The Sun. — London, England, 1815-02-18 00:00:00

• - ME ENT. 11C) 1 .3St. OF T,C)IIITS. 'Fittn.Ar, I'rn. 17. , , Lord 41. , 0tti - , , ,lctc pre , ented several Petition; fr o m Co m. hridtte, Newriatliet, Zc. and the ithhe of No t tr'oLtz p u titit r.; frmr Tinntingdoo ntol iledford, a...taingt the Prr.prity'rix. Lord Grzr - sviur 'rose to that though be had leakon to believe at the motion which it lid been his inten'tiort. to rnalce would riqt ine«.4 with oppositi;ai ; yet, us he vei.,l !e d tri preface it . witlf Finale reniar::g, hr Wai not diitioged In bring it forward in the al:eilee of a - Noble Earl Li‘ - 6;14,61 i, - .Xcho wag }rcpt a -Tay by a most melancholneetaion (alludinz, .we soprose, to 1)?e death of the pors-et.) lie would, ihe - reforo, 'flaw 'noire -that the order be 'discharged, and b'e - I . ,±newed . for next. esda. , Lori'IYAHNLEY -ptwponed his motion' relative to the aural ,\do,inio - ration, for the same reason. LOrd LANSDOWN bvgged to ;,sit if a Oenern! Officer in our service, and in the receipt of his pay, wit,: now enipluS-cd in the expu,litinit fitting out .by the Spanish Gbverinnont for The suhjogation of the reyohifhinists in SolithAM'vrica ? rM d BATHUIV.T profesed thst he wa s entirely igno rant 'of such a cirentustanee.—Adjoarned. - --..tkarar--- 1 1 ,01:SF OF COMMONS • Petitions were .- pre,ented - :^rora the County of Canacestei, and the Towns of Hereford, Blacklmine, kendal, Reading, Halifax, and iTar-xick, against t Propet ty Tax.. Petitions were pre , entt.d from the Connties of Lola!) allot Cavan,, from the Landholtlers G; the too nties of Bedford :Ind Minting-don, and ft'oni several bistriets in F. , ,sex, praying an alteration in the Corn La'.'s. The Bleaching Powder Act Repeal Bill was read a third time, and passed. *Silt .I.VNits purr. Mr. ,WII/TBREAD Said appeared, by the paper cOMmunicated relative to the arrest of cer tain Spanisli subjects who bad taken refuge in Gibraltar, that the object of the motion on the subject was mistaken; It was expected that by the produilion of all correspondence carried on by Sir J. Duff with Lord Bathurst and the con stituted Anthorities Of Gibraltar, a fun and fair explanation would be given of his conduct hi pre venting those Unhappy and virtuous Virtims of a bad Government from effecting their escape by deans of the British convoy. Why did Sir J. SUninion . the Captains of the ships who com posed. the convoy, and compel them to declare whether any, and what Spaniards they hml ou board') This was a specific question, which it Was 'expected should he fully ansmered. The corre-, pondenee on the subject, on the part of Mr. Sted man, was by no means honourable to him. He ex i3re,sed a degree of exultation on the occasion which was 'absoltitely indecent. The account g i ven of the transation by Gen. Smyth was contradicted by I\lr.Pe.gblanch, one of those persecuted SpaniardS tvho was so fortunate as to effect his escape to this Country. It was due to the Iluuse that so full an . exposition should be given ou this Melan-. seholy subject as would leave no loop-hole to Sir J. Duff, General Smyth, and Mr. Stedman. He did not desire that a severer punishment should be inflicted upon any of the persons concerned this shameful affair, than tht. consciousness that they had been instrumental in condemning for ten years- to the gallies, that illustrious and virtuous Spaniard, Conea, who had shed his blood in the service of Spain, and in support of the ungrateful Sovereign by whom be was so inhumanly perse who 1ot:.1 two con. prisoners of war in France, one of whom was eleven times woundedi and tk hat was.the offence of the unhappy. father ? simply his haviog addressed a letter to Ferdioand -VII. recommending milder councils, and more re gard to tl-tose who composed the Cortes, and to whose patriotism he owed his restoration. The CFIA NCEE.L.OR of the EXCI-f?.P.TJER did not .know whether it was time intention of any lion. Member to offer a motion on this subject—he would haVe, pref:n-red that course, as more fair and regular, than invective pr o of s , an d declama tion without authority. - Mr. WHlTsaaAn explained. SPAIN. 