The Sun. — London, England, 1819-12-03 00:00:00

,7‘ • ~,. ) f•-;/ • •' . N. reett th e ter (ll° ..‘-, › i'TO'l'e ';-- ~1, - -Q, ~,, 74 gi L--; COt - ' 'l: t:\ '' ' ' . r ,,. • F- -- - , --i4 % 1 ...1.i, I i . .:1.:1,......._ . . .-iiii,- • ..-,, ~. \ .:‘, Ar- l 'er • •,, ----." . '' ,•; 9 ', " e-, ';.: ~ ' A. :._:., 4,..r,• . .. . :%1,:e7:-.,','", i ' ''' 's, '". l, t•s."'-` . 't , . '7 ,- ' • , I,:' .. ~(,_, -,...-::./,„, rto___‘..,,S . ,, . :••• • . ~.„,,,,„.•,, \-.c.... "-*7/,flihlA .., ,-4.c...„..-- - . ..........---‘,. 'k•- .1 ,, t • 0 ,~_.., ~~. r .~ ~ , cteil 11C ~.. .. .;,,Y}~..Jt. tt Y. 4, J, Or, i?"e, „ . . , - ,--,,,,,, • 5.,•,4„, r 1 ~ . , .1. 0 1 II 1 4 4 BE B. 8511. j ~..._ ARMY COTILADTS, Commissariat Department, Treasury Chambers, Dec. 1, .1349. NOTICE is hereby gken, that the Agent for 4 Commissariat Supplies is ready to receive Preaposals r s upplying such of his Majesty's Troops as way Ire en -4444Ped in the vicinity of Sandhurst, in the County of berks, with BREAD, MEAT, FORAGE, sTitAw,•com.s, esnd C411 10 0 1...E'1, for One Year, from the 25th December . next.. 8 tieh Proposals to he sent in on or before Wednesday, the 1 5t h peceMber inst.; (but none will he received iffer:Twelve 4 , 'Cl eeelt on that day); and if sent by Post, the Tosrage attest Pe Paid. l' coposals must be trade for the whole of the Articles, and !4 ' ll Proposal must hare the Letter wliicir is annexed to 11, !lend e r properly filled op by two l'elsons, , of known pro- f et Al l eng ag i ng t o b ecome b oote d w ith th e Party.tesileiing, " 4 1re amount stated in thc . .printed Particulars, for The Otte - Performance Aif the Contract ;and -no Prooosal will he 44ti ced•uniess .made on a printed Tender, and tfrte Prico ttPressed in words at length... •••• • Pa rtienlars - of the Contract may be had upon these Chambers; liotween the hours of Eleven and Fire.. NEXT THURSDAY 4 NOTHER. OPPORIUNITY OF GAINING 20,0001. PRIZES'. NEX'r DAY ~t URA‘‘ ]\G, NEXT -THURSDAY, presents the Fnspvt t of great advan ce to Adventurers. 4. 10 ,0001 will be gained in the Filo Five Minutes, by 'CI PRIZES nf 9.Q,0001. i t ached to the "f 0 FIRST PhIZES. Six PRIZES of 20.0001:are foil', Untlrawn ! And all way Ue drawn NIAT 'll-117It.S.DAY, Stb DE , C24 .ETS anti SHARES, 14-Arraolrd Unduawn, are selling by - - - BiZ,ll Si.,ck - N 0.4, CORNHILL, and 9, CIIARLINU-CROSS . :, and by his Agents its the C.shistry. 131 SH tins already Sold F ire Capitals in the Present -10 4 , "' ";"Y. his Agent as Liverpool sold part of one. of she is t , al. Prizes drawn the F,rsl Day, and Agent at Edin . r glk au:tl part of the tither Prize of 20,0001. the same Da y. THE EDIToIt OF sUN. 11 811 1 —The abstract or the " Seditious Meeting says not a word upon One very Important t lit "• Cons( t)I , !S and Special Constables should e 41 Itholised to carry arms, when sent out to liiS Perse a weaponed mon. Tifeir staves are the ; e tt , -.gots of their trtfice, not its pro'ection, nor its "fo tcentent. in a word, they should be allowed 11 0 what the Itattica;s bristly complained of at Coventry. A staff with the King's Cro wn. on it is a fine defence a ga i ns t 1, iu dgeons a n d b l i c hi nits , an d pikes, is it not ? b ; ".t lY. Sir they on ,, lit to he allo W.e thg tote of -11(1)1 s and ' cutia•ses, r' as t h e patrol , t• upon London toads. It is at least as ok.ces , at yio e i mittied Rafitcal a, Against a I Itlapili. 11 l~l r, that toe powers of Constables, as ,PreSel vet S of the King's pence, may h v to _ l 'ked in some one of the new Acts. I w ,„, it , tEll eh your next publication, and aunt theretote tt th • 4ll Y kl.f•rimit nis .and °Wei nations, (I) which -3 Y lie:caner white. I'EN.IX. TO THE Eiji FOP O THE SUN. DISSENTERS. 01 1 R --Multi as I .tin attached to the principle: fl Your fairer, and heartily as I Mifflin/ your spirit, tl "tille43,l„ per,evei epee, to , d 'candour in support of 143 ° yet I must confess that I was stor m., . melt es, • ts ' , l and shocked at tire illiberal attack upon -a e ~ I sSENTPPS ‘irkich appeared in your. Paper of 1 . : is tidy, under the signature of TrNAx. I have 44 Isis communicatiOli9 mere POLITICI ith , • satisrdettott, but, when he touches upon :t.totoN, there is a lightness, flippancy, and 't etence, that rather indicate the insul , hig rn li , ness of the scoffer, than the meekness of the t ;;" Christian, o r even t he c o urte s y o f t h e G ent l e • 0,."