The Sun. — London, England, 1816-06-15 00:00:00

I,;iPERIAL ° PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, 1:111DAY, JuNE 14. The 'Earl of LoNsni).LE presented two Petit ions frio certain Underwriters and Sliip-owners in firour of the Waterloo Harbour Bill.--Laid on the table. A person from the Mint presented op Account of Gold and CiirerCoinai end of MAO. Tokens, moved for by the liael of Latulerdale.—Laid on the tahle, The W:iterford Harbour Biil and Life Annuities Bill were read at 0,1 time.---Thy:Peoitentittry ain was committed, 'l'he Ir'r , h Bank Stamps Bill, Exchequer Bills and 1,400,0001, Bill, and Clergy. Farms Bill, were read a third ildae, and passed, Thu Dank Balances Bill, Militia Bill, Silver Coinage an , t Hydrometer Bill, Were brought up titan the Commons . , read first time. _ STATUTE-,BOOK. STAIVI.IOI'S obsered, that as tile two Iloutes.,of!lament were agreed as to the He, bohnions relative to the totnte-Book, what he lind now to offer was mere form. He moved fur a CoMmillee to Consider of an Athiress to the Prince Regent on the subiect of the Resolutions ; —fhat the Lords ptesent he of the Committee ; and that the Committec meet forthwith, and have the power to choose their Own Chairman ; and tltarin ,the mean time the noose adjourn doting pleitinte. The Committee having met according ly.the Earl ot Shattestiury Chairman, reported, that (he Committee hail agreed upon the form ul address, which was in substance---that in the opi niOn Of the two }louses it was expedient that the, Statutes of England, Scotland, and Ireland should be arranged limier distinct heads, and that the Lords and Commons prayed his Royal Highness to take the necessary stepi to carry the object into . execution. This Address was agreed to. Earl STAL4I-10PE then moved the appointment of ti Committee to consider what was proper to be communicated to the Commons on this head, and a Committee was accordingly appointed as before, and The Earl of SHAFTESTIVR? reported, that the Committee Irid agreed that it was proper to corn. tnumicate the. Address to the Commons, arid de. .tire their concurrence. This was ordered accord ingly, and a Message was sent io the Commons cquesting a COnference on Tuesday - next on the •I‘itilect matter of the last conference.---Adjourned. noun OE COMMONS. A Petition was presented from the Parish . of St. George, Ilanover-Square, against the New Street and Sewer Bill. - The SOLICITOR-GENERAL gave notice of a motion re k apt cling certain Funds at Oxford. Two Petitions Were • prekhted from certain Distillers in Scotland for relief from Overcharge of Duties. A Petition was presented from Adore and another place in Ireland respecting Tithes. - The titiclainiod Dividends apprispriation and the Militia Amendment Bills were ren d third time, and passed. The Watch and Ward Ili went through the Commit tee. The Bardiropts Bill was read a second time • COmmittee on Monday. , A Petition was reeeivedfrom Leather Traders of Abingdon. The %..:oinage Bill An& the. South Sea Bill wire read a third. time. CORONERS DEL. On.the order- of the day for the Coroners' Bill going into a Committee, General THORNTON, the ATTonNev-Gr.NenaL, and Mr. CALCR AFT Intik! stone observations ; after which strangers were excioded for some tune. A division •tobk place on the question— Acs - (Noes . 101 Majority 'fhe 14iU then . went through the Coonhince : Atria on Monday. On the' thotion of Ur: lAMBI' ON, the Collieries Protie. tient, Bill was' rend a second time : Committee on Monday:- 11)e Itape , qnd Bill .was read a second time: Committee on Monday,- 7 -The Report on the Acts re4 . pectino r4steliwird k‘:ils received— , Aeonnta of Expeneei ot . ' the Keit. Silver were LIBERTY OF THE PRESS. . Mr. Iia:;UGHANI said he was desirous to dis charge the.order of the <by respecting his motion, und to ,st a ro his rtmons.for doing so. This wits ton, advanced a period of the session to introduce a meaStrre which might operate a material change in the 10;40 the country. Sueli a meastire ought not to., be horried : and if it lay over till next ses sion, great advantage might be. derived trom the (108 y, by the time for consideration so afforded to the Muse, to the country, nod to the legal pro fession. During the vacation, tip opportunity would - be given for attentiOn to the subject. In deed, already, though the time had been short, he knew -that the prejudices of many persons on this subject had decreased greatly.. ,lie therefore was led to anticipate that a favourable result would be produced by delay, at,least foy a great part of the Bill, if not for the whole of it. lie wished to resume the subject early next session. and moved • the second reading for that day three mouths.