7tTr. BENNETT wished to be informed by the - Right Lion. the Chau - Ceia of the Exchequer for what purpose certain sum% had been paid to the Spanish Government ; whether to conciliate the 'f.vour o Ferdinand the Seventh, or for the pur pose of trade, or,•as he was 'oust dispostd to be lieve, for the purposes of the Spanish expedition . to the New World. The CITANCi-'.I.LOR of the EXCHEQUER said, he found no difficulty in answering the question put by the lion. Gentleman. The sum to which he alludvd was destined to give two months pay to enable then to return to their families after the war had concluded. Sir J..Nxwro.rr wished to be informed whether ::;ir J. Downie, tt•lto, as Mr. Downie had been en g-aged with General Miranda, in the attempt to re volutionize the Caraceas, was; still receiving Pal 'fish pat', and at the s,ime time going out with Gtmeraf Morillo in the Spanish service to reduce tbo.ie very per. , ,ons to the yoke which he had for merly been instrumental in inciting them to shake off The CirANcELLoR of the ENCHtRUErt said, that al! he %vas altie to state to •the Right lion. Baro -nvt was, that Sir J. Downie was an Officer in the British Commissariat, and the brother ofa gallant 1 01f,cr who had f3tien in the engagement on Lake Champlain. Of his going out with General he knew nothing, • INSOLVENT DEBTORS. Ordered, On the motion of Mr. Alderman AT , that an account he printed of the names aud descriptions of the several persons discharged nu der-the last Insolvent Debtors' Act. • • BANN. REsnucTioN BILL. On the motion of the Cuntvicgt.tott of the Ex cnictuF.n, the Bank Restriction rill' was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Tuesday next. CORN LAW, Mr. ROBINSON moved the Order of the Day f or going : into a Committee of the At•lfOie (loon on he Reports oh the Lorck,and the Corn Laws - . tointrions on the Corn La were ordered to he referred to the s:one Committee. IV. Smntit (previous to the Sp ea k„,. lcav il)'! the Chli:j said, that whoa oil fornier occa _ sioti this pies:ion had"heen before the 'louse, he .ppo se d i nv , s r: ? ,,,iiffli of it then, on the ;.;roinni of its being prk.litatmre, rattier titan wi i th a view to nierit. His ()pinion at present Was swriewln't different frOM %Chia he :lieu eat erta tied. Il e thou,ght that lumen was gained by the interval tliat !tact passed ; but even till he considered (r e unstasouab'iv brought forwarii. lie !initi..i . m.not.l a few days ago, that the financial •, ,•• " i n "'Om , ,t the Hon. 'the - C mcolcello 0r the 1:x(1o:toter Would precede this-inq p uiryio as in due coarse they ()tight. If the only quest oin present \Vali a gesreral impdry i nt o t o e corn Law's, it th'ei's pi eeede the Isltaiicial tneastire ; but 'dle': it Vvas intended to PrOiVo . se a specific limita L tithi tit the importation of rpreign grain by . fixing a certain price, then certainly the former should be asCertained it One of the• essential principles by which the latter shottloL4c regfiloted. frhe fluty on foreign grain should Tie maioly regnlated, by the nature and extent of the Taxes to be brought forward. How could a prohibiting price be fi%ed at 63, or 75, or 80 shillings, or at any sum, without !list ascertaining to what amount, upon what articles, on and what classes of the public the 61\0 were to nress2 Was the House; be would ask, vet in pOsfessi‘ott of certain infornottion of the dis etninhance of the Property Tax He would also I Wish to be informed, before he was called upon t o give his opini o n on thi s su bj ect , w h et h e r the taxtepon agricultural horses, and other taxes of the same nature, were intended to be disconti nued.' The course now proposed wa eposter ons. The natural and proper order of proceeding ' was reverted. It would perhaps be said that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had -given a suffi cient assurance that the Income Tax should not be renewed. Of this he (Mr. W. Smith) should 1 be extremely glad, as be had ever considered it an odious and oppressive tax, awl a badge of slaVery. The Right Hon. Gentleman may smile (the Chau ' cellor of the Exchequer had smiled at the Hots. Member's ealliug the loco:1)e 'fax a badge of slavery), but he (Mr. S.) conceived the ingoisi torial dominion exercised by this tax, as 'border . in , upon servitude. If the Eight lion. the Chan celfor of the Exchequer gave a satisfactory pledge of its discontiniumee (a pledge which, by the bye, be chid out expect), he should not object to an inonediate discussion of the Corn Laws, brit with the possibility that still existed of its being re- Hewed; 'in preference to the measure which the Itieht Hon. Gentleman had to propose, he could not consent to go into the- discossions of the other question. ...the SPEAKER having then left the Chair — Mr. Rost NSON observed that his ()Illy object, on the present