The Sun. — London, England, 1824-05-07 00:00:00

seetleed th e pluralities to which he had before alluded, and were made on the Established Church, and under the specious danger in which it had that night stood. He regretted it had clamed the unio n s of livings and benfi ces , f or p er f orm i ng pretext of serving the Catholics of Ireland. It is proposed to been introduced ,into the argument of the Hon. Member the duties of w hich Curates were req u it e d w ith The, 801., give the Catholics, not a• concession, but a triumph, and to for Aberdeen, because the use niade of it must be injurious. :',/. o r 901. p e r annum, that a Non-resident Dean might re- increaseanimosity by &partial success. For the feelings which Every person. must see the Rom a n Catholic questi on h a d ceive one or two thousand pounds per annum, and that too were entertainedtowards the Established Church by the Irish been improperly introduced. When the Hon. Memb er join from a people who had another Ch urc h E sta bli s h ment o f C at h o li cs, h e would refer the House to a pamphlet lately e d t h e C atho li c quest i o n to his plan of taking away the pro their o w n, which rendered the exaction doubly scandalous. published by a distinguished Member of their Church, and perty of the Irish Hierarchy, lie should protest ag a in s t his H e next brought forward the preferments of the Rev. R. which hadebeen since adknowledged by the Catholics as State advocacy. In supporting the Roman Catholic qu e stion he Allen, Dean of Raphoe, the Rev. Gilb er t A us tin, an d o th er ing the sentiments of their whole body, but its - sentiments should always do it with strict regard for the vested rights of pluralists, described their unions, a nd th e sums p a id t o t h e Cu_ h e did no t believe `were . . those of all who professed their a ll c l asses. No i n f r i ngement of the rights of the Established rates who officiated for them, and declared it would compl e t e ly faith. It was ti me t h at the House of Commons s h ou ld show the Church should ever make part of his argument in support of tire the House if he were to go on with all the statements of Church of England that it was not neglected by them, and that that question. He entreated the Hous e not t o su ffer the Ca this kind which it was it his power to make. There was one they were not indifferent to its interests ; to show that this was tholic body to be implicated in any opini on subversive of other point to which he must refer„..-.the Act for pr o vidi ng re _ not a pe r iod wh e n it s ene m i es could rush in and seize some of public right. He did not know there was a great deal to sidelines for. the officiating. Clergy. In this instance he charged what they c a ll e d it spo il s ; to s h ow th at t h e l eg i s l a ture would complain of in the wordin g of the Honourable Member's mo -the Bishops with a downri g ht neglect of duty. The Act to which not Banal oppression ;_ and to show that the oppression of one tion—(Hear, hear, hear !)—b u t h e sh ou ld j u d ge of the motion he referred. provided th a t w h ere the- e moluments of a li v i ng ex . party cou ld n ot b e nec e ss ar y to the protection of the other. Ile by the arguments which suppOrted it. Looking to the spi _ceeded 100/, per annum, measures should be taken-for building A liked toleration, but he would be always anxious to give a Pri- nions expressed with resp ec t to .Church property, he could - a glebe hous e . In twenty or thirty instances it appeared that this mart' influence to one religion alone. He would ask, - was the not say, as a friend to th e C at h o l ic question, that i t was safe • had be en neg l ecte d ; an d t h ere were pl aces w h ere f or twe l ve motion to b e considered as one of political advantage; or is it to in such company. He would n ever consen t. to embark with years no g l e b e hou ses h a d been standing, yet the provisions of take off a burthen from the Irish peasantry which they are the Honourable Member unde r sea l e d or de r s. lie had no • - this Act h a d not been enforced. This circumstance alone, he unable to bear ? It was clear to him that it must be indifferent desire to quit terra firma an d so un d argumen t. " Take notice, thought, ought to i n d uce th e House to give theirsanction to the to the Irish peasant whether he paid 12s. tithes and •20s. to the Mr. Speaker and the. ++ said the Right Hon. Gentleman, • proposed enquiry. He had to state that since the Right Hon. landlord, or whether he paid to the landlord the whole 325., for "of the nostrum held up for the cure of the evils of unfortunate G en tl eman ' s Bill passed for enforcing residence, two livings such would be the case. It was certain that this tax was paid Ireland. The Hon- Member sa y s rte are t o throw aside the Orin had been given to individuals who could not possibly, be real- by the landlord and not by the peasant, yet it was to relieve the ciples of our own countr y, dents. This lie was assured was a fact. it was well known that peasant that the motion was proposed, to take from him a bur , public—those of America." He did not wish, in one part of his and take for model those of a Re. t h ere were such things as " First Fruits," which had been made then, and to enable him to rise from the state of degradation in to argument, to abideentirely hy th e Am er ican model. The Hon. over to the churches tn both countries, he wished to shew with which he had sunk. Those who had not seen the lower Member did not wish to give. the property of the Hierarchy w h a t effect. The Church of Ireland was twice or three times classes of the Irish could have no idea of this state , , and he to the State, but to the Rom an Catholics. lle w a s quit e as r ich as -the Church of England. When the " First Fruits" (Mr. Stanley) knew that it would be most advisab le to rouse at a loss to know how the Honourable Member could carry were originally made over to-the Church o f En g land to augment them from it—from that want, and deprivation, an d ca llous . his intention into effect. The state would not .be justified the income of the poorer Clergy, the same bene fi t was claimed feeling which a long acquaintance with misery always brings ; in meddling with the property of the Church , unless in case of for the Church of Ireland. It was stated by Swift in his co rr e.. and to improve and -educate them would, lie thought be an exigency, when all property might be liAle. In common spondence,_ that when applicatio n was m a d e to the Minister object worthy the consideration of Parliament% If