The Sun. — London, England, 1841-02-25 00:00:00

ME :0 li I 0 of ze to a n• the any h a d P oll ade law ;rd. itle big be sens „pa bich ,ive• '0 of rtioll tbis king oniu :do° stig" I nd•-• t th s • le er %WI to ° ly rou x' I el' plea , It chi': rson" f tb ° la ? 'I, or, 3 re' 'Ca r ' ) pOr'' __ ;~; _EV NING E DITION sflitueecy was established by the Act 10 George IV., the tr,r(rst ch°l ' l s'heirq bound t o rave that he posse-Led an in - charges/ the year'y value } of 10/. above the rent and ~h ic to which he was liable ; and in the oath ' he was required to take ho w as called upon I t ° state that he verily believed that a solvent I l e e 4all _ t C ould pay 10/. over and above the rent with which ~ ..as elisrged, Matters continued so until the ', vc : l ' l g of the Reform Bill in 1832 ; and no one . dreamt of disturbing that system ever th franchise no one • ought of restoring the 404. freehold . ia Ireland, the Reforna Bill, The Hon. and Learned Member for Dohlin, i s !l the course of the discussion which had taken place on a the 40 y raised his bad occasional! voice in favour t},e ~, s. freeli lders, but had found no echo whatever in _ House ; and no one till the present moment bad ever t . e il , ou o h tf e or disturbing the settlement that bad been come toe ably rbc violating the pledge which had most uu i the been given. It remained for the Noble Lord, under . reurnstances which had been so frequently brought pi et I y Lntler the attention of the House, to introduce this most destroy the I te, Porta r , t , d . n most startling measure, which would com pletely corn present system, and which wou . , violate the pledge that had been given at the time Ireland' Would not restore the 40s. freehold franchise to ; l but would establish a constituency of a very info -I:ir, de scription , and which would place matters . on an in- Dat i m,i3' "Verse footing than they were at the time of the i t e - 4 1 ,g„... 0 f the Roman Catholic Re;ief Bill.—Hear, ,g-*/ He would ask whether it were jest and proper that at Members who had voted for that measure, uncle r the uran . of t , nuance that it was to be accompanied by the esti • ac ion be the 403. freeholders, and that the t wo systems were to established togetherand ain perma.lently atta ched were to real . de,di n ..0 each . other—he would ask whether it was d eser galrly with them to introduce a measure . . of that le, ? t P t fce, and to call upon the House to pass it into a the It had been said that doubts existed with regard to t e proper construction of the freehold and leasehold in tj,rettit: under the Irish Reform Act ; and his Hon. Friend, ? wentber for Shrewsbury, stated that he had made t e lsate ; • alquiries on that (the Opposition) side of the a :lc,. and that he did not find any one who . could give th a a , r aitt opinion on the subject, and who (11 . (1 not express 4 . he e.ntertained some doubts of the propriety of the in eetretation_ 3 which he bad given. He (Mr. S.) should f n J ess that Le was astonished to hear that observation e r n - t a r t t he Hon. Member, for he bad unquestionably never • rtei sed d b . I of of , oy ou t wit I regard to the proper construe- Vers„ the words in the Irish Reform Bill. He had con stieL'faMiliarly and freely with lawyers on the subject, V I „,"` had never heard that they entertained any doubt on lie e h -a t t er• All of them—at least all of them with whom tii„,' ad "-. • • • " hear, hear," from the . e . In in communication—(.. hi t s e 's_t rial in of the same opinion. lt was he en certain opinion, and he was not afraid to avow that ,h - Oa or , r (1 , 0 0 doubt whatever that the statutes of the 10. the If e r gt, with regard to freeholds, and the statut .s of d *ere „ - rtu, Act with regard to freeholds and lea . sebol s, of n a r re cfsely the same, and that the interest required was to rep! illailar description. He should beg leave to observe, that I I to the Hon. Baronet the Member for Drogheda, ae !" °Pinions of Members of that House, or of the other be „ -e ,, , „ex pressed in the discussion on any Bill, shoul I not iter s Ted for the purpose of interpreting ir, because if that th e y ""e they could always get the construction for which 11‘Ivere contending. But when a Bill had passed both ses e - t es t a the Leeisla tore, and had received the Royal i f ih 4 e l l b + lt „ t hee became a subject for judicial decision, and faiesi . ,7 , not expressed this meaning so as not to be mis ‘"Y o ne e ' e dt it we their fsult ; but ho had never heard moat, to arguing the construction of an Act of Paelia in slut! quire what were the arguments urged at the ten d er 1 e 1 185 5 Under discussion in either House; that would 48 % - v tt improper course to adopt, and he should, there of enter his ti protest against ant part of the observe ions ! ver e a a''' ) ". Baronet the Member for Drogheda. It was let 4' l great mistake, which his Hon. Friend the Member aers, trewsbury had fallen into in common with other Morn tetins°,4ll3poSe that they were opposed on that (th 3 Gp ler th e ) side of the House to a certain test being applied alel a"' purpose of ascertaining the franchise. They Iho 1 4 t ue ali ht t 'objection that the poor-rate te . st . 4 d b g es I s e applied, provided it were under certain cir thfy ; k n ee% (and with such securities as would sad klbsta,7,sle, that they would obtain the real an i t ertai,; i s i f eualification.—( Hear, hear.) hisßu.t hew as %i n ,' th at his Hon. Friend, if he applied mind to the 4 4 1 , - ; Would see that it was impossib . le, with a poo . r- 1 t liailie l astion alone, that they could obtain that substantial rae nt cration which the y had a right to demand in a settle-- I ' l o,4 ° h ', t he eluest'on. Let that House just consider . for . a Ili a If ' what it was the Noble Lord proposed by his Bill. h ad, ,t,°,11: a nd Learned Friend, the Member for Exeter, fte'e;',",llUSual clear and lucid manner, shown that from So h -rli egt period of our Parliamentary history, a di t.nc hi „„ t p . al th , w aYa existed between the qualification for voters 141 ro t ,, a l t - ss. and the qualification for voters in towns and ight 4 7 8 that the one had been based on proper . ty, lial s i e t other on inhabitantcy or some corporate or munici lehut• That distinction had been preserved at the time tn ,, i th e t r e t es ."ing of the Reform Act; because, however they Imo le duffer with regard to the nature of the interest which "'lra Teholder was required to possess in order to qualify d lv il'el i " ° ) , vote, they must all agree that the into eat 41 41 -••a had was to be of a superior and different !id b P , t l l ° 4 from that which the voter in towns iuey :tughs was required to possess; and whether 4 -°' as a beneficial interest the profit to which tig hteh et succeed in making out of his property, or teh t heY took the solvent tenantcy test. till property 'lea, ''sfor the foundation of the qualification for coon see where as • h h and town a th-sy had nothing but p .npati_in oorougas and Learned fleed u;'• That distinction which his lion, ' s at s „' th e Member for Exeter, had so forcibly pointed qv / . the reserved at the time of the Reform Act ; hut un- N 4 Noble Lord's Bill it was altogether swept away. : . 'atle sa ; h i le Lard levelled everything—he removed (very t ' l say - L."4e made no distinction whatever, and, strange ;Ne n " his Bill were carefully ciamined it would be 70tinactuall laced the county voter on a lower ge lte - ,g thaa the vot y P f towns and bcroughs.—( Hear, hi R .) Let ers in or first _ . p'`ceti s „ them see, the place, what was the qua latiti;" which the Noble Lord rt quircd for the voter who 't,etipil; The Noble Lord proposed that persons : 0 414 e ss " under a lease for fourteen years any premises ;:ient'''oetititled to vote, provided he were rated to the i",, (1 i l t r ,'' 61 . Now let he House just see how unreal -op -w illthis substitution for the -o penly ._, . illusory was , d i rir e d ,weich county voters had hitherto been N le s "° Possess. r •Vhat was the interest which of the ~,t )h . L e e might have under the proposal l a - q 1 14, 1: " ? Whs nothing would be easier than for a s 'rain a i te ipt his land for a lease of fourteen years at . a i, Bl O 1 , rent of f,/ , 101. or °O/. arid to enter into a pri 'st tsr'ement '•- b '. ' h t h would introduce j ai with tae tenant t a . , 0 hithe land would clear, w . hi.° ho could 'lilts myth ,Ili eond't• that if the tenant did would hive a : 4 0 t ae a p e uter and take possession. Now Hon. Members :s re th at cci estomed to this subject were perfectly well old 4 lease of that description with such conditions id I. - rat e d , for the same term if years as if it were le , t e ll„ auk htee and unconditional ; and then let the House ~_% til„" sit tee in which that which was to be the basis "rty ca.uutY const't and the substitute for the pro w wh ich i uency, li 'Api a , the county voters were now supposed to possess, li t ti did nnt e the tenant. Why,refractory —if if ho were f re his p e , t etild, u "te according to the wishes c . , landlord, d 1 be t s ot tres s i on niter the process for re-entry, be deprive o . t r for nf ' The tenant might agree with his landlord, * ea ' n g hi t • 1 , agreed on be -1„„ a th e _ wishes, and paying the rent . le. b te a " 4 114 th but let him dieobey *- e the wi4hcs of his laed pn,tfce a at moment he might be deprived of his sub - . -d that expedient which bad been t ai kit i tied by Yet was the expeeicat 4( int the Noble Lord as a substitute far the hem ,,,s4 tin " st, and f tr d . -yr re or the proper , ty which a county voter in she te rit i goired to possess. But there was another- Old h 4 the qualification, and that was that the party 'a it 0 rate," r_ 4 4 , 1 , 4 ir th - to tne amount of Si, Let the House just tOord C effect of the provision. If the voter and the 4 r t ir siereepoUld find a Board of Guardians favourable to rat:,: ) t th e ',, tll eY might easily procure the insertion of a tt e 'l to th ' l tent of 51., and if the patty should have been et.ttll ford t attount although the holding might not be IN oY shillings, or one shilling, no person could 4 11 1 :rr t i oll th e r ~, ate, as no pet son was aggrieved by the Of : ti llg cn a higher rate for another than the ki a ';'' itnpi s a a worth.