The Sun. — London, England, 1820-06-02 00:00:00

lite place for money, he shonld as it the Noble reel (C,Astlereaoo to allow him to accept the Chiltern Hundreds, and send him to the Cont mittees up stairs, where he would undertake to mate, in a very short time, that which would ptirchase a moiety of the fee simple of the situa tion of a Welsh Judge. Mr. Ceeevev said. his Hon. and Learned Friend (Warree), had furnished the best proof that the Welsh Judges were appointed for political pur poses; for they hail never been of the same poli tical principles, for he hal long, until lately, gone tither titan ever he l a vigh.) Lor;i J. ReSSFLL said, he bad seen iu a Paper eevoted to Motivoels, a speech at tribnted to him, which he never delivered ; stating, that he !tad said the Welsh Jhdges were always ready to suitor! the unconstitutional measves of Alinisteitt. • He had said that a Welsh Judge ship was made the stepping•stone to the Office of At toroey and Solicitor General ; and all that he had seen in his time, warranted him itt saying so. He Loped the I lon. Gentleman hail taken the office of Chief Justice of Chester for an accession of character, and he believed he had ; and if he felt now more comfortably, or could hold his head higher in society than ever before, he wished him joy Of it with all his heart. Mr. W. Wv NN regretted these personalities on built sides. As to the Committee of 1817 on this su i v i ee t, if was so thinly attended, that the ques tion was never entirely discussed. Still he felt considerable difficnity cvj b respect to the present . motion ; and arty change in the Welsh Judicature must be made with reference to the question of expediting tie judicial business of the whole na tion. some relief might be afforded by prevent• log the Welsh Judges front acting as Barristers. iod,r all the e , rentitstances, he could wish that the Committee of 1817 should be revived. Colonel \VOOO was a Member of the Committee in 1817, at which time the Chairman (Mr. Pon. souby) ri as mach prejudiced against the Welsh Jo -dicature ; but before the Committee had finished its kbours, ins opinion was changed, and be thought live \Velsh Judges could nor be done away. Mt . Owen was 'ale only evidence on that Committee who proposed - to get rid of the kVelsh Judic•oure altogether. If this was done, a very heavy expense would fall on the Welsh counties gar oe w Courts. Mr. Jones brought in a Bill to 3,entedy all the evils which had been mentioned in the Helton Of 18:7 ; hot the House was proro• t ried befute the .1;111 was perfected. No Welsh vyirnesses would answer in English ; they were, therefore, not 'yet ripe for ail assimilation to the Ettf4lish mode of Judicature ; anti he was sure sildt ail alteration would produce great discontent lu '..Vales. WeoTTesenY said, that every opportunity given in the Cominit tee of 1817 for hearing evidence on ail sides on this subject. The im pression on 163 nand was, that Mr. Ponsonhy thought it would be improper to abolish the Welsh Jedicature altogethe'r: Mr. CHETwNND expressed his surprise, that a lyelsh Judge should rise in that House, and de t the mode of his own appointment. The Scotch Barons were not allowed to sit in the House , and why street(' - the Wel.h Jud ge s 1 it appeared extremely wrong that a person should sit as a Legislator, and also as a Judge. Mr. ALLEN contended that the cheapness and celerity of the administration of justice in Wales were counterbalanced by the inconvenience tois log from the facilities given to litigation. Be sides, it was a very unfair way to estimate the excellence of jurisprudence by the cheapness with , which it was obtaitted. He therefore claimed for i his countrymen a participation in toe jerispru &lice of England. They could never have a fair administration of Justice with inferior Judges, Barristers, and Attornies. The best way would be to take the Southern Counties of the Oxford Circuit, and connect them with South \Veles ; and the Northern Counties of it with North Wales. In this way they would be able to secure a more respectable Bar than at present. The cheapness and the number of Attornies were the great causes of liti;.ettion in ‘Vales. He there foie supported the motion. He believed that Mi nisters were perfectly ready to give up the pa tronage of the Welsh Jedge-ships, it it should be found necessary for the due administration of justice. Lord CASTLEREAGH said, the Hon. Gentleman