The Sun. — London, England, 1824-02-24 00:00:00

NM to know that the House had sanctioned, by a large majority, the votes proposed for the Army and Navy, and he had no rea ton to anticipate a different result when the grant for the Ordnailte came under their' nonsideration. He helietfed every poasible research had been made through all the branches of the 'several departments, in order to diminish the expence as far as was possible, still keeping. the establishments in a state of efficiency for the service. He would next call their attention to the last item of this estimate, which was the miscellaneous service. The amount last year was 1,700,000/. It amounted iii the present to no lent than 2,611,388/. lie was bound to suite to the House the circumstances which had led to this - • increase. He had already adverted to the sum gained to the -.Eachaquer on secount of the Austrian Loan. Ile did not an tac,ipate that the, House would object to avail itself of this up eapected treasure, for the accomplishment or a national pur poae, which it would have been difficult to efKct under -ordi nary circumstances, An Act of Parliament had passed some years ago, to enable certain Commissioners to apply the sum of -1,000,0001. for the purpose of, building churches. That this was a great national object, no man at all anxious for the sup- - pert of the national religion could deny. The proposition had :lever been seriously opposed. That it was right in itself he bad no doubt, and he was confident that it had been produc tive of great advantages in furnishing the humbler classes aith the means of attending divine worship according to the rites of the Established Church, which means, from the large ,iacrease of our population, were wanting before.. He believed that great good had been accomplished, hut much' still remain ed to be done, and he thought a more important service could ' not be rendered those than that which would be effected by ex .. : tending the benetits to the cauntry at large. lle intended to pro poae en the course of the present Session a vote of 500,000/' for - this purpose.—(Hear, hear; and a laugh.)—He was not sur apriacal at the manner in which this intimation was received by one lien. Gentleman, remembering how the subject had been treated in that quarter before; but, nevertheless, he expected -the House would be perfectly willing to sanction the grant -whenever it would be his lot to move it.—(Hear !)—There was another purpose to which he proposed That a part of this sum . should be applied. lie alluded to the most desirable and proudest residence of our Monarchs—Windsor Castle. He believed that the people in this country who loved Monarchy—Constitutional allonarchy he meant, took pride in seeing the regal state of the Sovereign properly maintained, and they would not feel it at aall inconsistent either with their interests or their feelings, -that a portion of the money received on account of the -Austrian Loan should be applied to embellish that noble and venerable structure.—Windsor Castle.—(Hear, hear !) It was.not the wish of his Majesty, nor was it that of Govern ment,'that money should be thrown away, but in the first in.. stance he must state that great and expensive repairs were ab solutely necessary. It however undoubtedly appeared to Mini - sters that some alterations and additions were necessary to be made to the building as well as to the dorriain which en circled it. So far from the money thus to be applied being 'thrown away, as an Honourable Gentleman opposite seemed -to think likely, his Majesty did not wish to direct the alterations himself, nor to have that duty entrusted to any -individual Member of the Government ; but it was pro -posed that a Commission should be appointed for the pur pose, the Members of which shoukl not be selected with re . ..ference to party, and thus they would ensure the application of the money , in a way that would do theth and the country honour. To this purpose he proposed to appropriate the• sum -of 180,0001. in the present Session . , - and as much more in the .two following yearn, so that the whOle thus to be expended should amount to 300,0001. In the course of the debates which took place last year, in consequence of the grant of his Ma jesty's library, on the subject of erecting a building to rec e ive at, he thought a very general feeling prevailed in the House, ,that in the present circumstances of the country it would not be well that they should be niggardly in what concerned the Arts. As a matter of money, objections might be made to a arrant connected with them. But, looking at their intimate • ,connection with all that went to ennoble man's nature, it ' seemed to him consistent with the dignity and true interests of the country to give as much encouragement to the Fine Arts as they could, and especially as they had a fund at their com mand from which this could be done without encroaching upon the resources of the country. The Government particularly felt this a short time ago, when they were offered a collection of magnificent and valuable pictures, that it would be highly conducive to the character of the country to embrace such an opportunity of laying a foundation for a grand National Gal lery of the great works of art. Accordingly a negociation was opened with the executors of the late Mr. Aagerstein, which • ended in the purchase of these Pictures, at the rate of 57,0001. — He had not the smallest doubt, but that if such an institution had existed in former times, the liberality of individuals would have furnished it with as beautiful specimens of art as could he found in any other part of the world. He knew there had beetrcases where individuals had been desirous of doing so, an easy matter to grapple - with a mischief of such magni tude, but they were bound to, do every. thing in their power towards relieving it. He proposed therefore to use a portion of this surplus in commencing a system of alteration in the fiscal -and Ccimmercial regulations of- the cenntry. • He be lieved that it would 'he productive of immense benefits to the. country, and if persevered in, as. he should recommend, he had no doubt bur that at the termination of the four years, over which he had calculated it to .extend it would leave every branch of its: resources in a more.. flourishing Condition than it now was. The firstpropositlen he intended to stibutit, was one which had