The Sun. — London, England, 1828-07-05 00:00:00

that the recommendation of the Finance Committee, for the reduction of the office in question, ought to be attended to. Sir J. SEBRIGHT •did not think himself jus tified in voting for the- abolition of the office.— ( Hear, hear.) Mr. BERNAL said, if the. Master General dis eharged his dude.: properly, there could be no occa sion Inc this deputy office. Col. WOOD supported the utility of the office. Mr. W. HORTON knew that opposition to any recommendation of the Committee would meet with popularity in that House, bin he was not in clined to gain that popularity any more than that which was to be obtained' out of doors, by pretend ing to vote for the reduction of 1,2001. a year for the relief of the people.—(Hear, hear.) To do so was a complete farce.—(Hear, hear.) If the office was not necessary, he said, " Let it be abolished ;" but let them not, for the appearance of effecting a saving, injure an important branch of the military service.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. BARING thought in the Committee up stairs, and still thought, that this was an office that might be got rid of. The Artillery Department was HOW said to be in an excellent condition, and it was urged as a reason for retaining this office ; but he begged to call to the recollection of Hon. Mem bers, that when the department was in quite an op posite state from the present, this same office of Lieutenant-Genelal of the Ordnance ,existed. But .the best evidence to its uselessness at present was the continual absence of the persons who filled it. Ile should support his Right HOB. Friend in taking the sense of the House upon the question. Sir E. OWEN explained. Mr. CALCRAFT did not consider the finances to be in a condition that required the proposed re duction. Those Members of the House, who, like himself * , wer4 net members of the Finance Commit tee, and who were, therefore, ignorant of the Com mittee's motives for recommending the abolition of the office of Lieutenant-General of the Ordnance, should decide oh the evidence given in the report. On this ground he appealed to the 'House whether they could doubt the necessity of upholding the office in question. When he was at the other side of the House, he pressed the reduction of the Ordnance Department as strongly as his lion. Friends there were disposed to press it. (Cheers and laughter.) 'True, the Commissioners of Military Inquiry had thought it might be dispensed with, but, at the same time they recommended an arrangement, and a hoard, over which the Lieutenant-General should be placed. The Duke of Wellington, some years ago, had reduced the Ordnance Department to the lowest scale possible. As to the argument, that an officer of the line ought not to be appointed to the sitea len, hie experience in the Ordnance Office con vinced him that an officer of the line was more fitted to fill it than an officer of artillery. There was one reduc:ion he regretted ; namely, that of the fakirs' of clerk of the Ordnance from 2,000/. to 1,2001. He had himself proposed an increase of the salary in 1824, and succeeded, with the unanimous consent of Parliament. lie was sure the House would not ogee to diminish the efficiency of any public office. He should not vote for the continuance of the office in question if he did not think that the abolition of it would diminish the efficiency; of the Ordnance Office. Sir .f. GRAHAM did not think the Hon. Gen- Ilemun was under military or arbitrary controul, but . he certainly gave the Hon. Gentleman credit fm fit esight in his Parliamentary conduct. The Right Hon. Gentleman's sympathy with the Lieutenant- General of the Ordnance was very natural. The Paymaster of the Army was not far removed from the Lieutenant-General of the Ordnance. When the abolition of the latter was proposed, it was to be expected that the Paymaster should tremble for his situation. " Jam proximne ardet Uealegon." The Lion, Gentleman then went on to prove, from the evidence on the repott, that the office was un necessary, and that it ought to be abolished. He was sorry to have heard the Right Hon. Member for Newcastle say the saving proposed w.eis a farce. A military authority had once said that county meetings too were a farce. The Finance Com mittee was the last legacy of Mr. Canning—that on which his memory rested. How much surprised then was he to hear an Hon. Gentleman reject as a farce the first saving recommended by the institution appointed by his deceased friend and patron, The public would see from that, that they were not to depend on the friends of Mr. Canning for an at- I tempt to reduce the public expenditure— " Spein si *pram ad*citis hahuistis in armis Penite. Spes sibi quisque sed hxc quain angust4 videtit." lie hoped the Parliament would answer the expec- • tationg of the country by sanctioning the recom mendation of the Committee. Mr. W. HORTON explained. Sir GEORGE MURRAY thought, and so did all persons well aoeuainted with the matter, that a military officer was the fittest to be at the head of the Ordnance Departmetit, Officers of the other services might be more advantageously employed in the other offices; and for himself he was always glad to see a naval officer in souse way connected with it, so great a part of the business of the Ord nance had necessarily a reference to our service on the sea. Allusion had been made by the Hon. Member for Rochester, to the absence of the Mas ter-General and Licittereint-General of the Ord nance, but he quite agreed with the Paymaster- General that this was the exception and not the g eneral rule. He was perfectly convinced that by the abolition of the office of Lieutenant-General of the Ordnance, the efficiency Af that important tie partment would be injured in a greater degree than the State would be benefitted in the saving of the salary, and he would accordingly rote against the measure. Mr. STANLEY said, the Lieutenant-General was a link in the chain at the Ordnance, which was file the chain mentioned by the well-known poet — And drags, at each iemove, a lengthening chain." Lord Anglesea, it was eaid, found great inconve nience in the absence of the Lieutenant-General, but then Lord Anglesea was is a bad state of health', and therefore no argument could be founded upon this circumstance. He AO not certaielly think that the case now under consideration was one of the most