The Sun. — London, England, 1855-03-20 00:00:00

k tat toe sv „.. re ; 0 " ef on so . Eo n (the 1 1 1 1 1 v; him his wel te 7.4)sttar e : s h a rms Di )re be (t h° P g raii Lerd 8 4-sr e ' rL rl r the noble t s w iee this vies De Wo e had therefolo golc N ew castle) t h a t, [r. parkill'' n or os• did, it w 39 a loe rai kins f i7sitructd Lo ea this lotto Irivff, (ratio, P.', L the tle. 0 6 00 3 give it sog• . 1 that a n thee peke which he (the so! wisely in °g ee oest moil (the before 9DI )me timecarol ? ar kinso7, t y d said, I t ;) thee of Newer• orde r 3 auto f°r'lilant n o hie au' i o ter, t o the • latter cted p oe t, iro n 113 d a t l e tter's was in 0 3 ei rlo o Al the noble bet, t. ' tempe rate, no t a Loble e 3 L rl 0 chard' t rfo r , 1 w r 3 m; 1 1 , 1 1 7 °' :ked Dill r. chancel/ through °°13211'11 7 m inuteg befpr° f4l DAT , irEsTER- , 0 ,15 .I,i before 4 0 t a tv ' t (1, ani:ernutP cls4oll PrE%lkestoriceole/2 D ye:Den t sa d itClifft) GAS) " et i t i o n 11' 0 tbe erpool in fAv° atition iron' r ~per stag y lir l ; g b 3t i t i o n frool . an d other b o f oo 0 the Pie .at le o f 'a the wh ° tit icOf two Pe 0 .11 1 from f beer aut A o ht° fra il )etition, f the olt, blicad jv Gallery so .1 front .s p . ) ,1 of tb e 0 , goro :NI ET— bett er for foe v‘3s the tine o 066 00 a siriiii , rP poli 4 f the os et c ° o fs ,o a lar pe tit' and• A. 003 o,„, e tition CO . ll ' i r s o f for tbt o t aa P° a. larg e a , en Lo , tib© rieci 31 f ,A INS. otoe t Gover cie, d of I ' ls bli, o rjer t o c ! 11 ;6.3 0° writ/ sog er eso , 1 - p y ar P e i d I t w s es , e t io. ou ld All an d fi '• Lora of ti i) J •Ir „,. ' e t ilt 1,3 a de . e t; )r ler of I ' l o bte n a a vL rv ew Ee 3 iliel, M,l whether m erit into ' • wag te , the u ct der of t b , bet, s ervice - Were 4 he order d C y clf4, the 3sioner 111130 re. bose Und er r do is sue ff out o e ca ,, re for 09 on . bart' IVIC%r a erobe ,. • re. - lis er it Go vern ° bria muS. 1 , 'Afr. it ,Si f '. EIEQ VP , ivit -1° 1 resoltitiol t,,,,,e0, fi l o s t " a 0 ugh . „ 0 1; P‘ 4,,, , 1. steal _ so I] -, pa i in o ur r_ to 01 1', 00 0 i en ter l i it f 1 5 , 40, there fore , ti e,s',o l should. o_ e t i .o s tpoP i to P ° 4 iv o v the hoil: 0 - 00 oi L o the l l I for 1 161c 0 1 _ . ,,, e0 i0 5 , i t j erY c°l. tilt' rj :li ir ;tient o f to . _ i city) le obse 1:Y iffe o ' l ooa ittee, . yr, 11'' P a i : 1 0 „,,,3 $P , 2itte e " ' o ber the m e p/r e ; • the 0 0.4, 00 witui °B , • n d e tai , of that„ 1 the I.° " ousi dcr a abu 3es , 2riiiillg ' a 7 0 ° 3°' L ist in :130 La en t , o visPfr: 'e 1011(' rtb• ; " •01 0 it* °L. nick ast orl oon , L roceol, : sho p 0 0 , t. 6 P 1 11' 'ee: lOr B iderea Ih4,,fetticoii.vaesuine7spap?rs subject to the . compulsory stamp, ' - aa. a portion et the ii1111 , 0:331311 MIZLt CL;Tic -- ! euce of transmissioa through, the po3t-oflico. tr r a time , a portion of these periodical publications in „_Vaeod news in the proper souse of the word. It was r" political news, but literary news, news relating to the 1,1741, medical, and otherrofessions, and there Call be no large that, according to the strict construction of the law, i tl a rge number of class publications which enjoyed partial ! i ltinity from the stamp were newspapers within the meaning of the law, and subject to a penalty if any rrtion of the impression were unstamped. Those relaxa srs tied b3en, however, established, and this was the i,t , te of practice which my right hon. friend found in ex eace last recess, when the subject came under his consi aer4tim If the Government had decided to disregard the f aarlimons resolution of the house, and to attetnpato en „°r,ce.the law strictly against these class publications, in r i er to make its administration uniform instead of enema they must have directed numerous pros cations against this class of news p a p ers , or th e y must have come to Parlia toeaant, for a bill to render the existing law more severe and 4 ". My right hon. friend decided—and in my opinion be exercised a very wise discretion—not to attempt to run :er law more stringent, but to relax it, and at the same ` 4 lale to inake it uniform. The plan which lam about ,''‘asubnait to the committee is identical in substance and aticiple with the plan of my right hon. friend. The de tails not identical, but the plan is ; and whatever ' l , l - ' 4 ' 4 may belong to the adoption of it will be clue,aiot to ,c. but to him. (Hear.) The outlineeef the bill which I all ackthe permission of the committee to lay upon the abler these resolutions shall be agreed to, is founded till -newspapers followin principle—to abolish the legal defini- IL I ' of , and to extend the rules respecting It - e 7PaPers to all printed periodical publications which t i t:Pear, at intervals not greater than 31 days. With regard a2 l periodicals falling within that definition, the pre -1,14‘ Penalty with respect to the publication of any uews- Peo a stamp will be repealed, and it will be op t:aal with the propenetore of any such periodical either Itan aP any portion of their publication or to leave it al t, tattier unsteanped. If they shall • 'apply. to have a pore ic i ) ,'; of the sheets stam . ped, the sheets which are so stamped IQ ' be subject to precisely the same rule, with respect to Thatcontents, as existing newspapers are subject to. is to say, the first sheet may contain 2,295 superficial s h'uci carried by a stamp of one penny, and brate second °f one may contain 1,148 square inches carried y stamp _ ° ne halfpenny. In that respect I propose to make no 'elation, but simply to extend the present limit of o u , Pr ficial contents to all periodical publications which 4 ; 1 . aPpear within thirty-one days. I propose with A , Peet to all periodical publications which shall stamp 13 , 1 - 1 Y. ,. Portion of their impression that they shall be taJect to the existing rules regard to registra al and insurance. The house is l awsre that any person 4: 4 °tts of printing a newspaper at present makes a do ration to the Stamp-office, and he furnishes a copy of nunsber of his paper which is registered at the v a i Naoffice, and the production of which is at all times the , tenco of the publication of the paper. I propose that tta Pro . paietor of any periodical who shall be desirous of el, ping any portion of his impression shall be subject to yapa rule with respect to the registration of his paper, t 4 7,,tbat he shall be subject to a similar rule with respect t„ - Te.securities he shall give. Every newspaper proprie- A ttoy the present regulation is bound to produce two . reties in London for 6001. and in the country for 3001. 4 0, a„a' , as assurance to answer any criminal prosecution or 4' 4 action for libel. These are provisions of the existing w Which we propose to retain with respect to all news- Tl,P e rc which shall stamp any portion of their circulation. te!reasons why we propose to retain these provisions are at for some time it has been the policy of this country sl jaalee newspapers ass distinguished from pamphlets, the a h u iect of separate legislation with regard to securities. e acts which imposed these securities have been amended k ° re than once, and the policy on which they are founded th,Y be considered to be settled. It appears to me that t ore Policy can be justified, and that there is a distinct dif -111,';'°o between pamphlets and newspapers with respect to l iti !!. Newspapers have an established circulation, their ki roation is immediate and, to a great extent, universal, at i the circulation of the matter contained in them is aim s, kceous, flying on the wings of the post on the sauce day th,!". Parts of the country. The consequence of this is, %L.7 b 4 libel on any person in a newspaper exercises an in % Zutaleeons influence, and one much greater than a libel in l e L a roPhlet. (Hear, hear.) There are gentlemen in this l t irc who have experience in the publication of paniph %lea and they know with what difficulty a pamphlet strug at: into notoriety. (Hear.) Attempts are made to gain e m i t Publicity, which are frequently not very successful, lima ` in fact, the circulation of a pamphlet is slow, and th e 'am, and partial, whereas iu a newspaper publication th e circulation is quick, simultaneous, and universal. I s e r eforo think that there were reasons for imposing on a t i;Pitpers securities which wore not applicable to other . 110 cations . Bat there was another reason. By the on -41,44t act these securities were limited to seditious and oe t Paeneous libels and were first imposed for the security a t '0 Government: But it was afterwards found that these k i i r p e 'valuable securities which might be extended to the t e LI, and at a subsequent time they were made to extend t4‘ . tions for private libel, and at present any private per: t e t;illd bring an action against a newspaper, and is pro. ai'ca from libel by the means of these securities. If, there !', the provisions I have adverted to were repealed, the a T ities which we now possess for good order would be /o at and one of the most valuable and effective securities F or t h- respect of private character would be taken away. s e4 beim reasons we propose to retain these provisions with i tth i l ect to all periodicals which shall stamp a portion of their a t 'ression. At the same time I may say that these provi -148 are no essential or necessary part of the plan which I t era PNe to the house ; and as far as I am personally con x",ed, they do not Lfect the interests of the a t :gequer. They form, however, part of the criminal ti e 4t Present existing, and the Government think that t3' are founded on sound policy, and they therefore pro ee to retain them. I have now stated what I think will ke t s be whcle effect of the plan I propose—to legalise the ent rule with respect to class publications. As re rda the Athe ri Builder, Medical Times, Medical &c., they will be permitted by law to claim that ,a4aulgence which these class papers noir possess, though ; 14 . _ sanctioned by law, to stamp or not any portion of their 4 alpression which they may desire ; and the same indul- Renee will be extended to the entire press. With respect to political papers, such as the Times, the Morning Chro nic/4 Morning Herald, Advertiser, &c., they will be sub iectilto the same rules as the Atheneum, and shall be Sowed to stamp as much of their impression as they like to send by post, and to publish without the stamp as much they find it for their interests to do. Beyond these c hanges Ido not propose to go. (Hear, hear.) The bill I ' 4 °Pose to submit to the house will be confined to this. I: fear, hear.) I will now proceed to examine certain ob teetions which have been made to this plan. One of these ", that there would be great confusion caused in the Zruting.office by printing a portion of the impression on th the paper and a portion on unstamped paper, and t a there would, consequently, be a loss to the newspaper vt° Prietors. I have made inquiries with the view to :rertain how far that objection is valid. It has been vratea th at the number of existing class newspapers, of a return has been moved for by my honourable '`e_ad the member for Westminster, amount to 137 , Zut all these conduct their business with a mixed circa -1,14,°0, part stamped and part unstamped ; and as no coni c, aLnts have been heard from the conductors of this class of qt 4 i - newspapers, it may be presumed that no difficulty 4 , 1 on found in printing and publishing the mixed circa -1,4,`,i°11 we propose. One of the principal newspapers which Publishes a portion of its impression on stamped and .a.por 14;a unstamped paper is that periodical familiarly :wa to all members of this house, namely, Punch. Ye tighter.) Punch made up only 425,000 stamps in t he ar 1851, a n d I u nderstand that its circulation is abou t 32 a week, of which about 8,000 are stamped and a i ;vuu are unstampecl. I have had an interview with the , 4 ,7aager of that publication. (Loud Laughter.) My in p",,,'l7 was not with reference to the manner in which that sh"resting publication is compiled, but with reference to alleged.ditheulty in printing the mixed impression, and ° olanager of Punch informed me that there was not the least difficulty in that respect, and that there was not the e ' - ct confusion caused by printing a part stamped and p a T a rt unstamped, and that there was no loss. (Hear.) But 4 1 .arle further inquiry of the publisher of the Athenceum, newspaper is printed partly on stamped and partly ustamped paper, and the gentleman who condcted it „:"ed that there was no practical difficulty or loss in the h j a t t eill of a mixed circulation. He stated that the nam e', of stamped copies varied very considerably at different e,„ 4 ' e c; that at that period of the year when gentlemen out of London there was a much greater demand for D;,TPed copies to be sent by post than existed at other t l CHiR of the year, but that there was no loss and no a.ddi diaal trouble of consequence caused by that variation. . 