The Sun. — London, England, 1842-07-19 00:00:00

He did not blame the Ministers for making those accusations, because he had no doubt they heard them from others who were interested in making mis representations which would lead to uphold the infamous laws which ruined the country.—(Cheers.) One of those charges was, that they paid for five hundred pair of shoes and stockings, which were purchased for the poor people during the severity of last winter.—(Shame, shame.) Another charge was, that when the distress was made known in various parts of the country, their own members sent them down a quantity of blankets, nvhich, after a careful inspection, were distributed ;amongst 1,500 families, who were without anything in the shape of blankets or any other bedding whatsoever. They gave those blankets to persons of the best cha racters who had known better days, and to those who had the largest families. But after all they could only give half a blanket to each family._ (Hear, hear.) And then they gave 1001. to those who had clothes in the pawn-offices, to redeem which would cost four times less than if they got them new ones.—(Hear, hear.) Another abuse com plained of was, that the ministers of the gospel of every denomination, who had colected funris to purchase clothes to enable the poor people to come to the houses of worship, put 5,000/. into the commili fund, which it was stipulated should be paid to theni as their neces sities required it, for the ministers had many cases of distress with which they had more intimate acquaintance than any others. They received 3,5001. from this fund, which they distributed as it was wantemi, and they left 1,500/. in the common fund.—(Hear, hear.) Commissioners were sent clown by Government to inves tigate the state of matters, and the Relief Committee was in consequence sent about their business, at a time when they were distributing relief to the amount of 450/. per week. The Commissioners undertook the management of relief to the poor with a view to effect a saving, and to carry out the object nothing but oatmeal, bread, and potatoes, were given to the people, without any means being allowed them of supplying themselves with milk, salt, or soap. The patient in a dying state, and the siursinss, mother got no other food. At the end of the first two weeks after the Coin rnissioners had undertaken 'the management of the relief fund, he (Mr. Henderson) though Chief Magistrate of the town, knew no more of the transactions of the Commissioners, or the expenses incurred by them, than any individual now present, further than in his magisterial capacity endeavouring to preserve order. At the end of those two weeks they were led to believe, not indeed from any direct informa tion, that 500/. per week was drawn from the relief fund ; afterwards, that 550/. was drawn from the same source fur the relief of the poor, and at the end of six weeks it was for the first time made known that the amount drawn from the Lonflon Relief Committee was 6181. per week. Then, when it was found impossible to put an end to the distress, or drive off the people by hard usage, they left the burden of relief to those to whom it was before entrusted. A representation had been made to the Government of this state of matters, but, he re gretted to say. without any effect. He found, on his way up to London, that st Stockport, Bolton, and other towns, the means allowed with which to furnish relief to the poor was d able that allowed to Paidey. At this tme the maximum allowance to a person with a lirg . e family was four shillings io six shillings and sixpence per week. The people were driven to borrow meal of their neighbours, an:i some had forestalled a day's allowance for so many weeks that it took the whole of the allowance receive A from the Committee to pay their debts to them. A f e w cases would illustrate the state of things better thin any general statement, and he had collected a fete before he left.—(Hear.) The first was a cas te; of a husband and wife and two children, one of diem suffering under severe inflammation, and . to procure medical assistance and food they had only 4s, ta. a-week. Yet, on the case being reported to the •ootntnittee, so limited were their means, that they stated it was nut a case they could interfere with. Another vase was that of a man a wife, and three children, tto pi o • mother having just given birth to a fourth, with only ss. a-week for subsistence. He appealed to the meeting and to the British public, if this was a state of things that ought to be permitted to continue? And there were hundreds and hundreds of such cases. Not a day elapsed without such cases being presented to them. Another case that had attracted his attention was that of a poor woman who bad rings ed long with a cancer in the bowels, and who had died the day he visited the family. The father was nearly naked, and he supplied him with shoes to attend his wife's'fu neral, and begged another gentleman to supply him with other clothing. one of the daughters, a girl nearly fourteen years cif age, was nearly naked, with the exception of a few rags. Another daughter, a child four years of age, was so affected bN the apparent happy change that had taken place in the family, from a supply of bread and clothing being sent in on the death of her mother, that he saw her actually dancing in a corner for joy.. At the last meeting before he left, a starving crowd sent in a deputation to wait upon them, and, as a sample of their statements, he would read two extracts, the first from a letter to W. H. Hyett, Esq., the Secre tary of the Relief Committee, signed by the Provost, the B.+illi-• and Sheriff-Substitute, it was penned by a gentlem do not friendly to Corn-law repeal. " Two de putations from public meetings came to a recent meet ing of our Committee, to complain of what was termed • the ' cruelty' of driving the people to starvation, and of giving them nothing but bread and meal to subsist upon ; thereby forcing them to dispose (as they were doing) of part of their scanty allo Nances to procure other necessaries for their families, viz.—milk. soap, and such like. Both deputations (one of which was headed by a parish clergyman) told us that it was V.e unanimous feeling of the public meetings +hat the duty of humane and respectable men in our situation as managers, was to give adequate allowances !or sustaining life and health to the • multitudes willing to work, but destitute of employment, and of the means of subsi+tence, by no fault of their own." He would now read the opinion of the same individual on this state of th.ngs. .6 It cannot he expected tat the Paisley Committee - should take personal responsibility of the debt ; and to say that they are to be held responsible, is to put an end at once to their functions at what ever hazard to the peace of the town." Unless funds had been obtained from some unforeseen quarter, he feared they must be put in the position stated its the letter. After the allowances were reduced, many members of the Committee withdrew, and he himself only continued to act on the assur ance to the starving people that he would use every effort to in ' crease the allowances. Another deputation waited on them a short time before he left, consisting exclusively of working men, and the language of that deputation was simply this : " We . are starving, and you must do something for us." Many of that deputation bad not tasted food that day, and would not be „able to draw their allowances till the next day. One of that Tdeputation was a man of intelligence, able to discuss the doctrines of Newton and of Fergussor, the theories of • Hutton and Werner, or of Cuvier, who was capable of convers ing on almost every subject ; he was a leading member of the Alechanics' Institution. Such was the man, who was reduced, by no fault of his own, to tell them that he was starving. But this individual possessed another qualification that ought to attract the attention of the British public. They were all aware of the immense sums that had been lavished en the Duke of Wellington. In his own neighbour hood, in Glasgow, one hundred thousand pounds had been subscribed to erect a monument to the Duke of Wellington— (a Delegate—" 'they deserve to suffer !")—and for what ? For conquering the French, and his brilliant campaigns in Spain and Portugal. The individual whom he had stated had declared himself to be starving, had himselt fought and bled under the Duke at. Waterloo ; he asked those who talked of British valour and Briti,h honour, if this was the way in which those who had fought and bled, slimed he rewarded, while the Lonours and glory were given to the officers alone ?—( Hear. ) From another document, not drawn up by a friend of Corn-law repeal, ho found that there were at present 9.777 persons de pendent upon 'hem for relief. The distre!s at Stockport and Bolton fed infinitely short of that of Paisley. This was proved by the statement of the Government In epectors themselves; it was as great in Paisley as in all .the rest of the country put together; and without the means of increasing the allowances, he saw no mode of preserving the peace, or lives of the inhabitants. Under these cireu:nsianees, it became their duty as Delegates to consider what was to be done. He was quite aware that the leaders of both virties in the House had de. tared against granting any sum of mon ,, y from the public funds for the lAA' of the poor; then, 'un,, the country submit to the dogmas of such statesti en, who had never done anything to increase the libcrtie, of Ihe people, except upon compulsion? On the Ca tholic que •tton, the Duke of Wellington and the Government did not yi• Id from any conviction of thejustice of the claims, but, train apiirehension of a civil war. Would that war have destroyed 10,000 human beings? But he doubted whether the distress now existing would not be more fatai; and were they to be told that they were to stand still, and that the Government could do nothing ? They must appeal to the people of London so as to act on the House of Commons; he hoped that they would keep up an earnest and vigorous agitation, as the only means of pre-erving the peace, order, and the lives oh their fellow-subj-cts. Wi:hout their aid he saw no prospect except of returnir g to a miserable population, disappointed and hag gard, and unable, without relief, to go through the winter. The