The Sun. — London, England, 1855-06-16 00:00:00

EAPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS—(YESTERDAY.) ROYAL COMMISSION. The Royal assent was given by commission to the fol lowing bills :—Newspaper Stamp ; Sewers House Drain age ; Registration of Births (Scotland) ; Ecclesiastical Property (Ireland) ; Brighton Incorporation ; Validity of Proceedings (House of Commons) ; Newport Corporation ; Kingston-upon-Thames Improvement ; Swansea Dock ; Cornwall Railway ; Dundee, Perth, and Aberdare Rail way ; Banff, Macduff, and Turriff Railway ; Swansea Vale Railway ; Bristol and Exeter Railway ; Hyde Gas (No. 3) ; Invernry and Old Meldrum Railway ; Liver pool Corporation ; Leominster and Ledbury Road ; Salisbury and Yeovil Railway ; Llynvi Valley and Bridgend Railway ; Commercial Road ; , Kingston upon-Hull, Heple, and Ferriby Road ; Abinglon Railway ; Plymouth Great Western Docks ; Oldham Gas and Water ; Madras Railway ; Birmingham Gas ; Hartlepool Gas and Wa ter ; Kelso Bridge ; St. George's Harbour Act Amendment ; Over Darwen Gas ; Ulster Railway ; Londonderry Improve ment ; Kilmarnock Gas ; Lancaster Water and Gas ; Ashton-under-Lyne Water ; Nottingham and Lough borough Railway ; Manchester Improvement ; Ren frew Police Improvement. The Lords' commissioners were the Lord Chancellor, the Earl of Harrowby, and the Duke of Argyll. Their lordships met at half-past ten this morning, when the Validity of Proceedings (House of Commons) Bill was passed through all its stages, and received amongst others the Royal assent, which was subsequently given by commission. SECOND READINGS. The following bills were read a second time : ch ar m:my Road ; Royal London Militia ; Dundalk and Black Rock Railway ; East of Abergavenny Estate. THIRD READINGS. The Waterford and Limerick Railway ; St. Helen's Improvement ; Coomford and High Peak Railway ; Limerick and Castleconnell Railway ; and the Neweas tle-under-Lyne Gas Bills were severally read a third time and passed. Lord BROUGHAM presented petitions against the sale of intoxicating liquors on the Sunday. GOVERNMENT OFFICES. Lord REDESDALE called attention to the return of all houses, buildings, &c., hired for official, purposes laid before the house on the sth inst. The noble lord said that the annual rental for public offices was about 22,0001. It was, however, quite evident that great economy might be effected if they had in one huge official building all those public offices concentrated. He believed Government was about to bring in a bill to enable them to purchase Downing street and the buildings adjoining. He could not, however, understand how this return was made out, and he ?vished further information upon the several parts. The noble lord having asked a question in respect of this return, proceeded to urge upon the Government the importance of considering certain details in respect to the purchase of the property required for the public buildings. Earl GRANVILLE, in reply, said that there were many difficulties in the way of carrying out the object which the Government had in view. A bill had already been introduced into the other house to enable the Government to purchase por tions of land in the neighbourhood of Downing street and Fludyer-street. The Committee that had met upon the subject had recommended that the whole of Downing-street and a portion of Flndyer-street should be bought by the Government. They also recommended that a portion of St. James's-park should be taken for the purpose of the buildink. The Government, how ever, did not think it advisable to advise her Majesty to assent to the latter recommendation, deeming it better to extend the ground in the neighbourhood of Fluyder street rather than to encroach upon the park. (Hear.) Plans had been laid before the Government, but the precise plan had not yet been decided upon. In this re spect the noble lord had shown himself to be an admini strative reformer, and he seemed to have the advantage over several others, as he appeared to have a tangible mode of carrying out his object. The Earl of HARDWICKE was understood to say that if the whole of the offices connected with the Ad miralty were concentrated within Somerset-house, he thought it would be a great advantage to the service. The Earl of MALMESBURY asked whether it was true that an offer had been made to build the whole of the public offices ? Earl GRANVILLE sa 1 ;t. was true that such an offer had been made, but u. Government declined the offer, thinking that, with the facilities of borrowing money at a small rate of interest, they could build the public offices much more economically. After a short conversation the subject dropped. RELIGIOUS WORSHIP BILL. The Earl of SHAFTESBURY moved the recommit ment of the Religious Worship Bill, for the purpose of making an amendment, to the effect that nothing con tained in the act should prejudice or affect the discipline of the Church, or the enforcement thereof by the bishop or other ecclesiastical authority. The Earl of DERBY thought that their lordships should not abolislethe law, and sweep away all restric tions whatever, in the summary mode proposed by the bill - they ought fi rst to inquire into its practical work inw;secertmtt the - iiiririt actually produced, and the good it really prevented. He was not prepareA to sanction the doctrine that every man in the Church of England was entitled to take on himself those functions, which divine authority in the first instance, and legal sanction afterwards, had placed in the hands of men specially set apart for the purpose. No doubt in populous parishes it was desirable that the clew should have the assistance of pious laymen in the discharge of their charitable and religious duties. But, then, he thought that the laymen thus co-operating should be assistants, and not set-up rivals of the clergy, acting without the authority of the bishop or of the clergyman of the parish. Take away all restrictions on this head, and he believed the effect, especially in the present unfortunate state of the Church, would be to introduce the elements of dis cord into the small country parishes, where happily there was now free and intimate communication between the clergyman and his parishioners. The noble earl con cluded by moving "that a select committee be appointed to inquire into the existing state of the law with regard to the liberty of religious worship, and the expediency of relaxing or dispensing with the provisions of an act passed in the first year of King William and Queen Mary, cap. 18." Earl GRANVILLE did not think that the repeal of the present law would have the slightest effect upon the Church of England, while he was convinced that it was a serious evil to retain on the statute-book a law which could not be enforced.. and which was habitually violated by the most respectable and religious persons Lord CONGLETON briefly supported the bill. The Bishop of OXFORD did not wish to prevent any meetings for religious worship. All he desired was, that the persons conducting them should be obliged simply to say whether they conducted them in opposition to or in communion with the Established Church. The Earl of SHAFTESBURY protested that he had been most unjustly charged with a design of superseding the parochial clergy, and giving to laymen the powers of executing Ministerial functions, and that there was not a word in the bill which could lend countenance to this charge. It was simply and solely to give power to the Nonconformists, and to the laity of the Church of England, to meet in greater numbers than 20 in the household of any person under whose roof they were permitted to meet. Their lordships then divided. The numbers were— For the amendment 47 Against it 3O Majority for the amendment —l7 Their lordships shortly afterwards adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS_(YESTERDAY.) The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock. The Hedon and Hull, &c., Road Bill, and the Shrews bury Improvement Bill were considered and ordered to be read a third time. MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS. Mr. PcrLmAN, Yeoman Usher of the Black Rod, here appeared at the bar, and summoned the house to the House of Lords, to hear the Royal assent given to various bills, for which see our Lords' report. PETITIONS. Petitions were presented by Mr. Duncan, from a place in Scotland, against the Maynooth grant ; by Mr. Kirk, from Newry, for vote by ballot ; by Mr. Pellatt, two pe titions from Bermondsey against the Sunday Trading Bill ; by Mr. Hadfield, from Derbyshire, in favour of closing public-houses on Sundays, also petitions against money grants for educational purposes as regarded sects ; by Mr. Duncombe, two petitions from Finsbury, in favour of administrative reform ; by Mr. Col lier, from Plymouth, against the sale of intoxicat ing drinks on Sunday ; by Mr. Bright, from the Chamber of Commerce, Manchester, against the Limited Liability of Partnership Bill. THAMES MARSH DRAINAGE. On the motion of Mr. M. SMITH, a return, in detail, of the expenses included under the sum of 5951. 19s. 2d., respecting the Thames Marsh drainage, paid to Mr. T. W. Rammell, C.E., and charged in the Civil Contin gencies Account for 1851, and copy of the instructions under which Mr. Rammell acted, were ordered. CRIMINAL LAW, &c. BILL. On the motion of Mr. L. KING returns of all fees or emoluments allotted or paid for drafting or settling any bi n l 4 9 relating to criminal law, since the payment of ;7.51.t0 the late Criminal Law Commission (in continuationof Parliamentary p aper No. 210, of session 1855) ; of th e num b er and nature of Leh billsand of the namee and respective remuneration of the draftsmen of such bills ; and, of the costs of drawing the Bribe ry Bill and Controverted El ections Bill of 1854 , the or names of the draft smen, the fund out of which, name or ntheye were paid, and the sum received by each. SEPOY TROOPS FOR VICTORIA. In answer to Mr. G. DUNDAS, Lord J. RUSSELL said he had not heard if an y Sepoy or Indian troo p s bad been sen t , or were about to be sent, to the colony HE of Victoria. T ORDNANCE. Colonel DUNNE asked the Clerk of the Ordnance whether he would (b efore the next reading of the O r d. ranee Board Bill) lay o n the table of the house a sta meet of the changes which the Government intendeatteO make in that departraent ; the offices which it was intended should be abolished, and these which it was proposed either to create or substitute ; together with the amount of the salaries for such new offices, and an estimate of any _expenditure consequent on the prop osed chan g es. Mr. MONSELL said he would refer his hon. and gallant friend to an order in Council of the 4th June, l aid on the table of the house, which would explain the iftiOter. SIR JAMES BROOKE. - Mr DRIJNIM.OND asked the First Lord of the Tres fury why the report of the commissioners, respecting THE SUN, LONDON SATURDAY EVENING, JUNE 16, 1855. a reference had once been made to the subject, all the par ticulars could have been known to the house. The motion for the adjournment was then agreed to. On the motion of Lord PALMERSTON, the orders of the day were postponed until after Mr. Layerd's motion had been brought forward. ADMINISTRATIVE REFORM. Mr. LAYARD then rose and moved the following reso lution:—" That this house views with deep and increasing concern the state of the nation, and is of opinion that the manner in which merit and efficiency have been sacrificed, in public appointments, to party and family influences, and to a blind adherence to routine, has given rise to great mis fortunes, and threatens to bring discredit upon the national character, and to involve the country in grave disasters! , The hon. gentleman said :—I am more in need than usual this evening of the kind indulgence of the house, both because I am afraid I shall have to trespass upon it for a considerable time, and because the question is one which, under any circumstances, might perhaps give rise to feel ings of irritation upon the part of some members of the house. It is, however, my