The Sun. — London, England, 1824-03-09 00:00:00

-As he understood that it was wished that the discussion on this important question should be postponed to a later period of the evetong, he would only say at present, that there was a very material difference between this petition and others which had been 'presented on the same enbject. Former petitions were freeet the master silk-manufacturers, who had embarked their capital in the trade, and who were naturally afraid that the operation of the proposed measures would he the ruin of their capital. The petitioners now before the House were men whose daily bread depended neon their daily labour, and who corn .plaiaetYthat the effect of the intended measure would be to de prive' them of their only means of subsistence. The Maine answer which had been given to the prayer of the master-manu facturors would not do to the present petitioners. It might be said to the masters, that though- the proposed measure was one which might produce temporary inconvenience to them, yet that ultipiately it would tend to their gr at benefit ; but how Pettld this sort of argument answer the prayer of the workmen, who, even supposing that a future benefit would accrue to the 'trade, would, in the interim,- be reduced to starvation by the loss of their only means of subsistence. He would say no more at present, but move that the petition be brought up. Mr. ELLICE said that there were more than 20 other Peti tions in his possession, and those of other Members, to be pre sented On the same subject from the operative wearers. The Petition was now read, and was to [Wallowing:effect:— , " We e the journeymen silk-weaveri of London, having learnt with the greatest dismay and alarm, that the Right Hon. the • Chancellor of the Exchequer has proposed to your Honourable Houle.the .repeal of thole prohibitory laws regarding the hu kortation into this country of foreign wrought silks your Petitioners, do most humbly and earnestly entreat of your Honourable House, to - seriously pause before it agrees to a measure that - will, in our opinion, totally annihilate. that ma nufacture, by.which we from our infancy have been taught maintainokselves and families as useful members of society, by engrotising Our chief attention to bring to that- vast• perfec :Ai= the silk Manufacture of. this kingdom, which,-ist. this pre sent period, it hai arrived to, and which we are tea Ching our children,, apprentices, &c., who with us (should the . 'above dreaded measure be adopted by your Honourable House) will soon be reduced to the worst of all miseries—namely, pau perism and ,ataryation e with all their accompanying horrors; therefore we solem n l y an d ser i ous l y h ope that you will, by re jecting the propoeed measure, chew to your Petitioners that you will not suffer to be sacrificed the peace, happiness, and only comforts of many th ousan d s o f your h um bl e and loyal Petitioners, the journeymen silt-weavers of London, who, as in duty bound, will ever pray." The Petition was ordered to be printed. Colonel TRENCH presented a Petition from Wiebcch, in _favour of the Bill f or th e R ecover y o f S ma ll D e b t s.—Ordered to be printed. • • Inquire if the reduction proposed would be of any real value to the grower; and he would fairly state that be did not think it would. It would amount to a fraction more than one halfpenny in the pound of sugar, which all would be ready to admit would not he likely to produce any great increase in the consumption likely to benefit the grower. • Neither could it well be said that there was an undereconsumption in the country when coinn pared e ith the population ; for he believed the consumption of this country was greater for its population than that of any other country with the same extent of population in the worlin The consumption of France did not shew for the same popula tion more than 1-4th the quantity. He concluded, therefore, that no material advantage could be given to this interest by the proposed Amendment of the Hon. Member for Aberdeen. He thought, however, that other means might be found to give re lief, which should not be to ale detriment of any other interest, but on the contrary. He alluded to the present state of the price of barley, which had reached that height which gave a near prospect of the introduction of foreign barley. He be lieved the price was close upon that which would open the ports to that article. In such a sate of things, then, he put it to the Country Gentlemen whether, in consideration of their own interests, they would not be doing a gracious act to a neat suffering interest, if they consented to tile use of sugar in distilleries instead of barley.—(Hear, hear !)—By that means a great service would be done in the West India - interest, - and a great evil avoided to the corn grower by avoiding the open ing of the ports. The distilleries he believed, were now in full operation, which - would be over in six weeks or two months, so that no time was to be lost. Such a course would be a great boon to the West India agents, although he belitved they had now no great stock of sugar on hand. •He trusted that his Ma. jetty's Governmentwould not think such a proposition alto gether unworthy of their consideration. Mr. II USKISSON said, he was glad the Hon. Member for Taunton had stated to -the House his view of the proposition of the Hon. Member for Aberdeen. That Hon. Member rest. ed his motion on some observations relative to tobacco, which had fallen from the Hon. Member who had presented a pe tition on that subject. Now the observation about tobacco related to the great extent to which smuggling was carried upon that article, whereas the Hon. Member for Aberdeen (Mr. Hume) told them that there was no smuggling in sugar, thus destroying the analogy at once. If again he rested much upon the argument that the high duty on wine-had prevented a greater consumption, it would not serve him upon the pre sent occasion ; for there had . been no such fall off' in th e con . eumption of sugar, showing :cat the rate of duty impededethe - natural consomption: . Nothi ng h a d surprised him more than to hear the lion. Member state, that since 1814 there had been no increase of consumption. So far from that being the fact, he could confidently state, without the fear of contradic tion, that there was no one article upon which, judging by the revenue. returns of duty, so great an increase of consumption had taken place as in sugar since 1814. After Such an asser tion as the Hon. Member bad made the ground of his propOsal, it was impossible for him to resist going a little into detail on the subject. By a reference to papers, then, be found Oat the average consumption of the three years following 1314, lip to 1817, was 2,214,000 cwt. In 1322, the consumption Was 2,763,000 c wt., an i ncrease o f 548,000 cwt. in seven years, being equal to an increase of twenty per cent. in the consumption of sugar. The consumption for the year ending sth January last was 3,13000 cwt., an increase of 40 per cent. on what was consumed - only nine years before.—(Hear, hear!)