glaring; still, however, he would vote foe the suppression of the office, because, under the existing state of things, no retrenchment, however trifling, was to be despised. Lord MORPETH said, the chief, and rteteed, ,only, argument of the lion, and Right Hon. Gentle men opposite seemed to be, that there was sufficient buskiess to occupy both the Master-General And Lieute.oant-General of Ordnance ; and even if theie statement to this effect had not been triumphantly met by hie Hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle, yet there was one stubborn fact—the fact of the re peated and continued absence, at different times and -coder various eifewnetances, of this indilcpensable officer, which never eould be got over. And he rnust add, that, considerierg who was at present the Master-General of the Ordnance, that was not the period at which he could feel any, the least, regret at an addition to alts occupations of that officer, hoping that the fresh business would have the . e ff eet of employing those leisure haters which appeared to have been hitherto devoted to his private correspon dence.—(Great cheering.)—Wit!' reset to the actual reduction, he would say, that the Rupee would derive little credit from opposing it, after having itself appointed the Committee, which it was admitted upon all hands enj o y ed the .coaden r ce of the country. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER having been a member of the Finance Committee, tied having expressed an opinion - there, that the re duction was impolitic, thought it right to avow that opinion in the face of the House and the country. 'The question was one which ought not to be de ,eided on grounds of personal conduct or feeling. Mr. MABERLY complained of the office of Ar chitect on the establishment at the 'cower as a emecure. declared that GE had alread; the duties of this Gentleman were now performed by the Engineers of the Ordnance Department, that measures were taken for the Nrspectiye abo lition of the office, and that Colonel Paisley, of Chatham, was employed in drawing up a code for the regulation and instruction of young Officers in the business of a civil engineer. —ln his opinion, it was a gross exaggeration to say that absence was a sufficient reason in itself to do a .vay with'an office. Sir M. W. RIDLEY thought that this propo sition was not a question of absence or not, but whether an office which might have been of service in tvar, was still necessary in the time of peace —or, in other word,:, was there now any reason why the office should be continued ? In his opinion, nothing had been shewn in favour of that continuation, and he should therefore vote against it. Mr. PEEL observed, that he who had moved for the appointmentof the Finance Committee would be the lust person to do any thing to deteriorate from its utility. A reduction of 9,0001. had already taken place, and he would ask whether any bettt;r testimony could be given of the feeling of the Go vernment ? With respect to that particular vote, - he entreated the House to consider the situation in which those would be placed who had done more for the reduction in that department than any of their predecessors. Through the exertions of the Noble Duke at the head of the Government, and his Right Hon. Friend, a reduction to the amount of 435,000/. had taken place between 1820 and 1828. And how was that reduction made ? By forbearance from the exercise of patronage.—(Hear, hear.)—His Right Hon Friend, believing the office of Lieutenant-Ge neral 'calculated to be of use to the country, had felt it it to be his duty to support the continuation of that office, and though he (Mr. Peel) had every wish to skew all possible respect to the recommendations of the Finance Committee, he yet felt bound to sup port the opinion of his Right Hou. Friend. Mr. BROUGHAM' though he did not regard the present as a question iu itself of very overwhelm ing importance, yet considered it of sufficient im portance to call upon the country to support the re commendations of the Finance Committee.—(Hear, hear.) And this question led him to say a word as to-what had been stated by the lion. Member for Durham (Sir 11. Hardinge). That Right Hon. Gentleman had contended, that absence did not re quire the forfeiture of office.—( Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Brougham) would not say that it did ; but the real question was, whether the office was necessary or not To prove that it was not necessary, the most important evidence had been adduced, and they had been told that the Lieutenant-General was ab sent one year and three months at a time, and the Master-General one year at a time. He never would allow it to be said, without raising his voice in op position to it, that the smallness of any retrenchment was any argument against the propriety of it, and whether he had to vote on the sum of 1,5001. or of 250/., he should equally support the spirit of retrench ment in both cases. On these grounds he should never give a vote more cordially or heartily than the one he was about to give in favour of the Amendment. After a few words from Mr. PEEL, The House divided, and the numbers were— For the A:nentiment 95 Against it 204 Majority lO9 Mr. Humg said, that as the members of the Finance Committee had been in attendance for twelve hours, and as they naturally felt that they ought to attend to each item of the Estimates, he thought it but fair, after the vote had been come to, that the Chairman should report progress, and ask leave to sit again. Sir H. HARDINGE thought, that as the Session was so very fur advanced, it was quite necessary that the Estimates should be gone through as speedily as possible. Mr. MAMERLN agreed with Mr. Hume. Mr. HUME would not object to go on, if the Members were disposed to hear him. Sir H. IIARDINGE would postpone the items to which the Hon. Member objected, if he would point them out, and allow the Committee to go on with the rest of the items. Mr. HUME, however, persisted in his Motion, and strangers were ordered to withdraw, when there appeared for Mr. Home's 41, against it, 172 ; ma. jority against the Motion, 131. On entetitag the gallery, we found the Chairman of the Committee patting the Question on the original Resolution; on wb;cli the Committee again divided, when there appeared for the Resolution, 163, against it, 43 ; majority in favour of the Aeso . On re•entering the gallery we found Mr. BROUGHAM on his legs, exculpating Mr. Flume from the charge of being moved by factious motives. General GASCOYNE said, the Hon. Members opposite complained of clamour, but it appeared ,o him that the Gentlemen on the other Ride had been equally clamorous, , --(A laugh.) Mr. BROUGHAM said, it was very true that there bad been clamour on Its side of the House, but it was when the Gallant General was sitting there for the Division,—(A laugh.) After a few words from Mr. HUMr., the ,question foe reporting progress was agretia to, wjthout a di , vision ; the House resumed, and the Chairman re. ported progivis, and obtained leave to s;t again of Monday next. CORPORATE FUNDS' BILL. Mr. OTWAY CAVE wing moved that the Report of the Corporate Funds' 13W be brought up, after a short discus:don, the following 41v4ion took place : For the Motion . 