The Sun. — London, England, 1819-03-02 00:00:00

o itY , :end° R VII ; WO Ilt el : lai r) 0 O D' i tt ec , bCI Jefej \cXk itece s ar 1 actin that the House should have the benefit t't 11- " g on a Report drawn from the fullest ttarces. of information, and by the ablest men that could. be collected. On these grounds, he trusted the [louse would not think that he wished n '' iitt ill ee PC o d e e lyinfl uiry by con fi ning it to one. Com` an i n i His. only object was to pre vent t ttrY being done to the laws of the coun _TY, hY passin g a general and premature con tiat t i t ii srievthei r ttriperm them, before having ascer list ficien c i es . Fi e should be ' happy to en ao the Hon. and Learned Gentlemao to -114)"°w, and to receive any correction front him '-11 a sub j e ct which had but lately occupied hi; • cg and frequeutly I,Lod Castlereagh's) mind, whilst it had been considered by the Hon. and , "riled Member. He cautioned him, however, whilst urging the principle of practical reform, enist suffering the passions to be too much itt td, td,g g or jell. an exagg erate d view of existing . , '• tor it generally happened, that when the Ilt t ind bad been relieved from those exaggerations, i i . svas disposed to grow indifferent to what re ;s'ii:l"ll as ohjects of comparatively trifling ins "('-tanee: The increase of crimes had imposed t li a llt " Legislature the duty of inquiring into their e i t"e i _ s i and the means of their removal. The h 4ll "er of criminals of different, classes in Eng , ,NI and Wales for the last tour or five years was kinore than doubled ; and if compared with that i t the commencement of a period of ten years, 4itid increased in the proportion of three to one. sianY circumstances, however, induced a hope .gat so great au increase of crimes could be tree ,:i' ° temporary causes. The whole system, and t h Mr 'st natur e of the country, had been SO altered t.ll.'ilig the last twenty years, that the views , give l r t i t i t at that period were no longer applicable. T a n d ,. ta ken a shape : it had swelled to a size. I .' growth of so many country towns, the en ; 1114gchteet of the metropolis, and the increase eiilitoiltirninet.anufacturiog districts, had in latter year d s of arged the sphere of moral corruption an More than onelsalf of the increase in te e l i tunise r of criminals its England and Wales pi o ti;ile,,d from th e fi ve following counties: Lancashire, 11141'0"eX, Surrey (that pail of it connected with j i ti l e Metropolis), Warwickshire (which contain k cc - Iliej°Kous town of Birmingham), and Yo . % i te s where our manufactures bad extended thetn etivisS° far. The growth of crime had follow -14,,,'"tt growth of great cities, and of manufac , - ; I, -.-13: Among the latter, those of cotton ha I: % g i° "slY increased. Whereas they formerly r odu cei - t o f three or four ben i t :oods to the amoun t ti i , 4its sterling, they had within the last few years i,i' e d their produce to sixteen millions. A great Iti ti ,e of pop u l at i on h a d a l so ta k en p l ace, an d 111 were to be added the three or lour hundred atkii%land individuals limn the Army, the Navy, 4 t" Militia,' which peace had thrown back lifslti.rlit Country. Much therefore of the mass I\r 4 e t n le was connected with temporary causes i — a lersc Or dY hail those men been thrown out . ind: e Which bad not formed theist to habits o f i 4 0 -14 " Y, but there had fallen on this country sue 1 No e y„ r of pressure of difficulties, of want of em oioli-i,hti and lowness of wages, forcing the poor 4 -e °their • hes for relief, as conststut v a il tr parts " ' ti l l: l4 'onm of distress greater than had ever grav,;'°%vn. All these causes operated in an a a i g id ‘ ',,hils t e ,', l thanner to the production of cr ime ; th ere th e vast extent of the evil was adm itted, li tiii,-, rethained no option but resolutely to strive 1 •0 : " ( it A I , • Lapse of time, and a return to the "le s4h ,s'lf ind u st r y, wou ld great ly di m i n i s h i ts 41 4t3 inr it wa s c hi e fly i n p ass i ng from one 1 41; e 131 livelihood to another, that the temp kre°,4B t o dishonesty a c t e d with t h e greatest it,a,:' T his was a fair picture of the p resen t , nr . Fe et s Climes in this country, and of the pros -ISt of their removal. Other consolatory i1t5 (4 , 3 3 ° petted from .no additional principle Lab. I ' I 'IY having attached itself to our national tasi: t , l. If the offences against property, and oc -41..,'11ed by distress, were separated from those i blacker (lye, the increase of crime wow( v 'i'si t i e t raced its the latter. Far from it ; there of rr . "en he no ► positive increase in • that class stse ° , -en ces, if compared with the account of the `'4 e sh'in'es in former tithes when our populat in i t4l i s l all er• Murders had not increased. Toe fe( v 4 ,, v-et tnus for that crime had last year been (ll' titan durin g a great period of our history.