The Sun. — London, England, 1841-03-16 00:00:00

EVENING EDITION He did not be- Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer. live there were any material errors in it. After a few word: from M , . G. W. HOPE, M. DIVETT said it must be obvious to all that there had been some error committed in the . financial manage ment of the co!ony, but he believ,.!d full value had been reccived for all that had been expended , notwithstanding the want of discretion which the Governor had diiplayed. It appeared to him that the resourc-,s of the colony had I;en very much underrated. He had see n l e tt ers f rom farmers who had enngrat2d from his part of the country, in which it was stated that the land was of the very finest deie,iptian, and h believed that the number of emigrants would be much greater if they only knew how prosperous these farmers and lab , urers tie e after a twelve months' rcsidenco. He had lit•l3 doubt that in a very few years that colony h would be th e empoim of a great part of Awtralit. Under these ciecumstsnces, he trusted that th-re would be no opposiii ma to the motion of the Noble Lord. The resolution was tl:ea withdrawn, and the Report or, dere.] to In received on Friday. ORDNANCE ESTIMATES—REPORT. Sir H. VIVIAN moves that the Report of the Com mit:ce of Supply on the Ordnance Estimates be received. eptain BOLDER() rose to call t'e attention of the 'lssue, and the Master Gzneral of the Ordnance, to the (xpense ineurte Iby Gre B. itain in furnishing arms, &c., to the Grand Seignior. In 1840, the sum taken for Ordnance stores was 207,090/ , wild: the eitimate for the r.s:ent year was 328,000/., making a difference of 121,0001. on account of that one item. What was the sum now required by the Government ? 241 000/., hile the average for the years 183 t, 1835, and 39, had been 65,000/., and the House was in tota! igno rance of the cause of so large an expenditur-. It was de :sable that the House shJuld know this. Ile supposed it would be said, a groat part of it was incurred in support ing our policy in Syria. He fund that the Sultan had been suppled with 24,000 stand of arms for the Syrians. Ile thought, considering the serv:ce ald assistance that had been renderei to him, the Sultan should pay a portion of the expenses. It m'ght be said this was the policy of a n :sisl of shopkeepers, but the great man who termed us so, reeer assisted a forei4a power and taxe 1 his own subjects to pay far it. We had the largest fleet in the Mediterra nean tint was ever in that sea, and the expense of it would fill entirely upon ourselves. Our expenses we - e upwards of a million, at the moat mederwe calculation. _Suppose one fleet had been destroyed what would have been the consequence ? Here they went on year after year increasing expense ; and, as far as he knew, to no terpssc, and for no cause or objoc'. lie thought the Thuse ought to be infji med on these subjects, and he should, therefore, move for a return of the correspondence be te eon the Government and the Porte with respect to the expenses of the late operations in Syria. Sir H. VIVIAN said he shoul 1 confine his answer to the Hon. Gentleman to subjects immeliately corrected with his own department. He had no hesitation in saying that, in the last few years, the expenses of that depart ment bad g reatly increased ; and if the Honourable Gen tleman had bees in the House a few nights vg s, he would have heard the causes explained. One great item was the adoption of percussion caps. With re spect to the Ordnance expenses in the Syrian expedition, the Sultan had been furnished with 24,000 stand of arms, wiJi a proportionate quantity of ammunition, which be was to pay for. He should not enter into any discussion as to the policy of that expedition, but he pledged himself that if the Hon. Gentleman should bring forward a specific -motion on the subject, some one of his colleagues would be prepared to justify it. There was no objection to the motion. EAST INDIA RUM BILL. Mr. BERN AL brought up the Committee on the Eas' I2dia Rum Bill. Mr. LABOUCHERE said, in consequence of what Lai been said of some ambiguity in the wording of the B.r, be hal consulted some persons competent to form an ()pinion on the subject, and though they thought the clauses as they stood wore sufficient, they thought there would be no objection to the introduction of other words. He therefore proposed in the preamble after the word " charter" to insert the words " into which the importation of foreign sugar is or shall be hereafter prohibited," and after the word " any" to insert the word "sues," IF, these amendments were adopted, the 2d clause would become surplusage. Mr. G OUL BURN said he thought it would still be necessary to retain the second clause. ) , Ir. CABO UCH E E siid he did not think so; but it night stand if de ired. He now came to what he con ceived to be a more important point. He had stated on a former occasion that he conceived it was important whether in point of fact sugar was made in the East Indies to any extant worth not'ce from any other mat rial but the sugar cane. Judging from the evidence before the East India Committee, he was led to believe that all sugar exported was bona fide the produce of the sugar cane, and that in limiting it to that, they were doing ell thet the East Indians asked. But it was stated that at Ben gal, if they excluded sugar made from the date tlley would make the Bill of no avail. He had taken pains to be informed of the facts of the ease, and be lieved there was some exaggeration in saying that if they excluded the date there, and only admitted the produce of the sugar-cane, they would not confer a great benefit. Ea understood that in Benares the date trees bore no fruit, and that all sugar made there was the produce of the sugar-cane • but in Bengal Proper the date trees grew in great numbers, and sugar was made indiscriminately from the thee and the sugar-cane, end the nature of the manu facture was such that it would be impossible to tell u'aether the sugar was made from the one or the other. was confident that whenever sugar was imported from India it would be date-tree sugar as well as sugar the produce of the cane. On these grounds, and believing, ho diJ, that the date-tree sugar was even now intro duced into this country, and that it was impossible to dis tir.guish it from the other, and wishing to afford encou ragement to the growth of sugar of every kind in India, h.: felt he was only acting according to sound principles in assenting to the proposed alteration. He would, there fume, move that the words " or sugar of the date-tree" be introduce:l into the clause. Mr. HA WES thcught the West Indies should have no protection of any kind which was not granted to the East Indies. He felt that tiesc latter colonies were much more valuable and important than the other. Mr. GOULB tiRN would not oppose the motion for the introduction of date-tree sugar. The amendment having been agreed to, and the Report rece:vod, the Bill was ordered to be mil a third time to morrow. MUTINY BILL. The Report on the Mutiny Bill was brought up, and tho Bill was ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. Toe Report on the Marine Mutiny Bill was brought up, an the Bill was ordered to be read a third time to morrow. Mr. BERNAL brought up the Report of the Corn rnlttee of Ways and Means for a grant of 8,000,000/. out of the Cunsoltdated Fund, for completing the estimated._ Agreed to. REGISTRATION OF VOTERS (SCOTLAND) BILL. Lord J. RUSSELL, having moved the second read irig• of this Bill, Sir W. RAE said that though he had objections to the details of the Bill, he would not oppose the motion for the second reading, tle did not in pa:ticular approve of the Court of appoal which it ma; proposed to establish, and Cl' the appointment of the Judges by the Speaker of the Douse of Commons. The LORD ADVOCATE defended the provisions of the pill; but said that he would be happy to receive sug £o •n Committee for its improvement. The Bill wr.s then read a seemd time, and ordered to be committed that day fortnight. _ .. DRAINAGE OF LANDS Mr. HANDLF.Y moved the second reading of the Dieiesge of L ands Bill. na ee i ..es • l SIBTHORP regretted that a Bill of so muds importance had boon introduced at a late period of the lest Sessioe, and progress, k now i rg tiat ant had t a k en care to watch its had attempt would be made to I he sztuegle it throu g h. course, been defeated, and as he considered the present v it every opposi_ r measure equally mis ch'eveus and dangerous, heshould give too in his power. Nothing. was more preposterous or ur eenstitutional than to give p ower t: if a surveyor to go Lieu.' a gentleman's property with wheelbarrowsand every other necessary implement , alel by Heavesany sur veyor came upon his prore.ty he should take caretouse rn a , a-guent that would prevent his riaea,ln naeiely, the arfutnen'une ad baculinuns.—( gA the visit,laugh.) He complained of the Bill, because it established a set o f Cernen:esioners, who were a set of men for whom he f e l t a cordial ha•recl. It was a gross job—i: might get the If.r. Meinly:r some degree of popularity in his county, wleoes he knew it was not warted. There was not one clause that wa; not previdirg, for a gross in'erference with property. H.! moved that the Bil be real a second time th,t day six months. ?.Ir. GRANTLY BERKELEY, in ~econding the Inc tie7, could not agree in al! the arguments used by the 11,v. and Gallant Member for Lincoln. He would lure no ii!jection ta the B It, if tie mover of it would lenvo ort the county of Gloucester. —( A Leigh ) It was oat wanted is that county—therefore he roust Ri , le it Lis opposi.ion. Mr. DARBY oppcsed the Bill as bedew too gross an in vaeion of the rights of priva'e property. He hoped, upen consideration, the Hon. Member would withdras the Bill, for it was iniquitoes in principle. Mr. W. MILES felt himself bound to oppose the 13.11, I manse be thought the present law was more acceptable to the country. Ii the Hon. Member would eseeet the lands under the Commissioners of Sewers, he would sup port the Bill ; if not, he must oppose it. Mr. HANDLEY. said the last was the unkindest cut 6f all, for the lion. M em b er for Somerset was a sort of godfather to Ilia first Bill, an d up to a l ate period was its worm supporter. however, in answer to him and the Hon. Member for Gloucestershire, he would say that it the people in their •counties we re so we ll pleased with their Sewer C ts, he would say thatthere o lk were no provisi in the Bill forcing it - upon So valuable were .c general principl es o f the in easure ' in the eyes of the Government that they had adopted many of its provisions in the Bill which they had introduc e d fur Ireeald, with the approbation of Members of all patties. 