The Sun. — London, England, 1849-05-08 00:00:00

obligation by the sanction of religion; and, secondly, to exclude certain persons who declined acceding to the terms of the o a th or affirmation. Was it to be said that any human being, by refusing to take an oath when about performing a duty, was to be divested of the obli gation under which he undertook to perform that solemn titY ? Would anybody say that an oath was not as lading and as strong in the case of a Jew as anybody else ? The Jew said he believed in an oath, and pro. lewd his readiness to give to his obligation the sanction of religion. They eat, drank, and dealt with the Jew, and he wanted to know why it was that they had not the Jew among them?—(Hear, hear.) In all probability ,taey would find th,t Ilonourab!e Member for Ox ford to-morrow citing the auther,ty of the Jew as a lawgiver on the marriage question. Ile thould like to k now h ow that inconsistency could be got 114 Of. He asked the common sense of the House and of the country—be was fond of appealing to the com mon sense of both—what there was in the man, or in the men, who believed in the Decalogue, to prevent hem or theta from becoming a Member of the British Legislature ? Jews were not aliens. There were many Eoglishme n professing the religion of the Jew. They were in that character honest men. They professed that morality which Englishmen approved of and learned, and he could not understand on what prin• eiple or what reason it was contended they should not le admitted to Parliament. He denied that the enact ment of the measure would in the slightest degree un hristianise !he House of Commons, and believing that the Noble Lord at the head of the Government had fol. low‘d a wise course in bringing forward the Bill, he should give it his hearty and cordial support. After a few words in explanation frtnn Mr. GOUL BURN the House divided, when there appear, d For the second reading Against it .... Majority. —93 The Bill was then read a eecond time, and ordered to be c.)mniittee. Mr. GOULBURN inquired what course it was in tended adopting to•morrow with regard to the public basinesi ? Would the adjourned debate on the mar riage question, or notices of motion, have the prece dence ? . " Mr. - S. WORTLEY hoped that Horourable Gentle men having notics s of motion would alto' v the adjourned debate to take precedence. lie appealed particularly to the lion. Members for Newcastle and Lingford. Mr. IIEADLAM observed that his not - ice of motion fur IPnvo to introduce a Biil rendering lawful the forma tion of joint-stock banks, based upon the principle of a limited liability of shareholders, stood first on the list. If he were allowed to bring in the Bill without opposi tion, he was quite willing that the debate should be taken on the second.reading. _ _ _ _ _ • Major BLACKALL said if it were the wish of the Rouse, he should not interpose his motion, provided that other Hon. Members having notices on the paper would also give way, to allow the adjourned debate on the marriage question to be resumed. Mr. MACGREGOR couldnot consent to postpone his motion respecting the incorporation of Kensington, ChOsea, Fulham, and Hammersmith, into a Parlia tee itary borough. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, ho intended opposing the introduction of tae Hon. Member for Newcastle's Biil, and unless there was a decided ex pression of opinion by the House adverse to that course, be should p'•rsevere in his intention. Mr. S. W ORTLEY thought the opposition to the Bill might be reserved till the second reading, in order to allow the debate on the Marriage Bill to be proceeded with. Mr. G. THOMPSON, in reply to Sir R. Pod, said he Lad already expressed hii intention not to stand in the VI ay of the adjourned debate on the Marriage Bill. LAND IMPROVEMENT AND DRAINAGE (IRE- LAND) BILL. The report upon this Bill was brought up S and re ceived, as oho was the report of the Committee of Supply. The Incumbered Estates (Ireland) Bill, and the Estates Leasing (Ireland) Bill were read a second time, and ordered to he committed. Mr. dOUEBURN wished that the Hon. Member for Glasgow would say positively whether he would or Would not give way to-morrow. Mr. MACGREGOR said he should positively not give way.—(Greet laughter.) ACCOUNTS OF TURNPIKE TRUSTS (SCOT LAND) BILL. Mr. C. LEWIS moved tile second reading of this Bill. Mr. FORBES MACKENZIE declared his intention of dividing the House against it. The galleries were cleared for a division, but none toke place, and the Bill was read a second time. __ LUNATICS (SCOTLAND) BILL. The LORD ADVOCATE moved the second reading of this Bill. Mr. F. MACKENZIE moved, as an amendment, that the louse should adjourn. A division took place, when the numbers were— For the adjournment ... 24 Fur the second reading ... 69 Majority _ ... .. —45 PUBLIC - fIgALTII (SCOTLAND) BILL. On our return to the gallery we found Xr. C. BRUCE opposing the second reading of this Bill. He wished it to be postponed to a more fitting opportunity. The LORD ADVOCATE did not think that a Bill precisely on the plan of the law of England would have been opposed at all. He did not object to a postpone ment, if such were desirable, but he should leave it to the Rouse to decide whether any reason had been shown for postponement. After a short conversation, 'Sir GEORGE GREY said, that if any Honourable Member objected to the principle of the Bill, ample time - would be given before the Bill was pressed on through the House. Mr. OSWALD wished that time should be given for the public opinion of Scotland to be known. Mr. AGLIONBY supported the second reading. Ob jections to the Bill might be taken in Committee. Mr. CHARTER'S hoped that if the second reading was taken now, the Committee would not be hurried tor viard.• Them mere nine Scotch Bills on the table, and the people of. Scotland were quite alarmed at the legis lative fecutdity of the Lord Advocate.—(A laugh.) The LORD ADVOCATE reminded the House that he was under a pledge from last session to force on the Bill as fast as possible. It contained no new principle Niliatever, and he hoped the House would consent to pass the measure through its present stage. After a few words from Colonel 6IBTHORP, Mr. A. HASTIE supported the motion, approving as he did the of the provisions of the Bill. Mr. DUNCAN expressed himself favourable to the Bill. Mr. P. MACKENZIE moved the adjournment of the debate. TliWHouse divided, whon there appeared— ' For the adjournment ... 19 Against it ... 63 Majority against the adjournment —44 The second reading of the Bill, niter a short conver sation, was postponed to this day. The other orders were then disposed of, and the Rouse adjourned at One o'clock. HOUSE OF LORDS, May 7. The LO;CD—eHAITICiLLOR took his tient upon the Woolsack at Five o'clock. NAVIGATION-LAWS. Petitions against the repeal of the navigation-laws were presented by the Duke of Richmond, the Marquis of Londonderry, the Earl of Harrowby, Lord Wham cliffe, and Lord Stanley, from certain bankers, shipowners, and artizans of London, signed by 31,771 persons, and from various other places. Petitions in favour of the repeal of the navigation laws were presented by the Marquis of LANSDOWNE from Manchester and Dundee. EXCHEQUER-BILLS BILL. On the motion of Earl GR&NVILLE, this Bill was read a socond time. SICILY. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE laid on the table certain papers relating to Sicily. NAVIGATION-LAWS. The 'Marquis of LANSDOWNE then moved the second reading of the Bill for the repeal of the naviga tion-laws. He felt himself relievedfrt length, trom aem the necessity of de taining their Lordships a t au yea know ledge that their Lo r d s h ips were gr already familiar with almost all the facts and arguments of the case. He, how ever, must detail some of the reasons which induced him to make his motion, because he knew that in many ca ses the opposition to this w fo e u s u founded upon n a p s e i n e eae rbelief,sincere, b belief, i h e f e , B b il u l t w b a e s believed an erroneous, that this measure would affect the naval supremacy of this country. It would behit o b r u d s s o ine f ss t t h o st en bee d l e i a r ur li, to disabuse the minds of No ble admitted that it was portion of our liberty neces to sary p r t e h s e r v s e ac r i thee some , so was it necessary to sacrifice some portion of the wealth and resources of be the ted h country for should the purposes of defence. But tr us ted laws were not shove their Lordships that such sacrifices as were desired by the continuance of the navigatio n' into the histor y re quired, lie could not go step law Was those Jaws. The first attempt at a na v igation by ste the of in the time of Richard 11., butth e destructive to its enactment it was found to be so commerce that the very Parliament whic h founded in was compelled to repeal it. These laws were . com merce, it the natural feeling of grasping at every thing in . 