especial wish to treat the ques tion in as moderate'a manner as possible, and I shall there fore prefer reading such documents as I possess to express ing any strong opinions of my own upon the subjects I shall have to bring forward. This question is one of far too serious a nature for me to make any appeal to the pas sions in discussing it, even had 1 the power and the elo quence necessary for ine to do so. I wish merely to make a plain straightforward statement. (Hear, hear.) It can not be denied that a general feeling is abroad that there is something wrong in the administrative system and the Go vernment of this country—that there are great evils in that administrative system which can only be remedied by some kind of pressure from without. I will endeavour, as concisely as possible to state the grounds upon which the people of this country have come to that conclusion. It will be for Her Majesty's Government to show whether these grounds are correct—that conclusion justi fiable or not ; and it will rest with these gentlemen who represent various branches of the public service in this house to show how far the country is right in believing that the departments with which they are connected are not properly administered. Ishall endeavour to say nothing which will hurt the feelings of any of the right hon. orhon. and gallant members present, and I think that they on their part will permit me to state what I think without attri buting to me any improper motives, for I assure them, with the deepest feelings of conscientious conviction, that my only wish is to promote the general good. If the hon. and gallant member for Weymouth (Colonel Freestun)is in the house I trust he will justify his statement that things which I have said are not true, and that be will take a course in better taste than that which he has lately adopted. My resolution contains three distinct propositions. First, it states that the house views with deep concern the state of the nation; it points out, secondly, the feelings of the nation; and thirdly, what will be thseconsequences if the present state of things continues to exist. An amendment has been given notice of by my hon. friend opposite (Sir B. Lytton)— if the hon. baronet will allow me to call him so— somewhat of a similar nature to a motion which wasbrought by a noble lord before another assembly when I gave notice of my resolution. The noble lord to whom I allude felt it, necessary to place the sentiments he entertained in a some what palateable shape before that assembly, and I believe the hon. baronet has now acted under a similar feeling, and, following the advice of the Italian poet, has anointed the edge of the jar with honey in order that his friends may more readily swallow the dose he is about to ad minister. I have endeavoured to call things by their right names, for I think this country has been placed in consider able danger from that not having been done. I also think that danger threatens this country from too great respect being paid to personal and private feelings. (Laughter.) Perhaps hon, gentlemen, before they laugh, will allow me to explain my meaning. Those feelings are very right and necessary in private affairs, and no one can respect them more than I do; but those who put aside public duty out of consideration for them neglect their duty. If private feelings are t o be put before public duty we ought to debate questions in this house with closed doors. If we are to be erevented from saying what we believe to be true for fear of lanrting some one's feelings, reports of our proceedings ought not to go forth. What should we say if a judge did not use harsh words in condemning a criminal for fear he should hurt his feelings? There are cases in which we all agree that condemnation to some extent is necessary, but if harsh phrases are used in expressing that condemnation they are received with public disapprobation. I trust I shall do my duty in that respect. I will endeavour to be moderate. I will state facts ; if I am wrong I hope hon. and gallant gentlemen will tell me so without any irritating expres sions, and I trust they will not find me unwilling to admit the errors I may have fallen into. (Cheers.) It was said that the debate in another place led to nothing because the speeches made dealt solely in generalities and no instances were adduced; but, when instances are adduced, then it is said, these are merely vulgar personal accusations which do not prove your cases We are thus placed in a double difficulty. No doubt the noble lord at the head of the Government will say this evening, as ho has done upon former occasions, that this is a mere attack upon the aris tocracy. The noble lord is weleome to say that I am at tacking an oligarchy, but I utterly deny that I am making any attack upon the aristocracy. I only wish that every man should have a fair chance of rising in the public .ser vice of the country. (Hear.) Although the words of my hon. friend's resolution are not exactly the same as those of my motion, yet, if they mean anything, they must mean precisely the same thing. He asks the house to recom mend the Government to institute judicious tests of merit, and to remove obstructions to its fair promotion and legi timate rewards. That must moan that at the present mo ment there are no such tests and there are such obstructions. Then comes the question, what are those obstructions? Do not think that by voting for this amendment you are escaping the difficulty which the amendment is moved to enable you to escape, because its meaning is exactly th e same as that which I have embodied in my resolution. Why should we flinch from naming the things which we considei as obstructions to merit ? Why should we shrink from stating that a man cannot rise in the public service of the country on account of the obstructions proceeding from party and family interests ? That is the chief evil of which we complain. There is no use in denying that. Such, at any rate, is the feeling out of doors. If that feeling is not justified, it is surely well worthy of this house, if possible, to remove that feeling. For myself, I am willing that this feeling shall be removed. All I say is that this feeling does exist. (Hear, hear.) Nor is that feeling confined to a small and insignificant class; it is especially characterised by being prevalent among the most educated class in this country. My avocations and antecedents throw me a good deal among men connected with literature, art, and science, and I will ask any man frequenting that society, whether the feeling I have de scribed does not prevail among these men ? (Hear, hear.) Now, I do not say that the feeling is altogether war ranted,:although I believe it is, and as it prevails among the class I have named it must prevail among the class below that, and it is, as I have said, so extensive and so general that it is well worth the time and attention of the house to endeavour to remove it if it can be proved to be ill-founded. It must be known to the house that a large and powerful association has been formed to investigate this question, comprising among its, members many men of wealth, of talent, and of enterprise. The opinions of that association have been re-echoed in the largest towns of the country, and that association is determined to pied] the doctrines and opinions enunciated in its address. Now, such an agitation may lead to great mischief. Notice has been given of another amendment by the hon. member for Cork, but, as it is not on the paper for to-night, I pre sume it is the hon. member's intention to bring it for ward on some future occasion. The house will permit me to say one word upon my own resolution, as it has been misunderstood in some respects. I believe that it stands, if not in the same shape, yet with the same inten tion as when I first placed it upon the books of the house. I have cut off a phrase which pledged this house to the pro secution of the war, because such an allusion was unneces sary after the motion of the right hon. gentleman opposite (Mr. Disraeli). A few words in the way of recital have also been left out, but the words and essence of the resolution have been maintained. There are three propositions in that resolution, and I shall endeavour to substantiate each of them. I will first take the state of the nation. I have heard it said that these words are now uncalled for, be cause we have-had some success in the East, but I deny that I ever intended to refer to the war. I look upon the e campaign in the Crimea as an episode, upon our failure as a witness, and to the blue-hooks as evidence; but they form only a part, and but a small part, of the question before the house. But if the blue-books, that contain so much that must be painful to the house and to the country, are to remain dead letters, then our cup of disgrace will be full indeed, and I hope that something will be done upon those blue-books irrespective of my motion. (Hear, hear.) What I mean by the state of the nation is, that I am fully convinced that this country is becoming very distrustful of this house, and is losing its confidence in public men; that the people begin to believe there are great defects in the , administrative system, and 'hat a remedy must be applied to those defects ; that the Government of this country has become a class monopoly, and that the recent changes in the Government show that that monopoly does not go out of the hands of a few—(Hear)—and that the Government do not represent the country at large. (Hear.) They see a liberal Government voting against every liberal mea sure that has been proposed this session, and voting in the lobby on all these Questions with hon. members sitting on the opposite side of the house, in contradistinction to the Liberal party on this side of the house. (Hear, hear.) They have also seen those who have hitherto been the friends of the people, and who have represented popular opinions, absorbed in the Government and remaining mute and silent upon those opinions. (Hear, hear.) Is it then astonishing that the confidence of the people has waned with regard to public men? They have been so often be trayed by public men that I am not surprised that confi dance in them is so much shaken. The country thinks that the great offices of State are sacrificed to the interests of party, and that the public service has been neglected, and to this they trace the disasters that hake taken place. Now, sir, I ask w h e th er that is not a state of the nation that is alarmi ng , an d w h ether such a feeling is not danger ous ? (Hear.) That is whit I mean by the state of the nation, and I say let us if possible remove these impressions. I propose to look into three departments—the army, as that branch to which is confided the honour and defence of the country, the diplomatic and consular service, to which the conduct of foreign affairs is intrusted ; and the civil service, which has the conduct of national affairs at home. Sir, to begin with the army. This is, undoubtedly, a very difficult and delicate question. I know that hon, and gallant gentlemen in this house feel very indignant that a civilian should touch the army, but I ask the house whe ther any but a civilian can touch the army ? Why, a mili tary man dare not touch the army. There is no doubt I may be led into error when I speak of the army. The rules and regulations that affect the army have been a matter of some study to me, but I may be pardoned for some misapprehensions when even very eminent military men are ignorant of some of the rules and their application —nay, even of the very existence of some of the regula tions affecting the army. I hold in my hand a letter from a gentleman of seine rank in the army, whose name the house will see I cannot mention, and I cannot, therefore, give my authority; but this letter expresses so fully my and the He ay e existing state of things that I will r°evia feelings t t i o n g the s house. " A civilian, undertaking, as you have done, to attack military abuses so deeply rooted, and of such long standing