The Sun. — London, England, 1820-05-31 00:00:00

sitch was the wretched( ss of tl,eir condition, owing to the tleH tie of the braneho of manufactures in which they were -engaged, that nie aver4g, of their earoin,:., for font years !tad been no mote than der , vnce Three farthings per week.— T,,rosuip a• - dird the Groilemen who had laid agricultural St4ivthi'lltS fff (holes,: before the House, if they could produce ttuc thin 11l equal this? Petition flout Galashiels, a Petition from Dundee, and another fruit tt r Linen Mannfactoreis there. A similar P 'it ion from Forfar. Upiin these Mr. laherly intimated tl, , 1 he should virnpose a inci,stire. un sortie future nay, to allord the Linen trail, the protection to which it was entitled by the Articles of the Union. A Petition from Liverpool. presented be GerwralGascoi4ne, -- wloo no•oti,ned Ih-it the task lout devolved upon him in con sequence of the severe indisposition of his ;tight Hon. Col = u"c ) It was to the same effect as thy Lou dou_ Mcrehatit's and partieulatly specified a fire tii iiit!ia as a o,sirahtt object. `All these Petitions were re.'eived and laid on the Table. SCOTCH LAW ( (Wit:PS. Lord A. H.1:i111. that ice nelh-ved the Commis sion appointed to inquire into the .slate of the Law Court, of Scotland had- ceased. to exist, somewhat prematurely, and without executing its- duties. He wished to know front the Noble Lind t('astleicagli) if tins were the fart, and if Go• vernment were inclined to as before the House the Corre spondence between the Serre:ary of State for the Howe Department :ind the Board ? It not, he should feel it to he impeiative on him to submit a motion for the production of these - papers. Lord CASTLEREAGH said, if the Noble Lord would put the question to hint to-morrow, he would answer it. CRIMINAL LAWS. In consequence of the important bushiest, whicb stood for di,ictis.iinti Mk evening, sir JAS. NIACKINTOSH postponed till Monday the se cond readings of his three Bills to Offer the Criminal Code. Oa that night he would take the whole subject into view. Lord CASTLEREAGH, fur the sate reason, postponed till to-morrow the second reading of t.:e Alien Act. , - FINANCE. Mr. M,ABERLEY wished to put a question to the Right Bon, Chancellor iif tlre.Exchcquer,. He was dasirons to be informed what was the state ut the hattirce on the Consoli dated Fund tip to January, arid how the Right Hon. Gentle man intended to provide for the interest of the loans of which notice had been given ? •. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied, that the first question was a matter of aceonnt which the Hon. Gentleman iii;!:r readily ascertain; 'and with regard to the second, he begged to be eNcuoed from answering a question of that I, , nd, especially when a very few days would Wing it fully before the House. Mr. MABERLEY thought it important that the state of the Consolidated Fund should be distinctly understood before the Right Hon. Gentleman brought on his'annual measures, and more certain resolutions to that effect. Sir JOHN NEWPORT complained that the seconnts rela tive to Irchtid v,ere not yet before the liouse,'though they ought to have I tt vrodticed in Match. Mr. l':11 LEY then moved for an account of the Surplus of the Cu! Fund on the sth of January tal7, of the cliarges, and of the deficiencies, if any; for like accounts for the 3 - ears ending the sth Janiiare 1818, 1819, and 182 G; and for accounts of the Total Funded and Unfunded Debt Lit the same periods. HANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, these Accounts were all already before the House; butt on Mr. Miitierley replying th a t t h e y were not i n a f orm sulliciently ch , tinct to satisfy blur, no further opposition was made to his motions, which %vete ~,1 to. DNTREss. Air. liot.sre to! , e, agreeably to his no tice, to hrti, g the sonieet of the distress to which Al,ticoitote was reduced throughout the kingdom the view of the House. He wished that question of this iropot lance ntd been -introduced by a Member whose "minions would have bad greater authority than his ; that the Honourable Ntmber tot Essex had bsotight it forward, and gitien it the tvvh It of his sanction. For himself he esnold too have ventured to undertake the task had he not telt cents cell that the agricultural interests of the counts y were going to ruin, and that unless Parliament inter vied to arrest tharca lainity, odd sp e edily i n volv e ever y c i ao of the. coutmouity in the- same misery'. Whenever this subject was broached in the House, he observed it was said to bee gauntlet thrown down for con troversy, and