The Sun. — London, England, 1828-02-19 00:00:00

the. CaMatron the *abject of Portugal,' l l.sitould be re collected, that, when that undertaking Was qiiectioned in Parliament, the, Pliable Duke had vindicated it in his place in the other blouse. The imputation, then, of illiberality in the . Duke of WellingtOn, and the charge of ibcbitsis tency brought against myself for taking office ander - bim, are alike unfounded. Sir, I feel it to be really impossible, notwithstanding the call made upon me by the Noble , Lord, to enter into a narrative ofall the explanations and under standings that have taken place between me and the Noble Duke at the head of. the Cabinet, previous to in accept ing the office which I have now the honour to hold. Ob servations, charging Inc with inconsistency in the discha r ge my public duty , have been levelled against my character in various ways. To take one of many instances in regard to the appointment of the Finance Committee—l have men accused of abandoning my principle s on that ques tion: • But how .does the case stand? In several interviews which I, ha& with the Noble Duke, and in the course , of which we •discussed. together the, various topics con nected with the formation and operation of the existing Covernment, it accidentally escaped my attention to ask a question relative to the Finance Committee; When the subject occurred tome,, I was at the moment - confined to ply Toom,byindisposition-;--mad I wrote to the 'Noble Duke for the purpose of ascertaining his feeling's and sentiments nn the subject. I hold in my hand the Noble ,INice's s.vritt en answer to that communication—it is perfectly and ,entirely satisfactory..—(Year.)—Let persons say what they -will of a pledge—a stipulation..—or a guarantee- 4 call the communication in question by notie of theie names—it is simply a question asked_ on my part, 'and -an answer given by the Noble Duke—(Hear) —but boad,---(Hear, hear, .hear.)—l again say, Sir, call it what you will--pledge— stipulation--or guarantee--still, I fearlessly ask whether; in this particular instance, the Finance Committee, : nomi mated on Friday evening by My Ri g ht Hon. Friend, the dome Secretary, has not in its construction—in the prin ciples of economy that may he expeeted to proceed from its Members —and in the investigation which it will, doubtless, be enabled to make into the income and expen ,neare of the country-1 fearlessly ask whether, ,in all .......,.. ... ___ _ . . these particulars- it does not appear, that the present G overnmen t h ave :folly, honourably, and completely re deemed its pledge ?—(llear, hear, hear. ).--.lf you' call this a tdedge, it is a pledge that has been rediemed,...., (Hear, hear, hear.)—Sir, I have exhausted myself and the House on the subject of explanations. I have given a statement with respect to what pulsed at Liverpool, avid Hon. Membere, I trust, • are satisfied. Having made this -atattrnent, I now declare, that I shall. net be compelled ever. ;Again to reiterate it, or return to the subje ill:v . any means which may be selected to force me to do ii: - Them is one more paint to which I am desiroes of a verting , hefere I *lit down.. A question has been put to in cis another place, where it is impossible that I could answer it. The quell:- lion to which I allude is this—Whether I had not 'declared shat I never would consent to forni part of an Adininistra. -don, of which the Duke of Wellington or my Right Hon. Friend near me (Mr. Peel) were Members ? Sir, I most - • • . ineqnivocally, moat positively, and moat distinctly deny :het I ever did make such - a declaration: , Looking to the quarter whence this question his been Prit-j—respe eting, as 'I do, the feelings of filial piety that 'dictated' it—and re vering with an almost:, equal degree of piety the memory 'of him whose fame the . feeling that dictated that qeestion ... _. alas mistakenly intended to protect---a say no . more upon a subject like the present, than to express my Opinion, that matters - So entirely and purely of a private iultnre, this, are not fit to undergo a - obn:discussion in Parliament. This, which is my firm ionvictiOn; in addition to the , place and manner in which the '.luestion WWI put,. ren- ' ders it unnecessary for me to add araatiw word. Sir,' I amwell aware that the necessary cense9.lzence of the course of policy I . hay.e.adopted—and the natural gesult of the principles I have long ha - sn in the habit of advocating— ',ls to expose my character to'olikisny, and niy motives to 'misrepresentation, by two opposite classes of the community. That part of it which Considers all improvement as dangerous iamovation, are naturally opposed to me. That other por tion of the public which, looking . Only at' abstract piaci plee, never allows for the existence, and avert of artificial .difficulties, and 'which alwairr. (.4rlooks the obstacles that stand i n ale w a y o f the Epplication of 'tlios.:, principles— whether theae--oheta.clee grow out of the ON istinz state: of society, its established feelings, or (if you will)" its honest but unwise prejudices-=this part also is hostile to a mode rate and practical reformer. t have endeavoured to 'steer a middle course, and I know that: . i Int 4 been despised and erensnred by the zealots of both, Rift, tie bog. as I shall ..}gave the honour tovetaie a'seat inlllis . tihio . long .as I shall have a place in file' i.f . cieiiiiC intlii r cilf;lti,l4 he faverned by the same principles ai c tru4'nnglitcli J hive hitherto acted: And, Sir",' I iiipecti. ILireesip t riiiani: my Noble and Right Hon. , - Friends ' 22 4 .rallkepea,ua Aloe. their countenance undt s urportlcifticise'kinciplee and Ines _mire, which I consider beneficial' to tht.'S.tafe,, le' lokg as they shall appear equally beneficial in the opinion of my Friends and le.olleagnes. If that slippert he relhied„ nino' what course to follow. I hold that a F4lllic man'is not at libeity to refuse to obey the rail of his Soregigz, or deprive, the State of his services, provided that there be ,noakipp in: the nature of that call, of in'thstexertiortlfllieiervr,ect,i, inconsistent with hiSliiriOnal horeauratitila ; :lz.itli his political character: '. 'SIM feel myseinjtitisituated,and .therefore have' I - olieyd the' eill'of mf: goi l a -- RIO,. 1 . I : feel bat the honour Which 1 enjoptiliar§kint ,of his 414jetty'a eonfidenre is far hey und my .. .h . ..i.mbre tiesetts. II am. per fectly aware of the great reopoitsibil4'littlile,„,,high. situa tion in which I have been placed,t r ipsfi r shi.Rcndea.vour td ' 4iseharge myself of it' aright. 'Thus honoured . ,l,have no more to seek—l have nn ferthei% degree of personal am:: ' bition to gratify. With' Idiani'iellage, increased intirluities : and impaired strength,' r cniittlWilliogly desire to•avail m i.,l self of the opportnnity of enjoying tranquillity awl . repose:; • Public duty keeps ma in the sitnatkin where ilie will o f my gracious Master Ims placed hie; but - Yilieli I " fi nd that _ i do not share the confidenea'and co-Opei:atleu an) y Col leagues, necessary to enable me to' execute my . ittuty, And' carry into effect those measures' whieh the Pel4ic,interest requires, I shall not fail to" avail myself of the refuge of private life; I. shall not be skoz, by triyietirement, to make the. Noble Duke at - the head of the Government,: place the seals of tiny Department in - abler aid more efficient hands.—(Cheers.) . At the conclusion of the Right Hon.' Secreta ry 's speech 1 there were loud calls for Mr. Herries. I I Mr. • HERRIES then rose—[Thu Right Honourable Gentleman's opening sentences we regret to say were parti ally inmedible, in consequence of the low tone of.yoice•in which. they were delivered, and the noise occasirOuni by strangers leaving the gallery.].--The "Right. Ilanouralate Gentleman was understood 'to say :—I rise," Sir, in obedi tnce to the call of the House, in order to"eXplain some part of my public conduct connected with the dissolution of the late Zabinet, which may appear to require explanation. I should be reluctant under any' circumstances, other than those created by 'a call' o imperative, to trouble the House on the presetst subject. 