The Sun. — London, England, 1828-05-14 00:00:00

self justified if he did not oppone the ptestot motion; we had a deficient revenue ; our farmers were in the greatest distress; our manufacturing population wtrerealiting scarcely any profits. The elipping interest were daily pressing forward their claims for relief, and under these 'circum stances it 'Auld be little less than an insult to the people of En ',and to propose any new burden.—(Hear.)---Waso the 'esovernmeat prepared to lay oft fresh fi.tts not, W ere they ready to state in what branch of the public ter *ice a reduction could be male to meet the demand now made ? Let the proposition of the ltight Hon. Gentleman be carried into effect, and in all likelihood the !love would be called on eo co nsider what part of puleiie service was to be made inefficient that Ile other more important part might- noe he ifitelYeaed The present state of things was oaring not to the current. expenditure of thee country; but to that very Bill now alaeot to be taken into c onsideration, and to another Bill which passed it lso6. Under these circumstances, he did nut consider himself justified in voting for the motion which the Right Hon. Gentleman had made. The Right Hone Gentleman had grounded his proposition, not so mutdi as L e gal claim, or a claim of justice, but as one of liberality and 'generosity. It was easy for Members of that House eo be generous with the money of their constituenee. Ile (Lord Althorp) bad seen many instances of such genero eity, but he had hoped that the system had been changed— he had hoped, when the present Administration was formed that it would sedulously commence the work of economy, and he still entertained such hopes, ntatkithstanding the proposition which had been just made. Thaa 'Govern ment, from the situation in which they were placed, might have some eacuee for bringing it force ,a, but the House could have no excuse for agreeing 'at 'it. It was a painful part of the subject, but was, n' e • cart ae tlistanding, one to which he must allude. He did - eat consider the political life of Mr. Canning to be sued as entitled his family to make this claim. He admired t.lge conduct of Mr. Canning during the latter portion of; bit lite; and he was willing to bear testimony to the good he then wrought, but of his earlier life no such could be said. This part of the question arPlied 'Mote to his own individual vote, than to the deci- SW"_ to which the House should come; it was a painful part of his duty, and one which he would not continue. He bad said enough to justify his own vote, and he called upon the House not to accede to the proposition that had been made. Several Members rose to address the House, but the privilege was conceded to a new Member— Mr. STRATFORD CANNING,who said that a n a s pire _ tiou which referred to one of the greateel li mes t h at England had ever sustained, he felt him" If, from peculiar circumstances, obliged to address the douse, although those circumstances greatly increased the di n t.. . p la y w hi c h b e felt on thus, for the first time, pr taenti: ng Himself to its notice. The objections which thea Noble Lord urged against the motion of the Right Hon. Gentleman, appeared to him to be very singular—his objections were grounded on a state ment that the country was in so distressed a situation as to render it impossible that the House could agree to the pro position ; so that, whatever weight it might have, a s a claiin of justice, or of generosity, the country was repre eanted as in such a state as to be unable to accord the paltry pittance of 3,000/. a-year, and therefore was obliged to set aside a claim of generosity, no l ess th an j us ti ce . H e ( M r. S. Canning) did not envy the Noble Lord the vie; be had taken. What feeling would such a tentituent create in. foreign countries, he would ask? Unw wolild they consider such a statement, made ae it wae, on Stat'h a subject, in the British House of Co . " ul'erlane? to fact, the objection of the Noble Lord restchi not upon this ground, but upon his the jeetions to t'ase services and to the merits o f M r . C an ni ng. And th' to_ Lord, in order to justify his objections, led the "House back to Mr. C.'s early days, Arleen the Noble Lord differed from them in politics. Tbe fact was, that Mr. Canning's memory was before the House, not with re verence to his early life, but to the services of his more recent years. It was with respect to this that the House ought to judge. He could never believe that the senti ments of the House could accord v,ltte those of the Noble Lord, but he was greatly surpris at the quarter whence the opposition to the propoeal of the Right Hou. Gentle 'roan came ; for he was much mistaken if the Noble Lord keel not, souse time since, come down to the House, and. declared his accession 'co the principles of Mr. Canning's Government... Cries of No, no.) If he had erred as to mode, he midst be right as to the principle. The Noble Lord certainly did express leis ready assent to support the Goveunreeent and the policy of Mr. Canning ; and that circumstance might justify his surprise at opposition coming &ma such a quarter. If the House looked at the conduct oh Mr. Canning in the layer pastimes of his life—out that he meant to derogate front the earlier:--the House would feel justified in acting in a manner called for by.justice to I his memory. Although lie had risen under the feeling that he was peculiarly bound to address the House on such a subject, and although that feeling bad overcome the dif ficulty he had felt, lie would assert that he supported the motion on public grounds merelea lie hoped that the vutc would pass unanimoully e er nearly so, or it must lose its effect. lord SLTHORP aaleeened. The lion. Member had been mistaken as ta. his conduct during the last Parlia ment. He had tad stated his approbation of the Goveru meta of Mr, 4 :_anning ; he had merely stated hie impree eion, that bf the two patties but of which the Government must he:re been formed, he hail preferred that of which Mr. manning was the head. Lord MILTON said—l feel, Sir, that this subject is cue on which I cannot be satisfied to give a silent vote, and I hope for the indulgence el the House for a few mi nutes. I confess that I feel myself placed in a situation of sonic difficulty—a difficulty nut a little increased by the course which the Noble Lord hae thought proper to pur sue. In the first place, I acknowledge that the case brought before us is not one of those chew and indubitable propositions, in which it is impossible fur a man to make stp his mind but in one way. It is, Sir, a question on which we shall be snore divided by feeling than by rea son. I entirely agree (continued the Noble Lord) with my Noble Friend, as to the great financial difliculties iu which the country is involved—and if I could go further with hint, and say, that they are so great as to prevent the House from taking into consideration even for a mo ment any proposition such as that of the Right Hon. the Chancetior of the Exchequer, I should admit that then we ehould be saved from the difficulties of further con eideratiou. But great as those difficulties are, it does not appear to me that they are so pressing as to prevent this House from taking into consideration such a proposi tion as that submitted to tis by the Right Hon. Gentleman, supposing that there were grounds for it. (Hear.) I ant not about to enter upon any history of the life of Mr. Canning —still less am I about to enter into a history of the whole of that life. But I must concede that I could not have sat for so litany years in this House, in company, ae I may lay, with Air. Canning, without having-, on many occa sions, differed from him, and therefore, undoubtedly, I must admit, that there may be many grounds on which I tuight say the vote proposed might be opposed. But I will ask the House; is there any man, living or dead, whose life is or has been of an unmixed character?