The Sun. — London, England, 1815-02-21 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PA R LIAM ENT. , HOUSE OF LORDS, Ivl3,zp.‘y, FEB. 20, The House net at ten o'clock in the morning, and pro ceeded-on judicial business. !.; ur,e papers were presented from the Excise and Navy (Mir:, the former relating to the averages of Corn. On the motion of the Earl of Lauderdale, stone further Ac counts were ordered respecting Corn and Grain. SIR JOHN DOWNIE Earl BATtimisT stated, that he hail made the inquiry respecting Sir John Downie, alluded to on a-former night by a' Noble Martinis ("fans (101%110', and he found that Sir John had never 'received pay in the military service of this -coun iri, Ithrhad been employed in the Commissariat, for which he received pay, and now halt-pay, and hail afterwards entered the Spanish scrvice,where he NV :S highly useful. • He did not know whether Sir John Downie was with the,expedition destined 'by Spain for South America, but it would not be surprising if be had agreed to any proposition of that nature made bythe . Spanish Government, nor Was it to he wondered at that the latter Govern ment should'attach the greatest ipportance to such an expedition. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said, be was so far -satisfied with the explanation ; but he observed in tlie accounts that there was a considerable suini paid-to Sir John Downie for some purpose not specified.. Earl"BATuttsT stated, that Sir John Downie received money from this country for raising•a re giinent in Spain, in the same manner as the Spa nish Noblemen fora similar service. PELtVERING PP OF SPANIARDS AT Lord GRENVILLE adverted to a communication which he had received iu the course of the. Sam pler, stating that four Spaniard's who had taken refuge at Gibraltar from the tyranny of their Go vernment, had been delivered up by the Governor, and which he had transmitted to his Noble Friend opposite. - He was persuaded that Ministers .en tertained the same sentiments of reprobation of that transaction with himself, and.that they would not hesitate to call upon the Spanish Government to liberate - these persons who had thus .heen •ille gaily surrendered, by the Governor of Gibraltar. He wished now to have some further information stated to the House upon the .subject. BATHURST entered into a detail of the cir ci: • respecting these individuals, relative . - :pitulation of 'Venezuela, and their being reizeci in defiance of the terms of the capitulation, (which have been already published). His Lordship observed, that these circumstances had softened-sonic of the indignation which be had originally felt, they being, it appeared, considered as state prisoners. His Majesty's Ministers, Lowever, deemed it their indispensible duty to instruct the Minister at Madrid to detn'and their liberation, bat he lamented to state that the re- Tresent.acir)as maole on this subject had hitherto teen lac fieCtual. .Lord GRENVILLE contended, that 'no circum -stances whatever could justify the transaction. TRANSFER OF GENOA. The Order'of the Day upon which their Lord shins were summoned being read, The Marquis of BUCK.INGHAM rose to bring for ward his promised !potion, for the production of ce] rain, official Documents relative to the subject. His Lordship prefaced it with a speech of consi derabiedength, in the.course of which he dilated upon those facts and arguments which he touched upon on a former evening, when he first called their Lordships attention to the measure . ; lie contended, that it involved the good faith and honour of the British Government and Nation, which had been 'voluntarily pledged in the .Most solemn manner to maintain and support the inde pendence and liberties of the Genoese, by a public Officer of high rank and authority. Notwith standing which these had been most shamefully sacrificed. •The Noble Marquis couchuled' by moving, " that Copies of the Proclaination ad eresed by Lord William •Benthick, the British Cominander in'Chief, to die Inhabitants of Ge ; and also that published afterwards by Lieu tenant-General, Dalrymple, preliminary to the transfer - of Genoa to the Sardinian GOvernment, together with extracts from the Instructions:sent from the Secretary of State to those Officers, touching the occupation and surrender of Genoa." On. the question, The Earl of, LIVEIIPOOL observed, that when what he had said on a former night upon this subject was recollected by their Lbrdships, they xvould see that his Majesty's Ministers