The Sun. — London, England, 1842-07-26 00:00:00

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'' ~., T_FIE SUN, LONDON, _TUESDAY 'MORNING, JULY 26, 1842. a public grie,mtne e ; and if that right hal Ileen vio lated the Magistzatos of Staffordshire, he hop6l l l°use would aid him in obtaining from the Go *th ent " that , information for which he was aboUt to move. it appeared a report had r.i.i 3l )read that a statement had been made e Y I L some gentleman in ;•_•:edgeley, that if a 4 74iAt ,dared to show his face in the town, he should tva ltuniediately arrested. Mr. Mason, however, ;'2, 4111 g - that - the Magistrates had no right to make rid.o. statement, determined on holding a meet ing Sedgel e y. He had proceeded about ten :Ili e`"s in .. his lecture, when he was interrupted by a a rstable o f th e name o f B eman ( as we un d ers t oo d), Is'ilioh.constable, it should be observed, was the ;'-'fitness who appeared on the trial against the to . Iso6 eii. And what, after alt, was the language t r,t,W., 111 11 the constable deposed ? A.ceordhg r.c count, Mason was telling the peo beettii_. and telling them, as he (Mr. Duncombe) le ved truly, that the laws of this country were 'e 414(1 by the aristocracy—that the people had no v t ce- in the election of their representatives—that R h e laws which were to be obeyed by all th !llid be made by all, and consented to by all; the the individuals in this country who worked ,e 'hardest received the least; and that those who sta rftked the least received the most. The con thnbile then interrupted the lecturer, saying d c 7i;_jte could stand that no longer ; that he should a€ , A , ().l alething• for his pay ; that Mason was using "tions language; and that it would be his duty Up the meeting. Mason told the con- Allitt. he had no business to interrupt him, • "t 3, only _ business would be to go before a ~.and lodge an information against him ch might be tried on a future day. The constable t ' s lsted in putting an end to the meeting; he removed 11 ,44,,,e4 upon which the lecturer was standing, but ti t ,o?t4gr‘breach of the peace took place. Mason con on the ground for some time. Next day s t ip -tools out a warrant for assault against the con v,..b,Who, however, immediately obtained a counter 1,1 4 ,4 at against Mason. The consequence was that b a lt r i was called before a Magistrate, and held to 4 4 .3 appear at the sessions. In the meantime the gistrates intimated that they. would dismiss the ege against the constable. But on the other hand . 4t t s i ° 4 and those who joined with him were prosecuted ue instigation and instance of the Magistrates. 1141 e Parties were committed for sedition, attending an o ti a\v ,ltd meeting, and for assault. The meeting was i t ; \ lllicit no lawyer would call unlawful or illegal. k a s ; l ia e perfe c tly peaceable til. interrupted by the eon ' GREEN E hero announced ; that the hour (five th ‘ e q`,') appointed for the ,111anagers on the part of th e of : Commons, meeting the iSlanagers on of the IlOuse of Lords, in con erence on the levy klarbour Bill, had arrived, si r l'•. ( ireene, With Sir apier, Air. Hawes, Mr. th e Capri, and other _Members, then retired to meet a tit i r ," 4°l 'd3, and after' a short absence returned and them -u need to the House that they had delivered to f or !,altagers on the part of the Lords, their reasons r airee* 'n theirLordships ' amendments. A i _Lps: .• 12 InT.&COMBE continued his observations. Prosecuting counsel, not satisfied with the tu Y ib that had tried all the other cases, selected Ai 4 " e ls jury for this particular case,. who found 4 4(1 ° , 4 guilty of attending an unlawful assembly, Th. the other-seven men guilty of a common assault. co ltl e -bjects, then, of his (Mr. T. buncombe's) k o Pla int were, the illegal interruption of the ti on etin g) the _arrest of the men, and the prosecu and- certain circumstances which took place pass g 1.14 the tri a l ; a l so th e sentence that was i titis se d nn the men. Another cause of complaint he f0,,2• 40 t forget was, that after those men had been t ,,, a 7 ri d guilty the Chairman did not pass sentence of his to,n„ accord, but i mme di a t e ly a pplied to the tollBtable upon w h ose t es ti mony th e p r i soners were a ti P e tedi and consulted him as to their character, as to the amount of punishment to be a o ~!I \ led to th em . Ditierent sentences were tZ tdi ngly passed. O n M ason s i x months' im .lolnnent, and on the other from four to two rlau.2l. imprisonment. The counsel for the prosecution adding-applied for costs the application was granted, • star men were now lying in confinement in zi,,r.tord Gaol. 'They. were sacrificed to the party fordl! i o f the agistracy,of the district. Were Stal tteliar they tterY districts, he wanted to know, in pit the. • eat present as to admit of such practices rt of the a uthorities, as he had .mentioned ? ;_t ere the days. of Castlereaoth and Sidmouth about f ': ei he revived ?- Would the House look without a pf t i e ll .ZT9firnijr4l s Y at the violation of the sacred right of NitijePP,:e- , P 3 r4 l Pet in. public ,for the discussion ierievances ? • would not, at that late 4 1' % „Ole , session, move for a Cominittee to ht: a tigate - ;this matter, but under all circum- V, Q esi the lost course: he could pursue was 4 1 01Ze for of the depositions upon which - ,sti t *n, • a Chartist lecturer, ThomaS Caswell, 4 1i c t s , - ,Were 'committed for trial at the late t(,B.et rr,_'lssions- for the county of • Stafford ; '414 Wiflicopies of the indictment or indictments, of the Magistrates and Jury before !fi r were. tried. ‘ 11 ):s f ,'" 4.1.TA1t seconded the motion, and made. some Sl l Y a t ti ° l- 1 on the subject which did not reach us. • ° N t ;'• GRAHAM, after briefly commenting on the I , 4 itl t L ati •°ns- .of the.. Hon. Member for Montrose, ld shortly advert to the speech of the -ad for Finsbury, and in. the first place '' l •4 -4 'd committed any error he thought he_ might "e ti - Pardon on the part of the House, there . having j 'AO cases of committals referred to him in t Yof Secretary of State. But when this case N t — ilte before' him upon an application on the part 4,,'re‘. l prisoners, the first of whom Was not John „th e n Thomas Caswell, he had merely looked the 4letnorial, but he afterwards found the verdict ti ll itury was for the conviction of Mason only for t wfui - assembling, and he saw no reason to alter t o 'ctitence of the Court, and he refused 11 t ,qplication. All the circumstances of „ 'oc tio ,, r ' .4 l were brought under his notice, and he Q ~y t t- that the Honourable Gentleman took stringentthe El - steps in seeking to constitute douse a tribunal of appeal from a l. lcuit „ t a jury, and a competent . yariAliction. He 1 "t go into the question as to whether the assem ik:::,„illegai or not. The . Hen. .Gentleman , stated that , able exceeded lui duty in ..pprelumiling the ' I , committed, but he (Sir J. Grahitiv) had yet to hss t e -' l 'it i t w as not the duty of a constabl ,, , when he saw 4, 41 1 tending t a breach or the peace, and heard itp 44 ,,'Y'. of an exciting . nature addreSsed to a multitude, (Oath at, •tclond the party so offendiw. It was true he did i4 4 ' own peeil.—(Hear, hear, from Mr. Hawes.) lie ocl24*al ) is not a high legal authority on mat tZilltle4ll description, but there were Hon. and Learned t , ti ' k it o near him who would inform the Hon. Gen toPposite, what was the state of the law litlbject, and he (Sir J. Graham) would repeat ,fr 1. nl 'lawn, that he conceived it to be competent to theta Lt'• to apprehend the party exciting . to a breach k 'tY, P , aee., though he believed, if he exceeded his t;' l4 thy' was liable to an action.—(Hear, hear.) , That ropth 'tliti l ,' e question submitted to the jury, and the Hon. would hardly contend that they were not - L tetm to bring in the verdict they did. All the cir k,,e js,'"'es were fully detailed in the evidence given be tury, and the - accused had the benefit of coun k:e Right Gentleman then read a letter from t Mivriitrates, stating that neither he; nor et ,Uf other Alligiitrates who acted with him, "'it trey any . pression to political opinions to show G~c t - "ey Wei.eintiuencvd by political feelings with re . the - case. The Hon. Gentleman relied much lie vignature of the counsel for the prisoners. tl, -( ' (SI , - J. Graham) was told that the language was 1 ; llloat exciting description, and of a political cha ,•,-' but. h e would repeat, as far as Government was , t he apprehension of Mason was not ordered T hat prisoner had been convicted upon two '"rie r ' + ;' ne nein , " for an ulawful assembl, and the h?l' o a pie it, arid the heaviest punishment was inflicted 41 41 m, ti , alio' justly so in his opinion, because it was his t`,A he whicki constituted the illegality of the meeting, t 4 Otti r i , being only preSent. God forbid that they as t arrive at the :itne, when . the people should MoWed lawfully and peacefully to discuss griev nil aNi`petit • - • kh thi, ion Parliament. • But the real question . 'W. • • whether they did really meet lawfully t i c 'ca' re t , 7 'w . tilil: l :' and tWelve !nen up . on their oaths hial b Nq,„" "tat they did not, and the impartiality of their 1- h c' covia no a be impugned. It had been said that 4%.'0ral con'Versetl with the Chairman. Now the trial ret ina a nine o'clock in the morning, and had not i, t- 17 i 9,,o ll a t rZ . 1 ..I ti iti t t ' ifour. The * Chairman then retired from Il ti ,` 3l th e : ( . 1 tvw.of the jury men also i•equeste , d i t e t y rre s t l i a r p e : ti i& ecite,"(bd ; al the custody of an officer. r 1 whr, °() :_ u ltqW the Court by the Same door us the Chair- P,. ( itrced out Ale passage . to them, and that, he to ed II ." the only o.onyersation they had. Under G -ell 'osta nee- he sh (mid oppose the motion of the 11, , A a tt • for ' the producti.on of the papers. ttiSt t h LL ER said, that with regard to the charge . tr ,- ",,,Derea ( en .:.,9 1 air man of the Quarter Sessions of having 4t, with the, Jury, he cou;d.state as hehad been 4 litd that the chat WAS altogether . un kqF t td that the Chairman had accidentally k l ,;tl l „`, l ' ~the )'men in a passage ; but he neither Iv 4, , r had lie volten to them in Ctt , r sh au 'i ' i t further say that the high dia.