helt w ere cases the Crown could not interfere with it morethan with pri vate property. He could not avoid congratulating the /louse (Lord Godolphin) on the subject he remarked, " that when proved that the tithes were paid by the consumer, i could given, the ' First Fruits' would . b e of no use for the object in not 'conceive how the present motion could re li e ve the Irish and the public on the diSplay of talent shewn by an Honourable view, as they would not be appli e d to the relief of the poor poor, and if they were paid by the- landlord, t h e conc l us i on young Member' under the gallery. Ile might freely compli - Clergy." He, however, sof crud himself to be persuaded, must be equally obviou,s. If he were not moue en, and he mem *noble stock from which the Hon. Member came, on anti they were given. Now he wished to shew the difference believed he tyas not, the Irish had four great wa . nt! to com- having so much talent, ready to be called forth for the bane- the Church of Engl a nd and the Church of Ireland. plain of,—want of resident gentry, want o f. capital, ,want of fit of the country. The speech o f th e H on . m em b er h a d placed - in England the tenth of the First Fruits was taken from the, employment, and want o f 'education. T he H ono ura b le Gen _ the question in a proper point of view. Ile might ask what Clergy. In Ireland the twentieth was to to have been taken,' 'den= (Mr. Hume) had observed , that there w ere only three was to be the cons equen ce if ;b e mot i on were carried ? Tithes but was not, while in England the tenth had always been regn- intolerant nations in a state of wr etcbeduc 3 s , but he had were to b e ab o li s h e d. F o r 'th e p ur p ose o f th e Hon. Member's , larly paid.' In England the " First Fruits" were valued.and failed to show how the observation applied to the present argum en t, i t was a matteinfif indiff e rence which portion of pro were not to b e - re - va l ue d, w hil e i n I re l an d i t was ' express l y qu e st i on. He had drawn a l amenta b le picture, and perhaps perty was t a k en __ b y t h e l an dl or d , an d t h e propos i t i on. was to reserved that they s hould b e re - va l ue d f rom ti me t o time .— h e h a d not over d rawn i t , o f th e s t a t e o f som e e , of them ; but the take aw a y th e property o f t h e Cl ergy to g i ve i t to - the landed The First Fruits, w hi c h were to h ave b een ta k en f rom t h e present case was o f a different nature. Aere were through- Gentlemen. 'r a ki ng awa y prop er ty from one to . give it to rich in Ireland to augment the incomes of the poor Clergy, out Ireland a class 'of Protestant Gentlemen, correct and up- another could not bear a b e tter name than that of spoli a tio n , had not been so applied. This had not b ee n done, an d th us t h e r i g ht, necessar ily men of education, cornpellible, and now and when once that system began , let the owners of other pro- Church had been robbed by those who m er it e d t o b e ca ll e d com p e ll e d t o r es ide on their livings, and obliged, by the perty take care.. Let the Fundholder. be upon his guard.s_ spoliators, as he had been called a spoliator when he first laws of common decency, to - It" soberly honestly, and re- Spoliation justified in one case, would be a preced en t f or 'pos brought tide subject forward, b ecause h e d eman d e d justice. spectably. Al t h oug h h e (Mr. Stanley) a d m i re d th e main prin- liation in another. The Hon. Member had reverted to the num. What did the House -think th e " Fi rs t F ru it s ' , i n I re l an d c ipi e o f th e H on . Member (Mr. H ume) in its full es t extent, he ber of Non-resident Clergy, and the number was stated to be had produced in-the last-seven ye a rs. P er h a p s th e y wo od ta k e con t e nd e d th a t hi s m o ti o n w ou ld be one w hi c h, it' carried into 531. " Now, Mr. Speaker (observed M r . Pl un k ett) , I s h a ll the amount at 30 or 40,000/.1 What w ou ld th e Hou s e think, effect, would p r ov e mo s t i n j ur i ous to I re l and. He would refer hardly be believed, when I say if you strike off 600 from that when he told them that the sum thus obtained for the relief to the work he had before alluded to, and which, like .al- number, the 31 will be a considerable exaggeration. The fact of the' poor Clergy amounted to .9101. !—(Hear, hear !)—lf most all others on the subject, was filled with exaggerated is, the lion. Member has been painfully laborious, making, ever there*was` ft profane mockery of all th a t was sacre d, h ere stateme n t s . It w a s impossible to follow the Honourable diem- himself innacurate on the sub i ject." Ile had been informed th e r e might such mockery he found,• and thoseeeho sanctioned it bet for Ab er d een t h roug h t h e whole of his argethents, but were not twenty Beneficed Clergymen non-resident. If th e y acted against the law, - against religion, against the interests of there were one or two he would notice which referred more were wandering about as the Hon. Member described, why the Church, and in violtion of their duty to the public. The immediately to the asserted enormous receipts of the Esta- were they not seen. In no part of Ireland had he witnessed the "First Fruits," in England hadbeeteValuedat2lsgOln Ile must blushed Church in Ireland. It was state d i n t h e pamphlet absence complained' of. The Right lion. Gentleman begged now refer to the valuation of the fciar . Archbishoprics—Armagh, which lie had quoted, that, in the v ar i ous dioceses, there leave to ask whether it was fair to call upon him to explain an Dublin, Cashel, and Tuam: -These were rated at .C 1,051 8 6.i were 1,309 livin g s, averag i ng to 'each MU a year ; and that op i n i on given in 1822. He should, however, state to the House . The other 28 Sees in Ireland; now reduced to ' in the diocese of Cloyn e th ere were 56 benefices, 'amount- the circumstance's which led to his opinion th a t th e Fi rst Fruits . 18, were taken at .