The Sun. — London, England, 1820-05-04 00:00:00

:nFIn of tia in year follow tit; 1 if it rnitlZl he reprinted, it would bee still greateradvati lage,a4 it C.roted - thr basis oftlie present. plan. In addition, hewishedfor papers to stow what increase tad been male the'Civil List, and what charges fortnetly paid out - of it had been transferred to other Funds Tire most important, fioWever, would relate to the total expense of the support of the Civil (3overnment of these countries. The soots paid nut of the Civil. List for this purpose formed but a small part of the,whole,. as altoge ther it amounted to shout 2,000 ; 0001. A-year, in clotting the xo,itzt'of Parliament,.arld what was called the feq-10n4., By far the greater, part of expenditpre,was tlevpted, to,,the support of official establishments. The House oue.ht also to, be in possession of some return, showing the expencr of, ,collecting the hereditary, revenues of the Crown. .The. Finance Committee - had ieported that a great saying, might be 'mule in this department rod, to ascertain the coirec ness statement. he was desirous of returns flout the Alik-oation office, the Fee-farm-rents'-office, the Crown-lande•office, and the Woo(14-and for,e,tc.-oll)ce. 'By an Act ot'the Irish I'm hauteur, in the 33(1 (co. I 11., on the demise of the Crown, the lleleditary .11evtliues in Ireland were to he compu ed, and (lie Civil List settled accordingly. The last documents be should require would refer 1,, the teverote anti emol«ment belonging to the •Ducliy at lift Ater, and the other Duchies and Counties Palatine. lie mortal fi long list of papers, to obtain the information he thought ne ce,,sary. L Tle CAT LOR of the ExcnreuEa observed, that the gretter part .of the information required by the lion. Parr. was already berme the 1-louse in different shapes, hitt it could not he collected and copied without such a loss of time as would be extremely inconvenient' on a measure of so nntefi,inaportance and urgency. For the purpose of economical reduction, he , coull . nnt see why it war nectwaryto,entFr now i n to a tall examiria -11M) of the official establishments paid oni of the Livnl ,List. Natty tither offices came tinder the Lead of Civil contingencies, which Wilt! !IntitUally lti•olighibefare l'ailiatirent. 'As to the Report of 1815; l,e thought there 'conk! : he tin difficulty in obtaining a sufficient nurithir of copies of it to inform all whO would be willing to ko throu g h its volupinoi t s details, and he did not 'think it neces sary to rept it. He moved the previous ques tion.- . . i\jr.TtenNtsy said, that it would be impossible to come to a vote on the resolutions of the Chan cell,ir of the Exchequer without 'considerable in (wiry, and some farther communications from Mi- Lis'ers as to 18C'S and de ail 3. Although those resol , ilions had p6ssed last night, he desired to be understood as not having waved his claim to papers of the kind ngev rettilreti, because he was persw,dedthat they Were necessary. Mr CAI CRAFT hoped that the Hon. Baronet would not - withdraw Lis tllO6Oll, and give way, unless the Chancellor of the Exchequer would undertake that the report of 1815 should be re prin'ed. lie believed.it contained all the infor niaton required by this motion, PA RN P 1,1., added. that be would not trouble the [loose to divide, it that repot were repri,ted. The quet!ion was then put, and the previous suestion was carried without 8 division. The Cl 4 ANCP,LLOR of the EXCHEQUER then moved, " That the Report of 1815, on which the estabitsOment of the Civil List in 1816 was billidre, be printed." Mr. l IFKtihV supposed that the'gnestion would be . set at rest before Gentlemen had that Ityport in their hands.—(l-!ear, hear L)--They were to d, cite first. and have the Itt port atterwardS. Besides, he wished for addirional information. He wanted io kno,v what bad been done since 1816. The oo,tion was then agreed to. CLERK OF THE PEACE IN IRELAND. 11r. CALCHAFT, in the absence of a Right lion. B.i . tonet (Sir J. Newport), moved for leave to bring in a bill to regulate the Office of Clerk of the Peace in lreland.