occa‘iou, was to state to tile House the general principles of the Resolutions to which they would be called on to agree, and previously to explain their nature. He believed that the forms of the House required that the Re solutions should, iii the first instance, be printed ; and that unless the Committee declined to' emer tain those Resolutions at all, that they should be voted. It was his'iutention, if they , were . ;reed to, that they should be refuted to Committee of the whole. He regretted that from his ;led dental 'absence on a former evening, when the subject waS mentioned, he had att been able to communicate what was "his intention ; but he trusted. the House would feel assured that it never was his Wish to propose the measure in such a 1 way as to preclude the fullest diScussion upon it at a future opportunity. If . the length of time since the topic Wiis first introduced had caused it to be at tended with the disadvautage of falling to his lot to bring irforward at present,th ere would he one great advantage to counteract his own want of ability—.- an advantage attending all questions Of this kind, that of receiving a notch more full, complete, and satisfactory investigation of all its circom stances ; rill investigatioo never likely to do barns ; but iu this case particularly beneficial ; as it would enable every Gentleman to come to the final dis cussion with his mind much better informed than itnrecipitatiofi had been adopted, nod to supply, front his own actual knowledge, whatever infOrtna thin might be ttecessetry. He had never disguised the fact, that the time when ithportation ought to commence was a matter difficult to be decided on ; hot he ventured to think that there need be no difficulty in adopting . the pr inciple he Was about to recommend. He believed that many of the prejudices which had, hitherto prevailed against the measure of prohibiting importation till Corn was at a certain price, had-been either totally re moved, or greatly qualified by inquiry ; but lie could not flatter himself, that they had been re moved fim! the Minds of many thouunds of persons in the whole country. Their opinionS, no doubt, remained unchanged, and were like ly to continue so ; but tunongi , t - Malty other thou sands, a great point had beet' gained ; for not only were their apprehensions mite(' removed, but the gross misrepreseutat ions so prominent as to . the object and motives of those who proposed and supported the measure, were dour; away. li e had no doubt in his mind, that the majority of the people no Fornioc believed that the object was the mean, baSe, and detestable ()ire o f enablin g • o ne class of society to gain great profits by agri cultural pursuits, to the injury of the rest ; and fi' his own part, if by ary possibility . he could believe that this.would be the effect of the onea sore, he deClared that no consideration on earth should have induced him to bring it forward, But he firmly believed that its only motive am! object teas to ClO good to th e commu nity at large. The course, therefore, %%Lich he hoped, and had no doubt the House would' adopt, would prove, that, it 'had scot in view the interest of any particular class of individuals, but that it was jegislating for the general be nefit of ail.. In looki ng to t h e principles that ' ; should g u id e their decision, they must recollect, that they were not now in the situation of decid ing fur the first, time, as to whether they shall act upon the principle of restriction or not. This point had "been deliberately discussed ; and on this, as on all subjects, they had exercised their discretion. They were not now to consider whe ther they should adopt this stein or not ; but they were to reflect that when a system is once adopted and. fully acted upon, it cannot be de parted from without such a tremendou s revulsion as , must be g e n era lly felt atoL.hiohly injurions. lA , hen we apply existing circumstances to different cases, we find a great similarity between them ; but trout not reflecting on this point, many persons are unaware that what is injurious, oppressive,. or, on the contrary, ath'ahtil:,4cous, in (Me branch, of trade or manufacture, applies equally so to others. For exiunple, wool is not allowed. to b e exported, even in the smallest quantities, front this coo n '- try; but he did not state this to support an argt- I uncut in favour of not allowing the exportalhin of any thing else; but in a question likc the pre-. Pe'riOn 'deeply Intel e&t l ed, what lie contended for was . , that it Should be `made a . consideratiiin to lie glinted by feeling.