The Sun. — London, England, 1828-06-10 00:00:00

sense has been at different times attached to it. I say, my Lords, a different meaning has been assigned to the word . Establishment now and formerly. ; It is yelooekable what differences of opinion have subsisted on this etitYect—and I shall quote the opinion of wilt; for the ptirpeee of sheav hOw opinions clash in relation to it, and, liew modern practice has 'superseded ancient prejudice.. Peao Swift says—" If once we repeal the Saerameutal Telt, and re sort to toleration, and suspend the execution the penal laws, Ido not see how we cen - he "said to haVe'an Esta blished Church." That, My Lomas, was ""sift e view of th e subject I need not say h o W fa r it h ag been departed from. A recent Vote of your Lordships is' sufficient evi dence or the fact. I have no Hesitation in dun opinion that the best establishment is thtit Which leaves ' 3 , - field open to the employment and ativineestient.of personi who may h a ve the Misfortune to diffe - i sentiment with • ‘i i ts followers. That, 'My Lords, is the state of thingewhich - I wish to reach. There are three 'nolo of dealing with . "Ireland. The first is, that which; with great' frankness, and with a manliness which I lillotir,Tllll , 4Tbeensitggested by the leading party, of Orairgenten, . that. country in their examination befere a Ceinmitteo e Vf Your Lord; • ships' Rousse . They Sad' openly," (in Leland), cant stay where we are, but we thii& the legislature ought to 'go Now, my Lord,, this is open awl :;andisl, and if it lie the opinion of tie; Legislative, as well lei- of the party of whom I have niade mention e let it he also openly and candidly avowed. But let the difticiii-, ties that joust attend the adoptiou of this course be alsa taken into account.* I Say,' let the danger of adoption course towards six or seven tailiknis, failed, when 'applied hie million and'ii'hall, 1,, well.‘veigli ed and considered. Others say, "let us stay as we are," bat the misfortune is, at-e cannot comply ,wit's the advice ; for while the laws remain in their previuns condition, other things are full of change and . alterstion.' The laws coo-- Cone, and may fur ;I while continue to subsist, but other institutions and establiihmenta • have heel, called into exis tence, and raised lip a power destructive of the be-t in ' ttreets of the, country. Then, my Lords, what step reuesioe for us to take hut •to adopt a i-ourse of teniporate, careful, and moderate conciliatiun ? Iu diet system, and, that system , alone, du I see hulks of placing Oil a solid and Permanent foundation the and reli e ioua peace and trariquillity of the iountry. By such judicious and temperate measures only, can We eradicate the tholgese With which ws ale threatetied by the new principles and institutions flier hare sp: ong up aiming tio :My Lords, 1 remember that thO. mast sublime and lieautifill of Christiaii 'Nets; in•deseriliiiio the (sleet Of au merit the most super natos:al in'the history of mere aiol the meet ittp . ' orient in its resides to his future happiness, Lai alitidol to its extra eirtlinaty cOrrequenees in it Streit' 'net entirely inapplicable :se the present S t ilijeet. The author to whom I allude. de -scribing tie; effiStos el the pieeeed- to -how how t disarmed and extineuislied all coil prinsipho and rshelli oust powers .: • - • " The oracle , :ir; dumb, • No vice hum ‘' Runs daunt, toe ...ilea roof-7 And " hut peaceful was the night,' Wherein-trie Prince'of light '• ff)., reign ofpeoce upon tire earth beg.in : Mb winds with yonder whi,it, • onnsiatilly the neater.; ki , t, .. , Wts'ii . poring new joys to the milifocerat. se Wh o no Leith quite forgot t .4 While of calm , it on the clirm?il wave." My Lerds:, I am well aware your Lurdshipm are pee ' wised of no supernateral intim-tier to effect objects such ;se *how ; 'but in the whole civil history of mankind, an obo sect ,Ally less beneficial than this will b e Seemtielislied ',cuing et rest the present question. If you wish to ratio essiiisli evil passions in an 'unhappy country-if you wish. it uo forger tole assa . 4:l by every.artifice of the deqning, s o be disteelsed „by every metion_of the nil bitleut—if you a st e s itas to put an end to national discontent—and turn the tide ,of fortune. on that island--von will coneede what ie mow r eqoired. My Lords, #is impossible t o go on as we , lleve door past tines--it is. equally impossible to con tisasse is we ere at preeerit. Th,:re?sfSe,etseret in civilized Government, gip' Inellll4 sf avlssela yofl Rio excite at one time, and eseutitislree ee at another. Tina Catholic - l eo- I solation of, freissod , has ,ponser now to its batuit, and 'it whi continue to haese s es geocviU and increasing pewee. .1 say,. fey Lords, population ;if seven milltious will pooeeee.power.in the State an epite of Ho, An foamed popuisititm (anti the Catholics oeow daily more in fumed) will haVe .Tower —a wealthy popatOtiou (stud the Catholics relatively ispeakior grow more weeithy) will have power---a reading population.. will ,have powexesea writing seopulatioa will letwe power. But, toy Lords, the vow s etswthas they will have, aatl.whiels they must have whether they will or nut, may he aaessesettled, undefined, and unregotated power—a power for evil ;ea well as gOOll , power iu its operation like those. which seess burled f r om ee teine heights, disdaiefid alike of limits and contemil, aneer s a Ot Zo their etfeets, irregular is their course, earrese w . ti „„ nor a pi-melee.. of, fertility, but a cause of stil devastation, till at )sngth, having escapid from their rocky and precipitous tleseeto:s they settle down tin* more peace ful channel, into a steady, uniform, and fertilirlog foment. My Lords, the power in poestassion, or about to be is piss session of Catholic Ireland, restonblee• but too Much flip former part of the description'; anti it is for the purpose of assimilating it to the latter, that I call upon, you to concur in the present measure. My Lords, let us not be blind to the insinuations that have been thrown out, that there is no difference between a people without an aristocracy, aod an aristocracy without a people. I call upon you, my " Lords, iu the name, not of myself,' but of the Commons of Great Britaio, arid in the name, not so.ukacb ofireland, as of this nation, tii agree to the resolution, which it now has become my duty to conclude by proposing for your Lord ships' adoption. My Lode, the resolution which I have to . propose to your Lordships is, "That it is due opinion of this mouse, that it is expe dient to take into consideration the lowa effecting•his Ma jesty's Roman Catholic subjects, witli a view ,to a final and conciliatory adjustment, for the peace and strenset!a of the United Kingdom, the atabiiitysof the Established Choeeti, and the concord and sstisfactioo of all classes of his Ma- jesty's subjects." The Noble Marquis wits greeted by cheers at the dose of his address, and there were loud cello fur the ArthhishOp of Canterbury. • The Archbishop of CANTERBViIY then rose, and its a tone of yoke seldom audible at the• position which we occupied, among the crowd below the bar, was understood to say, that he should-never forget what was due to the si-e tuation which he had the honour td hold in the church, end hoped by his conduct to prove himself worthy of the high office with which he was invested. • The Noble Marquis had brought forward u resolution; the object of which was• that their Lortlehips should give a pledge to attempt to discover such means as might be Med iated to bring about conciliation with the Roman CatholiCs, ' in order to effect a final adjustment, calculated to increase the peace end strength of the United Kingdom, to promote the stabilityof the Protestant Church, and the concord and ; satisfaction of all classes of the _community, 'ibis was the effect of the resolution proposed by the Noble Mar quis; and if it were -so easy to accomplish what his pro posed, ha s (the Archbishop) would gladly concur in it. lie repeated, if the effect of the resolution were likely to he what its supporters imagined, no man in their Lord ships' House would be more ready to eoinply with it titan hi mse lf. But he must be allowed -to hesitate if he oaw no prospect of the reeolution's effecting this end. S 4 o far from that being the case, he feared every discuseloo rd the question hail givers rise to .fiesli impatience and disappointment. The question had bee euspended be tween the two (louses of parliament for