The Sun. — London, England, 1824-02-04 00:00:00

• The Earl of DARNLEY called their Lordships' attention to thr. state of Ireland, and observed that this was the fittest time to bring the whole subject.Lbefore their Lordships. We understood his Lordship to mention Thursday as the day on which he meant to give notice of a motion on the subject. Lord HOLLAND wished tolnow from the Noble Earl op posite whether any document* relating to the . tdociation be tween Turkey and Russia were on the table t: • -.. 7 - The Earl of LIVERPOOL replied, that he was not aware of any.—Theis LordshipS adjourned at Nine o'Clock. NCraLi those who wished Great Britain to interfere have • tacked if we had done so, and saw the Spanish people flock to the French standard ? If the Constitution of Spain had seta less faulty than it was, nay, if, it had been the greatest monument of human wisdom that ever existed, it would have been folly to have supported it against the majority :of the people for whom it Was intended. The 4eniards, so proverbially jealous of their independence, ac tually hailed the French army as their deliverers, and what . did this arise from—from the cause lie (the Earl of Liverpool) meted in that House last April, that althoUgh they hated foreign interference much, they hated the Constituton more. And would their Lordships have the country to interference in support of a small party against the majority ? He agreed with the Noble Lord (Somers) in his reprobation of ultraistn ; hut where was the ultiaism in Spain—it was the enthusiasm of .the Spanish nation. The Illustrious Prince who headed the :only which invaded Spain—and here he was bound to say, how iyer .ouch he deprecated the interference of France with .the 'Peiririsula, that the conduct of the illustrious individual through out the eampaign deserved the highest prage— Hear, hear !) • and spewed whatmight be expected from hitif . . 4 • heetscended •• the throne hereafter, of which he was the leen) ,te heir. This Prince, he would repeat, found all his exe e e if -necessary to repress the ultraism of the people. The Offs - ,of France :men and now were directed to check thanultraistra For his • - out he was averse to the sending British bayonets - for the pur pose of making men free, as of imposing slavery upon them ; and he trusted that in the facts he now stated the Housewould perceive the wisdom of the ' policy which had been followed by • Majesty's Government. Indeed he belieited if the country were searched from one endlo the other, not a man would be found of a different opinion. He next 'came to a subject of considerable importance, and here he would 'observe that the Noble Lord opposite (the Marquis of Lausdown) had not objected to what was said, but merely thought enough had not :been said in the Royal Speech on the affairs of South America. New, in a general exposition, such as that delivered from the . Throne, it did not appear to himself that explicitness was so necessary as had been assumed. But he had no_ hesitation in speaking frankly on the subject in question, which would be feu/1d in accordance with his former sentiments. During the fisst. Spanish Revolution it would be recollected that a differ. once of opinion existed in this country respecting the course - which it would be most expedient for us to pursue, and it became matter of serious consideration - whether our whole exertions should be employed in establishing the independ ence and liberty of South America, or in restoring the in dependence of the mother country. The former course was not found consistent with the general views entertained by Great Britain (and as experience proved correct views) for the deliverance of Europe. The result was that the King of Spain, after a series of the most brilliant achievements on the part of the Brttish Army, was eventually replaced on his Throne, We were aware what difficulties had in the mean time arisen between the mother, country and . her colonie s , an d th en an d a f terwar d s offered the mediation of this country to negociate some pacific arrangement, -though not such a one as would have placed South Ame _ rice in the same situation as before the war. But unfortu nately all those offers were rejected. Notvrithstanding that at many periods if they had been accepted Spain might have saved at least half her former Tansatlantic possesSions, and have averted their effectual separation. Circuinstenced, there. fore, as England now is, it b e c a me us to proceed frankly, and have therefore taken the first step by sending out Consuls to different parts of the Continent. The Noble Lord seems to suppose that this Government is fettered by other Powers in ' t.e course it is pursuing towards South America; but the object of the Speech delivered this day is to do away with such an impression. Neither by the will of Spain nor any other come.: try is our conduct, on this point, in the least degree shaeeled. • But until the independence of those States is recognize by the Mother Country there will be difficulties to be surmounted.— /Ls Lordship then proceeded to say, that in all which might be done, the interests of this country only would be attended to; and after briefly adverting to some of the other topics noticed in the Speech, concluded one of the most satisfactory -speeches which we have ever heard in Parliament, amidst much applause. Lord HOLLAND concurred in nearly all the topics em braced in the Address ; there were none, indeed, to which he had an insuperable objection ; but he yet considered that the tene . and temper of it were not such as their Lordships ought to. adopt, considering the present state of Europe. He fully agreed in the first part of it, which related to the internal pro. seerity of the country, which he was happy to admit was most ifouri.shing ; he would go one step further, and add, that this prosperity was mainly attributable to the wisdom and firmness G'r' Parliament, especially-in the resumption of cash payments —a measure, of the success of which he would he candid enough ti.) admit he had the most fearful doubts ; but he was not pre pared to give Ministers all the credit they claimed for this pro. sperity, more particularly when he recollected the language used by them during that distress. As when his Noble friends attributed it to the transition from war to peace," No," ex elaimcd the Noble Lords opposite, " it is owing to dry sea .sobs, or to a superabundant population ;" they now turn round and take credit for our recovery, though he did not think that they had by their eloquence brought down the rains from 'leaven, or abated the passion of love. Another part of the Address that afforded him much satisfaction was, the arrange. merit that had been entered into with Austria for the repay scent of the money that she had borrowed from us, though he almost feared that the money that we should get would hardly jay the expences of Lord Stewart's embassy. Some merit was aloe to the Emperor of Austria for this stroke of honesty, as he .believed his determination was