The Sun. — London, England, 1820-06-27 00:00:00

inresti;:ation, becattte She 'knew lienelf to be guiltless, anti their Lordships to be just, • and on this ground she felt that their Lordships were incapable of refusing the prayer of the Petition. His Majesty had thought proper to call the imme dtate attention of thr House, and had communicated for a secret perusal papers in a sealed bag,said to relate to part of. the conduct of her Majesty while rekiding abroad. Whattsort of a case was meant to be founded on those—what tools they were who lent t Isemsef ves to the work of collecting the sin formation—the supposed odious matter contained, in , thr . bag,, by whom or through whose agency that collection S made, it was not for hi►n to_ conjecture or expatiate upon : it was enough for him to know that whatever was in the Bag only referred to sometbing . ihme or falsely' alleged to be done by bet Majesty while abroad- , -to know that what was alleged con!d have only'happened while her Majesty was abroad,: and even beyond the Alps; at such a distance from the tribunal•by which she was to be tried, it was physically in►- possib"e to obtain . the attendance of,the witnesses neees saiy for her Majesty's defence: Fer the purpose of pro. curing these she asked but fur a little period, only five or six weeks, the shortest interval possible for the purpose. --L It was not fur: the ordinary r . urpuse of delay the interval was solicited, her conscious innocence precluded the necessity, of all SUCK cptisideratintis; but the more vile the calumnies, the more base the collectors of the matter which wax sent over here, the snore necessary it was for her ,Majesty to hare her w•ituesses and evidence, in order to rebut, to confound u those witnesses, to oCerwhelm them. nit(' the irresistible power of troth and intiocenee ! He 'Allen proceeded ; and contrasted the general mural character of foreign witnesses, when put in competition with English evidence, and pointed out the facility with which those of the former description way be bribed, ,persuaded, or coerced to hold " lauguagp different from that of truth "on such an occasion, as con siderations of the tiisadvaniage ‘‘hich his Illustrious Client . would,. he said, bait: to contend with in such re spects; neither had her Majesty the advantages conferred by power or patronage, or those processes for compelling the attendance of witnesses which she would enjoy if the un fotinded charges were attempted to be borne out by native evidence, lie again adverted to the disadvantakes of the distance whence those witnesses were to lie brought ; but meagre all these fearful odds against her, the pride and buoyant spirit of consciops innocence would support her against every thing. With respect to the description and character of the witnesses to be brought forward some time would be necessary for acquii ing a - I;ciowledge, as from what be had already learned of the characters of some, he was a little anxious to know something of the others, and the disad- aiitag,es which would result from the circonistauces of those witnesses Were not 3 little. Were they all natives how com paratively easy would be his task : of those of whom he had some means of learning any thing, one individual was charged with stealing 404 Napoleons; whereas, in those which would he brought forward in the defence, there was no Italian Spy, no German Baron, but on the contrary, an OlAcer %,,ho had bled in,the service of his Country. 'He had, therefore, to put it not only to the common sense of feeling, but to the justice of the House, if the required interval was either unreasonable or unjust ? ‘Vere it not for such uoavoid- able disadvantages as those, they would not ask for thy delay of t %Ingle hour in the commencement of the proceedings He expatiated on the great disadvantages which would,resutt from any partial reports .upon the case going fbrth, before her Majesty bad the opportunity of offering defensive evi dence; and he again argued that the short required delay in the first instance would eventually save time, by precluding the necessity of any ulterior delay, and by enabling the In- vestigation to. go on regularly from its columencement.to its termination. Mr. DENMAN then proceeded to - address their Lordships. He observed, that after the very able speech which they had hea!rd Irons his Learned Friend, he should, perhaps, hest consult the interests of their Illustrious Client by abstaioneg (runs troubling their Lordships on the subject. However, be felt it necessary to make one observation, as it had fallen. to him to bring down the Petition which had that day been received from her Majesty. He had thought it not at variance with the forms of that House for the Noble and Learned Lord to he'the medium of introducing that Petition; and as be was not aware that he was likely to refuse from any per sonal motives, he had applied to him in the first instance, not apprehending, that inn a proceeding of this kind, any dif ficulty could arise any where.