had done his Majesty's Ministers DO more than justice. He had entered the House with an 3pi uion that the Report of 1817 was perfectly satis fac ury ; but he had since learned that, owing to the (leech of the Right Hon. Chairman of that Commit:ee (Mt. Ponsonhy) that Report was not BO deliberately considered as might have been wished. It might he desirable to revive that Com mittee ; but the Hon. Mil - libel's motion went too far, as it almost called upon the Home to pro nounce at once the extinction of the Welsh Judi cature; a measure- directly hostile to the Report of the former Committee, and the whole holy of the evidence on which it was founded. He felt a desire to inquire into this subject still farther ; but without prejudice to the existing Judicature of that cosier; y. He was therefore convinced that the Hon. Mover would not wish to adhere to the express words of his motion. The Committee, if revived, might go into a more extensive inquiry than the last ; amid he mild wish that the report of that Committee should be - referred to the new one. He thew moved an emendment, that a Committee be appuinted simply to inquire into the present state of Judicature Wales. He protested against that mode of ergement, that men were less trust worthy because they had otficcs conferred on them, which they mould be enabled to distinguish them in their prof:tssionalchatacter. He defend ed Mr. \Verse.t from the imprudence and inacen rary of the statements made against him, for hav ing changed from one side to the other or . that Wiese. - He always liked to see men look at pass ing events —(Hear, hear t.)—No man had been held in hietier estimation than his Honourable and l e eerned kriend. ;l1 r. BA DP AM did not triSli to prolong the debate; b , ) , he w,,s bound to declare that he hail a different onieion as to the PCntltttenta entertained by Mr. esoshy, with respect to the tentedy to be ap r4e Welsh Judicature. One day he asked :sotery what he thought he'd best be done L • , eirittlee. His reply was ittuarkable— " tTpon my word Illon't know; there are dirri enities both ways ; but 1 think the best thing you can do will be to get into the great boat," mean ing, that they should assimilate the jurisprudence of both countries. The opinion of Mr. P. was, that the appoiwrnents of the Welch Judges were noto• rioutly corrupt. He stated the case of an Attorney, who asked a ‘Velsh Judge once how he could give an opinion 'as a Judge contrary to' that lie had given as a Counsel, and take the King's money, and the pat ties' too ? This clearly showed that the opinion of the Welsh Judges might be obtained on cases which they might have after‘vards to de cide. He agreed'in the amendment of the Noble Lord. Colonel WooD and Mr. W. WY NN explained, as did Lord CASTLEREAGH. . Mr. B. BATntinsT defended the Welsh Judges., A sorpo,ititions case might be p u t to a man on which he might afterward be called to judge. The Welsh Judge alluded to was one of the most . honourable and learned men in the Court of Chan cery in kis thy. The CHANCELLOR Of the EXCHEQUER said, that from early recollections he could say, that unless the Welsh Bench and Bar were much changed within the last - 20 years, they were both entitled to the highest respect. He had himself practised there under,Lord Redesdale, Lora Manners, and Sir W. Grant. Mr. W• PARNELL WAS sorry to have beard any slur cast on his friend the Chief Justice of Cites .ter, who could r.ot be actuated by any base mo tive, but only by a justifiable love of power — (a latiti)—ot doing good to his corn ry. \lr. R. MARTIN said, the Hon. and Le3rned Judge of Chester had never belied an opinion he had given on the other side,ot the House, for he believed he never sat on that side. A- to a ellnlige, l Of opinion, he would ask the Learned Q , lten ' s Solicitor General, if peradventure he should be elevated to the Bench, he would like to have his opinions given in that House brought against hitt) on the Bench. Mr. DartmAn said, he had no fear that any c•pinion he had ever delivered could he bro.ight in judgment against him, in whatever situation - he might alti , rwiaids be placed. Mr. CANinstiLL replied. lie denied that lie had accused all the IVtisit Judpes of being con Opt or ignorant. He than whhdreN the- original mo tion, and acceded to the Amendment of Lord Cas tlereagh. The Amendment was then agreed to without a division, and a Select Committee appointed ac