- ttt: Chaim ; uof the Quarter Seroi•nis,. at . whit...h I 4 air" had bee„ tried, would place that gcntlea ~n ‘ l 4 l)iti, n , Partie s to whom he was known above di kilt had h °l h aving lischarged his duty so improperly 110 be alleged . For (Mr. E. t;aller's) part, he gu Reitlernun whose impartiality and judgment ''' l4 l.4 (t n P i' ace gretti.er coofidence than in those of the gi questioat. ter. e n loxiiy that be was not prepared to as t o t h e e ie e4 of the case which hind beftr:•e the . House? ; but he rose for the th e dow n -x Pcessing his total icscent from a doetrity! his Se,, ret by thi ? Right, li:Mourable Baronet, (At r. for the Hone Department. In 4 11 , 'sdi 4 on e 4-‘ ar gliOnby's)opinion, the present sub.ret ' • which•• came within the • ati unq alesna 3 that ase as the t.aipreme Couvt of , the 14, the co. was 110 e bin'g, he thought, unconstituttanul •tri s a l ' lt s" Pursued bi his Hot!. Friend the Member 411 ta ti„ these .depositions. He did not nnber woultl .1 - Jeified in moving. I nes 1, Dal 4: - case like the' doubt and smpicion, lie thought his lion. Member for Finsbury was perfectly justified in taking the course lie ILA pursued. As he (Mr. Aglionby) un derstood the case, no breach of the peace had taken place until after the constable had interfered. The con stable thought that language , was held which made the meeting ari urnurfal one, but the constable could . not be a judge on such en occasion. In his (Mr. Aglionby's) opinion, an assembly was to be considered unlawful when convened for the purpose of carrying out something illegal, or when, according to some authorities, any violence took place which would lead to a reasonable belief that a breach of the pace was about to follow. But the constable had, as he thought, no right to decide that a meeting was unlaw ful because something was said which, in his opinion, might remotely lead to a breach of the p ace. He should, therefiire, support with the greatest pleasure the motion of his Hon. Friend the Member for Finsbury. Mr. HAWES said he hoped the law officers of the Crown would rise and protest against the unconstitu tional doctrine laid down by the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary of State for the Home Department. Ile should not say else word with respect to the facts of the present case. But he wished tco disclaim against the doctrine of the Right Hon. Gentleman, that it -was com petent for a constable, who might be attending a public meeting, to constitude himself a judge whether the lan guage used was seditious or not, and to arrest any speaker who might use what he might conceive to be exciting language. He wished to ask whether the At torney-General and - Solicitor-General would maintain that doctrine. Sir J. GRAHAM said that he did not say that a constable was justified in taking such a course, but that if he took it it should be on his own responsibility. He had said that a constable thinking that language was used at a pu lie meetinz which might tend directly to a °reach of the peace might interfere, but at his own peril. Mr. HAWES protesed against the doctrine that a constable was to be the judge of what was illeg He understood that the opinion of 'the Right Hon. Baronet was, that the verdict of the Jury justified the constable. But he (Mr. Hawes) did not think that the verdict afforded any justification for the constable's interference. The doctrine of the Right Hon. Baronet viola in his opinion, worse than that laid down in the circular of Lord Sid • mouth, which gave the Magistrates the power of acting upon the deposition of a constable, expressing his belief that a certain statement was libellous. That doctrine of Lord Sidnieuth had been scouted at the time by public opinien. He firmly believed that if a constable were ad mitted into that house, he might have found much in the speeches of the Right. Hon. Baronet himself, which would have appeared to hire to be saditiouse -(Hean) The ATTOIZNEYsGENERAL said that he was ready to accept the chalenge which had been thrown out by the Ha:. Gentleman opposite. He confessed that he had no eibahnioo to wake to the doctrine of his Right i fon. Friend the Secretary' for the Hoe.: Department, unless that doctrine were misunderstood. He should first, howeveremake a few remarks with re spect to the motion belare the House. lie would ask any lion. Member who lead a reverence for the Consti tution whether it Ivied(' r of be one of the mnost.fatal cir cumstances to the administration of justic.e.ir that motion, which would go to cast a slur upon the verdict of a Jury, were acceded to. • He loieW no other object for which those papers could be moved except to throw contumely upon the Magistrates and the Jury by whom the case had been tried. It appeared that the motion for the notes of the Chairman, which formed the only important docu ment in the matter, was net to be persisted in. The Hon. Member for Finsbury, however, asked for copies of the depositions and of the indictment. But, it should be observed, that copies of those had already been. furnished to the prisoners previous to their trial. He confessed, therefore, that he now saw no necessity for their production. With regard to the motion for the names of the Jury,- he contendad that it could only be made with the view to *cast reproach upon teem : and further, he believed, that that House was the last assembly in which the verdict of a Jury ought to be made the subject of commentary inquiry. He felt per. suaded that the verdict of a Jury was not a fit sub ject for discussion in that House.—(Hear, hear.) He condemned the appealing from the verdicts of Juries to the verdict of this House ; and he considered the statement in. the petition that the Jury had acted from factious motives,_ was hardly decent ; the decision of the Jury ought to be treated with respect by that House, even if it were not considered final. A constable was bound to interfere the moment he saw the public peace endangered. Thus, if he saw persons measuring ground, and others standing by, he was not called on to wait till lie heard pistols fired before be interfered. Nor was it necessary that he should even see the pistols. • It was sufficient if he saw enough to make him reasonably sup pose that a duel was about to be fought. To state the occasions on which a public officer ought not to inter fere was it matter of considerable delicacy and difficulty ; but he was justified in interfering on any act containing any incitement to a breach of the peace. He (the Attorney (:eneral) did not know what was the lan guage made use of on this occasion, but the result was that the Jury found it an unlawful meeting. He could draw a distinction between a meeting and alecture on an abstract suWeet, which could have no reference to the present. state of things. He should be sorry to counts name anything that would tend to repress tee freedom of discussion ; but the interference of the constable had been justified by the verdict of the Jury, and, under these circumstances, he trusted the House weuld feel that this was not a case which called for the exercise of the inquisitorial powers of the House in calling for the papers. They could hardly call for the names of the Jury without passing a reflection on them, and express ing great doubts of the correctness of the verdict. Air. O'CONNELL said the offence really alleged against Mason was, that he used seditious language ; this was the charge, and the depositions were necessary to prove it. But he would forego that part of the motion ' which called fur the names of the Magistrates. He thought this was a case in which they ought to require the depositions. Let them see What was said, that could justify th© Jury in the verdict they had come to. Sir R. H. INGLIS said that the Hon. Member for Finsbury had thrown overboard thief part of the motion, which referred to the production of the names of the Magistrates. The motion, he thought, would, if car ried, tend to destroy the value of trial by Jury. That House.was not the place to rescind the decision of a court of law. The motion of the Hon. Member for Fins bury would stignatise the conduct of the Magistrates and the Jury, for which there were no grounds, in his opinion. And with regard to the constable, there was no evidence to justify even the hypothesis that he exceeded his duty. Fur these reasons, he opposed the motion. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL objt cted to the mo tion, IR cause it would cast at censure on the Magistrates or jury. The Honourable Gentleman denied that isuch was hi:, intention, hut the motion was founded on the petition which was printed with 'the Votes, and that accused the Magistrates of being influenced by factious and improper motives.— (Hear, hear.) He protested against that House being made a place of appeal from the decision of a Judge or the verdict. It was wholly ineempetent fur that purpose. The Hon. Gentleman had asked for copies of the indictment and depositions. What was that for, if not to cast a censure upon the Magistrates or Jury? The law with regard to unlawful assemblies had been laid down by the Chair man, and he quoted the authority of the Queen's Bench upon the point, and the Jury found that the meeting in question was an unlawful assembly. He could not sanc tion a motion of this kind, which would cast a censure on the Magistrates and. Jury; and he believed that if the present motion were assented to, there was no case where the parties who were discontented would not come to that House, and the Hoese would then feel itself bound to have the evidence, and set itself up as a Court of Ap peal. With'rega-d to what had fallen from the Hon. Member for Lambeth as to the law laid down by his Right Hon. Friend (Sir J. Graham), he (the Solicitor- General) agreed with his Right Hon. Friend, that a constable was authorised in interfering when lie con ceived the meeting was unlawful and tended to an im mediate breach of the peace ; but, as his Right Hon. Friend said, he did so at his own peril. Iu the present case the verdict of the Jury showed that the constable acted properly. Mr. SHEII, said that his Hon. Friend (Mr. Duncombe) leaving stated he did not mean to cast any imputation on the :Magistrates or Jury, he thotight they ought to be content with that. The motion was not founded upon the petition, as stated by the Learned Solicitor-General. The real question they had now to ditcnss was, whether the circumstances were such as to justify the proceedings which took place. The Attorney-General admitted it would be inconvenient to exercise the power of inter fering with public meetings, and that- such a power ought not to be resorted to unless under strong circum stances. It could not be countenanced that a constable should take on himself to decide a most difficult question of law, about which Judges differed and volumes might be written—to decide what assembly was unlawful, and what not so. If by granting the papers they would cast a censure on the Judge and Jury, by refusing them they would give authority to an illegal act. Sir ROBERT PEEL said the Hon. Gentleman allowed that the motion was brought forward irrespec tive of what was stated in the petition, and that the mo tion was to be judged on its distinct merits. The pf ti tion alleged that the conviction was obtained contrary to the evidence ; the charge, therefore, was against the Judge and Jury, not the constable. It was stated, too, that before the sentence was given the Chairman of the Sessions and two of the Jury left the Court together. But this had been utterly dewed, had been shown to be quite accidental, and was, in fact, abandoned as a chargo. All they were called on now to decide was the conduct of the constable. He did not deny that . this House had a jurisdiction in the administration of justice, though it was very difficult to define its limits ; but he thought nothing could be more dangerous than anintermeddling by the House with the course of justice, as such inter ference would always ,be liable to the suspicion of being influenced by party. The Hon. Gt rifleman moved for tlietlames of the Magisfrates and the Jury, but not for that of the constable. Why the Hon. Gentleman might have left out all the rest of the motion. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE—The constable's name is in the petition. Sir R. PEEL—Esery decision of Court had been in favour of the constable. irlie parties, if they felt ag grieved by those decisions, should have appealed. But it was not till after till the law courts had been exhausted that the House of Commons should be applik d to to in terfere. He hoped, under all the circumstances, that the House would uphold the principles upon which the ad ministration of justice was f'ounded, and would not en danger those principles by consenting to the motion. Viscount PALMERSTON concurred with the Right ! Hon. Baronet that they should not lightly interfere with the administration of justice in the law courts ; but at the same time it must also be admitted that cases might arise in which notice might be taken of n hat passed in tbpse courts. The highest authority had so decided lately in ano.her part of .the kingdom. In Ireland a I.L•arned Judge had lately maintained that grievances of •;‘'- !:}rd ought rot to be soljt-u , , of d;seussion 11 itc, eat, thewscives ag- either appi : ,- to the Executive Go vernment, or to Parliament. Now application had been made . to the Executive Government, and the Right Hon. Baronet, after having More or less carefully considered the case, had thought proper not to interfere.l Thee tor co,rse purr:tied by the Hoi. Member for Finsbury—an application to Parliament—they bad the highest Legal authority in another part of the kingdom. The Hon. Baronet had takea upon himself to determine, whether a meeting was lawful or unlawful ; he had stated that parties were entitled to arrest others, if they thought they w e r e go i ng to commit a breach of the peace ; now this put him in mind of what he had b.ten told era party playing at cards; One of the party thought the other was secreting the ace of spades under his hand, he instantly picked up a fork, and run it through his hand, and said, I beg your pardon, if you have not the ace of spades under it.—(Hear, hear.) If one individual had told another to pull down a house, and that information was given tea a constable, that officer would be justified in interposing; but if he (Lord Pahnerston) under stood what had passed at this meeting, he was con vinced that doctrines of a highly objectionable nature were brought forward, but those doctrines were upon abstract notions, whether certain classes were better paid than others ; he titought it a dangerous position to • establish that constables were to be judges of whom they should arrest, and whom they should not. Why, he would ask, did not constables take down the words? be cause, if they did so, the law afforded the means of bring. ing improper parties to justice. For these reasons, be lieving that sufficient ground had been shown for in- • quiry, and as his Hon. Friend had omitted part of his motion, he should vote for it ; bocause he considered it. showed that the House thought the - matter afforded suffi cient ground for further consideration.—(Hear, hear.) . - Mr. VILLIERS thought that the present applica tion was a very reasonable one, as everything ob jeetionablr; had been withdrawn. His Hon. Friend had moved for depositions, those depositions containing the grounds on which the constable had acted. It must be admitted by all that it was important to know upon what grodndS it was that the meeting was broken up. — (Hear.) It was true that it was the province of hulk.. ment to amend the law ; but how, he would ask, were they to do so, unless they had the evidence upon which it was broken ? Ile should therefore vote for_the motioa. Mr. EWART supported the motion. Mr. M. PHILIff; denied that any implements had been exhibited in the way that had been stated ; it might hav,-e been so stated in evidence, but such.aas nut the fact. At the same • time, he thought the case was ue which called icr inquiry, it boing improper for the constable to inter ere as he had d:;ne. Strangers were thim ordered to withdraw, and the House divitice, when there appeared T: For the motion Against it Mnjority, against the Motion DITBLIN COL-Ri,s tifTa 32 116 • 84 In reply to a.question fro:a Mr. Si IML, The CHA'.'XELLOR of the EXCHEQUER con sented to postpone the above Bill till Thursday. DIS'T'RESS IN IRELAND. On the motion for going into Committee of Supply, Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD rose, in pursuance of notice, to call the attention of the House to the present distressed condition of the poor of Ireland. The Hon. Gentleman said that in Ireland the guardians had no power to administer any outdoor relief to the poor of Ireland; and he wished to know what was the intention of her Majesty's Government with respect to_ that sub ject. He had made statements of distress on former occasions in Carlow, Clare, Mayo, and other places which had not been denied ; that distress had rather increased than decreased. The Hon. Gentleman then read a document stating that 500 families in one district were in a state of destitution. —(Hear.) He had received similar accounts from. Belfast. The distress in that town was on the in crease, and whatever might be the price of food, its con, tinuance appeared inevitable. In the west and south of Ireland, the distress was amongst the agricultural class ; in the north of Ireland it was amongst the manufacturing class. It was said that the Corn-laws had benefited Ireland. How could that be possible when so large a portion of the manufacturing class were distressed ? In his opinion the Corn-laws had done the greatest injury to Ireland.—(q , ar, hear.) They had taught the land lords to depend on high prices instead of looking to the improved cultivation of their land. The Corn-laws were injuring the trade which was the great source of prosperity in the north. He was firmly persuaded that nothing would tend so much to benefit Ireland us the repeal of the Corn-laws. It was absolutely necessary that before the recess of Parliament, means should be taken to prevent the people from starving. The esablish xnent of the Poor-law had cut off the poor from the usual mode 'of relief, namely, voluntary charity, and had thus caused great privation amongst the population. The Commissioners had in some cases applied the prin ciples of the Poor-law so strictly that they would not allow the distribution of funds which were voluntarily contributed for the relief of the people. Ile would submit it ;o the humanity of the House, whetho. some means ought not to be devised to better the condition of the poor Irish. What, he asked, was to become of the poor in the state of misery in which they now were ? W bile the experiment of the Irish Poor-law was being worked out, he implored the House to adept some means of rescuing the distressed people from star vation. He wished he could get the Right Hon. Baronet to pledge himself .to have the Irish Poor-law revised next session. Though not an Irish representative, he considered that his countrymen had not the less claim on his services in their behalf. The Hon. Gentleman con cluded by moving that the distressed state of Ireland required the immediate attention of the House and her. Majesty's Government, with the view of adopting such measures as might be deemed most desirable under the present circumstances of extreme destitution among the working classes in that country. Mr. FIELDEN seconded the motion. Lord ELIOT would not remain silent'on this question. lest he should be supposed wantirg in yespect to dm Hon. Gentleman who brought forward the motion, or void of regard for the subject now under discussion. No one wculd more than he respect the co:lduct of the Honourable Gentlrman as a resident land lord, and while he (Lord Eliot) gave- him credit for cnteriairing feelings of compassion. for the state of the poor in Ireland, and a desire to alleviate it, he hoped the Don. Gentleman could give credit to the Irish Goveindient for entertaining similar feelings. The Members of the Government in Ireland had adopted every measure consistent with their duty to remedy the distress which prevailed in that country ; but he con• tended that that distress was but partial, and similar to what had occurred in the South and South 7 western and Western districts of the country at this period of the year, fur the last time or lour years. (The Noble Lord read an extract from a communication from Mr. Griffiths, Superiutendant of the Boundary Department of the Ordnance Survey in Ireland, showing that agri culture was steadily improving, and that ill a short time the people's condition would be greatly ameliorated.) He trusted the House would nut concede the granting of out•dour relief, as it would tend greatly to increase the rates. After a few words from Major BRYAN and Mr. FRENCH, Mr. O'CONNELL said he was not sure that any object would be attained by continuing the discussion ns it was at present conducted. He thanked the Hon. Member for Rochdale for the feelings evinced in bringing forward his motion, and the Hon. Member for Oldham (Mr. Fielden) for supporting the motion, which, though he saw no practical results likely to ow from it, he would support in case, the House divided upon it. He condemned the application of the Poor-I was a panacea fier the distress of any country, but especially for that of a country circumstanced as Ireland was. The Noble Lord, the Secretary for Ireland, read a pro phecy of the future amelioration of Ireland. He (Mr. O'Connell) had often head such prophecies. The Re port of the Committee which sat in 1830. held out splendid anticipations of the future condition of Ireland, but, in two years after, when the people came to be enu merated, there were found to be 2,300,000 paupers in the country. The Hon. Member for Oldham regretted that the Act of the 43d of Elizabeth was not applied to Ireland. How could it? At the time it ought to have been applied, her troops were putting in execution the recom mendation of the poet Spencer, to destrerthe harvests, and it was not until that practice was employed that Ire land was perfectly subjugated. So that to have the 43d of Elizabeth applied to Ireland was, he should have thought, a flight even beyond the poetic imagination o. the lion. Member for - Oldham.