The Sun. — London, England, 1828-03-05 00:00:00

*he lowness of wages were mrelative circumstances. No man, he thought, could detibt that the increase •of crime was the result of tit:: lowness of wages, which induced the laboorinn elaeses to resort -to' other Meat's than itidusio-y to supply their wants.- •MI the* im vertant cOnSideeetions were interwoven with the einestinn .' , of a reditridaoy of pJpalation. . if the eedondant portion eif'thep4ulation were abetracted fteera the market, the :price otlabour would rise. This must be donehefore it eveitid-be possible to withdraw that clause of the poor which compelled parishes to find eneployment for he unemployed past of, tbe . population. So long as that clause existed, it would act, as a bonus on popula• tiato Mr. Malthus was of - opinion, that finless .7;7:Ilion were extensively . resorted to, ate 'alteration o f flee poor laws would speedily 'he found necev %dry. The opinions .beld by Me. Malthus on the sub- e lect of einigratemi were, he wts happy to find, adopted by InanY ',moons in this .coitetry, and also in the colonies theineelves. Long befot' .it was possible that. either the report or tile eeide nce of the feet emigration terkm: veittee email havo leached Canada, he coined the 'following vcsolutions had 1n n passed at itieentreal. (Here the reiehie Mtn. Member read some reoei?utbns in favour of emigretiore) . In Upper Uttada they were in want of this P"Pulatieno which was the itto4-..as under whose weight ti:e Prolr e erity of this country eeiffered so much. In may of th'e colonies, the surplus population we'lld be an e a eoote 'age ;at hottete it was worse than useless. It appeared, from correct estimates, that the cultivated pall of the Ca &lades amounted to 111,000,000 of aces-a. In Great Britain -end Iceland, the whole amount VC land cultivated and uncul rei voted was 77,000,000 of me m The calculation Arm ) that there was one person in the Uatiadas to eery 169 acres, wilertas in this country tiecre were inetY-seven per eons in the saute extent of kr.4. In a conversation with Mr. Gallatin, of the retited States, that_ gentleman had stated that he hod otiginally settled on the extreme 'borders of civilization, beyond which extended thoee boutullese Forests which seemed to put a chetk to the improvement of man. At this day, however, a line deown in a straight direction from that ]mint of settlement along the space formerly occupied by those forests, would pate through civilized countries for an extent of 800 miles. 'When such was the prodigious advance of civilization in the United States, what !eight not he expected from a josh cious disposal of that part of our population who might be willing to try their fortune is our own esettlements? It 'u a principle admitted by all political teonomists, that in a •couurry highly civilized :roll Improved like England, there must always be a tendeecy to reitnulant population. But so far were we from'eatleaeouring to correct that ten `,leneY, that we hid abandootat all checks av the wretched system of our poorNws in this country. n id by the equally . injurious praCtii:c of sub-letting which hid proved so dis .asterous to 'lie interests of Ireland. (Hear, hear.) If it were askse;t what good would this measure confer upon Ire - land, kte would say, the very greatest, provided the etni grat.un were strictly voluntary--.a condition without which Zle3 never would consent to soy measure of the kind. But • supposing the emigration to be voluntary on the 'tart of the population, and well-directed on the past of tho Govern ment, and that it were followed op. with regulations at home, calculated rather to check than, entourage the re oelundeney, he would then say. that a greater benefit could 'cartel}- be conferred upon any country. (Hear, hear.) Great good was to be expected. from. the increased intelli gence of the peomne who alltnieeistered parochial affairs, and the improved Igiowledge e of the country gentlemen of Ireland \vitt% respect to tbe • n of their estates. TO tiveir united exertions,, and to the operation of good 4 aevo, theeeutentry was to look for the ottly permanent re- Lief excessive population. Not that he would insinuate t:ait the country was at present uverpopulous in relation to its extent. No man could deny that in that view of the ques tion, England evae capable of suppem ting many uiore,and Ire land, perhaps, iu a still greater proportion. The , great evil was the want of a due proportion between the number of la betreers and the demand, for labour. But it was not to C owls alene that they were bound to look. There were other' Colonies as much in want of population. When they looked the evidence of Mr. Pringle as taken in the committee, they would find that he attributed the distresses at the Cape principally to the want •of labourers. New South Wedes was another, colony to which, notwithstanding its remoteness, we might look with great • confidericte That colony *as already capable of furnishing prn,lts Which had an exchangeable value, not only with the mother coun try, but in various parts of the Eastern Archipelagai. Site therefore held out .*seat temptations, notwith s t an di ng t h e .exteetne . difference in point of distance between her and dm other teelonies. Upon a review- of all the circuni ota.nees,'ho was bound to come to- the conclusiononot only that the plan of relieving the country by encouraging co lopization was beneficial in a direct way,- but that it was impossible to lay out capital with a better prospect of en serrieg a fair return than by sending our supernumerary po pulation to New South Wales. In fact, many parishes were so well aware of this, that they would willingly un elertake the expence of sending their oft'h poor, under a conviction that in the present state ) anti with the peculiar wants of, the colony, they could not expect any thing more profitable titan an export ofpopulation•—(Hear, hear.)— Nor was it in the home parishes ohmic that this truth Was felt and acknowledged. I n th e co l on i es them seloeo the inhabitants would he most willing to pay the expence of conveyance ) if the individuals were articled to them as servouts on going out, so great W a s the demand f or l a b our o f all kinds in those places. lie had encountered much scepticism in the course of those proceedings. It was natural that he should have done so, and therefore he did not complain. Nothing was more common or more easy than to charge those plans with be ing visionary which were still to be tried. But, whatever littargcs might be brought against the Plan which he would confess himself anxious to recommend, nothing could be more conclusive than the evidence by whieh its practica bility was established. Having thus dismissed the general subject, he now came to the Passefigers' Act, of which he had given notice for that day. It was with regret be hail beard that an Hon. Friend of his had expressed an in tention to oppose it. He spoke in the presence of many gentlemen who had been members of the Emig' ation Cool mittee, and under whose direction he had brought in a Bill to