The Sun. — London, England, 1842-03-04 00:00:00

/ I A MEETING OF - THE SOCIETY OF • FRIENDS TO FOREIGNERS IN DISTRESS. A meeting of this Society was held yesterday at the • London Tavern, Bishopsgate-street, fur the purpose of receiving the report of the present year, and of electing pensioners to the funds of the Society. JOHN LABOUCHERE, Esq., was called to the Chair. The SECRETARY read the minutes of the • last meet •and the Report, by which it appeared that the funds of. the Society were in a very satisfactory state. AtteF paying all the expenses, which amounted to 2,1391. 12s. 5d.,- including the expenses for the pen sioners, and for sending home 140 individuals, a balance of 3031. 3s. 9d: remained in the Treasurer's hands. • Since the commencement of the Society, relief had been granted in 59,214 cases, at the rate of 1,2001. per annum. To meet the expenditure, besides the receipts of the annual dinner, which amounted to 1,1601., and the an nual subscriptions received by the Collector, the follow ing donations were received : From her Majesty, 1001. ; Queen Dowager, 101. 103. ; the Queen of Hanover 10/. ; King of the Belgians, p/ ;- Duke of Cambridge, 25/. ; D u chess of Cambridge, • 101. 10s. ; Duchess of Gloucester, 1.0/. 10s. ; Duchess of Kent, 101. 10s. ; King of Prussia, 500/. The number of candidates to be placed on the Pension List amounted to 37, but of these the funds of the So ciety did not permit more than nine to be elected. The following is the number of individuals from each country who were relieved in the fast year :—Africa, 74 ; Asia, 18 ; Corsica, 6 ; Denmark, 71 ; France, 141 ; Germany, incuding Austria and Bavaria, 873 ; Greece, 7 ; Java, 1 ; 53 ; lonian Islands, 1 ; Netherlands, 311 ' - Poland, 49 ; Portugal, 20 ; Prussia, 201 ;_ Ragusa andßussia, ; and Naples,s ; Spain, 44 ; Sardinia and Genoa, I ; Sweden, 77 ; Turkey, 2 ; Switzerland, - 40 ; Venice, 11 ; United States, 16. Mr. TI ARKS moved, and Mr: HENSINGS seconded, the adoption of the Report, which was passed unanimously. The Rev. Dr. SCHWABE moved the thanks of the Meeting to the Chairman and Treasurer, John La bouchere, Esq., and that he be requested to continue in the same office for the ensuing year. He was aware of the many claims which other duties imposed upon his time, and therefore they should be the more grateful for that time which he devoted to the interests of their Society. and the benefits which thereby accrued to it. Ile trusted, however, that' he never would have came to regret the sacrifices he made for the interests of the Society, and that, while he continued to be a benefactor to the dis- . tressed, he might obtain many valuable blessings for him self, and it was their wish that the Almighty Giver of all good might long preserve and enable him to continue to be the protector and benefactor of the Society.---(Hear.) The motion having been seconded, The eIIAIRMAN said that he thanked the meeting most . warmly for the kind manner in which his name had been received. Ile could assure the meeting he felt a deep interest in the welfare and success of the Society. The more he looked into the subject, the more convinced he felt that the Institution had a strong claim upon all who were - interested in the well-being of their fellow . creatures. It was at present in a very prosperous condi . dition ; and he was h.-.ppy to state' that they were not obliged to, encroach upon their funded capital of 7,7501. The reason was partly hiving to the liberal donation of the King of Prussia.—(Loud cheering.) He con tributed very liberally to every. leading institution in the country, but the largest contributiod he made was to th at Society, which was the mere valuable, because it was a proof of the eStimly ion iu which the Society was held by that illustrious indilidual, who. was eminent no less for his Leigh rank than for the anxious Cesire he mani fested to promote the temporal and spiritual welfare of all.---- ! (Cheers.) But a , , twithstanding that liberal contri bution of the King of Prussia, they should keep in Hind that they were not able to relliNe all the appli cants for relief. The iminbcr %V a 3 inereasin2, - from year to year, but he trusted that not only by their -o..yn contributions, but also by raising up new friends in belnef' 0: the Society, th:: woall ehabic the institution, not only to keep the rutini.,r •usioners at present on the list, but even to increase that number.- 7 (llear.) Mr. DoxAT said h.! could iii)t avoid expr.;ssing the grwittale he felt for the int rest tiII:JAI in the Institu!:on by their excellent Ch.-.irman, but he could assure him that much and highly as the; i ante of Labouchere was respected at home, it was prized and blessed abroad by many a foreigner who experNateed the benefits of his ge; - v;rosty and devotion to their cauzio.—(C!teers.) The CHAIR:v.I.N sdd it was gratifying to announec th" , .y 1:a1 received, besides the annuity of 50 /. le r t by 'th,2 late Charles Pica:hell, for unsuccessful dates, 1.01. ;runt a lady in Bath for the same purpose, an:l that Mr. Brandt caarged himself with the support of another candidate. • The Aulitors of the last year were re-appointed. The followiT , Directors were elected :—D. Meinertz ha!,,n, llo'Jert F. Gower, David Salomons, John '.en, . C. A. Puller; and J. L. Le:nrne, Esqrs. Two S,Tutineers were then appointed, and the Meet- ing :;:,paratol SPIRIT. of the PUBLIC JOURNALS. FROM THE EILENING ,PAPERS Of YESTERDAY. GLOBE.—The appointment of Inspectors, whose duty it is to visit anti examine. the state of the different pri sons of the kingdom, and to report the result of their ob servations cad inquiries, formed a pert of the pbm by whish the late G wernment proposed to equalize the punishment et* criminals s:nteneed to imprisonment, a,,1 wader the cli,,ipline of gaols subservient t Cna 4 re:a l ete,ese oF reforiniwg their prisolier,;. Tfae repJrts Of the Prison I 1: pectoris, Av1at.01.,141vi.: ? ,. been. by ,order el 14.: house o f_ c hraivao rn - ,,, twoie how.. much ttm : v _of oji,.,crs mesliatstiy:a•esperisitle tunsel in eonstaatt coannualcation svitit the-Gal:en:intent, were required. It - was. scarcely creflible - that—after so much had been said and done within the walls of Parliament for the - improvement of criminal prisons, and by philanthropists • who made prison discipline the object of their 'speeial study and constant . aim--:these Objects, after so much care, should have been found so far from what they oaght to be, fNyhe i her the designs of their institution be considered with reference to the unhappy subjects of their dis cipline, or to the interests of sotrasy. If a criminal. sentenced to imprisonment is ever to be liberated, and again. permitted to mix in society, it is obvious that nothing should be done, and least of all done on purpose, to make him a worse member of society morally or physically, than when, he was com .. mitt( d to prison. For a long series of years this obvious truth was alMost wholly disregarded. Because punish ment was inflicted in prisons, it was supposed that pri sons were only provided fur the infliction of punish ment. .The means were therefore, it must be con fessed, ;adapted to the end. In many instances the health of the prisoners became seriously, if . not incurably, affected by the filthy anti crowded state Of the wards and cells into which they were thrust. In other 'cases, the want of employment and the absence of• classification, confirmed habits of idleness, the in dulgence " of which had been the - precursor of crime. By bringing the juvenile offender into contact with the more expert.and confirmed dep:cdator, the latent prin ciples of virtue were eradicated, - and he was returned to society more hardened and depraved than when he was committed to prison. Hence the considerate por • tion of the public became indisposed to prosecute the young otfender against honesty. They shrunk from the idea of converting a petty offender into a hardened villain, or the visiting of a youthful failing with loath someness and disease. Thus criminals_ escaped, and iiit'panity.Micouraged crime,which spread its baneful influ ence through society. Were prisons properly managed --Were the refermation and punishment of criminals provided for—and the public satisfied that such are the objects sought and reasonably secured—instead of any disinclination •being•felt, the laws will be put in execu tion against the offenders, from a conviction that to arrest the progress of the criminal is not merely a benefit to society, but a blessing to himself. STANDARD.—Two amendments to the Ministerial proposition Of the Corn-laws were offered to the House of Commons. The first, which suggested an altera tion of the terms of the sliding scale, was introduced by Mr. Esßuller in a speech of some length, in which the Honourable Gentleman recommended his plan as a compromise that was to give general satisfaction. It was opposed by Sir Robert Peel on the ground that he had held out no encouragement to further com promise, and, as little likely to be so universally satisfac tory as the mover thought ; and the event curiously • #erified the Right Hon. Baronet's prediction, for Mr. E. could not - find on either side a single member to 'we'd his proposition,. which acecordingly fell to the ground. "The second amendment was offered by Mr. Mastic.; it proposed the admission annually of a million quarters of wheat at a shilling duty, the prefer ence to be given to the earliest arrivals. Sir Robert Peel bestowed some pleasantry upon the race for corn ships that siould be thus instituted, and remarked., upon the undue advantages that it would give to Rotterdam, Antwerp, and the other nearer ports. Mr. Mastic then withdrew his motion; but not until the expo sure Of its necessary effect had` produced a little mirth. The motion was,.. no doubt, an absurd one ; but its objects, and the arguments by which Mr. Mastic supported it, suggeSt some useful considerations. Tito object is to secure at all times a suf fiCient supply of foreign corn in the country in aid of the domestic supply ; and this supplemen tary -- supply Mr. Mastic estimated at a million of quarters, by insuring which the manifold evils of large purchases abroad would be obviated. These evils, in relation to the exchange find the currency, Mr. Mastic described very forcibly, and as we think very truly. It might, however, have occurred to the honourable Member for Paisley, that there is another and a safer, and a perfectly practicable mod of obviating the evil of large purchases abroad—at least of greatly mitigating that evil. What would he think of augmenting the domestic supply, so as to render such purchases altogether unnecessary on the average of years, or at least necessary to aNery small extent ? COURIER.