The Sun. — London, England, 1855-05-11 00:00:00

Vg cok RAILWAYS. 'oiIRAILWAY/. Closing Prices yesterday. 19 - 20 4i - ili 84 - 8 14 - 131 14i —15 i 9 8 d 87 - 89 59 - 60.1 7 - 9 ... - .. G - .4 5i - 6 14 - 15 11i - 30 --a 32 20 - 22 71a 72, 51 56' 2d par 16i —18 i ••• ..... .. 67 - 69 89 - 90 74 - 75 123 - 125 92 - 91 64 64i 58 - 60 65 - 70 5- 7 0 5 - 7 761 -76 i 7 7j 98 - 99 98 = 98 d d id 1 80 81 104 • 0 9i 801 23 - 23 7 - 8 69 - 69, 40 - 42 - 9 ARE MARKETS I (THIS DAY.) 6hr. - 2 - 49 ." 28 72 7 d 3i 13 48 —5() par - r - 44-0 - far - 2q, - 100 - 66 - 46 . 60 - 28 - 38 74 11 8 3; - 44 7 - 8 gi : 6.. a - 7if 2i - 2 3i - 2 . i - iI) 2 - 35 - 354. 24 -24 i ' 2 - 91 - 8i 15 - 16 49 —51 d 88 90 2 / -- - 111) t - lip li - 2 21 - 3 19 i - 201 99 - 101 9 9 - 101 103 - 105 1 9 8 • 100 j 20 - 2I 1102 - 105 ••• dik 21 3ip 4 - - fp . 4 i 6 ip li - 2i 51i - 6i ia : ini 13 13& 7 i - 8 i 241 - 25 p 45 47 39 41 ••• 21& 22A 7 d ip 2 lidi 8 2ip ••• pm • 3 --• ••• i 4 ••• d 5 -- 6p ''" . ••• - ... 18 :-- 18i 80 -- 82 i . d :: i - c i 1 id 16i 17i 20 - 1p ... •••• ... .00 .... ... 32 1 - 34 39 - 41. Is. - ... 68 - - 81 ••• "* l tl 124 Aberdeen. ... . li: Az og. Nottng. Bost i June.. 1 and Eastn. 4 1 Belfast & Ball ymena. Binning. Wolverh & !N Stour Valley ...... . Birkenhd. Lancsh. tit Cheshire Janet a Do. Chesil. & Birk., ,9 £5O and i' , 25 Cons. Do.. X 20... -- ..... *.,.,—;i al Rlyth &Tylienrigi— , 4 25 (issd. at .L. 15 ) 1 a) Bristol and Exeter.., )0 Caledonian ~, digan .............. I.B * Ca rmarthen and Car ,[i Chester & Holyhead. 111 Cork and Bandon a 6 Black, di Pass 4 Condwall Ci e Junction Dubli nkßelfastJune D undee Perth dcAb,:i k ' t. an D deen Junction --, New 100 East An g lian O v an East ern Counties wt. (00 Eastern Union, A 1 Stock .. ...• ** 1 tit RIO De '• B, Stock.. St, ~,..8i Do., New A "". tut) East Lancashire ,8,,t. 100 Edinbrirgh& Glasgow ~1 4, all Edinb. and Peebles et 100 Edixt.ptb &Dundee 1 P ° rth & Clyde Jun,. to an P D imness . . c2„,°. ,all o. Extension,. D 5!.... too Glasgow& s. western . 100 Great Northern 04. 100 D .A. Stock w 't. 100 D ° o * . R. Stock 8-;* ~4,,,3° t't..Sth. western --' uti Great Western St . 00 Do. Stour Val. Rail Cua. Stk.. . _... all Irish South -Eastern al l I ncaster Carlisle 19 1; a 0 , Thirds .. _ nnf De . . Nov Thirds -ul Lancash.andYorksh 4 133.1 Wet- Riding Un all do t. q on Loildou & Biackwal 1— 1.,144(1.8right& s.cst. 100 --s•lid and N. Westn. " 50 . 1; ift.hs . ...... 2 boaot.sh.,ii&ii—c , Do. Eighth s .... . Re 1264% London and S. Westn • 1)0•I 460. all L £4O ... . . ‘u Lndudrrydr Coleraine rintil Ludridrry.& Eniaisk. kii T,llaneh.Shef.& Lincln " "0. 4 Shares, No. 1 . 4i D 00,412. :& Lin. lin. ),10 Ridland ...... .! ...... di N. Birmng. SiDerby '", Afidld GI. 'West. (Ire, ) 744 Do. Ralf Shares...... al Newcastle & Carlisle. Ili Nwpt.Aberg. & Hill Newry iskill en and 11 Newr & Enny warrenpoint )0 Norfo lk Ro strevor ....... ........ ... 3 6 No rt ho.6;uniies Un. 10 North British . . ... 11 North Devon, No. 1. al Do., Noe 2n, . . ..... . .... 11 .' i A D e f erred ... 0 1 1 Doo i B Guaranteed D )0 4tera_BerwieK , N. o. do. E x t ension ... •`' B e.t4G 1.1 Do. LX' .N.E.Pnrch.ds ..... )0 Do. Y0rk.. ., ........ ..... 'll North London ........ 0 O. New .£lO . ._.% ...... la .Wstrn.,u.amP. 1 84 .eltd, and City Jn.. A i . i North Staffordshire.. North A Western ...... ",' N. &S. W. Western....... thilleaton,estrn Hinckley.. kl „and Leicester. ....... ••• uxf rd, Worcester, & , 'Wolverhampton .... 10 Portsmouth .... ...... ~,.,N Scottish Central I,' BeottishMidland LIA.) Shroriehire Union onth Devon ''' SO'ath Eastern ,41 South Wales ' 5 si. Yrksh. & Riv. Dun 6 b e .. ............ , 2 iaines,*ok. SzW°' .4 tesi4oll & D a riin 1. 6i tc , ;•,kt,,,, A. HartleP o Taf, Val e s. ' 9 .0. £lO shares. ?,1).„,o. Pref, No. 1 `1 Lilailles liaven Doc \ kkl ItailWay ' Vale Of Neath WatArti- xii;enny \'`Nan rdklai • Nest e,e4tx merle Vittit Eild I;;ZiO . CM ,_Oll, i ...... t i Wicabls,‘,l- ke;;;401; West .1.4(100. a'aee" FORk g I 50 k 20 5° 20 al 10 11 5 0 4, 25 eiAntwerpdtiam ian zeziers t Eastn . June,' Oraissessac Bolubay, Paro Ce ral of I ntaldia .a d, and Central ISerip nty ...... ..... benaerara .... bnteb Rhenish.. ...... ' Eastern of Prance ..• D 0• New .............. East India .. g. 5 P.c. Du. Es:ension . • Do.4i P. c. 'lda. iar '57, convertible ...... Do. ddo., '59, do.. Od Tk of Canada -A-if' ADo. Bt. Lawrence & tlan tic do. .... . ... •cert. of Debe.n., con. into Stk. till '63 1)0.0041p. Ot. Central o f Franc" Ot. Indian Peninsula Ngnar 5 per cent.... . Nevi, 5 per cent. Gr eat 1)o. Eatensions„..... C o Lti zetab°ur2 , nstituted Sh ares uo. Obligations ...... qt.ifraternof Cana(' Bhares .. ........... Do. 13,18., .payable's7, With option till '55.. Do. do , 62, P. '56 — Do. do:, '76, p. '60... I)° ' 40 ., '73, without ~..option .... .. ........ • gansilton Toronto Do. per cent. ...... 141te Con Lite ea . & B as l e Pref.. 4 Pistoia 51)*e. ....... ........ . L 44.,Yeas and Geneva ....yns 4 xediterran bltadraa ................ o. Nev?, .............. kai.,, a Antonia ... • -,!-.)..0. do. New ........ Netutir do Liege with ~, interest) ......... 4Jo. (az Interest)., Dsorthern of Franco— o.2ol, She.late Char- eroi and Erquelinee 31 P . e. & red. at 22i/. d ur. 88 Yrs' hfr o ru 1 Jan. 1854 'O. 20i. 3 p. v Bcle• S'rny.ll.4lArns.Shs.) q orw egian i „tis and Lyn us ...... ,uitto gouda ......... Para and Orleans. Nis and Itoccil -1'14114°34n dr Oherbrg. Itooen andßavre ..... 11,03%1 banish ....... ttoyalSwedish ....... -. ktphre and Meuse... SeiDo, Si p. cent. Prot nde ............... Benthern" of Prance— %. Andrew's and Quebec (A) ......... `Nest Plunders,. .... Do 64 per Cl. Pref... of Prance... Wept, of Switzerland WleSbaden . .- ZealahA • re kl 2 0 N k il 4 li k N . _ . r° 4 TT-s. '4l 2 4 NI ... ank 2 0 4 L ftla e l : 1 2 %lain N. raPany 00 Ch rt — u,, • g a ,,.. l2 Qoricax ' O O 2is of Asia 2 0 20 °01011!,, , f India, 20 18 Con,"°%l ' China . . ...... A4SVI g:otl,l* Lom.rciai, ifth „, 24 ISO 6 An dart. Chart., 4 0 20 Bk. Chart.... 1. 00 10 L ori , 4, ........ (4 3 20 Lon'cit(3 and . ........ Loki" Jo. e °tiay. wit stock to 10 of Z4a.l minster 10 22; rio Engla °vinci tts ttle Ne,c, tt tio al ......... ........ i°o r3rlth Qoelltal Wales, Pl'o;ftio llik I D . .... 24 It 3 ow of Irolanfl NI az ( 1 ..... L.: NJ ~!til°!(1 Akin 'tisti..flia‘..o..... Wif:3l,t rally .. SO 13 31 3 20 111 !t. 26 10 12i §tl 26 25 th, 25 I !t! Si (0 26 41 100 %1 1 . t o 2, Bo I ° l lo /,. 2 0 1 2 0 10 al 10 al tio a' 6o 151 2 ;1 5 1 20 a 10 its. 10 20 1 ' 2o ko 10 0 to 4 7 1 12i 47 48 id 'ald. I RAILWAYS. all Bedford and Bletc h ley ... 100 Buckghamsh. 100 Clydesdale Jc. 24 Col. Stour Vy. Sucl. and Hal. 100 E. Lincoln gr. 6 per cent. all Glas. Barr. & Neils. Direct 100 Do. New...... all Glstr.dt Dn. Fr all Hrtlpl. Dk. & Railway all Hull & Selby all Do. Shares. all Do. d Shares. all Lon.&Greenw all Do. Preference all Lon., Til., &S. 100 Lowestoft gr. 4 per cent. .00 Do. 6 per ct. all Manch. Bxtn. and Matlock all Middlo*bro' & Redear COI Midld.Bradfd, 54 Newmarket Bury Exteu all Northern ' and Easternsp. c. all Do. 6 per ct. all Do. Fixeds p all Prest. & Wyre all Do. A Shrs. A !CO Roysin.&llit. 18 Shef.Roth.and Gooleg.sp.c. all Shrews.&Her. S. Staffordsh. all WearValleygr _6 per cent. 5 I all IDo ~ rlOO Wilts&Gomnt Leasing Company London & N. West. Caledon E. Un. E. C Gt.Nrthn.l Caldonian. IDo nt. Westi (k. New. & Berw. Y. &NM• Do S. Easter' Do Peto &Co. Norfolk IDo L. & N. AV & Stckton & Darlingt. Midland.. Ei Cour E. Count, P 3 Do L. &N.W &Ln&Yl Do Gt Northr Lancashl. Yorksh. T. Brasses M. MClean Stoat. & Darlingt C4tWehtn. MINES. all Agua Fria . all Anglo Austrin. Gold all Anglo Californian 6 Australian all Australian Cordillera all Ave Maria all I Baden (Gd.Dttehy of) all Blamarvon Iron and Coal . 13.5 British Iron 254 Brazilianlmp.(issued at £5 pm.) all Do. Comes & Cniabl 15 Do. St. John Del Rey h Carson's Creek Clarendon Cons. MM Co. of Jamaica all Cobre Copper 1 Colonial Gold all Copper Min. of Eng. all Do. Pref. 7i p. cent 16 Copiapo all English and Austin Copper Smeltg ao 1 Fortuna all General.. all Gt.NuggetVeinßeg all Great Polgooth all Liberty all Linares. 1 Lusitanian all Mariquita .. all New Granada all New Linares Mining and Smelting Co all Nouveau Monde all I Pontgiband Lead Min. & Smelt 1 Port Philip all Quartz Rock all Rhymney Iron all Do. New 1211 Santiago de Cuba...,. all South Australian..... all 74 I United Mexican Tin Croft all 1 Waller all West Mariposa 12s. Worthing Mining of Australia all Yuba 100 Aberdeen 100 Do. N 0.2, 7p. c all Blyth and Tyne 10 per c. pref. (issd. at 500 100 Brie. & Ea. 4p. c. St. 5 Do. 4p. c. Shares 100 Caledonian £lO • all Chester & Holyhead Guar. 5 per cent all Do. do. Pref. No. 2 1 all Do. do. Pref. No. 2 all Cork &Bandons,ip.c all Dun.Prth .&Aber.J 2 E. Anglian Cls. ASh 1100 Do. do. Cls. B 6 p. c. 100 Do. do. Cls. C7p. c. all Eastern Counties Ex- 1 tension,s p. c. No. l al IDo. No. 2 all 'Do. New 6 p. c. St. all East Un., G. 6p. • all Do. 5/.. 10 tier cent all Do. 10/. Dei;entr.Sh all Do. do. 4 per cent 100 East Lancash. 6 p.cts all :13 . &W. York. J. sths all Pd. Prth. &D un.4 p.c all Furnes 1( (31as. &S. W. G. 5 p.c. 100 Great Northn. sp. c. 100 Do. sp. c. Redeem., at 10 p. c. prem 100 Do. 4i p. e 5L Do. 5 p.c. Scrip, Red at 5 if. c. all Gt.N. of Scot. Ist Pref 100 at. S. dr W. (Ireland) 9 Do. 4 per c. Prof. St 6 Gt. Westn. (Berke & Hants Ex. 5 p. c)... 100 Do. con. red. 4} p.c. 100 Do. con. red. 4p. c. 100 Do. irred. 4p.e. all Do. Birm. Pref. Sh.. all Do. Chester Bp. c•P•S: all Do. do. 5 p. c. d 0... 100 Do. Birm. Gua. Stk. all Do. Ches. Gua. Sh.. all Do. do. do ........... . all Do. do. do ... ... •• • • 6 Lan. &York. F. £2O 100 Do. 6p. c. Stock ... 