—However, the Petition had boon received; but he might observe, that as all the subjects of the realm bad a right to have their petitions presented to that House, it was not for him to search out difficulties, but fur those who felt them to explain their nature to their Lord ships. These things were passed, and their Lordships had now to - tuin their attention to the more serious part of the business; and here the principal difficulty be bad to contend with, was the anomaly of those proceedings which had now commenced. He might say be was contending with Shadows and clouds, for he could not see where the next step would lead them, or what would he their mode of pro ceeding. He might venture to say, that however high the authority to which those proceedings owed their commence ment, he was not able to' pronounce that they would not yet take the form of an impeachment, that might, for all be at" present knew, be the mode eventually pursued. Or if a less awful forin was gie'en to the investigation. it might he carried on to a Bill of pains and penalties, sending the offender to exile, to suffering, and to death. If, then, their Lordships should proceed by other means than those already adopted, bow could it he that fifteen of their number, who would have been prejudiced by the contents of that portentous bag, should sit in judgment upon her Majesty's life ? How was it possible that the must honourable mind could divest itself of all influence involuntarily acquired from evidence of the most malignant description ? for such he was led to be lieve was the character of the evidence in the Bag, Malig nity had volunteered its testimony when supposed to he ac ceptable in a certain quarter; and how probable it was, when there was such a demand or supposed demand, for evi• deuce, it would be supplied promptly, especially from the quarter where this unfortunate individual had resided. How probable it was that some person, influenced by ass interested malignity— " Some husy,iind insinuating rogue, " asonsetetkilig, cozening slave, to get some office, " Hath i devised this slander"— might cum,, eedieVard to assert and Substantiate charges of the blackest : description. He might proceed to show to their Lordships, that no delay would be suffered in their proceed ings, by allowing the time fur which his Learned Friend had applied, liecni.se in all cases before the tribunals of this countr, all the witnesses must be present, in order that the it evidence might he sifted hy cross-examination. It was possible that suborned witnesses might be produced on both sides, but thera Was danger or dirficuity of that in the course Which they had entreated their Lordships to adopt. When be looked around hint and taw the number of distinguished individuals before whom be had to appear, and recollected into what feeble hands, as far as he was concerned, her Majesty's case Was entrusted, he felt himself called upon to make au appeal in behalf of his illustrioug client, in the language of Lotd WacOn, who said that " A Judge ought to prepare his way to a, just sentence, `as God usethto prepare his way, by raising rallies, and taking down hills : so when there appeareth on either side an high hand, violent prosecution, cunning advantages taken; com bination, power, great counsel, then is the virtue of a Judge seen to make inequality equal, that he may plant his jUdg , meat as upon an even ground."• Mr. Viiit.tams (also Counsel for her Majesty) was proceeding to address the House, when the Loin ,CHANcELLoR 'interrupted him, stiving to their, Lordships that he believed it was not custo mary for more than two Counsel to be heard in support of a Petition. His Lordship then put t h e question ~and being decided in the negative, the Counsel withdrew. Lord LIVERPOOL put off the meeting of the Se cret Committee till Wednesday, to give their Lordships time to consider the desire other Md• jeSI y'S Petition. Lord GRLY gave notice, that if the Noble Lord (Liverpool) persisted in proceeding by a Secret Committee, he should to-morrow state his.reasons fur propming.a diffvrent course of proceeding.' . The Lords were summoned fop to-morrow, and the House adjourned at S o'clock. tIOUSE OF COMMONS. ()11 the motion of Mr. Clifity RN, tile Anti-Me- Company's Bill was read a second lithe , and ordered to be conitnitted.