The Sun. — London, England, 1820-10-13 00:00:00

PARLIAMENTS HO USE OF LORDS-YESTERDAY. - THE QUEEN'S DEFENCE. [Ctntiltuation of Yesterday's Proceedings.] The following is the conclusion of the Exami nation of Lieutenant HowNAn':— Q.. The witness has mentioned, that he .saw this.Crede on his knees, asking her Royal High nesslslorgiveness ; did she forgive him ?—A. Yes ; ' she - did forgive him. Dties the witness recollect the words she made use •of-? No. ffrituess Examined by Lord FALMOUTH.. Q. The — witne.ss has stated that he has seen her Highness walking arm in .artn with Berga , mi Yes, in the garden at the Villa.d'l ste. Vas there any other person in company with her Royal Highness besides Liergami, on thoSe occasions'?—;--I do not recollect at any particular time .seeing them walking alone in the garden. Are you. positive you never saw them so Walk ing when Bergami was a courier ?—I do not re collect: • Then Mr. Hownam is not positive that he has not seer► thee► walking arm in arm together when Bergami was a courier ?—I never recollect seeing them so walking when Bergami was a courier. _ _ 1,3 y Lord HooD.—Did Baron Ompteda dine at the Princess's.tab.le - at Milan ?—I think he did. Did he at Como ?-11e did. Did h• at the Villa Villani ?—He did. Did Majocci wait at table on the Princess at these places ?—He did. . By the Duke of ATnor...—Have you not said you considered it necessary, in the. situation of the Princess of Wales on board the polaccarthat a male doMestic should sleep near her ?—I have. Did you ever express that sentiment to the Prin cess of Wales?--I never did. In giving your reasons why you did not think it degrading to. the station of her Royal thgli ness to have a male-domestic sleeping•in the tent with her, I think . you said that there was no mystery in the case, as the communication by the' hatchway to the tent was always open; you have said r that one. night in attempting to go up the hatchway you found the tent closed, did you tjiink there Was any mystery in that ?—The tent being closed, I supposed her Royal Highness had - retired. to rest ; I did not think there was any mystery in, that. Was. 13ergaroi iaa .the tent at that period ?—I did not see him—l do not know, and cannot tell. Do you knoW that he was not in the tent ? I do not. I think the witness has already spoken to Bei. 7 gami's "sleeping 'in the tent ?—(Several Peers cried" No, no.") You have already said you have heard, and you believed, that I3ergami .slept in the tent ; have 'you any reason to believe he was not in the tent when yoU found it clOsed 2- - -1 never thought about it ;' I thought nothing of it. You haire before said you never mentioned to her Royal 'Highness that you thought it necessary for a male domestic to sleep near her on deck ? Yes. Consequently you Could not be the recom m . ender of that measure;. did you think it neces sary for a male dornesticto sleep within the tent? I never represented either the one or the other. The' witness has already stated that he never represented to her' Royal Highness that_ it was necessary for a male servant to sleep near her Upon deck. Did you consider it necessary for a rnale;detnestic to sleep below the tent,?—l never represented one or the other. The-Witness has already said, that he thought it necessary that a male attendant should sleep near; her Roial Highness. Did he think it ne cossarythat a male domestic should sleep within the tent ?—I never thought of the thing at all; and probably, had there been nobody under . the tent, I should have taken as little notice of it as I should have taken when I heard there was I supposed it necessary. I thought it was neces sary. within myself. Was itnecessary for the safety of the Princess of Wales that a domestic should sleep under the tent ?—Her Royal 'Highness thought it so.. I did not think it otherwi.;e. The witness has already,stated that in his opi nion it was necessary ; but he did not communi cate that opinion to her Royal Highness. By the last answer it appears her Loyal Highness communicated it.to you ?—After the business at . Genoa, it was always a general remark made after that. What was the danger to be .apprehended on board the pOlacca ?—I do not know of any im mediate danger. Then the attendance of a male attendant to be near her Royal . Highness on that occasion, was not in consequence of any danger to be appre hended ? Mr. BROUGHAM.—" I beg to state to your Lordships that the witness never has stated that there was any immediate danger impending, al though he said there were 22. Sicilians and Ita lians on board." - The Duke of ATHOL.—Was there any danger ? I do not know of any immediate danger; if' I thought there was, I would not have slept below myself. • Was there any danger sufficient to have in givced you any time to recommend that a male attendantshould keep under the tent ?