The Sun. — London, England, 1842-03-24 00:00:00

Court of Directors, however, would 'appoint any future tiine for the discussion of the subject, he should be happy to postpone it till that time. Mr. Home said he thought this was not the time to press any matters relative to the finances of India. He thought it was tho duty . of the Court to keep up our character in India; and be wished Sir 11, Peel's finances were in as good a state as those of India. With regard to the origin of the war, he thought that could not be,discussed until the papers relating to the matter were before them. At present to speak of finance, when they were all mourn iug ;,he disastrous circumstances which occurred, he thought was not paying sufficient respect to those gallant men who had fallen in • ;their service.—(Hear, hear.) He hoped that having said so much the Hon. Proprietor would allow , the matter to drop.—(Hear, hear.) -; • Mr. §ALOMONS said he thought it would certainly be better to leay,e out matters of finance ti tl some official documents should be received, he thought it should be deferred tilt the calling of a special Court to consider matters in A ffghanistan. Dlr. Lewis hoped the lion. Proprietor would accede to the gene ral i pinion of the Court. Mr. TIIO3IBON thought it was not fair that the Hon. Proprietor should be interrupted in the manner he was ; he was atopt then by one and then by another ; he might have arguments to adduce which would convince all of the propriety of what he wanted. The Hon. Gentleman, as tar as he (Mr. Thomson) could say, was mutated by by feelings of mercy for them who were living, and whom lie did not wish to be sacrificed as their predecessors had been. Bnt " Man never is, but always to be blest," and so in this Court they always were be, but never were allowed to discuss the ques. Lion.—(Cries of" Question," and " Chair:") The CHAtam said there was.no question before the Court. Mr. Mauro; said he had a great deal of information on the subject, which might have induced Hon. Gentlemen to bave agreed to his motion. Under the circumstances, however, he was willing, to withdraw. it. Sir J. csmeneti , said that as what had fallen from the lion. Proprietor relative to the payment of dividends on stock might create some alarm in the breasts of those who were unacquainted with the matter, he begged to say that the Company were by no means in so disastrous a state as had been implied.—(Hear.) lie had thought it right to say this, that what the Hon* Proprietor bail said might not' go forth uncontradicted.—(Hear, hear.) . He believed the dividends were just as safe as ever they were. Mr. Weems° rose to call attention to a point of form. The Hun. Gentleman (Mr. Martin) had risen for the purpose of giving notice of a motion ; he then made a long speech on that motion;" now. he ( Mr. Weeding) wished to know whether in giving notice • of a motion, one Had aro , right to enter into its merits. Aficr a few words from Mr. WICRAM, .who thought that the Hon. Proprietor had pursued a correct course in this instance, inas much that he had given notice of his motion to the Directors. 141 r. SstomoNs gave notice that at the next Court he should Move that there be laid before the Court an estimate of the ex. ;muses of the war up to December, 31141; also a statement of the , loan raised in India, and rate of interest paid on it. • BATTA. • Mr. MULE said that he had heard that the 52d Regiment in In. dia had been deprived of their half ()atm. He wished to know it that was the case. He thought this was a l time to preserve good humour and cheerfulness amongst the soldiels. The CIIAIRMAN said there was no truth whatever in the state- mcnt.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. }lusts then gave notice that he should move at the next meeting for a copy of the orders of Government, respecting the ithdrawal of the half-batta. DISPOSAL OF PROPERTY SENT TO THIS COUNTRY. Mr. PALMER wished to know what had become of two pictures which had been sent as a present by the King of Oude,,to King William and his Royal Consort; as also two diamond 'necklaces, _ . and other property of considerable value. He had understood that part of that property had been sold on the Ist of May last. Ho should be glad to learn by whose orders that was done, and what had become of the proceeds. The CHAIRMAN said that as the Hon. Proprietor had not given notice of his question; be was not prepared to answer it. The Court then adjourned at Half-past Four o'clock. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, MARCH 23. The Loa. CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Wool sack shortly after Four o'clock. CORN-LAWS AND SUFFRAGE. Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from 1,300 inhabitants of Swansea, praying for a repeal of the Corn lifivs and Universal Suffrage. COURT OF CHANCERY. The NOBLE and LEARNED LORD then moved for cer tain returns relating to the arrears in the Court of Chancery, and said that he supposed that in consequence; of the recent alterations in the Court of Chancery, the amount of the arrears must have materially decreased since the last return. The LORD CHANCELLOR said that the Vice- Chancellors were now hearing causes which had been set down for hearing since Christmas last He believed many a them had been only set down for hearing within the last six weeks. Unless some arrangement nere made one of the Vice-Chancellors would not have any cause to hear in a couple of days. ROYAL COMMISSION. The Royal Assent was given by Commission to the Consolidated Fund Bill, the West India Clergy Bill, the Regulation of Apprentices' Bill, the Loan Societies' Bill, the Newgate Gaol (Dublin) Bill, and Nutford's Divorce Bill. The Lords Commissioners were the Archbishop of Canterbury, the Lord Chancellor, and Lord Wharncliffe. SOUTH EASTERN RAILWAY BILL. On the motion of Lord WHARNCLIFFE, the South Eastern Railway Bill was read a third time and passed.; MIDLAND COUNTIES' RAILWAY BILL. The Midland Counties'jtailway Bill was read a third time and passed. .• Several private Bills were forwarded a stage. EASTER RECESS. On the• motion of Lord WHARNCLIFFE, their Lordships then adjourned to Thursday, the ith of April next. - HOUSE OF COMMONS, MARcx 23. The SPEA.KER took the Chair shortly before Four o'Clock. CHESTER ROADS. On the motion of Mr. W. YOUNG the Chester Roads' Bill was brought in and read a first time. NORFOLK ROADS. On the motion of Mr. LOCKHART, the Norfolk Roads' Bill was brought in and read a first time. KLRKINTILLOCH RAILROAD. The- Kirkintilloch Railroad Bill IN'as read a second time. STANIIOPE AND TYNE RAILWAY. . Mr. MITT presented a petition in farour of the Stan hope and Tyne Railway Bill ; also a petition from the kime parties in favour of the Durham Junction Railway Bill. LONDON AND GR►EENWICII RAILWAY BILL. Mr. BARNAIU) brought up the Report of the Com mittee on the petition for the London and Greenwich Railway Bill ; and the Bill was brought in and read .a fir4t time. . - . CROYDON RAILWAY. The HON. MEMBER then presented a petition, signOd by Mr. Dyson, on behalf of the London and Greenwich Railway Company, against the London and Croydon Railway Bill. WARTHWORTII HARBOUR BILL. The Warthworth Harbour Bill was brought in and read a first time. BELFAST AND CAVE HILL RAILWAY. The Belfast and Cave Hill Railway Bill was brough in and read a first time, • CLERKENWELL IMPROVEMENT. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE brought inithe Clerkenwell Im• provement • Bill; which was read a first time. ' NOrrINGTIAM GAS. Tile Nottingham Gas Bill was read a, third time, and patsed. LINCOLN ROADS Colonel SIBTEIORP ,brought in the Lincoln Roads' Lill, when it was read a first time. STALEY BRIDGE GAS. On the motion of Mr.• T. EGIaITO.N. the Lords' Amendments to the Staley Bridge • Gas Bill were agreed to. • LEEDS IMPROVF AIENTS' BILL. Mr. W. BECKETT 1m0...0tt in the Leech Improve ' tam& Bill, which was re- 0 1 a fi rst t i me . INCLOSURE. Thu Killniugton 'nclosure Bill was read a second Liu; , BRISTOL AND GLOUCESTER RAILWAY. GRETA presented a petition from the Gloucester and Birmif.tham Railway Company, against the Bristol 8.0 Gloucester Railway Bill, which was ordered to be refi)rred tc; the Committee. / READING CEMETERY. HON. MEMBER likewise presented a petition from the x icars of Reading against the Reading Cemetery Bill. ELECTION COMMITTEP. Mr. PATRICK MAXWELL STEWART brought • up a Report from the Weymouth Election Committee, asking for permission to adjourn from Thursday next to Wednesday. The Hon. Member then moved that leave be granted to the Committee on the Weymouth Election to adjourn from Thursday next, till Monday the 28th .day of March. . After, a few worth from Lord GRANYILLE SOMER the motion was agrt.ed to. • NATIONAL EDUCATION (lII . 2tAND.) 11Ir.• FFOLLIOTT presented a petition from Sligo sc,,rainst -the system of National Education in Ireland, aml.praying. for support to the schools of the Church '• • Educational Society. 'Mr. CURRY presented a petition from Tyrone to:the siikt . effect. I'RESPATERIAN MIXED MARRIAGES. HON, Ml:mnEn likewise presented a petition from county, praying the House to legalise Preshy tAiterian Mixed itiarriages. EXPOR DUTY ON COALS. Mr. ORD presented a petition from Newcastle-upon ,- True against the proposed export duty on coal. ROYAL COMMISSION. The 'Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod then :tr . pearcd. .and summoned the House to the Bar of the HOusO of Peers, to hear the Royal assent given by Com . inission to certain Bills. ~~ The SPEAKER, accompanied by several Members, then . • left the House, and proceeded to the Bar of the House of • Lords for that purpose. The SPEAKER shortly afterwards returned and in formed the House that the Royal assent had - been driven by Commission to several Bills.—(For which see fords' • Repnrt.) Mr. SHAW presented petitions from Myddleton, and other, places in the county of Cork, against the National Education system in I re l an d. Mr. T.D:UNCOMBE' presented a petition from an • individual in the metropolis iim ' ainst the proposal imposing direct taxati on of parties who were not repre -, seated in that House, inastnuch', as they did not possess the electoral franchise. ' Dr: BOWRING presented n petition, signed by up ards of 800 inhabitants of Rothsay ' in the Isle of Bute, prsying fora repent o f the Corn-laws, free trade a nd a fall and fair re p resen tation of the people in Par tt liatthent. Mr. HUTT presented a petition from the sit' owners of Hull against the p ro p osed dut y u pon coals. 'l4- :sir HOWARD DOUGLAS presented ,a petitiCM "t o the same' e ffect ; a. petition against alteration in the dutylipint coffee. • the proposed Mr. JOHNSTON'preented five petitions from places e in Chester, Lancashire, and Yorkshire, praying fora . petitions fromr‘a i Lor t il A ie ß C it o y rn- BALDWlNpresented placlSZbi she. county J ae,pqWa and. the sounty:of. A trim, praying for a continuance of the protection the millers of Great Britain and Ireland. . . Mr. GIBSON CRAIG presented a petition from Swansea, praying tor a repeal of the Corn-laws, Vote by Ballot, and an Extension of the Franchise. Mr. HAWES presented a petition from an individual in Birmingham, praying for the total abolition of tithes. Mr. WAKLEY presented a pctition.from Archdeacon Bathurst, complaining that no measure had been brought in by her Majesty's Government for the settlement of the question of Church-rates, and suggesting three modes of effecting that object ; first, by the entire abolition of Church•rates, and the establishment of 'the voluntary principle ; secondly, by levying Church-rates for reasonable repairs ; and, thirdly, by enabling the parishioners to ascertain the necessary amount an nually, and- paying it out of the Treasury. The Hon. Member also presented a petition from the journeymen cork-cutters of Edinburgh and Leith, stat ing that, by the proposed reduction of duty on tbreign corks, they would be completely ruined ; and, as: no person had comp l a i n e d of the old duty, they entreated that that part of the new tariff might not be adopted. Thti- Hon. Member also presented a petition from Steplimi architect, residing in the New-road, complaining of the defective state of the present regulations with respect to buildi ngs , an d reques ti ng to be examined in Com m it tee on t h e su bj ect . The requesting also presented a petition from Alexander Brady, of the parish of Clerkenwell, complaining of the practice of making long•speeehes err almost every motion submitted to thii House. The petitioner said that those speeches had never conferred any benefit upon him, and he questiOne4 if they had conferred any benefit upon the public. He, thought it very desirable that some rule should be adopt ed for remedying the evil, and would suggest that nal member should be allowed to speak on any subject for a 4 longer period than twenty minutes.