- . -2,12 h 12 e l) ing In a ll to th e sum o f f orty t h ousan d pou n d s , a year . But were v es t e d i n t h e Crown. The Acts passed in th e reigns of - it should be recollected that thi s l a tt er calculation was taken Henry VIII., and Elizabeth, he contended gave the Crown` from notoriously the richest diocese in Ireland., - and taken the amount of first fruits 'as theyappeareffin the King's books. f too, at a period when r e nt s were at t h e hi g h est pr i ce. Th e During 200 ' - .Years the drat - fruits were collected according to Hon. Gentlemen had diminished his calculation relative to the the rate in the King's books. A Gentleman - who collected said former subject; and had said that he believed the average to ha would' .controtit the Clergy, and take the value without. the be 8001. instead of 8001. a year. He (Mr. Stanley) had made King's book. The Right Hon. Gentleman decided that the in many inquiries relative to this point, from several Irish. Clergy- dividual had no right to change the practice of 200 years-- men and others; and hehad understoodfrom the authorities Secondly, he held, that if any change was -tube made, the indi that the fair average was but 250/. a year, instead of 5001. vidual had no authority to make it. With respect to the Pro He had received similar information from a Learned and testant Establishment of the country, he considered it necessary Excellent Prelate, the Bishop of Limerick, who had con- for the preservation and toleration of all other religions. The firmed the statement as it applied fo his own diocese, and heads of that establishment ought to, rank with Nobles of the who had said that he believed It was pretty nearly the same land. The Ministers should also he most respectable; but all over Ireland. If' this statement .were correct, and lie had speaking in apolitical sense, he thought the existence of the little doubt 'of its being so, the difference between the actual Protestant Establishment was , the bond of eecurity to b o th coo ii amount and that set fo r th i n th e p amp hl et h e h a d quote d , tries., The moment , they robbed it of its rights, the doom of was the difference between 1,7,0001. and 347,0001.. a year. The separation of the two countries would be sealed. pamphlet also declares, that the sum of 3110.000/. was r e ce i ve d Si r JOHN lIRYDGES opposed the motion. by the 18 Bishops, an d the 4 Archbishops of I re l a nd, th us g i v i ng Si r F. BURDETT - felt he should not discharge his duty an aver ade of 140001. a-year to each bishopric. The fact, as far were he to abstain froM an endeavour to oppose the -argument& as he ha been able to ascertain, was very different. He had been against the motion. With regard to Ireland,. one opinion' informed that, out of the 18, the amount received by 11, was seemed to be universally entertained, namely,. thatsthe people about 6,0001., by 4, 6,0001., by 1, 7,0001., and he had not been of that country were exposed to evils of great magnitude. He able to discover what was received by the remaining two. The was- aware that the - consideration of those 'wile involved feel- Hon. Gentleman (Mr. II.) had stated, that there 1,300 parishes in ;s of 'importance, and he felt so much embarrassed that he in the gift of the different . Bishops—that there were in the scarcely knew how to separate the question before the House diocese of .Dublin 144 rich parishes, and in th a t of Kildare 131. front the question of general grievances. Whenever, the ques. Butthe fact was, that in th e gift of the Bishop of Dublin there don was brought on they were sure to meet with repulse. If were only twenty, eleven of which were extremely poor, and they brought forward the state of the country, it was such a in that of the Bishop of Kildare not more than halt' the number: mass of difficulty that they could not grapple with it ; if, on the The Honourable Gentleman had also, among other grievances, other hand, a specific grievance was brought under considers quoted that of the 107 Rural Deans; but of this office the sole tion, they were told it was no grievance at all. The Right Hon. employment and profit consisted in being allowed to assist Gentleman.hzul excited his astonishment by making the asser the Bishops in the Gonsistorial Couloir. 'He (Mr. Stanley) tion that the present mate of the Church in Ireland was not con. was astonished to find this circumstance swelling up the list of siciered a grievance in Ireland. Ile held that declaration to, complaints. He had been informed that the receipts of several efforchee melancholy prospect fhr the people of Ireland, who Catholic priests am ounte d to 4001., SOW. and 000/. a year, and fia looked to the Right llarlfoenfleinah With confidence as that in one parish near Dublin the clergyman received 800/, the au otter of their rights., It held v ery th the Catholic Pe lle had also been informed by a nobleman who resided near pulanon a melancholy" Prospect, and little hope of re- Dublin, that, in many instances, the Protestants - were not only obliged to support their own clergy, but to give annual done- lief. He could state Ins' views with re -pest tO Ireland, but - tions to the Cathelio priests, in order that they might be on that unless thegot out of the ha cks d w ' ° f . old, h wever, say, y e rounne o measures, they' would be considered visioa ar ' H e good terms with their neighbours. He hoped he should not Ireland would sink Under; accuMulated distress. Sonic- be misunderstood ; lie did not contend that in Ireland there thing must be clone. The woandi bf that . suffering country' were no grievances to complain of ; he was sure that that coon- must be probed. • • The lion. Baronet allowed that great try suffering, more or less, from those evils which attended praise was . due to a youn g Member under . the Gallery, everything human. He was anxious that the question, in all who had spoken well; but he could not admit that any ar its bearings, should be considered. Ilevouldnot object that, at gun - lent could ' fairly bc urged in support of the conduct of some time or other, a commission should be'sent into Ireland to Ministers. Until the Right Honourable and Learned Gentle. be an eye-witness of its state, and to ascertain the best mode of man got up it was thought. that the speech of the Hon. Mewl affording it relief; but fie would object to its being sent forth ber to wh om h e h a d alluded was an answer to the argument of with prejudiced feelings, a nd having for its avowed object to his Hon; F r i en d. • He did not, however, join in that view. It reduce=-if' it were possible to reduce—the Church Establish.. was said his Hon. Friend was inaccurate. If so the returns laid ment of that country. This cause would be now prejudged be. on the table were inaccurate ; but what was the language of the fore it wail heard. He would confess- that 'the st ron g feelings Ri g ht' lion. Gentleman on -the subjeet of property? 