CHAIKMAN introduced to the meeting, Mr SIIA KPE, of Manchester, who proceeded to address the meeting on the spread of manufactures and the disposition of the Governments abroal to encourage them. He saw a very strong disposition on the part of these Governments to support their own native establishments of every description. With re gard to all the various railway establishments, they had intro duced an amazing number of mechanical establishments, and were bent upon making their own engines and their own machines of every description. As regarded the cotton, flax, woollen, spinning, and weaving, be had been astonished at the progress which was made. He had been through a cotton mill in St. Petersburgh, a month ago, which was under the management of a Scotch gentleman of the name of Craig ; he never saw a cotton mill under abetter system of management. lie had been assured that their yarn competed in the Moscow market with the yarn of the first spinner in Manchester. Mr. COBDEN inquired whethar foreign countries did not adopt our improvements in machinery almost as soon as they were made. Mr Stu ant—Yes, by means of models and drawings they obtain them almost immediately. Mr. RAWSON asked, if the law remained as it was, were the wages in hi. (Mr. Sharpe's) branch of business likely to fall ? Mr. !. HARPE—Yes, they must go down. Last week they had given notice of a reduction to take place this week They had also been under the necessity of reducing their hands for the last three weeks.. Mr. COBDEN inquired what proportion the wages now paid bore to those formerly paid? 311'. SilAitrE replied that within the last three weeks they had been reduced 20 per cent., inctiuliog the reduction in the number of hands. This week there would be another reduction of TO per cent. Mr. CottneN said, as much had been said about machinery throwing workmen out of employment, he begged to ask Mr. Site' pe how bug it took to bring a new machine into opera time whether it came suddenly into operation, or Whether it took semis time to bring it to bear ? Mr. SIIA itrE raid that must depend in a great treasure upon the character of the machine. It had taken meny }ears to bring, some of their inventions into operation. In the case of one of their patents they had expended twenty or twenty five thousand pounds before any meceedeil in bringing it into operation. In the case of their self-acting mule they applied for anti obtained an additional grant of seven years, because they had n o t b een su ffi c i e ntly remunerated. He wished it to beFleariy und ers to o d in what caincity he came :here. H;s polities were Conservative—( Hear, :car)--he was a Cirt.. a e rva t.ivn in principle. He came there as an indisidual who . had been e t ens i ve l y connecte d w ith eng i n eering.— (Hear, hear.) He had been abroad three or four times within the last three months, and had witnessed a great deal more than he had expected to see. He thought the time had now arrived when the Government should do everything which they could do, consistently with the interests t o n fa r ll classes, of thisasses,to relieve the co mmercial and manufacturing te (cheers. ) Every foreign country was es country.— pushing and forcing, if . h e might use the term, its own branch of manufacture, more particularly that of mechanical engineering. They were getti n over Many if oar badlands, andthough they were avowedly not getting much profit they said they hoped, by experience, to get a good profit eventually. Fifteen years ago his own firm had bad offers from foreign countries of large and liberal support, provided they would settle there. He had heard, within eight and forty hours, of a very liberal offer which was made to an establishment connected with manufactures. His own firm had received indirect offers in the present year. He hoped they would have no cause to listen to them, but he really did not know what was to become of the mechanical branch of business in England. As he had before said, he thought the time was come when it behoved the Government to do every . thing in their power to relieve the commercial and manufacturing interests. Mr. RAwsox begged to inquire whether, in all the cir cumstances of the case, it was not imperatively necessary that they should be placed on a level with foreigners ±n the article of food ? Mr SHARPE said it was most desirable certainly. He did not propose to give an opinion as to what was best to be done, except so far as to say that the commercial and manufacturing interests should be relieved. Mr. Rawsox inquired whether there was a prospect of a further reduction of wages ? Mr. SHA RPE said, it the orders did not come in more freely in future than they had done lately, they must, at all events, reduce the number of hands. The CHAIRMAN said it was curious to observe the different es timates formed by the Government of this country and foreign countries in reference to the importance of manufactures. Every other Government seemed to think that to en courage manufactures was to promote the well-bring of a country ; it was reserved for the British House of Commons to tell them that you might encourage ma nufactures to too great an extent.—( Hear, hear.) The landed aristocracy of this country were a distinct race of beings from the landed aristocracy of other countries. The former saw that their country would be benefited by the increase and encouragement of manufactures ; our landed aristocracy were only:careful lest the encouragement of manufactures should in terfere with and lower their rents. A DELEGATE wished to ask the Provost of Paisley, as Chief Magistrate of that town, whether, if the peeple should be driven by hunger to help themselves to food, he would feel himself justified in ordering the 'military to fire upon them ? Mr. HENDERSON, Provost of Paisley, said he would not shrink from answering the question. The views of himself, and other professors of religion on that snb)ect, were so well known, that the question need scarcely have been put. It was well known that they held the opinion that military force, under all circumstances was unnecessary and improper. At the same time, he felt that he would be bound to use every effort in his power to preserve the peace, and life, and property. He was convinced, that a single word of advice would better preserve the peace than a thou-and soldiers. If they saw a house on fire, and the life of a human being in danger, their first effort would be directed to save the human being ; and if there were ten thousand persons who were starving, as was the case in Paisley, would they be justi fied, under any circumstances, in sacrificing their lives ? (Hear, hear.) If they saw a valuable cargo about to be lost, and there were two or three individuals on board the vessel, would they not forget the property, and endeavour to save the lives?—( Hear, hear.) Within little more than a year, not only the whole of Great Britain, but the whole of Europe, had been agitated by the loss of the President steam-ship. To what, on that occasion, had the public anxiety been di rected—to the property, the vessel and cargo--or to the human beingson board her ?—(Cheers )—the human lives undoubtedly. —( Cheers.) The Duke of Richmond had a son on board that ill-fated vessel—that son's life was valuable to the Duke. Could there be a doubt but that the Duke would gladly have paid double the value of the vessel and her cargo, if by so doing he could have saved his son's life.—(Cheers.) Then should the. Duke of Richmond remember that the life of every other human being is as dear to his relatives as was the life of his son to him.—( Loud cheers.) These were his notions and views on the subject—which he would be prepared to act on, an I justify. Mr. RAWSON said that, as an opinion had gnus abroad that if the price of food should be reduced, the price of wages must be reduced likewise ; and, as Mr. Sharpe had stated, that, if things remained as they did, he should have to dis charge more hands, which would lead to a reduction of wages, he wished to ask Mr. Sharpe, if free-trade were es tablished, whether he should not be able to employ more hands. Mr. SHARPE would not say positively. He hoped and be lieved that fresh orders would come in in consequence of the es tablishment of free trade, and that would keep up wages. Mr. JAMES WILSON, of London, wished to ask Mr. Sharpe a qnestion in connection with this important subject, which went to show the influence which the price of food exercised on the rate of wages. Mr. Sharpe knew the manufactories on the Continent, both for cotton-spinning and machine-making— he alluded particularly to the Phoenix manufactory at Ghent, and he would ask, seeing the great perfection to which the continental manufacturers had attained, whether the rate of wages in this country must not approximate more and more to the rate of wages on the Continent? and if the wages should even be equal, how would it ever be possible for them to com pete with the Continental labourers, while food in this country was double the price it was on the Continent? Mr. SHARPE said that the excellence of the English work men was such that employers could afford to give higher wages than were given on the Continent, and yet to undersell the fo reigner ; but still, unless something should he done to counter act the progress of manufactures in Europe and America, they would soon undersell us, Mr. Witson—There is a constant progress of approximation. I%lr. SHARPE —Certainly: Mr. WILSON knew that on the Belgian railroads, where five years ago almost every man employed was an Englishman, they now had but one Englishman employed, mid he had been told by Count Cogan, one of the managers of the Phoenix works at Ghent, that every day they were decreasing their number of English workmen, and increasing the number of the Belgian ones. The fact was that machines were now made so much by machinery, that the same degree of manual skill was not now required that had been required heretofore. Therefore wages were constantly , approximating, and when th e y b ecame equa l, how could the English workman compete with the foreign one if food were double the price here that it was on the Continent ? Air. COBDEN said that admitting that the English workman obtained higher wages, he was only paid at the same rate as the Continental labourer. He was paid higher wages because he was more skilled. Was he not entitled to the full profits of his labour ?