—Being fully satisfieti that there is no more effectual way of giving the go-bye to any question, hawever intrinsically important, than by referring it to a Select Committee of the House of Coiuinons to be re. ported upon, we-rejoice at the result of Mr. Duncombe's motion-on the subject of prison discipline, and at the eXposurd of the gross abuses by which it was accom panied. Now, there is no subject upon which the executive Government can act with greater freedom— none on which it will encounter less stiMl:orn resistance —than in its endeavours to render the sentence of the law equable, and by the establishment of an unifor m , system of prison discipline. . Heretofore it oFten hap 4pened from a diversity in prison repdations, and other ircumstances that parties convicted of similar offences and sentenced ta a similar amountof puniskonent, under went in reality very different degrees of'punishment thereby prejudicing the administration of justice in public estimation, and inflicting upon persons equally guilty in the eye of the law u totally different measure ,or,punishment.. That . great improvsment in the regu littiona affecting prisoners has- taken place within . the last few years, and 'that considerable progress towards the introduction of a uniform system of discipline has been made, was admitted on all hands, and in no grudging spirit, especially by Sir J. Graham, who availed himself of that opportunity to bear testimony to the success of the efforts made by Lord John Russell to correct abuses, supply defects, and otherwise improve the system of prison regulations. One great object should never be lost sight of, and that is, that no arbitrary rules of visiting justices —no stub born adherence to previous regulations—should be allowed to interfere with the due enforcement of the law, either in the way of diminishing or aggra vating the punishment awarded to criminals ; but, above all, especial regard should be paid to the condition of untried prisoners, the safe custody of their persons, and not the hardship of incarceration, being the sole reason for their being detained in prison. LAW INTELLIGENCE. VICE - CHANCELLORS' COURT, March 3. (Before Vice-Chancellor WIGRAM.) SULTEEL V. LORD ABINGER. In this case Sir T. Wilde, Mr. Coleridge, and Mr. Milne appeared for th e pl a i n tiff ; the Solicitor-General, Mr. Simp kinson, and Mr. Loftus Wigram for the defendant; and Mr. Sharp, and Mr. Romilly for Sir Edmund and Mr. Benjamin Currie. Sir T. WILDE said he appeared in this case as counsel fer the plaintiff Mr. Bulteel, who had filed a bill against Lod Abinger, Sir Edmund Currie, and Benjamin Currie, for the specific performance of an agreement for the sale of an estate, called the Bagshot Estate, which belonged to his late Royal Hiehnesa the Duke of Gloucester. The defendants were, the executors of the Duke of Gloucester, under whose will they were trustees for sale, either by public auction or private contract. The Duke died on the 30th of November, 1834. - It appeared that the trustees, under the advice of Mr. Benjamin Currie, who acted as their solicitor, offered the estate for sale by auction, in July 1835, and again in June, 1836, but upon neither of those eccasions was there any bidding, though every means was taken to effect a sale. On the I2th of June, 1838, the estatelwas put up a third time, and upon that occasion there appeared to have been an arrangement that the reserved bidding should be 25,000/. No bidder coming up to that sum the estate was bought in. Ultimately, under circumstances which he would state, there was an agreement made by the defendants, Sir Edtnund Currie and Mr. Benjamin Currie, acting on their own behalf, and on be half of Lord Abinger, with the plaintiff, for the sale of the estate for the sum of 25,000/. On the 26th of July, the de fendant, Mr. Benjamin Currie, wrote to his co-trustee, Lord Abinger, a letter, communicating the fact of that sale ; and that letter was the contract for the sale of the estate, upon the validity of which his Honour would be called upon to,decide. The general nature of the question in the cause, was the autho rity either of Sir Edmund Currie or Mr. Benjamin Currie, to make a sale of the estate ; \end he believed it would be con tended first, that they never had any authority, it being revoked before the agreement for the sale was executed. The cir cumstances of the case as discovered in the pleadings were these. The estate was charged with considerable legacies, and among others, Sir Edmund Currie was very largely interested in the proceeds. From July, 1835, to July, 1838, ineffectual endea vours had been made to procure a purchaser. At last an ar rangement was made which would have terminated in a convey ance of the estate but for the objection which was the subject of discussion in that suit. Both before and after the sale by auc tion in June, IS3B, there had been a treaty on foot with the Woods and Forests, who were desirous of purchasing the estate if they could agree upon terms. It appeared also that Mr. Robert Scarlett, the son of Lord Abinger, was nego tiating for the purchase. Whilst these negotiations were pending, Lord Abinger went the Oxford circuit. On the 23d of July, his Lorthip either from a knowledge that his son was, or from an anticipation that he would become, a ne gotiator, wrote to Mr. Benjamin Currie to this eff ct :—" My dear Sir,—Having heard that my son has made some proposal to you and Edmund," that was Sir Edmund Currie, who it appeared was Lord Abinger's son-in-law—" about the Rapley estate "—that was a name sometimes applied to the Bagshot estate—" I write to advise you that it is exclusively his own offer." He then stated ' that he would not, either directly or indirectly, interfere in the matter. It appeared that a com munication had taken place, first between Sir Edmund Currie and Mr. Robert Scarlctt, and afterwards be tive.m Mr. Robert Scarlett and Mr. Benjamin Currie, upon the subject of the purchase of the estate. Mr. Pen jamin Currie told Mr. Scarlett, that if he would state expli citly the utmost he would give, he would apply to the Words and Forests, to know whether they would bid higher ; but Mr. Scarlet t, disliking, to use his own expression, " tieing bandied about," declined making any advance upon his previous offer. Thus matters stood, the Woods and Forests having offered 21,0001. and Mr. Robert Searlett abort the same sum, and the latter disela;ming any intention to advance. At this time the plaintiff, Mr. Bulteel, who bad attended the auction, entered into a treaty . with Mr. Benjamin Currie and his partner, for the purchase of the estate. lie had at first offered only 00,000/. but continued advancing until the 23d of July when, being about to go abrord, and having already sent his car. iae,es, he offered 23,000/. and requesteitan immediate answer. Mr. llenjainin Currie dealt with him in the same manner as he had dealt with Mr. Robert Scarlett. Application was made to the Woods and Fothts who declined to snake any advance upon their previous offer, and to Mr. Robert Scarlett. at his own hott.e, who was discovered to have left town. Under these circumstances, a verbal agreeni. nt was made on the 25th of Ju'y, by Sir E. Currie and Mr Benjamin Currie, for the sale of the estate to the plaintiff. for the sum of 25,0001.: nd Mr. Buicel, being considered the purchaser, accompanied ' Sir Edmund to Bagshot. On the 26te, the following day, Mr. B. Cur is communirated the fart of the sale to Lord Ahitiger, with the amount for which the estate had been sold. On learning the fact of the sale, Mr. Robert Scarlett wrote to his father, ex pr. s inn his" indignation at the conduct of Edmund and Benja min Cur ie, at their want of plain dyeing and folly." 'I he letter concluded by praying that, if possible, his Lordship would " prevent the sale from being carried into effect." That prayer was unfortunately too successful, and its success had occasioned four yews' of expensive litigation. On the 27th of July Lord Abinger wrote to Mr. Benjamin Currie as fellows :—" My dear Sir—l have received your letter, but hav ing by the same post received communications wl.ich lead me to think that a higher price may be obtained for the estate than the sum of 25,000/., 1 cannot for the present consent to the sale of Ilagshot foe that sum. 1 think you should inform Mr. Bulteel of this without delay. As we :ill as truste, s, we are bound to get the highest possible price berme we sign a contract. fshall he in town towards the end of next week." It rhould be observed that this letter did nut state that a higher price had been offered, but that he thought, from communica tions he had received, that a higher one might be obtained. The Learned Counsel then proceeded to state, that notwith standing this letter, Mr. Benjamin Currie and Sir Edward Currie considered themselves bound to complete the contract wit is Mr. Bulteel, and accordingly it was signed by them on the 30th of July. He contended that they were fully authorised to de so, and that a Court of Equitrwould, under all the circum stances, decide in favour of the purchase by Mr. Bolted. The Learned Counsel then proceeded to read a number of let ters, which passed between the various parties to the suit sub seq-Jent to the transaction. It appeared that Mr. Robert Scarlett subsequently offered 26,000/. ; and that, at the sug gestion of Lord Abinger, a sub-contract was entered into be tween Mr• Scarlctt and the trustees, which was to take effect only in ease a Court of Equity should decide against the right of Mr. Bulteel to have the contract completed. After com menting at great length upon the correspondence, and upon all the circumstances connected with the transaction, the Learned Counsel concluded by submitting that the plaintif was entitled to a specific performance of the agreement. Mr. COLERIDGE followed on the same side. The plaintiff's case was not concluded when the Court rose. The hearing will be resumed to-morrow (this day). IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, March 3. The LORD CHANCELLOR took hi 3 seat on the Wool sack at Five o'Clock. MESSAGE FROM. THE COMMONS. A Messzge from the Commons, by Mr. GREENE and others, brought up the Spirit Duties' Bill, and the Mar riages (Ireland) Bill, which were severally read a first, and ordered to be read a second time