The Sun. — London, England, 1841-02-25 00:00:00

■ EVENING ED ETION. SPORTING INTELLIGENCE. MANCHESTER, TUESDAY EVENINO.—Tbere was a vary flattering attendance this forenoon, and some engage• menu were made, after a pretty c anside , rable degree of fatigue to the tongue. There was a little inquiry aftet. the outsider Kingsbridge ; 500 to 10 za3 freely offered, with takers of 1,000 to 12. The odds vere thus -8 to 1 agst Mr. Rilsdal&s Bloomsbury—offered 1000 to 100 ag t Col. Peel's Gibraltar—taken then offered 12 to 1 apt Ccl. Cradoek's Gallipot—offered 100 to 6 agst Mr. Orde's Queen Bee—freely taken 100 to 6 agst Lord Nliltown't Cruiikeen—taken 20 t) 1 100 to 6 agst Mr. Pcinte,'s Ernest the First—taken 500 to 23 agst Mr. Hornby's Champagne—taken 100 to 3 apt Mr. Mastyn's Trustee—taken 70 to 20 the field v. two—offered freely TIIE DERBY.-100 to 8 was at the very elate accepted on Rosalie; 17 to 1, bar oneaoffered); 23 to 1 v. Sault (takers); 1,000 to 12 v. Knutabridge (offered) ; 18 to 1 v. Knight of the Whistle (offd.); also 20 to 1 in ponies. THE LIVERPOOL, CR GREAT WATERLOO CUP.—(Tues day next.)-100 to 8 offered on the field : the celebrated fo..eyhound Waterloo having "the call ;" 100 to 6 offered any nomination for the great coursing event. 7 to 2 offered on tho field for the Steeple Chase. THE LOSS OF THE GOVERNOR FENNER. FURTHER PARTICULARS. We arc informed that it is admitted there was not any light on board the Governor Fenner ' and that the people beard cf her saw the lights of the Nottingham f om fif 2en' to t 'verity minutes before the collision took place, and that if the sailing vessel had shown a light, it might , have been prevented, as only about a minute and a htlf Aspseti between the steamer seeing the sailing vessel and the latter running against her. The steamer Birmingham, which sailed from this port for Dublin, fell in with the wreck of a large ship at seven o'clock on Sunday morning, about sixteen miles to the westwood of the Skerrie.s. The ship was apparently split in two, her stern being g one, and the cargo all out of len The wreck was boarded by part of the crew of the Birmingham, who found two men dead in the rigging. They also took from the wreck a trunk containing a quan 4ty of watches and other articles. There can scarcely be a doubt but that this was the wreck of the ill-fated vessel Governor Fencer, and that after she went down she had parted, the cargo having wank, the hull had again floated. We saw Captain Andrews yesterday, and he denies this in tote. lie also informed us that the mate denied having made any such statement. According to Captain An,lrews, the steamer's light was seen only a few minutes LeFore the collision occurred. The solicitors of the City of Dublin Company yesterday transmitted the following letter to Captain Andrews:— " Exchange-elle:, Feb. 22, 1841. " Sir, —We lose no time in apprising you, as the Master of the late unfortunate American chip, Governor Fenner,' that the City of Dublin Steam-packet Conapany,the proprie tors of the Nottingham steamer, which, as we are instructed, by default of the crew of the ship, came irito collision with tee !atter early on Saturday morning last ; that the Company hald the owners of the ship acc o u n tabe to them for the N e y heavy loss they have sustai .ed by the damage of the steamer, and we bay,: to request that you will be so good as to furnish 113 with the names and residences cf such owner?. We are, Sir, your obedient servants, "NORTH and ORRED." " Captain Andrews, Grecian Hotel." The following reply was immetliately sem by Captain Andrews : '(COPY Liverpool, Feb. 23, 1841. " Messrs. North and Orred, " Gentlemen—l herewith acknowledge the re-eLipt of a letter addressed from you to me, and request, that in my pre scut dilemma, you will not pester ma with any more such ri diculous nonsense, aq, no doubt, the public in g, nerd, as well as myself, will perfectly understand your object, but I have a few words to say in reply. Had you had a sharp look-out aboard your steamer, the Governor Fenner' would hove been seen in due time ; had you hal a compaent person in charge of tie steamer's deck, when they did see the Governo: Fenner,' common senac, with but a small share of judgment and presence of mind, would hese prompted him to r ut hie helm sport, end go to wind7ari. In the next place, I refer you to Cep*. Steward, of the Notti gbam, who acknowledged, in presence cf r itnesses, that Le considered me exempt from any blame; and lastly, had the Nottingham abided by the rule passed at a meeting of the different Steam Packet Companie', es I did, at which treeing Samuel Perry, Esq., was in the chair, and Charles Iver, Secretary (laying judgment aside), she woted ilot have cone in eoll4i )n with the Governor 7.7: aner.' And, Gentlemen, as I have resolved every • Client corir e.t.;cl izh that awful catastrophe shall e the greate t publicity, I shall publish your letter, as week as a copy el this, and refuse to receive any private ceettnurications from pry parties concerned, and no doubt the underwriters of both ship and cargo will hold you re vponeible.— Your obedient rervae., Siga,l) "S. C. ANDREWS, Master of the late erfertunate s1)i? GLvrrnor Fenner, ,:euk by the City of DuLli S cam Packet Company's amer Nuttirgham, off ilulyhead." SPIRIT of the PUBLIC JOURNALS FROM Tilt RVENING PAPERS P YrSTERDAY (From the Standard.) The adjourned debate on Lord Mnrreth's Irish Ile. ris t , ation Bill was resumed Ist evening by Mr. Young is possill', but hardly probable, that it will tnquicate tp-right. An ordicary Ministerial majority in favour of the Bill would, however, net secure the adoption of that feature which constitutes, in fact, its real principle, the W. clause ; a:though, if the division b! cg,iinst Ministers, the extinction of the Bill in all its parts is certain. No one is more entire y aware than Lord Morpeth himself that the 51. franchise clause cannot scnibly b 3 carried. It will, however, have served the turn -- of the Government wit Irish and English mobs, as a manifesto of their liberality ; and having accomplished the objet of an electioneering dap-trap, vvill be as quietly abandoned as was the appropriation tack to their Irish Tithe Bill. But the Irish people are, we are told, fa vourable to the proposed measure, wad as a proof that they a-e, Lord Morpeth presented last night a peCtion from Ireland, professing to be signed by 200,000 per sons in Its favour. If universal suffrage be held out as a probability (and there is no sa3inss what measure may next claim the support of Government, should Lord Morpe'h's 13111 be entertained), we have no doubt that petitions much more numerously signed will pour in upon the House in favour of that measure. But petitions from Ireland in behalf of a Bill in which the lowest classes are almost as directly interested, ore of such easy manufacture, that Mr. O'Con nell has only to issue the order and the thing is immediately accomplished. We should like to compare the respectability and intelligence of the 4x!,000 inhabitants of Ulster, who signed the Petition presented last night by Sir Rob:rt Bateson, with the one professing to contain more than double the number of names, which was laid upon tans table of the House with so much parade by Lord Morpetls ; end having winnowed the chaff from the grain, to show bich is entitled to the gravest consideration. (From the Globe.) Whether Ireland shall possess an electoral franchise worthy to be designated " popular," or, the voter he fettered by restrictions, and driven from court to court by ingeniously devised objections, unfl he resigns in despair what he cannot att sin without difficulty or ex ercise without danger—this question was again the subject of discussion in the House of Commons last Light, when the debate on Lord Morpeth's Bill as resumed. This is the re a l question in issue. It mayvi ho tortured by ingenuity, and glossed over by sophistry the t'worse may be mad e t o appear the better reason " by the employment of arts which dishonesty cultivates for the attainment of its ends ; but, divested of their xtraneous parts, and resolved into the simple ele ments on which their potency for good or evil e;fentially depend, the two measures now before Parliament, (the adoption of the one involving , ho rejection of the other, present the alterna- Ivo we have stated. Thb one . secures to th e honest voter the exercise of electoral rights based on a clearly-defined franchise, while it guards that franchise from invasion by those who endeaaourci titre ; the other to acquire ap he ri- r viloge to which they have no valid loaves the franchise undefined, and the voter to the chances of whether the Judge to whom lie a ppeals the ever-varying decision of Assistant Barris te rs, againstbe cue of the majority or minority of the Bench . ,. l : l the Judges themselves being nearly equally divided i evinion as to the construction of the franch i se in a vast amber of instances. In addition to this disreputable state cf the law, which produces painful uncertainty and inflicts nensive injury on the voter who appeals to the Judge, the Bill of Lord Stanley surrounds the voter with increased difficulties in the earliest stages of his progress to the regis try ; and, under the pretence of placing obstructieiss in the path of the corrupt claimant, perplexes the man whose qualification is valid by the number of preliminary proofs--.harrasses him with personal attendances to remove quibbling objections taken by the agents of political opponents---and subjects him to heavy costs if, by the omission of any one of the numerous legal proofs which the Bill of Lord Stanley requites him to adduce, be fails to substantiate the claim he has honestly put in to be admitted as to the registry. With a clearness of perception and felicity of expression which render his speech one of the most valuable which has been deli vered during the discussion, Mr. Macaulay last night defined the distinguishing feature of the rival measures ; exhibiting the deformity and insidious purpose of the one, and placing in strong contrast to its odious and re pulsive character, the just principle and efficient ma ehinery of the other. REPRESENTATION OF MA NC El ESTEB.