The Sun. — London, England, 1841-05-19 00:00:00

EVENING EDITION sufficient to meet the demand, nay, that it would furnish sufficient for exportation; if such was the case, where he would ask was the necessity for such a measure as the present, because reduced prices would be obtained by the increased supply of the sugar of the colonies of the country? In former years it was well known the sugar from the colonies of this country was more them suffi erent for the supply of the • United Kingdom, and prices n England, before the experiment he had adverted to, .were the same as in the colonies. He believed the differ ewe between the prices in this country and the con tineutal prices, was to be attributed to the state of the money market in this country. He thought the attempt to introduce this measure, fraught, as it was, with so much danger, was little less than insanity on the earl - of her Majesty's Government.—(Bear, hear.) lint then it was said that the measure came before them, recommended not only because it would improve the finances of the country, but would lead to different fiscal regulations. For his own part he could not see neeything in the principles that had been propounded by eite Chancellor of the Exchequer, that would lead to free trade. He thought that those who wished for applause out of doers —(llear, hear)—ought to state clearly what the real prineiples were on which they intended to act, and that, he would venture to say, her Majesty's Minis ters had not clone. The course the Government was now purning, was, in effect, obtaining votes under false pre teticese—(Hear, hear.) They said they intended to give tteoteeeiote; but, for his own part, he could not see how they intended to carry out such a proposition. In the course of this discussion some observations had been thrown out by Honourable Members, upon what They were pleased to call class interests, as if they ve - re separate interests. Sash, however, was not the case ; for those interests which had been re ferred to were the interests of the country generally. He condemned the impo!icy of legislating for class in terests, as sueh; but they should consider in the first place how much their. W4ll interests, and wealth, and -prosperity, were bound up with these particular classes. if the opinions of the Government were oppposed to such principles, the sooner these places were filled by better men, the better it would be for the interests of ehe country.—(Hea r, hear.) If it could be shown that it would be more beneficial for the country, that the in terests of the landowner should not be protected, then no should be ready to adopt the principles of Hon. Ttrtlithees opposite. If it could be shown that their colonies, by their interchange with the mother country, derived no benefit whatever—that they derived neither -..vealth nor strength- nor advantage from the union, let that be proved to his satisfaction, and lie should no lon ger advecax the protection of a particular class or in ' eereste—•(Hear hoar.) But it was because their well ' le tins:, their safety, and their strengdi were inseparably ?ssnected with that of the general public, that they had judiciouely and wisely extended to them that protection which he believed was for the common interest of all. --(Hear, hear.) Whenever it should happen that the egricultural, the colonial, and the shipping interests of that country would be deemed by the House niulesersing a protection, then he should say that the honour, the • glory, and the power of that great empire would have ressed away. He should give his hearty concurrence to the resolution of the Noble Lord the Member for Liver iool.—(Loud cheers.) Mr. VILLIERS said, during the time he had had the honour of a seat in that House, he did not remember having listened to any lion. Member with more interest than to the Hon. Member for Harwich. The Right Mon. Gentleman had presided over the finances of the country, and according to the general opinion enter tained at the present time, he would do so again. 'Tt became; therefore, matter of much interest to hear the Right Hon. Gentleman's opinion upon the financial p roject before the House, and to hear what he might ad vance against it, or what he proposed to institute in its stead. He did not remember to have been more sur mised or disappointed on any occasion than at the result of his speech. The Right Hon. Gentleman said they vere in a great financial emergency—that they were in a very critical state of their finances, and that that was entirely owing to the feebleness of the present Govern mene. All lie could learn from the Right Hon. Gen- Teman was that he had objected to the proposition of he. Government ; but he did not state anything which he did propose himself. The Right Honourable gentleman had asked whether they really considered that these class interests - were maintained—that •heee monopolies and protections were maintained by law, for the purpose of support of parti cular interests, and not for the •public good. In answer to that question, he (Mr. Villiers) had no objec tion to state that ho believed that it was for the purpose of supporting these particular interests, and against the national good that these monopolies were maintained.— (Hear, hear.) That was the answer which the advocates of free trade offered to the Right Hon. Gentleman. It appeared to him that the Ri g ht H on . G en tl eman h a d only added one to the many reasons that had been urged in she course of that discussion, and if they had gone to a division on the first, second, or third night of the de - bate, he wished to know whether the public could have learned the grounds upon which lion. Members pro eededto the division ? By the protraction of the debate, they had elicited the sentiments of Hon. Members, and they knew the , grounds on which o ppO s itiO n was g i ven to the Ministerial project. Those who complained of the discussion being protracted had to consider under what circumstances the resolution had been moved by the Noble Lord the Member for - Liverpool, and what it was ho proposed to do. It would be observed that the moment predicted by some and denied by others, and the existence of which none could doubt, a moment of great financial difficulty in connexion, with, if not caused by, great commercial embarrassment—that crisis had been alluded to with great levity by some Hon. Members op- • posits, as having occurred periodically since the time of George the Second, and as having in every instance -iseirsedied itself. It was at that moment that the Noble Lojsl took wive/Wage of the period when the Govile-nment g-ifrei•ally expounded tha, state of the finances of the country—at a moment when the Chancellor of the Ex ehequer stated to them that they were in a state of financial difficulty, and proposed certain means by which those difficulties might be met. If he understood the scheme- of the Right Hon. Gentleman, it was this—that inasmuch as the revenue was derived from taxation of the expenditure and consumption of the community, ze maintain that revenue and relieve the community it was important to increase the means of consumption, and improve the capacity of the consumer. It was at such a :moment that the Noble Lord proposed his counter-revo teflon, opposing the scheme of the Government on par - titular grounds. If he (Mr. Villiers) understood the proposition of the Government, it was that fetters and restrictions upon their trade tended toinjure the industry end commerce of the country. It appeared to him that these restrictions had been imposed to benefit and main nin particular interests and monopolies, and they could ,not therefore be surprised that great resistance should be offered to the propositions of the Government.--(Cheers.) But the present intelligence of the country would not longer suffer these things to be done, and it behoved lion. Members opposite not to re- F4sti the measure of the Government on these grounds, , but to suggest some others. Ile did not mean to im pute motives to the Noble Lord the Member for Liver ;old, but it appeared to him (Mr. Villiers) that he had ..;,.ssigned reasons for his resolution which his friends did e--)t maintain. The Noble Lord had contended that, not sithstanding the distress of the country, and the em seraasments of its commerce, there were prior claims in the condition of the negro race in a foreign country. It was clear that the question of the policy of the Go eernment had be en r aise d during the present discussion, and as that Policy involved principles which he had fever lost n.-, opportunity of advocating, he could not exPrJssing his sincere satisfaction that they had ''""n stl, distinctly recognised by the G overnmen t.— t.eht"ers.) Whatever other consequences might flow fr.en tho debate, he believed the discussion would eislablish the truth of these principles, and it was impossible to exaggerate the importance, or . overrate the advantages of adopting the principl es o f - - the Government. • Those principles had been the sub iect of derision end contempt on former occasions in diet House ; and although many Hon. Members on the oppoSite side appeared anxious to proclaim themselves 4lre advocates of free trade, yet it appeared to him that die speech of the Nikle. Lord the Member for North - Lancashire, which had been much relied upon by his - siesids, and much referred to by his party, was caleu ted rather to suppress these Opinions, and to reconcile ,_hose conflicting elements of which his party was corn "ed. It appeared to him, that so far from elucidating the subject the *noble Lord had . thrown it int o greater esnension, and that he had drawn a weapon from the armoury of the Right Honourable Baronet the Mem 'aer for Tamworthe namely, the dressing up. an xgvaient et statement, net to suit. the. House, but upon the House. Noble the purpose of imposing Corti said that he did not advocate the principles et* free trade, to the extent of communities being' per refitted to purchase in the ch e apest markets ,- or of ne , - tavee being maintained for the protection of particular '4 A 3 ; brit on the other hand. he endeavonred to vindi ' tate himself from being the advocate of monopoly. The Noble Lord said that his principle was competition, ttilaject to limitation, or limited by protection. Now, lie vented to know how that was inconsistent with mono-. 1 y, or any, protective policy in existence ? The land-. 144.1.1 might ask him what he meant by competition United by protection, and his answer would be the pre . e.ent Corn-law. The West Indian interests might ask gam *bat he meant by it, and his answer would he the !resent protective duty on foreign sugar. In the 6 - ram way his answer to the shipping interest might be, that it would enable them to pay a high price for rotten ,t3enber. In short, there was no injury to their interest rich might. not be defended by the definition of Noble Lord's principleS of commercial policy. Ahe question of protection tn:wt now be discussed. • .sery person mnst state.what he meant by that term. Ti :vas a question now before the. House and the country. ..t had been defined by many who had experienced—who had paid attention to the subject, as a tax on the corn enmity for the benefit or advasitage of particular classes. sf'shere were persons who held a different opinion on be subject, new was the time- to state them. The public • ere watcing anxiously to hear what each person would say, and they would . judge them according to their atements. Men of experience • and information who h a d been examined before Committees of that House ~. ad defined srotection as something indefensible regard ing the public interest, and as existing only for the be eefit of particular classes. The Noble Lord the Mein- Per for North Lancashire said that h e was es* for free trade, but for competition, subject to protection ; but the Government themselves ' , Tlmposed nothing else—their object was protection. Now, It was necessary for those who supported Govern - "lit to kiiow distinctly what the Government meant by protection. .11e (Mr. Villiers) did not collect from the ... ) tkenh of the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies, e;itt he undenstood by protection some object which it was desirable to attain. The Noble Lord did not view leetection as an end, but. Villiers) underst , -so as a means to some end. Us what - to be folluded nt c h l the' proposition of the Govern e principle of , free trade. He tinferstood the Government to say with respect . to cer- taro restrictions which exist under the system of protec tion, we will deal tenderly with them, but our principle is liberty to commerce, and the ultimate removal of those restrictions. He did not understand from aeytliing which fell from Hon. Gentlemen opposite that th y took the same view of protection. They took a view consistent with that of the Right Ho. ourable Member for Harwich (Mr. Herries) that it was necessary to protect certain classes.