The Sun. — London, England, 1849-02-08 00:00:00

110 yPsterday. I. 11111 ,- T ti !;:., rne:•tng; thou -11 ti i . ot.t hoon Fr_iilion of -A Special General Conn of the Proprietors of this Company was held yesterday at twelve o'clock , at the East India House, a t th e desire of nine Proprietors of East India Stock, as expressed in the following, letter : " London, January 17, 1849. • " To the Chairman and Directors of the East India Company "Honourable Airs, " We, the undersigned Proprietors of East India Stock, duly gua r , J . 1110 (1 by law, request that you will convene, at your earliest conve •. Mience, a Special General Court of Proprietors, for the purpose of 1- " fr - I , 4iftr into*. consideration. the c.ccompanying Resolutions, and that be pleased to publish - e_sarne with this, our requisition. ' We have the honour to be, "honourable Sirs, "Your obedient Servants, "JOSEPH HUSIE. "ARTHUR J. LEWIS. "J. SULLIVAN. " CHARLES FORBES. "JOHN POYNDEII. "GEORGE FORBES. "JOIN BRIGGS. "CHARLES GRANT. "J. W. GRAHAM." .4. N.- • RESOLUTIONS. " That by the treaty concluded between the East Is da Company nd his late Highness Pertaub Singh, Raja of Sattara, on the 25th ..' t 'S - eptcrnber, 1819, the territories of Sattara were secured to him and o his heirs in perpetual sovereignty. That by the supplemental 'treaty of September, 1839, 'the said territories were confirmed to his tother A . ppa Sahib, as the next collateral heir and successor, and to heirs, on the sama terms as specified in the treaty of September, '8 19. . That this Court has heard with feelings of the deepest surprise d alarm of the contemplated seizure, confiscation, and annexation, thb East India Company, of the Sattara territories, in violation of •the rights of the lawful heir believing, as this Court does, that such eizttre, confiscation, and annexation would be a most flagrant breach of the said treaties so solemnly entered into and confirmed, would be. a disgrace and stain upon the British character, and would se ,..lously weaken the confidence hitherto reposed by the princes and • people of India in the justice and good faith of the East India Com- ally.aud of the British Government. " That under such circumstances this Court deems it to be their jmperatlye duty to declare their solemn conviction of the impollcy and danger, no less . than of the injustice of such a proceeding, and to e.xpress their earnest hope that the Court of Directors and the Board f Control will withhold their sanction from such a measure. " JAMES C. MELVILL, Secretary." The attendance of proprietors was very large. I gir S. Lnshington took the chair at the appointed hour. The requisition having been read, Mr. HUMS, M.P., rose and said—Mr. Chairman, as one of those who have been instrumental in calling • a .together this Court, and as the proprietors will no doubt expect some explanations as to the grounds on which they have been called together, and the object which the'requisitionists have in view, I will proceed at once bfiefly to state them. It will be remembered, that in December a Court was summoned. I was one .of those who signed the requisition; but, being absent from town, I was unable .to attend. The object of that meeting was to ascertain whether the Court of Directors contemplatc-d the suspension of the treaty made with the late Raja of Sattara, and thus to deprive his heirs of the property which appeared legitimately to belong to them by right. I confess I was among those who believed that no such proceedings could take place without some further infor mation which the Directors were not then, however much they may be now, possessed of. Had I been present at that meeting I should have moved the adjournment of the Court, on the an nouncement of the Chairman that the whole matter was under the consideration of the Court, toge ther with the papers which had just then arrived from India.—(Hear, hear.) Such was my impression, and I subsequently took an opportunity of stating that was my :impression to some of the Directors whom I now see within the bar. I regretted much that any discussion should have taken place at that meeting, as I am . convinced that any discussion, without the documents necessary to form a sound opinion, must inevitably lead to arriving at a conclusion opposite to that which we should arrive at if we had had an opportunity of pe •rusing the requisite documents.• The possession of such means of judging are necessary before we can come to a sound conclusion upon all the questions which engage the attention of the Court, but more especially is such a course necessary when we have to decide upon public questions of great importance; and this question is one in which are involved the most momentous condi tions. If, Sir, I am correctly informed, after Mr. Lewis, in the absence of Mr. Sullivan, had made his statement and submitted his motion, upon which the Deputy Chairman rose up and proposed the, adjournment of the Court, you said that the motion for the adjournment was submitted on the ground that the question was receiving the con sideration of the directors, that is was sub judice before the directors, who would bring to it the best considera tion they were enabled to do. You went on to state, that as the papers which had recently arrived from India were under the consideration of the directors, it would be far batter to adjourn the Court, in order to afford time for their production and perusal by the proprietors. That statement would have induced me to advise my Honourable and Learned Friend to postpone any fur ther remarks until the directors and the proprietors had had an opportunity of considerin,g the papers. Now, Sir, I apprehend that what was stated then led the pro prietors to imagine that the papers contained something new--something which had not up to that time been hrought before us in this Court. It is quite possible that these papers may be of a very important nature, and may tend in a great measure to alter the opinion which have,formed. I do not know that this is likely, but what I have stated with respect to myself may be true with regard to others. The production of all papers is absolutely necessary before the proprietors can give an honest opinion, and come to an equitable decision upon the matters brought before them; and it would be most unfair, I think, to the whole of the proprietors for ,the directors to come to a decisiod with respect to a question which has been so long before the public, until the fullest information has been afforded them. Now, Sir, the Court ajourned to give the directors an opportu nity of producing these papers. I am sorry to see the chairman shake his head.—(Laughter.) I would merely observe that a conventional feeling guides the conduct of gentlemen is every station, and in every court, by which a fair opportunity is afforded to every one of candidly expressing his opinion before a deter mination is arrived at.—(Hear, hear.) I am sure every man in the. Court as well as myself, had I been present, would have concurred in the adjournment, and concurred ' in it in the belief that the Court of Directors wished for a short time to consider as to the course which they should adopt.—(Hear, hear.) I understood, in fact, that the 3d day of January had been fixed as the day on which they were to meet the Proprietors, and to explain what they intended to do, and would take their opinion as to its policy and justice. —( Hear, hear.) I say every man present, and every one who has read the remarks made on that occasion, must be fully impressed with the belief that the documents were to be produced, and that the adjournment was pro posed in order that they might be printed and cir culated among the Proprietors, and that they likewise might be enabled to have an opportunity of coming to a decision before any orders were sent out to India with respect to the territory of Sattara. — (Cheers.) Now it is quite possible that men in high stations may resort to expedients to deceive, they miy adopt a course inconsistent with fair dealing, but in the end'such conduct will not answer with the public. Y say again, therefore, that the fair interpretation of the statement of the Chairman at the last meeting was what I have stated—that the Proprietors were to have the papers before them; and having had these papers before them, that they were then to take the whole question— which is one of th e greatest" importance—intoconsider atiOn. I am sorry to find, from the intimation of the Chairman, that he denies that any such in timation was given. . Your intention, then, m have been to gain time. It was stated by an soene.Gen tleman at the last meeting who objected to th e quest i on of adjournment, that they might again meet without the papers having been produced, and that they might be told, " You are too late—the question has been decided =and you have no longer any right to interfere." Sir, that the directors would so act was repudiated— tlytt they would take such an advantage of the proprie tors was distinctly denied. Now, Sir, I complain on be half of the Baja , th a t we' have been deceived— that the promise held, and the pledge giVen, that the Court wa s to adjourn , in order that the documents from India should be published, have beph broken.—(Hear.) I complain that the Directors have not produced these papers, and they have come to a decision, in conjunction with the Go vernment, to seize the Se tters territor y , and orders have been sent out for the appropriation of the whole of the territory of Sattara to the Company without reference to- any provision for the heirs of the deceased Raja. Now, Sir, if that is the case, I have only. to say that a trans action more discreditable, more dishonourable, and one more likely to have a deep effect upon the public mind, it has never in my long life been my lot to experience. The charge I thus make against the Direc tors is a serious one, and must be investigated, I com plain, Sir, that you have stolen a march ' upon the proprietors, to use a common phrase. Yes! I complain that you have stolen a march upon us most unfairly, most improperly, and I ask you, Sir, if it was right that you should have acted thus, and why you refused to afford the Proprietors an opportu nity of discussing the question after the production of the papers? On what ground have you denied to us the right which we possess of discussing all matters such as this, more especially one in which the honour of the company is concerned, the faith of treaties, and th e cha racter of the English nation is involved?