The Sun. — London, England, 1855-06-08 00:00:00

peace ; and I ask the right hon. gentleman, and I ask the house, what has happened since to make him a peace advo cate ? It was quite clear, when the right hon. gentleman joined the noble lord's Government, that this committee of inquiry would go on ; it was as certain that motions would be made in this house involving the consideration of the conduct of the war. The right hon. gentleman being a prom inent member of Lerd Ab er d een ' s G over nment, we have a right to consider that everything done and sail by that Government was done and saki by the right hon. gentleman himself. When the expedition to the Crimea was propounded by the Government—for it was pro pounded by the Government and not by the generals— the Duke of Newcastle wrote a despatch to Lord Raglan, in which he Said that there could be no peace for Europe until Sebastopol was taken and destroyed. That was the statement made by the Government, and for that statement I hold the sight hon. gentleman responsible. When the conferences at Vienna ended—l don't mean the day before yesterday—but when they ended in reality, before that sham scene was enactod in this, house, had Sebastopol then fallen ? (Hear, hear.) I will allow that the Russian fleet had been destroyed, but suppose that at that moment we had made peaee—l ask this house and I ask every thinking man what would have been the result of such a proceeding ? Would it not have been the univer sal opinion in the East, that England and France had been conquered—would it not have been the general opinion there that the fleets and armies of France and Englsnd had retired with disgrace and discredit - would it not have been plain to the smallest tribe in the East that we had left the Crimea because we could not take Sebastopol, and be muses we could not obtain the objects for which the war was entered into ? (Hear, hear.) Yet this is the conduct which the right hon. gentleman asks us to pursue. Sup pose wa had made peace, as the right hon. gentleman would have had us, would Europe have been safe— would the Turkish empire have been safe? True it is that the Russian army bad retired beyond the Pruth—that it had evacuated the Principalities—but what security have we that iu two years afterwards she would not have been across the Danube again ? What does the house think of the political morality which would recommend us to un dertake a war to obtain such paltry ends at those with which the right hoc. gentleman is satisfied ? We have spent millions of money, and sacrificed thousands of gal lant lives; our army has undergone unparalle'el suffer ings ; and all for what? Indeed it may be said that the right hon. gentleman is out of office, and I well know that that does make a wonderful difference in opinions ; but I again ask the house whether the power of Russia has been crippled, or whether any other object for which, when in office, he entered into the war had been attained ? I think, sir, that we should bringdegradation on this country if we adopted the course which he now suggests. He is one of those who cannot plead unwariness in the resolutions he takes. What he does he does with great deliberation. I don't say that he always acts prudently—(a laugh) —but that, if he acts imprudently, it is with his eyes open. It was with his eyes thus open that he undertook this ware and for what did he induce the people of England to leave their peaceful avocations and sacrifice their blood and trea sure? Was it simply that the Russian should retire be yond the Pruth, keeping all his armies and his power in tact and as great as ever, and with the reputation of Eng land and France reduced ? That is all we would have ob tained by following the right hon. gentleman's advice. We should, indeed, have had a peace, but a dishonourable peace, and our power would have been weaker than when we entered into the war. (Hear.) I will be frank with the noble lord at thehead of her Majesty's Government. I said in this house some days ago that the country had not con fidence in the present Government for the management of the conferences of Vienna; and I will now tell the noble lord why I said so. In the first place, a rumour had gone abroad that there were still in the noble lord's Government persons who felt as those felt who have left that Government ; and when I say this, I shall indulge in none of those taunts which the right hon. gentleman told us on the last night of this debate, were difficult to bear, such as that of being e the friend of Russia. What I impute to him is not that he was the friend of Russia, but that, from a mistake in judgment, he was not the friend of Eng land. I dont't suppose that he was a traitor to his country, but I believe that he has committed a grave error, awl, having done so, I have little faith in the right hon. gentle man's judgment in future. I have toll the noble lord that there was an impression that there are still in his Govern ment persons entertaining the same sentiments as those who lately seceded from it. One person to whom I partichlarly point is the noble lord the member for the City of London; and the reason why I say this is, that the noble lord held language at the conferences of Vienna that was unworthy of an English Minister. (Hear, hear) I say that no truly English Minister, especially no friend of ref o r m i n Par liament, would have put his hand to that protocol to which the noble lord put his, taking from an independent people the power over their own concerns. (" Hear, hear," from Mr. Layard.) Englene's interests are, I believe, the inte rests of the world, and those of civilisation and self-govern ment ' • but the noble lord sided with the despots of Europe —sided with those who would crush an independent peo ple, and take from them the management of their own affairs. The house must know the protocol to which Ino .v allude. A Minister of England, really understanding the position of his country and the part that Austria was play ing; would have whispered in the ear of the latter Power talismanic words which, when I name them, I know will rouse the voice of members of this house against me. But I am as sure as I am of my own existence that the time shall come when the three words which I would have men tioned to Austria shall be the watchwords of freedom and the forerunners of good government in Europe. The words mean are—" Poland, Hungary, Italy." (Hear, hear.) It may be said that I am now arousing nationalities. Sir, I take the part of nationalities against despots always, and I believe that Austria, if these words had been whis pered iu her ear, would have understood her position, and would not have played fast and loose as she has clone with the people of this country and of France, but would have trembled before the spirit that would have been conjured up before her at the sound of thos6 names. I know wisat I incur by the statement I now make ; but although, feeble as I am, I cannot maintain as I would wish the belief that I put forth, yet I am strong in the conviction that these threo words are talismans to Europa. I will tell the noble lord the member for the city of Londun that his first speech in this debate went far to answer the imputations that were rife in the public mind against him. I believe, from the statement it contained, that the world was let to suppose that the noble lord was not of that peace party which sits behind me, although I must say that the subsequent speeds of the noble lord went some what to undo the work of his first one. And, Sir, Ido ob ject to this fest and loose mode of speaking: (Hear, hear.) The people of England have been dragged by their lee ler3 into was-. I don't, however, mean to say that they have gone into it without a full confidence in those who 'reed them. The people have had such a confidence, but I sev it behoves those who are leaders of such a people to be stedfest iu their faith, and not in the month of September to send out to their generals despatches telling them that the only means of safety to Europe spring from the deetrue tion of Sebastopol and of the Russian fleet; and then, in the months of April, ally, and June, to ba the advecetes of a peace, and to propose that England should snake a sulunissiou to Russia. (Hear.) Ido not be- • lievo, however, that the neble lord at the head of her Ma jeste's councils is of this wavering disposition. I believe that he went into this'war with his eyes open and his spirit firm, that he was not about 'to vacillate from change of cir cumstances—personal chances I mean. I believe that he kept before him the interests of England, that thug in terests were, in Ids mind, paramount to all others, and that he meant to consider them far beyond himself. (hear.) I do hope that the noble lord will maintain the same r,pirit —that as eve entered into this war so we shall continue it —that we shall be firm, bild, straightforward—that what we gain we shall in no self-denying spirit unwarily give up--that what in the muse of civilisation against hl.rb i riern, of Europe against Russia, we acquire honestly by our arms we shall maintain firmly by the same means— that, our object being to cripple Russia, what we take we shall keep. These, sir, are signiticaee phrases, and I mean them to be such. To cripple Russia we are not to con sider her honour—(hear)—but we are to consider mankind as our allies in the struggle, and that in crippling Russia we are fighting the battle of mankind, and benefiting the whole human race. (Rear, hear.) Mr. S. HERBERT—Sir, I have risen thus early in the debate because I imagine it is the wish of the house, if pos sible, to compress the discussion within the scope of this night—(hear)—and I am anxious to leave time and room for others whom I think it is important that we should hear before we arrive at any decision on this question. The hon, and learned gentleman who has just sat down has made an attack on my right hon. friend who sits beshle me (Sir J. Graham), upon grounds which no doubt he thinks are conclusive against him, but which I trust in a few sen tences to convince him are fallacious. He says, in the first place, that in a despatch written by the Duke of Newcastle so far back as June last, a despatch which was produced before the committee of which the hon. and learned gen• tleman is chairman, the Duke of Newcastle pledged this country to make no peace until the fortress of Sebastopol was captured or destroyed. Let me say, so far as these words aro concerned, that is not a correct quotation. The Duke of Newcastle never said there shall be no peace. He said there will be no prospect of peace—(bear, and laughter)—no prospect of peace until we can deal to Russia such a bodyblow as shall induce her to submit to the terms we hope to get. (Hear.) The hon. and learned. getrtleman cheers that. See back to the first despatch in which the Duke of Newcastle says, "'Bear in mind that if the Russian generals make no demonstration of any further onward movement, it may become essential for the attainment of the objects of the war that some ope rations of an offensive character be undertaken by the allied armies ;" some operations actually of an offensive character, but being part of a defensive system they should be to that extent defensive operations. lie goes on "No blow that could be struck at the southern extremities of Russia would be so effectual as the taking of Sebastopol," The Dake of Newcastle conceived that to be the heaviest blow which could be dealt to the Russian empire. Sig J. PAKINGTON.—Is that the despatch of the 10th of April. Mr. S. HERBERT.