— (Cheers.) Is there any man, the stoutest partisan, or the boldest opponent of any political leader, who can get up in this House and declare that the conduct of such leader was free from all reproach on the one hand or on the other that the conduct of the person to whom he had been opposed had been so bad as to merit unqualified, unmi tigated opposition?lt appears tome, (Hear, hear.) therefore, that the life of every man is of a mixed cha tr- ages downwrd ranter nd, admitting that position, let transport oi selves some In doing this, we trust can, what history will say of Mr. a, and se, if us we Canning. not look so much to the ea rly stages of Mr. Canning'slife, when he leagued himself with othC young me n o r approve; but let us look to that whose principles I cannot first stage of his political life, when his own opinions were formed and enforced, and when he was called upon to go- k upon the his t ory of vern and to act. It is impossible t°l °f lied into power (or . this c o u ntry since Mr. Canning was ca r that which is called power, for place does not alway s con stitute power), and not to see what were the results of the exercise of hi s v i gorous mind upon popular G o vernments in all quart ers o f t h e universe.—(Cheers.)—Future history will be call e d upon to suppor t th e statement that the world at large has been greatly indebted to h Cheers.)—lf then that be the case, not merely th p e ople of England* not merely the people of Europe, but the whole population o f t h e g l o b e i tse lf, even i n it s most remote quarters, have been operated upon beneficially by the measures which Mr. Canning submitted to the Govern ment of England.—(Hear, hear.)-4 should consequently be acting unworthy of myself,- itsupota a confined view of • 3lr. Canning -'s conduct in his political lif e , should be in fluenced in the vote lam now c alled upon to give. lam inclined to think that the House of Com mons w ill reap in the opinion of posterity, more honour by acce di ng to th e vote which has been proposed, than by opposing . it — (Hear, bear, hear)—and , Influenced by l nfluen those feelings, although I do not feel that cert itude . w hich every man .would wish to entertain on every operation of life, I con sider myself bound to support the proposition now b e f ore the Committee.—(Cheers.) Lord MOR ble for hintPETH said that it was impossible not to concur in the proposition of the Right lion. G en tl e - man (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) and in most w h a t bad fallen from his Noble Friend who had just tea down. In attempting to call the attention of that Hon originally ~ to the subject, be had felt that the r e were man eh a task thee Hon. Hon. Members much more competent to su himself. Re had felt also that it was of the utmost int• portauce to interest in his object other parties who had since —happily—taken it up ; and with that view he had named for the consideration of his intended proposition a distant deSe in order to afford an opportunity for his Majesty's tioverninent to adopt it. With the result lee felt Sattsfie'd '; he was fully contentthat the responsibility the authorship of the measerre should lie tral'ASXerreil to those who naturally leessee - seall 1-,Veatest share'of respect and authority wittrih i g otikeia Wills. He begged leave, Hewer, distinetly td avow, that in his opinion the pSoposition of :the hight Hon. Gentleman was beselly adequate to its pro reseed object—that it 'seas, hardly adequate to meet the exigencies of the tying, or to record in a worthy mantr' the synipaTily, the regard, and the reepect e of a gree.e na- Itecm. The reason which had princiretTly lae::enced him in that course, was, that Upon IS l .l'eiich occasions it was im portant to secure er rnssible unanimity of opinion,— hearjsilite Right Hun. Gentleman °what had said, It ate (Lord Morpeth) had heard it With saiisfa teit'n Chat there did not exist on leis fait, In the Mode which be proposed, any intuition 'of 'placing the merits of Mr. Canning on a level 4 71 th the 'claims of any person merely plodding 4 .ltriiineh The duties of an official situation. The .proposed vote Ind not been put forward an as appen dage 'to 'the IWrage, and he (Lord M.)•was glad of it, fa if mit Stight form an objectionable precedent, have the 'elf :Set of inducing future Ministers of the 'Crown to confer Peerage's with that view. Tim the instances of Lord Chatham and Mr. Ye . ..Vitt - al, the provision made exceeded that proposed The vote under consideration ; yet he considered tie merits of the individual hero rnfereed to i woe.% in no wise inferior to those of the irelivid•nals he had mentioned. Neverthelesr e the fwbiiy and the con nections of Mr. Canning Ivotild receive with grati tude that which Perliament might bestow, as a re cognition of the latents, and of the claims on the country, sef that lamented Statesman. He lam& ted 't`hat the preposition had encountered the dise..pf`rohation of his Noble Friend (Lord Althorp.) the pecuniary loss in curred by the family of Mr. Canning by his lamented death was great, Earen the fecneral expenses (which were borne by deem), were very considerable. The only mode left open to that House to exams its gratitude td the illus trious deceased was t'nerefore by intreasing ihe Comforts of those he had Iseit hehind.. , -(Hear.) . =--Of all the objections that cV.:id be taken to Stitcli Intaeirre, that founded upon "economy was the MoSt untenable. Every generous, every grateful aetio'n, Might be met with a similar objection— economy. lie could never bring himself to think that any Meesnre calculated to stimulate to disinterestedness was economy—(cheers)—and he would ask, could any measure be adopted more likely to stimulate Palk fuctionaries to seal and virtue in the public service than the protection of the surviving membets of their families ?—(Hear, hear.) —He was very far helm saying, that the extent of loss eustaineel b' - individuals was of course to be made up by the 'Country; but when the fortune of a deceased person heel been injured in the public service, it could not be de nied that reparation became a duty of that House.— Those who best knet Mr. tanning were quite aware of the unosttntat!ohs mode of his life ; yet the emoluments of his sn't'lblie situation by no means left a superfluity be !„.e`e.Yi his necessary expenditure. The places he had held during the last few years of hie life ; namely, Leader of the House of Commons, and Foreign Secretary, unavoidably involved him in considerable elcpence, by the constant and unnecessary exercise of hospitality ; of this he should re fer to one toittance : it might be recollected that when, thrk%gh his policy, the new States of South America had been called into existence. Envoys from them respectively were deputed to this Court, and there was to be seen, for the first time, at the table of Mr. Canning, the Repre sentatives of Colombia, Mexico, and Buenos Ayres, with the Ministers of the Houses of Hapsburg, Bourbon, and ttaganza. (Hear, hear.) In dealing with the proposi tion before the Committee, he would implore of Hon. Members to treat it, as Mr. Canning himself did the grant for paying Mr. Pitt's debts ; namely, he would say, let it not be given as a vote of eleemosynary charity, or as a grant dictated by posthumous pity or compassion, but as a public debt due to a great public mare. (Cheers.) This naturally brought him (Lord M.) to the consideratiOn of the ques tion--did or did not this country owe to Mr. Canning a debt of gratitude? [ Here the Noble Lord took a review of the public life of Mr. Canning—of his conduct respecting thee Stave Trade—the Bullion Question—the Corn Laws— the Foreign Policy of the Country—and every other great Question agitated in his day, contending that on every one of them the Right Hon. Gentleman had merited the ap probation of his country.] Sir R. WILSON declared that there wae no man raore deeply impressed than himself with the value of a frugal expenditure of the public money ; but, at the same time, he thought there might be such a thing as generosity creditable to the character, and a liberality advanta geous to the interests of the country. There was no Wall who would say that those remunerative dietinc times ought to he confined to persons who had clone ,:cr vice to the country in the army and navy. They should be extended to all whose good example tended to - promote ' the welfare of the State. The question then was, had Mr. Calming such claims to this mark of