—(Cries of " - Hear, hear.") For, Sir, if there is anything more discreditable than another, it is that the faith of sacred treaties entered into between state and state should be wantonly violated. And, Sir, I feel this the more be ealisO during the long period I have been a Proprietor, and on all occasions in which I have attended t his Court,7,ll have repeatedly s t a t e d t h at the succe ss of the East India Company was not owing more to t h e power of its arms than to the good faith which it had maintained with native chiefs; and I have always held, Sir, that the combinations of native chiefs for no good purpose were broken asunder e a l and with thisd rendered pow com pany, because they powerless. and each strengthen ed in his had no confidence in each other, as they could not be trusted , and that they put the most implicit faith in this company on account of the strict honour with which it bad kept, before the worlil, the faith of all the engagements into which it had entered; but if, Sir, yowl e% pout to break agreements which have been enter e d i n t o w ith you in good taitlif you are aberrit tci. set aside treaties solemnly entered into without tee sanction of the Proprietors, who by the tenor of the Net of Parliament under which we are incorporated are themselves G,,v,roors, and you are only appointed by them to carry on the government, that confidence which has been heretofore reposed in you will be irre parably shaken.—(Hear.) I say you have acted most unfairly, because you led us to expect that our decision would be sought upon the matter before you came to a final decision. Under these cir cumstances I will not enter into the general ques tion whether treaties have been violated or not, whether a young man who had been named as the successor of the deceased Raja, both by adoption and lineal descent, is entitled to the territory; and I be lieve the person who chains to be the heir to the territory has been indicated by the late Governor-General, Sir Robert Grant, as the real heir—indicated, too, as such in all your documents. The question of his right, therefore, is quite inde dendent of the question whether Pertaub Singh has betrayed or violated the treaty. The question is, is his family to be punished for any acts of which he may or may not have been guilty? Mr. CLARKE said the Hon. Proprietor was out of order, unless he intended to conclude with a motion. Mr. Humn replied that the Hon. Proprietor must know little of his practice if he thought that he intended to conclude without a motion.—(Laughter.) He was not, however, about to enter into the general question. He merely wished to state that the successor of the deceased Raja must not be held, in common parlance, implicated in any of the guilt which was laid to the charge of his grand uncle. Having been informed by the First Minister of the Crown that it was a fact that orders had gone out, with the approbation of the Board of Control, to confiscate the Sattara territory, he expressed his sincere regret that the Directors had adopted so precipitate and uncalled-for a step, he begged to move that the Court do adjourn for a fortnight or three weeks, in order that the papers might be in the hands of the Proprietors. By law, he believed that the Pro prietors were entitled to copies of all documents which were laid before the House of Commons. He had spoken thus strongly 'because he felt strongly the dis grace—he would call it the infamy, which attached to every one connected with the East India Company, in consequence of the course it had adopted. If disgrace attached to persons in private life who committed a glaring breach of faith, how much more so must they condemn a great Company who committed such an act as this? It was not so much with respect to the stain of the deceased Raja's family that he spoke thus, but of the faith of the treaties which were about to be violated, and the disgrace which would thereby be brought upon his name. The Honourable Gentleman subsequently amended his motion, and moved for copies of the papers which he had moved for in the House of Com mons, in order that they might be circulated among the Proprietors.—(Cheers.) The CHAIRMAN said he had no hesitation nor objec tion on the part of the Directors to have the papers re ferred to published and circulated among the Pro prietors.—(Hear, hear.) The proposition for the ad journment of the Court could not receive the assent of the Directors. It would take some time to prepare the papers, and when the Proprietors had perused them, the Directors would be happy to attend to any requisition that might be presented to them for the purpose of calling another meting.—(Hear.) He could not, however, resume his seat without calling the atten tion of the Court to the very hard terms in which the Hon. Proprietor had spoken of the Directors.—(Hear, hear.) At the last meeting he did not make use of the observation which the Hon. Gentleman had imputed to him. Indeed it would have been most unconstitutional in him to place executive powers in the hands of the Proprietors. A PROPRIETOR rose to order. The motion had not been seconded. Mr. HUME then proposed his motion in express terms— " That the papers connected with tho appropriation of the Sattara territory, and the decision of the Court, and any minutes connected with that decision, should be laid before - the Proprietors as speedily as possible." He had consulted the President of the Board of Control on the subject, and he was of opinion that that was the best form in which to frame his motion. Mr. LEWIS seconded the proposition. Mr. CLARKE said no pledge was given by the Chairman at the last meeting that he should produce any of the papers.—(Hear.) No such inference or deduction could be made from the observations which the Chairman sub mitted to the meeting. The CHAIRMAN was glad the Honourable Pro prietor had made the statements he had, as it prevented him from replying to the hard terms used towards himself and the Directors by the Hon. Proprietor (Mr. Hume). He could only truly and distinctly state that no pledge of the kind was given to the Court of Proprietors. He only said that the papers had arrived, and that they were sub judice under the consideration of the Directors. It never, he assured the Proprietors, entered his mind that first of all they were to be submitted to the Court of Proprietors. They were not the executive government ; the time had not arrived when the directors were to surrender that power to the Proprietors. The Honourable Member had been correctly informed by the First Minister of the Crown, that the question of the right to the territory of Sattara had been settled in con junction with the Board of Control, and that the confis cation of the territory had been determined upon. It was not improper for the Proprietors to discuss the mat ter then, but it appeared to him that they would not be in a position to give a fair opinion until they had had an opportunity of perusing those papers which, as he had said, would be circulated among them with the least possible delay. He was unwilling s to name any parti cular day for the adjournment of the Court. When the Proprietors had made themselves acquainted with their contents another meeting might be called by requisition. Mr. DONALDSON said he was present at the last meet ing, and certainly his impression of what the Chairman stated with regard to the production of the papers was exactly as that stated by the Hon. Gentlethan who had just sat down.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. LEWIS, as the mover of the resolution:at the last meeting, might, perhaps, be allowed to state what his impression was upon the subject. When he had con cluded by moving his resolution, and after he had stated his arguments in support of it, and it had been duly seconded, the Chairman rose and stated that he felt it to be his duty to adjourn the Court on the ground that the time had not arrived for the consideration of the subject, as it formed a matter then under the deliberation of the Court of Directors.— (Hear, hear.) Now he put it to any person who heard that statement whether the plain and only intelligible inference to be drawn from that declaration was not that before an actual decision was come to on the Sat tara question, and before a final dispatch was sent out to India confirming the decision, that Court would have an opportunity of stating their views and opinions on the matter?—(Hear, hear.) That was the plain and common sense inference to be drawn from the Chairman's statement. True, he did not actually say that the papers should be laid before them, but the only inference to be drawn from the tone and manner of the Chairman was, that the papers would be forthcoming, and the Court would have another opportunity of fully and impartially discussing the question before the Executive came to a final decision upon it. That was the natural inference which the statement of the Chairman led to; although he did not mean to say that the Chairman made any pledge, but he represented that it was dis tinctly understood that they should have an opportunity of discussing this question before the dispatch was sent out.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. HEWSON really could not understand what ground of complaint the gentlemen who had been instrumental in calling the meeting could urge against the Directors. The Honourable Gentleman who had just addressed them said they were to have another opportunity of discussing the question. For his part, however, he thought they had already had the fullest opportunity for discussion and placing their opinions before the Court of Directors, who, no doubt, had given them all the consideration that they were worth. —(Hear, hear.) The Court of Directors was the only tribunal to decide the question. The Court of Pro prietors might give its opinion upon it, and the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down and his friends en tered at large into their views at the last Court, and he was quite surprised that the Honourable Gentleman who had introduced the question to-day had not well consi dered the proceedings of the last Court before he ven tured to make such sweeping charges against the Court of Directors.—(tlear, hear.) It was an odd thing that he should now be called upon to defend the con sistency of the gentlemen who took part in the discussion at the last Court, who had certainly put a construction upon the statement of the chairman which that his of co-directors or by no m eans justified his being told that his conduct and was fair rep d u e g a n h a n n g t , to an e d very principle a vi o o n la s, tio ad n n ofcalcguolaotded fatioth castan danthinedellaibwle slurof annad tistain upon the c h aracter of the Company.—(Hear, hear.) How could that be? The Hon. Gentle man stig matised their conduct in those terms because they had not allowed the question to be discussed before they came to a decision upon it. w hy the Honourable Gen tleman who introduced th e reso l ut i on at the last Court entered into long arguments to prove the truth of his position, and he was followed, true, not at great length, ' by a seconder, who insisted that, according to the laws and usages of India, the heir of the late Rsja ought to be adopted and acknowledged by the Court.