The Sun. — London, England, 1815-02-24 00:00:00

rg: 1 4_1746 , ri, ]:+1! Rini, 1).3,U1.j.11!ri1,,NT. ~_ti ss-_-s~~~.a 1,01a:S, Fru. 21. TRIAL BY JURY IN SCOTLAND. the 'Order of the Avhich their Lord- Ibips weir . sunimoned, i•eim4treild, The LORD CH,ANcELLoR, rose, to more the _se--; tond reading of the Bill for extending the Trial 1:v Jury to certain Civil f',o:4se in Scotland. The "Noble and Learned Lira prefaced his motion by re short speech, in whiCh he observed, that on the juinciple or object of the Bill in question, lie did tint anticipate much difference of opinion, espe:- chilly as it vzas well known to he the general wish and desire of the people for Whom the measure vas calculpted, that the benelitS'OF the Trial by Jury should be exrended to Civil Camels in that country. The Trial by Jury in other cases had been long established in Scotland, and its benefits were felt ; and he certainly will of opinion, that any chtinge to be made in 'a system of - So .much importance as that possessed by the Bill, *mild best be done gradually, and in a manner the most desirable to those for whose benefit the change was intended. He admitted, trial. respect to the ,present Bill, there must be much discussion Upon its clauses in the Committee ; and the single ques tibn now before the House, he took to be, whe ther they should make the effort to introduce the Trial by Jury to this ttent which this Bill:pro poses to introduce it ;, and, on those grounds, he - trusted their Lordships would give a second read ing to the Bill. - 'The Earrof Moterom entertained doutts . as to the beneficial effects of the proposed measure. Ear! STANI-10PE spoke at some length upon the subject; and made a variety of observations, more or less hostile to the particular measure tinder the consideration of their Lordships.. He doubted much of the general sentiment in Scotland being in favour of such a measure as that before the House. Lord GRENYILLE cordially approved of the Bill's going to a C,ommitlee, were it only to en deavour to free it from imputed imperteetions4 The Earl of- LAUDERDALE followed, and ex pressed hiS opinion in favour of .going into Committee upon the Bill. • Viscount ..\.l.EuviLt.s was deilidedly in favour of the measure, and felt' convinced that in a very short period those who should experience thelbe- Refits of the proposed.regulation, would cone for ward and state their wishes, that a farther pro gress might be made; and he had no doubt, not- Withstanding what was said to the contrary, that the Bill might be reduced in a. Committee to an unobjectionable shape. • After wl , ielr the Billy:as read a second time, and conanittcd for Tuesday next.—Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Several Petitions were presented aainst the existing.Cqin Laws, wllieit were read and ordered to lie on the table. Mr. YfNLAY wished to know what were - the intentions of Ministers with respect to a new arrangement made hy a Bill passed Ia the last Session of Parliament, with respect to Letters fransMitted tolodia and elsewhere, by private slips. Mr. LUSHINGTON - stated, the arrangement alluded to , :as not intended to be immediately brought - before the House. Various oieinoriats Con'the subjectlad nevi received, which Were now under - consideration. Mr. TREMAYNE brotigbt in a Bill to amend the Pauper Laws, which was read a tirot, and ordered to be read a second time on Wedi!esday. - • . • The 1 - 1e1ie:,..t0q,.; Election Bill went_thia:7F,!?,;,4 second . tune, and conk-- I:flitted f.,r to-omaow; • tare notice, that on l'hnrsday the 2el of March he would river: fq leave to bring in a Mil to - attar and annual tee Acts of the Ustli and 14th of Charles 11. for the' better Relief of the Poor. He would also move on tllat day for leave to bring io a till to alter and amend the 22d of his preient Majesty, So far as related to the employment of the poor. Sir J. SHAW obtained leave to bring in a Bill to regulate the practice of Apo; becaries. • '\ - The House went in2o"ii Committee on the 52d of the King, respe !tine. EZciie Licences, the report of which was ordered to oe received to-morrow. - • - • The Bank Restriction Bill was read a second time, and committed for Monday.