The Sun. — London, England, 1842-02-17 00:00:00

e. nter just as much into the cost of production as other article , ; and he could not understand the reasons - allege 1 by those who argued on the other side. This measure, he thou g ht, therefore, w as ca l cu l a t e d t o benefit not so much th e landed proprietor as the farmer and the labourer. Now, with regard to a sliding scale as compared with a fixed duty, it was im possible for any person to look attentively into the subject, and not see the great advan e e tae of a slidi ne e e scale. Tu a certain extent he ad mitted that there might also be advantages in a fixed duty ; but he could not abandon the sliding scale. In the first place, when corn was very lOW, a fixed duty gave no protection to the nirmer ; for what protection could a fixed duty of 6s. or Bs. be to the farmer, when the price of corn at Elsinore was 255. or 30 s.' In framing a sliding scale, the best principle up peered to b e , t o ma k e t h e d uty as gra dual as possible, and if there was any rest, to make it as near as possible to the centre. He had seen a project for a sliding scale, framed by a gentleman named Thorpe, which retained a fixed duty between 50s. and 605., and a sliding scale at each end of it. He thought the idea was not a bad one, as it made the level as large, and the ascent and descent as gradual as possible, and would, perhaps, be more beneficial to the farmer, and still 1110 re to the importer than the plan of the Right Hon. Baronet ; still he accepted that plan as a great bout( to the agricultur a l interest, and he might state that he had from his eon- stituents the most satisfactory and ilatteringaccounts of it. ' The lion. Gentleman then read an extract Irma 'a letter approving particularly of the improved mode of t a ki ng the averages, and proceeded to say, that, under the present system, it was only the strong men, the amen of great capital, who made fortunes ; the small traders, and men of small capital, were fr e q ue n t ly ruined, lie was ; unfortunately, aware of many in stances .in the town he had the h onour to represent of persons who had declared themselves to have been: ruined by the operation of the present scale of •• duties, while others had made large and flourishing for . tithes, He . stated facts that must be well known to eyery . Mentifer of that House who had paid any atten tion to the subject ; but as he had said before, he was . sure that all moderate, and practical, and thinking ... men would consider the measure of the Right- Hocoureble Baronet -as a great boon.—(Tory cheers.) The Noble Lord on the opposite side of the House de scribed the proposed schethe as a measure which con ceded ' without conciliating. Ile (Sir Walter James) was very gl a d o f t h at , because it was too much the fashion for the Conservatives to conciliate without . ,justice.—("Hear, hear," from the Opposition benches.) Conservatives conceded sometimes for the sake of con ciliation and justice too ; but he was convinced that the proposed measure had been made not alone for the love of conciliation, but that it was made for the benefit of the public, and for the pure love of justice to all parties. Ile was convinced it would . promote the interests of all classes of the country, and not of any particular class.—(llear.) If' there was any proof of that wanted, it might be had by looking at the extreme views taken up by those who were opposed to the present measure. There were first the farmers of Boston, who say that the proposed rate of duty is a great deal too low ; and on the other hand, there were the gentle men of the Anti-Corn-law Conference who think that it is a great deal too high. Now, if there was anything in the old maxim that virtue was a mean between good and evil, he (Sir 'Walter James) unhesitatingly said that the scheme proposed by her Majesty's Ministers was the very best that could tie devised; and as such it should have his most earnest and hearty support.--(Cheers.) Mr. BEIINAL rose principally to reply to what had been advanced the evening before by the Ho new-able and Gallant Gentleman the Member for Westminster (Captain Rous), who stated that a di minutien of the price of bread would lower wages ; it was scarcely necessary to answer such a fallacy. In no eases whatever were the increase of wages de pending upon the decrease of the price of bread. He (Mr. Bernal) would first call the attention of the House to the price of provisions. In 1835 bread was only Id. a pound, and there was no fall in wages. In 1840 bread was double that, and there was no corresponding increase in wages.—(Hear, hear, hear.) In 1835 the cost of wheat for the entire nation was 32,000,000/. ; in 1840 it was 54,000,0001. which left, 22,000,0001., in the former year, in the pockets of tins pcoele, and was applied to the purchase of clothes c tpl other articles of that sort.—(Hear, hear.) In his opinion too much stress had been laid upon the an alogy betiveen the comforts and habits of living of the Engli6htnan and the foreigner. From our greater degree of commerce, and our higher degree of civilization, we had established a maximum degree of comfort. As well, then, might the foreign statesman endeavour to prove that because the fimeigner used wine as his prevalent beverage, he was happier and better than the Englishman who drank beer. It was only within the last eighty years that the lower classes of . this country had been wheat fed. At the close of the reign of George the Second, barley-bread, rye, and even oat-cakes were the staple food of the community. It - . was through the great improvements which had taken - place in agriculture that the country became wheat fed. The Honourable Gentleman had spoken of I '' ' the unlimited invention of machieery Was he prepared 41 ' .1 ,, to eay that the distress which existed was to be attributed '''' '• •- to the invention ofnachinery?:—(llear, hear.) The Hon..,.Menaber for Knaresborough, in a rather bombastic manner, had given a chidlenge the 4enttemen connected • „With the inatiuft4urnig interest, which he was surprised had not been accepted on that SO, of the House ; and if the II on.G elide:nun sucee(dedin establishing that propositii in he confused that it would greatly influence his opinion. ~..e The Ilan. Gentleman designated the petitions presented ; _against the Corn-laws us forgeries. Now there had been presentee( 1,033 petitions, signed by 259,939 persons. Was this an accusation that should be wade against such a body ? Ile also said • • that the farmers were not eppesed to a modification of the Corn-laws ; if they were not, why, then, did a certain Noble Duke leave the Cabinet ? lie (Mr. Bur ' r i nal) hoped that sonic Member connected with the .Noble Duke, would give some explanation on this point. 1 e • . Now the farmers were opposed to any modification, , • and it was useless to expect anything from them • - until they had a higher rate of education amongst them. • • Thu majority of the present House were in fact sent in ' under false pretences to maintain the Corn-laws, and lay violent hands on the New Poor-law.—(hear hear.) But he would not dwell farther on this point. Much had been said about die peculiar burthens upon land. Until it was shown to him in a proper way what those peculiar burthene really were, he should suspend his vote as to the amendment about to be moved. But he could not think, without such a case being made nut, that the landed interest was burthened more than any other ; it was was not, therefore, entitled, in his opinion, to greater protection. If a case were made out of the landed interest being more burthened than any other he would vote fur a greater amount of pro tection in order to repay it. Mr. SCOTT would not trespass on the indulgence of. the House, if he did not feel that he was the represen tative of a constituency of much importance. The Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down had said that those who hind been returned as the representatives /2141 'of an agricultural constituency were sent there " I ''• Merely for the object of maintaining the law in its prie '''' tine state. He (Mr. Scott) was sent there as the ~,,, representative not only of an a gricultur a l, b u t o f a ma nufacturine constituency, and he would, therefore, sup port the interests of both. The county (Roxburgh) which he represented contained a constituency of both kinds. . , The Right, lion. Baronet, in introducing his measure, stated that it wee his wish to fix the price of wheat as •, . nearly as possible at 565. a quarter. Now he (Mr. . - Scott) thought that that was a reasonable price, and he believed it would offer a sufficient ' re muneration to the farmer. The great question at issue was whether we were to be dependent on our selves for the subsistence of our increasing - population, .or whether we were to be dependent upon foreigners, whether we were to receive our supplies from our own countrymen and friends, or from ourpresent rivals, and it might be our future thee. Now, he thought that the ar guments used on the other side were far from convincing. It had been stated as an argument in favour of the plan pro , - posed by the Noble Lord, that the importation of corn at pre .- •- ~ sent caused the exportation in last year of seven millions of but , ire . lion for 2,000,000 quarters of corn. But the Noble Lord himself A* said that the quantity of corn imported would be doubled if his :II o Ilan were adopted. Surely, then, if 4,000,000 quarters were t'" ' imported, fourteen millions of bullion would be exported in - , exchange. The derangement of the currency was . .• easily accounted for by the increased issues, not .only of the Bank of England, but of the Joint . 4. stock • Banks. The currency used by the latter !e. lid increased in the year 1834 up to 1838 from 1,317,4921. - ta4,258,190f. When they considered that theme was also a • displacement of four millions from another cause, surely there was enough to account for the distress which existed, without attributing it to the Corn-laws. It would be very pleasant that they should take more of our goods; it would be very plea , . Sant further, to attend to the concerns of the country, and not ~ their own. ,But they were not regulated by any such principle ; t h ey - look what they wanted, and all the re ' 0 -- - t u rns showed that fore i gn countries looked for our ~,,;, , gold, and nut for our manufactures.— c Hear.) The Noble Vi s count, late at the heat! of h er . elegy s Government, had said that they might alter the Corn-laws as they would, but he believed the foreign Powers would not take one bale more of ~ -the goods of this country ; but a greater authority than the ten ' - .2.10he Viscount, Mr. Burke, had s aid that it was not • aim . . necessity of the seller, but the necessity of _the-. purchaser that raised the price of the article. sal Itellaw was, it to be expected, when this country had -'-''' ' 4- -tlieett .4self in a dependent potation with respect to foreign -,-• ' ''awgras, that they would deal with this country against their "a interests') It had been said that embarrassments in trade bad been occa sioned by the Corn-laws, and that, if they were . , ; altered , it would g iv e grea ter vent for the goods of this coon -rLi.ou There was no evidence of that. It had been argued by T a persons that if the Corn-laws were altered, our ex ports would be greatl y in cre ased. It appeared to him that they ought tojud ge h , and . . d . d . o f t etuture by time past ; if in taking a 0i,.- rent series of years nest, when there was a great import of of foreign lOrti; and, seeondly when there was no importa tion ; and if they f ound that t he exports were still going on, :it must be clear that t h ere was little or no (13nocetion between the experts and the eff,et of the Corn-laws. If he took from die soar 1822, and divid e d it into per i ods 'ef four years, he found. ii• o n t the official retur ns , that, in the first period, the exper:s am ounted to 65,000,tXX4. ; i n the year 1832, there were • 76,0e0,000/. ; and in the one instance they imported les; corn, and in the other a greater quantity.—( Hear, hear. ) fie ,. ) His argument went to show that there was no connexion whatever between their exports and the importa tion of corn. I n the year 17 their exports amounted to - 8,5 000,000 L, and in 1840 to 116,c00,000L, and yet, durire , ...! ' t A ...be latter . year. they complai ned of . g reat distress, while • ' Z" . Ay' errs • was ari abundance during the former year. He did gricmuilutui9rues, whandaebtez '7" -- ''',"'- 10 0ja•t deny the existence of distress , but it was not attributable time amount of agri- J .:..- acrwi lto the CO,vyrniiilarw.EmTerliye, theirv: h lu o e pr o o f ved tha. z iaordreitlttiral produce was two hundred and fifty .t. `:if manufactures was only one hundred and thirty millions. ~ -.% there was one thing more than a no th er which . he wi s h e d to 1---A ~ CCA • ontage it was. active industry , an d he thou g ht th at the c '`f.t l- ..