public gratitude ?. There were, be \void(' admit, several passages in the life of Mr. Canning to which emteptions might be taken, cer tain errors inseparable front the long life of a Statesman ; but when he (Sir R. W.) remembered the services Mr. Canning performed to the country, and the public lamen tations which pervaded England, Europe, and America, on his death—when lie remembered that the talent of France was employed in recording the sympathy of the Continent with the regrets of England—and when he remembered the many benefits Mr. Cunning's policy conferred on the cause of civil and religious liberty—he felt himself bound to give his support to the present vote, a vote which he was sure would be satisfactory to Lis coustituente and the country generallv. Sir M. W. RIDLEY did nut oppose the grant on the score of its amount. He would object to 30Q1. as much as to the proposed vote of 3,0001. ; but, though lie hoped that the auticipatiuus which he apprehended from Mr. Canning's measures relative to Greece and Portugal would nut be realized, yet, on the ground of these two measures, lie would negative the present motion. He admired as much as any man the brilliant talents and the dazzling eloquence of Mr. Canning ; but he regretted to see that those brilliant', talents often led the Honourable Gentleman away to mea sures injurious to the country. The quality of his intellec tual accomplishments was not a sufficient reason to in duce him to vote for the grant. In justice, however, to Mr. Calming, he regretted the opposition he gave 'inn un the motion of the late Member fir Durham ; but he could not think that he could make reparation fur his conduct on• that occasion by supporting the motion of this night : he could not, consistently with his principles and his sense of duty, which were always opposed to Mr. Canning's course of policy, vote fur the proposed grant. Lord CLIFTON; being one of those who last Session declared their confidence in Mr. Canning's principles and measures, could not now hesitate one moment in giving his support to the motion. Mr. HUME considered the present motion of very great importance iu a public point of view. If it were carried they could never-refuse to make a similar grant to the fa mily of any gentleman in office which thought proper to apply for it. What had Mr. Canning done for the public, which entitled his family to so munificent a reward for his services? Had he, like the Duke of Wellington, done any thing for his country which ought to make the House of Commons anxious to note his career, and to mark his de cease? He was not aware of any such occurrence. If then their vote on this occasion could not rest upon such a basis, would Hon. Gentlemen consent that it should rest on the whole of Mr. Canning's conduct during the thirty two years of his political career ? He was sure that they would not—for Mr. Canning had been the regular and un wearied advocate of all the measures which during that (time they had denounced as unconstitutional. (Hear, 'hear.) Till M r . C ann i ng b ecame P rem i er , no ne of the rmea coourenscledw,h- which h ad o b t) e ta en ioe i a n Honour a bl e G ent l emen b y w h om h e (M r . H ume ) w as stir the hlailtiiiotalofsuapppporrotingoodtl,re there fore, he was certain that p if this measure had been his o „, e ntly attacked by . many' Ofprthopengoetnyt.lemmene proposed five years ago it would have been most vehe strelmous in defending itswshlioooelsd, likeere mostto k n ow what Mr., Canning'had done for his country in the last li ve years, which entitled' him to such a tribute of their esteem and gratitude. If lie did his duty as a Mini ster, did lie do any more lauglet—Wa s the mere performance of his . duty sufficient to justify the Chancellor of the Exchequer in calling . upon the House to Make a .• ' for Mr. Canning, on the score that *he his Majesty provision ointed him to a lucrative . n Majesty had app . Ireto n in India in which he might have amassed h fortune, he chose to public benefit of his stay at home for time country? If feeling stronger than anothe it Mr. Canning had one could they r ' w " the feeling of ambition ; an d believe that Mr. Canning had bad any difficulty rn making his choice, when the Government of so distant a depen dency as India was hi one scale, and the probability of being the first Minister i n the first country of the _ world was in the other? Mr. Canning made his elec tion between them : and if he suffered a pecuniary loss by the election which he made, surely that was no rea son why the public should be called upon to make it good. They were to reward one of Mr. 'Canning's sons with a pension of 3,0001. a-year as a mark of the gratitude which they felt for the services which the father had conferred upon them. He trusted, however, that they would be just before they Were generous, and if they ttete, they would consider whether they were in a situation to grants of public tuotiesa for raEitli a an overwhelming ne cessity was not established. With a revenue of 33,000000., we had not at present more thus .. '1%000,000/. to meet our expenditure, in conseln . .ente or the interest of the debt, to eity nothing of the dead weight eating up all the real 'Of our resources. Now, that being the rasa, would Hon. Gentlemen mention to him any act which Mr. Canning had ever - done, as a Ministers for which his situation and emel t unents as l‘kWaig'et were not a sufficient reward ; ? family, then, in want of eo t m hi l s ms grant. siora the Was f►am t i assistance? I'E * C;ounnittee had been told, that , as an ac country, iNtlr}r; then, in suds a I Canning did not wish oL r ► flourishing state—were its finances so oyerflowina that it Was Callt.4 upon to feriae a tate in:sney upon a re- Indent family oi.iOdy would contend for so monstrous Ad - ab Lat's a proposition. He held that the grounds which he had already stated were sufficient to justify him in opposing this grant. He had, however) ,pother reason. He considered it a alangeteet noctaine to hold out to official i . ,:aen; that, if they ne glected to p`roilie or their families during their lifetime, the country would provide for them after their f!aath ; and he was burry to say that the doctrine, dan gerous as it was, had too often been acted on to the course of the last a).O years. Leaving that point, 1 16.1 ' 70,6 's for further discussion, lie would iioW prasceed to put this ques tint% its a pia ;61: . yie'W iii Which it appeared to him rather strange that the House had nut considered it. They had told that the conduct of Mr. Canning as a Statesman had beeu so grateful to his Majesty, and so grateful to the country, that both were ahsioiis to reward it by making a provision fur his family. Why, then, did not his Majesty grant ?Sr. Canning's son a pension out of the Civil List? surely the House could not be aware that if Ministers were so strongly inclined to remunerate Mr. Canning's merits, there was au annual fund of 200,0001., out of which they could do it. There was the English Pension List of 95,0001. a the Irish Pension List of 70,000/., and the Scotch Pension List of 30,0(10/. If that list were looked at, he was sure that no persons would be found upon it whose claims could stand a moment's competition with those of Mr. Canning. Let Mr. Canning's family be placed upon that list, anti let not the country, already over burdened with pensions and places, be called upon to make provision for it.--(" Question, question.")