—Tlie Lidn Bid was read a thitti time and r-ised. Tl4Fultled Debt Charge Bill was also read a third ticni and passed. Mr. LUSHINGTON brought iip.the Reports of. the Coal inittees ' th e , L.ticry Bill', the Exclreyner Bills - Bill, and the Greenland Fishery Bill—which Bills were ordered to be read a third time to-toorrow. Mr. BIRCH moved for an account of the gnantities of Fiench Lace imported into this country during the years 1817, 1818, and Isl 9, and up-.to the Stit of the present mouth. ISLE OF MAN. On the motion of Mr LUSHINGTON, the House went into a Committee on the Isle of Man Trade Acts, when Mr. LUSHINGTON stated his object in requiring the House to go into the Committee, to be for the purpose of proposing some Resolutions to the effect of making due pro vision for the 'abolition of certain fees ; and of extending to the Isle of Man the sante regulations with respect to the im pottation of coals as belonged to this country. A series of Resolutions were then proposed for the abolition ef. the stamp duty of 20s. on the carriage of coals to the Isle of Man, and placing the additional duties of Is. per gallon on rum, Is. 6d. per cwt. on sugar, - and ts. per cwt. o❑ tobacco. Mr. CUR WEN asl;ed, if any part of this was intended to go to the increase of the grant already made to that Island, and of the iniprovident bargain already entered into ? Mr. lUSHINfiTON replied, that that bargai❑ was al ready completed.---The Resolutions were then agreed to. The Mines Property Bill was read a third time and passed. CRIMINAL LAWS. Sir J. MACKINTOSH rose for the purpose of shortly stat ing his intention to postpone the further progress of some of the BIM he had introduced into Parliament in amendment of the Penal Code of this Country. In consequence of a eon versation'which he had with the Law Officers of the Crown, he was aware of their intention to oppose three of these Bills ; and in the preneitt state of public business, and when the •••iinl of every Member was occupied so deeply in the consi deration of one unfortunate question, he should think it ill becoming hint to press forward those Bilis which Were so im pot tant to the country. He entertained a reasonable hope that there would be time in. the course of the present Session to terminate the subject, but for the present he should only move the second of those Bills on which he did not antici pate opposition.' " The Limitation of FOrgeries Bill," "the Repeal of the Statute Act relative to Larceny," and " the Navigable• Rivers' Robbery Bill," were the three on which he ex rested opposition.. The other three he hoped his Learn ed Friend the Attorney-General would allow to pass their second readings, leaving the discussion on them to take place in the Corumiltee, on the bringing up of the Report. The Bills intitled " Privately Stealiac in Shops' Bill," " Capital Felimies Commutation of Punishment Bill," and " Capital Felonies Repeal Bill," were then read a second tine, and ordered to go through a Committee of the whole House oa Friday next. TLIF, KING'S MEWS. Mr. M. A. TAYLOR wished to make an inquiry, with a view to the acconnondasion of the public, relative to the shut ting up of the King's Mews at Charing-cross. His object was to learn whether it was to be understood that that passage was permanently closed, and that another would b e opened as a substitute. Although •it had nut been a thoroughfare for carriages, its shutting up was a source of great inconveni ence to many persona. Mr. LUSHINGTON said, he was sorry that from the know ledge he possessed, he would not be able to give an answer to his Honourable Friend. He suggested, howe‘er, that the thoroughfare hail existed from indulgence only. Mr. M. A. TAYLOR said, he serer assinned that it was a "right—be merely stated that the loss - of it was an incon venience. . The House having resolved itself into a Committee of Ways and Ilcans, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved a Reso lution for raising a sum of 1,500;0001. by means of Trea sury Bilis, for the service of Ireland. 'Pie Resolution was agrEed to. THE QUEEN. Lord CASTLEREAGH rO6C in order to address the ►louse on the subject of the asljot►rned debate on the King's Message, which stood on the orders of the day fcr consideration that night. He must at the outset state, that its consideration of the situation in which the House then stood, after the efforts to attain conciliation—after the efforts which bad been made, and which, however little hopes they might have entertained as to its termi nation, the Government had entered into it with the utmost cordiality; it must now be considered that every exertion of . Government and of Par liament was exhaus'ed, and that they could only look at this painful subject as one which must, for the ends of justice, be carried on with as little delay as possible. Any thing 'which he should have to submit to the House that night would be founded on the impression he had just communi cated. Before he stated to the House the course lie intended to propose should be pursued, l►e would present very shortly to their attention wh a t had been