The Sun. — London, England, 1828-06-18 00:00:00

~:~ i 0. 6 1,1 a to be, for the present, postponed. Although it was certain the House would have to proceed to the question of the new Modification and arrangement of the government of India— its government, policy,, and trade, within a few years,— they were not, on that account, to put off until the adjust- Merit of this great question, the arrangement of such an important matter as that now pressed on their observation by the petitioners. With reference to the motion of has 'light Hon. and Learned Friend, he was not disposed to Vet an opinion ou the legality or illegality of the imposi tion of the duties complained of. If those duties so im- Posed were illegal, the parties had redress elsewhere in a court of law : if the remedy was doubtful, the question might be made the subject of an appeal from a cour t o f keg competence to redress the injury complained of. It was only in such instances, that it became the duty of Parliament to interfere, and pass a declaratory act. If, no it had been said by his Right Hon. and Learned Friend, that the Act as respected the Government was illegal, cer tainly little less would be anticipated from the want of clearness and conciseness in the act of the Legislature. Clearness, sometimes brevity or conciseness, rarely if ever constituted part of the essentials of an Act of Parliament. The House was called on to decide to-night whether, in the case of a petition signed by a few representing a nulli fier of mercantile and other pereens at Calcutta, they, the Most accessible braach of the Legislature, would turn its back °n, or a deaf ear to, the complaints of a large body of the People of India? He earnestly hoped the House would not be deprived of the assistance of those powerful authorities on tpieetions of Indian policy who had spoken with so much vcrifidence during this debate, when they were, at no very distant period, to be called on to decide upon and grapple With the greater question of the Company's charter. He did not agree with his Hon. Friend the Member for Mon-. t i'cse, if such really were his Hon. Friend's sentiments, that the freedoni of the press was or could be a panacea for every thing ; but he certainly thought it might he very t necessftilly used as a means of alleviating many grievances trhereit had not previously existed. Mr. T. P. COURTENAY said, that in speaking of n ecorrences which bad happened so long as 16 years ago, it became him to be diffident ; but as well as he could re collect, the clause which was then introduced g av e a pow er to the - Goveroor-General in Council to levy taxes and "Wee of customs, subject to the control of the Directors l it home. That was the full amount of the power then Mated. His Hon. and Learned Friend had stated that a doubt was raised as to the difficulty of throwing open the trade ivith India; but he (Mr. Courteuay) could say that such was not the feeling entertained by him, or by the government with which he was connected. Mr. R. - GRANT said, that on the policy of that parti cular law, on its justice, and on the details respecting the tax, as well as the other topics connected with it, such as the introduction of a free press, he did riot feel himself ;ailed upon to give any opinion whatsoever. He had never h eard any petition more clear in the sntement of fact, More distinct in its premises, or more obvious in its con clusion, than that upon which hi s H on . an d L e arned Friend had rested his comprehensive statements. The Premises were these, that this tax and all others of the same nature were illegal and impolitic, and the concluding h'''aYer of the p e tition w as , th a t th e y s h ou ld p ass a declare ry law pronouncing the tax illegal and impolitic ; and Mellin g else would satisfy the 'petitioners. His Hon. and Learned Friend had maintained that the petition should be referred to a Committee ; but he would say, that if the pe titioners were right, the appointment of a CO mm itt ee w ou ld "e an evasion, not an acknowledgment of their claims. If the tax was illegal, as they had said, a declaratory law was ;necessary : if its legality was doubtful, a Committee t'f the House of Commons wax not th e t r ib una l t o decide th e for question of law. If it was legal, there was no reason • referring i t to a Committee: if it was illegal, there was still less. Sir J. MACKINTOSH wou ld not a b use hi s pr i v i lege of reply by trespassing on their time at any length. Every Z, ll, must have heard with satisfaction the speech of the '''Oble.Lord (Ashley) who had for the first time that night eased the House at any length,' and who had mani ftted an acquaintance with our dominion in India, such 43 indicated a capacity to serve his country in the situation t ° which lie was naturally called.—(Hear, hear.)—He (84 J. Mackintosh) had heard the greater part of the de bate.,with satisfaction, though it did not accotd precisely w ith th e prayer of the petition. He had heard with satin *lion the avowal. of more liberal doctrines than lie was 4censtomed to with respect to the government of India.— P t lear, bear.)---It gave him pleasur e t o h ea r the possibi y admitted of introducing the liberty o f the pr e ss i n to adin under certain modifications. Upon the whole, he r ejoiced at the acknowledgment of o?iuions by those * km* influence afforded the best pledge for their adoption— °Pinions which must lead to the establishment of a wise p % peal of govern M en t f or I n di a . H e h a d a l rea d y ex :lied the pleasure which he felt at the suggestion of an f t 'Nit'', relative to the policy of admitting the English h into-India. If that inquiry was instituted at au early ' l " e tiod of the ensuing session, it would be attended with . 4° re advantage than any thing that could now be in. h ' i 'afted on the petition. If he might expect that such a r ° Poeition would be received without much opposition, Would willingly withdraw his present motion, giving la e r i ee, at the same time, that he would move for such r. „ inquiry at an early period of the next Session.— "nor, hear.) a to 11 1 UNa P U"Ue % Irdel g oVCt eunod t of CSI whic h the , ch eo% the 1 ' still iv principtlj low g !,11 hely 13_6f a pt, '5 600 inlO O , P , • owl' O J 30,,ber b. house, r. ost Oppfl cation 1)4 4 i, Ity, 4 ' °l3 t is said tb s tb o voceibution 1.)7, conip l o " , 1y was 41, BRITISH SHIPPING. t i , neral GASCOYNE wished to call tLe attention of e House to what the real nature of his motion was, be •tt(lo it had been much misunderstood, both in that House IL out of it. With th a t v i e w h e mus t begin to st a t e wh a t 1 1 7 battir e of it was not. It w as no t a g enera l i nqu i ry ~, t o the stat e of t ra d e ; nor did h e mean t o argue i t as a 'ntercial question, but as an abstract naval question. He hNI(' do so, not b e caus e h e thou g ht th a t th ose w h ose , 11 , 4 he advocated last year were les= des erv i ng o f re li e f , ` becam e having failed,.last year, he wo u ld ro t p resume "ring forward the same question so soon after being de- N.W. He was confident that the distress of these inte- Ct'l which he had then advocated was us great now as 1,'4, and that if there was any difference at present, it 1 3 / 4 that their distress was greater than before.—(A tt li th.)—The principal argument against him was, that e N had been a redundancy of shipping, which led to Jt speculation, an d th e s p e culation to great distress. HBe were at least the arguments which bad most effect. 4 11 ; if he could prove to-night that such redundancy did f t , r t oxist, he believed it would be admitted that the in it tufts drawn from that redundancy must be abandoned. would now treat the subject as an abstract naval ques ,ta4) abstaining as much as possible from the commercial L ti tiPn Which he had brought forward last yea r; and the tit consideration that presented itself w as , w h et h er t h e pping of this country had or had not increased. • In all ) le til er periods the employment of ships and shippi ng h a d : e au 'd after war. Looking back to the period of 1763, coinhe he found that there was no instanc e in (1.