taken contrary to the advice and opinions of his Ministers ; he also thought that the Noble .I..ords on his side of the House were entitled to some share of premse, a s, had they adhered to that prim propriety of speech so strongly recommended by the N o bl e P res id ent of' the Coeneil, he firmly believed that that resolution never would nave been taken. The situation of our West India colo nies is a question of deep and - vast importance ; but I iteebt the prudence or policy of dwelling on it, or of suf fering it to occupy so large a portion of his Majesty's Speech ; and I should fear . that it is only a prelude to call for an augmentatian of troops. If it is meant as only calling on this Bonen to adopt measures for their amelioration, lam ready to say that the force of the country should he increased, especially in Jamaica; and that strict attention ought to paid to the mo rality and discipline of the troops, andby a different distribution -of tnera, as great improvements may be thereby effected ; and furt!uir, that the forts should be destroyed, and barracks and a naval arsenal substituted. I state this on the authority of an officer very capable of judging—Major-General Cobbold. - 1 row come to that - port of the Speech as to the state in which thi; country stands with regard to Europe. Our situation is new and awful, to a dreadful degree, since we last met. It is a fact that nobody can deny, that France is in military possession of Spain. This has been - looked upon by the Noble Mover as a 1111tter of joy and satisfaction ; bu On my judgment, the present situation of Europe gives the most anxious apprehension, con sed only on the point of British interests. NVithin the last ei c eld years we have completely lost sight of the old policy of this country, which was always to prevent the preponderance of that Power nearest our own coast. This was the object of Kilt; William's wars, of that of George I. of Sir R. Walpole's, of Lord Chatham's—and in some measure of Lord Chatham's eon's ; and now the Holy Alliance has established one will,and that will is universal empire. At the commencement of the Frutch ltevolution, the ground on which this country went to War was the decree of the 19th of November, which held out pratuieea of assistance to the natives of every country who wished to shake off their allegiance. This was consider ed as an interference in the internal management of other countries. The Holy Alliance acted en this principle with regard to Spain, and it was equally in hostility to the eneient policy of this country. In this situation it was ne- Ceeaary that the Government should reflect on the crisis, and adept some measure, not hastily, but somewhat speedily, which would tend to preserve the balance of power in Eu rope. It was for her to consider whether she should not place herself at the he Id of the popular party in Europe, like the Protestant party formerly; or whether she should not separate herser from the Old World and look to South America to form a bond of union with, that would be so beneficial in a commer cial point of view, independent of every other consideration. It was not now necessary to discuss these paints. He was aware of the inconvenience attending then f ee but he would._ contend that a system must be adopted to enable this country to cOun teract the confederacy formed against this, which was silently working its ruin. The adoption of a system was a measure of necessity ; one must shortly be chosen. Unless the Govern anent did adopt a system, disgrace and degradation- would fol law e perhaps ruin and extinctione and they would deserve it for their inaction. HOUSE OF COMMONS. The SPE . AtiF.a having taken the Chair at half-. past two o'clock, the Commons were shortly after summoned to the House of Lords to hear his Majesty's Speech delivered by Commission on tha opening of the present Session of Parlia 'lint. The Speaker, attended by a considerable number of the Members present, imtnediately proceeded to the Lord,*. On the return of the Speaker, he informed the House that he had issued warrants for the return of a Member for the County of Lincoln, in the room of the Hon. Mr. Pelham, now Lord Yar. borough; and for a Member for the County of Liskeard, in the room of the Hon. Wm. Elliott, now Lord St. Germain. On the motion of Mr. Ix StiINGTON, new Writs were or dered for the following places::— For the Borough of Eye, to elect a 'Member in tire room of Sir Robert Gifford, lately appointed to the Office of Chief Jus tice i his Majesty's Court of Common Pleas; ot i the Borough of Ashburton, to elect a Member in the r of Sir John Copley, appointed to the office of his Ma i 's Attorney-General ; Tor the City of Oxford, to elect a Member in the room of Charles Wetherell, Esq. appointed Solicitor-General; For the Borough of Weymouth, to elect a; Member in the room of Mr. T. Wallace, appointed Master of the Mint; For the Borough of Sandwich, to•elect a Member in the room of Joseph Marryatt, Esq. deceased ; For the County of Cavan, to elect a Member in the room of Colonel Maxwell Barry, now Earl Farnham ; For Dumfries, in the room of Keith Douglas, Esq. appointed 1 one of the Lords of the Admiralty ; For the County of Louth, in the room of Sir Thomas Skef-, fington; 'now Lord Ferrard. THE KING'S SPEECH. . . The SPEAKER. said, having been summoned to the House of Peers, he attended to hear his Majesty's Speech read by the 'Lord Chancellor. To avoid mistakes, he had procured a copy of that Speech, which he would now read to the House. The SPEAKER then read the Speech ; shortly after he had concluded, Mr. HILL rose to move the Address, and delivered himself, as nearly as we could collect, in the following words :—" Mr. Speaker, I should not have ventured to present myself to the House, for the first time, on this important occasion, if I were not convinced that their indulgence to those who undertake to move the Address to the Throne is always in proportion to the necessity there may be for *hewing it—(Hear, hear, hear !) With a full sense of my own inability to perform this task, I trust I may rely on even a larger portion of their kindness than they have been called upon to shew on any former oc casion. Nothing, indeed, should have induced me to un dertake it, but the full persuasion that the Address of Thanks I shall have to move to his Majesty, for the most gracious speech which we have just heard, will be received with the unanimous approbation of this House. Sir, I think myself particularly fortunate that this duty has fallen to my lot at a time when, from the very gracious sentiments contained in his Majesty's Speech, it will be extremely difficult for any man to find the means of raising a discordant voice.— (Hear, hear, hear!)--,Sir, when I look back to the last few years of our history ; when I remir to the stupendous exer tions and unequalled difficulties of the long war in which this country had been engaged, and the consequent dis tress arising from those exertions and those difficulties ; I say, when I contrast that state of the country with its present condition, I am filled with admiration and astonishment ; and the suddenness of the change and rapid contrast in our situa tion appear to be more like the creation /of some superior Power, than to flow from the ordinary influence of human Councils—(Cheers.)