The Sun. — London, England, 1824-02-27 00:00:00

TILL LONDON JOURNALS. DAILY Extracts from the 31orning Papers, Feb. 27. [MORNING POST.] The business in the House of Commons, last eight, was more varied than important. Owing, no doubt, to the impossibility of doing justice to the great question of the State of Ireland, at so early a period of the Session, when but few 'of the-Members - most interested in the welfare of - hat country 1.1:1VP yet attended in their places, Lord Binning wisely postponed his motion on that .subject to the 11th of May. To bring for ward matter of such deep moment before they can he properly discussed, would only serve to defeat the object which their .Movers have in view, and, instead of benefiting, would seriously injure Ireland. 'Mr. A bercromby, after referring to the Petition which he presented last year from a large number of the inhabitants of Edinburgh, complained that though the population of the city exceeds 100,000, the elective franchise was confined to the Town Council, consisting of 33 individuals, and was only practically exercised by 19. lie then moved for leave to bring in al Bill for the more effectually representing in Par liament the city of Edinburgh. Mr. Stuart Wortley and Lord Binning opposed the motion chiefly on the ground that the Elec tive Franchise having once been vested in particular hands, it ought not to be removed without some eminent instance of misconduct being proved, which had neither been done nor even attempted. Lord Binning, however, fairly ad mitted, " that if a Constitution were now to bu granted, it would not enter into his head to give the Constitution of Scotland to any country as a model of theoretical perfection, and that were Scotland 'to - be wholly separated from England the case would be as different as light was from dark, and he would allow that important changes might be necessary." The motion, after having been supported by Lord J. Russell, Sir John Newport, and Mr. Kennedy, was put to the vote and rejected by a majority of 99 to 75.—The House then went into a Committee on the Post age Rate Bill, when it was agreed that Bankers should be.eeabled to convey Bank Notes in let ters not less than six ounces weight at a reduced postage. [MORNING CHRONICLE.] We are not surprised at the result of the Mo tion of Mr. Abercrombie for an extension of the Elective Franchise to the respectable citizens of Edinburgh, nor at the sort of arguments urged in support of the existing state of things. Scotland has no popular Representation, and will never obtain a popular Representation till the Empire at large is reformed. 'Though we should wish to see the inhabitants of the great cities of Scot land enabled to return to Parliament men pos sessed of their confidence, and able to repre sent them fairly in Parliament, we confess we should be sorry to see Scotland assimilated to England with respect to the elective franchise. England at present pays, in the restrictions of a hundred kinds imposed on the people with a view to command elections, a heavy tax from which Scotland is exempted. If the election system of England were what it ought to be, that is, if the franchise were so extensive that it could not be commanded by corrupt means, these restrictions would be unnecessary. As it is, they- are inevitable. We do not mean to say, that, defective as the English Representation is, the country is not much better with it than it could possibly be without it ; hut, then, Scot land enjoys all that benefit without paying the corresponding taxes. An assimilation of Scot land to England would only subject Scotland to the inconveniencies of the South, without im proving the condition of England. We should be sorry to see the tenantry of Scotland, who are well-informed and high-minded men, sub jected to the mortification of appearing at the hustings at the back of their Landlords, and ran k e d as it were with servants, as the tenantry of ' England are. When the repre sentation of the country is reformed on a comprehensive plaH, it will be necessary to in clude Scotland. But vt e should be sorry, under the guise of a benefit, to degrade the people of that country. It would, as we have observed, be an undoubted benefit to open the great towns; and to open Edinburgh was all that Mr. A ber crumbie at present wished to do ; but before we approve of any further alteration, we should like to see that it would really be beneficial to those for whose good it is intended. At present the corruption is confined to Teri few persons; and we should lie sorry to see it as extended as it is in England. [liityrisit PREss.] Mr. Martin was unsuccessful in his second at tempt at legislation last night. Ile brought his bear unmuizled into the 'louse, but he could not make him dance, or tie the bull to the stake.