The Sun. — London, England, 1828-06-21 00:00:00

to often discu;sed, tln . ; c it was n o t n ecessar y for Lim to say more than t_o notice the principle on which it stood, and wt; i d t was t hi s —they did not defend these grants, on account of any duty which the indi viduals in whom they were bestowed did ; but it had been constantly stated that these appointments from time immemorial, been given as honorary rewards, accompanied by some degree of pecuniary profit, for services performed by miliwy men. If the principle could not stand on this gollibid, it was good for nothing. Alr. HUME should be glad to know what were the meritorious services of the Governor of Dart nioutli ? 6a ii. HARDtNGE—That situation has been, for upwards of a century and a half, hereditary in the same family. Mr.. 'HUME said, Dartmouth Castle he long since expected would, before this, have been erased from the estimates. He knew quite well that the ap pointment was given to one family. That family bad the patronage of the borough, which sent two Members to Parliament. Was not that corruption ? —(Hear, hear.) HAIthINGE said the vote was less than it was 40 or 50 years ago; and these were old emo-,' luments which had belonged to the garris:;;, f or many years. Though governed now a civilian, it would not be so governed herear:,..a.; and he could assure the Hon. Gentleman f .e.at the garrison was smaller in number now t ".iirn it was 50 or 60 years ago. Mr. HUME t i .enied that this branch of the esti mates had d" greased. Sir H. rIAIMINGE contended that these esti mates I :iere decreased in amount. In every respect there was a diminution; only at Malta and the lonian Islands, where there was a transfer of town :majors, and other efficient officers, a slight increase bad occurred. Mr. HUME complained of the large revenue which was wasted at Malta by the Governer there, instead of being devoted to the support of the esta blishment. The expense, in consequence, fell hea vily on the country. Sir J. WROTTESLEY said, the Right Hon. Gentlgman must well know that many officers, raajore,general, &c. received 500/. a year, though they had never served during the war. There was, he feared, no distinction made in the appointment of these sinecures. The case of Dartmouth Castle he considered a very strong one. Sir H. HARDINGE said, it was true, P:- .4 the lion. Member for Chichester had renr .aked, that some general officers did receiye ' 4l lO/. or 600/. a-year at the end of the war, "' l. ..flout having seen service. But it should , be re" .:ol l ected that, in 1818, a warrant passed the t! - Aorse Guards, limiting the number of general.oTiteers to 120; and a number of the general-officers were not able to live on the sm , .. l a stipend tl4ley had. In 1821 the sum voted for general-officers was 174,000/., and in 1828, it was reduced to 116,000/., and no vacancy would be filled up until the number of general-officers was below one hundred and twenty. Sir J. WROTTESLEY said, this was no answer to his statement. Sir JAMES GRAHAM was not prepared to argue the principle laid down that these were proper appointments by which to reward military officers who had distinguished themselves. i'be case of Dartmouth was an exception to this principle. Dart mouth had been avowedly in r -lie hands of civilians, and not only of civilians, but of civilians of the same family, for a long timr.2 past,—not for any good and laudable purps'e, but for the most suspicious pos sible, as 'no could net help thinking, when he found that the holder of it had great interest in the borough which returned two members to Parliament. He should feel it his duty to take the sense of the House on the propriety of continuing such a system, and for this purpose would move that the grant be re duced by 1731. 175., the amount of the salary of the Governor. After a few words from Capt. BASTARD and Sir M. W. RIDLEY, Sir H. VIVIAN said, this appointment had been in the family a number of years, and had been granted in consideration of Mr. Holdsworth and the town having built, the garrison. Now, might there not have been some agreement on the part of Go vernment to pay the Governor ? He did not say so, because he did not know, but he thought that it would be right to inquire into the matter. Lord J. TOWNSHEND said, that although Dartmouth might have been for years past in the hands of a civilian, it had nevertheless, done good service. He felt it his duty to say that it saved him from being made prisoner. —(Hear.)--He had the honour to command one of his Majesty's vessels, which was chased by two privateers, and was only saved from falling into their hands by taking refuge under the protection of Dartmouth.—(Cheers.) Sir J. GRAHAM said, that if the Right Hon. Gentleman would give his pledge that the Crown would bestow the appointment on a military man after the lifetime of the present Governor, he would not press his motion to a division. But coupled as it was with the borough, he should, in the absence of any such assurance on the part of the Right Hon. Gentleman, embrace this opportunity of taking the sense of the House upon the subject. The CHANCELLOit of the EXCHEQUER said they had heard it stated, that the appointment was thus disposed of on account of the fort having been built by the family of Mr Holdsworth, and that some agreement existed between the Government and that family. He did not know that this state ment was correct, but he thought it ought to be in quired into before they entertained the motion of the Hon. Baronet. Mr. MABERLY thought, that as a finance com mittee was sitting, whose business it would be to inquire into all matters of this nature, the subject had better be left to them. His Hon. Friend (Sir J. Graham) did not yet knew whether the fort had been built by the family, or whether any agreement had been made between the family and the Govern ment. He must say, that he thought it fair that an inquiry should be first instituted. Sir LI. HARDINGE was at present in possession of no information on the subject, but would certainly make every inquiry in his power. He hoped the Hon. Baronet would not press his motion to a di vision. Sir J. GRAHAM said, that if the Right Hon. Gentleman would postpone the grant until it was ascertained whether the fort hail been built, by the family, he would postpone his motion. Mr. R. GORDON thought the grant ought either to be postponed, or the motion of the Hon. Baronet pressed to a division. Mr. STEWART hoped that the Hon. Baronet would persist in his motion. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw. On our return to the gallery we found the num bers— For the motion Against it 7O Majority -32 The tint resolution was, " that a sum not ex ceeding 112,500/. should be granted His Majesty for full pay for reduced, unreduced, retired, and unat tached officers of His Majesty's forces for 1828." After a few veords from Sir J. CMAIIAM, Sir H. HARDINGE, and Mr. HustE, the resolution was agreed to. The next resolution was " that a sum not exceed ing 101,4701. be granted to his Majesty to defray the expences of half-pay and reduced allowances to of ficers of disbanded foreign corps, of pensions to wounded foreign officers, and of allowances to the widows and children of deceased foreign officers, for 1828," which, after a few words from Mr. HUME itlld Sir J. WR9TTESLEY, was agreed to. The next resolution was "that a sum not exceed ing 13,113/. be granted to his Majesty to defray the expences of military allowances to reduced and retired officers of his Majesty's land forces for 1828." Sir H. HARDINGE observed, that this rett: had been reduced 3,000/. since the estimate was made. Mr. HUME thought the expenses of Chelsea Hospital too great. As to Kilmainham, the late Secretary at War pronounced last year that the two establishments of Kilmainham and Chelsea should be consolidated. Lord PALMERSTON said, all that had been promised had been performed, and that wt.% that the out-pensioners of Kilmainham should be tinder the control of the establishment at Chelsea. After a few words from Sir A. HOPE and Mr. MABERLY, the resolution was agreed to. The next resolution was, " that a sum not exceed ing 46,115/. 2s. 11d. be granted to his Majesty to defray the expenses of the in•pensioners of Chelsea Hospital, and of the Royal Hospital near Kilmain ham, for 1828." Mr. HUME said they had had that vote before. Sir H. HARDINGE said that they had dis cussed it, but that it had not yet been proposed.— Agreed to. The next resolution was, " that a sum not ex ceeding 335,9761. 3s. id. be granted to his Ma jesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the expenses of the out-pensioners of Chelsea Hospital for 1828." After a few words from Sir H. HARDINGE, Lord PALstER.t,ToN, Sir A. HOPE, and Mr. HUME, the YO*.e was agreed to. 'n Majesty for The next was, " that a sum r_... ot exectding 27,629/. 3s. 7d, be granted tQ ts de fraying the charge Cuf tic Royal Military Asylum for 1828. --Agreed to. 'The next vote was, " that a sum not exceeding 143,083/. be granted to his Majesty for the payment of the pensions of the widows of officers in his Mai jesty's land forces for 1828." Mr. HUME was anxious to call the attention of the Right Hon. Gentleman to the expence of the office of Chaplain-General to the army, to which was attached 8001. a year. This salary was only 3001. a year till the middle of the war, when it was raised to its present amount. The clergyman who now held it had also a high dignity in the church, as Dean of Carlisle, and he was also the incumbent of St, George's parish, one of the richest about London. Nov this was monstrous. Lord PALMERSTON `Lid, the situation was by no means a sinecure. The appointment was not with the Secretary at War, it was with the Com mander-in-Chief; tnd the person holding it had the responsibility ;if all appointments to chaplaincies in the army • „ as those appointments were made on his rear .umendatioh, There were not now so many army chaplains as before, but a great part of the duty of regiments was done by local clergy, with whom there was a very extensive correspondence kept up by the chaplain-general. Mr. HUME said, if he had the extensive corres pondence mentioned by the Noble Lord, how could he attend to his other duties ? The Noble Lord had complained of the paltry allowance of 2001. or 3001. a year given to a general officer or colonel after 10 or 50 years service, and yet here was an individual with 800/. a-year, who had never seen any. But the 800/. a year was not the only cost of this office. There was allowance for office-rent, clerk, and assistant-messenger, &c., making altogether a sum as goad as the value of a bishopric. While on this subject he would mention the large sums paid for Bibles to the army. He had it from the serjeant of a regiment stationed at Edinburgh Castle, that the men who had each got a Bible, sold them when leaving, because they did not wish to add to the already great weight of their kit. Lord PALMERSTON said, that when the men were on march at home, their kit went on the baggage-waggons. Mr. HUME.—Only sometimes. The motion was then agreed to. The next item was, " that a sum not exceeding 195,5001. he granted to his Majesty to defray the charge of allowance on the compassionate list; also for his Majesty's Royal bounty, and for compensa tion to officers for wounds, for 1828."—Agreed to. The next was, " That a sum not exceeding 58,1801. 19s. 11d. be granted to his Majesty to de fray the charge of allowances, compensation, and emoluments, in the nature of superannuation al lowances, to persons in the several departments connected with the army, for 1828." Mr. HUME, on looking over the accounts, saw a pension to Mr. Lushington, who had already 10,000/. a-year, as Governor of Madras. He wished to know if this pension was to be continued. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would inquire into the subject. The motion was then agreed to. The next motion was, " That a sum not exceed ing 33,0001. be granted to his Majesty for defray ing the charge of Exchequer-fees on issues for army services for 1828." Mr. BERNAL asked whether some means might not be devised to simplify these accounts. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the subject would be submitted to the Finance Committee. _ _ After a few words from Mr. HuatE, respecting the necessity of reduction, which were replied to by Sir H. HARDINGE, the motion was agreed to. Sir H. HARDINGE next moved, " That a sum not exceeding 283,1981.65. Id. be granted to his Ma jesty to defray the charge of disembodied militia of the United Kingdom, for 1828." The Right Hon. Gentleman observed, that this sum was voted under an Act of Parliament, and could not at present be reduced, but he did hope that a reduction would be made next year. Mr. S. RICE admitted that this expence was tin der the authority of an Act of Parliament. But much of this large expence might have been saved. This militia had cost the country 2,500,0001. in the last twelve years, and really no adequate value was given for it. The expence was under three heads— training and exercise, enrolment of men, and expence connected with their effective strength. First, as to training, there had been only three trainings in the lasi 12 years, which had cost the country a large sum each. tie asked what possible benefit the service could have Derived from these trainings in twelve years ? And . iet those three trainings had cost the country upwart:.! of 300,0001. If the train ing and exercise were, as he thought must be admit ted, not required, of what was the balloting and enrolment ? In the metrop o li s and the adjacent counties, ballotting was a system of :mere fraud and perjury. He believed that if the militia were called out in the districts he had mentioned, no available force could be obtained. The balloting causcd an annual expense of 24,0001., besides occasioning e cry considerable trouble to the Home and Foreign Offices, and the Lords Lieutenant of counties, by correspondence and other duties. He now came to the permanent strength of the force. Any person who looked at the present strength of the militia staff must be satisfied th a t it was grea ter than was. requisite. By the statute of the 57th of Geo. 111., a power was vested in the Crown for reducing the militia staff. Immediately after the passing of that' statute, Lord Sidmouth, then Secretary of State for the Home Department, proceeded to effect a reduc tion. He (Mr. Rice) was desirous that Govern ment should receive from Parliament a similar dis cretionary power. He would now say one word with respect to the Irish militia. A more prepos terous job than the present establishment of the Irish militia staff had never received the sanction of Parliament. In Ireland there was no ballot and no training; the expense of the staff, however, was greater than in England. The service in Ireland was merely a source of patronage to the colonels of the regiments. It was their custom to form their men into bands for the entertainment of their friends at their mansions. He did not complain of the taste for pomp which those gentlemen displayed, but he did not think it right they should indulge it at the public expense. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER requested the Hon. Member to recollect that when he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) was eon bnect-ed with the Government of Ireland, he intro duced 'a Bill for the reduction of the staff. Tile Hon. Member proposed that Government should take from Parliament authority to deal with the militia as they might deem proper. He did not think it would be right in Government to accept each a power. It had been urged, that when there was no training there could be no use for the ballot. The use of the ballot was to place it in the power of government, always to have within reach, on the breaking out of a war, a number of men ready to act, which would render the regular force of the country immediately available.—( Hear.) The Mi litia service had already received and was still re ceiving the tuost attentive consideration of those whoSe duty it was to control the military expendi ture, and when they were prepared to present a plan for reduction, they would willingly accept froth the House power, to enable them to carry it i n t o effect. Sir J. WROTTESLEY could not go the ex - - tent of stating that the militia force ollf,rht ft . i he abolished; on the coritrisry t he thought it was of the utmost importance tt One security of the country on the breaking old of war. He thought that he could propose a plan which, without an?' additional expence, would h ave th e e ff ect O f training t h e rtii= litia in a more e ffi c i e nt mode of calling inanner than em out for Qla rj.i.l;9.—(The Hon. Baronet I).P.i re rroceeciell detail his plan; but we r°,`Jet thai Aehworary interruption in the gallery preVthited us from hearing his statement.)—He would, he proceeded to say, find employment for the militia in the conveyance of deserters (which at present was done by cavalry), and for many pur poses of police. He was disposed rather to render the force More efficient than to put it down alto gether. With respect to retrenchment, he must express his sorrow at seeing the present Session come to a close without the adoption of any effec tive reduction. Colonel WOOD said, it was not desirable to break down a fence like the militia, which was capable of being called into active service at a short notice. If war were to take place with France,now that the facilities of steam navigation were so ex tended, the militia would be indispensable. It might he thought, be desirable to give Government the l i power of suspending the ballot, but even that should not be done lightly and as a matter of course, for it had been before refused by Parliament on the ground of its being unconstitutional. The remarks of the Hon. Member opposite (Mr. Rice) with respect to the supposed insufficiency of the militia corps in the neighbourhood of the metropolis bad not the slightest foundation in fact. He was Colonel of a corps which consisted of 1,200 men, and he had that morning asked his adjutant hew many men would be likely to turn out, if called on. The adjutant replied he had no hesitation in saying that 1,000 n-pen would assemble in the course of a few days. This corps was perhaps the most difficult to assemble in the whole kingdom.—(Hear.)