—(Hear, hear.) Well, then, these gentlemen, and every man who attended the Court, had had an ample opportunity of giving their opinion upon t he s u b j e c t. At the last Court, the fullest latitude was given to them for doing so, while the directors in no way attempted to stop the investigation. No doubt the directors were dis posed to be influenced by t hat discussion as far as its merits deserved, and be was quite convinced they considere d and dul y weigh edthe arguments adduced, on the last occasion of their meeting, before they came to the resolution to send out the_ dispatch ; and he was satisfied they were undeserving of the vituperation which had been heaped upon them. Major OLIPHANT said, it appeared to him that there was very little difference of opinion amongst them on the point in dispute; but he could assure the proprietors that the majority of the gentlemen behind the bar would be ready and willing to give their reasons for the course they had pursued when the Court reet again. In the mean time he might perhaps be allowed to state that there was no difference of opinion in the Court of Directors upon the question, and as Ithe Chairman had already consented to the production of the papers, he could see no reason for any further discussion.—(Hear,) Sir J. W. ROGO agreed with bis honourable col league that there was no difference of opinion in the Direction as to the propriety of producing the papers for every gentleman ' no matter whether a Proprietor or a Director, was equally interested the settlement of this question. It was therefore highly 'desirable th a t the- papers rs- should be laid before the public, and the matter disposed of as peedily as possible.—(Hear, heir.) He thought no person who had read the discussion which took place at the last Court could sympathise with the sentiments of the Honourable Gentleman who had opened the debate.—(Hear, hear.) He Cdr. Hume) made charges against his Hon. Friend the Chair roan of this Court, in language which he was sure the Hon. Gentleman would regret when he read it over:in his cooler moments. The Hon. Gentleman made use of the words " dishonourable," " disgraceful," and " ill-advised," and the only comment he should make upon them might be compressed into one sentence. They fell harmless upon his Hon. Friend the Chairman, and only proved injurious to the person who had used them. But he was more astonished at the doctrine the Honourable Gentleman had laid down with regard to the constitution of the Court of Directors and the formation of the Company, and he was the more surprised at this doctrine, because it came from the lips of a gentleman who was suppos4d to be an authority on matters connected with India. They were told by the Hon. Gentleman that the Court of Proprietors formed the Executive Government.—(No, no.) Some gentlemen cried " No, no," but that was the meaning of what the Hon. Gentleman said ; but if that was not the meaning of what he said, his words and observations were altogether devoid of meaning. He said it was the province of the Court of Proprietors to determine the powers of their executive, but he very much doubted whether the Hon. Gentleman would be; able to sustain that doctrine. Now, how stood this matter? When the discussion took place at the last meeting, his Hon. Friend the Chairman said the question was sub judice. Then said the Hon. Proprietor who introduced this mo tion, it was the duty of the Directors, according to the Constitutional Government of India, before they decided upoirjhe question—before they communicated their decision to the department who co-operated with them in the affairs of India—to call the Proprietors together and consult them upon it.—(Hear, hear.) Now, that was the statement of the Honourable Gentleman, but he (Sir J. Hogg) denied that that was the constitutional Government of India. Everybody could see the peril and the error at once of allow ing a controlling body to form part of the Exe cutive Government. It would be an endless source of danger for the Executive Government to be continually consulting the proprietary body upon matters like these. They had example of this every day—every session they had example of this, more par ticularly in the Foreign Department of the Executive Government. A question was asked respect ing some matters pending, in the course of negotiation, and the Foreign Secretary rose and stated that the matter was sub judice. It was under considera tion, and 'he could not answer the question for rea sons which the Executive Government and the Minister representing her Majesty did not feel disposed to state. Perhaps a week or a fortnight afterwards the same question was repeated, and the Member was informed that the thing was done—accom plished; but the Minister was willing and ready to lay the papers before the House, that parties might pass their judgment upon the conduct of the Executive Government. ' Then some one jumped up and said "We are always too late or always too soon," upon which the Minister replied that he had acted strictly in accordance with the constitu tion. If the constitution was wrong, alter it, but while it existed adhere to it. It was at least the duty of their Executive Government, to adhere to it, and there was, therefore, no cause of complaint. That was exactly the same in this Court. It was not competent for the Court of Directors to wait for the decision of the Proprie tors before they determined any question ; but it would be physically and morally impossible to placeithe government of this Company in= a proprietary body numbering upwards of 2,000 persons. They were, therefore, bound to select some body to form an Execu tive. If, however, that system was wrong, it was com petent for the Proprietors to change it, or at least make an endeavour to do so, but do not F let Hon. Proprietors get up in the manner they had just witnessed, and apply allorts of ill names to the Chairman and Directors, because they had done their duty in acting according to the constitution and laws of the Company. (Hear, hear.) But when a man used harsh or hard language, it induced him to arrive at one of two conclusions, either the party using such language had a bad temper or a bad cause.— (Hear, hear, and laughter.) Now his Hon. Friend had not a bad temper. He was known in the House of Commons to be of an excellent temperament. He had been tried beyond all men in the House, and had been proved to be the man least open to give offence, and the least open to offence. It was admitted by common consent that, .amidst the heat and strife of parties,. he was one of the best tempered men in the House. He never said a hard thing of any body, and seldom or never took offence at any one, although he frequently had good cause to do so. The conclusion he had come to at all events was, that he never lost his temper, and he could not for the life of him help think ing that he must have a bad cause.—(Hear, hear.) It often struck him that whenever the Hon. Gentleman got up to speak upon this unfortunate Sattara question he felt a little uneasy in his temper. He could not help thinking that the Honourable Gentleman felt within himself as though he would rather say, " Alack-a-day, what a miserable hour it was when I first took up this unfortunate Sattara question. lam perfectly ashamed of it myself, and of the part I have taken in it."—(Hear, and laughter.) He could not for the life of him, with all his constitutional good humour, preserve his usual equanimity of manner and feeling when he got up to speak upon this topic, and he (Sir J. W. Hogg) could not help thinking that the Hon. Gentleman heartily regretted that he was ever drawn into becoming the advocate of such a cause as this.—(Cheers.) Mr. HuseE must really be allowed to say a word or two in explanation. Often as he had occasion to complain of the Honourable Baronet being in the wrong he had never known him so far wrong as he was now.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) But, not withstanding the observations of the Hun. Baronet, he did not regret one word, or one argument he had made use of; but he must complain that the Honourable Baronet had taken his words without the previous remarks. What he said was this, the Court separated, as far as he knew, with the understanding that they were to be informed of the decision of the Court, and to have the papers before them before a final settlement was come to of the questions An adjournment took place upon that understanding, and it was in that belief that he made use of the words re ferred to.—(Hear, hear.) With regard to the ex planation of his Honourable Friend, in reference to the constitution of the :Company, the instance he had Mentioned was exactly in point, for upon one occasion he called for papers which were not produced. The Hon. Gentleman said, in that case, he (Mr. Hume) had no right to pass an opinion upon .what followed, but what was the case? Why, when these papers were produced he himself moved in the House of Com mons a vote of censure upon the Minister for what he had done. It was, therefore, not inconsistent with the constitution to discuss the decision of the Directors, and his Honourable Friend, in future, when he got upon the high horse, would do well to take care that he did not ride him into the mud.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) He would not do more now than simply say that in applying the epithets he had done he did so sincerely, believing that the conduct of the Directors merited them, while he could assure the Hon. Baronet, and he would give him credit for truth, when he said the Hon. Baronet was mistaken in supposing that he (Mr. Hume) fancied his cause was a bad one.—(Hear, hear.) Sergeant GAZELLE gave it as his opinion that those repeated adjournments of the Courts called for special purposes were illegal and unconstitutional, and begged to give notice to the Hon. and Learned Gentleman who was then standing counsel of the Company, and who who was considered the highest authority in the kingdom upon such points, that at the next Court he should put a question to him upon that matter, and he hoped the Hon. and Learned Gentleman would come prepared to give him an answer.