— treaeari hear I)--NeiJter had there beets any , M ill:se ir l the followiw, crimes :—Maintiug, shoot sl,:',.:aolauslanghter, bigamy, assaults, rapes, anti d' tti t i lktd i practices. Nay, there had been rather ‘he i i i t : uti ° o : The great mass o f i ncrease was i n Ilet v e-a 'es of toegery, larceny, burglary, and rob ., 4 s t ,"; Adi lion. Member opposite had, with 1)1 .3 ' 1.4141' warmth, attributed rite increase of forgeriei lie,! e "gleet of the Bank.' But an inquiry ha d li ; Proved that the BaOk had dime aed was wil ir::it. t o do every thing in its power to render the al, ati °o of its notes impracticable. There was e itlit °, o „ notch disposition to think that the au,- Ito n „ at tOtt of forgeries had grown out of t h e tli e 7 a ge of cash payments, and would cease with e4irresumption. This was entirely wrong, and tall 1 "14 could he held out that the opening oldie st 4 k 'would produc e a corresponding reduction . in f f or a class of offences. But though the numbet o trtseries had increased, that of exectitions for the yet.tile had been less during the last eight or ten b uls, than durin g the eight or ten which had ' r eced e ', f.. 11,_ •It t h e period which had elapsed since Iv e• Imposition of the Batik Restrictions in 1797 t's divided into two, it would be found that tileeethstions for forgery had beets fewer during . , latter than the former part. As to bur- Igi_l4yie! and robberies, they had increased in a mi vol. pinportion, and it was satisfactory to find that , e lt i e l y did not bear the same characterof at rocions vio 'ce arid cruelty as in former peridds. There was uti.ut.”.atiditional proof that the increase of crimes ,i tit to be its a great measure attributed to tem eorery circurn the - 1 „,., 11 sta nces. That proof was found in , t ) l .,: i e : tt 'r it 1:.,15et tl-v, ei:rauitgieftvnefentt r:ltie:ntat t tl . o e Which if: tlei the r e s 1 1 1 . 1 : a d f l e t t s :b k o a e i re d it'sltascpr showedoi 1-1 i l i t iat t„..x oWffeincies I, od , beets chiefly committed by eitw hor C es b ' "ad been placed in a state of greater : '4 "es. lt n• as "Y the cessation of war and other .f t!i e l aw "" also gratifying. to observe, that tali „Let3l°f 'he country had not. been mate r ,a inii e .. c i n the severity of their provisions, ,I,kucy, il,s!ration had been conducted with great \ twitliatanding- the last growth of crime, there lead been not only no positive in crease, but a diminution in the number of ekecu lions. In 1805, the number of sentences of death passed was 350—in the last year 1250. But dur ing 14 years, out of those capitally convicted one in fifty had been executed, whilst in 1817 the proportion tva. one in eleven, and in 1818 one in twelve. The whole number of persons who had st,thretl under the sentence of the law in Great Britain during the lasr• year was 97, and that number had not varied for many years past. There was a time when the number executed in London and Middlesex atone exceeded that which now sufficed for the whole conntry. He held a docu ment, from which it aprared, that immediately atter the conclusion of the American . war, the number of executions for London and Middlesex alone was in the following proportions : In 1733 53 In 175,1. In 1785 97 In 178 G 59 In 1767 92 If he had nut taken an erroneous view of the sub- jeer, it was therefore clear that instead of increas7 ing, the administration of the laws had di m i n i s h: ed in severity. The present state ot.crinies, how ever, was no doubt - an evil of great magnitude, and of a nature likely to appal the House, if it were not traced to temporary causes. It had not taken a direction at Which bur nature would revolt; but one which circumstances had prescribed to it, and which exertion on the part of the Legislature might ultimately correct.An Hon. Member opposite bad seemed disposed to attribute the