The Sun. — London, England, 1816-04-02 00:00:00

I if I 194 had nice , !ary jolt leCt tit, :el. t)119 fly Ile 9 •. IS p 7 post:.! tin: grievances of the seamen 00 foreign itatious, and hoped the lionse•would attend to them. Ile had himself witnessed them' in India Lit upwards of twenty years, and kneeLthAt the complaints re s p ect i ng p a y . sfere Made equally by the Officers as the men. lion. Gentlemen might . us well attetupt to . tell bin that black is white, as that the . naval service is 'satisfied. In respect to pensions for wounds, Or to widows,, one service was as far as 'poSsible different from the Other., .11. e could not but 'feel that the observatioos lie Lin! frelnently made would 'do sonic good ; in t, so..mer or later, the [louse must remedy these strik;ng .The giving of seamen thc:r pay every . three months, ,so tar from causing d.'se.t - timt, would prevent it, - and save the men tt i];ti enormous losses. Ile ceiuld assure tile llotte, fr,oll his own knowletice: that n ny °ill . "'" had st filrcel a lust 61 20; 25, and 30 per Cent. optin t.l.Lirb Captain WALnEcitt.tvE congratulated the Hon. Cltntleinan On the lac:S he had stated, mid holm' the lineiseu H would al m' to them. e re:tinned 'to Ent; la - MI in 1795, with a man win) had 2001. tO , Ving 1 . '41 Itilu, lie put it to the Utilise nhether i h is ought to be. Mr , .lloSr. stated the arrangeme n t w hi c h h 'h ad ero made some singe by the late Lord allow the Officers to'draW their bills, Avi.kh it was found absolutely impracticable to ,extend to tic seamen. Such a Plan would re vnre eitahli,htnent at 'every station abroad. Captnin, \r said, it was the bounden duty Llh• Lords of the ..Vitniealtv, now they had to hittk to do, to t u rn their . uttehtion to these griev 'ciuecs ; and if they did not, be wonld bring fur -4ar.l the zoihject 011 every occasion. Admiral IIAttE.IIAM thought it very . desirable 'that tie scallli:11 should have sonic part of tl,s it p y given to them abroad. IF., trusted the Gen tlenitni opposite would give the subject full consi theilitiOn. Lie contrasted the m h manner in whic the tilEd'ers of the Anny received their pay, with out loss by the cour s e of. exchange, with that of the Navy, inwhich the loses btate,lby the Gal- lant Captain were not exaggerated. 111 r. Ctiotztt Said, if the measure now proposed 'were adopted, it would . eause posiAe loss to NaSal Officers on foreign stations. The ge neral coutheol exchange find been always favour able to Naval °dicers, and . at thin moment it was „so nearly evefyWhere. Ail'. J. SMITH declared, that lie heard this last . st4tement of the llon. Secretary with surprise, anti *veil disbelief. Ile should be'glad to know upon what authority it was founded. Mr..etzoKEtt said, it was on a return from the 'Navy Offiee,w.h;ch s:towed, that in the year 1810 the exchange tr.IS favourable at the Leeward islands, the Cape it Gor l ni Hope, and Madras ; lbw. it was at pa its the Mediterranean, and bdow par only. at flalitax anti Antigua. Mr. Bittis:c; wass,atistied that there must be sotneertor this statemetit, or the 011icers of the Naty (limit hate had means of drawing bills at a .rate at which no inerehants could draW The depreciation in . the year ISIO could Out he less th•tit fruit 20 to 25 per cent. - FOPIIES stated, that at . Bombay the loss on :Leary wa ; from 7 to 10 per tent. Mr. WYNNE wished to know why such a large sum as 1,7041- was elcar g ed for inessengtwi,watch men,. and porters at the Navy Office ,1 Some of 'Nese messengers, he csnderstootl, met:iv:a salaries fts big4i as -2501. contrary to the it:commendation of the Commistdoners, .who - advised that no such -persons should receive more than 1201. to 14W. year. lto was sure there was no messenger in his'iirrice %%Aro ha►l more than 1201. Mr, CliOK E a the head Messengers of the ►alty.hn►l a great deal of •respoßsibility, and it c►iuld