The Sun. — London, England, 1841-08-27 00:00:00

ment, or the supposed merits of ti felt bound to role agminst tho amend w V I2;;lSiry", Colonel umuipdlizi ii3THOR L he ift. nt VOL! on and,:the en ty that he on tti, present question. Ile must -cengtatalate and the .country that the time had nearly arrived when -the Right Honourable Baronet, who had sat too long on the Opposition side of the House, would resume his seat on the other side as a Minister of the Crown. He was rejoiced to think that her Majesty's present Minis ters had not resigned .voluntarily, as he should now Katie the pleasure of.i.steingthein drummed out to a tune which the forms of the House would not alloys him to name.— (Laughter.) He rejoiced - that he had lived to see that day, and right glad should he be to see, belbre the Right lion. Baronet took his seat opposite, those benches cleansed from their political filth by having them well, washed with ConservatiVe lime, and regenerated with Conserva tive paint, in order that the glandered body that had hither to sat there, might not infect those who would hereafter possess those benches.—(Laughter.) The Whigs, thank God, after that or to-morrow night, would be no longer Ministers of the Crown. They had not been satisfied with the verdict pronounced by the, last House of Com mons, and they appealed to the people, and the result of that appeal would be the placing of his Right Hon. Friend On the benches on the other side of the House.— (Hear, hear.) If the present Ministers had had the 'political honesty and decency to have resigned, when the last House of Common told them that it had no confidence in them, they would have been saved the verdict that had been pronounced against them by tho country. He was happy to see the great reaction which bad - taken place in Yorkshire and in Westminster. Oh ! had the Ministers been present at a scene which he had the happiness to see a few days ago—had they been to Drury-lane Theatre—(Laughter)—and seen the assemblage, both male and female—(Loud laughter)— bad they seen them enthusiastically pronouncing the deep disgust they felt for them and the hopes which mutilated them, the delight with which they looked for ward to the. sunshine which they expected to burst upon them in a few days—it would have been a strong and impressive lesson for them in all future time. In that most, subtle Speech, which her Majesty's Minis ters had so cunningly put into her Majesty's mouth, they heard much of distress amongst the people, and the dif ficulties- of the country ; but his Right Hon. Friend, the Member for Tamworth, had a mind and a heart which would enable him to surmount all difficulties. Who had brought those difficulties on the country ? Whf. the Government, with their incompetency—their selfishness and greediness of Commissions; and, he might say, omissions ; but the day to talk of them would soon arrive. They had got up the cry of cheap bread, cheap sugar, and cheap timber ; they were brought forward merely for the purpose of humbugging the people ; but he would tell them, though perhaps they were already aware of it, that old birds were not to be caught by the Chancellor of the Exchequer's chaff. —(Laughter.) The proper time had not arrived for the discussion of these important questions ; but, come when it would, he predicted that it - would be found that they would give no relief to the poor. The fact was, the Go vernment were bankrupts ; and when they produced their schedules, where would be the assets to pay their anxious creditor, the country? He could not sit down without adverting to what had taken place since the Conmions of England had given the Government warn ing to quit on the 4th of June last.—(Hear, hear, hear.) How many places had been given away ?- - how many appointments made ? How much money lavished in rigging out and in calling home, and probably a little something to smooth the passage? What was to be said to the appointment of the late Attorney- C eneral?—what about his outfit? Good God, was not the Attorney-General of England properly dressed— (Laughter)—without an outfit ? Had he not a good coat or a clean shirt—(Loud laughter)—without putting his ,hand in the public chest ? At a future day he .would move for some returns which might show more--he would then see how many days, he might say hours, nay minutes, he had performed the duties of his office. Whether he had received any salary or not, he did not know, but they would see by and by. He considered it to be one of the most gross and unpardonable jobs that had ever been perpetrated. There had been two andtes since then that were rather remarkable. The Ministers were certainly rewarding their friends. lie wished to God they were driven out that night, for they kne'w not how soon another Gazette might appear.—(A laugh.)—But enough had been done, and sufficient for the day wis the evil thereof. With those sentiments he would cordially vote for the amendment, and the sooner he gave that vote the better, for the effect of it, he felt certain, would be to give satisfaction to the people at Jorge, security to the country, and prove a blessing and Add to the happiness of the country. Mr. POWELL—The Noble Lord the Member for Li veure-----1 had said that the people of England had given a decided verdict against the Government, but it was to be borne in mind that the appeal had also been made to the people of Ireland, and their verdict had been decidedly in favour of the Ministry. He was an ardent friend of free trade, but as so many interests, and important ones, had grown up under the monopoly and protective system, he wished for only a gradual amelioration of our com mercial code. He thought the policy of the Government founded on justice and wisdom. A fixed low dray on corn would give a sufficient protection, while at the same time it would prove a salutary warning to those whose inte rests would be affected. lie would warmly support the Address, wishing, as he did, to relieve the people from un evarrantable monopolies and unjust taxes. Mr. TURNER—The Right Hon, Baronet the Member for .Tamworth had seid that in Ireland- he would meet w ith his utmost difficulties in governing the country. Now g dinner was given to celebrate the return of the Members for Kent, at which a Noble Earl (Win chilsea) was stated t o have been present, and to have indulged in the use of language that was unbecoming, and if the Report was true, the Right lion. Baronet opposite (Sir E. Knatchbull) who Was present, was answerable fur it. Ile talked of the Roman eCatholic Clergy as 4 ‘ Popish factions demagogues," headed by O'Connell, and b• led on by the most infu riated and bigoted priesthood that had ever cursed country."—(Hear.) Now, he would ask, was this lan guage calculated to make the task of the Right Hon. Baronet more easy? Or. the contrary, would it not add to the difficulty. He would now come to the real ques eion before the House. With regard to the chief topic fillet had been discussed in that House, viz., the lan gaag;e they had put into the Queen's Speech, he thought if they had not clone so, they would have be trayed the country ; and notwithstanding the silence of Hon. Members on the other side of the House, those on his (Mr. Turner's) side, were deterrained that the question should go fairly before the country.—(Hear.) Much had been said upon the question of wages, and he would tell the House what the rate of wages was in that country in 1760. At that period the labourer had ss. a-week, and with that sum he was' able to pur .ehase 9 3 quarterreluaves. In 1792 the average of wages was Os., and with that the labourer was Ale to purchase 15 • Ajuarterns of bread. In 1841 the highest rate. of wages was 10,7. per week, and with it the poor man was, able to purchase only JO quarteru loaves. Talk of money value. Money was only the reprem4;lative of that which kept up their stamina-4A laugh)—anti it was tstear that the labouring man in 1792 was better able, to support his family than at present. The farmers had been considerably alarmed by the outcry raised by the landed proprietors of the injury that would be done to their interest, but he thought that the general good be taken into account, instead of the interest of A uy particular class. The interest of the landed proprie tors-would certainly be affected by the proposed measure to the extent of somewhere about 10 per cent. Under any circumstances, foreign wheat could not be introduced at less than 60s. a quarter. He contended that 565. ought to be the standard price, and the. day was not long ,past since the farmers, until they had been differently redthooled, were in the habit of saying that that would. be o; fair remunerating price. He would aslc the landed l'rtprietors, were t hey prepared, on the score of humanity, and the destitution of the people— to make any sacrifice. He contended that no Go verrunent, however strong.. it might be. could stand, unless it made some sacrifices. It was the duty of that House in time to make concessions to the people ; and in his .vinion they should have brought forward these measures I:two years ago. lie thought, however, theleum: sho u ld 'save begun with a higher duty, and gradual B y ut they & had come am to a low one; he would not say what earn. I lost that golden opportunity, and the p e op,o were in a . state of utter destitution. lie now came to that pa:divoe her Majesty's Speech which called upon them to col the laws which regulated the trade in corn, sO to Pre-vent the fluctuations which had taken place in it s p rice. - These statements could not be controverted —they were damnim facts, and were established by the returns whi ch were lately placed in the hands of lion. Members. It appeared that since the Bill was passed no less than 11,700,000 qrs. of wheat, and 3,700,000 cwt. of flour bad been imported. Out of that 11.000,000 of quarters the House and the country would be astonished to find that 5,900,000 qrs. paid a duty of only is., and 2,800,000 qrs. paid a duty of only 2s. 81, so that 6,700,000 quarters, being considerably more than half of the entire quan tity, paid an average duty of only Is. 10d. What then had the farmers to be alarmed at in the proposition Of an Bs. duty. He did not believe the measure would Owe the country cheap bread.—(Tory cheers.) But ho would tell them what it would give them, it would . i;ive theta a regular supply of - bread when they wanted it.— (Cheers and laughter.) The eleven millions of quarters of wheat imported produced to the Revenue' 190,0001. I; Ott ail Bs. duty would have produced 2,480,0001. to the equer ? Under the one system -the corn would come in' gradually, while, under th e p resen t l avv , it would not be aduaittecl until bread rose to a famine price. His last remark would be as to the derangement of the cur-: rency which was occasioned by the present system. 