The Sun. — London, England, 1841-08-27 00:00:00

!EVENING SUN THE PROCEEDINGS 'OF THE - - MANCHESTER CONFERENCE VINDICATED. TO THE EDITOR OF THE SUN. Sln—Tbe General Synod convoked at Manchester for the consideration of our commercial economy, as it affects the.prisent position of this country, is pregnant with im portant ,matter to all classes with respect to our home, colonial, or foreign relations. That it should therefore have excited the animadversions of the Times, and have provoked its malevolence, can in no wise be a matter of astonishment to those who habitually watch the arbi trary conduct and peremptory fiat of that usually able, but wayward and mischievous Journal. A coarse and Witless report of the week's proceed tags has been furnished at intervals by their own accredited Correspondent, as instinct with vulgar in ference as it is indifferently inclined to facts, and the whole. preamble exhibits a malicious pre determination to misrepresent or censure what, in its utmost efforts, it could not repress. Every calumnious observation that a corrupt ingenuity could invent, or a wilful misapprehension supply, has been re sorted to to impugn the consideration of a subject the bread taxers dare not engage in, and to stifle the utterance of truths it is their policy to decry and condemn. All this, I trust, will be in vain. The character of the meeting— the weight, situations, and influences of its participants — will all tend to give at once a celebrity to the proceed ings, calculated to strike deeply into the hearts of inte rested millions and to put to defiance the low vitupera tion of a Journal set apart for no other purpose than as a hreling to oppose every thing that has a single ele ment of popular prosperity in it ; of course, to the nar row interests of its proprietors, or interfering in even the outer and more collateral possessions of a turgid and luiurious aristocracy. The time, however, I believe to be fast approaching When those social enormities will be destroyed, when the solicitation of thousands for relief to the common wants of nature will be accompanied by a portentious reserva tion-of outraged feeling, which, under the pressure of famine, may break out into resistance, and demand that, in the force of their desperation, which has been denied to them in the fullness of their distress. The frequent national appeals—aye, the very season itself—seems almost to invoke an abrogation of these most iniquitous Corn-laws : the aggregated testimony of their =policy from different countries, the biogra phical records of all great political economists of every time and clime, are fraught with memorable objurgations against any restrictive imposts upon food for the people, and it is only for the puisne and pseudo economists of to-day in the sustenance of their memorial and other privileges, to project laws, which, by keeping up the price of 'land, may hand down a crescent and improving rent roll to tfieir heirs by primogeniture, with a con temporaneous security, that sinecures, or offices of small need and great profits, are in store for the junior branches when they require them, and all this whilst the surrounding poor are experiencing present beggary, and "Hoe so long deferred " as indeed to " make the heart sick." The state of the poor is in every way frightfuL One of the speakers at the meeting relates a. conversation with passing agricultural labourers, several of whom could not tell the price of meat per lb.; another, that he had not tasted animal food for two years, by reason of his great poverty; a third, the father of six children, that his family and himself lived for the most Part on potatoes, rendering the vegetable succulent by "drinking part of the water they were boiled in !" What a picture is here of miserable expedients to preserve life, and all the result clear to a demonstration of an iniqui tous law, made for the support of a small section of men, and the increase of a wealth already monstrous to an enormity. And all this is to be endured ! whilst Ame rica, with nearly her two millions of acres of corn• grow ing.land, is ready and willing to barter the produce of her superfluities ibrthecotton fabrics of Manchester, and the mechanical commodities of Birmingham and Sheffield ; but in consequence of restriction on one article of the inter change, this advantage is withheld,—the channels of im portation are closed, and, from the manufacturer to the operative, they are on the road to beggary, without pros- Peet of improvement. Let those, therefore, who heartlessly scoff at the want of national prosperity, and declare instances of indivi dual destitution to be only the fate of things in great countries-+the influxes and the reflexes of the tide of prosperity exciting either natural advantage or popular discontent,—let them learn to be wise in time, and re flect upon the consequences of a bad harvest, greater scarcity of food, increased penury, and perishing fami lies, where abundance should only be ; and all this with the growing intelligence of a people Well informed of the causes of their gnawing Indigence and independent of the thraldom and vassalage of the landowner, who can only lord it over a few serfs, Whom not half a century of disseminated useful instruc tion has served to manumit them from feudalism, or strike off the prejudices of our almost primative ignorance of their own privileges as intellectual and responsible beings. Let such scoffers, I say, beware of placing any trust upon so hollow a philosophy. Above all, let them keep their eyes steadily upon the cause, progress, and matu rity of the French Revolution, and bear in mind that, however memorable for unrestrained atrocities those times were—however deplorable to the philanthropist the sacrifice of life and property—those times form a close and flowing prototype of our own in the arrogance and sympathetic disregard of her " ancient regime until it grew past popular endurance—and that, if the general resentment had stayed at the almost entire deportation of an aristocracy, too oppressive to govern, and too re niorseless to be kind, historians might have represented the French Revolution as the result of a deprecated but I %perative resistance to powers which had outgrown t hemselves, and by giant encroachments had become the s courge of the nation to which they belonged, the spoiler t irevery political and civil prerogative, and the wanton contemners of all the reasonable obligations from man to titan, like distant clouds that look dark upon the ho rizon, and are hurryinc , up by the tempest to the me ridian ere they burst—lawful constraint will be fomented by the agitation of the political hurricane into lawless rebellion, and the flood-gates of natural resentment once let loose, it will be well if that merciless oligarchy —the people's rulers—be not engulphed irrecoverably in the deluge, and become a warning and monumental record of national immolation, to the misdoers of suc ceeding times. Yours, respectfully, Liverpool, Aug. 23, 1841. ALCIBIADES. I NsoLVENT DEBTORS' COURT. TO THE EDITOR OF THE SUN. Stn-Litis high time that public atention should be awakened to the constitution and practice of the In solvent Debtors' Court. In each respect it appears to 9le to be peculiarly defective, and to call for an imme diate legislative remedy. The subject is one of great importance to both creditors and debtors, to whom the decisions of the Court are too often equally unsatisfac tory. The predominance of the agency of evil over that ( , ) E good is strikingly exemplified in its proceedings. Numerous instances might be adduced in support of this proposition, but then they would encroach too much on Your valuable space. The Insolvent Debtors' Court can be regarded only in the light of a Court of Equity, and ought to be governed upon principles analogous to those of other Courts of equity. But it is tied down and fettered by the pro visions of a Special Act of Parliament. It is true there is what is termed the "Discretionary Clause," * which gives the Commissioners greater latitude, but under Which injustice is as often done as justice. No man can Possibly divine, when an insolvent steps into that Court, When the issue of his case may be. The probability is, the greater the knave, the greater the chance of es cape. An honest debtor cannot be certain he will not be remanded ; and a rogue has many facilities to assist him getting off. In many cases, he has only to swear tastily, and he walks out a free man. My experience, at least has taught me that such is too generally the fact. If I were usked how the Court works, I should re- Ply, in the words of one of the Grave-diggers in Ham let, ie., "It does well for those who do ill." Few per t's:du could sit in that Court for a single day, without 'lcing struck by its anomalies and inconsistencies. These are frequently particularly observable in Bail eases. I submit that the duty of the Court on those occasions is simply to inquire into the sufficiency of the bail tendered. It has no right to dip into the merits of the case, and to prejudge it. It has no right to'antici - Pate what an Insolvent's case may be merely from a lg:an ee at the schedule. Nor is it justified in interposing b unnecessary obstacles to the admis sion of bail. Now, I have known the Court to be guilty of all those acts ; I have known a case in which the Insolvent, although the hail was acknowledged to be unexceptionable, luought up three times before he was discharged, upon the most frivolous pretext, for no other apparent object Ina to increase the expenses, or to gratify the caprice 'o f f the Chief Commissioner, by whom the case in ques tion orsA heard. Th e chW characteristic of the Insolvent Debtors' Court seems to me to consist in giving impunity to fraud and discouragement to honest poverty. Not that such is invariably the case—if it were the Conrt would be a c '' lo rNO nuisance than it ac tuall y is—but this is its general featu re . It is notorious that the most flagrant delin quents freqtunttly escape, laughing in their sleeves at their own dexterfty ; while artless , unso p histicated, well nusning, but unfortauste debtors, as often come under the ban of the Court. if sn insolvent be opposed, and a .1 case," as it is termed, be ma & opt against him, no Matter however trivial or insignificallt t may be, no matter how vindictive may be the motives, or animus of the opposing creditor, still it is a " ease," happy insolvent is liable to a remand for any period not and the ma exceeding three years, to be determined by the humour of the Court, under