out be considered that they were too I►iihly raid. wished fur seine farther expja tatiPu ti4oo titt Hight lion. Secretary; respect, In): tile, rate of Fix change. It• wits !bowl iuos dial ISI . O• it Willi 14441111 it this eottiktry all over thc world, anti lie Called On. to show, how it indd by a l ly pos a ihility be in.fivotir of the Navy. the-Right.tion. Sepretary Meill) to pledge his cciin,ry no chit;. SliitClllCtlt, niul did. be wish t 9 be tried by this•criterion ? Mr. 11Amgk:ast..Er was in the 111editerrunean in 1810, anal: he could theloss was from 13 (0 23 'per cent.' Toe Naval Oilieeis gcnwally xooylatned of it.' Mr. Caor.r.tt thought he bad stated distinctly, that at nalta and Gibraltar the loss was great. The paper he had referred to had not . been pre. pared for this evening's debate, hot when the suhjeet , Web 'before the „11011,e in 1811. --There was a note at the end of a, which *tined tvhict he b a d asserted, 04 the course of 3 , ,xchange wits nearly tit nAr in moo phices awl only ogstiel4t the Oliiem sof Gibtaltar,,ilalifax,uud Anitigna. S. y4)11.1401 defended the observations of Mr. C.:it:Ll, win), he observed, had tamed no thing • tram lis own knowledge. In 1810 there was it very large licet, nut less than thirty ships '}it the line, anti though the state of affairs was not lallourible, the rate 'of excha6ge did nut amount 40 ft cirawiwk. Ira etisircilt) .D r. flaring, Mr. COOKER said; thc persont..who drew paid at the rate of about' 68 pence for she doilar. Mr.,14a14,Q. _bah! ,the tlollKr nt thr4 time cost abmit,s4.pencc,, so that the difference was be tween 54 mid .G 7, or about 2;iper cent agaiust the uthcer The c..IIAkCIiLLOII of the ExciicQuziivislied to call lbc.'attelition of the Committee to the lulu cliele of prying hi thii Noy. Nagy trakfront. 'bre :noirciuuri A l.receiveil their pay tit 17 !J:i Ihe o fij e erg;l,vere.allOyVed to draw their pay 0, 1 ti4(ign stutions, by which they were subject to 41 " 1 1'. 3'1 1 1)eil the e3diapge, %VAS in our ta vo ur , t avid) I, , : ; o ici 1,, iiie:Aritiy, the public derived 'the 411 . v941 . 41 gv , .atid.11ikt Abe otlieets. lle would HOE kiiter ictito the .question, wilvtlier,it would be de aiti4l46 to 4 089i0iilate.the l lifierenet .between the t 3 ""tlicevir ~ACitte) that n 4 prefe. 1 , t-uce was giVell 10 one over the other , b e y ond ‘ YLtvt. was heecz4ar 3 / 4 1 - . - Tlic' • cPuNcrgation continuedfor sortie time, in 11,L, • „:,.coiirse, of which Mr, CuoKsa said , t o afford 4e ' 1 ' 1°44 . 4 bittifaCli44l, I,C would /11011 e ,for 11C' oy the Ofßeers tit* the Navy for a .erieS of year'i.• Mr. LYrrt.rroN bore ttatimony to the lost of the officers in the Mediterranean beittg 25 per cent : he was glad to hear of the Iti•,,tht Secretary's intention, as the returns would enable the subject to he fairly discussed. Mr. J. P. dRANT was of the same opinion. Mr. Ilmutast knew the exchaugn wit's greatly Against this country at Afalta in 1810 : be knew that the Officers' bills were at a considerable.tits , count. Sir ,J. P. ligaizsrottp said, this country lot o d p'aid a great deal Ey disconut. Formerly, but not of late years, he had had his I3iCIY all favour ably received---(A laugh) ; and he ,had no doubt the time would come agaio, though it might be long first---(Loud laughing.) lie never remem bered a seaman to have expressed a swish to be . paid abroad; they were satisfied with the temit tanctli being sent-to their relations, their mothers, sist.l's, wives, or whatever they had--(Laughter.). To 'be paid abroad would make thent dissatisfied ; they dirt. not call for it. He deprecated .the rea diness young Qtlteers showed to get up in that House, and make statements about the Navy, creating dissentiOns, wit bout ha6tig consulted With those of more experience 011 stichstihjeet3. Captain PuLt.r.w, as the allusion to young officers, and creating dissensions, were evidently . levelled at him, deemed it his duly to revel them. —(Hear, hoar, hear !)