'He was expressed by the H on . M em b er f or Ab er d een re l ative to the not disposed to look at the property of the ChUrch as he would Established Church of England and Ireland led him more par- private property. They all knew it was given to the Church ticularly to oppose this motion, 'notwithstanding that he wished for pious uses, and his hope was, that Gentlemen in that House to see given to the subject a full, free, and perfect investiga- would have the manliness and sense to hold in utter contempt tion.—The Hon. Member sat down amid loud and general such an application. It was given to the Clergy to be bench cheering.. cial to that body, and he would go the length of sa yi ng o f th e Mr. DAWSON a dd resse d t h e H ouse, but in the midst of Church establishment it was injurious to the public. With re so much confusion that his observations seldom reached the gal- spect to its possessions the Parliament could take it away. lery. After complimenting and thanking the last speaker, he —The Protestant ascendancy had been one of the greatest contended that the attack of the Hon. Member for Aberdeen scourges of Ireland. When it was shewn that ascendancy was unjust, and that it was the duty of the House to discounte- never would allow the people of Ireland to have equal rights, trance it. He would not attempt to deny that many abuses was it not time to alter the system ? The Catholics had per existed in the Church, and lie had the strongest desire to see seved so long in not giVing up their faith,' that they had them remedied. He was of opinion th a t th e r i g h t b y w hi c h t h e proved themselves worthy to posses s all the advantages i tithes were held by the Clergy was incontrovertible, and that which they demanded. It had been said leans could not its violation would destroy the security of every other kind of be advanced to Ireland because the people were not in a con property. He was inclined to think the Hon. Member for dition to enjoy good thing s. Ile - had heard a story, "An Aberdeen was not correct i n hi s est i mate o f t h e number of Non- Irishman was working o n high road, and a Gentleman resident Clergy and Absentees. The Clergy of Ireland were, knowing the man had some time before received a legacy, in his opinion, most respect a ble. In the nort h of' Ireland the s a id, Wh at , P at , are you wor ki ng ?—Yes, your honour. Why service of the Church was performed with the greatest solemnity you had a legacy?—Yes, but it is all gone. I wanted to see and regularity. how a Gentleman of two hundred a year lived." The fact Mr. DOMINICK BROWN could not withhold his tribute was, the people of Ireland had a taste 'to enjoy the good of praise to th e E sta bli s h e d Cl ergy o f I reland, but he was corn- things admired in E ng l an d, ' b ut t h ey wanted money. So pelled to say nothing, in his opinion, but a more equal division great was the misery of Ireland, and so connected was that of Church property would secure the peace of Ireland. The country with England, that the misery of the former threatened population of Ireland was seven millions; of that numbetive to reach, if not to overwhelm, the hail.. He had no doubt innillions and three quarters were Catholics. The members of thit much of our own distress was caused by the influx of the ' the Established Church were 500,000, and the rest 'Dissenters. poorer Irish, though he, of course, did not blame them. He The Established Clergy possessed one-fifth, or one-fourth of the did not wish to undervalue the benefit which would be derived property of the whole island. The principles introduced at the from Catholic Emancipation. He thought, on the contrary, Reformation had been accepted by the majority of people in that this would he a necessary ingredient of relief. But the England. In Ireland the Reformation was rejected, and, if principal mode of relief was to be sought in extensive coloni the people of that country h a d cons t an tly r e jected it, it was im- nation. He was not particularly attached to his plan, thOugh possible to say the Established Clergy had a right to the ohurch • be thought, to be surenthat it was better thah Mr. Oweri's plan property. 'une Roman Catholic Clergy were the legal Clergy. for the relief of Ireland.—(A Laugh.)—With regard, however, He should vote for the motion, conceiving inquiry into the sub- to the particular question before the House, he thought the mao. ject highly necessary. . tion was unanswerable. He had heard no sound objection to it, Mr. ROBERTSON said, the hope of restorrng peace in and even the Hon. Gentleman who spoke from under the gallery I re l an d depended on the union of the Roman Catholic and Pro- opposed it only becau se h e did not think this was the proper testant Churches. He thought th ere was a probality of effect- time fo r m a ki ng , or his lion. Friend theproper person for making ing that object. There was not much difference in the creed the motion. The Clergy of Ireland were a negligent body, for a of both Churches. The Lutheran and Calvinist Churches very good reason, because they had none around them who would were formerly opposed to each other, yet the Government of receive their religious tenets. They did no good to the people ; Prussia accomplished an union of both these Churches. A and indeed rarely came in contact with them except under cir- Bishop of Durhum had expressed hie belief that the union of cumstances of hostility. Eve r y thing he had heard convinced the Protestant and Roman Churches might be brought about. him that the motion for inquiry was unobjectionable. The Hon. Member was convinced, that until such an union Mr. LESLIE FOSTER opposed the motion. It *as clearly was effected nothing could be expected front Ireland. a motion to confiscate the property of the Irish Church, for the Mr. GRATTAN was desirous of st a ti ng s h ort l y a few obser- alleged advantage of the State. He denied the facts upon which vations. If the residence of Clergy could be procured it would it was a tt empte d to sustain the mot i on . H e d enied the alleged be most de s i ra bl e . With resp ec t to education i n I r eland, he insignificance of the Protestant compared with the Catholic thought there had been some remissness in the application of population. In the province of Ulster, for instance, he had the funds advanced for that purpose. Upon th e vie w he took reason to believe -the Catholics and Protestant s were pretty of the question, he should vote for the mo ti on o f hi s H o nourable well divided. He compl a i ne d, too, of the taking particular Friend., not from any hostility to the Established Church, but districts which were unhappily in a state Of disturbande, and from a most anxious desire to serve the people of Ireland. treating them as fair