40 ear.) have consulted the manager of the Illustrated 4 (lon News, a newspaper which I understand circulates e a a,, l 3' 140,000 copies a-week, and that gentleman, who is "" acquainted with printing and publishing matters, gave Ce efident opinion that no difficulty would arise to his or 43" other ne w sp a per from the adoption of a mixed system otatoped and unstamped impressions. (Hear.) But an -1::21. objection, and that of a more serious character , has ct i presented to me by persons who have described the iPoeition to repeal the compulsory newspaper stamp as a t "allure most dangerous to society—a measure which would Ceta the way to sedition and blasphemy, and that would ad to th e i nun d a ti on of the country by a licentious and Woral press, thus undermining the foundations of society cawing the's4ads of revolution in the land. These ex s are not exaggerated representations of the t'a; r' n ions which have been declared to me in many quarters k tlce this measure was first notified. I regret to say that lion d- the member for the University of ,!aford has Bemis considered an accomplice with the Go e'ainan t inetaeiwsdapgerous and wicked design. But I need carthat :Whet -Majesty's Government believed that • Q ‘Ya,9 ands folitaittion for these views, or for any p vrt t'a . clion Of•these 4, - lews ' they would notpropose the Luca ',wll4nteartu it to the consideration of the house. ' tre grey es confidence in the stability of our in "n4itus,..in the soundness of our social system, and in the PaitY, and morality of the great body of the people; and we not' believ'b that giving this facility to the public to ba re matters discussed by the press will lead to any such lquenees as'thaeei I have alluded to. Bat we are not 'ltetrindii'ent reasoning as to the effect which will a b a, : d froin inii/tittainped press. There are at present large a ; :b3 liepaperfa not containing news and not subject to a a tuP, and which circulates largely throughout the coun ry th • . Thceigh these do not contain news, if it was true that t ° Public of this country were desirous of immoral or li :°ttous matter these publications would be found of a Th ere different character from what they are found . (Hear.) Pies is the Illustrated News which circulates 140,0'30 2 Ptes in a week, and is second • or nearly second to the li t ' ll es• • This newspaper is well known, and I need not js' that it is conducted iu a manner altogether unexcep able. 'B u t there are other publications unstamped, sold tit a l ees . price, which circulate _very widely among the toZer classes? One of these periodicals, of which I never rd till recently, is the. London Journal, A penny weekly Deriodical, which circulates I am told, 510,000 per welk, c pal to a circulation of 26,520,000 per annum. That cir mt7l.tten exceeded by 10,000,000 the circulation of the Times, Ti,,t o ugh it W published only once a week, whereas the 1 ,,,,"•e 8 Was published six times a week. I have examined t„'"'e of the numbers of that journal, and I find that they f "ruble somewhat the Penny Magazine, giving some in tato ation, but certainly not corresponding with that fright ill Picture of a cheap publication which tit* imagination of • i np ail e who object to the proposal I now make to the house con -146 UP- There is another publication, the Family Herald, o eh circulates 240,000, or 12,500,000 per annum, and the ,Zracter of this cheap paper is similar to the other. These facts t i' e 'w that in the spontaneous case of a poorer class of ei:"Papers the tastes of the public lead them to prefer a th,tof journal wholly innocuous in character andlfree from 1 00 7" dangerous elements which have been feared. If we Ye iE at the reverse of tho picture we shall find that some o li a ,, rB go there were five or six publications in London, their. Which was called the Town, of a licentious character, and that i llustrations correspon , ing with their letter-press, G e „., t hat these had attained a considerable circulation. ti"emen have assured mo that the whole of that dem ip is Z ni. Ql Publications is now extinct. (Hear, hear.) There remaining of that class. There were some of a (2t''" APP °' on ---. nav to w" er e' i ,t 7 "stana Le zoo' ar . i" j a Itte d tin .0 1 P'r a o ,,ii ? 4 'aili of so , '" 01- t 3l. of eta tocs bec g 1 s of ti o tail l ;it!' i lout; (ni ill io ,49"; e arn sfia; ro oi .i Ped c le foil° iil6 4r 0 ti on 'ls of , ; des it ". 4 ,00 l i (11 -a L tro " es 0 0- osv ear.) 3) 11 , 5 , frooillsi,, , te keo n iiob trio, o f iio ve ry 14 4 tiet.„,3 Ll llci % I aeclu, confide] `.. is 00 .l 44 ° i t ' (4 3 : t othez w oo .so orie nt 9 , or , 85 „ 4 ,_ atp, rspope i.OO jo, i':• e , :::: i r obi lioitst' oft °n prey lt b e ' t• P ob # °I 14 4p „i 0 tbe t 4 ; 4 ' 1 1 )D'Il til l • carrell. i ' t I Z I to tt ovicie , 0 00 ~ ~, e 4oral :11 400 511 0 !- :i ,..t goivi ob` o°oo oi7.iens 11:01'ilaoi' i ti Pinions ee d to s lat" ,1 3 , tle e thj • ' 1,1 be i ' a 1 0 i i'. p 3 "rkbil otl sa 0 , i , , , ~ Xfo r di pro 001( °it ern, o cl 0?' h i ;I l l ' if 1 0 9 ( -" t iril - of f ii 1. , .. 1 .1.1ii fia71 o Pat , o el, 11' ' er I r ° 4 •Z [or tr; ri% 1 ,0, . 1 1 1404 ' ' 110e!51, ' .° fliqfri geila ° 0 1 .,b i: ' I kt ltnt,' • ra tio o f 0 1 1 i• T.i 40 1 , 01 ! ) * vote„,o o , l V -/ 1 , 4 ° 11?:t 1 .-- flee ei i -.0,,,, n ot •' g;_refijetfl'a, e° t ° lo o o $ . $ t e c Tiog ra : ( t11101131;elii:fn ' , i4 il ' e t.l ) 11 1. - 0 11 6-, at . 4-410. 1. ` 3 trioi°,oo O r id qztoj le.P , ily 1 4 do . , io t# te r. Po ir afil : 0 e r ,if, the Pub Ilia tifoif e „o ol t 'etto tile t he " der l !' forad to ho o 0 ,0 There„ tto 'ioof, te viol ° e 2 u pies i , le o reo ill bicll P iiff.,ig 1 , 4 1411 e5. N ifer°Aoo I° ti 3 ' that tge ,00.-, Ctrs ' ''''' l ' 3 to °I " 'O rs 4'' 4 4 1 1)1E ,s 0 (jo ie' 0, ' ko re e r s ' ;then 0 ,00 0 o f 1 4 ( 5000-ittee i fo r p eri a r o d d t.i colt doce.llo ton a l 1, intr o . o jie r t io9 i . t, f per l 0k 0 # hi 4 tiol o 0 0 tl° , ' tho ° d i , " rol° )', el ' thous' bic,.., - _ t ile. ,0 0 (ga .n .- o y l i, i lle 01 ,--0°.131144 tt.erub . , , n e , ~ 4 . . .-triat •ic. 3,4r5, , 1 4 41 r3!.° t'il),!eg, ' : tho Pi ct )nie ll . 0 , '' in sew t bo Ploca,ioo, •r eau rot"°fell i j it' nfhi c , ; Jou A i iiiille ' ll 4r ul ellov,.tel to _,4loeirrpl; Ile v ftbe risoet°oo,!ol e:Br4 po tlY, 05 4• 4 1 4 ,0 ~ thou : 'oolo' f' • I _g 1 )11C,iti.f 0 13 ; ye ar al clAV'c'go (C "ears blioatit" li°r/(iiii- 4, , • to i l the ir of d a lso _d,,,, i and , ',h_e_thiv'oct r ct t, i;eetlf , rather higher class. The Age, tho Satirist, the Argtrs, !!- which eniepsl con , Fier rites! gems yeare ago g ; but thcee have all ceased to exist. (Hear, hear.) And it may be broadly stated that licentious publications in this country have not long enjoyed any extensive circu lation. But there has been another objection raised to this proposal—that there will be one press for the rich and another for the poor—one for the (wealthy classes, for the upper classes; and the other, the cheap newspaper, for the lower classes. To a certain extent that state of things exists at present. There are newspapers alike printed at a cheap rate and are taken in exclusively, by the poorer classes. Two of these were ' called the News of the lVorld and Lloyd's Tireek,ly Newspaper, and these have the largest circulation after the Times. This great circulation is due to the fact that the price of the paper is threepence. But even with these 'emits it may be doubted if there will be reason to regret it—if a class of newspapers grow up which are moral and useful in their tendencies it may be of advantage to have them circulating among the poorer elaeses of society. We are not to assume that a class of newspapers will be addressed to the public which will be tainted by immoral or anti-social doctrines —(hear, hear) ;—and those who devote themselves to the education and instruction of our population will here find a field for their labours. That the present necessity of ism peeing a stamp on every copy of a newspaper is iu some instances detrimental to the revenue is shown by an ex tract from a letter published by the noble lord the mem ber for Leeds. (The right hon. gentleman read an extract stating that the proprietor of a small paper published once a fortnight preferred sending a messenger round to deliver his paper to stamping it and sending it by the post, where by the revenue lost 8/. for every publication.) Under the regulation I propose it will be optional for all parties to stamp or not, wholly or in part. Having shown that public local newspapers now established will enjoy in creased facilities, I doubt much if any similar results would be enjoyed by new newspapers. No newspaper can ever circulate largely unless it be a good medium for advertise ments. It is from advertisements that a newspaper is maintained—out of the profits. Small local newspapers will never be profitable vehicles of advertisements, and therefore they will never become good newspapers. The established provincial newspapers, having large capital and a consider able circulation, and being in possession of the field, will outer in competition with similar newspapers on the most advantageous terms. The newspaper sketched by my right honourable friend, the member for Manchester as soon as the stamp is taken off seems to me to be a visionary pro duction. Ido not think that, many newspapers will be ' established. There is another objection to the present measure—an objection which was adverted to in the other house—that it will cause a loss of revenue. (Hear.) If we had at this time a surplus revenue, and if the expendi ture of the country did not greaqy exceed the ordinary ; income, the newspaper stamp would have fair claims to be considered. But this was not the state of things at pre- sent ; and if the house should ascertain that a contain loss would follow the adoption of this measure, it would be my duty to provide for the deficiency by some other mode Of taxation. (Ironical cheers from the Opposition.) The pre- sent stamp duty produces rather mor - e s thaa 406,000/., and it is estimated that the loss which will be created by the change I propose, that is the repeal of the compulsory stamp, will be 200,0001. (Ironical cheers.) There are at the same time some facts that may lead to the inference that, after the compulsory tax sliall be repealed, news- papers will continua to print a considerablo part of their impressions on stamped paper. I may state some facts with respect to the circulation of the Times which will throw some light on this part of the question. The Times circulates about 59,000 per diem, of which the newsagents distribute 33,000, and of which 26,000 go to the country. Of these 26,000, 20,200 are sent by railway trains, and 0.800 are sent by post. I assume that at least three-fourths of the whole impression of the Times passes through the post, and a great proportion three or four times. lam assured that of the provincial papers about two-thirds are sent directly through the post. These facts lead to the in ference that the postage-stamp is found a convenience in the transmission of newspapers, and even should it cease to be a compulsory stamp, a large portion of. the circula tion of newspapers would pass through the post ; and if the alteration of the law will lead to any large increase of newspapers, it will also of necessity l ea d t o a l a rge in crease in the paper duties, and that will in some sort com pensate for the loss I have above referred to. But, accord ing to the estimate which has been made, the loss which will accrue to the revenue cannot be take.