The Sun. — London, England, 1815-02-28 00:00:00

I)IPERIAL PARLIANiLN tietst . or Lon Ds, ... , :oNt',..cr, FEn. 2';'. The Appeals Bayne v. Walker, and IVilhie , Ciethies, Were heard, and judgment poste; nevi. In the 'title carpe, ~tte«.irt v. her, the illligT!ltAlt of the Court licTow was reem,ed. The IndeninlN Billy and Civil List Accounts gill, were . i read a second utle. 'HOUSE OF COMMONS . _ 'Petitions frorn *Caine, Sheffield, and several other places, Were presented ag-3ilist the Curti Bill. A Bill fur enlarging the Charter of the Apotbescarie:s' Coin- Ivy: was read a first time. The Bill tur farther securing the Liberty of the Subject *Ont through the Committee. To he further considered on She of April. _ _ The Holston Election Bill was read the third time, and ,pas4cd. The Gaol Peer; Abolition Bill was, after a conversation, in 'Which Mr. Belinctt, Mr. Alderman Atkins, Sir J. Shaw, and Il►r. I-If,lford participated, ordered to be reporteol to-morrow: • Mr. KINGSTON brought up a Copy of the Resolutions of the Court of Directors of the East India Company, cotrern ing Salaries to their Servants. NEW rosT oPPItE. A Copy of the Plan for a new Post ()thee, anti an Estimate 'of the Expences, were brought np. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER wished that there should be a Select - Committee appointed to inquire into the expences of ItuiklinF; a New Post Office. A tf.entletuan asked, what was it supposed would be the difference of expellees between building a new. Post Office and enlarging . lhe old ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he thot,ght *hoot 60,0001. - Mr. PONMONBY should not object to the measure, if the Committee were invested with powers to inquire both into the expences of building a nett• Post Office, and repairing the old one. After a fen' words from 111 r. Long and Mr. Baring, the Committee «•as agreed to. The Frvehold kitlte Bill was read athird time, and passed CORN RETURNS. Mr. FItAxKLIN LEwts moved for an Account of the Average Prices of Wheat per quarter, and Wheat per sack, from 1759 to 1814. Mr, Alderman ATKINS observed, that it bad been said, if Wheat was SOs. a quarter, the loaf Would be 16d. He was sorry to think such a re presentation !I-ad been made, as he did not think the Loaf ought to be more than a shilling. Sir JAMES SHAW said, if the average price of 'heat through England was 80s per quarter, the price of fine flour wpuld•be 95s.'a sack, and the Quartern Loat should be 144 d. Mr. RQBINSON thought the conclusion of the worthy Alderman ratherixtr 'ordinary, that if the in►portation of Wheat were SOs., the Quartern Loaf should be 14d. Mr. BARING said, that the Nvorthv Magistrate could make out his case, that when Wheat Was 60s. per quarter, the Loaf would be 14d. Fix;ng the price so high was nothing but giving money to the Corn grower. Mr. BRAND thought the loaf need not be 14d. though the average price of wheat should be 80s. He had bought the worst samples of wheat within 30 miles of the Metropolis at five . .a bushel. The deficiency in the quantity of flour was about a third ; but the quality of the bread wax, as good as that of the finest flour. At that price for wheat, he found that the consumer ought to have his bread at !Al. the loaf, after a sufficient allowance to the baker, mealman, &c. lie was satisfied that there was some great abuse existing somewhere, after the wheat left the farmer, till .it reached the consumer. This was a sublett which ought to be well enquired into. At 80$. a quarter for wheat, bread ought not to be a shil ling the (pattern loaf. The only object of the Resolution . wal to givr .sufficlent confidence to, the agriculturist to expend his capital, and his la 7 boor, in the production of the first necessary of the country. Alderman ATK!NS said, that it was impossible for the importer ,mealman, or baker, to keep up the price of Bread for any length of time at present. The average price of London for the last six weeks; bad varied but 2s. when that of other places had varied 21s. Mr. CALCIIAFT said, that if the Hon. Gentle man (Mr. Brand) could sell the Quartern Loaf at ‘vhen he bought his Wheat fur ss. the bushel, surely he should double the price of the Loat when h e would give Os. a bushel for Wheat. Mr. MARRY.vr (lid not know whether there was any collusion any ‘vhere,- but if there was it ought to he inquired into. Mr. Lewls said, when the price of wheat was 795. 841. the quarter, flour ought to be 665. 