—Within seven years war, ears of a which has endured for a quarter of a century, in which all Europe was engaged—but the resources mainly supplied by Great Britain, we find our commerce extended to the remotest corners of the globe.--(Cheers) - OUT Manufacturers in the highest prosperity, and public credit, the lee-blood of the state, full of animation and vigour; while that which is the most important interest of them all, the agriculture with which my own, and the fortunes and welfare of those I have the honour to repre sent, is in a gradual state of amelioration.—(Loud cheering.) In addition to this gratifying prospect, I am happy to be able to add, that from Ireland, hitherto the dark quarter in our po litical horizon, a ray of light has broken Nell, which I hail as the augury of future improvement, by the wise removal of in vidious distinctions and restrictions in our mutual commerce, by an extension of the blessings of education, and by a cordial sympathy in her sufferings in times of calamity, the reflecting pert of the peozle of Ireland have been convinced of the deep interest which Englishmen take in her welfare ; a conviction which will ultimately tend to make her a large participator in that happy state which makes us the envy and admiration of the world. In common with every lover of peace and of my country, I rejoice at the continued assurances of the friendly disposition entertained by Foreign •Powers towards his Ma jesty; and it is an act of justice in me to offer up my humble tribute of applause and gratitude to his Majesty and his Ministers for the undeviating neutrality which this country has maintained during the late partial agitation of the Continent ; a neutrality, which I am persuaded has prevented die re kindling of a war throughout the States of Europe, and has established the peace of the world on a foundation of no ordinary stability.—(Loud cheers.)—ln referring to that part of his Ma r iesty's Speech, in which he has commanded the estimates of the present year to be laid before the House, I have to congratu late you, affording, as it does, a striking proof of the prosperity of the public finances, that even after provision is made for the expences incidental to an augmentation, his Majesty has been under the necessity of making in both his naval and mill tory force, an expectation is held out that some means may be fbund of relieving several branches of our national industry.— The expediency of this augmentation is unhappily founded on the state of the Weet Indian Isles. I cannot, however, but in dulge the hope that a steady and c a l m i nvest i gat i on will prove that the true interests of the colonists are inseparably connected with the morul improvement and meliorated condition of the slave population ; and that the chief cause of the military aug mentation will therefore soon cease to exist. Offering therefore my grateful thanks to the House for the kindness with which they have beard me, I shall move that an humble Address be presented to his Majesty." The Hon. Member then moved the Address, down amid the which, as usual, was an echo of his Majesty's Speech ; and sat general applause of the House." Mr. DALY seconded the Motion. He was fully aware how inadequate he was to the duty he had undertaken ; but recol lecting how often he had experienced the indulgence of the House, lie thought he should shew himself to be deserving of it by proceeding in the first instance to the subject on which he was about to address them, rather than by consuming their time with apology for his insufficiency. He was induced to second the Motion for this Address, because lie was satisfied that it would meet with gentle or no opposition. It could not be de nied that the situation of the country was such as to afford gene rel satisfaction. A few years ago England was excluded from any intercourse with the rest of the world, and was opposed to one of the ablest and most extraordinary enemies that had ever been arrayed against her. The question at that time was, whe ther she should bow to the Conqueror of the rest of Europe, or remain a tree and independent country—shehad triumphed ; and had shewn herself as moderate in peace as she had been vigor ous and determined in. war. At the Congress held on the Con tinent shortly after the termination of the war, the modera tion of England was most conepicuous. She proposed the sa- ' crifice of all minor interests, and looked at main question on a subject so deserving of consideration—the securing comfort and happiness to other countries, and thus removing every cause of hostility from all. He should like to know who was the man that would not congratulate the House on the continuance of our relations of peace, in consequence of the policy we had adopted on the recent invasion of Spain by France. He well knew that that policy had not been occasioned by apprehen sion ; but he would not say, that, as an Englishman, the issue of the war had been agreeable to him.—(Hear, hear ! from the Opposition.)—There was rurEnglishman who did not regret the extinction of the smallest spark of liberty; but the very slight struggle which had been made by the Spaniards themselves shewed the good policy of our Ministers in not interfering with the question. He gave Ministers credit for the steady oppo sition they had shewn, even to the good feelings of the peo ple of this country; for our own almost recent struggle had shewn that we feared not all the rest of Europe combin ed, when proper occasion called for our exertions. Yet, after such a struggle as we had gone through during the lase war, the blessings of peace were too valuable to be slightly thrown away. It was not to be forgotten too that after such a struggle, it could not reasonably be expected, that prosperity and comfort, the natural 'results of peace, would come upon us all at once. He thought, however, that our warm acknowledgments were due to Ministers, who, when pressed, bad fairly admitted that the vessel of the State was shaken, but had truly prophecied that she would ride through the storm. They could now ask the most able of their political opponents, whether all the public interests were not in a state of prosperity ? In a consideration of this nature, Agri culture would, of course, take the lead ; and lie was en titled to say that the prosperity of this branch had been pro duced, not by artificial means, but by the gradual increase of wealth in its ordinary course. The burthens which pressed on the country had been considerably lightened ; no less than 20 millions. if taxes having been taken off within the last eight years. However desirable such a relief might be considered, it ought never to be thought of, at the least sacrifice of public faith. This had been preserved inviolate, and yet a consider able reduction had taken place in the interest of a part of the National Debt, without causing any difficulty. Foreign Na tions had of course their financial concerns also ; but every European Country was obliged to solicit our assistance.