cordingly. LABOURERS' WAGES. Mr. LYTTLETON rose to move for leave to bring in a Bill for the payintint of Labourers' Wages in Money. He should propose to take a'vay. the appeal to. the Quarter Sessions, as a' poor man would have occasion to travel many miles with his witnesses. But some good must be sacrificed, as some individuals supplied their workmen,. wlft goods at a lOwer tate than the market price. Lie then moved that leave be given to bring in a Bill to secure to Workmen more effectually the. Pay ment of their CVtges. Sir .1. MACKIN'T'OSH thought that all restrictions should be taken oil from payment of labourers. He should oppose the motion. Mr. F. ROBINSON said, though he sbonld not oppose the Bill, he-would not pledge himself to its support. Mr. WROTTESLEY took the same side, Col. WOOD hoped the measure would not I! hurried. Mr. HUME stated that the present law was evaded, and would hate been better pleasi - dthatt the exisi mg Act been re pealed ; and that master and labourer sluaild be put on the same footing. Mr. BARING said, that the remedy consisted in the repeal of the existing Laws, and not in their enforetment. He wished a Committee had been moved, for perfect freedom should be left both to master and servant.• Mr. uTTLEToN replied aunt said, the laws in force were meant for the protection of the- honest workinati. In the Nail Trade in Staffordshirt and Worcestershire, some masters did not pay in money, hut in a depreciated rate of goods. Should the House be adverse to the Bill he had nu objection to a Committee. Mr. W. thought that a Committee would answer the purpose of the Mover better than a 13111,—Leave was then given to bring in the Bill. BANK BALANCES. Mr. GRENFELL should defer his observations on the subject to a future 6pportbuity , on account of the business about to come before the House. He then moved for a variety of accounts betwixt she Bank and the Government, similar to those moved for on former occasions, which were or- dered. LINEN TRADE. Mr. MABRIILY rose, pursuant to notice, to Move the appointment at a Committee for to morrow, to take into • consideration the Acts of the 29th of George H. and the 54t1i George 111. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved the previous question, as the whole subject of frade would soon be brought before the House. Mr. MABERLY thought the course adopted most ex traordinary, as, by an a!rangement with the President of the Board of Trade, he had umierstood no opposition would be made to the motion. He should state, that his object •t is to give employmeut to the people of Scotland, and should desire that the Gth article of the Union be read. Mr. ROBINSON stated, that he had promised not to oppose the motion, and could not objvct to place the exportation of British and Irish linens on the same footing. But it did not, follow that the Chancellor of the Excite:ll.Kr might not hesi tate as to the, propriet v of assenting to it. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had not been aware of the understanding alluded to ; and, with the leave of the House, would withdraw the previous question. Mr. MABERLY was about to enter rip:ut the subject, when the Speaker interposed, and observed, that any discussion would then be premature, as the Committee was fixed for to morrow (this day.) Mr. MAItEItLY then said, he should move that it-be an in struction to the Committee, to take into consideration the charging a Duty on the Importation of Foreign Linen Yarn. This gave rise to a conversation of some length, relative to the point of order. But the SPEAKER having expressed his opinion that the motion would be against the forms if the House, as the Committee, which was to he so iostt ucted, had not yet bean appointed, the motion was withdrawn. ALIEN ACT. Lord CASTLEREAGII rose 10 move the continu ance of this Act for the same time as before. Though but few individuals had been sent out of the country, it did not follow, on that account, that the Act veal unnecessary. The tintil b cr of foreigners in the country was 25,000, and but few of them were here for conunercial purposes. Many of thentmight have come with intentions. dangerous to the peace of the country. Many. had said that such an Act u as only necessary in time of war, but that had not been the opinion of Par liament, as the Bill had been thrice - enacted in time of peace. But the nature of the law was changed in tithe- of peace ; as, upon