—ale asked any one, then, in the face of those figures, to say that the duty on sugar was one which, as far as the consumer was concerned, was any impediment to consumption.—( Hear, hear!) The Hon. Member for Aberdeen had referred to the consump tion of Ireland for .the same purpose, as he had referred to that of England. Unfortunately the population of that country was notin that state of full employment which happily was now thetease with England. But it was ntit.the reduction of one half penny nn the pound of sugar that was likely to procure the Irish labourer that fiat employment which would make that dnrerence . in his subsistence which should increase his consumption of this article, which was not the first necessary, although be was will ing to rank it as the first luxury of lite. He would next exa mine the progressive state of tile supply of Sager, as compared with-the progressive increase of consumption. The supply on the old and.new Colonies since 1314 had increased to the amount of 629,000 .cwt. over the annual demand. The consumption of the present year, compared with that consumption and sup ply of 1314, left.but 1121,000 cwt. of over supply, which set off by the increased produce made an increase of consuniptitm over supply of 300,000 cwt. He looked at this stat e o f things with the most confident hopes of a speedy termination of those evils under which the West India Interest had been so long labouring. He looked at this progressive increase as a near approach to that state, when the supply would not ex ceed the demand of Great Britain, and the Colonists would be relieved from the evils of over supply. When he stated this as tha ground of hope, it was . not unsatisfactory to know that the consumption at present exceeded in the way he nad -stated by comparison only with former times, the law4est supply that had ever been made to this country in ooe year. That quantity was 3,785,000 cwt. The home consumption, for the present year, was as he had stated, 3,134, 1 ,009 cwt. bearing an excess for exportation of 655,000 cwt. Now the foreign exports for this year exceeded those of the last 130,090 cwt. Thus then they found the home consumption and foreign demand exceeding the greatest sup ly they ever had from the. West Indies at any one period. In the same way would it be found that the compensations re turned to the growers was increasing. 'Thus, in 1822, where the price was 31s. ; in 1823, it was 325. 10d. ; and ie. 1824, 345. 7id. This was the natural consequence of a decreasing stock and an increasing consumption of the. article. Nor was it likely_ that any increased production, either in the new or the old colonies, would take place. In the new, particularly at Demerara, which had contributed so much towards the glut of the market, he was told there was no possibility of an increase, owing to the difficulty of getting slaves, and other local impediments.— : He hoped therefore he had shewn that there was nothing so urgent in the state of the sugar i nterest to induce them to make this further reduction of the duty. The thriving state of that interest had surpassed, he confessed, even his expectations ; but this increased consumption was . a further proof of the state of increasing ease and the increasing comfort of the great body of the community; for if' distress and want of employment impossible they could go on consuming to so great an extent this article which, as he bad befisre ob served was no necessary. In 1791, the whole consumption of both this country and Ireland wasel,4oo,ooo cwt. In 1823, it had considerably more thah d ou bl ed, although the interval . heti' been a period of unexampled trouble. It could, there fere, be attributed to nothing but the increasing ease and comfort of the people; and as the Hon. Member tier Taunton had observed, there was no country in Europe with three times the population of this country that consumed an eqoal quan tify. With respect to the proposal to allow Distillers to sue sugar instead of barley, for his own part he must say he could hav e no o bj ection.—(llear, hear !)--fle should be glad to leave that proposal to the decision of the parties interested on either side without any obstruction on his part. But as a mere expedient at present, as there were only six weeks or two months left to complete the distilleries, he assured the Hon. Member that as such it would. not he practicable in de tail. The time required to prepare for such a change in the law would consume the whole six weeks, and inevi ta bl y prevent any benefit one way or t h e other from the proposed alteration. At the same time he had no hesitation in saying, that he thought the distiller ought in fairness to have his choice as long as foreign barley was excluded. It was-most true, as had been cursorily ob serve d, t h at the stock of sugar on hand was considerably decreased, but still he should be glad when the new sugars were about to come in, to see some row mode of getting rid of them. He hoped he had made a case for the Committee to reject the motion of the Hon. Member fo r Aberdeen. He hoped also that he had afforded the West Indians some expectation ofa gradual relief from the evils under which they had been labouring. They would derive that re lief from the same natural causes which had put an .end to the distress of other interests. It was owing to similar causes that the Cora Growers bad undergone so much suffering, and a Simi lar remedy from the natural working ofevents awaited the West Indians, as had taken them out of their difficulties. If parties brought more ofa commodity into the market than was wanted, and that commodity were grown in a variety of latitudes, they must expect to be obliged to sell the excess at reduced prices. With respect to what the Hon. Member for Aberdeen had said about the reduction of Rum, he confessed he was surprised when he knew how the West Indians had pressed that very reduction. He mast be allowed to suppose that the West Indians under stood their own concerns as well as the Hon. Member for A ber dcen. There was at present, he believed, a great stock of Rum with a limited demand, so that the reduction would prove of great advantage. As to their being shut out of Ireland, he woshi tell the . Hon. Member for Aberdeen, that the consul - tip. tion of Ireland, even when the duties were more equalized, never exceeded 40,001) gallons. The fact was, the native liquor would always h are t h e , a d vantage. To mit the prin ciple relative to wastage contended for by the Hon. Member, would be contrary to the very meaning of the existing law. The duty became due on its landing in the country, bat the bonding system allowed it to remain until the liquor was sold. The duty was then taken, and an allowance made for wastane ; anti any other plan would open a vast door to fraud and evasion. Under these circumstances he hoped the Committee would feel satisfied that there was no call for the amendment of the Hon. Member for Aberdeen ; and he begged them especially to bear in mind that everseshilling taken off was a diminution to the Revenue of 150,000/. a year. Mr. C. R. ELLIS observed, that nothing could be more tempting to the friends of an interest that had long been suf fering under the weight of distress than a proposal like that before the House for a diminution of the tax on one of the Sir. Al. W. RIDI,EY presented a petition' tom a Mr. - Robert Foster (we. think), statini , that the public buildings in London were much disfigured I.y smoke, and adding, that.he had discovered a method by which such injury might be pre vented: He prayed the House to take th e m a tt er into their conAideration.