already incidentally occupied the attention of the House. , The Committee would recollect, that at an. - early period of the Session, when he prorfds - enliFinnu al dti tier upon foreign spirits' a question was asked him as to any reduc tion on the duty on ' Rum being intended; and the Hon. Mem er fer,Bristol; and the Hon. :Member for Aberdeen' intianated an intention of bringing up a resolution w'ith the report ; he then thought that such was not the ,best-mode- of .proceeding, and that if any of the duty on Rum.was to be reduced, it was better to make the reduction on the permanent duty, and not upon that which was annual. lie gave no answer to the ques tion, because he thought it 'trot 'consistent with his duty to ex plain at that particular period what' 'were the views of Go vernment, and not because he wished, to act discourteously to those Honourable Members. It was his intention to do so, to reduce the permanent Duty on Rum, as to relieve the trade from one of the inconv e ni enc i es under which it now laboured. He proposed to place the duties on rum on the same footing as the duties now paid by English spirits:— He proposed to take off ls. 10. per gallon to effect that equalization. He was aware that the mode of taking the 'strength of the rum might prevent their coming exactly to this result. But it should be remembered that English spirits paid the malt duty also, which he thought fairly ba lanced the account. He knew not whether this reduction of duty would have any effect upon the dealings in rum, but he knew it was adopting a sound principle, and,at all events it was a matter of fairness to give the agriculturist of Jamaica that relief which their distress entitled them to expect. He calcu lated that this reduction would cost the .revenue. 150,0001. The next article upon which a reduction was proposed, was one of which they had heard a great deal . that night. They had heard a great deal from the worthy Alderman, the Mem , ber for the City of London, who had pressed very strongly and very naturally the severity with which the duty he was about to mention was felt by his constituents--he alluded to the duty on coals. It was necessary, however, for hint to explain hiinself, because the first suggestion which his declaration might convey was, perhaps, that of the reduction of the whole duty. But that was not his intention. They had heard from the Honourable Member for Staffordshire, and from others, objections made to the diminution of the duty. He could not admit, that because. interests . had grown up .out of duties which it had been found necessary to impose, that therefore those duties should never be touched. That argument admit ted, the system of our finance could never be improved. What they ought to do was, to revise the system, and guard against getting again into the difficulties we had experienced. If the duty on coals pressed with severity on particular parts of the country, where it amounted to six shillings on the chaldron, the impost was particularly severe on London and its vicinity, where the duty amounted to no less than nine and fourpence, He proposed to take off three and fourpence, and at the same time to remove the existing restrictions. on the importation into London of inland coal by canals or by the Thames. At present no inland coals could come to London by the Thames without paying a duty of ten shillings per ton or chaldion, he knew not which, but the duty amounted to a prohibition.— Coals brought by canals paid a duty of seven and sixpence, and only fifty tons could be admitted,—(Hear!)— This was a most absurd and unmeaning restriction.—(Hear, hear !)—He could not for his soul see the use of it, while coals imported to Lon don were saddled with the charges he had mentioned. But giving up above one-third of the duty upon sea-borne coals, he could not see any grounds for limiting the importation of in lend coals. That this would be beneficial he could not doubt. It would diminish the power which some individuals exercised to enhance the price of coals by proportioning the supply to the wants of the consumer. The coal owner might have a right to do this, but the Government had also a right to say to the consumer, we will give you an opportunity of getting a sup ply from another quarter. This he calculated would increase the consumption both of inland and sea-borne coals, so that the reduction of duty would not be so great as might at first be supposed. The reduction in the first instance would be 200,000/., but the real presumable loss to the Revenue he took at about 100,0001. In the early p ar t o f wh a t h e sa id, h e had alluded to the liberal policy lately act e d upon i n matters o f Commerce. That policy h e wished t o see f o ll owe d up. 'Vari ous branches of our trade were at present fettered ; on th e one hand, with hi g h duties, and, on the other with restrictions of a directly opp os it e t e ndency. Among them was th e article wool. As the law now stood the duty on the importation of foreign wool was sixpence per pound, having originally been no more than a penny. The high duty was imposed in 1319 G A il . , . - p p S' =- , P 4 et .1 • . 5 . 2 , et , 3 FT* 1,0 C 0 0 (.2 CR ..d1 CR C 75 :=0 . 0 CG R ..p ., 5 = 0 CR -+ CCO . 0% od 6, c - ,V, 00 000 o o CP An -, M n n C4i 4ln 4,.. 1 , : -.1 :1 - 1..% CAS 0 C% Oi ...4 0 al. 0 Cd , 00 tO PI 00 0 ..^ .0 C' C. 3 00000 4.• =OOO t" ti s. ---./ not as a protection; for our trade, but for the improvement of and . there. was now one high-spirited personage, whoile-col told that section indicated the finest taste, and whose liberality in re- atFece-,13 SeS the revenue. But the party o p pos i ng Of CD OCZ ,P. e ' 2 they ought not to complain, so long as there was a prohibiting Bard to it was well known, ready to make that offering to his leelee'ceSee.. Se' duty by which the wool-grower was confined to the cohsump country. And' when such an institution was established, C.7.C , 00= C:30000) lion or this country, to the that duty was and that when they consented f.nglishmen, while gazing upon its contents, would have the In these calculations he for the most part took the income of removal of these restrictions, we will then propose the re proud satisfaction of reflecting upon the fact, that they were peal of this duty. After Mud; discussion the majority of those the country at what it was now, b u t it requ i re d some ex lava- inter es