The Sun. — London, England, 1828-07-17 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. ROUSE OF LORDS, SVEDNEDA.v, Stmt. 16. The Militia Bill and the Insolvent Debtors' (India) Bill, were read t 1 ;third time and passed. • The Cinque Poits' fill was read a second time and ordered to be committed to-morrow. The Pilotage Bill was read a ;;;;Itime, Lint tto day was used for the Committee. The Bombay the Beer till, and the Watching and Lighting of Towns (Ireland) Bill, event; through a Committee. The Earl of DARNLEY, in allusion to the pre ,,etit dilapidated state of Eltham Palace, said, if the repairs would not carat mere than 6,0001. he would gladly vote for the application of that sum for the purpose. In order that he might be able to form an opinion of the probable expense of the repairs, he begged to ask the Noble Duke opposite what was the expense of erecting, and next of pulling down, those two flying tea-chests at e ac h en d o f Bucking. - ham Palace. The Noble Lord did not meen to cast any kind of imputation on the eminent architect by whom that building was designed, but being himself engaged in building all his life, he had learned thus much from experience, that any individual who fol lowed the exuberance of his own fancy was likely to excite the ridicule of his neighbours, the Noble Lord, therefore, suggested the absolute necessity of Placing the fancy of Mr. Nash under some controul. The Duke of WELLINGTON really could not tell the Noble Lord what the expence was of erecting or pulling down the wings of Buckingham-palace.— The accounts would be made up in the course of a month, when he would feel pleasure in giving the required information. The Noble Duke was however prepared to say, that this pulling down of part of the Palace was necessary, in order that it might be made a fit residence for his Majesty, and notwith standing the expence thus necessarily incurred, he would maintain, that there was no Sovereign in Ett rippe, he might almost say, there was no gentleman in England, so ill-lodged as our Monarch. STATE OF PORTUGAL. Lord HOLLAND said that the information he 'rose to move for related to the most important branches of our foreign affairs; he meant those es e„ netted with the triple alliance, in which the 'situa tion of Greece, Turkey, and Russia, as 'well as that which related to our Ally,-Portugal . , were con cerned. To both these subjects, intssresting and im portant in themselves, the atter:cion of Parliament was directed in the course of tbs e gracious speech from the Throne at the commencement of the present Ses sions. Their Lordshis, s ' expectations were raised as to the; result ssf what was going on in both those, quarters, of the globe, et during the `schole Sessions no further information had been laid before the House, nor any notice taken, directly or indirectly, upon the important events which had since been occurring in both those parts. The chief motive the Noble Lord had in submitting the mo tion, with which he should conclude, to the House, was to correct that appearance of indifference which, if real, was a great calamity to this country, and in his humble opinion, would sltimately lead to the loss of all the character and importance this country bad ever maintained; and which, if not real, but apparent, could not but be attend ed with great inconvenience to his Majesty's Government, and the interests of the country. He (the Noble Lord) could have wished that this motion bad originated franc Government. It Would have been much more welcome than from him ; and more consistent with usage and the character of this coun try—(Hear, hear)—if that Government had granted from themselves spontaneously same information upon subjects upon which the Ministers must know, if Eng lishmen are Englishmen, anxiety must be felt. If his Majesty's advisers thought the proper season of dis closure was not come, they would have done well to have stated their reasons for entertaining that opi nion to the House. Their Lordships would under stand that this motion was made in no hostile spirit to his Majesty's Government : it was simply a motion for information : it was not a motion of censure, - nor of that constitutional jeal ous y an d di s t rus t, upo n which it was the intention of the mover to found hereafter any expressions of disapprobation. At the same time he would not be so disingenuous as not to say, that looking at the importance of the subjects to this_ country, and the late changes, it was not to be considered an exception to the general class of motions of this description. He would attempt throughout, to keep the two points distinct; and to state the condition in which this country stood with regard - to those subjects, and next, the appearance of the changes which had taken place rtr Europe, and the advantages which might be derived by his Ma jesty's Government and the country at large from the adoption of his motion, or rather the disadvan tages that would be avoided clearly_ proving to the country that this silence, so much calculated to create alarm, would not not have the effect it.. might first seem to convey. In a paragraph (the 11th of his Majesty's speech), the House was told that in maintaining the national faith by every tie; in the Treaty of July 6th, his Majesty never would lose sight of those great objects which induced him to concur in the . treaty, namely, the pacification of Greece, and the establishment of peace between both parties, upon the principles and basis upon which' the last treaty of peace was founded. The history then, of this transaction was simply this, and he left it to the independent judgment of their Lordships whether it was not one 'that at least called for explanation to the country. It seemed by papers already communicated to the House, that as early as April, 1826, a Protocol was signed .at St. Petersburgb, by the Noble Duke opposite. On 6th July, 1827, Parliament yet sitting, the treaty in furtherance of the objects of that Protocol was also signed—a treaty which he felt bound to say, was of as much wisdom and justice, and as likely to produce as permanent advantage to this country and Europe at large, as any treaty ever signed, and not the less so because it laid the germ of a long uninterrupted and glorious peace, by connect ing in it objects that must be ever dear to all man kind. This treaty was signed July 6th, 1827, Par liament yet sitting. The Duke of WELLINGTON here corrected the Noble Lord, by stating that Parliament was not then sitting. Lord HOLLAND having resumed, remarked