—(Cheers.) That point had been ad mirably put by Mr. Deacon Hume, who had asked the aristo cracy—Does the skill and ability of the English workman be long to him or to you ?—(Cheers.) His bones and sinew s belong to him, not to you • and if he earns high wages th a t is no reason why you should take a portion of them from him ? They were not paid higher wages than they were paid on the Continent. There were English artisans in every large town ow the Continent, from Ostend to Moscow. These men were paid double the wages that were paid to Continental workmen. Why? Because they earned them. These Conti nental capitalists did not send to England for the purpose of getting dear labour. Their labour was cheaper ttian the la bour of the Continental labourer, because they were mere skilful workmen, and they instructed the others, and thus they were paid double wages, because they were worth doubie the money that Continental workmen were. —( Cheers. ) Mr. Dux, of Paisley, had very little to add to the state ments already made by the Provost, except to observe on the effect which the general distress had produced on the value of property. Every one was aware that rents had in conse quence fallen one-half in Paisley, and even those reduced rents could scarcely be collected. This was another ingredient in the general distress, for those who had smite little property were less able to afford relief to the sufferers in consequence of the depreciation of their own property. There were WOW inhabitants in Paisley, one-fifth of whom were living on the other feur-fifths ; and unless some remedy were devised, they would ultimately eat up the whole population. He had been reminded since he came to this Conference of the success of the manufacturers of the Continent, and he understood that they had every improvement in Russia as soon as here. He met the other day a friend newly returned from St. Petersburgh, and that friend told him that he was sent by the Russian Government to go over all the manufactories its England, and observe everything that was going on in the shape of improved machinery. There were six persons em ployed in the same way by the Russian Government. In six months he would go back and report the result of his observe firms, whilst his place would be taken in this country by another. 'l hey (the Conference) had seen that other countries considered manufactures as of some importance. —( Hear, hear.) Nor was it any wonder, for in manufactures consisted the greatness of England. If it had not been for manufactures, how wouLt it have been possible to spend 800,000,0001. in expensive wars to prevent reform at home.—( Hear, hear.) But unless trade were set free, it was certain that the manufactures of other countries would continue to increase and ours to decrease. Our best artisans, as well as our capitalists, were emigrating to America; the strengthen, as well as add to the wealth of other Governments. —( Hear, hear.) The aristocracy would find, too late, that they had taken away the only thing on which th e ir s t reng th de pended.—(Hear, hear.) In the year 1838 he (Mr. Dick) formed one of a Deputation who waited on Mr. Hume, and urged him to let the Whigs be turned out, as th e y were doing do good, and it was desirable that the Tories should have an op portunity of showing the people how little could be expected from them. It was his opinion that agitation should be carried on in such a way as to crush the organic institutions of the country, and to make the House of Commons what it ought to be, the representative of the people. Mr. WALKER, Delegate from Linlithgow, th en a dd resse d the meeting. e said, after the many cases of distress that have been already before the Conference, I conceive it quite unnecessary almost to say snore on that subject. Yet merely for the sake of showing how very general the depression of trade is in every quarter of the country, I may simply rum over a few facts. In the town of Linlithgow, whose staple trade is the manufacturing of shoes, business has of late fallen off most lamentably. It has been rapidly declining for the last nine months, yet the master shoemakers ; partly in sympathy for their workmen, and partly in the hope of a revival of trade, if not in the spring, at least in the beginning of summer, have continued to employ their hands as long as they could possibly afford to do so. But now, being completely disappointed of all demand for those goods, and their stocks having accumulated double the amount ever held on hand befere, they have been reluctantly driven to the dire necessity of discharging a great number of their workmen ; so that besides many in short I employ, there has been, for the last two weeks, no less than seventy workmen going about perfectly idle, there being no masters in the present crisis of trade in a condition to give them employment. Batbgate, a place in the neighbourhood, and principally occupied by hand-loom weavers, is likewise in a most deplorable state for want of employ ment. It is only the best hands who are in employ, (and it may be a man with family), and earning from three to four_ shillings per week, so much are wages now reduced. Whitbarn, a small village, with a hundred weavers, is also at the lowest ebb. Here employ ment for the present is not to be had at all. Blackburn, another village, had lately two mills going, but now one is no more, and the other at a stand still for a time, which thus greatly augments the number of unemployed. Indeed, so bad are prospects in these districts, that property in shops and other buildings have fallen one-half in value. Be ness , Wirtlestan, South Queensbury, and every other village in the county of Linlithgow are involved in the general distress and depression of business that at present hangs so heavily on this country. It is really grievous to contemplate the amount of want and commercial distress that at present exists throughout the land ; and it is even more grievous to contemplate that, although there has been a clear mode of allevaition pointed out —the abolition of the Corn-laws—yet we cannot preval on the Legislature to see it. They cannot see it, or they will not see it. Tu be sure, none are so blind as those that won't see. If , I remember rightly, I think it was Mr. Windham, who, many years ago, exclaimed (in the fire of his imagination) on e night in the House of Commons—" Perish commerce ; let the Constitution lire." Could anything be more sublime and_ ridiculou s ? Th e id ea of commerce perishing and the Constitution pretending to live, notwithstanding, is most sublime and ridiculous, indeed. Yet, the majority of our present House of Commons seem to carry the sublime and ridiculous eve nto a still higher degree, for they would not only perish commerce, but their motto appears to be—" Perish commerce, perish Coust it ut ion, perish everything; let the landed interest Well, let it live, let . the gentlemen of the landed interest live, but surely it is too much, too bad, that they should only live on the ruin of all other classes. It cannot last—it must not last. Mr. TAYLOR, of Somer's-town, would not intrude himself upon the meeting, but that, he should be ashamed to go back to his constituents with the reproach of having been the silent member. He should like to go back with power to tell them that they could do something to pro_ mote the object_ —Ol for which they were l eagued,u, hear.) Sir Robert Peel had sent a person down to London Bridge to sea what amt of persons went to Twickenham and ?mob and , LONDON, TUESDAY MORNING, JULY 19, 1842 other places, andhe found they were all well dressed persons, and Sir Robert Peel used that as an argument respecting the dii tress of the country. Fancy a person going to London Bridge to judge of the distress of the country.—( Hear.) He should conclude with a resolution which he had prepared, to the effect, that the meeting being deeply impressed with gratitude,felt it to be its duty to thank the Association, of such towns, boroughs, villages, &c., which had sent Delegates to the Conference, the statements from whom had made a lasting impression on the people of the metropolis, who had expressed their perfect con currence with them, that any law, calculated to prevent the poor from obtaining food and raiment, ought to be repealed ; and that they would use every exertion to obtain a restitution of their rights, and to obtain the repeal of the Corn-laws, and other laws calculated to injure the community. And the meet ing recommended that meetings be held night arid day, in order that the state of the once called happy England might be known. have their jurisdiction iii the parts of the country with which they were connected b y irtli. or other ties. He had borrowed part u: this Bill frwn his oble and Learned Friend (Lard Cottenham), frcirn whom he was never ashamed to lit, or borrow.— (Hear, hear, and a laugh.) His Noble Eriehil prop-.)sed to appoint fifty-two barristers as Judges of those Lociti Courts. But he (the Lord Chancellor) had not stomach to digest such a number.