The Sun. — London, England, 1820-10-11 00:00:00

PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LOREP3,--TUESDAY. THE QUEEN'S DEFENCE. [CollittuatiOn of Yesterday's Proceedings.] The folloWing is the conclusion of the Exami nation of Lieutenant J 01124 FLYNN :-- A `PEER asked- the witness whether he kept the log-book for t h e oiiners - of the vessel or for himself ? •. • - • The Marquis of. LANSDONVIC wished the point pf law respecting..the reception of the document should be decided before any further examina, tion was entered npOn. , • . • The Loan, Cf-lAN CXLt.on. re-stated the La.w of Evidence from Phillips's Text teak, Which was ,that the COuniel could use a paper at the same • - moment it wai. referred to -by a. witness. As to ,the production of it as evidence,beyond mere re terencel—such parts of it as were not in . the hand writing of the witness, but in . that of ,another, Iniist be 'proved.to have been looked over by. him (the. Witness) and approved of at the time the other wrote them. • Lord ItEDESDA LE concurred in this exposition of the law. . , .• The witness was ,then recalled, and his exa mination resumed. by the Soitcyron"-GENERAL. I wish you, Sir, to produce that paper to, .whicli yon referred just now. Mr. DENNIAN. - -I advise Mr. Flynn not to give it unt of his own hands. The LORD CD AND ELEOR.—The paper must be under the eye of the Counsel while it is referred to by the %%itness.' Mr. DENit tN.--.--I.can have no objection to that, my Lord ; but it certainly must not be in my Learned Friend's'hand. The witness then,•laid the paper on his desk, . before Mr. Gurney, who sat between him and the' Solicitor-General. The latter continued to examine as follows s looking at the paper as he Went on : Q. What is the first entry here ?—A. The sth December. At what port?-At Messina. In, what language ?—The -Italian language. What is the next entry ?—The 16th. Where is that at ?—At St. Van, near Calabria. In what language?—The What is the 4th entry ?—The 6th January. Where ?—At Messina. In English or Italian ?—ln Italian. Where is the sth entry 2—On board the Clorinde. Is it in English or Italian ?—ln Italian. Where is the next entry?-The 29th January. Where is that ?—ln Syracuse. In what language ?—ltalian. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL proceeded step by step to follow the entries of the course of the voyage, and the stoppages at the several ports, all of , which were Italian. The SoLicrron-GEytaAL.--Witness look at the paper, and ,sty-whether from the beginning to the end of it, there is one single, solitary entry made in the English language. Witness.—No, I see there is not. Does it come down to the return to Messina ? Yes, it does. And every entry, from beginning to end, is in the Italian ?—Yes ; I see it is so. 'Now look at that paper closely, and say, upon your oath, whether any part is in your own hand writing ?—(The witness, after, looking over the paper, said) No, there is not. Were you on board the Clorinde ?—Yes, I was. Whose hand-writing is this ?—The, clerk's. What clerk ?—Pasquielli. Was not Pasquielli a confectioner in the ser 'ice of her. Royal Highness the Princess of Wales not this Pasquielli; he was ano ther of the same name. Was he of the crew of the polacca ?—No, he was not. Was not the man who wrote it one of the crew ? Yes, he was. - Was. not Pasquielli on board the British ship Lion three months ago ?— . -Yes,•he was; he went, with me from Messina as a pilot of the coast, and then was discharged. What beeithe of hiM after the . return from the long voyage do not knoW. • What became .of the polacca ?—I believe sh e went to Naples, but I do not know, for I went to Genoa. , Did the crew go in her ?—I do not know, I believe some part Ofthem might. • Where did .Pasquielli go to ?—I believe to, Messina. And Pasqhielli made the memorandum for you three months ago . ; did you not say yesterday that it was in.your hand-writing ?-1' do not. re member, but if I did, it was in, the cOnfusion of the moment. • Had you not the paper before you ?—I had it' not in my hand at the moment when I answered. Now, however, yott Say it was not in your hand-writing, but that Pasquielli wrote it Yes, by my, direction. . . • Will you swear that this is not the hand-writ ing of Schiavini ?