t e d in the question had acceded to this compromise, and not composed of the rifled treasures of plundered places, or the spoils of violated altars. The sum proposed would be tion why, after stating that he id not look for a large increase in consequence it was intended to reduce the duty on 60,0091. to effect this object. If the House sanctioned the in the consumption of excisable articles he should make the Fo re i gn W oo l f rom sixPeh ce to one penny, and to allow a f ree expenditure he had thus proposed, there would be a remainA e ng, years 1826 and 1827 give an' increase under the head of Excise exp ort o f E ng li s h Wool wit h merely a duty of one penny s u rplus u p on th e two year s , amounting to about 2 ,7 63 , 0 0 u" over the present estimate of 200,000 e, He had said that to make it equal. Their sweeping away of these restric- But before he proceeded to explain to the House the view which the improvement already made i n th e collection promised an tions, h e was confident would prove most beneficiah to the Government took of the mode in which that surplus should increase of 50,0001. There were other items which inter- grower and manufacturer, and he looked forward to abet great be rendered available, he felt it his duty to bring under their cepted the Customs in their progress ; he alluded. to those extension of our wollen trade as the certain consequence. eensideration that which most materially related to the Act be- bounties which had been granted for a number of years, and The inmiediate loss to the revenue he took at 350,000/. The fore the Committee. The Committee were aware that the state which it had been customary to renew at various periods. next proposition to which he should call the attention of the of üblic credit was such as very much to reduce the interest Be particularly called the attention of the House to the Committee, was one which appeared to him of peculiar impor of money; and looking to the situation in which the counts Y bounties on th e Whale Fishery, which would expire next twice, as it related to the restrictions on the trade in silk. At stood with regard to her foreign relations — when there were no year. He held it to be utterly useless to call on the country present the Committee were aware that a high duty . was im visible grounds, and as far he believed no invisible grounds— to give 50,000/. for such a -purpose as this, though a large posed by law on the raw material, and there was a positive pro upon which that situation was likely to be changed, it became sum compared with the whole capital rrquired to carry on hibition on the use of any silken article of foreign manufacture. the duty of the Government to endeavour; to avail themselves a whale fishery - was so trifling that the granting ofit could an- On the last occasion when this subject was discussed, lie had of the low rate of interest to effect a reduction of that branch swer no good purpose. The other Bounties he would deal with asked what advantage would they promise themselves from keep of expenditure which allowed the high rate of four per cent. in the same way were those for curing herrings, enc. These ing up thisprohibitory . duty ? What good, he would now inquire., The - amount of the four per cents. was about 75,000,000/. It : 1 m.gat be very well years ago when our he rr in g fi s h er y h a d y e t could they discover arising from its operation, either as it re was necessary, in the first place, for the Government to consi- to get a reput a tion that would enable it to make its way in the garded our interest with foreign nations, or our manufactures der how the law stood with yespect to this stock. This was a markets of the world. Such was no longer the case. From at home ? There bad Prevailed for some time, on the part of thatn as the law respecting it differs essentially from the attention paid to our fisheries those engaged in them were the most eminent statesmen and the most distinguished writers that poi n t, cy had to consider when reducing the 5 per cents now capable of entering into successful competition with on political economy, an °Pinion that the prohibitory system There had exised no obligation to give any notice to the holders their ancient enemies, the D u t c h • a nd under th ese c i rcum- on w hi c h our commer ce h a d h eretofore been conducted was of that Stock of th e i n tention of Government t o p a y it off. In stances, he thought poli c y requ i re d that the bounties in titles- impolitic. In consequence of thi s p ersuas i on measures were consequence of this it was competent for the Government to don - should be left to die a n a t ura l de a th. On these heads a now in progress for end to many of the restrictions take the course which was taken and to declare that all who saving of 70,000/. would be effected. There was another which had formerly been deemed necessary. Were they now at the end of four weeks should Clissent from the option given class of bounties which, though he was sensible they were to stop at the point which they had reached ? If they were to them of taking four per cent. instead of live, should be paid impolitic, be still thought it desirable to touch them with a do so, what would foreigners say of the principle on which off. In that case it was very easy to require the dissent of the delicate hand—he meant the bounties on linen. Every thing England acted ? Would they not say, that while we met them putting an in our mouths, we hated libe parties, and there was no necessity at all for their assent. By connected with the industry of Ireland ought to be approached with professions of liberality the Acts of BentParliam w hi c h es t a bli s h e d th e Fo u r per Cents. with great caution, as much as the evil to be deplored in ralitY in our hearts, and that we had no object in view but th e Governm e nt strained from paying them off; without this country was occasioned by want of employment for to cajol e them into receiving our manufactures, while we giving at least six months notice. If, then, they applied the the poor. He was anxious therefore to touch this subject were resolute to exclude them from all benefit on which would not be held. When any principle of dissent, sir months mint elapse- before' Ministers with great tenderness, but at the same time he could not they _mi g ht fairly calculate in return? It was impossible to could know what portion of m