The Sun. — London, England, 1819-12-10 00:00:00

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" elligen ce pMortal'.`' rtiseif" fiov ich they I prose l ces Nato I s poke' Ford sufferers i to bei Ist 4: 14 ". 2s. 6(l ' oyntent• the e%- act u ring be dis' dispog i " lie prey' chiug oti oy.. • , C 19 0 !NCLISei• gliCtt rifil:1 11(° ti;e tep 'hall by 1(1 ni" 4 he oi° conv' g _ poiog coded t o r , ich lo g PaP ulit !: c 00 1. - m ost ,Ppoint• v Y BiO# de, a t/i I Lint .""" .3. )e 6 (11e : ich 111.` ecn e of 114 35 lle • 'U ; I, tifi) r orr'l at d 16 : L'Ot: (1 clitlrC li 01.1 iti tyre II( lipa -3e(l ti"" lat ?lint lid ',3stirifq vell , 11 V W' Lieli(ll ecei"" pl,cet 16'116 Boor ! ,urreo titt c t) tiief riied w ider )13 10'11' r pit/ ;ir Ya k e d tt it' ItOt re pe r , ' its ' 4l" 0 4 0°1 ; rat ri d ts r e ci ttri" ; t thei c deor e ooy . te G" fr f r 01la $ 0011 ng g he of (P ° en .ita i ) 11‘ arw- - Pl oy i waS to repeal the many the of barbarous ages, which prohibited lArcion, and compelled men leaving the cowl iii;ct" swear that they were not artisans or ma sh,"'inrertl. He did not mean to send then) kiso'vates, where they would have to clear It e, places as, by theld ac- v • "o of their numbers anti talents, wou be ie4lered Mehl colonies to the mother country. q t ,he Rouse did its tinty to restore peace and ti er to th e countr y, i t wou ld entertain the mo ti b i t 'n which h e s hould have the honour to sub- I t ; and happy should he be if so horrible an ti t l i l s an as himself should he m able to lay the first i:fie of th e tem pl e o f peace and hartmy, re 11fied where a system of disunioa and war was t t r i . / ‘‘' so fatally prt - .valent, lie concluded by mov jil ie t, th at ' a C omm i ttee b e appo i nte d t o t ort u r e ,to s the pr esen t state of the manufacturing dis t. turd CASTLEREAGH did not intend to follow o 1-10 0. Gentleman throngit the extensive vat iety t „,,, s4 bit'ets 'which he had enthriteed, and the na -e of which, not With‘tandiog t time of m.ole jlli"tt with which he had spoken, he conceived to 1 1 . calcul a t e d t o c r ea te irritation, rather than to : .stOre trancorilliry. lie had entered the Ilonse , 'Ur tin anxious desire of finding it possible to the Hon Gentleman's motion, and from communication which he had had with tb . l ," Him. 'Member, be had entertained hoPes that 4 " ototicin 'Would' be brought fiirw'ard en such ,2 14 1pe as to allow him to give it his con- I t:Vence ; guarding it, at the same time, in .j ll le il a niiintter 14S not to create a b lief among hnforterttatt - inttividttals now suffering, that tPectnal remedy could be fonnd for an evil 1): 1i cil he feared it was beyond the power of I ) 4 Fnaitent to relie've. For when the Hon. Mein .4!!' said give the people food and employment," t t4 he thi n k th at i t W a S p o ssible for Government 'lto that ?—(Hear.)—it would be wrong to late such an expectation, whi c h, o n the v e ry 11 tt►cipl~ on which Governments existed, could t °rite realised. 13ot, instead of finding the ino iinh Such is he had anticipated, he perceived from r yas sPeech of the Hon. Gentleman, that there lio circumstance of a local and irritating n ature-- no part of the conduct of the ill Hitches- 0 -1. Magistrates and of his Majesty's tier `tray, of l'arliament itself, which, in the e * of the •lionourable Member, ought not t (,) , be mixed op with the discussions of the ili nritte;tip stairs.'---(Hear, hear, beta !)- . --He t retme trusted the House would pause berme Pve a commission of so sweeping a natore to 'l3 ' Chnimittee'vtliatever. The conduct of the 1 1, 54 d July, the proceedings of the M re agisirales, 'tXist eie of Orange Socie.ies, all that could 4" tp excite and embitter • the spirit of party, tat might before the Committee. Could 0 1 ) thing b e no i r e calculates to rouse party against li 3t ts, and prev e ntrlie di•eussiou the great goes u'i itself, than such a course ? He could not ji),hcerve toe possibility of doing greater mischief' restAt from announeing to the people • dlst,rhed districts that a CoMmittee of 51'441-10;1.e...rsis appointed to inquire into all I ,priiiic4;lar ccisnp itnts, that Cal , may pre. .idthess'eq, and cione with AA their 7 t4,4 1 ,0 i t;''1 s.upposed to iiemai:d re -Burfi a coMse Wionid set p•rson a!:itinst -P soh, party agaitiSt - party, and !mead of l ' : t the H o no u rable alea t hyr won't! . - erot a Iran- Cotoni!etet, a 9.1111' , C of :liidtdOr and l en ustoo si•atod be oneoto, eesttlic . 