increase of crime exclusively to the corruptions witnessed by young offenders in prisons that were improperly administered. He (Lord C.) agreed with hint to a certain extent ; but the House would fail Miserably short of its duty if it supposed that the great mass of the increase arose from that single cause. There were whets which required the best efforts to be used for their counteraction. Let the House lay its shoulders, not only to inquire into the state of prisons, but into that of crimes, it it wished to reach the evil. With a view to renilering secondary punishment effectual, an im portant question would open itself to the House. It would be necessary to consider whether Botany Bay had not assumed. too much of a colonial character to be an object of terror to offenders, and whether it would not be proper to make some new arrangement for their transporta• tion which would 'add more dread to their sen tence Ora what arose from the humanity with which they were sent to that Colony (uotwith standing what had been. asserted by an Hon. Member), and treated 'during their exile. So far from creating apprehension, many persons received the order of going to Botany Bay as ah indul gence rather than a punishment. If the terrors of the law were so blunted,. was it wonderful that crime should increase ? He would not now enter into an examination of the state of our criminal law. He had shown that it •was administeted with lenity, and if the Hon. and Learned Gentle man took it in the abstract, he would impute a character to it, which did not belong to its prac tical administration. It might be a question whe ther it was politic that our law should demand the penalty of death for offences which no other country visited so severely ; but it would be a mist difficult and anxious consideration how to deal with crime, when it assumes a different character from the circumstances with which it is attended. To suppose that it'would be possi ble to graduate the scale of punishment so as to meet all shades of guilt, would be to suppose a perfection, or rather an imperfection, in our penal code, which would strip mercy of, that judgment and discretion with which it is now invested. If punishments were pitched too tow, all their, ter rors would varnish ; and if, in those crimes in which the sacrifice of life is required, an attempt was made to graduate punishments, instead of leaving it to the Judge to measure it according to _the circumstances of the case, a direct en couragement would be held out to guilt.. He hoped that the Honouralle and Learued Gen tleman felt as he did, that there was no se parate interest between t hem, and that they had but one common object—a most labo rious investigation into the state of et hoes and punishmenis. He submitted to the House that the only way to render that inquiry effectual was to collect it into one focus. It it were dis persed amongst different Committees, the exer tioos of some of tine ablest Members would he most to the House, because they would he confined to one branch of the subject, instead of being ap plied to the concoction of the whole, The chief object of the inquiry might thus be defeated.— On these grounds he tiusted the House would ac cept the Committee which he intended to pro pose. If the number of its Metnhers was thought too limited, he should not object to .add to it front time to time, in order that the most comprehen sive view of so great and important a subject should be submitted to the House. He should move for the Committee in the form of a notice, in which he bad placed every term which could tend to make the inquiry as comprehensive as possible. It it were not found so, he should be willing.to amend his motion in any manner which coold add to is effect. He deprecated any effort to inflame the passions of the multitude, and to make them fancy that a'boon was about to he. given to crime. Nothing could be more 'instates manlike that such a course, and Inc trusted the question would be discussed on practical grounds, and not on abstract principles of untried combi nations. He then moved that a Committee be ap pointed-toinquire into the state and description of Gaols amid other places - of confinement, and into the best method of providing for the refor mation as well as the safe custody and punishment of offenders. Sir J. MACKINTOSH had not intended to speak on the subject, but only rose, lest