'He contended that it not only deranged the currency, but that it placed in jeopardy the commercial and landed in terests of the country. He trusted that those whose duty it was likely to be to adinitiister the affairs of that great country, would not shut their eyes to the eras which af fected the interest of the manufacturing and working classes, and he prayed that they would endeavour, having umajority in that House, to relieve the poor of that country from their present sufferings.—(Hear,) Mr. ESCOTT• expressed hie determination to vote in .favour of the amendment. Hon. Members on the other side had, in their addresses, avoided a statement of the real question which that House had to decide, and of course they had avoided all arguments in favour of the amended Address. He thought it very extraordinary that just at the close of the career of a tottering Admi nistration they should bring forward a Budget which, in the opinion of the majority of that House, went to at tack the great vital interests of that country, viz., its ships, its colonies, its commerce, and its landed interest. —(Hear, hea r .) Th e Right len. Gentleman the Presi dent of the Board of Trade had stated some reasons why the Budget had been introduced. He had told them that it was in Consequence of Members coming to the Go -ferzament and saying that something of that sort ought to be done; it was, therefore, the pre ssure f rom within, and not the p ressure 40ta without, The potion however, was not one between cotton and corn ; but he asked, was the Parliament otEngland to deliberate upon such questions at all, while- an Administration was in office in defiance of Parliament, and in defiance of the '4aw and the Constitution.—(Cheers.) He wished to say one word with respeAlp the Hon. and Learned Member for Bath, who stood in a very different position from the Government, and who, he admitted, was a man of great ability, having raised himself, by the ;once of hi's talents, to the representation of a great city. He had shown an admirable example of independence of mind, although in support of principles which, if carried into effect, would' only produce the same consternation, con fusion, and defeat, which must follow the establishment of a Government in their Monarchical Constitution upon democratical and revolutionary principles.—(Cbeers.) He had told them that they were all equally wrong, and that he was right, and not himself alone, but the people of England were with him. What was this but the old and often-repeated and exploded fallacy of what was meant by the people of England. If he admitted that the Whigs and Tories, and a majority of the electors or England were against him, did they not form a to lerably good portion of the people of England.—(Hear, hear.) Some of the Hon. and Learned Member's re marks on the subject of the Poor-laws had given him vain. He stated that addresses were made from the hustings on that subject, in order to influence the votes of electors. If that were so, the epithets of base and sor did men would not bemisplaced in designating the parties who had so used them. But the Hon. and Learned Gentleman should consider that his (Mr. Escott's) side of the House had as much right to speak in favour of the old as other Honourable Members had to speak in favour of the New . Poor-law.—(Hear, hear.) He had listened with attention to the Hon. Member for Stockport (Mr. Cobden), who spoke on the other side, and who seemed actuated by no other feeling than that of implacable dislike to the agricultural interest of the country. He (Mr. Escott) might be mistaken ; but it appeared so to him. That Hon. Member appeared to have some sort of commission from a kind of Conference or Synod which was held at Manchester—a parliamen . turn indoctum he could not call it. but a parliamentum theol*m—whose discussions went to show, on the au thority of Scripture, that the Corn-laws were the means of oppressing and starving the poor. He (Mr. Escott) did not knowavvhy ; but the lion. Member entered, with out any attach having been made on that side of the House, on the defence of those ministers of religion, for meeting to discuss those difficult questions which now engrossed public attention. Why had the Hon. Mem ber defended them ? Nobody had attacked them. He (Mr. Escott) always looked with suspicion on a gra tuitous defence of that kind. It looked as if the cause defended was a bad one. Was there any suspicion of that kind loitering in the Hon. Member's mind ? He (Mr. Escott) did not attack the ministers of religion for meeting as they did. Btit were these ministers the same parties who, for years past, had been denouncing the ministers of the Established Church for meddling in public affairs ? Were those the men who said that it was their duty to confine themselves .to their spiritual avocations, and to mind their flocks ? He knew not ; but he knew that there were excelled and good men amongst the Dissenting clergy, and excellent and good men belonging to the Church of England, who thought it their duty to take part in the discussion of political questions. They might be both right, but that man was not a good man, be he Church man or Dissenter, who thought it his duty to excite ill will among his fellow-men, by throwing on one party the odium and accusation of being starvers of the poor. —(Hear, hear, from the Opposition.) He would next state what was in his mind the real question which was before the House. That question was not, as was stu diously represented, whether or no Hon. Members of the Ministerial side of the House had a right to discuss the subject of the Corn-laws. That was not the ques tion. They had full right to discuss that sub ject • but the question was, whether the Ministers of the Crown had a right to come down to Parliament and put into their Sovereign's mouth a speech recom mending particular measures on which there was the greatest possible difference of opinion in the country, when they themselves had appealed to the country, and bad found its voice against them by a large majority ad verse to them in that House. What, he would ask, was the great doctrine of the responsibility of Ministers? Who were they responsible to but to that House ? What were Ministers now doing ? They were making their Sovereign appear in an adverse position to that House— to the people as represented in Parliament. He did not envy them their position. Ministers were not exactly out of office, but their fate was sealed. It was only a question of a day or two till Honourable Members on his (Mr. Escott's) side of the House took their places on the other side. Why was it then they put their Sove reign in that painful position ? Why was it that they made their Sovereign do that which had not been done in this country for 200 years ? Why was it that they forced the HouSe to come to a vote which was extraor dinary and perhaps unprecedented ? It was because their course was extraordinary and unprecedented. It was because thequestion was, should the House of Com mons give - up the rights of the people and succumb to the Ministers of the Crown. He knew not how it'was that they had been encouraged to act thus. Had he been asked for a reassn for their so acting he should certainly have said it had arisen from the lenity with which they had been treated by both Houses of Parliament during the last two years. The moderation with which they had been treated, was perhaps the best policy, as was proved by the result of the last election. It was that course which placed the Right Honourable Baronet, the Member for Tamworth, in his present high position. Any Honourable Gentlemen, he was certain, who might defend Ministers would only defend them as the Hon. Member for Bath (Mr. Roebuck) had done. That 'Hon. Gentleman said " He disliked Ministers and their measures, but he was obliged to defend them because he disliked those who were opposed to them more." The unconstitutional course taken by the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies surprised him. Nothing in the writings of the Noble Lord, nor in his previous speeches, led him (Mr. E.) to expect such a course from the Noble Lord. With respect to the Right Hon. Baronet, the Member for Tamworth, he believed the ground of his popularity to be that be never made great professions—tnat he never promised the people to do impossibilities. That was a popularity which had the extraordinary advantage that it did not wane from year to year, nor from Parliament to Parliament. He had. endeavoured to state the reasons why he meant to vote : for the amended Address ; but the people had, in fact, decided that question. They indeed cared very little about that question. The one which they really cared for was, the question of cheap bread—the ques tion which was urged on the other side. He 'Could speak on that question from his own experience. He had heard the cry raised, and that in no contracted sphere, and he saw the people disgusted by what they considered to be an attempt to cajole them, and obtain their support. In conclusion, lie would express the hope, that if a discussion on the Corn-laws would arise in that House or elsewhere, it would not be conducted without acrimony or party feeling. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, (who spoke so low as to be frequently inaudible) said he could assure the lion. Member for Winchester (Mr. Es cott) that he should not follow him in his story respect ing the big and the little loaf, nor was lie going to tell the House any story of what might have taken place between himself and the Hon. and Learned Gentleman. But he confessed that he had followed the Hon. and Learned Gentleman with all the attention which his speech deserved, and hewas not a little astonished, not a little surprised, to bear from him that the House had no right, and did not dare, according to the Constitution 40 the law, to discuss the question of the Corn-laws.— (Loud cheers.) Why, "an appeal had been made on that question to the feelings and the senti ments of the country. The country, from one end to the other, had re-rechoed the discussions on that ques tion,—(Opposition cheers.) Hon. Gentlemen opposite told them they came to represent the result of that dis cussion, and yet, on the first debate in that House, when her Majesty, in a Speech, nominally the Speech of her • Majesty, but in the eye of the Constitution the Speech of her Ministers—(Opposition cheers)—placed that question before awn for discussion, he then heard, for the first time as a Parliamentary doctrine, that that Rase had no right to outer into the dismission of the Corn laws.