--a „any of the intermediate wars, up to the period be last war, in which, taking an average of five years 4 kt ' a ch, the shipping had not annually increased after the But that had u nf or t una t e ly ceased to be the case 14 1 ' th e late war. He would prove, that on the contrary ,etoploent of shipping and men had annally di yt'othed,ym and that not gradually, ex ce pt for the u first few t k ; (4 ,, • In the year ending the sth of J anuary, 1827, the "Ilis were — Ships and Shipping. Tonnage. s eame n. 2a,564 2,078,400 178,000 I t*2 22,109 2,050,514 166,333 4 t 4 diminution, in the ten years of peace, of Ships and Shipping. Tonnage. Se amen . t 2,664 324 , 440 27,000 ' l 4 4 i n g that time it was to be observed, that there had t 4 considerable incr ease in the imports and export s t o i t tl :' ,l lount of 8,000,0001. or 9,000,000/., as compared 0 t he preceding year. What he next wished to impress k t 4 the atten ti on o f t h e house was, a co mparison o f th e 11 11, 1 ,P) years, taking in th e w h o l e o f the British empire, the colonies. Ia th e y ear en di n g January, Ib;2 7,,re tur Ile were— Al•to • per , lutics ienoun'' bees alto imiv" bet, that 1, likei Ships and Shipping• Tounag , Seamen. 107, 1 3 35 21,025 2,655,000 151,115 k i t :? tat*lnent 23 l:ererred to the 5011 e n ß av i a it l iS c h ista em b r i i s ti l e_ , 14, 11 that which formed the as Ras diminished in the reverse proportion to the in 'YNee4t I'l 41 4 4 her trade. It had been said on a former - "*"„ 1 4 4 ,', that if the interests of commerce and navigation Nr i happen to clash, there was ,. no doubt but that the t ht t Noee should be given to navigation, as it was upon 5 4 . ‘.itt r existence as a naval power am I retention of lNtt4onies must depend. He would next call the a.tten rkt : f the House to the statement in the returns as it MI tot '' l I I' U • - a lKingdom Of Great Britain and Ireland, ill "'o e tlin t g li t t l e ie coho t lies. This . statement was as follows Seamen. Ships and Shipping. if 1826 20,40 a 149,894 130,491 * di4 427 10'035 because there was always Pro not mention the tonnage, 114 Portion observed in these accounts between the ten- Re k ‘it'i tor►d th e seamen; so that having the one, the other_ rom 1 4 t l '' be directly inferred from it. It appeared I . )' l a '' r:"e statement, that there was in the last of these lie 1, 4 4 itnintion. of 1,434 ships and 19,400 seamen 41 4 " t. " 1" that be should be told to look at the note under ' , 1n 4 '1 4 4 , 411 1ent, which stated that many of the vessels that #so t 1 ' - ' 1 on the list had long ceased to be i❑ existence ntlti'etl;' c,,,, p '! Would ask, when the ship was broken up I . t o 4 t} the men overboard? The argument of 1827 waS, t • ', t great quantity of shipl,ing 113:1 led to .peculation ; lii l la t i :;: s o trots stated as a 1,0,t, that the number of ships Ereat as had bleu relied on iu that argument. had egation4 debate, ,ion, be should o f hid lot they this na svi a ougb‘ crease of shipping up to 1528. That might he, but it was well known.that many ships were employed which were not profitably. employed. Instead of looking at the number of vessels employed, a. better criterion of the state of our trade would he, to see what was the situation of the building trade, and bow far the number of vessels built was on the increase or decline—how far steps avers taken to supply the places of those going to 'decay. Now what was the state of ship-building . in the last-three years? ln 1826, the number was 1,5119 ; in 1827, 1,790 ; and in 1828, - 1,285, being a falling off of 61,279 tens in the amouth of shipping. It also appeared that in 1825 the total number of vessels registered in Great Britain, exclusive of Ireland, was 22,783 ; in 1826, it was 26,234 ; and in 1827 the number amounted to 21,799. Here was an ap.. parent diminution, and in Ireland, where maritime aff►irs were on so small a scale comparatively, there was likewise a considerable falling off during the last year. In reference to the present subject he might advert to what had been said upon the corn question with respect to a protection, as the same principle was in his opinion applicable to either. They bad inquired at what price the corn growers. would be able to produce their corn. Now, he would never con sent to admit that one class of the community was entitled to a protection which would be denied to another...... (Hear.) In such an inquiry they ought particularly to guard against being led away by looking to the number of vessels employed, while the number built was not taken into their calculation. Those who had a property in the vessels employed it was notorious were losing money every day.__ He was aware that this question had been last year brought before the House under very disadvantageous circum stances, as it was imprudently mixed up with poli tical considerations. Certain misguided and ill-judging friends of the measure had thought proper to throw out insinuations against a Right Honourable Gentle man on the other side of the House, which the ship owners themselves were very far from imputing to him. The very utmost that the respectable portion of that body. had ever attributed to the Right Hon. Member was a mis take of judgment. Thus far doing him justice, he would tell the House not to suffer themselves to be carried away by his eloquence, when he sought to prevail on them to refuse a consideration to such a subject. As he had already hinted, Government were but too prone to turn a willing ear to applications- from other quarters, although they did not shew the same favour in this instance. Dur ing the present Session they had pronounced that there-was no sufficient ground for inquiry respecting the wool trade, and yet they granted one notwithstanding their declara tion. This they did, hoping to satisfy the landed inte rest, but the landed interest would never be satisfied.— (Laughter.)—lf the resolution should not I:e acceded to now, it was to be expected that they would assuredly, in the course of the next Session, appoint a Committee of Inquiry. He must ever deprecate the bad policy of the reciprocity system on which they had hitherto acted. During the discussion he had heard much from the Hon. Member for Dover, in the way of argument, that excited Iris surprise, but there was only a single assertion made use of on that occasion to which he was now inclined to advert. It bad been said that a vessel for British service could be built as cheaply in England as abroad. This he most dis tinctly denied. In support of his opinion, he should merely mention a single isolated fact, which, if true, would amply bear him out in the assertion. He had lately seen a letter mentioning• that an oak-built vessel had beets launched at the port of Dantaic, on May 22, which only cost at the rate of 31. per ton. The northern built vessels were also got up at one-third less than the expence of ours. In such a competition, therefore, it appeared likely that this coun try, to use a familiar expression, would be brought to the wall. There was also a singular anomaly in the system which he could not refrain from taking notice of. Al though it put a prohibition on the employment of foreign seamen in navigating our vessels, it at the same time ad mitted foreign vessels to compete, with us at home. The ill edicts of this policy he apprehended that they would find it very difficult to repair. Was it not evident, even to demonstration, that foreign ships coming into our ports must pro tanto displace so much of the British shipping interest, and consequently injure so much British capital ? It was neither ingenuous nor just to lay hold of the Scar borough petition, which happened to be erroneous