giv ing in his \ name et - the port where he landed, a tureigner was allowed to reside in. what part of die-country he pleased; and if the measure WAS wise in 1818, it was no less so at the present time ; for though there was no foreign war, the internal state of the country, and the recent machinations, called for the renewal of the Act. It. Foreigners never meddled in doniestic dissentions, then such an Act might be unnecessary ; but there Was a spirit of fanaticism on the. Continent, that might ()penile against . our domestic peace, by combination wilt the disaffected at home. The sovereign power of a State must al ways have the power to sent , Foreigners out of the country, whose pi eseoce might be dangerous to the public peace. The highest legal authorities had stated, that such a power resided in the Crown : but the mode of using that power was too slow to be applicable to the present time. The object of the Bitt was not to vest a new • power in the Crown, but to enable it to exert more effectually an inherent power. Government had no wish to ask for the power, but front the neceseiry of the case ; and no instance had occurred of the power having been abused. He moved for leave to bring ie a Bill to continue the Act of the 56 , 11 of the late King, respecting Aliens. Sir 1.1.. WiesoN was sensible it was unusual to oppose the introduction 01 a Bill, hut was called upon by consideratioes of public ihi'y. Fo reigners would think that this Bill had emanated from the Congress Vienna, with a view to este blush an unitorm system of Police throeghont Europe. Lord Coke had said, that th e p o w er of preventing .the introduction of tot eigners retitled in the Great Council of the Naiion.— France is now passing laws to naturalize rriguets ; and the power - of sending them out, of the country does !tot reside t the Kete.—j A Lady It not abroad ',ad been ordered t o this country for her health. end when she tame iu Grav, send, was sent on board an old tender, an d Mr. Capper %vas tent to lie Lady, who was II) , Cotiille! , s hohni, and she was Setif by list Fivieg Ft,,h to Osee4td, where site wa s eceiv e d with the toot marked iespect. An Offic , r of rank came to this ( e'en!. Fl oat Smyrna, and had leave trom the Nobl. Lord to reside iii this coun try, and (nen event to France, where lie obraiu , the teltea! of ente-ce of death. What w 0 1,1,1 have here the situation of this indivithial, had the law been t , tictiy eefereed ? •It a Feneigner oteitted to pi esent his passport within a w e k, he_ was liable to a year's imprisonment ; and the case was the same as to children and telltales. Nolte were now allowed to go into the interior of the Niehetlends without a passport from the Noble Leitd, which cost 21. ; and when the Ambassador, of the Net betlande had been expostulated with on the subject, lie sated that it was the conse quence of our Alien Laws. England was no loeger the reluge of the distressed. He should takethe'eense of the House on the Bill, as an Anti -European measure.—(Heat !) The lion. Mr. WARD said, in 1715, and in 1745, Aliens had been , protected, notwithstanding the then critical state of affairs. This power might not .have been abused, but that did not jitstify the continuance cf it. The Alien Bill was mentioned abroad with astonishment. The law was contrary to the spirit of the Constitu tion, and might lead to retaliation on the part of Foreign Powers• The present year was most favourable for the repeal of the Act, and he should. vote accordinely. 'the SoLICITOR-GENBRAL observed, that the statements of the gallant General (Wilson) had formerly been refitted, and no inquiry into them had then been called for.—Queries had been put by the gallant General to an inhabitant of Har wich, respecting the case of Gen. Gourgaud; but the answer to these queries bad never been sub mitted to the House. In the case of M. Mon tholon, the utmost lenity had been shown, and, that would appear if the case should be brought ; before the House. For 200 years this power had' been exercised ; in the reign of Elizabeth, end' in that of William, in times of profound pea Ce. The clause in Magna Charts referred Wholly ao alien merchants. All_ the attekters,on the Law of Nations had stated such.a - poiver to be inherent in the State, and in this 'Country'. such ae.epower . must be vested in the Executive Government.