—(Cheers.) He confessed he thought the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had failed in making out his point, awd he seemed to doubt before the end of hiS speech the truth of his own theory ; for, notwith standing h e h a d sa id t h e Tl eatle was incapable, after aiMtS ' , lapwingsien, the H on . an d teamed Gentlemen could 144 avoid rs . theitory of the "'big anc.ll4tle loaf."--- (Chee footing. that even) 116 ing, eon , Noble Friend who opened the debate 0 41 ,ittto4thtielatdiiise llcus,soittoiti not•nnas not put on a f a i r diseusa the question crprotection—that lie would net go into tote eon, and stv, , ar, and timber duties. He said also—at which he (the ' Chancellor of the Exchequer) w as not surprised—that these were not the questions on his neighbours, y et there was the R i g h t H on. B which be bad talked to his constlttleUtli, He alluded also to entertaining the sam e principles as himself, nthemp:sesent who did talk of a fired duty, not ro a permanent arrange. me at, but as one which would lead to a further reduction of proteetiOn. His Noble Friend said these were not whether moment,the Governmentand that the question for d. the con a li questions to di di an s t o is n i ss a i t o then in ,power c. Lune of' the country, — (Cheers,) „ a ( t he Chancellor of the Exchequer) of the course which did not complain opposite had taken. lie thought they had a p er f ect r i ght hod he thought at the earliest opportunity, .it was their opportunity toi 1 duty to afford them that vi 'ether it • •W s tion to 1:4, practical conclusion , was cape lent way which - or not to have done it or not in the ythe Right Hon. Gentleman bad tionc—bother it was advisabl e to --w follow that system of silence with reertl.t 4 ot e hose great questions which, for the first time -ra . rm 11 . t ar y his.y, in the w and import= part ry, were adopted by a large a. h lie certainly enter. tamed another question on which believed the mystery . a very strong opinion. He the 'to had enveloped course in which gentlemen apposite of their future 'Fallicy with regard to these great questions, was neither consistent with real wisdom —(Cheers,) , nor ultimately with good • --(Ch thought that a party who were candidates for power frankly us possible ought to lay before the eoentry as 1 the course they proposed to pursheeses(Cheers, Whether as that were so or not—whether it ivas prispi)sVo, did the Noble Lord who opened the #.lOl4tP , and the Hon. Gentlemen who moved the amendment: to omit all considerations of those great questions—to per form the play, emitting the partof Hamlet—was a subject for the consideration of that House, but it was one at which the country would be much surprized. The Hon. Gentleman who opened the debate stated that a great party, before they acceded to office, might follow a system of silence, even on those questions which they" themselves brought forward, and had chosen as subjects' for discussion. The Hon. Gentleman, when he stated this case,preferred an indictment containing three counts against the Government, charging them as unworthy to govern the cottatry. Lic fairly stated that he was Wand to prove his case, and to bring forward the grounds or which he considered they were not entitled to the . confi. dence of the House. The Hon. 'Gentleman, who spoke with that ability which he always expected from him. was followed by the Noble Lard (Bruce) who gave great _promise in debate of future eminence. —(Hear.) lie (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had ex pected that some great leader of the ptrty—some of those who were accustomed to enter into the discus sions of Parliament—in whom the Conservative. party had great confidence—would have given them an oppor tunity of hearing the grounds on which they were ac cused. He did not wish to underrate the Gentlemen who had addressed that House, but he thought it would have been a more fair and manly course to have given them an opportunity of hearing those who were their chief accusers, before they were called upon to enter on their defence.—(Hear.) He would now address himself to a few of the charges made by the Hon. Gentleman who opened the debate. The Hon. Gentleman stated that the main grounds on which he considered they had for feited the government of the country were first, that they had departed from the professions of Lord- Grey. If that were the case, he begged the House to look a little at some of the accusations which the Hon. Gen tleman made against them, because he certainly saw two of his Right Hon. Friends opposite whom he should take the liberty of placing as criminals at the same bar. The Hon. Gentleman said that the professions of Earl Grey were peace, reform, and economy. He would first deal with the question of peace. He stated that Earl Grey had said that he would always keep the country at peace. But that must be an .error, for it would be ridiculous in any man to state that o -under any circumstances, he would keep the country at .peace. Well, he said, we went to war in Antwerp and Por tugal. He said they were little wars. It might be so, but where, then, were his two Right Ho nourable, Friends ? They had followed as closely as possible in the footsteps of these two great men in their " little wars."—(Cheers.) If they had forfeited the confidence of the country, he begged the Hon. Gen tleman to tell him whether he had transferred his confi dence to his two Right Honourable Friends. If that were not enough, he would proceed to the next count, that of Reform. There the Hon. Gentleman stated they had performed more than their pledges ; for instance, with regard to . Municipal Corporation Reform, not however, he supposed, from a sense of public duty, but because it might tend to their own Parlia mentary interest. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) apprehended, that if any charge was to be made of that sort, he should, at any rate, share it with his two Right Hon. Friends opposite.—(Cheers.) As regarded the Municipal Reform Bill, they were as much parties to . it as any Gentleman on his side of the House. It was quite true they were not in the Government at the time of the formation of the Bill, yet in all its future stages they were as much engaged as any other person. Then, were they to lose the confidence of the country, to be dismissed, to be considered as utterly unworthy, and to have the meanest motives attributed to them ? While the Hon. Gentleman sat quietly, his two Right Hon. Friends were about to transfer the confidence, of which he said the Government was utterly unworthy, to them.—(Cheers.) He then came to the question of eco nomy, and here he hoped to be permitted to state some new facts and new figures which would disprove those vague statements and erroneous financial details which had prevailed in all parts sf the country. The Noble Lord stated that they had been guilty of a " reckless and profligate expenditure." He (the Chancellor of the Exche quer) had had some returns framed bearing on the question before the House, to some of which he would beg leave to call their attention. He begged to state that in those returns he had shown the whole expenditure of the country, whether as charges on the national debt or other branches of the expeniture. That mode of giving the expenditure appeared to him to give the fairest and fullest view of the subject. When they had the whole expenditure of the country fairly before them they ought to compare what this " profli gate expenditure" was compared with that of former years. He thought these figures would be the fairest answer to those vague charges which he had made in the course of the debate. The whole expenditure of the opposite party, . far the fire years ending 1830, averaged 54,599,0001, and a fraction a year. The whole expen diture of her Majesty's Government, since their return to office, for the five years ending in 1840, was 52,148,0001. and a fraction : so that the.average yearly expenditure of the Whig Government, as compared with that of the Right Honourable Gentlemen opposite, was less by the annual sum of 2,450,000/.—(Cheers.) He had not made these comparisons with the view of ac cusing former Governments of spending more than was necessary; he had done so in defence of a Government charged by Hon. Gentlemen opposite with " reckless and profligate expenditure."—(Cheers.) He might be told that the Duke of Wellington's Government was new in office, and that the last three years were the only fair years of which to compare the expenditure. He would admit, what he had frequently admitted, that Ho nourable Gentlemen opposite had exercised the op portunity frequently afforded them of considerably reducing the expenditure of the country. Then let him compare their expenditure with that of the last three years of the Duke of Wellington's Government. The average expenditure of that Gvvernment, for the three years ending in 1830, was 53,462,0001. and a fraction. The average expenditure of her Majesty's Government was, as he had stated, 52,148,0001., so that, even as compared with the three last years of the Duke of Wel lington's Government, the average expenditure of her Majesty's present Governmen had been less by 1,313,0001. He would now compare the last year 1840, with the average expenditure of the three last years of the Duke of Wellington Administration, requesting the Heuse to bear in mind that in that year there was an extraor dinary increase of expenditure on account of the affairs in China, in Syria, and in the East Indies. The expen diture, however, of 1841 was 18,000/. less than the ave rage expenditure of the three last of the Wellington Ad mmistration.(Cheers.) With respect to the compara tive state of the debt under the administration preceding Earl Gtpy, and those which had been in office 'since 1830, he would read a statement which contained data upon which the House might. make a fair comparison. It should be remembered that in the last five years a large amount of debt had been thrown upon the country by the grant of twenty milliOns to the holders of slaves in the West Indies.—(Hear, hear.) He did not regret it, but when they came to compare matters between the two sets of Ministers, they must take that portion of the debt into account, although it was incurred in a great and noble cause.—(Hear, hear.) In 1831 the total amount of the national was 838,549,0001. In 1841, including the West India grant, there was no increase of that debt, but, on the country, a diminution of one million.—(Much cheering.) If they had been left with out that additional burthen the debt would have stood in 1835, at 815,957,0001., and in 1841 a reduction equal to 32,000,000 would have been effected.