The Sun. — London, England, 1841-01-27 00:00:00

EVENING EDI .1710 - ''',,, House what he considered to be the proper pacific policy whicu ought to have been pursued. It seemed to be the opinion cf the Hon. Member that the preservation of the peace of Europe would be best attained by this country interfering as little as possible, except upon very special occasions. Now he must differ from him. Ho could not conceive that a country like th,s, with so many possessions in different quarters of the globe, connected as it was with all the Powers of Europe so in terested in maintaining the balance of power, and pre * rving the peace of Europe, could maintain that balance of power and preserve that peace without continually in tetttring in affairs which might arise calculated to destroy the; balance of power and to prevent the preservation of T e eace.—( Cheers.) If they appealed to authority on this subject, he would look to the course which had been pur sued by the most pacific Minister that ever guided the des tinies of this country, he meant Sir Robert Walpole. So far from adopting the line of policy laid down by the Hun. Gentlemen that great man was constantly, and every wb ere, interfering with his counsel and with his advice, throwing the weight of England alternately into the erre scale or the other, as the preservation of the balav ee of power might require; and not only did he ask , : a part in negotiations, but he interfered with the de et, insomuch, that in one Session he demanded a supply for the equipment of a fleet of thirty sail, and all this for the purpose of maintaining the peace of Europe : and who d ur i ng t h e w h o l e period of his power never en gaged this country in war except upon one occasion, when he suffered his own better judgment to be over-ruled by the judgment of others. With regard to the particular case now under their consideration, he doubted whether the policy recommended by the Hon. Member wa3 the one most likely to conduce to the preservation of peace. He understood the Hon. Member to say that in his view there was no necessity whatever for interfering between the Porte and Mehemet Ali, but that in case Russia should advance into Turkey and establish herself at Constantino ple, that their own fleet and own army should be put in motion, and we should declare to Russia that the integrity and independence of the Ottoman empire must be pre served. But let them suppose a case—let them suppose that Turkey should say to England, here is a rebellious Pacha who i 3 interfering with and undermining my autho rity, and I feel it impossible to maintain my independence against him without your assistance, and that England should decline to interfere, or to express an opinion on that subject. Suppose, then, that Turkey should say ago must then look to Russia and to Russia alone for assistance, and Russia were to take Tur'atey under her own exclusive protection—(Cheers)— er.d Russia yieldieg to the temptation, which it would be -almost impossible far a Power possessed of her vast armies to r e sist, should take the opportunity of gratifying that an . bition which must necessarily arise in her in consequence of our inertness—(Cheers)—and her ambition would be increased just in proportion to your want of energy and vigour. Would it be sufficient that you should say no ? Would she retreat at your summoning when her armies had been ordered into the positions which she had assigned to them, and when she was proceeding to execute those intentions which perhaps she might have already declared in the face of Europe ? Would not the peace of Europe bo in greater danger in this latter case from the pacific line of policy advocated by the lion. Gentleman, than from the course which her Majesty's Government had adopted?—(Cheers.) Ile would admit to the lion. Gen tleman that the interference of this country was not called for in every case of a difference between the head of the Ottoman empire and one of his rebellious Pachas ; that if the Pacha of Albania, or any other Pacha should be dis obedient arid rebellious to the sultan, or that if the Sultan should find that his power in Syria was not sufficiently strong to put down any mountaineers who might be inclined to disobey him, that that would be no eerie calling for our interference. The fault of the argument of the Hon. Member was, that he considered these cases to be all alike —that he made no distinction—that he considered it ne cessary to lay down a mathematical rule to regulate all C tars of interference between the Sultan and his vassals —that we were bound either never to interfere at all or to interfere in every case that might arise. But he utterly denied that it was possible to lay down any rule with such exactness. Human affairs were not of such a nature as to admit of the application of such invariable rules.—( Cheers.) They must judge of the circumstances of each case as it might arise, whether those circumstances were likely to interfere with the preservation of the peace of Europe. Now what was the case with regard to Turkey ? A war had been ended by the Treaty of Ad rianople, following other wars, the result of which had been greatly to weaken Turkey. The Sultan, whose in• dependence we had always professed our intention rigidly to maintain, constantly urged on the English Ambas sador the danger to which he was exposed from the Egyptian Peelle ; and he certainly said that it was tn.cessary for hirn to have the protection of England, if England would give it to him, or the protection of Russia if Russia were ready to give it to him against the encroachments of his rebellious vassal, who was every day endangering his safety and independence. A conflict at length took place between the troops of the Pacha and these of his Sovereign, the result of which threatened still snore deeply the Turkish Empire. The Sultan, after the defeat at Neeib, certainly asked the as astence of this county against the Paella. It was not giver. to him for reasons which his Nuble Friend had at that time explained to the Hcuse. The u#sult had been that Russia had afforded to Turkey the assistance, and Russia had, as he thought, most imprudently, but certainly not unnaturally, considering her position, secured cer tain peculiar advantages to herself by the Treaty of •thiltiar Skolessi —(Cries of " Hear.") He thought Russia had acted imprudently, because, without securing t r herself any substantial increase of power, Russia had given warning to Europe that if that Treaty should be loilOued by uher acts, the result would be to establish the exclusive protectorate of Russia over Turkey. Such were the views which the Government of this country had taken of that Treaty, and official representations had been made to Russia that the Treaty of Unkiar Skelessi would not bo recognised by this country as an European Treaty, that it would not be considered as part of the public law of Europe, and that this country should consider itself at liberty to act as if no such Treaty had ever existed. ( Hear.) The same course had been pursued by the Go vernment of France. He did not know what course the Government of Austria had pursued, but there could bo no doubt but that the Treaty of Unkiar Skclessi must be displeasing to that Government, whose great object was the maintenance of the integrity of the Ottoman empire. It was sot a safe condition for Russia ; the truce between the Sultan and Mehemet Ali remained for some time un• broken ; but still there were dangers, and it could not be said that the peace of Europe was safe so long as this state of things continued. Such was the state of affairs, when Mahmoud died ; his successor was very young, and not capable of exhibiting and assuming the same vigour which the late Sultan had exhibited. The empire was threatened with imminent dangers. The relative posi tion of Mehemet Ali and the Turkish empire had been so clearly laid down, and the reason which had influenced the conduct of the Government in the negotiations between Mehemet Ali and the Sultan had been so clearly stated in his Noble Friend's note of the 31st of August, that he would refer the House to that note. Not only was Mehe met An in possession of Egypt and Syria, but he had au immense disposable army and a naval force far beyond what he ought to have, or what the resources of his coun try could maintain. His army occupied a position threaten ing Constantinople on one side, and Bagdad on the other. He was menacing the Sultan. He would not state from the note of his Noble Friend what had been the conduct pursued by Mehemet Ali, but he would appeal to the authority of a French Minister, one of the Ministry of the 12th of May as it was called, which was at that period in power in France, and was supposed to be favourable to the cause of Mehemet Ali— he would sppeal to the authority of M. Passy. The statement of M. Patsy to the French Chamber was, tha propositions had been made and had been rejected. Me hemet Ali not only demanded that he should keep posses• lion of all which ho had then acquired, but he demanded the displacement of the Grand Vizier. He also addressed letters to the other Paellas of the empire, urging them to declare their independence of the Sultan, while at the same time he maintained a correspondence in Constanti nople itself. M. Passy said that there were other facts relating to Mehemet Ali, to which he would not further allude in his present humiliating position. Such was the statement of the French Minister, from which it appeared that Mehemet Ali not only from his position was threaten ing the Sultan, not only excited all the other Pachas to rebellion, but that he maintained most dangerous corre_ spondences in Constantinople itself, so as to acquire a power in the heart of the Government. But the Honour. able Geatleman might say that that was no con cern of ours, that Mehemet Ali might be as good a Sovereign as the Sultan.