—The reduction he would be inclined to propose would be with respect to corporals, who appeared to be the least service able part of the force; but he was not quite sure that the number of serjeants had not already been reduced too low. He thought that the Irish staff should not be allowed to stand on its present footing. In the English service there was one corporal for every 40 men, and in the Irish one to every thirty men only. (Mr. Hume said" one to no men at all.") Mr. WARBURTON said, that the expence of the volunteers, added to that of the militia, had amounted, during the last 11 years, to 5,410,000/. or about 490,0001. a year. He requested gentlemen to consider whether it was worth while to keep up that enormous expence to guard against the possible event of our being taken by surprise with respect to hostilities. Mr. Alderman WOOD wished, as a representa tive of the city of London, to draw the attention of the Right Hon. the Secretary at War to the state of the Staff of its military force. There had been two regiments of militia for the city of London, but it seemed that government thought one was equal to two, and therefore reduced them to one. Con sidering how the Staff of that corps was constituted, with a bounty of 51. per man for a service of five years, he was apprehensive there would be some difficulty in finding them in cases of sudden emer gency. (A laugh.) He believed all London was rejoiced at the reduction, and he hoped this very imposing force would in the same spirit, be kept up merely as a skeleton regiment, through motives of economy. (A laugh.) Sir H. HARDINGE thought that frequent train ings were preferable as to the production of discip line, provided the bodies so trained were small, than parading a whole regiment for a longer time together. The subject of the reduction of the expense depen dent on this head of our military establishment had been before Government, and considerable progress had been made in forming an estimate, whereby a considerable saving would be made. I'le hoped the reduction might be effected before the next Session of Parliament. (Hear, hear.) In one department alone the reduction had been from 500,000/. to 284,000/., since the attempt made to retrench in that respect. In justification of the anxiety of Go vernment to keep this force always effective, he would remind the House that when the war broke out in 1803, so suddenly, seven days had not ex pired ere the garrison and dock-yard duty were performed throughout the country principally by the militia. (Hear.) Mr. HUME considered the estimate for the sup port of the militia excessive, in England, and more particularly so in Ireland. hi reply to an observation by the same Hon. Gentleman respecting the reiterated drawing of the same individuals to serve in the militia, Sir. H. HARDINGE was convinced such an oc currence, if so frequent as described, must be the effect of connivance and fraud; but he would pledge himself that no pains should be spared by him to meet and detect an imposition so dishonourable.— The vote was then agreed to.' Sir H. HARDINGE next proposed a vote of 7,500/. for the Hibernian Society School for soldiers' children. This vote was, after an explanation from the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER that such had, for these 27 years, been the practice, finally agreed to; as was also a vote of 1,800/, for the Hibernian Marine Society School. On the vote being proposed for granting 1,51 H), towards maintaining the objects of the Cork Insf tution, Mr. R. GORDON saw no reason why Cork, which was a wealthy city, should not maintain a literary society, if it chose to have one, at its own expense. Mr. S. RICE was of opinion, that unless the pre se:it Committee of Finance took up all these subjects an d reported on them as that of 1817 bad done, seriah: . n, it would not do its duty. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER should be very happy if the Finance Committee would take up the subject in its minute particulars. It was, boweyer, already in a train of gradual re duction. Mr. D. W. HARVEY believed that these dis cussions would be much better managed in separate committees. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that sufficient encouragement had been held out that retrenchment would be thk result of the labours of official persons as well is of this Committee, by the circumstance that this branch. of the estimate's for Ireland had been reduced front 670,000/. to 302,000/.—(Hear.) Lord MORPETH should move, as an aMend ment, that the vote be reduced from 1,600/. to 1,0001. Mr. HUME secolitled the amendment. Mr. NORTH was apprehensive if the' reduction was so sudden, the institution woLild be 'deprived of means to defray the salaries of the professors who now acted as lecturers in the institution. Re hoped the Noble Lord would, for these reasons, withdritw his amendment. Lord MOV.PETH felt the appeal of the Hon. and Learned Member insufficient to induce him to alter his intentiot; to press the amendment. Mr. BERNAL remarked, that still 1,00(►'. a-year ‘vould be left to defray the salaries of prafessors, who only amounted to four in number at )0/. per annum, with a ery cost iderable surplus ovr. Lord W. POULETT supported the amend- ment for the reduction, which he considered, under the circumstances, extremely moderate. The Committee proceeded to a division, Ivheil there appeared For the Ainendnient. ..... Against it Majority —4O The House then resumed—the Report *as brought up, and ordered to be taken into qtrthei• consideration on Monday NEW SOUTH WILES DILL. 26 .66 Mr. HUSKIS SON moved tiNtl4 9‘1.5e resOlve itself into a Coiiiiiii!Ake Upon this sir J. MACKINTOSH then rose, and after alluding to the various changes that had taken place In tine Colonial Office, said that the objects embraced in the motion of which he had .given notice were embodied in the , following renelutionr, t 4 Thieh should noisy take the liberty to read, as the foundation for those arguments with which he should afterwards trouble the House. The first resolution which he should propose was, " That it be an instruction to the Committee to receive a clause for the immediate establishment of trial by jury in New South Wales I , and Van iieman's Land (excepting the penal set tlement for offenders there convicted), and for directing the Governor and Council of each Colony respectively, to frame regulations for that purpose, respecting the number and qualifications of jurors either in the whole Colony, or in any districts which may seem to them to require modification." The second resolution was to this effect—" That it be an instruction to the Committee to receive a clause to provide for the election of one-third of the legisla-. tive councils of both the said Colonies (till assem blies shall be called by his Majesty), to be chosen for five years, by all persons enjoying a clear yearly income of 1001., who shall have been free inhabi tants for three years, and to direct. the Governor and present Council to make such regulations as they think fit, respecting the time, place, and other circumstances of the election of such members." It appeared by a late census, that in New South Wales there were 25,000 free Englishmen, all of whom would be eligible to act as jurors. He saw no reason why those Colonies should differ from other Colonies, and why the blessings of the British Constitution should be withheld from them, while other parts of his Majesty's foreign possessions enjoyed those blessings.