to-morrow. Mr. LEACH presented some papers from the Court of Chancery in Ireland. EXC II EQUER BILLS. Lord MONTEAGLE begged leave to give notice that he should defer. his motion relating t.) Exchequer Bills till to-morrow. PRESBYTERIAN MIXED MARRIAGES. Earl ENNISKILLEN presented petitions on the subject of Presbyterian Marriages in Ireland, from several places in the counties of Enniskillen, Donegal, and Kilmarnock. Lord MINTO presented a petition against the Corn laws, from Hawick. LorcYCAMPBELL presented several petitions from the counties of Down and Antrim, in Ireland, praying for the legalization of marriages between Presbyterians and members of the Established Church. _ _ Lord BROUGIIAM presented a petition from the congregation of Independent Dissenters in Newport, Monmouthshire, praying for a repeal of the Corn-laws ; also apetition from a place in Essex, praying for a change in the system of taking the averages according to the sliding scale ; also a petition from South Shields, pray ing for the entire and immediate repeal of the Corn-laws ; and another petition from Pontefract,. to the same effect ; also a petition from the congregation of Glenelly, county of Tyrone, to the same effect. All those petitions were from congregations in connexion With the Pres byterian Church of Ireland. He was anxious to learn the result of the meeting of the General Assembly of Ireland, which was about to be held on the subject, before their Lordships proceeded to the dis cussion of the Bill which had berm introduced into the other House ; but he was anxious that this should be done with as little delay as possible. The LORD CHANCELLOR suggested that both objects-might be met by taking the second reading of the Bill, and discussing it in Committee on Monday NATIONAL EDUCATION (IRELAND). The Earl of ENNISKILLEN presented several peti tions from places in the diocese of Tuam, against' the present srtem of National Education in Ireland. REGULATION OF APPRENTICESHIPS. On the motion of Lord WHAUNCLIFFE the Regu lation of Apprenticeships Bill was read a first time. 'Their Lordships then adjourned. HOUSE OF COI - MONS, MARCH 3. The SPEAKER took the Chair shortly before sour )'(' (wk. Mr. BARNARD presented a petition from St. Mary Magdalene, Bermondsey, against the Greenwich Rail way Bill (No. 1.) BIRMINGHAM AND LIVERPOOL CANAL BILL. Mr. CLIVE brought in the Liverpool and Birming ham Canal Bill (Nos. 1 and 2), which were read a first, and ordered to be read a second time. C ORN•LAW S. Major BRYANT presented a petition from Mallow, against the Corn-law Bill. Mr. BLEWE'rr presented petitions to a similar effect, from Newport, Salford, and several other places. Colonel GORE LAN G'I'ON presented eight petitions, having t similar oltjee, from places in Somersetshire. 12r. STOCK presented similar petitions. from Tip perary. • CHURCH OF -ENGLAND_ Sir B. INGTLIS presented a petitio 1 from the Bath (itureh of England Association, praying for the protec tion of that Church from the unhallowed machinations of her enemies. CORN-LAWS. Mr. RICARDO presented two petitions from various parts of the Metropoli.= praying for a repeal of the Corn-laws. Mr. G. BANKES presented a petition on the sub jc,2t of the Corn-laws from the bankers, mer chants, shipown ers , an d ot h er men o f t h e highest respectability of the borough of Poole, stating THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, MARCH 4, 1842 that they viewed the sliding scale with appro bation, and praying that it may make part of the mea sure to be enacted in that House relative to the Corn laws ; they wished also to express incidentally their full confidence in her Majesty's Government. Mr. O'CONNELL' presented six petitions from the tradesmen of the city of Limerick and elsewhere, pray ing for the total and immediate repeal of the Corn-laws. Also-five petitions from Newry, Kilkenny, Sligo, Ath lone, &c., praying for the restoration of the Irish Par liament. Dr. BOWRING presented five petitions from the cotton dyers and workmen engaged m different factories in Manchester, praying for the total and immediate re peal of the Corn-laws. Sir J. BECKETT presented a petition (we understood from Leeds), complaining of great destitution consequent upon exclusive legislation, and praying for the removal of all restrictions upon food, for vote by ballot, the extension of the elective franchise, short parliaments, no property qualification, and the payment of Members. Mr. MUNTZ presented a petition from the millowners of Birmingham, praying for protection for the manufac turers of flour. TITHES. Lord NORREYS presented a petition from the Arch deacon and Clergy of Oxford, against the present mode of rating tithes in Oxford. SOUTHWARK IMPROVEMENT BILL. Mr. B. WOOD brought in the Southwark Improve ment Bill, which was read a first time. LIVERPOOL POLICE BILL. Lord SANDON presented a petition from the licensed victuallers of Liverpool, praying to be heard at the bar of the House against the Liverpool Police and Improve ment Bill. Mr. AINSWORTH presented five petitions from trades at Manchester, praying for the repeal of the Corn-laws. Lord CLAUDE HAMILTON presented a petition from Tyrone, praying for an alteration in the law re lating to Presbyterian marriages in Ireland ; also a pe tition from Wandsworth (as we understood), praying for the opening of Vauxhall-bridge. Mr. VILLIERS presented petitions from Sheffield, Huddersfield, Adderloy, Galashiels, Forfar, Ayr, Edin burgh, Dundee, Arbroath, Grimsby, Saltcoats and seve ral other places, praying for a total and immediate repeal of the Corn-laws. Mr. FOX MAULE presented a petition from the Presbyterian congregation of Antrim, praying for an al teration in the laws relating to Presbyterian marriages in Ireland ; also a petition from Montrose, praying that the House would no longer sanction a law that withheld bread from a famishing people. Mr. E. TENNENT presented a petition relative to mixed marriages in Ireland. IRISH POPULATION RETURNS. Dr. BOWRING asked the Noble Lord, the Secretary for Ireland, when the Irish population returns would be likely to be laid on the table of the House ? Lord ELIOT, in reply, read an extract from a com munication he had received from the Population Commis sioners, stating the counties were nearly completed, and the province of Munster was then in progress ; the whole work, they expected, would be finished by the Ist of July. The Commissioners also stated that they had found the work more heavy than they h.i,d expected, as the returns would not only include the population, but important statistic details relating to the education of the people, their longevity, and their means of support. • IRISH CHARITIES. • In answer to a question from Colonel CONOLLY, Lord ELIOT stated that the Bill for the rel„ - ;mlation of [risk charities was in such a state of progress, that he loped he should be able to lay it shortly on the table of he House. SUPPLY OF GRAIN. An IloN. MEMBER wished to ask the Right }lon. Baronet, the First Lord of the Treasury, whether it was the intention of her Majesty's Government, in regulating the supply of c•nrn, to establish some means of ascer taining correctly, or as near as possible, the number of acres sown annually in the United Kingdom, specifying the different kinds of grain, and also the quantity of produce thereof, so as to be able to estimate, when the system is in operation, whether, with a fair average crop, there was a sufficient quantity sown for the consu:nption of the United Kingdom. . Sir ROBERT PEEL said that the House was aware, probaly, that there had existed, in con nection with' the Board of Trade, a department for the purpose of collecting statistical information is reference. to the commerce and exports of the country. There had been a recent • addition made to that depart ment fur the purpose of collecting statistical information connected with agriculture ; but that information would have reference to facts and not to estimates. He thought nothing could be more unwise than for a Woverntnent to undertake to collect information :or _the purpose of enabling individuals to form in opinion as to the probable supply. He apprehended that the probable supply, and - the consideration of what means should be adopted for the purpose of supplying, a deficiency, - hal- much better ; be, left-.to the natural operations of commerce than to any interference on the part of Government. Although it might be proper to - collect statistical information' with re ference to agriculture he should deprecate the publication of any information on the part of the Government, for the purpose of enabling individuals to form an opinion as to whether there were or were not a sufficient supply. Mr. O'CONNELL gave notice, that on the blouse going into Committee of Supply on the Army and Navy Estimates, he would call the attention of the 'douse to the religious destitution of Catholics in her - Majesty's service. On the motion of Mr. MILES, certain returns of County Treasurers' accounts were ordered. NAVY ESTIMATES. Captain PECHELL wished to ask the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government whether it would be convenient for him to state on what day he proposed to bring forward the Navy Estimates. It appeared from the Notices that the Government intended to bring for ward the Army and Navy Estimates, but it was not stated which they intended to bring forward first. Sir R. PEEL said that the Navy Estimates would be brought forward first. HILL COOLIES. Mr. HOGG said that there had been laid on the table of the House copies of despatches from the Secretary of the Colonies, and the President of the Board of Control, to the Directors of the East India Company, transmitting a copy of the Order in Council regulating the introduction of natives of India into the Mauritius, and also, copies of despatches, containing the opinions of her Majesty's ➢lia,isters regarding the supply of free labour from India to the Mauritius. They had required the Court of Di rectors to transmit those despatches to the Governor- General of India, to be by him laid before the Legis lative Council in India for their opinion. The question which he wished to ask was, whether the President of the Board of` Control would, before those documents were sent out to India, have any objection to lay on the table of the House a copy of the despatches which the Court of Directors had sent out on the subject, and of the instructions which they had issued to the authorities in India. Mr. B. BARING said, that as the object of the Go vernment was that the utmost publicity should be given to everything relating to the subject of the emigration of the,Hill Coolies from India to the Mauritius, there could be no objection to laying those papers on the table. RAILROADS (IRELAND). _ _ On the application of the' CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, Mr. FRENCH postponed his motion on the subject of Railroads in Ireland which stood upon the paper, this eveninx. COPYRIGHT. Lord MAHON postponed his motion for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the law relating to Copyright. lle would now postpone his motion at the request of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in order to enable the Right Hon. Gentleman to bring forward his motion on the subject of Exchequer bills. PRISON DISCIPLINE. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said he wished to ask the Right Hon. Baronet opposite (Sir J. Graham) whether the statement he made in reply to him, a few evenings ago, was correct ? The Right Hon. Baronet stated, that out of the 1,207 prisoners who were sentenced to corporal punish ment, 70 only were adults. But on looking to the official returns, he found the number of adults amounted to 482, so that he apprehended the Right lion. Baronet was under a wrcino• 6 impression when he made his statement. Sir J. GRAHAM would give the best explanation in his power to the Hon. Gentleman. It was quite true that, out of 70,000 adults confined in prisons in the year 1841, 482 persons were subjected to corporal punishment. Out of these 314 received that punishment in execution of sentence passed upon them, and 70 only out of the 70,000 received corporal punishment for breach of prison discipline. IMPORTATION OF INDIANS. Mr. BINGHAM BARING said that perhaps he might now be allowed to answer the question put by the Hon. Gentleman the Member for Inverness (Mr. Baillie), a few evenings ago, as to whether the Board of Control turned its attention to the importation of Lascars from India, who were wandering about the streets in a state of destitution. He had promised to make an inquiry into the subject, and he might state that the attention of the Court of Directors, and of the Board of Trade, would also be drawn to the subject. THE EXCHEQUER BILL FRAUD. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then rose Lhe said, I am glad, Sir, that the Noble Lord, and the Honourable Gentleman opposite, have enabled me to bring be:ore the House a subject of great public and individual importance, and that 1 am now at liberty to recur to the assistance of Parlia inent for a complete development of a transaction which has lately engaged a large portion of public t, at tention, and which has been to all concerned in the administration o f the financial department of the country, for some months past , a source of e unceasing labour th u o n r c i e t a ie si t, ig and though anxi anxiety. the Government has applied itself to Al thoughobtaining the subject n ad has been n fully di scusse d by the Government au parts of that transaction w hi c h affair, yet there are a complete development of all the circumstances of th e Ltnnot be completely developed without calling on Par liament for its assistance. The object, therefore, which I now have in view this evening, is to submit to the House the measure which I have thought it expe dient that Parliament should adopt, in order that theivhole transaction may be fully known both to this House, to l'arli:xment, and to the country. In proposing the mea sure whi c h I shall submit to the House, it is not my intention to enter into any examination of what may have been the defects of the system under which Exchequer Bills have heretofore be 3n fabricated and issued, nor to discuss what changes it may be essential to make, either in the law which ,Fo verns their issue, Or the regulations . under which they have berm issued. That will be a sub ject for future .dis2ussion, when. sufficient time shall have been allowed to weigh well the recom mendations that have been submitted to the House, in the Report of the Commissioners ; and when time has been allowed for those most and the Exchequer, to suggest_ what improvements may be made in the law for the p r e ven ti on , as f ar as l human means can prevent, the repetition of crimes simi lar to that which forms the subject of our present attention. I Before, however, I explain to Parliament the nature of the measure which I shall propose to them to adopt, I conversant with the business b o th o f th e T reasur y may be permitted briefly to advert to the cir cumstances of the case, an d to th e p os ition no doubt, known to all those whom I have the honour to address. An extensive fraud has been committed by means of a forgery of public securities to a very considerable amount. That for . . in which we now stand. The outline of the case is, for gery was committed by a breach of confi dence on the part of a public officer, and by one of those gross violations of duty, which hap pily are rare in the annals of this country, but which, in proportion as they are rare, create, when they do occur, general sensation and considerable alarm. The mode in which the fraud was commit ted was simply this :—an individual in the department having had reposed in him the confidence of his supe riors; having been in that department for twenty eight years; being connected with parties who had themselves, both in the civil and military r an individual who had s d e ist v i i n ee guis e h f ed the eountry _ enjoyed the :uninterrupted Confidence of a series of auditors and comptrollers in his department—who had received the strongest testimonies as to his ability and honesty from Lord Grenville, Lord Auckland, Sir J. Newport, and until of late of the present Comptroller of the Exchequer, had been guilty of the deplorable crime of violating a most sacred duty, and abusing the poWers which he possessed to defraud the public, in whose ser vice he had been so long employed, and - whom he was under the strongest obligations of duty to serve with honour and good faith. The mode in which he committed the fraud was by possessing himself of pa pers entrusted to him in his official capacity, and having so from h possessedte office himselfein w of h 't ie ht i ) i s eh lie served, orderto forge the by withdrawing name of the Noble Lord, whose signature Exchequer Bills were by law bound to bear. He then availed himself of these forged Bills as negotiable instruments. But this was an offence which if it had not been committed guardedly and with great pre caution would have admitted of easy detec tion. The course this indiVidual pursued assisted by agents, whose crime, perhaps, did not equal, but certainly approached near to ' that of the principal in the . transaction—the mode in which ,he conducted the fraud, was to give those Exchequer bills, so forged, as deposits for loans of money on condition that the very bills so depo- sited for loans should be returned to him on pay ment of the money, or on other. Exchequer bills being given in the room of those which had been originally deposited. Thus by constantly at each suc cessive change of Exchequer bills forging new bills, with a view to replace those forged bills already outstanding, he contrived effectually to prevent the presentation of the forged bills at the Exchequer , Office, and to hinder their general circulation among the commercial- community of the Metropolis. Thus, he committed in the first instance a breach of every honourable obligation, and afterwardi, by an artful concealment of the forged instruments issued, he succeeded in escaping the detection to which a different course would have certainly exposed him. On the 20th of 03tobor last an individual called upon me at my, office, and informed me that an offer had been made to him of Exchequer bills in deposit in re turn for a loan of money, and he told me that the rate of interest offered to him' upon the loaa had so far exceeded the market rate of interest that he sus pected the bills had been stolen, or that they n ere the property of some other person. Upon that information haVing been communicated to me I felt it was my duty, and I lost no time, to inquire into the matter.—(llear, hear.) In consequence of the information given to me, as I already stated on the 20th of October, the result was, that, on the 25th of the same month, in consequence of the inquiry which was instituted, the guilty author was taken into custody.—(Ministerial cheers.) Five days only' had been occupied in bringing to light a fraud. ' which had been so long perpetrating.—(Cheers.) Let it not be supposed that I mention that fact to gain any credit for the Government, or for their activity, far from it ; but I do it for this reason. It is surprising that when so many persons had been engaged in the fraud— amongst the many persons who must have been cognizant of it—there was not one public officer who had given any information whatever on the subject, and the result of the immediate inquiry instituted was, that this fraud, which aas earried on from April, 1830, till October, 10341, had been detected in the' short space of time I have already - mentioned.—(Cheers.) Timis is an important matter for the House to bear in mind—it is important to bear in mind that in the progress of this fraud no information had been given to load to its detection.. Upon the discovery of the offence, the Government' had but one course to pursue. The first course was to bring to punishment the offender by whose agency this extensive fraud had b. en committed. The unhappy man made a full confession of his guilt, and means were taken for getting hold of the agent who had been principally concerned in assisting him to dispose of those Bills. An application was made to the Government by both pdittes, for a remission of punish ment, if they gave information upon the subject. An application was made on the part of Smith, the principal, that he might receive commutation of his pun ishment if he pleaded guilty . , and gave the Government information. Of course, it was impossible for the Government to accept such a proposal. Their duty was to bebome acquainted with the minutest de • tails of the 'fraud, and to punish to the utmost the perpetrators of it. They could not allow them to escape without punishment, and the answer the Government gave to that application was that no attention could be paid to it, and that the law with the utmost rigour should take its course.