that their Lordships were then told that all the objects of the treaty would be soon attained; that his Majesty had great hopes of attaining all thcise objects with out further hostilities, and that he was acting in per fect concert and co-operation with his Allies for that purpose ; and in order to lead their Lordships to entertain greater hopes of the success of the representa tions made by his Majesty and his Allies, the Power to whom those representations were made, and upo n whom the objects of the treaty were to be pressed, was most ostentatiously termed; ` Our faithful Ally," an expression, which the whole world had since discovered, and which those who had coined had since discovered, to be nothing less than a modern blunder. He had not heard aay proposition proposed; indeed, if such a proposition had been made, it would have been scouted from one, end of England to , the other; he had not heard that any proposition had been made—that any attempt had been made, to defend this " Ancient Ally," when attacked by an . enemy : he had not heard of any treaty Great Britain was bound to maintain the shameful, or, to use the language 'of Mr. Burke " the hateful and dis gusting Empire" of the Turks; such were the ex pectations then held out, but what he would ask had happened since ? In the first place this " faithful and ancient Ally " had not likened to the representations of this country, and he (Lord H.) was much mistaken if this " faithful and ancient Ally," did not imagine—(very unjustly he Lord Holland must admit)—that every operation di rected against her interests had been at first fo mented, and at length directed by this country. Turkey rejected our overtures, and what was the consequence ? The Ambassadors of his Majesty, and of the other Powers forming the Triple Alliance, were recalled from Constantinople.— What followed ? Soon afterwards, the Turkish Government, unlike the British Government in that respect, thought fit to explain to the subjects of the Porte their motives and the state .of their rela lians with Foreign PoWers. Than statement was contained in a proclamation, called a Hatti Scheriff, and was afterwards defended , by the Turkish Government, -upon the ground that it \vas ins tended solely and merely for their own subjects, —as if an avowal to its own sktlijeds , 'Of principles the most base and perfidious Was such as ought not so give offence to those persons whin thin proclamation had intended to deceive; and against whom it expressed the most nriftiunded suspicions. kfter the publication of thi; Haiti Scheriff, Russia, which had for a idit period of time, unparalleled in history, forborne,notwithstanding the feelings and pre suditts of the Russian nation, to pursue the fair objects of her ambition and direr justifiable policy, acted in the most straight-forward and manly manlier towards this country and her Allies ; when she was at last provoked, by a series of unparalleled acts of per fidy and dins-simulation, to engage in a war which had the wishes and feelings of that nation in its support, and which, according to every principle of interna tional law, she had long a right to Wage. Russia explained to her sweets her various motives, and the state of her relations with foreign Powers; France did the same; but the Government of Great Britain stood like the dog in the Two Gen tlemen of Verona, and did net say a word. This he was confident was net t (insistent with the true in terests of the country. Cordial co-operation, a con currence of views, and the pursuit of a common ob ject by the three Great Powers who were parties to the treaty, he had always considered as a primary object and advantage of the alliance. Lukewarm ness, therefore, on the part of this country, he could not but es:Ashler as a departure from the obvious policy of the treaty, and also a disadvantage to the countsy. Parliament and the country had been told at the beginning of the Session by the King's speech, that, notwithstanding what had been termed the untoward" event of Navarin, great hopes were entertained that the objects of the alliance would be attained without hostility. The King of France land the Emperor of Russia it seemed considered the event of Navarin in a totally different light. The Emperor of Russia thought that if the victory had been followed up in a spirit of cordiality and good faith, it would have led to the complete attainment of all the objects of the treats-. lie (Lord Hol land) believed that that would have been the result of that action if it had been followed up. The King of France; in addressing the French Chambers, spoke of that circumstance in becoming language as regarded the effusion of blood; but so far from treating it as an " untoward" event, he characterized it as an • event glorious to the arms of the three Powers engaged in it, and one calculated to promote, not to hinder, the fulfilment of the treaty. Early after the alliance had been formed, France sug gested many things in the spirit of the treaty, which were not acceded to by this country. He • knew not why ; but this amongst other circum stances concurred to establish the notion that there was a difference of views now where coincidence was so desirable, and where a perfect understanding did subsist with the late Government, arid with Mr. Canning's Government. He had been informed that an offer had been made on the part of the other Contracting Powers to convey money to the aid of the Greek Government. France concurred in the proposal, but England refused. He thought England acted properly, but it tended to raise suspicion. He found, however, that half a million of livres had been lately sent to the suffering Greeks by France. One article of.the protocol stipulated that in case Turkey should refuse the mediation of the Powers, Consuls should he sent to Greece._ Turkey had refused the proffered mediation. Russia and France had sent Consuls to Greece, but England had not. Now, the policy of engaging in this treaty might have been a fair question before it was signed, but after it was entered into, its objects ought to have been prose cuted by such means as were in the contemplation of the parties at the time of its execution. (Hear, hear, from the Duke of Wellington.) The Noble Duke, he supposed, meant to intimate by that cheer, that the only means contemplated by the contract ing parties were mediation and negotiation. At a proper time, if the question should ever arise, he would undertake to show that mediatiOn under such circumstances must be followed by coercive