—( Hear, hear.) The grievance V t lelf o ,"Per rate would only be felt when a party was fiOn„ w het t er , n rat ed, or where another party was underrated : rlth - „ to o th ers Was overrated, there was no grievance t o 4 tli t :z - urs under the came rats., because it would fpm, if an w iish their burthens. Under the proposed sys ha tact', I t 00 should happen to be improperly put on t r th e a jlte l l ea e mune provision would continue in force ; and 11 01 ) ,,jee t ? lawyers and to gentlemen familiar with ,tea,l ey e ' ) ." he were not right in saying that in England es es " 4 of ~--„ dreamed of making objections to a rate by m ere - ee an Party beii.g overrated, and that it had never ewe, 4 to, rtuered by others as a grievance. Now, if that N al l of etast be very easy indeed with a favourable as r in the eardi 1 -ans. fur a party who bad no interest wbat iliakie to b e arid which he merely occupied, to cause his Bill ~ Nit upon the rate ; and once there, so long as hpil itti3 O jtkdo i ,..l oh , , , t., so long must it continue on it, for the ?irh a . , rl t.l" o „;••,," a t 'ne'l that most extraordinary provision. If a tai f r u of -`` have been placed on therate for 5/. although the i ke lte di GUardians appointed the very next year should, tre k itbr r ha rg* a their duty, feel satisfied that he had 1 41 11 : 1 14 or hi placed there, and should reduce the tt4te 4 , 0 4 a rating, still he would have a right, on paying Ns kr th e at ° f Sit—( Hear)—and he would not be remove is tt tr b Whole time that his lease would continue to I 'ifie th at was put forward s the principle which was t i t t l ti, r ,?re in establishing as eal and substantial quail 1114tt h e 111‘'oeuld, anything be more illusory ? Could any to 4 41 1 a t et r t e ,bftut d, as under the circumstances to apply 'At,/ the t , ei ,Tr the right of voting ? How was it possible 4 4 , whie jner in respect to property, or in respect to the kt k i t hiti e d , u,the amount of property was supposed to be li,k„!alt thoseWs systena afforded any security whatever tte4tta te the frauds, and these admissions of improper ‘rae Il ftli e ; fra nchise, which it was admitted on both th Imi, ouse had rendered some means necessary for . ste g V I 1 11 4 e badeta tuv t k system of registration in Ireland ? La 4 - 0 10. a o th e case of the household suffrage voters ~,q0 N ok , uoroughB. He would show that not only 14 0 ' 11 41 0a "Le Lord made no distinction between voters the Peet. arid voters in withto any 0,, tt .! . ejami ne.s. , n in boroughs, regard thats e a r :ldly r , 1 ." . : e 1 ? voters for counties, but h Na y ril l i n rce d the county voter en a lower footing 'tic,' noid i uorough. The borough voter was to in k ed b n g as Well the - He was to be t Y ti t y s i n as county voter. tries ega er ,, Ile of a rate of 5/. but he was required to o a lsi """ jury c c . d the ' • . l cess rates and t o ,. T ow, that 'St an municipal s 1 4 ',1 rat te r. Poor- did not apply to the poor-rate value it man 'son , ...rate was not a municipal cess or rate, t ' e lle, 'son, 411 1, F , Was a rate peculiar to Certain towns, ,tkat t, Th e at ' Learned Member for Dublin very well i A lt in ad was t jury cess extended all over . . t the said , that distinguished from the municipal Ito oe . Paitieul t t atu tt tequi red ar. All that the county voters e t , Ni t' t ho w 4,. to do would be to pay the poor-rate, and lio' ile ed to th e ui r ect Might be his poverty, he would then t p et % the slightestra Nobody supposed there had * 'etat v oter doubt witl t e • In R alt e r at i o n bore ph i regard to the qu t a o lifi s epaa nbltel„ 1 bothuo sr Il i ad yet the - c was . be short wh Ni b wher eas :, . 11 qua rfications. After this ere ,SC the r , u ,,,!", ut expedient to assimilate the mode of wag the'l2,lllC!itloas in boroughs to tbat of countie.," va Pedlene Y3 an d what would become of the beneficial interest of 'which the county voter was now to be possessed? The con=sequence of the measure woul Ibe quite alarming, and ii would be impassible that they could introduce a Bill of abut description into Ireland, without cxpcctir.g that them -e-ould be a demand made for the same privileges in Eeogland.—( Hear, hear.) They had alrea.ly been pressed evith that argument by the lion. Member for Kilkenny. The mischief which would follow from the introduction could never be realized ; and the hopes which they had raised, and which he was quite certain could never be realized, would only serve to give a new rallying cry to Ireland, and a new pretext f Hear.) He was astonished, therefore, to find the Government introduce such a Bill, and that their most distinguished Member, the Noble Lord the Secre tary for the Colonies, had become a disciple of that move ment party, whose sentiments, in 1839 and 1840, he had disavowed. Ministers might rest satisfied with this, that if they endeavoured to purchase a short and feverish ex istence by sacrifices of this description, they must have recourse to furClacr concession in order to prolong it, and that this was only lane step in advance in an indefinite progress in which 'they must yield claim after claim. The measure was so fraught with dangerous consequences that he could not be satisfied with giving a silent vote on the question ; and he would use his humble, but firm en deavours, in evury stage Pf the Bill—if it should have any future stage, which he trusted it would not—to defeat it by his most determined and decided opposition, Mr. C. BULLER felt it peculiarly agreeable to be cal'ed cn to address the House, when it had been brought to the cairn temper to which it must have been brought by the speech which they had just heard. The Hon. Member fin. Shrewsbury had very properly called upon the House to discuss the question in a spirit of candour, and to endeavour to make out seine measure which should be for the benefit of the country. He was inclined to re gret that a good deal of personal acrimony had been ex hibited during the course of the debate, and ho must, in fairness, admit that a great deal of it had been exhibited by Hon. Gentlemen on his own side of' the House.— (Hear, hear.) lie thought that the Noble Lord the Member for North Lancashire had really been hardly treated. Tharo were defects acknowledged on all hands as existing in the Irish system of registration. The Noble Lord had called the attention of the Government to these defects, he had asked them if they would bring in a Bill to remedy them. They did not bring in a all. Some remedy was required—(Opposition cheers)—and under those circumstances certainly the Noble Lord, who was he must city the cause of all the mischief and confusion which had happened in relation to the subject—(Cheers and laughter)—.was certainly justified in bringing his Bill be fore Parliament.—( Cheers from the Opposition.) He did not find fault with the Noble Lord for bringing in a Bill on the subject, but he did find fault with him for bringing in so very bad a Bill as the one brought in by him.— ( Cheers and laughter.) There was, however, ore great advantage which had accrued from this bad Bil of the Noble Lord's. It had compelled the Government to bring in a very good Bill.—(Loud cheers.) They were not now in the awkward position they occupied lai-t year, that whilst opposing the Bill of the Noble Lord opposite as being a remedy that was rather worse than the disease, they had no remedy of their own to bring forward. They , had now the satisfaction of being able to oppose the Go vernment Bill to the Bill of the Noble Lord. The Government Bill was complete in its essentials, and contrasted in its dwells most completely with the measure of the Noble Lord. It was prudent where the Noble Lord was rash—it was bold where lie was timid— it was explicit where be was obscure—it was straightfor ward where he was indirect—it was liberal where he was restrictive.—(Loud chccrirg.) The question for the House to decide was, which of the two they would choose. No doubt there were peculiar defects and peculiar evils at tending the Irish system of registration. But these evils were only the natural result of the Irish Bill, and if the Irish voter had been guilty of personation, of fraud, and of perjury, it seemed really to have been the intention of the Legislature to have induced him to the commission of these offences. Such provisions, so disgraceful to the Legislature, he bad never seen ; they seemed actually in. tended to tempt people to commit personatier. In the first place, all persons might register at a place at the great est distance from their own residence, and consequently where they would be least likely to be known. Then there was the system of certificates. Why, who had ever heard of sach a mode of evidence of the right of voting? It must have been invented by a pawnbroker or a turnpike-keeper.— ( Cheers and laughter.) Was it to be wondered at when this certificate gave the right of voting, and might be re newed year after year, that they should have fifteen per sons with fifteen certificates, all voting from the same property.—(" Hear, hear," from Lord Stanley.) " I like that cheer from the Noble Lord," continued the Hon. Gentlemen, because it shows his candour, fir observe it was an act of his own which has caused all these evils.— ( Cheers and great iaughter. ) Lord STANLEY—Oh no, it was an Act of George the Third. Mr. C. BULLER would tell the Noble Lerd, that when he. brought forward his Irish Reform Act ho undertook to give a good system of registration. Now the detects of the system under the Act of George were as obvious to the eye of reason before as after the Reform Act.—(" Hear, hear," from the Opposition.) What on earth did they mean by that cheer? He admitted that that system had existed before the Reform Act, but when the Noble Lord brought in the Reform Act, by not altering but continuing the evils of the old system of re gistration, and incorporating them in his own Bill, he made himself responsible for them.—( Loud cheers.) It was not an usual fault with the Noble Lord that his Bills did not go far enough, bet the charge against him here might probably be made. He was reedy to admit that sonic of the remedies proposed were sufficiently well calcu lated to obviate many of Vie evils, lie approved of an an nual revision, at least so far as to enable them to i emove from the list the voters who had died, or who had lost their qualification. Because, ;f they did not do that, they would depend upon the open voters, and be inciting to perjury all those who chose to go up and personate dead voters, or who, having lost the qualification, chose to go up and vote. The Noble Lord's Bill was good so far as that went, but the Noble Lord went much farther than was necessary, be cause he attempted to introduce into the Irish system the English system of an annual registration of all the voters, which had been tried in England and found so bad.— ( Cheers.) lie had never heard as yet any argument why a man's elective franchise should be put upon a different footing to any of his other rights; and why when once it was established to the satisfaction of a Court of Justice it should again be called in question.—( Cheers.) lie must now advert to a part of the argument of the Hon. Mem ber for Bandon. He had interrupted that Hon. Member by a cheer. Ile had not meant to occasion him any ina terruption. lie knew how unpleasant such interruptions were, and he considered them exceedingly ill-bred ; but lie had been astonished at a statement which the lion. and Learned Gentleman had then been making. That state. merit in itself was decidedly true, but it did not convey a true irnp: . ession ; of course he meant to impute nothing to the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, but such was the case. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman was observing upon the argument of the Right lion. Member for Edinburgh last night, that in England a man was not liable to have the same right tried twice over in a Court of Justice. Yes, said the Hon. and Learned Member for Bandon, he is—for actions of ejectment the same rights may be tried over and over again. Now, that was true ie fact ; but it was not fair in argument, because it lad always been acknowledged that this power of repea•edly trying eject ments was a deviation from the great principles tf Eng lish laws, and that it had arisen solely from the artificial manner in which the question was raise:] by the pleadings —( Hear, hear, from the Opposition.) He was not now stating his own opinion as law—( Cheers, and laughter)— but he was stating what he had scee kid down in law books of authority. It was in them acknowledged that this was a defect in the law, and he had always under stood that a Court of Equity would not hesitate to grant an injunction to prevent the trial of vexatious actions of ejectment. It was therefore not a fair argument against the general principle. A second objection was the enormous ex pense which would be incurred, and the great waste of time which would be occasioned by the introduction of this sys- tern, and the great chance that by repeating objeciiJits year after year the legitimate voter would be tired out, and give up his right altogether. The granting costs provided some remedy for that evil, but it was not an adeqaate one, and it was much better to adhere to the sound principles of English law, and not to suffer a right which had been once established in a Court of Justice to be again called in gins- ee _ tion.—( Cheer , . ) Another objection to this annual revi sion was, that it was attended with at least ha'f the ev is of an annual election. It might be very amusing and satis factory to some gentlemen to see recorded every y ear that at such a place the Conservatives bad succeeded in esta blishing so many on the register, and in such another place the Liberals had succeeded in doing the same thing. But this annual fight in the Registration Court was a great mischief in itself.—( Loud cheers.) Another argument against an annual revision was that it would make every man get his vote through the medium of a party. He must be entered in the register as a Liberal or Conserva tive, and must owe his vote to the party who had paidithe lawyer to defend him. Now put , ing all there evils toge ther, and taking the argument of the Noble Lord, that without such revision some persons might get upon the register who were not entitled to be there—he would put it to the House whether it was not a greater evil that the people should be exposed to this annual litigation with all its expense, waste of time, and other evils, than that a few persons should get upon the registry who were not entitled to the franchise. But the great point bef oe the House was another; it was the question of the determination cf the franchise. That was the really important question for their consideration.—( Cheers.) It was idle to deny that that was really the question, and that as long as that remained unsettled the other questions were of minor importance. Nobody could deny that that question was unsettled at present—the Revising Barristers were divided upon it— the Judges were divided upon it, and both Bills, he would admit, would equally remedy the evil. The Government Bill would give a clear definition of the franchise; the Bill of the Noble Lord also went to the settlement of the ques tion of the franchise, but it did so in a roundabout and in direct manner, and, without meaning anything personal to the Noble Lord, he must be excused for adding, by as little creditable a trick of legislation as he had ever seen in any measure introduced into that House. He would say that if the Noble Lord's Bill passed, the question of the franchise would be sot at rest in a restrictive sense. The Bill gave the appeal in both cases. Now, at first sight, this might not appear to be connected with the question, because. it appeared that the Judges were divided in opinion, one part of them being in favour of the beneficial interest test, and the other in favour of the solvent tenant test ; but when they considered the opinions which had been given by all the Gentlemen on the other aide of the House—opinions to which he doubted not they would be willing to give the force of a law the moment they could command a ma jority, that in all cases the minority of the Judges were to be bound by the opinion of the majority (Cheers from the Opposition.) It would at once be seen that the decision of the franchise was placed in the hands of the majority of the Irish Judges. —(Cheers.) Now, was the opinion of that majority unknown ? Could there be a doubt which way they would decide ?—and would not such a :node of legislation be equal to saying, that I henceforth the solvent tenant test was to be the test of the Irish franchise ?—( Chet rA. ) It was not credit able to the House to legislate in such an indirect way; what they did they ought to do ()Feely, and not to shift the difficulty of settling the question of the franchise from their own shoulders to the shoulders of the Irish Judges.—(Cheers.) The Noble Lord grounded this provision on general ane logy : the appeal was given in the one way at preterit. it ought to be given the other way also; but such an im portant point as the definition of the franchise ought not to be settled by implication ; and if they put rll the ques tions together connected with the registration that could come before the Judges and Revising Barristers, the whole of them would not be so important as the one of the definition of the franchise. It ought not to follow as an indirect consequence of the double appeal. He protested against giving the Judges the power of decide ing questions relating to the elective franchise. He won dered the Member for Montgomeryshire did not almost start from his scat when the Noble Lord had proposed such a proceeding. He should like to hear what reason the Right Honourable Baronet the Member for Tarnworth could give for assenting to such a proposition. That Right Hon. Baronet had taken a great interest in the question of the trial of election petitions ; he had introduced a Bill on the subject, and he had utterly epudiated the principle of allowing any interference in matters 'elating to the elective franchise out of that House. He would ask him, how it was that he was found among the supporters of a Bill which robbed the House of all power of deciding on the Irish franchise, and transferred tint power to the J.:signs ? How could he consent to de volve on officers appoietedby the Crown the decision of ques tions relating to the elective franchise? How could that be done consistently with maintaining the independence of the Judges. It had always been the wise policy of our ancestors to keep the Judges aloof from all questions re lating to election matters. Far he it from him to utter any reproach against the Judges. The Bench was no ss much purified, but he would ask every one who heard him whe ther, after any political trial, the character of the Judge who presided was not called in question ? Was it not con stantly asked before a political trial what were the politics of the Judge who would pre'side ? What was it that t ar nished the character of almost all the great Judges of for mer times? The imputation of political corruption. Ile did not me in to say it was just ; but it had been made ; it had been imputed to Lord Mantssld--it had been imputed to Lord; Kenyon"—it had been imputed to late Judges. He would not now enter into the ques tion of the justice of such imputations, but as long as po litical questions should be brought before Judges for their decision, that imputation would be made against them, and therefore it was their duty to keep all those questions connected with the decision of the elect franchise apart from those Judges who were to decide on our liberties, our lives, and our proeerties. ) Would anybody venture to say that the only exception they intended to make to that wise rile was Ireland—that Ireland was the only country in which political feelings were so moderate, and that therefore they might safely leave the Judges open to suspicion ? Now what was the case ? Why, in that country nothing could be kept nure from party ; the laws in Ireland had never been an) thing but a means for the rich man to oppress the poor.—( Hear.) Lord Redesdale had given that account of the administra tion of justice in Ireland. Could anybody come forward and say gravely that there was no notion of political par tiality in tie - s Judges in Ireland ? There was no doubt the Judges were equally honourable on both sides, but did they suppose the"public would believe it? Now what had been the language of the Hon. and Learned Member for Exeter and the Noble Lord the Member for Lancashire? The Member for Exeter, who was as calm and plain a speaker as he had ever spoken to, had talked about the clearness of the franchise, and about majorities and minorities, and he had laid the thing down so clearly that no lawyer could deny it ; and after that, he could not understand how .any person could think otherwise than that the minority of the Li h Judges were the most foolish persons alive. —( H ea r, hear.) He only mentioned this as pointing out to the House that men speaking in the place where they usually spoke with decorum, had ventured to justify imputati.ns on the Judges. The Noble Lord the Member for Ncith Lancashire had said there could be no doubt about the franchise, and there was an end of it ; and his Learned Friend the Member for Exeter had said it was quite dear, but he (Mr. B ) would venture to say that his Friend had made his statement intelligible to the Home by leaving out the most important clement, namely, the authority of the House of Commons,—( Hear,) In all cases where there was an appeal to the Judges, the Judges had the power to enforce their authority, but here the tribunal of appeal was the House of Commons itself.—( Hear, bear.) He would suppose the Judges of the Exchequer Chamber were to decide against a Judge on some point he had ruled, and he would suppose that the decision of the Court of Queen's Bench was against him also ; he was not bound by that if the House of Lords was with him. He would put the thing more plainly. Ho would suppose a Judge going the Circuit in which Longford was, and he would sup. pose that a question came before him as to the right to vote, and that the opinion of the ten Judges deciding against the right was produced; and, on the other hand, that the decision of the Longford Committee, which placed the man on the registry, was also produced, by whom could that be decided but by the Appellant Tri bunal, which was that House, and which would continue to be till the law sail otherwise ? Gontlemen might say that the decisions of Committees were conflicting, bet they were the constituted Appellant Tribunals; and he would ask, was it in a Judge to decide in the face of that tribunal ? If it was not a good Appellant Tribunal, let it be alt.ried ; but he must dept ecate such rash measures as the one introduced by the Noble Lord. He was sorry to sec his Learned Friend the Member for Exeter joining in sneering nosy the roverence due to the constituted authorities of the country. His Le arned Filen I had soil no English lawyer could stand up in that House to decry the provi si ins of the Bill of the Noble Lord the Member for North Laic :side , . Now he ( Mr. Buller) did not a'tach much weight to the opinions ( f English lawyers, as hen stated in that House; nor should he, until ho saw a lawyer get up and state opinions contrary to his party.