The Sun. — London, England, 1842-03-10 00:00:00

1 , 0 1°4 had already been protracted to a great length, he was anx -13114; basin avoid going over ground which had been already gone over. rated ae fact of the diminution of the stock in handatharvest material, be tamest upou very high authority, anti was very ta m e s t tf .the trade were left to itself, and were not, through the te rt tal 'ons of a sliding scale, turned into a gambling and un out of ti le atnin 'Peculation, that drove all sober and steady men spa ttaa-t a stet , and left it in the hands of a few adventurous enee was th,, (4 ' l ; if this were not dune, and if the cons t 'it/ ableconsidera reserve of corn was habitually in eg t u he ha . nd o s . frotil:l7lers, hat e year there should a e s e t i o r e c k am I, : ) tat l ,. !"e months on ' handbefore us-under the Fati i „' It "as obvicus how trifling the effect wouldl:e in coin ,ett.",ta the deficiency that now generally occurred at har har,e;e? Under these circumstances a deficiency t- in the tile c .`' equal to a fortnight's supply, or one twe i n en ysixth of ota!).'li, would belt`arcey felt but now a defic _ e ct ad to v t e h r i y s hi g h eltent wass a very severe grievance. H the authority for thin statement. He could show w_h m at m w . a t ! tee :authority or the existing law, on the authority of aCo 1 not drk,„'' the Ilouse - and of a Report, certainly hit t ,' OP by an ' advocate of a change in the . Cor h n- S er'r et " of the Right Honourable 3' 4 1 , Ort ar Y °f Bta e for the Home I Department. aronet 33 oppos I t n e, the te he (Lord tio v ,_ 4 ,f the Agi icultural Committee of al,it'o,) found the fol: owing very remarkable passage, to toiai,le entreated the attention of the House '..-" The di -Irool,lted annual groxth of wheat was apparent_ r from the hale h ° f stock in hand, and the evidence of Mr. Jacob was NA itriking than important, since his . genpra m l . er v s i . e , w , s a e het,: n e ed by the local experience of occupying fa R t i g h t l ilt the Committee had adopted and sanctio r v ne_d en , e a e n o d T .. t . h h , i r e s ukoh . t'll. Baronet also gave his sanction tnthe . e en id ee was t ve ll r t y los g b But what did Mr. Jacob say ? His evict purport of it. It it; ' lt he (Lord Howick) would state the.. al l ' that before the Act of 1815, and a short ti p m t n e r e p fter it, it Itsnet:thabitual state of things in this countr th b after it, it ate of things in this country thit between the ttioan y 7 1 d the traders at the time of the ' there was sdo,,,ll,4lonths supply before-hand on hand, but that since ?ti t reu the present system which made trade so uncertain, I lan i tl ' at ii since 1 829, we had seldom two mon T th h s is c w on a s s um A r . Jit t i:, the country at the time 14ett' i s evidence sanctioned by a Co a m h m ar it y t e e s e t . .of the House, and tall'a'ned to the' House why the reduction of duty when compensationto the tsalsrarase, while pretended to be It 'd (Ur ! c at the high duties of other a nugatory e talia t , tinve character considered as a compensation to the Ndeti mid, The evidence of the present . year confirmed the tioqs,c'the tread and the argument he wished to impress on the , 41, dt e tb'n Autum n of this year the House was pe e r o h r a n ps w n a o s t s'lhtfa.-p,14. niany_parts of England the price of 'SI, i u igh• He had certain authority for stating . the of the -e'llallY paid for corn for immediate consumption . in some _at market of the North of England immediately before the 'at' harvest Th e l t orth of L ot ._ ~ ast flame:, i late but it was decidedly a . England was the ''. excessively late harvest.. : 4 gi• ..' a4 d so limited was the stock in hand, that i T t h w e a i s i s o v n a s h e ` 41, 1 er"t difficulty that the demands were the . state of the a 'ket °ll4 , but a very inadequate idea at that 'I looking at the averages in ef the Gazette, Gazette, for the. aaa t k e t t i na , : there was a very bad description of co rn asin L or i oth er .ral c onsequently the prices were not. so . high a height oih . vlise would be. However the cor H n . ) di h d ad ris a e m to e. - Nod te n was truly frightful. He (L . ord P'tiad ,4411.411ished to him of the prices . of cornatt t h h a e t mu st and he had not the slightest hesitation in placing he had ob ,ttitedl4lllicit reliance on the authority from whom m market in tatkot.that m emorandum. In Richmond . a bushel, e)s.ll,e' theprice of wheat was 12s. 'le - quarter hi Darlington and Newcastle-on-Tyne, lath w ls 84s tt, sp es ,,, • a quarter. However, he ~..4 lai n •Ise date those prices were obtained, but i i t n w re a r s m a e b d ou a t s ‘` k etuk e tit tle as he had already alluded to, l a o n r d us i e t d sh fo o r ul s d ee b d e , 1 1. i th zed that these were not fancy . parce a s i ' d for wheat. In - iests ft: aecounted for the high prices ' l e ' le eS to which he alluded, the wheat was b n ou su g m ht p b ti o o n n a . qe kj the trdller for immediate grinding and c 4,. I Ps' from far Ili a , t ` arth umberi rners who ownresided r in ose his the t , o. o a , 4 ,,, and, the wheat re n to n o . igoh ab be ou ur t hee tha d ; 'l42pt. one Orland , price, ing classes w.. l Ybread by an t d he tha l t ab it n s u v r as . so high, that the li' kl4 ' 44°s sibe. It was totally h i e mpos i s e ib e l s e a t t ha w t h t io h h e ti ,Zat 't,kan could have bread at I t p‘' Pe mt as then sold in Northumber and and Durham, and ;uf ,0,4 -as that the labouring elassa were driven to the ~.tileii. support barley, and other articles of . that desci iption, \ ,.'', t of th: He adverted to those things to show time th 4, that sitcling scale, and he might add, th.t at that tim n the people ; when 44i5e t'Severe Pre'sure was - up tle North of England tole ather epa,..ii:selwere experienced In s e s i t t h att two mi i i lLe n c s o o ti f n y, that in there was a qua k nt?ty v o e f quarters tr of corn und d e s r w lo a Lie i.Z i e 3 , and which in some fine afte o r o war n Is, tbs,tht out. lock su i ff n ered He contended, d fr t om a looking corn at . ,i4lttteri...if there was a moderate f u y tt:okralui!npossible that degree of embarrassment could occur , , would be a guarantee , a Is oi toi t , t 'ao of trade, if left to _ . exist. In Iwo, or f t ,.4, P„i i Y a that no such danger could to offer a bounty for it,, ttleorlituent thought it. "ee Trri t it the power of Perim .- - „,,, but Re did not wish to 04,,'ent,''ould any Gentleman have said, that because Pal `Nay'Ner Fittextraonary circums!anx e considered this ittati4,,:t ,would be se for the legisl t a I to s. pass a perma too," hou tit " say that when wheat rose .o o uld premium to 20 be a there should tt Y Pe e l nn exportation. an 11 4 °, 41 , atnr and dealer in co Th rn a to t run w the prices up to that th 4 th, d, if they came near, to that,. to hold bac .t k n t o h t e e s x u a p s p tl ly the et.lsl!'avag.tnt prices were attained. Was i lti t eff e 4 ce'ng with respect to the fall of the duties? Was not p,,,1 it the loss destroyed by providing for it beforehand? of the Act of tarnelietot true that it sto...d as part certainhave price the was to , if ' 14 44 1 . L t hat the duty at a lie raiyinot'"ed, and did not that with trade. * a :ant,?, the prices up and interfering shifting scale, as . it lt i ; 4114'41, therefore, that under the price kliP l tog - ,, ' ,' h. t he remission of duties at . it W as d ` s 11 ugatory as a means of particular r e e r he n a f o t t o b t e h e e an c s o e n l s .t um pr e e r . , deed th emY injuriou s to the farm . P Year from obtaining. as high a price its he would have in t t aif ti i '' hut it was most injurious to him in this way, that in t t 'll o t N hiroYerars it kept the trader out . of the market, and pre ftitti4uße i i , ,s.Olll stepping in to the relief of the British grower, Mi ng Year s n e w that, in the event of a deficient supply in thefttl in t ' Mach larger profit was to be_obt e ained by ets t ,, rel gll than in British wheat. H b e to this fact : in geed to call the Itrt,„ thrnittb9°nging to the landed interest ih st r g, rot :a ef 1 836, it was proved by the testimony of tC, fay, " ine chants, men opposed to the Corn-laws, and t i , i tlo g ,1411ble to it. It was proved by . them that, under the N. r 'tern, there was a tendency in hat fair t • • ta, ;NH 0 investigate their capital in fopreetisgen ns th t a r n ad ß in r g itis i h n t, 'hoeh ear.) Ile contended, therefore, that th . e re it h ° f din 14iit, -riti sh Y, as prices rose was extremely prejudicial ..4 joer grower, and in the same . manner he contended, k o, tat ker ease of the duties as the prices rose, er was useless to It did not tl io l l th, f and deeply injurious to the . tita tti At tr t 'er from low prices, and if ee h n e sn w m as to io t : l ,att e ,°.n. Baronet himself said that it was possiblenn.oottmistaken, He had ac kli"edglees to the farmer in cheap y a s ll ila t }:that the farmer must be prepar e ed r _for low prices in 4 , ally t ,, tv hen there was a succession of good harvests ; would be v Ol 'e ' t hes ' , -4 etions we could place upon foreign c th at cahter-rintatory as far as affording protection t o o rn the farmer th. i espeeted. But the restrictions were not nurgatorv nugatory i i n n t ttlt vin tth , and happil y they ll Mhrore. and of that reso w ur e c r p e , because they pre the4ltit .41'Inns being made beforehand to meet an an exigency to ti t t le kr,, t i 'ed, by limiting our supply on those teti rh o ,. tharkets, and by depriving us of occasions s urs te e vtit°4lthee (hstatit regions of the globe, because e f n ro t m he r ha o r se . fees *r ec tli whieh was sent to this country, h The '%'*hieit,auhndant, would become a perfect w drug. thc kid load occurred in the corn trade, between t H he ow ye e a b r; 11,4Rht I "''' , had had an effect which he Lord 1 144°t ‘id 4 "t speedily be forgotten by the ( . dealersin_ o c r er s n e . at f ''tis h : "t Pres 3 further on the House his reasons_ f: t tt4tNrett eutertained, and which he had thoughexpres.ed, wtende hOt t i t he s °!4ewhat imperfectly, to the House. did ' 4 ot t alll ti'm in duty was a very much gre H at e er ee pra w c:i . cal t o apt iotethe consumer than even a very heavy duty, 111 h la; St iftlere with the regular operations ; and he would Iteril' deg t'teY adopted a fixed duty, whether o w f 5s or Bs., or an, oy,„, .tactieally liable to the objectiop r s .or h e i m c . h _ u h t e y, had d but ki t ni, itat was to say, it was not an ad al that when the 4tioh.as 60earne heavier as the price rose ; so tat etas S ': 4N the harvest was plentiful, the duty was ' ' , 4' till ) ,1 M hen the price reached 70s. and the harv o e u s l t d w a a e s t 11,,,, atoi.4(3' was little felt. He thought the House i lk t l' i tter, ii,l. 'tore for the benefit of the agriculturist tb w e a y nd the would s hied ot,er,a Nvhatever duty they imposed on corn o , w . ,Ili rtr,, e dth ot g . ,e of whatever be trice h . or be it f l 0 , and he p i to thud *sal 'wl, the p, instead o adopting the lelio-s' t o cs! wh ich the Right . Hon. Baronet had proposed. He Oft 1, 44, 1 0 'ss the great regret that he felt that the enactmentresent ete,a'Y fße.arliament should pass over without the ku l‘ r '''' f' t4 u 'ee:lt measure because the more he considered the t ' i, ' ,, :f 4t ) ° ,':til °lf.....the country, the more he was convinced of the n ,l, iot e pti llt,i '",e, and that delay in settling this question n 11,1 Ink, r , 149 a was pregnant with al o e greatest danger to th e ull, Nd e f e t : t °f . the country. Amono no h many reasons delay should trzm , It expedient that , id 4,-, tressttio take place, he would i advert first to i din the country. , Il) 'es of I l ity of ,_ which at present i ll 'Rt eti ,h,e ti t, tiat distress had be p e r n ev :dv e erte a d to on both th ',daCitt ti ti l e • They all agreed that it e isted. They d i''' a L'lllk t e t ,P ' Qr it'' it and he believed they all also agree t‘iiiiinAtlitmeffetrtflibe-iiefarnPdattrtb;t'paltvieitnheew, hich the people bad borne 4' 41 4 1 2 'hat h..''' In at House. if , possible, added a stroner The Right Hon. Baronet d tit l'ea'nded witlaliti not propose the . measure . which he had it I aiat. a° not expectation of its relieving the distress to ' Bt in t• thlt Nll Oll, LI • • tii kt , tli kt ,:ir lek m..inediat.e relief.. sktie`she ,it:tisst!,si`---arolstnemfediatethereloefr,wr.adwsh, 1 and he beerleieevnerd e did not believe ' t lte t r e diat r t es 3 in the lj'onirn_laws would prevetil vt,,,iiieteiai t 'Rutri: . lie ( Lord Howick) did not wish to over tr•le'Neri4_, if heats on this question, and• he should n be lt as w h a a s m h e i d s i to:tletettuhty tott2ed the slightest exaggeration . th e a' is the'l'and h e he he so far agreed with tle th m e . ea ß s i w g r h e t w l h lo ie n b . i tr , iin t , t,,, greatly doubted whether any id operate to Itreed .Mtst,'",,wer of the House to adopt wou also ka„ll,„..strsh thi,s; i 4 n r ,, e tot! the distress which now exists. He ); ar h eertain6 iiat with respeet to the distress.Com a4t h e Woo l 9 ot the only perhaps not the principal cause. p t ,Te t a f t e t o k i :lst .. u .. 