100 Lon. &Brigh. G. 6 p.c. 100 Do. Pref., sp. c. St. 100 Do. New Guar.6 P.C. 100 Do. do. 5 per cent... 100 Lon. &N. W., Coy. di Nuneaton 5 IL et... 5 Lon. &S„ W. C - on.3d: all Londy. & Color. Sh. all Londy. & Ennis. all Man., Shef. , & Lin. New, £lO 4i Do. £6 all Nlarypt .& Carl. 4 p c all Du. 4i per cent 10i Do 100 Aid. Consol.6 p. e. St 100 Do. Consol. Bristol & Birm. 6 per cent 100 Do. 4i p. c. Pref. St Ili Do. Pref. 4i per cent all Do. 5/. Pref. 4 p. c 100 Ditto Leicester and Hitcben Pref. St 10 Norfolk Debenture,, 100 Do. Prof. 4p. c. Stock 100 Do. 5 p. c. Eat 100 Do. 5i per et. pref._ 100 Do. Way. Val. sp. c 100 North British 100 N. E. Berw, 4 p.c. P 5 JDo. do. do 13 Do Leeds 6 p.c t.No 1 9 Da. do. Quarters 4S 10 Do.YorkH.& S. Par. all North Staffordshire.. 100 Oxford,Worcester,Sz Wolverh..£ls, 6 p.c. all Scot. Cent. ,New Prel all South Devon 14 Do. fixed, 4i per cent all S. Eastern (Reading Ann.) of £1 Os. 6d. 100 Do. 4i per cent all S. Wales Gua. 4p. c all Do. do. 4i p. c all S.Yorksh.4p.c.Guar. all Stock. & Dar., sp. c. 15 Do. do. do. all Stock. & Hartl. g. 5 e. till July 1, '56 4 \Yam fd. & Kilk. 6p c 4 - 4 - 6 4 - 6 2i -= 3 ,21 -- 3 31 -- 33 id 54 -- 56 30 -- 40 2d -- par 22 -- 24 if 1 3 / 4 par ip 14x_ 1 6 3 /4 #$ # —lf 7 - 7i - IP - i I - i i 14i -15 i 19 -- 21 5 -- 6 bi -- 64 2 -- 3 - 6 - i PREFERENCE SHARES. 102 - 104 89 - 91 92 -- ii -- 2i - 3i 54 - 6 - 1 P # - P 12 -- 131 58 - 62 lii -- 11 6 108 - 110 100 102 i - ip 6-61 96 -- 98 88 -- SO 90 -- 92 10 -- 11 17 -- 174 10 - 104 72 -- 74 191 -19 i 9$ -- 141 -14 i 1 -- 134 -- X 36 ... ""'" *I.. 2i - 3 p --irk' -12 i i -- ' 134 - 136 91 - 96 1 - 4 - 85 - 87 1.03 - 105 98 - 100 90 - 92 34 - 3i i = la 100 - 102 13 14 id par 22i 23 97 99 15 -..17 1 -2 p ... 2i — 2 id MISCELLANEOUS. 17i Australian Agricult. all Aus.;raln. Royal Mail 7 Berlin Water Works 40 Brit. American Laud 1 Brit. 6; Coln. Smeltg. and Reduction Co.. 32i Canada 100 Canada Gov. 6p. ct Jan. and July all Crystal Palace.. 4 Do. Preference all Crystal Pal. of France Duston Tron Ore 8i Eastern Steam 22 Electric Telegraph all Electric Teleg. of Ir a l l 4 l G G e e n n e . r S a t l e s a c na re N w a s v t i e g a a m t 10 Irish Beetroot Sugar 10 Magdalena St. Navig. all Mediteran. Elec. Tel. 9 Mexican&S.A.mericn. 2i Do. New all Nat. Pat. Steam Fuel 5 Netherlands Land 1 N. S. W. Coal & Inter Steam Navigat. Co all N. R. Australasian 15 Nrth.aEuropeSt3am all Peel Rr. 141. & all Peninsular& Oriental 10 Do. New,,,,,,,,,,,,, all Portland Iron Co 60 Royal Mail Steam all Scot. Austral. Invest Ditto New.,., all South Austral. Land all Submar. Tel. Scrip. all Do. Registered.,., 5 trust& L. C0.1.T. Can; Pau ..• 28 - 30 ••• '3i 3d 110 - 115 109 - 109. 31 1 - 31 so, 16 - ••• ...- 6 - 7 .•• - " •••• •• 1 59 - 6 ' 11 -1: 10 -1, 68 - - 1 A - 36 - 3 - 1 - Business done St, this day. St mam.m .••••••=l...lllM. 25 89i 90 1241 61 ii I 76ff 1 20 7/ 98/ 30 98 20 1 1 81 I 40 231 4 1 5 691 g 1 1 1 St. 5 St. 20 dis St. 7 i I St. 12. Pm St. 20 50 60 1/ 12; 20 10 100 I 81 6 11, 1Z 12 Silverl TirE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVEN' IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS—(YESTERDAY.) The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack at five o'clock. UNION OF CONTIGUOUS BENEFICES IN CITIES BILL. The Bishop of LONDON proposed the second read ing of this Bill. Lord CAMPBELL presented two petitions from Worcester, in i.favour of the legalisation of marriage with a deceased wife's sister. The noble lord stated he did not agree with the prayer of the petitioners. Earl FITZHARDING presented petitions from Gloucestershire against church rates. Lord BERNERS presented petitions from Somerset shire, and other counties in England, against the May nooth grant. same causes that delayed the other bills operated also with regard to it. (Hear.) THE CANDIA TRANSPORT. Mr. MOODY asked the Under-Secretary for War the cause of the detention of the Caudle, and whether demurrage was to be paid, and, if any, to what amount per day, and from what date for such detention; also, whether any special report as to her sea-worthiness had been recently made, that the lives of those sent out in her might not be endangered. Mr. F. PEEL said that, according to the information he had received, the detention of the vessel was caused by an opinion expressed by the officers at Woolwich un favourable to the manner in which she had been fitted up. In consequence of that opinion, the members of the transport board inspected the vessel, and satisfied themselves that there was no ground for apprehension on that score, and accordingly the vessel had proceeded to sea, after a detention of four or five days only. No demurrage had been paid, as the vessel was a hired one. THE CANTERBURY DUEL. In reply to Mr. 0. STANL , IY, TI-. F. PEEL said he believed an investigation was now being made into the circumstances attending the late tran, , actions at Canterbury, and the hostile meeting, or " mock duel," as it had been termed, between two officers of the Enniskillen Dragoons. As he had, how ever, no intimation that the hon. member would put snob a question to-day, and was consequently not pre pared to answer it satisfactorily, he would beg its post ponement until to-morrow. Mr. STANLEY said he would renew the question to morrow. THE VIENNA NEGOTIATIONS. Mr. BRIGHT said he wished to ale the noble lord at the head of the Government a question arising out of the protocols which had been laid upon the table of the house. He observed in the last protocol that there was a passage which gave the opinion of the Austrian Go vernment with regard to the Russian propositions for pace. The Austrian minister stated that the propositions seemed to him to admit of a practical application, that it admitted, at all events, of discussion, and contained all the elements out of which Austria would endeavour to offer something which might lead to a settlement of the question now at issue. He wished to ask the noble lord whether Austria had submitted any proposition since the 26th April, which was the date of the last pro tocol, and whether he would be able to lay that proposi tion before the house as distinctly as the other propositions had been laid / He should like also to ask whether any other proposition—and there was a strong rumour of one having coma from Paris—had been received ; and further, if they were to understand that the nego tiations were formally closed ? He did so, because he should not like to bring forward any motion relative to the negotiations if he thought they were not absolutely terminated. (Hear, hear.) Lord PALMERSTON said there had been no formal or written proposal from Austria of the nature alluded to by the hon. gentleman. Verbal communications had passed between the representatives of the Austrian Go vernment and those of the English and French Govern. ments, and also between the representatives of the French and English Governments; but he was sure the hon, gentleman would perceive that in the relations subsisting between the two Governments it would not be at all advantageous to give a detailed explanation with regard to them. With respect to the question as to the nego tiations being entirely broken off, his answer would be similar to that he had given on a former occasion— namely, that there were the elements of a Conference still at Vienn a , in the persons of the Ministers of Britain, F rance , Austria, and Turkey, and there fore, if at a n y time propositions should be made by Russia directly, or by Austria on her behalf, which appeared to alter the state of affairs, or to offer a fair prospect of bringing the negotiations to a successful termination—there were the means and elements for receiving them still at Vienna. Mr. BRIGHT wished to know whether the house was to understand that the matter was in such a condition that any motion with regard to those negotiations, and the fullest discussion of them would not be opposed by the Government as prejudicial to the public service. Lord PALMERSTON said the hon. gentleman must use his own discretion with regard to that point. If his (Lord Palmerston's) opinion was asked, he did not think any public advantage would arise, but he could imagine that certain inconvenience might result from the Government being compelled in the present state of things to enter into a detailed discussion upon what had passed. That was his own opinion, but he did not presume to dictate to the hon. gentleman. Lord J. RUSSELL gave notice on the part of her Majesty's Government that it was his intention to in troduce two bills with reference to the constitution, &c., of Australia. Mr. DISRAELI asked the noble lord at the head of her Majesty's Government if he understood the noble lord to say that the business of the house would com mence to-morrow with the adjourned debate on the newspaper stamp, and the financial measures after Lord PALMERSTON—Yes. THE INDIAN ARMY. Sir E. PERRY rose to move, in pursuance of notice, for a select committee to consider and inquire how the army of India may be made most available for the war in Europe, and to inquire into the steps necessary to be taken if it should be deemed expedient to constitute the army of the East India Company a royal army. He said he had now to bring forward a motion which had stood on the paper for some weeks, and which the noble lord at the head of the Government had thought of sufficient public interest to warrant his allowing him to bring it on in preference to the Government orders. As the motion had been in some degree changed in its terms, he thought it desirable that he should state, before he proceeded to speak of its merits, what the motion actually was. His object being essen tially inquiry, he had asked several members of the house what they considered the best method of obtaining an impartial inquiry into the facts of the case, and he found them unanimously of