—( Hear, hear. ) His Learned Friend had said that no English lawyer, of any ieputation, would venture to throw any doubt upon the question. Now he (Mr. Buller) had talked to an English lawyer that day, and he had sail that he did not believe that any candid lawyer could get up from the reading of the Irish R.:firm Act without being in the greatest bewilderment, and whose fault was that ? Why the Noble Lord's. They had therefore no right to cast imputations on the Irish Judges and Bar risters. lie objected to the double appeal to the Judges, because he thought it bad, and secondly, he thought im portant questions ought not to be brought forward in an indirect way. The Bill of the Noble Lord the Secretary for Ireland decided the question in a direct way. On this account it was said the Government entertained opinions of a revolutionary character. His had never supported the doctrine of the finality of the Reform Bill. He thought the Reform Bill, like all other human measures, contained imperfections ; and those imperfections ought t r be ewe rected as much as possible ; but he thought they should not touch lightly the distribution of the elective franchise ; they should not be constantly tempting with it. He did not say that no changes should be made, but the changes that were made should be settled and distinct ; that they should be demanded by a large portion of the peopl s, and should be based upon some common principle. This was the rational doctrine of finality, and having adopted it, the question was, how it was to he deett with s',then the pros ision of the Re form Bill would not work? How would they fix a ieei test? He would say, the Reform Bill comernpl ated such a right of voting, and let thorn try to obtain the constitu ency which the Refirm Bill intended ; and if he under stood the Noble Lord, the Secretary for Ireland, after much inquiry, they had found that the el. franchise would give such a constituency.—(Hear, boa-.) He bee treated this question as a simple question of the registration of voters, and the sole question they had to decide was the simplest and most convenient mode of registraden. He was using no exaggerated language when he declared his belief that in 1688 that House had not been cello 1 upon to give a decision that was pregnant with graver con sequences than were involved in this decision upon that Bill. The House would not suppose that he was induced to make these remarks by a desire to support the present Ministry, because he felt perfectly sure that if the Bill should turn out the present Ministry, it would bring them or a very liberal .Ministry back before long.—( Hear, hear, hear.) They had seen enough of the fate of great po pular measures to convince them that a Bill like that when once taken up by the great parties who bad pledged themselves to it, would become the banner of a great popular movement, which must eventually carry it. But he dreaded the policy to which the House must com mit itself by adopting the line chalked out for them by the Noble Lord. It would be a retrograde policy, marked by all the worst features, attended by all the most horrible consequences of a counter-revolution.-- ( Hear, bear.) He was not one of those who had hitherto anticipated anything very terrible from the accession of a Conservative Ministry. He did not suppose that it would be guilty of the madness of a retrograde policy, enforced by violence as it must be.—.( Hear, hear.) He thought they might trust to the discretion and prudence of the Right Honourable Baronet, the Member for Tam worth; and much as he had heard in reproach of that Right Hon. Baronet, and the Noble Lord the Member for North Lancashire, he thought that he had always seen in their contuct traces of feelings and opinions which raised them far above the Tories of old.—( Flear, hear.) But he said that it was the fate of those gentlemen to be come, like many bodies of parties, the instruments of the worstpurposes of the worst por inn of their party. " For, what is your purpose now," said the Hon. Gentlemen, address ing the Tory side of the House, " why, simply and plainly that of re-establishing the old Orange ascendancy.—( Hear, hear, from the Liberal benches.) I am using no mere terms of abuse, I merely am using the words that explain my own meaning in the amplest manner. Your object, (con. tinned the Hon. Gentleman with great emphasis) is not registration "—( Hear, hear,) That was not the object on either site of the Holise. It was ridiculous to talk of it as registration. They had not been brought down there by an abstract lye of registratien.--(Hear, hear.) It was not registration which crowded those benches, and suf focated them all till the hour of division ; it was because those Bills must decide a great question as to the destruction of political power in Ireland. " You came down, (addressing the Conservative benches) to support your Bill, which, by restricting the franchise, va ill place the electoral power in the hands of a small body of gentry, and will re-establish the old ascendancy party in Ireland ; and we came here to support a system which by keeping the elective franchise where it now is, will leave with the Irish people the choice of their representatives." He had said that he did not mean to use any terms of abuse, but he declared that he did not know of any other mode of desig nating the two parties in Ireland. Until the generation that had suffered, and that which had flourished under the old ascendancy party, had passed away, there never could be buttwo parties ; the one, which was called the Orange or as cendancy party,striving by such measures as the Noble Lord's B.llto get back the power of which the Reform Bill had de prived it; the other, the popular or Catholic party, endea vouring to keep and to extend the rights whirls they had. This was the real purpose, however it might be concealed. " You tell us (said the Hon, Gentleman, addressing the THE SUN, LONDON, T titTRSDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 1811. Conservative benches) t you want to prevent improper persons from being placed upon the registry, and that ybu want to have voters of pr sporty and intelligence. We all know what yeu mean by improper persons. You mean those who are elected by th e people in spite of the aristo cracy ; end we know what you mean by prcperty and intel ligence —you mean the gem ry, whose abuse of every right of property and of every poll tical power which they have preserved, has been the caul e of all the sufferings of the Irish people. "_—(Loud cheer%) Hewever bold they might Le thought, he would not disguise his thoughts upon this subject, be would not be led away, as gentlemen on the other side cftca were, by the threats which were used as to the Irish and English gentry being ire the same boat. With all his love of popular power and rights lie should be as loth as any man to see the influence of the English gentry diminished ; for with all its faults it had in the main honourably and usefully exercised the rights of property and iedividual power. But, admitting tl ,at there were many individual exceptions, ho must s a y th e i t h e cou ld no t a d m it that the Irish gentry had used their r i g ht s i n the s a me way. He viewed with horror many attempts which were made to give back to the Irish t Tentry the same power which they had before the Reform Act, and the Emancipation Act, because he felt convinced that they would use their power, as they always had done, to oppress and degrade the great mass ,of their fellow countrymen. —( Heir, ) It was for that reason that lie viewed with horror' Ili 3 policy assumed by the N able Lord, be cause it seemed to him that if he was successful it would re-establish the ascendancy of that party, ehich had been kept down for the last six years. " And now," (said the Hon. Gentleman, addressing - himself to tl:e Tory benches) I want t) ask you one pr act i ca l ques ti on . S u ppo s e you succeed in re-establishing that ascendancy party—suppose you pass the Bill of the Noble Lori on your side of the House, and reject that of the Noble Lord on this side, and thereby give reason to suppose that you are deter mined to enter upon a course, the re ult of which will he to re-establish the ascendancy party in Ireland, what do you think will be the practical consequences ? It is easy to pass one Bill and perfectly easy to reject the other; and there is not the slightest difficulty in enforcing any law which you may choose to make on this subject. But do you think that there will be any moral weight in your deciiion ? Do you think that in consequence of that the Irish people will tamely give up what they have gained by the hard and long struggle of the list 20 years ? Do you suppose that there will be peace is Ireland until the one Bill is repealed arid the other is passed. You have a habit of thinking that all these things are settled by divisions and elections, and that if you gain two or three elections in the one case, and happen to have the balance of influence upon your side on the other, yeu think that by such means you can re-establish the ascendency party in Ireland —( Hear.) I say that this is not a question for votes, but for arms to decide— and I tell you, before you come to such a decision, to look not merely to the physical force and temper of the Irish people, but to the circumstances and position of our foreign relations—( Hear, hear)—which (continued the Hon . Gentleman, with marked emphasis) you may find to be very intimately connected with the question. —(Ex pressions of disapprobation from the Conservative benches.) lam perfectly prepared for that disapprobation, because I think that these are topics to which we should allude with great caution.—( Hear, hear, from the Oppo sition benches.) But I think there are times in which it would be perfectly childish not to allude to them—( Hear, hear, from the Ministerial benches)—and I think that this is one of those occasions, when every person, abroad or at home, friend or foe, speaks of the alienation of Ireland as a notorious fact—when our enemies build their hopes upon it and our friends view it with alarm." He (Mr. Buller) must retried the House that after all this was not the first time that these considerations had been advanced in that liouse.—( Ironical cries of " ficar,"from the Opposition.) It was not the first that those consideretions had influenced the legislation for that House. They must remember that every great improvement which had been made in the condition of the Irish people, had reoated from the ope ration of those considerations.—( Hear, hear.) How was the fiat great step gained but by the armed and menacing attitude of the Volunteers, and by the progress of the Ame rican war. When was the cl active franchise granted to Ire land? Under the influence of the first terrors of the French Revolution. Above all, how was the Catholic Emancipation wrung from the Legislature ? Why, it was . not owing to any alteration in the temper of the House, but it vial owing to the fear excited respecting the dispo sition of some of the Irish regiments, and to the armings and trainings of some of the peasantry. He would ask Hon. Gentlemen opposite if they could have a better case than the history of the passing of the Catholic Emancipa tion Act, to show them the utter folly of gains at elections and in divisions in that House ? On the general election in 1e26 the "No Popery" cry was raised wish so much effect that at the close of the election the Catholic advocates found themselves in a minority, and yet two years afterwards the Catholic Emancipation Act passed the Legislature. He called upon the House to reflect upon the possible consequences of rejecting this measure. He did not wish to exaggerate. He spoke with perfect calmness and perfect gravity. " And God knows," said the Hon. Gentleman, " I should regret such a result as much as any body." But they ought to look at the tem per of the Irish people. They ought to inquire whether their physical force was less now than when they lest yielded to it ; and those all, they ought to inquire whether that was a moment when they could afford to alleviate their afflic tion% fic would ilea for a moment on one point which he thought had not received the attention which it de served, namely, the entirely altered character of t' e Irish people within the last forty years. The Irish people we.