—Laid on the table. Mr. HUME presented a petition from the Working Hatters of Southwark and London, praying for the repeal of :the Com i%ination Laws.—Ordered to lie on the. table. Lord ALTIIORP postponed a notice of a motion of hie (rc specting an amnesty to Ribandmen Ireland) which stood for to-morrow, to Thursday. Mr. ESTCOURT presented a petition, (we did not hear from what place), praying for a diminution of tho dutieS on tobacco. Mr. BENETT.said a few words in favturrof the diminution. Sir JOHN NEWPORT supported the the petition, anti -observed that it appeared from the returns for Ireland, that -the quantity of tobacco consumed in that country on which ,duty was paid had diminished since the duty had been iney4ased. Mr. BRIGHT observed upon the impolicy of the high duties in this article of universal consumption, and contended that the effect of those duties was to encourage smuggling to a most injurious extent. He particularly called the attention of Ministers to this latter point ; and instanced, as an erzamplz of it, that in a smuggling cutter lately taken, IMO bag; of to bacco were found, and only 7.5 kegs of gin. He inli;rvtd th:.t -of all the duties paid by the people of this country, there were none which pressed so heavily upon the honest trader, and was so favourable to the smuggler, as that upon tobacco. The petition was then brought up and read, and ordered to `be J;rinted. Sir. ESTCOURT presented a.petition from the silk-throw. sters of Devizes, against the proposed alteration in the duties en silk.—Ordered to be printed. Mr. LI\DS:IY presented a petitio." from the licensed inn holders and victuallers in a town in Lancashire, praying for the repeal of the duty on their licenses.—Ordered to printed. chief articles of their production and sources of revenue.— The Chancellor of the Exchequer, however, had already consented to grant them a diminution of the duty on rum, and also a beneficial change in the mode of collecting that duty, which had been considered by persons possess ing practical knowledge, as more a d vantageous to t h e in terests of th e West Indians than a reduction of the duty on Sugar. The quhation, then, was • not whether a reduction of the Sugar Duty \vould or would not be beneficial, but whether it would be more beneficial than the other con - cessions offered by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. In his opinion, after a careful exam i na ti on o f t h e quest i on, he concluded hat the - balance of advantage preponderated with thea - Chancellor of the Exchequer's plan. If he were asked whether it would not be better to have the two, be should say, that if the measure of. their distress were m be the measure of their claim, they certainly would be entitled to it. But that was not the measure to be used on such an occasion, for their claim must be regulated and moderated by what others sought and obtained. Neither was it in the nature of the West In dians to put forth claires beyond reason. During the whole of the long period of distress through which the West Indians had gone, they had never shown any unreasonable impatience. They had not abstained from putting forth their claims to as sistence; but never to the detriment of other interests. It would, therefore, be inconsistent with their former conduct now to deMand the reductions spoken of, in both sugar and rum. As to any project of the kind mentioned, respecting the distil ling of s pi r i ts f rom rum , that he thought might reasonably be entertained ; and he most sincerely hoped the Chancellor of the Exchequer would not be impeded from adopting a course so valuable to two great interests, he meant the West Indians and the Corn Growers, by the consideration of any practical or technical difficulties. He was sorry i t was not in his -ower to take the same. - flattering view of the future prospects of the West Indians as his Right .lionourrible Friend had done. He was afraid the increase in the consumption of sugar could not be fairly attributed -to so permanent a cause as increased ease of the people ;.- but that it rather proceeded front a temporary cause, such as the reduction of taxation—a cause which they could not expect to recur. H e could not, therefore, tbr these reasons, vote for the amendment of the lion. Member for Aberdeen. Mr. ELLICE said that lie came into the House with the full intent of supporting the motion of his Hon. Friend behind hint (Mr. Hume); but if his Majesty's Government would give them any hope that they would take the suggestion of the Hon. Member for Taunton into consideration, lie did no doubt his Honourable Friend would withdraw his motion. He did not ask for a pledge, but merely so much as would give them reason to hope that his Majesty s Government would admit the proposition to their serious consideration. He confessed he did not feel those flattering hopes from the improvement of the West India interest which the Right Honourable Gentleman seemed to entertain. He had been at a loss to understand his statistical statements, which lie thought the Right Honour able Gentleman-would do well to lay on the table and have printed. They would have the effect of making the subject well understoOd out of that House as well as in it, and of giving confidence where it was much wanted. . He found it difficult to persuade himself that the increased consumption which bad been shewn proceeded from any such permanent cause as it had been attributed to. He was alieiti it would be found, as well as every increase on excisable articles, to have proceeded from the remarkable cheapness of provisions last year. He believe-a, however, • his Majesty's Government required only to be shewn the way in what best concerned the interest of the West Indians; and he trusted with such feelings they would geva the suggest i on of the Hon. Member for 'Taunton (Mr. Baring) their best consideration. Mr. CALCRAFT wished to have some information which should enable him to decide upon the vote he should give. Ile saw not the slightest objection to permit the mixture of sugar with the distillation of barley. The p r i ce o f barley, he believed, wented but five pence of the price which would admit foreign grain. When that was admitt e d, he thou g h t t h e Distillers en titled to have their choice; and considering the st a t e o f t h e West India Colonies, lie had no objection to that choice being given them now.— (Hear, hear I)—ltrinit lie particularly wished to know was, whether on his side of the House they had rightly understood the Right lion. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Hut kisson) to say, that the demand for sugar was now greater than the supply ?—(No, no, from Mr. Iluekisaon.)—He (Mr. Cal craft) had certainly always understood the reverse to be the fact, sw2titotleoi r t t l f i ri e iisi t i l im u ng t i y ntd a o t , ba tl e ; l e di same but they had all understood the Riclit Hon. Gentleman to state the cane as tstp.ted He - had certainly come dawn to the house with an inclination to support the motion of his Hon Friend (Air. Hume); but the statements that he hal heard tirade, w6h he nim tohiwaiitcatrhte,ae increase a r o ° d f ps t e t consumption e (i e r d e e i le t 1 frao the evil was to create some new exceeded the demand, the contending about. If the supply only way to rent stimulus to consumption. 'ibis was enstwed. by the plan of the lion. Member - for Taunton• irie hoped, therefore, his lion. Friend (Mr. Hume) would withdraw his motion, and that his Ma k sty's Government would candidly cons id er whether sugar souls.' not be introduced into the distill er i es. Mr. 11 - CSKISSON exPlained the statement he had origi nally made to the The object of his statement was to she* that in 1814, °w 'ng to the i ncrease d p ro d uce o f th e Colonies, there was a co neiderable excess of s upply °vex consumption. H e ha(.s af terwards stated, th a t -between 1823 and 1824 the consomPlion had increased in a greater ratio than the supply, front which he derived hopes that the Consumption would in time become.fMal to the supply. The supply it was to be observed, was sill i n advance of the cons matron ; but of late the increase of stIPPaY °vet consumption had been gradually fbantied getting less. Thus he had • shewn • that in 1311 the increase of supply over consumption was 629,000 cwt. , and that in 182'J the increase of consumption ° y er and above that of 1814 was 921,000 e in crease us between the two periods cwt. shewing a relativ upon which he .had the exulting prospect he had in dulged in. By deducting' the inereasd proauce firm' the the difference mand of two periods, must Am the amount of consumption of the one, over and above the falling off in the other. His conclusion from the use he had made of this course was, that in two or three years there would be no surplus sup ply at all. With respect to the barley, all that lie could say was, that under the existin* state of the law, the proposed plan could not be made availaLle for the present season. B u t th e suggestion would not be lost, i f the House were of opinion it deserved attention. lhe last return of barley was 38a.,__ a price which he did not think aehrd e d much expectation of the importation of foreign barley before the end of the period for distillation. Mr. CA LCRA FT said a feW Words in explanation. Mr. BENETT thought that e e , harm could be d one t o agri culture, if su ga r were not used la distillery until barley had reached the price at which im p or tation would be a ll owe d. He wished to k now , f ro m the Right lion. . Gentleman opposite, whether, under the nern Y regulations, runt could tie used by the distiller to be converted into gin. If this were the case, distillation from barley would receive a great check. lILTSKISa'ON said, that to enable the rectifier to take such a course was a question of great difficulty. But he should think it most desirable in the present state of the West Indies, if practicable. Mr. BRIGHT said, that if the West Indians could not ob tain the benefit in question, without injury to other classes, they would rather submit to their present evils than derive that ad vantage.—( Hear!)—A t the same time he begged to observe that nothing would tend more to conciliate the distressed Nest In, dians, and make them more patient under suffering, than to find their case meet the consideration of that House. They antici pated great advantages from the diminution on the duty on rum, but greeter front the alteration In the mode of collecting it. He confessed he did not look so confidently to the prospects of the West Indian a s th e Ri g h t HO n. Gentleman. He thought they ought not to have been excluded from the markets of Ire land and Scotland. The reason whiskey was preferred to rum in these countries was because it seas cheaper. It had always been the policy of Government to push runt out of the marke in favour of British spirits. Mr. F. LEWIS observed, that the consumption of rum had been very inconsiderable in Scotl an d o f l ate ' years, and still less in Ireland. The whole duty of ss. fid. a gallon had ne ver been colle c t e d i n I re l an d , owing to the evasion of that duty which was so extensively practised. With regard to the scheme of relieving the West Indians by throwing barley out of uso, he never heard any more objectionable. He did not see that the weight of duty now complained of ought to be taken off the West India interest, and thrown on the Barley- grower of England. This he co ns id ere d wou ld b e the effect of the plan which had been suggested, and this he could not ap prove. Any weight of taxation from which the Colonial in terest might be relieved ought not to be thrown on any par ticular class, but ought rather to spread on the whole com munity. Mr. 11. SUMNER thought the course proposed to betaken by Ministers would afford material relief to the West India Planters, without injuring the agricultural interests of this country. He could not vote for the Amendment, and hoped it would be withdrawn. 111 r. ROBERTSON °Tared a few remarks on the proposed relief to the West India interest s which were not distmetly heard in the gallery. • Mr. MA N'iNltiwas of-opinion that it was fair-and proper to give an advantage to your own sugar merchant, rather than to the foreign corn grower. It was only p ro p ose d to a d m i t the West India Merchant after the English Farmer, and be fore the Foreigner. Ile therefore tho ug ht th e measure a good one. The Colonies were entitled to relief ; and though to his surprise their table was not covered with petitions from their inhabitants, their situation was such as demanded the most serious attention of Govermnent; and he hoped that every effort would be made to remove the pressure under which they lisped about that period ; and if the Chancellor of the Esche at present laboured. quer of that day had proposed to relieve the cotton-mal 11Ir. PLUMMER th oug h t our own P lanters ought to he facture from restrictions such as those which now clogged the._ encouraged rather th an th e F ore i gn C orn-growers, by sanc- silk trade, he might have objected that it was not a native Inan.ld tioning distill a ti on f rom _ sugar, w h en b ar l ey reached a certain facture, and that it would be impossible by any means to enable price. Sir I. COFFIN considered Ministers' to have a c t e d very li- f ore i gn markets ; he might have' prefer re d encoura ging t? , berally by the West India interest, an d s h ou ld t h ere f ore vote manufacture of we :l which was an article of our native growth' for their propositions. " and he might have appealed, in support of his argument, to the Mr. WHY.DIORE said, in consideration