'Rut as it has been thought that some circumstances connected with the matter to which I have alluded, affect nay character as a public man, an ex planation beconies the more necessary. I repeat, I ShOuld not be easily induced to present Myself to the ITouse 1 , 4. the purpose of offering that explanation, or disclosing trans..' actions that have occurred between me and my Colleagues -1 in . the Cabinet, under different cireianstances, because I hold that, generally speaking, such expiatatiorei and such disclosures constitute a most pernicious practice, that ought not to receive the cduntenance of "public men. j Appeals of this sort are never made to the public usj a body, without ' causing those' who make them ge-1 nerally to Giiffer ,in the-public esteem, and the oliblic wheu they are folloWs 'thrn dis approbation very prope rl y . made lightly, inconsiderately, or on - insufficient grounds, , Such statements, in addition to loieering us in the public: opinion have the strongest t endenc y to aant amo ng those wlio'shCiold act in concert, harmony, and inks; t, in order to carry on the public service--to .sow disunion ouil dim trust among them—to render theni uselesi to the putefaa. service, ind e p en d ent l y o f l ower ing our characters, and ing us in situations , the - most painful. There ere one or awe Pclihtsola which I understand it is indispensaifiy sary for me to offer an explanation. However. before I proceed farther, I must express my surprise at some cir, camstances Which I have learned this night for the first time from the spee.ch of the Right Hon.Gentlentao who ha just sat down. To these I shall come, after -having tou4lie ed npon some previous retails which it is necessary to pre:. rn i se . The accusation Said et 'my door, - Whi c h i t is neces sary to refute, is two-fold-41rSt, tdi:at I have been the prin cipal cause of the dillsoHittilitit of the late Cabinet. Sir, if I were She cause, which I deny , it do e s not f01.k.0.y that the charge would invo lve me in . b lame. In affairs of this .pond are often obliged to take parts utidar pecolin7circtuxll stances, which they wo uld willingly avoid, and become the instruments in producing effects which they ( 1 . , not con template. • The having been the cause of bre a k: ag up t e a C.ohinet . (sUpposing I was the eau of th a toeccurtAce---bitt maintain I was not) does no t necessarily . . me i d, blame. Sir, I know it has been circulated ()or of doorsj l that I hive so conducted myself as for flail Aliest suppoition that if was my deliberateto affinotr:ilitm piodue,". .disunion in the late Cabinet.. I state this in an broadest sense, because in all such came I think ;. the no honourable, the wisest; and'lmity add, the sat: ways deal with - charges made through the medium ol; as if they were plain and direct accusations, : .1 tifaeal,. with them to the utmost extent to which they 5 , be car ried. I say, thereftire, my wish, and my o:.. et, to frapple with them as aeensationsi and, not as me, intlll7lPl., Lions. Such then is the course I mean 65 adopt in the statement lam about to make to the House. Sir, I say then, there is no truth whatever in the allegation, that the difficulties to which I have alluded, and which have been ersoneously laid down as the exclusive cause of the dissolu tion of the late Cabinet, are to be attributed tome. I say that the allegation, however and wherever it may be made, so far as it relates to any unfair intention on my part, to any stratagem that I have devised, and which involves the supposidnn that I have deliberately' sought the dissolution of the late Cabinet---upon the principle I have laid down,. I will in no -way soften my language—l deny_ in. the most urtrptali#ed manner. I say, that the alle gation is altogether false, altogether unfounded, and . altogether incapable of ,proof. ! Sik,.. it has not. even, the shadow of foundation. Now, my situation with respect to this transaction, - relating to the appointment of a Cl)ni mitten of Finance, lam about t o deta il ," as plainly and as distinctly as I am able, and I will then haw. from those ule . tails the inferences which I consid er necessary. ' Sir, haVe 'certainly given mu c h of my tim e - and much' of say attention to this subject . ; I always considered such s mea sure as the aPpeintroent pf such a Committee most import ant and most useful, and es one ;nest certain to produce benefiCial results to the financial affair 3 of the country. •I• may perhaps be permitted to state a fact, of which,. 'although it is known to score who are present, many others ?nay be ignorant of. Sir, it is this- T that the some:Finance Committee, upon the prospect ;of the: utihtiof which all perscms a:ad parties are agreedis 'a measure of which I myself had the honour topropose 'the institution. Sir, proposed the appointment pf such a Committee to the late Right TIOn. George Canning, he then .htutrellor of the Exchequer and head of the Adrninistratiom sa hatiog indeed previously,proposed 'it to the Government .which preceded his. I appeal to my Right Honourable Friend who sits near me, whether this` proposition did not - first originate with me. I mention this feet inertly to „show, that I had, a deep interest in this Committee--that the proposal for its appointment did not come to me as to on e w h o l oo k e d upon it with iodifference but to one who anxiously and earnestly desired that it should produce all thp public be nefit of which I conceive it capable. It is not, therefore, to be Sapp,Oecd, that Iconid be careless with respect to any 'atter having referet\e-e to such a subject. ow,,,Sir, my Right Hon. Friend, some time, *lot tberpiddle of Novem ber last, in conjunction with another Member of, the then Government, considered-, the propriety of suggesting the appointment of a' Noble Lord as the Chairman of that Committee ? haying first consulted ,the Wishes of the Noble Lord then at the l ad pi the Administration, and thole of a. distinguished Member,"Wkithe.i? held the situation Which now hold. As my Right Hon. Friend Ilia stated, in the course of the communications which took Ogee between him and the Noble Lord at' the head of the, Government,- . although sorue time after they Commenced,-the Noble Lord asked, if I, to whose appointment matters of the kind more peculiarly belonged, had been informed of the pending ars mum - tants., . The answer was, that I had not; in conse quence of w h ich the Noble. Lord expressed his regret— stated it to be ruatter.of inapOrtattoe that I should be con sulted, and suggested the prEptiety oi o9uaioting me with the circumstance forthwith. It appears from, what had been stated by the Right Hon. G entleman-.and I am sure he stated the fact, according to his own impression of it— that the oscasiop, two which the first communication re lative to this matter. was rode to pie, was appointed spe cially. Nor, I well remember that, as far 40 I was con cerned, it was a &lanai circumstance that made me an-- quainted with it. I called upon ray Right Hon. Friend upon some other matters, and found that he was not et home. I then left word that I wished to see him, and he subsequently appointed a time to meet me at his house. I called again upon him, but not having an istea that I had any subject to com municate with him upon, 11/".CP.p th4t with reference to which I had directly gone to him in the first instance.. I saw him, W in the course of conversation he informed me it had been Juzgaggfl that Lord ,Althorp should be appointed as Chairman of the Intended Finance Committee. The subject was than mentioned to *re-; previously I had never given the idea of appointing any particular Chair man a single thought.. I had, indeed, received many com municeal,ons upon the subject from various .persons, who considered that / was the proper- individual to whom com munications were to be , roa.4,e; but . to'all such I declined giving any answer, or, at least, i gave Ana answers as al ways avoided giving any pledge whatever on the subject. When the proposition was first made to me, as to the ap pointment of-Lord-Mtherp as.. Chairman of the Commit