—Yes, and then comes the subse quent despatch of the 29th of July. Ido not see how, after those despatches, the honourable and learned gen tleman can say the Duke of Newcastle ever said we could not make peace till the fortress was taken ; for how can he reconcile that with the fact that in the despatch th ere i s not one word of imperat i ve injunc tion, but the g enera l i s t o ld it i s l e ft t o his discre tion? a ("gear, hear," f rom Mr. R oe buck.) Yes, but the discretion was not left because we would not make peace without it, but to undertake operations which, if successful, 'would, more than any other, force Russia to accept terms of of the Pace. Is that the plain and obvious mean inglearned gentleman expression? (Hear, and a laugh.) The hon. and o Fa n iett I ask him, if the capture of Sebastopol was to bae'llie ( c l it e i a on of peace, why in the four points did it not app eee s My right hon. friend the member for Southwark in hisreloquent and impassioned speech said, " you do not ,. take Sebastopol you will have to return to England and furl your banners in disgrace." Is that so ? What w o uld have happen e d if , 10 days as e a ee g n dition of peace? o, R uss i a had accepted the limitation (Hear.) That was wh at the late Mr. Sheil would have called a " rhetorical artifice." The whOle error consists in this feet, we are making confusion of two things essentially distinct — conf o unding the °peeweeB . of war, which are the mea ns to an end, w i th the enditself. The operations of war are conducted with a view to forc e your antagonist to agree to peace. When you are • 6 at war, I agree with the hon. baron et . Lytton) that we should humble our enemy if p ossible. When at war, injure her, humble her, crush h er, if y ou can. (Hear. ) But when you contemplate peace you can stand ond iffe. rent ground. In the first case, when deali n g w it h an enemy, you are right to crush him, but in the secon d you man who is about to become your , 1 mistrust him, tie his hand s, but don 't embe "it the man whom yon hope may pass from that question raised bythe tleman, and come to another ma tt er line importance in this discussion. In ‘e say feel es everybody else feel,/ in S .anycide.alif with - a 1 A6,Zt`t t;o7ltratill'o7 mi • 4,,,, 7 le nne y our f • man .r.. 1, !lend , I on. and. lea • ' tr! A_ whieh I think Tlawl Wil ,--j0 , o r , o , the ant place, let tae ....1% ( ....9 . ,f ..V . 1.1.-0;-:;- 1 4....../ . 11'.4,1:sAi SVAI4NI THE 6 1, UN, LONDON I FRIDAY EVENI:.(4, JUNE 8 1855. the utmost difficulty arising from the great confusion into which the subject has been thrown—the confusion of opi nions beyond the power of human ingenuity to understand. We have a war party, we have a peace party, and subdi visions of both, with different objects and differentatntece dents or points of departure. Take the party which is of opi nion the time has come when the country may , aith houour to itself, and with material advantage to her interests, make an honourable, s4e, and prudent peace. How is that point urged by those who hold that opinion? We have the hon. member for Manchester, who has from the first objected to the war, and who has, let me say, in speeches of consummate ability and earnestness urged those opinions, and with a courage which does him credit, for he stood almost alone against an immense amount of popular feeling, which ho resisted in the consciousness of a sincere conviction in the opinions he advocated. Then we have my right hon. friend his colleague (Mr. Gibson) who disapproved of the war from its commencement, but does not share all the opinions of his hon. colleague. Then we have those sitting immediately behind me, who were, like me, advocates for a war for which they shared some por tion of the responsibility--(hear)—and willing to bear it, thinking they can justify it. We think it is not right to assert that there is anything inconsistent or dish°- , nourabla in those who were advocates for war to attain certain objects, when they think those objects have been gained, to become the advocates of a peace as a natural consequence. The hon. baronet opposite (Sir E. B. Lyt ton), to whose speech I listened with the pleasure which all must have felt, as it was essentially the speech of a gen tleman and a scholar, asked, "How comes it you who were advocates for beginning war are now advocates of peace?" Well, that begs the whole question of what has happened since. (Hear.) I now, calmly looking back at the history of the war, recollecting the circumstances from which it sprung, the attitude of Russia towards Turkey, the imminent danger to the latter Power, and recollecting what I held then, as I hold now, as one of the greatest in stances, I must say, brigandage—for we have no word in English which suits it—and violation of the public law of Europe—the invasion of the principalities by Russia — well, I hold all those opinions now, but I ask who can avoid feeling the weight of responsibility ? And, I declare before God, I know nothing more painful, more grating on the con science of a man than having to give, even as an humble member of a Government, his ay or no upon a question which involves such fearful consequences and exposes his country to such fearful hazards and distresses. (Hear.) It was, then, in no spirit of levity, and not adopted without weighty consideration of the great interests involved, that I came to the conclusion that my voice should be given in favour of a declaration of war. I justify it to myself by the magnitude of the objects we sought to obtain. Those ob jects we specified and stated over and over again in public documents, which are historical—in treaties with our allies. I will tell you what the objects were. They were the abro gation of that network of treaties by which Russia held Turkey in her grasp—(hear)—they were the abolition of that exclusive claim to a protectorate of the Christians which would have given them a right of interference dan gerous to Turkey—the freedom of the Danube. Those were objects of paramount importance, and were specified in public documents, and in our agreements with France, Aus tria, Turkey, and Prussia. In not one of those documents was there any mention of "limitation." OUr objects were separate from that; limitation was the child of after-growth. Having stated these objects, and having the strongest con viction of their immense value and importance, when you ask me, "How can you who were for war be now for peace ?" I ask, " How can we be for war now those objects are obtained ; and how can you pretend those objects are worthless and of insufficient value for peace,and yet justify the war ?" (Hear.) That is my answer to that. I think we have not in this country done ourselves justice. We have not done justice to the military operations or the suc cesses we have achieved; we are not now doing justice to the value and extent of the submission to which Russia has been forced. The hon. baronet (Sir E. B. Lytton) said, in answer to my right hon. friend the member for the Uni versity of Oxford, these concessions, these terms are not due to negotiations—they are owing to the efforts of your arms. I accept that; but in the first place you never do get terms by negotiations. The sword gets them, and it is the business of negotiation to define in intelligible terms the nature and extent of the successes you have gained. What have been our military successes ; what s the difference in the relations of Russia and Turkey a a military and strategical point of view ? The latter Power went to war and made a few successful forays across the Danube with great distinction; but the principalities were in the occupation of Russia. Those principalities are now evacuated. Early in the commencement of th e cam- paign you had the destruction of the fortresses on the Cir cassian coast, the capture of Bomarsund, the blockade of two seas, the destruction of Russian commerce, and the inability of Russian men-of-war to show their flag in any 'part of those seas which she boasted were her lakes. You have also, it is said, insurrection in some of those pro vinces where the peasants are Russian and the nobles aro Polish ; you have a growing discontent among a nobility accustomed to seek throughout for pleasures which they cannot find at home ; and lastly, and most im portant of all, you have the inability of Russia, the strongest and most exclusively military Power in the world in its objects and habits, to expel from its shores for eight months two hostile armies encamped upon its soil. We have not done ourselves justice, we have kept our eyes fixed with microscopic exactitude upon failures, not upon defeats, because from beginning to end oar army has never met with defeat. The superiority of our navy has been admitted. The terror of her name has deprived her of the triumphs she had a right to expect, because the Rus sian fleets have been unwilling in any one instance to face the navies of the allies. Last of all, you have had a success at which I rejoice with all my heart. I mean the success of which you recently received the outline by telegraph, and the details by the despatches published to-day. I wish to sly a few words upoa thesuccesses at Kertch. The hon. and learned member for Plymouth (Mr. Collier) has attacked those members of the late Government who left it under cir cumstances which my hon. and learned friend (Mr. Roebuck) has de,ct ibe 1 with the gusto with which a sportsman recites the number of pheasants lee has bagged—(a laugh)—and the hon. and learned gentleman stated that the successes which have now been obtained are owing to the with drawal from the Cabinet of men whose heart was not in the war, and who paralysed by their directions the efforts which would otherwise have been made and the successes which would otherwise have been obtained by the naval and military commanders. That is a grave charge, and one which I will not pretend to answer by any professions of my own. I say sincerely, that if any one, after a life of 20 years spent iu this house and devoted to the public ser vice —and of course the observation applies still more strongly to the two gentlemen sitting beside me (Sir J. Graham and Mr. Gladstone)—can be supposed to have been guilty of conduct so base and treeeonable, there is uo use in character, and I cannot conleseend to enter protests, caveats, or denials against such a charge. Bat let us I , ok at the faets. The army, it is said, is now in a better con dition, end, thank God, so it is. The hon. and learned !number for Enniskillen (lie. Whiteside) cheers me, and I am glad to say that in his speech the other night he male an apprcaeh to accuracy npori this- subject, for, in speaking of the number of soldiers that had pHs aodeto said we had lost half of our army. That is a gradual subsi tenets from old exaggeration. We did not lose half nor a quarter of our army, although, God knows, we lost enough, for, from the 1-set returns—and they are fearful to contemplate—l find that upwar Is of 13,000 men have, since the fir - stdeclaration of war, fallen victims tothesword or disease. But we should be cautions how we exaggerate these numbers. We should recollect what may be the effect of our doing so, how much we may thereby damage our position with regard to nego tiations. The hon. and learned gentleman says, that suc cesses have been obtained because three traitors have been expelled from the Cabinet, and there are stories circulating, alt over the town as to my right hen. friend (Sir J. Gra ham) being the man who prevented the expedition to Kertch and the bombardment of Odessa. I regretted to hear the hon. member for the West Riding, in his able and eloquent speech deprecate in some respects our successes at Kertch, and say that the corn taken by us was private pro perty. Now, I read in the newspaper to-dey the state ment of General Pelissier, taken from the Moniteur, upon that subject, General Pelissier, says,— " Advices received from Kertch, dated the 31st of May, an nounce that, on the refusal of the military authorities of Genitchi, situate on the northern extremity of the tongue of land of Arabat, to give up the Government stores and 90 ves sels laden with provisions for the Russian army in I heCriinea, the squadron, under the orders of Captain Lyon, bombarded the place, drove out the troops, and destroyed all the stores. The enemy has thus lost, in four days, an immense quantity of provisions, four war steamers, and 240 