The Sun. — London, England, 1841-09-29 00:00:00

EVEN 1N G SUN PARLIAMENTARY DI VISIONS. From the Votes and Proceedzngsof the Hotue of Can:mons.' TIESDAY. SEPT. 28. • POOR-LAW. COMMISSION BILL Order for Committee read ; Motion made, and Question put, —" That it be an instruction to the Committee, that they have power to introduce a Clause, that it shall not be lawful for the Commissioners, from the date of the passing of the Bill, to de clare the formation of any new Unions in district' which are net already placed under the operation of the Act 4 and 5 Will. 4, c. 76:"—(Mr. Sharman Crawford).—The House divided. MINORITY—AYES, 49 Aglionby H. A.—Cockermoutk Hollond, Robert—Hastings J Aldam, J. J.—Leeds Johnstone, A.—Renfrew, &c. ' Baldwin Charles Barry—Totnes Lawson , A.—Knaresboroutth Beck«t, Sir J.—Leeds Leader, J. Temple—Westminster Borthwick, P.—Evesham Masterman, J.—London liroadwood, Henry—Bridgewater Mitchell, T. A.—Bridport &bake, Sir A. B.—Fermanagh Morris, D.—Carmarthen Brotherton, J.—Salford MurAy, F. S.—Cork Browne, W. D.—Kerry Napier, Sir Charles —Marylebene Bu kley, E.—Newcastle.on.Tyre O'Brien,A,—N.Northamptonsh ire Cobden, R.—Stockport O'Connell, M. J. —Kerry Collins, W.—Warwick Paget, Frederick—Beaumaris Colvil!e, C.—South Derby Paget, Lord %V.—Andover Dick, Quintiri—MAldon Pechell, Captain—Brighton Egerton, W. 'Patton—Cheshire Rennie G., jun.—lpswich F.scott, B.—Winche s ter Scarlett ," Hon. R.—Horsham Flolden, John'—Oldham Sibthorp, Colonel—Lincoln Fitzroy, Captain—Durham Wakley, Thomas —Finsbury Fleetwood, Sir P. H.—Preston Watson, W. H.—Kinsale Grimsditch, T.—Macclesfleld Wigney, J. N.—Brighten Hanmer, Sir T.-Hull Wortley, Hon. S.—W. Yorkshire Hardy, J.Bradford Wyndham, Colonel—W. Sussex Harford, S.—Lewes Yorke, H. 11.—York -Hayes, Sir E.—Donegal TELLERS. Heathcoat, J.—Tiverton Crawfo r d , S.—Rochdale Henley, J. W.—Oxfordshire herrand, W. B,—Knaresborough MAJORITY — NOES, 131. • A'Court, Captain—Tamworth iHoldsworth. J.—Wake field I 'Acton, Colonel'—Wicklow Co. dope, 0. W.—Weymouth , Howard, Captain—Cricklade Adderiey, C, 8.--Sta' • froidshire Allis, J. P.—Cambridgeshire Howard, Sir IL—Wicklow Co. Antrobus, Edmund—Surrey Ingestre, Viscount—Staffordshire Arbuthnot, General—Kincardine- Jerrnyn. Earl—Bury, Suffolk shire ( Johnson, W. G.—Belfast •• Rogge, W.—West Norfolk ' IJollifie, Sir W. J.—Petersfield litaird, W.—Falkirk, &c. Jones, T.—Londonderry Co. Hubris, W. B.—Thetford IKemble, H.—Fast Surrey Baring. F. T.—Portsmouth Ker, I tavid—Downpatriek Baskerville, T. B.—Herefordshire Knatchbull, Sir E.—East Kent Bodkin, W. H.—Rochester Knight, H. G.—Nottinghamshire Boldero, Henry o.—Chippenham l.arpent, G. De H.—Nottingham Boscawen, Lord—W. Cornwall Layard, Captain - Carlow Co Botfield, Bcrlah—Ludlow Legit, G. C.—North Cheshire Bowes, John—South Durham Leicester. Lord —Bodmin Bowring, Dr.—Bolton Lindsay, H. H. --: andwich Broariley, Henry—East Yorkshire Lockhart, A. M.—Lanarkshire Bruce, Lord E.—Marlborough Lowther. J. H.—York Ituller' Charles—Liskeard Lyall, G.—London .Buller, Sir J. Yarde—Devonshire Mackenzie, W. F.—Peeblessbire Burrell Sir C.—Shoreham M 4 Geachy, F.—Honiton Campbell, A —zArgyllshire March, Earl of—West Sussex Clayton, R.—Aylesbury Marsham, Lord—West Kent Cletk, Sir G.—Stamford Martin, W.—Newport, Lof Wight Clive, R. H. South Shropshire Morgan, o.—Monmouthshire Cochrane, A.—Btidport I Mundy, E. M.—South Derbyshire Cole, Hon. ArthurH.—Enniskillen Neville, R.—Windsor Coote, Sir C.—Queen's County Newry, Lord—Newry Courtenay, Lord—S. Devonshire I Nicholl, J.—Cardift Crosse, T. B.—Wigan Ogle, S.—South Northumberland , Darby, George—East Sussex Pakington, J. S.—Droitwich Nlawnay, Hon. H.—Rutland Philips, Mark—Manchester Dickinson, J. H.—West Somerset Planta, Joseph—Hastings Douglas, J. S.—Rochester Polhill, Frederick—Bedford Dugdale, W. S.—Warwickshire Pollock, Sir F.—Huntingdon Duncan, G.— Dundee Pringle, AleXander—Selkirkshire Duncombe, Hon. o.—Yorkshire Rawdon. John Dawson—Armagn Emlyn, Lord—rembrokesh ire Reade, M.—Waterford City Estcourt, T. G. B.—Oxford Univ. Reid, Sir John Rae—Dover Ferguson, Colonel —Kirka'dy Repton, G. W.—St. Alban's Fleming, John—Hampshire Rose, Sir George—Christchurch Follett, Sir W.—Exeter Rushbrooke, Colonel—Suffolk Forbes. W.—Stirlingshire Scott, Hon. F.—Roxburghshire Forster, M.—Berwick-on Tweed Shaw, Right Hon. F.—Dublin Un. Fuller, A. K—East Sussex 'Sheppard, Thomas—Frome Gaskell, James Milnes—W'enloelt ,Smith, It. V.—Northampton Gladstone, W. E.—Newarx.on- Somerset, Lord G.—Monmeuthsh "Trent Sotheron, T. H.—Desires Gordon, Hon. W .— Aberdeenshire Stanley, Lord—North Lancashire Gore, M.—Barnstaple Stanton ' W. H.—Stroud Goring, H. D.—New Shoreham Stuart, H —Bedford 6oulburn, Right Hon. 11.—Cam. Sutton, C. M.—Cambridge bridge University 'Taylor, Capt. K —Dublin Co. , Graham, Right Hon. Sir J. 11. G Tennent, J. K—Relfast '-Dorchester Trenzt, Sir F.—Scarborough Granger, T. C.—Durham Trollope, Sir J.—S. Lincolnshire Greene, T. G.—Lancashire Trotter, John—West Surrey Grimstoo, Visc.—Hertfordshire Tumor, C.—South Lincolnshire Grogan, E.—Dubiiii Vane, Lord H.—South Durham Guest, J. J.—Merthyr Tydvi I Verner, William—Armagh Co. ~Hamilton, W.—Newport, Isle of Vesey, Hon. T —Queen's Co. Wight Vivian, Captain— reoryn Hamilton, Lord C.—Tyrone I Ward, H. U.—SheMeld Harcourt, G. 0. V.—Oxfordshire Wood, Charles—Halifax • Hardinge, Right Hon. Sir H.— Wood, Colonel T.—Middlesex Launceston TELLERS. Herbert, Hon. S.—South Wilts Fremantle. Sir T.—Buckingham •:. Hodgson, ltd.—Berwick-on.Tweedßaring, H. B.—Marlborough 'Motion Made, and Question put—" That it be an Instrue. tion to the Committee, that they hare power to make provi sion in the Bill, that it shall not be lawful for the Commis sioners to disallow, by any general or other order, any pay ments which shall be made by the authority of a Board of Guardians for the relief of any poor persons or their families out of the workhouse, notwithstanding any powers given to them by the Act 4 and 5 Will. 4, c. 76, to the contrary :" (Mr. Sharman Crawford)—Tbe House divided, MINORITY—AYES, 32. Aglionby, H. A. Ferrand, W. B. O'Connell, V J. Aldam, William Fleetwood, Sir P. H. Paget, Lord W. Baldwin, C. Barry Hardy, John Pechell, Captain Borth w ick, Peter Hanford, Summers Rennie, George Broadwood, 1 - I. Heathcoat, John Sibthorp, Colonel Brothertcm, J. Hol ond, Robert Wakley, Thomas Browne, W. Howard, H. Wats n, W. H. Cobden, Richard Johnstone, Alex. Wigney, I. N. Collins, W. Leader, J. T. Colville, C. R V Morris, David MUMS. Dick, Quintin Murphy, F. S. Crawford, W S. Fielden, J. Napier, Sir Charles Yorke, H. Redhead LLO YD'S SHIPPING—(THIS DAY.) LorinoN, Serr. 29.—Wind this day at noon, W. to S.W. Livenroot, Sem. 28.—Wind S.W.—Arrived the Breeze, from Jamaica; Sir Charles Napier, Hill, St. Steven's; Han nibal, Anderson, Buctush ; Winscales, Quebec. Sailed the Trot field, for Batavia ; Rosianna, Calcutta; Sandbach, De merara; Crusader, Honduras; Mary Bibby, Grenada; Re public, New York; John Ormerod, Civita Vecchia. Ar rived off, the America, St. John's, New Brunswick ; Wilson, supposed from Texas. OFF MARGATE, SEPT. 28.—Arrived ife Vigilant, Grant, born Honduras, with loss of anchor and chain, and windlass damaged ; Duke of Clarence and Statira, Jamaica. DEAL, SEPT. 28.—Wind S.W. by S. strong breeze. Arrived the John, Foreman, from Jamaica. Arrived from the Itiver, Sydney, for Hobart Town ; Barrys, Cape of Good Hope. RAMSGATE, SEPT. 28.—Jnyerna, London, for Cape de ' Verdi, slipped anchor and chain ; Cristina, du., for St. Jago de Cuba, stern stove in the harbour. PLYMOUTH, SEPT. 28.—Sailed the Copy, for the River Gambia. It has' blown a' heavy gale at S. all night. The Nie Lodskenck, and Isabella Allen, have lost an anchor each, and part of chains. 31, FaLmotivii, SePT. 27.—Wind W. to S., fresh gales and lquallY.—Sailed the Royal Tar steamer, for Vigo, &c. THE SPECTACLE MAKERS' COM PANY. Yesterday evening this Worshipful Company had their annual dinner at the London Coffee House, Ludgate hill, Alderman Sir James Duke, M.P., Master of the Company, in the Chair. There were about two hundred gentlemen present, among whom were Alder men Johnson, Sir George Carroll, Gibbs, &c. ; Alderman kagnay and Mr. Rogers, Sheriffs ; several Members of Parliament, including Mr. P. M. Stewart, Cap tain Bolder°, Captain Plumridge, RN. . Colonel Campbell, &c. ; several members of the bar, includ ing Mr. C. Phillips, Mr. Clarkson, the City Soli citor, Mr. Charles Pearson, &c., the Under-Sheriffs, and a, number of gentlemen connectd with the arts, science, and literature. The dinner and wines were of the first order, and afforded general satisfaction. Sir JAMES LUKE made an excellent Chairman, and proposed the various toasts in a spirited and becoming man tom, especially those of " Her Majesty," " Prince Albert, and the Princess Royal," so as to elicit very great applause. Indeed it was amusing to observe how cordially the To lies cheered the Queen, for, as a wag observed, " They thought they could now see her through their own spectacles, and she was indeed a Queen ! " so say we. But politics f med no part of the hilarity of the evening. Every man magnified his neighbour through the medium of good cheer into an equality , with himself, and certainly the various toasts were 'lt sponded to with a cordiality of good feeling which did great honour to a company composed of such a diversity of public opinion: - When " The Navy and Army" wore given, Captain PLUMRIDGE and Colonel CAMPBELL returned thanks—the former saying that, much as had been of late said respecting the inefficiency of the Naval Administration, he could with certainty affirm that never in the annals of England was the peace esta blishment of the Navy on a better footing--(Cheers)— and if war should hereafter arise, the enemies of Eng land would find out that our Ordnance Board had made such improvements in the arts of destruction as would utterly astonish them.