were not in the slightest degree disposed to shrink from the discussion of 'this particular topic. On, the contrary, he had declared their li'ben the proper and regular Opportunity should zrrirc of not only fully discussing that, but every topic / connected with it, in the clearest and 40st:comprehensive manner; and conacquently, t',ey were willing to produce every possible in f,rinatiou.on the suhicet. At the present inn incut,- however, be felt it Ilk duty to oppos e the production of the papers Called: for on other , rounds, and which he had also referr e d t o in the first instaiv:c. Under the pr: sent eir o+onsti-nces, he Must deprecate ail partiA dis cussions, such as must be the consideration 01 sin 1e or separate topics ; as that referred to by the 7.NToble Marquis, and what Idl froth thcNoble this evening, evinced the 'particular topic co - ohl not he fully or hotly discussed, Without en;- tetHig into a detailed . eonsideration of many otbeis, al, ic:it it would ,be perrec..tly inconsistent. to do at iirent. He kVOURI P..pf.!ltt !bat % .,, heit tile proper ivie, and wTiich, itC th9ng - lit, 'was tot 1l f a lit, Li f pledged himself to prove, (hat not, oniv with respect to the particular mea. :rt: of Gcuoa, Jrat cvcry other cottuccfed with :t, there was not the snilllest breach of f•lith,on the' p.:trt the Government, or az..y ey.- r?ctations he!ti put that xv`ere not eventually real-, :1 - 1:(1, he 11. - r.iSt observe, that there were litany facts in . the of I.vhich the Noble 'Mar quis apfu-ared totally ignorcr.:t, and other eireoni stauevs in the t ransa ction which (he (licit - tot wean intentionally by him) tvere greatly perverted ; and he retplestej their Lord,hips only to suspend their i , olgment until the whole of thecase should be be fore them. Considering and feeling the subject in this light, he would propose to move the pre vit)us question on the - Subic INiatqui motion Lit Present, with tic intimation, that at the proper psriotl Le stiottld chtertnlbf produce the pap , !rs. TheAlritiou was snpported by the Nitirquis of Lansdo , *ne, tLe 11!:%e of :;ss.e., , t Loris King and (henyille ; antl opposed by Earl Buthurs.t and the Lord,Chancellor. After a reply from the 'Alatluis of BackinOatu, the House divided— Contents Not Ccmtents 1 3 Nl:ijority ag,titast tlie'Motioa Adiournerl till to-morrow. ..• -24 HOUSE OF COMMONS Petitions were presented against the renewal of the Pro pert' Tax, ii so the Comity of N,rthampton the. Iluneircd of Chatham, the County of Norfolk, the 1011ahitants of Blackburn, the- County of Aberfle,n, the Inhabitants of L'ithlt•fortl, and , tie Borough of Leeds. • • Charles Barclay, Esq. the hew Alembcr for Southwark, took the oaths and his ,eat. Petitions for an alteration in the Corn Laws were presented from Louhborough, Hertford, and Itosconnnon. ,Nlr. 11. Addington presented a Copy Ayf the Commission of Inquiry into the Coprts of Chancery and iiing's Bench in Ireland. Mr. Chambers. from.tbi Court of Kin's Bench, prsent eda Ittauin of the number of Bailable Writs under the sura of 9.0/. COpies of the Report of the Lords 'Cominissioners ap pointed to examine_ nto the. different Courts,.were ordered to he printed. _ Mr. Houghton, from the Irish Treasury, presented an Ac coma. of the F.Ntablishnient of the Treasury and I.:xi:ln-goer inlreland,' and also of all Fees paid th-rein ; which . wasm-- dered to he printed. • M'r..111 , ,,NN ET 1 . gave notice, that he should on to-morrow mov e fur a Committee to inquire into the state of the Fleet, Bet ' r!li, and Marsha!sea Pris ons . It Sir S. OMILLY cave notice of his intention to submit some motion with respect to i the disembodying of the Militia, • on Tuesday -next: Mr. GRENFELL moved for 'Returns .of the quantity of Copper exported and imported from the year 181() to 15; i. Ma. WHITBREAD gave notice that, on Wednesday se'a night, be should move eta .