The Sun. — London, England, 1842-03-05 00:00:00

rrfere 0 gnai : , But if incursions should be made into the territory ies tha . 7.;;,...;.10:11Yt of Spain, army, and if money should be raised by G e es_s_losa vernments, to support the war against the existing Cc ,olifferent olic shthoenli country.—(bcCh 1 P.?, rtrnent offer: Y u ' . if r. 11,, perhaps, it might be advisable pu eer re s. u ) ed on the part of the tole Eel 0 , t 1.,`-' `,ONNELL said flat if he had misunderstood the VT • "'uteurable Baronet rst the head of the Government, he . sure t o It . . ; Io 1 . 0 dust of a c get Honourable glionoureible Gentleman would he obliged a•- e, 0,,t• affording him an opportunity of explanation. He time in Aienell) had nn derstood the Right Hoourable Gen -6 decided approval of the general c on- Itgli t he Pressent Government of Spain. He hoped the tete, Honourable 1 which that baronet did not approve of the cruel perse -1 cle 'fil i n et i. Government was carrying on against the 13 r he e„,„ . T I Y tar the clergy belonging to the Carlist party, aga, he e;?,ll'iat complain of the laws being enforced, but ''seen, e,,,,t'T'gy who had remained true to their legitimate la lirt to -- ;: i " -had held high situations in her service ; he tol e'? eAI orgy ti t he Archbishop of Toledo, as an instance. e ve : - `a 1 had been subjected to the most cruel persecu- Tht' 'liallwroh,been passed. for seizing the temperalites of the iiti es - i , * had b'' l eaving only a nominal allowance to the clergy. ; . it t h eu carried into effect as regarded the ternpora ki;Tail lof ne alhavrances had been forgotten. He did not %I .'" h 1 4 ; 1; it was matter of internal regulation, with Pres de e i se4 had 40 right to interfere. But it appeared that it Pere l . 11\1.1nake the clergy assist in the conveyance of this k g . its 00 1 '", althollgh they would not oppose the law tak • rd, tb e . ,.• ; they objected to taking any active part in assist. mouser tr i l lr ePtnee cif the property trom the Church ; and , i t orce them to join in these conveyances, some t al i e , , Pies s o 11 f, them had been immured, and while w h, , tir . ea ',, had been subjected to the i greatest cruel ...,,e''', iiiejsew:hey would not actively join in that 6 4.1 t a s still l'e prepare„i passively to submit to. The knits; II hero,. stronger, because, when the parties were ices • at fi r : the Courts of Justice they were allowed a krs 4 p art ,;t, .and when they were . allowed, the trial of the ly e ' bi•ou g i t ' t s t did not terminate until the counsel themselves 14.11 4 the e ,„ L 'efore the tribunals, and punished for being 4 It . ',c) age, tu ,... tie did not wish to trespass on the time of te, , 4 ' to prove' if ) iie were to apply for a Committee he would e s , ;` l l .i f the unrelenting cruelty of Espartero in that l e , ( t s i e °hi es ! re volution were about to take place, and if it lathe le C o di"a establish one religion in the place of another, at i i, Pre p t o should not interfere ; hut the proceedings II" ti t , ' l it- ease rather resembled the Jacobinism of France Q a tY re t , siste,te.deif:tbe National Assembly.—(Hear, hear, . hear.) the Ch 1 for ae l w no respect. It was not the substituting ono ee, eit Sr s h t;:°ther; but it was the giving of the property . of 1i,„. , ,,ti i ., , the military, and the treating the clefg!: with a t , '-'e At i "e c omplained of. He thought that if the Right le e i u le' s e tw ain were aware of all the circumstanees he would 4 ie 4 f ° „., 11 such proceedings; but it was vain to apply to the , t ta t , liej • or ' e P . ai r, o, and he was sure that he would be able to sal v hl , Iv' Committee of the House the truth of the facts sks!Rnet I a ( j i i he hoped that the British Government would not :, t,,, Government ef Espartero. to , 'EI. said he did not express any opinion with re "eses'eti ts iso artl : ul ar acts of the Spanish Government. Nothing (k t tia am or so presumptuous in him as to adopt such a 8 , Ilt trfe r ,„• W Quid adhere to the course he always adopted of tes;;li e . o - ,4 with the particular acts of other Governments.— htir' hey ,;• 1 Soon alter they came into office they found a th, : h i ; bfes'eitxreet,ted against the Government of Esartero, he i „'Fset of ,".e two Governments friendly relations existed, to ,J tie wh ich conspiracy was to meet in the dead of night o ') ~ attack on the palace of the Queen of Spain, and to ss 'thele h er person. If that attack had succeeded, the ~, s t jeo-elPri of Spain would have been placed in the 4 4 s ` l l' ie 1)4.11 Y, and the British Government felt, though not Ist eht " a a it w ee a r . ,lfermity with the law of nations, it was their ki ss eei ns. , of all Governments between which friendly re %,;41 ate \v. ° di to do every thing in their power to diseounten ts 4, !lite,. s i eked efforts, and that such scenes as took place in let s t 11ei,.,'" be discouraged-_( Hear, hear)—and they felt it * et a lt !att u i _tity to give every aid to the ' Government of Espar )tee' e i, e q. Purposes; but with respect to particular acts, he iiiet clann either approbation or disapprobation of the 4 e IP; ien to in them. —( Hear, hear.) leop -m t tit I i I I MICK was much relieved by the answer which ,t , le it at t 01 , ° 9• Baronet h a d g i ven to t h e question which had i. „': d t t "'le, becau se , t h e Ri ght Hon. Baronet stated it to eshil t esu7inination not to interfere directly in the affairs or anl a object derwestie arrangements of Spain, but that it would ea tti Is 4,, and his wish to increase generally the advantages 11 es t, °ee 7 r es'S of that country which, he hoped, would always Is t " . betiL° friendly alliance with England he (Mr. Borth- I N . tre r e ' r eti that the - whole statements made with reference p it Issilasktion, were exageerated • it was pretty well known 1 I tts, aP e' s V i tt Don Cados'had, on ' his own part and on the Ila s j,'lli et th enerals disavowed all intention whatever to inter % s,!'eet ts a Y would abstain from any measure which had for . ti 'leen 7 upsetting of the present Government of Spain, or 1 1 1 , al 4 Its stead any ether form of Government. The L a e wealth its ha s „ of Spain was almost without limit, her moral f teed e rY great, her internal wealth and internal moral Vs N ie. d hav e (i . itself developed themselves greatly for the interest ' l l'l lt , 'Pale) 11 , greatly for the advantage of Europe if that coun . eh N I I . a.,u been left to settle her own affairs, according ke t ewlek i 441 04 lons , ago.—( Hear, hear.) What he (Mr. tkis'tee4 Protested against was, that there should be any :t ? . , ° I S , '4l the Dart of England in the settlement of those tt % a id p ese A ln• If - England sympathised with that country, S, a t he' `u, Pathise with her as a nation. 1.1 England held t % ~, ' lh a l. t l l i 'L ef generous friendship to Spain, it was impos ay.,ae e e Prophesy of the Right Hon. Baronet should not %e h ', ths-sri s atisfactorily realised. He (Mr. Borthwick) Mein eten't‘whatever influence could be legitimately used by tit t fele rte ene °v ernment would be exerted for the purpose of lis: eget i on "' to the persecutions of the clergy of Spain, and tk t I tal fac -1e1a.13 would be exerted without reference to any fie, ). IN ntit'h whatever. He considered that the Spanish I W, er e 'se'n'ducted them . selves with great credit, and that kts eel44l,4tillecl to ever protection.—( Hear. ) e / W the (3 •C- had onl - Y one observation to make with re ‘st erk. "ebservations) cf the Hon. and Learned Member Likish`oe Branthought it was somewhat exaggerated to say e s t o„ eiv,:h clergy had been treated in the same manner -. ' t -. ‘ i tl' !:' ' r Fr awce were durin the French Revolution. a sl a tes s ._ like the HOtt• and Learned g Gentleman to name an tstliedl4which the blood of any clergyman, or of any other k t ‘i t t rgyr ea e : „ailed, except in the heat of the late conflict. It esse s - had been bayonetted or shot as in the Jacohini 147'tatetoen?f the Freneh - Revolution. He protested against 1 titreottici pr s ,: : And he , he if the Hon. and Learned Gentle i‘st ' CPCo]& 4 ',,_na,t he had stated that he would do so. . 1 4 5, Cif Eepa rter :tee. said he had referred to the general con wl• i V kal 4 tI; lbat f , tow ar d s t h e Church • it was precisely the spirltuaine 9 - se Ja • ' the+. cobinical Government of France, namely, t. tevertirnent complete master of the Church, ts,hs eis, te ,Y aid ter n N I , a *liSen if h ?ovally. The Hon. and Gallant Mem - ''' 'ihe .1 he su pposed there had not been a massacre at'lel eLskys,c,,e„rgY to Alad i 1 . tit;r,,ttier that"l-4"S said, he believed he should not be wrong tie 7 ri there was toed in which no less than He 1,,,, 1. 1 "1 , been put ath, by being thrown over a ki t' ti ,, "s'e felt great sfactio e n in hearing that the principle '•i.l.l,lerference would bo adhered to, and he trusted the tli i r';eti 4 ; .seho had introduced the question, would also feel t eli! ' , l 'tom the fact, that there would be no more quad anees, and no more British Legions.—( Hear. ) tt ~:!' 11, p t , CORN BILL. +y sue et s ' - ,PAL said, he had determined to move the second "ts a l 'ue Corn Bill on Wednesday next instead of Mon -1 ! seost convenient day. V4 O THE NAVY ESTIMATES. k u r, %. THE then went into a Committee of Supply, and li,tki. bIIERBERT rose to bring forward the Navy Esti 'ti 'le th )0 1 i e, h ought he should best consult the convenience of 4 4,; 11 ei1,b Y not going into eeery detail of the estimates now O tt, si lt th ut he. mould merely give a general view of the diffe il that estineates, and an explanation of the increase and b N te tt au• iold a et is taken place in them, as compared with the olititl,), ar4;(.3sut...yea.r ; he' should alse explain as fully as Ir m 11 31,,, t tie of the alteratient that had taken place. He i t . fs t. 0 etate the alteration in the number of men re kl It the Nav Y . d• h • • and state %4_ bel low _ e as ( Jrnpare with last year , , 11to thi. county of the general opinion that ships ought not is st ° tlii,,'ithntry except with their full complement ; to. I t I Pte ted e Y preserved the same number of men, it must kit ertleits all that „ there must be a smaller number of ships. )liar I , l fith, L'e had heard, from the best naval authorities, he 4 s vy l 'aul t t h?-t a reduction in the number of ships, and no o t , I N ,' he number of men, would not make the Oti lt° , *fficient in maintainino• peace, than a til t 4 e 1 '-' • regard ki P. te r -ess efficiently manned. With :lkir,. 4 t • 'ed head, there was a small diminution lil t ," t i t, 4'1_,11 consequence of the increased price of provisions. :' 4 lll . ae,e. elaur alty-office there was a further increase ren -41'4,.. -office by superannuations, but the increase was very is t eild l / 4 ',U, ai d regardi to the Registers%office there was no 011 1 ue e n , w nen he came to that head in the estimates,he iN A N anted ive the House some information. i t * t i t h ee e ot had been made in the scientific department, in 4 1) 4 silt additional surveys and printing scient:fic works. t eti7 t a ex t t hat the House would not grudge any money that t 'es t klie a t li e P er ided for such a purose. Upon the establish . s tt 4144111 e there had been p a small decrease. Upon the 1, 1',' 14 t I tal I t k tS ew ab toad there had been an increase of 1,000 . 1 t . t ae pt e k Ise a small decrease upon works at home, bu 4: t,t th lt e k.s . Z o ltl works abroad to the extent of 1,900/. „ c it i , iti .e • h 1,000/• extra for artisans. In naval 1,., p t i e °a of thanebeen a slight decrease not from any . 4 . l l .Nig:' ' Ni,,,quantity of stores, but from a diminution 1 ~1,,e1i the y th "" he was upon the head of stores t ;:,er th e atom s he believed there never was any year iu t ~:ia.e,, head ' were in a better state than at present. t ee t egiie lo - ". i.2f machinery there was 10,0001. extra for e n t r Y e si a'ai }l , Ihe next item on which he had to make any L 'i tle; r ` l e di - " at of . New Works. On this head there was e:_ l tishesee t , , once in the estimates of last year and those ' w 1.1,, the s,L'ars At Woolwich there had been built a large ‘f,r4ltte, „tali, toiliv!etting t 4 r tie e ," ili t 's•Pos e... eof docking steamers to be repaired. There ees: alsel° f Pre'" s um expended on engines, &c. for the fires in dockyards. The Government ta )1 W la tervice a sum of 10,0001. surplus of last year Wei, 11 %, Ltdee to c pl . h those works. Another source I' s [Me; 1 0 1 l s ev;e:i ti l ti e la a yin e r down l of pipes and several tanks for iietkll3, kiss es or ° tkyards, for the purpose of having access to ds the absence Nis „etel!sent sernergency. In some dock eh is, l lie n , or nY fire fora great length of time had engen the 41 0 43 4 o ,` negligence in that respect; so much so that hel me 1 4 th en "a're forgotten where the water-cocks were , 4:4 gee be -°se cocks were so covered with timber that before du at he !nt at in cases of fire, the flames would have qtv, -- q,,,,_4, r ialss. The whole expenditure on this head al, ru e 'ltit te '""ui. The House would see, however, that_ 1 v et - ,I. reared a large expenditure, it was economy in the iqt y , expenses on forges for making anchors was i:' i the ' : l o tte l t i.r.lesable. There was also an additional slip k ta l , ( 144 4 'lath. It was necessary to make a great outlay at 3e 'ltke r ' b ecaus the soil and RI, eat ~ n ee t ,_ se was . gradually giving way, RI, i , 4 41 10 ,, He wharf -wall inclined out towards the seain tif`„tl se e 't oi l e 'u ll , manner. It was well known that a ship le ( .1 r uin , - S "P lasted much loner than if she were not. .o tt , elk , 1 ollaneous estimates there g would appear an increase kf 22 ' „,4,.?r the l • belt , takenf part of the expenses of last 4 41 1 . leuty. e I h. s alf-yagy list the o r r e would appear an increase tialishry th e .4 the estimates for freight for the army 1 . or the „..tko lta in v er_ ease was nearly 44,000/. For the I t i N % "eat i ii.. ,.'en there was an increase of 20.000_ _ ../..