in its details, and a few other statements a little exaggerated, as specimens of the representations made by the body in ge neral from whence they came. Mr. C. GRANT remarked, that this was the first time that he had ever heard a regular speech in reply to a De bate that had taken place twelve months since —_(Laughter) —it had also afforded him some surprise to hear from the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Courtenay), that it was the intention of Government to establish a full examination into the question during the recess ; but whatever satisfac tion this might give to the Gallant Mover of the proposi tion, he felt convinced that the Government would not consent to any alteration. The present policy was cer tainly united with the name of his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Huskisson); but he could not admit that it remained for Government to pursue an opposite course, when-he recollected that all his Right Hon. Friend's operations had taken place under the sanction of almost all of the present Members of the Cabinet ever since its commencement; nor had any policy ever been more examined into, dis cussed, and sanctioned . by that House—(clear)—and therefore, though he was glad that the Right Hon. Gen tleman (Mr. Courtenay), and those other Gentlemen, whose innocent minds were blank sheets of paper— (Laughter and continued cheers)—though he was happy that these simple-hearted persons—(Cheers)—intended to examine the subject, in order that they might have a great field for consideratieu through the summer, he could not but feel sure that the examination would end, as it ought to do, in a confirmation of the principles of his Right Hon. Friend.—(Hear, hear.)—Thinking, therefore, as he did, that this policy had already received the sanction of the Government, and of the House, he did not feel that he was now called upon to enter into the general principles of the question ; and, indeed, he should he doing an injustice to that policy were he on the present occasion to enter into a discussion on those principles. He should, there fore, simply confine himself to the question that was now before the House; and he would confess that it appeared to him, from the shape of the present motion, that it was a renewal of those efforts which had so often been made to persuade the House that his Right Hon. Friend had failed in his project ; and he must confess, that notwithstanding this was ' the evening of wonders, he had never heard a more extraordinary proposition. He, for one, was at a bee to conceive how that House had been istnting in de ference to the ship-owners ; for, although the House had not adopted what the ship-owners happened to think the most expedient, he did not see that that was any reason for saying that they had not been treated with a proper deference, or that they were crumbling into dust, to the entire overthrow of the British navy. Nor was it the least extraordinary part of the matter, that although all this mischief was existing, the Honourable Gentle man (Mr. Robinson) was quite content to wait till the next Session of Parliament before any thing was done, though, to be sure, it was perfectly consistent with a speech that was such a triumphant answe r to what had taken place last year.--(A laugh.)—But what, after all, was the case that bad been made out by the Gallant General ? It appeared from the Accounts on the Table, that the number of the registered vessels was diminished ; and, according to the Right Hon. Gentle man, this was to he a subject of inquiry in the Cabinet; but if the Gallant General would only take the trouble to look to the foot of that Account, he would find the expla nation he wished to have.—(Hear, hear.)—Supposing, after all, that this Committee was granted, what would it have to report next session, even though the Gallant Gene ral himself should bring it in. —(A laugh.)—lt would be, " This Committee does report that according to the Regis. try Act, requiring the ships to be enteredde novo, there has been a visible diminution in the amount of tonnage." But though this might be apparent, he denied that it washy any moons certain that there was a real decrease.—(Hear, hear;)—and, besides, it was perfectly consistent that there should be an apparent decrease, while the fact might be that there was a real increase. —(Hear, hear.)—The ques tion then was, whether, having last year considered the subject, and having decided that it was not a fit one for the appointment of the Committee, there was any thing new in the state of the question to justify such a measure ? He thought that there certainly was not. He thought that they were very far from having any just ground of alarm for the state of British Navigation or the Maritime interest. But before he adverted to some of the conclusions which had been arrived at by the Hon. Gentleman, be would allude to the reason why there might not lie an apparent dirninutiou in the quantity of shipping, without its involv ing any real diminution. The Registry Act of the 26th of George 111., was, that under which British ships were registered. By the 6th of George IV., it was enacted that no register was of any avail unless it was made either under the 4th or the 6th of George IV. There was no danger of any censure attaching to the department to which this registering belonged, because he knew that .the office was discharged in a most efficient manner; but at the same time, it was well known that no Registry Act could !nest all the fluctuations of the maritime commerce of this great country ; this registry, therefore, was not to be depended on, except so far as it applied to the same men that had been entered. But if there could be no censure attached to the department itself, neither could there, in his opinion, he any attached to his Right lion. Friend ; and, after all, what was it that made this diminution apparent ? Surely not the sagacity or discovery of any Hop. Member of that But he would ask why, if the number of ships had in creased, was the number of men diminished ? They had always multiplied at the rate of six men to 100 tons, and they still took their statement on the old criterion. But he would maintain; that there were not five men to 100 tons, and that upon the whole estimate there was a loss of upwards of 40,000 men. He would stow that now there was not in general snore than four men to 100 tons, and never more than five. The statements therefore upon . which Government had gone must be incorrect; and if no other good resulted from his motion, that good would attend it at al! events. The error of the statement would appear distinctly en referring to the Sixpenny Duty Office. Every seaman employed, whether an apprentice or not, was obliged to pay 6d. a month towards the support of Greenwich Hospital. Upon the arrival of any vessel in port, the captain was obliged to deliver up on oath a list of the crew, speed - yule; the length of time that each had served. -He knew of no better criterion than this for those who collected the duty so well, as lie believed that :it was regularly and fairly collected. Why, then, should they not adopt that best criterion, instead of multi plying at the rate of six to 100 tons? During war, ves sels were compelled to observe the proportion of six and sometimes seven to 100 ; but now it appeared from the Six-penny Duty Office, that they had only collected from 115,274 men. The calculation was, that every seaman, on an average, was employed eight months in the year, and paid 4s. duty; but it appeared from the return that there was a reduction of 1,1001. or 1,2001. in the last year as compared with the former. Looking at all the accounts, it will he found that there was a diminution of from 30,000 to 40,000 seamen since the war. It would be unfair to include in the number of shipping cleared out of some of our ports, some of the steam-vessels, in parti cular, which he had