* at less than 20J,0001. Such a loss to the revenue is considerable. (Hear, hear.) But the house should bear in mind that the alter native they have to choose is the receding from the unani mous resolution passed last session and the passing of a more stringent measure for collecting the newspaper stamp duty. (Hear, hear.) I have only to add that it has been suggested to me, since the resolutions wero laid on_ the table of the house, that the plan would be more perfect if it included all sorts of printed matter, and not merely periodical publications. But that involves the question of a cheap book postage. There is the present law, under which, by the payment of 6d. each, books weighing not more than one pound can be carried through the post, and other changes may be in progress. But it is for the Lords of the Treasury to modify the existing system, and establish, if found desirable, a lower scale. However, the Government think the question of the transmission of periodical publications 'by past stands on different grounds from books. I adroit the importance of the regulations with respect to a cheap book postage, and, should the house deem it desirable, I will take that into consideration hereafter. But I may here state one fact. According to the information given last session to the committee on the railway post, the following appears the weights of the different articles transmitted. Out of 100 articles sent by post, letters were only 13 per cent., books 2 per pent., newspapers 76 per cent., and bags 9 per cent. (Hear, hear.) Judging by the weight, then, news papers form by far the largest portion of the articles trans mitted by post, whereas books were only 2 per cent. The right hon. gentleman concluded by moving the following re - solutions - : " That it is expedient to amend the laws relating to the stamp duties on newspapers, and to provide for the trans mission by post of printed periodical publications. "That any periodical publication, to be entitled to the privilege of transmission and retransmission by the post, shall be printed on paper stamped for denoting the stamp duty imposed by law on a newspaper, printed on the like number of sheets or pieces of paper, and of the like dimen sions with respect to the superlicies of the letterpress thereof. _ " That printed newspapers(British, Colonial, or Foreign) shall be transmitted by the post between places in the United Kingdom and her Majesty's Colonies or Foreign Countries, or between any ports or places beyond the sea (whether through the United Kingdom or not), either free of postage or subject to such rates of postage, not exceed ing two pence for each newspaper, irrespective of any charge for foreign postage, as the commissioners of the Treasury, or her Majesty's Postmaster-General, with their consent, shall from time to time think fit." Mr. GLADSTONE -I have listened with great interest ;o the very elaborate statement of my right hon. friend, and I entirely agree with him in the opinion he seems to entertain, that it would be better that this bill should be printed and laid before the house, and that there should be some brief opportunity at least of giving it considera tion before we enter into any full discussion of its merits, or into any comparison between the particular provisions of my right hon. friend's measure and that of which I had the honour of introducing. Parental partiality, probably, renders me an unfair judge on this subject, but I cannot deny that I regret the change which my right hon. friend proposes. (Hear.) At the same time, in considering a measure of this kind, I think it is our duty, as membersof this house, to ask ourselves, not so much whether the mea sure that is proposed is in all respects conformable to our own wishes and predilections, or even whether it is the best that in our opinion could be submitted to Parliament, but whether, upon the whole, it goes so far in avoiding all existing difficulties of a serious and pressing character, and in introducing material and substantial improve ments in the law, as to make it worth our while to recom mend and promote its adoption by the Legislature. That is the principle upon which I desire to consider this bill when it shall have been laid upon the table. There are, however, one or two points in the measure proposed by my right hon. friend upon which I wish to say a word. I con fess I was very glad to hoar my right hon. friend signify, towards the close of his speed', that be was not indisposed to give a favourable consideration to the proposal provided it appeared to 1)0 in accbrdanee with the wishes of the House, to introduce into his bill, not it qualification or al teration of the measure. but simply an extension of it, which would establish a moderate and low tariff for printed matter in general. I certainly thiuk that such a regulation would be a• most valuable addition to the bill, and would in no respect interfere with the principle which my right hon. friend proposes to establish. I can con ceive nu reason whatever why newspapers or periodicals published within 3L days should enjoy privileges that are denied to the feebler moans and resources of those who may occasienelly, or under particular circumstances, wish to give the public the benefit of their thoughts in print. With respect to one serious portion of this question to which my right hon. friend adverted—namely, the effect of his measure upon the revenue—l would remind him that the introduction of a low and moderate postage tariff for printed matter of all descriptions would materially . tend towards indemnifying him for the bees he is likely to sustain. I have no scruple in adverting to this point, and I may remind the House that although the present tariff fur the transport of books by pest is not immoderate when it is applied to the case of what may fairly be called books—l mean works of cousideral:Se bulk, such, for instance, as the Quarterly or Edinburgh Reviews, which approach the weight of a pound —yet, so far as pamphlets are concerned, it is nearly a pro hibitory duty. indeed, it would very commonly better answer the purpose of those who wish to circulate pamph lets through the post to send them as letters, subject to the letter postage, than to avail themselves of the existing tariff for the transmission of books by post. I think, therefore, there is every necessity for an alteration in this respect. With regard to my right hon. friend's -definition of periodicals, I do not intend to enter into that part of the question at present, but, if I' understand his resolu tions rightly, it appears to me that the only periodicals which would be able to avail themselves of his proposition would be periodicals that conform, in a certain degree, to the arrangements of newspapers, and particularly periodi cals that are limited to a couple of sheets. I must confess I apprehend that this regulation will be found materially to limit the beneficial effect of my right hoc. friend's mea sure; and, if so, it will be an additional argument for his adopting the pi ope?sal that greatly increased facilities should be given for the circulation of printed matter, though not periodicals, by post. The next point I wish to mention is one to which I advert with greater unwillingness, but upon which I differ from the views of my right honourable friend. He has announced his intention to propose that the use of the impressed stamp, which is to convey the postal privilege, shall be conditional upon a registration, that is to entail the giving of securities. (Hear, hear.) Now, it is quite tree that at the present moment we have a law of this kind in operation.- It is quite true that if a tradesman at the present time carries his circular to the Board of Inland Revenue he obtains the postal privilege on the condition of his declaring his circular to be a news paper, although if the Board of Inland Revenue was after wards to prosecute him for not stamping his entire im pression, he would be entitled to go into a court ofjustice and there to contend that that was not a newspaper which he hiniSelf had declared to be a newspaper in order to ob tain the postal privilege for part of his enpression. Now, the declaration thus made undoubtedly entails upon him the condition of giving securities; and at present, if a tradesman thinks he can supply his customers and the public with any given article upon such terms that it is worth while to advertise hisprices from time to time', and if his ambition has so wide a range that he wishes to make them known, not only in the place where he may live, but throughout the country, it is necessary for him to register his adveitisement sheet, or whatever it way be, as a news paper, and to give security that he will not print therein any blasphemous or seditious libels, Undoubtedly this is THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, MARCH 20, 1855. [ the practice under the law as it stands t but I must con [ice; rey belief elwa:ys- has been that this was one of the anomalies and absurdities of the practice which induced the house during the last year to do what it is not very apt to do, and what I think it most wisely eschews doing— namely, to pass an abstract resolution to the effect that the law ought to be altered. My sight hon. friend pro poses that this Condition of giving securities shall be retained, but that it shall be retained not as a condition of publishing a newspaper, but as a condition of the postal privilege. But, is it possible for this house to embody permanently in one law a regulation founded upon such a basis ? It is perfectly intelligible if a man tells me that securities ought to be given by th3so who publish newspa pers. There may be differences of opinion upon that sub ject. Seine persons may think that these securities are highly important for the protection of public order or of private character. I confess that I am not of that opinion. My belief is, that securities have this effect—they provide that if the man who has given them commits an offence against the law, and the party whom he has wronged pro ceeds against him in a court of justice, the man who has committed the wrong shall have the meals of paying counsel and attorneys to defend him. This, I believe, to be the first effect of these securities. That is a question of policy, but what question of policy, or what intelligible motive or object can be connected with the retention of securities as eacoudition of postal transmission ? Why, if these securities are important at all they are important as a protection, not to public men, not to Ministers of the I Crown, or to members of this houss, but to the private characters of individuals. Now, where is it important to defend private character? Why, within the particular sphere where each man is known • but if you are to say to clergyman in Devonshire, " We ? will take care you shall not be libelled in Northumberland, where the people know nothing about you, hilt you may .be libelled ad libitum, by the newspapers published in your own town — we will allow you to be libelled in that part of the country where it is material that you should have your character defended, but we will prevent you from being libelled in a part of the country with which you have no connexion es concern"—it is plain that you place your law upen an irra tional basis, and my right hon. friend will run great risk of not attaining the object ho has in view—namely, that of effecting a complete and final settlement of this long-vexed question. There is another point which is not a matter of indifference to me—namely, the question of copyright, for the prOtection of literary property in newspapers. I don't wonder, so far as we know anything of the plan of my right hon. friend from his explanation to-night, that he has not included in his biil any clauses upon this eubjeat. I think, indeed, it is a matter with reference to which it would be very difficult to devise a plan. At the same time lam under the impression that the proprietors of newspapers, in many cases, entertain great anxiety that the provisions of the law with respect to the protection of literary pro perty should undergo special consideration, and should, if practicable, receive some extension with a view to the i protection of literary propertyn newspapers. Undoubt . . • calculated at 200,0001., it is quite certain that a large por tion of that sum would haire bean replaced by the'postafte rate for cheap printed matter, and, perhaps, oven a larger aunt might have been obtained than the 200,000 i. about to be lost. Whether that would be so or not is, of course, a matter of opinion ; but I hope the present Chancellor of the Exchequer will consider the prorosition of the late Chancellor of the Exchequer, and add to his plan the pro posal of a cheap rate of postage for all printed matter. It is a monstrous thing that the Times, for instance, weigh ing six ounces, or whatever else, is to be permitted for ld. to be transmitted and retransmitted through the post for the term of our natural lives, and yet I may not send once through the post-office a pamphlet for Fl., though per fectly willing to pay that stem for a single transmission. So far from any undue advantage being taken of the pro ',meet change of the law by the transmission of improper publications through the post, he would venture to say that for one bad publication sent by post there would be 100 good publications circulated by it. There would be religious tracts without number from philanthropic societies which at present had no means of distributing their productions throughout the country. With regard to the securities afforded by the present system, the right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer had not correctly stated the law upon that subject. The liability to give securities did not apply to newspapers alone. Every person who pub lished a pamphlet which commented on matters of Church and State and was sold at a less price than 6d., and con tained letterpress matter of Ices than 1,714 square inches, was bound to find securities, and also to declare that he was worth 4001. after all his debts were paid. At the present moment no man in this country, according to law, was at liberty to express an opinion upon paper, and publish the same at a low price and in a small size, unless he was worth 4001. after all his debts were paid. These were the provi sions of the present law, but they were not enforced, ex cept against newspapers only. But if the law were not en- I forced, could there be a better reason advanced for repealing it ? Did he understand the Chancellor of the Exchequer 1 that he intended to repealoulyz portion of the law respect. ing securities—that he was going to retain them as against newspapers, and to abandon them as against other publi cations? If so, he considered it would be very difficult