repeal the Passengers' Act. He would admit that this Act was objectionable, as its operation was to check emigration; but still he would have preferred the middle course, of qualifying and revising, instead of repelling the Act. The necessity of some such measure was to be inferred from the evidence which Government had received tm the sub ject.. There was a despatch from Sir Howard Douglas, which represented the starving and distressed condition in which many of the emigrants had arrived at Halifax,— Such was the effect of leaving unfortunate passengers to the consideration of those Who speculated in the transport. No one, he thought, who husked at the subject without prejudice could he willing to leave the ignorant persons who crowded to the'coasts of Ireland, either at the mercy of the captains with whom they sailed, or to their own un assisted discretion in providing for the voyage. The most calamitous results might be expected in either case,----nay, had actnallt resulted fr?in the operation of the present measure: The despatch of Sir James Ketnpt, also from - Halifax, alluded to the same distress and-misery which was noticed in that of Sir Howard Douglas. It was not from a speculative appreltensiun, but from a knowledge of these facts that he thought the old Bill ought to be re vived under certain modifications. The object of that mo• d i fic i tioa w o u ld be to establish a minimum of space and a ininimom of food, below which the emigrant should .not be supplied. The utility of such bad arisen from its h a rule Wild proved, not . merely by the disadvantages . ' which neg lect, but by the positive advantage with which it s adoption was attended. . Of two thousand individuals who wer e taken from Ireland: iu IB2h, when this law waster force, the health and comfort . Of th e e migrants was properly attended to. There were no deaths on the voyage, no sickness, nor w a s theme a siugle instance of crinie.—(Hea r, h e ar. ) — From the pap ers which were laid ou the table of the House,,and they, wer e many, the atuouut; of misery inflicted,upon un "NV Passengers by the want of some ppsitive regulation . with respect to the amount of space anti of filed, was greater t1 5 . 0 ' 1 Night he =Peeled. It was to prevent the recurrence such miseries that he ivas desirous to introduce a modified Pill, asking only for the establishment of a minimum with respect to then two itemt ant po i ate ._(H ea r, hear.)-- He was astonished, to hear ,that his lion. Friend • could tend t o oppose a Pleasure of- that nature. The United s ta t es had already- passed A.lotasuto to prevent the intro duction of migrants into that country except under certain: regulations. Our ow, Colonies would feel the benefit of so slight ail the,.etugrants themselves regulation io_ as this which . he proposed. and above a -; ould feel it, and the (T into!' of the country would w • consequence o f i t , to he more favourably disposed, in which_ h at he . was li is a_on. S_ disposed to anti the general - measure fro cipate so much good. He trusted th not object in the first instance to the bringing in of th e Bi ll, RS it was of .nunnent that no time should be lost. If it ?I'e iu tether hands more capable than he was of awaken , they-would se e n i ig the feelings and interests of the House, bo convinced that their deliberations had never ne ver been direct e d to . a question of greater importance. T with many difficulties he did not meanla it teas attended to deny, but its impot letoce was a reason for encountering those difficulties. If they wished that their colonies should become a source of wealth instead of:an , incumbrance , they must supply them with a portion of our own population. The e tiou which be contemplated was essentially voluntary igea- Fotuitieti upon that principle, it would be attended Ftth great advantage both all Vesjet:Ata ana the mother country. WithVti it toe measure must necessarily fall to tire teckiia. But he trusted that the attention of the 1 .1-t;iuse and of the country, which had been summoned to these considerations by the labours.. of. two successive Committees, would not only be vigorously applied to the subject, hut woulq...be strongly. influenced by the reciam*- wend:aims in which their Comtriitteo ht.d 'cdfattiith— (Hear, hear.)—The Right Hob. k3etf_inti'n ttoneluded by moving toe a ev o t l !ie report of Lieutenant-Colonel Cockbutir, .tied of the orders issued by the Colonial De partment in consequence of that report, on the sth of Ja tali*, 1827. 31r., BARING, jun., then addressed the House. We understood hint to say, that the repayment of any snits ad vanced to th e . Emigrants would be t`iittch Agee than was .generally anticipated; end to iio= cvri assertions he re ferred t.. 0 the -evidence tiven. by Mr. Benton before the Xmigratiou tNiUnittee. lie was convinced, that if the eutigrAion4yere conalueted upoo a suitable plan, and if the settlers could be placed not at a distance &ern the cul tivated part of the Canadas, but upon the reabeS lization, so as to be setaNta i r, after Oantrng tilers o\kii land, to earn autos leanttnetatton by W7 l .t , stl'ag for others, it would .reiptire too Vs374 , :tif:',lce from Government to support tha eettlioe nittr he had Once been sent out. Besides, even though there was not a possibility that he could sUPpert himself, it ought not to be forgotten inal; time Legislative Assembly of Canada had sTeetitied itself willing to give him assistance. If 'l!SiVerisnient would either give up oart of the Criesti land', or would part with the supremacy over them, the Legislative Assembly of Canada would provide for the support of every indigent person who might besent over into that province. From what he hail heard, he be lieved that there was greater tliflicUlly ekiserienceti in pre venting settlers from goltit, trtlii Canada into the United States, than in providing for them in that coreny. One of the gtSiitest objections to emigration is Canada wAs the tenure under which land was held in thaticolonv. here was a law passed several years ago to remove those objec tions, but he was sorry to say that it had never yet been carried into effect by the Governer nt. Mr. J. GRATTAN said, there were two Ways by which a system of ramigratien was to be carried on ; the first was by it grant of a million of money—tie other by. indi vidual speculation. Now, the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. W. Horton) had stated, that the money was to be merely a loan, and not to be hist to the country, but he thought it extieniel!, uthikely that the Government would ever : see a farthing. returned. Unless the Hon. Gentleman could se cure the co-operation of the Irish Gentry, all his attempts would be fruitless, and he would merely lead the country astray. Colonel DAVIES quite agreed in the principle, that if some arrangement could be Made which would induce the country to come forward, the most beneficial results might be expected, but soine such was absolutely necessary. Sir F. BURDETT rose simply for the purpose of stat ing, that he yielded to no one in the consideration