—(bear, and a laugh.) The Noble and Learned Lord concluded by moving the second reading of the Bankruptcy Bill. Lord COTTENHAM was happy to find that the principle of the Bankruptcy Bill now before the House was the same as that of the Bill which he had had the honour of laying upon the table. With respect to County Courts, their jurisdiction was not foreign to the Constitution, but inherent in it, both in principle and prac tice. What lie and his Noble Friend on the Woolsack chiefly differed about, was the machinery by which their views were to be carried into effect. He differed from his Noble and Learned Friend on the Woolsack in thinking that the Commissioners of Insolvency and the tm merchants of Lond o n w ere r i g ht i n th e i r j u eine, when they prayed f or th e a b o li t i on o f arrest i n execu ion. It was found that, ou t o f th ree th ousan d n i e hun dred and five cases of persons incarcerated for the non payment of their d e bt s , dividends were paid onlyiin 199 cases ; and out of one thousand persons imprisomid, only 164 were remanded for the improper disposal of their property. Of what use was their iinprisonmene ? He had the authority of the creditors themselves, as ex pressed in the memorial addressed to his Noble and Learned Friend on the Woolsack, that the imprisbninent was ruinous to the debtor, and of no profit to the creditor. He had introduced his Bankruptcy and Local Courts Bills at an early period of the session, but he had re served the discussion for a more convenient time. His Noble Friend's measures embraced a great part of his, and his only objection to the measures of his Noble Friend was, that they did not go far enough, and he would feel it to be his duty to take the sense Of their Lordships upon his own Bills. He was convinced that the division of the country into six districts, including the metropolitan, would not be sufficient ; and that ten Commissioners in the five provincial districts would not be able to discharge the business in an adiquate manner. With respect to the mea sure proposed by his Noble and Learned Friend for the amendment of the law relating to lunacies, he was convinced that two Commissioners would not be sufficient, even taking into account all the facilities of travelling which railroads offered. With respect to the County Courts 'Bill, he differed from his Noble and Learned Friend in thinking that there ought to be fixed and resident local jurisdictions, and upon this subject as well as the others, it was his intention to press their Lordships to a division. . Lord BROUGHAM expressed his concurrence in most of what had fallen from his Noble and Learned Friend who had addressed the House. The County Courts Bill, as far as it went, met with his entire appro bation. As to the Bankruptcy Bill, he did not think that the extension of the Metropolitan jurisdiction, from 40 miles to 100, was greater than the improved facilities of travelling warranted. The proposed alteration in the law relating to lunacy, was a great improvement. He was glad to . hear the Lord Chancellor say, that al though his mind was not made up to the abolition of arrest in execution, he was disposed to give it a fair, full, and (if he understood him right) a favourable consideration. He had ten times introduced Bills into the House for extending the jurisdictions of County Courts to all actions of tort, wherein the damages were no more than 501., whether they were laid for contract, or assault, or seduction, or false imprisonment, or ma liciously holding to bail ; and he thought that the pre sent Bill would have no better fate than had attended his.—(A laugh.) He complained that in none of the three Bills now before their Lordships was there a provision giving the power of appeal from the Local Courts to the Judges of the Superior Courts. He con cluded by assuring their Lordships that he had not de parted from the opinions which he had formerly ex pressed on the subjects which these Bills embraced, but he was; at the same time, pleased to find that the prin ciples of his own measures were so far carried out. The Rev. Mr. Massie, of Salford, wished to inform the meet ing that, not only had the inhabitants of the borough which he represented agreed to a requisition calling on their Members to use every legislative means to prevent a prorogation of Parlia ment until the condition of the country was taken into con sideration, but the people of Salferd, on Saturday evening last, having been convened by a requisition from the Borougbreeve, after maturely considering what ought to be done in the present state of the nation, came to a resolution, entreating their Mem ber, Mr. Brotherten, one of the must prudent and conscientious men in the House of Commons, to join in a political movement, which would relieve the country from its present perillous crisis. The resolution was re eeived most enthusiastically by the inhabitants, both of Manchester and of Salford. The condition of these towns was most alarming. Manufacturers and shopkeepers were dismissing their men ; and the trades of the towns and neighbourhood were in a measure completely suspended. '1 he consequence was that many gentlemen who had formerly pro fessed Conservative opinions now declared that nothing could save the country but an extension of the suffrage to every adult. —( Hear, hear.) He wished it to be known that thousands and tens of thousands in the manufacturing districts were in a state of lively apprehension of the results of dreadful desti tution of the people. They were now making a last appeal to the sympathies or the prudence of the governing classes ; and he believed that if that appeal were made in vain, they would care no more either to the Legislature or to individual Members.—( Hear, In-ar.) The step which they now wished to be taken was that the supplies should be stopped until Parliament had taken some course which would meet the prevailing distress. Mr. RAYNER, of Marylebone, bore testimony to the de cline of trade in the borough which he represented, and in the metropolis generally. Many tradesmen had stated to him that they had nothing, but difficulties to contend with ; that their business was not half what it had previously been, and the little business that was done was carried on ruinously fur all parties. The meeting then adjourned till to-day. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, July 18. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Wool sack shortly after Five o'Clock. Lord COT FENHAM presented a petition from three individuals, praying their Lordships to abolish the law of arrest in execution. Lord BEAUMONT presented a petition from the Guardians of the Easingw•old Union, for out-door relief in certain cases. Lord HATHERTON presented petitions from the colliers in Lancashire, against restricting the age of boys working in mines and col,ieries. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY presented a petition from the females employed in the mines and collieries of the Earl of Elgin, in Fifeshire, com plaining of the provisions of the Mines and Collieries Bill. The Noble Marquis stated that it was his in tention to give the House an opportunity of rejecting the Bill. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE presented peti tions from Lancashire and Yorkshire, also against the Bill. MEDICAL REFORM. The NOBLE MARQUIS also presented a petition from the members of various provincial Medical Societies, praying the House not to agree to any renewal of the charters of the Colleges of Surgeons and Physicians, and the Apothecaries' Company, until the whole subject of medical reform was inquired into. Lord CAMPBELL presented a petition to the same effect from the Edinburgh Medical Association. MINES AND COLLIERIES. Lord REDESDALE presented a petition from the Carron Ironworks against Lord Ashley's Bill. Lord BROUGHAM presented two petitions to the same effect. Lord WYNFORD could not allow the discussion to close, without expressing his sense of the debt which the country owed to his Noble and Learned Friend on the Woolsack, for the great improvements which he had proposed in the present state of the law. Lord CAMPBELL was glad to see his Noble and Learned Friend on the Woolsack bringing in a measure for the alteration of the present system of bankrupt law, than which nothing worse could be conceived, especially as it was practised in the country districts. He could not conceive why a man, not being a trader, should not be allowed to avail himself of the bankrupt laws, as well as a man who was a trader. The non-trader, when he became insolvent, ' was not only liable to im prisonment, and to the surrender of all his pro perty, but then; even after all his suffering, he was not a free man, as the trading . bankrupt was. What rea son was there for the distinction ? Ile therefore :strongly objected to this I3itl, as it left untouched the distinction between an honest debtor, who was insolvent, without being in trade, and one that was in trade. He hoped his Noble and Learned Friend would not press the Bill until he had read and digested the Report of the Commis sioners of Inquiry on Bankruptcy and Insolvency, which was on the table of the House. Ile greatly preferred the proposition of his Noble Friend behind him (Lord Cottenham) to have one judge resident in a district to preside in the County Courts, to conduct inquisitions of lunacy, and superintend commissions of bankruptcy, and to carry out inquiries directed from the Court of Chan cery. The LORD CHANCELLOR explained that the ob ject of his Bills was not to create new Commissions or new Courts, but to modify those that existed. The cor respondence between his Bills and those of his Noble and Learned Friend who preceded him on the Woolsack, was occasioned by the fact, that. both were founded on the Report of the Commissioners of Inquiry. The Lunacy Bill, the Country Courts Bill, and the Bankruptcy Courts Bill were then, severally, read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Friday. The Bills on the table were then advanced a stagv, and the House adjourned at. Ten Minutes to Ten o'Clock MECHANICS' INSTITUTIONS-INCOME- TAX. The NOBLE and LEARNED LORD presented also a petition from Louth (Lincolnshire) Mechanics' Insti tution, praying that mechanics' institutions should be exempted from the payment of the Income-tax, as were scientific and literary institutions. SIGNATURES OF PETITIONS. The NOBLE and LEARNED LORD said that he had tominitted to him for presentation a number of peti tions on the subject of the necessity for a proper edu cation of persons entrusted with the management of locomotive engines. But in consequence of the peti tions being printed on one sheet of paper, and the signatures written on a separate sheet, the rules of the House did not allow him to present those petitions. HOUSE OF COMMOA S, July 18. The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'Clock. The Earl of Devon's Estate Bill was read a third time and passed. TOBACCO REGULATiONS BILL. Sir D. NORREYS presented a petition against certain clauses in this Bill. Dr. BOWRING presented a petition from Bolton against the Bill. Lord R. GROSVENOR presented a similar petition. _ _ _ _ COLLEGE OF PHYSICIANS. Mr. D, BARCLAY presented a PetitTion from five physicians, and twenty-lota surgeons, peaying that no new Charter should be granted to the College of Physicians, or the College of Surgeons, until the whole question of Medical Reform was gone into. POOR-LAW AMENDMENT ACT. Mr. Sergeant JACKSON presented petitions from Mayo, complaining of the ill effects of this Bill, and praying for its repeal. MERSEY CONSERVANCY BILL. The Report on this Bill was brought up, and the Bill was ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. POOR-LAW. An lion. MENtnEu presented a petiti m from some place in the North Riding of Yo r k s hir e , aga i ns t cer tain clauses, and 'especially the apprenticeship clause, in this Bill. asking the Roil. and Learned Member for Bath when the Report which he had first brought up of the Com-. promise Election Committee would be delivered to Aenikers. Mr. ROEBUCK hoped that it would be in the hands of Members by the end of the week. The motion was then agreed to. CHURCH lATEN SION. Mr. HAWES wished to know if the Right Roth Baronet would be prepared to make the statement he had promised on Thursday, with reference to the motion of the Hon. Baronet, the Member for Oxford, on the subject of Church extension. Sir ROBERT PEEL'S recollection was certainly different to that of the Hon. Member, as he thought the Hon. Gentleman had given him notice of his intention to ask some question. But he (Sir R. Peel) never gave the slightest intimation of his intention to volunteer any statement ; he thought he ought to be invited to make some statement by the Hon. Member. Mr. HAWES said the Right Hon. Baronet had promised to give him an answer if the question were repeated on Monday. Sir R. PEEL-- ►t hat was the question ? Mr. HAWES—What the intention of. the Go vernment was with respect to the motion of the Hon. Member for Oxford with reference to Church exten sion ? He thought the House ought to know, as it was a late period of the session, and the subject was one of great importance. Sir R. PEEL said it was not usual to ask without notice a Member of the Government, a fortnight be fore a motion came on,what the Government intended to do with respect to that motion. He certainly un derstood that the Hon. Gentleman was to ask him a question, and he was desirous of giving every informa tion with regard to the course to.be pursued by the Government. The motion of his Hon. Friend the Member for Oxford had been made without consulta- anci he had accordingly been dismiEsc ste a ciee'Aefl h tippoi. - Iked to the situation. tho,..e circumstances the Govt Mr. lent could n, (.;' , i t) that impartiality to 7 - ‘rinen tney nau at too , out,et theii &niter pretended. Again he found Mr. Sergeant Warren aria the present Solicitor- General, when offering themselves 14 the suffrages I of the Dublin University, denouncing as eor rupt arid urigeripturni the National Educa. , . tion system-4A s*sfent for the introduc tion of which Ireland iird§ so Mild' indebted to the Noble Lord opposite (liOr4 Stanley). A vacancy occurred in the representation 6k' DAlin, and what Wat the course adopted by the Getterninent that was pledged to support no party ? This gentle man had concurred in the system of education, and at the time he was put in nomination the Irish Muni , cipal Act was in operation, and the Castle had already selected a Conservative gentleman to fill the the office of Sheriff. How did the popular party act ? They did not ask that a party man should be appointed, but that they should put Sir Ed. Burrough out of office, and that the elec tion should be fairly conducted. Having read - extracts from the memorial presented to the Government on that occasion, he proceeded to say that the Govern ment refused to remove the Sheriff from office as re quested, but the Noble Lord opposite wrote a diplo matic letter to the Sheriff, expressing a hope that the next election would be fairly conducted. This Mr. Sheriff Browne had been in office when the Whigs were in power ; and he had said, if the Government would make him a Knight, he would do any job for them they wanted.--(Hear, hear, and laughter.) This was said in a letter to Mr. Eiffe, in which he stated his determination, let what would happen, to act in all respects in accord ance with the wish of the Government. When tion., He exercised that right which he was enabled the Noble Lord (Lord Eliot) had that - docu- ! to do as an independent Member of that House. ment sent to him, he replied to this effect;—" I re- If his Honourable Friend persisted -in that mo- ceived last night your letter. lam under the neces tion, he (Sir Robert Peel) would take the sity this day of taking my departure for London, but same - course upon that motion which he did last year. Mr. Lucas, in whose hands I leave the document, when out of office. The motion was last year made will lay it before the Lord lieutenant, and give in the same manner as this without consultation, and you his Lordship's answer.'" Now, he thought he (Sir R. Peel) voted in favour of that motion— the Noble Lord might as well, before that was, in favour of the House resolving itself into he left town have given an answer himself Committee to consider the form of an Address to be to the letter. ,To be sure allowance was to be presented to her Majesty on the subject. He told his made for the deviations of men entlitialaatically vir- Hon. Friend then, that he should not resist the motion tuous on their first coming' ittto office. But he would for consideration of the subject, and he should not throw ask, had the Government fulfilled their promises ? any difficulty in the way of the motion by staying Lord De Grey in his answers (and they vvore name away, but he should give his vote in favour of the rous) to the various addresses presented to him from Committee, reserving to himself the consideration of all parts of the country, without, he believed, a single the form of the address to be presented to her Majesty. exception, stated that he was most anxious for the He should pursue the same course in the present ses- impartial administration of justice. Lord De Grey's sion, if his Hon. Friend persevered with his motion. promiseS of an impartial administration of justice He should move that the House resolve itself into a stood out in high relief. But why had his Lordship Committee to agree upon an address to her Majesty, selected that topic ? He appeared to have thought at the same time he should reserve to himself the that there was occasion for those promises. He seemed power of determining the terms "Or that address. to have felt that, with respect to the administration of Pledging himself to fulfil the motion in no parti- justice in Ireland, that suspicions must have cular mode, he would pledge himself on the part been entertained, which it was his duty to negative. of her Majesty's Government to give the address his His Loidship had thought, perhaps not unreasonably full consideration.—(Hear.) If it' were advisable —when a great change had taken place, a vast trans at this very advanced period of the session, and when fer o:' power had taken place in Ireland—when the so many Members had left town, to bring forward Government for the many had been succeeded by the this motion, he must leave it to his Hon. Friend to Government for the few—for the ' iovernment which determine what course it would be most consistent especially attended to the misfortunes of the smaller with his duty for him to pursue. The position in number—his Lordship, then, perhaps, thought it which he (Sir R. Peel) stood now was very different not unreasonable that it should be supposed that fac from that in which he stood last year—for he could tion should find its way back again to the public not vote for this motion as ' a Minister of the Crown tribunals—that jurors would be selected, and judges without being prepared to follow it up as an abstract chosen, upon principles repugnant to those upon measure i and he could not hold out the possibility of an which he meant the laws should be administered, idea that he should be prepared to propose any mea- judges invested with great power—power which, sure this session on the subject, nor could he recoin- if the Noble Lord's (Lord Stanley's) Registration mend to Parliament to make any_ grant of public Bill was passed,' would be greatly augmented. money for the object proposed.—(Hear, hear.) -- -- A judicial partisan was a great calamity. W hen Sir ROBERT INGLIS was not insensible of the he went the circuit what exultation on one inconvenience attendant upon the bringing forward side and what dismay on the other was there this motion at so lat e a p er i o d o f th e sess i on. H e exhibited between parties animated by feelings should not be unwilling to bring forward the mo- of the deepest antipathy towards each other, tion, encouraged as he was by the statement of his when they saw a man clothed with judicial Right Hon. Friend that he would pursue the same authority enter . the Court as judge , who had course on the present occasion as he did when the sub- borne a part in all the civil feuds of Ireland for years ject was last before the House. His Right Hon. Friend - past !—(Cheers.) What did they mean by the impar stated, however, that he would take the subject into tial administration of justice ? Justice to be impartially consideration, and when he (Sir R. Inglis) coupled administered must be administered by impartial men, that statement with the promise of his Right Hon. and when they placed on the bench men distinguished Friend, that he would support the measure now, he for - their political partisanship, he would ask if that thought he should best consult the great interest were a verification of their professions ? Mr. Justice whose cause he advocated, if he consented to leave Johnson had not gone circuit for many years under the matter as it now stood, in the hands of her Ma- the Whig Government. He resigned as soon as the jesty's Government.—(Hear, hear.) Conservative Government had been formed, and MR. FRY'S CASE. gave an opportunity to the Noble Lord opposite to Mr. ROEBUCK stated that he had presented a verify the sincerity of his professions with regard to petition to that House some time ago from a person the impartial administration of justice, and who named Fry, who had been committed to prison by the was the successor selected by the ' Noble Lord . Magistrates of Cheltenham; under improper circum- to show the sincerity of his professions, and to secure stances. He wished to know of the Home Secretary the confidence of the Irish Catholics ?