—The Hon. Member proceeded amid considerable interruption to ob serve that for the reasons which he had already stated, h e was determined, if he stood alone, to take the sense of the Committee upon the grant. Lord GEORGE BENTINCK would venture to tell the Hon. Member for Aberdeen, that if there were no other grounds for the remuneration now proposed, his Right Hon. Relative had laid sufficient grounds for it in having always been the first and foremost in opposing the Hon. Member's theoretical reforms, and his petty paltry objects of economy. (Loud cries of " bear.") It was one of Mr. Canniag's proudest merits that he had made the Hon. Member for Aberdeen, and the party which went with him, shrink into his present miserable dimensions. The country must be sunk low, indeed, if it could not afford to pay its meritorious servants. (Hear.) It had frequently on previous occasions rewarded its ministers of state and its military officers, who had distinguished themselves by their public services. We had rewarded the Duke of Wellington very largely—we bad voted to his Grace at different times 700,000/. of the public money; and he asked whether there was a single man in the House who begrudged the. Duke a farthing of it. (Hear, hear.) He believed that if the vote of that money were to be put again to the House, every farthing of that 700,000/. would be voted by acclamation to the Duke of Wellington. (Hear, hear.) The country, he repeated, must be sunk low indeed, when it could hold , out no higher reward to its meritorious Minis ters than that which they received in the annual stipends attached to their respective offices. - (Hear.) He trusted that, notwithstanding all the observations of the lion. Member for Aberdeen on that subject, it would be long before the House concurred in the doctrines which he had broached Upon it. He was sorry to hear his Noble Friend on the floor assert that it would be an insult to the feel , ings of the country to accede to this grant. He did not conceive that any person who had seen the sorrow which pervaded the land not more than six months since, would think that there was any disinclination in the country to show respect to the memory of the late Mr. canning.— (Hear.) He little thought last night, when the conse- ' crated mantle of Mr. Canning was thrown over the op pressed s Catholica of Ireland, and when his eloquent lan guage was used so successfully to defend and avenge them, that we should this day be called upon to deny him a re ward for his meritorious services. (Rear.) But so it , was ; and they had that day listened to a cold-blooded repetition of the various invectives which party rage bad fabricated against him. For his own part, if he could quarrel with the vote of that evening, it would be on ac count of the coldness with which it had been brought for ward. (Hear.) He would say, on behalf of the family of Mr. Canning, " We scorn to accept this vote as a vote of compassion. (Hear.) We claim it on the ground of service rendered to the country, and it is on that ground alone that we consent to receive it." (Hear.) After the turn which the debate had unexpectedly taken, he should have left the House with pain, had it not been fur the speech of his Hun. Friend near him, and also for the manly speech of the Gallaut Gentleman who sat next but one to him (Sir R. Wilson). He thanked them both for the mode in which they had supported his resolution, and above all he thanked the House for the patient attention with which they had listened to him during the statement which he had felt himaelf compelled to make by a sense of affection and duty. (Bear, hear.) Mr. BANKES said, that in the course of his life he had had much intercourse with Mr. Canning ; no dissension ever took place between them ; and all his recollections of that great man were recollections of pleasure and satisfac tion, except (if we heard Mr. Bankes correctly) on one particular question. He was now, however, very unex pectedly called upon by Government to consent to a grant of public money to Mr. Canning. He wondered bow it could escape the recollection of Honourable Gentlemen, that in consequence of the recommendation of the Finance Coin tnittee, they might have to reduce considerably before the close of the Session the compensations, remunerations, and annuities granted to the families of those who had exerted themselves and perhaps died in the public service. How could they ever look into the face of the persons whose small pittances • they were going to make still smaller by retrenchment, if they now threw away in one suns 60,000/. on a lady who moved in their owe rank of life? How could they reduce the pensions of clerks with 300/. a-year, when they gave at once 3,000/. a year to the son of Mr. Canning?—(Hear, hear, hear.)— Much better would it be for Ministers to look at the ordinary expellees of the country, with a view to their re duction, than to propose throwing it away in this manner. He was perfectly ready to admit that the means of the country were not so reduced as to be inadequate to the re muneration of eminent services to the state, but in this class he certainly could not, in this sense at least, com prehend Mr. Canning. Allusion had been made to the services of the Duke of Wellington. He meant not to disparage the late Mr. Canning when he said that surely there was no comparison between the merits to which he could lay claim, and those of such a person as the Duke of Wellington. With all his admiration for Mr. Canning's parliamentary talents and powerful eloquence, he must be permitted to speak his mind freely , when he declared that for this country he had proved a most unfortunate Minister. This very day on which they were called upon to discuss his claims for having conferred eminent public services on his country, they had received intelligence (alluding to the news from Portugal) which must lie heavi l y upon Mr. Canning's head as a Minister. The y now knew for a certain and unalterable fact , of the t otal failure of all his anticipations and expectations , f r o m interference in the internal affairs of Portugal; an d who knew, also, whether they were or were :not, at this very momen t, on the eve of a war with the Porte, from interfere nce springing out of the same . mischievous policy? It was Mr. Canning's policy had brought about thee evilsa---(Cries of hear, and murmurs .) — He would saY was that which shad entailed upon his country failures 'of- the most disastrous kind..:-(Cry of Hear, and No.) -- Much had been said of the sacrifices made when men chose public life for their employment. Upon this course his opinion had always been, that men who embarked in the public service in this manner, always made the selec tion at their own option, and had no right to turn round and expect, in the ordinary c ours e of events , th is kind of indemnification. It was no argument with him to state, that had Alr. Canning pursued the profession of the law , he must have 'risen to the highest station and honours of that profession. He admitted that such would in all proba bility have been the case? still it furnished no reason for adopting the principal of these grants out of the public money. Too many compensfations had been already given to men who were probably taken from a single brief only in their prac tice within the Courts. He had no notion of planting such people upon the public purse.—(Hear, hear.) --.He con demned in the strongest manner all precedents of this kind. the more o p r ri e n e ci xt p ra le va o g f a h n i t s ._ amendment .) e _ The Right Hots. sGentleman had said, he wished by the extravagant.—(Hear. )._He went to said, make tha i: present prop os iti on to amen d th e P ens i on A c t. Yes ; but times h Canning had additional claims, bec ause o f hi s baying sur rendered a high and . rich office in India, True; but when A t l e r. n he made that surrshder, as it was called, he did it at his on n option, and at the same, tirue he obtained as a substitute an, office of higher honour at home, and a Contingent ise;;.- Opp. They ought, besides to recollect, that Mrs Canning in this triisaistre. had kit - rendered no emoluments, for, not having gone out to Nina, he had received none. In every view which he could take of the present proposition, he must oppose it.. It was, an evasion of the economical prin ciple, and a weste of the Public riorsey, Which they Might to hs'.±llS.nil.-:s(thar.)--6overnments always required watching hi pecuniary matters. It was but recently that the Finance Counnittee had discovered a device by which Ministers were enabled to evade and elude the principle and mean ing of the helf-pay ,annuity,. fund r , am!, ; instead of, purso tn* p!ati to its eitinction anti even tea: Lstel niination, they had managed, with the inge nuity of office, to substitute young lives for others old and nearly worn out, thus putting a new class of persons in a more fevourable light than their .predecessors. It lied been said, that Mr. Canning Would, in the probable course of nature, have lived longer, had it not been for the cares of office ; and that it was reasonable to indem nify his family for pecuniary loss on that account, consi dering the contingent peusion which he must have enjoyed had he lived. This was quite a fallacy ) and another way only of deluding the understanding , Upon the Merits of Mr. Canning as a Minister, he had already spoken ; but would the House only look at what his measures had cost the country ?