6- which invariably brought with it its own punish ment. li__ ment. The prosperity of every country must be invari ably ably founded upon the prosperity of other commercia l eountrie3—(Cheers)—and, consequently, all those at tsunpts had tailed. Another attempt had been made to enact a navigation-law by Henry VIII., and having protected the shipowner, he protected the people against the shipowner, by e n , c ti ng that only a certain of thertain number of ships should b e perm i tte d to ports of the kingdom. This scheme, as might have been Fupposed fal d It wns not until the time of Cromwell that th e ' pre sent e e • navigation-laws were enacted. Ths object of not purely of a co,„,oreiati "vi g ati " u 'law was nature, his object was to punish the Dutch forreohnesidseurpporth which they had given to Charles 11. t io n s g h t ev e e i t )e, e situation of this country there might p-,rh the experiment h i ow far by a fair grounds for trying p he resent sacrifice of wealth a stimulu s m i ght be given to t development of our marine strength. Our circumstances, with regard to Holland, were at that time the very reverse of what they were now. But though he admitted that the experiment might have been at the time fairly tried, he by no means admitted that that experiment had been suceer,3ful. Fate• ti years after those laws had Jima enact ml he fo!:nd it rtc!):ded in tho.t, most ~musing ht.a.k, the " Diqry of M . St.erktazy l'ep3s," thut it n-a,! ina pt:4lWe to see toy hut women navigating boats, us the men had all been pressed, and that as a remedy for this mewlthings, himmediato ouspenlien of the RATipti(MiliPle. TIIE SUN, He would pass over the history of those laws durirg the reigr:s of the Stuarts, merely stati g that their etlcct, after a few years' trial, being found most disadvanta geous, considerable modifications were made, and on the accession of William 111. the trade and commerce of the country were in a very flourishing condition. lie : would next go on to the period when at theend of the American war Mr. Pitt came into office—a name to which he never alluded but with the greatest respect, and for which many in that House professed an almost super stitious reverence. Mr. Pitt immediately on coming into office, persualed of the importance in the then state of things of introducing some relaxation of the naviga tion-laws, introduced a measure for that purpose. That was at a moment when beyond any other in the history of England, the importance of the navy to the security of the country had been proved, and at the close of a war in which the tarnished laurels in the unfortunate war which had taken place, by land, in America, had been in a great degree redeemed .by the glory of those successes which from the victory of Rodney, in the West Indies, to the relief of Gibralt:ir by Howe, in the Mediter ranean, had established the naval supremacy of this country. and rescued her honour, enabling her to obtain n satisfactory peace. Was that a moment when any wise and prudent Minister would think of laying his hands on a sacred ark, as some considered the naviga _ tion-laws,in which the security of the navy, and can sequently of the cLaatry, consisted ? Nevertheless, Pitt at once saw the necessity of opening the colonial trade, and introduced a measure for that purpose, but which his retirement from office prevented him from carrying, although this principle had from time to time been acted on by acts of authority on the part of succes sive Ministries.—(Hear, bear.) He next came to a time within his own recollection. In 1807 he brought into the other House a measure for establishing free inter course between the West Indian and American colonies and the mother country. That measure was oppos( dby Sir W. Grant, on the ground that it would afftct the navy and mercantile marine of this country. He further stated, that such would be the inducement afforded to American vessels for going to the West Indian islands, and engaging in the trade of them, that it was doubt ful whether any sugar would be imported to this country. Now, remembering those allegations, and the powerful eloquence with which they were enforced, he had the curiosity to ascertain what the effect of that measure had been which was denounced as having so destructive a tendency. He bad Mimi the year in which the measure passed doyen to the conclusion of the war, and he found, that while in the year 1807, the year in which that Bill was passed, the general tonnage of Bri tish ships was two millions and ninety-six thousand tons, at the conclusion of the war that tonnage had increased to 2.247,000 tons. The Duke of RICHMOND—That included ships of war as well as merchant ships. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE—He would then turn to the system with which they had now to deal, and look at the altered shape which the navigation-laws have taken, if shape it could be called, which shape had none distinguishable. And on that part of the subject he had to state, that instead of the commerce of this country being girt about, as some would insinuate, with a coat of impenetrable armour, it was clothed with a gar ment of shreds and patches, a system the most com plicated that ever was put on the statute book in the shape of an enactment.—(Hear, hear.) Under what protection was it, he would ask, that they now existed ? The fact was few were aware, and it would perhaps not a little surprise their Lordships when he told them that several most respectable witnesses engaged shipping and commerce, called before a Committee of their Lordships' House to give evidence in favour of the navigation-laws, avowed that, until they were called upon to consider the subject, they had no idea that there was so little protection as there was.—(Hear, hear.) But when the subject was locked into, the absence of all that protection soon became apparent. They had, for instance, various treaties concluded, such as the United States, Mexico, Buenos .Ayres, Venezuela, Russia, Austria, the Netherlands, Prussia, Denmark, Sweden, Holland, Portugal, Naples, Turkey, Oldenburg'', Greece, and every one of these had been entered into independent of the navigation-laws. They were not alt framed on the same principles ; on the contrary, they exhibited the greatest va riety of opinions and ideas. Some of them were terminable, others interminable. They contained diffe rent catalogues of charges, and ditlerent conditions as to the engagement of ves-els for foreign voyager, and taken as a whole, compris d a mass of contusion, d.fficulty, and inconvenience, which made it not at all surprising that those having the deepest interest in them, found it impossible to discover under what law or what protection they were acting. That, therefore, had had the effect of suspending, in many instance?, the operation of the navigation-laws, and the general result of that had been, that year by year the amount and. value of British hipping end trade bad been progres sively inereasieg.--(llear, hear, from the Opposition.) He found tint, while in 1816 the tennage of British shipping was 2,783,000 tons, in 1848 it had risen to up wards of five millions of tone. No doubt it would be said that during that time the commercial prosperity and power of other nations had also increased, and that he viewed as one of the best aspects of the times, for it showed how one nation benefited by coming in contact with others, and how the whole flourished by a system of commercial enterprize. But it was also sell that the British shipowner and merchant was not in a condition to compete with fureign coun tries without a large amount of protection being afforded him. Now, in answer to that, he would call the atten tion of their Lordships to the manne r i n w hi c h t h e Bri- tish shipowner and merchant prospered in the very voyages and countries in which they were most exposed to that competition. 11e had before him the proportion of English and American tonnage, and, as it aas said that one effect of the present measure would be to enable the United States to beat the shipping of this country out of the market, he would estate that proportion to the House. For a great many years past, in the direct voyages between this country and the United States, the English shipowner had gone totally unprotected. Now, what was the issue of the contest between him and the American in that resrect? In 1836 the tonnage of English ships engaged in direct trade with America, and in competition with American ships, was 544,000 tons, and the American tonnage was 1,255,000, while in 1848 the English tonnage had risen to 1,177,000 tons, and the Amer:cm to 2,393,000 tons, thereby showing not only that the English shipping had maintained itself, but that it had increased iu a greater proportion during the time stated then had the American tonnage. And to show the prepsrtion of British and foreign tonnage employed in the trade with the United States, he had to state that while the British tonnage in that trade was 1,177,000 tons, that of all other nations only amounted to 228,000 tons, so that the British tonnage was six or seven times the amount of that of all other nations so employed. Within the last few days he had received a letter from a very extensive shipowner on the subject, who stated, as the result of his experience, that his ships never got so good freights, and were never so successful, as when they sailed between two foreign ports.—(Hear, hear.) And that being what the present measure was intended to render more common and extensive, no one could say that its passing would deteriorate the interest of thb shipowner. He would now turn to the Baltic; but would first allude to the trade carried on by the British ship ping with Hamburgh. The trade carried on by British shipping there exceeded the amount of the trade of Hamburgh itself, and had exceeded that carried on by shipping of all other nations. The tonnage of British shipping which sail from that port was 291,000, while the tonnage of all other nations was only 265,000 tuns. Then if they went to Russia and the Baltic, where it was said competition would be more severe than any% here else, as ships could be built there so cheap that the English shipowner had no chance with such competitors; there timber was cheap, and the greatest facility afforded for ship-building; but, notwithstanding that he found that while there had sailed from the port of St. Petersburgh 228,000 tons of British shipping, the ton nage of Prussian and other foreign vessels trading there only amounted to 221,000 tons, so that in the very heart of that country, where timber was cheap and where com petition the most materially be feared, the British mer chant had maintained so decided an advantage and supe riority as might make him careless about future competition. But it might be said, if the present system works thus well, why introduce a change at the present time ? It must, however, be borne in mind, that although this country might be at present master of shipbuilding, it might not always remain so, and that there were be sides many other considerations to be taken into account, which made it evident that unless a change was made in time, the duties now to be altered would have to be so when it would, perhaps, be more difficult and dangerous to do it. There were besides from 220,000 to 230,000 tons of English shipping engaged in indirect trade with countries, the treaties between which and this country were about to expire, and which, were they not secured, all that amount of shipping would be thrown out of employment.