--(Laughter.) He did not agree with the' Noble Lord that the present dis tress was similar to that which had occurred be fore in Ireland, and the Hon. Member for Kilkenny, who had claims upon the MAI people, as an excellent resident landlord, had given his testimony upon that fact. There were periods when there were less pro• visions than at present, but there never was a perion when there was greater inability on the part of the people to purchase food.--(Hear, hear.) k‘' hat was the use even of • having food cheap, if there were no means of purchasing it ? The circumstances of Ireland were peculiar. He should like to see the person who would point out the real causes of her distress, and stile more the person who would point out the proper remedy. He did nut think the Poor-laws were that remedy. On the contrary, he ventured to anticipate that when ti.e rate became universal, it would be met by a more sanguinary resistance than any other.--(Hear, hear.) It required great sagacity, combined with great hu manity, to legislate for Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) At present the distress was very severe and very extensive, but he was bound to say that there was no locality where the distress was severe that the Irish Government did not afford relief.—(llear, hear.) He mentioned that with pleasure. There were many causes for melancholy reflection in the Irish 1 nor-taw. One consequence of the Poor-laW was that it kept the able-bodied labourers at home to support their aged parents, and prevented them from emigrating to places where labour was better rewarded. There was no country in the world where the family ties were stronger, and they would not, unless fore, d by the strongest necessity, allow their parents to go t o the workhouse.—(Hear, hear.) He take up the. eof the House any mto l o c t tn the call in l g l ‘ t a ' ible d a g i .) (hi his motion, ned a h r ei i (il e A n b d Nyv t iF o t .(...) withdraw ieaacr upon him by the Right lion. Gentleman. The motion was then withdrawn. DISTRESS IN FORFAR. Mr. HUME said that befime !louse went into Committee, he wished to call its attunion'to the state of Forfar. Since the discussions which took place rela tive to the distress of the country, he received commu nications from Forfar, requesting him to do all in his power to obtain relief for that _plaeo. Ile did not know anything which would be more likely to do that than the opening of the ports, which could only be a temporary relief till the Corn-laws were repealed. He had no con ception that the distress was so extensive there. SUPPLY. The House then went into a Committee of Supply. • Mr. GnEENF, in the chair. .10,500/. was voted for the Dublin Society. 23,1331. for the salary and expenses of the Chief Secretary and Privy Council. 04 the, vote of 12,4331. for the expenses of the Lord Lieutenant's household.being proposed, Mr. HUMS said he - did not see what object was ob tained by the office of Lord Lieutenant. I3c heard that the Nobleman who exercised that office in Ireland at. present was about to be - recalled, and he hoped that no person would he sent to take his place. Sir R. PEEL said, 'that so far from his Noble Friend beinr , withdrawn from the Government of Ireland, his conduct in the. administration of that country had met with the decided approbation of her Majesty's Govern ment. The duties of his 'Noble Friend were so many, and .his zeal in performing them was so great, that he was obliged to leave Ireland tO restore his health. Mr. riumE said that the object he had in view was, that the Noble Lord might have full time to restore his health, and to relieve the public from the expense of his office.—(Laughter.) The vote was then agreed to. 4,8191. was voted for the-payment of the civil service in Ireland. 3,9801. for the printing dons. inci publishing of proelama- • • On 35,630/. being proposed for the payment of Non conformist and Dissenting Ministers in Ireland, Mr. HUME said he did not see how the Dissenters could, consistently With their principles, receive this money._ . Dr: 130 WRING agreed with what had fallen from his Hon. Friend. Sir G. CLERK said that the ministers in the North of Ireland were differently circumstanced from the Pres byterian ministers of Scotland. Sir R. TEEL thought the lion. Gentleman was wrong in supposing that there was any violation of the con science in receiving this money. —(Laughter.) If any individual felt it a violation of his conscience to receive this money, he had an easy remedy by refusing it. The vote.was then agreed to. On the question that a sum of 90,0001. should be granted - to her Majsty to defray the expense of Criminal prosecutions, and other law charge s , Lord ELIOT, in answer to a question from Mr. Hume, stated .that, in future, the law-officers of the Crown in Ireland, instead of king paid by fees, would be remunerated by salariA.s., which would effect a great saving. • . The vote, after a short discussion, was agreed to. 85,6001. was voted lhr defraying the charge of the Public Offices, and the Metropolitan Police c~f'l)ublin. 2,714/. was voted to deflV-# 4 ? . 'penkes of Public r gotks in , • • •5,3001. was voted-for the Town Survey of Ireland. • On the motion that a sum of 13,000/. should be granted, to defray .the charges .of the Commissioners for the int . provement of the river Shannon, Mr. F. FRENCltobjected to the- expenditure of so larg , , a sum •of money, and complained of a violation of the Act of Parliament by the C•anmissioners. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER defended the vote. In the future proceedings of the Commission, it would be his duty to take care that its expenses were as light as possible. • Mr. WILLIAIS . wish, , d to know what was the whole 4wount, required to complete this object ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said 6.10,00C1, altogether, 300,000/ of which was to be found by Government, and the rest by the counties. - Sir R. PEEL thought that what had fallen from the Hon. Memb:T for Roscommon, was a discouragement to the Government to make grants of public money for local improvements —(Hear, bear.) Mr. F. FRENCH observed that the scheme was com pulsory in the county. of Roscommon. They knew nothing at all of the Act, until they were called upon to contribute their money. Mr. lIITME recollected perfectly well the Hon. Mem ber for RoLcommon supporting the Bill when it was brougphutbl rcperrm 1 b io 'M e r dtheir i . Slriigßice.—(H ear , h ear. ) part The of the contract, and he did not see why the country gentleman should not perform theirs. After a few words from Lord ELTor and Mr. M. T. O'CoNNELL, the -vote was agreed to. A vote of 3,500/. was then proposed for defraying the expenses of postage, for services connected with the census of the population of Ireland. Dr. BOWRING inquired when it might be expected that tl:e Report of the Commissioners would be pub lished ? Lord ELIOT replied (as we understood) that the Report would probably be published in the course of another month. Mr. HUME expressed a hope that the Government would lay on the table of the House, in the course of the next session an account of the exicienses of taking the census of the United Kingdom. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the account would be laid before Parliament as soon as it was prepared ; but it embraced various items and could not be got ready without some delay, The vote was then agreed to. MISCELLANEOUS ESTIMATES—THE CALE- DONIAN CANAL. Sir G. CLERK said he should next move certain Mis cellaneous Estimates, and he should commence with the Note for the Caledonian Canal. It was the determination of the Government to recommend the adoption of the recommendations of a Report n hieh had been laid before the house for deepening and improving the Canal, and insuring ttirough it a quick and certain transit. The works would cost, it was calculated, 1.50,000 L, and would take three years. He proposed that 50,0001 be voted for the expenses of the Canal during the ensuing year. The vote having been put, Mr. WILLIAMS rose to oppose the vote. He did not think that the r e t urns f rom the Canal were ever likely to equal the p r o pose d expenditure ; and he f e l t assured.that a still great e r out l ay would yet be required. He sound that in a p er i o d o f seven years the Cana l h a d cost 31,6631., or 4,5231. a ye ar , w hi le the to l ls an d d ues amounted during th e sa me per i od to no more t h an 1,781/.; or 2,6834 per year ; so t h at t h e c h a rge of keeping the Ca na l was near l y d ou b le the returns w hi c h it brought in. The people of Scotland might be proud of the canal, and talk of it as a national work, but he was sure it was one from which they derived little or no benefit. It was certain that the in habitants of the great commercial towns of the empire generally looked upon the work as one of little or no value. (The lion. Member cited the resolutions of the inhabitants of different towns in proof of this asser tion.) No improvement had taken place since the vote was last before the House. He entreated the Com mittee before it voted this sum to pause; it was begun as a job and as a job it would end. The Canal was of fered to Scotland by the Committee of 1833, and it was refused, He 'called upor. the Right Hon. Baronet in the present distressed state. of the country, not to sanction such a waste of money. Sir ROBERT • PEEL said, . though he had come to a different Conclusion from the Hon. Member, yet in most of his observations he was disposied to concur. He had wished to be relieved front the vote, and he thought it would be fur the benefit of the public if the Canal were