matey' ;sears, and the balance hail been so nicely poised, that it was ititaieo!t to sej to which side it inclined. Tbia state of uncertainty woi not calculated to produce quiet nor tranquillity. • Ile admitted tt e tt the question was one of vait importerwe to the best intereats of the eml)iie• lay the nnhappy state of Ireland; the tteisdo and firmness ot Perliament.were m brought to a severe-Lest, Parliament would ra Nvithhidd from the Roman Catliolics that to which they appoi'ed properly entitled, at the liara time that it would not c 4 2- cede to them, under the pressure s of fear, what was believed inconsistent with the Constitutiotf. Every Government possessed the right of self-defence—tfiss kzht to exclude front office, legislativ e and executive, those ti'brZere dan gerous to it. If that were exercised rashly or utti - ees" Wily, it vote inaproyer ; but if for the porpose of securing the State, it was juatitiable. In his view or the subject,' it was upon this point thitt the queetion depended. in the Retinmation that took place in the reign of Queen Eliza' , 'Placed on the Bennan Catholics Beth, no reetri cticins were until the necessity of the case called for them. ita the time of Charles the Second-a declaration was provided tisiSi,ch affected the Runian Catholics', and in that smite things • ermined till the reign Of William the Third. I n to' th e sob ject of the Penal *Laws against the Roman Catholics, then .enacted; and eubsequently in the reign of Mote, he should snot then enter ; mirficeit to say they were retrieved ire= our statute books its the titrae of George the Toi e e. are a their" eeueal gave him the ireatest satisfaction. Th e man Catholics were now free trims these hard and disgrace fal schackies, and at full liberty 'to entertain their- own views of religion , doctrine, and perform their religioue ex ercises without mule Station. But further tuna this he ;vas sot, at Present; prepared to go—because he thought it was not palisade to go farther, with safety to our established Cowititution in Church and State. The Archbishop of TIJAM-My Lords, feeling . .as I do upon the question before your Lordship, I cannot allow myself to give a silent vote upon it. Were this question to he debated selely on the ground of expediency, I shoiild not for one moment have obtruded myself upon the atten tion of your Lordships, but would have left the discussion in the hands of those who are more competent to disOnss it. But impressed as I am with the difference between looking upon it as a question of expediency and a question of ridt, and lee!king to our own finite comprehensions, I feel that that right may tint be in accordance with, the will of God. I have therefore to entreat the indulgence of your Lordship, while I state, es inietly as posssible, the grounds of - ro e - ohjectiou to the Noble. Marquis's Motion. Expediency may be far removed from that which is right—bet that which is right must illti roately prove - to be eit ikal leo t. And ',Jure your Lordships; venture to give to these Roman Catholics a power so op posed to religion, and to the Coestieutien, you ought, in niy humble judgment, to take fully into your coneideiation what' the effect of such a tueesure.will be, and whether you look upon it aoa mewinie of expediency or one of right. It is not my intei.tiou to,take tip the time of your Lord ehipe in enteriug into, a history of , the Roman Catholic Creed, which, however denied, and however declared.to.he obsolete., is still then, text—le te be lo witi on the . face o f th e . bells of their Popes. and 1:3 ready to he called into action whenever it may be found ilevesty to Popish aggrandise tnent. Our ancestors eveye wi, , eiy 9ti their guard against ell Popish t inetsvetions, and have taken cue to place on our statute hoeks, those slalom) , laws by which those innova tions have heen hitlterte prevented. The preseet petitioners Loire CJllli` til this House from time to time, not humbly seeking a hems, - but elaimine as a 1 ight the abolition of tleoe laws t fleeted tOr the oeurity of the Conetitn lion. But, my Lent o we 'sever hear one word of conces sions on the part of . the Roman Catholics. They call for an . unqualified surreedcr of all the safeguards with which the wisilum of our ancestors has surrounded the Constitu den and the Established Church, ;• but they never propose to couciliate Protestants hrthe removal of any one of those wicked decrees which disgrace their religious code. In the creed of Pope Pins 1 . Y., admitted by the heads of the Roman Catholie `china, will be found this •authentic exposition of their doctrine. " I also admit the Holy Seripttnes according to that sense which our Holy Mother the Church has held, or does hold, to whom it belongoto judge of the true sense and inter pretation of the Scriptures,, Neither will I ever take and interpret them otherwise than eecording to the unanimous , consent of the Eetliers.'"l'llue ,the whole Scriptures were to he received. in the sense ef, the ifoly Mother Church, and Do rosin within the pale of that. Church dared to put any other ceeoti uction upon them, . This was directly opposite to the writings of the Holy Apostle, and to the express worA e of our blessed Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. What said St. John on this point? Hear Isis words- , -- Beloved, believe opt everyspirit,but try the spirits whether they are of God, becan.,e meaty false prophets are gone out into the wet Id.'" He would agaiu ask. whether. St. Paul was not eon- clusi, e On this point, where he says, "Prove all things, and .hold tint that which is good ?" Now, he would like to know how, he could hold fast the good things, if he were obliged to )ielil to the sense and. direction of this Huly Mother Church? The Apostle Peter—St. Peter, the favourite Apostle of the Flemish Church—required them to .be ready to give a reason for the hope within diem. What reatten e could any. , man give for his. hope, which the Holy Mother Church forbade him to investigate, and prevented him Irons understanding ? The words of the 13104 : Saviour confirmed what the Apostle bad said. Were they not directed O' to search the Seriptmes, for ; in them. ye think ye have eternal life, and they are-they which testify of me?" . These were the words of the Blessed Lord and' Saviour Jesus Christ, addressed to the people who would not trust even the inspired Apostles themselves, without a reference to the Law and the:Testament. But Cat dinal Belattuine, an Ecclesiastic of b 0 mean authority in the Church of Rouse, forbids the people . to read the Holy Scriptures, and it is the uniform practice of the Church of Rome in.lreland to follow this doctrine. Dr. Doyle, in hie testimony before the Commissioners of Edu cation, said, that , there needed nothing more to render *schools obnoxious to the Catholic Church-than allow ing. the .children to read the Scriptures, without note or comment ; and if Roman Catholic parents allowed their children.. to attend such schools, being previously forbid, he should . think it, right : to - withhold from them • the sacraments. ; This was equally applied, to the Donay Bible, the version authorised by the Church of Rome. In one piece, where tile children of. Cotholie patent* were found readiug. this version of the scriptures, the poor parents were deprived of, their occupations by way of pu oiehment. The , publications of the celebrated J. K. L. woe eeenelesive on this point. In Clunmel several copies at the Gaspe". pt the Lord Alms Christ. were illegally taken from th e house of thosowho sent their children for gratui tous instruction to the schools provided for diet purpose. , In the North of Ireland an instance occurred of commit , ling to: the flutes a copy of the New Testament, as an unfit .144 for the public eye. He could produce a hundred such faciii.jo proof of the irrevereud manner in which the steered volinne was treated by the Roman Catholics. He could himself prove. that thy' reading of the 1 Sacred Word of the blessed Lord Jesus Christ, the. Saviour, was deemed by the Priesthoottan act of hostility to the. Roman Catlio lieghorelt; it was held contrary to their faith. Very soon Ofge,r his election to the See of Tuata, three gentle men e ntjed nig s li biro to solicit his subscription to a fund - for clothing the haii-ot.Oeved and periehing children of the ilionan Catholics at the free eetitool of , Tuam, under the high patronage of the Most Reverent'.Doctor Kelly. ' He refueed being in any way an encourager of arty school where the :, , g4ing-of the Sacred Word of God and of the blessed Lord Jesus Christ was prohibited. But he added, that so anxious was he asp the children should be made ac cke.ainted with the mord of the Lood Jesus, that if the Priests woolel peoyide the school with Donny T,ereasnents he would beeume a /ere lergoeubscriber. He was never after ap plied teopon the' *object, from which he eoncheled that . his - terms were Ohjecteii to, awl by afterwards wrote to the master of the school, who told hien that the reading of the sacred word of God, and of thee Saviour, the Lord Jesus .christ, with the Apostles, was uniformly prohibited. This he ieoew to be the case in every school under the eye oed direction of ,the Church of Rome.