—(Hear.) On the other hand, they would find that great disadvantages were occurring in regard to this country, in its trade with countries who had no such prohibitory duties as this country had. For instance, most of the British vessels trading to French ports bad to leave those parts in ballast, and consequently iecurred greet loss to the owners. The colonies also called on them to pass such a measure as the present. The West Indian colonies were subjected to great difficulty in consequence of the navigation-laws, and Canada told them that the entire trade of the St. Lawrence depended upon their abrogation. In consequence of the opening of canals and other means of transit, the trade of Canada had been diverted through the United States, which had endeavoured to draw its trade away from it, and the only remedy for that would be the opening of the St. Lawrence —and if that was not done, could they imagine that the people of Canada would remain quiet? It they expected the co-operation of Canada, they were bound to give full means of development to all her re sources. He believed that monopoly was not the way to insure prosperity. The experience they had already had in that respect in thee his Theytoryol d seen nd the world them a great and serious lesson. roused to be established in Europe the They had greatest heard Bonaparte mono polies that ever existed. avowing his object vies to obtain ships, colonies, and commerce, in order that he might . establishsuchamo mo nopoly as would swallow up British commerce altoge ther, but they had seen him fail in e aelelutionseotpareogjuscirtes: Ships he could not get, colonies h and commerce ho could not accelerate; and that was be cause the character and enterprise of British commerc e were such, that when once it gained a looting it pro - greased on to tho establishment of trade on a basis which was not easily to be disturbed . or an nihilated. H e wou ld, thereft bre, advice their Bill, an Lord s hi ps to pass t h e secon d reading of the e c asfident that if they did not do so t he position their trade coccr,,eo would occupy would b . . c' ) lldderably werse than at prest nt. in movin g ebe eonti rearli::g of the Bill, then, and uuderetanding that the ,Noble Lord opposite had resolved to run the fiat. of re jecting it, he would say, for himself and his colleagues, that they were equally prepared to run the risk of its being ittlopteti pad passed.—(Cheers.) come Lord BROUGHAM, in rising to address their Lord ships, was astonished to have heard of its being said, net many hours ago, that he, who had all along been a sup porter of free trade, should now turn his back upon and refuse to aid in putting the crown upon the last pillar of its triumphs. Be gloried in the conquest referred to — he gloried in having obtained that moral triumph of what he believed to be the soundest principles of poli tical philosophy, and over the most groundless preju dices by which its progress was ever attemptel to be obstructed. But if there were any one drop in that cup of pride which was more sweet and palatable to him, it was the recollection that the most eminent statesmen had given up tleir prejudices against free trade, and had j. fined him in carrying the repeal of the corn-laws. He hoped that after the long voyage their Lordships had among the dry details of statistics, and which it was their fate to continue somewhat longer, though not under the able and enlightened guidance of his Noble Friend (the Marquis of Lansdowne), they would excuse him if ho would resist the opportunity of enlivening the subject, for one moment, by what long experience in that deliberative assembly had proved to him to be more interesting than any, however important, statistical question.—(Hear, bear.) But he must first positively deny the assertion that that was a question of free trade, or that the navigation-laws had any sort of con nexion with it, for some of their Lordships considered that this measure was a miserable fragment of free trade. He would ask, who was the leader of the great free-trede principle? Who was the eminent apostle of that doctrine? Whose work was it that constituted as it were the Scriptural volume of authority for all free traders and all political economists of that school ? Beyond all question, the great apostle of free trade was Ac am Smith, the author of " The Wealth of Nations." And yet Adam Smith declared that as opu lence was less important than defence, the navigation laws were the wisest of the commercial regulations of England.—(Hear, hear.) Washington, the revered j founder of the American constitution, and the father of American freedom, signalised his entrance into office, at the end of the American war, by a statement of the absolute necessity of America's taking measures, by the encouragement of the American and the discourage ment of foreign shipping, for securing a maritime ascendancy in teeir own ports.—(llear, hear.) Again, Maddisen, who on many questions differed from Wash ington, signalised his administration by the adoption of that course of policy which the navigation-laws bad sanctioned in tine country. His argument was, that although such a policy might lead to some financial loss, or to some cemtnercial restrictions, it was right that the interests of the revenue and of commerce should yield to the higher object of national security. He (Lord Brougham) had also to state that it was the doc trine of Mr. Huillisson—whose opinions upon that sub ject had been so misunderstood—that where com merce and marine came into antagonism, com merce shou'd yield, as it was upon our marine that the safety of the country mainly depended.—(Hear, hear.) His Noble Ft iend had told them that it appeared from " Pepys' Diary" that the navigation-laws had been found to have failed fifteen years alter their enacts melte But it was not the navigation-laws that had led at that period to the decline of our marine. The fact was that Charles 11. had not maintained his navy in a state cf efficiency from a want of the funds necessary for that purpose, or from a want of a desire to devote the funds at his disposal to the construction of ships or the payment of able seamen. His Noble Friend, in the course of his argument, had embarked in a sea of figures ; but he (Lord Brougham) believed that his Noble Friend could riot embark on a more dangerous voyage than by launching out upon the great ocean of statistics in the good ship " Board of Trade, G. R. Porter, master."—(A laugh.) Indeed he feared that in such a voyage the shipwreck of his Noble Friend was all but inevitable. During the whole of his experience, from the year 1808 to 1812, in 1817, in 1824, and 1842 —during all these different crises in commercial affairs, he thought that nothing but evil ever arose from any of cur statesmen founding their mercantile policy on details of figures and statistical tables. There was no proposition which might not be proved by the statistical tables.—(Elear, hear.) It was w ell known that these statistics were done by a process of cooking.—(clear and laughter.) Tho Committee which had sat on that question had sufficiently elicited the process by which those tables were prepared. Yet upon those his Noble Friend had relied in support of his case. He had desired them to look to the state of Ame rican shipping. His Noble Friend had told them, on the authority of those tables, that while our tonnage had increased by such an amount, the American tonnage bad only increased by such another amount. His Noble Friend had said that all that was the consequence of pro tection. Now, it so happened that he (Lord Brougham) had access to the same accounts to which his Noble Friend hr d access, and what did he find was the case? He had extracted from the report a few questions which would throw some light on that matter. "It appears," said a member of the Committee, examining the wit ness who had prepared those statistical accounts—" it appears, in pages 447-57, that you have taken the whole of the British, and only part of the American tonnage into your calculation," The witness admitted as much. " Then," continued the examiner, " can any degree of accuracy whatever he ascribed to that account, as a fair statement of the comparative extent of British and American tonnage?" "Certainly not," said the witness.—(Laughter.) Suppose one asked his cook— " Is what you have served up for dinner good food or not?" and the cook answered, " Certainly not"—(Laugh ter)—would that be thought a very satisfactory meal to sit down to?—(Hear and laughter.) The witness was further asked, " Have you no means of remedying this error, or of correcting this inaccuracy?" His reply was, "I do not know that I have. I rather think I have, but Lain not certain."—(Much laughter.) Such were the statistics upon which his Noble Friend founded his case. Now, with respect to the old system of the navigation laws, as laid down by Mr. Huskisson, they did not object to,his proposition. The policy had been adopted with the view of arranging the reciprocity system and the differential duties, and prohibition had been en tirely out of the question. Mr. Porter, Mr. Ri cardo, and all those who were for repealing the navigation-laws, bad stated that it would be found the protected trade had not increased near so much as the unprotected trade. Yet it had been acknowledged that so false a heading had never been put in a book as that which professed to describe the " protected" and " un protected" trades. It should - have been protected and less protected. All the following places should be in a different class from that in which they appeared in the tables in question. The Roman States, Tuscany, Gibraltar, China, Java, the lonian Islands, and the South Seas. That made a difference of no less than 350,000 tons in the account, which was nearly one-half of the whole. Such returns, therefore, were not those upon which they could safely legislate. It was another part of the principle of the navigation-laws to keep as much of the carrying trade in our own bands as we could, and to keep other countries as much as possible from it. It had been said that 215,000 tons of shipping were now engaged in the carrying trade, which were likely to be put out of it if that measure were not passed. Now that was a fiction of the grossest—he was almost going to say scandalous nature he had ever heard.— (Hear.) Ile had never seen a more unfounded misre presentation. The calculations of tonnage had been taken from the number of voyages which the ships made. There had been 47 ships of about 7,G00 tons entirely, and they having made 32 voyages on the year, the abovementioned amount of tonnage had been set down in the calculation.—(llcar, hear.) There was one ship called the Magician, set down as at 14,200 tons, yet she was only 96 tons burden, but she made 146 voyages on the year, and that was the way in which her magical amount of tonnage had been made out.