his silence should be deemed oncourteotii, alter so many appCi d from the Noble Lord. In the course of his speech that Noble Lord had said a peat deal on the mo tion of to-morrow, but little on that of this night. He had addressed his observations to that which he expected should be made, and wi t h_ holden them from his own, He (Sir James Mackintosh) had already expressed his intention not to open any thing which he should have to say before the moment when his 'Holton should conic on. He should not, therefore, follow the • • NoLle Lord throtigh all the anticipatioM he had taken of that Motion, Unless he shOulti be able to show sufficient groundS to Satisfy the House of the propriety of adopting his proposi tion, it would of course he rejected. But he trusted that he should be able to establish those grounds. lie should now merely state the ex press words of his motion. It wool 1 be for a St:lect Committee to consider so much of the clintin.l laws as related to the punklooent of felons, As to the admonitioos ►vhich the Noble Lord had ad- dressed to him tint to excite the passions or the lower orders, he should say nothing, but that they were wholly needless. If he had the power, lie wo u ld nut endeavour to inflame any passions in a question like this, which detnanzled the c.dniest consideration. He condemned such attempts as heartily. as the Noble Lord ltin►self. Neither in this, nor in any other case, should he deviate into a course inconsistent with the laws of his country, which he should never cease to admire. Of this he thought he could give no greater pro o f titan the motion which he intendrd to bring to morrow before the House. Mr. LAWSON supported the propriety of trust ing to one. Committee alone the investigation of subjects which were so intimately . connected as to render it iurpoisible tollivide them without in juring the results of the inquiry. Mr. BENNET enumerated the different import ant subjects into which it would be necessary that the Committee should inquire, and contended that the Noble Lord bad embarked the House 'in a Voyage of Discovery, in which there was no chance of success. Not only one Session or one year would not be sufficient to carry so compli cated an investigation into etfect, but even a whole Septennial Parliament would be too short a time. The statutes alone belonging to our criminal laws amounted to 758. As to the project of the Noble Lord to form a new Botany Bay, the House ought to recollect the expence. Lord CASTLEREAGH explained that he bad only started the question whether Botany Bay had nor outgrown its purpose, and whether it would wit be proper to torn' some other establishment more fit for the object in view, nearer home 211 d at less expence. Mr. WYNN objected to the appointment of a Committee with so very large . a 'scope. How did the Noble Lord propose to carry on the investiga- . lion of the multifarious subjects .submitted to such a body ? By subdividing it into different branches. Then let the Honse appoint'her own Committees for that purpose, and keep the power in her own hands. Having sat last year on the Committee for inquiring into the State of the Prisons of the Metropolis, he was fully aware how extensive such investi4ations would prove. It had scarcely been possible to. go through that to which he had alluded in the contme of a whole year. It would be equally impossible for one Committee to carry thaCnow proposed in - the course of a whole Par liament. Even the motion which was announced for to-morrow, he thought should be snlimitt ed to a Committee of the whole House, instead of one up stairs. Mr. Ald. WOOD contended that the Noble Lord had wrongly attributed the great increase of crime to the individuals who had been disharged from the Navy and Army. lie bad had more opportunities than any one to examine their conduct, and many had come before him for whom he had to provide . as paupers, but not as criminals. Not one in seventy or eighty had been charged with any petty offence. He thought the increase of crimes arose principally from the crowded state of, the jails, 'where sometimes 100 convicts were locked up for months together in complete - idleness before they were transported. Much harm •also arose from no provision being made, although, the law re luired it, for passing to their parisheS those ‘vho were set free at a general gaol delivet!,, , , and who were Ours in some