—Yes, it is Schiavini's, hand writing.— (Loud expressions of astonishment throughout the House.) The SOLICITOit-GENERAL.---I have no further questions to ask this witness. Re-examination by Mr. DE:ix A. 14 You are'settled in Sicily . How longhave you been so ?—Six years. , When there,.are you in the habit of speaking English or Italian ?—ltalian. At the time you went on the voyage with, her Royal Highness the Princess of :Wales, were y ou so familiar, with the Italian as .you now ace Yes, more so than I am now. The clerk , you Ply you .do not know what • countryman he was believe be . was an:lta lian, but I do not know from what part. Did he speak 'ltalian - ?HYes. • Are you a Lieutenarit on .half-Pay of the Bri tish Navy ?z-•-.4.am. Were you examined at any time before you came to England, or w6.e any questinnsOut to . you respecting the conduct of her Royal High. ness ?—No. If you had received a notice to. that effect, could you'have brought the log-book with you , to England ?—Yes. . , Who copied the memorandum from the log book ?,-,-.P.asquielli. • ~ . . . . You have said the paper you hold in your, hand is the writing of Schiavini?Yes. When did Schia'vini write iti—A few-days ago. In what way did he write it I—By my dic tating, from a paper I had in my hand, which was that written by Pasquielli. Now, Mr. Flynn, be pleased- to carry back your recollection, to the outward voyage; you have.said that you,were sometimes called to at tend on her. Royal Highness to inform her about the state of the weather, and other things of that kind—when you were. called upon to wait on . her Royal Highness in the tent, had you occasion to pass through the room .where Bergami slept? —I went up the ladder into • the tent. . . What, sort of a tent was it ; was ita single or a double tent?---.[t was a single tent. Do you recollect the breadth of the vessel on the beam ?—About nineteen or twenty feet. Mr. Soucuroa-GENERAL.—" My Lords,. I have to beg, that tbat paper about which so much has been said, may remain in the posseision of the Clerk of this House." _ _ _ Mr. DENMAN begged, to observe, that neither he nor his Learned Friend had seen that paper before it was produced before the House, The Learned Gentleman was proceeding, when a loud cry of " Order, order,!" arose, and Mr. BROUGHAM got up amid increased cries of " Order, order !" and expressed himself to the. following effect If it is the pleasure of this House which is now sitting as a Court of Jus tice ; if it is the pleasure, I say, of this House to suffer one side to. deal in insinuations, and not to suffer the other to repel them, I can only say, that if such is the pleasure of the Court, I and my Learned Friend must of necessity submit to their decision." Earl GnEY rose, he said, merely to suggest to their Lordships that it would be more decorous, and more becoming in their Lordships, whenever they should think the Counsel Wlere out of order, to rise and state the objection; andnot perpetually call out " Order," which only tended to the dis turbance of the proceedings.—.(Loud cries of hear, hear!) Mr. IYENMAN.—To which I answer that we have never seen this paper, and, that before it is deposited in the hands of the officer, we should be furnished with a copy of it. The Loan CHANCELLOR—I apprehend, after what the witness has stated respecting this paper, that the House has a right to have it deposited with its Officer. Undoubtedly.it is perfectly fit that the Counsel on all sides should have access to it whenever they think. proper, and' be fur nished with copies if they think such necessary. The paper was then handed to Mr. Cowper, the Clerk of the House. The witness re-called, and examined by Lord KINGSTON. , Q. You say you fitted up the cabin—fitted up the Princess's cabin ?—A. Yes. What was the width of the door?—The doors were made to open both ways ; but believe about three feet and a half. What was the height ?—About six feet. What was the depth of the cabin ?—I cannot say precisely the depth of it ; I conceive it was about two and a half or three feet. Could not the bathing-tub of the Princess have been screwed into that cabin by any means? —No. If both doors were open ?