—(Hcar, hear.) Ile would leave it to those Hon. Members of the other House of Parliament, who called upon their fancies for their facts, and their memories for their jokes—(Laugh ter)— to reconcile such an amount of exaggeration as that account showed.—(Hear, hole) Allusion had been made to the Russian trade with this country. Now there was no question relative to the navigation-laws between this country and Russia. No goods could now be exported from Russia, unless Russia had been the entrspot for the same. One of the witnesses examined had said with regard to the difference between Eng lish and Russian seamen, that one of the for mer would do the work of twelve of the latter.—(Hear, hear.) Now he (Lord Broughom) believed that to be an exaggeration. It had been said that they were now dealing only with the remains or fragments of the old navigation-laws. But he maintained that these fragments were of a large or gigantic size, and in dealing with them he conceived they should not be dealt with in the contemptuous manner which the pro- moters of the present measure treated them. Under the remains of that system no less than 1,500,000 tons of shipping were engaged—no less than 20,000 seamen were employed—and a capital of near 5,000,0001. em barked.—(Hear, hear.) Yet it was said that the present system could not be continued, chiefly on account of the discontent of Canada. With respect to the trade by the St. Lawrence with the United States, he contended there was perfect freedom of trade between Canada and the United States, and that either might export to the other is their own shipping. What had induced Mr. Pitt to make a change in the navigation-laws of his time was the great changes which had taken place in the West Indies, the colonies, and the South American States, since the passing of the 12th of Charles colonies, n ksw shouldi Spanish a r l ne d , h a ab and it adapt IL They had to be suited to the new condition of the wg h b ne e e a s t td c e os t was e usit d iro nilobnasnewicaitanh: moe a re t tsthoi principle also that Mr. Hus ho,siaunAtdel3mlyrtraeezrnaiiecl;cate,Mhsescestmexrayiscaeosd:fhoaatlreo: countries, and net as colonies. But even this had not been done with ou t great sacr i f i ces. If Noble Lords and for gi t n h eg e extent they ey y n • w e t a eo r ef s d b l, e 3fi f o o no r d e vtlebBses2et2l our would look to our returns of seamen and•tonnege for had l s s ix o, 0 3 0 .e 0 a fallen r t s e neeff, following, it ee theib course of the six years after 1822, and that it did not recover itself for sixteen years.—(Hear.) He rested this assertion, not on returns made si ith reference to thin particular question, but on the annual returns made from 1822 to 1838, before this subject was agitated. He should now come to what he considered the gist of the ques tion, which ke could not help thinking his Noble Friend opposite, conscious of the weal:nets of his case, had most carefully avoided. The policy of the navigation-laws —a policy continued by Mr. Huskisson through all, be would not say the changes, but the alterations which he proposed, was founded on the principle laid down by Adam Smith, that the great object of every island whose coas ts were extensive compared with its inland territory, ought to be to encourage by all reasonable means the formation of a mercantite navy, as the foun dationimpossible of a mi litar y navy, H o n - ieheut the other. (Hear, bear.) His ; - „,1 „ Il e a * et ete, when he alluded to Bonaparte's Nowe o t e riss, and cortAnnee," bad taken a 5n ling e ‘ speech thee any le uhiplication of greater latitude o, _ moo The fact was, that Bona figures by 150. — (A breathed Worth a wish hostile to , darts, in uttering thes e no, " frai IsT obis o ships, Mtto, and cognac t. , Peers on the Ministerial side.) The best proof of it was an anecdote e hich arose on an occasion which be was old enough to recollect—the occasion of a festival at Guild hall, at is hich he was present, and at which Mr. Pitt gave as a toast, " The Ships, Colonies, and Commerce of England."—(Hear, hear.) That was a most able retort en Napoleon, but would have been pointless if all that Napoleon wished was ships, and colonies, and com merce. True, be had no mercantile navy—no commerce, no colonies—and the reason was because England had ships, colonies, and commerce, because she bad fostered the growth of that magnificent mercantile marine—be cause she had encouraged that without which she never would have had a navy at all, because she bad ' for the last 150 years abided by that policy without deviation, except to adept successive changes to keep that policy intact, for the purpose of promoting not merely the commerce of the country, but the growth of a m !rcsn tile navy and the building of ships and the raising of men.—(Hear.) He was stating now what he bad stated in a publication on this subject so long ago as the year 1802. He had in that work attempted to show the bear ing of the principles of his great master, Adam Smith, and had maintained the great advantage of colonies to the mother country. Those zealous individuals who were what were called free-trad e rs never ceased quoting Adam Smith as a great authority, although they wished us to have no colonies whatever.—(Hear, bear.) They considered the colonial trade as a foreign trade, only returning one capital, but it was an abuse of terms to call our colonial trade a f o r e i gn t ra d e . It replaced two capitals, and was in all essentials a home trade. To trade with Jamaica instead of Brazil was to replace two capitals, the English capital and the Jamaica capital. If any person would look to the valleys of Westmore land or Lancashire, or going further north examine the counties of Inverness and Hess, ho would see a proof of the soundness of thi s d octr i ne i n t h e very na mes of the villas—names suggestive of Jamaica, Barbadoes, Trini dad,. and Demerara, and s h ow i ng th a t the owners had built their houses, had cultivated their grounds, and ha' made the barren h ea th sm il e, b y the f ortunes accumu lated in Jamaica, B ar badoes,'and our other West Indian possessions.—(Hear, hear.) It became, there fore, not merely our national glory, but our commercial prosperity, to have these magnificent colonial establish ments. They were, in fact, but extensions of the terri tory of our native land. Providence had bountifully cast our lot in an island fertile in agricultural resources, and under a climate well c a l cu l ate d to p r oduce habits of daring and industry in our population. In one respect, however , our co un t r y was limited—it was limited in variety of production. The produce was not that d om o a n n d g which el la n a t r t y r o o p f i c o al or btl a n nc h e a s d tor s s ho h n a e d . c a r ti r i t t d h across c w r s s the seas— "The flag which braved a thousand years The battle and the breeze." They had planted it in the Antilles—in South America .—in the Cape—in India—and even in China itself ; and had conquered for us the advantages of other suns and other climates.—(Hear, hear.) Should we then aban don this empire ?—(No.) No, said his Noble Friend opposite. He perfectly agreed with his Noble Friend in the cosmopolitan principle of wishing well to every country ; but then he could not go quite so far as his Noble Friend, and allow foreigners to share in that magnificent colonial empire, the outlines of which he had feebly attempted to sketch. He could never con sent that America should have ,all the benefits, and be left to its own good pleasure to reciprocate.— (Hear, hear.) Upon that question the Government of the United States bad been sounded, and something like a disavowal had been put forth of the concessions promised by Mr. Bancroft. Now this Bill proposed to give an American or any other foreign ship, in a commercial point of view, the same benefit in the trade of this country as a British ship. It might bring home our colonial produce and take out our exports to our colonies, without any equivalent advantage to us, the foreigner not contributing one shilling to the expense ot our colonial government. So much with regard to the colonial trads. With respect to the building of ships and the breeding of sailors, his Noble Friend opposite had said that no danger was to be apprehendei. If so, whence the petitions on the subject? How came the Liverpool petitions to be signed by as many as 47,000 persons? The Earl of HARROWBY:—And by the corporation. Lord BROUGHAM :—And, a s his Noble Friend, who once represented Liverpool, suggested, " and by the corporation." Sir James Graham might flatter himself that Liverpool was in favour of the Bill because its two Members supported it, if be could only explain away the petition e from that lu th e town very against ßill i itself f h the eßill, found with u its ally. 47 I ,000 t number of Acts, but the first section stated that it was also intended to protect strictly and signatur es. bgan by e pealing a _ was ot shte?;)thewiv,hhyolethciosadstiisntgrutsrtandfetohfutphreinecoiupnle free trade in navigation? Upon _ts hat principle d it proposed to continue to protect the home ,u trade, e r t t withdraw protection from the colon's h (el .) of which the whole of the n avi g ation-laws rested. " Oh, Not o t o u s r u r b e e l y s t b s e e c u a tu u s e e n the f coasting by a t r s a t d b e e w p ei r i s h t e the n u u r u s p e o y r ?, everybody uschu s a b p o l u y ld as b h e e a u l u lo u vi ld 'ef , dt t 'o lie ‘m‘ restriction on the bringing of ar market y or on the shipment of wheat f ctsW r oao o ahcd m ilysr,hr t f th e n ho o l eNI from corn-growing p roduceen - F g 6t i r ren o iaue w enet i l n e i districts to the market of the metropolis?—(Hear.) Why was the agriculturist not to have the same be nefit as the merchant in the cheap conveyance of his produce? Why was it that all traffic on our rivers and canals and along our coasts should be by British born subjects alone? But why not do it as well for the internal us the coasting trade? For the obvious reason, that they entertained no strong desire to encourage the class of drovers and waggoners. Evidence had been adduced to show why the proposed change should take place. Now, some of the evidence adduced was most astonishing. For instance, Mr. Mitchell stated that two Englishmen would do as much work as twelve write. Now hNisoewvidebnec;:erndt oi3nrotougshbaomw)that a great , ioa w ru h w i had been three times as long mass of the masters were so ignorant as to be unable to who had had ten times the experience of Mr. Mit chell, knew e R readbmenaesi shipping trade, and wh ose respectability em w paslobydeeyoinn the question—some of them being as good Whigs as his Noble Friends opposite— (Laughter)—and as zealous for the doctrine of free trade —and these men had given him their distinct assurance that such had not been the case within their experience, and that Mr. Mitchell must have been unfortunate if he hod employed captains, 50 per cent. of whom could not read or write.