the course of proceedings up to the pre sent moment, and was now the precise and actual position in which the question was placed, and in which the House !heti stood. He begged to re cal the recollection of the 1-louse to the moment when Government declared it would be their duty, in the event of the Queen's tetutning to this country; at which time they had framed a pro ceeding in the course which they conceived would be most consonant with Parliamentary principle anti justice. It at that time Government had a dopted the course suggested by the other side of the House, no responsibility of tiny kind would attach to them ; but Government were always ready 10 take a full share of responsibility on themselves where the case required it ; and if ti►ey rejected the advice tendered them on that occasion, it was because the course tecomn!endeti - was not founded on the soundest principles Of Par • liamentary practice. For, ahhough_ Government would not have shrunk from instituting any pro ceeding on the foundation of the charges brought against her Majesty; supported by such evidence as they were, yet they did feel that Parliament would not be satisfied to adopt a measure of so grave a nature, and against such an thirstrious Personage. without being fully satisfied in their oWn minus that there was prima facie evidence in support of the charge. These, he contended, were the most justifiable grounds on which Government had acted in framing the original course proposed to be-pursued. But the case had siece then un dergone an important alteration. On the first night of the consideration of the subject, Parlia ment had consented to an adjournment avowedly for the object of making an effort to avert the ne cessity of any hostile measures. It was perfectly true, that, in the earliest stages of the business her Majesty had been advised to protest against any secret inquiry, aml accordingly she did, in her first communication tO the House, desire that no preliminary investigation might he allowed to' rake place. In a later communication her Ma jesty had renewed that appeal, iar more peremptory and solemn terms ; she hail renewed it in the terms of an injured Queen; and therefore, in offering to substitute a proceeding of a more di rect character, he did not. anticipate any oppo si'ion on the part of her Majesty's supporters: The 11;mse would recollect, that on the first night of the discussion on this question, the ad journment was not proposed in order to see what shape the proceeding to be adopted should take ; but (Or the purpose of entering into a negociation, in the hopes of averting alto toe her"the necessity of taking any steps on the - papers then before them. Without at:emoting • 'to cast obloquy on any party, he must ssy that he did feel that there were certain strong grounds for adapting the course then taken• tier Pelajesty had intimated her readiness to yield her judgment op to the guidance of Pailiament: From the eommencement of the negociation, too, it bad • been understood that the moment ' her Majesty was restored to her dignity 89 Queen, she should consider any Other arrangement as of secondary consequence ; anal in effect, that sine qua non hav ing been granted, two intermediate persons had been appointed, to whom were intrusted all \ other matters of interest, patronage, or income. 'After such indications, he should have thought that her Majesty - would yield herself to the anxious wishes of Parliament. Yet in a most authorita tive aone she had rejected what had never before been done by any part of the same 111astrious Family which - now filled the Throne of this country.—(Hear, hear !)—Our history might be searched without finding a case wherein this, or any other family, had ever been found to treat the request, so tendered, of that House.—(Hear,hear, hear !)—lle did not state this . in a tone 'of re proach, hut the Houie could not but feel chagrin ed to have their counsel rejected when they ad diessed the Crown on a question deeply involving the interests or the country, of a nature so serious and sacred. On such au occasion would the House not have desired to know who was the Minister who had dared to advi3c the. Crown against the recommendations, and in the very face of the House ?_(hear, bear !) 7 --Bat it was one of the many excellencies of the Constitution under which we lived, that what ooMinister would dare to advise, . an individual might - with impunity venture Rradopt. That, MO:tricots hi dividual might repent the step whiCh hart been taken. It certainly was a mast serious appeal as ever was made to any Member of the House of Brunswick ; and atter that, be apprehended all.tbat remained for them to do was, to see what course of proceeding was best calculated to put tine matter in a train of judicial investigation, now that they had done all they coold to avoid that alternative.