- 01 dared. Papers were presepteil relative to repent dis turbauces in 'reliant. The Report on the Distillery Acts was re ceived. _ - - On a Report of the Affairs of the Royal Naval Asylum, Sir C. POLO noticed the expellee of the establishment,, and the comparatively Small bene fits produced by it. The funds had increased from 40,0001. to 92,0001. and the education of each buy, was extremely expeusive on the, average. Mr. Rosa codended that there was no public extrnvagance in the establidonent. CALCIIhrr observed, that it was stated that 40:1,t');',4„ had been laid tint on this establishment, and [hilt only 71 buys had been sent out to sea yet the Right Hon. Member opposite could see I to ptthlie extravagance. If this was not an ex travagdnt , expenditure, he could not tell what was se. lie would not vote a shilling more till the matter was sifted to the bottom, Surely it was tan much to hear that cult hoy's education cost LOW. on an average. All the reform he had heard of was the dismissal of a man who had half a crown a day for pumping water, lie should 'endeavour to obtain , further information, for the establish mem ought either to lie got rid of or amended. Mr. Rose explained. As to himself. he had n e ither merit nor demerit in the matter.—Referred to the Committee of Supply. ' • pujiLlC It ETItENCHNIENTB. A question was asked by Member, respecting when Any Report was to by given to the _House of Retrenchments in the .Expeneei in Public Offices ? r , Lord CASTLE:figAGIT 531 d, that a Repoi4 had 'Peen -received from the Commissioners appointed by titi; Trewiner, and wns now tinder the consi drration of Goyernmelit. lie thought .that it, Nroidtl' be the most satisfactory way to put, l'arlia. went in possession of the whole mut,ier, which could he conveniently done early next Session. 'rims Ptirlin:lent could exercise its own irtflgtpoit on the arrant;emet►t. A partial repast now' could not prove 'so skisittetory. It would Ile n►uch tatter ri;i"tilt: House to bitve.tht whole i'epoil in one vim-. •CONFERXNCE. A Message from the Lords was received, desir ing a effliferetfte on Tuesday-concerning the sub ject-matter of the 'last conference.--:'Agreed to. . NATIONAL MoNVNIENTS. Mr, TtEnzmy . observed, that an advertisement had appeared soliciting .designs for torn national monuments, and stating their expence at 300,0001. Ile hoped no final step's would be tai en'on this subject till next Session, cousidering the present distressed State of the country., It was very pro bable thatthe sum of 300,0001. would extend to half a million ihr nbjects,.of no real public utility. Two separate edifices were proposed to be coo. structed—one toe Waterloo, and one for Traf,il gar, The latter victory had quite passed over fur years, till after the Watet 100 monument was vot i.d.. The commemoration of these great victories of our navy and army must always remain in the memory of every man in the conntry, 6°0 ; 0) to monuments were erected. if the luau wcrc per . sited in, he should apply to the sense td the Bonne opon it early next' Session ; and he hoped he should not then be told he was too late, The CIiANCELLOR of LIM EXCIMWER sail, it was not intended immediately to propose any vote. or commence any work. The advertisement was merely dtrected to the artists ; and all that was to be inferred from it was, inerelY a disposition to receive pious and designs. There was no tentIVII of any farther 'proposition on the abject this Session. When the debigul were received, it would remain with the Tieasitry . nitimately .to decine between them, as to their merits and ex - 'pence*: then the lreasUry could see what could be done at the least public , expellee, and propose, the stun required. These designs might probahly be received in a' few months. All that had been done was to prevent any unnecessary waste of I time. Arr. TIERNEY was glad to hear that this business WHS not to he immediately