The Sun. — London, England, 1819-02-02 00:00:00

PARLIA MENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, FEBRUARY 1. The [louse met at ten o'clock in the morning, and proceeded in Appeals. Pie Oaths were administered to the Earl of Strath , ,,ore, Lord Viscount Hereford, and Lord . Lynedoch. On the Nlotion of the Earl of LAUDERDALE, En Account was ordered of the Expence of Prosecti ti.ns, since 1798, for connterteiting the Coin,. and the Number of Prosecutim).• 11 INK. OF ENGI, ‘ND-CIIIIRENCY. The INl , r(pliq of LANsnowNs wished to know from tl) , Noble Earl opposite the nature of the motion wide') be had given notice of his inten tion to make tu-morrow ? The Eatl of LlV,Enroiu. said, he intended to move for R Secret Co;ninit rre to inquire into the State of the Pvink of England, wiih a view to the question of the resumption of Cash raynients at the period prescribed by law, and with reL;ard to other matters connected with the subject. His object in the general words at the end of the.mo tion waA, to let in the consideration of all the questions connected with the subject. CESSION OF CERTAIN DUTCH COLONIES. The Order for summoning their Lordships be• iog read, Ihe Marquis of LANSDOWNE rose to bring for ward his noticed motion on this subject. What he meant to require, he observed, were Copies of Instructions forwarded to the British Governors in India, relative to the Cession of certain Duch Colonies in that 'quarter ; hut wore especially to Sir Thomas Raffles, Lieutenant-Governor of Fort :Marlborough. What he had to direct the atten- , Lion of their Lordships to in this discussion, re ferred not only to questions of great national po licy, but to considerations of great importance, as affecting the honour and character of the British Government. He particularly referred to certain eircoinstances connected with the Cession of the Island of Java. In 1811, an expedition had been sent by the Earl of Miuto, then at the head of the Government in India, with a view to the capture of the important Dutch Settlement of Java. This operation was eminently successful, as it shortly proved that the capture was. of still greater im porance than it was at first held to be. In the course of a few years, its prosperity increased in a greater degree than perhaps any other colony in tire same interval. Its Government had been en trusted to Sir T. Raffles. The population and pros perity of the interior was soon found to be much greater than had been expected. The former amounted to bet ween 4 and 5 millions of inhabitants, some of whom were long under the dominion of independent Princes, with whom beneficial con nexioos were formed ; yet, when the island was surrendered to lie Dutch at the general peace, no stipulation had been made for the execution of those treaties which we had formed with these ind pendent powers—treaties, to which he mils: coosid••r the faith and honour of the British Go vernment as pledged. He particularly referred to the island of Banco, which was made over by treaty to the British by its ancient Sovereign, the of Palangam. Under that treaty we ob tained possession of it, and the acqnisition•prov ed to be of considerable importance; yet, not very long after, all these possessions were sur rendered to the Dutch Those they held in 1803 were expressly stipulated for restoration by treaty; but the island of Banca•did not come tinder that description, and, in his view of it, the surrender' had been made in wanton disregard of the treaty by which it came into our possession. It was surrendered by a separate article for the Dutch settlement of Cochin, and on the understood pre text of its having been a mere military occoira tion. The remonstrances, winch were made . on the ground of its having been transferred tons by a Native Sovereign, were disregarded, and the ex press letter of the subsequent treaty was referred to as hilly warranting the cession ; and those re monstrances were afterwards even made a pretext by the Dutch for ad ticking t he Sultaun of Palangam. The attempts made by Sir Thomas Raffles for procuring that Sovereign those benefits to which he was , nettled by treaty were ineffectual. Thus the honour of his country was compromised, in dependently of toe obvious impolicy of the ces sion. Such considerations must have an injurious effect upon the Bri; ish character, in the event of similar situations occurring, and the case furnish ed, in his mind, an adequate ground for Parlia mentary investigation as to the real merits of the case. He therefore felt it his duty thus to come forward, and to call for a communication of the instructions forwarded to the Governors of Java, and other East Indian colonies ceded by the Ditch ; and also for the instructions sent to Sir Thomas Raffles, on the occasion to which he particularly referred. The Noble Marquis having moved to this ef fect---and on the question being put, Earl BATITURsT Observed, that if the Instruc tions alluded to by the Noble Marquis were those for the purpOse of carrying into execution the Treaties agreed upon between the two Powers, he saw no objection to their tieing communicated ; but the nature and effect of these Treaties should be attentively considered. There were more Trea ties than