-Iddres: to his Royal Ilighne3s the krioce liegent, on the comlnet of General Smith and.. Sir d. I)uatr. He trusted that the Hon. the,Chniteellov of the Exchclo,er would inimediatel" . Mahe imptiry'a.s . ..t7.:Certaidia: pers tvlah tended 10 001 Ci t e the subjtet, au,l would be in the Foi - eign (Mice in a tew hours.. COIN LAWS. • _ __— Mt. BARING moved the -readifi;.; of the Order X the Day, fur the House going into a l.;iiiumittee on the torn Laws,--- . His objekt pNe resent-w; to declare'that, instead of pro posing some counter Resolutilms at. -this period, he 'should submit an Amendment on Wednesday next, for the purpose of. olitaining a Resolution, in the first instance, that the restriction shOuld be but..temporary, and, that _it should ,be gradually relaxed in its orratiOn,' according to the circuits . stances of the times. - NEW TAXES. '., - . •:. . " • - • • • rile House havin g resolved itself, on the Motion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, into a Committee of Way§ and Means, .. - --, . The'CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUIqt inoeed, th a t several Aceonnts of.Pnbii e Recentie, presented doing the List and present Sessions of Parillinent, and the s , lth - .of the Kin; chap. 75, for continuing. the War Duties bf Cusroxits and Excise, be referred to the Committee. —Ordered. ^: 'The CHANCELLOR of •tlte Ee:cuEauPat e in call-, ing the attention of the Committee to the . Yimman chit measni.es of which he had givennotice, stat ed Mat the House was ae,aee that the Property Tax would expire on tlie sth'of April'nexte tent that several other war. taxes would also expire three months afterwards, in July. It was an int pbrtant consideration whether time - renewal of 'those ta.xes should be contemplated; or the sums necessary to pay off the . expellees of the Weir should be levied in a different manner. It was not his intention, as he 'had already stated on a former occasion, to proposelhe renewal of the Property Tax; not merely because that• Tax Was to expire on the sth of April next, or the war with America was terminated ; for though it was A war impost, lie did'not consider the House pre cluded from again resorting to it should circum stances render it expedient.. He did not conceive that the transactions of 1806 on this subject could bind future Parliaments against the interest of the country. He did not understand a compact between . the Commons at large and parliament., On this subject, whatever had been stated in the peti :oils laid before the House would have had no . ;effect, had more powerful considerations requir ed the. renewal of this impost. He recollected having heard a Right Ilonourabfe Gentleman begging pardon of the Hous'e for time part which he had taken in 1806, in the enerease of the Pro perty Tax. For himself, there was nothing which he considered with more satisfaction than the share Which he had in maintaining that irrie poSt. He belierecl that the Property Tax had been the means of rescuing the land from "its diffi culties; of supporting the exertions made io the r cause of European independence, and effecting the delivery ofnationse--(Hear, hear !)---It had saved the 'country A funded debt of 303 millions, with an animal charge on it of 14 minions. It had prndtati in money 150 millions, and saved a ca pital of unfunded debt of 180 millions, and near 9 millions of permanent taxes., Yet, however productive it had been, and however useful it might • have proved at a time when large sums would be wanted, he did not think proper to re new but considered it inure expedient,to pre serve it as a resourse, in case of the future re newal of war, to be resorted to only in the great est emergencies, as the firm basis of our public credit.-e-(Hear, hear !)—He bad been told of the inquisitorial nature of this Tax, and many com phonts.had been uttered in the /louse against the eexations which it was said to occasion. For his own part, he believed dint the Commissioners em ployed in its coilecthm had been actuated by the pnrest amid most patriOtie motives. They 'were not a set of.men appointed and.paid by the Crown. They were the same Gentlemen to whom the country was indebted for the preservation ,of peace, and whose attention and exertions in the gratuituus dispensation of justice did them time greatest honour. There were certainly ninny pro visions in the Act about to expire, which should not be adopted at a future period without the deepest consideration. ,He could not refer to times when liihtnity Was better understood than 'totho6e that followed .the Reyolutione Yet let the House lookat the Ist of Queen Anne 1 , semi( section, chapter 53, enacted at the renewal of time French %vat., and they would find what duties were then imposed. - Amongst others, there was one of foitr shillings in the pound omm pensions and an nuities, and one of five shillings in the pound on the produce of professions. The CounnisSioners, or thee major part of them, were empowered to exaumine tar inform upon oath, amid all traders com pelled to give retort's, signed by 'themSelves; of the whole