— His bill to prevent the classic and humane sports of bull and bear baiting, with a touch of sym pathy also for his friends the badgers, was unfor tunately lost ; and the dog " Billy," and the combative monkey, " Jaco Macao," will thus again appear in " Charley Eastup's" crowded arena, applauded by butchers, knighti of the fancy, and the light-lingered artists commonly called pickpockets. The Member for Galway will, in consequence of this disaster, have all his sympathies limited to Smithfield, where he has al ready been really useful ; and there his atten tion may still do mud' good. Sir Robert Heron was humorously severe upon Mr. Martin's phi lanthropy, which, to say the truth, was not quite •ft subject for British legislation, though Acts of Parliament had hitherto passed unopposed,' the spirit of which was nothing near so humane, and the objects of them much more Unworthy.We would direct Mr. Mar tin's honest zeal to the Landlord and Tenant Act of Ireland, and to the remedy of many of the Miseries to which his own constituents and the peasantry of Ireland are now subject these are evils with which he must be well acquainted, and ah attention to Which would be honourable to him, and too serious to he followed with ridi cule. Why will he pass these by =-- scenes of real, heartfelt suffering—and consume his own time and that of the House with the farce of 46 bulls and bears i" He might leave them to the speculators of 'Change-alley. Sed de gustibus non est disputandum—there is no accounting for tastes ; and Mr. Martin seems to have a peculiar gusto for this °rare" legislation. [MORNING HERALD. The controversy respecting the tread-mill ap pears to be brought to a conclusion. It is dif ficult, if not impossible, to resist the evidence in its favour which has been laid before Parliament. f3y an order of the Home Secretary, the visiting Magistrates and Surgeons of gaols,in some twenty counties, have been called upon for their opi nions upon inquiry made, and all, without ex ception, have replied that experience proves the tread-mill not merely not injurious, but conducive to health, as well as discipline. It is true, the prisoners appear to be of a different opinion —and they, no doubt, must be admitted to know something of the matter. But still they may be fairly suspected of prejudice ; and there is, we apprehend, more of naivete than force in the argument founded upon their protestations. lt may even be urged that the outcry against the tread-mill is the best proof of its efficacy. The horror which it excites is, after all, not that kind of horror which calls for sym pathy or commiseration. The convict consigned from the bar to the tread-mill should not be re garded as a fellow-creature approaching a punish ment so horrible as to inspire compassion in stead of crime, but as a depraved culprit, regret ting laziness and vagabondage, and contrasting it with the approach of labour and confine ment. The question is, whether the tread-mill for a long term of years, or for life, might not be usefully substituted for transportation, and even for the punishment of death in certain cases ? Would not many of the convicts who re ceive sentence of transportation with hardened bravado, and some even with content, afford a better example of terror were they consigned to labour and confinement, and public shame ? It is absurd to urge humanity on such a subject. There are no claims upon it—always supposing that the punishment be duly proportioned to the crime. But it would be even preposterous to talk of humanity, when the law, as it stands in this country, is so prodigal of the punishment of death. It is true that the punishment of the tread-mill should be inflicted with a due regard to proper cases of exemption. But this is an ob- jection that may be made to any punishment in flicted for the preservation of prison discipline. The most serious objection to it is removed, or will soon be removed, by a Bill—that of its ap plication to prisoners before trial. Undoubtedly, no labour carrying shame or infamy with it should be exacted from a person who may turn out to be innocent, and who is so in the eye of the law un til conviction has taken place. [NEW TIMES] The financial ability requisite for abolishin g so vast a weight of taxation, without involving a country in absolute confusion and bankruptcy, is undoubtedly deserving of high admiration.