—I never did redOrnmend it. • Examined by LORD GRAtiTif,Ahi. Q. You have -stated, that at Carlsruhe the Princess has dined with . the Grand Duke and that she once dined with the Margravine, his Mother ; did you dine with the Princess on those occasions ?—A. I did. • You hive also stated, that the Princess sup- Fed with the Grand Duke-, and likewise with the AlargraOne ; did yet' sup with her ?—I did. At what o'clock did the .COurt at Carlsrtthe dine really cannot recollect about what hour ; it was late in the evening, I think. Ido not recollect the hour, to be able to mark it. Can yell say whether there was time between the conclusion of dinner and the commencement of evening parties, for her Royal Highness to re turn home before she, went out to supper ?-1 should imagine she might. Did she, upon any of those occasions, return home-between dinner and supper ?-1 do not re= collect. Will you undertake to say that she did not ? [ will undertake to say that I do not recollect :hat she ever, did. If I had the slightest recol lection of it, I would have no hesitation in giving the answer. rixaminecz :ay • LORD DAILLINTON. Q. I wish to call the recollection of the witness to the circumstance of Bergami, Camera, and Ma jocci, taking leave of the. Princess previous to their going on shore at Terracina. He states that when they took leave, each of them ki§sed the Princes:'s hand; I beg leave to ask whether he knows that Bergarni did or did not take leave of her Royal Highness befure he catne upon deck?—A. I do not know that he did. Did you see those three persons come upon deck, together ?—I think we were all upon► deck together ; Bergami, Camera, and Majocci ; every body was on deck. Did the Princess come on deck when you Were all there ?—.l do not recollect that the Princess remained below. Did you ever see Bergami take leave of the Princess in a different manner from the two other persons,?-,--1, have seen him take leave . more than once, and have never seen him do more than kiss her hand as others did. When you mention her, Royal,Highness sleep ing in the tent, I apprehend you mean by the use of the word slept, rather: that she reposed, than sleeping, in the general acceptation of., the word. I wish to know, whether you meant that she re posed with her clothes on ?—I do not believe she ever took her clothes off on board the polacca, except for the purpose of changing her dress, that, is my firm belief; I mean she did not take them off during the voyage from Jaffa, for in the voy age out, her Royal Highness always slept in the cabin. Mr. BROUGHAM, upon Mr. Gurney concluding' the reading of this answer, said, that three or four words had been left out by the short-hand writer. He did not mean to say intentionally, but four words had been left out which he considered ex tremely important. They were these, "to my firm belief." , Lord ENNISKILLEN said these words had ger.. taißly been used; Mr. Gurney, said he had taken down all he heard. The witness bad turned his head. away, and thus he• lost his last words. Examination resumed. Q. You stated that you di4 not seeßergam . - under thetent at night, but that you belieired he sl9pt there.; now, I- ask, if you- believe_he re .posed on the .other bed in the same manner as her Royal Highness did on the sofa; or if he took off ,his clothes and went to sleep in the ge, ueral acceptation of. the term ? The LOan CHANCELLOR said it was quiteirre gular to . ask a witness as to his belief ; this would lead to suppositinn, and it was very easy to pass from supposition to. imaginatioo. ,D 9 you know yrhether Bergami slePt or only reposed on the-other bed--do yod know whether he took oil His Oodles do not think he took off his clot o . S 'for f never saw any bed 'Clothes on. the _l)k:it :where he, was. Where dc( her Royal Highness change her clothes ou the voyage from Jaffa ?—I believe in the cabin; I never saw her change her clothes o❑ deck. Did you ever see - her• change her clothes any where ?—No. Did you ever see Mahomet perform a dance at the Villa &Este ;, Yes; -I was in her Royal Highness's room, having something to do, and heard a noise, in the. ,court-yard, and looked through the Window and saw him dancing. Where was Majocci at the time ?—I do not know ; all the servants were about the court yard. Was any other person in her Royal Highness's room besides yourself ?—I think not. Did you think that there was any indecency in the'dance you mention ?—Not in the least. - When did you see Capt. ; Briggs before you were examined here ?—Two months ago, at Portsmouth. Did any conversation, pass between you on the subject of this inquiry ?—No. Capt. Briggs de clined entering into any conversation on the sub ject. And you .have never had any conversation on this subject, to the best of your recollection, with Captain Briggs, since you were on board the Le viathan ?