• b a tee„,e Ist .6, u'a contract there would be required 240,00(u• 't r - form "!3' , instead of 80 000/. as voted by the last Par eelllll4 ° t l . Th. ‘,B:tltltttii,l:4 Iszoevoilo.tis three Months. This was in order that a be placed on those entering into this e -pt t . ot ° colt ls concluded the estimates for the year. He ii, t ' tall there the House with any further observations, ex tll , it ek . w akt t etii i %o w , .. entum to the fact, that there were other IN arid th u.1e , 1 in those which did not properly belong to th e Il lae rei at In votir, six millions, they were not voting that Ili i s at, n4 t f °r the Ns g ' k'eli t pa - wee, f or tia a'pri He found that the expendituret e , in v ii; w as near' theory, year, Was 640,000 e, a sum h w e h a i r la its °l3O / e Present Yas large as its revenue.—( Hear, .• ) p„, e for the estimate there wasincluded for troop-ships, il lkt ill ie llt, 10„ r ,,,_artny and ordinance 247,0001., for the home eeo eo "e bst • 'A/. Now in conclusion, he would state, tei . alp-, . i mates had been framed with the strictest view to t t wnteh there • qe redore „es eoirements of the public service would per *hike, wa g nothing oftarge amount which could possibly 4r had g ' and e Apt, wo alw a y s , ! trusted that that liberality e Ale' 114 114 been displayed towards this great national e,,e4er the be wanting on that occasion. The Hon. es,,,gliles"a.olnoved that 43,000 men be employed during the p t ;`l,_ 2 . 0 00 Z•rf r the sea service, including 10,000 Royal Marines, ofte.seitt ...t4z41.73!.--.1 jotthiedquestiori having been put that the pre the tiaolly iposliEtinonrtnoset: and saij, that he did not mean to :433 aritl'iutae,ntlemen. r orate i p 3 t p us a i r e t, of h t e h t e h e o s u t g im ht ate th s a m t i o f ved the b r y e skew e r' wern!nt desirable in those estimates, it was that .11,..e.0_U1d not refrain eel 7,te conaiderably increased in justice both to officers from' complimenting the prc. )1► ~ 1 ~ .~" ~n .;~ f ' Pr • •.," 0 .11 1- • isoi! to he 3.0 THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING. MARCH 5,184 k. other point he wished to refer to was a subject not generally known in that House. In ;835 a report got about that all the masts of the British navy were rotten.—( Laughter.) He found that after twenty years a survey was made in 1836, and the report Was that those masts *ere Unserviceable, and were very properly taken out of the ships, and put into a different department. Now this proved very bad management. Ile came then to the construction of the ships in the service. If they happened to have a good surveyor, they generally built good ships ; but if they had a bad surveyor, which had often happened, they built very indifferent ships. The building cf those ships was given to one man, whether he was clever or not. The present surveyor constructed excellent ships, but Sir Wm. Symmonds pat in most ridiculous sterns. Mr. Greg, of Pertsmouth Dock-yard, and Mr. Ray, all ridiculed this stern ; and it was impossible for them to bear eight, ten, or twelve guns on the quarter. Every ship that had been built under Str William Symmonds, had this ridiculous stern, and it was necessary to unship these before before they could fire a single gun. They were supported by an iron board, or else they would fall into the water. If they measured the Queen on the lower deck, they would find that she was thirty-six feet longer on the poop than down below. He believed that those sterns had been condsnened.as improper ; and he thought great credit was due to the Admiralty fur their conduct in reference to them. He was extremely obliged to the House fur the at tention with which they had listened to his remarks. Captain RODS said be believed that there had always been but one desire in that House !in reference to the Royal Navy, namely, to render it as efficient as possible; but their endea vours had been frustrated by the Lords of the Admiralty, n - ho, instead of being, as they ought to have been, its protectors, had ben its greatest enemies. He had grievous faults to find with the Admiralty ; and his authority for venturing to express his opinion was, that having:commanded in her Majesty's service for ten years, he was in possession of facts from which he drew the inference that no service had been more neglected than the Royal Navy since 1815. Now, be would begin with the state of her Majesty's ships. From 1815 to 1825 and 1826, the Admiralty kept on building old ten gun brigs, like those formerly used, most ridiculous corvettes, which would hardly stand up under canvas, donkey frigates, which were designated " Forty thieves."—( Hear, hear.) The Duke of Portland, and other leading personages, at length forced the Admiralty to build a better class of vessels. Sir William Symmond's model was peculiarly adapted for brigs and cot vet tes ; but when that model was first introduced, it was thought to be so perfect, that it would answer for all vessels from the brig to the 120 gun ship. He had always thought that as they in creased the size of the vessel and the tier of the guns, they must proportionally increase the flatness of the floors. The model answered very well for brigs and corvettes, but not for larger vessels. When Sir W. Symmonds built his vessels, he gave them lofty bows, which made them good sailers when not heavily laden. He (Captain Rous) found it necessary on one occasion to bring down his ship two feet lower in the stern, and by doing so, he rendered the vessel somewhat easy; arid for doing that he was found fault with by the Admiralty. But the thing most to be la mented, was the failure of the steamers. The Gorgon steamer was built to carry 1,200 troops in case of war, and if, with that number on board, and the number of guns allotted to her, she fell in with a heavy gale, there was great probability of her being lost. The ships were made without any pains being taken whether they would succeed or not; and he believed that it arose in some measure from the fact that many officers of the Navy, whatever ships they were apppointed to, would always fancy their ships were the best in the world.— (A laugh.) They would cry up their virtues, and take care to conceal their defeats. He remembered that after Sir William Symmond's improvements had been introduced, three ships, the Inconstant, the Castor, and the Pique were to be tried, .and the last was to be taken as a model. But what happened? Six new sister Piques were built before the trial was made, but there were no more In constants or Castors. The race was thus decided before the horses were saddled.—( A laugh.) The present system of promotion in the Navy was decidedly objectionable. There were at present 500 or 600 Mates in the . service , in wh om " hope deferred had made the heart sick.' —( Hear, hear.) There were a number of Lieutenants waiting for promotion until they had become almost superannuated. Old officers again were always preferred for the command of vessels ; so that a man who had been perhaps twenty years on shor e , arid who could not probably pass a midshipman's examina tion, was appointed to the command of an 80 gun ship and 800 men.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") That was what they called common sense.—( Hear, hear, hear.) They had expected to have been much benefited by the Na val and Military Commission which had sat in 1839, and the condition of Lieutenants and Mates had been somewhat bene fitted. Before that Commission the half-pay of a Lieutenant had been bs. 6d. a day, and his full pay 6s. 6d. ; the half-pay of a Mate had been 55., and his full pay 6s. Now the outfit of a Lieutenant cost at least 100/., and for that they gave him the magnificent remuneration of 6s. 6d. a day. But what had the Commission done for the higher rank of officers? In the year 1832, the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary cf State for the Home Department had taken away part of their prize money from Captains, without awarding to them any increase of pay. Now, all that the Commission had done for there was to allow them, when fitting out their ships, to take their plate and table-linen from the Dock-yards, paying 10 per cent. per annum for the use of it—a favour which, he apprehended, any friend would do them. With regard to the Admirals, all they had done was to turn between 60 or 70 yellow Admirals to the active list. Now, with regard to the employing of old officers, he would point to the Mediterranean fleet, and he would ask if that fleet was in a proper state of discipline? He was told that it was not. He would ask, was the fleet regu larly manned, was it fit for active service ? What could be the state of discipline when the midshipmen on board a line of-battle ship, who had been prevented from going on shore because on former occasions they had misconducted them selves by exceeding their leave, had rowed about the fleet with a flag representing a negro in chains, to show the cruelty and tyranny with which they had been treated ?—( Hear, hear.) While he was on the subject, he would just allude to a case which had been most improperly made a subject of my s t er y. He disliked mystery ; it looked as if there was something to he hid.—(Cheers.) He alluded to the case of Mr. Elton. He had been informed that Sir. Elton had been turned out of the ship commanded by the Gallant Member for Gloucester, when Mr. Williams was First Lieutenant ; and when he afterwards met Mr. Williams at the social board, and made the request to him to take a friend on slier@ in his boat, it would appear that, from the length of time which had elapsed since they had been shipmates, that Mr. Elton had no right to make such a request, as they were placed on a very different footing towards each other from that which they had previously been. Mr, Elton had been advised by his senior officers to make an apoolgy, buthe had refused to do so. He had afterwards offered to make an apol gy but it was considered too late. He (Capt. R.) would not take upon himself to say when:an apology was offered it should be re. jetted. but it was considered in that case that the apology came too late, and it was decided that Mr Elton should be tried by a Court-martial, the consequence of which every one knew must be, that ho must be dismissed the service. The Mates and others were going to give him a jubilee, but in order to pre vent that scandal—and he hoped, if possible, he might be con tradicted as to the fact if it were possible—the officers on the Court-martial ordered him six months' imprisonment; and he was sent on board of a ship to receive his punishment, not in close arrest, as should have been the case, but in open arrest, and the consequence was, he grossly misconducted himself on board. lie went on the quarter-deck, where he should not have gone, and told the officer in command that he was a liar, and used other disrespectful terms. But when he came home the Board of .Admiralty, considering him an unfortunate culprit who had already suffered enough, discharged him from the custody to which he was subjected by the sentence of the Court-martial. But if it had been a person without education, who dared to make use of such language, or send a challenge to Isis superior officer, he would now be on his way to a penal settlement, or be hanged at the yard-arm. If he (Captain Rous) were on a Court-martial, and if a doubt existed with regard to the amount of punishment to be awarded, he would throw the doubt into the scale of the greater punishment rather than allow the discipline of her Majesty's Navy to be broken. The Mates and the Midshipmen were all go verned by the system of rewards and punishments- It was a fact, that many officers were anxious to prevent Sir J. Pechel's plan being carried into effect. In the year 1812, before the American war, it was stated by all the naval sages then in the House, that it was impossible for an 18-gun frigate to contend with one of 20 