for the right hon. gentleman to show- why that distinction should be drawn. With regard to registration, which the k right hon. gentleman the member for the University of Oxford proposed to abolish, he would remark that an effec tnel registration would still exist, because the act of Geo. 111., which required that every printer should put his name and place of abode to every printed paper, would re -main in force. Every printer was also required to keep a register of his employer's, and Was bound to produce it on an order being issued by a justice of the peace for that pur pose. So that, in point of fact, there would still be a full registration of any printed paper, and means of tracing the persons who were responsible for its publication, even if the registration referred to by the bill of the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Gladstone) were abolished, as that hon. gentleman proposed. He for one should be extremely glad to give his support to the resolutions proposed by the Chan cellor of the Exchequer ' • at the sauce he should endeavour to add to those parts of the bill which he thought to be defi cient, for he could not say that ho considered the measure as a whole to be so good as the one proposed by the right hon. gentleman the member for the University of Oxford. Mr. JOHN M`GREGOR would not now express an opinion on the comparative merits of tho measure intro duced by the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Gladstone) and the resolutions now proposed by the Chancellor of the Ex chequer. He believed that, by imposing a fixed charge on all printed paper transmitted through the post, the revenue would not gain back altogether so much as it would lose by the repeal of the present postal duty for such publi •cations. However, the whole question was one on which the opinion of the country was greatly divided, as to whe ther the inconveniences of any legislation whatever might not exceed the advantages that could accrue from it. The great majority of the press were opposed to both the proposed measures; while he believed the people of the country generally would prefer the bill of the right hon. gentleman the member for the University of Oxford to that now submitted to the House by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. There was great truth in what was said by the right hon. gentleman the member for Portsmouth (Sir F. Baring), that the house should take into considera tion what were the wants of the country, befere they con sented to throw away any considerable amount of revenue. He looked with groat concern at the present state of the revenue ; and it should have been ono of the first duties of the Government to have submitted their budget to the house, in order that it might be known what were the means which the Government possessed to meet the largely increased increased expenditure which the exigencies of the war had imposed on the country. It was true that in consequence of the changes in the Government it had not been possible hitherto to bring forward any financial state ment, but ho did trust that in a very short period the budget of the Government would be laid before the house and the country for duo consideration. Mr. WARNER thought that no time should be lost in altering the existing mischievous state of the law, and for providing increased facilities for the circulation of printed matter. at rest upon that score. For his own part, he looked upon this as an exceedingly large - and important , measure con fined in a small bill; and heewas satisfied that the repeal of the newspaper stamp would in four or five years have produced more effect upon the mozal and intellectual cha racter of the people than all the public sums which had of late "years been voted for educational purposes. Mr. PAOKE said the measure would operate as a tax on readers in small towns and village s, and this was the groun d on which he believed the loca press had a great objec tion to it. He should not oppose the resolutions as they stood, but reserve himself for the measure when it came before the house. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said that amongst the evil con sequences of the war would be the necessity of increased taxation. It was clear that if they took 200,00 W. off news papers, that amount must be put on Lemething else, and it would be well to know what that something should be before this was done. If the law could not be executed, and the law officers of the Crown were placed in a false position, this was a good reason for facing the difficulty and correcting it in a proper way ; but he wanted to know why 500,0001. could not be raised from publications ap pealing at intervals of a month ? He held that this would bo the sensible and wise course in the present difficulties of the country. Mr. J. G. PHILLIMORE supported the measure as called for by a due regard to the educational wants of the people, and by justice to all parties. After a few words in explanation from Mr. BENTINCK, The resolution was agreed to, as was also the third. Mr. GIBSON inquired when they would have the bill before them. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the resolutions would be reported to-morrow (this day), and the bill would be introduced on Thursday. SUPPLY.—THE UNFUNDED DEBT. The order of the day having been moved for going into committee of supply, Sir H. WILLOUGHBY called the attention of the house to the state and amount of the unfunded debt for the year 1855-6, which stood at a much higher figure than he thought this house was aware of-17,183,000/. He most strongly protested against the conversion of Exchequer-bills into funded debt, as had been done in the months of Juno and October last. In consequence of the resolution moved by ' the late Chancellor of the Exchequer on the 6th of March, 1854, a sum of 1,750,0001. Exchequer-bills had been unduly ' converted into funded debt, a course which he regarded as entirely without precedent. He hoped they would receive a clear explanation of the transactions from some person con nected with the Government. Mr. J. L. RICARDO said he believed that there was some discrepancy between the principle and practice of the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Gladstone). The amount authorised to be raised in 1855 was 17,740,0001., and in 1854 it was 16,240,0001. This latter sum was subject to a deduction of 591,1001. on account of Exchequer-bonds; and, therefore, the amount which it was expected would be renewed this year was 15,433,000/. But there was an addition of 1,750,0001., which, they wore told by the right hon, gentleman, had been raised by special bills for the purpose of meeting the expenses which would be incurred before the increased taxation im posed by the budget of 1854 would come into operation, and that these bills would be subsequently paid off. The right hon. gentleman stated this on the 6th of March, and he re peated his statement on the 23d of May. He (Mr. J. L. Ri cardo) could only say that the return which has been pre sented on this subject was calculated to mislead the house. From the statements which had been made, no person could infer that it had been the intention of the right hoe. gentle man to have added to the permanent unfunded debt of the country. He did not think that that was the moment for discussing the abstract question whether it was advisable to carry on the war by means of taxation or of a loan ? He was certainly not ono of those who objected to taxation because it wattle render the war unpopular, He wanted to render the -war unpopular. He should be very glad if it were made so. But, at the same time, he believed that the attempt which was made last year (a very praiseworthy attempt, he believed) to carry on the war by taxation was an utter, irretrievable, and unmixed failure, (Hear, hear.) And that ho believed was plain from the operations of last year. As that was the case, would it not be better for the Government to admit, in a manly and straightforward manner, that it was a failure ? He be lieved that the result of the financial operations of last yew was the addition to the permanent debt of the country of 1,750,000/. He believed that the right hon. gentleman could clearly explain how the failure of his plan had taken place, and that the right hon. gentleman would be the last man to resort to any subterfuge to conceal anything of that sort. He (Mr. Ricardo) recollected the open and manly way in which the right hon. gentleman avowed the abortion, as ho was pleased to call it, of the conversion of the South Sea Annuities. He thought that the hon. baronet was en titled to the thanks of the house for having called attention to the subject. edly, so far as the article that is most stacilycalled "news" is concerned,-- , •for instance, the communication of facts, which may generally be comprised within a very brief space, and the language, the outward shape and form of which can be varied almost at will—l do not know how you are to introduce any further provisions than the law at present contains ; but I have understood from some persons who ought to be well informed on the subject that the great anxiety of those who think this question worth consideration in the press as it stands is not so much directed to the protection of their " news," strictly so called, which in point of fact it would be very difficult to protect, as to the protection of what may more fairly be called their literary compositions—(hear)—for example, the leading articles in their newspapers, and, especially as regards the London press, the communications of their foreign correspondents. Now I, for one, am very anxious that, either in the plan of my right hon. friend or in some other effective form, this question should be brought to a settlement. I think what my right hon. friend has stated to-night must suffice to convince the house that the ques tion now before them is not whether or not you will have a cheap press. You have got your cheap press at this mo ment. My right hon. friend has told us of one single pub lication in London which now issues some 420,000 copies a . . week, and of another which prints at the rate of 240,b00 a week. Here, then, are 13:3,000,000 copies of two publica tions alone printed annually in this metropolis. How many more similar publications there may b 3 we have no means of knowing, but I apprehend thatthis statement i 3 far from representing the actual number. You have then your cheap press established in the country. If it does not exist through out the country it is certainly established in the great centres of the population, and above all in London ; and if we aro to speak of inundation, London is already inundated by these weekly prints. By the present frame and structure of your laws you prevent the insertion in these publica tions of what may be considered discussions upon public events, or the statement of public news; and the question for the house to decide is, not whether it is expedient to Mr. WILSON utterly denied that the financial plan, pro pounded by the right hon. gentleman the member for Oxford last year, had irretrievably added 1,750,000/. to the funded debt ; and could prove that, on the contrary, the whole of the expenditure of the country, to the present moment, had been paid out of the taxation of the country. At the com mencement of, the year 1853, when Lord Aberdeen's Govern ment went into office, the amount of Exchequer-bills was 17,742,0001.; and at the commencement of the present year it was 17,183,0001., being a reduction of 559,000/. But it might be said that, in the meantime, some Exchequer-bills had been converted into funded debt. Well, the funded debt of the country, when Lord Aberdeen's Government came into office, was 761,622,0001., whilst it was this year only 751,839,0001. ; showing, therefore, a reduction in tho na tional debt of 9,783,0001., and, making a reduction in respect w o f as the 9, Exchequer-bonds 2oo ,00u i.lessti iau i i s t s w u e a d s ~ltatsht commencea t he i n n_ a4 i io t n o al f Idse.sb3t. have a cheap press or to prohibit a cheap press, but rather, when you have got a cheap press, whether you will give to the promoters of that cheap press the means of providing the people with intelligence of the events in which we are all so deeply interested, with intelligence relative to the working Of Our institutions and the passing of our laws, or whether you will drive them to what is petty and paltry, to cramming their columns with novels and romances— whether you will preclude them from affording that infor mation which really forms the worthiest material for con sideration and reflection, or whether you will allow of a fair competition between public news, as we understand Mr. BENTINCK stated that he could trace a very strong resemblance between the resolutions now proposed and those which were originally introduced by the right bon. gentleman the late Chancellor of the Exchequer. With regard to the measure before the house, perhaps it was premature to offer an opinion, but there was one point touched upon by the right hon. gentleman the member for Manchester which