that this question was vitally important, or, in the opinion which he entertained, that this way was the best, he might say the only way, of relieving the distress which prevailed in England and in-Ireland. He would beg leave to say, that the question was quite as much—indeed, he might say more, an English than .an Irish question. The present, however, was not the time to debate it, and he would merely State that the Non. Member deserved the warmest praise for the labour, 'the perseverance, and the ability he had displayed in bringing it forward. Mrs , SLANE'Y agreed entirely with the Hon. Baronet, that this was by tie means an Irish question, but one as closely connected with the welfare of England as any that could iweupy the attentir,e of Parliament. As regarded the subject of the Poor Laws of England, it would be his duty to bring this matter shortly before the House, and be would therefore abstain from making any observation upon it. Mr. LEICESTER avowed himself an enemy to Emi gration. which might indeed be termed a, system of statis tient suicide. If lie were asked what was to be done with a superabundant population, he would answer, employ them in improving and cultivating the waste 1 ands, which would give employment to themsands. Such cultivation was certainly impeded by barriers of no, ordinary difficulty --"-they were harriers of poor laws, tithes, and taxes . ; but 'remove them, and the advantages would-be of easy attain ment. He had himself paid . no less than 6,000/. for re claiming 100 acres of waste land, and it would not have cost him more than half the sum if it had not gone into his Majesty's Exchequer. Mr. BENETT observed, that to hint it appeared no elm, of money could effect the object which the Hon. Member (Mr. W. Horton) had in view. Some men argued that man was an animal not only useless but per nicious to the soil, and that he ought to be got rid of by any means. There were, however, some countries where it Was saidse-by shallow politicians it might be—send us your people, and we will receive them. Could we not then catch wine of those .wild Irish—those wretched starving creatures—and sell them to those countries—a measure which would certainly be more judicious. than to pay men for emigrating.—(llear.)—Why was not the experiment tried in the case of the,convicts sentenced to seven years' transportation by our criminal tribunals ? Instead of which after a, residence of .three or four Years en board the hulks, those persons were turned , adrift on society, when, even where their conduct ,might have been exemplary while on board the.hulks, they were certain of falling into company with their former associates, to recommence their criminal pursuits, and ultimately get hanged. From transporting that description of persons, a great good, instead of evil, would result to the country. That indeed would be a Va luable experiment—very different from the proposed plan to banish from the country that peculiar description of the population whose exertions in it were of value. Colonel WOOD quite agreed with the Hon. Baronet, the Member for Westminster, that no . other question—the Catholic Question not excepted, was of so much importance as that then under consideration. He should not, how ever, proceed further to discuss it, as the subject was not then fairly before the House,—(ear, hear)—and par ticularly as notice had been given of the intention to intro duce a Bill on the subject on the 13th of this month, before which day he begged of Hon. Members to make themselves masters of i:. He (Col. 'W.) should not be doing justice to the labouring people of England, were he not to express his conviction that the improper use of the Poor Laws had had considerable effect in producing the present distress. To prove that he should cite one instance only. In Harrow, Middlesex, the peasantry were put up to auction by the overseers. A single man they offered for 51. per week ; a married man with a wife, for 7s. a week ; and other married men, with families, at a proportionate increase. That disgraceful proceeding had, however, been discon tinued. For the reasons he had stated, he hoped his Right lion. Friend's measure would be adapted. Mr. JOHN SMITH, having been- a Member of the Committee of last year, felt competent to speak the opinion of the Committee upon the conduct of the Hon. Member. He then drew an animated picture of the distress of the poor of Ireland, and of those unhappy persons who had thrown themselves on the shores of Scotland from that country, and referred to the situation of One family, con sisting of a man and his wife, the whale amount of food consumed by whom in a year was not in value more than 255. or ;28s. What the description of that food was which could be procured for such a sum—fit for the use of human beings—be was at a loss to conceive. One effect of the proposed plan-would be"to remove from the neighbourhood of Glasgow alone 1,000 poor families. The extent of the perpetual emigration to our western counties from Ireland, was well known to most Hon. Members ; even to the re mote county of Sussex they had penetrated in immense numbers... Under. existing circumstances, English ca pital would not go to-.lreland. While here capital could not be used to any advantage, no man would lend it on Irish property, even though tempted by the . sum of 5 per. cent. per annum ; for this reason, they might lose their principal, and could not be very cer tain of the interest. He was one of those that could not for a moment doubt that if Ireland was pacified—if Ire land were restored to her rights—English capital would flow into it, and consequently its population would find employment,—(Hear, hear.)—But so long as the people of that country . should remain in their present state of misery ; so long as the system of turning out of doors several poor families in order to make one large farm—so long would it b e impossible to look for relief from the visitation of Ire land's population. Mr. WOOLRYCHE WHITMORE should now merely observe, that two points would require the utmost conside ration--the means of filling up the vacuum created by the emigration, and also the means of supplying the large sums of money necessary for carrying the plan into effect. Sir JAMES GRAHAM begged the Right Hon. the Secretary for . the. Colonies would favour him by saying, was it the intention of his Majesty's Government to renew the Passengers' Ad, notwithstanding the Report of last Session? • Mr. Secretary HUS.KISSON .felt in common with his Right Hon. Friend near him, that there was no matter to which it was desirable to call the attention of Parliament earlier than that entitled to by the Hon. Baronet. It was (as we understriod the Right Hon. Gentleman) the intention of his Majesty's" Government to introduce the measure, with some alterations 'in its miaor details. lie had only risen to answer the question of the Hon. Baronet; but should take that opportnnity to say that no time should he lost in laying on the table all the papers connected with the oitthieGt. With respect to the : question, of itself, be should repeat, that every possible degree of infurmatiun eon meted with it should be laid before the Heuae. The motion was then agreed to. Mr. WILMOT NORTON requested that leave be given to bring in a Bill to regulate the conveyance of pis• sengers in merchant vesp!.