guns ; but at that very moment the fact was being disproved. When he was in one of her Majesty's vessels, in 1811, they chased the French frigate Chloine, into Brest, and fired five to every four shots fired by the enemy. All that he wanted was, to impress on th e H ouse t h e necess i ty o f employing efficient men. He was trading on sacred ground. as h e was about to refer to a Gallant Officer, but he had des- - cribed the state of the Mediterranean fleet, and how necessary it was to have men of energy and activity for that service ; and he was obliged to say that the Gallant Officer about to take that command, will have been sixty-seven years in her Ma jesty's service next August. He could not help, feeling that it was cruel to drag men full of years and honours, from their re tirement, and appoint them to such a command. And what excuse could the Admiralty make for it? Why, this—they would tell them that it ' was Necessary to have an officer of a certain rank to take the command in the Mediterranean, in the event of being obliged to co-operate with a foreign force. The excuse was ridiculou s an d c hildi s h , f or h er M a j esty i n Council could at any time order an officer to hoist a flag of any rank her Majesty pleased. But he believed that the Ad miralty thought the virtue lay its the flag, and not in the zeal and energy of the man whose rank it denoted. Did they fancy that that flag, when it fl u tt ere d i n t h e b reeze, would -restore the circulation to the aged veins of the Commander? And when, in a dead calm, it hung clinging to the mast, must it not be considered a n em bl em o f strength decayed, as when it shook in the gale it might be taken as an emblem that the chieftain was about to depart ? If he had been the adviser of the First Lord of the Admiralty, he would not have placed a fine building on a ruined arc h, even t h oug h t h at arch was twined with ivy and covered with laurel. lie had drawn up a plan for the improvement of the Navy, which had appeared in the newspapers, and therefore he should not trouble the House with it, as any one might make himself acquainted with its cen , ents. His object was, that commissions should not be granted by the Admiralty to the influence of a great man, but that something of an equivalent should be paid for it, that of obtaining an efficient officer, without adding to an already (wet burdened list.—( Hear, hear.) In the promotions of Lieutenants, the promotion should be given to those who had served the greatest number of years afloat; and as these were selected by their Captains, who were the best judges, they would be better selected than they could be by the Admiraltp. They put the young men on the shelf, and drew out the old me — They eemed to forget that they could afford to do what we right, but they could not afford to do what was wrong. As for expenditure, they knew that the clergy received ono-fourth of the rental of this country.—(Opposition cheers and laughter, and cries of " One-fifth.") Well, one-fifth would suit his ar gument as well. They had Crown officers, law officers, &c., munificently paid; but they could not afford to pay the naval officer. But would the prayer of the priest, and the pleadings of the lawyer, stop the bullet? No. They must depend - for their defence on the strong arm and daring valour of the soldier and the seaman—they must depend upon those men who conquered kingdoms in every part of the world, and brought this little island to the highest pitch of glory. His object was to bring other officers forward, in order that they might follow in the steps of their predecessors in glory. It was his duty to. bring forward this subject. Shafts of calumny might fly about his head, but they would pass unheeded, and the good things might be remembered. He would finish in the words of the old song : " Then oh, protect the British tar, Be mindful of his merit ; And when again you're plunged in war, sent Board of Admiralty in their wise and judicious plan of fully maning the British men-of-war..—( Hear, hear.) Go to what part of the world the British navy now might go, they would have no disgrace to fear as they were at present manned. —( Hear, hear.) It was the opinion of various officers and civilians that it would be better to have mete ships and fewer men—that it would be better to have five vessels undermanned than to have four vessels on full euniplement. Now he ( Sir C. N.) was of a different opinion. Experience had proved that when an emergency arose, it was impossible to find men to put yes. seas in full efficiency with the promptitude that might he re quired. That had been shown in the course of the operations on the coast of Syria, where the ships were improperly manned, and where all the efforts of the Government could not enable them to complete the ships then in service in the Meditere ranean. If they had been attacked at that time, unmanned as they were, it would be exceedingly difficult to say what the con sequences might have been. But when the fleet was afterwards further impaired by deaths and disease, he really tho ug ht th at if they had fallen in with the enemy they would have run great risk of being beaten.—( Hear. ) He thought that in such times as these no British ship should be sent to sea improperly manned. He believed that the French Government intended to keep up twenty sail of the line : eight at sea, four its road, and eight in harbour. It seemed that the British Government had deter s:mined on reducing six sail of the line. He doubted whether the present were a moment for effecting such a reduction. But that was a question for the Government, undertaken by them on their own responsibility, and with whirls the Admiralty had nothing to do. With regard to the Board of Admiralty, when that part of the service came before the House, he should state his opinion with regard t.o it. He should say he was not at all favourable to the present state of the service. He believed it was well known that all our superior officers were new of such an age as to be nearly superannuated. Our Admirals in parti cular were arrived at such an age that, with the excep tion of one or two of them, it would be impossible to expect ' that they could discharge their duty as efficiently as they would in earlier life have dune ; and as for the greater part of them, it would be absolutely necessary to send out nurses with them to take care of them.—(Loud laughter.) We had at present but few officers under 70 years of age to command our fleets. Although he had the highest opinion of the gallant officer who was going out to take the command in the Mediterraitean, yet still he could not but remember that the gallant officer was seventy-two years of age ; and although he no doubt was per fectly able to perform the duties of Admiral in the Mediterra nean in time of peace, yet he (Sir C. Napier) would contend that it was physically impossible for any man, seventy-two years of age, to do the tlnty of Admiral in time of war. If he looked at the list of Rear-Admirals, he found that but little better; and if they went upon the present system, it would be almost impossible to have an Admiral under sixty years of age. Now, he would ask, was that right ? He would next allude to the; injustice which had been done the Navy at. the last pro motion ; but in what he was about to say, he begged to be understood not as desiring to bring the Army clown to the level of the Navy, but:to raise the Navy up to ;the Army. Before that pmmotion there were 171 flag officers, and 346 General Officers; there were 693 Post Captains, 779 Commanders, and. 809 Colonels and 735 Majors. At the promotion seventy-four Colonels had been made General Officers, making a total of 420 General Officers, while there were only 40 Post Captains made Admirals. Now he considered that was great injustice to the Navy, and this was still more apparent when they came to consider 51 Commanders only had been made Captains, while 77 majors had been made Lieut.-Colonels. He had understood that the reason given for this injustice was, that an Admiral cost the country more than a General ; but he could show that that idea was a fallacy. The additional expense of a General officer over a Colonel was 1991. 155., while that of a Rear- Admiral over a Post-Captain was that of 1911. 12s. 6d. Before the last promotion, the expense of the Admirals had been 95,0001. a year ; after that it had been 105,0001., being an ad dition of 10,0001. The 'expense of the Generals had been 85.000/. a year before, and 93,0001. a year after the promotion ; but it was only a small part of the expense of the General Officers. The General Officers had most of the regiments. There were 130 re g iments, and, valuing then at 1,000/ a year each, there was 1 30,0001. a year to be divided among the Generals. Promotion was also much more rapid in the Army. Many of those who were now Generals had entered: the Army as late as 1814, while all who were Post; Captains in 1808 were. Post: Captains still. It was clearly shown that Lord Rodney, whom no person could deny to be an excellent and gallant officer, did not perform his duties so well as if he had been a younger man. When he fought his great action he was 70 years of age, and was labour ing under a fit of gout, and it was evident to all that he could not perform his duty so well as if ho had been only 40 years of age. The next instance he would take was the action of the let June, fought by Lord Howe, when he was 63 years of age, and it was well known that for three years previous to the ac tion he was subject to mental and bodily afflictions, and al lowed six or seven of the enemy's fleet t.o escape under their spritsails. The next example was that of Sir Thomas Holder. He would next take Lord Nelson as an example, whose ac knowledged ability and naval talents everybody must allow, but whose gallant actions were, in his (Sir C. Napier's) opinion, to be attributed much more to his youth than to any particular ability he displayed ; and he was sure that if the other Admirals e whom he mentioned, were as young, and strong, and healthy as Lord Nelson, they would have been able togive as gOod an account of the enemy as he had. Lord Nelson was made an Admiral at the ago of 35. He fought the battle of the Nile at the age of 36 ; that of Copenhagen at 42, and was killed at 47. He once asked a Gallant Officer, whose authority no body in that House would deny—he meant Sir Thomas Hardy— whether if Lord Nelson had been sixty years of age when he fought the battle of the Nile, or sixty-six when he gained that of Trafalgar, he would have fought the battle of the Nile on the night he had, or have gained the other as ho did ,• and he (Sir Thomas Hardy) replied that he would not. He would next take the example of Sir J. Shumarez, but before he did so, he would make an allusion to Admiral Duncan, who, at the age of sixty-eight years, attacked the enemy's fleet, which was more numerous than his o :en, upon a lee shore, at a dis tance of only eight miles from land, and had obtained a glorioui victory. But it should be recollected that that was an exti a ordinary case, and he (Sir C. Napier) was only speaking of the general run of men. Now, with regard to Admiral Sauinarez, he took a small squadron at the age of forty •two to Gibraltar, attacked the French fleet, was defeated, and lost his ship things which rarely occur to a British Admiral.—( Hear, hear.) He got his fleet into port, and with five sail of the line he managed to defeat the Spanish fleet. Two of their vessels were blown up, and the rest were obliged to surrender. Now he (Sir C. Napier) attributed the success of that exploit to the youth of the officer in command ; a man of seventy years of age could not possibly have accomplished such a victory. A remedy was absolutely and indispensibly necessary for the present evils which existed in the Navy. The cure which he, (Sir C. Napier) would suggest was—he would not say a ra dical cure—( Laughter)—for he was sure the pre sent Government did not like anything of that soete—( Great laughter)—but he would undertake to say it would be an effectual remedy—( Hear, hear)—it would only cost the Government 100,0001. His proposal was that when Captains in the Navy came within 100 of the top of the list, and were 60 years of age, they should Ire allowed to retire upon pen ions of 100/. a year. He only asked the House to give 10,0001. a year, and they would provide for old officers, and render the service more efficient.—( Hear, hear. ) That would he making sure provision for those officers who had been worn out in the public service, and had been the very flowers of the service during the wars. His object was to make some provision for those who happened not to be the second babies of the aristocracy—( Laughter )—and con sequently were not promoted or made Commanders, as they had no friends or family to push them forward.