The Sun. — London, England, 1819-05-25 00:00:00

rll+l the other " Hont and his adherents, , "'et t t)( 'se" I , " l .tieg down the fabric which had It raised bY inumotal Pitt, and which had s e,l the tra , , e , the mannfactures, and the very • sl-'rtiCC t) c . the Sate. He appeared this night, was erfuscious, iu an extraordinary character. fie Cato.(' to opoose a dear relative ; but he had a duty to pe,iorm, and he respected those who per 7 t(oeted what they conceived , o be theirs.—(Hear. i;t at , !tear !)---The Gentlemen who had opposed lint ; , t the tueetioe had rather been indignant at roottion of Mr - . Pitt. Bat seine allowance slotahl be made for partialities. He had always con,ideren Mr Pitt as t;e first man in the world. lIt• tem( othtier!, dial when that relation whom he this night Opposed, was only a child in his arms, he had thooaht that a man who s hould dis cs, ,ree his iiitty tri the coawry as Mr. Pitt had thee, would he most to be admired and imitated. lie had then declared, that it his son should live, he should present hint to his cou n try. He had no ,, e so, and never repeottd his resolution.— ( Near, hear, hear 1) ---Though he might differ in • opinion with him, he still respected the man who was governed by a sense of ditty. And as he considered that the heed and the heart of that re lative were in the right place, he felt confident that if he had deviated a little trom propriety, he would soon be restored. He should say no more upon the subject, but reserve himself for another opportunity. He then moved that the petition be brought up, Sir J SEBUIG'HT contended, that the Hon. Ba ronet could not have read the evidence carefully, when he had said that none of the 1.,- , nolon mer chants had been consulted. It did not follow, however, that because a man night be a manu facturer or a trader, he should he the best judge on the subject. As to Hunt and IVooler, he was no follower of theirs ; but he looked at measures, an:l not men, and he under Stood that on that rte.- casion - t keir conduct did them great honour. They ha l maiotaintd that greater power had been en trosted to the Book of England than ought to have been committed to any body of men. As long as Hunt and Wooler entertained such prin ciples, he should act with tliem —(Laughter.)— He concurred entirely with the Hon. Baronet in all that he had said respecting his relation. The ivitole country felt the merits of that distinguished iodividua!, and if there was an opportunity in which he hail stood forward, and merited the gra ti:nde of the nation, it was the present. He should also take this occasion of expressing his respect for the judgment which his Majesty's Mi nisters had displayed, as well as their magnani mity, and he trusted that they would have the cordial support of the House. Mr. GiteNFELL could not suffer the idea to go to the House, that the petition expressed in any manner the sense of that body which the Hon. r Baronet had represented as its author. It was not, signed by one-fourth of those who constituted the merchants and bankers of the Cilt of Lon don. Had the lion. Baronet read the evi dence on which the Report was founded, when he said that Co In 11 - 1 reld I men had not beets consult. ? If he had read it, could be have forgotten such names as Mr. Baring and others. fully able ,to attortl the best information on the•sobject ? ir. filatte.vaTT contendei, that after the most careful examination of the testimonies adduced, be could nut find one witness whose evidence was not in pert et contradiction to that of another. The petition was then brought up, read, laid on the table, ane ordered to be printed. ..CASI-1 PAYMENTS. On the motion of Mr. Et., the House re solved itself into a Committee of the whole House, on the Report of the Bank Committee. Mr. Pset. ruse.—He could not conceive it pos sible that an individual should be placed in a'situ ation which rendered an appeal to the indulgence of the House wore necessary than that in which he now stood. He was about to 'perform a duty which devolved upon hint as Chairman of a Com mittee. He had to call the attention of the House to a subject, which in his conscience he consider ed most important, and which was interwoven with the highest and the lowest transactions of the country. This subject, at no remote distance, had occupied the attention of Parliament. It in volved principles of an abstruse nature, and de-' tails uninviting and tedious. It had exhausted the abilities in that House, and whatever could be said upon it had already been said in the best manner. He would ntl.ot supply any novelty to it by a reference to party feelings. if he did so, be should be an unworthy Chairman of a Com mittee from which such feelings had been entire ly dismissed. He had never seen a Committee rise more seperior to party, and more completely devote its attention to the public good.—(Hear, bear, hear !)—He had to submit to the House a set of Resolutions, adopted almost unani mously, for the Right Honourable Gentleman op posite (we understood Mr. Tierney) had'alone re corded his dissent. Yet though almost unani mous, many of those who felt lisposed to concur in the 'measure, might in some particulars be op posed to the principle on which it was founded.