% ftbt' ebb rot - E k3r tice UnitSd Kinge6w, tb ibi : eign parts. Mr. HUME felt opposed to the Bill, because, instead of encouraging and facilitating emigration, it checked it to a great degree:- If Hon. Gentlemen were to look to the report of the Committee of five years since, they would find that disease teas 'wafted 'to the shores of the Colonies in as great a proiortioa as last rearez-th?.t. tmtteluntly no teatti!-t MIS, we sliOtild 4part from the recommendation of th 6 Committee. Therefore, before he should give his sanction to the repeal of the Bill of last year, he should re quite some information. Mr. 'Secretary HUSKISSON' protested against the in. troduetion of any abstract principles into the discussig; which 'night intexfere Vith thkt prltielpits of humanity...... h'eal-.) The Legislature was bodnd to 'prot ec t those who wer e n o t tupable of Alefentling themielves. Th e Hon. Gentleman (M r . H ume ) seemed te think that iio inconvenience had arisen frohi our having last }''bar re= scinded all regulations respecting the state of merchant ves sels carrying passengers. He should not then go into all the heart-rending and disgusting details that had been re. ceived at the Colonial Office, illustrative of the conse quences, and of either the nature or the extent of which, the Hon. Gentleman, he was sure, bad little idea. With one extract he begged leave to trouble the House : it was from a letter of that Gallant Officer (Sir Jani6 empt), who with in much credit to himself and satisfaction to the country, governed the colony of Halifax. These were his words :—" The ship James left Ireland for Halifai with 160 passengers, fiveof whom died on the passage; thirty five men left at Newfoundland, unable from illness to proceed: The remaining 120, as well as the whole of her crew, arrived at Halifax, labouring under typh us fever."--(Hear, hear.) The clinihtc of the Colony at which they arrived was healthy, and the time favourable ; nottVithistancling Which, out of a population of 7,000 souls, 800 died last year of the disesse thus introduced by the Irish emigrants. Nor was this Bill without precedent, for there Were already in existence laws for the regulation of gaols add public transports. The Passage Act imposed restrictions on the captains of vessels taking out emigrants —such as, that they should take care to carry out a sufficient quantity of provisions and water, and other re gulations for the prevention of those fevers on board ship which were so injurious to the passengers, and to those countries into which they were received. If the House would not make some regulations of this kind, the countries to which 'those emigrant's Were usually borne, would esta blish prohibitory restrictions in their own defence. All he aked . was, that the Bill should he read. now, and its imperfections diScussed on thesecotid readin'g. The Hon. Mr. STANLEY, as one of the Committee that had lagreed to abolish all restrictive regulations on passage vessels, felt himself bound to state, that he bad concurred in the opinion of the Committee; but, from in formation since received, lie was inclined to think that opinion erroneous. He could see nothing objectionable in moderate regulations for such vessels. Mr. WARBURTON had no wish to oppose the mea sure, but was anxious to get some time to receive informa tion from Ireland—if emigration was good for any thing it was for its cheapness. Mr. ROBINSON had in his possession much corres. pondence from the Colonies, which would prove the ne cessity of the repeal of last year's Act—in particular a paper printed in St. 'John's, Newfoundland, which stated that a vessel carrying 160 Irish Emigrants had arrived there in a state bordering on starvation. He implored the /louse to' give the measure its deepest consideration, and the Hon. Member (Mr. Hume) not to oppose the Bill. Sir J. GRAHAM defended the conduct of the Com• mittee that had recommended the abolition of the Restric tion Act. •lsrd n ' the was then giving to bring in the Bill, and it was read a . first time. Mr. WILMOT HORTON postponed_.bis intended Bill for enabling parishes to mortgage their Poor Rates for the EMigration of Paupers. Mr. HARVEY moved for a return of the number of Subpsonas ad respondenilum issued from the. Exchequer Office ; as also, the number of appearances which have been. entered during the last six years. Mr. GEORGE LAMB brought up the Report of, the Committee on the repeal of the Test and Corporation Acts. The Report, recommending the repeal of, these Acts, having been read, . . Lord JOHN RUSSELL moved for leave to bring in a Bill pursuant to the resolutions of the:Beport. The debate on the Bill might be taken when the Bill was going into, Committee. Leave given, and the Bill read a Irst time. The Noble Lord stated hisintentiun of moving, the second readin g some day next week , and carrying it into Commit tee on Monday se'nnfght.: On the Order of the Day feithe second, reading of the Chapel (Ireland) Bill, Mi. HENRY ORATTAN expressed his disapprobation of the Bill for the erection of a Chapel of Ease in Kilkeny, county Dublin. The Chapel was not wanted. Mi. MOORE stated, that the Vestry of Monkstown, the perpetual Curate, and the Rector of the parish, had all agreed on the expediency of erecting the proposed Chapel of Ease. Sir JOHN NEWPORT observed, that the concurrence of a Vestry in Ireland was a criterion of the necessity of the proposed Chapel. He trusted the Hon. Member would agree to postpone the Bill. Mr. MOORE postpOned the second reading of the Bill to "Friday. On Mr. MOORE's snoring the Order of the Day for the second reading of the Bill for allowing the use of .fire on board steam-vessels in Ireland, Mr. HUME objected 'to such petty legislation. Why not, if the Bill was good in its principle, apply it.to . the whole country. Mr. MOORE said, that it did extend to the whole• of Ireland, and he was not aware that the disabilities it was intended to remove existed any where else. The Bill was then committed for Thursday next. EAST RETFORD DISFRANCHISEMENT BILL. The House then resolved itself into a Committee on the East Retford Disfranchisement Bill. Nathaniel Buxton, examined by Mr. - TENNYSON.-1 am a burgess of Retford. I certainly remember four elec tions, having been - a voter thirty years. I don't recollect in what year Mr. Osbaldestone's election took place ; butl • recollect I got no money then. I voted for Mr. Marsh. The reason why I got no money was, that they did not give any.—(A laugb.)At the next elaition I got two twenty guineas. One of them was put in at my window, and the other Leadbitter gave me. In 1820 I got forty guineas also. At the lait election I was asked for my vote by Mr. Thirake and Mr. Foljambe. When they asked me for it, they said, " all shall be right." I answered that I should vote as I pleased. I had often beard that expression they made'use of, at Retford, but never knew the meaning of it. —(A laugh.) By several Members.