— . The effects produced by thiS System of resit iciion lave htieri., as every *id v knows, an ektraordi-ity ilierterte ail the agrirultu,re of the . cOuutry, Which has also been accompanied by an increase or charge in its fertilization ; becatts'e it IS well know that one land devoted to agrieultUre is of ti very limited extent, when couilimitd with the amount of population which is to be supplied with fbod ; and that in proportion as this population increases, which it has progressively and rapidly done of late years, together with a corresponding and extraordinary inctOse in the nninufactiires, in the same proportion is the demand upon agri. cultural produce for the supply of food. Whenever Corn is produced from laud, which has IP:en fer tilised at a great expense, it must be sold at a dear rate ; and the price may be hiereased by ad ventitious circumstances, dependent upon_ the seasons ; but this is the inevitable consequence of our situation, unless we have au unlimited impor tation from foreign countries to supply the ac cidental or regular deficiencies, which, if they were to' occur every year, would always. keep us in a state of want. He thought, generally speaking, that times might happen, when we might be in very great want and distress. In the first place, then, let us suppose that we were relying for relief on the importation of foreigh Corn ; and that our own home production had been greatly diminished.; and suppose, also, that at the same time there existed a scarcity abroad„ we should then hare to encounter the calamity of a double deficiency, which might pioduee the Must serious consequences..— Thereetne, although we pay a greater price for our own produce, the benefit we derive is greater and certain. Many eircomSttiuccs h ...es.t.es what he had alluded to- might allect the. importation of Corn, if we were permanently to rely upon it. War has affected it, and amity again ; besides which, it never could be enough to fetd the people. F"reig" na tions, might also be averse from supplying .us if we were at war with them ; and if ever any nation on earth was jealous on t his subject, it was Prunce, even at this moment. France, therefore, might eaike 1 prohibition to toke place when we were most in want cat iMpOriations ; and then what would' he our situation, and 'to what could we trust ? Ile really thought that such a reliance on haportations might at SOnle time or other prove fatal to our agricultural and mitinufacturing interests. Let the House look only to Ire, Iband That people were essentially agricul tural, although they did not themselves subsist generally 7 tipl+ll , Corn. The country, how ever, grows Much More than it CollstiflieS, and, therefore, the surplus produce should be en conraged to meet with a sale, in preference to foreign imports ; and if a sale is not to be found for this produce, then what -to become of the people ? ,If they ore driven from the home mar kcts, where are they to go ?-:-(Hear, hear would he impossible for them tb find a Market in ' any other country. It was not necessary fur hint to argue on the tremendous situation to which, 1 under such eircionstan'ees, that cbontey would be ' reduced. When we were told that this is a guts.- thou of humanity, and that the louse would thus not bejostified in taking airy 'measure to raise the price of Corn, he would ask, was it hunmnity towards six millions of the people of our empire to give to foreigners a preierence to them ? When ihe question of httaanity were so put, he thought it applied as strongly to one part of the country as to another. lie was not aware that there was any necessity to agree on this general principle any longer. He conceived he was addressing an audience capable of appreciating the brief argu ments he had made use of, and should not detain the Committee with any observations in The general result, he conceived, was, that it teas impossible for us safely to rely on foreign importa tions ; that if we do think we can rely on them, the conseupienee will bc, a diminution of our own agricultural interests ; that when the fatal mo ment comes, the shock will be of such ti nature that may easily be imagined, though he had but feebly endeavoured to describe it. The nation would find itself in extreme misery, and deplore its delusion. A principal point to be considered was, what should be the extent at which the prohi 'bition should take effect. On this there would most 'most likely be a difference of opinion.