The Sun. — London, England, 1842-04-19 00:00:00

• IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, April 18. -.The LORD CHANCELLOIL took his seat on the Wooslack sliortly before Five o'clock. FACTORY INSPECTION. The Earl of RIPON laid on the table the last flalf-yetrly Report of the Inspectors of Factories. RATING OF STOCK IN TRADE. Lord PORTMAN — ;vis1;;(1 to inquire of the Noble Duke opposite . (Wellington), whether it was the in tention of her llia.iesty's Government to renew the Bill now in force relating to the rating of stock in trade to parochial assessment ? The present Bill would soon expire, and there was considerable anxiety to know whethee it was intended to make a permanent enactment on the subject. The Duke of WELLINGTON said, it Has the intention of his Right Hon. Friend at the head of the Government, to in trodtice in the other House a temporary Act to continue the present law, for the purpose of giving time for farming a per manent measure. IRISH SPIRIT DUTIES. ------- _ The Duke of WELLINGTON postponed to Thursday next the - third reading of' the Irish Spirit Duties Bill, which stood fixed fur this day. MIN-LAWS—THE TARIi.T. - • The Duke of BUCKINGHAM presented numerous peti tions from places in the counties of Kent, Warwick, and Fur far,•against the proposed alteration of the Corn-laws. Several petitions to the same dreet were presented by the Duke of RUTLAND and Earl STA N HOPE. The Earl of ZETLAND presented petitions from Selkirk and other places in Scotland, against the sliding scale, and for the total repeal of the Corn-laws. Earl FITZ WILLIAM presented a petition from the shoe makers and leather-dressers of Ring's Lynn against the reduc tion of the duty tar foreign boots, shoes, and curried leather; also petitions from Guisborough, Leeds, Huddersfield, and other places in the county of York, against the income tax and all Corn-laws. _ Lord BROUGHAINI presented petitions from Arbroath, in the county of Forfar, and from St. Mary's, Newington, in the borough of Lambeth, against the Income-tax ; and a petition fr m the farmers of Northumberland, against all Corn-laws. The House %vent into Committee, and the Indemnity Bill passed through.—The House then resumed. CORN IMPORTATION BILL. The Earl of RIPON rose and said, although the matter to which their Lordships' attention was about to be called, had be come, from not unfrequent discussions, familiar to their Lord ship!, and though the Bill, the seemed reading of which he was about to recommend to their Lordships' attention did not proceed on any new principle, but was rather a modification of the existing law, nevertheless, he felt that he should not adequately discaarge the duty which evolved upon him, if, before proceeding to explain to their Lordships, the provisions of that Bill, and the reasons which had induced her Majesty's Government to propose it for the adoption of Parliament, he did not make some observations of a more general nature with respect to this question. He felt this question to be, and he always had felt it to be, infinitely the. most important subject with which the Legislature could be called upon to deal. It related to a subject in which were involved the prosperity, the contentment, and the safety of the State ; for the question really was the subsistence, the food of the people ; and what was the best mode by which that essen tial object could be secured, and by which there could be obtained for the public at large an adequate, •a steady supply, of the first necessaries of life, at a reasonable and mode rate. rate. There were, he knew, many other most important interests connected with this subject—the interests of agricul ture, the interests of commerce, the interests of manufactures, of the capitalists engaged in one or other branch of industry, and of those by whose labours those capitalists were enabled to receive the advantage from the expenditure of that capital. He knew that those interests were most important in the consider ation of this question ; but still it appeared to him that the esss nee of this question was, by what means of legislation the people could be best supplied. In the point of view in which he looked at the question it was one of the most paramount, but at the same time one of the most difficult, that could come before them. Great authorities differed as to the mode in which that object could be obtained ; men of the most extensive iteormatione of the wisest experience, of the most unquestionable probity and independe n ce, had diff ere d fundamentally as to the mode in which the Legis lature ouslit to promote that object. But it unfor tunitely happened that from the nature of the case, it was so mixed up with strong feelings, and with an eager sense of interest. on tee part of those whose interests, philosophically speaking, were identified—but of what identification it was impcosible to impress the parties themselves— that it was scarcely possible to discuss the question without. giving rise to feeliegs which rendered a satisfactory discussion impossible. It Was, therefo:e, their duty to discuss the question calmly ; and he hoped their Lordships would call him to a sense of his duty if he departed from that spirit. There were two gre t antagonist principles involved in the question—one was, that all restriction upon the importation of foreign corn should be removed ; the other was, that importation should be regulated by the Legislature. The first proposition was on the face of it extremely plansible—it was a kind, considerate, and charitable proposition, and there seemed something gratifying in being told that if the supply in their own country was short, the whole world was open to them to make good that supply. But he confessed he felt that the more he lookd at the state of those countries from ,whence those supplies could be obtained, the more ho was convinced that the proposition was fallacious in itself; and was likely to lead to disappoint ment. if that principle was adopted, they would be compelled to look to other countries for supply, not when they wanted it on certain occasions, but as a principle, and he thought he wou'd he able to show that they would incur the greatest risk ant danger in adopting it. It was perfectly obvious that, in a country like this, where from a thousand considerations not necessary to detail, the cost of production was higher, and must be higher for almost any ar ticle as compared with other countries where the causes did not exist, it was, quite clear that this great increase in the amount of produce" in this country, which had enabled tie to stand so well against the deu.a.tols of the increasing population, eould never have taken place unless the capital invested in agriculture were encouraged by adequate rernunera' ion to continua in the same line of employment. Ap plying this principle, then, to the protection of corn, it was clear that if you deiermined to admit at al tirseas, and under all circumstances, foreign corn without ref . ..mice to prices, or to the harvest at home, a great deal of the capital now in. vested in the raising of food must be withdrawn, for the prise being reduced be:ow the remunerating point, the British farmer must seek other fields for his money and in genuity, much land would be thrown out of cultivation, and the amount of the home supply of corn would be very greatly diminished—whether it would be the higher quality or the lower quality of soils that would be thrown out of cultivation, he would not now stop to inquire, for each result had been predicted. The fact that our produce would be very greatly diminished, and our lands thrown out of cultivation to a very considerable extent, through the inunda tion of foreign corn, could not be denied, and that was osough for his arguments. We already depended on foreign countries for; occasional supplies. The question was, whether we should also depend for the much greater and continual supplies which, under a change of the sys tem, would be imperatively necessary. Let it be sup posed that our own produce be reduced 10 per cent. Now where were we to look for those great supplies in addition to what we already got from foreign countries? The late information laid before Parliament sleeved that the only countries we could look to were the small territories of Denmark and Mecklen burg. We could not rely on any other country in Europe. It was stated distinctly, drat notwithstanding the encourae'e ment that might be given by the rep e al o f th e C orn -l aws , the utmost amount upon which they could calculate would be 2,220,600 quarters of wheat. But if they looked to the paper which he held in Ins hand, they would find that from Palermo, to which a large item was assigned, none at all was exported into this country. Warsaw was men tioned twice in the same paper. The utmost, then, that they could expect to obtain would not exceed 1,500,000 quarters annually. During the last thirteen years the total amount imported into this country for consumption had been at the rate of one miltion quarters per annum ; but if we re duced our own produce two millions and a half more we would have no source in Europe from which to derive a suffi cient supply. They were told that Russia could not extend its production. He knew that there were defects in the list to which he referred, but that (lid not change his ar gument. His of ject was to show that the hopes of one party were exaggerated, and could not be realised; but at the same time he admitted that the fears of the other party were also exaggerated. He wished to dwell on this part of the subject, because he thought that the abolition of the protective scale of ditties would not give the permanent and abundant supply of corn that was proposed. From Russia, they were told in the document to which he had referred, they could not derive greater supplies than they did at present, and yet Ilus , ia was one of the greatest exporting countries in Europe. It was asked in that document whether, if there was an increased demand for foreign corn in England, the corn produced in some of the districts could without much difficulty, and in a short time, be increased ? The answer was, No. The same qu stion and reply was given respecting Riga and Odessa. It would be impos sible then to rely upon Russia in cases of deficiency. Russia could, indeed, send enough into this country to interfere with mate rially, and prejudice out agricultural producers; but that was a very different thing from sending a great quantity sufficient to supply the great demand of such a country as this. A much smaller qu entity might do a great mischief in discou eagmg agriculture, although a large quantity, if required in consequence of that discouragement, could not be obtained: At Dantzic there would be - , no increase. At Kcsnigsberg, none. 'At Stettin, none. At Memel, there might be an increase of one-fourth. The quantity at present was :e9OO quarters ; and an increase of one-fourth upon that Would nut go far to fill up the deficiency that would be occasioned by a diminution of the home production. At Elsinore, from which the whole of the produce of the Danish dominions was exported, there, would he an increase. But if their Lord ships would examine the whole of the papers, they would find that the increase would amount to - nothing at all towards supplying the deficiency. At Hamburgh 'it was doubtful whether or not there would be an Increase. But as that port was supplied chiefly from the Prussian domi nions, of which he had already stated from the report, it would be unnecessary' to go over the same ground again. There was no doubt that in the course of years there might be an increase by the application of additional capital, which however would prevent the exportation of the produce at a cheap price. He must advert to Russia, from which, undoubtedly, the greatest quantity would be derived. But Russia her seise although she at times exported considerable quan tities, Set, at other times, suffered grievously from famine. During the last nine years there were six years of i bad harvest, amounting in some years to positive famine, so much so, that the Emperor found it necessary to suspend the duty on the importation of foreign corn, which was 13s. 4tl. per quarter on wheat, and Bs. og . rye. All the other States cf Europe, with the exception of Denmark and Prussia, unposed duties on imported corn, and yet it was said that in this country it was an unchristian shame 10 impose a tax u pon food which prevented our manufacturers fro cetneting with foreigners. But although Pius:ia, which e as p an exportin g count ry , L a d no t.lx on the ins of foreign sore, yet there was a tax ore corn in the towns containing a Population of two millions, of which th e price of bread was rendered dearer at times .than i n E..gland," as was actually the case in Danizic at this moment. Much had been said of the rent h g alo nexhaustible supply w h ic h might be deriv e d. But even in Philad e lphia, which had been the greatest m ar k et since 1793, the price of bread has frequently been highe r than in London ; awl if they added to that the necessary charge for bringing it to this country, they would find that in no less titan 12 out of the 2e- years, the price there would be higher than here.