The Sun. — London, England, 1820-01-07 00:00:00

det oiled ateentioo oI Parlieme est ; h was a ritiestiou not wily of ereet importauce, but of the otmoer nicety to decide, whetimsr tine, and what elterations should he made in the laws relating to te Revenue---whether, while they were rendered less burdensome they could he merle equally pro ductive i God forbiderhat he (Lord Grenville) shoelo restrain the House froin such examine• Lions ; bet if done at all, it must be effected by the specification of pattienletrs, by balancing against each other the amooot of the d o ri e s im posed, and the probability whether if those, for instance, on wine ti ere reduced, those on spirits %%meld be eqeally oductive Each most betaken disthooly, and distinctly viewed ; and it lie thought that there was the smallest doubt that they would engage the constant attention of Parliament, he would not oppose, as far as respected them, the motion of to•oight. He most take the lib , ..rty, however, of saying, ehet qoestione of Finance were n o t lightly to be entertained or cursorily to he dismissed : no sohjects of greeter dificulty could occupy the attention of a Sate-man than those which (Hose out of doubts, whether the pro dere of cereit, imposts would not be lessened if the qer-orsit of ditties on other articles were leseen ed : above till, it was west unwise to make sudden clieugtot., to accommodate some loose uncettain theory, some vague and dubious speculatiore— (ilear.)—Ueon the - oilier point a dverted to by the Noble Nlarquese, they were ligrued in principle: by (f o od Grenville) had no hesitation in saying, that it refotild be material to make a change in our com mercial regelitions, as they tespected the impor tetion of timber from the north of Europe. But this, and other matters of the like t rture, must be separately and mit iens'ysestet). He was far in deed iron) egteeiog, that even if it should torn "tint that nothing could he accomplished by the Committee, it ought still to be appointed, that a pleitge might be held out to the country of the desire of Parliament to do the utmost for its re lief. If a pledge were then given that Parliament were disposed to do something, would the dis tressed be satisfied if something were not actually done ?—(Hear, hear, hear ?)—ln his view the Ilouse must not entertain the subject at all in the way proposed, unless a confident expectation ex isted that an inquiry would lead to the discovery of sonic impel' tent relief.—(Cheers )—Upon this point he would not further detain their Lord ships, but would proceed to the most 'moor tent branch of the present question—the real si tuation of the country. He eutreated the House to consider, if it were trite that evil tnen had availed themselves of existing distlessee to do evil, what duty devolved upon Parliament ? %Vas it not to wield the peaceable and welltlisposed inha bitants of time kingdom, who had taken no share in recent transactions--(Cheers)—to guard the Constitution itself from those who were bent upon its destructiou )—(Cheers.)— For the accom plishmeot of that destruction, look at the mesas employed, not within the iact few -. years only, but as a system in a connecte•, uninterrupted, and ae relereted march ; see how closely it followed iu every particular, that event Which the promoters of confusion audaciously held out as the object of their imitation. (low was it that so long a series of calamities had been In ought upon France? In the first instance, by covering the whole soil of the country, by inundating it with a torrept of every species of blasphemy evil sedition, ley a pro fusion of libels, the whole object of which was to vilify, in the estimation of the people, all that they Lad been accustomed to love and venerate, to render despicable, more especially in the eyes of the ignorant, who were most liable to be led away by ungoverned passions, the institutions their forefathers had established, and tinder which they themselves had flourished. How closely this system had been pursued here, its long standing, and the height it had attained, he %voila not at tempt to describe ; their Lordships had this night heard at the table, ft om one of those publications, words at which the blood of every man would shudder. Yet not from that only, nor trom meny such as that, lead he collected an im preasem 'hat some more firm and efficient conduct on the part Government end Parliament was elo.ohoely necessary to put• a stop to the progress cif :hiL sowing evil—the real source of all the na tional peal', and which openly boasted that it would overwhelm every thing now standing in this country.