-,.', 4 ..,.rnel sure proposed by - the Right Hon. Baronet would be admi. A ;ably calculated for the promotion of native industry. No one iliouldregret more than he did the distress which existed in .a‘tt. rHE SUN, LONDON, THURSDAY MORISINC-r, i d t i_ffe b r e e n b t e p l parts e d o i f t : h a e nd co b u e nt t r b y . ; u a b b d • e t t i b d at n t o b t e w H is o h us t e o i t ~n . a d s e r b r o a u l n u to pay attention to the facts dai l y brought _before it. He r e gretted, however, that it had been stated b b b y . the Hon. Mem ber fur Sheffield, that the n umber of uninhabited houses was proof of that distress. If they compared the population in 1831, with the population in 1841, and the num ber of uninhabited houses then and now, instead of founding an argument in favour of existin g distress the, would find one in favour of prosperity. In relation to the pi-- pulation it would be found that ther e oug ht now to h, 400,000 u ninhabited houses instead of 198,000. The fact was that there had been over-building as well a s over -p ro d uc ti on The evidence to which he referred would show that the dis tress on that occasion was referred, net to the Corn-laws, bu to the mania for speculation an d the 'proceedings of the Bank It appeared in the course of the arguments of the Anti-Corn law party that they, in demanding cheap food, did mean to re duce the wages of the operative; and, therefore, he could no see what benefit would be enjoyed by the working mat if he could buy corn at 455., instead of 66s a quarter, if at the same time his wages were reduced from 151. to 7s. 6d., or from Hs. to 6s. But his (the Noble Lord's chief reason for supporting the measure of the Right Hon Baronet was a:conviction that in times of plenty it would seem, the farmer, and in times of scarcity it would provide food i abundance for the labourer. On the contrary, the other pla, proposed to be introduced would ruin the farmers in times 1 , abundance by destroying his protection, and injure the pot, man in times of scarcity by destroying the deposits i. grain in the bonded storehouses. It was the more re i l markable that the plan should be introduced when, durin g the ten years the Honourable Gentlemen were in ollici and had the power of carrying it into effect, they ha; heard nothing about it. At that time the Nubl- Viseount -at the head of tho Government declared that i would be madness to make a change. The measure could no: give satisfaction, and it appeared to 11;p that the only objet: of its supporters was to prevent any satisfaction being deriver. - from the measure of the Right Hon. Baronet. lie reterret . to the imports of corn from the Black Sea, to show the but a very limited quantity could be drawn from that quip ter, and the argument that the population of this country had outstripped the supply of food, he met with th , fact, that though the population had increased from *en mil lions to upwards of eighteen millions since the commencemen of the present century, yet the importation of corn, front 1631 to 1840, did not exceed by 100,000 quarters the quantity im ported from 1790 to 1800. It was satisfactory to know that it. average years we could grow sufficient to feed our own popu lation. Mr. HASTIE said it would be in the recollection of House, that in the year 1836, we had a very abundant harvest. In 1837 the monetary difficulties in the United States cause, some little degree of commercial embart assment, but th• country soon recovered from that check. In 1838, 1839, 184(1 and 1841, we had had short harvests, and the price of provision had consequently been raised so much that it had become im possible for many of the labourers to buy clothing, the whole of their income being expended in the purchase of food The Hon. Gentleman then adverted at some length to thi effect of the Corn-laws upon the Bank of England, which wa• frequently drained of its bullion, which bullion was sent t. Hamburgh and other places in payment for corn. By this means difficulty was thrown on all trade. In consequence of the Bank of England being drained of its bullion, it became necessary to raise the rate of discount, and thus, when engage ments, entered into a year perhaps before, came to be fulfilled this sudden rising of the discount produced great disasters. and the foreign merchant naturally became insolvent. Hi stock, consisting of sugar, cotton, indigo, and other foreign produce, was thrown into the market, and thus the prices of these articles were reduced, and the solvent merchant was it danger of becoming bankrupt also. This effect was inherent for every Corn-law having a sliding scale.—( Hear, from the Opposition.) The same ren'ark would apply to the manufac tures of the country. The manufacturer was obliged to pay a high rate of discount, and the natural effect was, in many cases, insolvency. The insolvent's stock was thrown into the market, and sold at a loss, and necessarily brought down the prices of the goods of the solvent manufacturer. Thus was the distress of the manufacturing districts to be traced to the Corn-laws Now let them consider another branch of these Corn-laws. The importation of corn from foreign countries generall! took place in the months of June, July, and August. The corn was paid for on its arrival in gold. It arrived at ts time when prices naturally were high in this country, when the farmer had sold three-fourths of his crop, and when th. time had not arrived for him to thrash the grain from the new crop. He (Mr. Hastie) contended that no system of taking the averages could possibly prevent this frequently recurring. The sliding scale induced the speculator and foreign corn. grower to hold their corn till the price was at. 635., and the farmer reaped no protection, because the rising in price took place when the principal part of his crop was gone. and when his new crop came into the market the prices were reduced in consequence of a large importation of foreign corn. By this system a course of suffering was inflicted on the working classes which ne description of his could gire any idea of. This was the re sult of the present sliding scale. The sliding scale was a sys tem which tended to destroy the commerce, and certainly to ruin the manufactures, of this country.—(Cheers from the Op position.) He had listened with great attention to the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet, but he (Mr. Hastie) must confess that he had felt disappointment in the causes which the Right Hon. Baronet had brought forward as productive of the dis tress of the country; and he was sorry that those which thi Right Honourable Baronet considered as primary causes were of so slight a character. The only causes which he had brought forward were joint-stock banks, American difficulties, and the war with China. Now, with regard to the war with China, he would tell the Right Hon. Baronet that, in the yeas ' 1841, a larger amount of cotton manufactures were sent to China than in several years previously.—( Hear, hear.) In 1840, a larger quantity of calico was exported to that coun try than in 1839 ; in short, a regular increase of exports had taken place to that quarter of the world, in every species of trade, for some years past. Now, that could not be the cause of the trade of this country being in its present state of dis tress.—( Hear, hear.) With regard to America, it was quite true what the Right Hon: Baronet had stated, and that three millions had been the deficiency in the exports to that country. But in a great country like this, trading to all the world, pe culiar branches of its, trade - might become paralysed. So far as.that went, he quite' areedWlth'the Right Hon. Baronet. ; bat when:they tesok,tlse,aggregate.a.tbe exports, although one branch might fall short, yet;-wheit they -found the aggregate increaring year after. year, that one branch could not be the cause of distress in the trade,of the country. Now, in proof 01 this, he would readies the House what was the total amount 0 exports of this coutitty in the last four years. In 183 S, the total amount of exports was 43;304,623/. In 1839, the exports were 45,281,252/. Sir R PEEL—Is that the declared value? Mr. HASTIE—Yes, this was the declared value. In 1840, the exports were 43,959,604/. This was less than the preced ing year, but the whole exports in 1841, were 44,545,525/. Now, in 1641, it was well known that prices were much lower than the year before; they were 10 per cent. lower, and as this was the declared value, adding 10 per cent. to the exports of 1841, it would add four millions to the exports of that year. The prices of former years he had quoted, remained the same with reference to each other, therefore, adding these four millions to the ex ports of 1841, it made those exports amount to upwards of 48 millions, so that no falling off had taken place in the exports of this country; therefore the Right Hon. Baronet could not at tribute the distress to this cause, as no cessation had taken place in the foreign trade of this country. He (Mr. Hastie) would state to the House the number of yards of manufacturing cotton of all descriptions, exported in the year 1839, namely. 720,000,000, the declared value of which was 16,378,0001. In 1840, and he wished them to mark this as an illustration of his ar gument. In 1840 seven hundred and ninety millions six hundrec thousand yards of calico were exported, and the declared value was only 6,30'2,000L. proving that a larger quantity had been exported, while the value was less than the year before, arising from the low prices of the raw material, thereby proving that the quantity, although it 'might appear that the aggregate value was less, was greater than previous years. Now, in cotton yarn in 1839 it was 105,600,000/., with a declared value of 6,350,000/. In 1840 it was 118,000,0001., with a declared value of 7,000,0001., making an average of 3%d. per yard ; and in 1840 of 20. a yard—showing a decrease in the value of 6/. per cent. He wished to show to the House that the exports had not fallen off, although our manufacturing labourers were in want of employment, and in great suffering throughout the country. Having shown that the distress of the country did not arise from a falling off in the exports, he would state what, in his opinion, was the cause of that distress. and then leave the House to decide upon it. During the years of 1833, 1834, and 1835, the average prices of wheat was 425. 2d. Now, estimating the quantity of wheat consumed by each individual according to the calculation of the Hon. Member for Shropshire, at a quarter, or eight bushels, and taking the population in round numbers at 28,000,000, and taking the price, as he said before, at 425. 2d., the amount paid by the inhabitants of this count r y f or w h ea t was 6 2,000,000/. Then in 1837 the price was 445. 6d., making the total con sumption of this country 60,000,0001. Now he found that those years were years of prosperity ; 60,000,000/. was suffi cient for the purchase of wheat for the inhabitants or this country. He now arrived at the first year of the short crops,' 838,, when the price of wheat rose to 565., and the amount paid by the inhabitants of this country was 75,000,000/., making a dif ference between that and the former year of 15,000,000/.; thus taking 15,000,000/. from the amount which should be expended by the people in clothes to wear. He would now come to the . year 1639, when the price was 635. 841., making the total amount of consumption 85,950,000/., which was a difference to the inhabitants of the country of 25;000,000/. between that year and the year 1837. As he said before, this 25,000,000/. was taken from the manufacturers of the country. In 1840 the price was 675., making the total amount of 89,000,000/. and in 1841 it was the same. The total of these four years— years in which value was depreciated—these four years, io compared with the three previous years, had takeu out of the pockets of the inhabitants of this country one hundred mil lions sterling.—(Loud cheers from the Opposition benches.) Now, taking all these circumstances into consideration—when the same high prices existed at the present moment—when they found numbers of the manufacturers were working half time, and consequently paying half wages,—considering how these laws influenced the Bank of England, the foreign merchant, and the home manufacturer, he had hoped to see the sliding scale done away with.—(Loud. cheers.) He could not hope that the Right Hon. Baronet would change it to an abolition of the duty; but he had hoped that the Right Hen Baronet would have seen that a fixed duty would be one of the best means of restoring the commerce of the country.—( Cheers. ) Mr. CHRISTMAS, after some preliminary observations, said, that that House, constituted as it was from the commu nity at large, could not attempt to look at the question under consideration, without reference to the wants and the interests of the public generally, and the vast masses of persons who were so deeply affected by it.