measure compelled to return to dishonest practices. Mr. Box TON thanked the Noble Lord for the handsome manner in which he' had spoken of him, and regretted that it .ruight appear ungra cious iu him to notice a misrepresentation nt his sentiments into which the Noble Lord bad fallen. He had never niliutained, as the Noble Lord had asserted, that the state of the gaols was exclu sively the cause of the increase of .crimes. That was a conclusion which he thought unwarrantable as well as the Noble Lord. But he had stated, and be now repeated it, that the . abominable states of those gaols was one of the great causes of that increase. He still thought our prisons the nur series of vice and crime. Critne, like other arts, required instruction, and our prison's were the schools .where that instruction was given. Flow melancholy w,s the fate of a boy confined in such receptacles! He might have had an inclination to idleness—Lyoti-place hint where he has nothing ti; do He might have been fond of bad company yon throw him amongst the v..oist) He might have committed. a. petty, larceny--and you resign him to those who will teach him to. rob more boldly and successfully. His 'companions become his tutors. He longs to rival that renown which in the company of rogues : belongs to the most suc— cessful violator of the taws, Industry and labour grow irksome in his e yes, and he prefers what he is taught to consider an easy mode of lite; be be comes a villain, anii, what is worse, he is made so by the public institutions of your country. If the present investige.tion was carried on properly, it would discover 'many facts 'which would leave all statemeßts DLL: the present in the back-ground.. The motion was then agreed to, and the fol-' lowing neuabers appointed to form the Com mit! cc Lord CastL.reagli, Sir J. Mackititofli, Mr. Canning - , Mr. 131:bughain, • Mr. Buxton, !Sir. Bennet, Sir Scutt, Mr. Orotheroe, I.ord Binning . , Mr. W ilberforce, Sir Win. Curtis, Serjeant Gapley, Sir J. Newport, Sir Nichull, Sir Pig gott, the Attorney-General, Mr. Vesey Fitzgerald, Mr. Clive, Mr. Ashton, Mr. Stuart Woaley, Mr. Wilmot. On Lord CASTLF.UFAGH'S Motion it was then ordered that five should be a quorum, 'that the Committee should sit notwithstanding acv acl jonrit'cncut of the House, and that it should have the r i mwer of calling for papers and evidence, of adjourning from place to place, and of re prerting to the House from time to time. Mr. Alderman Wool) then moved. that the Re f port of the Cuuiiuittee on the Gaols of the Mc. tropolisiast rear ue teferred to the present Coraa not tee, wilicit Was agreed to. TANK OF ENGLAND. rsT7. CAT,LAGHAN rose to move for an ac count of all Park notes and post bills in &- ciliation for each day, from the 25th of , January to the Ist of March, 1819. Ile s.:id that 1:k intention in moving for this account was, that it might show the cause of the extraordinary depreciation in the money market in Lontlon.— It it appeared thlt the Bank had reduced its issue,, that might account for the extraordinary depre ciation Which had taken place in public sectiri ties. But if, on the other hand, it should appeat• that there was not .an unusual din:int:jou in the issues, it wonld tend to remove an imputation from the Bank of its, endeavoming to out its accommodations to the mercats,ile eommuni!y Frith an illiberal and contracted _hand. it the present state of things affected only funded pro ' perry, it would tend to remove the alarms now vrevaililig as to that species of property, But he thought that the present state of threaten ed much injury to trade in general, and lie thong ht that any that;; which the Chancellor or the .Ex chequer might think he could with safety state ou this subject would have a very trangnillizing ef fect. It was probable that some time, most daPc before the Report of the Secret Committee could be presented ; bnd in the mean time it would . be very beneficial if any assurance was given to the public, that in the transactions with the Bank no measure would be adopted tending. to the further reduction of the issues, tiil the Report of the Committee was presented and discussed its the House. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER expiessed himself much obliged to the Hon. Gentlem.n for making this motion, as it atfoided him an oppor tunity of giving SCHDC exp!anation on a subii•ct of considerable importanco.. Tile actual aTuount of issues by the Bank, instead of being materially reduced, stood much higher than they hud been on die 25th of January. Exaggerations mis representation prevailed to a great extent on this point ; but it would be expedient to defer any 11111 discussion of the subieel till the Report of the Committee was presen , e.l. It was vet y im portant that this Report should not be hutried, but well considered. 'Dien , was only one case in which it - would have been justifiable to have au immediate Report ; and that was, if it had been thought neessary that cash payments should be resumed Ott the 25th of July.. He hoped, how ever, that vih:n the Repart was presented, and the subject discussed, the country would recover from its present alarm, and trust to the wisdom of the House, without supposing that any preci pitate or ill-advised measure was in contempla tion. Mr. ELLICE said, that great alarm had cer tainly prevailed, especially Iron, the report of the reduction of its issues by the Bank. , He must acknowledge that inofe was expected from the Bank than it could perform. He wished to know what part of the s not due to the Bank had been paid by the GovernMent during thepresent year ? The CLIANCELLO'II'ot the EXCIIEQUER said, he had no difficulty in stating that no repayment had been made to the link this year. The debt stood at whont 5 millions. Last year iTivision had been made for the repayment of eight millions, but in stick a way as left the amonlit itucvrtain, as the Loan was transacted in such a way that part was to he taken in money, mid part in Exchequer Bills, and the proportions could not be exactly foreseen—as it turned out the larger proportion...— Adjourned. LONDON JOURNALS. FROM THE 'MORNING PAPERS OF TIIIS D.Y. [The Times.] The Spanish Government has engaged thirty transports trout different Ilerchants of London, to form part of the Expedition preparing at Cadiz, to carry out troops to niitti America. An ad vance of hire and pay tor two months is made im mediately., and tor one mon;ii more when the vessels arrive at Cadiz. Insurances to any port in South America are effected at 7 Or 8 per cent. WOOTTON-BASSY,T ELECTION.—The three'‘vo. nien, Ann Hail, Martha Stoat, and Sarah Greed away, wl:o were on Friday night ordered to ha taken into custody, for neglecting to attend tlau Coinmittee nn the Wootton-Basset Election, were yesterday alleged, and conveyrd t o the prison rooms in the Mouse. of Coinnions. One of them is 74 years of age, and the two olic . s are be• youd 6O.—(lbid.) Morning Chronicle.] The accounta . from Manchester and Liverpool are very favourable. At the former there have been sonic forced sales of cotton, at a low price, `but no failures that we hear of, nor do we believe any are expected. From Manchester the ac counts are highly favourable. The manufacturers, we are assured, are going on moat prosperously, and no failures have taken place. to be r bjected in upoit e pew' in ex' ition na cledgeo lie be: emitted Aber as :ording r, COW. to bg. ) g, bC! oPr i " mig bt rh. 0 4 as eti roug h !' • rp gileS 9 tll (lie there' with' to tb€ le Sn , t , I Ile ' ir 11° Cr. . _ urth a to 1"' aker 's being Grad/ orile s a (115' or the of tine en ,j ,bi . e j to itsdal 0 01e4 ppir• PO n the icot, , aide' I Sel4 t ha )e ill' ittie 4 * ,iy t (1 t )0 0° $ [Horning Herald.] The cordial kindness of the Prince Regent wards his old domestics is a trait in Isis charActr equally worthy of hint as a Prince and a man. — Mr. Becht, who has been for many years his Royal Highness's steward, has been for some time sc. vcrely indisposed at Brighton. His-Royal High ness visited his old and faithful servant, and ad ministered' to the sick. nay, almost dying roan, at his hed side, that consolation and coinfot t which his long tried-integrity waS sure to receive front so generous a master. ‘Ve are assured that his Royal Highness tools the . prior man by the hand, with the affection of an equal, Mr. Becht was deeply affec!ed.—He became, however, much more 'composed th:a„• tre hall been for several hours be fore; after the agitation whiCh the unexpected sight of his Royal Master had subsided. • • We understand thzi,t - Colonel Hay llas been bo rionrably. acquit ted'l4 the Court Martial t. Ito tried him and that the official annunciation of the re. mil; will be troth the Office of the Cow nututhr-in-Chief ill a fcr, days.—(lbid.)