— But, it said, the Government ought not to boast of its lenity in doing this. Assuredly it ought not ; and the insinuation that it ever did make such a boast is the height of unfairness. Lenity is she wn in the forbearance to inflict penalties or to enforce payment of debts ; but when did any 13rithih Parliament, or any British Minister, presume to inflict taxes as a puuislunent, or to claim them as a d•bt ? Under a free constitutional Government, like our own, the Ministers are the stewards of the nation, and they claim no other merit than what results from the fairand honest discharge of their steward ship. It is their duty to consider, according to the variable change of circumstances, what parts of the financial burthen will best admit of allevia- tion. Iu preceding years they have chiefly felt themselves called upon to relieve the agricultu ral interest. With this view principally they re pealed the Property Tax, the Duties on Malt and Salt, and great part of the Assessed Taxes. The object of the present Budget is rather to favour the trading interest. But nothing can be easier than to say, %shy did you not abolish this Tax rather than that ? The answer is, we made our election with a view to the common good. Why remit part of the Duties on Coals ? Because Pe titions against those Duties were presented from very large masses of the population. Because The 7'imes itself had repeatedly urged such a re mission. Again, why withold the bounties on the Herring and Whale Fisheries ? Because the measure appears to be sound in principle; and because The Times confesses that it has heretofore " spoken favourably of the measure." Can there be a more barefaced proceeding than for a Journalist to confess that he recommend ed a measure (such as that applied to the silk and woollen trades) which necessarily involve a change in " the commercial usages of the nation with respect to importation and exporta tion," and then, when it is adopted by the Minister, to turn round and abuse it solely be cause it changes those commercial usages ? We have surely said enough to prove the total want of candour shewu in this attack on the financial Exposé. The speech of Mr. Robinson, in which its principles and details were so clearly developed, will long remain as an example of clearness in statement and soundness in reason ing ; and the few, solitary, discontented critics that carp at it Will find themselves, after all their efforts, in the situation of the Viper that gnawed the file.. [THE TIMES.] We are convinced that a manly effort of the people is all that is necessary at present to pefF away the weak delusive plan of finance produced by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and to substitute in its stead the sensible repeal of some heavy tax or taxes; and we are fur ther convinced, that without that effort, the people have seen an end of the relief proposed to be afforded to them by the diminution of their burdens. Here we are to stand, and from this point, if any unfortunate occurrence takes place, , provoking us to draw the sword again, we are to begin to be taxed anew. 1f ) therefore, there ever was an occasion for bestirring ourselves, that occasion is arrived. While Ministers went on. in the work of unburdening us, however slowly and unwillingly they proceeded, we might retain ourselves ; but when they stop short, it is time for us to move. The use, indeed, to which they were going to apply the sums now extorted from us, show that they considered the fund upon which they draw—namely, our taxes—as liable to no farther diminution. But with respect to the scheme of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, we assert it to be a scheme of the most novel and portentous nature in its chief features, and to be, in truth, no finance measure at all, nor one which can with any propriety be introduced into tine Budget. We know very well what the imposition or repeal of a tax is. By the former, so much money (of which an estimate is always required and given) is taken from tine people ; and by the latter, so much remitted to them. Now, compare this description with the proposed measures of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, respecting the silk and the wool trades. He starts a new theory for our commerce in these articles : and upon this theory he says he is willing to risk the loss of 350,0001. from the wool-dealers, and 460,0001. from the silk-manufacturers ; but does he mean to say that those sums (as is the case in every repeal or diminution of a tax) are respectively remitted to the dealers mention ed ? Does he say that he remits any thing to them ? He limits his own losses to a specific sum. Does he say that he can so limit the losses of the wool-dealers and silk-manufacturers ? or that he can even secure those persons from ruin ? We ask him—and we defy him to give us an answer—whether he calls his measure the imposition or the remission of burdens to British subjects ? The application of three hundred thousand pounds (iet any one calculate in his mind what a sum that is, and for repairs, too) to be expended on Windsor Castle, is an insult to the nation. On looking back over the Civil Lists, and the Debates on the Droits of Admiralty, sums of money for the repair of Royal Palaces meet our eyes every where. But what is more to our present purpose, we find in the Civil List of 1816, attached to the sum of 40,0001., demanded for the repairs of all the Pa laces, Windsor included, the following note : " It is also proposed, in the event of any new " buildings being to be undertaken, or any very 44 extensive repairs beyond what the present' 44 estimate is calculated to cover, that an esti " mate of the expence shall be submitted " to Parliament previously to the commence ment of the works, in order that their stun cc tion for the same may be obtained, and 44 provision made for defraying the expense `'of the execution." The works, it may be said, are not* commenced. No; but if the money be granted, what use is there in having the esti ma t e afterwards ? Sh a ll the money be grant e d i n t h e gross—shall three hundred thousand Pounds be given in the lump, blindly, before any est i mate is seen ? • See, however, the paragraph from Windsor. SPORTING INTELLIGENCE. BETTING-ROOM, FEB. 26.-STATE OF THE ODDS. It II) l)Lk, 2 to I agst Reformer 4 to 1 agst l'rudenee 5 to 1 agst Quadrille 4 to 1 agst Swiss 11 to 2 agst Reformer 10 to 1 agst Grenadier 23 to 2 agst Agnes 13 to 1 agst Banshee 33 to 1 agst Osmond 4 to I agst Prudence 6 to 1 agst Sister to Sailor .4 to 1 agst Fillagree 1)0 NC A sT to 1 agst Swiss 11 to 1 agst Altisidora filly 14 to 1 agst Rosanne 20 to 1 agst Elephant. Iv 0 itTff. t to 1 agst Don Carlos 20 to 1 agst any other. IBY. 17 to 1 agst Don Carlos 17 to 1 agst Bakulc 13 to 1 agst Jewy 20 to 1 apt liv.rly Burly 25 to 1 agst Shim colt , 35 to 1 agst eir Grey. tea. 9 to 1 agVt Barossa 25 to 1 agst Miss Jig. ST. LEGER. 25 to I. apt Ringlet 28 to 7 1 apt Trulla 28 to 1 agst Streatham 30 to 1 agst Diadem. DERBYSHIRE COURSIN—G 'SOCIETY'S MEETING, AT SUDBURY—FI.RST DAY. Foil c,upS. Mr. Longden's red d. Grasper h -ea.t Mr. Smith's bl. b. Negress Mr. Hassall's fa. d. Hercules be; , vert's b.d. Lord Rivers Mr. Beer's bl. b. Venus beat Mr. Wh ate l ey ' s bl . b . Wid geon Mr. Crockett's bl. and w. d. -ogul beat Mr. Sneyd's bl.b. H ebe Mr. Lloyd's rd. d. Beliario lJeat Mr. R. Crockett's bl. b. Sylph Mr. Nielson's W. b. Smoker brat Mr. Davenport's Dimple Mr. Hope's bl. b. ?...iquib beat Mr. Dicken's bl. p. d. Blucher Mr. Hoskins's Colchicum beat Mr. Asbury's Valiant onE,AT DOVEIIIDGE STANICS. Mr. Calvert's b. (1,. 'Popham beat Mr. Dicken's bl. b. Nimble Mr. Worthingtors's b. Swallow beat Mr. R. Crockett's Philo Tarnworth's, b. d. Brief beat Mr. Hoskind's r. d. Capsicum Mr. Whateley . 's bl.b. Wildgoose beat Mr-Longden's b.d.Remus TUE PUPPY CUPS. Mr. Calyer t's blk. d. Charcoal beat Mr. Hope's Harlequin Mr. it. C rockett's r. d. Moscow beat Mr. Hassall's Heorino Mr. Dawenport's bl. d. Dancer beat Mr. Asbury's tickled b. Fly Mr. Lviagden's bl. b. Swallow beat Mr. Whateley's Waterhen Mr. Worthington's bl. b. Puff beat Mr. Nixon's wh. d. Tramp Mr. 'Kendall's bl. and wh. b. Juliet beat Mr. Lloyd's Marygold Mr. Hoskin's bl. d. Capricorn beat Lord Tamworth's Minna Crockett's wh. d. Peruvian beat Mr. Dicken's bl. d. Ryder HOUSE OF COMMONS, FEB. 26. BEAR BAITING. Mr. R. MARTIN rose to move for a Committee to inquire into the question of how far the indulgence in cruel sports tended to demoralize the people. He conceived that when man first had dominion over the animal creation it was given him as a sort of trust, which bound him to treat all animals with as much kindness as was consistent with their nature and the uses to which they were placed. He contended that it was a libel on the Aristocracy to compare their sporting pursuits with the monstrous proceedings of those monsters at the Pit in Westminster. The place was in Duck-lane, and had been complained of by the Masters of Westminster as a great nui sance. The manner in which they fought the monkeys was shocking to think of by any man who had a principle of hu manity in his heart. The animal was brought out, and not only fought by the dogs, but literally torn to pieces, and in this state they often existed for a long time after. The persons who engaged in these abominable sports were the very lowest dregs of the people. It was impossible to say, therefore, that in abolishing them they were interfering with the amusements of the people of England. He should like to see the man who would get up and say that the bull-fighters were the people of England. The real sentiments of the thinking and moral part of the people would soon be before the House, as he had Peti tions to present in favour of his Bill from all parts of the United Kingdom. He moved for a Committee to inquire into the practice of bear-baiting, and other cruel sports, and how far they affected the morals of the people. Sir R. HERON rose to give his utmost opposition to the motion, and to enter his protest against this petty, blundering, and trumpery mode of Legislature.--(A laugh.)—lt was blun dering, because, when the Hon. Member formerly brought in his Bill he said it was not his intention that it should extend to bull-baiting. The other night, however, he stated, that it was his glory to know that his former measure had put down bull-baiting. That was, he gloried in his Bill having done that which it was his intention it should not do. The Hon. Member had thus at least given the people bull for bull.