mea sure's. The protocol, and lie defied the Noble Duke to contradict him, was a just cause of war on the part of Turkey;' and this country had once, under analogous circumstances, declared war upon such an instrument. How then could the parties to the protocol have signed it without contemplating the possibility of war as the ultimate result ? If it was the intention of the parties to the protocol that there should be no blows, then he would show that they did not even understand the meaning and cha racter of the instrument by which they sought to attain their end. It was an instrument of direct in terference with Turkey. Its object was to separate individual from individual, to wrest the property of that country from the Porte; it was for the purpose of giving the Greeks the complete internal aaminis tration of their own affairs, the choice of their own rulers, freedom of conscience, and freedom of trade. And this we were to say to Turkey we would do, with what she considered to be hey sub- jects, without incurring resistance. Such - a propo sition might perhaps be answered with soft words; but he had not the least doubt that if the Noble Duke would give them the despatches received by the British Government at that time, he should be able to show that Turkey was prepared for coercive measures. If, then, the Government of this country, on entering into the protocol, was not prepared to follow it up by blows, their conduct with regard to it - was most weak as respected this country ; and, as to Russia, most disingenuous, dis honourable, and treacherous; for Russia gave up great advantages for the sake of the co-operation of the contracting Powers. It surely could not be con tended that the only mode of executing the treaty in contemplation by the parties was, that we should send what the Turks would call a Christian dog to pay his respects to the Sublime Slave of the Otto man Porte, request that he would do him the favour to emancipate the rebels of Greece; to force the Turks of that country to sell all their property to the Greeks ; to grant them freedom of trade and of conscience, &c.; anti if these were refused, simply to sneak away. like a dog, with his tail between his . legs. If this were all we meant to do, he repeated, it was unfair towards Russia, foolish as regarded Turkey, and disgraceful to ourselves and Europe at large.. Bat appearances certainly warranted the con elusion that a change of feeling had taken place upon the subject. The unusual' reserve of his Majesty's Government, contrary to the ordinary practice of the Constitution of this country, and the example of all the . best Governments we have had, although it did not prove insincerity, favoured the suspicion. For these reasons he. had framed a string of reso lutions for the purpose of eliciting information. The first was not of much importance, and was solely drawn up with reference to what passed on the first day of the - present Seas*. Since Turkey and Russia were both our Allies, and were now at war, he wished to know how we stood in respect to them; and,- therefore, should move for copies of all treaties With Turkey since 1809. The second was, for copies or extracts of all despatches from our Am bassadors in Turkey relative to engagements for mu tual defence contracted by word of mouth with the Ministers of the Sultan since the same year. He should have been. ashamed to make such a motion, as though suc,h.important engagements could have been contracted by word of mouth, and. dependent on the accuracy of a • man's memory, had they not been informed on the first day of the Session!, by the Noble Viscount (Strangford), that such traditional treaties and agreements did subsist between the countries, and that a Mussulman's mere word might be better trusted to than a Christian's oath. (A laugh.) • He certainly understood that the Noble Viscount had had experience quite the other way he alluded to the case of M. Minziaci s y, the Russian Ambassador, whose return to Constantinople he (Lord Btrangford), bad negotiated with the Reis Effendi, upon the strength of certain expressions of concession and apology on the part of that Mini ster. When, however, the Russian Ambassador, upon seeing the Reis Effendi, began expressing his satis faction at the declaration . he had made; the other, throwing up his hands, regarded him with horror, e.nd tried blit "Allah, ilia allah f I say such things! Why, if I had said one-tenth of what you have re= peatedi my head would have rolled in the gettets of Constantinople long since."--(A laugh.)— Taking this as a specimen of word of mouth treaties, the sooner, he thought, they were put an end to the better; and, therefore, did he wish to see the despatches, in which no doubt they were contained. He also intended to move for copies of all that had passed with the Emperor of Russia, in reference t o his adherence to the stipulations of the protocol, not-' withstanding the war in which he was enraged. He now approached the other part of his subject with unfeigned grief; he alluded to the state of our re lations with Portugal. He always had considered that the existence of a cordial and well-cemented friendship and alliance between this country and the kingdom of Portugal to be most essentially important to our welfare. In the sincerity of his heart he de clared that great had been the services of the Noble Duke opposite in a military sense, and often in dis charging the duties of civil office, no benefit that he had conferred on this country and posterity was greater than that discovery which, by his great mi litary powers, skill, and wisdom, he bad made of the means of defending Lisbon, by the lines of Torres Vedras, against a w or ld i n ar ms.—(Cheers.)—He regarded Lisbon, so long as we persevered in that bad system of Government in Ireland (cheers) as a place of the most essential importance to the inde pendence of this country.—(Hear, hear.)