—At was said this measure would injure our character with Foreigners, and that it ought not- to - exist whilst we have 25,000 foreigners in this country. This circumstance was, in his opinion, a proof that our character was not injured by this Bill, since two-thirds, at least, of this number had come into the country under•the rovisions of this particular measure, and 'without any fears of Only nine individuals bad been sent out of the country in the last year, and he would venture to say, that. at no period of our history had - , Fo• reignees been treated with more humanity than since the Alien Bill was passed. • Si' J. MACKINTOSH considered this measure as one of'fbe most odious deviations from our ancient Constitution of tiny which disgraced recent times. This was a measure calculated to reduce to slavery 25,000 persons resident in this country. His Hon. and Learned Friend bad said, that the power of sending foreigners out of the kingdom existed in the Crown ; and had appealed to him for a confirmation. Who ever doubted that the Crown possessed that power, and even the power of banishing its own subjects Is But though the Crown had the power to send Aliens out of this country, had the Crown the power of sending Aliens to their own country, into the very jaws of their. enemies, against whose tyranny they had sought refuge in this country Formerly, namely, in the time of the Tudors, it was held that Foreigners, continning in the coun try forty days after the King's Vroclamation commanding their departure, shall be liable to punish:new, by fine and imprisonment ; but the Noble Lord claimed a power to send hireigners away instanter : he was more jealous of Aliens than Henry VII. the very Tiberius of modern Sovereigns. He agreed with his Hon. and Learn ed Friend, that the humanity to strangers had never been greater at arty period than since the Tassing the Alien Act. The fact was, that the I ie. V.. 7. principles-of the Government had not yet tainted the old fashioned humanity of the people. He never gave a vote with greater plea sure than he should do that to night, in opposition to the Bill: . _ _ LoitßTos defended himself end friends for the part they took in the case of Gen. Gout-gaud. .Ile hart desired a Committee of Inquiry on,that uccuoivn, but the Noble Lord was against it ; and , le, • . _ be was well aware it would have been vain to et• tempt getting a Committee against the declkreu of the Noble Lord. He now decidedlt opposed the renewal of the Alien Bill. Lord CAsTLEREAGH replied, and distinctly de ° ' hied that this Governmen► had ever been iutluene • en in its conduct on the subject of Aliens by FO' reign Governments. Indeed, Foreign Po►v'er!' had on many occasions had room to Coasplain this Government for refusing to attend to repre , * sensations made to them. The House then divided— For the Motion Against it ... 63 Majority On our re-aduniseinn we found Lord CASTLg m REAGH proposing to bring in a Bid to colon'''. the Act which prevented Ahem obtaining 1" 11a tilraliZation by purchasing '&11. Stock in the Scotch Funds. Sir J. MACKII4TOSEI expressed his entire cote currence in the provisions of the Bill. Leave was then given to.britg in the Bill. The other Orders were then disposed ot,atqllic a - quarter before 'lwo the lloute adjourned. On Wednesday, after the gallery was cleared for a division, Mr. TIERNEY spoke in favour of 3 1 " Rohinsou's motion. As no part of what th• Right Hon. aentleman said appeared in any of the Morning Papers- yesterday, we lay before out Reimers the following outline of it : " Mr. lieeNEY stated, that as be intended 10 vote for the proposifioh of the Right ki,00nr.... able Gentkman, and as his Learned Friend had imputed to that Rlght .flononrablebeittle• man an attempt to play off a trick on :be H o use, h e was ao ei o as to exculpate himself Rain being party to any !rick, or flow v c r i ng f o r t h e pt 0 IhP' sit ton on any s,.en grounds. 1!e could not tPit consider the dgbate of to-nigh! 1a ;it.i“itilliitt os) ;hat of the night beture, and that the prfposia lion now made bad oily not been maoe !De preetling evening, bee ,use the di-bAre brtrl b , e o prolonged to too late an num.. He 111,teej •nn.