were entirely of a commercial character. Lord PALMERSTON was of opinion that nothing was more adapted to secure the permanence of peace be tween this country and China than that system of juris prudence to which the Hon. Gentleman had alluded; because any body who knew the state of our relations with China before the treaty of Nankin, and the institu tion of that system, must be aware that disputes of an embarrassing nature used frequently to arise from the fact that it was impossible to deliver up a British subject to the Chinese authorities for having committed an of fence, inasmuch as to do so would be to deliver him to a cruel and barbArous death. So far from thinking it to be a matter that ought to be altered, he could only say that eleven years' experience had shown the wisdom and expediency of the system. Mr. C. fIINDLEY asked whether information had been received of the arrival of Dr. Bowring at Canton,- and his reception by the Chinese authorities? 14 ,, rd PALMERSTON—The last accounts announced the Learned Doctor's art ival at Hong-Kong, but he had not then got to Canton. He had no doubt, however, that, his reception w ou ld b e suc h as hi s personal appearance and merits entitled him to. The vote of 20,0001. for extraordinary disbursements of missions abroad was agreed to without discussion. The House then resumed, and the Chairman obtained leave to sit again. The Defects in Leases Bill was read a third time and passed. THE PUBLIC IIEALTEI (SCOTLAND) BILL. On the motion of the LORD ADVOCATE, this Bill was referred to a Select Committee. Lord J. RUSSELL said, he would take the Incum- - bered Estates (Ireland) Bill first on Monday; and then the Committee of Supply. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER obtained leave to bring in a Bill to amend the 56th Geo. 111., et. 68, for the creation of a coinage of a lower denomina tion than sixpense. ' Mr. WALPOLE obtained leave to bring in Bill for explaining the Act granting the sites of schools. The House adjourned at a Quarter-past Twelve o'clock. PARLIAMEN TAR Y B USINESS.' (From the Votes and Proceedings of the House of Commons.) FRIDAY, JUNE 1. STANDING ORDERS COMMITTEE. The following Resolution was reported from the above Committee : That in the case of tb e Lancaster and Preston Junction Rail way Acts Amendm tnt ( Powers to alter Tolls, and Appointment of Officers) petition for additional provision, the standing orders ought to be dispensed with :—That the parties be permitted to introduce their additional Provision if the Committee on the Bill shall think fit.—Resolution agreed to. PARLIAMENTARY DIVISIONS. (From the rotes and Proceedings of the House of Commons.) FRIDAY, JUNE 1. SUPPLY. (IN THE COMMITTEE.) Motion made, and Question proposed, " That a sum not exceeding 24,2331. be granted to her Majesty, to defray the expense of maintaining the several Public Buildings in the Department of the Commissioners of Public Works in Ire land; also the expense of Inland Navigation and other Services, under the direction of the said Commissioners, to the 31st day of March, 1850 :"—Afterwards Motion made. and,Question put,' That a sum not exceeding 23,0071. be granted to her Majesty, to defray the expense of maintaining the several Public Buildings in the Department of the Com missioners of Public Works in Ireland; also the expense of Inland Navigation and other Services, under the direction of the said Commissioners, to the 31st day o f M arc h , 1850." The Committee divided: MINORITY—AYES, 27. Alcock, Thomas Fordyce, A. D. Lockhart, W. Anderson, Arthur Fox, W. J. Martin :J. Arkwright, George Galway, Viscount Neeld, 'Joseph B•uett, J. Goring, C. Flowden, W. I. Buck, L. W. Hey - worth, L. Sidney, - Alderman Cole, 11. A. Hill, Lord E. Tyrell, Sir J. Dod, J. W. Hindley, Charles Wyld, James Drummond, Henry Jolliffe, Sir W. G. TXLLEILS. Duncan, George