he was anxious to refer to. The right hon. gentleman seemed to think that the loss to the revenue which the measure would create would be made up by the now description of publications, to be published in consequence of the fresh arrangement ; but these new pub lications would be chiefly confined to Efferent localities, and would not require the assistance of the Post-office. He could not help feeling that the change now proposed would lower the character of the press, unless some precautions were taken against intemperate or licentious publications, issued to serve the purposes of party, or to further the ends of private malice. Mr. KIRK had received communications from the edi tors and proprietors of newspapers of all shades of politics, on the subject of the proposed change in the law, which, he could assure the Government, they desired should re main xnaltered. ,t, and those inferior materials to Which it is the ten, dency and effect of the present law to confine the con- ducCers of these publicatiOus. -Determined as I am to do. all in my power completely to sat free the press—whether it be a cheap or a dear one—for the handling of public events and news of all (kinds, and to apply to this sub ject those principles of free commerce which have been extended with such efficacy to the general mercantile transactions of the country, yet, I fully admit that, so far -as literary compositions are concerned, we now find them in our existing press of a high standard and of very great value, and that the principle of pro tection to those compositions is a perfectly fair and just one. lam not prepared to say, and indeed it would require one more skilled iu the law, and better acquainted with the whole facts of the case and the feelings and interests of the partiei concerned than I am, to point out in what form this could best be done. Ido not venture to prejudge this When his right hon. friend the late Chancellor of the Excite- quer presented Lis first budget on the 6th of. March last year war was not declared, aiid he did not, therefore, pre sent a war budget; but as there was a strong probability that war would be declared, his right hon. friend stated that he might be obliged to present another budget before the end of the session. War was declared, and, on the Bth of May, his right hon. friend showed that the expenditure of the country would exceed its income by 6,850,0001., and he proposed to meet that deficiency by the issue of Exchequer °bonds and Exchequer-bills, the repayment of which was to be secured out of the growing taxation of the country. But a part of that taxation could not bo received until the pre sent year. The creation of those Exchequer-bills and bonds were no addition to the funded debt of the country. Some of them were made payable in two, others in four, and the remainder in six years. It could not be said, therefore, that the amounts secured by them had been edited to the perma nent debt of the country. The house had already passed votes amounting to 3,400,0001. in aid of the excess of the ex penditure over the income of the year. The additional sup plies had been granted without an exception in ready money, a thing not usual in any former war. Every demand upon the Government had been paid from day to day as it became due. Not a single payment had been delayed one day longer than it would have been in time of peace. There was nothing behind which could ever come against them as a future charge, a great advantage over all former periods of war. The Government had taken care that, when there was an extra 'ordinary expenditure for the purposes of the war, it should be regulated in such a manner as not to afford the basis for a permanent expenditure. If the expenditure was large it could not be difficult to account for it. The supply service itself up to the 17th of this month amounted to 9,575,000/. But there were resources to meet that expenditure. On the sth of April there would be duo in uncollected taxes—not of the ordinary taxes, but of the additional ones raised for the pur pose of the war—no less a sum than 5,020,000/. The income tax alone amounted to 3,320,0001., and the malt tax to 1,800,000/. No doubt they had had aid from Exchequer-bills and Exchequer-bonds to the amount of 7,125,0001., but then' there were due, as he had already explained, 5,020,0001. ster ling, showing a deficiency of not mere than 2,105,0001., or thereabouts, whereas, on the sth of April, 1854, there was a deficiency of upwards of five millions. The hon. member for Evesham (Sir H. Willoughby) had made a grievous complaint because of the manner in which Government proposed to deal with the savings-banks moneys, but if the Government were not to be allowed to use those moneys for the general advantage of the State, they ought at once to give up the custody of them. Government undertook a great re sponsibility, and incurred much expense in regard to those moneys, and if they were not to exercise a wide discretion as to the mode in which they should conduct those funds, the sooner they gave up the management of them the better. The loss in annual interest during the last ton years, as re presenting the difference between the interest paid by the community on the savings banks' moneys, and the interest which they had to pay to those who lodged those moneys, was not less then 431,6601. ; and if to this calculation were added the friendly societies also, the amount would be 660,0001. Government bought ie savings back money at 97i and sold oat at 87* during the last 10 years. He re peated, that if no use were to be made of funds which were such a source of expense and responsibility, the sooner they got rid of the whole system the better. Mr. GLADSTONE explained that when he asked autho rity last year for issuing those Exchequer-bills, he stated that they should be redeemed out of the first moiety of the income tax, for which he had also applied ; but he also stated, most particularly, that this undertaking was only to embrace as much of the year as terminated on the 6th of Marcli. On the Sth of May lie made the Budget statement for the whole year, and explained that, as the whole war expenses would have to be met, and not the mere cost of transport of an ex pedition to the East, he should want both the double income tax and the Exchequer-bills. (Hear, hear.) The hon. ba ronet said that he ought in May last to have stated that it was his intention this year to renew the Exchequer-bills, but he would have been guilty of the grossest folly if he had done any such thing. It was perfectly impossible for him at that time to come to any determination on the subject. Tile honourable baronet spoke of unforeseen expenditure as foreseen and determined upon, aid said it should have been provided for ; he also treated that as certain which was uncertain, and assumed that would take place which only might take place. The honourable member fur Stoke (Mr. Ricardo) had spoken of his financial plans as an utter, irretrievable, and unmixed failure ; b u t he had advanced no single reason or fact in proof of such an asser tion. He was perfectly aware that all attempts to forecast the expenditure of a war were necessarily in a great degree fatal, but he never pretended to lay before the house any es timate of the war expenditure of the same reliable nature as. the estimates which were presented during peace. After having submitted the estimates of the different departments he asked the house for a veto of credit, and the house gave him a large additional amount in case those estimates should be exceeded. Though the war had been carried on with the greatest activity, and though there had been the extra cost of a winter campaign, yet the provision made by the forethought of the house had been nearly equal to the amount of expen diture. With respect to the question of the public debt, nothing could be more easy than to give the house a statement of that debt at the time he accepted and the time he quitted office. He found that in January, 1855, the public debt was about 2,000,0001. less than iu January, 1853, when he ac cepted office ; but then, in the course of 1554, there was an excess of 9,000,0001. of expenditure connected with theimme diate purposes of the war, a very insignificant portion ol which was defrayed out of the proceeds of the new of last taxes. The hon. member for Stoke, iu describing the effort taxes of the year as an utter, irretrievable, year to make provision for the war expen a ditu nd urenmmitxteodff,thile u„ereed, i i n m g p f u r gl o i m mpugned then individual—not discretion not m pro proposal porfol u the el m er e e l l e y ly of o t t he a resolution house, challenged by a vote up Government—but the discretionenoaf division a iv f i na g l i d v e e e n is a io ft n er o in f e xpressing,tr e e ffotii•lee, yearthe d sh e o li t e a ra be te v ew o f pa Parliament,, consideration m e nt: d a that the expenditure liqui dated out of the taxation of the countr y . If the ex p enses of the e y war bad been confined to the estimates presented last year , wouldt have had 4,000,0001. of debt, contracted by anti cipation, and 5,000,0001. of revenue to come in to liquidate it, so that there would have been an actual surplus of 1,000,0001. over and above the whole expenditure of the war. But the expenditure had gone beyond these bounds. If, instead of . paying the expenses of the year by means of taxes, they had taken a loan to the same amount, he apprehended they would have been equally open to the risk of the expenditure going beyond the proper bounds. His own impression was, that money raised by taxes went as far as money raised by loans, and eves went a little further, because the house was disposed to keep a sharper look out after the expenditure of public money raised by taxes than it did of money raised by loans. (Hear, hear.) He had no wish to entrap the house into the admission of :my principle which would preclude the The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER assured the right hon. baronet the member for Portsmouth, that be had fully considered the financial consequences involved in this question; and he had no doubt his predecessor had done the same; but this was not purely a fiscal measure. It arose out of the existing state of the law respecting the newspaper stamp duty. In consequence of the indulgence extended to a certain class of newspapers, the greatest difficulty existed in the administration of the law, and the Board of Inland Revenue were so perplexed by the different publications set up in defiance of the law owinglo its anomalous state, that there had been no end to litigation, correspondence, and even debates in Parliament about it. To give the com mittee an example of this perplexing difficulty, be would refer to the case of a newspaper called the Commercial Journal and Family Herald, a publication of a lite rary character, recently established in Dublin, but it did not wholly exclude matters of intelligence. A pro secution was instituted against it in the Court of Ex chequer in Ireland, but the jury returned a verdict against the Crown, and although the Irish Attorney-General was clearly of opinion that the case came within the meaning of the Act of Parliament, ho yet would not advise a second prosecution on account of the difficulty of obtaining a ver dict in such cases. In like manner, the learned Attorney- General for England would on a future occasion, be pre pared to show the difficulties that surrounded the execu tion of the existing law, and if the house then determined upon continuing the stamp duty, he hoped it would at the same time be prepared to pass a declaratory act, in order that the Government might vindicate the majesty of the law in the case of every publication that came within the legal definition of a newspaper. This, then, was not a simple question of whether they should retriu or give up some 200,0001. a year, bat whether the Government should be empowered to enter into a crusade against a large body of newspaper proprietors; and since the only feeling which influenced the Government in bringing this measure for ward was to avoid the latter alternative, it was for the house to decide whether they were right or wrong. Mr. GLADSTONE said that, as the chief part of the financial responsibility of this measure rested upon him self, he wished to say a few words in reply to what had fallen from the right honourable baronet the member for Portsmouth. It was pointed out to him while in office that the present law was not only theoretically absurd, but its administration was so surrounded with practical diffi culties that the Board of Inland Revenue was sot at abso lute defiance. Now ho could not allow the law to remain in that discreditable state without making an effort to re medy the evil. Neither the present nor the late Govern ment wore the only parties responsible for the introduc tion of this measure, because the house itself was partly responsible for it. Last y ear the house, not at the sug gestion of the Gover nment, but rather against its wish and inclination, and at a tune when there was a full know ledge ou both sides of the