the discretionary c l ause . As an instance of the severity sometimes exercised under this clause (or clauses) it may be mentioned that it, is only a short time since an aged man, nearly seventy, in an ill state of health, and who had been already in carcerated fora period of fourteen years, was adjudged to a further imprisonment of two years, a judgment which will probably prove equivalent to confinement for life. The case was certainly a bad one, but not worse than many others, in which in solvents have b e en e i ther discharged altogether, or subj ected to a much lighter re wand ; and the advanced age and ill-health of this insol vent might surely have pleaded in favour of a judgment less severe. Ido not impute corrupt or improper motives to the Commissioners ; but it is quite evident that younger and !kb:we vigorous intellects are required to conduct the aUsiness of that Court ; and I have seen cases in which it '` as difficult to divest oneself of a belief that the Court ht.d been warped by an undue bias. The purity of our 1 4 al Courts should be like that of Cwsar's wife, not only in suspected, but above suspicion. There is one other point to which I must allude, "Pecially as I consider it, perhaps, the most important Pm rt of the whole subject. Whatever abuses ma y pre 'vil, whatever grievances may exist, under the jurisdic ti, of the Court, there is no redress—there is no appeal rem its decision. From all other Courts an appeal is s i Owed to a superior tribunal, up to that o f t h e P riv y Ce or House of Lords ; and why should there not he the asnio right of Aping from the Insolvent Debtors' Court, ? Can any satisfactory solution be given to this quesiOn ? I fear not. SCRUTATOR. * It is generally . supposed that there is only one discre tionary clause. It is always spoken of as the discretionary clause ; but, in point of fact, there are three clauses, all of which may, with equal propriety, be so called—namely, clauses 76, 77, and 78. The first of these limits the terms of impri sonment to six months, the third to two years, and the inter mediate one to three years. All these clauses might have been easily incorporated in one ; but this is only a solitary specimen of the extreme clumsiness with which the Act has been framed. SPIRIT of the PUBLIC JOURNALS. (FROM THE DAILY PAPERS OF YESTERDAY.) GLOBE.—The reports of the morning are anything but favourable to Sir R. Peel's prospects of success, in his efforts to preserve the heterogeneous elements which con stitute what is called his party in a state of apparent cohe sion : as to positive union, the thing is too unnatural to be regarded as possible. The Duke of Buckingham, " the Farmers' Friend," it is now pretty well understood, is to be cast aside as impracticable. His Grace has re fused his assent to any change in the Corn-laws ; and protests against the deception practised upon the agri cultural interest, now a change in those laws is intimated to be essential to preserve the commercial interests from. embarrassment, and to satisfy the country—even by those who were among the foremost to condemn the exist; ng Government for proposing a similar change in the sys tem. The " last of the Plantagenets," and his double, Sir Richard Vivian, may again seek their rural retreats, and sigh over their abandoned Corn-laws, and the irreclaimable perfidy of Sir Robert Peel. We hear that tha wrath of the Duke is terrible, and his threaten ing denunciations fierce. The Duke of Beaufort is also reported refractory, and talks of ven geance. Promises of the first vacant garters have been made to each ; but these objects of desire have not charms sufficient to calm the indignation of the dis - appointed and deceived chiefs. The secret is out. The influence of the impracticables was useful to aid the moderates in scaling the walls of office ; but their intro duction to office would embarrass and eventually destroy the party. They are to be thrown overboard. A few empty honours are to be promised, in the hope of stopping their clamorous complaints ; if they succeed, well ; if not, any consequences must be hazarded, rather than the certainty of the whole concern being blown up by the Ultra policy they insist shall be adopted as the condition of their support. STANDARD.—We understand that there is little or no doubt that the division on the amendment in the House of Commons will take place to-night. The debate would have terminated last night, but that it was discovored that a number of the general supporters of the Melbourne Administration had not. qualified, and the Government naturally desired to make as strong a muster as possible on their last appearance in an official capacity. We have not learned whether the omission of this indispensable Parliamentary form was accidental or intentional, but there is a very prevalent rnmour that there are serious defections from the Ministerial phalanx, more particularly as regards their usual Irish adherents. Among the Members who up to last night had not qualified, the names of Mr. O'Connell and of the Irish Attorney-General were mentioned ; the total number was estimated at about twenty. There is no doubt, however, that this omission will be remedied before the division takes place, which in all probability will be to-night. It behoves every Conservative to be at his post. It is un derstood to be the wish of her Majesty that the Addresses from the two Houses of Parliament, in answer to the Speech from the Throne, should be presented on the same day. An intimation to that effect has, we have heard. been conveyed to the Conservative majority in the House of Lords, and there is no doubt that their Lordships will make such an arragement as to time as will enable the other branch of the Legislature to lay their answer to the Royal com munication at the foot of the Throne on the same day that their Lordships may select for that purpose. COURIER.—The task of vindicating the conduct of the Whig Cabinet throughout its devious career was certainly a formidable one, and therefore, per haps, it is not much to be wondered at that expe rienced hands, as well as novice politicians, shauld have preferred a discussion on free-trade crotchets, to a defence of the Whig Cabinet. But, although the novelty of Mr. Cobden's position may be some apology for his laborious but resultless wanderings, for the extra vagance of his pointless declamation, and the abundant display of his pu-poseless facts—the scrapings of offi cial tables—neither the Noble Lord the President of the Council, nor the Right Honourable the President of the Board of Trade can avail themselves of such an apologetic plea for refusing to grapple with the question raised in the amendment, or to accept the challenge it so distinctly and unequivocally offered. From such small fry as the Wards, the Cobdens, the Crawfords, and the Bowrings, men of one idea, and that neither profound nor brilliant, a rambling incoherent discussion on the Corn-laws, and free trade projects in general, was to have been expected. A miserable collection of isolated facts, gathered from unsold pamphlets or unpublished speeches, and carefully curtailed of their fair proportions, constitute the stock in trade of these pretenders to political science. With facts and figures, shaped after the true Procrustean fashion, and tortured into a thread of forced agreement with their preconceived notions and pet projects, they came prepared to prove anything and everything ; to trace the connexion of cause and effect between the Corn-laws and every imaginable calamity ; to demonstrate the pre valence of universal distress, and at least satisfy them selves that the country is on the brink of confusion and ruin. NAVAL INTELLIGENCE. (From the Brighton Gazelle.) PORTSMOUTH, Aua. 25.- 1 -The Formidable, 84, and Hercules, 72, at Chatham, arc ordered to be prepared for commission. Rear-Admiral Richard Thomas, C. 8., appointed to the command in the Pacific, has left London for Plymouth, to embark on board the Dublin, 50, for conveyance to the Brazils. Mr. James Pinhorn, purser, is to accompany the Rear-Admiral as secretary. Rear-Admiral Ross, C. 8., will retnrn to England in the President frigate, and his arrival may be looked for in December next. The Wolverine, 16, Captain Tucker, is hourly ex pected from the west coast of Africa, to be paid off. The utmost activity now prevails at the several naval arsenals, the following ships having been commissioned : —lllustrious, 72, Malabar, 72, Warspite, 50, Isis, 50, Madagascar, 44, Cambrian, 36, Aigle, 24, and Harle quin 18. • The Bittern, 16, Commander the lion. B. Cary, has sailed for the South American station, proceeding in the first instance to the Cape of Good Hope, to land des patches. The Speedy cutter is commissioned by Lieut. George Beaufoy. The corvette Iris, 26, Captain Morse, arrived at As cension from England. last from the River Gambia, on the 4th July, and as soon as refitted was to proceed to the Cape to join the Andromache, 26, Capt. Baynes. The Carysfort, 26, is daily expected from the Mediter ranean to be paid off. The Electra corvette, 16, Commander Gosling, is to go out to Spithead to-morrow, it is reported for the Medi terranean. Captain R. Yates has taken the command of the Pique, 36, at Sheerness, to convey out to the West Indies the new Commander-in. Chief, Vice-Admiral Sir Charles Adam, K.C.B. Captain E. Boxer, C. 8., ap pointed to succeed Commodore Douglas at Jamaica, will also take passage in the Pique. The Princess Charlotte, 110, has been docked, &c.., preparatory to leaving the Port Admiral's flag-ship here, as there is no doubt that the Queen, 110, will go to the Mediterranean. The Impregnable three-decker, 110, Captain Forrest, C. 8., is the only ship at Spithead. She requires a con siderable number of hands to complete, and her depart ure is very uncertain. IN HARBOUL—Queen Victory, Royal George yacht , Excellent. Illustrious, Warspite, Madagascar, Electra, Rapid, Echo, Samarang, and tenders. The Aix-la-Chapelle Gazette relates the fol lowing melancholy instance of religious fanaticism. A Pro testant inhabitant of that city was married many years ago to a Catholic, by whom he, had two children, who were edu cated in the Catholic faith. On the death of his wife he mar ried a Protestant, and from that hour endeavoured to convert his children from the Catholic to the Protestant religion, but could not succeed, and at length the relations of his wife in sisted on removing the children from his house. A few days since, says this paper, tho father went to the house at which his children were