as those which disgrace our service, is (as you very justly re mark) placed in a particularly difficult position ; for, unac itinutarlncatecidesa s w y h o i ti c h p s e o r m h a e p t i s m a e r s e e vr , i e t n h p u all e t h p e r minor n a d l e m t a e i n l y a u d are not able to receive open assistance and evidence, which would probably be the ruin of any military man who might volunteer to enact such a Curtian part ; and many a man who might be indifferent to the consequences as regarded himself, might feel averse to sacrifice the prospects of some near rela tion, who might either be, or be intended to be, in the mili tary profession, and whose future prospects might thus be prematurely blighted in the bud. Then, again, you will have against you all those military men of family connection and great interest who, having profited by a corrupt system, will strenuously oppose any reform or innovation in the same. All these circumstances combined render your task one of no ordi nary diffi ,ulty; still I would not despair for you have not only the spirit of the times and public opinion in your favour, but als 3 all that hard-working and ill-rewarded portion of the army, who have not sufficient interest or family connexions to push them unfairly forwards. All such, if they dare not openly applaud, will look with secret pleasure on your undertaking, and, lam sure, back it indirectly by any means which will not bring them under the influence of that inquisitorial tribunal which can more or less influence the fortunes of nearly every officer in the service, whatever may be his merits, in the same man ner that it can by its fiat place men, most unfitted, in the highest and most responsible situations, which has unfortu nately of latt‘been so fully and fatally proved." (Cheers.) Sir, I believe that letter eminently expresses the whole truth of this question with regard to the army. (Hear.) But I have another letter from an eminent mili tary man, whose name I am permitted to mention—Sir W. Napier. (Hear.) I have spared no pains to go to the best military authorities before I ventured to touch upon this subject. • Sir W. Napier's letter is most fair and proper and, although it tells against me in some respects, I will draw the attention of the house to it. He says : " The question of promotion from merit and promotion from favouritism I have never examined carefully, thinking the latter an inevitable consequence of human selfishness, and the former impossible to solve, except in a few instances. With respect to favouritism generally, however, it certainly pervades the British army to an inordinate degree, seeing that no officer of high or low rank, no man below the rank of an officer, no civilian related to or interested for an officer by re lationship or friendship, or seeking himself to enter the army, "ut whose first thought and immediate course is, not very vehemently, to beseech some person privately to use influence to obtain by favour what is sought for. The Universal con stant prayer is, ' Let me have your interest.' Sometimes, in deed, some poor forlorn officer merely states his long and ardu ous services, his wounds, and the number of his relations who have died in action ; but this only to sway the influential per son addressed, not as grounds for acceding to his claim. Why is this ? Surely because the absolute necessity of paivate interests, apart from merit, is universally felt to be domi nant. Your purpose is to bring public opinion to bear on this system so strongly that an amelioration must take place, and I for one will not shrink from cheering you on in such a pa triotic course. But while Ido so on general principles it would be ungenerous, ungrateful, and unjust not to state that I have made, I may say, hundreds of applications for officers and soldiers, who have only their services to recom mend them—favour without service I never asked for—and, while LordAlaglan was Military Secretary, in no instance did I ever fail of success, nor have I in the very few cases which I have brought before General Yorke, the present Military Secretary, found the least backwardness to aid deserving men," (Cheers.) If I were not addressing the house I should cheer that sentiment as much as any man, but, although that sentiment may tell against me, it is the very thing I am arguing. Sir William Napier is a great military authority. He has access to the Horse Guards. He can recommend persons. Fortunately, his soul abhors a job, and he would never recommend any one for promotion who is unworthy of it. (Hear.) If every promotion went in the same was I should not complain. If I saw promotions made upon the recommendation of esuch men as Sir W. Napier, or that gallant general who so much adorns this house, or any man equally distinguished and equally pure, I should have no doubt whatever of the propriety of those appointments. That is not what we complain of, or are disposed to call in question. (Hear.) A curious word occurs in the regula tion which affects the very commencement of every man's career in the army. That regulation is, that all recom mendations for commissions shall certify the eligibility of the person in respect to education, character, and " con nections." I do not really understand what is the mean ing of the word " connections," unless it be in relationship to persons of a certain position. (" Oh, oh !") I shall be very happy if hon. gentlemen will explain it. I have no wish to put a wrong construction upon it ; I merely take the word as it stands. (Hear, hear.) Before I go into the several cases to which I shall call the attention of the house, I must beg their indulgence while I say a few words upon a rpersonal subject. I do not suppose the house is forgetful of what occurred some time ago with regard to myself and Colonel Harding°. Up to this moment it has not been in my power to explain this matter fully. When the questioi was brought forward I was not prepared to meet it. I had received but a very short notice from the gallant member that he intended to bring it forward, and other reasons prevented me entering then upon a full ex planation. Those reasons no longer exist. Colonel Wilson has retired from the army; and the country has lost the services of an eminent and gallant officer, who distin guished himself as much as any one on the fatal day of Inkerman, who was in the thickest of the fight, who brought his company into action from the two-gun bat tery, and was one of the very few that survived. He has left her Majesty's service. It is a matter of regret to me, because I am partly the cause ; but I am not to blame. I wish merely to state to the house this case of Colonel Wilson, because it eminently illustrates my proposition, and I will state it as fairly as I can, having taken great pains to obtain accuracy by most care ful inquiries on all sides. I hope the house will under stand that I will never be a party to, deceiving it in any way whatever, tot even if I could appeal to 37 years' expe rience in Parliament. (Hear.) The house will believe me when I say that if I state anything it is from a conviction that it is true. I may be wrong, and, if the error is pointed out in a fair and quiet manner, I shall be the first to retract. Upon the occasion to which I allude I did not believe that I had stated that which was not strictly true, though I felt I was not in a position to prove it. I would not, therefore, retract, not from any want of respect to the house, butsbe cause I respected the house, and would not give it the impression that I had stated anything which I knew to be inaccurate? (Hear.) What was the case of Col. Wilson? Three officers, captains and lieutenant-colonels in the Guards, were killed in action. The three officers next in rank were entitled to promotion. Two of those officers were not for purchase, and they were promoted' The third was tor purchase, Col. M'Kinnon, and he was also promoted. Colonel Iligiinnon ' whose promotion was purchased, was killed. He had not heard of the purchase at the time of his death, and a regulation operated which was unknown to Col. Wilson, and was unknown to many officers in the army. Col. Wilson's friends were called upon to purchase the commission. He was then ill in the hospital at Scutari. He thought he had got his commission withopt purchase. It proved not to be so. His friends had paid the money, and he found himself g Lzetted by purchase. He thought, considering the circumstances, he might have had the op tion of purchasing or not. However, that courtesy was not shown Col. Wilson, and the rule seems to have been strictly applied. I had what I considered the best possible proof that I was not understating the case of the Guards. I am not satisfied, though I quite admit I was wrong. Col. Crombie was put on half-pay, Lord Burghersh was promoted without purchase, and Col. Hardinge got his step. The house will see there were rules, and the rules were applied, and when I said there were not rules I *as wrong, and that I retract. (Hear, hear.) Let me call the attention of the house to Colonel Hardinge's career. I trust the house will believe that I regard Colonel Hardinge with no personal feeling whatever. He is a most gallant officer. He has distinguished himself, and I do not grudge him ad vancement. It is not the man I attack • it is the system which I wish to expose. Let us look at Colonel Hardinge's career. Colonel Hardinge entered the army as ensign in 1844. His first appearance was in direct violation of a printed regulation—much stronger than this regulation of which Colonel Wilson was ignorant, and 'which I presume is not printed—of a regulation which says that no officer shall serve on the staff until he has for two years performed regimental duty. He was put on the staff and served as aide-de-camp 10 his father in his Indian campaign. For good service in that campaign—in which he ought not to have been, though I am glad to say he was—Colonel Harding° was made a lieutenant without purchase. There were hundreds of poor ensigns who went through that campaign, but they received no such reward. (Hear, hear.) That was in 1845. He was low in the list of lieutenants in his own regiment, yet shortly afterwards he was allowed to purchase a company. That was not against rule, but it was done in a manner almost unac countable. (Hear, hear.) He is not in this new regiment many days before he exchanges into the Coldstream Guards, and advances to the position in which we have lately seen him. Now look at Hart's Army List, and take the case of an officer who entered the same regiment shortly after Col. Hardinge—Lieut. Henry Buck. This poor young man served all through the campaigns in the Punjab. He got his lieutenancy at Guzerat ; he was at ail the subsequent battles, and obtained several medals and clasps. Poor Henry Buck is still a lieutenant, and Col. llardinge has attained high rank in her Majesty's army. (Hear.) I am glad to see Col. Harding° where he is ; but the case of Lieut. Buck is a reflection upon the system. (Hear.) When Major Hardinge is made an effective major in the staff in direct opposition to regulations ; when Colonel Wood is placed over the head of Colonel Brough ; when Colonel Cuningharn, son-in-law to Lord Haas tinge, is placed over everybody's head; wheu.all these things are happening together, can the house be .surprised that an officer like Colonel Wilson, who has to pay for his promo tion after all he has gone through, should have felt hurt ; or that, naturally feeling, some indignation, I should have made a somewhat inaccurate statement ? lam sorry that I made it; and I now beg to retract anything which was not correct. (Hear.) There is another question upon which I must say a wbrd—that of Lord Eustace Cecil. There the promotion was in direct opposition to all regu lations. The hon, member opposite got un and excused that promotion because Lord Eustace Cecil had shown a meritorious desire to see service. That was a not very complimentary speech to the officers of the British army ; but what are the facts of that case ? Lord Eustace Cecil had exchanged from every regiment which was seeing service. His regiment is at the seat of war; he is placed in a battalion which is at this moment at Dublin, and Lord Eustace Cecil is within a mile of the house, or,' indeed, he was so within a very few days. (Hear.) On a former occasion I alluded to the case of Captain Blackett, and I have since been accused of some inaccuracy, and I was asked by the father of that gentleman to retract my statement, but which I refused to do ; and certainly I p t r e i e t e h d e a r n it d e a s s t e o n letteredi s h ithat which the h f a e t h d e e r n i s e h d o utlhdhaat ve w wa ri s tt s e ur n son was promoted for merit, but that it was by the influence of Col. Upton, with whom he had gone on some pleasure excursion. (L aug ht er .) Thi s rem i n d s me o f C an ning's celebrated story of the knife-grinder, who would not be re lieved, although some sentimental person was ready to afford it to him. I have a long list of lieutenants in the army who have served for years and years without having been promoted, but I will not refer to all of them. I will, however, call the attention . of the house to a few cases, avoiding, as much as possible the mentioning of names where it may be considered painful to indivi duals to do so, (Hear, hear.) There was a Lieutenant Edwardes, who went to Spain in 1811, and who was en gaged throughout the whole of the Peninsular war. He was in six medal actions, and he was 30 times under fire, and had been twice wounded ; and yet, notwithstand ing a most earnest appeal to Lord Hardinge by Sir W. Napier in his favour, he has been a lieutenant in actual service ever since. (Hear.) Let me mention the case of Lieutenant D-----. That officer made an application for d I India and his was an ensi gn i n 1839 . H e is the son of an old officer, and rperiogmnosteirovnicteo, h avlets a" the rank of captain wit hout p urchase. He has served some 12 or 14 y e ars out of the 1 7 years on fo reign China. He has present, corp s , as it i s i m possible for him V support his family in Engl an d. He is now the old est subaltern in the service, and h e h as a pplied to be appointed to an unat bee family, during and has that e x t e i h m e e n g i n e unat tached company. But, no ; he has no friend at the -Horse Guards, and therefore he still remains a subal tern. I will now read to the house a most touching letter, which has been furnished to me by Sir W. Napier, who has applied in vain to Lord Harding° on behalf of the writer, who is a captain in the 44th Regiment, and who has been 4 iyears in actual service.ghe letter, although working of the whole system, that I make no a p o l og y forate, private, is one so touching, an d so fully exeruplifyiwg the reading it : " This day is the 4 0 th ann iversar y of the N ivelle , when y ou showed us the way to fight a nd con q uer. How few Aux-vivo of those whom you so gallantly led ! Am I not somewhat pri vileged, as oneeof your old followers, to address you : I think so. Mine reallyis a singular fate. Here I am, one of the spared of the old guard, making preparations in Table-bay for the embarkation of the modern 43d, destined for Madras. . . During the last three years I have not been one night absent from my post. Sir George Cathcart has not been backward in acknowledging my services, and recommended me for a brevet majority (2 per diem). My Lord Hardinge rejected my claims to this trifling boon with the inconsistency of adinitting that he entertains a full sense of my merits. He has promoted a legion of youngsters over me ; many of whom have been only iu one little skirmish, pendant notre petit guerre. One 26 years my jun., writes to me to say, I was surprised to see my name among the lucky fellows promoted, as I have never done anything.' The chief of our staff, a very intelligent officer, wrote to me not long since stating----' I have no hesi tation in saying that the zeal and diligence which you have exhibited in carrying on the various business at our great entrepot, whence everything comes to this army, have been of more use than if you had been in every skirmish and on every patrol during the war.' My services are considered, however, unworthy of . the smallest consideration. . . . Cependant n'importe ! la vie est si courte, et si triste, qu on ne doit pas s'en chagriner." I will now refer to a case of a very opposite description- It is that of an officer, a young man (Captain 8-) whose name has never been mentioned in any despatch, and whose services are wholly unnoted. In 1853 he was pro moted to a majority, and in 1855, on Lord Panmure's ac cession to the office of Minister for War, a was he made deputy quartermaster-general and ieutenan t-colonel, which, of course, makes it certain that he will obtain his co lonelcy in three years' time, while be still retains his cap taincy in his own regiment. That, I contend, is a case of most unjust promotion. I say not a word against the in dividual, but I do most severely condemn the system. The tint step in his promotion put him over the head of the senior major in his own regiment, Major A-, who en tered the regiment four years before Captain was known in the service, and who was in the campaign of Aff ghanistan, at Ghuznee, Khelat, and in the Caffre war, was severely wounded, and is well known as a distinguished officer. The second step in his promotion puts him over Lieut.-Col. B-, whose name has often been mentioned in orders and despatches, and who is "six years the senior of Captain S-, twice slightly wounded, once seriously. It puts him over the head of Brigade-Major Simmons, who entered the regiment nine years before Captain S- was appointed, who was known to the House in the Seringa patina affair and in the Affghanistan campaign, and was seriously wounded at Ghuznee and twicp at Khelat. I ask is this a state of things that is to be tolerated ? (Hear.) I could go into the particulars of an unlimited number of instances of a similar description, but 1 think those I have already mentioned will be sufficient to prove to the ' house that there is a system of favouritism pursued in the British army to a great and lamentable extent, and whioh operates most injuriously to those whc have honestly and patriotically served their country. (Hear.) I will now go to the staff. I have already stated that the regulations of the army are infringed whenever it is thought they may be au obstacle in the way of the promotion of men having influence at their command. One of those evils which have given rise to all the anomalies of which we have to complain is the numerous appointments to the staff. If you look through the Army List you will perceive this at once. It will be seen that there are not less than 45 officers wilt), in spite of the regulations, are away from their regi ments ann serving on the staff. By those regulations it is positively stated that no officer shall be on the staff while his regiment is in foreign service. I know that there is a distinction between the staff of the army and the personal staff of the general. General Jomini has said that— " A good staff, is more than all,, indispensable to a well constituted army. It must be considered as the nursery whence a general is to draw the instruments of which he makes use—an assemblage of officers whose talents are to second his own. When the genius which directs, and the talents of those who are to carry out his conceptions do not harmonise, success becomes doubtful, for the most skilful combinations are neutralised through faults in execution. A good staff has, moreover, the advantage of being more lasting than the genius of one man--it can remedy many evils, and we hesitate not to affirm that it is the best safeguard. to au army. Petty interests, narrow views, misplaced self-love, may deny this assertion ; it must nevertheless remain an un deniable truth to every reflecting soldier and every enlight ened statesman. A well-constituted staff will be to an army what an able Ministry is to a monarchy—it will support the commander even when he is capable of directing all himself. It will prevent faults by furnishing him with good informa tion, it will also prevent them when he is unequal to the duties of command." It must, nevertheless, remain an undeniable truth to every reflecting mind that a well•constituted staff is to an army what an able Minister is to the Monarch ; and I wish we had both. Those axe most remarkable words. This house and the country know what we have suffered of late. There is an institution in this country specially devoted to the education of officers who ought to be on the staff. A return was called for some time ago by an hon. member of those officers who had taken honours and were now on the staff. I made an error before, and I will correct it now by reading the returns : " Omitting gentral officers, there are 116 officers serving on the staff, of whom 19 belong to the Guards, most of them of noble families, and 7 to the Rifle Brigade, of whom 4 are ho nourables. There are 6 lieutenant-generals on the staff, not one of whom has taken a certificate in the senior department of the Royal Military College; 12 major-generals, of whom 1 (General Eyre) has obtained a certificate; 4 colonels, 1 of whom (Colonel Cameron) has a certificate; 12 assistant adju tant-generals, 2 of whom (Lieut.-Colonel Stirling and Major E wart) have obtained a certificate ; 1 quartermaster-general, with a certificate; 9 assistant-quartermaster-generals, none of whom have obtained certificates; 29 deputy-assistant quarter master-generals, 5 of whom have certificates ; 1 military secre tary, assistant military secretary,. 12 staff officers, 30 aides de-camp, and 14 brigade-majors, none of whom had obtained certificates; so that out of the whole staff, properly so called, only 7 have obtained certificates of the senior department of the Royal Military College." A. return hay been also made to the house of the names of those officers who have been promoted for good service during the campaign, coming down to the 11th of March. Out of 93 officers promoted, how many does the house sup pose are on the staff? No less than 65. This is a most serious consideration. Remember the brave men in the Crimea; our officers are becoming disheartened by the pre sent state of things. I say so from my own personal know ledge; I have mixed with them and heard from their own lips their opinions of the wholesa:e promotions of those whose services are inferior to their own. Let the house listen to a voice from the Crimea. The following obser vations have appeared in a public paper :-- " But, more by far than any injustice or indiscriminating liberality in distributing honours, is the tardiness with which the State rewards them (the officers and soldiers). How many of the soldiers of the Alma are there remaining among us 'I How many have passed away from the ranks of those who fought at Balaklava and Inkerman ? Look, for example, at the case of Colonel Egerton, who fell the other night in a noc turnal action in the trenches. That gallant, loved, and ho noured officer had never for a moment left his regiment, from the time he landed, till he met his death-wound; he led his regiment up the steeps •of Alma ; he commanded them at Inkerman, where Lord Raglan specially mentioned their ser vices and exertions in recapturifig three of our guns from the enemy ; and many a weary night he passed in the dreary trenches ; but while Gazette after Gazette showered promo tion on the peak of every cocked hat, wherever it was, in the fight, or out of it, Colonel Egerton received nothing— not one step. He had no reward except the regard of his general, the respect of the army, and the promise of A medal and clasps, which he never lived to see. That is the o , ) se of many a gallant soldier, and the cause of many a great complaint. " The authorities at home have, no doubt, ascertained pri vately, and through communications unknown to the public, how much disappointment exists among the senior officers in command of regiments out hero at the delay which