—(" Hear, hear," from Sir Wil liam Molesworth.) The lion. Member for Leeds seemed to be of that opinion, hut there was one little cireumltance which appeared to have escaped his consideration alto gether. The. Emperor of Russia might- take no such views of the nature of his treaties'with the Sultan. The Emperor of Austria might be of the same opinion—those Powers might say, werare not going to abandon our treaties with the Sultan—it is our interest, as well as our duty, to maintain them, and Constantinople, occupied by the troops of Russia or Austria, would become the arena of a conflict of which no man could foresee the event. It was impossible for Great Brit* to look on and be forgetful of all her declarations in favour of the integrity and inde pendence of the Ottoman empire, or, if she could be so forgetful of her obligations, and so unmindful of her duty, lest she should be involved in war, he thought he had proved, that so far from war being avoided, war would be a necessary consequence of pursuing that course of pacific policy which had been recommended by the Hon. Member for London. Neither England nor the ether powers of Europe could omit taking part with regard to this question. The Am bassadors of the Great Powers declared at Constantinople that it wag the wish of the Sovereigns whom they repre sented that the Sultan sho u ld not conclude a separate and abrupt arrangement with Mehemet Ali, but that he should wait the effect of the interest they took in his be half. The Noble Lord then read a letter, dated the 21st September, 1839, from the Foreign Minister in France to the Governor of Austria, and which had been quoted in the late debate in the Chamber of Deputies, to show that at that time the Government of France thought as the Government of England did ; that the first object to be considered was the general preservation of the Turkish empire. About the same time that that communication was made by France to Austria, the present Russian Anibassador, Baron de Brunow, arrived in this country with propositions on the same subject, which were communicated to the French Ambassador, who esonveyed it to France, and an answer was made by France, which had also been quoted in the discussions in the French Chamber. Ile must say the sonduct of the Emperor of Russia throughout had been that of ono most sincerely desirous to co-operate with the other Powers of Europe in establishing peace in the Levant. The Noble Lord then observed that if a war had justified them in demanding of the House, and advising the Sovereign, to increase the army and navy to an enormous extent, they would not have hesitated in doing so. He agreed with the Hon. Member for London, that it was a misfortune there should be an estrangement with France, but the blame rested upon the Government of Franco in the conduct it pursued at the time the Treaty of July was commenced.—( Hear.) The Noble Lord then read several extracts from the cor respondence of M. Guizat to the Minister of Foreign Affairs, showing the French Government were aware of the nature of the negotiations that were pending relative to Syria, and proceeded. His Noble Friend informed the French Ambassador, on the 17th of July, of the conclu sion of the Convention, and vet the Government of France said they were taken by surprise. He could not say he thought there was any justice in this complaint. He lamented the estrangement and irritation which arose in Franoe. He believed France to be an enlightened, a gal lent nation—one that had done much for the civilization of Europe and the world—and he could not speak of such a nation without sincere esteem.— (Cheers• ) Nor could he wonder when the Government of France appealed to their feelings of honour and interest , th at it p roduced c d feelings of irritation and estrangement, because the people could not follow the train of nego tiation, but he did peace c ha o d ff been o t w i e wonder so r o c ot recklessuhna t t r countries. .h a e s This oius Government to naturallyendanger exf excited ited til:n e f r e a e p l c i e n e gs of alarm and insecurity, and gave it to he understood there were in England feelings of hostilit y and estrangement which never had existe d.—( Cheers. ) His Noble Friend had stated at the end of last Session, in reply to the lion. Member for Kilkenny , t hat this Treat y was not intended against France. He believe d such was the rule the y had laid down for themselves, and he could not conceive what grounds there were for a contrary statement. He thought the dignity of France had been lowered by the course their Government had pursued.—(Cheers.) What was the natural course to adopt in such a case ? Why, to enter into an arrangement and to say to the Pacha, Such is the arrange ment, and you must accept it. Therefore in the present transaction, he maintained that it was not the conduct of England which led to the separation which he lamented, but it was the unfortunate conduct of the French Government in transferring to Mehemet Ali that attachment they had always protested towards the Sultan. With respect to the signing of the Treaty, he knew it had been said that a proposition would again be made to Mehemet Ali. Up to July they had ne gotiated in vain. The people of Syria had risen against Mehemet Ali. The Government of England knew that the opinion of the French Government was decidedly adverse to them, and if they had asked them to sign the treaties it would have led to proposals to negotiate, and thus the whole of the year 1840 would have been lost. When he read the exposition given by the French Minister of Foreign Affairs, he could not doubt that if the consent of the French Government had been asked to those terms there would have been some cavil about the words of that Treaty, or about the entry of the English fleet into the Dardanelles. The peace of Europe would have been still further endangered, and the necurity of that great object further off than ever. He would not make any remark with respect to what had happened since the conclusion of the Treaty. His Noble Friends, who bad moved and seconded the Address, had expressed their sense of the valour of the navy of this coun try, and all that had been engaged in this expedition, especially of those who had been engaged at Acre, in those statements he fully concurred, and he trusted that the enterprise which had been shown would have the effect of putting an end to those unfounded remarks. lie ventured to say, when the inefficiency of the navy was stated to the House that it was difficult in times of peace to prove that ships and men were worthy of the name of the British navy, but he would venture to predict that if au occasion arose they would maintain the glory of their country. He had no doubt but that the achievements in the East had been attended with danger, but he knew the course that had been adopted was that least likely to be attended with danger, and for his own part he saw no course that was likely to lead to so satisfactory a result. He thought they might hope it would release the Sultan from the dread of a vassal, and give stability to his country and throne. If this were the result of the course adopted by the Govern ment, he thought the people would have no cause to corn. plait , of those in whose hands the Government had been placed.—( Hear.) Before he concluded what he had to say with respect to their foreign affairs, he would state to the House that he saw in the course of the discussion in the French Chambers the name of a noble and honoured friend of his, lately deceased, had been mentioned. He felt that he could not state precisely what his Noble Friend's views were on this subject, but this he must say that all his motives were connected with the general peace of the world, and that he never departed from them during the period of his life.—( Hear, hear, hear.) He would say further that whatever motives actuated him —whatever policy he supported, he did so with a high sense of honour and unflinching integrity. lie (Lord John Russell) could, however, state, that he inherited the opinions as well as the name of Fox, and was the valued friend of a distinguished character of the day who fol lowed and represented the great principle% entertained and advocated by Mr. Fox. The Hon. Member for Lon don had, in the latter part of his speech. hoped if there were to be no improvement at home—if finality prevailed —we might be able to maintain peace in our provinces. With regard to the general domestic policy, that Hon. Gentleman was entirely mistaken. The Government were not in any sense enemies—on the contrary, with re gard to judicial affairs, matters of trade, and other do mestic matters, they were of opinion that a gradual im provement might and ought to be made ; these were the principles upon which they wished to a: and. But they were not willing to confound abuses with institutions— they would not defend abuses as institutions ; and, on the other hand, they would not destroy institutions as abuses. He wished to maintain an Established Church, an Here ditary Peerage, and Hereditary Monarchy, and if any proposition were made to destroy any of them, he would find it his duty to oppose it with all the power of the Goverment, thinking, as he did, that they would lead to convulsion, and would postpone, if not destroy, all chance of oar obtaining any salutary improvement. He wished to see improvements made in all ways, and he would gladly co.operate in car rying them into effect. Other occasions would offer for him to explain himself more at large ; he would therefore conclude by saying that the Government were perfectly willing to take upon themselves all the responsibility which attached to all they had done, and while they re mained Ministers they would maintain those principles which they thought were for the benefit of the country.— ( Loud cheers.) Mr. MILN ES then rose, but was not heard for some time in consequence of the noise occasioned by Members leaving the House. Ile regretted that there was so much apathy in this country on foreign affairs, and he was glad that the Noble Lord had avowed the responsibility of the Government for their acts; he would also hold them re sponsible for their omissions. He did not think the Noble Lord had answered the lion. Member for London in a satisfactory manner. Ile wished to impress on the House that the intervention which had taken place in consequence of the Treaty of July was a different thing from that moral support which was given to the Ottoman empire by the gallant fleet of the Five Powers. He thought there was a painful omission in the Speech of her Ma jesty, for he agreed that the very peculiar circumstances in which our foreign relations now stood, not only autho rised, but absolutely demanded some expressions of regret at the rupture that had taken p'ace between this country and France. That expression of regret not having taken place, he felt bound to protest against the assumption that the intention of the Treaty of July, namely the inte grity and independence of the Ottoman empire, had been secured. He believed the angry feeling the French na tion had attributed to us did not exist, and he hoped the Noble Lord would state so this evening. England had no immediate interest in this question. lie did not accuse the intentions of her Majesty's Ministers, but he did accuse them of shortsightedness, of ignorance of the character of the French people and of French history.-- ( Hear, hear.) Any person who had paid attention to French history would know that the French had al ways been engaged in active hostility or co-operation with other Powers, and that they would keenly feel anything which in the least approximated to a alight on their alli ance. He did not wish to apologise for the over-sensitive ness of the French people, but it should have been taken into consideration before Ministers had risked the awful contingency of a rupture with that nation. The Noble Lord had asked them whether if England had been placed in the position of France, she would have adopted the same course which France had taken. He knew the apathy of the English people with respect to foreign affairs, and he believed it would require great excitement to arouse them ; but if Ft-mace and Russia had bound themselves together to protect the East he believed this country would have risen to oppose it.