staying, and, after having endeavoured in vain to induce his son to abandon the Catholic faith, he become furious, and hanged him. The boy was soon afterwards dis covered and cut down, but in such a state, that little hope was entertained of saving him. The father was arrested, and con veyed to prison. A man named Belin was tried before the Court of Assize at Paris, two days ago, for an assault under the following circumstances. On March 30, a young man knocked at the door of a person named Belin, employed by the Stockbrokers at the Exchange, and finding, or rather knowing beforehand, that he was not at home, gained entrance under pretence of having a message. Getting Mme. Belin into a room by herself, he seized her by the throat, and, draw ing a knife threatened with violent imprecations to murder her if she did not give him all her money. She made so stout a resistance that she dragged her assailant to the landing-place and there called for assistance. Upon this the robber at tempted to make his escape. but was followed and brought back. To the astonishment of Mme. Belin, who, during the struggle had not recoguised him—he proved to be Paul Belin, a nephew of her husband, scarcely twenty years of age, who had been a long time discarded by his family for misconduct, and only lately released from prison, where he had been con fined on a conviction of forgery. The circumstances of the case were proved, and the prisoner acknowled his guilt, but at tributed it to the instigation of two malefactors with whom he had made acquaintance in prison, and who, in fad, accompa nied him to his uncle's house, when he committed the assault, but effected their escape. Paul Belin was found guilty with extenuating circumstances, and sentenced to hard labour at the hulks for ten years, and to be exposed on the pillory. The upper part of the site of ancient Car thage has receivgd the name of Mount Louis Philippe, since i the done' on made to the King last year by the Bey of Tunis, of a tract of lan d west of the Goletta, between the sea to the nom th, and t h e Roman and Carthaginian ruins to the south. On this spot has been erected the chapel which the King has dedicated to the memory of St. Louis, who died there on 25th August, 1270. The first stone of the intended edifice was laid some time age by a French priest of Tunis, with much Soli and the edifice has since been built of the s t one call e d man's Marble, fitted in with the Tufa, t w Gh b ee i n c po li haa f m hp o er r iick s s t , h c e o b at e ed d owfitthhestubeacyoo. f Carthage, and vaulted with The principal entrance into are to be:— " Chapel of Saint Louis. faces the sea, and over i t is a bronze tablet, on which inseribed pa French Louis Philippe j., Kjpg of thp f rencli, has erected the monu ment on the sFot where hjs ancestor, the igng Saint Louis, expired, —1841." On a pediment, the border of which is of an oriental charaoter, is to be the following inscription in Ara bic :—" Here died the magnificent and just Sultan, Louis, son lof Louk King of France. May God be merciful to him This groend was granted in perpetuity to the Sultan of the French, by the illustrious Emir Ahmed Bey. Whoto re spects this IPPTIuMent? God will bless him." vt • -;evo , • • , w IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Aug. 26. The SPEAKER took the Chair at a Quarter before Pour o'Clock. Several Members took the oaths and their seats. Among them we observed Mr. O'Connell, Mr. D. Cal laghan, Sir D. Roche, Mr. Cornelius O'Brien, Mr. W. S. O'Brien Mr. Hodgson, Mr. Brocklehurst, Mr. Pigot, Mr. Dillon Browne, Mr. Mark Blake, and Mr. F. Villiers. The SPEAKER said he had received from the Clerk of the Hanaper in Ireland the names of certain persons who had notified, under their hands and seals, their as sent to act as Commissioners for the purpose of taking evidence in that country, under the Act relating to con troverted elections. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE presented 13 petitions from Northampton, complaining of the constitution of the pre sent House of Commons, and praying her Majesty to dis solve the Parliament and command another to be elected by Universal Suffrage. Also a petition from Smed way, complaining of distress, and praying the House to address her Majesty, begging of her to call men of Radical principles to her Councils. The Hon. Member also presented a petition from two working men at Nor wich, complaining of certain proceedings at the last elec tion for that city, and praying the House to institute an inquiry into the malpractices of which the petitioners complained, and to give them such redress as it should think proper. Mr. W. MILES presented a number of petitions from the County of Somerset against a low fixed duty upon corn. Also a petition from the parish of Abbotsleigh, and one from a parish in the City of Bristol, praying for Church Extension. Colonel CONOLLY presented a petition from the Sheriff, Grand Jury, and Magistrates of the County of Donegal, praying for a revival of the October Quarter Sessions in that county. The Honourable and Gal lant Member then gave notice, that it was his intention, in the course of the next session of Parliament, to bring forward a motion on the subject. PRIVATE BUSINESS. Sir GEORGE GREY moved Conominate,a Committee on private business :—Sir George Grey, Mr. Labouchere, Sir Robert Peel, Lord Stanley, Mr. Loch, Lord Gran ville Somerset, Mr. Aglionby, Mr. Greene, Sir John Yarde Buller, Sir James Graham, Mr. Ellice, Mr. Est court, Sir Edward Knatchbull, Sir Thomas Fremantle, Mr. Evvitrt, Mr. Pendarves, Mr. Wilson Patten, Mr. - William Miles, Sir William Heathcote, Sir George Clerk, and Sir Robert Ferguson. Agreed to. POST OFFICE.' Mr. WALLACE moved for certain returns relative to the Post-office; and also gave notice of a motion relative to the appointment of a successor to the present Post master-General, Mr. AINSWORTH moved for certain returns of the number of stamps used for newspapers. CASE OF MR. M'LEOD. Mr. ROEBUCK rose and said, that the Noble Lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs in his place, he would with the permission of the House proceed to ask the Noble Lord certain questions, of which he had given notice on the first night of the Session respecting the present relations between this country and America with respect to the detention of _Mr. M‘Leod. He had stated, when he had given the notice, that it would be necessary for him to make a few remarks that the House might understand the questions which he was about to put. His object in putting these questions was as far as possible to promote peace, and to obtain that end he would suggest that before they came to any conclusion lion. Members should understand the ques tion of our relations with the United States. The question, or rather questions he was about to put were five in number, and related entirely to the detention of Mr. M‘Leod. That detention arose out of transactions connected with the steam-boat Caroline, an attack upon which on the United States territory had given great umbrage not only to the State of New York but the United States generally. Therefore on ap plication was made to the Government of this country, to which no answer was returned. It so happend that, in the meantime, Mr. M‘Leod, one of those persons who was suspected of taking part in the attack, from his own boastful, but as he (Mr. Roebuck) believed, erroneous statement respecting it, happened to be in the State of New York, and was arrested in con sequence of the belief so created. When he was arrested, a feeling in this country arose respecting it, and orders were sent out to Mr. Fox, our Ambassador, to make application to the Government of the United States de manding the liberation of Mr. M‘Leod, and, there upon, an answer was made by Mr. Forsyth, the American Secretary for Foreign Affairs. To that answer he requested the attention of the House. It should always be recollected that the demand was made by Mr. Fox before an answer was made by the Noble Lord respecting the Caroline. Mr. Forsyth's answer was that they had no jurisdiction whatever in the matter then spoken of—that it was a matter wholly within the jurisdiction of the State of New York, and therefore the President of the United , : States could give no answer nor interfere in the matter, though relating to the safety of a British sub ject. He went even farther, and said that the President had no feeling in the matter that would induce him to interfere if he had the power. • Mr. Forsyth shortly after went out of office, and then came in a new Government, the new Secretary oiForeign Affairs being Mr. Webster. Now, what he wanted to know of the Noble Lord was, first, whether there had been any change in the lan guage of the United States Government since the ac cession of a new Government to power ? It should always be recollected, and this should have been the an swer given to Mr. Fox, that on the establishment of Government in the United States they had declared they considered themselves amenable to the international law established among civilized nations in Europe. The sole medium of communication with other nations was through the Federal Government by means of the President and the people of the United States had no more notion of New York as an independent state than the people of England had of the county of Rutland being so. Such, he conceived, ought to have been the answer made to Mr. Forsyth when ho claimed for New York authority over a British subject. However, he (Mr. Roebuck) wanted now to ascertain those facts. He had written them down, and he would put them into the Noble Lord's hands in a written form, that he might not mis take the nature of the questions. First, he wished to know whether her Majesty's Government by any formal declaration had assumed all the responsibility of the attack on the Caroline ? and then he wanted to know whether the Government of the United States had ad mitted that responsibility, and demanded reparation for the outrage and injury thus done to the United States, because it should be always recollected that, if they demanded reparation for the injury done to the United States by that attack, it did not lie with them to turn round and say, that New York w as the only power that had jurisdiction in that matter ? Next, he wished to ask whether her Ma jesty's Government had stated to the Government of the United States in the case of M‘Leod that he had acted under the commands of superior officers with the express sanction of her Majesty ? Fourthly, he wanted to ask whether