opinion, that for that pur pose there was nothing to be compared to the appoint ment of a select committee. He was also informed that his subject being a military one, it would conduce to his success to ask for a royal commission. He framed his mo tion in accordance with that view ; but when he came down to the house on the evening on which the subject was fixed for discussion, he found that her lifajesty's Go vernment were about t o oppose his motion, on the ground that what he asked for was a royal commission, and not the more constitutional tribunal of a select committee of that house. Accordingly, he re-changed the motion to its original state, and he was confirmed in his opinion that that was the best course, by the fact that the hon. and gallant member for Westminster, who wou ld secon d his motion thatevening , considered that the royal comm i ss i o n which had sat upon the army had proved utterly inadequate to the purposes in view. He ought perhaps to apologise to the house for introducing a subject which might perhaps in many re spects have been more adequately treated by a military man ' • but his excuse f or d o i ng so was that in India he had had opportunities of becoming practically ac quainted with the civil and military organisation of the country. He assured the h ouse that he had no other oh ject than that of developing the resources of the empire , and strengthening the relations between England and In dia. He regarded the subject as one which was at the present time peculiarly fit for inquiry. Even the answers which they had heard that night to the questions put by the hon. member for Manchester, confirmed him in the impression that it became them all to brace up their minds for a struggle from which it was impossible for them to withdraw without disgrace. If this war was to last— and that it would last was a possibility which everybody was contemplating—he affirmed boldly that they must look to the Indian army for reinforcements. It was obvious that India was a country which had great military resources • and unless the difficulties which presented themselves were insuperable, they ought to be employed in an emergency like the present. If the house would allow him, he would enter into some details as to the strength of the Indian army, and as to its organisation and efficiency ; and he could assure .the house that such details were by no means within the reach of superficial inquirers. Even now, al though he had given his best attention to the subject for many weeks past, he was not in a position to give an accu rate statement as to the total military force of India. The 1 late Sir Charles Napier, soon after accepting the post of Commander-in-Chief in India, endeavoured to ascertain what was the amount of force placed under his command, and he (Sir E. Perry) heard him state that, after having summed up the force to the amount of .400,000 men, he found that there were still troops to be enumerated, and gave up the task in despair. During the last few weeks he had moved for a return with the view of obtaining accurate information, but that return did not supply all the facts which he desired to lay before the house. He had gone, therefore, to Parliamentary returns which contained in formation here and there on this subject, and he would now give as complete a statement as he could as to what the military force at the disposal of the East I n di a C ompany really was. Taking the last return, which was laid before the committee on Indian affairs in 1853, he found that the Indian army, including the Queen's troops in the pay of the East Indian Company, amounted to 289,529 men. This force included about 30,000 Europeans in the service of the Queen, and 20,000 in the service of the E as t I n di a Company. The contingents supplied by native princes raised the total to 349,000 men ; and including 35 batta lions of militia, and other forces, the result at which he arrived was, that there were altogether 457,000 men, and ; so thati the num ber officers, who were maintained at the expense of 20,596,000 L This exceeded the number and expense of I exceeded that of the French army in 1852. In that year the army of France men, while the excess numbered 377,000 men, and 19,601 officers, who were - chief, and a separate th e eF maintained ,retnhceh la a nr t t ay n n e ba x yr p mn e n ye s a e ra t.oyf that2 c , 3 3l oo o to , OCi time ec e hr g -i g i- el iefd chief of thenf her Majesty's of cost was 8,000,000/. It is well known that the army in India was divided into three distinct arms, each arm y principle of the the C ompany ' s attention of the y the house to the remark which ho was about to make, as regimentsah'traanhaving wasaT ae i p e a a l also iniedr a a a . a i d co mmander-in-chief a- commander-in eiPndb- Government of India. The large army Was placed entirely it would show what was the fundamental under the control of the civil power; the Governor-Gene ral was supreme over it; all its movements rested exclu sively with him ; and, as the late Sir Charles Napier forci bly observed, the Commander-in-Chief in India was no thing more than a monstrous rdjutant-general. The house would observe here an embodiment of the principle which distinguished the governments of modern from those of ancient times—the principle, namely, that the army should be subservient to the civil authority in the State. Re had now to touch upon the efficiency of the army which he had described ; and in order to guard himself against the p re sumption of attempting to speak on a military topic ik that, he trusted the house would allow him to read some i m e short extracts which he had culled from Parliamentaryse documents, and at the same time to state that he had been esreful to select the opinions only of _men _connected. with her Majesty's service. The first extract which he read was from a speech delivered in 1813 by themshould Wellesl e y i n th e Ho use o f Lords i The army arquim rested too much on the footing of profit, without n India reference to honours at home. An army more full than th India, of honour, loyalty, and valour, h e had earmy in never seen, and ho could not have conceived that it would authority h ave b ecome o th erw i se . 314 it any did hap pen, somehow or other, that the officers of the army in In dia were not held forward to public vies. as much as other -officers in Other parts of the world, and they felt .that ho nour...and. iliinctiones-vrerGconferretlioisei.,,i not more ;U014%10118 pr ialportut Quit 11104 viva igra or wore de: SECOND READINGS. The Birmingham Water Bill and the Jedburgh Rail. way Bill were severally read a second time. The Rotherham Gas Bill was read a third time and passed. THE VIENNA CONFERENCE. Earl GREY gave notice that, on Monday week, he should mov e an humble address he presented to her Ma jesty; thanking her Majesty fsn' having ordered the pro tocols and other papers connected with the recent con feren,.e at Vienna to be laid before them, and to inform her Majesty that they deeply deplore the failures of the attempt, by those negotiations, to bring the war to a happy conclusion, and to express their lordships' opinion that the proposals made on the part of Russia were of such a nature as might have been acceded to by the other powers concerned, as tending to lead to the object for which arms were originally taken up. (Hear, hear.) AFFIRMATIONS (SCOTLAND) BILL. On the motion of Lord CAMPBELL their lordships went into committee on this bill. The Earl of WICKLOW complained that the pro visions of this bill did not extend to Ireland. The bill passed through committee. FISHERIES (BRITISH ISLANDS AND FRANCE) BILL. Lord STANLEY of ALDERLEY moved the second reading of this bill, the object of which was to enforce more closely the provisions of a treaty entered into with France by this country in 1849 in reference to fisheries. THE SEBASTOPOL COMMITTEE. A message was brought up by Mr. ROEBUCK, and other members of the committee, asking permission for the attendance of the Earl of Aberdeen. The LORD CHANCELLOR said their lordships would send an answer by a messenger of their own. The Earl of WICKLOW said he would not oppose the second reading of this bill, but he hoped that the progress of it would be delayed In order that the fish ermen and fishmongers of England might have an op portunity of presenting petitions against the bill. . . . After a few words fioin the Earl of MALMESBURY and Lord CAMPBELL, _ _ The bill was read a second time. TRANSFER OF CHURCH PATRONAGE. The Earl of HARROWBY moved the second read ing of this bill, which was one to allow patronage to be disposed of in order to augment small livings and to facilitate the transfer of Church property generally. A short discussion, in which Lord REDESDALE and the Bishop of OXFORD took part, ensued, and the bill was read a second time. INCOME TAX BILL. On the motion of Lord STANLEY of ALDERLEY ,his bill was read a third time and passed. LAND IMPROVEMENT COMPANIES. The Earl of SALISBURY moved for a select com mittee to consider whether it would not be desirable that the powers now vested in the companies for the im• provement of land should be made a subject of general regulation. Agreed to. Leave was then given to the Earl of Aberdeen to attand the Committee on the Army before Sebastopol. Their lordships then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS-YESTERDAY. The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock. The following bills wero read a third time and passed: —Folkestone Improvement, Hyde Gas (No. 3), Liver pool Corporation Water ; Londonderry Improvement, Newcaste-under-Lyme Gas, and Paisley Burgh Bills. The Limerick and Castleconnell Railway Bill was considered, and ordered to be read a third time. PETITIONS. Petitions were presented by Sir J. WALBSSLEY, from various