• Sir, am a Dissenter, but though I may fa r with the Alembers of the Established Church b % . 0 14 'llsorne t en e ts w hi c h t h e y h o ld as essent i a l, I : t ad never treat their faith with disrespect, and 44 rtai„i y not w i t h l e vity. Tire Dissenters, Sir, b udll l4 ' comprise some of the most learned, ight and amiable men in the United King mo il 1 4 . 1 ''1 will not intitaie TENAX, by fliferflidid kl )o tations against the Alembeis of the ESTA -111:streb CHURCH, butt I sincerely wish that is Y equalled the Dissenters in a strict attentii , n t o . t h vligio lt s ditties. Though TttNAX IS so hostile yet it may be thought that he has at Ctt fo rmer per i o d m i xe d amoue them, and that 1 "s caught some,hing 01 the coarseness, if It" ( JS'olgarity, of their lAngitage and rs. The ,:.letiters, Sir, al e It lend" to the Constitution ; they i e love God they honour the King. T h e Y ere sensible of the dangers that surround us. li e t Y ate far limn wishiug to witness the destruc- Ak il OM' present ESTABLISHMENT IN C HU ItCH t) STATE, because shev know that Dissenters of tit oominations must be overwhelmed in the latlltral ru i n, They are deeply sensible of the % t ut lL , of that t a l e n t , i on w hi c h t h ey d er i ve f rom thou g h they naturally wish that p o r e more extend e d. I a d m i re your Leai in 04fosition to P O PERY, whi c h I h o p e w ill never b e p o wered to obtain a participation in political 441 , e t h ; and I hope t o see a p erseverance i n t h e sp ur steal among your many intelligent_ . Corre ots. B u t d o not l e t any of them attack the tsi blit Dissenters, for Dissenters act acc or d- Itf t .() , I be dictates of conscience, and are staunch toleration, when it does not endanger vit al Interests of the Constitution. Dec. 2. A DISSENTER. 3 mkt . Ins, w ill e future It. to thcl :numb: st ; an ortlat"' )iocese. by tl' e , gli, all" ]ich the ,sion (0 roc'lied ropagi" s pot for Y grafi" )1110t 1011 ktio oql e h WI dditiO n amltthld coNcer" 310 113 riic`ll A #AI serc.- ROCR I. in be' s[ l tn tC, 1., it i* i i ;IIS. , -- !iegi( )ee" st rid i ion parti° ; : ,1 !pro' vva-111S, T~~✓pli~ be in'• Or t Dv( b° I~~i' e rlrig ,is rclre Li ver' /1 five 1411 . 1 , h !fare of ;(xitz be cr, a"4 liberA l f r prog' r 034 0 r id ch rose, I) 111° vi ao J or Licof R e ire 11- 11 err:, lacc o• brac ( ' Idi; jit . 10 naiad * 'N‘ iUttal a, Wl' FRIDAY. DECEMBER a 1819. PA R 1 A .11 EN T. HOUSE OF LORDS, THußst)Av, Dec. 2 Mr. MAsoti, from the Elst India 1-I ,, use, ttre scored enpy of the Itesolutiobs j.iissed by the Court of Dit'ctors Since the last, on the subject Grants, Atmoi , ie3 ).Iml Pensions. Ire . Earl . ot CArtsAtirnts res,nted soins Peti tions 11(IIII . differelit parts of the County of Sonier i'et.; respeeti"ng the tiy...etn of licensing, - public bruises, and other . siihiects, 'which, alter ti WIMIS frOth were ortlered to lie on a bl e. The Martinis of LANspowN moved for an Ac- Count 04 the diff-rt,nt Informations and Indict to,nts in 'case!, 14 ,anot Of the procectfings thereon, 'wl; . kh had'Otentred within the two last years. This gyve rise to' fl '810)0 - c4uversation on the and !he liarls of: LivEttiotit. and iitossLwirtv participated, in •con• seq , ,ence.t . iirst-mt•utioned liceCs proposing to ktilsrii(l ihe•mnqu'ni-b!:, enkflziug i's operation rerrospc.