vessels employed exclusively in provisioning the troops in the Crimea." (Cheers.) On the other hand, I think the press is now, in its leading articles, drawing inferences from the successes which are not justified by the facts, for it is talking as if Arabat and Genitchi were already taken. But, although we have bombarded the one and desroyed the stores at the other place, we are not yet in possession of them, and we must not, therefore, think, because of the successes wo have obtained, that we are already masters of the Putrid Sea. I hail these successes, because In war success is the best road to pease—(hear, hear)—but if, after your objects were at tained, you still went on for mere military success, year criminality would be great. (Hear, hear.) This nation is a generous nation, and T. believe that if we have success (as I trust in God we may) the difficulty will not bo to extort sufficiently high terms from Russia, but there will be a feeling in this country, to care nothing for terms, to say—we have got what we wanted, we have taught Russia a great lesson, let bygones be bygones; and the difficulty will be to get public opinion to back diplomatists in ask ing for any terms at all. I will now revert to the speech of the honourable and learned member for Plymouth, who looked upon my right honourable friend as a traitor for having prevented the execution of the operations which have since been undertaken. Eager and anxious officers are said to have been urging the Admiralty to undertake those services, and from my right honourable friend are supposed to have proceeded the chilling orders to refrain from carrying out measures which would have facili tated our operations. Now, I have the permission of the noble lord at the head of the Government to read some despatches upon this subject, and I will first take one dated October 13, 1854, because it comprehends several points. " The Secretary to the Admiralty to Vice-Admiral Dundas. " Admiralty, Oct. 13, 1851. " Sir,—l am commanded by my Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty, with reference to the operations of the fleet under your orders, to call your special and particular atten tion to the necessity of exercising the utmost vigilance and care in preventing the movement of craft of all descriptions proceeding out of the Bay of Kherson and the River Dniester, and I am to signify their directions to you to take every precaution in your power to prevent communication with the Crimea from ports in that direction. My lords are further of opinion that, whenever the means at your dis posal will admit, proper measures should be concerted with your colleagues in command of the allied forces for obtain ing au entrance by the Gulf of Kertch into the Sea of Azoff, with a view to interrupt the communications of the enemy with the eastern shores of the Crimea, to which their lord ships have always attached the greatest importance. In con cert, likewise, with your colleagues, my lords consider that no opportunities should be lost to occupy the attention of the enemy by frequent attacks upon all parts of the coast extend ing from the mouths of the Danube to the isthmus of Perekop, and that any proper opportunity for the bombardment of Odessa should not be omitted." (Hear.) That is my answer to the hon. and learned gentle man. (Cheers.) I now wish to say one word in defence of Admiral Dundas. I should be the last man to cast imputa tions on those who are absent, but I am bound to state that there was a conclusive reason why Admiral Dundas, who was himself eager for the attack on Odessa, did not undertake it. Admiral Dundas wanted to make the at tack ; he had prepared means for it, but he was prevented. What Sped him ? Why, it was the opinion, given upon strategicsrounds, not only of the English, but also of the French :nh consequenceDundas of their urgent request that Admiral the strategic reason: could not undertake the operation. ) I am not giving my opinion as to whether or not, I am not co assigned by the generals were sound competent to do so, but I say that they entirely acquit Admiral Dundee. If there is any doubt as _ to the intentions of may rightfund, um:4 at the heed of the Admiralty, as .to Odessa, I will read a despatch which I think will satisfy the house on that subject. Lord SEYMOUR —I wish to ask whether this despatch has been laid upon the table—(cheers)—because I think that if we are to have a discussion on the despatches, and if they are to be read on one side, we ought to have the answers to them on the other. (Hear.) I shall therefore move for those despatches, and for any answer which may have been received in reply to them. (Hear, hear.) I hope the noble lord at the head of the Government will not ob ject to lay them before the house. (Hear.) Mr. S. HERBERT—The objection is a fair one. It is a rule of the house that no despatches shall be read which have not been laid upon the table, but there are moments and occasions when the generosity of the house will allow that rule to be departed from, when a man's character is _ _ _ _ attacked, and when he can vindicate himself by the reading of a despatch to the publication of which the noble lord at the head of her Majesty's Government makes no objection on the ground of public convenience. The house will therefore bear with me while I read it : " Admiralty, Dec. 8, 1854. " Sir,-• I am commanded by my Lot ds Commissioners of the Admiralty to call your attention to their letter of the 13th of October last, No. 622, respecting an attack on the port of Odessa at any proper opportunity. " Although this question has been postponed, at the re quest of the generals commanding the allied forces on shore, my Lords are of opinion it should be again taken into con sideration, with a view to an effectual operation whenever circumstances will permit " I am, &c., " Vice-Admiral Dundas." " R. OSBORNE. Now, the noble lord (Seymour) says I ought not to read these despatches unless the house has also the answers to them. But I have given a reason why Admiral Dundas had not executed the attack upon Odessa, and Why he should be acquitted of all blame. I have made no innuta tion upon the commanders on shore. I have no doubt‘they had sound and good military reasons for doing what they did. But these despatches are necessary to the defence of a public man, whose character is public property. And now let me say a few words with regard to the Straits of Kertch. It may be said, " Why did not Sir E. Lyons attack Kertch and open the passage before?" My right hon. friend stated on a previous occasion, and stated with truth, that the Russians had blocked up the passage with ships sunk for that purpose. But the other day it was said, Where are the ships ?" It was stated that there were no ships sunk, that the statement of my right hon. friend was a mere ex cuse, and that the thing ought to have been done long ago. But what does Admiral Lyons say in his letter published in the Times of to-day, and addressed to the Secretary of the Admiralty ? He says : " Had this expedition been deferred but a short time longer there would have been many and great difficulties to overcome, for the enemy was actively employed in strength ening the sea defences, and in replacing the sunken vessels which had been carried away by the current during the winter months." And this is a current from a frozen sea, which brings down is ith it many obstacles to navigation. The letter proceeds:— " Of the 40 vessels sunk last year some still remain, and a French steamer touched upon one of them yesterday. It appears that the enemy did not succeed in destroying the coals, either at Kertch or Yenikale, so that about 17,000 tons remain, which will be available for our steamers." Well, that is my answer, and I think it is conclusive and satisfactory against those discreditable attacks which were made on Tuesday by the hon. and learned member for Ply mouth (Mr. Collier). I have said that the objects of the war have been successfully attained, and that this gives us a golden opportunity of bringing the war to a termination whenever the country shall be so pleased. My right hon. friend (Sir J. Graham), in that lucid and masterly speech which he addressed to the house on Tuesday night, wont seriatim through the proposals made at the conferences. I will not enter upon the question of the protectorate of the principalities. I will not enter upon the question of the free dom of the navigation of the Danube, or the question of the right of interference with regard to the protection of the Christians in general in Turkey, except in passing to say that I was struck by a statement made by the noble lord (J. Russell), who stated as a reason for not having entered upon the fourth point that he found in a conversation with the Turkish ambassador that he objected to a stipulation which would infringe on the rights of the suzerain of Turkey by giving a vested right in interference, not to one nation, but to several, in the internal concerns of Turkey. Well, that was not an unnatural observation for the ambassador of Turkey to make, but there was this singularity in it, that, after the enemy had agreed, not to the particular sti pulations, but to the four bases upon which peace should be concluded, there was one party who had not given in a similar agreement, and that party. was our ally. Now, that complicated the negotiations considerably. With regard to the third point, we should recollect that it di vided itself into several portions. Yon have the question touched upon by the hon. gentleman (Sir B. Lytton), that that which was merely the preamble of the treaty of 184 L is now to be converted into a condition. There was a state ment with regard to the independence of Turkey which was recited iu the treaty, but it was not made a condition in the treaty. Bat now, by a concession, as the hon. gentle man says, extorted by the sword of Alma and of Inker man, it becomesi converted into a condition. Well, now, look at the question of the Straits. The noble lord was offered by Russia the mare apertum. He gave his rea son for not accepting it, and I thought it unanswer able. For some time I have held that opinion my self. But let me recall the attention of the house to a circumstance which should,show how cautious we ought to be in pledging ourselves to opinions upon matters with which we are but little acquainted. (Hear, hear.) When the question of peace was discussed 12 mouths ago in the press every one said that no peace would be good fir anything which did not open the Straits. [Mr. LAYAIM —" I protested against it."] The hon. member for Ayles bury, having a great knowledge of tho country, protested ag^inst that opinion, but scarcely any one discussed the question in the press who did not say—" He must open the Dardanelles.' Tho noble lord, however, said twat to open the Dardanelles would be to infringe the rights of Turkey, and would be a great advantage to itussia. It would introduce the Russian fleet into the Medi erranean, where we have great interests, and it would allow Russia or any other power to menace the existence of Turkey, which is a weak power. (Hear.) I thought that was a conclusive answer. But what was the second proposition of Russia with regard to the Straits? The limitation of the Russian fleet in the Black Sea seems to be falling into general disrepute. I was originally, like my right hon. friend, a party to limitation ; bat it was not one of the original objects of the war. It was not, I think, heard of till December last. lam not sate by which of the coufed rates it was suggested. T. am nor disposed to blame the Government for making it a sine qua non, to which, however, we were no party. We should be careful how we blame the Government for small matters, in which they may be sometimes erroneous. They may have several courses which they may pursue, and the difference between those courses may bo very small. The Government can but adopt one, and in this particular C2B) an Opposition has great advantages. They we got as the