qu•antity and value tit their stock in trade. The Commissioners were besides amino. rised to enter their premises at any hour. with re!rtxt tQ the PropOrty Tax, whenever it had been possible to make the *as;.essinent without personal injury it had been done. The property int the funds"was assessed to its full amount, without anl; difficulty. Titat in land was also pretty clearly ascertained, but that enehged in trade was of a less tangible shapc, and iFy assessmeut could not be very, correct. If, On clic revival of the Tax; a new mode of assesinent could be found in that particular branch, it probably contribute to render it more productive. He then alluded to rt clause included in the Act in 1803, for allowing private examinations, , but which did not fully answer the end proposed. Having thus entered into "a delence of the provisions of the Property Tax, to prevent that odium from being felt which had been expressed against it, and which it so little deserved, he would now -proceed to state the reasons' which induced hint to think its re newal unadviseable ; though in the present year, when large SUMS would be wanted to liquidate arrears, such -a measure might have appeared to many preferable to raising a loan, and on ac count, of the. advantages which it promised to perfectly justifiable. At the Peace of Amiens, the Property Tax, had been pledged to make good a large sum of imincy, and charged for a period of nine year s. Though its renewal ivonld therefore have been authoriked by peseta eirghonstances, he had considered that the im mense fluctuation of price which had taken place in almost every article would have introduced so great a Variety, as to have made returns difliCult. The impost would have fidien, besides with par ticular weight on the class of farmers, who would have found themselves rated far beyond their real property. The assessment had been calculated on a fair average, but when. the fluctuation of prices became excessive the average could not longer be regarded as just. Many ideas had been suggested to continue that tax during the present year, with various modification. It might - have been done on three different principles. By exempting those classes,' on whom its operation was considered as likely . to produce an unfair pressure, and includ- Ing all fixed property. - But the chief ground on Which this impOst had •been cheerfully borne, was, that all were included in it. When that should no longer be .the case/it would 'appear that Government were encroaching on the good faith of their et editors. Another., mode might have been adopted ; persons might have been charged in a proportionate ratio to their in conies ; the rich might have been made to pay much; and ti:e poor little ; but this would have been impracticable. The, Act gave : no insight into,the whole income of any one; it charged every Species of property, without inquiring about its proprietor: Any Gentleman, for instance, might be a partner in a banking-house in London, might hold a share in a manufactory at Manches ter, and have 100,0001, in the Funds--(A laugh) , —for every one of these he would be assessed se parately ; he might gain, on the-One and -lose on the other, and no One would know his real in,- There was no case in which the Whole of a man's revenue was known, unless when he ap plied for an abateaucut ti) he made. To revive the Property Tax .with this modification; the pre sent system must have been overthrown, and one more vexatious' established - in its stead. As this. impost would, therefore, now encounter mummy difficulties in its operation, and as it wos not the, intention of Parliament that it shotild be employed except as a 'War Tax, he thought it was far better to lay it aside entirely, and to return to one of 'those - resources' which at all times remained open ed to the country. , lle.was 'Convinced, hoWever, that in point of yight, had it been. expedient, it would have been e - xenseable to have preserved it for the purpose of diminishing - the . sum which must be raised by loan. Asto.the amount of the expences of the year, until - the ratification of peace by America should be received, it would be impossible to ascertain it correctly, He could not enter into any details on thatsubjeCt, as its reduction would hi some sort del end on the period at which 'this 'intelligence should, be received. What he, should now propose would therefore not be entirely on the-tboting of. peace' expeilditure. Large stuns of money would be required