‘4 , ively in the yritr 1813, inclusive. ret.ult that the amendment was not persisted in, and ass order made pursuant to the original . motion,respecring which, The Earl o Rf)SSLYN suggested the propriety i•s being extended to Scotland. The order 01 the D.,y npon which their Lord- Ship were shwhioned being reitd, which %vas lot the secohil reading of I he iotse of C..mmorts, whet► tk 1t great man, whose talents and whose political piodnetions had ren- Acted him immortal (Mr. 13 , itice) produced a dag g,r, a nd which was kept as mernori3l of that great Character's couduct—a weapon which was to he used not for sett-defence, bot for purposes destructive to the State; 90 was it with 'the weapons contemplated by the Bill 'before their . Lordships. The principle to wh ich he re ferred respecting the constitutional right to arms, was iocontroVrl c ibre. With respect to nieetings for the purpose, by means of physical force, of effecting an alteration in the LaVt 3 or Constitution of th,tse realties, it was so far a yeasonable overt-act. 'Of this, et - mstitu• tiooftliy speaking, he thought vete could, be no it With respect to the provisions of the Bik.l, be-could have no - wish to render theni moh rigorous than the necessity of the case require 4, but he trusted that whatever alterations may be proposed i7') the Committee, their efficacy mould itelirrser vett., Lord itypesrixis made some observations -in support of what had fallen from the Noble Lord on the tifoohack. Lord HOLLAND was of ophlion, that the truest dtcidarri on such cases was that of a Court of Jus tice, and in that no verdicts were obtained against the accused. The policy of the present system of measures he deprecated, and though' the present situation of the country wits chiefly attributable to the misconduct of 'Ministers. It was clear, that . where there was much discootent among the people, those were either very bad, .or they bad a bad administration of GoVern ment. Toe Noble Viscount seemed to think the Bills would best be Considered together, and as a part of the system of policy orcessaty to be adopted; but in no view which be could take ot the subject Could be afford an uncpialificd assent to these Bills, nor could he yet think their prin ciple could .be safely sanctioned without farther evidence of their necessity. With respect to the Training Bill, there was an obvious inconsistency. The punishment of transportation was provided for the person who chilled, and yet for the per son who was taught, who might be the noire guilty, there was but three years' imprisonment. Whit respect t what fell from a Noble Lord op posite, en the point of anonymous information, the fact may he worthy of attention, that there were several Orange Lodges in that part of the country, and whose existence and practices were thought to excite great discowent. With respect to the second 11:11, that for the seizure of arms, he deemed it :objectionable in many points ot view it was doubtless joeonsiscent . 11;j! I; the prin ciple I,titi down by the Bill of Rights, from which a proved necessity alone could iaduce hint to de part. He was opposed to the inaxini that there should be one law for the rich and another for he poor, as was the effect of some of the argu ments, brit if the necessity for disarming were proved, it should he done with all possible ten derness. In the Committee the measure may be less objectionable. He regretted the absence of a Noble Friend ttotn indisposition, who thought with : him, that the whole of this system policy • teas fomided in gross error. One of conciliation, or a retracing of steps, would be more likely to be effectual than calling upon Parliament to put down, in this way, the existing rti“..ontents. The LoRD CHANCELL , III again goilted the wool sack. He explaioed his differethe herrn the Nohle Lord, in.point of his construction of the true effect of the BM of Rie e ttts. The subject was allowed arms for his owoi . defenCe and individual protection, but not for purposes hostile to the safety of the State or destruction of the'Contitution ; and on • !his principle he had acted—a line of condort he was prepired to defend, and willing to abide by. The Marquis of BUCKINCHAsi contended there was an important ditleteuce in the proposed measure of disarming a part of the peo ple, which was to he considered wi:h a re , Terence to the object. IViten these persons were obviously armed for the propose of overthrowing the Constitution, there