—(Hear.) He (Mr. Villier) begged further to state, that he considered that system of protection as most unfair and unjust, when applied to this country; particularly so when not applied generally, and as regarded the persons who were made the exceptions. The landed proprietors, the West Indian planters, and the ship-builders, had no more right to the laws which protected their several interests, than the working men had to laws which should protect them against the application of machinery to the produc tion of manufactures. They knew that claims had been ad vanced by the working classes to be protected against the use of machinery, and that a notion prevailed among those people that they had a right to such protection; and they were not wrong, according to the principles advanced and supported by some Honourable Gentle men with respect to protection. But the claims of these poor men were met as if arising from their ignorance. There was not a particle of the grounds on which they were refused the protection they sought, that was not adopted by Hon. Gentlemen who made that refusal. Railroads might be objected to on the same principle on which the proposition of Government was opposed. They involved the ruin of many individuals residing in towns on the old lines ; but why were they, nevertheless, established ? On the principle that the general good ought to be preferred to that of particular classes. The principles to which he now gave utterance he had, on former occasions, when he brought forward the question of the Corn-laws, professed and expressed in that House, and he repeated them now only because the public attention was at the present time particularly di rected to the subject—because the public mind was ex cited on the matter, and because those who maintained opposite principles were obliged to enter into a vindication of them. He knew not why it was the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth's speech on the pre sent occasion was so anxiously looked forward to. The Right Hon. Baronet had spoken on this subject on vari ous occasions. Perhaps the anxiety arose from the belief that circumstances had so far changed that some change 'must have also taken place in the Right Hon. Baronet's opinions. If the Right Hon. Baronet opposed the motion of the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies—if lie opposed all change in the Corn-laws, lie would be per fectly consistent, because the Right Hon. Baronet had opposed every Committee of Inquiry into the subject. There were no circumstances under which a Committee on that subject had been . proposed in which the Right Hon. Baronet had not given his .opposition to the pro position " under those circumstances.' But the Right lion. Gentleman had.. however, by something which he he had said ; excited hopes and expectations in some of his commercial friends, and hence the intense interest that existed as to the opinions which he might now ex press. It was high time that this question should be decided some way or other. The pretexts were so vari ous which had been urged against the consideration of the subject, that the time had arrived when the persons who opposed the motion must say they had some other grounds than those hitherto assigned. One of the grounds stated by one of the Hon. Members for York shire for supporting the Corn-law monopoly was, that they were not so weak as to abandon an advantage which they had the power to maintain. That was the real state of the question—it was a question between the rights of the people and the power of the landlords. There were not ten people out of that House—nor any within it—who believed that the resolution of the Noble Lord the Member for Liverpool (Lord Sandon), contained the real ground of objection to the motion before the House. The question was not dis cussed on that ground. It was on the ground that great changes were expected, and that the measure was pro posed by . her Majesty's Government, that the approach ing division was about to take place. The people of the United States had the same right to exclude our manu factures from their ports as we to exclude slave-grown sugar from this country. And it was not improbable that they would exclude our manufactures in conse quence of their aversion to our Corn-laws. He had a few days ago received a paper from America, in which it was stated that they took the same view of our Corn laws that we did of their system of slavery—that the merchants and farmers regarded the Corn-laws ofEngland and the slave trade as belonging to the same class of establishments. The Hon. Gentleman read a long ex tract from an American pamphlet which he had lately received, in which the weiter spoke of the Corn-laws of England as prejudicial to the people of this country, and such a nuisance to the people of other. countries, that it became incumbent on the United States to consider whe ther they should not take some public measure to obtain a repeal of those, and show their sense of their injustice. What had been :the policy of Hon. Gentlemen on the other side with respect to other countries in which sla very existed with many aggravations ? What had been their favourite policy with respect to Turkey, but to preserve the integrity of the Turkish empire, on which was supposed to depend the balance of power ? We knew that slavery existed in Turkey, under ciroum stances of greater aggravation than in the West Indies. We had become more familiar with, during our recent in tercourse with that country, yet we had made no stipu lations for preventing the slave-trade, and not an argu ment had been advanced on the other side on this ground against our policy.—(Hear, hear.) And so it was with the East Indies. The present resolution had been seconded by an East Indian Director, yet the organ of the Company, at the present time, was filled with details of East India slavery—(Hear, hear)—which was winked at, or openly countenanced by, the Company's servants. What then were the people of England to think if they were not to I be allowed to onsume a necessary article of life, be cause I they were noio be allowed to consume slave produce ? What were they to think of it when the present motion was supported by those who were recently indemnified for the sacrifice of their property in slaves , when it was supported by those who were actually owners of slaves, and sharers in the profit arising from their labonr. Why in the world was the British House of Commons to stop an intercourse with other countries pn such grounds as those which were put forward ? Would it not be seen that such a proposition could only have originated in party views. —(Hear, hear.) He had been told of some great experiment being made, and that they ought not to disturb it, for that the interests of humanity was involved in its success. This was a great mistake, So far as he understood the experiment, it was whether a portion of the African race was capable of being free, and whether they had any taste for the arts of civilised life. The experiment was made, and it was shown all the statements to the contrary were 'fallacious, made for the purpose of keeping fellow-creatures in bondage. The experiment was made at once in Antigua, one year before the emancipation of the slaves ; and this circum stance constituted the difference between one island and another. In Antigua the population found it easier to obtain work, and were willing to work for wages ; and and they would find this to be the case wherever the quantity of labour rather exceeded the supply than the demand. When we emancipated the slaves, we never inidertook to guarantee the planter against all the con tingencies that might arise from the difficulties of ob taining labour.. The difference between the islands did not arise from the emancipation of the slaves, but from the difference in the fertility of soil and other circumstances.—(Hear, hear.) There was another topic in the proposition of the Noble Lord (Sandon) which he could not sit down without referring to, namely, that this was not only a question of slavery but also a question of the adequate supply of sugar. The Noble Lord implied by his resolution, that if the supply of sugar was not adequate, we might then allo w slave produce to come in, and the Noble thereby implied that the present supply was adequate, that is, that this necessary article of consumption was , cheap enough. That was quite sufficient to raise the question of what was the condition of the people of this country. He thought the Noble Lord must have overlooked, or must, be totally ignorant of what was the state of the country where he considered that any article of neces sary consumption was cheap enough.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Villiers) believed that there never was a period in the history of this country in which the people were worse off than at present, and had been for the last two years. He had with him abundant details of the greatest physical sufferiugs that were now being endured by the poor of the country. The Hon. Member for. Finsbury had supplied the House with details of this kind, and he (Mr. Villiers) should occupy the House to the, end of the week were he to read to them those with which he had been supplied. He would not, however, occupy mu c h ti me of the House with those details, but 1 lett - Ulla not help adverting to the sufferings in some of the districts with which he was acquainted. He was in 'formed by a communication dated the 10th of May instant, that at P reston t h e number of empty houses was 1,220 ; that the 'increase of the_ number of paupers who:receive out-d oor re li ef from the pariah from 1837 .to 1840, was 83 per cent., and from 1837 to 1844 127 per cent., being an increase of 40 per cent., while the in-door relief was c on ti nue d"- i n the usual r i p opol t'on. During this time lar ge su b scr i pt i ons had been-na-de and l 1,320 women received var i ous art i cles of bedding' It was the opinion of som e wh o were connected h . this charity, that 2,000 families, consisting of 10,000 indi viduals, had not a single blanket to cover them. Th e Chaplain of the House of Correction stated that crime had increased 30 per cent., while it was impossible to say how many were subsisting by beggary. The Wages on some of the trades were decreased 10 per eent. with in the last three months, and 25 per cent, since 1832. Many of the trades kept up their wages by Unions and combinations, but tiiie class were trampin g 'abo u t t h e country. At Bolton it was stated that the mills, amonp which were those of the Hon. Meniber for that pla,e7, and employing no less than 14,000 persorre were but for a very sluirt time ; ; thatat,l3la,Chhurn there were four mills that „were not working; and that a, fire proof- mill. with its machinery,. which a short time ago !cost 50,000/.., had been recently sold for 15,000/. , It wag Stated also, that at-Little:Bolton 300 house-, were visited; eon taiaino• 500 beds; end that in 'one of them'hiettstS they found twenty-three persons without a bed; ei g ht, who slept in one bed ; forty-two who - slept ,in seven beds ; seventy-eight who slept in six beds ; 185 who slept in fire beds ; 432 who slept in four beds ; and 582 who slept in three beds ; that there was I,o2s_per sons whose average income was below Is. 6d. per week ; 359 whose average income was below 2s. a week ; and 165 whose average income was below ls. Gd. per week, The Hon. Member also read-statements from Oldham, Nottingham, LeiceSter, and other places, of the existence of similar distress at those places, one. of which stated that a cow having died and been buried, the owner a day and. a half afterwards was besought by a number of women to allow them to have the carcass for their families ; and that upon his yielding to their impoktunity, they disinterred the carcass, and devided it among them, and 'afterwards declared that it was the only meat they had tasted for many -years. The Hon. Gentleman then, read an extract, the report of Mr. Hickson, a Govern-, . . ~ ~~ THE SUN, _LONIION, WEDNESDAY, MAY 19, le4l. ment Commissioner, as to the state of the poor in Ireland, in which the Commissioner said tint he had heard the question asked among them, which was the most contrary to the will of God; to extinguish the life of their children, before they had arrived at the knowledge of good and evil, or to give a nominal consent to their existence, end to sec that for them the earth had not brought forth its increase. He (Mr. Villiers) wished to inquire, when we were boasting of the value of our possessions, of what value were they to these unfortunate people ? (Hear, hear.) We called upon them for taxes for the protection of our possessions in the East and West Indies ; but he wished to know of what advantage were they to a people who were starving ? Of what advantage were they to the poor, when if it was proposed to ex tend to them some of the comforts they produced, they were told that they could not enjoy them because it was essential to protect and maintain monopolies ?