• SLAVE TRADE. Mr. lioaNErt, before the House . went into a Committee on - the Corn Laws, .wished to ask the Right Hou.Gvntleman opposite a question on the conduct of Government with respect to the Shiite Trade. A publication had recently appeared, un der the authority of a person, who was an 'agent of the African Society, in the Colony of - Sierra Leone,' in which he stated, that of three persons of the names of Brodie, Cooke, and Dunbar, con victed in that settlement of being concerned in car rying on the Slave Trade, and sentenced to trans portation ; tv:o of them, vii.—Cooke and Duo blr had had, or were about to have, their sen tence rt:mitted. lie wished to know, if it was the it►tention of Government to interpose between the law awl, persotrs convicted t , f so serious an offence ? In asking this question, he thought it right to state, that he put very little confidence in the statement to which he had referred, or to any other contained in the publication he had Inn: ti' 1-1, ADDINGTON said, there was rot theslia - (low of a 'foundation -for the assertiou, to whi c h the hon. and Learned Gentleman had alluded.— The - individuals in question had been confined Qu board the Hulks, where it was intended they should remain till their sentence could be carried into effect. In consequence of the representations made of the ill health of the parties, which tact Lad been established on the best authority, they had for' a time been exemptel from the severe labour which those who werethereconfined were compelled to perform.. Petitions had since been received from them . , and :Ministers had been di.s posed to attend to the prayer of them ;. but within these few days difficulties had arisen' involvin g certain legal points, which had made the Secretary for the 'Home Departiiient 'think it his duty to submit the case to the consideration of the L aw Officers of the Crown,•and no decision on it had yet taken place. Mr. tio.a.NEu was satisfied with the answer. CORN LAWS. Sir Wm. CPRTIS presented a Petition from Col chester, in,Es,ex, which as a great corn grow ing county, sigurd by upwards 01 . 50,00 persons, taaoy of whOrn were farmers and landholders, against thc proposed alteration of the Corn. Laws. Ordered to lie on the table. The then vtent into .a Ccitninittee ihe Corn LaA6. Mr. WALTER BURnELL supported tie licsolu . lw IriAliecttl 4 , 1 the • Attilt•vs .tv (mid aldt: t SCR I ilt1!" COED a cheaptn• rate hi the Pu 00e1 ty 1‘11 5 ( tieing taken oti, I.)iit to his ?s;i 11a4 lot. that tax Out (If ht"tr:, and ow.: vita of their rrolit.. that the change t:lnteitiotioed %vat: riiliy co%ettd .byilie finitilords.• h,4(1 - the honoiir et Prc se'l4ing .a Petition fron u, i ssex, only hi : lotifliMeters: The meii.; - itre subitt.tteit to the Coininittee, he insisted, mits hcectosAry for ,the proteetioo_ of - tht agrictiltore of the eolintry. , . Lord elocbftYNT stated, Oat tral one of thOse ‘vh-o very seldom addressed the House he wouhl not detain - them by going into a detz•4 4 ., upon the different topics Connected with this question, nor in following the Hon. Gentletnan who moved the amendment, throng!) that range of• :,tatement which he produced to the House in a speech, in his mind, more calculated to mislead the public understanding, than anv speech he ever heard de= livered in the .Mouse. 11 e (the No:le Lord,) had toe honour of presen . ting a Petition - to the'll ouse, signed by above. fire • hundred of the Most en lightened and' respqctable agricultttri. , •ts of the eottot.' he ha - d-, the liom;tir to- represent, and he would venture to say, no Petition more fully prov ing the I i resent ineffica c y of the‘Coro Laws ever was presented to the House.- • In the course of the few words he had to say, In; would take the liberty of adverting it: that Petitifnt, and reacti'ug one or two Resoktions - , feeling,•titat express:ng the sentiimmts of his constituents in their own expressiVe language, would hare mach greater _weight with the CoMmittee than any thing he could ()O'er himself. Ile thought it was unnl:ces sary for •.in to state to the Howie the rot anxiety and interest teat occupied the public mho{ in Ire land upon this subject, for they must he aware- of the great extent of agriculture that covers the whole face of that country, nor did he assume too much in attributing to that agriculture, those re solaces and energies which had eoahled Irelaad so materially to contribute to the present Situa tion of affairs upon the Continent, and (0 the res toration of that peace. in Europe, which pow so happily ixrvades throughout the world. Here the • NoblZ: Lord adverted to borne of the resolutions 'of the Petition from the Ch,noty of Louth, proy