The Sun. — London, England, 1819-06-19 00:00:00

He 'try well ternenibered, that when the Noble Lord took oil the i'r.'perty and lncomeTaxes, they ere promi3,d that there would be farther re kyour of the people; but instead of that, thf.y were celled upon to sanction more hurthens upon that very people. Why did not Ministers propose their favourite tax, that on property, in stead of further oppressing the poor The reason was obvious—They were afraid of rarliament- He lamented that the House should expose so the cloven font. He lamented that the waj.irities of the Ministers al , vays voted for fur ther burthens on the poor, rather than consent to additional duties on themselves. When the peo ple sate, that instead of a taitliftil discharge of their duty, the Members of that House were only r.itxions to protect themselves against the Yrtsperty Tax, by imposing new hurthens on the poor, they would lose that respect for the House which every true friend of the Constitution wished to maintain. Unless the 1-louse of Commons were elected by the free choice of the people—unless the duration of Parliament were shortened—nnless there were a elonige of measure; as well as men—he would ;tot vote a single shilling. How happens it then, that the [loose of Commons and the people were at such valiance ? Because the latter saw that the former courrenaneed a system of extravagance and ptot.ligacy totally contrary to their interest. Tice people without doors, as well as the Noble :Marquess and his Friends within, called aloud tar n re , iuct ion of the establishment, and a relief from their bort hens. Till there was a serious and de termined system of retrenchment and economy, he oiliected to impose a single stinting on the pen rnreidiy ou the poorer classes of society, already far too heavily oppressed. The Noble Marquess therefore moved, that the further cone si;!etztion of the Bill be postponed till this day cis to cobs. • „.. .• The CllANcrt.tott •of the ExcHmoca insisted ti:at rt , e last Noble -`ipralier was incorrect in his trsertions when he affirmed that, the additional lax tell on the poorer classes of the people. The House trust.be aware that out of the three mil liOni imposed by the new . duties, a very trifling sum fell on the pourer classes of society ; and .that the chief binthens tell of course on the rich. With regard to the tax on 'malt, there was no cause tor a rise on the price of beer, consequently it would not prove injurious to the poor. Front the present low price of the raw materials, the public brewers had no reason for raising the price or reducing the quality of the beer. From every consideratioo, he hoped the Hose would now consent to go into a Committee on the Bill. Mr. C. CALveaT heard with some degree of surprise from the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that the tax on malt would not affect the poor, but the rich. He (Mr. C.) could easily prove, that its operation would be the vet y reverse. The private brewer could provide himself amply With the raw material, in defiance of any visit trom the Excise; while the pub!ic brewer must pay the additional duty of 9s, 4d. over and above the ex isting duty. The lion. Member could nor tell whet) beer would be higher in price ; but, ac cording to the price of the raw material, the ope rations of the tax would be higher or lower.— The maitster,however, would be the greatest st.tf tercr. In many instances, the new tax would be his ruip. lit addition to the present, tax of lBs. lod., the malister would be obliged to pay the additiol,ll duty of 9s. 4d. and thus would his de struction in trade be produced. The Hon. Mem ber stated a case of con,dderable hardship tailor was now in Kingston Jail who had been security. for a maltater that had failed in business. That unfortuna:e man, who had been a coMniou soldier, at no time was worth- 1001 - . was called upon to give a security for 20001. He would nut say whether the same would or would not be recovered by Government, but the lion. Member entreated that the House and Government would talcs the situation of both the tailor and maltster into their favonrable consideration. M. Bs:Neer