—(Great applause.) Colonel CAMPBELL very modestly echoed the sentiments of his brother officer, and observed, that of all other places the City of London had the distinguished honour of not only doing justice to her brave defenders by sea and land, but of proving her high sense of their patriotic services by sutiatatitial and encouraging proofs of her good opinion,—(This expression was so truly correct that it elicited unbounded applause.) The City of London stands pre-eminent in her noble appreciation of worthy and illustrious deeds. The usual toasts fol lowed, but there was one peculiarity in that of " the Sheriffs"—the new Administration of Criminal ts z. Justice—and it was this, that the last and the Present * Sheriffs belonged to the Spectacle-makers' Com . „ pany. Perhaps it was . nthing singular, for Sir JAMES DUKE observed, that the Company had the honour of enrolling among its members a great number of names illustrious in all the first departments of life l and the reason is very obvious, for all who join this excellent Comp a ny immediately acquire the "second sight" with out the trouble of going " farther north." Connected with this toast there was another circumstance which Dive it additional interest, and it was this, when Alder man MAGNAY returned thanks, stating tint the dignity of the office would lose nothing in his hands, Ids brother Sheriff, Mr. TitostAs Roomta, in a speech of great feeling and modesty, reiterated the a.ssuratmes of his colleague, •.' nd,. pointing to a beautiful banner, whieh he had the honour of presenting to the , Company of Speetecle akers, said, that young as he was in the world, he felt great pride and satisfaction in belonginii to such a So is e tety, and that it would be the endeavour of his life so t! cond uct hi mse lf as to mer i t , not on l y the i r goo d t w nn but that of his own eonseience in the f a ithful cut discharg e o f hi s pu bli c d ut i es. —(Ch eers .) H e b egged to esent that flag, which waved over their heads in the gsinPany of "other honoured memorials," as a t o k en o f . esteem, gratitude, and sincere hope that they would Pport him in the arduonsduty which had devolved on him to perfor m .—(G reat cheer i ng,) Th e b us i ness of the ev ening passed on very pleasantly till it was more g- in . 4 , , b • 1 the speech o f that patriotic gentleman Mr. eas so 1: A MICK MAXWELL STEWART, who, in returning thanks 5it5_zi,,b;d4..,,,,,,-..,anertaeinnment, said, in ',New: for the Members of the House of Commons present at the allusion to the diversity of °pi ll: r .,_Ams • tertained in the Howe, that it reminded him of ",L,L ) ' ll '''l well. known lines on the dispute betwaen the nose ▪ • -- ky„, sR that the to which th e spectacles belonged, and Its same h e the Af allN oes dr ria belon and .”_-( ged " right or wrong" was much the honourable Members present and himself, fur th to the House of " Ayes int laught er .) 'Dv re§tivities of the evening t erm i nate a great good feeling. t gurt se3. as w 1,); 40 . 4 FA I SLEY.--:1 Ite ministers of Paisley, of all de " nominations, have agreed to address her Majesty on the condi= tion of the vcorking classes in all the manufacturing districts, Issi 4 4,-.4, and to implore her not to all Parliament till some effec ,rl,,,„;,,,f: five measures have been taken for their relief. We hope a step so honourable, and so full of sound policy, will be very exteN siveiy imitated.— Glasgow Arg Hs. SECOND EDITION SUN OFFICE, Seven o' Clock. SPIRIT of the PUBLIC JOURNALS. FROM THE EVENING PAPERS OF THIS DAY. GLOBE.—War on the Factories is the cry of the Squires, to meet the watchword of war on the Corn laws. Mr. Ferrand put himself forward last night as their boisterous and boiling representative. War on the factories? Very well, gentlemen. You can make war on them, if you think proper. It will be well, however, that you consider beforehand, how you shall pay your troops. You can enlist certainly the most ignorant part of the population in your most ignorant quarrel. You can get your drunken freemen, and the unemployed desperates of our towns, to echo your cry, of " Down with the manufacturing system!" You can lead men, pinched with the want which your law of the lied has inflicted on them, to believe that those who are nearest are the right objects of their rage and vengeance—that thole who employ them are answerable for the scant food they can earn by labour, and even for the slackened employment which proves that capital is working without profit. You can lead ignorant men to believe that masters regulate wages by their own will ; and that when wages fall, and food rises, their immediate employers are answerable. You can screen from their view the truth that one class of capitalists, and one only, can and do affect the rate of wages, and the comforts those wages can buy. That class is the class who speculate on a nation's subsistence ! —who combine to stint the supply of that subsistence ; in order to raise its price—who prohibit returns in food for exports of British commodities, and thereby sentence the manufacturing masses to periods of want and woe. Yes !—those periods recur—they recur with ever-increas ing intensity—they draw disease and sordid recklessness Wall but bare life in their train—they stamp ,their wild and haggard physiognomy on the myriads of our towns —and they teach no other lesson to the bread-barring caste who rule us, than the base lesson of recrimination and insult on those they ruin and starve. STANDARD.—Upon the House going into Com mittee upon the Poor-law Commission Continuance Bill, a. very long debate was raised, and in the course of this debate the whole subject of the New Poor-law was can vassed. This discussion was no more than was to be expected, considering the opportunity it afforded for making a seeming show of division in the Conserva tive party, but it was nevertheless uncalled for and irregular. The question before Parliament,is simply this —shall the Commission be continued from. the 31st of December to the 31st of July; or shall the New Poor law, which, in its present unmodified state, cannot be administered without such a Commission, be left to administer itself, and throw the country into confusion ? It is quite plain that, under such cir cumstances, there is no choice between the implicit continuance of the Commission and at once engaging with the consideration of the whole law, through di its provisions and details. It will not suffice to admit partial amendments and modifications ; for once allow that the question is open for such partial amend ments and modifications, and every one of the 658 Mem bers of the House of Commons will have the right to urge his favourite proposition. Now, it may be right that the Parliamentary business of the year shall lave begun on the 19th of August, 1841, to be continued without inter ruption to —say the 19th of August, 1842. Upon this point it is unnecessary to speak at present ; hut if this is not right, and the understanding in Parliament is, that such a perpetual Session would be inconvenient, there can be no doubt that a question of such mag nitude as the New Poor-law Bill ought not to be dis cussed in a hurried remnant of a short Session. We have as strong an objection as ever to the harsher provisions of the New Poor-law ; and we have little doubt that in a Conservative House of Commons these harsh provisions will be mitigated, and the harsh ad ministration of the law guarded against ; and' for that reason it is that we are anxious that the subject shall be left untouched until Parliament can sit down, calmly and deliberately, to deal with it, which Parliament cannot do at present. MPERIAL PARLIAMENT. (THIS EVENING.) HOUSE OF COMMONS. The SPEAKER took the Chair at five minutes before Five. Lord LEVESOI4 took the oaths and his seat for Lich field. Sir G. COCKBURN took the oaths and his seat .for Ripon. Mr. GREENE brought up the Report of the Private Bills Committee on the Duke of Marlborough's Estate Bill, Riddell's Estate Bill, and Clayton's Name Bill. CORN-LAWS. The lion. H. BERKELEY presented petitions against the Corn-laws, and praying the House not to separate until it had carried into effect her Majesty's gracious re commendation in her Speech at the beginning of the Ses sion—from the Congregation of Presbyterians in Lewin's Mead, Bristol ; and from Dissenting Congregations at Kingsdown (Wilts) ; North Nibley, Wootton. under- Edge, and other places in Gloucestershire. Sir J. BECKhT presented a petition, which was agreed to at a meeting convened in Leeds by the Mayor, praying for a repeal of the present Corn-laws, to the operation of which the petitioners ascribed the extreme distress under which the manufacturers were suffering. Alr. GIBSON presented a petition from an indvidual residing in Lambeth, complaining that the Corn•laws were grievously injurious to the most important interests of the country, and praying that the food to be consumed in the work-houses might be allowed to be taken out of bond free of duty. Mr. FIELDEN gave notice that on the Order of the Day being read for a third reading of the Poor-law Commission Continuance Bill he should move that the Bill be read a third time that day six months. RETURNS. _ _ Mr. ORD moved for returns relating to the importa tion of cotton, wool, raw silk, and indigo. Mr. WARNER'S INVENTION. On the Order of the Day for the second reading of the Exchequer Bills Bill being read, Mr. WAKLEY said he wished to put a question to the Gallant Secretary of the Board of Ordnance, relating to the invention of Mr. Warner. The subject had been brought before the House last Sessibn, on which occasion many Members had borne evidence to the extraordinary nature of the invention ; and in the debate on the esti mates the Right lion. Baronet at the head of the Go vernment had admitted that he had seen one of the experiments, and that he had witnessed the most extraordinary , effects. Statements had been made the other night by the Honourable and Gallant Member . for the Tower Hamlets, and ' by some other Hon. Members that Mr. Warner had objected to the appointment of a Committee to investigate the nature of his invention, Mr. Warner and his friends complained of that statement. The fact was that Mr. Warner was most anxious to have a Committee appointed to investi gate his invention, and he was most desirous that the Government should be fully satisfied as to the nature of his invention before they adopted it. Mr. Walseby said that shortly after Mr. Warner's return from Portu gal the subject had been mentioned in the