one : some provided for the restitution of whatever Colonies were taken from the Dutch; another, for the Cession of the Island of Banca ; and the Governor-General of India transmitted instructions to those acting under hiro for carry ing such Treaties into effect. But if it were meant, that such communications as had taken place between the Governor-General and the Lieutenant-Governor of Fort Marlborough (as we understood the Noble Secretary of State) and sent to this country, should be laid before the House, he should feel it his duty to object to the production. The whole of these papers contain ed a great variety of matter, and points in discus which were so circumstanced, as he was sure the Noble Martinis himself would think they were not tit to lay before the House. It could Dot he conceived to have been the duty of the British Government to give obstructions to the execution of solemn and deliberate treaties. If these were altered in India, the Dotch Government here would not deem itself ohliged to' accede to such alterations. Our vernors liar no right to insist upon such altera tion. The British Goveinment had never de clared an intention to retain Java at the end of the war. The surrender of Banca, upon which the Noble Marquis laid so much stress, was in fact a complete exchange : we got for it the va -lUable settleMent of Cochin. It was undertakewl that all places taken from them should be-restor?' ed ; and it was made an express condition after wards, that lianea should be given to them for Cochin, in full sovereignty. The Dutch Govern went bad an establishment in that island ; they had made a re g ular settlement there ; and an ex pedition had been sent to take possession of it by the Governor of Java. The Sultana gam had given up his right, whatever it was, to it, anti in return he was acki , oaledged an independ ent Sovereign. The question was, whether, in fact, the Dutch Covet ument had a right to all those establishments which they held in 1803 ; and the argument, that we had no right to look to it, was a subject in discussion between the two Go vernments. With respect to Sir Thomas Raffles, be was Lieuteaant-Govet nor of Java. '[here were charges brought against him, but of these he had been fully and honourably acquitted. He was sent back to Bencoolen ; but, though he was re cognized as a Lieutenant-Governor, yet, as lie went as a Resident, he was considered by some, or felt himself, a degraded character, and in con sequence was appointed Lieut.-Governor of ano ther place ; but lie was given to understand that his powers were not thereby increased, and that he was to be considered as a Commercial Resi dent. Doubts were entertained as to his power to give an officil character to some of the points adverted to. Under all these cirrumstances he thought it better not to adopt the motion, at least in its present shape. Lord HoLLatao contended that the objections advanced by the Noble Earl did not do away those important grounds upon which his Noble Friend's motion rested. The transactions respect ing Java and its dependencies, were of a nature that required the serious consideration of Parlia ment ; and be thought the Noble Earl must have taken an erroneous view of his Noble Friend's ar guments, to come to the conelosiOns he had form ed. For his part, he deprecated the impolicy of abandoning those Princes with whom we formed Treaties. The national hooour and character were involved in the question ; and it may be matter of serious consideration, whether certain secret articles tl:d not exist in the Treaties. The whole formed a case proper for the attention of PAdiament, and the Noble Earl himself stated, that 'some negociations were still going on be tween us and the power in question. He trusted that points which affected so deeply the interests of the country, and the honour of the nation, would not he trifled with. In these views of the question, unless his Noble Friend agreed to alter or amend his motion, he would vote for it as now before the House. Earl BATHURST spoke shortly in explanation. lie adverted to the mode in which Bianca came into the possession of t he British, and to the return which had been made for it ; and seemed to ad mit, that in some points of view, the case was one which had called for inquiry. Lord HOLLAND ricplained, that he understood the Island at Banca was given to us by the Saltaun of Palattgant, in return for our acknowledging him an independent Sovereign. The Earl of LIVERPooc was of opinion that one of, the principal papers called for was not, pro perly speaking, an official document, but one which the party had no right or authority to make. Neiiher could it be laid before the- House as such. The points still in discussion were not such as had been absolutely decided upon between this country and the King of the Netherlands, but upon points which may be regarded as -condi tional, and his Noble Friend's meaning, in what he stated, went no farther. He must deprecate the exposition of any documents which went to affect such a state of things. The sovereignty of territories was not, conferred by their actual owl— paiion by a conquering Power; unless they were actually ceded by the conquered Power at the -conclusion of a