tee, and:to his. comp.etette and fitness for the discharge of ;the dtities of -such an office, lam sure my Right Honour able Friend will bear me out in the assertion, that any first expresSion was one of perfect respeet towards the charac ter of the Noble Lord, and o£. perfect willingness to act 'with him, either in that capacity or in • any other. -My Right Hon. Friend will do me. the justice to state, that such was the first expression of my feelings, in answer to a communication which I did not then think of so much importance as I subsequently considered -it to be. A Right Hon. Gentleman, the late Master of the Mint, entered soon afterwards, when he adverted -to the same subject as that mentioned by my Right Hon. Friend, are; appeared as if had been prepared with some papers relative to it. Our . _convpation was-not longs, and it turned mote upon the „objects oldie pemmittee than upon the nature of its forma :don,. `''hg intieview-termioated, in consequence of the en trance. o f a t corson-upon other bitsittets. Upon returning horse, ; however; ant: reflecting deliberately open what had ; taken, place, and upon: the various 'branches of • the 4ropertant - cnbject, doubts as to the propriety - of the :ceorse, that.:- had fwn adopted strongly suggested themselves to any mind, and I lost no time in acquainting the head of the AdMinietration with my feelings and. impressions upon it. The next Morning, ,at ten o'clock, I waited upon him, after having reflected .more maturely on the matter,• and to him Ittated my ex .treme.,re.gret that a step had been taken, 'which I consi dered was not likely to promote the success of contem -plated Committee of Finance. Sir, I did-not confine rpy self merely to the principle that the step which had 'been taken yea not the best, but I did also remonstrate- with my Noble tried as to the manner in which I appeared to have. been treated. It was quite impossible entirely to have lost sight of personal feeling:---it was quite impos sible for me, with any regard for ns,y own honour or cha racter, to have passed unnoticed a circumstance in whish I conceived that both were nearly concerned. I did dwell upon this in my interview - with the. Noble. Lord. Sir, having refeserace to the situation which I then held—such was ray-course of argument—it was necessary, indeed it was unavoidable, that I. shoW4 be jealous- s -peettliarly jee r lous—that I should .be . peculiarly bound to watch - with jea:teis care the dignity and the character of tits Office con fided to eac., it could not have escaped my attention, that there were soma individuals who 'had opposed themselves appoinment to Shat office in a way—but I will not allude to It—l will banish the recollection from my mind, except to state that their opposition - cce;trihuted to render me ,pecoliarly jealous of any interference With ale •D• my official datiea,,and I will add, that if I had not been so, should have heva gpfit to hold the high and'responsible l ace, the duties' of which I was called upon to discharge. . Upon snore mature reflection, then, - I was induced to think seriously that my reputation and ant honour' were at stake. I Went to Lord - Goderiou a and , I did- state to him -my objections upon .. personal and ppon -public grounds—public- grounds, to which I mean presently to advert relative to the transaction which haul been, the night before, communi cated to me. lam bound to state, that my Noble Friend expressed his regret at the course that hat!' be' ruined, appeared tp feel that some wrong had been done, which h was anxious to ,Ecpair, and in the reparation of which no time ought to be lost—or in ascertaining what course could he...adopted with reference to the objections which I had so fully stated. Sir, there were then witnessta present, one of whom is now in this House, who will bear testimony to the way in which my abieetioas•were urged and received. I lost no time in endeavouring to see my Right Hon. l:lietid.,.with a view to explain - tny sentireenat fully to him ; but attlaoiagh I sought him early, the meeting ilia net take plain .some time after, in consequence of the absence of nip Right Hon. Friend. I then wrote to him a letter, _explanatory of my feelings, unti• while I was finishing that letter I received from him a corentunination, ILdoming hie ,that he had returned to his office. • In consettuenee of - this information, I bad an interview with him, at which' 'told hips, in general terms, my public and personal objections to the comae he had pursued, and to the choice he had made. On ray return from that interview, feeling it was necessary .for me to do something more to dislodge the bUrden from my mind, I finished my letter, and closed it by stating that I thought.. .t right, notwithstanding our verbal commu4. -to make my protest in every way, and that' he . s hod have my written protest, as the most plaini distinct', and certain, that Right Hop: V r i ep d, a l etter w hi c h I could give. - Sir, l•received satisfactory --it Na iodeed, such w th as e nuaextmd: as day" from ;y eti his:* re g ret th a t e i t h er ' expected him.- He stated . he or Lord Goderich should have done any.thing of which I „might have-had - a right to coroplaim'aud he inclosed me the .copy °fa ktter which he had written to thentster of the Mint, requesting that no further proceedings:roEight be taken with reference to the appointment of a Chairman of the Finance Committee,. and that great caution might be used in all that respected it.. A few days afterwards my Right lion. Friend chewed me a letter which he bad received; in reply, from the Master of the Mint, dieet,Uning his having gone so far as was at first imagined. Now, Sir, say that at this period of the transaction I was perfertl), justified in concluding that nothing further would be done without consulting me. I objected to the steps that hal been taken, upon grounds not of personal dislike to the, nomination of Chairman of the Finance Com mittee, to this person or to that —no, I objected to the appointment of Lord Althorn upon grounds quite different —were they right or wrong, they were such as I had adop ted, and having stated my objections--having lodged my protest—my written protest--and having received an as surance on the part of my Right Hon. Friend—whom I did not expect would interfere in affairs which w er e mine, or that he would interfere unduly with the. duties of my office—having, I say, received an assurance from my Right Hon. Friend that proceedings should be 'stayed, I abstained from entering into further communications o n the subject; but I thought that some communication ought to be made by me. I thought this would be the more becoming course, and I paused to await the re sult. But, within three or four days after I received the last assurance contained in the Right Honourable Gen tleman's letter, there commenced a series of proceedings which eventually led to the abdication of the head of the. Cabinet, And now, I ask, if it would have been thought well in me, when the Government was in a stat e o f agony, or when it was actually after" its dissolution-, whether it-would, indeed, have been any thing but absurd in me to have mooted anew this question yelative to the Finance Committee? and to' have Mooted it to a Govern ment that might, probably, neVer have aught to do with the subject. I was thus, Sir, held in suspense from the 2d to the 21st. of December—ray Right Hon. Friend calls it the 266, beeause he then first saw my letter, and during this great intetval, I ask, was it possible for me, except during the first four or five days, to have proposed any thing? I appeal to the House whether I could have pro posed any thing relative to this Finance Committee. To whom was I to have addressed any such communication? How was Ito have worded it? But as it was drawing near the time when something was to be done, I did write a letter to my Noble Friend Lira Goderich, and I think I must request permission that that letter_ may be read. The House will observe, in order to guard itself against misconception, that . circumstances had occurred which led me to think that a general misunderstanding