—We understand that the Maneheiter Tories are making the most active preparations for contesting the r2presentation of this horougb, in case o f en ear l y di sso l u tion °f Par liament. Encou r a ge d b y w h at t h ey cons id e r a division amongst the Lib era l party, they talk of b r i ng i ng for ward two eta.ndidates, namely, Sir George Murray aid Richard Erkwisl., Esq. (the son-in-law of Edward Loyd, Esq.) We hope, however, that the Reformers will selves to be weakened by divisions, nor t eic Mue o ruined by supineness and indifference. Witia proper - 00rAions they can certainly defeat their op ponents, whet*lslith one candidate or two,—Manchester Guardian. ?-,:: i 1 -ef knot ~J RAILWAY NOTICES. SHEFFIELD AND ROTIMRHATiI RAILWAY,--U,) to the 31st December last, 1,008,500 passengers bad been conveyed along this Inc , since its opening, withou' one accident, except a man (not a passenger) wh was erassing the rails at a place where he had no b . inuss to cross ; and who, being deaf, did not hear the c gire• man's whistle. MARYPORT AND CARLISLE RAILWAY.—An addi tional mile of this railway is expected to be opened in April, leading to the town of Aspatria, which will make 81 miles opened. The present traffic consists princi pally of coal ; and, owing to the opening of new colleries, it is steadily increasing. As soon as the portion through the coal fields is completed, a junction will be made with the Newcastle and Carlisle Railway, from Carlisle to Wigton, eleven miles.—Whitchaven Herald. PROJECTED RAILROAD THROUGH BURNLEY, BLACK BURN, &c.—A deputation from the temporary Commit tee, appointed at the meeting in this town, had an interview, by appointment, with so me of the principal inhabitants of Burnley and the neighbourhood, at the Bull Inn in that town, on Friday last, to confer on the subjnt of the intended railroad. The chair was taken by J. R. Walton, Esq., of Marsden Hall.—Mr. Burke, the surveyor, exhibited to the meeting the draft of his plans for the whole line, which gave great satisfaction. He also, at the request of the meeting, explained very fully his views as to the practicability of the railway, and the probable cost , which, he thought, would be within 20,000/. per mile, including locomotive engines, carriages, &c.—An interesting discussion subsequently took place with respect to the probable traffic, &c.—A Committee was appointed to raise subscriptions for the survey, and the meeting separated, after passing a vote of thanks to the Chairman.—Bleekburn Gazelle. Bax-TUNNEL.—This stupendous work, by far the greatest of its kind in this or any other country, is fast approaching completion, less than forty yards in length now remain to be excavated, and there is every probability that the entire work will be finished within a month or six weeks. The length of the tunnel is 3,128 yards, or 48 yards more than 11 miles. The width is 30 feet, and the height from the line of rails to the crown of the arch varies, according to the nature of the ground excavated, from 25 to nearly 40 • feat. The total amount excavated cannot amount to less than 450,000 cubic yards. The work being un -1 avoidable in this locality, we cordially congratulate the Company on its successful progress and near approach to completion. It is unquestionably the boldest and greatest specimen of tunneling which the enterprise of our monied and scicatifie men has yet produced.— Railway Magazine. A FOUL CRIME. ( prom the Gazette des Tribunaux.) Cries of " Stop thief, Stop thief," resounded a few days since through the market-place, upon which a municipal guard rushed bravely into the midst of the female group and discovered the accuser and the delin quent, both ornaments of the fair sex, and both strug gling with most unfeminine grace. A hundred female tongues were forthwith let loose upon the municipal guard, each giving a different version to the affair, until at length that important functionary, retroussant his mouitache, exclaimed with emphatic importance, " Si lence, women—one at a time, let the accuser and the accused stand forth, and justice shall take her course. The law throws its protecting aegis alike over the weak and the strong, and you find that I shall impartially administer the authority delegated to me by my Sove reign." This spirited address produced the desired effect. A marchande de volaille came forth from the crowd, holding firmly in her grasp an aged spinster, whom she accused of halving unlawfully appropriated to herself one of those volatile bipeds which are known to tlee s ulgar by the name of capons. The aged deliiignent, who had basked in the sun shine of sixty-five ammers, indignantly repelled the cherge, and resolutely declared that slasswould not sub tto be searched but the character iand temper of the fair accusing paulterer were ,not of that gentle neture that can tame'y brook a denial. She accord ingly- commenced' searching the aged delinquent ; but all Ler endeavours - to find the missing capon were for a long time ineffectual. The Municipal Guard, how ever, in whom the stern love of justice was sweetly Ll aide] with that of the fair sax, expressed great ad miration for the contour of the sexageaariau's bust, and suggested that the accusing poulterer should in spect those beauties also ; when lo ! with shame and horror do we write it, from out the corset which inca c this lovely form eppeared the accusing talons of the sub tracted fowl, and the bird's body was at length triumph antly dragged into day, and the eleiicqueat, who still protested her innocence, was dragged to durance vile. On being brought before the Commissioner, she de termined upon withdrawing her plea of " Not Guilty," and pleaded in her defence that she was enceinte, and suddenly felt a longing for the fowl, which was irre sibtAle. " why you " Enceinte," exclaimed the Nagistnte, must he upwards of sixty." " (due voulez vous," replied the sexagenarian spinster, "- oaf - ail. des solliscs a tout age." In spite of this touching appeal she was led off to ex piate her faux pas in prisnn. STATE OF TRADE. (From the Jilanchester Guardian.) MANCHESTER. —There was a tolerably firm and steady maiLt yesterday both for goods and yarn; and in some eases prices w 4 re given which could not be obtained last v eel{, especially in yarn. Still the market ex hibited nothing of the activity which is usual at this sea son of the yet*, and which was fully expected on the re turn cf m;11 and seasonable weL titer. RocticALE FLANNEL MAItEF,T, MONDAY, FEB. 22. The flannel market tc-day has been more than usually dull ; few buyers have attended, and those few have pur chased very sparingly : the. prices remain the same as they have been fur these few weeks past. In the vio:1 rn!tke . , there has been hut little doing, but prices re ma'n firm. HUDDERSFIELD MARKET, FEB. 23. Our market to-eay has again presented a lively and animated ap p: arance, and a considerable quantity of goods has charged hands. The demand was principa'ly for the miduling and lower qualities of both 'loin and fancy xcoll ro, and all new patterns were entirely bought up. Stocks rem: in comparatively low, the operatives are more fully employed, and the grand desideratum cf an imi rovement in prices begins to he ix.vially real:zed. The warehouses, whose trade is not dependent upon the market-days, arc also more actively engaged, especially in the foregoing department ; vast quanta:coot goods hi.ve lately been sent off, and the packers arc now actively em pl.,yed. The wool market was an average ore, and prices retrai firm. NOBLE EXAMPLE.—Tuesday the 16th, the large: portion of the creditors of the late Sir T. S. Mostyn Champneys, resident in Frome and neighbour hood, and whose claims have arisen since 1835, were paid in full by the munificence of the Lady Mostyn Cbarnpneys, relict of the deceased Baronet. The sum pid on that day was in addition to a larger SUM lately paid in London to creditors having claims equally re cent, and also to about 20,C00 guineas paid recently by her to the assignees of the creditors under the schedule of 1335. What further debts contracted by the B wonet since 1835 still remain unliquidated will be discharged by her in the course of the ensuing month. The whole sum thus paid by her Ladyship will amount to about 30,0001. When it is considered that this large sum, the raising of which involved a great sacrifi:e of property on her part, has been paid by this I idy to those who had no legal claim on her, it must appear to be an instance of noble munificence, and of high principle, such as is seldom wit nessed.—Derizes Gazette. The Rev. T. Dale, M.A., late Professor of English Literature and Modern History in King's Ccl lege, London, has been presented with a silver waiter by the students who formed his class. FETE AT NAPLES.—Extract of a letter from Naples, sth instant :—" Yesterday the Marquis and Ma. o.iionoss of Sligo opened their splendid palace with a ball, to celebrate the coming of age of t car eldest son, the Earl cf Altamont. The hall-room, which is of a great size, and the rest of the spacious apartments, were brilliantly li4hted. Tho Kirg and Queen arrived at a little before nine, fillowed by th, it Royal Highnesses the Prince and Princess of Sa lome, and their daughter, the Count of Syracuse, and the Infante of Spain, Don Sebastian. Dancing commenced I N ie i n aje t s la t e i'' K s 'in a g na 's csounptpienruewdaswainlli soon after the arrival'bf their w b i t r:vited L o rd an d L ady Sligo, and gnroeuantes!di.rit u ri n i t s il .A ni. a i j d e n s i t g y 11r. Temple, the British Minister, to accompany the Royal Family to their supper-room. While the Royal party were thus employed, the larg a e n s d up a p s cr ie r n o d o i m d wasopenedtu the re mainder of the gueits, p companyflocked to the supper-room till discovered. The royal I l e the ndi d ,Ifieotuesse thatby nearly three 0 1: c i l l o c e k , t o partake arty w i o th f d t r h e e w d e a l t i ': h a a c l i f e - s p a st provided two, for them.company p four. Thus Upwards of 500 time in Naples. and the rest of te has been given for somei h f ad th a e ll m most t s te p persons were present at t. rtmheinated one o se which a very large mode of travelling involve s an expenen„unter, and which, E XPE NSE 01? POST ING IN, ENGLAND.