841. the sack, and the loaf a shilling. Sir JAMES StiA'A' said, that all the Magistrates concurred in thinking it ,tairest to strike the,as size on all arerage of flour, and that striking it on the wierage or wheat would be dangerous, where . upwards of a Million of mouths were to be daily supplied. liosE said, that the price was invariably higher in London than in the country towns. He had at one time thought this owing to a mono poly : but there could be no monopoly now, be cause of the free importation into London. I n • deed. he could not as yet satisfy himself as to the cause of the difference. Mr. LEWIS conceived the difference to, arise front the difference of the weight of the sack of of dour in the country and in London. In the former it wRs 4301 b. and in the latter 37111).mill:- int; a ditTereimee - of Glib. in favour of the country. This he thought to be tie true cause. Lord AIICVIII3ALD HAMILTON wished to ask the Right Lion. Gentleman whether he intended to propose any -alteration, and what, in taking► the Average Price of Corn ?' It any alteration was to take place, he would have no objection to reduce the price from 80s. to 745. 755. or 765. ; but ill) alteration should take place, he did not think the price could be lower than 80s. Mr. RoßiNsoN thought •it better to leave th e Averages as they were He was sensible that t h er e would be many objections made on this head, but the more it would be examined into, the more <litlic►iit, he thought, it would be found to alter it. Wirth respect to a question put by the Noble Lord, he would.anslver that British Corn did not exclude Scotch Corn, though it did Irish. The Accounts were then ordered.' NEWSPAPER Mr.WHITBREAD MOM, loran account of News papers sent postage free to the Colonies, and other places beyond the British Isles : also, for an account of the numbers of Foreign Newspapers impored into this country from France, and other parts of the Continent, by the Foreign Post Office ; also for an account of the number of ruleign Newspapers sent from London to the - : .. ts3ltfet parls of treat Ilritni i , rciWigt lite ; 10(1 also for an account Of the Tiantity of timtampt paper, ‘ ,4 detlier by package's or otherwise. — Ordered. REPORT ON THE CORN LAWS Mr. PinaGDEN brought ill) the of the .Cottunitteeoti the llesolutiom relative to the Corn Laws. Mr. Biutc , AY said, it was with considerable reluctance -he stood tip to oppose a string . of Re solutions which had been sanctioned by solarge a majority. From the short- time he had sat in the House, it might perhaps be deemed presump tuous in him to differ so directly in opinion from so Many Gentlemen of much longer parliamentary experience than he had to boast; but he felt him self imperiously called on by what he deemed his duty, to enter his serious protest against these Resolutions, and the principle on which they were founded. If he understood that principle ,right, the landholders now came forward and claimed from the House and the Country a Com pensation for the capital which they had invested in the improvement of their own estates. Surely, by the same rule, the manufacturers had an equal right to conic to the House, and ask a compensa tion for the capital they had expended in enlarg iug their several manufactories, , in obtaining new machinery, and in the purchase of raw'materials, which during many years of the late war had lain' by them a mere drug, and a dead weight. ,1 he manufacturer, however, h ad taken tmo•such step : lie was content to take his chance in Liotle.the home and foreign market, and to depend on the goodness and superiority of his MantliaCtiireS to fetch hint such a price as might, remunerate hint, both for the capital he had laid out, and the la bour lie had bestowed. He was content that the wares he dealt in should go fairly to market, and there find their own level against every sort of competition. The landholders, on the contrary, not satisfied with the high prices of corn "during so many vest's of war, which had io all instances doubled their rents, and in many had trebled them, come to the House and require at its hands a compensation for that capital, which had already procured them so many advantages, in the con tinual advance of their remits during so long a pe riod of time,--during all which the middling and labouring- classes of the, community had been str ugg li ng with difficulties, and patiently and loyally suffering privations, front which