—( Hear, hear. ) He would propose that old officers should be put upon the re tired list, and promoted to the rank of post-captains —.it would give them the rank, and yet it would be only an addition of 6d. per day to their pay. Now he asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer to give them even that 6d. a day, it would not be much, but it would be accepted as a boon. If the Government would once make some such arrangement it would have one good effect at all events, namely, the service would never again be worn out as it is now. hen he would suggest that the proportion should go half by seniority, and the other half by choice—( Hear, hear)—or if the Government did not think that half was not sufficient for their patronage, as he knew they were greedy about it—( Hear, hear)—he would give them two to be promoted by choice, and one by seniority. The slow promotion of the Mates especially operated to disgust them, and had a very disheartening effect on the young men who were entering the service. Formerly it was very rare to find men quit the service after having joined it, but it was now a common thing, and in those who did remain it caused the same sort of feeling. Formerly they had some prospect of promotion after six, eight, or ten years' service; if the Mates were promoted after six years' service he thought they should not complain ; but having served that time, they thought it hard to get no promotion. He next came to the petty officers, and if justice were done them, it would also cost the Exchequer a little money. If they looked at the manner in which the Navy was manned, and the difficulty there was at all times in getting men, when he had known an eighty gun ship lie at Portsmouth for more ,than six months, without getting her complement, it was evident that it was absolutely necessary something should be done to en courage seamen to enter the Navy. Every officer in the House knew that the working oetty officers were the mos t useful class of men possible, but the difference of pay be tween the able seaman and the petty officer was not suf ficient to make the former aspire to the station of petty officer. Of those officers there were two classes — the the second class having but2s. or 3s.a month more than t able-bodied seamen. When the Duke of Clarence was Lord High Admiral, he put a patch on their arms, and made officers s i patch on them ; he did a great deal of good, but if he had pu t a a. on their pay—(Laughter)—he would have done a great deal more. He should propose that the pay of time petty officers be 31. a month, and he would do away with the thirteen months in the year instead of twelve. Seamen were paid for thirteen months in the year, but many of them could not understand it; he had himself heard a sailor in Cork say he understood there were only eight pay months in the year, and on being told there 'were thirteen, said he did not know, he had always been told there were twelve. He would change this system altogether, and give the sailor 21. a month. He approved generally of the Bi l l of the Right Ho nourable Baronet for manning the Navy, which was the only attempt that had been made to regulate the supply of men to the naval force, for the last thirty years. But it ought to go further, because, in the event of a war, it called on British seamen to serve their country, and gave them only four or five days to decide whether they would serve as volunteers or be impressed. They ought to make the seamen understand that the service of this country was a good service. He felt that it would be extremely difficult to pass a Bill of that sort in the present feeling of the country, but a beginning might be made. Now there was an Act passed in the reign of Queen Anne re quiring merchantmen to receive parish boys on (board their ships, and after they had served four years on board those vessels, they should go into the Navy. That Bill he might say was at present a dead letter, but when the Poor-law Bill came to be discussed, he thought the House would have au opportunity of making good use of that Bill. There was another arrangement he highly approved of, which the present Government had adopted, and that was reserving to seamen their pensions, or rather allowing them tolave their pensions, allowing them to be employed in the service still re taining their ;pensions. It had always been liberal, but he thought it would have been better to give them more pay. He would now come to officers' pensions. The:officer when he went to sea lost his pension ; now, that appeared to him to be extraordinary, because when he went to sea, he was obliged to fit out his ship, and if he got appointed to a small one he then lost half his pay. There was another point with respect to pensions, to which he was anxious to call the attention of the House. By the Queen's regulation when an officer received wounds, amounting to the loss of a limb, her Majesty was authorised to grant him a year's pay, and she reserved to herself the granting of an annual pension if he had received wounds of a certain description. But what had the Admiralty done about 150 years ago ? they made a regulation that no officer should receive an annual pension unless wounded equal to the loss of a limb. He had never heard that the regu lation had been altered. One observation lie would make with respect to a statement of the Right Honourable the Secretary to the Admiralty. He said that in reducing the ships to six sail of the line, the fully manned ships would require the same number of men. He should have thought that if tour sail of the line took as much material as five sail of the line there ought to be some reduction in the materiel. With respect to ships being placed in slips ; he believed it to be the very best thing the Admiralty had done. He thought if the Admiralty built more slips it would be a benefit to t ey h e e ay e re o sa, u r n sp t et r ha y ee . ey, B co u u t was t extraordinary They t h ha a t d a fo t r w t e h n i t r y t_y s - i fi x v mostfind that out. and they never found nut before that it was necessary to keep ships on the slips. He believed there had been one tried at Deptford fourteens years ago, and there it was now.—(Laughter.) AR- He'll show his daring spirit." Sir G. COCKBURN was happyito find young officers coming forward in that House in the manner in which the Hon. and Gallant Member who had just sat down did.—( Hear, hear.) The first thing he (Sir G. Cockburn) wished to call the attention of the House to, was the case of Mr. Elton. Mr. Elton, as the Gallant Officer had stat o d, wrote a letter to an officer whom he considered his friend, making a request to which no answer was returned. He then wrote an insubordi nate letter to that officer. For this he was tried by a Court martial and dismissed the service, in addition to which he was sentenced to six months imprisonment in the Marshalsea. He had no hesitation in saying that when the intelligence of that sentence arrived at the Admiralty, there was not au officer there who did not consider that a severe sentence, though they took it for granted, considering vehohad passed the sentence, that there were good reasons for it. They then determined in their own minds not to send him to prison. When they heard, however, of his improper conduct on board of the Hastings, they determined not to interfere on his u e i tn if , sod accordingly lie was sent to the Alarstralsea. The Cap. tain whom Mr. Elton had offended by his misconduct reverting to what occupied the attention of the Committee, refer to one subject—the good service pensions—and on this subject he would say that he hoped the House would continue pensions to persons when en full pay. He hoped he might be permitted to congratulate his Hon. Friend on the plain and distinct manner in which he had laid the matter before the House ; and, having had some experience himself in the office which his Hon. Friend so worthily filled, he knew that it was only by the strictest attention that the estimates could be brought forward in so clear and lucid a manner. His Hon. Friend had assumed that a reduction of six sail of the line in the ser vice would take place, as he observed that the Navy at present contained 1,500 men more than had been voted for; and he hoped that the money thus saved would enable the Admiralty to reward honourable services. He (Mr. C. Wood) hoped that those complaints wnieh had been so freely made when he re presented the Admiralty would not be made now. He trusted that we need not expect the French to land in London, and that his Hon. Friend opposite would believe that he might sleep content and in peace, without having his orchards robbed by a Russian fleet.—(Hear, hear.) Those complaints had been made, certainly most unjustifiably, in his time—(Hear)—but he hoped they would not be made now. He had no fault to find with the estimates which had been laid on the table ; indeed, it would be strange if he had, for they were as near as possible the estimates of last year—another proof that the successors of the late Government thought they could not do much better than follow their ex ample.—( Hear, hear.) There were, however, some few poi n t s of small importa n ce where they differed—where the present Government had done that, in direct opposition to their prede cessors, which, if they had considered better, they would not have done. He did not object to their giving full complements to the Navy, considering how the country was at present situated with regard to fsreign countries. Indeed, he thought that, during the last two years, it would have been better if larger complements had been allowed.—( Hear, hear,) But he thought that the Admiralty had gone to work rather rashly, that what they had done was founded upon no sound principle. In the Princess Charlotte, for example, when the former com plement was 850 men, they made it 950; thus adding 100 men more than was considered necessary, by six of the ablest officers in the Navy. But three-deckers, which had formerly been considered first-rates, wire to be considered first rates no longer, but were to be reduced to second rates. If so complete a change as that had to be made, he (Mr. C. Wood) would not say another word en the subject. He should be glad to hear if all that had been done was to de termine that at the present time ships should go to sea with the full war complement; then nothing more would have to be said; but if the Admiralty said that under all the -circum stances, and at all times, ships never should leave this country but with what had been considered a full war complement, he should be glad to hear what were the reasons which had in duced the Admiralty to alter that which had hitherto been the uniform practice. He should be glad to know what the rea sons were which had induced them now to reverse that which had been the decision of the Boards of Admiralty during peace for the present and the last century. There was another sub ject which had been alluded to, where the Admiralty had re versed the decision of their proceedings—it was the allowing of sailors to receive their pensions with their pay. That was a subject where the late Board of Admiralty followed the course which had been previously adopted ; and he remembered a case in which two sailors, who were attacked with the gout, on board of the Formidable, at Spitbead, had received the pay of able-bodied men and pensions at the same time. Sailors who were discharged after serving twenty-one years, received a pension for life ; but when they only suffered under temporary disabilities, they only received temporary pensions. The mode in which the Admiralty got rid of that gout case, was not by stopping the pensions, as they surely ought to have done, but by making the men quit the service. The Government had since decided on* giving no pensions but pensions for long service. He (Mr. Wood) fully concurred with his Hon. and Gallant Friend the Member for Marylebone, that it was exceedingly objectionable to receive pay and pension together. He though the tendency of the present system was to destroy a principle which was of the greatest service to the Navy—that of keeping up a constant intercourse with the merchant service. He always thought that the fact of those who received the pensions from the Navy going into the merchant's service, and speaking of the present nature of the discipline of the Navy, did much to do away with the dread which merchant sailors frequently felt at entering the Navy. There was a reduction of 10,0001. for dock-yard wages; he questioned the prudence of this step, for it was only lately, that the operations in our dock-yards had been conducted with suf ficient vigour, and to the necessary extent, especially in the building of first and second rate line-of-battle ships, though of course he would admit that it was advisable to delay the launch ing of ships, as long as possible; indeed, he was desirous to see it decided how long ship could remain on the stocks with out being deterioated. Here he would advert to the bad policy of the exposure that was made of the state of our dock yards in 1839, when, by an attack made by the opposite party, foreign Powers were informed that there was not more than six month's consumption in our dockyards, though that statement did not give the exact facts of the case. But the Government to which he had belonged, had been gradually advancing the efficacy of the dock-yards, as would be seen from the wages in successive years ; being in 1836 ... £300,000 1837 1838 1839 . 