House of Commons, but had been stopped by the then First Lord of the Admiralty, Sir J. Graham, who suggested that a Committee should be appointed to investigat. It had been appointed accordingly, but Sir R. Stopford, the Chairman thought it was too numerous, and some alte rations were suggested in it, but Sir Robert Stopford shortly afterwards left England for the Mediterranean. Sir Richard Ideates, another member of the Committee, died, and his NI ajesty, who had taken a great interest in the subject also died shortly afterwards, so that the sub ject had never been investigated. The Gallant Captain the Member for Gloucester had stated that Captains in the navy mi;ht object to admit the invention on board their ships, for fear of being blown up ; but he under stood that when the subject should be investi gated it would appear that such apprehensions were groundless. When the subject was discussed in June last the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies had stated that some explanation ought to be given, and had promised that further negociations with Mr. Warner should take place. He was anxious to know if any in vestigation had been instituted. Colonel FOX said that he believed that the Master General of the Ordnance, Lord Vivian, bad wished to refer Mr. Warner to the usual Committee at Woolwich, for the investigation of inventions of the nature of that brought forward by Mr. Warner, and that Gentleman had refused to submit his invention to that Committee. With regard to what had fallen from the Hon. and Gal lant Member for Marylebone the other evening, in rela tion to the muskets supplied to the Navy, he supposed that the observations of that Gallant Officer ap plied only to the old arms formerly issued, and not to those which had recently been given out.—(Hear.) His, Noble Friend's attention bad been most closely di rected to the subject for the last three or four years. He knew that upwards of 6,000 muskets, with the percussion lock, had been constructed —most of them had been dis tributed. They had received .the approbation of all the officers. Complaints had been made with regard to the Royal Marines. He believed that 4,000 or 5,000 of those muskets had been given to that corps, w hich had received the unqua lifi ed approbation of the officers.athe His reason for m a ki ng t h e statement might not io forward t o t h e pu b l i c ]ate Master-General of th e O rdnance wasattthat lt had neglected his duty. Captain BOLDER °, in reply to the Hon. Member for Finsbury, said, the Master-General of the present board had not received any communication from Mr. Warner on the subject of the invention. Mr. WAKLEY said that the question was whether it was the intention of the Board of Ordnance to institute any inquiry on the , subject. Captain BO to take upon himself the o LDLRO said the Master - General did not consider himself authorized responsibility of appointinga 123 debate referred to by the Hon. Member for Finsbury. Mr, BROTHERTON said, in the he had entered his ,previous sanction of her c mittee, without the Majesty's Ministers. . protest against the Government givi n g their sanction in offering a reward to men who exercised their talent and ingenuity in discovering some infernal machine for the destruction of human life. Ira man used his talents to promote the happines of his race he was entitled to re ward, but not for using them for an opposite purpose. He had h ear d, w ith g rea t d e light, the anno un cement of _ the Right H on . B arone t (Si r R. Peel) that he would use all his influnce to diffuse those sentiments in so ciety which would lead men to discourage war. fia must say his heart had burned within blip, when on a previous evening he heard the Muse debating about locks and guns, and variops other in struments used in war, ---(A laugh,) What would th e next generation think o f t h e presen t when they read that the House of Commons of that day had debated for hours about implements of destruction?—(Hear, hear.) He believed that until war and warriors were held in less estimation, there was no hope of good for this country. Certainly on all occasions he should enter his protest against rewardbeing granted for inventions of the nature then under discussion, because he conceived that the more they discouraged war, the more would civiliza tion advance throughout the world. In reply to a question from an Hon. Member, whose name we could not learn, Lord STANLEY said that the inquiries made by Pr. Madden on the coast of Africa, were of so private a na ture, that he must at present decline laying the reports on the table. Mr. WAKLEY begged to assure the Hon. Member for Salford that the object of investigating the invention of Mr. Warner was, first, on the ground of humanity; and, secondly, on that of economy. On the motion of Sir G. CLARKE, the Exchequer Bills Bill was read a second time. On the Order of the Day, for the second reading of he Exchequer Bills Funding Bill, POPULATION PAYMENTS BILL. The Report on this Bill was brought up, and the Bill was ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. EXPIRING LAWS BILL. This Bill, on the motion of Sir George Clerk, was read a third time and passed. POOR LAW COMMISSION BILL. On the motion for bringing up the Report of the Poor Law Commission Bill, Mr. WAKLEY said he was anxious to learn, on the present occasion, whether the Bon. Member for Sheffield was prepared to state to the House the name and ad dress of the Guardian of the Union, with where he had held the conversation to which he alluded last night. Mr. WARD said he certainly was not prepared to state any thing of the kind. The conversation had taken place six months ago, and he thought it was more than probable that the individual would not allow his name to be mentioned. Mr. WAKLEY had no objection to adopt the course, if the House allowed Hon. Gentlemen to state conversa tions they had with parties, those conversations casting calumnies on Hon. Members. But he thought the mat ter was of so much importance, that without entering into any hostility with the Honourable Member, which he trusted he should tiever be charged with, he should sift this matter to the bottom. The character of the House, and the safety and security of Hon. Mem bers, was at stake, because, if conversations of this kind were to be related by persons under no re sponsibility, he would like to know where was the protection for debate. (Hear, hear, hear.) As the Hon. Gentleman had refused the name and address of the Guardian, he (Mr. W.) would go through the Board of Guardians of the Union, and ask every individual Member whether it occurred or not. They should then know in whose mind the calumny and slander originated. —(Cries of " Order.") The SPEAKER begged leave to call the attention of the House to what he believed to be the rules of the House. When an Hon. Member stated anything in his place in that House, it was considered to be made on the honour of that Member.—(Hear, hear.) It was clearly out of order, therefore, to make any allusion to what oc curred out of that House. Mr. WARD said that he could see nothing in the con versation that bore on the Hon. Member's case. It was not fit that every Member should be left to interpret the principles of a new law, or to have a Mr. Wakley in every Board to pronounce upon the principles of the law. He did not mean that what he had said should re ceive a personal construction, and he did not think that it could be so received. Mr. WAKLEY said he would bow to the decision of the Chair at once. The Hon. Gentleman had not quoted all the words he had stated last night.. The SPEAKER said that the Hon. Member was again out of order, as it was not right to refer to a former debate. The Report was then ordered to be received and to be read a third time on Monday. Sir G. CLERK said that, for the convenience and des patch of business, he would move that petitions be pre sented at a quarter past four, instead of half-past four, as heretofore. On the question that the House do now adjourn, Lord INGESTRE was about to make some explana tion respecting the invention of Capt. Warner, when The SPEAKER said the Noble Lord was out of order in alluding to a former debate. Lord INGEStRE would take another opportunity of making his explanation. The House then adjourned. • STATE OF TRADE. There was not quite so much demand for yarn yes terday as on the preceding Tuesday, owing, perhaps, in some degree to the non-arrival of a Russian mail which was expected. Prices, however, were perfectly steady. Goods were much the same as last week ; the prices steady, but the market entirely without animation. ROCHDALE FLANNEL MARKET, MONDAY, SEPT. 27. The market has been thinly atttended to-day, and there has been a great falling-off in the demand for flannels. In prices there is no change. The wool market has also been very dull, but prices steady. HUDDERSFIELD MARKET, SEPT. 28.—This was a comparatively flat market, although, in some descriptions of fancies, heavy sales were made at fair prides ; but re cent failures in Manchester and other places have caused misgivings, which operate unfavourably, by inducing a degree of caution and timidity that tends to paralyze bu siness. Prices, however, are firm, and a fair general business is doing in the warehouses.—Manchester Guar dian. LEICESTER TRADE.—The demand for goods is dull for the season. The hosiers complain of the difficulty they experience in obtaining the smallest profit on their sales; and, in some cases, sacrifices are submitted to with the view of clearing off stock. Business is far from being in a healthy or satisfactory condition ; but wool is firm, without alteration in price. —Leicester Chronicle. LATEST MANCHESTER BETTING. MANCHESTER TUESDAY EVENING.—Th e room was pretty well attended this forenoon, but we did not hear a single offer upon the Newmarket events of the present week. The races touched upon were as follow : THE MOSTYN STAKES.—For this rapidly approach ing race, which is annually much speculated upon in the provincial circles, Lampoon has been, by one or two gentlemen, rather heavily backed at 7 to 2, and 3 to 1. 