ascertained made 25 or 30 voyages in the year: so that if the amonnt of the tonnage of each, was multiplied by time number of voyages, it - would swell the amount of tonnage in the general account to B,OOG or 9,000 tons for each vessel. He did not look at the diminu tion of our shipping—what he wished particularly to call the attention of the House to was, the diminution of the number o f men. It was a matter worthy of serious consideration, that while our shipping trade to the East Indies, and the trade of the Colonies was increasing, our shipping trade was rapidly declining. There were employed in our colo nial shipping trade 23,000 seamen, wise never came to this country, and who could not be available for the service of the Royal Navy in case of emergency. He knew that in his view of time decrease of British shipping, he should be met, first by the mention of the vote of the registrar, of ship ping—thst many of the ships included in the list were not in existence —but whether they were so at the date of that list was not of consequence to his argument—whether they had ceased to be hated in 1824 or in 1825 was immaterial, it was still a diminution since the war. Now this dimi nution would be more observable if we looked at the state of our shipping engaged in the trade with America, and the shipping of that country engaged in time trade with us. In the year 1816, just after the war, America had only 91,000 tons of shipping eng■aged in her intercourse with this country. In 1826 it bad increased to 185,000. In 1816 our shipping engaged in the Ame rican trade amounted to 45,000 tons. In 1826, it was reduced to 37,000 tons, being a diminution of 7,000, while, in the same time, the shipping of America had more than doubled. This was an important fact, and deserved serious attention, for there was little doubt, that if there should be a general war, America would be pitted against us. The calculations upon which he went were from v..ryaecurate sources. They were those of last year and from Liverpool, but as nearly four-fifths, or five-sixths, of the whole American trade came to Liverpool, the statement of the remainder made little difference in the general calcula tion. If they looked to the difference in the .number of men emplOyed, it would be found that there bad been 1111 increase in the number of seamen employed by Ame rica, of 16,200, while there had been a diminution in those employed in the shipping trade of the united kingdom of 16,400. Thus, whatever was the state of the trade with the colonies and foreign countries, he found a most alarming diminution in the nu►Nber of men in the shipping trade in the united kingdom ; and whatever might he said, it was a fact, that that which was the basis of our naval power was gradually crumbling and di minishing. It was a fact which could not be denied, that considerable numbers of our men were employed in the shipping of America. Ile had not the means of knowing the exact numbers, hut he thought it was not too much to state then► at 20,000. The reason of this preference among our men for the American service was, that the Americans gave much better wages. In fact, the great losses sustained in the carrying trade by some of our ship-owners were such, that they were obliged to diminish all their expenses, and wages amongst the number, to the lowest possible scale. The numbers as well as the wages of the crew were diminished, and one effect was, that none but able seamen were employed, so that not one in ten were employed, and there were very few apprentices, so that no provision was made for any exigency which our navy might require from time to time. Ile would not trouble the House with going further into the subject at present, but conclude with a motion, stating the facts to which hehad adverted, and pledging the House to an in quiry the next Session. The Hon. Member then moved, " That it appears by the navigation statements, contained in the Annual Finance of the present year, 1828, now upon the table, that there was registered for the British empire— ships or Vessels. Tonnage. Seamen, 1826 ,24,625 2,635,444 167,635 1827 - 23,195 2,460,500 151,415 Diminution of 1,430 175,144 16,221 " Also that it appears by the same Finance Account, that in 1826, for the British United Kingdom, there Ivere— Ships or Vessels. TOlMage. Sealneci. 20,469 . - 9,382,069 149,89 k 1927 19,035 9,150,464 130,491 Being a Diminution in the Trade of the United Kingdom of 1,434 22!,464 19,400 " That this House will, early in the next Session of Parliament, proceed to inquire into the causes of this ap parent diminution of ships, tonnage, and men, in the com mercial navy of this country." Mr. T. P. COURTENAY considered the present period was too late in the session to enter upon the subject with the hope of any practical result. It was the intention of his Right Hon. Colleague and himself to go into a full consideration of the subject in the recess, and to take a re view of, and to make up their minds on, the whole system of our trade and navigation, our commercial and colonial policy, as if they had- never before given an opinion on them, and that their minds were ut present as respected them a sheet of blank paper. If he were to enter into any controversy on the question at present, it would, he con ceived, interfere with that dispassionate view of the subject which it was their intention to take, and therefore, instead of going now into a discussion, he would move the previous question. The Gallant General had made out no case which would warrant the House in agreeing to the resolution before them. The Hon. and Gallant General had given them a comparison of the number of British ships in 1826 and 18 0 7, to show a diminution, but he had not taken into his consideration the rate of the registrar, which stated, that many of those struck out had been so struck off because they were not in existence. General GASCOYNE—But that does not affect the diminution in the number of seamen. Mr. COURTENAY did not know what the Hon. and Gallant General would have. The number of seamen was sufficiently great for all the purposes of our navy, and for any exigencies that might be required. We had at the present moment twice the number of Commercial seamen which we had before the victory gained by Lord Howe : and there was no doubt, that if occasion required, we should find no difficulty iu obtaining all the force that could be required. The Gallant General, in his view of our shipping forgot to tell the House, that the number of British vessels entering and leaving our ports in 1827 was greater than for some years past ; that the number of ships engaged in the British and foreign trade was greater in 1827 than in the preceding y ear. It could. also be stated that a greater num b er o f B r i t i sh ships passe d t h e S oun d i n the present than in sonic years before, and that there were a greater number employed in the timber-trade.—in short, it could be proved that no year was snore favourable to our shipping than that of 1827. Under these circumstances, and as there were many Members who were anxious to deliver their opinions, who were infinitely better qualified to speak on the subject, he would not trespass farther on the HOtist., but would conclude by moving " the previous question." Ar r . ROBINSON contended that the Honse was bound to entertain the motion. After the treatment which the ship-owners had received last year—treatment such as no oth er body of men who approached that House had ever received—it was too much on the present occasion to say, that there was now no ground whatever fur receiving the motion before them. But the Right Hon. Gentleman had told them that he and his colleague, the President of the Board of Trade, would give the subject their best attention in the recess, and would inquire whether the statement made was founded on fact. He was glad to hear this as far as it went, lint it should be recollected that these were the assertions of men is office, who might not be in offic e next year.