—This number of invalid's would rather madenut f or everything at the Spas, raises the tovil amount with the much higher charg: , s ot. expenditure for the one singlo object of trying mineral the majority o f p er high for, or beyond the reaca of,wateerst as a means of cure , in the having- for some weeks sojourned, any one, a ft er ~ sons requiring such a mode of treatment. It, for instance, de , i:cd to character of a quiet bachelor at St. Leonard's, for the sake of sea-bathing and excellent house-room, rur ' b id , try the effect of the vaunted steel-water of '_ r 'Tunbridge, and proceeded thither in a posting-carriage, be would find that a sum of money sufficient to have enabled him to con tinuo where he was , a fortnight longer would pass from his pocket into those of three postmasters and posthoys, and not fewer than twelve turnpike men, upon his line of dis tance, nominally of thirty, but in reality only of twenty seven and a half miles. This is only one of the many ex amples of this class I could cite from experience.— Gran ville's Spas cl England. KING OF TILE BELGIANS.—DOVER, FEB. 23.—Last night, at nine o'clock the King of the Belgians before e l even o ' c l oc k this morning arrived. At a little his Majesty embarked fur Calais, on board the Widgeon, Commander Hamilton, attended by Commander Smithey, 1 and proceeded to his destination, UNIVERSITY COLLEGE, LONDON Yesterday a meeting of the Proprietors of this Institu tion was held in tl:e Tbc Are of the University, to receive the Rep' rt of the Council, and to elect a President, Vice- President, Treasurer, six members of the Council, and one Auditor. Ia consequence of the notoriety which Mr. Tooke lately gairei in a correspondence relative to the borough of Finsbury, the attendance of Shareholders was unusually numerous. In the absence of Lord Brougham, President, who was to have presided, El. Warburton, Esq., M. P., was oaVed to the Chair. A very long and angry discussion ensued upon the ap pointment of Ecratincers, which was of no public importance beyond that of exhibiting strong dissatisfaction on the part cf the Shareholders as to_ the way in which the officers of tho Collpga were nominated. Colonel Leicester Stan hope, M. P., J. T. Leader, M. P., Mr. flume, M. P., Mr. Rainsford, and Mr. J. L. Robinson, took a part in the discussion, which terminated in the appointment of Major Naylor, and Messrs. Leader, Browne, and Copo as scrutineers. _ _ ~„. The Report having been read and adopted, the ballot fa the officers was returned, when the following were an nounced:—Lord Brougham, President; Duke of Somer set, Vice-President. For Treasurer, Mr. Tooke, 91 votes; Mr. Taylor, 89 votes. Mr. Tooke was thercfo; e declared the successful candidate Messrs. Wood, Easthopc, Tincombe, jun. and other gentlemen addressed the meeting in reference to the ap pointment cf Treasurer. The addresses of the several speakers alluded to the late charges preferred ageinst Mr. Tooke, of which the public hive already heard so much. Thinks Laving been voted to the Chairman, the meet ing te?arated. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. ROUSE OF COMMONS, Fin. 24. The SPEAKER took the Chair at five minutes before Four o'Clock. _ _ Mr. GEORGE EVANS presented a number of petitions from Stillorgan, Butterstown, and other places in the county of Dublin, in favour of Lord Morpeth's and against Lord Stanley's Registration Bill for Ireland. An How. MEMBER presented a petition from the King's County in favour of Lord Stanley's Bill. Lord GEORGE BENTINCK presented several petitions against the new Poor-law Bill. Colonel RAWDON presented petitions from Mo naghan in favour of Lord Morpeth's Bill. Lord WORSLEY presented petitions from places In Lincoln, against the new Poor-law Bill. Mr. ELLIOT presented petitions from kdburgh and other places in Roxburghshire, praying for the abo lition of patronage in the Church of Scotland. IRISH REGISTRATION. Mr. CORBALLY presented several petitions from places in Meath in favour of the Government measure for the Registration of Voters in Ireland, and against the Bill of Lord Stanley. Major BRYAN presented a petition from a place in Kilkenny to the same effect. Dr. STOCK presented a similar petition from the city of Cashel. Mr. REDINGTON presented similar petitions from two places in Galway. Sir W. SOMERVILLE presented a similar peti tion from a parish in Drogheda. Lord BRABAZON presentd a similar petition from a parish in Dublin. Mr. V. STUART presented a similar petition from Waterford. _ Mr. SOMERS presented similar petitions from two parishes in Sligo. Mr. GRANTLEY BERKELEY presented a pe tition from the members and friends of the Society of Universal Rational Religionists, formerly called So cinlists, in Cheltenham, praying for an inquiry into their doctrines, and for a remedy for the grievances and discontent which prevailed is the country. Major MACNAMARA preFeated a petition from the Board of Guardians in Ernie, praying that the number of the Assistant Poor-law Commissioners might be reduced. Mr. M. PHILLIPS presented a petition from the Leeds and Manchester Railway Company, praying fur the reduction of the tolls upon passengers on railways. The O'CONNOR DON presented petitions from Roscommon in favour of Lord Morpcth's Bill for the Registration of Voters in Ireland. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL presented a peti tion from Edinburgh, signed by 25,003 persons, pray ing for the abolition of Church patronage in Scot land. The Honourable and Learned Member pre sented a petition from a person named Hugh Frase-, a tailor in Glasgow, praying for Universal Suffrage. Lord AC El ES 0 N presented petitions from Armagh in favour of Lord Morpeth's Bill for the Registra.ion of Voters in Ireland, and against the 81l introduced by the Noth., Lord, the Member for North Lancashire. Mr. It. STEUART presented a petition from Had dington against Church Patronage in Scotland. Mr. 0 CONNELL presented 94 petitions from va rious parts of Ireland in favour of Lord Morpcth's Bill for the Registration of Voters in Ireland, and against the is.troduzed by the Noble Lord the Member I for North Lancashire. Mr. BELLEW presstolel 14 petifons to the same effe;:t from places is Louth and Down. Mr. PAKINGTON presented a petition from the Binningtam Canal Company against the Stamford and Rugby Railway Company. Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL presented several peti tions from places in the couay of Kerry against Lord Stanley's B-11, and in favour of Lord Morpcth'e. Lord CLEMENTS presented several retitions from places in the county of Leitrim against Lord Stanley's Bill, and in favour of Lord Morpeth's. Mr. F. MAULE presented petitions from Dundee, Erskine, and various other places, praying for the abo lition of p4tronage in Scotland. THE SUN - , LONDON, THEIRSDA_Y, FEBRUARY 25, 1841. BLACKWALL RAILWAY. Mr. GREENE brought up the Repoit from the Private Bill Committee, on the petition of the London and Bllckwrli Railway Company, stating that the Com pany had comiliA with the StAnciing Orders, and leave was givea to bring in the BIRMINGHAM CHARTER. In answer to a guntion from Sir E. WILMOT, Tue ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that the Judges having decided in favour of the validity of the Birmingham Charter, he thought that a Bill ought to be introduced to remove all doubts as to the right of the Corporation to appoint a Court of Quarter Sessions, and to settle the disputes at present subsisting between the towns of Birmingham and Warwick relating. to the gaol. He had not yet had an opportunity of conferring with the Ministers on the subject, but - h© should cer tairly advise the introduction of some such measure. Cclonei WOOD presented a peftion from the pre sent and the ex-officers of the Poor-law Guardians of the county of Brecon, praying that the powers of the Commissioners may not be extended. Mr. AINSWOItTH presented a petition from the inhabitants of the borough of Bolton, signed by 6,000 persons, against the New Poor-law Bill. Mr. ROCHE presented a petifon from the county of Cork praying the House to reject Lord Stanley's and to adopt Lord M3rpcth's Registration Bill. Mr. LYTTON presented petitions from the coun ties of Waterford, Tipperary, and Meath, in favour of Lord Stanley's Registration Bill, and against that brought in by the a)ternmcnt. Mr. H. GRATTAN presented petitions from places in the counties of Meath and Dubin in favour of the Government Registration Bill. Mr. J. GRATTAN presented similar petitions to the same effect from the county of Wicklow. Mr. A. YATES presentei two petitions from Car low to the same cfreet. Mr. CHALMERS presented a petition praying for the abolition of patroiage in the Kirk of Scotland. Lord MORPETH presented a petition from 22,000 inhabitants of Lverpool, in favour of the Noble Lord's Irish Registration Bill, and against the measure of Lord Stanley. Alqo petitions from several parishes in Ireland to the same effect. SOUND DUES. Mr. HUTT gave notice that on Tuesday, the 9th March, he should call the attention of the House to the tolls and customs levied at Elsineur by the Kin , " of Dont - nark on all ships and cargoes under the name of Sound Dues. The Hon. Member also gave notice, that on Friday lie should move for