—(Hear, hear.) A PROPRIETOR begged to asked if the notice of motion had any relation whatever to the question before them? The CHAIRMAN—It has nothing whatever to do with it. • _ _ Mr. Sergeant GAZELEE said, however that might be, he was quite sure that the Honourable and Learned Gentleman would make a note of his notice and be prepared to answer his question at the next meet ing. He would now proceed to the matter in discus sion. He had alwa) s expressed himself in that Court in courteous terms, and he had never failed to treat every one with courtesy and respect. He could not, however, help regretting that the Chairman had ben placed in a most unfortunate position, because, assuming for a moment that the epithets applied to the Ron. Gentleman were not applicable to him, it would, at all events, be admitted that he had been unfortunate in his words and expressions, if they had led to a misunder standing. It was a most extraordinary fact that in this Court when words were misunderstood, they were always misunderstood against the Proprietors and their rights, and in favour of the Directors.—(Laughter.) One would almost think that the words addressed from the chair were intended to be misunderstood, but he ven tured at the last meeting to warn the Proprietors that they ought to discuss the matter fully thorn, for he was quite certain that when they came again they would be told it was too late; but the words of the Chairman no doubt intentionally induced the meeting to think otherwise.—(Hear, hear.) He agreed with his Hon. Friend that the impression he and others went away with was, that the question was to be submitted to them again before any fresh decision was come to upon it, and it was a breach of good faith on the part of the i Di rectors not to hav e k e pt th a t prom i se .—(H ear , hear.) The C w a Azi 5 i — 1 1 1 ft e t rp ru r s e t tw the h at Hon. d a i n d d s a 5 Learned but I will Gen tleman presently read to the Court what I said. I deny most posi tively that I intended such a construction to be put upon my words as to l ea d to a b e li ef t h at the quest i on o f t h e andr not whether the Proprietors fact Raja of Satt ara wou ld b e submitted to the i r future consid era ti on . N ow this is what I d i d I wil h l ay s e ee. st l ate s d houl i d s correct or o be ashamed of myself if I ever said a single word holding out a deceptive belief. The whole' conduct of my life will gainsay anything of the sort. I will read now to the Court what r did say, and after that, I will not answer any further complaint that may be made. Mr. Sergeant GAZELEE—It is exceedingly disagree able to be interrupted in this way. The CHAIRMAN—I call you to order, because yoa make a most unwarrantable attack upon me. This is what was taken by the short-hand writer:— " It is not my intention to reply to the statements and arguments advanced as regards this case; when the pro. per time arrives I shall be ready to express my opini on h Sattara territory • but in regard to the appropriation of t in fact I am not prepared for it now, and therefore shall not say a word in answer to the Ho n . Pr o prietor. I may state that the general question is sub jqdice. _ 411 the doeuments are before the Directors, who will duly consider them, I am sure, with every attention to what is right and proper. I know they will act in consistency with the expressed opinion of this Court, that it is better to leave the matter at present in the hands of the Executive whom the Proprietors have no minated. All, therefore, I have to say is, that it will be in the recollection of the Court of Proprietors that, no longer ago than two or three months, a motion was made in substance precisely the same as this now before the Court of Proprietors. Under these circum stances, I am quite sure that I shall have the support of the Court in adopting the same course which was then taken—moving the adjournment of the Court. That is the course which was pursued on that occasion, and certainly should again be followed, now the matter is under the consideration of the Court of Directors. I therefore move that this Court do now adjourn." Now, if any Proprietor can put a construction upon that to the effect that before the Court of Directors came to any decision on the subject, it would be submitted to the Proprietors, I cannot agree with him. I had; no intention whatever to hold out such an impression, for, as I said before, it would have been unconstitutional for me to do so, as the Pro prietors have nothing to do with the decision; and I must confess that I am rather surprised that the Hon. and Learned Proprietor should have attacked me in the manner he has done. The DEPUTY-CHAIRMAN then rose to address the Court, but was called to order by The CHAIRMAN, who reminded him that Mr. Sergeant Gazelee was in possession of the chair. Mr. Sergeant GAZELEE, after complaining of the unwarrantable interruption of the Deputy-Chairman, and complimenting the Chairman for his impartial conduct in putting his colleague down, proceeded to in sist, that with regard to the question of integrity and hohour he stood upon an equal footing with the Chair man or any other member of the Court. The Chairman had read them his speech from the short-hand writer's notes, and he should be glad to know who it was that paid for those notes, or whether the short-hand writer was paid only for reporting the Directors, or fur reporting everything that occurred. If the latter, he must say that some very garbled reports had been made of his speeches, indeed in many instances his speeches had been so altered that he did not know them when he saw them again. —(Hear, hear, and laughter.) Now, with regard to the subject-matter in dispute, he did not impute any improper motives to the Chair, but he did maintain that the Chairman had been placed in an unfortunate position by his language at the last Court having been misunderstood ; for, intentional or not, the words ad dressed from the chair induced belief that another occa sion would be afforded them for discussing the question. But he must be allowed to enter his protest against the system which prevailed that Court, whenever a troublesome question came on, of the Chairman moving an adjournment. He appreciated the value of the entertainmeats and good :dinners given at the East India House as much as any man, but neither good dinners nor any ether in ducement ought to lead to the shirking of this question of the Raja of Sattara. It seemed to be always arranged that whenever it came on the Chairman should move an adjournment, and now they were to be put down by being told that their cause was a bad one because they did not keep their temper. —(Hear, hear, and laughter.) Did they see him out of temper? On the contrary, he was never more cheerful and inclined to be good humoured in his life.— (Hear.) Now came the question. Up rose S i r James Hogg , and turned all this into fun; but what was fun to him was death to the Raja of Sattara and his friends. Sir J.Hogg, had very great tact in turning things into fun and ridi cule, and that was the way in which the poor Raja of Sattara and his affairs were treated. He (Mr. Sergeant Gazelee) agreed with Sir J. Hogg, it the constitution of the Court of Directors was bad, that it should be altered, and if any of the Directors were bad that they should be turned out. It was all very well for those men in power to say. " Turn us out." The fact was, that the Act of Parlia ment constituting the Court made their seats annual. The Directors never gave him (Mr. Sergeant Gazelee) any invitation to any of their grand dinners.—(Laugh ter)—and he said from the bottom of his soul, turn them out.—(Renewed laughter.) The more people sae of the mockery of their proceedings the more would it be seen to be necessary that honest and upright mer should be sent into the Court of Directors. When Sir J. Hogg likened the Court of Directors to the Foreign office of the House of Commons, it was a very bad pre cedent. With great respect to him, he Mr. Sergeant Gazelee) would suppose that Sir J. Hogg was a member of a large constituency. Suppose a question of great importance came on for discussion, would Sir J. Hogg condescend to ask his constituents not to give up the re presentative character, for that would be treating it as a matter of delegation, but to ask their advice ? He was sure in such a case Sir J. Hogg would not say that the way iu which he would act would depend whether the election was near at hand or not.—(Laughter.) Sup pose the question was one of education, would he consider it as infra dig. to consult the Dissenters upon it, or would he treat them, as be did the Proprietors, as men of straw ? He (Sergeant Gazelee) did not mean to say that the electors were to control the votes of the representative, but he said every man would not consult his constituents, and say " Mr. So-and-so, you are the mover, and you, tMr. So-and-so, are the seconder of my nomination, what are the wishes of the constituency on such and such a question, I don't mean to say it shall influence me; but just, if you can, say , what Mr. So-and so thinks. an-I I don't think, it will affect my dignity to attend to it." That was the whole question. It one of the Directors held up his hand, fifty others of the Di rectors held up their bands immediately ; if one of them cachinated, there were fifty others who cachinated im mediately. But if Sir J. Hogg could divert their atten tion from a matter by his fun, if he could make them laugh and turn them from the subject under consideration, why his purpose was gained. Let the meeting contrast their demeanour when in office with their deportment when, as candidates, they came bowing and scraping to ask the opinions and the suffrages of the Proprietors. When those gentlemen got into the direction, was it to be tolerated that they were to treat the roprietors with contumely. He cautioned the Proprietors not to be mis led ; the Directors were endeavouring to put this matter on a false point ; they were misinterpreting Mr. Hume's words, and were endeavouring to make the Proprietors believe that they, the Proprietors, wanted to take upon them the settlement of this ques tion. Even if the Proprietors were willing to do this, why they would be swamped by the influence of the body of Directors, and there would be an end of the matter. He (Mr. Sergeant Gazelee) ;claimed it as a right, not to dictate to the Directors, but to give his opinion. They might treat his opinion with contempt. but all he asked and prayed for was, that they should do him the favour of listening to that opinion, which was fearlessly expressed. But let not the Proprietors be misled; the attempt was not to alter the constitution of the Court of Directors, but it was to advise in tht matter. He thought if the places were given away Attie more according to merit, and Jess according to nepotism, the Directors would come out of these matters with a great .deal more credit. and the Proprietors would not be laughed at. He be lieved the Chairman to be a most honourable man. He (Mr. Sergeant Gazelee) believed he had no sinister intention; but he said it was a little unfortunate that he led the Proprietors to believe that before the matte) was settled they should be called together, not to dictate. but to advise in the matter. All H es se PROPRIETOR said it might he in the recollection of the Chairman of the Court of Directors that he was present at the last meeting, and that le then made a suggestion after the Chairman's amend ment, was pleased to approve of, and stated whichthemseltvhee meeting yto adopt; and therefore he was now anxious, particularly if Mr. Hume should be present, to state his views of what really took place, which he was bound to state as an independent proprietor fully confirmed the report which the Secretary had been pleased to read. lie should be very brief in the observations he had to make, because really it could be stated in a minute. There was a motion made by Mr. Lewis, and seconded by some other gentleman, after which the Chairman immediately moved the adjourn ment of the Court, in the words reported, as neerly as possible, by the Chairman himself. There was then some discussion as to a matter of form only, and on that he (the Hon. Proprietor) suggested to Mr. Lewis and the seconder of the then motion to withdraw it.