—(Hear.) He now came to the marrow and pith of tho whole question. ofld b th o e udi f o o g reig z n bi e p r s , si e f e te d r this sweeping measure should become law, undersell us in our two ships ?—(Hear, hear.) Upon that question of great articlessounavigatingissue w as joined. He was about to prove that this would be the case. The first witness examined was a shipowner of the port of Leith, and his evidence was confirmed by other persons. He stated that be had tried to build a ship of 500 tons in the most economical man ner possible before this question arose, and without regard to it. The vessel cost him 20/. per ton. Now, deducting the 21. per ton for the duty on timber, which might be abolished, that would leave the cost of the vessel 181. per ton. What'would have been the cost of building the same ship at Dantzic? Why, 12/. per ton. —(Hear, hear.) But even supposing the charges to be 141. or 151., and 121., that would be fatal.—(Hear, hear.) When they spoke of ship building in England, they spoke of an immense interest. A capital of no less than 16,000,0001. was embarked. The sum annually spent in the building of ships was 3,000.0001. The outfit and repairs amounted to 8,000,0001.—(Flear, hear.) The number of shipwrights employed was about 80,000 at 4s. per day—a set of men as industrious, as sober, as skilful, as any men of which the country oe'uld boast.—(Hear.) This was an immense interest, a great and magnificent branch of business with which ePar liament was making free, and upon which he w.a rhd . them not unduly to lay a rude hand.—(Hear, Mr. Minton, an American, was examined , an d hear. after? wards some Russians and Prussians, and all gave evi dence, every man for himself. Now with respect to wages. The wages of the master in the Baltic were 3/. per month, and five per cent. upon the tonnage, altogether about 51. per month. In e glum and Holland the master received only about 41 . But Belgium making what did he receive in England? 81. 10s.—((1ear, hear) —Bl. los., according to Mr. Mitchell, for a man who could neither read nor write, and 51. for a P russ i an , who could do both.—(A laugh.) The men in the Baltic and the other countries to wtiich ot. hehad referred re ceivedf; I l in e a r, Englan d,hear.) 3L— (Hear, This from 30s. to 355. per month Bd._ hear.) The price of food here wits Is. 3d. per E h i us g ie l t ish navigation between this country and other u f t h u e otin ri comparisonee English shipbuild ingwd l a y s ;t andhi n e occult foreign ports; and if anybody would look at th e relative numbers an sums, and observe the foundation in the distance of material and the different habits of the people in the one case, and, in the other, the nearness of the material and tho other habits of the people—if any one would look at those two points, the reason of the thing going along with the facts and figures—they would come to this conclusion, that it is impossible, without protection, for this country to enter into suc cessful competition with the United States and the Baltic, either in the building of ships or the sailing of them.—(Cheers.) Now, what did this Bill do ? It strengthened the monopoly of the coasting trade, and it continued the most oppressive of all the Navigation Act regulations, the provision that every British ship shall be manned by an English master, and that three-fourths of the crew shall be Englishmen.—(Hear, hear.) But why did the Bill retain the three-fourths? For this reason :—They dared not give it up—they knew how much they depended upon these seamen.—(Hear, hear.) They knew what the consequences of not having them druawgumet u tn i s i o li f s t d h a e y s , y would stem ; or nevert e l l them preserve from would be; and that all they could d o an d preac h to t h ese men about f r e e t ra d e — a b ou t th e nav i gat i on- l aws and the t . (Cheers.)f or them that Butm o h s u t w i nvaluable important was u:mto to B themtrisehPY s maintain r s o h p hi c t i e r b a h e e r . a y m_ t e t It was said, " you may have ono-fourth foreigners;" but ho (Lord Brougham) thought they could not mix one fourth foreigners with three-fourths English. That would be impossible. They might pass the Bill, but they would never be able to place one-fourth foreigners among three-f ourt h s B r i t i s h seamen . A n d why ? Be• cause they m us t h ave th e same wages, they must eat the same food, and could not speak the same coastingthl i a s n B gu i al trade,,g inconsistente'— language.—(Cheers.) andbee wr what suicidal ibd ea w le o oi u hn l dereeqhs consequence? e p e oc p et c et n o? . would But itself, stbuheii The English trader, or shipowner, or merchant would employ a foreign ship—(blear, hear)—and not one fourth, but four-fourths.—(Hear.) I ' 2ll at would be the inevitable result. Ho would beseech their Lordships to pause betore placing so great an interest in jeopardy -4,000,000 of tens of shipping, navigated by 250,000 men, these Dieu being the nursery for our navy. What was the consequence of having these men? A navy, which rides triumphantly upon every sea. What would be the other consepeace? Whet war brooks osi—owing to the vile, meddling, inconsistent, and false policy every where pursued by this country—the policy of touching everything, and grasping nothing—forgetting the gar dener's proverb. "he who would touch a nettle must grasp it." If they went on in an open way they might foresee a war, and they would be prepared for it. Through no fault of their own, through no mistake in their policy, yet they might be involved in a war, and then how was their navy to be manned and maintained? Before that series of immortal victories which had handed down to fame the names of our St. Vincents and our Nelsons, our I >uneans and our Howes, and which were the glory of our military service—just previous to the breaking out of the war which led to those brilliant and immortal achieve ments, they had only 16,000 sailors iti the nal.) , in all their ports and in all the King's ships. In less than six weeks 35,000 were added to the number.—(Cheers.) Whence came they? were they landsmen they had en listed? No such thing. They were sailors from the mercantile marine. When the war lid exhausted the navy, and they had had recourse to the fatal system of enlisting quota men, as.they were called, from the pa rishes, there was seen one of the most disgraceful scenes which the country had ever known—the mutiny at the Nore was entirely owing to their having recourse to landsmen in manning their ships. In place of the 16.000 seamen, their numbers now were nearly doubled —instead of 16,000 being maintained on a peace estab lishment, they had now 32,000 er 33,000, and there fore the increase in the mercantile navy as a nursery for the Royal navy was not out of proportion. He spoke in times when he would be a bold man who would take upon himself to pre diet that the peace of Europe would be maintained. God avert the omen, but when they looked across the Channel and saw a Republic whose fate was yet suspended in the ba lance and which rested upon a comprehensive military organization, who could say how long the peace of the world would be maintained? Ile knew very well why the troops had been sent to Civita Vecchia; it was neither to restore the Pope or because Austria had threatened to interfere; it was because no French Mi nister—no French President—durst refuse the French people, at least the people of Paris, an object on which they were bent. That was why the troops had been sent to the Papal States; that was why the general in command had written a letter for publication in Paris, declaring that he had landed all his troops without firing a shot. Why should they have fired a - shot when there was no one to oppose them? Who could answer for the peace of Europe with that population in such a state? a population which had nearly driven the most peace able Minister under Louis Philippe to march an army across the Alps. He rejoiced at the great and glorious victories obtained by Marshal Radetzky, and only la mented that he had not completed his work by occupying Turin.—(Hear.) That was an error, because such an act of foolish forbearance had led to bloodshed at Genoa and elsewhere. The great victories and the humanity of Marshal Radetzky had preserved Piedmont; Genoa was now at peace, and the people were now throwing off the yoke of the most bass and degrad.ed mob leaders which had ever infested a country, and he trusted that the Romans were now pacified, and zealously setting about the establishment of order. Still no man could look at the peninsula and be sure of the continuance of peace. In Germany, from the Baltic to the Adriatic, there was one disposition animating all breasts, a de sire to shake existing institutions, and subvert the thrones which Jet remained. The Russians had marched to the north, in order to save Hungary from the anarchy induced by her Polish invaders. Look ing at all these things, who could predict with confi dence that at the end of three months all Europe would remain in a state of perfect peace?