the minutes of evidence taken before the Select Committee on the Hull Docks in the course of last Session. Mr. W. ELLIS gave notice that in Committee on the Poor-law Continuance Bill, he should move an a a m geo en ina dm ethe e re n ta t o , irnd e ee mpowering the guardians of the poor to administer out-door relief to persons over sixty years of debate on the questiontor a y s s o o c e f s to lt or h o e d dayrlea reading resumingof the tra adjourned tio u of Mr. HAMILTONs reland) Bill being read, Colonies. Though he Parliamentarythe Noble Lord the Secretary for the said, ol that u he l wished \ to put a t t 1 0 , o brimA s Assistant s tpaanrtti parties o t o e r -fol trtaisimoubtolen second section of the Poor-I<<w Act, had thed knew tipi aottwhiaci he fr t o , i na m r. tph " a e nd examine them, ho Commissioners, under the trusted ho should hear from in those inqusitorial proceedings uoi,voNer of which he (Mr. H a . Hamilton) did not sanction the Assistant House, there e r o e l was an itnpor oor-law Commissioners readu d not occupy Ha milton) complained. taut discussion before the Holt; the cttention of Hon. Members, but w an extract from a letter on the subject which he had just from a Magistrate in the county of Buckingham. received . The Magistrate in ques tion was no t an Ultra-Tory or a cal—either of wh om mi g ht be su pposed to be inimical • 1-Ilc-1". & to the Poor - law Bill—but he was a mo st intelligentn al Magistrate. The question which he wished to put was, "concerning the powers of the Assistant Poor-law Com missioners to examine privately, on oath, into matters cognizable by the common law of the land, and hear wit nesses on oath without allowing legal advisers to the par ties." The lion. Member then proceeded to say that he trusted the Noble Lord would not suppose that he was now putting an irrelevant question. It was one, he thought, which affected all the poor classes of her Ma jesty's subjects. The Hon. Member concluded by read ing the extracts from the letter to which he had alluded. Lord J. RUSSELL, who Was indistinctly heard, said that with respect to the power of the Poor-law Commis sioners to take evidence on oath, that power was given them by the Act, and it was therefore unnecessary for him to give any other answer. With respect to the propriety of exercising that power, he might, with equal propriety be esllvd upon to discuss any other provision of the Bill by way of question.—(Hear, hear.) It seemed to him that there might be certain questions in which it would be proper for the Commissioners to exa mine in this manner. Whether in this particular case there had been atay abuse of power he was unable to state, not knowing the circumstances which, perhaps, on the discussion of the Poor-law Amendment Bill, the Hon. Gentleman would state to the House. REGISTRATION OF VOTERS (IRELAND) BILL. Lord STANLEY said he would postpone his Bill unt 1 Friday next, not with any intention of then bring ing it forward, but of then announcing when he would do so. ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE BILL. In answer to a question by Sir E. SUGDEN, Lord J. RUSSELL said that on Friday next ha proposed to bring forward Lord Keane's Annuity Bill first, then the second reading of the C ounty C ourts ' Bill, and then, if there were time, to go into the Admi nistration of Justice Bill. PARLIAMENTARY VOTERS' BILL (IRE- The Order of the Day for the adjourned debate hay. ing been read, -- Mr. BROTHERTON, who was for some time inau dible, in consequence of laughter and noise in the House, supported the second reading of the Bill. In declaring his own opinion, he expressed the sentiments of his co ostituents, from whom he had presented peti tions with five thousand signatures for justice to Ire land. In this country the inadequacy of the represen-* tation was the greatest cause of complaint. But in England, the proportion of representatio n was as one in twenty to the population ; in Scotland, it was as one in twenty-six ; but in Ireland, it was only as one in seventy.—(Hear, hear.) He be lieved that the Bill of the Noble Lord oppo site would tend to curtail the franchise in Ireland, and he therefore considered it unjust in principle, and that the Irish people had fair grounds for complaining of it. On the other hand he thought that the B 11 introduced by the Noble Lord, the Secretary for Ireland, woulc give general satisfaction in Ireland, and that it would at the same time meet with the approval of the people of England, and tend to unite the inhabitants of the two countries and promote the good understanding between them. For his part he was opposed to the repeal of the Union, to which he could never give his consent, but he thought it advisable that they should have it in their power to resist unreasonable and unjust demands by com plying with just ones. He thought it good policy to grant graciously what they could not refuse safely. The 81l before the House would, in his opinion, put an end to perjury, fraud, and litigation in the Irish Re gistration Courts ; and seeing the great benefits that would result from it to both countries, he had no hesi tation in giving it his meat cordial and earnest support. Mr. M. MILNES hoped that the House would per mit him to say a few words in explanation of the vote which he intended to give on the Bill then before the House. He was the more anxious to do so, in conse quence of the misrepresentations which the Noble Lord the Member for North Lancashire, when he introduced a Bill of a different nature, had been subjected to misrepresentations which every supporter of the Noble Lord's Bill should be prepared to bear. He felt the greatest anxiety that that great and important question should be finally settled ; and he sincerely regretted that her Majesty's Government had brought forward a measure which must, es they all knew, prevent that feli?itous conclusion.—(Hear.) They had heard a great deal during the debate of the difference between the detail and the principle of the Bill, and a spect.tor or reader of the debate would have much difficulty in determining the one from the other ; for while one party had maintainei that the alteration in the franchise was a matter of no importance whitcver that it was simply and accidentally tacked to the Bill ; by another party it was maintained the whole B:11 rested on it—(Hear, bear) — and to such an extent was that inconsistency carried that his Right Hon. Friend the Member for Edin burgh commenced his speech list night by stating that he considered the amount of the 51. franchise as a mat ter of no importance and almost irrelevant to the sub ject, and concluded by saying that the franchise itself was the great principle of the Bill. But as to the met•er of detail he must state to the House that even supposing the Poor-law in Ira Ind was established, and had become an or- ganise I system, instead of being the commencement o an experiment, he did not see that it would then be a more fair and just foundation for the franchise than any other system that could be devised. But when they beard such variations as those that had been trade in - the valuation of land in Ireland, and how tot Illy inconsistent they were with one another, he coull not say that he could agree even to th it point of detail at the prescet moment.—(Hear, hear.) There were also inconveniences attached to that mode of rating, which he did not think could be satisfactorily got over according to the Bill of the Noble Lord, and in that respect he could point to the contrast between the Bill of the Noble Lord the Secretary for Ireland, and the Bill which the lion. Member for Monaghan (Mr. Lucas) presented last yea-. Between those two Bills there was this most important distinction, that while under the Bill which the Noble Lord had brought forward a voter might perchance not possess the interest of a single shilling in his tenantcy, which gave him the right to vote—that in fact it was in et cry sense the right of the landlord and not the right of the tenant— the B li for the Hon. Member for Monaghan vested that right in the occupy ing tenant and the occupant alone. In the position which be occupied in the House, it would be impertinent in him to attempt to enter into the details of the B(11, but he must say a few words as to the principle of the Biil Now, whether he consi derel the admissions made by his Right Hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh last evening, or the contra dictions of other gentlemen who had spoken on the other side, he would appeal to the House and the country, whether the principle of the Bill was not the augmentation of the franchise in Ireland.—(Hear, heir.) One point more as to the introduction of the Bill. If her Ma jetty's Ministers had really intsndcl to pass that all, so Volt it might become law—if they really felt the danger to be so immincet and pressing they never would have brought that all into the House with such a provision attached to it as they knew must prevent its ever passing into law. He had no objection to the Ministers of the Crown bringing for ward measures which they wish to become law, although they may be aware they cannot pass them at the time, in order to accustom the public mind to consider the subject, so that eventually, the measure may become law. It was in that way that Roman Catholic Emanci pation had been carried. It was in that way that the Recorm Bill had become law ; but were they to wait in this manner whole years for the Bill of the Noble Lord, when they had a measure in the Bill of the Noble Lord the Member for Lancashire, which they were ready to bring into Committee, and submit to any alteration which the House might think fit to adopt. He wished to impress upon the House that the Government had not brought forward this measure with any intention that. it should pass into a law. It was evident they had some ulterior object in view, and as to what that might be every one must form his own opinion. One thing, however, was most remarkable throughout this debate, and that was the silence of the Gentlemen wko took a radical view of political affairs.