—(llear, hear.) If that consi deration were to weigh with the House with reference to this country, it applied particularly to Ireland, where the vast masses of the country were agricultural—whose interests would consequently be most seriously affected by this question. For his own part; he (Mr. Christmas . ) . apprehended most serious injuries would result to Ireland it the scale of duty was not sufficient to insure protection to the agriculturists there, and he was convinced that the injury would recoil upon this count ry,—( Hear, hear.) If the price of corn were diminished the landed proprietors of Ireland would be obliged to take into their own hands vast tracts of land, now cultivated by the poorer classes of the people. Hon. Members should recollect that the price of corn in Ire :and is as less than here, and lik ew i se t h at t h e l an d t h ere was not at all improved as it was in this country.—( Hear. ) He thought the great falling off in the export of corn from Ireland in the last three years were to be attributed to the unfavourable seasons. At the same time he believed that the exports from that country might be considerably increased by a better sys tem of agri !ulture. The (Alma' e, too, was not favourable; the 1 humidity of the Irish climate rendered the growth of corn there somewhat snore defective than in En g la n d. With regard to oat, there was a great increase in that article since 1825, even though the last three seasons were bad, there was scarcely any falling off at all in the article. He thought that wheat was sufficiently protected, but there should be a higher scale of protection for oats, consequently he should feel himself called upon to recommend an increased duty up on th a t article. Considering the entire question, he felt little i nc l ina ti on t o enter into its details, hut , after giving it his best attention, he should say he felt it his duty to give Ills full and entire assent to theresolution of the Right Hon. Baronet.--(Hear. ) Mr. ROEBUCK said he would not have intruded himself upon the dulgence of the House, but he believed, were he to vote upon the question as it now stood, there might be, some . misapprehension as to the opinion he entertained upon the subject. r He claimed the indulgence of the House while he made some observations with respect to what had fallen from ihe Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for the Home Departreint, made :he evening before. That Right Hon. Gentleman said that sometimes the Members of the House were opposed to the rules of common sense. He (Mr. Roebuck) quite agreed with that Right Hon. Gentleman, that , f the rules of the House were correct, they should not be de parted from. He quite agreed with him that the discussion of this question ought to have been left to a secondary conside ration ; but he believed that the Right Hon. Gentleman was slightly in error when he said those rules were departed from in a matter seemingly unimportant. He believed that the reason for departing from them arose partly from misconception, which had gone abroad with reference to the rules of the House, and partly from a misunderstanding of what had fallen from him (Mr. Roebuck). It was quite competent to any Honourable Gentleman to propose a resolution for the adoption of the House against putting on any duty whatever upon foreign corn ; an amendment might be proposed by the rules of the House upon that resolution, and a division had upon it; and a second amendment might be now put upon that, and the sense of the House taken upon that amendment first. He took that to be the rule of the House, and he should wish and desire that that should be done, because by that means those Hon.seGentlemen who thought with him that there should be no dittywhatever upon foreign Sewn, Would be relieved from many eldffieulties and much misapprehension, which might otherwlse be attached to theni.—(Hear, hear. ) It might go abroad out of doors that he, and those who acted with him, had not fairly brought the question before the Clouse. But, at the seine time, it those Gentle men thought there could be no misapprehension as to the question, he (Mr. R.) was perfectly willing to yield his Judgment to their opinion as to the best mode of determining the matter. He would go before the public, leaving it with diem to consider whether he, and those who acted with him, were acting properly in the course they were taking in the liscussion. He wa s opp ose d t o th e propos i t i on o f th Right . donourable Baronet, and his opposition arose from ;the ( - act of its being a sliding scale. It was not to any pecue liarity in the measure to which he wished to ad dress himself, because he felt it his duty to give the entire mea • sure his most strenous opposition.—( Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Roebuck) believed that the plan the Right Hon. Baronet proposed was an evasive and impolitic plan. impolitic. for reasons which he would shortly state ; unwise for the Right Honourable Baronet's own purpose in the largest sense of the term, for the happiness of the people. But before he went on to the discussion of the question, he hoped he should be allowed to strip it of much extraneous matter which had been mixed up with it ; as far as lie was concerned he could not see why this should be made a religious question—( Hear, hear)—but he would, as fairly as his abilities would permit, set forth the arguments which he thought valid against its policy as a tax, not enlisting in his favour any prejudices against those who held different views. Unfortunately considerations had been mixed up with the discussion of this question, which redounded not to the credit of those who set them forth The imputation of sin —for it was an imputation of sin—might be raised against them on a future occasion, and they would suffer for that spirit of fanaticism which they had raised. The law might be, and he (Mr. Roebuck) believed was, impolitic and unwise, but unwise and impolitic did nut mean sinful. Injustice of all descriptions was sinful ; it was not fair, therefore, to prove this law un j us t by assuming it to be sinful. If he could not succeed by fair argument in subduing his opponents, he would enlist into his service no improper auxiliaries.—( Hear, hear.) He would wish to addiess himself first to the existing distress that had been admitted by the Right Hon. Baronet himself, and by Hon. Members on both sides of the House who had yet spoken on the subjeet.—(Hear, hear.) All had been loud, unani mous, almost vehement, in their praises of the mode in which the people had borne their sufferings.—( Hear, hear. ) They were all, unfortunately, bound to agree on its intensity and extent, and they were glad to bear their testimony to the valour, lie would call it, with which they had borne it ; but they were not agreed to its cause, and he (Mr. Roebuck), in speaking of its cause, did not wish to im pute it to any party not existing in the State.—( Hear, bear.) He believed it to have arisen from circumstances over which. in reality, they had no control; from circumstances which, in reality, they, as now existing, never could have caused ; but lie thought it important that in considering the cause of this distress they should look back for a few years, and learn what was at the bottom of it.—( Hear, hear.) He thought it would be found to have originated in that system which had arisen, not out of their own views, but from the views of those who had preceded them.—(Hear, hear.) A fictitious opinion had been raised in this country by the opposition which it was thought necessary to make against France; that made them a separate people, as regarded the rest of the world, insular in their knowledge as much as they were in their geographical position. As time went on this peculiar system, subject to new trials, had brought on gradually the whop amount of evils to which they were now now subject. It should be remembered by those opposite that the energies which they then exerted made them manufactu rers, and the Gentlemen opposite were not now to turn round and say—" are we to maintain the manufacturers ?"—( Hear. ) They had been brought into existence by the universal consent of those who had governed the State ; and though the present Government might not be answerable for the cause, they were at least for the mode in - which they dealt with it now; and he ( Mr. Roebuck) did say that the manu facturing class of this country had a distinct claim on the Gen-- tlemen opposite who represented the landed interest of this country, and they must not say that they would foster the manufacturers no longer.—(l - fear. hear.) The time was passed for that ; they should have said it when the enemy was at the door. They were saved as a nation by that gigantic effort, and would it be justtce now to turn round and forsake them.—( Hear.) They were not those now to say, " Can we maintain these interests ?" They must.— ( Cheers.) " Can we foster this manufacturing interest?" They must foster it. —( Hear.) It was no longer a matter of right, but a matter of necessity. Now, applying themselves to this, he would ask the House, and the Right Hon. Baronet himself, while he dis claimed imputing the cause of the distress to the Right Hon. Baronet, seriously to consider the position which he (the Right Hon. Baronet) assumed when he came to that House to deal with that distress.—( Hear.) Some feiv months ago these difficulties were seen coming on. All men of particular saga city—and there was no man more sagacious than the Right Hon. Baronet—saw what was coming.—(Hear.) .That was the time when the Right Honourable Baronet. and his I party thought fit to make an effort to move all the energies which were ' at their command to seat themselves where they now where, and violently to seize the reins of Go vernment.—(" Hear," and laughter.) He ( Mr. Roebuck) was only stating the facts distinctly as they occurred. It was at that time when every man of common sagacity—not to say of such peculiar sagacity and perspicacity as the Right Hon. Baronet possessed—must have foreseen this. It was therefore his peculiar responsibility to answer for the mode in which he dealt with this distress. On his shoulders must rest the blame if he did not deal with it properly. When the late Government left their seat, they proposed—late he would allow; late was the good, but good it was—measures for relieving the distress of the country. Some might say that that was a sort of proceeding which was very like the baptism of Constantine—he thought by that means to wash out the sins which attached to a life of rapacity. They were not permit ted to carry that scheme into effect ; the Right Hon. Baronet assumed the reins of power, and on him devolved the business of alleviation. When the Right Hon. Baronet last year ap peared before the House, he said, and he (Mr. Roebuck) thought said justly, that he must take time to consider what should be done—lie must take all the evidence, and examine all the features of the case. Give him, then, time, and they should see what he would do.—( Cheers. ) He (Mr. Roebuck) did not know whether sufficient time had been given him.— (Hear, hear, and laughter.) They had heard him, on the first night of the session, with much force, and an appearance of sorrow, as if he were weighed down by the burthens that pressed on him. He came forward and told them, as early as possible, as soon as the forms of the House would allow, he would come down and touch this awful question. They were all alive, on the tip-the of expectation; all Hon. Members had, no doubt, been troubled for applications to fill that gallery— (pointing to the strangers' gallery); the world abroad was all alive—we wonder what his saga"ity would bring forward to relieve this distress. Every Honourable Member, lie was sure, must recollect the scene which then took place. They saw him walk up the House with care and pride mingled in his countenance, as much as to say, " Now is the great day, something is about to be disclosed ; now for the mystery." Great was the marvel they did expect that there would have been some plan devised by care, fore thought, and provident regard, which should, as far as states men could devise, tend to alleviate this distress. For two long hours the question was worked round by the Right Hon. Baronet—every now and then Members seized pens and paper, for the pnrpose of taking down what he should say. The minutes escaped the Right Hon. Baronet, who still went round about it, about it, about it, and at length, with all this preparation for months, the marvellous mystery—the extraor dinary secresy—the wonderful sagacity—the Right Hon. Ba ronet's scheme—came out in a sliding scale. This was the re sult of all the wonderful secresy. What was it? An altera tion—a slight modification of the old system ; but it might be said that the Right He nonrable Baronet thought that the sliding scale was the best plan they could adept; but if he did think so, why not have said so at once, and riot have called forth expectations in this proceeding. There was nothing so wonderful in this new scale but it might have been com posed in half an hour ; the only difficulty was the jumping scale; hut who would deny that all which had been proposed might not, with the aid of an accountant, have been settled in Half an hour. He ( Mr. Roebuck) complained that the Right Hon. Baronet had dealt so deficiently with the question.