1 atit, T i n ceco ncu ' r - withth a e n ß d i t g e h m t p H er o , n. Bar . onet._ that it did il l , rot, th e th at ~ the same spirit w• th exiit cause lite distress which s . sas now_ felt arose in 4 0 4 of loftt 4 4 e,,, j,, laird must also say. LI had been considerably aggravated by t4Pt ,:neasur,s'_a,,,( Hear, hear.) ty %b ' : "011 t he 'n, ch it was in the poy‘ H er e of the House to ry e ho at% lte recurrence of that distress, and promote n" 41 1 „. 41 ,ean , 41 : Pio peritv of which the Right Hon, Baronet i f: t.t1 :1 1 o 1 "j i it i e t h i ; tteitlrouse t row pr d om ml o o t p e t that bhealpepy return of all It i tle e r li-,..(chee effimcious as a wastecomplee reform t f the r ved there were foelt I. l ° 'N il ., 1 "S . )He thought this iarle ?n• lt a ''' has, admissions which had been made of 1,01:4 thsol,:n• iTenestailiiii_. self and . others on the same side s ti • t , adit t i utto _. it Was an inference fairlto be drawn tq, It s „ its n e ,li str _ . es, because, if he was not mis taken, the kti- N bacl hrts enumrated by the Hon. currency. Gentletnenoovp-__ al.ink tisn, and ~e,.ve'ts, an alteration in the over o . 4 . seh 4 '_,ese a„ 10, ' Production. He thought he was right in (44 11 , `" bee t , R the causes which on the other side of the tri hOt tawiek,assigned f d tress which now exited. He rWa i i uteri utott,.? adinnted that: llisth three causes had eon i4ll,Us.ibi;':!lly to this dis a tress. ese A s to bad harvests, it . rUilist„ it:lni.ta tiltela_t:hey should fail to produce . more arise in I n es ; ‘, 1 . 4 tot fi , 4 tri an d . 4 °P•e• That suffering did not a i rls t „, 'th th"ehi g h e u e! , arly traceable in a country w iich had le - , 41 1 . 41 . ic r0 e s ever a l s e t i P s ' s lah of w ealth and civilisation, and b ibs civii, as i ei or th Community had become greatly 411 s tha t there But le 4 " e n a r nder or edict. state of . andsociety,. a. - 'pit ' h -Pi ia i t re „ nett be at the ssme . timp n , it was impos biejittiai 3 , 41:1 -- , . it , ilit ion ereapindyier,riinutionag the labour in agriculture, with -I,,lnNtilbe(bs,.,l 011 "a_1.0 an increased amtoint of sacrifice lith,„ l ter „ e _ (1 .. 1,6 4 , the people.-( Hear.) There was a r ) w,„" 5 .1 0 , ,rt aiMorigst them, and, souse way or other, tikede t d. I t ' '''.ii he roade to olea n the supplies which itr,tessd t ,41. 1 if the krgument vs hiai he (Lord Howiek) 4 'le th a t k ' ( ' *a s tr _e Haase upon the effect of the Corn-law .g;;,,,,,,.. 11,, , tle,if there was the slightest truth in it, it was t w a ith r4,ial Ly I ell "13-1 A . caused by a hart harvest was greatly ,„ 4 %' , 4, 11. .4 i t , the "'sting Corn-lws. In the same manner i s ‘ 'h' a s,ml'4l'ss, ~."ThreneY ; if the alteration s in it were one I Per ati, rl 4t e of th"'"io deulit they were, surely that distress by '!''t -' nf tra-, ern -laws as interfered materially with the l 'ti 4 i, 'a ee,,, trade enuat have been increas d. 1 hey were tl * treat • is inside the ptitt .. , difficulty and danger to the. Bank of au*, andc!pat re-ia. t b. Tor of the currency. Now came 1 aPPea-cd to him that in if i melt of he 'I late debates on the subject there had been most stress laid on this cause by Gentlemen on the opposite side of the House. He referred to over-speculation and over-production. He pre sumed when Hon. Gentlemen at the other side talked of over speculation and over-production that all they meant to say was there had been over-production in a particular branch of our trade or manufactures. It certainly never would be contended that we Suffered distress because generally the country had been too industrious—because too much labour and capital had been practically employed—that because there had been too great an amount of all commodities required, therefore distress arese.! In short, that distress was the consequence of our being too rich. That was a contradiction in terms which he (Lord Howick) did :the Right Hon. Baronet justice in saying never had been his intention to make use of, and therefore he ( Lord H.) was putting the right interpreta tion upon the Right Hon. Baronet's argument, when he said that the Right Hon. Gentleman, in speaking of oven:produe don and over-speculation, meant that there had been a mis • direction of the productive energies of the country. The I Right Hon. Paronet might correct him (Lord H.) if he was wrong ; but he thought he was right in saying that such must be the meaning of the Right Hon. Gentleman. If that was the Right Hon. Baronet's argument, he would no doubt concur with him that over-production was the cause of the existing distress, as it produced a reaction in some branch of our manu facture by the misdirection of capital and labour. But if it was true, as it undoubtedly was, that this was one cause of our distress, the best cure, and, in deed, the only one in the power of the House to apply, was to remove those restrictions, in the first place, upon the trade in corn, which forced the capital and industry out of their natural, and as their natural, their most productive channels. If misdirections and mistakes 'a the employmentof capital and labour were the causes of the distress, he would say,. guard against it in future by abrogating those bad laws whleh—pre vented trade from falling into its natural channels, and which prevented the industry and capital of the country from being applied in the manner which would be most productive. This, he would say was the legitimate inference to be drawn fr, m the statement and from the argument of the Right Hon. Ba ronet. But on this point there was another observation to which it recurred to him very material to call the attention of the House. He had aired) , admitted that there had been, as the Right Honourable Baronet had argued, some over speculat:on, over-production, and misdirection in their productive powers. But he wished to ask any gen tleman acquainted with the actual state of the nation, whether that misdirection and error was riot in a great measure accounted for by the great difficulty ex isting at this moment in finding any profitable fields for the employment of labour and capital. Was it not notorious that in every branch of trade there was the most intense competition, almost every employment was overstocked, and throughout the whole circle of industry, every occupation, either for the em ployment of capital or labour was occupied, and they found a race of the severest kind, both between capitalist and labourers going on. How was it shown ? It was shown most strikingly by the extraordinary tide of emigration that had been vetting out from this country during the last few years. This ten dency to emigration proved the existence of that state of thing., a difficulty in finding fields for the employment of both capital and labour. He did not find fault with emigration; he thought that every encourgement that could consistently be given, ought to be extended to it, but he thought the extent of it did prove what he had adverted - to ; and it was an emigration not confined to labour alone, but consisting both of labour and capital. It was very instructive to observe what took place when an extensive emigration occurred. Let them look at their newest colony—that of New Zealand. A great amount of capital, and a large number of labourers, had proceeded to that colonja; and it was a fair inference to sup pose that, in consequence of the over-crowded state of this country, they had found it impossible to obtain any profitable means of employment at home. When they went to New Zealand part found employment is raising food for the whole, and the others, in .various ways, in providin g for their wants. lhe consequence was that want of employment was no longer heard of, and the only complaint was, that they wanted more capitalists and .more labourers. Now, what was the cause of all this activity, but the increased means given them of procuring food ?—( Hear, hear..) For it was not agricultural labourers alone that were employed and sought after; but carpenters, masons, and the makers of and deale r s in a r ti c l es o f clothing.—(Hear, hear . ) Did it not, therefore, deserve the consideration of the, House whether it would not answer their purpose just as well—instead of forcing the manufacturers of this country to go to CatiaAa, Australia, New Zealand, or else where, to engage in agricultural pursuits which they did not understand—to alloW 'them to stay at home and continue employed in the irides to which they were brought up, exchanging the proficts of their labour and irgenuity for food wherever it could be found ?—( Hear, hear.) Would any man tell him, that in a short time supplies would not be offered in exchange for the manufactures of this country from every corner of Europe, if only • we would give them a rea'onable as surance of a steady market?—.(Hear, hear.) This would not have the effect of displeasing a single man now employed in agriculture, in any department, as iandlord, farmer, or labourer. —( Hear.) The landoWner would participate directly in the general advantage resulting to the country.—( Hear, hear. ) Those producers being enabled to remain at home, their con sumption of meat would'be a benefit to the landlords, and their comsumption of excisable articles would go to increase the re venue of the United Kingdom. Having concluded what he had to say in favour of such'a change as would promote the general interests of the community, be would beg to address a few words, and they would be only a very few, to the owners and occupiers of land, as one having a common interest with them, an interest to which'. he assured them he was not philo sophical enough to be by any means indifferent, for though they might, perhaps, think so, he assured them that he had no desire to see the ruin of himself, and al all who were con nected with him.—(A laugh.) As having a common interest with them he was anxious to address a few words to the owners and occupiers of land, and to point out to them the extreme, the overwhelming importance to them of an early and satisfae tory settlement of this question. In the first place he would ask them whether it was not perfectly clear that the Bill which was then about to pass was but the precursor of further altera tions?—( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet, the Mem ber for Pembroke, hadgone out of his way to disclaim its being a final measure ; lie had told them as plainly as a gentleman in his situation could tell them that it was merely introductory to a further alteration. The same inference might be drawn from the whole conduct of the Government. The agricultural party had , been completely triumphant at the late elections the Government was one in which, as they were told by the Honourable Member for Devon, that party bad the greatest confidence, and it was err tainly the most powerful Government -which had existed for many years ; yet, with all these advantages, they had actually, before they were attacked, struck the flag which thay had so long nailed to the mast in favour of the existing Corn-laws. Why had they made that surrender ? Obviously because they felt that public opinion had been pronounced so decided y against the existing C6t-n-laws, that it was impossible to main tain them. The Hon. and Gallant Member for Middlesex had candidly told thern . that was the case; and there was a statement in the introductory speech of the Right Hon. Ba ronet ( Sir R. Peel) which amounted to the same thing. The Right Hon: Baronet told them that the communications which he had had with the agricultural interest convinced him that they were generally satisfied of the necessity for a change in the Corn-laws. But could the change which they were about to make be satisfactoi-y to the agrieu'turists themselves?— ( Hear, hear.) Would it be satisfactory to any one class of per sons in the country?—( Hear, hear.) Was it founded upon principles so just in themselves, so consistent with truth and sound reason, that the-practical working of the measure was likely to be beneficial to the country ? He contended that it was not. He contended that a continuance of the same policy heretofoi e adopted would be attended with the same disappointment ; and in a few years' time they would have the Riht Hon. Baronet, if he then happened to be at the head of the Government, again coming forward and _saying, " These Corn-laws cannot be maintained; 1 find that, though I have a majority in the House of Commoni and in the House of Lords, common sense, • and reason and experience, are too strong for me ; the law has practically worked ill, and it must be altered." Such was the language which the Right Hon. Baronet must employ, but it was not wise to delay the settlement of such a question, be cause the longer the compromise was withheld, the worse would be the terms they could obtain. —( Hear.) Hon. Gentlemen opposite say that even a fixed duty would not now give satis faction. He (Lord Howick) admitted it; he admitted there were a large number Whom it would not satisfy; but his belief was, that if a sufficiently moderate duty were imposed, all agi tation would subside, 'anil the country would .acquiesce. But if such a state of things was to continue, and if the battle was to be fought as heretofore, and if the practical working of the Corn-law was to be - what he anticipated it would under the measure now before the House, he was persuaded the country would not acquiesce.