abandoned altogether. He would say more, that he thought the project was a very absurd one at its com mencement. Had it not been for the fortuitous circum stance of the application of steam power to vessels, the canal would have been worth nothing. It would require an expenditure of 40,00 e/ to destroy the canal, and there api e :red something so glaring in expending that amount to destroy a work that cost more than a million, ..hat the mind did recoil from it.. But he could assure the Committee that this vote should not be supplied, unless under a strict guarantee that the work should be completed for that sum, or the canal should be abandoned altogether. —(Hear.) Were the question now the commencement of such a foolish work, he thought it ought not to be un dertaken even it' it would only cost one-eighth of the amount it had done. Mr. HUME said the statement was a very candid one, but he thought the first expense would be the best. In 1822 he had urged the House to abandon it, and had re peated his objections in every subsequent year. If they were to expend 300,000/. the public would not derive a benefit of 2,000/. a-year, It was of no use, and the commercial community did' not consider it if any advantage. Vessels were often detained in it, if he wind was unfltvOurable, for six or seven weeks, and he merchants preferred the voyage round, to the risk of detention. Having cost so much, the question was, should they throW away more ? He thought they ought not. After a few words from Mr. FITZJAMES an d M r . WILLIAMS, the vote was agreed to. 10,3001. was voted for completing the Prison i n th e Isle of Wight. and that that the 337,120 sove. whole 1,5001. to meet the deficiency in the fund s f or the ere o ct n iu th u e of vo th te e l o k f sse 3 m 2 l: o ly oo y . 11 to defray i,n Pences eon• uected with the new coinage, a, d a e t f Edtbhuergeix, was voted. Edinburgh, Dr. BOWRING asked what amou nt of silver coin age had been issued ? The CHANCELLOR of the EX CH EQUER stated r th ei a g t n t s l , e a r i e ld h 4a.l l 9 b ,o e o e o n h i a ss if ile s d ov f e roreigis from the Mint, ;t amount of silver issued was 260,0001.. including 86 ,000 half-crowns, and 334,000 shillings. Th is , together with the issue of half-crowns that had taken place, would, he ;loped, remove . the dirficalv that had arisen from the scarcity of silver, whielf, he was happy to say, .had much diminished. The vote was agreed to. 1,4301. was proposed to defray the expense of purchas ing pictures for the National Gallery during the pa s t year. Mr. HUME hoped a report would be Printed, giving the names of the parties who had recommended th e pu,._ chase of these pictures. In answer to a question, Sir R. PEEL said thal the apartments appropriated to the Royal Academy, were given to t hem in exchange R be GET granted ilE to her M a j esty FOURTH. for the rooms which they had held in Som erset House by Royal grant. . • , After a very desultory conversation, tne Vote was p agreed to. 'COHnEtheSTmAotTioUnEthaOt 6,30 OF GEORGE to defray Sir Francis Chantrey's ex p ens es o g f ._ a ( st e a r t i ne es of f , George the Fourth, . Mr. HUME said that he did n ot th ink any statue of G, Hear, eorge hear," and ~ Order."), e r, Fourthwa swo tha l'rhiivialit estate of the shilling,. The King ought to bear the expense. Thoell f A or the NCE payment.4Lroßo d are of the EXCHEQUER said that the order ad bean made by a '1 reasury minute. The vote was then agreed to. THE CAMPAIGN IN SYRIA. On the motion that gO,OOO/. he granted to her Majesty to he distributed amongst the soldiers, sailors, and ma rines engaged in the )yar. in Syria, .• . .Mr. HUME objected to the vote,and requested to know upon what principle the money was to be distributed ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER defended the vote. The services of the troops, military and naval, had gained the admiration of all Europe. C. HAMILTON thought that the naval forces engaged in Syria, had already boon sufficiently rewarded bv promotions and other mea;i,:. Instead of rewarding those who were en. , -aged in Syria, they should rather re wa,rd those who took no part in the war. He was astonished at the reference to Navarino. At that battle they had taught Mehemet Ali to be a rebel, whilst at Acre they were punishing him for rebellion. He hoped that the vote would not be agreed to. Captain PECHELL supported the vote. Sir CHARLES NAPIER. said he had never heard a more extraordinary argument than that used by the Noble Lord opposite.—(Hear, hear.) He would not propose a vote of this description in the present distressed state of the country, but he would not oppose it.—(Laughter.) The Noble Lord said, those who were engaged in Syria ought to be satisfied with the honour they obtained. What honour had the poor soldier received ?—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord called it a gratuity. Why it would not pay for the clothes the soldier wore.—(Cheers.) It would not pur chase a pair of shoes for him. Were the House pre pared to refuse such a sum ? He did not think the Bri tish Government ought to pay this sum of 60,0001. at all, but that it ought to be paid by the Government of Turkey.—(Loud cheers.) They restored a kingdom to Turkey.—(Hear, hear.) He was sorry they had done so. Ile did not think she deserved it.—(llear, hear.) They also restored her a fleet, so that if the vote was three times 60,0001., he thought it should be paid by the Turkish Government.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord had said that it was not a war. If it was not a war, he (Sir C. Napier) did not know what to call it, for it was something very like it. Mr. HUME wished to know how many persons there were to receive the money. He understood there were . 1,500 persons in the Mediterranean at the time. He believed each person would not receive more than 4s. 6d. Sir G.COCKBURN was surprised at the turn the debate had taken. lie believed that the men engaged in Syria would have done their duty, whether they were to re ceive this money or no.---(hear, hear.) The money was oaly to be distributed amongst those actually engaged in the operations of the war.' He looked upon the war in Syria, as one which was very creditable to the nation, and the great operation of taking Acre reflected the greatest honour on those who were engaged in it. The vote was then agreed to. 1,6001. was voted to Mr. Gurney for his services in assisting to light the House. On 159,545/. being proposed for the disembodied militia of England and Ireland, Mr. HUME said that the militia was now in a very inefficient condition. He did nut see why the militia should not be paid from the War- office as well as the regular soldiery. Sir G. COCKBURN admitted that the militia was not in such a sAtisflictory state as formerly. Considerable reductions had been made in the expense of this body. In 1830, a reduction of 93,000/. was effected ; and in 1835, a farther reduction of 33,000/. was made. The vote was then agreed to. The CISAIRMAIN then reported progress, and obtained leave to sit again this day. A Message from the "House of Lords brought up a Bill, the title of which we did not . hear, which was read a first, and ordered to be read a second time on Wed nesday next. The St. Briavel's Small Debts Bill was read a third time and passed. ST. ASAPH AND BANG OR CATHEDRAL BILL. On the motion for going into Committee on this Bill, Sir J. GRAHAM moved that it should be committed that day three months, and gave notice that he should move to introduce a Bill to ccntinue the Suspension Act for one year.—Agreed to. The Ordnance Services Bill went through Com mittee, and ordered to be reported to-morrow. The Court of Exchequer (England) Bill also went through Committee, and was ordered to be reported on Wednesday next. The Bonded Corn Bill (No. 2) was reported, and ordered to be engrosed, and read a third time this day. The Stamp Duties Assimilation Bill (Ireland) also went through Committee, and was ordered to be reported this day, The Stamp Duties Bill was read a third time and passed. The Game Certificates Bill (Ireland) was read a third time and passed, The Lunacy Bills went through Committee. The Grand Jury Presentments (Ireland) Bill was read a third time and passed. • Lord ELIOT obtained leave to bring in a Bill to alter the number and define the boundaries of the several baronies of the county of Dublin. Lord STANLEY obtained leave to bring in a Bill to continue for two years the Western Australia Act. The House then adjourned at Half-past One o'Clock. DEPUTATION FROM THE ANTI CORN-LAW CONFERENCE TO SIR R. PEEL, LORD STANLEY, AND LORD WHARNCLIFFE. A deputation from the Anti-Corn• law Conference consisting of Mr. Pawson, the Mayor of Leeds, Mr. Holdforth of Leeds, Mr. Alderman Chappel of Manchester, Mr. Gardener of Man chester, Mr. Ashton, Mr. Brook of Huddersfield, Mr. Akroyd of Halifax, Mr. thggs of Leicester, Mr. .1. Walker of Bury, Mr. Ashworth of Bolton, Mr. Boole of Salford, and one 6r two other ? gentlemen, waited upon the First Lord of the Trea sury yesterday at one o'cick for the purpose of laying. before the Eight Hon. Baronet an account. 01 the distressed condition of the country. The Right Hon. Gentleman received the deputation standing, in which position himself as well as they remained during the whole conference, which lasted precisely two hours. 