— ( Hear.) As a bold statesman, he should have come for ward, and said, " This distress is beyond me; I won't pretend to relieve it ; it is not worth while to touch the question at all ; and I will not have anything to do with it ;" but he had taken the question into his hands, he had lamade the child his own, and he left the country to admire the bantling.—(Cheers and laugh ter.) It had been expected by the country that a plan would have been proposed by which corn might remain at a certain fixed price, and that by lowering the price of food the market might be enlarged, which, by enabling the manufacturers to di-pose of their produce,. the people who were now starving might be fully employed, and su c h a field for action laid open that the alleviation might be immediate and very extensive. Weighing the Right Ilmi. Itart.'s scheme ies this balance, what was it worth ? It might be said, and it had beer, said, by the Right lion. Gentleman, 'the Vice-Presid en t o f th e B oar d of Trade, that comp ar i ng t he price of bread in other countries distress countries ,apply. theirt 1p where eply. e 1 markets rt h Hhaf e dkeowe r verr e ehat( tsniA w h:tihoea a ravg s ipwseerßrea n t oowrso o dtehehgut i bhcecre C uaehet woilcaoloktrsehntned)ioali- self-supporting 0 : :c a r, fsbos w oucreeipforls uufpei .tdron. with shertu:otrpiei wßnweid) countries derived htel system r stdi rauni i t o pgc: s w poe ctdlue n ioh lexfuadrsdanto. c t nenintoproupieteHenl depending He (Mr. referredred, extending nwin( , dagdhnin t leotn i rrtui i nge.o r t ciliated. And we now suffered under all the disadvantages winch appertainedourselves Roebuck) took his ground on the self-supplying system, and he said it was a bad one—bad in principles, and incapable of being followed out in this country. It did not exist, nor could they make it exist.—( Hear, hear.) They had More mouths than they could feed—their country would not grow diem corn—they are obliged to apply to the manufacturer;and he would guard them thus against the notion of a self-Sup -I.li ine system. Instead of alleviating distress, they were con siderably augmented. He wished to know if we should, net have been a war long ago with North America if it had not been for our commercial intercourse.—( Hear, hear.) !W e should strengthen our relations with Spanish America, Odessa, w a, l s i o ich ex m te e n a d ns ti Ne e lli b lsit es w si e ug e s xti o m f d p e e d a r e, r co ov m e - r world. And let it not be said that they were to be depen d ant i 'll' i l l in e ed r i. r e : e h el l e ri w" 's ehe g rs o eh in ou g blyd forth as Ines , engers of peace throughout! the upon other nations, because they had supplies from them, Alexander NVh a t had the ea 4i ns t b b r u o t u o g u h r t c a o b m o m ut ur t c h e? ealli ß an u c t e l e b t e b tse i • l e u en ( A N ir a . po ß le u o e n bit ! : n k e prevent v t e h n e t tbe fluctuationli on. u f p Baronet, i c d e i dill he i e 'e mode thh Hon. Baronet's argument was, h consider his friends (Hear, hear) good. He (Mr. Roebuck) would warn leithink veryin by which pith he 3 these of m hbg. , hitshepla inlonw. was tlemen o pp os it e , th e represen t a ti ve s of th m e uc la h nd t e h d at int nl et that on th e ques ti on o f p r i ce hung be imputed to them hereafter ; for here came 1 doctrine of protection, and he (Mr. Roebuck) was one said that there ought to be no protection. What did it m for what was it to be supported? what was the object? the means by which that w as to be obtained ? The Right 1 Member for Kent said last night that it was to maintain position of the landed interests and society, meaning, he ( 1 Roebuck) supposed, that by those means should be maint,' i the `Mr. fined ithose who, by the aid of money, ease, and leisure might have the means of extending their measure throughout society, which might tend to soften, toraise, and to benefit society. That was what the Hon. Member meant, he supposed, by maintaining the interest of the landed gentry, but it yet remained to be shown that all those advantages, if advantages they were, were to be maintained only at the expense of protection. He (Mr. R. ) did not believe that the gentry of England would be ruined by an alteration of the Corn -laws. Could it be supposed that they would be less wise, less courteous, less country gentle men, than before ? Was it to be imagined that they, who were the ornament, the flower, the Corinthian capital of the country, were supported by the 20e. duty en corn, and could only exist in common with a tariff? He (Mr. Roebuck) could not believe any such thing. They were a great benefit to society, tut they would be just as much so without the 20s. duty en corn. Wealth, to be beneficial to society, did riot require to be in large sums and few hands.—( Hear. ) It was said that the Corn-laws did not take any thing from the country, or that, if the landlords got with one hand they paid with the other ; but surely, in that case, they may as well give them their goods at once—( Hear, hear)—that was the mean. ing of the argument. The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite had endeavoured to prove, last night, that the advantage de rived from the Corn-laws by the landed interest did not amount to more than five millions. He certainly differed from the Hon. 'Member for Bolton, who said that they gained fifty mil lions. But assuming it to be five millions, which was only as a drop in the ocean of the evil, did they not, in addition, pre vent them from stretching their commerce to many places which would be glad to receive their products ? lee landed aristocracy said they were our best consumers ; but if they gave back the five millions they acknowledged to have taken away, and allowed them to extend their commerce, they would soon get consumers elsewhere. If as was said by the Honourable Member for Bolton, they received fifty mil lions for their own benefit, he (Mr. Roebuck) thought they paid too much for their Corinthian column.—( Laughter. ) He repudiated the entire doctrine of protection. It ciuld not be shown to be of the slightest advantage to the country—it increased the expenditure of the whole people for the benefit of the few, to maintain a small section in a state of affluence for that was the nature of protection. It meant that the great body of the people were to undergo great privations and suffer ings, that they were to endure great distress, that they were to starve, that they were to be reduced to a condition harrow ing to humanity, and yet that the benefit to be derived from monopoly was so great as to outweigh all these terrible disas ters.—(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite had said if any odium attached to the sliding scale it was attached to a fixed duty. He admitted it. A fixed duty was open to all the objections of a sliding scale. He should. be ashamed to use arguments against the one and not admit them when he believed them to be as forcible against the other. He believed the Right Houourable Baronet would give him credit for that.—(Hear, hear.) It had been said by the advocates of a fixed duty that the landed interest sustained peculiar bur dens, for which they' sought to be remunerated. Now he would answer that statement in two ways. In the first place, he denied the assertion.—(Hear, hear.) Let them prove the existence of those eculiar burdens ; but they always shrunk from the proof.—(Cheers.) Let them prove the fact, and then it would be more economical to remove those burdens directly.—( Cheers. ) He was glad to hear Right Hon. Gen tlemen cheer, and he hoped when they proposed relief, that those Hon. Gentlemen would vote for them ; and then they would say that their representations were fair and honest, and that the agriculturists had been unfairly dealt with.—( Cheers. ) But he should say in the first place, "prove your grievance."— ( Hear, hear, and cheers.) One said he paid the Poor's rate.; why so did he (Mr. Roebuck). Another said he paid the county rate. Why, so did he.—( Hear, hear.) The landed interest did not pay exclusive burdens, and he be lieved that the quota of the rest of the claimants would be found to be larger than what Hon. Gentlemen supposed. But if the landed interest did bear particular burdens, it had no right to make that an argument in support of monopoly, but it should come forward and lay its petitions on the table of the House, explain its grievances, and ask for a remedy, and. not, as was said by an Hon. Gentleman on his side of the House, ,who said that in every vote he gave on the Corn-laws he cone suited his own private interests, ask for relief on private grounds.. That Hon. Gentleman was not content with mak ing that statement once, but he reiterated it several times. But then came the saving clause, that he always voted for the interests of the public. He (Mr. R.) supposed that any Gentleman on the opposite side of the House would say the same.—( A laugh.) All persons agreed in these generalities. Every body working for the benefit of the public—in that there could be no dispute—( A laugh)—were all virtuous ;no body could doubt it. —( Renewed laughter.) He (Mr. R.) had not those Roman virtues. Such was not the conduct which ought to be pursued on public questions, for, if so, every gentleman opposite might say he best consulted the interests of his country by consulting his private advantage. He (Mr. Roebuck) would beg to remind them, that they. were not sent there for their own private interests but to vote for the public advantage, and not in the vain hope that by consulting their private interests they might do some good for the country thereby. They were there to represent the community at large, and they must act as if their own interests were but a fraction. Those interests, to be sure, might enter into their calcu lation, but still they were only a fraction. If that were true he entreated Hon. Gentlemen opposite, when they came to a full and fair consideration of the question before the House; to discard all peculiar considerations, and to give up such local virtue as had been displayed by the . Hon. Gentleman to whom he alluded, - otherwise they might imagine that in consulting their private interests, they were also consulting those of the public, and that in maintaining the Corn-laws, they maintained the pros perity of the country. The public abroad thought they were sent to Parliament for their benefit, end if they looked to their distress with the calm philosophy with which every man should regard the sufferings of the poor; and if they maintained such stoicism, a time for reckoning would soon come.—( Hear, hear.) That time he believed to be about to arrive, for in his heart he thought that at the present time the working classes of the country were looking on at the great experiment 'which was being tried with the most intense inte rest and anxiety.—( Hear, hear.) It had been said that they took no part, or at least but a small part, its this agitation, and he believed it.—( Hear. hear.) But (continued the Hon. and Learned Gentleman) let no man deceive himself. 'The working classes see there is a great experiment going on with respect to two great classes of society—between the landed interests and that which is called the mercantile interests. First, they are waiting to see if the landed interests have a due regard to their situatiort-:-whother they will . voluntarily yield to the distress, and to the demands which. that .distress creates. —( Hear, hear.) Such is their expectation from the landed interests, from the mercantile interests, whom they regard as more peculiarly their representatives ; they are waiting to see if by their unaided efforts, they can so act as to compel the the landed interest to do them justice, if that interest is not of itself inclined to do so.--( Hear, hear.) If it should turn out that the experiment foils, the people' will come to two con clusions first, that you will not do them justice, and secondly, that you are not able to do it.---( Hear, hear, and cheers.) And if the people discover the weakness of the mercantile classes, the great body of the industrious portion of the community, seeing the weakness of that class in this House, will hope for their co-operation in other systems of agitation.—(Loud cheers.) And depend upon it that the people, not looking at it simply as a mercantile question, or as one of fiscal regula tion, but as one pregnant with the mind of a great statesman, will in time compel that statesman to meet the wishes of the age, and force him onward, as they did before when he lagged behind the knowledge of the age.