—('the Noble Lord here referred to seine papers published in ice United States to prove that the consumption in that coun try always equalled, and had equaled f,c the last 50 years, the production. ) This would go to show that from the United States we could not expect those great supplies that those who were In favour of no restriction on corn lead them to expect ; and any idea of supplying any deficiency from thence would lead to disappointment. If this were true, the system would go towards destroying existing contracts in this country, and it would be incurring a risk which it would be little short of insanity to attempt. The inference that we must draw then was, that it was much wiser and safer to rely essentially upon our own produce; and to ensure that reliance, their ought to give protection to that pi educe.— (Hear.) Then came the question. tt What should be the I nature and extent of that protection?" It was ebvious that protection could only effieiently be given by some duty, either • fixed or fluctuating. lie would not now enter into a compa rison between those two anodes of protection, as that question would be fully raised when the Noble Lord's amendment should come on. He would proceed now to discuss the remaining part of the subject, which was the principle of protection by a fluctuating duty and then to explain to their Lordships the nature of the Bill. With respect to this duty, which fluctuated in an inverse ratio to the price, whatever objection might be made to it—whatever defects might be observed in the existing law, and however desirable it might be to modify the application of it by a new law, he could not see anything inconsistent with equity and justice—if they were to have protection at • all—in adjusting it so that when it was no longer necessary for the protection of the pro ducer, it should diminish so as to give the benefit of it to the consumer. It was just in principle. It was not an ad valorem duty. The only question, therefore, was, whether they could so apply the principle as to prevent those inconveniences and evils to which it may have beep liable. They had thirty years experience of the principle, it was said, and its total failure had been proved; but tie (Lord Ripon) did not see that. He did not say that it had cot defects, but ,the principle was good which regulated the admission of foreign corn; he•thought the principle of the law had worked according to the views of those who enacted the law. He might be asked why he cent, then, to alter the law, but he did so because the subject was one to which the attention of Parliament must be called from time to time. The interests of commerce were mighty, and required the intervention of 'Parliament when necessary. The extent of protection necessary at one time might not be necessary at another. 'the population of the country was in creased by 2,0(10,00(1, who required to be fed, and though the productions of agriculture had increased also, they did not in crease in the same ratio. It was therefore clear that the cir cumstances of the country had altered already, and it was necessary that the wisdom of Parliament should interpose— (" Hear, hear," from the Opposition)—and not allow itself to be taken by surprise. It was then supposed that this country would receive large progressive supplies of wheat from Ire land—but this had not turned out to be the case. During the first six of the last thirteen years, the average supply from Ireland was 658,000 quarters, a quantity nearly equal to one third of the largest import of foreign corn we had had in am one year; but during the last seven years this quantity fell off to 427,000 quarters. This was a very material fact. The cause was, first, that notwithstanding the high prices this coun try offered, the growth of wheat was not found to be so profit able in Ireland as the growth of other articles ; and next, that the people of Ireland consumed a great deal of their own wheat —a most gratifying change from that miserable food on which they used heretofore to drag oe (Ilear, hear ) The people of England had but lately abandoned barley and rye bread for wheat exclusively. A similar satisfactory process was now going on in Ireland.--(Hear, hear.) This was a most important fact, however, for the people of England. It must be admitted, too, that the present Corn-law had some defects which required to be corrected. —( Hear, hear. ) One of the defects of this Bill was, as it struck him—one which no doubt some of his Noble Friends would think one of its beauties — namely, that the protection was extravagantly high. What could be the advantage of a protection that was greater than necessary ? it would but injure the principle of protection itself; and if they would attempt to maintain such a protec tion, they would go far to destroy the principle itself. He had reason to know that the general feeling of the country was, that the present rate of protection was higher than necessary. It was a defect which it was fit to remedy, and to remedy it was one of the objects of the present Bill. There was an other detail of the present measure that was objectionable— namely, the rapidity with which the duty varies. Their Lord ships alight recollect, that in the year 1827 a Bill was pro posed, in which the principle of a graduated scale was introduced. That Bill had not passed into a law ; it was unnecessary to state the reasons why it had not passed ? but their Lordships would remember that the fluctuation was not by any means so rapid according to that Bill, as according to the law as it now stood. He (the Earl of Ripon) had the honeur of proposing that Bill in their Lordships' House. It was opposed by some Noble Lords, but the House generally acquiesced in its principles, and in most of its details. The following year the present law was proposed; which was tie scribed as a jumping scale, and consequently defective, be cause when the prices were rising, the difference between the several amounts of duties became so great, it gave a temptation to holders of corn to wait till the duty became low. Notwithstanding the rising of the price indicated the want of corn by the community, they were tempted to wait until they could bring out their corn at a duty of Is. instead of 103. That was a considerable defect in the existing law, and which the present measure would correct. In other articles, such as rye, oats, and barley, there was not the same jumping. With respect to taking of the averages there were some objections; but those objections were overstated, and the present pro posal would, he trusted, also remove that defect The average would be taken by a different class of per sons from the present, and greater security would thus be occasioned in the transaction of basiness. In his opinion the extension of the number of towns for taking the averages would be a great improvement, as it would ire crease the difficulty of fraud, which was attempted only in great markets, where a great quantity was returned, and the average could be materially affected by an artificial addition to the prices. The question had frequently been put to him as to what was likely to he the effect of taking the prices in these towns in raising or lowering the averages ? and his invariable answer had been, that it would have no sensible effect whatever, unless it could be supposed that the quantity and prices in' those new towns were immensely li'gher or immensely lower than in the old towns. If the 4 ffect of taking them in would be to raise the price by ss. a quarter, it must be plain that, to bring that about, the prices in the new towns must exceed them in the old by 10s. a quarter. That was a state of things that could not be well supposed exist ; indeed, it was generally admitted that no such result could be produced, and that there would be a much more exact amount of the prices of corn throughout the kingdom, without introducing any principle than could be objected to. Perhaps he had trespassed too long upon their Lordships in these pre liminary observations, but he had not thought that he should discharge his duty if he had not laid before them those views which he thought must be taken into the consideration of the measure which he was about to propose. The proposition itself was, that instead of a duty increasing to any amount, not defined, the highest duty on the importation ()I wheat should be 20, , and that duty should be imposed when the average prices should be under 51, . It was then proposed that the duty should diminish Is. forever , / Is. increase in the price, with two exceptions, in the c..urse of the scale ; that was to say, when it arrived at 525. and was under 555., the duty should he the same, 18s., for each. After that, it diminished shilling by shilling, till the pt ice rose to 665.; and then again it remained as at 52 5 . It was a difficult thing to say what was to be consi dered a remunerating price.—( Laughter from the Opposition.) Ile was not aware of any better means that there were of as certaining what that point was than the information which was laid within every body's reach, compared with what had been the average price for the last 13 years. That had been something more than 585., anti therefore he thought that something be tween 565. and 585., or 605., might fairly be considered as that which should be thought reasonable, and which, in his (Lord Ripon's) opinion, was necessary for the maintenance of agri culture in this country. He believed that the proposition re lating to wheat was held to be a fair arrangement, and had not met with great complaints from either party. With respect to barley and oats, however, some diference of opinion had arisen. The principle on which they had endeavoured to act in fixing the duty on barley and oats, was to adhere as nearly as possible to the principle of the existing scale. When wheat was at 50s. the duty was 11., and when barley was at 253. the duty was I ls., being rather more than half the duty on wheat. The same principle was pursued with regard to the rest, which occurred when the price was 275. arid under 305., when the duty was fixed at 9s. Some persons thought that barley with the present duty was to enter into a ruinous competition with foreign barley, but he confessed he saw no grounds for such apprehension. From the paper which was laid before Parliament in July last, and which was a summary of the answer received from her Majesty's Consuls, it ap peared that the average price at which barley could be pur chased abroad was 19s. 6Aci., and by adding the amount of freight and other charges, which could not be lest than 4s. or 55., the total amount of the price of barley would be from 245. to 255. ; so that it was clear that the protection given by the Dill was sufficient up to anything short of the point, and lie confessed that he hardly heard any reason to induce li m to think that that was a protection inadequate for its legitimate purpose. It was less than the protection gi7en to barley at present; but the whole Bill proceeded upon the principle of the diminution of price, and therefore lie dad not see how any person disposed to admit that a reduction ought to take place could make use of the reduction on barley as any argument. In the Bill of 1827, though the protection by that Bill was higher when prices were low at that particular point, the differ ence was not very material as compared with the scale now pro posed. The Bill proposed that at the price of 31s. to 325., the dutyishould be Bs. 6d. ; the present 8.11 proposed 7s. 6d., but he could not see how the difference of eighteenpence should jus tify the apprehensions that had been expressed in the country. No country of Europe t tiered us large supplies of barley but Denmark. But the power of Increasing her supplies to us was very limited, for her own population was increasing, as was also that of the other countries she supplied. We should also forget that the increased demand for the barley of Denmark, or of any other country, would greatly raise the pricea in their own markets.