—(Hear, hear.) He made that suggestion, because the Chair man's amendment would then, as a matter of course, fall to the ground. What then took place? If, as Mr. Hume supposed, the Chairman bad made his amendment with the intention that the Di was it credible that the mover ribercetortshewpourilidprpierteopras7 the papers and lay them be and seconder would have immediately withdrawn their motion? They continued the discussion for some time aferwards. Therefore he (the I-ion. Proprietor) hoped, at least, after what he had stated, his Learned Friend, Mr. Sergeant Gazelee, would see he must have been altogether mistaken about the matter. Surely, after the statement now made, his Learned Friend would retract anything he had said harshly of the Chairman. 'He (the Hon. Proprietor) heel no interest in the matter further than to see that dis cussions of this kind among the Court of Directors and the bodylof Proprietors were conducted with decency and propriety.—(Hear.) It might be Mr. Sergeant Gazelee was a candidate for the directorship.—(Laughter.) He could not say wether that was so or not, but at present he (the Hon. Proprietor) thought he, Mr. Sergeant Gazelee, had rather confounded the two characters of proprietor and director. Mr. LEWIS thought the sooner the discussion was dropped the better; but there was one question which he wished to put to the Chairman. Mr. Clarke had asked the Chairman at the last meeting whether or not he had referred the question to Mr. Elphinstone? The meeting all knew that Mr. Elphinstone was a per son competent to decide that question, and therefore it was necessary to see what his opinion was, both as to the construction of the treaty, and as to the position of the parties. He (Mr. Lewis) wished to know whether the Chairman had done so? A PROPR;;;;;;IIIiiat it WBS a MOEt extraordinary thing that those who propounded the laws should have the power to explain them. It was for the judges to explain the laws, and not the Directors. The CHAIRMAN said when the Proprietors saw the papers they would see whether Mr. Elphinstone's name was mentioned or not. He could not answer the ques. tion further. Mr. LEWIS thought the Chairman would find that to be the opinion of the meeting. The public would be startled to think that this question had been argued without reference to Mr. Elphinstone, and that the thing had been concluded without his being consulted. Mr. flume's motion, that the papers be printed and circulated amongst the Proprietors, was then put to the meeting and carried. The Court then adjourned.- IMPERLAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Feb. 7. RELIEF OF DISTRESS (IRELAND). (Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.) . _ _ Mr. CHRISTOPHER said, as an English representative, he was not prepared to concur in the vote. When he consi dered the very short period that had elapsed since this coun try granted eight millions of money for the relief of the Irish people, a very small part of which had been repaid, and of which he predicted a very small portion would return to:the Treasury—and when he saw that our:workhouses were being rapidly filled with able-bodied paupers, he protested against the House being annually called upon to sanction votes of this character. In the south of England the condi tion of the poor was as miserable as it was in any part of Ireland, and he would ask, was it right or fair that the over-taxed people of England should have to make a further grant, more especially when it was taken into consideration that in Ireland there was no income-tax and no assessed taxes ? He would rather support the amendment than the orignal motion ; but he protested against the vote altogether, and he trusted the House would now lay down the principle that the Irish people ought to maintain their own poor.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. F. FRENCH said, notwithstanding the strong lan guage used by the Hon. Member who had just sat down, he felt convinced that the House would not shrink from its duty in granting relief to the poor of Ireland. But, although he felt grateful to the Chancellor of the Exchequer for the solicitude he had expressed on their behalf, and for the ready manner in which he had come forward, he believed that the proposition was in itself wrong, and was calculated to take away the energy and self-denial of the people. The re sources of the country were amply sufficient, if developed, to enable the people of Ireland to maintain their own poor, and what he contended ought to be done was, to pass some measure to bring about such a result. By making advances for the cultivation and improvement of the land the ener gies of the people might be stimulated, and the resources of the country fully brought out. Sir J. WAILSH said the House had been called upon to vote upon no question which involved considerations of greater pain and difficulty than did that on the pre sent occasion. —(Hear.) When they had a deficient revenue, and when many classes were involved in deep distress, and were struggling under great privations, it was the bounden duty of representatives to exercise the strictest vigilance before they acceded to this vote. What assurance had they after their repeated sacrifices on behalf of Ireland that the condition of the country would be improved, and that they would not be called upon again to pursue the same line of conduct and vote further sums of money? He was convinced that no good could ever be done unless there should be a revision of the principle of the poor-law, and that that principle should be approached in a spirit of conviction that great mistakes bad been made in the constitution of the Irish poor-law. The Irish law had, he felt assured, been productive of only one decided effect, and that effect was the pauperization of the whole of the country. He could not understand how the Hon. Member for Stroud (Mr. P. Ecrope) had arrived at his conclusions. It seemed, indeed, most strange to him that the charging the arrears of the poor-laws upon the land could have any other effect than that of continually depre ciating the property which was the most stable in its cha racter and most permanent in its value.—(Hear, hear.) To him it appeared perfectly clear that the more they imposed burdens upon land already allowed to be wrought out of all profit, and on which there was now evidently no stock to distrain, the more difficulties they would have to encounter. What, then, was this grant? Why, nothing more than a vain attempt to bolster up this system which contained within itself, without any further admixture, the seeds of its own destruction. (The Hon. Baronet then read from the evidence of the late Committee a number of instances to show that he was borne out in his assertion that the system had only been hitherto productive of evil.) They were doling out little insignificant sums which were fitted to postpone a conclusion, but which were in fact only instrumental in aggravating the mischief of the end at which they were sure to arrive if they continued this poor-law in Ireland.—(Hear.) Heavily as the resources of England were taxed, and necessary as it was to economise the means at their command to the utmost, he did believe that it would be not only a wise policy but the truest economy to advance such a sum as would at once rescue that unhappy land from the distress in which it was immersed. But convinced that such a paltry pittance, sufficient to con tinue what he belived to be a great evil, but totally inade quate to permanently deliver a fine country from any of those miseries to which they had been so long subjected—thinking this to be the case, he felt compelled to throw upon the Go vernment the whole of the responsibility of this unwise and impolitic attempt, and should give the measure all the oppo sition in his power.— (Hear, hear.) Lord EDWARD HOWARD said that as the representa tive of a borough in a district which was not only purely agricultural as to its character, but also singularly poor in its circumstances, he felt compelled to say a few words upon the subject before the House. He did not intend to enter upon the details which had already been so largely dealt in from all sides of the Rouse, and especially from those gentlemen who came from Ireland— such a contrariety of state ment, that no reliance could possibly be placed upon merely barren assertions. But, taking the broad principle of the necessity of relief where urgent and immovable distress ex isted, when he saw Hon. Gentlemen on the opposite side of the House deprecating that relief, he was obliged to contra dict the declaration, that Ireland was continually coming as a beggar to that House to help it out of its distress. During the last winter, in his district, the ut most want had been endured, but it had been endured with a tranquillity and calmness which was equally honourable to the peasantry and those who were above them. He wished to be no advocate for rebellion—he was no apo logist for insurrection ; but of this he must warn the House, that this tranquillity might be tried too long. The Irish might be idle—and he was, with all regret, compelled to say so, that they were idle in their own country—but was it not notorious that they were proportionably industrious and able elsewhere? He was always convinced that in order to get out of any man a fair day's work they must give him something to work upon.—(Cheers.) Let them remember that patience might be tried too long, and that if driven by distress there was a possibility that more money would be required to pay the troops and support the police, than was now asked for to save the people from starvation.—(hear, hear.) He be lieved that a new era had arisen upon Ireland, and that the landlords had commenced upon a new plan of proceeding, and that the money now sought for would be well and judi ciously expended.