—(Laughter.) —H e would appeal to the expe rience of the mutations in the Government for the last - 18 months, whether much reliance could be pliced the declaration of a ntinitler in one session, that lie w,hold t tke a certain cour , e in the next.—(Hear, hear, hear.) 'f he Right Hou, Cientlerfwi said, that here was an in- House, but that vary Act of Parliament which had been introduced by his Right Hon. Friend hiroself.—(Hear.)— But although this registry was made de novo, it was, after All, fallacious to a certain degree, because it was found im possible to rectify the register in sufficient time to make the proper return; hereafter, however, inquiries at the close of every three years were to be sent round to all the ports requiring returns ; and the consequence would be, that they would have.a. least at triennial obituary of the nen employed in British shipping. It was true that his Right Hon: Friend last year, had rested hii arguments on the inaccuracies that had crept into the statements about British navigation ; but he had- not so much as Made an' allusion to' the number of registered vessels on which, the Gallant - General had founded to much of his argument. His Right Hon. Friend had proceeded entirely on other criteria; the real criterion of the question was, what was the actual employment Of the' ships? So that even if they had an accurate account of the number of ships, it would still be fallacious; for they would not be able to tell how far they were . employed, or whether one half or two-thirds of them were lying idle in dock. Ano ther object that they ought to have in view was, to ascer tain the activity of their commerce, and its degree of com petition with foreign commerce. Now, proceeding on the Gallant General's own statement, it would appear, that of British ships which had come in from foreign ports, the tonnage in 1825, was 2,143,000; in 1826, 1,950,000; and in 1827, 2,086,000: while the tonnage of foreign ships under the same circumstances, was, in 1826, 694,000, and in 1827, 751,000. But above all things, the Gal lant General appears to have been struck with the dimi nution of the human race.—(A laugh.) General GAKOYNE observed, that he had referred to the employMent of the seamen. of British ships engaged in the trade of London MA 607,000 ; in 1825, 768,000 • in 1826, 67b,000 ; and in 1827, 769,000 ; and . re' "csels was 3,389 in 1825, and about 4,000 it 1 a large in crease in last year over the great trading year of 1825. (Hear.)—There had likewise been an increase of the vi e . nage of foreign vessels engaged in the London trade, but not to the same amount. In the year 1824 the tonnage of foreign ships trading to the port of London was 264,000 ; in 1825, 300,000 ; in 1826, 215,000 ; and in • 1827, 291,000 ; so that though there was an increase upon both 1824 and 1826, there was a decrease upon 1825. The tonnage of vessels from the Hans Towns was the next sub ject he should allude to, and he should do so because it was said our errors with regard to free trade had thrown most overwhelming advantages into their hands at the expence of this country. In the year 1825, the tonnage of their ships trading to this country was 44,000; in 1826, 29,000; and in 1827, 22,000; so much for the truth of that complaint, which had been directed with such force against his Right Hon. Friend. The same remark might be made with respect to the tonnage of the ships from Prussia into this country, which in 1825 amounted to 176,000; iu 1826, to 112,000; and in 1827, to 106,000. The number of ships of all nations that had passed the sound in 1826 was 11,000; and that number increased in 1227 to 13,000 ; but of that increase the proportion of the increase on British ships was 37 per cent., while that of foreigners was only 8 per cent.—(Cheers.)—He asked whether, under these circumstances, England was to fear the competition of other nations—whether her commerce was in jeopardy from their efforts, when they saw that not withstanding all the disadvantages under which this country laboured, the tonnage in her trading increased beyond that of any other nation, even when their's increased, but also increased when at the same time their's had diminished— (Cheers.)—When our home trade required eight millions of tonnage, and our foreign commerce also a large tonnage, was it for this country to require apparently favourable re strictions, which experience would ultimately prove to be injurious.--(Hear, hear.)—..The more the subject was examined, the more he was convinced it would be found that the result was such as all of . them must wish to find it to be. It would prove that kindness and generosity were not only not injurious to our particular interests, but were the best sources of our commercial and national welfare. (Hear.) Mr. LIDDEL would not follow the example of the Right Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down, by enter ing upon the very intricate and difficult calculations which be had brought forward in his speech. The Hon, Mem ber concluded same further observations, by suppotking the motion. He earnestly hoped that some means might be devised to restore the shipping interests to their pristine situation :—they had been rectumd to their lowest level, and exposed to a most unfair and ruinous foreign competi tion. He conjured the Government to look before it was too late, to the condition of this large and now helples. class of his Majesty's subjects. Mr. POULETT THOMSON denied the expressions attributed to him by the Hon. Member for Worcester. (Mr. Robinson). What he had on a former occasion said, was, net that British ships could he built, but that they could be sailed in competition with foreign shipping. This arose from their greater durability, their cheaper insurance, and the other palpable advantages known to belong to them. As a proof of this superiority, he need only refer to the report of the Committee on Foreign Trade. Now, how did the fact stand as to the comparative business of the British and foreign shipping in the general trade of this country? There had been, as the return of British ship ping showed, an increase between 1824 and 1827, of 556,000 tons, and of 34,466 men, and a decrease of the foreign to the extent of 7,748 tons, and of 1,410 men. And this comparative increase in favour of this country, was observable in the first year of the operation of the new measures, which were said to have inflicted so much evil. There bad been at the same time a great increase of ship building in the colonies; still be denied in toto the peculiar' depression upon which so much stress had been attempted to he laid. He admitted, indeed, that the profits in the shipping trade were much reduced, but he denied that the reduction was in a greater proportion than that of the other branches of general trade. Let any body look at the list of comparative prices, and this would be obvious. In 1825, the price of Jamaica coffee was 915., at present it was '7ls. During the same period cotton (an article of great consumption) had fallen from Is. 61d. to 74d., to bacco from 3,1 d. to 2h-d., olive oil from 545. to 435., Bri tish iron, per ton, from 151. to Si. 17s. 6d., lead from 29/. 10s. to 18/., tin from 101 s. to 765., hemp from 431. to 381., I)autaic timber from 51. Ms. to 41. 