—(Cheers from the Ministerial benches.) With respect to the other individual, the Government thought it right to ad mit him in evidence, bearing in mind the great importance there existed to succeed in a convic tion of the principal offender, and bearing in mind the great importance to obtain as far as possible the most minute information respecting the matter. I am fully prepared to defend the conduct of the Government (Cheers) —although I am not diposed to think that any person acquainted with the circumstances of the case will be at all disposed to queStion that conduct.—(Hear.) It so happened also that the individual, after the other application had been refused, himself applied. The in dividual, after the other party had been admitted as evi dence, after haling retained counsel, and given informa tionwith respect to the signing of the bills, thought proper to plead guilty ; and there have been complaints, that through that plea of guilty—to which the Government, though they have been accused of it, were, I am sure, in no degree accessory—the public have been deprived of that develop ment of the whole circumstances which would have been made. Having convicted the offender, another important duty remained to be performed, namely, to re •establish the credit which had been so greatly shaken. To effect this no other means could be adopted than the difficult and laborious one of calling in the Exchequer bills, ex amining them separately in the offi ce f rom w hi c h th e y gad ben issued, stamping them with a mark to denote their genuineness, and then re-issuing them,to the public. And here I should be guilty of the greatest injustice if I did not pay a tribute to the assiduity and zeal of the Comptroller of the Exchequer, who, being called upon to perform a duty in some degree foreign to the office which he held, devoted his whole time for a very considerable period to the personal superintendence of the necessary arrangements. To his exertions on that occasion the public were in debted for the short time which elapsed be tween the presentation of the bills at the Exchequer and their re-issue to the public, and, therefore, to their not being exposed for a longer time to the inconvenience which must result from the withdrawal of so large' a mass of securities from the public service. --(Hear, hear.) Having provided for this necessity, the Government proceeded to a task which was obviously necessary, namely, to institute an inquiry as to what were the re gulations of the office from which these Bills were issued, with a view to recommending such alterations as might be necessary to prevent the occurrence of similar evils in future. For that purpose they selected individuals, of whom I need not say that as they are most distinguished for their ability, so they stand most high in character, as upright and honourable men—men who are neither likely on the one hand to be influ enced by popular prejudice, nor on the othei to pay army deference to any wish which might be felt in any quarter to veil whatever might have been amiss, or to keep it back from public observation. To these gentlemen I cannot sufficiently express my obligations for having, at great inconvenience to them selves, undertaken a public duty of a laborious and irksome character,and having devoted so much of their time , l trust it will be admitted with benefit to the p ublic. Now, Sir, I do not mean at the present moment to enter into the question of.the Report. Hon. Gentlemen are fully aware of its contents, and a time shall have to submit to the House regulations necessary . will come when I for hereafter establishing the whole question arising upon that Report, and when it will proper y the consideration of Parliament. those who thought ever remark, as an answer to of what took I may here how place in the office of the Exchequer time Government desired concealment ; admitted one of and who taxed us with having e and induced the parties as Queen's evidence, gentlemen se lnienatnd the Treasury, to screen the Smith to plead guilty, with a view Government, there could -not be stronger proof labours to th a those of its fallacy, than the investigations of who had submitted the result of th eir House. The Government had the power to act— s fore it. But act when the circumstances ar be in this case, as Sir, there is something more required xa naination of official the Government acted as I think the House will it appears to ine, than the mere persons. It must be obvious, shaft details of which I completion of the crime, the ;u h examination in order to the have given to the .House, two circumstancas. One was a •want , of caution of the State—a want of on the part of that department there n st ave been caution I admit which has been shown for many years past. But, Si r , f or 150 y ea rs nooffence whatev er has been committed of a similar character. Nor had any thi ng occurred which cou ld l ea d to a suspition that Exchequ er bills had been forged—and something more was ne cessary than a b..each of confidence. on the part o f the individual in office, or Want .of strength in the official regulations, to tempt an individual to this offence. 'I say, Si r , an d I say it advisedly , that this offen ce could not have b een committed in the mids t of time in telligent commun i ty w hi c h inhabits the metropoli s without the p erson b e i ng in co mmunication with some persons, I will na, say who .were conscious of the guilt, givenin eln iinformation. will fo s r a n y . : a t w i( l ) i n o . must mid duty it wa s . to h ave , whose sir, we gave the result of the had e some knowledg e o f t h e transaction going on, and first detection of the offence. No sooner were the proceedings taken against the individual Smith, than I received from various quarters details of suspicious cir- cumstances that had occurred. I understood from one gentleman that he had been offered Exchequer bills for a loan, but he rejected them, as they were suspicious, and this gentlemen gave me to understand that the same par ties had a quantity of Exchequer bills—these individually devoid of character —that were all ready for signature. Thew are circumstances, on the part o.`: the public, which require to be inquired into, that we may properly understand the real nature of the subject. It is, therefore, with this view that I shall call upon Parliament to institute a specific inquiry —(Cheers)—Rot to be conducted by a Committee of this House—(Hear)—or by a mere Commision appointed by the Crown ; but, Sir, by a Commission appointed by Parliament to investigate the real nature of these several transactions ; to see how business was transacted by these several persons ; to know whether they were men of such suspicious characters that honest men would hardly be connected with them ; whether for the money advanced on the bills they received in return an interest beyond the market rate.—(Hear, hear.) These and a variety of other circumstances require to be rigidly and strictly investigated before the House can be called on to come to any final decision on the question ; nay, before we can be called on to understand the nature of the case with which we have to deal.—(Hear, hear.) Sir, an inquiry of this kind requires the highest moral consideration ;.it is essential that the public of the country should know how business is conducted. It is quite right they should knew it, because if we believe that the per sons at the head of this office were well ac quainted with the duties they had to perform, and exercised care and attention in their several occupations, and that these practices still occurred, a different set of regulations will be necessary. Sir, there is perhaps another circutnstance to which I ought to advert, which has been pressed on me by many gentlemen in a variety of ways. I allude to claims for compensation. To the claims so brought before me, I have, as I conceived it my duty to do, given the most decided refusal. The granting of claims for compensation, in a case of this kind, is to take away from the public the greatest security they have against the repetition of such offences, and is to do all in your power to render such practices of more frequent occurrence. Sir, if I were once to give my opinion that a man taking these bills were to be compensated for any loss he might undergo, what could I do more, to re move all blame froni him ; or what could I do more effectual to encourage a criminal individual to • seduce a public servant, being sure that the termination of the affair must be that he should- receive any money that he had expended ? I, therefore, Sir, have chosen to give the least encourage ment to propositions of this kind, and I do most decidedly advise the House and Parliament to weigh well all the considerations of this case, before they are led away by any statements of party or individual hardship, or individual suffering, before they yield to claims of this nature. Sir, it appears to me, I confess, before the House can enter on a question of the sort, that they must satisfy themselves that there is some distinction to be drawn between the law as it applies to forgery on indi viduals, and also to forgery oa the public—that they must make up their minds to this, that it is not expedient to give to the holder of a forged instrument a remedy against the party issuing it. I do not mean to say that there may not be instances wherein the House should forego this rule, but I advi , ,e them to resist any encouragement to parties, be they who they may, that their claims will be satisfied before the whole nature of the transaction be brought to light.—(dear, hear.) For, Sir, if it should appear that these crimes have been committed by means of putting confidence in suspi cious individuals—nay, in individuals more than suspi cious, whose conduct in previous transactions had given a taint .to them ; and if it should fur ther appear that there was a species of se cresy enjoined when these bills_ were deposited as security that was not usual ; if it should ap pear that the interest demanded was greater than under similar circumstances would be demanded upon fair and honourable transactions ; if it should ap ear that when a bill escape.l from what I shall call the imprisonment in which it was put, that a premium was offered to get hold of that particular bill —if I say all these circumstances should be the result of inquiry, I think, until those points are made clear, that the House and the. Government should ab stain from holding out the slightest expecta tion to any parties, that they are called upon to prevent the adoption of the ordinary course. With these views, therefore, I shall conclude by proposing to Parliament that theyshould appoint a Commission for the purpose of inquiring as to the receipt, circulation, and possession of certain forged Exchequer Bills.