—Lease was given. HEREDITARY REVENUE OF THE CROWN. Mr. HUME, in moving for Account' on these Bubjec;s, said, that the objections which had been . urged against the Resolution of the Hon. Ba ronet, could not apply to any of his motions.' onject was to. obtain Papers illustrative of; the other Revenues of the Crown, exclusive of the Civil List, and he wished to' be nri a de' Et t.:' udint,d wi th th e amount and expendirtue: these Revenues from the pet Ma up to which the Report (so otter men'ioned) had brought Mein; the bill of January, 1815, to the sth of Jitnuary, 182 Q. But, in older to facilitate the making up of this Return in time for the appoint eddisenssicin, ))e wmild only require the sums total of the pre, ceding years, which might be expressed in nine lines, and the details of the last year alone. By thus completing the Report to the present perFori, the House would be able to see all the 'alterations that had been made in the Civil Litt, and he was satisfied, that if looked into, these would fur nish grounds for other ariangements than those which load existed, or were to be proposed. Since the accession of George the Third, to , the bib' of January, 1813, the votes-to the Civil List amount ed to fitty-three millions ; and nearly nine mil lions more wet e charged on the Consolidated Fund, which constituted essentially a portion of the former as regulated at the accession. The manner of charging salaries and allowances on different funds was product ice of great complexity. The Speaker, for instance, had 15901. from one fund, and so much more from another. Would it not be much better to have these things sim plified ? But instead of that, the Fee Fund paid particular services from four or five diffetent sources, and all of those must have establishments to keelOivir perolexed accounts. On these grounds he -could not contemplate any opposition from the 'Bight Hon. Chancellor of the Exchequer, but = expected that he would permit the !louse to 4a:ie the whole cxpeoce of the late reign before them in one view. For this purpose he oderen live Resolutions for their approval. On putting•the first of these, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER observed, that it appeared to him to he liable to the same ob;ection as those of the Hun. Baronet. icy tai the grertter part of 'll;e4e accounts w er e al.caoy before the Mouse. Neither were the tc:rtaintler neeeby,ry, for the Act of 1816 provided that it the expenditure of the Civil List ;should ever exceed the sum, limited, 1,100,0001, an account thereof must be laid before Parliament within 30 days.— It the Hon. Gentleman;' therefore, meant to say that Ministers had violated that Act, let him bring forward the charge ; be was prepared to answer him. If theri had been no excesi,,and be declared there . hati nor•-if the issues bad been re gular as determined by the Legislature, then what Opuntia had the Hon Gentleman fdr'his - motion ! He concluded by moving the previous question. ftlr. Hume considered the answer as unfair. — The settlement of the Civil List had been twice altered, and Ministers had not always'atterkd t o Acts of Parl i ament ; so far from it, that above three millions bed been voted to make, up for t i beir violations. He'hoped the House wiluld not allow his motion to be rejected its this manner, hut assist him in dividing to procure the !infor mation so necessary for their instruction previous to voting the new Civil List . Mr. HusmssoN said, the Hon. Gentleman had , Otis night bros'ched an entirely new Parliame6tary doctrine on the subject of the Hereditary Reve nues of the Crown. Ever since he bad the-honour .if a seat in that Hriuse, anti'long' before, N very Opposite feeling had been cherished, and an oppo site course pursued in respect to this Subject. Their was indeed high authority on the other side at the House against the Hon. Gentl man. hux declarect, that lie did not consider himself at liberty to call for such accounts, unless there was an increase cif the ex"pcOditure allowed by Pat ha- Ment, and the Crown 'came to theM fOr a further grant. But the Atm. Gentleman would have the Most minute inquiry noW, now when no angmeu tjation was sought ; alld'oll the contrary, when it aupeared that if an increase tit no -snore than 16,0001. had taken place; the 'whole ot these cc counts must have been submitted to investigation. There having been no excess, and nolhing being asked on the part of the Crown, he put it to the House if it were cowisteat with the respect here totote shown by Parliament to the