of the present state policy of our ancestors who compelled even the shrowd of tae of the 'West Indies, it w as n o t hi s i ntent i on to re d eem in this dead to be made of woollen. Fortunately for the woollen mann_ Session of Parliament the pl e d ge w hi c h h e h a d f ormerly given facture of this country it never laboured under the restriction: again to bring forward' the subject of the p r i va t e tra d e to Indi a. to which both the cotton and silk manufactures have been suldeede Ile must, however, remark, th e ev il s w hi c h h a d been predicted He begged the attention of the Committee to the progress wittcd` last year as the consequen ce o f p ersever i ng i n the present sys- had been made by the cotton manufacture, and from that they` tem had all been realized, and he th oug h t t h e present exclusion might infer the advantage likely to bederived to the silk manufar_ of the products of India might justly be complained of by the Cure f rom b e i ng p l ace d on a similar footing. It was perfectly nig,: natives of that country, that forty ye ar s ago woo ll en w a s the staple manufacture o f this Mr. HUME replied to the a rguments o f the preceding= country. By the Custom-house returns* appeared that in the Ye: speaker, and contended that the i ncrease d consumption of MO the whol e o f th e co t ton manu f acture of all kinds exported ~ sugar which hail been dwelt upon, was no more than the West amounted to 375,0001. In the year 1785, which was two yea rs 1 India interest had had a right to expect and he could not go after the return to a state of peace, when the country n o longer . the length which th e Ri g ht lion. Gentlem an had &nein anti- felt th e o pp ress i ve operat i on of the war, the whole export % cipating a further increas e . Th e G en tl eme n i n the Test India cotter' manufactures of a ll ki n d s amounted to no more th an trade ought to kn ow th e i r o wn interest best, but he could not 864,0001., while the amo u nt o f th e woo ll en manufacture ex help thinki ng th a t th ey l a b oure d un d er a d e l usion if they look- ported in the sameyear amounted, to n ear l y f our u nili ons ,heil ed for that inc rease d d eman d w hi c h t h e Ri g h t lion. Gentleman nearly five to one in favour of the na ti ve over t h e f o r e i gn rn • would encourage th em to ex p ec t. lie therefore felt that the material. -From that time to the present the increase in the eite view which he - had t a k en o f this subject was correct.. He port. of cotton .goods had been surprising. In the year 1822dd thought the West India interest entitled to that relief which he amounted to 27,337,000/., being more than forty times its had asked for them ; if they did not care to have it, still he amount forty years ago ; whereas the export of woollens in th't thought it ought to be claimed on the part of the country ; but same year was only six millions, being only.one-fourth of t" as he felt that he could not succeed against them and the Go- export of cotton goods. 71Iere. might be seen an i ns t anc e Of thevertirnent, vernnment, with per m i ss i on o f the House he would withdraw his advant ages o f f ree d om of trade, and of' the benefi c i a l operation motion, of institutions calculated to give a free direction to the emploY - Mr. CRAY GRANT said if the productions of the Right went of capital, and free scope to the industry of the . countath Hon. Gentleman should not be realised, it might be hoped that 1 He had only stated the growth of th e cotton manufacture. as r e " the lion. Membe r f or Ab er d een would give the Gentlemen gated to the exports, and the amounts he had giVen Were tak , ;'i connected with the West Indies, anoth er opportunity of ex- from the official returns, which the Chntrriwee were aware lth' i l' pressing their sentiments on this subject. Their vote on the rather higher than the actual value in the home market. li e present occasion was unquestionably not a little influenced by had however made inquiries, and according to the best infor what had fallen from the Right Hon. Gentleman, t motion he had b een a bl e to obtain,- he b e lieved h e was not o ver.' Mr. GORDON thou g ht it must a ppear extraordinary, not / stating it when he said.th a t the actual value of the. whole c otters only to the Hou se , b u t t o th e country, t h at the Gentlemen con- 1 manufacture of the country for exportation and for houte_con nected with the West Indies should rise, one after another, to smnption in the last ' year amounted to 32 millions. Th e declare against the proposition of the lion. Member for Aber- Hulse might ask how the increase. of the cottop manufactur e deen which had been brought forward for their relief. There applied in argument to the manufacture of silk. . lie believen , was me little secret understanding connected with this. lie ,he might st a t e , th a t t h e manufacture of cotton, produc i nt ; would state the f ac t. B y l aw a b ounty of 30e. was at preser t 1 thirty-two Millions, did not consume five millions of raw mad allowed on the exportation of refined sugars. This would ex- terlai ; the remainder. must therefore be made up of the pries Aire on the 4th July next, and he believed an intimation had of labour and the profit upon the capital employed. CBE been given that if th e W est I n di a interest supported the pre- would ask, 'whether, if the cotton manuf ac t u r e h a d remainedsent motion that la w wou ld not b e renewed.- Had his Hon. subje c t to restrictive laws such. as now operated upon the sil' Friend pressed his motion he (Mr. Gordon) would have 'tested manufacture the country would have been able to support thos e for it, and though it was for his interest to support the Bill for exertions which had enabled it to carry on the late war. It was renewing th e bounty of which he had spoken when it came only to the increased activity of its industry and trade that th e before the lio uss h e did not k now that he' should do so, as he country cou ld l oo k for any eilhethel. relief from taxation and fot thought. the renewal at vari ance w i t h t h e genera l system -on resources to carry on an y f u t ure war. The silk tr a d e a t present' I which Minist ers p ro f e s se d to act: Much had' been said of th e was suffering all th e ell:tete naturally p ro d uce d b y mono p o lf t kindness of th e G overnment towards - the ' West India Interest. 