—(Repeated cheering.) He might here be allowed, as it was a matter of some importance, to observe upon a subject which had been alluded to in a manner calculated to lead the public to suppose that the security of the funds in savings' banks had been endangered—(Hear, hear)—it had come to him through the usual channels of information that a statement to that effect had been matte ; but he hoped that the lan guage actually made use of had been improperly re ported.—(Hear, hear.) He would not now discuss the question, whether the course which lie adopted was con stitutional or not, but he would assert, that in no respect had, the security of those funds been hazarded.—(llear, hear.) And it the Right Ron. Member for Cambridge did him the honour of replying to him, he hoped that he would bear him out in this, that, in whatever he had done, he had left to the depositors and the savings' banks the same security as they ever possessed.—(Hear, hear.) In comparing the conduct of the present Government with that of its predecessors in re spect to the debt, they should look back to the year 1827. In that year a Finance Committee was appointed, who reported that the supposed Sinking Fund of five millions had never boon practically applied. In the years 189.6 and 1827, whilst it was held out to the Government that the whole amount of five millions had been so applied, there was really a defiCiency upon the whole revenue of 645,000( in the for mer year, and of 826,000.. in the latter, That Committee recommended, that instead of looping up the Sinking Fund, any MOW revenue should be applied to redeem the national debt, That recommendation was never car ried into effect, but the surplus was allowed to aecumu late. And, in 1830, it rose to three millions. The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr, Goulburn) had the opportunity of following up the recommendation of the Quijunittee, but he bad not done so. He left a sur plus, which was stated at 390,0004 but it really amounted to 600.000/.—(Hear.) Since that time, the policy of Lord Spencer had been followed, which was, that the formation of a Sinking Fund was not the best means of relieving the people, but the taxation should be reduced as much as passible, and theactual burden of the national debt diminished by best enabling the people to bear it, although its nominal amount would be the same. The natural result of that policy was, that in cases of extra ordinary emergency the Government was, obliged to come to the country for the means of meeting it by an extraordinary support,—(Hear, hear.) If it were sup posed that the financial policy was not wise, lie begge the House to look at the result. In 1831 the revenue was 51,150,0001. ; since that year six millions of taxes were taken off. But in 1839 the revenne had not fallen s off ii, tc 2 ) .l t , h o e oca amount_( h e f r tins but ta it swhich had risen to taken oft' in the meantime was that upon"newspapers, and of taxes when that reduction was proposed, some Gentlemen op, posite suggested that before they took off tilb taXt+A upon knowledge they ought VI take off the tax on soap. But the - result of' that experiment, in which the Noble Lord opposite concurred, was satisfactory.—(Hear, hear.) He now came to the question of the post-office, and he approached it with an idea that the moment it was menttoned, he Quid hear laud cheers and erica of it It had heen an entire ihilure," but that was not the tano which was adopted at the time. The Right Hon. Baronet (Sir Robert Peel) admitted the great benefit which the reduction would confer upon the country, but he required that an equivalent shoold he found in other taxes,—(near, hoar.) is Noble Friend (Lard Monteagle) satisfi e d th a t con diti on , an d found the equivalent i n o th er taxes .—(H ear, h ear. ) H e now came to the finanoial measures which he had the honour to propose in the last session. Re would not go over the ground which h a d b een su ffi c i ent l y traversed by llon. Gentlemen upon that (the Liberal) side of the House, a lc ; o li n wi the be 4 ei t i ll c c a p re s f l i d i l e li_ :_ a ( v c o l te p d rs ( 17 all T h th e os t e im w e ho m i u 'ol; come when those Tien, Gentlemen must lift the veil, and the mountain would give forth its mouse.---(e Oh," and laugh ter,) - rt -.Alt although in that House they were told that they had no right to discuss those questions, and that their only duty was to vote on the question of confidence or no confidence—(Tory cheers) —there were places where that prohibition did not extend.—(Cheers.) lle confessed he felt surprise to find that it had been stated that the reduction of the timber duties 01'110 value to the cons umers , an d th at i t wa s it Siril as reuarcjecl revohtle, The party who made a9iti ++ .., . that observation was himself a Member of the Cabinet which proposed that reduction, and he was the Member who suggested it. If that party brought forward a delusive measure—a measure useless to the consumer, • lestructive to the colonies, bad in itself, and of no profit to the revenue—if that party assented to that measure when it was proposed in the House of Commons by !;,'arl Spencer—he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) could not avoid expressing his surprise that he should denounce it afterwards in the terms attributed to him.—(Cries of " gear, hear.") He was surprised that the same party, had now turned round upon him (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) and said that the same measure was worse than useless, and delusive—that it was mad.—(Hear, hear.) He must say, that the party to which he alluded could only be regarded as one whose character and opinions should not carry that weight which the public were willing to attach to them. He had next a few observations to make upon that great and important subject the Corn-laws. The Ministerial Measure, in relation to those laws, had not been brought forward as a measure of finance, and it had not been framed with ref erence t o th e Budget. There was no doubt, however, that they could not look to the revenue without finding the question of course coming constantly under their consideration. There was no doubt but the first question which the Chancellor of the Exchequer asked, when calculating his reveune, was, whatwas the state of the harvest, as that revenue would d e p e nd entirely upon the consuming power of the people.—(Cheers.) If therefore, it was considered merely in that light, it Avis still a question of the deepest importance. But if they looked upon it in a larger point of view, the revenue sunk into nothing. He would not enter upon the question •of corn at that moment ; he believed they would have other opportunities of discussing it. He had, no doubt, that the present scale of ditty had not been framed with a view of inflicting hardships upon any class of the com munity ; but he Still felt it had been framed with.the mistaken though well-meant intention of producing steadiness of price. He believed that in the result it had greatly failed.—(Hear, hear.) He believed that its failure had been proved by many years of experience ; and they had since learned the very different principle that the less they attempted to interfere with-those mat ters the more likely would they be to succeed. He en treated Hon. Gentlemen opposite to take the question into their immediate consideration with a view to place it if possible upon a satisfactory and lasting foundation. He trusted that as wise men, reading the signs of the times, they would see that whatever resistance they might offer, some revision of the present duty must take place, and they should substitute in its stead aduty which wouldl in name, if not in reality, a fixed one. He earnestly entreated 'the powerful party opposite to be wise in time, and while they had power to exercise that power in a way in which, if they did not exercise it, they would not retain it long ; while they would leave a rankling sore on the vitals of the country, and strike a blow which must ultimately undermine the sources of its prosperity.—(Cheers.) Mr. GOULBURN 'rose and said, that it had not been his intention to have offered any observations to the House upon that occasion ; but he was sure the House would feel that, after the unusual allusions which the Right Hon. Gentleman had made to the financial transactions of the country for the last ten years, and after the part which he had borne in contests upon that subject with the Right Hon. Gentleman, it would not be just to those who had not paid attention to statements of the kind—it would not be just, on his part, to the Right Hon. Gentleman himself—if he (Mr. Goulburn) did not proceed at once to state the reasons why his views upon finance differed entirely from those of the Right Hon. Gentleman. He was sure it would be his fault if he did not satisfy the House in judging between thelwo.opposing statements, that those of the Right Hon. Gentleman could not possibly be justified by facts. —(Hear, hear.) He should first make a few observations upon the subject of that Budget which they were to have disposed of in the last Session of Parliament. The first remark he would make upon the subject was this, that although a prominent feature in the sugar duties was an alteration in those duties—although the party opposite had maintained, upon the debate of last Session, that the supply of sugar which we might i n f u t ure ex p ec t f rom our colonies would be so limited as to render it necessary for us to have recourse to slave-grown sugar—al though that was the argument which had been used by the Right Honourable Gentleman in proposing his measure—and although a .contrary opinion had been expressed by Honourable Members upon his (Mr. Goulburn's) side of the House, the Right Hon.' Gen tleman had avoided saying anything upon that part of his Budget which had been most pressed by him, and which, in point of revenue , was th e source from which he expected the greatest profit.—(Hear, hear.) Why that silence? The fact was simply this, that every pre diction on the subject, which had been made upon that (the Opposition) side of the House, had been amply ve rified by subsequent facts. The Right Hon. Gentleman knew as well as he did that the supply of sugar from the East and West Indies had', during the three months which had elapsed since the period at which the subject had been last under discussion in the House, more than realised the expectations of the majority on the occasion, and had exceeded the import during the cor responding period last year.—(Cheers.) And more than that, the Right Hon. Gentlemen was aware that the consumption of the country during the three months had risen to such a point that, if it did not decrease during the remaining nice months, the consumption of the commodity this year would ex ceed the consumption of any preceding one.