that those Gentlemen conoected with matinfactures and conimerce took it up aS aimed at them, and gave every measure ot pro posed relief their most active opposition. He declared that he had no design against them. Ni' Mail could be more entirely convinced titan he was of the close and intimate connection that 'subsisted among these three great branches, and of lie truth that not one of them could be in ed wit hoot injury to the others. He came forward therefore not to take away from them, but simply to ask the Government and the lature to take the condition of the agricultu rists into 'heir consideration, as they had before done to 1815. At that period, upon an inquiry into their si!nation, protection had been extend• eta to them, and it was agreed that nothing less than the sum given, 80s. could make it possible for the tarrner to go Out and cultivate his land. The sole object of the Petitioners now was, not to demand more than the House had,thus given them as a reniw , eration necessary to enable them to bear up against the evils of their condition, but, to make it appext that the modes adopted to insure the desired result had utterly failed, and to beg the Honse to re-consider the question, and devise means for fulfilling its own purpose. They wished their case to be sent to a Committee, intending no doubt to follow this up by proposing measures which should afford them in reality the protection contemplated in the first instance. The language of the Petitioners, be woulik here notice, was throughout of the most proper kind. They had heard of Boroughmongering factions and clamourS of that sort, but these do cuments contained nothing allied to such outcries. The Petitioners were loyal and well-effected men, willing to bear their full share of the public burdens, and to the utmost limits of their power. They 'knew that if the war had entailed these burdens npon them, it had also -saved their lives and liberties, and all that was left to them. if he thought they entertained different principles, they n►us; linve sought elsewhere for an advocate. But it was replied by the manufacturer, our wants are equally pressing, and would he aggravated by a rise in the price of tl►e products of agriculture. Unless bread be cheap, we cannot he able to spe• ciliate in tot eign markets, and meet the competition of foreigners. This cry of cheap bread had been the source of the greatest evils to the country, and to the manufacturers themselves. If they looked for Ilse ses of the g enerfil depression, and for the remedy, it would not be necessary for him to dwell no the distresses of the agriculturists. These were notorious. It any gt•ntleman observed the coin - try from 1806 to 1814, he would notice that dor itt4 that period there had been a progressive ; energy and activity were the sources of a greatly increased cultivation and augmented produce. From the year 1814 the reverse had ituen the case; there had been a constant dete rioration, and last year she decline was most rapid. This was attributable to the sante causes as had induced the distress of other classes. A diminu tion of the war expenditure, including fifteen mil-, lions of taxation Annually, besides loans, was one of considerable importance.. He was surprised that an Hon. Member, whose talents on snhjects of political economy were so well known- (Mr. Ricardo) should have advanced an opinion that the Agriceitorists were not peculiat ty burdened, and were consequently not retitled to any peculiar relief. Was it not obvious that the whole weight of the Church Establishment lay upon the land-owners and cultivators ? eight•tenths ot poors' rates they also bore the charge. The coe»ty rates fell epon them, and the expense of the highways (exclusive of the turnpikes). He wondered the Hon. Gentleman could entertain a doubt on this matter ; still, however, they would be ablean stand their ground if not borne down by the laws professedly enacted for their protec tion. They only required to be protected against foreigners whom the burden of taxation preveeted them meeting fairly.—(Hear !)