—(Cheers. They seemed to have retired into silent self congratulation, for they saw that they bad now got the Government on their own ground—on the reilroad of progressive reform. Before he sat down he would remark upon the conclu sions that had been come to by his Right Honourable Friead the Member for Edinburgh, when he mentioned the possibility that the great and loyal people of Ireland should join the enemies of the British Em pire.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") When they remem bered with what scorn Ireland had received such an imputation, could they for a moment think that that great people would forfeit their allegiance to the British empire ? Now that the distinctions of caste and creed were done away with, Ireland and England formed one part of the British empire. He would ask the Hon. Member for Dublin whether he believed, if this measure passed into a law, the people would be content with this nominal franchise ?—(Hear, bear.) It was not by these bmeans enlighteningthat lreland the was ppeople p r o be of thatat t a c o hed ouo t t o r y , E a n o g d l a b n i d o , d b i o u g t therm by mutual understanding and mutual interest. That great object was also to be effected by a system of education, and a union of religious differences, which the Noble Lord, who had been so maligned, had en• deavoured to establish.—(Hear, hear.) Sir W. SOMERVILLE said, that as the proposi tion then before the House was a new one, he trusted that he might be permitted briefly to state his views upon it, and the reasons which could induce him to vote for the second reading of the Bill. He had often ex pressed his opinion that in Ireland there never could be any sound and satisfactory system of registration until it was based upon a new footing, He could not help expressing his regret that the Noble Lord who led the oppositi on to this Bill should have stated that under no combination of circumstances would he give his as sent to a rati ng un d er th e P o or-law. He had ho p ed that however th e d e t a il s m i g ht b e o bj e cted to, howev er the y might think that the franchise was too low, all would be willing to support some plan for placing the elec tive franchise upon a sure and sound foundation. But howeve r vas t t h e i mprove ment proposed , he was bound to say th a t i t did not go to the root of the evil.—(Hear.) The constituencies would continue to di m i n i s h f rom year to year. In Ire . land of therethe w laasnaalsotredesdyinantelhart country dinnctryrease of prosperity —(Hear, h ear )—b ut t h ere was an i n disposition on the part to confer upon their tenants the means of acquiring the elective fran- chise. That would still bo in operation if the 8.11 passed into a law, and they w ould find at last that the constituencies would have so dwindled that the Legislature of this country would be compelled to adopt some plan to prevent the representation from being entirely on one side.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He was very sorry to detain the House by entering into details, but he trusted the great importance of the subject would excuse him for putting the House in possession of the former a•ad the present state of the constituency of the county of Meath. It was to be borne in mind that that county had the advantage of a near neighbourhood to the port of Drogheda, whence they had opened up to them the whole of the vast and im portant markets of Lancashire.—(Hear.) In the year 1821, the population of Meath was 159,000—in 1831 it amounted to 176,000, and supposing they were to take the increase up to 1841 in the same ratio it would give a population of 193,000. Under the Reform Bill the constituency was 1,536 ; in January, 1841 it was no more than I,263.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Lft them bear in mind, that in that period there bad ben a vast increase in the prosperity of the county, yet the falling off in the constituency during the eight years was no less than one-sixth—this was a _ serious state of things, and was deserving of the best consideration of the House. The House was not then in possession of data, so that they might take his word for the fact ; but Returns would soon be laid on the table of the House, which ho much doubted would show that the constituency was not now so great as it was before the Reform Bill. It had been complained that the people were com pelled to vote against their landlords. The fact was that they frequently did vote against them. If in Ireland political circumstances only were discussed upon occasions of election, that general opposition of the people to their landlords might excite some surprise. But, unfortunately, in that country those questions alway took a religious turn.—(Hear.) Incalculable mischief was caused in Ireland by the language used in that House.—(Hear, hear.) Conservative Gentlemen in Ireland condemned that language ; but yet here it was made a trade to vilify the Catholic religion and clergy.—( Hear, hear.) Was it wonderful, then, that the people should say at the time of election that men were put forward as the enemies of the clergy and religion, and was it wonderful that the Catholic tenantry should feel themselves, to a man, bound by their allegiance to their rc'i gion to oppose such candidate?—(Cries of " Hear, hear.) Much mischief had also been done by the virulent language indulged in by the Con• servative press of England.—( Hear, hear.) All the violent articles published in this country we e inserte I in the Irish Liberal papers, and the minds of the people become still more inflamed and exasperated against their landlords, whom they identi fitd with the party which was so inimical to their religion.—(Hear, hear.) He did not go the length of expecting that the Bill now under consideration would Fettle the question of the franchise, but it would do one thing—it would attempt to define it.—( Hear.) He would not now stop to dispute the question of law. It was sufficient for his purpose to state that doubt ex isted—(Hear, hear)—and that House was bound in duty to come forward and settle the doubt by defining the franchise. If it was to be defined by the solvent tenant test, let it be so ; and if the mode of ascertaining the franchise by the beneficial in terest was wrong let them find out another test, but let them not leave the matter in doubt—if they did I so, at their doors must lie the charge of fraud and per jury which the unfortunate people were subject to, and which they were actually led into by the state of doubt in which the matter rested. This much was clear, that whether there was to be a change in the value of the franchise or not, some change must be made. It was quite certain that the Reform Mtnistry in the year 1832 determined that the franchise was not to be ascertained by the solvent tenant test. A motion was made when the Irish Reform Bill was introduced to that effect, but it was rejected, and he reminded the House that when the Irish Reform Bill was before the House of Lords, Lord Ellenborough stated upon that point that they had introduced into the Bill a leasehold qualification, which is less than the freehold one as settled in 1829. Did not the Duke of Richmond say that the solvent tenant test was in effect a 20/. qualification? Did not Lord Lansdowne say that the solvent tenant to was a 20/. qualification ? Yea, e ach of these Noble Lords had said s). Did not Lord Roden divide the House of Lords on the motion for reinstating the original freehold qualification of the year 1829, and was not that motion lost ? The adminis tration of justice was, brought into contempt in Ireland, and the character of the Judges was daily lowered by . the differences of opinion entertained by them on the question of the franchise. After having done so much to reconcile the people of Ireland to the administration of justice, after having given them confidence, that House Iwas now lasing ground. The character of their Lordships was at stake, and he called upon every well-wisher of Ireland to lend his aid to stop the course of such a state of things, and to remove all doubt from what ought to he the t .!st of the franchise. ()cc of the objections of the Noble Lord to the Bill was, he said, against the bringing of the Poor-law into operation as regarded the definition of the franchise.--(Hear, hear.) He (Sir William Somerville) did not see that the effect which the Noble Lord anticipated would arise from that arrangement. There was something against which the Noble Lord did not object, and which was worse in i's tendency than that, and that was the making registration officers of the Judges.—(Ministerial cheering.) He (Sir W. Somerville) was satisfied that no well-wisher of Ire land would do anything else than seek to remove any imputation being attached to the Judges. If the Noble Lord SAW that it was better to give the English Par liamentary franchise to the people of Ireland, why did he not give the same Municipal Reform Bill to that people ? (Loud cheers.) Was it worth while to withhold that small boon from the people of Ire land, and thereby create great dissatisfaction in that country ? The bestowal of the boon involved a risk. Why then was it not extended to the people of Ireland ? The Noble Lord (Lord Stanley) had stated that ex aggerated statements had been made with respect to his Bal. He (Sir W. Somerville) had, both in that 'House and in other places, given every opposition in his power to it. Perhaps he had taken an exaggerated view of the mischiefs that would result from the 811, and if he had opposed it on any occasion in what seemed an unfair manner, he hoped the Noble Lord would accept his apology. He should be very sorry to offer an unfair oppo sition to any measure (Hear, hear) but he could assure the Noble Lord that all the information which he had been able to procure had not lad him to change his opinions with regard to the ince'• callable mischief which would result from his Bill.