—No ; half of it might have been got in, but not the whole. Describe why if half could be got in themhole could not.—There was not length enough in the cabin. What was the length of the cabin ?—As far as I can recollect it could not have' been more than ten feet, or ten feet and a half. What was the length of the Princess's bath ing-tub ?—Six feet, or nearly six feet. Do you mean to say that a tub of six feet length could not have been got into a cabiir ten feet and a half long ?--There was a sofa in the room. Was that sofa moveable ?—lt was moveable, but it never was moved. Was it fastened to the side ?—lt was. Could it not be removed ?—lt could have bee❑ removed, but it never was moved till her Ma jesty's disembarkation. Are you positive it never was removed ?—I am quite positive. What distance wets the sofa from the door ? About a foot and a half, or two feet at the most. And when the doors were thrown open, the bathing tub could not be put on one side of the sofa ?—Certainly not. Did you not say that the lights on deck were put' out for fear of piracy ?—After we came from Jaffa. Where •did the binnacle stand ?—By the mizen mast,-Sir"; just before the helmsman. Now is the binnacle all glass—all round ? Glass . in the fore-part, but not in the after-part. Were you not afraid of the pirates ?—The fore-part was generally kept open ; there was a small hole in the after-side 'also—a small hole just sufficient for the helmsman to look at the compass. What side was the door into the Princess's tent ?---T here was no door. Where, was the entrance ? 7 -r-All 'round ; by putting your hand to the lower part, you could turn it up. 'Whe.n you went to her,Royalilighness, where did you lift up the tent 2—The-after-part, close theduizen-mart. , When you lifted it up, could you: see all over the tent?.-- , With the reflection of the light from the'binnacle•l could. Will you' take upon yourself to swear that nobody was there but the Princess of Wales ? I can. You slept over the tiller ?—I did. . Could you hear from yoUr"hammock voices in :he tent of her Royal Highness ?—lf they spoke loud. . Did you not hear her Royal ; Highness when she called to you ; and why, were you obliged lift uif the tent depended tpon';the weather much whether I could hear or not. Could Yon `shea-rtif irvo: ,peisonS ., l4te conites:f ing in the tent ?--.NOt to know what they Were speaking. , Could you hear if two persons were talking ?—. I cOtild'keir theiriVOicei," but not what they said: I mean , from your cot or hammock ?—I did not always sleep in the hammock ; I slept part of the voyage id a cabin. And could you hear voices from the tent in per cabin ? Yes. Were, you ever down in the dining-room dur ing the night?--Not on the homeward voyage. Did you ever see any one sleep in the dining room at night never saw any . one there, I know there was a bed always there for Mr. Ber garni, and onoplorning I saw him there. You never saw him at night ?—I never went to see if he was in bed, it was not my duty. But when you went to the Princess when she called you, you passed through his cabin ?-1 only saw him once in the morning. But never at night ?-1 could not see him without going. back into a retired space, out of the straight road through the roorn. The Earl of DONOUGIIIIIOItE.-7-YOU say the memoranda of which you have made use here, were .taken from a larger paper of memoranda., not the log-book, pray are you in the habit of making Memoranda for similar purposes ?—They were for . my own use. Do you always take memorandums ?—Yes, I am usually in, the habit of znakiog them for my own private use. You said that you took the extracts from the large paper for the satisfaction of your friends ; what do you mean by that, what satisfaction did you mean to give them ?—When I was in Sicily I had occasion to see the public papers, and having heard that all who had bees with her Royal Highness would be recalled to England to give evidence, I took these extracts for the purpose of being able to give the information that would be required of me. Where did you first read that account in the papers ?—At Messina. When ?—About three months ago. At the time the reports reached you, you were about to depart from Messina was. And then you referred to the larger paper ? Yes. Having, brought the larger paper for that ex press purpose ?