proceeded in ; but it did seem deteimined by the Treasury advei rise- Mew that 300,0001. should be expended for the two monuments. This advertisement. was quite without the knowledge .ot Parliament. .I.lr. LONG said, the subject must certainly come completely .baore Parliament : but ; the Vight lion. Gentleman *as in fact 'complaining of the votes of the House, which had decided'in favour Of the two monuments for-Waterloo and Tr. 611- gar. Government, in acting on the votes, Must mention some sui» in calling on the artists to send in their designs Not only were the 1110 ' 11UlnentS voted, but an address to the Prince Regent was also-passed, to pray that the votes should be cid ried Into etreet• HUSBANDRY-HORSE 111 On the• Order of the Day tor the third rending at this Bill, Sir C. BURRBLI, objected to it as a tax, not on Inttury, but on husbandry. Sir W. W. WiNt4 uppu'ed the priociple of the Bill altogether. After a few words fry,►ru the Chancellor of the 1 7 .,xchequer and Mr. Davenport, the Bill was read a third time. Sir CO ARLES Mall P.Lf, then . proposed the. fol lowing clause by' way of. rider :—" ,Thar front and after the 50 day of May, 1810, so mirth or the said Act as related to the tax on husbandry horses t , hould cease and determine." M r. \V I( &NE: opposed the clause, %Viten the Honse di% hied— , Yer the cruse, 65 I Against it, 112 Majority, l 7, On nu re-admission to the gallery, we found the CHANCIELLOR of the . ESCRECtUaII proposing the introduction of another claese, the object of which we could not a,scertain. On a division, the numbers were— For the cbu,e, 75 FAgainst it, srt 1 Majority, se. coNsourvatoN of THE TWO EXcIiEQUERS. The House went into a Committee on the. .A., chequer Consolidathm Bill. Sir J.' NEW pont objected to'the clause fin!' creating .a Vice-Ttcasurer, with Csalwry Pt 3500/. a-vettr, He contended that his office would be a sinecure, since be 'would be obliged to enine OVer . and attend this House, The only object of Mi nisters. Was to secure.the services of some eminent person but in what way he did not choose to explain. The office of Vice-Tr\msurer must be discharged by a Deputy doting his absence, and he wi,Shed to know what.would be the salary of that.. Deputy. The CHANCELLOR of the ExcusQueu said that the Deputy Would not bare • • seat Parliament, and would have a salary of 10001. a-year. Sir J. Nawt'oiei law litat these would be two offices instead of one; that the first would be a Sinecure, and the second would have very little - to d o . Why not make at least the salary of the Vice- Treasurer as low as that of his Deputy ? if that arrangiunent were. persisted in the public must seethat all protesiktits of 'economy made by niitt , ri were nnfounfied. The Ctimaccm.ant of the EXCHEQUER wished the lion. liarone-t_ had stated what other ()glee , could have been created instead of Vice-Treasurer. lie then defended the necessity of such an ap pointtnent, as the mode of payment could 'not be' changed, He contended that a Gentleman of high rank and great respectability was alott“otopetent to be the ViCe-Treasoret of Irelantl,as his yespon - - sibility would be very considerable. lie stated that the Officer, 30 years'ago, before the office had been abolished, had a salary of 10 or 11,0001. a year, and could he - he considered overpaid nerve, with 3;5001. ? lie Maintained that the duties of the oflicewere so incessant, t h at even if the Vice- Treasures . were to reside the whole year in Ire land, a - Deputy would still ,be : neeessary.. Mr. Potoormv contended that his Majesty's Ministers dared not have introduced this most shameless and : profligate, job if the Rouse had been full . ; this was the i'easln why they had brought the Bill at the close of the Session. There was • no responsibility. in the Officer proposed to be crestedl his only .duty was -tri i eimatetsign the warrants:, given by -the Lord Lieutenant-, and -tor . eee thiteihe yoticher was a-true one, by coinpar ing the.stun issued, with the warrant, and-seeing that the amount was the same. lie had no to interfere Ur remonstrate, but to obey. Why themslintald he sit its Parliament ? He bad no at.