— Even the Austrian debt contracted recently for the payment of part of an old debt due to us, • could not be contracted for with- Out English guarantee. Nay, the French army, in its aggres ,sive march against the liberty of Spain, could not proceed with. , out the assistance of British capital. He had heard it said, in deed, in that House as well as out of it, that although England was prosperous internally and in her commercial relations, still she had lost her former means of preserving the balance of power. He did not agree with those who advanced this posi tion: on the contrary, he contended, that England was never more able than she was now, to hold the balance of power in her own hands. After noticing the increasing prosperity in all the branches of our manufactures, the Hon. Gentleman proceeded to allude to that part of the Speech which referred to the appointment of Consuls from this country in the new States of South America. It was most gratifying, he said, to see millions of our fellow men shaking off the galling yoke of despotism and slavery. Ile hailed this appointment of Con suls as a first step towards the formal acknowledgment of these States as independent countries. He knew that the latter re quired prudence, and an attention to those forms which ought always to be observed by civilized states in amity with each other. This prudence and this attention to form had been scrupulously adhered to by us, notwithstanding the example to the contrary which had been shewn us by France on the revolt of our own American Colonies. With regard to the West Indian question, he thought the utmost caution in all our proceedings was absolutely necessary. We should have to consider not only the rights of property in the abstract, but those rights secured, as they were, by many Acts of Parlia ment. For his own part, he could say that almost the first vote he gave in that Mouse was for the Abolition of Slavery. That vote he had given most heartily • but he could not forget that the same attention was due to the rights of West Indian property as to those of our property at home. He only meant to observe, that we should pause before we proceeded to any positive Act. There was another subject in the speech which demanded notice; he meant the state of Ireland. It was truly painful to think of the many acts of misgovernment which had taken place leading to the disturbance of that unhappy country. He was aware of the liberality of Parliament by pecuniary grants, and of that of the people of this country by subscription. He could say with confidence that they had done more to , en dear the British character to the people of Ireland th an an y ' historical acts that lie knew or had heard of. The late ar rangements respecting the Petty Sessions and other circum stances, resulting from the present administration, had satisfied the people that justice would now be done to them ; but much yet remained to be done.—He could speak from his own know ledge to the fact, that within the last six months large advances of British capital had found their way to Ireland ; and these, he thought the House would agree with him, must have more effect than whole volumes of law.—(Cheers.)—The present im proved situation of that country he thought he might fairly at tribute to the Administration; but as he had before observed, much remained to be done. He could not forbear touching on one topic, which he considered as one of considerable im portance. He meant the question of extending the benefits of the constitution to all classes in the kingdom and especially to those who only knew of the existence of those benefits by the bars which excluded them from their enjoyment.--(Loud cheers from the Opposition.)--He thought every other measure for improving the situation of the Irish people would fail, or at least would be diminished in effect, unless that to which he had alluded were added ; for every such measure must be offered to a divided people. He did not intend to go fully into that great question, because he knew that its importance would call for an early consideration of it. He merely declared his opinion, that all improvements would be of little value with out the addition of the principal one.—(Hear,`hear, hear l) He knew it was customary only for Members younger than him self to second motions like the present ; but as he had generally supported the measures of Ministers, he had not thought it either improper or unbecoming to second an Address which con veyed a general approbation of those measures. The Hon. Gentleman, after thanking the House for the indulgence th ey had shown him, concluded by seconding the motion. Mr. BROUGHAM said lie rose chiefly in consequence of some observations which had fallen from the Hon. Seconder, having had no means of informing himself of the contents of the Speech, except so far as they had been collected by anticipation in some Morning Papers, and a Foreign Paper, which had made a very correct conjecture as to the substance of the King's Speech.—(A laugh.) —Considering the magnitude of the topics discussed, he wished the old practice of better times had been followed ; but as he knew it would be violently oppo se d if he were to propose postponing the consideration of the Speech till they had examined it, he should go on to remark on some of those topics which had, coming from the lips of the Hon. Seconder, given him unfeigned pleasure and delight ; he meant the latter part of that Honourable Gentleman's speech, from which it appeared that at length Government had determined to rule Ireland on some intelligible and consistent principle, not raising up and abetting one party to thwart the other in its endeavours to possess itself of those constitutional rights whi c h the Honourable Seconder had so truly and so eloquently said they knew not even the existence of, except by the bars which shut them out from their enjoyment. Such a line of policy alone could insure the tranquillity of that country, or indeed could be safely or honestly. Patronised. He saw no reason why this country should felicitate herself, or utter con gratulations to the Crown on the other events alluded to hy the *Honourable Gentleman who seconded the Address. Spain, it was true, had been unsuccessful in her struggle; but were they for that to congratulate the Soyereign on the line of policy his Ministers had advised him to Pursue ? Their interference might have been successful or it might not—the same might have been the result—the Spaniards might have been unable to maintain the Constitution ; but because they were now only one degree better than they could have been in the worst conceivable state of things, was that a subject for congratulation. He did not now argue toh a veb whethereenadoped they; or not followed the line of policy that oughtbut was it a time to congratulate the Cr own that matt ers were no wo rse ? Wh at was i t t h at did real ly happ en ? The conqu est of Spai n b y France.