—(Hear.) In contrasting the condition of the slaves with those who suffered so much, he would refer the House to the works of a writer who possessed great experience of the state of the working classes, and whose writings con tained much truth, most powerfully stated—he meant Cobbett, who said, " Poverty, after all, is the great badge of slavery ; weary bones and rags are the true marks of real slavery. What is the object of Govern ment but to cause men to live happily, which cannot be without a sufficiency of food and raiment ? There can be no morality, no v irtue, no sincerity, among . people who are continually pining for want, and it is cruel in an extreme degree to punish them for crimes that are not theirs, but are brought about by their all-controlling necessities." It might be said that these were the opinions of a democrat, and that they were not worthy of attention, but he should read the opinion of a high Tory, Mr. Southey—(Cheers)—who said that we had arrived at a state in which the inequality of con ditions was intolerable, and that, if a remedy were not applied, a war between the poor and the rich was in evitable.—(Cheers.) What an increase of misery had taken place since Mr. Southey wrote this !—(Cheers.) He (Mr. Villiers) had made no exaggerated statement of the condition of the people. He should be happy to hear it proved they were not so miserable—(Hear, hear) — that it was not owing to the state of trade that they were so, and that the state of trade was not 'owing to the re strictions on our commerce. As he stated last year, the manufacturers asserted that all the misery was owing to their not - being allowed to exchange their produce with other countries—that their warehouses were bursting with food sent from America and other countries, and that they were ready to take that corn for goods already sent to America and those other countries.—(Cheers.) They said that if they were allowed to do this they were ready to execute further orders for the same kind of food. —(Cheers.) He hoped they were going to a division.— (Cheers.) He hoped to a dissolution.—(Great cheering from both sides.) He hoped the names of the majority would appear to-morrow.—(Renewed cheering.) He did not say that he wished Hon. Gentlemen opposite to be marked, but he wished that the people at large should have an opportunity of seeing what were the constituen cies those Gentlemen represented.—(Loud cheers.) The people complained that they now represented sinister and sectional interests. On the contrary it was insisted that the people were virtually represented, and that they had influence o v er the electors, who were only their trustees.—(Hear, h ear .) He said, then, if ever there was an occasion when the people ought to judge of the conduct of existing consti tuencies, this was the occasion. —(Hear, hear.) Nobody was less desirous than he of disturbing the Con stitution of this country, but those who had the elective franchise should see that justice was done to all classes alike.—(Cheers.) And it was coming to this, that if the House did not do justice to the people, the people would do justice to themselves.—(Much cheering from both sides of the House.) The question before the House had been treated as if it were whether one set of men should take office instead of another ; but nothing had been said from the other side as to the good which they would do for the people.—(Cheers and laughter.) The present Ministers proposed those excellent measures ; and, before he consented to give his vote for another set of men, he must at least have some intimation that they meant to do some thing better. In the course of the debate he had heard nothing of the kind from gentlemen opposite.—(Cheers, and laughter.) He had heard one say that no distress existed—(Hear, hear)—another that those measures would increase it, and another that it would be best cured by leaving it to itself.—(Cheers.) It struck him that there were now three parties in the State—one of which thought that no justice should be done to the people—(Cheers)—another which admitted that justice was not done to them, but that it ought to be done, and that it could be done under the present Constitution.— (Cheers.) The third party consisted of those who were hourly increasing in numbers and strength, and who thought that justice was not done and would not be done without a change in the Constitution.—(Hear. hear, and cheers.) At the head of the second party he con sidered that the Noble Lord had placed himself. He wished to preserve the constitution and to do justice to the people. In advocating the common weal against the interests of a class, he had assumed a post that became his name and disposition.—(Cheers.) He had done so before and he had succeeded—he would do so again, he was was satisfied, for he would go forward earnestly and with spirit becoming the occasion.--(Cheers.) He would not be daunted by the reproaches of those who opposed themselves to the interest of the community.—(Hear, hear.) Nor would he heed the silly twaddle that he was causing dissensiod amongst different classes of so ciety by the reforms he proposed. That was not the fault of those who assailed unrighteous laws like these. —(Hear, hear.) It was one of the cursed consequences of such laws that they did set one class against the other, and required a fearful struggle to obtain their repeal.—(Cheers.) That was an argument for tyranny at all times, and of every kind ; that was as good in 1641 as it is in 1841. That did not influence those who resisted the encroachments of the Crown at that time, when the question was like the present one, unjust taxa tion.—(Cheers.) He would not believe that the commer cial and industrious classes would prove themselves de- generate sons of those who had established liberty in this country, and sown the seeds of liberty in the other hemisphere ; and the Noble Lord, he was sure, would not suffer himself to be reproached with having with held from them an opportunity of fully and fairly ex pressing their opinion on the subject.—(Cheers.) The Hon. Gentleman sat down amidst much cheering., Sir EDWARD KNATCHBULL would not be sorry that the debate should continue for seven nights upon so important a question—that it should be understood in all its bearings, but for the injury which had been done to the most important interests of the country by the suspense in which they had been kept.—(Loud cheers from the Tories.) The Ministers were to blame for not having used their influence in preventing the time of the House from being so much occupied.—(Hear, hear, hear.) With respect to the calculations of the Chancellor of the Exchequer as to the produce of the sugar duties, he had no doubt they would be realised, if the quantity of sugar from the colonies alone would yield the anticipated re venue. But the effect of the measure would be to en- courage in foreign countries the horrid and inhuman practice of slavery, which at so much expense we had suppressed in our own possessions.—(Hear, hear.) But, even if the measure were in itself advisable, it ap peared to him•to have been brought forward at a most improper moment. Indeed, he could only look upon it as a party expedient, tending needlessly to agitate the country ' • for Ministers could not hope to carr y ou t th e i r policy. On the timber question the feeling of the people of Canada was opposed to them, and the people of that country could not be denied their just claims upon that subject. With respect to the Corn-laws, he begged leave to say,. that the duty ought naturally to vary with the price of corn in any sound system of . protective policy ; and that was the opinion of Mr. Canning: What did the Hon. Member for Marylebone (Sir B. Hall) . say last night ? He said that he supported the Ministerial measure, becouse it would lead, in his opinion, to a total abolition of all protecting duties. That. was the motive which actuated many of the Ministerial supporters, The Hos, Member for Wolverhampton (Mr. Villiers), who was not then present, had made some severe comments on the landed interests in regard to that subject, and he (Sir E. Knatchbull) thought it was unfair of the Hon. Member, after the course he had taken in his speech, to retire from the House before an answer could be given to it. That Hon. Member had entered into details showing the sufferings of a large portion of the labouring classes ; but Hon. Gentlemen on that (the Opposition) side of the House were not less anxious to _ alleviate those suffer- ings than the Hon. Member for Wolverhampton or any of his party. A repeal of the Corn-laws could not materially benefit the labouring classes, for if it diminished the price of corn it would equally diminish the rate of wages, and would place the .labourer in no better condition than at present. The .army, the navy, and all the public establish ments would certainly reduce their expenses in propor tion as the price of corn might fall ; and he had no doubt but private individuals would imitate the. ex ample. He was sure that it those laws were repealed this country would one day have reason to regret a Course of proceeding which left her at the .mercy of foreign nations for her supply of food. It had been com plained of by the ,Bight Hon.. the Chancellor of the Ex chequer that the Hon. Gentlemen on the Opposition Benches had not explained the- course which they would recommend under the present circumstances of the look country fer ; b a dv u i e t eh toe had never m heard ‘vhu that t a Ministry hey habitually ho udl dif fered. It was the business of a Ministry alone to advise the Crown, and Parliament as to the policy which it would be f uel s t e t e t to adopt eexpe , i a e n n tl t. _ t o ( ri p e r a o r p: f ) r u e n el d t h t h e e Ministerialm e asur measures h w e i n t e i c h h e s . i ) t He did not, however, despair of the fortunes of his country. He placed the most implicit reliance on the spirit, the ind,guleat, and the patriotism of the people. of England.— (erkeer.; on both sides of the House.) He knew that there were in this country men-of sound sense ; and he 'would repeat that he did therefore confidently hope in the maintenance. of our prosperity. 'Ho believed that with a strong and efficient Government they would be enabled to uphold the &pity, promote the welfare, and seeure the happiness of all classes of her Majesty's sub jeCtS.7-(Cheers.) . ~ , . . Ur. CHARLES BULLER had never in the course of his life felt so keen a disappointment in listening to - any speech ,in that House as he had in listening, to e th le e se sp e e t e . c hs h i o a f d t dess h r eßßaronet, Right Hon. in which, at the that information of w h h e ich fi , nn in ly given them some hope.