ground of opposition the errors, not of one Government, but of four; and any Government may have to take the course which it may not itself prefer. We should, therefore, look with indulgence on the conduct of the Government in questions of this kind. Hon. mem bers may wish only to attack the Government, but the shaft goes further, and they may be strikingsan ally instead of hitting the Government. (Hear.) Well, but the limi tation isnow pretty generally said to be illusive. Thenoble lord said the Russians were only to have air ships in the Black Sea, but some ohe said seven or eight. The hon. member for the West Riding argued that it was impossible to go to war upon one ship more or loss. The noble lord replied that they could not, but that when Russia had seven or eight instead of four ships, the suspicions of Eu rope would be aroused, and then some steps would be taken to prevent the threatened evil. The hon. member for the West Riding further stated that Rassia could get ships built, not of rotten timber, at home, but could get screw vessels of the greatest size built in the Thames or the Mersey. But to that the noble lord said, " No ; for no ves sels unarmed could pass the Straits." There, I think, the noble lord was in error, for I believe that any ships not armed coul I pass the Straits. (Hoar.) Hero, then, was another argument in favour of limitation destroyed. I do not know with whom the question of limitation origi nated. I do not make that limitation a charge against the Government—l cannot afford to do so—but I was not a party, and I do not know who is, to making this a sine qua non. It will not be found, from the papers pre sented to Parliament, that the French or Austrian Go v2rnment made it an ultimatum. It was not an ultima tum, or a sine qua non. My impression is that it was a fresh importation into the differences between us and Rus sia, but I believe that, at all events, this particular basis is now defunct. We should now consider what was the merit of the counter-offer made by Russia. Ido not think that question has yet been fairly stated. Constantinople is a capital situated upon a narrow strait. Turkey exercises, and has exercised, from time immemorial the right —some say the natural right—of closing these Straits, upwards or downwards, to ships of war. Other capitals are placed in a position somewhat similar. In the Bay of Naples, I believe, ships above a certain number of tons are not allowed to enter. At Copenhagen no ships of war are permitted to come within three miles of a certain battery. But by the treaty of 1841 this restriction was put on Turkey,—that, although her right to close the Straits was recognised, she could not open them at all except in case of war, and then not in favour of one particular nation, but in favour of all. (Hear, hear.) Was that the proposal made by Russia ? No ! Tho proposal made by Russia was this — that Turkey, at her discretion, shall either open the Darda nelles upwards, or the Bosphorus downwards, to any one power she chooses at any time she thinks herself menaced, and although she may not bo at war. The only restriction in the Russian document is when Turkey considers herself menaced. There may be objections to that. I can fancy arguments against it. But Russia has not told us to what extent she will concede ; she has not produced this propo sal as an ultimatum, but as something for negotiation, re serving to herself the right to concede it if she cannot es cape from it. Now, if we recognise Turkey as an indepen dent power she has that natural right, and if so, it may be said it is no concession on the part of Russia ; but is Rus sia making no concession when she deprives herself of the natural right of issuing from the Black Sea into the Medi terranean? In case Turkey should be menaced by Russia after such an arrangement, what does she do ? Declare war. That is always a fatal course for Turkey, unless she has friends to back her. No ; but she can call to her aid a fleet which shall preponderate, and from that moment you have the cessesion of Russian preponderance which you want, and that safety for Turkey which she requires. (Hear.) Now, I frankly confess that, if it had been sub mitted to me, when a member of the Government, to make this proposal to Russia, I should have said, "You may ask it, as in negotiation you may ask anything." No one knows better than the noble lord (Lord Palmerston), after the NorthiAmericr treaty of the late Lord Ashburton, that you do not go into negotiation with an ultimatum, and I should have said, " You may ask it if you like, but it is c hildish to think that Russia will ever make snob a conces sion." By the treaty of 1841 great restrictions were placed upon Turkey. That treaty was drawn by the hand of Baron Brunow. By that treaty, and those restrictions on Turkey, Russia secured important advantages to herself. By refusing this proposal you go back to the status quo and those restrictions which Baron Brunow imposed; and you throw away immense advantages, which have been with held since 1841, but which now you have an opportunity of ex t ra ct from a e rega i n ing. (Cheers.) Is l t t h t i e s r o tt p e i n ni i o n n l e B n 2 l 9 y b ? y s H ir er ß e e i b s e a r n privatet the treaty e our f ambassadorAdrianople. Fi C e on h s a t d an s t e i e n n op a le v , i a e t te t r h i e eu ti e meof Rus sian army—or, at any r ate, what was supposed to be a vic t ori ous a m lost immensely in y—a t Adrianople, in the Black Sea : " I beg to record my opinio n that, should En g land at any be Turkey, territorydictating and strength, terins by which and here is his Turkey opinion what should be the policy of En g land time go to war with Russia , a nd the seat of war . you ought to take care to hav e a British fleet on this side the Dardanelles. This - alone can save (and it will effectually save) the Porte from utter destruction, while Russia will be at tacked in the only quarter in which she is directly vulnerable to Great Britain." (Hear.) That is the opinion of a man who knew tho roughly the merits of the coo to whio4 him attention 104 been turned, under . verY:important and peculiar ci 'CUM- stances, and he at that distance of time foresaw themeces• site of some arrangement by which to have an English fleet in the Blrck Sea. If you can have an. English or a WJstern Power fleet (I do not care which for the Purpose of my ar gument) in the Black Sea, not after war is declared, but without any due having a right to declare war on that as. count, or to take offence, or even to ask explanations, you may depend op n it that it is the most effectual way of protecting Turrrey. I said I would not touch upon the other points. I have mentioned this point because I do not think sufficient attention has been directed to it, and as far as my judgment can lead me, mybelief isthat if in the autumn of 1853, instead of the then treaty preventing. Turkey al lowing any ships of war to enter into the Black Sea, we had had this proposal which we have now extorted from Russia by our success in war, the presence then of two powerful fleets in the Black Sea might have prevented any war whatever. (Cheers.) It was not open to us. We had a treaty to break, but I do believe, looking back to the cir cumstances, that if this propo sa l had formed the treaty then, we should have escaped the war. (Hear.) The house has heard me with great indulgence, and wish to be very brief as the only return I can make. The hon. baronet op posite (Sir B. Lytton)—he must pardon me for again re ferring to him, as it is but the penalty of making a speech so argumentative and able as .his --the hon. baronet says to my right hon. friend the member for the University of O x ford (Mr. Gladstone)—" You cannot have had your heart warm, because at the outset of the war you describe the objects of it in such low terms," and the hon. baronet quoted a passage from the speech f the right hon. member for the University, in which he said the Turkish Govern ment was full of anomalies, " Think," says the hon. hart., " of your chilling the people by saying you wero going to war for a Government full of anomalies." Well, is it not full of anomalies? (Hear, hear.) But I apprehend we are not making war for the purpose of supporting the in stitutions of Turkey, but regretting that her institutions, her religion, and everything about her, should have ex posed her to attack. We think it desirable that some other Power than Russia should hold the key of the Dar danelles we cannot help it, but Turkey happens to be there, mid so we support her by our arms. The hon. hart. says, in order to excite the people, you should not tell the truth—you should not tell these chilling facts to the people, but paint the objects of the war in brighter colours. I must say if those ingredients to excitement were wanting to be supplied, so great have been the contributions of other parties that if the Government had had no scruple on the subject it would have been a work of supererogation to throw in any additional number. (Hear, hear.) I re joice to think my right hon. friend has not been guilty of exaggerating the objects of the war, or the advantages of the nation whom we defend, not because we are bound by treaty to defend her, but to retain a great Power in the Mediterranean, and to prevent Russia marching on in her policy of aggression. (Hear, hear.) I have spoken of the - advantages of the proposal of Russia with respect to the Black Sea. The immense advantages from the abrogation of treaties, which were as a net-work upon Turkey, no olio ought to know better than England. What has Russia done ? Russie has been in the habit of treatin g Turkey . as an Asiatic Power. How do wo treat an Asiatic Power ? How does France treat an African Power? We know that whenever a civilised nation comes in contact with a barbarous nation, seemingly by a law of Providence, the one absorbs the other. But what do we do in Asia?- We make a treaty, anthill° moment the Sovereign puts his hand to a treaty, be heSultan, Nabob, Rajah, or Ameer, his power has departed from him. We take an early oppor tunity of declaring that the conditions have been broken, it is a casus bells, we pounce upon him, and there is an end. (Cheers.) That is the way France treats, in Africa, with the uncivilised nations next to her. Thetis the way Russia treats with the uncivilised nations next to her. The mistake Russia committed was, that she applied this system of treaty to a European Power; for, though by nature Asiatic, Tur key, by her geographical situation is European. Europe cannot afford to have these loose Asiatic principles. obtain ing in the case of Turkey, and, therefore, England, France, and Austria—Austria chiefly—are interested in preventing this ageression. Now comes the questicn, what are we Co do ? fhave said the peace party is very much divided. They start from different points ; but they have the same end in view, thinking there is an opportunity now of effect ing an honourable termination of this war. (Hear.) Are the war party perfectly agreed ? (Hear.) What says my hon. and learned friend who opened the debate this even ing? " Whisper but throe words"—that is, whisper three words to Austria; and I must say here, in reference to what has fallen from the hon. and learned gentleman, .I beg leave to give my hearty dissent from the opinion that the noble lord (J. Russell), in the late conferences, played a part unworthy of the British nation—(cheers)—because, loooking through those papers, I am bound to say I think the conduct of the noble lord was dictated by a high sense of the honour and interest of his country, and that he eves in no way an unfit representative of England either conduct or character on that occasion. (Cheers.) But what says my hon. and learned friend. Whisper but three words int) the ear of Austria—" Poland, Hungary, Italy." I have heard complaints that Austria will not fight; I have heard complaints that Prussia will not go heartily with us. Whisper, says my hon. and learned friend, to Austria and to Prussia the word Poland. But I ask you, do you. want to drive those two Powers into strict alliance with your enemy ? If so, that whisper will 40 it. (Hear.) I was glad to hear the noble lord at the head Of the Govern ment say that the balance of power in Europe could only be proservedby maintaining the strength of Austria. We must not be led away by our sympathies nor by any abstract re gard for nationalities. Whisper " Poland," whisper " Hungary," and what will be the consequence to Europe. Then, again, the hon. and learned gentleman says, whisper " but to whom are we to whisper it ? To Austria? 