—(Cheers.) Now, he is again lagging behind and refuses to join in the onward march, and he may be left behind now again to recover the opportu nity he has lo,st. This I believe to be the time not only for the interest of the people, or the mercantile classes, but for the statesman-like capacity of the Right Hon. Gentleman.— ( Cheers. ) On him, and on his head alone, will be concentrated the onus and the odium of his failure to relieve the distress of the country. He will have shown either that he has not had the sagacity to understand that distress, and the mode of its relief, or that seeing and well-knowing it, he has not the cou rage to suggest it. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman resumed his seat amidst loud cheers. Lord ASHLEY said it was not his intention to enter at all into the discussion of the matter now before the House, but he (lid hope that in a matter quite personal to himself the House would bear with him for a moment. At five o'clock to-day he had been informed that the Hon. Member for Sheffield (Mr. Ward) in his speech last night had thought fit to make something in the nature of an attack upon him (Lord Ashley ). Net having been in the House when the Hon. Member deli livered his speech, he (Lord Ashley) had not the benefit or the pleasure of hearing it, but as soon as he had information of the terms in which the Hon. Member had alluded to him ( Lord Ashley), he resorted to the only channel through which he could obtain an accurate statement of the lan,Luage attributed to the Honourable Member. (Here the Noble..ord drew forth a newspaper from which he was about to read, when a cry of " Order, order, was raised from various parts of the House.) The Noble Lord went on to say that to the expressions of the Hon. Member, as far as he (Lord Ashley) could recollect them, from having learned them through the channel he ad verted to, he was prepared to give the flattest contradiction.— ( Hear, hear.) He understood that the for.. Gentleman said that the great object of the Hon. Member for Knaresborough's (Mr. Ferrand's) speech was to revive discussions which ought never to have been raised—to engender passions of the worst nature—to set master against men, and to produce a state of things that must be attended with confusion, and that that speech was violently cheered by a Noble Lord, meaning him (Lord Ashley). The Hon. Member thus charged him with co-operating in maintaining that bad blond and those bad pas sions, which, if foitered, would reduce the country to a state 1 of barbarism. Did the Hon. Gentleman kn ow w h e th er he 1 ( Lord Ashley) hearth the speech of the Hon. Member for Knareshorough at all ?—( Hear, hear.) Did lie know whether lie was preen( in the House at the time that speech was deli vered.—(Hear, hear.) Now certainly of a charge of that nature it would have been but courteous that he should have had some previous notice. What would the House think when he mentioned that he had not heard the speech of the Hon. Member for Knaresbenough at all ? Nay, more ; he (Lord Ashley) was not even in the neighbourhood of the House during any one moment when that Hon. Member was speaking. He would now leave it to the House to decide which - of the two had exhibited the greater, tendency to restore bar barism.—( Hear, hear. ). Mr. WARD took the earliest opportunity to express his deep regret at the mistake which he had unintentionally com mitted.—( Hear, hear.) He certainly could not possibly be f N l e ng i ls or b c ir to setting cover : , v i h m i ch to r st i t a p i p it o s se it d ‘s t , o as re i p a r t c h s e en p t aw a er s o ta f t t e lle o did not believe with that confusion, if he (Mr. Ward) to certain sentiments i N t V b a u r Ward) ) remained r h expressed im t o and in such a way as to warrant the Noble Lord, it misrepresented to it. If in doing so, he him (Mr. Ward) in alluding the fact was as he had stated. his The Noble implicitly Lor d. as Ire (Mr. satisfaction t,thewhole with of thteheNoble expressass ' o e h n t i t s . D s sincere divide.") i e v e i r d e t , f , or the circumstance, and trust the Noble Lord would pardon him. e newed crier of "divide," and o e m E m o e a r r e d e in e t he House, which lasted in a much noise in the body of explana tion Lord o o ar r fd d t sh A Ae S NH H Da L nO E . Ni l; e e rn : pi:ereeras.i_eidd(ff Iris .hct orr uie hint hweh fora ehna considerable tmhbe 6obi he L 0 r d,Lord's length voice of greater or less degree throne, 1 1 h er t let a t ough the petition to the sliding . scale; and preferred reached us, he was contending t L u o n r e d's in s a p u e d e i e b h l , e a i n a d r th en e d g er a t ry. ten were of opinion,ritsheatfrtohme presented to the. House f t warranted in from the Presiden e t r of th was no Liverpool _ assuming from aL T i r fiv a ex d re e pdw ( A dl l u r et . xyp l. : a ey l se i s o te U i c t h hh e a° r : e t i ) tiiirteY it that the merchants of had wi yett h extensivelyi that a t t h t e h l e as t proposed engaged a d g a e y ds s ehem received eof new sliding scale was not a vast improvement on the old one, commerce would not • ' . and that great advantages it. lie (Lord Sandon) preferred . duty on corn to a fixed in trade, wh o stated t communications hat t from houg h gentlementhe they the anY description G °t o h v e e r rnnient ladvantageous, inasmuch as it would give a liberal amount of protection to the agriculturist, and secure to the revenue what had hitherto gone . into the pocket of the foreign grower.—( Hear, hear.) What did Hon. Gentlemen tell them had been the effect of the present Corn-laws ? They said the effect of them had been to bring into cultivation an immense quantity of land, which v,,as oefx(clueetyd,ing y never ought to have been cultivated. What, then, could be expected from a repeal of them but that that land would be thrown out of cultivation, and, as a necessary consequence, that hundreds of thousands of labourers would either be thrown upon the poor-houses, or upon the manufacturing districts, where the price of wages must necessarily be lowered?—( Hear, hear.) It behoved them to be exceedingly cautious how they dealt with that question. Even if they were ultimately to have a much lower protection, it became them, as wise states men, to proceed gradually. They hail already proceeded to , ' considerable extent in lowering protective duties. He believed ' - EBRITAR Y 17, 841.. it was the opinion of a great number of commercial men that the effect of the proposed measure would be to supply food at a cheaper rate. That would be done without impairing in any important particular that great sinew of our national wealth and prospe rity-the agricultural interest of this country.-( Hear, hear. ) He firmly believed that this great interest might be protected in perfect harmony with the manufactures and trade of the country ; and that by the judicious compromise which he con sidered the present to be, they would at once promote the cum , mercial interests of the nation, and remove those feelings of virulence and inflammation among the different classes of so • ciety which had unhappily been excited. He would not trou ble the House with any more remarks on the snbject under its consideration. He had risen merely for the purpose of ex , pressing, as he was entitled to do, his belief that commercial men were satisfied with the measure before the House, and that they conceived it to be a great boon ; and that, in the lan guage of one of his Liverpool correspondents, they hailed it as " large measure, made in a very liberal spirit."-(Cheers.) Lord IN ORSLEY said he was anxious to explain to the House the reasons why he could not give his assent to the motion proposed by his Noble Friend the Member for the City of of London-( Cheers from the Ministerial benehes)-and he was also anxious to exptaisesto 'the House why, as a Mem ber representing a very large and very important agricultural constituency, he could not also give his assent to the measure proposed by the Right lion. Baronet..-( Hear hear, from the Opposition.) As the motion immediately before the House was that proposed by his Noble Friend, the Member fur the City of London, he would first state why he cou:d not support that motion. He did not believe that the evils ueder which the country was labouring, were to be attributed to the opera tion of the sliding scale, or that it was the Corn-laws which had caused the distress that existed in many parts of the coun try.-( Hear, hear.) He could not' shut his eyes to the fact, that the manufacturers of this country had been for a length of time increasing in wealth, under a system of Corn-laws simi lar to that which now existed.-( Hear, hear.) He could not forget that they had seen such an increase of manufacturing prosperity in this country, as had not been witnessed in any other part of the world.--( Hear, hear.) Although distrsss certainly existed to a great extent, it should be recollected that railroads, and many other large speculations, had chiefly ema nated from the manufacturers.-( Hear, hear.) He foresaw that great evils would result from the existence of a fixed duty ; but if he were obliged to consent to a fixed duty, he would ra ther acceA a low fixed duty than a high one, because, while there would a fair chance of adhering to a low duty in times of scarcity, a high one could not be maintained.-(Hear, hear. ) But, on the other hand, he contended that, if a low fixed duty was to become the law of the land, the agriculturists would find it impossible to cultivate the land so as to produce sufficient corn for the consumption of the people of this country. As he had already stated that he did not and could not approve of the plan proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet, he might almost say that he was quite at a loss to account why the Right Hon. Baronet had proposed this measure at this time ; because he recollected in the last Session, before the dissolution of Parliament, when Hon. Gentlemen, whom he saw opposite, were on that side of the House, they, in common with himself, were constantly presenting petitions to that House, praying that there might be no alteration what ever in the Corn-laws.-(Opposition cheers.) Their consti tuencies at that time prayed that there might be no alteration ; and, if he mistook uot, many of those Hon. Members, when they went before their constituencies, stated that they would not consent to diminish the protection upon agricultural pro duce. He could refer to the speeches made by several Mem bers, to their constituencies, upon the hustings ; and if the consti tuencies in the agricultural districts were not told explicitly that there would be no alteration-if a loophole were left open for the purpose of enabling them to support the Right Hon. Bart. when he proposed his alteration, adhering to the principle of the sliding scale, still an impression was left by Hon. Mem bers opposite upon the minds of their constituents, that no alte ration which might be propoced to be made in the Corn-lasss would receive their assent.-(Cheers from the Opposition.) The Hon. Member for Rutland stated to his constituents upon the hustings, that " the present laws could not be altered for the better."-(Continued cheering.) The Hon. Member for Northamptonshire was "prepared to stand by the present law." -(Cheers.) The Hon. Member for East Norfolk said that " in maintaining the scale of duties the national safety con sisted."-( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Suffolk de clared that he should " oppose any attempt to alter the pre tent system." His colleague also was opposed to any altera tion.-( Loud cheering.) Now he hoped that those Hon. Members who had • proposed those opinions in the pre sence of their constituents, and had led them to believe that they would not support any Ministry who proposed to diminish the protection afforded to agriculture, would join him (Lord Worsley) in opposing the measure of the Right Hon. Baronet.-( Loud cheers from the Opposition.) And not only had the Hon. Members, to whom he had alluded, in timates! to their constituents that they would not give their support to any measure which would diminish the protection of agriculture, but they had also conveyed an impression to the minds of the agriculturists that the Right Hon. Baronet was not lik-ly to propose any measure which would have such a tendency; for, when it was perceived that,the county Members ' would form the strength of their party, the county Members being opposed to a change, it was inferred from that that the oh! protection would be continued.-( Hear, hear.) Although he ( Lord Worsley) had opposed the propos.tion of the late Government with respect to a fixed duty, because he had yea tured to say that he approved of their general policy, an at tempt was made, on the part of some gentlemen in his county, to persuade the electors that he was no longer fit to represent them.