The Sun. — London, England, 1841-03-16 00:00:00

MORNING ED trioN. to say, that when he accused the Ministers of the Crown of supporting another religion at the expense of their own, he made a very serious accusation which was very ill supported. What the Government really were doing, end what he trusted they would persist in doing, was attempting to give fair, full, and complete operation to the Act which was passed by the Noble Duke opposite, for the emancipation of the Catholics.—(Hear, hear.) Such was the effect, such the intention, and such, be cone iv,el to be the duty of the Government with respect to that Bill to which the Right Rev. Prelate gave his vi. gorous opposition at one time, but to which afterwards he did give, he presumed, his reluctant consent.— (Hear, hear, and laughter.) The Right Rev. Prelate at that time witldcd a pen not a crosier.—( Laughter.) The R ght Rev. Prelate very soon after the parsing of the Cethr.lic Emancirreim Act—and he (the Ma-quis of Normanby) would not apply to him a pbra:e which he was very apt to apply to her Majesty's Ministers—he would not say " Quoad hoc, ergo proptcr hoc," but certainly he might say, " post hoc," fur the Right Rev. Prelate was allowed sh: r:ly afterwards to give to those who were at the time Members of their Lordships' House the advantage of his presence. —( Great laughter.) Having gone through ell those subjects, he could not help •ayirg that when he was called upon to vote that the ordi nance was unconstitutional, he must call upon their Lordships to take into consideration the legality of the Legislature to which they had given legality, the previous income of the Seminary, and the manner in which the Seminary had been treated by the Crown e‘er t-ince the conquest. He trusted that th it Lordships would not accede to the motion of the Right Rev. Prelate, that they would refuse to throw tho curse of religious discord into a community that, whatever might be its errors, whatever might be the causes which produced civil strife, yet, never theless, had been ale ays singularly remarkable for Chris tian spirit and pea eful piety. He trusted that their Lordships would pause tefore they interfered and advised her Majesty to withhold her confirmati from the ordi nance which was in accordance Is i.h geecral equity, that they would net do that which would interrupt the growing prospeii'y of that colony. He therefore entreated their Lordships to give a decided negative by a large majority to the motion of the Right Rev. Prela•e. Tho Earl of RIPON had listened with great atten tion to the speech of the Right Rev. Prelate, both that night and on the previous occasion, when he presented the petition to the House, but be had not been able to discover the prirc'ple upon which he celled upon the House to in terfere and prevent the ordinance from becoming law.— ( Hear, hoar.) Judging from the speech of the Right Rev. Prelate on the prosentltion of the petition, ho would have supposed that the Rev. Prelate objected upon a principle, viz., that there ought not t exist in any part of the Q leen', dominions anything that could be urged as tending to the support of the Roman Catholic religion. But the 12... v. Pre!at: had himself abandoned that high ground of p;inciple, for be st ted that he was prepared to give up a certain portion of the sums which, under the ordi nance, must fall into their hands. If he gave up any part of those sums he gave up the principle.—( Hear.) But there was one view of the subject which had not been looked ueon, which was, the position of the Sovereign and Parl•ament with respect to colonies obtained by con gees'. If they conquered colonies, and found an estab lished religion existing there different from their own, what were they to do—were they to extinguish it and establ h their own ? He said that justice and policy forbad it.—( Hear, hear.) The policy of England had always been of a tot Illy different description. Common sense must necessarily dictate that they could not first ob tain, and then keep, any colony, if they put such condi- tions upen them as mutt engender eternal discord.— ( Hear, he kr.) When he was in office he found, that ever since the conquest, the Seminary bad praefeally exercised all the powers and authority which it was proposed to give it by the ordinance, and no me, during that wlao'e period, had ever srt up the pin, i ‘ ile that, because they were Roman Catholics, they ought not t, have t hose powers. The only quest . on was whether there ought to be any corporation coiling the tenures of the ci y of Montreal. When he was in offie, he hsd Lean obliged to advert to the procced'ogs authorised by the Earl of Bathurat, Sir George Murray, and M. Huskisson, and he found that not one Gt.verr.ment since the conquest had eve' attempted to put their 1 , gil sight in force, notwithstanding all the opinions of the Law Officers of the Crown. It was a rate in which .as most fit, prudent, nay, he would say, honest, to make a compromise. It was possible that the parties mig',t fail in t defence if they had the whole power of the Crown against them. But the Crown would be placed in a most invidious position if it pursued its claims against them. The Ray. Prelate had talked of their committing a great national crime in e3tablish'ng a Roman Catholic Corpota ion, but he (the Earl of Ripon) would not find anything to reproach his CODSC'Caee with in voting agains the Rev. Prelate. The Duke of WELLINGTON entirely concurred with the latter pa-t of the speech of the Noble Marqui•, that what ever had been done with the great proportion of the property stated by some to belong legally to the Crown, and by others to the Seminary of St. Sulpice, he could never feel other wise than that it had been made over to the province of Canada by the Act of Union—still, although he had thought that, he had never doubted for one moment that ample provision must have been made fur the equitable rights upon that property belonging to the Seminary of St. Sulpice. When he spoke upon the question upon the previous occasion, he confessed that he was not then aware of what had passed upon similar subject while he was in the Cabinet. He had totally forgotten the Vans action of 1822. He was then in the Cabinet, aid must have been a party to all that V. 8.3 done by the Earl of Bathurst with respect to St. Nicolay. He must have been aware of that transaction, but he had totally for gotten it ' and, until he had read the papers upon the sub ject, he had bad no notion that it was of the nature which it eppea-ed to be by the despatch of Lord Bathurst. The Rev. Prelate had eadeavoured to draw a distinction be tween the corporation established by Lord Dalhousie un der the directions of Earl Ba burst, and the corporation which was to be established by the ordinance under consi deration ; and he had made it out to be en ecclesiastical corporation, because it referred to eccleaiastical objects and purposes, He had also endeavoured to make out that St. Nicolay was not an ecclesiastical corporation. Now in his opinion the one was precisely the Paine as the other, and newly in ihe same words.—(Cnee-s. ) He must have beta a patty to the despatch establishing St. Nicolay, and he must a !mit that was an ecclesiastical corporation, established for Roman Catholic objects, and no others. He must c , nfess there were other transactions and letters on the same subjact, at a much later pe-iad, which had escaped his recollection. He was in his Majesty's service in the ye.rs 1834 and 1835. The Noble Earl (the Earl of Aberdeen) who sat by him, then adopted the de spatch of his Noble Colleague in office (the Earl cf Ripon). There was one remark which he (the Duke cf . We'liegton) begged to make on the instructions of his Noble Friend to the Earl of Amherst, and it was this : His instructions to the Earl of Amherst referred to a list of grievances, to the number of ninety-two, which had been brought forward in the Assembly of Lower Canada ; and, adverting to the despatch of his (the Duke of Wel lington's) Noble Friend, the Noble Earl who had just ad- dressed their Lordships directed the removal of one of tho'e grievances. It was impossible that a person who was privy to the instruction could now say that he could not consent to the formation of a corporation of that descrip. lion on account of certain principles which it was quite clear the c not applicable, and had not been applied to Canada for a considerable number of years; therefore he (the Duke of Wellington) certainly felt that he could no' stand upon th ! grounds which he had st ‘ted the other night to their Lordships as the sourc! of his ob jectionto that ordinance, bonus: , of that ordinance he himself had Leen, in two or three iistanees, a party to the direction and arrargernent ; an i it appenrel that e.,ts blishments of the kind had been frequi.nt'y made within the provi nce of Lesver Canada. The Right Reverend Prelate had th a t n i g h t gone at some l engt h i nto t h e con sideration of the ordinance, with relation to the property which had been given to the Seminary of Sr. Sulpice, which amounted in capital -t 6 per cent., to a revenue of 30,0001. a year. (The Noble Duke hero referred to the proceedings of the (, ommissionerr, to show the exact amount of the revenu e and which n i xpenditure of the Semi nary, and the objects for the grant was made ; from which it appeared that educ and religious wor ship were the main objects of the a."on and the remainder 'was to be disposed ofas the Gove4arrn,t, might sanction.) Now, really he (the Duke of \Vela must say that ai l o al . n d st the objects there could be no reasonable objectiong n o c pposite to first set forth. It was for the Noble consider in what way he should remove the i that would arise if the Act ef Parlimernience el er-ride the ordinance; and, taki ng that w should of t'2e matter, ha (the Duke of Wel ingvtioen) thought that the Right Reverend Prelate would have *done better to leave the question to its own difficulties. He might have thus obtained the object desired, and not seek t) enhance the difficulties of the matter by dividing the House upon the question. By dividing the House be