—He was confident he could show that by alliances more ancient than was generally imagined, we were bound to maintain the Government of that country against all foreign enemies and domestic insurgents. He did not always approve of such interference; he now only stated the fact. The Noble Duke might shake his head, but he was satisfied that all our existing obligations depended on the treaty with the House of Braganza, in 1642, which renewed all the ancient treaties as far back as Edward the Third. A strong argument could be raised on two words of that treaty, to the effect he had stated. He, however, preferred putting the question upon the interests of the country, and the affection subsist ing between the two people; and he maintained that, in nothing was this country more interested than in supporting the independence of Portugal. The eleventh paragraph of the King's speech at the open ing of the Session, told them of his Majesty's satis faction at finding the purposes for which a military force was sent to Portugal had been attained, that the safety and independence of that kingdom had been secured, and that consequently the troops had been withdrawn. It might have been so then; but would any man say so now ? Whether Miguel were treated as an usurper, or his conduct defended by a specious argument to which he would not then re fer, was he not necessarily the head of a faction which was affiliated throughout all Europe; enter taining a rooted hatred for the institutions of this country ? He asked this question not from any suspicion of the Noble Lords opposite composing his Majesty's Government, but as his right as a Member of Parliament, of that Parliament which, whether under circumstances of foreign invasion or civil disturbances, had always felt an anxiety in the welfare of the people of Portugal, as' great even as in that of " England herself," according to_ the words of the treaty of Charles 11. He put his case on the high ground of the interests Of the people of England, and upon that ground he felt it his duty now to seek for information. He hoped to God the Noble Duke and his colleagues would disclaim the odious usurpation of Don Miguel. He wished to know whether the late lamentable calamity at Oporto had not occurred in consequence of the Go vernment placing confidence in parties not entitled to it. It was said, he knew, that the course adopted by this country was that of strict neutrality between the contending parties in Portugal. Without ad mitting our right to stand neuter upon such an occa sion, he hoped it would turn out that the neutrality had been strictly observed, and that no one had been found to interfere so as to disturb the arrangements of the British Government. He was the last man that would presume to interfere with the private correspondence of any individual; but it had been stated that the correspondence of a Member of that House had accidentally, • he had no doubt, had the effect of giving the advantage to that party against whose success the Government of this coun try was pledged. He knew not whether the Noble Duke had seen all, or only one side, of that correspondence. If it were pro duced, it would speak for itself, and that, per-, haps, would be the most satisfactory course. — Expressions in that correspondence were certainly banded about in Lisbon, and must have produced the strongest effect upon those who were disposed to act in opposition to the Constitution. He must say, that this was undoubtedly a most untoward cir cumstance. The Noble Viscount might be a Miguelite, and he saw no reason why he should not be a Miguelite.—But he only knew, that if lie filled the situation of the Noble Duke at the head of the Government, he would have felt:himself called upon to prevent the views of the country being frustrated by the peculiar opinions, or dispositions , o r p ublic or private. correspondence, of any individual hold ing office under him. With respect to the block ade of Oporto, he had no hesitation in saying, that setting aside the principle on which it was recog nised, he disapproved altogether of the manner in which it was done. The document was certainly not happily worded, for in it his Majesty's Ministers gave to Don Miguel a title to which be had no right. He was still styled the Regent of Portugal, though he had deceived his brother and betrayed his trust; and this was by no means necessary, for he might have been mentioned as Don Miguel, the se cond son of Don John VI. of Portugal and the Brazils. He did not like a proceeding on our part which should have in the slighteat degree the effect of continuing or illustrating the authority and ty ranny of one who had sinned so grievously against all moral obligation, and the more especially as no positive plea of necessity could be urged. Besides, it was openly stated and bruited abroad that this blockade was searcely amounting to any such thing, and there was strong presumptive evidence to this effect to be found in the circumstance of ships hav ing passed and repassed without having met with any opposition, or without - having been intercepted by the ships of Don Miguel. He knew that a good cleat had been said respecting the cowardice of the leading individuals who advocated the Consti tution in Portugal. He did not for a moment pretend to say that they l% but he begged of Noble Lords,'ere great heroes; before they came to a decision upon the subject, to recollect that they had no clear view of the circumstances under which these persons had been placed. The Consti tution was protected by all the influence of Don Pedro, the Emperor of Brazil, and his daughter, Derma Maria da Gloria, the rightful Sovereign of Portugal ; but the question to the Constitutionalists then was, whether it was or was not supported by Great Britain. And when he looked to the words of that Constitution, he found that a large portion of power was conferred by it upon Don Miguel; s and then, putting himself in the situation of a Constitutiona list, and arguing upon the supposition that the Con stitution was not supported by Great Britain, he should find that lie had only a choice of evils, and must in all events be unfortunately circumstanced, if he did not side with the usurper. For it was evi dent, that should he stir in favour of the Constitu fiSm, he would certainly be hanged, either if Don Miguel became King, or if he were permitted to enjoy those powers to which he was clearly entitled under the Constitution. The natural determination for a man to come to, tinder this supposition and these circumstances, would be, not to take any part in favour of the Constitution; but if be were as sured that it was the child of Great Britain—if he were confident of shelter and protection behind the shield of Ajax--he would step boldly into the field —he would not hesitate to adhere to the Constitu tion. But the fact was, the Constitution came into Portugal, so as to leave it a matter of extreme doubt to the Constitutionalists what were the feel ings and intentions of this country in respect of it, And he was convinced that there were many who sided with it, because they thought it was devised and protected by Great