places in Leicestershire, in favour of the Mar riages Bill, against the . Maynooth grant, and for the abolition of church rates ; by Sir STAFFORD NORTHCOTE, several petitions from Dudley against the Sunday Beer Bill, and in favour of the abolition of church rates ; by Mr. ROEBUCK, from Sheffield, in favour of Sir J. Pak ington's Education Bill ; by Mr. MIALL, a number of petitions from various places, praying for the abolition of church rates ; by Mr. ELLICE, from the Liverpool Improvement Society, praying for the further extension of education ; by Mr. BRIGHT, several petitions from Rochdale and other places in Yorkshire, in favour of closing public-houses on Sundays, and for the abolition of church rates ; by Mr. PHINN, from Bath, in favour of the Marriage Bill. PATENTS FOR INVENTIONS. Sir J. SHELLEY moved for a return of the names and addresses of all persons who had petitioned the Lord Chancellor to extend the time limited for proceed ing with their patents by the rules and regulations of the Commissioners of Patents for Inventions, stating whether no order, or any and what order was made in each case. The return was ordered. MAYOR'S CO URT, BIRMINGHAM. On the motion of Mr. CRA.UFURD a return was ordered of the number of causes entered in the Mayor's Court, Birmingham, and the total amount of money sued for, in each of the years 1852, 1853, and 1854 re spectively, distinguishing in each year the number of causes entered for sums above 201. THE SHIP OSTGEE. Sir G. B. PECHELL asked the First Lord of the Admiralty if his attention had been called to the case of the ship Ostgee, seized by her Majesty's ship Alban, for breach of blockade, and restored without costs by de cree of the Admiralty Court, but on appeal, costs and damages were awarded against the captain of the Alban ; and inquired if the officers of her Majesty's ships, under such circumstances, were to be held responsible for such expenses I • Sir C. WOOD replied no application had yet been made to him by -the parties, and until that was done he had rather not enter into the question. CHAPLAINS FOR THE NAVAL BRIGADE. In reply to thetlarquis of BLANDFORD, Sir C. WOOD said he had stated on a former occa sion that an arrangement had been made with the Ad miral in the Black Sea, to provide a chaplain for the naval brigade if he should consider it desirable. He bad not heard whether any steps had been taken with that view. THE UNITED STATES AND PARIS INDUS. TRIAL EXHIBITIONS. Mr. HEADLAM asked the Vice-President of the Board of Trade, whether any correspondence had taken place concerning the return duty free of articles sent to the Exhibition in the United States ; and whether he could state what arrangements had been made with the French Government concerning the transmission and re turn of articles sent to tho Exhibition at Paris? Mr. BOTJVERIE said, with respect to the New York Exhibition, the Government had never undertaken any responsibility with regard to the transmission of articles, and knew nothing of the goods sent there. With respect to the Paris Exhibition the arrangement made was this : —There were two classes of articles exhibited there con nected with industry, - and those associated with the fine arts. The arrangement relative to the former was that the exhibitors should deposit them at some wharf in the city, and the Government then undertook to con vey them to the French frontier ; whence the French Government had guaranteed to convey them safely to France. The arrangement for the return would, of course, be the converse. The arrangement in regard to fine arts was similar, the only difference being that the Government undertook, in the latter case, all risk of conveyance. In reference to industrial articles the risk was undertaken by the exhibitors. VICTORIA PARK. In reply to Mr. BUTLER, Sir W.'MOLESWORTH said the Government usu ally, in cases of public parks, purchased more land than was required for the area of the park, and that had been dons in the case of Victoria as well as the other parks. THE ALDERSHOT ENCAMPMENT. In reply to Mr. BELLEW, Mr. PEEL said it was not intended to keep the troops in huts at Aldershot during the winter, but pre parations were being made to procure houses as barracks for them. LORD DUNDONALD'S PLANS. In reply to Mr. FRENCH, Lord PALMERSTON said the subject of Lord Dun donald's plans was at present under the consideration of scientific men, but he thought it advisable not to enter into the subject at present. In reply to Sir J. PAKINGTON, The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said with respect to Church discipline, which at present was a subject of great reproach, a bill on that subject was prepared by him, or at least under his direction, at the same time as the Testamentary Jurisdiction Bill. When the bill was introduced it had not been submitted to the Go vernment. It had since been submitted to them, and they thought it right that the opinion of the right rev. prelates should be had on it. It had been submitted to them accordingly, and they bad not yet returned it; but he could state the bill was prepared on the principle of treating the Churches of England and Ireland as one Church, and he was not aware of any other legal prin ciple on which it could be framed. (Bear, hear.) With regard to the time for the introduction of the bill, the house would see it was impossible for him to say when it could be brought in. It could not be brought in be fore the second reading of the Testamentary Jtsirisdic- - tion Bill, seeing they were in the Middle of an adjourned debate on that bill. But he hoped it would be brought in before the third reading of the latter bill. The Government had not the slightest intention of abandoning the Tes tamentary Jurisdiction Bill. It was impossible they could have the second reading of that bill to-morrow, but certainly they should have it on the first opportunity when the more pressing business of Government would allow. (Hear.) With regard to the IVlatrimonial Di- , 'VOre6 1:11, it had been prepaied in time for the secon,cq . ratcliag 01 th e WebtoaeutekY JurOtik*a Baba the _ olnsin2 Prices' yesterday. 96 - 98 96 - 98 133 - 135 os - ios 12i -- 13 23 -- 24 114 -11 i 23 - 23 ••• - ••• 92 - 94 ip par 57 59 iio := ii •.• ••• 7A 8i gi —24 d 31? - 32 88 89 ... i Baqiness this day. 109 8a 16f 17 NG, MAY 11, 1855. nied to them." And, a little later, he said :—" He had had great opportunities of trying them (the Indian army) un der great difficulties and privations, at a distance from their homes and families, and yet their zeal and energy never abated. In the wars of Mysore and Egypt, the native troops did not hesitate to embark in ships, al though that was contrary to their usages and preju dices ; and the reason that they so cordially consented to embark was from seeing that there was no compulsion. He would now cite the opinion of that gallant officer to whom he had already referred—the late Sir C. Napier. He ought to observe that that gallant officer went out to India with the strongest prejudice against the East India Com pany and everything connected with it, and unfortunately he committed himself to print; but, after having served in several campaigns with the Indian army, and gained for himself immortal honours by the victories obtained while he was at their head, this was the opinion which he gave: —" My opinion of the army generally is, that it is a very fine army. The Indian artillery I really think is tho most effective artillery in the world. Its practice is admirable. I have seen a good deal of it. The Royal Artillery may be superior as a scientific corps; but as a practical corps in the field, in creasing mountains, jingles, rivers, and in every thing that artillery can be called upon to do in the field. I never saw anything better than the Indian Artillery." Lord Gough said on the same subject:—" I think the In dian army is nearly perfect. . . There cannot bo an army more loyal, better disposed, or more ready to do their duty. It is quite impossible to have a more brilliant set of offi cers, or a finer body of men than the Artillery of Bengal. . . . I must say of the natives, as well as the Euro peans, that a more devoted set of men cannot be found." Then with regard to the Bombay army, his gallant friend Sir Willoughby Cotton had often said to him substantially in private what he thus expressed before a committee : "I do not conceive that there is a more effective army, certainly not in India, and I think I may say not any where, than the Bombay army; they will go anywhere ; they never make an objection to embark to any place ; wherever you may require a contingent to-morrow, you can send whatever number of them you please. If they are alone they fight well, but if they are mixed with European troops I think they are fully equal to any in the world." Again, his gallant colleague (Sir G. Berkeley), on being questioned as to what he thought of the Madras army, said he thought it very good indeed. What was the opinion of Lord Gough with regard to the medical stag of the Indian army ? His lordship said—" It was my fortune to serve during the whole almost of the Peninsular war, and I have served through several campaigns in India, but in the Puujaub campaign I do not think that at any one period there was a wounded man without his dooley (litter), nor wanting any comfort it was possible to give hi m ." Then, again, in reference to the commissariat, Lord Gough bore this important testimony. He said that " during the Mahratta campaign and the Sutlej campaign, the army under my command was never one day without its regular provisions." He was quite ready to admit that at length an effort in the right direction had been made by the organisa tion of a land transport corps, under the command of a most gallant soldier—one who would, no