—That expression, of " all shall be right," was sail to thirty or forty in my presence. They may have understood it if they liked. 7 —(A laugh.)—l. can't say that the reason I received nothing at Mr. Marsh's. election was there being no polling. I promised to vote for both candidates—(A laugh)—but I did not receive a farden. William Grant examined—l am a Burgess of Retford. have been so thirty years, and have never received election money after the election. I know Mr. Mason of Retford, but can't say that 1 ever received any thing of him. I voted for the Duke of Newcastle's interest. Mr. Mason is his agent there. I may have received some from him. I can't say whether it was 20 or 40 guineas. I remember, in 1820, when Evans and Crompton were elected. After that election I received some bills. lean% say. what amount they were of. I did not receive any at Mr. Oshaldestone's election. I received a present then, but I did not know where it came from. A man called several times to (rive it me; when he gave it me he said nothing,—(A It was after the elections that we used to receive the pre-, sents. I never received any of that kind at any other time. I mean bank notes when I say bills. I took care of them when I got them.—(A laugb.)—l put them into practice.--(Laughter.) By Mr. FERGUSSON. —He had certainly seen Mr. Alderman Parker, of East Bedard, since he had come. up to Loridon. The witness was ordered to withdraw. • Mr. SYKES objected to the last question, on the ground that the Committee had no evidence before them as to who - Mr. Alderman Parker was. Mr. TENNYSON was astonished at this objection, seeing that Mr. Alderman Parker was already.before the House, and was a petitioner on this very occasion. That petition was on the table.--(Crisra of " Withdrawn, with drawn.")—No; it was not withdrawn, though the Hon. Member, Mr. Sykes had withdrawn his notice upon it.-- Now, the fact was, that he (Mr. Tennyson) had been ap prised since he commenced this, examination, that Mr. Alderman Parker had been dealing with these witnesses, to influence them not to give their evidence honestly. Mr. Aldgrmin WAITHMAN knew nothing about Mr. Alderman Parker: He was most unwilling to take a lead ing part in sending the last witness to keep that gentleman company in Newgate, who was before the Committee on , the preceding yet Wooing ouch step Was not taken, they would be doing great injustice to Mr. pox, and to their own character. Lord MfGENT thought his Hon. Friend, Mr. Ten uyson, quite justified in the question he was about to put resprtipg Mr. 'Alkvenan Parker, when interrupted. Mr. F. PALMER, howeveF reluetanetik, iii th€ abientte of some other mover, would move the witness's COM. mitment. Mr. Secretary PEEL was averse to such a proceeding. Mr. F. PALMER had no wish to press his motion on the Committee, and therefore withdrew it. Mr: TENNY - SOP( thought he had now done enough to t!te !hedge, he had gtVeri *al proposer to suspend these proceedings) of proVing his case at the Bar Of the House. He was, however, in the hands of the Com mittec;, and would be guided entirely by their advice as to whether he should proceed any further on the present oc casion.. r4r. b:I3AIMEg was by no means satisfied from the evidence which had been taken, that any such ease had , been made out as could warrant the disfranchisement of East Retford. Mr. VE L- RGUSSON; whert he first altered neon this matter in the tottitnittee above etaiir, Nail ent e rtained th 6 same opinion as to the general inexpediency of these pro ceedings, with that which had just been avowed by the lion. Member for Corfe Castle. Since the case had been proceeded with at the . har of this Committte, his own opinion was entirely changed.—(Hear, hear.) With re spect to the reference which his Hon. Friend (Mr. 'fenny ,onj was So Willing to make to the pleasure of the Com mittee, as tb whether he should call any more witnesses, it were surely much better . that his Hon. Friend, who must be better acquainted with the strength and the bear ings of his case, should exercise his own discretion in that Particular. Mr. Secretary PEEL agreed in thinking that it would be much better for the Hon. Gentleman to exercise his own discretion in the matter. Mr. SYKES contended that they were proceeding with some degree of irregularity. Mr. LUMLEY should feel great pleasure whenever Mr. Foljambe should be able to attend, in enabling the Com mittee to avail itself of that gentleman's evidence on many important particulars. Sir ROBERT WILSON moved,, that Mr. Hotlgkinson be called in. Mr. Hodgkinson was called in accordingly, and exa mined by Sir R. WlLS*N—Witness.was a Magistrate of East Retford, and had not voted during all the last two and thirty years at any election for that Borough, except ing the last. At the election a little more than S 2 years ago, he had received 20 guineas from one of the candidates six or seven weeks after his return. The witness was ordered to withdraw. Mr. TENNYSON having been so lately applied to, to determine on the course which be had to pursue, felt no difficulty whatever in saying that he should now chic hisca=e. Mr. GEORGE I3ANKES reserved to himself the right of calling other witnesses tl'ian those that might be produced at the har upon the present occasion. Mr. Secretary PEEL also reserved to himself the right to consider the whole case, upon carefully reading over the evidence. Edward Brwn was then called in and examined by Mr. TENNYSON—What situation di) you hold in the Bo rough of East Bares] ?—I am Town Clerk. Did you ever receive election money ?—I appeal to the Cliair:nan whether I ought to answer that question. The witness was here ordered to withdraw. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that the witness was not bound to answer any .questioh which tended to criminate himself. Sir ROBERT WILSON expressed his surprise at the doctrine laid down by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman. His own feelings and opinion; •as to the power of Parlia• ment, led most decidedly to the decision that the witness must answer. Mr. LITTLETON was surprised to hear the Attorney- General utter such a doctrine as they had just heard. Me was surprised to hear him, the Law Officer of the Crown, so ignorant of the laws of Parliament.—(Hear, hear.) — His ignorance, however, was a trifle compared with the contempt of the priVileges of that Mothe which Ms doctrine involved.; Sir C. BURRELL thought the witness was bound to answer all questions, and he hoped be would be told that he might do so without fear of prosecution. The ATTORNEY GENERAL conceived that he was entitled to stand up' and defend himself after the unfounded, coarse, and wanton attack made upon him.—(Hear, hear.) He saw nothing in the opinion he had expressed to warrant the Hon. Member in vomiting forth his anger.—(Hear, and laughter.)