her Majesty's Go vernment had demanded of the Government of the United States whether after such declaration it was able, and at the same time willing, to guarantee the safety and liberation of Mr. M‘Leod, notwithstanding any determination of the State of New York to go on with the proceed ings now pending in the Courts of that State against that 'gentleman ? and, lastly, he should ask if the Government of the United States admitted the validity of such authority as a protection over M`Leod ? and if having so admitted it, if the Noble Lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs could state any circumstance which justified the continued detention of Mr. M`Leed by the authority of the State of New York ? He thought it would turn out that things had been stated which would ease the minds of the people of this country with respect to this subject, and it was with that object in view that he proposed the above question. Lord PALMERSTON said That he would be the last man in that House in any way to curtail whatever in formation he might be able to give on any subject. However, he felt himself bound to remark, that the proceedings on the part of the Hon. Member who had just sat down, were some what irregular. He was sure the House would say; that if questions upon an emergency of great difficulty were preceded by a sort of narrative of transactions to which they related, and interspersed with interrogations, it became very difficult for the person who was to answer those interro gations, to refrain from going at length into the subject to which these questions referred, and thus, under the form of asking a question, a ,debato might be brought on involving topics of great national importance. He had no doubt that the statement which he was about to make would tend to relieve the minds of many persons who might think that the present state of the question, with regard to Mr. M'Leod, was one likely to bring on any serious difference between the two countries. The narrative of the Hon. Member was, he believed, substantially correct. He had no paticalar re mark to make upon it. It was quite true, as he stated, that upon the first demand made by her Majesty's Government for the liberation of Mr. M‘Leod, an answer was returned by the late Secretary of State in America, which was by no means satisfac tory, and he was quite ready to admit that as a doctrine of international law, no one country had a right to state in reply to a demand of redress of a wrong done to another country, or to a subject of another country, that it had peculiar institutions. Nations being to each other as aggregate communities, one nation could know nothing of the International laws or the internal constitution of another. If a wrong were done, redress must be given, and if the laws and consti tution of the country did not give that redress, they must either alter the laws and constitution, or sub mit to the alternative.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Now, although the first reply was, as he thought, entirely wrong as a principle of international law, yet he had the satisfaction to inform the Honourable Mem ber and the House, that from the present Govern ment of the United States a communication had been received, of a formal instruction given to the Attorney- General of the United States, which contained doctrines perfectly just and consistent with the law of nations, and perfectly in accordance with the principles upon which the British Government had demanded the re lease of Mr. M‘Leod, and the passage which he should read from the instructions of the Attorney-General —an instruction given by Mr. Webster—answered at once two, and perhaps more, of the questions of the Honourable Member, because it showed that the British Go vernment had avowed their entire responsibility of the attack made upon the Caroline, and that the American Government considered that question as one to be dealt with between the two Governments, and to tally unconnected in any way whatever with the ques tion how Mr. M‘Leod H as to be dealt with. This in struction was dated the 15th March in the present year, from Mr. Webster to W. Crittenden, the Attorney ' General of the United States, who was proceeding • to New York - on business connected with the States. He recited, in the first place, that Which had passed, why Mr. M'Leod had been arrested, and on what ground, and it then said—" I have now to inform you that Mr. Fox has addressed a letter to Mr. Barclay, dated the 12th inst., in which, under the imme diate instruction and direction of his .Government, he demands Mr. M'Leod's immediate release, on the grOund that the transaction on account ofwhich he has been arrested, and is now to be put on his trial, was of a public character, planned and executed by persons duly empowered by her Majesty's colonial authorities. to take any steps, and to do any acts, which might be necessary for the protection of her Majesty's Canadas, and the defence of her Majesty's subjects ; and that, consequently, those subjects of her Majesty who had been engaged in that transaction, b were performine an act of public diity, for which they cannot be made, personally and individually, answerable to the laws and tribunals of any foreign country.—(Hear.) And that her Mujettfs,.., „Government - had further directed Mr. Pox to make known to -the Government of the United States that her Majesty's Government entirely approved of the course pur sued by Mr. Fox, and the, language adopted by him in his correspondence. Mr. Webster went on to say, " There is, therefore, now an authentic declaration, on the part of the British Government, that the attack upon the Caroline was an act of public force done by military men, acting under the orders of supe riors, and recognized us such by the Queen's Ministers. The importance of' this declaration was not to be ques tioned, and the present President is of opinion that it calls upou him, in the performance of his high duty, to state that the individual acting under the authority of , his Government, as part of a ,public force, is not to be held as a private trespasser or malefactor, and that that is a principle sanctioned by the usages of all civilized nations, and which the Government of the United States has no inclination to dis pute. 7- (Hear, hear.) This has no connection whatever with the question of whether in this case the attack on the Caroline was, as the British Govern ment thinks it was, a justifiable employment of military force for the purpose of defending British territory from an unprovoked attack, or whether it was a most unjustifiable invasion of its territories in time of peace as this Government asserts. The two questions are essentially different, and while acknowledging that an individual may stand exempted from the consequences of his act, by showing that he acted under competent authority, this Government is not to be understood as changing its opinion with regard to the character of the transaction which resulted in the destruction of the Caroline. That subject it is not necessary, for the objects of this corre spondence, to discusa.. Alt that is. intended te be said at present is, that since the attack of the Caroline is viewed as a national act, which may justify- reprisals or a general war, as the United States Government may seem fit to decide, yet it raises a question entirely public and political—a question between independent na tions—and that the individual concerned in it cannot be arrested and tried before the ordinary tribunals as for a violation of municipal law. If the attack on the Caroline was unjustifiable, as this Government has asserted, the law violated is the law of nations, and the redress to be sought is the redress authorized in such cases by that code. You are well aware that the Presi dent has no power to resist the proceedings in the civil Courts of New Y or k. If thi s was an indictment in one of the Courts of the United States, I am directed to say that the President, on the receipt of Mr. Fox's last com munication to Mr. Forsyth, would have directed a neUi prosequi to be entered."—(Cheers.) Nothing, in his opinion, could be more honourable to the Govern ment of the .United States, or more satisfactory to the British Government, than that public declaration. He thought that he had now answered all the questions of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman except one,- which was, whether the Government of the United States made their demands as for an injury done to the United States, or the State of New York alone. Unquestionably the demand was, from the first, placed upon the ground of an injury done to the United States— (Hear)—and in the last Session of Parliament, when he (Lord Pahnerston) had a few words to say upon this subject, lie stated that it was therefore impossible for the United States to turn round and deny redress on the ground that this was a question between Great Britain and the State of New York..--(Hear, hear.) It was true that the constitution of the United States placed all matters between the States and foreign Pow ers in the hands of the Federal Government. The constitution said that " No State shall enter into any treaty with foreign Powers, nor make war, nor grant letters of marque," or flo certain other things " without the consent of Congress. *No State, without the consent of Congress, shall keep an army or ships of war in time of peace, or do any act of war, except in case of imminent danger."—(Hear, hear.) it was perfectly trite that this question could no more be said to be between Great Britain and the State of New yerk, than, if America had felt herself aggrieved by (beat Britain, it could be said that the question was fiitween America and the county of Rutland.—(hear.) The Hon. and Learned Gentleman had said that in the outset of the affair the Government of Great Britain ought to have sent a special envoy to the state of New York. But that would be, in fact, a nullification or denial of the constitution of the United States—{Hear, hear)—and the latter would be entitled to. resent it as an affront.—(Hear, hear.)" He (Lord Palmerston) would not enter now into any statement or speculation as to what was to come.—(Hear, hear.) He would not anticipate what step the United States would take to carry out those principles of international law'which Federal Governments had so handsomely recognized.