50 to 20 was offered at the opening of business ; 18 to 5 was asked for. After a large majority of the company had gone down stairs, a gentleman from the country, probably not aware of the state of the market, laid one bet of 30 to 5 against her ; and, in a few mi nutes afterwards, another of 25 to 5. The layer of the odds wanted to back Ghuznee at 5 to 1, but there was no one left who would risk the price ; we should say 4 to 1 would be pencilled down against anything, bar Lampoon. THE CESAREWITCH STAKES.-60 to 10 was offered against each of two. Ruler's party are numerous, plenty of takers of 8 to 1 ; 200 to 16 was offered on the field " bar three," but as the room broke up was accepted. The horses we heard named were as follow :- 5 to 1 agst Mr. Bell's The Squire—offered. 7 to 1 agst Mr. Eddison's The Ruler—taken, then offered. 10 to 1 agst Mr. Payne's Welfare—offered freely. 200 to 16 agst Lord Palmerston's Ilioni—taken. 14 to I agst Mr. Goodman's Orelia—offered to take 15 to 1. 15 to 1 agst Lord Exeter's Bosphorus offered freely. 20 to 1 agst Corsair—off. 20 to 1 agst Miss Stilton—taken yesterday. 20 to 1 agst Duke of Wellington—taken yesterday. 30 to 1 agst Lord Miltown'sWirrestrew—t. then off. 200 to 6 agst Rory O'More—taken and then offered. Offers in a leading channel to take 35 fifties to one, or any part on Wirrestrew. THE DERBY.—The only bets we heard were 200 to 8 and one or two other bets v. Auckland ; 1,000 to 30 was offered against one, and 1,000 to 40 against the other horse of the Marquis of Westminster's. Offers to take 500 to 10 on Gunter, or lay. 20 ponies to one against anything of Scott's " bar one.' EXTRAORDINARY ATTEMPTS AT SUICIDE AT BLACKFRIARS BRIDGE.—The mania for attempts at suicide at this bridge has unfortunately not yet ceased. Yesterday morning, about eleven o'clock, John Ware, who has been the means of saving the lives of upwards of twenty individuals, was successful in rescuing another, after a most determined suicidal attempt. About the hour above stated, a young lady was observed on the steps on the south (Surrey) side of the bridge. The tide was about half-flood, and was running up very strong. She was extremely well dressed. She had been but a short time on the steps, when she deliberately placed a small hand-basket on one of them, and leaped over the railings into the water, which is at least 12 feet deep. Scarcely had the young lady been conveyed to the workhouse, when another person tried to destroy herself on the other side. She was a : woman apparently fifty years of age ; her name is Elizabeth Bollard, and she resides at Saffron-hill. At half-past three she walked deliberately down the stairs of the bridge on the right hand side, and having walked up to the middle in the mud and water, coolly sat herself down. With some difficulty she was got out of the river in a most de plorable plight. The police wore called, and she was conveyed on a stretcher to the station-house in Black horse -court. --- VAUXHALL GARDENS.—The public have been already informed that this celebrated place of amuse ment has been sold by auction, under an order of the Court of Review, for the benefit of the creditors of the estate of Messrs. Gye and Hughes. An opinion was very generally entertained that the new proprietor, ►Mr. Foster, would devote at least a portion of the very am ple site he has acquired a right over to public amuse ments upon a more limited Scale. It is his intention, however, when the bargain is finally completed, which must be in December, to lay down the whsle area for building ground, which for that purpose will derive ad ditional value, should the Commissioners of Metropoli tan Improvements be induced to allot any portion of the Parliamentary grant towards the formation of two new lines of street from Vauxhall to the Westminster -road, of which a very confident expectation is entertained. Mr. Foster had the option of taking the fixtures of the Gardens— such as the pavilion, the orchestra, the ro tunda, the theatre, the firework-gallery, the Italian tem ple, &c., at a valuation ; hut, having declined doing so, the assignees of Gye and Hughes have directed the whole to be sold. LOVE'S TELEGRAPH.—If a gentleman wants a wife, he wears a ring on the first finger of the left hand ; if he be engaged, he wears it on the second fin ger ; if married, on the third ; and on the fourth if he never intends to be married. When a lady is not en gaged, she wears a hoop or diamond on her first finger; if engaged, on the second ; if married, on the third ; and on the fourth if she intends to die a maid. The last is seen about once in an age. " I shall prevent the use of ardent spirits," as the innkeeper said when he watered the liquors. hem. BRITISH IRON COMPAN - A meeting of the Proprietors in the above Company was held in the London Tavern this 'day. Sir GEORGE LIRPENT took the Chair at one o'clock and said, that being a General Special Meeting, there were no minutes to be read. Having read the setter calling the meeting, he said he had to inform the Proprietors that since their last meeting their solicitors, Mr. Stevens and Mr. Maitland, had retired—the former on account of advanced age, and the latter because of the distance of his offices. The Directors had appointed Mr. Freshfield their solicitor, and he trusted the appoint ment of so talented and respectable a man would give satisfaction to the proprietors. The Directors had unanimously awardtid their thanks to their late solicitors, and he read letters from them in acknowledgement of the resolution. Mr. RICARDO, the Chairman of a Committee of Proprie -tors, appointed to consider of _the conduct and accounts of the Directors, &c., then read the report. It stated that they were appointed at a special meeting in June la it, to consider the accounts; and the best mode of closing the business of the Company, or otherwise. It appeared to the Com mittee that the main object was to determine on the re commendation they should give their fellow proprietors with respect to the future operations of the Company, and more especially on the important question of closing the works. The Company had been formed in 1825, but they had not thought it part of their duty to go in detail through all the accounts from that time. They had examined and verified the statement made by the Directors at the last meeting, and they felt them selves compelled to report that the books appeared to have been kept with great care and correctness. Most of the evils under which the Company had suffered, and were suffering, 'arose out of the ruinous engagements contracted in 1825. On the formation of the Com pany they involved it in litigation . that was unex ampled in this country, and consequently- entailed upon them these enormous expences. The judgment of the House of Lords reversing that of Lord Lynd hurst, was wholly unexpected by any party, but it made a difference in the cash funds of the Company to the amount of 850,0001. After the judg ment of the House of Lords, an agreement was entered into with Mr. Attwood, and the Committee reported that ' under all the then circumstances of. the Company it was the best thing that could be done. The Directors, however, ' were placed in circumstances of very great difficulty by the non-payment of calls upon shares, which diffi culties tended to depreciate the value of their pro perty. Upon a consideration of the , cost of making and the price of iron, they were of opinion that a profit of 38,5001. might still be made if the works were in full operation—still, considering the whole of the circumstances in which they were placed, the Committee, although the works might be carried on by other parties to considerable profit, they were of opinion that it was their duty to recommend the final dissolution of the Company, as soon as it was possible to sell the works without suffering the loss necessarily attendant upon a forced sale ; this to be carried into effect by a Committee of Proprietors co-operating with the Directors. In order to e&ct such a desirable object it was necessary that the works should be carried on in full action; and that could only be done by the Proprietors paying up their calls. The Hon. Gentleman said much as misapprehension appeared to prevail among tEe Proprie tors in relation to their individual liabilit) , the Committee inquired and found that everything that had been done was with the full sanction of the Proprietors, and upon their votes the credit of the Court was pledged ; there fore, they were individually, morally, and in honour, as well as legally, liable for all that was owing. No steps could be taken for the sale of the property while the Company were involved as they now were; and as they were threatened with another suit in Chancery, it was most important that immediate steps should be taken. The Committee could not close their labours without freeing the Directors from asper sions cast upon them for errors committed sixteen years ago. They were of opinion that they were fully entitled to the thanks of the Proprietors. . The CHAIRMAN said, before any motion was put, or they entered into any discussion upon the Report, he begged to state that it was as entirely unknown to him self and the other Directors as to any one in the room. They had abstained from interfering in any way with the Committee, as they were anxious only that the Proprietors should be satisfied. He had to propose that the Report just read be received, printed, and circulated amongst the Proprietors. It would scarcely be possible that they should discuss a Report which they could not possibly understand. Mr. HORSLEY PALMER, Deputy Chairman, seconded the motion. It was necessary that i pll parties shoukl have time carefully to consider a doelliment of such vast importance. Major .RICUARDSON did not mean to discuss the ques tion now, but he thought it was too long to allow the matter to stand over till November. They ought to have a Special Meeting within a month, and he would move accordingly. Mr. Brcnino—The recommendation of the Commit tee was framed so as, if possible, to avoid these conti-, nual special meetings. The general meeting might be held within five or six weeks. Major RICHARDSON had no objection to wait that time. The CHAIRMAN said, if they fixed upon six weeks from that time all the accounts would be ready. Major IIicHARDsoN thought that an object worth wait ing for, and had no objection to the postponement. The CHAIRMAN said the great object was to have all the accounts ready, and the Secretary said it would take till very nearly the middle of November. I-Ie therefore proposed that the meeting s h o uld t a k e place on or before the 20th of November. A PROPRIETOR objected to the word " received " in the resolution. He did not think the Report of the Committee had yet been received. The CHAIRMAN said the resolution was in the very words of the advertisement calling the meeting. They were to receive or reject the Report of the Committee. The resolution was then put and agreed to unani mously. Mr. JACKSON complained of the manner in which the Report had been got up. It had been prepared to meet the views of the Directors, who had appointed their personal friends on the Committee.