— (Hear, hear.) The. Right Hon. Gentleman the President of the Board of Trade had alluded to the consumption of sugar from January to June, and confined himself strictly to those six months, from which he drew an analogy in favour of the argument he had used upon a former occasion. But he (Mr. Goulburn), thinking' there was something rather suspicious in the suppres sion of the returns for the period following, had applied to commercial men, from whom he learned that a great increase in the consumption had taken place during the last three months. .So..xxrch for ahe'emission, upon' the part of the Right Hon. Baronet, of a prominent subject in his Budget. But the Right Hon. Gentleman thought fit to touch upon the subject of timber—a question nob brought forward in that House. The Right Honourable Gentleman had expressed his disap probation of the statements made upon that subject by a Noble Lord elsewhere ; but as no Member of the Government had contradicted these statements, he (Mr. Goulburn) could only conclude that they did not admit of refutation.—(Hear, hear.) But as the Right Hon. Gentleman had broached the subject of the Timber duties, he (Mr. Goulburn) might be permitted to call the attention of the House to a circumstance which would not probably increase their confidence in the financial ability of the members of her Majesty's Go vernment. Those Members of the House who had sat in the last Parliament might, perhaps, remember that the Right Hon.' Gentleman the Chancel:or of the Ex chequer had brought forward the proposed alteration of the timber duties, with a view to obtain a sum of GOO,OOCf. to meet the expenses of the year. It so hap pened that the Governor-General of Canada had thought proper, at the request of the House of Assembly, to lay upon the table of that House the letter which he had addressed to the Noble Lord the Secretary for . the Colonies, stating his views with respect to the timber duties. The Right Hon. Gentleman then proceeded to read an extract from the letter, the sub stance of which was as follows—" Great alarm is neces sarily felt by those engaged in the timber trade in Canada, as the prospect of any alteration in the duty levied upon timber imported into the United Kingdom might affect the protection hitherto afforded to colonial timber; but the question must of course be resolved by the Government, and Parliament, according to the views they might take of the general condition of the empire. I conceive, however, that in any change which may be determined upon, if it were one which would disturb the proportion of duty paid upon colonial and foreign timber under the existing law, care should be taken to diminish as much as possible the loss to individuals, by rendering the change gradual. Such a course was certainly most just as wall as most -politic ; but above all, I must express my hope that, whatever al teration is adopted, the recommendations of the Com mittee of 1835, of which I was the Chairman, will be adhered to—namely. that the change will not effect the importation of the year, which would be an act of ex treme hardship upon the colonial trade, inasmuch as it can only be carried on by engagements entered into many months befhre the time at which the goods can be shipped." All shipments, therefore, which could be made had been entered into upon the faith of a continuance of the , present law—(Hear, hear) — mid those _shipments .eonld not be eouatermanded or stopped,—(Hear, hear.) Was the Government ig norant of that simple fact, that the - timber ordered from Canada was ordered a long time before it arrived in this country? Or, if they were aware of the fact, how could the Chancellor of the Exchequer come down to the House of Commons and propose a reduction of the duty upon timber as a means of meeting the expenses of the year? The Right Hon. Gentleman had complained of misrepresentations made at the recent eleCtion, with re gard to the financial policy of the Government. But whose fault was that ? Not his (Mr. Goulburn's), not that of those with whom he was associated. He had taken the precaution, on the announcement of *a dissolu tion of the late Parliament, to move for papers which would have shown the real state of the finances of the country ; but though those papers had been moved for in time to be printed and presented to the late Parliament, they had not been laid upon the table of the House until the day before yester day,(llear, hear, from the Opposition benches.) So far, then, es the ignorance of the electors was concerned, the fault did not lie with them. Ho would next proceed to certain statements of the Right lion. Gentleman, and although be had not come forward to speak upon the subject, ho trusted lie could show that those statements were in many respects fallacious. The first point to which the Right Honourable Gentleman referred, was the amount of the national expense at cer tain periods, comparing preceding Administrations with his own, The Right Hon. Gentleman had taken the ftverege expenditure of fire years, including three years of the administration of the Duke of Wellington, and he stated that the expenditure exceeded that of the last five years. Now, it had been said, that the taking of average was a fallacious mode of judging the eftects of the Corn-laws ; and the same remark applied to mat ters of finance. The rate of the expenditure during the five years ending with the Duke of Wellingtons adminis tration, was very high during the first of those years, and very low during the last. A decrease, therefore, had been gradually going on during those five years ; while the average had constantly increased during the last five years.—(Opposition cheers.) In his (Mr. Goul burn's) opini on a w i se s y s t em o f fi nanc i a l economy would consi s t i n a gra d ua l re d uct i on o f the pub lic expendiur e , an d h e th oug h t , therefore, that the House would see that the averages in question afforded the Right Honourable Gentleman but little ground for triumph.—(Hear.) But his com plaints against the Government had never been confined to mere questions of expenditure. He admitted that there were citses ji4 which an incrcose of expenditure was inevitable ; but his complaint against the present Ministry was that they had uniformly failed to keep the income of the country on a footing to meet the na tional wants.—(Hear.) If they increased their expendi ture without at the same time increasing their in come, their system was ruinous, and became a subject of great reproach.—(Cries of " Hear.") There never had been a budgetbrought forward in which he had not raised his voice against such a course as ne cessarily leading to difficulty, if not to rui n —in which h e had not protested against the Government for not pro viding for the increase in expenditure by an increase in income. —(Cheers.) Then came the statement of the Right Hon. Gentleman respecting the manner in which he had dealt with the debt, and he thought that that statement must have struck every one who heard it as one of the most wonderful instances of financial power ever exhibited. If the Right Hon. Gentlemen were really able to effect the achievements of which he had boasted, so far from wishing to remove him from his sta tion, the House ought to vote that he should be con . tinned in his office for ever.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) The Right Hon. Gentleman had said that if they took the amount of the debt of the country j.n 1830, and the amount of the debt in 1840, and excluded from the ac count the amount of the West India loan, they would find that during those ten years the amount of the debt was reduced by thirteen millions; and the Right Ho nourable Gentleman went on to say that if the amount of the debt in 1835 were compared with the amount of the debt in 1840, it would be found that of that 13 millions, seven millions had been reduced within the latter period. Now, this certainly exhibited one of the most miraculous efforts of finance on record. The exhibitions of Katterfelto and of the Wizard of the North were nothing equal to it.—(A laugh.) They, indeed, shut up an empty pot, and pulled out a pan cake ; but the Right Hon. Gentlemen shut up an empty chest, and pulled out 13 millions.—(Cheers and laughter.) Now, the oily means of paying off debt must be from the surplus in the revenue ; and during some of those years there was a surplus of 7,400,0001., while during others there was a deficiency of 4,000,0001., leaving a net surplus of 3,400,0001., with which the Chancellor of the Exchequer said that he had paid off 13 millions of debt.—(Cheers and laughter.) Now how did the Right Hon. Gentleman make that out ? When he (Mr. Goulburn) was Chancellor of the Exchequer he had brought into Parliament an Act empowering the Commissioners of the National Debt to cancel a portion of the debt by granting annuities terminable at the end of a term of years. The effect was to create a sinking fund, diminishing the capital while increasing the annual charge. The Hon: Gentleman said he had those an nuities back. Now, suppose those annuities had been granted for 12 years, the Right Hon. Gentleman took the value of the ,annuities at 12 years' purchase, and put them on his (Mr. G ou lb urn ' s ) s id e o f the ac count and thus increased it by that additional change, while he put two years' purchase only on his own, and having done that, the Right Ho nourable Gentleman exclaimed, see to what an amount I have reduced the national debt ; but if that course were adopted whoever might succeed the Right Hon. Gentleman would be able to boast that he had still further reduced the debt ; or if the Right Hon. Gen tleman himself were to continue in office, and sit still, and do nothing, he would still be able to make the same appeal to the House, and refer to the reduction of the debt by such means as a proof of his wonder ful sagacity.—(Cheers and laughter.) The Right Hon. Gentleman next alluded to the savings' banks, and he was glad that had done so, for he (Mr. Goulburn) was as anxious as the Chancellor of the Exchequer could be to disabuse the public mind of any supposition that the operations of the Right Hon. Gentleman were calcu lated to diminish, in the remotest degree, the security of parties depositing money in those banks.