'ls all Italy Austria? Is it the Austrian bayonet alone that keeps Italy down? If you whisper " Italy," you must whisper it in a much gentler tone to another Power —to a Power more closely allied to England herself. (Heer.) The moment you interfere with nationalities, away with the doctrine that you are not to meddle with political and religious sympathies, and are not to seek to propagate certain opinions and princVe . (L-Tear.)' 'lf ever it enc. - ad come to a war of nationalities, England, Prete.- to.nt England, free England, must never forget that there is one country which hasten thousand times greater claims than Poland or Hungary on her regard. By a great crime Poland may have been . divided ; by a political injustice, Hungary may have been subjeeete I ; but in those countries it is the abaence of individual'liberty that is suffered, it is the oppression of the body, as it were, that is to be enured; but there is a country in which not only the body, bitt - the mind, the intellect, and the soul are etalaved—and by whom? By the Government of the Pope, which seems to be perpetuated by Providence in order to give us n. warning never to trust the management of temper:ll affairs to the guidance of ecclesiastics. (Cheers.) If such a S! . .ite is in existenee, what can be the affections of the people for their Government? What did I razed two days ago in the foreign c rre Tentleece of a newspaper? T read au account of the Peace havieg effected his return to Rom e from, Castel Son dolfo ; but 'how did he effect it? It was done by station ing it interval., small pickets of mounted gendermerie alorig the line of his route. tut, if you are going to whisper na tionalitie3—if you are going to name Poland, llnngery, and Italy as wards of menace—you must whisper them to one whose sympathies are Roman Catholic, and who gives great support to the Roman Catholic faith in his own do minions ; you must whisper them to an ally who is, in this partibular, diametrically opposed to you in his sympathies, and whose alliance is too valuable to be trifled with.for the sake of any such Utopian topics as these. - (Hear.) You must whisper them to one who has bean fighting by your side with a bravery, a fidelity, a courage, and good-fellow ship that has never been surpassed. (Cheers.) Speaking, of the time when I was a member of the Government, I can bear testimony that the Emperor of the French be haved towards the English Government with a frankness, cordiality, and good faith to which I attach the greatest importance. But do I attach to it that importance merely because we are engaged in a mighty enterprise together ? No; but I do so because I believe that the conduct of the Emperor of the French is the conduct of the French people. I believe that he represent; the French nation, that he un derstands their feelings, and thoroughly appreciates their character; and I trust in G o d th a t wh e n this war shall be happily at an end the alliance we have now formed may lay the foundation of a lasting friendship between this country and that gallant and chivalrous people. (Cheers.) But the question with us now is, what are we to do ? The four points are, or are not, at au end—l don't know which. It has been lately stated by Lord Clarendon that the four points may still be considered to contain the main objects of the war. The noble lord the member for the city of London, in the course of this debate, has used expressions with regard to Russia which have given great alarm to hon. gentlemen occupying the benches below the gangway. He said that the Russian family had entered into marriage alliances with the German Courts; and I observed also that Lord Clarendon adopted a similar line of argument in-a speech delivered by him in the House of Lords, when he at the same time observed that Russia had been con verting her line-of-battle ships into screw-steamers and was covering her territory with railways. The reflection I made oa reading this was, that I hoped to God we were not going to establish as a precedent, that 'the fact of an Emperor forming family alliances efith Gorman princes and of covering his territory with railways was a suffi cient reason why we should go to war with him. (Cheers and laughter.) I am bound, however, to say that the noble lord satisfied me on Tuesday night that he had no intention of establishing such a precedent. He said that he had used those statements merely as facts the truth of which was well known. Having had the honour of being Lord Clarendon's colleague, I can bear my humble tes timony to the great ability, patience, and tact with which ha has carried on the most difficult negotiations and which requited immediate action. (Hear, hear.) Well, sir, in regard to the course which is now to be taken .by this country, before any decisive step is determined upon, it is necessary that we should carefully look both at the state of our alliances and at the existing state of Europe in general. have already spoken of the interest which France and of the interest which Austria has in this war. There is no doubt that with respect to the people of France the war is not so popular with them as it is with the people of England. Any man coming from France will tell you this. The alliance with England is popular in France, but the war is not. And why is this ? It cannot be because it has imposed any additional burden of taxation on the people; for the war has hitherto been carried on by France wholly upon credit. There has not been one sixpence additional taxation im posed upon them on account of the war. The reason why the war is not popular in France I believe to be that its objects are too remote to be tangible to the imaginations of the French people. It is a war which commenced with self-denying ordinances in respect to commerce ; but, I ask, has the Emperor of the French himself the same zeal in the cause of war as is felt by England ? We know that the Emperor Napoleon is his own Minister, but that the Foreign Mini s t er o f F rance i s v i r t u ally. Prime Minister. Now, we also know that M. Drouyn de Lhuys, the late colleague of the noble lord at Vienna, made a proposal to us. I assume that that proposal was made with the ap proval of the Emperor; and what is it that I saw two or three days after this proposal was said to have been tnade ? t l io re n a s fo di r n the Monit e ur an e xtract from the Independance Beige — a publication u nder the immediate surveillance of the G overnment—to the effec t th a t th e F renc h G overn . ment had ma d e cer t a i n proposa ls for renewing negotia peace, and which proposals wore believed to be in consonance with the interests and honour of France, but that the Emperor had consented to withdraw those pro posals out of respect to England. Now, I infer from that that France is nearer making, peace than we are. I believe she will stand by you in this struggle aa long as she can, but her interests are different. I believe in the cordiality of her friendship, but there is no friendship so cordial that can admit of being taxed too highly. Take also thecase of Austria ; why, even Austria may get alarm when men like the bon. and learned member for Sheffield whisper Poland in her ear. (Hear.) But there is another nation of whom we seem of late almost to have lost sight in this quarrel, and that is Turkey. What is the case of Turkey ? Just let ma read a despatch of Lord Stratford, in the autumn of 1852, when Lord Clarendon sent a proposal for making peace, which he thought might be settled on safe and honourable grounds, with every moral and political advan tage on the Sultan's side. He observed that : " An unnecesssary continuance of hostilities would involve the most perilous hazards, the moat exhausting maw, a vast effusion of blood, and more than possible the horrors of a general war. And how was this proposal received ? It was inremptorily rejected by the Ministers, the Council, and the :Sultan, to all of whom it was successively submitted, for they are now bent,' says Lord Stratford, upon ex ;finding every kind of note, however carefully expressed. Unfortu nately,' ho adds, the motives to forbearance are thrown into the shade by the dazzling illusions of hope, and passion is in league with occasion to merge all fears of dangers and all con siderations of prudence in a wild, though attractive speculation, difficult at least to realise, and of which the ac vomplishment would not be unattended with formidable drawbacks.' Our Government seems to have been perfectly ware of the danger, nay, the almost certain destruction for 44 ........ .. Turkey herself, involved in a war. Lord Clarendon says that ' it would entail the destruction of the Ottoman empire.' And again, Russia would bo effectually repelled, but Turkey in the meanwhile might be irretrievably ruined, and we might find it then impossible to restore her integrity, or to maintain her independence. " I saw a statement in the Times the other day showing the difference that exists in Turkey in the means of recruiting the army now and when the war first broke out. The en listment at the commencement of the war soon raised an army of 150,000 stron g . But what was the case now ? It should be recollected that there is in Turkey a standing element in society—a Russian patty. They are beginning to have their prejudices aroused. The Ottomans bgin to think that they are suffering more from the presence of the allies than from that of the Russians. They are beginning to be apprehensive as to what may be the real intntions of the allies, and if yon continue this state of things long you will strengthen that Russian party which, after peace shall be concluded, will raise its head and become more powerful than ever. (Hear, hear.) Recollect that in those provinces, which are half Russian, the greatest jealousy and hatred are directed against the occupying army, to whatever nation it may belong. They had great hatred and jealousy of Russia, which I believe was in creased by the behaviour of the Russian army while occupying the country. Austria now occupies it ; and a state of things, in whicha foreign army remains themaster of those provinces, is one which it would be prudent to put an end to as soon as possible. I have asked you to look at these matters, because I think the country should consider them. The country wishes for successes ; so do I—and I believe that successes will bring us nearer to peace, but you must not overstrain thisdesire for successes, nor so fir be led away by it as to incur the risk of reverses. I think, undoubtedly, that successfacilitates immensely the acquire ment of au honourable peace, but it must be borne in mind that there are great dangers imminent—the want of water in the Crimea, and a climate which Europeans seldom en counter without loss of health or life. Therefore I entirely concur in that part of the motion which assures her Majesty that we are willing to support her in a war whichmay end in a just and honourable peace. For the rest I care little for the words of my hon. and learned friend (Mr. Lowe), which he says are truisms, but which I say would be tru isms if true. (Hear, hear, and a laugh.) A portion of the hon. and learned gentleman's amendment implied that Prince Gortschakoff refused to entertain the question of the limitation of Russian naval power in the Black Sea, but he made a qualification which prevents that as sertion from being strictly