ilit that, in three months of. Christmas last, by the returns from London, of January 2, 1815, 258,812 quarters of foreign wheat were imported into Lon don, and only 350 of Irish ; and in the - same period, 48,611 quarter; of foreign oats were im ported into London,, and only 2770 of Irish ; and that, in the week after ending the 2d day of Ja nuary, 1815, :35,590 quarters of foreign wheat, with 24,088 quarters bt foreign oats were import ed into London, and not a grain from Ireland. — Surely, continued he, these are uncontradirtod facts, which, whether looking to the present si tuation of the empire, or to its future resources, call upon the Legislature for amendment ;- and here he could not help noticing what fell from the Hon. Member last night, who moved the amend ment, who, in the face Ofthat Assembly the face of the country, and in the face of common sense, ventured to compare the advantage of having our resources within ourselves, and deriving our sub sistenee 'from our own soil, with the precarious reliance of procuring our subsistence front a fo i-kw market which hti ,Trlta:l•pt~t-tDtsu~--- ..cac n, (owe uctoost , and produce an unpa ralleled calamity,- end such, he though; might the ca ,e - with this country,lf the House agreed to the Avislies of the Hon. Gent (Mr. Baring) ; for how could any one suppose that the British and Irish farmer, who lro( great taxes and burdens to bear, could cultivate his land, . and raise his grain at the same .prices as the foreign far mer, who has none of these drawbacks to con tend with. With regard to Ireland, the Noble Lord :thought, by what he had stated from the Resolutions be had read, that the Hottse must see the great alarm that prevailed in the agricsala tural world there on this subject. He had re ceived a letter from an eminent agiieulturkt in the county of Loath, who said sach was the dis may ronongSt them, that if the best farm in Ire-- . land was offered to hint for nothing, he being obliged to till the land. under -existing prices, he would not accept .'the boom. Surely, said the Noble Lord, this state of things, requires the ia -terference of the - Legislature. Even : tlie Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Baring) must, in hisiandid mo ment., see the injustice' that is done to the firm er ; lie must feel that the manufacturer of the soil has as good a Tight to protection as any other whatsoever. For no one could say that the time would not again return, 'when England, forced into the contest, would not want those resources within herself, of which -she would be deKived, if by mawin g the advice cif those on the oppo , site-side, you would deny to the Limier that solid and pervanent security which alone would .en able hint to preserve those resources within this Country which experience has already shewn is so necessary for the prosperity of the empire. 1 -- Te should, under all circumstances, vote for the Re solutions of the Right Hon. Gentleman ; at the same ti me h e was by no means certain that the Inaximum . ot 80s. proposed by hinr, was sufficient to give that protection to the agriculturist, for which he contended. But if' it was not found efficacious, he trusted , ahe Government would' again come forward, in that manly and praise worthy manner they had done upon this occasion, and propose to the 'noose some other arrange ment which would afford a permanent anal satis factory 'Protection to • the manufacturer of the soil.. The Noble Lord ‘concinded by trustiro , that, however the 1-Ipuse legislated on the ject, they would ever bear in their unit& how nearly connected it - was with the 'dearest inte-:. rests of Ireland: Mr. FINLAY was in favour of the Resolutions,, from a conviction they .would protect the agricul ture of the country, without operating to the in jury of the tnanufacturing interest. They ivere about to establish a system under which Corn_couhl not be 'above 80s. the quarter, though might frequently be below that price. Ile lamented the feeling which had been excited out of doors , thought it a vise tnei,sure to guard agaiust a sear city, to 'permit,,Corn to be werehoned under bout! that it might be brought forth When want e d ; did not wish a high er pr i ce . to b e 'fixed than was dcwanded by the necessity of the case, and Pl'OVeg l i of t i ne 1 4 6ileiliplakeil ing employment for a large portion of the popu lation of the country: Sit' NEWPORT ctintended, the principles of those. who were of