—(A laugh.)—Notwithstanding what had been said, he should defend his opposition to the motion upon his unwilling ness to interfere with the sports of the people. He could see no difference between the sports of the poor and the rich, and it was not true that either had led to cruelty, for in that re spect no doubt could be entertained but that a great ameliora tion had taken place in the habits of the people.. The higher classes had set an example which had been followed by the poor, and much less cruelty was now practiced than formerly. If the Honourable Member would not allow bear-fighting on account of its cruelty, why did he stop at that sport ? What did he say to cock-fighting ? Or how could the Honourable Gentleman think of eurturing an oyster by eat ing it alive ? He could see no difference between tearing a monkey to pieces by dogs, or serving a fox in the same man ner. It would be also neceseary for his Majesty to enter into a treaty with the King of `'ranee, to prevent the cruel putting to death of frogs.—(A laugh.)—There must be no more Stras burgh pies made contained the liver of the goose cured with the utmost cruelty. With regard to field sports being less cruel than others, it only appeared to him that the Hon. Mem ber made an exception in favour of sporting for the pot. Mr. W. PEEL said, he thought it high time that the House hould see a stop put to the ultra humanity of his Honourable Friend. He deprecated these attacks upon the amusement of the, lower classes, and he was quite convinced that such suleiects were unworthy the serious consideration of that House.—(Hear, hear, hear!)—He did not mean to say that badger fighting was likely to inculcate morals ; but what did his lion. Friend say to the first persons in society who crowded to the Opera every Saturday night, and remained there till Sunday morning ? Was that setting an example of moral and religious conduct ? If his Hon. Friend must legislate, for which he saw no necessity, he would advise him to fly to higher game, and not seek out the poorer classes as the first objects of punishments, while those who ought to know better, if what he complained of was criminal, were doing the same things. He should oppose the motion. Mr..l. SMITH said, that if it were for the good and com fort of the poor to prevent them from indulging in these cruel sports, he thought it the duty of the House to do so. He found, upon inquiry, that the persons who attended these fight f s ms w uo e rca r h e l of the very lowestde a s t c t r a i n p t t i i n o i n; a a n n d d th en at ti i r t el vr y aa de th st e it w ut a e nt o n f and religious e ducation. He thought this was a matter re quiring the greatest. 5, instruction which filled our Courts of Justice with criminals and our ships with convicts. He was quite certain that no part of the surplus money of which the country seemed possessed could be better applied than if a sum were appropriated to the removal of this evil. lie did not think the motion free from objection, but upon the whole he should give it his vote. M r . Secretary PEEL said that the arguments of the Hon. Member who spoke last had not at all convinced him that the motion before the House was a proper one. The argument that the people who frequented these sports were uneducated, might be a good argument in favour of education, but it was none whatever in favour of a special legislative enactment to prohibit a particular sport. In fact the converse argument might be drawn from it, and in the want of education might be found an excuse, while those who had literary and other amuse ments ought to become the first objects of his Hon. Friend's legis lative warfare. It was argued that the dominion given to man over brute creation involved a certain care and protection from cruelty ; but was not that to extend to all classes, literate or illi terate ? They were in the habit of seeing the newspapers filled with exulting and triumphant accounts of the sports of the higher classes. A gentleman would often be seen to challenge the whole country to a cock-fight. Why did not his Hon. Friend put that down ?—(Mr. Martin said across the table that he intended to do so.)—H e dared say that his Hon. Friend would go on upon every individual case that came within his know ledge. First he would come with a story of a cock, and then with a story of a bull.—(Laughter.)—The subject was really one not deserving the attention of the House. Ile thought it was better that they should not condescend to that prying, inter fering spirit.—(Hear, hear !)