declared, that the Right Hon. Chaco!, Ilor of the Exchequer was not correct when he stated, that as the price of beer could not rise, the tax would not operate disadvantageously to the public. In his op pion that•assertion was erroneous, Were it even - to tall, the difference between the present price and the fall would be . all that loss to the public. The Hon. Member condemned the tax on tea as a necessary of •life, especially a necessary article to the poor. He drew a -eicture-of a man, his wife, and seven chil dren, sitting down happily to their• tea. Impose tl►is athlitiond tax, and you take away from the comfort and enjoyment of the poor people ; you deprive this .industrious family of one of their chief domestic blessbegs. He condemned the monopoly of the East India Company in the article of tea, to-the ',mount of two millions sterling'; because, were it not on t I,is account, the people would pro cure tea at the rate of two millions cheaper than what could be obtained after the passing of this tax or bill. The total amount of the sum obtain ed by the Eist India Corupany in this article of tea exceeded five millions. • He:sincerely deplored the hardships which the poor now a►dured, iude peedently of the 'operations of the new taxes.-- Their situation hart been greatly deteriorated since tire year 1793. Ile believed there WQS no country in tier world in which so lunch was taken front the poor. The Hon. Memlier rrprobated the system of extravagance •and profligacy on the part of- Govertrn►errt ; anti promised to vote for the ameudn►eut of Iris Noble Friend. GHSNFELL affirmed, that be would-not vote for, but endeavour to stop further the. progress of the Fax Bina, by supporting the amendment of Iris Noble Friend. Were the latter lost, he (Mr G.) should think the measures of Government were carried by corrupt influence. Mr. Goucti regretted that the'tax on Malt, as proposed by Irk Right Hon. Frientr, tile Cl►an cellor of the Exchequer, bore so severely on the landed interest. Ti►e lUght Hon. Ge►efeman had adopted .and repeated it as a -War Tax. It would now operate as a direCt war against the agricul tural interest. The British farmer was opposed and depressed in i►is industrious efforts by the importation of foreign grain. Hie, drew an ana logy between the situation of a farmer and-tire price of a horse ; and concluded by saying, " pro u pound more on the animal than he is able to beli, and. you force bin) down to the ground !" • Mr. PRICE supported the amendment of "his Noble Fliena (tile Marquess of Tavistock) ; and recommended the Chancellor of the Exchequer to give a preference to the Property Tax, instead of oppre,siug the people by the slew taxes now proposed. Lord OdRINGTON Mild not make up his mind to vote more burthens on the people, already groaning mle' the pressure of taxation. Hostile to the principle of the present taxes, he cor dially supported the Amendment of his Noble Friend. Lord COMPTON thought that some of the ob servatiot►s which had fallen from the arntltonen on the Opposition side came with an dl grace from them. Were those Gentlemen to come forward with H MOdifiCar ion of the Property Tax, his Lord ship said that he would most cheerfully contribute his proportion. Lord A. HAMILTON condemned the measures of Government. The terms of the Lottery had been admitted as a Brent outrage of public feel ing. His Lordship rtfetred the House to the distresses of the people. Distress vrAs not con fined to Carlisle, but pervaled all the poorer classes of society, and particularly affect e d the agricultural interest. Although he might in some (levee approve of the plan for keeping a large dis posable sum, yet he doubted whether Ministers would act faithfully to the public - , by cola - ming it to the intentions of Parliamtnt. But the csta• blishment of u Sinking Fund was no groomd for imposing taxes of the nature now condemned.— His Lordship thOught it incumbent - upon 'him to at hii ohjectrons to the present taxes, with out expressing his hostility to all kinds of taxa tion. Mr. Corte (of Norfolk) opposed any fur ber hurt hens on . the hour, alreally groaning nivier their load of taxation. He knew, tliat,_as au o id Mentner of that House, give the Minister for the time being moot y, and he mould render no tai!b: ful account to the public, but apply it for the puK poses of corruption.