house of the warand its demands, passed a resolution to the effect that the law relating to newspapers was imperfectly defined and partially enforced. Therefora it became the duty of the Government to con sider what alteration should be made in the law, and he wished now to ask the right hon. baronet the member for Portsmouth, whether he was able to suggest or recommend any mode of altering the law, differing in principle from that at present under discussion, or the one ho had the honour to propose a few weeks ago. If an abjection was to be taken to the measure us:on fiscal and not political grounds, he hoped those who urged it would not shrink from declaring their opinion as to any other course which Government ought to have pursued in order to give effect to the resolution which the house came to last year. Mr. LAING would most cordially assent to the repeal of this tax if we were not at war, and there was a surplusinthe Exchequer, but looking at the existing state of public affairs, it was of the highest importance that the house should not hastily surrender any source of taxation. With regard, therefore, to the resolution that was passed last year, he was perfectly willing to bear his fair share of the respon sibility that attached to it, or that might attach to its sus pension, though ho must remind the right hon. gentleman the member for the University of Oxford, that the respon sibility of passing that resolution did not en ti re l y rest with the house, because it bad been stated that the amount of taxation which had been proposed would be amply suffi cient to meet all demands upon the country. Mr. BRIGHT thought the hon. gentleman who had just set down was contending with a difficulty that really did not exist. The resolution which the house passed last ses sion was passed subsequently to the commencement of the war ; but, setting that consideration aside, he could not understand why there should be so much hesitation about this trifling 200,0001., at a time whe n th e house seemed indisposed to fix any limit to the taxation of the country, and eagerly passed votes calculated in millions. But the fact was, this was not a question of 2 00,000/., for it was impossible to say what the loss to the reveue would be. So long a s the paper duty remained it might be m a d e up in that way, but at all events, if the new postal arrangement with regard to books were ado p te d , there probably would be no deficiency at all. But this was not a question cf 200,0001., it was a far higher question—it was the question of whether the resolution passed last session should be ad hered to or not. There wasyeta second quest i on,and that was, whether thelawslmuldbeallowed to remain in such a state as to be easilyset at &Wee. Beth the present and theliste Chan cellor of the Exchequer, who must have deeply considered the question, had coin° to the conclusion that it was totally impossible to carry out the law, and therefore tho best course to pursue wise to set the press free. With regard to the question of piracy, he had no obj ec ti on t o any l eg i s l at i on upon that subject, provided it could be framed in an equit able manner; ho believed, howe ver , th a t it was unneces ay, s r and would be of no use. As for the bill itself, h hoped it would be brought in without delay, to see if the there were reds of house would would pawl it, because its sons who were withi n „ iting issue, and whose operations must be suspended in the m eanti me. Something had been said about the press being opposed to the repeal of the newspa persiti stamp; but he could discover whorehore the opp , le came from. Certainly a la rge proportion of the provincial press, including the - Leeds Mercury and the M anchester Guardian, wore favourable to it, while, if ho mistook not, the Times last year w rote directl y in favour of its repeal. So far, then, from such a measure injuring the press or membersde set th • minds their mu I moralising the people, boa. m ight question, bat I would venture to express a Hope that, in endeavouring to carry out the principle of the freedom of the press, my right hon. friend will lot be indisposed to take into his favourable consideration any reasonable pro- position which may be made to him for the improvenient of the law of copyright, in order that we may not run any risk of breaking down that system under which the highest talent in the country is applied largely and advantageously devoted to supplying the public with intelligence and to the discuvion of that intelligence. I must confess that I should regal(' the destruction of that system as a public misfortune—a misfortune which lam the less disposed to incur, because I do not look upon it as a natural or neces sary consequence of the important measure of emancipation which is now contemplated by her Majesty's Government. Of counsel do not offer any opposition to these resolutions. When the bill of the right hon. gentleman comes before us we shall have an opportunity of discussing it, and I enter tain a most confident hope that it will receive a candid and favourable reception at the hands of the house. Sir F.BA.RING—I am not about to enter into the discus sion of the motion itself now before the house, but there is one part of the subject which I think the Chancellor of the Exchequer dealt with rather unsatisfactorily, and . which the late Chancellor of the Exchequer touched on still more lightly—l mean that part having reference to our financial operations. (Hoar, hear.) The Chancellor of the Exche quer stated with perfect candour that he apprehended that at least 200,0001. will be the loss on the measure proposed. Now, I do not pretend myself to draw an estimate dif ferent from my right hon. friend, but I would remind him that Mr. Rowland Hill, is that committee from whose labours ho has derived the great part of his observations, stated—if my recollection servos me correctly—that the utmost he thought would be obtained by the adoption of a measure similar to that of the right hon. gentlemen would be 130,000/. (Hear.) Mr. lie Hill thought that that would be the meacintunt, but there has been some increase of in coino since, and I apprehend that you may count on the loss of about a quarter of a million of revenue in adopting the proposed arrangement. (Hear.) The late Chancellor of the Exchequer said that he thought that by a cheap mode of carrying books you might obtain an alditional sum of money ; but I am afraid that our finances are in such a state that you must not neglect any mode of raising money ; and you will have before long to consider not only whether you cannot raise money by a cheap mode of carrying books, but by many other modes also which may be less agreeable to the house and the country. ( Hear, hear.) The present Chancellor of the Exchequer, though not responsible for bringing forward the project at the present moment, yet, following the example of the late Chancellor of the Exche quer,has madethispropolsalhvaatao vreerpyjautnofidtly known—andtime. (Gene ral cries of “ Hear.") perhaps I may sometimes have beeu guilty myself of making the statement I am about to describe—that when hon. gentlemen ou different sides of the house have pro posed arrangements entailing a loss of revenue, the Chan cellor of the Exchequer for the time be in g has risen and advised them, in reference to motions affecting the re venue, to wait until the financial statement should be made, and then they would know what bum of money there might be to dispose of, then a full and comprehen sive view could be taken of the taxation of the country, and then they would know how to apply any sum of pub lic money they might have to spare in the manner the most advantageous fur the public good. (Hear.) Certainly, the time to make such proposals is when you are sure that you have some surplus.; but aro you pretty sure at the present moment that you have a surplus? (Hear.) The i Chancellor of the Exchequer has fairly told you , that ft uu pass this measure he must of necessity propose some other taxation to compensate for the sum it is now proposed should be lost. Well, then, let us know what is the taxa tion which the right hon. gentleman will propose in lieu. (Cheers.) Wo all know, and no ono better than the Chan caller of the Exchequer, that every tax is an evil in itself, and nothing in the world is so easy as to make a case against any tax you please if you consider it by itself. But you ought to consider it in r olhai e dlnur f e gletfiya r irinn e nmeoa ll eg, ttnn e acidn e tmafhor a yowaach n ufasi iddesnect Chancellor l a tehi compari sonil:eloinalrmlrtyafietthouttEmefsirosotpiurhttvnahhgei mino rity with other modes of raising money ; and, though there can be . no objection to allow the right hon. gentleman to bring in his bill and lay his plan fairly' before the house, yet we ought not to proceed to Vote away a quarter of a million of public money until we have before us the whole state of the finances of the country, and are the .eby able to take a full and comprehensive view of the s in E u iti onxtt t lydo d ech o eotem c feho fotq7be. one, rtelohei itpifhastai (Hear.)aohlrfiseeenvc proposes, eoepc faaehoo h ser e nel riseptcilhfaoelurs statement,ep after ows , ohsh l cotbilpi w i l l or fi n (Hear, hear.) Mr. GIBSON—I think that the right hon. gentleman pro perwho footing.has last This spoken s not has properlynplacedot a fiscal this mgantoteetri question, it does involve revenue considerations; but, as we are t o b o told that this country is unable to meddle with a subject which iucidentaly involves 200,000/, of public revenue, when it is necessary to do so in order to avoid a vex a ti ous system of persecutions and difficulties of the most serious character to the press of this country ? I quite agree with the right hon. gentleman, that we must be careful in times like these in not abandoning sources of revenue ; but I cannot see that we should take such an alarming view of the Chancellor of the Exchequer's proposition as to reject it on revenue grounds alone. I am sorry that the present Chancellor of the Exchequer has left out of his plan that portion of the late Chaueellor of the Exchequer's scheme which would have compensated for the loss of revenue occasioned by the removal of the newspaper stamp, because, while on the one hand, the late Chan cellor of the Exchequer gave up the newspaper stamp, be on the other, by admitting for the first time all panted matter to be carried by the Post-office at the rate of ld. for four ounces, opened a new s ource o f rev enue which, giving great convenience to the public, would also have compensated, to some extent, the loss in curred by the alteration of the newspaper stamp laws. It is difficult to speculate to what amount this compensation - would have reached ; but as the whole loss of revenue was consideration of the exigencies with the most perfect and entire freedom ; but, as a matter of retrospect, he thought the house could not look back upon the operations in which it had been engaged—and which, in his opinion, were neither a failure nor au abortion—without considerable satisfaction at the course it had very wisely thought proper to pursue. (Hear, hear.) Mr. DlSRABLl•thought that nothing was more important at that period of the year than that the house should be favoured with the financial statement of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and, under present circumstances, he recognised additional reasons for their being favoured with such an expo sition. He -must say he lamented the circumstances which prevented the house and the country enjoying the advantage of the right hon. gentleman's statement. He felt, however, as he was certainly placed in a position of great difficulty and responsibility, that he had a right to throw himself on their consideration ; but while according to him the justice he demanded, he (Mr. Disraeli) must express his belief that nothing could be more inconvenient, if they were to be de prived of a financial statement by a Minister of the Crown, than these desultery discussions, which were not brought forward under circumstances which justified that consideration which the country required. With regard to the supplies which they might be called upon to grant, the hon. gentleman the Secretary for the Treasury concealed nothing from their notice ; indeed, the hon. member communicated his know ledge in a tone which, ho confessed, rather astonished him. The heu. Secretary for the Treasury said, " I had so many difficulties to meet." Ego et rex mews was the burden of his speech. (Laughter.) He did not know whether those who sat near him were prepared to submit to the despotism of the Secretary for the Treasury. With his (Mr. Disraeli's) limited experience of the present Chancellor of the Exchequer, he was not prepared to say in what part ho would take the speech of the hon. gentleman, but ho did not think the late Chancel lor of the Exchequer would have been so willing to yield to his surveillance, All the hon. gentleman said might be per fectly true and authentic, but he preferredhaving it from the proper officer at the proper time, when he gave au