7:veof in o h. ien''ete Zeitit danger. fie F.fi oo l i t 001 hive ( 0 env IniitiOn:whieh would have l,rongltt i!te'iis of ManClacturers in a more distinct befiare the Hous'e, iotd would basic cons red e itilttiry to that great and important object. tst vt:•lieti he found that the present proposi:on io Obtain by an indirect manner or ii'l l " - tvind, the ver y kind of investigation into trinSa'cti6Vs,'Whielt . Parliament had decict ikw'!s only fit'for Courts of Jostice, he could not 'ede to such a tooti(ifi. He thought it would only etileidited to increase the evils of the tines, 41 1 ; 4 trostrd the House Would take the same view subj. e r, ac i d would not contribute to place +ie jt e'oniiify in state of gre'ater discontent than (i W as at present by granting a COnimittee on such/ePing grounds,—(Bear, hear !) r, T. BARING did not understand, from the mo -1,4,' of his Hon. Friend, that he intended to go those politieahquestions which tht Noble se'emed -to anticipate. ills object was to in tl'ulit'e into the comtmrcial iniSfortunes of the lie "try ; but it Was impossible for him to have v - sqed the ci:rctunst slice to the House without ad 4:Plinig to at'e 'existing state of political ciiscon 41S. 1 1 1 c thought, in common decency, the ii e °ll se onght not to separate before the Christmas .veit'llinit making some inquiry into the mi "iiihr - • e st e le of distress which so many thousands t l utetl o n thir—even if that inquiry could out t 0 any practical relief. The disttess of the i i t i o ufatturing classes arose chiefly from a dimi -401°(1 demand in foreign markets ; but a certain t i clinn of distress ma wailed among all people.— ilire Was a woo of peace, quirt, and order, at ti t :, time, in the 11‘ . 41111fileSoring districts, where ta le Piople were in a state of anarchy ; anti if state of things Mi3S not soon altered, Ist "re Would he an end to the manufactures k it the Country, ate great cause of their like l YeY ar o se from those demagogues, or rather erent about inflaming their *2' ll . and telling that a want of radical reform rile cause ise of alltheir sufferings. In most of W„l4 th e Places the picture of that Charlatan, Hunt, 'o l 7:Put up, and he- was held out to the people as Persou who was- to brined ahoy( a state of 111: 1 411 which would relieve them from all their hi: l ' 6 %m {le was himself a moderate Pallia- Vp I , I6 EY Reformer, but nothing except misery t h , , 44 :result ft out such reforms as were now 4.l4`sehed to the people ; and when the present Olitnent was represented as the cause of the ihreision of manufactures, the persons holding tiy ht that -language ought to recollect that it w as 4 14 4 ' (he Paeliament,as at present constituted, that kya Nothhiarthres of the country had flourished incite they did . Th ere was not apart of t h e world front I • Pe llor o to Bffi s Bay, io which out maim ‘)l.4 Ys Were not purchased, and under a system regulations, and permanent tututpillity, tl t doubt but there would he a st, ifi e te i n " k,„, " 0 in other countries for all our mabutaa t'tireS. He did 'not approve of holdiWg out the idea t hat t he wealthy people in the manufacturing districts were the enemies of the poor labcotrinst manufactorers. it was quire the reverse, for ttsese were the persons W)ho gave them employment. — (Hear, hear !)—Taese were the persons who sup ported them. In contegoence, however, of the unhappy state of the anarchy that prevailed in he manufacturing distrie , s, these, and many other wealthy persons, were now going away from the places whose rosperity they hitherto upheld.— They were investing their capitals in foreign funds ; some were even 'adopting plans of emigra tion, and a sort of general feeling, of snare q ui petit, scented to prevail aniort4 them all. He was not prepared to ree,rintneted any particolar measures for the relict of those distresses which prevailed among the people. God forbid that he should not feel for them the strongest sympathy, and if any thing in the way ut contribution was proposed, if it was Suggestet: that one or two millioos of money should he granted for the alleviation of the Miseries complained of, he would be the last man in that flotte to !rinse his assent to it. Grants, Were, he believed, Made by the (loose before exigencies of lesF importance ; would not say how tar such a measure might he efficient; indeed, when one came to consider it in detail, he would not be ilfelined its expect muds permanent good from a measure of t!,at description. There was another subject which- he also thought was at resided with no inconsiderAfe. difficad.y, lie . . meant