specimens of the whole. He must observe , _ Mr. PI UNKEr I ' said ' ' it was not hi s intention to trespass also, that a cons id era bl e portion o f w h at was called the Church at any length, and he was sure the House would excuse hum property wa's held by the Laity. He might almost take if in Having been alluded to by the Hon. Member with whom the the proportion of one to seven. The rental of Ireland was motion. originated, it was q Like impossible he could suffer the about ten millions, and the Tithes amounted to no more than House to adjourn without saying a few - words. Rising for one-seventeenth of that sum. In the diocese of Clonfert the that purpose,. he considered it his duty also to make some ob- Tithe did not amount to above Ikl. an acre • and in no other did serwations - on - the gen era l question.' lie did so more cape- it exceed 10d. He oppo se d t h e motion because . the proposed day for the Purpose of rescuing a cause to which he felt measure was unjust and impracticable. It was unjust because great attachment, namely, the' .Catholic question, from the 'it was in violation of the Act of UniOn, which guaranteed the - Total - x 3,177 1 . 4 `Now, for the . property , belonging to one of those Sees, he should be willing to give 50,0001. per annum ! Acts like those which had thus been exposed, .he considered a disgrace to the Government by which they were-sanctioned, and deserved to be held up to the reprobation of every honest man. The Eng :lish"Church had paid as First. Fruits,. in the last seven . years, the sum of 7 £5,199 0 0 And - - 8,861 0 0 • £14,063 0 0 • The'lriSh Church hid paid - within the same period, as he had already stated, 910/., being one-sixteenth of the sum paid by . the English Church, and looking at the.irish Church as pos .. esensing treble the means of the English one, fhe. ,sum paid to ' the First Fruits, compared with that- obtained'in.England, was -as 1 to 48. But he wished to shew the House how the Govern inent in ;Ireland acted .with respect to the First F ru it s . M r . e :Shaw Mason having proposed to assessahem at their improved value was opposed. He took the opinion of. gr. Allen, a -Barrister, which was in favour of his doing so. The opinion -of the Attorney. General was then obtained, and this describ - eed the legitimate course to be that ,of assessing the first .rates on the former valuation.; and Mr. Goulburn answered a • -memorial from Mr. Shaw Mason, by directing the old valuation .-to be taken, and announcing it to be the intention of the Lord - Lieutenantif Mr.'Mason persevered in his first desi g n, to de- . - 'rive him of his patent. This dm Honourable Gentleman re - • : go' stied as an overbearing act of power, to prevent that from - being done which was due to the country. He thought this matter, though-apparently a minor one, to be of considerable importance. If he knew any thing of the Right Honourable - ;Secretary for Foreign Affairs, or of the liberal principles which influenced his conduct, he would not suffer it to rest without inquiry and examination. The people new looked up - - to bins to see that justice was done, and he hoped that his shield woulkl not be thrown over such proceedings. This was • : . one of the pqints upon which he called upon the House to -support his motion ; and he never,' in the course.of his podia- - - • mentary experience, met with any thing that more strongly demanded inquiry. The HOnourable Member then referred to a book published at Oxford in 1808, the title of which we --could not he a r, co n t en di ng t h at it proved the right by which tithes are held to be ,different from the irrevocable and per manent right which secures other property. It was .known that the Declarations of Henry the Eighth were afterwards .-sanctioned and delared law by the Parliament ; and this book ' contained a Declaration of the year 1539, in which that Sove reign pronounced that" the payine of tythes 'should continue, Until it was the plea su r e o f the 'King to change it. Look. ing at the present condition e of Ireland, he thought the time" - was arrived when such change ought to made. If the num ber of Bishops in Ireland were reduced to four, which, with an Archbishop, was quite enough in his opinion, how much benefit must result from setting so Much land free of tithes,. and removing the 'irritation which now arose from the collec tion, and the entire evils .of the system. The Hon. Member -then, for the benefit of those Members who hadmot heard the speech, -recapitulated the grounds -.upon whi c h h e - c all e d f or t h e support of the House, -and concluded by moving the following Resolution :—" That it is expedient to enquire whether the pre -sent Church Establishment in Ireland be not more than compe tent to the service performed, both with regard to the number of • -persons employed, and the amount of the income received." • Mr. STANLEY (in a maiden-speech) begged to apologise in • eventuring to address the Route on the present subject. He corn - -mended the temperate nature of the motion which the Hon. Mem ber (Mr. Hume) had submitted to the House, but he thought - there-would Lie great difficulty, in shewing grounds for agreeing with him in what he had stated in relative to the established church of Ireland. Ile (M r . S.) cou ld not b ut cons id er t h at the J --time and .circumstances, under which the motion was brought for.. ward, were calculated to render it peculiarly unpopular. Its ten dency was to lower the authority of the established church, under the idea of alleviating the distresses of a suffering people. Hosti lity to any church he would disclaim; and in prejudice, if preju -dice it could be called, in favour of Ireland, he would yield to no man in the House. For years, the strongesteffbrts had been made, partly through the public press, and partly through private ..