Opinion that the agrieitledre Of the country required no protection froth the law-, were only fit for, an Utopian world.. • Without protection it was ImposSibie our Corn pi' . (itverS could enter into competition with those of other countries who were not oppressed by a similar weight Of taxatiOn. Ile set forth the bad policy of making ourselves dependent on Prance, and put it to the Committee what must hive been the situation of this country if the ogriculturists, of Ireland had not conic to her assistance, when she could not eten at N. the qiiarter obtain a supply from a foreign country. In opposition to 'the statement of his Hon. Friend (Mr. Baring), he -asserted, that in England the figriculturists did live on his estate ; while in France, oil the contrary it was proverbially commOn for the proprietor of land not to•do so. It might in fact be said. this was oitly done' by great proprietors of land,, when exiled froin Court. He had been sorry to hea ( r . his Hon. Friend say, he believed there was a ma jority in the House resolved to press this measure in its present state. This . was not the language they ought to. hold, to teach the.people to look up to the House of Commons as a _place where all measures would be dispassionately- discussed, and where justice would be done. In 'no case-• on:flit they to intlawe the preindiee4 of the peo ple, nor bend to them in the exercise of their .duty. The manufactnring interest was protected by the Legislature, awl he wished to why the landed interest cinght not also to 'be protected ? Of the populat!oh of the United Kingdom, from eight to nine millions were sup ported by agriculture. Ireland' deserved that her agriculture should be protected, as she had supplied England with Corn when it' couldimt be prochred elsewhere. In the years 1804; ii, and 6, the Corn_exported. from Ireland to . thiseountry amounted to 976,000 quarters. In the years 9, and 10, it amounted to I,800;000 quarters, be ing neatly doulde the quantity in the lapse of a single year. In 1812, 13, and 14, the export had increased to 2,170,000 quarters. He knew it Would be said that Ireland sniliciently hinditted by this exportation to Great Britain The bene fit, however, had been reciprocal. Precisely in the , proportion of the demand made by 'Great Britain upon Ireland for Corn, • had been the demand made by Ireland upon Great, Britain for Woollen Manufactures. bi th e three periods which he hail petitioned, the export of Woollens from Great Britain to Ireland front 2,100,000- to 2,300;,000, ai d lastly;. to 3.793,000 yards.— It might be supposed, that, this increase in the Irish demand for BritishmanufactureS, had arisen, 'from an increase in the gritish demand fin Irish manufactures ; but the Fact was, that during the very period to which he had shaded, the demand for Irish linens on the part of Great Britain had sensibly fallen off. Cengideritog that it was an es *sential object to the manufacturer as well as to the agriculturist, that we should be kept indepen dent of the caprice or hostility Of •any Otlyr coun try, considering that the interests or the inanutac turer, and of the agrictAtinist, wet;e inseparably connected ; considering that tine interests of Great Britain and Ireland were inseparailly connected ; - - thought that if the twitintacturer were called upon to niche sone,: sattetice: which he contended. Ise was not, he was found, as a good citizen, cheer fully to make it. Mr. FIAN.:UIN LF,WIS declared, that atter all the au eittioo. which he had been able to bestow on the subject, it appeared to hitn not only expe, client but absoiutely necessary to afford some tection to.the agriculture of the country front the impending ruin ; although he knew, that on this sic ;jeer, ha sentiments ditteted from those, of individuals for vvhose judgment he enter tained the greatest respect. i\ltteli misrepresen tation had taken place In the course of the dis ctission as to the price of Corn' in France: By authentic docinnetits, which had been laidliefore the meeting (In this subject out of doors; it ap peared that tlae.price of Wheat at Paris was, : -- )8s. the quarter; and that, altlnfugh in some 'of the provinces the price was 365. and 38s. the quarter, .yet that the average price throughout France was 465. and riot 40s. as _had been erroneously assert. ed. t lt ought to . be recollected, that the tion was made at the-old rate of exchange, of 24 hivres to the pound, and a was unfair to fowiel. such a calculation on a depreciated currency. The fact was, that the ,price of Corn was..not always regulated by foreign importation. Recently there had been a greater tall than the .importaticra. which had really taken place would-warraut,spar ticularly in barley, the importation of wlticb had. been very much diminished within the last year.