—(Loud cries of "No, no.") He should forego his rights as a partner, and forfeit his independence as a man, if he consented to receiving the Report. If it should come into his possession, he should tear it to pieces, and trample it under his feet.—(Hisses, and cries of " Shame !") He was not satisfied with the ap pointment of Mr. Freshfield, and should move a Com mittee upon the subject. The Directors had no right to make that appointment without consulting the Share holders. The statements of the report were full of mis statements, and was a disgrace to them. He complained of the manner in which the meeting had treated the gentleman near him (Major Richardson). They had met his ob servations with marked scorn and contempt. Major RICHARDSON—That I deny. I totally deny it. —(Cheers.) Mr. JACKSON resumed.—The calls made by the Direc tors were illegal, and he or his friends should never pay Major RICIIARDSON said, as some of his friends seemed to have an idea that the receiving the report would be in some wey binding upon them, he begged to say that they were not bound by the resolution, but would discuss the report at the next meeting.—(Hear.) The CHAIRMAN presumed, that having agreed to a resolution to discuss the Report at their next meeting, they would not now entertain the resolution, of which notice had been given, for the immediate dissolution of the Company, as that would be at variance with the one that had just been passed. Mr. WILKINSON said, as the Report had only been read once to the meeting, it was important that the portion of it referring to the dissolution of the Company should be distinctly understood, as it might otherwise prejudice their interests. He wished to know whether the Report did not distinctly recommend that no steps should be taken that would interfere with the carrying on the business of the Company ? Mr. RICARDO said the Hon. Gentleman was perfectly correct. It recommended that the operations of the Company should be carried on exactly as if they were to continue the Company in its present form. Mr. HonsLEy PALsir.a thought it of very great im portance that that should be distinctly understood, be cause the value of mineral property was greatly affected by the permanency and character of the works.— (Hear, hear.) Although the works and property of the Company were of considerable value, it would be perhaps impossible, under such circumstances, to get any person to purchase it. If the works were suddenly stopped in the first instance it would totally destroy the value of the property.— (Hear, hear, hear.) If . it were practicable to dis solve and provide for the liabilities of the Company it would certainly be the shortest way, but that it was im possible to do, and they must go on with it until they found buyers who would carry it on on their own ac count. The Congreave Works had übtained a high name and character in the trade, but if they were suddenly stopped it would destroy their value as a property to a great extent.—(Hear.), The CHAIRMAN, to prevent misconception, would read the passage in the Report It Is necessary, however, that the works should be maintained in ma them, and taken as com plete action to prevent their deterioration pending their consequentlysale, orany other that orders final arrangementfor iron irsehsopueicdt heretofore, and any portion of theSe orders remaining over should be provided for in the conditions of sale."— (Hear, hear.) Now, be thought that recommendation extremely necessary, c onsidering the la rge or d ers for iron they received, and the extensive value of their busi ness,:t manage th ese wor k s Its admitted th a t th ey were extremely valuable, but under the and it would be extremely injudicious t o th row any doubts upon the character of the works. It did n w o it t h fol a lo d w van th ta a g t e e , others might It n t circum stances in which the Company were placed—after the litigation which had lasted for so many , years, and the great expense entailed on them, it would appear as if they were not the instruments by which these works could be carried on with advantage. He hoped it would not go forth to their rivals in trade that they might have these works for nothing, or that they would be taken altogether out of the field of competition, because if they did. that they would be doing t h e greatest injury to their own property. When the iron trade was in a healthy condition he bad no doubt but the profits on these works would be very considerabl e. Mr. RICARDO reminded the Chairman that in one part of the Report it was distinctly stated that these works could be carried on with great advantage, and that the statement of profits made by the Directors appeared to be fair and reasonable. Major RICHARDSON said neither himself, nor the Shareholders who acted with him', were inclined to depre ciate the value of the works, because they had sent per sons down who had minutely examined the works, and had considered them fully worth the money that had been paid for them. Ile also approved of the manner in which it was proposed to carry on the works, as he thought it would tend to increase, or at all events to maintain, the character of the works, to continue them in operation. He would re mind the meeting that for land of the very same quality as theirs Lord Dudley asked 2,0001. per acre, and there fore theil 200 acres must be worth a very considerable sum. The CEIAIRBIAN said there was no further business before them, and the meeting then separated. -- - IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, Sept. 28. Their Lordships met at Five o'Clock. FROGMORE ESTATE BILL On the motion of the Duke of WELLINGTON, the Frogmore Estate Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Thursday. The Duke of WELLINGTON also moved the se cond readinf , of the Royal Gardens Bill, Lord BROUGHAM said that he understood that this Bill had received the sanction of the Noble Lord lately at the head of the Woods and Forests' department, than whom no person had ever better performed the duties of his office. The Bill, therefore could be well recom mended, but he could not avoid expressing his regret that applications of this nature should be so readily re sponded to by Parliament, when he had so much diffi culty to wring from them 10,0001, or 20,00 C/. for the education of the people. Lord MELBOURNE said, that all who had witnessed the miserable accommodation for the Queen's horses be fore the new stabling was erected would admit the abso lute necessity of the new erection. After a short conversation, the Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Thursday. The Earl of REDESDALE presented a petition from Wigan, against Sunday trading. ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE BILL. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL end others brought up this Bill from the House of Commons. The Bill was read a first time, and was ordered to be read a second time on Thursday next. Adjourned till Thursday. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Sept. 28. The SPEAKER took the Chair at a few minutes before Four o'clock. The Duke of Marlborough's Estate Bill was road a second time. On the motion of Mr. ESTCOURT, the following Members were added to the Select Committee on private business :—Sir R. Peel, Lord Stanley, Sir Edward Knatchbull, and Lord G. Somerset. Mr. WAKLEY presented a petition from an indivi dual in Middlesex, praying that the House would take measures for making a distinction, under the Poor-laws, between deserving and undeserving objects ; and that the Commissi3n might not be continued beyond July next. Sir J. Y. BULLER, presented a petition from East Devon and Dorsetshire, praying that the House would not consent to any alteration of the present Corn-laws. i BRIDPORT ELECTION. The SPEAKER informed the House that a petition had been received from the electors of Bridport, against the return of Mr. Bayley Cochrane for that borough. TIIIIIER DUTIES. Lord SANDON presented a petition from 9,000 inha bitants of Quebec against the alteration of the timber duties proposed by the late Government, and complain ing that they had not been allowed an opportunity of producing evidence before the Committee, on the recom mendation of which the alteration was proposed. ELECTION PETITIONS. The SPEAKER reported to the House that the re cognizances for the Election petitions from Belfast and Waterford were unobjectionable. NOTICES OF MOTION. Mr. P. M. STEWART gave notice that early next Session he should bring forward a motion respecting our commercial relations, past and present, with the island of Java. CORN-LAWS. Mr. THORNELY gave notice that early next Session his Hon. Colleague, Mr. Villiers, would move for a Com mittee of the whole House to take into consideration the Act of the 9th of George IV., regulating the importation of foreign graLn. Dr. BOWRING gave notice, on behalf of his Hon. Friend, the Member for Greenock, that he should, next Session, bring in a Bill for simplifying the convey ance of hereditable property in Scotland ; and also for leave to bring in a Bill to expedite business in the Sheriffs' Courts in Scotland, unless a 411' of that nature should be introduced_ by Ili!, ,Lord Advocate. RETURNS—POUR-LAW. Mr. ESCOTT moved for a return of the sums paid in the different parishes of England and Wales for the relief of the poor during the year previous to the passing of the Poor-law Amendment Act ; also an account of the sums expended for the relief of the Poor in the different Unions up to the year closing 1840; also a return of the number of orders given by Justices of the Peace for relief out of the House, stating what relief had been given by the Boards of Guardians in consequence.