—He repeated that, without the promise of protection from the House the witness was not bound to answer a question tending to criminate himself. Mr. Secretary PEEL, Mr. S. RICE, and Mr. LITTLE. TON, rose at the same moment. The calls for Mr. Peel and Mr. Rice continued for some time, when Lord SANDON appealed to the Chair, and the decision was in favour of Mr. S. RICE, Who said that he should be sorry to stand in the way of the Right Hon. Secretary. Mr. Secretary PEEL only availed himself of the cour tesy of the Right - Hon - . Member for Linierick in order to put an end to the discussion which his Right Hon. Friend (the Attorney-General) had raised in consequence of the attack which he conceived had been made upon his profes sional character. He did not think that any thing that had hem said on. either side called for the observations which hid been made. He certainly thought that this ease dif fered front the ordinary cases of law, and that the witness was not entitled to refuse answering the questions put to him ; but thathe was protected from legal consequences as to any thing he might sayfor the furtherance of public jus tice, in conformity with one of the orders of the lionise, passed in 1818. Mr. WYNN observed that the reason of the difference .between that House and a Court of Law, with respect to evidence, was, that whatever evidence was given in a Court of Law would be evidence afterwards against the witness, Whereas what was taken in that House as evidence, could only be given elsewhere by permission of that House. _ Mr. LITTLETON 'disclaimed making any remark upon the manner in which the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite had indulged in that irascibility of his temper for. which he (Mr. L.) had given so little, cause. All that he had said was, that the Right Hon. Gentleman was igno rant of the practice of Parliament in consequence of au opinion which he had given. Mr. TWISS submitted, that it was not' in the power of that House to put a stop to the course of any Court of Justice, by restricting its members fro& giving evidence. The SPEAKER rose to *make a fete observations in . consequence of what had fallen. from the. Hon. Member who had just sat down. He had understood him to say, ,that any. Member of that llouse might be called upon to give evidence in a Court of Law of the proceedings of that House. •Now, there was no doubt on his (the .SPeaker's) mind—and it was time he should be set right -if he was wrong,—that no Member of that House could give . evidence of their proceedings, without the direct or implied permission of the House.—(Hear, hear, hear.) — No one hut a Member had a right to hear what passed in. 'the House, and the evidence, therefore, of no one else could' .be received-as to their proceedings.—(Hear, hear.) The witness was then called in, - and informed he was 'protected by the orders of the House against the legal con sequences of any evidence he gave at the Bar. He theti-stated, in answer to Mr. Tennyson, that he bad received election. money in 1818 and 1820. He found two letters at • his house, inclosing 20/. each, but from whom they came, he knew not. • Mr. Secretary PEEL.—You speak as though the pay ment of this money was customary only among the lower Order of freemen. How came it to be sent to a person in your station ?—At that time I was a poor clerk in the office in which I have now the honour to be a partner. By Mr. SPRING RICE.—He had never heard that it . was. the practice for a losing Member not to pay. It was the impression on his mind that there were forty voters who did not take money. By Alderman WAII ; HMAN.—There was a general ex pectation of receiving money amongst the freemen. .By Mr. J. WOOD.—When witness had the interview with Sir H. Wilson, he - told him the electors expected money. Some questions were put by Mr. G. BANKES, which were not of any consequence. Jonathan Bankes was a freeman of Retford for 29 years, and witnessed several elections in that time. Has received money, but did not know whether it was election money._ (The witness then went on fencing so, that he was ordered to withdraw; and when called in was warned to answer directly. )_.He admitted then that he bad received election money as often as three times. William Hadson, Thomas Appleby, William Clarke, and Joseph "'Marwi c k, were e xamined, and gave testimony as to the practice of receiving money for votes at East Retford. William Leadbitter, the next witness, denied any know ledge of th e e l ect i ons r ef er red to, or of the practices imputed to the parti es concerne d ; he had never received any mo ney-..-never knew of any having been offered. William Newton, clerk to a solicitor, concerned in those elections, had several conversations with Lesdhitter, in which he made admissions totally unconnected with his evidence, as stated above. The witness was ordered to withdraw. Lord NUVENT observed, that title witness not only con- . . tradicted the witness that immediately iiteeetitd him, but Hodgson, who bad given testimony directly oppoded to that tendered by the last witness. William Leadbitter-was then called in. The short-hand writer having read over the evidence of the last . witness ) Leadbitter was e±aMitiedj and denied the whole con versation related by the former witness. The witness was then ordered to withdraw, but nut to depart from the precincts of the House. - Hodgson was called in and examined. The evidence of the witness Newton, relating to Hodg son, having been read, The witness denied that he had eter 'fed-dyed any money from,Fox on account of Crompton. The witness having withdrawn, , The CHAIRMAN put the question, that the Committee report progress, and ask leave to sit again, which was agreed to. The blouse re:nutted, and It was resolVed, that on Thurs day next, the House would resolve itself into a Committee ,on the East Retford Disfranchisement Bill, and the wit nesses were ordered to be in attendance. Thd Mutiny Bill *as read a second time, and ordered to be Cordmitad On Thursday. The Marine Mutiny Bill was read a second time, and committed for Thursday. On the motion of Lord ALTHORP, the Bill for the re peal of the Sacramental Teat was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Friday eu'nnight, the Noble Lord having intimated his intention to propose going ibto Committee on the Bill on the Monday following. Sir N. W. RIDLEY moved for returns of the number of country bankers' notes stamped from October, 1824, to February, 1826; also for similar accounts of the notes stamped in Scotland, in the years 1925, 1826, and 1827, distinguishing the value of the notes stamped ; and 'for-re turns of the amount of composition payable by the Bank of England in lieu of stamp duties during. the years 1823, 1824, and 1825.--Adjourned at a Quarter past One o'Clock. FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE. FRENCH PAPERS. (From the Gazette de France of Monday, March 5.) (PRIVATE CORRESPONDENCE.) MADRID, FEB. 21.