has taken place in the distribution of the rewards and honours which they have reason to expect, and to which they are so justly entitled. The feeling is expressed in every tent, in every con versation in camp. If colonels of regiments are to be made C. B.'s for past services, why are they kept waiting till they are heart-sickened ? The case of Colonel Egerton, who went to his honoured grave followed by the regrets of the whole army, may be that of every one of the few remaining officers who led their regiments at Alma, In kerman, and have served their country in the equally perillous, more trying, but less glorionsservice of the trenches during this protracted siege. There is understood to be some little difference of opinion ben Lord Raglan and the War office respecting the list of officers to be rewarded : but it matters little to those who are pining for some acknowledg ment of their services what the nice point may be which bars their right. Very recently, Colonel Rumley, who has seen but little foreign service as commanding officer, and Colonel .Williams, who has latterly at least been principally employed in Ireland, have been appointed Brigadiers-General in Malta. It is felt that these appointments would have been conferred with much greater propriety and justice on some one of the colonels of regiments out here—men who, like Col. Garrett or Col. Macpherson, belong to the Peninsula, and who are only in temporary command of brigades, from which they may be superseded at any moment ; whereas Colonels Rum ley and Williams have permanent commands. Colonel Shirley of the 88th Regiment has every day an opportunity of seeing' his nephew, who never saw any war service, and who is junior to him by many years, in the,,uniform of a major general, with rank and pay greater than his own ; and there is no doubt that Major-General Shirley will not only have his local rank confirmed, but that he will also have a certainty of higher promotion if the force to which he has been appointed perform any service of importance, while Colonel Shirh y, who :las served with his regiment throughout the campaign, can not be promoted, and does not even receive any honorary dis tinction for his conduct. He was a brigadier for a few days, but is so no•longer. The case of Colonel Yea of the 7th, than whom there is no more gallant, devoted, and energetic sol dier in the service is equally hard ; and all the Alma colonels are aggrieved or slighted in the tame way. Col. Cunynghame is doubtless a deserving, zealous, and hardwo,rking officer; but he has recently received an appointment which places him far above the heads of officers as deserving and far senior to him in the service. (The system we go upon is in fact unintelli gible, it is neither one of seniority or of merit.) What reward has Brevet-Colonel Dicks n received for the services he ren dered at the Alma, and the incalculable results he produced at Inkerman by the fire of two guns, around which 17 of the gunners were struck down beside him ?" I know Colonel Dickson, and a more gallant or more able officer does not exist, nor one who has rendered groat r services to the country. Does the house remembor his f‘ther in the Peninsula, when the Duke of Wellington ordered a certain military operation, which the artillery officer in command said it was impossible ; upon which the Duke turned round to the young officer and said, " Will you do it ?" he replied, " I will ;" and he did it. What did the Duke of Wellington ? He promoted the young officer to the head of the artillery on the spot, and morever kept him there, in spite of favouritism at home, and even of officers being sent out to supersede him. W ell, what was the result? Why, his artillery was the best in the British army. Colonel Dickson, the son's, was exactly the same case. At Inkerruan the colonel commanding the artillery said it was impossible to bring up the guns to a position which would decide the fate of theday. Colonel Dickson, how ever—who left this country, be it remembered, a brevet colonel, having been in Spain and seen long service there— said it was possible to bring up guns, and, like his father, ha did bring them up, and played with such effect as to break the masses of Russian infantry which were attacking us. He is still a plain captain of artillery. The statement in the Times was—" It would surprise the Horse Guards, perhaps, if they could hear the names of officers who have, I know, expressed their intention of leaving the service as soon as they can should their claims be disregarded any longer, or as soon as they complete a term of service to justify their demanding a retirement." We have bad re verses, and why? Because we have had no mento command —no officers. And we shall have none if you continue to turn a deaf ear to just merit, and still determine to pro mote those only who have family or political influence to recommend them. Look at the Staffs of the generals, look at that of my gallant friend here (Sir D. L. E van s.) That staff was not composed of men selected on account of re laMonship or political influence, but of the best men fo r the duties. There was on e hon. Member of that house (Lieut.-Colonel P. Herbert)_upon that gaff, but he was not elected on that account, fora more gallant officer could not bb found, and ie choosing him the general did honour to the house, and at the same time placed that officer in the right place. What are the remedies I suggest for the evils I have pointed out? They are promotion without purchase, and an end, if possible, to all favouritism in the army. That is the first step. As to the promotion with out purchase, I believe my gallant friend (6ir De Lacy Evans) agrees with all those who are well acquainted with the army, that this system, which disgraces us in the eyes of foreign nations, must be put an end to. That has been proposed more than once, and the answer al ways has been you cannot meddle with vested interests." I do not wish to do so, but if I can show you how you can remedy the evils without interfering with vested interests, if you be sincere in your desire for improvement you will agree with me. Here is a curious list, which I have made, of the num ber of commissions given without purchase up to this time. Will the house believe that out of 4,367 commissions given from the rank of captain downwards, more than one-half (2,413) have been granted without purchase. I will take two regiments at random. In the Ist Regiment, out of 23' commissions as captains, 11 are without purchase; lieute nants, 22 out of 33; and ensigns, 10. out of 16 - without pur chase. Now; I will take the last regiment—the Rifle Bri gade. There, out of 43 captains' commissions, 30 were given without purchase; of lieutenants, 34 out of 35; and o en signs, 23 out of 129 were without purchase. Now, if you be sincere, you have an opportunity to put an end to one half of the purchase system in the army—if you will say that all these commissions which have been given without purchase shall remain free commissions, to be given only to merit, and shall not pass by purchase. Thus, without touch ing in anydegree vested interests, or injuring any man in any way, you can put an end to so much of the system of pur chase, and at the same time be doing only an act of justice. Is it right that a man who has a commission given to him should go and sell it to a person who has merited it? (Hear.) I know - he cannot do so immediately after he gets it, but he can very soon after ' • and supposing a man on obtaining his colonelcy sells out, he sells all his former commissions, although one or two may have come to him without pur chase. If the Government wishes to advance the int"rests of those men who are fighting our battles, and wishes to say one word of-consolation to them, let the decision of this house go forth, that at least commisSions given with out purchase shall henceforth be given only to merit. The anomalies of the purchase system are greater in war than in peace. You have officers who have fought in all your campaigns ; when vacancies occur they cannot, perhaps, purchase ; and then men who have never left this country —who have been the whole time with the depot—are ena bled to buy over their heads, not only within their own but in any other regiments. The next thing you must do is to abolish the privileges of the Guards. There is the reat evil. You take one regiment and place it above all others, which is an injustice ; it is unfair and inconsistent with the s pirit of the age. You must edncate your staff—you must make a rule that no man shall be on the staff unless he shall have received the education necessary for such an ap pointment. You must attend to the recommendations of the commissions which have been appointed to consider these questions, and which have reported in favour of changes insour military system. Thera was a report made .last year by a commission, signed by several members of this house, in which I find the following passage : " It is generally admitted that in a,naval command phy sical vigour, and the energy which accompanies it, are necessary to the full discharge of the duties imposed upon the commander ; but, if this be true in the navy, in which, though the responsibility and risk to life be increased in war, yet there is little additional fatigue or privation, com paratively, beyond what is encountered in peace, how much more is it true in the case of land service, where immense distances have to be traversed over unknown and difficult ground, where the general must necessarily spend days to gether in tl:e saddle, visiting, as lie must do, in all parts of an extended line of operations, where the most opposite reports have to be balanced and decided, where the most elaborate combinations must be rapidly cunceiveif and executed, in order to move and feed vast bodies of men in an unwilling or , hostile country, to find means of transport for supplies of provisions and ammunition, to provide for the sick and wounded; to create, in short, wrth such materials as may be found, an organisation, any failure in which may result in a terrible sacrifice of human life, and may, in the most critical moment, baffie the best combinations. That labours such as these must require not only the exercise of faculties of the highest order, but physical strength, and powers of endurance which shall keep those faculties unimpaired by bodily fatigue and privation, is too obvious to be disputed. . . . The breaking out of a war, of which no one can foresee the duration or the extent, makes it incumbent upon us to take immediate and effective measures to remedy evils by which the efficiency of the service may, at a most critical moment, be seriously impaired." But how far have those recommendations been carried out ? The report gives a list of the , ages of the general officers iu the Peninsula : "The Duke of Wellington was a Major• General at 33, the Marquis of Anglesey 34, the Earl of Dalhousie 38, the Earl of Strafford 36, Lord Hill 33, Lord Beresford 39, Sir George Murray 40, Lord Combermere 31, Lord Londonderry 32." By way of contrast, I have here a list of the ages of the general officers in the Crimea, which, I believe, is correct, and which shows how much attention has been paid to the recommendations of the commission : " Lord Raglan 67, Sir J. Burgoyne 73, General Brown 65, Duke of Cambridge 36, Sir D. L. Evans 68, Sir R. England 62, Sir G. Cathcart 61, Lord Lucan 55, General Tylden, en tered service in 1806, 66, General Cator, entered service in 1803, 69, General Strangways, entered service in 1806, 66, Commissary-General Filder 61, Admiral Dundas, entered ser vice in 1792, 67, Lord Rokeby 57." All these are gallant officers ; they have served their coun try well, and the country would rejoice to honour them — and to pension them ; but when the interests and honour of the country are at stake, we must not allow private con siderations to have weight in appointments of this kind. I want to know why the recommendation of the commis sion which I have just read was not carried out, and I want to know, further, whether it is now being carried out. By your present system you exclude from the army all the middle classes— those classes which eminently re present the intelligence of the country; only those who have influence and family connexions can get commissions; but if you were to throw open the army you would at once have a large importation of the middle classes into it, even as privates, if you were to give,them a prospect of rising. But the Government have done nothing towards improving our military system, except throwing open the Artillery, and uniting the Commissariat and Ordnance with the Horse Guards. I should not quite like to state my own opinion with regard to this last measure, but I will read to the house what the hon. member for Middlesex—(laughter)--- who is a member of the Government, and who ought there fore to be an authority, said on the subject some little time ago— " Will any man tell me that our military system, as exist ing at present, has tended to develope or bring forward mili tary talent or genius ? 