peace, their possession in the in terval must be regarded as a temporary possession, Or as a military occupation. Under these consi derations, different conclusions were sometimes drawn by those concerned. The Marquis of LANSDOWNB spoke at some length in explanation, and seemed to say, though his views of the real merits of the case were very little, if at all, changed by what the Noble Earls had advanced, yet as it appeared to be admitted that some negociatious were still going . on be tween the two Goveinments concerned; and as he still conceived some benefit may result from his thus coming forward, he was inclined to shspe or new model his motion, so as to ddaway those objections by which'the Noble Earls appeared to be most strongly actuated., The motion was then, in the course of a few words interchanged across the table, so altered by the Noble Marquis, in 'a way which principally seemed to respect what had seen called for rela tive to ceding the Island of Banca, and (as we could collect) the omission of Sir Thomas Raffles's protest. The question being put, the modified motion was agreed to by their Lordships.—Ad journed till to-morrow. HOUSE OF COMMONS. About thirty Members took the oaths and their seats. BURGH OF ABERDEEN. • Lord ARCHIBALD HAMILTON postponed his Motion for the Production of Papers respecting the Burgh of Aber deen, (tom . to-morrow (this day) week, .to.to-morrow fort night, dt the request of the Lord Advocate of Scotland. HIS MAJESTY'S PERSON. A Message from the Lords acquainted the House, that a Bill, for the Care of his Majesty's Person had been passed by their Lordships, BANK OF ENGLAND. Mr. Hutchinson, from the Bank of England, produced va rious accounts respecting the weekly amount of Batik of Eng land Notes and Bank Post Bills in circulation. Mr. GRENFELL observed, as the contents of thesepapers were extremely important with respect to the discussion which was to conic on to-morrow, bethought it might he desirable that they should not be printed for a day or two, because if they should be sent to the printers to-night they could nut be received again till after to-morrow. • - The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEW; ER, agreed as to the propriety of postponing the printing till after to-morrow, A llNmssa (whore name we did nut hear) moved fur an Ac count to be laid before the House of the Import and Export of Tin carried coast and otherwass.—Ordered. RECOVERY OF SMALL DEBTS. The Sm.:RIFFS of LoNnoN and MIDDLEn presented a Pe tition from the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Common Conra it of the City of London, praying for an Amendment of the Law as it now stood respectitig the Recovery of Small Debts. The Petition was read, and leave given to bring in a Bill. NEW PRISON, LONDON. The same Sheriffs again appeared at the Bar of the House, and - pr e s e nted a P e titi on 'from the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Corporation of the City of London, praying Mr leave to appropriate a certain portion of the Unclaimed Dividends of the Orpliaii Fund, towards the liquidation of the expences attending the New Prism!. Mr. Alderman WArrnmAN observed, that it might he of considerable importance that the Mem bers for Southwark should become acquainted with the entire nature and bearings of this Bill ; and he therefore brgged leave to move—"'That the Petition he laid on the table." Mr. HoLme SUMNEU, recollecting a motion which he had the honour of making last Session of Parliament, for an account of the City of Lon don Revenue, could not help expressing his sur prise that this Corporation should now come to Parliament for pecuniary aid, before it.complied with the orders of the House for the account al. hided to It would have been much more con sistent with propriety, to have first satisfied the House on the,extent and application of the funds now possessed by the City of London, than to have made this precipitate demand in aid of their circumstances. It was well known, that the City of London had acted with uncommon shyness ; indeed they had treated the Orders of the House with unaccountable, perhaps culpable silence. After a lapse of two months, no answer had been given ; and then such an answer had been re ceived as was by no means satisfactory. The House ought, therefore, now to be completely of opinion, that the required aid should not be granted till it received a full explanation of the extent and application of the present Funds of the City of London. Mr. Alderman WAITHMAN observed, that as he was not a Member of the last Parliament, he hoped the Hon. Member would not attribute to him any of the omissions or inattenti:ins of Which he now complained. The Hon. Alderman did not wish to go into a discussion of the subject at the present moment. He had not taken any part in the affair, either at the time allUded to, or at that now under the consideration of the House. But he was fully warranted in saying, that the City of London had been ; and were now, ready to sa tisfy the House regarding their Funds. He now took the opportunity of remarking, that as the City of London not only supported their own pri sons, but often also the prisons of the County of Middlesex, they were therefore very fairly and fully entitled to apply to Parliament for pecuniary aid on such an emergency. Mr. Serjeant ONSLOW said, that the statements which were ordered by the House ought to have been long since presented. If the Corporation of the City of London had merely called for a local Act, perhaps his objections to its being granted might not have been so strong. But when the members of that body called for an Act that af fected the interests of many Counties, merely be cause they supported more prisoners than they were bound to do, lie should certainly give it his decisive negative. If the Corporation supported more prisons than they were strictly bound to do, there were, he doubted not, corresponding advantages which resulted from the exercise of so much generosity.