- He had visited many schools of this eieereietion in his own diocese, and never found a single etteeptrun 14 PO rule. • He bad never found i n them one copy of the Holy eSe4eeteres.. What said the Hair I lieripturee upon the subject? He begot! their Lord- • ships to oeoeillt Moses on this point.---(A ' len& )---Let the How Oro to the sixth chapter of Deuteronomy, a n d' Noble Lords would fend that Moses, addressing the people of Israel, says, " And theke words which I command thee this day shall be in thine Heart-sel:4- ehou shalt teech them etiligeOdy unto thy children, and shall tag,: ,oy them when thou sitteat in thine honee, and when thou weikeee by the way, and whoo eltou liest down, and when thou risest up; and thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thy hand, and they shall be at frontleta -tetes s eeen . thine ryes—(Continued leagieter)—and thou shalt write alive, - upon thy posts of thy hoiaz and on thy gates." Now he 36 , 4 - 1,44 ask Noble Lords what woe the nee—why should Moses—(A 440-- command to write epod laws upon their heirts and door posts Vibe people woks not to read them ? He begged the noose to have the goodiiil.SS,Oe turn to the 17th verse of the settee Chapter.--(Here some A - 64.... Lord coughed with a strength svbieh proved the soundest poeeible state of lungs. The I?<e3i. Prelate proceeded.)—What :said Moses in the 17th ehaPtee Of-tbo 3300 k of Deuteronomy ? " You shall diligently keep the eetorperednients ef the ,tord your God, and his testimonies mid his oteeteetes which h e ise.aoommanded thee." ' These were the woos a gos'es, New he stras.ld beg the House to turn to Isaiah.—(Here the impatience of Ifott Meuse became unequivocal.)—Let - Noble Lords consult the4kh hipster of Ezekiel. Joshua, the occessor of Moses, was eottonandsti lee pod himself not to Suitereko BookOf the Law to depart tett of ids eete; . etli, but to meditate woo it day and night—to observe elf ti.ot , was written thereto. `!'ere he to detain their Lordships I,;; reading to diem extracts iii p the Sacred Volumes, to ,which ha had referred, he coal fitrtheseereee to them that it was the wild Sf God that they siMuliVbe mid and oit=co imeil and studied by tiie c.eOnle day and night ; and he de . ea tks eyhole,Chtiech of Wime t nuote one single et:ietee of those Baeoe'd .Yolomes- e -one ,siegfe very of Divine Reve: Iltion—one precept a It I I ,:,i and ..,, , Jesus Christ, ..,ay...0,i;r Chriet, or of his Apostles, toiesiVy ihe"tiitlilialding the Scriptures from the people. Now lie •t'etiel A . their .1 -i ewete hip, woeld• they in their wisdom, would they io their e l :. 4e sacred canse u - , 4 , :f iol D i they ivine ti T th rltl: ) , f : i i: i l d :o p r ox i v h e e r iegard 'tiioretehiar Church---";:,3l2l:CetHlOk Church, which placed a d t 0,, , ,ci xr 1 • sea p,p the sacred wor d ;9 :. , • • .., ,ong,uoz.) H e . ld tio'w revert to the creed of pt l ie 1,,,:1y., :',. 4,r. .. efer weu 'the House to Ore th;rd article, where it Was Thus tvl i dah 5) 1;0 and eMbrace ipoetolical of t h e s ame ,Ciiiireh." es . i.e.` ft! eeri 'al'.iii eie4e'ulsoisatstitidit4rsl/./ion, ar,i 0,1 ether seee,•yences and conetitutieoe this artie.le the diseiplee of dee tended Vas, that otideti ;eceive with implicit and Romeo' Cetholic Church mesei blind obedi4see thipt!s which arerot . this was a 'deetrisee directly opposite to thin of I.l,:eptional :1;,..;:.y0 to them; z ii : i,l , Church of Eneehod. • Whet said the Apostle St. paid en the Oulejeet? Woold Noble jeuele bbi censult the Epistle of St. Paul the ApOstle to the G a latian,s—Pugker) — e ebepter 1, yerve $, they woolde find that St. Pelt' says— ' " Though we or as "anzel i'* Heaven jk i-e - acli any other gasped unto y ttai dem that which we have 'peeeched unto you, let him he accursed." This wa s the Oropcistion of the Holy Apoistle Pahl 'Now he would ask heir Lorde i. • ehips, and all rational and unprejudiced people, if the'ithes was not 'another Gospel .than' that preached by the Apori. ties? Was nit the' doctrine of Purgefory another Gospel? Was not the Invocation of Saints another Gospel? Was not the veneration of Images another Gospel? Yes, these were all other Gospels than those of the Scripture ; there was not one of them to be found in the Gospel of the blessed Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. The be* of Deuteronomy confirmed this pesssjge of St. Paul; and in the hook of Revelation were there remarkable words:—" I testify to every man that hears the words of the prophecy of this book-=That if any man add unto these things, God shall add unto hint the plagues that are writ ten in this Bettis ; but if any man shall take away from. the words written in this Book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the Book of life and out of the Holy City,,aiol from-the things which are written in this BOok." These were the words of St. John in the Revela tions, and he would ask whether the Catholic Church did not add to this Book their many false doctrines and works of supererogation, and whether in many respects they did not take aevay from it ? He would ask whether they did not violai. the commandment, " Thou shalt not make Unto thyself any graven image—(laughter)—nor . the likeness of any thing in Heaven abovee--(coughing)—nor in the earth beneath ? I —(Langhine.) The Learned and Right Rev. Pm elate persevered in reading part of the second Command-, meet, notwithstanding the impatience of the House, and con tinued laughter below the bar. lie would now wish . to trouble their -Lordships with a few words mespecting the Ro man Catholic doctrine of purgatory,e--eLoud letighter.)— Purgatory was the great source of re_ venue of the Churcleof . Rome. The Priests received Very large sums" for saying prayers-and performing Masses, and for their other pious endeavours to extract the souls of poor sinners out of pur gatory, or the- souls even of those who die in God's favour. This doctrine tiok from the blessed Saviour his functions, in order to promote the interests of the Priests. He firmly believed that there was not a word in the Scripture to au- thorise such a doctrine. The prophet Isaiah' was con clusiveon this subject. He said, "If the wicked will turn away and keep to my statutes, and do what is lawful And rielmt, he shall live, he shall not die." He would ask their Lordships how did - the doctrine of purgatory agree with this ? lie would remind Noble Lords that •the prophet Isaiah prophesied under their precious and moat blessed Saviour—(Coughing.)—The prophet said of their SaViour the Lord Jesus Christ, " Surely be has borne, our griefs and carried our sorrows, yet we did esteem hint stricken end smitten of 'God, and afflicted. But he was wounded' for our transgressions—he was bruised for our iniquitiesL-' the chastisement of our peace was upon hint—and with his stripes we are healed." If they were healed by the stripes of Christ, what was the use of the prayers of the Priest to get the soul out of purgatory ? The prophet Jeremiah preached the same doctrine upon time subject as the prOnfiet Isaiah.—(Here the Learned and Right Rev. Prelate quoted from the prophet Jeremiah, but the coughing in the ticiuSe, and the laughter about the bar prevented our heariog a syllable.) What did St. John write in the ReVelatiOns? He would tell the House. St. John said, " Blessed ate the dead that die in the Lord, front henceforth, yea, said' the Spirit, that they may rest from their lubsurs, anti their works do follow them." They were told in this passage, -by St.. John, that the dead rested from their labours. e Now if Purgatory were adMitted, according to the doctrine Of the Roman Catholic Church, the dead who died- in the Lord must pats .through this fire of pur gatory, before they could reach the Lord. He need scarcely expose the irrationality of such—ideas; bet the Scripture said, . 