28 Against it 27 Majority On the Motion fur agreeing to the Amendments, a further discussion ,arose. Eventually, the further consideration ofthe Motion was postponed to Tuesday. NEW SOUTH WALES. The New South Wales' Bil , l was read a third time and passed. On the motion for the third rending of the Lon gitude Acts' Repeal Bill, Mr. D. GILBERT said, that he I,vislied to inform I the public, through the medium of that House, that l i he objected to the dissolution of the Board of Lon gitude, and that tits Marti Was ,tfisf,olved solely on the grounds of economy. After a few words from Mr. IV otiowati # ll 4 Mr. J. W. CROKER, the Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Tuesday next. CINQUE PORTS. Dr. PHILIJMORE brought in a Bill to enable the Deputy Warden of the Cinque Ports, and Lieu tenant of Dover Castle, to apt for the Lord Warden of the Cinque Ports and Constable of Dover Castle during his illness.—lt was read a second tirne. Adjourned at a Quarter past Two o'Clock, fig Monday next. COMMITTAL OF CAPT. BTPYART, LATE or 'env Many Hussxr,j,.--This wretched mix, whose hands are iniffue4 with titie blood of so many human be ings, arrived in this city yesterday, in a .chaise, from. Skibbereen, where he bad been ;0 Auskodsr t)r some days, and was immediately committed to the aounty g. 44, under a county Magistrate's warrant. He is a mama of axtudl stature, and rather thin and pal e in the face, with a sharp quick eye. As far as we ca n learn, the man ap pears iu a sane and tranquil state o f mind, and has spoken of the tragedy in which lie was the principal, with ap parent indiffei:e i ;is, , e . Some of his observations on this head have been communicated to us, but for obvious reasons we forbear from giving then. patheity. He has ex pressed great solicitude about his wife, whoie situation, shire the lamentable intelligence reached her, has been most pree,a,:iogs. She was far advanced in a state of pregnancy, and within the last few days we understand she Wits visited, with preuratute accj i iiphenzent, and was deli-' versa of a dead ; child ! Syzwart i T !tea elso written some letters, one ,i,n particular to the owners, revertinz to his; situation, and tetpiring some necessaries for his yersonal conii3Orts while in prison. The situation of those families; into whose recesses he carried dea th and misery, is truly deplorable. The mother of young Ap..,sur.p4AN is incon solable, and it is thought will scarcely survive the shock ; and the family and friends of Captain RAYNES, who wa: generally respected acd esteemed, are equally afflicted. A subscription has been opened for the families of some cif the sufferers.-- Cork Constitutiun, SPIRIT OP THE PUBLIC JOURNALS. Mr. O'Connell, it appears, has been returned for Clare, his Right Hon. opponent having declined the contest, after one day's unsuccessful trial. This event may be considered as one of the most extra ordinary that ever occurred under a system of pst pular representation. The Catholics of an Irish county have turned out from Parliament a gentle man who had always voted for them, and who, be ing a Member of the Administration, must have a certain degree of influence among his colleagues on every question bearing upon the Catholic cause. But, beyond this, they have, in pure wantonness, as it would seem, and from having a redundancy of efficient friends in the Legislature, returned as their representative a gentleman who cannot by possibility render them the slightest Parliamentary service. In other words, they elect a man who is incompetent to act until the law shall have been clanged, while they throw away one of the most useful instruments for accomplishing the desired alteration. This, how ever, is but what appears on the surface of Mr. O'Connell's enterprise.. The Catholic question has been left so long unsettled by the power which might, through constitutional means, have disposed of it,— the passions engendered by the frequent disappoint ment of the Catholics have been permitted to ac quire such deadly and frightful intensity,—the orga nization of their multitudinous power has, from exercise and experience, become so ripe, that the Catholic leaders have begun to cast off from their policy all regard to such public objects as the state and existing constitution of this empire hold out to the ambition of its people., At length, despairing of admission to their dne share of power, according to law, they have encouraged each other to despise what they despaired of. They have, we doubt not, long ere now, begun to daily with revolution—with projects, we mean, of revolution,—and one grand purpose of their exertions has been to bring about an early breaking up of the old associations in common life, by which the mind of the lower orders of their countrymen had been long and insensibly directed. One of the freaks of the French revolu tionists, after dissolving the relations between noble and plebeian—master and servant—rich and poor, — was to recast the days and months of the calendar, that no change, even the most extravagant and un heard of, should thenceforth have power to shock the prepossessions of the multitude. This was the true way of setting about a total revolution. We are deceived if some end like this has not entered into the imagination of the demagogues of Ireland, failing the hope of a decisive influence over the Government obtained through an exhibition of the malcontent power. The people are to be trained on to a novel system, having no alliance with, or analogy to, the old. The famished electors of the several