The Sun. — London, England, 1842-07-26 00:00:00

requires so much cleaning as almost to cost capita to the year's rent of fallow lraid, you pay more per acre for rearing than other crops. You pay more per quarter for ibrashieg • in short, everysaapensts 1 , 11 a wheat crop airy. othea. kind .)f -grain. You . hire your thrum of the Kshiela in Pi - 1114[4m toalic price of wheat, and after all it is. the most hazardous crop you avow, for no season answers tar all kinds of soil ; still nil soils are hired by the market value of wheat. Thus you give a dear loaf to your labourer, and consequently you must give high wages ; or you have a lot of paupers on the parish, and thus you are saddled with rates equal to the difference. Now my opinion is, that a farmer ought to be valued in and out of a farm, just as a manufac turer would into and out of a mill fall of machinery. Let him farm to the best of his judgment, and he will cheerfully give the rent he pays at present. He will also leave the land improved, and he will be the first to repeal the Corn-laws entirely. I would to-morrow, but I would also puss an Act to repeal all leases. We should then have bread cheap, wages probably might be a little lOwer ; but even then the poor man would be far better off ; for we, as farmers, should employ more people, and the manufacturing labourer would get bread at a price - that would enable him - to spare something for the shopkeeper. Thus trade would increase at home, and our manufacturers would then produce goods equally low as their foreign competitors, besides we are yet the manufactory of the world, and depend upon it there is more injury dune to this nation's commerce by the apparent want of liberality than there would be if fully carried out ; for, so far from throwing out of culti vation our land, a repeal of the Corn-laws upon my plan would urge us to greater exertion, and in five years we should grow wheat sufficient for the three kingdoms, and we should be able to sell it at prices they could not export it to us for. As to barley, you need only ask a maltster that has used one cargo of foreign, whether he will ever purchase another, and he will tell you—no. "I will now say ' good day ;' but let me tell you in reply to your remark, a that I am become h Radical,' — that I sin not a Radical—l am a Tory, and I hope to live long enough to see Teriss.s the most liberal in wise and wholesome measures, of all grades, amongst political distinctions. .Good day "Wheat, 20 to 32 bushels per r.c7e. "Barley, 28 to •48 a „ " Oats, :12 to 56 „ ~ „ " Wheat will average full 30s. per acre for manure." " Birmingham, July 23, 1842. " have to apprise yon, that at a meeting, duly convened by public advertisement, and held at the Bed Inn, Phillip-street, in this borough, on Thursday even ing, the follewing resolutions were unanimously adopted, J. W. Winfield in the Chair S.— "1. That the appalling distress which prevails throughout the country is rapidly consigning the indus trious-clasSes to the most abject and degrading poverty, and, by the destruction of the profits of trade, is absorb ing the capital of the tradesman and manufacturer, and threatens to involve them all, middle and working classes alike, in one common ruin ; that the continuance of this state of things inn :t speedily occasion the disorganisa tion of society, and - plunge the country into all the . horrors of convulsion and anarchy. "2. That the present period of depression and dis tress is about the seventh that has occurred during a period of twenty-seven years, which ought to have been years of uninterrupted prosperity and contentment ; that at each of these periods the people have been struck - by an unseen hand—their fortunes have been sacrificed, and their industry blasted, by almost unseen laws. Those laws are now lasd bare be fore the public eye—Corn-laws to make scarce and dear the, food which supports man's life, and Money-laws to make scarce and dear the money which purchases the food ; Corn-laws to aggrandise the landed interest, and Money-laws to aggrandise the moneyed interest. Crushed thus... between this double oppression, the people are either - deprived of employment altogether, or they are reduced to half employment, or they are condemned to give tuuell le bour for little money, and thus they are con demned to give much money for little food. " :3. That believing this country to be on the eve of convulsion, and being utterly without hope, that the Goa - vernment will bring forward or adopt any adequate mea sures to arrest the ruin of the middle classes, or relieve the cruel privations of the people, and feeling that, in the existing state of things, there is no security for property or. life, ruin - scathing the one, and starvation destroying the other ; they believe the extreme case has arisen, in which it is the duty of the Members for this borough, in co-operation with every :Member of all parties, who claims a title to common prudence. or com mon humanity, to attempt to arrest the progress of Go vernment, by refusing to grant supplies, and by every other constitutional means, until the distresses of the people arc relieved, and that prosperity and happiness restored, which their industry and skill ought to com mand. "4. That this meeting recommends a general amalga mation of all opinions and interests amongst our influen tial fellow-townsmen, for the purpose of promoting an universal organisation of the whole of the people, by which their numerous wrongs and grievances may be redressed, and the political rights of the millions secured. " I have transmitted a copy of the above resolutions to George Frederick Muntz, Esq., and Joshua Scholefield, Esq., the Members for this borough, individually, in each of which copies I specially pointed out the resolu tion concerning the withholding of supplies from the Governinent.-1 am, Sir, your obedient humble servant, " JOSEPH A LANDER, "Secretary of the Birmingham A.C.L. Association." " Blackburn, July 23, 1842. " Dear Sir,-1 have forwarded to you three newspa pers, viz., Carlisle Journal,Dunafries and Galloway Courier, and the Preston Chronicle. You will find in the two latter papers advertisements of farms to let, belonging to Sir JameaGraham, but in the first-named paper no such advertisement can be found. lam told that he has ad • veriised at home in vain for tenants, and now he seems to be seeking them from a distance. Yesterday I met an enlightened farmer from Gretna-green, who informed me that the rate of wages paid to an excellent farm-la bourer was generally (north of Carlisle) 10d. per day ; that he himself was paying that sum, and that no more was paid QII Sir James Graham's estates. Why, this beats the Duke of Buckingham out-and-out I Several hand-loom manufacturers here have this week reduced their weavers' wages from 3S. to 2s. 6d per piece, being 17 per cent., and this, too, notwithstanding the boasted improvements, of the Manchester Guardian of Wednes day last. It will now be difficult for .a good weaver on these coarse cloths to earn more than 3s. per week. What are these impoverished creatures to do? Though now in a deplorable condition, that must be much aggravated When wiser sets in. Every eye in this district, except the jaundiced ones, turns to the League ; every prayer is breathed, for ita succese. We say continue your sittings— continue, continue, and victory ultimately shall crown your efforts. " Yours truly, " W. T. " P. A. Taylor, Esq." - ; " Stiatford, Essex, July 23, 1842. " Sir,—ln order to bear testimony to the statements already made as to the condition of the agricultural la bourers , of West : Barn, and its vicinity, a gentleman in formed me, upon whose statements implicit reliance may be placed, that he had occasion to call at several of the houses of this class of persons only a few days since, when be observed the wife and children of one labourer partaking of g rey peas f'or'dinner, without meat or bread ; at another lahha; he saw the wife and children eating the very refuse of poititees, without meat or bread. I could enumerate niany other instances of the same kind, and, upon inviry, he found in each case the men employed and in receipt of the teasel wages of the district, and considered sober and industrious men ; yet this was the best fare they could provide for their families. " Not many months since upwards of one thousand females were employed in the vicinity of Stratford Marsh, at staymaking. After labouring the whole of the day, the very beSt workwomen could only earn from to 2-4 d., and the inferior from Id. to 11d. per day." Mr. BIGGS of Leicester, said it was his painful duty to be compelled to state that the distress which had hi therto existed had greatly increased of late in Leicester, and was still increasing. He should submit some facts to the meeting, which would sufficiently prove the dis tress to be on the increase ; and, alluding to the future, he must say he saw no hopes of relief. He expected that next winter the distress in Leeds would be greater than was ever known at any previous period of her his tory. In 1840 the poor-rates amounted to 10,975/. ; in 1841 they had increased to 15,5941. ; and in the first quarter of the present year they amounted to 5,120/. In addition to these heavy rates they had been compelled to enter into a public subscription, by which means 2,000/. was raised for the relief of the poor belonging to the adjoining districts resident in Leeds, who had such is strong objection to go back to the agricultural districts to which they belonged that they remained in the town, choosing to submit to the liabilities of the law, which they did by be g ging and vagrancy. The number of these people ha(lincreased to such an extent that a troop • of horse had been quarter, d with them, fearing an out break, which was a thing unprecedented in that town. Since 1815 the full in the wages of labour was 35 per cent., the fall of property 40 per cent., and the fall of house property 30 per cent. In 1831 there were 250 houses unoccupied'; in 1841 there were 650 ; and in 1842 • there were 1,600 unoccupied houses, one-seventh of all the dwellings in the town. Some of these statements had been already made 'by Sir J. Eastbope in the House of Commons ; and ho (Mr. 8i,, ,, g,5) could corroborate every word'that the Hon. Gentleman had said upon the subje - ct of distress. In Hinckley the people were in the greatest distress, and had been for some time, o ne . twelfth of the whole population, 7,000, being employed in breaking stones in the bastile yard. He (Mr. Biggs) had always observed that dear years of corn were in -variably years of suffering, and cheap years, of prosperity, comfort, and happiness. In 1834, 1835, and 1836, for example, when cora (lid not average mare than 425. a quarter, the working classes were comfortable, and in a ;high state of prosperity. In those years the firm, of avhich ho (Mr. Biggs) was a partner, paid 1,0001. a week itt wa , ves, it now paid no more than 300/. gentleman from ShAield stated at the Conference a day or two ago, that he would undertake to take on 500 more men to-morrow if the Corn-laws were repealed ; he (Mr. 13.) would not be so confident as to say that he ,Would mice on the number to-morrow, bat he had no #4loubtilat under those circumstances, he should feel no difficulty in employing, double the men next year that he did now. Those who had sent him there as a delegate, bad desired bha to express their grateful thanks for the tone, manner, and persz!vertuice, which they (the Nu ference) had displayed in continuing this deputation. He trusted they would continue their sittings, and they must succeed, as any cause founded on high moral prin ciples and sound justice always did. They must per severe, and spite of good report and evil report continue, and preys forward this great and glo r i ous cause, till they achieved a triumph, and produced a h a p py consum- Ination.—(Loud cheers.) Mr. BRIGHT rose to bring before the notice of the Conference a letter which has been received from Chorlev, Lancashire, detailing one of those horrible eases of destitution to which the suffering population of this teuntryare driven : 46 chorley, July 22, 1842. " Sir,4—Thinking that the following statement of facts, which occurred under my notice, might possibly serve to convince some incredulous people that there really is dis tress in the country, and that of no common kind, I beg to inform yon rifit, - the eorrectness of which I am able to prove, if necessary; by the evidence of credible wit nesses. About the 19th of May last a farmer, named Richard l'ilkington, of J)nxburv, gave me the carcase of a cow which had been dead three days. for the purpose of 1. cuing my dog With it. After having it near my stable for a day, the smell arising from it was so very offensive, that I determined to bury it, but before I had accomplished this object, a number of calico-printers, who had been out of work for some time, hearing that I had this carcase, came to me, and begged and prayed that I would give them some of it. 'This lat first re fused to do, as I could not think of allowing them to eat what I feared would prove injurious, but so urgent were their importunities, that at last I consented, after warn ing them repeatedly that T would not be accountable for the result. Before doing so, however, I had suggested that if they really would take it, it would be well to let it remain a day or two in a brine of saltpetre, to take away, if possible, some of the impurities arising from disease. They exclaimed, in almost these words-, " Wait a day or two ! it's impossible ; we cannot wait. Think of our wives and families ; do give give it us, pray do." Unable to refuse any longer. I consented, when they set to work, and cut up this putrid carcase, each man and woman taking as much as they could carry. By and by, in came one poor person after another to get, if possible, some portion of this flesh. I understood about six fami lies partook of it. One man, who was formerly in good circumstances, evidently reluctant to be seen taking such nauseous food, lingered about for some time, bat, at length. as if driven to desperation, seized a piece, which he folded up in a cloth, and then hiding it under his coat, walked away as quickly as he could. One of these men told me this morning, that when in full work, he earned 20s. to 30s. per week, but for the last six or eight months his earnings have not exceeded 2s. per week on an average. After this took place, one man who got a share of the prize, actually took me to what he called his shambles, and showed me some of the flesh salted. If required, I am prepared to state the names of several of these people, but refrain from doing so unnecessarily, as it would only increase their misery to have their poverty made more public. The above is a fact, and I shall be happy to reply to any further inquiries you may wish to nuke on the subject. It may possibly be confounded with the one furnished by Mr. Hyland, which is, however, quite a distinct case, but equally true. "I have the honour to remain, Sir, yours with respect, " GEORGE LIVESEY, Veterinary Surgeon." Mr. Bright continued—To comment upon this melancholy narratien is surely unnecessary. It must be borne in mind, that in times of ordinary prosperity, the people of Chorley, and the whole of the manufacturing districts, are in acondition of considerable comfort, and in a state of independence far exceeding that of the great bulk of labourers in districts not enriched by manufac tures. They are able to procure and to enjoy all the necessaries, and not a few of the luxuries of life. They are possessed of education, and their children are not neglected, and they feel themselves to be of some worth in the country. All this gives them an indepen dence of feeling and thought, and a sensitiveness as to maintaining their position, too frequently 'wanting amongst the operative classes. To men such as these poverty is indeed a calamity, when it is joined with a knowledge that existence must henceforth be obtained from the poor's-rates, a fund which all honest minded men shun almost as long as life can be maintained without assistance from it.—(Cheers.) I marvel that their sufferings have been silently endured. and without the commission of acts of violence ; but I believe that few of us are fully aware of the information and intelligence existing amongst a large portion of the working men. That this patient endurance should be the great theme of admiration when our statesmen dis cuss the causes of, and the remedy for, the national dis tress.is not to be wondered at ; hut with the admiration expressed, it would be well to mingle some real commi seration, and some earnest attempts to arrest the progress of the scourge which is daily taking a wider range over our ill-fated country.—(Cheers.) The letter I have read is no solitary instance of the extremity to which men are driven by the sufferings of hunger. It is but an example of much that is now going on in many districts. General distress is indeed admitted by many of the monopolists. The facts we have produced in this room at this meeting, and on many former Occasions, will not be lost on the mind and on the feelings of the British people. They well know that starvation and famine are not decreed by the Omnipotent Ruler, who has provided abundantly for the wants of all his creatures, but that the miserable policy, the wretched wrong-doing, the cupidity, and the blindness of the infatuated men who have usurped the power they wield, who have enthrones' themselves above " God, and king, and law," have thus cursed the land with barrenness and caused haggard want to be an in mate of the homes of millions of their countrymen.— (Loud cheers.) But it is not the avowed monopolists alone who refuse to give relief to their suffering brethren. The parasitical plants, ever entwining around the titled and the great, such is the man who, to the disgrace of Bolton be it said, has been returned as their representa tive in conjunction with that noble free trader Dr.Bowring. The time is come when the people must look well to their representatives. The calamities which menace us upon every side will admit of no halting between goes" and evil. If constituencies would do anything to save their country they must have men who firmly adhere to their principles, and who are careless of the smiles and blandishments of titled and aristocratic patrons—we must learn the • doctrine of self-reliance. If the people are to prosper and to triumph it must be through their own intelligence and power, and the honest and wise ex ercise of their political rights.—(Loud cheers.) Mr. EDWARDS, of Lambeth, recommended the adop tion of a petition, to the effect that the present Parlia ment be dissolved. Mr. OVERBURY, of Westbury, said he was neither Whig nor Tory, but a free-trader. lie was sent there to represent the manufacturers and traders of Westbury, in Wilts. If the meeting had heard of distress in the northern and midland districts the case was noless despe rate in the west. The people were in a starving condition; the distress had latterly increased. The bulk of the po pulation at the present time were entirely without em ployment, except such as they obtained from the parish authorities.