—(Hear, hear.) Nothing could be more erroneous than any supposition of that sort, and however much he might have objected to the operittion of the Right Hon. Gentleman, that had never been the ground on which he had objected to them. His objection was to the principle of not keeping the income equal to the expenditure. And the Chancel lor of the Exchequer, having the power by these means of creating permanent debt, without the knowledge or controul of Parliament—(Hear, hear)—he would admit that, as the law stood, the Right Hon. Gentleman had the power of acting as he haddone. But it was never the intention of the law to confer that power. The law empowered the Commissioners of savings' banks to in vest their money in any securities they might deem most eligible. They had the power of selling Exchequer Bills, or of cancelling them, and calling on the Govern ment to give them new stock, and this power had been given them with a view ofmeeting the exigencies of Exche quer Bills falling and being necessary to be funded, but not with a view of enabling the Government arbitrarily to make a loan without the knowledge of Parliament. That was the operation which had taken place, and the saving banks had had new bonded stock in exchange for Exchequer Bills. He objected to that operation as a step taken for obtaining money without the knowledge of Parliament, but was as anxious as the Right Hon. Gentleman to disabuse the public mind as to the possi bility of loss to the depositors. The Financial Com mittee had recommended that Government should al ways endeavour to procure an annual surplus of three millions, and that nothing should be applied towards the redemption of the debt, which was not an actual surplus over expenditure.—(Hear.) The reason of this was, because they felt convinced that if an endeavour was not made to secure a surplus of three millions, no surplus whatever could be realised after the deductions had been made for an unexpected contingency. During the three years of the Duke of Wellington's Administration, he would admit that the surplus was only eight millions, but during the last five years there had been a deficiency of six millions ; thus showing the contrast between the two systems ; the one realizing the perpetually increasing surplus, and the other it perpetually increasing deficiency.—(Hear, hear.) It' was perfectly true the year after they had quitted office, the revenue had not realised what he had anticipated when he made that great reduction of taxation in the precaing year. This was 'partly owing to the Government having been broken up before he had had an opportunity of proposing those taxes, on which he had relied for part of his snpplies. But in the succeeding year there had been a surplus of 700,0001., which would have gone on in creasing had it not been for the reductions in taxation which it had then been thought fit to make. His ob jection to the Ministry was not that they had increased the expenditure, but that they had neglected t o i ncrease the income at the same time—that every time they had increased expenditure they had repeated taxes. lie did not think it necessary to enter further into discus sion. If he had made himself intelligible to the House, he had shown, first, that the system of averages, on which the Right Hon. Gentleman founded his claim to the confidence of that House, was not a just one ; secondly, that the claim of the Right Hon. Gentleman to have reduced thirteen millions of debt, while be had only three millions of surplus to do it with, was one that was utterly inadmissible ; and, further, that, as regarded the reduction of annuities, the Right Hon. Gentleman was entitled to no credit whatever for that course. If this was all the Right Hon. Gentleman could state as a reason why, at the last moment, the House should repose confidence in him--for let it be recollected that Hon. Gentlemen were not now on their trial,—that had taken place in the last Parliament—(Cheers)--and the jury had found thorn guilty.—(Hear, and cheers.) And now they had appealed to the higher Court, the constituency of the country, which had confirmed the verdict. They now: stood there for the judgment which Parliament felt disposed to pass upon thorn. —(Cheers.) If this was the only case on which they could rest their appeal for renewed confidence, he would leave it to the House to determine on which side the question should be decided.—(Cheers.) Mr. WAKLEY said, that after listening to the state ments, the arguments, and the illustrations of the Right Hon. Gentleman who had immediately preceded him, any one would suppose that there was no country so ably governed as England, and that where so much virtue, so much industry, and so much patience was exhibited in the management of public affairs, it was impossible that any new doctor could be required.—(Laughter.) After all, however, it appeared that the public accounts were kept in a very strange state, so confused, so involved, and so unintelligible were they, that while one Right Hon. Gentleman made it appear from them that there had been a saving of four millions, another made it appear that there had been actually no saving at all, but a loss to the country—(Cheers)—and John Bull endured all this with calmness.--(Hear, hear.) The people were in a state of misery, and Hon. Gentlemen cared not for their sufferings.—(Hear, hear.) The people were hungry, and the House cheered. He could not comprehend how the State accounts were kept, and lie trusted that the Right Honourable Baronet, the moment afthirs came into his hands, would turn his intelligent eye to those accounts, and t r y t o reme dy the anomaly. At all events, it appeared from the mariner in which the public accounts were kept, that they were entitled to no confidence. A vast deal had been said as to the want of confidence in Ministers. They had lost none of his con fidence, for a very simple reason, because they had never possessed it. lie had taken them as his Hon. Friend the Member for Bath had done, because he could not get a better. He had supported them because a better could not be found.—(Loud cheers and laughter.) He trusted that the Right Hon. Baronet would show himself entitled to the support of the Radical party, although he doubted it.—(Cheers.) He expected there would be but little difference manifested in the management of public affairs by the two parties contending for power. "Strange such a difference should be 'Twixt tweedle dum and tweedlo dee." He believed that until the House of Commons should be differently organized, the people would not find a doctor to their liking. The House did not represent the people of the country. The millions who were imploring their aid were not represented in that House. Parties in that House represented their own interest, and that they well understood that, no one could deny.— In such a state of things, it was impossible to expect that any proper remedy could be applied. Palliative expedients would he resorted to, and they would loose the opportu nity of performing the only cure—a radical one. The Address, for which he felt compelled to vote, because be liked it better than the amendment, said the revenue ought to be increased. Now his opinion was that the expenditure ought to be diminished; it was extravagant to a degree of folly ; and the extravagance in every public department, while the peopl e were borne i down to the earth by distress, was monstrous, inhuman, and disgusting.—(Cheers.) The Crown itself was costly. Now was the Crown main tained for the benefit of the people or of a party?— (Cheers.) He felt himself compelled to ask that ques tion after the language held by the Hon. Member for Manchester, that the Ministers were acting in opposition to law and the Constitution by remaining in office ; and after the language which they had just heard from the Hon. Member for the University of Cambridge, who had stated that th e Mi n i s t ers h a d b een condemned in the last House of Parliament, and stood there for judgment, se that that House was to condemn without having heard the evidence.—(Cries of " No, no.") Was that denied ? Were they not called on to as judgment— they, a new House of Parliament, having nothing in common with the old one?(Cheers.) For himself, he had always been an advocate for monarchy, but it ap peared to him that the mode of action adopted by Hon. Gentlemen opposite was in defiance of the monarchical principle. Gentlemen opposite had taunted them with being anarchists, republicans, and haters of monarchy. He would tell those.llon. Gentlemen that they were de ceived—that they were entirely mistaken as to the views which were entertained by the _constitutional Radical party in this country.—(Laughter from the Tory benches.) Surely they would give him credit for stating that which he believed to be true. He gave them credit for sincerity, and he claimed the like credit for himself. He could state that the constitutional Radical party in this country was as strenuously and . conscientiously attached to the Monarchy as any Gentleman in that House. It was attached also to the Church of England ; it would sacrifice any institution rather than see the Church sacrificed.—(Hear, hear.) " Our desire," said 'the Hon. Member, " is exactly the same as yours, to maintain our institutions, but we adopt a different mode of maintaining them.—(Laughter.) You attempt to maintain our institutions by the few ruling the many— we attempt to maintain them by the many ruling `the few. Our object is to strengthen these insti tutions by surrounding them with the affection, love, and regard of the people, and we dread your acting in defiance of the people, because it would be fraught with .danger."—(Loud cheers.) Now what had passed on 'that occasion ? The Queen, in the exercise of her un doubted prerogative, had discharged the late Parliainent, and, a new one had been returned. Why were Ciey to assume, without a single vote, that Ministers had lost the confidence of the House ? It was un pl easan t, h e knew, to hear these remarks.—(Hear, hear.) He was desirous only of stating the facts, without giving offence to any party. The Queen had made a speech to the new Parliament. What was the answer returned? That they would not receive the Speech as from the pre sent Ministers. Had a Radical pursued such a course he would have been told that he was treating the Queen with personal disrespect, that he was acting in defiance of the wishes of the Sovereign, and thereby endangering the Monarchy. When the Right Hon. Baronet met the Parliament in 1834 he acknowlede;ed that there was an overwhelming majority against him, and with • that knowledge he met the Parliament. But did the House at once say that they would not give him a trial, or did they send back the insolent answer, " Yo u h ave s e nt a Minister here in whom we have no confidence ; take him back again."—(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet on that occasion said he felt it to be his first and para mount duty to maintain the post which had been con fided to him, which he did not seek, but could not de cline, " and," said the Right Hon. Baronet, " I call upon you not to condemn before you have heard—(Hear,from the Ministerial Benches)—to listen to all the measures I shall propose; to amend them if they shall be defective; to extend them, if they fall short of your expectations, but at least to give me the opportunity of presenting them, that you yourselves may correct and dispose of them."