~ocneper sons might think it right to putt the price of impor tatiOd•considerably higher than what would be . proposed I oth e rs would Wish to fix it still lower, and tnight contend, that because many burthens were about to be removed, that a reduced price could be taken for the produce of the land, and af ford a fair profit: lie would not agree to this, if be could think the necessary effect would be to bring up the market price of corn to that point ; hut he did not believe it would be so ; for what with the competition between England and Ire land; the annnal produce would be so large, that except in bad seasons, he did not believe but what we should have a supply amply sufficient to feed the whole population of the country. Ile could not conceive what it was that could necessarily keep up the price of corn to the amouut at which the importation was to commence. The price he was disposed to recommend, was 80s. for Wheat, and that the relative proportions of other, grain should remain exactly as they are at present. The nature of the,Resolution that be had first to propose was, that at all times 'Meal and Flour of whatever description should he imported, with the excep tidn,of Flour, into Ireland, and that it should he warehoused, free of any duty, and exported also, till the average price for a given time could be certained; rescrviig, however, some principle with regard to the calculations but that the importation I should be prohibited till Wheat was at 60s. aft e r w h i ich all importati ons from any part of the world ,should, be permitted, free of duttyi; and then un der no eiretrmstances should Corn pay any duty whatever. With regard to the importation into our own Colonies in the West Indies and.Anie riea, the price should be Ws. which Would be iii the same proportion ,as 80s. iu Ent land; butt that it should not be usable till the market price was ills. and titter that it tti:uchous•_s fur lan c: propuartivau to g o i s.. trciul:l 1)111! that Gig. felt' vilyttliajoebssr:tie.zttsll3tid;.lki ficli."l.:icoiCielsl::ystitalo:::::.:euiG!ultr:ecis'dee... &t sv inch .the linter 100 (',f,srrve, that !I onl - e gonerai out but :he Rc,o;u:ions e;ould• not involve aa'Y &in'ndicated tilatit'!' ft dilmn,isiott'. be princi pal ottetion they' Ore fo he considered viould be, whether it would be right •tti adopt the IN:soh:- . tion, and whetlii4e Plice propoSud was the proper one to he tiked 3 As it wa's not his inten tion to call on the ik , use Id come to any specific' opinion at present, he trusted he should 1p! cttsed for ti it goiug into ftittlier detail on the subject. But be must that he felt extretnelti unwilling to undertake it, from a knowledge 0. ,,r , hii incapacity to do it justice. He would there: fore only ;i(1(1, that he die i in his conscience liere that tile measure was one of uni.:ersal De nefit and utility. He must state that it wits nOt his intention to . propose any alteration in the. method of taking the evereges ; but he pro - , posed to make one alteration in the mode ill ; which they would apply. the fluctuations in the prices during three months were often tonsiderable, lie would recommend, that ai ban' now stands, when the importation is allowe . d at all, it should be allowed for three months , . taking the average of the three weeks preecdiali, the three months. It might be objected, th 3. three months would allow of the intieoduction an enormous glut from France and Ft :nders, 311 . to invert the scale of prices on the itn,tane. should therefore "stTrest, that the period of three, months should be allowed for inipc)rtations frolti America ; hot with regard to those front 101' 14 bet ween'the' , Garonue and the Eider, if it a ppejr- , ed at the expiration of six weeks that the averlcill price below 80s. that the importation s hotatl then be stopped ; with a due :Allowance of tinie, however, fur the ships coming from distant of the Continent. 'That would prove a bar • t‘" speculation, aud he did not apprehend it. wonl'i be attended' with any had con?..equenees.—l' o Right Hon'. Gentleaan concluded by moviuo r, f t • first Resolution, namely, s"l'liat any sort of Foreign Corn, Meal, or Fidur, shall 1 1 allowki to be imported into the• United King•dom, and a" housed there, without the payment of any Duty whatever.' Mr. PiiILLIPS said, that if it was the will House to bring the subject now under debate, l t r c would at' once offer.his opinion upon it ;, but " otherwise,, Ire would be silent. (Several v oiee 4 , having exchimed—" Go on, go on !")