0 Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believes shall sot come unto condemnation." On this doctrine of purgatory he cuuki go on for hours (a loud burst of laughter.)—He woulei now trouble their Lordships with a few words upon another important part of the Roman Ca. tholic . worship. He alluded to the performattce of public worship in an unknown language. 'He wished to call their Lordships' attention to thisesubject, for it was material in itself, and had an important connection with other subjeets. If one uniform language might be used unknown to the people who attended to benefit by the service,. what was the use of the miraculous gift of tongues? But what said the Apostle St. Paul, as if foreseeing the error into which the Catholic Church would aiierwards fall? He -spoke -of addressing people in their own languages, and made this a circumstance of aggravation that they did not hear him—(coughing).—lie would trouble— (Caught:Jo—he must trouble their Lordehips—(Laugh ing)—on the subject to which he had before alluded— the invocation of Saints and the veneration of images. :This was an important part of the Catholic Church, and as important a means of corrupting the people. In the 24eh Article of the Creed of Pope Pius IV., it was thus written—" I also believe- that the Saints reigning together with Christ are- to he honoured and invocated, and that they offer prayers- to God for Us, and that their relics are to • be held in veneration." Now, in tke 21st Article of the same creed would be found the following words:--" I most firmly assert, that-the Images of Christ, of the Mo ther of God, who was always a virgin, and also of the other saints, ought to be had and retained, and that due honour and veneration ought to be given them." What said the Bible to this doctrine ? . It forbid the worshipping and praying to any other titan the blessed Lord and Saviour Jesus. Christ, and it asserted the Lord :Jesus Christ to he the only Mediator between (3od and man. The Catholic doctrine was, therefore, the most grass idolatry. The Scripture said.—" Thoti'llialt- worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." Again, "Thou shalt not make any graven image."—(At this attempt to repeat the second Commandment, the House interrupted the speaker by laughing and coughing.) With respect to the worship of saints,. the saints themselves would not wish that any one should fall down and worship them: When the people would fall down and worship St. - Peter, the Apostle di rected them to get up, aid would-not receive their worship. When the people would offer ' sacrifice to Rumbas, he rent his clothes, and runeing 'to the people, ex claimed, " Why -do •ye these - things ?" lie (the Arch bishop) had repeatedly witnessed the poor of Ireland, wor shipping with the zeal of the feverish worshippers of Bar nabee. He might be tell that this was not the Roman Catholic religion. I3e it so. He would coatend, how ever, that it was the practice of Catholics, and if time Pas tors of the Church would not discountenance or suppress such practices, they were justly imposed to time imputations cast upon them. Ife Was hot against the cause of Ewan e-ipation—he would emancipate his fellow-creatures in the true sense of the wend of God. He would emancipate them from their present degradsd boodage, front their igno - e peep end superstition. The g am e of WINCHIIStEA had always observed that those who came lbrward in support of the Catholic 'Claims 'uniformly contended that the - Roteman Catholic faith was not now what it was in the 17th century. Now, if it bad changed, 'he wished to know at what period that al teration haul taken place. He challenged the whole Roman Cutholip Hierarchy to strew that such a change had at any period occurred. In corroboration of this, he could ad duce many-proofs, but would not gp father than by re ferring to two passages to a letter write -n some years ago by Doctor Troy, - the Titular Archbishop of Dublin. He gespeessly said, that the decisions of General Councils were of ipfaleilde .authority, and also binding on the con sciences of the Catholiee." The 4th S'em don of the Coun cil of Lateran was, • accordin g to Doctor Troy, one of these that " expressly prescribed - the detbronemeet of he retic sovereigns, and declared particularly, that all engage ments enteees, into with heretics, even although sanctioned by oaths, were not biediog." As to the argument adduced by the Noble Maremnse from the privilegee Lett elics fn• inycd in ravioli Protesant Countries, that plight have Weigjee if ;t apps octal on impartial investigation that there Was army. 'one li44'? i?fotOani State in Europe which had enjoyed during the lest fifty ye 44 tp i . ,7v free institu tions which we had enjoyed here for three tulles, that et - l'i.q. It has so happened, however, that none such existed, for the free Protestant 'States of Germany had nothing like a Vonstit4i.;:n nntil 1815. Time Netherlands had also been referred to ( t riVt thkce, the Roman Catholics had not r • atf , o, been admitted to politicarPOwer eneill. 27, so that there was no possibility of ascertaining What ndglit be time res'e'nt . ;poet, especially when he could with confidence ask whether it was miei ‘es;l!:eown that coneiderable ill will at present existed between the Iseieee. ratholiims and the Protest ants there? 'He would not allude to linssa or the United .tat(s, - because there •aii,ld be tie comparison ti ; tweou ' a Repnhlic Which bad no Estkibliqied Cliure34 mad :a . 'lllol . archi wliii;h i had one forming an an integral part of lei ('oustieWe't4 Lee eo pile pen give his i•op s ; . e , to measures which wymiid endanger the existericiiif the'r 4l.l3 f ' tegtant Establishment, and let then . ' not deceive themselves by suppesing that hinvimeer much they ntig!it give they could every satisfy the encroaching spirit of the Church of teonee. The connection, as a powerful writer expressed it, betnieen tlirgendelm.p.e/re)l, aptl . the Roman Catholic As- Yl t ... ... . .. sociaiiini; and lieUreen'ie kiaa l drs of,hoo, i.# oh,. ape ketCli idea. One of thOk leaden", 'O'Cdinielt, at ;i ineeting fre.ld pushy the 155th of last Month, said, " The Catholics have already' ttem,).ed en al their enemies except the Church ," betle (Lord NV.) trnated tkif Lori!ships would 'never consent to the passing of meas{ires That wthild destroy that gbnra,whiCh under the ConstitUtion has produced gp much benet•' - ' • .. . 1 tf • . . ' Vie Mergemess of E.A1 . 4513 . 1.1 . 11.Y was not prepared to say that he slendel resist th e claiine of the Roipap Catholic's if .. certain points were cOricedeNeliein, which were nee4reseeY for the protection of ' the Protestant ChU-ch. He . "shotI1 11 ) 1 for on , maintain the absolute necessity that the Roman Catholic Bishops should he appointed by the Sovereige.- -'f he Noble Marquess had shewn, that in every Protestant . country of Europe such a power had been granted to the 31 - Civil Authority. If he were asked what was the danger be apprehended? he fairly confessed, that at this moment he apprehended very little—(hear) —but at some future pe riod it was impossible te say whether a Foreign Potentate might not find it itsinterest.to sow dissensions, and will ing instruments might then be found in a body then less respectable than he believed the Priesthood at present to be. The influence of the Roman Catholic Priests over their flocks must, from the very nature of their doctrines, be at all times very great ; and it seemed to him madness to give Political power to those who are looking fur temporal advan tages to Riiman Catholics, and for spiritual advancement t) the Pope. If the Noble Marquess (Lansdowne).should hereafter snake, any proposition regarding securities, he, for one, should be most happy to give them all fair conside ration ; but, until.those securities were provided, be should be under, the, necessity of .perseveriog in his vote against concession.' The Marquis of LANSDOWNE explained on some point respectiug a Catholic establishment, in foreign countries, lint We Were unable to hear his Lordship at all"dietinetly. Earl BATHURST began by stating the particular quet thin before'the Houie. The proposition Was, to consider' the laws affecting the Romau Catholics, and no man would suppose.that the Commons,isi passing it, only meant in the terms that they would "'take the laws . into con sideration." What hail tey, in. fact, done for the last twenty.six years, but " take the laws into eensideratien," and the real object was to adopt " a final and conciliatbry adjustment." What, then 'was to he concluded front 'the Vote to which the Commons bad agreed?:---that they meant to give a solemn pledge to accomplish the adjust- , ment so far as their legislative powers would enable them to go. What then was the purpose of the Nobleyarqu:s in bringing forward the subject here, but to' induce the House of Lords to adept the same resolution, and'thereby to give the same pledge? Now his (Lord Bathurst's) objection was, that he would riot give a pledge unless he bad some assurance that it was iu his piwer to redeem it. Of course, nothing could he done without securities, and the Noble Marquess Lad given no inforination that he - was in possession of any plan with that object, and he bad given no intimation that he was prepared to . fellow up the Reiollition by any ulterior measure. Looking at what had been the course adopted by the other House of Parliament,' and at the:measures which, on thia.sUbject had emanated from it, he inust 'say 'that he despaired; at present, that their Lordships would be able, if th e y 'incautiously gave the pledge, satisfactorily to redeem it. Without going ' back to the different schemes from. time to time in agit - ae tion, he would only refer to the last, the Bill of 1825; which had met with the support of the Noble Marquess. tie was anxious that their Lordships should recollect its provisions, and then ask themselves this smestion—Whee titer, it 'previomi to its introduction, the. Houee of Com mons littd passed the ResolutiOn'he had before read, and the Noble Marquis had persuad e d th e ir LordshipS to con cur in it, and thereby to give a pledge, they would not consider that pledge redeemed by the measure of 1825, .when brought up from the other House, and submitted to' 'their 'deliberation 7 He did not wish to fatigue their' Lordship by going, through the pro Visions of, the BM - Tr 1825 ;' but he would direct attention to some e part of it.' According to that Bill, a Commi ss io n was t o h e established, and that Commission appointed by the Crown, iihd when any %die, Dispensations, or instruments of any kind (foi there was to be no limitation) were transmitted from the See of Rome, it was to 'be submitted to thet Commission, which was to ascertain whether there was any thing in' it subversive' of publiC tranquillity, or injurious to the Pro- t,estant Establishment. If found unobjectionable, then the receipt of such a document was•to be notified to the Lord Lieatenant of . Irelaude but the Commissioners were not required to inform hiM of the contents of the instrument,' but simply to notify to him that such an instrument had been transmitted, with their opinion that it was not inju rious nor dangerous. Then the instrument was to be sent back, and afterwards it was to be published and carried into execution. Thus, if that Bill hail passed, it would have been made the law of the land-Lthat the instrument might not only be polished, but carried into execution . before'the Crown hail ever seers it or given its sanction to it. After the Lord Lieutenant had inspected it, ' and knew its contents, however perilous they might be to the tranquillitfof the State, and the security of the Pro • teetant Church, still by law the Catholics might have de manded that the instrument should have been carried bite' strict execution. Such was the nature of the measure as it respected documents. of every _ kind transmitted from Rome. Thus he effect, these Commissioners were • to be the guardians of the Protestant &Aabli,lunint in Church and State. Then who were to be the Ctnnini4ianera? for, under sueheireurnstane the choice of them was a mattee of some importance. It 'would be expected that the Crown would have the nomination of the Commissioners, and that it would at least take care that the Majoay were Pro testants: But what was the fact? The Crown was ac tually prohibited from appointiug a single Protestant as a Member of the Commission. The mere fact of hie being a Protestant was a disqualification for hOldingThis office; so that in a Bill professedly to remove Catholic disqualifi-: cations from' holding civil Offices, a new civil office is created, to fill which.a Protestant is slisqualified.-(Hear.) -=Who, then were these inspecting Commissioners? The Crown was prohibited from .naming any Protestant, and it was also prohibited from naming any Catholic, even though a Peer. No layman of the Catkolic persuasion ' could sit upon this Commission. Bishops only were to be the members of it, so that Roman Catholic Bishops were to be the guardians of the Protestant Church.—(Hear.) — He would appeal, then,, to their lordships, whether the enactment of such a law would haVe teaded, in the terms of the Resolution of the House of Commons, to give " sta bility to the Protestant, Establihnient ?"—(Clicers. Then we Dome to the next question,, as to the appointment of Roman Catholic BiShops. If time COMmissieners are to be Roman Catholic Bishops, it seemed:reasonable' that-the Crown of these realists should have at least some coritroul in the nomination of those Bishops. What was the fact under the law of 1825 ? After a priest had been elected, and afterwards appointed by the See of Rome to, be a Roman Catholic Bishop, the name of the party was to be traurnitted to the Commissioners, :and they were to Certify .to the Kiug that he was a loyal subject, and then he was authorised by the Bill to exercise alkhe functions of a Roman ‘ Catholic Bishop, however the Crown might disappirove'd his ap pointment. He was well aware he be told that all these objections proceeded from antiquated and ex ploded notions, and that there was, in truth, no danger to be apprehended. The Noble Marquess had advised the House to look to other countries, and to observe how well the machinery worked, and how easily the object might be ac complished. There; he said, Protestant~ and• Roman Ca tholics lived together in the utmost confidence and hamony. Undoubtedly in Holland, Roman Catholics were admitted to all civil efliees—no man was disqualified, and all might sit in the Legislative Assembly; and the peaceauti harmony were attributed merely to the circumstance 'of this community of privilegei Looking at Holland, what wits the fact ? The Kingdom of the Netherlands wasedivided into two parts-.. the one Protestant, the other Roman Catholic. In that part where the Peotestants were most numerous, the Pretestant religion was dominant ; but where the Catholics were most numerous, the Roman Catholic' religion Wes dominant. liad not'this been the case, did the NOble Marquis, or did the House, ieeppose that the boasted harmony would have prevailed? Would the Roman Catholics have been satisfied and tranquil even with seats in the Legislative Assembly, if their religion had not been dominant in' that part of the Netherlaede where they outnumbered their. opponents ? The same Telnark would' apply to Prussia i for in Silesia, where the 'Roman CatholiCa Were most numerous, their re ligion was the established religion of the country. Paseing over the Atlantic, the Noble Marquis had directed the at tepticnt of the /100!, to the United States of America, as if he Wished this country tq ittlitattt e*antl- 11 e, True it was th a t these was uo establishment in the United States ; but was th e ,House prepared to say that there should be no establishment in Ireland—(llcer hear hear)?—Why did there exist such an enmity to the Church of England,' and sushi a wi e lm on. the part of the Roman Catholics that it should not continue the established religion in Ireland? Tliere was eoinething in the Possum catholic religion which prevented its combioation with any Other faith ; and it was well le ' now n that if the Chnrcli of 'Thigland were not to Cm - 16'611e th e F,stablislied't ISich of Irefend, the Protestant interest of the empire would lie 7•liaken its centre...e (Hear; hear.) . --1t Was inteterov'eu'ith'ilie ef LLO cijßl4i'i, and the preteatent :Chp'rcli and the State must stain) Or fall together. For hie part, he ehoidd rejoice if the time should entitle when it might be safe and wise to accomplish the object of the Noble Marquis; but as lie at present saw no chance that the pledge of the. House of Commons would be redeemed, lie was unwilling that the fisn of Lords should also enter into giiecei - ,ement which Unable , ' The Marcinis of LANSDOWNE felt it necessary to say a few wiirde, to rescue hinasellfroin one of the grossest, though no doubt unintentional misrepresentations to which m ww ppyrtblg 0. b `4lll).etecl. ''}'he 4oli:e Ear; apitad that ink Marquie Of tanadowne) hind led the'attention of the House to . ' the Conclitioirof the United States of Arrietica, hie tit purpoeeedintitetioP• If here was mimic point more than anbther upon which he liad been . careful to giunel hiniSelf 'from tetierepresentiitim, it wee that. Ile & had men the attention of clip Htiluse to the ltnitcel State's of A sueiica, where there was no esteblishment, in order to show, that if Roman Catholics . were mischievously ' dis posed, that Circumstance gave them an advantage which Lthey did not possess elsewhere , If the Noble Prl thought ' that the Aimee of our established religion afforded facili ties to Roman Catholics, it wait hard that it should be im•, puted to him (Lord Lansdowne) that lie had promulgated a different opinion.