—(Cheers.)—lt would be a most treeless waste of time to employ it upon useless imieatioes or recriminations of individuals. A system was established, and had long been esta blished on this- subject, most grateful to•the feel ings of every man,es long as it could exist with safe ty to his most valeiLble rights ; the time had arrived when that system could not be continued in its first freedom without the most imminent danger• s from the Ministerial benches.)— He spoke it with the deepest affliction, lamenting the change he had witnessed, and deploring tint less that that ehatige in the practice must be met by a con e,p,)tiding change in the l a w.—(llear, )tear.)—Let the House look at the yeurs 179 J and 1794 ; let them observe the next step that Was taken in France, tied compare it with the wets sures adopted here. Unions were established for the 'impose of more effectually disseminating the odious doctrines of rbe libels, and of iresiuuatiog the poison into the boson) of every family. Villre'n, this evil bad grown to 'rich a meguitude as to work. time eff4ct proposed, meetings were conAro get ed. 'l' lie uninformed and deluded classes were to—ditiously assembled fer the express purpose of teaching the people to estimate their physicaltorce, t mtit° spew how easily they might overcoats all resist a nceopposed to them.—(Continued cheers.) — lie this situation Great Britain now stood, and the question at the present crisis was twilling less than this—whether Parlietnent would further acquiesce in the progress of these designs, of -whether they .were now at length to be resisted ? It not resiated 'slow, all resistance in future would be vain, unless indeed Some taint reliance could be placed upon the deadly opposition, at- the very thought of • whielo Englieh. hearts ran cold, coniisting in the • ..7dretio-ful contests of .open insurrection, and the • 'Bloody efforts of civil warfare—(Cheers.) — The - Secoud part of the proposition of tile Noble Mar . teo,se in hiis ( Lord Grenville's) judgmen t, thou g h he was weli cousenced that the Noble INlaiquess wee f e e, soey far, icon), such an intention, would ne ceetribute to counteract and de l". , !et' dDS I venteilmiug a the heads of Patliament to et-tercet Ilitse great abuses. lr he were asked to What. he looked Kt this fearful hoer tar succour and preservetioo, he should answer, without hesitation, to the attachment of the middle and higher orders cowards the individual with whom rested the executiou of the laws, on whom depended their defence, and by whom be was sa tisfied tb , y would be firmly and effectually de feu eled---e(Heer, bear!)—Tumultuous, hostile, and menacing assemblies had beets held, which, in his conscience, he bettered were des igned to intimi date the peaceable inhabitants, and to prevent their ro-operation for the maintenance ot tran quilthy, and the support of the Constitution ; and his Noble Friend had inquired why some of them had been tolerated and suffered to disperse, while against others the arm ot the law had been raised, and where that had not possessed sufficient sit ength, a milita‘l force had been called in to th e aid of the civil po,tter. In reply, be (Lord Grenville) should say that there may have beet' too meet) forbearance. Perhaps he thought so ; and besides the assembly at Manchester, otticr meetings had been held, to which at present, without hesitation, (peaking always with that doubt which beceine a man not possessed of full intelligence of the subject,) he shoulftapplv the pi•bet of illegal—(Hear !)—Notions prevailed in some querters, absurd and childish nations, that meetings, however constituted, and in whatever manner courlucted, were legsl until the people as sembled arrived at the actual point of open vio leuce. la the first place, without having any deep skill in the laws of the country, lie might say, that if such were the law, it was different tram any knowledge he had acquirtd in his youth, or had since imbibed from any author. On the con trary, he had learut that, independent of open violence, another circumstance would constitute an illegal meeting, viz. that it was its terrorem poptili, that it was calculated to - inspire fear into the m i„e o f a firm a lid constant mats, and that it did actually produce that apprehensioth this Lordship assorted that these meetings did inspire that fear, and consequently that they were de cidedly illegal—(Herre, hear, hear !)