doubt, justify the high reputation which he had heretofore obtained. There was also an attempt about to be made—he trusted that it would be a successful one—to raise a Turkish contingent, and to officer it with Indian soldiers. Ce r t a inly, if due discrimination had been displayed in this matter, the ser• vices of men who had distinguished themselves in every field in India for the last twenty years might have been secured. But, by the infelicity of the steps which her Majesty's Government had taken, they had failed to avail themselves of the services of the men whom all India would have pointed out as the most efficient. He stated this without the intention of casting any disparagement upon the officers who had been induced to enter upon the service of organ ising and commanding that contingent. But truth and the great interests at stake demanded that he should state that none of them were of that eminence which the occa sion demanded—none bore names known in Indian story. What was the case when he referred to men whose names were not amongst those officers ? When he mentioned the name of General Patrick Grant, he mentioned the name of one who —if parliamentary precedent and the rules of party did not prevent it—would be the man to fill at the present time the post of Minister of War ' • one who was versed in the con d uc t o f mili tary matters, and who was capable of taking the conduct of the affairs of our armies at the present juncture. Yet this gentleman was unemployed. There was also Captain Hodgson, of whom Sir C. Napier had spoken in, the highest terms. There was also Brigadier- General Mayne, whom, as the house well knew, Govern ment had not been able to persuade to take a subordinate command. Now, non-employment of men of that kind was a national calamity. In complaining that no use had been made of the Indian army, it was essential that he should point out what use might have been made of it. After much attention to the subject, and many communi cations with military men upon the subject, he had not the slightest doubt that under proper arrangement a Euro pean force of from 20,000 to 25,000 men, forming a com plete corps d'arntee, might be despatched from India to the Crimea. He was also informed by many of the highest authorities that it was possible that a large army might be despatched through th e va ll e y o f the Euphrates, so as to form a junction with troops in Georgia. No one could have studied Indiani history without knowing that a body of 25,000 cavalry would be of the most essential service in such a campaign a; that in which we were now engaged. The warfare in the Crimea was in some of its phases not unlike an Indian war. There were the same difficulties of trans- port—the same difficultie;of — PrO;l;iOniTg: --- ke(girE. Perry) had known cases in India in which men had carried with them sufficient for ten - Clays: Hence an army from India would be most useful in the present state of things in the Crimea. It was too latd to think of such a thing for the present campaign, as the rainy season had set in. But, in time for the next campaign, men might be de spatched from the different ports of India to a convenient place of rendezvous, whence they might proceed to the seat of war. That such a plan was perfectly feasible was proved by the fact of two regiments having already found their way from India. He (Sir E. Perry) had a doubt that it would be said by those who entertsinei a different view from himself, that it was very easy for him to get up in his place and state vague generalities, and he could not but admit that the very nature of the subject obliged him to be somewhat general. It would also, he doubted not, he said that it would not be safe to denude India of English troops. It was well known that objection had been made by Lord Dalhousie to the withdrawal of a single man excepting cavalry regiments. The opinion which Lord Dalhousie had upon this question might or might not ho correct—he (Sir E. Perry) had no means of ascertaining the fact. But supposing it to be a correct view of the matter, the plan which he would suggest was this, that the freshly raised regiments should be sent out to India to replace those withdrawn for service is the Crimea. This, as it seemed to him, would be farbetter than the systcrn which now prevailed of sending out raw recruits, most of whom were inere•boys, to almost certain death from unaccustomed hardships. There was another objection which might be urged, viz., the difficulty of settling in a mixed corps d'armee the rel t tions of the officers amongst themselves. It had been thought by some hon. members and out of doors, that a late order had put an end to all difficulty on this question. He thought, however, that such was not the effect of that me morandum. It would be in the recollection of some hon. members that he had a few evenings since taken the oppor tunity of putting a question to the President of the Board of Control upon this matter. From the answer of the right hon. gentleman he had inferred that the memorandum in question, emanating from her Majesty, meant nothing more than upon its face it purported to mean, and that its only effect, therefore, was to give to Indian officers an honorary distinction all over that rank which they bore in India. This was the whole and sole effect of that memorandum. It was plain, therefore, that no liberty to command, except in India, was conferred upon Indian officers, and hence, if those 'officers were employed with Queen's troops, they might be told, as in the time of- Abercromby, that they had no right to give orders. Even if the reading which he put upon this memorandum were incorrect, still it fell far short of what the exigencies of the times and of the service demanded. The British army at this moment consisted of about 460,000 men, with upwards of 10,01:10 officers. Th e St a t e requ i red that this large army should be made as efficient as any army in the world. Our officers, whether Queen's or Compa,ny's, were, as a body and upon the whole, superior to those of any other nation. But in some things these officers were not to be compared with those of foreign nations. He required in thisbranch of the service, as an admi n i s t ra ti ve re f ormer required in other branches, that the best men should be found to fill the highest pests. At the present moment there were several important military questions waiting for settlement. There were the questions of promotion, of recruiting, of military education, of training, and of pay. All of these re quired the greatest consideration from military and professional persons. Any measures which might be taken with reference to these matters could only be satis factory if the whole army were dealt with ; and in fact, according to the opinion of the best military authorities upon the matter, no satisfactory reformation could be effected in these matters, unless a complete amalgamation took place of the Queen's and Company's services. It was not only in a British point of view that this change was important—it was no less required for the benefit of India. He had no hesitation in affirming that in India the military and civil forces did not—to use 'a French expression— " function" well ; in order to this it was necessary that the army in India should be a royal army, under the con trol, as at present, of the supreme government of India. There was also another important question upon which he felt it his duty to touch, although it was a delicate one, for he had known much good arise from the mention of such things in Parliament. He affirmed that there was some thing unsafe in the mode in which our military force in India was constituted. A large number of officers were at out-stations, far from the control of public opinion. Nor was this all ; we had had mutinies in the army itself—a spirit of disaffection had prevailed for years. It was the part of a wise statesman not to shrink from grave facts like these, but to look them fairly in the face, and, if possible devise a remedy by which they might be met. He believed that if the Indian army were a royal army much of this disaffection would disappear in the allegiance and loyalty which were inatural. .to..the pottition of royal troops. Hon. members would see that he had no desire to exalt the Company's army at the expense of the Queen's. In deed he believed that, as a whole, the latter would be en titled to rank higher than the former. He needed only name Lawrence, Clive, Wellesley, Lord Lake, and last, but not least, Naples., to prove this position. There were no names in the Indian artily to vie with those which he had just mentioned. Indeed, to make the Indi a n wh a t the _royal force was, it s h ou l d be bound as closely as pos sible to the mother country. He would say, bind the Indian army as closely to us as might be, and, following the example which th e F rench in Algeria had set us with regard to their army, make it gradually as national in its character as possible. So far he had traced the bene fits of the proposed change as regarded the State ; he would now consider it in relation to the soldier himself. Viewing the matter in this light, he thought that the proposed change would be a d van t ageous b o th t o th e Queen and th Company's men. The Queen's forces would have opened to them not only those staff ap pointments which were so numerous in India, but also several civil and political poets, which were now, from the exigencies of . lndian service, often filled by military men. The officers of the Company would also be benefited. They would have the advantage of an increased field of military exertion, as well as th e prospec t o f hi g h er m ilitary reward than they co u ld a t present atta i n. I n a ddition to honourtliey would have the hon our o f serv ing the