—( Hear, hear.) Looking at other countries, he found that the barley of the north of Germany was not very good, while the nature of the soil would prevent in a great degree an improvement of the quality. In the poorer soils of Prussia they coul.l not produce good malting barley, if at all, without an expensive process of improving the land. In the south of Germany, in Bavaria anti Wirtemburg, the growth of barley was considerable, but the great quantity of beer drunk by the population required it all. Moreover, there was an export duty on barley leaving Bavaria; and the cost of the voyage down the Neckar, through Holland, and thence hither, and the apprehensions of our farmers would vanish. In like manner the apprehensions of the vast influx of foreign oats were groundless. We could not expect an average supply of more than t 300,000 qrs. from abroad, whilst the consumption of this country was 15,0i10,000 quarters. A protection equal to 235. a quarter ought not to be complained of. Having made these statements to their Lordships, it only remained for him to express his confident hope and belief that this measure would work beneficially for all classes of the community.' Thi. was the sole object of the framers of the measure. If they were guilty of deceiving the people, on this or any other sub ject, they would commit at the same time as great a political iniquity, and as a contemptible a piece of folly, as any Minis try could be accused of, for the people of this country were too quick-sighted and intelligent to be deceived. While they kept a strict eye on the proceedings of the Legislature, they were able to judge of their principles, arguments, and plans. They relied with confidence on the hod e, that the proposed measure ivould be received by their Lordships as a satisfactory adjust ment of the question ; and though some on the other side might dissent from it, yet he believed that the public generally would think that her Majesty's Government had done their duty in proposing this measure, and lie trusted that Parlia ment would do their duty, by giving effect to it in the shape of a law. Earl STANHOPE would not enter into the general ques tion of free trade in corn. It was impossible for him, how ever, not to advert briefly to some eircumstaaces connested with the history of the question. It was somewhat singular that those who originally recommended the present 'swami. e, and who, after having bestowed great attention upon the subject, had stated that that measure was most unexception able in its mode of operation, should how come forward and declare that. a very considerable decrease in the protection conferred by that law ought to be effected. '1 he sliding scale was no part or parcel of the principle of the Corti-law. It was only one of the modes—it might be the best or not—of executing that principle, which principle was protection to the agriculturist. It was therefore obvious, that a sliding scale might be so contrived, as to be equally pernicious with a low timed duty. It had been stated by a Noble Lord opposite ( Viscount Melbourne, as we understood), that the removal of the protection given by the Corn-laws to the agriculturist could riot be effected without causing much ill-blood and dis turbing society to its foundation. He (Earl Stanhope) be lieved that it could not be effected without overthrowing the whole fabric and structure of society. The Noble Viscount departed afterwards from those opinions, and when an appeal teas made t o t h e country, a majority far more tr i ump h ant than the most sanguine Conservative expected, declared itself in fa vour of British agriculture.—(Cheers front the Opposition.) He proposed to show that they were strongly attached to the agricultural interest. At the elections the Conservative can -dictates fought sander th e b anners of " Protection to Agricul tuee.' —(Opposition cheers.) Did the Noble Lords opposite deny his statement?—Cries of " No, no," and renewed cheer ing end laughter.) Promises and pledges were given in pro- Z Fusion, and with the most grave solemnity to support the pro section as it was.—( Cheers.) In the course of the elections the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Govern sent, in addressing his constituents at Tamworth, said that he deprecated a struggle in this question of the Corn .laws, be cause he believed, w th Lord Melbourne, that the advantages sould not be equal to the risk, and he asked for their free suffrages on that frank and.expliett declaration."—( Cheet s. ) Frank and explicit !—(Laughter.) Why, he never read a sentence less explicit in his life.--( Cheers and a laugh.) What was the advantage to which the Right Hon. Baronet alluded? If it was the advantage of altering or amending the present laws, then his intention was utterly inconsistent with all his known and recorded opinions.—( Opposition cheers.) What was the risk which the Right Hon Baronet apprehended. with an immense and overwhelming majority in both Houses of Par liament, ready to support the interests of British agriculture ? ft would have been convenient if the Right Hon. Baronet had been a little more frank on the occasion ; he need not have told his constituents whether there were to be one rest, or two rests, or three rests, bat he might have hinted that the effect of this Bill would be to cause a considerable decrease of protection, and that the impartation of cattle would be per ted. The effect of that would have been that the Right Hon. :;aronet would have been save-1 much time, expense. arid rouble, and his colleagues, and himself would have been spared he anxiety and trouble of office.—( Hear, hear.) He t Earl tanhopel was not surprised at this. because he saw very plainly, !nag before the cl se. of the last. Parliament. indications that there vt ere to be considerable alterations in this law. Earl RIPON —Just now you said there were not. Earl STANHOPE said, tliat he said there was no expressed determination. He was not surprised, he repeated; but the -exult had been that, instead of allaying the popular clamour, every possible excitement had been ad . ed to it. Great distrust and discontent had been excited amongst the agriculturists ; and the Minister who proposed this plan had lost, and for ever, the confidence of the great majority of the agriculturists, who might still, however, continue to support him either through feelings of respect, or for a desire to exclude the opposition from power.—(Loud cheers and laughter.) He would consign them to the castigation they wuld receive front those whose interests they had betrayed.---( Hear, hear.) He would now proceed to the consideration of the question before them. It was obvious that every Corn-law must proceed on the consideration and comparison of the prices at which corn could be imported into this country, and at which it could be grown in it. It had been mowed that no satisfactory informa tion bad been obtained on the subject, but that information could be obtained by means of a Parliamentary inquiry, and 'mai such had been obtained, no measure on the subject ought to be introduced. There was a singular misapprehension in regard to the price at which corn could he produced abroad. It was supposed that because the seasons of late years had been unusually unfavourable, and the price, high on the Conti nent, as well as in this country, that those prices were to be taken as the ordinary price of the country. As far as he was aware, there was no inquiry since the year 1827. According to the return of the Consuls then, the average price in 182.5, in the North of Europe, in Copenhagen, Bremen, Ham burgh, Rotterdan:, and Antwerp, was eighteen shillings and sevenpence ; and in the year 18fl6 he presented a petition from the Agricultural Society of Holdernesse, which stated that good wheat in bond was sold at Hull at 245. a quarter, In the year 1836 it was stated, by an eminent corn-factor, that he purchased fine wheat for 265. or 285., and that corresponded with the opinion very recently given by two corn-factors of Liverpool, who stated that the effect of a present Corn-law, after one or two favourable seasons, would be to reduce the average prise to 48s. or 465. He could refer to a letter, written on the 26th of May, by one whom the Noble Lord would admit to be an authority, to the effect that corn had been imported into Liverpool, and other ports, and freely entered, and that, • having paid a duty of 225. a quarter, it had left a fair profit to the speculator. Now this Bill proposed to reduce that duty to is., and yet he was told it would do no injury to the agricul turist. With such a price it would be impossible to maintain a orice of 565. for wheat, nor perhaps even 50s. He could show that, in a part of Buckinghamshire, anti not the worst part, the rent alone could not be paid out of a less price than 50s. He would not say, that whatever might be the effect of the present Bill, the land would be thrown out of.cul tivation ; but he did say that the effect would be to break the existing frame of society, the destruction of public and private Tedit, and, in the end, national bankruptcy. His Noble Friend (Earl Ripon) had said that the present protection was extravagantly high, and might without inconvenience be dimi nished. His Noble Friend had not adduced even a shadow of proof in support of that assertion. In the year 1828, when the present law was passed, it would be proper to argue that a lower rate of proteetion than that given by the law of 1815 was wanted, because at the former period that most destructive end pernicious of measures, known as Peel's Bill, came into operation. The late Mr. Ricardo had said that after that mea sure the fall in the price of corn would be three or five per cent. ; but the fall was now thirty or fifty per cent., and could ho (Earl Stanhope) have foreseen 'such would be the case, no power on earth could have induced him to support the measure. No Corn-laws could raise the price of corn while there was a currency that kept it low. In the years 1834-5-6, the prices of corn were 395. 6d. and 445. Bd., which no man in his senses could suppose was a remunerating price. TheNobleEarl (Ripon) said that a free trace in corn would be a very good thing if it was practicable. Now he Would say to the Noble Lord in the language of Holy Writ, "Out of thine own mouth will I con demn thee."—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) In the beginning of the Session in 1825—(and he wished that this Session and every other since had eommeneett with such auspices)—the Noble Earl advised his late Majesty George the Fourth to congratulate the House on the unexampled prosperity and happiness of all classes of the people of this empire.— ( Cries of " Hear, hear.") But in that year, and in the one preceding, the price of corn had been 625. a quarter. The statute of Charles 11., passed professedly for the protection of agriculture, enacted, that when the price of wheat was 555., the duty should be 16s. 6d. ; and the duty by the present law, and for the last century, was 17s. ; and now, notwithstanding the enormous unparalleled distress which prevailed, the duty was only Ws. 6d. per quarter. He would ask Noble Lords to give a frank answer to this question, " It hether, under the ope ration of this law, they did or did not expect a large or small importation ; and whether they expected a large or small re duction of price?" In either case he was ready to argue with them. I! they expected a small importation, a small reduction of price, where was the benefit to the consumer? If they ex pected a large importation, which might be very profitable to the revenue, and acceptable in that depressed state in which it now was, had they considered at all the etl',,et which must neces sarily be produced, not only on agriculture, but on all branches of productive industry, all of whom had one common interest in preventing the competition of foreigners in the home market? If much corn were importec4a great quantity of specie would leave this country, and in favour of this view he had the evidence of those who were in favour of free trade in corn, who considered it as " a consummation most devoutly to be wi.hed for," that money must be used in great quantities for the purchase (Scorn. The effect of this exportation of specie would be that the Bank of England would stop payment. It was true that the supplies of wheat from Ireland had been diminished, but what we had lost in corn we had gained in cattle from that country. The farmers were advised to accept this Bill on the principle that half a loaf was better than no bread. But who would say that the present measure would be final? Why, the Secretary for the Home Department himself had assured the public that this was not to be considered as a final measure.—( Hear, hear.) Then he (Lord Stanhope) would not agree now to a commuta tion of the sentence on the farmers.