—After what the House had beard that night, it was unnecessary for him to impress upon it the pa i n t i d end a rduous situation in which Magis t ra t es thistrate we re placed who geese compelled to act upon legal inciple—(Cheers )—lf. indeed, the subject were so plain and simple, that any man could take the book down from his shell', sod say, " here is the line of your duty—here is the clear distier lion you are to observe —here legality begins, and here it ends—thus far may a meeting go, and no further ;" then there might indeed be great rea son to ask why assemblies had been in some eases tolerated that ought not to have been endured hut the qu'estion was, whether the public aSSCIII. bly was to the terror of the peaceable, and that was surrounded with difficulties. If an individual presented himself' before a Magistrate, to swear the peace agains t anoth er , no work could be pointed out that could show that thus high only a man might raise bis arm withoet a violation of the law, or that danger to lite might be (headed if a man were threatened by a dagger, but not if a clasp knife were only presented. The law drew no such distinctions ; but if, in the case of often meetings, just and reasonable fear were pro duced, Magistrates were bound to grant all the security they had the power to give. If alai in were generated in the minds of a large mass of the population, it was not a matter of option with Magistrates, they were compelled.to afford th a t p r otection with which the laws invested them.— Magistrates in some parts of the kingdom might have allowed their forbearance to influence them too much—by their imprudent delay they might have put to hazard the public peace, per tor ever ; but it would be a strange perversion of all reasoning to assert, that because too much had been tolerated , ever y thin g onght to be permit ted --(Continued cheers.)—lt would be singular, indeed, to maintain, that because much that was wrong had been allowed in c ertain situetions, that therefore wo degree of alarm, no menace, no dreaded hostility, no danger, however imminent, could justify Magistrates in greeting that protec tion which the law called upon theca to afford.— Therufore, he insisted that not even a prima facie case had been made out for enquiry ; and it was not to be imputed to Magistrates, because they had not been called upon to interferes that they meant to abandon one of the first principles,of the Constitution, and in consequence, that in t o e tore, the King's Commission of the Peace was unaccompenied by any power or arty duty to af fold protection. Whether, upon ts principle, the Alattchester Meeting was or Was not illegal, his Lordship did nas know how to discuss, o n a fornacr night, by his vote (for he was unable to speak) he had expressed his opinion, that it would be most unfit that !rich an enquiry bbould he con ducted by Parliament, and it he thought so theft, was it possible for hint to shot his wars to what was floating in the minds 'of ell who heard hint i When called upon to act, upon arcsonstences, could he limit his views to the sues e statement of pereous engaged on that day in the p a inful scene ? lie dole( not be ignoraat of many facts to which no formal inquiry, no tlicial proof, cnahl give- a contradiction ; hnt as the esse now stand before the world, upon the asst.:thin of persons best calculated to glee cor rect information, he was satisfied that the con duct of the Magistrates was not only free front all blame, hut was most highly meritorious —(Con tinued cheers front the Ministerial benches.)--- They deserved that, which in the result, he trust ed they would receive—a complete and authorita tive approbation of their conduct,—(Cheers.) — Ile raid, a complete and authoritative approba tion, because he could not peisuade himself, that the Letter of the Noble Secretary of State,. on which so much bad been said, was at all calculated to prejudge this question.. lie had, indeed, thought, that w !tile proceedings were pending, while (be Courts of Law were open to all who bad complaints to prefer, nettling could be more injudicioas than the conduct f o.,persons assembled at Coenty meetings, at a great distance front the sceoe where a fair (Tinton might be twilled, bad thonght fit to pursue.—(Cheers.)