—(Hear.) Was that time well chosen for making such a change? They were in 1849, the 'ear after that year of revolutions, 1848, before the waves - of rebellion had subsided—was that the time for reeking a great and sweeping change in that system by which the navy had been created and maintained—was it at such a time that they were about to reduce their thousand ships to hundreds—was it at such a time as that, when they might be called upon to struggle for very existence—was that the time to break up that system which provided sech a nursery far the navy? At any time it must be impolitic, but it was hardly safe to do it then. Was there any pressure for the measure—any pressure from without? The friends of the Government were saying that they would do no thing—they were not bold Ministers. Now boldness was an excellent thing in any one; in a Minister it was an admirable quality—boldness of the right kind, boldness to refuse all pressure from without—(Hear, hear) — boldness to conceive measures for the good of the coun try, and boldness to propose them, careless to whom he might give offence. There was another kind of boldness —a boldness in bringing forward large measures and put ting great interests in jeopardy. That was a boldness for which he had no admiration. That was a boldness; but the Minister was not bold at his own cost and charges, not bold in his own person, but vicariously—a boldness wherein the Minister did not confront his enemies, but mado the country confront its perils. If they gave up that nursery for their seamen, why should they go on spending the fifteen or sixteen millions on tLe army and navy? A certain sect had lately sprung up, calling themselves free-traders," but with whom real free traders could hold no communion, and employed them selves in preaching the reduction of all our great esta blishments. He was strongly of opinion that the step they were invited to take by her Majesty's Government was one which they could not wisely nor sa'cly take, Lecause if once taken they could not retrace it. The coasting trade was to be left untouched, and the re straints on the seamen were not abrogated; so that another agitation would be got up—another Ricardo would spring up, in order to have the last remnant of the system thrown overboard; and if the Bill passed he would say that it would be difficult to meet them. He had stated the grounds upon which he rested his oppo siden to the measure. He had looked at the ques tion and applied his mind to its consideration with an absolute forbearance of all party motives —•a throwing over of all personal feelings whatever, and be had discharged his duty in stating his opinion to the House. It was for their Lordships to deal with the measure. If the Bill were rejected, certain consequences, they . were told, would result. Now, if it were a matter of minor importance he would have no hesitation in yield iteq to his Noble Friend, for he desired no change, but when the fate of the mercantile marine, as well as the safety of the royal navy was at stake, his duty compelled him to a strenuous opposition to the measure the conse quence of which he so much dreaded. He desired no change whatever—he desired success to no party what ever, except to those who would honestly and manfully do their duty to the Queen and their country.—(Cheers.) What would be the effect of the measure upon the accursed slave trade? It would increase and stimulate that trade; for whatever tended to cheapen the car riage of sugar of Brazil would increase the slave trade on the coasts of Africa. When that fact was thrown into the bitter cup . to sweeten it, he could assure their Lordships that it was a question on which he could come to no compromise whatever. Believing his argu ments to be sound, as an honest man, as an English man, and as a Peer of Parliament, he felt bound to say that he must oppose the further progress of the measure. Lord GRANVILLE did not think be was called upon to enter into the question as to whether this Bill inter fered with the free•trade policy, nor to follow the Noble Lord in the various observations addressed by him to their Lordships' House; but it ctrtainly did appear to him with respect to the measure of free trade, and to the proposed change in the navigat ion-laws, that the more they endeavoured to remove restrictions from com merce, and the more they endeavoured to destroy even a limited monopoly, the better it would prove for the in terests of the country. The Noble and Learned Lord (Lord Brougham) had alluded to the commercial diffi culties of the question, and in that respect was more in clined to believe the opinions of the :shipowners. Now as to the petitions of the shipowners, it was to be ob theythe sh i pow n ers,were e t o didwhom no t they thin km they to apply the stimulus of competition. He had a great s r e e r s:e d ct th f a o t r would willingly mislead the public; but he doubted whether they themselves felt the alarms which they stated they apprehended from the passing of this measure.—(Hear, hear.) There were not more ships for sale at the present time than in former years, and ships were in progress of being built at Southampton and other places. He doubted whether many who took part against the present measure knew what the provisions of the navigation-laws were, or how they would be affected by their repeal.—(Hear, hear.) They had a large body of merchants who were apprehending great danger from the repeal of these laws. Seeing, however, the great increase of trade which had taken place of late years, arid that free-trade had added to the wealth of the country, and materially increased the car rying trade, he thought it was necessary that a corre sponding change should take place in their maritime system. He would now allude to their warehousing system, and it appeared that the American Government had sent a gentleman over to this country to inquire into its operation, and to make himself acquainted with the rvoi king of the law. That gentleman had made a report, and he held in his hand an American paper, in which the operation of the warehousing system was invastigat-d and strongly recommended for adop tion in America, on account of its advantages to the commerce, the tonnage, and the revenue.—(Hear, hear.) The benefit the system had conferred on the country could not indeed be denied. Under their naviga tion -laws the fore ign er might send his produce in any ship ho pleased, while at the same time if a merchant in their colonies did so, the ships and cargo would be seized. —(Hear.) T it The fact was, that the merchants found trade forced into a certain channel by the navigation laws, and might be if that channel was somewhat widened it would bring in competitors, which would of course diminish the profits of those hitherto engaged in the shipping trade. The Noble Lord then referred to the evidence given before the Lords' Committee as to the operation of the navigation-laws, and contended that no one could doubt the advantages which a relaxation of those laws would confer on the country. The merchant was sure to do better by being left to himself. The Noble Lord next referred to shipping returns for a number of years past, for the purpose of showing the advantages which competition secured , a nd es p ecially regulating the prices of freight. He next allude d to that in branch of the question which was inv olved in ship baild ing, and said that whatever might be the case as regard ed a certain class of vessels, it was quite cert ain . that . ship s t of the better class could be built cheaper in_tbhoisßcor onry than in any other part of the world. T he If any danger existed of competition e while thcoun trye iron and America, iron was hot, and place the commerce carried on between preen this • it would be well to str ike . the table, if passed into law would . be b a t self-acting law. i s a si m i e d d foo th ti a n t g w .— h ( ti H n e t a i r te , l 7 w a e r r .) e ()hal country in the world . to begin a war of tariffs.— time let loose the coasting trade also; but as to the latter w s a a s fe co a ro nd p He did not think it would become . the greatest eon) . mer pqrsuits, and ( t. the e countries a r tariffs.-- (Hear, h, a i, .) on l a t letting loose the foreign trade, they had not at the same it was clear that ro foreigner wo uld .. enter into competi tion with them. As to the British sailor, he believed him to bare a natural aptitude for maritime LONDON, T UESDAY EVEN ING, MAY 8, 1849. that all he wanted was good treatment and to be fairly remunerated. He believed that two-thirds of the seamen in the American service were British, and although the Noble and Learned Lord (Lord Brougham) had said that the Americana worked their seamen hat der and fed them worse, he (Lord Granville) could not understand, if that were the case, how it eras that so many of the Bri tish seamen should enter into the American service. In regard to the statistical part of the subject, he suspected from the manner in which the Noble and Learned Lord who had last spoke had inveighed against statistics, that he had found those statistics to tell against himself.— (Hear, hear.) lie thought., however, considering the high position that Noble Lord occupied—the many emi nent stwions end exalted offices he had held under the Crown, as well as considering the commanding and sar• castic nature of his eloquence—that he ought not to have come down there and made the unjust and unprovoked attack he had done on Mr. Porter—(hear, hear) — of the Board of Trade. That Gentlemaa could not be there to answer for himself; and, therefore, the attack was all the more uncourteous. That gentleman having been desired to melee up a statement of the comparative increase which had taken place in protected and unpro tected trade, had stated that while protected trade bad only increased 94 per cent., unprotected trade had in creased 200 per cent. That statement was in the main correct, and it showed that the navigation•laws, instead of increasing, was a drawback upon the increase of trade. With regard to Denmark, where they could build ships much cheaper than in this country, and conse quently had in that respect the ne7vantage of them, yet it was a curious fact, that the direct trade of Denmark should be three times as much as its indirect, and that they were at this moment advertising for British sea men to man their vessels. So far as America was con• corned, there could be no dread of competition. It was true that since 1815 the tonnage of American vessels had increased 108 per cent., the great increase being on the coasting trade, while our trade had increased 45 per cent. B u t was t h ere no difference in the popula• teen of the e two countri es ? I t was the fact, that while in that time the population of this country had only in creased 57 per cent., that of America had increased 143 or 144 per cent. So that while the tonnage of American ships bad increased as 362, its population had increased 36L He at once admitted that could he see the slightest chance of this Bill injuring their commercial marine, and committing the ravage on commerce which it was predicted it would do, he would oppose it most strenuously; but seeing that the people of this country were as able to compete in shipbuilding, as well as in everything else, he had no fear that any of the evils predicted would befall them. At this moment there was no country which had ships and sailors to compete with them at once; the change must be