counties must be incited by every ex pedient of religious and political fanaticism, to beard the landlords, who are absolute disposers of their destiny, and thus to dissolve for ever the -oldest and most binding connexion, that, apart from blood re lationship, exists in an agricultural country,—viz., that between him who owns the soil and him who tills it. Such a change was inconceivable seven years ago : now it has become an institution. Again, the people were to be accustomed to look up to a different order of representatives from those who made laws for the British Empire, and the Catholic Association was set on foot. It is in effect a Ca• tholic Parliament,—a loeul Parliament,—a partial indemn'fication to the people for that of which the union deprived them. But it is still deficient in form—and forms are of value to the mass of mankind. It becomes necessary therefore, to turn the forme of election, which are provided by law, to a service which the law does not acknowledge, and se Catholics, who cannot sit in the King's Parliament, are chosen under the King's au thority, that they may thus escape molestation.— When rejected from the Imperial House of Com mons, they will betake themselves to the Irish House of Commons, and sitting in the Catholic Association, will hold themselves forth to the Irish people as their true and only representatives, " freely-chosen according to law," but prevented by the "English foreigners" from entering that distant assembly to which the right of legislation, inherent in the people of Ireland, was basely and traitorously transferred by the bayonets or bribes of the Minister of Great Britain. There rests no shadow of doubt upon our minds that at the very next general elec tion, should emancipation not yet be carried, the policy of the Catholic, thus driven to extreme courses will be, to obtain a return of members of. their own communion throughout the whole of Ire land,—that being refused admittance to the Imperial Parliament, they will constitute a native Parliament in Dublin, sitting►, voting, practically legislating for their country, and leaving the connexion between the two islands dependent on a thread, which the slightest movement ill the politics of Europe will suffiee to snap asunder. Of this revolution,—tre mendous, and if the policy of England do not reform itself, inevitable,--sthe lines are oared out, and the foundations laid already. That the Catholics are able to effect it, who, after the examples of Clare and Waterford, can doubt ? That the Catholics are to blame for it, we do not, in our consciences, be lieve, borne down, as they have been, by unrelent ing hostility, and stripped of all the appanages of freedom. This, then, is the prospect which some people sneer at as ridiculous! This is the power which babblers talk of despising. The Government of England ought now to feel that their empire is now in the hands of the Irish Catholics, and they have been already told that "it is the spawn of their own wrang,"--Tnnes. The Election of Clare terminated on the first day. Mr, Vesey Fitzgerald, finding that he had only polled, in the comae of the day, 27 votes, very pru dently resigned, Subsequently to his resignation, Mr. Pierce Butler offered • himself as a candidate, and obtained as many votes as placed him above Mr. Fitzgerald, in order to cut off all hope of pro citritig the return of the President of the Board of Trade. This is unquestionably a great triumph, in whatever poiut pf view we consider it. It esta blishes, in the most unauswerable manner, the power over the electors possessed by the Roman Catholics; and shows them that they have but to remain united, and they will compel' the Government to do them justice. A whole people cannot be punished ; the whAe tenantry of a country cannot be detruded; and w l laat frotestpt proprietor would dare to think of rmithing exar t iples, where the defection is general ? .Thu grand secret Inc; been taught the Irish people; and 138 well might they attempt to roll back the tides of the oceau, as ko - think nf re placing them in the prostrate condition is which they were before they made the trial of their strength t Waterford. May stupid bigotry and hypocrisy be alX'ays thus humbled ! May those who shu t their ears against the resßectful claims of the ag distractions of an injured nation, lie a lways tints grieved for justice , an d please t laughed to scorn! O ut of th e depths of • injustice , hen,elves with the as if to teach rn,eti th a t t h r i r on ly safety retribution often springs up in a wonderful mann er, is in justice and moderation , arid that th e' strength w hich is derive;] [rpm tyre violation of rights, and wounding the feelings of our fellow-creattires,' always dis appoint those who confide ip it; The. Elections are now, then, in the hands of the OathOficst and they know the use they ought to make of their power. It' they remain faithful to the principle which has gained them . victory in Clare, their question is decided. That principle is, that as long • as the Catholics are excluded by the Government from the enjoyment of their _ , onstitutional rights, as long as their religion is made a pretext fur subjecting them to an odious ascendancy, so long shoUld they ' refuse to content themselves with candidates who merely epeage to vote for Catholic Emancipation , ' another respects they are the mere tools of ' the Ministry. This would soon bring Ministers to their senses—this would soon' enable the Great Untaught to see a way out of the difficulties with which the question now appears to him to be beset; this would compel the needy and unprincipled aris tocracy of Ireland, to whom Parliamentary interest is almost. a condition of existence, to bestir them selves in a very different manner in settling the question from that which they have hitherto used. Let the Catholics always have present to their minds the fable of the bundle of sticks—let them reinaiu im pressed with this truth, that if the Government is against them, they cannot be their friends who strengthen the hands of the Government, and enable it to oppress them. Let them, therefore, be all as one man against all who, directly or indirectly, op- prie them, and stand in the way of their success.