- counts to render, no explanations to give,why such ' a sum should have been issued. Ile was a mere clerk, and yet he was to be . remunerated, with a salary of 35001: a-year, and a seat in that house, besides a .deputy to perform' his ditties ! Why should he have kgreater salary than any, of ;he Lords of the Treasury, in Ireland, whose pay was only 12001. a-year.. lle . had thought 20001. a-year would have been a most ample salary,' but that was before he knew the public were to be charged With 10001. for a deputy. The expence contained in this Bill would not - be the whole, but more money would be asked to vimplete the establish ment. He should now propose to reduce the sa lary of the Vice Treasurer to 20001. a-year, in tending to 'take the next opportunity of endea touring to negative the clause for, giving that thficera seat in Parliament and opposing the ere- Hauit of a deputy,unless.he should be paid nut of the salary of` his principal.. lie conelndeil by movinz, that instead of the words 35001. be in serted 20001. Mr. PEEL defended the Bill, and the appoint ment which it was intended to effect. , He con tended, that instead of violating the Act of Queen Anne. by creating new offices, the Bill would abo liSh,eight Parliamentary Offices, five Lords of the Irish Treasury, a Chancellor of the Exchequer, a Secretary to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and a Secretary to the Irish Treasury. He.st.‘ted that the duties and responsibility of the Vice. .Treasurer would be considerable. Besides coon ,tersigning the Lord LietitenatiCa warrants, he would have to examine the accounts of the Auditor of the Exchequer. As to the magnitude of his salary, the Treasurer of the Navy. had 4,00d1.' year, and yet his duties dol not exceed in import ance those which would devolve on the Vice;Trea sitter of Ireland, who would have only 3 400 i. It It was.said,-.that he should not have a higher sa lary than his Deputy, but there was this difference between•them, that the Vice-Treasurer would'be responsible, not 'only for his own acts; but for those of .1 his Deputy. Mr. PoNsotsTay explained, and ridiculed the 10.- gie of the Right Hon. Gentleman, %vim contended, that because a particular number of useless offices were abolished, a certain number of other useless Offices should he created hi their stead. , :As to the Treasurer of the Navy, the reason why be had 4000/. a-year should come from the other side of the House. He could give one however. The Right Hon. Gentleman Mio filled that office had spent a long portion of his' existence in public 'ditties, and therefore might, be entitled to that re munerat ion ; but 'why should, it be a ffi xed to the office itself, when it ;lipoid pass into the hands of another ?, It was,now ae:inowledged that the du -60. of Treasurer Of the Navy would not be more considerable than those of Vice-Treasurer of Ire- ' land yet the House Might recollect in what a flame the Right 1100, Treasnrer of the Navy had started up some time since, when some tionbt was !bro.% non 'the magnitude of his ditties. The fact was, that because' 400 W. a-yellr . yrere given to an Officer to uo nothing, 3500/. mtist 'be lavished upon another to do as little. ' Mr. PEEL Stated, that - the' Treasurer of the' Navy had 40001. a-year, for the smile reason that. the Right , Hun. (4entletnan himself. (Mr. Pou- Sonhy) received 40001. a-year as late Chancellor of Ireland, hyAct of Parliament, and as a reward for eminent services. Mr.PoszsoNßY thought no justification necessary for'llis receiving-a provision. inadeby Act of Par liament for those, u. ho like him, resigned the offices which they held. But lie should think Idif ferently were he holding an office of 4000/. a-year for doing nothing: . - Mr. V. Furzon RAID defended the logic of his Ili& lion. Friend t Mr. Peel) and contended, that if he had alluded to the 4000/. enjoyed by the Right opposite, it was not in the spirit of recrimination. Mr. Rose .stated, ihat his salary was voted an-: nuttily, anti therefore came under the notice of the Haase every year. lie thought that if there was no provision made for those who had spent their lives in official duties; the public wotilt4 he less .likely to be well served. Ile was willing to ac knowledge, that the duties of the l'reastuer of the Nary %% tie not equal to the magnitude of the fail', hut it Ivas an offiee given to those who had led a long life 'II thity, With ou t h av i ng th e means of - saving a fortnne, for