— The only way to introduce a reformatory system, if he might use the term, and to make those colonies one grand penitentiary, would bete afford to the in habitants the means of relieving themselves from the stigma which had been cast upon them. The Hon . . and Learned Gentleman proceeded at some length to point out the advantages which would arise by the introduction into New South Wales of the two measures to which he had referred, namely, the right to elect Representatives and the trial by Jury. The great body of the settlers were already acquainted with the di, ies which, as jurors and elec tors, they would have to fulfil, and consequently the present time was that which should be seized upon to afford them those advantages which they were entitled to receive. But if those measures were de layed to an indefinite hereafter, the present popula tion would grow less and less, and a new race would spring up, who would neither understand nor be capable of appreciating the blessings of the Bri tish freemen.—(Hear, hear.)—lf those institutions were delayed, a blind civil war, or the total loss of the colonies, must follow. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman then alluded to the feuds which existed in New South Wales between the " emancipa tionists," as they called themselves, and the non• emancipated. Now nothing, he conceived, could have a greater tendency to soften down asperities, and blend men together, than when they were in the habit of acting together in different situations of society. Excepting Mr. Bigg, there was no autho rity against the introduction of those institutions : opposed to his evidence, there was the testimony of Governor Hinton, and also that of the late Gover nor-General Macquarrie, who was justly called the father of the colony, and who, in his report to Loud Bathurst, in 1825, stated that there was a sufficient body of freemen in those colonies competent to perform the duties, not only of jurors, but electors. It might be said that Sir Thomas Bris bane, because devoted to science and philosophy, was not a competent witness upon such a question. It was true that Queen Elizabeth said that " Mr. Bacon," as she called him, was too much of a wit to make a good lawyer; but, however true the ob servation might be generally speaking, it was about as just in the instance of the great Bacon, as it would be to say that Sir Thomas Brisbane was an incom petent witness upon a question like the present, be cause he brought home a larger share of knowledge upon other subjects than fell to tlke lot of most men. Chief Justice Wilde and Mr. Justice Ford had also given it as their opinion, that the trial by jury would work well in New South Wales, and they laughed with scorn at the idea that this colony was not as ripe as any other to partake of the benefits of a free constitution. The partial introduction •of English institutions into immediate practice was the only pledge of a real intention on the part of the Govern ment to introduce them more completely in the end. The Hon. Member for Hertfordshire said, in refer ence to his ( Sir J. Mackintosh's) moderate proposal, " would you set a boy of 14 at perfect liberty, and grant him all the freedom which you would give a man ?" He certainly would not adopt that course, but neither would he imprison his son, at the age of 14, in a monastery—allow him to remain there till he had reached the height of his passions, and then let him loose suddenly to be ruined by the violence . of those passions. In an able anonymous essay upon Milton, the supposition that a nation could not be ripe for liberty was very ingeniously opposed. The author said that it reminded him of the story of the lamb which sagaciously resolved never to go into the water until it had learned to swim. He, however, , although struck with the whimsical ingenuity of the L illustration, still maintained a different opinion. On the first resolution being put, Mr. HUSKISSON wished most sincerely to see the population of New South Wales in the perfect enjoyment of the advantages resulting from trial by jury, and an elective assembly, on the same principle as that which was so successful in its operation in England. But the question was, whether they could at present be so introduced under all the peculiar circumstances now attendant on the state of society in that colony ? He thought not. There was in fact little difference between the proposition of the Right lion. Gentleman and his own. The one (Sir J. Mackintosh) wished for the immediate in troduction of trial by jury, giving the governor a qualifying power of suspending it in any local dis trict according to his discretion. The other pro posed that it should be suspended for the present, but gave a power to the governor gradually to extend the system, according as circumstances might admit of it, The Right Hon. Member had talked of the manlier in which he would gradually accustom an innocent boy of 14 years, brought up in a monastery, to the business of life, and the usages of the world. For his part, he could not perceive any similarity whatever between such a boy and the population of New South Wales, two-thirds of which had been sent forth, not from a ►monastery, but from Newgatc, condemned to 14 years' of punishment for their aggressions against the civil and moral interests of their fellow-subjects.—(Laughter.)—The average of the inhabitants was one man to 20,000 acres; and society, he need scarcely add, . was on a footing quite different from the public of this country. Would an Englishman, who went out to the country possessed of wealth, character, and education, choose to have his.life and liberty exposed to the decision of a jury, nine or ten of which were convicted crimi nals.—(llear, hear.)--He was satisfied, from the official inquiries which he had felt it duty to in stitute, that nothing would so mach tend t. deter capital awl respectable members of society from colony, as the establishment of trial by Jury in its existing condition. The species of trial now in operation there appeared to give the completest satisfaction, whatever might be its effects.