— Tttis relieved bins from much embarrassment. — His ,prech would be only that of an humble in dividull expressing his own.opinion, and respon sible for whatever errors he might commit. He would fairly declare, that since be bad entered the Committee his own opinion had experienced a change.—(ilear, hear had entered it with the intention of entirely obliterating from his mind any former vote which be might have gikcn. lie openly avowed that his sentiments \VC Ile had voted against the Reso lutions proposed by Mr. Horner in 1811 and if they were proposed again he might vote against the pretclica; measure, but he was bound as an Itonest 111)_ to declare that with some slight -qua lifications he perfectly concurred in their princi ply. He brought without shame and repentance ! hi s ( dbto e the grave of one from whom he diflerfA, but whose abilities be ad roi;-:!d, and whose tharocter lie respected.—(Hear, ;test lie should now come to the subject of his ri,otion. lie hod isoptd, that alter expressing the opinion that cast., payments should he resumed, rotiHot; koold remain but the mode and the time rt resumiug them. 13ut• he could not conceal - ;tom himself that sentiments seemed to be enter taioto, which, if adtnitted, would lead to indefi ohe resiricsiows.—ijleat, heat l)—Judging from publications, by wbirb, he feared, the public mind was influenced, if the House gave way to influence. it must be prepared to legislate for indefinite res , rictions. This was the reason why be thought it necessary at the very outset to make tip one's mind' either to have a metallic currency or a piper system. He therefore called upon the 1-louse, in his second resolution, to de chre shether it would or wonlil not have a•me citculating. medium. \V is it possible that the system corried mt for the last 20 years could %—(Hear, hear!)-Could the coun try rein in without a metallic standard of value, to vrhirh all her barters and transactions should he teleried 1 He 'eppe3led to the country itself before the year 1797. and ro all writers oti ticed economy. They all recognised that a me tallic stanched ought to 1w the basis of a paper currency. All the witoe:ses were agreed on that _ _ point, with Ole exception of one man, a very re sprerible eia er, who declared himself for an indefinite restriction. He was asked, whether he nnhl have no standard of value ? He replied that he would have the pound But on being asked what a round was, he could not describe it, but said that every Gentleman knew what it wa3—(Latightet)—that it had existed 800 years ago, 300 years before gold had been introduced into this kingdom. lie (Mr. I'.) turned front the doctrine of 'Smith to Locke, and after hollowing the latter through all his researches into eternity and the heavenly bodies, he found him compelled to ackno►vledge, that a certain quantity of gold bullion was the 'only standard of value. This dot:trifle had been adopted by all countries, and even by England previous to J 79.7. What had been our system since that period It would not decrease our difficulties to shrink' fron► looking them in the face.—(Hear, hear !)—Evi:ry foreign Jew would detect the fallacy. By the present system, our circulating med.stin was entrusted to the Bank of En,,land., and to six or seven bun- tired country bankers, whose issues were regu lated by those of the Bcik. On .what did the Bank ground its issues ? Either on the pu rc hase of gold, the discount of good bills, or in Go vernment securities. But what had their issues been founded on, during the last few years ? Not on the purchase of gold, but ou Govetn ment securities. In 1811 those issues had amounted to 35,000,0001.. In 1818, the issues on Government securities were 20 000 0001. and the whole issues of the Bank 25,000,0001. What were those Government securities on which the advances were made ? They were not drawn on existing taxes pledged for that purpose.— They were Exchequer Bills, representing taxes which were not yet voted. What difference, therefore,, could he seen between issues matte by the Bank on Government securities, and issues made direct by the Government itself ? If the latter plan were adopted, an inte rest of three and a half per cent, on the whole would be saved to the country. What did the public creditor receive', if be applied for the payment of his debt ? Bank notes. What remedy could he procure if he did not re ceive them ? Had he any other than to decline taking his money till the Cash Payments should be resumed ? It would be said that the Bank was safe, and that no fear need be entertained of its solvency. This he fully admitted, but was that any argument against excessive issues On her part If it was, then were those of law well founded. But he contended that the best security would be for the pound to be at par with gold--(Hear, hear, bear !)