111 r. PAwsoh having stated that they were a deputation appointed to wait upon the Right lion. Gentleman to state once more the distress of the country, proceeded to state that he had been for 40 years a resident of the Upper township of Leeds, and was in the woollen line. He described the distress of the poorer classes as most appalling, so n nett so, that the charitable people had been induced to raise subscriptions on their behalf. At the first subscription 6,5t;0/. was collected; when that was gone another subscription was made, but 1,0001. more was all they could raise. When that was exhausted they established a soup kitchen, and the eager clamour with which the poor surrounded the doors showed the distressed state in which they were for want of food. Sir R. PEEL—Some branches of the woollen trade are much less depreciated than others, ate they not? Air. PawsoN—Yes, the fine cloth is much more in _demand than the lower article. Sir 11. PEEL—The quantity of the lower article consumed is greater this year than hitherto, is it not ? Mr. PA wsoN-1 believe it. is as great. Sir IL PEEL—What is the chief market for your manu factures? Mr. PAWSON—The home market and the American. Sir R. PEEL—Has there been no indication of improvement in trade within the last short period? Mr. PAWSON—NO, Sir, none. Mr. HOLDFORTH stated that he was a silk spinner. He was an old inhapitaut of Leeds, and having been ever since his boyhood identified with the working classes. he had noticed progressively the changes which had taket place in their cir cumstances, and at no period did he recollect the working class to be so deplorably depressed as at present. He had traversed through numerous streets in the town, calling at every house, and the wretched condition in which he found them far exceeded anything he could have imagined. In some families nut an article of furniture or property could be found, nor was food of any description whatever to be seen in their dwellings ; in another he found four potatoes, and nothing store, and in another nineteen potatoes and a herring. Most of these people depended for their very existence upon a pre carious charity. • l'heir condition now was infinitely worse than at the beginning of the year, for they had nothing now to fall back upon ; their furniture was all gone; the clothes from their backs were pawned to buy food. One of the largest manufacturers of that district, who manufactured plaids for the American market, stated that until the present time for thirty years he had never been without orders at this season, and now he had not one ; and though upwards of 1,000 people were de pendent on him for support, he had not work for them to do. Several mills had recently stopped working ; and one-third less butcher's meat was slaughtered during the last six months than usual. Mr. P6I7SON stated that in Leeds, where the population was between 40,000 and 50,0000, one-fourth of the inhabitants were dependent upon parish relief. S:r R. PEEL—What kind of union is it ? Mr. PA wsox—The Gilbert union. Sir H. PEEL—The New Poor-law has not come into force then. You give out-door relief ? MI% PA WS' . Ol4-W0 (10. Mr. CIIAFPEL said he was no party man, he was no poli tician, he had never given sixpence to ally political purpose, nor ever would. He had been fifty years an inhabitant of Manchester, and he could sr.y that there never was such general and heart-rending distress in that town as there was at present, Nut only were the poor suffering from the inability to procure labour, but the capital of the manufacturers was meltii,g like snow before the sun. Only twelve years ago he himself pur chased a mill, which cost him between 30,0001. and 40,0001., and during the last few years he had been losing money by it. He owed no money, he paid no rent, he was extra-parochial and paid no rates, he was situated near the sp!)1, whence the coals were excavated, and if he, with all these advantages, and an experience of fifty years, could not but lose money by his mill, he should beg to suggest to the Right lion. Gentleman what must be the condi tion of those manufacturers who laboured under less favourable circumstances. He had been obliged to stop half of his ma chinery, and he had now such a stock of goods on hand, as would take six months' ordinary sale to dtspese of. He would just mention the cases of a few other miltowners, which had come under his own notice. A manufacturer of Stockportwas worth 90,000/, a few years ago ; the whole of his property was sold for the b.hoof of his creditors a few days ago, and his son was now an inmate of a union workhouse. In Derby a mane li faxturer, lately worth 200,0001., had just failed, and would not pay one shilling in the pound. In Salford, a manufacturer, paying an annual rental of 4,9001., employing between seven and eight hundred hands, and whose wages amounted to 4001. a week, had stopped. Numerous other-mills had stopped, eadh of them turning out between seven and eight hundred 'bands. The machinery belonging to one firm, which had stoPpek cost 40,0001., it was valued to an incoming tenant at 22,0004 ; it was ultimately sold under the hammer, by order of the Sheriff, for 7,000/. Sir 11. PEEL—What was the business carried on by the firm . that ;topped for 200,000/. ? Mr. CHAPPEL—It was a paper concern. Sir R. PEEL—The paper trade in some districts, you know, has not suffered the general depression. Is it 'owing to the general depression in other branches that they failed? Mr. CHArren said he did not know what was the cause of the failure, not Leing in'that line. He was fi Director of the Manchester and Birmingham Railway ; and a short time back they found it necessary to take on between 50 and 60 hands engineers, police, porters, clerks, &c., and they . received no less than 1,200 well written applications, accOmpanied with excel lent testimonials. The effect of the distress upon the morals of the people was shocking ; grown-up people of both sexes were compelled by pr.verty to pass the night in the same room ; the people were ashamed to go to church without decent clothes, and the Sunday school of which he was the superin tendent, and which had always been supported b 3, voluntary contributions, was now two years in arrears of rent. Hundreds of females were being forced upon the streets to seek their live lihood in a disgraceful manner, and the men were sent out to equally wicked employments. Mr. GA ItnENEa stated the destitution in Manchester to be very great. A great number of the people were going to America, all the best hands ; he asked one who was in full em. ploy, and received gond wages, what was his reason for going to America, the answer was, " its not wages I care so snuefi for; my reason is, that manufactures will soon bedone for here." Half the people in Manchester were quite out of work, sub. 1r - 7-777 seriptions had been raised for them by some humane and be nevolent persons, and a soup kitchen had been established, which gave away great quantities of soup. In Preston all the in:lk were in full work, but the number of card room hands had been reduced ‘2.5 to :10 per cent. since 18:37 arid 18:13, owing to the improvements in machinery. Sir R. PEEL—Has the number of mills incroased within the last six or seven years? Mr. GARDENER-I think not. Mr. BIGGS, of Leicester, repeated to Sir Robert Peel the statements which he made at the Anti-Corn .law Conference in the morning, nearly in the same words-.they will be found in our report of the Conference.. Mr. J. WALEER stated that trade of all kinds in his neigh bourhood (Bury) was exceedingly depressed. He was a part ner in a foundry and machine making establishment ; the wages raid by the firm of which he was one, in 1836, .837, and )838, were about 8001. a week ; they now only averaged about 3501., which was a decline of more than one half. The weekly wages of their own men varied from 16s. to 405.; they were generally an honest and intelligent class, and in consequence of the scarcity of employment, were wandering about the country in a state of great destitution. He Lad two foundries in Bury, one of which had been closed for more than twelve months, though the wages in 1838 and 1839 averaged from 1601. to 170/. per week. Sir R. PEEL-Bury is not suffering so much as Stockport or Manchester? Mr. WALKER—I believe not; but the distress in Bury is still very great. Mr. ASHWORTH could assure the Right Hon. Baronet that the account of the distress which existed throughout the couutry had not been exaggerated. In the Poor-law union of Bolton, which consisted of 25 townships, and contained a popufation of 90,000; the number receiving parish relief was between 12 and 13,000. Engineering was carried on to a great extent at Bolton, and many engineers, excellent work men, were wholly unemployed; they were selling off their furniture piecemeal—a chair to-day, a table to-morrow, the bed next, and every article of clothing followed. The rates had considerably increased, and out of a rate made in March, 1841, amounting to uVwards of 21,000/., only 9,0001. had been paid up to March in the present year. The class of dis tress was not that of mere animal privation ; the paupers in Bolton were a class of men of a peculiar quality of mind—men who understood all the chemical processes discovered to the world by a Davy, and the mechanical in ventions disclosed by the master mind of an Ark wright and a Watt ; they were men in whom much duty and religious feeling were alike conspicuous with mecha nical genius and skill. It was too late now to consider the various avenues whence this distress had sprung, but a remedy must be found; and the evident remedy was a repeal of the Corn-laws. He did not speak rashly of the repeal of the Corn-laws, nor without having first deeply consi dered the suNect. Their best workmen were leaving the country, and could net be retained in it. H:s foreman, who had been in his employ for the last nineteen years, and who, with his family, earned 250/. a year, left for America a short time ago. Previous to leaving, he asked him why he was quitting England ? His reply was that his family had been educated as mechanics and engineers, and that he deemed the fate of this country was sealed ; before he died, he wished per manently to settle his family. A man who had returned from America informed him (Mr. Ashworth) that in Mississippi and Ohio there was great abundance of corn, but that the people were quite destitute of clothing ; all they seemed to want was, a better intercourse with us, that they might be better clad. Curtis, of Ohio, corroborated that ; he said that the people's clothes were fastened en them by strings made of the bark of trees, as they were • not able to purchase tapes, buttons, and thread. At New Orleans he saw barrels of wheat and provisions come down the river in such plentiful supplies, that after immense stocks had been pur chased a large quantity could not meet with a sale, and that re mained at New Orleans till it became so putrid that a pesti lence and fever were the result. Last October there were ' fears entertained in England of the harvest, and some doubts were entertained of the security of the Bank of England ; sothat whilst the Americans were naked, that which should have clothed them was locked up in the warehouses of our manufacturers; and whilst we were starving, that which should have been food for us, was putrid and rotting on the quay of New Orleans. A gentleman from Sydney had informed him that the agricul turists of that place were in the habit of holding meetings from the:years 1819 to 1823, in order to obtain some protection to them. selves, such as that enjoyed by the landowners of this country, and they originated in the following circumstances :—A tender was made to the Government Commissary to supply wheat for the convicts at 3s. 6d. a bushel, who refused it, because