—(Hear, hear.) Now that was the precept, but what was the example ? The Right Hon: Baronet con tinued in office for three months longer, and the cir cumstances which attended his continuance presented a very striking contrast to what was now passing.—(Hear, hear.) Was it meet, was it prudent, 'that an immense body of Members should come into the House pledged to vote against the Ministry, and against the wishes of the Crown? (Ironical cries of "Hear, 'hear" from the Tory benches.) Was this holding out to the country that kind of mo nition which it was desirable to communicate to a large and fickle people like the English ? Was it prudent not to give the Ministry an opportunity of bringing for ward their measures ?—(Hear, hear and laughter.) Hon. Gentlemen seemed very much amused, but he could clearly perceive that the laugh was not an agree ble one. There was a very unpleasant feeling luring beneath the smiling face—(Hear, hear, from the Mi nisterial benches)—and he did not believe that when the Honourable Baronet came to reflect deeply, upon what he had been forced to do by the eager expectants of place and office, his own mind would suggest a complete and ample justification of that course. The difficulties of the present position of affairs were great. The errors which the Ministers had committed were numerous and enormous.—(Laughter from the Opposition benches.) He (Mr:Wakley) had had an opportunity of witnessing their conduct, and knew what a golden opportunity they had lost of serving their coun try. They would not listen to his (Mr.W.'s) advice. He had prescribed without a fee in 1837.—(Great laughter.) He did not wait for a fee, for he considered that he was fairly called in to the consultation when his constituents had sent him to Parliament,—(Hear, hear.) He barely prescribed three small powders. The Right Honourable Baronet had got 326 pills by his side.—(Laughter.) He (Mr. Wakley's) medicine would have rendered the Right Honourable Baronet great service—it was simple and appropriate--(Renewed laughter)—but he feared that the medicine which he had then in his pos session, and which he would be compelled to swallow, would very soon remove him from the seat he occupied. —(Long continued laughter.) He wished the Noble Lord (J. Russell) well out of his difficulties, the more especially as he was now one of the metropolitan dema gogues.—(Laughter from the Opposition.) Well, it seemed that there was to be a change in the Government that they were to have new parties in power. If the Right Hon. Baronet came into power, he should have no factious opposition from him (Mr. Wakley). As an humble individual he would give his best consideration to every measure which he should submit to the House, and if he proposed a good- measure, it should have as cordial, as warm, and as hearty a support from him as though it came from the sincerest Radical Reformer in the kingdom.—(Hear, hear, from the Opposition.) The Right Hon. Baronet had undoubted capacity—was a man of vast ability. He (Mr. W.) knew more of the Right Hon. Baronet's ability than some men in Ihe House, for ho had made a phrenological survey of his head.—(Loud laughter.) The Right Hon. Gentleman possessed the intellectual power which was so essential in the minister of a great country. If he exercised his own judgment without control—(Hear, hear, from the Liberal Benches) —entirely free from the misrepresentations which might be addressed to him,—from the instigations which might be offered to him—he would render enormous benefit to his country. It was in his power, and God grant that it might be exercised ; it was his (Mr. IV's.) most earnest desire. But if the Right Honourable Baronet should yield to mischievous advisers, and should not exercise those abilities with which he was endowed, he (Mr. Wakley) would be ready to form one of a national party whose energies would be exerted for the best interest of the people. The wars in which this country had been engaged I s had entailed upon it an enormous debt. It was not great or magnanimous to hand down such a debt to posterity. The Government of England declared, forty or fifty years since, that, unless we were engaged in continental war, their estates would be sacrificed, that the country would be invaded, and they themselves left desolate. This country had not been invaded, and they still possessed their estates. But a debt cf 500,000,000 had been con tracted, which was to be paid out of the industry of the people. He asked the landed proprietors to do justice to those who were suffering from such a debt.—(Hear.) But supposing the Right Hon. Baronet should come into office, who were to be his colleagues ? Was there an agreement between the Right. Hon.. Gentleman the Member for Dorchester, and the. Right Hon. Baronet on the question of finance, or between the Right Hon. Baronet and the Noble Lord the Member for North Lancashire relative to the government of Ireland? They could not be sensible to what was passing in the Sister Kingdom. There was a demand in that country for a repeal of the Union. He was sorry that such a demand had been made. A more disastrous event could not take place. Still he wished to know what course the Right Hon. Baronet would pursue. What was the language of four distinguished statesmen when the Catholic Relief Bill was before the House? It should be remem bered that to obtain that Bill , 300,000 voters were disfranchised. The four statesmen to whom he referred were the Duke of Wellington, Lord Lyndhurst, the Right Hon. Baronet opposite, and the Noble Lord the Member for North Lancashire. The language of the Duke of Wel lington on the second reading of the Bill was as follows:—" There is no.. doubt that after this mea sure has been adopted the Roman Catholics can have no separate interests as a separate sect, for I am sure neither this House nor the other House of Parliament will be disposed to look either upon Roman Catholics or on anything which concermis Ireland with any other feelings than those with which they regard England and Scotland. The Hon. Member then read the statements of Lord Lyndhurst, Sir R. Peel, and Lord J. Russell, and ob served that he hoped what he had referred to would be useful to the Right. Hon. Baronet in forming his new Ministry.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He would now trouble the House with a. few remarks with reference to what had fallen from the Hon. Member for Bath. That Hon. Member had praised, with more consistency than discre tion, the Poor-l aw A men d men t Act.—(Hear, hear.) Now he (Mr. Wakley) with consistency, and, he hoped, with discretion, designated that measure as most objectionable, and he believed that it was morn obnoxious to the kindly feelings of the people than any law that had been enacted by Parliament. He (Mr. Wakley); therefore, entreated the Right. Hon. Baronet td take that odious law 'into his consideration—and •he was most anxious that he should have time for doing so, His HenOurable Friend, the Member for Bath, was a democrat,and being so, he asked him to point out any words in that law that had a democratic tendency. The fact was, that it was based .on tyranny.—(Hear.) He would without hesitation assert that no Poor-law could be wise that did net give to the parties having the distribution of the funds, the opportunity of distin guishing between virtue and vice. —(Hear.) Th e m ore he thohght of it, the more he was convinced that h im person could retain power who did not do all in hear.) power to alter and amend that law.--(Hear, „ e The gentlemen of England must be aware if they they supported that law.—(Hear, hear.) d or consider knew what the hungry man felt, they before they excited their passions. fore, that the Right Honourable Baronet A o.nd careful Bill was an subject of this law into his deliberate, ne'‘.;° v u o us u il l e- c; i t ' al t c h e e t r l e i; he Right jr consideration.—(Hear, hear.) He did not ask for the repeal of the law, but only that t Baronet would take the state of the pear man into his consideration. The present an odious measure, and the one that proved the Poor-law w ad downfall of th e p re sent Minist r y , 10, he believ e d that had it not been for it, they would have h ad at the present moment a llargenlaPritj,lHEßl ON th e d e b ate 7 ) . —(Hear On the motion oeMr. BR was adjourned till to- morrow, and at T wenty Minutes past Twelve o'Clock the House Adjourned. BRUSSELS, A U G. 23 . — The Belgian schooner Rembrandt, Capt. Gaoling, has sailed for Antwerp, with a full cargo of military stores, bombs, and cannons, for Alexandria ; it is another portion of the articles ordered of the Royal foundry at Liege, for Mehemet All. The department of the interior has just received for the foreign department the new Portu guese tariff of customs, menti one d by a Royal decree of the 14th of Marchlls4ll POLICE INTELLIGENCE. MANSION-HOUSE. BARTHOLOMEW FAIR.—Mr. Hicks, the Chtirman of the Markets' Committee, waited upon the Lord Mayor on the subject of the memorial of the inhabitants of West Smithfield, praying that the approaching Bartholomew F,.;r irt . gla be re gulated according to the arrangements of 1e39, or wholly abolished. The Chairman stated that he had read the statement of what had taken place before Alderman Wilscat on 'Wednesday with peculiar satisfaction ' as it was calc u l a t e d t o show, without any application to th e Committee at all, that the measures adopted upon the excellent advice of the City Solicitor were in vigorous operation. Tha LORD MAvott said that with every disposition to ren der service to the memorialists, he could not think of acting in oppositiom to the legal authority to which reference had been made on this important subject. All he had to do was to proceed in the ordinary course, taking care that there should be no infringement of the Charter. The Chairman informed his Lordship that the Special Cons mittee had met that day for the purpose of making the rem ssry preparations for the fair, with the intention of malice them conformable to the excellent report drawn up by the city Solicitor. The LORD MAYOR supposed from these observation§ that it was the intention of the Committee to exclude what was called "dramatic entertainments " from the fair? The Chairman said that was most decidedly the case. They had adopted the popular alteration proposed by the City Soli" eitor, of " abridging the duration of the fair to two clear days, and by refusing to let standings for show booths, thus pre paring the way for its natural death." The Corporation had abolished " Ladye Fair " in Southwark, and the nuisance of Bartholomew Fair, which infinitely surpassed any other public abomination of the kind, would be every year diminished untiil it should at length become a scarcely legible record. The conversation here dropped, and the odiotis fa'r o f St. Bartholomew will soon sink into nothing. The - police Will receive directions to pay very particular attention to the move ments of the class of persons to whom the deputation of the inhabitants of Smithfield especially referred in their memoriA SHIPPING INTELLIGENCE. (LLOYD'S.) FALMOUTII, Atm. 24.