ex isted, which was not unlikely to lead to a misunderstand ing afterwards. There may be some who are Acquainted with those circumstanese44 Wa4 not confidently intrusted with them--and I merely speak to my personal observa tion. Under these cirqmstances, ; represented to the then head of the Government the situation in which I stood with reference to this Finance Committee, and I wrote to my Lord Goderich the following letter (COPY.) Downing.street, Dec. 21, 1 sr. " 4y dear podoriO, " It is now full time that some further steps should be taken with respect to the Committee of Finance. " It would, I believe, naturally be my duty to bring that subject under the consideration of the Cabinet ; hut after what has passed,(and I advert to it with pain), I feel that it is not at present in my hands. I must, therefore, leafs from you, ai head of the . Government, what is the course to be pursued for the formation of this Committee, and the regulation of its preceedings. " What has hitherto been done in this matter has taken place without consultation or communication with me; although it would seem to belong principally to my depart ment of the public business. A negotiation has been carried on, and completed by Mr. Tierney, with your sanc tion and that of Mr. Huskisson, for the nomination of the Chairman of the Committee. The Government is, I presume, fully committed to the individual cured upon fot• the purpose, and to the Noble Family of which he is a Member; and this proceeding, as I am given to understand, has been adopted. with a view, in a great measure, to a political object, and as being calcu lated to strengthen the hands of the Administration. " I doubt lunch whether that view be correct, and whe ther the calculation be a just one. But I hare an objection to the arrangement upon a much higher ground. I con ceive that, in order to derive, in the utmost possible de gree, from this important measure, all the public benefit which it is capable of affording, and at the same time to avoid the inconveniences to which h is liable, all political views of the narrower kind—all those Oich are connected with particular parties and influences only—should be ut terly discarded in the formation of the Committee. " It appears to me that these objects would I T 'best se cured if the Committee were composed of the most emi nent individuals of the severs] parties in the House of Com mons, and the Chair filled by some person of high charac ter and respectability, either entirely unconnected, or con meted as little as possible, with any of the political parties into which the House is divided. 4 ' , Whether this be a proper view of this subject, and whether, if it be so, you could yet proceed upon such a principTe, you and Huskisson are best able to judge. Ido not feel that I could act in it upon any other. In order, therefore, to relieve you from any ditilculty, as connected with my situation, respecting the course which you may deem it expedient to pursue, I beg to assure you that if by . putting my office into other hands you can more satisfacto rily execute this difficult and delicate measure, you may co►nmapd my' most ready and cheerful resignation of it. I place it (and I beg it to be understood as being done in the moat friendly manner) entirely at your disposal. • (Sinned) " J. C. HERRIES." Now, Sir, I ask the House if there were any manifesta tion of improper designs in this letter. My object was to state the case as I felt it to exist. Sir, it was for-the Noble Lord, whom I thus addreSsed, to deny any part of that which I had assumed as fact. it was for him, if the principle I had laid down did not contain insurmountable objections, to have stated what other principle he would recommend—but, Sir, in answer to this letter I received no denial of the facts I had stated—none of uty objections were attempted to be overruled.—the only answer I re ceived was a declaration on the part of the Noble Lord, that I was mistaken in a great degree as to the part he had taken in the proceedings. My Noble Friend merely stated to me, that the proposition for the appointment of a Chain-, man of the firlause committee arose in the course of con versation, and not out of any deitised plan. I will read the letter I received from the Noble Lord :—. " My dear Herries—l received your letter of the 21st, and I agree with you 'that the time is at hand when it will become necessary to consider the direction of the Finance its bearings, with a view to the public good, and the satiafaeiiiiii of all partiei.,:. When Mr. !Ins kisson returns to town, this matter must be hroUght to a final issue. I owe it, however, to myself to say; that you have greatly misconceived the degree in which I was a party to the nomination of Lord Althoip, to fill the chair of that Committee, " thought I had sufficiently explained to yoy yerhally; that I conceived the communication to be nothing more than cainal,'"aMl I regret that it was made. When Mr- Tierney suggested to tne the 'appointment of Lord Althorn, I said it was . a proposition that ought to be well considered, , but from my regard for the individual, and my old friendahip towards him, I was disppsed towards it, The matter ended here. When Mr. Tierney after wards mentioned the circumstance again, I s a id, th a t if the Members of the House of Commons inclined to his nomination, I should not object, but that it could not be acted on without a consultation with the. Government. When I subsequently understood from Mr. Huskision that a sort ,of communicatipp hall beep made to Lord Althorn' on the. subject, my first, inqpiry was, as to whether you had beep spoken to on the subject, and to my great sur prise, I was given to understand you never had. I then thought it right to state, that you were a party to , whom direct rererence should be made. With respect tothe lat ter part of your letter, iu which you place your office in my "hands, .1 cannot conceive that you have. made out a Case to justify you in w proceeding ; but I hope . that you will take no steps until an opportimity has keen given for bringing the whole matter under full consideration: (Signed) " GODERICH."- . - Sir, I haye i - es.d this letter with ,a view to show..that it Contained no answer to my objections but on those terms I was willing to wait. I desired that• no further steps shOuld then be taken by.me ; indeed none could be taken, for what further could I do, after having thus conditionally tendered my resignation ? tpt I am now come to a cir- Tcunistance of seine importance. Th e next commun i cat i on I had was, personally, with my. Noble Friend at the head of the Administration ; this was on the 29th of December. On 'that day the Noble Lord entered npon the subject with Sitie,"and in the, course of our conversation he requested to know from me distinctly, whether I intended to resign in the event of Lord Althorp being appointed Chairman of the Finance Committee. .111 y answer .was, that I was not g iying in my resignation, but merely stating the grounds Nil which alone.l could continue tp hold office., It was for hiS Lordship to sayi whether he would continue to make use of Me in my capieity of one of his Administration.. But Inni bound to say, that there was never the slightest "'attempt it explanation never the slightest attempt to 'adjust the differences that existed--never the slightest at.. tempt to diwuss the Merits of the matter in dispute— never the slightest attempt to ascertain whether an y means could be taken to satisfy the wishes of both parties in the dispute. I "was merely asked "simply, do Yon or do you n ot resign? and my answer was, look to my letter, and y ou Will there see the grounds I have stated. If, however, I had been told at this time of what I afterwa r d s ascer tained, that my Right Hon. Friend had at that very time,t and on' those' very grounds, tendered his resignation,--it might have Made a most important difference in the way in which . l shoUld have acted. I was then, Sir, in utter, ignorance' of any gook fact. I did not even know that tnyt Right Hon. Friend had made so decided a point of this matter. It was not, indeed, until the sth of January, that I learnt, for the first time, my Right Hon. Friend made his remaining with the then Administration to depend upon this point. I did not understand, from what I was at first told, that the agreement that had been entered into was of such a nature, that it could not have been relinquished. I was told the reverse ; and I said in answer, " if that be so, it is still open to discussion; let us therefore discuss it; if the negotiation be net quite closed, let us consider it." It was then I was told in answer to that, though not quite closed, the understanding was such, that it must be considered as quite closed, and that, there fore, it was not open to discussion.