—(Hear, hear.) The average wages of the weavers had not been more than four or five shillings each for the last eighteen months. The character of the population generally, was very orderly. They ought to be very jealous of applying the workhouse test to such a population. The trade of the town was principally a home trade ; and he frequently took jour nies as one of the partners, to the midland districts for orders. Formerly he had seen large quantities of the goods which they manufactured in the hands of the working classes at Birmingham and other places ; now they appeared to be wholly destitute of them. H e th en read the following letter from Westbury : " Westbury, July 19, 1842. "Sir,—Having understood that you are going to Lon don to represent the state of the manufacturers in this place to the Anti-Corn-law Conference, we, the shop keepers of the town ar.d neighbourhood, request you will make the folloWing statement on our behalf :—We have for some time past experienced a growing depression in trade. Our returns are painfully declining. The working classes have not the means to purchase, and we are unable to continue our accustomed credit. The poor are destitute. The middling classes are seriously straitened ; and, unless some change can be effected in trtole, a very painful crisis must overtake us. It aggeavated the distress, that the middle classes were now utterly unable to relieve the distress of their fellow-townsmen. Suck being the condition of the town he hoped he would not have to go back to Westbury with Sir Robert Peel's compliments and hopes that times would soon be better. Much had been said about Providence in connexion with the distress. It was not the first time that the wickedness of legislators had been charged upon Pro vidence. Whilst they had been endowed with intelli gence to discover the cause of the distress, it was not jwit to attribute to Providence that which was the result of refusing to allow a free interchange of labour. He believed that the repeal of the Corn-laws would be beneficial, not only to the tradesmen but to the agriculturists themselves. Competition had sharpened the wits of the manufacturers, and he believed it would turn the agriculturists from their present condition into a scientific, persevering, • and intellectual set of men, as well as free them frog - senile dependance on their landlord.. On this, as well as every other ground of policy and justice, he thought a repeal of the Corn-laws would confer great benefit on the country. Mr. P. TAYLOR, of Coventry, said it had been as serted in the House by Mr. Hawes the other night that the opposition offered to the Committee of Supply was factious. Now what was faction ? He maintained that the term factious could only be applied when the end was factious, and it could not be factious to attempt to obtain food for a starving people. The question was one in which every man, woman, and citild, who lived by the eating of food, had a direct interest ; and those members of the House of Cpmmons who endeavoured to stop the sup plies, - • to secure food for the people, were not, a n d cou ld not on that account be called, factious. This conduct was said to be inconsistent with the very character of a representative government ; it could not be inconsistent with that which did not exist.—(Hear.) He maintained that the conduct of Sir R. Peel was emphatically fac tious ? And why ? Because he had made free-trade speeches, whilst he had proposed no measures for carry ing out his principles.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. EDWARDS, of Lambeth, said it should be stated, in justice to Mr. Hawes, that he had always voted for the repeal of the Corn-laws. Mr. SMITH, of Colne, said he ought to have been on his road to Manchester, if Sir R. Peel's assertion re specting the improvement in trade had been correct, but he believed that it was.altogetlif:r unfounded. The pro p2rty of tradesmen in the town which he represented had been depreciating in value to a fearful extent for the last three or four years. Sacrifices were being constantly made by persons in every branch of trade and manufac ture. He himself had lost no less a stun than three thousand pounds within the space of three months, and he believed many of his townsmen had sustained losses nearly as great as his own. From whom were they suffering ? They were suffering from the Duke of Buckingham and his party—those men who would blast the land with barrenness for the sake of their own selfish iaterests. He believed that by availing themselves of every constitutional resource they would at length attain their object. Mr. S. SMITH next delivered an eloquent address to the meeting, chiefly insisting upon the impolicy of mix. ing up the question of the repeal of the Corn-laws with the political objects of the Chartists. Such a union would be fatal to the great end they had in view. The question of a . repeal of the Corn-laws was one of humanity, and would be lowered by being united with any other, seeking for political privileges. It was a pressing question, involving the right of the Pe(2ple to be fed, and could not be postponed till the slinage was conferred. Death was making his victim THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY MORNING, JULY 26, 1842. amongst the starving millions, and they could not delay to obtain paper constitutions. This was a question fitted to awake the energies of the English people. History showed that all their revolutions and insurree 7 lions arose from the pressure of unjust taxation. The system of benevolences had procured Magna Charta ; head-money produced Watt Tyler, and ship-money evoked John Ilamptlen. '['hey must succeed by perse verance, by not receding from the high ground on which they took their stand, and concentrating public opinion upon the question. The bread-taxing thousands must give way before the patient perseverance of the bread-taxed millions.- - The progress of the Corn law question showed this. When Mr. Hume, in 1829, moved a resolution in favour of a 20s. duty instead of the then existing law, he could get but 12 persons to support him. But the question progressed, and now they had near 300 who recorded their votes against those laws.—(Cheers.) Be had himself watehtd the progress of this question in the House of Commons. le recollected when first brought before the House by Mr. Villiers, it was the signal for a general rush to dinner ; and when Honourable Members came back about eleven o'clock, noises more discordant titan ever proceeded from a menagerie issued forth, and thus the question was brought to a con elusion. But bow different was the scene on Friday night ? The able and eloquent speech of Mr. Gilmon, the manly and indignant address of Sir. Villiers, the straight forward and English appeal of Mr. Fielden, and the bold and hearty denunciations of Mr. Cobden were listened to in silence by the country gentlemen ; and, beaten in argument and in facts, they must soon relinquish their hold of the Corn-laws, anit allow the people to eat un taxed bread.—(hear, hear.) Mr. LEWIS hoped the excellent address they had just heard would be printed in a pamphlet form for distribu tion.—(Bear, hear.) The Conference then adjourned till this day. ELECTION COMMITTEES. IPSWICH. The Committee re•assembled yesterday morning at eleven o'clock, P. M. Stewart, Esq. in the chair. William Blythe was the first witness examined. He deposed to his having been paid 30s. for his expenses at the election, he being an out voter. He was by trade a shipwright, and had since been discharged from his situa tion fur voting " Blue." Joseph Barron Warren, another ship carpenter, was called and examined. He had a vote and voted at the last borough election of Ipswich for Mr. Gladstone and Lord Desert. They canvassed witness. He was intro duced to them in a public-house. After the election witness received 30s. for his travelling expenses, &c. Cross-examined by Mr. AUSTIN—When I came to Ipswich I had made up my mind to vote for Blue. By Mr. PHILLIPS—I have loted for Mr. Wason. Emanuel Baxter deposed that he was an elector in Ipswich. On Jic day of the nomination witness was at the King's Arms, where he had breakfast, and in the course of the day, something to drink, neither of which he paid for. After the election, witness received 1/. for his expenses. He spent more than 1/. He was told be fore the election that he would be paid his legal expenses. Robert Nannton examined by Mr. KINGSLAKE—I am the landlord of the Salutation public-house, in Ipswich. On the nomination night I saw Mr. Bristoe at my house. He called to ask if any body was there. lie is my landlord. He said I was to shut, up the house and let no one in. A number of perso:.s had been drinking in the house that day. I will not swear that they all paid for what they had. A man of the name of Kersly ordered refreshments, and took them into the room himself. It was my wife that supplied him. I do not know what he ordered. A breakfast was held at my house on the day of the election. Mr. Henry Bond ordered it. He said it was for a few friends and neigh -hours. He told me that it was a private, concern of his own, and he said he would pay me for it. I supposed it was an election breakfast. I received the money at his house the next morning. I supplied liquor at the time of the election that is not paid for. Ido not expect that I shall be paid, as people ordered beer without paying for it. Mr. PHILLIPS said the witness was looking across the table at Mr. Bristoe, his landlord, and he wished the Committee to notice the circumstance. The CHAIRMAN—I have noticed that the Ipswich authorities have frequently been drawn up in array oppo site the witness, and on the side of the Counsel for the sitting Members. Ido not know how this operates upon the witnesses. Mr. Bristoe then withdrew. The examination was continued.