—He hail trotiiing iii 'view but to benetiL the service ;. so far from nut having_ consulted with olii ers of more experience than himself, he lead taken tile opinions of malty, with the exception of the gallant Admiral, to %Omni he had out spoken before. Sir J. N. liatimizotto thought the gallant Cap— t ilia • had forgot! en himself. Ile had s pokeo to him on the subject, when he (Sir J,) asked him whom he bad consulted, and he answered, " Upon -thy honour, nobody." He (SirJ,) the n t o ld him that he was proposib i 4 to brio;; a thing hit° the House, which \vould receive the eetistrre of it flout one end to the other. The advice he had given him was, that the best way to benefit the service, would be to go quietly to the Admiralty, and argue the case wt,tb thew.--(Loud bursts of laughter) r , Carditi PELLPAr must totally disci•iitu wally parts of the conversation alluded to—(Ltughtce, und hear, hear !)—lt was not the ease thin he had Said no, when naked if he lied taken the opinion of other thlicers. Admiral.MAnKnAst censured the. opinion that young (Veers ought not to bring these things forward ; though he was not inclined to eater as warmly as the willant Captain had done into the subject of pay.. lie was not, a yo►►ng Officer him self, having been 42 years in the service ; but he did consider the remark of young Ogieers to be sometimes very unwise---[•l'he Italrant 'Atli:14111 proceeding when loud eriei of order arose, alld appeals were made to.the Chair.] • After some brief observation.: from Messrs. Stuart Wortley, Forlles, General Ferguson, Lit tleton, Finlay, and Lord Castlereagh,: (who stated the difference between the Army and itlavy•to be, that the arn►y never acted abroad withont a, Paymaster at his head, while neither ships nor fleets ever had a Pavmasier), the O i ttei 7 tiou was ;nit on the Original Rtiolution i for the sun► of 43,864/. I2s. 6th for defraying the sala ries and contingencies-of-the Navy Pay OftLe, fol. l Sl6. MAtertwlinped the CO7IIIIIMOC would n 1). stain from voting the whole of this loon, till the papers Ypecifying . .the . eOntingenci. s were laid bt!. tort the Pot:se. should tilvrefore move as att amendment, that the grant be 70001: lesis the sum btatC4l, being ihe amonut of the iencies. ()it this the Committee divided, when there were— . F.,r the Amenihnint Against it . ' 153 . , . Ithjorit y -96 . On u grant of 49,195/.38.4d. being moved for, the salaries of the Officers, end the - expenses of the Victualling Office, • A convertatitm of 'some length arose on the soiled of the office of the Regiwar of Millie Se curities, in which Mr, Baring, Sir G. WarrCnikr, Mr. Rost, and Air. Crolter participated. The three gentlemen last nientioned, contended the individual with‘vhom it 'rested to look into the public securities, had a great deal of business ita his Bands, and Was not Over-paid for his dot y. It was not uncommon for him to ..laVe to ;vnquil e into the Validity of the si:currtlei of 400 or 0 persons. _ _ . Mr.l3,vntxo - replied, it wonlit be found on look ing more into thecsse, that . itiAtea 1 i,t 4{lO, he had rug 40 securities upon the . 4tvcrogc to hives- NeWPORT hoped the:scenritics were fillets better care ut nu‘i , th.iii they were fOrtnerly in the case of the Receiver tienc:•al. 'lt had some !sears ago come ourfthat several Niembeei 'of i hat I-louse were improperly toocertied iri the contracts which were wished to know it the Luc Con tracts had been made in conformity. with the Act which had passed concerning them. •„ Mr. CROKER hoped, with the Right 11011. 114". Toilet, that thelecurities were, tnhen -better care 91 than they had beeit in the instance to which he luttl referred. With respect to the contracts, he did not know whether:they litl.euntained the clause enjoined by the Act or not,• Its this did not come within his department, He would endea-! vene to inform himself on the subject, and let the Right Hon. Baronet know. the ,result of his in quiry. . The Resolution was then agreed to. ()it the- sum of. 3f1,86 . 