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.) lie a n d - a j s eur a t s un to e n e is t h . e e l the ed course of en it i , e l d ie th h eLn i must confess, always listening with the greatest de light to the speeches of the night Hon: Baronet, he 1 when,the l House. o rda 2t 9 he h aying previousmoved he should, when called upon to address the House in .its se(cf:tit)rliet.eesßttwi Bugler's) ie,.ilmevreh, moments eso)rfse tifhd , ge w eine a no i tf ‘ i 1 - l e eatmdh h ec i s s tip r ; i oivk g oi :hue:, House; jo he doasn wishedh . ii s o o it tit , llhd o ti nt rise speakt then,l ieg v ot oetrin:itrail evening, the dress . it.- . .-.(Cheers and laughter.) -. He supposed the Right gen. garonet,not having met with any single ..an- ; tagonist worthy :rf.ins powers, had determined to reply to twelve gentlemenitt once, and to spit all of them on his lance.—(Cheers and laughter.) He was more willing to suppose that than to give credence to a rumour that the Right Honourable Gentleman had remained silent tinder coercion —(Cheers and laughter ; " Oh, no," from Sir E. Knatehhull ; and renewed laughter) —that he had been induced to refrain, least he should make some inopportune disclesures.—(Cheers and laughter.) The Right Hon. Baronet, in the course of his s2eech, had said the time was now come when it would be right for them to speak out.—(Cheers.) The countenances of Gentlemen on his (Mr. Buller's) side of - the House had, at the commencement, been gilded with the. expression of hope ; the hungry sheep had looked up, but they had not been fed.—(Cheers and laughter.) The countenances of the Right Hon. Baronet's paulo post futuritm colleagues--(A laugh)—had fallen in terror at the thought of the imprudent revelation which they dreaded.—(Cheers and laughter.)—But neither the hope nor the terror was destined to have long endurance. The Bight llon. Gentlemen had said that the time was now arrived when gentlemen opposite should speak out as to what they thought of certain doctrines which had been laid down by the Hon. Member for Wolverhampton. He had called upon them to say what they thought, not what they would do. On that point he supposed the Right Hon. Baronet was satis fied with the revelations of the Budget. —( Cheers and laughter. ) The Right Hon. Baronet had said that he should confine his observations within a narrow compass and certainly if by a narrow compass he meant a compass quite outside the question in debate, lie had done so, for not once in the course of his speech had he alluded to the sugar duties. He (Mr. Buller) should not follow the Right Hon. Gentleman through all the topics which he had introduced into his speech. He hoped they would have another opportunity afforded them when they might discuss with more propriety, according to the rules of House, the question of the Corn-laws—(Loud Ministerial cheering)—and when the Right Hon. Baronet would have an opportunity of describing the terrible state to which the country would be reduced, by becoming a series of smiling pastures studded with towns, and the horrors which might be expected to overwhelm us when war should become unknown. —( Cheers and laughter.) The Right lion. Baronet had taunted :41embers on his side of the House with their inconsis tency. He wondered how the Right lion. Gentleman could talk of inconsistency. He wondered that when his lips at tempted to utter that word they did not reuse to form the syllables, and come out with the words " mall tax" instead. The Right Hon. Gentleman had complained of the spirit of de ception in which these measures had been brought forward. In fact, his opinions might be summed up in his old motto " Nusquarn: tuts fides."—(Loud cheers and laughter.) It was not his intention to depart from the principle which had been observed by the House by going minutely into the subject be. fore it.—(Cheers.) The arguments in support of the propo sition of her Majesty's Government were so exceedingly special es hardly to allierd matter for a very lengthened debate, and, above all, the resolution of the Noble Lord not to take any slave produce, seemed to him to be so completely the essence of the most refined fanaticism, that he could not seriously discuss it. The principle was worth nothing unless it was consistently acted up to, and to realise it we must confine ourselves rigidly to the use of articles the produce of free labour. Now, he could not seriously discuss this question, because, he believed that the supporters of the Noble Lord's resolution did not value their consistency on that point as much as they did a pinch of snuff.—(Cheers and laughter.) The arguments of those who supported the sugar monopolies, were the extra vagant and absolute arguments:, by which a protective trade had always been defended, and on this occasion they had even been carried higher, for it had been contended that we were bound to maintain those high duties, not only for the purpose of maintaining but of creating a protective trade, for what else were the arguments brought forward on the subject of East India sugar ?—( Cheers.) At any rate that was not an esta blished or ancient trade—that was not a vested interest. Until very recently our laws had discouragedthe preductionofsugar in that country, but now the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite came forward with a poetical description of the valley of the Ganges, and said that it ought. to be devoted to the cultivation of sugar, and that for that purpose the sugar trade should pr o t ec t e d! For whose benefit he would ask ?—for that of some great capi talist, perhaps, who might be induced to divert his capital from the West to the East Indies; but would any one tell him that it would be for the advantage of the poor native of Hin dostan that he should be induced to devert his industry solely to the purpose of raising sugar fur the English mar k e t ? It would be the greatest curse that could be inflicted upon the natives of India to tempt them to raise sugar, not for the market of the world, where they might improve by meeting with competition, but for the protected and confined market of the mother country, thus making their dependant upon every fluctuation in our commercial poliey.—( Cheers. ) We haareflected many injuries upon them ; we had needlessly in terfered with their prejudices; we had ground them down with taxation, we had destroyed their manufactures of cotton and muslin, but there were one curse greater than all whioh we might inflict upon them, and that Was in fostering an artificial and protected industry.—(Cheers.) Those who argued in support of the West Indian monopoly, said that after all monopoly was the best way . to support lowness of price ; that after an indefinite time, if they were sufficiently protected in the West Indies would furnish an ample supply of sugar. But that was not the high argument which was put forward that they should foster the growth of sugar in the West Indies, in o.der to prevent the production of sugar by slave labour. Now, no man, he thought, could be chimerical enough to suppose that by refusing the sugar of the Brazils, they should put an end to slavery in that country. The only reasonable ground advanced in support of the monopoly, was that it was desirable to continue it to give the experiment of emancipation fair play. That was a most dangerous policy, because it was leaving the success of that experiment upon a result which must disappoint them. When they freed the slaves e thereeult ought to have been foreseen e that the industry of the blacks would be transferred from exportable products to articles of consumption. It was not to be expected but that in Jamaica, when the old sugar lands, were worn out, and vrhen there were plenty of other lands, the blacks should take to the cultivation of other products, and the exports of super should, consequently, decrease. In Antigua and Barbadoes, where there were no waste lands and plenty of labo u r, th e . ex- , ports had not diminished; while in Demerara, Berbice, Guiana, and Trinidad, where the lands were not worn out, tha proprietors expressed themselves as not fearing the competi tion of the Brazilsif they could get a supply of labour. Mr. Burnley, in Trinidad, had said at a public meeting in that island, that if they would remove all restrictions, he would be ready to enter into a competition with the whole world; but that gentleman had net slumbered under the tree of protec tion, but immediately upon the emancipation had taken mea sures to procure a supply of free labour. But it was not, after all, on these special grounds that the question was to be argued ; it was not even on the ground of revenue, but it was on the necessity of adopting such principles of free trade as should not only maintain the existing markets but open up new ones to the great export trade of this country. When gentlemen talked so lightly of our foreign markets did they re member what it was that enabled us to maintain a more vast population and a greater extent of comparative comfort than any country in Europe? It was our export trade.—(Hear, hear.) Between 1811 and 1821 the population of this country had increased by 875,000 families, of these 65,000 Only had been added to the agricultural class. Be tween 1821 and 1831, while the agricultural class had actually decreased in numbers, the population of the country had increased by 475,000 families, so that altogether there were upwards of 500,000 families, containing about two mil lions and a half of human beings, depending upon other em ployment than agriculture. Now, how could they be main tained except by manufacturing for the export trade -(Loud cheering)—and if they distroyed existing markets, and failed to raise up new ones, our population must beCome the most beggarly in the world. Our trade with the Brazils, and the United States were now in jeopardy. Both countries, in the revision of this tariff, threaten retaliatory measures. Under these circumstances, it was the duty of the Governmen to tell the House they could not keep up the present system, but must have free trade, that the people might live. A great deal had been said about the present being an inconvenient time. lie had ever found that the time proposed was ever the most in convenient to those who had to give up their privilege.— ( Cheers and laughter.) But he would ask them if last year, when sugar was dear, the measure had been proposed they is ould not have called it precipitate; and with regard to the Corn-laws if the abolition had been proposed during a moment of fa mine, then they would have been swept away ; but without any regard to existing interests, without even the protection at which Hon. Genvlemen opposite affect to sneer. Gen tlemen opposite affect to sneer at what they called the agita tion of the Corn-law question. For himself he could only say that the effects produced by the Government proposition had been greater than he had anticipated. But they should recollect that it wax the nature of' such excitement to go on in - creasing.—( Cheers.) He trembled for the consequences if they were allowed to go on. But the sin of maintaining the ex citement rested not upon those who had brought for ward the question to relieve the distresses, and to in crease the resources of the country, but upon those who refused to co-operate wi•li them, who put an extinguisher upon the measures proposed to alleviate the troubles of the country, and who defended a monopoly which pressed with such horrible effect upon the great mass of their countrymen. —(Cheers.) They had not succeeded in eliciting from Gen • tlernen opposite the course they would pursue; they had not stated whether they would maintain all existing monopolies, or whether, which, judging from the cautious plan they had pur sued, might be the case, as it had been heretofore, arid they had opposed as an Opposition those concessions which they would grant when in power.