—Yes. , How long have,you been a Lieutenant in the Navy ?--Eleven Years-, May I ask what was the origin of the acquaint ance you had the,henonr to‘ierrn with this Illus trious Personage. who is the subject of this pro ceeding ?—After the siege -'of Gaeta, where I served as a .volunteer Mote than a year, I was sent to Rome, and thence to Naples, where I receiv ed private instructions to go on a secret expedi tion of the Neapolitan Government; to make in quiries after Murat, the Ex-King of Naples.— After having spent four, nights and four days in the woods, I gained intelligence of Murat, and I returned to Naples, and having delivered my re. ports to the Prince of Hesse, I returned to Messin. (This answer was delivered in parts, at inter vals, and was read over. to the House by the short-, hand writer.) You will perceive that 'is no answer to my question.—At Messina I was ordered to sail to Corfu; but before I sailed, the Leviathan, with Captain Briggs, came in, anti Captain Briggs hav ing introduced me to her Royal Highness, she offered me the command of the polacca, to ac company her on her voyage ; and having nothing to do, I accepted it. , Had you the entire command of that vessel 2 I had. ' You had the arrangement of the passengers, had you 'not ?—I certainly had. Did you conceive that you were the commander of the vessel ?—I conceived every one on board, of the, crew, were ,Subordinate to me, and were to obey the orders which 1 gave. While her Itoyil Highness was on board the . polacca, was it not as much under her own con trout, as.if it were her own house ?—Yes. Did 'the crew look up to her Royal Highness for orders ?--Yes, most assuredly. Were the places for sleeping arranged before you'commenced the voyage ?—Yes. In the situation the tent was placed, would not any person on board take care not to walk near it to disturb her Royal Highness ?—Yes, certainly. They would not walk nearer than their occupation or duty on board required them. It appeared that the Queen paid for the ves sel, Sir, I mean no disrespect to you when I ask, whether you received any remuneration ?—What were you to have as a recompence for your duties on board the polacca?—On the ship sailing from Sicily first, there was no arrangement, but on my arrival at Tunis,. I was allowed 2001. per annum by her Royal - Highness; she sent me some money, Ido not. know th e exact sum ; I did ob ject to receiving it, because I did not serve her from interested motives. What sum did you receive ?- 7 4 think 200 dol lars at the first time. You thought proper after to receive the mo ney, then 2—Yes, I was :'informed her Royal Highness would be offended if I did not. What did you receive, iu the' whole?---Three sums of 200 dollarS each. _ All'this 'yon' received during the voyage ? Yes. • Nothing since ?—No. Then you have received no part of the 2001. salary ?—No. At what places did you receive the money ? At Tunis,,St. Jean d'Acre, and Constantinople. How long have you been in England?—A month. Were yoti summoned to come and give evidence in the Queen's favour ?—No, I was not. D ort tal A t Did yoU believe, that yOU could giv e evidence in her favour ?-- 1 avi came te Engla t .".." o presented myself to her Majesty, hng u e ' a voyage with her. n o tice ° On your voyage out you tilabk mor e " b '-'th • c cultences on board the iolacca?A.l 7"; •-• stlvikßergatni mod on th % yoyagerA f o, Otiy - return lAthh.goilsg,a'aireetup iiing him hourly and momentarily. i ce he' . Lord DONOUGHMORE—Did you ma- - to iC rangements for the inward voyage ; We • the same as in the -outward. voyage ?