91; 'being moved, for the Salaries of rite Offieers,,Stc. of his Majesty's yards of Deptford and Woolwich, Mr; TIEM:EY objected to the offices of Com- missioner to those Yolk being kept un. tic Con sidered him to cost the . country not less than 30001. per annum, .but supposing thii to be out of the question, he would ask if there now- be any occasion to keep up a Commissioner at even an cspence of 200,0 t. a Yc.4r. 6ir G. Watittgiintsit' stateda Commissioner *to these Yards to have been, first appniiited in 1806. Stich an olfwer was found to cause a great saving to t h e pu bli c , and he believed there wits 'little ditircuce of qinioti tuuct4 naval t eu .uu the b)tireq - of {itch %wire xi vie tivrirOsit ell, A ter 4 ivw rvhiarAs tru•►i Miffing. 'LtIC-stAH Mid Nit. CaoKL::, the shiotiou %v 43 t e ,teed to. Th e folitokil% gr.ugs were then mover! and rtl..fred to . Fur On; Salaries of Oaken of Chatham D..cli-yard ,C 35,000 Ditto of Sheerness Ditto of Portinimith Ditto of Plymouth 42 ;:0 13 00 2 Ditto of the Out-Ports Ditto of the Foreign Yards Un the . Note heing proposed of - 1;112;960.1. 73. 6d. for victualling the Officers and Alen cniployud on Ilarbu(ir y, Mr. BAttiNG called the attention of the Com mittee particularly to this item, ull ,t hick a de. crease of ATI ; 0001 . rather titan an increase to that amount, might Wive been exttected. This grant with for victualling . the officers and men ivho'had the c harge of the ships laid tip in ordinary: The men th us omplilcd, were maintained in 1813, 181-1, and 1815, at no expenee of one shitlinfr• per dims, When .things (rad become su mucrt cheaper, why was the country to be called upon to pay at the rate of Is. Gd, per matt ?. The charge waS stow 132,9001. 7s. ‘6d. it totQa to have been not iiiurc titan 90,0501. Why was the COurity' to pay the dtErenee between a shilling and eighteen pence over what it had paid in the last three 'years .1:le knew it might easily be said, thatl the Estimates of those years had tallen short ; but it this argument were ninde use of, whlt s:midd they think of those who had framed those esti:woes, and nit sooner discovered thei r cm dry ? 7 he some manlier, the ohowatoee for tlic ins.n in the service of the Covonts h:o1 heeo by an order dated'Augobt 13,h, 1813, froto one shilling and tivepeuee to one anti teupenee.— This incre a sed Simi had been paid to the Contrac tor for these oleo who was also their Cootooioder, lie thought the Cootractor aod Alit! COMMander ought never to be the same person, and he hoped t h e 11 0 , 15 e w t , a ld not give its Spielioll . to slick .1111 arrmogetoeilt, as it gave the Cummancle - r an inte rest in the absence of his men, and tended to make him wily studious how to get them to take leave of , absence. Mr. CaottErt raid the Estimates ball fallen short ever since Idwi, (MCI the lion. tientleantu migta; . therefore, be able to learn how this error had first - occurred . , •by consulting his Right !You. Friend. From 1739 to 1798, the sum paid for victualling the men had been the saute. lire the last mullioned year, Mr. Pitt raised it from Sd. to Is. per diem for each seaman, and to one shilling each in.oi employed in harbour. In 'I i 306 the sum allov.c.l For the sea-going men wati found insufficient, Anil it was raised to two and' three halfpence . per man. The . allo•aiiitee "for victualling the harbour men - Was nOt tin in . .. creme. This was doubtless au oversight, and it ‘‘•as not one that could be at tome detected, as the sictualling of 3000 'harhntsr-men, thin; imperfectly pi ovisled for, was not an item that allowed much notice while the , war wits go ing Oa, and the number of skips laid. up in