—Gentlemen may cry hear, het he would not fiiech trout that debt which bad:been contracted in rescuing them trete the worst tear could befal a people. It had been concerted on all bands that wheat could not be grown at less than 80e. But it could be imported from most parts ot Europe at 365. or 375• and might he obtained at one half the cost at which it could be produced at home. Then it was argued, get it where you can get it cheapest. Was any Gentleman prepared to look at the - consequence of this doctrine if acted upon ? That consequence would be, that ell 'he capital ens toyed in agri culture must be thrown into other channels, we would become totally dependant on foreigners for the support ot our existence, and the country, a g3tilet), would be converted into a desert. %Vas this a state to which any party of men would say we ought to be driven ? It had been stated that the average price of wheat had been 78s. since the - adoption of the measure of 1815, but he Main.. taitied that these averages were founded on iraed atsd deceptioti front beginning to end. Eve, y person engaged in agriculture knew that when they were made to appear at 78s. they weir obtaining no mote !leoi 725. in the market.— The peoitioners had not prayed for any si,ecttic remedy. They lead only stated a gen,ral gt iee ance, and pledged themselves, it admitted to the bar of the House, or before a Committee, I,g show that the provisions of the Act of 1815 were totally inefficient ; and that they had not beets more relieved by that measure than Hit hail not passed. He should not presume to point out what means :night alleviete the suf ferings of the agricelturists, wmild lease the important task of devising them to the Hotise. He then contended, • that the pe' , it ion lately pre sented by the Member for Taunton (Mr. Baring) contained many truisms and principles not appli cable to the subject. He could not nite.h praise the way in which it had been introduced to the House, for he considered that its sole object was to prejudice its opinion, and to serve as an auti doie to the petitions presented by the agricultural interest. It the Hou. Gentlemen by whom that petition had been presented wished to disguise his object, he had badly succeeded ; tor, whenever he had made any allusion to the subject of agri culture, lie had so far lost his discretion and tem per—(Hear, hear, from the Opposition !)—that it had been impossible for hint to treat thine to pics with civility. The distresses of the egricul twists should have screened then) from such treat ment. He was sorry be had trespassed s o long on the time of the House, and feared be must have oppeared to have lost the connection of w hat was inure perfectly arranged i n 1 1 4 mind when he had entered e but he should now at once come to his motion, which was, That the.scveral petitions presented to the. House on the subject of agri cultural distress he referred to a Select Commit.' tee to consider the matter thereof, and report thereon, Mr. Good; having the honour to represent a great agricultural comity, thought it doe to his constituents to state the grounds on which he should second this motion. He conceived that nothing could be more mischievous than an at tempt to separaue the interests of agriculturists front thole of other classes. lie did not deny that circumstances might have impr e ssed upon his mind a bias in favour of agriculture, but he should be the last mall to injure one class of individuals tp nut money into the pockets of another. The Bill passed in 1815 had fixed the importation price at 80 shillings, but it was so imperative, that, in stead of producing an average of 80 shillings, the average did not rise beyond 72 shilling's. Thi s was occasioned by the average being taken from the merchants who bought corn, and not from th e . _ _ farmers who sold it ; by the admission of certain districts where little corn was grown, and by the addition of the freight to the price of corn. All be should demand was, that the Bill of 1815 should be made complete to the purposes fur which it was passed. Agriculture was now en titled to the same attention paid to it by our an cestors. But how was it possible for British farmers, labouring under the weight of taxation. (Hear, bear, from the Opposition.)---to compete with the foreign farmer who paid no such taxes ? He did not pretend to decide on the propriety of heavy taxes, though in his opinion they were ne cessary, and the country could not do without them ; but be was certain that they could not be paid utiles. some protectiiin should be given to farmers, or the rents should be lowered.—(Hear, hear, bear o—Without some remedy the agricul twists would be unable to afford any share of support to the revenue. Mr. T. Itosmisox regretted that it should he come his duty to address the House under a degree of indisposition which must prevent him trom doing to the subject that justice which its import ance merited. He therefore threw himself on the indulgence of the House. Amongst the multifa rious questions which arose in these times, there was none which he conceived ought to be treated with more caution and less frequency than that which his Honourable Friend had brought this night before the House.