—He would oppose the prayer of the Petition, until a satisfactory account of its funds were laid before the House. The Petition was then o rdered to lie on the table. MOC K AUCTIONS. The SHERIFFS appeared again at the Bar of the Common Council, of for some law to sup the City of London , p ra y ing Muse, and presented an other Petition from the Lord Mayor, Aldermen , and public nuisance, as well as to such an intolerable MockAucttons, now arrived press or prohibit all public n grounds Mr. "itiand delinquency. Alderman \VAITHMAN thought this petition contained of the first public importance. He wasaware, aware, that from its peen liar nature it oug ht, as a p reliminar y ste p , to is of complaint re ceive the concurrence of his Majesty's Minister i s. If it were thought by them a matter of such gene ral utility as he had described, he was not afraid of their consent. He would, therefore, for the present, here propose, that the Petition should lie on the table ; and on a future day he would more fur the appointment of a Committee of In quiry. Ordered that the Petition do lie on the table. BILL FOR THE RELIEF OF INSOLVENT DEBTORS. The SHERIFFS once more appeared at the Bar, and pretenced a Petition from the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Common Council, of the City of London, praying that the Act now ::bout to ex pire for the relief of Insolvent Debtors should be repealed, or not received as a law of the land. Mr. Alderman ITAITHMAN felt that the result of the present Petition would not be of less im portance than any which had perhaps ever appear ed in that House. It was not less pregnant with public interest than that some days ago presented respecting our criminal laws. Some who were inclined to favour and support the present •Act of which the Petition complained, might charge the Petitioners with a want of feeling ; but he could easily convince those who did him the honour of attending to him, that the citizens of London were not wanting in principles of humanity to ob jects of real misfortune. Without entering into airy argument, or engrossing unnecessarily the time of the House, he took the liberty of affirm ing, that no Act ever passed had been so detri mental to the trade and commerce of this country. It not only afforded an easy indemnity to the dis honest part of the community, but held out an encouragement to vice and profligacy of every description. In addition to these grievances, the Bill in its present form had totally overturned that pride and bulwark of our Constitution, the Trial by Jury. li, in fact, invested in the Judge of the Insolvent Court more power than had ever been conferred on any individual for,centuriCs past. He possessed a muck greater authority with re gard to property between debtor and creditor, than was in the exercise or discretion of the Lord tearful r Chanc ellor el.i ti at or and the twelve Judges. ile tr l: Gentlemen not connected witb might view the obnoxious Act with indiffere'-css out he had such documents in his posses' i°ll 'sst would not only sur p r i se th e H o use at log e „.,' o o‘ the most careless observer. It ‘V #S not his ftbe tion to ; go into a m i nute d e t a il on ibis stag e c ,: nt les business ; but he b egge d to i m press uponA'er°ssc men's minds, that in March, 1815, an r'!" t sst, had been presented to the House, stati° 6 ' n t out of eight millions sterling; as t he an'T l- 1, of the dischar g es.of I nso l vent D e btors, tile tb° the dividends had not exceeded one f a rthing ('l " bsd pound. The number a t persons thus relieve oft At equalled 9000 ; and if he stated what be to haVe done, that their debts far exc eeded millions, there was co n sequently to the w el d ",rwel d", about one fourth of a farthing in the Were he permitted to venture an (Ow — i too s r i might safely assert, that the number of P e i c fso thus relieved, would, at this time, a mount I° ' o tr exceed, 14,000, including their discharge for au ° ,. if not above, 15,000,000/. sterling of nraP e r . ool There was a tax of fifteen millions ext °rre‘ s s . the pockets of industrio u s individuals, Waite whom had become the dopes and victims t heif, iterate adventurers. Pe rsons who supn ofte s stf , families by the exercise o f their lau dable Ill s honest means in trad e would feel the force so observations. Th e Bill now mentioned w i t es outrage of the principles of morality , 5° regarded a fair understanding between to'' s to man. It had been particularly