they.could expect no deliverance if these Resolutions should be carried into effeet, 7 -privations which they had all along been promised they would be relieved from when Providence should send them the bless ings of Peace. Those blessings, so long looked for, and so much 'desired, had been granted, by our being now at peace with all the world ; and yet, if these Resolutions were carried into •effect, the manufaetorers and the lahottrittg classes must greatly stiffer, because the high price of corn must increase the price of labour, 'and that could not be done without endangering the manufacturer's competition in all foreign markets. He was de cidedly of opinion, that no body of men, how ever respectable, ought to expect a compensation fox the capital they expended for their own bene fit, or for the taxes they paid in common with other bodies of men, according to their several circumstances in life. He must, therefore, once more, protest against the Resolutions, and object to the Report being brought up. Mr. GRATTANsaid, that the question was whe ther Englishmen were to depend on fOreigners for their subsistence ? Could Englishmen then bear to be fed by the charity of France ? Could the House in its wisdom leave room for a possi bility, that time people of England may be starved by foreigners ? It ought to be considered whether the. farmer of this country could contend with the farmers, of the Continent in his own country ? There was a melancholy proof that he could not in the different reports of the Committee on the Corn subject. The importation of foreign Corn within time last two quarters was 800,000 quarters. Who could come to theanonstrons resolution that England should go out of tillage ? Time manufac turer should make out a stronger case than he has as yet made out to prove that she should. He has not proved that it is impossible for hitn to live comfortably if the price of Corn be 80s. or 735. a quarter.. The manufacturers ask the agriculturist two most unreasonable things, " pay us an en ormous pike for our manufactures, and give us your produce for what we please to pay for it." He knew the general principle of leaving things to their natural level was good in the abstract. Timis was the philosophy of the question, and the doc trine of that great political philosopher Adam Smith. But for this, manufacturers mast be un protected as well as agriculture. One obstruction must weigh againSt another. It was a mathemati cal question, if one thing. is artificially raised, so must the other, to keep them on a level. But here manufacture is artificially raised, and if agri culture is not raised in the same way it is de pressed. The agriculturists are asked to be sub ject to two things —to pay such a price as manu facturers please for their manufactures, and to sell their own produce for such a price also as the taanufactiCrers please. The Right Hon. Gentle man eontimied to argue that we should not be starved, although we might not depend on France or any other nation for supplies of.corn. Mit if, on the contrary, we might be certain of having a supply from any foreign nation, could we be cer tain of having that supply cheap ? rateAtaygatax u•e Should be pl ace d i n t h e s i tuation of patyi.in to other countries for our subsistence, while our own agriculturists would cease to cultivate corn. While, then, we arc' depriving ourselves of the best market at home, we are, in, order to make corn cheap, tilt owimmg ourselves upo n a n uncer tain market abroad. He would insist, that the domestic market was capabl e o f supplying the whole of our consumption, if we availed ourselves of the assistance and capabilities of Ireland. If due encouragement were given to the Irish ~r ower be would su ppl y more corn than could ' poss )11 y be wanted ; and the affording of such - encou rage . !Bent is no inure than what he is justly entitled to. Then would the question he, not, whether we should ever want C orn from abro a d, but w h at could be done with our superabundan ce at home. This would assuredly be the case, unless we fell into that miserable policy which forbade the en couragcnient of - Ireland ; and he must say, that hitherto the policy of this country had n6t to 103 111 l Ch encoltragenient ft . ) The Right Honourable (.4entleman then entered upon a statetnent Of the .t,re.).t Of - Corti exported from Ireland at an, early tie rind, as we utt . derstood, of. the last' cent in y ; when, from the