--(No, no,, 110 !-Order, der, order resounded through the Hoi,se Notwithstanding the active obedience of the ..kli nisterial troops, he should tell them the op,..ra donS of his mind and feelings. Some might coo sitler the present modeof taxation as a good joke againit the country. • He did not envy such feel ings. He believed that the country had no hove of salvation, unless through the medium of tiieo nial Parliaments.,--(Hear, hear !)--Short Parlia ments would be very beneficial to theyeople, mod very salutary to the Constitution. It was proved towards the close of every Parliament, when illetti bets, in view of their reck6ning to the people, be came more zealously attached to the intetests of their constituents.--(hear, hear, bear !) Mr. COUCH said, that although he should vote against the Amendment of the Noble Maripiess, yet be might oppose some of the taxes. He, however, 6110Uid not oppose every mode of taxa tion. Lord MILTON would not only vote against the Malt Tax, but against any additional taxes on the poor. He would protect the interests of his con stituents by voting against the measures now pro posed. After a long and expensive war—ef:er a war by which the pcOple had manfully sustained the greatest privations-- , th, y were now called upon, as an act of gratitude to.the people, to vote for additional burthens. He regretted that tile Chancellor of the Exchequer bad no other te.sorces to resort to than to impose new duties on the agri cldiural interest, already groaning under their burthens, and gasping tor breath ►and ! submitted to the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether or not it would be better to leave the three millions in the pockets of the people, to fruc tify and to increase, preparatory to any great emergency. For these reasons, his Lordship would • vote for the Amendment. Mr. T. WILSON assured the House, that he should vote most conscientiously for the three millions of taxes, as, absolutely necessary in the present state of our finun:.7e4. He wished to see our finances in a commanding state, in order-that we might not be trampled upon by '-the enemy.— Ile contended that the Sinking Fond ought not to pave been touched, ought not to have been re duced, below five millions. The'ailoption of the liroperty 'lax would have been infinitely 'prefer able to the proposed taxes. It would be iru -the burthen on those who bad strength to•bear it, and prove highly gratifying to the country. — (Hear, bear !) Mr. Alderman WarTnidAN entered his protest against the taxes: Numerous petitions had been presented against them, particularly one from London against the three million system. 'lt was absurd - to suppose that two !pillions nut of the three could be raised without affecting the public. Is such a thing practicable ? The Chancellor of the Exchequer, as a palliative, has brought 'for ward a Resolution at the tail of another, pledging hiinseltand his colleagues to economy. Let the Chancellor of the Exchequer make the experiment of one year, to see how he could do by retrench ment and economy, instead of the present taxes, zmil then if he came forward for pecuniary aid, he would cheerfully afford him his vote. Till he made such an experiment be would not consent to vote a single shilling in the shape of taxes. • Mr. W. LAMB rose to offer his sentiments.-- 11c very inuch regretted the unsatisfactory state of Our finances. It was not, however, the first time that this country had been in a similar state. ele referred to the war of succession, the Aroeti can war„ and snijie other periods of our history. In 1784 and 1785, Mr. Fox, whose example he would always be proud to follow, supported the taxes, although he condemned ihe conduct of Mi :kisters. That great Statesman acted On this principle, that whatever might_ be the conduct of Ministers, fahh ought to be kept with tie public creditor. From every consideration, however, of the present state of affNirs, he found bitwelf com pelled conscientiously to adopt another policy, without the injury to the public creditor. The duties now proposed were on the accessary articles of life ; and their opetJtions,.instend of producing one grand general effort, wouhi be pro ductive of general discontent and diarnay. Ile recommend - Q(1 the resumption of the Property Tax to tie amount now wanted, a measure that would b:! - satioactory. not only to tile public cre ditor, bur sat.sf::ctury to do country at larc,c.