—( Hear, hear !) —That was the event t h e y suffered to take place almost w i t h ou t the slight es t expression of disapprob at i on — w i t h out protest or re monstrance ; an event to avert which, in f orme r times,th e greatest and most expensive wars ever t undertaken by this country had been waged and victoriously Waged. As to example and imme diate consequences, it would be needless to remind the House of the wretched effects that followed from the policy pursued. Whether they could avert, the ever or not was another question. ' This at least, was clear, teat the present state of the Contin e nt offereel most serious ground of alarm. He could not admit the force of the argument so eloquently advanced by the Hon. Gentleman who seconded the Address. The little resistance offered by Spain was, he said, a proof that this country would have been premature in interfering otherwise than she had. This was an argument that cut two ways. He should like to know, if Spain were not averse from the restored Govern ment, if the body of the People did not entertain sentiments favourable to the Constitution, what was the motive for re taining in that unfortunate country a force of 50 or 60,000 men ? Either the Spaniards were friendly to the Constitution, or France was now the conqueror of Spain ; and holding possession of it as a conquered country, notwithstanding her former protestations to the credulous Ministry of England. One or other branch of the dilemma was inevitable, and the last was that incalculably most injurious to the interests of England. France, however, up to the very last moment, de nied any views of ag grandisement. If the latter alternative was not admitted, the necessary,conclusion was, that Spain was attached to the Constitution that she wanted but the countenance of other Governments—that she stood in need of fleets and armies, and pecuniary resources--and that these wants alone prevented her from a successful struggle. Ills be lief was, that Spain was attached to the Constitution ; that though unsuccessful from want of leaders or resources, she did what she could under all the circumstances, and was now only kept dpwn by a French force, by the terror of those armies which had most unwarrantably trodden down her rights and liberties. He should be told, perhaps, that the fears lie enter tained front the conduct of France were chimerical—that no danger could result to this country. The Hon. Gentleman who seconded the Address said, that England never stood in a more commanding attitude than now—that her influence was never greater—that she never more Completely held the balance of power in Europe. Where were the proofs of this ? Either they possessed the influence without exerting it ; or holding the balance they allowed- it to incline entirely to one side, or they looked upon themselves as having nothing at all to do, no interest of any kind in the conduct of the other Powers. The fact appeared to be, thaethey were entirely shut out from the deliberations of the other Powers; they had no voice in the conclave : of Sovereigns, and were called upon only as brokers to contribute their money in support of the war, to lend their aid when the bills became due.—(A lauglin—He be lieved, however, that the case did not present !so much of a dilemma as might be supposed; and that in fact the Allies did not look upon them as a Power that ought to interfere. It was the common talk in some of the saloons of Paris that England in future mu s t con t ent h erse lf w i t h t h e situation of a secondary Power, with that-in which nature and, he would add, her own choice placed her. He should be told that the dangers he apprehended were either very distant, or quite chimerical; that there was nothing to be apprehended from those conspira tors against the liberties of Europe, who went under the appel lation of the Holy Allies. This was the name they gave-them selves. These conspirators were wise in their generation. He did not apprehend that they would immediately p r o c eed t o out rage the feelings of this country—that they would attempt it this year or the next. Though they were bound to keep the peace under a recognizance of 800,000,0001. still there were out rages under which the Holy Alliance well knew they would for.. feit even a recognizance so great, and say to the authors of such outrage, let the debt go as it might, we will submit to this no longer. Being conscious of this, the Allies would not make any sudden attempt to excite opposition ; they would undertake nothing outrageous, until after slow encroachments submitted to one after the .1) ther, as of no great importance, they would at tempt some decisive step, that must at length drive this country into an unsuccessful, because unequal struggle. Look at their conduct to other countries. He recollected that last Session he was treated with something approaching to derision by the Right Honourable Gentleman the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, in consequence of some allusion he made to the conduct which it was then reported the Allies were pursuing with respect to the Swiss Cantons. The Right Honourable Gentleman said that if the least part of the little he (Mr. B.) then stated were true, it was much too much, It was thus he answered, with something of an epigramatic turn, in place of communicating any accurate information, of meeting the statement with a denial, or saying no such information, had reached Govern meat. It was the singularity of the Right Honourable Gen. tleman's expressions that fixed the matter in his recollec tion. It turned out, however, that the greater part of whet he (Mr. B.) stated was true; and that they, without any Minister with a large salary at the Swiss Cantons, were more correct in their information than his Majesty's Government. It was true that there had issued a requisition to put down the free press of Switzerland, to turn out all emigrants, all who took refuge there from the persecutions and tyranny of their own country. Switzerland, that had been illustrious for ages for affording an asylum to those who fled from religious or political persecution, was thus ordered by imperial mandate to turn out those who took refuge in her bosom. These unfortu nate men, too, were driven away with unnecess ar y v i o l ence; and a violence equally unnecessary was employed in putting down the free press. Not content with suppressing the com mon vehicles of political intelligence and passing events, they suppressed even journals which were merely the depo sitaries of scientific discussion, not from any political offences committed by them, but because they had the savour of dis cussion ; and the Allies feared that any thing like a spirit of discussion upon any subject, might turn out unfavourable to themselves. A country might be allowed to enjoy tran quillity; it might