o ne y wou ld be necessary to pay shut his eyes to the inutility of these bounties. The Com- believe that such language off the dissentients. It was th ere f ore proposed to• give notice mittee he thought must see that if we gave bounties to meet the Foreign Power imposed a new duty on imported merchan -to the holders of :ou r per Cent. Stock, that after six months duties imposed by other countries, we in effect invit e d tho se dine, minist e rs were immediately applied to in various guar they would be paid off. But it was intended to.offer 4 0 all countries to raise their dutie s t o t h e amount of our bounties. ters to interfere, and called upon to remonstrate against a who in the course of six wee k s s h ou ld consent to rece i ve 100/. We ought not to assume that we were th e on l y country in the course so hostile to the best i nterests of England. What f01.._ three and a half per Cent. st oc k i n li eu o f 100 - fours, should wor ld possesse d o f common sense. Other countries, it ought lowed ? The Ambassadors to such Powers were directed to have the assurance that their p roport i ons o f t h at s t oc k should to be supposed, could see their own interests as well as we call the attention of the Government near which they resided not be paid off for five years. Those who did not :avail could see ours, and this considered, the Committee would to the circumstance, to point out to them that the impost corn themselves of this offer, were li a ble t o b e p a id off in Octo- agree withhim that such bounties were not only not beneficial plained of was injurious to British interests and wore an un bar next. One third of the whole, supposing none to 'as- but mischievous. On the lower coarser kinds of linen, that friendly character. What was the c ons equence ? Th e Ambas sent, would then be reduced, and only fiSty millions of fo ur a b out seven-pence, he proposed that the bounty should sador was told that England imposed high or prohibitory duties . per Cents. would remain, .Supp os i pz opeet hi t g o f the holders, immediately cease. The bounty on the exportation of on the merchandise ot' this country, and must expect that simi le assent to the plan, then on e -fl ar e o f the holders 'of the finelinens he would reduce 10 per cent.' in successive - years lar measures would bead opted by them. In every such case remaining fifty millions would be p a id off in October. in till the whole should cease, and by the termination of these the Ambassador was discomfited, and forced to give up the one ease, that of one-third of the whole being paid off; the bounties a saving of 100,000/. would be made, while far from point ; for he would defy the wit of man, under such eircum - sum of twenty-five millions would be wanted ; in the other, doing harm by effecting it, he was confident that nothing but stances, to answer satisfactorily his argumentant ad kominem, supposing one-third to assent to pay off one-third of the dis- good would be experienced from the change of system. lie and justify the call made for the abandonment of the impo sentients, between 16 and 17 millions would be neeessarY. He had said he would not calculate on no' increased consumption sitions objected to while our own system of exclusion was proposed giving diem the option which he had mentioned of ex- of Exciseable articles. He was by no means of opinion that maintained. In such a course there was no soundness, and changing a three and a half per cent. stock, with a proviso that it an increase could not take place, but he thought it prudent not he was convinced that they ought to take the opportunity should not be paid off for 5 years from October next, in order to to calculate upon it, lest disappointment - should be the conse- when it offered, and never could a fairer opportunity after • bring that stock to the same period now allowed bylaw for pay.; quence . With respect to the estimates of the years 1826 and than that which now presented itself for revising the coin ing the existing 3 and a half per cent. stock. The holders, he 1827 he thought it would not be too sanguine. It had always mercial policy of the country. It was time to cut those thOught, would be dealt hardly with, if som e advantage were been supposed that the Chancellor of the Exchequer could pro- cords which had hound Commerce to the earth, and let not given to those who accepted the offer of Government—= duce what results he pleased on paper. He, however, was not her spring aloft, that the blessings of a free tr a d e m i g ht b e And he thought it better to satire them front b e in g p a id off disposed to indulge extrav agan t h opes , an d h e therefore took diffitsed all over the world—(Hear, bear !)—There never was for five years, than to give them any thing in the shape of a the expenditure, at the same, though in same instances i a time at which such an attempt might be made with gre oer bonus, as that would interfere with the Sinking Fund, or make might be expected that the course of mortality would reduce advantages, under which the experiment could be tried at the it necessary to add to the nominal amount of the debt. 'With some of-the burdens which we had now the pleasure of bear- present moment, when our commerce was daily extending regard to persons out of the kingdom, he wished the fame ing in the provisions made for those who had deserved well of in every direction, while our capital remained so great that • time to be alloweti to them as in the case of the reduction their country. The result then of his calculations was, that our trade, vast as it was, proved insufficient to absorb it, 'of the Five per Cents.' The result of turning the whole lie calculated there would be a surplus in 1823 of 1,052.076/., and means were still wanting to give it full em pl o y men t.— into three and half per cent. in th e n e xt or f o ll ow i ng y ear , exc l usive of the 5,000,000/. applied to - time reduction of debt. This then was the time for starting on anew course to augment would be to save one half per cent. on th e w hol e t wen ty-fi ve He expected— the wealth and prosperity of the country, and it was on these . . emillions of debt, being an annual amount of 375,000/. If I n 1 824 -- . £ I 1,052,076 In 1825 - - £477,346 grounds th a t h e h a d b roug h t f orwar d t h at propos i t i on w hi c h h e Parliament should sanction this measure, he would call on the In 1825 - - - 372,346 Is 1826 - - - 522,346 had no w to off e r. B u t, b es id es w h at h e h a d urge d , t h ere were Committee :o accompany him a little f a , rther, to see in what Adding these together, he came to the conclusion that at the other grounds on which the policy which he had recommended situation the nation might be expected to stand at the close of end of 1827 they would give a surplus of 4,135,099/. Then might be preferred. Was it not known, that with all the guards the year 1827. He wished to carry the attenti on of the House came the question of what they were to do with i.t.