—lt was impossible to look at the history of the country for the last three years, and not to desire to put an end to the present system. In 1814 and 1815 there had been a considerable increase in the circulating Medium. Every thing then appeared to prosper, and our imports and ex ports to augment. In 1816 and 1817 the natural results of the system were telt. Languor pervaded the country, property was accumulated to a great amount, but there was no demand, the Country Banks having reduced their circulation. In 1817 and 1818 the country began to recover. The cir culating medium was once more increased. Pre vious to 1814, the issues of the Bank did not ex ceed 23 millions. In 1815, they'were brought to between 25 and 26. In 1816 they were limited to 26; but in 1817 they were pushed to 29 mil. lions, besides a larger issue of gold. Speculation revived ; prices having suddenly risen, all were eager to take advantage of the change. Country Bankers lent their capital, and the same scenes were acted over again. Prices sunk a second time; corn fell so low as 30 or 40 per cent. and he feared misery would ensue, he would not say to the same extent, but from the same cause. If he looked at the evidence, , evidence which must satisfy even his Hon. Friend-=but he was sorry to find that his Hon. Friend (Mr. Marryatt, who was supposed to be asleep) did not seem to take as much interest in the evidence as its importance required—(Laughter !)—if he' looked at the evi dence of Mr. Gladstaue, and read that in 1817 the importations of corn and other articles from Le land at Liverpool, amounted to I,2oo,ooo—that in 1818 they reached I,9oo,ooo—that in 1817, 315,000 bales of cotton were imported into that town, and in the ensuing year 421,000, it would Appear that there was a great increase in trade.— But the consequence was that prices fell, :hat the demand ceased, and that there was in the port of Liverpool an accumulation of goods to the amount of three millions beyond the quantity re ceived in 1817. These vacillations of trade might be of little importance to the State, hut how deeply did it not derange all the relations of so ciety ? Au one time there was an excessive de mand for labour; at another there was none. He wished to speak boldly : he would not conceal the impression which his Mittid had received.— (Hear!) —It was impossible to hear the statements contained in the petition from Carlisle without perceiving there was something unsound in the system.—(Hear, hear !)—Our prosperity' might appear great from the Custom-house return ; but the state of the poor, the distresses of the indus trious, anti the stnount of the pools' rates, would show whether the present system was perfece,Tor not. —(1-lear, hear!)—lt had within itself no cowl- . teracting principle. It adnduistered excitement to excitation, anti where it round a disposi tion to speculate, it increased it. Then all demand ceased,, r and lanit spread itself through , ()twilit: country. Bankers were obliged to eon tract their issues to the size of the times. — They even made demands on those that were sol vent, in order to provide for their own safety, and all was distress and desolation. If these were the consequences of the Restrictions, should we not look our difficulties in the face.—(Hear, hear, hear !)—Let not the House nor the Conetry judge of the future by the past. Hitherto we had always kept a bright point in view, the re sumption of Cash Payments,. It had operated as a check on the issues of the Bank. But if once we said they never should he renewed, we should leave the Bank not only to its own discretion in the amount of its issues, but to be guided by the necessity of fulfilling the obligation which it had contracted with its own Proprietors, of consider ing their individual interest. He should there fore call on the House to declare that it was deter. mined to put an end to the Restrictions. This was the reason why it was incumbent on the Committee to propose some steps to show that it was really intended Cash Payments should be re sumed. The Committee bad several alternatives. It might have selected one of four courses. It might have contented itself with a declaration, that Cash Payments could not yet be renewed, but must at some future period be resumed. But if the Committee had only clone that, would any man have believed that it was in earnest ? What had happened during the' last few days had served to convince him that Parliament " must screw its courage to the sticking place." Until the late discussion in another place, the impression produced on the public mind was, that the subject would not be pressed far ther titan the Reports of the Committees. Should this House not take some steps of a more decisive nature, the same opinion would again prevail.— On five occasions, the House had already declar ed that Cash Payments should be resumed. That opinion had been expressed by a Right Hon. Frieml of his in 1811, though since that period the restriction had been five times renewed. An other alternative was for the Legislature to tix some Other period for the Resumption of Cash Payments, at which the Batik should he compell ed to return to the ancient practice. home, ever, would put it, to the HpuSe if it would he well that they should take such a course--if it would be wise for one body to adopt a certain sys tem, and compel another body, through whom the plan was to he carried into effect, to act-on it, even though the principle of the measure was not good, according to their view of the subject— was one in which they - could not concur. The Bank did not consider that they had it in their power at any time to regulate the price of gold by the issues of their notes. In a resolution which had been come to by the Court of Direc tors, it was declared, " That this Court cannot refrain from adverting to an opinion that had got abroad, that - at any time the Bank has only to restrain its issues to diminish the price of gold, and after giving the subject the most attentive con sideration, they have been unable to discover that this opinion rests on any solid foundation." He blarned not the Bank for entertaining this opinion, and as lie bad already stated to them, it appeared unjust to look to them to act on a principle which they could not approve. A third alternative might have been found in positively limiting the amount to which their notes should he issued. This, how ever, he thought would at all times be found most unwise. It was impossible to say what amount of n otes would be required at any given period by the circumstances of the country ; it a run, as it was called, on the Bank, would sometimes cause a very different issue, of notes to be called for at one time, from that which was wanted at another —if there were a demand on the Bank, such as was known in 1797, when the market price of gold did not exceed the mint price, the Bank might issue notes to any amount, with perfect safety; but if, on the contrary, there should be a drain on it, from the unfavourable state of the exchanges and the high price of gold, then the evil could be corrected in no way but by diminishing the num ber of their notes in circulation. Since then, at various periods, their situation was likely to be so very different, it was impossible to say what num ber of notes ought to be issued at any given time. That question must be decided- by circumstances, as nothing could be inferred frorn the mere nomi nal amount of their issues at any time. A fourth alternative presented itself, which had been adopt ed by the Committee. That plait would be foetid embodied in the resolutions which lie should this, night have the honour to move. This was founded on the principle, that the Bank should be obliged, from regard for their own interests, to regulate their issues by the price of gold, and, in feel - , act on the same principles which governed their conduct before the passing of the Bank Re striction Act in 1797. The Committee had found the Bank in this situation, possessing treasure, less in amount perhaps than would be wanted if they, were to resume cash payments, while the maker price, fur the last three months, wits con siderably above the Mint price, being 4/. Is per ounce. It was found also that the Batik had ad vanced to the public considerable sums of money, which they were desirous should be repaid. Un• de'r these circumstances, it was thought .advisable that the period of resuming Cash Payments should be postponed to a day more distant than had. ever been contemplated before the late Com mittee sat. They proposed, therefore, to allow the Bank nearly four years, before they should be required to resume Cash Payments, but doing this, they thought it necessary to adopt measures that should convince the Public that it was in tended really to return to payments in specie, when the period now fixed upon should expire. It was unnecessary for him to go at length into the details of time plan suggested by the Committee for effecting the object in view, as every one who heard hint must be acquainted with it. It was known that it was proposed that the Bank should commence paying their notes in bullion to be issued at that which was lately the market price of gold, from the ISt of February, 1820—that there should be one interanediate stage between that and a return to the Mint price, and that they should he provided to pay in gold bars, to be issued at 31. 17s. 10d. per oz. ~by the Ist of May, 1821. It was true that they required the Bank to provide gold ro pay their notes in two years from the present time ; but then it was . under certain modifications which tirade it probable that the demand upon them would. be mach less than that which they would have to nice! if t'tcy were required to pay in coin. As part of tlps plans and as preliminary to the resumption of cash payments, it was proposed that a ronsidterab 4 portion of the advances made to the pnblir by the Bank should be rcpattl. No ieConSiderable alarm .existed on this subject, which in his opinion had been much misunderstood. It was supposed that the Committee recominended the immediate repayment of 10,000,0001. to the kink, tend that so much must be forthwith withdrawn from the currency of the country, and this it was concluded, and very jast ly enmity-kali would produce much entharrassm:nt and mere cantile distress ; but this formed no part of the plan of the Committee. 'they ouly wished that provision should he made for the gradual relay' meta of the sum which hail been mentioned, and nothing appeared in their Report that implied at' opinion on their part that the whole of lb, 10,000,0001. must necessarily be repaid before the period at which the &ask should be requited to recommence cash-payments. The early red , payment of this sum the Committee had thought it right to recommend, because it was earnestly desired by the Batik, and if demanded, thrl thought it but right that Parliament should pro' vide for its repayment before they called upon them to act on the plan suggested in the Re.. port.. Though it was not in t '••w Of the ‘oh" ject necessary that the whole of the 10.000,0 01 . should be repaid before the return to cash p ments, he was of opinitn On ot r ounds it wall desirable that a cont•itler4ide stun should b , paid. It was impo-sible to ts,vert to a paper which bad been lab , ou the tattle of ;he House that