—(Hear, and murmurs. )_Would any man deny that Mr. Canning had incurred very great expellee iu endeavouring to realize those vast and magnificent schemes which he had projected for re-modelling the policy of Spain, and Portugal, and America? Did the /louse know, that besides the expense of seuding out the arma ment itself to Portugal, not less than 160,0001. bad been expended upon the extraerdinaries attendant on these movements ? True, they were to have a claim for this part of the amount upon the Portuguese treasury ; but if the Chancellor of the Exchequer should call upon Don Miguel to liquidate this debt, he would be glad to know what chance there was of a farthing of the sum finding its way into his coffers.—(Hear, and a laugh.)---Then, again, look to his measures towards Turkey. He certainly could riot fairly put to Mr. Canning's account the value of the loss of lives of those brave men who were sacrificed in the unfortunate and disastrous battle of Navarin—(criee of hear and murmurs)—but with the general expence of the expedition he was certainly chargeable, and in this branch of the calculation must be necessarily comprehended the losses and damages of the fleet.—(Renewed murmurs.) — There was one other thing in the way of expence with which Mr. Canning was more peculiarly and personally chargeable. Within the short space of two years he bad expended 42,0001. of the public money upon his private residence.—(Murmurs.) —He would repeat, solely upon his private and personal residence.—(Cries of Oh ! oh !) He reiterated that it was true.—(A cry of " Where ?") In Downing-street, at the Foreign Office.—(Loud cries of Hear.)—Was not that his private residence also?—had he not converted it into Isis. domestic dwelling for his own personal accommodation, and no other? This was a pure job for Mr. Canning's mere private accommodation. — (Cries of Hear, and No. ).--Other precedents had been mentioned for pensions of this kind. Lord Chatham's had been named, although he hardly should have thought Mr. Canning's would have been brought into comparison with such a name : eminent as were his abilities, admir able as was his eloquence, still it was not too much to say that the merits of both persons were not exactly alike.— Then Mr. Burke's pension bad been alluded to. That was an act partly of justice, and partly of generosity, and much higher in the scale of comparison than that now before the House. Mr. Perceval's, who had, after many years of public service, received a pension, was likewise a different case, and furnished no example for the present. Hewished sincerely that this proposition had not been brought before the House; but being there, he was bound by a straight forward sense of public duty to give it unqualified opposi tion.—(Hear.) Mr. Secretary HUSKISSON said, 'that Mr. Canning having been a near and dear friend, with whom he had been connected during a long political life, he was sensible that in coming down to support that motion, he might be supposed to have been actuated by that bias which his feelings upon the occasion would naturally suggest ; and knowing that, in consequence, any thing which might fall from him must have much less weight than under ordi nary circumstances he should hope it would, he was anxious to avoid saying one word. But after the speech of his Hon. Friend, the Member for Dorsetshire, it was not pos sible he could remain silent.—(flear.)—Under all the dis advantages then, of the feelings under which he laboured, he would address a few observations to the House. His lion. Friend, the Member for Dorsetshire, bad argued against the grant upon-the ground that it would he a most dangerous and inconvenient precedent--yet his Right Hon. Friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, had stated most explicitly, that it was not intended to found any precedent upon it. And recollecting the debates which took place upon the question that the Offices' Pension Bill should be amended, in which debates, when it was stated on the one side that it was advisable to take away from the Crown Offices to which no duties were annexed, or in other words certain sinecures of which the Crown enjoyed the right of disposal in reward for great public services, the objection taken to it was, that in so doing they would de prive the Crown of the power of rewarding, in the person of his son or successor, some great man for efficient public services, when circumstances had rendered it impossible that he could receive any recompense in his proper person ; this objection was answered upon the ground that it was not proposed to deprive the Crown of this power, but that it was thought better to substitute some other means by which it might be exercised. And the answer further stated, that should such a case as that alluded to arise out of the system that was contemplated, it was always pos sible to come to Parliament and that Parliament would never fail to act with justice, consideration, and generosity. Well, they did now come to Parliament, and the answer suggested to it by his lion. Friend was, that the precedent would be dangerous and inconvenient, and could not be established. But the reply to the objection of his Hon. Friend was in fact anticipated, for if, under like circum stances, a case of this nature should again come before the House, the precedent should be again adopted. But he thought it was extremely hard they should be told it was a dangerous and inconvenient precedent, when it was con sidered the right of appointing to certain sinecure offices could not have been taken away without the consent of the Crown ; and that in the event of the House refusing to ac cede to such a motion as the present, the Crown might fairly say, I would never have assented to this power having beer taken away, were it not for the pledge you have given, and which, on the present occasion, you seem disposed to violate and forget. Nis lion. Friend forgot that the. Act of Parliament under consideration, and which it was pro posed to amend, was not the Act of Parliament under which the. provisions to which he had alluded were made, and which he complained of as hieing increased to two millions and a half. The Act was a specific Act, and had been, if his memory served him rightly, recommended in principle by his Hon. Friend himself, and was adopted only after mature consideration. By that it was declared that 40,0001. should be placed at. the disposal of the Crown, for the reward of those who had rendered eminent public services to the Crown and to the country. And, be said, that if the Crown had granted the whole sum, it would have been no ground of complaint in the House of Commons. This sum of money was a compensation given to the Crown in exchange for the right it formerly pos sessed. And when it was proposed that one of the six pensions. into which the 40,0001. was divided, should be bestowed upon the son of Mr. Canning, that this would reduce the number of claimants—and that it was not, as his Honourable Friend (Mr. Bankes) would infer, any proposition to increase the five millions or the 40,0001., but that every thing was still left resting within the re served limits. He knew as well as his Hon. Friend in what state the Government was, and lie also knew that when it was wider circumstances of much greater and more oppressive difficulty, than any under the consideration of the Finance Committee, that it had been thought possible to grant funds to the Crown for the remuneration of great public services. His Hon. Friend had said that Mr. Can ning had not given up the idea of providing for his family, when he abandoned his appointment in India, and that he did so with pleasure. He was unwilling, as might be na turally supposed, to enter into a detail of circurnstances, private or personal, but he declared that whateveranight have been the feelings of those who were near and dear to Dlr. Canning, it was the object upon which-his heart was set, and the hope which was most warmly cherished. There were many circumstances and considerations likely to have pressed upon him (Mr. Canning) upon that occasion.