could not obtain the objects which be sought. The result of Isis (the Duke of Wellington's) consideration of the docu ments which bad been last brought to h's remembrance, was that he had determined to give his vote that night against the proposition made by the Right Rev. Prelate. The Bishop of EXETER said that he would first take notice of the speech of the Noble personage who had just sat down, and who was entitled to bis first attention on every occasion. However disappointed he (the Bishop of Exeter) was at the vote which the Noble Duke had announced his intention of giving, he did not nish to make the slightest complaint of the inconsistency which anarked that declaration. (The Right Rev. Prelate here entered into statements to show that no comparison could be fairly instituted between the Seminaries of St. Nicolay and St Sul i ce the former of which w as , he con tended, e-tablished for the purposes of general education, the teaching of tbe French, Latin, and English languages, philosophy, mathematics, &c. The latter for the pur poses of spiritual instruction and the cure of souls, and that, he said, constituted an ecclesiastical corporation. }1...! (the Bishop of Exeter) would not divide the House on that night, for by reason of the Noble Duke's declaration, such a proceeding would not settle the question. Noble Lords might call for a division when he sat clown ; but if he was obliged to go below the bar cf that House, and alone, be would have no feeling of shame for himself, but of regret, for the feeling that would be entertained to wards others, who had not accompanied him.—( Hear. ) The Noble Marquis had referred in a buoyant manner— (Laughter) —to Mr. Burke, Lord Chatham, Lord Halifax, and Lord North, with something of a sneer at George the Third.—(" No, no.") He said, " Yes, yes." The Noble Marquis had thought fit to sneer at that Sovereign, whom most of their Lordships revered, and whom be (the Bishop of Eleteq k espeoiellrmered as a most pious and admir able meharelsv.-2.t Hear) But he had the authority of the Nobl ama himself, and of all who sat on the same be°~larid of all who bad served the Sovereign of eatrutry.jethe tame stations since the year 1760, when the ifllicksds....,. t 4 - .A7---seexnettons were sent out to Canada. These inslc‘Sse-sitd'air aribsequently sent out, said it . was the hinedicsicen&o4 itlathduteyr9ofugithcmesOfTruor, at the same time that be of the King's new sub jects, heihould not allow th e consi dered the Established ChUreb, w hichoa Catholic to be the Church of England alone in all ch a racter belonged to Wow. The Noble Marquis referred hi'kul iil.tteitariitiotinoif capitulation. But in the answer to the 34th article, the claims of the ecclesiastics of Sulpice were refused until the Kit g's pleasure should be known. Thu Earl of RA DN 0 R—Read the 32d article. The Bishop of EXETER said that the 32d article re- Lrred only to the nuns. Th Noble Earl might shake his head. The Earl of RADNOR—Read the 32d article. The Bishop of EXETER read the article. It secured to the communities, their constitution, and pr:vilegea. The demand in the 34th article was for a similar immu ity to St. Sulpice, but it was refused until the King's pleasure should be known. The Noble Marquis had read from the Report of Sir C. Grey that there had been several Catho'ic colleges incorporated; and so there might be, but they were lay, not ecclesiastical corpora ti ms. If the Noble Marquis chose to shut his eyes to the distinction, the Noble Viscount (Melbourne) could not be blind to it. [ln explanation of the allusion made by the Noble Viscount to the report of his speech in the Times newspaper, the Rev. Prelate was about to read a letter from the Reporter for that journal, when he was inter rupted by loud cries of " Order" from all parts of t',e House, to which, after a few words from the Earl of Suf folk, who rose to order, he at length gave way.] He would not trespass further on the attention of the House, but be felt great satisfaction at what had fallen from the Noble Duke, that the rejection of his motion would not prevent the further considerA'on of this question. The Duke of WELLINGTON said he had not been understood by the Rev. Prelate. He had used an ar gument, although it might be a bad one. He had said that this ordinance was not at this moment law in Canada; and as it was passed subsequently to the Act of Union (of last year), if it were contrary to anything contained in that Act, a remedy would be found.—( Hear.) The Bishop of EXETER hoped that in that view the Noble Lord near him would consider the subject in the same light which he had presented it.—(Cries of " No, no," from Lord Melbourne ) He only asked the. Noble Viscount to consider whether it was not contrary to law.— ( No. no.) The Marquis of NORM ANBY was sorry t r deprive the Rev. Prelate of the satisfaction which he had derived from the source referred to.—( Hear, and laughter.) But he had already informed the Rev. Prelate that the whole question was submitted to the law officers of the Crown, and their opinion was decidedly in favour of the ordinance. —( Hear, hear.) He had told the Rev. Prelate that he could not find in the Colonial-office any document of his in which he styled any person the Catholic Bishop cf Quebec. Ile asked the Rev. Prelate to name to him the document upon which he founded that charge? The Bishop of EXETER said, if the Noble Marquis had given him notice, be would have brought the docu ment down with him. But he had it not with him now. It was, he belitved, a return of the ecclesiastical esta blishments in Canada, presented by the Noble Marquis in 1;539, in which it was stated that 2,000/. had been paid as the salary of the Roman Catholic Bishop of Quebec. The Marquis of NORM ANB Y said, that was a return annually made to the House of Commons, in which the Bishop alluded to had been always so styled by his (Lord Normanby's) predecessors since the conquest.—(Great laughter on all sides. ) The Bishop of EXETER said the Noble Marquis might laugh, but he would cause him to laugh upon the other side.—( Renewed laughter.) The document was not a re gular annual return. The Marquis of NORMAN BY could not say whether it was cr not, as the Rev. Prelate did not enable him to know anything about it. But the ecclesiastics in question were so styled in all the returns. —( Hear, hear.) The question was then put and the motion was nega tived without a division. The House then Adjourned at Half-past Nine. ROUSE OF COMMONS, MARCH 15. The SPEAKER took the chair at the usual time. On the motion of Mr. STRUTT, the Derby Gas 8.11 was read a second time, and ordered to be com mitted. The Ecclesfield Inclosure Bill was read a second time on the motion of Mr. BUSFIELD. The Collymeston and the Southorpe Inclosure B Ils were read a third time and passed, on the motion of Sir G. CLERK. Sir B. HALL presented petitions from the Direc tors of the poor, and he vestrymen of St. Pancras, against the Middlesex Sessions Bill. On the motion of Mr. H. BERKELEY, the Bristol Gas Bill was read a second time and ordered to be commit' e I. Mr. BAINES moved the second reading of the North Midland Railway BT. Read a second time, and ordered to be committed. Mr. SHEPPARD preented a petition from a num ber of chemists and druggists against the B 11 now before the House for Reforming the Medici' Profession. Mr. G. BERKELEY presented a peetion from Cheltenham to the same effect. Mr. DIVETT presented a petition from the Town Council of the Borough of Newport in favour of the Jews' Decl4ration Bill ; also from a congregation of Protestant Dissenters, complaining of the jurisdiction of the Ecclesiastical Courts, and praying for the release of Mr. Baines, and for the abolition of Church-rates. S.r E. WILMOT presented a petition from War wickshire, praying for some alteration in the New Poor law. Sir BENJAMIN HALL presented a petition from the borough of Marylebone, against the Poor-law Con tinuance Bill. Mr. TOW NELY PARKER, presentea a petition from certain landholders in Laheashire, complaining of the increased expense to which they had been sub j cted by the operation of the New Poor-law Bill, and praying for a return to the ancient system ; also from twenty-s:x Guard'ans of the Union of Preston, against the cent nuance of the powers of the Poor-law Cam missionerF. Mr. EASTHOPE presented a petition from Ket tering, in Northamptonshire, praying for the Abolition of Church-rates ; also a petition from the Baptista of Burton-on Trent, praying for the abolition of Church rates, and the extinction of Ecclesiastical Court, and for the liberation of Mr. Baines. Also petitions from the Protestant Dissenters of Merionethshire, from the Independents of Halidown,: in the county of Salop, from the inhabitants of several places in Derby shire and Devonshire, and from several parishes in Manchester, praying for the abolition of Church rates and the extinction of Ecclesiastical Courts. Mr. SCHOLEFIELD presented a petition from the Mayor, corporation, and inhabitants of Birmingham, in favour of the removal of religious tests being put to persons on enterinz office. Mr. BARNABY presented a petition from Groome, in Staffordshire, in favour of Church Extension. Mr. BAINES presented a petition praying for the abolition of Church -rate;, and of the jurisdiction of Ec clesiastical Courts. Mr. W. DUNCOMBE presented two petitions from Wiltshire and Yorkshire, against certain provi sions in the new Poor-law Bill. Mr. T. DU NCOM BE presented a petition from tower' thousand inhabitatti of Nottingham, compl lining of the illegal conviction of Frost, Williams, and Jones ; a petition from S. Gordon, of Dublin, praying for the release of all political offenders, and from .an individual residing at Doctors'-commons, pray ing the House to adopt the principles of the People's Charter. Mr. lIUME presented a petition from a parish in Middlesex against certain clauses in the Poor-law Bill ; from Eist Budleigh in Devonshire against the County Courts all ; from Ayr praying for the abolition of Church•rates ; from Bridg north, in favour of Medical Reform, and from Mac clesfield, from the Universal Community Society of