—Perhaps it might be shown that thete was some advantage in such proceedings ; in the case of the regulations on the continent with regard to entering and leaving towns, there might be some advantages of policy. Yet he liked to see England as i t was. H e lik e d to see the free luxuriant plant in all the vigour of its natural growth, and not cut down into the fanciful forms and shapes which his lion. Friend's humanity would devise. The subject was absolutely unfit for the grave attention of Parliament. He knew its powers of enquiry were unlimited, and it had been compared to the elephant, who, with his proboscis could tear up the rooted oak, or pick from the earth the minutest thing. But Lt would ill become the dignity of the House to stoop to so minute a subject as the present for legislation. He assured his Hon. Friend that he acted from a sense of duty, and opposed the mo tion, because the dignity of that House, as well he believed as the interest of the brute creation, required that they should re fuse to enter into the inquiry. Mr. R. MARTIN replied, his answer to the question of why he did not propose putting down field sports was, that lie saw a material difference between them and the monstrous cruelties which he desired to abolish. According to the argu ment that there was no such difference, his Right Hon. Friend whom he knew to be fond of shooting, might with perfect consistency appear at the pit in Westminster. Besides, his not being able to effect complete good was no argument against his doing as much as he could. His Right Honourable Friend, he knew, was very laudably addicted to devotion.-- (A laugh.)—He knew he was very much in the habit of going to church, and he would ask him what he was in the habit of hearing from the pulpit ? Most learned Divines inculcated the doctrines of charity and humanity ; but after that night they might no longer think that the road to preferments. He had one reason for not pressing a division, and that was, ten derness for the House. If there should be a majority against him, and the list was given to the public, it would not be a thing at all creditable to the House, and therefore he should withdraw his motion. MA.TCIIES. Mr. Nixon's wh.d.Tartarbea•tMr.Lloyd's blk.andwh.d.Dymoke Mr. Hoskins's r. d. Counts beat Mr. Lloyd's brin. b. Agatha Mr. Kendall's b. d. Tartar heat Mr. It. Crockett's b.b. Martha Mr. Hassall's r. d. Hamlet beat Mr. Dicken's h. d. Tippoo Mr. Hill's Spectre beat Mr. Hoskins's Conundrum Mr. Calvert's Blucher apt Mr. Harding's Pyramus—unde cided Mr. Hoskins's Crowflower agst Mr. Mollineux's Moscow--un. decided. HUNTING INTELLIGENCE. MEETINGS OF nouNDS IN THE ENSUING WEEK. The Gransden Hounds., on Monday, at Coomb Grove. Lord Petre's Fox Hounds, on Tuesday, at the Dog and Par tridge ; and on Thursday, r Langden Hills. Sir B. Graham's Fox I founds, on Monday, at Highgate Common ; and on Friday, :st Tong Village. Sir R. Pulestone's Fox IT Rinds. on Tuesday, at Shocklach Green; and on Thursday, a Gallantry Bank. Mr. MeynelPs Hounds, o n Tuesday, at Kedleston ; Thurs day, at the Flourish Inn ; ai nd on Saturday, a t Hoarcross. Sir G. Sitwell's Fox oun els, on Tuesday, at Measly Park ; and on Friday, at the fifth mile-stone on the Sheffield and Chesterfield road. The Cheshire Fox Hounds on Monday, at Barr Bridge ; Wednesday, at Burleydatn ; Friday, at Marbury, near Whit church ; and on Saturday, at; Wrenbury. The East Sussex Fox Houi Ids, on Monday, at Ringle's Cross Turnpike, Buxsted. We lament to stated that the ship Frau De borah, from Hamburgh for A ntwerp, has strand ed in a violent storm in. the SVesser, on the 11th instant. The whole of the c rew perished, and. the wife of the Captacin, wl4O was on board, shared the same fate. CHURCH RATES IN IRELAND. Mr. GOULBURN moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Act relating to the collecting of Church Rates in Ireland. After a few observations from Sir J. NEWPORT, the motion was agreed to. AUSTRIAN LOAN. Mr. lIUME said that his object in moving for returns rela tive to the Austrian Loan was to ascertain why his Majesty's Government came to any agreement respecting so large an amount as 2,500,0001., without having some documents to lay before the House. The letter of the Treasury only stated that the offer of the Contractors had been accepted. He wished to have the letter of the Contractors in which that offer was made. Ile moved that There be laid before the House a Copy of the Proposals made by Reid, Irving, and Co., Baring and Bro thers, Rothschild and Co., for the payment of 2,500,0001. into his Majesty's Exchequer on behalf of the Austrian Govern ment, referred to in a Copy of a Treasury Minute, dated 12th of October, 1823. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, he had hoped that what passed upon this subject, on a former debate, would have proved satisfactory to the House. If the Hon ourable Member wanted a precedent for the transaction, he was afraid he could not gratify him on that head, as no such a case had ever before occurred to the Treasury. The Austrian Government had proposed to discharge the debt by giving a certain amount of Austrian stock • and had we ac cepted it we must have taken it to market with -the prospect of an indifferent sale, liable to every chance and fluctuation.