—(Cheers.) THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY, AUGUST 27, 1841. THE SYRIAN WAR. Sir CHARLES NAP,tER took that, opportktnity of in qUiring whether it was intended to giielompensation to the peaceable inhabitants of Syria, whose houses were de stroyed, their trees cut down, and. their plantations ruined by the necessary operations of the British troops in the recent war ? and also, whether it was intended to give compensation to the inhabitants of St. Jean d'Acre for their losses under similar circumstances ? Lord PALMERSTON was happy in being able to state to his Gallant Friend that he had that very morning received a despatch from Lord Ponsonby, in closing a copy of a renewed order sent by the Porte to the Governor of Acre, to make full remuneration in both the cases to which his Hon. and Gallant Friend had re• ferred.—(Hear.) THE LEVANT. Dr. BOWRING wished to know when the sequence of the correspondence on the affairs of the Levant would be laid before the House. Lord PALMERSTON said that ho laid it on the table the first day of the Session. DISCUSSION ON PETITIONS. Mr. WALLACE postponed the following motion till Tuesday, which he had given notice to bring for ward to-day :—" That the usage which has prevailed of late years, of abstaining from discussing the petitions of the people at the time of their pre sentation, shall not be sanctioned in the present Parlia ment, but that the practice which prevailed in the House prior to the period referred to, of discussing Petitions at the time of their presentation, shall be restored." METROPOLITAN IMPROVEMENTS. On the motion of Sir M. WOOD, the following Mem bers were appointed as a Select Committee to take into consideration any plans for the improvement of the me tropolis which they may deem worthy of their con sideration; and also the petitions which had been presented to this Hous e in the last Parliament for the purchase of the interests of the proprietors of Wa terloo, Southwark, and Vauxhall Bridges, in order to their being immediately opened to the use of the public free from toll, and to report their opinion as to the expediency of adopting any of the said improvements ; and also, as to the best means of carrying the same into effect :—Sir Matthew Wood, Sir Robert Peel, Sir Robert Harry Inglis, Viscount Lowther, Mr. Pen darves, Sir William Clay, Colonel Thomas Wood, Mr. George Palmer, Mr. Tufnell, Mr. Barnard, Mr. Rigby Wason, Mr. Wakley, Sir Benjamin Hall, Mr. Planta, Mr. Kemble, Mr. Alderman Humphery, and Mr. Hawes. THE QUARANTINE LAWS. Dr. BOWRING had reason to know that. the Noble Lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs had instituted extended inquiries on the subject of quarantine gene rally. The correspondence on the subject would be of much use if made public, and therefore he hoped no opposition would be offered to the motion of which he had given notice. He then moved for " Copies of any correspondence, from the year 1837, which may have taken plac e bet ween th e Foreign-office and the British authorities in the Levant, on the subject of the plague, and quarantine as a protec tion therefrom ; also, any correspondence with Foreign Governments with a view to regulating and improving the quarantine system."—Agreed to. The Honour able Gentleman then said, he believed great errors existed in the public mind as to the amount of taxation levied on landin the different countries of Europe ; and, as a perfect knowledge of the facts would greatly assist the debates which must ensue, he trusted the assistance of the Government would be given in obtaining it. He moved for a " Return of the amount of takes levied on land in the different States of Europe; distinguish ing the taxes raised for the service of the State from those levied for local purposes ; the re turn to show the amount in the moneys and measures of the different States, and to be rendered into British moneys and measures. Also, returns exhibiting the proportion borne by the land-tax (as approximatively as it can be estimated) to the value or rental of land in the different countries of Europe." Mr. LABOUCHERE wished to call the attention of the House to the nature of the return which had been moved for. It was a return not for any information connected with this Country but with foreign countries.-- (Hear, hear.) He did not mean to say but th a t h e considered it very desirable that such information should be laid before the House, as he considered it:calculated to throw great light on many subjects on which they would be called on to legislate ; but they ought to b e careful in what shape they asked for information of this decrip tion. It could only be obtained through the medium of our Consuls, and he doubted if they could obtain accurate information. He took blame to himself for not having considered the nature of the returns, and spoken to his Honourable Friend on the sub ject, but he would suggest to him to move for them in a more general shape. If his lion. Friend would postpone his motion until to-morrow lie would in the meantime con sider the subject, and endeavour to put itinto such a shape as to obtain the information desired ; but he cer tainly must object to asking for information of a defi nite and precise nature from our Consuls abroad, when it could hardly be expected that the information which they could furnish would be accurate. He, there fore, thought it would be better to postpone the motion, and bring it forward again in a more general shape. Dr. BOWRING acceded to the request of his Right Hon. Friend, and would bring forward the motion to morrow.—Motion withdrawn. NAVAL HALF-PAY. Mr. J. PARKER moved for leave to bring in a dill to amend Acts as to Naval Half-pay. The object of the Bill was to enable mates and naval instructors to draw bills at three months for their half-pay on the Account ant-General, instead of six months, as at present. .Leave was given, and the Bill was brought in and r&td A first time. - ANTARCTIC DISCOVERItS. Lord ASHLEY moved for copies of such extracts from the despatch of Captain James Ross, from Van Dieman's Land, as will show to the House the nature and extent of the brilliant discoveries' hich are said to have been made in a high southern latitude by her Ma jesty's ships Erebus and Terron—Ordered. On the motion of Mr. TUFNELL, Mr. Patrick Stew art was added to the Printing Committee. ELECTION PETITIONS. Petitions were presented against the returns for the town of Belfast and the borough of Lewes. The peti tions were ordered to lie upon the table. THE ADJOURNED DEBATE. The Order of the Day having been read for resuming the Adjourned Debate, Lord SANDON rose and said, that he did not rise for the purpose of . entering, at least at any length, into those questions of economical policy which form so large and prominent a portion of the Speech put into the mouth of her Majesty, and a still larger and more prominent portion of the speeches of those who had preceded him in the debate. lie did not think that in following such a course he should be doing that which was the natural result of the course of events passing around them, or that he should be doing that which wmild meet the expectations of those constituents which had sent them to that House. However convenient it might be within the walls of that House, or elsewhere, to represent the ' struggle which had just been concluded as a struggle between monopoly and anti-monopoly—to state that there was no other question at issue than whether 1 or not the measures brought forward by her Majesty's Go vernment under the shape and disguise of the Budget were indeed approved of by the - people of this coati try—how ever convenient it might be to certain parties to put the question in that shape ; yet such was not the question which had in effect been tried before the country, anti such was not the question on which they had been commanded to decide.. Hesilid boldly that* was not the question which the Government themselves had intended to put, because the late dissolution had not taken place upon the question of the sugar duties, or the corn duties, or the timber duties. With regard to the corn and timber duties, neither the one nor the other had been brought under the consideration of the I louse of Commons, and they could never have given a justifica tion for the late dissolution. With regard to the ques tion of sugar, he could not conceive that upon that qeestion or the time or degree in which 'tlie prAteettoft nowm - iffrottett - "To-Othe colonial .i.— terests might be affected, her Majesty's Govern ment were at all entitled to call for the assertion of the feelings of the people by convening the Parliament. The real question which had compelled her Majesty's Go vernment to appeal to the sense of the people was this—that the last House of Commons did ,clearly and distinctly vote their want of confidence in the Ministry, and that was the real question- upon which the country had to decide.—(Hear, from the Opposition benches.) That was the admitted cause which drove her Miljesty's Ministers to try the desperate chance of a dissolution. If the ques tion simply related to particular measures, the Govern ment had already had experier.-2e enough the year before, and during the earlier part of the Session, which would give them an excuse for trying a dissolution, if they thought it would serve their pur poses. But it was not until they bad devised new expe dients for the purpose of diverting public attention from the great question of their 'administrative policy, which had produced so deep an impression on the public mind. It was not until that House had expressed by its vote its want of confidence in their management of affairs, that they had recourse to a dissolution. He, there fore, thought that was the question which the country had to answer ; and he could say for himself, that the question upon which he had appealed to his own constituents, was not simply whether the sugar of the Brazils should be admitted at one time or another, subject to one form or another of competition. lle could assure them that lie did not appeal to his con stituents as to the particular mode of protec tion which should be afforded to domestic agri culture (Cheers) —he did not appeal to them as to the protection to be given to colonial timber or the mode of that protection—but the great question which he submitted to his constituents was, whether or not the country had confidence in theadministration ofaffairs byher Majesty's Ministers, and whether, even if they agreed in certain . points of the commercial policy, they were pre pared, in consequence of that agreement, to give their condonation for the past, and fresh licence for the future. He had stated to them what he had stated to that House i • that if they agreed, which they did not, on any one of those questions, they were not to be induced by agreement on these points to sa crifice those greater interests which were involved . in the question whether they should have one Admiiiis- tration or the other. He had told them—and lie begged the House to remember—that. feelings had been excited within the country and the House by the con duct of Ministers ; on other points, on questions of still higher importance, he had appealed to them, whether they approved of their Irish Administration, of their measures respecting the Church, with regard to education, with regard to the distribution of patronage, and of magisterial offices and honours, and on all these questions, affecting more deeply the interests of men than whether the mode of protection should be that of a fixed duty or a sliding scale, or whether Bri tish sugar and colonial timber should be admitted at one rate or another—on much greater questions than these did he appeal to his constituents, and he received not only a verdict but the highest expressions of ap. probation.