—The Madrid Gazette of this day contains the followim , article : " The enemies of the tranquillity and happiness of Spain,- fruitful in resources which bear the stamp of malice against its Government, spare no pains to combat it at.d to obstruct its progress, which they might effect by depreciating its credit. It is with these views that some 'infamous pant phlets have been published out of the Peninsula, whiclews will leave in the oblivion to which the public indignation condemns them; and that articles have been inserted in some foreign journals intended to censure the acts of the principal functionaries of the Administration. They are all 'written.by Spaniards, though they endeavour to disguise themselves ; they have been drawn up out of the kingdom, though they are inserted in the journals under the head of Spain, and in the form of private correspondence. Their object is the same—viz. the ruin of the Government ; they are all actuated by the same desire of revenge. " Some Spaniards, offended at not having obtained what they desired, or at having lost what they unjustly enjoyed, forge all these shameful diatribes, in which they attack , sometimes the principal depositaries of power, sometimes only a part of them, to give the appearance of a kind of im partiality in their satires, or because their hatred is exclu sively directed against certain persons. The aggressors in this perfidious combat make use of all kinds of prohibited arms. • Disfigured facts, malicious suppressions, and calum nies,,: - are the means which they employ. If' these pamphleteers had any modesty, their ,ituation would hinder them from writing against the persons by whom they think themselves offended. The invectives of a man who is offended are ineffectual to obtain the credit which he desires, *and are an authentic testimony of the ignoble con dition of his mind. Let the defamers learn that they are . known . , and they must expect to be one day unmasked, to obtain the complete reward of the!: ignominy. • - "This language, which is unusual in our .oflicial journal, and so unusual to real statesmen, has made a certain sensa tion among persons who are in a situation to be acquainted with the motives of such an article, and the critical position of the autherg. At present I confine myself to this reflec tion, which I shall be.able to develop in the sequel. "" No news from Turkey." SHIPPING INTELLIGENCE. LIVERPOOL. MoxiciA - r, MARCH 3.—t-ligh water seven • min. pact 12 ri'cluck.—Wind N.N.W.—Arrived the Roman, Gunnell, from New York, with cotton, Indian corn, flaxseed, &e. ; General Brock, Priestrnan, from Pernambuco, with cotton, a filed 13th Jan. ; Bee, M'Guffee, from Wigton, with ditto; Lady Maxwell, M'Call, from ditto, with ditt• ; Neptune, Milmore, from Alaryport, with oats; Lovely Nelly, Cowan, from Belfast, with wheat ; Corsair (steamer) Goodwin, from ditto, with sundries; Shef f ield (steamer), Richards), from ditto, with ditto ; Highfield, BroWn, from Dublin, with ditto ; William Huskissen (steamer), Lindsay, from Glasgow, with ditto ; Eclipse, Milligan, from ditto, with ditto ; Matthews, Graham, from Kirkcud bright, with ditto ; Queensberry; Ewart, from Dum fries, with ditto ; Solway (steamer), - Wylie, from Newry, with ditto; Charlotte, Leask, from Galway, with ditto; Elizabeth, Harrison, from Killough, with. ditto ; James Holmes, Kneale, from flit; isle of Man, with ditto; Brisk, Donaldson, *mu Kirkwall, with ditto; Fairy, --, from Hull, with oil, &c. ; Comet (steamer), Phillips, from Dublin, with the mail.--Three brigs off at half-past five o'clock. - CLEARED OUTWARDS—The Lareh, , Gibaut, for Jersey ; Fly, Carlisle, for Terceira; Christian, Christian, for An tigua; Lemmer, Tauimes, for Embden; Ann, Steward, for Messina. Telegraph-office, March 3.-9. 15. a.m. Wind at Holyhead this morning N.N.W. blowing fresh. —Brig, with Messrs. John Bibby and Co.'s private sig nal, west of floating-light, at 9a. in. The Roman A. S. passed Holyhead yesterday morning ; she is now off the floating-light. Half-past 12, a brig west of the floating light has just made Mr. Sam. Richardson's private signal. Two brigs off Holyhead ; Wind N.N.W. fresh breeze.— Two ships, outward-bound, off Point of Air at half-past 10, a.m. did not show their numbers. The Shamrock, with prohibited machinery on board, is released, and will sail the first fair wind. At 50 min. past 4, one brig west of the floating-light, homeward bound. • EAST INDIA. Yesterday the despatches were closed at the East India House, and delivered to the Pursers of the following ships, 'vii..l--Macqueen; Capt. James Walker, and William Fairlie, Capt. Thomas Blair, for Madras and China. The Warren Haitings, Mason, was spoken with by the Earl of Egremont, Johnson, which sailed from the Cape the 4th of August. About the Isth or 16th of August, lat. 32. South, long. 55. East, the Earl of Egremont lay to for 16 hours during a gale, and on the 18t1i, two days after wards, the Warren Hastings crossed her stern, and was steering to the northward ; the Earl, of Egremont kept to theentward, ' and with' difficulty reached the Mauritius, Aug. 29. The West Monsoon prevailed far six weeks afterwards, and it is supposed the Warren Hastings must have preeecded to a Madagascar port for water; the Warren Hastings stated she was all well, and bonnd to Madras with troops. The Maas, Teves, from Batavia has arrived off Dover. The Thule, Hillier, from Sumatra, arrived at Marseilles. MADEIRA, VER. 1.-Arrived the Lady Holland, Snell, from Portsmouth, and was to sail on the 10th for Aladras. OUTWARD-BOUND SHtrs.—Passengers per his Majesty's s hip William Fairlie, to Madras and China, despatched yesterday :—Mrs. Lushington, Mrs. Fraser, Mrs. Doug las, Mrs. Mackenzie, Mts. Shoolbread, Miss Bird, Miss Stirling, Miss Seymour ; Colonel Fraser, Hon. Company's Service; Lieutenant Mackenzie, ditto; Major Farquhar son, his Majesty's Ist Foot ; Captain Dncke, ditto 46th Regiment ; . Captain Armstrong, ditto 45th Foot; ,Licut. Johnson, ditto Ist ditto; Lieutenant Stamford, ditto ditto; Lieutenant Codd, ditto 48th ditto; Lieutenant Egan, ditto ditto ; Adjutant Richardson, ditto Ist Foot ; Quartermas ter Shoolbread, ditto 45th ditto; Ensign Roebuck, ditto 48th ditto; Ensign Fumell, ditto Ist ditto; Ensign Web ster, ditto ditto; William Douglasi, :Esq., Civil Service; Mr. Dickson, ditto ; Mr.' Fraser, ditto; Mr. Smith, ditto; Messrs. Hawkins, Fermat, Moore, Ditmess, Groute, Wal ker, Balfour, Holmes, Macqueen, Ireland, CoOgreve , and Gordon, Cadets ; and two Military Officers , w hose names are not yet known. Sir S. SHEPHERD, the Lord Chief Baron of Scotland, transacted business yesterday at the Treasury. The Bishop of ROCHESTER, Sir H. TAYLOR, and Sir T. ACLAND, visited Mr.' HUSKISSON yesterday. The Chief Magistrate of Police, and the Principal Magistrates of the different Police-offices, made a report to Mr. Secretary Plum, at the Home Office, yester day, of the state of the Police in their respective districts of the metropolis. The Earl of WESTMORLAND has been indis posed for some. time past at his residence in Grosvenor apace. His Lordship is attended by Sir H. HALTOM). Aril vil. MAILS. Due. I Attired. : , A ,:::: A ,,,.. 4 , 1 , ~:": L FTH ' : ' : l ll ,,, fib liad dirg .; ''''''''''''''''' 9 Brazil ... 