official ac count of the liabilities and resources of the country, and he declined entering into the subject at present. The question brought, very properly, under their consideration was one of a. much more limited character, and so far as he had listened to the hon. member for Stoke, it had been s u b m itt e d t o th em with temper, and, as he thought, with accuracy. There could be no doubt that in March last the house was clearly under the impression that the vote then agreed to, of Exche quer-bills, was intended as a temporary provision for the wants of the year, and was quite distinct from the usual votes of Ex chequer-bills which were proposed in committee of supply. The house and the country generally did believe that the tem porary loan of March was to be defrayed out of the ordinary revenue of the year. In the present year the usual Exche quer-bill was brought in, and they found an increase in it of 1,750,0001. The Secretary of the Treasury said it was not an increase of the permanent bill. No doubt, technically, it was not so, but it was so compared with the temporary as sistance which the right hon. gentleman the member for the University first submitted. Their condition was this. In March, 1854, a considerable vote, not much less than two millions of Exchequer-bills, was taken, upon the distinct understanding by the House of Commons that it was tem porary vote for the temporary aid of the public service, and that it was to be defrayed out of the accruing revenue of the year. Was it a matter of wonder that the house should ask for explanations in respect of so considerable a sum, or that they should draw what appeared to him to be the natural and necessary inference from the cir cumstance under which the financial system of the late Go vernment was established. It was very unfortunate that, having agreed in March with the house that they should vote a temporary supply of two millions, to be defrayed out of the accruing revenues of the year, the Government should have considered that contract to be permanent, although it was not so understood by hon. members on either side of the house. He did not object to a Minister, in the difficult posi tion in which the lat e Ch ance ll or o f the Exchequer was placed, sorrowing 1,750,0001. if ho came forward and asked for that amount • for, if he had asked for 17,000,0001. he could have obtainedit. It was not the amount, therefore, or the extra , vagant expenditure, that they complained of, but the manner in which what was called a temporary loan was converted into a permanent debt. Sir F. BARING said they were indebted to a noble lord (Lord Monteagle) for pointing out the way in which this sum of 1,750,0001. had been introduced into the ordinary Exche quer-bills. It was not necessary for him to repeat the state ments made in March, that the Exchequer-bills which were then issued were to be paid off out of the accruing produce of the revenue. Tho words of the Chancellor of the Exche quer himself were —" These will be raised and paid off out of the current revenue, and you will never hear anything more of these Exchequer-bills." After that statement, he did think that it required explanations before they were con verted into a permanent debt. The right hon. gentleman said that he did give such explanations on the Bth of May. Now, he had read the debate in the other house, he had read through the speeches of the right hon. gentleman, he had read through his speech of the Bth May that very morn ing, and it was not till he heard the construction which ho (Mr. Gladstone) put upon his words, that he was able to see that they were sufficient to convey the meaning that he at tached to them. He did not know that his own colleagues were aware of it—(laughter)—for the defence which they made was not the defence which he himself put forward. At the end of the session the Queen's Speench distinctly stated the same principle—" I fully recognise your wisdom in sacri ficing present convenience , and in providing for the immediate exigencies of the war without an addition being made to the permanent debt of the country." (Hear,) He would go te the speech of the right hon. member himself, in which, in speaking of these Exchequer-bills, ho said, " They constitute a debt permanent in itself, but the obligations of which are renewable from year to year." In point of fact, they had transformed those bills, issued for temporary purposes, into a permanent debt of the country. (Mr. Gladstone—No, no.) He used the right hon. gentleman's own words. (hear.) The Secretary of the Treasury said that'll° had also explained it, and having said so, of course he must allow that he had, but it was rather singular that no hon. member appeared to have heard him, and the ordinary channels for spreading in formation through the country had not noticed any such es- • planation. (Laughter.) He thought it was very important that, when any change of this kind took place, such tions should be given to the house that there could. be no misunderstanding. Mr. GLADSTONE was. sorry that it was necessary that he should have to explain what was said on the Bth of Mat May. -The right hon. gentleman who spoke last said, and said truly, that he (Mr. Gladstone) contended, on the 6th of March, that the Exchequer-bills in question would not be renewed, He complained that he did not, on the Bth of May, state that they_would be renewed. It would have been impossible and absurd to give such an explanation, because he did not then know it. What be said on the Bth of March was, that, ac cording to the plan then proposed, they would not be renewed. What he stated on the Bth of May was, that, after making full provision for the set vices of the country, it was necessary to have a further command of cash of about 36 millions, and iu that further amount he included the 1,750,000/. of Exche quer-bills. The right hon. gentleman, he was sorry to say, said that he did not understand it. (Laughter.) Mr. LAING did not, by any means agree in the opinion which the right hon. gentleman the Secretary to the Trea sury seemed to imply that the Government, in respect to savings bank funds, should act as a private banker. The two positions—that of the Government, and that of e. private bauker—were utterly dissimilar. Take one instance of this. The private banker was perfectly justified in making transac tions in the funds, upon the strength of the private informa tion which reached him, but the Government could not act upon any private information in their possession without seriously compromising its position. (Hear,) So that, in fact, the Government could not conduct any great operations in the same manner as a private banker could, and, consequently, the whole comparison failed. He wished to see the savings bank funds put upon a different footing from that in which they at present stood, and he believed he was not wrong in stating that his right hon. friend the late Chancellor of the Exchequer would not be averse to a change. (Hear, hear, from Mr. Gladstone.) Tho subject then dropped. MEDICAL ARRANGEMENTS FOR THE SICK AND WOUNDED SOLDIERS IN THE EAST. On the question that the house do now go into o. comitte• of supply, Mr. STAFFORD rose for the purpose of calling attention to the medical arrangements for the sick and wounded sol diers in the East, and in so doing reminded the hon. gentle man the Under Secretary at War (Mr. Peel) that he succeeded to a department which it was believed had inflicted more horror and suffering on our poor soldiers than could well be described. The letters from soldiers in our service, the information in the public journals, and the evidence before the committee now sitting, all went in confirmation of the terrible disasters which due want of care and management had. inflicted on our army. it was expected that a new class of diseases would break out, and new horrors might be expected, unless the Government made the necessary preparations. He took it for granted that the unspeakable horrors of the hospital at Balaklava had been at least to a great extent remedied, and that it was not what it was when he saw it— a disgrace to any civilised country. He hoped the hon. gentleman the" Under Secretary of War would be now able to give satisfactory in formation as to the treatment of the soldiers, and that proper shelter in the shape of huts had arrived for the sick and wounded in the Crimea ; also that proper arrangements had been made for the transport of the sick and wounded from the camp to the harbour. The question of the transport of the sick was of the greatest importance, for so cruelly had it been conducted that were one able to see through the depths of the Black Sea, he believed Cie way from Balaklava har bour to the Bosphorus might be traced by the skeletons of those who wore thrown overboard the transport vessels. He also hoped to hear from the hon. gentleman that the Govern ment had made, at length, efficient arrangements with re spect to the medical staff, and that the orderlies in carp of the sick were net now perpetually invalids, who brought disease instead _of vigour to the bedside of the patient. He also trusted that better means had been provided for the debar kation of tho.siek at Scutari, which was most unsatisfactory at the time he left. On the 6th of November Last ho wrote from Smyrna to the War-office, calling the serious attention of the Government to the circumstance that an hospital should be opened at Smyrna. There were three or four months in the year during which it w as said the climate there there was not healthy ; but during thecr;:ciastecrn, the climate portion c year, and especially during the wint was warmer and more suitable for the improvement of those s uffering under pulmonary complaints than the climate of Constantinople. But having let the cold weather go by, the Government was now about . to establish au hospital at Smyrna that was to sa l % during the most unhealthy season r I warned the Government, if they 1 1 of the year- (Ilea — would have an hospital at Smyrna, to take care it was not overcrowded, and that its internal economy was properly su perintended. He trusted the Government would spare no expense or labour in sending out to the East a proper supply of wooden huts, which could be used with great advantage in wa rm weather, and were more easily purified than stone build ings. He hoped the War-office would send out huts for at least 5,000 men. As to the propriety of imitating the French in bringing home invalids, there could be no doubt but that the change of climate and scenery, and the spirits which the prospect of coming home afforded to the sick soldier, would have an effect on his health that could scarcely be exaggerated. Provided the transport ships were as they ought to be, and the whole care and attention of those who had charge of them wore directed to the supervision and care of the sick and wounded, most beneficial consequences would result • but the whole attention of the authorities who had those trans ports under their control should be given to promote the com fort of their human cargo. Ho had heard many complaints of the indifference shown by th e War -office tooffo rsofthe most noble kind which had been made to them—offers ema nating from the most disinterested patriotism. And now there being a civil serv i ce office established at Smyrna, it was of the greatest consequence that the oases should be discri minated, and that there should be a man at Balaklava to de cide wha% cases should be sent to Smyrna and what to Scutari. Ho thought the officer to examine the transports, either at Scutari or Balaklava, would be a most important officer, and he trusted that in his selection the authorities would take care that justice was done to the civil surgeons as well as the mili tary surgeons. He trusted also something would b 3 done to improve tho condition of soldiers in casemated barracks. Mr. PEEL could assure the hon. gentleman it was quite un necessary for him to declaim being actuated by any spirit of hostility, for he had established a good claim to have any of his remarks on this subject receive d with attention. He (Mr. Peel) entirely concurred in the sentiment which the hon. mem bor said. h a d been expressed by Lord Paiunure in another place, DrrwspA..