—Agreed to. LIBRARY. Sir ROBERT H. INGLIS mo . ved—" That a Stand ing Committee of sixteen Members be appointed to assist Mr. Speaker in the direction of the Li brary, to whom shall be referred all matters relating thereto:—Sir Robert Henry Inglis, Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, Sir Robert Peel, Lord John Russell, Mr. Williams Wynn, the Lord Advocate, Mr. Rutherfurd, Mr. Shaw, Lord Viscount Palmerston, Mr. Gladstone, 1)r. Stock, Mr. Acland, Col. Fox, Mr. Gaily Knight, Lord Viscount Mahon, and Mr. Pendarves.—Agreed to. WAYS AND MEANS. The Report of fhe Committee on Ways and Means was then brought up and agreed to. . ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE BILL. On the Order of the day for the third reading of the Administration of Justice (No. 2) Bill being moved, Mr. WARD said that before the House passed the Bill he was anxious to draw its attention to a case pre cisely similar to that bearing on the appointment of the Hon. Member for Horsham, which he had lately brought before the consideration of th at House. He regret , d he was absent last night, as that would have been the proper time to bring it under thenotice of the House. In 1812 an appointment similar to that made by Lord Abinger was made in favour of Mr. Brougham, brother to the then Lord Chancellor. The appointment which had been conferred upon him was that of Registrar of Affidavits, and though Lord Brougham said he would abolish it, no Bill had been brought in, as in the present case ; no overtact had been crone to give the public a right to claim the benefit of its abolition. The moment the vacancy was filled up by Mr. Brougham, the late member for Ripon, now Lord Chancel lor of Ireland called the attention of the House to the case, but then that Honourable and Learned Member had been sitting on the Opposition side of the House. The Hon. and Learned Member protested against that appointment, and paid it was an useless waste of the public money, but not a single objection had been made to the case to which he called the attention of„ the House. It was singular what a change had come over Honourable Members within eight or nine years, and that they did not see the force of the arguments which they now used in the case of Mr. Brougham. The Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth said it was impossi ble that appointment should be provisional. The Chan cellor of the Exchequer, from whom indeed it wa:, difficult to extract his opinion, yet expressed him self the other night in favour of compensation. Lord Eldon asserted in the Houie of Lords that the office filled by that Honourable Member could not be called a sinecure, which was precisely the argument of the Attorney and Solicitor-General the other night, who said it would be impossible to find a competent person to fill the office with the salary of 2,0001. a-year, unless he had a reward for his services during the term of natural life. Every argument in the one case applied exactly in the other case, and if he could move for expunging that clause, without affecting another person besides the Hon. Member for Horsham, he would do so before the Bill passed, but at all events he could not help calling the attention of the house to the singular change which had taken place in the sentiments of Hon. Members since the year 1832. The Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Dorchester—but then that Hon. Gentleman entertained different sentiments, and sat upon a different side of the House—expressed his opinion that the appointment i❑ the case of Mr. Brougham was provisional, and that the public could not be affected by the legal right which the Lord Chancellor had to till up the vacancy, which he thought he was boun3, by a moral obligation, do do. (Hear.) Lord Brougham did abolish the office in obedience to a moral obligation ; but that was not the case in the pre sent instance, and he was sorry Lord Abinger did not follow in the footsteps of the other Noble Lord (Brougham). The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought the Hon. Gentleman deserved great credit for the dili gence with which lie ransacked for the present case, but he could not give him equal credit for the analogy • which he seemed to think subsisted between the two cases. The Hon. Gentleman, he was sure, would recol lect that Lord Brougham, who was at tho time Lord Chancellor, had given notice, in the House of Lords, of his intention to abolish the office to which the Honourable Gentleman referred that he (Lord Brougham) mooted a measure of abolition himself. There was therefore no parity in the two cases, for in the one case a person was appointed by another, at a time when he gave notice that he would himself abolish the office which he considered to be a sinecure. Lord Abinger was no party to the arrangement which was in contemplation, and, therefore, in making the ap pointment he was not violating his sense of duty to the public. It was admitted on all hands that the office of Master of the Court of Exchequer was one which could not be left vacant ; it was absolutely necessary that it should be filled up if the business of the Court was to proceed. The Honourable Gentleman was good enough to say that he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) was not very distinct in stating his opinions. lie thought the Hon. Gentleman must have known that when a Gen tleman gave his vote in that House, there was a clear index of his opinioins. if the Hon. Gentleman at any time misunderstood his expressions, he begged to refer him to his recorded vote.—(Hear.) When this Bill was before the House on a former occasion, he took the liberty of suggesting the necessity of making some regu lation with respect to the office of Accountant-Ge neral of, the Court of Chancery, stating that, whilst com pensation was awarded to the officers of the Court of Exchequer, no provision was made for preventing a cor responding increase in the emoluments of the office of the. Court of Chancery. He had been informed that an opportunity would be afforded to him in the course of the present Session of effecting that object, and for the present, therefore, he would not propose any alteration in the Bill. Mr. EWART said the Right Ron.. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer had attempted to draw a distinction between the case of Lord Brougham and that of Lord Abinger. With respect to the former Noble Lord, Lord Eldon, a very high authority on such a sub ject, said that the office, so far from being a sinecure, was one of g reat trust., and requiring much attention. Had the Right Hon. Gentleman heard the case of the Welsh judicature ? In that case the Judges interested, although they did not introduce the Bills, were bound not to fill up the vacancies. He thought the Right Hon. Gentle.• man's argument entirely fell to the ground. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER begged to offer a few words in explanation. With the case of the Welsh Judge he was perfectly well acquainted, for his brother had filled the office at that time. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) being in office at the time knew perfectly well that the situation would be abolished. Under those circumstances his brother had no title to compensation. In the same manner Lord Brougham had appointed his relative to a particular office, knowing that it was intended to introduce a Bill to abolish it. If an individual Member of the Govern ment had brought forward a Bill the case would be widely different. Mr. PEMBERTON said it was impossible that the office under consideration could be accepted without the person who accepted it abandoning his prospects at the bar. Neither the Welsh Judge, nor Mr. Brougham, left the bar in order to accept office. He contended, therefore, that there was no analogy between the cases. Be would take that opportunity of calling the attention of the Government to the necessity of making still fur ther alterations in the Court of Chancery. Whatever were the merits of this measure it wai by no means a remedy for all the evils which existed. He trusted that the Government would be prepared next Session to in troduce a measure which would afford complete satisfac tion to suitors. Mr. F. T. BARING said that the Right Hon. Gen tleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer had, in the second part of his speech, put the case on the right footing. The brother of that Right Hon. Gentleman had adopted the course which every one who knew him would have expected. When he was appointed no bargain was made that he was to receive any compensation. If his recollection served him with respect to Mr. Scarlett, the second read ing of the Bill had passed the House of Lords before the appointment took place ; indeed he thought the Bill had been read a third time, and passed that House.—(Hear.) He expressed a strong opinion at the time upon the subject, and nothing had passed since which bad in duced him to change that opinion., He thought the present one of the strongest cases of compensation im properly granted that he had ever heard of.