The Sun. — London, England, 1841-08-28 00:00:00

INIORIVING SUN his cordial and earnest support. The Hon. Member for Yorkshire had singled out the foreign policy of the Go vernment very infelicitously. It was to be lamented that he had not made up his mind before he came down to that House, and had found out what was right and what was wrong. One great distinction might be drawn be tween the Government of the Right Hon. Baronet and that of Earl Grey. The latter had pledged his party to , peace, retrenchment, and reform; and he would say that, riotwithstanding the exception referred to by the Hon. Member for Yorkshire, the peace of Europe had been maintained by the present Government, in spite of the 'greatest possible difficulties.—(Cheers.) With regard z - o retrenchment, much had been effected by the Whig Government, although they had not done so much as was anticipated. The grounds, therefore, on which he reposed his steady confidence in her Majesty's Ministers, was that they upheld the great principles which they had put forth to the world. On the other side, he heard 4' no principle or no measure propounded. He !,card nothing to meet the exigencies of the ^3mmercial community, or the wants of a suffering peo . They have said that some time in the course of text year they will condescend to take into consideration the state of trade and the sufferings of the people. But there was anything which could justify his confidence is Ministers, and his want of confidence on the other side. it was the course that had been taken in the pre sent debate. The Bight Hon. Gentleman opposite was the colleague of Mr. Huskisson, who had extended the alarkets of their industry, and had reduced their taxa- tion to a certain extent, and if the Right Hon. Baronet were imbibed with his principles of free trade, surely, after the discussions that had taken place upon the ques tions of timber, and corn, and sugar, it was not too much to expect that the Right lion. Gentleman would !,ate what _ course he meant to take. It was not too ouch to ask him to get up in his place, and say to the eople of England, whose commerce was now at a stand till, that at a future time he would endeavour to see what relief could be extended to them, consistently with he exigencies of the case, and the circumstances in which the country was placed. After a few observations from Mr. GOITLBURN, in explanation, Captain POLHILL was astonished that so much time :lad been taken up upon so simple a question as that which was before the House, which was merely, had the House of Commons full confidence in her Majesty's Go vernment or not, or were they capable of carrying on the Government of the country with any advantage to the people. They were not then discussing the corn, the sugar, or the timber question ; it was simply confi dence or no confidence in a Ministry which had been cc Jemned by the late House of Commons. Many Hon. Members had alluded to the tenacity to office shown by the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth in 1335 ; but he was sure the Right Hon. Baronet would rather have cut off his right hand than have con tinued on the Treasury Bench after Parliament had passed such a verdict as had been passed on the present Government by both Houses of the Legislature. The practice pursued by the Government was directy at va riance with the doctrines upon the constitution laid down by Lord John Russell in 1823. Holding these senti ments, he would give his vote for the amendmen with m:;c11 pleasure. Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL said that the debate wls re makable only for the silence maintained by the Gentlemen opposite upon the great questions which were raised in the Speech from the Throne—questions upon which the whole country was deeply excited, and full of expectation. He must say that he did think such a prot;)and silence was neither just to the country or respectful to her Majesty. lion. Gentlemen grossly lec...ived themselves if they imagined that, because they chose to pass over in utter silence the great question !aid before the House by her Majesty, it would lay lottinant in the public mind. No, the people would think .leeply, and with a sense of burning indignation at the policy of the inccming Government k:eping in such ot-ofound darkness. aoe people would think the more .f these questions because they, were passed over in , Hence now. In his opinion the Corn question now ood in much the same situation as the Catholic ques tion did in 1828, and the celebrated letter of the Duke oi! Wellington to Dr. Curtis in that year, with the substi ution of corn for Catholic, would be quite in accord erice with the times. It gave rise to hope, when it was recollected that that letter was followed, in 1829, by c ,ncessions—concessions which were made in considera tion of the perilous nature of the period, and not to ef•ason or justice ; and he would not much wonder if the 11:stress and privation now existing, without any hope of ,Ileriation, might, during the ensuing winter, produce 11::,gors so threatening as would force ion. Gentlemen ,Ti;,stite to abandon the sliding scale, to which they were no more bound than they were to Protestant as eondancy in 1828.—(Hear.) One word with respect to eland. Last evening he was astonished to hear the shout which was set up by Hon. Gentlemen when' his Ffiend the Member for Meath alluded to intimida tion as practised at the Irish elections. But in what way (ad they receive the allusion to the conduct of the late }iigh sheriff of Fermanagh? It was received with a titter, id the great oracle of the party opposite, f o und muc h I:vilt with Earl Forteseue for dismissing him from the ,i.tuation he had polluted. The writers in that paper rt:.ought lightly of a man who had merely, as they said, ,Ititelied the return with orange ribbon instead of a bit of re d tape. He would venture to say that not one mezn -I,er for an English University—noteven one of the mi,m liers of the Irish University—not one member of the Church of England in that House, would say that the seal used upon the occasion was not a sort of blasphemy.— (Cheers from the Tory benches.) He was glad to hear that cheer ; it showed that good feeling was not en tir.,4y banished from the breasts of Hon. Gentlemen op posite ; but still, because Lord Fortescue had justly upunished a man who had so misconducted himself, that punishment was to form one of the ingredients towards vote of want of confidence. Coming events cast their shadows before. He had been deeply hurt to see a most obnoxious practice revived on the Forth EaStern Cir cuit. On a late trial in Armagh, every Roman Catho lic who was called upon the Jury was set aside by the Crown Solicitor. He was afraid that practice would he followed throughout the country, and if so, it wonld greatly add to the anticipated difficulties of the Right ilon. Baronet. He would tell him that if Ireland was his difficulty in 1835, he would find that that difficulty was not lessened now. The course taken since that pe rif id by some who would form part of his Administra tion had not much conciliated the good-will of the peopl.-, IS Ireland. He did not know what situation 'the :.'N:Toble Lord the Member for Lancashire would till; all he hoped was that he would have nothing to do with Ireland.—(A laugh.) An excess of caution was often dangerous, and might be so on the pre sen t occa sion. With the distress now prevailing in England, and the position of affairs abroad, he could see no reason why the people should place confidence either in the ability or the disposition of Hon. Gentlemen opposite to recover the country from temporary distress, or guide it through its difficulties. He, at all events, had none. Mr. CHRISTMAS would not have thought it neces sary to address the House but fur the observations that had fallen from the Hon. Member for Limerick, in re Terence to the election for the city he now represented. Ile had said that Members had been robbed of their seats in Waterford in consequence of the system of re gistration that existed there. Now he (Mr. Christmas) contended that he had no rieht to make such an asser tion until the return of that election was brought under the consideration of the House. The Hon. Member had ascribed all this to the defective state of the registra tion. lf that was so, he (Mr. Christmas) would ask whose fault that was ?—(Cries of "Hear, hear.") Was it not that of the Honourable Members on the other side of the House—(Hear)—fo r when the Noble Lord the Member for North Lancashire proposed a remedy, it met with the most strenuous opposition of the ocher side of the House.—(Hear,) He thought :,he pre sent question was one of confidence between w ee side of tiie House and the other. His own opinion seas that the present Ministers were not entitled t o t h e confidence of the House in consequence of their vam'etating policy.— (Hear.) He believed that the insurrection of Canad a had arisen in consequence of the cond uct of some of the late Members of the House and that of the Government. —(Wear.) He thought a very. one-sided V i ew of the ouestion involved in the present debate had been taken by the other side of the House. He knew something of the Corn-laws, and he knew also that the repeal of those laws was unpopular in Ireland.—(Cries of " Hear," and " Oh, oh.") He would support the amendment of the Fon. Member for Yorkshire, although in doing so he should be assisting to place the Right Hon. Baronet in a station of difficulty, though one of honour.—(Hear.) Mr. C. P. VILLIERS then rose. When the Hon. Gentleman who had spoke last thought proper to remind the Right Hon. Baronet of the difficulties he was about to encounter in taking office, and when he thought proper to remind him that h e h a d to d i scuss b ot h s ides of the question, he did not prescribe the means of ex tricating himself from the difficulties in which most of the Hon. Members oa the other s T 1 am ely that of preserving ; eeie had been placed, place.—(Hear, hear.) le (Mr. Villiers) having .1* -sae occasion to address that , ) ionse, and to address - seiniself to the subjects that had eeen recommeneeii.' for the consideration of Parliament the speech r erinn the Throec on s evera l occas i ons , h e 11 ` -1 e "r!a , "edy looked about an d li s t ene d w i t h grea t srlietY tor any reason that would save him the trouble r'-eea.tin g these arguments. Ile had, therefore, given * e melt attention to those gentlemen who had spoken on -dee other side, in order to find out, if possible, 'what it was they intended to convey to the House, but he must confess that he had been un etee to effect that object. He had listened to his Hon. Friend the Member for Winchester, who wondered how any persendared to speak on the subject—(Hear)--and . w:t'!. deference to his Hon. and Learned Friend, whose in confusing a Jury he had often great pleasure in witnessing—(Laughter) —he thought he had not less in confusing the present question. For his own jsu•t he could not understand him.—(Hear, hear.) Nor sva, he more successful in discovering the meaning of toe lecture which had been read to them by the Hon. Member for Pomfret.—(Laughter.) He had stated that those who sat on that side of the House had no legitimate position. in the discussion, and that anything they stated was impertinent.--(Hear.) Neither did he Mr. Villiers) apprehend anything that had fallen from the Hon. Member for Bedford or the Hon Member who lad just sat down.—(Laughter.) He could not help th:e::ing that those Gentlemen who had talked of their consistency, and had given circulation to every fallacy, and misrepresented the opinions of their opponents, and the objects .of their policy having been successful in the course so pursued, were somewhat ashamed of the means I T which they had obtained their seats, and when they eame face to face with those whose policy and principles '_'.ley had assailed, they thought it wise and prudent to reaintain a dead silence. There was also some discretion, "hich was pretty obvious to the world, in not commiting themselves to their opinions, because that discretion had been observed elsewhere.-(Hear, hear.) Those vesre some of the reasons, that accounted for the silence • , tit had been observed, added to which it appeared to lean that it had bcoalotuld by come partici inconvenient to repeat the opinions they had before expressed. He could not have proposed to himself a duty, or rather have a duty imposed upon him more agreeable, of taking every opportunity of discussing matter relative to the Cornafa-ws. He should not be a party to that want of respect to the Speech delivered from the Throne. Concurring as he did entirely in the principles upon which the financial arrangements of the year had been proposed, and believing that those principles, if carried out further, would be attended with success, he should resist by every means in his power the opposite policy represented by that amendment. They could not shut their eyes to the opinions of the Hon. Member who moved the amendment, as he had recently expressed them in an important district. It was not any vague language about free trade, that would qualify his opinion on that. He thought that the Honour able Member for Yorkshire had been well put forward to represent his party.—(Hear, hear.) He considered the amendment had placed at issue in that House those matters which were in dispute in the coun try, and which the House was called together to de cide.—(Hear, hear.) The time had come that he had long foreseen, when the principle upon which the trade and taxation of the country was carried on absorbed the public mind. The cause was now ripe for hearing; the par ties were ascertained - there was on the one side the whole community, and the other the agriculturist and the aristocracy.—(Hear, hear.) The plea was vested interests, and the answer to that plea was vested robbery.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He was satisfied that the country at large would view with impatience the attempt made to divert the House from this subject for the more vulgar topics of party.—(Hear, hear.) He be lieved that the great majority of which the other side boasted might be traced to one section of the popular party having used them to chastise the other.—(Hear, hear.) They did not tell the Government they had been too democratic ; but they said you have broken your promises and forfeited your pledges.—(Hear, hear.) That was what the Hon. Member for Yorkshire had said. He said the Government had not kept their pro mises. With whom, he would ask ? Why, the people. He was disposed to agree with what the Hon. and Learned Member for Bath had said, that lie thought the Govern ment had shrunk from those principles which placed them in power ; but, at the same time, he could not condemn them to the extent that some did. There were two things that had been a source of weakness on the part of the Government. He alluded to their policy with respect to Ireland, and their advocacy of the New Poor-law Bill.—( Hear, hear.) He thought that the prejudices of the country against Ireland had been greatly ex aggerated, but it was impossible to deny that there was great prejudice against it. He trusted it was diminishing every day. —( Hear, hear.) He had no doubt that many had stated that they viewed the Noble Lord the Member for North Lanca shire coming into power with joy because they believed he would put down the lrish.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") With respect to the New Poor-law, nobody could deny that the Government were indebted for much of their unpopularity to their advocacy of that measure. He might say that they could have no purpose to serve in supporting that law if they did not think it an improvement of the old one. He himself thought the New Poor-law an improvement. He thought there was one cause of the unpopularity of the Government which he ought to notice, because he felt the truth of what had been remarked as to the measures which they lately proposed having suffered from their unpopularity. fie believed that the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies had been rather incautious in an expression which he permitted himself to use relative to the Reform Bill. He (Mr. V.) always thought that more had been made of that expression than there was any occa sion for. All the construction that he (Mr. V. ) put upon it was, that the Noble Lord, somewhat tempted by the confusion which he and his colleagues caused in bringing about that measure to allay the ferment that resulted, was disposed to be unneces sarily cautious in working out those principles which h e sa id they recognised. But he (Mr. Villiers) never believed that the Noble Lord would say that that measure, which was pro posed by the Noble Lord himself, whereby the people were to be represented freely and fully in that House, should cease. He could not suppose that the Noble Lord ever considered that the Reform Bill was to be a finallneasure. He believed that all the Noble Lord meant was that reform should be worked out cautiously and by degrees. That, however, was one great cause of the unpopularity of the Government. There was a disposition to condemn the Noble Lord, on ac count of the manner in which he had taken up those mea sures lately propounded by Ministers. The Noble Lord in his (Mr. Villiers's) belief acted in that manner—in every thing he had said or done, on the subject of the alteration in the Corn laws—from an honest conviction of the necessity cf the change. He (Mr. Villiers) could not give his support to the present opposition party, because he could not conceal from himself that they were coming into power in direct opposition to the principles of commercial freedom and free trade. He believed that the present miserable exhibition which the country pre sented of commerce paralysed, capital unemployed, and the people in the lowest state of wretched degradation, was to be traced to the system of restriction. He would call the atten tion of the House to the present distressed state of the people. It was not isolated cases—it was not individual cases of distress, which the Right Hon. Baronet pointed to as not leading to any just conclusion, that he would call atte n ti on t o . Th e evi dence which he held in 'hi, hand was evidence of distress in every department of traae. There seemed to be a disposition not to receive favourably anything stated by the Dissenting Clergy assembled at Manchester, but, as the Hon. Member for Stockport had stated, they were delegated by congregations who were suffering, and who directed them to proceed to a spot where the subject was likely to excite attention. In the docu ment which he held in his hand, the names of the persons and places were given, and it was quite competent for any person to satisfy himself of the truth and correctness of the statement. Every department of manufacture was included in the docu ment drawn up by the meeting at Mane.tester. Mining, hard ware, earthenware, hosiery; the silk, woollen, and cotton trade; glove-making, agriculture, &c. H', ; had selected th e co tt on trade from wich to give a specir - sen of the suffering state of the people. It was in the year 1837, when the price of food began to rise, and in that year 1,911 persons had received me dical relief from the dispensary of the district ; and in 1840 that number had increased to 3,072. That was in the district of Preston. In the seine district the number of deaths in 1838 amounted to 1, .09 ; in 1839 to 1.,277 ; and in 1 , i140 to 1739, which showed rit increase in the number of (lentils in that particular bransih of trade of 462. The clerk of the union, when applied to for the cause of that increase, stated that it was in a great measure owing to an insufficiency of food. In consequence elthe high price of food they were exposed to great privation s , which they bore with the greatest patience. The report els° stated that the greatest indifference was felt towards any constitutional efforts to obtain relief, such as pre sensing ' i retitions to that House. A similar state of things existed in Leeds, Coventry, Macclesfield, Nottingham, Shef field, Tewkesbury, Liverpool, Bridport, &c. That state of thin g s was naturally owing to the restrictions which were Pl'sced on their intercourse with other countries—restrictions '.which prevented their exchanging what they were able to pro duce for the food which could be received from those countries. He believed, if these restrictions were removed, the distress complained of would cease. He was sorry to find that the Right Hon. Baronet, the Member for Tamworth, and the Noble Lord, the Member for North Lancashire, had laboured to justify those who maintained that cause of distress. He had been led to expect, from what the Right Hon. Baronet did in that House, that when he had the power, he would use that power over his party to cause them to change their opinions. The Right Hon. Baronet was now on the eve of coming into power, and in his speech at Tamworth, on the occasion of the late elections, he laboured with ingenuity and talent to show that there were other causes of distress than those which were really so. The Right Hon. Baronet seemed to say that the Corn-laws were founded upon vital principles at com merce ; yet he could not deny the derangement they caused in the currency, and the export of bullion from the country which they occasioned. Whew the Right Hoh. Baronet said that the Corn-laws caused no harm, he told them that bullion might go out of the country that credit might be contracted—the Bank distressed—every m ant of obtaining comfort destroyed—yet that no evil should result. It was calculated that there was one million employed in agri culture, and that each family received about 201. a year ; and if that calculation was correct, there were 30,000,0 001. to be ex pended in some way or other. When wheat was 575. per quarter, at an average rate, the people were obliged to spend 7s. 6d. per week upon bread. Now, when the average price of wheat was 70s. per quarter, what could be left to men who earned but 10s. per week, and were obliged to spend 7s. 6d. out of that sum for bread? In Leicester and other places, where the people were supported by produciug things•from the agricultural labourers, there was now no demand for labour, and in consequence 14,000 persons, who were thrown out of employment, were dependent for support on the parish of Leicester.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He (Mr. Villiers) complained of the Right Hon. Baronet, and he complained much more of the Noble Lord the Member for North Lan cashire ; for he observed that the Right Hon Baronet had made something like an admission that the Corn-laws were not good. He confined himself to :showing to those whom he ad dresied that the Corn 'laws did not produce any distress ; but the Noble Lord, in the speech which he addressed to the people of Lancashire, laboured to show that the high price of provisions was an advantage. He (Mr. 'Villiers) could not believe that a man of any mind could honestly believe that. What ! was a man to go and tell the poor man that the less food there was in the country the better it would be for him— ( Hear)—that the more scarce provisions were the more the poor man would get —( Hear.) Why, there was nothing in witchcraft, nothing in the whole history of delusion, equal to that. They knew how it was that that delusion was attended wi t h success . I t was effected b y a use of terms. They told the pe op l e that wages would fall, and when the people learned that, they knew that their condition would be worse. They told those poor people it was the cruelty of those free traders, of t h ose advocates of heartless doctrines, that would ruin them, who would lower their wages, and who wanted to transfer them from the occupations to which they were bred, to those of which they were ignorant. That was what the Noble Lord endeavoured to im press on the people's minds. The Noble Lord also expressed one of those fallacies which was used during the war to enable t h e people to bear taxation, and that was, that if the landlord received high rents, it would give them the means of employing more labourers- Th at was the old doctrine. It was first started, he believed, by Mr. Vunsittart. The Noble Lord contended that the highe r the rents were th e more wou ld l andlords b e enab outtheir p led tc emPloy a greater n um b er of grooms and gardeners to lay le as u re- g rounds, an d i f the Corn-laws Were repeated the landlo rds would be obliged to reduce their ex penses, V.) would ask, a h n e d all those persons to penses, and consequently they should employ less number of commu nitys sourcthionsyotrifptahtehysbewni t a h bo e cuornerdsitoionntohfeirtheestaptoeos.r wWeaalenrso,t, whom he referred. to be at not form considered? Were they not humanto whose means essential to look? He could not conceive bow there was supportn it t w o a b s a o Did they for the gardeners and grooms, and none for the be more explicit weavers as to what h e Really, the Noble Lord sh ould protection — (Cheers)--and t o di. before he meant by the principle of cinetly announce to the country,took power, and policy prop osed, what he meant by when he objected to the those principles—(Hear, hear) — beeause he told them that his confidence, he was a disciple of Mr. Huskisson, and was in and, as his lion. Friend had said, he ca me forward i n .I r. Huskisson's mantle.—( Hear, hear.) A great deal was sa i d about Mr. Huskisson; and he (Mr. Villiers) did not mea n to sayhis opinions that Vr. Huskisson was not obliged to square by the scale of his party ; but he (Mr • Villiers) contended 1 to the principle that the current of his opinions was opposer trade.—( Cries of of protection, and in favour of free to " Hear, hear.") He (Mr. Villiers) did not . mean le.; he say, that after he had propounded those principles, Mr. had riot sanctioned opposite principles ; but if they quitted _ f Huskisson, they should state what his real opinions l were. they would look to his speeches in 1825-6, or to his last speech _ee h in the House on the state of the nation, they would find that they had no business to quote those opinions which he had sup ported hen in the Government. Sir R. PEEL—Look to his speeches in 1827 and 1828. Mr. VILLIERS continued.—He (Mr. Villiers) had said, that when called upon to sipe what Mr. Huskisson's opinions a h were, and what he thoughtc country should act on, those opinions should be ascertained. 'I hey knew he was charged in that House, in a most violent speech, by a Gen tleman who sat on the Libreral side, in much the same manner as the Noble Lord had been charged. He was charged as one altogether regardless of the rest of the world, and on THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY, AUGUST 28, 1841. that what did he do ? He then expouned his principles, and for bread and they received but stones. They came to that 'vindicated himself from being a wild theorist. He read a pe- House boasting of the triumph over a Ministry which would tition, presented from the merchants of London, and read one alter the Corn-laws. For his own p ar t h e s h ou ld o b serve t h at passage to prove that his opinions were identified with theirs. he would only receive the Ministerial plan of an Bs. duty as an This passage was, " Freedom from restraint is calculated to instalment of the debt of justice due to the people with a full give extension to trade, and the best direction of the capital determination upon the first possible opportunity of getting rid and industry of the country—that of a number of protective of all protection.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") The duties. It might be proved that while all operated as a tax on question now at issue, was between them and tleepeople, the community, few operated on behalf of the classesfrom whom whether they would impose an impost on food—whether they they were instituted, and none to the extent of the loss occa- would increase their own rents by increasing the price of that sior.ed to other classes--( Hear, hear)—that in thus declaring without which human existence could not be maintained.—( A their opinion of the restrictive system, they had in view only . cry of " No, no," from the Opposition benches.) He said those parts not connected with the public revenue, for so long yes, yes, and their continuance of the plan which led to star as., the public necessity existed, they could not expect so im- elation in spite of the evidence read by hi s H on . F r i en d th e portant a branch to be given up, but it was again s t all prot ec - ! Member for Wolverhampton, showing an accumulation of dis lion not essential for our revenue they offered the petition which ease and death, as the result of d ear w h eat an d scarc it y o f they respectfully submitted to Parliament. "—(Cheers.) food proved the fact. Let them talk as they might please ; Now he (Mr. Villiers) wished to call the attention of the let them boast of their triumph ; they should come round to Noble Lord, the disciple of Mr. Huskisson; to what he said on the question between themselves aril the people of England-- the subject of taxation. He said on the principle of the i whether the people were to pay millions a year more than any petition, he and the Government with which he acted, had other country for the price of food. Those laws had a double proposed their recent measures. " But I say," said he, "as aspect of ini d uity. While they increased the price of the I always have said, that those- who, either by their speeches pour man's meal they checked the progress of manufacturing in Parliament, or the exertions of their talents out of it, have industry, because if foreign grain were to be imported in ex contributed to bring the people of England to look with an eye change for manufactures, manufacturing prosperity would in of favour to the principles in the petition, have done them- t crease. They were therefore diminishing labour on the one selves the greatest honor and the country especial benefit."— hand, and on the other they increased the price of food, and (Cheers.) That was Mr. Huskisson's opinion of that petition, j then they came forward with lamentations on the national dis and he (Mr. V.) said that he had a right to identify him with tress. But the problem was how that distress was to be re the principle in that petition, and his opinions therefore were fleeted. Let them try a repeal of the laws affecting the consuinp. against all protecting duties.—(Hear, hear.) There was no i tion of corn. He . srecollected a story of a Frenchman who sense in comparing protection with prohibition. It might be 1 could not fatten his horse, he had tried spice, and every luxury, limited, but still prohibition was one thing and protection I when somebody asked him did he ever try oats.—(Hear, hear, another.--( Hear, hear.) But protection was faulty in princi- and laughter.) Now, he should say, let them give up all other ple—(Cheers)—and he said that it would be sound po- experiments, and let them try bread for the poor.—( Hear, Hey to abolish all restrictions not essential for revenue.— hear.) Let them give the poor man food, and then if (Cheers.) He was afraid he was apt to dwell on this he did not thrive, he (Mr. CT.) would go to some ;quack subject at too great length, but he wished to justify the support jdoctor for a remedy for the case.—( Hear, hear, and he gave to the Noble Lord (Lord John Russell), and which, laughter.) Every body knew that one of the great mis until he heard an exposition of his policy from the Right Hon. takes made in the Reform Bill was that it augmented Baronet (Sir Robert Peel) ;he must withhold from him. the county representation, while it narrowed the town consti- He did not despair of the progress, of his' opinions.—(Hear, tuencies, and it was to that circumstance he attributed the as hear.) Hardly a day passed in which he] did; note hear cendancy of the party opposite, and the triumph at the elee of fresh convert s, while he never heard of one who had been tions. The majority opposite consisted almost entirely of Eno convinced changing his opinions. He did not in the least re- lish county Members, and he (Mr. O'Connell) complained gret the change in the Government that was about to take then, as he had frequently complained before, that the Reform' place, for he believed it would be highly important to this Ministry had disappointed the just exrectations of the people, change of policy—that it was absolutely necessary 'for and that they had not worked out their own measure until all the ultimate success of those measures. He knew I parties were fairly represented i:i that House. What he com that the Right Hon. Baronet's only chance of retaining power plained of in their policy was, that they had given an incontes was his converting the community.—( Cheers.) He was happy tible preference to the landed interest over the manufacturing to observe, highlytapproving, as he did, of the dissolution, the and commercial interests of the dountry ; and accordingly the attention that had been drawn to the subject. He was grati- I present Parliament insisted upon dear bread—they insisted fled with the result—(Opposition cheers really was. lie upon a bread-tax. What other merit had the party opposite had not come there to serve a party object. It was the inte- I but the advocacy of the existing Corn-laws in the eyes of the rest he took in politics, and his wish to serve those who sen people of England? Let the two great parties who had governed him there, that actuated him in what he did ; and looking this country for years be contrasted. Let them look to th e Ad at the progress which the question had mare, he really was ministration of the presgnt Government during the last ten satisfied.—(Hear.) It was only by constant discussion they years. Ministers had done much to arnelio:ate the condition could advance their principles, and he was ready to act, as the of the country. They had increased its branches, and no one Right Hon. Member for Renfrewshire had said, and to work could forget, now that they were parting with power, the great day and night. to . elicit all the facts that bore upon the benefits they had conferred upon the British nation.—(hear, question. He could net sit down without first drawing hear.) They had humanized the law. They had almost to the attention of the House and the country to the tally abolished the hideous and uncivilizing punishment of extreme responsibility which would attach to thh death.—(llear, hear.) They had practically abolished that Right Hon. Member for Tamworth, supposing him to be punishment in cases where it had frequently been applied be called upon to form a new Government. He would have fore, and they had, therefore, mitigated the law where miti power to do what he thought proper. lie (Mr. V.) believed gation was most required. Perhaps the same might be said of from his moral influence with his party, he would be able to some of the Administrations that had preceded them. But convert them to his own opinions if he should change them on other Administrations had merely abolished the punishment of our commercial policy, and ke believed he would have power death in cases where it had never been applied. But the in both branches of the Legislature to carry out what he might abolition of the punishment of death effected by the present propose. Therefore, whatever advantage might follow from Ministry was practical, and had nearly brought to an end that maintaining the present system or from changing it, on him horrible and un-Christian system. They had also wiped out would he the entire responsibility or credit. If the I that stain on the criminal law which permitted Counsel people went on in their present miserable condition— for the Crown to speak as often as they might if commerce languished, if our foreign trade was checked think fit, while the Counsel for the prissier could and impeded—he said the whole and entire responsibility would speak but once. That was a measure of great importance, attach to the Right Hon. Baronet. He believed it would be although it had been shorn of part of its utility in the House in his (Sir Robert Peel's) power to change the whole system ; of Lords, where a clause had been introduced, allowing two but if he had determined to maintain the presesent system. he speeches to Counsel for the Crown, and only one to Counsel ought to assign some reason why it should not be changed.— for the prisoner. The Ministry had still the credit of amelio (Cheers. ) rating the law in that respect, and they were therefore en- Lord F. EGERTON said he could assure the House that titled so far to the gratitude of the country. They had done whatever might be the opinions of other Members on his side more, they had increased the circulatio n of knowl e d ge o f ever y of the House as to the course the d e bat e oug ht to take, kind throughout thecountry,by diminishing the stamp duty upon he had not presumed to object to the proceedings of any Gen- i newspapers, and periodical publications, from fourpence to one tleman of the other side who had chosen to consider it his duty penny. It should not be forgotten that they had done those to enter upon the consideration of the subjects which were in things. One of the great advantages of the change he had his opinion not the immediate subject of debate before the mentioned, was that they had put an end to the temptation to House. He had listened with deep and painful attention to j violate the law, by selling unstamped publications. They had the speeches of those gentlemen immediately connected with formerly seen men summoned before Magistrates for diffusing the districts in which so much distress prevailed, and which he knowledge, because the publication was uns:amped. Those had witnessed, and if he did not. enter into the discussions as to i scenes were now at an end. He rejoiced to think, that the cause of those evils and of their immediate remedy, he if the party opposite had triumphed over Ministers, they trusted it would not he supposed those great and important could not deprive them of the glory of their past services. questions were not fit subjects for the early consideration of the There was another measure of great public utility to which he House. He was of opinion that in the present state of the civi- wished to adver t—he meant the penny postage.—( Hear, hear ) h zed world, not only in that House but in every deliberative assem- The reduction of the newspaper stamp duty had allowed the bly, the intelligence and acuteness of statesmen and men of learn- circulation of information ; the reduction of the postage duty ing should be pararnountly called to the consideration of the I had allowed the circulation of the affections. It tended to great problem, which certainly pressed the more society i maintain the ties between the absent parent and his child ; it advanced, namely, how by human means they could at once bound brother to brother in distant parts of the world ; and, increase and distribute the produce of the earth, so as to for the first time, it brought within the reach of the poorest meet the exigencies and peculiar circumstances, especially of a person a mode of communication formerly confined to the country which possessed a large manufacturing population.— . rich. Under the former system, a labourer paid one-third of ( Hear, hear.) To this subject far be it from him, even on his week's earniogs, and he was thus placed in painful contrast that occasion, to object ; but he must fairly say, that he did with the man of fortune, who did not pay a thousandth part of not think its discussion, on such an occasion as the present, his weekly revenuefor communicating withhisfamilyandsriends. when the Government of the country was in so anomalous and He would not dwell upon the advantages which they had con singular a condition, would tend to promote their object.— ferred upon trade and commerce by their measures for break (Cheers.) He could assure the House that he would nut pro- ing up the East India monopoly, and opening the trade with ceed to the consideration of that which he considered to be China.—( Hear, hear.) They had done much more by their the question before the House, in any tone of offensive destruction of religious monopolies—(Cheers)—by permitting triumph or recrimination. He considered that he should only the Baptists, and Quakers, and all other Dissenters to perform perform his duty to those constituents who sent him 'there, their religious ceremonies without the intervention of ptiest- , and consult their feelings and wishes, in giving his support'to ihood, whose mission they deified.—(Cheers.) In Ireland the amendment proposed to the Address. He was aware that they had stricken off one-fourth of the entire burden of tithes. objections had been made to the course adopted, and that it (Hear, hear.) They would have done more, if the Opposi had been said by the Hon. Members for Leeds lion now coming into office would have allowed them.—( Hear, and Finsbury, that they had been guilty of disrespect hear.) In giving up the Appropriation Clause, they did no to her Majesty in adopting it. But on former occasions he had more than he would have advised, when they found that it heard long discussions on the Address when he set on the other was impossible to carry with it any other good side of the House, ar.d when Hon. Gentlemen opposite who which their measure contained. —( Hear, hear.) That then sat on his side claimed the privilege of dealing with his was not the whole of their claims. In England they had abo- A:ajesty's speech as the speech of his Majesty's Ministers. It lished 115 rotten boroughs, in Ireland they abolished 15. was only as such it could he dealt with.—(Cheers.) But the (Cheers.) When he compared their policy in Ireland with President of the Board of Trade had objected to the course that o f the p a rty which was about to succeed them, the con pursued in moving a vote of want of confidence, and had said tract was painful.—('Cheers.) 'They had effected the emanei that they should in the first instance explain all they meant to patio,' of 800,000 slaves.—(Great cheering.) Mr, Pitt in the do, supposing they came into power. In his (Lord F. E.' s ) height of his p ower attempted to effect that o bj ec t, an d a l wa y s opinion, his Right Hon. Friend had acted wisely in not enter- , failed.—( Hear, hear se `si'd The Wtim, the same party which ing upon such an explanation. The Chancellor of the Exchequer was now in office, eV try eige..., months in power, and in said they were about to perform the play of H am l e t, omitting that time they sudgeWed in abolishiug the slave trade— the principle character. But he told the Chancellor 'of the (Cheers)—and tlidy 1. taught all the nations of the earth Exchequer that they did not wish to perform the play at all . that slavery could be abolished with safety. —( Hear, bear. ) until they had got a company properly arranged.—(Cheers.) ' He would not dwell upon their conduct in Ireland. It was He did know how anybody knew that his Bight Hon. Friend : enough to say that they had given that country nearly ten years was to address the House as a Minister of the Crown. How of complete repose. (Cheers.) They selected men for office, did they know it ? If they knew it, it would be because for not on account of their religion, but of their merits.—( Hear. ) ten years past every question that came before the House had He thanked them, in the name of Ireland, for the good they been so ably dealt with by the Right Hon. Baronet—nihil had done, and more for the good which hey would have done, legebatquod non excerperet—k Hear)—and consequently the opi- if the party opposite had not prevented them.—( Great cheer nion prevailed that if Ministers resigned, his Right Honourable ing-) He would not stop to complain of their not doing what Friend would be at the head of their successors. If he they might have done. He would not now complain of their might presume to advise a contingent minute of the Crown ; not having extended the franchise to the operatives, who, in anti, if his Right Hon. Friend would tike his advice, it would spite of all that could be done by the ether side of the House, be to avoid any intimation of the speech he was about to make, must soon possess it. But, he would oak, when had the which he thought would be unwiee and inexpedient.—( Hear, Tories been the advocates of freedom, civil or religious ? He hear.) With respect to the grounds on which the House and told them only what the Whigs had done in ten years. He the country had withdrawn its confidence from the Ministry, asked, what had the Gentlemen opposite done in the whole he thought that if the Chancellor of the Exchequer was not century during which they held office ?—( Hear, hear.) They satisfied with the five nights' discussion which had taken place, . opposed the freedom of the negroes as much as they could, and he must he a very difficult Chancellor of the Exchequer to they only gave way in that case, as in the case of religious satisfy.—(Cheers.) He did not believe the events that had liberty, when they were overborne by the sense of the country. occurred, since the House came to a vote of no confidence, When they enlarged the liberty of the people of England, had at all improved the condition of the Government, they diminished that of Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) They dimi- The Hon. Member for Finsbury had made, as he (Sir F. nished it so far that even the coming curse of Lord Stanley's Egerton) could not help thinking, an unfair allusion to the ! Bill was not necessary to annihilate it.—(Cheers.) After Right Hon. Baronet, the Member for Tamworth, in 1835. four years of arduous struggle, the people of Ireland obtiined Now, in his (Sir F. Egerton's) opinion, the failure of the Corporation Reform, and what was it when they did get it ? Right lion. Baronet upon that occasion was equivalent to Bristol, with a smaller population had a municipal constituency the success of others under similar circumstances. And as it of 15,000, and Dublin (as we understood) had no more than had been said of the Emperor Napoleon, that his career, when 5,000.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Evesham, in dictating to kingdoms, redounded loss to his glory than his his compassion for the people of Ireland, heaven help us, la conduct during that last and disastrcus campaign in which h e merited the agitation which distracted them.—( A laugh- ) vainly contended against Europe in arms; so w..s there nothing Why, that agitation was the real gri e vance, if the Hon. Mem in the career of the Right Hon. B a ro ne t w hi c h inflected ber for Evesham had only the wit to perceive it.—(Cheers and upon him more credit than his conduct during hid unsuccessful laughter.) No one regretted the agitation or the causes of it Administration in 18:35.—(Opposition Cheers.) He( LordF.E.) more than he did.—(Hear, hear, hear.) If there were doubted, however, whether posterity would pronounce the same •in that House that English spirit which, he (eared, had ' verdict upon the present proceedings of the Noble Lord, the almost evaporated ; what would their feelings be if leader of that House. For his part, he could not but think Ireland abridged their rights by one-third ?—(Hear, hear.) that the conduct of the Noble Lord in dissolving the last Par- , If' they said they would net submit to it., he claimed their sym liament was either a miscalculation or a fault. He thought I rattly, and told them that the people of Ireland would not en that that course was sufficient to justify the want of confidence dure the wrong.—(Cheers.) When the liberties of the people of the country in the judgment, if not in the principle, of the ! of England were assailed, they struck off the head of one . Noble Lord.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble : Lord no doubt h a d , monarch, and they drove another an exile and a beggar been anxious to weed the manufacturing districts of some ob- through the nations of Europe. Who were the party that sup noxious plants. But the Noble Lord was not probably aware ported the tyrants? Why the Tories.—( Hear, hear.) Who that in that operation he might mow down some of the flowers opposed the House of Hanover as long as it was friendly to of his own flock. The people of England had thought in some I the people ?—(Cheers.) Who had exhibited the strongest cases that neither wealth nor accomplishment, nor spotless private symptoms of disloyalty during the present reign ?—( Tremen character, nor unimpeachable public integrity could atone for I dous cheering.) The Tories.—(Renewed cheering.) What a warm adherence to the opinion,s and a constant participation odious calumnies, what base slanders have they not propagated? in the measures of the Noble Lord. In one instance, at least, —(Cheers.) It might have been thought that the youth of which he could name, the claims of high rank and wealth, and her Majesty, if not her station, would have engaged their sym the still higher claims of unsullied character and virtue, had patties and disarmed their malice.—(Cheers, responded to failed to receive the suffrages of a great constituency.—( Hear, by cries of " oh, oh," and laughter from the Tory benches.) hear.) But that Noble Lord, he should add, had yielded to What ! did they deny it? Why, when royalty was toasted his fall with a grace and dignity which extorted the applause of at their feasts, did they not insult her ?—( Cheers.) Did his very enemies, and by the touching eloquence of his parting they not make a marked preference of another member of accents had diminished that shout of triumph which might he the Royal Family? Be learned from the printed reports of natural, in the hour of victory, over an ordieary or a vulgar their festivals, that when the health of the Queen had been foe.—(Cheers.) What conclusion could he draw from cases toasted with cold ceremony, the health of another lady was such as this? His conclusion was, that if he concurred with his given with three times three and the accompaniment of the Hon. Friend in the amendment he had moved to the Address .Kentish fire.—(Cheers.) It certainly made him open his he would be only doing that which would meet the command, eyes with astonishment, that the people of England could and he would add the wishes of those who had sent him to that be so blind as _they had shown themselves at the late election. House—who had sent him there strong, not in his own strength but in the approbation of the public. The victory he had obtained was not, he was aware attributable, to any merit of his own in triumphing over the state of an agitation, which was not always moderate in its tone or very scrupulous in its statt ments of facts. In his success he felt no undue feeling of triumph, and he alluded to it only because it afforded an instance 01 what he considered public opinion in the country upon the subject then before the House.—( Cheers. ) Mr. O'CONNELL rose and said, that the Noble Lord who had just sat down had distinctly stated that it was beyond all controversy that deep distress prevailed among the manu facturing community.—( Hear, hear.) Whether the pleasant ries which the Noble Lord mixed up with his refusal to discuss the questions connected with that distress, were well placed, it was not for him ( Mr. 0. Connell) to decide. The subject itself was one of the deepest:importance. and he claimed that deference for his own opinions upon the subject of the Corn-laws, that he stood there as the Repre sentative of two of the largest agricultural constituencies in the country.—( Hear.) He stood before them as the Repre sentative of more than one million of the inhabitants of Ire land. Two constituencies had returned him to that House without canvas or solicitation—without his personal presence, or without his having asked for a single vote, though at the same time they were well aware of his opinions on the subject of the Corn-laws. It was not his habit to conceal his opinions, and no opinion of his was better known in the counties which he represented than that he was totally opposed to the present Coi u-law. On their testimony he would meet the statement of the Hon. Member who sits for Waterford. It had been clearly proved that the Irish people set no value upon the su;posed benefit of the Corn-laws to agriculture. Indeed Ireland afforded an illustration of the fallacy of some of the topics argued in sup port of those laws It had been said that the Corn-laws in creased the rate of wages, but if they could produce that effect anywhere, it would surely have been in Ireland.—( Hear. ) What, however, hail been the case? Ireland had the full beiletit of those laws, and yet her people had the lowest rate of wages known in any part of the globe.—( Hear, hear.) Ire land was purely an a.Ticuitural country, for England had taken care that s h e should' not he a manufacturing country. The Corn-laws, faled in producing prosperity in Ireland. For his part he could not hut consider it as a robbery of the operative in order to insure high price to the landlord.—( Hear, hear.) The law was merely an impost upon the bread of the poor ; for, if it had not raised the price of bread it would never have received their support. It was said that the problem was a difficult one of determining the mode of relieving the distresses of the working-classes. Rut in his opinion nothing was clearer than that an increase in the quantity would be, a true mode of alleviating that distress. They refused, however to allow cheapness of p; ice, while th e y came f orw a r d with dolo rous lamentation upon the sufferings of the people. The people would laugh at the mockery of sueb. rotestations, They asked —(Cheersandlaughter.) But how was the returns obtained? There never was such gross bribery practised since the world began.— (Cheers andlaughter. ) He would take the Tory organ, the Tiracs (Great laughter)—which made no question of the bribery.— (Hear, hear.) It was no doubt false that the country was gained over by 300,0001., and that the Times was a liar of the first magnitude.—(Loud cheering and laughter.) They had gained a triumph over the Irish people in the elections, and (as we understood) their hatred was gratified.—(Much interrup tion.) Est humani generis odisse quern losere.—(Cheering.) He wished them joy of their majority ; but they would never have gained it if they had not engaged the sordid selfishness of the landed interest.—(Cheers, and " Oh, oh.") The farmers were persuaded that the repeal of the Corn-laws would be their ruin.—(Opposition cheers.) They might cheer ; for there they stood, the avowed enemies of civil and religious and commercial freedom.—(Laughter and cheers.) They hated and perse cuted, solely for her religion, Ireland, which was their right arm in war, and the greatest source of their prosperity in the time of peace. The religion of II eland was the only pretence for the injustice, and he defied them to place it upon any other ground.—(Cheers.) Well, they were now going to govern Ireland.—(Laughter.) Well, who are they to have ? ( Renewed laughter.) Were they to have the Orange flag again waving over the head of the Lord Lieutenant.—(Cheers from the Liberal Members, and counter-cheering from the' orks. ) '1 he man who waved that flag was punished for it in three years after sards, for the Right Hon. Baronet oppo site called him in that House a vagabond—( Great laughter).— but the vagabond got a place, and he kept it from that day to this.—( Hear, hear, hear.) The present Government had certainly no: clone much for Ireland. But they had kept it in tranquillity.—(lmmense cheering on both sides of the House.) Gentlemen might cheer and scoff; but their derision cheers would have no effect, but to irritate his spirit.— ( Great cheers.) How did they obtain their majority? liy all vile means, by bribery, corruption, intimidation, fraud, at the last assizes there were more criminal cases in delusion, an d li es . —(Ch eers .) Hae tibi fuerunt arses.._ ( Cheers.) B u t w h a t h a d b een the result of the Whig Goyern mem.Why,Liverpool th an i n a il I re l an d, an d the convictions there were double those la hick took place in all Ireland.- - ( Great (beets. ) What were they now going to do? They were going to take into office the Noble Lord, of whom it was said that his popu larityin this c o un try an d his influence in this House were owing to his avowed hatred of Ireland and of the Irish people. Ireland was determined to right her wrongs, and vindicate her claims to equality.—(Hear, hear.) When he thought of the sacrifices they made to purify the stream of justice there.— ( oh)—he gave them the greatest credit. Could any person suppose for a moment that he would vote for a Minis try that would not go so far for so high and holy a purpose—one I which was not carried into effect by any Administration that ever preceded them. What would they doe . Would they re ot9re the *heriff of Fermanagh ?--(Loud cheera) ~No, they , . need not, for they would find enough of the same description in the same district.—(Cheers.) Would they venture to re new the packing of Juries ? He was sorry to hear an instance that lately occurred in Ireland of Jury-packing. It was a fatal precedent, which would be caught at as an excuse by the party opposite. He was sincerely sorry for this, as it would afford an opportunity of again insulting a people whom they had so long slighted, and of making their religion a subject of paltry exclusion.--( Hear, hear.) They may take every method to silence her, and when they have silt need her, they may imagine they have tranquillized her. Mistake him not. There was but one safety-valve for them, and that was to allow her grievances and her voice expression.—( Cheers.) Yes, it was the con trast between England and Ireland which returned them there. They were triumphant, their majority was owing to that cause, and how long they may retain their majority it was not for him to say. But there were many gloomy prospects before them at home and abroad. They had a vast and starving popula'ion— they had desolation in the manufacturing districts, and the very air of their cite was frightful. —( Cheers.) Commerce was languishing, and the nations of Europe, seeing the transition that was taking place, would judge between the friends of freedom and those who were opposed to all liberty and improvement.—(Cheers.) Would they behold that state of things which had becn spoken of by the Hon. Member for Waterford—he hoped not prophetically—that all naions de pending on commerce for their prosperity fell sooner or later into decay and dissolirion ? Should that befal them their fall would indeed be a great one ; but it should at least be recollected, what was true of all times, that the higher any nation rose the more enemies it made. And England had many enemies, who were anxiously w:shing for her downfall. Power was, in its nature, unpopular. It was impossible for power to satisfy the expecte' ions:of every body, and they would not be long in power when they would be sub jected to the same criticism they so unsparingly lavished on others.—(Cheers.) Their . all.ance with the Chartists would soon be at an end.—(oh, oh, and loud cheers.) Any thing rather than Whiggery, said the Learned Member for Win. chester. Was not that a Chartist cry? —(Loud cheers ) They were instrumental in bringing in the Tories. Their cry was, " !if we bring the Tories once into power, they will multiply the Chartists over the lend."—( Laughter and cheers.) But was there not a substantial grievance on the part of the people of England.—(Loud cheers.) Was there not an aril. tocratic master class, and was therls not an immense majority in the situation of a slave class ?—(Cheers. ) Were there not 25 per cent. only who had the franchise in Englond, and 75 per cent. who were excluded?—( ) Were they not aware of the injustice of that? Were they not aware the people ascribed their misery to their position. It may be that post hoc was not proptu leoc, but in this case it was the duty of a philosophic statesman to look upon it and leg:slate fur it as for cause and effect.—(Cheers.) They tell you their misery arises from the want of sufficient and cheap food.—( Hear, hear.) These causes are broadly stated by them as the soerces of their wretchedness. These who were anxious for the Reform Bill, and who complained of its failure, felt the cause of that failure was owing to its limited extent, and that the features which were good in it. were not sufficient to make cor ruption unavailing.—(Cheers.) He knew the Ballot was re fused, which would have prevented bribery and intimidation, whatever good beside it may have effected.—( Hear, hear.) Blame the Ministry for the state of the finances if they would. He admitted they were entangled and in a state of great dis tress. They proposed a plan which was not accepted, but what will you do ?—( Hear, hen:.) What is your remedy ? More taxes. Pe;coule not wish for evil that good might come of it, but if he did he would wish for more taxes.—( Cheers. ) There was one thing, beyond all question, that never did any party come into power under greater difficulties.—( Hear, hear.) Surrounded with more dangers than almost any Ministry, they had little of the mens divinior to extricate themselves from. their difficulties.—(Cheers.) Anti he would conclude by say ing that if misfortune accompanied that Ministry, men's in firmities afforded a good opportunity for redress, and they would be compelled sooner or later to do justice to Ireland. Sir R. PEEL rose and said—Sir, if I felt more acutely than in feet 1 do, either for myself or for the party withwhich 1 am connected, the weight of the censure and vituperation of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, I still could find some source of consolation, for whatever may be his abuse of the Tory party rim, it falls infinitely short of that which he has lavished on his beloved Whigs.—(Loud cheering.) The Honourable and Learned Gentleman has, in point of fact, reduced himself to that position in which his praise and cen sure are of equal value.--(Continued cheers.) If these are the men who hail so governed Ireland, who for ten years had given it that great peace and happiness of which you speak, what could have justified you in abusing them, in calling them " the base, the bloody, and the brutal Whigs"—( Great cheer ing.) S 1 lien you seek to account for the cause of the difficulty and embarrassments which they have experienced, let me ask you if yin do not bear in mind that. there is not one dis tinguished man of that party, who has not had the honour of your vituperation.—(Loud cheers.) For ten years vou say they have governed Ireland, and preserved tranquil lity, security, and order. During four years of that period my Noble Friend was the Secretary for Ireland.—(Loud cheers.) For four out of those ten years that man, whose ad vent to power you now deprecate, was the immediate agent of the Whig, Administration.—(Loud cheers.) I ask you, is it the feet that these men have so well deserved of Ireland, and if it is, what could be your motives anti objects in increasing their difficulties and embarrassments in the Government of that country, in trying to create a prejudice against them in Ireland, by the use of every calumnious expression which an imagination, fertile in calumny, could devise ?—( Loud Tory cheers.) I am sorry to find myself thus led away ; but I think I have received provocation sufficient--(Loud cheers, which drowned the remainder of the sentence.) It is my earnest wish, and I hope I may be able to fulfil my intention, to dis cuss the question before the House in a spirit and temper becom ing to great an occasion, and the mighty interests which are at present at stake.—( Loud cheers.) I have now been in oppo sition to Hon. Gentlemen opposite, with a brief interval of office, for a period of nearly ten yeais ; and I have 'attempted to conduct that opposition—at the same time unreservedly on every occasion giving a frank expression of my opinion--an opinion generally in direct contradiction to measures proposed by the Hon. Gentlemen opposite-1 say I have, on every oc casion, endeavoured to conduct that opposition without acri• mony, without rancour, and with the absence of every thing like a feeling of personal hostility.—(Loud cheers ) if when I was placed in that situation, in opposition, where some degree of latitude is necessarily allowed, I endeavoured to act in the mariner which I have described, is it probable that on the pre sent occasion, when according to the publicly expressed opinion of the House that opposition is likely to be attended with success, I should be betrayed into the adoption of a course different from that which I have pursued during the whole of that period.— (Cheers.) Sir, it is (lateral that on the present occasion, if 1 looked merely to party differences, I should feel all the exul tation of a party triumph ; but, Sir, when I look to the great questions which have been submitted to our consideration—if 1 consider the grave and important consequences which are anticipated as being about to follow from the debate to-night—(Cheers)—if I consider that the destinies of this great country, as far as the Administrative Go- ' vernment is concerned, may be committed to other hand-1 say that those who, apparently, according to public opinion, may be called upon to the exercise of that power, ought to survey the position of public affairs with feel ings far more elevated than those of party triumph.—( Loud cheers.) I hope that, if the anticipations of Hon. Gentlemen are likely to prove correct—that if it is likely that I may be called upon to take any part in the conduct of public affairs— that I shall be actuated by feelings far different from those of party triumph. Without any feeling of unmanly fear—with out shrinking from the resnonsibility which may be imposed upon me—l cannot but contemplate office with an awful sense of the immense responsibility which must devolve on those who may be called upon to administer the affairs of this country— ' ( Cheersj—and the sense of that responsibility would bealone ficient to prevent my indulging in anything like a feeling of party rancour or party exultation.—( Loud cheers.) I will now brifly advert to those parts of the Address on which there is no great difference in opinion ; and, first, the House expresses its satisfaction to hear that the temporary separation which, in consequence of the quadruple treaty, had taken place between France and the other Powers, which were parties to that treaty, had happily ceased. No man can hear with more sin cere satisfaction than I do that that separation has ceased.— (Loud cheers.) No man can hear with more cordial satisfac tion than I do that France has been enabled, consistently with what is due to her honour, to enter again into the great Council of Europe—( Loud cheers)—and I hope that this rcs'ora tion of amicable relations is, not a mere formal restoration of diplomatic relations, but that it has been accom panied by a restoration of those feelings of amity, and that cor dial good understanding between this country and France which is no essential to the peace of Europe and the tranquillity of the world.—(Loud cheers.) I have read with the greatest satisfaction the sentiments which have been recently expressed by one so truly deserving the character of a great statesman as the statesman who now holds the important situation of Minister of France.—(Cries of " Hear," and loud cheers. ) It is with great satisfaction that 1 have read his frank declara tion, that he rejoiced in the prospect of a renewal of that cordiality which had heretofore subsisted betweeu France and England—('fory cheers)—and that he trusted that the union of the two people, so essential to the preser vation of the , peace of Europe, would still continue to subsist, and that if one word were to escape from him tending to interrupt that harmony, he should consider himself undeserving of forgivness.—(Cheers.) I frankly also reciprocate those sentiments—(Loud cheers) — for a cordial union between all the great countries of Europe. —(Loud cheers.) It is the first great interest of all the European Powers to attend to the preservation of peace.- --(Loud cheers.) Is not the time come, I would ask, when it is is the power of the different European Powers to reduce their military force.—( Loud cheers.) Of what use can it be, I would ask, for any one power grea'ly to increase its naval or its military armaments? There is no increase whatever in its real strength in conse quence, for one universal armament throughout every country is the necessary result, depriving peace of one half of its advantages, and anticipating the energies of war when war may hare become necessary.—(Cheers.) I know that there is a romantic notion entertained by some persons in regaid to this subject ; bat I would say, let each nation examine the state of its finances, and then ask itself what danger it may he in from any armed aggression of its neighbours, and compare that danger with the danger it may run from aggravating the feelings of its own population by the increase in taxation necessary to support• these armaments; and the answer must be, thatthe danger from foreign aggression is infinitely less than that from internal discontents produced from these causes.—( Loud cheers.) Is it not a fair presemption, therefore, that the tittle interest of Europe is for all the Powers to come to one torn - anon accord, so as to enable every country to reduce its military establishments, which at present consti tute a force rather belonging to a state of war than to a state of peace.--(Loud cheers.) In the councils of every country of Europe, and, in the public mind, which, throughout Europe, now necessarily influences those councils, a great revolut iota has taken place (Agate years. Twenty-five years of peace have pro. duced a great revolution in public opinion. Now, let us take the case of France. What country in Europe is there which would wish to see France curtailed of its just limits ?—( Cheers. ) I know that it has of late been a common feelink throughout France that there existed in England a feeling of determined hostility against that country. Now, the idea that there is any such feeling existing in this cower) , is a complete mis • take.—(Loud cheers from ail parts of the House.) I feel convinced that throughout this country ninety men out of every hundred entertain no other wish than that France should consolidate her institutions on the firmest possible basis.— (Loud cheers.) It France should be subjected to unjust ag gression her security will be not in the number of her regi ments, but in the mind. the energy, and the public spirit of the nation. In such a case France would rise with the energy of one man and repel the aggressor.—( Loud cheers.) Let us look now at another great country, divided by political institution 3 into separate States—l mean Germany. Public opinion and public mind is every day making progress throughout. Ger many, and from Hamburgh to the Tyrol, from Iserlin to the southern extremity of that great country, the German nation would rise as one man to repel any aggression. What is it that constitutes the great security of a state against. aggression? " Not high raised battlement or laboured mound, Thick wall or moated gate, Not citic s, proud eith spires nd turrets crowned, Not bays and broad-armed ports, Where laughing at the storm, proud navies ride— Not starred and spangled courts, Where low-browed baseness wafts perfume to pride-- No ! Men, high-minded men I" —(Loud cheers.) I would give this counsel to the State of Europe.—(Hear, hear, from the Ministerial benches.) I trust in speaking in this manner I cannot fairly be taxed with presumptwp.—(iioar, hear.) Hou. Gentlemen themselves have forced this on me.—(Cheers.) It may perhaps be said this man is afraid of war, but he would couns,l the other States to reduce their armaments for these reasons. Let it be recollected that a great change has taken place in the public opinion. You cannot now conduct war on the plan on which it was conducted by Bonaparte. You cannot row make the conquered country bear the ex pense of thej conquest—(Cheers)—and when nations con sider all that is to be gained by war—when they consider the immense armaments which they have to support, for the ac quisition of military glory with the cost of which those armaments will have to be maintained—they will at once see the necessity for reducing their military establishments. They came to take calmer and more reasonable views of the cost and mode of war. The expression of such sentiments is perfectly consistent with the firmest determination, if occasion would call for it, to risk everything for the maintainance of the national honour. Sir, I come now to a point of omission. I did regret the omission of any notice of the state of our rela tions with the United States. lam aware that that omission was not a casual one ; I am sure that it wasetot an ina :vertent one. I regretted it for this reason, that I found you had no thing very satisfactory to state. Questions were asked of the Noble Lord by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, to which the Noble Lord made no reply. The Noble Lord laid down the principle that we had nothing to do with the municipal institutions of the United State; that our demands must be made upon the public organs of the country, and that their own international laws and regu lations could not be applied as an answer to a demand ; and the Noble Lord read a despatch of Mr. Webster's, recognizing, if I understood it, the principle for which the Noble Lord con tended. I understood the Noble Lord to deprecate the putting of those questions; I understood bins to say that he lhought it might be more conducive to the general interests of peace and consistent withnation (1 honour that those questions would not be put, and under these circumstances, I for one shall abstain from pressing the question or seeking any further explanation. But the Noble Lord will forgive me for saying that the expla nation he gave was anything but satisfactory.—( Hear, hear. ) Sir, I will not detain the House by any fnrther observations on this topic, but I will proceed at once to those great subjects adverted to in the , Speech and the Address which had immediate reference to the question before the House. Sir, in the speech of the Noble Lord opposite, last session we were called upon, if I under stood it, for an express approval of the measures which were recommended by the Ministers. That speech had reference to those measures, which are intended to supply the deficiencies in the public revenue; I mean the measures respecting the timber duties, the sugar duties, and the Corn-laws. Sir, Ido not mean to avoid the expression, or, I must rather say, the repe• tition of my opinion upon the subject of three duties. I stated before the Session terminated what. course I intended to pursue, and view I took with reference to those measures. I was told that the country would disapprove of the secresy which I maintained ; I was told that it was unworthy of any person Icokiiig to the possession of power to withhold the de velopment of his plans for remedying the financial embarrass ments of the country. But I gave an opinion then, to which I will adhere now—( Hear, hear)—with the greater re solution, because it has been supported and confirmed by the voice of the country. (Cheers from the Opposition)—that I, who am at present to be regarded as an individual, am not called upon by any considerations of public ' duty —nay, that lam precluded by my own sense of public duty from developing the measures by which, if called to power I would attempt to rescue the country from its present position. Hear, kear, from the Tories, and laughter from the Li berals.) Sir, the Right Hors. Gentleman the President of the Board of Trade, asked me whether or no if I dissented from these measures, 1 therefore dissented from the principles of free trade. Sir, I protest against the principles of free trade being tried upon those individual measures.—( Hear, hear.) I protest against the conclusion—" Because you oppose those individual measures, therefore you imply an opinion ad verse to the rem ov al o f th e restrictions on commerce—imply an opinion hostile to the doctrines of free trade.