The Sun. — London, England, 1819-02-09 00:00:00

again to come forward. In Whit *he now Intended to propose, he should take care that no `bar whatever would he offered to any regulation 'which had latterly taken place with respect to inch Grants. The Noble Earl then gave notice 'of his intention to submit a motion to the House 'to-morrow, applicable to Grants in Reversion, which may have taken place since the Ist of January, 1818. A few words were interchanged between his Lordship and Viscount SIDMOUTTI across the table. the purport of which we could not collect ; but the Noble Earl's notice stood for to-morrow. corroN MANUFAcToitiEs. Lord - KENYON, pteViolls to his notieed motion on this subject, presented a Petition from nume rous rersons engaged in,the Cotton Manufactories in the town and neighbourhood of Stock Port, E;rAyitu that some legislative regulations may take place . for the relief, particularly of yOung persons, employed in these manufactories, whoz.e . healrl.3 %sere materially deteriorated by the present mode of employing such persons. The Peti whirl) was read short, Was, after azfew words from the E,rrl of LAUDE DALE, or dered to lie on the table. TAM! E. EN YON then resented a ref:Con, on grOunc:s nearly similar, from holly' ell, in Fliut altire. The f'etition, among other p set fortis that the persons were generally employed or 28 hours in the six days, in a way highly j.trious to their health, and praying for some le,. gisldtive regulations in their favour, particularly , with respect to a restriction in the time of their working. • The Earl of LAUDERDALE made a few remarks on the occasion. He had reason 10 think there were persons who made a practice, in the quarter whence those petitions came, of having petitions ready tram.ld -for their Lordships' House. One of these was signed by more than IGO boys or girls. The cond.ict of such persons tended to produce consequences the most i l :nrions to the Public. The Bishop of CHESTER expressed his opinion, th st the present mode of employing, paOiculaaly young person', in these mannfa'clOries was greatly detrimental to their health, and such 'he knew was the opinion of several eminent medical per lie had a petition on the subject to sub- Mit to their Lordships, from Bolton-le:MoOrs, in Lancashire, signed by more than five thousand persons. The Earl of LAUDERDALE observed, that he had, on the contrary, seen several certificates from medical persons, which set forth a very dif ferent opinion. Some further conversation on this topic took place between the Reveiend Pteltre awl the Noble Earl, atter which the Petition %els ordered to lie on the table, as was that presented by Lord Kenyon; The Bishop of CHESTER also presented a Peti tion from Bullington, in the County Palatine of Chester, to the same effect.—Ot t 1•. red to lie on the table. The Earl of LAUDERDALE, adverting to the no tice of the Noble Lord which stood for that evening, on a subject engineered with the Peti tions..said, he would put it to his consideration, whether it were pxoper to bring forward a sub ject to that extent and importance, at such a Period of the Sessions, particularly when the at-, ••-utlauces were so slight. lie would therefore . : beg of him to postpone it to a period mrlien they should have ,reason to expect the Muse won'd be in a very different situation in those respects frOta what it then was. Song. Lord KENYON was . of opinion that delays of the kind,would he injurious. lie had postponed it consequence of what . the Noble Earl sai'd until this day. A sense of duty solely induced him thus to come forward ; the Noble Ear h vould have future opportunities of discussing whether what was proposed should or should not pass io:o a law. What he would now propose was but, an inquiry, and of which he had giVen repeated notices. The state of the unhappy children in' these manufactories called, loudly for legislative interference. _Last year a Bill on this subject had advanced to its second reading, and the call for further inquiry had been compliPd with. The interests of substantial justice required [hit some thing shoul.lnow be done, and he would put this state of the case to the Noble Earl's own can dour. He trusted that the Noble Lords would ,not decline attending the investigations ; and he should regret if the Noble Eitl himself Shank, not attend. After a due investigation of the subject, be ; would cheerfully submit to what their Lord ships should decide as the most eligible course to pursue. The Noble Lbrd concluded by moving, " That a Committee he appointed to inquire into the State-of the Children employed in the Cotton Manufacture, and to report the 3,;:ne to the House." Earl GROSVENOR made some observations. At "the time u heiptlle Bill was brought - up fro m the other House last year, they were certainly in 's state of comparative ignorance upon the subject. It was afterwards inquired into, and he held it rather extraordinary now that the Noble Lord should call for the adoption of a Committee. It was with reluctance he stated, that he (Earl G.) could not go so far with the Noble Lord. The House now stood in a very different situation with respect to the subject from 'what it did last .year. At best it was a very delicate as well as an important subject to legislate upon, and he was strongly,oppos.rd to the creation of hopes which it was beyond their power to realize ; and he teared that many of the deplorable scenes which occurred last summer might be attributed to such ogitations of the subject. The Noble Earl F t, posed a farther postponement of ;be motion for a Committee. The LORD CHANCELLOR, in , reference to the great stress which seemed to be laid on the con sideration /that those manufactories were injurious to the children's health, observed, that such prac tices were against the sense of the common law. A prohibition was therein to be found. At the same time they were not to shut their.eyes against what was going on ; and it became a (pest ion fur consideration whether there should not be some general law upon the subject. He could not help thinking the subject of au nmeh importance that some delay of the diicnssion wr;ul.l he desirable. ri4 there might hereafter be a fuller attendance. The , .quts`tion s hould be decitlea onilhio r It cvvy differ- . ent way. Notwithstanding medical men may the consideration of how far . the present practice May be injurious to health was really alArming. On the whole, he regarded the present subject as one, of Ole greatest importance ; but as it now stood before the House, if its sense were called for, be should give no vote ; and his opinion was, that the discussion at present, especially , in such a House, were better adjourned. Lord KENYON expressed his willingness, after What be bead heard, to postpone his motion fur ther, until that -day senuight. . . The discussion continued, but assumed rather an explanatory character. The Earl of LAUDERDALi repeated his leading objections to proceeding farther at present ; and some detaile , : explanation took place hrtweett his Lord,ship and the Reverend Prelate (of CHttstßa), respecting what had occurred relative to the Teti- lions ndiich.were brotight forward. In 'the course of the 'conversation, Earl PR9s- VENOR specifically proposed that the discnssion should he adjourned until this d a y fortnight ; an d mfter some lumber tentasks from one ,or tt+n of their Lordships, the questions were put, when that for adjourning the consideration of the mo. tion, as originally proposed, Until that day se'n night, was negatived ; and the amended proposi tion, for,postpnning the disCussionuntil• this day fortnight, was agreed to by their Lord hips. The llOuse then adjourned till to-Morrow. 110ITSE OF COMMOIO. Several Private Bills were lorWtirded throtigh their respective stages. ELECTION PETITIONS. The SPRAKER intimated to the House, that on looking over the printed list of Election Petitions presented on Thursday last, lie had found one which had been inadvertently referred to on Elec tion Committee, although it was against the Can didate instead of the sitting Member. Acts '2B and 53 of the King declared this mistake to be fatal. The petition respected the return for Drog heda. Other petitions, presented ft om the same place, were not liable to the same objection, and remained good. On the motion of the SPEAKER, the order, re ferring the Petition to the Committee, was dis charged, and the Petition was withdrawn. The SPEAKIM next informed the House, th:4t John Stnart,.Esq. and others, who had, on the 22d of Januat y last, presented a Petition against the return for Camelford, had failed to enter into recognizanees within the time limited by law. The order respecting this Petition was dis charged. The STRAKER took this opportunity of men tioning to the Honse a difficulty which had arisen "with respect to recognizances from Ireland. By the 28th of the King, 14 days were allowed for enteting into recognizances : if at the expiration of that period the Speaker reported that he had not received recognizances, the order was dis charged. By the 47th of the King, 14 days more were given the first 14 days tor entering - into recognizances, and the second 14 days for mating to the Speaker that. they had been entered into. The 53d restricted the period again to 14 daYs, and rendered it iMperative upon the Speaker to report whether recogniza n ces had been entered 'into or not. In passing the last of those acts, it was manifestly by an" oversight that it had been omitted to give 14 days more in the case of Irish l'etitious. He called it an oversight—(Hear, hear !)—because the reason was obvious why, in terms of the 47th of the King, 14 days more should be allowed in Ireland, not for entering into reeognizances,, but for informing the Speaker whether they had entered into them before the expiration of the first 14 days.-- 7 (Hear, hear !) This proposition was itumedistely acceded to, and the time for informing the Speaker was en larged in the several cages of petitions against elections in Ireland, to niday, the 19th of this month. UNFUNDED DEBT IN EXCHEQUER BILLS. Mr. LUSHiNGTort moved for an Account of the Unfunded 'Debt id. Exchequer Bills outstanding - on 'the Ist of Jan. 1 . 81 9.-01 dered. Mr. LIISH INGT.ON .brm , ght up the AccOutit ac cordingly. It was ordered to bi laid' on the table. INSOLVENT DEBTORS. TheATTORNEY-GENERAL moved, that the order of the House for the production of the Receiver- General's Accounts respecting the number, debts, and dividends of Insolvent Debtors, be read, in order to its being discharged. Mr. WAITHMAN said, that he had no objection, as another motion, to be substituted in the room of his, answered his purpose equally well. The order was accordingly discharged; and the ATTORNEY-GIiNERAL moved for accounts, which appeared to be precisely similar to the order with drawn, with some technical variations. The ac counts moved for were ordered. Lord SRPTON moved for a new wrio to elect a member for Droitwich, in the room of the Hon. A. Foley deceased.—Ordered. The Cutlery Trade Bill was committed. • SCOTCH BURGHS. Lord A. HAMILT►►N presented a Petition froth the.Eiectors of Kirkcudbright, one of the 13hrghs Of Scotland, praying to be restored to the free exercise of their elective rights. The Noble Lord entered into a series of statements connected with this subject, which was but imperfectly heard in the gallery. Tile petition was then read. It Frayed for the repeal of two acts of Parliament, which inteifeted with their rights as electors, and for such new enactments as would supply an ef fectual remedy to the evils of which they cow t>i<tint•d. _ The LORD ADVOCATE of SCOTLAND said, the Bill which the Noble Loid had described as hav ing been wiihdrawn in an extraordinary manner, had beers withdrawn became those interested in it had requested that the Bill might not pass till the subject had been brought under the coio:ider ation of a Convention of the Burghs, in July.— in answer to the question which had been put, he had to state, that it was his intention to pro pose the introduction of a Bill similar to that which he bad brought in during the last Session of Parlirlment. The Petition was ordered to lie on the table. Lord HAMILTON rose to withdraw a 1101iCO "that lie haa.tormetly given. Ile Ckplairrd his m o ti ves f o r doing so. He had given a Right lion. Gentleman opposite a list of.papers, for which he intended to nurVe . ; relative to the Scotch Burghs. ---lie would not now positively name a day-ifor which his motion should stand, but if the Learned Lord would say after what clay be could he in the House, he Would then fix oir \ the day for bringing. it on. Mr. BATHURST' sai4, when the Noble Lord had 'first spoden to him on the subject of the papers for which he proposed to move, and inquired of him if the motion wonitrhe opposed, he (Mr. Ba thurst) had replied, that it was a great deal too much for an individual like him to take upon hin►- self to decide on that question. On Friday he had told him that only one part of his motion would he objected to, but subsequently understanding the motion to be different frOm what lie bad sup posed, he had thought it right to let the Noble Lord know last night that it would meet with.op position, which before he hart given him to un derstand it would not be likely to encounter. The Loan AnVotATa of Scotland was the lag man in that House to desire that the Nolile Lord shoidd, for his personal con‘ , enience, postpone his motion for a single day. But the Noble Lord must be aware that a person in his situation had ti - tieS to perform which might call him away that were of some importance tri the Public. After the Sessions rose, on the 12th March, he should be happy to give hia attendance to the thotion itf the Noble Lord, so soon as it might snit his con. venience to bring it on. 1 - lAmtuioiz :hen postponed h s motion to the 14th of March. NEW WRITg FOR IRELAND. The SPEAKER i►►timated that he had had a cnm. munication frdrit Mr. Lc . slie Foster, intimating, that having been returned for Artna4lt aud for Lisburne, he had made his election for Artnagh. Lie had therefore issued a new writ•foi ~The SPEAKER,.in.an after stage of the business of the night, informed the House, that motions for new writs of fered Oil Friday night been, on his suggetion, post poned, in order to,allow time for hearing from Ireland after theexpiration of the 14 d4s. He had thissmorning sent to the Post-Office to make inquiry on the subject, and be had found that the last mail had left Dublin on Friday night.— Delay, in consequence, heeame no longer necessary. Sir HENRY PARNELL.rooved for a new writ fur Pot tar lingtOn, in room of Richard Sharp, Esq.—Ordered. • Lord CASTLEREAGH moved for a new writ for Newark, in room of General Clinton. , . Mr. CALCRAFT mood, that the Papers presented fiom the Storeheeper-General's Office - be printed.—Orderrd. Mr. D. W. HARVEY Ore 'notice,. that he would op the t4th more for the number of Informations filed in the Court of Exchequer under the Excise Laws.. . _ Sir M. RIDLEY rose to move for the amount of Sur charges of Farmers. for not hatint; Licences.as Horse,dralers. !f it•would be more agreeable to Gentletnen, opp,,iiie, he svoiild, instead of 'moving nowooice notice of his motion.. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER expressed his e-ference.of_a notice. Sir M. W. RIDLEY gave notice accordingly, for Thursday next. Mr. BROGDEN brought up the Report of the Committee of Ways and Means, which was received by the House. It contained the 'renal annual votes of tqaes. T E1.J.,01{- of the 14,757.4/EO.Litr, obtained leave to bring in a bill for enacting payment of those taxes. CUSTODY OF THE "KING'S The Bill for the Custody of his Majesty's Person. was read a third time, and Pasted. 3011 N NEWPORT asked.the Noble ,Lord whether he could give him 'any information :a to any act.of declaratory having- been passed by the Court of Session'in Scotland, erecting acts which. had. zone into desuetude? Lord CASTLEBEAGH replied, that• he had, ruqo e • in (mire, hut &A he was at that ',Await', unaiiie to i i..ivt`ien . y air swer. Si r JOHN NEWPORT 'o.ve. police, that he should on Tuesday , next,submit a motion on the,subject , _ • Mr. KENNEDY wished to ask. two questions of the Learned Lord. In 1813. Commissioners bad been appointed to ioquixe into the powers of servants of _the Crown, in several .judicial situations in Scotland. 'Tire Commissioners had made -four Reports before the dissolution. of the last Parliament. They had made their Mb Report since the commencement of this Session. He wished, first, to he informed, whether Mini_ eters -meant to adopt any measures in consequence. of these reports ? He was anxious to know this, because the reports were of great intricacy, and of great importance to tine part of the kingdom with which he had the honour tube connect ed. The other q uestion was, When the Commissioners were ex pected to terminate thei r l abours ? The LORD ADVOCATE replied, that the five Reports had certainly been made , and that his Majesty's law-officers in Sc o tland bad given their opinion up o n them t o his Maje_sty's. Mi n i s t e rs; but the Hon. and Learned Gentleman must ex cuse him for not pretending to say, whether his Majesty's Ministers intended to found any measure upon those Reports. Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that they could not be ex pected to return answers immediately to all the points - that could. be asked.. , .. MR.EROUGHAM—coNnurrEu OF SECIIESY. Mr. CALCRAFT rose to make the motion of which he bad given notice, for adding Mr. Brougham to the Committee of Secresy. The fitness of his Hon. and Learned Friend for such a Committee was not to he disputed. Every one who , kn,w the man must know that be was pecu liarly fitted to forward and assist such an inquiry as that with which the Committee were charged. He wished not to offer any invidious remark's on the occasion, and should humbly submit his mo tion to the House—" That Mr. Brougham be added as a Member to the Committee of Secresy." Lord CASTLEREAGH said the line taken by the Hon. Gentleman very properly avoided any invi dious remarks on the Members of the Committee. He, however, must object to the motion, as de structive of that ancient tsode of choosing a Com mittee, to 'which the House bad thought fit to resort on this occasion. Whe,n the Hon. Gentle man said there was a precedent for that which 1;e. proposed in 1751, be did not say whether 'the Committee to which the Marquis of Graham , was added was a Committee of Secresy. 111 r. CALCRAFT said, Yes, it was. Lord CAsTLERRAGH then stated, that be had a precedent of equal force on the other side of the question. 1n 1797, it was proposed, ,to add Mr. Fox to a Committee of Secrecy, but,though :ti e Committee was less numerous than the present, the proposition was negatived, lie contended, 04at in particular cases, where a Committee of Secresy was appointed, it was desirable, when the ancient practice of ballot was resorted to, thAt the House should adhere strictly to the Committee chosen, and not suffer others to added to the number :ut first selected. Mr. TIERNEY considered the course pur sued to be invidious, it the language used on this occasion deserved a diffrrent character. In the whole House he did not know that there was one person so eminently qualifi-d to as,if.,t at such an iitynity as his Hon. and Learned friend. There WAS MA one Gentleman, who on all questions on every branch of public economy, was filler to throw light on the subject of inquiry than, the in ditidnal now proposed to be andrcl to the C9m rnittee ut Secrecy. T h is w a s a question on vrtlicti ' nse and Ole . country eat; l,l. ' 6°l ' , Ini . ,,, e l l a o ° ta k s w el i a t r t c t i g , :eat anxiety, as the value of M' r. toe • was known ; and in no case where laborio"'. and preseveiing inquiry into a ComPliejo e( subject, were necessary, would the publi c c i l i st fail to place his name at the head of at )' f ist • mist ht Lord e C!:,Tr.ztin opose E d' cli ,h t Mr. S. Woamsy could' not but believe Honourable and Lear net! Gentleman' (ae'e, Brougham) was not a Member of the Co'"rnifot it was the fault of the Gentlemen Of the t/P1):4511t tion. It they bad done their dut y, theY have had him in it. The House had decide d ye t° 1 chosen by ballot. n old times, and within ti-eg the Committee should corf,ist of 0 1 Mem bers, 0 " MI T , it bad been common for two lists of lislit),O to' be circulated on s uc h o ccasions. wa s 111 . 1 1 1 . te now. No list was produced from that side of ore it H ii(i)rir o a t ty s a e crt of the preceding is v t i t i e g , ol a itt s c, l; l H e, ,i, ti nt e ti "" the 0 ham's name, be mu st h a ve been of die han)",,,irli the Committee. That he w as out 'vas their own fduir, and it was too tuoch (ki t je t' should now att e mpt to get - t oot her Aleliejict. added to the Committee, because they ba ll 14- lit their d ut y., ts lts t Mr. PROTHEnOE maintained, th,f though fe el , had been stated by the last Speaker wa-fi t" e A " r efP)ber4 et was not practically. jt• t he le i r o the Minist , of the Opposiion had come forward i n a d; erl would haie done the like, p o l o rd result would ha've been what it Was 0 " 11ic o liA occasion. To say, then, that the Oppost" °. li it oily to brine themselves, was not the f that would be more manly for Ministers to stlY r id they had the power, and had thought p re blamed Ministets for not tiSing the infl ueu ce i vot i f p 6 rcs , s;s i s d :;:l ,4 wi t t l i i t e mt: i t a •e in t e no t t i l f er? jr Z it h it o il u . i t ' o t he Committee.' r Mr. CALCRA'FT believed the 1160. Alen-benhjec. Yorkshire bad been ittisinim d me d on i e 1 5 7 ,1,01" of the ballot, when he stated the ntimber °, lit'rs that voted-to he about one buudtt,,°‘;olo,l (Mr. Caleraft) was informed that tit ir It voted, and about 175 had put itt their ittsiii"eir altered. Had they brought forward lists 10 jot/ own they couldcouldnot have got Mr. Broogbs the„Committee. , Jati . W,torroz4AN considered it to h,e ba se of the Ilowe tor - such an infinity to who were best fitted by their talenis on d , eis icol! rietiee to conduct it to a satisfactory ron e '" t be ‘Vhatever might he t ho ug h t i n that House'e of public would not believe that the Comalitte :.