—(Hear, hear.) The present state of the country was greatly to be deplored ; it was in a state of armed peace, and he was much afraid that state of armed peace would continue. In conclu sion, he called upon her Majesty's Government most anxiously to consider the state of affairs between this coun tryltoe Pranceuirl d po b w e e r ub oe to c I em h a heal a e the faorrt oo tuh a ne n d d c ot F ah r l ei a ty n i o c hn e a , do a fi n n fi d Ei cu t o treod d p o e; a f l t o i h r i until e i r n e w t England. Mr. HUME then rose to address the House. If he had net paid particular attention to this question he should have rested his opposition to the policy of her Majesty's Ministers on the speech of the H on . M em b er for London • but having brought this subject bef ore th e H ouse last year, he felt bound to call their attention t o th e d angerous situa tion in which the Government had placed the country. Ile complained of the course which the Noble Lord had pursued. He had not been candid with the House, and had not laid before the House the negociations that were going on, fearful, no doubt, that the House would have interfered and have stopped that mad career which had placed them in their present unfortunate situat:on. The House bad always been denied information. The treaty was concluded in July, and the House did not separate till August ; yet the Noble Lord thought proper to withhold every 6 paper on the subject. It the necessary information had been laid before the House tho Noble Lord would not have had a majority in the Cabinet in favour of his views. Th n ey fa h c a t d heard a everybody g great dealwt knew of e ww w , • ) h a a t passed i t passed in the e t c Cabinet —i —(A laugh.) The channels of the Government commu nicate,l it to the public. If the Whig papers did not the Tory papers did ; so that between the two th e re was no difficulty in knowing what the opinions . of her Majesty 'a Ministers were. — ( Lou d lau g htei.) It was well known that one nobleman, whose loss the country deeply deplored, had been decidedly opposed to the policy which had been pursued by the Government, and he ( Mr. Hume) believed that vexation at the course affa.rs were taken, had hastened that nobleman's decease. The Commons House of Parliament had been treated with great disrespect by the Government, and he be lieved that a state of alienation had been created between France and England, whieh would be productive of moat disastrous consequences to the welfare of this country, and u r onlyp e. perh a p s at no distant period disturb the peace o f Eokie consid ere d th e p o licy o f th e G o vernment, not bad, as regarded the commerce of the country, but wicked as regarded the desolation and ruin which had been perpetrated upon an unoffending province. The Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies bad declared that he would assert the independence of the Sultan, and they had been told by the organs of the Government that it was necessary to put down the grinding tyranny of Mehemet All . . He was n a t go i ng to apologize for Mehemet Ales conduct, but he would ask the Noble Lord by whom had the independence of the Ottoman em pire been threatened ? He denied that it had been threatened by Mehemet Ali. The real fact was this, that the Sultan, although under terms of treaty of peace with 'Mehemet Ali, in 1830. with the evident intention of overwhelming Mehemet Ali, without notice, and con trary to the acknowleged pledge he had given, marched a large force into Syria, aid attacked the villages, and part of the army of Ibrahim Pacha. He endeavoured to raise the people against Ibrahim Pacha, but Ibrahim Pacha almost anihilated his army. He stated this as a proof that if Mehemet Ali had any intentions of destroying the Otto man empire, or of going to Constantinople, h e wou ld h ave done it when he was flushed with victory after the battle of Nezib, and two days after the death of the Sultan Mahmond. At that very instant, too, the Turkish fleet deserted. Again, he would ask, what right had Russia to interfere with the affairs of Syria? Nicholas might just as well go to Ireland and say that he would settle the repeal question, and that the Government of England had nothing to do with it. Ile therefore contended that the priciple on which Russia and this country interfered with Syria, was most inischeivous, and that the Noble Lord had failed to make out a ease. The Noble Lord had not given an answer to the lion. Member for London. lie had not stated why or upon what ground this country had interfered. Did any human being believe that Nicho las had any disposition to maintain the integrity of the Ottoman Empire? If the British Government had been anxious to secure peace without any of the evils that had arisen, they had only to have allowed the Sultan and Me. hemet Ali to make such terms as they might have thought proper. The last wish of the Sultan was that his son would make peace wit - h Mehemet Al No, no !" from Lord Brahazon.) The Noble Lord might say " No, no," but he (Mr. II.) had heard that such was the fact. The Divan immediately applied itself to the subject, and sent a messenger to Alexandria, and received a favourable an swer. But there was a little difference with respect to Acre, which British influence might have adjusted. But instead of that, this country was now to be subjected to increased taxation, in consequence of the violation of the sacred principle of non-intervention. This was the subject of his heavy complaint against the Ministers He thought be could show that there was no ground far charging Mehemet Ali with treasonable de siges. He would refer to the character given of him by the Noble Secretary for Foreign Affairs. With great sorrow and regret he (Mr. Hume) saw the public organs of the Noble Lord—( A laugh)—he knew that the columns of tho Meriting Chronicle were open to the Noble Lord— ( Laughter)—at least so the public said—( A laugh)— these columns were quite open to receive all the trash that was sent to them, and goodness knew that plenty of it came.—(Laughter.) It was said that the Whig Minis ters were justified in rescuing Syria from the tyranny of .Mehemet Ali, but the Ministers intended to relieve only one-half of Syria from that grinding tyranny. He had the Noble Lord's proposition to that effect, in his own despatch, in which doubt was expressed whether Acre should be thrown in or not. There never was a more vascillating policy than the Noble Lord's. Indeed he could not say he knew what that policy was. The Speech said they were on the eve of completing their ob jects, but he did not know what those objects were. The Noble' Lord spoke of the grinding tyranny of Mehemet Ali, and he (Mr. Hume) would not deny that there had been oppression, that the conscription was odious, and that money was raised by all possible means ; but he asked was there no oppression under the Ottoman rule, or why was the Noble Lord willing to leave all Egypt and part of Syria under the grinding tyranny of Mehemet ? The Noble Lord (Brahazon) said that the Government of the Pacha was spreading riot and anarchy throughout Syria, forgetting that the English Government was arying its hand at the same game, that the Noble Secretary for Foreign Affairs had his spies spreading disaffection throughout Syria. Mr. Wood, the agent of Lord Ponsonby, distributed arms and money amongst the people, and spread insurrection to afford a pretence for our interfe rence. One of the reasons given for interference was that the Pacha threatened to declare himself independent, but it was evident, from the correspondence of the British Consul (Colonel Campbell) with Lord Palmerston, in 1838, that whatever intentions the Pacha might have en tertained to- that effect was reasoned out of him by the British and French Consuls. The lion. Member then read from a despatch of Lord Palmerston a high eulogy upon the Pacha, his sense of justice, and his success in in troducing peace and order and respect for property in the provinces subject to his rule. He (Mr. H.) asked had not the Noble Lnrd substituted in Syria anarchy and in security for life and property, instead of the state of things which he eulogized in that dispatch ? He (Mr. H.) knew a person whose camel died in the Desert on the road to Suez, and he was obliged to leave his goods and trunks unguarded for several days, but on his return he found all were perfectly safe. lie asked would so much respect for property be experienced on the road to Brent ford ? Fifty thousand stand of arms had been placed in the hands of the Druses, and he asked how was the Sul tan, under such circumstances, to maintain his autho rity ? Were we to keep up an army in Syria, and a fleet of twenty-two ships? The purposes of Russia could not be more effectually promoted than by the civil war in those parts of the Turkish dominions, at the same time that a rupture subsisted between this country and France. The proposition of the Pacha that he and the Porte should maintain an army of 50,000 men, to be prepared against the common enemy was wise and for the good of the Ottoman empire, and, if attended to, would have prevented the occurrences which had since taken place, and by which all Europe had been compelled to arm, at an expense of forty or fifty millions, in which, no doubt, England would have taken part. He regretted that there was not one word of conciliation offered towards France in the Speech. He was sorry to say that every thing that was bona fide connected with the real interests of the country had been neglected. There was no notice taken in the speech of that great and important question education, there was no intimation of any intention on the part of her Majesty's Government to follow nut the education of the people, which was so much required and for which the Noble Lord had got so much credit last year ; no notice was taken with reference to the state of commercial improvements, of which the country stood so much in need ; in fact there was such an indifference shown to the real interests of the country as he had never before witnessed in a Speech from the Throne. He considered the Speech as far as it went most objectionable, as it took credit for an act that was a disgrace to any Government, he alluded to the convention entered into between the Powers of Europe and this country to circumscribe the power of Mehemet Ali. On the whole, he felt bound to protest against the Speech, because it did not state what it ought to have done—it did not call the attention of the House to the condition of the people, or to home affairs ; the foreign policy, it appeared, occupied more the attention of the Government than the home did, the latter of which was so necessary to be attended to for the benefit of the country. He trusted, in conclusion, that her Majesty's Government would apply itself to remedy the evils under which the country laboured, and endeavour to put an end to them ere it was too late. He would now read to the House the amendment he