-(]tear, hear.) He stated to his constituents that he had no confidence in the late Government, as regarded the protection to be afforded to agriculture; but, at the same time, he stated that he did not believe that the Right Hon. Baronet opposite would continue the existing protection ; that although he had with much pleasure frequently heard him say that he would maintain the principle of a sliding scale, yet he was not satisfied that the old protection would be continued.-(Hear. ) He was frequently told in his own country that he misrepre sented the Right Hon. Baronet--(Cheers from the Opposition benches)-anu the consequence was that there was an oppo sition raised against him at the election ; but he was proud to say that he stood there the representative of 5,400 persons who had voted for him under the impression, and who had sent him there for the purpose of maintaining for them as great a pro tection as they enjoyed under the present . law.-( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet, in his opening speech, had given various reasons why he had thought it necessary to bring for ward his measure. He stated, however, among , other things, that he did not think that the Corn-laWs Were the cause of the manufacturing distress, and that it could be accounted fur by ' other causes; and the only reason he (Lord Worsley) could find out for the proposal to alter the present system of Corn laws, was that the agriculturists thought they might be altered with advantage. Now, if the Right Hon. Baronet were right, as it appeared to him (Lord Worsley) he was right, in not at tributing the distress that now prevailed to the operation of the present laws, and if the Right Hon. Baronet the :ncretary for the Home Department were correct in saying, as he did last night, that. the manufacturers were now comparatively prosperous, inasmuch as there were many new mills building, and many had lately been erected-if these things were so, he would ask why it was that it had been thought necessary to in troduce a new system? If the manufacturers were not dis tressed, why were the agriculturists to be deprived of their protection ?-( Hear, hear.) If these things were so, and if the Right Hon. Baronet proposed an alteration because the agri culturists thought the law ought to be altered, he wished to know why the Right Honourable Baronet had proposed his particular scale of duty ? Perhaps the Right Honourable Baronet thought that the agriculturists felt that the law might be so amended, because his (Lord Worsley's) Hon. Colleague (Mr. Christopher) had proposed a similar scale. In the month of October last his Hon. Colleague, addressing his constituents, said, that " it appeared to him, if he were cor rect in his estimate, that foreign wheat could be imported into this country at 365. a quarter, exclusive of duty; but that a duty of 20s. would be a protection when corn was at 365., as when it was at 50s. Therefore he would venture, with great diffidence, to suggest whether they might not greatly simplify the present scale, which he thought too complicated, by sub stituting another maximum and minimum duty, the maximum to be 20s. when the duty was 505., and the minimum to be ss. when the pi ice was 655."-(Hear, hear.) Now he would ask the Right Hon. Baronet whether he did not think he was wrong in the scale he had proposed, when he said that the pro position of his (Lord Worsley's) Honourable Colleague was so unpopular in the county in which it was proposed that he himself had introduced an amend ment to the measure of the Right Honourable Baronet ?- ( Loud cries of " Hear, hear," on the Opposition benches. ) Although it was his own proposition, so much was it disliked in the county which he represented, that he was himself about to amend his own proposition.-(Opposition cheers.) The Government seemed to draw their scale of duty, by taking the average to have been during the last ten years, 565. Ild. Now he (Lord Worsley) had taken the average during the last ten years, which he found amounted to 605., in the third quar ter of each year, that being the time at which the greatest quan tities were sold, because it was then that the merchant made his sales for the purpose of raising the averages, while it was the time at which the farmer had any corn. He would trouble the House with a detail of various quantities, He b,lieved that the quantity of corn sold in the first quarter of the year 1840 amounted to 949,156 quarters. In the se cond quarter it amounted to 860,484 qrs. ; in the third quarter to 1,121,339 ; and in the fourth quarter 982,830 ; but in the third quarter when the average price was 60s. therewas a greater quantity sold, and the merchant was thereby being enabled to raise the averages, whil e th e f armer was not benefitted by the high price, as that was the period at which he had this corn to dispose of. The Right Hon. Baronet stated the other night, that he considered the remunerating price to the farmer ought to range from 545. to 58s. B u t h e (L ord Worslev) had no he sitation in saying on the part of his constituents tWatthey would not consider that a remunerating price. He had heard it com monly said by them, that on the present system they would consider a fsir remunerating price to be about 60s. He would endeavour to show, with the permission of the House, that the proposition of the Government would not be beneficial either to the public or the farmer. By the scale proposed by the Government the duty at 545., which the Hon. Baronet stated to be a remunerating price, would be 16s. He (Lord Worsley) had taken the pains to ascertain the quantity of corn introduced during the last ton years, paying a higher duty than 16s. He found that in ttsg e ,year 1831, 622 quarters of wheat had been introduced'Sl 225. 7d. ; in 1832, there had been illtrodtited 166,127 quarters, paying a duty of 275. 10d. ; in 1833, 110,044 quarters had been introduced at a duty of 235. I Id. In 1834, 163,041 quarters had been introduced at 21s. 2d. In 1835, 47 quarters had been introduced at a duty of 275. In 1836, 997 quarters had been introduced at a duty of 265. Bd. In 1837, 210,254. quarters had been introduced at a duty of 20s. 9d. In 1838, 18,466 quarters had been introduced at a duty of 275. In 1839, 40,068 quarters had been intro duced at a duty of 18e. 9d.; and in 1840, 299,354 quarters had been introduced at '2os. Bd. It appeared to him that if that quantity of 299,354 quarters could be brought in by the merchant at a duty of 20s. Bd., in the year 1840, a duty of 16s, would not be a sufficient protection for the farmer. It should also be remembered that the merchants who had introduced that large quantity of corn in 1840 at so high a ' duty must be supposed to have made a profit by the transac- ' tion. His constituents said that the proposed method of taking the averages would not correct the defects which they acknowledged to exist in the present system ; but he thought that the averages might be correctly made up by taking sepa rate returns from the grower and the purchaser, and making one party act as a check on the other; and this being the una nimous feeling of his constituents, he trusted the suggestion would be entertained by the Government. The farmers ge nerally thought that the sliding scale did not give protection enough for wheat ; but still, after what had been intimated in the speech ofan Hon. Gentleman, supposed to know the inten tions of the Government, it was better than they had expected. But in the large agricultural community from which he (the Noble Lord) came, there were not two opinions respecting oats and barley, which they thought ought not to have less pro tection than the present, considering the great labour, ex pense, and preparation required to raise hat crop. No doubt the Government thought the sliding scale they proposed was the best, but others did not think so. He had in his hand a letter from Germany stating that the Gentleman whom Sir Robert Peel sent to make inquiries was laughed at for his ignorance and unfitness, for he (the agent) assured the merchants and farmers there, that if the. Corn-laws were repealed, imme diately their land would grow turnips and wheat.-( Cries of " Hear, hear," and question.) Hewould conclude by pressing the Government to consider the practicability of adopting some better mode Of taking the averages, for tothe danger involved in this part o f th e su bj ec t, hi s const i tuents l ooke d with more alarm than anything else. He knew that his remarks would give a handle to the opponents of a sliding scale, but still thinking that a fixed duty would '- most injurious to the country, as it could not maintain a sufficient protection and the farmer when corn was low, nor satisfy the consumer when ' prices were high , while justice might be done to both by a more stringent system oitstaking the averages under a sliding scale, he must on this principle oppose tho proposition of the Noble Lord.—(Cries of "Question," and cries of "Peel.") The Right Hon. Baronet was about to rise, but Mr. CHRISTOPHER begged leave to say a few words in • reply to the reflections of the Noble Lord, whore he must congratulate on his new born zerl in behalf of the agricultural interests. When he con sidered that at the commencement of the last ses sion, his Noble Friend had thought fit to vote for an address to the Crown, which attributed all the distress to the Corn-laws, he thought it would ill become him on the present occasion either to tax him with having deserted the interests of his con stituents, or to apologise to the House for coming forward to explain the course he had pursued. His Noble Friend had ) recorded his vote in favour of a Corn-law Administration, arid he thought, therefore, that it ill became him to accuse his Right Hon. Friend at the head of the Government, with supporting the agriculturists. His Noble Friend had been pleased to state that he (Mr. Christopher) was the first person who recommended to his constituents, the adoption of a maximum duty of 20s. on the importation of foreign corn. He did take an opportunity, at the commence ment of the last Session, when he thought not only his Noble Friend, and those who acted with him, but when both Houses were pledged to entertain the question of the revision of the Corn-lass, he applied his mind to the subject, arid offered the suggestions which he thought for the benefit of his constituents. He did not say that the maximum duty of 20s. should be levied on foreign corn. What he stated was, that that if foreign corn could be introduced in any quantity, ex clusive of duty, at the price of :As., that then a maximum of 20s. would be a sufficient protection.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") He stated, also, that if corn could be introduced in any quantity under 36s , that then the maximum duty should be 255., and he stated also that if corn could be introduced in any quantity at a lower rate that then the duty should be 30s. He had taken the opportunity of making these statements, net in any part of the county he represented, where he would be supported by party feelings, but he made it in the presence of many of the tenants of the Noble Lord, and whether he stated that the maximum duty should be 265. or 255. as a sufficient protection, it was not only well received but cheered by the persons living on the estate of the relatives of the Noble Lord, and it was not until six weeks afterwards when the Noble Lord, for the sake of embarrassing the Administra tion, chose to agitate the country, that his own tenants ever heard anything of a maximum duty of 20s. In six weeks however, after that declaration had been made, many letters were written by the tenants of the Noble Lord, and the con sequence was, that a panic arose from that agitation. This he would say, however, that since the proposal of the Govern ment had been put forth, even with all its defects, he believed from the information he had received from the county he re presented, the great majority of the county would rather accept the measure as it was, than be companions with the Noble Lord to reject that measure and the Government, and so t o leave the agricultural interest at the mercy of the Noble Lord, He should have other opportunities of addressing that House, as lie had given notice of amotion—(Laughter)—that when the House resolved itself into a Cornmitte, he should state to that Committee good and sufficient reason why the Committee should adopt a maximum duty of t2ss. in preference to the duty proposed by her Majesty's Government. Whether the House agreed to that proposal or not, so persuaded was he that it was desirable for the permanent settlement of this question for the benefit of the agriculturist, and for the benefit of those he represented, and whom the Noble Lord repre sented, that he would rather see the measure proposed by the Administration, passed without a single alteration, then see the agriculturists left to the tender mercies of the Noble Lord opposite.