—(Cheers.) If whether any steps had been taken consequent upon the the Government had chosen to elevate Mr. Lefroy to prosecution of that petition. the Peerage, and to let him be engaged in the House Sir J. GRAHAM said he had inquired inio the cir- of Lords in hearing Irish appeals, where his cumstances of the petition to which the Hon. and great learning would have been of infinite service, Learned Member referred. On inquiry, it appeared and where he would not have exhibited any partisan to him that serious irregularities had taken place, and feeling, no complaint would have been heard from he expressed his opinion to that effect. . him (Mr. Shiel). If they had made an exchange, TOBACCO REGULATIONS. and sent an English Judge to Ireland, and Mr. T. DUNUOMBE sa id that he had presented a raised Mr. Lefroy to the English Bench no complaint ! petition that evening from 37 out o f 45 o f th e principal would have been made—if they nad waited until • houses engaged in the - tobacco trade in London, and public feeling had subsided, and had prepared its way he wished to know whether it could be brought on by accompanying the appointment of Mr.Lefroy with that evening ? some liberal appointments, the case would have been The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said different. But they had chosen at once to appoint that his object was to have the Bill read a second time the man who for years past had - been mixed up i that evening, and committed pro forma. Such in every political question by which Ireland had amendments as might be deemed necessary could be been excited. He bore Mr. Lefroy no ill-will. Mr. made at a subsequent stage. .Lefroy could not be hurt by his attacks, or by. the BRIBERY BILL. - defence of the Noble Lord. If he thought Mr. Le- Mr. ROEBUCK said, that as the Bribery Bill of froy would be hurt, his (Mr. Shiel's) lips should at the Noble Lord, the Member f o r Landon, stood. once -be sealed as far as regarded Mr.. Lefroy. ; upon the paper for that evening, and as the Noble He turned from the appointment of the gentleman, to Lord was not in his place, he wished to know who m he had referred, with, he trusted, as little whether any Hon. Gentleman could inform him asperity' as possible in t eating a subject so deli if the Bill was likely to come on to-night, or cate, to the appointment of judges and jurors. whether it would come on this ses s ion. - Of t h e system of appointing juries there were two Sir GEO. GREY (as we understood) said that cases, which he would bring before the House, which to-morrow he should .be able to state when the Bill afforded a strong exemplification. He knew English would come on. men would be surprised that they should complain GOVERNMENT OF IRELAND. of the exclusive institution of juries, and think that On the motion that the House do go into a Coin- the religion of men, by whom they were to be tried mittee of Supply, • for their lives, was of importance; but if ' they Mr. SHIEL said, that having asked of the Noble knew the real condition of that country, they Lord, the Secretary for Ireland, to lay on the table would not be surprised that they should be of the House the correspondence which took place anxious that their lives and property should not relative to the restoration of Mr. St. George to the be surrendered to that class of men who were Magistracy, and that Noble Lord having refused, he ordin irily impannelled upon the juries. The Orange (Mr. Shiel) gave notice that he would move for the institution was dissolved indeed, but its spirit production of the papers, and that he should at walked abroad. It had left influences of a social and the same time venture to impugn' the condtiot of the political kind upon the entire frame of society in Ire- Irish Government, which he thought had departed land, and upon the administration of justice it acted from those engagements which they voluntarily made with a most sinister effect. They might think when entering upon office. He gave public notice of perhaps that he spoke in this matter as his intention, and he' furnished the Noble Lord a mere partisan. He would refer to the with a statement of the chief particulars opinions of an Irish Judge, delivered many years to which he intended to advert. He therefore trusted ago, with respect to the administration of justice in it would not be considered that he had taken any un- t h e nort h of Ireland, but much of which was fair advantage.—(Hear, hear.) Many lion. Members applicable to it at the present time. The thought he had acted injudiciously in bringing for- on. Member then read an extract from a document ward such a subject at this late period of the session, written by Mr. Justice Fletcher, stating that there when the Noble Lord, the leader of the Opposition, had were numbers ofpersons who, Under the assumed name ; left town, and when the Right Hon. the Lord Mayor of Orange yeomen, attended the fairs and markets with of Dublin was obliged to go and attend the duties of arms in their hands, under the pretence of self-defence, his office ; out notwithstanding those disadvantages, b ut i n rea li ty f or the purpose of exciting their op he thought it was not right to let the session go by portents. In a Court of Justice it was sufficient without taking a ' discussion upon the subject. to say that such a party displayed such a colour to He believed that the impression, that the produce an utter disbelief of his testimony ;to another Government of Ireland had acted impartially, was the display of the same party colours instigated erroneous. He thought he would be able to prove murder and larceny. If this system, or its relics, con that, and that, treading in the old tracts o f tinued, they could not be surprised that the Roman Toryism, they would be led to the same consequences Catholics were anxious that persons of their religion to which it led them before. He should go should have a due share in the administration of justice. into ' details which would be tedious, and He remembered that when the Hon. Member for Gates he must intreat the House no t t o listen head attacked the Secretary for the Home Department respecting the constitution of the municipal Magistrates, to him with favour, but to b ea r with hi m with toleration. He would first roceed to the the Right Hon. Baronet insisted, and the majority of the p H ouse—those that supported him—insisted that the due pledges which had been given. The Right Hon. administration of justice required that men of both Gentleman then referred to the declaration made by parties should he placed on the Bench; and the Right Sir R. Peel, that Ireland would be his chief difficulty, Hon. Baronet said that he had modified the exclusive to the declaration of the Noble Lord (Eliot) character of the Municipal Magistrates. If that were true before his constituency at the last election, in their own country—and he knew it was so with i the and to the reply of Lord De Grey to mun:cipal Magistrates—how much more plsn-erthtuel north y orth the Address of the Corporation of Dublin who the observation d applypursued ain t e o n th was .i t u u r t se t on rial for his life 1 stated that in the administration of his Government olift:lnreittlidine that, where oservation with a view to account for "there would be a perfect abstinetwe from all party the ' extraordinary excitement produced in the north of feeling," but notwithstanding those declarations the T ri .re, l an- by the two cases to which he was about to refer. exclusive principle of Toryism remained and existed •rwo men were put upon their trial for the murder of nearly as unmitigat e d as formerly, and as far as Mr. M'Ardle. The course. he (Mr. Shiel) took with the executive was concerned the Act of Ca- respect to that case was this. He applied to Mr. tholic Emancipatio n was not carried out. O'Hara, a gentleman of high standing at the bar, who They had appointed no Roman Catholic to any office was lately distinguished in a trial at Dublin in which of importance. They would not tell him that a per- the Hon. the Solicitor-General was for the Crown, and he (Mr. Shiel) begged o f hi m to g i ve hi m a f a i t hf u l sonal favour had been conferred on Mr. O'Leary by ThetT varnished account of what took place at that trial. the Lord Chancellor appointing him to some office of account he had received frcm that gentleman about 7001. or 8001. a year, or that that was to be lie . would read at full length, as it would give considered as an evidence of the impartiality of the to the House authentic information upon that subject. present Ministry. The nation did not care for The House %mild remember that when the case of Mr. such paltry remunerations; it naturally looked M'Ardle was tried, the verdict was acquittal. The Noble to the high office that tended to exalt the community. Lord expressed his astonishment at that acquittal—the They might say to them, could they expect them to Judge expressed astonishment. The circumstances were appoint their law antagonists; true, they could not, these:—Mr. M'Ardle was a Roman Catholic—some dis but still they might act with justice. What had been p the course taken in 1836 'r Why, i n th a t year they ate arose, and he took refuge in a house. lie was fol lowed by the prisoners, and they demanded his life, and found Mr. Blackburn Attorney-General, and notwith- insisted upon his being given up. A temporary resistance standing the change in the Ministry, he was retained was made, expostulation was in vain, he was sent fbrth in office. Mr. Sergeant Greene was Counsel to the , and was slain. HePir. ;Thiel) Lad a great quantity of Castle in 1835, and w h en t h e Conservatives documents, and the perusal of the , whole of them would came into power they retained Mr. Greene. be tedious.lie was satisfied that the Right Hon. Ba- He wished to ask why it was that, while Mr. Ser- detested the of .1 . 7 juries as much as ronc a t ayal system pac tin b. . _ art, but he -(Mr. Shiel) was afraid that geant Greene, a Protestant, was retained by the what Mr. Burke said long a..-o would apply now. No Government of Sir Robert ' Peel, in 1835, as matter what attention was given by the Gove.rnment to Counsel for the Castle, after he had been Coun- Ireland, so long as the subordinates did not act with sym sel .• for . the Castle under Lord Melbourne—he pathy the Government was attended with dauger anti wished to ask wh it was that Mr. Monaghan, called morning; ••at disaster. This trial was fixed for nine o'clocl: on w t a e s a Roman Catholic at of high standing, that hour a trifi i ir t g ia ca t: had not been solicited, a the late change of Adminis- 1 The on, and a common jury sworn v h . 