—( Laughtest ) He would say, " No surrender," in common with a Noble Duke, who, when patriotism and devotion to the public service were almost ex tinct in this country—( Laughter )—showed an eminent example of both, by abandoning power and place when they were crip pling the influence he knew ought to be exerted forthe benefit of the community. Offer free trade in manufactures, and those who cried out for free trade in corn, would soon be scattered to the winds and annihilated. The farmers must not be sacrificed. It mattered not to him whether he was to have a Whig or a Tory Executive.—( Laughter.) It had been truly said that it mattered not to the farmer whether he were put out of the world by an axe or a guillotine. In like manner the Noble Earl cared not whether the instruments were to be a vli ling scale or a fixed duty.—(Great laughter.) If the present head of the Government were in opposition, he might be able to do what he did before—to stop the influence of bad measures ; but he was grieved to see that nothing but mis chievous measures had been proposed—the Corn-law, the new tariff, and the Income-tax, which he would oppose. The people were silent, but he might say dam silent clamant. He might say, and he was speaking not unadvisedly, that the si lence proceeded from the conviction that they were only at " the beginning of the end," to use the words of Talleyrand ; the signs of the times were written in such large and legible characters, that " those who run may read." He begged to warn their Lordships of the inevitable consequences that must ensue from the system pursued by Tory, NVhig, and Conser vative Governments. The "end" was not far distant, and would be accelerated by the measures which the Government proposed. He entreated their Lordships to consider, even at the twelfth hour, whether, if their Lordships were condemned as " the tree bearing bad fruit," they might not be " cut shown, and cast into the fire"—whether, if their duty consisted in registering edicts, the Acts of the Commonwealth may not be renewed—be voted useless and abolished. The first French Revolution would afford but a faint outline of the proscriptions and couds cations that would take place. Seeking for himself no favour from any Government, he thought it right to warn them, and he would move that the word " now" be omitted, and that the Bill be read that day six months. Lord HARDWI6KE felt himself inadequate to do justice to the subject before the House, and he would address their Lord. ships but for the purpose of justifying the vote which he should give to-night upon the question. He was not one of those who supported the measure merely because he feared that if he did not do so they would tend to overthrow the present Government. He certainly should deplore such an occurrence as the restora tion to power of the Noble Lords opposite, as he had understood not merely from themselves, but from their supporters in de mocracy, that they were unable to cenKluct the Government of the country in the manner in which they most wished. The Noble Lord who had just sat down had stated his intention of adhering, in his address to the House, to the question before their Lordships ; but, instead of doing so, the Noble Lord had travelled out of his way to assail the Right Hon. Gentle tlernan the Prime Minister of the country, having accused that distinguished individual of deceiving the people of this country upon the present question. Earl STANHOPE explained that he had not intended to make what was called an attack on the Right lion. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's . Government. However, his (Earl Stanhope's) observations might have been interpreted both ways.—( Laughter.) That Right lion. Gentleman had given reason for the belief that he was a zealous supporter of the Corn-laws, and he (Earl Stanhope) would leave it to his Noble Friend to say whether he was a zealous supporter of them or not. The Earl of HARDWICKE defended Sir R. Peel from the charge of deception, and said that for his own part he would not support the measure if he were not perfectly convinced that it would have no effect in deteriorating agricultural pro dueo.—( Repeated cheers and laughter on the Opposition benches.) What ! would any man suppose that he would sup port the measure, if he thought it would have that effect ? ( Renewed cheers and laughter.) Their Lordships might re ject that Bill, but they could not prevent an alteration of the press nt law atter the decision of the House of Commons and the majority of the nation. Ile was sure that the change would not depreciate agriculture, because, although the rate had been changed twenty-six times since the year 1560, and the duty had varied from 2s. to 305., the average price in that long period was 51s. Id. The existing Bill protected the farmers amply. The Bill pro posed only took away the surplus protection, which could be of no use to them—(Laughter)—for they could still sell cheaper than the speculator importing from Dant ate, paying duty ,and also tir unloading, carting, and re-dressing. the protection for barley would be also sufficient. He would therefore support the Bill, because he believed it would give a fair protection to the agrteulturist; but he would oppose an Ss. fixed duty, be cause he believed it would not be testable in hard seasons. He considered the additional towns for taking the averages was a great improvement. With regard to the pith of the measure Ite said all he intended. With regard to the opinion out of doors, which had been alluded to by the Noble Earl, he (Lord Ilardwickc) would challenge him to prove them. No pro tection was given by the speech of the Noble Earl, and the present Government were so opposed to all class legislation, and so anxious to promote the general welfare of all, that the people of this country could not doubt that their best interests would be preserved. Ho believed the people of this country were honest and loyal enough to appreciate the value of the present Government, who set aside all class interests and looked alone to the general welfare of the people.—( Cheers. ) The Duke of BUCKINGHAM said he agreed with what had fallen from the Noble Ear! who commenced the deba:e, that this was the most important que:. tion which could come under the consideration of the House. lie was anxious thus early to state the course he meant to pursue, as no alterations could be made in Com mittee. The question was, whether the Bill was to be read now or this day six months. Ho confessed he looked en the Bill with deep feeling of alarm, and without attributing any motives, the Bill, in his judgment, is calculated to do harm to the agricultural interest. The progress which agriculture had made for the last hay years they must all be rejoiced to see; but if it appeared that by this Bill the farmer was not pro tected, the effect would be that our fields world go Lut of the high state of cultivation in which they had hitherto been up held by the system of Corn -laws. He must say, also, that he looked with alarm on this Bill, because it afforded an oppor tunity for the foreign farmer to compete with the farmers at home. In what state would this country be if the English farmer were compelled to give up his tillage ? The bright sun of this country's glory would be set. He was told that this Bill would not satisfy the Opposition, and he could say, on be half of a large portion of the agricultural interest, that it would not satisfy thern.—( Hear.) He felt that there was not suffi cient protection given to agriculture, and on this ground he should support the measure of his Noble Friend ( Earl Stan hope). He regretted some of the remarks which had been made by his Noble Friend, but he agreed with him that suffi c.ent protection was not given to the farmer. If they passed this Bill, it might be too late to retrace their steps, and, acting upon his feelings, a? the friend of the farmer, he could not but view this measure with the greatest alarm. His Noble Friend who had just sat down had attempted to prove that. this mea sure woa'd be beneficial alike to the farmer. and himself ; but how could that be, when under the present law (he foreign farmer could not come in under 68s. or 695., but by the lew law they could come in at 585.? Ile adhered to the opinions he had given and to the statements he had for merly made on this question, and he should now give his most cordial support to the proposition for reading this Bill again this day six months, because he believed it would be in jurious to the farmer, to the consumer, and crippling to the agriculturist. The Earl of. WINCHILSEA said he was prepared to contend that the frequent agitation which had taken place during the last three years in and out of Parliament had been productive of the greatest evils. On this question the great body of the labouring classes were quite unfit and unpre pared to give an opinion ; they were unable to grasp it in all its bearings, and to look with justice on this protection which the Legislature of this country had su wisely given to domestic agriculture. Those, however, who knew better, were aware of the evils of fluctuating prices, and would prevent them, as far as human means couid prevent them. 'I hese discussions had shaken the confidence of the great body of the agriculturists, and had i also stopped, in a gre a t d egree , th ose grea t improve ments n agriculture which were about to be carried on. He alluded more especially to the system of di airings) and manur ing. He was one who was prepared to state that, if during the next 15 years the same improvements should take 'place in agriculture as had taken place during the last 15 years, the in crease in the produce would equal the increase of the popula tion, and he believed that Great Britain, instead of being an importing, would be an exporting country. Unless this Bill were pass•ad, the land would not be able to bear the peculiar burdens which pressed upon it, such as maintaining the poor and preserving the peace. He agreed with the Noble Earl that a fixed duty was a perfect fallacy in the way of protection, for if wheat was very low, of what use would it be ; or if it rose to 585., 605., or ',Os., what Government would endeavour io en force it ? The Government • had now, in this measure, main tained the principle of the existing law, and the Hight lion. Gentleman had redeemed his pledge that he would maintain the principles of the existing Corn-law. Ile did nut apprehend that the agricultural interest, with respect to wheat, would re ceive any injury in the reduction of the scale of ditties.—( Hear, hear.) He ever viewed this question, not with reference to agricultural interest, but in reference to the general interests of the great mass of the labouring classes.—( Hear, hear.) He trusted that this measure would insure to the great body of the people bread at the lowest price they could afford fo give it. He was sorry that the Noble Lord had spoken so strongly with regard to Honourable Gentlemen in the other House, because he was sure whate%ste steps they hail taken were for the general welfare of manufactures, commerce, and agriculture. For these reasons he should give his support to the measure of her Majesty's Government, and he hoped it would be productive of those benefits which he believed would result froni them. Lord WESTERN said he had listened with great attention to the remarks which had fallen from the mover of the second reading of the Bill, who had so deprecated the fixed duty that it really almost became a question whether they should not be acting right in doing away with the fixed duty and the sliding scale too.—(clear.) If this Bill were to pass, pro tection would be taken away from the agriculturist, and the weight of this would fall upon the labouring (asses. For this reason he felt called upon to support the motion of the Noble Earl ( Starihope). The agriculturists thought the country were of opi ion that the present Government, when it came in, would. support the agricultural interest ; and though he would not say how that impression was occasioned, yet he would say there was a great disappointment felt, and he was one of those who had to complain of having been disappointed. The only occa sion on e. hieh he had withdrawn his :upport from his Noble Friend (Lord Melbourne) was when the Noble Viscount's Go vernment proposed a measure which he thought would be fatal to agricultui e. But he would not be deceived again. —( Cheers. ) Every Conservative gentleman t hrough out the counts y expected that the present Government would maintain the Corn-laws. The Government had lost the confidence of the country, and the people in the agricultural districts would rather have the Whigs and open ports.