—(Hear, hear.) l.et any Hon. Member of this House put himself in my situa tion—let any man of honour and feeling be placed in it_ and he would have acted as I did.—(Cheers.) If I had been told that the matter was concluded, I should have had nothing to say to the refusal to discuss it with me; but to be told that it was not concluded, and that it should not be discussed with me; that no examination would be en tered into, was a thing it was absolutely impossible I should pass over.—(Hear.) Never would I hold office with any man on such conditions.--(Hear.) In order, Sir, to shbw the feeling under which I acted; that it was not one of hostility, but one of confidence and openness toivards my Right Hon. Friend, I have only to state to the House one ,fact: I had seen the Noble Lord at the head of the Go.. vernment shortly before writing this letter, and had a long conversation with him on this subject, but not one word was ever mentioned to me at that or any other time, of the intention of my Right Hon. Friend to resign. I have learnt it this night for the first time. I had not the slightest suspicion of it.—(Hear, hear.) With respect to myself, in answer to the question put to me, "do you per sist in resigning, if so and so takes place?" I again said, "look to my letters; if you have any thing new to propose to me, I am ready to discuss it; if you have any point you wish to examine with me bring it forward, I am ready to examine it ; but if you merely put the question as to whether I do or do not adhere to what I have already said, my answer is, "I do adhere to it,"—(Hear, hear.) Notwithstanding that reiterated 'verbal declaration of my adherence to what I at first declared, my Noble Friend- requested me to send him a letter expressive of my determination. What I had communicated to him verbally I had no objection to let him have in writing. I *cordingly, within half an hour of the time of his making the request, wrote him thus:— " Dear Goderich-1 have as you"' (Cries of "Date ! ")—lt is dated 7th January. " I have, as you requested in your last letter (and as I promised in my answer. that I would), carefully reconsi dered the subject ofmy letter of the 21st of December. I regret to be compelled to state, that the reconsideration so bestowed upon it has not conduced to any alteration of the judgment which I had previously formed and commu nicated to you. The question at issue, and upon which your judgment, not mine, is to be formed, is obviously not the mere nomination of Lord Althorp. That nomination cannot be treated as an insulated point, disconnected from the circumstances under which it was determined upon, and the mannerin which it was settled ; nor (which is of much more importance) can it be fairly considered without refer ence to the principles by which I have stated that I think every step in the formation of the Committee of Finance ought to be guided. In your last communication to me, you gave me to understand that I had been mistaken in supposing that a conclusive engagement with Lord Als thorp had heels made. It appears from your view of the matter, that little mere had been dove than to ascertain that Lord Althorp wlifild'undertake the office. If such be the case, I cannot but observe that it renders the positive determination to adhere peremptorily to that choice, and even to refuse alfdisenssion of the reasons - upon which I think a different course oughtto be pursued, not only more unintelligible to me, hut more difficult for me to acquiesce in. I should `have thought that it might, upon such grounds, have Still been an open question. Let me take this opportunity of renewing the assurance which I have already given you, that your determination, as the result of your judgment in this matter, to advise the King to con fide to other hands the seals which Inow hold, will not have the slightest tendency to diminish the friendship which I feel both for you and for Huskissoo ; nor to abate the sincere wishes which I entertain for the future success of your administration, I feel that where parties of such un equal weights are placed, by an unfortunate concurrence of circumstances, in two opposite scales, there ought not to he a moment's hesitation (with reference to the interests of the Government) in Po disposing of me as to retain the in valuable services of our common friend."—(Continned and loud cheering.) - Does this, Sir, show a wish unnecessarily to embarrass, much less to overturn, the Government.—(Hear.)--It was and is my tificere conviction, that I could not have aban doned that point without abandoning a great public prin. ciple, and making an unjustifiable sacrifice of personal cha racter.—(Hear, bear.)--In this place 1 feel myself called upon, in the most distinct terms, to disclaim ever having entertained any thing like a personal objection to the Noble Lord in question. In every part - , in revery stage of the diseussion, I disclaimed to the Noble Loni with whom I was officially connected, any opposition to the appoint ment on personal groornh. It is now necessary that I ad vert to the public grounds on "which I Consider myself bound to act—as I did act. I conceived that the person appointed to fill the situation in question, to be of that high degree of utility which the country have a right to ex pect from hitt, ought to be• chosen from among those who are the 'least connected with any distinct or pal.- ticular party in the country. It will happen that the Chairman of that Committee will have to hold the ba.. lance, in which there will be Weighed many points of vast interest to - the country, in which. this House is itself divided in opinion, That a man likely to be placed in such a situation, ought not to be chosen from among the proininent leaders of a party, I think will be conceded to me. And if there is a person, however dis tinguished may be his talents, and excellent his private character, who among those leaders has upon one or two material points, likely to come under the consideration of that Committee, pledged himself by declarations; `repeated declarations, in the strongest manner, to take a particular course on those points, I should say that that individual, above all others, would be the 'most disqualified for the situation. • No matter, I repeat, how estimable he may be in other respects ; nay, no matter how eligible he may be, bid for the circuinstanCe of having given these pledges, I say that' men Without that objection, with muck less shin ing talenta, would be far better qualified to fill the situa tion I have alluded to. There is one point to which the public are looking with anxiety, I may say intense anxiety —I mean What it may be proposed to decide upon in this House with respect to the SiolciogTund. • There are some who attach the greatest importance to its preservation, whilst there were others who looked upon it as a ridiculous farce, without utility or 'object. I will not now stop to state what my opinion Upon the subject is, but thus far I will say, in passing, that no plan in this House can be more hostile to keeping tip . the sinking fund by borrowi ng than am.-4 Hear, heat.)