- —(Loud laughter.) The Hon. Member also presented a petition from twenty one journeymen smiths in the parish of St. George's 4 Bloomsbury,- praying for a total and immediate repeal of the duties on the importation of foreign corn ; and alsol a paition from James Gill, of Edinburgh, complaining of the practice in- the Court of Sessions of Scotland of giving decrees to prisoners in the absence of the defenders. Mr. O'BRIEN presented a petition from the county oi flown, praying that her Majesty's Government would direct their attention to the reclaiming of waste 'an*. Lord SANDON presented a petition from the Alein; bers of. ar,Literary and Scientific Society in Liverpool, cAlling the attention of the House to the burden under which literary and scientific institutions laboured in being subject to the window -tax, if they had a person within the walls for the purpose of taking charge of their pro- , perty ; they, therefore, prayed that the House `would take measures for the exemption of such institutioo from local and assessed taxes. The second readings of the Lunatic Asylums' Bill, and the Bonded Corn Bill - which were fixed for to-morrow, were postponed tillafterthe recess. ERRORS IN THE TARIFF. Mr. HAWES, seeing the Right Hon. the Vice-Pre sident of the Board of Trade in his place, begged to call his attention to the subject of a conversation which took place the other evening across the table, relating to the typographical errors which had found their way into the printed copies of the amended tariff. Those errors had occasioned great uncertainty, and no small anxiety, in different branches of trade, as it was impossible to know in what respects the intended duties were correctly stated, and in what instances they were printed erroneously. He begged to ask, when did the Right Hon. Gentleman expect to let the public have a correct copy ? He thought the country was entitled to have the correct information as early as possible. Mr. GLADSTONE would venture to say that ne unnecessary delay should take place.—(Hoar.) He was exceedingly anxious that no time should be lost in correcting the errors of the tariff, both those that were merely typographical, and those which had been committed by the framers of the tariff themselves; and he was confident that the corrections would be made during the recess. It was certainly impossible to make the amendments without great consideration ; but he fully expected that the approaching Easter recess would be sufficient to enable him to have a correct copy of the tariff in the hands of Members. TIMBER DUTIES. Mr. PATRICK M. STEWART wished to put a ques tion to the Right Honourable Baronet, the First 'Lord of the Treasury, respecting the proposed duties on colonial and other timber, and he considered the sub ject of his question one of great importance, not only to those engaged in the timber trade, but to the public at large. The Right Hon. Baronet was probably aware that there never was so large a stock of duty-paid , timber in London as at this moment—(Hear, hear) and in the Clyde, with which he was more immediately connected, there was a very large stock on which the duty. had been paid. He had had an interview with some of the holders of that stock this day, and they informed him that they were induced to take a large quantity : on hand, because they thought they were sure of the 1 differential duty remaining unaltered; and it was not the custom to bond - Canadian timber. The questiOn which he wished to ask was, whether it was the intention of the Right Hon. Baronet to relieve those parties, either by . a remission or drawback c of the duty, or by giving them time to get rid of that.. stock before the alteration of the duty came into eff ect. Sir R. PEEL had received communicatio;,s to the same effect, as to the peculiarly large amount of timber which had paid duty, aw i s Was at present on hand. The Honourable Gentleman mentioned one cause of that accumulatio;,. But probably there was another. The inteeti'on last year a n nounce d ,by th e Noble Lord opposite(Lord John Russell) to impose a duty of 24s. ; ,per, l oa d upon C anad i an timber, led those persus to speculate in taking in a large stock, with tats hope of escaping the duty. if the duty had been raised in the meantime, as they expected, the increase would not be levied upon that timber.— (Hear, and allaugh.) The Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Stewart) asked whether it was his (Si r R. P ee l' s ) intention to allow a drawback on the duty paid ? His answer was-Mot certainly not.—(Hear, hear.) There had been b e f ore this a system of drawback in the Customs which ope rated as a warning against extending. it . to any new arrangement of Customs' duties.—(Hear, hear.). He (Sir R. Peel) had pretty good reason to know what were the difficulties which attended commercial reforms. He had received communications from several timber Merchants, to the effect that trade was so much depressed that there was no demand for timber, and. reductions of price had taken place to the amount of 4d. or Ad. per load— that even with that sacrifice it was impossible to sell Ca nadian timber. Now his answer to that was, that they should look for a remedy in the general improvement of trade which the reduction:of duties would effect. Ik had no. intention of allowing a drawback, but he would give a. gre4ter interval before the operation of the new duties than he had at first contemplated. Although the va rious articles of the. tariff did severally occupy the atten tion of all the confidential advisers of the Government , connected with. the Customs, yet it was impossible, in such large; reforms, that the arrangements could, be compk&d at once, and exactly adjusted, in respect to all. As to Baltic timber, all the communications which he had received showed the importance of the intended reform.—(Hear, hear.) But he was perfectly 1 convinced that colonial timb e r cou ld h o ld it s groun d in the market under the new duties.—(Hear, hear.) : lie repeated, that he would not allow a drawback, but that he would give as long an interval as would be consistent with the interest of the consumer. He would do his best to repair cases of individual wrong, but he looked to the general improvement of trade as the surest 1 means of remedying the inconvenience complained of by those merchants. ADJOURNMENT OF TILE HOUSE. On the reading of the Order of the Day for the Com mittee gni the Corn Duties Bill, Sir R. PEEL said, that as he could not expect to make any progress . in the Bill before the recess, so as to scud it to the Lords, he should now (as he stated his , intention last night to do) move the postponement of the order to Monday, the 4th of April. Mr. HAWES, with re:Tect to the timber duties, ex pressed his satisfaction .with the announcement of the Right Hon. Gentleman's intention to allow a long inter val before the operation of the new duties. But he wished to call the Right Hon. Gentleman's attention to the pre sent mode of taking the duty, which, in the opinion of the trade, ought to be by bale, and not by measurement. Sir R. PEEL said, he had to strike - a balance between the consumer and the trade ; but he could not hold out any' expectation of a long interval, which would have the effect of conferring a temporary monopoly. upon those whO had large stocks en hand, as well as causing a suspen sion of trade. As to the mode of taking the duty, there was no difficulty in taking it by cubic measurement on timber in the log ; but he thought that in the case of deals there was the grossest injustice occasioned by that mode of measurement, which had also the effect of exclud ing the timber of tome nations entirely from our market: He had had tome communications with gentlemen on the subject of presenting impediments to the revenue, and affecting its collection on all classes of timber, and the question was under his attentive consideration. . . HAND-LOOM WEAVERS. Mr. WOI)EHOUSE gave notice, that after Easter he would draw the attention of the House to the Ileport of the Commissioners in 1841 on the condition of'the hand loom weavers; also that he would move for certain re turns respecting poor-rates, county-rates, and other im posts. THE BISHOP OF JERUSALEM. - Dr. BOWRING said, that although he had fur the present withdrawn the notice he had given respect ing this Prelate, he (Dr. Bowring) was sorry to learn that some of the events he had apprehended had already occurred, in consequence of the precipitate sending of Dr. Alexander to Jerusalem. A report had reached hith (Dr. Bowring) that . the Bishop had been treated with Much ill-usage. •He (Dr. Bowring) wished to - ask the Right Honourable Baronet .whether such a report had reached the Government ; and if so, whether the Government had taken any measures to protect the person of the .Bishop, or- for his removal from a scene where it would be very difficult for him to guard against - the hostilities of the various Christian sects, and of tha Jews? Sir R. PEEL was aware that in some parts of Syria efforts had been made to stir up hostilities against, the mission, but no account whatever had reached the Government that the Bishop had- been ill-treated. There might no doubt be a hostile feeling against the Bishop, but he (Sir It. Peel) had received no account to the elect that his personal security kad been endano•ered. AND PROBATE DUTIES. LEGACY Mr..ELPIIINSTONE gave notice that he would, after Easter, move that the legacy and probate duty upon real property should be of the same amount hereafter as that to which personal proertyis now liable. TEMPERANCE 1N IRELAND. . Mr. CALEB'TO WELL begged leave to ask the Right Tronourable Baronet, .the First Lord of the Treasury, whether he was in possession of any official information from which. ho might infer that habits of ten:iperance were, or were not, progressively extending among the Pecielo of Ireland ?---(Hear, hear). • 2 . Str It-PEEL sAidi thitt 1144 as. ootinvss4stfion of Any official information upon the subject, end he bego4 leave t ` \~~ Y THE SUN, LONDON, THURSDAY EVENING, MARCH 24, 1842 to add, that he had not, on any former occasion, expressed an opinion on the matter. Ile had said that there had been of late a considerable increase in the spirit duty in Ire land, but he dared say that the spirits were taken with a due regard to temperance.--(Laukhter.) C LIU It C EXTENSION. such a tax as the income tax. The measure pro posed by the Right Honourable Baronet had caused the utmost disappointment., and the explanation given by the Right lion. Baronet of the manner in which ho pro posed to apportion the taxes, was equally unsatisfactory.