— As the duration of the Bill was to be seven years, he gave sufficient earnest of his wish hot to inter fere with the future introduction of all the inglitit tions Which this, cottntry at present enjoyed. 'With t•eSpee't ib electiOn of a Legislative Council, he Wished the Rigid; fibril Oitritlernan to obseive, that the present Bill went aAO towards Unwitting the privilege. He should persevere •in recommending the OriOinal measure, with a clause empowering the Govetnoi to Ofend Trial by Jury in certain cases, and also requiring that on the enatitthtii daily new Statute, ,he should make a declaration of the :± . t;, , nt British law obtained in the .Colony. The Right Hoh; dentjerrian hid expressed himself desirous of having a Sele& Coininittee appointed on this subject. He wished, howe'. er, to rind that he had also taken an interest in the state of Canada, and obtained a Committee for the purpose of itiquiry , That Committee, notwithstanding, had not been fairoUred with either the connsel of the Right Hon. Gentleman, of tli6 light of his counte nance, as far as he could understand, from that hour to this.—(Laughter.) Mr: D. GILBERT thought it impossible that the usages of the constitution could be imparted at mice in their fullest extent to such a country as New South Wales. After a few words from Mr. Hume, Mr. S. Wort ley, Mr. Warburton, Sir M. W. Ridley, and Mr. H. Twiss, Sir J. MACKINTOSH said he should not press his amendments to a division ; they were then put and negatived. The House then went into Com mittee on the Bill. Several verbal amendments were proposed and agreed to. Mr. HUME inquired whether the clause confining the selection of jurors to officers of the sea and land service would be retained in the Bill. Mr. HUSKISSON said, that jurors would be also selected from the officers on half-pay. The remaining clauses were agreed to, after which the House resumed, arid the Report was ordered to be received on Monday. The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at Half-past Two o'clock. OF THE MAJOI , F THE SECOND READIN , AMENDMENT DILL. Alcock, T. Gye, F. Baring, F. Herries, Rt. Hn. J. C. Batley, C. H. Hume, Joseph Blake, Sir F. Irving, J. Calvert, John Jephson, C. 0. Capel, John Jermyn, Earl Courtenay, T. P Kennedy, T. F. Chandos, Marquis of King, Hon. R. (Cork) Davies, Col. Lumley, J. S. Doherty, John Marshall, J. Drummond, Home M'Leod, J. R. Easthope, J. Monck, J. B. Ebrington, Viscount North, J. H. Fortescue, Hon. G. Nugent, Lord Fyler, T. B. Owen, Sir E. Goulburn, Rt. Hon. Palmerston, Vise. Philips, Sir G. Philips, G. OF FIFTY IN FAVOUR ()FIVE USURY LAWS Pigot, G. F. Planta, J. Protheroe, Ed. Rae, Rt. Hn. Sir W. Robinson, George Smith, W. Talinash, Hon. F. Trant, W. H. Villiers, T. H. Warburton, H. Whitmore, W. W. Wilson, Sir R. Wortley, Hon. J. S. Wood, Ald. Wood, J. TELLERS. Martin, J. Thomson, C. P. Gilbert, D. ,ITY THE SUM OF 171/. 125., ERNOR OF DARTMOUTH IR GARRISONS. Ridley, Sir M. W. Stewart, John Tavistock, Marquis Thomson, C. P. Warburton, H. Western, C. C. Whitmore, W. W. Wilbraham, G Wood, J. Wrottesley, Sir J. LIS . OF THIRTY-EIGHT ON THE PAY FOR THE Y CASTLE, ZE DEDUCT Bankes, H. Baring, A. Bernal, R. Blake, Sir F. Burrell, Sir C. Burdett, Sir Francis Carter, J. Clive, E. B. Colborne, N. R. Crompton, S. Davenport, E. D. Duncannon, Visc. Ducane, Peter Fazakerley, J. N. 1' OF THE MINOR. ME QUESTION THAT 'EAR TO TIIE CIVIL GOVT 'ED FROM THE VOTE FOI Gordon, R. Heathcote, G. J. Hobhouse, J. C. Howard, Henry Hume, Joseph Labouchere, H. Lambert, J. S. Lester, B. L. Leycester, It. Loch, J. Moberly, J. Macdonald, Sir Jas. Palmer, C. F. Price, R. TELLER. Graham, Sir J. LIS' OF TWENTY-SET EN WI REDUCE THE GRANT 1,5001. TO 1,0001. Blake, Sir F. Bernal, R. Bentinck, Lord G. Cave, R. 0. Dickinson, W. Ellison, C. Graham, Sir J. Guest, J. J. Gordon, R. Hume, Joseph T OF THE MINOR HO VOTED FOR LORD Ml ' FOR THE CORK LITERA lORPETH'S MOTION TO k.RE INSTITUTION FROM Harvey, D. W. Poulett, Hon. W. F, Hobhouse, J. C. Pendarves, E. W. Kennedy, T. F. Palmer, C. Fyshe King, R. (Cork) Rice, T. S. (Lester, B. L. Stewart, Sir M. Langston, James Warburton, H. Lloyd, T. Wrottesley, Sir J. Macintosh, Sir J. Monck, J. B. TELLER. Osborne, Lord F. Morpeth, Viscount PARLIAMENTARY PAPER. TANK NOTES. An Account of the total number of Notes of the Governor and Company of the Bank of England, under the value of 51., which has been issued during each and every Week from the 12th of May, 1828, until Saturday preceding the 15th of June,l 1828; and also the total number of Notes under the value of Si. actually in circulation at the close of the business on every such Saturday, pursuant to Act '7th Geo. IV., cap. 6. Number ot Notes of £1 issued. Amount in Circula tion of Notes under the value of £5. Both inclusive. From May 12 to May 17... Nil May 17 390,249 From May 19 to May '24... Nil May '24 '07,996 From May 26 to May 31... Nil May 31 396,572 From June 2to June 7... Nil June 7 393,046 From June 9to June 1t... Nil June 14 394,002 N. B. No other Notes under the value of 5/. have been issued. (Signed) WM. DAWES, Acct Gen. Bank of England. June 16, 1828. Prince ESTERHAZY, the Austrian Ambassa dor, Count D'OFALIA, the Spanish Minister, and the Right Hon. STRATFORD CANNIING transacted business yesterday with the Earl of ABERDEEN, at the Office of the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs. Captain FULLER, R.N., of his Majesty's ship Wellesley, nephew of Lord HEArHFIELO, has been promoted by the LORD HIGH ADMIRAL to the rank of Post Captain. On ‘Vcdnesday last, being the Anniversary of the Battle of Waterloo, the Cabinet Brigade was re viewed by Field-Marshal the Duke of WELLINGTON, in the rear of the Treasury Chambers. After the Battalions had been separately inspected, the Brigade went through several difficult manoeuvres, which, considering the recent formation of the Corps, were executed with a precision highly Creditable. The Hero of Waterloo was pleased to compliment them en the occasion, and expressed himself particularly gratified with their soldier-like. appearance. ' The Whitehall Regiment (or Duke's own) was the only Battalion that appeared in the new Cabinet uniform, as the Army Tailors have not had time to complete the me tamorphose of the whole. This distinguished‘Regiment cut a moat noble figure in their new clothing, which is splendid in the extreme. 'ln the course of the review the Foreign Regiment, under their new Commandant, executed by itself, some movements from the German School of Tactics, which were, of course, much admired. 