proposed to the Address, whether or not he should take the sense of the House upon it he would not then say, but, at any rate he wished it to be put upon the Journals, as, probably, if he took the sense of the House upon it, he should stand alone. Mr. WARBURI'ON here intimated to the Hon. Member that he would second the amendment. Mr. HUM E said that such being the case, he would submit his amendment to the consideration of the House. The Hon. Member then read his amendment which he proposed should be inserted after the first paragraph. It was to the following effect :—Thanking her Majesty for calling them together, but regretting that her Majesty had not called their attention specially to the finances of the country, and the condition of the working classes; stating that they regarded war as destructive to a civilized com munity, and that they could not but view with apprehen sion any interruption of the peace which had been so hap pily enjoyed for so great a number of years. Stating that they viewed with special uneasiness the state of the country with respect to France, and that they regarded with distrust the Convention formed between this country, Austria, Russia, and Prussia. Humbly stating to her Majesty that while they admitted her prerogative to declare war, they considered it their duty to examine the exercise of that prerogative ; and they therefore humbly requested her Majesty to command her Ministers to lay before that House the grounds on which tkey had adopted their policy with respect to Egypt. To express to her Majesty their surprise that her Majesty's advisers should have recommended increased establishments, considering the present state of the country, and regretting that her Majesty had not directed their attention to the increased expenditure of the country, and the distress and discontent that existed in it. This he (Mr. Hume) considered to be a fit and proper Address to present to her Majesty in aniwer to the Speech, and be should therefore move it as an amendment to the one proposed by the Noble Lord.' Mr. WA RBURToN seconded the amendment. Sir ROBERT PE EL then rose, and addressed the House as follows—Sir, there is one subject of such over powering importance connected with the peace of Europe and the general interest of mankind, and that so com pletely casts into the shade any other topic, however portant,lhat it is hardly necessary to notice the omissions made in the Speech, or the language in which those topics are introduced into the Speech. It is an old saying, that speeches from the Throne were always intended to be as unintelligible as possible,-and I certainly must say, with respect to the Speech delivcred by her Majesty this day, I never recollect a Speech to which the appellation of being unintelligible could be better applied. It says as little as possible upon all the leading questions that have agitated the country, and,looking at it as the Speech of her Majesty's Ministers, it might justly be said of it that it had been given to man for the purpose of concealing his thoughts. Sir, I was amused by the speeches of the mover and seconder of the Address, for they did find it so utterly impossible to eke out their speeches to a becoming decorous length, that they found it was absolutely incumbent upon them, at the risk of of fending the Government, to suggest all those topics that might have been introduced into the Speech ; namely, the state of Canada, the Boundary question, the state of the country at home, the state of Ireland, the state of the war on the north-west frontier, and so on. All these topics were introduced by the mover and seconder, with reflections on her Majesty's Government for not having introduced that which they would have introduced, had they had to prepare the Speech.—(Laughter.) It was evident that the mover and seconder were in possession of information which had not reached her Majesty's Minis ters—( Laughter)—for in talking of China one of the gentlemen had indulged in a tone of triumph, which I think those who prepared the Speech did not consider themselves entitled to indulge in. It was clear that the':, edict of the Emperor of China, of which so much had. been said, was riot genuine, if the statements of one of the Honourable Members wets to have any weight attached to it. With respect to the Address itself, no man, I think, can refuse to assent to the cautious manner in which it has been drawn up.—( Hear, hear.) With re spect to the military movements that have taken place, I cannot help f ee li n g great regret that, after the lapse of 25 years of peace, it should become necessary again to resort to war, I had hoped that new interests TB 12, SIT N. LONDON% EDNESD AT, JAN tYA S. l 1170 had arisen which would have had the effect of putting an ' end to any necessity again to resort to it. With respect to France in alliance or in opposition, I never held but one opinion. I think a cordial good understanding between England and France essential to the p( ace and welfare of Europe. I do not mean to say that individual elliauce of an exclusive nature between this country and France, which would give offence to the other Powers of Europe, is necessar:' ; I am not prepared to say that such an alliance would be beneficial; but I consider that the maintenance of cordial good will between this country and France is essential and necessary to the interest of Europe. I cannot entertain a doubt that the French nation have a false conception of the people of England ; I believe there is no wish on the part of the great community of England, which has been called the enemy of France—l do not be lieve there is the slightest wish on the part of the people of England that the power of France should be curtailed. And I believe that there would be no feelings of gladness on the part of the people of England at any thing that would deteriorate the interests of the people of France. At the same time, with that feeling strongly in my mind, I am not prepared to say that the policy of attempt ing the settlement of the Eastern Question was necessary. I can sec complications arising from the continuance of the Syrian question, in which ally attempts at adjustment might have involved this country in war. It is true that the Turkish Empire has exhibited weakness, but still it existed, and every effort, in my opinion, should be made to prevent that conflict which would arise upon the dissolu tion of the Turkish Empire. It is clear that the condition of the Pacha had become inconsistent with the stability of the Turkish Empire. Looking at Russia, I have thought, and always have thought, that her natural position rendered her a subject of jealousy and suspicion, but I think the course that Russia has pursued ought to exempt her from some of the observations which have been made by the Honourable Member for Kilkenny. That Hon. Gentle man had thought that what had taken place on the north-west frontier of England was attributable to Russia. It would be no easy matter for us to make the evacuation of Constantinople by Russia one of the conditions of peace with that country. I shall, therefore, suspend al together my opinion upon the policy of the intervention, until I receive that full explanation from her Majesty's Government, which I presume they are prepared to give. They may be enabled to show that the consequences of England's forbearance would have been the immediate intervention of Russia, or of Russia, Prussia, and Austria; they may possibly remind us that that event which did occur in the year 1833 would have occurred again in 1810. The Porte applied to us in 1833 to protect her against this very Pacha ; we refused, and what was the conse quence ?—an application to Russia. Russia did step in, did protect the Porte, and obtained the signature of a treaty against which we were the first to protest. We were obliged to tell Russia, " We will not con , cider that treaty as part of the law of Europe." We were driven almost to declare war in 1833 on account of that very treaty ; and seeing that the Porte was about to be spoiled, without a show of justice, by one of its own sub jects, who for that purpose abused the authority with which he had been entrusted, I do believe that Russia, I do believe that Austria, would have felt the necessity of intervention ; that they would again have been led to the same course which had been taken in 1833; and depend upon it that Russia cannot twice protect Turkey, and twice save her from annihilation within a period of seven years, and be placed in any other relation to her than that of master ; and therefore, Sir, though I am not prepared to concur in any address to the Throne approving of this policy, and would rather suspend my judgment, and should not be acting an honest part if I concurred in the Address in the absence of in formation implying censure on those who were parties to the Treaty of July,-.4 say, therefore, Sir, that I am pre pared to admit the case, first that intervention was neces sary—advisable, perhaps, if you could have the co-opera tion of France —nay, necessary, perhaps, even if the as sistance of France were ultimately positively refused. But then I must say this, that in proportion as the assistance of France was withheld—in proportion as her cordial co operation and concurrence were wanting, and in proportion as the loss of that co-operation and assistance greatly decreased the chances of success, you ought to have shown, and I trust you hare shown, in the whole of these proceedings the utmost consideration for the not unnatural feelings with which France might view the revival of a former alliance. It is in vain to say that the principles of this alliance are diffe rent from those of 1815. I am perfectly ready to admit that ; but sometimes the coincidence of facts and circum stances is almost as unfortunate as the coincidence of prin ciples. Nothing can be more dissimilar than the princi ple of this Quadruple Treaty and the principle of that Treaty which led to the occupation of Paris in 1814 ; but it should be remembered that France is a country which has always, and justly, set the highest value upon its military glory. I should be sorry to think that the people of that country view the events of 1814 and 1815 with any feeling of bitterness. They must view with regret the repulses to which they were subject; but I am sure no impartial man, reading the his tories of the campaigns of 1814 and 1815, can fairly con template those campaigns, though unfortunate in the re sult to France, with any other feeling than that of admi ration for the skill of the leader, and the valour of the army of France. But at the same time the events are too recent, the reverse too great, that France should not be exceedingly jealous of the nations to whom she was op posed. I entreat you, my Lord (addressing Lord Palmer ston) to take care that you do not excite and aggravate those jealousies; I do think that there is some danger of this. I attach the utmost importance to such a considera tion.