could be no infringement of the Bills in so doing ; and it became, from that moment, the•doty of Parliament to disatm them. On that principle the whole discussion of those quest ions proceeded. The facts alleged were of public notoriety, and formed ample grounds for their proceeding, without the onus of proving be ing imposed loom Parliament. They had to ap ply a remedy to an existing evil, an d in this view he was against any impolitic compromising of the Constitution. As to the objects of those iv ho con tvroled for Annual Parliaments and Universal Suf frage, their obj,•cts with respect to the Constitu tioo were to.) obvious to be mistaken or deuied. Lord HOLLAND shortly explained. The Puke of Sussitx tliought it appeared to be imagioed that those who questioned the conduct of Ministers on the present occasion were inclin ed to Silppol t the system of what Were called Radical Reformers. Nothing coul,f liciwever he turther from the truth. Adverting to the points more immediately before the litinse, his 11 , ,yal Highne s s s a id, he was inclined in a great me3sure to acquiesce in the Bills proposed ; but he again deprecated the idea that those 'who . 111ily rat her think otherwise were inimical to tht int, rests of the State. For the character and . conduct of the Noble Lord on the Wools;ick he had the highest opinion ; and we understood tite illustrious• Duke to say, that Were his Lordship now in the situa tion of Attorney-General, he telt iarisked that many of the difficulties which the country nosy suffered would not exist. The situation' of thines at present was one .that called for inquiry, which would best point out the proper remedi,s to be applied; atid with respect to the Bills incptestion, the objectionable parts could he best discussed and obviated inn Committee. The Lail of DARNLEY spoke at some lengtt,, [PRICE SEVENPENCP, `chiefly in disapprobation of the line of policy adopted by Ministers. The Earl of DattLitiGtort (in a first speech) re- Trested their Lordships'. i n d u l gence , w hil e h e troubled them with a few observations, which had an important ';refeteoce . to, the discussion of that evening. He was one who possessed some stake in the country. had long been a Member of their Lordsirips' House,.autf, since the year 1792, held an important appointment tinder the Crown (Lord Lieutenant of the County of Dorham). He had much (visor:unity of knowing those parts of the country, and be had taken some pains to acquire correct -informatiou as to the real state of things in throe ;quarters. . la many parts, donbtlet,t, perfect quiet prevailed ; but it appeared to be more at obemattire of soileir silence than -of real quietness. lie adverted to a recent extensive weeti : ttg in the neighboorbood, of .Netccastle ; but it was one which took place under. onfortu.. nate cis ciimstancr.s, arising_ou ; t of the differences •between thecollier r s in That quarter and the keel.. men.; it was alSo of such m nature, that thOogh they -sep4iAted quietly, it bad Atracted the notice of all who wished well to the established Govern- Went. Property was seriously menaced, in some instances attacked, and apprebeicsions were enter tained of a rising'takiog place. This may occur within it few days ; and it was certainly true, that while they ( he Lords) were deliberating there, th e re tea, s t o doubt hut many deliberations were taking place, particularly in the northern parts of the county of Durham, and in .'another quarter mentioned by the Noble Earl, which could not be distinctly .heard below Ile Bit.. Quan tities of offensive weapons mete collected, and here was no doubt but those who collected them either aimed at the destruction of the Con stit Iv ion of the country, or endeavoured in excite such tumults as would endanger all pro perty in the country.