- -(Hear, hear.) He looked upon the measure as one of great injustice ; but at the present. moment, when all those things were susceptible of calculation, he did not see what reason a Minister of the Crown had to come down to that House and propose a measure imposing a tax upon property not more in proportion than the tax he proposed to fay . npon annuitants, traders, and pro fess•onal men.—(Hear, hear) He, (Lord R. Grosvenor) would never consent to levy those taxes according to the Measure proposed by her Majesty's Government. (Hear, hear.) Having now stated his Aiews, he would conclude with regretting that the Right Hon. Baronet should have spoken in so acrimonious a manner on this grave question, particularly when referring to , the Noble Lord near him. After a most eareful consideration of the whole question, Ids (Lord It.. Grosvenor's) duty was to vote against the resolutions of the Right Hon. Baronet. Mr. C. BULLER could not better begin what he had to say on the subject before the Hause, than by expressing his entire coincidence with the sentiments of the Noble Lord, who very properly censured the acrimonious tone, and the party feeling, that had been given to this debate by the conduct of the Right Hon. Bart. the Member for Tamworth.— (Cries of " Oh, oh," arid " Hear, hear.") Mr. HAWES begged leave to ask the Him. Baronet, the Member for the University of Oxford, whether he intended to bring forward at an early day his motion on the subject of Church Extension? Sir R. H. INGLIS said that he had stated, on a former occasion, that it was his intention to call the attention of the House to the subject after Easter ; but he could not say whether he would be enabled to do so at an early period. He would, however, fix a day as soon as he Might find convenient, and he would give the Hon. Member and the House due,potice on the subject. On the Order of the Day fOr the second.rcading of the Public-House Bill being . moved, Lord MAHON said he would not object to the Order. being fixed for another day, provided he had suflicients notice ; but he could not consent to the second readin on that occasion. The Order of the Day was then postponed. In reply to a questiim from Mr. .FOX MAULE wit revect to Turnpike Acts, Sir J. GRAHAM said he had given notice a few day ago of the intention of her Majesty's Government to; introduce a general Turnpike Act and that measure , of course countervailed the operation of any present, Acts in relation to turnpike roads. Mr. WAKLEY said, probably there would be no ob-i jection to the Pub is-house Bill being read a t.,econdi time oiA that occasion, as it did not appear to be opposed.; lie (Mr. C. Buller) would explain what he meant, foi• he was nut in the habit of making charges without being able to support them. He must say, that if ever there were a grave question deserving to be considered, with out any reference to party feeling, it was the present ; and if ever there was a person who should have sought to give such a consideration to such a discussion, it was the Minister who had brought forward a plan of so great and important a nature as the present.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. C. Buller) must say that the conduct of the Right Hon. Baronet had, in many respects, disappointed him, it was so different from his usual moderation and fairness. In the first place, he (Mr. C. Buller) thought the Right lion. Baronet pressed forward his measure with precipitation; nex to hat the Minister who brought for Ward such a plan, should have held himself open to any ete ration which might have been suggested to him in the progress of the discussion, instead of pertinaciously saying that he would listen to no amendments, but would consider his plan as already perfeet.--(lnterrtiption from the Treasury benches.) He had certainly heard with regret the,determination of the Right Hon. Baronet to adhere to all the details of the measure ' • he was sorry „to find, for instance, that he still seemed disposed extend the meaStire to the case of terminable annuities. Sir JAMES GRAHAM said as measure inter- i fermi with the authority of the Police Commissioners,' it had been submitted to their inTectipn, and the Reporti of the Commissioners had, not yet been received. WAKLEY thought th'at it would be a great ad vantage if that measure could be advanced one stage. CO:WRIGHT BILL. Sir R. PEEL, in moving that the order of the day be read, asked his Noble Friend (Lord Mahon) to postpone the committal of the Copyright Bill in order to give him; (Sir R, Peel) an opportunity of bringing forward his re strictions relative to the income tax in the Committeti of Ways and Means. Lord MAHON felt great reluctance at postponing his. measure, because he was aware that on former, 'occasions the postponement of it would lead to its defeat. Nevertheless, considering the importance of the measure of his Right Hon. Friend, he would not. bring on any discussion. He hoped, however, he might !'be permitted to have the Bill committed, pro forma, to enable him to move that it be re-committed, when he intended to introduce several amendments ,and have the Bill reprinted ; and if the .1 - louso would consent to that plan, he would fix an early day after Easter for the discussion. He must still further complain of that tone of constant recrimination towards the other side of the House, which the Right Hon. Baronet had introduced—those constant appeals to the political feelings of his own party, and those constant assertions, repeated over and over again, that our difficulties Were caused by' some great miscon duct on the part of his predecesSors.—(Cheers from the Ministerial benches.) That cheer, which met him from the other side, was just one of those party displays just one of those party cheers—which, he would say, ought not to be elicited in the cause of that discussion, and which he thought the Right Hon. Baronet had taken too much pains to call forth.—(Hear. hear.)' He should say, with all respect for the Right Hon. Baronet, that he did think his conduct in the course of the debate had borne too much the appearance of that of a Minister who would not venture to rest his plan upon the mere claims of justice and of good policy, but who endea voured to carry it by the force of party feeling ; and who, in order to meet that ominous silence which had saluted the first announcement of his income tax, and that still more constant silence which had constantly greeted his new tariff, had had recourse to party feeling, and the exciting of his supporters to go with him,_ in order that they might obtain a triumph over their poli tical opponents. It was with great reluctance that be (Mr. Buller) made any observations of that kind, because he knew that it might appear unbecoming in him to presume to cen sure the Right Hon. Baronet. He would not have expressed those opinions if he had not sincerely felt them, and if he did not really deplore the time which the Right Hon. Baronet had consumed upon the subject. Not oae other word, how ever, upon that subject, It appeared to him that that was much too great a quest ion to be settledby mere political considers. tions on the party interests of the day. He was not yielding to any desire to exaggerate the case, when he stated it was not a question which merely related to the Budget, or to the finances of the year, but which was likely to exercise au influ ence upon the whole financial policy of this country for an unli mited period. It appeared to him that the proposal of the Right Hon. Gentleman to introduce an income tax in time of peace was the most important invention ever introduced in the financial history of this country.—(Hear, hear.) He did not wish, on that occasion, to indulge in any praises of the Right Hon. Gentleman, but still he was bound to give him credit for the boldness of his scheme, and the great ability with which he had brought it forward.—( Hear. ) He also gave bins credit very sincerely for his honesty. of purpose. The proposal was not that of a man who - wanted to tilde over the difficulties of the moment, or to avoid collie sion with a great evil. But further than that he could. not go. It seemed to him that great, and able, and honest as the scheme was, it was still but a great mischief, and, in his opinion, it was the most rash, unwise; and pernicious measure which had ever been prpposed in the financial history of this country. This was no question of hoW they should get supply 'for a single year. The Right Hon. Baronet distinctly proposed that• the tax should continue for three years. Now, was there,any Gen tleman in that House who supposed that, if it succeeded for three years, the experiment would rest there?—( Hear, hear.) He did riot intend to inipute any want of candohr to the Minis ter who proposed it ; but he believed that, if the plan succeeded, whatever might be his feelings at the time of its adoption, it would not end with three years. It was far too convenient a plan for raisin.. ' the supplies, far too easy a mode of getting over the Budget of the year without proposing new taxes and getting into collision with powerful interests, merely by proposing an ad ditional half or one per cent, to the income tax. It was far too easy a mode of making up the revenue to be discontinued after it had once been tried. It must be viewed as a great change in the financial system of the country, substituting, as it did, direct for indi rect taxation. He should perhaps fall into the error of re peating the objections which had been made to the income tax by Gentlemen on that side of the House. He thought that these objections were confined almost entirely to an in. come tax—a tax upon uncertain and fluctuating income.— ( Hear, hear.) He did not believe that Gentlemen on that side of the House would object to a property tax—a tax in which the income arose from realised property. But there was one remark which he would make on the subject of a property tax,as disconnected with an income tax. Certainly if the owners of property in that House—if the landed proprietors in that House—chose to place a tax upon their own property, and not upon that of others, he would say that that was a very just, a very wise, anda very noble measure. They had undoubtedly a right to do so, and no one would gainsay their right. He would remind the House, however, of 'the answer returned by the two Bishops to James I. when they were asked by that King whether he had any. right to take their money without their consent. The first Bishop, Bishop Williams, a man of ex treme civility, said, " Undoubtedly all they had belonged to his Majesty, and his Maje s ty sa id he h a d a right to take wh a t d , h e chose: The King then turned round to the second 1.31:h0p, who appeared to be a more independent sort of man, l and asked him what he thought of the matter? His answer was a memorable one, and somewhat applicable to the present ease : " Your Majesty has undoubtedly a right to take my brother Willlatfies ttioneyi because he gives you his con sent."