not be overrun by invading armies; it might seem to prosper; but he must call that an unhappy country that was thus obliged to act under the dictation of des potic Governments. It might be allowed for a time to wear the appearance of a separate State, but sooner or later it must be swallowed by the despotic Power that thus interfered in its internal concerns. The same was the case all through Ger many. There the Allies acted like a sort of armed police. They met, concerted their plans, and appointed each other to carry them into execution. At one time Italy was the coun try to be overrun, at another time Spain ! Austria was appoint. ed to do the business at one time, and France at another. With out putting a single question to this country on the subject ; with any shew of respect to her Government, any deference for her principles or opinions, their measures were concluded upon, and carrfed into execution. And this he was now told ought to be a Jsuhject for congratulation. This was that state of un exampled influence the country had reached; this was holding the balance between the Powers of Europe. If any man doubt ed that the same conspirators who put down the free press of Switzerland was pursuing the same course with respect to Ger many, let him only look at the case of Wurtemhurg. There was not a single Editor of a Journal in Germany who would now dare to publish any article tending to give umbrage, not mere ly to the Sovereign of the State in which it was published, and who might be supposed to possess some right of interference, but to the Czar of Muscovy, the King of France, or the Empe ror of Austria.- It was the same with respect to Italy, in the southern parts of which a force of 30,000 Austrians still re mained ; and in the North, scenes of cruelty and oppression were now going on, that made the blood creep. I. or very obvious reasons he did not mean to enter deeply into this sub ject ; but it was impossible not to observe that now, after undergoing the torture of' imprisonment for three years, many were lately put to death in that unhappy country. There was one instance of peculiar atrocity, and most wanton cruelty. It was that of a female, who had gone a considerable distance to visit a relation in prison, thinking that he was to suffer death. On her arrival, though the sentence had been com muted for imprisonment, the fact was not communicated to her. She was allowed to return in a state of painful un certainty, and thus to continue unnecessarily in a state of mental torture during the whole interval that elapsed till her arrival at home. This was a sample of what was doing in Italy under the paternal and tender care of the Holy Allies. Ac cording to the laws of that country the torture had been abolish-' ed ; but the Judge of Police, if the victim refused to answer, had the power of confining him to a dark dungeon, of ordering that' it should be made more dark or more damp, and therefore more unwholesome. Thus the wretched man might be treated until , an avowal of guilt was extracted from him, though not guilty at all. In some cases, when the health and mind sunk under con tinued oppression and imprisonment, it was known that some, to rescue themselves from , their mi ser i es , i ncu lp ate d even t h e i r o f things e x i sted in Spain, since it was committed own innocent relations. here was no occasion to sa y th a t a similar state to the charge of him who was a wort h y representative of the , Holy Allies—the beloved Ferdinand—(A laugh),—who, he had no hesitation in saying, was an object of more contempt, ab horrence, and disgust, th an any other man now living. There he was, after breaking through every obligation that should bind him as a Monarch or a private man, torturing innocent women, with the blood of the gallant but unfortunate Riego's murder on his head. It Wa s impossible that there could exist either in that tion for the armed uespots. There was not one who must not detest e I t 1 t o h u e s house or ho ioeuct,oon,fdiuet and principles of those Royal conspi- I it, but one feeling of ho rror an d execra rators, who were no w fil ling Europe with blood and misery. 'Whatever might b e t h e feelings with respect to Old Spain, he found there were many persons, he did not allude to his Ma jesty's Ministers, extremely sensitive as to any thing that re p'ower in that qu arter. Let the whole coast of Spain be, under garded New Sp a i n , any interference of the French, or any other the rule of a country from which Ireland might be advanta geously invaded ; let that country take possession of her harbours aisd her arsenals now in decay, and make preparation for putting them into a state fit to receive and equip her fleets ; let all this be done, these persons say we mind it not, for who is afraid of France ? We beat her before, and can again. What though we run up a bill of 10 0,000,000/. ? But let no one come near the Spanish Colonies, or attempt to interfere with them, as our trade and commerce is deeply interested in their independence. The instant any attempt of that kind is made, then, say they, go to' war . How these persons thought, after permitting the inva sion of Spain, that they cou ld make out a case against any policy France might think fit to pursue with regard to South America, he knew not. Ferdinand had just as good a right nMexico, as he had so m e ti me b ac k to M a d r id . H e was out to ofpossession of one as well as the other. The Colonies were his de jure, but it might be said that now defaeto they were separated from the Mother Country. The Right Hon. Gen tleman (Mr. Canning) said last year, that time and the course of events had settled the question with respect to South Ame rica ; but had not time also settled the question with respect to the Constitution of Spain ? Two years back there was no indie cation of disobedience to the new system introduced there. It was recognised by this country, inasmuch as a Minister then re sided at Madrid from the Court of London. It was recognised four or five years previously by the Emperor of Russia. These were inconsistencies he could not reconcile. He trusted that South America would never return under the dominion of the Mother Country, whatever might be the form of Go vernment there, whether Constitutional, or, as it now was, completely despotic ; he trusted these Colonies would retain the freedom they had purchased with their blood ; and that if the necessity should arise, this country would do her duty. Happily this important question was now nearly disposed of. He spoke it with pride and exultation, that an event had lately occurred which must be a source of pride to every nation that cherished any idea of freedom, and fill with gratitude every bosom that re garded the rights and liberties of mankind. He alluded to a declaration in the speech of the President of the United States. —(Hear !)