—lie made this asset lion, because at thw.e meetings, t hooen oo woof was given, no a uthentic information detail ed, and no jurisoictiou to pionounce co nferred, the parties had taken upon themselves to decide d. fi n itively on the qu,rstion, 'to pretutieate the whole case, and to influence, anti distract 'the public mind,--(Repeatcd cheors.)—The situ ation of the Executive Government was widely different. Ministers had a duty to perform, and it would not only'haie been base and'univarthy of men of honour, but a direct 'dereliction of offi cial duty, if they had refused to give what the Magistrates bad a right to ask, if they had with heti! The view the King's Ministers took of the conduct pursued at Manchester. He •en treated the House to consider the reverse of the proposition. Suppose there had b een the most baretaced interference with an ac knowledged right ; that there had been the most wanton employment of the military; that the Magistrates bad abandoned every duty they were - called upon to perform ; in such a case would the House have borne, that .the King's Se cretary of State should have remained silent ? Would it not have iw , isted that be should have told the Magistrates that they had violated the Constitution ; that they had infringed that law they were hound to preserve, and that they bad employed the King's troops aviust those it wits their duty to protect ?—(Cheers.)-If, then, it would have been fit for them to censure, it was not easy to argue that it %vas not their duty to perform the wore grateful task of expressing Ap probation. The question, as related to this brattch of the enquiry, in a great degree identified itett - with the decision of a impact . night : it was, whether on the hers tis they existed, there was sufficient presumption of misconduct on the part of the Magistrates as to induce Parliament to in terpose between them and the ordinary tribunals of justice, on a Charge of SilppOSCO delinquency. And here he must o6erve, that it there was one ins:itution iu this country which could with snore confidence ti.nn any other be presented to foreign nati.nis as a matter of exclusive triumph to she L►iiiisl► name, it was the tnanner in which i►+s lice was administered in this kingdom, especially in counties, - by persons hearing the Kint.t's Com mission of the Peace.—(Vlcar, hear !)—For that leason, not only every c‘indid and liberal man gave the presumption in favour of Magistrates, but the law of the land itself had laid down for WIC construction Of their cowhict, rides more fa vourable than were applied to other i n dividuals who had not similar claims npon the Government and the public. The Magistrates of Manchester were, however, not to rely entitled to that gene. rill presumption, lb that construction ; but be entreated the House to look at the peculiar st- tuation in which they stood, By atrocious and flagitious machinations, that part of the kingdom, Laucashire and Cheshire, was involved in most itntninent peril : the papers on the table, scanty as they were, were sufficient to prove that the danger was not confined to one spot in either of those Counties, but embraced a large portion of both. .j he individuals who bad thus parr distingeithed them,- seltes were jut crested in preserving the peace of their immediate neighhourhoo(l—in guarding their own houses, their own properties, and their own families, WHO) might require their imme diate presence and exertion yet these they aban doned—they discarded private cousiderations —they left their property and their families to the protection of their country, and assembled at Manchester, the i r h, e f sea t o f the evil, and where they could most elf,!ctttally and beneficially apply their exertions.—(Continued cheering.)—Their least thought was personal danger ; Bud did the House think for a moment that the Magistrates were ignorant of the responsibility they were about to incur ? Did they not foresee that it the moment should arrive when they must act for the public safety, every engine of calamity would.he set at work to asperse their motives 611(1 tevile their actions, to prejudice the feelines of the gea nerons people of England, and to direct low ani mosity and vadar abuse against them for mos: ane ritorious and disinterested services ? (Hear, hear !)—lt might be and he, perhaps thought it was in some degree questionable whether the for bearance of Magistrates had - not been too long, too patient, and too indulgent !