ordi nary was so small. Now that the number _ of the ordinary men bad greatly increased, and , that of the sea- goolg men were diminished in proportion, the mistake could no longer - escape observation. The- Atithir*lty liudiAhcrefore, sate thi, occasion, corrected the Listidoor`i, And bad. now Only -done that which ought to have Lice,, done in 1806. Mr. FtdREJMANTLR said the explanation of the' Honourabte secretary wits perfectly still-slat:tory, hut lie thought it would helve. been better had it • been giVeti before. Mr. CaoKe2 reminded the lion. Member, that, on it former 'occasion, when th e surest lots es at brought forward, the Speaker Was rte tl.e chair; he (Mr. C.) had spoken once, and he then ass (1, if they would allow the Estimates to -go into tut': Committee he should be Trvpared to afford every explanation. Mr. lisaisto said, he: Was willing .to admit that the explotition of the Ilononrahle . Sceretary was a satiSfactory one ; but still he thought the man ner. in' which the matter was. managed .waS . a slovenly one. Aft ei tome furtherobservationS front Mr. Croker, Mr. Baring. Sir G. liope,Sir J. Newport, and Sir J.' Yo . rke, the irestion was carried. Untm the item, that 1,170.8 , 111: rs.' 6d. be 'panted to hilts najestv fur llalf-pay, Superannna tions, Allowances, Pensions; &c. is cimveriatiyu ints - -ited between Admiral Mai ktnim Mr. Croker, and Sr G.: respe'cting the diffet ekes' of die two services, Admiral Mat kit nit contending that the Navy was' an oppressed service -compared to ihe•Artny, with respect - to the systent of half-ply; allavrahre s , &e. TIER N Y earnestly hored . the - AdmiTalty would makt: sOnie rxertinns to place tile Navy on the same respeetahlc tontine as the Army. Mr, FoitaLs, was of opinilin that aliidavits should be abolished as improper and liiiiiCcessary, Sir U. WA RgENIMit , teprt.TMOrt lit AC11 1 41) of as. g• two classes so totally (WI - crew front each other as the aritiy and navy wetc, mid he stated that last year I,i 26 midshipmen had been promoted ley Lord! Melville tt the rank of Lieu tenants . without any interelt being made for them. Mr. 3. P. GliaolT wis hed to know bow 71 per Ceiit; Wti9 l'tanned ow oI tlie pensions nt I:Naent Officers for the Ci..il Mr. Can Kan rildied, "the Lords of the Atinti. ralty doubting the propriety of so Ow nutter to the. consideration of the , Crown Liw Officers, whose report should he soon' laid before the Muse. It long conversation took . place between Air., Croket, Mr. 131aclitoi'd. and Mr. Votbei, the last of whom chariv.ed the Lorili of the Aihntralty, - anil eren•the 4scrctary, , with refusing access to naval offices, who 'niht ',What to see th em . 'DIN Was positively tleiliett.by the 3 , c:retail, by Mr. BLit:ll.- 16rd, Sir 0. IVarrentler, anti other Alettibers, wha tlepricatett the anxiety Mr. Foibes sliewed to• trouble the }louse wit bevery imaginary grievance, which be heard, anti whick was principally founded. on noonyntons letters. Tile Item) tion %vos then egiee(l to; as were the Iteinktions telative to the Sttiterttiontottiolls,' the Iroiltititg •Iteitaiting Ships-of SVar,, tha: Trtiusport Otlicc, the '.'ratty; arc Service, the Sick, • • 1 - 113(mot 11 , 01 War, nn, Cie C terks 'of the Tritnslotrt The ilottye tikell rt - Nst:nef.l, tv)ti.itic-.lteport was ordered to be brot.mitt tip this clay. Mr...llaoooPti- brought ~p the Report of the Committee of Supply of Friday last, the &Li:solu tions of which were agreed to. l'he other Orders of the Day were then. dit posed of, and at II:Of-past Two o'Clueis this Morning the House od.Fintned.. I FRENCH PAPERS. ERECHIVED LAST NIGHT . 3 CtIANIBEa OF DEPUTIES, hr.►rcii The ►iiscussions on the details of ti►e Budget were resumed. Sc+•eral Members spoke. Some of the articles is proposed were agreed to, and others anirendle►!, but nu final decision took place. And the chrther consi►leration of the subjcLt was adjourned till to-morrow. Rum MAtten, 29.