there Were feW o ff ic es so well. paid, that their Occupiers could lay by, a 1001. a-year, • Mr. l'intiNior said, - that be had never . heard the. Oflice of 'Treasurer of the Navy defended on tliese gi winds before. The Right Hon. Gentleman spAte of it in a very pathetic way, as being a re ward for his long services.' Bat before he was Treasurer of the 'Navy he had secured his reward, for •he enjoyed another 'place of !mpg,. a year. He could not have received less than 70001. last vearfrom his Oflice of Clerk of Parliament. But the Right Hon. Gentleman anticipated the reward of his stn), by getting a place for hint almost as soon as.be„Wirs .born. Ile fetes ready to a d m i t , that, Ile 'llad.heen a Useful 'servant of the public, but the public had also done a vast deal for hin t , It was iniposiible that the etnoluments Of himself and his two sons could 1 . , !:e les s than 20,0001. a , year. Thus-the :battery of tne yoce,.. 7 4'rea3tirer of, , Ireland, and.that of the 'treasury of the Navy, ought by no Means to be put in comparison: The Bight klon,. Gentlemen seemed to think that when certain offices were no lotiger necessary, it Was a. meritorious act on their part to give them tip. But he took this to be the most outrageous, unucces sant, and scandalous job that ever any Ministers had the•liardihood to- engage. in. Ile. then ani madverted-on the observations of the. Chancellor of the Exchequer, in defence of the lie w appoint , merit, remarking, that as a Gentleman WAS 'to be put in Parliament at -the eicpetiee,ot 3,5001: ' a year, to assist the Ilight lltinourable,GentleMan, it would not be amiss to have a Committee of .1 0 . (Wiry to ascertain -who this cientlentan is, and whether he is money l►t Is to "receive, as it might turn out that his talents might not be worth-as -many pence. If thii officer was to be'a cheek upon the 'Lord Lieutenant of behold, the Root , I.,rd Lieutenant- had Lost his- dignity with a vengeanee 'as this Vice-Treasurer was ' l ('!*‘‘co4"lg,. to '4pgituid innuedhttelv, and to leave only his Deputy to check the LOrd Lieuten-' ant, which, in Tact, would be - no aleck orim lam at all. In short, this was an office wbiell quired no extraordinary talents whatever, and weir purely tine of Ministerial patronage. He could, not help thinking that the Deputy, on represent . ; lug the hardship of his case, in having all the duty to perform, would get 15001. a-year instead ot 10001. 'Pius there was 4.5001, kir 50001. a-year to be taken unnecessarily out of the pockets of the people ; and could the Noble Lord believe that the country did not yietv all this with dis glist—wheti by these two offices the salaries of so many poor, miserable, dismissed Clerki, were swallowed up ? It was a robbery, and nothing else, upon the public. It was a cruel insidcto the dignity of many of the oldest and most re spectable families in the kingdom, 'to say, that moustrons . job was to be paid for out of their . pockets, pinched and oppressed as they were b the weight ot taxation. It was a burlesque upon the ,promised economy and retrenchment, and lie hoped the House would check the career of Mini sters, who did not know what economy and re" trenchmeut meant. He trusted tliateven at this' late period of the Session, a sufficient number de independent'Members would be found to consign the attempt to the contempt and indignation it 4eserves. Mr. Giers was of opinion that 20001, a-year was an adequate remuneration. Lord CASTLEREAGH detended the appointment, contending that the Bight Honourable Gentle ittripooyiet the f()r sautehestrprirreissesiosent of :rtg,iiirinieWtyntoSi might places and offices; against the abolition of which Parliament had always set th e ir face, A certain quantaut of influence of the Crown 11 , 4(1 been deemed a just and n ecessar y privilege of the onstitution. Tire arguments of the Right 14°11 ,* Gentleman were only ad eapt an dana. The Act 01., Queen' Ann had assigned certain limits beyon d which the patronage of the Crown (1)041 1 1 ' 4 he extended. He slimed that there was, by ‘ l l4' arrangement, an annihilation of 5 sea" i i i t he r' House, and contended th a t t h e progress ' l 7; im ' prOvement of Ir e l a nd, would be poi", impeded, if such executive offic e s as o 'l' were not continued, There must be such ° l* cial, persons in Ireland, to co-operate in kilo views of the Government at home. He a e ; fended the appointment at the salary •op 05C " by Ministers. It was not a fanciful office, c rest' ed by his Right Hon. Friend, but only a recur' 'Time to the ancient system, by appointing on e Vice-Treasurer, instead of three, who formed/ existed at the salaries of 30001. a-year. each' (Hear, hear !)