Rational Religionists, called Socialists, praying for in quiry into their principles. Mr. MORG AN J. O'CONNELL presented 'peti tions from Kerry, and other parts in Ireland, in favour of Lord Morpeth's Irish Registration Bill. Lord HOTHAM presented a petition from the Medical Practitioners of Leinster and Leominster, in favour of medical reform. M , . GILLON presented a petition from the Asso ciate Church of Auchtermuchty, praying for the aboli tion of Courch-rates, and the abolition of the jurisdic tion of the Ecclesiastical Courts ; and a petition from the United Secession Church of Edinburgh, to the same effect. Mr. MACAULAY presented a petition from the Subscribers and D establishment p prese nted Directors - t e l eters-ei the Edi n b urg h S c h oo l o f Arts, prayi ng for nted o a f p a et S it c ia h a rao f l ta o m f Sir JAMES GRA HAM Design. Pembrokeshire against th e Irish Parliamentary voters pr oposed n L ord qualification for Mr. KELLY presented M or p e th' s Bill. Chemists and Druggists of tlelßor ough of Ip sw i c h petition from fou r t een against the Bill b ef o r e the House for Me dical Mr. BOLT presented ON CLIVE a similar peti tion from a place in Herefordshire. The Henley and Dorchester Road Bill was read a second time. Mr. B. WOOD presented a petition from a congre gation of Protestant Dissenters in Devonshire, praying for the abolition of Church-rates. Mr. R. ALSTON presented a petition against cer tain clauses in the Poor law Amendment B:11. Colonel SIBTHORP presented a petition from a parish in Lincoln in favour of Church Exteesipn. Mr. DENISON presented a petition from Farnham, Surrey, against idolatry in India ; also a petition from a place in Surrey, praying that the landlords of small tenements should be liable for tLe payment of rates. Sir J. SEALE presented a petition from Dartmouth, is favdur of the removal of the West India mail sta. 'Qn from Falmouth to that place. Sir J. CAMPBELL presented a petition from the ‘.ord Provost and Council of Edinburgh, on the sub ject of the rc;o:tration of births, marriages, and deaths. Mr. G. WOOD presented a petition from the che mists and druggists mains , . certain proposed alterations of the law relating to medical practice. Sir GEORGE STAUNTON presented a petition from Portsmouth a.;ainst Church-rates. Mr. R. STEWART presented petitions from Had dington and Kincardine against Church patronage in Scotland. Mr. BARNABY gave notie that on to-morrow he tcoul'l move for return s of communications between the Post-office and certain couch-proprietors. Culonel SIBTHORP gave notice that he would trice the sense of the House on the appointmynt of Mr. Vizatd at the lioua.:•offiee. THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY, MARCH 16,1841 On the motion of Sir THOMAS FRE MAN TLE, leave of absence was given to Mr. Thesiger to go the circuit. POOR-LAWS. Col. SIBTHORP gave notice that when the New Poor-law Bill next came on for discussion, he should move that it be read a second time that day six months. Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET said that some returns for which he bad moved so long ago as the 2d of February, had not been laid on the table of the House. Mr. WAKLEY said that as reports had appeared in the newspapers stating that there was an intention to deprive the public of access to the Green-park, he wished to know whether there was any foundation for that statement. Mr. FOX MAULE replied that the statement was totally incorrect. There was no intention either to prevent the public from using the Park or to alter the hours of admission. The arrangements which ha i been mac'e would continue only until the ground was made solid, and the grass sprung up. SOUTH AUSTRALIA. On the motion of Lord J. RUSSELL, the House then went into Committee on the South Australia Acts. 'clic NOBLE Loan then rose to move—That it is the opinion of this Committee, that her Majesty be authorised, by an Act of the present Session of Parlia merit, to guarantee a Loan, not exceeding 210,000/., to be contracted for by the Commissioners for South Australia ' and that p rov i s i on b e ma l e out of the Con solidated Fund of the United Kingdom of Great Bri tain and Ireland, for the payment from time to time of such sums of money as may become payable under such guarantee ; and proceeded to make some observaeions in a tone scarcely audible in the gallery. We understood the Neble Lord to say that the co lony of South Australia was founded by Act of Parliament. Generally speaking, the colonies of Great Britain were under one or two species of govern ment. Tncy were either under a Local Government, consisting of a Representative Assembly, or the general affairs of the colony were under the sanction of the Crown, or else they were colonies under the immediate control of the Crown, which appointed Governors. It was eeliether a Government entirely in the hands of the Commission was not entirely under the control of the Government at home. The provisions of the Act of Parliament specified that there were to be certain Com mistioners, and that, they were to be appointed by the Crown ; and by the Bth section of that Act, the whole of the charges and expenses of the Government of the colony were to be defrayed under and by the direction of the Commis_ionere. That Act was proposed, in the first instance, by certain Members of Parliament and other gentlemen, and contains likewise provisions respecting emigration and the sale of lands. From the very first there seemed to have been very considerable difficulty in construing the Act, and the law officers of the Crown wer e referred to for their opinion on certain portions of it. It appeared from this that the Commissioners were to be considered responsible for the general expenses of the colony, and that they were also to have the direc tion in their hands. From that time it appeared to him practicable to direct to a useful purpose the labours of the colonists. Another difficu'ty arose in consequence of there being a Governor, and also a resident Commissioner for the sale and grant of Crown lands, these two persons holding different notions of their authority, and disputes consequently arose. After a certain period Lord Glenelg and the Commissioners agreed that Captain Hindaearsh could not carry on the affairs of the colony to any useful purpose, and Col. Gave ler was appointed Governor in his stead. On his arrival he found the administration of justice, and every portion of the colonies in a most deplorable state. Subsequently it appeared that the expenditure very far exceeded the revenue of the colony. The expenditure, which at first was about 20,000/. or 30,000/., rose to 80,000/. or 90,000/. a-year, and af terwards to the enormous expense of 120,0001. In July last the Commissioners reported that state ut: affairs, and he immediately said that that rats of expenditure must stop, that the Go vernor must be required to account for it ; and that as the Colony had been founded by Acts of Parliament, he would immediately, at the commence ment of the next Session of Parliament, move for the appointment of a Committee to examine into the whole question of what ought to be done with respect to the Colony. In the month of November, after further representations from the Commissioners, and re presentations of their total inability to pay the bills which were drawn from the colony, he requested the attention of the Treasury to the subject, and they appointed one of the Lords of the Treasury to make a Report to them with regard to the financiel affairs of the colony. A Report was made, and the opinion of the Treasury, as welt as his own opinion, was that in the existing state of the affairs of the colony, it was necessary, if the colony was to be pre• served, that Government should propose to guarantee the parties who were willing to lend their money on secu rity, and that a loan should be proposed for that pur pose. The effect of that declaration did not produce a loan to the colony, but it did quiet the alarm which at the moment prevailed, and induced parties to withhold demands for payment of the expenses that had been incurred till the meeting of Parliament. At the meeting of Parliament, as this was a subject exceedingly complicated in its nature, and as Parlia ment itself by its own Acts protected the colony, he thought it was much better that a Committee should be appointed, of which the several Members might make themselves masters of the whole transac tion, than that he should endeavour to explain the whole of the affairs of the colony to the House, and to adopt his opinion, because it had appeared to him that a demand for inquiry was certain to be made which it would not be possible to resist. He had no hesitation, however, in stating in what respect he thought the Acts re lating to South Australia were defective—in what re spect they had contributed to the present state of affairs in the colony, and what was the general course by which Parliament should be guided, without saying what particular provisions should be made in legislating for the future in regard to this colony. The first Act relating to South Australia, was, as he conceived, founded on two general principles, one of them he thought an exceedingly sound and useful principle—a principle which had been acted upon before, to a certain degree, and which had been acted upon since to a much larger degree ; viz., the principle that uncultivated public lands in a colony, instead of being, as in former times, granted in very large proportions to individuals without the means of cultivating them, should be sold at a cer tain price, and the price thus obt lined should be employed in sending labourers to the market—( Hear) and so induce people of capital to come forward in aid o f the colony, and at the same time supply labour, so necessary for the progress of the new colony. So far as that principle was embodied in the South Austra. lien Act he conceived that Parliament acted wisely in enacting it. But it appeared to him that at the same time they hail adopted another principle that was far more doubtful, and in his opinion it was one that could not be carried out suc cessfully