itsjmiins°", trade in the City of London ; and in coin" stances had demoralized those who " (I o eit highly esteemed for. their fair dealing sod °" f i pe meaning. Besides the evil consequences °,,ser, Bill now alluded to, it had operated in ( 0 , ot instances equally to the ruin of clisracter b e ° 1,10 , debtor and creditor. He appealed to th io at nourable Gentleman now in his eve (Mr' S : e „ i pory Onslow, we understood), who, from OS ' l ' . c ' e lle s ant avocations, had often witnessed such solo? as those now described. When serious l Y,ll cr . Bering this important subject, he - might tv d . ,rie" claim—Are there no points, no hc'u n to sof' where we should ma k e a stand ? Are w e , fer with culpable negligence, or criminal 'li d ,oe ence s such a large sacrifice of proper t y 6tiest rtt rals ? Could the House be persuaded, t: if to , Act, affording so extended a field for doplicilci: fraud, and for almost every s p ec ies of vice, 10401. be considered as consistent with t he b l; common honesty, Or that such an Act sh a-- 1 .9-' countenanced by the House ?—(Hea r ' be° ut° i " If any person were possessed of 500 1 . l' er 611 1 1 d b e or -of the sum of ten thousand pounds , e ° , t o ssi be deemed an honest man if lie squawk:re." t the whole of such property, often too , ° ` ) e ,l7 o ' consequence of misfortune, or of itnprodencwilio Act, joo the result of the operation the presented to the unprincipled the ternfi t , a !, pre accumulating debts, and by transferring ollodis petty to others, enabled him to defraud his ole o? tors, and enrich himself by the ruin 0? ° l oot?: In the extremity of despair, wady wort11):10,410 duals, whO had become the dopis d the and designing debtors, and who had supPorte.adocet; in their wanton prodigalities , were at last '/,.stiei to fly to the same desperate expedients ‘ o h ° , immured in the same prison w ith those.wbo., be: adopted by the latter; and Were...n(oW'. 110 produced their ruin. The documents to wo ven , had adverted had been presented to him by 0 , Sheriffs' Officers, who could confirm their 'fits' [Daniel-160ns by references to p ar ti cu lar 0 0 ' 4 1 which they ban been officially concerned. Se ve ',ll principle, debtor of an h p abominablerso a those officers for the descriptionthemselves app purpose of arresting "sae in order that they mig ,ht thus sorreptitiou si l the benefit of the Act. They even went s° to their inf a mo us con d uc t as to put the instr°°/-,;ss of arrest, the very writs, in the officers' "bef telling which prison to take them to. T l '`', 1 11 04 outraged and ridiculed every moral ohligao °l "p° put their creditors to the utmost defianc e ' d Uf property thus nef a ri o usly s a c r ificed exceede Poo the officers' account, one hundred thousan d P° c (01 sterling ; and the dividends did not equ al li e top e, thing in the pound. He would not t rot bat House further upon the subject at preseu r ' any attempt should be made to obtai n a re ll i , e to( of the Act, be should feel it his duty t o PIL) a Committee of Inquiry into the subjec t • The Hon. W. H. LYTTLETON said , h i k e Icie r ; concurred in the opinion of the Wortll relte man, that while it was intended a fforo w t t ad to the unfortunate debtors, so wide a fie s ot ° been opened for the unprincipled. He w rfrod a l l that in addition to the infamous mode °'`‘, r lent transfers of property, there was an° t " e tt rats' of great importance to the interest of the l it to nity. He bad been informed, and believeitied to he the fact, that tradesmen were eomP e. 0 0 " charge higher prices considerably than th e Of of the articles offered would justify, hecatcrits were liable to such frauds, it became nece 9 " c aw" Oleos to charge such high prices, or the wit not possibly meet their expences and W I. 00 losses. He hoped that when the measnre 000 under the consideration of the House sonl e " t o e ° would be discovered by which the utif °r ` e 60 1$ debtor might be relieved, and at the, 091 afford protection to the community at la r g e n ‘ r efe ll : Mr. BROUGHAM was unwilling, on t he u e rtli fir occasion, to enter into any discussion concaoases the merits of the Petition now before. the He could not, however, remain in silenc e ' s e d his Hon; Frieud (Mr. Alderman vanced the doctrines which had now falleoooo him. He hoped his Hon. Friend %void ( ' %P c / him if he (Mr. Brougham) considered it I ° o oo not to allow such statements to go into Eh% r igtl try without entering his protest. If a oil were made of the present and former 10,19:4 now under consideration would be fono c ' most salutary nature. If it had beets in ro °l oo s stances injurious to trade, as was asserted, cb were to blame who had given credi t to s°oolll jurious amounts, knowing the consequen ces „Ou r s Act. Gentlemen were mistaken as t o the ° of the Act. It had been the pro dilet i J united wisdom of several Gentlemen. It ` s oo qls ho il j Redesdale's Bill ; and bad been thought bYcepfee Houses s o co mplete a s y s tem, as to have l e s , i t s ( little or no amendment. Th e Bill would n°‘00111; the wisdom of e xperience, and might coogeg o dst ' receive several amendments, so as L 4) fin rai, e a , Dr, cio ob i hi ( 6 1 ,,, Ilet, •, (),. (sits ?.11,