—(Clvgrs.) He hoped that so unworthy a course would not again be adopted—(Loud cheers)—and he hoped that Hon. Gentleman having attempted to displace the Government, would let the country ace on what grounds they were proceeding, and on what principles they. intended to con duct the Government, if, unfortunately, they should obtain it. There was one thing in the power of the Gevernment, and he trusted that they would attain that end. They might force the Gentlemen opposites to say what they intended to do, if not by words, by their votes. They could only prove their sincerity in the propositions they had laid before the House by the perseverance and determination which they showed in carrying them out. Whatever imputation might be thrown upon their motives, and abundant imp utatio ns were always thrown out b y those who wire in the expectation of succeed ing to office, but the country would not heed them. -The peo ple would see that the Government was engaged in a great popular cause, which would justify a great and even unusual struggle. Let them force the lion. Gentlemen opposite to state whether, if they wou ld not grant cheap sugar. would they grant cheap timber—( hear, hear)—and b wou ld they grant cheap coffee;ut, above a ll, f orce them t o if neither of th ose, say whether, they would grant them c h eap b rea d . —( L o ud cheers.) Perhaps in the course of that di scuss i on t h ey m i g ht extract ,from them, or it might be l e t f a ll i na d vertently, h o w it was that they intended to provide f or th e nat i onal expen diture, and if they refused to make up th e d e fi c i ency b y diminishing the burdens of the people, let th em at least explain• what new burdens they in tended to place upon the co untry.—( Cheers. ) He could not hav e any doubt of what the issueof the stenggle would be. He was old enough to remember when the advocates of a ma.-- sure were in a small mince ity in on' year, which measures was carried by acelarnat ioti in the following, but he bad never seen a permanent failure of any popular cause, when taken up by any great party in that Howe. The advocates for the repeal of these duties never battled under better auspices than now. —( Loud cheers ) They had on their side the unanimous , opinion of every writer and thinker on the subject. —(Cheers, and cou n t er .cheers.) Ho r e p eated, of ever y writer and thinker of any eminence on the subject ; but above all, they had on their side the wants and urgent necessities of the people—thei r sense of justice, their revolting sense of the injustice which had been committed upon them in being so heavily taxed for maintaining the luxuries of the aristocracy. Those fighting u n d er a stan d ar d like that, were sure to con quer.—(Loud cheers.) Sir ROBERT PEEL—Mr. Speaker, this, Sir, is not the first time that I have had occasion to feel the extreme ember ia.snient of being called upon to address the House when every argum ent h as been exhauste d, and tchen the inge nuity 'of those who have preceded me had availed them selves of ever topic that Could • pressed into :the dis cussion ; and I would have been perfectly, content to re linquish any claim that I may have on the attention •of the House, but that. I feel that the House must see that I have no alternative than to prefer that claim—that I should not permit this debate to close without giving an expression of my s entiments.--(Loud cheers.) And as I feel that I have rus, alternative left but to address the Houses I tr u s t t hat, withOt, 4 allowing party feelings to interfere, the House Will grant me' a • patient hearing.—, (Cheers.) Sir, I shall first address myself te that which is the proper subject of debate on this occasion, viz., the question which is involved in the resolution of my Noble Friend. Sir, that resolution embodies an opinion on the part of this House that, considering the sacrifices which you have made for the abolition of the slave trade and slavery, we ought not to sanction the proposal for introducing into the markets of the United Kingdom sugar the produce of slave labour. And, Sir, after all the reflection which I have given to the subject, and which it so eminently &Mends, my opinion remains the same, that it would not be for the interest or the honour of this country—(Loud cheers)—to open our ports to sugar, the produce of slaves. Sir, I -shall give my vote on this abstract question apart from any other consi deration. If upon this occasion I heard nothing of the Con laws—had nothing been said respecting the timber duties, I should have been prepared—without reference to any Other con sidei ation—l should have been prepared, Sir, earnestly to sup port the resolution of my Noble Friend. Ido not support it upon the assumption that there is an overbearing moral oblieas lion which compels us to abstain from the consumption of the production of slaves. lam not one of those who con sider that the Right Hon. Gentleman opeosite can be charged with any dereliction of principle in bringing forward this mea sure. I, Sir, have myself voted for a reduction of the duties upon articles the produce of slaves. I have contended for a re duction on the duty on cotton, for the purpose of encouraging the "industry of this country.—(Loud cheers.) Only last year I supported the Right Hon. Gentleman in the attempt to get rid of an absurd system, by which coffee, the prod uce of certain slave States, was dmitted into this country at a lower duty,, in consequence of its having been trans-shipped at the Cape ; and it was from no opposition that I offered to that measure, that it was not proceeded with. Ido believe, Sir, that we must combine with the considerations of a moral na ture, prudential considerations of a powerful nature. Fur in stance, Sir, I am not at liberty to peril the manufacturing in dustry, and throw hundreds of thousands out of employ, from a consc.ontiou= scruple that the produce of slave-labour should not, under any circumstances, be admitted. Such large pru dential considerations, combined with the moral considerations belonging to the question, are fairly within the cognizance of legislasion. lam perfectly willing i to admit that those pru dential considerations mu s t en t er into this discussion; that we must look and inquire vhether its advantages or its disadvantages most preponderate. Those considerations I have maturely weighed, and my mind has been male up in favour of the resolution of my Noble Friend —my mind ha= been made up upon a consideration of the state of the West Indies, and the progress which that great and important ex periment, upon which we have lately entered, has made. Ido not ask you to continue the exclusion of other sugars for the purpose of supporting any individual interests. —( Hear, hear.) I admit that your liberality towards the West Indians has been so great, that if their mete personal interests were concerned you would have a right to ask them to make some sacrifice for the public advantage. Sir, I look at the moral and social condition of that part of the empire in which we have made the greatest and must arduous, and I am happy to say, so tar as it has gone, the most successful experi ment ever made in civilised-society—(Cheers)—and I cannot bring myself to take a step which might decide for ever that sugar cannot be produced by free labour in our West India co lonies. The Hon. Member for Liskeard said, "If sugar can not be grown in the old islands, let it be cultivated in Berbice and Demerara." Now I will ask the House is that the way in which to look at the interests of a great colony like Jamaica?— (Loud cheers.) With what fairness can we say to the white inhabitants of that country that it is necessary for the moral improvement of the slaves whom we have emancipated that you should be put to large expenses ? You must have a large new police establishment—you must provide a large Church Establishment, and you must provide the means of education. How can we hold that language to them, and at the same time time say that it is to us a matter of indiffer ence whether sugar can be produced in Jamaica or not ? Is this, Sir, to be the result of this great, this gloried , experi ment? Is this, Sir, to be the example by which we are to persuade other countries to remit their claims on slavery ? —that in the greatest colony which England possesses, the re sult of that experiment has been the total expulsion of the white inhabitants—the destruction of their capital, the posses sion of their country by the negroes, who are contented with the mere agricultural produce of the land, and that trade with England has totally ceased, and that is the happy condition in which emancipation has resulted.—(Loud cheers,) And yet, says the Hon. Member for Liskeard, there is not a writer of authority, or a thinker upon the subject, who has not supported this view, and one of the witnesses whom he cited, and whom he justly stated to be a man of high character, was Mr. Burnley. Now it is very odd that I am prepared with a refutation of all the arguments of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, from the mouth of Mr. Burnley himself. I have here a pamphlet, in which Mr. Burnley says, " Without the power of combining labour and increasing it, before 1840 all the capital hitherto combined by slavery must perish ;" and he further insists upon the necessity of extensive emigration, without which he feared that the great experiment might be disastrous ; and, if so, it would create an impression throughout the world against emancipation, which no subse quent efforts would be able to coumteract. That is -Mr. Burn ley. But, Sir, I have here another authority. A few days ago I had an interview with three gentlemen of high standing in the commercial world. and of great ability ; they waited upon me as a deputation from the Chamber of Commerce of Manchester, in order to discuss this question. Of course I told them that I must reserve any expression of my feeling until I was in my place in this House, but I listened to them with great attention. At the conclusion of the interview they asked me to read a pamphlet, and they informed me that if I would only do so with attention they had no doubt that even I would become a convert. Of course, hearing that from such high authority, I commenced my task with some anxiety ; but as it was written by a gentleman stated to me to be of high autho rity upon the question of slavery, and as it was pressed upon me by a gentleman of the very ~highest character, . and, as I found in our interview, a gentleman of the greatest intelligence and ability, I mean Mr. Ashworth, I did so. The pamphlet, I found, was the production of Mr. William Greg. At first I was inclined to believe that it was the production of the Hon. Member for Manchester; but I am informed that it is the work of his brother. At the end of the pamphlet he says, 1 , the planters had no right to demand that the nation should endure the payment of the present enormous prices for the pro duce of our colonies." He also is well a,quainted with our Brazilian trade, and is a strong advocate for its being main tained. Yet, this chosen champion of the Chamber of Corn merce at Manchester, a man of enlarged and- enlightened views, comes to this conclusion, that without a large emigration of labourers into our colonies the capital there employed in the sugar cultivation would be destroyed, for the white inhabitants would carry what of their capital remained to other parts, and his words are, that "in such a case emancipation will then have signally failed." "If ever the black population shall be come squatters on waste lands, or cultivators merely for subsistence, then slavery and the slave trade will have re ceived the last encouragement which can be given to it." The lion. Gentleman the . Deputy of the Chamber of Com merce foresaw that I should he convinced that their panegyric upon their selected champion was not just, he foresaw, the argu ment which has been made use of in this debate, he foresaw the argument that would-be used—" you consume tobacco and you consume coffee"—arid he says " it may be ureed against you, how can you conscientioissly permit the admission of slave grown sugar on the ground that-it would encourage slavery and the slave-trade, when you receive into your ports, without im pediment, slave-grown cotton." He foresaw that his answer to the objection is rather smart than sound—(Loud cheers). — and its inapplicability will be obvious in a few mo ments.. I will not give you the whole :of ' his rea soning. He sums it up in a short sentence—" In a word, the country is not called upon to exclude slave-grown cotton, because it never has been excluded, and because of its continued admission." (Here some observation was made in an under tone from the Liberal benches.) You may not be a member of theShamber of Commerce of Manchester ; but re collect the allifnber of Commerce are all adVocates for free trade, the men who are agitating against the Corn-laws—they asked me to read this pamphlet, and told me that they would abide by the decision to which I came upon reading it.