—( Hear, hear.) By deferring a final settlement of the question, they saw already how much worse were the terms now than what they might have been a short time ago. —( Heir, hear.) In the year 1828 there were few Gentlemen, he apprehended, in that House, or in the country, who would have objected to grant to the agriculturists a fixed duty of considerable amount.--( Hear, hear. )• When he voted formerly for a moderate fixed duty he found himself in a considerable minority, and believed that at that time the country would be perfectly satisfied with a fixed duty as high as 20s. ,or at least as high as 15s. But what was the state of things now ? Only three or four months ago, a proposition of an Bs. fixed duty was -made, but that duty would not now answer.—( Hear.) He believed they should now fall to a 55. duty to satisfy the people ; and every day they deferred putting off the settlement of the question, every day would the terms become worse ; and he believed that the interval during which they could obtain terms at all was now very short.—( Hear, Leaf.) In his opinion that was not very material, for although he was in favour of a fixed duty for the sake of the owners or land, he was only so that the first dis turbance of agriculture may be avoided. He had no fears ulti mately for the agriculturists.—( Hear.) Hg was not afraid that the British farmer was inferior to the Continental farmer , In skill, industry, or "the possession of capital—that he was so inferior as not to be able to enter with the farmer of the Conti- nent in the race , of competition ; and he believed this the more especially because he' saw the manufacturers of England was not afraid to contend with his continental competitor. He believed the Englishman could 'compete as suc cessfully with the 'foreigner in agricultural as in any other branches of manufactures or trade.—(Loud Cheers.) That opinion he knew prevailed very extensively amongst the better informed of those engaged in the cultivation of land in the country which he (Lord Howick) lately represented. He (Lord Howick) had tertainlybeen defeated at the last election, but he was able to say from what he had seen during that elec tion that the opinion of the best agriculturists in that country was strongly in favour of some further change. All the better farmers were in favoilt even of a greater change than that A hich had been proposed lase year. It was notorious that in Scotland and the North of England, where the land was the best culti vated, the farmers were in favour of a great change in those laws. Devonshire was no exception to the rule, unless the county had been greatly changed since he (Lord H.) had last had tne pleasure of Visiting it. It was only in those parts of the country where a barbarous and neglected system of avicul ture prevailed---( Cheers and laughter) —that any apprehensions were entertained of the results of a change in these laws. But the fear of obtaining worse terms hereafter, was one of the least arguments which he would address to the House when urging them not to lose time in settling this question.—( Hear, hear.) He would urge them to consider the effect which must be produced upon agriculture while the question continues undecided; how could they hope that any improvement could take place in agriculture under such cir cumstances ? No plan could be adopted more effectual for delaying every species of agricultural improvement, and for the accomplishment of its ultimate ruin, so effectual as the keeping the laws relating to -the importation of corn in a state of doubt and suspense. In spite of the majority by which he had no doubt that Bill wouldbe carried into a law, in spite of the arguments of those who gave this system of restriction their support, in spite of their assertions that no further alteration in the law w s intended, the public mind would not look upon this law as any thing hut a temporary measure. Nothing that 'they could do, no declarations that they might make, no maj(irity by which they might be sustained, could satisfy the public mind that that Bill would continue.—( Cheers.) But while further changes were I.anging over the head of the farmer, how could they possibly imagine that . the relation of landlord and tenant would e , •ntinue in a satisfactory state ? What farmer would venture to take a long lease whilst he dreaded what might be the future changes in the laws regulating the imp .rtation of corn? —(Hear, hear.) Who could venture to make any permanent improvements in his lands is such a state of uncertainty? and when he spoke of permanent improvements, he con sidered it an important point to consider in what had tended man manner the presosit state ograntinglelaasteva. h to discourage the system of granting who had any experience oithe system pursued in the country knew that the practice of granting leases of land had materially declined since 1815. Land was row too frequently let from year to year, and leases were general in but comparatitively few districts. This was a change which he considered most injurious. Those valuable papers published in the useful journals of the Agricultural Society of Englard, and the High land Society of Scotland, which appeared in them a few years ago, describing the great improvements that had taken place in the course of half a century, in Scotland, Northumberland,- nd the North of England traced the superiority, as he believed cor rectly, to the practice of granting leases in those parts. How indeed was it possible that could be improved by the oc cupiers, unless those who laboured had the stimulus of their own interest to actuate and encourage their enterprise and energy and capital by having security for their reward in leases from their landlords ?—( Hear, hear.) He appealed to those who were in the habit of travelling about the country, whether they could not, by the state of agriculture in particu hr districts, distinguish those where the practice of granting leases was common from those where it was not.?—( Hear.) He now would say, as one interested in lan,l, it was of most essential advantage that they should come to a speedy settle ment of the law on the importation of foreign corn, for this question' should no longer be left in doubt and agitation. He felt that he had perhaps exceeded the limits of the observations which he has intoned to address to the House.-.--( Hear, hear,) He meant to add one or two other points which he should not now touch upon. He would therefore conclude by simply en treating lion. Gentlemen opposite, more especially those inte rested in land, to believe him when he asserted most unfeign edly, that in advocating his present views he was actuated by no motive whatever except a desire to promote what he be lieved was the best interest of the land, and of every other department in this kingdom.—( Hear, hear, hear.) In corroboration of this assertion, and to show that he was actuated by no party motive, he need only refer to his conduct, since he had had the honour of a seat in Parlia ment. When he first came into the House, the Oa-it-law question took up much of their time, and was a great topic of deba'e amongst them. In 1827 and 1828 Hon. Gentlemen would recollect that measures were proposed by the Govern ment of the Duke of Wellington and the Earl of Liverpool; that both those measures passed, and that one of them was now the law of the land. In one of those years he thought they wen in a minority of only 16, and in the other year of 26. These were the small minorities by which the principle was then sup ported ; from that time to the present, in office and out of office, he had invariably supported the same policy. He had invariably, both by his votes and his arguments, supported the policy of giving greater freedom to the trade in corn, and ;of abolishing those restrictions which were imposed byan existing law. So much for the motives which had actuated him. Now he only had to say, with reference to the vote which he was this evening about to give, that if he conceived that, by the vote which he was ping to give in favour of the amendment of his Noble Friend, he should be understood as voting in favour of the existing Corn-laws, in preference to the plan which had been proposed by her Majesty's Government, most undoubtedly. he should not vote for the amendment Report of the Inspector of Factories in Lancashire (Mr. Hor ner). This document, he believed, had been referred to the Right Hon. Baronet opposite (Sir James Graham), but un luckily before the document was published. He (Mr. C. Buller) must say that great credit was due to Mr. Horner for having taken the trouble of this examination in towns and dis tricts, which it was his duty to inspect, and which had thrown so much light on the state of the factories, and showed what really was the state t f employment in the manufacturing coun tiesdrawn from the reading of that d ocument appeared to him ; and he (Mr. C. Buller) must say that the conclusion per fectly appalling, when they considered it with re.fe• rence to the condition of the people. In the first place he (Mr. Horner) had put the distress of the manufacturing districts in a very clear and statistical light. He had given three different factories. He had calculated the power in each manufactory, and he calculated the amount of persons the fac tory could employ if in full work, and he gave the result in one table. In &nether table he gave the actual result. He showed what amount of power was worked, and what amount of human labour was employed; Mr. liorner's district only compre hended . Lanc shire, and his remarks applied not to the cotton trade merely—it. applied to all trades more or less. It applied to silks less than to cotton, but it applied to woollens and flax more than to cotton. rile amount of persona who con d be employed, and were not employed was not less than 29,800 ; who were working short time, and consequently diminished wages, was not less than 32,000. Now taking the two, those working on sho r t emp l oyment , an d t h ose Not employed at all, and putting them together, the people who were -suffering from distress in the manufacturing districts, could not rate at less than 61,00. Now the whole employ ment of the people in the manufacturing districts was about 233,000 persons, so that nearly one-third of the manufacturing population was out of employment. Now he was aware that there was one objection to be raised to this. He was aware that the employment of steam power had partly caused this want of employment (as we understood.) The Right Hon. Baronet had stated that, since the year 1839, not less than ninety-one new ccotton m lit alone had been established. He (Mr. C. Buller) was aware that when the Right Hon. Baronet alluded to that document it hail not been made public, but he believed that he (the Right Hon. Baronet did not intend to deal unfairly with that House. The Right Hon. Baronet had mentioned 2l mills, which em ployed 3,350 horse-power. He (Mr.. C. Buller) thought it was proper to mention that 3,350 fresh horse-power called into existence caused 6,783 persons to be thrown out of employ ment. Was it not appalling to that House and to the country, that nearly 50,000 persons were totally desetute of employ ment, and taking those that were working short time no less than 32,000 ? Was this not horrible ? He must say that this Report of Mr. Horner was a most valuable one, and but for that document he should not have been able to go into this subject. But it was not necessary for him to dwelt on the sub ject, to harrow up the feelings of that House by a description of the details of the distress which existed, and which he (Mr. C. Buller) alto 'bitted principally to theresent Corn-laws. Mr. Horner stated that the principal way in which dis tress was caused, was by the sub-tuition of machinery for manual labour; if that was the ease, the consideration was terrible, because it was manifest if that was the principal cause it was not a temporary distress. He would not abandon his opinions for the sake of his argument, and he should say that he believed that improvements in machinery would be of ser vice to the country in the long run, but then it should be with free trade.—(Hear, and cheers from the Opposition.) No doubt improvements in machinery would tend to the benefit of the country, but if the application of that machinery caused such general distress, come what prosperous times there might, so much injury had been done to the m inufacturing Teeple who had been thrown out t f employment by those improvements in machinery, and by the application of that machinery—many of those persons who had been working at high wages were new, in consequence of the increased power of machinery, working at extremely low wages--so low that they were called " Cy phers" by their fellow labourers. By Mr. Horner's Statistical Reports it appeared where machinery was employed in various manufacturing towns that one man was now doing the work which it required four men to do some few years ago. In Manchester the work which formerly required upwards of a hundred men to do, was now done by thirty-three men. In one instance, which Mr. Horner stated, it appeared that by the improvement in machinery the labourers, in a particular establishment which he named, were reduced from 530 to 258 men ! It was quite true that some of those workmen who were retained had increased wages; but, in that particular establishmen to which Mr. Horner alluded, there were 72 men thrown out of employment; and what comparative advantage could there be from the increase of wages given to one or two persons, while such a vast nnmbes as 72 out of 300 men were thrown out of employment.