Thinne, to de viate from .the Uniform system that had been pot sued, and call for the particulars of the applica tion of the 'loyal income? As the arrangements of 1816 bad been observed, and the exptntliture kept within the estimate, and as the Hon. Gen tleman possessed all the information requisite for inaking the new settlement, he could neither think it' necessary nor fit to gratify his cutinsity, by publishing for bin) how much for inst..nce was spent in - .vine in the Lord Steward's department, or any other items of household exirente• The whole question was, whether the House would agree to or reject the settlement of 1816 and he conceived tie Hon. Gentleman's inquiries to be uselessly directed. Mr'. TIERNEY thought the speech of the Right lion. Gentleman a very extraordinary one, for h e had signed as it there was a Civil List in exist ence, whereas they were called on to make a new one. It was on this account that the Hon. Gen. tleman asked for information. The Crown, in the Speech from the Throne, had declared that it placed the hereditary revenue at their disposal, and were they to say that nothing needed altera tion since the year 1816 ? It was surely right, before they took ti final step which could riot be changed, that they should examine the grounds on which they were going,* He had no doubt but the Right Honourable Gentleman stated the with, when he a'rured them there had been no excess since 1816; but the totmal course was not to take the word of a Minister on such an occasion. He did not want to probe what existed in the Royal exvenditure, but to be informed as to the expellees of the live Reign, which teas now become a matter of history. He had observed before, and might now repeat, th at h e could not see how the Lord Steward's depart. ment could be expended. it occurred to him that in 1816 they might have voted more than was necessary. If there was a surplus, they ought to know what was done vk ith it, and On this score the Accounts seemed desirable. He was tar from meaning any imputation upon the Crown, but it 'was not iMpossible that there might be a Crown which would like the sum of money allowed for it better tban'the Splendour of the establishments anti' festivitlei that :SUM was destined to' support. '.Would it then be improper to ask for information linte'the money' was employed ? He had no refe. mice' to the present' time, and was merely sup. posing'a . case, burl e still thought that there was liow ground fur investigating the arrangements of -1816. To forni the new settlement on the lowest 'scale was the duty . Which the Route ow e d to t h e :cou'nt'ry, and . ha would wish to pursue that sp. tem. - always giving enough to sustain the dignity and hnnour of the Crown. 'Mr. 11U3KISSOH and the CHANCELLOR of the' :EXCHEQUER severally explained. Lord JOHN Russet'. said, he could not vote the Civil List ott the alleged by the Right HonOurable the Chancellor of. the Exchequer. The Report of a. ComMittee' which sat - five years ago was rot the way the House should . now take to direct it. Burdened at . the 'people were, they would be ill used if this were the sole foundation on which they legislated; instead of inquiry to ascertain how tar these burdens could be viated. Mr. flume explained, and the Gallery was clear ed for a division, which did not, however, itnure diately take place. On heing re-admitted, we found Lord MILTON ott his legs, expressing a doubt if the present were a fretiMe for permanently settling the Civil List at all. Owing to the great change in the currency of the country, no man could tell what was the value of a pound sterling, and. they ought to pause, or at least weigh every point ma turely, before they determined so important a (pies- Halt a century had elajoed since the Civil List had been fundamentally settled, and it was surely proper to inquire. more fully into it now Onto M;nisterS were'disposed to concede. If they lacked at Mr. But ke's celebrated speech, and at the Bill with which he was afterwards obliged to be sa tisfiA, they would see that there were many ex cellent plans for improvement which had -never been carried into effect. The present seemed to be the time when something 'might. be done, end he would instance especially the Duchies Palatine ;• that of Chester; so absurdly situated with its Chief Justice, who, as %cell as the Welsh Judges, bad a seat in that 'louse, an anomaly in the Consttutian. All these. maPers, the tc.;lc and classification of the expenditnre, ought to be investigated, instead of Ministers trying to get a credit front the public for not increnging the Re venue beyond what was fixed in 1816. He con sidered it extraordinary to refuse the documents asked, and insinuated that Mini,ters were not ini mical to an increased expenditure, since they sl leded that the country expected an addition to be made to the' Civil List. This expectation was in conformity to their wishes. Mr. C. LONG (towards whose observations, while strangers were out, it seemed this allusion was directed) denied that lie bad expressed himself in a way to justify the construction of the Noble Lord. After a few words from Mr. Hume and Mt. HUSKISSON. the }louse Par the previous question ll3 Against it 6O Majority a-53 Mr. HUMP now proceeded to propose the te• minder of his Resolutions. He would, to prove tbe,absurdity of some of the items. in the Civil Li4t—tor isivane, 1,3721. for the NlAver of the Horse ; 15001. for the education of Persian Youths, &c. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHFCWER met these by s , Ating, that the accounts %vere all niteady be fore the HOUse, and by moving tie previous pies tipou theta, which was carried without a di vision. Thelast two Reso!talons referred in the slims at his Majesty's disposal in B.entland, and amount- Vng to 110,0001. a year, which tt.e Honourable Mover accused Ministers tit employing, not to styp'ort the dignity of the Crown, but to contort the Members of I bat House. . - .111 ton these the CHANCELLOR also moved the previous questiott. Ali'. Ilunte moved for at 4 account of the appro priation of his M,jesty's r , served Revenue in Seolitiod, under the heads of Pensions, &c. from the 2d of Februitry,. 1816, to the same date in 1820. On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of like 'Ex- CHIs4UHR, the previous question was again agreed to. Mr. Hums then gave notice, that; not with stmdiog he ill success 'which had attended his awls this day, he shqui fr move to-morrow for certain Tapers respecting the Revenue of 'Gi b.altar. IRISH ELECTION LAWS. Sir H. PARNIILL moved for the appointment of a Select Committee on 'remunerating High She riffs in Ireland for expenses incurred in Elections. The newlaw had been introduced with' ease•and effect, and was successful in shortening the cino lion of Elections, as in England, to 15 days. Colonel BAdwaLL made iome . obserrations on the objections expressed by several Grand Juries against charging Counties with the expences of Election• booths. Sir HENRY l'AsNaLz. - .remarked on the propriety of introducing English Members on Irish. Com mittees, It was peculiarly proper on this occa sion, as a Bill had been introduced in - 1817, by the Chairman of an English Committee, in which there was a clause of the same kind to charge counties with the expenses of erectine booths. At present the expenses were about 6001. i but this sum might be further reduced. Lord J0cE1.714 said, he was not informed what Committee was to be proposed ; but, unless all the Irish County Members were included, he should move an amendment w that effect, as they were peculiarly interested. The motion was agreed to, and the Committee was named. Lord JocrLYN mooed, as an amendment, that all the llembers be members of the Com mittee.-1 his vas agreed to. CROWN LANDS. Mr. WARRB moved for an Account of the pro duce of Crown Lands, and its application, to sth January, 1820.—Ordered. Mr. MONEY . moved for an Account of the pro ceeds of the eight Dutch East huntsmen captuted off St. Helena by the Sceptre. (We understood in 1795 )—Ordered, INSOLVENT DEBTORS. Mr. GOULEURN introduced a Bill to remote doubts respecting the continuance of the Insol vent Debtors' Bill. It was read a first time, and ordered to he read a second time to-morrow. The Committee of Supply was postponed till Friday next.—Adjourned at Seven o'Clock. MANCHESTER. NEW BAILEY COURT-ROUSE, MAY 9. [Before JAmas Norms, E.q.]