1 Dublin o pande r , 0 0 Lisbon r 0 France • 0 n Malta .....«........ 0 Gotteriburgh 1 0 Mexico .. . . ''''' 1 ' Waterford7..«.... 0 Guerngcy . & J ersey. 0 A V,' M k LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, AIARCII 5, 1515. A long debate took place, last night,ia the ha" of Commons on matters connerted with Emigre' ttiOur American Colonies. - Mr. W. HORTON t . dressed the Divan at, great length, and displayd i minute acquaintance with the subject. It is ono. the greatest difficulty, and it is'painfel to thigh t s l so many practical objections exist to the diffe theories which have been submitted to To be an effective remedy for air excessive and employed papulation, it is very clear that Emit don ninsf be conducted on a truisteltrensive se and in conjunction with some legislative• me* which shall counteract the natural tendency of F . lotion to fill up a vacuum produced by /Mir oti eatne than a diminution in the means of hutnan • sistence. Peehaps it would,bc bole; not_to throw on ro gration the whole burden of the existing evils: construction of public works` `to' Oectipad for a period of years, might be brought to its aid, e? ere a generation had passed away, moral and dentin( restraints, enforced for a time' by legislati et.actments, might prevent the . recurrence Qf th evils which, now perplex alike the apeculations . the practical statesman, and of the political econow It is, however, impossible to approach the anbi withouc feeling_the paral3iritig infhieice of that happy dismeMberment of our country into:religi socts--where the dominant persuasion exercise intolerant and irritating supremacy, which has centuries succeeded.in.making unhappy Irelani curse to that empire;the brightest gem in the crJ of which, might and would otherwise be, the E 1 raid of our sister Isle. 444 But to- leave this heart-rending subject, 4nd grapple with a formidable foe, though - one Iliad i tied—let us consider how our plan vreuld ; Iv It is evident from the report of the StoCkExchat4 and the amount of the Three per Conti., that cap? is redundant, as well as population. It is also cRt that large capitalists (from the necessary. dirninutO, of competition). draw the largest returns from th outlay ; mid-will .any one pretend that there is f enough of individual ' shrewdness in this great d to discover a profitable investment for one, two,! five millions, if Government would lend the mono We should say that 10 or 20 per cent. could I easily cleared by persons possessed of so fonei4labli capital. We heartily deprecate the ,return of that int , / Spirit for chimerical speculation, which distinguish the year 1825; but in the prevent state-of the fud we are satisfied that' capital could not be so aelci ° tageously employed as in the intersection of the and fertile counties of England and Iriland canals—(not the ditches, which bear thatname; • but by wide and magnificent canals, capable of b' ing on their surface the fleets of /3ritain,' sup even to that which a well-judged munificence . bestowed on the Northern part of thia Island. The most rigid theorist, or the most sceptical ill vidual who vainly and wilfully rejects all experie hut that of his own short life, must admi that ill toll on the transit of goods will pay the i n terest the outlay, no pearl or minizig speeulavios (c 5 lated by their very success to depreciate the art ' of their search) can be compared to 'one whr realizing a fair, interest, would leave Engli and Ireland intersected with an equival for those broad and naivigable Fivers, wl3 are the glory of any regnin, and 'whicha , FroVidence has impartially withheld from a coup otherwise enjoying its full share of blessing and sperity, in its exemption ' - from die ear thqual plagues, and pestilences of other lauds. Sup posing check given to . the recurrence of overflowing population in Ireiand, by the. Sub ting Act now before the House—ike..are- sati9i that with the favor and support of 'Governm under the adVice of their own surveywrs, such we might be profitably engaged in by priiate individu or companies, in different parts of the country, s gradual discontinuance of which at the,end of ten twenty years; would leave the survi'ingrpartion the hordes, now. issuing frc m their native bogs, eit l •emalgamated- with an industrious people, or rnabl to - return easy and comfortable in their Circumstance' to rent fa rms , an d i ntro d uce pr u d en ti a l h a bit amongst those scenes which they quitted in enise r and disgust. With this plan of relief, EmigratiOn migha hand in hand; and, when . c,ondneted:on,e scale, some return, " either in malt or in Meat, might be expected by Government for the expel ( ' incurred, which would .evidently be in an inve l ratio to the extent of shipping required.: But, though some relief may be practicable in tI case of the half million of sufferers now in existent' no resources can meet the periodical recurrence such distress; and any plan is vain and futile whit does not embrace the cutting off the sources of tl evil, which otherwise will rear its hydra head, I ' . all are involved in one commit' ruin. A..*tatesans' like a surgeon, must perform; without flinching, operation which necessity requires ; and ; .if the mates of an Irish cabin are rescued from etarrati by the purse of the English natien, the iCxecutiii have a right, not only to demolish the vacated sad of misery, but to take steps that it shall 'never reared again, to give birth t o f res h v i c ti ms of mi a fei tune and crime. The French Papers received this morning coil tain no news deny interest; neither de the Germat vissrlis, FEB. 22.--Metallignee, 90 5-16 ; Bttnk She 103 1- They write from Madrid, under date of the 19t1 of July, that thirty-seven Intendants of Province or Comptrollers of the Finances, are going to turned off, baying been implicated in the affair Marco del Pont. The Portuguese who are in ill depot of Larico have been . in a state of riot at 0 lahera and Servera, against the inhabitants of the' towns, and a number of persons have been kill and wounded. The Government have sent troof' to quell the riot. The Treasurer, General D/ fttsPAR RoMISA, has been replotted by M. GeICOr . ROTA ; he is a ccuse d of . not . liaving paid the pe lions to the widows and other unfottunate person, It has-been stated in sonde of Ole public p r in ,,, that BOLIVAR was, at the lis t mul arrival from 805 1, seriously ill. We are happy, weVer, to erst that letters have been received up to die 22d r. ceml stall Jam :Alan wki( "'Can with 4111 D. Noun the I lqtje , T ritia v /l Ilast , Aug expe 17th itgait alln `ei `nt; prat* .aria Bon and 'bad that rece ;' inter port the thou "*"'"•dro 411 , 4 the 7 it!. • V , inter . Lea • has t‘i-Alpy 07 the 0414 . ; , we it 19 not A ec Chi . Qre f) , , can, • 4' ss A er • • I .44 , Afri 101 ..^. nd ft:o Foe boa ••••••• FOC ISt ii9t not Pwr wai reti be.9l 9 of ft rz-, :t • ttn ' 9 co, -t ft t - a mai pre 7• 1 ` , 1% nob ,Dk• Ret Dw- Jew plel the latt tare inel (th, and Bin and GI - 1 ciet ] T h at the tiro the ma pre Pr° we the De, affa Boi still ma Ma Ma • Ma .'gyp Ap Ap Ap 313, ity A')