—Never. I have only seen Captain Briggs twice—once at Portsmouth, and once in this House. If you had any conversation with him, should you have recollected it ?—I think I should. Examiped by :Lord ELLENTIOnOUGII. . Q. You say Captain, Briggs deClined entering into any Conversation upon this inquiry—did you propose any such conversation The object of my going to Portsmouth . was to inform myself. What was your reason fOr wishing to converse with Captain *Briggs heard Captain Briggs was coming as a witnesaagainst the-Queen. I did not believe it, and went to ascertain- the fact. What, in point of fact, did 'you ask Captain Briggs ?—I asked him if he was coming as a wit . ness against the Queen. What was his answer ?—lle said he thought he might be called,—that he was afraid he should ; but-that his. .testimony should be nothing but what was honourable and just. Was that: the whole .of Captain Briggs' an sw.er ?----I think it was ; I do not recollect any thing more. • In that, answ:er. Captain Briggs does not appear to have declined entering into conversation on the subject ?—Captain - Briggs told me he could not enter into any conversation on the subject: Did you ask Captain Briggs to enter into any further conversation .?—I did not press Captain Briggs ; he said he was coming, and so forth. Diciyou see Captain Briggs on the day he vas examined in this House ?-2Yes. Were you present during his examination ?-4 was not. Had you any conversation with him at that me ?--..None but a few words—he shook my Land over the bannist6r, and he_ said he hoped we should. shake hands when he came out. - Was that the whole of the conversation ? Witk the exception of ". How do you dd." Did you ever see .the tent closed on the voy age from Jaffa during the day ?—t recollect see ing her Royal highness asleep during - the day, and myeelf closing the tent to protect her from the sun and so forth. Were those the only occasions on which you saw the tent closed during the day time ?—I do not recollect ever to have seen it closed except on such occasions'in the day time. How frequently have you seen it closed in the course of a week ?—I do not recollect ; it may have happened once ortidce ; I have no perfect recollection. When the tent was so closed, was any - person in the tent besides'her Royal :Highness ?—I can positively say, I never recollect to have seen any person ,under the tent 'litither Royal Highness %when it was so closed. Did you ever go into the dining-room durin,g the day when it was so closed ?—I do not re collect► At what hour were you in the habit of leaving the Alining-room during the evenibg ?—At eight or nine o'clock, or half-past nine. At what hour were you in the habit of return ing. Fto the dining-room, in the morning ?—We breakfasted about ten. Have you any personal knowledge, that during that period the hatch communicating with the tent ow deck was kept open ?-only from seeing it open. I have a thorough conviction it was never shut. What -was the supper time ?--No specific time was fixed; about nine or ten o'clock. What was the latest hour, you ever passed through the dining-room to go upon deck ? About ten er half-past ten. W hat was the latest hour of going on deck ? I cannot say exactly. Did you ever enter the dining-room, after the tent was closed ?—I never went into the dining room after the tent was closed. Then between nine in the morning and ten o'clock'at night, you had no opportunity of know ing whether the, hatchway was closed or shut ? I was in bed and asleep at the time, but r be lieve it was always open at night. When • you said yesterday, that you thought _ . there was nothing improperin Beiganli's sleeping under the tent with her Royal Highness with the hatchways open, you then were assuming a fact of which you had no personal knoWledge ? Question objected to. Doyou know the hatchway was always open • _ I have always seen the' doors of the dining-room open, and as I have stated before, Iran 'up in a late hour and found it open, and I never knew it to be shut at all. Could not the hatching have been opened with - Out the ladder being removed?----To have closed the hatching, the tent must have' been re moved; the tent was over the hatches. Did you ever see the hatches under the tent ? —N ever. Who slept in the dining-room on the voyage to Syracuse ?—I do not know, I have seen a bed there rolled up in the day time, but do not knoW who slept there. Where did Majocci sleep ?—ln the hold, I be lieve- Did Maur-ice Crede continue in the service of her Royaffligliness after he - was upon.his knees? —lie continued from the beginning of Novem ber, when this circumstance occurred, till the ,March following. _ Why did he leave the service ?---lie was sent as courier to the Margravine, the aunt of the Princess. Was the ten closed during the time-by the or der of Count Schiavani don't know. Was it completely closed during the day time can't say. Wilt you take upon yourself to say, that a person who swore that it. was! so closed would swear a falsehood cannot answer for any one else. Lord GREY.