1840 460,000 1841 But now the amount taken was Again the amount voted for stores was -1835 £383,000 1836 1837 575,000 1838 593,000 1839 1840 1,094.000 1841 Now it was He hoped the dockyard system would lose none of its efficiency under its present superintendence. With regard to steam vessels, he thought the reduction of 50,0001., which was made in that department,: was a very large reduc tion ; and, looking to the great importance of steam vessels to the Navy, he hoped that a large number of them would be laid on in the course of the year. There was only one other subject to which he would allude, and that was the packet ser vice. The passage to Halifax had been very successful , and then with re g ard to the West Indies, the passage of vessels to that place ha d been performed with great success. He con fessed he had a particular interest in those, because they were part of the arrangements made by himself when he was con nected with the Admiralty ; and with respect to expense of the passage to the West Indies, he believed the receipts of the Post office were more than sufficient to defray it. Sir G. COCKBURN said, that with regard to what the Hon Gentleman had said respecting the manning of the ships, he (Sir G. Cockburn) must allow that although vessels of war may be sufficiently manned to go to sea, they might not be so for the purposes of war. He was therefore of opinion that it was of the greatest importance that the ships should be properly manned; and he would ask, how was it possible, if they left the country without the proper complement of men, that they could perform in the Chinese and Indian Seas those services that were expected from them ? But if the proper number of men were first employed, they could be more easily kept up. With respect to pensions, they found that one of the difficulties in getting ships manned arose from paucity of pensions, and another difficulty, which arose from the same cause, was the number of the deserters. Those pensions were granted some - times for life, and sometimes for one or more oears. It was always found that the longer the men remained in the ser vice the more competent they became, and if they expected a pension the longer they would be inclined to remain in the service. 1 f they remained 21 years in the service, they were eligible to a pension ' • and if they were invalids, they received pen:ions for two or three years. Mr. C. WOOD explained. Sir R H. INGLIS said he would not enter into the general subject. He only rose for the purpose of de fending the commanders of the Niger expedition, which, he contended, was confided to men as gallant as any who ever carried their country's colours to any part of the world. He was most anxious to express his cordial acknowledgments to her Majesty's late and present Ad ministrations for the course they adopted with respect to that expedition. Hon. Gentlemen were very sensitive with respect to human life when the object was one of pure, unmixed bene volence. God forbid that he should undervalue the loss that unhappily marked the course of that expedition. He grieved as much as any gentleman in that House, or out of it, for the loss of that expedition; but when he considered the loss of life that attended other expeditions, conducted for the single and sordid object of gain ; when he considered the loss of life at tending former expeditions, conducted for the purpose of Carrying on the slave trade, and comparing it with the loss of that expedition undertaken for the purpose of supporting it, he did not think the sensitiveness of Hon. Gentlemen, was greatly to be envied who could not endure the loss of 2,500 persons out of 10,000 engaged in the Guinea trade, one quarter of the number of persons employed in the ships that formed the expedition. He most sincerely thanked her Majesty's late Administration for sending an expedition for purposes of the purest and most Christian benevolence.— ( Hear, hear.) He believed there were other instances of ex peditions in which 24 out of 25 persons perished, and a still greater proportion out of the expeditions conducted by Oldfleld and Lander. The result of the present ex pedi tion, he contended, did not justify the language held by per sons out of doors with respect to the policy which dictated that expedition, and he hoped they would -still carry it forward as far as might be consistent with the general principle on which it was conducted. He did not see anything in that ex pedition to justify a Gallant Friend of his in speaking in the manner he did of her Majesty's late Administration, and he hoped the present Government would give the principle of it their continued countenance and support. Lord INGESTUIE explained. Captain BERKELEY said in explanation, that when serving on the coast of Syria, in the month of August, 1840, they had been warned that they were likely to come in contact with the French fleet, but it was not until the month of January following that they had got one man to complete the fleet. Even the ships sent out expressly for the purpose of meeting the fleet of France had only been able to come on their peace compliment. Fifteen hundred seamen had been wanted to make up the complement, and up to the month of January, 1841, they had only got 350 of the number. Captain PECHELL said that he could not but express his approval of the manner in which the Estimates bad been brought forward that evening; and he was ready to admit that much benefit had resulted to the service from improvements intro duced by the present Administration. He was particularly glad to find that the practice was no longer enforced of not allowing seamen to re-enter the service with their pensions. His only regret was, that the estimates were not larger, so that we might be enabled to have three fleets in full complement—the one in the Downs, the other at Portsmouth, and the other at Ply mouth. It appeared that France had not reduced her fleet, and the Right Hon. Baronet, the Member for Dorchester, had stated in a speech addressed to his constituents, and M. Guizot had positively stated in the French Chamber, that no such step had been taken by the French Government. The French Minister of Marine had made a similar declaration, and it appeared that France had now six sail of the line lying at Brest. Under these circumstances, and in the present critical times, it did not become this country to reduce the great source of the na tional strength, on the score of economy. But although he regretted that the Estimates were not larger, he thought they were calculated to give entire satisfaction as far as they went. After a few words from Sir G. COCKBURN, which were quite inaudible in the gallery, Sir C. NAPIER said, the Gallant Admiral had quite mis understood him, if ho supposed that he meant to speak disre spectfully of Lord Howe. What he had said was, that it was impossible that he could have performed his duties as effi ciently, in that particular case, as lie would have done had he not arrived at such an advanced age. Mr. WILLIAMS did not intend to offer any opposition to the vote. Dr. BOWRING called the attention of the House to the great irregularity which prevailed in the mode of keeping the public accounts. After a few words from Mr. F. BARING the vote was agreed to. The next vote of 1,436,629/, to defray the wages of seamen and marines, was agreed to without observation. 742,842/. for invalid seamen was agreed to. On the question that 121,429/. be granted to defray the ex penses of the Board of Admiralty, Sir C. NAPIER said that he had found no ground of reason why the Navy of this country should be governed by a civilian, when he had never been on board of a ship in his life. __ ( H ur , h e ar, and laughter.) The Government seemed to be then wrote an official letter to the Admiralty, stating that he e thought the punishment had been sufficient, and begging, as a - personal favour, that the prisoner might be liberated. In reply to that letter they stated that they could not consistently re mit the toll punishment, but that after the lapse of a month they would grant a release. They considered that after the young man had been dlsniiseed from the service, and disgracad, by being sent to the Marshalled, if they kept him in the pri son any longer the sentence might appear to be vindictive ; and, unless the House decided to the contrary, they would still think that they had exercised a just and proper discretion. It was not every: young man that could manage a ship, although he had no doubt that every young man thought he could.—( Laughter.) It required considerable experience and knowledge, and a great deal of talent, to be able to manage a ship. With respect to the age of an Admiral being an objec tion, as stated by the Hon. and Gallant Officer, he (Sir G. Cockburn) thought that when a man had been em ployed, and had been found worthy of employment, it was their duty to continue to employ him.—(Hear.) The Gallant Officer thought that allowances should he made to offi cers to induce them to retire from the service. This had been before introduced into the House, and it was decided that it could not be entertained, and at that time it was argued and well considered. With regard to the motion of the Gallant Officer to increase the pay of seamen in the Navy, it was a subject for grave consideration. In the first plate, if they in creased the pay of the seamen in the Navy, it would become necessary for the merchants to increase their pay to sailors in their ships. It behoved the parties conducting the affairs of the country to look to this. With regard to adding to the number of boys, they must consider that there (was always a greater number of boys ready to go to sea, both in the Navy and the merehatit service, than either could take, and there fore it would be an unwise thing tp bring up a larger number than could be provided for, for the consequence would be, that they would ultimately become paupers. At the time the Navy amounted to 200,000, the next reduction caused 100,000 men to be turned out upon the wide world. Many became labourers i n th e co untry, and were i n great distress. He was ready to admit that seamen could not be got in a day when they wanted to increase the Navy. If they decreased the Navy now, and a war should spring up, that difficulty they would find. There could be no doubt that it was a highly important thing to keep up a certain number, to prevent dis aster in case of war. If they kept up this number of seamen in the Navy, the less necessity would there be for recruiting the country. But it war were to come upon.them with but 32,000 seamean in the Navy they would have to g o i nto t h e merc h an t service for men. With respect to increasing the pay of the officers in the Navy, he, for one, could have no objection ; but it must be remembered that Captains had larger pay than Co lonels commanding regiments. With regard to the officers in the Navy, they could not give too much encouragement to them. They were very valuable men—they got attached to the service, and moved about from one ship to another; and he thought it highly desirable to give them encouragement. He thought it was desirable that the officers commanding ships should make a return of the petty officers that were fit to be come officers, and recommend them to the Admiralty. With respect to the statement of the Hon. and Gallant Commodore that many Admirals were not. fitted to command, he (Sir G. Cockiewrn) must say he thought the Gallant Officer was very much mistaken. With regard to the good service pension, there was no objectio n on th e p ar t o f th e Admiralty to continue it to those to whom it had already been granted. With respect to the retirement of Captains, he thought it would bo a very valuable thing to allow officers, after a certain age, to retire upon 20s. a day.—(" Hear, hear," from Sir C. Napier) Now with regard to another point alluded to by an Hon. and Gallant Member on his ( SirG. Cockburn's) side of the House, viz., the sale of commissions. It was not the first or second time it had been mentioned in that House, but the question had nCti been entertained. In these commissions a certain degrei of interest must prevail. A person holding an office came to the War-office when there was a commission for sale, and insisted on his son or his nephew reu icing it. Now it was not easy o resist this.