-cliannels ' to cast a stigm a o n th e E sta bli s h e d Ch urc h. Th e priVate faultti or crimes of its members had been dragged fbr -ward, and unfairly employed to throw an odium on the church -to which they belonged.; and he would venture to say, that if one half of the pains which had been taken to cast reflections on such persons, had been exerted to bring forward its virtuous j - members, that church would stand above the boldest attacks which calumny itself-could make upon it. He would assert, • that the clergymen of-the Church of England were equal to any other set of men whatsoever, in the faithful discharge of their public and private duties. He wished as much as any One to ameliorate the condition of Ireland. He felt deeply for - the interest of-that country, not for its sake alone, but because it was s 0 blended with this, that the prosperity of Ireland was it difficulties o of England,—the difficulties of Ireland were th e the prosperity England—and the misery of Ireland, - was equally the misery of England. He should grieve indeed if he were 'mistaken in the opinion he entertained, that every individual in the House was deeply anxious for the permanent good of Ire land. But the.more unanimous they were on this subject, the 'more careful they ought to be to inquire into the best method s ' -for her relief, lest their kindness should prove in the end cru e l ty, -and their gifts destruction. He did not wish to canvass the shew H thee would difference not ar guments which had been brought forward to - between church property and other property. -say that in all cases the Church property . ought to he held sacred, but he would say that as much caution should be re quired in touching it as in other cases. He could, hoWever, ewith great satisfaction say, that no such temptation—that no -such necessity existed now. He would not state that circum stances had not occurred which had produced, and were calcu lated to produce, increased violence on the-other side; but the -Catholic Church was now a settled one, time had given it stabi lity, and its rights of property were secure. No Miniater dare, -and no one in the House could propose the extinction of that 'Church. .He was fully convinced ; and he hoped the House -would be of the same opinion, that the measure, instead of as- Sisting, wodid injure the people of Ireland, and be detrimentai , to their interests. Is it to be considered as a means of conces'- sion ? He would ask, what was to be gained from it, and how it was to . procure this advantage ? For the first time attacks Church Establishment of Ireland ; and impracticable, because it threatened to affect the rights of the laity much more than those of the Church. Mr. H U3IE replied. He contended that he had in genera: correctly stated his facts ;. and that no reason had been drawn: from them . to spew that his motion was either unjust or unne. cessary. The House then divided, when there appeared— For the motion - - - - - Against it - - - - 152 LITERARY NOTICE. The PRIVATE JOURNAL of CAPTAIN G. F. LYON of II M. S. HECLA, during the recent VOYAGE w DISCOVERY under CAPTAIN PARRY. With 3 Map and Plates. Octavo, pp. 468. Captain LYON is already known to the public by his travels in Northern Africa. In the present instances h e has added considerably to his claim as a narrator, and weshoe seldom perused a work that has afforded more amusement and information than this " Private. Journal." The writings of Crantz, Egede, and the Missionaries, have indeed made us ac quainted with the E squ i maux, but the miserable beings w h ich Captain Lyon has been with, were never visited before, an d ' from the two winters passed in their society much informs tion has been obtained, and we seem to feel as in the midst of them., did not our optic and olfactory nerves en . nr luce us to the contrary. The work very properly is dedicated t 0 tha t this Parry ; an d i t- i s no slender praise to the author tt -- this fearless and daring navigation of the frigid zone, an eye witness of the facts, advised its publication, or that a dectle man so conspicuous for his scientific research as Mr. BarrP w ' should concur in the mine opinion. From the preface we takC the following extract :_« Being sent with the other Journal s "'to the Admiralty, in obedience to Captain Parry's instrac' " tions, my friend, Mr. Barrow, in returning it to me, ad " vised me strongly to publish it, on account of the number " f " little an ec d o t es it contained, relative to the habits and dise " sition of a people entirely separated from the rest of th e " world, and with whom we had for so great a length of tinie " kept up an intimate and constant intercourse. • .I.le observed also, as an additional inducement, that " Captain Parry,' in his authentic and official 'account of the " expedition, had not deemed it it or necessary to enter in " to many of those minute - and peculiar traits w 1,411 ar e "requisite for displaying the character of a strange people' " Captain Parry's opinion on this subject agreeing with M e ' " Barrow's, I could no longer hesitate; aml, therefore, after " few abbreviations, and the omission of some details of $ 3. " tural History, and of scientific observations, I sent the art " ginal manuserintns?.the printer." The account of the voyage has already 'been noticed in Tar SUN of the 27th March, we shall therefore confine our selves chiefly to the Esquimaux, and some minor details, e u the passage up HudSon's 'Straits. A bear' wan killed, " he " boldly turned to face his pursuers" (in two. boats) " as long as he had sufficient strength, for lie swam rapidly, and could " make long springs in the water." He was of an astonishing size, and weighed upwards of 1,6001b5.. The length from th e snodt to the insertion of the tail was 8 feet 7i inches. The girth round the body 7 feet 11 inches, and the height a t the shoulder 4 feet 9 inches, with every other part in proportion.--' The " prize," Captain Lyon says; " was very fat ; his colour " of a yellowish white, and the hair covered with a ki n d of " sticky off, which gave it a shining appearance, and made the " hands feel very clammy after touching it. On opening the " body, a noisome effluvia filled the whole ship. The smell " was very pu ngen t, an d qu i te di fferent from any other I ha d " ever experienced. The heart continued to beat on being " taken out, although the animal had been three hours deans " Our seamen ate it without experiencing any of those bad "effects which old northern navigators attribute to bears' n flesh." After procuring a large tub of blubber, the carcass ' was thrown overboard. The first visit from the Esquienaux Was off the savage islands. Capt. Lyon says " a first interview cl oe " not authorize my attempting to describe their features ; b ut s " I may safely say, that I could not, even in a dozen ligitS, Its as nsaltidcfiiirtecsi,aolasfdyotopeibliitahffiasarernofaiu: " have discovered the regular colour of their skin, from its dullb attempts eing c o s p o p c e t vtoerrraecbder brown its t a h n aturalbc blood, r "appeared very generally to exist; many persons 'lad los t " their eye-lashes, and some were nearly blind." A long and minute detail of their dress is given, and so determined were they to procure articles from the ship s t h at " b