in the colony of South Australia. That prin ciple was that the colony was to be what was called self supported ; that the whole of its expenses, administra tive, judicial, and otherwise, was to be de frayed without any demand being made upo n th e mother country. It w as pr o p ose d that this should be done by two modes ; first, by the revenue received in the colony, and second, by the means afforded by the emigration fund. Now he did not think that it was probable that the revenues of the colony could be able to pay the expenses that must naturally occur in a new colony. In a small colony of course the expenses of justice, &c., must be as great as in one that was six times larger, therefore the principle was not a sound one. In the second Bill there was a provision that certain loans might be made • upon the faith of the emigration fund, with a proviso that at the end of the year not more than one-fifth of the whole sums received from the sale of land should be owing from the revenue fund. The obvious consequence of that was that the colony was to be sup ported by loans. The intention was that although at certain times such loans were to be paid, yet there were to be large sums constantly borrowed, which were to defray the ordinary expenses of the colony. Now there were various ways in which such a provision might be attended with dangerous results. In the first place so long as such loans were allowed, while the extent to which they could be raised was not defined, the local Government had not a sufficient cheek not to enter into needless expenditure. In the next place the plan went on the supposition that there was almost an inexhaustible amount of loans, and that the sale of lands would every year realise a certain sure. s ß our u c t re i : pfo :a rii s nnsa i t m ai p nl o aca s ern :ble to calculate the profit which would btereeedaoetriileevxeepdnelfrom such a source. In the third place, diffi culties may overtake the colony at its commencement, do a u s rttshh,ee whichneeocleosnsyi mightfiorh thnb a repellingattended enemies, sdeedm ewa inths Zs.:;rassed ; so that the pr g opose y d system could no longer be carried into effect. Th ere was a l so in the secon d Act a provision, which was in it se lf very danger ous or totally impracticable. It said that there were to b e l oans on the emigration fund, but that t ra 3 t atlice.oernticilinofamtlniennyte.ar tNhoewmotini:y to he repaid . up h means freshto repaylo n t v t:e o am n s w; the ns assumption Commissioners ih enextp i ll might (l a the Capsetiolansttlaututttulmie it r n e , ei gw: ig uo h lnd t i b bn e ecu f n o rl u eri nd impossible, t r comply with the provision s of the Act. When they had exhausted the eiergratio n f und they had no re source for making fresh loans, and th e i r credit would have to two things—first, the revenue of the colonies, and then the expenditure , which migh t b e o uldfallen. look w The persons who could l end the money 100,0001., while the revenue was but 20,0001. That would be nu inducement to them to lend their money. _ They might next inquire into the fut ure resources of the colony which might be found inadequate to the dernand son it. He had now stated in what manner those embarrass ments of the colony had arisen. He thought those embarrassments were derived from the Acts of Par liamentgoverned: He regretted very mach that that by which that colony wi wa u.ch s he 00eattiered sound principle, namely, the sale of lands at a certain price, and the application of the sums arising from those sales—either in whole or in part—to the purposes of immigration—that so sound a principle shoull not meet with approbation. The Act to which he ha I referred had other provisions, which he thought were ruinous to the financial affairs of the colony. But while he stated that with regard to the finances of the colony—while he certainly would not express any strong opinion on the subject, ho would say there were resources in the colony which would fur ' nish means of paying off all the liabilities of the colony. It was a colony which, even at the present period, contained very cosiderable.resources with much industry, and with a considerable appearance of exertion, and it would, he was convinced, if it was sup. ported by Parliament, get out of the difficulties which had arisen around it. He did not think that Parlia ment ought to agre r in the continuance of the present s} stem. He had very great doubts whether :hey ought to rase any money for the purposes which the Committee approved of-56,0001, which it was pro posed should be applied to immigration ; however the Committee had adopted that course, and his (Lord John Ituseell's doubt was rather whether it was not better to hold an inquiry into what was preferable to adopt, than to make such an effort now. In proposing that they should relieve the colony from its financial embarrassments, it was not perhaps necessary that he should state his opinions as to the manner in which the col on y s h ou l d be in future governed—( Hear, hear)—but he bad no hesitation in stating that he thought the principles of Government which were applied to the other cclanies shoal I be applied to it. That making what provisions they thought proper respecting the sale of land, and the application of the money derived therefrom, he was of opinion that the provision s which placed the coritrol in the hands of the Commi ss i oners , and not under the control of the Tr easury, should be repealed. He thought if the Crown had anything to do with relieving it from its present embarrassments, it sliculd have a direct control in the appointment of its executive and government ; that the correspondence between the Governor and the Secretary of State— ( Hear, hear)—and that with respect to all financial statements and demands—that these questions, as in the case of the old col mies, should be referred to the Treasury, and that they should express their opinion upon it to the Secretary of State before any steps vs ere taken--(Hear, hear.) He could see no thing but mischief ;if that anomalous kind of govern ment, in which the Crown had no apparent discretion, leaving in fact every thing to the Commissioner=, was permitted to exist. If the House thought the Govern meat of South Australia should be represented— although that was not his opinion —ha should be realy to give his assent to it. He thought the other suggestion the most advisable one—(Hear, hear)—and he feared that every succeeding year would only in crease the difficulties that would arise if they de parted from all those ancient principles on which the colonies of that country had flourished. The No ble Lord concluded by snoring his resolution. Lord STANLEY said the Noble Lord had stated very correctly that in the Committee to inquire into the Acts rasting to South Australia, and to consider the propriety of advancing a sum of money, very little diffe rence prevailed on one point, namely, that what ever step it might be advisable to take, should be communicated to Parliament with the least possible delay. He (Lord Stanley) had stated his opinion that the subject WAS one which could not properly be referred to the consideration of a Committee, but one in which the responsibility'of administering relief under its financial embarrassments, and of bringing forward a plan for an alteration of the present system of government rested principally upon her Majesty's Government. Upon that subject so strongly did the Committee feel, that although it was true a report had been issued, recommending the advance of certain sums, yet that was accomp tnied by a resolution placing the whole responsibility of the proceedings in the hands of the Government. Tnat was carried not only by no large majority, but by the casting vote of the Chairman, he being a Member of her M ijesty's Government, and two other members of the Government voting in favour of the recommendation. He entertained the opinion then, and he still adhered to it, that ;t was not the duty of the Government to throw such a question loosely before the Committee, but that corning down to Parliament on their own responsibility, they should state the course they. proposed to adopt, and afterwards tike the opinion of a Select Committee. As to details which could not be conveniently discussed in that House. He remained of the same opinion still, that it was the duty of her Majesty's Government to come down to Parliament not only w th the proposal to relieve the embarrassments of the Colony, but also with a definite proposal as to tire alteration which their experience suggests to them ought to be male. He quite concurred with the Noble Lord in his con demnation of the so-called self-supporting principle. He had always been of opinion that that principle was founded upon erroneous calculations. Ile felt bound to say that the original Act was introduced most hastily, and passed without that deliberation to which it was entitled. When he had the honour of filing the office of Colonial Secretary, he had en tered his protest against the plan of govern ing a colony by Commissioners, the responsibility rested then upon no one. He quitted office in May, and almost the next day his successor was pressed hardly to agree to a Bill which he (Lord Stanley) had Lever seen, yet it was alleged that he had agreed to it, and that Bill was agreed to. The colony was formed, and all that had taken place was perfectly natural—the bubble burst, and the self-supporting principle was blown to shreds. What was to be expected from a colony the expenditure of which was 140,0001. a year, while its revenue was not more than 20,0001.—a colony whore the Government House, upon a sanctioned authority, was built at an expense of 24,0001.