the ex pefliency radial:mot sty lute! terenee with the general :,tateu,l wages. Ile w.suld not go so far as to say that the L-gislature °ugh' to abstain altogether from cootemplatiog the subject, and though he was mice of a different opiiii6n, yet there were some extraordinary circumstances in ti!is case, which would induce him at least to go into 'an inquiry. —(Hear !) The state of the wages was intimately connected with the Poor Laws ; in truth, it was Ibis con nection, or rather the Poor Laws themselves, that involved the subject in so much difficulty, for they urged the eosin, ry into a system altogether artifi cial. The tirstorttines arising from them were manifest front this. Let it he supposed, that upon ihe whole, there were in employment 100,00 weavers, and that by some fatal occurrence 20,000 of these were suddenly deprived of occupation ; the difficulty of finding subsistence would not tall upon these I wenty thousand only, but would be extended to the whole hitudred thousand ; for th . e stippiy of labour becoOthig snore abaltdant the dethand Would be satisfied upon terms more disadvautageons to the whole bo , iy. It men of large capitals, under such circumstances, continued their former rates of wages, • they cont,hil with disadvantage to them selves, against the men of small capitals, who wo:dd go about the country and pick up workmen at t to lowest rates possible. fie should be sorry to pledge iiiittSelt to airy' decided opinion, yet . he thought it might be desirable to inquire at least how far it would be itactically useful to establi•ls iniairnasn of wages.—(Hear, hear I)—He Would toilet; the subject with great reluctance, but he► was anxious to hear the large manufacturers upon it. It was not improbable in his mind, that the currency question entered into this subject to some extent. lie could not help thinking, that the distresses which prevailed since the peace, %vete more or !ess connected et ith the state of the currency. Upon that question he admit ted it was right to return to some perthaneOt standard. A difference necessarily was produc• elf in tie currency, by haying that standard which had existed during the war ; the evil cousevences which such a difference gave rise to, could only ha tie been remedied by adopt. log a depreciated coinage ; if souls a meaSnre could have been at all justifiable. 'llse in. , st sen sible result, however, w.s, that 25 per cent. wait added to the National Debt. This had, of itselt a further conseqoeuce in increasing - the circulating medium, and the facility of getting money, tended to increase it more, because the greater the faci lity which any Mao had in getting Money at the bankers, the less was his neses-ity to keep any large saris by hint, and consequently the amount of the circolatitig medium became larger. How ever, he should not now cuter farther into - the tioes!ion. The Legislature adopted a certain line of conduct upothit, and as it was begun they were now boond to go on —(ilear, hear!)—He would not say that the standard should he higher than at fOrmer •periods, or that the facility of getting money should be lessened. But he ,could not avoid observing, that if. the Bank of England were e,m.powered to pay in silver, as well as in gold, it would aff;rd them a Material facili - y in meeting the wishes of Parliament. He hoped that the Committee which his lion. Friend had asked would be granted, but he hoped that it would be a commercial, not a political Com mittee. Such a concession was essential to the subordination, peace, and security of tlie Counts y, tholigh he hoped that the House would not be driven, as was insinuated by an HoO. Member, to a choice bet wren the commerce and the roost tuition of the conotry. Both, Ise trusted, would go hand in hand together, as before. He could never despair of the restoration of order, while he re collected that the morals of the people remained sotind.—(Hear !)—The evils which occurred, such as they were, were still nothing, when con pared with those which had taken place at former times and in other countries.--([fear !) Mr. B. WILBRAHAM complained that the mo tion had not beets confined, as he understood it would he, to objects of a commercial nature. — With respect to the tnininium of wages alluded to by the Honourable Gentleman who had last spoken, two Committees bad already been ajO• pointed, at vations times, at the des're of the Cotton Weavers, to- ascettain whether a mini- Mum ought to be established, but their opinion had been contrary to ti:e measure. He believed that the persons who were the most distressed, were those of whom the country heard the leasto•-• (Hear, hear !)—lle then Contended that there was not a Gentleman in the county of Lancaster, whom the House might wish to he in the Com mission ot the Peace, that was not already there ; and that the t egulasion established by Mr. Perce• vat, that no•Geotleman engaged in business should be made a Magistrate, lest differences respect• Isis own %cos kmen, or those of others, should Come betute 'War, • was - strictly obsittved. With respect to the precession of an Orange Society at Liverpont, and the sermon preached on the. occasion, all he knew was, that persons belong . - inv. - to such a Society had been foolish enough to march in prOcession through the sireets, that they had been Severely pelted, anti that the of tenders had been hi ought to justice and ptinished. Their being attacked was n ntisloroute, and not an offence. At the Same time he did not mean to approve of any thing tending to keep up the dis tincrions•of party. The next object of the Hon. Mover bad been to fiiid it new municipality for the town of Manchester; but as !hat town hail (lon rished for many years order the old, hetrol not see the necessity of in , sking' arty 4herati,,n. The Boroughreeves, two Constables, nod the Deputy Constahlel, were chosen at the 'Court-leer of the Lord of the Manor, who ‘vai Sir Oswald Moseley. As to procuring work of a different kind front their own for the onemploy,a ininutacturers, he vas afraid that it woobi prodoee but little relief. Many of them bid tried it, but from the effect of the shuttle on their hands, they bad become unfit for other work, and bad at last returned to their own. Mr. WILBEWFORCH wished that all the deceivers of the people, as well as the r:eluded, had been present to hear the excellent speech of his lion. Friend Olt% Baring). There was no lostatice of a country attaining to glory, and even to inde pendence, without a sane tespect for religion. Oh ! that those who were endeavouring to shake the attachment of the people to all that they might to hold dear here and hereafter, had heard Honourable Friend express his conviction of the importance and necessity of Religion to the prosperity of a Stale. He then expiessed his hope that something could be done to re lieve the distressed. It might be true that some individuals could not turn their hands to other labours, but many might do so if employmeot were procured for them. To ascertain, the meaos of fiartiog this, he understood was to have been the object of the proposed Committee ; but to in troduce any subjectssuch as had been mentioned, would not only defeat that &jeer, but point dis satisfaction more directly against that Hoose.— He then alluded to the distresses in the West of Scotland, where the people had displayed a cha racter superior to that of his own countrymen,-- Where they had been men bearing as it were the mark of (it'd, the curse of Cain conic against them with doctrines of irreligion and blas phetny, the effect produced had been the deepest disgust, and they , had said the liberty which you promise us cannot be good, since it is not founded on the belief of God. He was convinced that no change of Ministry , would satisfy the disturbers of the people, and that they would only despise the House for applying what they would term such wretched palliatives to the evils of ‘the State. With respect to the existing distress, it was, no doubt, to a cousiderable extent, the consequence of the long war in which we had been eugagea, Should new troubles arise to threaten the continuance of peace, might it serve as n . bi'acon to guide our cOndoct ! Wars were visitations front God, and on the principles of Almighty jnsiice, • calamities were dealt not to the conquered alone, but also to the comities or. lie then contended, that Parliament had, till the present time, neglected the great and import ant duty of attending to the education of the poor. Where people were destined to possess a great degree of liberty, there must be a certain degree of moral edueitiiirn to enable them to en joy it. Things of this kind had hitherto been too notch left to themselves, and the results were now felt. For if a roper notion of the sacred :less Of property had been given to the 'people, would they have passed such resolutions as those by which they had disgraced themselves at Barnsley Mr. I i k4ILLIPS was glad to see th'at one good effect at least Was likely to follow from the ob servations of his Honourable Fiend (Mr. Ben net), namely, the