—( Cries of " Hear, Ileaf. h l In the Mlle way, if that House came forward and offered to pay a property telf out of their own income there was little fear that the professional ant! trading part of the community would object. It must be borne 11l mind that, after all, the two propositions were closely connected. When he opposed an income tax be was convinced he was practically apposing a property tax at the same time, because he did not count upon that magnanimity in the two Houses of Parliament, whiCh would induce them to propose a property tax without an income tax. The objections which hut been made were objections to an ikicome tax, and to those objections no satisfactory answer had been given. He felt that he was fully justified in that assertion, for however lucid and full might have been the explanations of the Right Hon. Ba ronet anti the Chancel :or of the Exchequer, yet with res t ect to the oldeetlons that had been made, nothing had been done to wards removing them,--(Hear, hear.) The first objection to an income tak itt ablating injustice—the amazing injustice of taxing realised property in the same proportion that they -taxed incomes depending 'ttpiJalli,e greatest casualities. You VIA tht gentleritin pkeptitY itfillnds,_ei:land, which is his own, and descends always unimpaired and to llieiaeieii:n e u.nt , . to his children. Was it just or equal to C9flle 911 tlll man of a limited income for life, or limited even for a shorter period limited income dependant froth year to year on his exertions ) tor this tentintlatice his health' tif his professional success and to hid iimbiint as they the leiidtid cif tanddd Property ? And t *itY lit WWI! It Was to be taken would preVe its injustice in a remark able manner, In the case of a profeslional man, yeti tax all his gains, say for one year; ill another Cue troll do not tai tall that a man geti iii dith yeith Hest : did Like ihat leeched a strik ing it - Aqaba tit thl.S. &Apposin a professional man gains 6,9D01. ih 'oile year,' he would lay that by, but atiother man getS 5.,000f. as.a legtiek, alid Whit WO the eddrse , piirsued with ire rd 3o the bate lbgd,By Of and the suiii of 6,0001. kid by . The latter was taken as the income of the year, and they took from it 1501. a-year tax, while the 5,0001. legacy was considered as the capital of property; and Dill s taxed aF cording to the income beritell from iti his e itiught m o ot ", iikfittiy ; It Us itrilei to come on thii_b who were Oak yi , preearious professional gains, and talte.frottithint th e tam'e portion of the 'earnings On depeiided, at they raid foie the reVertVe of `4; c4ili and fortune, tat irohen i ded ntaupaired to his posterity. He would not We. the case of lawyers, but the case was particularly hard with respect to physicians, on account of the veal) period of life during which they could is ti it pl-Otidrft. Its had been told that Lilo pekaiti tit a physician's life ma tieVef inure than fifteen years ; iii this respect riu 'other profession Was so badly off. On small traders, captains of merchaht ships, and all pefscilas of attiall rind precerldus gains', this injustice Slid ifiequalitY the iticonie tax would be enol. He %Id ll'Ard Sic answer to the next objection to the threw over this objection in a few words, but on a former opposition, more excitement, tAk- , s-lts inquisitorial nature. The Right Hon. Gentleman, occasion it was only got over . after the petitions of millions of ;non of the income tat led to a people. In 1806 the imps- l a e g it r t e o a t t e h r e e d lig larger amount.of pendent', thdr 6 . The . Right Hon. Gentle gate ofh 4thsettcoonngdeurcAtlionfi3Ntrleymobbe; any y thLH as o u u r s e e, si a n n e d e the year WOO: He thought the same slices would produce the same effetts.s4 Hear; heat. ) Gentle man had ilitinclOded rib modification in the machinery. He Said It WAS that introduced by Lord Landsdowne, which he sup posed would render it more agreeable to perms on his (Mr. C. ltdiier's) side of the:House. ;hey were connected with 11 . 1 4. Nate Lord. Rut what „copplained of wa s kWh 1111, Cn (1 . 1 b efore,. and would he that it had caused to likely . to Vs tdt e•• • " 't he thil4 olnectirm, be _had_ to the ♦ In l eilAt i ti tiaronet was, that the tax was one ofan eitteedinEly demoralising nature, and would riflerriflergreat in ducements to frauds by enabling one man . td ttie, mid and another to overstate ills means.—( near, hear.) Such practices hall taken place under the operation of the old tax, and were they now grown so much more moral th a t the evils of tho:nid svgens were not,to be apprehended now? --(Hear, hear.) He would state one instance which was given in the debate on the property tax in 1816. The whole profits on the manufactures in Manchester had been asseS.Shd at only 300,0004, and the assessment on the profits of Manufactures in Glasffow whibh were only half of those in Manchester, was 600, 0001., being d ou bl e the amount. ( Hear, hear.) Was it probable then that , ever, supposing Glasgow was not fairly assessed, Manchester mu at net have been assessed under the proper amount, as it • only paid onerfourth of what Glasgow paid? Was it not likely that such frauds would take place again, and that, every person . weuld attempt to avoid the tax in. eykrir possible way? A great deal had been said of the merits the measure, because it avoided taxes on consume , Isle carrot todities, and, therefore, did noel press on the working ;' classes.; tut 4i4 not the tax fall upon th e f un d whi c h employed 1 Lord JOHN RUSSELL was favourable to the gene ral objects of the Bill, and suggested to the Noble Lord the propriety of entering into communication with those interested on the subject, so as to obviate many of the objections which had heretofore been made to measures of a similar nature. Lord MAHON had already entered into several corn-, munications with interested parties, and he trusted that the present measure was more free from objection than any that had hitherto been brought forward on the subject. the working classes?—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") I which the Right Hon. Baronet had not alluded, namel y , that , r Hero Sir' R. Peel made an obser ation across the table, which lof lowering the differential duties.—( Hear, hear.) That, he did not reach us.] He hoped he would be favoured with an ; believed, was the real resource of the country at this moment. answer to that. Could it bo denied that that tax would fall ;—( Hear.) He had heard no argument on the other side upon the capital by which the labourers were maintained ? i to convince him that, at best, half the deficiency might not have --(Hear, hear.) A struggle was now going on between I been supplied by lowering the differential duties on timber, capitalists, and the wages .of profit were retlaced to the lowest 1 sugar, and coffee. That was a cer t a in resource—there was no amount. In the present state of things profits were extremely ' speculation about it ; the certain increase of consumption must small, and the means of employing the working classes greatly ! have brought a large increase of revenue. This was the plan diminished, and it was not likely that a tax of 3 per cent. would ' that was open to you ; yet this plan was entieely thrown over, be any augmentation of those profits, or afford any inducement ' and why ? Not from any regard to the people—not fom any to employ . capit al in the various branches of manufactures. regard for sound principles of finance, but simply from a regard The fifth objection, and which appeared to him to be of great ('to large interests, whose monopolies they did not dare to moment was, that an income tax had never before been proposed touch. He wished to allude to one argument of the Right in time of peace.—(Hear, hear.) The last income tax was i lion, Baronet, as to the duties on corn, which he thought proposed in time of war, when the capitalists could not go I rather a strange one to be used by ono who represented hie abroad. They were now about to try it at a time when any I Corn Bill as tending to relax the trade in corn, and to lower man of fluctuating capital could remove to any portion of the the price of the article. The Right Hon. Baronet said he could world he liked.—( Hear, hear.) The measure had a direct ten-. not reckon on a revenue front corn, because the increase in dency to drive capital out of the country, by inducing the mer- , the customs from this cause must be set off against the dinainu chant to' transfer his capital to other countries where it would ' tion in the general excise. But wiry must this be set off ? Be not be so severely taxed.—( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. cause. under the present system, if a large revenue arose from Gentleman must be aware that such an effect had already been corn, it was a sign of corn having risen to a very high price; it produced in some degree. The Right lion. Gentleman could I was a sign of great distress in the country ; it was a sign of net be unaware that, during the last JO or 12 years, British there having been a bad harvest; it was a sign that a man must capital to a tinge amount had been transferred to Germany, , pay 70s. and 735. a quarter for corn, before he could get any ;to Belgium, and to France ; and the Right Hon. Gentleman bread to eat;; and, oqcourse, if he expended so much io corn, was now, by the imposition of this tax of 3 per cent. on income, he had less to lay out in other' articles, and, therefore, the excise actually adding to the motives for the withdrawal of capital from fell off. The Right Hon. Baronet thought the Corn Bill the country. It appeared to him that all the objections which would render the corn trade steady, and fix its price at about could be urged against an income tax wee of tenfold force as 60s. and 635. a quarter. If that were the case, it might be against the present proposition. Ihe first objection to the fairly assumed, that the falline off would not be so great. But income tax was its exceedingly small amount. There might i.e this was the price they paid for keeping up monopoly. On a sonic argument fur an income tax where it was attempted to subject so popular with Gentlemen on the other side of the raise a great portion of the revenue by it. There might be House, as monopoly was, he should not venture to say a word some argument for a, , , income tax, where, as was the case with against so sears d a thing ; but he would venture to mentiozi Mr. Ricardo's proposed property tax,.seine great national effort one argument which, it. struck him, ought to have sonic was to be made to raise a revenue for the capital of the country weight with Honourable Gentlemen opposite. They were to attempt to pay off a considerable portion of the national making great sacrifices to keep up the monopolies of corn debt. 'That was worth an effort; but when the Right Hon. and sugar, but these were almost the only articles, Baronet reposed to impose this tax merely to raise a sum of which the new tariff lelt wholly untouched. All the smaller 3,000,000/., all the objections against such a tax were of ten- interests were touched freely, and what did they think would fold force. The evils of an income tax did not consist in the become of there monopolies now that others were struck down ? amount of revenue raised front it, but in the inequality, the How would these remain when they were not propped up by injustice, and the inquisitorial nature of the machinery, any others? The Right Huts. Baronet, the Member for Dor • and the same objectionable machinery must be used, whe- cheater, and the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of her Ma ther the amount raised by the tax was one million, or jesty's Government, held different language as to the duration one hundred millions. An additional objection to the pre- of the Corn-law and Sugar Duties. The Right Hon. Baronet, sent proposition was the shortness of the period for which the Member for Dorchester, was very careful to disclaim finality it was proposed. That did away with the - only argu- with respect to the Corn-law, and the other Right Hon. Bare ' intuit that could be adduced for imposing a tax on income net with respect to the Sugar monopoly, had used such ominous derived from profits, as well as an . ..income 'derived from pro. words as " temporary," and " for a time."—( Hear, hear, and perty. Mr. Pitt's argument was, that the man who derived laughter.) He did not know what the sugar interest could an income from profits ceased to pay when he ceased to re- expect except that their fate was put off fur a year, and indeed ceive his income, while the man who derived a permanent in- that was the general understanding.