—(dear, hear')—On soma points cminecied with those questions he nit;st disagree with many of his NisbleTriends. Men tion was made that night of the effect of anony. mous information; but he for one had recently r-eceived iotormation, and from a quarter which he would not upon any account disclose, In such cases as that before them, Noble Lords would individualiy judge for themselves. Ile had the grewest deference for the opinions of bis Fr ien as, whom he generally sipported ; but ott this occasiini he would be governed by his own. With respect to the Bills in question, on some parts he may have some hesitation—those may require alteration, - so as to improve the general tetr, , r, But he was free to say such measures were abs:Autely necessary ; and he repeated that he bn.t received itiformarinn, which left hint in no doubt, and held impressed upon his blind the necessity of Ministers bringing forward sorre measures that may be called strong. He was desirous in such ar, emergency of seeing an union of talent in both Houses, so that the country could have the ad vantage of their opinions in defence of the coun try but a union of this kind was rather to be wished than hoped for. As to \ the camtes which led to the present dangerous crisis, he thought they formed a distinct question - . To talk upon question of Ittform as connected with, or con!cmplated by, such persons, would be a merit waste of words, though some degree or spccies of itt.form would perhaps be advantageous or ne cessary.—(Hear, hear !) The Eat! of STRATHMORS stated, that he also was possessed of same important information from the part of the comoy alluded to by :he Noble Earl who had just spoken. His Lordship principally adverted to the nature and-extent of many meetings which had recently taken place. Of these some were attended with regular bands of music, and of others, women bore a nume rous proportion. Upon the whole - , he !bought there was little doubt of these persons being ripe for some dangerous convolsion. Malty who, attended were either smiths, or habited as such, and were known to have pistols coueeal -ed under their leather aprons. He had that cl.ty received a letter from a most respectable Clergyman, which spoke of the most toft wits de predations having taken place in that quarter. The Meetings were frequent and nunteromi, anti there could he no doubt that their object erns to excite a more extensive system of sed.tion, if not rebellion. The brother of a Noble Earl then ab sent (we believe Earl Grey), was described to have_ had his residence iii the county attacked, and to seek, protection for his family in one of the nearest, large towns. He trusted . the Bills would he carried through with the ut- most expedition. The Meetings of the colliers vere numerous timl frequent, but they were di vided into parties.and appeared at different places ; t h ey %vele p.wever attended a ith the cap of li berty, the. death's head and cross hones, and othar inflAmmatoty symbols. The michinations which cansed ;hese had made too notch %vay ; he still hoped those. people would see their error in the end, and no longer continue such dangerous and destructive practices. He .vas lately assor eft (ha( no less than fourteen thousand men, chicflp armed, were in readiness for insurrection its the County between the Tyne and she Wear ; iiideed, by every thing he cotici4 learn, they were in a state very little short of rebellion, and he enter" rained strong apprehensions, that without sonic strong precautionary measures, some general in sortection would take place. Some of the dis tricts in that quarter were, he was happy to say, vi e r w id loyal, and cherished very little of radi calism or disaffection. His Lordship instanced the lVestern parts of Dtritam, and the Northern parts of the county of York.