Britain ; and that there were others who pursued a contrary course, because Great Britain had not acted that open, ingenuous, and manly part, which Portugal and all Europe had a right to expect. With respect to our abandonment of Portugal, he did not think there could be a se cond opinion. The French supported a faction and had established an interest in Spain, and how much the more incumbent was it on us to protect Portu gal and maintain our old connection with that coun try. He contended that we had erred in delivering up Portugal to internal dissention or foreign force. He regretted to think that England did not then fill the same situation amongst the nations, which it had done at the period of Mr. Canning's death. He did not profess to explain how or why this had come to pass, but such was the fact. He did not wish to dwell upon an invidious topic, or to cast, even by . impli ca ti on , the slightest re fl ec tion upon any . ' dual; but he felt certain, that matters were much changed since the period to which he had alluded. Mr. Canning—whether it was owing to his splen did talents, and sound, accurate, and comprehen sive views of foreign policy—or whether it was owing to a fortuitous concurrence of happy circum stances—left this country in the highest and most glorious situation in which it possibly could be placed. Great Britain, too, was then connected with the two greatest Powers in Europe in that im portant treaty to accomplish an object, than which none was ever yet more holy, or more universally popular; for there was no moral, no romantic, no honest or honourable feeling, from north to south of Europe, which was not enlisted in its cause. Mr. Canning, too, had promises (not that he meant to place great stress upon these, for he knew they were too often found of but little avail where individuals alone were concerned, and could be of but still less weight in the affairs of Courts)—but Mr. Canning had promises of sincere concurrence and co-operation from the two most powerful countries in Europe, in carrying his object into execution, in addition to the military possession of that point of Europe which would be most useful to England in preserving her self and her allies in safety and security, and maintain ing her honourable situation, in respect of the entire world. Such was the situation in which Mr. Can ning left the country—in the full enjoyment of ho nour, power, and glory--and now, when they looked around and saw that that situation was either not maintained, or was, at least, considerably impaired, he took it that it was not too nnich for Parliament to require, at the hands of his Majesty's Government, some information upon the catastrophe. He should i.e told that in the present state of the country the last measure in which we should engage was, one which had a tendency to create a war—that in the present despairing state of our finances we could not face war. For himself, he believed that a war was, generally speaking, the greatest calamity which could befall a country, and especially Great Britain ; but there was one calamity still worse, and that was a dishonourable peace.--(Great cheering.) He thought that the public creditor ought to be satisfied —he would go as far as any man, in the principle that good faith to the fundholder ought to be maintained ; but when their claims were advanced, in op position to the independence and honour of the country, he was ready to sacrifice both. In his mind, therefore, those arguments which were founded - upon the injury that might be done to them were good for nothing. If we sacrificed that situation by again entering into those vile un- English treaties, blasphemously called Holy Alli ances—if we enter into compacts to support legiti macy and smother the rights of mankind—if we sa crifice that high and glorious situation which we had obtained by throwing off the shackles which those treaties had bound us in, we should inevitably sink into insignificance :, we should sink into circum stances of disgrace and degradation from which there could be no recovery. That such would never be the case while the Noble Duke presided over the af fairs of State he was well convinced. Lie had the highest respect and consideration for that Noble Personage, but there was a duty which he owed his country which was above all personal feelings, and he could not, after what he sa a and heard, and had reason to apprehend, he could not pay the compli meat to any man of trusting blindly, implicitly, and in total silence, to his judgment and his fortune, and not seeking for that information respecting matters so interesting to that House, and to every individual throughout the country. He should therefore think it his duty to move for information respecting the affairs of Portugal. The Noble Lord then moved for a copy of the minutes of a conference held between Prince Metternich, upon the part of the Emperor of Austria ; Sir Henry Wellesley, upon that of his Britannic Majesty; and Count Villa Real, upon that of the Infant Don Miguel, second son of John VI., of Portugal and the Brazils, on the 18th June, 1827, or of such parts of those documents as had been officially communicated. Also, for a copy or extracts of the protestation made by the Emperor of Brazil, on his own behalf 'and that of his daughter Donna Maria da Gloria, against the rights of Don Miguel, or such parts of them as were officially com municated since the 21st of May last. Also, for a copy or extracts of the instructions given to Sir W. A'Court, in reference to the Charter of Don Pedro. He would certainly look to the Noble Secretary for Foreign Affairs for the correspondence on the other side, but he did not wish to ask for any thing except what had been communicated to our own Court, or to other Courts of Foreign Powers. He also moved for copies or extracts of the correspondence of Sir F. Lamb, lately our Ambassador in Portugal, respect ing the usurpation of Don Miguel, and his non-ful filment of the engagements lie had contracted. After the LORD CHANCELLOR had read the mo tion of the Noble Lord from the Woolsack. The Earl of ABERDEEN rose. He proceeded to say that some of the papers moved for by the Noble Lord had no existence, others were published and accessible to all the world—and others could not be produced during transactions now pending, and which the production of them would materially affect. The Noble Lord had directed his observa tions to two great subjects—the affairs of Portugal, and the provisions of the treaty of the 6th of July, ' and