—( Hear, hear, and laugh - come from invested property still continued to pay. Now, if tor.) Could they really expect that their monopoly would the tax was continued for three years, this argument was - ,eorn- stand great and .powerful as they were ? (Cheers.) Formerly, pletely done away with.—(Hear, hear.) A man whose in- indeed, when the beautiful system of their ancestors was in full come was derived from an annuity, terminable at the end of operation, those monopolies were backed up and surrounded by three years, would pay precisely the same amount to this tax others. Talk of the corn monopoly then, and the as a man deriving an income from an invested property, which shoemaker started up and feared for his mono would last for the whole of his life, and descend to his children poly of shoes to the colonies.—(Loud laughter.) after ]riot.—( Hear.) He thought this, als ', a most ill-chosen Talk of the sugar monopoly, and the straw-bonnetmaker was period for proposing an income tax, on account of the great and frightened. Thus was one monopoly backed up by another, acknowledged distress of the country. The inquisitorial ma- ' and it had its effect on the electoral body. But now the ehinery for collecting this tax, which might be tolerated in a Right Hoe. Baronet, the Augustus of his time, came down to period of prosperity, must, in times of distress, be productive sweep away those paltry monopolies of straw and trifles, and of extensive ruin. It must also be productive of extensive they were to be all exposed to the competition of foreigners.— mischief, that in a period of distress there should be a tax on (Cheers and laughter.) The Right Hon. Baronet was de the employment of capital. There was another point which sirous to clear away the paltry rubbish of minor monopolies to struck him as of importance connected with the present pe- erect the new mansion of free trade, but the hideous, staring, rind. The machinery of this tax, always objectionable, was Gothic deformities of other monopolies he would not touch.— particulurly so at present, when party feeling was so much more (Cheers.) But did they not see that they were endangering violent than it had been in the time of the war.—(ilear.) those great monopolies by consenting to destroy the minor Who would be the per sons to ascertain a man's property ? ones.—( Hear, hear.) If tfcalegon's house was burning, their Why, his neighbour, chosen by the Government of the day.— own was the next.—(Cheers.) He only wished that while (Hear, hear.) He conceived that great injustice would be their mouths were open to gorge almost the whole tariff, done through the influence of party.spirit amongst those persons they would consent to swallow a little free trade in sugar.— in small communities. The last objection which he had to make (Hear, hear, and laughter.) He wished that instead of an was rested upon the ground of the motives for which it was pat income tax being given them, they were to get a - free on—the disastrous news from India, anti the reverses which trade in sugar ; but he looked at the step that our troops had lately suffered in that part of the world. He was taken as one of the. most important character. thought the Right Hon. Baronet underrated the effect of this He thought their could not be a more deeply mischievous tax upon the oninions of foreign Powers.—(Hear, hear.) view than that of the Right Hon. Baronet.—( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. 13aronet admitted that it was unwise to do that He stated that with perfect sincerity, and he trusted he had which in the eyes of foreign Powers would seem to be a ma- convinced the House that, at least, he had taken up those opi nifestation of alarm. But this tax was never imposed but when niona upon no light or insufficient grounds.-- (Hear, hear.) the country had suffered some disaster, as in 1798, and when it Dr. BOWRING said, as he intended to vote against the was subsequently re-imposed upon the breaking out of another proposition of the Right Hon. 14aronet, he wished to address war, with the same motive; and, therefore, he would not a few observations to the House. In the first place, he wished doubt that waive, on this tax now would appear to be an act of to state that he was in favour of direct taxation , because he alarm.—(Hear, hear.). On all these grounds he thought he conceived it possessed a great variety of advantages. He might fairly come to the conclusion, that however unpopular the knew of no system of taxation which was so equal tax might have been in former times, it would be much more in its bearing upon all classes, so economical, and which, so now; and if the same feeling had not yet been ex- at the same time, would bring to the Treasury so large hibited against it as in 1816, when its operation was an amount of revenue as the system of direct tuxation— fresh in men's minds and experience, he still felt that ( Hear, hear.) If equitably laid on, there was no system of it would not come into operation without exciting as much op- taxation rnore just or more calculated to afford the population position—(Hear.) A great portion of the people Would look . of the country that relief which, under pressing circumstonces, upon the tax as imposed, not merely for the purpose of recruit- they had a right to expect. Indirect taxation was to a very tug the revenue, but effecting that without having recourse to great extent in the hands of the individual who was taxed. It other and more legitimate modes of taxation, and to the rodue- depended upon the powers of consumption, and gave the Exe tion of monopolies. His (Mr. C. Butlers) greatest objection was cutive a most despotic power. It gave to the functionaries who foended on the mere circumstance of its unpopularity, an unpo- were invested with the power of collecting the revenues, an polarity which experience had shown would go on increasing' influence almost despotic. Before he consented to a system of while it continued to be levied, in consequence of the inquisito- taxation, such as was proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet, he rial nature of its machinery. That was an argument which (Dr. Bowring) should see that the proposition of the Right might, in some degree, apply to all direct taxation, and lion. Baronet was not so vexatious or inquisitive as it was. He certainly it did to a great extent ; but, above all, was afraid of agreeing to the resolution propo se d , because he it applied to a taxation of whic the machinery thought that by doing so, he should be removing all check on was so peculiarly odious. He must say it appeared to him an' extravagant expenditure.--(Hear, hear, hear.) The Right unwise thing, in a Government which took so large a portion Hon. Baronet hart greatly understated what would be of a man's income from him for public purposes, to let him the results of the tax. Since the tax . had last see the exact amount which he paid.—(Ministerial cheers.), been imposed, twenty-six years had passed away, That doctrine elicited a cheer from the Right lion. Baronet," during which ie resources of the country had been greatly who seemed surprised at what he (Mr. C. Buller) stated, but; developed and its commercial relations had been extended, and the only cause of surprise was, that in taking a Conservative; yet the Right Hon. Gentleman took as the groundwork of his course, he (Mr. C. Buller) should find himself opposed to a' calculations the amount of the income of the country 26 years revolutionary course, on the part of the Right Hon. Baronet.' since. The House of Commons, by affirming the resolution, But it did certainly seem to him (Mr. C: Buller) very unwise would be placing in the hands of the Right Hon. Baronet a in the Government to take so large a portion of every roan's! much larger sum than had been calculated on. It would be income from him for public purposes, and at the same time let' giving an encouragement to increased expenditure. He ( Dr. each individual see the exact amount which he paid ; but more. Bowring) would acknowledge that he was not sorry to ace a de especially it appeared to him exceedingly unwise, when so ficit in the Exchequer. It was a security for economy—that large a portion of income thus taken from the subjects. security would be removed and the Treasury would be so re of the realist went not to support the public estab- plenished from this tax, that the Right Hon. Baronet would lislsments, but to_ pay the national debt. (The have the means of doing., vast deal of mischief, of maintaining Hon. Gentleman here wetted his back on the gallery, old abuses, and of introducing new ones.. When once direct which, together with the indistinctness of the tone in which he taxation was established the revenue could be increased in the at the moment spoke, rendered hies very imperfectly heard.) , simplest possible manner ; when once the machinery was per- We understood him to say that if direct taxation were imposed fected by adding an additional penny or three halfpence, the tax to any considerable extent, and people saw that they could hot might be increased by a million ; and when they recollected get rid of it, they would turn from direct taxation and look to how the impot fincier in France had been increased by being freed from the national debt as an only means of relief.. the addition of an occasional centime once now and then, It might be said that that was out of the question, but he must he thought the House ought to pause before they sane confess that he had apprehensions that such would be the case, tinned the resolution proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet. Those were the arguments which the Right Hon. Baronet was' The Right Hon. Baronet was about to throw open the gates of obliged to use when he defended the malt tax, and he (Mr: immorality and mendacity, for people thinking the tax not a C. Beier) thought that the whole history of English taxation necessary or a just one would seek to shirk and evade it by showed whether it was a wise thing to draw it froM every ingenious method they could think of, indifferent whe indirect taxation. Since this Revolution the land tax had ther the act were right or wrong. The Right Hon. Baronet been got rid of—one of the next taxes that were given, would do better if he placed the legacy duty on real pro up were the assessed taxes. 'these were given up since the perty. Still it must be acknowledged that his tariff made a people were better represented in that House. The house tax great step towards commercial reform.—(Hear, hear.) But and half the window taxes were taken off since. There was anoe he (Dr. B.) was sorry that French articles were left untouched. ther matter which he (Mr. C. Buller) wished to mention to the Without reference to the conduct of France, we ought to House, that was the state of the law with . respect to the taxa: follow the sound advice of Mr. Deacon Hume, and do what tion of stock in trade. Under the Act of Elizabeth there was we felt to be just and right, whatever foreign nations might no doubt that " stock in trade" was as liable to the payment of do. The duties on brandies anti silks from France ought to rates for the poor as any other description of property, but owing be reduced, not for the benefit of France, but for the benefit to the difficulty of collecting the tax, an application was made of our own people ; at least that on silk should not be per to the Court of Queen's Bench, to ascertain whether " stock in nutted to exceed what the Act of Pailiament intended, which trade" was liable for poor-rates, and when it was decided by that was 30 per cent., while, in reality, it amounted to 60 per cent. Court that it was as liable to the payment of those rates But he was glad to see that we had acted in a mutual spirit as any other visible property, the very next 'Session an towards Tuscany, to whom we owed much, and who had set Act of Parliament was passed for the purpose of ex- the example of free trade within her limited sphere. But empting that description of property altogether.