— He solemnly protected it to be his opinion that if that Bill passed there would not be twenty Liberal Mem bers returned for Ireland. He was sure that was a state of things the . Noble Lord would not wish to see. The Noble Lord had stated as much, and be (Sir W. Somerville) was bound to give every credit to that statement, but he might be allowed to judge of the effect of his measure. He (Sir W. S.) was not singular in this opinion. It was also the opinion of one of the most influential Conservative organs in this country. What did he find in a recent number of the Standard newspaper 2—" The Irish registries arc improving though not rapidly, and Lord Stanley's Bill would purify them altogether, and give the Conservatives at least 80 out of the 105 Members. This was certainly purifying them with a vengeance. His opinion was that the Standard newspaper was below the mark.—( Hear, hear.) And how would the Bill do this ? A double appeal was quite enough to disfranchise anybody ; but what he objected to . was that the freeholders would never reach the Ap peal Courts, some part of the counties being to his knowledge 30 miles from the assize town.—(Hear.) Could it be expected he would go there ? Could it be expected that a poor man would travel thirty miles to appear before a Court of Appeal, for the purpose of establishing his claim to the franchise? He (Sir W. Somerville) believed that he would not. He recollected that when, in 1829, the Right Honourable Baronet the Member for Tamworth had brought forward a measure for the disfranchisement of the 40s. freeholders, and giving the appeal one way, the late Lord Farnham, a man who knew the Irish people as well as any Member of the House, said that as regarded the poor freeholder the appeal to the Judge would be only nominal, on account of the expense that would attend it. It would cost him, he said, at least a half year's rent.—(Hear, hear.) He (Sir W. Somerville) would put it to the House whether it would be fair to compel the free holder to go 30 miles to substantiate his claim. after it had before been sifted in the Registration Court, with an ingenuity of which many Members of that House could have no idea? It was his opinion that a provision of such a nature would have the effect of totally dis franchising the Irish constituencies ; and he hoped that the Noble Lord opposite, before he pressed that Bill, would give it again his serious consideration. They had heard a good deal of the courage of the Noble Lord, but courage was sometimes better evinced by moderation than in aggression.—(Cries of " Hear.") He would conjure the Noble Lord if ho had the welfare of the country at heart, as he was sure ha had, to pause before he pressed a Bill which was opposed to the wishes of the entire Irish nation. He said the entire Irish nation, although he was aware that petitions had been presented from Belfast and other parts of Ireland in favour of the measure. He was aware, too, that petitions of a similtr nature had been presented from Liverpool and other parts of Eng land ; but he was afraid that if the Bill had not a tendency to restrict the liberties of Ireland, they would never have heard of those petitions. The Noble Lord had stated that his Bill would admit the independent body of electors. At the passi n g of the Reform Bill the Noble Lord stated that the forty shilling freeholders were disfranchised because they voted at the beck of the landlord ; but now the Noble Lord stated that he refused the franchise to a number of people be cause they would not vote at the beck of their landlord. EVENING ED ITION Lions, and that great subdivision of laerd I ad teen the oc casion of almost all the evils of Ireland. That system bed now been almost entirely aboliahei ; they had , at the cost of great suffering to the people, almost completed the state of transition to a better orler of thirge and now they were to be thrown back upon all the evils of the for mer system. The Act constituting the 40s. freehol der; had been passed by the Irish Perliament 1793 ; and he would read from the second Re" , port of the Railway Commissioners an extract, show teas irg the effect which that law had produced. That Report signed by the late Mr. Drummond. He need not stop to , eulogise that gentleman now far the excellent and effiCiellt manner in which ho discharged his duty a s a RailwaY Commissioner. He dellrel from him on many Piet, more particularly as to the policy which he bad in conjunction with Lord Mulgrave ; but lie could not withhold from him his meed of approbation for the con scientious discherge of what he believed is be I is —(Cheers.) That Report stated that the population Ireland, in 1791, amounted to 4,206,612 ;in 1821, t° : 6,801,827 •; in 1831, to 7,767,201 •; and, in 1338, at the : late of the Report, to eight millions and a half. Thii increase of population had been entirely owing to the pursue subdivision of lands occasioned by the Act of 1793, a rd the dreadfully distressed state of tt e unfortunate agricul tural population was most fecliegly depicted. The landlords dreaded a return to that system, and it was not only on political grounds that they we re opposed to the measure of the Governmeat, but as having a ten ecacy le reproduce the subdivision of lard. The Railroad Com; missioner had said it was necessary for the public goo d that the pauper tenantry should be changed into indeten' dent labourers. That change had been taking Place during the last ten years, but the measure of the Nob le Lord would throw them all back into their former destitute condi tion. He would earnestly call upon those Membe rs who bad the welfare of Ireland at heart to pause and seriously consider whether they were prepared is cut up by the root all the good which had been gradually done since 1829. Were ° Lc / prepared to throw all again into utter confusion by agt slit to pass the Bill of the Government? In his opinion there were many reasons to justify a much smaller constitael in Ireland than in a wealthy country like England. Wb a fell from the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin d 1837 ? Upon a discussion on the Poor-law Bill, he said that in 1836 the destitution in Ireland far exceeded all the calculations of the Commissioners. There were 585,0 00 • heads of families in a state of destitution during the d greateef portion of 1836. He computed them to be at the hea ° • three millions of population, two-thirds of them destitute during the best part of the }ear, and one-third during the whole year. Now surely they were not going to give theen franchise to the pauper population. Three millions th had to be deducted from the eight millions when they e n ,o nl e : pared the number of electors to the population. 11- Government had, in his (Orem, totally failed I* showing any necessity for such a violent eita r s in the franchise. But suppose for a moment tl-- they had ma le out a case, where had they shown i ,a basis upon which to rest it. The information they " 3 0 given to the blouse clearly showed that the rating Ol e which it was proposed to rest the franchise was Ina% directly at variance with the enactments of the Poor -law Act. They proposed also to extend the 5/ franchise_ s boroughs, yet they had not presented one single report? any inquiry into any city or town. Now, why wa s the They could only draw inferences. He would state wh ag came to his knowledge respecting Cork. lie had a r e i turn of the valuations of that city. In the lowest pill Cork, in Dublin-street, be had the return of twe nt y -Oh houses rated at 5/., fur the purposes of local taxation 02t the Poor-rate; three of them were valued at 71. ! fiv °a d, 81., eight at 91., sevea at 101., and one at 11 1 ,s,! f The result proved that in the various classes of houses ° • which he had obtained returns, the valuation for local It e , n r. poses exceeded that under the Poor-law valuation leY i s r° t - e 10 to 150 psr cent Now, there was another Po n ' J. which he wished to call the attention cf the Noble l' e t r e He had received a letter from Mr. Philip Reeve, a g e° V; man formerly at the bar, but who was now living °n a le property in the county of Clare, and who was int imate an 'el h e acquainted with the circumstance's of the country , p a t stated it to be his deliberate conviction, that if the Press 0 measure was carried, it would confer the franchi se aP ile 20,000 voters in that country alone.—( Hear, bear.) submitted to the House that it was an exceedingly let, litic thing to increase the constituency to the extent the Noble Lord's (Lord Morpeth's) Bill propose d to 1P;oe It would be a totally unmanageable business if th e rest os Ireland would have a constituency in the same prodpertibis as it appeared the county Clare would have une r s erf, Bill. If the county Clare were to have 20,000 vo.. how many would the county Cork have? Why , talt 2 its great extent and population into consideration, it W ° , 7 0 0 have no fewer than 100,000 voters. The great objdeslo., against such an enormous increase was, that it would are. ment an influence which was too powerful for Irclan the too powerful for the cyclerinteeq of the country—he O e f au „ t es influence of the Cathol gy ire that country. ' t - i c tb was intended to invest the Catle lie clergy as a body election influence. To be cure they had a right to vote at. well as ()Veer individuals; but their influence as a b 0 0 0s, elections was, he contended, too great ; it was clang - s s and such was the opinion of the Duke of Wellingtordeev. pressed at the time of the abolition of the 40s. freaholco The 40s. freeholders were abolished, because theY risers,w net that intelligent, independent class 01 it who ought to possess the franchise ; and *°-beo was proposed to give the prisi'ege of the fran-gOrla to a similar class of men ; for he insisted that the Pe f r th e registered uncier a 51. qualefication were virtually ° id he same class as the 4es. freeholders. Now what 1 0° w ho the consequences of giving the franchise to such nee ° ' e n were completely under the influence cf their , the ono lido, and of tl:e priests on the other? b e " - e ° e% Gentleman the Member for Cavan, in the excellent sPct-ea which he made last night, and which met the aePrt i e -l er of all parties, said he would not give even to the cle r ee s sed the Established Church the same power that was pos t e ", o e) by the Catholic priests in Ireland, who he (Mr. -ri te " - t he would say did not give the same pledges of security State as the Protestant clergy. The } rierts ever ° s n itf men—( Laughter)— and bad no stake in the consideeeces not so the Protestant clergy ; they were like otherd-oho• hers of society. He thought that as individuals else body lie clergy ougirt to possess some right, but as ,*„ fe they ought not to have the power ellich 'SS' ette ) geetted to say was in their handa.