Queen —an with which, as ev er y one k new , h a d gr eat influence mili tary men. He could not help thinking that it was perfectly ridiculous that the great advantage w hi c h would arise from this fact alone should be lost to the State.srGe:Tpshreal may hon. ue gen tleman here read a letter Brigadier-General Who Mid - iieled.as and another from a native gentleman__d Sir Charles Napier, interpreter td Sir W. Go:l:n: 3. ms There was a question, in confirmation of f wi l t i l i i s this subject to which he w t od s d , closely It was Indian content of the, royal and oonnected imself with briefly adverting. whether the amalgamation armies should be . complete,. orwthhethfoerrsetsheoflnthdieaenmaprimrey, should be a distinct portion of o _The latter was the view of Lord Grenvill!.. ,Of course this spas orstshola for the consideration of military, ; bitt- ' Illare - was objeCtioatO totals of Lord t it '‘l would tendloanate the n Fink a mere 404 4 b o d y , ea dtimpadult• mew' s of Such • state of things would, he thought, degrade the dignity and lower the efficiency of the Indian troops. Of course, if the plan which he then advocated were approved by that house it would require to be gradually introduced and the changes should be made with consideration and care. He did not wish to disguise from the house that the principle of the plan which ho had ventured to bring forward was no new thing. It had been brought forward by Lord Grenville in 1813, in one of the most effective statements which had ever been made within the walls of parliament. Many of the changes foretold in that speech have since come to pass as actual facts. Amongst other matters, Lord Grenville went fully into the question of the amalgamation of the Indian army with that of the Queen's, and gave it as his opinion that such an amalgamation ought to take place. But there was another authority yet stronger on the point. Lord I Grenville was not a military man, and he had never been in India. But he (Sir E. Perry) would next cite the opin ion of a man who had been in India, and who was acquaint. to England round th e C ape, in 1794, ed with military affairs. L or d C ornwallis, on his return applied himself for months to the consideration of the constitution of the Indian army, and to the best mode of snaking it available for the purposes of the state. It came to the knowledge of the Board of Control that Lord Cornwallis lied cOnsq elered the matter ; and, upon his arrival in England, Sir G. Dundas wrote to him to know what were the details of his plan. Upon that Lord C ornwa l lis proposed a west' elaborate scheme, at the same time expressing his opinion that no scheme could be permanently usefbueltour,unless, as a preliminary measure, th e whole of our, force in India was transferred to the r o y a l service, to conducted for the future on the principles which regu lated the royal army. At the same time, Lord Cure waffle said, it was to be clearly uuderstood that all his Majesty's troops serving in India were to be perfectly sub. ordinate to the company's government, and to receive their orders through the court of directors. To carry on this thread of authorities, to show how Parliament up to the present time had dealt with the question, he would roe,' the opinions which had been given since 1794. In 1813 , Lord Grenville mad e hi s grea t speech on the subject, and the company presented an able minute protesting against the change then proposed, on th e groun d that if their army were incorporated with the Queen's they would lose all prestige and patronage, and become cyphers. That defeated the bill, but in 1833 the question was again raised before a committee, and the then Secretary t 6 the Board. of Control circulated a number of queries to Indian offi cers as to the expediency of the change. A. vast body of evidence was collected, which would be found in the re port. He admitted that there were but few great names to bo found amongst the witnesses, except Sir J. Mal colm, and his views were identical with those which he (Sir E. Perry) advocated. Mr. Elphinstone disapproved of the project, but his authority was not so great as that of Sir J. Malcolm. He now came down to i the last Parliamentary committee that sat on Indian af fairs, and, strange enough, in that committee this great question was not so much as mooted, and for that reason, he had no recent evidence of which he could avail himself. He admitted [that there were some difficulties surrounding the question, and those difficulties divided themselves into two classes—difficulties of principle and difficulties of de tail. The difficulties of detail he would pass over, as being better adapted for discussion in committ ee ups t a i rs, but there were two or three difficulties of principle which must be settled by the legislature. The fact was the objection raised by Lord Grenville was, that if the Queen's army were to be the only army serving in India, it would be necessary to make the Government of India a royal Government. He did not shrink from that proposition, nor from expressing his opinion that such a change would be highly beneficial to India. The legislature had not, however, thought right t o adopt that course, but for twenty years had been gradually taking away from the company every vestige of power, and leaving them at last without any function whatever. But the question had already been tested, for we had at this moment in India 30,000 Queen's troops acting under the control of the civil servants of the com pany. Therefore if the Government still preserved this phantom of a company, the latter would retain the control of the army of the Crown. Lord Cornwallis had con sidered the difficulty, and had provided for it by suggest , ing that all despatches should pass through the Board of Control, and that the Horse Guards should have nothing whatever to do with the administration of the army in India. But there was a still more serious difficulty, The Indian service was apprehensive that if the armies were fused, Parliamentary and aristocratic influence would regulate the promotion, and that those officers who had not high friends in England, would be passed over for those who had. He could assure the house that if he believed it likely that such would be the case, he would not support the proposition for a moment. He did not fear the erection of any new abuse in the distribution of patronage. It was not easy to eradicate old ones, but we were at that task at present, and, under such circumstances, to establish any new abuses, would be a task of such enormous difficulty that no minister of the Crown would attempt it. But they had in India the principle established which Parliament had dis covered to be the true one—namely, a mixed system of seniority and selection. He admitted that in India the systeth of seniority had been carried too far, but recently selection had been added with the best possible effects. Such being the case, he believed that the fears which were entertained in some quarters against his project were per fectly chimerical. He had a body of evidence to show the mixed system as it was carried on in the French navy, furnished to him by Admiral de Chabannes, and in this country it had been most available in providing captains for the Baltic fleet, A third difficulty was one which had been put to him by some military men—namely, how would it be possible to amalgamate the com pany's army with the Queen's while purchase was the system of promotion in the one, and seniority in the other. The obvious answer to this was, that the two sys tems existed in the Queen's service, seniority and purchase, but there was another answer, and that was, that if the war continued, purchase would completely disappear. Any one who studied the Ga:ctte for the last few weeks would see that, as a military fact, the system of purchase had alre 14 disappeared. One word as to the comparative effects of the two systems. He had read carefully all the authorities in favour of promotion by purchase, and he found them all to have one basis, namely, that such a sys tem pen eitted the advancement of young men to positions of command ; but the Royal Commission declared that for this purpose the system of purchase had failed, seeing that the average age of major-genera Is in the Queen's ser vice was (15 years. In India, where the much-dreaded seniority system prevailed, the average was only 6?. These, however, were questions of detail. Ho thought ho had shown the house that these were facts which it was very desirable should be investigated by au impartial tribunal. Papers had been showered upon thew j from both services, much , information would he elicited, and besides, the inquiry he proposed would be perfectly parliamentary. Ho felt that he had left twiny topics, but they would afford a wide field for the speakers who were to follow him, but if they should be advocates for the East India Company, be begged them to remember that during the last 70 years, whenever a project inimical to the into- rests of the company was brought forward, the most plausi ble and ingenious arguments were used to deter the house, and that whenever Parliament, in its wisdom, slighted these predictions, subsequent experience was sure to prove them to have been perfectly valueless. He ventured to predict that, if the 'house - granted him this committee, such evidence would be offered as would enable Parliament s.