—( Laughter.) He thought there was an advan tage in bringing young persons forward in different ranks, although they ought not, nor did they, refuse advancement to old officers. But still it was very useful to bring young men forward, for young men gave su fficient money t o retire the old officer, and make him comfortable in his retirement ; andin addition to this comfort the old man who had been twenty or thirty years in the service felt that he was paid for his service , . If an old officer had a son in the Navy, he came to the Admiralty, and his name was put down for promotion on the first vacancy. The Hon. and Gallant Member concluded by saying that he thought it would be much more advisable to give retiring Captains 20s. a day,instead of 14s. per day. Captain BERKELEY commenced by saying that he was perfectly satisfied with the answer he had received with respect to the case of M r . Elt on , notw ith s t an di ng the odium thrown upon the case by the public press. It was very true Mr. Elton was in a ship under his . (Captain Berkeley's) command. His (Mr. Elton's) friends had taken great pains to . bring forward a certificate from him (Capt a i n Berkeley) approving the conduct of the young man. Although the friends of Mr. Elton had brought this certificate forward, they knew perfectly well why he was obliged to quit. the ship. They were also aware of the rea sons that induced him (Captain 8.1 to turn him out of the ship. He should have been content to have let the subject rest, after the answer he had received, but for the feeling out of doors, and the cx parte statements which had gone forth. Having stated so much, he would just refer to the spe ec h o f the Hon. and Gallant M e mber for Westminster, who stated that a circumstance took place in the Mediterranean with re.. gard to some Midshipmen carrying a black flag round the harbour. He merely begged to state that no such circum stance ever took place, and he wished to clear . Admiral Sir Robert Stopford from the supposition that such a circumstance could have taken place under his command. He was quite aware that Gallant Officer never would have allow ed it. He (Captain B.) was very sorry, at all times, to make any eons parison between their brothers of the Army and themselves, but it had been done that night by the Gallant Ad m i ra l, opposite. He stated th a t t h e C a pt a in in the Navy h a d a higher pay than a Colonel in the Army, but it must be taken into consideration that a Colonel in the Army had no mess, while the Captain in the Navy was obliged to keep a table for six months out of the year; and he had many other calls upon him which the Colonel of a regiment had not. Much had been said with r egar d to t h e age of o ffi cers , an d it was very well for the Hon. and Gallant Member who had just spoken . to allude to this, for he was p romote d at a ti me w hen the list was not so large as at the present time—at a time when there was au absolute necessii y for such promotions for redeeming the list. He did not think that he need trouble the Committee any longer upon the subjest ; but before he sat down he should say that the Navy, and the servtce generally, owed much to the Hon. and Gallant Commodore (Sir C. Napier); and there was one subject which, although a delicate one, he should advert to. Be meant the comparison instituted between the Army and Navy, as he should certainly say that it struck him most forcibly that those who were placed at the head of the Admiralty had not the same feelings or anxiety for the pro mo ti on o f nava l in terests, as those who were at the head of the A rm y, a nd for the promotion of the interest of that service.—(H ear .) He made that observation without the slightest disrespect for those Noble and Gallant Officers at the head of the Admiralty. He should further observe, as an illustration of what he had already stated, that two of the last military officers who had distinguished themselves were made Peers, while a similar distinction had not been conferred upon Sir Robert Stopford, who, it would be admitted upon all sides, had commenced and termi nated his career most brilliantly.—(Hear hear.) When it was recollected that the result o f t h e victory achieved by that Gallant Officer had secur e d th e peace of Europe, he (Capt. Berkeley) thought that s o me distinction should have been con ferred upon Sir Robert Stopford upon the same principle that rewards for public service were confe rre d upon military officers. Lord IN ESTRIE said it was gratifying to see Gentlemen on both sides of the House discussing t'his subject without ad verting to politics. As referen ce had beets made to Sir Robt. hisS topfe%i rvd:hlie that a peerage had b een conferre d upon (Lord Ingestrie) s h ould add the expression of that distinguished office: ; it was an honour due, not only to him as an officer of distinction, but it was due to the profession to which he belonged, He trusted, alter what had fallen from the Right Hon. an d G a ll ant Admi ral, that seine plan would be hit upo n to secure younger men for the naval service. He did not mean the slightest disrespect to the officers who had bee n so long intoservice, but he thought a small additional pay should be given to them on re • tiring; it would not cost the count r y much, and it would afford an opportunity of providing f or o ffi cers who had been distin guished, and have their places filled up by younger men. He wished to advert to the subject of the construction of British ships; a subject which was neglected by this country for a series of years, however, he was glad to see by the newspapers that there was a comm i ttee of shipwrights appointed at Woolwich to see t h at every improvement should be effected in the construction of ships for the future. Ile would beg leave to ask the Right Hon. and Gallant Ad miral whether it was the intention of the Admiralty that their line of battle ships should be constructed for the future upon the plans of Admiral Hay. He (Lord Ingestrie) thought that the English Navy was not supplied with a su ffi c i en t quan tity of heavy frigates. He wished also to ask the Right Hon. and Gallant Admiral a further question with reference to the Niger Expedition. He (Lord Ingestrie) called the attention of the House to that subject in a former Session of Parliament, and he was extremely sorry to say that the apprehension he then expressed had since turned out to be lamentably true. He wished to ask (as the Noble Lord was understood) whether any report had been received from that expedition, or whether it was intended to repeat it. Sir GEORGE COCKBURN rose to reply, but from the low tone of voice in which he spoke, it was impossible to hear a sentence. The Gallant Admiral was understood to say that the strictest attention would be paid to the construction of Bri tish ships, with a view to make them the most perfect, the strongest, and the best possible description of ships that could be constructed, both as regarded their stability, their power of sailing, and, what is still more important, the working off ir lee shore. The most particular attention should be paid to the construction of the bows and steps/4 which were the great points where strength was required in,ships , of,war,. They might still effect some improvement in the construction of ships, hut he was hound to say he believed the very best ship in the British navy was the Inconstant. The sailors described her by using a nautical phrase, which was—that she sailed over the water like a duck, whilst the others had their bowsprits under water. er to a ver y which w as Lord STANLEY said it might be proper for him to notice a subject which was brought under the consideration of the Committee by the Noble Lord who had just sat down ; he meant the Niger Expedition. That exped itio n was undertaken with a desire to increase and improve the comm unication, if possible, between this country and t he interior of Africa, and carriedif possible on there.put a 1 t stop v a s t o impossibletl s ytern o to dfen slavery that great extent that expedition was a failure.—(Hear, hear.) He would not say it was altogether a failure, because it showed a disposition upon the part of the pe o p le in that coun try to im prove and enter into commercial intercours e w i th this country. However, it was impo ssible to contend a gainst the climate of Africa. The Governm ent would not fe el them. selves justified, after the lamentable losses that had occurred, again to risk the lives of Europe ans and white persons in ' to send another expedition up the Nile. attempting He be lieved he might safely say thst the Government who had sent out that expedition had no idea of the fatal results.—( Hear, hear.) With respect to the British Vubjects who had esta blished themselves in the interior of Africa, it wa s a matter deserving of the most serious consideration whethe r it would be possible to interfere for their protection. He (Lord Stanley) would decline saying a nything that would show an intention upon the part of her Majesty's Government, o r bi n d them in the least, to give protection to those p eop l e. He totally disclaimed the idea that British protection by force of arms could or would be given to them, and if British subjects would settle themselves there, they should not expect any protection from this country, but they must live under the laws and the Government of the country in which they chose to reside. At the same time, he should say that they ought not to be altogether abandoned by the Government. It deserved serious consideration whether it might not be pro per to send out a small frigate to that country, for th e purpose of removing or bringing home those British subjects, if t h e chose it, and afford them that moral support and protection to which, as subjects of this realm, they were entitled; the vessel might be entrusted to the care of negroe3, who would not be affected by the climate ; a t the same time he (Lord Stanb y) should say that, looking at the dreadful 1033 of life which had occurred in that expedition, her Majesty's Govern ment had no intention whatever to repeat it. Mr. CHARLES WOOD said he had the greatest satis faction in hearing the statements which had b een made by the Noble Lord of the intentions of her Majesty's Government, with reference to the Niger exp e di t i on . it zags 1101 Lis intention to go into many matters which had 1 occupied the attention of the House. He would only, before folios ing the policy of Turkey, which appointed the Capitan Pacha on the ground that he had been born within sight of the sea, as was the canoe with the present First Lord of the Admi ralty. It was aid that a civilian was appointed to the office, because he was less likely to have personal motives for promot ing officers in the service. But if he were obliged to have recourse to a naval officer to assist him, he (Sir Charles Napier) could not see how that naval officer might not have his relations and personal friends to promote just as much as if he were the First Lord of the Admiralty himself. From the year 872—( Great laughter).—to a recent period in our history, the Sovereigns were the heads of the Admiralty, they were the kings of the sea, and the Navy was immediately directed by High Admirals. In the reign of Queen Anne, after Lord Pembroke had served the office of Lord High Ad miral, the Commissioners of the Admiralty were appointed, and the system had continued since ttat time, for what reason he knew not, unless it was that the Ministers of the day, on look ing about them, found that civilians possessed more Par liamentary influence than naval men possessed. An other reason was, that it was extremely advantageous to the Minister of the day to have the whole of the administration of the Navy under his control, particularly when parties were nicely balanced in that House.—( Hear, hear, and laughter. ) He wished to show that this was no new opinion of his, or ex pressed from opposition to the present Government. As far back as 1816, he had addressed a letter to Lord Melville, in which he had pointed out the objectionable manner in which the Navy was governed. In this he did not allude to a mere Lord of the Admiralty, but to something even worse. (The Hon. and Gallant Member then read a short extract, in which he made a strong objection to the appointment of a military man to the Board of Admiralty.) This was in 1816, and he believed he followed it up, when the Right Hon Baronet. was at the head of the Admiralty. ;Then he came into office he ( Sir C. Napier) pointed out the propriety of having a Com mander-in-Chief of the Fleet. He could not understand, when the Army had a Commander-in-Chief who was not a Cabinet Minister, wnile the Master-General of the Ordnance, the Quartermaster-General, the Military Secretary, and all the officials of the Army administration were almost, exclu sively, military men, why, there was not a Commander-in- Chief, or whatever name he might have, at the head of the Navy. There were many reasons why there should be one ; it often happened that the First Lord of the Admiralty was very ignorant of naval affairs, but after remain ing in office a little time, he imagined he was a perfect sailor, and he believed that in the case of the last Lord of the Admiralty, he assumed a great deal more power than he had any authority to do, because in the Board of Admiralty the re sponsibility was divided. But if he was not mis• taken, the late Lord of the Admiralty did assume a power that had never been assumed before; it was with re spect to manning the Navy. A scheme was prepared, after great deliberation, for keeping the number of the Navy as low as possible, and that was to be a war complement, with one eighth to be taken as a peace establishment This was pre sented to Lord Minto, who pat it in his pocket, and never brought it before the Board at all, and no thing was heard of it till it wasunderstood Lordship had struck off one-fifth instead of one-eighth. Was that a proper way for the naval administration to be con ducted ? In the time either of the Earl of Chatham or of Lord Spencer, the Board of Admiralty desired to supersede Admiral Bridport, but several of the Lords of the Admiralty refused to sign the order, when they were threatened by the First Lord that if the order was not signed, the Board should cease to exist.