—l supplied beer and bread to William Pack and his wife. I gave it him, as he was a voter. I saw Mr. A. B. Cooke about the time I gave Pack the refreshment. Mr. Cooke did not order it, nor did he say. anything to me about it. Mr. Cooke spoke to Pack, but I don't know whether he left the house with him. I did not hire the band at the last election. I recommended a man of the name cf Creasy to Mr. Bianchi, who I under stood was to supply the band for the election. The reason I asked Mr. Bristoe to employ Creasy was, that I could not play myself. Mr. Bristoe said he could not attend to it, and Mr. Bianchi was to go to Mr. Steward. I accompanied Mr. Bianchi to Mr. Steward, at the Little Carlton, and Mr. Bianchi then asked Mr. Steward to give Creasy an engagement. I was not in the room at the time, but I afterwards understood that Creasy had been engaged. Ido not know how much was paid for the band. I had none of the money myself. Creasy gave me 30s. for playing at the chairing.' I was can vassed by Lord Desna. Cross-examined by Mr. AUSTIN—I applied to Mr. Bristoe, as there had been a dispute between Mr. Creasy and another musician. Mr. Bond ordered breakfast for more than sixteen or eighteen persons, and told me to supply breakfast to the amount of 3s. each man. I have no skimbla present against any person for refreshment. By the CHAIRMAN—The members of the band were not voters. A boy of the name of Gobbold played, whose father is a voter. Robert Matt, examined by Mr. PHILLIPS—He de posed that he was a shoemaker at Ipswich. Was door keeper at the " Little Carlton Rooms." Mr. Steward, Mr. Cooke, Mr. Bristoe, Mr. Cobbald, and others fre quented the rooms, and gave witness orders. There were eight other door-keepers, and they received 3/. to divide between them. Mr. Gee. Christopherson, examined by Mr. POWER— Saw Mr. Cobbald and Mr. Bristoe canvassing with Mr. Gladstone. Saw Mr. Cooke bring voters to the poll. Witness canvassed on the part of Mr. Gisborne. Mr. George Joycelyn examined by Mr. KitstosnaKE— Is a resident in Ipswich. Takes an active part in elec tion proceedings. On the Monday previous to the elec tion witness canvassed with Lord Desert, in company with several other gentlemen. On Tuesday went with Mr. Gladstone to canvas stwo voters, but did not accom pany him in his general canvass. Has no doubt that the candidates were staying at the White Horse in Ipswich. Knows the rooms called the " Little Carlton Rooms." They have been called by that name for two years. During the election saw Mr. Cooke, Mr. Steward, and several other gentlemen there. Was at a dinner given after the election. The dinner was given in honour of the "triumph of principle."—(Laughter.) Mr. Brstoe was there, and returned thanks. Mr. Cooke was also there with Mr. Steward. By Mr. AUSTIN—I called on Mr. Ridley with Mr. Gladstone, to ask Mr. Ridley for his vote. Mr. AUSTIN then proposed to ask the witness the fol lowing question,—" Did Mr. Gladstone, in answer to an observation of Mr. Ridley, say, if money is spent at this election, it will be contrary to the intention both of Lord Desert and myself, as we came down with a full deter mination that such a course should not be adopted." Mr. KINGSLAKE objected to the question, on the ground that it was irregular. Mr. AUSTIN having replied, The Committee decided in favour of the question being put. Joycelyn—l introduced Mr. Gladstone to Mr. Ridley, and Mr. Gladstone asked him to give him his vote in conjunction with Lord Desert. Mr. AUSTIN—Mr. Ridley formerly voted on the Libe ral side, I believe, and, at the last election, but one, he did not vote at all ? Witness—Yes. . Mr. Joycelyn—Mr. Ridley, in answer to Mr. Glad stone, said, he should certainly not vote on the opposite side, but, in all probability, he should not vote at all. Then he quite approved of the measures of Sir R. Fed. He (Mr. Ridley) said a large sum of money was about to be raised, and, he hoped, that money would be properly appropriated by Sir R. Peel, and if so, at uny future election, he (Mr. Ridley) would certainly- vote for Mr. Gladstone and Lord Desert. Even on that occasion he thought Sir Robert Peel required all the strength he could get. He said he was no party man, and he held himself perfectly aloof from the other parties in the borough. He said he recollected that en a previous occasion a large amount of money was spent, and it must be the case at that election. Mr. Gladstone, in reply, said, then Mr. Ridley, both Lord Desart and myself will assuredly lose our election, for we came down here with the express understanding that were not in any way to sanction the expenditure of money. Mr. Ridley did not, then promise his vote, but he afterwards voted for Mr. Gladstone and Lord Desart. James Hain deposed that while he was canvassing for the Blue party he went with Mr. Cook, Mr. Cobbald, and others engaged in canvassing for the Blue party. Witness gave a number of 3s. tickets away. Perhaps gave twenty away. The tickets included tea, coffee, brandy, beer, meat, eggs, bread and butter, and any thing else that a man wants for a breakfast.—(Laughter.) Cross-examined by Mr. AUSTIN—The breakfast was given to collect the voters together. Lord Desart would not give a breakfast, and witness, with Mr. Churchman and two or three other gentlemen, got up the breakfast at their own expense. They had canvassed the voters two or three days before the breakfast was thought of. They will never be repaid by any person. Mr. AUSTIN—It has been stated, Mr. Hain. that von bribed a man named Bailie by giving him 51. Is that true or false ? Mr. Haill—lt is false ; and I wish I could have an opportunity of bringintr an action against the person who said so. Bailie is h'ghly i Idignant at the imputation, and if you will only 1 eeit the inquiry open another week, you w:11 see what the coosequence will be. John-Brewer deposed that he was a voter at Ipswich. Voted for Yellowat the last election. Mr.Bristoe canvassed witness for Lord Desart and Mr. Gludstone: Witnes3 said he should vote against them. Mr. Bristoe said, " Cant we do anything with you this time," and witness said they could not. On the day of election witness called on a voter of the name of Taylor, and while he was there Lord Desart and Mr. Bristoe called, and L or d De- sart retired with the voter into another' roolnTihey remained there an hour, and witness went away. Taylor had previously promised the Yellows. Robert Jopson Taylor was then called, but did not answer. Mr. IusroSLAKE read a letter from a Mr.Pilck, stating that Mr. Pownall, an attorney of Ipswich, and an active partizan on the part of the Blues, had advised Taylor not to answe r the summons, and he (Mr. Pownall) would defend him in that course. This letter arrived express from Ipswich, and at the time the letter left there wns a postehaise waiting to. convey Taylor, but he rs,fnsed to go. Taylor had refused, .on the advice of Mr. Pownall, to take the summons, and it was re turned with the letter. 'The CHAIRMAN said, proof must be had of the service of the summons, when the attendance of the witness would be compelled. Norbrock was then called: —I let out flies and cabs. On the day of the- election at Ipswich, Mr. Steward hired two flies to convey voters to the voting place. Mr. Steward paid for them. lam not a voter. It being tour o'clock, the Committee adjourned till to-day at eleven o'clock. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, July 25, The Earl of SHAFTESBURY in the absence of the Lord Chancellor in consequence of indisposition, took his seat on the Woolsack at Five o'Clock. The Earl of RIPON laid on the table certain papers by command of her Majesty, and also pre sented a petition from Marylebone, praying that the Mines and Collieries Bill as it came from the House of Commons might pass into a law. The Earl of WICKLOW presented a similar peti tion from a place in Yorkshire. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE presented simi lar petitions from the West Riding of the county of York. CONFERENCE WITH THE COMMONS. WICKLOW HARBOUR BILL. A Conference was held with the Commons, on the Wicklow Harbour Bill. On the return of the Conference, the Earl of DEVON stated that the Commons had given in a paper, stating their reasons for disagreeing with their Lordships' amendments. The Earl of SHAFTESBURY moved that their Lordships do not insist on their amendments. Agreed to, MAYNOOTH GRANT. The Earl of CLANCARTY presented a petition, praying for inquiry into the system of education pur sued at Maynooth ; and also praying their Lordships not to consent to any further grant to that establish ment. In the latter prayer the Noble Earl stated that he did not concur. MESSAGE FROM THE COMMONS. Messengers from the Commons brought up the Manchester, Birmingham, and Bolton Police Bill, and several other Bills, which were respectively read a first time. HEARING COUNSEL AT THE B.R. Lord CAMPBELL postponed the motion, of which he had given notice for this evening, relating to the hearing of Counsel, being Members of the other House of Parliament, at the Bar of their Lordships' House on any Bill pending before their Lordships, to Thursday next. SUDBURY 'DISFRANCHISEMENT BILL. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE said that in con sequence of the absence of the Lord Chancellor, he would postpone the second reading o f thi s Bill until Friday next, on which evening he hoped the Lord Chancellor would he able to attend, and then he thought it would he advisable that some morning should be'fixed to hear counsel on the subject. He had understood from the Lord Chancellor that it was his Lordship's desire that some morning should be fixed for the hearing of counsel ; he apprehended, therefore, that on Friday their proceedings would not extend to any great length, as counsel would be merely called in to be informed what morning it would be convenient to their Lordships to hear them. Lord KENYON wished to know if the Noble and Learned Lord (Campbell) intended to bring forward his motion on Thursday. Lord CAMPBELL certainly would bring forward his motion on Thursday at the sitting of the House, if the Lord Chancellor should then be present. The Noble and Learned Lord also presented a petition from the Convention of Royal Burghs in Scotland in favour of free trade. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY gave notice that on Monday next he would put a question to the Noble Lord at the head of the Admiralty, relative to a report that it was the intention of the Government to make sonic alteration in the packet station between Donaghadee and Portpatrick. The Bishop of NORWICH presented a petition from some workers of mines in the neighbourhood of Whitby, in favour of the Mines and Collieries Bill. The Bishop of LONDON presented a petition from a gentleman named Turner, praying that in case any grant should be made for the encouragement of vocal music, it might not be confined to any particular persons or system, but that equal encouragement should be given to every system which warranted such an application of public money. The Right Rev. Prelate said he would take that opportunity of asking two questions of the Noble Lord the President of the Council, whose speech on the subject of education had occasioned considerable sensation throughout the country. There were only two points in that speech respecting which he desired to give the Noble Lord an opportunity of explanation. The first related to the grants made to the two societies for pro moting education amongst children, the National School Society and • the British and Fo reign School Society. The Noble Lord had stated in rather strong terms that he should feel his duty not to make any distinction between the Church and the Dissenters on the subject of educa tion. The Noble Lord did not appear to state as an abstract proposition that there was to be no difference made between the Church and the Dissenters; had he done so he wouldhave felt it hisduty both asa minister and ruler of the Church to protest against such a principle. With respect to the instruction in Exeter Hall of vocal music, he entirely concurred with it ; he had subscribed to it, and would give it his support. But the Noble Lord had said other branches of instruc tion had been adopted with apparent success. Now this excited in his mind some apprehension, because from that it might be inferred that they would have a Government Normal School without any religious instruction. Against such a princi ple he had always, and must always, protest. Now, the question he wished to ask was whether the Go vernment or the Committee of Privy Council had any intention to erect a Government. Normal School ? LordWHARNCLIFFE could assure the Right Rev. Prelate that he had entirely mistaken all that he had said ; in the course he had pointed out for himself, he had adopted that pursued by his predecessors. He was surprised that any jealousy should exist on that. subject. He could assure the Right Rev. Prelate that there was no intention or desire on the part of the Government to adopt the principle of normal schools without religion. All that they wished was, to give them the easiest and most ready means of education. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY presented a petition from certain electors of Sudbury, praying to be heard by counsel against the Disfranchisement Bill. MINES AND COLLIERIES' BILL. The Earl of DEVON moved the re-committal of this Bill. Lord BROUGHAM believed that the cause for passing a part of the Bill arose from their Lordships not making inquiry into it themselves. .For his own part, he must say that he should have looked more in detail to the measure, but for his judicial duties. 111 hardly knew one Noble Lord who had perused any con siderable part of that evidence ; but, without further inquiry, there mi g ht b e som e g roun d s f or p ass ing a gr ea t portion of this Bill. Nothing was more natural, and therefore nothing was more common, than when a thing was disapproved o f, to say , l et us have a Bill to prohibit it, or a proclamation denouncing it, or a standing order to say that it shall no longer be. But they should recol lect that, as there was nothing so difficult as legislation, so there was nothing that required greater circum spection and greater caution—caution, because it was difficult, and circumspection because, as they coule hardly see at all in one direction, it was right they should look well around them in others. Because the future was veiled from their sight, the more reason there was that they should ponder upon the present and the past ; and most emphatically was it their duty to do so when they were called on to legislate on a subject no less important, no less difficult, no less deli cate than the employment of the labouring classes. They ought to avoid all compulsory e nactments with respect to the employment of the capital of the community, and in the same manner they ought to refrain from inter ference with the employment of labour. He was very , far frOm saying that there were no exceptions. Excep tions there undoubtedly were. If any species of !npliiy ment was criminal in itself, the Legislature certainly had 1 ; 11 a right t o i n t er f ere t o prevent it. ulist , y , delay inter after inquiry instituted, an d d e l a y, t oo l ong delay— posed, the Legislature interfered to put a stop to that which was called a trade, but which was in a fact a robbery, the African slave trade. In the same way, after lengthened inquiry, and after interposition of another guilty delay, the Legis lature interfered to put an end to slavery, having awarded a munificent compensation to those who claimed a right of property in their fellow-men. If an employment was immoral in itself, the Legislature had a right to put it down; if it had a tendency to produce immorality, provided that tendency was clear, distinct, and evid en t, th en t h e L eg i s l ature had a right to inter fere to p revent i t ; an d on that gr ound the first part of this Bill, Wi t h regar d to w hi c h they were all agre e d, namely, that part which related to the employment of female children, was fully justified. They ought in legislating on such a subj e ct , to be on their guard against being led away by first appearances.. If they considered any sort of employment wag prejudicial to any class of the community, they should first consider in what manner it was prejudicial to . the perso . n . employed. If it w as mere l y aga inst his interest—it they merely thought th e l a b ourer was wasting his time, and that he might employ himself more profitably else where, that was not their affair. They had nothing to do with that. They h a d no r i g ht to interfere. But it might be said that if any employment should be found to be prejudicial to the health of those engaged in it, that the Legislature had a right to interfere. The lot of man he feared was to live, not by the sweat of his brow alone, but by the wear and tear of his constitution also ; and if they were to inquire into the effects of various employments on the health of those engaged in them, he thought it would be found that the greater portion of the labouring classes in every country in the world were engaged in unhealthy occupations. The subject was a painful one, but it was forced upon him by the conviction that there were other measures vh'cli lurked behind that, before the other House— other employments with which Parliameat would be called upon to interfere. How many avocations were the working people of this country engaged in which tended at once to paralyze their limbs. The manufac ture of white lead, or braziery work, directly tended to produce paralytic complaints ; those who were engaged in steel tiling were suNect to asthmatic and other com plainte. But let any man go even among the peasantry of the country, and compare a, peasant who had toiled to the age of five-and-forty with one of their Lordships of the same age ; he (lid not hesitate to say that if the one appeared to be five-and-forty the other would appear to he seventy. But, then, he would be met, perhaps, with the answer that these labourers had the management of their own time, and that their fortunes were in their own hand ; that if they, knowing that certain occupations were unhealthy, chose to enter upon them, no oee could prevent them. Butthen, it was said, in thecase of children, it was different ; they required protection; they were nit able to judge for themselves ; they were put, by the ava rice, or indifference, or advice of their parents, into those lines of occupatien, in which their health was injured, their education neglected, and their constitution ruined. This would not lead them to the wished-for conclusion. If it once granted that persons must be permitted to enter upon the occupations to which he had adverted, and which were notoriously unhealthy. then he was anaid that another inference followed—viz., that some younger persons must be allowed to enter on those employments. suppose the case of apprenticeship. If a person was to learn any trade at all, it must be begun at a much earlier age than 21 ; the must be the case unless they meant to say that, because of their un healthiness, certain trades must be abolished. That ar gument did not apply to children of a very tender age. But, when under the guidance of certain principles and certain humane and praiseworthy feelings, they were entering upon this field of h-gislation, it w as r i g h t t h at they should settl e i n their own minds how far they were prepared to proceed. Let him remind their Lerdships, that they were then making laws to control the, labouring classes of the people—laws not to affect the rich, but the poor—not to affect the powerful, but the weak ; and let them take care that they did not subject themselves to the old and much too well grounded imputation against all legislators, in all ages, that they were very apt to forge fetters for the weak, and to cast their gossamer only round the strong. —(Hear, hear.) Now, with respect to females, nothing. could possibly be w orse th an t h e picture lias had been drawn with respect to the employment of female children in mines, and nothing could be more blameable than the conduct of many parents in that respect. But it must be remembered that miners and colliers were net the only persons whose conduct as parents was open to blame. It was not a much more unwholesome thing for a child of .eight, or nine, or ten, to be carried into a coal-mine, and there to crawl in a damp cavern for a greater number of hours than his strength could support, and then to be taken out tatigued and incapable of receiving any instruction ; this, bad as it was, was greatly to be deplored ; but perhaps it was not so bad as the cautious provision which was made by some parents for stunting the grog th of their child, for preventing him attaining a certain stature, and gaining a proportionable strength, lest while gaining that strength and stature he should also acquire a certain weight.