=Bizt; on the other hand, th e principle for maintaining a real surplus revenue, for the purpose of using it 'as a sinking fund, is one ow whose soundness the House is divided, and upon which each party entertains eiceedingly :strong opinions. Now, that was an exceedingly important question, on'which the Committee will have to decide ; and would it be well that its Chair Man should be pledgedas to which wgy his judgment was to incline—should be pledged to decide against the main tenance of that fund. Thii, however, is the case with the Noble Lord in question, for I heard him myself declare, and' he' called upon others to say, whether they had per ceived any leaning in him to a contrary opinion that he was decidedly hostile to the principle of the sinking fund, Now, I conceive,. that that sort of declaration, and I men tion it as frankly hereis I did to my noble colleagne, upon points of such deep importance, render the individtial, who makes it less eligible for the particulai situation of which I have been speaking - , than almost any' other Man. This is one of the public reasons whielil think justified me in Opposing that Noble Lord's nomination to the app o i n t m i t it. There are others of some importance to which I Will not further advvrt on this occasion than to say," that one of them was the prominent situation occupied by the' Noble Lord in what I must call, the present state of the coun try, and of opinions in this 'House, one of the extreme par tiesplai p o ed f th tl e pt s h t e at; cithe l thbaevereanotot ofl itrhnest,eouarasteisofafccutornidlyucezi pursued, et, as to leat - Pe no doubt on the minds. of any of to whom I have the hoittidief addressing myself, of theie being no delay that rests with me, hi my making my etiminunic 4 7 postponen spread tient betweeri the Atilt 11410/ledge Iliad oft he circuthstanc4s merte i t , : notning to relating to the imiiitiifin'ent'Of Chairthan tO the Finance committee, ind the letter of' the - 21st of Dec., w, ..hich n th ri e w l or lo t u b s;. s : nsp l ic t i ls s t te hi ll ch ous h ap e va abroa . d as to the motives by which I was actuated in the line of conduct I adopted. I trust it is evident that there was, I ti a s v t e irv re t ad h6 te se in the interview. I have described to the Honse, nothing that bears the - appearance of design an tOy the renewal of the inbject, in Order to tbwarethe arrange ment of measuresto prevent the dissolution of the Cabinet: I have, I trust, shewn that I have acted fairly, in explain/ ing the grounds upon which my renewed application oti the subject was made. From that explanation, the House must have seen how little encouragement I had to dice the subject With a view to any other conclusion bein come to, and that that most material point, relating t the resignation of my 'Right honourable Friend, wag pOsii tively not made known to me. From these facts, lam obliged, on my part, to draw this conclusion, viz, that owing to certain circumstances which had shaken the Go vernment to its foundations before the 21st, when I wrote the letters I have read to the House, nay, which had led to its dissolution (I think I may use the word), before that time, which, to my extreme surprise, and very deep regret, my Noble Friend in another place, in giving his account of the causes of that dissolution, omitted to make any mention of. I say that circumstances were known before the Slst, to those connected with the Government, which made them foresee the dissolution that was about to take place. I further say that this letter and proceeding of mine was taken advantage of, as a convenient opportunity for doing that which must sooner or later have happened.—(Hear, hear.)—l say that I know it was so taken advantage of.— (Reiterated cheers.)—l say that I know it was discussed whether my letter should not be made use of in the manner it has.—(Cries of hear, and some confusion.),-1 will speak out plainly in my own defence; sink or swim, I will defend myself. With all the respect I entertain for Lord Goderich—with all my friendship for him, I must, when his conduct, by an unfortunate concurrence of circum stances, calls my character and honour in question, defend myself in the best manner my situation will allow me, I say then, that no Minister could take such a trifling fact as this—(Hear, bear)—such a paltry subject of difficulty—. (Great cheering)—as this to the foot of the throne, and leave it there as a difficulty and embarrassment, unaccom panied by any advice as to the removal of it without vir tually giving in his own resignation of office at the same time.—(Loud cheering. )—I hope I have not in the warmth of debate infringed upon the rule I laid down for myielf starting; for I , think that a man connected with Govern ment ought , to be cautious that he does not, in making his defence, declare more than is strictly and absolutely neces sary for that purpose. I hope the House will think that I have not said more than i 9 necessary for that purpose.._. (Hear, hear:)—But I feel that if I were to pursue this subject further "I should transgress the limits I have un posed on myself, and which I hold it a sacred obligation not to pass. My vindication then I will confine to two points: First, that my conduct was not the cause of the dissolution of the Ministry ; and second, that throughout the whole transaction there was not a part of it which: euinced even a design to effect that objeet. It will require very little evidence to rove the impossibility of its having been my design ; indeed, in my opinion, it wants no evidepce that any man's common. sense will not furnish him with. It is from the exercise of that common sense that the whole, country has come to the conclusion of the impossibility of my haying , effected what has been attributed to me. An individual recently introduced into the Government, under circum stances to which I will not advert, further than by saying, that great objections were raised to his introduction, and three months after, on his offering his resignation, that mere circumstance is sufficient to dissolve the Cabinet. Is it possible that any man can believe such a case can occur? If is absurd upon the very face of it--(hear);.-Land yet this the very case that is now imagined. There is one other subject to which I wish to call the attention of the House before I close, what I conceive to be a complete vin dication of my conduct and character on this occasion..--, (Cheers. )—lt has been pretended, in some unworthy in sinuations thrown out against me, not only that I design edly managed my resignation, so as to produce the effect it is asserted to have produced, but likewise that I did it in consequence of some communications between myself and some other parties. It was stated in some public papers, having, unfortunately, too much the reputation of being connected, by their editors, with persons of the highest Consideration on the other side of the House—it was stated by them, in terms sufficiently clear to allow no doubt of their meaning, that I have had communications with parties out of the Cabinet, one of the parties being those friends, with whom I was connected in the former Administration ; an d another, (the insinuation was in words the meaning of which - admit of nn mistake), the highest quarter to which , such communications could be made. (Hear, hear.) I declare, upon my word of honour, 83 a gentleman—l de clare, as I hope to be saved—that I never had any com munication with any individual out of the official circle of which I was a part, to which all communications on official subjects ought to he, and are, confined.