itinitilas she received from tile' protecting duty of that time, she, !irst heratiie great agricultural cotilitry. ,Having, the .g9t Ireland into this situation, was it intention of the llOuse that she should ;;et out of it again, and starve, or that she should 'continue her til lage, and by it, •a great Means of her pro. , perity ? Was it meant that Ireland should cease to Conti-• flue an agricultural country, or a rival to fo reigners. with respect to supplies of corn, when her debt was so enornions as 132,000,0001. and .while the expellees whiCh she had to pay to Eng land amounted to 17,000,000/. ? If•she is suffered to go back in het• agriculture, how is she to pay her proportion hf the revenue--where is it to come from ? This is a question which touches not only the credit of the landholder and the gentlemen of Ireland, but the credit of the public funds; and, therefore, by adopting any measure. injurious to her agricultural interests, you take so much credit from the funds and so much front the landed interest. The two countries might to be made necessarily dependent on each other. Ireland, by taking the manufactures of England, is necessarily dependent upon her_; Englaml, by taking her natural produce, returns the benefit, and by this means establishes not merely a legal but ail amicable union, and the great -necessary of life is olAained, independent of all the rest of Diro,te. lint if, on the other hand, we send Ireland hack again, it might be relied upon that not only tier credit and revenues would be dimin.ished, but also her population. Sir ROBERT' PE4F.L said, there ought to be no doubt that tilt:landholder and the manufacturer should gO ; ltand in hand ; and that if any measure were proposed, tending to the benefit of. the one and the iniury of the What., the result would be the final in jury of both. If any measure were re solved upon that would raise the price of bread, it was certain that the price of bread would very soot' fall. lie had been for many years a Member of that flouse, and lutd often witnessed the opi nion of Mr. Pitt on this subject, whose luminous mind was convinced that miles's bread was kept at a reasonable price, our manufactures could not thrive. When there was an opportunity of ob tnining foreign consumption for our manufmetures they bad inereased to the amount of forty millions of exports ; but with all the encouragement that could be given to theta, foreigners could not be able to send two millions worth of Corn from their Countries. Therefore this country has been greatly enriched by the importation of Corn. In the present state of 'things, it was his opinion, that every article whatever Must fall in value, and the reduction in that of land would be serious. His own land would fall at least '2Ol. per cettr. It was impossible that one interest could prevail at the expence of the other. It was well known, that both the produce of. land and its price had of late years increased nearly three-fold. The manufacturer must always be the best friend of the landholder; and it was the interest of the landholder to let no measure pass that is not for the evident benefit of the manufacturer. As !nog as the sea was open to us exclusively, we.forced t trade, and the country . was very much betiefitred front our efforts. But now tile sea is. open to all the world ; when every nation becOmes our rival, would it not be madness to place this country in a situation in which her manufactures could not compete with those of foreigners ? This country abounds in wealth, if we will but give it fair play. lle had no ,objection to the aifording of all . possible protection to agric'ulture ; but he would contend that the manufacturer has been the only benefactor of the landholder. .1.44 labour hits done inure service to the landed interest than any thing else whatever. Let us, then, • have prices' that will enable us to send the wealth of this na tion to other countries ; let the traffic be got into this shape again, and we shall continue to be what we always have been,_ the envy of the world. Mr. Purace Observed, that the House appeared to be going again into the general question . , which, when it was befot e consideml, seemed to be only a question of degree as to pri ce ; and it ,was then evident, that though a difference of opinion pre 'ailed as to what ought to be done, yet every gen tleman thought that it was necessary to do some thing./ For his own part, he thought the ques tion required as much deliberation and candour as airy that had ever conic before that House': He had heard the insinuations that had been thrown out against die I:todholders nit a former evening as to their wish to holdster up the price ; and all he would say was, that there flight be equally as many insinuations made on the opposite..side of the question ; but if such a Mode of allusion pre vailed at all it would be but fair to say, that one person may as well be informed as another.