—(Cheers.) Mr. HUME (who had previously risen), said that he did not regret that he had given way to the Noble Lord, but he must remind the Noble Lord that the money which had formerly been advanced for the relief of the distress in Ire land had notoriously been applied to the very purpose which he now so much deprecated—for the purpose of re bellion.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) He did not blame the landlords of Ireland. There was no class of men whose posi tion he more deeply * sincerely commiserated, and whose position he verily believed had been occasioned in a great measure, if not entirely, by the false legislation of this country. Some of the landlords might not have done their duty, but, upon the whole, lie believed they were not so culpable as they had been represented.—(Hear, hear.) No man had lifted his voice more frequently or more strenuously against this bad legislation than he had, and he would not on that account have opposed this grant. But he opposed it on principle, and he was firmly convinced that the advance of money from this country had no other effect than that of dislocating all the bonds of society. He opposed this grant on principle, because whenever relief was proposed it had always been declared that remedial measures should accompany every such grant. Those remedial measures had not been introduced, and therefore he opposed, and always should oppose, any such grant.—(Hear, hear.) He opposed it on principle, for the first step was the great mischief. Evil only had followed from these grants. What he wanted was that Ireland should support her own poor. What was the case? Why he found that the average rating of Ireland was only, during the last year, 2s. 9d. in the pound, while he himself lived in a parish (Whittlebury, in Sorfolk, we un:lerstood) in which the rating for the poor was treble that amount. To Ireland the amount granted last year in aid of the poor-rates was 231,431/. In Ulster the assessment had been is. 10d., while the money collected had only been ls. Bd. ' • in Munster the assessment had been 3e. 10 d., and the money collected 3s. 2d. ; in Leinster the assessment was 2s. 4d., the amount collected 3s. 2d.; and in Connaught the assessment was ss. 7d., while the money collected was barely two shillings. Granting first one sum after another was plainly not of the slightest benefit to the people of Ireland, but was, on the contrary, far more injurious than beneficial, tending only to demoralise the people, and impoverish the whole country. They must remember that they were but stewards of the public money, and that it was their positive duty to resist the motion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Mr. A. STAFFORD, after paying a handsome compliment to Lord Edward Howard for his speech, said that before that Noble Lord complained of the conduct of the Gentlemen on his side of the House he should re collect what their conduct had been. Since he came into the House he had taken the trouble to cast up the statements, and he found that thirty-one unions in Ireland were in great difficulty, and twenty in a state of absolute bankruptcy. These twenty unions contained not less a population than a million and a half.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member (Mr. Hume) had amalgamated the rates in the provinces of Ulster and Connaught, and had produced a result which gave no idea of the average amount of rating in Ireland. It reminded him of an anecdote told of an old gentleman, 70 years old, who made an offer of marriage to a young lady of 20. She objected on the score of age, " but," said the old gentleman, " when we are united, our average age will be 45."—(Laughter.) He had no hesitation in stating that every grant of this kind would propitiate instead of alleviating the miseries of Ire land. —(Hear. hear.) The area of taxation was at the root f all evils in Ireland, and until they considered that subject, And with the view to an alteration in the poor-law, they might grant loans to double the amount of the national debt without producing any good effect.—(Cheers.) Sir W. SOMERYILLE alluded to the opinions expressed by Hon. Members, and said they might turn and twist the question as they chose, but they could not prevent them selves coming to the conclusion that the grant was neces sary if they wished to preserve the lives of the people. lie believed that not one of the remedies propounded to-day, if it had been adopted at an earlier period, would have pre vented the Government from coming down to the House and making the proposition now under discussion.—(Hear.) Ireland was, at this moment, suffering under the greatest calamity which could befal any country—the article of food upon which the chief part of the population subsisted had been destroyed for three consecutive years.— (Hear, hear.) Then, under these circumstances, what were they to do? The evils of Ireland could not be remedied all of a sudden; the process, whatever it might be, must neces sarily be of long duration, and if temporary aid was not given in the meantime the destruc tion of a vast amount of human life would be the consequence. If loans were given upon the repro ductive system, as recommended by the Hon. Member for Stroud, he believed that a much greater amount of money would be required than was anticipated by the House. He would state one fact, and lesve the House to draw its own conclusion from it—viz that under the Labour Relief Act as many as 700,000 able- , bodied persons were under the em ploy and pay of the Government, and if the reproductive plans proposed were carried out, it might with great reason be expected that the persons seeking relief would be treble that number.—(Hear, hear.) Whatever result might be ar rived at, he trusted that, at all events, the amendment would not be assented to. He believed, if the generosity of the House did not step in, a loss of life would ensue which would be dreadful to contemplate. But he felt, however, perfectly convinced that the Members of that House, and the British people out of doors, would not offer any opposition to the resolution proposed by his Right Hon. Friend.—( Hear. ) Mr. HERBERT said if the House rejected the motion It would, in fact, amount to a sentence of death upon a great number of people. Ho had spent ten days upon a relief Committee in Ireland in endeavouring to bring about some unity of action among the landlords of that country, but he found that it was utterly impossible to accomplish that object while the area of taxation remained as it was. In fact, that was at the root of most of the evils in that country, and whilp that reMainsd 411 plans of relief would end in no permanent benefit.—(Hear.) Mr. Z. 13. AQUI= aupp9rted the paytiort of tlzo Chancellor of the Exchequer, not because it was the best remedy for .-Ireland, but because- it was -the only immediate remedy proposed for the relief of the existing distress. The simple question was whether a large body of people in a bankrupt district of Ireland, without food and without any means of support, were to have any assistance afforded to them, and if the proposition of her Majesty's Government were not passed the responsibility would be on the shoulders of those who rejected it.—(Hear, hear.) Sir G. GREY said that if the Hon. Member for North amptonshire (Mr. Stafford) had come down to the House with any sufficient data respecting the area of taxation, they might, with some probability of being effective, have brought in a Bill for regulating the areas of the townlands ; but he might state what he had said the other night, that this was not the subject before the House at all. The report which had been received related only to a small part of the country, and there was, in fact, a power under the poor-law as at present constituted to re gulate these areas. He, therefore, thought that the Honourable Member had no t ac t e d w i t h hi s usua l f a i rness. With regard to the vote proposed for the purpose of assist ing bankrupt unions in Ireland, he felt bound to say that, looking to the sums of money collected as rates last year in that country--namely, 1,600,000/. the property of Ireland was doing its duty in supporting the poverty of that country. The present grant was asked for the purpose of assisting those unions where the utmost amount of rate was levied, and where vast numbers must perish, except assistance was given. Mr. HERBERT explained that he only alluded to his own union. Sir J. GRAHAM said, that looking at the circumstances which had been proclaimed on the official responsibility of the Government, he felt convinced that the grant which had been proposed was inevitable.—(Hear, hear.) To the propositions of the Hon. Member for Stroud ( Mr. P. Scrope) he decidedly objected. He objected, in the first place, to the grant being made in the shape of a loan, because he firmly believed that it would be alto gether impossible to reclaim the money, and would be only loading Ireland with additional burdens to those which she was now found quite incompetent to bear. He objected to the second proposition, that the money should be applied to works of reproductive labour, be cause he found it on the records of the gentle men who had supplied the reports on which the Government were acting that the destitution was great and irremediable, and that the potato crop had failed this season to a greater extent than even during the last two years. He gave her Majesty's Ministers credit for the sin cerity of their assertions, he believed that they were soundly informed, and the attempt to apply such a prin ciple would be neither more nor less than a sentence of death against multitudes. Then, again, they had the experience of a place not very f a r rom that ' of the disadvantage of nltional workships.—(Hear, hear.) For these reasons he should decidedly oppose the amendment then before the House. Yet, while voting for the proposition of the Govern ment, he must decidedly say that it was the last time he would vote for any such grant.—(Cries of " Oh, oh," and " Hear, hear.") The very last time; for, as remedy was to be their rule, he thought the time was fully come when it was their imperative duty to review the whole system of the local taxation of Ireland. The last time he should say, because he believed that Ireland, with her resources, was fully capable of supporting her own poor. When he 'recollected the different circumstances in which that country was placed, when he re membered that Ireland was free from any tax on property, that Ireland was free from any of the assessed taxes, that with a, perhaps, too improvident readiness, duties to the amount of 120,0001. a year had been remitted on spirits manufactured in Ire land, he did feel that if the poor-rate was insufficient a rate in aid was inevitable, and that that rate must be collected in Ireland.