• to add another to their important measures for the amelio ration of India. (Cheers.) The hon. member concluded by moving the resolution. Sir D. L. EVANS seconded the motion. Sir J. FITZGERARD did not see how any amalgama tion could be accomplished between the Indian army and the European,army. The expense of removing an army from India to the-Crimea would be enormous. To induce the Sepoy to leave India, he must have double pay and dou ble batta. But he was perfectly certain that the Sepoys never would be able to endure the march and the service that would be required of them. Under all the circumstances, he saw no possible benefit likely to arise from the appoint ment of a committee, and he should therefore oppose the motion. Colonel DUNNE said the motion divided itself into two distinct parts ' • first, as to how many tr oo p s cou ld b e spared from India to go to the Crimea. That was a ques tion for the executive Government to decide. It was a question of policy to be considered by the Government, and not one to be submitted to a committee of the House of Commons. No doubt, if the East India Company said they could spare 20,000 troops from India for the pur pose of prosecuting the war in the Crimea, it would be the duty of her Majesty's Government to avail themselves of their services. The second propositionof the hon. gentleman was to amalgamate the Indian army with the Royal army, but that was a proposition which had always been strenu ously opposed by the East India Company, and until the whole governmentlof India was transferred to her Majesty's Government it would be unadvisable tohave an army paid by one government and acting under the authority of another. The recent appointments of Indian officers to commands in the East had been greatly detrimental to the officers of the Royal army, and but little compliment was paid to her Majesty's officers when they were told officers from India were to receive commands over their heads in the Crimea. References had been made by the hon. gen tleman to the appointments which had been made to the Turkish Contingent. He (Colonel Dunne) was, however, of opinion that a Turkish Contingent would never exist, because it would be impossible to induce Turkish soldiers to serve under Christian officers. The officers of the Royal army had, nevertheless, been passedover in the commands which had been distributed with respect to foreign troops. One gallant friend of his, Colonel Chesney, a highly dis tinguished officer and a man well acquainted with the East, had actually been appointed to one of these foreign legions, and after having 'received his appointment was removed to make way for an Indian officer. To make a rule that the whole of the coniinands in her Majesty's service should be thrown open to Indian officers would hardly be dealing fairly with officers of the Royal army. Her Majesty's officers felt'proud of the high honour and chivalrous conduct of their Indian comrades, but did not think it either just or fair to transfer them to commands in the Royal army over the heads of the regular officers of that army. He was acquainted with several officers who had served through the whole of the Spanish campaign, but they were only recognised to this moment as civilians, notwithstanding the distinguished services they might have performed, and under such circumstances the hon. gentleman had no right to complain that the recent order merely con ferred upon Indian officers honorary rank. If the proposi- Id Dim* believed that the services of none but o fficers con tions of the hon. gentleman were acceded to , he (Colonel be obtained, laced in be transferred from India an d p . . Indian army could most of the Indian tro p because it could not be expected that the her Majesty's service. Indeed, t r/ of Moultan they sea, and at the siege . ble troops objected to Gross the would be useless out of their own emu? hes Thougu admire not refused to work in the trenc • commanded, they were dis in India and admirably and they had.seldom gained eitained like the Royal tro p , . , Many of them :had listened with great atten- Sir J. W. HOGG said h by his Juin. friend (Sir E. tion to the suggmtions made tion, 0 and, having heard his hon. a victory without having be e s n headed by. British officers. Perrylinintroducing ;uponthNre Indian army and its efficiency in friend'spanegYne b,d certainly hoax somewhat Bur every department, he . II the authority gentleman .l prised tn.fin T u h n e d . e h r on. iti served, had arrive at the conclu-- under which that ar y now to be transferred from the authority sion that it ought d that his on. fiend, knowing .d which 1 t h ad by w one ehollid. sit upon the gaine of some possible diversion that might be made by • h d ic it h s i t had .present beenstate s efficienc y' ed, ' ' d an . then proposed that s Committee of the House t s b p e ok l e ndian army in the present e ofco w m ar ra , qu estion, and arrogate to themselves the ftuactiona 'of th e Government `both as to the policy of the war alid the m o d e in which it was to be conducted. (" lid; no," f Perry.) The hon. gentleman had certainlrom Sir E. ditions 'to the Persian Gulf, to the Crimea, y spoken of expel. ley of the Euphrates, mentioning and to the val. themonly gestions for the consideration of the as several sug call upon a committee to discuss such ! , ommittee. Surely, to transfer_ to them the function subjects would be to motion- of his hon. friend sof the Government. The ill the first yue how the was t his — to - considerand inquire most avraia le for' %sr •• ? 'Lx rily. in 'lndik might. ,be raaC.l99. 61 4 904 , • ~,,...._ Presetwirai ;za -oettainly if Was v•v e v a W 4 14 Wiwi to to War, to Fay that, after a committee had been sitting month after month, ree porting to the house, and discussing the conduct of the war, another committee ought to be appointed to inquire how f ar th e I n d ian army might be rendered, not effectual for general purposes, but actually available for thetpre aTn'real question was, sent war. He would, however, tell his hon.. friend that was ts not f a , question n l d fora sare_d committee m I n o. d i f that ue was not the question which ought to be considered. whether the Indian army, or tl o y f with the safety of our IndianTh y at p w possessions (Hear hear.) Commons to determine. N a y, it • y, 1 was not a question to be determined by the Government the i' o st u e s n e of this country. It was a question to be decided by the Governor-General alone. The Governo r -G enera l , if of India were the man he ought to be, and if he were a m an o f such were experience and talent as he ever bad been, was al one competentto my whether a soldier could leave India with due regard to the safety and security of that mighty empire. This .question, with regard to the Indian army being available, was not one of specula. tion ;it was a question of fact. The experience of half a, century showed that the Indian army had always been available. Had there been any al ifficulty. in rendering that army available for the expeditions to Egypt, Ceylon, Java, the Mauritius, the Eastern Archipelago, China, and Afghanistan? He must, in passing, express his opinion that the Affghan war, though fought by the Indian army, rut] paid for by the Indian treasury, was essentially a European war. His hon. and learned friend might say that he referred rather to the Indian officers than to the Indian army; and that was not so much a -matter of ,speculation as of fact. Her 31.:jesty's Government had stated that they wanted the services of Indian officers, and.what was the result ? Within a few days, almost within a few hours, hundreds of Indian, officers volunteered, and at this mo !dent there were many Indian officers serving this c iiintry under Generals Williams and Ca'nnon. His hon. and learned friend had thought fit to constitute himself a j udge as to whether the prober officers had or had not been selected. His bon. friend had named men whose distinction was recognised throughout India,-and he (Sir J. 1-I °p"g) would be glad to see those gallant, officers em ployed in the service ; but he must say that the officers who had already been selected were men of high distinc tloa, and h e was satisfied they would show . themselves deserving of the confidence t had been reposed in them. Hi s h e 1 3 , friend proposed, by his motion, to in quire into the steps which it might be necessary to take if it should be deemed advisable to constitute the In dian army a Royal army , He thought his hon. friend would hav e b een a little more logical if he had established the conditio n p recedent d an inquiry which was instead of proposing to enter into consequent upon a condition that id not exist. His hon. fri had nothing defi n it e to e n d had told the house that he J. Hogg) that the hon. gentleman suggest. It appeare d t o hi m (si r on. gentleman was enamoured of some change, and that if h e cou l d only obtain some change he did not care what it w as . The hon. gentleman first put upon the paper a notice of motion for "kindof roving commission • a ng commission to inquire and see .what Heaven would send them. The hon. gentleman, however, now asked for committee. He (Sir J. Hogg) w as sure that if the hon. and learned gentleman was sitting on the bench where he had so long presided with honour to himself and advan tage to his country, and if any one were to make hies such a proposal as he had now submitted to the house, he would regard it as a kind of political bill of discovery„ to see if anything could be discovered upon which some thing could be founded. (A laugh.) His honourable friend had directed attention to three prominent points —the amalgamation of the two armies ; whether there should or should not be a distinct, teparate, local army for India ; and, if there were to be a separate, distinct, local army for India, whether or not that army should be a. Royal army. The hon. gentleman said he felt a little diffi culty with respect to the subject of amalgamation, and he (Sir J. Hogg) was not surprised that he did so. Indeed his only surprise was that his hon. friend had not been more sensible of the difficulty, for he (Sir J. Hogg) re garded such an