—he saidi he agreed with the Right ,Hon. Gentleman, tba t I this was a question on which a gre a t variety of . opinions existed. It Was one On which the honi ed and the manufacturing interests were particn' Ludy at variance ; bat he should say, that it 'Ns ° the duty of. the Legislature not to pay attenti"! i to One class, in preference to aunther, but to adol' t . Mist and general principles. He felt stirprised ai its beiag thought that there was ally Gcc 3 : Sion to deliberate. What occasion was there I" labour at discovering a remedy for a low pri c . !, of grain ? Was it that we consider a re . ' I disadvantage What other nations conceive r', / be the greatest advantage they caul' posse;' • —(Hear, hear !)—A regular and uniform . pri c° is attempted to be fixed here by limiting the snr i ply ; while in all oth e r c o unt r i es it i s atta ined inercasnig the quantity.• He could not conco' any machinery More calculated for - producihg kt t effect (lir- ctly co»trary to what ought to be e . ; petted. 'llse Right Hon. Gentleman • say, ► shall have Corn cheaper by his noole than by (WWI: - litc,knA; 3 but how is thi,:,...r i pe e oat ?. has peculiar facilities fur the production' of Coi ls And therefore Ireland might surely bear c olapc ° ; - ; (ion With this coUntry without . iajnry. told, that We are not able to get a proper suP!,,,;',:;•; if we would. What was to prevent ? ' have found it whe'n it was wanted, even itt t worst of times, under the despotism ofnuonavn ° o —lf at aky 'time a Proclatiuition were issuca to procure a supply•of Cora, the effect would be' ` Li effort on the part of other countries to 's O Pl ) . ours. Could any person conceive way calctqated to increase the price oh corn, that) t ' e l experiment of cultivating inferior lands at hon' or n and you tiot go on iucieffnitelv Increasing `.l` e „ new tifilge, though. what is deeMed a retn"': rating . price this year may be thought far fro' remunerating price next Year. .121felZislit 1P ) ; 10 'Gentleman •says, that it is necessary to five same sort of privilege to agri cu lt ure as to th"' )i i., factures. (Mr. Robinson said a few I vorti 3 • c • expianation). Ile did state that the tnanutact af .a of the country would gain tunler the restrie ti : 2 ,, system. Let us consider the effect of this sYs t `' b e If it has operated, it has oceksioned capita! invested in trades in which we have no soperio. but are inferior 'to our neighbours. T l►i4 o ., positive' injury. Other manutactm es, ho'eve xvhieli are totally independent of them, co uid-°, O as without as with them. But the tcli itt( ( between the price of Labour and the pnc e Corn was a material cousiderat ion ; and he contend, that if these Resolutions did not dace the effect of raisin;:; the price of Coo' ' would be considered 'inoperative. • Let us e l () ; o r , ,tier what will he the effect on the price Of We are told in the Lords' lierort, by severa l :e c o nesses, that there is little or no relation, he t ,5• the price of Talhour and the price of Prov i ', o o to ( Here the Hon. Gentleman 'read some to o ) , from the Report, to this effect.) It was sO te Ffl s o me of the witnesses, that a hi z tli , ions invariably produc e d a l o w price of Li.' to w' Therefore it is evident that we are at temo ting crease the wealth of the rich and depre6s to A veety of the poor ; and we . are goin g on rc i f e s ',„ practically what can b e the miniiituni of o` , - of the poor could bear, anti what the u w.tiol! i : l s' wealth, that . could be gained by their snif` ll - 4 el Ile would defy any man to spew that s u it „ soiling is not literally true, and that re.s",: t iol t ' not he the effects of the measure in c onteall' o ric t . lu nets countries, where the agriculture i s r , ei • ing and progressive, the rate of the :' 0 1"; InallaketOrets may be so high as to heal' s live proportion to the price of provisi° ° o . ati e America the highest price of labour i 4 le. or" - k , neatly proportionate to the lowest'prict- 0 ,0 4 , visions. If then, in reg a rd to 11.10:10fil ( • you increase the price of proYisiOnS. , ) ;efO rt i: a, serious injury:to labour. What, t he vol e is the situation of the labourer? t sixtecu hours instead of ten, in order (0 . Pl a ticr o the common necessaries of life ; and the I P . '„,a that he must work himself o ut o f health, the workhouse ! This established order