- 7 --(Hear l) —Had they neglected to act on the Ifith of August as they had acted, they would, in the grossest man ner, have violated their duty, and it wotild have been a matter extremely questionable whether the unfortunate error they would that day !iaVe committed could ever have beets retrieved, Had they refused to listen to the tears of the inhabitants 00 that day, his Lordship was not bold enough to • assert that any sub sequent opportunity would have been af forded' for remedying „that fatal mistake. The slaps taken by the Magistrates, however merito rious, not proving sufficient (and who could hope they would be) to allay the turbulent anti insur rectionary spirit fotneuting in so Wide a district, it became necessary to assemble Parliament to provide the means of future safety ; and lie put it to the "louse what appearance it would have exhibited to the country and to Europe, if at this moment of danger and alarm, its first suspi cion had been turned aside from those who had disturbed the public peace, and direct ed against those who had preserved it 1-- (Uear, hear, hear !)—Were the first persons to be denounced, not the savage depredatois of the flock, but its faithful guardians, St ho (lad defend ed it at every hazard ? He had heir(' oi many in• stances of public ingratitatde-ffhistory was tall of services unrequited ; but its extended page conld not exhibit au instance parallel to that which would have stained it, had Parliament listened to the suggestions .of those, who, while the wiclirti disturbers escaped with implied epprohation,woold have compelled upright and Houourable Gentle men to defend that conduct which thrir ditty commanded, and their honour excied.—(Chee;:: rota all sides.)—lf they bad committed any etrnr, the experience of the last 24 hours proved that Courts of Justice '-%a're open to tilt: aggrieved) and that Magistrates might he called upon tt, justify the steps they hall taken. The Courts were open in every lotm : every sum , et of the realm night resort to them, anti m i g ht b e sine that his , complaints would be beard, ,tentif moved, would be redressed. If Parliament conteutcd, he would tell the Housr: what would be the reatit.--- It would teach the Magistracy that its times of trial they tumid not rely either on the Government or the Legislatute (cuntiaucd eheets) : that alter Laving made many sacrifices to discharge a rrAffo. flit duty, they wereJewarded at last by unjust ittka. potations and harrassing The influence of that CXdinpie would tend to, disarm that branch of the publiri authority, that arm of public power, on which maitaly, perhaps more than any other, at this mo ment rested OM peace and security of the realm. If on such an occasion Parliament could so conduct itself, he hoped that spirit would be.found iu the ":,lagist racy to appeal against the injustice cf that decision, even to Parliament i tse lf— to call upon it to review its vote ;to ap peal to the common law of the land, to which the Magistrat'l and Parliament were alike subject. Still ht did not doubt., that even under this re proach, honest and tearless men might be found to fill the office, and discharge its painful func tions, though they might be compelled to act under circumittances of doubt, dismay, and depres sion. Ile could not help remarking on the dan gerous attempts.that were made to throw 1)111)14' odium on another most valuable branch of the pub lic service, and to which he looked as most im portant—the preservation of the public peace of the Country. Their Lei dshipi knew with what per severance every , thing that was calltd blame able i t , t h ese e i rcums t u n c es was charged against the Armed Yeomanry, and the object of those who at tempted to make this impression on the mind of the public could not be doubt , ed. . The very same' spirit (ruin which had proceeded the attempts to intimidate the Ma gistrates, was endeavouring to intimidate the yro, Inanity also; but those attempts, he truved, would not prove successful, because much of the safety of the country depended, iu his opinion, upon the conduct of the yeomanry. It was, in deed, one of the cireumitences to which he look ed back with the greatest satisfaction, now, when he had arrived at the close of his political life, that no exertion had been remitted on his part in pre . - (noting the establishment of such armed associa tions. lie conceived that these persons were armed for the defence of their own property, as well as the protection of the public