—Mr. Evans, the Editor of The Manchester Observer, was brought up under a warrant for a libel inserted in last Sa turday's Paper. General Sir James Lyon, with seseral other Officers were in waiting. John Shawcross proved the purchase of the Paper from Mr. Evans himself at his shop, and the alleged libel, which was read, was beaded " Military Protection," &c. It stated, that the . soldiers in the town had been, during the greater part of the preceding week, making disturbances, and in a state of intoxication. It particulariSed several cases of gross assaults by the soldiers in the streets, and their firing pistols and brandish-. ing their swords at individuals., and concluded by saying, that though these excesses were commit. ted, Sir James Lyon had a short time since assured the Editor of that Paper, that the soldiers were not in the habit of getting liquor. Sir James Lyon sworn—stated be had had no re potj or complaint made to him of any excesses it. the town by the military, and concluded this ar ticle to be comt►letely false. Mr. Evans asked Sir James who was the prose cutor ? to which the General replied, the King; but by direction of Mi.. Nortis declined giving soy further answer to this question. On further examination by Evans, he stated, it was impos sihie such excesses could have been committed by the military :without his knowledge. lie had as-. ctitained that no complaint of any such excesses had teen rna.de to any one, - Mr. Nonigts to Mr. Evans —lt was the duty of the individual to have lodged the complaCnc, and your ditty to have illnited into it betoie ycu sertea it:, I have ti n Wed pr,:orioneidg this as shameful a libel ss ever was pliblished. Air. Evans—YOU are out of yotir duty iu prom nountiiii; it a shameful libel. Mr. Noluits—Y not be thus. replied ; you must . give bail, yourself in 100/ and t%vo sureties in 50/. each. Evani 'replied he had nor' bail at the moment, but would send for it. 13 ' the interim he was conduct`ed out of Co4t., CORONERRS• INQUESTS. SHOCKING OCCURRENCE. At the New Bethlens, St. Ci-orge's-fields, afloat horrid circumstance took place - on Sunday morn , ing. A lunatic, named Patrick %Vs's!), an incur• able patient, who has been confined in Bethlent upwards of eight years, by some.. means obtained possession of the bletle of a long knife, and otia side of a pair of scissors. Walsh bad for - Several months shewn a spirit or ennii , y towards another incurable patient, named Dennis Leonard, has been confined in Bethiem for thirreo years; they bad treqw-ntly quarrelled upon religious and *poll icol subjects, and severaktmes had fought, but were ilineuiately parted by the keepers. About a (platter past eleten, Sunday m-riaing, a cry ut IN) ut der !" proceeded from the ait itig-ground, the place where the lunatics who a not out rageous are allowed, from ten in the woe ing till six in the•evenine, to walk for the benefit of their . health, but always guarded by a keeper. Oue of the keepers, named Thornas robins, who was on - the ground about ten yards from Walsh, bur whose back happened to betowards him, turned round on.hearing the cry,,and saw EValsh cutting,. and stabbing at Dennis Leonard with a knite, lie ran.to the spot, and saw Walsh thrust the blade of a knife into Leonard's neat, and be fore he could possibly separate them, Leonard had received several other deep wounds, one of - which split - his nose horn . the bridge to the end,' and down to the lips completely into the mouth; Walsh then tan away with the finite in his baud, and swore that be %vTild kill the first that at , tempted to take It from him. Smith and Batiks, two other keepers, came up and atteruPted to se cure him, but another lunatic, named Collins, went behind Walsh, and putting his arms round him, dragged him to the ground. One or the keeper; took teeicitife out of his hand, and also pail of a pair of scissors, and finally secured him in his cell. , Durink this time, Mr. Wright, the Superinten dent of the hospital, had been called to Leonard be found Nini.in..a situation dreattrul•to describe, ith no less thisiOeven mortal wounds rte - ra rious parts of his..,body, and the blood pourior; front him like water one wound . on baelc was six inches in depth : he was removed to a bed, and expiredinubout fifteen minutes. An Inquest was susuatoned to sit on the body on Tnesdaf . night. Mr. StiEuroN, thr Coroner for London and !s ti flio ivark, and a resp , etable Jury, sat several hours a! the Coal" sit tee-room of liethlem, and investigated the Haan must thoroughly. The officers of the establishment, whose. - chief