— (Cheers from the Tory benches ) He says, " This country is not called upon to exclude cotton.—this country is called upon to exclude slave-grown sugar, because it has always been excluded, and because its admission now would be the greatest possible additional stimulus to slavery and the slave trade which England for thirty years has been lavishing all her efforts to abolish."—(Cheers.) And the conclusion of his pamphlet is this. He says, " I think we have now clearly made out all the propositions. The only method. of abolishing the slave trade is by destroying the demand for slaves. This object can only be attained, and may certainly be attained, by establishing, through the prosperity of our West Indian colonies, the supe rior cheapness of frre labour, and that the prosperity will be ensured and can only be ensured by extensive and systematic immigration, and by a temporary contieuanee of the present ilis criminat ing duties on sugar."—( Cheers from the Tory benches. ) Lest the lion. Gentleman did not hear me, I will repeat that " And by the temporary continuance of the present dis criminating antics on sugar."—(Loud•cheers. ) Now this is not She first time that I have been indebted for an argument to the ChaMber of Commerce of Manchester.—(Hear, hear.) I have read the pamphlet which the advocates of free trade placed in my hands. The result of the reading of that pam phlet is, great respect for the abilities of the author, and a confirmation of my previous impressions in favour of the con tinuance of the present discriminative duties.--( Cheers.) At the same time Icannot conceal f •orn myself the fact that there has been, in consequence of the abolition of slavery, a great di minution of the productions of sugar from the %Vest Indies, and if I could look to no other source of sul•ply, I believe the pressure would be so sceere, that you could not maintain this monopoly of the West Indies.—(Near, hear.) -If you could only look to an annual produce of 115,000 tons of auger, I think you could not maintain the protection. But I look to that country which gives us hope of future pros perity ; I look to India, as affording a check upon extrav2gant prices, and I have a competent hope that if you permit the ex periment to be fully made; the West Indies, the Mau r iti us , an d. the East Indies will afford you a supply which shall secure the importati in of sugar at a moderate price. The Chancellor of the Exchequer referred with some satisfaction,,only a satisfac tion, lam sure, as confirming an argument of his, to a sud den increase which had taken place in the price of sugar. Now, I think the Hon. Gentleman will find that, subsequent to the day on which he spoke, there has been, ft); some weeks past, a progressive reduction in the price of sugar, and, notwithstand ing the expectation that the douse will not. confirm the scheme •of the Hon. Gentleman for admitting slave sugar into the . British market, that expectation has not tended, I believe, to in crease the price of sugar. What may take place hereafter I of course cannot foresee, but I am told that since the COM mencement of this debate, there has been again a material fall in the price of sugar. The Hon. Gentleman who spoke last says we are going to inflict an enormous injury upon India by giving to the West Indies a monopoly of sugar. Ido not exactly understand the Hon. and Learned Gentleman. Why, if we 'give this encouragement to the home market, we are preventing East Indian sugar from competing with Bra zilian sugar in the market of Europe. The 'lon. Gentleman says, " For God's sake don't divert the capital of India, don't divert the labour of India by this production of sugar, which is (ter:aut to end in subsequent disappointment." Divert the capital of India! Why, hay. , you considered the relation in which we stand with India ? The. question simply is between the introduction of slave-grown • .sugar and the introduction of free. labour •sugar. With respect to India, the amount of remit tances •• on account of Government is 3,200,00:1!., besides private receipts to the amount of half a million. If I can encourage the produce, and find employment for labour, shall I be told that 1 am inflicting an irremediable injury upon India?-4 Hear, hear.) If I enable them to make these re.. • mittances by it, by. encouraging the production of sugar and protecting agricultural labour, shall I be told, with refarenee. to a country from, which I deman I an annual remittance , of 3,220,000 i., which it has no other means of making up except by agricultural produce, shall I be told that some clear, in f illible doctrines of free trade prevent me from giving encouragement to . that ?—( Loud cheers). 1 recollect some recent debates in this House upon the condition of India. I recollect the amount of the injury you had in flected upon. that country by the unavoidable, unintentional cheapness of our produce. The town of. Jappa was reduced from 1.501),(00 to 15,001 or 20,000, and the Malaya was gradually advancing upon it. I. recollect •in the debate re- Fpeeting the Hill Coot (33, the speech of the Hon. Member for Roxburgh, who had perFonil experience of the condition of the labouring classes, and: - I refresh the Honourable Gen tleman's memory for •the purpose of calming his alarm as to the extreme - danger of diverting.the resources , of India. The. Hon. - Gentleman said he mas appointed to inquire into the condition •of the - agricultural labour of Bengal. He 'found that they were paid about Is. 6d. per' week, or 2d. per day, that they " subsist on rice; and when rice fails they starve." He says " I haie seen the people by hundreds and thousands hurry towards the point at which relief was distributed by the Governor of Bengal. I have seen whole villages swept away by a dread ful inundation, and vast tracts of land utterly ruined." And then he gives a picture of horror which exceeds anything that the most romantic imagination ever pictured. I know of nothing more striking than that statement. ( Hear. ) He says I know this, that an official charged with a mission from Calcutta, was obliged to return back in consequence of the smell from the carcases of persons who had died from famine. Looking at our relations with that country' if we are responsible for the moral condition, for the happiness, and comfort of its inhabitants, shall I be told that there is some superior obligation which makes me encourage the slave pro duce of Cuba, in preference to the produce of a country from which I exact a large amount of produce, and where the labourers are in the condition I have stated? These are the grounds I thought before, and which I still think ought to induce me to give my vote for the resolution of my Noble Friend the Member for Liverpool.—( Hear, hear.) I never sought to inflame the minds of the people of this country on the subject of slavery. I never took an asd.ive part on the subject. I gare my support to my , worthy Friend, although I confessed at the time that I viewed the matter with apprehension, but I gave my support to it. I never lent myself to the cry of slavery, and I will not now lend myself to the cry of cheap sugar when the slavery cry begins to fail.—( Cheers. ) The Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Devonport has charged my Right Hon. Friend the Member for Cambridge and myself with inconsistency, with respect to .East. and West Indian sagir. lle stated that it. was discussed in the Cabinet of which Lord Ulcnelg was a member, whether or not East Indian sugar should not be placed on the same footing as West Indian sugar. He said it. was clear that that proposition was submitted to the Cabinet, and that the great principle involved in tie question was giving protection to slave sugar in pre ference to West Indian sugar, and the Right Hon. Gentleman after stating this asked with great warmth if we were prepared to ride into office upon such manifest inconsistency. I, Sir, do not recollect anything sff that sort. having taken plaee, nor does my Noble F'riend bird Glenelg. If he had recollected such a circumstance I should instantly have bowed to his decision ; but I think that my Lord Glenelg's impression is the same as mine, that the proposals were never submitted to the conside ration of the Cabinet. I believe they were communicated by lay Disable Friend to some Alembers of the Government, but they never underwent any formal consideration. In 828 and 18:29 we declined to adopt these resolutions. It is trut that my Noble Friend said he (lid not assent to the principle of th;Jm ; but the principle to which my friend referred was the reduction of the duty on sugar, for the purpose of increasing consumption, but the introduction of East India sugar and s'ave sugar never was the subject of discussion. It must be remembered, too, that since that time slavery has been abolished in the colonies of this country ; and it must be recollected also that there was at this time a bounty upon %%rut India sugar. The protection then was a complete one, and therefore sugar the production of slaves, could not enter into competiton. Sir, !was surprised, in the course of this debate, to observe the altered tone taken by gentlemen on the other side of the House with respect to slavery.—( Loud cheers.) I must sty that after all our Magnificent professions, I was sur prised at the course which On the other side of the House they are prepared to take. We are to tell foreign countries that we have at length discovered the only effectual way of putting an end to slavery and the slave trade. We are to tell them that the only way to do that is to encourage competition between sugar the produce of free labour, and that which is produced by slaves—( Great cheering)—and then we are to be told that this proposition of the Chancellor of the Exchequer is really and truly brought forward, not so much to encourage the consumption of sugar, but for the purpose of putting an end to the slave trade.—(Great cheering.) How was it proposed to extinguish slavery ? Why, by open ing the markets of England to sugar, the produce of slave labour. Such a proposition, I will venture to say, will be scouted in every part of the country.--( Hear, hear.) Again, I have heard in this debate, on the authority of a Cabinet Mi nister, that the delinquencies of other countries are no con cern of ours ; that it was quite indifferent to this country what course other countries might pursue. I think that such a state ment ig unworthy the source from which it comes, and I hope that the time is far distant, before we shall hear it broached again. The Hein. Gentleman, the Memberfor Wolverhampton said that the United States had as much right to refuse to trade with us on the ground that we would not take their cotton, as that we had a right to say that we would not receive into this country sugar the produce of slave labour. The Hon. Gentleman has also stated that the municipal regulations of other States were no concern of ours, and that we had no right whatever to hold any language which might be considered as dictating ths! course they should pursue. That may be all very well, but I don't think it is the language that her Majesty's Government •;would hold. Let the House look at the course which the Noble . .):.ord has pursued in making treaties with other countries. It I understand rightly the Noble Lord, in making the treaty witi.k Texas, he made it one of the provisions of that treaty that they should abandon the slave trade. I cannot therefore think that it is matter of indifference that we should see what course other countries will take with respect to slavery. I think, whatever Hon. Members may say of the influence these propositions have had in the country, that the country would view with disgust and alarm the aban donment of thelposition this country has hitherto maintained in its opposition to the introduction of foreign slave-grown sugar. Sir, the real question is not whether a certain amount oca pital is employed in sugar refining—in this trade or in that— the great question is, whether we do not incur the hazard of giving a fresh impetus to sugar the produce of slave-labour.