1 deny it. Look, sir, in the first in stance, how the staff of the British army ie compose& (Cheers and counter cheers.) It is all very well for hon. gentlemen to come down and talk of consolidation of the Ordnance, the Horse Guards, and the Commissariat under one bead, and the substitution of one Minister for another. I maintain (what ever may be the inherent vigour of that man, whatever may be his experience), a mere consolidation will not be sufficient; you must reconstruct your whole military system. The time has arrived when y ou cannot expect an army, besides winning battles in the field, to go through the vicissitudes of a cam paign under the present state of things. (Renewed Opposi tion cheers.) You must lay an unsparing hand on that build ing adjacent to these premises—you must see, whether in fact you can find a modern Hercules to turn the Serpentin through the Horse Guards, and all the ramifications of the War-office. (Loud cheers.) . . In England every one knows that it is not merit and capacity for which an officer is appointed to the staff, but interest and connexion. . . I say you must not be satisfied with the army consolidation—you must reform the army and the Horse Guards. . . The fact is this, that you never will haye any reform till you commence with the Horse Guards, and are not satisfied with the mere conso lidation of offices. It is very painful for me :o make this statement—(ironical cheers) -1 have a superior duty to per form ; I represent a constituency." (Laughter.) Really, if I had boon speaking myself, I corild not have used more appropriate . language. This being, then, the opinion of a member of the Government, I t rus t something will be done. We must remember that our words here will travel far; I know that every regiment a l officer in the Crimea is watching what passes here with the deepest 'anxiety ; they trust in us, and they are hopieg that we shall be able to break up the system which ex poses them to so great wrongs. (Hear, hear.) With re gard to the navy, I am afrai.i there is much in its system which produces the same injustice and the same grievances as those which I have described with regard to the army. I am afraid there is the same favouritism at work there too. will just give ono instance of the perversity which characterises the a ,ministration of the navy. If there is one class of officers more valaable and more de serving than another in the navy it is the masters. (Hear.) They are intrusted with most responsible duties; if a shin wreck takes place the blame is generally thrown on their shoulders ; but although there is a power to promote masters, the Government will not do it. Some time ago I pressed on ati hon. member of this house, who faits at the Admiralty Board, to do something for the masters and he told me that something was being done: It turned out that that something was a mere increase of pay, but there was no improvement whatever made es to promoting them in rank. Now a mere increase of pay Isay is no encourage ment at all to such men. I have received letters from mas ters telling me that they wore so disgusted with the service that they were longing to quit it, and enter into th 4 mer cantile marine. I come now to the diplomatic service, in which lam somewhat more at home, as have had consi derable personal experience of it, and have made it, too, a subject of study; I will divideitinto twoparts—Aiplomacy proper, and the consular service. Recent events have shown us of what importance our diplomatic service is, and what i , nportant questions are committed into its hands, and yet if there is one service more tbananother which is made the vehicle for favouritism it is our diplomacy. Here's a little book published by the Foreign-office, which gives a list of those who are employed in our diplomatic service I open it at random, and I read :---Hanover—Minister, the Hon. John Duncan Bligh, C.B. ; Secretary of Legation, Hon. G. Edgcumb ; First Attache, Hon. W. Nassau Jocelyn. Then Igo to Austria. There the Minister is the Earl of Westmoreland ; the Secretary of Legation, Hon. Henry G. Elliot; First paid,Attache, Hon. Julian H. C. Fane. I turn to Berlin, and there I read—Minister, Lord Bloomfield ; Secretary of Legation, Lord Augustus Lo ftus ; First paid Attache, Hon. Li one l S Sackville West ; Se cond Attaché, Hon. William G. C. Ellibt ; and so on throughout, showing what a complete monopoly the ser vice is. From this littl e b oo k I h a ve made the fol lowin g analysis of the compositions of the service Head of Missions-7 lords, 9 honourables, 2 baronets 3 noble families, 7 gentlemen, nearly all small missions"; against 7. Secretaries of Legation-2 lords, m ho ess n or o ci _urc e b n . Fit l a e lie s a. 1 baronet, 5 noble families, 7 gentlemen ; 17 against..s 1 Attaches-1 lord, 7 honourables, 6 noble fl i l i t o i s c h , Persian men ; 14 against 10, but the 10 include T Mission. Unpaid Attaches-2 lords, 5 honourables, 9 noble families, 17 gentleman ; 16 against 17." My hon. friend the member for 'Stafford the other night mentioned the ca se of Mr.S a ta ndley, who, w a h f o te h r a s l x b d e been ve n sperreciise writer in the Foreign-office, n Its second attache, was made first attaché ; and, after three years' service as first attache, was promoted to the post of secretary of iept i on . Certainly I should have thought that that family had had enough—two peerages and a bishopric, besides other things, ought to have sufficed for them. Th an , on the other 'ham!, th e r e i s the c a se of Mr. Alison—emphatically a man of genius—who has been kept at the embassy at Constantinople since 1839. An abler man does not exist ; yet the Government thougl they have made him Oriental Secretary, will not allyw - him to rank as a secretary of legation or to claim incr.Jase of pay ; he is kept under such men as Mr. Stanley, and Alters who have been put over his head. There are a great many other cases, all of which ale equally as bad ; and let the house take kny word for it—for I have been engaged in diplomacy and in the Foreign-office—there 'is nothing but favouritism is diplomacy. Yez, the noble lord (Lord Palmerston) gets up and says that it is a great mistaketo suppose that when vacancies occur in the higher ofdoes the "elections are not made with la view to efficiency. , ..••••• ',e: Fr am.................. .............................mas... , ~.........., There is thee case of Lord Nornrtanby, our present Mini . s e., ..... -in Tuscany., whose office a coinunittee of this house rec._ 7 . mended she Auld be abolished, or merged iuto another. t t . ) . ° ol tainly it hat; been well said that the country inaY i'',. .1 to pension . :incapacity, but cannot afford to e mploy lui,•, I am •sorry to- have to refer to individual instances; b t . cannot flinch from that task when it i 4 necessary t0,,,P..e21 form it iu mei 'er to expose a crying evil and abuse. %''': years ago it W r, a determined to have gentlemen at COnst r t,.. tuaople who she eat take the plates of the f orei g n intefrp.. l . _ ters. Now, I ,'lave heard M. Pisani and others o s t foreign interpret, en much condemned. It has been s o t te be that they are mcre Russian spies, who are t a I bought ; but, in j. estice to this class, I must sal (f. o f speak fro u experi. ante ) that I heave a more honest s-?._, men does not exist ; - and I never heard of a case in o'ni c , is s they had betrayed their trust. The system, however, so bad ; and it is no reflection upon those gentlemen t.? _Z a that you ought not to have foreig 'tars in your serviceiiiiiiire. can get Englishmen to till their situations. My s h° , os do not act as the Austrians, the French, and the Russo' red, in this respect ? Well, several vacancies having occurvice four gentlemen selected from Oxford and Carabridteoo rof seat out to sup; ly them ; but up to this Inomen,te: ye n ot them are kept there upon miserable salaries an" ' 3 all been recognised as Attaches. True, they are teld t he Y c but he w marry and settle there, and take up a profession; e . . e0 „, can they do so and keep up the position of 25 ;1. a-year, less income-tar and Foreign-otlice fees, .. w ef a cut any cha nce of promotion, or even the advantageekr,i "iica dragoman's place ? Though_ one of these gentleitt step_ been abroad since 131-0 he has not risen 3 ein.r_ r viee, Now what is wanted in diplomacy, as in the dal! s p e .. _ elco gentt_i,rt,.. is seine test on entering. When I was at theForeig . '' e f o f the subje L ... many documents were submitted to me on r t han - 1 examinations. Some of then, went even furthe eq. _ i ;,. thought necessary, because I don't know that an u :scien ceg' ante with botany, astronomy, and other abstrutsoo „ow.. to is of much use to such officers. Some examine:o4bl ever, is absolutely requisite ; and, above all, W t o f o ur employ no man without paying him. That par t 0 m an's system is rotten from top to bottom. (Flear•L'vey ino services are worth anything, pay him from t he not wort), went he enters your employment ; if they are o n_ ~d yae eea anything, let him be dismissed. In the next els :',y.' up to your Attach& by seniority to a certain Poi s e t f .e te t ool:ro te secretaryahips of legation. You cannot L' e'" il l diplo • ~ese . e t them further than that by seniority, bee• 00 w e macy book knowledge is not t ufficie greater qualifications than that, and, in gra i nY to sc °r° ro l e ma , l o superior e ffi ciency, almost any departure from er b° r°"6 be justifiable, but that departure should nev 0 ig die for the purpose of perpetrating a P b ' In the of case unfortnuate!y two often at present. ,J_ . - shou ld ho e petition to which 'diplomatic appointment': thos e w d consular ua b e r s • subject, a preference should be she'v,°, you r public sad t y o o t u b r e a recognised n t itskeedn placesthe of highest edu h e a s. t ql : 0 0 u no i s. : Ai i n z s sons o fi . s t ie i voia w etei i e t 3 h ia.g r go,ie g ova l s ti ; branch — sh a m m eu ' establishments one that is as ill-treated as 2S. re your uli t ? four d" , ' con ° oyeeerles, ___,,,r which it is necessary to distinem:Bll-"cons i cor toga suls, vice-consuls, and consular ' asst = ,u m aploY ed for service is no profession at all and 10. 'n are sometilee,B.so. - for the moat extiamdinary a rea-one, fvncould r e P ""' A ro, reasons, I may almost say, thst morality' _ oh ,a0:) ,, ,,, e e The ud claims put forward for appointment t o stoje „ : 1 0 ,, e e i i , i eed; often so remarkable that I as 3 'y 00' 1 C toe should be listened to for a moment. Bu t in thi . at t he 0 ,1 1 0 le i, c onsist are never promoted. The consuleneral, eat nevc' e Go of the tree, ought to have eviously been,,.