—(Hear. hear.) But it went even further than this; he had been told on good authority that in the time of Lord Spencer, several sheets of foolscap were sent round and signed, though many of the Lords of the Admiralty did not know the contents. But an instance had occurred of late years. He had read in one of the Malta papers that in a letter from Lord Minto, Admiral Stopford was ordered to proceed off Candia, and there wait for orders. Was the Gallant Admiral right or wrong in obeying that order? If the First Lord of the Admiralty was responsible, the naval administration would be better conducted. They had a Vice and Rear-Admiral of England ; he did not wish to de prive them of their offices, but for the future he should pro pose that there should be two Lords to assist the Commissoners of the Navy in carrying on affairs. He would put the Vice-Admiral of England at the head of the dockyards of the kingdom ; for if there had been one officer at the head of the dockyards for the last tea years, they would not have been twenty-five years in i riding out that- it was necessary to keep a ship of war on the slips to save her from rotting. If they had such an officer they would not have found the masts of sixty or seventy sail of the line totally rotten. If they had a Commander-in-Chief at the head of the Navy the British fleet would never have been manned in the way it had been, for he would have told the Prime Minister that he would not take the responsibility of sending the fleet to sea in such a manner. The present Board of Admiralty was nothing but a screen to escape responsibility, for if any dis aster happened to whom could they apply? They could not hang the whole Board of Admiralty.— (Lsughter. ) One man might be impeached, and more easily than four or five, but at present the blame would be thrown from one to another through the whole Board. He thought he had heard it stated that night that the stores of the Navy were reduced to the lowest possible scale ; that they were all on paper; that, in fact, there was nothing in the dock yards at all. Now, if the First Lord had of his own will and deed, and without consulting the other Lords, had reduced the dock-yards to that state, he would ask whether the First Lord would take the responsibility of the con sequence to the country ? He had stated his objections to the manner in which the Navy was governed, and he would only make one other observation, which was, that if it continued to be conducted in the same manner by a Board of Admiralty, favour and affection in the promotions must go on through every branch of the service. The Right Hon. Baronet (Sir J. Graham) had, during his Administra tion, destroyed the Navy Board and the Victualling Board, but if he had gone further, and destroyed the Admiralty itself, he would have done still greater good. He had great respect for the Noble Lord (Lord Haddington) at present at the head of the Admiralty; he believed he would job the Admiralty as little as any of his predecessors ; but if the First Lord of the Admiralty were made perfectly responsible, he would not ask a naval officer to be placed there. Captain CARNEdIE said the only reason why it had not been thought expedient to place a naval officer at the head of the Navy was, that it was said he must be in the Cabinet, as it required a man of great talents and active habits. Now his answer to that was, keep him out of the Cabinet, if he was not worthy to enter it. The Navy would not complain of it. The Army, he believed, did not complain because Lord Hill was not in the Cabinet. The Navy did not want a man versed in State secrets, but a man who knew the secret of _ governing the Navy.—(Hear.) if they were not to have a Naval Lord at the head of the Ad miralty, lie hoped Government would see the necesity of be stowing (some ,of the appointments, that came daily in their gift, upon naval men. Such, for instance, as the Second Se cretary to the Admiralty, now so ably filled by Sir John Bar row. He hoped, also, that hereafter the Government would take into consideration the propriety of making naval men Commissioners of Greenwich Hospital. In conclusion, he must say, in justice to the Hight Hon. Gentleman, that the civilian at the head of the Admiralty Board was one of the most competent that had ever been appointed. Lord HOWICK admitted the importance of the subject that had been brought under the consideration of the Honour able and Gallant Officer. But while he did so, he had no hesitation in, saying, that he gave the preference to the existing arrangement, because it by no means excluded naval men from being First Lords of the Admiralty. He thought it would be extremely inconvenient if it were laid down as a rule that persons of high rank in the Navy were to be made Fit st Lords of the Admiralty. Such a system had worked ill in the Army, and he felt convinced that it would do so in:the Navy. He would not at this hour of the night attempt to refer to instances where such an arrangement in the Army had been attended with the very worst effects. But this he would say, that at a fitting opportunity he should be prepared to show, in the Administration of the Army for the last thirty-five years, a series of mismanagement and blunders, affecting the lives and the welfare of British soldiers, by which hundreds of thousands of lives, and millions of money had been sacrificed. If he could show that such a state of things had occurred in the Army, he trusted that a system which had led to such results would not be followed in the Na-y. He thought that the country and Parliament looked for the good management of the Navy to the First Lord of the Admiralty, but he could not carry out the different services connected with the office without he could find high officers to co-ope rate with him. If officers in the Admiralty did not think affairs were carried on in a manner of which they could approve, their duty was plain and simple, it was to retire from the Board. There ought to be the most entire confidence among the members of the Board of Admiralty, therefore he regretted that the Hen. and Gallant Officer had read the letter which he (Lord Howick) was convinced had not been intended to be read to the House of Commons. The reading of letters of that kind would put an end to all confidence among Members of the Admiralty. His (Lord Howick's) object in rising was not to let the speeches of the Gallant Officers that had been delivered that night go forth without giving his opinion on the plausible doctrines advanced in those speeches, namely, that they ought not to put an unprofessional man at the head of the Admiralty. Sir H. HARDINGE said that at that late hour of the night it was not fitting to discuts the question whether the Navy ought to be governed by a civilian or not. The report which the Noble Lord had signed —every tittle of the evidence upon which the report had been founded, and which had been given before the Noble Lord himself, went in a direction con trary to the judgment which had been arrived at. If Hon. Members would read the evidence of the Duko of Wellington before that Commission (it was a Commission appointed by his late Majesty), they would find not only in the evidenoe given by the Noble Duke, but also in that given by. Lord Vivian, by himself, and several other Military Officers, .that the intended plan of superseding the Commander-M-Chief, by a civilian, would have a most disastrous effect spew the Army, So strongly impressed was Lord Vivian with that sentiment, that when, as part of the plan of the Noble Lord, it was intended to abolish the office of Master-General of the Ordnance, or re form it, he intimated that sooner than accede to such a depre ciation of his office, he would resign. The Noble Lord must be aware that the Duke of Wellington and several officers condemned his plan. As for himself, he would never consent to the functions of Commander-in-Chief being conferred on a civilian. Ca Stain BERKELEY explained that the Hon .4 ..4444 . 4 .4.4.4.44. 4444 was Gentleman In tistaken in saying that the question of manninee.had been a Board eiuestion while he Berkeley)(Cap a ta w i a n 3bsth vas the Board. The mdi '< e e l Inc be )h e e n w taken ur carriage,iar Lord, ste rbeing( n a d n he a s s ai a d bou to t to h r i ' l s ea H ' e o l o - ti o s ' it will end, the complements will (ts c iee rr al i e d '4lh°tai° : : : r. nd I shall have to give up my seat at the not be Shortly after he (Capt. Berkeley) went down into the country, and while there ho received a letter from the Hon. Gentleaut n, saying—" One•fifth will be taken off instead of one-elk-MI ) , and that, I trust, will satisfy you." His answ er to that coormunication was the publication of his answer to Sir John Ilarroves letter, and the resignation of his se* a t t h at Board. Sir ROBERT PEEL would address himself to the questio n which bad been raised by the Hon. and Gallant 0m 0e ,.. He did not consider that it was fitting that this House should lay down a rule that, under all circumstances, the office of First Lord of the Admiralty should be filled by a naval officer. lid should by sorry to tai down a rule excluding, under all circum stances, a naval man from the office of First Lord of the Admi ralty, btrt the present system did no such thing. It. }eft the office opt n to naval officers, while at the same time it did not exclude civilians, and he should be sorry to see the House depart itadbe fro ooa m the dmiii istec c e o d ns f t o it r utn oioeatlyuandeeer century. —ch(Hethare, hear. .) Since 17.97 there had been only two instances in which naval man had been at the head of the Beard of Ad miralty, and the Right lion. Baronet was justified in saying that the administration of the service had given general satis faction. Let them consider the great naval exploits which had been performed with civilians presiding at the head of the Board. Tht re were alvtays naval officers in the Board to girt. the First Lord advice, and when they looked at the names of those who had been First Lords for the last, forty years, Lord Spencer, Mr. Gren ville and .Lord Grey, he thought the 'House ought to Navy. It might b e necessary , to make reductions in the Navy. It was clear that a civilian was most fit to make those reductions. A gain, a civilian wa s muc h b etter fi tted to intro duce reform into the Naval Service than a Naval officer could possibly be. A _Naval Officer wou ld b e too much under the dominion of professional prejudices—(.Hear, bear, hear)—prejudicesw Inch personally did him the highest honour, to carry many measures into effect which might be carried into effect by a civilian. On the whale, he trusted the Howe would not interfere with the present constitution of the Board of Admiralty. Sir J. NAPIER could not agree with the Right Hon. Baronet in the high character which he gave the Board of Admiralty. He (Sir Charles Napier) had been in the service forty-two years, and during the whole of that time he had heard constant complaints of the manner in which the Navy had been ruled by the Board of Ad miralty. The argument of the Right Hon. Baronet as to the number of celebrated men whe had presided over the Board of Admiralty, told in his (Sir Charles Napier's) favour.