— ( Hear, hear.) It appears to me that in abandoning that posi tion you are descending from the high position you have here tofore occupied. , Sir, you have made great sacrifices to carry out this experiment. You have paid twenty millions of money to emancipate your slaves in the 1i est India Colonies. 1 trust that that disinterested conduct will still be maintained by you, and that you will not disqualify yourselves from holding up the ex ample of England as an example for other nations.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord the other night, in comparing the po sition of England with that of Rome, observed that the circum stances of England were entirely different, and in a beautiful paraphrase of Dryden observed— .. Rome, it is thine alone with awful sway, To rule the world and make mankind obey, . Dispensing peace and war thine own majestic way," —( fleas', hear.) Sir, we are in different circumstances, for we have formidable competitors in the arts of war. We can no longer rule mankind by physical force, we can no longer compel obedience to our decrees by hysical force,' but I had hoped, till this debate, that there was an awful sway by which we might still rule mankind, and make the world obey by the influence of our example, and the disin terested efforts we bad made for the abolition of slavery and the slave trade.—(Loud:cheers.) Sir, I am sorry the Noble Friend did not continue his quotation a little further— " To tame the proud a s:he fettered slave to free, These are imperial ar.s, and worthy thee." —(Much cheering.) Sir, that is the majestic way in which I hope we cannot dispense peace or war but dispose other na tions to follow in our path, and by our all-glorious example to promote the interests of humanity.—(Cheers.) S;r, these are the grounds on which I shall vote for the resolution of my Noble Friend ; and in voting for that resolution I am taunted by the Noble Lord with pursuing a factious course. The Noble Lord commenced his speech by repelling with indignation the accusation preferred against the Government, and said he was confident that no man who had watched the progress of events could by possibility suspect them of bringing forward any public measure with a view to party motives. Now, Sir, I should have thought that the Noble Lord'apxperience might have freed us from the charge of having of to him much of „factions opposition. I think the . Noble Lord might have called to his mind some occasion on which, if a factious op position had been offered to him his position as a Minister would have been infinitely less safe.—(Loud cheering.) But the Noble Lord before he preferred that charge of faction against those who support this resolution might just have borne in mind the question of Privilege—(Cheers)—the question of the Union of the Canadas—(Loud cheers)—or the question of the Poor- laws.—(Loud cheering). And the Noble Lord might have had the justice to have given his opponents credit for not having been desirous against their conscientious convictions, of embarrassing his course on public questions, when embarrassment would have been the result. —( Hear.) But a factious course ? J, who have taken precisely the same course which I took last year.--(Cheers.) I, who when the Hon. Member for Wigan, proposed to me to intro duce sugar, the produce of slave labour recorded, by my vote, my opposition to that motion. I now stand here advocating the same principles, putting on record precisely the same opinions, when I say that I am not willing to admit slave grown sugar after the sacrifices the country has made. And yet I am charged by the Noble Lord with faction. Why, Sir, the only prima facie suspicion of faction attaching to my course is, that it was the course taken by the Noble, Lord last year.—(Much cheering.) Really I don't see any assign able ground for it. I guilty of faction for adhering to my opinions of last year ! Really I have had some experience of Parliamentary assurance—(A laugh)—and I can conceive that if 1 had embodied the Corn-laws, and the sugar duties, and the timber duties in one measure, and that I had said " Don't discuss these question separately, but try to get as many as you can to vote against sugar, by m i x i ng up with it timber and corn," then I might have ken charged with faction.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) But for the Noble Lord, under the present circumstances, to accuse me of faction is one of the most extraordinary charges that was ever made. When I referred to the Right Lion. Gentleman's proposition, did I use a word of taunt=did I not perfectly ac knowledge that if the interests of the- country required it, the Right lion. Gentleman was quite justified in taking a dif ferent course. That accusation I beg most distinctly to repel. —( Hear, hear.) One of the charges of factious motives was rounded on the allegation that. we had embodiod no great and irrevocable principles in our opposition. Sir, we have had ex perience enough in these principles —( Loud cheering:') The Noble. Lord might, perhaps, say .‘ Why don't you imitate our more illustrious example. Why do you not move a resolution that. no arrangement on this subject ever can be satisfactory." ( Vehement and long continued cheering.) Why, with the momorable example before us of the policy of the Noble Lord in reconsidering his resolutions—that the tear of the possibility of our being obliged, not to recant, for that they would not do, but to leave on- the journals of the House that standing opprobrium to all Government—(Loud cheering, in which the remainder of the sentence was lost). That may perhaps be a sufficient ex cuse to all the successors of the Noble Lord to view with ap prehension that example; but see what an absurdity you commit. the Noble Lord may say that we leave to ourselves a loophole to escape, and Who'could predict that we might not be guilty of the unparalelled iniquity, that next year we may be compelled to introduce propositions of a similar character? If we are, shall we be worse than the Noble Lord ?—(Cheers. ) Leaving a loophole ! Why what loophole have you I—( Cheers.) The charge you bring against me is faction. You, who op posed these resolutions last year, arc you so uncharitable as to think men can be actuated only by factious motives, who leave to themselves the opportunity at last of taking another course ?—( Cheers from the Ministe rill benches.) Now, do not mistake—do not believe that I move this resolution with forethought of being! able, 'next year, under similar eircuripaances, of deviating from the course I now take. 1 will be frank.—(Loral cheers and counter cheers.) Ido say that my opinion is that this experiment should be fairly made, and that you ought to encourage the introduction of free sugar and the attempt. to supply the market of the United Kingdom. And if, perhaps, if 1 take the course I state, it is not that I contemplate if I succeed to office,. following your example, and having opposed your prop position this year, coming down next year and proposing it.— ( Cheers.) The principle for which I contend is that East India sugar, ruin, and the produce of all our colonies, ought to be placed on the same footing. It is my confident hope and expectation that the produce of our own colonies will afford a sufficient supply of sugar ; and if this should prove true, since the necessary supply can be promei, 1, for one, am prepared to contend for the existing protection, so long as the West India colonies remain in a state analagous to the present.--(,-Icar, hear.) As I said before, I would not have said a word to Hon. Gentlemen with respect to their having taken an opposite course ; hut when I am charged with faction I have a right to refer to it. And what was the lan guage held on the motion of the Hon. Member for Wigan, which was resisted by her Majesty's Government ? We were told that the price of sugar was high to an unparalleled degree, that the stock was short and scanty to a degree never equalled, and that we ought to introduce a supply from the Bra zils. But you, the PresiJent of the Board of Trade, met the argument respecting the introduc- tion of cotton, tobacco, and sugar, the produce of slave labour, and -said that there was a broad distinction between sugar', and tobacco, and cotton. Then, when lion. Gentlemen on this side attempt to show that distinction, is i not too much EA 7 EN . ING E. ON. __. to say that we an guilty of faction because we use the se e , argument Ind dra' v the same distinction ?--(Cheers.) e _ said the pi (Nile of E nglanil required that the . greet should be fa irly tried . "If, then, at thisinoment,7yeu said," ; el the colonist s are sti uggling with such difficulties as nthave, gee described, rou are about to d o what ?to epehe floodgett of foreign supply, and inundat e th e B r i t i s h market sugar, e produce .of slave labour, the peopleswill be inOtj ii nant." Tee price of sugar i n J u l y last-wa5...565. 1011., , now 375. 10d. (C heers. ) You have since then given sail creased facility to the i n t ro d uct i on o f E ast l a di a sugar, a" „ you have equalized the duty on rum. You vow find it esP:i client' to try a different course. Be it so. ,Take that cotlf.,, I shot. Id have given you f u ll cre di t f or your motives, but ni l ; you tat e that course do not think it necessary tp charge Y. opponent,' with fact on bec ause th ey t a k e t h e c ourse a s , you' have abandoned.- —(Cheers. ) Sir, that is all the °bier:, tion I wish to ma'i,e with respect to the question of s ugar; I could have been contented to have here terminated lii servations, if 1 had not been constantly- remindedthat great commen tial and financial crisis—that the question of sum is intimately e:onnected with otter measures —that tie t ee vcrnment solic it investigation of their gene ra l play, an d that have no right to confine ourselses to the simple discus: v , ° e the,question. Sir, I say that the principles of free tr, ; car, in no way concerned with this question of sugar.-- i hear.) It stands in so peculiar, special, and unparallele a aition that it is apart from all the principles of free trade,_ all other questions, and on its own sacred ground I gi' c o. ) vote against the introduction of slave-grown s ugar.—( rin g I do not deny that there is in this country great manarat let e diseeess and lam sure that to whatever party we may " r we all hear ' with the utmost pain and grief th os e details °, ea diviaual suffering which are brought under our notice ; in , protest against them as legitimate argiimerits by which t° ~o n fluence the judgment of the House. No man can hear`" th e with greater pain and affliction than I do. I heartily wish the' some measure could be devised for their relief ; but, at the, co time, I am bound to say that at all times, and under O we cumatances,we have had similar details of this t 4 ra ra ee and that never can hope, in the complicated trivg of society in which we live—with the extensive enanufae t° ss o concerns in which we are engaged, to see th e time when _ do appeals may not be made, and when it may n o t b e atteme n i ve e influence our reason an 1 judgment by harrowing el , °lir , ,e• ings with these melancholy details. Alth oug h 1 admit thim, vere pressure of this manuf ac tu r ing di s t ress , I mu st at th" v d. time say that I do not vi e w with the same alarm and clesP e e th o envy as other Hon. G en tl emen th e commerc i a l pos ition "' ho e country. Ido not see the grounds for the alarm they an ts expressed. I have referred with some anxiety to the ac e d laid before the H ouse , o f commerce and. manufactures , t his belief is, that it is but a temporary pressure. I. fore'd tomato opinion on the d ocumen t s p r i n t e d b y t h e H ouse , an d o ing the amount of the export an d i m p or t t r ad e o f the coon 0 0. during the last three years-1838, 18.39, and 1840. T h t at cial value of our exports in 1838 wa s 92,000,0001. h i s i ', the 97,000,000/. ; and in 1840, 102,000,0001. • If you j u dge 'i s le official value I am aware that with respect- to quantity no ';, 5 1 factory reference can be drawn, so I turn to :the a o ° 00 1,; of declared value, which, in 1838, was 49,6 ,30 ' In 1839 52,700,000 e, and in 184051,000,0001., being a , It ee cation for the last year in the declared value of pre' ne of 1,700,0001. In the cotton manufacture thereswas °° n es crease. In the linen manufacture there ,was .130 incr , ,0 4 The decrease was in earthenware, .in hardware' in woollen and silk manufactures. On the declaredsrd, of 1839 and 1840 the defalcation in earthenware , : t oe ware, and in woollen and silk manufactures was 1, 0 I find that the United States take the chief part of our 'e lf o f factures. They take two-fifths of our handware, onr -lia t eee our silk-manufactures, and one-third of o u r w oollen IliaT the tures. When I consider the embarrassed situation er pit e United States, ou account of the s t a t e o f cre dit arid ea rr a so in that country—when I see the incr ease d d ema nd for " li t he articles of British produce, I entertain a hope that whe g o el temporary difficulties of the United States shall hav e e s fac' .away, there will be a corresponding i ncrease i n o ur 114°- „ t to tures. We must not be in a despondi ng moo d w ith rel e in - eiel the demand for our articles of ma nu f ac t ure in, .the (rots States.