—(Hear.) Sir J. GRAHAM thought the analogy which had been referred to between the two cases, entirely failed. In the case of Lord Brougham, he was Chancellor at the head of the law, and an officer removable at the pleasure of the Crown, and at tho time of tho appointment the in tention of abolishing that particular office had been an nounced. Ire nominated his brother to that office, and the whole authority of the Government was pledged to the passing of that measure. The question was, whether his brother under the circumstances was entitled to compensation ? Now, it was urged that the case of Mr. Scarlett was parallel to that, but he utterly denied it. Lord Abinger was not a party to the introduction of the measure. Oa the contrary, he and Sir Edward Sugden objected to the abolition of the appellate jurisdiction, and then it resolved itself into the question of the probability of the measure pa,ssing. Now, in the case of Mr. ° Brougham, Lord Btougham was not only a consenting party, but the very author of the measure ; while, in the case of the Hon. Mr. Scarlett, Lord Abinger not only did not originate the measure, but had objected to it. There was assent in the one case, dissent in the other. It appeared to him that there would he the greatest injustice in re fusing compensation in the case of Mr. Scarlett. Mr. C. BULLER had seen some observations made with regard to the vote he had given in supporting the motion for compensation to Mr. Scarlett ; but he had seen no reason to re gret that vote. He thought Mr. Scarlett was justly entitled to compensation. The principle on which they should act in all cases like the present was, that it was a matter oflegal policy as well as justice that the House should take the most liberal view with regard to those whose vested interests were affected by the proposed changes. While he was on his legs he would beg to make one ob servation with regard to the Copying Clerks of the Court of Exchequer. Justice demanded that when compensa tion was being awarded to more important persons, the interests of poorer persons ought not to be over looked. The case to which he referred was that of the Copying Clerks of the Exchequer. Those individuals had been employed as copyists in that Court some of them for so long a period as thirty years, and that em ployment furnished their sole means of livelihood. Their income in those situations amounted to but 1001. or 1201. a year, and that for the performance of duties of a very laborious nature. The Court of Exchequer was now about to be abolished, and the claims of those individuals were not for compensation, but simply that Government would consider them as having a prior claim for employment under the new system. Nothing would be more equitable or fair than such a claim. They ought to show the public that, whilst they attended to their interests, they were not unmindful of the vested interests of individuals, and that those persons who had hitherto obtained a livelihood in that Court should not on its abolition be exposed to absolute destitution. _ _ _ . Mr. HAWES had received some communications on the subject before the House, or he would not trouble Hon. Members with any remarks upon it. Those clerks represented to him (Mr. Hawes) that they had been serving in the Court of Exchequer for twenty or thirty years, and that their occupation would be swept away by the change. Why not, he would ask, give compensation to those poor individuals as well as to Mr. Scarlett. He saw no one in that House come forward in behalf of those persons, but in behalf of an individual who was the son of a Peer there were many to come for ward and advocate the justice of compensation. Sir J. GRAHAM agreed with the Hon. Member for Liskeard that the House onght in all cases of the aboli tion of offices to extend a liberal consideration to those who had claims for compensation. Mr. HAWES—To poor as well as to rich. Sir J. GRAHAM—To rich and poor alike. Such was the doctrine of the Hon. Member for Liskeard, but such was not the doctrine of the Hon. Member for Lam beth, for while that Hon. Gentleman would refuse the claim to compensation of Mr. Scarlett, who had a regular appointment, he would uphold the right of those gen tlemen who had no regular appointment. He had no wish to underrate their claims, such as they were, but it was rather singular that they should never have heard of their claims until the third reading of the Bill in the present Session. It was certainly remarkable that during the last Session neither of those Hon. Gentlemen had mentioned the case to the late Government ; that Go vernment would certainly have leant a ready ear to any recommendation of those Hon. Gentlemen, and if they had drawn the attention of the Government to the subject those claims would most probably have been investigated and found untenable. It appeared that these gentlemen had been employed as copiers in the Six Clerks' Office of the Exchequer. Now, although the Equity Exchequer was a Court to be abolished, yet two new Courts were to be substituted for it, to give a greater facility for the transaction of Equity business. He could not, therefore, doubt that if those gentlemen had established their cha racter as efficient copyists, there would be a demand for their services in the new courts. He would not, how ever, give any pledge on the subject, because he thought it cruel to raise hopes which might end in disappoint ment. At the same time, he entertained a reasonable expectation that the services of these gentlemen would not be rejected. Mr. HAWES explained. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the rule in law was that compensation was limited to those persons who had a legal and vested right in their offices. Those gen tlemen had not, while Master Scarlett was duly ap pointed by the Lord Chief Baron, and had as good a freehold right in his office as any gentleman in that House had in his property. Sir C. NAPIER had noticed that the House was al ways most liberal in dealing with any case where any gentleman of ,the law was concerned.—(Hear, hear.) It was not long since they voted 3,5001. as the retiring pension for a Vice-Chancellor. Now, the 5001. would be about the retiring pension which would be given to a Vice-Admiral, aft er thirty years' service. —(Hear, hear.) He would men tion a few of the pensions given to officers on the aboli • tion of the Navy Board some ten years ago, and the Right Hon. Baronet opposite deserved much praise for its aboli tion. There was Sir F. Seymour, a very old officer, who had lost an arm ; he had a patent place, which, being abolished, he was compensated by being sent out to India, where he died.—(Laughter.) An other officer, who held a patent place, which was abolished, was compensated by a transportation of of three years to South America ; and Le hia l(a r ii . t ) aea H r. Gordon, under the same circumstances, was compensated by five years employjpuas justly n after, at;.t—e re hil d utea th rt' a h that.—(Hear.) Govern ment w l ia e stohav w e is h el i y a h a a n l d f might also mention the case o f Captain Hornly ; he en joyed a patent place of 1,0001 . a year, it wa s abolished, and he was compensated by five years' employment at Woolwich. He only mentioned these things to show the difference in the way of dealing with gentlemen of the long robe, and those of the short jacket.—(Cheers.) Mr. C. WOOD could not understand the law laid down by the Attorney-General, with respect to the case of Mr. Scarlett. When Lord Brougham appointed his brother to the office that had been referred to, the greatest opposition was given to it by gentlemen on the other side of the House. The Attorney-General's doc trine was that persons who had a legal title to a place, and being in possession of that place, were entitled to compensation. Now he wanted to know how Mr. Scar lett was entitled to compensation, and Mr. Brougham was not ? The Bill was then read a third time and passed. POPULATION PAYMENTS BILL. Sir J. GRAHAM moved the further consideration of the Report on the Population Payments Bill. Mr. OTWAY CAVE wished to know whether the attention of the Right Hon. Baronet had been called to ase of the c the statement of a Magistrate, in one of the Metropolitan Districts, with respect to the Irish, when the Irishman had been brought before him ? Sir J. GRAHAM had seen the st atements adverted had called upon the by the Hon. Member, and statements tedt Magis trate to explain them, as he thou g ht such w ith the due ad ministration of justice. — were calculated to interfere__ hear, hear.) The worthy Magistrate did o(1.11 ff e a a n explanation, stating answer on the whole was sattsa ctory and he had n o that the report was in many essentials incorrect. The repeated. doubt that if an ungu arded expression did fall from th e worthy Magistrate it wou ld not be again The Bill was then further considered in Committee, and the report was ordered to be received to-morrow. Mr. GREENE brought up the Report of the Expiring Laws Bill.—Ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. POOR-LAWS. Sir J. GAHAM moved the Order of the Day for going into Committee on the Poor-law Commission Con tinuance Bill. Mr. S. CRAWFORD rose to move the following reso lution of which he had given notice—" That it be an instruction to the Committee on the Poor-law Com mission Bill, to insert clauses to the following effect : " 1. That it shall not be lawful for the Commissioners, from the date of the passing of this Bill, to declare the formation of any new Unions in districts which are not already placed under the operation of the Act 4 and 5 William IV., c. 76. " 0. That it shall not be lawful for the Commissioners to disallow, by any general or oth er or d er, any pay ments which shall be made by the authority of a Board . of Guardians for the relief of any poor persons or their families out of the workhouse, notwithstanding any powers given to them (by the said recited Act of 4th and sth Will. IV.) to the contrary." If he !ailed in his advocacy of a question of such great impertance, it was not his fault; but that of the constitu ency which had sent him to that House, and who were worthy of a better advocate. He was aware of the impor tance of avoiding all party recrimination, and should only call upon lion. Members to consider whether the opera tion of the Bill should not be in some degree suspended during the continuance of the present great distress. The Right Hon. Baronet and his Government had asked for time to consider the provisions of a proper Poor-law BilL By the Poor-law Bill the Commissioners were entrusted with, he might say, absolute powers over the Board of Guardians, except in ono instances► that of not interfering with the relief to be, given to individuals. The 13th section of the Act gave them an absolute power in giving orders, and the .52d gave them the power to order out-door relief. He begged leave to refer to that section. The Hon. Gentleman then read the sectionlwhich gave the Commis sioners power to administer relief out of the workhouse, to whatever extent they might think fit, either by re payment of money or giving provisions, or both, and to what persons, at what time, on what con ditions, and in what manner such out-door re lief ought to be given. Such were the words of the Act, and he mai: tained that out-door relief was to be given, and was conveyed by those words. But the order of the Commissioners was not consistent with that Act. Their order was, that every able-bodied person, male or female, requiring relief should be relieved in the workhouse, together with the families of such persons, and also the wives of such persons as were married men. He maintained that heves the .duty of the House to limit that power which, during the present distresses of the country, might be exercised with such grievous oppression to the poor. The principle upon which the order was issued was, that poverty arose from profligacy.