—( Hear.) He did not dwell upon those facts merely because they were statistical returns, but be cause it appeared to him that the change which was being csu ed by the increase of machinery was a fatal change.— ( Hear.) He would not say that the increase of machinery was a fatal change in a sound state of trade ; but he said that it was fatal if the people of the country did not get employment.— (Cheers.) One very bad effect of substituting machinery for manual labour, was the tendency to create an ever-supply. It was said that it was more advisable to work by machinery for some time even at a lass, than to let the progress of machinery stand. In Lancashire the manufacturers found it better to work their mills even at a loss, than not work them at all by machinery; and Sir Horner said that the use of cotton in these manufactures had gone on increasing to such an ex tent th .t the manufacturers were enabled to pay themselves by increasing the quantity of goods in th e mar k e t. [Sir R. Peel here made some observations across the table. l'he Right Hon. Baronet asked what had the statements he (Mr. Buller) was then making to do with the Corn-laws ? (" Hear, hear," forom the Ministerial benches. )]—Undoubt edly they had everything to do with the distress which prevailed in the country. He did riot pretend to say that the Corn laws caused all that distress ; he did r ot, mean to say there were not other Causes for it; but he thought there was a fatal tendency in the state of society if the employment of capital ,vas not attended with remuneration. Then, he asked, were the Legislature wis e i n increasing the d:ffieulties of trade, and diminising the profits of the manufacturers of the country ? The Right lion. Baronet said very distinctly that his object in introducing that Bill was not to diminish the price of corn for the manufacturer ; but the Right Honourable Baronet said his object was to keep up the price of corn between 545. to 583. a quarter ( Hear, hear) —he should, on the contrary, support the measure proposed by her Majesty's Govern ment, because, as he had already said, he considered it a mitigation, and an important mitigation, of the restriction now in force on the trade in corn. Rut he conceived that the House, by its . proceedings, had already pledged itself to make some Change in the law, and he, therefore, believed that the effect of the vote he was about to give would merely he to de clare that the principle on which her Majesty's Government had proceeded to amend the existing law was not, in his (Lord Howick's) opinion, satisfactory. Ile by no means thought that the form in which this question had been brought to issue was on the whole by any means the best that could have been adopted. If tie (Lord H.) had had any voice in the matter he should have preferred that the House should have agreed, without a division, to the second reading of this Bill, and that in Committee an amendment should have been moved, embodying, as far as the rules of the House would admit, such clauses as should bring the Bill to that shape in which it ought to stand. He thought that would have been the best course. But as the proceedings had been drawn out to such a length, and that as there was now to be a discussion, it would be highly inexpedient that he should propose another plan and another division in this stage ; he wished to avoid giving this trouble, and exposing the public business to unnece,sary de lay.—( Hear hear.) As he was unavoidably absent in the preliminary discussion on the subject, and as this was the first opportunity which had been afforded him of expressing by speech, and recording by vote, the opinions he had so long entertained, he had no course but to vote for the amendment of his Noble Friend, and he had the consolation of knowing that the number of those who would follow the course of the Hon. Member for Wallingford was so small, that there would not be much danger of the mea sure being lost in consequence of an alliance of parties enter taining conflicting opinions. He could assure the Bight Hon. Baronet that if he saw the remotest danger of such a contin gency, ho should not be found in the minority.—( Hear, hear.) With this explanation, and thanking the House for the atten tion it had given him, he begged to conclude by stating it to be his intention to support the amendment of his Noble Friend. Mr. PACKINGTON supported the second reading of the Bill. He hopes that the discussion would not be further pro tracted; the House had already decided by an overwhelming majority that Br itish ag: ieulture was entitled to protection, and it had aTso decided that that protection should not be given by a fixed duty. For his own part, he was decidedly averse to a fixed duty. Mr. Hu-kisson was against it, Mr. Canning was' against it, and the arguments even of the Nobly Lord the Member for London were decidedly against it. After the t iumphant manner in which the argument that the manufacturers were ruined by the Corn-laws had been dis posed of by the Right Hon. Baronet, the First Lord of the Treasury, he would not presume to occupy the House by again going over the same ground, but he would just advert to the most important branch of our manufactures, and he would show that this had made the most rapid strides in prosperity during the operation of those most abused laws. In 1820, the declared value in the exports in cot on was 16,000,0001. ; in 1828, the tear when the laws were passed, it was 17,000,0110/., but, in 1839, it had reached to the extraordinary amount of 24,500,000/. Similar prosperity could be shown in other branches.—(Tory cheers.) The House had decided against the fixed duty, and that agriculture should have pro tection. The only question, therefore, was, what should be the rate of the sliding scale? For his part, he would give his decided support to the measure of the Go vernment, in which he placed the most unlimited coofid, nce. When the Government dealt with a subject of such magnitude, he thought it should be approached by all, and by its friends especially, with a spirit of conciliation. He supported it be cause he believed it calculated to promote the interests of all classes, and the Conservative party were content to accept it as a just and fair settlement of the question. The Conservative party, as a body, had not declared for a perfect adherence to the existing laws, though there might be individual instances of it. On the contrary, many of the warmest Conservatives had de clared their disapprobation of them. In alluding to the contro versy bet ween the manufacturers and the agriculturists, he ad mitted that the speech of the Hon. Member for Knaresborough was quite peculiar ; but whatever might be said of what he had told them, it seemed to have burst like .a rocket among Hon. Gentlemen opposite. If the sufferings he had detailed were true, they ought to rejoice in having them exposed. He did not refer to this speech for any recrimination, but the feelin g s and sentiments which h a d b een uttere d were totally unworthy of that House, and were not calculated to pi e mote the interest of either party. He thought the prosperity of the twe great parties were indissoluble. When manufactures flourished, agriculture would flourish ; and when agriculture p rosperous, was the manufacturers found their principal market. Su c h were his feelings, and he hoped that hereafter they would dispense with those discussions which were, in his opinion, unworthy of both. He thought the agri culturists would benefit by the change made in the mode of taking the averages. Under the whole system great scope was given to fraud. But while he confessed that the agricultarists would derive advantage from the change, he believed that the commercial interest and the consumer would derive benefit. The Noble Lord who had spoken last had complained of the great fluctuations under the old law. Undoubtedly those fluc tuations were great objections to the old law, but Hon. Gentle men must recollect that the fluctuations duririg the same period were less in England than in the other'cutlntries o! Europe. It was upon these grounds that he should give his humble but earnest support to the measure brought forward by liar Ma jesty's Government. But he could not sit down without con gratulating her Majesty's Government upon the triumphant mariner in which those measures had been introduced. They could not have forgotten the manner in which this question had originated. The House and the country could not have forgotten that this was not a question sought for by her Ma jesty's Government—( Loud laughter from the Opposition)— but it was a question brought forward by a hostile party, and for h stile parties the gauntlet was thrown down in May last by the Government of that day for the purpose of throwing discord amongst the l.eople, in the hope that the Government would, in a moment of passion and excitement, meet with that support which the calm judgment of the country had withheld from them. But the good sense of the people prevailed, and the consequence was that the miserable and inefficient Government became a feeble and contemptible Opposition. Mr. C. BULLER then rose to address the House, and ads vaneing to the table, pointed with his finger to the Ministerial benches, and said—" Do you talk of consistency ? You taunt us and the Gentlemen behind me for voting against this Bill on different grounds? You, who even maintain that inconsistency which you complain of in us? You, who get up to prove that the late Corn-law is best and ought to be retained ; who prove that when agricu'ture .s prosperous, manufactures will also be so, and then, for no earthly reason, except mere party pur poses, and for supporting inconsistency, you come forward and say, we will vote through thick and thin for this measure ?" (Loud cheers.) The Hon. Gentleman continued to say that he should vote against this Bill upon plain and straightforward Sir R. PEEL, in a very inaudible tone, 'nide some oble:va ! tions across the table • he was understood to diss en t f rom th e statement made by the H'3n. Gentleman opposite. Mr. C. BULLER wished the Right lion. Baronet would explain to the House what he really did say.—( Hear.) Sir R. PEEL--I wish you would state accurately what I did say.—(Hear, hear. ) Mr. C. ,BULLEtt—He did not take.down the Right Hon. Baronet's words, but he understood that his proposition was that the price of corn should be kept up between 54s and 58s. a quarter. It was not possible to mistake the Right Hon • Ba ronet, for he stated over and over again that his plan would have the effect or tendency of keeping corn at that price, and the Ri ;ht Hon. Baronet distinctly said that he bad brought in that Bill for the purpose of giving effect to his plan. The Right Hon. Baronet might object to the particular mode of stating the expressions he used, but he (Mr.C. Buller) would ask the Right Hon. Barisoet what was the avowed ob ject and IT anifest and unavoidab'e tendency of a sliding scale, ex cept to keep up corn always at a particular and fixed price.— ( Hear, hear, from Lord Stanley, and cheers from the Opplsi tine.) He (Mr. Buller) was glad that the Noble Lord (Stan ley), a member of her Majesty's Government, had cheered at that observation ; he was at liberty to believe from that that the Noble Lord concurred in it. — (Cheers.) How could it be just to secure to the farmer advantages which no other class of men possessed, namely, .high prices for their corn, under all variations of circumstances—(Hear, hear) — that advantage applied to sugar to coffee, to cotton, and every other article which could be raised from the earth. Certainly the agriculturists were to have all those ad vantages without counter-ballancing disadvantages. As long as laws were passed in favour of one particular class—as long as the Legislature, who are interested, state to the world that they would make a law in favour of th e agr i cultural i nterest, they held but to the whole world the spectacle of a Legislature making laws for their own a dvantage—(Cheers. ) He believed it would be admitted that he never willingly indulged in per sonalities—(Hear, hear)—he would be the last person to attri bute to Hon. Gentlemen opposite any sordid private motives in bringing forward the measure proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet, but he attributed that measure to those motives of interest, or to a bias which insensibly operated upon the minds of men wh.n their own immediate iuterests were concerned.' Yet he said that as long as the legislation of that House ap peared to be eairied on under the influence of that bias, so long will it give the people thoroughout the country reason to com plain of class legislation.—( Hear, hear.) There was one argu ment in favour of the present Corn-laws, which had been adverted to during the debate, to which he would allude before he sat down. That was the argument against a fixed duty, he though it more a lvisable to reply to th ose argumen t s b y statis tical returns than by general answers. The only thing of advantage to the consumer was, that the price of corn should be moderate. Now the proposed measure conferred B i ll the advantages on the foreigner. Just as fast as the prices of corn in this country are rained, so, according to the proposed mea sure, must they be likewise increased on the continent. 