1 which was always chilling and benumbi n g i n its operetiops. VII He would say, that if th e y k new to w h om t h ey might to be 1 effect of prohibitory laws was always to destroy competition and grateful, they would see it was to his HM I Iron. Friend the em, to prevent imp rovement. N or were the evils of such a systera ber for Aberdeen. Il e h a d b r o ug h t t hi s s u bj ect forward year confined to the trade itself. Whet could be more odious 11 ! after year, and compell e d th a t at t en ti on to i t, which, but for principle than th e l aws w hi c h were necessary -to support "it? his exertions, it never would have receiv e d, What law could be soineongenial to the feelings of Englishmen The Amendment was then withdrawn, and the original Re-- as that which enabled a Custom-house officer td enter hie house, solution was agreed to. The House then resumed, the-Report or to detain his carriage if he were travelling, to search it for was ordered to be received tomorrow, and 'leave was obtained contraband articles ? etnd what could be less desirable titan the for the - Committee to sit again on Wednesday. . encouragement held opt to the violation of the laws. ? Thehigher On the motion of Mr. C. Www er, the Committee on the orders would have foreign silks if th e y could Usury Laws was postponed till F r id ay next. lower orders naturally would wrocure them get as them. long as they CUSTOMS — SILK TRADE. - cou ld fi nd purchasers. lie had beard it sa id i n a ll u sion tand the On the motion of Mr.littsxissow, the Ilouse resolved to the Game Laws, ~ if you will h ave game , you m ust itself into a Committee on the Customs A cts, to which Returns have. poachers ;" and so it was in this c ase —if th ey wo ald , of Duties had previously been preferred. have foreign silks, they must else lutve smuggler,. •It han . de c in ou t ri l t e r y l , a e w x s p a l a hi e n c e t d ing th t e he in) Right Hon. Friend, been stated by the manufacturers themselves, that tiny quail" the l%. . l C r i; ailnUcellrorioSfSgeNwsaxict'ettihuaetrtthwoiPtglihtihmaist perspicuity so peal- tity of prohibited goods could be had in town at a preadult' liarly his own, h a d, w h en h e brought forward his statement re- of 15 per cent. ; and yet the same persons, when they heard of n grounds of proposal to protect them by an d 7 C,.., VII rOrent duty of 30 per cent' porta. cried out that that was no protection. Two American Gentrch tion of s ilk, st ill, i n conseque n ce of the objections that had been men who were examined before theLords' Committee, on being raised b ot h i n an d ou t o f doors, .and of the great importance of ash ed what was the difference between silk goods of French me' la th t o i s v ec to lt e therat financesl' ep r o o l f ) o t s i e m the subject i tse lf, h e t rus ted, however unable to follow his Right nufacture and those of English manufacture, when brought too Hon. F r i en d i n c l ear ness of detail, that the House would in- competition in time markets, answered, that in som e f ew cases it' Bulge him w hile he. went into those statements connected with might b e 30 p er cent. ; on black silica in general it was a bout time subject. .To the general plan there w ere two kinds of objec. 20 per cent., and in ribbons 25 per cent. Mr. Hale, a silk-ma tions. The first were the objections of tho se w h o t h ought, that nufacturer, of Spi talfields, stated in his evidence 'before the Coln being in . situation to afibrd seine relief to time 'country it should inittee,• that " when he was in Paris, certain parties having. n° be effected by the. re moval of direct t axat i on. The other class of idea that he was a manufacturer, offered for a premium of front objectors were those who wished time laws affecting the silk trade L'i to 20 per cent to insure the delivery of manufactured silk 4 to remain as they were. With respect to - the first class of o b. t o any amount in any part cf London. " lie also added, that j ect i ons , it did appear to him that the course pursued by Go- many French goods found t h e i r way into this country; vernment was that most conducive to th e a d vancement cf the did not consider that an ev il, f or there was a disposition marry' various interests of the community... When it was felt, after the persons to prefer any thing that came from France ; and when close of the war,. that they were in a situation to ligheen the I a' French reticle found its way into England, the pattern I ve s kn . ' bUrthenS of the people, they were first bound to look to those' niedietely copi e d ; an d w h ere there awl one reel French article classes Vsho were more imm e d ia t e l y and more deeply affected I worn, there wer e a thousand Engl imitatiOns of by the duties on con su mpti on . I t was with this view th a t th e i p at t ern . `a It was," lie ish also said, w n o t uncommon for the a n Eng serve taxes on malt, leather, and salt were reduced, and though last, lish manufacturer to imitate a French article, and send it down not least in operation, that it was proposed to continue the to Brighton, where by means of fish-women ands mugglers large lottery no longer.—(Hear, hear !)—Last year a quantities weredispcsed of at a higher price as French g cliNi reduction took place in those direct taxes c o nsi derable gth than they would have fetched as English manufactures." Could . 1 middle and better classes. Having thus extended r e li e f t o it then be contended, when a profit could be derived from such a nearly the amount of seven millions by the repeal of those competition with French goods, which could be introduced in taxes, it might be asked why they did not proceed still further any quantity at a risk Of er cent. at evil could be in what appea re d t o many to b e the most desirable plan of re- feared from a removal of the ten prophibition, th and the substitution of lief, that was, by a further reduction of direct taxes. It was a protecting duty of 30 per cent. ? He had that morning held a said that nothing could be more easy than the adoption of such consultation with a deputation from the silk manufactuers of a plan, and certainly it could not b e pl easa nt to the feelings of Manchester, who stated th a t if a li tt l e time were given them to those whose duty it was to watch over time public int erests to complete their arrangements, they would not fear any com petie proceed upon principles that might appear incompatible with tion with France or any other country.—(liear, hear!)—He the wishes of the public. However, when his Majesty's 1111_ was aware that he should be told that the persons engaged ill nisters found that they were in a situation to remit something the trade .were after all the best judhes of their own interests more of the hurthens of the country, the question arose whether He felt the greatest defirence for the opinions of those who, they should not begin to act o n principles the justice and from their connection with any particular branch of trade, and. policy cf which wer e genera ll y admitted, and by so act i ng th e i r e xperien ce in it, were quaiitied to sp ea k o f t h at i n which give increased energy and effect to industry and comninerce— they were engaged; but he did not think it at all inconsistent The great alterations that were rapidly taking place in the ge- with a proper degreeof deference to their judgment in the matter neral colonial system of the world, and the new channels which which more particularly concerned them, to doubt w h et h er per- • ' were thereby opened fo r var i ous b ranches of trade, made it in- sons so situated were the best jud ges o f what wa s b est f or the cumbent upon the Government ofthis country t o consider whe- interests of the public in general. He had no doubt that what, they something might not b e d one to secure