— Pot these reasons, be tbonglit lihnseif bound to vote for the Amendment of his Noble 'friend: Lord JOHN ItossELL, in coudemnatiOn of the taxes, particularly the Malt Tax, said ] that the strength of the country depended upon the agri cultural and commercial interests, both of t;vhich would be deeply affected by the additional duties. He approved of the manly sentiments of his Ho• nourable Friend, (Mr. Coke, of Norfolk.) His Lordship referred to the policy of Sir Robert Walpole. in the times of difficulties, and bestowed high praise on his penetration and wisdom / . His L►►rdship went into an ingenious .disquisition of our financial system, endeavouring to prove that 'the operations of the Sinking Fund had not been successful, as we were now .left upwards of 800,000,0001. irr debt to the public.' The taxes bore to►o heavily on the poorer classes of the peo pie, The Malt Tax would be the means of rais ing instead of reducing the price of porter. This would prove highly injurious to the lower and middling classes, including also our bold peasan try, our country's pride. Fron► every considera tion, he should vote for the amendment of his Noble Fr iend. Mr. RicARDo vindicated the Sinking Fund Sys tem-. When tire Chancellor of the Exchequer had asked what had become of it ? the anstrer had been—" It was gone ?" Gone ! Towards the reduction of the National Debt : it }tad been the means of paying off two or three hundred millions, and therefore was so far useful. It hut been the means of affordin4 us the strength, energy, and , ticcess, which had contri hu to our glory as a nation. He contended that we had not had an 'efficient Sinking Fund during the list war,. He c0.,141 not approve of Taxes on necessaries—he perfectly concurred with the Noble Lord who had moved the Atnend iii It nit /...)%m$ :;tot; E : vvas disposed to give as many Tax , s ere .neee!o:ary, bat -not one farthing on , re itivi as 1014: aS there were twit . tuilli„ is attrpl Y ver the e?t pendit are , there was no. he eessi•y to. fresh imposts. lioder the Vretroce of ttpdolit! g public credit, they were on;y intended t- , r tt,r !“..oefit of stockholders. Ile contended MI F.Px had always opposed unnecessary Taxes. At the close of the Ametican war there netirit in the revenue. It was not asto nishing, 'hat Mr. Pitt should have pro posed new itupwit t. :Fit :tow we had a sot phis, bind theretote tic ,tid !o the hutthens of the people was relo'irea : he obieeted to everyone of the Trott's pt.ipostti, and to the principle which livivAdt , l the t%li<de of :hem, thlt of laying them oo those least to bear their weight.— Ue agreed with his Noble Friend, that it thisbad been the last Session of a Parliament, or the first of a triennial one, there would have been no at tempt made to levy three millions from the people. Colonel WOOD explained.—The House then divided---- For going into the Committee .. 209 Fur the ;Amendment .. 90 Majority ' The House having then resolved itself into a Committee, the clauses were read seriatim. Ott the clause for extending the additional Malt duty to ¶hr stock in hand, Mr. BaaNr.r said, that althongh there were pre cedents tot such an extewiion of the measure, yet, in the present rate of the country, it would he nwst harsh ant! inexpedient, to impose chilies on the stock in hand, for it would beTimpOssible that they should he paid ; but it they we re, the tax, instead o( producing 1,400,900/. as the Right , Bon. Gentleman had stated, would yield at least 2,000,0001. which would exceed what th'at Right Hon. Gentleman himself considered necessary. He wished that the payments should be postponed to a la!er period than that now proposed, and