— Mr. O'Connell has been declared duly elected, and the point which now will occupy general attention is, whether he can sit or not. It is stated by a 1 contemporary " that Mr. Charles Butler is still convinced, after the most mature consideration, that Mr. O'Connell may sit in Parliament without being subjected to any penalty." We have been told that at the time when Mr. Butler's opinion was first al luded to at the meeting, he hail not considered the question with the care and deliberation which a pro fessional man would deem neeessary, before deliver ing a serious judgment in so important a matter; and that his opinion had merely reference to a partial statement of the authorities. Since that time, how ever, be has deliberately and carefully looked into the question, and the result of his examination, we are assured, is, that Mr. O'Connell cannot be prevented from 3ittine; and voting. The real points on which the question hinges, we are told remain yet to be stated. We have heard that it hinges on the construction of the Act of the Irish Parliament called Yelverton't , Act, taking the preamble and the body of the Act in conjunction, and in the meaning attached to the word disqualed in the Act of the 41st of the King. It is contended that the being a Papist or Catholic is not a disqualification, that there is no law excluding a Catholic from Parliament as such, and that it is only incidentally that he is ex cluded by refusing to take the oath. The penalty being directed against disqualification does not, it is said, affect a Catholic, and he cannot be compelled to take the oath. However this be, we have no doubt that a professional gentleman of Mr. Butler's character would not lightly commit himself to a po sitive opinion in a question of this kind. If the house of Commons should decide in favour of Mr. O'Connell, which, if the law be in his favour, may be anticipated, Emancipation is achieved without the necessity of the concurrence of the Lords. In that case, they will not persist long in excluding the members of their own body from Parliament.— Morning Chronicle. Our " Great Untaught," who told us that expe rience had disproved the theory, that a paper cur rency was perfectly safe so long as it was convertible into gold, and, moreover, that " if the Bankers of Scotland were not able to have a sufficient gold coinage from the Bank of England, as much mis chief would arise from the one pound note circula , Lion in Scotland a§ there had in England," forgot to tell us how the Scotch obtain their gold coinage front England. According to the " Great Untaught," the Bank has only to say to the Scotch Bankers, we give you no more gold, and they are all shut up. This comes of old gentlemen of sixty mastering a science in twenty-four hours ! Why it is no more in the povver of the Bank of England, or any Eng lish houses, to prevent the Scotch Bankers from having gold, than it is in their power to prevent the Thames from flowing into the sea. The Scotch Bankers, by keeping their eye on the Exchanges with England, can force gold into Scotland, if they wish to do so, just as the Bank of England, by look ing at the Exchanges, can always obtain gold. Gold, like every other commodity, betakes itself to the best market ; and all who have wherewithal to buy it, whether Scotch, Irish, or Laplanders, will always be seen to obtain it. But there is such a thing as buying gold too dear !—the Scotch Bankers, by drawing in their issues, could always force sales to any amount ; but were they to do so without a mo tive, they would deserve to be put in Bedlam. The Scotch Bankers, we lave no doubt, laughed very heartily at the " Great Untaught," deeming his proposition a pregnant proof of the wisdom of the saying of Count Olenstiern, " with how little wis dom is the world governed."—Bid. Mr. O'Connell has been returned Member of Par• 'lament for the county of Clare, and according to u report, which was pretty generally circulated last night, has arrived in town. The nomination of the candidates took place on Monday last. Mr. V. Fitzgerald was put on the list of candidates by Sir E. O'Brien, and Mr. O'Connell by Mr. O'Gorman. The polling began on Tuesday, and at three o'clock on the same day Mr. Fitzgerald, who had only 27 votes polled, gave in his resignation. Mr. Pierce Butler then offered himself as a candidate and polled a few votes, for the purpose, it is understood, of preventing the possibility, in case of O'Connell's election being declared void, of Mr. V. Fitzgerald establishing his return. Before the commencement of the polling there was a good deal of speechifying on both sides. Mr. Fitzgerald commenced, ° in a speech replete with argument and gentlemanly feeling, and endeavoured to rebut the various charges which had been preferred against him, and to establish his title as a fit and proper person to represent his late constituents in Parliament. He appears to have been received and listened to with great attention; but his eloquence and his arguments were thrown away—seven-eighths of the voters had made up their minds before they had heard his statement— the Irish idol was the man on whose return they had set their affections ; and Mr. V. Fitzgerald, per ceiving that he had not the slightest chance with his more popular opponent, most judiciously and commendably declined a contest, which, had it been pushed to extremities, must have terminated in bloodshed and murder. The speech of Mr. O'Con nell is not entitled to equal praise. It abotoads with bombast, ill humour, and threats, which, for the sake of the cause of which he professes himself the ad vocate, had better have been spared. The mere circumstance of his putting himself forward as a con didate for the honour, which he must be consci ous he cannot substantially enjoy, has greatly prejudiced the Catholic cause with all rational and moderate-minded persons in this coun try as well as in Ireland ; and the tone_ of triumph and daring in which he thought fit to in dulge, will not, assuredly, 'mend the matter. The great Agitator, it is said, intends to take his seat in the House of Commons on Monday —or rather to present his face at the Bar ; for if either he, or those who support him, imagine for a moment that he will ever give a vote in it, they are egregiously deceived. The law which excludes Catholics from being Mem bers of the Legislature is most clear and explicit ; and even if it 'were net se ? its real meaning and in tent are so thoroughly proven, not only by the prac tice and general understanding of the country, but by the prayers, petitions, and remonstrances