the conduct since observed respecting that treaty. And he had been desirous, in attending to the observations of the Noble Lord, to mark the particular points with which he charged his Majesty's Government, either with respect to what they had done, or what they had left undone. In his expres sion of regret for the events of the last three months i n Portugal, the Noble Lord must expect t h e f u ll co ncurrence of his Majesty's Government; but when the Noble Lord complained of the course pursued by this country, he should beg leave to differ with him. The Noble Lord had said, that while we professed to observe a strict neutrality, we were, in fact, op posed to a particular party. The Noble Lord men tioned the blockade of Oporto, and even quarrelled with the particular title gi ven to D on Mi gue l i n t h e notifica tion )1 . it iii this country. Th e f act was , his Ma jesty's Ministers were called on to consider what right Don Miguel had to make that blockade, and if satisfied th at it ought to have been per mitted, they o ug h t a l so to have been satisfied that the earliest possible notice of it should be given in Eng land. might have been inconvenient to have pub lished the circumstance but their duty lay in so doing. The Noble Lord had alluded to our having been left at a particular period in military possession of Portugal, and he had referred to the position li still maintained by other troops abroad ; but the Noble Lord seemed to forget that our troops were not sent to maintain a military possession of Portu gal, but in fulfilment of treaties to which we were bound by the strongest ties. He would ask the Noble Lord, wh a tever might be the feeling attri buted to this Government, if their practice had been . in favour of Don Miguel ? He would just 'ask the Noble Lord, what had been, their conduct in Portu gal ? Dorr.MigtieNVent trona:this country with as surances of ft supply of money through the interven tion of Government, but the. moment he displayed a' disposition towards anise designs which he has since carried into effect, that moment was he deprived of the supply, a sixpence of which he had never receiv ed to that day. Was this then no advantage to those opposed to Don Miguel ? Was this a neu trality expressed in his favour ? Had they not also broken off all connection with the country in conse quence of the conduct of that person ? Was all this, he would ask, reconcileable with a neutrality in his favour ? He thought the feeling of the Noble Lord upon the subject rested altogether upon an erroneous notion of our relation with Portugal, and the obliga tions we had contracted towards that country. These obligations were simply entered into with Portugal and the House of Bragauza to guarantee Portugal against foreign invasion, but the idea that it should be to guarantee that family either against internal disputes with each other, or with their subjects, was absurd in the extreme. There would be no end to the prospect of interference upon our part with the affairs of that kingdom, if our armies were to be called in upon every instance of a family dispute, or of a dis agreement between the King and his subjects. But l i that certainly never was or never could be the case. Our obligations were simply what he had stated, and no other. It was true that our troops did, through a coincidence of circumstances, tend by their presence most materially to the circumstance of the Charter's being received and established in Portu gal ; but that any duty devolved upon us of main taining them there, for the purpose of protecting that Charter, he disclaimed altogether, upon the part of his Majesty's Government. In this respect our obligations were none whatever; and this he thought no man could possibly deny. If the Charter of Don Pedro had found favour in Portugal, it would certainly have been highly satisfactory to his Majesty's Ministers and to the country at large; but since it fared but unfortunately with the nation, we might regret, but we could not interfere. The Noble Lord thought it was not true that a disineli-- nation to that Charter did exist in Portugal. Of this he could be himself no judge, but events certainly did seem to speak rather against the supposition of the Noble Lord; and he believed there was the best reason to conclude that, if it had not been for the purely acci dental presence of our troops at that particular period, the Constitution would not havelasted even solong as it did. He thought that what Mr. Canning had once said of Spain, upon the subject of the Spanish Constitution, might with equal truth be applied to Portugal. The Right Hon. Gentleman said that the great majority of the people of the former coun try were indisposed to a Charter : and he believed firmly that at the present moment this was equally true of the Portuguese. The Noble Lord had ex pressed himself to the effect, that in not maintain ing the Constitution of Don Pedro, we were in effect breaking up the connection between Portugal and this country. Now in this he differed most com pletely with the Noble Lord, 'for he could not ima gine the possibility of any individual's being Sove reign of Portugal, who should not be found•anxious to maintain the ancient national alliance with this country. The strictest amity and closest alliance had always existed between the two States, and it should be recollected that even in time of great in ternal disputes in Portugal, there had been no inter ruption to the friendship between the kingdoms. Nor did he think that the present situation of Portugal would be productive of any such consequence, for it should be considered, that many of the persons most active in assisting Don Miguel, were sincere friends of this country, or rather of its connection with their own. It should be recollected, too, that amongst the friends of her Constitution and liberty, that there were not a few who were not only not friends to the English party, or of England, but of every good Government whatsoever. In short, he was not aware what the Noble Lord would have Government do; for it was a matter of -notoriety, not merely that they were sincere in their neutrality, so far as Don Miguel was concerned, but that if any thing, their leaning was towards the other side. He said he would then come to the other topic dwelt upon by the Noble Lord—the execution of the treaty of July 6, 18 , 27. He should not say one word of that treaty; at least nothing farther than that, having found it in existence when he joined his Majesty's Government, he should feel