cern:Ander! by moving that the part relative to the stock in hand, he omitted. After a few' observations froth Mr. C. Calvert, Mr. Hart Davies, and Mr. Bernell, TheCHANCELLoa oh - the 14'..1-IEQUER observed, that the Gentleman who opposed the clathe fancied that the barley in the -Monsters' 10-inds hind been purchased at high prices. This,tvir, not tlie case. All dear barley had long since b een used, and that trOw in hand bad ',nen bought tat reduced prices. lu order, eowever, to relieve nialtsters as. much as possible, he -intended to bring up a clause to grant them the irlovvance of 5 per cent. on pale, and 12 per cent. on brown which they enjoyed in 1810 : He .shonisi also propose that the duties be paid in distant in stalments; the fits t in November, the second in . January, and the last 'in March, so as to give every facility to maltsters. Mr. C. CALVERT contended that by his present arrangement the Right lion. Gentleman would levy a much heavier tax upon maltsters than he, had stated to the House. It might be estimated at 900,0001. above the 1,400,000/ whiet. he h a d mentioned, and could never be paid in the present . ' distressed state of the trade. Mr. IlusterssoN defended the clause, and Mr. LTTTLEToN opposed it. After a few words from Mr. Ricardo, Mr. Brand, Mr. Brougham, Mr. C. Calvert, Mr. Utiskisson, Mr. S. Wortley, Lord Alt burp, Lord Castlereagh, Mr. J. P. Grant, Mr. Littleton, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Mr. A‘hletinan Weidman, Mr. C. Hutchinson, and Mr. Wes tern, the clause was agreed io. On the clause imposing a penalty of 100/. or 40s. for every bushel of malt on hand, of which a return should not he made-, _ Mr. C. CA LVVRT moved that 101. should be s übst it ut eel for 100/. The'Anteudment wfts negatived. On the cla'use providing that the tint . ) , should be imposed' on the stock on hand, and paid by four instalments; the first, of threepence per bushel, to come due on th'e 10 , 1CNovember, the second of threepence on the 1014 January, 1820, the third . of fonrp,nce on the 10th Fehrti':ll, and the I,6st of foorpence 1):1 the 10th April, 'Pie Committee divided, when the tsnatbets welt— _ For the clause 175 • ,Against it 67 Mujority The House uteri resumed, and the Chairman reported progreas, and naked leave to sit agnio. A niesa,ve trot(' life Lords annottnedi !heir tooient to dae 110tILJA5 2avidtc - 6 Bill, 'and other I iijs ; and stated their A. ,i )rd' h•liji' t o 'l o have passed d 10 ifideinnifY 455 vs co n• the Barnstaple Election Committee from AO o, leq"11".6 that might result to them frorw llle j t ho deuce they had given, to which they ITT' s" concurrence of that House. The Bil; for indemnifying the Barnstaple d nesses was on rue motion of Mr. WYNN, read first anti second time, and committed fur MO 1 6 6 Ti:e Houk then again resolved itself in to Committee. t y on The clause for imposing the additional 00, Colonial Coffee and Cocoa Nuts being rilove''ioi Mr. J. Y. Gr,ANT obiCted to the tax beingois creased from sevenperice-hallpenny, to one 1 5 .05 6 ling, and moved that r lie blank ill th e c should'be tilled up with the fortner Some -motion was negatlved. . „,datt On the clause imposing art Additional' exc's't„ifi of Is. 2d.. per bushel on malt from t he 501 ";,;, waking the total duty three shillings and stNriti);l4 T ... he Committee divided, when the were -171 For the clause - • Agaiti'st it ... ,-3.1 1 • Alajoiny uji• The clause imposing an additional dt pepper was agreed to viithol o it a division. Mr. Birtcu opposed the additional (JOY tra. The CHANCELLOR of the ExcriFitzuEn let the duty teas so s mall, that it . trould hardly' b ele by the consnmer. „`tif i\ir. ELLICH dhjected to the tax, a nd Wa of - opinion that it would not produce at ' t)' b r sd ' ev """e . The Edit India Coinuan ' a" Y ss obliged recently to lower the prices of be to o increase their cousiimplioit„ and theref°l.' pt, ought this was not the pro:ler time to all the du:y on them. Ile turrher cow lained ('• wit pi ()posed duly as being one . that would Pre-- &eve, it • i I y on l.se lower orders. - led Mr. Hares •rs• Goireted. to the tax, as it ton` led 3 