-, He conceived the real state of the countryol\;ring the war, hail been the real cause of the present depression: After the long closure of the Con tinent, farriers were now • at once. exposed to the competition of all 'Eurpean markets, ood the suddenness of that change, was the reasort . that.. rendered the protection... of the Legisla ture necessary. Fie did .not wish for an -ex travagant protection to be given, so as to cause great profits to be Made, and the price of Bread to be raised, but merely for what would preterit . the ruin of agriculture. Almost all: the witnesses examined by the Committee had stated,that they 'considered 80 shillings a fair protection price, un-: der the particular circumstances of .the times ; but as those circumstances had changed, as im posts had been decreased, awl the Pmperty-Tax removed, he thought that a lower sum would now be sufficient. The price that would prevent:im portation was not that which woold.go into- the farmer's pockets. Considering : ; the cxncacc 'of shipping, &c. incurred by farmers. in the North to send their Corn to market, he thought the Non- Importation price should he a little higher than What they were to have a*, , the intrinsic value of th e ir grain. 'He:objected to the manner in which the general' average of the price of Ciro was teketi. The country was divided into twelve ma ritime disittkii, and the general aVerage•waSlnade: from comparing their particular a venlge. tie had hinisc!l - seen the return of one district, stating jpo ,yorters to. have been sold f o r a strut speci fied, and yet that small quantity had influenced a twelfth part of the general average in the same t.40/initiiiii as '4666 qiiarieis . 66iii als„ triet. l..rc thtinght it ‘vas unfair that the riverage e•-f small should thus influence the tvl"'l i c. This mode of taking the aver Age would' - be ne arl y equal ti. a duty of 3 or 4s. - lie shoidd,.theretore, prefer making the protection price, in t.ffder to ohtain the object which all Most desire, ta ther t 7Gs: than SJs. The necessity (A...a protection isa c chiefly grown out of the alteration in our Cu" rency - ; as a new. alteration in that quarter ‘ 1.3 : to take pla-ce at no very distant' rriod, it, migl' t produce M new revulsion, and at the end of 0" years, perhaps, it . woUld become necessary to alt er the provisions noW propozed, and the No use would be bound to make that relative alteration in the law, and lower the non-importatiOu prir ( ; which it was now requisite should. be raised.. then took a view of the improved state of the Corll Laws, from the middle:of the reigu•of Chetrles ~ to the present time. It, was then-p•ohibid " purchase Corn to sell but now expoi'ts v;.2re completely free. Lord Pitoßy supported the Resolutions on. .113' ground . .that they were in favour of the agrict' l7 *- rural interest, which affected every class of 30P ciety. Unli►nited importation Would be the ruili , - ot . agricniture. . . a . Air. CALCRAFT disputed 80411 C. Of the toni c s' which his HOD. Friend (Mi. Raring) lied intro (kited. He did not understand that itnint7WS tri; !ite that was said to b; paid to the agrictilto"!, interest, as he dot not conceive himself indebt" to any class of his Majesty's SittijeClS for what he received 111 , eXchange for the produce of his bouts. lie ;ilso contended Ilia: country geritlemttn lives" at least one . half of the year on their bands an d in the middle of their . tenants. He would not . admit that the subject was eittirely tinconnectea with rents. Rent. w;ts- undoubtedly a componeut part of the produce on %I-hie!' coneark; g entler:le:l . • lived For a farm of 420 acres in Scodaud W: 4O . in evidence that the tenliit paid a'rent of 2,50q a-year,.; that•itS produce was estimated at 5 - ,o 4 J° ( :' oue-lia4f of which. consequently went to the haat.' holder. Would•any one deny, that rent in case did not affect the price of corn ? ' .Anatlier Gentleman was surprised that the small quantitf of Frent.:ll Corn imported during the year, eoola have such an. effect on the price of grain,. • but • ' the. epality e.f the French Corn