• dersiood the question of adj,:otiouent H 4 ►t OP. ed emir, ly with a v,etv ot gictug ant op. , pi•rtu-ity for the introduction of flat!. pot•nion, which the tornis of the Hoi. a e tts 4 thrn eNultuivti how. discussion. He was ready to adpiit that if this proposition had been deterred until after the Committee had sat s•une tinter' it would he open to • the objec , ions which had been made to it by his Learocil Friend ; but having been brought lotActrd part of the preceding debate, as the condition under wl;ic“ toe Committee had been acceded to, he. saw norlrit l in the course now pursued that was cot with the usual anti fair Pailiameoldiy lice. With respect to the interests o f the cult:lllsta, he could only say, that he had n eve/. heard of that degree of distress %vhieb 1,441 beet= pleaded in their behalt—that be had not heard of rents unpaid, or executions, or other symptotne distress in an aggravated degree, nor did 11 0 ' believe them to exist. His great motive, iio.4' ever, for supporting the Right Honour..ible Gentleman's proposition was, thai the eejectio° of it would not bent fit the lower elasties of 14 6 Agriculturists. It could not affect - the tabourer oft ploughman, though it might operate, lie did rot deny, to the benefit of the It:oath's-a and 000 0 farmers; while on the other hand, :tie kelease 4A the-price of bread would at once affect all file otitel classes of the community, and lead to distres4o dissaiisfaction, and tumult, even beyond what 111° Hovse had found to exist in other times wile* such subjects had been in agitation." The 71st regiment, use understand, is expectel, , to arrive at Hull in a week or tea days, to re! place the 88th, which has received orders to boo itself in ►eadiness for marching. Mr. and Mrs. BARTLEY are expected in Eng ' land in the course Of the present month, frna their theatrical tour in the United Suites of Attie' rica, which has not fully answered their expe4' tations. The method of burning the smoke of stes o engines has now been happily discovered by Mr*= Davies, of Dunkinfield, praCtite9 Those who have falling doors to their furnaces urof do it bout anyexpeoce or liberation. The p e rs o4 attending the engine should, before supplying lb° engine with coal, push the fire tar l, then 1 4', the coals on the place from ,whence the tire we"' pushed, and immediately close the door tis about aninch.and a half of the bottom.; sit ilisling.through the part left open has theeffe el . Of taming the smoke completely. A little stito o will rise while the coals are lying on, but 0 4. 'moment the door is put down, and lett as 60°1 stated, very little smoke can be sects; the (I°' may be closeffin about a nriatv,e, 7 --This plan, l; nerally adopted, will relievelarge towns,' as ' as the country,. from a most intolerable gutivanc o and will be a great saving of fUtl. Yesterday evening, about seven o'clock, a 6 . 11(5 '' _boy, about 12 years of age, the son of Air. lima, tailor, of Southampton-Place, who playing on .the craft off Capper's Wharf/ !4, attempting to pass along a rope from 1.711.; barge to another, fell into the water antl,SPiti The river was dragged, and every means tesorce r to, to raise libn, for three quarters of _an 110.0: till at length the body was taken up in ,a net b a waterman, and it was carried to the Fox-under the-bill, near the Adelphi, where a medical GI tleman attended, but too late to be of any serili c This morning, at four o'clock, a fire broke out in the 10? 9 ,1' 'of Air. Junes, Great Shire-tone, Temple-biir, the interio r which was completely destroyed.- • •• • BIRTH. hte6 Yesterday, Mrs. Spry, of Cbarterbouse.square;ofa.datig being her lath child. NI ARRIF,D. 'bil O a - On the 24th tilL, lklr. William PhiHipps, of Sa:ti,.7l',.o< street, Strand, to Lydia Isabella, youngest daughtero . • Hoftuan, of New Bridge-strect, Blaehflifs :... DIED. . .10 On Wednesday, Catherine, youngest daughte;-of C.P.triet-9 Alexander Craig, Esq., of Great George-street, Westtut" mr- On the 31st of May; at his house, Wall:am - V . " lj ' John Stocker, aged V.. ----------, j Gtor, - . LONDON: , Printed by J . 11. CARSTAIRS, of No- 9 --" s c, P r ; Ormond-stree.t., Queen-square; and • pablisbed by .: sc solupPs; . a No. -;, South Nfolton-street, a t' 15 ; 0 0 Ottice, No. 112, Strand ; where Advchtisentert l!, Lett at, &c. (post-paifl must be add:much ~~~f toti I *,To IA-r ut , Tit 'Nit Ei 14e . S I • t 1 1,14 1t the 'lll,f D ua tlt ) :' t ., lei ' F t pet n t " lr T Torn: PtiWA -d;ty u, -‘oy 111 4 ', • 40 1;6 ! L -4 k e 1 1'1„ ("1,,;(1 •t ever b er ti,iv . . 'the , re ad t tti ro mo b , b oot, e p, vi o bi hed, it e i a of ti '1 e f) b ark the lerv e t/ f t f 4 0,1 w Pay . meth .tir,„ 11, 11( " ; Fo ie , l' mt t),t