—(Hear, hear, and cheers. ) For these reasons he should oppose the amendment of the Hon. Member for Stroud, and vote for the grant proposed by her Majesty's Ministers. Mr. - FAT;AN supported the motion. He was surprised that any Member of the House of Commons should ob ject to the vote, which was so imperiously called for ; and he was especially surprised at the course that had been pursued" by the Hon. Member for Montrose. He felt convinced that the vote proposed would not be ade quate for the purposes intended, but he was glad to see that Ministers were taking steps in the right direction. Mr. DISRAELI trusted that Ministers would not call upon the House this evening to give a vote upon this subject. He trusted that the Noble Lord would rise in his place and appoint another day for the further discussion of this question, as sufficient time had not been given to consider it properly. He could not agree with the statement that had be made by the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Dorsetshire, that this would be the last vote they would be called upon to give with reference to this subject.—(Hear, hear.) If the Government would state that this was the last vote that would be taken on the subject, he had no doubt that they would come to a satisfactory conclusion. The Chan cellor of the Exchequer had made his statements from manuscript, and that was a reason why further time should be given to consider the subject. Whatever others might consider of this grant, it was his opinion that the question involved in it was, not only whether the people of England should pay their own poor-rates but those of the people of Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) He trusted the Noble Lord at the head of the Government would appoint an early day for the further consideration of this important subject. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that the consideration that had been stated by the Honourable Gentleman the Member for Buckingham that the papers connected with this proposition had been only till very lately in the hands of Members, was a reason why the further consideration of this vote should be postponed.—(Hear, hear.) On the othor hand, he begged to state that, it had been considered by her Majesty's Government to be their duty to state to the House, as early as possible, what it was their intention to do on the important subject.—(Hear, hear.) With regard to the subject itself he thought the Honourable Gentle man had hardly stated the question fairly to Ireland, when he stated that it was a question whether the people of England were to pay the poor-rates of Ireland as well as those of their own country. When the matter came on again, he should be prepared to state more in detail his opinions on the subject, but he could not say that this would be the last vote the House would be called upon to give on this snb ject.—(Hear, hear.) As a Minister of the Crown, he would not bind himself to any such assertion.—(Hear, hear.) Nor would he say that a comprehensive measure had been prepared to obviate the necessity for applying to Parliament for any further grant being asked for.—(Hear, hear.) He would keep himself free upon that subject —(Hear, hear) because circumstances might occur that would render it imperative upon him to ask for further aid.—( Hear, hear.) This, however, he would say, that her Majesty's Government had considered what amendments should be made to the poor-law, and when the Committee met on the poor-law he should be prepared to state his views and opinions to that Committee.—(Hear.) He would not say that those opinions might not be modified by the suggestions of Hon. Members for Ireland, but when he knew the determination of the Committee, he would propose to*the House what he thought necessary on the subject.—(Hear, hear.) He considered this vote necessary, and he felt no doubt the House would sanction it.—(Hear.) He had no objection to postpone the consideration of this question to Friday next, as he could appoint no other day at present to consider it. ( Hear, hear.) The debate was then adjourned. The House then resumed, and the further consideration was postponed until Friday. INCUMBRANCES ON LANDED PROPERTY IN IRELAND. On the motion of Mr. SADLEIR, it was ordered that the return of the final decrees for the sale of landed property in Ireland, pronounced within the last five years by the Irish Court of Chancery or Equity Exchequer, and of the amount of incumbrances reported due in each cause, and for the pay • ment of which a sale of the lands decreed, or a portion thereof, has been effected, and the amount for which same were sold, and of the amo , int of the purchase money paid out of court to parties in discharge of incumbrances reported due (ordered on the 3d day of July, 1848), be made out forthwith. THE SUN, LONDON, THURSDAY EVE INC-, FEBRUAitY 8, 180. COUNTY TREASURERS' ACCOUNTS. On the motion of Mr. FREWEN, a return of the abstracts of the accounts of the several country treasurers in England and Wales for the years ending Michaelmas 1847, and Mi chaelmas 1848 (in a similar form to the return presented, and ordered to be printed by the House of Commons, on the 22d day of May, 1848, Paper No. 348) was ordered. THE CONSTABULARY FORCE. _ _ On the motion of Mr. FREWEN, a return, showing the number of police constables in each county or division of a county in England and Wales, under the Act 2 and 3 Vic„ c. 93, for the year 1848 (in continuation of the return moved for last session) was ordered. THE IRISH POOR-LAW. Colonel DUNNE moved for a return showing the value of each townland, of each electoral division, of each union in Ireland ; the population of each townland, and the rate struck iu each electoral division, in which said townland is situate, during each year since the commencement; and the numbers relieved, both in-door and out-door; specifying the numbers of able-bodied, and those dependent on them, who have re ceived relief in each case and in each year. The report was ordered, and the Louse adjourned at Six o'clock. POLICE INTELLIGENCE. M AR Y L EB UNE. Robert Frost, a guard on the Great Western Railway, was placed at the bar before Mr. Broughton, for final examination, charged with having stolen a quantity of haberdashery, &c., from a package which was left at the Reading station on the 25th ult., and also with having stolen valuable property belonging to the Earl of Craven from a package which, amongst a number of others, was on the 10th November last sent to the Shrivenham Sta• tion, to be conveyed to his Lordship's seat, Combe Abbey, near Coventry. Mr. Justine, from the office of Maples and Co., solici tors, Old Jewry, and Mr. Collard, superintendent of the railway company's police, attended as before on the part of the prosecution. Mr. Justins called additional witnesses in support of the charge, and addressed the magistrate upon the whole of the facts adduced in the course of the inquiries which had been gone into, and he trusted that enough had been shown against the prisoner to justify his worship in send ing him before a jury. Mr. Collard remarked that four other trains, of which prisoner was guard, had lately been robbed of property. - The Prisoner was asked if he had anything to say, when a solicitor, by whom he was defended, said, "He has nothing to say in exculpation of himself as to what he is charged with now, but I am instructed by him to state that he means to criminate another of the com pany's officers, who is not present." Mr. BROUGHTON observed that he would have an op portunity of doing so at the Old Bailey, and committed him for trial. We have been requested to state that the prisoner is not Robert Miles Frost, in the service of the Great Western Railway: the latter bears a most excellent character, is respectably connected in Devonshire, and is now at the railway station. WORSHIP-STREET. Anne Mallandine, a squalid and wretched-looking young woman, in an advanced state of pregnancy, w as placed at the bar before Mr. Hammill, charged with having attempted to murder her son, a boy seven years of age, by throwing him into the Regent's Canal, and also to destroy herself. Mr. John Stoddart, a clerk in the service of an ex tensive builder, named Palmer, at Haggerstore, stated that he was standing outside his employer's counting house, within a few yards of the canal, at four o'clock on the preceding afternoon, when he observed the pri soner grasping her boy tightly by the hand and forcing him across the towing-path in the direction of the water. The little fellow, who was evidently much ter rified, appeared struggling to release himself, and re peatedly called out, " Don't, mother, don't," but the pri soner continued to drag him on till they ruched the edge of the bank, when she suddenly caught him up in her arms, and flung him into the canal. The prisoner then rapidly divested herself of hor shawl, and was in the act of untying her bonnet, when witness rushed for ward and seized her, end a friend having come up at the moment, he consigned her to his charge. He then hastened to the side of the canal, and finding that the boy was completely exhausted with his struggles, which had carried him some distance from the bank, witness instantly plunged into the water, and having fortunately reached him as he was on the point of sinking, succeeded in getting him out, and directed his instant removal to en adjoining public-house, where he speedily recovered from tht , effects of the immersion. On questioning the prisoner as to her motive for such a n unnatura l act , s he replied that her son and herself were both starving, and had not broken their fat since the preceding morning- The prisoner was thereupon given into custody, and the poor boy was removed to the workhouse. - A lad - named John Wilding corroborated the forego ing evidtlice, aid added that the prisoner in the first instance endeavoured to lure the boy to the bank, by showing him some ducks that were swimming in the water; but as he hung hack in evident anticipation of her design, she at once resorted to the forcible means described by the last witness to of her inhuman object. Police-constable Heath, N 428, stated that upon taking her into custody, the prisoner expressed her re gret that the assistance aff,rded by the witnesses bad not arrived a few minutes later, as she would then have been spared the trouble of going before a magistrate or anybody else. On being asked if she wished to say anything, the prisoner, who was dreadfully agitated, replied in a faint voiee in the negative. _ Mr. HAMNILL directed the depositions to be at once made out, and after eulogising the intrepid and praise worthy conduct of Mr. Stoddart, which had been the means of saving two lives, ordered the prisoner to be committed to Newgate for trial. THE COUNTRY MARKETS. LEEDS, FEB. 6.