—(Hear !)—ln all questions connected with the subsistence of the people, there was so much of interest, so much of prejudice and apprehension, that it in volved a most important consideration whether such a topic should be entertained. He con- fe9seci that he felt great regret that his Hon. Friend should have introduced the subject to the House. it was not yet two years since be bad felt it his duty, and his colleagues in the Govern ment had been of the sante opinion, to state that he did nor drink it necessary to alter the Corn Laws. He had said so, because so unequivocal a declaration on the part of Government would, be thought, prevent any interference with the stib ject. Such, indeed, had been the result obtained last year ; but a different course had since been adopted. It was known that great i►aius had )reel) taken in all parts of the country to impress far niers with the opinion that the Corn Bill had not been operative. Associations had been formed to collect, as it were, the whole Agricultural mind into one focus, and to infloce it to send a mass of petitions to that House. But in the manitestoes, for be could not call them otherwise, issued by an indi'vidual whose name was so conspicuous in those transactions, the case was stated in a most aggravated manner.—(Hear, hear !)—He did nut say, that great distress might not exist, but he might be allowed to express a doubt as to the imi vetsality of its operation. He had lately heard with pleasure a Noble Lord (Lord Laserlles) de clare, that in his county such distress did not exist. Round h►mself he did not see it. He did not see tenants leaving their farms, rents its arrear, or Poor Rates increasing.--(Hear, hear, hear t)-13,,t because he did not see all this around bill), he did not deny its existence in other places. That would be as absurd as it was for those who witnessed the spectacle of distress in their neigh bourhood to assume that it was universal. Not droymv, the existence of distress, it became ne- cessai y to erisidet, its manse and the remedy which might he applied Its immediate cause was cer tainly to b e tumid in the reduction Of price, and the dimitintion of demand i but the House would err in the applicatintt of a remedy, if it did not look narrowly a; the cause which had produced that reduction of price. It could not have been cleated tty any de ect inthe Corn Laws, and there fore mould Hot he remedied . by 'heir aherrtian. Th e extent and the nature at the eyei:ts of the late war ',ere, he conceited, the first cause of the pre-- set reduction or price The constmenees of [hat war bad in some conn7ries (lest iled capital this, they luau produced au a cumulation of i; which created a fict iti ,us increase of trade, maitufac , ures, and arrirulture, beyoud "11 natural proportions. Capital had thus been applied to the cultivation of the soil in a manuer which would never have been done ou tlet other circumstances. The result wtts, that land had been enltivatrd, the bad quality of vv biii would not,have paid in other times. There was no land, however inferior it might be, which could not be made to produce corn, if sufficient expense infmanure was incurred. But would any one say that legislative enactments should be passed to retain such land in cultivation ? His Honourable Friend had charged the law of 1815 with Haying proved ineffective, because it had no: producea a price of 80s. to farmers ; but this view of the law was very different from that which he (tvlr. It) entertained when be proposed the Bill. The opponents of the measure then urged that 80s. would be the minimum, whilst he con tended that it would form the maximum. If the law had therefore failed to produce a price of 801. to the farmers, if bad failed in that which it was never intended to produce.—(Hear !)—The chief effect which he bad expected from the Bill was, that by removing from farmers all apprehen sion of a boutoitess importation of foreign corn, it would lead to a wise application of capital to agricultural objects, and would have a tendency to lower rather than to raise the price. That the law did not produce 80 shillings was therefore no ground for altering its provisions. He held a statement of the quantity of foreign corn import ed during the last five years, by which it appeared that the wheat inmorted during that period amounted to 3,483.675 quarters. From this were to be deducted 324,546 quarters now in ware houses, and 770,437 quarters which had been re. exported, so that the quantity added to the con. sumotion of the country was 2,358,692 quarters, or 477.000 per annum. Yet notwithstanding this importation, the average price of corn during those very five years, and mulct the operation of a Bill which was represented as having ruined agri culture, was' 78s. 10d. In 1817 and 1818, im mediately after the unproductive harvest of 1816, 2,600,000 quarters of foreign corn had been im ported, and yet the average price of British corn had remained as high as 89s. 6d. Thii was,. lei it be remembered, during two years when im portation had risen to its greatest height. lie held also an account of the imports from 1792 to 1812, and found that the average was as neatly as possible, during seventeen of those years, 500,000 quarters annually, with an average price of 78s. 6(1. If that price was then sufficient to place farmers in that situation in which all must wish them to stand,' to enable them to cultivate the land with spirit, and with advantage to the landlord and to themselves, he saw no reason to suppose Ow it might not have the same effect now. The House were told of the universality of agricultural distress ; bur how could it be ascribed to the Corn Laws ? No foreign corn whatever had been introduced since February 1819, about fifteen months ago; and at that period there was scarcely one quarter of fo reign corn in private warehouses. Whatever might be the p►esent price of corn, it was therefore clear that it could not be charg ed to the ineffiCiency of the law. Was it a trifle that such applications should be constantly made to the House ?—(Hear, hear, hear !)—He thought it was a misfortune. He had never sup ported the Corn Bill as a positive good, but as a choice of evils. His Honourable Friend said, that the petitioners did not ask for any specific re medies. He thought that bad been intended ; but he felt much satisfaction at finding that the speci fic remedies recommended in the manifestoes to which he had alluded, had not been touched here. He meant that most unwise and extravagant pro posal of *a perman'ent duty of 40s. a quarter upon wheat.—(Hear, hear, hear !)—Such a duty might be tolerated in good years, but in bad seasons it could not. It would then be impossible for Go vernment to be carried on with it. And suppos ing a less sum to be taken, it would not answer the purpose of the agriculturists. Let twenty shillings, tor instance, be adopted, (and a duty to that amount might, perhaps, he tolerated), yet tvit4 this additifm, the price ot foreign corn would not exceed three pounds. Would this yield 4 1 0 protection to the f armers ? I t wou ld not . 11 0 plan was ther e fo re o f a ll ot h ers most calcukted produce the greatest possible mischief.—(H ear ' hear !)—Aluch stress had been laid on the que s. lion of averages. On this subject he though t corisidereble delusion prevailed. It was preterld e 11144 a mode of a v erage diff erent from that e 9 te * hlisced by the law were adopted, the price of 05 ' would be produced. With a view to sec th e effect of such an alteration, he bad procuted 4 . 3 avetage of th e 12 mar i t i me count i es f or t he 91 week , t ending on the 15 t h o f May 1820; t in a similar average for the same period, -embrlea i ing every m ar i t i me towo, and district. i h f average p, ice stated in the Gazette for the wee' ending on the 81h of April, and for the (we" maritime counties, was 70s. 3d. By the othe r mode it would have been 71e. The price of rye was 425. 7d. ; it would have been 445. That of barley was 355. 4d. ; it would have been 355- Id ' That of oats was 24s.fld. ; ,it would have. beer 245. The same result was found in five week., our of the six. Did not thi s prove t h at t he A4 ll "' culturists would derive no advantage bum th e proposed alteration ? Wlrat object could theY have therefore in ativocatiog what could do flora DO good, and would only serve to put the whole country in a state of agitation I—(Hear !)