155., so that the diminution in the price of shipping had not sunk below its relative proportion. With respect to freights, he found that in 1825, when the highest price was held out owing to the chance if a short supply of all the commodities of the country, and a desire to speculate in obtaining the re quisite substitute, the regular freight for clean hemp from the Baltic was 60s. a ton, at present it was 455. ; of tallow it had fallen from 40s. to 285., thus preserving the same proportion to the level of other articles. If the shipping then had not sunk, as had been asserted, but increased,—if the coasting trade gave employment to 9,000,000 of tons,— if the fisheries employed 40,000—the colonial 822,000 tons— the foreign trade 2,860,000—if, in fact, the general em ployment of British shipping was 11,948,000 tons, how could such a comparatively trifling competition as 75,000 foreign tonnage be said so to have affected them. Then the Hon. Member had said, that the ship-owners were pe culiarly entitled to relief, from the meekness with which they hail borne their depression, and the utter absence of all reproach against the Right lion. Gentleman (Mr. Hos kisson) whose measures were said to have wrought this painful change. What? was the payment last year of 2tlol. from that body for a pamphlet, which did not con tain one half so much argument as it did abuse, no reproach of the Right Hon. Gentrenian ? Was the exhibition the other day in the metropolis, of a sort of general hoisting of flags, at the Right Hon. Gentleman's resignation, which, though felt as a source of joy by them, was yet a cause of deep and profound regret by every well-wisher of his country.; were these demonstrations nothing? He could not indeed treat with sufficient contempt the authors of these attempts at triumph, or with sufficient pity the blind and deluded interests that were made use of on that occasion ? For what were these hired libels--for what was this flag hoist , ins ? A: poor boatman, when he (Mr. Thomson) put the question to him, simply replied—" Because of a gemman going out who won't let us live."—(A latigh.);—This was indeed in the style and tone of the poet's description of the treatment of Sejanus--- CProenteatdu°mmqiuLerbotrovie,na,u;cseiniaenaupistdoulicaitmuargunnucton Spectandus : gaudent manes: qua . ? labra ?. quis 1111 Vultus erat ? nunquam, si quid milli crest's, amavi Hune hmainem sed quo cecidit sub crimine? quisnam " Delator? quibus indiciis ? quo teste probavit ? He might, with the same adherence to truth, finish the quotation— , " Nil horum, verbosa et grandis epistola venit " A Capreis. (Hear.) In justification of the opinions which he had stated to the House, he could quote the authority of Mr. Lyall, a gentleman long at the bead of the shipping interests, and whose name carried with it 'great weight upon such a subject as this. The Hon. Gentleman depre cated the idea, if any such were entertained by the persons now connected with the Board of Trade, of entering anew into the details of this question, and sifting those facts which bad been already so ably sifted and investigated by the great minds of the Right Hon. Member for Liverpool, and Isis Right Hon., Friend the late President of the Board of Trade. To commence such an enquiry de novo would lead to the greatest confusion and mischief. Mr. ROBINSON explained. He could assure the Hon. Member for Dover, that he (Mr. Robinson) had no thing whatever to do with the hoisting of the flags in the ships on the occasion alluded to. He viewed that pro ceeding' as every honest man must have viewed it, with Complete disgust... -(Hear.) Mr. C. GRANT continued—That was the very argu ment that he'wes coming te--(a laugh) :—the Gallant Ge neral's object appeared to be, that more men should be employed than were necessary to do the work.—(hear, bear, and a laugh) —seeking, as it were, to multiply the men, in order to, make a proportional increase in the number of superfluous workmen._(A laugh.)—A com plaint had been made, that the number of men employed in our shipping had diminished, while that of persons em ployed in foreign shipping had increased. He would now make a statement that "would not only show that complaint to be unfounded, but that would actually prove that there had :been an increase in both ; and that it was greater in favour of this country than of other nations. In the year 1825, the total number of men employed amounted . to 228,500; in 1826, to 224,600; but in 1827, that number had increased to 237,400, being an in crease at the end of the thi r d y ear over t h e fi rst of 89,000 wen in employment ; or an increase in 1827 over the preced ing year, of 12,800. In the same three years the number of foreigners employed amounted to 42,700, to 39,900, and to 43,500, which gave an increase in the whole of the three years, of 3,600. Surely it was enough to leave the complaint he had referred to, with no other answer than that which that statement afforded.—(Cheers.)—He admitted that the Shipping Interest was in a state of de pression, but that depression did not arise from a want of employment_for there was abundance of employment— but from the want of a power to derive a profit from it. The truth was, the profits of the trade at present were very low, and he was not surprised that men who in 1825 were making such large profits should now complain, when those profits were so much reduced. But lie should be glad to know whether that depression was not equally felt by all other classes of society ; or whether the Shipping Interest meant to say that they were the only suffeiers in the country ? But as soon as it was ascertained that a particular class suffered distress, was the next step to be that of calling on the Legislature to interpose, not only to secure them employment but to give them increased profits ?---(Hear, hear.)—ln looking at the vast extent of our trade and navigation, it was not surprising that there should be at certain times, between one year and another, a great reduction in its amount; but the matter of sur prise was, that with as many different causes likely to af fect its prosperity, it should yet remain so prosperous.— (flear.)—The House ought to look at the whole of the vast machine, and not at any one particular portion of it ; and if on the whole they saw there was a fa vourable increase of its activity, its power, and its productiveness, they should be satisfied. His Right Honourable Friend had last year presented a statement of the amount of tonnage of vessels that had cleared in wards in this country from the year 1814 to that of /827, both inclusive; and the numbers appeared to be as fol low :—ln 1814, the amount was 1,846,000; in 1825, 2,796,000 ; in 1826, 2,478,000 ; and to that account he should add that for the year 1827, in which the number was 2,777,000 ; shewiug as increase not only upon the tonnage in 1827, but upon that of 1825, which was the year when every kind of trade received so powerful an im pulse. In the same time there had been an increase in the foreign tonnage in the three last years entered inwards in this country. In 1825, the tonnage of foreign vessels en tered inwards amounted to 892,000 ; in 1826, 643,000; and in 1827, 715,000. There was, therefore, in 1827, au increase of 72,000 over the previous year ; but ba that account Ireland was included as a foreign country. In the next account Ireland was excluded, and there the result was the same. He confessed he felt, on comparison of these circumstances, a strong feeling of gratification. He could not regard foreign commerce to this country but as an accession to our general trade. Every vessel which en tered the harbours of this country contributed to our peace ful resources, and went to extend our trade and naviga tion. In the course of last year some accounts had been laid before the House of the state of the British tonnage, founded on averages of years, his Right Hon. Friend having beeu accused of having taken his accounts only on statements of single years. The averages had been taken in the years from 1814 to 1823 both inclusive, from 1824 to 1826 inclusive, and with these accounts he world compare those of foreign tonnage in 1826, and he should add to them the amount in 1827. The average of the tonnage of British vessels entered in the ports of the United Kingdom in the ten years from 1814 to 1823 was, in the first instance, 1,517,000, and in the next 2,086,000, giving an increase of 570,000 tons in 1 1 those years. The increase in the amount of foreign ton nagee during the same time was 200,000 tons, leaving an excess of 370,000 tons in favour of British shipping.