—( Hear, hear)—than have such a measure as the present carried into effect by the present Ministers. If it were not for the state of our monetary system, British agricul ture would be able to contend with all the countries in the world. But then the monetary system had prostrated the commerce and manufactures of the country, which were the real causes of the greatness of England.—(Cheers.) The violent contraction of the currency since 1837 was the cause of the present depression--( Hear, hear. ). In consequence of that contraction, there was not less than forty millions lost to the country. and the loss since that, in every year, was to be counted by tens of millions. —( Hear.) The blame lay with the management of the bank which contracted the currency and threw down prices for the purpose of keeping up the price of bank stock. He thmgl.t that the prosperity of commerce and manufacture was the best source of prosperity to agriculture. But this country never could prosper whilst the present mo. netary system was continued. He wished that subject could be brought before the House fairly, and be fully discussed. Ile would be happy if the present state of the country would allow the Legislature to satisfy the wishes of the people by throwing open the trade in corn, but it was impossible to do so without an amendment r.f the currency. Lord FITZGERALD said that any one who heard the forcible appeal of the Noble Lord on the depressed state of our commerce and manufactures, to which, as he justly said, the country owed its greatness, would suppose that he was certainly not going to vote for the motion of the Noble Earl (Earl Stanhope).—( Hear, hear, hear. ) The Noble Baron bad explained that the deception of which he complained the other night was not deception on the part of others, but misapprehension on his own. His (Lord Fitzge rald's) Noble Friends behind him did not separate themselves from the conduct of the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government. Had the principl e o f p ro t ec ti on b een abandoned?—(" Hear, hear,' from the Duke of W e lli ng ton.) , Would they not, before the close of the next twenty-four hours, agree that the protection was maintained too high ?—( Hear. ) Was it not known before the close of the last Session of Parlia ment, that it was intended to make a considerable alteration of the present lave ?—( Hear.) In the last Session of Parliament the Right Hen. Baronet was arraigned by the Member for the Tower Hamlets ( Sir W. Clay) with having said that he would not alter the figures of the scale in the schedule for the protection of corn. Sir Robert Peel on that occasion distinctly de clared that he was not pledged to maintain the scale with the same figures, but he would adhere to a liberal pro tection for agriculture. The Noble Lord then read other extracts from speeches of Sir R. Peel to the same effect. He (the Noble Lord) had not heard any argument against the Bill, except from those who wished to maintain the present law. All they said was, that it would adequately protect agri culture ; but this objection was already disposed of. He would not proceed further, nor should he have spoken so much, had it not been that he felt obliged to censure the language of tile Noble Earl against that man, than whom done had ever pos sessed in a greater degree the confidence of his Sovereign and his country, and who would be the last person in the commu nity to introduce a political measure for the party and per sonal objects most unjustly attributed to him by the Noble Earl.—( Hear, hear. ) Lord BEAUMONT opposed the Bill, and alluded to the meetings is Lincolnshire, Essex, and Berkshire, as a proof of the general feeling of the agriculturists against the measure. The Bill would show that the first act of the Government was to amputate the right arm of those who had raised them to power. He thought they could not compete with the cheap labour of the Continent, and would not be able to meet them in the market. Then, in case of a war, what would be the conse quence? They would be like an army without a commissariat if they depended on foreigners for their supply. He would, therefore, lay down the broad principle, that on this account they ought not to alter the law. They acted on this principle of not depending on foreigners in former times, and the con-. sequences were, that waste after waste was reclaimed, and a large part of the country was brought under cultivation. It was said that the manufactures of the country would be taken in exchange for corn, but the manufacturers themselves knew that the best customers they . had ...ere the agricultu rists. But was it a fact that other countries would take their manufactures? He thought there was no ground for coming to such a conclusion.' What was the fact ? There was Russia, who imported a great deal less from this country than they did from Russia. Would Prussia, or rather would the League, take their manufactures ? He thought not. Neither would France. No, she would not ; and, in fact, it was natural that that should be the case. The Noble Lord went on to argue that tho cause of the distress of the country was attri butable to the commercial operation of Joint-rock Banks and the increase of machinery, and concluded by saying, that taking the whole, or, as he might eall them, the bouquet of measures presented to them by the Covet nment, he considered them manly, straightforward, and impartial.—(Cheers.) Lord BROUGHAM said that he would not occupy much of their Lordships' time, but it was obvious that it was difficult for those Noble Lords who differed both from the Bill brought in by the Noble Lord, and the amendment proposed by the Noble Earl, 'to decide what course they were to adopt. The Noble Earl avowed his complete, entire, and uncompromising hostility to the measure ; and in what position was he (Lord Brougham) placed, who slid not altogether agree with either of the Noble Lords? Ile was reduced to the alternative of either wholly adopting the measure of the Noble Lord, or the amendmett of the Noble Earl. He considered the Bill proposed a considerable change in the right direction, and he approved of it, by comparison with the ex isting law. Ile considered it an improvement—he would not exaggerate—he did not consider it a great improvement, but yet a considerable on e , in the existing law, and he would tell their Lordships presently why he so considered it. Upon the whole, therefore, he was favourable to the existing law.—( Hear. ) But it did riot go tar enough, and he would, therefore, move, by way of amendment to the amendment of the Noble Earl, that which he considered to be the assertion of the right princie ple of legislation on the subject, namely, a total and absolute repeal of the Corn-law._( Hear, fleas.) He would now state how far the present Bill was an improvement on the existing law. He did not think, that bete eon the two ex' remss in the prices, the alteration was material. It did rot appear to him to he a matter of much consequence that the duty of 201. was substituted for the duty of 36a. ; and the reason was obvious, because, whatever the price of wheat WAS abroad, whether it was 455. 6d. or 405., besides the freight, the duty of 203. would be as effectual in excluding, foreign wheat as the present duty of 365. The effect was precisely the same if they took the highest price with the lowest duty, because the duty was the same. But the advantage of the proposed scale over the present was when the price was from 535. and 545. to tl4s. and 655. The Noble Lord then quoted the existing law, and went ors to show how the present proposed scale was superior to the existing one. For those reasons, he thought that there-vas e consider able improvement in the proposed measure as compared with the existing law. He was also ready to admit that the change had another advantage. To a certain degree the trafficking and jobbing in the averages would be less frequssnt, and that the temptations to such would be diminished, Upon the last of the material change. which the proposed measures would introduce, he was by no means certain that it, namely, the ad dition of 150 towns to those in which the ave ages were taken, would have the effect expected from it. He was very apprehensive that it would have a prejudicial effect, because, generally, those towns were in out-lying dis tricts, at a distance from the great internal corn marts. To carry corn from those districts to the corn marts yesuld impose an additional expense, and consequently the grain, thus car ried a distance, would sell higher in those central places. Ac- cordingly, if they added all those,l'eiii - ote places to the present number, the result, if grain was cheaper in the cut-lying dis tricts than in the central places, would be. that the lowering of the whole of the averages, two or three shillings more than they now are, Would be confined. as they were, to the central districts. The consequence of ail this would be, that the point of importation would be postponed. It would become more difficult, by thus lowering the averages, to get at the point at which our por's were opened. His Noble Friend opposite thought differently. It was possible that he (Lord Brougham) might be wrong. But some steps might he taken, some colla teral provision made, whereby, after the experiment consequent on the passing into law of the proposed measure, they might be enabled to ascertain the effect of adding the 150 towns ; and if his (Lord Brougham's) apprehensions were verified, they could then strike out those towns from the Act. For the reasons he had thus stated, he was strongly inclined to prefer the proposed measure to the present law. lie wished to see the trade in corn thrown entirely open. It would be the safest course for all interests concerned. Yet as the pro poied scheme was a modification of the evils of the present sys tem, he was prepai ett to support it. He should prefer sup porting the motion of his Noble Friend (Lord Melbourne). He did not concur with those who thought the proposed mea sure a final one; but it was preferable to the existing law, as Was a step on the right side. The best argument in favour of a filial measure on the subject was the great uncertainty which resulted from the present Corn-laws, and the unwillingness consequent upon it of capitalists to in vest their capital in dui purchase of land. In the island of Jersey or Guernsey, or some o' the Channel Islands, there was no, Corn-law. The average price of wheat, during 10 years in that island, was 51s. and some odd pence. During the same period the avorage price in this country, with a Corn-law, was ether 57s or isBs., a difference of about 14 or 15 per cent. The effect of throwing open the trade would cheapen the price of corn by about 2s. or 3s. per quarter, but not more. The opinion of a Noble Lord who was connected with the county of NOrthampton (Earl Spencer), and who bad given much attention to the subject, was, that the total repeal of. the Corn-laws would not have any effect in lowering the price of corn. Why, then, it might be asked, was it sought to have the Corn-laws repealed? For this reason—it would have a most beneficial effect on the agricultural interest of the country, by encouraging commerc. , and restoring manufacturing as well as trading prosperity. It was for that reason the repeal of the Corn laws was sought, and not for any material lowering of the price of corn which would result from it. No consider able increase would take place in the quantity of corn grown in any country, unless more land vrs brought into cultivation. and in a country perfectly civilised ; in such countries as the upper parts of the Ukraine, and the more remote parts of Russia, where the soil was covered with forest and heath, and where much skill and labour would bo expended before the land could be brought into cultivation—in such countries they would not bring more land into cultivation merely by creating a fixed duty, instead of one according to a sliding scale—not by throw* open their ports.—( Hear. ) He did not mean to say that their improving their com mercial intercourse would not be of great benefit to them. God forbid that they should not do so ; it would be of great benefit both to them and to us; but he did not believe dia• any great importation into this coun try would f.,110w. Their population would increase, their con dition would improve, and as their condition and circum stances improved, they would desire an improvement in their fare. If their Lordships wished any proof in support of this assertion lie would refer them to Ireland. In the ears from 1834 to 1/336 the quantity of wheat exported from Ireland to us was 761,05:0 quarters, and now that, quantity was reduced to 216,000 quarters, acid he attributed this entirely to the im proved condition of our Irish fellow-subjects. They had heard a painful reason assigned by a Noble Friend of his as to the cause of the present distress. He said it was not owing to the state of commerce or to agriculture, but to the state of the cur rency. Ile said this distress had existed since 1837, but only since 1837? 