of the Candidate himself during a series of years, that we can scarcely conceive a greater insult to the good sense of the country, than to assert that the Catho lics are not legally, however unjustly, excluded from Parliament. The' delusion, hOwOver, is on the point of vanishing; and we will venture to predict that a dog -cart would convey to his native country in perfect afet.y, without any difficulty in stowing , all the gl ory w hi c h h e 1 1 0 1 14PP 4 enterprise. to T• • to derive from the • - We have given elsewhere a very fOl nec"nt of the proceedings at the Clara Election , W e sti l l ad here to our opinion, that the Catholics have been wasting a great deal of energy to no useful purpose; that their favotnite candidate has succeeded no further than in obtaining the privilege of franking a letter, and that he will retain that privilege for a vei: few We heard teat he was expected 14st night at the- "'B u ll and Mouth, " a very appropriate sign for the lodgings of such an 'orator. ;He 'certainly intandS to 't'alk into the Hou Se of Commons on Monday- night.' Mr. Charles Butler, it is said, still adheres to his opinion, that an Catholic may sit in the House (,f Corranons without taking the oaths, and wthout a penalty. As we have not heard the reasons of the Learned Gentle man, whose legal knowledge we are very far from wishing to under -rate, we must suspend our criticism. To us the question seems, con sidered in any point, of view, the plainest that ever was propounded, whether we seek for a solution in the Irish Acts, the English Act?, or in the Act of Union. In one of the debates on the repeal of the Corporation and Test Acts (April 24), Lord Eldon did indeed say, that, if the Bill passed as it then stood, .which it actually did, there would be no means left of excluding Catholics from Corporations unless by the peculiarities of their Charters. To the great and surpassing knowledge of the Noble Earl we feel compelled to bow with almost implicit reverence ; but even granting what he said to be indisputable—it was disputed, and keenly—still that has nothing to do with seats in Parliament. There is this peculiarity in the present state of the law, that we have no Corporation and Test Acts, and we have, at the same time, an Indemnity Act, but neither the Repeal Act, nor the Indemnity Act, have the slightest bearing on the case. The only ground, so far as we can guess, on which Mr. O'Connell relies, is, that the Act of Union contains no penal clause, and the Act of 41 Geo. 111., cap 52, which revives the penal clauses of the English and Irish Acts, is a violation of the Union. There is indeed something Irish in the penal clause of that Act, for it first declared the votes given for a " disabled" person null and void, and the election null and void, and then in- fliets penalties on him, who is thus declared to ' be no Member, for sitting and voting. It is evident that this supposes the House not to be in possession of any test whereby to discover whether a Member be disabled from being elected or not—or in other words that a Member may sit and vote without taking the oaths. Our doctrine is that the simple refusal is, ipso facto, a nullifying of the return, by declaring the soi-disant Member to be disabled. It is obvious that O'Connell, if he can be allowed to sit and speak, will take the of the penalties of prcemunire, none of which, save the fine, and per haps not even that, he calculates on being made to suffer. Nous verrons. It is gratifying to see by the accounts that every thing passed so quietly ut the election. The real cause of so much tranquillity seems to have been that the forty-shilling men had nobody to tight with, as they were all on one side. The reports of a riot, and of an attack on Mr. Fitz gerald, seems to have been totally unfounded. It does not appear that he was in any way insulted, and his speech, which was a very excellent and con vincing one, was heard, not only attentively, but with much applause.—New Times. I - OMITTED YESTRRDAY FOR WANT OF ROOM.] The prodigious absurdity of Mr. O'Connell's at tempt to get himself elected by the 40s. freeholders for Clare, is apparent enough, without much argu ment about the matter. But it his blustering, and other men's drivelling, should have shaken the common sense of any man, woman, or ohild, in England, as to the impossibility of a Catholic sit ting and voting in the House of Commons without swearing the oaths prescribed by Act of Parliament for all Protestant members, we take for granted that the articles of Union, will set the matter right. The fact is, that the turning out a representative who may have displeased his constituents, is mixed up in a very stupid and blundering way by most people, with the turning in another who may please them ever so well, but cannot by possibility re present them. Because it is good policy to expel Mr. Vesey Fitzgerald, it must therefore be as good to supersede him by a nominal member, who in one fortnight wil; cease to be a member, and will, for the gratification of his own coarse vanity, have robbed the " rent " of three-fourths of its capital, to the utter extinction of the only fund out of which poor voters taking part against their landlords can be pro tected or - indemnified. We never thought so ill of O'Connell before. The following is a copy of the 4th article of the Act of Union, which says—" And that every one of the Lords of Parliament of the United Kingdom, and every member of the House of Commons of the United Kingdom, in the first and all succeeding Parliaments, shall, until the Parliament of the United Kingdom, otherwise provide, take the oaths, and make and subscribe the oath now by law enjoined to be taken, made, and subscribed by the Lords and Commons of the Parliament of Great Britain."— Times. Our " Great Untaught," last night, knocked about theories as he did Frenchmen at Waterloo. " The measure of 1526 (he said) was not founded on any theory, but on experience, which the few last years had confirmed ; while that experience had proved the fallacy of another theory—a theory which stated that a paper currency was perfectly safe as long as it was convertible into gold. Expe rience during the last few years had proved th►s theory not to ke true. It had likewise proved another theory not true—that theory, that one pound notes and sovereigns could circulate together." What a rot among the theories ! His Grace has a compendious way of disposing of theories. He re minds us of another great warrior, who late in life chose to distinguish himself in another science—the late Mr. Astley, of the Amphitheatre. Having tra velled much, he took into his head to improve geo graphy—and when those who were executing his maps under his instructions, ventured to observe that Vienna or Munich had generally been placed a hundred miles in another direction, he would an swer—" Put down Vienna here—l know it is here, by G—d ; for I have seen it myself." The " Great Untaught" seems equally contident of his own ex perience.