—lt was open, manly, and intelligible, such as be came a free nation ; and he trusted they would not be deterred by any mean spirrited calculations of prudence from any appre hension of giving offence to the Holy Allies, from follow ing the noble example, and joining our efforts to those of the free people of America, to set bounds to the encroachments of a despotic alliance, which, ifonce it could bring the Old World under subjugation, would no doubt endeavour to extend its ty ranny to the New. That such was their wish he had not the least doubt. They had clear proof of it from the letter of Ferdinand, in which lie expressed a hope that the Emperor of Russia would assist him in the subjugation of South America. His Imperial Ally would not perhaps attempt this openly ; but he might send ships to the Spanish ports to be afterwards employed in a war against the Colonies--he might transmit treasure, arms, and am munition. Thus assisted, intriguers armed with money could be dispatched into South America, as they had been into Spain previous to the late contest, to sow dissension, and to buy over a party. The Priests would no doubt exert themselves in the unholy cause, as they were always the ready Allies of despotic power. With such aids, sooner or later, South America must be reduced, unless she received the early and decisive support of this country, unless they came forward to second the Declaration of the United States. He regret ted that the Honourable Gentleman who seconded the Address said any thing in relation to the unsuccessful efforts of the un fortunate people of Spain. Errors no doubt had been committed by their leaders ; a different policy might have led to very dif ferent results. Mere forms were perhaps too much attended to when substance only should have been regarded. But with respect to the illustrious individuals who forsook their country when they saw that their presence could no longer be of use their highest praise was, that they retired from the contest un sullied by blood and untainted by the breath of suspicion. They subjected themselves to no charge, except perhaps that of not having acted with that degree of vigour the peculiar nature of the struggle required. lie trusted they would meet with the sympathy, the fellowship, and the assistance their sufferings and their cause so well merited ; and that they who had squandered vast sums upon objects far less worthy, would do justice to their merits, and not suffer them to sink under the pressure of adversity. He asked pardon for having delayed the House so long. It was not his intention when lie rose to enter at such length into the subject of the Address; but however he might approve of other parts of the Hon. Seconders speech, he could not but enter his protest against some of the doctrines with which it concluded, When the Hon. and Learned Gentleman concluded, no other - Member appeared on his legs. A pause ensued. Mr. Secretary CANNING then rose. After the speech of the Honourable and Learned Gentleman, he should i n re-. diately have offered himself to the House, teat for a rumour that an Amendment to the Address was intended to be mo ved, if not by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, by some other' Hon. Member. This, however, did not appear to be the case, and in this state of things, though the Honourable and Learned Gentleman manifested no ill will to that practical vote, to which the House was likely to come, there were points in his speech which, it might seem disrespectful to him, and dis respectful to the House, if he were wholly to pass them over . on the present occasion. Whatever had fallen from the Hone Gentleman, the seconder of the Address, to incur the censure of the Honourable and Learned Gentleman, lie would say that he thought, in fairness to that Honourable Gentleman, the whole of his speech should be considered, not with a view to the separate topics which it embraced, but with reference to the general tenour of the King's Speech, to which itapplied, and the state of the country to which it alluded. He agreed. with the Honourable and Learned Gentleman that this would not be a convenient time to enter into the discussion of the merits of the past-gone policy of this co un t r y w i t h respect t o Spain, and ind ee d that question could not now be debated without deviating from the Order of the Day. It was true, nevertheless, that a part of the Speech referred to what had been the conduct of Parliament with respect to it. Ile need not now say by how large a majority the determination of Ministers., had been sanctioned on that occasion ; but now that the result was known, anti the struggle at an end, it was impossible to pass it over altogether, and lie thought the Hon. and Learned. Gentleman himself would admit, that if mentioned at all,it could , not have been touched upon in a way less likely to excite irri- tation, or to revive the discussion of topics which were formerly the cause of some differences of opinion. He was not disposed to invite a debate on this subject, nor was he more willing to call for a critical inquiry into the causes of the failure of the friends of the Spanish Constitution in the Tate struggle. Cod forbid that he and those with whom lie acted should exult over their misfortunes, and impute the absence of those qualities that ought where ensured success. God forbid that they should ag gravate the sorrows of those who now pined in all the agony of disappointed hope, by imputing to them a want of individual', talent, virtue, and exertion which merited a better fate. Doubt- less it was known from the very commencement that the issue '‘ of the struggle must depend on that which no human being out of Spain could form a judgment for himself, on the degree of , support which the people of Spain were inclined to give to tie Constitutionalists, and on the means which they had at their disposal. The very principle, however, on which iinistees had decided not to take a part in the contest now precluded him from going minutely into the m e ri ts o f t h e system which had been established in Spain. For obvious reasons he had certainly considered some parts of it not fitted to the situation of that country, but he would - not now critically examine how far the Constitution was suited" to Monarchical and Catholic Spain. It had failed, and its failure had brought back the present or former system, which he was not more dis posed now to characterise than he had been to speak of the Constitution. This, however, at least was satisfactory, that it had -not occasioned the inteference of British arms, or the expenditure of B r i t i s h treasure. Had we entered into the con test, what must have been the consequence ? was not enough that we should furnish armies, fleets, and money; those would not have been sufficient. Ministers knew this at the time, for to the success of. the Constitutionalists that unani mity, patriotism, and attachment to the system then establish ed was wanting which no strangers coal supply. Fleets and armies and money might be furnished by foreign friends, but the qualities which he had enumerated could not. Wanting them, no external aid could turn the tide of war ; all that could be