'they raise the price of corn upon the continent, and they have the advantage of the duty ; but what would ba the result if there was an Bs. fixed duty, then you would h .ve the corn without any loss to the consumer. Suppose the Bs. duty was esta blished last July, would not that be singly beneficial to the consumer, compared with the present sliding-scale? No doubt it would ; and he (11r. Buller) was prepared to plove from calculations he had made, that it would be a bencht, not only hear.)theto consumer, sm u thoughta r l b but t t o he t e l s te revenue calculationswere w England worth ! s , o. —c entering g r, into, and therefore he would trouble the House with a Cew of them ; at the same time he would not go into detail. The average price of co n, at the en4l of July last, was 688. 3d. a quarter. It was perfec ly plain that if there was an Bs. fixed duty in July last, that corn would be admitted here from grounds, such as any man would ;cite against a }Silt on the se cond reading, namely, that he did not think that the prin ciple was good. (Hear.) The Honourable Gentleman who had just sat down had complained almost, of every Member introducing subjects not calculated to benefit any interest, but only to excite angry feelings, and his only exception was the Hon. Member for Knaresborough.— ( Laughter and cheers.) He (Mr. C. Buller) did not intend, at that late period of the debate, to increase discussion, but at the same time he wished to call the attention of the House to Dantzic at 635. 31 a quarter, paying Bs. duty, It could not be brought from Dantzic unkss there was a certain quan tity required. Now, assuming that 2,030,000 quarters of corn were imported that would reducs the price by 4s. a quarter ; then, ussuming that carp was imported at 645. 3d. a quarter, the duty, would 23 7,3461. on the mentioned bore amount of the quantity sold would, he supposed, be 563,837 being .he had nh a da n d B s quarters; taking that at the difference Of price he had stated, ot ; he believed second.bt l e 'e l l 3,l3 i , n B r / h l .: t o n n s ci e u t (l h . :le e t n i fi t c y r e s t o o f f s c t c a h o l e e r i n r of prices the total amount of the corn consumed was nut less than 4,000,C00, whereas the consumption of the United Kingdom was a very small proportion to the quntity consumed 16,000,000 of quarters. Now, in order to calculate the losses sus ta:ned by the revenue and the consumer, which was 544,7521. upon the first, and 949,344/. upon the second rate of prices, in making a calculation of that sort, he thought he was justified in taking even the highest calculation s in which wheat could have been imported from Dantzic; He was sure none of the Ho.iourable Gentlemen opposite would say it could be imported at less than 52'. a quarter; consequently, if they had a fixed Bs. duty, it could be brought to this market from Dantzic at 625. a quarter. Then the amount of loss to this country upon that would be 1,483,878/. Instead of gaining anything by this sliding down to the Is duty, the loss to the people was very great. During the time of its sliding down from 16s. Bd. to 2s. the loss to the people of England had been, certainly at least half a million, probably one million, and it was not impossible a mill:on and a half of money : hot this was not the total loss, there was also a loss of revenue—(hear, hear)—because all the corn which came in at the Is. duty would pay Bs. duty, irstead of I s. —( Hear, hear. ) In September last, 2,176,371 q uarters of wheat and corn were entered f.r home consumption at a duty of ls. ; the amount of revenue received from this was 135,882/. ; but if the duty had been 83., it would have amounted to 871,3161., w hi ch sl i owed a loss to the revenue of upwards of 730,0004 From these impositions the people had lost certainly not less than 1,200,0101., probably 2,000,00t1 He was sorry to have tres passed so long upon the House, hut he thought it worth while to work out these arguments.—( Hear, h ear.) He conceived the worst part of the sliding scale was the low duty.__( Hear.) If they looked at the effe c t of the sliding scale f or the last 14 years, who could doubt what would be the effect of the proposed scale? It would be that corn would never be introduced at at the time that it was wanted ; it would always be kept back till the duty got lower.—(Hear, hear.) He was glad that the Hon. Member for Stafford had withdrawn hit motion, because it would have given those who voted for it the air of voting for a paradox ; but he (Mr. C. Buller) would say that it would be better for the consumer to have stopped the fall in the sliding scale at 6s. or Bs., than to have brought it down to Is. He believed the sting of the scale was in the sliding scale.—( Hear, hear.) What was the history of this low scale? When the people in England actually wanted food, and one t..l' two facts. The principal arguments used against the present Corn-law he thought applied with equal force to the present Bill. The principal argument against the present Corn-law wag, that it prevented our trading with those coun tries having nothing but corn to give in exchange for our manufactures. It was a prohibition to foreign trade, and con sequently a prohibition upon the exportation of many of our manufactures, and this was aggravated by tarts tact that many of those countries refused to take the goods they had been in the habit of doing. Now he did not see how the present Bill would remedy that evil. On that ground, therefore, it ap peared to him that the present Bill, whatever were the modi fications of the old plan, did not overcome a single objection. Another argument which had been brought forward to the country was o , e which he thought was first mentioned in that House by a Gentleman whose absence every friend to free trade would lament, and when he mentioned the name ot Mr. Grote, Honourable Gentlemen opposite w..uld willing y acknowledge the great integrity, the great industry, and the great knowledge, he brought to bear on these subjects. lie remarked, in 1839, directing attention to the Meat alarm which had occurred in the i üblic mind with respect to the monetary crisis that had happen, d in the previous au•nmn, and he pointed out to the House the effect the Corn laws had had with respect to this crisis. He contended, then, that with r the present Corn-laws, the demand for corn would always, in a certain degree, be uncertain and sudden. When a sudden demand was made on foreign countries for corn, as was the ea•re when they were obliged to pay for it in gold, that gold drained the Bank of England, and the consequence was, that it brought the Bank of England to such a state, that, to save itself from bankruptcy , they were obliged to have recourse to the Batik of France. This, of course, press e d on a ll classes, who gave of h e or t wanted unnteeodctrreyd, because th e farme, s it, anti on no c l ass so m on tw e h ve a r s y manon t who unhappily were very large borrowers. 'When the Bank of England was in this state, they withdrew their advances to country banks. Now the present Bill being founded' on the principle of the sliding scale, it will keep up the necessity of having the recourse to gold to pay for a sud den demand for corn, therefeve they could only say it was bad in principle ; but he wished to direct the attention of the House more particularly to the mischievous operation of the Corn-laws, and which had beeu more particularly p resse d on hi s m i n d by a document received in that House, and which showed the effect the Corn-laws had on the employment of human labour. The document to which he referred was the THE SUN, LONDON, THURSDAY EVENING, MARCH 10, 1842 Colonial coffee and colonial sugar were protected hylfixed duties. It was said that in those duties they were to make a change It was rumoured that the apprehensions which were entertained of giving an undue stimulant to the slave-trade had begun to subside. But did they mean to supply a sliding scale to coffee and to sugar? If they did so, if they passed a law by which it would be enacted that the duty upon Brazilian sugar and upon Havannah sugar shout" depend upon the average price of Last an I West India sugar, he asked the Vice President of the I'oard of Trade whether a most material injury would not be done to the growers of sugars anti coffee by that liw ? Ile was not surprise", for his part, that the agriculturists of this country did not readily admit the opinions, regarded by• many as extreme opinions of Adam Smith and Mr. Huskisson, the latter of whom, at least in the later period of his life, hell that measures intended for the protection of agriculture were in reality detrimental to its interests. But it appeared to him (Mr. Sfiiel) that the opi nions of a political economist, who was himself a most decided advocate for protection, were worthy of their attention—he re referred now to Mr. APCulloch.—(Hear, he ir . ) Mr. M'Cul loch said—" A fluctuating duty superinduces an artificial variation in the natural and inevitable variation of the seasons, and is thus of as much injury to the farmer as it is to trade." —( Hear, hear.) Was that true? Let them see how the sliding scale had worked in order that they might ascertain how far anything analogous to it, anything founded upon the pre sent system was likely to be beneficial. The sliding scale in a single year, 1833, had shifted thirty-five times. On July 19, it was 20s. 3d.; on the 13th of September it was Is.; on the llth of October it was again 205. Bd. ; b e f ore the middle of Decem ber it had again desr•ended to Is. In 1840 the lowest duty was 2 s . 8 ( 1.; it continued at that rate for one week, and five weeks no corn came in, there were ships laden with corn laying in the river. That was in the middle of the month of August, and the average price of corn was comparatively low, yet the corn was kept back till the average reached 735. It was then ad mitted, as within a month of the time.—( Hear.) He would acknowledge that there were two merits in the Bill of the Right Hon Baronet —the first was, that we should get a little more revenue by it ; but the great advantage was, that it pulled the first brick out of the old system ; it shook the old Corn law—the poor old Corn-law —after they had ridden it so much, and it must came down. At any rate, whatever arguments Gentlemen opposite might employ when they went to the hustings, they would not go on the tried merits of the good old Corn-law.—(Cheers and laughter.) He remembered at the last election for Liskeard, thinking that he had established the most undoubted claims on the agriculturists, how annoyed he was to see his adversaries flag flapping in his face, calling him self " the farmer's friend," with mottoes of "speed the plough," and SO forth.—( Hear and laughter.) At any rate, this kind of argumett would not go on.—(Cheers.) At any rate, they would not tell the electors not to listen to those who proposed any change in the Corn-laws; they would not do as was done be the lion. and consistent Member for Licr lnshire, first say, "s an 1 by the Corn-laws," then vote for the amendment, then propose another amendment, and wind up by voting against his own amendment.—(Cheers and laughter.) They would not be able to say this, but he (Mr. C. Buller) would be bound that they would have some cry just as unfair, and if they could not appeal to the old Corn. law, they would to the new.— ( Cheers and hear.) That they would do he had no doubt. The Right Hon. Baronet the other day made them all feel—he touched them quite--with the way in which he told us of the difficulties lie had to encounter in this law—(Hear).--when he asked Hon. Gentlemen on his (Mr. C. Boiler's) side of the House to support him, he did not say the words against those unreasonable friends of his.—( Cheers and laughter.) When • ever those friends had ventured to came to a division against the Right lion. Baronet, and, on the last two occasions, when they had screwed up their courage, they, on the Opposition Benches, had supported the Right Hon. Baronet.—( Heat. ) At present, he should vote against the Bill of the Right Hon. Baronet, but whenever the Right Hon. Baronet's I riends should give him an opportunity of voting for the Right Hon. Baronet's modified Van or their propositions, he (Mr. C. Buller) should vote for the Right Hon. Baronet. If he might ask the Right Hon. Baronet to take aretrospective glance at a time when he was so hampered with the agricultural gentlemen in this Howe, he would ask him if he ever thought what would have been the result if the Right Hon. Baronet had conceded what must he conceded sooner or later, at the time wh e n hi s (Mr. C. Buller's) Noble F r i en d brought forward the motion last se.sion.