amalgamation as not merely a 'matter of of difficulty,but of impracticability. The two armies were, indeed, absolutely antagonistic the one to the other. In the Queen's army they had the system of purchase and exchange, and they had continual reliefs to different parts of the British empire, but in the Company's army there was no purchase. In that army officers were gratuitously nominated to commissions ; they did not rise by purchase, but solely by seniority ; and so rigid. was that rule of seniority that exchange was precluded. In the Indian army, the junior lieutenant not only had a right to have the stipulated number of lieutenants above him, but by the rules of the service he was entitled to have thesame, identical individual officers above him, and the rules of the service did not permit of any exchange under any circum stances. Then, with regard to the system of reliefs, the Indian army was a local army, and not only were its ser vices confined to India' except under circumstances of pe culiar emergency, but, as a general rule, the army of each presidency was confined to that presidency. He thought, then, he was justified in saying that the constitutions and arrangement of the two armies were not only different, but that they were actually opposed the one to the other There were, however, some other matters which his :hon. friend had slurred over, but to which he (Sir J. Irogg) would. ask the attention of the house. In the Indian.army every officer, after a certain number of years' service, wasentitled to retire upon the pay of his rank. There were also dif ferent funds —as, for instance, funds for widows and orphans, the contribution to which was compulsory—pe. culiar to the Indian army. How, then,' was an amalgama tion to be effected? Would they assimilate the Queen's army to the Company's army, and give the former these boons, or would theya,assimilate the Company's army to the Queen's and deprive them of their vested rights and interests? He asserted most confidently that amalgama tion was absolutely impracticable. What he had said so far applied to the English officers and men ; but how would the suggested change affect the sepoys ? He would ask the house to listen to what Mr. Macaulay said of the sepoy:. lie said : " A hostile monarch may promise mountains of gold to our sepoys, on condition that they will desert the standard of the Company. The Company promises only a moderate pen-ion after a lon z service. But every sepoy knows that the promise of the Company will be kept, he knows that if he lives 100 years his rice and salt are as secure as the salary of the Governor-General, and he knows that there is not another State in India which would not, in spite of the most solemn vows, leave him to die of hunger in a ditch as soon as he ceased to be useful." That was a true descrip,inu of the sepoy at the present time. Now, the sepoy had failings, and his prominent fail in o• was suspicion, dislike, and fear of innovation. He (Si r J. Hogg) did not exceed the bounds of fact when he said thatany innovation excited and alarmed the distrust of the sepoy, oven though it were for his own benefit. He would rend co the house the opinion of an officer of the Indian army, the historian of the Affghan war, with respect to the danger of tampering with the Sepoys, in consequence of their dread of innovation. Mr. Kaye said— "The people of India will bear a great deal, so long as they are used to it. They are very intolerant of change. They do not understand it. They are timid and suspicious. Benevolence and wisdom may go hand in hand in our mea sures, but the people are not easily persuaded that what we are doing is for their good." This apprehension of change was peculiar to the people of India, and every man who had ruled that country had acted upon the principle of altering as little as possible the condition of the sepoys for fear of 'exciting some mini). prehension. He (Sir J. Hogg) thought he had shown that the amalgamation of the two armies was impracticable, and he contended that, as they could not have such amal gamation, the army of India must be a separate, local, distinct army. At this moment 9-10ths of the army were natives. It must not only be a separate and distinct local army, but it must be a native army. We could not hold India by an exclusively European force. This country could not stand the drain of money and treasure ; the two treasuries of England and India could not stand the drain that would be necessary to hold India exclusively by a European force. If they could do so it would be perilous in the extreme, fatal to India, and fatal to our hold on that country, from the disaffection and jealousies which it would excite in the native mind. The army, then, mug, be local and native, but it must be officered by British officers in order to be effective. These officers must be familiar with the language, the religion,' the usages, and the prejudices of the sepoys; and, if such were their quali fications, they could not fail to conciliate them and command their affections. (Hear, hear.) 'Without such qualifications, instead of conciliation, we, would have alienation ; and this brought him to a remark of his hon. friend, who spoke of Indian officers as if it were an advan tage to be always looking to his native country. Nov he (Sir J. W. Hogg) contended for exactly the reverse. The Indian officer, to be effective and useful in the capacities he had indicated, must go out young—he must go out not too old to be transplanted. He must take root in India, and feel and look at India as his home; and not only must he remain in India, but remain in the same regiment, that he might know the peculiarities of the natives at large, as well as every man individually in the regiment. Tate result interests. b y the h a t i showed that this was the fact. At the present moment there were 1,100 officers in the Indian army who, if they pleased, might retire on pensions, but who were so much attached to the country and so devoted to their profession and their men that they did not avail themselves of the privilege. (Hear, hear.) A European force could not be in itself a local force in any sense similar to that of the native army. It ought to be identified with the native army. If it wr so, it would be a source of strength and confidence ; if t was not it would fail to be either. (Hear, hear.) Then to, the the Indian empire ; but these were only au xiliariess nmaned there were about 30,000 Queen's troops for the defence . of native army. They went out as auxiliaries, d f‘ The Wellington said with reference to this e v r ery ae Ap ed su, auzi. Queen's army are and must always the Indiangarmy." Now, such, their stay being usually short. In 1827 the of liaries, and auxiliaries only, to t. it _ wasthijs army in was this the effect of mere speculation d ieory? No; like the its present condition the work f - ,i, lured. It commenced as the mall of circu2nsta dually increased,' and slight from small beginnings,is constitution till at last it arrived best institutions of the counnray, changes were made in e _c.ency. i r t o gre: y w up and was altered (Hear.) It was a fabrics at its, present state of th I of a hundred years. With it was associated mighty names of hour. (Hear, hear.) In the early per i o ds of folly an • ewe had no army—there were reared by the wisdom of thelndian empu: n the way. The first ` so ldiers and apprehensions however, we b in anhe E ers 'we had. got into align:ails y were uropeans., W had were few in num 6s and an d destroyed in i gh ty the • I then no a d t: In to h o w e Jealousy that the first we employ ed. might b n e p at i ti v l 1 n e s il m ight state were the deacenda ta „; 'a the of Portuguese, who were called " topassece .oft t he middle of the last century, with the native princes, and then Commenc e d imprude n ce might tion of a native army. At first there enced the Bri tishorgn officers to a regiment, and were only three officer holding the 11 13 ... , . the Indian army - bad no g a commission till regiment was formed, he believed l7BO. The first Battle of Plassy, - under Lord in 1750; and was at the and constitution of the Clive. - Siich *CA thW origin army as it a separate an d distinct local now existed in India — Majesty' s t roops, which army, 'having the aid of her * were changed - , , after.pailicular, periods of s erv i ce. It might . be said., .why could we not have a l oca l I n di an army which would at the Barite'- time be a royal 9 army . This raised the question,, ought the army to be t rans f erred to ' the Crewn ? His honourable . :friend said - he would change - it from.heing a,leeal erzeiy,Fid thereby add-to its honour, dignity, and consequence.. H. contended th a t th e e ff ec t wou ld b e exac tly th e r everse; As an Inditin army it had acquired glory and distinction, such as no other army could exceed. Instead of baying thedis- Unction of being a separate army, if We transfened: it to the Crown it would become a kind of local army—it might I - era Wrest India-r 4,- e- 4 become a eort . of Ceylon "regimen ~. _ mint, but we would do-away-with all its prestige ?ind its - glory. (Hear, hear.) In 1 832 Mountatewart Elphinstons, in reply Co questions put to him o n this subject b 1i ... yt 6 Pre. sident of the Board of Contr ol, first spoke of th e separation of the two governmen ts, ts the civil from the military, Dag follows :—' " The separation of the civil g o ,frorn the mills tart' would probably not answer i n vernrueilt any country, but least of all in India: The great problem there-has alwaryi•bsen to_maintain the , s ubordination of the mary ilit woofer to the tivif, a nd - to prevent clash - 11TE belw3en tho . g.v'efilart and oconali gdeer ai-Gaid• la t We have ant always boa shdpi 6i 6 801 20 12i 25 20 Bt. 10 1.0.6 20 20 20 10 89 i