accurate. (Hear, hear.) I, however, as a party to the limitation, though not as a sine qua non, cannot censure the Government for adoptiug that part of the amendment, and I am not now going to discuss it, nor do I mean to give a vote on it.' Thanking the house for the indulgence with which they have heard me, I beg to say, in conclusion, that all I meant to do was to defend niy right hon. friend and myself against imputa tioas which have been cast upon us, to show that we, who are thought to be the originators of the war, have a right to express an opinion as to its termination, and to explain that for the reason we thought war justifiable we now think peace justifiable, because we have met with the successes we desired. I have stated what are the dangers and diffi culties by which the future continuance of this war is be set,, and, having so done, I leave it to the house to consider them. (Hear.) Air. DRUMMOND condemned the system which both Sir 'J. Graham and Mr. Herbert had adopted, of appealing to character in debate. He also condemned the practice of quoting despatches not on the table of the house. He traced the origin of the war to a dislike of Rusdia en tertained for many years, and which had, in fact, led to the Affghan war. As to the integrity of Tur key, which was put forth as the main cause of the war, he contended that the integrity of Turkey and the protec tion of the Christians were incompatible with each other. Nor was the pretence of protecting civilisation more sin cere, for there never was such an abomination as the moral condition of the Turkish empire. But the fact was, this was a people's war, who had been roused by demagogues to hate Russia, and the Ministers had not the manliness to say we were not prepared to go to war. He condemned din speech of Mr. Cobd.en as threatening the personal vio lence of the populace against the Government, and re minded him that he had forMerly done the same to Sir R. Peal. Thefeswere two good things which would now come out of the war—first, the destruction of the Mahommedan power ; and next, that, whatever else might happen, the French would assuredly be the masters of Constantinople. Mr. Sergeant SHEE argued in favour of accepting the Russian offer as rs basis of negotiation. The hon. member was proceeding at great length, when Mr. WILKINSON, interruping the hon. member, said, amid cries of " order," he begged to move the house be counted. He had been listening for the last thirty-five minutes to the speech of the hon. and learned gentleman, and it was disgraceful to see the small number of members in the house. Mr. COBDEN—If the house is to be counted, I move that, the bell be rung before that is done. The division bell was therefore rung in the ordinary way; the sand-glass was turned up, and before it had ran down, there was a great rush of Members into the house. The doors having been closed, Mr. Fitzroy proceeded to count the house, and there being considerably more thin forty members present, the debate proceeded. Among the member: present we observed Mr. Disraeli, Mr. Walpole, Sir W. Jolliffe, Mr. Baillie, Sir H. Wil loughby, and other distinguished Conservatives;, except Lord Palmerston 'no Minister was present. Mr. Sergeant gtiEE then proceeded to inveigh against the Government for rejecting the Russian propositions without so much as a discussion. Mr. ALCOCK condemned the conduct of the war, but would support the present Government in preference to having Lord Ellenborough for a War Minister. Sir H. WILLOUGHB f thought there were elements for negotiation in the last of the propositions made by Russia, and ho expressed his preference fur Sir F. Baring's resolution instead of Mr. Lowe's amendment. Sir W. CLAY supported the Government. Lord R. C'ECJIL contended that the issue now before the house was tlie conduct of Lord John Russell in bleak ,,,, off the conferenees at Vienna without discus3ing . the Russian propositioris. He argued that the allied ultima tum was utterly useless for its purpose. Ho asked, sup posing the ALies gut the Crimea, what they intended to .to with it, as it <voe imp3ssible that either France or Eng land could hold it ; anu ho insisted that a satisfactory peace might have boon fro,:bed out of a development of Prince Gortsahakort's proposal. Mr. BRIGHT said—l feel very much in the position which I felt last year when the declaration of war was brought down to the house, and I made a speech iu oppo sition to the Government policy. I was then told that I was too late, and it has been said in the course of these debates, more than once, that these who take the view I take are too late on this occasion.. We are not now dis cussing the question of the origin of this war. If we were I should claim confirmation -in the result of the views I ventured to express in the first instance—for there seems to be a geueral feeling that the sacrifices which have already been made are greater than the results which have been ob tained. (Hear.) Now, in my observations I am not about to carry on the discussion with the hon. gentlemen below sue, who are themselves interested in a question which is by no means that before the hAse. Those honourable gentlemen are interested in some vast and gigantic scheme of supposed advantage to Europe; to be obtained only by means of long and widely ex tenued hostilities ; but, so. far as the house is concerned in discussing the qUestion with the Governmentj think those hon. gentlemen are out of court. The noble lord the Se cretary for the colonies has stated over and over again— and, amidst the confusion of statements which he and his colleagues have .made, I think ho will scarcely find fault with me if I assume what he wishes, I presume, that we should understand him to mean is—that the object of this war is simply to secure the Turkish territory from the grasp of Russia, and I suppose from the grasp of any other power— fur he apprehends that if Russia were to extend her power by the acquisition of Turkey, it would give her such' an accession of strength as to endanger the safety of the other European powers. And when he speaks in the vague—and I must call it absurd—language aboutthelibertiesof Europe and the civilisation of the world, I should say the noble lord means those great objects so far as they can Ise con served by the conservation of the Turkish territory. The noble lord tells us, and so far we are getting at length outs of some of that mystification which has hitherto cha racterised the Government—that he has no kind of sym pathy such as would lead him into war for the sake of what are called the nationalities of Europe. The noble lord turned the cold shoulder to the people of Hungary when he said that he thought no greater calamity could happen to Europe than the separation of Hungary from the Austrian empire. Then we have got rid of Hungary. The noble lord said also the other nightsthat it was a mistake to suppose that he ever intended to go to war for the resto ration of Poland; and he stated further, what must be dis heartening to those who supposed the Government would ever go to war for such a Quixotic object, that the cause of Poland was hopeless, and that it would be utter madness for England or France—not merely indiscretion, but mad ness—to take any part in promoting resistance on the part of the people of that country to their rulers. Well, having got rid of "Hungary and Poland, it requires only to assume, what no doubt will be the case, that some other member of the Government will get up-later in the evening and say that it is impossible we should enter into hostilities with a view to the regeneration of any part of Italy. The noble lord then tolls us that we are not going to war for conquest, and that should be borne in mind by those who would urge on the Government to a prolonged war. On Tuesday the noble lord said, "Be it always remembered that we aro seeking no object of our own." It seems odd to me that we should go to war for objects of somebody else's, and that when peace is concluded we shall not have acquired an ell of new territory, or secured any advantages what ever for ourselies. It is for Turkey and the general sys tem of Europe that we are struggling. In this war the whole thing always resolves itself into some general mays-• tification, and we are 'now all of us almost in the dark as to what the ultimate objects of the war are. (Hear.) As to the question of crippling and humbling Russia, I am ready to admit that when people go to war they are not expected to be nice in dealing with the enemy, nor is it to be expected that the allies will in this case be over nice in their treatment of Russia ; and if the taking of Sebastopol be humbling Russia, there can be no question that those who wish for war are justified in taking it, and of proposing any terms of peace which they think they can persuade Russia to accept. But the noble lord told us last year that he still intends to leave Russia a great empire. (Hear.) I think that wa% very considerate of the noble lord—(hear, and a laugh)—and I believe it was considered in St. Petersburg that that declaration of the noble lord did show great consideration on his part. (Hear, and laughter.) But if we aro not going Ito war for nationali ties—if we are not going to war for conquest, - and if we are not going to war for such a 'crippling of Russia as would be effected by a dismemberment of the Russiarrem pire, we come to this question : whether the conditions under which Turkey has so long existed afford means by which her future security may be guaranteed ; and in con sidering this, it must not be forgotten that that security is not absolute, but always partial and conditional. (Hear, hear.) I have here an extract from a speech made by Lord Clarendon in another place a few nights ago on the motion brought forward by Lord Grey. That noble lord then stated—" My noble friend says, and says truly, that the attainment of all this would offer no security to Tur key. The vane of a treaty must always depend upon the spirit in which it is agreed to, and the good faith with which it is entered into. No treaty can make a weak power like Turkey perfectly safe against a powerful neighbour immediately in contact with her, if that neighbour is de termined to pct oa the PlaTefifiiTO towards der." fiord "" rendon admit., therefore, what is obvious to the common sense of every one who ever heard anyth in g , ab out Russia or Turkey—except from the lips of the Prime Minister — that what we are seeking to obtain is not absolute secu rity, but such conditional security as her) circumstances, and the circumstances of her population, her government, and of her geographical position, render it po ssible .f or her friends and allies to obtain for her. The preponderance of Russia in the Black Sea, as my hon. friend the mem ber for the West Riding (Mr. Cobden) showed the other night, is a fact which all the negotiation in the world cannot get rid. of. One of the public journals this very day in commenting upon the speech of my hon. friend, admits that he is right so far as the commercial interests of Russia, are concerned, but the writer areues that there ought not to be a political preponderance also. But Ido not know where we are to find a case in which a great commercial supremacy has not been followed by a supremacy of every other kind. The question now is, how is the present pre ponderance of Russia to cease ? The noble lord the mem ber for London (Lord J. Russell) referred the other night to a proposition of the French Government, which does not appear at all distinctly upon the protocols, with re gard to making the Black Sea a neutral sea. ISt, I should say, is a proposition so monstrous in the present condition of Europe, that I am surprised that any sensible man should entertain it. Let us consider the proposition of Russia—the proposition to throw open the Straits. I am not about to say that we should have accepted that propo sition in preference to any other, though I am about to say that it is for the true