oth sexes eager l Y sold their clothes, and some went away nearly naked." The females, however, were not so rapacious, for Captain Lyon says, " I do not rememb er to h ave seen a single lady part with her " breeches, while th e gent l emen were by no means so scrupu , " lous, and evinced no shame at appearing nearly naked." Various jokes passed between the Esquimaux' and our seamen, and a Newfoundland dog, who had been taught to fetch and carry., afforded them much diversion. A black cat belonging to Captain Lyon was considered a far more formidable animal, and none of them could, be persuaded to touch it. As might have been anticipated some instances of dishonesty occurred, but which could scarcely be wondered at from the many temp tations that presented themselves. The expedition proCeeded up Hudson's Straits, where they had a similar visit from another party of Esquimaux, both sexes of which had "however " cleaner faces, or much fairer complexions ; and such is , " the taste and so singularly it varies, that there was one "of the young girls considered as very pretty."—As usual ' many articles were exchanged, and among other things procured from them was an " hatchet of English manufacture, bearing " the initials H. V. and Co. It was mounted like an adse, on " a short handle, to which it was firmly attached by strong "thongs of hid e . Th e h a ft was scooped out in such a way as to allow the hand to fit, and each finger had its particular " place." The ships then proceeded off the mill islands into the frozen strait ; the Duke of York's Bay ; and on nearly every place where a landing was made traces of the Esquimaux ap peered. On the 18th August Captain Lyon accompanied by Captain Parry landed on the high eastern land in the latter bay He says " on landing we were led by a gradual ascent of " about half a mile to the foot of the mountains. This slope "was composed of th e i r soun di ng plates of magnesian lime stone ; and the few stunted willows rising three or four inches " from the ground, reminded me forcibly of the southern " *scent to the Soudah Mountains' in Fezzan. This reseal " blance was not a little strengthened by the total absence of " all living creatures." In Repulse Bay Captain Lyon, with the assistance of one of the seaman, found the crown bone,and ultimately the whole skeleton of a whale. He says " Inlay " across the upper end of a small green ravine, and was at " least 100 feet above the level of the sea ! with the exception "of the head, every part was covered with fresh moss and dark "earth, through which a small stream of water was oozing. " It is well known that the Exquimaux carry large portion's " of whale's b ones t o t h e i r h uts, for the purpose of collecting " the oil which exud es f rom t h em ; and they afterwards make " use of the dry bo ne i n construct i ng sledges, &c.; yet, allow " ing this to be the case, I can in no manner conceive it possi " ble for them to remove an entire skeleton even one foot, much " less up the steep side of a hill. The remains of which "speak wer e s o s i tuate d t h at no dwe lli ngs could be placed any " way near th em , an d t h e f act o f t h e i r l y i ng in a water-course, "-c does away with th e id ea o f th e i r h av i ng been brought to the " spot for the sake of the oil." At a further distanceporne Esquimaux graves were found, and in one a huh an skull which appeared perfect, hut broke on being lifted up. In ano ther near the skeleton were laid various implements of the chace and other articles, including little models of canoes, paddles, and other things, apparently children's toys. Some other graves were also found, in which similar articles were deposite. We shall now omit the furthe r details of the voyage' atil the, period when the ships were frozen in at Winter Island, where; after the necessary precautions had been taken for their pie servervation, the theatricals commenced. Capt. Lyon says, " A liberal subscripti on h av i ng been made amongst the Officers " prior to the ship s l eav i ng England, by which a stock of thee " trical clothes, &c. was purchased, it was now pr o p ose d by " " Capt. Parry, th at as our active operations had ceased f or a time, we sh ou ld ma k e arrangements for performing plays " once a fortnight throughout the winter, as a means of amus ing the seamen, and in some degree to break the tedious mo " notory of our confinement. As there could be no desire or " hope of excelling, every Officer's name was readily entered "on the list of dramatis personm. Those ladie s w h o h a d cher " fished the growth of their beards and whisk ers , as a d efence " against the inclemency of the climate, now generously agreed "to do away with suc h un f em i n i ne ornaments, and every thing bade fair for a most stylish theatre." On the 9th Nov. the performances commenced, and we can not do better than give Captain Lyon's account of it. "Our " first play was performed on the evening of the 9th; an ap- • " peared to afford much amusement to the raen ; our "dresses " were good, and the theatre tolerably large; to which way Majority - - - -73 The other Orders, of the Day were then disposed of, and at e Quarter past Two o'Clock the House adjourned. e t pie der 'van 1". .4 4 - 1 th e the fa "a 4 bi Z ti, e j vain a v al * ern o n IlvoOnput ant ink PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Jovis,- (s°' die Mad, 1824. CANAL—Glamorganshire 1 Bills read a second time, and corn. ESTATE—castle Island • i milted. Co etPAWlES—General or United Gas Light--Bill read a third time, and passed. Compressed Gas—Petition of the Rat cliffe Gas Light Company, against, referred to the,Commit tee on the Bill. Manchester and Salford Equitable Loan—. bill read a first time. Australian Waste Lands—Petition for leave to present a Petition for a Bill referred to a Commit tee. British Gas Light--Bill ordered to be brought in.. London and Westminster Oil Gas--Petition from Aberdeen, in favour, to lie on the table. EAST IMDIA COMPANY—Petition for leave to present a Peti tion for a Bill referred to a Committee. Roans—Commercial—Petition of Commissioners of Wapping Paving, against, referred to the Committee. on the Bill. Whiteparieh and Southampton, and Faversham—Bills read a third time. and . passed. Gas LiowT — Bi r mingham—Petition of Inhabitants, in favour, to - lie en the table ; Report on Petition for Bill read, and. Motion, " That leave be granted to give Notices of the ap plication now making to Parliament for the purposes men tioned in the Petition," made, and withdrawn. Greenwich ;;and Deptford—Petition