--1 tw h " ls o Do you know where Bergami slept on turn home do not. How can you say, therefore, that he ut sleep under the tent ? Mr. 13nounn.km—My Lords, I cannot r this question. The Learned Counsel was 0 proceeding to object to the question, Li Duke of Clarence rose and moved, that the sel be ordered to witbdraw. Ly Counsel were ordered to withdraw. ti The Duke of CLARENCE rose to orueolisr said that the conduct of the 'Learned (.3qe was not suitable to the dignity of th e 11°u'n'oc having said, " that he -would not permit the 'bib tion." lie did not pretend to say (Goa °iv that Lords who were not Learned Lor( ls not be stopped by Counsel ; bat he tholle was the duty of the Counsel to trea t the ' a 5 , 1 , with proper respect, and to ask If su ch of questions ought to be put; not to say tll3t should not. Lord RE.DESDAtE said,it . was beneath the nity of the If °use - to interfere. ce ll" Lord ALBEMARLE said, that the Cool- a, been interrupted whilst he was reasoning, point. The Loan CHANCELLOR said, in tb e rio i stage of the proceedings it had bee n that Counsel might interpose if Noh le oi• shottld put anyvtestion to a witness vil% considered to be. improper. It was certo l ",l' it was the intention , of the Learned act upon this allowance; - but, at the sa nle n rd he did not consider that it was exact'!" roci in him to say, " I will not permit this fl u to be pat." t 0 ,0 Lord DONOUGHMORE thought their were much indebted to the iiinstrioasPe' - o. the gallery for his interference. At tile d' time he did not think that the oinrom°o'rr pression was used intentionally. It ter cord with the general respectful condoc`o4i the Learned Counsel had observed & 1..1in0: whole proceedings. What he meant !) the witness was—" having sworn, on I ° sc l rect examination, that you did not k nnsc a m 5., Bergami had slept on the voyage hoeiffiriil count how you are able to form a belief bef negative as to where he did not sleep on age homewards—that is under the tent I: t 4l ' t i! Mr. BROUGHAM said, he had 50 or ° y e t' felt it his painful' duty to object to O do r which had been proposed, and he was.' I/° claim the right of objections in the way '",„, s , he had done ; but be would return to hl and most agreeable phraseology, that Of° perfect deference to their Lordships. 5 1 1 The question was now put to the iv' answered as follows : From being called for to the tent free r e , her Majesty, and never seeing B e rgami t h e ,' You have stated then, in the day-tinaj, saw Bergami sitting upon the iron beds te der the tent ?—Yes, and other persons. t Do you conceive, then, he did not 516 4 at night, and why do you conceive so ?" -- yeti if he had been there, I must have see l li e d the light from the binnacle when I e n ter at night to speak to her Majesty. Have you not said, when asked if yo a id doubt of his sleeping there, by th e tte o‘ General, that you had other things to and could not form any Opinion ? . oti f (Here the cross-examination was the witness.) ur ge , , Mr. BnoucinAm objected to the cool" , by Lord Donoughmore. The LearneLl- to said the question assumed the w itne ss o o ; said what he never did say. The n'i t r n said first, that he kneW nothing about tb,es.pe but he had' been compelled . to state' t'l and then he said that, judging from Bergami could not have slept there , th is 4' Lord DONOUGHMORE then proposed lion, 46 that, according to the impress'"ce the witness had, why did he not at did that belief immediately, that Bergs" . o n o sleep there, in answer to the first quest( Solicitor-General?" The LORD CHANCELLOR objected• at o Lord DoNouGHMORE thenCOHSente up the question.—( Witness called ill.) . se e' Lord DONOUGHMOILE.—YOU e about an apprehension as to pirate s did, my Lord. •ter ° Repeat it.—Let the short-band wr l e sti l , (Here that part of the evidence wa s n r ioo ° When did you receive the inforo the pirates, at Athens ?—Yes. th e • Where did you begin to take a‘lai —After we left Jaffa. You first received the report at after you left Jaffa, took. the light a",,,TP .The information being, .cotiiiriped • er formation, being confirmed. Ol • ' Did you ever go into the tent :'--- into the tent. ri ve Where was the door of the te nt • no door to the tent. rein j But where was the opening opening in : front, t 5„ o s Did you ever look into the tee . 8 see • her Royal Highness Yes, 1 !loyal Highness in'the tent. Was she dressed'--Yes. off, And lying on the bed Yes, Fe: You have stated, that by the he r . 0 binnacle you were enabled to 'se. eir ?-- 10 `; Highness,in ,thotent wlrejt it w 0 9 . 9 1 ,'0 1 t it cli ° ) . Was it the:light from the I.YittOn.te ,ares t: to" yriii;dr free'' that 'oPP. 6 ,%, l .dsite 5 have beeir fit* . °Pi perhaps from both. fiaii 'et c Was tei e , )41•1 tbi 4 lilt 94r 14y 11 1 , ar, pik, ‘11; sic 1 0 , Pti .D Y