—(Hear, hear !)—Now, there -fore, that the case was fairly established on its present altered state, it became his Majesty's Ministers to make some alteration in the mode to be pursued respecting it ; and if Parliament could consent to receive a direct proposition ft OM them, containing a definite statement of what . the charges against the • Queen are, and the evi dence on which they are supported, he thought that was tine course it was imperative on them to pursue, and one which would he most consonant with her Majesty's view of her own situation.— He would now endeavour to explain what that course of proceeding was which he thought would .probably be best liked by the Queen.- With re ference to that part of her 111,jesty's Answer in which she expressed her apprehensions of excit ing the resentment of the House, because her Majesty had denied herself to an apelication which no Brunswick before had ever done, he trusted the course they should decide upon adopt ing would be such as would convince that Illus trious Personage that their object was nothing but to pursue tine ends of justice.—(Hear, hear, hear !)--lf, therefore, the House would' permit of the matter's originating with himself, he was prepared to say that-be had in view to bring for- • ward a motion on a -future day, which would be founded on the Queen's answer to the late Address of that House. He was sure the. House would. not wish him to go into a detail of the s t ature of the motion, but be would state that it would have this distinct character, it would put her Majesty, , the House, and the Country in possession of the whole of the evidence contained in the Papers on the table relative to this matter.—(Hear!)—lf the House should please, after hearing his, motion, to go, on to institute any proceedings in the case, without entering into a preliminary, intotiry, it would have also that characteristic so veheruent• ly demanded, viz.—it would be opens in itself.— (Hear, hear !)—lf afterwards a prima facie case should be made out, and it should he thought proper to follow it op by evidence, that of course would be brought for Ward. He must so far re• vent to what had passed on this subject, as to state that the matter was at present involved in Considerable awkwardness. Nothing could be more embarrassing than a judicial inquiry.— (Cries from the Opposition.)—He , would not °Ow look at the prima facie cause u but he con.-' tended, and he bad time authority of Black stone for saying so, that nothing was more difli-,. "cult iti . itself, and nothin g was m ore a b s urd 'th a n to require that two judicial inviries on. the same 1 subject, should be Carried on at the sante time Ifl the two Houses of Parliament. It both the Como minces should, - as he could not for a moment doubt they would, decide that there were sufficient grounds for instituting and arranging sent iota. , cial proceedings, he entreated the House to con sider' of the difficulty that would exist as to vialiere the proceedings should originate. NOW. he hoped the House would not think that be •: undervalued .the capabilities of thet House ill cases of judicial proceedings ; but it appeared fa him that if they had determined that 'there was cause for judicial proceedings, then they would have waited to see what was the nature of the proceedings adopted by the other House; and if that proceeding were within the reach of their, judicial functions, they would'in all erobabilitar follow it up. ;That was the view which Govern ment had _been induced to direct their proceed. , logs upon, viz. that if the [louse of Lords took the matter tip judicially, that House would mew! . sarily wait. He wished it, therefore, to be nn derstood, that it was necessary to name some daf for his motion, sufficiently distant to give to she whet House, before that day should 4rri ,, e, the possibility of having framed some proceeding 0 3 this very important and grave accusation ; and which, at the same time, should not be at a period I too late tor the purposes of justice. In conse quence of this impression, be should name Thurs day•se'noight as. the day. on which be would be prepared to offer a motion to the House, found ed on the answer of her Majesty to the 'Address , of that House.. He bad no hesitation in saying. that he should desist froin making that .motion, if the House of Lot:ds should have, in its' judicial character, instituted any thing which must, in due course, come down to that House. tior after waiting that reasonable length of tune, he did feel that, after all that bad passed, alter the tact had been so broadly avowed, that the parero on the table contained matters of charge so grave agnitfit her Majesty, even if the Lords did n ot institute any proceedidga, he considered th a t he owed it tb her Majesty; and he trusted the House would allow him to put the charges ,in such ta shape that tier Majesty may be able to defend her own character.