—(A which had been devised to exclude the manufactures of other to that period—not that he flattered himself it would be in his laugh.) He thought they might do a great deal of good with it ; nations, they still found their way into this country ? Whatever power to state with any great degree of prophetic precision and he thought they ought to do so, and he thought he should the means used to keep them out, all had been evaded. He what would actually be our condition then—but in order to find a ready support in the House, in endeavouring to find remembered the Honourable Member for Aberdeen had last chew what it might be if the country should so long remain the most advantageous way of doing so. The most obvi. year display e d his B a nd ana handkerchief in that House. He at peace, with the advantage of the provident cure of Perna- ous and easy mode of applying surplus, was to the re- had raised even within these walls that standard of smuggling, went to watch over the surplus revenue a nd expenditu re of the deletion of debt. But no man could look to the state of had used it when blowing his nose, and then returned it in safety - country. He would shOw what situation we might be in at the our Revenue, or to the consequences which followed from to his pocket. The Hon. Member, doubtless, was aware-of it ' period he had nomed, in the case supposed. Should the unfor- that accumeilated weight of taxation which had grown up before he had taken the liberty to mention it to him, that by hinate contingency of war occur, that of course would derange with the system, without seeing that it was the obvious duty of law there was no other Gentleman sitting near him who had his present calculation, and Parliament would then; as on all the House to take every occasion of revising that system of not a right to take that handkerchief away from the Honour former occasions, appeal to the spirit of the country, for that taxation, in order to place the gener a l commerce and industry able Member, and export it to a foreign country. This the law exertion which might be requisite to carry us through the diffi- 'of the country as much out of its reach as possible. It was not would authorise, but was the law acted upon ? Certainly not ; culties we should hare to encounter. The Hon. Gentleman then stated from the following document, in detail the calcula tion which he had made : A STATEMENT of the Income and Expgmliture of the Year 1823; together with an Estimate of 'he Revenue and Ex penditure of the Years 1324, 1825, 1026, andlB27 ; ing Arrears of Duties repealed, Extraordinary Resources, and Special Grants proposed to be made in' 6onsidertition of them. INCO3I - E. ac Ig E. ET. tnp max Ti g • g :410'c - ing 6 ° 4 3 80 S a av 7:2; I I l I I I C. .... 4 1., .1:74 CI b 2 I I 1Z I 1 i i 1.-. 42 tt , • r ---- '' 'IS .- • 4° =". 5. - 4 ; 1 ° ' P GJIO ,11 0.4 t.. 2 ria C7B 7: N. N 2 G 73 t. Cr , Ct. 4 O •-• 0 0 IOIC g I ; .4 0 I CO Pa 14 P Pa 2 ..• V. .....I ~. 1:11. 1.. 0.4 ill, et CO ,-. ,d 1.• C. 7. C. 7, cyt t.o"'' , -- , 51 . 1.11.) 0 , 173 .....1A . 1.- ,.. 0017 , C''' 2 es = . ts., "O C) G 3 O' c-- t 3 Co ..," !... 0 I 10 -•— • COO 0000 010 ...-1 t..: -, 5 000 .S. 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There was no "end to the ingenuitydisplapet ction with proceed ' jogs of this so:14;c hut it was not -• ,in. nuisy titat was ex ercised, for something worse fol , and perjury and viq lenee closed the'seene. The evil ". tt stop where it begun— there was a sort of progenieilivitiosfrieem in the practice. The House would recollect Nerno repentefteit turpissimus, and hi the case of smuggling, a young man begun by bringittgpver a piece o"f sal , perhapstiiterid - ed fork present to a female friend. This : was a thing which might be regarded as innocence itself, and almost laudable. But the law made it a crime. `Yuen a man begun to do that which the law so regarded, he frequently acted - in the way lie had supposed. But he could not effect his pur pose -without deceit. The taking of. .a false - oath then - Vecame familiar to his mind, and having commenced sr9ugglq to make a present, it soon occurred to_ him that the art thus acquired might be turned to his advantage. He then ventured to smuggle on a larger scale, intrOduced'a variety of goods, and eventually became a great speculator. The consequence of this course being taken by many individuals was, that it at, length be ' came necessary to maintain a navy for the protection of the re ' venue. This could not be done without, and battle's and blood shed not unfrequently occurred, and that' in a great measure through .the fanciful idea taken up that the,prohibitionS to which he had directed the attention of the .Honse were neces sary to protect the silk manufacturers. of tare country. OUr silk manufacture had so greatly improved, that with a reduced, duty . on the raw material we could now meet any, utter coun try in the foreign market on -a footing of equality. It was • a time, therefore,' to throw down this hollow, gilded :dant' ima ginative protection, and erect ',tin its pedestal the statue of commercial liberty. We derived great. advantages from our means of obtaining raw silk from the East Indies. It was. curious to know that our cotton manufacturer had.superseded in a great measure the original manufacturers, *of,gotton in - the East Indies. By taking. off the duty op the importatin of silk, we should greatly benefit .ourselves by giving the inhabi tants of the East Indies greater means of purchasing our coin modities. He proposed then to reduce the duty on raw, silk from five and sixpence to' sixpence ; and Oa the raw silk frtan China and Italy from fourteen and tenpence to seyen and six pence; and all prohibitions upon silk Jnanufa'eturett goods to be withdrawn, he.hoped for ever. He would,then substitute a