of John Thomas, against, referred to the Committee on the Bill. ItstPßOTEXP:NT—lslington Petition of Inhabitants, against, referred to the Committee on the Bill. • IweLosultEs--Pamber and Inharst (Hants)---Bill read a 3d time, and passed. Sutton Coldfield (Warwick)—Petition of Owners of 'Estates, against, referred to the Committee on the Bill. CITY OF LONDON—Blvldriar's Bridge Debt—Petition for` Bill reported. Report to lie on the table ; Thames Naviga tion and Coal Exchange Debts—Bills ordered to be brought in. SUSPENSION BUDGE—St. Katberine's--Petition of Water men's Company, against, to lie on the table. Docx—St. Katherine's—Petitions of Watermen's and Ar , rnourers' Companies, against, referred to the Committee on the Bill. Petition ofCommittee of Inhabitants, complain . ink; of misrepresentation, to lie on the table. TtrerxEL--Thaines--Petition of Watermen's Company, against, referred to the Committee on the Bill. COAL TRADE—Sunderland —Petition of Ship-owners of King's Lynn, against, to lie on the table. • POOR RATES—Newton —Bill read a third time, and passed. BR wars—Hammersmith—Petition of Robert Tunstall, Esq. against, referred to the Committee on the Bill. BEER DuTtEs BlLL—Twenty-one Petitions from Brewers, &c. against, to lie on the table. ALE AND BEER—Petition from Oldham, respecting the sale thereof; to lie on the table. LAND TAX ASSESSAIENT.—PetitiOn from Taunton, against unequal assessment, tote on the table. P trim' cast s--Petitions of Licensed Innkeepers and Victuallers ' of Lowestoff and Halesworth, for the repeal of the increased Duties on Licences ; to lie on the table. - If ID ra AND SKINS BlLL—Petitions from Butchers of Bury St. Edmunds and Abingdon, in favour, and of Tanners, &c. of Leicester and Sh rews b ury, aga i nst, referred to thebom mittee on - the Bill. • WOOL—Petition from Woodbridge, against the repeal of the' Duties' on the importation of Foreign Wool, to li e o n th e t a bl e . WartEnousra) WHEAT BlLL—Petition from Woodbridge, against, to lie on the table. Second Reading deferred till this day. L/NEX BOUNTIES—PetitiORS from Londonderry and Cork, for. continuance of, to lie on the table. DISTILLERY Lawse—Petition from Linlithgow, for a free intercourse in home-made Spirits throughout the United Kingdom, to lie on the table. ASSESSED TAXES—Petition from. Clifton, for the repeal thereof; to lie on the table. HOUSE AND WINDOW TAX—Petition from Limehouse, for the repeal thereof, to lie on the table. SILK Du Tins—Petition of Manufacturer s , &c. of Dublin, against any alteration, to lie on the uthle. Galen Laws AsrEleoxixez T—Petition from Gloucestershire, against, to lie on the table. ORDEr c S OF THE DAY FOR THIS DAY. Laboureren! Employment Bill—Second Reading. Pauper Lunatics Bill—Committee. Judges in Wales Bill—Committee. Four per Cents. Acts—Committee thereupon. Assize of Bread Bill—Second Reading. Beer Duties Bill—Further Consideration of Report. Law StaMPs Repeal Bill—Committee. Tithe Composition (Ireland) Bill—Committee. Growing Crops (Ireland) Bill—Second .Reading.. Clergy Residence (Ireland) Bill—Further consideration of Report. Customs (Coals and Linens) Bill—Report. Slave Trade Laws Consolidation Bill—Report. • I Supply—Committee. - Ways and Means—Committee. • Saving Banks Acts—Committee thereupon. Dividends Transfer (England and Ireland Bill)—Report. Passage Vessels Regulation Bill-3Co' mmittee. Glass and Sweets' Bill—Report. Roman Catholic Marriages Bill—Second Reading. Warehoused. Wheat Bill—Second Reading NOTICES OF MOTIONS FOR THIS DAY. Mr. Martin (of Galway)—To increase of Salaries annexed to the Great Officers of State, and to high Judicial situa tions in the Country, so as to render them more adequate to the labour and importance of the duties to be discharged, and more worthy of the justice and liberality of the Nation. ix Charles Long—Bill relative to the affairs of Chelsea Hospital. 3. Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer —To move Grant out of Consolidated Fund, Exchequer Bills, and Surplus Ways and Means 1823, and to state the Budget. (In Committee of Ways and Means). NOTICE GIVEN YESTERDAY. Thursday, May 13. 1. Mr. Jones—Committee of the whole House on Salaries and Annuities to Welsh Judges. 2. Mr. Wodehouse (of Norfolk)—Continuanee of the present Salt Duties. 2. Si Tuesday, May 18. Mr. Peter Moore —Bill to repeal Combination Laws. TO THE EDITOR OF THE SUN. Portuguese Consulate Office, London, May 6, 1824. Si R—ln compliance with the in structions. which I have received, I reques t thi t t y ou w ill publish, for the infor mation of the public, his Most Faithful Majesty's decree, under date of the 10th of March last. . F. T. SAMPAYO, Consul-General. " lasnow, MAncx 10.—Orders are issued from" the office of-the Secretary , of State for Foreign Affairs, that all the Portu. guese diplomatic agents at Foreign Courts, do, each in the court in which he resides, cause to be published, that his Faith. fill Majesty never will recognize, nor consider himself bound tofulfil, any contract or engagement entered into by the pre sent Government de facto of Rio de Janeiro for obtaining a loan ; and that every other agreement of a similar nature, whatever be the guarantee or hypothec on which it is secured, shall ever be regarded by his Majesty the Ring of Portugal as null and of no value. The said agents are also ordered to make public, that Brazil wood, gold dust, and B ra zil di amon d s are art i c l es belonging exclusively to the Crown, and which may be re. claimed on the part of his Faithful Majesty in every instance in which they have not been sold for the account and by the order of his Government. Consequently, every contract for a loan on the hypothec of such articles, which, inasmuch as they form objects of Royal commerce, cannot but be regarded as property of his Most Faithful Majesty, must be deemed illegal."— ( Lisbon Gezettc. THE ARMY.' The 2d division of the 94th Regiment of FOot is ordered to embark, at Greenock, on board the Marquis of Ituntly, trans port, for Gibraltar. The 2d division of the 34th Regiment of Infantry is ordered to embark, at Portsmouth, on board the Princess Royal trans port, for Dublin. The 2d Regiment of Foot, now in Athlone ' is ordered to marsh from that station to Dublin, and to embark for England, on board the transports that convey the 34th Regiment f rom Portsmouth to Ireland. It is understood that the Bth Regiment of Infantry, which is ordered home, after being relieved in the lonian Islands by the lath Regiment of. Foot from Malta, will replace the 34th Regiment at .Portsmouth.