— , Taking the next average, the result was, that the increase 811e,83126r71-: i i t was of British shipping was 478,900 tons; that of foreign shipping was 212,000, leaving an excess in favour of the British of 266,900 tons. The whole of the tonnage of British and Foreign shipping, exclusively of the Colonial ships, entered inwards, in 1825, was 1,171,000 tons ; in 1826 it sunk to 934,600 tons ; but in 1827 it rose to 1,2h2,800 tons : so that the amount appeared considerably to have increased beyond that of the speculative and trading year 1825. While; on the other baud, there had been in the amount of the tonnage of Foreign vessels entered in wards here, during the same years, a regular diminution. He was ready to acknowledge that the tonnage employed in the Canada trade had diminished from 427,000 tons, in 1826, to 339,000 tons in 1827. He could only say, he wondered, considering all the circumstances of that trade, that the diminution had not been still greater. It was important to advert to that point, because it was the unsound part of our system, and he could not but think that it was ungracious on the part of the shipping interest to put forward that as a portion of their complaint, when that reduction of the trade must be referred in a great measure to the relative duties on the Canada and Baltic produce. The Committee of 1821 had stated, wit h regard to the competition of those duties, that ~ the interest of the shipowners was most concerned on the present question, while that of the Colonies themselves was much subordinate to it." They added, " Your Com mittee fully concur with those who think that policy re e quires British shipping should be the favourite object of at tention, but they were of opinion that other interests ought not to be sacrificed to its support." lie quoted these opi nions because he thought them materially applicable on this question, and he believed be might add, that the money ' interest to the shipowners was considerable. The differ ence of the duty on the timber from Canada and on that from the Baltic was such, as to favour highly the con sumption of the worse instead of the better timber. He would now come to the coasting trade, in which the num ber of tons amounted to 8,368,000 in the course of the last year. On that amount there had been a small reduc tion, but not such as to a ff ect us. In 1823 the tonnage of the coasting trade (and this account included British nriangeedoan pthoiettliorinshtltiraatde ships t rad ingto l l B re 2 la s n , d) B , ,3 ‘ o 7 o 7 o ,B o l9,ooo ; in 1821 it was 8,11)1,000; i n ( .1 )0 R 0 e ! and in 1827, 8 , 1 86,000. Of that n in ui l n B b 2 er 6 : n tl 97,0 00 ; and in 1828, 141,000. It was worthy of remark, might was hloe 7 tl: o t o st ; ated : in 1825 that the resources of that country remained unimpaired ; the fact was most gratifying in itself—but when coupled with the comparison, which nn one could fail to institute, between her trade and that of this country, it was a reproach to us t t i u l r e n to f n o that such a country should have a trade of only 141,000 tons, while our tonnage amounted to about eight millions. ..--(Hear.)—They ought to bear these facts in their minds, and endeavour, to the.utmost extent, to fulfil their duty towards that country, and to call forth her resources into active and beneficial operation.—(Hear, hear.)—Before he closed his observations, he would say semething with regard to the state of the trade of London. It had been sad, that the proceedings of last year had destroyed that trade ; but the following accounts would show the incor rectness, of that statement. In the year 1824, the tonnage dered that all ships, nn coming. into port, should be registered upon the oath of the captain. The old Registry Act, the 26th of the late King, did not provide for the ships which might be lost at sea, or otherwise destroyed—their registries still remained, but when he came to remodel the registries in 1827, it was plain that thuse ships which were no longer in existence could not be registered de novo. —(Hear. )--Therefore all the shipping which had been lost or destroyed from 1774 to 1827 were omitted in the new registry list. Thereupon the Gallant .General calls upon him to account for the ap parent diminution in shipping between 1226 and 1827. Why the same thing would have happened if the remo delling of the registry act had taken place in 1814, or in any other year.--:(1-lear. )—But his Gallant Friend inquired what had become of the seamen? In reply to this ques tion he weal state, that about a century and a halt ago this House granted A land-tax to the Crown, and tax Commissioners were appointed by King William in every county for its collection. These collectors were appointed. only for the year; and it appeared chat each year the county Members returned to'Government the • names of a number of gentlemen qualified to fill the office. From the period of King William, to the present time, this law had continued unchanged,when at this moment a Bill for that purpose was passing through the House; and it was found necessary to append to that Bill all the names of all tl Commissioners who had been appointed, and of all tl e persons who had been recommended by the several county Members from the time of King William to the present. The Bill in that state had been already read , a third time; it was a mass of such magnitude, that the other Bills on the table would appear but as mere shreds before it ; and, indeed, he shoUld not be the person to move that it should be carried to the Lords by any on- Member of that llouse..—(A laugh.)--Now, if any one prc§ posed to take out of that Bill the names of all those pei sons who were unquestionably dead— such as those appointed in the reigns of King William, Queen Anne, King George 1., 11., and Hon. and Gallant Friend would probably Itareiat the diminished Bill, and ask "what had become of all theComMissioners ?"_....(L aog ht aa . —His Gallant Friend' bad admitted that there was au increase in trade, but be complained that tke expenses in the men and shipping, by which the trade was carried on, had decreased. What then was the manifest object of his inquiry? That the shipping should be employed at higher rates.—that the Country should be Out to greater expense, and that thus all competition with foreign coun tries should be prevented.—( Hear.)—His Gallant Frienl had complained that, by the aid of steam-packets,-e,:aels *ere enabled often a fortnight sooner to get to sea, and that British vessels often made two voyages in one season to the Baltic. His Gallant Friend ought at once' to pass a law to put down steam-packets, and to prevent vessels making more than one voyage in the year to the Baltic. There was an agent in London at present for all th. shipping belonging to the north-east coast of England. That gentleman was Mr. Richmond, one who had closely attended to the interests which it was his duty to watch over; and in a letter which he (Ifr. Huskisson) had re ceived from that gentleman this mornin, occurred the fol lowing sentence:—" It is not from want of employment that we complain ; we have more of that than ever there was. Owing to the consumption of our noble and wealthy country, I am convinced that the importations of 162`i have exceeded those of the farafame:l 1325."—(dear;) — This showed that the shipping interests were in no wain: of employment. He would admit that the shipping in terests, as well as the other interests of this countiy, had latterly made but small progress to prosperity, but that ivas owing to general causes, which all must admit, while the) deplored their exi,.tence. The shipping interests cont- plained, on the one hand, and so did the formers and mann faeturers on the other. It had been over and over again asked. whether, under the present system, British shipping eould stand a fair competition with the ships of other nations. He would answer that question by a statement which bad been put into his hands by one of the members for the city of London (Mr. Alderman Thompson). The ports of Brazil were free ports; and it appeared that trade of Brazil, between Brazil arid Europe, owing to th.