—The Right Honourable Geode' man had therefore made out no case whateve r against the Bill. If the place were put up to say lion, no doubt a person would be found to exe" cute its duties for a lower salary; but this we" principle unknown to the Constitution. Ile kn ew of noinstance since Mr. Burke's Bill, in "'J.','t, the influence of the Crown had been more* dee'" sleety curtailed than by the Present measure. Sir JOHN NEwPonT read the Preamble of 11 '. Act of 1807, for the abolition of unnecesierY Sim necures, in consequence of which 35 office , wr i r abolished in the C u stom s , E xc is e , and other Ile: partments. He himself carried into effect the re d ePlallinaemnednattisoencoonf the de d li C ie n e w o m tt it s t . ee of e , J i n id clu n i o r Y tir ' d.c a ne r: the country was a gainer by having only tn f ! „„ ic Treasurer instead of three; but even tills ":: a under the present circumstances', in his' 41°14 unnecessary. 4 ` . Lord Castlereagh and Sir J.', e„Tort 0 plained. Mr. Goaa LANGTON said, he should nut oper form his duty t o hi s Con st i tuen t s ,' if he did I.; protest against this m o st s c andalous job. country was not in a st a te t o be a r such prows', lity, as it could n o t s u pp ort i tse lf, unless relieve; from farther harthens to - the amount ot °r millions a-year., " • • , Mr. STUART WO RTLEY WAS, not satisfie d Olt the arguments of Ministers in favour of the otn ee in ooestion, because they had abolished five d n ; necessary offices outof ei g ht. Aia :salary of ° " i 20001. a year, its was impossible to' believe 0 ", the o ffi ce of Vice-Treasurer would not be eager l y sottght for. The case out to be looked - at 0 1 neW One, and not to be paid for'according to c .. , " precedents. lIUSKTSSON contended that this office not a new demand on the public purse, but otilY a regulation arising , out of the old estaßlishmeot• Ile defended the 'higher remuneration, on tha ground of the responsibility of the office. The err of Parliament alludedto by the Right Hon BOP net was only the following op o f th e ' recom mea° dation of the responsible Servants of the Crown; and the [tight Hon. Baronet could not, as far 65 he saw, do any thing else than use his effort 4 7 cart.; it into execution. The Right Hon. Leib tleman' made a.variety of observations in det . e",l of his own office (the S urve y or of MOO FOrests), tvhicll arose out of the - suppression 0. two offices, which formerly existed, and he sr.* geed that the abolition of one of them was a beilt fit to the public, and a precedent for the appol 1 ';; ment triad; was -now the subject of debate. 4 replied at some length to the arguments of tit° Gentlemin 'opposite, against-the necessity of thf : office of Vice , Treasurer, all of which he lusist r( ; were fallacious. The saving of 10001, Isl ea c yj would, he contended,' risk much discontent, 1 ° ;. be the loss of many thousands by the want'S due administration of the public affairs. Lord A. HAMILTON' objected to the aPr' n o f metit, as totally inconsistent-with the pledge' economy and retrenchment Airco by th e crovt!.. He saw .occasion for the o ffi ce of the .Deput y: 'rite country could not see these things going° - without believing that all the professions of ec°!` nanny were a mockery and a farce.: is S u i ) r e Pa eDil i K ld l e `t c , i ooti dn.o dec l a r ed utviilc he was at tit + intl ur quite side; he ellaUl vote. 1 But probably sum further discussion llttg ltt clear bp his doubts. fie alluded to the situa ll held by hii Learned and Right. Hon. Friend C a Ponsonby), who received 80001. a year , and . tired with only half that suns ; and yet the 4,111 ern'' ' laments a'itightHon. Gentleman (1.:1 1 % I;0 11 .` 1 :::i; who admitted that he had received mare duties reeniied, a nd hiol retired ern year besides were, put in coniparitolt with all y : of his Right HOll. Friend. The com iparson vs' ' odioni. - A Member (we hcreve Mr. USTI.VSS) 013-- i