—(Hear, hear.) With respect to the course of conduct he had pursued, all he could say was, that he was not afraid to meet his constituents at any time, and enter into a contest with the Noble Loid before them.—(Cries of " Question, question.") The Noble Lord had imputed to him that he had acted the unworthy part of concerting with the Administration to overthrow the agricultural inte rests, and to compromise that of his constituents. Now, with respect to wheat, he had no hesitation in appealing to his Right Hon. Friend at the head of the Government and his colleagues to say, whether on any occasion, whether directly or indirectly he had ever made a communication with them until he had declared his opinion in the presence of his constituents ?—( Cries of " Question, question.") Lord WORSLEY, in explanation, observed, that in what he had stated to the House he had not the most remote idea of casting any reflections on the Hon. Member. Mr. GRANTLEY BERK E LEY said that he was not going to desert the landed interest, for fear being charged with at tending too much to tho demands of the middle classes. He thought that by adopting a sufficient fixed duty they would get rid of gambling specnlations, which pressed so heavily upon manufacturers, while the sliding scale did not protect the landed interest. Under these circumstances, and entertaining those opinions, he would support the Motion of the Noble Lord. Sir R. PEEL rose, amidst much cheering, and addressed the flouse as follows :—Mr. Speaker, Sir,—After the demand I felt it my duty to make upon the patience of the House in bringing forward the measure, I shall feel it incumbent to limit myself as much as the nature of the motion will allow, and I will confine myself to the issue raised by the proposal of the Noble Lord. lam a little surprised at the nature of the issue raised by the Noble Lord. I am quite aware that I have to contend against two classes of antagonists, entertaining two opposite opinions; the one led by the Noble Lord, the advocate of a fixed duty ; the other, conducted by those who are the decided enemies of all duty. Now, I was a little curious to know by what process those two classes of antagonists could be brought to range under the same banr&r. The Noble Lord I expected to affirm that a fixed duty ought to be preferred to a sliding scale. 1 heard much front the Noble Lord and those who support him in condemnation of those who oppose his measure, but they did not clearly, anounce their opinions. Concur, if you please, its what the Noble Lord has said ; reject I say, if you will, my plan, upon these considerations ; but if you bring forward abstract propositions, in order that you may come to what are to be the measures of Government, then it is fitting with the dignity and character of our proposition to put upon record, the great principles en which you found your ob jections. The Noble Lord has said to me, "it is very well for you to say this—you are in opposition, and are not charged with the functions andaesponsibilities of government, but you have been long in public life, you have the confidence of a large party, this is a great question, and has undergone repeated dis cussion, and the country wants to know the principles on whieb you would be disposed to govern." I did then expect that the Noble Lord, not uniting in the third reading of a Bill with men of opposite opinions for therejection of that measure, but at the outset, putting forth the .grounds and principles on which the measure could not be entertained, I did expect that the Noble Lord, after the eloquent condemnation I heard from him on theevils of ambiguous and abstract resolutions, I did ex pect, I say, to hear something more from him than such a relo lution as he has proposed. How those who advocated the prin ciple of no duty at all can vote for this proposition, I cannot understand. The mover of this proposition is an advocate for a fixed duty, and you may infer the character of abstract resolu. tions from the principles of those who move them.—( Hear. ) The Noble Lord merely affirms that this House, looking at the evils which have resulted from a graduated sliding scale, is not prepared to adopt the measure of her Majesty's Government, founded on the same principle, and which would be attended with similar results. Why, a fixed duty plainly lurks under these expressions.—(Cheers.) Your Mover is in favour of a fixed duty, and how will you, who are opposed to all graduated scales as mischievous, and to a fixed duty as a positive injustice, how will you agree with the ad vocates of a fixed duty ? Ambiguous as the terms of this mo tion may be, this I know, that it does involve a fixed duty, and nothing else; and how you can agree with it I cannot per ceive. Now, the motion the Noble Lord ought to have made is clearly this—with his principles—( A laugh from the Opposi tion benches) —Oh ! I only meant if he intends to carry out his principles.—(Tory cheers.) I pay, it seems, a greater compliment to the Noble Lord than his former colleagues.— (Renewed cheers.) Both the principles are at issue. The question whether a fixed duty is preferable to a sliding scale ; and if the Noble Lord had acted on his precedent of 1830, it is clear that the resolution he ought to have moved should have been this : —Resolved that no settlement of the Corn-laws can be permanent or satisfactory that does not include the principle of a fixeduty.—(Lou cheers.) d d Acting on the precedent of 1830, when it was very difficult to bring men of conflicting opinions to join in one common course, and unite in one common vote, that distinct kind of resolution was the one which the Noble Lord brought forward. But here, in this place, and at the present time, when opinions are even more discordant, the Noble Lord knows that he could not form a compact and alliance with men of such opposite views, if he had not connected himself with an ab stract prineiple, in order to bring those who are the opponents of all duties to concur in a vote, in the hopes of concealing from the eyes of that intelligent public, which, we are told, has its scrutinising eyes fixed upon us—to conceal from the public by this division, what is the real nature and extent of the difference between them. I.lly object to-night is not to maintain an argument with those who advocate absolute free dom. My conflict, if conflict it can be called, is with the de tails of the proposal of the Noble Lord. With regard to the general principle the Noble Lord has laid down, as the principle which should govern all legislation on this question, in thosegene ral principles there is no material difference between us. I agree with my Hon. Friend that the object that ought to animate us is the welfare of the great body of the people.—( Cheers. ) I cordially concur with this principle ; and that man cannot be the true friend of the agricultural interest who tries to get for it any temporary benefit by calling on the other classes of the community to submit to sacrifices in order that such a benefit may be secured to it. Then, with respect to the Noble Lord, he has told us that he would submit to any odium rather than do an injustice to agriculture. He said the agricultural interest was entitled to protection. First, en - account of the peculiar and special burdens to which it is subjected; and, secondly, it was entitled to protection if, in consequence of the long endu rance of laws originally and continuously defective, yet if, under the sanction of the Legislature, men have embarked their capi tal and committed their pecuniary interest on the faith of what the Legislature has done, then, said the Noble Lord, it will be competent for you to retrace your steps. Sound policy may enjoin you to retrace your steps, but considerations of equity and of justice command you to combine With the establishment of a better system a temporary protection, for these will have been fostered under the system you have built up. These were the sentiments of the Noble Lord, determining the course which lie thpught should be pursued with respect to agriculture. As I said before, I do not materially differ from the Noble Lord on these principles. Our difference merely is as to which will be the better practical measure to adopt ; and it is because I believe that the measure I propose, namely, a graduated scale of duty, varying inversely with the price of corn diminishing,--I admit the amount of protection to a cer tain extent now received, but guarding the agricultural interest againstcompetition when the price is as low as it is consistent with the interest of the consumer it should be, and dismissing theduty altogether, when the interest of the consumer requires its aban donment, a better principle than the Noble Lord's for a fixed duty—therefore, it is, that for my practical measure I do contend. A fixed !duty why the Noble Lord himself seems inclined to abandon it, he will have no sliding scale ; but, in one respect, he adopts it. The difference between us is that the Noble Lord slides on one leg.—( Cheers and laughter.) For with respect to a higher amount of duty, the Noble Lord is prepared to maintain a system of averages fur the purpose of determining when the duty at a certain point shall cease. Well, I think my plan ensuring that cessation, is better than the plan of the Noble Lord, because, as has just been stated in the able speech of my Hon. Friend, the Noble Lord's plan provides tuat at 7.25. there is a duty of Bs., but at 735., determined by the price of the averages, the duty altogether ceases. If opportunities of combination can exist; if it is so objectionable, that a duty shall aggravate the evils of high prices; if corn being at 70s. is an inducement to hold it till it reaches 735., in the hopes of getting the 35., what an im mense inducement to hold back ; and the practice on the ave rages will be found, on comparing the scale of the Noble Lord with mine, when a duty of 2s. in the price makes a difference of Bs. in the duty.—( Hear, hear.) And with respect to Ame rica—supposing an American, finding the duty remitted at 735., ships corn for this country, and the holders of corn here have poured it in, and availed themselves of the remission of duty, should it be their interest to raise the duty again, which they can do by combining, the American, who has imported on the faith of the duty being abolished, is met here by a duty of 8s , on account of the price having risen. Why he must be aware of the immense difficulties attending the question of a fixed duty,when after six months' deliberation, he proposes an amend ment, subject to almost all the evils of the existing scale. I think that whoever considers the conflicting opinions which have been given during the course of this debate by Gentlemen on both sides of the House, by Gentlemen representing both the agricultural and the manufacturing districts, must come to could be undertaken by any Government.— ( cheers. ) , no t- , 0 1'; trast the speech of the Noble Lord the Member for Li l t a h s e vs c , o utl u er si t o a n k ' e t s .h o a n t e h o e f wthheomuonsdtedritait eusltaarnedviosnienroouts tthaesk?_trait. sident of the Board of 'Trade.—( A laugh. ) late 'the shire with the speech of the Right Hon. Cientleinhaeothie.ardorne; 1 mean the Right Honourable Gentleman _ e. President of the Board of Trade.—( Hear, hear, and hee was whichonli • a l s a s s u t r e ni himht the Right R n i o g t h t i r I am sure the Right Hon. Gentleman will pardon them my mode of taking the averages, while it diminished thno,'9_,re raised the duty ; while the 'Noble Lord says this evening t" by my proposed change in the system of taking the a d _ e , intentional. — tie ( it was considered that the farmers would be preju the greatest alarm has been created in the agricultural the mode in which it was proposed that the averages oshould_.4 r n li a e n ar' to l' lc e l ar r a n i i' a t, e __; ; taken. I am surprised that the Hon. Gentleman PKT t s e , should give the countenance of his authority to the peel: e l :;o which have been excited on this subjeet• — ( For myself I disclaim any intention of affecting the _ L a -v , e L eges ,ed improperly by the system 1 have proposed—( Hear, he"% t sahe if on consideration of the subject 1 shall be convinced ttol effect will not be what I anticipate, 1 shall be prepared 02761._ any alteration which on consideration 1 may dee ed.6ol (Cheers). 1 propose merely to correct fraud, „ gree dy protection I may take for agriculture, 1 will tabeue____, and not indirectly by any unfair tampering 'the Noble Lord, the Member for Lincolnshire, sa ys thas are scarcely any two persons satisfied with the scale 1 13 1:713- : 0 for wheat, but that, with regard to barley and oats, - tp meets with universal condemnation. 