—( Hear.) I hope the Noble Lord will not taunt me by saying, " You do not find fault with the great object which we contemplate, but you select some minor point for the subject of your ic marks." I do attach the utmost importance to this point. If it were necessary for you to act without France, I would exhaust every means of convincing France that you came to that resolution with the utmost reluctance, and would have left, as I hope they have been left, distinctly upon record, the grounds upon which you felt bound to act without the concurrence of France. I trust you will be able to show that you exhausted every means of con ciliating the good feelings of that nation.—( Hear, hear.) Now, 1 tell the Noble Lord that there is one point which, in reading the French debates, struck me very forcibly, in order that I may make the matter more clear. I will quote exactly what passed in the Chamber of Deputies, and I must say that it does carry internal evidence that both the parties who were concerned in the discussion were speaking in perfect good faith, and describing the feelings which they really entertained. M. Guizot was making a speech, and he was stating he gave some general warning to the French Government that negotiations were pending which would possibly lead to the conclusion of the Treaty be tween the Powers, when he was interrupted by M. Thiers in this manner:—" M. Thiers (interrupting M. Guizot) will prove to M. Guizot that he told me on the 14th of July that we have still plenty of time be fore us, and that there was nettling to render urgency necessary." " M. Guizot—lt is true." " M. Thiers—The 6th, 9th, and 14th July, you wrote me as follows The question is in:agitation, and at a crisis, but nothing as yet decided.' This is what you wrote to me; all your letters contain the supposition that before signing any Treaty a proposition would be made to France." Now (continued the Right Hon. Baronet) what says the accused ? " M. Guizot—That is true, I believe. All the world knows that France was kept in the dark as to what was going on ; the Treaty was concluded apart from us, and it was a proceeding against which we had a right to complain." Now, I do not deny that perhaps from the general tenour of the language held that M. Guizot might have inferred that a treaty was about to be signed, but I must say, cousidering the character of the man, con sidering the friendly feelings expressed towards him by England, and considering the friendly feeling entertained by him to England, we cannot wonder when the Treaty of the 15th of July between those Powers who were parties to the Treaties of 1814 and 1815, were signed, and it was kept from the Ambassador and representative of France that such a treaty was on the point of being signed, I must say I am not surprised that there were some feelings of indignation.—( Hear, hear.) Considering all circumstances, I think it would have been best to have apprised M. Guizot of what was intended, and to have said to him, " Now, we tell you, in a friendly spi rit, that our first object is to unite with you ; but if you will not unite with us, we must proceed without you." It is quite clear from the letters that were written from the French Ambassador to the French Minister that nothing of the kind was done. On the 9th, 10111, and even up to the 14th of July, M. Guizot was placed in the humiliating condition of not being aware of the treaty which was about to be signed. The Noble Lord says that it would have been a greater ground of offence to France to com municate the intention, than it was to sign the Treaty without her concurrence. Why, no doubt there is a way of doing these things. If you had gone to France, and said " We are going to sign a treaty, and we are utterly indifferent whether you join us or not, we tell you, whether you agree or not, we shall sign it." Ilknow that would have been an offensive mode of proceeding, but if you had gone in a perfectly conciliatory spirit, and told France " this is going to be done, do not deceive your Go vernment by holding out any hopes of its interruption," I cannot help thinking that there would have been less offence in such a proceeding than in the one which was adopted, namely, the signature of the Treaty without communica tion. I am sure that in private life and in the intercourse of society generally, the principle for which I am con tending is most beneficially adopted. Now let me remind the Nuble Lord of what took place at Verona. In the Congress of Verona the position of England very much resembled that of France at the present time, and in that instance the course was pursued which I think ought to have been pursued with reference to France.—( Hear.) All I contend for is, that a less unkind course might have been adopted.—( Hear, hear.) Now I must enter my protest against Parliament not having the slightest intima tion, on the eve of a rupture with that Power, the alliance of which we all felt to be of such importance.—( Hear. hear.) This was an event that might affect the interests of th e wor ld. P arliament was s i tt i ng h ere on th e 15 t h July. The Nobl e L or d to ld us h e hoped for the co-opera tion of France, and quoted a speech of the King of France which l e ft us un d er that impression. H e a l so rea d a l e tt er from M. G u i zot to the like effect ; an d I must sa y, consi dering. the magnitude of the question, and that the Bri tish Parliament was then sitting, whatever may be your technical forms and ceremonies, not to have called in the assistance and advice of Parliament to prevent the se verance of the connection with France does appear to me to have been a slight upon deliberative assemblies, which may not have been intended, but which if drawn into precedent may tend greatly to undermine their powers.— ( Cheers.) The answer I know is, that the treaty was not ratified; hut recollect the peculiar condition of the ques • ti on — (Cheers)—Recollect the special and extraordinary powers set forth in these treaties. So anxious were they for their i mme di ate execution, that the part i es to t h em con sented they sho u ld b e put i nto i mme di ate exec ution with out being r a tifi e d .—( Hear, hear.) O r d ers were g i ven t o your navy and army with regard to these treaties, that if other me asures f a i le d t h ey s h ou ld car ry fire a n d sword into th e h eart o f Syr i a.— ( H ear . ) N ow before ratification, it is not uncommon to carry into effect the provisions of a treaty, but should this have been done when the practical execution of the Treaty might endanger the union with France ?—(Hear, hear.) Sir, as I have ' said before, there are many points in connexion with this subject on which, before I form a conclusive judgment, I must see the progress of the negotiations, and the founda tion of your alarm of Russia and other Powers. One thing I will say. Considering the position of M. Guizot when he consented to accept office, nothing should lave been dune to add to his difficulties; but I think the letter of the Noble Lord. of the 7th of November, might he found fault with fot its temper. I cannot help saying also, I share in the feelings of regret which have been ex pressed at the omission of the name of France in the Speoch.—( Hear, hear.) It is difficult to over estimate the force of sympathy. Could there have been any difficulty in taking the words used by the Noble Lord in the first instance, and expressing ►egret—main taining your own ground, making no c o nces s i on in point of argument—at the termination of an alliance so long continued ?—( Flear, hear.) In former speeches you have mentioned the existence of that alliance with exultation, as a security for the peace of the world, after the termina tion of it could there have been any difficulty, even if France were to blame, in expressing your regret at that circumstance ?—( Hear, hear. ) Remember, you take credit for the success that has attended your opera. tions. Could there have been any more becoming addi tion than time expression of your anticipation and hope that a speedy and cordial understanding would take place.— ( Hear, hear.) It might have been an argument directed against those who seize every opportunity of poisoning the public mind against us. Her Majesty's Speech says, " I have the satisfaction of receiving from Foreign Powers assurances of their friendly disposition, and earnest desire to maintain peace." Why, if France has conveyed to us the intimation of her friendly disposition, in what would it have been derogatory to your honour to have done so ? —and if France has expres;ed an earnest desire to maintain peace, what difficulty would there have been in adding an expression of your regret at its interruption. Again the Speech alludes to objects that are on the eve of ac complishment. What arc those objects? The great ob ject contemplated by this country was the maintenance of the integrity and independence of the Ottoman empire, and thereby "to give security to Europe." Why, if you are on the eve of accomplishing this great object, why take exception to the insertion of such a clause as this? Sir, I still hope that the clouds which hang over the poll tical horizon will pass away, and that the reasonable part of Europe will exercise such forbearance as shall prevent a recurrence to the dreadful calamity of war.—(Cheers.) What has war done I What a consumption it is of time and capital, uselessly and unprofitably—nay, not only so, if it were sunk to the bottom of the sea, there would be some limit to it, but you cannot wake these preparations fur war without reviving that fell spirit, and all those bad passions and animosities which belong to it ; and how shall these be suppressed ?—( Cheers.) Every shilling devoted to these prepatations is an additional tax and burden upon France, as well as upon us, withdraws so much capital, and promotes a spirit pregnant with the most obnoxious principles.—(Cheers.) I do hope that France will hear what is almost the unanimous voice of this [louse, and will henceforward disbelieve the false re ports which are originated to create animosity between the two nations.—(Hear, hear, hear.) I see several grounds for not being released from apprehension, that the peace of Europe will not be affected. I look to Syria. You are perhaps determined to lenit the power of the Pectin, and to confine him to Egypt ; hut remember t i's, while France remains in her insulated position, you will find, after the present temporary settle ment, a thousand questions arise you cannot satisfactorily settle without the co-operation of France. The relations between the Pacha and the Porte are still to be settled. These may be framed entirely destructive of his power ; but from the relations of Turkey, and the peculiar situa• tion of Turkey with respect to the Mediteraanean and the entrance to the Bosphorus, how important for our own ob jects to effect a general and amicable settlement, and that France should take part in it, not to extort from you a confession that you were wrong, but if possible, forgetting the past, to prevail on her to unite with you for mutual good. No man is more convinced then I am that you have no gua rantee for peace. I again say lam not prepared to con demn in the slightest degree many of your objects. Once begun you have no alternative but to persevere. But you say that your measures have been attended with signal success. Now, it appears to me that this is an opportunity in which you may make—not unreasonable concessions, for that might only encourage the war party in France— but let me advise you, because you are strong, because you are successful, because you have shown that years of peace have not abated the gallant spirit of your army and navy — now, I say, is the time to say to France, Enter into communion with the great Powers of Europe for ; sake of peace ; we are all of us animated by an earnest desire to admit you again into the great family ; we entreat you now to enter into our councils. I trust France would accede to this request, and I formed that hope on the opinions expressed by the present Prime Minister of France with respect to the Porte, to which I trust he still ad heres. The Right Honourable Baronet then read some extracts from a letter of Marshal Soult, dated July 17, 1839, and addressed to Baron Bourgeney, in which he informs that Minister that France, and indeed all the great Powers of Europe, desired the integrity and independence of the Ottoman Empire under the present dynasty, and expressed a hope on the substance of his note being communicated to Lord Palmerston, that England would not refuse to join with France, Austria, Russia, and Prussia, in taking proper steps to secure such an important ob ject. M. Gaizot expressed similar sentiments, and a wish to preserve the integrity of the Ottoman Em pire, and, at the same time, peace with England. If there was any man—if there were any two men, who would shrink from a conflict with England, it was the combination of these two men. It would be a sacrifice of opinion on my part if I did not give expression to it, and my belief is that these men acted from their honest con victions. I admire the honesty and manliness with wnich Marshal Souls came forward and stated that he bore a grateful recollection of the reception he had met with in this country.—( Hear and cheers, ) That reception wan not so much the personal esteem in which the old warrior was held, as an indication that the old ungenerous national antipathies and animosities against France were extinct in this country, and that we took that opportunity of proving our kind feeling towards it.— ( Cheers from both sides of the House.) Sir, I have risen at the risk of doing a disservice to Marshal Soult, by complimenting him in a British House of Commons, when I express my anxious hope that ho and M. Guizot, aided by the enlightened King of France, may be successful, and that, while maintaining the honour of France inviolate, they may have power enough, aided by the returning good sense of that country, to rescue it and the rest of Europe front the miserable calamity of renewed hostilities.—(Loud cheering.) Mr. GROTE explained, He had not said that the danger of Russia occupying Constantinople was an insuffi cient cause for the war, but that there was no security for such an occurrence from their interfering in the concerns of the Ottoman empire. Lord PALMERSTON—Sir I am not going to dis cuss the whole of the topics introduced in the speech of the Right Hon. Bart., or to find fault with him for find ing fault with some of the details of our conduct while approving of the main policy. The Right Hon. Baronet has a perfect right to make these distinctions ; but I think that I shall be able to show that the objections he has made do not rest on any solid foundation. I hope, on the contrary, to show that in many things which have fallen from the Right Hon. Baronet, and especially at the con clusion of his speech, we do not entirely concur.— ( Hear, hear.) Sir Ido concur in deeply lamenting that the course these discussions has taken have for a time, and only, I trust, for a short time, interrupted that good and friendly feeling which has happily so long, or at least during the last 10 years, subsisted between England and France. I agree with the Right Hon. Baronet that it is of the greatest importance not merely to the welfare and prosperity of the two countries, but to the peace and tranquillity of Europe, that there should be a good un derstanding between England and France. Sir, I have gone further on that point than the Right Hon. Baronet, fur I have attached greater importance and value than himself to a closer connection between the two countries. ( Hear, hear.) It has often been my lot to stand in my place here and to justify myself against the charge of at taching too much importance to that connection. I al ways have said, when that topic was brought up against me, that I understood the alliance between France and Eng land rested upon the interests of the two countries, and whenever their interests diverged the alliance would be placed in the same antithesis. Sir, I should deeply la ment that the interests of those two countries should di verge; and although it may be presumptuous in an Eng lishman to estimate the interests of France differently from the French people themselves, I cannot help thinking that the real interests of France with regard to the Turkish question are identical with those of England, and that we have not been pursuing any course which would justify the resentment or hostility of that country. I am persuaded that when the French nation comes to a calmer temper and reflects more coolly upon our princi ples of action, and the ends we have endeavoured to main tain, and when they know and understand more fully that we have not acted in a spirit of jealousy or unfriendliness towards France, I cannot divest myself of the conviction that wo shall find that the temper of the French nation as regards England will turn to that form which we most anxiously desire, and which we regret has been departed from.—Sir, I rejoice that the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet has shown that in the great interests of England both parties in this House concur, and what ever party rivalships exist with regard to competition for ' power in this country, they do not stand in the way of unity of opinion when it is shown that the great interests of the country are at stake. lam glad also to find by what has fallen from the Right Hon. Baronet, that, whatever may have been said casually by individuals on former occasions, among the leading men on both sides there is a settled conviction and an earliest desire that the best understanding and the kindest feelings should exist between the two countries.—( Hear, hear.) I can assure the House and the Right Hon. Baronet, that as, on the one hand, no efforts on our part shall be omitted during the course of these negotiations to obtain and retain the co-operation of France ; so, on the other hand, no proper efforts on our part shall be omitted to regain the good will of France, and to bring back our ancient friendly relations. Sir, I am perfectly ready to admit that, considering the great power of France, possessed as she is of vast military and naval means, and placed geographically in the centre of Eu. rope, she cannot be excluded from the great affairs of Europe in any settlement of any of its great affairs, nor can they be complete or secure until France is brought to take a part in their settlement. I' shall now dis pose of some of the objectiors of the Right Hon. Baronet ; viz., that we did not s h ow su ffi c i ent courtesy to F rance, in not making her acquainted with the intention of the Four Powers to conclude the Treaty. Sir, I hare on former occasions discussed that point in this House, and it is entirely a mistake to say that we allowed Parliament to separate without giving it any intimation or a know ledge of the transaction. Sir, I need scarcely re mind the House that on two occasions it fell to may lot, after the signing of the treaty, to enter into explana tions as to the course we had pursued. We had been for twelve months endeavouring to bring France to an understanding with us. We failed in so doing, although we made several propositions to France, and made several concessions of our own views. We made a last repre sentation, stating the utmost extent we should go in sacri ficing what we considered expedient to obtain her co-ope• ration; and now the Hon. Member for Kilkenny accuses us of incon , istency, in having gone so far, although at least it is a proof of our sincerity in wishing to make every possible sacrifice for the purpose of obtaining the co-opera tion of France in the transaction to which I allude. After the lapse of five or six weeks, we received a posi tive refusal on the part of France to concur in the arrange ment, and that refusal was grounded on the distant and broad principle that it could not be carried into effect with out resorting to coercive measures against the Pacha, to which ' France would not be a party. Our Treaty was founded upon that very arrangement, with a proviso of having re course to coercive measures. Would it have been seemly or any thing but a mockery to France, to have gone to her and said, " You have refused to join us; we told you the ultimate extent of our concessions, to which, if you did not agree, we should act without you ; and we now call upon you to be a party to those coercive measures which you declared on no consideration would you take a share in." So far from that being a cause of quarrel with France, I think the Ambassador would have had just cause of quarrel, for it would have implied on our part that we thought them insincere, and that we had disbelieved France in her former declaration. But then, Sir, to the point of expe diency. It must be clear to every one, after the) have read the debates in the French Chamber, that the only object of the French Government: was to gain time to prevent us from doing anything except by negotia tion ; and every one must know, that had we made any communication, it must have led to others on the part of the French Government, and time would have been lost which, considering the period when operations must cease on the coast of Syria, must have prevented any ope rations altogether durinr , that season. Had we taken that course, it would have shown the greatest imbecility, be cause the French Government would have found some means or other to cause delay, and all effective measures would have been rendered useless for a year. Then, Sir, again I am perfectly aware that such a course would have been inconsistent with usage, for I am not aware that the Plenipotentiaries at this Court would have been justified in consenting to any modification, unless they kNew that their own Courts would agree to and ratify them. An other objection taken by the Right Hon. Baronet was the secresy-__ Sir - R. PEEL—It was communicated. Lord PALMERSTON_Undoubtedly. The second day after the Treaty was signed I communicated to the Ambassador of France, not only the fact, but the substance of the Treaty ; but that, I apprehend, would not be enough. The French Government would have said, " You