safety, under the sanction of the fundamental principles of the Constitution. He conceived) they were armed for ' purposes which every good man lutist approve, and for which every loyal man, ought to be ready to come forward. if there were any petson s against arming the yeomanry, it eras those who en d e avoured to iuffame. the public against thwe to whom it could best look for relief in its distress. He would ask their Lordships, if they were solicitous, as he_ believed them to ,be, to relieve the distress of the suffering popula tion, whether tha firs; thing to be done for that purpose was not to secure the, public peace, tyith out which that b,nvfi;. of time, to which he look ed forward with confidence, although be did not expect it to arrive so soon as the Noble Lord an ticipated, could never be realized. It there were any persons who endeavoured to inflame the pub lic, and to seduce the' people from habits of peace land industry, as appeared to be the case, trout the number of persons who were, trout appre hension of danger, retiring trout trade, and quit , . 'lug the places where they could no longer ern ploy their industry in peace and seetni:y. ; if ther,e were such persons, :here could he no doubt that: their object was to dcrive advantage trout the sufFerings which they endeavoured. to aggravate. lie bad cont:cived-it to be his Outy to offer these remarks at this eventful crisis, when attempts were making to subvert the Constitution of the (:) , IntrY• That Constitution. had grown op to its present excellence under events and circum stances far beyond the power of man to controul and he must be wise, iodeed, who thought he mild amend it by any pre-conceived theories." VIRFS.--.Yesterday morning, at two - o'clock, a fire broke out in the in emises.of Messrs. Gray and Hull, chair and bedstead manufacturers, ot No. 2, Newman-street, Oxtord-street, which commenced by some s havings catching fire in the wolkshop ; It was discovered w it a i te l t! i t i l ) r f e d! f ' l c a Y m ' e a s n w d er b e y p i r li e u ev u n s ;:r f t a tro g r ° ll " sex'tTri;(llYinogf, but a considera y b e l c e Lfi t s t e tl e, t ,l l l l , e l premises and 3 e outl)t s t lt o c h k e o d f es A i l n r ) . Wright, linen draper, of Foley•place, Maryiebune, about eleven, o'clock on Wednesday night, in consequence of kt spark having caught some of the light furnitute in the shop. The flames had spread to a Coos i.. .:Icr able eAteilt before the fire was discovered. Several engines arrived on the spot very apt eddy. Bu d it w a s owing to the active exertions of the firemen that the whole premises were n o t de stroyed; Considerable damage was - done to the lower part of the house and property. The following., circumstance should operate with persons as a caution against the careless discharge of fire-anus, in the vicinity of houses or gardens: —On Wednesday last, as Mt Hurst, ot Eliza beth-place, Kennington, was amusing himself in his guider), the back part of which adjoins s - open field, a person passing by discharged e fowl- ' ing•picce carelessly against the garden-fence,.* great part of the charge passed over the paling*. and several of the shots struck Mr. Hurst in the leg ; fortunately, howevr, their force was so fat exhausted that they barely penetrated the skin, and tint him no material injury. 'file person who had acted thus incautiously, in thrf mean time (14.. 'l)peared, wholly unconscious how by his crimi nally careless conduct he had rhus endangered the personal safety, if not the life, of a Jellow . creature. On the 4th inst. at his house in Fitzrov-scpaare, the Lad, of Charles Snell Chauncey, Esq. of a still-burn liiAßtlt ED. Yeterclav, at St. Nlarg - Lret'3, ‘Vestaiint:ter, Mr. Samuel sl,,phercl, of Clielsta Colleice, eldest son of the Iler. 11, SioVierd, of Randagh Chapel, Chelsea," to Mary, cities& daughter of J. Esq. of,Sloaite-square. DIED. Or the 31st tilt. Mrs. lary 2tlahe, relict of the late Mr. Philip Blalie, Of Queen-street, Cheapiide, wine-merchant. O Tuesday, the 41h inst. in her 70th year, Mrs. Jan` her, at her son ' s house, in Savage-gardens. LONDON: Printed by J. B. CARSTAIRS, of No. 29, Grog Ormond -stroA, Quutln-siinare; aiad published lid W. ( 1 ' SCRIVI'S, of No. 7, South Nlolton-street, at THF 'if ()thee, No. 11 , 2, S4and where Advertisements, Ote, Sxt Letters, &c. (past-paid) must be alcires;cd, r2 l " ' I t ' Liqt _ ; 41 ,?/ci • 11", .t~1( ~.. .tt Q P. 4~ M t ^ A ~~