iuterest of Europe that those Straits should be thrown open. But at any rate it must be ad mitted that the preponderance of Russia, in the sense in which we now understand it, would be absolutely de stroyed if these Straits were thrown (men. Russia also proposed that which would appear to be highly satisfactory —viz., that with regard to the position and duration of Anchorages, that regulatioi s should be made by the Sul tan, in order to preclude any possibility of inconvenience to his territory. If this had been carried out, then all na tions would have enjoyed the benefit, and would have re spected the privilege of the Ottoman empire. There was another , point which had not been referred to, which ap pears to be a matter of very great importance, bearing, as it did, upon a statement of the hon. baronet the member for the Tower Hamlets (Sir W. Clay). It had been pro posed that Russia and. Turkey should enter into treaty be tween themselves only, but the other plenipotentiaries did not concur in such a proposition. Now, in reference to this matter, I was astonished to hear the hon. baronet say that even if the proposition to be submitted to Turkey by Rus sia were better than ours, it was better for us not to allow such a proposition to be made direct to Turkey. I cannot but say that I consider such a view to be unstatesman like, and I might almost say politically immoral. Sir W. CLAY rose to explain, but the cries of "order" were so frequent that his observations did not reach the gallery. Mr. BRIGHT said—l understand the hon. baronet to say that he did not mean to say that which I ascribe to him. I think he will admit that lam not putting an unfair construction upon his words. With regard to the terms proposed in the conferences, I must venture to read to the house a statement made by Prince Gortsehakoff. It was as follows :—" To ask from an independent power that it should limit its force, is to assail its rights of sovereignty on its own territory. It is with a bad grace that they would sustain the rights of the Sultan, and wish to attack those of the Emperor of Russia." When the Cabinet of Lord Aberdeen agreed upon terms, the object of them was that the Black Sea straits should be throw -, open, or at least that the power of closing them should be relaxed ; and I presume that it was not until after it was found that Russia was opposed to them that it was deemed neces sary to change the terms, and to insist on them in another form. But at what cost you propose to gain all this ? You have lost I am afraid to say how many thousands of men, who a year ago were dwelling among us as citizens, interested in all the affairs of our social and political state ; and in addition to those men you have lost in the last 12 months between 30,000 and 40,000 men, and 30,00J,000/. or 40,000,0001. Let them bear in mind this solemn fact,that if they were to go from Chelsea to Blackwell, and from Highgate and'Hampstead to Norwbod, and take everyman of fighting age and put him to death, they would not sacri fice a larger number of human lives than had already been lost by the four nations engaged in the war. (Hear, hear.) He would now ask the house whether or not they were disposed to place implicit confidence in Ministers? He was sure it was the wish of many that the direction of affairs should be placed in the hands of men of greater solidity and of better judgment—(a laugh)—let him point out one or two cases which showed that Ministers were not entitled to confidence. Take what they had been doing with Austria. They declared it was of European importance thest Hun gary should remain connected with Austria, and that Austria should continue to be a great conservative power iu the midst of Europe; but; at the same time, the; had been urging Austria to enter into the ruinous war with Russia, although they knew that if Austria joined either Russia on the one hand, or the Western Powers on the other, in all human probability that great empire would no longer be a solid conservative power in the midst of Europe, but would bo stripped of her Italian provinces and her Hungarian kingdom, and deprived of every element of peace and prosperity. (Hear, hear.) He would ask the noble lord's attention for five minutes to a country called the United States of America. On Tuesday last there were listening to the debates two distinguished men who had filled the office of President of the United States —a position not less in honour and dignity than that of any crowned monarch on the surface of the globe. (Hear, hoar.) The United States was precisely the country which Was running the race with us in power and greatness, , Its oopalation at the next census would exceed that of the United Kingdom. In its manufactures and its general industry it was by far the most formidable rival that the manufacturers of this country could meet with. That country had ten steamers for our one. Her magnificent steam-ships came across the Atlantic in a shorter time than the steam-ships of this country, and the finest vessels sailing from England to the Austra lian colonies bad been built in the United States. In ship-building they were, therefore, in some respects, ex celling this country. Now let the house look at our posi tion this year as compared with that of the United States. The Chancellor of the Exchequer required 86,000,000/. to carry on the various departments of the Government and our vast military expenses. The United Stites had at this moment in her treasury enough to piy off all her debts. Taking into account all the expenses of the United States Government, and deducting that expenditure from our 36,000;000/., it will he found that we are raying 75,000,0001. more than the people of the United States. Honourable gentlemen knew what it Was to run a race weighted. He had heard of one horse that won every race up to a certain time. That horse was once weighted and lost that race, And it was stated in the annals of the turf that that horse never won a race afterwards. (Lemehter.) If that was true of a horse, it was much more true of a nation. When a nation once stepped backward it was difficult to recover its position, and if another nation had passed it in the race, it was almost impossible ever to come up with it again. They had not hitherto crippled Russia, but they bad deitroyed Turkey; they have not hitherto saved I , ',urope or its independence and civilisation, they have only succeeded in convulsing it ; and so far from having added to the renown and honour of England, they had placed that honour and renown in the greatest peril. (Hear.) The Ministry seemed to think little of taxes ; and to them might well be applied the rebuke which Necker admini stered to a lady of the court of Louis XVI., who angrily renionetrated with him for refusing to give her a sum of atonal from the public treasury, and asked him, " What can 1,000 crowns be to the king ?" "1,060 crowns," an wered the minister, " are the taxes of a whole village." (Hear.) What, ho would ask, were the increased taxes of this kingdom? They were the absence of furniture and of clothing in many cottages in Lancashire, Suffolk, and Dor setshire ; the absence, perhaps, of medical attendance on a sickly wife ; of the school pence for three or four little chil dren ; they were hopeless toil to the father of the family, pen ury throughout his life, and a cheerless old age. (Cheers.) Let the house, too, recollect that that which struck down the children of the cottager,, attacked; also, the children of -the palace. If they darkened the homes and destroyed the hopes of the population in the humblest dwellings of the country, they would also darken the pro spects of those children, the offspring of our Queen, in whom are bound up so much of the interests and so many of the hopes of the people of this . conntry. (Cheers.) The hon. gentleman proceeded—" We who sit on this bench hre willing to place ourselves alongside the noble lords who are for carrying on this war without a definite object, and apparently for an indefinite period ; we are willing to place ourselves alongside them, and take our chance of the ver dict of posterity, whether they Or we aro more deserving of the character of statesmen for the course we have taken on this question in this house. The house knows that the people are misled, and that they' are bewildered. They know, too, that if every man in this house who doubts this policy would boldly say so, it would not be in the power of the press to mislead the people, as it has done for the last twelve months. Then if the people are thus misled and bewildered, does it not become the House of Commons to speak with the voice of authority in this hour of peril ? We aro the depositaries of the power, the guardians of the interests of a great nation and of an ancient monarchy. Why should we not fairly measure our responsibility ? and disregard the small-minded ambition that struggles for place. Why should we not, by a frank, and just, and earnest policy, as I believe we may do, restore tranquillity to Europe, and prosperity to the country which is so dear to us." (Loud cheers.) Mr. F. SCOTT rose to address the house, but being un able to obtain a hearing, he moved the, adjournment of the debate. Mr. BARROW briefly opposed, the motion for adrourn ment. Lord PALMERSTON would not resist the wish of the house for the adjournment of the debate, but he hoped that if the debate was adjourned the house would seriously de termine to come to a decision on the following evening. On the, question of the adjournment being put, there were a large body of " Noes," and a division was called for; but none took place, and the debate was adjourned to this (Friday) evening. EXCISE ACTS. The r6pOrt of the resolutions agreed to in committee on Tuesday evening, was brought up and agreed to. STAMP DUTIES REPEAL (OXFORD) BILL. This bill was read a second time. Colonel DUNNE gave notice that on going into com mittee on the bill, he should 'raise the question of the pro priety of abolishing the stamp duties paid upon the taking of degrees in the University of Dublin. SAVINGS BANKS AND FRIENDLY SOCIETIES BILL. On the order for the second reading of this bill, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated that it would be necessary that it should be remodelled, and he therefore proposed that it should be read a second time and committed pro forma, in order that it might be reprinted with the necessary alterations. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY objected to this course, because there were objections to the principle of the bill. Mr. HENLEY suggested the withdrawal .of 'this, and the introduction of a new bill. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER assented to this course, and the order was discharged. The Spirits (Ireland) Act Amendment Bill went through committee pro forms, in order to its being reprinted with amendments inserted. FRIENDLY SOCIETIES BILLI This bill was read a third time. GOLD FINGER.RINGS BILL. . • This bill was read a second time, and orderad to be committed to-morrow (this day). The title of this bill created some merriment. Mr. LOCKE KING obtained leave to bring in a bill to alter the mode of amending acts of Parliament. Mr. WILSON obtained leave to bring in a bill to allow spirits of wine to be used duty free in the arts and manu factures of the United Kingdom. The remaining orders of the day were then disposed of, and the house adjourned at a quarter-past one o'clock until a quarter to four o'clock to-morrow (this day). The Courier, sailing transpo r t, sailed into Portsmouth harbour on Wednesday evening from Spithead, to dis embark the baggage belonging to deceased officers and men, which tahe brought from the Crimea, COUNTRY IiARKETS. DERBY SMITLIFIELD.