—Morning Chronicle. We are sorry to find (but it is difficult to credit the fact), that se eminent a Special Pleader as Mr. Charles Butler should have so far committed him. self on the occasion of Mr. O'Connell's present out rageous conduct, as to pronounce that Catholic Agi tator legally qualified to sit and vote in Parliament. Such at least was the representation made at the English Catholic Meeting on Thursday last; but we must still continue to hope that Mr. Butler was strangely misrepresented on the occasion. Mr. O'Connell's .shallow professed opinion (it cannot surely be his real conviction), which is asserted, er roneously we trust, to have received the sanction of Mr. Butler's judgment, is, that as the Act of Parlia ment preventing Catholics from sitting in the . Par liament of Great Britain was passed in Charles the Second's reign—and that restricting them from the Parliament of Ireland, in the reign of William the Third—the effect of them is separate and distinct; and that neither of them apply to the Parliament of the United Kingdom, which derived its name and origin from the Unitin.—Nothing can possibly be more fallacious than this species of logic; nor is it reasonable to suppose that Mr. O'Connell himself could have been ignorant of the untenable nature of the ground he assumed, unless it be contended in his behalf that in the greatmess of his legal knowledge he could not stoop to read the Articles of that very Union upon which he pretended to found his claim o o Au f il eligibility upon oi subject; it s ;f i a t feotar,n itde effectually el i sl n y pParliament.removesro iprovides, asl,l ,d, The oruhba tt every one of the I,ords of Parliament of the United Kingdom, and every Memb7r of the House of Com mons of the United Kingdom, in the first and all succeeding Parliaments, shall, until the Parliament of the United Kingdom shall otherwise provide, take the oaths, and make and subscribe the declaration, and sAs!.:rihe tlo oath now by (aw enjoined to be talon, made and suliscribei by the Lords and Com mons of the Parliament of Great Britain." So much for the legal knowledge, or the candour, or the Constitutional research, of Mr. O'Connell ! Morning Post. Mr. Peel's abseaee from the House of Commons, on the long and stormy debate en the Church Rates' Rill, has excited very general surprise ; and there are those who look upon it as a somewhat ominous indication, either of the High Church party having somewhat cooled towards the Right Hon. Gentle man, or of his having cooled towards them. Cer tainly the occasion was one where the whole weight of Toryism was required to support a measure ex ceedingly questionable, if not obnoxious in its prin ciple and details; and we really pity the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who appears to have been left to fight, single-handed, a battle which required mote than ordinary force and Generalship. We do not deny, however, that the Right Hon. Gentleman bore the brunt of the engagement with great skilled good humour, betraying none of that irritability and waspishness of which this Session has furnished t oo many instances. The Bill in question seems to be but little understood on either side of the House, which is alone a sufficient reason why it should stand over for the present. It emanates, we believe, from the Commissioners for building new Churches ; but who, probably without being aware of it, have al' lowed themselves to be swayed into the introdue' tion of several of the most objectionable clauses hi those patterns of purity and wisdom, the S e /ect Vestries, in and about the metropolis. /law to gift such bodies as these any new powers to tax the in' habitants, when it is notorious that they have 9° grossly abused those with which they have beer already intrusted, is a proposition which the public in general were net at all prepared for, and which Parliament, we trust, will effectually resist, if it hag not already done so. Indeed, from the feeling s° strongly expressed on Monday, and the liberal die position which the Chancellor of the Exchequer showed to meet an opposition, the weight of which he had not anticipated, we may consider the measnct as virtually abandoned, at least for a season.-' Morning Herald. POLICE INTELLIGENCE. MA RL BOROUGH-STREET. —ln consequence of pri' vate information given to Mr. Plank, the chief office j ' of the above office, that a meeting was contetoplaW, between an Officer in the Guards and a gentlentan.° l rank and fashion, no time was lost in taking the nece" sary measures for preventing a breach of the peace' Mr. Plank, after procuring the proper authority for takiq, the parties into custody, and obtaining the assistance d another officer, Goddard, proceeded in a post-chaise will' all possible speed to the place of meeting, Worrawooef scrubs, where they arrived shortly after three o'clocl Notwithstanding the early hour of the morning the parties were assembled on the ground, amountia( in number to eight individuals, and, instead of ore duel being contemplated, it is seriously asserted that' series were intended. Immediately the chaise Wf perceived approaching the spot, the patties retreste: precipitately up an adjoining lane, for the distance of alto , ' a mile, considering themselves secure ; a position was abool being taken between the contending parties, when the officers, who had disguised their near approach from li hind the adjoining hedges, proceeded to execute their war rant, and took into custody Wiliam Barton, Esq., a Captai; in the Guards, and his antagonist, William Ford, Esq., gentleman of independent fortune. The whole of the parties, together with their duelling apparatus, were immediately conveyed to town, and wet' shortly examined before the Sitting Magistrate the Wl' looming. The object of the meeting being