—(Cheers.) These were the grounds on which the great majority of the Conservative party had been returned to the House. The constituencies had despised the bait held out the tub thrown to the whale—and would not permit the real issue to be withdrawn, and u feigned one sub stituted in its place. (Loud cheers.) The real question at issue between the proposition of her Majesty's Government and the Conservatives, was nob the question of free trade one way • or the other. Between the language of the Government and their proposition there was a wide difference. Their language was that of free trade, but they had heard of little professions in any part of the em pire of adherence to the specific proposition of the Government. The question was, so far as it was a commercial question, whether there should be protection to commercial industry or not. The particular degree was not the question submitted to the constituencies of England.—(Hear.) The question had been distinctly put before them, " Have you such confidence in her Majesty's Ministers for the future as to be willing to entrust them with the further administration of this country;" and whether men agreed with the Government degree of protection, or whether they differed, he believed the constituences of England had been governed by this great consideration, and it was to this, their determination, the House was called upon to give effect, otherwise they would betray the principles they had professed and the interests which had been confided to them.—(Hear, hear.) With these views, he thought they were called on not to go into detail on any of those questions that were Submitted to them in the Queen's Speech, but to carry . into effect the verdict which the consti tuencies of England have returned.—(Hear, hear.) These were the short and simple grounds on which he gave his support to the amendment. It was not that he was indifferent to the question which been introduced into • the discussion it was not that he was indifferent to the sufferings of the popu lation of this country, or blind to the distress under which it was now labouring in the commercial and ma nufacturing districts—but it was that he thought the management of questions like those would be more safely trusted to other hands than those of the present Government. He believed that whenever the questions at issue had been put fairly before the con stituencies, the feeling which had been expressed was that they were neither satisfied with the details of the proposed measures mr with the principles upon which those measures were founded. He did not mean to say that in sending him to Parliament the con stituency which he had the honour to represent had declared that they preferred a sliding scale to a fixed duty on corn ; but he believed that they had distinctly stated that they were in favour of protection. He had not the least intention of entering, on that occa sion, into a discussion of the Corn-laws, because he thought it was impossible, at that period, to do so with advantage ; but he would repeat then, what he had be fore stated, both in that House and elsewhere, that, with regard to the principle of the sliding scale, he was not only ready, but anxious to see it maturely consi dered, with a view to the removal of those evils which undoubtedly arose at present, and he believed that not only the commercial, but the agricultural classes also, were prepared for the fullest discussion. He would not follow up all the topics brought under consideration in the discussion on the Budget last Session, but he would say, that that discussion had naturally led him to look a . little into the question of sugar duties, and be saw no reason for that despondency which seemed to be enter tained on the other side upon the subject. (The Noble Lord here went into some details respecting the price of sugar at a former period and at the present time, but was quite inaudible in the gallery.) lie was understood to say, that with respect to the predictions which were made as to the supply of sugar from the East and West Indies, and the Mauritius, he would not now go into detail. He would only say that there was no ground whatever for the assertion that the country would be exposed to serious inconvenience from a deficient supply of sugar, if the importation of the foreign production was not permitted. He would not further occupy the time of the House. They were now about to deliver the ver dict which was called for by the last elections, and which it was their duty to deliver before her Majesty's Government could submit any important measure to Parliament.--(Hear.) Mr. MILNER GIBSON had expected to hear some important statement from the Noble Lord who repre sented such large and important commercial interests in that House.--(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord divided his speech into two parts. The first was a careful de finition of the question before the House ; but he (Mr. Gibson) preferred to take for his guide, as to the nature of that question, the Address which had been pro posed, and the amendment subsequently moved.—(Hear, hear.) He had little interest in those party discussions in which the Noble Lord delighted to indulge. He be lieved that the country felt little interested in them. He believed that all interest in them was con fined to the privileged class to which the Noble Lord be longed, and which now stood upon the threshold o f office. Ire was surprised that the Noble Lord should make light of the important questions which were really be fore the House.—(Hear, hear.) It was known to every man, woman and child in the.,country that there were in that House more Member favourable to Sir Robert Peel than to Lord Melbourne.—(Cheers and great laughter.) Why, then, say any more about it ?—(Re newed cheering and laughter.) It could do nothing more than cause unpleasant recollections on that side of the house.—(Great laughter amongst the Tories.) The feast is prepared for you—(said th e Hon. Gentleman, addressing the Opposition)—and you will partake of it in due time- —but bide your time—and let us employ in the meanwhile what time we have remaining, in the dis cussion of the important questions which the Queen has recommended to our consideration.—(Great cheering.) However, the Noble Lord, in the second part of his speech, when he talked of the questions before the House and the country, forgot what he had previously stated, and said the question was between protection and free trade, and had nothing to do with the propositions of her Majesty's Mininisters. The Noble Lord was somewhat correct in that statement, as it did materially involve the question of whether they should have a protective or a free trade ; and he believed that the majority of those who gave their earnest and zealous support to the proposition of her Majesty's Ministers, with reference to the Bs. duty, and tbr the relaxation of their commercial code, felt that it was a step towards an end; and he contended that those who proposed the Bs. duty only brought it a day the nearer when the duty should be repealed altogether.—(Cheers.) The Noble Lord had talked a great deal about the constituents who had returned him, and doubtless Liverpool was a very important commer cial town. But if they analyse the votes which returned the Noble Lord to Parliament, they would find that he was not returned to that House by the majority of the householders, the merchants, and bankers of Livepool, but he owed his seat to that pure and virtuous body, the freemen of Liverpool. Therefore he did not con sider that he really represented the sentiments of the town of Liverpool on that important question.— (Ironical cheers and cries of "Order.") The SPEAKER said the Hon. Member must be aware to state that any Hon. Member did not represent the constituency which returned him to Parliament, was out of order. Mr. GIBSON was far from saying that he did not represent legally the constituency of Liverpool. He was going to say he wished it was the law of the land, that the body of men who influenced that election should not have the political power they at present possessed. In the latter part of his speech the Noble Lord had said, in reference to the existing distress, " Take courage—don't despond—for that was not enough." He supposed he meant they should trust to what the Right Hon. Baronet should do when he came into power. But the Right Hon. Gentleman had left the matter in doubt as to what he should do. Much had been said of the im portance of not agitating the country, as it might prevent persons from investing their capital. 