—(Hear, hear.) He could state, on the authority of persons on whose information he could rely, that those individuals nete.r by any chance reached anything like old age, and that they were persons, ge nerally speaking, of unhealthy constitutions.—(Hear.) But he must go a little younger than that—to the very cradle. Was there anything more certain than that the most wholesome of all nutriment for a child was that with which nature had so bountifully supplied the mother ? It was, naturally speaking, the bounden duty of every mother to stickle her own child ; yet did he blame that poor woman who handed over her child to a foster-mother' in • order to obtain a place as nurse for herself ? Very far - from it ; he lamented without blaming it ; and he was certain that if a Bill came from the other House for abe • lishing the practice, it would be rejected by their Lord ships. Now it might occur to many how very ready they were to pass laws in reference to practices in which they themselves had no share, that they were great deal ers in cheap virtue—a commodity which, unlike all others, was more in demand the less it costa—(Hear.) le could not think that their Lordships would be in clined to deal very largely in that virtue. He thought that consideration ought to have its due weight in legislating on that subject. Ile could not help observing that he was very jealous of legislatorial interference between parents and children. The great Maker and Preserver of mankind had wisely implanted certain feelings in the breasts of parents with re erence to their children ; if they rashly provided a substitute for those feelings, and made an Act of Parlia ment more tenderly to cherish the child than the mother was disposed to do, not only would that Act of Parlia ment oftentimes fail of enforcement, but they might rely upon it that the substitution would deaden, and eerhaps extirpate, the maternal feelings of the parent. He hoped that this caution, which he humbly and respectfully ven tured to give to their Lordships, would be home in mind when they were called upon to legislate in future on this subject. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY wished to know in what situation his Noble Friend would be placed, if the House of Commons rejected his amendment, which he thought it was impossible they should accept? The unanimous opinion of, the coal-owners in his district was against the clause with respect to the appointment of in spectors. He thought agreeing to the Bill would be pro ceeding with measures at a railway pace. That was un worthy of that ifouse, and the dignity it ought to re:ain. If they once began this sort of legislation, there was no knowing where they would stop. In the other House, the Secretary of State said the Government would ' cor dially support the Bill. In this House the President of the Council said they were agreed on it ; but how were they agreed? The Noble Lord had said that he did not approve of the Bill. Now how were they agreed ? He wanted to hear some opinion of the Government on it. The President of the Board of Trade hat said nothing on it. One Noble Lord opposite had thrown him (the Marquis of Londonderry) over ; but the Noble and Learned Lord who . had spoken that evening had come to his rescue in one of the most statesman like speeches ever delivered. The Bill would institute a 'sys tem of vicious espionage. He had received many com munications from persons who had been employed in mines, denying that the employment of a miner was un healthy, and stating that the Bill would ruin thousands in the mining districts. He regretted having been under the painful necessity of intruding upon their Lordships, and would conclude by moving as an amendment that the Bill be referred to a Select Committee. The Earl of DEVON thought a great part of the speech of his Noble and Learned Friend opposite was a good argument in favour of the present Bill, for the ex ceptions introduced by his Noble and Learned Friend, to the general rule of non-interference, distinctly applied to the present Bill. Did not their Lordships see that the state of things which consigned women of all ages to work in collieries with men, almost in a state of nudity, must have a direct and immediate tendency to promote vice and immorality ? The employment of young chil dren, inasmuch as it precluded any attention being p a id to their education, al so constituted' an exception to the general rule of non-interference. It was the duty of the Legislature to interfere to prevent the demoralization of the rising generation. He had no wish to contravene the principles of political economy, but there were higher duties than any that political economy could teach. They had to take care that none of their institutions should be conducted so as to destroy the mind of the infant child, and it was of the utmost importance that children should he so brought up' as that hereafter they might become good citizens and good men, and to neglect to take measures to secure this was to commit not only a great moral :mime, but a great political mistake. He had naturally expected that the Noble Marquis would have pointed out those parts of the Bill on which he thought there was any doubt, and on which, therefore, further inquiry might be necessary ; but he would ask if there was any fact on which this Bill was founded on which the Noble Marquis had thrown the slightest doubt ? He (the Earl of Devon) contended that he had not. There could be no doubt but that women were employed in the mines, and if they were thrown out of employment their places would be supplied with men, who were more fit for that sort of work. Unless the Noble Marquis could get rid of . the fact that women and children were employed in the mines he could do no good by referring this Bill to a 'Select Committee. He believed that he had not, by altering the Bill, committed the suicidal part that the Noble Marquis had supposed he had done in filtering the Bill. On the contrary, he thought the Bill would be well received elsewhere, and that the pr omo t ers o f i t would be of opinion that he (the Earl of Devon) had ex ercised n sound discretion in introducing those altera tions. If a small increase in the price of ceal, or a smell diminution in the profits of the coal-owner, should be the result of this measure, it would be a cheap price to pay for getting rid of so much misery. The House of Commons had been accused of legislating hastily on this Subject ; he thought .the House of Commons had only done its duty in bringing forward the measure in the manner it had done, and lie trusted their Lordships would reject the atnendment. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY explained. Lord BROUGHAM had not argued this question on the grounds of political economy at all, but on the grounds of the injustice of interfering between the la bourer and the manner in which he might choose to employ himself, and of interfering with the control exercised by the parent over the child. He felt they ought to be extremely temperate in their reprehension of the labouring classes respecting the employment of their children in various occupations and employments, when they recollected the manner in which those classes were iwhiced, and almost forced to do so. Lord HATITERTON could not support the amend ment, for alt the parts to which he had objected in th Bill had been either removed, or so considerably modified that he felt he had no ground left for opposing the,Bill further. The Earl of GALLOWAY said that in many coal mines women had been prevented from r% orking, and the most beneficial results had followed. The Earl of RADNOR admitted that it would oe desir able- that women and young children should not be em-, ployed in !nine% yet still he thought that it was impro per to legislate on the subject. It was an old practice that was gradually growing into desuetude, and would be got rid of without legislation. The popular fe4ling that had been excited against it, had been on account of the indecency of the thing. These practices were to be put down as they would put down a disorderly house. If they interfered, they must go further than prohibiting the women going into mines—they must prevent the men, women, and children, all sleeping in cue room in the cot tages. The evidence of several clergymen showed that ! these collier women. were not so criminal as the women I employed in factories ; and one ch4.,gyman sail tha mora:s of the coal districts were as g .od as those of the agricultural districts, with the exception of drinking. It l was unwise to take the management of the mules out 011 t he hands et' the owners. The fate of the laws regu lating the linen trade ought to be a warning to the House how they interfered. Early in the reign of George 111., an Act was passed to regulate the linen trade ; that Act had been amended every three or four years since, and now on their Lordships tabl e th ere w as a Bill t o amen d the last of these Acts. The labours of the Commis sioners were not yet finished, and they ought net to legis late. at. all events until the Cournissioni rs should have presented their final Report. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and their Lordship divided on the question of going into Com mittee, when there appeared— Contents Non-Contents 3 Majority in favour of going into Committee —46 Their Lordships then resolved themselves into Coin mitt eon the Bill, To the clause prohibiting females being in mines, Lord CA MPBELL ieoved the addition of the words " fur the purpose of working." Unless some such words were added, , ladies going into a mine out of curiosity, or women going to visit their husbands, who might have wet with accidents, would be liable to penalties. The addition was agreed to. Lord BEAUMONT moved the omission of the clause which enacted that within three months after the passing of the Act, all girls under 18 years of age should coma out of the mines ; that would be throwing them out of employ just a t th commencement of the winter, if it were omitted all the women would come out of the mines together on the Ist of March. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE opposed the omis sion ; if any alteration was made it ought to be to shorten the duration of female labour in mines rather than to lengthen it. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY thought that if the words "six months" were inserted, instead of the words " three months," it would meet the justice of the case. He should propose that as an amendment. The amendment of the Marquis of Londonderry was then put and negatived. Some veroal amendments were then proposed and agreed to, after which Lord Beaumont's motion for the omission of all that part of the clause relating to females under the age of eighteen, was put and negatived with out a division. Lord LYTTELTON proposed, as an amendment, that the Ist of May should. be the day for the wale!' leaving the mines, instead of the Ist of March. It would be a more favourable time of year for the women to leave the mines than the month of March. Although, in the form in which the Bill had first come up, he had entertained serious objections to it, yet, after the alte rations which had been made, he felt he could not oppose it. The Earl of DEVON opposed the amendment. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said it was evi dent to him that it was determined not a day should pass without turning these females adrift. The females would not thank their Lordships tor what they were doing. Lord Lytteiton's amendment was then put and nega tived, without a division. Lord DUNMORE thought it a great defect in the Bill that no compensation was given to the lesseeS of mines, and no means taken to procure employment for these women when they should be taken from the mines. lie would, therefore, suggest that unmarried women, above twenty-one years of age, now at work in mines, might be permitted to continue to work in mines, and he would more an amendment in the clause to that effect. 'The Earl of DEVON could not consent to the amend ment. Lord CAMPBELL said such an amendment would be tantamount to rejecting the clause altogether. He, trusted their Lordships would lose no time in rescuing these females from the degradation in which they were placed. The practice of employing females in mines was, it appeared, as unprofitable as it was immoral. 'The Earl of GALLOWAY said no injury could ac crue to the lessee of the mine, for the rent was paid in proportion to the produce. „. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY supported the amendment. Any change introduc e d oug h t to b e gra d ua l . Lord HATHERTON doubted the right of the Legis lature to prevent any persons of mature years from earn ing their livelihood in any way they might think fit; but that was not the proposition of the Noble Earl, he proposed to give the right to the girl, but to take it away from the widow. Under these circumstances he could not sup port the amendment. The amendment was then negatived without a division. Lord SKELMERSDALE proposed a proviso enabling females above forty years of age, now employed in collieries, to make a declaration of her age, and her desire to be employed in a colliery, before a Magistrate, before the Ist of March next, in which case she might be permitted to be employed in a colliery. Women of that age aho had been engaged for so many years in earning an honest, though a dirty livelihood, were utterly unable to earn a living in any other way, and if they were turned out of the mines, they would starve. The Ear! of .Rl'e'ON felt himself under the necessity of objecting to the proviso. Lord COLCHESTER was sorry to hear that the Noble Earl objected to the amendment. It was very hard to refuse the relief sought to be aiven to this class of persons. The working of these women in mines could nut be objected to on the score of morality. The Earl of MOUNTCASHEL thought the amend ment struck at the principle of the Bill, and should there fore vote against it. The Earl of ELDON supported the amendment. The Marquis of CLANBICAItDE thought the pre sent the most :itvourable opportunity for substitutin g male labour fhr fem a l e lab our i n the mines. The Earl of CLANCARTY thought the declaration required was a sufficient safeguard, and therefore he should vote for the proviso. The Earl of WICKLO W admitted that a stronger case hail been made out for this proviso than had been made out fur any of the previously-proposed alterations, but the proviso militated against the principle of the Bill, and therefore he must oppose it. The Bishop of NORWICH had presented a petition from several operatives out of employment who were de sirous that the Bill might pass, and whet would imme diately set out for the coal mines, in order to be em ployed in the pits. After a few woe's from Lord COLCHESTER, Lord SKELMERSDALE replied. The Committee divided, when there appeared— For the proviso Against it 29 Majority against the proviso —l4 The clause was then agreed to. On the clause regulating the age of children to be em ployed in mines being put, The Earl of •MOUNTCASHEL proposed that the word "twelve" should be substituted for the word "ten," in the clause. Children of ten years old were of too tender an age to be. employed iu mines, and the effect of his amendment would be to prevent children under twelve years or age being employed in mines. Lord LYTTELTON opposed the amendment. The Earl of DEVON would be veer glad that no boys should get down into the inines under twelve years of age, bet knowing chat he did as to the feeling exist ing on the subject, he was not bold enough to support the amendment. Lord HATHERTON said that the coal owners had all been of opinion that nine ought to have been the age, and that the Noble Earl had had great difficulty in getting their consent to ten being the age. The ha' I of GALLOWAY would vote for the original clause rather than jeopardize the Bill ; but he wished thirteen years of age had been insisted on. The Bishop of NORWICH thought the two years from ten to twelve the most valuable of a child's life for the purposes of education, and he regretted exceedingly that thirteen years of age had not been fixed on as the minimue The amendment was then put and negatived without a division, and the clause was agreed to with some ver bal amendments. On the clause relative to the appointment of inspectors beine put, 'the Earl of DEVON said there was no intention of appointing a permanent body of inspectors ; all that was intended was to give the Secretary of State power to ap point an inspector pro hoc vice, as it were, to see wheth er in any particul ar case t h e prov i s i ons of the Act had bee carried one The Marquis of' LONDONDERRY said it was pro posed to inflict the same curse upon the colleries that they had already inflicted upon the factories. He would move, as an amendment, that all the inspectors should report upon should be whether the provisions of the Act were carried out, and that they should have nothing to say as to the state of the mine or the miners. Lord WHARNCLIFFE objected to the clause as it was drawn up, inasmuch as it would give an inspector a right to inquire into matters with which he had no con cern. He would propose to substitute the word " such for " any." confining the power of the Secretary of • State to s , nding an inspector to a celliery against which a coenplaiut inav have been mane ; and he would also propose to confine the authority of the inspector to rv porting as to the state of the mines and the labourers. Lord SKELMERSDALE supported the amendment of Lord WharnclifFe. rlu Gig. I ,t) way, uild The Marquis of LONDONDERRY withdrew his amendment, and the amendment of Lord Wha.neliffe wAs agreed to. The clquse, as amended, was then agreed to. On clause 4 (tne apprenticeship clause' being proposed, The Earl of GALLOWAY expressed his regret that the apprenticeship system had not been entirely abolished. Lord LY rfELTON defended the clause, which NP anytling but favourable to the coalowners of South fordshire. The Sub-Commissioner, Dr. Mitchell, nothing to find fault with in the mines of South " shire, vented all his wrath on the system w ship. but the e,idence did not bear out D' his invectives. JOINT ‘....;rocii: BANKS BILL. The "illt Stock Barks Bill was read a third time. o On .the 'lllF, CHARTIST LECTRERS. motion for reading the Order of the DAY r(lr li g'litig into a Committee of Supply, .dr. T. DUNCOMBE rose to renew the motion a which he had given notice some time ago, and which he had postponed at the request of the Honourable Member for Stafford and the Secret *ry oi' State for the Home Department. The observations of the Right Honourable Baronet on that occasion had been read / with much astonishment and sur b- -, ns interested "he tate of the anding Statiord- apprentice- Mitchell in The Bishop of NORWICH rerf.,;le . -- prise ,y t. perso In t: apprenticeship, c''. ated t -v t• i le s ' S 4.1 n of I -- The trial took place oa the 241 of the prose Lord HAT iERTON said o,t gao A unhappy men who were now suffering in Stafford greatly mi ie.!. N•cbing vontri 1 „. in '. Dr 3fi c !,,..11 1 - 7 1 i . „ , - month, and they were immedi , teiy s: nt to prison. _ Ti'..Ct ;IA int , ... , :ri .1 v. f.,:1- e- :, ~.!,,- ..H.9.,., de.- ': clause had be. .n. ,6 .:vi.-i,..,hy •,,„,.,, ,L, : . '1 ' ""j. ' t ,':•"' ' -:, ~„.._ :,_ l, •,•i t , .. . .... I.V'..` Inc' mini of nor ' l ' V ' f ,,-, -- ‘' ' , .'" ".—..: . •,. : -.,,-,i ,-;:-: ..;' c , ettritot;. o' - ,-. - 1....'„,;;;1:t 1.1011.1 i, 101 .. 1'' p.:,N. He ► w-uld luilvf: that there,- o , 1 4 , € 6 ,V, 1 , ' , ' .'; , ' ,: i . ) . .,- ; : . :1•::; the necesy I. approur.eng boy s t, j • ' -.-- ;.4 .: '''' '. -. 1 1 1 . ,' ii, ~,,,, sure that cv l "'''' ';',' f: , :* l .l' 1 .. , ... Baton , t ;:it'- . instead of eight. . 4 1 been Tile Earl of DEVONT .1. , t have been ignorant, of the reply which 11,. . ‘ sta ' te.i • that he knew notilaig of tlte , 1 - 0 11. , „;cr.... 11, l''' - , - tootidut must - • • ' 1 7 - - (`-ith et • well to aaopt the e;P-,„ sc „ , should j u t accede to it, ' 11 ,.• , the Holote ~-0.