— Every Gentleman in that House conld have but one view on the subject, which was, that it was _necessary- to decide on the measure in the most impartial manner. The interest of the grower and the consumer must he admitted to be the same, and ,therefore, by setting up a diversity of opinion no good could be done to the cause of either. The Right Hon. Gent. complimented an Hon. Member who spoke on a.preceding evening (we believe he alluded to Mr. J. P. Grant), for placing the question on its true ground, by.stating that the restraint would prove whether this country de• petaed on herself or foreigners ; and that it it turned out that we should become dependent upon France, he would then alter his opinion._ This was the ground on which he should wish to put it. - If .we could he made independent of all foreign countries for food, it would be the most desirable event ,that could happen. It would he hi g hly desirable, that as France is anti must ever be our natural riv a l, we should not be dependent upon her for any portion of the necessaries of life. But we were, in Fact, only now acting upon the same system as had prevailed in the time of King William and Charles 11. and which had been attended with the woit advantageous results., No doobt, Gentlemen.w e r e boutid to skew that a ne cessity existed for this interference, but. if they would look into the documents before them, they would see the necessity admitted and proved. Let thew look at the Petitions with which their table Wasti'v C&ed ; let thprii ai. 3o th;cin.;h t i IC oilt en:pire, and they would see Such genera l di s mreii amongstthe agrii:ultoral bratiche:i, as never eur:ed before wiEhlo the eiemory of Lit. to. It tl,e ' 1 only remaliied to he considered c, Wheit extent re - lief could be afforded. He \void(' pri.test the view that had been tAken, of coosidering tl! United Kiligdom of tircat Britain in the same s t t: tuation as the city of Hanover or Bremen. would deity that this was a cominei•eial amt agr* cultural country to the extent that had liven al luded to ; that it was a great Coninier`Cial cOnir try Was well • known, and he trusted it ‘votild ways cOotinue to be so ; but it WaS likewise ',+, great agriculturdi country.. Nay, even if its !tierce and manufactures were to he aimoihilated, would still condone a great country, and m ain• twin its iodependence throughout 'siirope. It eel' . tainly neither had been niir could be so depen dent upon its Manufactures' as the lion. fiaronet► . who had just spoken; had conceived it to • But those who think that our manufactures, which had continued to flourish during the extra.: • ordinary events of the long revolutionary war, will he.equaliy successful now the. nations of th,e Continent are in a state of profound peace, Inaf find themselves egregiously deceived. The irench people, now brought back to order, would anxious to prevent their introduction. At all events, it would be too touch to suppose that we ought to sacrifice every thing to our manufac tures. But the advocates of the manufactur ing hiterests had not condescended to tell us ~ in what manner th e pr o p ose d measure wo uld have the effect of raising the price of Corn. if our manufacturers should not henceforward be able to compete with foreign countries, the circum- , stance would not be owing to this measure. .Bat the Bill was not intended to raise the price of corn ; its object , was to prevent the foreigner from coming into this country with his produce, • to the injury of our own, and even to an exteac which would be ruinous. For many years after the prices had been,fixed, front an early part of the last century till 1764, the price was always lower than it had been before, because the agri - .' culturist felt himself so much at case as to be - able to afford corn at a reasonable price. It would he the height of absurdity to give the come triunity reason to believe that for a year or two ' only, they might have Corn at a very low price, and