—(Hear.) An Honourable Gentleman opposite has given notice of a motion as an amendment to the one which I propose for that purpose, and referrinr , this 'natter to a Select Committee. I presume that the lonourable Gentleman's motion is, like mine, for the purpose of obtaining full knowledge of everything that has taken plaoe. I prefer the motion I shall submit to the - House to that of the Honourable Gentleman, and I trust that the Honourable Member will give me credit for not wishing to throw any obstacle in the way of this measure. I think that the course which I mean to pur sue is by far the better one. By appointing Commissioners they will have the power of appointing parties, who constitute in themselves high legal authority ; they will not be liable to be influenced by any consideration relative to constituency ; and they will be best qualified to investigate the real circumstances of the case. They wilt have the fullest power to make the most searching inquiry into all the points of the case, to which I have alluded ; and I confidently trust their report will be satisfactory—that there will be no point unknown to either Parliament or the country—and that Parliament and Government will therefore be in a situa tion to judge what is the course which will be most advisable for them to pursue, and which will be most conducive to the prevention of a similar crime, and the preservation of the public credit.—(Hear.) • Mr. KEMBLE said that having been requested at the commencement of the Session by the holders of Ex chequer bills, to preient a petition to the House on ,pheir behalf, and having found by the rules of the House that it was impossible that he could present that petition without the recom mendation of Government, he had waited most anxiously till the Right. Hon. Gentleman had made his statement. With the greater part of what the Right Hon. Gentleman had said he (Mr. K.) fully con curred. That the subject was one of great importance 'there could be no doubt, and he should not have risen to make any observations had it not been for something like a reflection which had been cast by the Chancellor of the Exchequer upon the holders of those Bills. He (Mr. K.) would venture to say on their behalf that some of the holders of these Exchequer bills would be found among the most respectable and honourable men that thiS great metropolis could produce ; and he only hoped the House would suspend their opinion on the transaction under discussion till that full inquiry which the Right Honourable Gentlemen pro posed had taken place. 'He (Mr. K.) had been made ac quainted with the circumstances attending that transaction, but it would be unjust to the parties themselves to enter further into the discussion of them at present. He could only say if the Right Hon. Gentleman gave the consent of the Government to having that petition to which he alluded presented, it would be seen that the course intended to be pursued by the Right Honour able Gentleman was just such a one as the holders of those bills would require. He was not at liberty exactly to read the prayer of the pe tition, but he might be allowed to read what was the conclusion of that petition. From it the House would see that the holders of the bills in question demanded nothing more than a strict and rigid inquiry into this affair—an inquiry which was due both to themselves and to the public at large. The petitioners went on to say, each for himself, that their conduct in the receipt of those Exchequer bills, and the advances they had made on their security, had been an honest bona fide proceeding, perfectly regular, and in the ordinary course of business ; and therefore they solicited from that Hon. House, through such means - as its wisdom might suggest, • a most scrupulous and effective investigation into all the circumstances of the case, so far as they were concerned , and they were willing, to state all they knew . about it on oath, and to produce all books, papers, and writings, connected with it in their possession ; for they made this appeal to the Hon. House confident that the result would fully satisfy the House that the conduct of the petitioners in the receipt of such bills, had been honourable, regular, and unexceptionable in every respect.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. K.) confidently believed that the gentlemen who signed that petition had nothing to keep in the back ground.—(Hear, hear.) They desired and expected . a rigid examination, such in fact as the Chancellor of the Exchequer proposed.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. K.) would not now enter into details as the House was not in possession of materials for discussion ;. he would content himself with merely remarking that the speech of the Right Honourable Gentleman showed that an inquiry was demanded. not only for the sake of the public, but that it would be unjust to the holders of the bills if it were refused ; con sidering, moreover that those frauds had been committed by persons in the employment of the Go vernment. He had now but to notice the amount of interest charged on those Bills. It would appear that the interest charged by the lenders was no more than according to the money rate at the time the advance was made ; and he would remind the House, that the great corpora tion of the Bank of England, four times a year, advertised to lend money, for a limited pe period, at five per cent. on Exchequer bills. .The petitioners should not be blamed for doing what the Bank of England did ; and if they had in any instance taken higher interest 'than five per cent., he would remind th e H ouse t h at t h ey had one so under the sanction of the. Legislature, which had re laxed the usury laws for the benefit of trade.—(Cheers.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER assured the House, in explanation, that the condemnatory re marks lie had made referred to certain persons of whom lie had received information ; but he never meant that a whole body of merchants were guilty of participating in the fraud.'—(Hear, hear.) He should be very sorry if such an imputation should be attributed to hint when he meant quite otherwise.—(Hear.) Mr. LEADER had one or two observations to make on what had been said by the Chancellor of the Exche quer and the Hon. Gentleman. The Right Hon. Gen tleman forgot that there were two questions of careless ness, one on the part of the holders of the Exchequer bills, another on the part of the Exehequer bill-office. He would admit to the Hon. Member for Surrey, that many such as he represented had claims for compensa tion ; but he (Mr. L.) had the a u th or ity of a banker, a Member of that House, for stating that, long before the discovery of the fraud took place, there had been rumours in the City that something was wrong in the Exchequer bills. He had told him (Mr. Leader) that he himself had had a narrow escape, and he had also authorised him to state the circumstances, but requested that his name might not be mentioned. As that Gentleman was a Member of that House, he could contradict him (Mr. Leader) - if he stated anything incorrectly.—(Great laughter.) That Gentleman had stated to him (Mr Leader) that shortly before the discovery that the Exchequer bill fraud had taken place, a person had come to him and said that he wanted a loan of 66,000/., or any part of 60,0001. on a deposit of Exchequer bills. Exchequer bills were, at that time, at a premium of from 12s. to 15s. The person wanting that loan offered six per cent. interest for the money—money at the time being easily procured on good security, such as Exchequer Bills for four per cent. The banker having considered that subject, thought there was something about the transaction that he did not like, and told the person on making the application that if he was in want of money he had better sell the bills than borrow money on them at such a rate of interest. The same person, on the reference of the banker, after wards went to one of the greatest capitalists in London, and made the same proposal ; the answer of the capi talist was the same as that of the banker had been : " You cannot afford to give such an . amount of interest; if you want money so very badly as you repre sent yourself to do, you had much better sell the bills." Now, he (Mr. Leader thought, that when persons hold ing forged Exchequer bills could be proved to have received them under such circumstances, they could have no claim whatever for compensation— (Hear, hear, hear)—for whatever might have been the amount of carelessness of parties connected with the Exchequer Bill-office, they could not excuse the gross carelessness of parties receiving Exchequer bills under such circumstances. And while the Chancellor of the Exchequer had been properly severe on those who had taken Exchequer bills under suspicious circumstances, the Right Hon. Gentleman had not been sufficiently se vere on the carelessness exhibited at the Exchequer Bill office. He (Mr. Leader) thought tkat from the docu ments - before the House, from the letter of the Comp troller-General, and likewise from the Report of the Commissioners, it appeared that the country had a very fair subject of complaint against the Exchequer Bill-office.-- (Hear, hear, • hear.) He wished to ask. the Chancellor of the Exchequer if the statement which he (Mr. Leader) was about to make, was correct or not.—(Hear.) He (Mr. Leader) had. been informed that at the time when the Exchequer Bill-office was remodelled, a person acquainted with that department had called the attention of the persons in authority to the fact that Mr. Beaumont Smith was possessed of great power, and that there was no check whatever upon him, his being the only depart ment in the office on which there was no check. That representation had been made to the persons in authority! He believed that the present Comptroller-General was at; the time Chancellor of the Exchequer.