° ,d of O'veon hard-working consul. The noble lord at then'''. of car f s om e - t i ee vernment bore testiinony to the efficiency o , ee gen L t he suls. I have myself been acquainted with.tritee'rogo of the are many most able men, and men, in f e '" in Europe,'Asia, awl Africa, in the inarue`l h ' s ot a ree o g t heir Mediterranean at ' least ; and I must sal that frealh.,,,hest wonderful acquirements would ntitled. to th e 1 9 ' 1 ''oel e. pests in any profession. But are they eve r an dacb cora' se lf of them write to me stating their grievances, eo d I ni ev ea ing of their long and unrequited services; for 20er , to ld k th a a o t w th m e yenmwayithtrlaadrageiffatmheiylieisdawahsao;have been the y 1 01 11, 30 years stationed in some small town. Tril e, , , leo ere of the but this 1 • e t t WY . . 0 a for how they rob.'" t can they trade weithout capital, of Ivp'symdil 5 ,,i ° ta destitute? •If they attempted to do s ° her we O P become bankrupt ; they would set all there i o to c t ° , tl t hein • place against them ; they g en idinsu" - 00.?• , ,. quarrels with the pashas, and everybody "",,,- an leejejueb (" Hear, hear," and a laugh.) • You put a r ru t you tick 3001., or, it may be, 50e/. a-year ; but, cu'yeerirel bich he is living, is from his salary the income-tax, which , e u 'l l trY in sv Ob.' he does not escape the taxation of the ° The o y•e c bm eo, ject him to another burden, which, I th l . o 7 e fece ' d p' nation —viz., what is called the Foreag.e_ "tbe Farr tot. fees. I will say-nothing against the clerks 1... in that ere rePthst , perhaps, rather hazel.. i,. is 0 a ,ierio I was ashamed to feel myself plac ed office, because, during the short time I Wa s c ity tu e 'pit : ment, I found men of such power and cal," the re , consul and every diplomatic offic2,r is 0 ._ the P w ith much for ever y 10J/ , he receives to a clerk 1 3 .4 „ e liet,, si d, office for enabling him to draw his salary ; t u ut ;,te cl o p this, and with the extras which the rid ° s a yea e f with 2501 . a-year, has to pay, there is al w ay s incor. c ; or a o sa r n y oi fi h percentage to be deducted from hie miser:o;l'ooe alai, clerks_t w hi ...li t clerks by actually paid ; but don't, by a sort of si" era tioa ° , coo' x t e h r e —y r a e e 11 1 o trh r ee,r consular that y , you sra Fl a s oi h ir o ae a u i g l a d , It° dielli ,tabrhrleei. i l u t si 1 a t 6 l l 3 ffi:e P ti rb c e to j ilii i g voi 06 any inadequacy there may be in the ren.o l ! t o P° o o your cheating of his scanty earninN g o e hey 011 sal in the East. (Hear, hear.) Then • , r e is scar 9%,t, vice-consuls, - who never rise,—indeed tb°_, T iGe. 00 0. an instance of advancement in the consular suiii i r eg os eee you have got a - perfect cloud of o t e s „ e ati e oc eeci' These persons are mostly Greeks, or Men °' thei r Pap r ea' in the East. I read an amusin account of ' OO O O O4 ings in a book written, I unde rstand, by 5 F6 The :: 0 00 t4 gaged in the Foreign-office, and entitled o p, Ter Eugashmun." I have seenhundredsof these°,oo gi b e lle' myself over and over again ; they are nie e i j o elea t e ee`ie tection, who go about with two or three 1 3° " g ee,7,„' t.'"': ing everybody ; who make money by proanirlyoin "I:sserlN to individuals from the lockup house an" 0 , reP be bunals of the country ; men who violate the 1 ,, 5 ,5iit0 i ,`l, the, themselves as British subjects, and pay the°6:,°Bed wi th of fee, in consideration of which influencers ex e ' - ,-,t.lie ri " -' cos' pasha to secure their liberation. Thus, the a t .. - i , y th i s t the the country are insulted ; these men In 00 :,. S i‘ -r i e ;'oo l toms' dues, and the local law is set a t defla n ",.. - o :ncis'es th e course which I - Would take to remove this , s ,; disre t- ieolvi be, if ever I beard of such a case, a t once to hole person concerned, and have him signallY p l a n s yOO s e rval Siee in the diplomatic and the consul a- servicensoier f have a career. No man should enter the ° co o w ish to unless he had previously been what in i s do not W rit c on' countries is called a "pro consul;" but , e s , a ssis ts e as': use high-sounding names, I will term it o no thr° llP s ' er v : Sal." Let there be a probation to be gon ro e h 3 l. niece the case in the French service, and when biglie7hret, Peen the a certain period let him rise merit to , 0 ho e rot e • in his profession. Then you will hold out w bollY I 00 1 couragement to exert himself which is W ee tee% 0 1. plOi ing. I would also abolish the Foreign' subje c t i o n, l i t come to the civil service, a branch 0f.,,,ic,i qu es tbe 1 .4 1, eminent importance, because it is 3 P° lll ' dc ice Of 0 00 1 e I hope we shall be favoured with the ' aladstooe) 0 bo, honourable gentleman behind me ( M r ' On , becau se tor 134 ,. Here we have safer grounds to , go of west i ° tor iu evidence before us a collection of the we o f th: goti, ili e ing and Agluable papeß drawn uP by ha ve boort e n , r f 5 O l i o remarkaMf men in this country 0 ° 'e P cr 105 yr the grounds, I hope, of future all departments of the public service. eo t, an' fo e is i I will r ~0 on which this house may work. Irt.syil s ervic e, 0 n ode b a s own opinion upon the state of our ci e w ho hay et ie li the opinions of some of the gondo l " this 11°11'°. ' ss WO reports which have been laude efo.,? ._ coun try a na 1 ,0 0 , been said that the civil servo f have had fa oily A ii 10 03 ", iroprot: al of expr.ess a , entirely confined to those who hav . an d We w ar of 40 tical influence, but chiefly the la o ttief the p w- r , ia "„, 0 that an impression has gone abr • ' t th e Treasg h i s t ' °l' d right hon. gentleman who represen 4Let to see joio a f r house in the distribution of offic es ,' w ill c ite th u e e lritY e l° ,4 gentlemen say in their reports. cuss as 511 3 te'r the ii• Mr. Romilly, and he will be re i f e a z' iners ur, 0 0 0 1 he has been appointed oncial. ...-•no uttinents in the civi, ilea.v, polit T ic h a e l regulations. lie says of app i appointments being P i totl. , aPP;olitieal serviFloreerca fur the ilouse 0 ; a dhl o te, exertions in obtaining vote era n e lections, a steaa9 ea, 0 0 a deel - o ug large sums of money one- - ~1 follow ed by . op „ vat iot! ~ s o' to one political party at lop p o a n r l t y i s m a n o s t i v i se gratitude for d similar consrawe'eistersnttirt;y, to be duly appreciated —these an . 2 ,_ . ,., eus hig l' , , es ,as ei ect tuate the Minister ' of the day in ur e r ileira eliPu i y o ppO l ,l, s 3cretaryships, conamissionerships,an"o' cho sen ar o v os , br i o just t o indicate that the former unswerving tleP. a fall vacant. .. . In all cases thefin:eno; not because they are peculiarly look upon their appointments, not as an important field for fresh e% f the sitled for ;atie g, not as i hi P v hut a° a t o ' 1 : ertieu s, " ,A fl c if , ' cause as political adherents they must b? Pr ... e s v i l ij g ne lf 1 0 , 0 01 :., 4011'7,40e .001 for the past, and an agreeable and easy the „ t oo , r e 41 ,0 tive life for the future. In other wordS, 7,, its . .t.' 0 ,1 19 . ; 00 service is sacrificed to political consider I t ie pc raiis the 0 0 of party must be'kept together. Elopes ;n es _ I3 o t. l 'iloq,,ao minds of the rising generation of politielbacerss• of ti11:6307i, proportion as hopei are reesed 4if in c°3 Commons -by every fresh polities' aPP°, ‘ „ c d an' in the strictly civil service they are lessv" the civil service." boo .., rill ° .sr; intra elit I ora' lle , o s oi p-, -enb e -es 'jowl The words I have read are those of 5 p..,3 5!....5. been chosen by the Government thenaose oeiel.:„. ._ therefore they will give due weight t __!!! l '4 . ` a tes • distru . _ ro c le . , 000.,.ird let us see what Sir J. Stephen says. Ti e ' arlf ritl , " The clerks iu the colonial office __ 11 :; y se ien d tho oth fa guishable into three classes. The first, rho fir st, 50 • ', o il, the second beim; more numerous than tne,lod, .. 0 lie pu t 0 , exceeding the number of the other two u, so re t, it , 1:91, of t e the narrow circle of the first of these elasa . ; he rs o_, hie h o ' . .„,ct not indeed combined in any one of the hl, tie s of „, c i r 'r:r riously distributed among thorn all—cltha" io ttoa '4 00 4 . still never think without the highest adlh , ow er o _:" . ' t tore 4 0 —such as large capacity of mind, literarY,,ay, L, 1 , 0 te,!„ o omitable e qedev?':,,e o 2 rif cellence, sound scholarship, ind perience in public affairs, and an absolutevr., t ootf i i gh %. public service. It comprised some men f i u tiou , .awi t oe, c 7.o to eminence in any field of open cone'soaliiithey v : i l i e born to more ample forttraes, might ins villi eU • f 111 0 pined to hold the seals of the cite ° ty 1 ' 50 serving as sub ordinates. . • • • • the ;I'3i°fiees": er members of the third class--that is, , t iel -- d eos 00 e members of the Colonial Department in III! deg roe , _ . o f D ior only in a low degree, and some of them 10,1 1 .. o f nia! u tre‘l ' lO credibly low, either the talents or the lialedge rel ce s. ~,e, uess, or the industry, the zeal, or the krol to fuet f o r tf o e the effective performance of their approlli‘The naer ie fe',, s se many cases ample and valid occuses n . l u ini poss w oo sf tap defects ; but of the existence of them it go _ the c ati the c s .o t to doubt. Neither have I any doubt a: to w holt o of ' re , extreme disparities between the person,,,,..°o' m en a lb ,vir lishment of the office was composed. l',`.. e, neer i ' i t of 'O 4 which I have designated the first-class were , to coa i ota c Ont o4l °ll The pl e at 0 I who had been sought out and app ~ercteo. wit ho ti o , well-ascertained fitness for tho Pliblic,lh,, Ora , he pol l if , of that which I have named the tiara to grat ify t troos , 0 , ception, men who bad been appoin ted 4 tec h P s .. i f th e iti' the domestic, or the personal feelinglt ,•' ... eve berS Av ell , of of successive Secretaries of State. Thc,'_ L' at 09 . 9 7 fo to tij io called aecond-class were chiefly, thouge,nrocioetion lis t ..,,, lie un aei- roe sv rid , department. It will, of course, /., that Vrb iCh P of °e l l er' I ' d classification is wholly distinct from _ 0 seniors t rioi o d.•btecl to such nepotism for their no 4 0 0 a betn, under the same names, to indicate tn herefere' ma ny ° I conclude, t rate s each other. .• • • which ge he • i ii Or in our public offices a nepotism„ abuses in th© conduct of them. SO l if ro' P t , 1 4 ' l ' oj oo that of Sir C. Trevelyan. He say s -' "' im port; th e t e Such is the evidence of Sir J. SteplLen• mho%W.'S elle 5 11 JO . 0 iCe 3 ; 0 fession would attract into its ranks r . tha t tb , . ee d i !ro e ambitious of the youth of the coriutwy_ ' 1 , 0 3 . eit e te r ii ;l' "It would be nateral to expect that be t s,uo s t e ° e lotion would prevail among 01°801 e h r ? ....ema iitt a' ouc h ,r o er that such as were endowed with: .P i i000e0to• ~.. oi l; I rapidly rise to distinction and p : h! e_L;Ol, i i.it .stri:or ..iato, ever, is by no means the case. t I 'l_ ll '7 . _ he t 1 _i t is t r o 07- 9 11 intact th' t s a • rid Inca. ambitious and the indolent a do ..,, 3t via,rrau ~,sofeer, desired. Those whose abilities ' 4 .,, ( 10 r vice is, indeed, eagerly tien that they will WWI 111 ''. sough 9.6,,,,. Sir James Brooke, had not yet been presented ; whe ther the commissioners had made a reference to the Go- vernment, which was the cause of the delay ; and, if so, what was the nature of that reference ? Lord PALMERSTON said he had reason to believe the report had been received, and he should answer the question on Monday. COLONIAL GRANTS OF LANDS TO FOREIGN LEGIONS. Lord NAAS asked whether the Governor-General of Canada bad been requested by the Government to make ,an application to the Colonial Legislature for a grant of one million acres land, to enable her Majesty to offer settle ments to such of her Majesty's Foreign Legionaries as may be willing to settle in Canada ; and, if so, whether it was the intention of the Government to offer similar settlements to the officers and soldiers of her Majesty's regular army ? Lord J. RUSSELL said a despatch bad been laid from the Governor-General before the Colonial Legis I lature, but they had prorogued without discussing it. THE ENNISKILLEN DRAGOONS. Mr. 0. STANLEY gave notice that he should take an early opportunity of bringing the "practical joking" among the officers of the