•e not then the cowering, degraded, and disunited serfs:which they :vele at the close of the last century. They could net be goaded and driven as they were at that period.—( Ilear, hear.) Thee, though they had the same courage as now, they had no organized leader who could direct fteir energies. Since that period the Irish Catholics had become a people. They had been or ganized by tire most skilful and popular lc tilers that the world had ever seen. And by the agency of the most powerful priesthood in the world, and they had Leen attended a ith constant and unmeasured success. It had been made a matter of reproach to the Irish Government that they bad admitted them to a share of power. But he rejoiced in the circumstance. All these things had tended to raise their character, and they could no longer he oppressed with impunity The Hon. Gentleman then proceeded to speak of the progress of temperance among the Irish people, and argued that it was a great don lopmert of their moral power. Ile also referred to the power exercised over them by their leader, and contended that this made them a formidable body if oppressed. The oppression which they had so longesuffered had raised in them a feeling of resentment, and their causes of discontent were not countervailed by any great love for the English people. Nor could they b e surprised that this was tee case. It was impossible to deny that the English Government had oppressed Ireland as much even as Tuekey had oppressed Greece. And though a more liberal course had been pursued during the I ist six years, there was sufficient in the language used be a powerful party towards them to keep up the re membrance of their ancient wrongs. They were described as savages and as aliens ; their representatives were de nounced, as perjurers; their religion as a grovelling and mischievous idolatry; and the priesthood, whom they loved and venerated, more perhaps than any people in the world loved and venerated their priests, were described as sur piked ruffiens —( Hear, hear.) When he saw a party using such language as that—s party that had never willingly granted anything to the people of Ireland, which bad always tupported every measure for coercing and dis franchising it—though he might regret he could not corn plai that that people had relaxed none of their ancient resentment. What would be the result of re-es tablishing the old ascendancy party in that country ? Ho did not allude to Irish insurrection, because be thought there was no danger of that, at leasti during the life of the Hon. and Learned Member far Dublin. The people of Ireland had been taught by him the great secret of resist ance to Government. lie had taught them that the insur rection which was most effective in coercing a Government was that which never broke out but was always to be ap prehended.—( Hear, hear.) This might bo novel phrase ology, but such was the fact. They had been accustomed to permanent insurrection in Ireland, and they had found for many years that it entailed upon the Government ail the precautions—all the harrassing anxieties and all the expense of civil war, without havieg any pretext for treating the people as rebels. What will be the consequence of the ascendancy party regaining the ground which they had lost? " Why," said the Hoe. Gentleman, " that all the - good that has been done for the last six years would be undone, and that you (address ing the Conservative benches), epon a Conservative principle, will succeed in re-establishing all the ancient disorder, and insecurity, and terror in Ireland. You will again have the sympathies of the whole population arrayed upon the side of crime and the criminal, you will have to preserve the peace of Ireland by double its present garrison; you will have every form of opposition that pub lic opinion, public meetings, and petitions can bring to bear upon you ; and you will have every popular institu tion brought to bear upon your unpopular Government. And what course will you take in these circumstances ? Why you must have recourseto a coercive Bill, and sup press every liberal institution, and every expression of public opinion in that country.—( H ear , h ear .) He ought then to ask how it was that he touched upon those topics? But lethim as k whether, in tire present state of our foreign relations, they ought nut to use th e u t mos t caution ?--(Hear, hear.) He saw with feelings of the utmost horror the indicatio▪ ns of ruptur e on every s id e . France still assumed a posi▪ tion calculated t o create feel ings of alarm ; and in America were to be found strong in dications of the same feelings which led to the late war. He had a great dread—a deep horror of war, but the warmest advocate of peace tisust look at th e s i gns o f t h e times, and prepare for a contingency. Such a ti me was one that called rather for concil i ation towards th e I r i s h peop l e —it was certainly a time when they ought at all events not to exasperate them.—(Cheers.) They might want the cordial support of that people ere long—(Hear, hear) —and certainly it was not a proper time to excite their feelings.—(Hear, hear.) lie was not supposing the con tingency of invasion—( Hear, hear)--he did not think that was possible, and if it should happen he hoped a better feeling would be found am tog the Irish tha n i n f ormer times. But they might want their cordial support--upon the Irish people they greatly depended for soldiers and sailors.—( Cheers.) It would be bad policy i n them to excite a feeling among the Irish people that might deprive them of their services in the time of danger. He would not have adverted to these topics had he not thought the dan ger was extreme. He thought it was right to look to these considerations, and that it was a fair argument to bo used upon such an occasion. They ought t o h ave a ll th e feelings of the people on their side should war unfortu nately assail the country.—(Cheery.) He was not wrong in dwelling on the advantages of union ; be was g, not widening dissen sionsßut the policy of the Noble Lord and the Gentlemen opposite wo uld put Ireland in the list conscious amongth at ourselves.t im e for healing, of foreign and hostile nations.—(Cheers.) There was ono thing to console them, which was that the Toryism of the present day was characterised by very great timidity, though, if again in power, there would be none sharper. But if the House ...could judge of them by heir past conduct. they would go on with their present po!ley just so long as irritation in Ireland did not menace them with convulsion—(Cheers)—juet so long es they could avoid war, as they did in 1828, 1829, and 1830, by truckling to every Foreign Power, paralisci as they were by the state of Ireland.—( Loud cheers.) Bit the instant the danger came, the instant the war threatened, the in stant the convulsion broke out in Ireland, that instant the frail fabric of their wretched policy would crumble into dust, and the rapidity of their concessions would mark the folly of their present course.—(Loud cheers.) And fur what wcre they encountering that certain present mis chief, and future humiliation ? They might suppose the dangers were not so great as he represented them. He wished he could thiale:so, for their own sakes. But he could tell them that their present insane policy would not bear so hard upon those whom they now hoped to supplant, as upon those who might succeed them. Was it because they might succeed by their juggling in gain ing a paltry dozen seats in Ireland ?—(Cheers.) Tea times that gain would not make up for the execrations of the Irish people which would be showered upon them.— (Cheers.) The events cf the last six Hears had shown how quietly they could live under a mild Government, and with how little of justice they could be conciliated.— ( Cheers.) Had they from the first pursued the course of common prudence—had they even given them the same degree of conciliation which they had afferded to the Hindot - s (A, laugh) had they respected their prejty'ices had they conciliated their leaders ?—( A laugh.) Had they coacili:ted them i n th e same way . as all popular leaders must every where be conciliate I ?—( Loud laughter.) He meant to say all popular leaders except those highly di interested Gentle men whom he saw opposite, who had never cared far what he was going to mention—by the power, influence, and the emoluments of office ?--(Loud laughter.) Had they conciliated the people, above all, by conciliating their priesthood ?—(Cheers.) Had they attached them to their country, as every wise Government in Europe had done, by paying them every due respect? Had they done that, it was only to be feared that the Irish people would have been too easily put off._ ( Ilear, hear.) Why was it they had always devitted from that course ? and for what was it they called upon the House now to deviate from that great cause under consideration ; for what object that common sense did not laugh to scorn, and common humanity and justice did not repudiate with horror? The Hon. Gentle man sat down amidst loud and continued cheering. Sir JAMES GRAHAM said, did he thiele that was a mere ateea for oratorical display, he wouliTgladly;have given a silent vote upon that occasion, ard have left the answer to the speech of the Honourable and Learned Gentleman to some one abler than himself ; but as the question under discussion was a very important one, he begged to be allowed to state bis sentiments. When the Hon. and Learned Gentleman commenced Kith his legal arguments, he (Sir J. Graham) did not think it would be his duty to follow him, and certainly he attached some importance to his legal opinion; but it was consider ably diminished when the Hon. Gentleman, in the can dour which he boasted, said that no lawyer would express an opinion rgsinst the party with whom he acted. In the excess of his candour he ascribed censure to the Noble Lord the. Member for North Lancashire, for the intro. duction into, and the continuance of, the system of regis tration in Leland. His Noble Friend demurred to that statement, and with much justice, for bath his Noble Friend and Lord Althorp most distinctly stated that they left the system of Registration as they found it, until they had some experience of how the system worked in England. Then again, he wanted to fasten upon the Noble Lord an immutable preference for the appellant tribunal of the Judges. Now he denied that, for his Noble Friend had distinctly stated on several occasions that be would take any tribunal that would be more impartial or more trustworthy that might be suggeste - d. Then again, in the excess of his candour, the Honourable and Learned Gentleman _suggested to the House that the Judges might be tainted with political feelings, and ho had not thought it beneath him to assail ore of the justest Judges who had ever adorned the English Bench—viz., Lord Mansfield.