—Did ydu ever see it so closed during the, day, that any one passing might see distinctly what was within ?—No, I did not. The Marquis of Wimrsiiiat.—Are you quite sure that the hatches were beheath the tent ? To my knowledge they were not beneath the tent. Do you mean that they were not beneath the tent, or that you had no knowledge of their be ing so ?—I 'had no knowledge of their being so. Lord AUCKLAND.-Did you write your own challenge to the Baton Ompteda ?—I did. Was it in your own composition ?—lt was. Do you understand French ?—lt was written in English. Did you make aby copies of it, did you give copies to any one ?—I took no copies. Lord MANsFiErA.--Was there a companion to the hatches ?—There was not. Then there was no protection to them ?--There was not. Were the rest of the suite in the habit of using the hatchway . in the day time ?—They were. Lord Gno3VENOR.—If her Royal 'Highness had done any thing so outrageously indecent as to be seen by the master and mate of the vessel, kissing and embracing Bergarni, would it 'not have been matter of conversation on board ? The questioti was generally objected to. . Lord GROSVENOR.—As matter of belief was received from the witness, as to Bergawi sleep ing in the bed, he could not see why he should not state his belief on this point also. Lord LIVERPOOL said, that the witness might have a variety of reasons for his belief of a fact having occurred, but this was merely as to what conversation passed among the crew. Lord GROSVENOR said, such questions had been put on the other side. He then put t h e following question Could such a thing have occurred with °3t coming to your ears ? The LORD CIIANCELLOR thought the question could not be put. a Lord SoAtts.—You have - sttheti that you ar ced a long while with the Princess, and that it vi es t your opinion that the :kindness shewn by - hi t, Royal Highness to Bergami's family arose fro proper motives ; now, as the little child, the mother, the sister the brother, and the other 0" latives of Bergami were introduced into the fa ; mily, can you give any reasons Why his wife , the natural nurse of the child, was not lutt °- • duced The Lone CHANCELLOR said, it was for the witnesses to state facts, and for their Lords hiPi to reason on those facts ;'therefore such questia lif were improper. Mr. BROUGHAR.—There is no evidence thl t that child was the daughter of Bergami's wife' e Did not her Royal Highness, on the voY.'g from Syracuse, express great impatience to g,t on shore, as her legs , were very .much swe llel ; in consequence of her not having been ill be during the voyage ?—I remember that she dikl., s Do you know that her Royal Highness's le , were swelled ?—I never saw her Royal Iligb' ness's legs. 4 Lord LAUDERDALE.—Do you mean to say -411 her Royal Highness told you her legs *1 swelled ?---Yes, she did ; and she complained the long time she had been on board, tie4r O ft ' days, and of her excessive fatigue. She said ber legs were excessively swelled. Have you read the evidence in the newsprelf given in this case ?—I have not read the evidefi ct which I have given myself. Have you read Dumont's ?—Yes. And Majocci's ?—Yes. And Sacchi's ?—Part of it. not all. to Did any person point out the part for you, it read in the evidence of Sacchi ?—No, react as any one else would read. By whom were such passages selected for to 'read ? Mr. BR:IiIa:HAM here interfered—The witn e o 'f interfered— The had stated. that he read a part of the evidence "j Sacchi, that he did not say that he' iad selecte that part. t of $ The Marquess of LANSDOVN —I have read a lot :id, newspaper this morning, but I am sure it. will nut be 43 that I, therefore. selected that part.—(A laugh.; Earl GREY fully agreed with the Marquise of Lant al l, aruE the Earl of Lauderdale at length consented to ab 3l ' this line of cross-examination. Lord LAUDERDALE. , —Are-you a Knight of the Or d ' r° St. Caroline ?—1 ant. Have you a diploma as such ?—Yes. Can you produce it ?—I can. You said you arrived at Trieste at noon, and you qflit'' ore next evening between six and seven said between and six. Does your recollection lead yon to that fact, or does for e depend upon the letter you received from your wife ?--- 13t I had found the letter my recollection convinced me that was there only about twenty-four Did her Royal Highness send for some money at Trie ste I do not lsnw, she might have sent to a -baiiker. I, V • Yott have o said at Bellen Zona Bergatni first dined w't t, , Royal Highness; did be come into the room with her Highness, or after ?—Afterwards, and her Royal Hig". .__ . . . asked him to sit down. • . , ree ll ' ' Did he sit next to her _on .that .ihat occasion :—I don't re bee that. po you mean to say that you dii't remember • whtthr r I'4 sat next to her or not ?