—( Hear.) If the Right Hen. Baronet had come forward then, and had told the agriculturists that he would make good term: for them, and if he had told them to be calm, and not to insist on too much, instead of using all the argu ments he could on behalf of the old law, if he had held the same language and moderation which he wanted Gentle men on his (Mr. C. Buller's) side of the House to hold now. he believed that there would have been little difficulty in putting the trade in corn on the footing of a sliding scale. Sir E. KNATCHBULL said, that whatever might be the opinions of the Hon. Member who had just sat down, or whatever might be the opinions of the House, ho believed that no plan had ever been proposed by any Minister which met with the more unanimous concurrent of the agriculturists, than the measure now proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet. —(oh, oh, and laughter.) He repeated it—(oh, oh)—and he would make his observation general—that that was the opi nion entertained by persons in the House and out of the House.. There was one exception to be made to it, and that was the body of men engaged in the Anti-Corn law League ( Hear, hear ) With reference to the petitions presented to the House he was aware that there were a great many more presented against this law than there were in favour of it.— ( Hear, hear.) But how stood the fact ? Had they employed any means whatever during the last few months similar to those which had been taken by the Opposition? No, they rested their case upon its own merits ; and instead of expend ing their means in getting up -petitions, they had expended them in alleviating the distress in the country—(Oh, oh, and hear)—and he thought if Gentlemen oppwite had adopted the same course they would hare done mum' mo:e to relieve the people than they would ever do by getting them to sign peti tions.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman opposite, who had just sat down, admitted that there were two cr three points of merit in this Bill ; the first had been removed, and he was glad of that, because the whole system of Corn-law must fall with it. The Noble Lord had told them that " no surrender' was no longer to be the cry, that the flag had been struck, and that they must accede to a compromise. He (Sir E. Knatchbull) thought those were not the words that should have been employed. On the other hand, "no surrender" was still to be the cry, the flag had not been struck, and they were not compelled to accede to a compromise. If they sur rendered at all they would at least surrender at discretion. (The Right Hon. Baronet here spoke in so low a tone, and turned his back so frequently on the reporters, that it was wills the greatest difficulty we could catch his remarks ; indeed, in many parts he was quite inaudible.) He was understood to say, that the Noble Lord the Member for Sumlerland, had explained that ha would have no duty whatever. He (Sir Edward Knatchbull) understood the Noble Lord to say so most distinctly, and he went further than that, for he said that he thought that when he said so he was express ing the opinions of the farmers of Northumberland.—(" No," from Lord Howick.) If he had misunderstood the Noble Lord he was very sorry, but his impression certainly was that those were the expressions he made use of. In the course of this debate three propositions had been made—one was for the abolition of all duty whatsoever, one for a fixed duty, and one for preserving the law as it was.. He (S:r. E. Knatchbull) thought that it was necessary that there should be some altera tion in the Corn-laws, and he though the plan proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet was the one best suited to meet the views of reasonable men of all parties.-{Hear.)—(The Right Hon. Baronet was then understood to allude to some remarks which had fallen from Mr. C. Buller, but he spoke so low that we were unable to catch the purport of his observations.) The means of purchasing food was the matter of most conse quence to the poor man, and not the mere price. It was im material what the price of food might be if the labourer had not the money to purchase it. lie remembered the story of a man in Londen who went to purchase a few eggs. On inquiring what the price was, he was told he could have 6 eggs for a shilling. " Six eggs for a shilling," said he, " Oh, in Ireland I could get thirteen for a shilling." " Well, then," rejoined the other, " why do you not go b ac k t o I re l an d ?" " Because I could not," replied the first, "obtain the money thsre wherewith to purchase them." Such was the case in the present instance. Au Hon. Member had complained of the rise in the price of corn in his neighbourhood, but if that were so, wages must hay,: been raised, and the sufferings of the poor diminished. He (Sir E. Knatch bull had given his assent to the Bill now before the House, which, he trusted, would soon be passed into a' aw. He had given his assent to it under the firm conviction that it was a measure that would operate for the benefit of the coun try at large. He did not think that her Majesty's Govern ment could be justly charged with seeking exclusively t uphold the interest of any particular class. 'they had pro posed this measure under the impression that in 30 doing they were legislating for the advantage of all classes of the community. Much had been said in the couse of those dis cussions of the tone and temper of the debates on this e. sub- j t He thought that everything like violence should be avoided e in all discussions in that House. He had endeavoured in the course of his observations to take that course himself, and he hoped that nothing hal fallen from him which might be considered inconsistent with such a course. The Right Hon. Baronet made some observations in conclusion, which, as well as many passages in the course of his speech, were spoken in so low a tone as to be quite inaudible in the gallery. Lord HOWICK wished to make an observation in explana tion of what had fallen from the Right Hon. Baronet, who had just sat down, in reference to him (Lord Howick.) The Right Hon. Gentleman had said that he (Lord Howick) had expressed himself as opposed to any duty whatever on corn ; and, furthess, that he (Lord Howick) had stated such to be the opinions of the persons whom he represented in that House. What he (Lord Howick) had said was precisely the opposite. His k Lord Howick's) argument was, that the present Corn law was so injurious to the agriculturists, that it would be much better for them if they were totally resealed ; but that his own view was that the best course for all interests of the country would he to impose a moderate fixed duty. To prove that such hat been his argument, he (Lord Howick) had gone on further to state the inducements which the landed inte. est hid to such au arrangement. He had expressed his opi nion that in a short time such an arrangement would be no longer practicable, bat that a total repeal would be required. Among the farmers of the north of Eng land that was a growing opinion—a race of men who far ex ceeded in intelligence and shrewdness the farmers of the south of England. Sir E. KNATCHBULL had certainly thought the Noble Lord had used the words alluded to, otherwise he (Sir E. Kna,ehbull) would not have attributed them to him. ....... Mr. SHIEL was certainly much surprised that the Right Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down, remarkable as he was for his perspkuity, had mistaken the Noble Lord, who was also remarkable for his perspicuity. The Right Hon. Baronet had misconceived the matter to which he had adverted, and which appeared to him most deserving. of attention. Among the many observations made by the Noble Lord, it struck him (Mr. Shiel) that there was one particularly worthy cf notice, and that, was his designation of the measure of the Right Hon. Ba ronet, as the precursor of an ulterior measure. The Noble Lord had stated that it was elaviout the Right lion. Baronet could not stop there, and that either he or some other Minister would be compelled ultimately to abandon the project which was now introduced. Upon that observation no remark had been made by the Right Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down. Whether he had assented to it or not, had not ap peared. He (Mr. Shiel) thought that the objection made by the Noble Lord was one deserving the most serious considera tion. To tamper with she laws that regulate the price of pro visions, had been said by Edmund Burke to be at all times dan gerous. But when they did tamper with them—when yielding to the force of public opinion to a certain extent, they took the first step (and the first step was the most important)—when they made a change which was most satisfactory, as the Right Honaurable Baronet ( Sir E. Knatchbull) had just observed, but to which Cse Duke of Buckingham at least felt the strongest objection—when they made such a change as was objected to by a distinguished Nobleman who had not been a member of the Cabinet in 1829, and who had ceased to be a member of the Cabinet in 1842—0 f whose secession from that Cabinet all he (Mr. S.) would say was, honi suit qui anal y pease (Hear, hear and laughter.) When he said they ventured to make such a change, it was a matter of much regret and some surprise to him, that they should not do at once what he thought, either they or some one else must do it last—that they should still adhere to the vicious principle of the present system, of which perpetual vicissitude constituted the essence, a principle which affordeA incentives to fraudulent combina tions, and substituted the spirit of rash adventure for that of legitimate commerce.—(llear.l They applied the sliding scale to corn, but to no other article of human food. afterwards it was 20e. Bd. In 1841 the duty was 10s. for one week only ; in the following successive weeks it was 2s. Bd., BeL, 16s. Bd., and on the 20th of October it was 20s. Bd. It appeared to him that that system, or anything like it, must be productive of injury to agriculturists themselves; and he thought that the simplicity of the farmer was egregious when he conceived that in such a system he would find a safeg uard for his intere s t s . B ut i t was said that the proposition :f the Right Hon. Baronet would obviate many of the objections which attached to the present system. He introduced the rests in his scase for the purpose of baffling fraud ; but where the rests were not introduced fraud would not be baffled. It was true that he lowered the duties ; but he left them to range from 20s. to Is., and thus affordod to the trafficker in grain an in ducement to hoard up corn, and then glut the market, when the opportunity, to the creation of which they themselves could so essentially contribute, should have arrived.—( Hear, hear. ) It was urged that in times of scarcity there would be a diffi culty in maintaining a fixed duty. He met that objection by an appeal to the authority which he had already quoted. Mr. M'Culicch said that if there were a regular trade in corn, by means of a fixed duty, the supply would be proportionate, and that the fixedness of the duty would take away from the muta bility of the price. He (Mr. Shiel) though that where there must be a choice of evils, it would be better to confide a fixed duty to the discretion of Parliament than to surrender the averages to the jobbers of the market. —( Hear, hear, hear.) But whatever question might be raised with respect to the effect of the sliding scale upon agriculture, he thought that with respect to its operation upon the commerce and manufactures of the country no doubt could be reasonably entertained. During the last four years we had imported millions of quarters of corn, but we had no trade in corn ; trade was barter ; trade consisted in the exchange of one set of commodities for another. Where our demand for corn was but desultory, the demand for our manufactures could not be permanent.—(Hear, hear.) If there were a regular trade in corn, it seemed to him quite obvious that foreign merchants would not be interested in excluding our manufac tures, which they now endeavoured to exclude by means of retaliatory tarqfs, for the purpose of giving encourage ment to their own domestic industry. Corn was pro tected, but not for the benefit of the agriculturist of this country. It was to our competitors in the foreign market ; it was to those whom we could not deprive of the benefit of our machinery ; it was to those who had got posses sion of the secrets of our mechanism—it was to those who emulated us in industry, and who rivalled us in skill—it was to them that the law gave a protection the most efficacious.— (Cheers.) It would hardly be contended that the countries from which we had for the last five years derived our supplies of corn had taken a fair proportion of ow manufactures.