was so uiu sty perior •to (Mrs, that in his neighbourhood would not buy the latter unless they could, get for almost nothing. He had asked farmers them selves what they would have gut for their whe.wg if there , had ,heen no importation lima France,- and, they hardly kitetr ; but they acknowled4c' l that, 'Ott account o the. state of the harves4 v _ - this year, it had proved a most salutary' supplY., Hethoii;ht thr. neither the Legislature, nor t 13 4. Government of any cotuntry, should be permitted to ioterfele in stypor: - of any branch f tradt:i except on the principle that. their ioter!'teued -would be for - the benefit- of the eointnna.;" t, large. He had received the thanks of a2l hi* ileighbonrs, - krnic:-s, as well as: oth'4;•! . , for 6 1 ° • part •wilia I.c heal taken in opposiog a measure last year... The present, however, 1% , ' 3 ,better timed, as the" distresses of. farmers cult;':: vating only arable lands, were • really .g, r‘.:at. bad also heeo discussed •with more- temper candour but ..the information•or ryas in po s session Was not yet' a new ()icier. or tniogs : peach was 1 , " 6 lust arrived, and scarcely com:pletely establishel hut above all, the ,larmers were -,ecared•agaius;• • if! , p(irt:itinn for three months to cotne, be shor:•••4, have preterr.:d seeing the. operation. of pearl', deCreaSed taxation, and the- reoio cal of th e Fro'',-' perty. Tax, not as it affected farmers in one p(Airt• only, bat thr.ough every article in which it IntL , -;! be felt before going into the question. • A delay of • six or seven weeks to, ascertain Atte effect -of di these . altcrations- on the price of• torn, wooil have been highly beneficial before taking the st . e? • which had been proposed to-night. • Etc was 6 0 : • far from wishing to inflame the public, howevef , or. throw obstacles in the way of the discussion , that he would •-take it at; it was. He had thot4 l4 'at first that .a.teniporaryineasnrefrouid , b e the best ; ht.t•on further consideration, he.• had con- • sidered that it Was a matter of perfect- inch:lt-Fence that it should be made permanent. From his e% .perienee of the House, he was well aware thst • this permanent measure would no sooner be fotinsi to-produce great public inconvenience, thin would become temporary, for the rinse would hasten to put an end to its operation.. On geound, he did not think lie should vote for the amendment. As to the protection price, provid4.: 4 the farmer should be supported, the lowr it• should he, could only he matter of satisfaction . to • the country.. -Farmers admitted that they had . --• good times; lie.was.glad of it : but 111 the Hoit• •- recollect . that those were times of the gi - eatt...st int.? portation. He, did. not mean to assert that iott; portation produced their prosperity, bat t& sflow that it had not prevented it. Tbe p eovu . sed. 80s. would - be an immense. rise from 655,. t ‘,7iatiiirt be nearly equal -to 30 per cent, and that too much when the qualityof the C9rn, was such pis he had described. TO give that ease and sect/rill which were so ardently called for,:the subsistence of the people ought not to be raised above the price. of labour ; otherwise. we must again 11:43 3 recourse to the expedient of p a yi ng h a lf the ['rico of labour cut of the Poor Rates. He was told no. else could he done ? Were wages to ho raised to. twenty or thirty shillings a w eek to SUP' port the family of the--tabourer ? It er=as a•,settc3 l .chatWhekt would not rise t o th e f u ll li m i ts o f tno importation price. He : had, no doubt but .thii year it would. It should not be forgotten nl,:iCt4 that to have the average at 80 shillings pr (inktr' N.'r, the beSt Wheat must rise to , :100 least. Would it be fair . that: the publ:c should pay 100 shillings, in trrder to give the. • farmers - prOtectitig price ? The eV - Mei-ice was ail es- part° ' evidence.' They wished to tuake a case, and chIC • bad made it.. Farmers were a C;liiet, prtidOnt of people. , Th e y .k new h ow to ma k e . good bar: . . gains and to get good bills; but they were 77(4 wrong in that—,it was their trade, and they had 4 , right to do what would insure chew the .greatest profits. Efe thought hoiwever, really coo inuch, He apologised for not mentiooiri4 Ireland, by stating, that whenever the inteteo, o.f country were mentioned, th ose o f frelauq - were included. He was aware' of her distressc - ii but wa§ the Don,importation price to be as high fV);.