'fhe standard wag restored 20 years before that, and surely he did not suppose that the Bank of England had the power to issue ona note more than was actually required by commerce ; the moment the Bank over-issued, the note would be returned to them ; and they had in fact no more power of over-issuing than any private bank in the kingdom: Ilia Noble Friend said .there was not a sufficient issue of bank paper. Would his Noble Friend have an issue of assignats, such as took place dui ing the French revolution, when, as he had heard, 500,000 francs were paid for a pair of gloves ? He was sorry to say that he believed his Noble Friend did agree with those who were in favour of an unlimited issue of bank paper. He thought the total repeal of the Corn-laws was the only measure suited to the present exigencies of the country; if it were only that it would settle this question even, and for ever, he thought that would be a sufficient reason ; but that it would restore the state of commerce to its original healthy condition, and re establish the advantageous footing in which we have hitherto stood with foreign countries, he entertained no more doubt than he did upon the clearest proposition. He had heard the assertion made again to-night, that if the price of bread were ; low, wages would fall with it. Need he remind their Lordships of the fallsey of this statement? Be the price of provisions high or low, the wages of every man's ' labour must depend upon the amount which he has to bring into the market, and the demand which the employers may have for it. The more dicult it was to obtain food, the higher the price of food—the greater the quantity of labour which the working man must give for it. In America, where food was ! cheaper than in this country, in the proportion of 2s. to a dollar, I labour was dearer in the proportion of a dollar to 2s. Then it was answered, on the other side, that the lower rate of wages in this country was occasioned by over population. But did not that decide the question ? Was it not conclusive that the wages of labour depended on the proportion of the demand to the supply, and in nothing else'? Although he approved of this measure, as contrasted with the former state of the law, yet there was another measure which he preferred. He would support the amendment, if he could not carry a further amendment, which he would now propose—( Hear) — to the effect that all the words after the word " that" should be omitted for the purpose of inserting the following,— " No duty on the importation of foreign corn of any de scription " The Eirl of SHAFTESBURY said, that it was irregular to propose any amendment, which involved a general proposition, after an amendment. After a discuslion upon the point of order, in which Lord Kenyon, the Earl of Itiprn, and Lord Canterbury took part, Lord BROUGHAM said that he had looked to cases in which he found that it was the practice of both Houses of Par liament that the question trust be taken first upon the last amendment. Lord CANTERBURY said that the • usage of both Houses was, that it should first be put that the words proposed to be omitted should " stand part of the question."—( Hear. ) The LORD CHANCELLOR was then about to put, the question, when Earl FITZ WILLIAM was desirous to address a few words to the House before their Lordships divided. He did not ap prove of the pi% sent Bill, but it carried in itself the seeds of future amendment ; and it was also a most desirable successor, to enable us to get rid of the existing cumbersome law. Therefore he would vote for the second reading of the present Bill, and, on the whole, he felt grateful to the Ali • nistry that had ventured into the gap their predecessors had opened for them. This Bill was a step in advance towards a final settlement of the question, which was free trade in corn, which, though not a protective system, would yet benefit the revenue. Reserving to himself the right of future opposition, he would vote for the motion.—(Question ) Lord MELBOURNE could not approve of the principles or the provisions of the Bill, but he thought it to be a great im provement of the present law, an I therefore he should vote for the second reading. He regarded it as an introduction to a better measure, to be introduced hereafter. The House then divided on the original motion, and Earl Stanhope's amendment for the second reading that day six months. The numbers were— Contents Nan• Contents Majority against Lord Stanhope's amendment —lO2 The House a eecond time divided on the original motion, and Lord Brougham's amendment for the total repeal of the Corn. laws. The numbers were— Contents Non-contents 5 Majority for the second reading — 104 The Dill gas then read a second time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow. Their Lordships immediately after adjourned, at a Quarter past Twelve o'Clock.' HOUSE OF COMMONS, April 18. The SPEAKER took the Chair at a few minutes before Four o'Clock. LONGFORD ELECTION COMMITTEE. Lord ASHLEY brought up the :report of the Felect Com mittee appointed to try the petition against the late return of a Member to serve for the county of Longford in the pre•ent Parliament. It stated that Luko White, Esq., was not duly returned ; and that Antony Lefroy, Esq., was duly elected fur that borough. The Cljkt of the Crown was ordered to amend the return. CARDIGAN ELECTION COMMITTEE. Mr. IIA.II'ER brought up the Report of the Select Corn mittee, appoint( d to try the petition againet the late return of a Meniber to represent the borough of Cardigan. The Re port was to the effect, that Pryce Pryee, , Esq., was not duly elected to represent the. borough in the present Parliament, and that J. Harford had been duly elected, and ought to have been returned as a burgess to serve in the Parliament for the borough. The Clerk of the Crown was ordered to amend the return. IPSWICH ELECTION COMMITTEE. Mr. PAKINGTON stated that, as the Chairman of the Committee appointed to try the Ipswich Election petition, he had been directed by the Committee to report to the House that they had that day come to the following resolutions : " Re solved, that Obadiah Ltfcas has been wilfully guilty of giving false evidence in his examination before the Committee ; Re solved that the said Obadiah Lucas be committed to the custody of the Sergeant-at- Arms, to await the pleasure of the House." He ( Mr. Pakington) then moved, pursuant to the Report of the Committee, that Obadiah Lucas be, for the said offence, committed to her Majesty's gaol of Newgate, till the House may make a further order in his case, and that the Speaker should issue his warrant accordingly.—Agreed to. Mr. HARDY presented a petition from a place in the West Riding of Yorkshire against the New Po,r-law Act, and pray ing for a re-enactment of the old measure. Mr. BLACKSTONE presented a petition from a place in Kent against 'he New Corn Bill (as we understood), and that part of the tariff which related to the importation of foreign cattle. Sir ROBERT BA TESON presented a petition from a place in the county of Derry, against the system of National Education in Ireland. Lord DALMENY presented a petition from Stirling against the Income-tax proposed by the Government. Mr. W. PATTEN presented a petition from Manchester, against the tariff. - Mr. JOHNSTONE presented a petition from tho boot and shoe makers of Gla•gow, against the importation of foreign boots and shoes. Mr. WAKLEY presented a similar petition from Not tingham. COLLEGE OF MAYNOOTH. Sir It. INGLIS presented a petition from a place in Glou cestershire, against the grant to Marmot/. College. INCOME TAX. Mr. SH ARM AN CRA W FORD presented a petition from the inhabitants of Littleborough, parish of Rochdale, and its vicinity. These petitioners state that they have patiently en dured the effects of class legislation ; that they consider it a violation of the principles of the Constitution to enhance the price of bread without increasing wages; that they view the income tax as tinju,t in principle, and a tax upon producers, and therefore pray your House to reject the measure. A similar petition was presented by Mr. WA KLEY from St. Austle, in Cornwall. Air. BECKETT presented a petition, signed by fibs ot eitors of Leeds, praying for relief from the certificate duty as it was equivalent to an income tax. Mr: COL VILI.I , _: presented a similar petition from Derby. Mr BA GG E presented a petition against the importation of foreign cattle. Mr. \VAKLEY presented a petition from Mr. John Bell Brown, a surgeon, of Brighton, against the Brighton Small Debts B►ll. The lloN. MEMBER presented a petition from Mr. Stock dale, praying that declarations may in all cases be subst►tuted fur oaths. I%lr. MACK INNON presented ,a petition from an individual, whose name did not reach U 3, praying that the heating and ventilating the House of Commons might he given tnlitatt, as he would do it at a cheaper rate than it is at present done. Lord F. EGERTON presented a petition, signed by 1E3,000 persons, complaining of the - operation of the Poor-law Amend;. ment Act generally, and the Bastardy Clause in particular; also a petition from Bolton, signed by 6,000 persons, stating their entire approval of the financial scheme proposed by the Government, and deprecating any unnecessary delay in passing it into a law. ALVIINISTRATION OF JUSTICE IN IRELAND_ Air. O'CONNELL fresented a petition from an English gentleman, Sir Charles Wolsey, complaining of the conduct of those who prosecuted for the Crown at the last Assizes in the North of Ireland, in their selecting none but Protestants, and setting aside all the Catholics who were. caled on Juries for tha trial of Cat.hol.c prisoners, and praying the House to institute an inquiry into the matter; also a pe tition to the same effect, from Armagh, most numerously signed by persons of the highest resrctability, among whom was the most Reverend Dr. Croly, the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Armagh. The Right Honourable and Learned Gentleman observed that the petition from Sir Charles Wobey had that g.ntleman's name written at the top, in his own handwriting, instead of at the bottom of the peti tion. It was not, be believed, therefore, perfectly regular, according to the rules of the House, but it would be so in point of law. The SPEAKER stated that the petition referred to was not regular, and could not, therefore, be received. Mr. O'CONNELL subsequently gave notice that on to morrow he would move that the other petition on the same subject which he had presented be printed with the votes. INCOME TAY. Mr. 'HUTT presen'ed a petition against the income tax. Sir JOHN HANNIER presented a similar petition from the corporation of Huh. Captain BERNAL presented a petition from Wycombe aga'nst the income tax. Mr. BARNARD presented two similar petitions. Mr. CRAIG presented a petition from the Edinburgh Chamber of Commerce with a similar tray cc. THE 'I ARIFF. Mr. FRENCH presented a petition from Athlone, in Ire land, against the proposed tariff. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE presented petitions from the shoe makers of Windsor, Southampton, Portsmouth, &c., against the reduction of the duty on foreign boots and shoes. CORN-LAWS. The Hoti. MEMBER then presented a petition from Wilts, against the Corn and yrovision-laws. NATIONAL EDUCATION (IRELAND). Mr. Sergeant JACKSON presented several petitions from Kilmarnock and other places in Ireland, aga list the present system of National Education, and in favour of the system pursued by the Church Education Society. RAILWAY BILLS. An How. MEMBER. presented two petitions from Chipping Sodbury, praying for the insertion of a clause il,to all Railway hills, making it incumbent on the Railway Companies to main tain their own poor. Mr. SYDNEY HERBERT brought up certain papers, which were laid on the table. Sir T. FREMANTLE presented a petition from the in habitants of Rye, in favour of the financial plans of her Ma jesty's government. Lord ELIOT brought up papers, which vicre laid on the table of the Hou.ie. • SUPREME COURT OF SCOTLAND. Sir JAMES GRAHAM—Seeing the Hon. Member for Greenock in his place, he (the Right lion. Gent.) had to in. form him with regret that iilness prevented the Lord • Advocate from attending the House, and would, probably for soiree days. He therefore hoped tha lion. Member for Greenock would consent to postpone his motion respecting the'Supreme Court of Scotland from to morrow until the Learned Lord should be able to attend. Air. WALLACE regretted the illness of the Lord-Adeo• cate, and therefore, and also out of 'respect to the House he (Mr. Wallace) would postpone his motion until Thursday the 28th instant. ARNAUT TROOPS. Dr. BOWRING gave notice that to• morrow he would put a question to the Rig!it Honourable Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government, asking whether the Right Honourable Baronet had" . received any communication from our Ambassador at Constan tinople respecting the intention of the Turkish Government to send Arnaut irregular troops into Syria ; those troops being the same class of men who in 1841 were removed from that country at the solicitation of the represnttatives of the Allied Powers, in consequence of the atrocities they had committ,d on the Christian population. Mr. Sergeant JACKSON gave notice that 'to-morrow he would move for leave to bring in a Bill to aassimilate the law in Ireland as regards the punishment of death to the law in England, and to abolish the punishment in certain cases. Leave of absence was granted to Mr. Hopkins on account of ill health. DRAINAGE BILL. Mr. F. MA ULE wished to put a qu.!stion to the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary of State for the Home Depart ment with respect to the Drainage Bill. The Right Hen. Baronet must be aware that there were two Bills under the consideration of the Committee up stairs. He was anxious to know from the Right Hon. Baronet %then he woitid be able to introduce the Drainage Bill into that House? Sir J. GRAHAM could not, at present, name any particu lar day, but he begged to assure the Right Hon. Gentleman that the Bill was in a forward state of preparation. EXPORT DUTY ON COALS. Mr. ORD wished to know whether coals taken on board foreign shifts for the ship's use merely, would be subjected to the duty it tended to be imposed upon the exportation of coals? Sir ROBERT PEEL said that he could not at present give an answer to the question. It was a subject requiring very grave consideration. THE TARIFF. Mr. HUTT wished to ask the Right Hon. Baronet whether, after the second reading of the Income-tax Bill, he would pro ceed with the consideration of the tariff, or whether he in tended to postpone the consideration of the tariff until all questions relating to the supply of the year should be disposed of. Sir R. PEEL said that the statement he had made was, that he wished to be certain that the Income-tax Bill would be adopted by the Howe before he proceeded with the considera tion of the tariff. It was of great importance that the House should decide upon the question of the Income-tax, as, if it sanctioned the principle, there would be many ebdails to be settled as to the mode of collection. Ile hoped-, however, that the discussion in Committee would not be xery protracted, but he could not bring forward the tariff until he tslt. pretty well assured that the Income-tax would pass. When that should he the case, he would be perfectly willing to pro ceed with the tariff. He was as well aware as any Hon. Member could be of the importance of taking the tariff into early consideration, and he trusted that the House would consider that measure as a whole, whenevei it sl ould be submitted to their consideration. He saw no reason why the tariff should not be submitted to the consideration of the Com mittee in exactly the form in which had been laid upon the table of the House. TURNPIKE ROADS BILL. Mr. GRIMSDITCH would suggest to the Hon. Gentleman below him the propriety of postponing the second reading of the Turnpike Roads Bill, in order to give the parties interested time to become i.equainted with its provisions. Mr. M. SUTTON was sorry he could not accede to the sug gestion of his lion. Friend. THE INCOME TAX. Sir ROBERT PEEL brouguht in the Incomes tax Bill. The Order of the Day having been moved that the Bill should be read a first time, Lord J. RUSSELL and Mr. R. WAsow rose together to ad dress the House. The latter lion. Member was proceeding to say that he wished to bring a case relating to the liberty of the subject under the notice of the House, when he was 'lnterrupted by cries of " Order." Mr. WALLACE also attempted to address the House, when The SPEAKER interfered and • said, that when an lion. Member brought forward a Bill from the bar of the House he did so in obedience to the order of the House; and no other motion could be introduced after it had been snored that such a 13:11 be taken into their consideration. The Noble Lord, the Member for London, was, therefore, in possession of the House. Lord JOHN RUSSELL then rose, and said that he wished to speak to the question then before the Hour. The House would perfectly well remember that on the question of their approbation or d:sapprobation of the Income-tax, al though there had been divisions if the Committee, and divi sions of the House, there had been no division of. the House upon the main question. From some misunderstanding that. took place in the Committee of Ways and Means, the resolution passed without any division of the louse. Afterwards, when the Report was laud upon the table, he proposed to the House, not simply a negative to the proposal ot an Income-tax, but he proposed a resolution containing 'a general outline of the plan which he thought ought to be pursued —( Hear, hear. ) Therefore the s 4 isestion which the House had now to - decide, and in which many Honourable Members consider they could not concur with him without approving of what he had proposed on a former oeeasion, was, whether the Right Hon. Gentleman's proposal should be accepted, or whe ther some other alteration should be approved of by the House. After that division, it being very late at night, and the House being fatigued with the several discussions, and the Right lion. Baronet intimating that he meant on this day to move the first reading of the Bill, he (Lord John Russell) thought it more convenient not to take a division then. He therefore came simply to this question to oppose it as though it were_ a question for leave to bring in a Bill, to which Bill his had an insuperable ob jection. He would not attempt then, having already troubled the House at length upon the question of the resolut:on3 he had had the honour to propose—he would not attempt again to go over the general arguments agains• the' proposition. But he must say, that he looked at the conclusion of the debates of last week, and he considered that the argu ments then used against this proposition had been unanswered by the Right Hon. Gentleman and his colleagues. The general arguments which he (Lord J. Russell) had attempted to eats- bush, in which several of his Hon. Friends had followed him, that this tax ought not to be imposed, except in times of ex treme necessity, and that that case of extreme necessity had not arisen ; that there were no such circumstances in the general state of the country which justified such a step, and that the financial (facilities of the country were such, that much less objectionable measures might have been adopted. When he (Lord J. Russell) 'spoke the other evening, he found that the general course of argu ment was not only the course of argument which the Members with whom he had generally the hap,yiness to agree used, but they were the arguments which were stated very forcibly some years ago by the Right Hon. Gentleman himself, now the organ of the present Government, against imposing such a tax. He was not aware of the arguments at the time last week, but if he had been aware he did not think he could Lave bet ter tallied his own with that Right Hon. Gentleman's. He would read those arguments to the House made ose of by the Right Hon. Gentleman in 1833 upon this subject, in speaking against Lied Althorp, then Chancellor of the Exchequer. He then said nothing could justify the Noble Lord in proposing an income and property tax but a case of extreme necessity —( Ch eers) in subjecting the people of this country, in a time of peace, seeing that an inquisitorial process must be resorted t0...._ (Loud cheer.) He must have made that declaration in a pro phetic mood, and he then eontempla.tedhi3 proposition of 18 , 12. Therefore, when he stated the other oh:eetions that were made to the tax, he did tot think it was very justly oibtsersevslrtitililsintigt wh eve rything the only from their dispo sition to fin d fault the present Government did, that they ventured to give their opposition to a proposal so harmless and unobjectionable 'as that for an income-tax—( Hear, hear.) The Right lion. Gentleman went on to say, ‘‘ such a tax was a great resource in time of war, and he was therefore unwilling to establish sit h an inquisition, as it would be accompanied with as odi,zm - again* , it thats • - wuaisks". 'Omsk ? ' . it almost im prossible to resort to it in a tim e o f extreme necess i ty. " w as the objection which he (L or d J . R usse ll ) ha d ven tuht re a rl to repeat in the name of the Right Hon. Gentleman. He had not ventured to make it in such strong language, or tp , say that it would make it imp ,ssible to resort to it in case o f necessity, but that should it be necessary to resort to it in such a time of need, it would give the people such a distaste to the tax, and it would become so very unpopular, that it would be a great bar in the way of any Government who might wish to establish it in a time of great peril. One of the arguments which had been stated in favour of this tax, and upon which the Right Hon. Gentleman relied for its popularity, was, that it would only affect persons of incomes: above one hundred and fifty pounds a year ; and, in speaking of the petitions against the tax, he almost invited the poorer classes to petition in favour ( of it, in order to put down the petitions of those who felt • themselves aggrieved by its being imposed on them. He should ' say, that that invitation was quite unjustifiable, because the persons immediately and direetiy affected by thin tax were as much objects of the consideration of the House, being professional men, clergymen, and surgeons, persons who were . . . . . s!rugehri g most with as much difficulty as the common labourer' to maintain th e i r f am il ies i n t h at decent respectability whichte cleac those pints, ssed of education, and accustomed to the comforts of life. But he had also stated than though this tax would no t di rect l y a ff ect t h e l a b our i ng c l ass , it indirectly, by diminishit!g the means of employment. Right Hon. Gentlemen had expressed the same sentiment to 1'33, vet new they were told that it must be a P°P u , la a r , tax, by taking advantage of the p - ejudico might arise that it s o l e ly a ff ec t e d th e rich. that might depend on it it would affect all elassses of labourers, and that the opinion of the Right Honourable Baron et in 1b:33 would turn out to be a sound one. There i was another question with r e spect to the tax, and of %% hie! . • very little notice had been taken in the course 0 that debate, but upon which both Lord Althorp . 3 5 4 tbe Right Hon. Gentleman had expressed their opinion in 1833, lie meant that portion of it which related to Ireland. He was very glad that Ireland w 35 to be exen pted from the tax. He thought it an inquisitoria l :, an oppressive and unjust tax, and he was very gl a that one portion of the United Kingdom was to be exempt from it.—( Hear, hear.) But he could rut understand why, if it was not desirable to ha" an Income-tax in Ireland, it was desirable to ha ve taxes upon stamps anti upon articles of consumpti on, and to pursue the: e the reverse course to that which was sued in England.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") Why , if these principles of taxation were right, why not app l y them to Ireland as well as to England? If their plan wi.h respect to Ireland was right, why would not th e plan be as good in England an d in Scotland? It was said , machinery was wanting, but the Right Hon. Baronet propose" to lay a tax upon the landed property of absentees, and there • . meat be sonic machinery to Lind out what was the ineC gue arising from that property. The returns under the rnb r.. law Act were to he applied to that purpose, but if app ied ,r that purpose they might also be applied to a still greater extent. It was clear, therefore, that that was 1 10 ! at sufficient reason for exempting Ireland from the tax. But s , '" said the Right Hon. Gentleman in 1833, with regard to tax? The [tight Hon. Gentleman said "he wished to see Irelan d favoured as much as possible, • but to impose a properlY,l tis a upon England and Scotland, and to exempt Ire lan from its operation would be the height of injost'c e ; (Hear, hear, and laughter, from the Opposition.) 1 0 w el 'i unpopular that opinion might be, he could not but declare tits he thought it wourd be exceedipgly unjust." Sir It. PEEL—Go on. - Lord J. RUSSELL said he had not the means of doing °J .