King, P. J. Beresford, William Fergus, John Knox, Colonel Spooner, R. MAJORITY-NOES, 96. Armstrong, Sir A. Grace, 0. D. Ogle, S. C. Baines, M. T. Greene, Thomas Palmerston, Vie. Baring. Sir I. Grenfell, C. Pascoe Parker, John Bellew, R. M. Grenfell, Charles W. Pechell. Captain Berkeley, Captain Grey, Sir George Peel,:Sir Robert Blackall, S. W. G ey, It. W. Philips, Sir G. R. Bowles, Admiral Guest, Sir J. Power, Dr. Boyle, Colonel Hallyburton, Lord Robinson, George Brotherton, J. Hawes, Benjamin Romilly, Sir. John Brown, W. Hayter, W. G. Russell, Lord John Burke, Sir T. J. Henry, Alexander Russell, F. C. Cardwell, Edward Berries, John C. Rutherfurd, A. Clements, Charles Hervey, Lord A. Shelburne, Earl of Clerk Sir G. Howard, Lord E. Sheridan, R. B. Clifford, 11.1 M.; Howard, C. W. Slaney, Robert A. Cobden, Richard liumphery, Ald. Smith, J. A. Davie, Sir H, Jermyn, Earl Smith, J. B. Dawson, T. V. Jervis, Sir John Somerville, Sir W. Denison, Edmund Labouchere, Henry liitansileld, W. R. C. • Divett, Edward , Laseelles, W. S. Tenison, E. K. Dundas, Admiral Lemon, Sir C. Thicknesse, Ralph Dunne, F. r. Lewis, Sir T. Thompson, Colonel Ellis, John Littleton, E. R. Thornely, Thomas Elliot, J. E. Mackinnon, W. Townsheud, Captain Estcourt, J. B. B. Magan, W. U. Verney, Sir 11. Evans, Wililam Mahon, Viscount Willyams, li. Foley, J. H. Mangles, R. D. Wilson, Matthew Fortescue, J. W. 31aule, Fox Wood, Sir Charles French, F. Milnes, R. 3fonckton Wood, W. P. Gibson, Thomas M. Mulgrave, Earl Wyvili, Marmadnke Glivistone, W. E. O'Connell, Maurice TELLERS. Glyn, G. C. O'Connor, Feargus Tufneil, Henry Goulburn_Henry O'Flaherty, Anthony Hill, Lord Marcel - Motion made, and Question proposed, " That it 81101 not exceeding 57,200/. be granted to her Majesty, to p a y Or Salaries and Expenses of the Department of her Majesty' s Treasury, to the 31st day of March, 1850 :"—Afterivards Motion made, and Question put, " That a sum not exceed ing 52,1601. be granted to her Majesty, to pay the Salaries and Expenses of the Department of her Majesty's Treasurly to the 31st day of March, 1850." The Committee divided: MINORITY—AYES, 33. Beresford, William Gibson, T. M. Perfect, Robert Buck, L. W. Greene, John Plowden, W. H. Clay, James Henry, Alexander Sidney, Alderman Clay, Sir W. Heyworth, L. Smith, J. Benjamin Cobden, R. Knox, Colonel Stanfield, W. R. Cubitt, William Lacy, H. C. '1 hicknesse, R. A. Drummond, Henry Lockhart, W. Tyrcll, Sir J. East, Sir J. Lushington, C. Walmsley, Sir J. Ellis, John Martin, John Wyld, James Fergus, John Mitchell, A. T. TELLERI. Fox, W. J. O'Connor, Feargus Henley, J. W. Galway, Yiscount Pechell, Captain Spooner, Richard MAJORITY—NOES, Si. Anson, Viscount Frcestun, Colonel Paget, Lord A. Armstrong, Sir A. Goulburn, Henry Paget, Lord Clarence Armstrong, R. B. Grace, 0. D. Palmerston, Arundel, Earl of Grenf e ll, C. P. Baines, M. T. G ren f e ll, Ch ar l es W . Baring, Sir F. T. G re y, Si r G . Rich, Henry Bellew, R. M. G rey , R . W . Romilly, Sir John Berkeley, Captain Gr osvenor , L ord R. Russell, Lord J. Blackall, S. W. Guest, Si r J o h n Russell, F. C. H. Boyle, Colonel Haggitt, F. R. Rutherford, A. Brotherton, J. Hawes, B en j. Shinto, R. D. Parker,Pow erpj ro.h Viscount John Brown, W. Hay, Lord John Sheil, R. L. Busfeild,William Hayter, W. G. Simeon, John Clerk Sir George Heywood, James Slaney, R. A. Coke, Edward K. Howard, Lord E. Smith, J. A. Craig, W. G. Jervis, Sir John Somerville, Sir W. Crowder, R. B. Labouchere, Henry Tenison, E. K. . Dalrymple, Captain Lascelles, W. S. Thompson, Colonel Davie, Sir Henry Lewis, G. C. Thornely, T. Denison, Edmund Littleton, E. R. Townley, R. G. Halides, Admiral Magan, - .W. H. Verney, Sir H. Dunne, F. P. Mangles, R. D. Villiers, Cherie.' Ebrington, Lord Maine, Fox Willyams, H. Elliot, John E. Monsell, William Wilson, James Evans, John Morison, Sir W. Wood, Sir Charles Evans, William Mostyn, E. Foley, John H. M Wy - rill, Marrsadu ke ulgrave, Earl Fordyce, A. D. O'C onnell, John 'mixes. Tuttle% Fortescue, J. W. O wen, Sir John Hill, Lord Marcus —AlthoughlSTOLth, RAILWAY SHARE MARKETS. Bj e u m Nz ark h et was not so Arm 41 2. STocK EXCHANGE yesterday, and prices receded, th ere was a good business done Great, Western, Quarters, at 6% to 7 dls. LIVERPOOL. JuNt 1. STOCK EXcHANGE.