—(Cheers.) I received no advice from any person, nor did I, on my word of honour s —(My Right Hon. Friend near use ad vises me not to speak on the subject, but I think it right and fit I should speak)—nor did I, on my word of honour, make the least communication in the,bigh quarter alluded to ; nor do I believe that any of the passing, circumstances were known there till they were made, known by nay Noble Friend. That I believe; but with respect to myself, I can solemnly affirm that there exists pot the ehadow of .a reason for the insinuation that has been thrown out against me on that point. Lheve now nothing., more to trouble the House with—nothing but to thank it fon the patience and kindness with which they have listened to me. (The Right Hon. Gentleman sat down amidst loud cheers from. all sides of the House.) Mr. TIERNEY—The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite is 'very much mistaken if he alluded to me, as having on a former occasion originated a debate of this kind.; and I beg to assure him that such, a thought never entered my mind. Perhaps my having asked on what day the Right Hon. Gentleman would take his seat, might have led him to think it; but all I wanted to know,for was, that I might not be absent from the House, when what I expected. to' be said was said. With respect to the, facts that h ave been stated by the Right . Una. Gentleman in the other House, as far as they relate to myself they are tolerably correct, but not quite so ; therefore, I think myself called upon to supply the deficiencies they have left. Early in November, I suggested to Lord Goderich the propriety of naming my Noble Friend near me (Lord Althorp), to be Chairman of the CoMmittee of Finance. I did it, as has been truly stated, with the avowed object of strengthening the Go vernment; ,an object I thought I could not better attain than by proposing as Chairman of that Committee one pf the most intelligent Members of this House. The Right 'Hon. Gent. opposite says, I ought to have selected some per son unconnected with party; now, it happened that Lord Al thorp had not avowed himself of any party, for he had never given his support to the late Government, as his friends, composing the party to which he is supposed to belong, did.—(Floar, hear.)--Lord Goderich's answer to my sug gestion was such as he has very accurately reported it. He said, that he thought most highly of Lord. Althorp as a man of business and talent, that in the early part of his life he was in the habits of great intimacy with him, and made no doubt that he was well qualified, or the si tuation, and would do the public good service in it; but that as it conerned those in the House of Commons more than it did him, I had better consult the then Government leader in the Lower House (the Right Hon. Secretary for the Colonies), and that to whatever he agreed,' he should give his consent. I accordingly did consult with the Right lion. the Secretary for the Colonies, and understood that my proposal met his conceiving, mo that, tcordial fortified approbation.as wasm might have been the approbation of the First Lord of the Treasory and of the Secretary for the Colonies, I had sufficient warrant in taking something like a step towards the accomplishment of the oh jest I had in view. I may, have been wrong in what I did, but I beg to say, that I had not the slightest idea of giving offence to the Right Hon. Gentleman who spoke last, and if I have unintentionally done so, I most sincerely beg his pardon.—(Hear, hear.) I did not dream that what I was doing was bringing the matter to any conclusion, bu merely thought I was laying the foundation for something which would afterwards turn out of great public service. Having then the two concurrent opinions I have mentioned, I consulted Lord Spencer, conceiving him to be a man not likely to make any improper use of any communications I might make to him, and requested him to ask my Noble Friend, whether, in the event of the situation being offered him, he would accept it. I thought it right to take this previous step, as thinking I should make a very foolish figure, if, after recommending a person to my colleagues, as fit for the situation, they were to offer it to him, and he should decline accepting it. In consequence of, the com munication made by Lord Spencer to my Noble Friend near nie (Lord Althorp), I received, first a message from him, and afterwards a letter. By the letter the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Herries) must s.e, that it was quite impossible that any conclusive stops could have been tak en . Thi s letter was not hid d en f ront the Right Hon. Gent., on t h e contrary, an extract was given to hi m , which ought to have convinced him of the fact, of nothing conclusive having taken place. The letter was written on the 3d or 4th of Dec., and the extract given the Right HO nourable Gentleman was this :—" I write you, in conse luence of your message brought me by Lord Spencer. understand by y our message t o me, that yo u h ave thoughts of proposing to your colleagues that I should be asked to take the office of Chairman of the Finance Committee, hut that you wished to know if I would accept the oifer, if it were made." Surely, Sir, this ought not, as it has, to be considered as direct proof of the situation having been offered. I can assure the House, that nothing was said tif , Lord Althorp o f a more definite nature than may be gathered from his letter, had then been proposed to him, On the 28th of November, I ca ll e d a t the o ffice of thi Right Hon. Secretary for the Colonies, and there I fount', that Right Hon. Gentleman and the then Chancellor of tho Exchequer sitting together in conversation. When I ap; peared, the Right Hon. Secretary for the Colonies said ti me, " I am glad you are come, for the Chancellor of th 4 Exchequer and hale been talkintoie:the . ii o a4ar of the Finance Commitite.w . Ido not preii4d# :. Bl i r hitYe a ~.„ very ga o 4'4 3 emqry As'to parfiCiilltr Words used in comfit!** tion, but I think, if I am not much mistaken, the Righ t Hon. , Secretary added —s? We have been talking of the er pointment of Lord Althorp to be Chairman of it, and be most cordially concurs in it." I believe I can appeal to te e Right Hon. Gentleman for a confirmation of the correctneo of the statement. Mr. Secretary HUSKISSON—I concur with you; I certainly think I said so.--(Loud cheers.). Mr. HERRIES—I concur also, except as to th e word' most cordially." I concurred, but not cordially.-' (Continued cheering.) Mr. TIERNEY—Very well, then ; the Right HO; Gentleman concurr e d w i t h out cordi ality.—(A .laugh.) then produced - a list of 67 or 68 names of Gentlemen , taken from all sides of the House. I told na r tes g h s Hoe. Friend that I thought he , would-find it convenient to make his selection of the committee from that list. I certaiall could not have judged verywrongly as to who were fit and proper persons to be chosen; 'for there.is not one Member of the present Committee that was not on that list. TO conversation lasted but a short time, and I went nest .morning to Brighton; and had I met any person on the road with. whom I might have been at liberty to talk upo° the subject, I should have told him that I had th e appro bation of the Prime Minister, of the Secretary for the Co lollies, and of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, to the ap pointment of Lord Althorp to be Chairman of the 00 10- mittes. Such was my impression of what I thought the sentiments of these Members of the Cabinet.-.4lleart hear.) In consequence of my having left town, and the delay of a letter at my residence here, I heard no further eo the subject till the let of December, when I received the letter that has been alluded to by my Right. Hon. Friend opposite. In that letter the name of the Chancellor of the Exchequer was not once mentioned, nay, not even alluded to by my Right Hon. Friend. This is material, because I now understand that letter was written in consequence of his suggestion. My Right Hon. Friend merely told me that it might be inconvenient for the list I had to be shown about, and that he wished the subject bad not been men tioned to Lord Althorp, and at any rate to take no further steps till the time for the meeting of Parliament drew ne arer. I have not the letter with me, but that, to the best of toY recollection, was the substance of it. Not a word sv" there concerning the Chancellor of the Exchequer. 