above regiment at Canterbury before the house. FREEDOM OF THE PRESS AT GIBRALTAR. Mr. BRIGHT called the attention of the noble lord the Secretary to the Colonies to an ordinance recently issued by Sir R. Gardner, the Governor of Gibraltar, re stricting the publication of a newspaper to that garrison. He wished to ask whether the noble lord would send out an order to cancel that decree and place the position of the press at Gibraltar upon a more proper footing ? He had in his pocket now a memorial from a printer at Gibraltar to the noble lord, but which he had not yet had an opportunity of presenting, stating that his busi ness had been destroyed by that ordinance. (Hear.) _ _ _ Lord J. RUSSELL said since he last addiessedthe house on this subject he had bad time to examine the ordinance in question, and he must now state that Sir R. Gardner was competent to issue such an ordinance on his own authority. There was, however, a certain re striction upon his general power of issuing such ordinances, viz., that they should be published a month before they were in force. He conceived it would not be right to take away that power from the Governor of a garrison like Gibraltar to prohibit the publication of a newspaper giving an account of the state of the garrison, the weak points of the place, the amount of ammunition, the number of guns, and where the powder magazines were placed. He should say that the governor in such a case was not only justified, but was bound in duty to stop such a publication. (Hear.) With regard to the discretion exercised by the governor, in the present instance, it did appear to him (Lord John Russell) that there was a necessity for issuing this pro hibitory ordinance. (Hear, hear.) In reply to a further question from Mr. BRIGHT, Lord J. RUSSELL said he could not give any dis tinct assurance that he should send out an order to can cel the ordinance in question. •(Hear.) STIPULATIONS RESPECTING TERMS OF PEACE Mr. OT WAY—I rise to ask the noble lord at the head of the Government the question of which I have given no tice, and though I am anxious not to delay the interesting discussion about to take place, still, after having formally given notice of my question, I feel bound to ask it. The noble viscount has stated in the house that in February last certain right hon. gentlemen who were lately eminent members of his Government, stipulated as to the condi tions of peace, and more especially as to one which should be asked of Russia. I should be trifling with the house to suppose that those stipulations could have been made with any other view than that of favouring Russia, for those who have had the pain of listening to the speeches of the right hon. members for Carlisle and the University of Ox ford must be aware that any stipulations as to the condi tions of peace made by them could have had no other ob ject than that of being favourable to our enemy. Mr. GLADSTONE—Sir, I rise to order. (Hear.) You have heard the language which has fallen from the hon. member. He has stated that nothing stated or stipulated by my right hon. friend or myself with reference to the terms of peace could have had any object but that of being favourable to our enemy. I put it to you whether that language is such as falls within the rules of discussion in this house? (Hear.) The SPEAKER—It is not within the rules—(hear, hear)—for it is attributing to hon. members that which is traitorous. Mr. OTWAY—I regret very much, Sir, that anything I have said could be thought to impute such conduct as you have described to the right hon. gentleman, for nothing was further from my intention than to say that the right hon. members had been guilty of treason. I conceived that the tenour of their speeches must have led all hon. members to suppose that any stipulations madeby them could be viewed in no other light than that of their being favourable to Russia. I think it must be conceded that that was their intention, from the remarks which have fallen from the noble viscount ; and that being the case, it cannot but be thought that the noble viscount considered them proper conditions, for the noble viscount and the right hon. gen tlemen were sitting foi nearly two years in the same Cabinet, and were fully cognisant of each other's views as to the terms and conditions of peace. I think this a grave matter for consideration, and it is a sorry proof of the harmony which was said to have existed in the Government of the noble lord ; and if these right hon. gentlemen had so little confidence in their chief I think it would have been far better if they had notjoined his Government. In the struggle in which we are engaged we have allies, and I should like to know whether they were made aware of the stipulations of the right hon. gentlemen ? Supposing that the conditions referred to Sebastopol—and I think it not unlikely that they did—what could be more natural than to suppose that our allies, deeming the rebuilding or destruction of that fortress most important, Should be desirous of imposing certain conditions with reference to this fortress, concerning which the right hon. gentlemen may have stipulated with the noble lord. The same remarks will apply to Bomarsund, and I ask if our allies were not made aware of the stipulations of the right hon. gentlemen, what be comes of our alliance ? There are many other considera tions which call for positive inquiry into these proceed ings, with reference to which I consider the noble lord's conduct was neither statesmanlike nor patriotic. There are further considerations connected with the subject with which I will not trouble the house, for the right hon. gen lemon have seceded from the Government of the noble lord, and the fatal influence which they exercised with re gard to the conduct of the war no longer paralyses his ac tions. I will ask the noble viscount—and I do it in no spirit of hostility, but because I think that, after the statement he has made, it is due to the house to have a clear and intelligible reply on this subject, and• because I think the conditions which we are to demand should be qualified by the successes of war—whether he is bound by the stipulations of February last, and whether he is pre pared to counsel his Sovereign and our somewhat forgotten allies to offer such terms as he considers will prevent the aggression of Russia for the future, and secure a safe and honourable peace? (Hear.) Lord PALMERSTON—However natural may be the desire of the hon. member to have a full explanation in this matter, I am sure—at least I am confident— that the house will concur with me in thinking that it would be ex ceedingly unbecoming in me to enter fully into this ques tion. (Hear.) 411 I shall state is this—and I trust it will be sufficient for the hon. member and the house. My right hen. friends who have lately ceased to be members of my Government, when they were considering proposals made by me that they should join my Government, very natu rally and very properly desired to come to a clear under standing with me as to any point of difference of opinion which they thought might afterwards arise, and I think in so doing they did that which was due to themselves and to me. (Hear, hear.) There was one point on which they required information, and that was whether it was the intention of the Government then forming to make a .sine qua non of peace. I stated, by the mutual friend through whom the communication was made, that the demand was not one of those which the Government was at that time entitled to make a sine qua non of peace, and that it was not my intention to propose it as such. It has been declared in repeated communications made by this Govern ment, and that of France and of Austria, and by them to Russia, that the conditions of peace would depend on the events of the war; and that which may at one time have been a condition which the sou. try was not entitled to make, yet under altered circumstances may become so. I hope that the house will consider what I have said in reply to the hon. member to be sutfisient, and will agree with me in thinking that I ought not to go into details on this subject. (Hear, hear.) Mr. DISR , AELI—It is, no doubt, of the utmost import ance that there should be a complete understanding between the members of a Government. The house has no right to ask for more than a general exposition of the main princi ple on which a government is formed. It has no right to inquire into all the conditions which may have taken place between the several members of the Government. But when in a debate of the magnitude of that which has taken place the members of the Government specifically referred to a particular stipulation and condition assented to by the noble lord who remains at the head of the Go vernment, her Majesty's Ministers must not be surprised at such a question as that asked by the hon. member. It is perfectly legitimate, Parliamentary, and constitutional, and her Majesty's Ministers must have expected an inquiry would be made after the specific allusion made by them to these stipulations. (Hear, hear.) I should not have riven, but I thought the tone of the noble lord's reply implied that the inquiry was improper ; but, as I have said, after what has taken place, he must have expected that such an inquiry would be made. Mr. GLADSTONE—Sir, I should not have risen to claim your protection against the language used by the hon. member—language which I do not think he has abandoned, as he might have done—had I not felt justified in so doing. I agree, however, with what has fallen from the right hon. member (Mr. Disraeli), and do not think that the slightest blame is to be attributed to the hon. member for making this inquiry. I feel a good deal em barrassed both by the question and the subject it has re ference to ; for it appears to me, in a question of this kind, one of two courses ought to be pursued. The House of Commons ought either to know nothing or everything. For my part, as far as my personal and strong inclination and earnest desire go, I wish that my noble friend, if he felt it consistent with his public duty, after having made reference to this subject, could have felt himself at liberty , to proceed, and have laid before the house all the informa tion in his power ; for I am certain that the effect of these partial references with information jealously and stintedly given—going up to a certain point and then stopped short by the plea of official reserve—cannot but be mischievous to all the parties concerned. (Hear, hear.) lam not in a condition to press for the information beyond express ing my personal inclination and desire that it should be given, but the public interest must rule all the de cisions in questions of this character. With regard to myself—and I do not, presume to speak for any one but my self—but for myself I beg leave to say that I am not aware that I have at any time, either directly or indirectly, by myself or through others, put a question to my noble friend with reference to the anticipated conditions of treaty with Russia, for this reason—l was not aware that any dif ference of opinion existed between us as to those condi tions, or that any such difficulty would arise. In thus speaking for myself, and"not admitting that I was a party to any question of the kind, I do not wish to be understood as making any assertion on behalf °tiny right hon. friend the member for Carlisle ; it is for my right hon. friend himself to state, if he thinks fit, the part which he took. As far a far as I a m concerne d , no commun i cat i on to wh i ch I party re had i reference t o an y p ar ti cu l ar s ti pu l a ti on , term, statediti of peace with Russia. I h o p e I h a ve explicitly my nothing An , the wo e r s l p d eci p a own inclination to the house. I leeply r egret the position i n w hi c h thi s quest i on stan d s . I sincerely wish, a ll s y se d in b a et case like thig h , l wh l er d e and my right ho n a . frie. no n e de u xcept what was per e fec n t e ly f e ra o n r k, and b. straightforward, table upon all sides, that, after 1