—a colony where 22,0001. was spent upon making if road to a harbour, which was badly chosen in the first in stance— a colony where the land which was originally sold at 123., was afterwards sold at 5001., 1,0001., even 1,500/. an acre—a colony in which a body of po lice complained of inadequate pay while receiving 1/. I9e. a week, they complainin g of the expense they were put to in cleaning their white trowsers and white gloves—(Hear, hear)—a colony into which had been introduced all the conveniencies and luxuries of a set tled state while it was still in the state of a wilderness ? What wAs the result? Why, that there were not 200 acres of land under tillage for the suppont of the colony. Inst rad of the first settlers directing their attention to defraying the expenses of their own maintenance, by the cultivation of the soil the whole of their subsistence was derived from England or from the colonies. There was scarcely an acre tilled by them for their own support ; and the whole of the colonists were occapi el with specu lations and land jobbing. He asseated to the pri-ciple of the propriety of having the land sold applied to purposes of emigration. But they should not fix on a uniform price. He thought that the facility of obtaining land in the colonies had the mischievous tendency of leading the population to disperse iself over the country, and occupy more land than they could manage. In order to obviate that inconvenience, he thought that they should impose such a price on land as would prevent large tracts from being monopolised by parties who could not make upon it a sufficient outlay. Let them not allow any parties to occupy land, without any reference to the general interests of the community, or at an insufficient price. Let it not be granted, for instance, at a pound an acre, while it was worth thirty or forty shillings. That was throwing away the revenues of the colony in a way which the founders of the system had never contemplat Al. Every precaution should be taken to direct the attention of the colonists from land-jobbing and land speculations, whirls were the sources of the difficulties in which many of the colonies were now placed. (Hear, hear, bear.) The Noble Lord stated his intention, without reference to the recommendation which the Committee may have made, and very properly stated his intention to bring for ward his own measure for the alteration of the Act in that respect in which he considered it defreient. The Noble Lord here proceeded to show that the manner in which the emigration fund was raised gave rise to unlimited credit, and, in consecpienee, to unlimited exeeaditure. The result was unlimited bankruptcy. He (Lord Sian ley) prrfi cdy concurred in the general principles and views which the Noble Lord laid down for the future manage ment of the colony, but he thought that before the Noble Lord called on that House to vote large sums of money for that colony, without holding out any recurity or pro spect of repayment, he ought to embody those views in a measure which he should submit to the House, and in which he would give the details and provisions of that Act which he said he would introduce. He did not know whether it was the Noble Lcrd's intention, immediately after that resolution was passed, in the ignorance of the state of the colonies in which the majority of the House was, that the Commissioners should go into the market, and raise th e l oan propose d. Much as he (Lord Stanley) desired to see an end of the difficulties of that colony, he did not think that the Noble Lord was entitled in the present state of information on the subject to call upon the House t sanction such a pr oceeding. He (Lord Stanley) would b e sorry to negat i ve the propositions of the Noble Lord, but h e must say t h at it was not right for Government to call on that House to sanction a grant of money:without giving, in the form of a Bill,the measures which they intend to introduce on the subject. While they were called on to advance a loan, they did not know on what principles the colony was her. after to be conducted, or what security they were likely to have for that loan, and how Government proposed to meet any financial difficulties that might ari e. He would advise the Noble Lord to consent that the Chairman do report progress, and post pone the p-esent measure for a week or so, that the House might fairly consider the exigencies of the colony, and would not call on the House to pledge itself to vete `210,000/. in the present state of information on the subject. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that be brought forward this question and had it referred to a Committee, because the colony deprecated delay above all things, aid he con sidered it the duty of Government to bring forward some measure on the subject with the least possible delay. Sir ROBERT PEEL said that the difficulty might be settled if the Noble Lord would state upon the reso lution pas,ing that he would postpone raising the money. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, so far as the Government were concerned they had no other wish than to meet the &aims of the colony, and the parties connected with it, Lord HOWICK said that these parties who had ad vanced morey on bills drawn on the Treasury by the au thorities appointed under the Act of Parliament, had every reason to he:ieve that these persons were authorised to draw those bills, and under tho e circuinstacecs the bills must be paid, but it was important that they should be paid without delay. It seemed to him that by taking the course suggested by his Noble F iend opposite there would be a considerable delay. What he (Lord Howick) would suggest was that it was desirable that the Com mittee should now assent to the resolution proposed, and that that resolution he reported, and that Government, hosing the authority from the House, would then be en• aided at once to raise the loan, and they could altar wards have as much time as Naas requirsd to meet the immediate difficulties of the colony.—( Hear.) It appemmd to him that that would be a course which would most completely meet both what was due to the interests of pm i• ate parties in the colony, and what was dueto the II muse and the country, which was interested in the ad v mace of the public money. hi many of the views of the Noble Lord he fully concurred, aid in others be certsioly differed. It eppsared to him, however, that they were bound to provide for the immediate and pressing financial necessities of the colony, and he should, therefore, support the motion of the Noble Lord. Mr. HU rT said the Noble Lord (Stanley) had thought proper is attack the persons who had acted as Commis si mama, and were inte: . e tad in the management of the c loney. Now the had r etc rhe and more rash or un founded statements than tie Noble Lord hal made to the House. He had spoken of their extravagance in the tronagerneit of the finances of the colony, and charged them with having attached to it a fictitious prosperity. He (Mr. Hutt) uverly dcnie 1 the truth of these state ment -3, and he regretted the Noble Lord had not bad mere regard for his station and charac'er than to hazard such assertion?. Having been connected with the Com mis.i mers of South Austra.i a, he truste'i the House would indulge him fm a fes moments, while he stated a few fat's connected with that colony to the 11. use. Hitherto it had not cost the Government at home siapenc —( hear. ) It had no share %abates', rin the expenditure cf the public locals, and it was neither a naval nor a military state me.—( Hear, hear.) It contained a population of 15,000, many of whom, as the Noble Lord ha I stet d, exhibited early indication of activity and good conduct ; and although it hal been in existence as a co lony only four years, it contained a larger amount of stock than New South Wales after it had been thirty years a British colony.—( Hear, he a r.) H e nee d not take up the ti me o f th e House by referring to the many public works of importance which had been already un dertaken by the Commissioners, although they had en tered upon their functions under circumstances of great and unprecedented dilicelty. After four years of the performance of their duty, they ha I been disbanded by the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Calonies. He did not cesnplain of that, but he could state to the Committee that since then the saes of lind which had been every year progressing had gone back ; emigration had ceased, and the capitalists, who had been in the habit of e.nbarking their money in the Colony, had no longer speculated; then came these untoward bils, which alone would have been sufficient to produce considerable incorvenieace. The Commissioners did not raise the money to pay them off as they should have done, in his opinion, till the Colony had lost its credit, and then they tried when it was too late. Under these circumstances the Noble Lord came down to the House to propose a loan, and he trusted the House, considering the security it was obtaining, would sanction the motion. Mr. M'KINNON having been one of the C ammission• era, felt it his duty fo say a few wcrele. The Han. Mem ber who had last spoken had stated that the colony had been progressing ti'l the Noble Lord had removed the C rnmissi 'ners, and in saying that it appeared to him that this Han. Member had conveyed a stronger censure upon the Noble Lard than anything that had been sai I on that si le of the House. He thought that all the evils of the present state of things arose from the appointment of the salaried Commissioners. As a proof of that he would mention that in 1839, under the old system, fifty thousand acres of land had been sol I at the rate of a pound per acre, while in the year 1840, under the Commissioners, there wet e sold only 7,400 acres, and of these 4,000 bad hem contracted for by a gert'emsn in Ireland. Me V. SMITH denied the justice of attributing to the new Commissioners the grievances of the colony. The evils were really owing to the ombarrassments, nhich were the necessary consequence of the system preciously pur sued, and especially to the number of bills which had been issued by Colonel Gaoler, and which it was afterwards necessary to meat. He did not think any further delay was advisable, and the Noble Lord opposite (Lord Stan ley) had himself, on a former occasion, in•isted that by postponing some measure far settling the question they would only aggravate existing evils. Her Msjesty'y Go vernment had been ceesured for not taking upon them selves the responsibility of relieving the colony from its &amities instead of submitting them to a Co nmi.t.m. The a Cason why they ha f not dame so was that the colony was an anomalous creation of Parliament itself, and they thought the matter should, ther fore, be referred to Par liament. If the re-payment of this c migration fund would set the colony afloat:it ought to be applied. Persons unae (painted with the peculiar formation of the colony hal em barked their property, and they would be ruined it Parlia. ment did not interfere. NotwitintanOing the great em barrassments of the colony, ye', compared with other colonies, he did not consider that it would be a dear bargain at that price. The ex penditure of Western Australia in 1834, was 25,413/. That colony had at that tim e a p opu l at i on not exceeding 2,000 ; whilst in S mush Australia, there was already a population of 15 000. On tbo whole, therefore, he thought the . propeets were not very discouraging. The Right Hon. Gentleman then concluied h reading some extracts from the correspondence of Colonel Torrens, and explanatory of the conduct of the Colonial Secretary with respect to the payment of the Commissioners' salaries. Sir R. PEEL said he wished that course to be taken which would prosi le far the exigencies of the colonies, and, at the same time, prevent additional expense at a future time. But was the proposal made of this kind ? His Noble Friend had given no opi ion adverse to time loan, but had merely said that it was the duty of the House, when contracting liabilities to provide a loan to Lave distinct information on what footing the Government of the colony was in future to be placed. Were they sure that 220,000/. was all that would be required ?—( Hear, hear.) The principle involved in the loan was more cx. tensive. Suppose the estimate should be a fallacious one, could they limit their advance to that sum ; would not the Noble Lord bring forward a supplemental es imaec, and, on the same principle as the first loan, call upon them to contract a second ?—t Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentle man informed the House that Colonel Torrens was the first to denounce the principle on which the colony was founded, and thought the scheme was a total fai lure. He (Sir Robert Peel) confessed his confi dence in Colonel Torrens's opinion was a good deal when he heard this and read the Report of Colonel Tor rens delivered in July 1840, in which he said (p. 11, 4th Report) the unexampled prosperity of South Australia had excited an envious spirit of hostility in persons interested in promoting emigration to other settlements. But now the lion. Gentleman said a new light had broken in upon Colonel Torrens, and that he thought the experience of this colony should be a warning to others not to found a colony on the same principles. Now, was it not a reasonable proposition, if a Isms were asked under these circumstances, to ask the principles on which the colony was hereafter to be founded ? Distinct information ought to he conveyed to the House in the shape of a Bill on the subject. Two Governors had been already removed, aid was not this with the Report of the Treasury, a Parliamentary ground for inquiry? Were they not conclusive reasons why the Noble Lord should inform them of the intention of Govern ment? The time was come when it was necessary to alter both time territorial division and the form of the Constitution. They were bound to make provision for the wants of these 15,000 people, who, in embarking their capital, could not he supposed to enter into all the minutia connected with the formation of the colony. He would suggest a course which he thought would reconcile the two objects which they had in view, namely, the desire to have some assurance from Government that the colony should, in its future governmetu, be placed upon a better foundation, and, at the same time, meet the pressing exigency of the case. He proposed that the questi an of a loan should be postponed for a short time,but that the Government should, to-morrow or the next day, or at as early a period as possible lay upon the table of the House an esti mate of the expenses actually incurred, and of bills due, for which provision must be made, and that the Govern. ment should come forward and propose t o take just so much as required by the exigency —( Hear, hear.) Even in point of economy it would be unwise to delay the payment of just demands. They would eventually have to pay not only them but the incidental expenses which would have occurred. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER wished to know how the Hon. Baronet proposed to make the advance? Sir ROBERT PEEL slid that his proposition wa to take the bills due and to give the Government the power of at once granting a loan. Lord J6E-IN RUSSELL slid that before he addressed himself to the proposition of the Hon. Baronet he must ex press his surprise at the course which had been taken by the Nobl' Lord. He had certainly thought it right on a subject of this kind that there should be a Committee. The Under Sec-etary of State had stated to the House, on the part of the Government, that the -e were two things which would be kept in view, one, the relief of those persons who required it, and the other, to pl lee the Colony under the control of the Crown. In the Committee on this subject the Noble Lord hai proposed a resolution to the effe3t, that delay in adopting measures for relief could not but tend greatly to aggravate the evil, and yet the Noble Lord proposed a course which must lea Ito delay. Had he ( Lord John Russell) brought forward a Biel on the sub jcet, the relief might have been retarded by opposition on that (the Ministerial) side of the House. With regard to the proposition just made, lie thought that it quite met the ex'g ncies of the case. lo whici cv.r shape the relief was administered, it would be eqnally sati4actory to the parties. Lord STANLEY rose to explain. He had objected, and did still object to del ty, hut he did not see how that was inconsistent with what he had proposed, namely, that they should be put in possession of the views which her Majesty's Government entertained wi,h regard to the future Government of the colony. The Noble Lord should have brought forward his Bill at the commencement of the session; and he ought not to have been influenced by the liar of opposition from ciihtr side of the House. It wns t his (Lord Stanley's) fault that no Bill had been laid before Parliament, and that the Government had endea voured to throw that burden upon the Committee which properly belonged to t'-e executive. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, Cie, there never was a case in which Government bad shown less anxiety to throw off responsibility. So far from shrinking, his Noble Friend, when he moved for a Committee hail distinctly stated what measures the Go vernment intended to propose. If they had come to the House with a Bill, objections would doubtless have been made to that course of proceeding,._-(1./cer, bear.) The government would thou have been OtC'etlied of Inking upon themselves an undue authority. An ie stance of that kind occurred the other day. , Upon the Government proposing an increase in the navy expenditure on their own responsibility, the Hon. Member for Stamford contended that the proper course would have been to send it to a Committee.—(Hear, hear.) On the whole he thought the course taken by the Noble Lord was most unfair to the Government. Mr. GROTE said he was one of those who supported the Bill for the formation of this colony, and notwith standing what had been said he must await the result of further inquiry before he would be prepared to say that it was a failure.—( Hear, hear.) He quite agreed in the opinion which Lad been expressed that de'ay would in crease the mischief, and that Parliament would ev ntuallt be called upon to interfere to a much greater extent. The House must not forget that the quantity of ca2ital now in that colony amounted to not less than 2 500,0001. of property—that there was a vast quantity of cattle, 180,000 sheep, and 15,000 head of other cattle, and in no other colony had the stream of enterprise and indust ial labour flowed in so rapidly as in that of South Australia.---( Hear, hear.) There was nothing extraordinary in the circum stances under which the colony had came forward to ask the aid of the mother country in a pressirg exterce. If the question was divested of that party feeling and sprit which he regretted to see displayed in the course of the discussion, they were all of one mind as to tie mein pie eidle on which the loan was sought, and the necessity of conceding it. The Committee would recoll-ct Oat there were a large number of bills drawn by the Governor upon the colony lying dishonoured. A vessel was about to sail for the colony next week, and it war most impor tant that it should be known there as spe nilly as possible that there was no intention to delay for an indefinite period the reli f which was so much required, otherwise they would throw back the prosperity of the colony for a long period, and that would be productive ultimately of the greatest inconvenience and mischief. L r I ELIOT, as a member of t're Committee, felt it light to say that ho understood it to be the general opinion that the immediate intcrpositi m of Parliament was absolutely necessary.---( Hear, hear.) He had heard as i h regret, tint uneni sgled with surpri e, the speech of his Noble Friend near him—( Loud liughter)—and he must say that in his opinion, although there was a difference of opinion i s the CAutnittee as to the extent of the responsi hi of the Government, there was no difference. as to the necessity of Parliamentary interposition.—( Hear, hear.) It app, aced to him that delay in the present case would be extre.nely prejud:cial.—( Hear.) The Committee would recol!ect thet bills to a large amount, which had been dishonoured, were still lying in the hands of the rne,.chaats t ) whom they had been transferred. If these tells were returned to the colony dishonoured the result woul Ibe to paral)se its energies—it would lead to disas re-, and plunge them into irretrievable ruin. It was, therefore, absolutely necessary that no delay should take. place.