— ( Hear, hear.) Let any man look at the number of vessels which had entered the Baltic, and he would finn that, in the sear 1839, 1,000 English ships entered the Baltic in ballast. In 1838 413 English ships entered the port of Dantzic in ballast, and in the same year 417 left the port of Dantzic laden with corn. Now what was the effect of that system upon the currency of the country ? What was the effect of that system upon the metallic curreney which the Right Honourable Baronet had the merit of establishing, and over which therefore he ought to watch with peculiar care ? (Hear. ) It seemed to him to be inconsistent to establish that metallic currency and yet to persevere in a system by which the country was deprived of its corn. Foreign corn must be paid for in bullion; the exchanges were turned against the country, the circulation was contracted, a panic ensued, and distress to a great extent was the consequence. He would call the attention of the House to the language of Mr. Iluskis• son, with respect to that view of the subject. The words were used in 1821, and though applied by him to the Corn-laws of 1815, they were equally applicable to the system now proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet. The Hon. Member then read an extract, to the effect that the Corn-laws of 1815 tended directly to contract our commercial dealings with other States, and to mite in the rulers of those States a determination to exclude the productions and manufactures of this country ; and when it was necessary to send for corn, which must be paid for in hulhon, the effect was to de range fur a time the monetary system of the country. Such was the language of Mr. Huskisson two years after the Bill of the Right Hon. Baronet passed into a law. He was not one of those who condemned the Right Hon. Baronet for proposing that Bill ; but he thought that the Right Hon, Baronet evinced far greater moral courage in proposing it than he would have done by introducing a measure of absolute free trade.—(Hear, hear.) They were entreated not to change the relations of landlord and tenant by abolishing the Corn-laws ; but the Right Hon. Baronet, in 1819, had altered those relations, as well as the relations of debtor and creditor, and to every incumbrance in the country had made the aug mention which the eloquent and distinguished author of the pamphlet on Corn and Currency had so powerfully described. —( A laugh.) The Right Hon. Baronet was not then a Mi nister of the Crown. His solicitude for the interest of his country was then unbiassed by any anxiety for the maintenance of his party.—(Hea r , hear, hear.) H e (Mr. Shell) wished that h e wou ld now act with the the same moral intrepidity; that in spite of those threaten ing intimations which had been given in another place, and in a spirit worthy of the emergency, he would afford a relief to the distresses of the country more effectual than was to be found in effusion., because eloquent, or unprofitable com miseration. It had been said that the Corn-laws were not connected with the distresses of the country. The extent of that distress had formerly been denied; tle extent was proved, but there was a denial of the cause. For his own part, when he found that the Corn laws injured the trade and commerce of the country, he found in them an adequate cause of the distress, and to that adequate cause, that legiti mnte effect was, he thought, fairly ascribed. If nothing effectual were done in a Parliament in which the landed in terest predominated, he was afraid that the people of this country would be disposed to turn with reseutmsnt from the mere expres sions of a barren sympathy; and, as they had been led to think the Poor-laws were not dictated by any very profound solici tude for the interest of the poor, they would be led to think that the Corn-laws were maintained from an exclusive regard for the higher classes of the community. It would be hard, indeed, to force the distressed operatives to seek an asylum in the Poor house. If charity was proscribed under that systein, let not work be refused. The people of England did not ask for charity, tht y did not go upon their knees to solicit any mercenary con tribution ; they asked for trade that produced work—for work that produced bread j They did not so much ask for cheap bread as for the means of earning it, whether it were cheap or costly.—(Cheers.) They called upon them to strike off the restrictions which cramped the industry of the country; and, in calling upon them to do that, they wanted them to consult, not only their interests, but their own. He entirely agreed in the sentiment which he had heard expressed by the Hon. Member for Dorchester, that the agricultural interest, and the commercial interest were not distinct. So far from being dis tinct, they depended upon each other, and were in truth the same. Trade depended upon agr culture, agriculture depended upon trade. He was sure that the Hon. Member for Stock port, when he looked upon the splendid spectacle which rural scenery presented, must draw from it the highest pleasure an .I desired to see the agricultural interest continue to prosper ; and he was equally sure that the Hon. Baronet, the Member for Kent, must see, in the very smoke in which our large cities and towns were enveloped, indications cf the great means by which a vast proportion of our population were maintained, and the greatness of the country achieved. No, the agricultural and commercial interests were not distinct ; but if they were, and if in place of giving a just sustainment to both, it were ne cessary to make a sacrifice of one of those interests, then he 'would be disposed to say that the maintenance of the com merce of England should, with every Englishman 'deserving the name, be the object of pre-eminent impoitance. It was not to their agriculture —to the fertility of their soil— to the peculiar happiness of their climate—to their rare skill in rearing the seed from the earth—it was not owing to these cause 4, but it was owing to the strength f their commercial enterprise, that England was distinguished beyond any other nation in the circle of the civilised world.—(Cheers.) It was owing to her indomitable perseverance in the pursuit of bound less traffic, to her untiring industry in manufacturing energy, to the wonderful skill with which she filled the earth with the produce 9f her labour and her genius, to her commerce, which she extended to the uttermost boundaries of the world—it was to these glorious causes that England was indebted for her high pre-eminence among the nations of the globe.— (Cheers.) Against her trade the mighty adver sary of England directed his blow—he failed— but let them take care that what Napoleon was not able to ef fect they may accomplish by their impolicy.—(llear, hear.) Let them beware, lest, by an obstin a t e a dh erence to a system repugnant to all the maxims of sound commerce and sound policy.-.let them take care, lest by a system which so many enlightened men—men not more enlightened than im partial, had concurred in condemning •as a source of so much mischief, which ha I already produced such great calamities, and teemed with still greater injury—let them beware, lest by such a system, they may cramp the industry of the coun try, diminish its commerce, expose the monetary sys tem to perpetual disturbance, reduce the operative classes to a state of destitution; and (said the Right Hon. G en tl eman , turning to Sir R. Peel) beware lest by adhering to such a system, though you were the first in talents amongst the most talented—the first in wi,dom among the most wise—the first in virtue among the most high-minded of statesmen, to whom the fortunes of a country were ever committed—you ma y no t for the evil consequences be able to find a cure.—( Cheers. ) Mr. GLADSTONE said that he believed the first words which were heard to issue from the lips of the Right Hon. Gentleman were an exclamation r f surprise that at the present period, and after.the experience they had had, her Majesty's Government should, in attempting a sett ement of the Corn laws, adhere to the principles of a graduated scale. Ito did not mean to say that there were not Gentlemen who did not utter such language without raising in his mind any feelings of surprise—( Hear, hear)—but he did entertain feelings of sur prise when he heard it uttered by the Right Hon. Gentleman —( Hear) It was possible that he (Mr. G:adstone's) mind might be labouring under some hallucination, that there might be some errors in the proceedings of the House, but there was a , not very antiquated corn-law founded on a gradual scale— founded even on the old graduated. scale—which had been brought forward in the House on several occasions, and on all these occasions he found the Right Hon. Gentleman voting in favour of it.—(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Gentleman had selected the year 1838, and he told them that the fixed duty under the law of that year, had produced no less than 35 change • but a preposition had been made for the removal of the law of' 1838, and the Right Hon. Gentleman resisted it. —(Loud cheers.) But in the year 1838, he had not known any of those 35 changes, and the effect of those changes ci,uld not be perceived until the year 1839.—( Hear, hear.) In that year a motion of the most unqualified description was brought forward, for the correction of those evils against which he now raises all his eloquence, by the Hon. Membe for Wolverhampton, who moved that certain persons he he ar d by co..msel at the Car of the House, who complained of the operation of the Corn-laws, and even to that most moderate demand the Right Hon. entleman was prepared to give a total and absolute denial.—(Loud cheers ) He (Mr. G.) would not complain of any change in the opinions of the Rigkt Hon. Gentleman with regard to any question of policy; and much less with regard to questions relating , to trade and commerce. —subjects which were so intricate and involved—neither would be question his motives or impeach his judgment, but when, dining the two last years, he was found among the staunch supporters of this law, though now unwilling to admit any compromise, and full of surprise at the conduct of the oresent Government. Such a change might well excite on his side of the House a corresponding feeling (if surprise.—( Cheers.) But let him look to the arg umen t s , if arguments he might call them, of the Right. Honourable Gentleman. —(Laughter.) lle quoted the words of Mr I! uskisson in 18 4 1, but was it fair to quote the wor s of Mr Huskisson in that year? Was it fair touote him against ev er y wor d an d act of his subsequent life' . The Right Hon. Gentleman knew that Mr. Huskissou supported the present law, and was almost the author of the system of 1827, which was more stringent than the law of 1827. He qu.ded Hus kisson in 1821 against Mr. Ilu•kisson in 1828, when he was the advocate of the present stringent law, and gave the sanc tion of his high authority in favour of a high protective system. The Right Hon. Gentleman had retrodden these paths which were already beaten in the long drbates which took place on the subject, and after the many times he had here tofore trespassed on the indulgence of that House, he must be excused if he did not follow the Right lion. Gentleman into all the topes he touched upon. The Right Hon. Gen tleman had expended a great deal of eloquence on the rela tive advantages of agriculture and commerce, but while he was anxious to exhibit the great advantages of trade and commerce to the country, he was sorry that he rated' somewhat lower the agricultural skill of the country.--( Hear, hear.) He ( Mr. G.) felt con vinced that the same skill and industry which was so'conspictious in the manufacturing greatness of England had also give n t o agr i culture a power and an efficieney; whieh '-'7 8t ;"1":1 : : : 1 . 1- ""-:: 1- a ( I e ag x r c i e e e u d l e t d ur t i h st a s t w o o f uelvderygootl.7nr cfjoeunintryyeae,and he t rus t e d t h at t h e ' "--14‘ to year incrr e s d in fo t i h t e . efficiency of the soil, b y t h e means which the app lie Right Hon. Gentl eman adverted to a Lpi p cwhich had become very trite, with alll who were acquainted with the Corn-law debates, namely, the operation of the Corn-laws in hampering the trade of foreign countries. He must here repeat what he ventured to state on a former occasion. The Bight Hon. Gentleman said that if they had a fixed duty on corn that would lead to a fixed importation — a fixed importation would lead to a fixed trade, and that would lead to an increased demand for manufactures. He (Mr. G. ) passed over the fact that the Right Hon. Gentleman beg ge d the question, the important question, that the impor.. tatior, of corn would be followed by an increased deMand for manufactures.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") Perhaps in a long] period of time such a result would fol ' low.—( Opposition cheers.) Ile said in a long period of time it would have that effect. But let them look to what existed, and was going forward at the present moment. There was Russia, which sent tallow and hemp and other articles, but Russia did not take the manufactures in exchange. An Hose. MEMBER—She does indirectly. Mr. GLADSTOSE (in continuation) —But she did not to anything like the extent to obi h we imported from her. Russia did not take their goods to more than 35 per cent. of the arriou,t to which they took goods in return from her. He did no wish to discourage a fixed trade as far as it was competent with other interests. The Right lion. Gentleman could not deny that the extent of a fixed duty must be limited by the average demand. Suppose they wanted two millions of qua, tens of wheat, a fixed trade might enable them to procure two millions, and they might also pay for them with manufac tured goods. but how would it operate in present circum stances ? For the last three or four years they had had bad harvests, and there was a deficiency of corn to the amount of ten million quarters, mad how, he asked, mild such a deficiency be suppled by a fixed duty? In such a case, a sudden demand was created which the ordinary market may not be prepared to supply, and they must then offer high prices, and pay in bullion, and the same result as that which now took place under the present system must ensue. The Hon. Geatlesuan, the Member for Li , keard, took a different course, and alluded to the effect of the Corn-law in diminishing the demand for labour. It was incident to their discussions that fallacies become current on both sides, and there could be no greater fallacy than that which promised cheap bread. lie thought it was admitted in the House that cheap bread meant nothing beneficial to the labouring elass es .