—The King still remains in his •apartments. The proceedings beforp the Council of War of the first military Division, are preparing against Almeshal de Camp Wpm!, accused ot baying carried on a correspondence with the Isle ot 1411 hi. Lady Wil,ou arrived at t'arislesterclay morn ing. A Journal was ill informed : in announcing that Messrs. IVilson,, Bruce and .llntehinson had been trati4erred to the Coneiergerie. They are still at La Force. Their trial will conic on iu thu last fortnight in April. • The following are the names of the individual s comprised in the act of Accusation relltive to the escape of Lavalette Jean 134ptiste, Roquette de lierguisec Keeper of the Mai sou de Justice, Jaques Eberle, Turnkey, Benoit Bonneville Thenrstie of Matt:tune LavaWtte, and Joseph Marengas, one of 'the Chairmen of the chair in which Lavalettc 'went ord of this Court., of t he Conciergerie. The seßtenee 'of depth on General Trai-nt is commuted t) SO years imprisonment. The Projet respecting the marriage estabiibhs meat of the Duke de I*.ot.rry, with the amend ments of the Chamber of Deputies, wits ttgreed to yesterday unanimously by the Chamber of Peers. :The commemoration of the assassination ,of the Duke of Eughietti awakening till, recollections., there is a pleasure in recalling to mind the, anec dote of the spaniel which followed hint from .Ltteinheim, and whiA.:exery day, after the death of tai: master, went and lay down on his grave:: the Governor of liars!, it is said, ordered him to be chained : he at last. to his barber, after having. refused biro ton respectable mother of a family, who,wished to attach thiS faithful friend of the Prince. They write, from Saint-Pol, that the Officer commanding the English troops in that town bat put under arrest two soldiers of that nation, acs cuscd of having attacked in the roAci an inhabit taut of the Commune of Ilernicourt. FRENCH FUNPS. 6 per (.nits.. 5,f. 40.. ~kR~BINBtI Tull MCIitNING,) RlS,MAlto}l29.—Tlie Princess Muria Caroline, wholi to:be united to the Dike of lierry, is 60 issue of the first marriage of his Royal Highness the hereditin'y Prince of Naples with Maria CU.' mein ine,4aughter of the Emperor Leopold. The Doke of ,klavre will receive at the frontiers the Prin , ..ess Marie Caroline. - • The Lx-Gencral Mouton Duvernet, arrised,4 Lyons the 23d., and %vas conducted to. the prison of Rouine. The horse gindir of Lyons went to ii nnthri~oti to ivbitth pl Y ,cc,he hint been some days dejained4at the Prefecture. ha the Court of Assizes ut Paris, Ltickon and Gogitet were condemned to death, for the murder of!Hubert ()inky. The young wontau implicated; of the name of May, was acquitted. It'appeared on the trial that the pees Ons sCuteneed to deck i . ormed part at' a band of robbers, some ot,wnotit were sieented last SCS8:0113. The French Acalleply held its first sitting' yes. terdiiy. Its first business was the forniation of the Bureau. The Doke of Richileti has beet, no- Mitiated Presittent, and M. de Vontaines Vice. President, The.Getieral Asseilibly of the Itt.ti. tute Will be on the•24th of April. The trial for nullity.of Marriage between Count de Vainly and his Wife Will comtnence next `Fri day. The pleadings in this case will bring to light some curious details. Today at two o'clock, the wain-boat entered Patis. The quays and barges were covered wilt; people. It passed tinder one of the arthesof the Bridge of 'Louis XVI. without any obstacle, crossed the basin at the Garden of.. the Toileries, and passed the Castle amid shouts of " %Nye le' Rid ! About balf an hour after its 'arrival the Duke of Angouleme went on 'boa, d. A man named Eemonds, connuit:ed frrint Queen square Office, about three week 4 1,14e1 , 4, tor rk cApital offence, cut his throat in Tothilfields licidewell, yesterday triorniug, with the rai.Qt he toed in s4aviag