—( Hear, hear.) He had also taken cc casion to assail the Longford Committee, and while doing so he was happy to tee him cheered by the Hon. Baronet the Member for Yorkshire ( Sir G. Strickland)—( Loud laughter)—the Chairman of the Hull Committee.— (Cheers.) He rejoiced in the allusion, and the more so as those tribunals had been put an end to by his Right Hon. Friend near him. Ile would not have fol lowed the Honourable and Learned Gentleman into those topic, if it had not been for the excited nature of that por tion of his speech with which he concluded. He quite agreed with him that the question they were now discuss ing was ore of the very utmost importance. He doubted, however, whether questions, even more pregnant with im portant consequences, had not been discussed since the Re volution of 1688. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman went on to say that many and pressing dangers sur rounded our country, and that it was impossible to view the shadow of coming events without much anxiety.—( Hear, hear.) He ( Sir J. Graham) very much doubted the dis cretion, if not the patriotism, of the Hon. and Learned Gen tleman, in entering into such topics on such an occasion. He mutt state the impression which his speech had left on his mind, and he doubted whether on the Corn Ex chargo at Dublin, atany time, a greater stimulus was ap plied to Isiah discontent, even by the turbulent spirit of English Radicalism.—(Cheers.) But it appeared to him there was a similarity in the speech of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, with the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary at War, with which the debate last night concluded. The attack from that side of the House, being sharp on the measure of the Government, They Ita I thought it expedient to shift their ground— ( Cheers)—end ha I argued not as if the Bill of the Noble Lord the Secretary for Ireland was the subject of discuP sion, but as if they were debatieg the Bill of his Noble Friend (Lord Stanley). The Hoe. and Learned Secre tary at War, was no leis a great orator than an experienced critic, and he designated the Legislative effort of his Noble Friend the Member for North Lancashire, not once, but again and agar, as a childish effort.—( Hear, hear.) No doubt the Right Hon. Gentleman rejoiced in a giant's strength, and might consider the puny efforts of his Noble Friend ( Lord Stanley) as childish, but he ( Sir J. Graham) thought his Noble Colleague, the Member for Yorkshire, with the experience of last year, must have discovered that this was a very troublesome child. (Cheers) Last year he endeavoured to smother it almost at fie birth, and this year he endeavoured to change :t at nurse.—( Laughter.) He ( Sir J. Graham) was quite sure that if the Right Hon. Gentleman would make just such a speech as he made last night in some future de'eate, and give his Noble Friend an opportunity of instantly re plying, he would dilcover that this child could hit some what harder than he expectel, and that he would also discover th at his speech contained something moie than light conceits and impotent puerirties. —( Cheers.) In the eagerness of the Right Hon. Geatle man to attack the measure of his Nob'e Friend, a speech which was prepared for the second reading of the Bill of Lis Noble Friend, went off at lislf cock—( Laughter)—and could not restrain fire far the actual division or the second reading. lle (Mr. Nlasaaul iy) promised not to go into details—not to touch the minor features of the Bill, but by an oversight the greater part of his speech consisted of attacks of this description, and more extraordinary still from the manner in which he treated those details, it would appear that lie l basi not read the Bill of hi . ; Noble Friend ( Lord Stanley). What were his two points? His first argument was contained in a dissertation on the tor ture of annual r !gistratien. Now this torture, if such it was, was carefully prepared by the hand of the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies, and whatever the defects might have been of the original measure, they were carefully counteracted by his Noble Friend; and the Right Hot'. Gentleman had overlooked the provi•ion of costs in the case of vexatious objections ; and to show how the Right Hon. Gentleman understood the measure, he idustrated it by his own vote as a Member of the Uni versity of Cambridge. Ile said if he were called repeat edly to Cambridge to defend it, he should forego his vote from disgust at such perpetual vexation. Why that Bill of his Noble Friend provided that if any voter should be on the registry, ho should not be compelled to attend to defend his vote, but that he might employ any third party to defend it—(Cheers from the Ministerial Benches) —and that it should not be in the power of the objector by summons to compel his attendance. But he now gladly paused.—(Cheere.) Had he wasted the time of the House ?—(Hear, hear.) The, speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman was made up of deteits, and he (Sir J. Graham) would rather follow the example of the Right Hon. Gentleman who bad just addressed them, and deal with greater matters. The Right Hon. Gentleman said, , that the rule laid down for the franchise was the essence of his Bill, and ho also said what he (Sir J. Graham) confessed fixed his attention still more on the measure, that,this Bill was in the spirit in which the legislature of the country ought henceforth to run. Now considering the vast importance the Right Hon. Gentleman attached to the vital essence of this measure, he must be allowed to:call the at tention of the House to the late introduction of the vital principle into the measure of the Government.—(Cheers.) Throughout the whole of last Session the Government bad thought it expedient to keep the subject of the franchise totally distinct from that of registration. And what was their conduct at the commencement of the present Ses sion ? Oa the first day of the Session, while the intentions of his Noble Friend were unknown with respect to the in troduction of his Bill this Session, the Secretary for the Treasury took the first opportunity on the first day of the Session, of giving notice, on behalf of the Noble Lord ( Lord Morpeth), of the introduction of a measure to amend the law relating to the registration of voters in Ireland. On the 2d of February his Noble Friend (Lord Stanley) obtained leave to bring in a Bill to amend the laws relating to registration, carefully avoiding all notice respecting any alteration or definition of the 'franchise. On the same evening after that division, when her alajeaty's Ministers had made up their minds to support his Noble Friend in bringing in his Bill, then, and not till then, was this declared to be the vital principle of the measure, its very essence, and that which gave it life. And, undoubtedly, in the great attachment of the Right Hon. Secretary at War to this which he termed the essence of the measure, he bad hardly announced he so considered it, before he declared (such was the effect of open questions in the Cabinet) that it was quite open in Committee to deal tai h the 51. qualification, or even with the term of 14 years.—(Hear, hear.) But ke would now proceed to state, as shortly as he could, the strong objec tions he felt to this measure, and they were so strong that he agreed with his Noble Friend (Lord Stanley) that if he stood alone, he would resist the second reading of the Bill.—( Cheers.) It appeared to him to be framed solely with the object of adding numbers without regard to the principle of qualification. It had been stated by the Hon. and Learned Member for Woodstock that this principle had been at all times recognised by the law of England, and that the difference between the principle of qualifi cation in counties and boroughs was, that in counties it had always been a fixed interest, or estate in land yield ing profit, that constituted the qualification, and in boroughs, occupation with residence and with payment of rent.l!iis t. % this Bill appeared to him to be entirely subvert 0 not see ° f the p; inciple of qualification in counties, and he u that by the proposition of a 51. valuation without payment of rent and without profit, the principle recognized was at once overthrown. —( of " Hear, bear.) lie cored% ed that with respect to counties there must be F °me difficulty, as, under the exitting law the auicuat of constituency was diminishing; but with respect to cities or boroughs, there was no Each excuse. If they admitted that diminution of the franchise in cities and boroughs in Ireland, he would ask— he would appeal to the lion. Member for Kilkenny, on what principle would her Ma je•ty's Government resist the extension of that diminution of the franchise to England and Scotland ? If the Noble Lord and his colle ;guts should say that in Ireland the cc eupation of a b/. house was a sufficient test cf the respec tability, the property, the independence, and the station of its cecepier, he (Sir J. Graham) did not conceive by what arguments they could prove that a 5/. occupier in England and Scotland was less trustworthy than the oc cup icr of a 5/. house in Irelaad.—( Hear.) But now he conceived that the object of the Irish Reform Bill with respect to counties, was an addition to the freeholders pos teasing the franchise under the Act of 1829, and to the leaseholder; possessing a profit equal to the am aunt of a freehold. The object of that measure was to extend the basis of the franchise a , it is exited in England and Ire land ; but it broke through no principle which the Act of 1829 had established. It did not render the influence of property subservient to Members, and thus degrade the station of the' elector. He (Sir J. Graham) confessed that he was always of opinion that the real principle of the elective system was stated in the clearest end plainest manner by the highest constituted authorities—by Mr. Fox.—( Hear, hear.) That celebreted men laid down that that was the best system of representation which admitted the largest number of independent clee texts, and which excluded the largest nun.lot r of those who, from circumstances, were not calculated to exercise the right of voting. It was upon that prin ciple that the Act of 1829, and the Reform Act, conse quent upon it, were passed. He (Sir J. Graham) agreed with the Hon. 