for it a fair share in he was about to propose would materially affect the interests or the markets that were thrown open to general competition. At some individuals ; brokers and- dealers in' silk for 'instance, this moment the Provinces of S out h America were - still' strug- I would be affected, an d dcubtlees would be 'much , moreinclined • filing; to secure their independence of time Mother Country, and I to support hint iii a p r op o s a l t o augment the prohibitory i n an u nsettled state as regar d e d their political condition ; but i ) support all cases where' 'any change was - we knew dolt they never could return to their thrmer state of introduced In the commercial regulations of the country , subjection; and when we look at the present condition of the there were interests which must be afflicted ; what was to t United States, though possibly the South American Provinces be considered therefore was the effect on the interests of the might not possess the same advantages, yet, considering time Public generally. He knew that great activity had been used state of the population, the climate, the products, and other na- in promoting a feeling on this subject ou t o f d oors, b y those w h o tura! advant ages w hi c h b e l onged to those provinces, it was im- derived an an a d vantage from time i llici t traffic in prohibited goods, - possible not to hope that under any system which promised them and • lie feared that when the prohibition was removed the fancy a fair opportunity and proper facilities for the dev e lope me nt of for partieular articles would be taken away. Those who were their resources, incalculabl e advantages might be denved from engaged in business with ladies' maids, and through them with an intercourse with them, which would increase with their grow- h i t. mistresses, formed, he was convinced, not time least import.. log wealth' an d prosperity. It wil l become the Government of ant part of the confederacy. It was contended • ended to all the peti this country, under all thes e circumstances, to inquire whether, lions on this subject, that more time at least ought to b e givep, there being but a very small amount of excess of revenue which to enable those in the trade to guard against the ill consequences it could remit consistently with the principles of finance which of a sudden change. Buttagainst delay there was this argument, had b een sanct i one d b y Parliament, and upon which tile. calcue that if the period of time alteration were postponed the consumer lations of his Right Hon,'Friend were founded, it was• worth would delay his purc'hases, in tile. hopes of makin g tha n with while to forego the advantages which might be derivethfrom the greater advantage at the expiration of the period. Th e de removal of the cheeks which fetiered an important branch of crease of sales which would thus - he occasioned would cheek trade, the the sake of a trifling remission of taxes. He must own the activity of the manufacturers, and throw a great number. ' that until it had been stated in that House that what he viewed of operative weavers out of employ. If it were proposed gra ss disadvantages under which the silk trade was labouring were dually to bring about the alteration, the effect would be the same. . not so considered by those who were concerned in that trade, Ile could assure the Committee-that his Majesty's Government and that those persons who were most• immediately interested had given their best consideration to time subject and the reet It of did not wish for any change in the laws affecting the trade, - he such consideration was, that they censidered it the wisest f or should gr a ve f e lt excee di ng l y surprised that any person engaged order toromove all disquietude from those who laboured tor t!:.:ir in that trade should not most anxiously have wished to be re- ' daily subsistence, as well as to render the remission of time thud • lieved from the shackles wherewith it was bound. He remora- las effectual . amid speedy as possible, that such remission sheu el bered that in the last Session of Perliarnent almeat all the pt... 1 take - place, n o t from time Pith of July n e xt, as was ori:t:ittttilr COn ''' sons engaged in th a t t ra d e came to the House, and petitioned e templated, but as early as the 2iith of the preen. t L i m h er .-- to be relieved from time restraints und er w hi c h they laboured. I (Hear, hear !) i'd By adopting this course his ajL,sty's ttAtn- - —The Right Honourable Gentleman then' read an extract ! anent conceived that they should, hi ts cave full predent . from a petition presented in the last Session ity the lion. Mem- i the . te stagnation of trade, and while they gave full employment to ber for the City of London (Mr. T.- Wilson) from the silk me- the labouring artisan, would be ails cling to the manufacturer a nufacturcrs of the City of London, stating that important as time . fresh stimnulus to extend his speculations. Another dif f iculty bad manufacture of silk was acknowledged to be, and greatly int- -I however suggested itself, of which he (Mr. Huskisson) felt time • proved as it then was, it was still greatly depressed, anti pre.. ' ; full force. 1 t had been represented that the measure of his Right vented by the existing laws from advancing to the height to 1 Hon. Friend would prove highly injurious to the capitalist who • which it might be carried ; and expressing their confidence that, I had a large stock - of the raw material on hand. His Right Hon. if the restrictions of which they complained wire removed, it 1 Friend had given that subject his fullest consideration ; a nd the might yet be placed in a s t a t e u l timate l y to tr i ump h over foreign resu l t was, that he conceived some arrangement might be made competition, and that silk, like cotton, might be rendered one which would prove satisfactory to the parties interested. The • of the staple manufectures of th e country.—(Hear, hear ! )—His 4 arrangemnent his Right Hon. Friend p ro p ose d was t h at t h ose Right Iron. Friend, th ere f ore , came to the House und e r th e I who h a d in their possesSioa any quantity of raw or thrown silk conviction that this trade was greatly depressed by the syste:.t i not in manufacture might deposit the same in warehouses, and under which the duti es were co ll ecte d, anci that it ought t o b e i receive a drawback upon the duty, whi c h d raw b ac k or returned entirely new re g u l a t e d. H e did n ot t hi n k t h at t h e manufacture 1 duty should be the difference between the proposed duty of 3d• of a raw materi a l import e d from a foreign country autject t o a ; per lb. w ith regar d to raw, and 7s. (id. per lb. with regard to heavy duty, carr i e d on at a l arge a d vance o f cap i tal, and subject I thrown silk, and that now paid.—(H ear , hear o.._Th e effect to a system of' regulations restricting the pri ce o f l a b o u r, was lof thi s arrangement would b e th a t those engaged in the throw- • one which could be carried on to advantage. 