'lle thought that any e'efects in the measure might be best remedied in Committee. He trusted, that as the principle cf the Bill had been agreed to on former occasions, the House would not then oppose its second reading. The House then divided, when the numbers were— For the mation For the amendment l9 Majority —l2 The Bill was then read a second time and orde: el to be Committed. ,_.. COUNTY BRIDGES BILL. N EWMAinitifinitstbrough Committee, and the Report was i- t zoplercartsrlirre - enl ve d on Friday next. , The Report's:A - the Committee on the L-ase and Re -, ;-: lenspill, was br o ugh t up and agreed to. , CRINSIN,AL LAW (SCOTLAND). no LORD ADVOCATE postponed, till that day C ; .. p i ttrighi; his Inotto — # for leav e t o b r i ng in a Bill to alte:Al ......._ .'.lkeajl• hut law 9/Scotland. ..., _ _---_ _ Isl- ft I‘.; MONUMENT TO SIR WALTER SCOTT. Sir W. RAE moved that, leave be given to bring in a Bill for the erection, in Edinburgh, of a monument to the late Sir Wiftnr Scott. Pziva'c subveriptions had been entered into for the purpose of erecting such a monument, but the funds hal been found itiadequat', and he usted the Legislature would have no objection to make up the deficiency. _ _ _ Mr. V. MAULS seconded the motion. It a - rs not necessary for him to di'n'e on the merits of the great man whom the monument was to be erected. He believed that a proposal to pay a public testimonial to him will had been justly called "the Gm at Wizard of the North," would meet with the approbation of all classes. Leave was tberi given to bring in the Bill. M. ALSTON moyel that the petition of Captain La Roche (presented on the 9th of March) be printed, and circulated with the Votes. After a short conversatim the HOU3C divided, and the numbers were— Fur the motion Against it M.tjority sgtinst the motion ... —4 Mr. BETHELL then moved for ler.v?, to bring in a B II to amend the Act passed in the third arid fourth years of the reign of I,ii M4j , sty King William the Fourth, en. Ctuled "An Act to amend the law relating to Sewers." Leave g. - anted. Sir C. DOUGLAS, on behalf of Mr. Dagdale,_movel that t'le petition from the ratepay , r 3 of the Hundred of Ilemlingfori (prose rtcd March 12) be printed.) After a short conversation t' c motion was withdrawn. Lord MO R Pi.T II:in moving for leave to bring in a Bill fir the rnaintenanceand regula•ion of the Lagan Navigation, and for transferring the same to the Commissioners a Public Works in Ireland, said Le did not propose to go into the general question, which was rather a la rge ore . All were agreed that the uncertainty which so long sur rounded the L'gae Nasigition, should be remcv:.d. lie was aware there were points of difference between the Treasury and the Board of Public Works in Ireland with respect to the subject. Ilis objcet WaR, to refer the Bill to a Select Committee, by which alone thut question could be adequately considered. Mr. PIGOT seconded tl:e motion. Mr. COURTENAY concurred with the Noble Lent, that the only mode of gettirg up the merits of the ques ti3n was by the means proposed. lie woull not then go into the subj-ct, as the Noble Lord hid abst tined from doing se. He would merely giva notice of his intention to put a question relative to the debentures and the holders of them Leave was then given to bring in the Bill, which was read a first time. On the motion of Sir W. RAE, the Big for the (Tee ti )n at Edinburgh of a monument to the late Sir Walter Scott, was read a first time. Colonel SIBTHORP gave notice that to-morrow (this) eve,iing he would move that an address be preserve.] to her Majesty requesting that she would be graciously pleaeed to give directions for copies of the several communications be tween the Secretary of State for the Home Department ald the Treasury relativo to the appointment of Mr. Vizard as Solicitor to the Home Department, at a salary of 1,5001. per annum. The other Orders of the Day wera then disposed of, and the House Adjourned at Half-past Eleven. HOUSE OF LORDS, MARCH 15. The Earl of SHAFTESBURY, in the abieace of the Lord Chancellor, took his seat on the Woolsack shortly after Five o'Clock. The Marquis of NORMANBY presented a peti tion from Aberdeen, praying for the abolition of Church Patronage. The Earl of ROSE BE RY presented a petition to the same effect from a parish in the county of Stirling. Messengers from the Commons brought up certain Bills, which were real a first time. The CopyhOld Enfranchisement 8.11 was read a third time and passed. The Earl of WARWICK presented a petition from the Magistrates and inhabitants of the hundred of Woking, in Warwickshire, signed by upwards of 15,000 persons, compl tieing of the great hardship in flicted on them by the present state of the law, by which they were compelled to pay their share of the rates levied, to make good the damage done during the Birmingham riots, and praying that some measure might be introduce) regulating these maters for the future. The Marquis of NORM ANBY said he had not long since received a deputation on the subject from Woking, and he admitted the hardship of the case ; at the same time it was not possible to originate any measure for remedying the grievance in their Lordships' House, but any measure on that subject must originate in the other House of Parliament. The Bishop of EXETER presented a petition from the Bath Church of England Lay Association pray ng for Church Extension ; also another petition "rom the same body against any grant to the . . College of Maynooth ; also acotbcr pet i t ion, to the same effect, from Norton-Fitzwarren ; also a peti tion from the clergy of Elphin, praying their Lordships to address her Mnjesty, beseeching her to refuse the Royal assent to the Ordinance of the Seminary of San Sulpice. The Earl of CLARE presented a petition from the clergy of the dioceses of Bangor and St. Asaph. against the proposed union of those two seep. LORD KEANE. Lord Keane's Annuity Bill passed through Corn. mittee. Lord FITZGERALD moved that a message be sent to the House of Commons to request a copy of the evidence taken before the Committee on the C opy right of Designs.—Ordered. ST. SULPICE. The Bishop of EXETER then said ho rose in ac cordance with the notice which he had given. It would be in their Lordships' recollection, that when he had first brought this matter before them, he had said that he should simply state the reasons which had struck his mind in favour of the petition, and of the objects to which the petitioners looked. If on that night he had experienced any grave oppo sition, he should have deliberated long with him self before he took the decisive step he had taken on giving notice of this motion. But when he found all he had to say upon the subject was commented upon by the Noble Viscount near him (Lord Melbourne) in a manner, which with the utmost respect for his high talents, he (the Bishop of Exeter) must frankly say seemed to him to be no answer at all—when he (the Bishop of Exeter) also found the incalculable weight and vast importance that was given to the st ttements and arguments he bad then propounded by the noble declaration of the Noble Duke Waington), a declaration that he was strongly opposed to this the first attempt to break in upon the Protestant con• st:tution of this country, and upon the princi ples of the Reformation ; and when he (the Bishop of Exeter) found that the noble sentiment of that illustrious man was echoed throughout the em pire by almost every honest Protestant within it, he f.lt he had no other course to pursue, and he at once announced that he would bring the subject before the House, in the way of which he had givea notice, and which Fe now presantod himself to do. And yet while he frankly confessed that he was greatly encouraged by the circumstances he had mentioned—while he was greatly encouraged by the ardent assurances of sym pathy he had received from Noble Lords on the subject of this motion—while he was urged to this measure by those and other circumstances, even so late as the very day for which he had given notice of his motion, remarks had reached his ears, remarks which he could not walk through the streets without hearing, that st'l that sympathy was misapplied, that it was all mistaken, that he (the Bishop of Exeter) was wrong, and that he should be treated as if he were wrong. He had heard all this ; and he frankly avowel he stood in consequence before their Lordships with feelings of great diflicult.y, much disheartened, moth discour aged, almost discomfited. Nevertheless, he felt that lie had a duty to perform to the Protestants of this great empire, and, at the same time, a duty to himself, fro m which he would not shrink, however painful it might be. The discussion of that night was greatly • simpl.fi,l by an admission which seemed univer sally made that t t ile ecclesiastics went stic e s of which.S i St. th S s u e lp r ice di had no legal claim nance, if it were not disal'owed would bestow u p on them. Th e c l a i m of legal w right a w:as uttrly w i t hd rawn, and in lieu of it anot h er claim was up —an equitable claim—a claim no t o f legal equity, but of equ it y foundedot would upont e 3nffer n a f Go vernment during the list 70 years, and upon variouscc° which it was said had been made by different Ministers, to g i v e pertly, if nct entirely, what this ordinance propesed to bestow. That sufferance had no.tnece'noewa without some considerable objections. la the first place, by the statut) of Quebec ; andnot t only se, because the Crown was not in the habit of consenting its law officers from time to time, in order that it might act in defiance of the opinion of its Lw ofr ,,„ . lie therefore thought that in every instance where the Crown was known to have applied to its law oCers for advice on this subject, it was to be considered til 2 ce that notice was given to this body that the c l a i ms of f Were fie Seminary di for When the N Ale Lord opposite was S.-cretlr y the G - tonics, he directed Lord Aylmer, then vernor of Canada, to enter into ne g otiations with the Seminary, and with all kindness sai d, that unless they assented to the generous terms, which were proposed to them, he should, however reluctantly, advise Cie Crown to assert its claims. This was not a matter of Eght moment. If these were legal claims, or claims founded in equity, which could not but bey ielded to, it would be necessary to concede the whole, and to give them all that was demanded by them ; but the present ordinance exercised a discre tion as to how much should be conceded. It certainly gave largely—enormously—far mere than, he trusted, their Lordships would countenance when they heard the amount. But it did not give all, and by re fusing a part it let in the claims of the Crown. It was not the Governor alone who had a discretion in this case. Their Lordships were called on by the Constitution of the country to exercise their discretion also. He had now to inform them of the amount of the g ift which was about to be m a d e , an d i t was t h e more necessary that he should do so, became as he had the honour to inform them on a former occasion, the Government had refused in the Council to give any account of the amount of the property which this ordinance puts into the possession of the Seminary. Therefore the petitioners had thought proper to inform their Lordships, through him, of the amount, which was in the whole as much as 260,6251. The assessment on the buildings within the city was, generally speaking, below the real value ; it had been made for the purposes of local taxation, and in some cases was no criterion of the actual worth. The real value was 26,400/. It was stated that not much more than one-fourth of the land within the city limits was built upon. A number of valuable buildings had been erected since 1836, which were not included in this account. These would make the amount 50,000/. The Rev. Prelate then referred to the value of the other seignories, which was not as gre it as that of St. Sulpice. The latter seignory con tained 70,000 acres. He would not enter into mi nute detail ; but the result was, that there must be 100,0001. more added for the items which he had now mentioned. The Noble Marquis smiled ; but he could assure him that there were two gentlemen then in London who would he glad to be examined a• tl:c bar of their Lordships' House for the purpose of corroborating that statement. Titus they had got a sum total of .520,000/. Oa the securities of the estates in Canada the interest was 6 per cent. The annual proceeds, therefore, of this property, would be no I.iss than 30,000/. per annum, the whole of which was most munificently given by this ordinance to the ecclesiastics of the Seminary of St. Sulpice.—( Heat%) Noes who were these ecclesiastics ? They were Ro man Catholic ecclesiastics—that was no reason why they should be deprived of their dult—he would not en that ground think of asking their Lordships for an ad verse vote; but it was a reason for calling on the Legislature of this Protestant country to consi der e`'ore they granted so enormous n sum to support the interests of the Roman Cathcic Church in a country where 30,0001. a-year, large as it has in England, was a sum of most appalling amount. It was equal to one-third of the revenues of the Lowe , Province, the whole of which scarcely exceeded 100,000/. a-year. Were they prepared to give by that ordinance a sum equal to one-third the revenues of the Province of Lower Canada, for the purpose of supporting the Roman Catholic religion? They shoul well consider before they consented to this ; they should consider whether it was right to endow this Roman CA r.holic Seminary in such. a manner as to make it richer than the Church of England and all the other Protestant Churches in the Colony put together ; 30,000/. was seven times the whole amount given by the Government for the support of the clergy of Lower Canada ; 4,000/. a year was the pitiful sum doled out by the Government to the clergy of Lower Ca nada, and that was not permanent, but was to drop off as the individuals receiving it died. Let them contrast that with the liberal manner in which it was proposed to endow this Popish Seminary with 30,000/. a year : it was enabrng them in future generations to secure the triumph of their Church. Montreal was a city containing a vast number of poor. Large numbers of emigrants, landed there every year from this country and from Ireland. There were no Poor-laws there —no means of alleviating the distresses of the Poor. The giving 30,0001. to a body of ecclesiastics to distri bulc among such a population was, in fact, enabling them to plant the standard of their Church triumphant. They had not been commonly just to the Church of England, they had not even done that which they were hound to do by statute law. The law both of England and Ca nada was—and instructions to carry that law out were given to all the Governors of Canada—that the tithes due to the Protestant clergy should be collected by the Government and employed in the maintenance of the Pro testant clergy, and that in all cases cf vacancies the amounts that might accrue should be kept for the main tainance of tke Protestant clergy. Now he believed there was not a single instance in Canada of a cure lacing le gally entitled to the tithes, because there IT a 3 not one who was liCensed by the Governor. The result was that the Protestant clergy had lost every shilling of their tithes, because the Government had neglected to collect them. It was impossiblo to forget the measure dealt out to the Church of England—the beggarly sum la la:ch the Protestant clergy had received. Let their Lordships recol lect it was their sacred duty to support that Church. He grieved to hear thit a majority of their Lordships in tended to vote against his motion, that they would yield a reluctant consent for the purpose of obtaining other ob jects than this ordinance, the result of which would inevitably be to papalize Lower Canada.-4 Hear, hear.) Canada he had always considered as the right arm of England, if they thought to papalize it was the best method of uniting it to Protestant England, let them at once avow their object. For his part, he felt bound by the duty he owed to a Higher Power to protest against any measure likely to produce such an effect. Whatever might be the right which the Seminary claimed, it could not claim to be placed upon a better footing than the pa rent Seminary stood under the French Crown. The Se minary cf St. Sulpice at Montreal was an off shoot of the Seminary of St. Sulpice of Purls. That Seminary was endowed with the signeurie of Montreal in the year 1667 by letters patent from Lous XIV. The Right Rev. Pro late then read the letters patent, from which it appeared that the object fur which the College was endowed with the Island of Montreal by Louis XIV. was for the conver sion and instruction of the natives in the religion of France. Such was the state of the Seminary under the French Crown, and the Crown of France had the light to see how the purposes were fulfilled for which the endowment wai riven. Those purposes were not private, they were ge neral public purposes. The object was a great State ob ject, the conversion and instruction of the Indians, and the instruction of the subjects at large of the Fi each Crown in Canada. So that before the conquest of Canada that Seminary held this property subject to the duties imposed upon them by the endowment, and the Crown was em powered and bound to see how they discharged those du tics. He need not say that when the conquest took place, the King of England received the province of Canada exactly under tie circumstances in which the sovereignty of that province had been enjoyed by France. He was qu:te sure that none of their Lordships would deny such was the result of the conquest, and that the right of con quest was, that the conquering Sovereign should succeed to all the power over the conquered province which had previously been enjoyed by the former Sovereign. It ap peared, therefore, that, by the treaty of peace of 1763, by which the Province of Canada was ceded for ever to the Crown of Great Britain, that all the rights pre-errinences and authorities, that belonged to the King of France before the conquest, were conferred by the conquest to the King of Great Britain. Their Lordships would therefore, see that the Seminary, even supposing it had continued, would have been bound to have dispensed the vast endowments conferred upon it in the fulfilment of those great public purposes, the conversion of the Indians and the instruction of the Christians in that province—they were bound to do thet under the direction of the Crown. From the circumstances which then, and for mnny years af:erwards, exited in the province, they could not be surprised tat the King of Er gland should be very un willing to exercise the full right which he had by con quest over the Seminary, and over the province. They could not be surprised that he did not immediately insist upon these revenues being dispensed fir the conversion of Indians and the instruction of the natives, recording to the doctines of the Church of E• glairl; yet he hal had strictly that right. He ven ture t ro hope that he would he contradicted by more th in one Noble Lor 1 if he were wrong in that opinion. Grotius laid it. down " That all the rights which were pos sessed by the Sovereign bef .rc the conquest should be held by the conqueror, unless, at the time of cession, those rights were yielded on his part." It was the duty of the Savereign of this country to see that those funds were ap plied i i the best mlnner, according to the solemn obliga tions by which he was bound, to the conversion cf the In dians, and for the education of all his subjects in that part .of his dominions. He was not going to argue now that tl.e whole funds should b 3 applied to the education of his Protestant subjects. If the French Church had disconnected itself from the Pope of Rame, and after the exemple cf the Church of England ha I reformed itself, whilst the ecclesi ts'ie3 of St. Sulpice, in Paris, were in actual possession of the property in Toe lion, would it not be the duty cf the King of France to direct the convent to apply its propc ty to the se vice of the reformed Church, as had been done in th's country, whe e all the endowments that belonged to the Church of England when it was Popish now'telorged to the Church of Eng land, being Protestant and Reformed? Was the right of the King of England less in the can nation of their Lord slip=, because he was their own S ,vereign, than they would concede to the King of France ? Had he not now the same right over those funds in Canada which the King of France would have now if the Church in that country had become teormed, whilst Canada was in his possession ? If the opposite doctrine were held, the re salt would be that the subjection of Canada to this Prot .start cour,t7 would preserve the funds of St. Sulpice for the perpcteal sustentation of Po;:ery. It had been said that this was a question which apper!ed to their fear , . Within four-and-twenty hours he had been emi ade 1 of the ea g.'r from excitement if this ordinance of the Gave nor-General and hi 3 Special Council were re. yoked. He was not aware that the Governor-General, or tis Special Ccuned, were entitled, in a very eminent de gree, to respect. Ho had had the satisfaction of bearing t e e m N e o nt b ha e tt h V be i l s , Viscount at the head of her Majesty'; Go vernmeat that n' instructions had been sent out for the m fr 'nlivg of this crlinance. There was to be an ordi ftroo excitement, r b e u n t c this e o f herps r t Majesty's ty n ,rsd Ministers.n ce wa3 madeßut with r o c u s t p the v:e.vedr were ts o f t n co m je iu Mcnt. c e f a e l je d old b tae y British the had bed which, at the hazard of t'viir lives, B it ish Crown—thatntcre sit whole of tha'. hod with gent dissatisfaction by the ordinance was' ° ' two gentlemen agLefn tl i e e m S e P ri e of f i of Amongst twenty-f our the petitioners against it were eighteen out pose ed by n hieeoeurrr weaken em o ai f es t t h d e ,s s A u l l ag ei is w tr r a: G o s e ! and it had alsobeten t op T posed vi sao t b i r t sd e t stood b n t e e ra a l, s o u n it ( e l i by to fo h u i r m ill b e y n 1 - C on o t u r n e c a i l l :tha lt t }tad e t t h h e e y battalion Irad in which y theM r BritishNl t- tendency of this ordinance was t irno a an t r t g, attachment ceniei dealt nrtut and there coenlremnot on of the tire part of th P e °Pu l l r ' (, ti t a s % tant 3 that ts t uC h nr e fo t a ;; :n 'in i 'n ll ei ts dt a ahneg e m o e m r .a m f i e s lr s n i o n as Captain, there o certainly vv now more than ten. 111 r. Nlatthe.vson said his t s against the ordinance, were not more than twenty Caeadians, were more or leand ha berieve?l they would be glad if it were disallowed, though under the influence of the priests they supported the Bih. u s gave an instance of this. He said he carried the petition round hi 3 own ward, and on asking a Catholic, wh o was an active Magistrate, and a most loyal man,—one te h ose loyalty had exposed hint to the threats of the reb e l s, and who was a churchwarden of a Catholic church, to sign it, he said " You know tire situation in which I am placed. I wish you to go on and prosper. If the petitioners had asked the Government to allow something to the Seminary Til F SUN, LONDON, TEJESDA Y, MARCH 16, 1811. in consideration of their long possession, I would have signed the petition." Now, though the petitioner did not call on the Government to do that, he (the Bishop of Exeter) was prepared to show from documents that they were willing that the Government should give them a sum of not less than 8,0001. a year, a sum equal to any they had received. He thought these authorities were suffi cient to outweigh the vague notions which existed in Eng land respecting the probatilty of rebellion if this ordi nance were not passed. It would seem that the whole British population considered themselves injured ; and well they might, when those who had frankly offered to shed their blood for us we c to be sacrificed for those who were the occasion of that sacrifice. But this was not the only authority he had. The fact was, one of tne greatest and most successful inducements to rebellion in Canada was, that they wouid get rid of all seigniorial dues. Such was the effect of this that M. Neelsom attempte I to re-excite rebellious feelings and re sistance to the British Crown, by stating that they would thus get rid of seignorial dues. And yet they were toad in that House that if they interfere-I between the Governor of Canada and the Crown in this instacce, and obtained for their fellow-Protestants an act of nacre justice, that then, forsooth ! they would have a fresh rebellion. Expediency ;Ind prudence I wbila they were considering these, they seemed to forget that there were other considerations which (acre wont t) have their weight in a British Perliairent. It'ght and &Ay used to Le considered of some weight in th. it de iterations. He knew not whether the time was g ins by, Taut if it were, the chime of common honesty re mained to be preferred, and ought e,:rtainly not to be aban doned. He (the Bishop of Ex, ter) repeated, t!:e funds about to be given by this ordinance were not theirs to They were already give.). They Lelonged to the Con lated fund of the province. By the Act of Union, all revenues at the disposal of the Crown wero surrendered to the Provincial Legislature. On a former occasion ho had shown their Lordships that Vais very claim had been stated by the Commissioners, in 1826, as inclued in the list go en in exchanga for a chit list,, i cf those boons nthe lower province.onsto he But it would be said the Commis sioners said they were equitably entitled to them. `Vi all respect for the Commissioners, he must say there was nothing in this. They 1a I acted with perfect consistency, for what had occurred? In January they offered all the hereditary and other revenues, and, co ?tontine, this very claim of the S./minary of St. Sulpice, as part of what was to I e given in return f_r a civil list. This was refused by the Legisla•ive Assembly, and t' c consequerca was, of course, that the Commissioners were at liberty then t advise a different disposal of this fund. They did se, but advice was not taken ; and was this the list time they had he ird of this proposition ? No, it was r epeated. When Lord Seaton t'rent out as Gore-nor of the Lower Province, in ore irg the Parliament of the Upper Province, he told them that he was commanded to submit to them the surrender of the casual and hereditary revenues of the Crown, in exchange for a C vil List. Now he (the Bishop ( f Exe'er) was ready to admit that, i t strictness, this could not be held to include the revenues cf the lower province. But four days after the Government sent a message to the House of Assembly in Upper Canada, re latiag to the terms of union detvveen the two provinces, in which he gave three comidera ions on which the union was to be based, the second of which was a stipulatien on the part of the Crown, for a sufficient Civil List. The legislature of Upper Canada accepted the offer of the Go vernment, and engaged to assent to the union of the Lower Province, on condition that all the revenues of the Crown should be surrendered.—( Lord Eilenborougla— " Ne, no; not a word of it.")—( Laughter.) He hoped the Noble Lord who denied this would show that it was not the case. It was true that in this despatch nothing was said about the surrender, but it had been sail before. But, whether it were so or not, the question was, whether these revenues of San Sulpice were at the disposal of the Seminary at the time the Act of Union was passed. Now, it could not be denied that they were ; but it was said this ordinance took place before the Act of Union, and therefore separated these revenues from the Crown, that he (the Bishop of Exeter) denied, and therefore he repeated that they were about generously to give away what had already been disposed of. This was one of those points on which he congratulated him self on having the support of the Noble Duke. He felt that be had long trespassed on their Lordship's atten tion, but there was one ether point of no slight import ance, on which it was absolutely necessary that he should trespass a little longer. It related to the character of that Corporation by this ordinance if it were permitted to pass. He spoke with all respect in the presence of two Noble and Learned Lords of great authority, but he would ven ture to say that no body of Popish ecclesiastics could be constituted an ecclesiastical corporation without violating the fundamental laws of this country. It was not the persons, but tho purposes, which constituted an ecclesie astical corporation. Now, this distinction was to be ap plied to an instrument which he had seen, and which pro posed to incorporate certain Popish ecclesiastics in the reign of George the Fourth, and it was signed by Lord Bathurst, then Secretary for the Colonies. In that case, it was true ,that the persons w ere ecc l e siastical, and that they were incorporated, but yet that did not constitute them an ecclesiastical corporation. There were corporv_ tions in Cambridge and Oxford, of which every member might be an ecclesiastic, and yet these were lay corpora tions, having no ecclesiastical purpose. Ho would not say whether it would be wise or lawful to constitute such a corporation .of Popish ecclesiastics in the dominions of the Sovereign of England ; but he would say, that according to the fundamental laws of England, no Popish corporation for ecclesiastical purposes could, salsa republica, be constituted. in the British dominions. Tho statute of 1774, commonly called the statute of Quebec, and the subsequent Act, called the Constitutional Act, expressly declared that the law of Elizabeth, which en aste.d the supremacy of the Sovereign and esta blished the Protestant religion, as that of the State was re-enacted, in respect to Canada, and was t , be in full force in that colony, as well as in Eng land. In that colony, therefore, it was more presumptuous than in any other for the representative of the Sovereign to violate that law. The common law of England re quired every ecclesiastical colony to be visited. The Se mi-any of St. Sulpice must have a visitor, and that should be the ordinary of the diocese, who was dr. Strachan, the Bishop of Quebec. Would Ministers require that Pro testant prelate to visit and examine the Popish ecclesias tics ? The Noble Marquis (Normanby) must have spoken unadvisedly when he said those were the Catholic Bishops of Quebec. It would be a crime to constitute any Catholic Bishop within the dominions of the British Crown. The very terms of the Act which gave the Go vernor and Council the power to pass ordinances, ex pressly forbid them to pass any Act that would alter or affect the rights spiritual or temporal of th e c l erg y o f a ny denomination. So that they were expressly precluded, from this very Act, to prevent the ratification of any measure that went to papalise a whole pro vince of the British empire. He implored their Lordships to interpose that power which the con stitution wisely intrusted to them. If the ordinance were permitted to become law, it would be a viola tion of the fundamental statutes of the country, and a great national crime would be committed. He agsin im plored their Lordships to interpose. The Protest Int cha racter, and the Protestant feeling of the country, de manded from them that proof of their sympathy; and he called on them to join him in Lis motion, for an humble adds ess to her Majesty, praying that she will be graciously pleased to withheld her assent from the ordinance incorpo rating the Seminary of St. Sulpice in Montreal. The Marquis of NORM ANBY—Bef ,re he proceeded to offer such observations as he might think it necessary in answer to the arguments of the Revereed Prelate, he could not avoid saying a word or two upon the declaration with which the Reverend Prelate had commenced his speech— . viz., that but for the manner in which the question had been met upon the former occasion, when he introduced it to the notice of the House. he would not have troubles their Lordships with the mo tion he had concluded with. Of course they could not judge of the intentions of the Rev. Prelate—they could only judge of him by the words he gave utterance to, and he spoke ie the hearing cf the Noble Duke, at d one cr two other N mble Lords who stayed out the debate—he appealed to them wh other the Rev. Prelat e when he tcok the unprecedented course of speaking two hours and a half un the presentation of a petition, did not distinctly state that upon a future occasion he would move their Lordships upon the subject, and whether he did not then, without its being possible for him to know in what way he would le met or answered, state almost the very words of the motion with which he had concluded. The Rev. Pre late, on that occasion, hid appealed to many Nobie Lords who were they absent, no one having had the slightest idea r t the course to be taken by the Rev. Peel ate, but he (the Marquis of Normanby) did not think he had lost anything by their absence. The Rev. Prelate said the ordinance was unconstituti mnal, unwise, unfair, and un just to the Provinces generally. He had almost assumed that it was a project that had never been heerd of before; but if they would refer to the proceedings of that Howe only two years ago, they would find that the sub ject was not so new as it was reeresented by the Rev. Pielete. When his lamented friend Lord Durham was Governor-General of Canada, Mr. C. Bul'er hal repotted upon th.! subject. That report he had laid on th 9 table of the House ; and in the June of that same yeerk e he had laid upon the table the ordinance which had bed r 1 passed by Sir J. Colborne, cent einly merely as a project , because ti en the Special C ounc il h a d not the power to lass !avg. Parliament had g ran t e I t h at power t o the Special Coun cil ; and it was most important that they should not now act in direct contradiction to what they had done two years ago. Their Lordships would inflict singular injus tice upon the gentleman composing the Seminary, hest muse the matter was one of bargain with them. The Rev. Pie late said it was an improvident bargain, but he would show their Lordships that the contrary was the case. From all the information ho could obt lin, those gentlemen were pc. culiarly easy as landlords. lie was told that it was their habit to commute their property for one half its value. They hal not pressed the is rights to the utmost. d i d they disposer f ther funds? Ile hal good authority for stating that they only expended 100/. a year on them selves, and devoted 47 per c mt. of ther income to char:- table purposei. An institution of such a nature ha thought ought not to have Leen made the foundation of such a me_ ii "' Th e Right Rev. Prelate had quoted time statement of two persons in support of his argutnant. tie had pre sieusly furnished him (the Marquis) with the names of better if he had t those parsons, but it would have been • old him the facts to which they were to te,tify, as he could then have made inquiries as to the truth of their state ments. Fiona the inquiries he had made of pinions yr:- nceted with Canada, he did meet belie .o that the Right Rev. Prelate's informants were at all well informed on the subject. Oee of them was a person from Greenock, who had no property in C made, sod who had not lung resided in the c. 1 oar, and though, yeal:aps , h i g hl y re apact:ble men, they were neither of them in such a situation as to wsr. an t the R an t t Reveretel Pratte t o ca ll u p on their L rdshipe on their unsupported authority to coot edict the statements made i a a despatch from the Governor of Caned:. An old Protestant Cana dian barri•t r had assured him (the Marquis of Nor_ mangy) that this was not a quo fon bs tercel Canadian; sod Laglisti. That the groat bulk of time old English set. tiers were in favour of the orditianco. He also denied that the revenues in question were of time immense amount ! which the Right Reverend Prelate supposed, and that nothing could be more fair or liberal than their conduct in all pecuniary transactions. Tic Right Reverend Prelate had said a great deal as to the illegality of the ordinance, contending that it was contrary to the Act of Supremacy. He was not qualified to speak as an authority on that sub ject, but en that, as well as on other legal points con nected with the ordinance. be had, before quitting the Co lonial-office in 1839, asked the opinion of the law officers of the Crown, and they gave it as their opioion that there was nothing to prevent the Special Council of Canada from passing such an Act. Since that his Noble Friend who was now at the head of that department had again submitted that ordinance to the legal advisers of the Crown, together with all that had been urged rga'nst its and their opinion on that point still remained equally decided in favour of its legality. The Right Reverend Prelate had alluded to the opinion of Sir J. Stuart. Now, that Learned Gentleman had, as a member of the Special Council voted in favour of the ordinance.—( Hear, hear.) Ti e Right Reverend Prelate had always argued at if Canada was a Protestant province; but he thought he could show that yeti )us high author Lies had hell that the Catholic religion was the established religion of the pro vince. —( Hear, Lear.) By the capitulation of Montreal, dated the sth of September, 1760, it was agreed that all the communions of priests should be maintained in all their rights, privileges, and possessions. Now, the Right Reverend Prelate had stated that one of the condisions of their foundations was that th ty should devote some por iisn of their time to the contusion of the Indians, and that they had not done so; that, consequently, if the country had been under the dominion of the King of France, they would lave forfeited ill it posses.i )!IP, arid that, consequently, the conquest of Canada arts the su.- tentation of Popery. Now, the execution of than duty had never been required of them by the British Govern ment, and so far from any neglect being imputable to them, all her Majesty's Governors had borne testimony to their faithful dischasge of their duties. He now came to the Treaty of Paris. The Earl of Halifax had, on tie t art of the British Government, agreed by that treaty to the following article. (The Noble Marquis here trans lated the article from the treaty, which set forth, that al though the King of England engaged to guarantee the free exercise of the Roman Catholic religion, it did not follow that he would consent that the bien-jends of the Ecclesiastical bodies should belong to the subjects of France, living in France, but that the priests of the Sc miaary at Mon , re,l should c sntinue to enjoy their property without any dependence on the Seminary at Paris. The Earl of MOUNTCA SHE L doubted the correct ness of the translation ; he shout 1 like to hear the original. The !Marquis of NORM ANBY would read the article in French the Ti e Noble Marquis then read the ar ticle in the orisidal French, when it appeared that his translati , n had been a perfectly cm est on.) He appre hended the Noble Earl would not find fiat his transit ion had been incorrect.—( Cheers. ) He now came to the Act of 1774 ; and when that Act was discussed before their LartlAi ps, the great Lord Clatham had said that it be hoved their Lordships to pay particular attention to the mea sure, as it was one which established the Roman Catholic re ligion as the religion of a portion of the British dominions. Some of those precedents were of great advantage in show ing the customs of those days. But he would just remind their Lordships that the effect of the Bill to which he had referred was not to give to Canada what it had not pro viously. It was said that by that Bill their Lordships es tablished the Roman Catholic religion where it never was established before, which was not the case. In the good old days to which the Right Rev. Prelate alluded they only permitted the practice of their own religion. He (the Mar quis of Normanby) had hitherto been reading only what was stated by the opponents of the Bill ; let them now see what was said by its supporters. The Prime Minister of " that excellent monarch, who was never to he mentioned without reverence"—( Laughter)—Lord N , ,rth--stated, after once the city of Quebec was settled in the hands of this nation, it was a matter of indifference to us what law or what religion was established the e so long as it made the people happy. That was the manner is which Lord North advocated the Bill, and if they considered the cir cumstances under which that Minister spoke, they would perhaps be much surprised. Lord North was the favou ri:e Minister of " that excellent sovereign who was never to be mentioned a ithout reverence," he was not one of these Ministers whom '6 that excellent sovereign," occasionally, and with somewhat singular expedition, got rid of if they did not please him, but he was one whom through good and evil report and much odium, hemaintained as his first adviser for many years. Those were the opinions g'ven on both sides, and that was what they imagined would be the effects of the Bill which they were passing. That was the colony which the Right Rev. Prelate, coining a new word, said they were about to papalize. That papalised ;colony was so treated by Lord North, by Cul. Barry, and by Lord Chatham. But he (the Marquis of Normanby) would now read to their Lordships another paragraph, from the statement of a man, in whose composition there was much of the philosopher, and who, however, ho was car ried away in moments of excitement was, in monteats of reflection, generally supposed to be an accurate 'observer-- he meant Mr. Burke. That individual, in a letter to Sir Hercules Langrisb, with respect to the Irish Roman Catholics, said, " I voted last session for the establi,hment of the Church of England, conjointly with the establish ment which was made some years before by Act of Par.. Lament, of the Roman Catholic religion in the conquered country of Canada." Those were the opi nions of Burke. Those were the opinions which the Right Rev. Prelate ought in the course of the recess to have made himself acquainted with. He (the Marquis of . Norrnarahy) would next draw their Lordships attention to the Ecclesiastical Corporation estab lished by Lord Bathurst in the year 1821. The Right Rev.. Prelate said that that was not an ecclesiastical corporation of Romish priests. How did the Right Rev. Prelate make out that ? It was composed of the Roman Catholic Bishops for tho time being, and of his two coal jutori. The Right Rev. Prelate did not attempt to draw any distinction between those t .vo corporations. He should Lite to know whether the Right Rev. Prelate did or did not know of that letter of Lord Bathurst creating an Ecclesiastical Corporation ? The Bishop of EXETER_I did not know of its ex istence. The Marquis of NORMANBY said that before the Right Reverend Prelate brought the subject he fore their Lordships he ought certainly to havo inquired whether there Has such a corporation. The Right Rev. Prelate had addressed their Lordships at great length upon the statements of the Commissioners, and ha-I read the statements of one Commissioner in par ticular. Now, if had read the protest of his friend upon this subject, he would have found in the last few lines these words:—" In Canada, within late years, more than one Roman Catholic c.illege his been incorporated."— ( Hear, hear.) Now, that was a species of information which the Right Rev. Prelate ought to have availed him self of before ho made the assertion that this was the first time any Roman Catholic priests had been incorporated. In the year 1826 Lord Bathurst suggested there should be an amicablo suit to try the right of the Seminary ; and under the Colonial administration of Mr. H us ksson him Bishop of Quebec?--( Hear, hear.) What did Par liament do—ghat did the Estimates c f the House of Commons call him ?—(Hear, hear.) Was he not the Bishop of Qusbcc, aid was he not so called ?—( Hear, hear.) He really, at the time it was made, thought that was a most insufficient ground, and if it had come from less reverend lips—(Laughter)—he should ha e said it was a most ridiculous ground on which to found a charge against the Government.—( Cheers ) The Right Rcv. Prelate bad talked of his (the Marquis of Normanby's) despatches. The clerks in the office had made a most di ligent search, but no despatch had been found, in which he bad talked at all cf the Bishop of Quebec. —( Hear, hear.) That despatch might have escaped from the archives of the Colonial-office; but even if the Right Rev. Prelate had been right in his f -eta which he was no t, h e (th e Ma-q. of Normanby ) did not think that lie ought to have been siegled out for an attack when he would only have done that which Lord Bathurst had done in the year 1821, and which evcry successive estimate of the House of Commons had done. Lord Bathurst, in writing to the Earl of Dalhousie in 1821, had oely condemned his taking the title of Archbishop. So much for the Bishop , of Quebec. But the Right Rev. Prela e Was very apt to deal in accusations upon very slight and tri iel grounds, and the Right Rev. Pi elate must give him leave to say, that when he accused the Ministers of the Crown of supportiog another religion at the expense of their own, he made a very serious accusation which was very ill supported. What the Government really were doing, sni what he trusted they would persist in doing, was attempting to give fair, full, and complete opera ion to the Act which was passed by the Noble Duke opposite, for the emancipation of the Catholics=.—(Hear, hear.) Such was the elle ct, such the intention, and such, he conceived to be the duty of the Government with respect to that Bill to a hich the Right Rev. Prel etc gave his vi gorous opposition at one time, but to which afterwards he did give, he presumed, his reluctant consent— ( Hear, hear, and laughter.) The Right Rev. Prelate at that time wielded a pen not a crosier.—( Laughter.) The Right Rev. Prelate very soon after the pa ;sing of the Catemlic Emancipaion Act—and be (the Marquis of Normanby) would not apply to him a pbraie which he was very apt to apply to her Majesty's Ministers—he would not say " Quoad hoc, ergo propter hoe," but certainly he might say, " post hoc," for the Right Rev. Prelate was ;Ake e I shortly afterwards to give to those who were at the time Members of their Lordships' House the advaetage of his presence. —( G e laughter.) Having gone torough all those subjects, he could not help saying that when he was called upon to vote that the ordi nance was unconstitutional, he must call upon their Lordships to take into consideration the legality of the Legislature to which they bad given legality, the previous income of the Seminary, and the manner in which the Seminary had been treated by the Crown e. er since th conquest. He trusted that th it Lordships would not accede to the motion of the Right Rev. Prekte, that they would refuse to throw the curse of religious discord into a community that, whatever might be its errors, whatever might be the causes which produced civil strife, yet, never theless, had been always singularly remarkable for Chris tian spirit and peaceful piety. He trusted that their Lordships would pause before they interfered and advised her Majesty to withhold her confirmation from the ordi nance which was in accordance with general equity, that they would not do that which would interrupt the growing prosperity of that colony. He therefore entreated their Lordships to give a decided negative by a large majority to the motion of the Right Rev. Prelate. The Earl of RIPON had listened with great attene lien to the speech of the Right Rev. Prelate, both that night and on the previous occasion, when he presented the petition to the House, but he had not been able to discover the principle upon which he c died upon the House to in terfere and prevent the ordinance from becoming law.— ( Hear, hear.) Judging from the speech of the Right Rev. Prelate on the presentation of the petition, he would have supposed that the Rev. Prelate objected upon a principle, viz., that there ought not to exist in any part of the Queen's dominions anything that could be urged as tending to the support of the Roman Catholic religion. But the Rev. Prelate had himself abandoned that high ground of principle, for he stated that he was prepared to give up a certain portion of the sums which, under the ordi nance, must fall into their hand,. If he gave up any part of those sums he gave up the principle.—( Hear.) But there was one view of the subject which had not been looked upon, which was, the position of the Sovereign and Parliament with respect to colonies obtained by con quest. If they conquered colonies, and found an estab lished religion existing there different from their own, what were they to do—were they -to extinguish it and establish their own ? lie said that justice and policy forbad it.—( Hear, hear.) The policy of England had always been of a totally different description. Common sense must necessarily dictate that they could not firat ob tain, and then keep, any colony, if they put such condi tions upon them us must eagender eternal discord.— ( Hear, hear.) When he was in office he found, that ever since the conquest, the Seminary had practically exercised all the powers and authority which it was proposed to give it by the ordinance, and no one, during that whole period, had ever set up the principle that, because they were Roman Catholics, they ought not to have those powers. The only question was whether there ought to be any corporation enjoying the tenures of the ci'y of Montreal. When he was in of he had been obliged to advert to the proceedings authorised by the Earl of Bathurst, Sir George Murray, and Mr. Huskisson, and lie found that not one Government since the conquest had ever attempted to put their legal right in force, notwithstanding all the opinions of the Law Officers of the Crown. It was a case in which was most fit, prudent, nay, he would say, honst, to make a compromise. It was possible that the parties might fail in their defence if they had the whole power of the Crown against them. But the Crown would be placed in a most invidious position if it pursued its claims against them. The Rev. Prelate had talked of their committing a great national crime is establishing a Roman Catholic Corporation, but he (the Earl of Ripon) would not find anything to reproach his conscience with in voting against the Rev. Prelate. The Duke of WELLINGTON entirely concurred with the latter part of the speech of the Noble MarquiQ, that what ever had been done with the great proportion of the property stated by some to belong legally to the Crown, and by others to the Seminary of St. Sulpice, he could never feel other wise than that it had been made over to the province of Canada by the Act of Union—still, although he had thought that, he had never doubted for one moment that ample provision must have been made for the equitable rights upon that property belonging to the Seminary of St. Sulpice. When he spoke upon the question upon the previous occasion, he confessed that be was not then aware of what had passed upon a similar subject while he was in the Cabinet. He had totally forgotten the trans action of 1822. Ho was then in the Cabinet, and must have been a party to all that was done by the Earl of Bethune with respect to St. Nicolay. He must have been aware of that transaction, but he had totally for gotten it, and, until he had read the papers upon the sub ject, he had had no notion that it was of the nature which it appeared to be by tine despatch of Lord Bathurst. The Rev. Prelate had endeavoured to draw a distinction be that particular proposition was propounded ; neptiations were carried on without any rault, but the strict and the .... legal right had never been givcn up by the Semin ar y. - He could not help asking the Right Rev. R elate whether ha did nct think that some explanation was due to their Lord ships for t'ne manner in which he quoted, on a former occasion, a despatch if the Noble Earl opposite (Ripon), and of the Elie which he attempted in the absence of the Noble Earl to make of his authority, when, from the very docu ment in his hand, if he had real one fentence farther, he must have known that that which he had quoted to their Lordships had nothing whatever to do with t,:e views he tween the corporation established by Lord Dalhousie un der the directions of Earl Ba hurst, and the corporation which was to be established by the ordinance under consi. aeration ; and he lud made it out to be an ecciesimtical corporation, because it referred to eccloiastical objects and purposes. He had also endeavoured to make out that St. Nicolay was not an ecclesiastical corporati , m. Now in his opinion the one was precisely the same as the other, and nearly in the same words.—(Cheers.) He must have been a party to the despatch establishing St. Nicolay, and he must admit that was an ecclesiastical corporation, established for Roman Catholic objects, and no others. had attempted to urge.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Rev. Prc live, quoting the despatch of his Noble Friend opposite, re!«! el a pa,sage which ended with thin sentence— The decision of the que tion r.vour th'e to the Seminary would involve consequences which every Canadian, what ever his national origin or religious persuasion might be, would alike have re ison to reprobate." Whet' the Right Rev. Prelate used these words he (the Marquis of Noi manby) thought there was something behind, because even that carefully extracted sentence did not bear out the inft re.nce he had attempted to draw. If this were a religious question how would it satisfy those of every re ligious persuasion ? But the Right Rev. Prelate broke off there, and said he was proud to have the authority of the Noble Lord opposite. The Noble Duke (Wellington) saw the impression which was being attempted to be created on that occasion cn the authority of the Noble Earl in favJur of the petit on, and at once dissented from it ; but t' , e very next sentence was, " Such is the necessity of haling a great e )mmerci st city upon a feudal tenure".— (L,ud cries cf " Hear.") Ti., Bishop of EXETER—Those wc,rds I read.— (Cries of " Order, order.") Ile must c mfess there were other transactions and letters on the same subject, at a much later period, which had escaped his recollection. Ile was in his Majesty's service in the years 1834 and 183 k, The Noble Earl (the Eatl of Aberdeen) who sat by 'him, then adopted the de spatch of his Noble Colleague in office (the Earl of Ripon). There was one remark which he (the Duke of Wellington) begged to make cn the instructions of his Noble Friend to the Earl of Amherst, and it was this : His instructions to the Earl of Amherst referred to a list of grievances, to the number of ninety-two, which had been brought forward in the Assembly of Lower Canada; and, adverting to the despatch a his (the Duke of Wel lington's) Noble Friend, the Noble Earl who had just ad dressed their Lordships directed the removal of one of those gri..!vonces. It was impossible that a person who was privy to the instruction could now say that he could not consent to the formation of a corperviou of that descrip. tion on account of e2rtain principles which it was quite clear wee not applicable, and had not Leer a:iplied to Canada for a consider - able number of }ears; therefore he (the Duke of Wellington) certainly felt that he could not. stand upon th grounds which he had st ited the other night to their Lordships as the soure, a of his ob jection to that ordinance, because of that ordinance he himself had been, in two or throe instances, a party to the direction and arrangement ; and it appe :red that esta blishments of the kind had been frcqucnt'y made within the province of Lower Canada. The Right Reverend Prelate had that night gone at some length into the con sideration of the ordinance, with relation to tire prolerty which had been given to the Seminary . of St. Sulpice, which amounted in capital, at 6 per cent., to a revenue of 30,0001. a year. (The Noble Duke here referred to the proceedings of the Commissioner!, to show the exact amount of the revenue and the expenditure of the Semi nary, and the objects for which the grail was made ; faom which it appeared that education and religious wor ship were the main objects of the grant, and the remainder was to be disposed of as the Governree:A rei . ,;lo. sanction.) Now, really he (the Duke of Wellington) must say that there could be no reasonable objection against the objects first set forth. It was for the Noble Lord opposite to consider in what way he should remove the inconvenience that would arise if the Act of Parliirrent should er er-ride the ordinance ; and, taking that view of t.L.e matter, hr (the Duke of Wel!iagton) thought that the Right Reverend Prela'e would have The Marquis of NORMANBY—If the Right R v. Prelate says he read thoie words, of course I am bound to believe he did, but I have not the slightest recollection of having heard,thern, and I attended very closely to what he said. Ne . ther had my Noble Friends near me any recol lection of having heard thern.—(llear.) The Noble Marquis then went on to say, that there was another extra ordinary eircumstaace attending it. There were several report; of the Right Rev. Prelate's speech. In all the reports except one, those words were omitted; and, with respect to that one, he would not then make any observe.- t;ons, because that Right Rev. Prelate had stated that he did use those words. At the same time he c mid not help thinking that the Right Rev. Prelate might have in teneed to use those words, but did not, Le:ause, at the end of the quotsition, in the only one piper that contained the worth, were an " &e."--(Great laughter, and cries of " Lear.") N9w, as" &c." was uncommonly like an ex- trait which a Noble Lord or Right Rev. Prela'e furnished Ito some reporter after having made his speech.— (Thu Bishop of Exeter intimated that he did furnish the extract.) The Right Rev. Pre!..te had stated that he did use words, yet, as this was a qu.sti in of recollae fon, and although the Right Rev. Prelate's rceollecti might be better than his (the Marquis of Normanby's), yet recollection was not infallible, and the ROA Rev. Pee late might be mi , taken: The Right Rev. Prelate always sat very near her Majesty's Ministers, he .elected a plaee very unusual (the corner ( f the table), and her Majesty's Government were very often interrupted by him is tin ie communications.—( (fear, hear, and laughter.) But, of course, if the Right Rev. Prelate made no communicat of the extract to any reporter__ The Bishop of EXETER —I said • I did. The Marquis of NORMA NBY would not thm say another word. It was nov Clear 'II it the Right Rev P. e htte's reeolleaian must have failed him, and that his and his Noble Friend's recoil action were right ; and the Right Rev. Prelate, though he dad the words written down, did not use them on that occasion. —(Hear, hea-.) then, ho came to another point. The Right Rev. Prelate had made an attack upon his Noble behind him ( herd (Melbourne) wad himself, and had said the present Governmaat, more thin any other G. vernmcnt that ever exieed, whatever its intentions might have Leen, its sets all tended to support the Popish religion at the expensed their o C. Having, he supposed, never he ird cfthe Act of 1794,0 r the Quebec Ac', the Right Rev. Prelate had stated that he (the Margais of Norrnanby) g.,ve to the Rena Catholic Bishap the title of the Bishop of Quebec, and had made that a charge agai n st bins. \Thy, did not L or d Bathurst, in his conunnnicatiJn with the Governor, call )00 — Letter_ to leave the question to iti own difficulties, He might have thus obtained the object desired, and not se,k to enhance the difficulties of the matter by dividing the House upon the goe,tion. By dividing the House he could not obtain the objects wbieh he sought. The result of his (the Duke of Wellington's) consideration of the docu ments which had been last brought to h's remembrance, was that ho had determined to give his vote that night against the proposition made by the Right Rev. Pt elate. The Bishop of EXETER said that he would first take notice of the speech of the Noble personage who had just sat down, and who was entitled to his first a!tention on every occasion. However disappointed he (the Bishop of Exeter) was at the vote which the Nuble Duke Lad announced his intenti ,n of giving, he did not nick to make the slightest complaint of the inconsistency which marked that declaration. (The Right RLv. Prehte here entered into statements to show that no comparison could be fairly instituted between the Seminaries of St. Nicolay and St Sulpice, the former of which was, he con tended, established for the purposes of genc>ral education, the teaching of the French, Latin, and English laugua L ;es, yhdoscphy, mathematic?, &c. The latter fur the pur oss!s of spiritual instruction and the cure of souls, and that, he said, constituted an ecclesiastical corporation. He (the Bishop of Exeter) would not divide the MUSO on that night, for by reason of the Noble Duke's declaralia. 9 1 ' such a proceeding would not settle the question. if Lords might call for a division when he sat dow n ; bar d Lc was obliged ta go Lelow the bar of that Howe, an t alone, he would have no feeling of shame for himself, to of regret, for the feeling that would be entertained -i wards others, who had not accompanied hirn.—(f icar. The Noble Marquis had referred in a buoyant maaref°' r-- - (Laughter)—to Mr. Burke, Lord Chatham, Lord Holithe and Lord North, with something of a sneer at G eor g e le N i b Third.—(" No, no.") He said, " Yes, yes." Tba Ala-quis had thought fit to sneer at that Sovereign, ju° hep most of their Lordships rev red, and whom he (ti e of Exeter) especially revered as a moat pi ins and adrahlhe able monarch.—( !Icor. ) But be bad the authority a e Noble Marquis himself, and of all who sat o n the .aatil,,-f bench with and of all who bad se rved the SovcrOga,.; this country in the same stations sirce the year 1760, "e the first Royal Instructions were sent out to Caneda• instructions. and all sub equently rent out, said it ell's t ott , indkpensaLle duty of the Governor, at the same tila c t u b - he consulted the religious f, eiings of the Kin's jucts, he should not allow the Roman Cathoic to be eea, g , l o dered the Estal Billed Church, which character belongol, the Chu-eh of England alone in all his Majosty'i d am e / nines. The Noble Marquis referred him to the artielest. the capitulation. But in the answer to the 34th article, ca,t claims of the cecleliasties of Sr. Sulpice were refuse until the lii;•g's pleasure should be known. The Earl of RADNOR—Read the 32d article. The Bishop of EXETER said that the 32d article ferred only to the nuns. Th Noble Earl might shak e head. rew sa The Earl of RADNOR—Read the 32d article. ure a The Bishop of EXETER read the article. It s c , c „. 