himself bound to support the execution of it in its greatest extent. It was the intention of our Government to carry into effect the treaty in the same spirit in which it was framed ; but the Noble Lord was tnistaken in the nature of that spirit—it was not a spirit of interference, nor was its object the destruction or dismember ment of the Turkish power in Europe. So far from the downfall of Turkey having been its object, the principle was rather a preservative of it. The Noble Lord seemed to doubt the sincerity of the Govern ment in 'executing that treaty, and to ascribe the delay to Ministers ; but the execution of it did not depend on them. It happened by accident that at a critical moment his Imperial Majesty issued a de claration of war against Turkey. Was not that, then, a natural cause of delay and hesitation? And if the Government wished to evade that 'treatY, as had been asserted, was not that a favourable opportu nity ?. Yet his Imperial Majesty placed himself in a situation which divested him of the character of participating in the coalition, and which yet alloWed the other parties to the treaty to eo-operate with him in seeking a revival of the peace. This was generous in his Imperial Majesty; for otherwise, though they might each pursue the same object, it would be by separate means, and a coalition was impossible. As to the nature of our relations with Turkey, and its apprehended downfall, it was but truth to say, that Turkey had been long an ancient and constant friend, against whom we never had cause to complain, and now, certainly, no cause of war; and when the Noble Lord talked of the ap proaching fall of that empire, he took a most erro neous view of the policy of Great Britain. The existence of Turkey as an independent European Power, was necessary to the balance of power which it was the object and the wish of the great Powers to uphold; and it was impossible that any material di minution of her power should take place, without ex citing the interference of the other Powers. One of the objects of their. common plan of policy was, that that empire should be upheld—and that this object would be effected, he had reason to ex pect, when he remembered the declarations made by his Imperial Majesty of Russia, of the disin terested nature of his motives in waging the war—declarations in which he had every trust, though the Noble Lord placed no confidence in them, but rather considered them precursors to the downfall of Turkey. As to the non-appoint. ment of commercial agents or consuls to Greece, he could assure the Noble Lord, that so far from its arising from lukewarmness on his part, to execute the treaty, he had anxiously sought, though, as yet, • unsuccessfully, for competent persons to whom he should entrust those important offices. On the whole, the British Government fulfilled all its obligations under the treaty with a religious and honest sincerity. The Noble Lord had said that the Government had deviated from their duty, and he had sounded the note of warlike preparation a s a consequence of that alleged deviation. Now, on the contrary, there existed the most earnest desire to preserve the- peace of the world. There was -no change in our relative position, either in Mr. Can ning's time or at present, which rendered war de sirable or probable. As to the Noble Lord's elo quent invectives, he should look on• them as mere figures of speech, things full of sound and fury Signifying nothing. The general object of our policy was a desire to preserve the peace of the world,. and the same was the wish of every Sovereign ir! Europe. Thi s salu tary object would be best gained, not by v ilif y i ng the institutions of oth er countries, though not so liberal as our own , but by cultivati ng t h e goo d will of all; for, a fter all, i t must be o b serve d, that nations may. be happy. without that perfection of, Constitution which we enj o y ; an d i t wou ld b e well to extend to them a little of that toleration which we boast to be a characteristic of our religion and , laws. As to the papers fo r w hi c h t h e N o bl e L o rd had moved, they would, even though produced, giv e but an imperfect and partial view of the transaction s which they were required to explain, and the pub' lication of them might, of course , b e attended svit', injurious effects. At another time opportunitie s would arise for laying the entire series of paper' before the House; but, for the reasons he had stated' he should oppose the present production of them. Lord GODERICH concurred in the objection s made by the Noble Secretary for Foreign Affairs t° the production of the documents in questi on ; yet he was not at all surprised at the view taken by th e Noble Mover of them of the state of our foreign re' lations at this critical moment : and he was sure thot the influence of England would be diminished in al eyes of Foreign Powers if her Parliament appeared indifferent to the passing transactions of the Co''' tinent. But though be concurred with the Nobl e Secretary in objecting to the production o f 0 . 1 1, papers, he must declare that his Noble Friend do not give the House a comprehensive account of the state of t it, howeverlie case z t o i s r fa a e ff t o o r r d y 1 muchm ight p t. e c h i saev have faonrsr7etri een on uj the Noble Mover on some particular points. Havi4 listened with attention to the proposition o f the Noble Baron, it was impossible for him not to fee interested, particularly on two questions alluded to by him : the first, the condition of that unfort'' nate country, unfortunate so long; but henceforevara , he hoped, unfortunate no longer, he meant Greece' The real fact was, that the state of that country I °' years had been such as to excite considerable a larto among the Powers of Europe, and it clearly eqr peered, that if that condition was not put an end t 6 the consequence would be universal confusion. Th e object, then was, not 'to rescue Greece from the thraldom of Turk e y, b u t t o p revent t h e explos i on el , a general war. As to Portugal, no man can look 0 ! the transactions there without emotions which it impossible to express. There is nothing in what 1 0 ' occurred in that country which enables me, or t hose , who acted in the Gove r nm en t w ith m e , t o account for the circumstance of Don Miguel's violating th e promises he made, and the oaths that he swell' There is something in his tergiversation inexplicabl e to me on any ground:—something which I can neither reconcile with the general principles of h°:, nour and