—We are well supplied with wheat; the market is firm at Friday's rates. Barley does not vary from last week. Beans steady. Oats and other articles without material alteration. Average prices of grain : —wheat, 3,110 qrs, 46s Id ; barley, 1,543 qrs, 293 Id ; oats, 86 qrs, 18s 4d ; beans, 125 qrs, 303 81; peas, 20 qrs, 445. NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE, FEB. 3.—At our market this morning we had a large show of wheat from the growers, and the condition being generally poor, no advance on last week's prices was obtainable ; but foreign, on the contrary, was in improved request, and realised an enhancement of 1s per qr. For flour we experienced a heavy demand. Rye unaltered. Choice malting barley commands a fair steady sale, and for Chevalier, weighing 53 1 / 2 1b per bushel, 32s per quarter visa obtained. Foreign qualities, on the other hand, meet little attention. Malt dull, though no cheaper. Beans and peat without change. Oats ruled dull, choice qualities sustained previous quotations. WISBECH, FEB. 3.—We continue to be fairly supplied with grain of all kinds. Our growers have been holding back the last two or three weeks in anticipation of higher prices, end to-day they tried hard to effect an advance, which they acconv 'dished, of Is to 2s per quarter on the best dry wheat, and 1 5 on other sorts; but the advance was generally, and very wisely, resisted by the trade. Other grain as before. GLOUCESTER.—Our market for wheat was more animated on Saturday than it has been for several weeks past. English samples were sought after, and eagerly purchased at former rates; in a few instances good foreign samples sold at an provement of is per quarter. The sale of barley and oats was dull, at barely last week's rates. Beans are difficult to dispose of, and the turn in favour of buyers. WORCESTER.—We had a short supply of wheat from the farmers on Saturday, and it met with a free sale at an advance of Is to 2s per quarter. Barley unaltered, with a trifling demand. DUBLIN, FEB. 6.—There was a very lively market in both native wheat and oats, at an advance of 6d to is on the former , and 3d on the latter. Foreign wheat, though in fair denaandt obtained no sensible advance. Indian corn dull, but held at full prices. BELFAST, FEB. s.—We had on Friday an advance of 6d to 9d on wheat, and 2d to 3d on oatmeal ; since then the supplies have been small, and yet fully the half of the advance thee noted has been lost. There is, however, more firmness in the market generally than for a length of time past, and in store lots there is more doing. Wheat, 8s 6d to lOs 4d; barley, 5° to 6s 6d; oats, 5s 3d to 6s 3d ; oatmeal, 9s 9d to lOs 4d per cwt. Indian corn sells at 71 12s 6d to 81 per ton for yellow and 7i 7s 6d to 71109 for white. Coax, Fax. s.—Flour—Firsts 14s 6d to 15s 6d; extra 165; sceonds 13s 6d to 14s 6d ; households I is to 13s ; thirds 8s to lOs, per cwt. Meal—O a t mea l 11 s t o ll s 6 4 ; Indian meal 8s • wheat meal lis per cwt. Indian corn 7. to 7/ lOs per ton. Br° 51 per ton. Hay Farmers 16s Od to 40s Od ; average 36 9 ; dealers 36s to 445; average 00s Od per ton. Straw—Farmers 18s Od to 26s Od; average 20s; dealers 30s 04 to 355 0 d; average 00s Od per ton. Bread—Wheaten flour 7d to 70; household loaf 6d to 6id per 41b. Coals—Newport 17s; Lydney 18s ; Landore 17s; best Neath Culm 16s per too. Tallow 46s 6d per cwt. Whiskey, 25 o. p., 6s Od per impe; rial gallon. Meat—Beef 4d to 7d; Mutton 5d to bid; ves` si r d to 7d; pork 4d to sid ; bacon 7d to 8d ; sausages 6d per lb. Hops 6/ 10s per cwt. Bangor slates 31 2s 6d to 315 s per ton. Bark—Barbary 61 to 71; Valonia 11/ to 131; French 61; English 61 per ton. Fleece Wool 105 to 12s per atone. Hemp Hemp 35/ per ton. Fish— S co t c h h err i ngs 1 8s to 00 e ; red ditto 25s to 27s per barrel ; Newfoundland 11/ to 12/ 105 Per ton. Timber—New Memel 4! lOs ; old scarce ; red pine Iss ; yellow pine 31 p er t on ; d ea l s , fi rst qua li ty, 20' ; s econa quality 17/ per 120. Hides—Market Its to 16s; salted 11s to 16s per cwt ; calf skins 2id to lid ; market 2Ad to 20 per lb. Guano--Peruvian 10/ lOs ; Ichabos 91 per ton. Potatoes! White 10d to 12d ; Minions 18d to 00d. Tar—Archangel 18.3 per brl. COAL MARKET Carr's Hartley Hasting's Hartley lss Od Original Tanfield lls Od Ord's Redheugh South Peareth Infield Moor Fantleld Moor Butes l2s 6d Walker's Primrose Wall's End, &c Hedworth Hedley . .. 13s 3d Northumberland Wharneliffe Lyons l4s 6d Hetton Haswell l6s 3d F.-YESTERDAY. Lambton Stewart's Whitwell ... Hudson's Hartlepool l4s Od_, Thornley ...... 14 s 0 1 frimdon .. ......... ... 13s 64 ' Adelaide Tees Seymour Tees South Durham l4s 3 1 Tees West Cornforth Cowpen Hartley ‘ T' A Hartley —...... Howard's W. H. Neth. 15s (m_, Sidney's Hartley Ships at market, 193. RAILWAY 6HAILE MARKETS. BRISTOL, FEB. 7. STOCK EXCHANGE.—The market was both firmer and better. Great Western, 171. Shares, dis.—Taff Vale, Quarters, 27 die. LIVERPOOL, FEB. 7. STOCK EXCHANGE.—The sales are—Bolton, Blackburn, Clithero e Z and West Yorkshire, No. 1, 5 4—Ditto, Freferenee, guaranteed per cent. (B), 16%—Birkenhead, Lancashire, and Cheshire, 31 Shares, 9/.Bs. 9d. dis.—Caledonian, Preference, 7 p er cent., 1% P._ , Great Northern, 9/. 6s. 3d. dis.—Ditto (B Sh ares ) , 6 per cent., • 3d. dis.— Lancashire and Yorkshire, Quarters, 3% dis.—Ditl: Fifths, 2/. Is. 3d. dis.—Dl, to, 321. Sh ares (late Extension), 5% " I —Ditto, Fifths (late West Ridi ng U n i on ) , 3% dis.—London 01?., North-Western, 139 —Ditto, Fifth s , 7% p. — D i tto, New Qaarte m 51. 13s. 9d. p.—Manchester, Sheffield, and Lincolnshire, Eighths, 61 —Ditto, 10/, Preference, 11%5—Ditto, Quarters, 64 dis.—midlo. l Stock, 95 1 / 4 —Ditto, New H a lf Sh ares, 3% dis.—North Stafford shire, 2% dis.—Shrews ,ury an d Bi rmingham, 9/. 12s. 3d. Shared (B), dis.—Shrewsbury and Cheste r (l ate N . W . 31.), 1% p. 1, South- Eastern and Dover, 25% —Dit to, N o. 4, Thirds, 7% c._yor. , 3 Newcasle, and Berwick (Extensi on , N o. 1) , 2 % p.—Ditto B. Extension), No. 2, 24 p. - Ditto (G. N. E. Purchase), 6 per cell" guaranteed, 1% p.—Dutch Rhenish, 61. 6s. 3d. dis. 31ANCBESTER, FEB. 7. STocir EXCHANGE.—The sales are—South-Eastern and Dover. 4, 7%—Great Northern (A), 4% n.—Manchester and Birmingh a 's; Q :afters (C), 3 13-16 p.—West Ridi ng U n i on, 3% dis.—.l4°2.* Staffordshire, 2 11-16 dis.—Huddersileid and Manchester, 27%4 Caledonian, Preference, 1% p. — Manchester and Birminghaln and B), 3 9-16 p. --Shrewsbury and Birmingham, Preference, 9 h,d Leeds, Fifths, 1% dis.— London, New Quarters, Quarters, No. 1, 6 dis.—Ditto, Preference, 11%—Great Norther n ' 9% dis.—Cheshire Junction, 9 j c. dis. BIRM I!ATIr HAM, FEB. 7. STOCK EXCHANGE.—AIthough there was little business done tO' day prices were fully maintained. The only quotations were"' North Staffordshire, 2% die.—Shrewsbury and Birmingham (0 3 dis.--bouth Staffordshire, 2.% dis. YaK, FEB. 6. STOCK EXCIIANGE.—The busine•s transacted to-day was M 1 01- lows :—Great Northern, 91. 7s. —York, Newcastle, and Berwick (E I : U . tension), No. 1, 21%—Ditt o , N u. 2 (late New Berwicks), 217 , 8 —P it " - (G. N. E. Purchase), 91. Bs. 9,1. HULL, FEB. 7, STOCK EXCHANGE.-The sales are -East Anglian (L. and E1y , ,„ 11. and Drm.), 4.- North B r iti s h , Quarters, 775. 6c1.-Ditto, Extensw (Scrip), 65.-Ditto, Thirds, 4j. -North Staffordshire, 12%. GLASGOW, FEB. 6. STOCK ExctiAticE. - The following are to-day's transactions - Caledonian, Preference, Si 188.-Edinburgh and Northern, Glasgow, Dumfries, and Carlisle, 5--Glasgow, Kiltnarnock, and AP: 50 j -Ditto, Halves, No. 1, 61. N.-Glasgow and Greenock, Prefer ence, VA -Glasgow Harbour Mineral, 12s. 6d. [ADVERTISEMENT.]—Cure of a Liver and Stomach Complaint by Holloway's Pills.—Sergeant Wilton Ist° of the Hon. East India Company's service and for nearly, 25 years employed o n th e B enga l esta bli s h men t , su ff e red most intensely from an affection of the liver, indigestiol i f and sickness of the stomach, which appeared to be ra" pidly undermining his constitution, notwithstanding th l treatment of some of the m o st em i nent o f t h e me dica l profession. On his return to this country he was ads vised to take Holloway's Pills, and this superior Met"' cine has effected such a perfect cure that it has astr, nished all that were aware of his former apparensu hopeless case.—Sold by all Vendors of niedicine, throughout the civilized world and at Professor H oll°. way's Establishment, 244, Strand, London. BIRTHS. On the 3d inst., at Calbourne Rectory, Isle of Wight, the wife of the Rev. R. Snmner, of a daughter. At Peterstield, H an t s , on the Sd inst., the wife of the A lots F. M. Cunningham, of a daughter. On the 4th inst., at Ventnor, Isle of Wight, the wife of ' 4 ' Hambrough, Esq., of a son. On the sth inst., at Brook-street, the lady of T. Thom Esq., of a daughter. On the sth inst., th e w if e o f F . M ayhew, Esq., of rihaP cote-villas, Adelaide-road, of a daughter. On the sth inst., at the Pulteney Hotel, Albemarle-str eet' the Lady Anna Gore Langton, of a daughter. On the 6th inst., in Old Bond-street, the wife of Willia m B. Call, Eso., of a son and heir. On the 6th inst., at St oc k we l l-place, Clapham-road, DU* Crofts, of a daughter. MARRIED. On the Ist inst., a t C hr i stchurch, Warminster, W ilts to D. Thomas, E q., of Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorganshir e ' Mary, youngest daughter of the late J. Trehearne, EA" the same place. „S On the 6th i nst., at Mitcham Church, the Rev. Ge•tay Robinson, rector of Bisley, Surrey, ro Jane Eleanor, ° daughter of 13. Miller Esq., of Collier's-wood, Surrey!...„...o lED. Ole On th e 24th ult., at Bic D ester Vicarage, Oxon, frai l ,. sit bursting of his gun, Charles James J o h n , third son ° L William F. Elli o tt, B ar t., o f S to b s and Wells, aged 1 6 ' a 79, On the 31st u lt.. a t B runsw i c k -terrace, Hackney, ag.eorf the Rev. Loui s A me di us A nspach, for many years Inissly at Harbour Grace, Newfoundland. fof At Monmouth, on the 3d inst., Joseph Price, -DA' nearly half a century a magistrate for the county. m ost At North-end, Hampstead, on the 4th inst., Mary eldest (laughter of the 'Rev. P. J. Butt , , A.M. Sam uel the sth inst., at the Fen-office Ely, aged 69, -- Wells, Esq. of On the sth in s t., a t M e thl ey, Y or k sh i re, M ar y, relic t the Hon. William Leeson. 0 r . On the sth inst., at the Vicarage,Cripplegate, Mar-l- e of the late F. W. Blomber, D., aed 9z• le E liziv On the 6th inst., at Clare g mon D. t-terra g ce, Pentonvil beth Slaton Silver. of London: Printed and Published by MURDO 02• No. 112, Strand, Printer, at The Sun Office/ Nr of Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, in the CO Middlesex, Thursday, February.B, 1849- Tvr claz th e Ao3