duty, fur their own safety, as well as for taas; of others, is to prevent dangerous w eapons from grit 'mg: into the hands of lunatics, were completely acquitter' of all culpable negligence. It was stated hi evidence that there were no knives allowed to the. paticuts, except those made of bone, but.that souse gravel and rubb6ll 4304' been given by the Cominissiviiets sit the Toads tv the «sta blishoteitt of Betbleut to Caine the aitiug round, it being' previously as low as the ve , tter in the piece Ttniines at low water mark and very damp, a number of articles hail beers picked out of this soil, and it is believed that 4 atilt found the Lillie blade and scissors tissue. The knife irtd evidently necu recently sharpened on a stunt:, it is suiiposed by Wal,-.7 hiirs self. Ihe joryni,ii went to kValsh's Leif, where he we) lyiu on a bed of straw, with a blanket over his beady;. ire A - 4 3 ' Cbililled, and ii &mut hands and feet. Hr was int ci gated by Mr. Wright, and his replies convinced the j,ority of the jurymen that he was insane. lie swirl be v•Aii glad ha had killed Lemain d, and filen in an incutiercat. strain talked about his firing krimit to death several tautly' and coming to life a!,.;oin. He said htt was an Algerinr, and, then an Irishman ; be had been bin n ninny times and hill c 4 many times, &e. Mr. Wright and three oilier witnesses dr% posed that Walsh was insane at the time he indicted did wound which, produced the death of Leonard, arid the Jur! Fetus ned the tollossTiag vet diet The death of brptits Leo' :lard was produced by his 'toeing cut and giatiiied i , t voriool parts of the hodrwith a knife, by a mesa Li:Mad Patric); Walsh, who was insane at the time hi: committed the act." inquisition was taken yesterday in the Committee-room of Sr, Vinegar-yard, before THoIVIAS STIRLING, Esq• Coroner for the county of Middlesex, on vi e w of the body of Edward Groom, whose deallt ws. caused by his own act in cutting his throat. Ver. dice Temporary Meklitd Derangement." Muftnex.—An Inquisition was taken yesterdaY at the Ftermasonsi Alms, Limehouse, before Mn• UN WIN, Coroner, on the body of a new•boto male infant, which was picked up on Stnit'..l last by a dog, out of a small pond of water in a in Lituthonse, wrapped up in a woman's Li,nty: petticoat, which had the uanie of " Bryson worked ou it. Verdict—" Wilful Munk; against some person or persons unknown." On the evening of the 11th tilt. George Reid, who Was committed to Kirk wait gaol, for hots , e" i boeaking, escaped by disguising himself in big mothei's cloak and hood, by which the gaoler 'deceived,; the affectionate old woman being laid .up very snugly in the bed, while the son walked, deliberately out of prison, passed the gaoler, a, ' effected his escape. BIRTH: On Monday last, the Lad) of H. M. Witrdte, Esq. SW ., mouth, of a daughter. MARRIED.. On Toes4hty, at Harlittcy, Mr. W. D. Wills, of Port U n it square, Bristol, to Mary, secoitti clauglifer of Mr. Rob° . Steven, of Sbacklewell. At Edinburgh, on the 99th ult. John Gibson Lockhart, Esq. Advocate, to Sophia► Charlotte, eldest daugl►ter of Walter Svott,..of Abbotsford, Bart. DIED. On the 22d April, at Bentley, near Doncaster Mrs. Sai4ll Hall, aged 90 yi:ars. , OW On the ith of April, in Great Russell -street, Blooms')Orr square. Mrs. B. C. Jackson, %site of Lieut.-Colonel Jackso"• it , On Tuesday, the i.;ifli ult., at Jersey, .F.dw#rd Moo: as , Esq. late Deputy-Paymaster-General to the Forces in t'' lsland. O . Tuesday evening last, General Vicars, formerly Guards, and brother to Mrs. P. La Touche. Rig ht On Saturday last, in the fiGth year of his age, the 03i? Hon. Wilmot Vaughan, Xarl of Lisburne. His 1-( !i i il dying unman ital, is succeeded in his title and estates b% halt-brother, the Hon. . Colonel John Vaughan . '' Arc i " •• At Mooymusk-huosc, Scotland, on the 17th ult, Sir bald Cirant, of Monymusk, Burt. . . of the . .. . .................. m 0............ •••••:, •••••••••*,...................-- G reat ...- -....-.." ... .'... - ..." - T - LONDON: Printed by.). D. CARSTAIRS, of NO. 19 P w. .4. Ortnond-itrtet, 9neen,sqllare; . and punlisoed l',,V sill SCIUPPS, of loo.;, 'Sou th - Alolton- stree t, at, : 91 °Side tp OtEce, ;No. 112, Strand ; where Advettisement s t. Lettars, Sc.e. 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