1 s a e , ~ notice.age tration, to retain his office ? He found this remark- agent of the persons charged would not et ll the eiri —he was content with the Jury in the box. able. circumstance, that the Dublin Evening Mail, a Let them ....et compare that with what took place in the case The is i i3Oble Lord journal to which its party in Ireland was much in- . of Drttse, the Catholic, at Armagh , tiehted, bad denounced the retention of IVir. Monaghan, i o tile Bench gated, • on that occasion, that thvc*geut for , ~,:. ,nry. • •; .er.4tel • us AAA., o, , pi 01, A set aside s , vern -who feel beil _epanelled, for the purpose cludleegieg thew. . 4 Court the next day he urged the neeessity!of those persona; and the Crown Solicitor himselto quested that one of those persons should stauJ the Attorney-General refused to allow any chall e e tehatever.—(Hear, hear.) The statement. t hat I h !;i i was no deeire to challeegt. was certainly a if istake. jury consisted of eleven Protestants feed one tat tbe case went on, and the charge of the Judgt , lva s 41 0 • to be such a one as strongly to induce a conviction 11, writer of this statement to him (Mr. Shiel)' stated Afe. Holmes and himself were counsel tor the 110'r! Mn. Until the very last moment the Attormy-Geli , t hy would not allow the agent to retain them. 't l' itr W ent to the Court immediately they ur;s their briefs, and, when they en tered, - they 1° 0 ! the Jury already sworn. Now , was it right te.itt that the counsel for the next of kin 'Bade no objectilo the jury ? tree, he made no objec tion, but they I'3'4 opportunity.—(Hear, hear.) Th e counsel Were 11 vented from challenging, but the agent for the n e kin, who was the tally pereonin a position to ohjleeto so, but in vain. So much fur that case, tried il , Lotl He would turn now to the case of a Catholic, %,:ecretil put upon his trial at Armagh. ! The case he alu l d be was that of Francis Hughes, a C a :holic, who 11 , 4 0 1de tried three times for murder ; twice t::eiurY Ungoo agree, and upon the third occasion, upon ( . 1 yrOte the jury, it was !build that ten Catholics and t wo ! tants only answered to their names, and several ei fat' were set aside because they had expressed opinions per able to the prisoner. Were such transa awns to L'Al ce tt, mitted The panel was- proceeded with, and th`„,ol! challenged every Roman Catholic until a jury was ' ° ,i , lo l ' Now, how many Catholics had been challetige d. oeto were ten of them on the panel, and every one ° ,'„ s eel; had been set aside.—(Hear, hear.) A jut"' e_,,x c a l re eli Protestant was empanelled to try a man who had "041! been twice tried for his life ; they found '11!v! An expostulation had been sent to the Castle, 4 for mercy ; that expostulation had not been li'tun,;fferei and, protesting his innocence to God, the nine slot'i death upon the scat old.—(hear, hear.) . T he ittd I facts stood thus ;—The man had been twice aecluaeof ten Catholic jurors had been set aside on a trial, and the mutt was found guilty and exe ee j , 'lid not rind that the Attorney-General had 8 1/- tr ,Ce instructions respecting the challenging of .-Nenli-,414W tholic jurors ; but Mr. Brady said that ordinarl:y eans, men who might be supposed to be in atiYt il lel pendant on the friends of the guilty parties, s'` ) „ set aside. This was 'a, most reasonable objee t- ;!eb lr . they might as well call all large wine merchallt!ill,,et cans, merely because they had a spirit license. 1% , 1 ,0 0 ; • the rest were ordinary publicans or nut, he did 11(3. 1e ns but certainly one of them seas of the descripto hi stated. Four of them a ere challenged ; could not guess ; they appeared to he property and independence, and above t i t hele^ littetion cf the lower orders of society. , Archibald Macdonald was employed to build ocj be 0 ' Catholic Church of Armag e h. Three of thenie t : derstood, had been objected to on a former triareVLO of Woods. lie cared not whether such things 'vof)ti by Whigs or To:ies — the system w a s radicallY, 0,5 Ile had concealed n e thing irons them ; he 'WA all he knew on the subject,. Under a termer Ateel' General, whose feeling* were more in ac cordee co , these of -the people, with, two mixej, juries, O cat e!i i tion - took place, but when they exciULi from the jury a conviction was procured , he could tell them, had created a great sensatieni:to,,;', north of Ireland ; the greet mass of the peq,esro not why these men were vet aside, nor had 013%1000t nation been given up to the present. irbeoi Catholic Primate of Ireland, Air. Croly, a man of violent politics, he seldom ' fi t be died with them, he was an opponen t el. 030110 peal of the Union. A petition from such a, oel -dressed to this House on such a subject, deserven,,i'd!::i should have thought would have received, th e ""„leks letan attention. The Government had ttek i t 041 that they had received great assistance from w e . e t ,% Catholic clergymen of the south of Ireland, YOOl, petition had paased the House almost without e ta Dr. Croty said, " a deep sense of wrong' e' 4 11 0 ' pervade the Roman Catholics of Ulster, if the c o ,,e6 l 'i secured them by law was violated, and if WhoW 0, went should make any distinction between ! ,„tiO t ot their Protestant fellow subject." He con f e ss n o , rash—a, worse than rash article—appearedler, Belfast Vindicator, in reference to t his trial,and ney-General lost not a moment in prosecuting t'werei, From the year 1835 to 1841, when the Whigi3eerl power, though the Irish Government was sul '4•l4 lell ," the most virulent invectives, there was nut i c, r it/t secution of the Press took place. Since the ) 7. ; PF I O into power their Attorney-General, Mr. Fraret burne, had distinguished himself as rua",bee alacrity at one time as by his supineness in 11- 0 `,„ : 0,...e Biddulph's case was an instance. That geut l T o sel l ;:i • was a Magistrate, had advised the very Ina " . " 0 :0 he proceeded against, to abscond, and yet 11 *'. pe i° o discharged from the commission of the Pu blic . s ettVe This was a case which appeared in all the lie;Jorll'd and yet Lord lie Grey never heard of it. Bis P„ o poi h ,„l General made no report of it to hint. i r. .," r l e y• 1 ".41 in all the newspapers, and Lord De never read it. (Hear, hear.) Here j i d negligentia. Mr. Blaekburne, within one Li l a' . 00 instituted prosecutions against the Aerery-E-rutois t oo the. Bellast Vindicator. Let them see of '0 course adopted by the Crown in the prosecut,i.°:"tbr, editor of the latter paper. They inighestyPtei Dublin, the majority of householders 61 " 11 ,,', 0 0 ,„ Roman Catholics. that persons of that- proles-..o.,lothe'J not be excluded in pauneling a jury. .ilut'i 4 l ' lll l wise. 'I he process of striktug a jut.) Wu - OP: t ell 48 persons selected, the Crust it Solicitor as . 2 40' 4 ' and the defendant's solicitor 12. The rem ailia l g hl ,is v ; called the reduced list. In the original 48e 09 21;4 sion, nine were Catholics, and on the reduce" one was left, and that too on a proeecutio° : 0 1 1 ( libel in a newspaper cominent.ng on the Armagh, where ten Human Cato ,lies were't", f the jury. For that no reason Vl' ila ",,tre ll :; assigned. That might not appear to them 11' 0 ; P' o it appeared to him (Mr. Shier) to be so. Let,,,lat ,° :) , come to the trial. The Right Bun Francis 1 3 '7, Jte o l and the Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Serge li , l ,otie et o! son), who left Parliament to attend the Unite e .ti elev the prosecution for the Crown. The Attornei,cet said that in that case the truth would be non i t ; e rl i ; Would not go into the facts at ad. Tile t ior r times said that the truth was no defence ; bus elle Attorney-Genera i to say so, was en tii eI Y ranted. There etas one Catholic on the I k ir ,i;en was afraid he approved of this practice, 20 Chief Justice got up and delivt re d his charge , commenced thus :—" 'Was there ever a ''.ores libel than that 7 In my opinion never ; 3 . ' 1 ! to have been an innocent publication. I 3 . 00 , e fi 4 decide that question, but I give you my eP illi t ",„'!! this is a gross and infamous libel, and to„ja.:r mincing the matter.”—(Laughter.) He v` . , ( ?,,, - ,re l " follow the example of the .Noble Lord the '1, 0 0„, for the Colonies, and vote for submitting the r t, c 01 0 ,0! : Baron Smith to a Committee of the !louse of "" ° atel But he (Mr. Shiel) must make one observation C) had f.„llen from Chief Justice Pennefatner• o t 11`,1 Justice Pennefather and the Atterney-G eller fige concurred in saying that the Press had not ° ., 0 4' say anything whatever about the Attorney'Uttell°V (Hear, hear)—no matter how infamous the General might be, no matter how scandalo° his conduct ; if he were a second Jeffries he '`,,. - : 1 0 1 01 be the subject of comment by the Press. BothTh00„0 1 , in stating that the only way of obtaining mite' l ey misdeeds by the Attorney-General was 1 1 0 9. to the House of Commons. He would avail ;ol re that suggestion, and ask for a Committee ei•,0,0,5,00 If the Noble Lord opposite intended to honour plying to him, he would have to enter ie' e rei details, and the Noble Lord would find tha t the rofer of a Committee would be by far the mos t 01 1 00 9 . mode of proceeding, in order to give the hit'' fla General for Ireland the means of reinstating ,0.),, the opinion of the House of Commons.—(Chose for would now refer to the case of Mr. St. Georgttel€,ol4' George had been dismissed from the 3144 0 1•1 9 " It', writing an offensive letter to the Marquis of ',lce 09, When the present Goverment came into -1,10tb,o& Magistrates—not the whole of the Magistrae)„.'d t u incorrect, but six Magistrates—three e w "., o t II,„' a memorial to Lord Normanby, had in 1841 5 ::, r ,',.;11 1 /j Lion to the Marquis of Clanricarde , pray in g George's restoration. Let the House recolleetiod high-minded wan the Duke of Wellingto e ',4 4 that Mr. St. George had been justly diszni os oft7, 0 petition praying for :he restoration of Mr. le 0 the Magistracy, had been forwarded by the 3 ,„ 5 ,1(1, t ` ) t he Clanricarde. The present Chancellor. of Ir e :4 01 1 1 e re' groat honour—(Chet.rs)--although ditreri ri e h ita t' l „. o of Marquis of Normanby in politics, saw ( 10 11 'e 1 ; presentative of his Sovereign, and dernanb e ; 5 01 5 • 11 ,,te apology or explanation should be offered for 1'..eit15,.t'",,r0: the delegate of the Crown before he should be : " ii ! Lord Clanricarde came to the determinall°4o9ll,:e4 ceeding with the charge. An apology v° s o gi c 'rpv Mr. St. George!declared that he re ver No v i u s ',l i ef' apology or explanation. Lord Ciaoricnrue'D Licute nant of the county, did not entei He saw at once that when an apology w 0 original insult was refreshed.