—(No, no.) At any rate, the representation had been made at the time the Comptroller-General was connected with the Treasury, and it was certain that that recommendation had not been attended to, because they knew that Mr. Beaumont Smith had retained that power, which he had so monstrously abused. It 'was not necessary for him to allude to other marks of carelessness in that office, for these would no doubt come under the attention of the Commission, But he had only wished to call the attention of the Chancellor of the _ Exchequer to the circumstance which he had mentioned ; because a feeling had gone abroad that there was so much carelessness in the Exchequer, that those persons who had advanced money on fair interest upon those bills were entitled to compensation. He un derstood that the stamped paper was under the unchecked control of the same person (B. Smith), whereas in the Bank of England, the paper which was to be used for notes, was guarded as care fully, as it was after it had received the signatures. Mr. BLEWITT was understood to say, that as the House seemed to acquiesce in the course proposed by the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, he would not oppose it: But on looking over . the Report which he held in his hand, he was not sure that it was quite clear that any forgery had been committed. For it appeared to him that Mr. Beaumont Smith had every opportunity of getting_ the signatures, without having recourse to forgery.—(Hear, hear.) With that exception, he concurred in the motion. Sir R. INGLIS concurred with the Hon. Gentleman who had just addressed the House, that the motion before the House begged the question, which ought principally to be the object of inquiry— that was whether the bills were or were not forged. He should not have troubled the House, but that his Right Honourable Friend in some way prejudiced, the case of those who were bona fide holders.—(Hear, hear.) He came into the House without having made up his mind, and deter mined to reserve his judgment until he should have learnt what course the Government meant to take. But his Right Hon. Friend had drawn an analogy, which he (Sir R. Inglis) could not agree to, although it had received the sanction of a high legal authority. It was that the holders of these bills had no more right to compensation than the holders of forged bank notes. The Right Hon. Gentleman would not deny that the bills which formed the subject of his motion issued from a Government de partment. Whether they issued from the left hand door or from the right hand door did not matter much, but that they issued ftom a Government department was un questionable, and the distinction in the point of analogy between a note of the Bank of England and one of those bills was, that in the latter case the unfunded bill had been previously issued from'a Government departmcnt.— (Cries of "No.") He understood these bills were perfected by the Government in every respect, except in the sig nature of the Comptroller-General ; that the paper was Government paper ; that the seal was the Government seal ; and that the officer who issued it was a Go vernment officer.—(Cries of " No, no.") But that would be a matter of inquiry. —(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) His argument proceeded on the assumption that with the single exception of the' signature the -bills in every other respect belonged to the Government, and that whether they issued from the office of the Exchequer or the Exchequer Bill-office, in either case the bills, the subject of this motion, were bona fide issued from a Government department, and that being the case he thought his Right Hon. Friend prejudiced the case by drawing an analogy between the holder of a note and the holder of one of these bills. He thought, until he was contradicted, that the Exchequer bills, whether issued fraudulently and by night, or honestly and in the open face of day, had issued from a Government depart ment, and that being so that they were still beau fide. With that observation he would not interpose any other delay. Mr. F. T. BARING said he would trouble the House with a few words, and he could not but express his con currence with what had fallen from the Right Hon. Gen tleman opposite as to the propriety of instituting an in quiry, and sifting the subject by a free and complete in vestigation. —(Hear, hear.) He fully concurred with him as to the necessity of a Commission of Inquiry.—. (Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman had stated that it was impossible for a Government not to be sub ject to suspicion, but whether they were or not, it would be impossible to disabuse the minds of the public upon the subject, who believed that certain parties would be screened if an inquiry were not instituted by Mtmbers of that House. He need not add a single word more, ex cept as to an observation made by the Hon. Member for Westminster. He had stated that a communication was made to the Treasury at the time the arrangement of the Exchequer was made, with respect to Mr. Beaumont Smith, and the power he possessed. He (Mr. Baring) was one of the Commission f conducti ig that business ; but after the Bill passed, most, he might say the whole, of the carrying the Bill into effect devolved upon him, he being then Secretary of the Treasury, and this was the first the had had the slightest inti ma ti on o f t h e kind. Height add, that it was not till he saw in the newspapers the intelligence ,that the Government was taking proper measures for pursuing the inquiry, that a hint of the kind had reached him as to the fraud that had been carrying on. With regard to Mr. Beaumont Smith, and the arrangement made for the selection of the officer 3, it should be stated that no recommendation for any officer, from the Chief Clerk of the Exchequer down to the lowest in the office, zas ever attended to, unl ess it came from the heads oftfit department, and every en deavour was made by inquiries into their character, to select the best officers. No application or recommend ation was ever attended to except those from the proper department and the, heads of the office. Unfortunately this was an instance proving .that the greatest care did not always secure a good public servant, for if there was any testimony of character in favour of one person more strong than another, it was in favour of Mr. Beaumont Smith. He believed he should do better in following the course of the Right Hon. Gentleman and not go into any discussion as to whether, as had been re marked by the Hon. Member tor the University of Ox ford, the Exchequer bills came out of one door or an other. They would see the expediency of waiting till they were in possession of the whole facts of the case. He entirely concurred in the course taken by the Right Hon. Gentleman. Mr. LEADER, in explanation, said that with respect to the necessity of additional checks in Mr. Beaumont Smith's department, the evidence given before the COm missioners proved that there was no check over him, and that the Government might have had additional checks if they liked. Colonel SIBTHORP approved of the motion of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, which he hoped would elicit the truth upon the impor tant question under the consideration of the House. As the Right Hon. Gentleman had made such a motion he (Colonel Sibthorp) could not support the proposal of the Hon: Member for London as he should otherwise have done. (The Hon. and Gallant Member then proceeded to read several documents, for the purpose of shoWing that Lord Monteagle had discharged his duties as Comptroller of the Exchequer with great carelessness.) He trusted that, in the investigation which was to take place, there would be the strictest impartiality, that, when the result was made known, the public might see— he would not say who was the greater rogue—but who was behind the curtain.—(Hear, hear.) Me would, when the result of that investigation was submitted to the House, closely and minutely weight every circumstance, and express his opinion on the subject. Mr. RICARDO expressed a hope that there would be no unnecessary delay in bringing in the Bill. . • Mr. WAKLEY said as he had not been in the HOuse when the Right-Hon. Gentleman introduced the discus sion, he would be glad to know whether the Commission was to extend its inquiry into all the circumstances:un der which the bills were issued, or whether it w 4 to extend it merely to the manner in which the holders be came possessed of them. If the inquiry was to be re stricted to the last point, he did not believe that the ' üb f lic would be s a ti s fi e d . —(Hear, hear.) His own op ion was that the p eop l e of this country were q uite wi i ling that Parliam ent s h ould vote remuneration to the (bona fide holders of those bills. He thought the people of this country felt that the character of the Legislature would suffer, if it allowed any party to be at a loss in con- ' sequence of the gross mismanagement which had oc curred in this department of the Government.—(Hear.) Whilst, however, the public were willing that the :; bona fide holders should be paid the amount which they had advanced upon the bills, he thought they were at the same time justified in insisting that the most scrutinising . '4 and searching investigation should. be instituted, as to the manner in which those bills had been issued from the ; Exchequer office or elsewhere.—(Hear, hear.) It was not known where they came from, and the public wanted to know from what office they came ; and if it was proved to be the consequence of mismanagement on the part of the Government that; those bills had been issued, from all be heard, from different quarters, the public were quite prepared that the bona fide holders should not suffer. Now they had an illustration of what was meant 410, ; 21 responsibility, a word often used in that House. Tiler : 4 heard that this or that wa s d one un d er th e res ponsibility of the Government. These bills had, it appeared, been ji issued from the Exchequer-office, therefore it was under s f the responsibility of the Government. He wanted to s f know what that- responsibility was, and who were the persons that would suffer. He was not desirous to in' crease their mental suffering, but he did not like the pockets of the people to suffer for their neglect. There fore, if. a course of neglect in the -Exchequer-office bad caused this fraud, he was anxious to know the result of the issue of these bills, and who would escape, and on whom the responsibility would fall. He hoped in future less respect would be paid to the declarations made i° that House by the Government. Mr. J. S. WORTLEY, who was at first inaudible in, -,; the gallery, was understood to say that Government had directed their attention to the mode in which these Ex" chequer bills had been issued, and the nature of the ,; fraud committed. He thought a few words were due clue from his Right Hon. Friend,. in order to allay the apprehensions of the public. He thought it would be well if his Right Hon. Friend would explain the steps taken in order to verify the authenticity of those bib s which were actually in circulation. They knew per fectly well that certain steps had been taken, and he ap prehended it would give additional confidence, if it were „- shown that means existed at the time, of establishing the authenticity of the bills in circulation. It appeared to - him that some notice should be taken of another subject, which had exposed the Government to great obloquy -- . he alluded to the proceedings in the late Exchequer bills transactions, and the examination of the fictitious bills (as we understood). No doubt his Right Hon. Friends had given reasons, satisfactory to the House, - for taking ;: the course they did; but they also kneW that considerable blame was thrown on the Government by persons in Vs", session. of the bills, and who felt themselves aggrieved at the course pursued by the Government. He had 0 0 wish further to detain the House on the subject. R e concurred in all the observations hitherto made, and 1 1 thought the course adopted by his Right Hon. Friona was likely to produce satisfactory result's. Sir R. PEEL rose to make one remark relative to wha t had fallen from the Hon. Gentleman, the Member for Finsbury. He said the public were quite prepared to grant full compensation to the bona fide holders. li e (Sir R. Peel) hoped the House would establish no prin ciple whatever on the subject—(Hear, hear)—as it wa s desirable that they should have a full and searching quiry into all the circumstances on the subject. principle ought to be established until they had all the facts of the case before them. His Hon. Friend said that the holders of Exchequer bills could be charged wit h gross negligence; and he said, at the same time, that • there might be cases where there might have been actu al criminality, and that the House ought to establish the facts by making inquiries. The Hon. Member for Fiur bary asked if the inquiry would be complete. He ( 6 R. Peel) apprehended, that the Commissioner s appointe d would have full. power to protect the Crown, as well 6.9 guard the interests of individuals, and the power of call ing for persons ' papers, and pecords, and of aste r ' taming the exact facts of the matter.—(Hear.) He really thought it would.not be expedient to enter into furthe r argument on the subject as to the manner in which they could ascertain the bills to be genuine. Neithe r was it necessary to go through the exact mode in whit'," the inquiry would be performed. He believed the pow' lie were quite satisfied that the investigation was 11.3 effectual one. He did hope that the House would studi ously avoid giving any opinion on the subject of o n t l , pensation ; that was a question that must come fee); under their consideration a t a fut u re d a t e ; he' thpugl i , they should also abstain from l a yi ng d own an y principl e till they were in possession of the whole of the facts. Dr. BOWRING thought the' course that had been pursued by the Government was much to be commended'* and bsgged to express a hope that, the Commiss ion would sit immediately, and co me t o a decision as q uickly as possible, Mr. E. TURNER wished to know what steps they had been taking to ascertain w h a t bill s were f o rged an t what not, because it might be—he did not say th tl such was the case—that Rapallo had t a ken off great - quantities of those bills. He thought it m ost exped . l that the Commission should come to their decision !e soon as possible. That decision might be—though ! It s did not expect it—that the whole of the forged b i l l s should be paid ;-- and if such was the case, some HO ought to be assigned in which parties should coule in and claim payment after the Commission had com e to their decision. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER saidthat . in answer to the question of the Hon. Member for tilt, West Riding of Yorkshire (Mr. Wortley), who wished to know why forged bills, when presented at the Exche-, quer were impounded, he could only state that it _N001,,1 thought most expedi en t no t t o l e t suc h a n umber of th bills circulate a mongs t t h e pu bli c an d cre ate confusion s , and having been informed, by the best legal advice that he could procure, that he was justified in impoundi n g those bills, he imm e di ate l y gave directions to im ponn them all and retain them, but giving notice at th e -sat 9e , time to the individuals who had p ossess i on o f them, tilt'''. if they required them for the purpose of p rosecu ting t"‘ ) ends of justice, either prosecuting the individuals free() whom they received them, or any oth er p e rsons w n might be liable to such prosecutions, they could have 'l c ' cess to those bills. The prcof of having given such or ders was, that several parties having taken out soil of those bills for the purpose of obt a i n i ng the' ends ° justice, had, by their means, recovered their nw ne " , from the party from whom they had received the bills, and they afterwards returned them to the E x cheque r where they now were. With respect t o the questi on put by the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, he seem? 1 entirely to have misunderstood the object of the B 1 proposed to be brought in. Th e H on . Gentlenian sup" posed that the Commissioners would recommaid whole of the bills to be paid. Now payment of the was not a question to be referred to the Commission ers ' They were to investigate the ci rcumstances o f t h e matte and report the whole for the information of that Ham e but the question of pay men t was b y no means t o con' e under their consideration. ~„( 1 Mr. BLEWITT s a id t h e Ri g h t Hon. Gentleman":o not answered his ques ti on a b out the word f or gers' being inserted in the Right lion. Gentleman's motion. 5 The CHANCELLOR of th e EXCHEQUER wil j perfectly satisfied that no bills were issued but forgc. , ones. When the Bill w hi c h h e ( t h e Ch ance ll or o f the }-;:v chequer) proposed to lay on the table of that House eslr in, if the H on . G en tl eman t h oug h t i t necessary to make any alteration in the matter to which he referred, then could be no difficulty in making such alteration. Sir R. H. INGLIS suggested that the word " is sue should be added before the word " receipt." The SPEAKER having put the question, Mr. BLEWITT gave notice that when the Righ t , Hon. Gentleman's Bill was br,ught in he would n'o'd the omission of the word " forged" before the u'l lf " Bills." Mr. KEMBLE thought that he could state certain facts which came to his knowledge,' which would sh e that it would be much better th a t th e wor d " repu diate' should be inserted instead of the word " forged." ht The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thou on it would be the better way to postpone the discussil,he these points at present. It was better that the title of , Bill should remain as it now sto o d. Wh en it w as int r° l duced the matter co u ld b e di scusse d ; an d a f terw ard e t it seemed necessary, the title could be altered. But he he did not wish to trespass on the time of the Hous e ' t he thought he could give good reasons to show why word `'repudiated" was not the best term to be iaserte Mr. :HAWES supported the suggestion. - ~v n ot The CHANCELLOR of th e EXCHEQUER dit: n think that the adoption of th e ph rase a ll ege d to be f° 4el be t would be an improvement, for many real Bills migib t o a alleged to be forged. Let hi m b r i ng i n t h e Bill, ho t they might consider the title after war d s . At prese e n otov i would adhere to his own title, b u t as soon as it Ivo . ' to be wrong he should willingly alter it. to b e The motion was agreed to, and Bill ordered brought in. RAILWAYS IN' IRELAND. Mr. FRENCH rose t o move t h e following resnl°l'llt tion :—" That this Hous e d o reso l ve I tself i n to a Celli teeorfetshe whole Hous e , f or t h e purpose of prepa ring . dd s to her M a j es ty, pray i ng that she would be f a r a - A c li ciously pl ease d to recommend to Parliament, that to measures shall be taken as may appear • most lik!lnYto, secure to Ireland the advantages of railway conlin" tion." He had more than once expressed his c onvie t , i i , that f unless the Government undertook the constill e ,: t h! o railways in Ireland, that country would remain w „. 0 1 out those great advantages ; and the opinion of s i e v s - vo s eminent practical men, whom he had consulted, f • o p, that the Government ought to take up the que s % l The question narrowed itself to this considerittw Would they refuse to so large A portion of the enipii.t'; as Ireland the power of raising sufficient funds ' ri co own credit, to develope its resources by the introtin e r , l o t of railroads? He would prove there was no hope eft of having railways in Ireland, except the Government 1 0 1 fOrward to lend them assistance. Up to 1838 there _ e . been no less than 112 private Acts passed for the ° t he struction of railways in England and Wales ; 21 fit f r construction of railways in Scotland ; and only ei,l7 lll m il the construction of railways in Ireland. Bu t t he was not even so well off as might be imagined frosetfive inspection of these figures ; for out of eight Bill 9 ti t ; had remained unacted on up to the present Inn,lnetseee and while the whole of England and Scotland ban miles traversed by . railways, in Ireland, a line of seven .00 from Belfast to Lurgan, and another of six miles, r 11 ise had been Dublin to Kablei ngstown,to a wccomplish. ere all that Whether eaterPloo i that the report of the Railway Commissioners ha i t, ti or derrated the returns that were likely to be made ` ere capital invested in railways, or that capitalis through• i deterred from embarking in such speculation s, ignorance of the intentions of the Government , he Iv ortu not stop to inquire ; but he wo u ld take that opp t he of stating, that the returns of the profits on_ re ,t Dublin and Kingstown railway, showed that an int` e d. of . 8 per cent. had been realized on the capital inves t b y He would now briefly consider what had been do ne the late Government in relation to this sii.bi ect -• The 1836 they had issued the Railway Commissioners were men of the highest character a„,(1.. the greatest scientific attainments. They were, Z r. Drummond, Dr. Barlow, Sir John Burgoyne , _tt A ilu the ir Griffiths. On the 11th of March, 1837, they I n ' e d c ue first report, which was very brief, but containe Commission.an , of -