effected by other means was. to protract the struggle, which would ultimately, in all human probability, have terminated nearly as it had now done. The Hon. and Learned Gent. said, he had made every effort to find out that discriminating grin- ' ciple which would justify this country in opposing the. attempts of Foreign Powers on the Spanish Colonies, while she offered no opposition to the attack mad e b y F rance on Spain herself. Why. they acted. in this instance on the principal which they had always avowed, that of abstaining from all interference with the internal affairs of another country. They had treated Spain as. if her situation' had not been changed with respect to her Colonies. They viewed it not merely as a question betweeen Spain and her Colonies, between Ferdinand the Seventh and the South Ame ricans; but they held this doctrine, that there never was a case in the world, where the separation of Colonies from a, parent State, could, of itself,' give other nations a right to exercise a judgment on the merits of the case, or at least a right of acting on that judgment by force of arms. No co lonies had a right to demand assistance from a foreign power, and no foreign power had a right t o a id them while it remained on terms of friendship with the parent State. Under latch circumstances, the recognition of independence might justly m be o w t h i e th r h c o e l u d, nt r a y s t giveo it a i s cti ffi w a e u s l t t o t o e d n r c a o w u r t a h g e e l r n e e s a i s n ta d n s c a e y t w o h t e h n e the recognition of separate colonies ought to take place, and when the newly independent states had reached that stage at which to refuse the solicited recognition was to do injustice.— But the decision of his Majesty's Government on this question was not to be influenced by the present state of Spain. Whether Spain was under an arbitrary Monarch, or under a mitigated democracy, as was latterly the case, the question was to be determined, with reference to the principle whi c h h e h a d l a id . down on its own, merits, and not with a reference to the in ternal state of Spain herself. Undoubtedly if we were to deal with Spain as others had dealt by us we need not hesitate to recognise the independent States of South America. We might look back to the loss of our own America, and we should then see that others had not been so slow to recognize the independence of the North American States. But, instead of doing precisely as we had been done by, to do as we would be done by was the true maxim, and thus England had acted. —lt was from our adherence to this principle that we were be hindjothers in taking that course to which circumstances might be hastening us. The- Honourable and Learned Gentleman had said, that if we now recognised the independence of South America, we should only follow the example which had been set by the Government of the United States. With the prin ciples set forth in the President's Message, he in some instances cordially agreed, from others he most unequivocally differed. He agreed that when a question was raised between Colonies and a Parent State, that no foreign Power had 'a right to inter fere by force ; but he did not agree, that, when Colonies resist ed the authority of the Mother Country, the latter. had not a right to recover them by force, if she could. In such a.prin ciple he could by no means concur. [Mr. BROUGHAM intimated that he had not contended for this.] Mr. Secretary CANNING continued.—He thought the Learned Gentleman had maintained that the time was now past when Spain herself had a right to attempt 'the recovery of her Trans-Atlantic dominions by force of arms. He had misun derstood the Hon. and Learned Gentleman. What he (Mr. Secretary Canning) maintained was this, that other countries had not a right to interfere between revolted Colonies and the Parent State with arms, but that the Mother Country had a right to compel the Colonies to submission. He was not blind to the physical impossibility of this now being done by Spain ; but the right was hers, and we should act unwisely, unjustly, and ungenerously, were we not to admit this right, and to allow a proper interval to elapse, in which she might make the attempt before ever we decided on that step, which some were of opinion ought to be taken forthwith. It would have been ungenerous, while Spain was engaged in a struggle with France, to have sanctioned any inroad on her colonial posses sions ; and 'it would now be ungenerous to •do so before Spain could be regarded as fairly in possession of her own means, which was not the case at present, as coming out of a war, she was seen in a state of comparative weakness and ex-' haustion. If an opportunity for recognizing the independence of the Colonies had been lost, lie rejoiced that it was gone by, and that we had taken no step which could encourage them to resist the parent state, while that parent state was engaged in a war with a powerful neighbour. That part of the speech then, which related to South America, he hoped would meet with the approbation of the Gentlemen opposite. Ten mo n ths ago the view which his Majesty's*Ministers took of the situation of Spain and her colonies had been brought before the House. In an official paper which he had laid on the table, it was there stated, that "time and the course of events had substantially decided the question between Spain and her colonies; but the. • period at which this Government would recognise the independ ence of the latter must depend upon circumstances; and on the circumstances of the States themselves." After the lapse a ten months, the Speech now under consideration was brought before them, which told them that "his Majesty has reserved to himself the unfettered discretion of exercising towards those countries such policy as the interest of his people, may appear to demand." The Hon. and Learned Gentleman did not stand in need 'of any interpretation of thislanguage. l ieknew that it m ea nt thi s , t h at hi s M a j esty had' declined to en- , gage in any expressions on this subject, that he might remain unbound by any pledge or compact, at full liberty to take that course which the interests of this country might dictate.---7 What more than this could be desired. He would appeal to the House if here his Majesty had not acted as wisely as' ge nerously. This was acting a just part towards Spain, M o nar- . chical or Constit u ti ona l, an d i t was t h e b est course that rota. , be taken for the Colonies themselves, as a ereater boon would be offered eventually to them than would be given by our se perate recognition now. Conceded upon mature deliberation,' it would be the more satisfactory and efficient, and we should stand justified bef ore G o d an d man for the course we had deemed it our duty to pursue. On this subject our answer had been given to the Court of Spain. It was now on its veal to Madrid, and a time would probably arrive when Ministers I g Warr - , fre - 9111 .efe e . th, ) ,7 his cQ .aat in t e [tha he t rquestit