duty on plain silks of sixteen shillings, on, figtired twenty shil lings, and on all other goods an ad-linloreni duty of thirty pe r cent. Shoes, gloves, and articles of that sort, which every body knew were not kept out at all, he would admit upon pay.. ment of the duty of thirty per cent. He did not say that this scale ought to ,be liable to no variation, but that would be matter to be considered in future. The defalcation which this measure would cause in the Revenue, he estimated at 462,0001 The reductions, then, would stand as follow : , e the manufactu rers o f thi s country against ' which it war , iris" . reserve himself an until nli x these them came all up more in the dicussion possible for them to compet e . A s to a better mode o f dos' posing of surplus: upon. different articles, he wou ld v tlle of that them,eser e night. The roost incredulous, he thought, must now be cel vinoed of the eminent advantages proceeding from a due adhs renee to the support of public credlo--( Hear !)—lle believed, hadeed, that an opposite sentiment hid never assume d a shape more weighty th an t h e h uzzaing of a few senseless people a t public meetings. Th ose w h o d esired to see areduction o f the debt of the country might now 'perceive how that was to he ac complished by honest means, and that it never could be done otherwise. The Country Gentlemen, who, to do them justice , had never advocated principles of this sort, must, with satis faction, see that the same causes had led to a reduction of their burthens. We were without doubt daily recovering . front the disastrous consequences of the confusion and. dislocat lo a - Of interest which•succeeded the late war. But this was not ° be considered as affording; any justification for the s y s tem of paper currency resorted- to during the war;' foe they had not righted themselves but at the expence of the fortunes of thousands.--( Hear ! ) —Amongst agricultural classes this wa s particularly obvious —many of that class, formerly in affluence' now were to b e f oun d a t t h e miserable occupation of breakieg stones in the roads. Never, lie believed, had any civilized country gone through so .00mplete a revolution of property 35 this had. • The CHANCELLOR 'of the EXCHEQUER explair d that he had not, in estimating the Revenues of other years, as eumed any increase from the increase of consumption in those articles which were relieved from the drawback of taxation. 1.4 ' had not even done this with reference either to the Excise or Customs. Neither had he made part of his estimate what bee e should have been fully entitled to do, viz. some increase 0 f revenue arising from the reduction of the Assessed Taxes last year, which in a few.years might certainly be expected to tdiew itself. And in looking to the four years to. come, he la d not supposed any other reduction than what must necessari/ take place in so large a charge as that for pensions. But if O' country continued at peace, the pensions would really be capable of a far greater reduction than ho had assunied•—• Pe had in the estimateas he had presented, thought it b e tter assume increase of diminution front none but• natural sources, not open to the oyeration of extraordinary causes. But, he had• always considered, that if he should be disappointed, Parlia ment would by .a vigorous effort make up the deficiency.* whatever it might be. Tnus, he hoped, he had sotisfied the Hon. Member for Taunton that he was not in danger of meet tng any casualty which might produce' a failure of the nature he apprehended. . . Mr. BARING did not feel satisfied with the explanation of the Right /lon. Gentleman. He had received 'no satisfaction, on the subject of the project for paying off the four percents' If the country were called upon for 24 millions in October next, for that purpose, it would be with great daneer to the finances if there should b e war; an d t h e danger would be too great ii , they had not war. . . . Mr. ELLICE concurred with his Honourable Friend (111 r. Baring) in thinking they had bett e r reserve a n y op i n i ons t h e / might have on th e details of the statement which they heard for a future opportunity. Ile wished, .however, to ask a question in which he felt interested as representing 'a town more largely concerned in the Silk Manufactories than any - other in the kingdom. He understood the Right Honourable Gentleman proposed to reduce the duty on silk s i mme di ate l y , If h e did so, he was afraid it would be productive of the greatest Vs' sible distress to the whole population of the great manufactur ing district to which he had. alluded. He agreed with him fn thinking that ultimately this duty should be removed, but g reat care must be taken to guard all manufacturers from looses upon stock in hand. Even within the last week large orders had beg given for silk, upon which great loss must accrue if care wer e not taken. He suggested that it would be better not to press any such resolution that night, but postpone it to a future occasion. ' %Ir. MABERLY agreed with the Hon. Member for Twin ton, in thinking that the case of the Ri g ht H on . G ent l emen w as weak as regarded 1824, because the surplus of the present Yea r had been made up by 1,500,0001. of Austrian Loan. It was not, however, in his view, weak as they travelled on—on the CO'' traryoit appeared to him that it was a-eery strong case although the lie mutes Hon. Gentl eman h a d not ma d e t h e most of it. mutessay, indeed„ that the Right Hon. G en tl eman had through' out the whol e o f hi s statement d welt with extreme fairness vat: the Bouse. He h a d not ant i c i pate d w h at every man had a r i g "' to assume, viz. —that the reduction of taxation would have th e effect of very much Increasing the estimate. He was not calle" upon then to say, with reference to the luminous speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman, how far he approved of all the talc° proposed to be reduced. But he could not deny that commer ce . p s l t i e e d w n thea disposition recommendationto improve h e h a i ( n i ever y would receive great benefit from the removal of those taxe s which pressed upon the springs of trade. In this way, ",' extending such sound principles, the Right Honourabtf e G v e e n r : l possible way the interests of commerce. He wished, how' Gentleman he e had liad ev a e d r o him lust year, to make his whole collection on