—( Hear, hear, hear.). The value of expo' s t a t es, Great Britain and Ireland to the . United 'OO -amounted in dollars in the year 1835 to 612,000,000, h i d e to 788,000,000, it then suddenly f e ll t o 44,000,000, i t t dr wards rose to 65,000,000, and th e nex t th ere wa g's gr ea ess, crease, as might naturally be exp ec t e d. Alth ou gh theretini such a defalcation, yet experienc e in ountrade with the nto States warrants a hope that the demand in -that coun tr y d ti e again revive. Now j us t l oo k t o t h e s t a t e o f our t ra de a° , re vigation; I cannot reconcile-th a t s t a t e w ith t h e as sertiol i o the specting failure in - our manufactures and prosperity. .„ t he year 1838 the tonnage on new built vessels registerert ; 1- 04° United Kingdom was 157,000, in the year 1839 296,00°' 333,000; in 18,38 the total .number 'of ships- entered '° rette was 4,000,000 ;in 1139, 4,432,000 ;in 1840, 4,657' 40 ' th e shipping outwards amounted, in 1838, t o 4,099,000 ; .n e, t f year 1839, 4,492,000 ; in 1840,, 4,781,000. Now, eertg'-er, there were that severe and uni v e rsa l di s t ress w hich F a so tioned, he could hardly reconcile that increase in trail of navigation, as determined, not by the numb er o f vessels , ', to tie° tonnage, with any statement t o th a t e ff ec t. Looki n r the condition of the United States—l oo ki n g t o the 'late r !, 0 terrtention in trade from our relations with China—l Per ge , the interruption of our commercial intercourse with ,',, • ?, - r ese looking at the position of France and other countries or ', a ir convulseel with the fears of war, whereby commercial trap tlO tions muss,' _be necessarily interrupted—if a deficieneY ' r ' ken declared value of British exports during the last year ha: t ite place, I do not infer from that circumstance I" a nc riti ought to give tip all hope in the manufacturing' Inn of this country. I am not prepared to admit that country be prospe.rous, there should not be a relaxation lons due restrictions ou -commerce. lam riot prepared to saY l li• et us remain stationa,ei, if we improve the commercial inn'''c u tion of our country ; but let us apply ourselves to th e fe ral derarion of the means. by which we may increase the P rg " r i - air' of the country.' The Boit. Member for Wolverharnptonoe ee l Villiers) insisted that I otre;ht to make a declaration sentiments' with respect totr9tt e he principles of free st• i s Hon. Genileman said that hie principles and the prin c es such of his friends as concur with him, are those that, ir; t to reference to any other consideration, your true Imlici r be to bny in the ch e ap es t mar k e t.. If these a re the print of the lion. Gentleman, and if they' are to be invariably without deference to circumstance's ortimes,- I can e" ,- Y. that in the appli c ati on o f th ese prinepleal do. not concu'oe - don't press themavith reference to a vouetry where , the re i n no reformed institutions, hut, as my Noble Friend , said" - ,„ t ic country of such complicated relations, of such extensive eo i l i t: de as this, with such various moral and rocial - ohl r ,o, gi " s 'o e st l4 pendent of mere commercial advantages, to say Ma: Yfar rigidly and uniformly apply those principles, my opinion, only involving this country in inextricablecet'lo Bullies. I apprehend her Majesty's Government, howest i r o b e Hen. Gentlemen may laud the course they are taking a e do e: obliged to-dissent from the principles of free trade, MS _'," incip ir o by the Hon. Gentleman. If the Hon. Gentleman's t OUI really be to buy in the cheapest market, what does I e of the proposition of the Government to impose a dull er /ea ' upon wheat ?—( Hear, hear.) Why not permit a P, i eert free aad unrestricted importation of wheat, sugare_ . ::d e ntas and everything else, if the principles of the Hon. t he be fully carried out ? The, Government claims for thernse, n re same privileges which I claim ',for myself, namely. - 1 tlo" thing to do with these abstract princip _ let without. kne w ' be circumstances under which, and the time when they there applied. Notwithstanding the Noble Lord.had said tha t co ,,io l was no man from whom Mr. Huskis son reeeired•M°" that 1, support than he did from me, I w ill not hesitate , to say'an d the time I did support the proposition of Mr. 11 usklsse e L a t to the result has confirmed my opinion. I think I , creelel al i r t ; Po ol the Noble Lord f or a c o n fi rma t ion of thi s , th a t one etether, t assigned by Mr. H us ki sson for j o inin g i n th e G oe s ielr the Duke of Wellington, was his having received eon-'l'a„ t ry port. from me. The only obstruction th rown in his'n t er!, by the Hon. Member for 'Coventry, and that was on till' girt 0 10 question to which you referred. Every a rgum ent that rre be collected w as , with the assi s tan ce o f th e s ilk inanufa g ne le of Cove n t r y, p u t f orwar d by th a t Hon. Gentleman, i n rf' to have Cove n t r y exem pt e d f r o m th e application of the Pet:ie hi pies of free trade. The only opposition in the motion W il es Mr. Huskisson wa s by a m o tion p ro p ose d b y a We'd her Gentleman who is now the columen decusque rerun o ne' Majesty's pr esen t G overnm e n t, an d h e was suPP - the in that opposition by a faithful adherent f e ., s ohr' same party, who was then the Member for .re i jit ego' and who has since been promoted to the office of j ail The colleague of the Noble Lord was not content withae g o inte, the principles of free trade, but he accused us, who'arl y- , s e°, them, of being cold and bloody metaphysicians.—(Ch eer ot& laughter.) We, according to the language of Burke,'asl l : n liir by the Right Hon. Gentlem an , were ac t ua t e d by a ll the e eel' nity of the' devil, and with a sovere i gn con t em pt,for't",,r, fare of maniind.—( Cheers and l aug ht er . ) S uc h Wasno t guage of the Noble Lord's colleague, and he said th;! oar merely against the motion respecting silk, but' to discred it the whole commercial principles, and cur perseverance ' ri fl ed' course which we had framed. That was the occasion °an on the Noble Lord r e f erre d w i t h so muc h exu l ta tion. g- s the which, he said, we g a v e a co ld an d l u k ewarm sup port ta t- bs to measures of Mr. fluskisson, who, th e Noble-Lord wee, Whig us believe, was borne on in his course by the tide e i support.—( Cheers and laughter from the Opposition.) „ e rt the Noble Lord claimed excluive - credit• for the !Orwell" those principles, and s a id th at if h e went out of o ffice , be. S pack up his principle s o f f ree trade, and carry there with ho —( Great laughter from the Tory bendier)- - '_. th, 3 „ e i s csi' would carry them away, fo r e see i ng t h at we, w h o had ", Of; been opposed to them, would t ry to ro b hi m o f his Pr o} hut that such was his magnanimo us generos i ty beforehaet, th e he would stand by his priiiiiphis, and not withhold fro!' !,`,,etor necessary supply of Liberal rinciphsa.—(Shouts of pr e ';',,tie from the Tories. ) How does the a oble Lord 'claim t i e r '' clod sive dominion over the principles of Mr. Husk;ss°°, ' — t e e prr 11 . ) cheers. ) - Where did we ever hear of that tinier tannosii loos, sent moment ?—( Vehement cheering from the —ra „„eiiiv e Was there ever a public man that pronounced A it' " i e ,; pro' -condemnation of the principles of free trader thaw ra tho rns Minister?—( Renewed Tory chee r s. ) , When Lord f ro' said that it wa s absolute insanity t o .deprive r )0 0 tection—(Cheers)—and who used • language that might been mine —(Cheers) --that in the present. complicated, pt tions of the country it \vasimpossible to apply the free trade Hear, hear)--yet .no man rose in thin , 114 sioi to protest against this dea!aration.—(Loud cheers:) the budget of last year.. on the principles of ,free f( a , c t was five per cent.' upon the C us t oms an d Excise ace.otalig,re) the principles of free 'trade ?—( To r y c h eers an d latia bi- ,00 Will Gentlemen say that five per cent. duty additiona l tobacco last year, which was already taxed 1,200 per een t S e er' according to the .principles of fr ee t ra d e ?—( R ene wed . e“ inn. ) In truth Governm en t d o not mean to app l y the .T - yO O ciples of free trade, and y o u s h ou ld no t t a lk o f th e m es ', er e were the exclusive profess or s o f th em f or a l ong ser ies of 3c t i,e) r I assented to these general principles of f ree t ra de \Ole n , were prevented in a very different mann er , w h en they n'er,-ei of berly and cautiously pre:iented, with the power and irr eg.- die effecting what we proposed—( 'Vehement cheering, fro ely° Tories)—when the public mind ,wa s p repare d f or then' , ° c o' opposition was weak and its success was prevented by r ire et er: which tious and deliberate manner in our n rea- a! were brought forward.—( Vehement c h eers f rom the'r ( i e )fr. We acted in this mariner when we were i n union flit'' Husk isson.— ( Hear, heir. ) I have no doubt you will :n( o ° s. quire from me what 1 propose relative to the Corn -13. ; 0 i 0 (Hear, hear ) I will nut sh, ink tram expressing nIY ° P eel on the subject. lam aware that lean consistently with InY oc eo give my opinion, and I will give it --(Cheers.) if b„ g `,, t tle reason to change my course, men opposite have done ; 1 maintain the opinions and u n do{ opinion on this subject.—( to the course which I have already avowed, perfe'c't I would do so, as Hon. ‘-'` ,ll .,eie terred by the menaces which appear to threaten declarer'°. t he, formidable combination whirls stands against the suftr rie last the present Corn - laws—notwiths , anding the deelarattolo4ti' they mint either be repealed, or a fixed dirty must be r edie rjheers ) Noe's - ithstandiraf 1 , 5 e t tuted for the sliding, scale —notwithstanding the' P, P , en ° tion and declaration, I do not hesitate to avow my a" 1 1.:,.0( 4 , to the opinions which I.expressed last year, and nirr e T s e s - r inge,' of a graduated scale to any fixed duty.—( Great e"`S ois tiei I said last year, and I repeat now what I' slid on the.,i s ee. of' the Hon. Member for Wolverhampton—l said-that Id nog with .anxiety the state of iranufactures—l said then think that a prosperous state of manufactnring industre' eta;`' country was most intimately connected. with a prosperr: r o ' of agriculture. I could then and I say now that't ato .,the' ' Petily of manufactures is .a greater support to-attriew% th rrs: any system of Cure-tan's could be, , . 1 p re", But I said tat that I decidedly prefer the principle s li d Scale r s , 'the daated and sliding scale to a fixed duty.—(Che ers " )-• it e r not bind myself-to a rigid adherence - to the exacesee.or,e. - isted, but I reserve to myself the fad. over of .consid details. All that I declared was, that I preferred the P r s „i n fotrf as compared with that of a fixed duty. I hold the same r 4.. T I M Vhd 1 14 ' 4!1" ..n h ~p t 1p 1c.., t~' ~a '°rye► ~ ": 1 / 4 14 . 4 , to, „ ,,t, , " I N 4 % or °lb,. • M nir • I, I, -1,7,', 1 114. , • . j ) , IsriVi , l 4 14114,,,T4' °{a,,~ w • 111 It ~ 4R7 h , 4% NI ty .141 1 , 14 nt Lg.: 4 I. ~a - ~a .Q~f