- want of »hipping in Brazil, must be carried On either by European ships, or by those of the United Stars. Oac _ _ . - . article of Brazilian produce was sugar. It could not he orought to England on aecouLt of the high prohibitory duties. A great portion of it was exported to Trieste, and the other portion to Hamburgh. Twenty-eight ves sels sailed from Bahia in the last year laden with sugar to Trieste ; and of these four were Austrian, (belonging to the country to which Trieste is attached) ; to o were suedes ; one Russian ; is all seven ; and the remaining ?l were English.—(Hear.) Forty-eight ships sailed to Hamburgh from Bahia during the last year, of these le belonged to Hamburgh, two were Gel mans, one Dutch • wan, one Swede, one Russian, and 23 of them were English. (Loud cries of " hear.") Thus out of 75 vessel , which carried on the trade of the Brazils with Europe, about fifty were English.—(Hear.)—While he had been absent from the House, he had heard that his Right Hop Friend, dared, the his own mind, Vice-Presidentof that of h is ßoardof Trade,Righ thadfind: that Colleague, the president of that Board, who was not present iu the House; were blank neon this subject. did not think, however, that they were persons likely lo adopt any change in the general policy and principle of the 4sumnerce of this country, introduced within the last eight years by his (Mr. Huskisson's) two Noble Friends, now M the other House, and himself. He was sure that his Right lion. Friend, the Vice-President of the Board of Trade. was animated by such liberal feelings, that when lie came to examine into the present system, he would come to th, determination of maintaining and supporting it. Thar system had the approval of the present Secretary of th Home Department. It had the approval of every member of Lord Liverpool's goverumert, and it was entirely ap proved of by Lord Liverpool himself.—(Hear.)—lfe way anxious that it should go forth to foreign nations that this country would not retrograde from that system.—(Hear.) And he was sure that his Right Hon. Friend did not intend to mean, by the expression which had fallen from him, that any change was contemplated in that system. All be would ask was, let the system get fair play. If the blessings of peace could be continued, he was sure that, under that system, commerce, and all the interests connected with commerce, would flourish and improve. A charge had beets made elsewhere by one who, because he had been a diplomatist, assumed the wisdom of a states man, against this country for recognizing the indepeudence of the SouthAmericau States.—(Cheers.)—lt was a tardy wisdom which came in with its advice when fonunately it was impossible to prevent the establishment of the inde pendence of these great and extensive countries. These State!, had unfortunately occupied the relation of bellige rents with one another, and some infractions of the law's of nations had been committed. But had such infrac tions never been committed by this and other civilised countries in a state of war. Why, Old Spain her self had sinned fifty times as much in that way as the countries that had been freed from her yoke. There had not been one case of irregularity corn. mitted by those belligerents on British commerce which had not been made the subject of remon strance. These States when they became more settled ittrt tranquil, he was convinced would add increased wealth to the commerce of this country, and would be in every way productive of the greatest advantages to England. The Right Hon. Gentleman concluded by expressing a hop, that the present commercial system would get fair play, and a fair trial, and be would stake his character and hi., reputation on its success. LordW t W. imemotion. POWLETT io recommended his Gallant F r i ar ' . withdrawto s o o t tl ) l v , e_ t Government, to imputed Member for Dover. by his Right Mon. Friend, the Member for Inver me CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUERto la: Member for Dover seemed to thinii, from some to t T h i e l some thing which had fallen from his Hon. Friend, the Vice 'President of the-Board of Trade, that Government intended Tnacin6las:xiemi:Hautnosh,nde.moonpoirtn opinions os e tn p rso a n r gt whichi o y fh by i h s at A dh l eb a j .eH e e s no ty ni ' n : to abandon the principles with respect to navigation and trade which they had acted on previously to the late Sepa ration; but he could sincerely say, un the pact of those Members of the Administratio n and of himself, that there never was the slightest disposition to abandon those rill eiples.—(Hear.)---Time was only wanting to show how decidedly and unequivocally they would be followed up. Sir M. '\V. RIDLEY should feel it his duty, if his Gallant Friend pressed his motion to a division, to vote against it. Mr. Ht.BKISSON, at this late hour of the night, would not trespass long upon the attention of the House. In preceding sessions of Parliament he had already stated at large his views and principles in reference to'thiti im portant question; and it would be quite impossible for him to add any thi ng t o t h e l uc id and convincing statement of facts whiPli his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Grant) bad laid before the Mouse upon this nosy almost exhausted subject. The lion. Member for Dover had expressed his indignant feelings at the treatment which he (Mr. Huskis son) had received from certain parties. Ile could assure the House that such treatment had in no degree disturbed. the tranquillity of his (Mr. Huskisson's) feelings, and if they paid but 2001. to the writer of the scurrilous pamph let alluded to, he would only say they had measured their liberality by the low rates of freights.--(A laugh.)--Ht' would own that be had been rather startled by the first statement of the Gallant General. The Gallant General commenced by stating, that he was about to discuss..... what ? an abstract naval question with a collateral view to commerce.—(Loud laughter.)—He must acknowledge that his Gallant Friend had wtll performed his words—it b y , " abstract" be bad meant a view of the subject, leaving out all the facts of the case—and he treated the collateral , part of the question with quite as little reserve.._ I (L aug ht er .) --The Gallant Geanral had argued up on w h at would, ou the 80 th of June, move, .4 That a ll d i ad rtu he seemed to consider an apparent deficiency or falling oft' born of slave parents within the British dominin,s, after in the tonnage of the country, and in the numS,er of sea- the Ist of January, 1830, be free."] men ; and his proposition was, that next session they should [Eartartist.]—ln the Parliamentary Report yesterday, i nqu ire Mtn a subject which had been already fully and ea- sir Geuge Murray is represent e d to qh,v e taken hi- -cat, ti4f.ictorily explained. In 1825, he (Mr. Huskisson) felt It was Arr. Arbuthnot. Sir G e orge, who sits for aS„ tch it his duty so consolidate all the complicated acts relating voting, cannot 15 . 41i-turnej t o Purlisture-it r two or tl tee :,hipping, and by one provision then made, it was or- weeks to owe, General GASCOYNE said a wry few words in reply. The gallery was then cleared; but during our absence the motion was negatived without a division. Mr. STANLEY obtained leave to bring in a Bill to amend the law respecting the leasing powers of Bishops and Ecclesiastical Corporations in Ireland. The Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and Ilse House adjourned at Two o'Clock. , ©.~ 1 o•r-: