The Sun. — London, England, 1819-04-28 00:00:00

'TIE CATHOLIC QUESI lON. The Speech delivered in the [louse of Lords noon this marnntote. Que.tiou, un the Ifith of M a y, 1817, by the then Wool) of LANDAFS, now Bishop of PETERBOROUGiI, treats the sulect with so much candour, jedgment, leanings, nnaffectecl piety, and genuine patriotism, and made such an inioression on the floese, and on the Public in general; at the time, that it occurred to us, from it sense of public duty, as peculiarly proper fur tevival at the present period. We, therefore, now stibmit it again to our Readers, as takett from d fanhful report ,of what she Learned Pre -14.e ,aid on the occasion. It was In-est:wed to us ley an intelligent friend, wUo heard it delivered, a nd who assured os rite he gave a correct report of tliv Speech in cprestjon, as far as be could pos• sibly do justice t 0 it, Itithout. an app wtunity of taking notes. It is now copied from TUE SUN Of May the 21st, 1817 We hardly need add, that we are sure the PuoTESTANT WOULD will rejoice !hat the same Learned Prelate is in the station which enables It /us again to come forward its case of . neccolity, and to exert his eloquent and stre nuous'effOns in support of that happy Establish went in Church and State, upon which depends the great fabric of our National Existence, and which, according to the decision of the Legida tnre, will preserve us still fis the freest People on :runt, or ultimately devote us to the most de plorable thraldom, nodar the horrid infatuw ion of a Poris,l4 AZC,ENPAbICY. " MY •Loßns—Thongli hitherto unaccustomed to speak before so august an assenthly, and con scious of my inability to do justice to so ntmocor ous a subject, I yet preiume to solicit your in dulgence at this early stage of the deb. 4e. But as the same subj , et has been te• eateuly examined in this House, I win not attempt to f•sllow the Noble Moser through all the vitiotts matter Which be has introduced, but will stir e briefly and generally the reasons which induce me to dis sent from an opinion so respectably ma i wa i ne d. " My Lords, if the question now before us were a question of a et.!Gtous tinattTi, 1 shonid rejoice to co.opet ate w;th the Noble Eul for the attainment at so desirable an end. Bat the reli gions restraints, tinder which the petitioners once l a boured, are already removed. And we must no longer speak of r NiKs and penfiltis as at taching to the religi•in which they profess, when they are einpowered by the law of the 13hti to exercise their religious worship, stticl to main tain their religious opinions, with the sante free dom as the members of the ESTABLISI-17.1) CKURCH. We are not, therefore, concerned with the cities fiists, whether we shall extend their itet.totous LIBERTY ; lor of that liberty they are already in complete possessi , m. We ate concerned with the question, whether ,we ehall extend their PoLITL- , CAL POWER. And surely, my Lords, we may ven ture to oppose no extension Of POLITICAL Power, without incurring either the charge of INTOLER ANCE, or the cherce of INHUMANITY. " lint, if we ate no . v concer; , 'd with a poli tical question, telly (it may be asked) should re ligious topics be introduced into it at all ? Of what importance can it be in the diseussio'n of a FoLti icAt, subject, to inquire whether the DE- C REES 01 the Couscie of 'FEINT agree OF d7sa gree with the TBIETY•N'INi ARTICLES ; whether the doctrine Of TRAN“JB•TAN'Itarto:‘ , : be true or talAe; whether the I:.:VOCATION of s k!' , TS be effi cacious or no ? Let the errors of the ',7lzercis of Rome be iteknowledged": iet it be groatyd also, that its disci, , line is such as no °test sot cif) approve : and k the COPE F-17.?,5,LF he c-ndetutt ett, as he justly deserve.:, tot sthl relLsieg to Coe laity the tree use of the Bible. hut however er roneous may be i s doctrine, or however fat.hy may be its discißline, yet if the tenets of that Church do not prev(ct its members from bring gnOil subjects of I h State, why should they be excluded from offices in the State ? Such exclu sion !illybe jnstifted On the ground tui clett. 41e linquetiey ; but if NO SOCII del elltilleliCy MI be laid to their charge, it with all the errors of their Church they art ahte and willing to serve the State, why are they inadmissible to employment in the State phout, let the question of ad wission to CIVIL EMPLOYSIRNTS be reteired to v:zor sTANDAtiD—CIVIL CAPACITY and CIVIL not;Tlt . " My Lords, I have now stated in terms the roost forcible which I could devise, the argument w hi c h in itself is the most powerful that was ever advanced iu favour of the present question. And if the ai.g. , ment, so stated, admit of a Sall's fictory answer, I trust your Lordships will deem i , unnecessary - to go int o t he proposed Committee. lam ready then to meet the question on the ground most favourable to 'the petitioners: I am re,idy to assume as a tundamental proposition, that admission to civil employment should be de terin;ned, by CIVIL CAPACITY and CIVIL WORTH. 4. 1 at be foie we attempt to judge by the stan dard o.ere proposed, we must make ourselves ac ct Iniuted Frith that standard. We must examine 1111 the various q which constitute civil ca pacity and civil wotth. For among those various ri , i,dities there may he some which in thentsvlves are not of a civil nature: there may he some even o• a rdigiutts tiAtnve. lito if the religion profess ed by one man renders him a more useful member of the State than the iAigion protested by min i thcr, surely the one is better yittlited than the other to coullut the•husiness of the Statt. Anti though t4e State ought not to punish men fur re -1;00,1! o pinions, unless those opinions are inju- Onus to the Slate itself, it has an undonhted right to trust 'the management of its OWN AFIAIRS Ex r:LusiVEILY to those in whoa) it bits reason to confide. It is still their CIVIL CAPACITY, their woirro, which determine cite choice of the whatever be the ingredients which ewer jot° the compoAtiutt of wilt. CAPACITY and CIVIL FORTH. " L”t a now apply our stantli - :;•;d to the respec tive cast.i of Churchmen, of Protestant Diseoters, and of 1 1.1einhers of tile Church of Rome. The ellegiance ut the Ch u rchman is ENTIRE : he ac knowkdges 'nig KING as supreme, ill matters cc ek.oaslic a! as wvll as civil. The Protestant Dis ster tickpowledgca 0411 y his CIVIL SUPREMACY, ack:iowlcdgcri also by the m , mbers of t;ie Churci, of Rome. So fat, the:ctore, the t‘vo titter stand on R footing of equality. out if the civil allegiance of Pt otest an! Dissenters receives not, like that of the Churchman, accession of strength, it is exposed to ►►o drawbacks from eccle siastical allegiance. If a Protestant Dissenter acknowledges either an individual or any body of men, as (orating the spiritual head of his owl-i -lia - 11y, such person or persons are still the subjects of his Sovereign. Bat if a Church is governed by a FoItEIGNER, who has neither DFESNORNCE ON, nor a COMMON INTERIIST WITH, THE KING OF THE COUNTRY, the CIVIL ALLEGIANCE of those who belong to that Church cannot fail to be weakened by their ECCLESIASTICAL ALLE. GIANCE. _ _ 4 ‘ Yi-t, notwithstanding this ANOMALY of Go vernment, - notwithstanding this confnAion of Fo.. REI GN with DOMESTIC ALLEGIANCE, WC are told, my Lords, there is no reason to apprehend that the one s!ould interfere with the other. We are told, that the provinces of SPIRITUAL and of T-IM PORAL ongtmasca are q ►ite DISTINCT; and there fore that obedience to the POPE in things Set- RITUAL can never detract from obedience to the King in things TEMPORAL. 'But, my Lord , ,, where religion and politics are so blended, as in this country, it is often difficult to determine whether the subject of dispute shall,he regarded- as a civil, or regarded as a religious question. The very case which is now hetore us is a case in point. Some view it in a civil light, others in a 'reli gious light. Audi( the question is CIVIL in itself, it is still so connected, with religion, that it can nor be duly appreciated withont taking religion into the account. . " is unavoidable, therefore, that doubts 5110111(4 arise whether a subject of dispute shall be considered as a spiritual, or considered As a tem poral co . t:ctrn. And to WHOM, my Lords, will the Memhers of the Church of Rome apply in such cases for 8 SOLUTION of their doubts ? Why, my Lords, they will apply to the self-same'SPIRIT UAL PowEa, which is AT tssua with the TEMPO RAL. Under such circumstances allegiance to THE POPE MUST interfere with allegiance to THE KING. And when it does interfere; when the soil is threatened on the one side, hut the body only on 'the other, men wijl yield to that autho rity of which they are most afraid. The power which commands the CoNscsaNce, will 4•ffintnand the coNnocT of the man. And this power, which is a FoREIGN power, the power of a FOREIGN PRINCE, is so easily directed by FOREIGN IN TRIGUE 10 'purposes subversive Or OUP Constitu tion, that they who SUBMIT to such 9 power are hardly qualified to undertake the GUIDANCE of our Constitution. • "My Lords,-1 am aware that arguments, tending to exclusion, ate in the present age con demned, as narrow and illiberal. What is called ENLIGHTENED policy is represented as the BEST policy ; and whatever fears may be entertained in theory, the experience derived from the late example of Fiance is supposed to have already shown, that Catholics and Protestants may be ad mitted alike into the Councils of the State, with