—I do certainly. ._ • 1 I he Did she sneak to him at dinner ?—Sln•Ntntke to bin' Here, but nothing in particular that f reeallect. Did you speak t o bun ?—Nu, I , ' ttliik ' l did mut, bu t I ° DM certain. . • - ' -. ' ''• ' h t Rd Did you ever sec Bergami's wife t'llfelable of her - Highness ?—I told yam I neve'e,sati - lii:r at all, , per: Were Volt ever at Villa sf',E,tq'Oi•Tilla Bergami Wi1': , ,,,• ' . . gami, when her Royal, HiginiesS . iya not - 'there ?---;• 1 , t its think I was at the Baruua - With' him when the Princes' not there. ; Jie j Has not Bergami waited at table when you have „ L e l 'with her Royal Highnesi ?—Yes; bat • not after her P Highness left Genoa. 10'4 .• . . Has Louis-Betgami also Wailed 'it; table vflren 1 141 . , dined ?—Yes. ' -'• ' • tir . Did you see Bergami, Louis Itergiiini; 'the Counte sg itte sister, his mother, and his neplieWs; at. her It or o i r ei t ' ness's table ?—I never saw 'the nephews t I have seen th e nce' Have you seen Bergamei wife there'?-4 sever sa't' ga Recollecting m wife in ou y lh a i. y fe ve dined at her Royal highness,, tai , t oo' whets Bergami has waited, and also that youLhave swor';.,,i ol 4 ' Bergami, to the best of your belief, slept under the t er ' , 00' het-Royal Highness from Syracusecri Cart Lanza, do Y" e t ' c itl l t ; mean to tav that her. Royal Highness's conduct was tieripo to proper, indecorous, or indecent ?—t had no greater el'/ iiils4 sit at her table than Bergami an'd his brother had• s hl i , seen persons sitting at her ?soya! Iliginress's tah le writ'l fathers have waited at her table ; and 'Wowing the il9l way her Royal Highness treated every p'6 - son in her ("I ti e t will yenta, e to say, that I never saw any conduct of lo"r . pi ' Highness that was at all improper or indecorous, nor ',° a , , conceive that Bergami's I;eiti under the tent could ble ,to - glued into filly thing criminal. fil e ' ft Lord LAUDERDALE requested the• short-bawl sr ils i , read some of the evidence given by the witness Ye't.`; It where the witness swears that a Dr. Mocatti dined sr ' , Royal Highness. V Who is Dr. Mocatti ?-1 - le is a Doctor of Physic a t tb ° • , Ill", lege at Como. He - practises also at' Como. • . Who is the Chevalier Cavaletti ? Viceroy of Italy, and was its Bonaparte H 's e s ' i v ii a t s e at Waterloo. ;,; I°' Was he often in her Rciyal Highness's ptesenee ' 2/ frequently. .2 nce s ' Besides Mocatti' and Cayaletti, who were at the ua • ,er I do not recollect any other name.r o a d i Do you think a Courier and a Lieutenant of the og ag t o equally entitled ta sit ist hes Majesty's tablevithlio, would authorise persons of a higher rank to sit doWn 2 a rail if ', The Duke of CLARENCE.— l'he witness, in his elo i ec ie f• tion of yesterday, entered into a minute statemen t °, is fs t i l ., , cuatstances of his father, I wish to hisow whether ',lot vin was ever in the service of any other prism% than th e l'', o ,e3sa mils , ?—I can only, speak fruits report ; I believe l'' e 5,, the service of Lady Charlotte Finch, of , her late ° ~,I Household. ent hlf The wittiest then stated that her Royal Highnes s , t i l er f , at Sicily to go to the Levant, does he know wile I‘jeAs Royal Highness had its her suite, except himself',:i o,'" Flynn, any body who was used to the sea ?-1 kil o' u cs i except one English sailor. her i tif P • Did the witness know front the beginning that a t •: ill Highness slept in the tent on leek?—Yes; s he beg a . u ,tcf L i ;i o Am Ito understand that from the first night she?- ,a, the tent he was fully aware of that circumstaneahe aware of it as far as I could be without actually see ' dic l: the sofa. . , l P c The witness being-aware that no one of ber 115011:le!:tt° ness's suite was used to the sea,. except himself 'attn. d rant Flynn, did he not offer to afford his as sists did o°,ol sleep under the tent with her Royal Highness' ? -- „ cal ao ° You have stated itl evidence that the English : 44 0 discharged, where was be discharged?—At At heit; ..... 9a 1) , ) , , i How long had-be been On hoard the 1 ,013(7 0 . ' 0 , or wish to know how lOng he had beau in the 'V ia' long-he had been in her Royal Highness's suite. inn' frl • In her suite ?—About two months. •, 1)o you know for what reasoshe was dischargetlL-;001';,4( sequence of a quarrel, and I believe -a fight w' , e ?-- 3 t Was there nu o th e r less o n fur his discbarb ,eo, •.- the 'l' heard of any. 4 y hen , it' p Lord cr.ILTHOHPE.—Do you recollect s's _,, ~ as re co j Was partially closed, and her Royal Highness .."; , : ce r ..o t o you remember, of having wren Bergin's; ?-- -4 ~,i „ bot, ' lected it being closed except when her !loyal K. r fallen asleep. . ~.....$O. Did you ever seesßergami on these occasions' g th e i 11 4 , Ik t q't