43ut the indistinct. ness of the Right Hon. Baronet was nittch more likely to produce these results. It was known that the Right lion. Baronet was coming into power, and whatever measures he thought proper he would be able to . carry into effect. That, he thought, the Noble Lord could not deny. A symptom of this uncertainty had already been perceived ; for a Noble Duke in another place had said that if the Right Hon. Baronet did anything with re spect to the alteration of the Corn-laws, he would do so and so. Did the Noble Duke, he would ask, make that statement without a supposition in his mind that the in distinctness of the Right Hon. Baronet meant something? He was certain that the Right Hon. Baronet was a man that would not depart from the sound system of policy of yielding to the pressure of the times when it was no longer safe to resist. In his speech upon the Catholic Question, if he (Mr. Gibson) recollected rightly, the Right Hon. aronet had laid it down as a principle which ought to be placed in every statesman's manual. He was convinced that, at the present moment, such was the state of the commercial interests, and so great was the distress and the difficulty of finding employment for labourers, that there would be such a spirit of dissension in the country before long, that the Right Hon. Baronet would be unable to resist the repeal of the Corn-laws, and a complete relaxation of the commercial code. He was surprised at the speech of an Hon. Member opposite, —he did not know where he was Member for—(Several Members called out for Inverness)—but he was re markable for having come forward to ask for a vote of public money in order to enable his perishiug country men to go to foreign lands. (Hear, hear.) He was astonished to hear him doing that very thing which Hon. Gentlemen on the other side always depre cated, making use of exciting and inflammatory lan guage—(Hear, hear) —in reference to classes—(Cheers) —and when the Hon. Gentleman talked about the mercy of the master manufacturers, of their tender mercies in employing infants, and getting rid of adults, he went on to tell the House of the tender feelings of the agri culturists, the farmers, and the landed aristocracy, and described each as acting under the influence of more generous tendency than the master manufacturers. Was anything. he would ask, more improper than such statements ? To what. good would they lead ?—(Cheers.) The Honourable Gentleman, when he described his scenes of rural felicity, must permit him to remind him of some circumstances that took place in 1839, with respect to the high price of corn. On the 14th of February, 1839, at a sitting of the Board of Guardians of the Grantham Union, it was proposed by the Duke of Rutland, seconded by Mr. G. Gregory, and unanimously resolved, " That the Board, considering that during the high price of bread, the independent la bourers are consuming barley bread or wheaten bread mixed with barley, while wheaten bread only is distri buted to the paupers, and being desirous to diminish the oonsumption of wheaten bread, in order that the distress of the labourers may be the sooner alleviated, resolved that the bread given to the paupers be of the same qua lity as that used by the independent labourers in that district--(Hear, hear)—and this, be it remembered, was at a time when the agricultural labourers ought to be in a condition of great prosperity, yet at the same time they were obliged to have recourse to coarser food.-L-(Cheets.) But the Hon. Gentleman, and most of those who had argued on the question, and even the Noble Lord, had agreed with them, and pretended that the manufacturer wanted bread cheap in order to reduce wages, and so lessen the cost of production in order to allow them to compete with the foreign manufacturer. That was a complete and entire misunderstanding-. They merely wished to obtain the power of selling; because, if they could not take in exchange for their goods, the produce of other countries, no barter could take place. A gentleman who appeared at the late Conference from America stated that the people of America did not want our manufactures cheaper. What they wanted was the power of paying for them, and that they were prevented from doing, because this coun try would not take their corn. It was freedom of ex change that was wanted.—(Cheers.) The question as to high prices or low prices when the Corn-laws are repealed would be an idle and a curious speculation, which would amuse but could not lead to any profitable result. On what principle of justice, he would ask, did they deprive one class of the community to their right to freedom of exchange?—(Cheers.) He contended that the wheat bronght into this country from foreign lands was as much the produce of British industry as if it had been grown on our own fields.--(Hear.) He was prepared to support a proposition for an entirely free trade in corn, and he supported the Ministerial pro position for an Bs. duty, simply because, as had been wittily observed by the Hon. and Learned Member for Cork, he hoped they would some day or other be able to send the Bs. after the rest.—(Cheers and laughter.) He did not wish to attack particular classes, or to im pute unworthy motives to any Gentleman ; it was not a right mode of conducting public questions ; but he must consider it as an unfortunate coincidence that the pecu niary interest of those gentlemen who were favourable to the Corn-laws should so closely coincide with the maintenance of the laws to which they gave their politi cal support, and simple-minded people might be apt to consider that those laws had been enacted by a Parlia ment of landowners for their own pecuniary advantage. Far be it from him to deny that Hon. Gentlemen oppo site were actuated by the most sincere, honest, and dis interested motives. Doubtless they supported those laws only for national objects. They were men who would " -- Do good for nought, and blush to find it gain." They accepted the benefit which they derived from the Corn-laws rather as a circumstance which they could not help than as an advantage to be desired. Their only objects were national ones ; they desired to keep England independent of foreign countries for food, and to provide permanent employment for our growing population. As for providing employment, however, for our growing population the Corn-laws did not provide employment even for our agricultural population. From 1821 to 1831, whilst the whole population of the country had greatly increased, the agricultural population h a d considerably diminished, being less by li,ooo fa m ili es in 1831 than it had been in 1821, and they kn ew b y the Reports of the Poor - law Commissioners that pauperism was more per head in the agricultural districts than in the manufacturing ones.—(Hear, hear.). It was clear, therefore, that the Corn-laws could not provide em ployment for the agricultural population.—(Cheers.) And even if they could, he would ask what justice was they interfer e d w i t h the another c l ass out — it to enact a law for the purpose of keeping one' class in (ll ear employment ,or whilstby keepingt natural right of freedom of ; F xell ange, they kept out of employment the manufacturing p opu l ation, while, at the same time, they did not find employment for the agricul tural population.—(Loud cheers,),. find employment for the agricultural Population , it would be unjust to find employment for them by such a And even if they did mea sure.—(Cheers.) He trusted they would have a debate on that question, and would not so far insult the country as to overlook those great interests on the present occa sion.—(Cheers.) Peopl e wou l d say that t h e Right Hon. Baronet had given directions to his party not to say one word except as to the want of confidence. They would say, that at the political assembly which, according to the Times newspape r , was held at the Right Hon. Baronet's residence o n S unday last, he knew not w h et h er d ur i ng hours of Divine service—(A laugh)—Hon. Members had employed th emselves in dev i s i ng some sc h eme t o g i ve the country no i n f ormat i on w h a tever on these important subjects, and to keep the great interests of.the country in ignorance as to their future intentions. He stood there as no party man.—(Cheers and laughter from the Tory Benches.) He repeated he was no party man, and had proved it by his co nduct.—(Cheers and counter cheers.) But he would tell Honourable Gentlemen oppo site that they would be wanting in respect to the country if they did not allude to those great questions of the Corn-laws, and the commercial tariff by the operation of which the co mmerc i a l c l asses of the country were pressed down to the earth.—(Loud cheering.) When he looked at Hon. Gentlemen oppo site with, many of whom ho was acquainted, for many of w h o m he felt a regard, and many of whom he knew to b e men of honest intentions, he could not but regret to l i eu the sneers with which last night many of the very important statem en t s o f hi s H on. Friend the Mem ber for Stockport had been met by Hon. Gentlemen emposite.—(Loud cheers from the Ministerial benches.) Ile regretted to hear the quotations from Scripture which that Hon. Gentleman had introduced into his .speech alluded to in the contemptuous manner in which they had been by Hon. Gentlemen on the other side the House. He for one thought that Scripture quotations should not be introduced unadvisedly into the discussion of political and financial questions, but a precedent for the introduction of Scripture quotations had been set by the other side of the House. —(Cheers.) What would they say vslea,ey, heard Dorchester had the Right Hon. Baronet the Member f or Dorchester had actually quoted Scripture in support of the Corn laws?—(Loud cheers). At a dinner which that Right Hon. Baronet had given to his constituents at Dorchester. he had actually quoted the Old Testament to show that the sliding scale had a Scripture foundation, because it was as near an approximation as possible to a total pro hibition. The Right Hon. Baronet had told his consti tuents that he could not entertain any doubt but that passage had been written for their instruction.—(Loud cheers.) After that he trusted Hon. Gentlemen oppo site would say no more about the impropriety of quoting Scripture on the subject of the Corn-laws.—(Cheers.) But Hon. Gentlemen opposite were themseves guilty of every crime which they laid to the charge of men on his (Mr. Gibson's) side of the House. They were agitators, Witness the agitation at Exeter Hall—(Cheers)—wit ness their agitation against education—witness the agi tation for church extension carried on under the guidance of his Hon. Friend the Member for the University of Ox ford.—(Cheers.) All he regretted was that the agita tion of Gentlemen on his side of the House in favour of commercial reform had not been so successful as the agi tation of Hon. Gentlemen opposite. It had, however, been successful to a coin iderable ex ten t.