undeniable' the two gentlemen above named were held to bail, then'' selves in 1,0001., and two sureties in 500/. each, to keel the peace towards all his Majesty's subjects. Sir Jacob Astley and Mr. Stinson], the banker, were ti ir sureties for one of the parties. There were several causes assigned for the above l tended meeting ; the most credited of which is, that ! I originated out of some severe comment upon a late aff of honour, as it is termed, between a gallant Captain the Guards and a sporting Baronet, whose names 11 0 recently figured in one of the Courts of Law at \fee minster. MURDER DISCOVERED. A murder, perpetrated twelve months ago, i n tl l county, has just been brought to light. At Jr Summer Assizes, Th omas Ell son was tried for stew ing a . sheep, the property of Mr. Itiadbury, of Dili tun; but the principal witness, James Harrison aced 21, had disappeared, and the priioner was coo quently acquitted. Last week Ellson•vras again of prehended for .stealing two fowls, the property,: Mr. Jervis, of Preen,. and when questioned by id Tweralow, the Magistrate, respecting the mysterie absence of Harrison last year, he declared that his return home after trial, he *as• informed tly, Harrison had been murdered, and 'buried i n DJ Hocknell's field at Drayton.. This - field wa s do on Friday last, but the body was • not found but in consequence of Ellson's information, Josef Pugh and Ann Harris were apprehended. ° Saturday, Pugh confessed to Mr. Holt, of DO: ton (who bad him in custody,) and • subs' quently to Mr. Twemlow, all the circumstances the murder; and on Sunday morning Pugh taken to the field where he stated the corpse to hsti been placed (not in Hocknell's field :) he there, ' the presence of Mr. Twemlow and many othe pointed out a certain spot as the place where t l body lay, and on digging there to the depth of abd four feet, the toe of a quarter-boot appeared. C$ was taken to dig round the body; the position which was at length made apparent . ; and it woo seem that the grave had originally been made a bo five feet deep, but too short, so that the head O r pressed forward on the breast. The body had $ been stripped, and though the remuios wereof cote greatly decomposed, the . waistcoat, trousers, $ l . quarter-boots were identified, and left no doubt th the corpse was that of the unfortunate Harrison. From the information ave• have been able to c‘ lect, it appears probable . that Ann Harris (the moth of Ellson by a former husband) was the instiga t to the murder, for the purpose of preventing kW. son giving evidence against her son ; she repearet asked a man of the name of John Cox to bring (Harrison) to her house, and said that she / 1 brewed some treacle beer, and had put poison it for him. Not being able to accomplish this, agreed to pay Cox and a man of the name of Fo 3/. to murder him. The murder was committed a lane. Pugh, it is said, knocked him down, ° Cox strangled him, while Robert Cox, a broth watched. The body was buried behind aIF stack in Mr. Hocknell's field, near 'to Draylc but in consequence of the fear of dOtection, afterwards removed to the field where it v , found. In the presence of Ellson, John C threatened his (Ellson's) mother with dreadful itol ) ' cations, that it she did not pay him the money had promised, he would bring Harrison's body .° rear it against her door. Not being able to pay h the money, she gave him an old coat, and obtsil l . in her name from butchers in Drayton, meat, wh' she also gave to him. On Monday an inquest ' I held, and a verdict of wilful murder was brought, against John Cox, aged 60, John Cox, aged Robert Cox, aged It, and Anne Harris, aged' On Tuesday they were committed to our ga ol the Coroner's inquest, to take their trials at our 11 `,. assizes. The five individuals are all either connec' by birth or marriage. Pugles brother was tried lour March assizes, 1827, for a highway robbery, transported for life.—Shreresbury Chronicle. BIRTH. 01, the 4th inst. Mrs. William Warne, of Park-'' Clapham-road, of a eon. • A FA; Tandem, very desk id West ton from a lp, and An the Clot the c 2 Mhered t Ivbich 110 by the R i g h t iv.,,11 ...jy:r I I lifiep4ccu, ee::rtiioll'tenuElf: TeO4:A. eri' On the 30th ult. at M E A 4 Bishop Sandford I B.Ferrers, Esq. of Pall-rnall , T. Lavinia Hume Macleod, youngest daughter of the d i ' PG Alexander Hume, Esq. and sister of Alexander NO'. ' ' t h e D i f a E cg D i MARRIED. hlacleod, E. of llarris. • On the 3d inst. at St. James's, pover, by the Rev. : 1 0 ( 111,11 I d H o a n r , v j ey o , , bll M lT .A e;r C y u cio ra . t e e k o b f ur S n t: B Li q e t u p t l e p i l l i a 's n , t ß o i i sl t io b ps e g n a b t y e i r i _ I vi., ,, ,,ro,hetipi , itairedr i tirtaziedoui., i l tillery, eldest son of Lieutenant- Colonel Cockburn, , ~ k u . ,a.b oibi, to Louisa, eldest daughter of the late Rev. Rich. al Rector of Upper Swell, Gloucestershire. Ou the 3d inst. at Broad Hinton, Wilts, by theA• A Mr. Owen, Henry Sterry, Esq. Bermondsey, to_, I V . A .. second daughter of the late John Audrews, Esq. of 1 1 " . i, pu ~vde t• i, On the 3d inst. aged 7D4.,1E-Tatille, the wife of Mri IP , which is I Douglas, of Chiremout-square, PePtuoville. On the Ist inst, Elisabeth, wife of Robt. Win. I to y , a security Esq. solicitor, Preston. • ns . b 7, St. Pi, On the 2d inst. at Bath, ,hlariart, the wife of '' . The 1 , ,,, Ward, Esq. of Brewton, Somersetshir% On the 4th inst. in Simth Audley-street, the Sold by daughter of Edward At. Fuxhall, Evq. : ........, , trett ; Sit - -- ii,„ d wards t;' i'n (NIT!, and Puatisueo by )1. YOUNG, at the SUN w ' ,-. No. 112, Strand, London. ..,li . ht t .h.e:i.e,Lffboeyet tit:nit:l t r f -____ N- c?. cia o id o 'SE VEI, Um; %e Sh F.xliii Tuesday TH c writh* leritted beforeW Persons 3.50 CH 4 , 0 CH/ livered Ke.Oks eipence to be de Office et Three Ce Pers Agruts, mint, al Le paid the. due] N. B. W‘chies • tti • - *mite; t AtERTi areal, t 1 C tlOO5. of tll b rotiti 00 the c ending t: West N.B. T 1 T H, torti4j o , For C day mon For 0 For B For F.aturday NEW HAM AFAR , RAM in, at I And Thuradai Power or for T ( Every near th e 111 t r. e k t Str an d ; Carve, Newea4tl London, ITH in and RIV tution, c elegant a William The V in the M( return to • A doul meats t& No Col or Musk Ticket. Twelve Aletiors Moot field- S. Be(, W. D J. Von J. Hav And al As the t the Ex of Ticket to be ad( 4 n . t wil T) Prevent d 125, L ARI