—JUIE 5. The supply of fat beasts to-day was not large but the quality was generally good, and the demand brisk, with e full attendance of buyers, and most of the animals wore disposed of. Th® number of sheep and lambs was not so la th r e ge b , u b y u e t rs a . s well sold. F..t pigs again scarce. There wag a c con siderable falling off in the cumber of fat and store p a e l r ve l s ib th . e ; supply not being sufficient to meet the ` lb. T ; he pi f as ol , lowing were the quotations :—Beef, 6d to 74 1 ; mutton, 6d to 7d ; lamb, 0.1 to Od. ; veal, tiAd to rd pi t • La -S DIN per lb. OhsidOeds,t3olaOtsoo4d.rdepr esreolbre,; .rolufghk fat, O i ,tt,to4 it -- .. viauts of - • --- 1 EDINBURGH GRAIN.--JUSE 6. last clay. supply of all kinds of grain to -day was larg er i • Ill s il day. Wheat firmly maintained last W eek's Pu ce Barley on the top 3s, 'Barley Wheat on the top 1s up, and heldaverage ld downr; heavy and back, while oats and beans were better. the top Bd, and the avera , e r' 1 B on the top Y ,5 1 Oats , dc up. eans and the average 2d up. and the avera,go down. Oats? Total Supply and Sales. Wheat • 12PS qrs ............... sold 1028610 Barley 727 qrs ............. ' Ohl 606'111 .. Beans 177 qrs .............. .sold 126 qrst Top of Wheat . .4i /I) 805 0. . ... 57:1 lb 39 VI Wheat lb 39 Barley ..... 9_1.. . q .. r . s . ................ sold 509 (vs ...... .. Oats ......................... 46 , ib :37° 1 ..... 4 8ean5....,............. 63: lb ux , 0 ............ 4 BOSTON—JuNE G. ,_,,, as the We had many samples of wheat on offer ; L'u.'-uld pot farmers held out for prices which the dealers transvacted, ueelLi the e o submit to, only a limited retail business was the 3°°l rates ohan barely aein the equal yalu e to o f t s h p o r s i e n gob business. on CO ~_ 7 9 3 Od 0 Prices :—Wheat, red, 73s Od to 77s Od; vill,nebti. Oath 83s Od : extra, 85s Od. Barley, 31s Od to :3'sg Od to 0 3 25s to 325. Beans, 46s Od to 5s Od. Pe as ' '— per qr. CD of NEWARK —JUNE 6. A plentiful supply of grain, an d a goo a ti t ou dalle wa ltivg farmers. Prices same as last week. 4 $ to ov'' 0 Wheat, white 82s to 87s red 78s to 805; 34s to 375, grinding 30s to 335 ; oats, 24st• 3,,,,.. , p eas) 28s to 32s ; beans, 48s to EN ; malt, 729 tO , v'' ' t 44s ; tares, 58s to 60s per qr. barley,,,,.. vot, SEABORNE MAIL S • to rost -41 ` . 0 (N signifies that the mails are sent from the ty the night—and Mby t? 'natal•) y the morning—desp by the ni gh t—and M batca., VI 61.611ica ....., ... vino lat \ do iv Day when in a. le ,o , imp o rt W 'se& COUNTRIER.. in General Post- ~,,- F' ° • ....••••- osatc,. ..---- „,• Officc, London.' •-• _....--- ,0 .••••° .*••••••.••••••10.--..---.. ---•—•.—....-.,-....--............. ...............° 1 ••••- america(byßrit.pack)N Every Friday .• •• 3 / 4 0 71°1° I 6 AlnerioP, t by United Ens. .1 110 packet) ..........N • -01 36°11. „. •••• •• . I LI% , 1 Aritegica (bY , U. States p ra, packet) ..........N .........• SOutl'3ll' Australia (via South- to lan e 44 ampton) .....„ •• ~,Nt South°P ~ Ditto (via Marseilles) N Dover •• - 1 •sals ..... ... , . • nc e ' • Ditto (via Cape of Good ' ' JOY ° Hope) -„„„•• ,„ „N .... '' "• • °sal • ' Africa (West Coast) -I: `23d of the tract"' ..‘PIY IO 1 —., ••.••• Alexandria .......... Nj,,30 of ir. .-ra.pt,,,v, Alexandria.. ;... ....Ml4th & 20th of rnoo•lSout%,Thr-atos ii, n4hamas ••• • • ......Mll7th of the month tSontb-' • 13° •„'i, p; Belgium •,, •• •• •• •• „NlDaily. • • • •• ,„ „„ .. Dover '!,..,..v.,.,, J u '''„,, 16 Brazil ..... ........„1,19th of the month • . Sontl,'°"`,„•„,, .10-0,1918 Buenos.A,yres........Ml9th of the month.. Southall', per' vs Cape of Good Hope ..N v a rfottS Cape of Good Hope ..N ~,r o ptOr' Cape de Verds ......N 9th of the Month SOW' Ceylon (see India) Th• P‘ Ceylon ..............N ~re ton 111. Channel Isles.. •• • , • „N s,ron„wed,,&,-Erkl. Sollt"'":„Pprp, ..,., 0 4 Chi1i........ ..... ...AI 2d & 17th or mouth Seutho 1• China ..... _ it' ll Constantinople .... •. , 18,13,18,23,6z2S ot itil.Bo ve •. ..,po" ....le•P' -- Constantinople -••• • _ 4th 6c 20th of momiSontlisw '. a- , Cont. of Europe M& Zr Twice daily ..... .190v°1"•' ' ' I WO . Egypt (see India) France ........ M & N Twice daily...". Pov,°:`,;,;plollr Gibraltar •• • • „,„ .. _7,1;4, 7,17, 20, 27 o r m . 50u..., , 1 Jan e Greece (see India) ' sruP t°' Greytown ...• .. „ ..M 2nd & 17th of mon. SoUo' -RI Holland ............ MlDally.... llamburgh .. ;.......N,Tuesday & Friday Londor2_!„:;;4,•T-y Savannah .. - ......1412nd of the month Sodih-n-"....'1?:;;,, 1 Honduras ........ pever;_to , •,_..., 4 India (viaSouthampt.)Ml4th & 20th of mon.lMur .• I ~ili India (via Marseilles)M 9th& 25th of monP Dover • • •:., ~,,,,,,,„ ..........Mll7th of the month.,Soan'as ..I,l°' lonian Isles (see India)l7, 17, & 27 of mon DO ver* ,.;" , • 1 0 , 1 0 16 Irelandice daily ......100'; 11 0 , 1- ' wit), .1 Lisbon.. „„, .. „ „ ~,, . „ ,, e 7, 2, 17, & 27 o f in,,lsoutil, __„,„ t ss ~,,e lli Madeira ........ „. •• 31 1 9th of the mon •. . JR . Madeira •• • • • • - ... ..N 23,1 o; month •• • • LiV erl) Malta (see India) • Malta ..............N 8, 18, &28 of mon. Do :er '... '.. ; . nuritius (see India) 401 1 MaillitlUS •••••• .. .. N 14th of the roOntli) ,iosnter Meseco . ......... ..M 2nd of the month., Soll'__ ~•• ,i i i Naples ..............N btbifith2bthofinor.. D0v,!..',,,',,,,t0n ~.COIN New •,;ranada ......3„ 2d 8, I 7th of mo„t), soa.fl u i. s p 'r a t, v'' New Z011and.......... By private ship • • rSt3ri°T. .•.••s Papal States ........N ,ithlrith2Sthofinon. Dov,enuagto _l. Peninsula " M ithrith27thofinon.fSoo,_ _ o „tor. „„ C ov - Peru ..............M 'ld A 27th of mon.lFou%nttsa pa p v'' Port Natal ........-N By private shiP•• • VArl er • •••• 1 Sicily ...... •• ..... .N sthl,dh2sthoinon,,DoY,.., ..,.• ia se • T v u . se;y em .. en „ :s , L „ an , ~:i (see sthl.sth2sthofraon. lloyXata.ptool Venezuela .. .. . • . • „.M 2d & 17th of month.Sou'' 1 ,cd afie 1 43astralia) . .•. ~..„,tbstaPG VD oat Indies .... .. .. y i d Id*: E7ltt oi month ia. ' ~e de s pill ''. o fll -0. ~,,:i3 „,,, d r I De II aiA ti When an 3 of these dates fait on g Auridai, `co spatched on the following day , with t,ite eV , P,l l De d r isouthMtiptor;, and the Malta. both a Which l l ' preceding day. r -- - - _ HORSES FOR THE CAVALRY OF THE .1) ,,,,ber 01 i hire —Within the past week a very large E ti '" ~a te e '..bilf?' ..."...."'"." . " ...m......".". """..."--- . l, WG' . I,' have vs Baebaareiyeg:nth2ttp7ohune: cavalryc fhoars beautifule t d h t ed o a r enppi t amo h rt e pas loc C ) 4 ssfe o a v 3: e or ri i vi d n eb l .de e ti n oni t o : ge ~,,t.: : orr it et e oue i tos- o :l3o l l:ea s iie Tuesday, rourdei railway, and as they were led through th e '4lt 3t 4 °I ohxocri,teesdagreenienrtaelnaddemaitroatmioonu. nt l t t h i: ntiensvdeersototi'd at gr alri lle f the Foreign Legion, which are being orgat iise oti fec l cliffe.—Brifitton, Gazette. is fil l tojt A FORT PITT GENERAL HOSPIT.I.L.--it is . b°,`lri that her Majesty will pay another visit O il 0 to ' fl orP the supplemental one at Brorupton. as `dell o f them . air valid Barracks, St. Mary's. The .obje e ",,,,rpos e .„ - bo 1 ° visit is generally supposed to be fore h r eL well " o A/ tributing medals to several hundred ° tine well ° I.- 1 01 ' . inmates of these establishments, most 0 ';,,t,va obit 4 awaiting orders to return to their resP•i-h t ae th e Only such as are thoroughly conversaat.wal beli e° ij i and warm-heartedness of the soldier °'.' ..--A b effect of such notice upon him. nt V ACS. tit Pl t . o QUALIFICATION or JUSTICES OF T.--.i vi s eOU tiv g prepared and brought in by Mr. Cait tl ' e ,: i .ss tel 3 Vet s°l) lyn, and Mr. Ker Seymer amends the .. ' o `p. I` lO A, , b e the qualification ,of justices of the Pe'',.o-' u nie, s _7,, lig" . . shall be capable of being a justice o f per ,.o otib...• of yearlyqlkpaeui n tnn a is l l t i ise fi o o renoovd:W;a-3lopuaorlrelo:eol4spo.: property byor ot r l p y i , lC o s i h3l s 3 :e e rb s ;e s y i io n np ownr possessinggbo, an n s e, e: bs a g lyn t n: P c s bi s :: : ::: s e i f or o o t l g:: a f t : rt_ !;:i e e : r o e: 0 ° : tti° cool ofatle as t 300/ deri v ed fr e f o orn m r co raerotareii;ooneeilfatior iiwoL°o:6ocriord., ing in the aggregate 'to the clear yea ri ld tbeir 4 co o f Persons acting without having cieclBre a e a oe erg e b lions will be fined 50/ , recoverable 01 i r ecl 0 ; el i s No qualification by esiate shall he reqouf eiteore°4o, Parliament, Privy Councillors, justiee6...rnee'.4o./ or barons of the Exchequer, eldest stns v c ` otz r o ty ai ii is . 00 , sons of persons capable of being elee, te b y. fo L e bl: e g„e The following persons will be qualiaeclio",ds 01,brlif, Officers of the Board of Green Cloth, , .11,10.'010.40 Vice-Chancellors and Mayors at Oxford:, o f to„ cbei:, Judges of County Courts, Cowrnissioene : or y / to o 4 : lr , Under-Secretaries of State, and the S Il c i pro j toy e r College &c,. Attorneys, solicitors. Lf t e5,01,0t,0, especially disqualified. This act will not 0 , p a 00 1 0 e ticular jurisdictions. It is to take aria or January, 1856, and to be limited to ti c ; f joe;cievt„, op FIVE PERSONS DROWNED ON L ~.., 0 . 1 „pio 0 evening of Sunday last a most distre!e_,,7o rwitioD,io cured on Loch Long, an arm of tut°/.l:tticc!,4eooo from the Firth of Clyde. It apPat's we re O r ioo o ' bourers, named Kean and Reilly, W ho grs, Chg‘ o : t ief the quarries at Cone, i.,Nccompanied b Y t i, yirs• c hri , rio lo wife of a slater, with wilnom they lodge"of gritortiO oat, mick, the wife of a laboui'er, and a $ OO O for J O perl „ b ob' about 14 years of age, started from Cov e se„ - t ope ra „ on the other side of the loch. 13.63:.,,..;5'd tP; . / 0 . , only eight feet in length, and it .-stif:pl - ie.t o t tb ject'of the trip was to procuro a t / i Poo o r They were observed to return al)°,,u, an d to t° tae when near the n3ithile of the 10 , u li dtle", f r cia l t it ° be ° se 1- mile from the shore, the boat was seen „ t oo , 10 , i 0 size. Three boats ware immediately l o g , had c! v i o g beach, but upon the first of them ra, e o 09,: 0 ., P io s was found that the two men and t: pati"„er! 3 e ,lo o peared. The women, however, ape but tl/eelearrioito: been buoyed up' by their clothes ;, ",,, i vel . ,_,. t o ~t 1 A 0 0 4 state of insensibility, and, though tl ie ;',ed 1 " .0 . ' rir shore without delay and every tnesys ,csilallo th e k ilt tion, these, we regret to bay, virer° :acert%oolllll have thus perished, it is impossible, ~ o f M it is cumstances which caused the upsettloogetose, .if the men were tipsy, as has un seen t hat that the accident may be attributed .' --- BIRTO S• On the sth inst , the L O a F dy A rii ll3 On the 6th inst . at 18, Portman-- 10 Wells. ~ 4 . tl 3° 4 . 1 3.4 , OF A DAVGIITEg• ow, oe ifo 0 On the 4th inst ,at the Vale, Rao 6 tfr 3 lc of Dr. Henderson . - wo oer , On the 4th inst., at St. Alban.% tl' . Captain Drew, 94th Regiment. , u aeio it; MARRIP. h St re9 4l r l ol° , ni rc-. l a, . oet On the sth inot., at curs arisP V;,,,,psP of Wlliattaitereocult,P,,fl,: Ore° Rev. George Harmer, e of.jobling, ' (l' ore, 6, Rev. Kate, only daughter of Joseph 1 11 ~ ,0 tlie r , o o l. Hill, Streatham. On the 6th inst., ,_ l i a no s _., ~ ~ y of :',l-.l.lll°C°ols r tain Frederick Erskine Johnston,oo-L",,f oftru'o,hior , Right Hon. Sir Alexander Johnst ... o , ..u r a, da 0' friesshire, to Clemently°, Frnces, 1 0 P c' Admiral Henry T. B. Collier. at St. Georg' NQ;75.. 41° 1/11 1 D I P' Adviill E°4 h V 451- tt, On the 3d inst., A Edinburg , VW cli' Ilia ta pherson Ferguson. ..,, viri G A D On the 2d inst., at Stockwell, na PP dO f ,4-, o s, aged 28. On the Ist inst., lifr. John to pol , ° Ck e st' street. , in So . ..l3 3 e tro ocllog ilo y s' On the night of the sth It. t o f Wu, r , w il) ..4 4 11 received that same night iu front (giog r v uoj j, f.w William Trail Arnold, of obtain 1". y A younger son of the late Cal3llolo, ..„, i, cers, of Little Missenden Abbey, ___---- roefiv,,,, ffarivoody ° i 0:00 , _.-------------"—:- D° 1.10. L I ...........--...... .- ' bei Di 01 3166 0 11 " obits • 0 0 Lozinont : Printed and P t Sii to in 4 f the $ l6 I Strandt ilk th e F red/Lc ' o . IVA Xiddiesexa Itidlirs OW ' of No. 112, Strand, Printer, a le, ` ~ ti : ;~ ~;