—(Ministerial cheers.) The Hon. Member for Maidstone had boasted that his party had increased its numbers during the recent elec tions, while that of the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies had diminished. But if the party of the Noble Lord had diminished, the Anti-Corn-law party had increased, and so far the dissolution had succeeded ; and all they wanted was time and agitation and the dis semination of the writings of such men as Dr. Chalmers and the Rev. Baptist Noel—(Hear, hear)—all they wanted was to spread abroad such writings, and to appeal to the good sense and feeling of the people, and he was certain that the Corn-laws or the bread-tax, as it was called by his Hon. Friend the Member for Stockport., would raise an opposition similar to that which had led to a repeal of negro slavery. Hon. Gentlemen opposite had formerly said that slavery was for the advantage of the negroes, as they now said that a scarcity of food was. for the advantage of the consumers of food.—(Hear, hear, - and laughter.) But he was persuaded that the people of England were not to be deluded by such a, fallacy. The Corn-laws, they might depend ,upon it, must be repealed ; they were inconsistent with the first principles of justice, and they must fail. The Noble Lord the Member for Liverpool had al luded to our trade with the Brazils. Now. it. - should be remembered that our treaty with the Brazils would soon come to a conclusion ; and at t 1 present moment the Brazilian Government levied a duct. of 20 per cent. upon our manufactures, while we ituptrsea a duty of 30 per cent. upon their sugar. It - cou ld hardly be expected that our relati ons w ith that country could long continue in such a state. The, : 1;oble Lord the Member for Liverpool must be aware tkat a very con siderable portion of the revenue was derived from the sugar duties, and that the consumption of sugar in this country, per head, was now less than it had been forty years ago. He must also be aware that while an im mense quantity of Brazilis.r sugar was now lying in bond in Liverpool, many manufacturers engaged in the Brazilian trade were ols,liged to cease working, because they could not longer invest their capital in dead stock lying in bonded warehouses. Now, what excuse could there be for keeping sugar in bonded warehouses, while the revenue was declining and our people were suffering from a want of that necessary of life ? Its value was 2d. per pound, while they placed upon it a duty of 7id., for the purpose of preventing its being used. They allowed. it to be sent out to the blacks of Jamaica and to other countries, while they refused to their own popu lation at home the advantage of purchasing it at a cheap price. Could they point out any reason—(Hear, hear) — whatever for keeping up the duty on sugar at its present amount ? Their justification would not be found in a desire to consult for the interest of the negroes, for he ventured to say that it would not be for the advantage of the negroes that the cultivation of sugar should ems'', altogether. The Noble Lord the 'Member for Liverpool had said that the West India Colonists were. placed;, n a very peculiar and unprecedented position in conseo:a e n ce of the passing of the Emancipation Act; and therefore it would not be advisable to tamper with the laws regulat ing our trade with th ose co l on i es . B u t t h e Noble Lord. could merely allege that in consequence of the Emanci pation Act the cost of producing sugar in Jamaica had increased. The proposition, however, of the Govere.- ment would give a protection to the West India produr..ers far more than equivalent to that increased cost ofytoduc tion. There was an end, therefo-2e, of that o l L,jection ; and he was utterly at a loss to Irtow upon wkat principle the proposition of the Noble Lord could be,justified. The Hon. Member then conckided amidst the cheers of the Ministerial party, by. thanking the House for the atten tion it bad given Mtn. Mr. BORTUWICK said the question before the House was not one of corn, timber, or sugar, but who could pro pound these questions with any chance of bringing them to a. practical issue. If the Government went into the question it would not be able to propose measures to the House with any chance of success. But he should be prepared on a future occasion to‘Show that there was no connection whatever between the Corn-laws and the dis tress which existed in the agricultural and manufacturing districts ; that whether the protection afforded to api culture was that of a fixed duty or a sliding scale, in re ality it had no connection whatever with commercial &s -tress. The Hon. Member for - Bath had stated that her Majesty's Government had grown unpopular in the coun try because they had not advanced in what he called libe rality. If that were the case, one might have thought that the result of the elketiens would have been` to in crease the extreme section of Liberals, instead of filling the benches on that (the Opposition) side of the house. He admitted that the first practical result which should follow the decision of the blouse on the questions now before it must necessarily be the determining of who should in future govern this great country. He said who, in reference to the two sides of the House, not in reference to any two sections of individuals in that House. n l c 3a ed ron t e o t, a t .e h m e, h ll „ f s em pu b r e p r o f s o e r s, Tarn Many compl a i n t s i ssue d from Hon. Gentl emen oppos i te, haed ii h t her t n li t a a j li t e m s o t o n y u . sup posingthat‘becoratuhrhtcalled tie Right Hon. Gentleman to her councils. It would 1.,e, in his opinion, a great in decency on the part of tke Right Hon. Baronet to rise up and offer his servie,es to the Crown, as if setting them up to auction, lie 'would not sit down without saying, in respect to Irciand, that he hoped, whatever Govern meat was formed, it would turn its attention to conciliate the people of that country, and to do justice to all par ties, without distinction of Catholic or Prot es t an t. H e had seen in the Arth of Spain that the Catholic religion was capable of producing the best moral effects, and if in Ireland the priests abused the influence of the sacred, office, they ought to be punished in their civil, not in their ecclesiastical character. He would vote for the amend ment, in order that the country might have a Govern ment capable of giving full effect to useful measures. Mr. S. O'BRIEN thought the course adopted by lion. Gentlemen opposite only shows that they felt themselves. worsted in the discussion of the important questions rd fermi to in the Speech, and were eager to walk into office, upon their votes alone. In the whole o f hi s public life he had never seen a more pitiful course than that which had been pursued by Conservative statesmen for the last three months.--(Rear.) The Right lion. Baronet said he would not give an opinion until he had received his fee. Such an argument might very pro- perly be applied to a game at chess ; but he thought that, as a Member of that House, interested in the public welfare, the Hon. Baronet was bound to do all in his power to sustain the commercial character of this country.—(Hear.) The Hon. Member who had moved the amendment had complained that the Whig Govern ment had not fulfilled the promises given by Lord Grey in 1630, of peace, retrenchment., and reform. He would say one word with respect so economy. Had the reproach on that subject come from the late Hon. Member for Kil kenny, it would have come with weight; but in his opinion it ill became those who had always stimulated the Go vernment to an in crease d expen di ture , to come forward with su c h a c h arge. —(Hear, hear.) The lion. Member had cond emne d the conduct pursue d w ith respect to China. It was we ll k now n that the policy of the Go vernment with respect to that country had received the approbati on o f t h e Bi g ht Hon. Baronet opposite. — (Bear, hear.) Th en awa i n with respect to the affair of Mr. M`Lecod, that, which also had been made a subject. of reproach, he thought the course pursued by some" Hon. Members w as equally to be regretted. If it were warm support to the He m . O'Brien) would render as Government, but he h ' • t oug at it necessary to assert the rights of this country, he (Mr. S. Earonet as to the present . to be deplored that an affair of that. 'nature IV " g reatly viewed in the should ever have been With r espect to the blame that had been attached to the Government for not acting up to that which th ey pro fessed, he had only to say that since is 5, th e y h a d brought forward three measures for the prtrpose of car rying out the object of appropriation which they had in view. As an Irish Member, he felt that, he ought to ex press his gratitude to the present Government for the course of policy they had pursued in Ireland.—(Hear,) They had governed that country in the only way in which it could be properly governed—namely, upon an equal footing with England.—(Hear.) ; In all their appointments of the executive of that county, they , had selected men eminently qualified to fill their stations, and, but for the law, with respect to Catholics, a most excellent and worthy man would have now been the Chancellor of Ireland. In stating what he had done, he did not wish it to be understood that he coincided in all. the details of the policy of the Government, but loekims at it generally, he thought it was good.—(Hear, he^..r.) As to the Corn-laws they had excited the greate;sr in terest in the country ; there was no question he believed in which so many petitions had been preunted to the House, and he felt confident, whatever Ministry was in power, something must be done with respect to them.— (Hear, hear.) For his own part he would do alt in his power to keep down the prices of corn to a fair and reasonable sale. As to the reforms that the present Government bad effected, he thought they had not been dealt frankly with by several Hon.. Members. He would ask any reasonable man whether the reforms in the Churzli, in the tithes and Church. rates were {not excellent measures. Then there was their plan of education, and the reduction of the postage, which he looked upon to be the greatest boon that had been conferred upon the people for ages. So also with respect, to the union of the Canadas—in short, all their administrative forms had effected great good, and en titled them to the gratitude of the country. Now, what e act, he would ask, had the Conservatives ever done to ntitle them to such a distinction ? For his own part he knew of none. It was true they had introduced the Controverted Elections Bill, and the Irish Registration Bill ; but he did not think that those measures were suf ficient to call for the gratitude of the country to them.. With respect to Ireland, that country had always been. cast aside by the Tories ; but he felt certain that they must take care how they governed her in future. Whe t Cher he considered the demerits of the present Goverg- VENING SUN J