—(Hear.) .we ought not to continue the 5 per cent. on customs. The His opinion was, that if the income tax were now imposed it 4s. on coal exported was wrung, and he was sure it would be a would be made permanent, and increased from year to year, failure ; it would do great injury to our shipping, and give a and that instead of being an improvement in the finances of the great advantage to Belgium, which a,e, present carried on such country, it would place the national debt on a most precarious a severe competition against us. Xt would certainly destroy basis. 'The Right Hon. Baronet seemed to have greatly un- our coal export trade. No doubt the tariff of the Right derealculated the revenue he would derive from the income tax. Hon. Baronet contained some good items, still, objecting to He had also miscalculated the amount derivable from the old the tax on principle, he (Dr. B.) must vote against the reso property tax, without considering the increase of wealth of the lotion. country since. In 1815 there were assessed 170,000,0001. Mr. S. O'BRIEN would vote for the resolution of the Right of property, from which 28,850,00 01 . were exempted, leaving Hon. Baronet, because he (Mr. O'Brien) remembered it was a clear remainder of 141,150,0001., which, at 7d. in the pound, on the principle so often contended for on that side—that was would produce, instead of 3,500,0 001 ., 4,100,000/., being at a property tax. He also thought the Right Hon. Baronet jus least 400,0001. more than the Right Hon. Baronet calculated. 'tilled in proposing the tax, for the exigences of the State re• This was under the old property tax. But had the nation quired it. As far as the expectation of deriving increased re made no progress in wealth since, admitting that the rental of venue from a reduction of the duties on sugar and timber went, land seas not higher now than in 1815? He (Mr. B.) he thought they had arrived at the maximum point of re-tue hail returns to show that the gains and profits arising from pro. tion ii, the duties un colonial sugar. With respect to timber fessional and mercantile pursuits had greatly increased since the question, he presumed, was whether a preferer ce that time. In the four years ending 1815 the lezaey duty was should be given to increased taxation on timber, as a source of paid on 26,000,000/. of personal property. I n t h e e our years revenue, or to the system of direct taxation now proposed by ending 1839 it was paid on 42,935,000/.—( Hear, hear.) the Right Hon. Baronet, for admitting as he (air. S. O'Brien) There was no reason to suppose that the legacy duty bore any did, that the revenue could be derived from the duties on tim undue proportion to the amount of property ; end he thought, ber, he must however say, that that could only be obtained by therefore, they should take it for granted that both equally in- imposing increased duties on that article. The Noble Lord, the creased. He did not, however, rest upon that alone ; and Member for Sunderland (Lord Howiek) seemed to think that , there were o ther data to corroborate his statement. They had if they carried out the system of changing the differential duties i „„ e -led since the war, 25,000,0001. of taxes, besides the pro- to its utmost extent, they would obtain a large amount of r " ru a eo . ; ; add the revenue now derived from the diminished nue ; but it seemed to him (Mr. O'Brien - ) that the Right. pees, e , • - 10,000,0001. less ; so that the increased con- Hon. Baronet, in proposing to review the tariff, meant to do all sources was on `-d enabled us, to a certain extent, to that the Noble Lord could effect. It was true that '25,000,000/. NI rnptioti of the country •r..- It seemed to him, there- of taxation had been remitted since the war, and that no one etiake rip fait dikiinishe,d taxation. - - - , king for a good deal had laid his finger on any of these taxes for the purpose o f re foie, that Ole Hot 11811 }Reediest was b:.. 7rtieularly im- Dewing them. Would they renew the Post-office duties ? No more money than he vilkild ifidf: Ile prcrUk4.... , "re dis- one would deny that the reduction in that source of revc press that upon the Hauge, beeausd ill f;tv'emtitent ~,,..„,„ - rine was attended with the greatest general benefit. Would they `em the house tax? Why all the country would b e poled to be extravagant, they Would not tie tile taaa extraties. ' st that tax too. Would they renew the bee r t ax ? eats if iliac had 4dlooo/: or 500,000/. inifre theh thq f i rud eal. ' re--. culated on for niCeihsle ihgr eXpenditiare. What, be Wottftl of not- 'tom the weight of such a tax would fall wer e ask, was the necessity for an ititesteads' ohs' at the present tiro- Thesse tenon v... " classes, who were not represented in that ment ? He had no doubt that, if the ner3dietles 61 t'he' nation among the humble,. Q O'Brien's) mind, the Right II li. rceptired it, if we were engaged in an expensive wit 1* Avi Hosese, and in his (Mr. t.. -osity in not renewing that tax. •- great object ; ilia eountry would submit to. such a burden. Berens!! lead shown great gene. '.h had been suggested by They Oritrltl sal it vtas utaltht, but that they should bear its He would refer to another tax, wane_ hid to throw all th e iiiinstid—tliat it itas inquisitorial, but that they should the Hon. alematet" fey Lambeth, who w,_..-ntleman recorn stioalli /.0 thl4t Irterinvgitiellet=- - that it was burdensome, burden on the landed inter est : That Hon. bee; they came butt that It was better to endttfrt that burden than mended the levying of a tux tosses y.- persons when , ~,s t in tti be ,dvOuri II a, foreign array. But he should soy in the into the possession of land. Of all those none were Sop., flr4t, ilal4, tliA the 1 0 .,iglit Holt. Baronet,- In attempting to jus. principle as the tax p r op osed b y the Ri g ht Hen. Baronet, be. tify his proposal, had eltra*rigkiiil)•ekageratCd the necessities cause every. person at all able to pay must contribute to it. of the country ; and that he had, in the Seethid tildeei fallen into He (Mr. O'Brien) had therefore no hesitation in acquiescing in an equally extravagant depreciation of its resoureet Hes saw the general principle of an income tax. With respect to what had nothing in the state of our finances which could give rise to the been said against taxing the profits and emoluments of professions 14iigiiiige held I:/ the Right Hon. Baronet, as if the country he (111 r. O'Brien )thought that those profits ought to b 3 taxed, but Were placed in difficulties Mina whieb s it could onlyle extricated at a lower rate than-other sources of income. He wou'd take the by an Menem tame. The history of ottr financial embarrass- present occasion of expressing his gratitude to the Right lion. Inertia Was perfectly cibaiotts. Those enthareassments had arisen Baronet for his proposition .of taxing the owners of large Ira thE gxeedsii4 love of economy whith had prevailed in that estates in Ireland who did not reside in that country. It. House since the passitig of ilia Bjorn/ Bill. He would, how- would act as an absentee tax; and it always appeared to him ever, take that opportunity of expreislog his approval of one re- that it was desirable to impose a tax of that description. ductiun at least in our taxation, which liskl been a con- Whatever, therefore, the [tight Hon. Baronet received from scant subject of taunt to Honourable Gentlemen oppo, Ireland from that source would not be a loss, but a gain, to site—he meant the reduction in the Post-office revenue, that country. He i thought the Bight Pion. Gentleman h a d He had no hesitation its saying that if he looked back to the Re- acted vrisely in roe xtendingthe property tax to Ireland; and he form Bill for the one great benefit which it had done to the much doubted whether, by its imposit a ,n, he would have obi aitted common people of the cOuntry—to the great masses which were a much greater revenue than would have carried the expenses unrepresented in that House—it appeared to him that the Post- of its caution. He (lid not_think l lie confessed, there was office Reform was the one measure which had &Me more good anything obje ctionable in the Right Hon. Baronet's attempting largest possible revenue from and he to the people than all the others put together'. Nut to syrak to obtain the o legitimate spirits, of the direct comforts and advantages which wore covrterred lry thought there could d be .7 doubtssrire object of taxation. that measure, be valued it Itz, , cause it treated the people as But he certainly had sonic 'would whither, by the increase of moral beings, having intellects ,net having hearts, baying lavas the duty, the ( t - ,t v e el l n ie did not wish receive. toma r increase of revenue. to communicate, and affections to interchange, and enabled the At the same time, was another part complaint. of re th a e nY finaneial planur upon of pour man to gratify his feelings to the greatest keite'nt —( Hear, that subject.. Right Hon. Baronet to which he wished to advert—he hear.) That taunt came with a very bad grace from those who the ;proposal of imposing a tax importation ' upon the of had quitted the party that originated the Act, and who did not meant the he doubted coa l. He confessedthat the policy of such a mea t 'l, i. "" 1 -.beCariae (boy knew that the.great body of the i p ropose 1 s elk,. . ' fav our of it that sure, and he feared that the diminution of the importation county 1 the people of , this cou Ma.' esy strongly /11 als e Orse —(1Ie Clear, hear.) would prevent the Right Hon. Baronet from deriving so large re t could safely take stk.. a o .. it tax from that source as he anticipated. In conclusion, he had 1 T": yetd ,- , , ore t 1 indeed'fallen off • but could be con.. a of rine reentre en , o ~ t o observe, that he aproved en the whole of the scheme the ,4 AIWS 'X Was inevitable, They were tended that an ...eel to .has inevitable. Right Hon. Gentleman; and however much he regretted to evenue vras to told that the old systenl il rn te r: lg th6 Aie i. Baronet came find himself compiled to differ from those with whom he UM tally inadequate. The Right r tB r' i'a tiet l oriels that the ally agreed,he would feel it his duty to vote against the amend• down and told them it was perfectly I. 41 _their level. ment to the resolution. , taxes on articles of consurnS!an had reacuee t. ~ . l e vel, Mr. R. PA Lill ER thought the speech of the Hon. Gentle- Because taxes oh particular articles :'eaCl reacheilittltatta4vauoge man who had just sat down must be mast satisfactory to the because they could not resort to those article; - ;.." sea i re ed no Government, stating as he did that he felt bound as a man o to the revenue, therefore it was contended there tee. e that honour to support theiameasure.—(Hear, hear.) Wi th res p ect artioles to be taxed. That argument had been met see . -sr to the income tax no one could be more sensible of its evils side of the House by the simple statement that since the last's e, thanhimself ; but he felt that in the peat exigency which had country there had been taken off 2,5 millions of taxes. If gentlemen I .., - en, that proposal wasthe best adopted to relieve the _ 4 millions of an, ... difficulties. one that there wanted direct taxation, let them resume the 3 or Those from' tt., •„ fley It.was not denied by any u ~ _ d, assessed taxes which had been taken off since the war, o f seven millions and a half t-, be s pplie itself • taxes which Would not interfere with trade and would was it dent.. , the country would endeavour to relies'. nit _ wereinsuioria l 'nus results of and he tiontga. .tent. He thought that the return a certain revenue without any of the odt removed by an income tax. Brit the 'Right Hon. Gentleman . also told from that einhareare. • ' - -- ee- ,• be to a great exten t whole .peritat. , them that there was no remedy to be fouud by lowering the evils of the tax mliinli•. ' , lading for the taxes S.