'The H on . i me 1 inf of silk would not have army motive the suspending their work, be e f or T aun t on (M r . Barin g ), i n spea ki ng of this subject,' had I wot'n they knew that they (yield have at army tim e a remission of sa id, that this was not a native manufacture, and therefore ' the duty ; and thus the trade would experience, as lie said before, ought not to be encouraged; intimating that manufactures, Ino stagnation or remission o f i ts wonte d activity. There was lik e f ru its, could only h e grown i ' particular places; and, in no intention it was true of remitting the deity on the manufac- ' the same breath, lie had informed them that in Taunton (th e tured article ; but titer it was not consid era bl e i n quant i ty, an d Borough which he represented), _the only manuf ac t ure carried a if the principle of tho” who argued for a remission of such on at present was that of silk, whereas thirty or forty years duty were admitted in the present instance, it would become a ago the only manufacture there was woollen, which had now m very inconvenient Precedent upon futur e occasions. There wholly disappeared. lie (Mr. IL) did not know who re. Woald be also a c?naider a bl e diffi cu l ty in ascertaining theamouet presented that respe c t a bl e Boroug h forty ye a rs ago i n that , , of duty that ought to be t a k en o f f i as in consequence of time House. It might be some le a di ng merchant, some friend of fr ee I stagnation of the trad e, or from titer causes, a considerable trade, some discipl e o f D r . Adam Smith, whose book was pub. , fluctuation lied at diarent times prevailed in th e pri ce of the SOUTH AMERICAN COLoNIEs. Sir J A MES MACKINTOSH was' extremely -desirous of fixing a day for a motion, of which he had given notice, respect in the diplomatic relations, or rather the want of divlounAtic relations, between this country and the independent States of North and South America. He wished very much to x Thurs day a_fnni . , _Tlit for this purpose, if the Hon. .Aleinbtx tin Aber. (teen, who had given notice of a motion for that ev ' would allow hi m to t a k e th e prccadencts. Perhaps, asthus subject was one not Dilly of great importance, but of an urgent nature, his Hon. Friend would consent to the nostponment of his motion. Mr. HUME consented, and Thursday se'nnight was ac cordingly fixed for Sir J. Abckintosh's motion. WAYS AND lIEANS. The House resoWed itself into Committeea of Ways and l!lean4. SUGAR .DUTY. Mr. HUSIIISSON said that in the absence of his Right H o n. Friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, lie had to sub- Mit to the House the usual vote for the. Duty on Sugar. He understood an Hon. Member had some Amendment to pro -pose ; but as he (Mr. Huskisson) was not aware of the grounds on which the Amendment would be moved, and as the vote was . an annual one, he should for the present confine himself to moving the vote ; which the Right Hon. Gentleman did ac cordingly. The motion being put, Mr. HUME-said, be felt reluctant t o p ress any motion upon Ministers, for further reduction, after the liberal policy they had sheen ; but he had no doubt the plan he should propose would, if carried into effect, be the niece s of relieving the people, withotit affecting our Revenue. The article in question was a most important necessary of life ; and, as had been obs served of tobacco, its consumption decreased exactly in pro portion with the increase of duty put upon it. The same obser vation applied to wine. The duty being increased, the. con sumption became less, and the Revenue sufrered. With regard to the duty on many articles, much, perheps too much, had been said of the dealers ; but the House shradd look at the consumers as well as the dealers. And the producers cf this article were also deserving of consideration ; for they (the West Indian Proprietors) were known to be in a sten of great distress. The duty on sugar had been so heavy that the consumption-of it had not k e p t pace w i t h the increase of population since the war. The consumption was in tact now pretty nearly the same vs in 1814. In Ireland the average of three years, at the pe riod of 1800, was 302000 cwt., whereas a t present it was only 222,000 cwt. In England, in the year Ibl6, the consumption was 2,145,000 cwt., and in IIP2 it was net more than 2,400,000 —a clear proof, in his opinion, that the price of the article, owing to the heavy duty, was too great, and impeded the na tural consumption. He thought, therefore, his Majesty's Go vernment would do well to take ofl'a part of the duty, if only by way of expedient. The revenue, he thought, would not materially suffer, perhaps not at all, while certainly the West India interest would be considerably improved. Even if they were to break in upon the Sinking Fund to the extent of le 5):, or 390,0091. for one year, they would do no more t h an t h eir chesty to - .yards the suMSring West Indians, in merely giving them a small chance of recorery. They were told that relief was administered to them by the reduction of thirteen pence half penny on rum. But he considered that a paltry diminution ; and the more so when compared with the law which had given to them some interest last Session, by the new distillery lows, which excluded rum from the large markets both cf Scotland and Ireland. He could not altogether approve of the allowance made fu r wastage, which he thought ought to he merged in a large deduction from the present amount of slaty. To meet the West Indians in their present distressed state, and offer them no better assistance, would be beyond precedent. It was his object in rising to propoese an amendment of the Resoluti on , deductin g 7 s . f rom t h e present d uty: His amendment, there fore, was, that instead of 27e. the duty should he 295. • and he begged to say that b e ma d e t hi s proposition- as well' for the community as for the West Indies. The Amendment having been seconded and put from the Chair— Mr. BARING said, that it )vas undoubtedly th e d u ty o f the House to l oo k to the condition of the ditEirent classes of the community with a view to• aflbrding them relief when in a state of distress. He sitould therefore say that, if im pertant, the reduction en the amount of duty on sugar would rye one for which he might vote ; but in doing so he should feel himself obliged to look at the general state of the finances of the country—a duty to which his Honourable Friend (Mr. Hume) was not amenable, because - he had the whole of the Sinking l'und at his dieposal, in which. he (Mr. Baring) was not so fertunate.e--The result of that reference to the finances of the country in the pre sent case was, . that it did not appear to him that they co u ld spare the reduction called fir by the Honourable Member for Aberdeen. And he would say, that if they could, It might be applied to other and better articles than sugar.— If a cer t a in quantity of duty were to be scrambled fee, as had been the case in former Sessions, then he did not think Sugar came in for the first title, as be did not think there was one pe, tbion fora reduction of duty on that article. Itle should next c e iy c det i . shcr u ; Rag e He b,