'Wernher for lia!ifax (M , . C. Wood) that words could not be found more clear and distinct than the words which established the test under- the Act as it now stood. lie (Sir J. Graham) did net think that any dcfi. nition of the franchise was necessary. He agreed with the lion. Gentleman that it was a great misfortune that the majority of the Judges did not take the definition of the lay, so as that the minority should agree with them ; but, at the same time, if the determination of the landlords should diminish the constituency to any great extent, he would consider it a very serious evil. But he confessed that that evil should be made manifest, and though he was of opinion that no remedy could be entertained which did not place the right of voting in the profit interest' that would give a state of security and perfe e independ ence to the delegates of respectable voters. Some Hon. Gentlemen, in the course of the present debate, referred to the case eif the county Mayo, and said, is it possible that an Irish county with a population of 350,000 persons, should only have a constituency of seven or eight hundred voters? It so happened that when the Irish Reform Act was under discussion, the county Mayo was brought for ward in the debate, and Mr. Dominic Browne, who then represented Mayo, made a motion for an additional Mem ber for that causes:. A numerous constituency was not always an independent constituency. Mr. Browne stated that under the 40s. freehold franchise the number of elec. tors in Msyo amounted to 25,000, and he stated that with that numerous constituency, all the proprietors of that county had an absolute power to nominate the Members, but he ( Mr. Browne) went on to state that when the con stiteency, in consequence of the Act of 1829, was re duced to 700, that power of nomination had altogether ceased. The constituency was independent, and there was no combination of the landlords to put down the elec tors. But was that all with respect to Mayo? The Noble Lord the Member far North Lancashire, stated another remarkable fact, that the population of Mayo was 350,000, but with respect to their independence he (Lord Stanley) told them this most striking fact, that in the year 1831, the year before the discussion alluded to took place, there had been ;treat destitution and distress in Ireland, and to such an extent that out of 350,000 inhabi tants of Mayo, 225,000 had either received relief or applied for relief from tie Government officers. ( Hear, hear, from the Opposition.) No answer was as yet made to the remarkable statement of Lord Stanley, which showed that the number of acres in Great Britain was about 34 millions, occupied by 350,000 landlords ; and that in Ireland the number of acres was 40 millions, occu pied by 659,000 landlords. By a remarkable coincidence, in each of the holdi igs ie Ireland there was, on an average, about five times less the number of employed labourers than in each of the holdings in England ; and the proportion in the number of voters in each of the countries was just the same. lie would then explode the arguments so often urged on this subject by the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin, relative to the small amount of voters in a large population, unless the test was to be placed in numbers, and not in property. It has often been put from that (the Opposition) side of the House, and he would again put it to the Government, did they entertain the slightest belief that they had the least chance of carrying the mea sure proposed by the Noble Lord ( Lord Morpeth)? It was neither more nor less than playing over again the game of the appropriation clause.—( Loud cheers.) The Noble Lord and his colleagues now felt that they could no longer defend the perjury and fraud which existed in the registration in Ireland, and what was the course they took ? They tacked to the remedy a condition which they well knew could not be fulfilled, and which virtually perpetuated these evils. The adoption of such a measure in Ireland would eventually lead to, its extension to England and Scotland. Now, that extension of the suffrage the supporters of her Ma jesty's Ministers had urged is the shape of motions— constantly repeated, and as constantly refused—and now it was yielded in the most dangerous quarters, not at the sug• gcstion of the English Radicals, but of the Irish Repeaters. He should state shortly to the. House what had bees the progress of the concessions made by the present Gov rn merit. Her Majesty's Government, in the summer of 1839, having c 'me to the conclusion that they no longer possessed the confidence of the House sufficiently to carry on the business of the country with advantage, resigned office. They returned to place under circumstances which he would not dwell upon, but within a week of their return, a supporter of her Majesty's Government, the Hon. Mem ber fcr Preston, made a motion that the 10,. franchise sit )uld be extended to the counties of England, being one half of the sum now proposed for Ireland. The Hon. I Member for Bridport made on that occ as i on a path e tic ap ical to the Noble Lord opposite. He represented that the distress of the English Radicals was extreme, and that if the measure was resisted, it would be the mutt unfortunate day that had ever come. He said the Noble Lard must give these some popular topic at the bust intsbs—sorne ground on which to rest their support of the Government, and if not, the Government could no ! longer reckon upon the support of the English Radicals. I The Hon. Member for Sheffield was still more explicit— 1 he told the Noble Lord, who at the time resisted the measure in rather a timid and doubtful mariner, that he should give scone distinct promise that et a future day he would be induced to give way—that two-thirds of the party whom he atte - opted to lead went beyond the narrow line which he had defined—that it was impossible to keep ; them together, and it was, therefore, incumbent on the Noble Lord to give way. So the Session ended. He (Sir J. Graham) thought it probable that something in the way of concession would be proposed, but his suspicions resolved themselves into certainty when he read the speech made at the hustings at Edinburgh by the Hoe. Gentleman the Sccretary at War. On that occasion the Honourable Gentleman announced distinctly to his consti:uents twat he was a decided advocate for the extension of the 101. franchise to England and Scotland. He was admitted into the Cabinet, frankly and freely avowing those ; rinciples, and immediately after the floe. Gentleman had taken his scat there, the Ballot was made an open question. And now, the Ballot being an open question, they had arrived, in the course of eighteen months, at this rapid progress of tendering a 5/. franchise for the counties in Ireland. He would ask, to whom was that Irish concession made ? Why, distinctly to the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin, and to him alone.— (Cheers.) The merit of the measure was with him. He originally proposed it in 1832, when the Irish Reform Act was introduced. He had pressed it from time to time, and it was occasionally resisted with more or less firmness, but it was his measure and his suggestion, and he ( Sir J. Graham) bad most evil forebodings if it were adopted. What was the present concession but the first step to other de mands which had been frankly avowed and acknowledged? He would give a short summary of them, and he would ask the House to pause and deliberate before it would accede 'to them. The first object of the Hon. and Learned Mem ber was to secure the tame franchise In England and Ire land ; his second was an alteration of the proportion of , the representatives of the three kingdoms, and according to the proportion of the population he required that the representatives of Ireland in that House should be 175 in number. The third demand of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman—and without which there could be no peace in Ireland, and, so far as he was concerned, there should be none—was the confiscation of the property of the Pro testant Church, already reduced 25 per cent.—the confis cation of that property to public uses, in which the Catho lic might participate in common with the Protestant. These were the avowed objects of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, and there we e others distinctly shadowed. Had he not talked of separation in a manner not to be misunderstood ? and bad he not spoken of Hanover, Belgium, and Switzerland, all independent countries, with populations infinitely less than !rebind ?—( Hear.) But it was in vain for him to define the secret purposes of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman ; but ho would read to the House a much shorter and clearer exposition of his in tentions than any he (Sir James Graham) could offer. The words were uttered by the Noble Lord, and he de scribed the intentions of the Hon. and Learned Gentle man in words which he should now read to the House. The Right Hon. Baronet here read to the House from e a speech of the Noble Lord (J. Russell), in which_ • Ireland stated that all that was taking place showed that the Hon. and Learned objects and views were neither more n e or attempt, under the name of a repeal of th the two Union, es . and un derl n s M than e m an and to co countries—to n t t h r e iest n to orovae separate rt and in Commons of es tablish, in the place of King, uriithe Parliament , united padrs Parliament, d e ts n u t n , ite the United Empire, and Learned Gentleman should be leader and King, and most conspicuous part, Bonne ParliamentLor in which the Hon. in which no doubt he would play a f b nl vi u it t h i o n ut wh i i ti ch vol i v t but at ell events in the ss the extinction of on e or the other,inwgagthiemPt:Oicboleurrttorigeso n n a o s r y e a r, s e l g d i e n g ) e a in r loss of that power of p had hitherto bee n governed.d übli c opinion Such by was w thhi echexposition t r o y f the lion. and Learned Gen r) t a e h t li n a t d i o n na :i nnG s o e eu e nn r tc a l t eedmoe e nn si 3 g s d n e „le s um a t i n egd d . t Th 7 . d i a o t n e s w w a h s ic l h B t 3 l o i_e . Noble (iie a L r to think the date made some difference; but he thought it was the principle and the co n du ct that made the difference ; and iled there been since then any change which would give greater confidence in the intentions of that party ? The Government now had net the control of the mcverncnts of the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin-_(Cheers) —and he was astonished that her Majesty's !Ministers so tamely and recklessly subuft'cd to the course imposed upon them.—(Cheers.) If he was surpri ed at their concetstons, his surprise was gieetee at the accusation brought by the Noble Lord opposite (Lord Morpeth) against his Noble Friend ( Lord Starlet' ), that the present state of agitation in Ireland was to be -,~ .EVENING EDITION. attributed to Lim, and to no one elte.—(llcar.) Wha', tine, had Lees the conduct of her Majesty's Ministers ? ( Hoar ) Had thy exerted their legitimate authuri•y t i do..vn tl at agitLf ?—(lle tr.) It was true that tl e L".rd Lieutenant (Lord Ebriegton) bad recently thclared • that be would not countenance by his paronage any person who avowed Lirrisclf fay.iurable to the Rival of the union. But what had been the actual conduct of the Government in respect to patronage?—(llear.) The Hon. and Learned Member for Liskeard had said that pa tronage was the powerful instrument by which all popular leaders were to be couci!iated.—(Cheers and laughttr.) It certainly appeared to be the tneans to which her Ma ', sty's Ministers resorted to put down the repeal agitation. —(Cheer<.) In 1832 the lion. and Learned Meatle: for Dublin brought forward a motion for the Repesl of the Union, and thirty-eight gent:erten voted for the Re peal. He (Sir James Graham) would just read to the House how many of those popular lenders had bean caneFiated by the delightful recite of the for.. and Lt arned Member for Liskeard ?---(Checre.) Erf., there was Mr. Fi•z-irnon, a neat relative to the lion. and Liar. ed Member fir Dublin, who was appointed clerk to the Hanaper office in Dublin.—(Cheers from Ile Opp:- Mr. HUM E—What is the date of the appointment ? Sir J. GRAHAM had not got the date, bat he had no doubt that the Noble Lord opposite could supply it,— (Cheers and a 1 tugh ) Next was Mr. Keanedy, formerly Member for Tiverton,, whom the Nal:: Lord secaceded in his scat in that Houtc—(Laughter)—arid who lad since been apps ietad to the effice of Slave Cornnrivsioner at lisvannale—(Chesrs.) The next was Mr. Lynch, now a Master in Chancery in England.—( Elear, br ar, hear.) Mr. Morgan O'Connal, appointed a clerk i t the Regis trar's Office, in the Court of Chancery, Dublin. Then there was Mr. O'D.vyer, appointed to an office In the Court of Exchequer in Ireland ; and next was the appointment of Mr. Fitzsimon, which was still in abeyance.—(Ct.eers and a laugh.) Then came the gen tleman who acted as teller upon that occasion, and was now the Vice-President of the Board of 'Trade._ (Cheers.) Then last, bat not least, in his (Sir James Graham's) esteem, came the Hon. and Learned Gentle man the Member ter Dublin himself—(Much cheering)_ who last year announced, in his place in that House, Wet the office of Chief Baron had been offered to him, and he had refused because, he said, he could rot trust hire self, and he would run no risk, lest justice should be vio. lated in his person.—(Hear, hear.) Ile (Sir J. Graham) thought the avowal did the Hon. and Learrel Gentleman honour, and he made a note of the gratifying and pleasing compliment which he paid to the Ministers who made him the offer.—(Cheers and a laugh.) But the Noble Lord opposite, the Secretary fa- the Colonies, had once boldly and truly declared, that not the a istocracy alone, but the pool lc also, had their parasites, and panders, and their slaves. He ( Sir J. Graham) had read welt satiafaeriat: the Noble Lord's address to his constituents at Stroud, in which he declared that " be would not be the person to lift the anchors of the monarchy, when the signs of the storm were black in the horizon. "—(Cheers.) lie (Sir J. Graham) thought there were times w hen compromise was a diagrace and silence was dishonour—(Clasers)— end he hoped before this debate closed, be would hear from the Nobls Lord what were his intentions.—(Hear, hear.) Was he disposed to extend the franchise, and to lower property before numbers? Had he read the cor respondence of Earl Fitz william with Mr. Marshall? Did the Noble Lord believe with Mr. Marshall that the revo lution of 1832 had not been consummated, and that the Reform Bill had failed, because it had not given the people bread?—(Elear, hear.) Did the Noble Lord also believe that the war was at hand and was inevitable, in which both the aristocracy and the Crown would be swept away I—(Cheers.) He thought they were en titled to know what were the Noble Lord's iotentions on these matter=, end whether he intended to make fur ther concessions and further advances in that line.— (Cheers.) Let the Noble Lori speak frankly now, nod appeal to the people, lest it might be said hereafter that he slush el is office the honour of his Administration, and that he was contented to govern when be had ceased to command the confidence of the nation.—( Loud cheers from the Opposi.ior.) For his part, be (Sir J. Graham) was moat anxious to consolidate constitutional reform, and he was resolved to resist the advance of those democratic move ments. He clung to the measure of Lord Grey as the beet security against them. On that ground he had sup ported it is 1832, and be then recorded his opir isn that it was suffix to satisfy all reasonable demands.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") He regarded it as the best safeguard against that restless spirit of innovation which contentel itself with nothing lets than the over throw of all our institutions, and of the Throne Itself.— ( Hear.) On that ground he was determined to stand by the Reform Bill, and to improve its provision=.—( Cheers from the Reform bcnchet.) He was ready to remedy the admitted gr;evances of the registration system. He stood by the Reform Act, willing to improve its provision', and to regulate its operation, but he was resolved to guard the franchise, and, above al', to resist alterations such es those which I am convinced must end In universal sof frage—( Hear, hear)—and ovembrow and degrade this m i g hty nation to the level of a turbulent democracy.--1- (Cheers.) In a word, he wished to state his creed in a few line., which he thought were worthy of their great author: ----- • g. When ancient fabrics nod and threat to fall, To patch tat it flaws and buttress up their walle, Thus far 'tis good ; but there to fix the mark, For all le?yond it, is to touch the ark. To change fout da' ions cast the frame anew, Is work for rebels who Iwo c his pence." The Right Hon. Baronet resumed his seat amidst loud arid prolonged cheers. Mr. SHIEL said that the Right Hoc. Baronet who hnd just addressed the Howe had risen after a speech dis ai iguistsed by Ls ability, delivered by the Hole Gentle . man the Member for Liikeard; and yet to that speech, alluding to a diversity of the most important matters, although that speech contained more than a reply—a ie futatian in his (Mr. Shiel's) humble judgment—of many things advanced by the Right Hon. and Learned Mem bea fsr Exeter; amid although that speech presented mat ter deserving indeed of the most serious-.-would he Le permitted to add cf the most solemn race:ion—di) Right Honourable Gentleman whs had just set dov.e scarcely mlverted to any of the topics which the Hon. Me , nber for Liskcard had discussed—(Cheers)—bet en turning—he hoped he would pardon him for saying se— with the prove:bial animosity of conversion_( Hear, hear) . —to the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary at War, w h o se speech he bad bad an opportunity of poring over in his nocturnal meditations, • he pounced on that Right Hon. Gentleman'a criticism, from a which he (Mr. Steal) thought he ought to have abstained, when he bore in mind that the Right Hon. Gentleman had been his o:lleaguo and his auxili try in the tuest eventful timer, and that ho had co-operated with him when the Right Hoe. Baroret was the advocate of that very Ballot which he had that night denounced.—(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Raroat • bail spoken of an address to the electors of Stroud. fie ( Mr. Shiel) remembered a speech at Stroud, and in that speech it had been stated that the Ri g h t Honourable Baranet was a Member of a Committee which had agreed to the Ballot.—(Loud cheers on the Ministerial benches.) He now defied the Right Hon G ntleman to contradict him. He said that in a speech at Stroud. The Noble Lord, the Secretary for the Cc lenie,, stated that there was a Committ• e of five persons appointed, to whom the project of framing the Reform was committed. He stated that the First Lord cf . the Adrni:alty ( Sir J. Graham) was one of that Committee, and be further stated that that Committee had agreed to the Bill it.—( Loud cheers. He (Mr. Shiel) said, there foie, that the Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir J. Graham) ought to bear in mind that he was the colleague of a man distinguished—he did not exaggerate when he said, by his matchless eloquence—in defence of the came of Reform, while the Right Honourable Gentleman —he used the elpression of the Noble Lord—shrunk from his duty. The Right Hon. Gentleman then remained silent, or in one instance only during the whole Issitation of the Reform Bill departed fLom his prudent taciturnity, when lie compared the swamping of the Lords to the su mersion of the Royal George.—(Tremendous cheering.) The Right Hon. Gentleman had done him (Mr. Skier) the honour to alvert to him. He (Mr. Shiel) could not te surprised at it, and he could not complain of the manner i a which the Right Hen. Gentleman had done so, espe cially when he remembered the way is which he bad been in the habit of adverting to his former friends.—(Loud cheers.) He (Mr. Shiel) remembered in 1831, a speech made by the Rght Non. Gentleman en Sir James Scarlett, and how did he represent bin? Ho called him ,‘ a renegade Whig."—(Loud ) an T o b r. Right Hon. Baronet might call him (Mr. 6 b l d gentleman to re;ealer, if he liked, when he desig nated whom he sei I he was attached, b e a (Great cheering.) which he surely must now deeply' feL almost too personal He would turn from topics, perhspea,; at i e ?hr a ase the forte of ataleast some excuse for Lie ( Hear, hear)—in which the H had gone too far, there was ! would feel, that if he ighaion. Gentleman subject from which he thought the away. He would turn aFriend, and the Bill of the Noble having done so. He would_ turn utarhne Right those topics to the had lel tl eir ;attention orn for No,th Lancashire. If it • were said Lord the Member his Noble Friend was at variance with the that the Bill f to the 1311 of his Noble quite consistent with that spiri• whiche (e d t n h c o ) .._(Hear, Noble Lord was w oTst it ac i l m es p That Bill left the question of the franchise as it general s pirit ofa Refor•n Act, of course, the Bill of the hear.) rather, it involved it in perplexities still more barrette-- e o s f e t hwhich franchisesur rou h n y d surrounded means it now—it acquisition ordieary claimant could he expected to surmount ; and by miens of an annual revision—let the House mark it—for m atters antecedent to the register, it worried and molested the voter out of the enjoyment of his privileges; 17rnags,tbran those and by these expedients, so discordant with the purposes of the Reform Bill, it contracted • and narrowed the already wasted and shrunk constituencies of Ireland. This appeared to llon. Gentlemen opposite; and to the Right Hon. Baronet, among others, to be cone ni,tent with the spirit of the Reform Bill. Let them on the contrary define the franchise, and they would then re, move the doubts and difficulties founded on questions of value. They would suppress fraud and perjury, and estab lish a qualification independent of the oath of the claimant, and facilitate the acquisition of the franchise by tbo legi timate claimant, while they created a criterion for the qua& fication of a fixed and permanent nature, which would protect the voter when he had acquired the franc hise b y le g itimate means from l e i ng perpetually harassedand tormented. He believed that the Bill of his Noble Friend would raise tile character of the Irish constituencies, and would teed to increase th e wea lth, prosperity, an d remuneration, social, ' political, and moral, of an intelligent people.—( Cheera.) These, however, appeared to Hon. Gentlemen opposite, . objects at variance :with the general spirit of the Re form Bill. Ho (Mr. Shiel) was of a contrary opinion. He regarded the measure of his Noble Friend as one by. which the true spir it of the Reform Bill might be readily , carried into effect. He regarded it as a means of fortify ing the Reform Act against any future and not improbable assaults of the Noble Lord opposite.—(Hear.) Ho regarded it as the means of allaying that ferment which now prevailed in Ireland, and of securing the confidence and attachment of the people at a time while they might have needed them ; and by doing which, he did not he sitate to reply in the words of his Hon. Friend the Mem- e