—The share market was extremely fiat t°:: day. Towards the close, however, a better feeling prevailed. Th e sales are—Eastern Counties, 3 —Great Northern, 9% dis.—Laticr 4 shire and Yorkshire, Fifths, c. dis.—Great Western, 171. Shares. 4 '/` dis.—London and North-Western, 125—Ditto, New Quarters, 2% P, ( 7i. Ditto, Fifths, 41 c. p.—Manchester, Sheffield, and Lincolnshire. 4 ` Shares, 11% 015.—Midl an d , 6 8 ;6 —Ditto, Halves, 11%d13.—Nort 1, Union (A), 220—South-E as t ern and Dover (No. 4), 6% e.—Torir Newcastle, and Berwick (Extension, Nos. land 2), I. 13s. 9d. Ditto (G. N. E. Purchase), guaranteed 6 per cent. till 1111 0 . 785. 9d. dis.—York and North Midland, 30%. BIRMINGHAM, JuNE 1. STOCK EXCIIANGE.—The only transactions to-day were in shire Unions, at 21. YORK, Max 31. . . , STOCK EXCWANOE.—The trans actions to-day have be en as fol . :—Eastern Union, Class B (late I. and B.), s—Ditt o , Class 0, lows ea t Northern, 101. Is. 3d.—North-Western, W. 17s.— Sheffield. Rotherham, aad Goole, No.LDAlvs.o(oguwafa3nitAeedy 3 5 1 p . per cent.), in. STOCK Exert...Nos.—The transactions t o -d ay have been as fo l. d' i.f 4 ,i lows :Glasgow, Kilmarnock, and Ayr, Hal ves (N o. I), 6g, 93......1f0rtil British, Quarters, 595. Gd. —Stirling and Dunfermline, els. .41 ......—. 5 at'<‘; Mr. Saunders, M.P., transacted business yestetdal - . ' ',. . .1 the Office of the Commissioners of Railways. • • rADVERTISEMENT.J—THE EARL OF A imgoitOtra li ...,1 gd ' ) AND HOLLOWAY'S PILLS.—An astounding cure by this mira...—t c , medicine, aster every other means had failed. See extract frora.l,, . +,' Lordship's letter, dated " Villa Messina, Leghorn, Feb. 21, I ° 4 o, 'V' Professor Holloway—Sir : I beg to acquaint you that your pills ha ve ~,,,s t fected a cure of a disorder in my liver and stomach which all th e i n „ . " o l ' 1 eminent of the facility, at home and all over the continent, had n ° been able to effect; nay, not ever the waters of Carlsbad or ; To 1 rienbad. (Signed) " Au:um/Loran." These wonderful 1) 111 $ ...It ' 1 cure any disease of the liver or stomach.—Sold (also rielloWtra Ointmant) at Professor Holloway's Establishment, 244, Strand, '' by 411 medicine vendors throughout the civilised world. _ BITS. On the 31st ult., at Hanov R er-Hsquare, the Lady Charl° tte Chetwynd, of a son and heir. On the 21st ult . , a t t h e M anor -house, Little Marlow, an all , the lady of Lieutenant-Colonel Snell, of a son. y e of On the 28th u lt., at W alliscote, near Reading, the WI J. Parkinson, Esq., of a daughter. On the 30th ult., at Torquay, the wife of D. DinkillO n t Esq., .of a eon. --.. MARRIED. -nye, On the 31st ult., a t Ch e l ms f or d , t h e R ev. James B. 8.D., vic ar o f G reat W altham, Essex, to Emma _ra.,,r;a.. youngest dau g ht er o f t h e l ate R ev. Th omas Mill s, of LA' hall, and vicar of Bumpitead Helion, in the same count DIED. I' ADO' At Harrow S c h oo l, on th e 31 s t u lt., th e H o n.r Ashley, aged 17, the second son of Lord Ashley. , i at On the `2lst ult., at Gillingham, Dorset, Harriet, younoii, daughter of J. Messer, of Bruce-grove, Tottenham, a On. the 27th ult., Mr. Baxter, of Ituxley-farm, Nort Cry' Kent, aged 63. ___:_—__-!.......% • of London : Printed and Published by IVIURDO YOLLACt i s, Na. 112, Strand, Printer, at The Sun Office, s° ' a Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, in the OWN Middlesex, Saturday, June 2, 1849.