4 . to the corm - neuritic-, their constitution, and priviieb-e... The demand in the 34th article was for a similar i(e.W el viz) , to St. Sulpice, but it was refused until the pleasure should be known. The Noble Marquis bad ;e0 from the Report of Sir C. Grey that there d . er e several Catholic colleges incorporated; and $o might be, butt to they were lay, not ecclesiastica l carp the' tions. If the Noble Nla , -quis chose to suit his e y es be distinction, the Noble Viscount ( Melbourne) could neltba blind to it. [ln explanation of the allusion made b l, f aes Noble Viscount to the report of his speech in th 3 ,:tier newspape-, the Rev. Prelate was about to road a from the Reporter for that journal, when be WO ; t he rupted by loud cries of " Order" from all ps il a, P sk House, to which, after a lea words from the Earl e.,1 KB folk, who rose to order, he at length gave wai'illoose, would not trey ass further on the attention of the - t he but he felt great satisfaction at what had fallen freer Noble Duke, that the rejection of his motion wo uld prevent the further consider-4'on of this question. b oa The Doke of WELLINGTON said he had n ot " s r, understood by the Rev. Prelate. Ile had 00 1 1%0 gumcnt, although it might be a bad one. He r ,b a " as; that this ordinance was not at this moment law ` lll ' 3 „(if and as it was passed subsequently t 3 the Act of U nl i tlP tltig last year), if it were contrary to anything contained 'a Act, a remedy would be found.—( Hear.) a die The Bishop of EXETER hoped that. in that vii - t he Noble Lord near him would consider the subje a !l/41 0 t same light which he had presented it.—(Cries a ble no," from Lord Melbourne ) He only asked the Viscount to consider whether it was not contrary t o j 6 ". (No, no.) 00 The Marquis of NORMANBY was sorry tc) "Aerri/e1 the Rev. Prelate of the satisfaction which be had m , e- 13 01 from the source referred to.—(Hear, and laughter- i.holer he had already informed the Rev. Prelate that t be r . o ooo question was submitted to the law officers of the ce • and their opinion was decitedly in favour of the ordinsa-ba —(Hear, hear.) He bad told the Rev. Prelate the his could not find in the Colonial-office any docuraent,ff, of in which he styled any person the Catholic Di' tbs Quebec. He asked the Rev. Prelate to name to bill° document upon which he founded that charge ? , The Bishop of EXETER said, if the Noble 1 0 0 had given him notice, be would have brought th e meat down with him. But he had it not with hi'a, ;or It was, he , believed, a return of the ecclesiasticsl3ol blishments in Canada, presented by the Noble IVlall u id 1639, in which it was stated that 2,0001. had boa P s the salary of the Roman Catholic Bishop of Queb ee ' r tea l The Marquis of NORMANI3Y said, that ele s , a the annually made to the House of Commons, in w 1;e; " - ibea" Bishop alluded to had been always so styled by his N ormanby's) predecessors s i nce th e conquest...-. laughter on all sides.) The Bishop of EXETER sa id th e N o bl e Marqu is othe r laugh, but he would cause hi m t o l aug h upon the , - Ste' side.—( Renewed laughter.) The document Wai l° gular annual return. be l i ef The Marquis of NOR MA NBY could net saY W h iet it was or not, as the Rev. P re l a t e did not enabl e ,j - c tie ° know anything about it. B u t th e ecc l es iastics in were so styled in all the.rcturns.—( Hoar, hear.) oc e The question was then put and the motion wa s tived without a division. The Houso then Adjourned at Half-past Nino. - - - - - T HE MARKETS. PRICF 11RED. The Wghest orhe ;read i O the 11ct A roplis 13 9!4- .1 fo r the oaf. Good Bread may be had at 7%d. OF SEEDS. e# Per Cwt. 1 ....0" . 0 ikTew EugEsh Red Clover...6os COs St. Fein ............ .. ....... s 1 8 ',,s Old Ditto Ditto —s —s —s Rye Grass .................. 5 . . ,S a i New Foreign Ditto —s 55s 70s Pacey Grass ................. bps 2, Olt Ditto Ditto —s —s —s Linseed, for feeding... , 60 1 4 9. New White Clover 45s 50s Ms Ditto, for sowing .•••••• -- f t 4 66 Os ..... mtA Old Ditto Ditto —s —s —s!Ditto, for crushir:g ..•• s ;tr- 961 new Tre oil .... —s :30s 45s'ilan, , ............. . ......... ... - 0 03 Old liitto s 2Os 30s Canary ..................... . ..or, Tr folium -8 4Se 7081 Per Buslieh od t o 1; of English Carraway —s 50s slsWhite Mustard... lls od to/ od Foreign Ditto —. 46s SOs Brown Ditto ps IC BO 7S 6d Coriander —s Hs ll,,s,Tares Per Quai PItICE OF OIL. Rape Oil, brown, per ton , Ditto, refined Linseed Oil Lins,:ed Oil Cake at the Mill Rai e Cake, per ton PRICE OF TALLOW Town Tallow .. .£2 11 61 Yellow Russia White Soap Ditto 0 0 0 COAL 114 Ships arrived since L s. d. Bell, Robson & Co. Hartley 17 6 klolywell Ma n l9 I! Original Windsor's Pontod 17 9 Smith's I'ontop l6 Walls End Hilda . 0 Walls End Killingworth }0 .2 Walls End Russell's Hetton t 3 Walls End Stewart':!. Walls End Kelloe Walls End Adel ,itle 2l Walls End Larrington Tees .7 Xl 5 I° I n ° ` 0 " 1 (per 1000) l4 0 7, SOAP, &c. per 1121 D: ci 18 0 qiNfelting 5tuff..... ...... . 0 Ditto though .................. 0 14 0 Graves ......................... „ I Good Dregs .................. TAIL KET. last market day, 21. 0. $ I 6 g Walls End Evenwooli $ WWAlls End Gordon ............... ail.: E n d Seymour fl ee , 12 I Walls End St.tHelen .. g Val s End 'lces ..........n..... Walls Ent T e es Hetto rk. ..... Walls End Wilton Pa. . jkl 3 Cowper .................. t ..•..... II g Howard's Netherton ... JO Newton Main ............... MARKETS. 1 41 &IN. to Barley, Mecklenburgh '4 5 to TO Magdeburgh.... i 59 to ;56 ---- - to 0. 6, Summer ......... to 1 4 4 Oats, Eider ... . ........ 1 :3 5 tow - Mecklenburg . 0 . 05 to 1 4,74 -- Holstein ........... , r 5 to ~ 4 0 -- East Friesland... 216 tofo Pease, Mecklenburg '• :125 to_ jog Beans ...... . ............... t:5/6 Buck Wheat ......... . ....• t, Rapeseed, Hanover f 35 t. Malt ....................... to '- Tares ....................... CON. to y* Maranham ................ 0 Madras ...................... Surats ....................... . ;Z Domingo ........... " EE. 4% t° 64 ' Domingo .......... ,„, La Guayra ................. Porto Rico .............. ' 4l v 1 savannah ................. ° h SB3 s . Discount.) .. t s* Ban t a, White. ....... .... 5 il k Brown ...........••5 Pernambuco, whiten ...r Brow • i wn, 5 to ei EVENING EDITION, HAMBUR GR Wheat, Manta 3F4 to 951 - Magdeburg 324 to 351 - Anhalt, white 321 to :151 - red 321 to 351 Brunmiel• 221 to 351 Mecklenburg ; to 357, --- Polish -- Holstein Rye, Mecklenburg - to 23 7 - Dantzic - Elbing and Ko nigsburg 229 to 245 -- Upland 11iga COT'J Carolina and Tennessee 7 1 4t0 Georgia, let Rat 7% 2d 7 L A, 7 :id and 4th ti}. 2 7 COE] rilecha 13 to 13;4 Batavia 5 ,4 Sumatra Rio Pi, 5 1 ,4 Bahia 4% SUGAR.—(Wit Elavannah, White 6 to Brown. 5 64 Rio, White 5 1,4 6% Brown 414 5% Manilla. Bro, he 3 NEWLY-INVENTED SPECTACLES* --.l Lost 1 :1 - • tidal aid afforded to the Sight by Lenses, is one of therms -„,rtse able gifts derived from science, and it i s i n deed of vital c; ‘ , 00: li a ve t m e: tr, roePiccadilly,a p rinciples. nk o f Es boUl d 49 , .ito' that the adoption of Spectacles to imperfect vision, 89 et, eet, to this branch of Science, a n n gO t pl p c enabled them to invent Spectacle Messrs.ap tnohds their here Lenses s S lv h eoi . e sni, a gg Y n u dodir:kvni;ent!nd: extensive be t ° , einapico:n:d...zilih'itt o! which have gained universal approbation. ImMedl3ten'ile-11°-; placed before imperfect vision, either by day or ' 1 ; 1 1 1 0 every object becomrs clear and distinct, so that 3 s ad aged imperfect sight becomes bright and brilliant, Tbai; brought to its youthful, natural, and original st at , e. is p o t Invisible Operative Voice Conductor for deaf Pe rg ' o , —. 4 pie ° the least perceptible nor more uncomfortable than havi n g e- c a wool in its place; they give immediate relief to old ' .- Isoe in treme cases of deafness. Those valuable inventions have a roo tio . the Patronage of the Royal Family, and the unqualified " P i ffledi ca t : of above four hundred of the principal members of tbt rh o bai t professiop, and numerous individuals ef high distinctiOnpe"oces been greatly benefited by their use.—No connexion O it l i eg g 0 .4° the same name. 39, Albemarle-street, opposite the and 76, King William-street, Bank of England. A fie s" STEEL FIRE-IRONS, with Bronze---,., pe 15s. per Set, Bronzed Fenders, ts. A va ri t' tic° terns and prices, from the above to 305., at ile , . iree stre fenders are particularly handsome, with splendid scli the .1; richly intermixed with steel, the ends are steel, I* ofe .iro porters for the fire-irons bronzed. Polished steel ode of from 4s. per set. eel Catalogues gratis, containing the prices of Furnishing Ironmongery. a-Otr eet. RIPPON and BURTON, Wells-street, Oster //as.) Eoablislied 1820. B IR THS. ; the l ad)? On the sth inst., at the Rectory Hurstperr,nt' t h e Isil9 the Onev. Car H. B, of a son% R the 12th inst., t., in orrer Gower street, Bedford-60°11 500.,a of Kenyon Stevens Parker, Esq., of Lincoln's -inn' °. - ire, On the ale 12th inst., at im 'nitn Hall, Camlnidgesh On the 14th inst., in Grevil!e- . F ' lace , lady of Charle3 Brooke Hun P t i , Es ° ol of a son, stil-born' ErS' Nathaniel 'Roper, of a daughter. Kilburn priory' i\t,i. O lt i t i ita t 1 1: MARRISD. _ tt, jun., of 'nail, to Mar -oun cst daughter of Vat. ler, eldest son of Thomas Butler, Esq., of Bury Lodger' t Colon.eol Ara- On Maiditone,}kArr..l: hcah, near Najd the 11th oifnsitt-Lartll(alinrnibraleidliona,m.Lesi.eutenant- Lel On the I Ith inst., at Inverleish-row, Edinburgh, Car_t„4,ll;est F. Porter, of the Madras Cavalry to Alai ianne , daughter of Alexander Ross, Esq.;late of the Bogs Service. a daughter. DIED• E a st On the Bth of January last, at Denary, near 51a,avirra.5'iteid• ,in:- ( lie s, _ the Rev. John Reid, A. 31., second:son ol 1:- , ' 1., Peckham Rye. Surrey, (Ted 34• A hal l ; Oa the 10th inst., - the Itvallenry._Plindey M.'" C and cellor of the diocese of Chichester, Vicar of 'Cuckfield, nearly 40 yews Vicar of St. Leonard, Shoreditch, L°°don• of On the 1 lth inst., at Edinburgh, Robert Brcomland, rrar Dumfries, and formerly of Kingston, -1/1-0119 On the Ilih inst., at Whitehall, Aliss Maria Stead 131,sre. '-- daughter of P. I3ickvell, Esq., of is v 'Taylor, ..ssi:tics. YOU 6' Printed and Published by MURDO _ n a Jo No. 112, Strand, at The Sun Office, O . 112, the county of iidtue„x._T„esday- march-7-6:: or lie only 1110: fh e p abi the he l4 few ] L h 11/ N, cab da i 1. ( At A4at 4 at 11 tot