gradual, and therefore time would be given before the struggle came, and as to the result of that struggle he had no doubt. Lord BROUGHAM, in explanation, said that Mr. Porter was a witness examined before the Committee of their Lordships' House, and therefore it was his right and duty to animadvert upon his evidence. Lard COLCHESTER said before making any altera tion in these laws, they ought to learn what were the in tentions of their authors and what had been their re sults. Lard STRA.NGFORD said that though he sat close to the Noble Lord (Lord Colchester), yet ho could not hear one word in consequence of the noise below the bar. Lord COLCHESTER resumed, but was equally in audible throughout. His arguments went to show how protection had and would operate beneficially on the capital, commerce, and interest of shipbuilders and sea men of this country. The Duke of ARGYLE felt it his duty to give his reasons for voting in favour of the Bill. lie considered that there were three great general points on which that measure should be discussed. First, on the principal of free trade; secondiy, its own intrinsic merit; and, thirdly, on the political situation of the country. On the first he believed that his opinions did not disagree with those of their Lordships. The arguments of the Protec tionists would go back to a repeal the reciprocity treaties; but he confessed that he could see much in mo dern commerce to encourage them to go forward in the principles of relaxation, although their acts miet not be based upon reciprocity. It appeared to him thatseveral natural cau•es were in operation to encourage the Baltic powers in securing the direct trade to their shipping. In considering the consequences of reciprocity, they should also have some consideration for the certain conse quences which must have resulted from the adoption of a contrary policy. They could not take a middle course; they must have reciprocity either in restriction or relaxation, and in either alternative it behoved them to consider the results of this retaliatory policy. From a very able answer to Mr. Ricardo's " Anatomy of the Navigation Laws," entitl•sd " Mr. Ricardo's Anatomy of the Navigation Laws Dissectee," it appeared that in 1815 the reciprocity treaties were passed, and that i❑ 1830 the English tonnage reached the height from which it fell in 1790, but which it had previously been unable to attain. From the rettirns of the tonnage in the Baltic trade, also, it appeared that the English tonnage exceeded 22-fold that of the Baltic Powers; and hence arose the presumption that when the Baltic ships were admitted to competition in foreign quarters, they would not very considerably distress them. If he thought that this measure were at all calculated to produce a prejudicial effect on the commerce of the country, no consideration whatever—not even the threatened resig nation of the Government should induce him to support it. But believing that it had no such tendency, he should not hesitate to give it his unqualified and cordial assent. Tho Earl of ELLENBOROUG LI said he agreed with his Noble Friend near him, that between the question of free trade, and the question raise d by this Bill, there was no connexion whatever. On former occasions, when he happened to be in England, he bad voted for mea sures, the effect of which was to produce a relaxation in their commercial code. Ile had voted for those mea sures because he thought they tended to increase the wealth of the country, without danger to its essential in terests. Ile would vote against this measure, because he bAieved, that while it might possibly tend to increase the wealth of the country, it went directly to under mine one of its nearest and most important interests. It was impossible to exaggerate the importance of looking to the mercantile navy as the source from whence the navy of the country WAS to be recruited. Up to the present time they had maintained their supre macy at sea with honour and advantage to themselves, and he did not doubt that were they called upon to fight to morrow, their men would distinguish themselves for their courage and national devotion, as they had ever done. But the maintenance of their supremacy would depend upon the issue of the fight, and though he hoped it would not be doubtful, still he could not disguise the fact that much would depend upon the commencement of the battle, and that France at the present moment was better prepared than they. She had a larger disposable force ready to engage in Euro pean warrare, the same number of ships, with a larger number of mtsn and marines, and better means of re cruiting them. In considering that fact, and the ease with which a force might be transported from point to point, by a steam navy, it behoved them to be ex tremely cautious how, by a measure of this sort, they rendered their position still weaker by compa , ison. The Noble Lard then referred to to a petition from a body of persons in the West Indies, setting forth the importance of the interests of trade, and of relaxing the restrictions affecting it. He also referred to the Cana dians, who, if any body were entitled more than another to a relaxation in their favour of the restrictions on na vigation, were, in his opinion, most so; but he would not, he said, be swayed by either West Indian or Ca nedian; he should rather be directed in this question by a reference to the more immediate interests of Eng lishmen. He felt that if the inhabitants of the pro vinces of this great empire banded themselves together in a mutual compact for mutual benefits, they might defy the world, but if they made the acquisition of wealth the aole and main object of their legislation, be assured they would fall as other nations had done be fore them, and when they fell, it would be "unwept, nuhonoured, and disgraced." Tile Earl of CARLISLE rose, and moved that the debate be adjourned to this day. Their Lordships adjourned at a Quarter past Twelve o'clock. APPEARANCE OF TIIE HOUSE OF LORDS LAST EVENING.—The lobbies and avenues to the (louse of Lords last evening were crowded as early as four o'clock by those persons who were fortunate enough to possess Peers' orders to the strangers' gallery, which was crowded to excess. The whole of the space below the bar was likewise fully occupied, as it always is on the evening of a great discussion . The space at the foot of the throne was crowded by gentlemen possessing the right of entrée. In the Commons' gallery there were about twenty gentlemen, and the ladies' gallery, on the opposite side, was more than half filled with elegantly dressed ladies, who appeared to take a great interest in the proceedings. The attendance of Peers was early and numerous, the Marquis of Lansdowne appearing in full dress—" his constant custom " on field nights. DEBUT OF MR. F. PEEL IN THE HOUSE OF COM.. moNs.—The son of Sir Robert Peel, the newly-elected Member for Leominster, made his maiden speech last evening, in favour of the second reading of the Bill for the emancipation of the Jews, and never have we heard a more successful maiden speech. The lion. Gentleman has all the requisites for an orator. In voice, and manner, and personal appearance, he bears a great resemblance to his illustrious father. llis speech was not only eloquent but logical, and full of sout.d sense. H e i, in every way worthy of his sire. lie was much cheered, more particularly from the Ministerial benches, and has evidently done that which few Members do in a maiden speech, secured the ear of the House of Com. moos. BURGLARY.—A daring attempt was made on Sa turday night last to break into the back premises of Messrs. Gi!lott, Admiralty tailors, 36, Strand; foiled in their object by the strength of the fastenings, the thieves turned their attention to the houses on either side, both of which they succeeded in entering. They carried off a considerable booty from the Lowther Bszaar, and did much damage to Mr. Taylor's, No. 37, by breaking open desks, drawers, &c., but fortunately did not find much there to reward their labours. The establishment of an American line of steam ships hc!..let.n New York i.nd Havre is no longer doubt ful ; mid the steam ship Franklin, which is as yet but hal;-fini=ln.d, ha s b een purc h ase d f or t h e s e rvice by Messrs. Fox and Livingston, of New Yolk. Sho Kill be . ready for sea in a b out th ree mont h s ; an d the keel of a second stea mer i s t o b e i mme di ate ly laid down.— Livcrpool Albion. PARLIAMENTARY DIVISIONS. (From the Votes and Proceedings of the House of Commons.) MONDAY, MAY 7. PARLIAMENTARY OATHS BILL. Order for Second Reading read ; Motion made, and Question proposed, " That the Bill be now read a second time :" Amendment proposed, to leave) out the word " now," and at the end of the Question to add the words " upon this day six months :" Question put, " That the word now' stand part of the Question." The House divided : MAJORITY—AYES, 278. Gibson, T. M. Paget, Lord G. Gladstone, W. E. Palmer, Roundell Glyn, G. C. Palmerton, Vis. Grace, O. D. Parker, John Graham, Sir J. Pearson, Charles Granger, T. C. Peahen, Captain Greene, John Peel,„Sir Robert Grenfell, C. P. Peel, Frederick Grenfell, Charles W. Perfect, Robert Grey, Sir George Philips, Sir G. R. Grey, Ralph W. Pigott, Francis Guest, Sir John Pilkington, J ames Haggitt, F. A. Pinney, W. Hallyburton, Lord J. Power, Nicholas Hamer, Sir John Powlett. Lord W. Ilardcastle, J. A. Pryse, Pryse }lards, Richard Pusey, Philip Hawes, Beni. Rawdon, Colonel Hay, Lord J. Reynolds, John Hayter, W. G. Ricardo, Osman Hcadiam, Thomas Rice. R. R. Heathcoat, John Rich, Henry Heneage, Edward Robartes, T. J. Henry, Alexander Roebuck, J A. Abdy, T. N. Adair, Hugh E. Adair, R. Shafto Adare, Viscount Aglionby, H. A. Alcock, Thomas Andarson, Arthur Anson, Colonel Armstrong, Sir A. Armstrong, R. B. Arundel, Earl of Bagshaw, John Baines, H. T. Baring, Sir F. T. Bass, Thomas Bellew, K. Id. Berkeley, Captain Berkeley, H. F. Berkeley. C. L. G. Bernal, Ralph Birch, Mr Thomas Macklin, S. W. Blake, Martin J. Blewltt, Reginald Brand, Thomas Bright, John Brockman, E. D. Brotherton, J. Brown, W. Browne, R. D. Buikeley, Sir R. Bunbury, Edward Buxton, Sir E. Callaghan, D. Cardwell, E. Carter, John B. Caulfeild, J. M. Cavendish, C. C. Cavendish, W. G. Cayley, E. S. Charters, Francis Cholmeley, Sir M. Clay, James Clay, Sir W. Clements, Charles Clerk, Sir G. Clifford, Henry M. Cobden, Richard Cockburn, Alex. Coke, E.:JK. Colcbrooke, Sir T. Collins, IV. Cowan, Charles Cowper, W