—Wind N.W. to W. S.W.—Arrived the Monkey, Jacmel, for Leghorn ; Mermaid, Dale, Suirn a ',_ Arrived off, the Priscilla, from the Brazils, for Hamburg° ; Cornwall, St. Andrew's. SCILLY, Ana. 20.—Arrived the Downing Marie. from La Guayra, and sailed the 20th for Altona; Flying Fish, London, fo' Newfoundland. Sailed the Elizabeth for 13arcclona. Ar rived off, the Philadelphia, from Philadelphia, for Brem en ; Cowslip, Bell, Havannah. S a il e d th e Echo, Gibraltar. BRISTOL, Atm. 25.—Arrived th e C ongo, Whitty, fro m Africa, and sailed for Bonny 2d J une. MILFORD, AUG. 24.—Arriv e d th e C am ill a, Reed, Quebe,,C:. CARDIFF, AUG. 23.—A rr i ve d th e Pil ot, J ones, f ro m ‘ michi. Sailed the Eli za b e th an d M ary A nn, for Ancons' Talbot, Barcelona. NEWPORT, AUG. 24.—Arrived the Ringdove, from Quebe c '. _ CLYDE, Auc. 24.—Arrived th e S pec k, f rom Alexamill°' Sailed the Tecumseh, for Montreal ; Wave, Bombay. DUBLIN, Auc. 23.—Sailed the Onyn, for Quebec. KiNGsrowN, Aua. 24.—Arrived the Bleeze, from Quebe c ' Coast. Auc. 23.—Arrived the Hampton, Jeweit, from SL John's, New Brunswick; Camerton, Cookbon, S. Doming° Comet, Gilpin. St. John's, New Brunswick. WATERFORD, AUG. 21.—Arrived the Maxgaret, Trinidad. VESSELS SPOKEN WITH.-Asia, of Jersey, for Newfound.* land, 15th inst., lat. 44, lon. 30; Commercial, bound to Quebec, 20thAlat.'47, lon. 20; William Campbell, Havannabs bound to Hamburgh, 21st, lat. 48, lon. 14, by the Monkeys arrived at Falmouth. Margaret, Odessa to Antvcerp, 18th ult., lat. 35, lon. 20 E. ; Kella, of Exeter, 22d, lat. 36, loci. 14 • William Harris, from Naples, 29th, lat. 38, lon. BE. ; Sylph, Swansea to Adra, 4th inst., lat. 36, lon. 3 W. ; Grace , Shields to Constanti n opl e , 6th n i s t. : lat. 36, lon. 6 ; Mary; Liver' pool to St. Thomas, 17th, lat. 42, lon. 12 ; Blucher, Liverpool to Jamaica, lat. 60, lon. 8, by the Mermaid, arrived; at Fal mouth. Cartaretta, of Liverpool, lat. 47, lon. lon. 1.4, by the Lawson, arrived at Scilly. Childers, London to Sy iney, 18th , ult., lat. 7, lon. 3, by the Rambler, arrived at "Liverpool. Jessy M'Clew. from St. John's, New Brunswick. Bth hat. , lat. 44, lon. 57 ; Rockshire, under jury topmasts, I<'6th, lat. 4 6 i lon. 49 ; Chieftain, Hayti to Cork, by the Hana.,,ton, arrive" at Cork. Johns and Mary, of Padstow, 15th, lv t. 31, lon. 1 6, by the Comet, arrived off ditto. Evenwood, 19f.b, lat. 50, I ° l2 ' 11, by the Bleeze, arrived at Kingstown. William Ash, London to Quebec, 22d, lat. 48, lon. If ), by . the Mar garet, arrived off the Wight. Out% ernenung , sterdam to Batavia, 10th ult., lat. 3 P,,F.., lon. 23 lo ci. 25 London to Sydney, 17th nit., lat. 1, !! ) , y, h. 25 ; Fortuna, Rotterdam to Villa Nova, 10th ult., off Scil ly , by the Mercator, arrived at Falmo .ith. Eagle , Lime rick to Quebec, 31 s t ult., lat. 46, lon. 55, by the Enterpr ise r arrived at Fleetwood. Patriot, Bantry Bay to Montreal, le t. 45, lon. 50 ; Pallas, Cork to Quebec, :12th, lat. 48, lon. 26 ; Deveron of and from Greenock, out seven days, 1at.:49. lon . 20, by the Pilot, arrived at Cardiff. John Walker, bound to flue' bee, 29th ult., lat. 46. lat. 56 ; Mea rns , o f Glasgow, 8111 . lat. 46, lon. 41 ; Chieftain, of Cork, with head of foret o l 3- mast gone, 18th, lat. 48, lon. 16; Findon, of Poole, for ditto, lat. 48, lon. 16, by the Seadrift, arrived in that Downs. Ile' pulse, London to Bombay, 6th ult., lat. 19 S., long. 30 W. THE MARKETS. COUNTRY MARKETS. Wheat. 4 Barley. Oats. 1 Beans. P" 0. -...---.. --,- .....-.....-.......-........ ......-.-.-"'' Per Quarter. s. to s. 5. to 5. 5. to s. 5. to 1. e. to 51 Bath Blandford - ..... dridport - 68 - - - -..- -.-. "„, chard..- 5B 72 2 8 3 2 2 2 26 3 8 42 40 ''''' Exeter Gloucester 6O 76 26 32 21 18 40 42 44 49 Guildford Newbury .. ,ge 40 A d Reading„ 54 81 25 36 10 30 .40 45 38 ' Salisbury 's2 62 27 84 SO 25 1 40 50 ---. " I I Sherbortie '74 78 28 31 29 83. 44 48 --: .„ SheptonMallet 79 76 32 37 13 'A t 44 50. 42 Ins Uxbridge 1 - - 37 43 23 26 - -36 --• Warminster 52 72 30 34 25 28 44 49 - -. Winchester . ,45 66 iteovil..-.- LEEDS CORN 31.XRK1 T. _. - Wheat, Norfolk and Suabik. 601 b.. •.... .......... 691. to 775.1 - York. and Lincoln. 601 b... Barley, Norfolk and Sullblk ,,,, lO5. to 335. e" - Yorkshire and Lincolnsittr a .... ........."..... ... 275. tis 315. d - Grinding ' 255. 4.) 225. i 5 Beans 6.3P, 4O:. to 435. 3 Oats, Potatoe ; -Al eating, For. 12d. to 1,..,d Eng. 12%d. to 13%u. per stone 4helling ..... 305. to 325. per lead 691. t 0775.1 • 30s. tts33s. • ....... 255. t 223. 40.. to 435. 3 21s. to 265. • ~.Eng. 12%d. to 13%0. per s load tone 30J. to 325. per tN MARKET. Per Quail ter. s. d. s. d. Oats 24 0 to 30 0 Beans (per sack) :) 0 6 4 Flour (per bag) — U 34 a Bread (nergallon) 1 0 M MARKETS. 1 Per lb. DEVIZES CO Per Sack. B. s, d . eirst Wheat 35 '0 to :6 0 Second 33 0 34 Third darley r.o 0 35 0 CHELTENHA Per Bushel. s. d. to s. d.' Wheat 7 0 3 6 Beef Barley 3 0 •- 3 9 Mutton . ....... Oats 3 0 3 9 Veal ......... •••••••• .••••••• Beans .. 5 0 5 4 Pork . 00000000000 Cease 5 0 8 0 Lamb Hay 41.55. to 41. 10s. Od. per ton. CANTERBURY MARKET. Wheat, white--. 795. to 84s. wows,. d on. 'P.A. to --s 7tls• to 80s. woe.. —s• to --1 Barley, Malting 325. to 365. Grnding.. —s. to —s. Oats Beans— 33s to 495. —s. to s. Pease 335. to —s. 395. to —.41. CHELMSFORD MARKET. Wheat, White 63 to 81 Oats Red Barley 32 35 White Chevalier Is , 36 Beans, Tick. Grinding 27 3l Mangan st a 1 6 1 6 1 6. 7 9 23 to SO :39 49 40 a ss 43 34 " DENT'S LECTURES ON WATCHES. AND OTHER TIME-KEEPERS.—An Illustrated Abstract from TWO LECTURES on the Construction and Manage ment of Chronometers, Watches, and Clocks, delivered by Mr. DENT, ix May, 1841, before the Members of Our United Ser vice Institution has been arranged for the information armor" readers. The Abstract contains a statement of the relays* merits of English and foreign workmanship, wad an explsasatlou of the different Escapements, with instructions for the choic e, regulation, and manageir era of all kinds of rinse-keepers. Tbit Pamphlet is published, by the Author, at No. 82, Strand, pr ior One z.hilling, but gratis to customers on application. PLATE.—A. B. SAVORY and SONS Manu• facturing Silversmiths, No. 14, Cornhill, Londor., opposite the Bank of England. The best wrought FIDDLE PATTERN SILVER SPOONS and FORKS, at 7s. 2d. per ounce. The following are the weights recommended, hut the articles way be had lighter or heavier at the same price pet. ounce. oz. ii. d. A. s• 12 Fiddle Pattern Silver Table Spoons 1 0 at 7 t... 10 15 0 ' 1.2 ditto Dessert ditto... ........ 2O 7 2.... 7 3 4 11 ditto 'table Forks 3O 7 2... 10 15 g 12 ditto Dessert ditto 20 7 2... 7 n 4 2 ditto Gravy Spoons lO 7 2... 3.11 8 1 ditto Soup Ladle le 7 2... 311 8 4 ditto Sauce ditto 10 . 7 P... 3 16 S 4 ditto Salt Spoons (gilt strong)...... 1 0 0 I ditto Fish Slice 12 ditto Tea Spoons la 7 8... 3 16 S !pair ditto Sugar Tongs (strong)...... N. II A Price Current, stamped as a New ,paper, illustrated: by drawings, and containing every inftwmat ion relative to the purchase of silver or Sheffield plate, may 'b e h a d en applica tion, or will be sent into thecountry, tree or postage, in answer to a paid letter. ..------. TABLE CANDLESTICKS, sait.erior tc, Silver for durability, equal in appearance. Tr.blo candlesticks , 8 inches high, 7s. per pair; 9 inches high, 9s. 10 inches, list per pair , ditto, with rich shell mounting.s, inches high. - iss. per pair ; snuffer trays, with shell mouu tie p and chased ceir tre, 4s. each. The particular metal s i . which the° an from great variety of ether articles are mad e, can only.be told silver by reference to the stamp. Cat slo gues RIPPON and BURTON, Welly -street, Oxford -street. T'lheGlradeeynwofieCh: -at-la wiTlavuye'ronfrtehrecy'Rlelt: BIRTF:S. On the 15th ult., ._ at Spanish-tovrn, M. Farquharson, Esq., BarriAter. near jnrn aic-a Ipswich, Perth shire, No•-th Britain. ifr O s. n c tl h ie ar l li ? s th Ha in r s t, t. o , f aa t dau t ug b a e itt T er r . afa l , g ar mpstead the M.cl O w n n 0 o t t h h e d i e ) 2y 3 i d t loi i f n i n s a t .5 inst., n a a , t Wetn e s h a m , E. Lampet, Vicar of Great Bardficld, Essex, of a son and heir. On the '24th inst. at Amen-court, St. Paul's, the wife of the Rev. W. Jt, of a daughter. MARR rE D. dee O n n , ‘ t i he a 1 2l i i ai s n t s n t s a t d . d , c a n t , th y e E o antiggarsih t s so o n h ap o e f l th of e i St. at.:a d j o o h h n n , Aber deen, of Minden Hall, ssex, to Augusts Maria, youngest daughter Lee, E sq ., of W. M. Coe F , .sq., of Brook -street, Grosvenor square. On the 24th inst., at 'Whitney, Arthur Pryor, Esq., of spitalfiolds, to Elizabeth Sophia, eldest daughter of Tomkyng D ew , Esq., of Whitney Court, Herefordshire. On the 24th inst., at st . Nicholas Church, Mr. John Cain pion, ilia, of Park.road, Stockwell, to Catherine, only daugh ter of J. Cordy, Eaq., Bright o n L o d ge , B r i g ht on . On the 24th inst., at St. John's, Isle of Th ane t, th e Rev. Abraham Louis Mi.rtin, 7 ...'rench Wesleyan minister at. Calais, to Laura, eldest da.ughttte of the late Jeremiah Le Soutf, jun., Esq., United States V.ce-Consul at London. D lED. On tho 11th inst.., Edward Grainger, Esq., o'f Twyssop county Denbigh, at Munich. He was Baron of the German empire, and resided many years at Munich. On the 31st inst. , at Leamington, Lady Mad. eod, wife or Major- Gen( ral Sir - Donald MacLeod, Hon. East ;India Com pany's S( rvice. • • On the 22d inst., Mrs. Plumptre, in Bentir ie k- s treet, Man chester-square. On the 22d inst.,, Margaret, the wife of h .. M. Simons, Esq., of Cumberland-ter , :ace, Pentonville„ On the 22d ins t., at St. Peter' s , P or i, : Guernsey, the Rev. Timothy Fysh F. cord-Bowes, Tam , Biding of Yorksh i re , and ner,h ew of the late Ilajor-.Liene al Foord-Bowe s . of Covrlam in tile East On the 24th inst., A, in , of Belvedere-ri Law' Beth.Newby, wife of Mr. G. Smitbo On the 24t1t inst., • at Richmond, Surrey, Mrs..Lotitea Brad* bury, aged SP, iftEIMPIV EMMV OIir London: k l ziated and P u bli s h e d b y MURDO YOUYG, of DI!). 112, St rr ,nd, at The Sun Office, No. 112. Styand,in th e e "kt* le . Middlesex, Friday, Alegutt 27, 1841. EVENING SUN. TIM SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY, AUGUST 27, 1841. EVENING SUN