}. - A- ea.......i5e.... - - ''' \ that the Government stood in ne e d o f the assistance- of .f' ‘ every person in the country to procure e assietant s for oar military hospitals. He fully agiteeel 'Ailiat we shonld exclude no means which the state kf ,. .lncciic a t s c i ence in • this country allowed, i n ord - to enable th e i,_. • soldier to get well, and re j o i n th e ran k s o Lis' regiment as speedily as possible. He was not sorry that leeme delay had, taken place in the h on . gen tl eman pu tti ng tlie l i e questions s because, though he was prepared to answer them, so far ash. had information when he first put them, still, since, the Go vernment were in possession of those reports from the com missioners sent out by the Duke of Newcastle and an abstract • of the report from Smyrna which enabled him to spe a k w ith more confidence on the subject. The hon. member began by asking a question as to the hospital at Balaklava ; but before he (Mr. Peel) touched upon that subject, he would say a word as to the regimental hospitals in the camp before Sebastopol. Even now the number of sick 1 and wounded there was very great, and though the commissioners who had reported were M the Crimea in the first three weeks of January —. a period in which the cases were of a most malignant character, and he believed much suffering had been endured there. The great defect had been, not any deficiency in the number of medical - men—for he believed no such deficiency existed—but the great difficulty, he believed, had been in providing housing for the sick soldiers. But now be believed wooden hospitals had been provided for every regiment under Lord Raglan. Passing to the general hospital at Balaklava, it had been no doubt in a state of great confusion. He believed the chief cause of the disorder which prevailed there, as well as a t th e other hospitals, was overcrowding, and that arose, not only from the number of the sick, but from its having been made la sort of depot for the intermediate receptiox of those sick soldiers who were sent from the camp, for whom no imme diate preparation had been made in the way of transport. He had received a letter from Dr. Hall, who stated that a new hospital was being erected near the Castle of Bala klava, in which he found eight huts nearly completed, and in a. few days ho should be able to send 200 mon up there. The hospital would comprise from 20 to 24 huts, and each would hol about 20 patients. The next point to which he should refer was the transport service, to bring down the sick from Balaklava to Scutari. It was quite true, as the lion. member had stated there had been, in many instances, very groat delay between ' the date of the first embarkation of the sick and the date of the transport leaving the harbour at Balaklava. It was also true that the orderlies were often very unfit for their duty, and insufficient in numbers. However, five vessels had been fitted up as hospital ships, and orderlies would remain on -board, who would be qualified, and the run would be kept up between Balaklava and Scutari exclusively. for the sick. He believed all these delays arose from the want of small boats for the purpose of plying between the shore and the vessels. The ground for complaints, however, would be re moved, as measures had been taken by the Government. The hon. member was perhaps aware of the different buildings dee voted to the sick and wounded. There was the large hospital at Constantinople—a buildi ng ca ll e d th e S u lt an ' s P a l ace ; the 1 hospital at Scutari ; and two large vessels lying iu the Straits, and used for convalescents. The gentleman employed by the 'Government had gone over all these and inspected them mi nutely, and no doubt a great improvement would take place ; and the same gentleman had also made alterations with aview of placing the purveyor's establishment on a better footing, Means had been found to provide better accommodation for the sick and wounded, for, as the warm weather came en, the building m us t not be overcrowded. The Government had employed Mr. Brunel to prepare huts to be sent out, and in a few days some would be ready. • The whole would be sufficient for 4,000 patients. It was intended to put these wooden huts in the neighbourhood of Scutari, but whether on the Scutari or Asiatic side, or on the European side, was not decided. Mention had been made of the hospital at Abydos, in which there were only 270 sick at present, and of whom a favourable report had been made. No report had been made of the position of the hospital, and there fore he could not say whether it would not be enlarged as suggested. As to the hospital at Smyrna, his impression was that the Government had selected a place in which no unhealthiness attached, and no fevers prevailed. He be lieved the impression entertained by honourable members was erroneous and unfounded. The hon. member then read from several letters to show that the hospital was in a good position. Mr. Moorhead, staff-surgeon, was sent there to inspect and report upon the place, and his report was eer taiuly not unfavourable. The convalescents from wounds recovered very rapidly, and (the situation of the hospital was very healthy. Dr. M‘Leod, so late as the 3d of this month, had also written favourably ; and it had been stated that the building was ono of the most suitable for an hospital which was to be found in the country. The number of sick in the hospital was about 750, which was more than the building could accommodate, and it was therefore proposed to obtain permission from the Turkish Government for the loan of a lazaretto, in which the sick could bo placed. In the organi sation -of this hospital the greatest credit was duo to Colonel Powell, who had been sent there by Lord Raglan. He en tirely agreed with the hon, member that it was of the greatest importance. that the soldiers who could not be restored at Scutari, should be removed, and therefore the Government had arranged for the fitting up of two steam-vessels which would, when completed, and well provided with surgeons and. orderlies, be sent out to bring home 4,000 sick and wounded mon from Scutari. With regard to the army of Omer Pacha at Eupatoria, the Government had sent out 20_ medical men, under the charge of Mr. Buller. He trusted he had answered the different questions which had been put to him. The Government were very desirous to give the fullest information upon every subject connected with the hospitals, and thire would be no unwillingness on the part of the Government to answer the questions of any hon. member. He considered there were no persons who were more entitled to receive their sympathy-, or the consideration of th e Government, thati those soldiers whose bodies had been mutilated and whose constitutions had been impaired in the services which they had rendered to their country. Lord PALMERSTON—Sir, in addition to the points mentioned by my hon. friend, I wish to make a statement regarding some other points. Of course, it is incumbent on the Government to take effectual measures for the recovery and care and treatment of those brave and gallant mess -(hear)—who have either suffered in conflict with the ene my, or whose constitutions have been impaired by the ex posures incident to their service ; and I can assure you that my noble friend at the head of the War Department feels it one of the most incumbent duties which he has to perform. Besides those measures to which my hon. friend has•veferred, as has been already stated, I may say again, that not long ago three distinguished civilians, men who had made it their study to investigate all the circumstances connected with sanitary arrangements, have been sent out to the Levant—l mean Dr. Sutherland, Dr. Gavin, who was employed on a similar service in the West Indies, and Mr. Rawlinson, civil engineer, all gentlemen of the highest attainments with re gard to the matter to which their attention has been directed. Their specific object is one of those matters to which I have adverted, namely, the arrangements with regard to hospitals, barracks, and transports, on which depends the question of sickness or health. The purpose for which they went out was to examine the hospitals in Scutari, Constantinople, and Balaklava, and to suggest all measures which might be essen tial for placing these buildings in such a condition as to be as healthy as consistent with the purposes to which they were devoted. I wrote myself to Lord de Redcliffe, Lord Win. Paulet, and Lord Raglan, recommending these gentlemen to their particular attention, and suggesting that, whatever improvements these gentlemen might point out as necessary for the sick soldiers, should be carried into effect immediately, without reference to professional jealousy—(hear)—or other obstacles ; that whatever they recommended !should be forth. with done- -whether it depended on communication with the Turkish Government, or upon medical officers in the service, that no impediments should be placed in the way of such arrangements as these men should point out as necessary. I cannot but hope that when these very distinguished men have arrived at their station, and have pointed out the improvements which they think neces sary, that great 'and rapid ameliorations will take place. Colonel KNOX said that great injustice was done to ()leers by the home medical beard, who judged of the seriousness of the wound by the slowness of the 1 °cowry, so that men, to his knowledge, who had been seriously wounded, but hap pened to have good constitutions, were rated very low, whereas others wounded but slightly, and recovering slowly in consequence of weak constitutions, received high sums. He - hoped that would be remedied by the decision of the board on the scene of action being taken as final. He hoped also that compensation would be extended to the non-com missioned officers and men as well. Capt. DUNCOMBE advised the construction of berths iu the floating hospital fore and aft, and not as they were at present, to his astonishment, athwart ships. He also said that Smyrna, from his own experience, and that of others, was much more healthy than it was reported in the English prem. _ _ - Mr. PERCY, who spoke very low, was understood to com plain of the huts being erected within the hospital walls. Mr. PEEL said the evil had been remedied at Scutari as soon as it was known to Government,• and that at Smyrna they were erected on a parade ground. Mr. KINNAIRD asked whether it was the intention of Government to increase the number of chaplains in the army, Mr. PEEL said their number had bun increased, and the subject was still under the consideration of the Government. SUPPLY. Tht house having resolved itself into committee, Mr. WILSON intimated that at that late hour be only pro. paed to proceed with the Post-office- votes. The Customs and Inland Revenue votes, as being likely to lead to some discussion, ho would postpone. Colonel DUNNE had some ohjections to urge in reference to tho Irish Post-oftlee, and moved that the chairman do re port progress. The committee divided. Foi• reporting 19 Against progress ' 72 Majority against ...... —s3 On the vote of 1,e35,0001. for the Post office service, Colonel DUNNE, after the decision just come to, would decline to cuter into the subject of the abuses in the Irish Post-office, of which the lion. Under Secretary of the Trea sury must be fully aware, from the correspondence which had been forwarded to him. Mr. WILSON said the Postmaster-General had had" his attention directed to this subject, with a view to providing .a remedy to those abuses, which he (Mr. Wilson) admitted the existence of, and measures were now under consideration for that purpose. After a conversation, Lord NAAS complained of the absurd system which still prevailed in Ireland of sending the mails by carts and coaches over lines of country which were now traversed by railways. Mr. F. SCULLY made a similar complaint, and said that great delay was the result. Colonel DUNNE said he hoped that the accounts in Ire land would be kept separate, and that the whole management of the Post-office in Ireland would be reorganised. Mr. KIRK said that great delay took place in the delivery of mails in Dublin. They were not delvered until the second day after their departure from London. Mr. GROGAN said he hoped that the Post-office authori ties would consider the convenience of the people of Ireland. waslirn. A.ot gSivTelnE by (Gi t as he g°w) p o st-office in G complainediastlgetotwsifioffircitehieit d f e a ll e v i l e i r t y y of newspapers in certain cases. Mr. VANCE spoke of the pa lt r y economy which had been —, exercised by reducing the salaries o f some of reimbursed the . country postmasters result was postmasters to 4/. or 5 1 . themselves by taxing the public. Mr. COWAN had a griev ance in the extremel y low salaries of the Edinburgh t P os t-office servants, as compared with th ose nandDublin. He wished to know wh e th er the for the last fifteen ;,ears would tak e p l ace in revisionM ld . n promised KINNAIRDo said that in every case the Irish estimates were higher than the Scotch ones. Colonel DUNNE complained of the confusion of the Irish post-office system. Mr. MICHELL called attention to the gradual increase of m any of the heads of Post-office expenditure, while the work ing departments—the rural post-ofllea keepers, for example— were greatly underpaid. Mr. MAGUIRE pointed out various defects in Irish post office management. After a few words from Mr. FITZGERALD, Mr. WILSON said that a commission consisting of the hon. member for Honitou and two other eminent engineers had been appointed to consider and report upon the conveyance of mails by railway. He hoped that one of the results of their labours would be the determin , tioniof the question as to what the remunerationof railways ought to be fa.' the conveyance of the mails. If that were so, he trusted the Legislature would be prepared to pass an act requiring of railway coropaniya ~-- ,r 11 4 I , A i i 4