F. Craig, W. G. Crawford, IV. S. Crowder, R. B. Currie, Raikes Dalrymple, Captain Davie, Sir H Dawson, T. V. Denison, Edmund Denison, W. J. Devereux, J. T. Disraeli, B. Duff, George S. Duke, Sir J. Duncan,_Viscount Duncan, George Dundas, Admiral Dundas, Sir David Ebrington, Viscount Ellice, E., jun. Ellis, John Elliot, J. E. Evans, Sir De Lacy Evans, William E wart, William Fagan, William Fergus, John Ferguson, Colonel Ferguson, Sir K. Fitzroy, Henry Fitzwilliam, G. W- Foley, J. H. Fordyce, A. D. Forster, Matthew Herbert, H. A. Heywood, James Hey - worth, L. Hiudley, Charles Hobhouse, Sir J. Ilobhouse, T. B. Hodges, T. L. Hogg, Sir J. Hollond, Robert llorsman, E. Howard, Lord E. Howard, C. W. Howard, Sir R. Hutt, William Jackson, William Jerilyn, Earl Jervis, Sir John Johnstone, Sir J. Keogh, William Keppel, George T. Kershaw, James King, P. J. Labouchere, Henry Langston, J. H. Lascelles, W. S. Lawless, Cecil Lemon, Sir Charles Lennard, T. B. Lewis, G. C. Lincoln, Earl of Loch, James Locke, Joseph Lushington, Charles iii`Cullagh, W. T. M'Gregor, John Meagher, Thomas Maitland, T. Mangles, It. D. Marshall, J. G. Marshall, William Martin, C. W. Martin, Samuel Melgund, Viscount Matheson, James Matheson, Colonel Milner, W. M. Milnes, R. M. Milton, Viscount Mitchell, A. T. Moffatt, George Molesworth, Sir W. Monsen. William Morris, David Mostyn, E. M. Mowatt, Francis Mulgrave, Earl Muntz, G. F. Korreys, Lord Korreys, Sir D. Nugent, Sir Percy O'Brien, Joha O'Connell,' J. O'Connor, Feargus Romilly, Sir John Russell, Lord J. Russell, E. Russell, F. C. Rutherford, A. Sadleir, John Salwey, Colonel Sandars, George Scholefleld, W. Scully , Francis Seymour, Sir H. B. Seymour, Lord Shat to, R. D. Shell, R. L. Shelburne, Earl of Sheridan, R. B. Smith, R. V. Smith, J. A.: Smith, John B. Smythe, G. Somers, J. P.l Somerville. Sir W. Stansfield, W. R.G. Stanton, W. 5. 4 Staunton, Sir G. Strickland, Sir G. Stuart, Lord D. Stuart, Lcrd J. Talbot, C. R. Talbot, J. H. Taltourd, Serg. ant Tancred, H. W. Tenison, E. K. Tennent, I . J. Thleknesse, Ralph Thompson, Colonel 7 hompson, George Thornely, Thomas Tollemache, F. J. Towneley, John ti ownley, R. G. Townshend. Captain Trail, George Trelawny, J. S. Urquhart, David Vane, Lord H. Verney Sir H. Villiers, Charles Vivian, J. H. Wall, C. B. Walmsley, Sir J. Walter, John Watkins, Colonel Wawn, J. T. Westhead ,J. P. Wilcox, Brodie Williams, John Willyams, H. Williamson, Sr R. Wilson, James Wilson, Matthew Wood, Sir Charles Wood, W. P. Fortescue, Chichester O'Flaherly, Anthony Worcily, J. S. Fortescue, J. W. Ogle, S. C. Wrightson, W. B. Fox, Richard M. Ord, W. Wyld, James Fox, W. J. Oswald, A. Freestun, Colonel Owen, Sir J. TELLERS. French, F. Paget, Lord A. Hill, Lord 11. Gaskell, J. M. Paget, Lord Clarence Tufnell, IL MINORITY—NOES, 185. Acland, Sir T. Farnham, E. B. Miles, P. W. S. Adderley, C. B. Ferrer, James Miles, William Alexander, N. Fellowes, E. Moody, C. A. Arbuthmott, Hugh Filmer, Sir E. Morgan, 0. Arkwright, George Moyer, John Mailings, J. R. Ashley, Lord Forester, G. C. Napier, Joseph Bailey, Joseph Faller, A. E. Neeld, John Bailey, J., jun. Fox, S. L. Neeid, Joseph Ilaldock, E. it. Gftidard, A. L. Newdegate, N. Bankes, George Gooch, E. S. Noel, Gerald J. Beckett, William Gordon. Admiral Ossulston, Lord Bennet, Philip Gore. W. R. 0. Packo, C. W. Bentinck, Lord H. Goring, C. Pakington, Sir J. S. Bernard, Viscount Goulburn, Henry Palmer, Robert Blackstone, W. S. Granby, Marquis of Peel, Colonel Illandford, Marquis Greene, Thomas Pennant, Colonel Boldero, 11. 0. Grogan, Edward Ptgot, Sir R. Bourke, Richard S. Grosvenor, Earl Plowden, W. 11. Brackley, Viscount Gwyn, Bowel Plumptre, J. P. Bramston, T• W. Hale, R. B. Portal, Melville Bremridge, Richard Halford, Sir H. Raphael, Alexander Brisco, M. Hall, Colonel Reid. Colonel Broadiey, 11. Halsey, T. P. Repton, G. W. J. Bromley, Robert Hamilton, G. A. Richards, Richard Brooke, Lord Harris, Captain Rnshout, Captain Brooke, Sir Arthur Ileneago, G. H. W. Sanders, J. Bruce, C. L. C. Henley, J. W. Seybier, H. K. Buck, L. W. Hervey, Lord A. Shirley, E. J. Bunbury, William Hildyard, B. C. Sibthorp, Colonel Burghley, Lord Hildyard, T. B. T. Simeon, John Burrell, Sir C. Hodgson, W. N. Smyth, John G. Burroughes, 11. N. Hood, Sir A. Smollett, A. Chandos, Marquis of Hope, A. Somerset, Captain Chichester, Lord J. llotham, Lord Spooner, R. Christopher, R. Jolliffe, Sir W. G. Stafford, Augustus Christy,: Samuel Jones, Captain Stanley, B. H. Clive, B. H. Kerrison, Sir E. Stephenson, Robert Clive, 11. B. Itnightley, Sir C. Stuart, H. Cobbold, John C. Knox, Colonel Stuart, John Cochrane, A. Lacy, H. C. • Start, H. G. Codrington, Sir W. Lascelles, E. Taylor, T. E. Cole, Hon. H. A. Law, C. E. Thesiger, Sir F. Coles, Henry B. Leg h, G. C. Thompson, Alderman Compton, li. C. Lennox, Lord HG. Thornhill, G. Conolly, Thomas Leslie, C. P. Tollemacho, John Corry, Ir. Lindsay, Colonel Trollope, Sir:J. Cotton, W. 11. Lockhart, A. E. Turner, George Deedes, W. Lockhart, W. Tyrell, Sir J. Dod, J. W. Long, W. Verner, Sir W. Douro, Marquis of Lopes, Sir:Ralph Tesey, Hon. T. Drumlanrig, Vis. Lowther, Colonel Villiers, Viscount Duckworth, Sir J. Lowther, Henry Villiers, F. W. Buncombe, A. Lygou, General Vyse, B. H. IL 11. Buncombe, 0. Mackenzie, W. F. Waddington, H. S. Duncuft, Jobn M`Naghten, Sir E. Walpole, Spencer Du Pre, C. G. Mahon, Viscount Walsh, Sir J. East, Sir:J. B. Mandeville, Viscount Wellesley, Lord C. Edwards, Henry Manners, Lord.G. Williams, T. P. Egerton, Sir P. March, Earl of Worcester, Marquis Egerton, W. T. Masterman, J. Emlyn, Viscount 3launsell, T. P. =mi. Estcourt, J. B. B. Maxwell, J. I'. Beresford, William Euston, Earl Meux, Sir Henry Inglis, Sir R. BURKE'S PEERAGE AND BARONETAGE.—The new edition of this celebrated work has just made its appear ance. The mass of information it supplies relative to the titled orders, and their wide spreading connexion, is truly remarkable. Every descendant of a noble fa mily, however remotely allied, is here recorded, as well as every intermarriage uniting the Nobility with the Gentry of the country, and every historical fact that can throw light on our ancient aristocracy. As a book of reference affording the most authentic information regarding all members of the higher classes of society, Burke's Peerage and Baronetage must ever prove most acceptable. The present edition possesses several new and important features, and is, as usual, improved by a careful revision, and re-engraving of many of the armo rial illustrations. A curious list is given of all those Peers who inherit the high distinction of quartering the Royal Plantagenet Arms; a Summary of " Peerage Claims," follows the history of the existing Nobles, and a full account of Foreign Noblemen, who are British born subjects, is added. THE LONDON AND NORTH-WESTERN RAILWAY. —Tho excellent condition of this great company's per manent way and rolling stock, and the increase in the traffic receipts, will enable the directors to declare, atthe next half-yearly meeting, a dividend after the rate of 7 per cent. per annum, and carry a large balance to the credit of the following—viz., the best half year's receipts. We are thoroughly satisfied that the managers of the London and North- Western Company's traffic) can and will, in the course of the next two or three years, save one hundred thousand pounds sterling per annum in the working expenses of the railway.—Morning I'aper. LIEUTENANT' GENERAL SIR JASPER NICOLLS, KCB.—This distinguished general officer who died on Friday at his seat near Reading, entered the army as an ensign in the 45th Foot, in the year 1793. He served under Lord Lake in the Muhratta war, and was present at the battle of Argaum and at the siege and storming of Gawilghur. In 1805 Major Nicolls joined Lord Cath cart's army in Hanover; in the following year he pro ceeded with the expedition under General Craufurd to South America, and commanded a column at the assault on Buenos Ayres, in July, 1807. In 1808 he embarked for Spain, and commanded a battalion of the 14th Foot at the battle of Corunna in January, 1809, for which services he received the medal; soon afterwards Lieut.- Colonel Nicolls accompanied the expedition to Wal cheren. He subsequently served many years in the East Indies, w and i e h d u n r o i n n q g u etrheed the N e p p a r u n l s w n ;l e r of he lin c m om s ;n in ded Ap t r h il e . I f B o r l c s e . He afterwards commanded a brigade in the Pindarree war. At the siegdeeoftlibehu2rdtpinortne,ntirnylB_ Q division, 5,1 a which jor- d General Nicolls comma carried the left breach on the 18 t h of January, l;‘ ,11 6.1'0r this eminent service he was the same year nominated a K.C.B. In 1833 Sir Jasper Nicolls becam e Colonel of the 93d Foot; in 1840 he was removed to the colonelcy of the 38th Foot, and in 1843 to that of the sth Fusiliers, which is thus vacated. The late Sir Jasper Nicolls was also Commander-in-Chief in the East Indies from 1839 to 1643. ILLNESS OF THE ARCHBISHOP OF YORK. —We understand that the Archbishop of York has been so ill as to be confined to his bed during the last few days. We are happy to state, however, that his Grace is now rk covering from his serious indisposition.—Yorkshire Gazette of Saturday. SOUTHAMPTON, MONDAY, 11 O'OLOCK P.M.—The Peninsular and Oriental Steam Navigation Company's ship Pacha, Captain Weeks, has jest arrived here from Malta, and Gibraltar. The Pacha sailed from the Thames about five weeks since, with a large cargo of warlike stores, comprising iron guns of heavy calibre, shot, shells, small arms, muskets, small arms, muskets, hall-cartridges, gunpowder, and other munitions of war, hich have been lauded at various points on the coast of Sicily, on account of the insurgent Government. The Pacha cleared out 13Jth from London and Gibraltar os tensibly for Genoa, but after calling at the latter port proceeded on her secret mission to the island of Sicily. The Euxine arrived at Malta, from Constantinople,-0tr.... the night of the 26th ult., and will, perhaps, reach here to-morrow. Her Majesty's ship Hibernia sailed from Malta on the 26th ult., for England, and the Odin sailed the same night for Palermo. Tho Queen, 110, left Gibraltar for Devonport .on the 30th of April, and the Apollo troop-ship sailed for England on the Ist of May. NEw RAILWAY BILLS.—It is the intention of the House of Lords to pas a resolution to the effect that no railway Bill for construction. extension, or amalgams tion, shall be read a third time before the 18th of May.