1 think that, leatsomittsof the manner in which this plan has been received by Pe: op extreme opinions on both sides, and considering the with the _IN.. (thy of effecting anything like a satisfactory adjus t, j o wl the question of the -Corn-laws considering the s _ led advanced by th, advocates of tree trade on the one M i t utt e o - 0- by tne advocates of protection on tras other, 1 a./' t ee a sidering the different opinions which have been ao" P ode atts the extremes of both parties, I feel confident that ° t ad men of all parties—if not entirely approving of the d e r 0 the proposed plan—will accept it as the result of much an a . tb ,t i deliberation, rather than enforce extreme opinions, nt ssed they will infer from the manner in which it has been re des, by those entertaining extreme opinions on both ; 1 a s that on the whole there is nothing very unreasonabl e `il des and that if in itself it issit good measure it will be t e . ,, beta sirable that it should be adopted.—( Cheers.) it l L "j et -bes brought forward by myself and my colleagues, under t.:00 lief that on the whole it was , the most safe Andra:rests measure that could be proposed in the present a rtifict,..ate of our social relations. As I stated when I first propos:L e of measure, it has been brought forward, not for the purg e " - al protecting any particular class-not with a view of faLaaas' any particular class at tie expense of the others, but ri c k we believed that, on the whole, it was the measureg e ard culated to serve the general interests of the country.—( i a t eltl' I offer it to the House under circumstances of great ar c iast, as a great improvement of the existing law, and a coutP r ,110 which moderate men of all parties ought to aceel* Hon. and Learned Gentleman oppo s it e , in hi s s peech', e was throughout characterised by great me not to lag behind the spirit of the age, 7, 0 0 1 propose any lf measures, not to make any comproltd st principle, but to bring forward such a measure a5,.,57i,, fe) once stamp me with the character of a statesman.—("wite I must tell the Hon. Gentleman that I disregard that 0.01 I bring forward this measure as one calculated to effeetloo practical good. I do not pretend to bring it forward b oor announcit g some great principle from which the person ,was ing it forward may reap for himself some temperer): I : e vil larity, but which when carried will leave all the pract,_it.,) precisely where it found them.—(Cheers and laugni-,00 stand in a different position from that in which the o !Atis" Learned Gentleman stands. I stand in a different 1 1 70 to that in which the Noble Lord stands. lam trying° -It? a practical adjustment of this most difficult questi o °7-eiair easy for the Hon. Gentleman to say, carry out the great P . 041 pies of free trade ; but what do I find? 1 find mighty i°4 o ol which have grown up under the present systena. -- 1 0 tr cheers.') I find that, under the p r esent system, .„ t n,0101? two millions of quarters of wheat, and forty-five r' quarters of grain have been grown annually los country. When I think of the immen s e capital e° l oo°_, in growing this enormous quantity, what JT i pecuniary interests do I find involved— w hat complicate interests —how many families are there dependent of subsistence and for their comforts on the con tinuance es e present system ?—( Loud cheers.) Am I to di s regard th .. „,„o' terests altogether, and apply the principles of free trade,. s ie. to disregard these immense social and pecuniary interes"„ nether ? How many leases have there been granted,ps) faith of the continuance of the present system ?- - k 4 Ol O , Take the case of the tenant-at-will. Is it any ; a l liP to him to say this is a landlord's question ? His caP feee ig been embarked in agriculture, and any sudden influx a lo of corn must, and would, most materially affect him. OS, disregard him, what am Ito do with the leaseholders ?... t he many thousand leases have been entered into on the 1 00 the existing law ? F r 150 years past agriculture haL t tlis pre , ected. Can 1 disregard that fact? It is no proof tfd protection was wise in the first instance, but it is areisti touchinglightl those interests which h ave be e n establistl e t 'slo grown up under the present syst e m. The n a gain recellt,oo under the Tithe C ommu t at i on A c t. All y o ur Cale .;01j have been made upo n th e pr i ce o f corn un d er the estispr •tena. Then, again, with regard to Ireland, the N°JJJe„' 0d proposes to admit oats a t a duty of 3s. 2d. Does al e 0 think that it is either wise or just, without an hours' 11 9:00! the Sister Kingdom, which sends us two millions Ofqc . Site annually--is it wise or politi c , w ith ou t no ti c e, to adwLS t iei t an influx of oats from the Continent, as would eventuatsqs, her produce from the market, and which must ,101.) case if oats are admitted at 3s. 2d. ?—(Hear, hea r ' e ala, Sir, when you make an arrangem e nt w ith respect to . _ m g! is desirable also to consider what o ther produce is to he 7, - a by your regulation. I would wi s h to substitutt'ssai , principle of prohibition, in respect of other articles' M f 0 tion, one of protection.—(Hear, hear.) I find that posed duty would be, as regards Ireland, an absolut e tla",' , tion,—(llear, hear.) And, Sir, I find that there are; i leisa" interests involved, that it is our d u ty to adopt anY;4lle' f ' which may affect them, with th e greatest caution! tte i!ela p ; hear.) And I must say, that wh a t ever may be 14, a m mour of those who say that ther e ou ght prohibition or restriction on the importation of e r ',, , alSJE - e ,'s still of opinion, that if we act with regard to catelk,,oll• 9 - tiee, we should adopt that measure which will gt-e 27 0 10" share of satisfaction to all, and create no new se ersldtise, %es faction.—( Hear, hear.) It was in this spirit, - sit, t. t"; lift",a vernment brought forward the measurewhieh " tt ' e s el °` , il e fore the House in opposition to those who are adv°ejtilietts entirely free trade.—( Hear, hear. ) Ido bellev . O. did gest+ to be a great improvement upon the existing systems's:N:l,oo hear.) It is one which the agriculturist can accept .-rioo danger, and which will at the same time admit immense more advantageously to other cl a s s es than it is admitted?)')t sent. The Noble Lord spe a k s o f the imense atit of his plan as promoting our intercourse with the;, 3 oo • obo States, and of putting them upon the same footing a, v countries. The Noble Lord told us what an tags it would be to be able to carr y o n at . all times ale" trade with them.— (Opposition che e rs.) But' the 1 7h said at the same time that corn from the United Stall,, Otfl furnish us with corn at 475. a quar t er , e xclusive Of" it f yet the Noble Lord fixed the duty at Bs. the quartets ,etr would amount' to no less a prohibition upon American ci> 01 :1 that which I propose. But Ido not lay a stress up:Ml.os" rarisan. I only say that it would be a istoh nri i " l Spt e ; the constant importation of corn from the Unitr i ..; o O, —(Cries of " Hear, hear.") It may be less a prohiu" Or less objectionable than the present, but it is api ohibitio; ets; as regards the United St a t es .—( H ear , hear.) heiat‹, posed the duty, not because 1 d es i re t o pro mote the, to of a particular class, but because I thought it necessad o os the farmer such protection as would be sufficient to ea, oto A him to pursue a system of improvement.—( Hear, has been shown that the average production of corn is 45 " efeS, of quarters, and I th oug h t i t r i ght to give the f arm er ar it, ri, ragement to go on i n t h at course of production scitheigsoelt sauteeing to him a cont i nuance o f t h e sa me P every season.—(H ear , h ear .) Th e Ri g h t Ho°' eloy then went into a compa ra ti ve s t a t ement o f th e avetT e ; of corn at the port s , w hi c h h e sa id e ere c h ose n by Lord (J. Russell) as illustrations of his principle, a 5 ,1 1 4 0, 10 he (Sir Robert Peel) cont e nd e d wou ld g i v e for 1 0 0 - T d i average of 41s. 2d. per quarter. Well now, what l tao Meek say with respect to thi s ? says, that during„,.ele twenty-five years the average price of wheat has been per quarter. The average price of barley 14i. Pe r ; itr A cTli and the average price of oat s 10 s . 6d. M r . Meek Ve l a° of a regular demand in England fur foreign corn the I;Ps grown in Denmark would be considerably inereasesHe l i.rr that in passing a law for the importation of ,f o rleo r of I must consider in coming to that determinations to.strfS tent I shall affect the agricultural inte res ts by thy`" cs legislation. I must not consider what ma y b e the Piiie t od at the present moment s but what may be the future. c ds operated upon by increased imp rovemen t in railt,olol los , 0 4 other systems of transit. I take all th ese cOnsidet": t obj account, when I am trying to legislate upon this earii g t o rd: I hope and trust that my steps are legitimate. Now Mr . that the rate of freight from Elsinore varies from 3 5 ', „sags, a quarter. He says the prices paid for a number 0 ' .',o l , b st pears not to have exceeded for wheat 3s. 6d., for batl e t ltatioo ls. 6d. to ls. 4d. (ar we understood). I think I have r s ejgb,t i if w heat at Elsinore is 28s. 10d. the quarter, and the J r oar P t not exceed 4s. the quarter, that Denmark corn 6J's" introduced here when the price was much lower tba°o,o4ol 625. But then you will, perhaps, the quantitY f&pe,oo o mark is not material . -Hear, hear, from the 10'0 benches.) But Mr. Meek has calculated that fr° l "drat„ li to 300,000 quarters—and he says he should suPPt e ee tetis ; t .'slo l , would be the smallest quantity which might be eat': - ,raiee shipped to Great Britain in years of scarcity here--s•-seste es' when the prices were high, from one country al oo _ d ht. to the testimony of Mr. Meek 300,000 quarters tileast!re t petted—would be brought in in years of common' Vbe 00‘ say, then, seeing that this quantity of corn v/ 0 ,. 4 1;1/0,' from Denmark, do not discourage the home proshnisest t ee. tamper with their interests, by permitting the oa rst iatel t 0 $ mark totally to disturb your market by throwitl. o4. g , excess. On that ground I vindicate my duty of jet' protection personally intended for the farmer, Ism l o ir o pli prevent our being totally dependent upon. foreiesiiesste f hat hope is sincere. What I contend for is, that from abroad s h a ll b e supplemental, and that it' shs jhatia ) , t substantial that ou r ma i n h op i , e shall be upon 060 r A that as contrasted w i t h the supply of wheat , c - get from forei gn m ar k ets, to the extent of smile 7-fil . f . ,, 0 '25,000,000 of quarters, and if again you tell illej" el ssiiil t r o o":, look for the introduction of those 22,000,00 ":. corn, you only convince me that my 'proposition, is cs f or and that by it we should not be exposed t° A. e laeiV eci ee or to the caprice of foreign markets; for dePe° " e t t l iroa time may come when deficient harvests may be I ° o4 sehel, 0 tries as well as in this—the time may come, k g e 'ele,ol l .tbe ° will regret you had not taken advantage of slte' „, e a sOfr ee tie I now propose to protect your interests, and '''sea t ioher, yo o ' find you have relied too much upon the suPPlie ll s ostile- I,lo °l l tries, each of which, in turn, might be 7 s tit' and in times of scarcity impose art enorn m° k n o", will; duty upon their productions ; . t i s to the,ebir too that, in a question of this sort, exposed as _ t heie thins of seasons to such great fluctuations as p' of fr e e must naturally have the effect of rendering m i r `e c iple" 4 ,4 0 0 1 lions variable, depend upon it that the stria e '? as do ss i bs t t_ trade in an article of national subsistence, sac r t bel i e Lis! to, th e not be settled without danger ; and my fin" Of 0( 4 00 you rely so much on other countsies for a suPr ro ideee the lr, hostility or scarcity of those countries might I ch prise s (0' fatal results. Ido believe that the scale svni idet i e rt tween 545. and 60s. will admit of the h ea r.) aq..ijot quantity of corn, and that it will not induce Hear, 'b e arO take th e as will be injurious to the country.—(n e , Let or , s, tb n ts p - a p n e t r t p o a r s t ec o u f re m those al tfenriests instance,.—( Ch ee a r n s a s_i eo no s iaclter th pva_ersleofpo„; Take, suPP7 l d, e ate s e ;en i t b't with those hitherto proposed. scale between 645. and 725. times whieh, s l iek e ven °' oug sore. When corn is 625. a quarter, 1 t' he „ e asui i t hen to predominate.—( Hear, hear.) I th d that he i'llst abose 60s. a quarter, the interests oifikstheir,t,esesote,ifes ulep the grower ought to be overlooked, a° ssb r s. ) . men .4 m e e o d u ' ll e t n er c e e h n ee c rs o . % ) P . 4 _; ll ( fi th e u7r; :le t the consumer ought to p re dominate.- - ( l ' s s e e s e e,"Cen o t t 1.0 questionably a fair proteCtion. But how . the the pren 01 % ; say that my scale is no improvement really a delusion.—( Cheers, proPre%i 65 ,, to dia confess, surprised how Hon. Gentlemen t h _ e d the' toe hear,scales , amida n d i s r a n y n there ioal c i h s e n e o ra t . l r c w e I Pr' * th the 6 6s * of duty which I have liewfor rea the ai l o p seot of thin House, as compareheat is trot° w hereas 4:4 w shoa ld be 7s " quarter,seale. W When e np propose averagese that thepriceduty