stoppression of Orange Societies. Such, he hoped, would be the consequence of the expression Of the opinion of (hr Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Wilbraham,) who naturally poSsesied touch influence in his part of the country. The [lon. Gentleman then prOceetled to support the :notion, believing that a Committee would tend rather to calm di%content than to inflame it. Mr. S. WunTLEY believed that much of the dis content in the manufacturing districts, arose fron► the absence of persons of property. The chain of insuboldioation was not complete. There was no regular giadation from the cottage to the Throne. In other countries the peasant looked up to the farmer—the farmer to the gentleman—Hie gentle man to the Peer ; but here order was broken ; they were principally mechanics, who saw no perion between them and the Crown, and looked upon themselves as entitled to share those hinds wliose proprietors they solinosed were engaged only in luxury and idleness. Hence they would not be satis fied with a moderate Reform in Parliamen►. They woold ask that the whole Constitution should be surrendered. This was language with which the 'l oo se could not parley. He was sorry to perceive that these doctrines received the sanction of a Gen tleman who was a candidate for a seat in this House at the last Election for \Ves►minster, and who, he had reason to believe, was the author of a pamphlet, entitled, " A trifling Mistake in Tho. teas Loril Erskine's Address to the People." Here the Honourable Member read several passages fron► the pamphlet, to show the violent de L :ree of Reform which the author recommended. Among 'the rest, was a passage to the•fnllowing effect What prevents the people from going dote') to the House of Commons, pulling out the Members by the ears . , locking the door, and carrying; away the key ?"—(A laugh )—The work recommended, in the most distinct manner, to reform that House by brute force.--(Hear !)—Did this look like moderate reform, he would ask ; or could any composition he inatfe with Reformers who held such doctrines ? Under such cir•en n tstances, tht re fore, any concession on the part of the House would be but weakness. Ile was convinced that a vet y great majority of the people Were influenc ed by such writings to wish for a Reform, and .it was because he knew that the oftener the goes lion was agitated the inure the people's minds would be opened, that he wished for dlscussion in that House on reform. Nothing was farther from his 14 than a persuasion that a Reform in this House would relieve the discontents of the people : for he was sure their leaders were not sincere in looking for it. Uri the contrary, there wete arson; it them those wl*made that ohj,ct H pretence for pursuing the worst designs against the Government or the country. Mr. MAXW ELL coutentled that the inattention of l'arliament to the wants of the people was a great cause of the little conflience the people bad in this House. It was full time for the House to redeem its character; gild no opportunity could be more fitting Ilia" the locAent, 'when tie mouse Slitodd by an inquiry give grave proofs of a dispo- Sition to ameliorate :he conditioo "of the people, and more particularly in the mauntactutiog dis tricts. "rbe Logo ADVOCATE objected to the Motion. lie took a review of the state of Scotland, about which there had been much mis•statement. The weavers had beet► distreSsed, because wages fell ; they etoleavonredto make it up by longer hours, which increosed the quantity of produce already too great, and heightened the distress in propor tion. The spinuers had to wait for water, so that they could not overstock the market ; hence the wages had - remained, in some cases, as high as 40s. per week, yet there was a greater proportion of Radicals among them than the weavers. The colliers at Sc.otland were %vat se ; they were at present very well off, but at the -beginning of Majesty's reign they %vete mere slaves to the several collieries, and could be brought back, if they ventured to leave their prOper owners, same manlier as slaves. Nay, worse ahad that if an old pit had begun to work anew, the colliers formerly belonging to it, could be broa'glit back., and compelled to work in it. The Parliament had jitit them on the same footing as the'other in habitants of the kingdom, and had, moreover, rendered null and void certain bonds for money, entered into by the colliers, to fulfil the condi tion of their former slavery, and yet there were among them the most radical traducers of that Parliament which had so emancipated them. Ra dicalism had spread even into the I lighlands, and in great measure tainted that gallant and loyal people. Leagues were formed bet we,,n thematic! the Radicals ; Union Societies'for reading and discours ing Radical Politics were formed, and so were schools for teaching the doctrines all over Scotland. The decay of religion was manifest. Weavers worked all clay on Sunday ; many %vlio used to go to church spent the forenoon in talking politics. At Paisley, a riot, commenced on Saturday, con tinued throughout Sunday : the house of a Minis ter was attacked. The same thing had taken. place at Glasgow. The Lord Lieutenant of La narkshire had written to him to say, that, with out an addition to the military force, he could not answer for tlie peace of the county. lie did, not charge the Radicals with turbulence generally : there was rather au ominous silence iii their de meanour, as it some extraoroinary objet weight ed on their miuds, lied great hopes, hOwever, in the vigorous measines . Goverom - ent were about to adopt, together with the vigilance of the Ma gistrates and the general good sense of the Peo ple, for restoring the Country to tranquillity. As to emu:illation, it was 'cut of the question, time Radicals renounced their terrific pro!essions„ and she wed Weir submission to ti.c laws. Mr. auce, in a speech of considerable length, gave an account of an expeiiinent he had procured to be tried at Coventry since last Session, anti which had stfececded beyond his hopes. They had relirvrtl tt- distressed and raised their wages (having provided a food to support those who might be thrown out of einpinyment) ; and the consequence was that this fund was hardly touch ed, and when an itinerant demagogue visited Co ventry not two hundred persons were tempted to attend to hint and Radical Reform. This he contended was a pattern to Government to treat the general distress hi the manntic !tiring districts throughout the kingdom. With regard to the commercial distress, he conceiv ed h would he paria!ly relieved by an in ere ise of esports, When the over specula , ion and supply wt is was run into at the close of the w ir was exhausted ; tin! certainty not to the exient contemplated by those who fancied we should re turn to the same prosperity as when we engrossed the monopoly of the whole world_ lie e-mplain ed strongly of the Woal Tax, to which he attii barted much of the untonfacturing distress ; and said if the Chancellor of the Exchequer woull take off he tax on Si:k, he would be bound that a port of compe would soon be Opened against France. Bot the weight of taxation was the great source all ill,. etil. Tie restoration of our standard cur rency had raised the taxes '25 per cent. and if the manufacturers were not relieved, the effect Wont(' be fatal in the home, and particularly in the foreign marke , s. It was thus that Holli;nd was redimed from wealth to beggary. The Honourable Gen tleman mentioned a fact, existing with his own kaowledge, which he reproved, as offeting a dis couraging example to the country. Noble Lords, connected with the Right 1. - lon. Ministers oppo site, bad been, during the week, selling largely out of the public funds for the purpose of investing their capital on French security. This was calcu lated to have a very bad effect, and create muck apprehension. If tiie Noble Lords were alarmed, th e y ought at least to take care not to spread that contagion through the populatiun. Mr. P'sEl, would take this opportunity of ex plain;ng au opinioo of his, addressed to the Llouse a few nights ago, which had been very much mis represented within the House. It had been im puted to him, that he said that the Mose ot Com mons should soon make its iiptino between a c oo. tinuance of British Ilkanufacthres, an.l of the thi tish Constitution. lie had said Ho stick thing. What he said was Oil's, that while persUus who were wicked enough to make a Fade of the distresses of ttle country, were suffered to go about poisoning the minds of the ms toe.a(torers, he viewed the manufacturing Listriets with appiihension and alarm. He saw causes operating in those dist, iris to cause great local distress ; and while these (Us tresses were made, the instrument of creating sedition, he felt very great a l arm on account of the sofferers, and the probable consequences to the country at large. Ile did never drink that the continuance of British manufactures was in conaisle-ut. with the continuance of the British Constitytion ! , If f:vcts be thought so, the senti.