malt, and o e " at all upon beer. By this course he would save 280,0001. s ; ___ e. year, and remove a source of great oppression from the low,e, £7, 3oo ,trau classes. He alio thought that in the management of the Fow l " • t It must he gratifying to the House to see the country in its pre- Debt, if the Charier of the Bank would admit of it, a go a . sent state, with an i ncreasing revenue, diminished taxes, and a saving might be made. H av i ng g i ven t h e Ri g h t Honoura b/t debt in the cou rse o f being gradually reduced. It must be Gentle Man cre dit wh ere h e d eserved it, he could not pass o ver „ highly cheering to mar k t h e increase o f nat i ona l wea l t h , o f i n- hi s errors. lie had hoped th a t some p aper would have been fluence and power, --of power fixed not for the purposes of am- laid on the table of the House, to thew the result of the ur i : bition or aggrandizement, but ready promptly to vindicate our profitable bargain he had last year made with reference to t e ll; honour, and defend th e i nterests o f t h e s tate . Th e i n fl uence we P ens i on: He had made a calculation which showed that at( enjoyed was produ ce d b y t h e manner i n w hi c h our wea l t h an d country b ad lost 1,695,000/. by that ruinous bargain ; and i f power were employ e d which had rendered them the pl e d ges o f .th e y t oo k t h e f un d s a t par t h e l oss would be 2429,000'. 'fl' s tedfast friendship and not the menacing instruments of tyranni- bargain the Ri g ht Hon. G e ntl eman h a d made in pursuance of ° cal aggression. That the country had been brought to this happy system a ga in s t which' he had been amply guarded by his side state, he ascribed not to the Government, still less to himself, of the House : for they had divided at every stage of it. Ir y but he claimed the merit of accomplishing it for Parliament,— d ee d, a f ter w hat they had heard fall from the Right Hon. Gen' for that calumniated and vilified Parliament, which th e y h a d tl e m an th a t night, h e cou ld never believe that he had taken tha t been told was so vicious in its construction, that it was utterly step with the approbation of his own understanding. • impossible, unless every thing connected with it were changed, Sir JOHN WROTTESLEY asked, Exchequer what was the exac t for the country ever to be raised f ro m the difficulties under rate of duty which th e Ch ance ll or o f t h e meant to which she once la boured. —(Cheers.)—He hailed with unmixed leave on Inland Coals. A part of his C ons ti tuents would be sa ti s f a ction this practic a l re f utat i on o f t h e ca l umn i es to which very glad of that information. He should also be glad 'to b e he alluded, while looking aro un d th em t h ey saw b ut sm ili ng informed in what manner the Right Hon. Gentleman meant t° plenty, freedom, and independ ence , w hil e prosperity and order se l ect t h ese holders of Four per Cent. Stock, whom h e Mean" , went hand in hand, still receiving unnumbered benefits from to pay off oin October next to th e amount f 25 000 000/ being the sacred portals of the ancient edifi ce o f our Constitutional only one-third of th e w h o l e . „ ~ Monarchy, for a happy, united, an d grate f u l people.—(LoudThe CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that his and long continued cheering.) idea, with regard to the reduction of the duty on silk was, te e He then moved a Resolution relating to the amendment of it might commence on the sth of July next. He conceived W s " the Four per Cents. Act. that would be an interval sufficient to enable the manufactur e : l Mr. BARING said it was impossible not to admit that the to dispose of the stock they possessed. But he did not WO' general statement of the Right Hon. Gentleman was very satis- der himself bound down to any time; and if the parties int; factory. But notwithstanding th e flourishing state of the rested co u ld ma k e it a pp ear d es i ra bl e to him that it should , "._ finances of the country, the Chancellor of the Ex c hequer was postpo ne d, h e s h ou ld h ave no o bj ection to do so. It was toe not warranted in pursuing a system which was not sound in establishment of the principle he was more anxious for than principle. This mistake he must suppose him to have fallen any thing else. It was true, as had been said, that a surplu s into when he talked of repealing taxes to the amount of a mil. (lid not exist, except through the means of the Austrian Let' s lion annually for a permanence, when his only means of doing But then there were particular sources of expenditure ti,"„, so proceeded from the aggregate surpluses of several years.— year which, could not be looked for again. There were also These surpluses amounted to 4,135,0001., arising, as lie un- particular miscellaneous charges falling - upon • this year' . _, derstood, from extraordinary resources, which could not be Amongst these was the unavoidable loss of 100000/. in ex' expected to be hereafter productive. • He thought, therefore, changing Irish tokens for the regular coin of the realm. 'The r e he must have misunderstood the Right Honourable Gentle. were also some claims from the United States of America' man's statement in some part of it, wh e n he was led to respecting some slaves that had been taken from 'then?: suppose that he was about to venture upon an act per. which were at present matter of negociation. With respect dull petual in operation, through the instrumentality of means what the Honourable Baronet had asked of him as to the elttl!, purely temporary and extraordinary. Such a course of le- on Inland Coals, he could only say, that at present his vic e ; gislation could not but have the effect, out of doors, of was to place one shilling a ton,. about fourteen or' fifteen pen t ' very materially shaking the credit of the Government. He a chaldron upon them. He wished to place no more than th e! thought the Right Honourable Gentleman calculated too in. ought . to bear upon them, and he should do that after the in"' securely when he assumed that by the repeal of the Coal Duty minute consideration. . • . it would only cause a Teal diminution of Revenue t o th e Si r ISAAC COFFIN comp l a i ne d of the continuation . of tb c . , amount of 100,0001. from the consequent' increased c o nsum p. t a x • upon salt. It was a mo s t r idi cu l ous t ax , an d e xtrerce e t ,, , tion. It might be