— It was therefore thought bettei to obtain money :'-and it then became necessary for the Austrian Government to apply to the capitalists of this - country 'to raise the money. 'Much cor respondence and discussion took place, and in the result these capitalists stated their riltimatunz, beyond which they woul d not go in the way of money. His Majesty's Government were obliged to take it ; though, undoubtedly, they would have been glad to get more. For what had been done Ministers were cer tainly responsible; and, if the House thought they had done wrong, would say so. But there was not the least occasion to produce papers, the call for which appe are d t o h ave or i g inated in a mistake of Hon. Gentleman. Mr. HUME explained.—The answer given by his Right Hon. Gentleman admitted that of which he (Mr. 1 - 1.) had Com plained. He contended that the stock ought to have been put up k publicly for sale, in order to get the highest possible bidding. Mr. BARING said, the communication on which the bar gain had been struck was made verbally, and there was there ' fore no paper which contained it. As to the selling the pro posed stock by tender, alluded to by the Hon. Gentleman, this Government had no option whatever. The bankers of Vienna were parties to a former Loan to the Austrian Government, by the terms of which no further Loan could he now negociated but through them ; and they would not consent to a public sale. He could assure his Hon. Friend that there was neither reserve nor mystery about the transaction—(hear, hear !)_and that any papers which he (Mr. B.) had, he was perfectly will ing to shew him, though he considered their formal production to the House as uncalled fur and unnecessary. Mr. MABERLY observed, that he coincided in opinion with the Chancellor of the Exchequer as to this debt, that what we had recovered of it was a God-send. And he could not but admit (whatever might be his opinion of the Emperor of Aus tria touching Spain) that his Imperial Majesty had on this occasion acted like a Prince of the highest honour; as he might, with at least an appearance of justice, have escaped from the whole of the debt. The fact was, that it ought to have been brought forward at the Treaty of Paris, and the liquidation of it have been pressed as one of the articles of that treaty. Mr. Secretary CANNING entirely concurred in opinion with the Hon. Gentleman, as to the praiseworthy conduct of the Emperor of Austria. But he believed that the motion of the Hon. Member proceeded entirely from misapprehension ; for that Hon. Gentleman seemed to think that his Majesty's Government had the stock in hand, and could therefore take it to market. This was not so. The Austrian Government of fered stock, but we wanted money; and the question then was, how the Austrian Government should convert the stock, into money ; and was therefore a qustion entirely between those monied men and the Austrian Government. The British Go vernment never had the stock as a marketable commodity; and on the whole he though the House would be of opinion with him, that the value of the stock would have been deteriorated, had any course been taken than that which had been. Mr. HOBHOUSE wished to know what was the actual amount of the money that was to be paid into the Treasury, according to the arrangement that was made ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated the actual amount to be 2,200,0001. Mr. JAMES complained that the money so long kept back by Austria should be so much diminished as it must be by the per centage allowed to the contractors. The motion was then negatived without a division. POSTAGE RATES. On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the ExcHEQuzs. the House went into a Committee on the Postage Rate Bill, and the House being in a Committee, Mr. HERRIES p ropose d that Bankers should be enabled to convey Bank Notes in letters not less than six ounces weight at a reduced postage. The object was to assist Bankers in the save conveyance of their Notes, without affecting the Revenue to any great extent.—The motion was agreed to. Mr. HERRIES moved also a Resolution for the Rate of Postage to South America. Mr: BARING thought the Rates too high. Mr. BERRIES said they were taken from an old standard. This motion and ethers, relative to the object of the Bill, were agreed to. NEWSPAPERS. Mr. HUME submitted that the conveyance of Newspapers to our Colonies ought to be facilitated as it was when they were sent to Ireland. This would increase the Revenue by the stamps on the aditional circulation which would take place by the reduction of the postage. His proposal might also be beneficially extended to the conveyance of colonial newspa pers to this country. The Hon. Member moved a Resolution accordingly. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the fees of postage on Newspapers formed part of the emoluments of Mr. Fueling, the able and deserving Secretary of the Post Office.—( H ear, hear !)—The Hon. Member would - probably withdraw his motion, as the subject of it was under the conside ration of the Post-office Committee. Mr. lIUME hoped that the Treasury would have a power in this Bill to adopt the proposal, if the Report of the Committee should be favourable. He did not wish to pass the motion. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought the last suggestion very singular and Unreasonable. u NE W POST--OFFICE. Mr. J. MARTIN asked whether all the money voted for building the new Post-office had been actually advanced ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said part it had been paid into the Exchequer by the City of Londoil , - -- The work was going on, though it would not be necessary to call on Parliament for money this year. A city bond for 40,0001. was in the hands of the Postmaster-General, for the purposes of the Act. Mr. BARING asked had the City contributed their share originally fixed upon. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER answered in the affirmative. Mr. Alderman WOOD said the City was full 100,0001. out of pocket. The Motion was then withdrawn ; the House resumed ; and the Report was ordered to be received to-morrow. • The Mutiny Bill was read a second time, and committed foe Monday. The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and at Half-past Ten the House adjourned. MEETING OF SURREYMAGISTRATES. Yesterday the Adjourned Sessions for the County_ of Surrey w as h e ld at t h e S ess i ons House, Newington- The Hon. GREY BENNET presided as Chairman. Besides the County Members, a very full attendance of the other Gen tlemen in the Commission were present. The object of the Meeting was to discuss and settle the rake and regulations for the government of the county prisons, form ed under the restriction of a recent Act of Parliament for the management of prisons generally. Mr. RANDLE JACKSON, in alluding to the time appropriat ed to the education of the juvenile prisoners, said, it was the desire of the Chaplains of the House of Correction at Brixton, that a greater discretionary power should be given - to the visit ing Magistrates in order that those yo u ht s w h o were wor ki n g at the tread-mill for the stipulated number of 'hours restricted by the regulations, might be taken from their labour, for a cer tain portion of that time, for the purpose of being educated and instructed in their religious and moral duties. Mr. BRISCOE supported the proposal, and after some con versation, it was discovered that by the rules as they stood, this power wal*4 dready vested in the Ill'agistrates. On the subject of the quantum of punishment inflicted in discriminately by working at the mill, Mr. HOLME SUMNER said, that the Report of the Prison Discipline Society, lately published, had treated the subject in a very judicious and scientific manner. In allusion to the dietary table established in the prison, the same Gentleman observed, that he could not help thinking, that in the prisons, as they were now conducted, many of the pri soners received more comforts and l uxur i es whilein confine ment, than while at large. A discussion of some length took place on the Bench, on the propriety or legallity of putting persons to a compulsory la bour, who were only committed for trial, on which The Hon. GREY BENNET observed, that the Secretary of State had coincided with him that it was contrary to the inten tions of the Legislature that prisoners should be put to the tread-mill before trial. Mr. H. SUMNER throught that by the improved mode of discipline about to be adopted, punishment might be appor tioned according to the scale of crime. The Court afterwards proceeded with the examinatiou of the other regulations, after which the Meeting adjourned. BIRTHS. On the 23d inst., at Dundalk (Ireland), the Lady of Jame* J. Brett, Esq., of the 7th (or Princess Royal's) Dragoola Guards, of a son. _ On the 26th inst., Mrs. Hulk, of Laurence Pountshey-lancf of a daughter. On the 26th inst., at Lower Tooting, Surrey, Mrs. Robert, Hoggart, of a daughter. MARRIED. On Tuesday, the 24th inst., William Mitchell, Esq., of the Office of Ordnance, to Sarah Jane, youngest daughter of the late Rev. Edward Parker, of Durham. On the 26th inst., at St. Mary's, Islington, Mr. James Clark, of Anderson's-buildings, City-road, to Miss Elizabeth C a rr, of Dover. DIED. On Tuesday last, at Brighton, aged 66 years, after a long and painful illness, William Fortescue, Esq., of Writtle Lodge , in the county of Essex. On the 25th inst., Katharine Maria, the infant daughter Of Mr. Frederick Weedon, of South Audley-street. Printed and Pnblished for the PROPRIETOWS, at the SiX . OFFICE, 112, Strand, by J. B. CARSVAIIIS.