day without, ter lift;; an earnest desire to z ee the relations now existing between the Gre , ero' men' and the Bank materi:ally chani.;f hear I)—Tt!at Horse ought to have tut power of limiting the duties of the .Bauk to Cie consiik" ra•ion of those subjects which i.at•i el:tinted their care. Id the paper !Jest -wed that Clay, wltch contained RepoA o f t h e p r ,, cet tlingf at the Bank On iiic ...!LttL weich had been hod before the Chatiedot of the Exchequer, he fouls& the following p a e,, ge ,iph Under these impressions, the Directors of the Pal/S think it ri4lit to ok,vrve to his Majesty's Nlini,ters, ti rem ing engaged to pay tot demand tt,eir notes in statutaitH. at the Mint price of :it. 17s. lqd per owlets, they be the last persons 'mho should object to any measure eater culated to effect that e d ; but as it , s incumbent un them I. consider the effect of any tit , ..sores to be adopted. as opera!' ing nit the g etreill issue 1,1 their aot,s, which +:l iirl" vate Banks are regllated, and of snitch the w ho re c,trrcoqf exclusive of the :totes of primate banktrs, is codiposed, flat feel themselves obliged iii the new situation in which have been placed by (tie lt. stlictron Act of 17-97, to ' , m ,41 1 'lliad not le,s thew duties to : the establisha,eat user they preside, than their dunes to the community at !3 , -! C ° whose interests, in a pecuniary aid commerAil rela: , t l : 4 `, have, in a great degree, been confided to their Uisca —On reading this he preferred no comp out against the Bank. • He did nft advert to f' throw any imputations on the pl. cc ins 0; 4 0C Establisliment, but he felt that the ..s:-.eitott which it contained was a melancholy truth ; ha , e , wisnu the House to relieve 'them ( 10 , 1 , rl, t 7 ,'utsr which hail been thus thrown upon the was iulpossible for him, recollecting the e4c , l'he stances under which it was established sinteoli after the Revolution of 1688, not to fed a ;0 o' r interest in the prosperity of the batik of 1 7 .irW. - land. From his knowledge of the 13,e,k he felt great individual interest in the success et their establishment, but they could not be stir" prised it doing every justice to their motives, there conduct, like that of every other pubtic hody, - came the subject of inquiry In reacting dra g paper to which he had adverted, it Aas bee " 4 he telt that it stated the troth,. that a str.)ag impression on his wind was made as to the 11e' cessity of relieving them front the ditty of attend" lug to the concerns of the votottry at large."'" It was the duty of Parliament, tutd not o' th° Bank, to take care ,of the pectoti icy snd coo° . mercial concerts of the nation geiieially_ 1 • ° it not he thought that he bi.ini,4l k wu ell he said this, but be certainly brought 11.11 it oil . the duty of the Legislature to enleasout, great exertion, to resume. that duty which its thus been delegated to the Batik. On this grouty b lie most earnestly recommended an caily leper meta of the advances made by the Batik, thout4 li be did not consider the repayment of the wil 10,000,0001. necessary before the res,quptiou cash payments, unle,s it should be insisted 0 111 by the bank. He now wished the House to 10 4 at the practical cousequences that would flow 11° ns the adoption of the plan recommended by t ba Committee, in order to ascertain if the 4 10 0 ► which had gone abroad were well or ill-forinde ds Suppose the repayment of the 10,000,0001. trees , to be effected in the course of two years, in par merits of from four to 500,0001. per mouth. A' Bank would•commence paying their notes in lion in February 1820, in gold bats, to be takr 4 at the rate of 4/. is. per ounce, and front the 1 4 of October following, at 31. 19s. 6d. per ounce it hot while doing this, and receiving, the sums 1 0 , had mentioned in repayment of the advances had made, should a contraction of the curresel to that amount necessarily follow, could not th ° Bank 4 on receiving a payment of half a tuilnossA expend it iu bullion, or lay out halt of it in t. 131 5. purchase of gold, and the other half in '4 ll ' . counting bills' as usual ? There was no necesoti," as it appeared to him, for them to diminish the: issues by one single shilling. He was not 0 1 ' 4 tail that they might not even be incress e , tinder the proposed system. He would that'll* plore the House not to be led away by clatuod!: he implored them seriously to consider the we ll ! • of the case for themselves, and to look into 0' and see if the resolutions which he was about t ti c propose, might not be carried into effect, 11 ° .‘ only without contracting the currency, but , manner perfectly consistent with its increas e ' They were told that the object of the Contralti was to tie down-the Bank issues to the price 0.. gold, and to compel them to diminish the cur :Tiny down to the present price of gold: o° i this argument, if it were good for any thing , would apply for ever to a - resumption of casb payments. If the evils ant:cipated would flow 00 . 01 the Bank undertaking to pay their notes 01 gold, issued at 41. Is. or 31. 19s. 6d. per octal it followed that time saute reasoning would AP: ply a fortiori to the resumption of cash paY menu' at any one period on the old piao-" that is, at 31. 17s, 1071 A. To the tears e : l ' i i c'Sll tyste, to r,, WO -41 i - 1797 COW , WOW; , :of oc r+)nF pos e 'awe .ni4t)l