good faith, or with his sense of own interest and obligations to his brother a",',l King. But as to the nat ure o f our re l at i ons w it" Portugal, he could not see th at t h ey were oi fected by the character of the internal governme° l ' of that country, nor could he allow that we wer e bound by an ancient treaty to defend its 0' vernment against internal revolutions. Our O cr „ vernment never acted on t h at pr i nc i p l e . I n 18.2'' when the authority of the King was destroyed bY.: rebellion, we did not interfere to restore him to power. He (Lord Goderich) did not love revolt!, tions—that is, speculative revolutions—God for he should not allow the people the ri g ht of s e ekil a remedy for real gri evances --b u t l eas t o f a ll did h , like revolutions eff e ct e d by t h e arm y ; f or it haroPe° ed that the military agents in effecting a revoluti.oo, were the first to help in putting it down. For O l stance, the revolution of N a pl es , w hi c h was ca use d ' by the military, was it not put down by them, eel j tainly aba n d one d b y t h em , f or t h ey ran away 0, refused to fi g h t f or i t . —(A l aug h . )—S o t h e ree ol: f tion attempted against the Constitution, and . the same nat ure , was t h e recent i nsurrect i on ag ain i Don Miguel. But after the. King of Portugal I ' B 4 suppressed th e revo l ut i on o f 1820, f ee li ng uneasy "c his situation, he applied to the British Governme ° l for military assistance, bat th e G overnment refusedl; declaring that though they we re b oun d an d rea dy defend Portugal against external attacks, they W er e , not justified in interfering in internal dissensions be tween the King and the people. Then, to come to V I, Constitution, said to have originated with Englino, when in truth, the English Government had no ine.r; to do with it than th e y h a d t o d o w ith th e C ons titut?, of China. No, it proceeded from Don Pedro 11 ' ° ' ~ self; he acted j u di c i ous l y an d w i se l y i n giving rviii tugal that Constitution. Portugal acted wiselY,,. accepting it, and m os t unw i se l y i n gett i ng r i d o f but when that Constit u ti on arr i ve d i n Portur though it proceeded from the most legitimate s ours —the King, by hi s own grace and favour,—it excitest fears and ala rm , not on l y i n t h e Court of Spain, 1`„ in the whole Spanish people. The consequeo c ; was intrigue and the demonstration of force on O s part of Spai n aga i ns t t h e C ons tit u ti ona l sta te o Portugal. T o p ro t ect P or t uga l aga i ns t thi s men ace, attack we sent troops to Portugal—while there, the); by their presence, certainly tended to uphold tb l Constitution, and if they had remained there 1 , would be in existence still ; but then those troop' being no longer necessary there for the purpose COo i templated by the treaty, could not be left there 10 :;i longer without a breach of the general principles international law ; and, however closely Elie°, was connected with Portugal, the British Govel l ( 1 meat could not i n w i s d om or j ust i ce depart from h e t march of gener a l p r i nc i p l es on account of the i r pr deliction for one particular State or in one particiA . , case. Th ere was not hi ng i n t h e present pos i t i on e; England, embarrassed as she may be by some reee'' ‘ events abroad, t o s t a i n h er h onour , or l ower dignity in the eybs of Europe; nothing to tfili j 1 from that respect which the nations took ge; care to feel and display towards her, because the knew we were holiest and useful friends, such they would be glad to have recourse to in the hour of-reverses, nor is there any thing in our publ e l j measures incow , istent with a more lib era l an d di gn ifi policy. The Duke of WELLINGTON—My LS' though I am quite satisfied with the able and CO .i ' r e vi icing answer g i ven to t h e arguments o f the Node Baron by my N o bl e F r i en d at t h e h ea d of t h e F ore l: 3 , Department, an d t h e N o bl e L or d w h o h as last o at dressed you, I cannot allow the question to be e i to the vote without stating my sentiments on it. Lords, I do not undertake to blame the Noble Leg for exciting this discussion, but at the sa me I must defend his Majesty's Government against 0. 1 imputation of blame for not having originated themselves. The only occasions on which we c oul d promote a discussion of the s u bject would be eithl l on calling on Parliament for a vote of credit, whlc . , we did not want, or in making an exposition of 0 .0 foreign relations, whi c h w e were not M.a situation 1 4 make. My N o bl e F r i en d who has just sat do%!, has said that the Noble Baron has used a wise c ll6 cretion in calling the attention of Parliament to t he subject, but I trust it will be allowed that the 9 °l e vernment toe have under the circumstances, ex ercis . c, a wise discretion iti having abstained from provoki t h ' o , the discussion. We had had no concealment to ov i , serve upon the subject — we made no concealme n t No Noble Lordever expressed a d es i re to k n ow, asked a question in this House, .zio more than st i i Hon. Member of the other House, respecting o 'l matter connected with it, which either I or any m y Noble or Right Hon. Colleagues was and wer e not disposed to answer; and therefore if discussl ° 4 has taken place in your Lordships' House bet e no w upon the su bj ect, i t i s b ecause no Nor li Lord thought proper to press it, and for wh ic , omission 1 for one f ee l extreme ly o bli ge d. It is Pf o t fectly true, as my N o bl e Friend has already stated, negotiations are still going on, and that it would exceedingly inconvenient that such documents P o , those referred to by the Noble Lord should beyl ie duced and published so extensively as the NO on Lord desires. To supply one paper, or a selecti..e of papers, would be doing nothing. What t . P . , Noble Lord desires is, that the whole of the trial, tions shall be disclosed, that your Lordships and . fir , public should be put . in possession of every t. t o_V e bearing upon the subjects referred to in the I"_,. c , Lord's motion. With respect to the first tralt!,l ll firm to which the Noble Lord alluded—that V/p! is now passing in the East of Europe, 1 . mu5t,! . 3 17 ); that in the whole of the time during which I 04 rri , been officially connected with his Majesty's a 9vT ,,,,, ment, (now nearly nine years) I can aver that not utmost anxiety has been felt by this country, and ° c 1 I Ini he en rei th/ GI da; ....., toi tha his subj ship we wha earr: Ins cum tUtiC Send kvhil