trueenough in theory ; but it was a d ange - opp ress i ve to poor peop l e, an d i t gave him greatconcein to e rous and fallacious mode of making E s ti ma t es . I t was o b. t h e Ch ance ll or of the Exchequer speak so doubtingly On t " vious that the great foundation of the present repeal was the subject of' removing the remainder of it. . large income proceeding from the A us t r i an L oan ; an d . not M r. E LLICE hoped h e rightly u n derstood the Ch a ncert t from any permanent state of the Revenue. But supposing the of the Exchequer to say, that he was only anxious abeht t he income to go on in its present stat e p ermanent l y , st ill i t wou ld pr i nc i p l e of his proposed measure respecting - the duty on.ot , tt e not produce a surplus re a chin g t o one half' the amount to which and th a t h e was w illi ng t o h ear the parties interested as t o ttl it was now proposed to r e p ea l t axes . Then with regard to th e most approp r i a t e ti n i e . With respect to w h a t an lion. Itarftt e, ee proposed mode of paying off the 4 per cents. he confessed h e had asked a b ou t th e mo d e o f di s p os i ng ' o f t h e twenty n'te., foresaw many objections. A s h e un d erstoo d t h e Ri g h t lion. thousand pounds in October, h e a p pre h en d e d i t was o f c our' Gentleman, according to the present state of the law, it w it s meant to distribute it pro rata among the holders of stock. ect necessary to give six m o nth s ' no ti ce t o t h e h o ld ers o f stoc k . M r. JOHN SMITH sa i d, he rejoiced in the cheering asPfie It therefore followed that this stock was to be paid off in which the country began to assume; and the- more so, at ee October: and that if the holdeis did not accept the terms proved the triumph of the principles of honour and truth offered to them, twenty five millions would be required had no objection to the repeal of the - taxes on Coals and Ne! bt for the first instalment towards the seventy-five, which would nor any other articles of a similar nature. He had no Ott e _ be necessary to complete the whole operation. It appeared to the Chancellor of the Exchequer had well considered his sultic,; him very clear, that unless the Right Honourable Gentle- as he was wont to do, and would pay but little attention to v e " e , man reduced his rate of interest upon Exchequer Bills, he said, but yet he could not but think he had overlooked v t , he would find a fund created in competition to him by the tax among those. which he had selected for repeal, he meant natural tendency of his own act. He was exceedingly glad tax upon Law Proceedings,—in other words the tax up o n, ; to see a prospect of their proceeding upon sound principles Justice. Rivas surprising such a tax had so long lis t - a t of commerce. In all that the Right Honourable Gentleman and sure he was, Gentlemen did not generally know th e" ,le , had said upon the subject of bounties he entirely concurred. ofit on the happiness, the peace; and the morals of the Pe,Se, He had already done away with restrictions upon other No man could commence an action at common law in Eng la *" . l e ttoe parts of' the system which would greatly facilitate the removal for a debt' of 31. or 4/., without paying 31. or 41. for stamp o t of the Bounty Law. There was another question respecting outset. The Legislature by such a course said,—if you can .eaa the introduction of foreign m a n u f ac t ures , w hi c h it wou ld h ave pay to your natura l creditor 3/.105., you are a tit subject to 1 ; b l e given him greater satisfaction h a d h e s t a t e d t o th e H ouse t h at 3/.lo s . over an d a b ove to us. In Chancery proceedingse:„. reciprocity might be expected. He did not mean to contend stamp upon every sheet of paper was fourpence. It was his (ttSt a that even without reciprocity th e principal was not good. B u t Smith's) misfo r t une to h ave h a d to put in an answer to a e vi l , it was one of great novelty a nd i m po r t a nce, an d d eman d e d i n Ch ancer y th ree f eet high, being a thousand folios; one , u itv great care and attention in th e i n t ro d uc tion. Th e i mme di ate l e f t t h e H ouse to j udge of the expellee. In a suit at Equity' which a reduction of 30 p er cen t. on for e i gn s ilk s wou ld t h e stam p s genera l ly cost three hundred pounds, an fie. have, e have, he feared would b e m i sc hi evous . Ile a pp re h en d e d t hi s quent l y muc h more. In a case of Roe verses Gudgeon? 'fi!, er e from the immediate appe ara n ce o f Fren c h s ilk s i n t h e mare i n t h e l a tt er was c al led upon to render an account, the .defers 00, ket ; for in the art of dying they had got an a d van t age over a nt s t a ted that he hoped he should net be o bliged to a ° I On Rum Coals Wool Silk • - £150,000 . - - 100,000 - 350,000 - 46.2,000 Total - - .13,062;000 This would be the annual loss to the revenue, which multiplied by three, would give at the end of 1827 a total loss of 3,717,0001.—this being deducted from the 4,135,0001. of surplus income at the expiration of that year, leaves a difference of 418,000/. This was the substance of what he had to submit. There was one subject on which he could offer a few words— the duty on Salt. It had been represented to Government that the total cessation of that duty would yield no ma.erial benefit. It might therefore be desirable that its total cessation should not take place in January next. On this the House could-de cide; but at all event Government held themselves pledged to a reduction of taxes to that amount, and it was no part of his plan. It could not be expected, when taxes had been repealed to the amount of more than eight millions within the last three years, that further relief could be afforded than he had now stated it to be the intention of Government to grant. The following were the Taxes repealed since the beginning of 1E121: DIRECT TAXES. Agricultural Horse Tax £480,000 Assessed Taxes, England and Ireland 2,520,000 ----- £3,000,000 :TAXES UPON ARTICLES OF CONSUMPTI ON. Malt J - - 1,400,000 • Salt (the - - entire duty 1,500,000 Hides .). 3 00,000 a S DUTIESPRa E r t m i sorseliptoeil A O E f NR U DE n aL io Ii n ETFE D R u ciA t , i 7 e , s II,ORNADE, &C. f R e p ea l of Tonnage Duties - - 160,000 Alterations in several minor branches of Custom, Session, 1823 - 40,000 Reduction of Spirit Duty in Ireland and Scotland 806,000 8,200,000 150,000 1,000,000