— The difficulties in which he was placed in the public ser vice might have weighed with him. The fortune be had received with his wife was much impaired, and the inheri tance of his children was diminished. This might have well been a motive with him. It was impossible to dive into all the m o ti ves th a t ac tuated a mind like his, but this was a most na t ura l one . For what could be dearer to his heart than th e p ros p ec t o f f i lling a distinguished situation, in which, while hi could do good service to his cou ntr y , and gain glory for himself, he might, at the same time, repair the injury that had been inflicted upon the fortunes of his family, not by extravagance--not by ostentation — but in the public service? He differed with his honour able Friend (Mr. Bankes) as to the principle upon which he supposed public men should act. Isle said distinctly, that when the King called for the services of such a per- son, in tvlsateoever situation it might be, lie was hound to give them, providing only it was not incompatible wit h hie public principles Or private honour. In proof of what he had said respecting the f€4linge of Mr. Canning, he would.. produce a letter which Was Mitten be hien within three 'months after what -his Honourable Friend (Mr. Bankes) considered the dearest object of his heart wasgra tifiede and When. he had the glory he, anticipated from his fothip,n Nll in view. lie that letter his Right Hon. Friend said—" Would to God I Were note on hoard the Jupiter"—the ship, added the Right Hon. Gentleman, in which Mr. Canning was to have gone to India. He had heard his Hon. Friend (Mr. Bankes) himself state, that in his opinion those filling . the highest situations in this coun try were not overpaid, but, on the contrary, they were not sufficiently remunerated. He agreed with his How Friend in that position, and also in another, which was, that it would be bad policy for the country to pursue, to raise the stipends of high office& The reason was plain. In- this country there was an Aristocracy that enjoyed great wealth, united with talents and education, and them were many Commoners of whom the same might be truly said, and he trusted that the high offices in the State might be always adequately filled by those to whom salary was no consideration, and with whom the loss of it would make no difference in their expenditure, or in the scale of their establishment. tut did his Honourable Friend think it expedient to deprive the Crown of the .servicee of all other descriptions of the people, excepting those possessed of immense wealth? For himself, sorry as be would be to see the Crown deprived of the services of the Aristocracy, lie would be still more sorry to see it tied down to a combination of Aristocracy and wealth, to the exclusion of all the other talent that might be found elsewhere. He was sure that this would be no improve ment either to the Crown or the country, and that the Crown ought always to be enabled to seek, in all classes of the community, those persons most distinguished for their talents and abilities, and who were most likely to render service to the country. His conclusion from all this was, that it wits a wise principle to have the high offices at small salaries; and that, if once in a quarter of IA century the country was called upon to pay the debts of such a man as Mr. Pitt, or as, in the present instance, to mark their sense of the services of a distinguished Minister, by making some provision for his family, there was more economy in it than if they were to raise the salaries of all the great public servants when it was not required. He mentioned the Marquis of Lansdowne and the Earl of Dudley, as in stances of individuals to whom, when in office, salary could be no c onsideration; and who, whatever might be the expense imposed on them, would not find it necessary to add any thing to the scale of their establishment ; and if the salary were raised to 10,0001. a-year to them, it could be no object, while it would occasion a much heavier ex pense to the country than contingent demands of a similar nature to the present. His Hon. Friend (Mr. B.) had spoken of the official. residence, raid in something of a mysterious manner. lie could not pretend to say what information his Hon. Friend might possess; but for him self he would only consider it as a public transaction. His memory was not so bad but that he could recollect that an Hon. Baronet who felt it necessary to oppose that motion, and he did so he bad no doubt with pails, had stated that in his opinion there should be an official residence for the Foreign Secretary suitable to the dignity of the country, and upon that scale . of magnificence which would permit him to exercise the hospitality connected with his depart ment, in a style worthy of an individual filling a situation of trust in so powerful a nation. Such a residence was not easily found in the same quarter of the town with the . Foreign Office; and as to the 42,0001., the y had been ex-.. pended upon the improvements and extension of the official department as well as the official residence. He would ask the Hon. Member (Mr. Bankes) bow many Foreign Secre taries he had known who had been persons not so circum stanced as to bring to their office a great income from pri vate resources. Lord Grenville; who was at the head of Foreign Affairs for so hing . a period, with so much honour to himself, had no other emoluments but what he derived from his official salary. He mentioned this, not because he did not think Lord Grenville's merit, great zeal, and splendid talents, did not deserve what he got, but to show that the comparison would not bear out his Hon. Friend in the assertion he had made. His Hon. Friend had adverted to a generally received opinion, imputing almost political de linquency to Mr. Canning, that he was the debtor instead of the creditor of the public, on account of the expendi ture which, if he did not cause, at least took place whilst he was high in the Government. His Hon. Friend had directed them to look at Portugal, at Greece, at the pas sage of the Pruth. He was sure that every Gentleman in that House must feel that the Hon. Gentleman's course of conduct, in now bringing forward these arguments, was to give it the mildest appellation, unfair.—(Cheers.)—lt was unfair..-for he (Mr. HuskisSon) standing there as a Mini ster of the Crowni'as the colleague of the late Mr. Can ning, must hold himself responsible for the measures on which his Hon. Friend had passed so sweeping a condem nation ; but which it was impossible—and the Hon. Gen tleman knew its impossibility, and it was there the unfairness lay—for him then to enter into a full vindi cation of. He had a right therefore, to complain of their having been thus introduced.—(Hear, hear.) — But he begged to inform his Honourable Friend that the expedition to Portugal' was sent with the concurrence of every Minister of the Crown then in the Cabinet. It had also the . concurrence, openly avowed in the other House of Parliament, of the illustrious Duke now at the head of time Government. That expe elition, so concurred in, was sent for the purpose of securing the independence of the oldest Ally of this country, by pro tecting her from foreign invasion and aggression.— (Cheers.) —That was the sole, exclusive, definite purpose, for which it•was dispatched, and lie meant to tell the Mon. Gentleman that it had accomplished that purpose— (Cheers) —for the independence of Portugal was effectually seeured. When foreign aggression was no longer threatened or apprehended, having fulfilled the faith of treaties, our troops were withdrawn. Yet now did the Hon. Gentle man want to snake the memory of Mr. Canning respon sible for what had since taken place. - Nay, the Hon. Gentleman, if he could, would make the purse of his family answerable for it.—(Cheers.)