this sums, which even the renewal of the Property 'fax would 'not have covered. But since it Was abandoned, the him: must be considerably larger. In taking an enlarged view of our present 'situa tion, he would not compare it with that of the country when it was involved in difficulties at the close of the American \\Tar, and our public credit was really giving way. He would oppose it to the most flourishing period of our history, that. which preceded the long and exteaordinny war fare in which we had been engaged. In the year 1791, the produce.a the Consoli dated Vuna was The Charges upon it COME. Which !clog deducted from it, left a surplus of To this was to he added, the produce of Land - • and War Taxes L:3,47.q,000 1 1,821,000 2,151,000 2,558,000 Forming, together, a total of Disposable fcw the service.of t he' Country. Our income to the sth of January last, ineltid= .ing the produce of the Consolidated Fund, amounted to To this was to be added in War Taxes; ,,706,060 Fortuity , ' together a Total The charges upon this were Charges on Imperial Loan Pato on Poquguese Loan - Charges on Civil List and other 40,9(;2,00h :35,450 : 000 4Gt;,090 7,000 1,571;000 Nil Ithie: l'otal of n7,544,000 Which being deducted from the atiuve 40,9Ci"2,000 . , Learing-a surplus-of .3017,000 To this is to be added in Aeuuai Duties substi- • tilted to War Taxes, about 3,00,000 . . Which forms a T o t a l o f /4417,000 left, for tba servic e - of the State, , o that at the close of the late extensive, long, and expensive War, there rent lined a dispose ahle surplus'fimd much larger than at its commencement. The Sicking Fund, which tiow - produced upwartls of 11 millions, (h . l not yield at. that period more than 1 ,300;000i. It was true that we now had a debt of 650 millions, and that it only amounted to 250, at the time of the breaking out of the Revo lutionary war. We had in addition an unfunded debt which must be rovidcd:for. But to meet that,expence, we had 20,000,000 of war-tax - es. If it were possible. to reduce •our expenditure to what it 'vas at the commencement of the war, then we should have ample means in our powerlo encounter it, but it must he evident to every one, that such a reduction was impracticable., and that exertions must be Made to meet what could not be avoided. The expellee of the Peace ..:stabli sh ment would depend on the wisdom of Parliament; he wished its most deliberate attention should be given to the subject. But it v, , ould be unfair to look merely at what the I..!ace - Establishiuent cost formerly, and•not to take into Consideration what.. was' now really wanted. An augmentation of expenee was rendered unavoidable at present, by many circumstances connected with the pros perity and greatness of the empire. We must of necessity augment our Military Establish ment, on account of the increase of our Colonies., Malta, the Cape of Good Hope, several important islands the East and West Indies had heel' added to our poinintcius ; and a great extent or services had been prOvided by Parliament, which it did not depend' on Government to reduce .-- Amongst these might be mentioned the expelle e of the half-pay allowance, awl the widows' pen - , sious, which alone would not fall much short er the whole amountof our military establishment at the - he"giuning of the Nv ar. Respecting the peace establishment, be did not think he should be able to bring it under 18 pr 19 millions, including th e Irish establishment. He should be most baPPY to find' another year, that 'a greater reducrio n should be practicable. The present calculatio n % . vOuid allow two millions for Ireland, ,and seven teen for Great Britain.• • To meet the annual sun he would take from the Annual Taxes and Consolidated Fund nearly LE,o(}o, o - He would continue War Taxes to - the amount of 6,300,° ° ' 0 And would levy additional Taxes to an amount of about a 5,000, 0 17 ,500 I°°C) Making in all There would then only remain two millions to b e provided for Ireland. The expense of the Loan tor the present year, and the charge on the on funded debt, would also still be to be defrayed- If it were possible to reduce the amount of th e Peace Establisment to 13,000,0001. which was a t this moment utterly .still the tars -which he had mentioned would be necessary. ,Fi e thOught them preferable to making an applicatio lz to the Sinking Fund. Every Gentleman in th e House must be aware of the expences which o'r long war entailed upon a nation. These it re: quired time