1 wrote in answer that I had not shown the list to any pet" son whatever, and that no one had made aniapplications to be put upon the Committee (for that was o ne o f the in conveniences my Right Non. Friend expressed n-fear-in hi' letter) and that, as far as Lord Althorp was conce rne d, no thing conclusive had passed between him and me; and that I had not communicated with him since the last conversa tion I had with him (my Right .Hon. Friend, the Secre tary), at his office. ' That letter, which was dated on the 2d or 3d, I showed to the Right Hon. Gentleman on the 4th, from which it was impossible that he could conclude that any further arrangement had been made respecting the affair. That could not, therefore, have furnished fin= with a ground for his resignation. But the Right Hon. Gentleman himself admits that he had acted under a cer tain degree of soreness, and alluded, in some distant terms, to what took place on his admission into the Cabinet. I candidly confess, that I was one of those who objected to his admission into the Cabinet ; but, from the moment that he did become a member of it, I am sure that even the Right Hon. Gentleman himself will say, that he received from me as cordial, as hearty, and as sincere co-operation and consideration, as did any other of our colleagues.-- (Hear.)—lle says also, that he believes that there had been a great deal of underhand dealing between my Right Hon. Friend. and myself. But I assure the Right Hon. Gen tleman; on my word, that the only conversation that passed bet Ween my Right Honourable Friend and mytielf, ort the subject, took 'place en the 19th of November, after the Cabinet dinner—that the meeting of the 28th of No vember; and the letter, were the only three, occasions ma which I ever referred to the subject, exclusive, certainly. of the 'meeting of the 9th of January, which was after the Government had been deatrfour and' twenty - hours.—(A laugh.) I can very readily believe that the Right lion. Gentleman felt sorpriie at bearing that we had never hear& of the dissolution of the Government previously; for be certainly had no reason to know, or even to suspect, that we had any dispo s iti on to ret i re or to resign.—(Laughter.) There was no suspicion, no intention, that the Cabinet was not to go on, so far as I had reason to believe ; and what ever degree of surprise the Right-Hon. Gentleman may have felt—and' it was very natural that he should have felt cur - .prised at the fact—l can assure him that . I bai never heard a single word on the subject until the 9th of January.— (Hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman may ask, with great reason, how it had inlayed coming to our knowledge—and a very reasonable qu e s ti on th a t wou ld be, for certainly it was a most extraordinary circumstance—that the Govern ment shOuld have been for some hours defunct before the me lancholy truth had come to our knowledge.--.-(A Now, with respect to that fact, as regards ray Noble Triend, it is hardly necessary to say that it was not - to him a matter of regret,' for there was much more difficulty is persuading him to accept office than in inducing him to . give it up. Ile undertook it against his grain, and re signed it, I am quite sure,' with perfect willingness.— But how it happened that nobody ever 'Mentioned to us what was likely to' occur, er what had actually occurred, cannot tell, Although' I aux quite satisfied in my conscience' that the Right Hon. Gentleman -never said to me, " How do you go on'about.the coinnzit 4ee of Finance?" yet I do not deny that the subject was ' referred to by us. The last Cabinet that was held was on - the 29th of Lreeember—l mean the last before 'the death of the Government—(A laugh)—when I asked him, " Pray,. 'Mr. Iterries, what are we to do about the Committee oE `Finance?" " Oh," said he, " we will talk about that." I said, " In Mr. Abbott's . time the ebairman cf it he Cinnmittee was-chosen by ballot."—(Hear, hear, fro= "Mr. Herries.)--If there is any doubt about it I can prove it. --(Hear, hear.) Mr. NERRlES—Unquestionably, on the' first occasion, that was not the course pursued —on the last the thing was done by ballot. Mr. TIERNEY--So far from having any, :idea that deed on any 'other ground, it was t h e i ntention of the Right things were come to that pass, that eith er on t h at , or i n- Hon. Gent. to resign, I asked him that question solely is cause I thought it full time that the matter should be ad- . justed. I said, " the Chairman of the Committee in Mr. AbbOtt's time was' chosep by ballot." " Yes," said the Right - Hon. 'Gentleman m reply, " after a discussion." The Right Hon. Gentleman says, laii whole object was, by his retrenient,ttO reconcile all differences, and the Right Hoe. Gentleman `refers to his letter of the 21st in proof of that intention, but of that letter I had no knowledge ; and if hisobjectliad been what he represents it, why did_ he not apply to me, I b e in g the only man i n the world law,- ble of reconcilin g th e di fference ? But no — he did 40 such thing; and from' that 'day, the §id, until the restgnstiots itself, I had no notion of such an intention On his part. In an interview On the 3d or 4th of January, I admit it vies hinted' that there had been such a thing—that an earthquake, or some such thing, had occurred, that would render it impossible for him to interfere. I believe the Right Hon. Gentleman was not quite as c au ti ous on the point as he would have been, if the Government had been in full v i gour . It is by no means my intention to charge the Right Hem 4entleman with wishing to place min a situation where a dissolution of the Government must, of necessity, follow. I merely wish to justify myself. He wrote that letter, however, and then, when my Noble Friend (Lord Goderich)' came to town (orf - Dec. 29), for the first tine I learnt its if.iport. 1 expressed my surprise at the com munication; and then Lord Goderich said, " I was lot ' en ed to the r" ores- . at liberty to mentio n thi s to you ." H e re al so I was i n t h e dark. A corresp on d ence h a d b een going o n , i n which two turning fil ym e m b trhee s e i r gcn s o o av f tei the orn a m had any for that arose out o f a preme di -s tated sch ema plot settled previously, , and t hi s was only Governmentany thing and yet the Ri g h t Hon. G ent l eman s ays, " d o not imagine-, that tothrdeoat withan excuse for upsetting the Ministry." If that i s t rue , it furnish if ever any o ccurrence did furnish—ground of impeach m ent against zn somebody—(cheers) —and if such a measure be not resorted to—if such a p l ot has come tsa his knowledge—it is his duty to denounce the (Cheers.)—ThOfel". be no safety for any public man -- no man can serv e hi s Xing, if such a pl o t b e not fellows, Continuing cheerio )-1 • g. t is true that by im P eachtneu.. G e ritlem (11 - 1 an r. Huskisson), in a speaels the Right Deep de liver ed by him at Li said to MOT yerpooli .repro _ aerated to lave paid to my se lf and my:Noble Friends the highest compliments for our conduct i witile the Right Hon. • Gentleman (Mr. Ilerries) says 14 4- Vilows our retire ment was the result of a plan laid to blow- , op the Goyern 7l . men ,. U the Right H - on. 'Gent/eniati can substantiatak t h a t, I will admit that it is a triumphant statement-41w; proves that charge, he will come off with flying cologte.--ossi. (Hear, hear.)—A plain man in the, country asks, whylord,-,. roderich's Government had bOn overturned, " for," taps .. he, " although I hear it was in consequence of the *elec. tion of Lord Althorp to be Chairman of the Finance Cow , mittee, I wish to know was that all ?" I. do .not iceuse, the Right H on . Gentleman of Wi s hi ng to overturn •thea j .., : j Government, but I know that there were other messureia”,.; in preparation which I knew were gall and wormwood to the Right Hon. -Gentleman, and which put him out or humour with that'Government. He says, it was not easy' in good Govern ment . to be hand, I cannot think, without incurring the charge of af fectation, that be is exactly the man to complain on that , score, After my admission to the Ministry (as we und • stow held riato Lug] • Very HOW We offer CO q, I aril ITIS7r ►ettlf out tl tb or] c4dit 21st I OW illy I `mess sign Hon COMI it dig ' and only that that ; On t{on No.. his i b im Jan. State sent whe aunt althl vern the hear to di ---(1 lair on t tion Win go ( Matt 4. - hitt 1 1' 1061 -Rot of ; affaii int!! into ewer; they • nob sea r as T iv _ -Foot thou) nient in the lige a %ion• meat tliat cret -Port vat the avov resp, theii (Re; read to us cent g u id, .Ivregy way recoz Prim P. 61 silt 141 i 9 1 utt . g 111111 804