= -His Hon. Friend wished to charge upon the memory of Mr. Ginning all the folly, the infatuation, time evil counsels, which had followed the arrival of the Prince Regent in Portugal. If all the accounts we had received were true, that individual by the ill-advised and mistaken line of conduct he was pur suing, had forfeited the word lie had given to his country, to his brother, and to Europe---(Hear, hear, hear.)—but still Portugal was an independent State, free from foreign controul, and, therefore, he said that all the objects which they were bound by treaty to acceinplish, had been faithfully and honourably accomp lished, by this ccom country. It had cost, it was true, this country some money to accom plish it, but God forbid that Great B ritain should ever for feit its honour and its faith front such a consideration.- His a lished, lion. Friend had next adierted, be believed, to the passage of the Pruth by Russia, and ascribed it to Mr. Canning's policy. It was impossible to foresee Whet circumstances were likely to arise from the present state of affairs in time glreabut for e olic East of Europe , but he cer tainl y did not anticipate any of the dire consequences that see med to haunt time mind of the Hon. Member. He would n o t now controvert th e asser tion of his. Noble Friend , that whatever evil consequ e n ces awroiseuldinausksthbiemaitftrhibeutewda,tn lftr. Calin t g'e policy; but he of Mr. Canning the passage of su the Pruth might th not p have y been effected long ago, and whether that might not have been under circumstances in which all the obligations' of the treaty of .London, so much reviled and abused by his Hon. Friend, would have been in force' as they now were, when the Monarch of Russia found it necessary for his interests to take separate steps? The naval force had been increased in the Mediterranean from the necessity we were under of protecting our . commerce front piracy. With respect to the delay that had taken place in bringing forward this motion, he could assure the House that it did not originate with the Government, but from private circumstances, needless to mention.-.-(Hear, hear, hear,) —The services of Mr. Canning merited this mark of respect being paid to his memory as much as those of any statesman that bad gone before him. He (Mr. HuskiSson), had known, in the course of his life, many public charac ters, but never had he known one who so little considered self in the discharge of his public duties as Mr. Canning. —(Cheers.) He was regardless of health, of labour, hi of anxiety, of every thing, but the fame and welfare of s cou ntry.—(Cheers.) When he saw him , an d o wn withook his leave of him, in July last, his fram e was borne d fatigue of body and mind, but his s p irit was s till yo f u h ng arid enthusiastic as ever. He sti l l had . t h e fame is country at heart, and bore it in mind-till hi s latest breath. No man ever had the fame of his- countr y more at heart than him. There was one in-whom be believed the feel ing was equally strong, whose existence teas hound up i n it—he meant Lord Nelson, and he truste shat i their spi rits now rejoiced together in the abodes of t me b1e55ed........ (The Right Hon. Gentleman here became so affected, that his voice sank away, and he was obliged to pause some mo ments before he resumed). It was not so much for the value of this grant to Mr. Canning's family that made it desirable to pass it, as the acknowledgment it would be of his worth and services, and the estahlishmr..t of an example of a reivard purely bestowed as a test :dolly of merit. Mr. STA N LEY and Mr. S. WounEv highly llogised the conduct -of Mr. Canning, and supported the 1: otion. Mr. Secretary PEEL—..Sir, an observation 1 .ts fallen duns a Noble Lord oil the ether' side of the Home, lid which 1 eshould, under any circumstances, have been de sirous to Make some comments before the discussion closed. —The Noble Lord stated, that he Was strongly impressed with the idea that this proposition was made in conse geence of some compromise among the Members of the present Administration. I can assure the Noble Lord that that impression is totally erroneous; and for myself, .1 must say, that if 1 had never at any period of my life been connected with M r . Canning, by official tics, but bad been a private and entirely independent Member of thie House, 1 shmild here given a decided and cordial vote ie favour of this motion.—(Cheers.)--Sir, this proposition appears to me to be defensible upon these broad grounds. I think it to be perfectly consistent with the policy of the lawe—perfectly reconcilable with the practice which hag been followed with respect to former Ministers, under certain circumstances. I think it consistent with good policy to encourage the application of talents like those of Mr. Canning to the service of the State.—(Loud —Sir, 1 cannot concur, either, with the gloomy view taker of the finances of this country by the Noble Lord. The, view he takes upon this point is eutirely erroneous. Ido not say this with a view of diminishing either the virtue er necessity of public economy; but this country is not in such a state with respect to its finances, that if this propoe sition be defensible on the grounds of policy and justice, we shall have any difficulty in granting it. If it is not de fensible on these grounds, whatever may be the state of the finances, it could not be justified. But if it be de fensible on the ground of policy and justice, there is no thing in the state of the finances of this country to place to in the degraded situation of not being able to fulfil obliga tions acknowledged to be just. This grant will not be in addition to the public burdens, as the Act which deprived his Majesty of the power of rewarding merit, established six pensions, to be granted to persons who had held certain official situations for the space of two years. Mr. Co' sling had served the public for upwards of twenty years , eight or nine of which, was as Secretary of State for Fe' reign Affairs, in which situation he so ably maintained the honour of the country. While Mr. Canning lived that pension would have been his by right, and now I muted that it is not inconsistent with the policy and spirit o f the law to transfer it to his son. There are eases, we knoll in which the circumstances of the deceased Minister do not put his friends under the necessity of calling upon Perlis', ment to make provision of 'this sort for his family. h the party should happen to have possessed a very ample patrimonial fortune, for example, it would, of course, h e • unnecessary to come fi)rward with any application of this kind. (Hear.) This is not the case in the present in' stance, though 1 admit that there are difficulties in this matter, arising out of the peculiar circumstances of th e case, and the possibly embarrassing nature of the pr' cedent which it is apprehended that our vote of to-night limy establish. But in the case of the late Mr. Percent !) the circumstances under which Parliament was appealed V: on behalf of his family , were also very peculiar; a nd eau. x forget the provision which it made in that case? Can forget the provision decreed by Parliament in the case of Mr. Pitt? In the case of others, of my Lord Grenville, for instance, can I forget, that though no provision of the kind now proposed to you was granted by Parliamen t, those means of granting permanent rewards for public se r' vices did, however, then exist , . which the Act that has been referred I. has subsequently put an end to ; and whic h have been replaced by the substitution of other funds,_er plicable in other modes to similar purposes?—(Heart hear.) —I take, again, the case of Mr. Burke—there was an instance of the greatest and most distinguished taleil but manifested in service's not of an official nature; - a n yet provision was made for Mr. Burke, and made, 1 an l certain, with the general approbation of the country , in 9 manlier which we could not now resort to, because we ha ve abolished those sinecures, with one of which he was grits tified.—(Hear.)