—( Hear.) He reg - ened that his Noble Fr i end had found it necessary t ) express any opinion upon the pro cce of the Commissioners, or to indulge in any un c for and unneresea-y censure on the sound and judi.., cious principle of self-supporting colonie . .—( He et, hear. ) The Not,le Lord appcare I to f.,rger that the principle which the United States filet started was a self-supportiag one; aid although Colonel Gswler was not present to defend himself, all must admit thst it was to his misma nagement the subseque, t disaqsrs of the colony might be traced. He admitted that a large sum had been laid out for public works, but thet was a sum whica the Govern ment would ultimately have no reason to regret. He did Int think that country would suffer any great or permanent loss by the loan, be even if it. did there were few of the Australi in cclenies that had been acquirAl at so small an expense. Mr. PARKER said that he had endeavoured to make as fair a Report as he possibly could for his Rtht Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He did not be lieve there were any material errors in it. After a few wont: from Me G. W. H OPE, Mr. DIVETT srid it must he obvious to all that there had been some error committed in the financial manage ment of the colony, but he believed full value had been received for all thet had been expended, notwithstanding the want of discretion which the Governor had displayed. It appeared to him that the resources of the colony had teen very much underrated. He had seen letters from farmers who had emigrated from his part of the country, in which it was stated that the land was of the very finest description, and he believed that the nuns ter of emigrants would be much greater if they only knew bow prospeious these farmers and labourers a. e e after a twelve months' residence. lie had Hole doubt that in a very few years that colony would be the emporium of a great part of Australis. Under these eircumst mug, he trusted that there would be no opposition to the motion of the Noble Lord The resolution was aco withdrawn, and the Report or dered to be received on Friday. ORDNANCE ESTIMATES—REPORT. Sir H. VIVI A isl movel that the Report of ;112 Com mittee of Supply on tie Ordnance Estima`.es be re;:eiv,3, 4 . Captai.i BOLDER() roi:e to call t'.e attention of the House, and the Master Genet - oil of the Ordnance, to the expense incure I Gre a Britain in furniJhing arms, &e., to the Grand Signior. In 1840, the sum taken for Ordnance stores was 207,0001., whila the estimate for the pr3sent year was 328,000/., making a d ffcreace of 121,0001. on acfnunt of that one item. What was the sum now required by the GGvernment ? 241,000/., while the eve - age for the years 1831, 1835, and 1836, had been 65,000/., and the House was in total igno rance of the cause of so large an expenditure. It was de sirable that the Howe should know thi.. He supposed it would be t - a'd, a great part of it was ii,carred in support ing our policy in Syria. He found that the Sultan had been - supp!ied with 24,000 stand of arms for the Syrians. He thought, considering the awrice aid assistance that had beer. rendere 1 to him, tire Sultan should pay a portion of the expenses. It argot be said this was ti - ,e policy of a nation of shopkeepers, hut the great !nen who termed us so, never assisted a foreipt power and tow his own subjects to pay fir it. We had the largest fleet in the Mediterra nean th a was ever in that sea, and the expense of it :could fall entirely upon onrselees. Our expenses were upwards of a million, at the most mederwe calculation. Suppose one fleet had been destroyed what would have been the consequence ? Here they went on year after year increasing expense ; and, as far as he knew, to no purpose, and for no cause or objet - . He th )ught the House ought to be infot med on these subjects, and he should, therefore, move for a return of the correspondence be tween the Government and the Porte with respect to the expenses of the lite operations in Syi ia. Sir H. VIVIAN sail he should confine his answer to the Hon. Gentleman to 'subjects immediately conccted with his own dei.artment. lie had no hesitation in saying tha , , in the last few years, the expenses of that depart ment had greatly increased ; and if the Honourable Gen tleman had ben in the House a few nights ege, he would have heard the causes explained. One great item was the adoption of percussion caps. With re spect to the Ordnance expenses in the Syrian expedition, the Sultan had been furnished with 24,000 stand of arm', with a propottiot,ate quantity of ammunition, which he was to pay for. fie should tilt enter into any diicussinn as to the policy of Oat expedition, but he pleiged himself that if the Hon. Gentleman should bring forward a specific motion on the subject, some one of h:s colleagues would be prepared to justit'y it. 'There was no objection to the motion. EAST INDIA 'RUM BILL. Mr. BERNAL brought up the Committee on the Easi India RA:a BA Mr. L A BOUCHERE said, in consequence of what had bee.► said of some ambiguity in the wording of the Bill, he hal consulted some persons competent t ) form an opinion en the subject, and though they thought the clauses as they stood were sufficient, they thought there would be no objection to the introduction of other words. He therefore proposed in the preamble after the word " charter" to insert the words " into which the importation a foreign sugar is or shall be hereafter prohibited," and ,fter Cie word " any" to insert the word "such." If, these ameadinents were adopted, the 2d clause would become 3urptusage. Mr. GOULBURN said be thought it would still be necessary to retain the second clause. Mr. LABOUCIIERE said he did not think so; but it might stand if de iced. He now came to what he con- ceivea to be a more important point. He had stated on a former occasion that he conceived it was important wh?ther in point of fact sugar was made in the East Indies to any cxt2nt worth not re from aiy eti.er mat rial but the sugar cue. Judging from the evidence before the East India Committee, he was led to believe that all sugar exported was bona fide the produce of the sugar cane, and that in limiting it to that, they were doing ill that the East Indians asked. But it was stated that at Ben- gal, if they excluded sugar made frets- the date they would make the Bid of no avail. He had taken pains to be informed of tho foes of the n:so, and be lieved there was some exaggeration in saying that if they excluded the date there, and only admitted the produce of the sugar-cane, they would not confer a great benefit. He understood that in 13enares the date trees bore no fruit, and that all sugar made there was the produce of the sugar-cane; but in Bengal Proper the date trees grew in great numbers, and sugar was made indiscriminately from the da e and the sugar-cane, and the nature of the manu facture was such that it would be impossible to tell whether the sugar was made from the one or the other. lle was confident that whenever sugar was imported from Indic it would be date-tree sugar as well as sugar the produce of the cane. On these grounds, and believi.'g. as he did, that the date-tree sugar was even now int: o- ..-- duced into this country, and that it was impossibl e t o . dis tinguish it from the other, and wishing to afford encou ragement to the growth of sugar of every kind in he felt he was only acting according to sound principles in assenting to the proposed alteration. He would, there fore, move that the words " or sugar of the date-tree" be introduced into the clause. Mr. HAWES thought the West Indies should have no protection of any kind which was not granted to the East Indies. He felt that these latter colonies were much more valuable and important than the other. Mr. G 0 ULBURN would not oppose the motion for the introduction of date-tree suga , .. The amendment having been agreed to, and the' Re lort reccivod, the Bill was ordered to be rea I a third time t - :- marrow. MUTINY BILL- The Report on the Mutiny Bill was brought up, and the Bill was ordered to be re id a third time to-rnLrrow. The Report on the Marine Mutiny Bill was brought up, and the Bill was ordered to be read a third time to morrow. Mr. BERNAL brought up the Report of the Com mittee of Ways and Means for a grant of 8,000,0001. out of the Consolidated Fund, for completing the estimates.— Agreed to. REGISTRATION OF VOTERS (SCOTLAND) BILL. Lord J. RUSSELL, caving moved the second read ing of this Bill, Sir W. RAE said that theugh he had objections to the details cf the Bill, he would not oppose the motion for the second reading. He did not in particular approve of the Court of appeal tahich it was proposed to establish, snd of the appointment of the Judges, by the Speaker of the nailit. of Coitraohi, MORNING EDITION ; fo ' The LORD ADVOCATE defended the previs• °ll the Bill ; b u t sa id t h at h e wou ld b e h ap py to receive S a g e_eLtions 'n Committee for its improvemeet. The Bill was then read a second time, and or: t ° be committed that day fortnight. DRAINAGE OF LANDS. Mr. HANDLEY move d th e secon d reading of t b C Dr,:ite,ge of Lands Bill. Colonel SIBTHORP regretted that a Bill of go much importance had been irtroduced at a late piried RS the last Session, and he had t a k e n care to watc h progress, knowi:l tint an attempt would be made t° smuggle it through. It had, of c ourse, ben def eated ' and as he considered the present measure equally n • chievous read dangerous, he should give it every ePP °si r tion in hi; power. Nothing was more prepos terous ° unconstitutional than to give power to a sur;eyor g° upon a gentleman's pr o p er ty w i t h w h ee lbarrows and o ° l other necessary implement, and by Heavens if any 50; veyor came upon his [ro p e ty h e s h ou ld take crle to u an a - gurnent that would presesnt his repea:ing the VI S ; namely, the argunicatuni ad baculinurn.