— (Cries oft " Hear, hear.") Lord Barham was the First Lord at the time when the battle of Trafalgar was fought; shortly alter there was a change in the Administration, and Lord Howick, now Lord Grey, succeeded him. lie was suc ceeded by Mr. Grenville, who was succeeded in his turn by Lord Audley, making four changes in one year. He (-Cr C. Napier), well recollected the inconvenience attending those changes, and he had reason to do so, for he had well nigh become a victim to them himself. ( The Hon and Gallant. Member then read a long letter, that he had written to the Board of Admiralty in the year JBl6, complaining of a civilian being placed at the head of the Ad miralty, as it was annoying to the feelings of officers to be obliged to state the circumstances of every action to a chief who knew not how to appreciate them.) The continued changes which took place in the B oar d o f Ad m i ra l ty entailed an enor mous expense on the count r y. Wh en t h e B oard of Admiralty was under the last Government, th e y made changes, and (lid a great deal of good by doing so. When the present Adminis tration came into office, another general change took place, and destroyed the good the last Board of Admiralty had done. Now all these changes brought great expense upon the country— an expense lion. Gentlemen were not aware of. Th e N o bl e L ord near him said that the remedy was perfectly easy, for, if one Lord of tko Admiralty disapprovecrof what the Board of Ad miralty did, he could put a check upon them by resigning. But he (Sir C. Napier) did not think Hon. Gentlemen were much inclined to resign office at all, because, they kept in as long as they could He never saw a Lord of the Admiralty who was willing to resign his situation and give up 1,0001. a. year—( Continued laughter)—therefore, he thought the check was very insufficient. The .Noble Lord said the British Army was in a direful position, and yet that army, under the Duke of Wellington, had obtained the most glorious victories on record. But the Noble Lord was no soldier. Ile pretended to say the Army was ill-ruled, and he wished to keep the Navy in their hands, in order to increase the patronage ofthe Government.— (Loud laughter.) They had heard the Right Hon. Baronet tell them of the great victories of our men ; and he (Sir C Napier) knew that during the latter period of the war the ships were so insufficiently provided, that when a shot was fired at the enemy they could not hit her.—(Laughter.) He was in the Mediterranean fleet at the time when the war commenced with America, and instead of mantling ships suffic,ently well they sent out British men of war to be taken and disgraced, and this was under a civil Board of Admiralty. What did that Board of Admiralty do when they found out their mistake? Why a secret order was sent out to the officers on the American station not to engage American frigates if they fell in with them, thus throwing the whole of the blame on the Captains. The Captains did as they were ordered. " When I get the order (continued the Gallant Commodore), I put it into the only fit place for it, the quarter-gallery."—(Loud laughter, which con tinued for many minutes.) He remembered perfectly , well when the late King became Lord High Admiral, the Navy at that time was not in a wholesome state, it was ex tremely inefficient. He (the late King) found no justice was going on, great patronage existed, and everything was saeri , ticed to political influence. He (the late King) did ' a great deal towards reforming the Navy. He used to go down to Portsmouth and examine the ships himself, Every Captain, when Ihe heard that the Lord High Admiral was coming down, took particular pains to see that his ship was in order, for he well knew, if it was not, the Lord High Admiral would complain. He (Sir Charles Na pier) remembered one case of an officer, under his com mand, and a gallant officer he was, serving in the Burmese war, being severely wounded. He fell ill and was near to die, and he saw his junior officets promoted. Notwith standing his being recommended by his Commander to the Admiralty, he could not get the smallest redress. He (Sir C. Napier) himself asked the reason, and went to the Admiralty, hut he could not get the smallest re dress ; but he wrote to the Lord High Admiral, and the answer was, the officer was appointed to a Captaincy. These things would occur again, and it they were persisted in, it was perfectly impossible that the Navy could be carried on with credit or advantage. He (Sir C. Napier) had seen the British Navy himself in America near being disgrac,tl ; if they (the British line) I had fallen in with a .French brig during the war—il'• manned as the British vessels were, in consequence of the stubbornness of those under whose management naval affairs were then conducted there was not an officer in the British line who could say they were sure of victory. If the British Navy was ruled by British officers, he was sure that those things would not happen again. The Hon. and Gallant Member concluded by moving, as an amendment, a reduction in the estimate to the amount of 4,5001. _ After a few words from Captain PECTIELL in support of the amendment; also from Mr. Woon and the Hon. SIDNEY HERBERT, The question was put from the Chair, and the Amendment was negatived without a division. The vote was then agreed to. The next vote for 716,799/._ to defray the charges of the half pay of the officers of the navy was agreed to, after a short con versation between Mr. Williams, Mr. Charles Wood, Captain Pechell, and Mr. Sidney Herbert. The House resumed, the CHAta•stax reported progress, and obtained leave to sit again on Monday. EXCHEQUER BILLS. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER brought in a Bill for the appointment of a commission to inquire into the Exchequer Bills' fraud, which was ►ead a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Monday. Lord ELIOT brought in a Bill to amend an Act of her present Majesty for vacating any presentment for rebuilding the Gaol of Newgate in Dublin, and vacating any contract be tween the Commissioners for rebuildirg the said gaol and the contractor, which was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Monday. The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at One o'Clock, till Monday. THE CORN-LAWS.-MEETING IN SHAD WELL. A very numerous meeting of the inhabitants of the parish of St Paul, Shadwell, including the most influential merchants and ship. owners of that district, was last night held in the Vestry room, "to consider the means to be adopted on Sir Robert Peel's intention to perpetuate the Corn laws." Mr. CAREW, one of the Churchwardens, having been called to the Chair, stated the objects of the meeting; and it having beers intimated that some Chartists were in the room, who were not parishioners, requested that no one would interfere in the business of the evening who was not a parishioner. Mr. ALLAM moved the first resolution, which was as follows : "That this meeting deeply sympathizes with their fcliow.country. men who are the subjects of severe fulferings and privations, and same time as tradeeannotis but lei-ast ess declining, eir and m anxious eo c m on concern for )caving forth r fttat the eeinterest, our shores, the whole of which is attributable to the baneful effects of the Corn and pnwision_lawa. This meeting further expresses their disappointment in the measures prepared by her Majesty's Government, which measure, instead of affording the least be. nest, only tends to perpetuate the same iniquitous system, and that such plans are alike an insult to the nation and to suf fering humanity. Seeing, therefore, that they have declined to repeal those laws, which would be the only means to remove distress, and improve trade, the meeting do memorialize het' Majesty to dismiss from her counsels the present Ministry, and appoint such men as will appreciate the nation's claims, and render to the trading and commercial interests that justice so long denied them." Mr. Allam reviewed the plan preposedby Sir R. Peel, and contended that the Corp-law was no benefit to either the manufacturer or agricul turist, but was the bane of all classes, more particularly the poor. He knew it was difficult to approach Royalty, and it was more than probable that their memorial would not Rod its way to her Majesty, but if it did not, those to whom it would be confided would see what was the opinion of this populortt distriet. The resolution having been seconded, Mr. Faun moved an amendment, which, on being read, was found to be so nearly like the motion, and no seconder having been found for it, that it fell to the ground, The original motion having been put, was carried unanimously amidst great applause. Captain BERKELEY said, that with respect to his leaving the Admiralty, he had written the letter which the gallant Commodore had read in explanation of the reasons which in fluenced him to resign his office. The letter was a mere state ment of facts. He had been guilty of no breach of confidence whatever. He was not the first that had published any state ment on the matter. His publication was in answer to a pub lication of the second Secretary of the Board of Admiralty, who was present at all their deliberations, and who knew his (Capt. Berkeley's) opinion on the subject. He had published a defence of that statement, and he had been rewarded by the First Lord of the Admiralty by the purchase of his book.— ( Laughter. ) He (Capt. Berkeley) found it necessary, without entertaining any ill-will towards his colleagues, to make that statement, which he did, and the letter which he wrote was a simple statement (as there were so many mis-statements abroad) as to the reasons which had influenced his conduct, and one of those reasons given among his constitu ents was.--that he was about to change his polities and go over to the other side of the House; it therefore became him in every just way that he could, to account for the manner in which he left the political party to which he belonged then, and still be longed. If the Gallant Commodore would wove that the sa lary of the First Lord of the Admiralty, ao long as he was a civilian should be reduced, he (Captain Berkeley) would go out of the House and vote with him. Mr. C. WOOD regretted very gretted very much th a t th e Gallant Officer 1 SCHOOL rou. \\rms.—By the Auth o r ess o f had read the letter ' " Temptation." —This work belongs to that esti m abl e c l ass o f in novels, the aim of which is not merely to p resen t a v i v id or Sir C. NAPIER sa id h e was author i sed to do so. striking picture of society, but, also to convey lessons of d ee p es t Mr. C. WOOD th en regretted very much that the Gallant im ) Hance in e ard to the Hes of conduct in life, Officer had authorised the Gallant Commodore to read that practicaly which its ' happiness is r g ordinarily and easily affected. The, letter. Surely the Hon. and Gallant. Gentleman would not Authoress writes chiefly for her own sex, as the title both of deny that the Fiist Lord of the Admiralty was at liberty to this and her former production intimates, and she teaches how write to an Admiral on a foreign station, giving him information. ' on the one hand, by inconsiderate waywardness of temper, the Sir C. NAPIER—Orders.(A laugh.) fondest unions in that tesselated trial of marriage may be gre• Mr. C. WOOD was surprised that the Hon. and Gallant dually enfeebled and dissolved, while on the ether, an ha- Officer should talk about orders. Surely the Hon. and bitual cultivation of those delicate affectionate amiabilities Gallant Officer must be aware that no orders could be issued which should be ever associated with the character of woem.aon by any single Member of the Board of Admiralty, but First. rarely fail in rendering smooth even the roughest ways of d Lord was surely at liberty to write a private letter to Sir Robert Stopfore, giving him information, and Sir Robert Stopford enestic intercourse. The incidents by which she illusiorsaft,e,asrhieectr kindly lessons are spiritedly designed, and in situation s e otrasted disc could not be blamed for going to Candia on the information interest bring into action characters he lia:il received from Lord Matto. The Hon. and Gallant of most t n d tie. merits of similarity. In a word, both for its purttes,f; a mrives ,, Officer had said that he (Mr. C. Wood hadis fairly its vitaliser of execution, "The Sell 0, '" t all those who come stated Csat the Naval stores were in a most discreditable entitled to a cordial welcome am state. He (Mr. C. Wood) had said no more to-night than he ! within the circle of the i purls whontointgcsuntemplates.—Herald. had said three years ago when he was in office. Mr. A. C. ALLAN then proposed the adoption of a memorial founded upon the above resolution, to her Majesty, which was unanimously agreed to. A Committee was then appointed to carry the resolution into effect, and it was resolved that the proceedings of the meeting should be advertised in the Times, Sun, and Morning Advertiser. It was then proposed by 'Mr. JACKSON', and seconded by Mr. WARDLE, " That the best thanks of this meeting are due, and are hereby given to the Proprietors of The Sun newspaper, for their zealous exertions for the interests of the people, and more espe cially for the publicity giros to the proceedings of this parish." A vote of thanks was then given to the Chairman, and the meet. lug separated. 1 , .^ .:. , ad to ~ ,f