—( C r i es o f " No, no. " ) What he read in the speeches of Honourable Gentleman was that they were not to le ok to the money price, but to the rela tive price of food. That was the question, and it was compa ratively unimportant what the money price was, provided they had a relative command of the necessaries of life.—(Cheers.) He certainly did hear less in the course of the present debate tkan he used in former years, about the danger of the British manufactures being undersold by their foreign competitors. Whatever might be the distress prevailing amongst British manufacturers at the present time, so far was it from besiug caused by our foreign competitors, that it was an unquestiona ble fact that those suffered much more from our competition than we did from theirs. It had been shown this year that our exports of cotton goods wore increasing at the time that be consumption at home was also increasing ; and, therefore, while it did appear to him most unjust and detrimental to de preciate the energies of English agriculturists, he would add that he was rejoieed, on patriotic grounds, to find that our trade Ilia less to tear than in former years, from the efforts of foreign competition. He would admit that the competition of foreign rivals was formidable in some branches—nor would he attempt to weaken any argument that had been used to show that British manufactures were entitled to some remedy against some of those disadvantages ; but he would affirm that British manufacturers, taken as a whole, were able to beat their oppo nents in almost every country of the world.--(Cheers.) But the Hon. Gentleman said the effect of the Corn-laws was to limit the:situ - nand for labour. He spoke of the great hardships of the present State of things, and alluded to the report of Mr . Horner, who stated that in one place 32,000 persons were only partially employed, and 17,000 without employment, . making 52,000 persons out of work. Undoubtedly this was a lamentable state of things, but the real question for the House to consider was, would a repeal of the Corn laws remedy it ?—( Cheers.) Now, setting aside all questions of cheap bread and foreign competition, and looking to the sub 'ect as regarded the labouring classes, he would ask, did each Gentleman really believe that a repeal of the Corn.laws would diminish the number of unemployed labourers 7—( Cheers. ) He did not say of the nu m b er o f labourers unemployed in ma nufactures, but those of all classes.—(Hear, hear.) Was it possible that any man could suppose, whatever might be his opinion of the ultimate "effect of the repeal of the Corn-laws on land—was it possible any man could believe that a repeal of the Corn-laws would not di:place a vast means of agricultural labour ?—(Cheers.) This had been, to a great extent, treated as a landlord's question, but he thought that, for the present generation, at least, it was more of a labourers' question.— (Cheers.) Now the most approved authorities on land, de fined rent as the surplus produce the land yielded after the cost of cultivation and, the maintenance of the cultivator. if this were so, considering the many classes of land in cultiva tion, it might be said that the lowest class yielded no rent, or at least that the returns were exceedingly small. If you raised the price of agricultural produce in any country, you would bring a much wider extent of land into cultivation, and there- fore the poorer soils would be tilled ; and if the poorer soils in our country were cultivated through the rise of the price of agricultural produce, it followed that if you diminished prices you would throw the poorer soils out of cultivation. This might diminkh rents, but in the present extent of cultivation was clear that if you reduced rents, by throwing certain lands out of cultivation, you must, at the same time, throw out of em ployment a great body of labourers.—(Hear.) It was also said that if the Corn-laws were repealed the agriculturists, instead of rasing wheat to the present extent, would turn their fields into pasture. This was another view of the question. It was said that by doing this the landlords would maintain their rents; perhaps so, but was it not at least clear that the transfer from tillage to pasture would throw a vast number of labourers out of work P-- (Hear, hear, and cheers.) It was evident, then, that throughout the country the support of the agricultural labourers would be more endangered by a repeal of the Corn-laws than the rents of the landlords.—( Hear, hear.) He hoped now that the practical result of those cor.siderations would be to induce the House to approach this question in the calm temper recommended to them by a preceding speaker. Of all things he (Mr. Gladstone)-would de precate any violent legislation on this subject, because the effect would be to disturb the enormous mass of capital embarked in agri cultural pursuits, to spread a panic amongst the cultivators of the soil, and to diffuse, perhaps, in consequence of mere apprehensions and fears, much misery through the community.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. and Learned Member for Lsskeard said, that one object was to attempt to preserve that security to the farmer which we did not give to other interests, by excluding foreign compet,itimits cer. tain stages of the corn market. But the Honourable 'and Learned Gentleman should recollect that they attempted ads because they could already srcure to other interests what they eould not to the farmer—that was, that while they could so cure to other interests a uniform legal protection, they could not in the opinion of nine-tenths of the gentle. men present, do this for the farmer; and, therefore, if it were true that the state could not compensate the farmer for the burdens on the land in proportion to the protection given to other interests, nothing could be more fair—the policy of the Act apart—that the inability of the State should be compensated by ex. traordinary legal privileges. The Right Hon. and Learned Gentle. man who spoke last, said that in the markets of the country, under the old law, the consumer derived no benefit from the Is. duty when the price was 735. ; that the foreign holder derived all the profit ; that the same amount, about 2,000,000 of quarters, would come in under an Bs. duty as trader the present law, and that at prices above 645. Now, its the first place, they ought to guard.agalnss fallacy. But admitting the defective working of the old law, he believed that the new law, as shown its the course of the de. bates, and as declared by eminent mercantile authorities, in. eluding men of all parties, would have the efik•et ofpermauently rem3‘ing, or at least of materially diminishing, the defects of the present system. But the Hon. and Learned Gentleman was too severe on the dead, while he claimed too much credit for a fixed duty. The Hon. Gentleman said that at the price of 56a. the fol reign holder of corn would be as much Induced to bring corn to England as at 725. But was it natural that the fo reigners would go to such a distance, pay as much for transport, and pay as much to the original cultivator for 565. as for 725, This required no refutation. But the stew law would give good encouragement to the foreign holder, and great relief to the consumer at home. The Hon. Gentleman calculated on a moat liberal scale when he said that three hundred thousand pounds would be lost to the consumer in the quantity of corn returned by the corn-inspectors, who, in fact returned only one-finuth of the corn sold ; so this might be multiplied by four. But those returns gave by much the highest sales in the country, and as those sales were mostly from hand to hand, the reports did not represent bona fide votes,—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Gladstone) hails heard with great pleasure the able and temperate speech of the Noble Lord, the Member for Sunderland But now the House had determined by an overwhelming majority against a repeal of tlto Corn-laws, arid against a fixed duty, what then were they dis. cussing? The Hon. Gentleman, who last spoke, called the new law the precursor of ultimate change, and quoted Burke, to show that a Government ought not to tamper with Proyisson.laws. But a Government did 'tot tamper with a subject when it brought for ward a measure, admitted to be practicable, which could be carried, and which was not a speculation, or a mere political manteuvre. (Careers and laughter.) He did in..t mean to ray that the measure of last year, though introduced under suspicious circumstances, was not a sincere and conscientious measure; but the word tamper was a two-edged weapon, and it bore sharply certainly en the proposition of the other side. — (Cheers and laughter.) He alirmed that the present Government did not tamper with the Corn-laws its bringing forward a measure which was allowed to be a relief and to be prac ticable. Even the Noble Lord, the Member for Sunderland, in his candid speech, while stating that he did not believe the Corn-laws to be the cause, or the principal cause of the present distress, said the proposed alteration would be a very substantial ,benefit, for it wOuld mitigate the restrictions, and diminish the evils now felt— adding, that though he had no objection to vote with his Hon. Friend, the Member for Warrington, because he believed it would be no impediment, brat If he believed the junction would be to reject the Bill, nothing on earth would induce him to give his vote.— (Laughter and cheers.) This was the declaration of one of the most able advocates of a fixed duty. Now, those were tamperers as he (Mr. G.) thought with the Corn and Provision-laws 'who brought forward a measure which they knew they cpuld not carry. He did not question their intentions ; but if they knew so little - of political affairs, or of their position, as is deal with a question in. voicing the most vital interests of society, and agitating the country from end to end, those who attempted to deal with such a question demanding the utmost strength of a Government long after they had lost their strength, and without a hope of bringing their efforts to a conclusion, the Government who so acted were, he said, tamperers with the Corn.laws.—(Loud cheers.) Now with regard to a graduated scale, he should be ready to show if it were necessary at this stage of the discussion, that. it was pos. Bible to conceive a graduated scale which might operate without in. convenience to trade, and be in ever) way beneficial both to the consumer and producer. But he must content himself with re. minding the Right lion. Gentleman, and those who thought with him, that though there was no such thing as ideal perfection on this subject, yet there was great Parliamentary authority on behalf of a sliding scale, and if the agriculturists had been in a delusion with regard to it, he would ask the Hon. Gentleman to view them with something of compassion and sympathy, whets he recollected that tiil lately he had been a partaken in their delusion. Surely i was a matter worthy their consideration that the landed interest possessed a large share in the representation of the country.— (Hear, hear.) The lion. and Learned Member for Liskeard had compassionated his Right lion. Friend at the supposed uneasiness of the agriculturists. 11 hy, if ever there was a time in which the agriculturists had done themselves honour by the feeling they had generally exhibited, by the good sense and practical prudence they had generally, or with but rare exceptsons displayed its the way they had regarded this matter, the present was that rime.— (Cheers.) He was sincere in that declaration ; he thought it was difficult to look at the details of the present law, and nut see that the agriculturists of England were ma ki ng a considtraLle sacrifice* lie did not say th a t t h ey were sacrificing too much — he was far from contending that they were sacriticing more than he commer c i a l an d ot h er i terests o f the country . h a. " hall a right to demand. But a t a ti me w h en par ties had together nin shat. . pened by political exciteme n t, h a d b een Pi, r stimulant fled of a general el e cti on, h a d b een heatedapply which those who ought to have known b a e re u d views that, [Yom (Cheers)—when they considered the exaggerated I entertain, he would these circumstances, parties had b say that it was honourable to the aril supported it, and carried aegenriculturists of England that they accepted the present propoai stinglaw.Let those echo thought through as an amendment of theca in the position or • (hone who thought their interests put themselves thoueht that a maximum dirty . of :2( .. )5. , was a prohibitive duty, ‘lo wer e bound up with the Cor u -l a ws. Ile did not say that it was s o, but letthem assume it. W as it no mat er i a l change, instead of a duty gradually rising with the price, to accept the preseut . e` , `,~ll~h ,9