- He: bad called the attention-of the House to America; "not fur the,purpose of imitation, but for the sake of argument.. For the sake of example, he had led the Rouse to the cousideAtion of the state of European countries, with different establishments, Protestant, theran, rind Calvinistic, which were flourishing, noturith-. standiug Roman Catholics were admitted to the enjoyment of ci vil offices. Earl DARNLEY should have deemed it almost inspedi _nen t _for him- to -hate addressed :the Houk:" is this trite though important subject, bet foe some of the ohservatioes, of the Noble Earl (Bathurst.) The Noble Earl had spoken as if the point to be decided were not the Reialution of thie Session, but the. Bi/leofelBls. k ik (Lord Darnley) - eitteeated their Lordships to consider whether, of the three modes pointed out by the Noble Marquess, it could adopt any'but one. There was, indeed, a class of persons in this country, but more especially in Ireland, upon whom all argument would be thrown away-who were detertnined, Whatever might be said, to deny to their Catholic felloes- Subjects the privileges of the Constitution : others, who had been long conscientiously opposed to concession, were now Willing to give way if any sufficient security could be pointed out. On this point be (Lead Darnley) could Say, now mast sincerely, as he said on the debate on the Test and Corporation Acts, that the beet security was conees s.on : cenditional, in the first case, according to the Bill' offered to the House, ,and unconditional, in the list case, relying upon the fidelity and loyalty of the Roman Catholics. But' although that was and always had been hia , (pinion, ' he was ready to meet half way those who thought that securi ties were emesSary. It was the business, however, of these who required securities to show the degree and . nature of the danger. He hoped, nevertheless, that .better times would ere long arrive,andhe augured well, more especially troin the liberal spirit recently displayed by the Right Rev. Bench, and particularly by the, Right Rev. Prelate now in his place, who en a recent occasion had told, in so many words, that in his judgment there was no reason why any set of Christians should be deprived of the civil bene fits of the• Constitution if they could give sufficient secu rity for the establishment ! He was sure their - Lordships .would find the difficulties. which now beset then' as to Iree land increase—they would press on them more and more; and a time might come when the claims of the Catholics would be enforced. His Noble Friend had wisely abstained froth entering into any irritating topics, and he 'should follow his example; but.there was one subject to ,which the Catholics frequently referred with strong feelings—he. meant the violation of the Treaty of Limerick. He; for one, thought that Treaty had been violated, and he was • prepated to show that it had; but the question did not rest on what had happened a century ago, or on what was then the stateof the country ; it was to be decided by the rule of present policy, and by the circumstances of the present moment. If granting these claims were not consistent with justice, with sound policy, and with the precepts of "the Christian religion, ,he would argue it on the ground of 'expediency tilorie-lie would also coutend it was both right and just. Passing over, however, the Treaty of Lime rick, as one of the grounds on which the claims of the Catholics might be justly founded, he would mention an other circumstance. It hood been stated, and stated pub licly, that at the Union with Ireland, he would not say a pledge or guarantee had been given—though he had heard these words in that House—hut he would say, that there was an understanding with Mr. Pitt and Lord Coinwallis, that Eneancipetion should form a part of - the Union. It was proVed very distinctly by Mr. Pitt's votes and actions; and above all, by his giving up more power than ever a Minister of this country possessed, because he could not carry that measure that lie had always desired. He was surprised therefore that , persons met annually 'to celebrate his birth-d a y by Pitt Clubs, who were opposed to his opinions, and who !sought by these means to give to their men priaciples the sanction of Mr. Pitt. (Hear, hear.) It was impossible for him to refer to what hap 'petted in another place, but he, saw with astonishment — and who could see with indifference?-,that the Ministers of the Crown attended at Pitt Clubs. It might be called I • I a Pitt Club; but be did not know what that meant; it would be better to call it en Orange,Club, or an Eldon Club ; for to imply, by calling it a Pitt Ciub; that Mr. Pitt I was opposed to the Catholics, :was to' libel the memory of that great man. In justice to the memory of Mr. Pitt-, injustice to the cause he advocated, he must protest against bringing the authority of Mr. Pitt 'to support the excite- Side of the Catholics. lie . saw a Noble Friend neut. him (the Marquis of Wellesley was 4tting on the Opposition benches), Who koew better than he. did Mr. Pitt's sentie inente on that subject. There was another point frequently : adverted to elsewhere, though' it had always appeared to him that no arguments Were weaker than those which went to exclude the Catholics on account of the Corona tion Oath. • -There was nothing is that Oath which could poesibly preclude the ( Sovereign granting any civil privi leges he pleased to any class of his Majesty's subjects. This WAN Mr. Burke's opinion. It was also Lord Liverpool's opinion, as his Lordship had stated it the last tilde this measure was discussed. The Noble Earl had stated, that the Coronation Oath was not an obatable to the removal of the Catholic disabilities. There was another authority, even' better than those he had already referred to, and the book in which it was contained he would advise thoca stholics te_print in a cheap form, and circulate all over the kingdom--he meant the work of Dr. Phiipott, whe,•while • he meant to serve his own Church, had effectually promoted the cause of the Catholics. This gentleman was the ad vanced guard of the Church Militant, but his arms had turned against himself. His Lordship then quoted Lord Kenyon's opinion, and Mr.. Pitt's opinion of the Coronation path from Dr.- Philpntt's pamphlet. In these opinions he saw not one word to prove that the Coronation Oath prevented the_King.frone acceding to the claims of his Catholic sub jects. Mr. Pitt's opinion was decidedly opposed to the Opinion of those who now called themselves Pittites, but it was in strict accordance with the principles lie had uni formly act-d on. His Noble Friend near him had elo quently advocated the cause of the Catholics of Ireland, but the claims of the English Catholics were stronger than these of Ireland, and yet they were most severely treated. They were denied the elective franchise, and several other privileges which the Irish Catholics enjoyed. He had often felt ashaMed when he had seen his Noble Friend, the representative of such a long line ' of illustrious ant•estore— he had felt ashamed when lie had seen the Duke of Nor folk, whose seat was is the very highest place among their Lordships, take his station' belinv the bar; and this exclu siOa Was without any reason whatever. In the reign of Elizabeth, at a time when Popery was really formidable, and the very existence of England was threatened, by whom was she defended ? The name of Howard was amongst the foremost en the list of 'her defenders. During those times of danger the Roman Catholic Peers were the de fenders of tl.!ir country. It was at a