- ; he had thought that declaration sufEcient.—( Hear, he e at Ile could quite understand that what was inexpea ie in 1833, might, through a change of eircumstances,becollei expedient in 1842, but how that which was unjust in 1833 ° l t, . become just in 1842, quite exceeded his comprolionsio.l,4 If there were passages in the Right Hon. Gentle : hi speech in which having proved that the exemption w , ly be unjust ; he proved that it would be exce'd u „';te just, it was not in his ( Lord John Russell's) power to ' 41 ; 0 1. those passages. One of She Right lion. Gentlernerl' `t leagues had declared, that he could dress up a stato a n b t e to that House—(Laughter)—and it was very po sl ha t therefore, that he had made a speech, proving both t.) it would be unjust, and that it won'd be just.—(Laugh le o t The speech of the Right Honourable Gentleman on l e ts occasion contained the pith and substance of all the argto n ' ti ",t which had been urged against the tax in the course o f th is debate, and he had felt great satisfaction in finding that b e s ' own objections were those enlertaincol by the lionourau,g Gentleman in • 1833 s He had heard many atteturtif made by Honourable Members in the cours e t he that debate to jetint in dark colours the prosperity c' f i e f country and to r. present her means of meeting her eue'id in the most unfavourable light. These tepreeentation' i . vi l naturally awakened the indignation of his Right lien. F ri to t the Member for Portsmouth, and he shared with him l a ' its feeling. Now, let them look at those portions of the etaP er ,l to which they were accustomed to look when taking a ge1. 1 . 0 . survey of its affairs. There was the United Kingdom of V vit h • land, Scotland, and Ireland in a state of ti anquillity. , t o • respect to our foreign possessions, reference had been in auc to Canada. For some years there had been a popular Aese n ' ae a , existing in that country. That Assembly had made a ilet n o . which implied a total independence of this country. The c re st sequence was that there had been an infraction of the g ao l s constitutional principles that the revenue raised in C 3 , 00 should be applied f.r particular and specified purposes. ' s oh events had extended from 1822 to 1837. In the Parboi l :el as now c •nstituted, he believed a very considerable inaiZ e ie were well affected to the Crown and the kritish empire! rope, hints had been thrown out of the danger of war in E u rli but when did a Minister of the Crown propose a tax Oa hire a contingency? With respect to the melancholy reverse P ost, Lad been experienced iu India, it had been clearly show'; .. a ble viewed in a financial point of view rnerely, that dean u se calamity did not require the impo‘ition of an oppressive, 'l o p unequal, and inquisitorial tax upon the people of this eonlverls • Then, much was made of the state of oar relations ~ to China ; and really ore member of the Cabinet, alltelititir d our dangers with respect to China, spoke of the Emil - 0 i China as if he had been the Emperor Napoleon, a t i l i ty 0 if the fleet of junks, at Canton, had been the gu t os ea Boulogne. (Cries of " Hear, hear.") lie had yea' language upon the subject, which no Alinisser would he le tre el t tired to use in the face of the might) dangers which thr ea t) telt the couatry in 1804 and 1805. Now he (Lord J. Heist / 00 no apprehension with respect to the war in China. w hich a war, it should he remembered, the expenses of d oe • wore confined to the country in which it was carr ied If they had a war with any of the Powers of Europe or al to United States of America, they would find it te esnee e, ! ar strengthen their colonial possessions, and they would se e care that there should be no point either b y t se' or land, at which their interests would be endangered. 135 3 0 body would apprehend that the Chinese would capture sla l ,o or would attack Gibraltar, or do any of those things me t. the Great Powers of Europe might be expected to at" - , of They had, besides, this alternative, that if the beleel to China should refuse to conclude a treaty, an u pon put an end •to hostilities, they might se ize cso f some convenient sea-port in his dominions, asetotebt on still their commerce with the Chinese. They flu hold either Carona or Chusan, and they would then be e n de ee to carry on heir trade more securely than they 1 ci e ies during past years, when their Superintendent had beet/ (ll' salted and the safety of their commerce constoo t c / hitie dangered by the hostility of the Government " f ey the lint supposing that their expenses should be increastda pfe Chinese war half a million a-year—suppose they thatu Ore to pay the who:e expenses of that war—and suppo' e ,n' shouid continue fur B:me years, still that would be tw o , e sto e for the imposition of an Income-tax.—(Cheers.) W i l t, del to the second part of the subject, on which, n o dou e al eee; would all, hereafter, have frequent opportunities of oPv, ints ,lJ he meant that part of the Government proposition rel a ' s : i pro' . the tariff. lie had not any objection to the gen e ; P r o cintes on which those alterations had been proeos e tY t s having, as a Minister of the Crown, advi ed her sli' ses ,l°" make that Speech with which she had opened the loti erre siti of Pediment, in which, after stating the ,le r e : ' that existed for raising the amount of the. l i ts .e l eti 4 ; venue, her Majesty directed Parliament to consider me Is revenue could not be raised in the manner least burdea'd 010 the people, by a reconsideratten of the import duties , a n ( ) r e li t ; duties on corn,--after having, as a Minister of the t e lee., advised her Majesty to deliver that speech, he couhl.nt° r tios s to the principles on which it hail been proposed, on a tlea te t . the present changes. But if the Honourable „,'-', r itsalf ) , opposite had, before the dissolution of the last t"; to ; t o made known the principles on which they interol i e u te deil it e if they had last i year stated the principles they • ' wo oli t i o , pursue, he thought the proposal of those change r ote° It have produced the panic which he now understood e a rs .) many parte of the country on the subject.---(C 9ta id ot o woula have been pet fectly possible for them to hav t he , o p year, ailer saying that they had no confidence Ittociplesb,e Government, teat, with regsrd to the general P e t t o bp i I which the commerce of the country 0 4.; 0 0 t ee for the future, regulated, they were of (W i n g ert: t o ] 1 there were many duties payable on the 1 a no s e ete of foreign commodities which ought to be reduced t° wiri e r. I amount, and that in many instances in their opjui:T o 0; t hif ciple of protection had been carried to too grea t j s oi. er te :If they had done so, the people and the fitrru et ello b ot h I country, who looked for plain dealing on ti l t t test i , of would have understood what was meant; and see i t'effoo,,,re of the great parties of this country, and that bowooltla'tee Parliament, were agreed upon this principle, they seem 1 the have had time to consider, and would have conenseett °r oe/ proposal, whether it had been trom one Gosern'o- ye tha t other. But they seemed to him, even now' o yid t hieg, had adopted this principle to hesitate in o nli , sel" which it seemed to him to be the d pro). ett re• that could be said on the subject, and which lie ha ro es'e n l ' co ult l from the first moment, that it might produce i'',o i teh e 0 4 i injui y, and loss to some extent, to those interests a 0 1 6/ . be affected; but that that loss would be repaid, anio routs„„ t' than repaid, by the future general prosperity of t t ento l v e ssel (Cheers. ) But they did not dothe were o v .....t here 0 ,4 ing, when speaking of the agricultural pratectiOd be en sfoo es two things which they said, and which ha t he s i i i , 0 1 by the Right. Honourable the Secretary 01 . er tio,_ the Department—that the price of the variou' sa id ul i „, e lJ consumption would be reduced, but, as had bl o n eueer 10 Noble Lord the Secretary of Ireland, that the, P„ e hteq t ,, lie not find any reduction in their produce.—(" - ( La or time wish was, that if they took sound principles th e Y p art' i e t io; t i prepared to avow them. With respect to foal 0. _,,f e ss tariff, he was quite ready to sune h r " b e e"';aipor cheers.) But there was one thing whic h 0 0 th it ee ill required explanation. There was a heavy 0 ,..a st eelt i ", t e'ont r ' tation of foreign copper, but they did not forll nto thi n . a ft!~ consequence of which was that they introduee".„ol tho' fer eee copper used for the purpose of smelting, ! tic , io, th , e n ''' wards that copper was sold at a lower l' 1 a t n : o ld ' l ' countries than copper could be olota ine a t t l woo . t . c/ Two years ago copper went from this country e , for tile,' ; lint per cent. chewier than it could be parches " of t he r e ogee stockyards. 'hat was a pgoof of the a bstird o ttl an don t" wary, if they proposed to change it, they must els a _Ole A t r t 'e ti ee 7, meat they stood by in the case of sue r e .• the h e ar. In the present case they were fuvourrote t hat, ~e 0 t he ; of e e tte' rt i e o, Cuba, mines worked by slaves.--(Cri" O s ' be es le ','hey refined to change when the questiore, the et e t.e , e a o re , consumers of sugar and their own slaves it , ,,. , , 0 pr o I . '. t ee* . the e d t e h a e se m o i and they abandoned it when it was between : I t, be e t , l , e; ne e re .would no t on'Y ake d w as ' _4o' not stand by the argument in the case of I n g a a t te r eanr i r thel details, hut extend the principle. AII h e o to 8 501 „, rt ekno i w oon tev to be just. This was not the mom ent f ne: he of ta C ri o ff r , n t w h a e l y l. It might be re, r. ii it, ori.tio should aet on the principles they had th to inipos e ati tt o svel ' tax, for all classes were divided as t r e e _ads of exeser sens e ti e: ready to propose some especial g t uitrshpatringeriPeal-e:."itp,eti:):lll?,!-I modification, while there was t r n . len to P a Y v i n ced oL u ; peril or necessity which would lead tie „ a s CI _., his o° oo evasion, from a sense of patriotism,: t 1, 1 e foun d, I,' take lila 91.-- dif means of raising the revenue no4, u ,stust , lie en_ ad t hat , propositions having been decided else Bill he " ee t 01 , oilier course than to move that the slat'eurn--1140 six months. Ah d felt " • the " t s l b e n ° ,, g ht in in c() o f the 0 4 him Sir to lt t i a l lt E e E t L he sail a ' tl t t i e ne r reading of the Bill, which he had e r, , , dareei nent neooo _ Noble Lord 01 resisting 400:10: the decision of that. House. The , " l, all 'a ornet oe : eb Lord bad been a personal aPll•toguntleci on a , sl_ d pia s , herniae:it address, to hinvelf , ,ecit tho Noblell-mespreesileot had made in the year 1833, in %es. Tihade was fou g o l i a l d lie would address himself to the a , r , fs . jos:. the it - 14° 5 Y ,10.1 0 Lord had thus derived from him .. a. a .,.. was, of course, : 0,0,010 Income-tax at the preseut per , i: e d re e m s ado to t he . o ee eee s important, when appeals ,r, _ sit i e „, to take in , '1" . • e ts deev .1 of any one in support of 21 the which s , . his t.le Noble°u argumentsLi,rdhad e: t in t r :: 0 1 :I n r :t the r i, e ° , i n b o g : 4 l )) : l a ; Il i t to ' e n n . A s r e' ar el; l o : • °ie t : then to had stated, in the year 163 e, would ask. what wasva a 10 , the circumstance tinder ,'P n e l i ° 0 1 1 •7;0 the 1 e : 94; t i'l h j; of an Income-tax; but, he , i e . , Them was It: cella ~,) financial position of the c o s t i t e ly s ~ ~,,, ch Cries of "Hear, eitu e ` the Exchequer, of 1,0 0 , 00 of revenue over expert _ a top 'fhat was the estimated excesslta ceesiderable reduct•ioe",, . la , surplus, according tooth e ... , Lord Althorp then propos '' 1,00 0 ,00a of r ev ue io l v ' t „......_7ent et the -_- gar, which would lead to a less of , von _ . sc.. be a net 00 •as the financia s • dn eye,‘ of about 516,000 1 . That " I been called upon to, tn .rert w a ' t when he (Sir It. Peel) had had been roaul n , - 10 ,,, , 0 1 opinion upon the subject. h i se-tax, to reduce the vri 0,302 0_ the malt •tax, to reduce the co. , Lord Althorp calculated that then( „ r tv-tax by seaY ' a, It; mutation for the remission of 4 1 . e l t :17.; the inpos tb i o ha of and it 171 as proposed to impose_ a t., p e ro .i p i. .. an d windo":iettaott, f ,e , (Sir It. Peel) had decidedly and moment flit , I iellate of the r se tax, and the window-tax ; a property-tax as a coannutationrdi liajfir atthetrealli;ctrei; t ot THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY AIoRNINCT. APRIL 19, 1 442.