to.liquidate. After the contest Wit': America was closed, it was no t un til 178 G that Parliament took the Peace Establishment serious"' ly into consideration, and even as late as 1791 the Committee reported expences incurred on the ac, count of that war. Therefore he thought I ci e . spoke within compass, when he said that it woln scarcely be'practicable to 'wind up the peace ' tablishnient in less than four y ea r s from the pre sent time. Until 1819, therefore, it would b e necessary to have resort .to funding Exchegt.i e t f BillS, or Limns ; and to meet th e c h arges whie.r l those would occasion, with new taxes. In tb:: be had•the example of Mr. Pitt, who as ear?, as 1784, proposed by anticipation to form fund to liquidate the debt then funding. Tile r s was. also • the unfunded debt, the :charge O a which was also to be p ro vided f or , a s vle as for -that which was funded. The .first 'tee source .to meet this expenditure might hat been the continuance of th e W ar T axes , Iviliet o would have expired last Christmas, had they n°• then been renewed till n e xt J u l y , Th ere we" , some that had since expir e d, suc h as t h ose o n th e i o Export of British Manufacture 4, and on go o : carried coastways. These he did not intent!. f , renew, and if he did, their arirount would n e have been considerable. Neither did h e pror st to continue the duty on Cotton Wool, if nupor j `; ed in a Britib ship. This provision, be thought', was but a fair encouragement to our own platitel f : and no one could contemplate it. with any real e He would not read ov er th e li s t o f th e Taxes,-t be . c ': were familiar to ever y one , he would state th eir total amount, which for- the yearfluishing in J" 111 ; , 1515, consisted o f 9,857,0001. F rom this we t to be deducted 2,750,000, and 630,000 for Tax es ' which had" already expired. He should PT; • pose to conti nue on l y out of the r es t to t anumnt of 6,513,0001. He should now proee ue . to the new taxes- which, he had in view. thought he should gratify the curiosity of the House if he did not bri ng th em f or Wa rd 1 ; t 1 , usual order, but' come at lonee to the Asses s i e Taxes, on which the attention of most pe°P,,t seemed to be fixed. (A laugh.) He should propose any addition to the duty on window s 4 inhabited houses. He knew it was. a tax me inconvenient to the middling classes, who' ll of was his most sincere wi s h t o re lie ve as effectOf' as possible. But lie would lay a duty on 1 . 1 o f objects, to be i nc l u d e d i n th e denommation s ,• Windows—he meant green-houses, h o t-11°1 15 110 and conservatories, which had hithe r to paid , v duties` The assessment it . tould be made on,.e; superficial measure of glass, of forty- e ight s9°' 1, feet, ,which should be deemed, equal to a `'bet dow. The rate would .not be progiessive, an would not exceed 3s. Gd. per window.- Tlin! i , te extent of glass, 63 feet broad by 12 in - her' lid. would pay upon the whole 31. 7s. Gd. No ° Pe ;blt . trusted, would consider such a tax objectiolLos. —(llear, hear!)—Considering the great At i ` e y. tages which traders would derive from tbe °P i o f ing of the European port s , and th e reviv 3 t bc peace and commercial relations throtrahoo t world, be thought the fairly bel;roog l ! b t liC contribute more than they bad do n e to the P'i lo r.4, service. He should th er ef or e p ro p ose , that , 05 0 and warehouses sh ou ld p a y th e same proporu ° l . oe at duty of 3s. Gd.. per window. This ase ss ,,tc, would not yet admit o f ve r y accu rate est' 4 w but it was ca lcul a t e d .ould oeoduce 50, 0° ' at year. 'The next tax . should affect the vtt es . ent'c' t t i l 3 e e ir .inhabited houses in a scale of augm forming an increase of 30 per cent.: on 01' 1 s bo f present taxes. The rents of warelionse c - c o, he subjected to the same impost. The pr° ( ,'' •rOw • ,t the tax on houses was estimated at 396,-) /3 0 1 , of that on warehouses at 150,0001. T be o uw would be laid on servants and carriages, an,! l as ° he a more considerable and progressive lil h otli d f of SO to 90 per cent. If any Gentlemen ic a object to such an augmentation, he beq;tU e him to recollect what proportion it hone seta' Property Tax. The produce of this tax 1 0 0 1gte rants, exclusive of those in trade, was e - e t pro; at 410,0001. a year. The latter would 11° 1 ,0 1 ! e duce. so large a' sum, the estimate w'c' s ll , 1480001. The impost on carriages, 0 t t 40 ' I of About. 75 per cent. would produce)