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Why, Sir, in the first place, if I do profess a general conviction of the truth of the principles of free trade, I am not chargeable with any new or hasty adoption of thatopinion. When I was Hume Secretary in 1825 I was intrusted with the preparation of a speech from the Throne which recommended the removal of the restrictions on commerce in a manner, as it appeared to me, more calculated to promote that removal, to make it acceptable and satisfactory, than the one which was adopted by the Government opposite, of trying, the principles of free trade upon a mere scheme of financial ember rassment.—( Hear, hear, from the Opposition.) Sir, in 1825, with my entire advice and my entire acquiescence, his Majesty made this recommendation to the House :--‘• His Majesty commands us not to conclude without informing you that evi dent advantage has been derived from the relief which you have recently given to commerce by the removal of inconvenient re strictions. His Majesty recommends you to persevere, as cir cumstances may allow, in the removal of similar restrictions, and his Majesty directs us to assure you, that you may rely upon his Majesty's cordial co-operation in fostering and ex tending that commerce, which, while it is under the blessing'of Providence, a main source of the strength and power of this eiterntry, contributes in no less a degree to the happiness and civilization of mankind." Now these are the words to which, in the year 1825, I was a party. The Right Hon. Gentleman has a fair right to say, " But don't content yourselves with these general declarations in favour of free trade; if the prin ciples be good, the onus is thrown upon you of establishing the exception in this case."' Sir, I may say again, although Hon. Gentlemen spook as if they had assumed the mantle of Mr. Huskisson, yet I may say again with truth, that I did cordially co-operate with Mr. Huskisson in his financial measures ; that I did receive from Mr. Huskisson the assurance that from no member of the Government did he receive a more cordial support than from myself in carrying those measures, and in mitigating the difficulties with which he had to contend. The Right lion. Gentleman says, " We have proposed other measures be sir'es." It is perfectly true that other measures, founded upon the principles of free trade, were proposed; he says other and more extensive ones were contemplated. I am sure the Right Hon. Gentleman will not expect me to ex press any opinion with respect to these which were only in con• templation.--(Hear, hear.) But with respect to those which he actually proposed— independent, I mean, of the three great measures of last Session—the principal which I can call to mind were a new regulation of the duties on the coffee of Bra zil, far the purpose of correcting that absurdity which permits coffee now to be taken to the Cape.—(llear, hear.) The Hight Hon. Gentleman met with no opposition from me ; I am disposed to give him a cordial support, upon the principle of that measure. Another measure brought forward by the Right lion. Gentleman was for an equalization of the duties upon East India produce as compared . with the West India produce. The Right lion. Gentleman met with some opposition, I think, from this side of the House— some slight opposition ; but he will recollect that I expressed my opinion in favour of the proposed equalization. Another measure of the Right Hon. Gentleman, was to diminish the cost of provisions in the West Indies, by permitting the impor tation of timber at a reduced rate. The Right Hon. Gentle man did not meet with any great opposition from me with res pect to that measure. Mr. LABOUCHERE.—The opposition came from the Hon. Member for the University of Cambridge. Sir R. PEEL—Then, Sir, with respect to this passage in the Speech—" It will be for you to consider whether there are not some taxes, so small in amount, that they yield not hing to the revenue, while they are vexatious to commerce." That is a principle which 1 cannot gainsay. I can say nothing more than that where there are duties which yield nothing to the revenue, and are merely vexatious to trade, there cars be no ra tional object in keeping them on the statute-book. Then as to the otherprinciple enunciated in the Speech, " You will con sider whether the principle of protection may not be carried to such an extent as to prove injurious to the best interests of the country. I cannot contend against- that principle. It has been publicly stated that the measures of the Government are meant as fully to meet the exigencies of the present crisis. With that public notification, I fear that if I acquiesced in the general words, it may be construed into an acquiescence with the details of all the measures. I stated before the House se parated, with respect to the timber duties, that I would give no pledge—that 1 would reserve to myself the right fully ere con sider the whole policy of the measure. In the present state of the Canadas, I would like to know whether there may not be political considerations which may contravene the general principles of free trade —(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord has told us that Lord 5) denham said in a ds spatch, that the proposition relative to the timber duties would greatly add to his embar rassment, and thatejust at the moment of forming the union which the Hon. and Learned Member for Bath predicted will be productive of so little harmony and satisfaction. I will ask, too, what are our relations with the United States? Lord Sydenham said there might be other measures which might reconcile the Canadas to the alteration in the timber duties, but to this hour we have never heard one whisper as to what those measures were.—(Hear, hear.) What is the state of the Canaries relatively' to the United States? In the news papers I have seen a despatch of a public nature—such a despatch as was never in my time laid before the public in which it was stated that the Noble Lord had referred a plan for the fortification of Canada, not to the Master-Ge neral of the Ordnance, but to Lord Hill, and that 100,0001. were to be expended annually upon such works, and this was all published to the world. With what object? It must be to show the United States that at whatever risk, we are deter mined to preserve the Canadas, or to show the Canadians that we are ready to take upon ourselves the debt contracted by Upper Canada.—(Hear.) It may be right so to tranquillize Upper: Canada—it may be right to hold out this peculiar inducement for the consolidation of the Union.:lt may be right to publish the communications with the Duke of Wellington, but; at all events it indicates a state of public feeling, and rancour vvhich'justifies Torylreserve,—( Cheers, )—because I did not want to add to the embarrasment of the country. Sir, with respect to the sugar question, I am afraid that I must maintain precisely the same language as I did in the last Parliament, and by so doing 1 shall compel you to acquit me of the charge, that I have modified my language inconsequence of the majority which the country has returned. 1 still maintain the opinion which I d:d before seeing that you propose to admit the sugar, not of Brazils, but of Cuba at 12s. duty. But the measure was so ill consideered, even by yourselves, that you were obliged to alter it within a week. But I will ask you whether you made any stipulstions as to the reduction of duty at the time you abolish slavory. Now, in my opinion, by carrying out your proposition you will, in the first place, be incurring a great risk of aggravating the horrors of slavery and the slave trade, particulaily in Cuba. You took no precaution. You exacted no condition for those States before propos:ng to give them the boon which would be given by the Budget. But above all, you forget that we have a prospect of a perfect supply from our own colonies, which must, of course, reduce the price of sugar. It may be said that I cannot adjust this to the principles of free trade. I admit it. but these considerations, connected with slavery, weigh in my num! ; and I did trust, ) our calculating that the supply would be short and the prices high ; and that' in order to compel a reduction in the price of sugar, it would be necessary to take it from those slave-holding States, I do not wish to taunt the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chan cellor of the Exchequer with changing his plans of 1840 in 1841; I would merely remind him that the grounds urge d ,b e him in 1840, with great ability, were very strong, and that the main one was, that the West Indies were then tottering under the weight of a gr eat experiment. It sys _ was stated that 'sugar required a P artieu aantations tens of cultivation, and that the loss of lite on suga,trhlor was much greater than in the production of anY ;ound ; but I produce. In 1840 1 voted with them on thit ,o g I nfluenced me colonial to take that have a right to say that other consideration f s e a t but the Right Hon. Gentleman Lad a per e w • as rig ht a prospect of an course. 1 thought at the time that there as Right Hon. Gen.. increase of sue ar from our colonies. butie forgot " Hamlet"— flexes, entered into various details, of se ear.—(l ear. On the was 150 s. 111 d., and the . ( A laugh)—he forgot the price price Of sugar was 58s. 4d. , Ist of September, Ib4o, the on the te r of January, I p a ri m nc ro tp r its , d of British tr colonial present average price of sue s''+ bear. ) I don't y th e s e t f at f i r i e lg e possessions, wits 365. 3(1. , a l ,. Bl s i i;e i p t ro uce o re- osit.ifvonre that . my p . redietions . were not 1 ou(rll4:rinlia.l sugar t , was .anysaargument (ruction in the price of price ug' u h t e against the admission trade 'disregard the que that reduction of price as a proof Will (Cheers.) the Right lion. Gentle very far wrong. — man allow me to ask why he confines his statement of the con sumptionto the first six months of sugar of the present year ? —( Hear, hear.) observe, Iduring these six months, that there has been a great derangement in the trade in sugar. The propositions of the Government were then known, and every one was in expectation that there would be a great inlet of sugar, and consequently there was a great depression in the market, and an unwillingnes3 to purchase sugar. Those circumstances might account for the diminished consumption of sugar. But is it true, that in the last three months there has I bowl ? that tree?—(Hear t hear.) I have I MORNING SUN n th otltA b oi sfes told, that that aosu t tltogo.tlhnuctl colonial :4e t oi h , a ois t lrtns she fn4soosolri consumption tl i e i s e , thi l lfv a s t osm 9three:u:aoy,nofpd: quantity o g(c,t n ade h t,v. saßt,, was 992,000 aegn e nh n dii t 1, producei i n gl2 ,o ,ooni the oo a,:h. sth oeef b Beser man confine his statement to the first six months. If G tru ec i lt; ct ' s t ietti i ite m nen tr p chr o oer r ue t re a tao) r og i r t ieessut f hi a mma c io t e, fact. that I value lt is e a tilt indication i n firi tel infinitely thatles s t o h n e r a e c; aa c is o r u t n o t and e o ( a f s tio to n. ho l ve ref t e h r a t t o a t p h o a r t io fa d ct of a r s e i o m o p e o r r y t : slight, indeed, but still a time in the dowrild progress of de pression has been niched. 1 now come to the more important and exciting topic, the consideration of the question 01 the duties on corn ; that I may make no mistake, allow me to quote the exact words I then used. I said before the dissolu ti,n, that after mature consideration I bad come to the opinion which no intervening consideration had induced me to alter, that I preferred the graduated scale to the imposition of a fixed and irrevocable duty.—( Cheers., I said that, and I now re peat it.—( Loud cheers.( Speaking of the language 1 had used in 1839, I said that is the language I hold now --1 would prefer the principle of a graduated duty to a fixed scal e. I do not bind myself to the details of the existing law, but I r a e nsrma s , e wisn r h. v rie e :l(la t lortilhcemeea3r,,•sfelf hear.)the you o considering ando bind od amending ysel f the existingagricultural tote la r s e y st i s n w it i s il details as the condition I say on that condition Iwill give me their sup tot p l e 'rh r see tr not accept that support.—( Hear. ) lam now mairtaining what I did before. 1 may be w rong. I know it is the fashion for every gentleman to presume that he is, in the right, and that those who differ from bilal is in error. Have compassion on inferior judgments, and do not impute motives. You say that we are actuated by base motives. I tell you that such is not the case. I Pur posely avoid entering into details. Ido now, as I did before, in a minority; with a supposed majority, I hold the same lan guage that 1 did in a minority. 1 reserve to myself the un fettered power of considering the details.