—(Hear, hear, heat l)—He ha 4 nothing farther to state, but that -he was reatlY to charge himself with the Whole responsibility of originating this measure. -He allowed that tic House ought to feel a degree of jealousy in fear ing it in the power of any Mioisterof the Cro'iva to .bring against ber;Majesty - such grave chargefs entirely of himself ; but the House would see that it was .relieved from ally feelings ot that kind, by the appeal of the Qaeen to adopt the very course lie wits proposing to them. Afiet that appeal he conceived himself called upon .as A ' Member of Parliament to take 'the steps t he was proposing. With, respect to the consideration of the King's Message, the substance of which was• that they sh - ouhl inquire what manner whO the best for entering' into an investigation of the : , papers on the table, be should propose to brine forward his motion .on Thursday senniebt meaning to debate die Fling's Message on Friday se'nnight, the following day. The effect of tit; arrangement would be, that if the House of Lords took the matter tip, he should not Bring his moii ' 0 forward; but if, tailing the Home of Lord's, he brought his motion tor wat il, and thee should accet' L it, then the debate of the next-day would fall to are ground. If aaain,. as he confessed lie did not fore' see was likely, rite House should negistiee Ilia mu' tion, then it would leave the matter in-:he precise - state it then was. He had heard it insinioatoi abroad, Chat fnUn the Mottoes in which Pailiaroco t had approached her Majesty,.the entire busine o must he ipso facto drooped - altogether. (Hear.)-' The construction conetruction which it Right Honourabl e 'Gentleman had been pleased to place upon rite vote of time House the other night, viz.-e-Int' t any inquiry most,be '`.derogatory ro the digui:l of the Crown, and ohnoXions to the - ,best low' rests of the Country," had helped to give rice t° this - notion ; but he did think that ttoihiog cold, be further from the notions of the Hon. Mover 0 ' 'that Address, as to its ultimate effect than t hit-'" he could not conceive .how it was possible t° torture any of his Hon. Friend's words to bea t such a meaning. For his Hon. Friend had es"' pressly stated that the adoption of his mot was the last alternative between inquiry and 1-e , ' conciliation. He never did mean to propoen e such a proposition as that imputed to him. li r sincerely unveil however that they should 1 1 0 no more of these quibbling arguntents.—(Hea r ; from 'the Opposition.)—He trusted, alter havi? . 5 clone all that could he done to avert this calamity' the Parliament of this Country would return I': its ancient character for dignity and moderati ° ?. •—(Hear,• hear !) ; and that in the course of 11 ' g painful examination,. the House of Comnici:, would exhibit itself in its proper attitude, %ci t e out any of that angry feeling;, which how'-" much it might belong to politics, ought to find.n ej • place in this subject. (Hear.) These, he assig,,- the House, were the feelings on which he gronor e ed the motion, which he begged to give n otice. u e would bring forward, if in the _mean time - n 0 I l ie t dicial proceedings -were instituted •by the 1' i .. 0 „ House. He took - the entire responsibility 0 0 b" self, but he died not intend to emharrass th e m nt with any differeot course of proceeding, if ti r ) other were adopted by the other House. Ile a a l s Mr. BROUGHAM Silld, he concurred • frnra _ b ig bot tom ot his heart in the appeal winch the ro . of Lord had itist mace; and in impl7 - iring all s ide the House, from that moment heneeforth,thr ° 1 0 the whole course of the now iaevitable ioquirY_stio let the voice of party cease—(hear to stale! fer a, factious, personal, or political teeliogs to ini" tbet in the prosecution, of this question; in onleril to' no shadow 'night be said to cross their no; .00 ..) wards the etc ainment of substatiliai jusi ice. (" 5 ,he On the part of bier. Majesty he had to expre s s re infinite satisfaction, which he knew to be ( f lin o t fleeted image of her sentiments, On 6" „ lo in° . length that there was some chatsee of her on find , nig justice on constitutional principles — " 0151 roe ing that there wat an end of that dinky ii ) q, l o filf fiat, unconstitutiool, unjust; anti, he taro: " icy of illegal proceediug, which it was the tet o , c e to ut; the Green Brig, accompanying theMetW,,,4ears the Throne; to institute ag“inst tv•r• a k ,l .-- tic eil • .hear !)—Her china Irons the begionitig I n } _ .. .„i05 . g. for an open inquiry--her *test had bee n r o b ot to an invisible tribunal. lie had, howeve r/ ~n L (1] tlit td , t; Pla I t bN~ i~~ '~r ~ lt ~ ~~1.~