--( A lougl" f He complained of the Bill, because it establist 01 a set : Commissioners, who w er e a set o f men for whom the a cordial hatred. It was a grass job—it might g.t Hon. Memb,_r some d egree o f p o p u l ar ity in hi: c oun.l o , where he k n e w it was not wanted. There was not elln clause that was not pr ov idi ng f ora gross in:e,l,rence wit, property. H e m ove d th a t t h e Bill be rea d a second 'tiro that day sizenonths. Mr. GRANTLY BERKELEY, in second;og ° ; e ; tion, could not agree i n a ll th e arg um e nts us ;d by t Hon. and Gallant Member for Lincoln. He would }of; no objection to the Bill, if the mover of it wouli leave 0 1 the county of Glou ce st er . —( A l aug h ) It was not wa nt° in that county—therefore he must give it his opposit iom ._, Mr. DARBY oppos e d the Bill as b e i n g too gross anon o vasion of the rights of privee property. Ha hoped, Bill, consideration, the Hon. M e mb er wo uld withdraw the for it was iniquitous in principle. Mr. W. MILES felt himself bound to oppose the because he thought the present law was more aceeptio'd to the courery. If the Hon. Member would except the lands under the Commissioners of Sewers, he would nor port the Bill ; if not, he must oppose it. Mr. HANDLEY said the last was the unkindest eui, of all, for the [lon. Member for Sereerset was a s ort .: godfather to :ho first Bill, and u p to a late period was t ee warm supporter. However, in answer to hi m and te., Hon. Member for Gloucestershire, he would say that, the people is their counties were so well pleased wit il their Sewer Courts, h e wou ld say that th er° were no provisions in the Bill forcirg it upon the t % So valuable were the general principles of the mea sure 4 the eyes of the Government that they had adopted raaelL its Frevisions in the Bill which they had introduced. 7 r Irelaed, with the approbati o n o f Members of all par" s He thought th it any def e ct s i n th e measure might be bl e remedied in Corarniree. He trust Ml , that as the princill.'„ of the Bill had been : T r ee d t o on f ormer o ccasions , t°' El oise would not then oppose its second reading. The House then divided, when the numb: rs were For the motion For the amendment.. Majority —l2 be The B:11 was then read a second time and ordered to . 31 commice.l. COUNTY BRIDGES BILL. wa. The Bill went throu g h C omm i tter , an d the Re port ordered to be received on Friday next. A Ite' The Report o f the C omm it tee on t h e L e ase nn lease Bill, was brought up and agreed to. CRIMINAL LAW (SCOTLAND). Jai The LORD ADVOCATE postponed, till th at fortnight, his mo ti on f, r l eave to bring in a Bill to alae the criminal law in Scotland. MONUMENT TO SIR WALTER SCOTT' • Sir W. RAE m ove d th a t l eave he given to bring 1.- , 10 Bill for t'e er e cti on , i t: Edinburgh, of a monumeeLtee• the late Sir Wait r Scott. Private subscriptions bad g , entered into for the pu r p ose o f erect i ng suc h a men ani to e g u ed but the funds had b een f oun d i na d equ at.,, and be tr tbs the Legislature would have no o bj ec tion to make uP deficiency. Mr. F. MAULE seconded the motion. It w ail s a necessary for him to Ci'a.e on the me is of the greatilath4 whom the monument was t o b e erecte d . H e helievea bee • a proposal to pay a public testimonial to him ohs ha d no ld justly called "th e G rt at Wi zlr d o f t h e N or th," °." meet with the approb,.tion of all clasim Lease was t; given to brinff in the Mr. ALSTON [novel that tl b ie petiien of Ciptal a u d Roche (present e d on th e 9,h o f M arc h) b c printer ), g circulated with the Votes. a th e After a short conversatim Vie House divided, and numbers were— F. r the motion Against it t.glinst the motion -- 4 Mr. BETH ELL then moved for leay.: to brill; I 'o 13111 to amend the Act passed in the third and fourth Ye n , of the reign of his Mij e sty Ki ng Willi am th e Fourt h 5 0 t,tuled " An Act to amend th e l aw re l at i ng to Sew er ' Sir Leave C. ocea DOUGLAS, on behalf f Mr. Dugdale , . lll ,l - of that the petition front the ratepay, re cf the need le ' Ilemlingford (preteated March 12) be printed.) After a short conversati o n th e mo ti on was withdraw"l3ill Lord MORPETH, in moving for leave to br in f i i n g: tio :i for the maintenan ce a n d r e gu l a 'i on o f t h e L agan v and for transferring the same to the Comrnistionere g. o o Public Works in Ireland, sa id Le did net propos e to r e. into the general question, which was rather a larg e , 0 1 , All were agreed that th e uncer t a i n ty w hi c h so long oe rounded the Li , gan Nasig. tion, should be remove' the was aware there were p o i n t s o f eiffin enCe bctw een Treasury and th e B oar d o f P u bli c W or k s i n I rc l Via respect to the subject. His object waP, to refer th e foo to a Select C omm it tee , b y w hi c h a l one t h u t qu es could be adequately consiiercd. Mr. PIGOT seconded the motion. L Mr. COURTENAY concurre d w ith the Noble that the only mode of getting up the merits of th e c lio tion was by the means proposed. He would not thee ra into the subj-ct, as the N o bl e L or d hid ab,ttioe d o doing'sp. He would merely notice of his intldes to put a que..ii:m relttive to the deb en t u res and the he of them h st'sg Leave was then given to bring in the Bill, read a first time. a ce- On the motion cf Sir W. RAE, the Biq for thi t er tion at Edinburgh of a monum en t t o th e late Sir "" Scott, was read a first time. (thi 9) Col:tnel SIBTHORP crave notice that to-morro w , s n her eveaing he would move that an address ba presen!o 3 t ;jto Majesty requesting that she would be graciously P 105 5; e give direeti:ns for copies of the several communicatioeloot tween the Secretary of State for the Home Depar t aid the Treasury relativk to the appointment 0 , of Vizard Solicitor to the Home Department, at a Sal a ' 1,500/. per annum. A o f 0 1 The other Orders of the Day wer e then dispose the House Adjourned at Half-past Elev n. THE SYRIAN EXPEDITION' The Franlffort Journal publishes a complia ,, e_ t ir ar o l d . ore ter, addre3sed t.) t ,, e Archduke Fred er ick by tjoi" ors' Napier on the 27th Septembe r , ex p ress i v e of his 'G o er' tion at the conduct of t - e officers and me n of the mgb. riera frigate, and the posi'don taken by his Imperial "":;iO.• in-ss during tl,e b o mb ar dme n t o f Ac re . The sae le n ,,o , nal contains a letter from Captain Berkeley, P u A do to the P • rinc,, to tie sac e ff.ct ; and -Is' Au the following despatch, which was delivered by, o to miral Sir R. Stopford to Admiral Bandiera, re lbtng the same events:— to the 46 A larmorizza, 17th December.—Conformab l y i ,„l 119 P commands of Vie Lords Commissioners of V . e A"'" a i o ri c i ere I have the honour to prevent you with their mos t — boar thanks for the service rendered by the Austrian Eq us , the under your order, , , throughout all the expeclitill t - Jell e clast of Syria, and especially at the taking m to elorti o ity d'Acre and Saida. At the same time lam make known to you how much the Lords of th'e i, d r d b o css appreciate the manner in whi , :h his Imperial OP Or the the Archduke Frederick, and the officer under Y eti f f or - o ° 6 l mand, submitted themselves to the service, and Fe' you the orders given them. Allow me. to retteet tthbitet Will communicate the sentiments ( f the Lords 0 ' `vrede mTalty to his Imperial Highness the Archduke„' - oar rick, an well as to the officers and crews of s" squadron. DUTCH MAIL. THE HAGUE, MARCH 9.—The Questor-Gererojolbrro Central Synod of the Reformed Church in the nonce lands has published a statement, in which be give l l e . and, " t that the collection made in 1840 for the cht l- r e t o_w ° I persons in want of assistance, produced a su ni t hat ti". 4 32,597 florins. The Quoctnr-Gcncrdl thilerVeS ao, sum, compared with the amounts in pre ceding Y e c o f ba s very considerable. With the powerful assigo ec oo, f2fr Majesty the King, and of the Provincial Ass et° a nd t° communes have been able to repair their churches, have Divine Service performed in a proper mann er t i le Die FRANKFORT, MARCH B.—We are assured th et , in the has appointed the Military Commission to dec ice acting dispute between [lease Darmstadt and Nassau re 19 , is. The navigatian of the Rhine. —Dutch Papers , --I ; f : rcu DUTCH FUNDS.—AmsTErroAra, Mancn • „ Is , Al on es • tctual "2.3 y per Cent 3itto, ditto 5 per cent Athol t Sr•ndic, 44 percent 7'174 Ditto, ditto, per cent 7V4 if n !i t Commercial Company, 4.,‘, per cent Ditto (183.5 and 1837) 5 per cent. ...... . Loan 1037, 5 per cant. Exchange on London, One month... ..... ...• , I‘2 & Two months ....... - Dutch Papers, March 13- AfARCn BELGIAN I! UNDS—naussul.ll, --- 5'27. Actual Debt, 2X, per Cent. ................ ....• Rothschild's Loan, 5 per Cant ................••• 89 Lean of Thirty Millions, 4 per Cent. ••••••••' - 3 per Cent. ....... f? " .. „, ......... F - -(1 40) .................. Loan of City, H 32, 4 per Cent. ................ Sock ty of Commerce, pe r Cent ............. Bank of Belgiu:n, 5 per Cent ........ .. National Seciety ................................. , i 5 Exchange on London (short) ................ —Brussels Papers, March 13. • AUSTRIAN FUNDS.—Vircruct, ......... Five per Cents. Metalliques 98 X Foxr per .............. • .......................... Three per Cents. ......................... ................... . . rank Shares ........................................... Mareh 'Vlsacir 9 , PRUSSIAN FUN OS.—Btrawri, • M o n ey ' Bills. 1(34 St. Schuld. Sch., 4!•,, per cent ............. 10 3 A. 100 ii Prussian English Loan, 1830, 4 per cent. 100 3 4, ltixcbange on London, three months... 7 —Prussian State Gazette, March 10 nf MARCO 4. 100 i Thirty.seven In consequence of the extraordinary , n i, ewspaper s by the persons connected with the Pos!..ood.t: .e Postmaster-General has issuedt the P°' a circular 0 i v irg wasters of the different towns throughout England. g o f notice, that not only will dismissal the offenc e n. , ,bEtraeting newspaper:4, but that the offen3crs will be pr secuted with the utmost rigour. ma d e on We understand that application was ; Ti.ursday to the F rat DivisiO , l of the Court of Seset el4 ~ r laave t o a ppeal the decision in the Auchterarder carscea A detentioc-e permission granw4 proyV.ed the eppcil WO ea lc witlilll fourivsn days, f - Are Per ti ll N Op