—(llear, ii,e%ta was the surprise of everybody acquainte e N '„• 0 101 1, 0 0 . : t tails and circumstances, that although the li r& demanded—that although Mr. St. George ° Ao at peremptory intimation that he would not O ceaut 1 :. 1 0 1 syllable of what he had written — y et the adoliePteltl4 and the Government reinstated bin' 10 the e 0 0 0 lion of justice, whose functionaries , they I, ‘ e r ? 1 1 Vh j should not be selected from party til en pl e bie , (Mr. Shiel) asked the question of the !ce teei l icle he admitted the original o ffence-- - t he log r --4 ve o that offence—the demand fur au aP e G ;•,,,rge, d iet" when made, was refused. Mr. St• ph e ",d e reinstated, and then he add.- d a tr liseone e 4 l) o3el it .,,or A to which the Lord Chancellor and the G°Veithe dePi o e way. The original offence ens no secret:f opop6o for an apology was no ,coot, th e refusal c oi b„ was no et, bet the eisfitifplicution .trusli list - 5 , ought to be divested of its cettelestine eha e f ibe t b milled to the cognizance and judgment e' de taia` i t o efe Commons. He begged parch 41 for havl r 'g col' e House so long. The Right lion. Gentlen:la_ with the motion of which he had given notice. Mr. J. O'BRIEN seconded the motion. o rtun i c Lord ELIOT said he rejoiced that an op_ coo , at length offered for the vindication of,t.ieterthe the Irish Gerternment, and GE showille t n ' dia iou for brought against them were destitute of foun . 00 be t o thy •. pSt/ J Right Hon. and Learned Gentlemen, . 11 a il ' e i s t ach l: c rie h d ,:rK ej Cork, presented a petition to that which the Right I on. Gentleman 0 . 8.3 cr in! that petition the Government of lte ou o f )1'• wit - tampering - the udwiaibtrau &la 1 ii l h x is THE SLAVE TRADE. The NOBLE and LEARNED LORD also presented a petition from the British Association for the Sup pression of the Slave Trade, complaining that Officers of the British Army and Navy were engaged in that trade ; and he gave notice that he would on Thursday, submit a motion on the subject. THE STATE OF THE COUNTRY. Lord W HARN CLIFFE preSented a petition from Leeds, complaining of the distressed state of the country, and praying for relief. The Earl of RADNOR wished to know whether the Government intended to leave the country in its present state, without lifting a hand tbr its relief? Lord WiIARNCLIFFE said that there was reason to hope that a revival of trade would at no distant time afford relief. The Earl of RADNOR said that the people had good right to complain of the indifference of the Govern ment, who admitted that the country was suffering under the most bitter distress, and made no attempt whatever to lighten it. LAW REFORM. The LORD CHANCELLOR then said he had laid on the table three Bills, of considerable import ance, in relation to the administration of the law. The first was an Act for the better regulation of County Courts, the second for the improvement of the Courts of Bankruptcy, and the third for the regula tion of the Six &Jerks' Office. In reference to the Bankruptcy Bill, he must say that, notwithstanding the defalcations of some of the official assignees, the appointment of those officers, under the Act introduced by his Noble and Learned Lord (Lord Brougham) had operated greatly to the advan tage of creditors. The first change which he (the Lord t.hancellor) proposed, was to ex tend the jurisdiction of the Commissioners to one hundred miles from London, instead of forty, which was its present limit. It frequently happened that the County Commissioners were parties to the case upon which they had to decide. Very recently a case came before him in which two of the local Com mis iioners were debtors, and two were creditors to the estate, upon the affairs of which they were called to ad judicate. He proposed to bring all cases of bankruptcy, within a hundred miles of London, under the juris diction of the Metropolitan Commissioners, and to select, beyond that limit, five large towns, in each of which there should constantly sit two Commissioners, to adjudicate on the cases occurring in the surrounding districts. The Noble and Learned Lord then read a memorial presented to him, and signed by 6.50 mer chants, bankers, and traders of the City of London, praying him to bring in a Bill based upon the prin ciples upon which his proposed measure was founded. But the Memorialists also suggested an alteration of the law in respect to imprisonment in execution. He was not prepared to agree to the abolition of arrest in execution, but he had not formed a decided opinion on the subject, and he wished to keep it separate from the clear and simple administrative measure which he now proposed, which ought to be consi dered on its own merits, and not confused by the ad mixture of any doubtful question: The object of the present measure was to extend to the provinces the benefits of a system of which the advantages were as certained by experience in the metropolis. He had also to submit to their Lordships a measure for amend ing the law in respect to lunacy, and all that he had said with respect to bankruptcy applied to the present state of the law in respect to commissions of lunacy. The ex penses of the present system were monstrous, and the Commissioners had no power of remedying the abuse. The fault was altogether in the mode of inquiry. Amongst a number of cases which he remembered, there was one, that of Francis Evans, in which the expenses from the date of the inquisition to the issue of the order of maintenance, covering a space of one year and five months, were 5971., whilst the income was only 201.—(A loud and very marked murmur pervaded the House.) The Noble Lord went into a statement of the expenses in other inquisitions, which he characterised as equally monstrous and unnecessary. He proposed that there should be two commissions. The inquiries which they would have to conduct were, always simple, and never required so much labour or so much discrimina tion as the commonest case of bankruptcy.' He further proposed that the Commissioners should be added to the I body ofinspectors, as constituted under the present law. He had nest to bring their Lordships' attention to the law respecting County Courts. He hud always been adverse to the establishment of local courts. But in every session of Parliament Bills were brought in to establish local courts ; and it was most desirable that all should be reduced under one law. The great evil of local courts was, that with them you must have local judges, and if they be judges without appeal, there would be as great a diversity of law as there was of locality. There was this, besides, to be guarded against, that local judges must necessarily be influenced by local connexions, and this was glaringly manifested in the local courts of France, a.- established by Napoleon.—(Hear, hear.) According to our present law, the county clerk had jurisdiction in eases of debt up to 40s. Considering the change in the value of money, he would make no change in the law, by raising the amount to 51. But he thought that cases of debt up to 201. required, in the altered cir cumstances of the country, a more speedy adjudication than the assizes afforded ; and he would provide for that by the appointment of men well qualified and experienced in Westminster Hall, who should make six or eight circuits in the year, taking care that they should not CORN-LAWS. Mr. VILLIERS presented petitions from Da merham, in the county of Wilts, from the Sabbath school teachers of Silk Mill, in Stafford, from the Baptist Chapel in Shrewsbury, and from Friend.y Societies in Girvan, Scotland, complaining of the distress, and praying for the removal of the tax upon the importation of tbod. _ _ TOBACCO REGULATIONS BILL. Mr. T. I) UN , ;OMBE presented a petition, signed by almost all the great manufacturers of tobacco in the port of London, against this Bill ; also a similar petition from Mr. Rogers, a tobacco manufacturer. NATIONAL EDUCATION (IRELAND. Captain JONES presented a petition from some place in Ireland against any grant to the National Schools in Ireland. • POOR-LAW. Mr. BECKETT presented several petitions from Bradley, and other unions in the parish of Leeds, against the 17th, 18th, 19th, '2oth, nth, and 41st clauses of this Bill. DISTRESS. The HoN. MgMDER, also presented a petition from the Mayor of Leeds, complaining of the distress, and praying the House not to separate till they had devised some remedy. Mr. SHIEL presented a petition from Dublin, against the Four Courts Marshalsea (Dublin) Bill. NOTICES OF MOTION. Mr. HUME postponed his motion relating to Flag Officers till next Supply day. Mr. BANKES gave notice that he should in Com mittee on the Parish Constables' Bill, move a clause providing that all children under a certain age, charged with any offence, should be taken to the lock up houses instead of to county gaols. COMPROMISE ELECTION COMMITTEE. Mr. ROEBUCK brought up the Report of the Compromise Election Committee. PARISH CONSTABLES' BILL. Mr CHILDERS wished to ask the Secretary for the Home Department whether this Bill would be brought on to-morrow, and if so, whether it would be at a late hour? As this would interfere with the Rural Police Act, he thought it was important that the subject should be discussed. Sir J. GRAHAM said it would depend on the progress made in the Poor-law Amendment Bill. It was certainly his fixed intention to proceed with the Bill. The lion. Gentleman was mistaken in saying that this Bill would interfere with the Rural Police Act, on the contrary, this measure would be made ancil lary to that Act. Mr. CHILDERS said it was of great importance that the Bill should be discussed, therefore, if it was brought on to-morrow, he should move that it be re committed. SUDBURY DISFRANCHISEMENT. Mr. LEADER moved that leave be given to Air. Roebuck to plead as Counsel at the bar of the House of Lords in support of the Sudbury Disfranchisement Bill. Mr. HUME seconded the motion. Sir it. iNGLIS would take that opportu n it y of • • kJ; 4,'1111„1 • **4 91/ '4l O 4 1 1111 . ,;', 14, I-- 1. , ~ '44 A.:nv 4 . 1 35, wq! .1. . ' d • ~N.. , 414 ') ‘4 , a 14 1 ,1; 14