—( Hear, hear , P oo ffl The actual majc rity possessed by the Government en see was but eleven or twesve, and it was not the repre tt meee thee of England who kept that Government in ° s oma but some thirty-four Members returned by Irish ee n r - t eet encies. The people of Ireland, in fact, at the P,f4 e ar, moment controlled] the people of Englando Ole hear.) He objected to this Bill, because it disturl,lp the set:lemant of 1829. There was a growing fcclirg oeuntry to disturb that settlement, and he regretted It j o ing called upon the House not to furnish arguments forf that so. He objected also to the argumee; mad e use 0 d oe it was necessary to grant this measure, because it sca t ° t le ad genius to excite discontents in Ireland, whic h mig" meet to the severance of the two countfes. This erg ilOOO, was is() much like that employed elsewhere by tr „ r eset and Learned Member for Dublin, and he (Mr. °e,creeol° Jackson) was astonished to hear such an a rgUrnOL a bC the lips of the Right Hon. Secretary at War. 11a T; ear t a dangerous argument, and one which shou ld net be oiler ployed in that House by any person, and still less of her Majesty's Ministerr.—(llear, hear ) Oleg' Mr. SL AN N EY, in rising to support the second re t he expresacd his regret that the moderation with w i j i t oe c ogiv e g o a lle .. discussion bad been carried on by many gcntlerne n 4,efs , sides was not observed by all who spokes— it ° He thought the Hon. Member ler Cavan on the 01W be ds (the Tory) side, and the Hon. Member for near him, deserved the thanks of the House for th g e ar, nor in which they had treated the question and leis. hear.) All were agreed that a most vexatious ee o ftho chievous uncertainty existed as to the interpretatioe lose qualification clause in the existing las ; and a s °O o , o sed for removing the ambiguity seemed possible to be psi3O,o except that upon which this Bill was devised, Wil ke me' they refuse to go into Committee, prepare d te o%olo' tual concessions, and to settle the amount of Oc t : l m the .l cation upon conditions satisfactory to all ? lie tbogi her et franchise war too Hear, Lea's) „ I. was Majesty's Ministers affirmed that the rating at j • Coir test of 101. value, and he was wiping to bear ° no des mitten the grounds on which that assertion wa* ie fij ele He did not think that the statements made by the v ar ec t ' Lord the Secretary for Ireland were sufficient te bade We' all the details of the measure. But the principle t o te.• fully made out, and for that alone he was prepared ci ° to the was of the highest importance to Ireland, it ne ver empire, lt that this question should be settled, and er With could be settled in a peaceable and effective maralloorateite out mutual concessions, which could be made i ra' tee He believed that there were prudential ca . of this tions at present which pressed for tie settleteeln l e ore que tion.—( Hear.) He, therefore, api ealcd dc- Gentlemen opposite to go into the Commioce sevi°,:;"oo as termination to yield something of their own ;wee, * to procure, by a sacrifice of feelings upon beta e, u ,esue permanent adjustment of the irritating an d most law i° disputes which the present state of the electoral Ireland kept tip in the House and in Ireland. , his 11° ° ' Mr. THESIGER felt that the speech 0 ' Wee Friend the Member for Shropshire had left th.ceridood in some di ffi culty. In the beginning his Flom F_ r ; be that his object was to suggest a middle course, a 9 "_ p eers eluded by saying that no middle course could :e t , NO but that the principle of the Bill must be acieel e ee . Torg i the principle of the Bill was what they on that thewt`' ee side cf the House decidedly objected to. From it w as 011 ; of the Noble Nord opposite ( Lord Morpc.th? tb dent that the Si. franchise was really the prine,yleo ocees Noble Lord intimated that if that p art 01 Hear,t eeler' lost, he would abandon the whale measure. --a set His Hon. and Learned Friend, the Member fi „ r ea red g ° touched last night upon an objection whiebeel,foiyer it; him (Mr. Thesiger) of very great and e 0", regard f portance. He stated that this measure, 1 h l' s t ttlera ell u t ° I. the alteration of the franchise, . affected tee se o d the great question on which that most saluta_ry,iii, as . a? ing measure, the Roman Catholic Kell _P tiato with founded, and violated the pledge g i v en at tl l vr e ce a wac e respect to the franchise. Hon. Members ~istsd that at thae4toiT.efrteheaht freehold d ill ' c w o a n s st i i n t t u r c o r ts y c , ed coir th p e ;: . ee g o u t en p e e c r s Lena in the exercise of the elective franchise; a . prei." 'l3lll, °P re sons likely to be, to a very considt rabic e xtett i t,,l a e t a t the time it was proposed to introduce that _ m i g ht sions were entertained that very great clang: ere might , Un la suit from the measure, if that constituency lit h e ee touched, and that very greet temptations reibee se t here r : It Ilau s , , out to fraud in the multiplication of voters• tied, unless it were accompanied by the „ be-teem , fore been determined that that measure many aeons I 40s. freeholders in counties ; and Le e ort, R e amo te e. its 13( !r n g e ,ioll twoerethiendumeeedasutoregifvoer thichier rerleulcietfautosfupgric tholics in Ireland, in consequersco foe; the °"- ' area companied by tl e enactment consideredh the time, a constituency which it was Althou above all undue and improper freeholdsinfluoesnee be rs ye! of the 405. freeholders, and of its creatir,lt the Bill for the annibPation of the 4 h „ and , Do time, the House before the Roman ,Cat oli le t the me e sk i e seri undoubtedly °°ev e i sheoeutlindenti°otr, u o ' f bet:bre, as part of the same measure. 'Kb n the A t p w r o i B l i B ll 3 s 9 r: c a e i n v d e d t t h h e e y R w o e y r a e l sse o nt i 0 freehold The Noble Lord was difficult to please—( . Heer, hoar) —and so the franchise of the Irish people was to be frittered away, and when any Bill to improve the present system was introduced it met with unqualified opposition. Ho should give his vote against the second reading of the Bill before the House, and should give the Bill of the Noble Lord opposite ( Lord Stanley) his decided opposition. It had ben sail, those matters that were complained of in the Noble Lord's Bill might he al tered in Committee. That would be a very good argu ment if the principle of the Bill could be tolerated, but when the Bill would disfranchise the entire community, as he (Sir W. Somerville) thought, was he not justified in offering every opposition to the Bill in his power, rather than place such mighty interests in jeopardy. It was right that the House should have a sense of the magni tude of the int :Tests now at stake. If the Noble Lord's Bill passed--and it was right the truth should be ton— ic wrs right the Government should know the truth, and it was right the Right Hon. Baronet opposite (Sir R. Peal) should know the truth—if the Noble Lord's Bill passed, they must be prepared to govern I eland by other means and with another weapon than that of public opi. nion.—ll was his firm belief that if the House passed that 8 . 11 all attempt at conciliation in Ireland by means of public opinion would fail. He should oppose the Bill, because he did not wish to see such a state of things existing—(Hear)—and because he was attached to the [Mon that existed bit veen the two countries, as long as it could be maintained benefic . - ally for both. —( Hear, 'lsar, from the Repealers.) He had not been afraid to express that opinion,—he had ad hered to it through good report and through evil report, because he thought that:the Union, if maintained upon a basis of equality, would tend to the advantage of both. It was his wish to see the experiment which the Go vernment was now making successful, and to be a witness of the progressive improvement of Ireland in conjunction the improvement that the union of the two coun tries was calculated to confer on both, and not to reit on any weapon except public opinion. Therefore it was than not offering any factious opposition to the Bill of the Noble Lord opposite, lie felt bound to resist it--he must therefore continuo to give it his most strenuous opposition, and lit was convinced that the best way of doing so was to support, independently of the merits of the Bill itself, the Bill of the Noble Lord the Secretary for Ireland. He could not conceal from Lim self that the rejection of that Bill was tantamount to the adoption of that of the Noble Lord.