encourage stutiggling. r° a -" 211 01/1 Mr. Hurst, and Mr. 1 3 opposed the tax.. Alr. LYTTLETON thought the Tax nn t he . to I ".je g a i s woul:l l t G P r e ° t ( ti l l 'e t r n a''telryw little, were c ° n s be better to w a v e i t , so f ar as t hey cerncd. t h l'o% l M t-H r. Al:lean WAITNM A N censu •--e red and condemned the pres e nt system of taxati°%ed The CHANCELLOR of the ExcnEa ttE ß desc r l o o' the effect of the proposed d ut y on Tea ; i t vl° oll add one penny to the c h arge f o r that wnoo which might now be purchased for tour s hills ~~ He had not proposed a Tax on Wine, been recommended by an Hon. GentlerOn'eolo cause he thought such a T a x wou ld not i licr ", the revenue. - gi* A further discussion took p!ace, w h i t 1 TTY LYTTLRTON. Mr. S. WORTLEY, Mr• SeAftl'Eed. Lord MILTON, nod Mr. IVILsoN, particil'alorts and an Atuendment was moved by Mr. „ r I t the object of which was to make the 'de! , cent 7 on all Teas at Or"iintier 2s. the patio° , 100 per cent. on all above that l wire. s od The other resolution s we re then ag reed 10, °tl the Report of the BM orderrd to be rec e ' : Monday. ' • SUGAR DUTIES. In reply to a question by Mr. ELL/cft, do t 'The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUAR it was not his intention to propose any 941 ' 1 to the duty on . Su ,ar WOOL DUTY. 0 11 The House resolved it s elf into a Committee the Customs Consolidation Bill. t ier' The CHANC;ELLOti :of the EXCHEQUER 01 1 ri" ) ved the _Rosolut ion for t,he ad . ditioual Wool, Lie to(,k this opportunity ref stating, 3 he intendt..dtti piopos'e, that vs the Ciipe of Hope Awl New titlth Wtilts were pect°,„l.;f adapted for the breeding of shecp,,thc new j , shottld• not extend for three y ea rs to w ,, 01 lite r jc, ed front the Colonies, and fir three years mor e should only extend to one-halt on such' wool , Lord MILTON pointedly opposed this tax; Mr. WEsTF.aN said, he should he as sor ry . _ 0; „ any man to injure the vvOollen twinulacturers,l)o, he could not lose sight.ot the interesti of lig l , ic ,/ , ‘ tore;'which the short-sighted nod erroneosis , ja , hey. of the manufacturer tVliollv overlooke d, inpporting this addilloyal duty he was coovilic he wits not injuring tile i nannricturers. n nof ts Mr. DJCKI rti ON said he felt it his ditty to r' 0,, this tax, %dile() wool increase the price of ciff°,cc Mr. HusKissoN contended that the oolf 'e t t o s of the lax.vvotild.he to shut out a mall par t coarser foreign wool which Was now iroP° l ); s p and never had been imported till within tbe, few Myr.ears. - - • • STUART WORTLEY opposed the tax, 0 5— to be iim ios in its , operation. Mr. n floma n SUMNER WttS favourof die " S. Lord tJA.RCItI.LES opposed it. Mr. Walter Borrell,Nlr.Lyttleton, Mr. • (0 , Mr. [hart Davis, Mr. Evans, and Mr. Wils°l". Lt,tidon) opposed the measure. A divkion then ensued— , Ayes . 11)6 Nl),:s Majwity in favour of the Tax .. el‘ The Chairman reported progress, and a,s leave to'sit ogain on Monday next —Ordere(i"og The farther consideration of the Ing r)sv " Debtors' Bill was postponed'. e 0 0 0 The Parish Vestries' BIN %v .- as read a 11-c time, and committed for Monday, Mr. FRANKLAND iJENVIS 1119ved 011(1 0-4 : 0 0 , leave to bring in a Bill to regulate the Weig7 Bread in London, and-within ten Wiles °' Royal FAchange. '0 Mr. FlysKiwi:4 obtained leave to bring l l oo Bill to regillate the Right of ,Pastttrage 1 , 11 „ New Forest, and tV• provide for the Collec" Reirs in the Forest of Dean. Mr. F. lir-AlN:sow obtained leave to bring 1(1 dill to regolAte allowances to Navy Agew s ' Mr. 1-11-. , w , made several Motions for Reeit,.. rer•pectiog the Storekeeper•Getteral's DcP ot" The other Orders were then esposed ot planed at HAi.r•PAST THREE LONDON: Printed t , .) B. C NpsT VMS Of Nti• 29 ' W. Ormond-strutt, Queen-stitive:, and published br„ Sf.:KIITS, of NO. 7, South Mollon-lirtet, at Ti• o r i ,!‘ Othc., No. 112; Strand ; wiwre Afrzeitisl.locnts , - Ziz. ;post-paid) must ini.itioseti. 1 ,- 1/ 7 -,) tI TT7 hi p ‘ 1 " e p ßio 1 1.1)1, \IE, 2id to 11 4 01,, h . _ mei eari!g Pt IlL . ' 4 tqi e trr Jili v st 4 t I ~ l ] 0 1 .4 , A #4,1, r o , 7 ) ,,, i Aro