—(Hear, hear.) He contended that in the present circumstances of the country there were a great many of the industrious and honest portion of the community who were distressed from other causes than profligacy; and he hoped, therefore, that Parliament would interpose to prevent a violent exercise of power. On the assumption that po verty arose from profligacy, the workhouse had been surrounded with terrors. First, there was the separa tion of families ; 2dly, arbitrary punishment and disci pline; 3dly, harshness to old age; 4thly, bad living ; sthly, the difficulties of getting admission into the workhouse ; and sixthly, and greatest of all, the mixture of the virtuous and profligate. Such terrors must prevent tho honest and industrious members of the community from applying for relief. As he did not wish to rest his claim to the consideration of the House simply on his own authority, he would refer the House to some statements which had been obtained from different union, in which all these hardships were displayed. First, with respect to the separation of families. He was willing to admit that if great bodies of the people.. were to be collected under one roof, it might be eery difficult in all cases to avoid the separation of families. But the kind of separation which was most oppressive was the separation of the mother and the child. In some cases that principle had been extended even to the mother and. the sucking child. The first case which he would refer to was one which had occurred at Bath ; and it was stated in a letter from the Chaplain of that Union. The Hon. Member then read an extract from a letter pub lished in the Times of September 14, stating that whilst a woman had gone into the yard of the workhouse, the parties went into the ward, snatched up her baby, and carried it away. In the Uxbridge Union two old men, one of them labouring under sciatica, were splashed with buckets of water, and washed with mops, until their lives were endangered. Thus, by carrying into effect the orders of the Commissioners, disease the most dread ful prevailed in that Union. Notwithstanding the pre valence of disease, then, the orders of the Commission ers prohibiting out-door relief were carried into effect, and new inmates were admitted into the diseased Union. • Under such circumstances, was it not ri g ht t h at t h e at tention of the House should be called to the necessityof restraining in some degree th e p ower o f t h e Commis sioner.? e would next refer to instances of the diffi culty of getting into workhouses. Hannah Robins o n was affected with paralysis ; her husband applie,d t o 'have her admitted into the workhouse of St. George's, Hanover-square. The answer given the husband was. " No, you must also yourself come into the workhouse." The man was able to work, and refused to enter. The woman was, in consequence, left alone in the absence, of her husband, and she was burnt to death. At tLe in quest held on the occasion, the jury said that they could not separate without expressing, in the strotgest manner, their sense of the oppression of the poor in that c ase . There was another subject to which he wished to refer ; the mixture of the vicious with the virtuous. An instance of that was mentioned in a letter of the Rev. Mr. Watts, dated 20th August, 1840, formerly Chap lain of the Bath Union. Two improper fi males were admitted, according the Reverend Gentleman, into the union workhouse among a consider able ilumber of virtuous and proper females. The cases of repugnance of paupers to enter the workhouses were numerous. There was one, a remarkable one, that of William Leech, who had occasionally received outdoor relief at the Kensington Union. On being pressed to enter the workhouse he refused to do so. Soon afterwards his death took place, and on the in quest the Jury returned a verdict of " Died of want." Another instance was that of Elizabeth East, who died. of a slow process of starvation. On being urged to en ter the workhouse, she refused while she could get food by selling Congreve matches. The poor creature died, and a verdict of " Died by starvation ' was returned by the Jury. Such was the case which he had to lay be fore the House, as the result of this system of terror.. Respectable people had rather submit to the extreme degree of starvation than enter a workhouse ; those not so respectable committed crime for the purpose .of being committed to prison ; and suicide and fever from want of food were the necessary consequences of the law. The most glorious trait in the character of Englishmen had been broken down. How could they expect Englishmen would retain their spirit if they were forced to submit to such laws ? Outrages and disturbances had taken place, and they had consequently been obliged to make a law for a rural police, which was a degradation to Englishmen. It was a diegrace that the peace of England could not be kept as it had been in the days of Alfred, and that they were obliged to have recourse to the miserable measure of a hired police for that purpose. It was not denied that great distress ex isted, and therefore, as the Qovernment asked time to consider a new law, they oute:at to take care that no cases of oppression took place under the old laws. They asked time to consider the Corn-law, which he was disposed to grant them, bet that was another reason why the dis tress of the poor should be looked to, and that while they refused to reduce the price of food they should take means to prevent the people from suffering from the high. prices. The Commi ss i oners i n their last Report, stated their satisfaction that the prohibitory order had been extended, so that there was no chance of their allowing the guardians to act with more liberality in the ensuing winter, unless it was caused by the prompt in terference of that House. He had a few words to say respecting Ireland. A few nights 'ago, he had heard the First Lord of the Treasury express his satisfaction at the working of Government should form a faithful opinion the Bill in that country. It was right her Majesty's to that country. It was impossible yet to state whether or not that Bill would be efficacious for the relief thebe Poor. However, he was of opinion it never could carried into effect according to its present provisions — they were still worse —still more stringent thane:tit:. English Bill—it gave no power either to C T -door sioners, to Guardians, or other officers, to with respect t h e: relief under aty circumstances.. . A person ignii‘gl,t°lhu.ivet miles from the union-house •he g might die if he could not be ta m ke l ii ht be there' for the stood as it did now, it never could be beneficial then quoted relief of the poor. The Hon. Gentleman_ e.etorth Dublin several cases of maltreatment in the North union, he Union, and also in the Cork Union, In tea, but that While it 'rave their morals. attempts had been made to de hen for bringing Ile hoped the House would pardon stated, that not only were children ill -trey --(Hear, fear)—but it by facts than by declama was better to make out a caseld IL call on Hon. Gentle these distressing cases before it tione—(llear, hear.) He wou ld principle, but he would men fur any abandonment and not allow the power of of the people of the c ountr e e x ', tension which it had, but the Ceminissioners thehumanity to the suffering poor. would restrain it, fromlade out a case which would ensure, ask them to look at the facts he adduced' of the condition He trusted lie the support of lion. , 11" Gentlemen who had heretofore - e e. He did not think that it was Con_ the House that sultine the resist of .otembers u.. they should should confine themselves the test of a vote. 'll mo de o f . acting in that House, That 'las his respectability to mere talk, b at Fete the bring silted i t; e q lu'eosotri questions . h. Id it was his firm determination nevets to in trude in bringingquestion any before the House ' unless, he e e teided to take the sense of the House upon it. He thanked the house for the indulgence extended to him,. and would conclude by moving the first instruction of o p p ro ii p itO r n; al which he had given notice, presuming that it would be more convenient to the House to take the instructions it it come ss• a separately. s uonneenc-ehsesnadryedfo tor them.m meet Mr. FERHAND second e d t h e instruction. He could that t i c e i t excite bers ment,fo r t as o s r u a r i e se H a o n n y . a them. The Hon. M em b er had said ) that there was no excitement in the borough of Halifax, but was he aware that tik hen the New Poor-law workhouse was building, it was obliged to be guarded day and night, and that a troop of cavalry were stationed in the town ? Was he aware that the cavalry trampled people of Bradford the when they met to consider the operation of that law?' Was lie aware th a t t h e Comm issioers and Magistrates: of the Keightly Poor -law Union were obliged to fly away to save their lives? He recollected that when 'the Whig Lord Milton was brought out to represent the West Riding of Yorkshire, a requisition was addressed to him, at the head of which was the name of the Hon. Member for Halifax. H ehad even heard that the Hon. Member for 1141; fax H. Pi assisted him to draw up his- THE SUN. LONDON. WEDNESDAY. SEPTEMBER 29,18-41.' EV.ENIN'G SIJ NI