—lie thanked tneir Lordships , for the attention they had favoured Ain ►vitlt ; but he thought it right to ethl the 'nfdrination cvlicti be Lad received from nearly r ~- ~ .. TRAINING, AND SEIZURE OF ARMS BILL, Viscount SIDMOUTH rose and observed,.that on the present occasion, and after what he had stated on a former evening on the bll hject, he did not feel it necessary to occupy their Lord.t,ips' time, by entering into any detailed statement of the nature and provisions of those Bills. There were, he ob served, to be found in the Act passed in the 52d year of his Majesty, when some parts of the Noftli were in a state of agitation, provisions nearly si milar to that of the measure now proposed, and in some respects that Act even went farther; this particularly riletred tip the Bill 'authorizing rite seizure of arms. He begged leave to state, that whilst he considertd the information conveyed by the papers already before Parliament as forming ample grounds for these measures, he was induced still more earnes'ly to press their speedy coml. aeratton, in consequence of most important in formation which hail been received within the last three days, and of which he would then say, that the process of training was cat ried On to mo s t al arming and increased extent in various quarters, as well as of the promotion of arms, and such as actually convinced him that the speedy adoltiou of these measures was more than ever indispensable to politic safety and private security. 11,-, should therefore now move that the Bills be read the second time. Lord EasKstez rose, and in a low tone of voice Made sow ottservitions respecting the proposed measures„ in which he seemed to question the necessity of their proceeding to the extent, deem ing tbat great measure the existing trise Rid y be found adetpiate for the purpose; iiur did he conceive that necessity existed for so speedily passing them. He did not think that the Papers hetore the. House laid a sufficient ground for the adoption of such nicas t ores, and commented upon vet Ain provisions in die Bill which he thougot of sit objectionable Hahne. Adverthig more parti cularly to the Bill ,tor authorizing the seizure of arms, he felt that some or its provisions required grave and serious consideration, as going to af fect an important constitutional r:eht of t he sub ject, and which he trusted %vivid receive some Modifications i n a ( W , ore stage. Lottl LILFORD thought, the greatest part of what fell front the Noble anti Learned Lowd :watt matter more proper (or discussion in the Coirrmittce, than on the present stage of the Bill. lie contended that the evidence before their Lordships showed the necessity of even stronger measures than those proposed; and his Lord ship adverted to some information which had come within his own knowledge, which lie thought of no small iniportance. Much had been said against the practice of laying anonynions formation, but of the necessity sometimes of such tr upple of procedure he felt convinced. He was particularly aware of this, with respect to a certain case in the depositions laid before one of the Manchester Magistrates, and where he had s u ch a knowledge of the party as induced him to place implicit confidence in the statement ; nay, lie was confident, that if any Noble Lord oppo site was equally aware of the circumstances, lie would have come to the same conclusion. Of the necessity of the proposed mea3ures, he had nu doubt, and whatever alteratioos might he made in a future stage, he trusted care would be taken to render them t flect•v4l. 1 Lord ErtsittNe spoke in explanation. Referring principally to what had taken place respecting the indictments for High Treason in 1794, on that occasion a vast body of information was laid beture Pal lirtment , which, in its opinion, nn donbr justified the steps which were then taken, but which the rtsolt. :if the judicial investigations proved rot to h ave beet well founded. t The LORD CHANCELLOR olp.erved, that it w a s on his own views of the circumstances of the cases which had come before hint, he had deem ed it his duty to.prefer these indictments. With respect to the present measures, .he differed ma• t erially from his Noble and Learned Friend, who, however, had argued much more against the enactments than the principle, concerning them. lie was fully aware o f t h e constitution al right ut the subject . to have arms for his own defence, but not for any purpose dangerous to the public peace. He well retnembered what bad plend in the: bite' sitted .d if) reek , of • 4i* 04 b o ra s Stt ; iut• odg )tair l 0 12 /' ea C