•lld ~,,, as ori , r 3 T . il cook! ac •t oppose' th'' ••....nco : , 1'•• 11 , 'use " a h. call Proll 'A'd ; .. 4. t a' Ile sent to the memorial tor.,:arded to the ton: _ should further say, that such :.• elrcum....• elabus bf the South "' 'aped the eta St ill j peareci to }]:Ill Phow '• that trio prese.it Governin o 7 . r i 1. ... e •rd. Lord CAMPBELL sup, slur,- coal•ov ~ r ie,;, ta. :•• which it was Said wa; never to stumble—M."4'er 1 . , . . 5t) ., . into an error—d d not conduct the public bt , _ .., 0 , ,,, e 550l h• The Marquis of LONDONtiERWIT moved that the I The amer),lment gas 1-1;1;1:giver!. ', in any way more accurately than their pre , n , _ _ tic h would not press his motion, but,vould Ile believed that if Lord _N - ormanhy - had fallen I. to s Chairman do report pro;._),Tess.—(C T :: ~ o f.. G„ ~,) He a mistake as that to which he had alluded, they ` l. ,_, Gh h - 1 • • ICodof the reproaches N 11 . 1 ~. rapid legislation. 11 ' o - tested aga inst the ; ::ever ate teal: an Lord RED ;'-' LSDALE prot ' I • b . • v I• h . ' '' 1 • favour of the p 1 Committe , e ..ter wrainst a ant 1 0 tint, a , the Home-office to r e memorial in . _ tin( e at such an earl ' - t t . 0'. 110 eK• I , IC h* NV no stitrielent g- `-' i "timid have been direcced against him. 'file ar.:3Nvi ;it. soners was,tunt •,-"ir . . 2ra am sa The clause ici ameisded hour l-h " half 1 1 )a t s '• rj s th itS Pri l •Y er. Claw,. 5; - • , was the cigve•nr. .... f,:. advic:iro• txr ?dalestv to comply wt . that the , N .V., :,%-i- ea .., t• •• , . • ~ N. ,. ' ` "'" tho M• • ~ ‘, a !er a ~..,/ oo,ers,a :ons ii .. No:ic te filar or LON oNDFRI yf tile )cop Clauses 6 and 7 - 4- '.-1 '. ": 1 case in question in • volved the right o. 1 f discussing Clause 8, f were agree,. to witiaotit °lt ~:ervation. i meet peaceably in public for the purpose o a te' a few observatiot is fro li m led Wham- .010-..,', it nr.Peared to him (My. liancombe) .“re, Lord liuth , :a-ton, Earl of Devon, was apTeed to. The remaining clauses were agreed to, the House.' Vit sumed, and the Report was ordered to be reci:ived.-,;1 morrow. Th e third reading of the Bill was f i xe d o?=',l - Friday. Eft:HEQUER BILLS PREPARATION 131LL:",,,d Ott the motion of the Duke of WELLING-TON tlh Excin:-qt2er Bilis Preparation Bill was read a S'vedri4i. l o7 9 v NATIONAL EDUCATION (IRELAND)''' I I I The Earl of CLANCARTY gave , Inotice.:tildtrur,_ . morrow he should p u t a quest i on to the N o bleDakt i on the subject of N a ti ona l Ed ucat i on i n Ireland. •-' The Bills on the table were forwarded a stage, Y A W. their Lordships adjourned at Eleven o'Clock. bfai HOUSE OF COMMOAS, Ail/ 25. 6ifiC) Tum SPEAKER took the Chair shortly before o'Clock. Mr. CoLounouN took the oaths and his seat for tlO, hotough of Newcastle-under-Lyme. g 4 F MARQUIS O TWEEDDALE'S ESTA.T BILL. • On the motion of Mr. G. DUNCAN, The Marquis of Tweeddale's Estate Bill was re4i a third time, and passed. BIRMINGHAM SCHOOL ESTATE BILL. q.f• Mr. SHEPHERD b roug ht up th e R epor t o f t c :AI - Committee on the Birmingham School Estate •_.;o , MOSTYN'S ESTATE BILL. .IJOU On the motion of Mr. R. HUGHES, The Mostyn's Estate Bill was read a third and passed. •kj.00 911 1 MEDICAL PROFESSION. y, Mr. WYSE presented a petiti on f rom t h e Meal, f ,,V Association cf . Shropshire, prayin g th a t no a lterap might be made in the laps regulating the ii., 0 1-11 profession, until a full i nqu i ry s h a ll h ave been 11.f1W tuted into its present state. SINGING CLASSES. The HoN. MEMB E R also presented a petitiOilOrefl the pupils of Mr. Joseph Mainzer, praying'thao l , l o. any measure the Hou se m i g ht c h oose to a d opt t o ent , courage the practice 'of singing, the - claims of Joseph Mainzer might not be overlooked, and ' gesting the propriety of a piece of ground bei,,',`• given for the purpose of erecting a Hall of Sing l P:); ',- thereon. BRITISH ANTIQUITIES. ,„ • The HON. MEMBER also gave notice that, next 5 1 sion ' he should move an Addr ess t o h er M a j esty, 15r‘ . seething her to be graciously pleased to order the eS...tk.' tablishment of a National Museum for the preserva i lll tion of objects relating to the Antiquities of the Bri-' : 4 tish Islands. IRISH LAW COURTS. •-• 4 Mr. LITTON presented a petition from Mr. A' Bushe, Prothonotary to the Court. of Queen's Bench' Ireland, against the Irish Law Courts Bill, and pra.)" ing to be heard by counsel in opposition to the measure. Mr. BECKETT presented a petition from th! y . bankers and manufact u r ers o f L ee d s , co:np l a i n ing the distress, and praying the house not to separate without adopting some measure for its relief. Mr.•SHEIL presented two petitions from office° of the Court of Common Pleas in Ireland against the J 5 Common Law Courts (I re l an d) Bill. •A Mr. SHEPHERD presented a petition from th e Bath and Bristol M e di ca l A ssoc i a ti on , pray i ng that .f . 4 no measure might be passed by the House, with re spect to Medical Reform, until the whole subject lieu, undergone consideration. Lord ELIOT presented a petition from the makers of Ireland, praying for an amendment of th e law regulating their t ra d e , w ith respec t t o se lli n g and repairing fire-arms. Mr. LITTON gave notice of his intention t° - morrow to move for certain returns relative to bene fices and union curacies. MIDNIGHT SITTINGS. Mr. HUME gave notice that he should to morrow _ • move for a return of th e num b er o f h ours th e Hous e had sat during the present session, distinguishing.. the number of hou rs th e H ouse h a d sat a f te r 'Dm,. night. He intend e d, nex t sess i on , to i n t ro duce measure founded on this return, for the purpose • 5 preventing the t ransac ti on of any business of tlle.:„.:x •• cl House after mid n i g ht.—(H ear, h ear. ) • UNIVERSITY OF LONDON. Mr. G. W. WOOD gave notice of his intention to u."; move for the production of certain corresponden ce l which had taken place between the Government the authorities of the University of London. CHURCH-RATES. Mr.- HUME presented a petition from a Pe' -.-10 named Price, whose go o d s h a d b een se i ze d for n° 4 l9 !t payment of a Church- ra t e , pray i ng t h e H ouse to p 3 :; .05 • law for the abolition o f Church-rate?. altogethel:',el ..INIARSHALSEA COURT, DUBLIN. The HON. MEMBER also presented a petitions;s i n an individual named Hanna, complaining of ah tl .a. r aW- )- 0 ;q the Marshalsea Court, Dublin. He wished 't° the attention of the Noble Lord the Secretary i br ' 129 land to th e p e titi on . 990 11 l j AMERICAN SLAVES IN CANADA-. 0." In answer to a question from Mr. HAWS, , Lord STANLEY s t a t e d th at t h e papers relatiri g, to the giving up of a c o l oure d A mer i can su bj e af t the authorities of the United States by the Canatil #:ll • 9 94" authorities would be laid on the table w ith out d e laY. COMMERCIAL TREATY WITH PORTI.TP . - 1 4 1 Sir R. PEEL laid on the table, by command of her Majesty, the Commercial Treaty entered into tween this- country and Portugal. •lil CHINESE WAR. k, In answer to a question from an Hos. MEMBER, Sir R. PEEL stated that the supplemental esti mate for the expenses of the war in China would be • brought forward this evening. EDUCATION. The RIGHT HONOURABLE BARONET said he would also reply to a question which had been put . • to him the other evening by the Noble Lord (I'fl rnerston) on the subject of the education grant. Th e ,' demands on the funds app ro p r i a t e d t o e d uca tional * • , purposes were so numerous, that he doubted whether • the amount would be capable of mettng them, and an addition to the grant, to the extent of 10,000/., be proposed to meet those demands. He spoke 01 11 Y. of the grant under the control and distribution of ate Committee of the Privy Council. Lord P.ALMERSTON asked whether the midi'. tional grant would include any allowance f or the singing classes cif Mr. Hullah at Exeter Hall ? Sir R. PEEL said it would not, nor was he pre pared to say that any general vote would be proposed for that purpose. He merely proposed the addition to meet the expenses contemplated in the Orders in Council of July, 1840. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE thought the classes of Mr. Mainzer also deserved some encouragement. Sir R. PEEL said it was impossible to attend at Exeter Hall and not derive the greatest satisfaction from the proficiency of the two classes ; but the ques-• tion required some consideration. Mr. DUNCOMBE said if the Right Hon. Baror let attended the classes of Mr. Mainzer, also he belie - ,ea he would derive equal gratification. POOR-LAWS (IRELAND). Mr. O'CONNELL gave notice of his inteAtiont . tO move for a Committee of Inquiry into the %.vorkin g Of the Poor-laws in Ireland. Ale also gave notice that, on going into Committey on the Courts of Law, (Ireland) Bill, he should move that it be comnr,itted that day three months. He also withdrew his motion that Counsel be heard at the bar of the -. Rouse against the Government of Newfonndland Bill. • TRANSPORTATION. Mr. EWART wished to ask a question of the Right Hon. Baronet, the Secretary for the Home - • Department. At the last 'Waterford Assizes, a mall named Nash, had been tried for having returned from • - transportation. He gave a most frightf.al description . of his sufferings in New Holland. He wished ask (and he did so at the desire of many persons - :,; 0 0',, interested in the state of the cr i m i na l law), 3 0 14 .,,cf whether the Right Hon. 13;tronet wtis prepared to con - e,„e sider the subject of som e substitute for the punish ment of transportation ? I ,Aile question saidan was puttl'i.e particular case referied by r t htlTee.g Ge general alGlf.nt t m o io ui h te im u o c % n y n n ld eatohsiiilo; he answer. Speaking for himse'.i; as connected with the administration of the justice ; of the country, he was not prepared to submit air; substitute for the system of transportation as a pun7Ament, •ity. 0 , 74 1 ° (1 1 , • „(1 1 ~~.. pub 4ted th 4 11( vtvenik gon o , 1. ).Y 111 !tich c In g in t itts e onstal 441 c1 w 1