'I he Colonial Regiment, which, under a former Com mander, had fallen into the back ground, appeared to he making great progress towards perfection, a circumstance very honourable to all parties, when we reflect on the many changes that have recently taken place in this corps, and on the short time they have had the advantage of their present gallant and experienced head. The Exchequer, or Rifle Regiment, appeared also for the first time under their new Commandant, who, though inexperienced in that branch of the service, put the Battalion through its complicated manoeuvres in good style. These troops skirmished with their usual skill. That fine body of men, the Home Bat talion, with its orange facings, could net escape the notice of the bystanders; and it was observed that their com manding Officer had acquired a more martial air since he had come under the present Commander-in-Chief, though he certainly did not appear quite so much at home in his military evolutions as some of the other Commanders. The ground was kept by the Royal' Sovereign Hussars, who, from their brilliant uniform, attracted the particular notice of the crowd. They were commanded by an Officer lately removed from the Rifle Battalion, but who has shown himself better adapted for the Sappers and Miners. This Officer, however, seemed quite au fait in the duty allotted to him for the day, the qualifications for which he, doubtless, inherited from the late respectable Commandant of the Westminster Light Norse. This corps seemed quite elated at the prospect of their approaching contest with the Country Banks, whose light troops they expected to beat out of the field with little loss en their part. The Review concluded with a feu de joie in honor of the recent victory obtained over the Liberal Forces ; and, after advancing to the general salute, the battalions filed off to their respective barracks, their bands playing the " March of Intellect." The Duke wore the new Cabinet uniform, and was mounted on a superb charger at least seventeen hands high. We do not remember to have seen his Grace looking better, or its more buoyant spirits ;on the conclusion of the field-hay he was observed to ride up to the ranks, and to shake bands cordially with some of his old companions in arms. Among the company present we noticed Lord ELDON and the Archbishop of CaNxennuav, the former of whom appeared, Out of com pliment to the Duke, in the unattached uniform, and the latter in his new full dress regimentals. Immedia ely after the Review his Grace the. Field Marshal pro; eded to w oo lwi t t,• ; where he witnessed a display of the 7 , a , prac tice of the apregivnt Minter-Gener&l of the Ordn ace, for transmitting despaT.,2 7 es or letters by rockets, al of the new invented shell for bi..lying up Constitutions. FOREIGN' INTELLIGENCE. FRENCH PAPERS. ott the Gazette de France of Thursday.) " RN); lg.—The accounts from t 9/ theatre of war received ,to-day, are not of mush Or portance.. The Russian army waits for the p a ssage of the Dimulie till the water has subsided. TroopS continue tel It sent towards Bosnia and Servie not, say the Russians, to organize an insurrectio s there, but to protect the inhabitants of those pr,°: vinces against the excesses which the Turks mi ght carnrnit to; force them to the defence of the territohi The Emperor i 'oho, as we knew before, had gol l to Odessa on the g'ith, to see the Empress, left tb r town again on the 29th, to return to head-quarte o " «bile his Majesty was there, news .was re' ceived of an advantage gained by . the Russian fil l before Anapa, where a Turkish fleet was capto r that was conveying provisions, ammunition, 0 2 troops to the fortress : 1,200 persons and r standards were taken. " Anapa had been bombarded for thirteen day' and the suburbs were entirely destroyed. Mettle, time, General Paskewitsch was marching agajo r Erzerum. " The Marquis de Caraman has set out to-day 6 4 Vienna, to take leave of the Emperor of Austrist and to receive back his credentials. It is said thl o that he will remain at the Court of Vienna till 0 6 arrival of his successor, the Duke de Laval 3100 morency, who will soon repair to his post. (From the Messager des Chambres of June is.)' " PARIS, JUNE 18.—The ordinances respectioi tie ecclesiastical schools, which we published yet' cerday, have excited—we will not say the opposifie' which is a regular and Parliamentary thi ng , but the rage of the Gazette de France and the au° dienne. The King's Government will not reply is such attacks, which are beneath it; we only inter° to demonstrate, in a series of articles, that the of dinances which have provoked those two journals to arguments which are rendered ridiculous by theif violence, are conformable to the public law of Of kingdom, to the maxims of the church of Franco and that the prelate, one of his Majesty's Minister]l who signed the Ordinances, has no more betray the duties of the episcopacy (we use the very pion! temperate, and dgcorous language of the Qt r dienne), that the Keeper of the Seals has violated dif laws of the kingdom, the execution of which is coo' fided to him by the wisdom of his Majesty." A FRENCH FUNDS.—Five per Cents. 104 f. 40 e. ; Thly per Cents. 70f. 40c. ; Bank Stock, 1,9 0 ; Naples St ocl(' 75f. sc. ; Royal Spanish Loan, 73f. • Hayti.jan Loon) T: a b. Exchange on London—one month , 25f. 50c. ; to" - months, 25f. 20c. COOK'S LIFE PRESERVER. Sir,—On passing yesterday morning your establislone irj in Long-acre, my attention was attracted by two or thl vehicles being fitted with an apparatus called Cook's IL Preserver. The person in attendance showed we principle on which this apparatus acted, and so fully 0 .. . i 11y vinced was I that, was such apparatus fitted to some of stage coaches (particularly those that run at the speed 1 13 n., now do), it Would prevent numerous accidents. But, the reason I address you on this subject is that on tte ge ,"; ling last Tuesday by the new coach, the Eclipse, f, 10 ; Southampton to London, a most serious accident was haat to have taken place by one of the wheel horses start ( 1 1 1 the top of a very steep hill, just before we got to Begnj with such speed down hill that the coachman, with the of myself and two other passengers, could not, with all tb d power we had, stop the homes, all of which had, before W f f got half down the bill, started off, by the