-that the produce would not be suff icientl y g re a t for the ado p tin g a s y stem. of goctip. that it wo air . -n observed, %necessary urgency, But there who a third eotirse*open, to Ho would concur in what haheelbet. .. . c~ ::111 PUBLIC ACCOUNTS. Mr. WILLIAMS asked why the revenue accounts of the Duchy of Lancaster for the past year, which had been laid on the table of the House, had not yet been printed; and why the revenue accounts of the Duchy of Cornwall had not yet been laid on the table? Sir G. CLERK said, the Duchy of Lancaster accounts had been referred to the Printing Committee, who had not yet reported on them, and the delay in the presenta tion of the Duchy of Cornwall accounts had been occasioned by the alterations rendered necessary in them, in consequence of the birth of his Royal Highness the Prince of Wales. He hoped, however, to be able to lay those accounts on the table the first day after the Easter recess. Mr. WILLIAMS said that there had been no account printed of balances and arrears in the hands of Govern ment officers since the year 1830. He wished to know if the Right Hon. Gentleman proposed presenting any such return for the present year? Sir G. CLERK said, that the return of the names of officers having arrears and balances in their hands on any particular day would consist principally of the names of the deputy-postmaster& These accounts had not been printed, because they had been considered as useless. If the Hon. Member chose to move for them for the present year, ho would not object. Mr. WILLIAMS thought that as'those accounts had not been printed for the last ten years, it was desirable that the account for the last year should be printed. COPYRIGHT BILL. The Copyright Bill was then pro forma, and ordered to be re-committed on the 16th April. EXCHEQUER BILLS BILL. M:r. C. BULLER wished to ask the Right Ho, pourable Baronet what course he intended to pursue with regard to the Exchequer Bills Bill ? He believed there was no difficulty about the Bill ; the discussion would be very short; and it was not fair to the holders of Exchequer bills to delay, from day to day, the appointment of a Committee to inquire into their claims. Sir R. PEEL said that he understood that the late Solicitor-General had intended to introduce some amendments into the Bill regarding certain legal questions that might be likely to arise. No unnecessary delay had occurred in passing . the mea sure ; the House had sat night after night until nearly two o'clock in the morning—(llear, hear) — and there had been no opportunity of discussing those amendments to which the late Solicitor-General attached great importance. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, his Hon. and Learned Friend the Member for Worcester wished to in troduce certain amendments. The discussion would be but short, and he thought the best way would be to fix an early hour on some particular day for the discussion. He wished to ask another question with respect to the Act that had so often been referred to, the Act of 1806. As the Right Hon. Baronet had relied 'on that Act for the chief machinery for raising the income tax, and as that Act had been repealed, it would. be very desirable that the House should be enabled to see what the general machinery of that Act was. He therefore wished to ask the Right lloti. Baronet if he had any objection to print ing that Act in a separate form, for the use of Members of that House ? Sir R. PEEL said ho should not have the slightest objection to move that the Act referred to should be printed. EXCHEQUER BILLS. Sir R. INGLIS. asked when the Exchequer Bills Bill would be proceeded with ? Sir ROBERT PEEL said, with respect to the Ex chequer bill inquiry, it was a peculiar case. With respect to the Exchequer bills' Bill, he cotild not do better than propose that the Bill fshOuiddOtlie oil at five o'clock on Monday fortnight, ill the hope that he . should then be able to proceed with other questions. INCOME TAX. Mr. BLEWITT then rose, and said he had at last got an opportunity of . asking the attention of the House ; he still thought, as lte• did on Monday last, that the proposed income tax was being pressed on with indecent haste, - and that the Right Hon. Baronet was only relying on his majority in that House to carry a tax upon which the people had no opportunity of expressing their opinion. He really thought the Right Hon. Baronet was proceeding against the principles and constitution of the House. He un derstood that the object of a Committee of Ways and Means was to raise money for the purpose of supply ; but the object of the income tax was to raise money for taxes which the Right Hon. Baronet was going to take off. Being of the opinion that the measure was pressed for ward with indecent haste, he would move that the Order of the Day on Public Works be read.—(Oh, oh.) The SPEAKER said the Orders of the Day should be taken in regular succession. The question was, that he should leave the Chair, and it would not be in accord ance with usage to take another Order of the Day into consideration. Mr. BLEWITT, then, would beg to move that the tariff be considered before they proceeded with the in come tax.—Laughter., The 'SPEAKER 's - aid that would not be a regular course. Mr. BLEWITr---May he beg to know why it was not usual?—(Continued laughter.) The SPEAKER, explained, The question that the S.litalter do leave the Ohitir wns then put, and agreed to amid eonsideraße laughter: The House then went into a eenthaittee of Ways and Means, Mr. Geetzte. in titteoiihir. INCOME TAY. The resolutions the Committee haying been mixt,' Lord R. G I 3,OYENOIt said he fzlt how Mine:lilted he was to eur:f„ge the attention Of the House on the all hriportant, question which now engageli. its' ttention. lie would not have ventured to iatrune on the Masa at all, did he ;tot feel that he eutortained 'opinions Nu the sub ject. different from tiossa o'f all the spenkers who preceded Atm, and it was on that account, teat he solicited the in ( diligence 4 the -House while he endeavoured briefly ito state the course he meant to pursue. The case of the Right Bon. Baronet was, he believed, that in consequence of the deficiency in the revenue, ,as compared with the expenditure, and the absolute necessity that tkisteil of devising some means to raise the revenue to the amount required for exigencies of the State ; that on account of the disturbed condition of our Indian posses sions, . and also o our relations - with China ; and besides, by. reason of the alteration .ali c h her Majesty's Government contemplated vnakiug in the commercial tariff; and, moreover, in conse quence of its not appearing practicable to raise a ny considerable amount of revenue from lowering the taxes on articles of consumption ; that for all thisSe reasons, recourse Must be had to iiirett taxa tion, and of all other mules of -taxation nT,a l an income tax, which it was proposed t 9 in i p a se at fi lo slic .c";rully as it was iatelidvA to lay seemed so likely to- operate, tax, rate.. of 7d. in the pound. rte *as tweet s thit'it stamps and traits in Ireland ; ino n a n addition additional also the export of coal the aneennt of 4s.' per ton. With respect to the incone tas: tt had been urged by Hon. Gentlemen on the,t the Opposition) side of the tc duty this House, that it his an unjust tax, an odious and inquisitorial one, and intolerable in whatever shape it might be imposed. 'lt had been also said that the Right honourable Baronet had greatly exaggerated the necessities of the case. In proof of this, it was al leged that there was a long :list of taxes producin g many millions annually, which might be modified so'as Alto give the required amount to make up- the deficit. though he (Lord Grosvenor) was aware that the Right Hon. Beronet was at issue on most of those with Gentlemen on that side of the House, yet there was tine point on. which the Right- hen.' Gentlertihrt - doneurned with his opponent, and that was, that. nothing but the. greateat • necessity could call for the impoitiou of • Coat a person possessed of real income should be ' s omewhat greater amount tha n those whose racemeswieede ttee , , f ___ tarto o:e ., . tuating. He supposed that such an amendmentto_l4lol.37_..*,. plan would not be consiste nt with the views of the e Tglat__A t i,T; Baronet, but he must say that such an amenelmente7et,t`..7:l„ away eith a considerable portion of the unpopularitY tna.rl"4' I.' attach to every such measure. The Right Hoe. lialarTn'enti4l calculated, from the class in Schedule D., am ..... q , 1,200,000/. ; if it were consistent with the Yr , _e - 1 .4. the Right Honourable Baronet to tax this . tl4" ‘ , .: 1. wto per cent. instead of th ree, it would noi. deduction .of one-third Irons the estimate, or about - fiT u rt v sn He thought it not impossible to make up that differ i e t' s n oe. some other source. He might point out some artieles tes ess , .,.. , tariff, the change in which ne could not see. the ne e n li s i_ ee t r e being followed up. lie could not see that so much &dee t ... tie d,, ~ would attend the change in the timber duties as was . enll si S ou ,„, The reduction on timber was calculated at 600, 00 i eto ee tehisee of an amendment had been put on the loaner to ' - _,Z e a er.re class from the tax altogether, but this would not be e. inotou.ii „, —( [Tear, hear. ) There was no reason whY lar g_ e e t eis ere t made through the medium of trade should be exesel ) ,, Apo than real property ; but a difference might fairly b e e e ru es t r t , aoa,, occasion had arisen when great exertion was ' l ,, easu c e ieed,s Gentlemen opposite had not shown that they eosn'o'c 0f wale.; the necessary resources without resorting to tier) which had been repudiated by that Houtshee. in , ein e be thou-14 1 ' no alternative but to adopt the present rr i ne ipie, e. eH e ereees. the country would submit to such a plan for a time.—(Hear. , t e. , A s , He trusted that, in three years, they she , ssl. the saXe! situation that could justify them in t aking u that it thee He could only say that his belief and opinion set to fu n . eue tae was an unpopular one, thee unpopularite "ge and whor the shoulders of those who caused the,defici eu l' . . t prisOet. nitre could slees having lett it, were not now prepared to assist t o : a e pees opponents, and not on the blioultieri of, time Who souring to remove ir.--(Cheers..) to 'the • • listened ' eft Mr. TENNISON D'E Y N CtJURT had + to o s tel opinions of the Hon. Gentleman who had jus.t i '•l'4 e ity !sl f great pleasure. lie quite agreed with him, that ' ne eple• . necessey for the imposition of the tat existed, 1. 136 L o a 4 0 4 this coun:ry would to a man strive to beer a fairl u alese f e t, t e in (peke to ;seep up public credit, and meet tb ° • ° 7stete.t . o ft country. But he did not believe that th e ga lie. nth f or th e t ax exited. He thought it flip ito 'lline rg oo an income tax aiene, because it was e ' 4 l die ” 1 : 100 • from a property tax, be c ause it pressed tint /t i g ht. 1 , productive interests of the country . The , hut SOP Baronet had said there was no reseuree . t ;•Goveny a tax ; but he thought that if the measures of the t , , pe elssitt went were carried they would go tee to r emove t to 'vitas!,' h e , which existed—( Hear, hear )—and while they were ~, would object to any other taxes. They were e i .,'',4,l' recourse to that which should be reserved fur a tle 4 .s t e te e .ounn• ea testi and wind' would give an impression to foreign' to, g t , 40 they were exhausted. That appeared to him one u f- b,51 .. „ 0 4 objections to the tax. He was surprised at the If• e a thero lion. Member for the count. Limerick. It apPe ar ,ilin , i , the tax did not press upon his country he would e b ear. r , assist in fixing it on the people of England.