the price was too high, adding that. he could get it cheaper from Van Diemen's Land. Then the agriculturists held meetings in order to exclude wheat from Van Diemen's Land by irn posing a fixed duty upon its importation into Sydney. The Governor of Sydney said it was a good thing to have a free importation of corn and cheap bread, which would greatly tend to inerease the prosperity of the colony; he said that he would not lay a duty upon wheat or a tax upon bread, remem bering that the Government were the chief consumers of bread, having so many criminals to victual. A few people thought that ruin to the agriculturists of Sydney would follow this step on the part of the Governor, but the result proved them to have been mistaken in their surmises; numbers of people had taken to sheep rearing and wool growing, and the quantity of their exports to London and Liverpool, was annually increasing at a great ratio ; the value of laud had greatly increased, and Sydney had become the chief supply of animal food to Van Diemen's Land ; many had directed their attention tow haling, which had turned out a very profitable speculation, the land was devoted to pasturage and vineyards, and w h ea t also rose in price, • thus benefiting the wheat growers of Van Diemen's Land; in fact, general prosperity had followed. Sir R. PEEL—You will admit that I have diminished the protection to agriculture more than has ever been done within I any six months at any rate ? Mr. ASHWORTH thought it was only a nominal alteration which had been effected in the Corn-laws; a duty of 3s. had been subtituted fur 135., and 6 feet of water might drown a man as well as 6 yards. Neither would the tariff he very be neficial to the poor man ; out of 22 millions' worth of articles Ilea it embraced, 16 millions were left untouched ; and the six m;lliens' worth that it did affect would not assist the starving operative. Did the poor man care for French boots and shoes, co:Tr:elks, silks, and perfumery? Sir R. PEEL—It is rather shallow to say that the poor do not care for cosmetics. It must be recollected too that I have made a great reduction of the duty on the importation of meat. Mr. Asiiwoaeir said that pork was purchased at Cincin nati for Ba. a cwt., whilst Sir R. Peel had imposed a duty of 14s. Sir R. PEEL—Ss., not 14s. I think we had better not dis- C 1153 the tariff. Mr. ASHWORTH said it was no wonder if we imposed a duty of cent. per cent. upon American pork that they should impose a duty of 35 per cent. upon our manufactures. Mr. Asirrox merely wished to refer to the great emigra tion that was going on from this country to America. The best, the careful, steady, industrious men, were leaving all the manufactories in England. He thought it was absolutely ne cessary that the good hands should be kept at home. Sir R. PEEL—Should you say they went to America to invest what money they had in hand, or to get employment? Mr. ASHTON-I should say to obtain employment. Mr. 13nooKE said it was his good fortune to come from a part (Huddersfield), whore the distress was not near so great as in the cotton and other parts of the woollen districts. That he attributed to the fact that the fancy woollen trade was the staple manufacture of the place. A great many people, how erer, the best of their men, had gone to America. For the last thirty-three or thirty-four years there had been a very useful and industrious class of men amongst them, called " domestic manufacturers," who manufactured perhaps four or five pieces a-week ; these men as a body were almost extinct, most of them having been reduced from a state of comparative affluence to the condition of workmen for others, and many of them were in the receipt of parish relief. It was not for him (Mr. Brooke) to suggest remedies, but he did not think this a Corn-law question ;he regarded the Corn-laws as a great evil, but he did not believe them to be the only cause of the distress ; his opinion was, that until there should be a com plete removal of all restrictions upon commerce, this country would never attain to that grandeur which she once possessed. Though he did not agree with the Right Honourable Baronet in politics, he must say that he was happy to see that was the opinion entertained by the Right Hon. Gentleman, and he was glad to see the reins of Govern ment in the hands of oue than whom no one had more power to carry measures of relief, orthe contrary ; he hoped the mea sures with which the Right Hon. Gentleman had begun, would ultimately lead to the complete emancipation of trade. Mr. A Kaovp, Jun. stated that he belonged to one of the largest firms in Halifax, employing 2,000 hands, and paying wages to the amount of 1,0001. a week. The worsted trade was now in a better condition than that of the cotton or woollen trade ; yet was it in a worse condition than it was a few years ago, and the prospects for the ensuing winter were very bad. Articles made entirely of worsted, which formerly con stituted the staple trade, such as merinos and lastiogs, were difficult of sale. A large manufacturer in the neighbourhood of Halifax, bad just commenced working short time. Several spinners of worsted yarn, at Bradford, had been working short time or stopping part of their machinery for the last twelve months, and wages also were falling. The only trade left which was possessed of life and vitality, was that consisting of mixed goods of cotton and worsted, printed or fancy-woven, figured or embroidered. The Germans were, for some years back, their best customers in these articles. The large and sudden imports from the Continent, which at first were paid for in gold, caused an abundance of bills on London, and rendered the exchanges favourable to sending out goods. The balance of our exports and imports was eventually paid for in geode, and during a period of extreme depression in the home trade, owing to our deficient harvest, the Gerrcan trade was comparatively brisk, and was the main outlet of our goods. The fancy trade employs fewer hands and requires more capital than other branches. Many operatives are out of employ ; those suffering most are the hand combers and weavers. In the town and parish of Halifax, we have great diversity of manufactures. We have the cotton, the worsted, the spun-silk, the carpet, the carded-wool, wire-drawing and card setting. It was this great variety of occupation which had kept the population more steadily em ployed than in other districts depending solely upon one parti cular branch. The cotton manufacture in his district was in a wretched state. A large mill and weaving -shed, within two miles of the town, employing several hundred hands; bad been standing for nearly six months. There had, been, a tolerable demand for cotton twist for fancy-made gooda, otherwise, probably, two-thirds of the hands in his neighbourhood would have been at a complete stand. Very few of the self-acting mules were at work. There was for merly an extensive trade in low woollens. Great quan tities were manufactured for the West Indies for clothing the slaves. It is but justice to those manufacturers to state, that they petitioned tor the abolition of slavery, under the full conviction that it would ruin this trade. It had done so. The emancipated slaves refused to take another yard of that ' cloth: which they considered a }idge of that slavery, and the trade and property of the manufacturers had been more reduced than that of the West India planters. Quarter Persons receiving Amount In-door. ending out-door relief Z. s. d. Accounts. June 25...1838... 3,704 1839... 4,184 d. 1840... 6,072 1841... 6,169 2,916 2 8 ... 336 19 1 1842... 8,531 3,489 5 7 . . 4"5 7 0 Thus the number of pe rsons rece i v i ng out-door. reliet was in creased 130 per cent. since 183t3, and the amount paid 85 per cent. The number of vagrants passing through Halifax, and relieved at the vagrants' office, in the same period, was as follows In 1839 .. 1840 9 722 1841 1842 2 :9 7 .2 For the first six months. 9 ,182 The butchers stated that the numb er of oxen killed in Halifax market, during the last six months, had seldom amounted to thirty per week, whilst the number killed, five or six years ago, was never le ss th an sixty-five or seventy. Good joints were still ready of sale, b ut coarse pieces, such as were formerly sold to the working classes, in pieces of three, tour, to six pounds weight, can scarcely be parted with now, even in small pieces of done pound weight each. A corn and prov,sion-dealer who had been in business twelve years and a halt, stated that during the first eleven years of his business he did not lose 100?. in bad debts. From January, 1841, to July, 1842, he lest in bad debts 465 L 2s. by 67 people. Of these 67 people— , 11 had gone through the Insolvent Court. 3 were bankrupts, who paid nothing. 5 made assignments. 17 ran away to America or elsewhere. 3 compounded. 20 bad—not worth anything. 4 dead. 4 in the local courts' gaol. 67 A mercer and draper informed him that he had been in htisi-' ness eleven years, but during the last three years his receipts did not reach half the previous average. The first eight years of his business he did not lose 1001., but during the last three years had lost 5481. in bad debts. In the same business as himself (Mr. Akroyd) three persons had failed, and two had emigrated, within the last twelve months. These persons car ried on nearly one-fourth of the mercery business of the town. The dealers in flour and oatmeal stated that the demand was falling off on flour and running more on oatmeal. He (Mr. A kroyd) had endeavoured to bring forward simply those cases which might be considered as an example of their class, and the' inevitable conclusion which he drew was, that the condition of the oper a ti ves was daily getting worse, that distress was now fast seizi ng hold of the shopkeepers and the middle-class ; that capital was gradually diminishing, whilst the demand upon it increased ; that, hitherto, there had been no relief or prospect , of improvement, and, unless some further increase of relief were afforded previous to the approach of winter, there was a fearful prospect of ruin to the middle-classes, and utter destitu. non and starvation to the poor. Symptoms of disaffection were now ripe amongst the operatives. Meetings of the Chartists were held every Sunday, and on Sunday week there was a gathering of 15,000 Ch art i sts, on the heights of Black stone Edge, to debate on ulterior steps. Should the miserable prospect of starvation to the poor be realised during the en suing winter, it was to be feared that the horrors of famine might be heightened by anarchy and confusion. Mr. PAWSON then thanked the Right Hon. Baronet for the kind manneewith which he had listened to their details, and requested that some remedy might be applied to the distress, the existence of which eould not be doubted. Sir R. PEEL—I shall take care to convey the facts which you have stated to the rest of her Majesty's Ministers, and to solieit their attention to the subject. The Deputation then took their leave at three o'clock, and proceeded direct to L rd Stanley, with whom they remained an hour arid a half ; aid thence to Lord Vaal neliffe, with , whom they • remained half an hour, until five o'clock. The statements made to these noblemen were similar to those made to Sir Robert Peel, but were necessarily much curtailed. Lord STANLEY having listened to every thing that fell from the Deputation with grea t courtesy an d attention, till the con clusion of the interview, said—l can only assure you that the Government are quite sensible of the extent of the distress. Statements Ott the subject reach them every week and every day. 