—lf that means of rewarding great talents employed in the public service had not existed at that period, this country would not have refused to appropriate a sa e ] of money for such a purpose. But I confess, Sir , it do 7, appear to me, that every Honourable Gentleman in th" House may give his consent to this motion, withonte, in the slightest degree, compromising a single politic; principle or opinion:—(Hear, hear, hear.) -1 aton e , forget that in the case of Mr. Pitt , a l l political eat.'; ferences, all personal prejudices or considerat ions on t", part of-Members of this House , with scarcely one excepti°" : were merged in tile unanimous desire that was ente C tabled of paying some such tribute , not pe rha p s (in t e ,e judgment of some), so much for public se rvices act uahe rendered as to the extraordinary talents which had o f applied to the services of the State. Again , in the cal % Mr. Pitt—Mr. Wyndham and Mr. Fox both drew aO e tinction between the measure of voting a sum of money ' : ° the representatives of Mr, Pitt, and that of voting to of money fOr a monument to him. B oth o f those g ree men said, " We do , distinguish between a sum to be ar propriated to a monument, and one to be applied to the payment of his private debts. We cannot vote for the public monument, without recognising the public ser vices which it is avowedly intended to commemorate; but le don't hesitate to vote a fund which may enable his trustee: or his family 'to pay the debts of a public man, contraste; in the public service." I adhere to the principle neyeeZ and repeat, that in the case of a public man, who twenty years had deVoted ail his talents in the civil sellri ti ; of his country,' every Hon. Member may concu r in it vei out in the! least degree compromising his political opiniolo, The Hon. Member for Montrose had said, that a but to ambition had been the reward of Mr. Canning; , meet a claim of the - powerful nature which his great a eer vices preferred upon the consideration of Parliaments "Y, pretence of this kind, would be a species of sordid a nd 7t , gar economy to which Parliament would disdain to Tee ° The Right Hun. Secretary concluded a powerful a pp s d el support of the vote, amidst reiterated cheers fro m all el of the House. Whil e The Gallery was then cleared for a division. gallery was closed, hoie Sir G. MURRAY addressed the House. The 'W m o f House, as he (the Hon. Baronet) thought , owed a de"- to kind remembrance, even apart from his public serviend Mr. Canning. Who was there that had not felt refl .° f whenever at length he presented himself at the close_.%, debate? Who had not been alive to the grace of hia,7ol tier ? What member had no t been fired by the sp ir it id his eloquence when excited in favour of any questO n d e which the rights or interests of liberty were called into • which, mciaetnet morereason,tesvahyenmofirvettehdigiwiliyt bate,. or surprised and overwhelmed by the tide ora te, arg9; cou ld pour upon his opponents ? No man could ellsif than b e :i 11 George Murray) did, the glory of one name, which W °n o i ever be dear to England,—the name of Lord Nela°, ll ],e of another nobl e i n di v id ua l, whom by name he vr ow lie mention, but who, as the first had been followe d 11 "iti tory on time ocean, had been in a no less degree fa y .. , n a ti 'y by triumph in the field ; but be believed that he shnw re doing no injustice, even to characters such as theses i f sgs ventured to place the name of Mr. Canning side hY 4 with then). In future gi ven such countries would cOO 7 O O for the honour of having given such a man birth. It l'er be the boast of Ireland, that she was the cradle of Oof 1 , / cas tors; and of England, that he had been the ch ild adoption. The Soaecteol-GENEeete. for Ireland, and WYNN also, we were informed, spoke in favour 0 ' motion. On the division, there appeared, .MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS. t hey For the resolution, 161 Against it, 51 , I Majority , 1 " Some Messengers from the Lords announced that 50J, Lordships had given their consent to several Bill e ' .e d asked permission of th e House for the attendance a 0 0 their Members, Mr . Cam p bell, to g ive evidence Ile the•Cumruittee of their Lordships on the wool trade. PENAL LAWS. sit ). Mr. EDWA RD DAVENP ORT req uested those t:,,d whom he usually agreed ice all that regarded the fig/. liberties of the subject, would dismiss from their 0 0 eS however, th a t b ecause t h e y were in some ee so , o ers idea that be wished to add generally to the powereLi d follow, Ma g istracy, in seine respects too great already. It they might not he as deficient in others; they d oe in fact, great as to s e ver ity, b u t ve ry limited as tom t and in that way he certainly wished to extend &Ohio?, surely seemed inconsistent that the same Alagistrstee., fi in Quarter Sessions could dispose of men's fate for Ye el .V in h y incarceration or banishment, should not be able t ° the slightest punishment on a pilfering boy, 'even th elll P acknowledged his guilt, but have no alternative h e 6 00 impunity and sending the party to gaol, to pass In d before trial, a s s ociated with the dregs of society, a n et , undergo a regular trial and subsequent imprisonrojelg Ii the great expense of his industrious neighbours, an o pt own ruin, and all this, perhaps , for som e petty vtoeeS which formerly would have been punished by tim e e sb , l or the parish beadle. For be it remem bered that di, fine, costly, and often well-conducted establishmentl, i , tie! e cou nty gaols, were, as far as the person committed ru, 0 .0 is concerned, little better than so many universities ,I`,;iet propagating of criminal knowledge, where the novic e , 3; takes his degree in vice at the expense of the pub il bo lo;el House was aware that this country had been long. ei l l i o sio' e e under a grievous curse, in the increase of crimes n o tb 1 proportion to that of population, the causes of which, ivoodi proceeded from circumstances, and not from enY te eeri e depravity, he was anxious to explain. I st. It wag Ira ft4p, to the degradation of the working classes, pro ceen 05 a profuse and profligate issue of paper money dtl rea c h tear ; a war a elend all we held dca tthe expense of w. 4 tin d y , the character, t slhi e and on ce h onest Nis ei ,' the price of prof tnd thus threw the lal '0 e k e out that provisi4 tlaitned, and never r odustry. The next tuced by raising the tational debt was bon paid, by which a parr transferred to the ga money of Course thri those who had any, a and while the food of t that unprotected pr plentiful, and thus offences. The third be sought within t offender found less I and, moreover, won iriuocence, for to wile it amounts at best on niof souls. Consult gaolers, they all afire 4 2 4tatn ination of per! ""a-4 yet do ne t o reme lie u more sacred on t t h , ° ", ° Pt whatever wi — "el he wonld sug e r upt o f b a il, to pr till's i rretrievable cor gaol deliveries; and I t Petty sessions to a 16 or 17, t o s h or t "l my c onfinement for il light b e all owe d for rleept where all c' 'b ete sh ou ld h ave 'bete is a genera l I : l ; s° nMents, and it .41 to condense thi tfthe i ns i de of the 11 e inc moral unproven yreasing rates, obs for trifling offe they are far m Wer e exposed to less rrirainal lists with th t he n the relative con poo s e m 7t ;_rtio e , r ...011: 4 44:1 a att t e ri z eil f lau l o lk iryr a r .t : i r hi c e uu: ay i quitet - s e d r iaao r d b h tclyo a %tl . ' a o omsh t e n t i ctienpeeveautes consequent irl h‘ ruel n d aicie v tsrs e rrsu a e ri reock li re s p v i c eh u ainaat m sod a t ? l lght to do, our am Itialative crimes am Nord i t. FERGUSO 'leleave to brim 4inle that some ml tt a ll ich would amen , .41 Objection of him sat down, aPP th e law on thi s p m : 411 kgeously alterei Oat a gree , th a t -44 11 calculated to Pre vent e d men wl" t7et 4" afterwards e r knew of a r Punishment. and Ptl reing a n offende 11.'4, rather than C_ k re he sat dowm ",.." 1 Hon. Friend ( i vr itten by a Baro Wilmot, V " 44 on the subjec Mr &telt WESTER the hill to b e brom Leave was then Sir f. W. RH tuna the coal-ow tecesury, dated CITYAND BC k„ l °4l ALTIIO lott upon this s 4 4 i% ROBINS' it ") he hoped th to l l : , re not po..,tpc t 'e Which the circumstanc Lord ALM° 41 4 1'4 could be 114 (1 been so lon s'tPone it. 4. 1 -1 th e mode 4 ided ; when, 4 P ( 44 . 1 t took pl ace (, 4 tls. day.)