subsequent period that they were excluded from their seats in Parliament, and excluded on very insufficient grounds. The evils of the present situation of things arose chiefly from the re -straintsi exciting in the bosomy df the Catholics a feeling of hostility, which arrayed them under leaders more hostile than themselves. It was not possible that men treated as they had always been should not feel hostility. The danger arising from this was very great, and he called on their Lordships not to shut their eyes against the danger, though' he wished them list to entertain any unworthy feelings as to the consequences of the combination he mentioned ; but he Wished them to look the danger ill the face, and consider what might be the consequences of having a large body of discontested subjects at' home, under some peculiarities of our foreign policy. The Catholics were already leaflikei under leaders, and their combination could not be put down. That was impossible. When it was hemmed in et oue point, it broke at another with overpowering force : it could not be checked, much less subdued. Ile had been surprised to hear the language of the Right Rev. Prelate in speaking of the Catholic: religion; and it was impossible that the Catholics of Ireland should not feel in sulted if that language were habitually used towards them. He (Lord Darnley) was the advocate of the peeteetapt re ligion ; but he did net, therefore; think that the Catholic ieligion light to bespoken of Worse than the religion of Mithonlet.—(Heae.)--•The Catholic was not a Protestant/ toinialyt attemyys the but he was not an infidel. He %yes e o w e / 4 4 e of su a e tt h en l d r ed - ' Chrietien Cliffech, end lie was surprised to hea b l e • g d e ci l e i 4 u g t r r e l ! n h h e v s t i v d o h t i which a t towards j r s i:o ia g i a l i t t e t y s he to itsath tics elf possession h b e y u t d i' etvmitiejolbiieos liPtitstlrjae_ e load naent, also, of the efforts tem, making in I re land i be e r!tre to receive the well-meaning, but weak persons, lled tures on the Catholics. lye the Catholics were seedy o f , pagans and heathen,, I ' v n i :i t ) .1 1 , 1 j a e g d i :t n t: o o t attempt i p t)h e 't , : i t e i o s n i c c:o s n . t v h , ' s he v e t e , l v r i e . e e ao i s n: loicp.tf°uht rals e rya Made With a Bible in one hand, ..;( 1 ,4 4 "0 ' 0 11. i° °thee.; o and so the people weee Scripterce, He weeeure that all these attempts to in . - s;rease . `the number df Protestants would only increase Comparative number of the R oman Catholic. He Should be delighted to see the R oma n cathehee of jrelitud con vented to 'the reete4a"4 Church ; b'uf 'the mode 'adopted mto e mnplish this would , he was persuad e d, d o • mote inisChief thaiegOod. He knew this had already been the case, and he would,meution one instance which lie knew to he correct. In the town.of Drogheda, there were two po pular Protestant preachers, much followed by the inhabi tant;; hut after a Missionary made his appearance at Drog heda, the preachers were deserted, and not one Catholic ever e 6 0 afterwards went to hear them. Si m il ar , e mits lo".' e ti tution, , tievedetweu.notieed at other. places. It, pets plain , tri pei , question.- 'finlisaiitioe of the 'Charter schools, up ,e,o thisiesf C 0 0 1 all quest' illation, that every thing possible was to. he'dens e ts • renders it • and insult the Catholics. It was an insult eve!' can he as • pose them capable of changing ' their religion d er e' present circumstance,. A high spirited and hig it 4st people like the Irish, would never forsake the' " • . rf a ts ): , ll,y i le f ; l : k f.am ' et o aoa t ,t i nl i all at ::, l , ' :their ',forefathers so long sia'it was exposed to re 0 . elm clear!' By withholding their, rights from' the - Catholics , e made' the Catholics and the Protestants enemie s Rio ' • hfimrwtoh which dered :the whole.cOuntry insecure—no /slm edida"; . from :the 1 with safety,and all those, who could improve I:e;1 0 ,i ,set ilremained abroad :. Having said thus much, here plore their Lordships to take :the subject into tO ir elli 1 deration. . He' hoped : ;and trusted that their 1) . , th e pat tic ,would, accede to . the application ; and he coal' bile • ahl l er conceive that any Minister,. he could not pesenl' i l a t 4 : ~defee t sibe cl ea that hiaNeble and Illustrious-Friend, w o uld put t ' g o s know iipoi the claires of the .Catholia: He hoped ,• whatee r sk i , e' e le l ee i e ' e ties might be required of the Catholics—and be? .SS a - -- 1 , - ,s - e ,' to say that they . Would assent to any securities ideld p d .... pr ove it i! ing up the Catholic religion—he trusted , and 10 s. • elusion it, his Noble Friend aed ' eheir Lordships would notelet'', to their *a hopes of the Catholics.--I(klear, hear.)—lie hOre ~. had coma Lordships would do the Catholics justice; be belie', . which'ilit it w o uld be expedient to d o so , an d h e was s ure tl" d ,of delibera Duke at the head of th e G overnmen t could ' gain ; (Hear, het laurels than those which he would receive for gill"' •,, were, and to the Empire and to Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) that e ver S i r s .a 4 d ite M i A na N uti N i E b r e S be s l p o e w ke thje fro b n a t r. w thecr e o , sSebenene e,, ' •• , hear. )• A w untlerkw' r now ? Y his Lordship condemned the exaggerated speeches 1 " the aggregate meetings. His Lordship argued, we' . . House, as stood, against the . propriety of intrusting Roman , with legislative power. If their Lordships) were ' id , ~. n i li n i :u ee oc t e v :l e 'l e . e l d e x r is c ti el it e. t i destroy otir present Church, the best plan Wu' ground of , admit the Catholics to a share in the Legislature. , . e . say that th The Earl of GUILFORD opposed the motion - as °. to the principles of the Constitution. It was' to u ., R th o e n p la r n in c ei a p t l h e ol o k f l ex t c h l a u t sio ti n w fr p om rin p c :li o t f ica o l r p aon w ge ei c a a r ve it '; wound up natePeerse , is no art( country. He denied that th e re p ea l o f t h ese late" s ' blessed," produce tranquillity iu Ireland. • On the Contrary, . • exclusion, Jieved, that by giving power to the Roman Catlesh € • • _ , td eased. j it would tend to. disunion, and perhaps the sepses , e unjust and the. two countries. It was easy to talk of Securi o continuant what security could there be sgeimethe restless a nje ; • :,ts, s t,iiiiii i• io (i jaanri n itgioth i c S i rfo s :Con in ra:et of the Roman Catholic Priests to perform their sate it. it. Ido i of spreading the influence of ' their Church?' chi t :,,, itself, a del there was a Popish Con v ention, established, " ' r , • • ged to, pro -, open rebellion against the litce. - at least - in .dire c e s political di tradiction of its spirit and letter. . 'flee • Retrutn - s, ; dishonours lie religion vitally affected the safety of Chu pios rch iti s o n o ?: s - yi Vo . h.t i •retist ht i tilij g e i ct in fin h i i s s elf fee to ble tli7 He was a h w e ar m e igh th t it s Da pute"L • . • „. 1 admit, being a higotted Churchman, who was Contending w e ared, that divided all( temporal emoluments of his profession. fie would) the imputation of sordid 'Motives with conteinetS , any other t would support the Church of England as long o ' l , e convinced it was one of those establishments teb ie r e ded to the welfare of the country. When -he Is i e r, ' fieation, be, ' ' 'viii s l iPl l. i t l er i o a' t ' m u : s t co e i °f e n t. n'o n t a l u n mP l ei o e z : , doubts and fears of a horrible superstition benigbit7: pc:ll6°n of the•kingdotia, and the hollow vapours of'e liberality darkening the prosperity of the British ~1 7, i home and abroad=when he saw the discipl,es,..°, schools refuse a religious educatibn to : chiltitiliod , 19 c , . a se ee . that it Might be infected with ' the doctrines of •iir e • - .