—( Cheers.) Mr. Sergeant JACKSON was glad to observe that the speech of t':c Hon. Baronet who had just sat down was characterized by the same spirit of moderation which had characterized the whale debate, and he was gratified to find that a debate of such importance was likely to he con ducted with such temper. The Hon. Baronet had fol lowed in the footsteps of tho Hon. Secretary of War, who, in the debate of last evening, had entered rather into the merits of the Bill of the Noble Lord the Member for North Lancashire, than into that of the Noble Secretary for Ire land. Both those gentlemen had assailed the Bill of the Noble Lord because it gave a double appeal. They had however forgotten that the law at present gave the appeal one way, and the alteration introduced by the Noble Lord, giving it both ways, was, he considered, rather an improve ment than otherwise. But the Bill of the Noble Secre tary for Ireland professed to give the appeal both ways on matters of law, and therefore it was equally amenable to the criticisms of the Secretary of War and of the Hon. Baronet. The Right Hon. Baron, t s: id the present was a Bill de fining the franchise. He denied that; it recited that doubts existed, and instead of removing those doubts, and declar ing the law, it displaced tha existing franchise altoge ther, and adopted a new one entirely subversive of the Reform Bill. The lion. Baronet was likewise mistaken when he represented that his Noble Friend was opposed to any principle of rating. His Noble Friend objected to no such thing, and he believed that there were many gen tlemen on that side of the House who thought it would be an excellent thing to adopt the test of rating. He for one should be delighted to try that standard. The Hon. Ba ronet had fallen into another error—be had stated that the Noble Lord was inconsistent with himself, that he dis franchised the 40.. freeholders because they were depen dent on their landlords, and he refused to enfranchise these 51. raters because they would be independent of their landlords. Now the very reverse was the fact. The class of electors now proposed to be created would be more objectionable infinitely than the 405. freehrldera.— ( Hear, hear.) He was greatly surprised last eight that the Right Hon. Gentleman who closed the debate should have chosen to follow the powerful, argumentative, and conclusive speech of the Hon. and Learned Member for Exeter, with such a frothy piece of declamation, which had no sense nor argument.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) The Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Macaulay) was ho ( Mr. Jackson) believed a . member of the legal profes sion. But in his speech of last night he showed an entire ignorance of law.—( Hear, and a laugh.) The Right Honourable Gentleman said that there eught to be no re-investigation of the franchise, when once de cide-1, because no re-investigation of a case once decided in a Court of Jusfcc was allowed. In feet, nothing was mere frequent than re-investigation of a case in which new evidence was di covered. New trials were constantly granted where a verdict had been obtained by surprise or by perjury. In cases of real proptrev, ejections were issued again and again, after judgment had been given a dozen times in favour of the person in pos-eeien. Mr. O'CONNE LL made some observation which was not heard in the g,al:ery, but excited some laughter and miss of " Order." Mr. Sergeant JACKSON would be glad to be cor rected by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman when he rose in his place. The effe,t of the al. franohine on the coun ties would be to substiaite a pauper qualification for the property qualification which was created by the Reform Bill. lie said that the proposed system was a direct contraven tion of the Reform Act, by subvei ting the existing quali fication—net defining it—and substituting a lower one in its place. He would not object to adopting the Poor ] VA' valuation, provided it were required that tie claimant should have a 10/. interest in his holding over and above the rent. The MB then lefore the [louse appeared to hove been originally two Billa. It contained two :cts of clauses; the one relating to the registry and the other to tie franchise. The first eighteen clauses referred t o the former subject, and he found that that portion was printed differently from the latter part, in which the type was larger, and was leaded, so that it was spread over mice as much space as that which preceded. His impression, therefore, was, th it the Bill was not that which it was at fiat intended should be introduced; and perhaps the Noble Lord, looking to the result of recent elections, and to the dissensions among his own fullowera, had ih eight proper to alter the measure, in order to satisfy the more violent of his party.—( Hear, hear, hear.) He (Mr. Sergeant Jackson) would, however, venture to say that Ministers could never expect the Bill to be passed into a law ; and he believed they would not ask the House to go into Committ 43 emit either next neck or the week after, and probably not until after Easter. The Bill was a mere make-belie'', and was supported on the second reading by many lion. Gentlemen opposite, who would not vote for the 51. qualification. The Noble Lord in introducing the Bill, had admitted that an annual revision, and a double appeal, as well as the abolition of certifica'ese were de sirable; and yet his Noble Friend (Lord Stanley) because he had introduced similar provisions in his Bill of 13st year, had become the object of unmeasured situperation, having been called a "scorpion," and a thousand other name , . The supporters of this Government Bill were at vasiauce with themselves. The Hoe. Secretary at War had sai I that, the 5/. clau - e was the very essence of the Bill. The Right Hon. Gentleman, the Attorney-Gene ral for Ireland, said that it was a mere question of amount —that the 5/. was printed in italics. That statement was perfectly true. But wore the words " that any person who should be in the actual occupation of such property should be entitled to he registered," were those words:printed in italics? Instead of being intended for the consideration of the Committee, they were in fact made the very essence of the Bill. The Noble Lord hal stated most distinctly that Le would not have introduced the Bill, however be neficial it might be in other respects, un'ess it contained that principle. He thought that every Hon. Member of that House who was attached to the monarchical institu tion of this country, as opposed to the democratic prin ciples which were abroad, was called upon to resist the innovation, and to vote against the second reading of this Bill. English gentlemen were as much interested in this measure as Irish, It was not exclusively an Irish q ees tion which they were then called upon to consider and to settle. Would any one imagine that if the Ball were in troduced in Ireland, the principle would stop there, and not be introduced into England? There would imme diately be an exclamation on the part of the English and Scotch, that they were not upon the same footing as the Irish. It was extremely important in the discussion of this question to look to the opinions which had bean expressed in the discussion on the Reform Bill. On referring to that discussion, he found Lord Durham stating and rejoic ing in the consideration, that only one-third of the voters in this country would have so low a qualification as 10/. ; he found Lord Lansdowne stating, that in towns there would be more 15/. than 10/. householders. He found Lord Grey, and the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies, speaking of the Reform Bill as a resting place for the Constitution, so that it would not be again dis turbed by revolutions. Was it not then a monstrous thing for her Majesty's Government, in the straits in which they felt themselves, to propose an alteration of that settlement? If such a change should be made under any circumstances, the necessity for it should be clearly made out. What was the case made here? It was said that the constituencies of Ireland were considerably reduced. The returns laid upon the table proved no such thing; they proved that the constituencies both of the towns and counties in Ireland had considerably increased since the passing of the Reform Bill. He had returns from the Queen's county, and according to them, in December 1832, there were on the register 1,494 voters, and in December, 1840, that was after ;the expiration of toe eight years, the constituency was 1,559; that was, therefore, an increase of nearly 100, and such was the actual strength of the constituency at that mo ment. He had also returns from other places—from Kil dare, and there the constituency, in 1832, was 1,121, while in 1840 it was 1,961 ; there was, therefore, an in crease of between 800 and 900 in that small country. In Wicklow, in 1832, the number was 1,520, and in 1840 1,468 ; that was a falling off, but that was to be accounted leases ; but there was also an indis p osition on the part of the by the landlords of Ireland be in g indis p osed to grant the tenants to take them, because they did not like to place themselves between two fires—because,voted against the priests he rendered himselfobn ox if iou a s, m an a d e if he e voted T o againsttu rns beforelandlordthetbeH o h u e so in sh c o u w rr e c d d o h l i a s rg d o i r spl u r con stituency than really existed , because it included the names of . re many that were dead. It was not enough to say the con stituency was reduced,—it must be shown that it was re duced in such a manner as not to give fair representation, before they could call upon the House to repeal the Re form Bill, which was the effect of the present Bill. He agreed with the observations of the Noble Lord the Se cretary for Ireland, that the country could not stand suc cessive revolutions. The 5/ ratieg constituency would be infinitely worse than the old 40s. freeholders, and what had been the evils of the system of the 40e. free holders ? Why, the landlords for the purpose of cant ing riots, had divided the land into the most minute per.