must give us the Treaty in exteizso ; we have already said we will not agree with your proposition ; you must let us see the Treaty itself in order to know whether any of the de tails will make amends to us for its substance." Now, Sir, with regard to the communication to Parliament, the Right Hon. Bart. says it was unfitting for Government to allow Parliament to separate without making them aware of the nature of the engagements which had been entered into by the Crown of this country. Now, Sir, as to lay ing the Treaty itself on the table, the objection was insur mountable. We could not lay a Treaty on the table of the House without its having been ratified. That the Treaty was signed was a matter of notoriety in the House. The Treaty itself wns published in the newspapers either a day or two before or after the separation of Parliament. Sir R. PEEL—Not till three weeks after. Lord PALMERSTON—I will not lay any stress upon that fact. I am not quite aware of the circumstances, but the object of the treaty and the fact were matters of public notoriety, and the Hon. Member for Kilkenny had brought the question two distinct times before the House ; therefore it was impossible but that Parliament was com pletely aware of the circumstance, and could not by possi bility be kept in ignorance of what had been done. The Right Hon. Baronet said that although the treaty could not be laid before them unless ratified, still there was an accompanying protocol which ought to have been laid upon the table. It was true that there was such a document, but that protocol was founded upon the treaty, and there fore could not be laid before the House without the instru ment out of which it arose, and although the Plenipotentia ries of the Four Powers determined that certain ineasui es should be immediately carried into execution, still the proto col had to go to the various Courts, and they might object to the steps proposed to be taken, and might have stopped their execution before the orders given could have been acted upon. Now, Sir, with regard to my despatch of the 2d of November, I should certainly have wished that it had been communicated before the change of the Government in France, but circumstances prevented me from sending it sooner, and I did not think that the change was any reason why they should allow matters to be recognised in which they could not concur. With respect to th general policy it would certainly be the duty of the Government to lay be fore the House such documents and information as would put Hon. Members in possession of better grounds on which to form a conclusive opinion upon these matters. The Noble Lord ( Lord J. Russell) stated in so masterly a manner the general outlines upon which our policy rests, that it is only necessary to refer to that Speech for a full and satisfactory answer to all that has been advanced, and I may fairly say that the Hon. Members for Kilkenny and Lon don are the only Members who, upon general grounds, would be disposed to vote any objections to the cause which Government has pursued. The state of affairs in the Levant for many years past has been pregnant with danger to the people of Europe. The Sultan was threatened by a powerful vassal upon whose for bearance no reliance could be placed, nay, who was about to carry his aggressions further. The Sultan felt obliged to throw himself upon the pro tection of some Power in Europe, and it was neces sary that we should either form a combination, or leave him, as in l 532, to the support of one Power, which Power would have acquired undue preponderance in the affairs of Europe. The intention of the Treaty was to avert events which might have involved the Great Powers of Europe in great difficulties, if not in actual hostilities. Then it is said we ought not to have engaged in this po licy, knowing the objection of France ; because, by so doing, we incurred the danger of war. In the first place, I will say that, acceeding to all the diplomatic tra sanc tions of France, they were entitled to assume that, without an entire departure from her own professions, she could not take up arms in support of the Pacha, and against the Sultan, and then if not, it was clear no war could ensue ; it was said that;the interference would be beset with difficulties, and that the means would not be sufficient. The result has proved that that information and those opinions were based upon wrong calculations, because we have not only succeeded, but we may say that our success has been more rapid than it was possible to have anticipated. It appears to me that the very reason which ought to recommend the course we have pursued has been made a subject of complaint by my lion. Friend the Member for Kilkenny—namely, that we were assisting a willing people to emancipate themselves from a tyranny which they felt to be intolerable, and that we were aiding them to giv e e ff ec t t o their own wishes with re gar d to their allegiance to their own sovereign ; for if the people had not been anxious to return to the direct autho rity of the Sultan, and to get rid of the rule of Egypt, it is clear that the Turkish force and our squadron of marines on the coast, would not have been sufficient to accomplish that great and rapid result which we had the good fortune to realise. Therefore I say we have had good grounds in the first place in thinking that what we were about would not disturb the peace of Europe ; and, secondly, in beetle of opinion that we were not undertaken; an object which e had not means to accomplish. And though undoubtedly great irritation has been created in France by the course which the Four Powers have pursued, yet I feel bound to say that if the same pains had been taken to enlighten and inform public opinion in France as to the nature of those transsetions—( Hear)—and as to the spirit in which they were conceived, which have been taken to mislead the people of that country, to excite uefounded jealousies and groundless animosities, I am convinced that the interrup tion which has unfortunately for a moment taken place between the two countries would either not have existed at all, or, if it had existed at all, would have been of an infinitely more trifling and more transient nature.— ( Hear.) I will not, on the present occasion, go into the details of the minor points, to which my Hon. Friend, the Member for Kilkenny, has adverted. Many of those Points he will find explained when the papers are laid be. 'fore him ; and I will then be ready when the House is in possession of full information on the subject—l will be ready to go into more detailed explanations, which will be more easily understood by the House than they could be at present. I shall now only say, that if my Hon. Friend presses the amendment he has introduced, it affords me great satisfaction to think that he will not find a lurge number of supporters. If I were inclined to criticize his Address on the same principle on which he has criticized ours, I think I might point out almost as many omissions in his address of the matters which ought to be touched on, as he alleges he has found in our Speech and the Address moved tonight. I will not further detain the House; I . can only again repeat, that if we did not advise the Crown to introduce into the Speech from the Throne any expres sion of regret that France has not been a party to the transactions, it was not because we did not feel that regret, or because we thought that the House would not respond to such an expression, but I apprehend it would have been unusual—it would have been inconsistent with the ordi nary principles on which Speeches from the Throne are framed, to express regret at an interruption of good under. standing which had not beets marked by any diplomatic event. If either country had formally expressed its dissa tisfaction—if there had been an interruption of diplomatic relations, then there would undoubtedly have been an act of which the Crown might have taken notice in its Speech. But for the Crown merely to have taken notice of that irrita tion , which in various ways has been unfortunately manifest in France, would not, I think, have been consistent with the ordinary course of proceedings in regard to documents of that nature. But if the Right Hon. Baronet thinks that the omission implies any want of regret on the part of her Majesty's advisers on the subject, I can assure him —and I am satisfied that every one of my colleagues would equally assure him—that the regret he has expressed is sin cerely shared in by us ; and I have a confident hope that be. fore any length of time shall have elapsed, we will find that the present irritation in France has subsided, and that France will revert to her natural and proper position in Europe, and that that understanding which is essential to the fundamental interests of the two countries, will be found to have returned to its former condition. The Address was then put and agreed to. It was or derred to be referred to a Committee and reported to. morrow, and the House adjourned at Half-past Eleven o'clock. THE INUNDATIONS AT BRENTFORD.---The subscription in behalf of the unfortunate destitute boatmen, their wives and families, and the poor c o tt agers, i s pro gressing favourably. In addition to the sums already men tioned in the daily papers, the Vicar and Churchwardens have this day received, among others, the following sums :--Her Msjesty the Queen has forwarded twenty guineas ; the Duke of Northumberland, 50/. ; tho Arch bishop of Canterbury, 10/ ; the Duke of Cleveland. 20/. ; Ge irge Byng, Esq., M. P. for Middlesex, 30/. ; Woad T. Wood, M. P. kir Middlesex, Si.; Colonel Wood, M. P. for Brecon, 5/. ; Archdeacon Camb•idge and Mr. Cam. bridge, 101. ; Baroness de Rothschild, 1 04,84. -EVENINCI lifairjOiN; COURT CIRCULAR. Lords,H er to Majesty ajoepsetny the w en s t e i s n a o S n t a o t t e y p e a s r t l e i a r d m a e y n t to w t i h t h e allosupsee of ech from the Throne. The Royal Procession eves formed at Buckingham Palace at halcpast one o'clock, and her Ma' jps , , and Prince Albert, conducted by the Earl of Lord bridge, Lord Chamberlain, and preceded by the S RStoecwinasrd and d nd dethseendMeadstetirteof Grandthe H s o ta r i a r e e , as l e el t t o h t t he es t t a a t t i carriage, her Majesty's train being borne by the Page s ° Honour in Waiting. The State Procession left the Palace in the following order :—A carriage drawn by six bays, conveying t !' Blackwood, Mr. Hobhouse, and Colonel Diggle, men Ushers; and Mr. Samuel Hancock, Exon in Waiting; A carriage drawn by six bays, conveying Lord Alfre u Paget, Equerry_in Waiting; Captain Seymour, Groot!' of the Robes; Masters Wemyss, Byng, and Wil e ri Pages of Honour in Waiting ; and the Silver e in Waiting, A carriage drawn by six bays, c ° , °. veying Lord Ki n naird, Master o f the Buck Houv a i the Right lion. George Stevens 13yng, Comptrolle r °, the Household ; Mr. Rich, Groom in Waiting ; and Bouverie, Eye, rry to Prince Albert. A carriage dr a by six bays, conveying the Earl of Ilehostor, Captain i ° , l the Yeomen of the Guard; Lord Hill, G. (,'.8., Stick in Waiting ; Earl of Surrey, Tre Asurer of tbo Household ; and the Earl of Morley, Geutleman of P. Bedchamber to Prince Albert. A carriage drawn 1 )9, 1 , 1 " black horses, conveying the Marchioness of Ntrms",i Lady of the Bedchamber; the Earl of' Errol, K. T., 11-jr , Steward of the Household ; Lord Robcrt Galiver n 'i Groom of the Stole to Prince Albert; and the Earl Listowel, Lord in Waiting. The Queen's M a rshal o,6 7, two and two, the Queen's Footmen in State liveries 01 . 