splinter bar s ou t pole knocking against them, and but for another hill 04 , we came to I think we never could have stopped then; every passenger expected no other than that the vs% would have overturned, and Ido think th a t stage coo i 1 proprietors would do themselves and the public justice 1 they were to adopt this principle of yours to their coals; If this communication is of any service to you, you are liberty to make what use you please of it. I am sir, your moat obedient servant, London, June 20, 1828. H. BUCIIAN , To Lieut. Cook, Long-acre. MR. LANE'S LARGE PICTURE OF JOSEPH'S VISION. We have pleasure in inserting the following letter from James Northcote, Esq. one of the oldest o f the Academicians, to Mr. Lane, on the subject of the above-named work of art : Dear Mr. Lane,—l have seen your picture of the "Os!! of Joseph, which at first sight so surprised me that at on I gave it unbounded and unlimited approbation,—lsaw it was the effusion of a pure unadulterated mind. picture has a solemn and religious dignity wholly new paintings in England, and seems to perfume the fetid 1 '1'; mosphere of the present cloudy air of British art. il l gave gave me great and heartfelt pleasure, because I hope it gr. have a tendency to curb and regulate the childish, if " vicious:taste, which at this time prevails, and that may be made ashamed of the depravity of taste which eer p : to ride triumphant, and not to be captivated only by so d ' is vulgar or meretricious, by sickly affected sentiment , the disgusted and hackneyed display of modern battles in bloodshed. of The chasteness of your Madona is a rich exatoP e female purity and loveliness, rnd in point of execution, 01;0' without any disadvantage en your side, stand in cotoPet it _j with Guido or the Carracei. Your codduct of light 7, shadow in the picture, in my opinion, is anitant skilful. the whole is a nima' . s by a fine feeling, and possesses great originality and o f the m Indeed, oa most t r s ri n h h c e i e c r h e yI picture did hop e h n it a maai" expe ct w do e r ; yionu the a all vent ion. h'cll mechanical han goo i :/ : : you so snstly deserve; and remain, dear Sir, your in°6 sincere friend and very humble servant, • Argyll-place, May 24. JAMES NORTIICOI' The Duke Of CUMBERLAND returned town yesterday morning, from a visit to his Ma/sell the Royal Lodge, Windsor Park. The Duke and Duchess of CLARENCE g ale a splendid entertainment to a very numerous party yeete ri day evening, at their residence in the Admiralty. The Duke and Duchess of CLARENCE, ile ; companied by the same party who went with then ASTLEY'S Theatre on Thursday evening, returned to i C residence in the Admiralty, after the performance , /111 ",,' an elegant supper was laid out for the Royal and agi"." guished party. The Duke of WELLINGTON arrived in tai: yesterday morning from the Royal Lodge, Windsor tai: His Grace afterwards proceeded to the Treasury, and _,,, acted business in the course of the da y with the Archnt e of CANTERBURY, the Duke of Noarnustszar..o loo the Earl of ABERDEEN, and the CHANCELLOR of the CIMILTER. , F ASHIONABLE ARRIVALL— Th e ia.t.d ths tli9 and Marchioness of Cleveland, i n s t ,..l„ m „„ , s . 4qu ars; Duchess of Bedford, in St. James's-Square; prisf!..1 rr Princess ; Lady Clayton and Richard Clayton, Esq. at . 1) 7,:t1s Hriotnecl,eufroLmietvheen' fromCott Earl Cowper's seat, Pantt age, near Marlow ; Lady Eli° at - Forbes at ditto ; J. S. Manley, Esq. and Mrs. blaoleY„:„, ditto ; A. S. Graeme, Esq. and Mrs. Graeme, at ... A .. ; from Brighton ; the Rev. J. Edwards and Mrs. Edlr s ' 1 :,. a t ditto, from Norfolk ; Th omas C re w e , Esq. Mrs. C i r c e and family, at ditto, from Staffordshire; the Re. ' l go r rardof and Mrs. Girardof, at ditto ; Colonel Bruce, Bruce, and family, at Marshal Thompson's Hotel, C al o fi d dish-square; J. F. Schroder, Esq. C. Schroder, the Misses Schroder, at ditto, from Willey Park; "Trot, Dent, Esq. at ditto ; Edward Frankland, Esq. IL ditto ; Gilbert Coventry Master,. Esq. at ditto; Vi• ti - „ - t 1, Phil*, Esq. at ditto; the Misses Keating, at Batts' siv-e1 Dover street; H. Hill, Esq. at ditto; Major P r att,, ", ditto; J. Dolby, Esq. at ditto; H. Buton, Esq. at &t n. Mr. and Mrs. Watkinson, and family, at ditto; gr. Mrs. Helve, in Langham-place, from Bath ; CAP" Egerton, in Sackville:street: DEPARTURES.—The Bishop of Bath a" Wells, and family, for the Palace, at Wells; Mr. C alor l from Hanover-square, for Wareham, Dorsetshire; CAIO Granby Calcraft - , from Curzon-street, for Warehao,fi. Charles Palmer, Esq. and Mrs. Palmer, from Hake!, Hotel, for Huntingdon ; Madam Eyre and Mies Eyr e, fro ' ditto, for Paris ; Sir John Pollen, Bart. and Lady Paco, from Marsh , 1 Thompson's Hotel ; Richard Gough , $., and John L. Chetwode„ Esq. from ditto ; the Earl of more and sons, from Batta' Hotel ; Captain and Bulkeley, and family, from ditto, for Bognor; the 10,:os Mr. Watson, from ditto ; Mr. arrl Mrs. Ashley, f'," ditto. .....g,.,...,••• iler ftkk°c C t e ß n i t C . R IC ;(1 'iSer Cent. Can ' , Per Cent..., 13"t6,11W - -ent Net L. A r c ~ndi sk i , 4 " a k unt o II ltt Cts or ro B Os trian Bond, p h *Ulan Bond Ayres Bomi P t L' 3l Zbian BOA Om. ca._ ---41 sh 3 r - 7„k bon P d e a bi o - -z0825 wnala 33(;r; l'alciss 4 o_ T n •• ,,, CNtex. IN `T t ish Iron 31 4 1 , rnbianMi C h ned m I . ?W k irt Stoc Z._la, 3 per , thZl 3 tock, 3) , New.... e"t Cent. /t o ' tieb. th q t Yal Canal SI ant Canal h. beb 4pc Lc dm nt* m erp Krkfort on irZfrtburgh 1 1 7:1 , 1a effect, 1 461 do c am r2d teviit"a ' A ttired. 0 Itureril 0 Buenos .1 Dublin " Flande France Gotten ?titan V ' "!4 b sf -,,_ SATie addi yesterday 4 r ° Unee fu, ' t appears I n t ess what . 0 Sat urc 1 r oclarn a t \ , p h° are it ° elarnat 1 :Y will 741 GuEL' !?ntempl a e 111 utters to a te entire i i lb t ' i l-I , l' e e i 4 of o a :n Army the 04 ' th e Infa 44it appear, e offered oti, tt 4tr perm 4he Roy Iti lit k h arged .. the R i l uNit 11 , i l lt Pardon the Infa ' t'Julia 12 i er,_ . the al "tied J. (741 Fa ro, iv : , oit , I al ts FThis are. 0. This t illat M a i t l Zghao c bu vat t4 l( ition, btajest mte in hi t 5, a bt tr ao a a cit: d u *at si wi 1 IA t0 , 1.1745: 1V e i:v,44,:44: :: (7. : ),,at a n i:je l aon e t ititan al tdnher, g t: 1 th at th tiv a %ftt s u ti A • te t"l74 4141: 4 4 The hat raked, h 4 re titing to ' tt st, I ttd IM ; tl b 11..1 e _ fo I `a 9uitt~ th e Condei Pe-sr, th, sa, ANO'