--(,r. Of 0 , English Members on his (Mr. T. D'Eyneoures/•: bee li.e is ° House hed never taken that course with respect to otr te ~..t Member's country—( Hear, hear)—and the Hon. 0 1 , . 17, might rest assured that no example he could seerthe,..elarete li nature would induce them to follow it. A tie 4 4 ne t speech of the Hon. Member for Berkshire, wile h a d 44 down, he (Mr. T. J'Eyncourt) was not surprised a t .1 0 0.0e* adopted by the Right Hon. Gentleman in imposing f'lleiets's his followers.—(Opposition cheers.) Ex UllO diSCCN Pei . 1 ' r (Loud cheers.) He was satisfied that if Hortottra; e 1, tlemen opposite would open their mouths and glve,st e , st . „_ e ee their real opinions, that the greater part of War iieL be found to express opinions of a nat. i slibet,'" l to those which had been expressed by the lien. Berkshire.--(Cheers.) He (Mr. I'. D'EYD et L e e t/ se; the high and honourable feelings entertained by, e 'ri o ls' •',. Gentlemen opposite, anti he could not ' briag hinseu e etein. that they would lend themselves to class legislation ;01, ture—(Cheers)—that they would press unduly nerfiretis i I. dustry of this country to sustain the landed and the • . pt than interests.—( Hear, hear.) It was his (Mr. • f r' . ~, court's) intention at the proper time to move a and I, reduction in the tax to be paid by the trades aye '' e es, di:if sions of the country.—(Cheers.) If a man laid ont....taer in trade, the more hazardous the speculation the gr' t 7, o 0 the gains. The more hazardous the speculatiou, t _ kr were the gains expected, because this capital was 'tee 9''` him in the shape of income; but the whole cotineja break down before it was completed, and teen it wa l e(b 0 tore of capital, and not the nature of • roes n' e 't -r hear.) It the interest on capital was 20if e ets the tax would amount to one-sixth, and if to -.T . . 4 1 " v o it would be one-third ; and he should there: oT :d af t) that instead of 7d. in the cases of trades and profession7'o.loA be 2d. in the pound, which was somewhere about eel of what was proposed. The Right Hon. Gentlem an' that no resources were left to the country but this on p e: the Right Hon. Gentleman had admitted that the l i .t r i f : s io 4 the late Government, had they been adopted, woulo eise r li dered the income tax unnecessary. Sir R. PEEL dissented. • for,the Mr. T. D'EYNCOURT, then, would say it 0 ' Hon. Gentleman.—(Laughter.) Hou. Gentletne n iu . did not perhaps hear that admission; but it wa s qu't 'ilt, from the statement of the Right Hon. Baronet, leeier4 1 course had been adopted, there would have then . 0 0 0- 1 small deficiency. He thought thin could be made oat l l l' The Right Hon. Baronet expected one million Wl' ~.--,4 4 corn; now under the Bs. duty he might have reas . , petted two millions, and this would have prevented tb e . s , 0; to a property tax. They must recollect that twig: l 'l ) 4 ) i, lions of taxes had been repealed since the war ; 2 , 1 %44 T. D'Eyncourt) thought that, out of that twentYe s ' A tscitd, taxes, there surely . .was one to make up the gush -- the Self one million, without resorting to that impost ulT ° a ° , eet 0 •0 0 facturing and trading interest of the country. '''7 l ,osl l ,io the Right Renewable Baronet that he had ree el s esT t ist from his (Mr. Tennyson D'Eyncourt's) constituentsvol too stated that in consequence of their knownpolitical fee Cc would be placed in a very awkward position with reer au e: o o collectors of the income tax. He was quite certain ose siderations could not be imputed to the Right Hot. it t. but that the tax would bring the taxpayer under, cp::, aoj, of the Government to a considerable extent, he had tr ye to; e t He must say that the Right Hon. Baronet had posr i ,„o,,-, 0 ficient time for consideration of this income tab' tee teeei .s) of . t a lo b a i t e H i o i u . s e e d s t h d o n u o id t permit the :I n it. p ro e r op m l eeoe meetings n th gs is re w t : Pf:s aw en . ; and state their views of the subjeet; and he thent4 P. , I'd respecting the proposal. the Right Hon. ibl°" - etoueet : said truly, that according to the forms of Bole t tie rif would have ample opportunity for consideration nnel p ese et too lions were passed. That was perfectly true, but he ' than he (Mr. T. D'Eyncourt) did, that after tu" : s ties division upon that question, the Hon. G en tleine l l o aje ~ their votes affirmative of that resolution, walk' i ' s „,,, f inconvenient to ive a vote afterwards against tO be ';;, y had before recorded; but they would, on the central' 'Sr s d 4 to justify that vote, whatever was said against ititeitiffr thought this was a reason why time should Ye t bee consider those resolutions, especially considering ',,,,,,. 40 of the Right Hon. Baronet, for which he did not Or t i before he made his statement, and he thought Well/ to the country not to give a little more time than tittigi before the first vote was given on the subject. 1 ,_,.. 1a7 ,04r, this, he didhope the Right Hon. Baronet would 0 1 0 " It, give a little further time, and he hoped that here"' ti eV not be considered inconsistent if Hon. Gentle st 00, changed their votes. He hoped the flight IlldisetV would consider this, and he hoped he would int., rolreili relaxation with regard to mercantile and professie 0 ea'ets that he would consider the effect it would bate° (1141;M! nations—the inquisitorial nature of that tax. no ~,' D'Eyncourt) could assure him he should give " e i iiir orpositii n. ring *ll 1/$9l Sir J. It. REID said, that so far from sgre- arteerost Hon. Gentlen.an who had just sat down , a s to f it i ll iti, 11° ,„ being given to consider this subject, he trusted the ~,lIIP . V I Baronet would take the sense of the House that RiZ ei s e r (Sir J. R. Reid) did not hesitate to declare that Uoglsief general opinion of the mercantile interest of the e rla i Si t ll' the business of the country was impeded by e u i e sir,„. o . i. tli' lieuse.—( Hear, hear.) With that feeling h„,-` O , I t;" 1 , Reid) could not follow the example set by the no d i ,,,,, d r i man, in going into discussion upon that great ne t el°,'„tf,, , question, but he must he permited to say, th a be w e e'•,'' i he disliked paying such a tax, still at the same tinte d/ r s e ! hesitate to declaie, that under the existieg circl; et s liit , which the country was placed, and considering ti d i „10) ho should, though reluctantly, pay his quota.--( l • •Q u ed lict on the Oppositioe benches.) He felt himself IT ° t bo te r what he considered a fair and just compliment t o t , tbi b , • Member for Limerick, who had so fairly s poken ° t on) ject, and he (Sir J. R. Reid) would have been l' e pten'' tified to have seen his example followed by o tb' l e r.) be tlemen on the same side of the House.—(Hear, b 00114.1111 lie (Sir J. R. Reid) was a party man to a certain % eel s re not deny, but at the same -time he was indePr e e cn e ° l l o Right Hon. Baronet. He was connected with 01 ,,, e ' orty• ti o interest, and although part of the Right Hen. ' 1 ; o S a o ( • r was objected to, still he did not hesitate to (le e •ptott k ie,, connected with that interest, that it was the 01 1 ' tinVe majority of the commercial interest that the o°loo 4 1,,, Baronet had taken was one which would carry hi m , use ;ei r e through all the difficulties with which. 11 .. atist e i r l rounded. He had been set down as a i a t bilesslo but he did and b n e o l t ief, h w e a si s t , at i e hat to declare tW o e. si el s es i the Right po t; ' oo o.e ought not to flinch, and he looped be would i t Ili e t , iseespre to ( trusted that, in the course of three years Ot..— not . te le se found hardly necessary to continue the fait w" I- 3t ,de_ h ts/fi then discussing.—( Hear, loan ) He would- " ( e s sitskrAtt r t ;s house longer, for be was a man of busines t— e a 1 04 6:#4. : therefore he would come to the point.— (Rene be 1 1 1.10 . 4 e He would vdte with the Right lion. Baronet, .) . Os t ie ;bred what they may.Lotid ironical ebeq:bt. 'Ol4l rimed him to put the question — to the test tha t l ' j ess ilf trV tiered that they had lost a great deal of time unste 00 A O question had been discussed over and over again' er e Il, cf figi the country was languishing in consequence, Ord a n e 'a f ' s that they would finish the question that night' • t siesl '/ S stake his existence that all counected with the . tl4 r d; . Mr. WART) A ;s ß th D e said the i t . country would have ne reason to complain. hot J. 016 ' c h a s ent ;l at l iv n e . nt :e . ssed the House had made, two most imp of t he 0 0 0,. li a large b h e i d s Y tos eitb Ope vial interest of the country he shoiii' t Pay te;: b „, theinoo es si„: reluctance—(lA2lghter)---and, secont. s Ys ' - 4. this" ii tliter! first • eng at G reasonable probableey of the tax terrninae Hon I se tioned.—(Loud cries ief " No, no.") flu:, it AO W . ,tO oG?entlenaan whoa, to I , had said three or four yeare—that he hoped s , ,jott . more than three or four years. r e' (1)- i iit° Sir J. R. REID rose, amidst Joud cries 0 `.. ..,tiel ~ explain, but his gave way. . W I - 4 or , :-...' el Mr. WARD—It certainly struck upon my ...., foer years. a a a re PfP f ite Sir .1. R. REID—The Hon. Member's e r . _ of ferent from other people's.—( Laughter, anel i f e li e b 0 , 446 Mr. WARD said perhaps he had not ea_ - e w c . pi ete., r . ) quently este ibed to Hon. Gentlemen o n th .I'r it t e,',. !a ( Laughter.) Under any circumstances tn:anoess_yre Baronet would have the support of Gentlest, g re at Ip'etnl o ef.l this was the rationale of this taxation. benAtrhe 8 ... .?.,P;00,1 Gentlemen opposite would have gladly ta. 0( 00 0 :p or ' i that tne 04 k 4 as it was, if they could have fin-teem % _ eau 1 _ the slidhig scale was to be obtained at there t jee: .tat esi !l i d tax. He had had the pleasure of hearine.x ltt on i t ha aey 5, who were vehemently opposed to himss mode ' of o rie u p , Cully believed that there was a better the in cre 00 , same result as that sought by ths — Bo ar o , e ciency in the revenue. There had ben .o a . ?..,bee „A:: against this proposal, in which he was boundtta _74ooteor7eiti at all concur. The first. was, that the incmneso. I ;I I but he (Mr. Ward) did not consider it ethe V ah o, ,: , o i It was a tax arising out of necessity, wh ees , white? arose from war or net. Another argumen tit' _putsieedli, lit' 4.t r countries must think ed . this tax, and thatworrt., ,11. o f 1 national character in the estimation of the i'L tuit te .. ..s , fr Consider that argument worthy of the _i re ii entb ,) Hoose.—( Hear, hcar.) Foreign countries.mwe ..a . t r i a direct system of taxation, and many of the n 1 .. ,:;;;I„ lit r it portion Of their revenues by direct taxatioem o r a T t , u sT , d i d knew but little of our indirect syst w They , r to they did not approve of what they did kne .._ , 1 - 4 i p etrd.49 that system was unjust, and they had long lensTi ese Leeb * :ej tern of dire. t taxation. As the Hon menitefifto,,,,,, stated, if they taxed property, they taxed th . Vt_ir e ei p ie j ppt , labour was employed ; and they were tin,..' I He ,101 ' - 'i ; ' 0 7 4 1 1/4 , the working easses.—(Hear, hear. )tn." h0:;• 1 1, that this system was a great encourag e into ,. . ,It, dulent pretences and irregular management t_epotteeee, taxed a man's expenses, they did not tax his _ifZegeety i country they did more, they did not tax his °1 .. ,,i . Jeli they not only taxed his trojoyronts,' htttit_lley ‘0,..'