after that to let them have the prospect of it 4 being consiOrably . dearer. If was folly to talk of the impossibility of this country not being, able to 'grow Corn enough for its whole consumprion• From a calculation which he held in his hand it appeared, that taking Great Britain 'and Ireland together, the superficital contents were sixty-three millions of acres, and the population of the ens pire about 17,000,000/. Supposing that twelve millions out of the seventeen eat wheaten bread , and that the rest subsist on oats or other corn , and that each individual of the former portion eon"' slimes about a quarter of wheat, does any man be' lieve, that the land will not produce the whole of t ll6 quantity required ? He would admit, that he lead, been a great sceptic on the subject of the nieces' sity of importation ; but he had altered his I nion on minutely examining into it. In the 1;14' .year it appeared that 670,000 quarters of Cori had been imported ; but of these '430,000 weft : imported from Ger man y, H o ll an d, •Flatulers, 01( :ranee, all ‘vititio the last quarter of a -y e are. -- He would not take into the account any impor"" riots which might come front America or fro"! Poland, because the circumstances of expenee, e t freight and navigation, and the distance 1I(' which they would be brought would o verly' against the introduction of any material Van" ( tity ; but as to the iniportations from the rest 4 Europe, it would i n a moment b e seen , that " 43,000 quarters of Wheat add 9 00,000 of Oa ° could be imported in one quarter of a year iron; countiies of the Continent, independent of Franc`' this country could be in no danger of wanting' Is supply. It was exceedingly natural, that ,peol' l who Beyer stir out of their localities, and xvlto =4 oondition and habits prevented them from inv l ' s ' tigating the subject, should wish to have Corn 115 cheap as possible, and so they got it cheap, it "' - ' l4 no matter to them - whe re i t came from. It was inl" possible for such people to argue on the snbicet.; and on this account lie would not give way to tb el i opinion. It was• this ou tc r y f o r c h ea p nre a ' t xvliich demolished the Roman power : Paßeo 4 eireenses was the demand of the people ; the de magogues joined in the clamour, and time Gove r f; ment was ,at last oblig e d t o f urn i s h t h em 0 1 ', bread gratuitously; then they neglected the c li c tivation of their own f ert il e l an d s, an d l oo k e d 1- ‘' r tbeir.supplies to Sicily and to Egypt: but "ft t , this the hardy faces of the Romans were worn o f n the rusticorum. otsculorminver 'n e seen no more, o 5 'd tile clamours for - cheap • bread caused the loss , 3 their liberty, and thei r u lti mate ru i n. Th e re " , no question that, in the present state of the c 00 : 1 'd try, Corn would h e imp orte d c h eap, an d we diorite have cheap bread for one or two years ; but consequence would be, that our own . ag'ri co Th wrists, particularly within fifty miles of Lon ij if' would not be abl e t o o b ta i n a proper pr i ce forth . t Corn, and would, therefore cease to groW then we should have our finest land laid closyn n j • pasture, and the rest covered with thistles 11 brambles. Can it th en b e a matter o f d o ubt f i t o ' s ; an instant, whether w e oug ht to en c ourage, iere , reign Corn in pr e fe rence to our own surely could be no idea of any thing so abs li e suppose, for any re asons good, bad, or in 11ft rent, the Foreign Powers should, at a future Po Hod, Stop the e%portation of Corn, what w °l % ,,e become of us, if, from its previous i nun dation , tr i had suffered the agricultur e o f our own c0n%,.. to decline ? It h a d b een sa id t h at t his try would cease to be great without , -,1 105 e ponderance in commerce an d manufactures• 0 0 who thought so, sho u ld cas t t h e i r ev e s hackol) rot what had lately h a pp ene d. We had seen a g , country-great without either manufactur e /10 1e commerce, which had conquei ed nearly the "' ev er of Europe.—(Hear, h ear !) . —Fie would ; 1 0 0' adsnit that the agricultur e o f our country' ' ll ~ct be thrown.back—such a measure Would be " 11 • f not only of the most serious inipolicy, bat ° lat ter' justice ; and he was persu a ded, th a t if the n bc , i rd was fairly stated, the poo rest man within ~,c5 ing of the House would exclaim a " No!" 1° , 0 ,a1 4 proposition. With regard to the price , a at was a difference of (Minion_ nc tn %Oath i i i