—1 1E it tVa. said, leave out the IVelch counties. N° 4 what would be the effect of this omission ? Welch counties were comprised in the Bth Dth maritime counties, and Monmooth , bire ed part of the lath. The Agricolturists w"r e taught to believe that the insertion of the Welch counties were enlarged, and that their omis!.i01:1 would lower the average. The fact was ihe re' sere. 1f those counties were °miffed, Y vroold find that the average price wool 1)e toeh,f. • The grounds on which they called for an alter , " trot) areas therefore one of the rteateS d 1.16' 1 ' 5 by which millious of men had ever bleu theeivra• He did not mean to say that the present of raking the averages was pettect. It ye k vet.' haps a choice of evils ; bop groiesq sum. _ t eat and decided advantage sh , rult be pro.ed ) 1 ' at , ainable, was it worth while to agitate t'e whole coon ry by the introduction .mich roes' lions ? Admitting the mode of t,ikiug the averag e to be imperfect, and even ir r involve co-ne or" !loft of fraud, might nor commi!ted in fivour of th. , ifu s i,st It had been proved at a late trial at that the object of the person accused was not to raise, hut to lower the price. Yet rite agr'cola twists seemed to fancy that all hands must be directed against !hem. The Honourable Mem" her who bad introduced the Motion Soppo.ed oat a great deal of foreign corn had been smagJel into the country. He (Mr. Robinson) did n ut know bow that could have happened, for Le had received no information to that effect at the ofiice to which be helonged.--(Hear knew that much alarm had been excited lest great iguana" ties of foreign corn should have been imported' 'from the Isle of Man, jersey, and Guernsey, the produce of those islands ; but he had lookea into the subject and h...d found that the stll 7 ` position was totally unfounded. There had al' ways been some Importation of corn from those' islands, to the amount of a few hundred quarters per annum, and it was just now the same as in former times.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—He had always been of opinion that none of the alters** . tions proposed could be useful to the agricul' wrists, or agreeable to the country. At tilt same time, he did not mean to say that fliers might not be sonie grounds for examining certaiet inferior points. It might be proper, though tie' was not aware of any necessity. to see whether the law which regulated the appointment of In' spectori might not be improved. That wroth; appointments bad been made he -was aware. Its one of the Welch .counties, the Inspector was a' Lady.—(Laughter.) —Rut this could not be [am" to the charge of the law. The law gave Oil' right of appointing Inspectors to Magistrates why then did not the latter select proper persons?' It was said that the salary was so small that ba few individuals would accept of such an office.---* But the law not only ordered that the should have five shillings for each report h e stio n lii make to the Comity, but einuoxere 4 the Magistrates, if that were not sufficient,. " P increase his allowance by a county rate. This' had not _yet been done, and the law had there' fore not had a fair trial. As to Warehousing fn" reign corn in this coon:ry, that hail, been le pre.° sewed as a.great evil, which kept the farmers ins' constant state of alarm, lest they should. be so► .. denly crushed by an oveipowerin4 inundaiion UE grain. But suppose the practice should not be 0 1 ' lowed, , what would be the effect ? It would b e to transfer that tremendous storm from one sid.e of the Channel to the other,—(llear, heart hear !)—abd as ships fl ew, it would be conveyea es rapidly frOrn the coast of aolland or France: a it would Irons that of Essex, to the port of 1.0" don.—(Hear, l►ear, hear !)—The only result would be to prevent the.employment of Britisb capital in the erection of warehouses. Had hi' Health allowed him, he should have entered more at length into the causes of the present distress' But he trusted that he had said enough to shoo t that he conceived its first cause to be the units" titral state to which the country had been raise r by the events of the l a st 25 ye ars . U nt il the fects of that state should have ceased to be felt, 1 would be quite in vain to suppose that any legi" latiye measure could raise the price of corn t° what it hail been. He lamented that persons %% 41° ' like the petitioners, were entitled to so much at' tention and respect, should have been so O r misled as to believe, that something should b° done, when nothing could be done. If, however, his Honourable Friend would confine his inquiry to such secondary points as he had mentioned, which the law might be deficient, he should I' o no objection to go into a C o mmittee. But 1 16 telt that he should not do his duty to himself, t, the Government with wh o m h e ac t e d, and to.t b . f o country which he endeavoured vainly to serve , he did not oppose any alteration in the preset' system of the Corn Laws.--(Loud cheering.) 4 . WBSTERN had the honour of representinr" a county which felt distress as little as any vet , and had more power of resi s ting ir, and yet e v r s there agriculture wa s decli n i ng . The Petitio ner expected some measure of a more prucecting " Art, 44. Pric trr ) _ t 114: • r i %flit n„ttt,