'There is not a week passes, but questions of this kind are anxiously engaging the attention, not only of the particular Mi nister to whom it belongs, but the Cabinet altogether. I hope something may be done by the legislation of this year. 'fhe operation of the tariff, and the alteration in the Corn. laws, which, though it does not go to the extent you require, certainly is, from all accounts we hear, causing more elasticity about business than has lately existed. The accounts from the country show some improvement. The causes and reme dies of this distress are very complicated, and many of them are beyond the reach of legislation. • Government can only have a wish, as far as their judgment goes, to take those steps which are best for the general interests of the country. I can not discuss the remedies with you, but what I wish you to un derstand is, that however you differ with us as to remedies or causes, no subject has more occupied the attention of Govern ment during the session than this, and their attention will con tinue to be constantly directed to it during the recess. Lord WHA R NCLiere having listened somewhat impatiently to the Deputation for five-and-twenty minutes, said—All I :can say is that it is not necessary to state these matters to me ; I am quite aware of the distress, and I think we had better not enter more into the subject. No one can be more sensible than I am of the difficulties of the country, and the difficulties in which you are all placed ; the only point on which we differ is the remedy. FU NERAL OF THE DUKE OF ORLEANS. The following is the proo,Tammo of the arrangements making for the funeral of l e ns iloyal Highness the Duke of Orleans : INTERIOR OF THE CATHEDRAL. The nave of the Cathedral of Notre Dame will be hung with black drapery, decorated with silver ornaments. The tribunes will be all lighted with funeral lamps in silver. The transepts will be formed on the right and left into two large amphitheatres, where will be seated the members of the two Chambers. The upper part of the choir will be ornamented to correspond with the nave. The high altar will be lighted with ninety silver lamps, and ornamented with funeral emblems of the most costly description. Three hundred wax lights will burn round the body. The catafalque, with its - surrounding embel lishments, will be upwards of 50 feet in length and 48 in width : 50 . banners will be suspended from the roof. bearing the initials of the deceased Duke. The lighting of the cathedral will be most refnlg - ent ; besides the lamps and the wax lights, there will be upwards of 40 large and splendid lustre3. The- total of the lights, it is estimated, will be upwards of 6,000. EXTERIOR. • The decorations of the portal will rise to an elevation - of 100 feet ; the lower part will be ornamented with large escutcheons, bearing the names of Antwerp and Algiers, and surrounded by wreaths of cypress. Thu centre escutcheon will bear the initials of the Prince, surmounted by a ducal crown. At the height of the King's gallery there w ill b e a r i c h bandeau, covered thickly with silver stars, ducal crowns, and terminated with a rich bullion fringe., The Place du Parvis, in front of the Cathedral, will be embellished by a variety of emblems of mourning, and-at the entrance 'will be placed two masts, 120 Nit. in height, surmounted with black streamers, studM' over with silver stars and. fheinitials of the deceased. The towers of the Cathedral will be surmounted by flag staffs 50 feet in height, also bearing black banners I thickly studded with silver stars. • - .CORTNGE. • -• • • 1 The cortege from. Neuidy will be , • headed by a intall-f' funeral ear, ,in which the, Royal remains will be s fittir.e " 8 wards conveyed to Dreux. - • 'This oar is in the forth of a • close carriage, of the style. of XIV. • top is ornamented by .a chiseled- bOrder 4 . , of • 'I bronze. . The cloth, . both within and without, , ''ii'''' ornamented with :embroidery in black silver lace. Next to this car -will follow the funeral car, constructed with . great splendonr, gorgeously ..ornamented. • The upper - part is mounted, by plumes of feathers, supported,. by - figures, representing genii ; the whole profusely .Ornav' • mented with military trophies, emblems, tri-colour • • flags, &c. This car will be drawn by six black horse‘ caparisoned in the style of the miale ages, each herst; • led by a groom and a postilion, in deep mourning-, • - Following the car will come a mourning coach, drawni by six horses, also clothed in mourning, in which will • ride the Princes of the Royal family. Another carriage, - drawn by four horses, will contain a prie Dieu, on which ' will he placed the urn containing the heart of the 'Royal . Duke. In this carriage will ride two priests, who will recite prayers over the urn. Sixteen other mourning carriages will close the pro cession. The charger of his Royal Highness will be led next the car, richly caparisoned. The ceremony will, it is said, take place on the 30th July, and for the three following days the body will lie. in state in the Cathedral of Notre Dame ; and on the night of the 4th of August will proceed to its last rcsting•• place, in the family mausoleum at Dreux. ADDRESS OF CONDOLENCE TO HIS MAJESTY LOUIS PHILIPPE FROM THE ENGLISH RE SIDENTS IN PARIS. A very numerous and most respectable meeting of the English residents in Paris took place on Saturday morn ing at Lawson's Hotel, Bedford, rue St. Honore, Paria to consider the propriety of presenting an address of cons dolence and sympathy to the King of the French, on the melancholy death of his Royal Highness the Duke of Orleans. Colonel SAUNDERSON (late Grenadier Guards) said that in proposing that his GraCe the Duke of Montrose should take the Chair, he was actuated by the feeling that not only was he entitled to it from his rank, but. that he was the person most capable of discharging the duties of his situation with ability. Mr. TYNTE (late Menibt , r for Somerset) seconded the proposition, which was unanimously acceded to. The Duke of AlosrttosE could not hut comply with the wishes of the meeting, when he saw that the sym pathy which was fclt by the English residents in Paris was of the same heartfelt character as he himself .ex perienced. He could not anticipate the s li g ht es t diffe rence of opinion on the propriety of presenting the ad dress, for whiCh the meeting was convened. It had been a question of presenting a second address of condolence to her Royalflighness the Ducheis of Orleans, but it hay ing'been ascertained tl:at it was not the etiquette of the French 'Court for any member of the Royal family to receive addresses on the present occasion except the. King, that 'idea had been abandoned. Ile mentioned this circumstance that it might be generally understood, that the refraining from presenting an addresS to her Royal Highness did not proceed from a want of respect or sympathy for her irreparable loss. • lie would not longer trespass on the time of the meeting, but would. now allow them to hear the address read. The Earl of LEVEN and MELVILLE said that this mis fortune was not only deeply felt in France, but in every part of Europe. England participated most sincerely in the regret that was universally felt, and he would ven ture to say that the sentiments which were expressed is . the address which he was about to read, would be ac knowledged by every man in England. His Lordship then read the following address, which he proposed should adopted by the meeting : " TO HIS MAJESTY LOUIS PHILIPPE, KING OF TILT ?BENCH. " We, the undersigned, subjects of her Majesty the Queen of (rent Britain, now in Paris, approach your Majesty with feelings of profound sorrow for the griev ous calamity which has fallen upon your Majesty and your Royal house. "In common with every feeling., heart, we offer to your Majesty, tO your virtuous and feeling Queen, to her Royal Highness the Duchess of Orleans, and every mem ber of your excellent and united family, our sincere syrx pathv and condolence. " We join with this whole nation in lamenting the loss of a brave, generous, and amiable Prince, thus sud denly removed from his affectionate family and admiring countrymen. . May God enable you all to sustain with resigna tion this most heavy calamity, and conti nue to your lii jesty His protection through a long, peaceful, and pros per The reigo." .N" felt great pl easure i n e form to the meeting, seconding the proposition. Thehu iloi4 Captainv address va ':"x was putthen Il in due o a f n and u m n i a tr n o i t s n e 7 f l o s r l y hisg adopted.ain p The thanks of the m eet i ng were then voted to the Duke bed conduct in the chair, and the meeting broke up • • A RNIAGn. ASS IZES --- - very curious s t ate. RIDBONISM. —The following day :—" Friday ment appe ars i n the New Examiner of this Evening, Nine o'Clock. T he Attorney-Ge neral came down here last night, to prosecute the accused Ribbonmen who remained since last assizes. The trial took Mace to-day. There were four of them arraigned, viz. John l3rady, Hugh O'Hare, John lice and Henry Hughes_ W e have receiv e d the evidence up to the time of our report corning away, but cannot publi?b it in this number. Some of the statements, if true, are of a most startling character, /and are likely to involve certain ;,üblic functionaries." Who the, pub lic functionaries" alluded to are is left to the irnaginatio) of the reader. - r the pre sea Pu• Edon rs ' id at etiOn .or let e • /ea rre 4 0; , . ." j• ~~ 5t oil ;4 31 elp n•s. ich uld ich of • 1