—(Hear, bear.) liu d t aouare not satisfied, and whole streams of obloquy are directe gainst me, which, after an experience of thirty years, Pr": duces little irritation. 'The whole stream of obloquy is directed against me on these accounts. Although you say Si t u the principle of a graduated scale, you studiously Wital, hold the mode by which you would alter it. la ' this of any reasonable man Oman was there ever a more preposterou! demand made of a public , than that he should declarr not only his preference of certain principles to the w y ci oo r uu ld iai , rae b v ut that he was irrevocably bound to the precise o e m ar.ye of carrying it out. You made this demand of me las t e co r m em in a g ine i d nt i o n office—we Was there every such a shallow candidate for power as not to tell us what i he intended to do? Suppose I had done it.—f Ch eers ' ) 11 this demand proceeded upon the assumption that you were about to quit officee and if in May had declared my your views would have changed, and-having in the intervenmg period determined to retain power, and to appeal to the people , Ygoouinsgaidootto. me last year, you wanted a convenient instrument of attacking any Gut " :l e pt eject, and, to the best of your power,. you would have ma „, - ", it impracticab:e, and if, after that, I had come into powers . .Ye a ; would have tied my measures round me with the bonds ot til e irrevocable pledge ; and if 1 did not adhere to it, you of have said, here is a man who came forward with the detail' of a plan ; he ha: got into office, and the moment he has a t , C. ' acquired it he changes his opinions. It it true that 1 ant individual who is honoured with the confidence of a Poure ci . o body, but that does not impose upon me the obligation of devis ing a Budget for you. Ns hy should a Minister of the Crown have the means of information if we are all to be upon an equality. I will prove to ye; that you do notrequi re this 'rune Met and that you feel the justice of my observation. Why did be e° give me a year to consider of the new Poor-laws? It has ehe the subject of discussion, and why did you not a sk me for t subject of my details upon that measure ? On e is as reason: able as the other. Do not:you know that the public detail of measures has a tendency to prejudice the free consideration of it. If I were to pledge myself to a particular principle with respect to the Corn-laws, and were then ceded upon to form a_ Government, is it to be said that I must state to every Gcteepal_ ment whom I called upon to assist me in the Government that there was one irrevocable principle to which he roust subscri You must subscribe to the precise mode of contracting the ave rages. You must subscribe to the private price which I have determined on, and from which I cannot depart, becausse have made a public declaration of it.—( Hear, hear.) Ca n any reasonable man deny that there never was such a prepos terous demantt made upon a public man, who was not in c ea„ t fits, but a candidate for power.—( H ear, hear.) I statedbefore the election, and no demands, no solici tations, :no ridi cule shall induce me to depart from it.—(Great cheering., That was the question between us. • Many of the gentlemen_ who were advocates of fee trade were not Members °Vibe in Parliament, and those that were seemed to have forgotten ohf real uestion at issue. We both acknowledge the Prin c ip le to protection ; we both acknowledge the principle the Crown being asked whether this fixed duty was a f tax .b. agriculture.—(Hear, hear.) The first FinanocrePAretinisteorr oaf protection, he said it was protection. We started r t I s e a v n t i e e d p o oi o n t iore i g f o h e o G oro ov , er a n t m a rin i t tto p t r o o s p , o a s o ed d stances, no matter what might be the glut of the marrke_t o price of corn—if it were as high as 90s. 0 • d with• Cries of • 4 Hear, hear.") The proposal of the Go vernment as to the Bs. duties was to be rigidly comp lie d a under fixe d Will the Hon. Member for SI ockport apply his proposition te.rothee Bs. duty, and when he estimates the amount of duty taker! I! all d u t c oY •l n r t t • r o u ;17 . - the pocket of the poor man, compareed with the duty on bread' taken from the pocket of the rich man, will he tell me vs his calculation is not as precisely applicable to the fixed duty of Bs. as to the sliding scale. And when I have adopted the he duty, and accepted it as the fienal settlement of the Coro -la e_ question, what security shall 1 have that those promised derittinth ciations levied against the bread-tax will not apply equal force to the duty of Bs. ? As to the graduated scale. Mr. COBDEN.—It depends upon the amount. se Sir It. PEEL—No, it does not. Every one of duty elaborate calculations apply with equal force to the fixed "" nature as to the sliding scale. Every argument of a popular 021 I iter . calculated to produce disaffection and discontent will sP,P,Y e with equal force to taxation, whether irrevocable or not. "" principle of free trade is opposed as much to one a s the other, Let me ask this question. Suppose you passed your law in May last, fixing an Bs. duty upon corn, to take effect at the end of the Session—supposing that the weathei continued un favourable, and the price of corn hail risen in September to 90, a quarter—do you mean to say that you would at:here to your fixed duty arrangement then ? That is not at all an improbable case. You want to give security to commerce. What, I would ask, is the meaning of that, when you allow patties to speculate in corn ? The moment they know the amount of the fixed duty, they make great gains by bringing in corn from the Continent. That is not what I consider the principles of free trade. But then it is said that the remote consequences of those prices never will arrive. That is the speculation of those who con tend for fiee trade. If the duty was to be fixed at Se.' it , would be in vain to show that it could have been adinittedhee Is , and it would be vain to draw the comparison between, t ht state of the law, defective as it is at present , and what it mire et be when the provision was made. I will venture t o sa y t" rj g d the duty of Bs. could not have been levied , a something must be done for its relaxation. Would yc' provide that when corn arrived at a certain price therief should be a power in the council to abate the du t y ? 11 you do that you must apply the system of averages.Y",„ el take no such power, then, in my opinion , the pr inci p le °f to' law which provides for the total omission of t he duty Nebe corn is inconveniently high is more likely to work "ell than the principle of a fixed duty. With respe ct to the fl ue' tuation in the price of corn. Having (paid the bestattentionr I can to that subject, I have very great doubt whether yet' expectations for a free trade in corn will pr oduce a flied prieet: or can be carried out. 'There must be such fl uctuations in the price of corn, for the very nature of the commodity dependo4 i upon matters so accidental as the seaso ns, that the r?- provements in the law which you meditate I doubt would be _ productive of much good. It is i mpo rtant, in this respect, t compare the prices of corn in this country wi th those of othe; countries, in which the Corn-laws do not operate. In cowl. dering this question of the Corn-laws, I wish to throw aside all party feeling, and consider the question upon its OWII meri s t• With respect to the fluctuations in the price of corn, I admit they have been great—much greater than could be wished'ha I think the great object to be obtained is a fixed price, but t t I think, could not he obtained by a fixed duty.—(Hear, heatree Just compare the. varaiations in the price of corn in h United States with that of England. America is a country not subject to the operation of the Corn-laws. It has a free trade sin corn, it produces more t h a n its inhabitares can consume, but I was very much struce indeed . wall the fluctuations in the price of corn in the Un ited S t ates _ The followine is the account of the variations in th e preceitef. corn in New York, from the year 1634 to 18-10. Now, jt listen to the amount :—ln November, 1834, the rice of the Winchester bushel of wheat was 335. 4 ,• in 1836 it was 34 . 5. ; in January, 18 37, it was 63 5 . ; and in June, 1839, it was 07e• 4d. ; and in October of the same year it was 675. 4d. N l / ° ' what was the ground of these immense fluctuations? There had been an intervening harvest, and in October, 1840, the rice fell to 31s. 9d. There was a fall of more tha n 100 Per Pant. Yet in that country, where there is a comp lete froee trade, and a most abundant supply, on account of the variety' of the seasons, there was a greater fluctuation in price than lu this country. In 1836, when the price of eor,u in Ncw York was 545., it was only 455, 9". here; and in that country, which was subject to such fluctua tions in price, occasionally having those gr. at prices, there seas not that extreme of suffering mentioned as occurring in ` do! country. Here is a most extraordinary statement with repecot to the produce of Russia, which was furnished by your own Consul, and which shews a very great variaotio yetii the supply of corn according to the seasons, ,d, ~chat, consul told you that that might be made threefeld, fr a e u . e a an idea, does his add in another paragraph ? In order t i cs , e ts corn mer ticularly good lie says, " I have been ass f red of what this country can poetize when the hab•,:c4a z am boff alone pro chant that in 1835 the Governmen t , are par ;!,)__ 3 / a y last I was to diced 38,000,000 quarters of corn h . to ninon was o oe , it is 3oti yourselves were to furnish, and when 1 read it your . "a-nswer from Sir Edward anticipate all the information whic,aa, impossible." This document e u r , e ,„ " Is it not possible. Barnes to a letter signed " Palin from other cause then, that fluctuations o l ela y the wiiiCorn l : o a u ws :reatl l y ex ca ag nn g: not derive such benefit titan the operat ion help thinking that eo rivable from any alteraCon in the Corn tdeto those accounts of distress in the mantl- Sou anticipate. from the change which -"the are given by laws.lateth e l a v i t h. tt af r t o ats nts Y a - re . so - affecting,. gentle men whose chaos; ^ rtunities of information entitle them to credit' that I said to mYseIG lets and opPo - Some of thee , ' a ( what must be theoperation. of the Poor-law in those dis trictsie which such a horrible state of things is permitted ? facturine districts.ou. There certainly must be some mistake in the account. 141/ unfortunate inan found dead at h.s loom, and ne inquiry ma& i n to the matter !" But thee, in su c h a sta t e o f things we og* o ri ot to content ourselves with a mere expression of symPathr„ . 'To those who are in authority it appertains at once; and , the first ins arise, t o demand by whose laxity ne i are cause.— conduct it is th a t t h ese thingscaused .—(Hear.? I have no hesil t • e a iou in declaring, that if I thought an altere tion in the fern-laws could preclude the risk of a retu rn these evils—if 1 t h oug h t it would he an effectual remedy all occasions against such instances of lamentable suffering those which we have heard described, I should say at once to the agricultural interest, it is for your advantage rather to 501). mit at on ce t o any re d uc ti on o f your incomes, taan to centirord a law which led to a continuunce of national distress. I w ee say it was for the interest not only of the community, bu t m e te especially of the agriculturists, that if any sacrifice of the" = could prevent the continuance of the existing distre ss, and off.ei a gua.areee against a recurrence, to make that sacrifi ce ; atot would earnestly desire a relaxation or an alteration, nay's n cessary, a total repeal of those laws.—(Cheers.) But ite'e because I cannot persuade myself that the Corn -laws are at tri._ bottom of this distress, or that the repeal of the Corn-la' S' tt• alterat ton ot its principle, would secure the proposed e)": that I am induced to continue my support of that law.—( - le position cheers.) 1 own to you that I think the evil is on. cannot reach. I fear that in commercial an d manufactuteui; concerns of this kind, no legislative remedy scl i , lt e l you can by possibility devise, will afford an effectui, remedy against the recurrence of individual distress. Theo „, something in the invention and sudden application of machine:), whatever might be the benefits which it might ultimately eiere for upon the country, in increasing its produ ctive power-11,he is something in the application of machinery which leads to 'Le infliction of distress upon those who ha ve subsisted upon to% manufacturing industry. the course of my inquiries oPee the subject, I have been most forcibly struck by a docurnr; Vltich appeared in' tho first leport of the reerelew