‘' put them and` , modern valuable ipallialaocsoiepthyyt—ba7phleaucehe d i a sa j u e ' a c i ja ve rd ry r_ t h a t :. g 4,130 : " . , , e n ce in iis t y t i e e y n o , i n t:o: he saw the edge of the law blunted by the freq"'el crime; he lelt it his duty to come forward and giv e t i. of perpetual assistance to support the civil and religiousfl int', - e . ie ,e' - et. an interi , under which the country had risen to gre a tness , ' 0 many centuries enjoyed happiness. For these r e p o t gave, to, the trusted the resolution of the Noble Marquis would °° unfit depot adopted. . Do ti fr anc hi se— ' The Bishop of DURHAM alto. objeCted to the ' ~ and y e t you He could not co n sent t o an • e qual p ar ti c ip a tion `° i eepahle of 1 rights by persons holding the doctrine of a. ( livid°, the same Oil glance ; all ,other cla s ses of the Ki ng ' s su bj ec ts so f - c d ~, fell ex e rc i se their whol e a ll eg i ance , a nd th a t a l one ent i t l e d thew e ,' r privilege full enjoyment of their civil r i g ht s . H e did uot,'" U SS laail,iouov question the eespect of the Roman Catholics for 'bete r e United Kil He had no doubt they would faithfully and hon °l o , more into': perform their obligations, as far as they were at libli ‘ ;' have taken • do so. But the submission in which they were - an ' J f recent Ate, to the - Pepe rendered it impossible they could 1;0 gt": r lute ) civil of jests. The Right Rev eren d P re l a t e referted , to w e r' l , . Bill in the dente of Dr. Doyle, the Roman Catholic Bishop ' they weree dare, before the Committees of both Houses o fPOl O . might du s o in support of his statement. In these opinions b e , ' recently t'•" o :Bishop of Durham) could not concur. They WeLe far as it lei.. , same ma which objections to the admission of the . 1 " 1 e • 'mist sny, Catholics to political power bad been founded w iv e a the Revolution. The. Right Reverend Prelate q'' ° :, passage from Lord Clarendon to this effect, and r ° , s p arliament also to the :opinions of Doctor Barrow. He had $e For Por my Lt asserted that it was vulgar and uugentletnatdr° `.(.):•' brillian t . such argument„ as these; and history were to be considered as book-headed bloelsVa . - co up Won this Mi yet, in , the face of such observations as these,.; it ;be cannot ent e r be Jetaethbered that these same arguments bad I victuals whc over and over again tauntingly brought forwart!' de owing to ti Right Reverend Prelate then referred (as sel eee ur e d stood) to . ionic • questions that .had _been P ubl- a I, t te t i l h . k' l o l ata tl i ti lVd U e o i l :i . f k l ng a tvh l t l eto t h h aal t , the fi rst of which was, whether the Pope ' l l - p e; iude r et t „ h a i i s n , l i tog l ilanipl o yro r eiiii • ny*l t ir e ise m te p tos ora temporal authority ? and the answe r 6 'l s ' ' veil e d th e was, that, the Pope neither had, nor pretended r ° , 4 ? , ''cunt of the any such authority. The next question was—wbul 1- , nature and extent of the. Papal authority—how d° )',lO, glorious tith fine it-? What sort of answer might be given to tbi'-'O, 4110 w-count t b i e on a li v e e d ry id d n ifr o i t l. k en n t ow o I cannot cot , ne bu f t ro h m e w t a h s at pe w rs h u i a ch de. w l x tl , ei f t a i r i ... :.; 9o 'y dsree due i Many cases were also cited, .but they appeared t° Ri ot, tholies of he contain nothing to the point. The highest pnw er a l' repress th:efinlitiwhi, tined in any government was the legislative ; that 4 ,fi 4 and by s Nu power which controlled the Sov e r e ig n; an d if, .' ~i' hum th e Ro i sers that power was entrusted to representatives whot h t e . S , material a point as that of religion, differed frog? t, 0 t he opinion vereign, such would appear to him to he the 1140 e .titthge:tsih.adcilj.tiuisdetieirsi folly. (Hear, hear.) He would not take that °g le e argument th nity of entering into the questiCia of securities, b ee ' eel respect whit appeared to him that no speci fi c plan hie] been e s ye • lions. But and be certainly thought that securities could, n a ", d tont of adi Ile might say, hOWe ve , r ; t ef, ' Rev Prelate it till their Lordships knew what de fi nitive i n ' jib' squall s • to H ‘il'a3a nature F : le) a o ir) f eed t b li rt e : i u r ing f ih a n i t' t hfto,hiauwt:atribdi the Catholics t o give & were,any security fia tb t : 11' ; l 'i r l , r topic al leg a i c a ls n o ce : tliloartdsli such ips securities es t u o accept ughought B a a s t u ci ffi b e t ie a n s t k . ed _ l3 But a i t t. s'i oldle-100 11 be left to the consciences o the Catholics. Lord 1, 'ad experi n don had 'given it as his opinion, that it would not ;e ye allegiance ' e „ i unless the Catholics consented to renounce the jurl* l " . el ' be Pope, it is le of the Pope; and as he supposed that they ,would - c o th e e we Willing to do this, he did not see what security th e r e ,. i e ( :. i l tel interr a offer which their Lordshipe ought to accept. Ande, ; ;i o e t ; lie must confess, that unless the Catholics were w it ,-,”e • 1 0 , On the O ren give tip all connection with the See of Rome, lie "'vie q Catholic cith o : lio th w e tl Cth °l.) , see how they could he admitted to those privilege' s '• they were claiming. (Hear, hear. ,'t !Pi *se in one , Viscount GODERICIL—I shall not advert to t I ' 3 :1' 14 easures ago ' of the subject of this diecussion which most direet i i,.ds hims e lf l i el• out of what we all admit to be the errors . af the Cha ne l]) b e ee s eee S ee ,Z Rome. The question before your Lordships does 0 , C." 4: "4 lied w ail h depend upon the consideration of the the It° 10 4 •1 0 , "s doing that Undies are right or wrong in the re)igieue op,ini au- ois t ' tith er ; 'and ' hold ; but whether there be any; ouch tie or &P I S reW '4lptect by between these erroneous principles e and their Politi c osd f ar the lop e tie's to the State, as can Ju 4 tifiParlinaclent in 1• 114 . 41 e e jl? 11 4 n i :I p e o iVe fort' .restrictions, which all of You, lily Lords, • admit ° - .oil!' Unspeakable i m p o rtance it : itto a ted n f d e , egi : t l h i u e ant u tit l hoi sa fs r iat il p t s °i :::: ;: ' 4;ll:tf l ead u r e le n :ltfie e ir;;:s‘ ii stliit::irisomifilalyP";eBi)bileffeoerl any Y hat I still greatly underrates 0 1 70 li d i l . properties am of ak importance ne e perhap s , as tbe,„ el 'et'' "a in days cuiee t ratter ifiall7 l P y ge l . n ii i c Ya it h i lh o i l i r e n p e e co a a l ll ita Ya l a at i , r t ts i i t o) c a u4 l h l t 4 o e attaches s t t an s i t i d i to : i i i s t e . w b l o tb pu i r t t ol' it a , -......,:::. o w f it:i ii o e o k t in 4 g Y 4o o i tz r an 6,,, b l a 4 7 ., 'S. hese e absolutely vital—(Hear ) ' lit tiOe li Fulfill an i c i s te u ! t t i Terre , Per Jo to those who oppose it.—( ll . 4 t 01 .1" , Po ie itil we, illy Lords, who are friendly to its eanceeaietts t i "" e ts } ' ' 4 ' same Va i no peace or tranquillity o°l:via of estidinelet of ) — the uniting ,4 a mid 4;. : e l ' ; o w : . : " ci l ee t i :t es e tia il r n - i o n - 14 1 l'ug's of she hearts and affections of all classe s : r e - 4 f " together s 11:l in e' all pahrtes"e ke 'Y bows 1 , that without it, you never can, yourselees. fl‘s se ee ed' d t t t o enter it entire confidence in your own eteength which is a „0"' '''l'stltit I . to your own safety, beceesee it is essential to teaeos:es 1 1 ' 0 r end ' nations th a t his 4 tiengerous thing to meddle with a" / :ens ; an e: kingdeen e e-i say that if we who advocate. the teitea 4 V ij , e ',„ l 'tively litt actuated by these considerations, ceeesS e deralion s e 'eji t el t nitle to do all'eten who love their tercet) no lees tertetete 74,y. leigi vital, must theY a P e`'' 10 1 ' And • vu t a , aeli ,, that it those who ac 6 , t4tt taoSt ,strentionsly oppo d tet M° . I' 1 melt ~ ,, a , the I te - 4 0 Co9,lltsly, W l .St it r ti to be of ve , L rop e . In crciii,.,n, If it be admitted that this steel a. Ili ng' es /. or a l Greeted gardi • lieland ' ie, beyond description, • unsetiefser ( Ls)( . lee k lltelleet ; it be admitted by the °repents of the question-- 4 : "' r el s e -41 h e .1 , not attempt to esesseal the Jaeger, to which, 6;e "" P end ' tit °f cu thereby eieeeed-s-it ie t;f ne e t 6 o t i . ittl . e vete aordivarytbeY;4 ,, r ik lb til„, i , took upon the danger ~.. ~ t,; Inning such a state oft r • r ee ~ f ose e -.sets of s be so infinitely exceeded by the danger that ' wcn'T e e-:4: , Cu L'''' - "inati . I to the Coneeitution from'' its removal by tlyst c `U I• If ~,‘ ;A - d ßeaded whist is claimed of them. (hleer, principle hirt 44-7 thi • ests amore flute 'were tree that this is a question, the of ` V el e el - extended was not one simply of expediency, but so mixed with tY,ss o , til •Y' lf with , essence of the Constitution of the country, that Y au SS€ l ee o e e l: Yeside nt not depart front' the practice of permanent politicaite L' , th ,ole - pei eret , sion of Roman CatholiCs from all perticipation in t o ,01 01 i : w il e Prapositi o g th is e l r a e t b u y re , , ip o s r of t a li c e to c , ap a e t t: d ity i .--" ` n g Vuoti nofdelitoolidl,i.nsgebeviveiritin°gili7he CA6gt