1 ; and two, a party of the Yeomen of the Guard in tb e , l Coronation costumes, the State coach driven by Robe rt i in which were the Queen and Prince Albert (his Ret i , Highness wearing a Field Marshal's Uniform, with tu: collar and star of the Most Noble Order of the Garfee )r Lady Portman, Lady in Waiting, and the Earl of Alb e ; merle, G. C. H., Master of the Horse. The Royal corigg was escorted from the Palace by a party of the Royal ltr giment of Horse Guards. Her Majesty and Prince Albert were received gl Buckingham Palace on their return by the Lord Chat berlain. The Yeomen of the Guard were o n duty in , t "„; Grand Hall, and the Queen' s G uar d o f th e Grenan Regiment of Foot G uar d s were on duty with the ben ° the Regiment on the P a l ace L awn , an d received her .Ile jesty with the usual honours. Previous to the Queen's departure for the House 1, Lords, Master Wilson was presented to her MajestfT, the Master of the Ho rse en b e i ng appo i nte d one of t' Pages of Honour to her Majesty. Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent was r e ; vented from direng at Buckingham Palace on Mote% evening by slight indisposition. Lady Fanny Howard and C o l one l C owper joine d ßoyal Circle at Buckingham Palace at dinner on blond evening. The band of the `_>d Regiment o f Lif e G uar ds war 0 attendance during dinner. The Royal dinner party last evening included her I. Highness the Duchess of Kent, the Mar c hi oness of o° j ; manby, Earl of Uxbridge, Earl o f Alb emar l e , a nd Fanny Howard. The band of the Coldstream Regiment of Foot GO' attended at the Palace durieg the evening. 0 1 The Bishop of London had an interview with Vise ° Melbourne yesterday, in Downing-street. Despatches from th e G overnors o f the Cape of G°1 „ ( Hope, British Guian a , M aur i t i us , an d Newfoundland received yesterday, at the Colonial-office. Colonel Peel, M. P., and Lady Alice Peel have 90 at Farrance's Hotel, from Marble Hill, Tw ekenhatu• POLICE IN TELLIGENCE. 11LNS1. THE Loss of T H E DRYA O D.—Y N-HOUSE y esterda tht, tion of Michael Shaw Stewart Wallace and Patrick well Stewart Walla ce was resume d b e f ore Si r P . Vi r e o A number of witness es were exam i ne d , among °,t:list Mr. Samuel Beckley, an i nsurance b ro k er . w h oa ta n lie did business occasionally for Messrs. Zulueta, e",ct On the 7th of September, 1839, h e e ff ecte d an insur7,oo for them at Lloyd's, for good s on b oar d t h e D,lad d Liverpool to Santa Cruza, in Cuba, for tk.e 911 ' 1 , 3,000/. It was declared an d sea l e d on t h e 1 7 t h . of ScPatl Mr. W. Smith, a cl er k i n t h e h ouse o f M ess 11. 1-4°i'„licl and Co.—The whole of th e money ment i one d i n t he was received as a total loss on behalf of his emplt )ye* Iht Witnesses were then examined at great leur,:b , 01 at subject of tra c i ng t h e money rece i ve d b y the prlfi°llo, This evidence was satisfactory, and the prisoners wel l manded till this day. g. MRS. GORE'S NEW NOVEL, " GREVIL I I,I OR, A SEASON IN PARIS."-This new work (obser vi ; i r Contemporary) exhibits Mrs. G ore ' s we ll-k nown ebaffli' teristics of easy, buoyant, and pointed composition ; s 00 citous skill in depicting manners, and a smart, real"' bitter, satire, directed against vice in all its fora ' f o r laying the scene of her story for the most part on the to tii tinent, she has been enabled to vary her subjects" a u ,,, tuting French for English mann ers —th e f as hi ona Ve 10 0 tors of Paris for those of London—and the Cour e Tuilleries for that of St. James's. There aro many foo scenes in the work, many bold and energetic sks te" figures, and it exhibits a most intimat e k now l e d g c; 6 ' 1 0 4 ciety and the habits of the French capital. The pi4 ° o of observation displayed by Mrs. Gore in G rf , l o o o perhaps, even more striking than many of 'Dor .0 ,11 works; and so are h er portraits. Gii;ville, the 1 1 0 1' well painted, as a y oung , hi g h b orn , a.nd h i gh b re d Jo' lishman. Young Massingberd, the Bandy rival leC! rate means, whose method of advancement is .i 0 41 1„ , i ii and extravagance, is capital ; a n d th e French 114111440.", not only life-like, but new. Greville is likely tc the; Mrs. Gore's most popular productions, for thei 11' ; ) English visitants to Paris wh o w ill not desire f;c' p lip o e her sparkling sketches of society in that lively in go` v bicP It is rumoured that amo ngs t th e h onou rs `to will be dispensed by her Mairsty immediately christening of the Princess, Viscount Melbourn 0 ",,,ill 7 created a Marquis, and that an English earldc in conferred upon Lord Palmerston. , a Ul LOSS OF THE FAIRY.—N o bIy h as tr 4 responded to the praiseworthy exertions of Ifornby, C. 8., of her Majesty's Dockyard, ' l °, ( l to alleviate the loss which the w id ows o f the p. 0 5 : ship's company of her Maj es ty' s s hi p Fairy ha.„ o,o4etf ,' perienced—the amount al rea dy co ll ecte d b e i nh wards of SON. Amongst the most recent subs eT j oil , ' her Majesty the Qu een D owager , f or t h e sum 01 which has been received here. PATENT LEVER GOLD WAVC OI I' ll Lady's size, with strong engine-turned double-backe cases, elegant gold dials, Fourteen Guinea', each. Gentlemen's size, with secon d s . an d sma ll f ar the I #l ,O hard enamel dial, Thirteen Guineas eac - ,1 1 . oIP, This celebrated construction (the most accurate oil dol . , a watch can be made) is now off ere d,, w i t h t h e l ates t in 1 .5 00 ments, i. e., the detached escapement, jewelled in foal 4 00 capped, hand to mark the seconds, maintaining poser to CS to going while winding up, at the above price. • 4 A printed warranty is given, w ith fi xe d t erms, ea vil'll' Watches will always receive any attention required. 0 T. COX SAVORY, ,P 1 Watchmaker, Jeweller, &c., 47, C orn hill (Seven (WI." Gracechurch-street), London. N.B.—Second-hand Watches pur c h ase d i n exchant,/, o; PLATE —A. B. SAVORY and SONS - g le 0 ,0 acturing Silversmiths, No. 14, Cornhill, London, 01 1 7,110', n Bank of England. The best wrou g ht FIDDLE PAO 4 110 0 s SPOONS and FORKS, at 7s. 2d. p er ounce. ito ' lO lO int , are the weights recommended, b u t th e art i c l es • naaY lighter or heavier at the same price per ounce. •.. . i 4 12 Fid , lle Pattern Silver Table Spoons oz. 30 at 1 2... i tl. 10 .i,l J 2 ditto Dessert ditty 20 '7 2... ig 12 ditto Table Forks us 7 2... / ,j/ 12 ditto Dessert ditto 20 7 2... g ~ j 0 2 ditto Gravy Spoons lO 7 2••• 1 ,',lO I ditto Soup Ladle 10 , 7 2... g r a t/ 4 ditto Sauce ditto.. lO 7 P••• I,' 0 4 ditto Salt Spoons (gilt 5tr0ng ).....,,,,, , ..... ..., ..... ••• gll 1 ditto Fish Slice 12 ditto Tea Spoons lll V S..' 0 1 '121 1 pair ditto Sugar Tongs ( Newspaper, c°• tSi l ' i Di N. B. A Price Current, stamped as a I ' b os p drawings, an d every i n f ormat i on re l at i ve to the pu rc oil l silver or Sheffield pl a t e , ma y b e h a d an application, 4 '.5 lett er sent into the country, fr ee of p os t age , i n. answer to a p2l fP 1 ,...... /: SUPERIOR LONDON TABLE K- /41 il°':, with Ivory Handles, 14 s . p er d ozen • Dessert Kulv e .:; I)°,: r Carvers, sc. 6d. per pair ; T a bl e K n i ves, with whieriP,ol, handles, Ss. Bd. per dozen , D esser t, 6s. Bd. ; Car l s i i sl,l per pair ; Globe-shape Tea-urns, 4 quarts, 275. ; Newholll' ,ootlei full 39s. ;sixes. Papier Macke Tea-tray s , gothic shape, tiOs ; t Catalogues, containing the price of every article fps ing ironmongery and cutlery. gratis. RIPPON and BURTON, \Veils-street, Ox.ford-s tr Established 1820. On the 13th inst., at Florence, the iwily o f iv. St. i p Esq., !we of the 7th Dragoon Guards, of u daughter. On the 21st in s t., a t N or th P ara d e, D erby, Mrs. P s " f te Williamson, of a son. li A eIOP On the 22d inst., th e L a dy Louisa Whitmore, of a 1, I On the 23d inst., in Park-stree t, Grosvenor-square , 0 Mrs. Butler Johnstone, of Core i nead, of a son. utiv slt e On the 24th inst., Mrs. N. O ver b ury, of Doug"' 0 Meeklonburgh.square, of a daughter. pct . ' On the 24th inst., the w if e o f T . Loughborough, 0 Trinity-square, Newington, of a son. On the 24th inst., in York-street, Portman-squarer __,/of G. Cochrane, E sq ., o f a son. - ----- r AI fo MARRIED. A tifr i ‘ i On the 25th inst., at St. G eorge ' s, Bloomsbury, ,--,o4j' rington, Esq., of Roehford, Essex, to Emily French. le! of J. Barry, Esq., of Montague-street, Russell-squar e " CO C o i At St. George's, Bloomsbury, L u k e , son of the laf. o n 'iple Bartrum, Esq., t o Caroline, dau g ht er o f C apta i n T. ' e y Hunter-street, Brunswick-square. e ilic sl o' At Cranlev, Su rrey , Robert It. Sutleffe, Esq., In , ft. tablishment, M a d ras , t o Eli za, daughter of the Il e '' lif Wolfe, Rector o f C ran l ey. fi le At Kenningt on , Li eu tenant,,y to A. M'L c od, R. N. ,/ (laughter of B. Ald er , E sq., B rixton. .....„ .---- Os'' DLED. Of' On the 25th of October, in camp, at Kid, , Ensig n ' er o r Lumley Burnand, 20th Regiment Madras Native. 10121 f' i. On the 29th of Oct o b er , a t Sella, unpore, East IV -,, /, 0 11 ' tain John S. Bosw e ll, l a t e o f t h e 19th Regiment //...., 1 7-130ir On the 7th inst., at Cas t l e - s t reo t, Edinburgh, ''' . fo ol' Esq., advocate, and She( itf of Berw ; ,ckshire. ~ref On the 20th inst., at Nutford-pace, Bryanston-sq ,, - Ka el' tli" A widow of the late Captain W. a- Parkinson, Royal ' o der' On the 22d inst., at Bexley, K ent, J ames .Al" dig e te, son of Major Cruikshank. On the 22d inst., at Pyle's House, Si r wife of Sir Stafford H. Northcote, Bart. late . f.`..n the 23,1 inst., Lady Wigram, relict of al c il e , t Devonshire , 1244 . S' Wigram, Bart., of Walthamstow House, Essex' ,f r y. 0 1,AP On the 23d inst., in Chester-square, the Hon. ""„ol id ir On the 23d inst., in Baker.street, Major- Gene [a Smith, of the Hon. East India Company's S e rvicel ~, i Establishment, aged 61. , ..e''' ..l - 14 o, is l .:- London: Printed and Published by MURD 0 : ito 1 , 112, , 110 No. 112, Strand, at Th e S un offi ce , No the county of Middleses.—Wednesday, Jnnuari 2 ! '1 1/V ue made T enlie 61 11 C • A IL, nt Ur s 7 4 aril Ir j o t rn j os.'h 4 , Lis j a P wsl ri e; Ith pII om t iNII; % SI tkIcITC I The f ?ry and ni (4 nirkn • Way (4 . ) ser iPtiovi, A Ppli ; 1 ' Per I 't of r, vidend No furl k,z moot} Th e f o l e nipic G overn m 66400.. ORI (GR TA( BRA IRE ROI 1107 Insi , This C liarly fay< the future It to a large roposed l oirs tire/ 2. Th e 4 ave a CO ste am n" them I sixle eb y, c . "rn an a With the 4. It Gov ernm 5 . The their shar The p r t b e ' i ned at "egent-s Cor n pan Solie 39, ALI ~y M.( I