•.ecteay was appointed to make an inclui r " nr esg woo:d rather believe' it was appointed to strFt o o f lie strongly expressed his disapprobat'un !he way in. which Committees were, c? l ,)C °e t iefS . I) ''n" r • Ow the present occasion, it noPr ece 0 ,0 !la_q ; been adduced to justify the motion , b e co te ()Jopinion it would have been wrong t' no rit' e_gainst one Si brought forward on that oC c , , - „ive It might so happen that one hdividnal ' t o f the Hoose more information than all ' the - re' s t i r! the House beside ; and was that on; l ). .e out by•etiverte4 tic (lid tint t‘bilikpc would be satisfactory to the public. 11 1 1 J was select reipe, int ll e i n c t . io w n . to w v l( o N te N t u o: a t it h i e , t i l l t e ot s i i o lo n t , dd . fed great °l3- jeetiPWAO the ballot, if it were to iippot , :e fe,! (Cr t: Oil the House, awl prevent it tram antliog I f i t !if .. I % k ye e tTt r at s- ti tt ! i o ii t c:s C ontrolf Syere r sl tees , ' 1 e 'll ' e ei :r t o b i;) ° :: 411) ' :; : 1 G • view the question was this—was the a 'pPoin fOi-t' , u , of , this Gt.ttiletnan such as would incerialiv c i ( i't t,i Ce to the object of the investigaiiim ? AL.° 1,, 1 was, what objection could there be Ur the ti ' l pointment ? , . C O A :1 1 1 ' 1 . D ' i CANNING t ee eliisen sa b i y ch ba b l e lot h : igi ll Y e from saying any thing of the Le arne d Geol' e. ; 1 1:'0 whose name was now proposed, - except 1 ",,,•5' fully subscribed to all that had been said io rri,,. of his talents and industry; .h ti t t h e re wAs I'''. t ee stance of an addition being made to a Cotr in j it na :hieli_ltacLalteatly . been folly appoioted: " 1)( ' 1 it proved of by the House.a's fully tpialiticd) "''' o f was on that grdund he objected to the awpopir, it:lye:11050i i the tomm4tee anew ; for be , was CoS e:liej . " ;l i e' t . the Learned Gentleman then , proposed e , pointed, the alteration would not stop the" ' Mr. W. Wy N NE explained. lii° Mr-BARHAM said, it was well known the l a were put into the hands of Members, and Se r" ~e thrown into the glass by them. He n ever I : s ' cie an instance in which the Opposition List ".cas' any use in a ballot ; and .he thought it wis ° die t , torn which might as well be dropped Alt°ge. vitt' An Ho - u.'Gentlernan charged the Oppositi" 'daot not doing their duty ; but if the duty Cm il t 0 0' be-tione effectually, it was better not to 0° it ° d l r. It was in vain 16 str u ggie with such a tliirte l ) . e jiC Mr.MAriTIN (Of Galway) gave the highes t c o te' to the - talents of Mr. Brougham. and 16 hi s ,; t t hat 'less RS a lawyer; but he belie..ed he was l' it s" - 0 0. 4 sort of a lawyer whom any servant of tbe '',',ltiO would recommend to his Majesty to raise —lOll situation of a Judge M any „ In " ' m ight h e 1 0 skilled in Divinity,,but lie believed no one c ; A advise his Ma j est y to make such a skilful P ic ` 0 1 liish -,- op.(A loud laugh,)..}l,, ha d that twili t to of Mr. 13rougharn ! (h a t h e ,„„„id „,,,, t , con o3 e o his being appointed a Member of the l )r i e Committee. voto s Lord Motpwrst said, he certainly sho nh for a Gentleman wyom he considered riallY q uaii ilto o fied to assist in the proposed inquiry , in t ile t 0 , manner as be bad voted for the appointniell"/9/. Mr. Fox to a similar Committee, in the year 0 , 0 1. Mr. MAIZYATTSaIa, the Members of clo t le d it) mitteeough mpo tto be cosed om f en w r , Y ° ell-slili b. the money concerns of the country. Lie --°% be: jeered to the appointment of Mr. 13rougbatual',4 :::tuse he thought there wete already t°°r. i theorists, and too few practical men rupon - , sr , Mr. Haaysy supported the appointmeut o,lifiect 'Brougham, ,as a Gentl ema n eminently :Inver( for. such a tash, from his great talents an° -- sal knowledge.-The House then divided, 13 3 For the Motion .............. I, -5 Against it ........................•• ter. Majority for Ministers ........ 44 Et FINANCE. . - n ot .Lord C ASTL RE A GI-I rose, pursna nt to l',,vot• to move for the appointment of a Select ' 11 :•()