out danger to . the State. - But, my Lords, there is a matetild difference between the admission of a PROTESTANT into the Councils of a nation - where the Established Religion is that of the Church of ROME, and the admission of a Catholic into the Councils of a nation where the Establish ed Religion is that of the Church of ENGLAND. ‘Vhen a Protestant is admitted into the Councils of France, the drawback of FOREIGN allegiance does not exist. The Protestant, so admitted, acknowledges no other supremacy than that of his lawful Sovereign he owes no other allegiance than allegiance to that King into whose Coun cils lee is called. Not so the Catholic, when ad mitted into the Councils of a Protestant Prince. He owes allegiance to a FOREIGN SOVEREIGN j to Sovereign who wields the powerful Sceptre of Religion ; but whose religion is adverse, whose eiews therefore must be hostile, to the interests of the DOMESTIC SOVEREIGN. _ " . Let us now revert to 'the standard by which it was pi oposed to try the merits of the present question, namely, that of clYtt. capacity and civit. worth. It they whose allegiance is thus divided and distracted, can possess the lime civil capacity, the saute civil worth, as they whose whole allegiance is given to their lawtul Sove reign, why then, my Lords, let them be atim tied alike into the confidence of their Sovereign ; let them be admitted alike to the Councils of the nation ; let them be admitted alike to offices of trust and power ; and let us grant at once, that the Constitution may be as safely administeted by the bonnet, as admliistered by the latter. But, my Lords, if it is impossible that the same civil capacity and civil worth, which attaches to those whose . .legi duce is single and entire, should at tach also it, those whose allegiance is thus divided and distracted, it hollows of necessity, that they are ndt alike admissible to rite confidence of their Ning s; that they are not alike admissible to the Councils of the nation ; that they are not alike admissible to offiCes of trust and power ; and therefore, my Lords, that the claiMs, which are now advanced, ought not to he allowed. " I do not mean to assert that the-members of the Church of Rome in this country are not good subjects. I speak 'only by comparison I assert only that they are nuJ so good, and so useful sub ject, of the State, as the members of the Establish ment-, or as they themsLlves would be if they would bin break the fetters which bind them to a foreign Prince. I ascribe to them the highest re spectability ; I acknowledge their honour and their integrity ; but that anomaly of government, a foreign jarisdiction in spiritual concerns, dis tracts their allegiance, and makes them obedient to the Pope when they ought to be, and are pro bitbly inclined to be, obedient to the King; " Atter this general view of the subject, it can hardly be necessary to enter into single topics Of minor moment; hut so much stress has been laid ou DOMESTIC NOMINATION, that I cannot conclude without a few remarks on it. DOMESTIC Nomi nation is a tern) well calculated to diminish the imnres%ion made by ihe appreigension of FORElorr i u fW e nce. If a Bishop is no;ninated or elected at home, as in his own See, whether by a Chapter, a Committee of neighbouring Bishops, or any other domestic body, each nomination or election must undoubtedly be ascribed to that body. Bat-, my Lords, it is well known, especially on the . Bench witrre 1 have the bon our to sit, that a Chapter may elect a Bishop without having the choice of a Bishop. Domestic Nomination, therefore, does not of itself imply domestic choice : it does not of itself exclude the exercise of foreign in fluence; it cannot, therefore, afford the security required. "'But let us suppose that no fOreign influence, either direct or indirect, operate BEFORE Nomina tion, we shall have little reason to think ourselves secure when we reflect on tee unbounded influ ence which follows AFTER Nomination. We shall have little reason to conclude that a Romish Bi shop is entitled to the confidence of n Protestant KING, when we read the OATH ot Allegiance which, at his Consecration, he takes to THE Pore. " Let me intreat, then, your Lordsl)ins to muse before you determine to remove the gn4rds ‘vhich the wisdom of our ancestors has pr.vided against lareigiv influence in the Councik of this Nation, and which, my Lords, if once destroyed, the wis dom of succeeding generations will in vain at tempt to restore *." f At this part of the Speech an observation was made about the Coadjutors of the Irish Titular Bishops, as connected with the Subject of Domestic Nomination. But in this Re port the observation is omitted ; partly because the interrup tion occasioned by the risinz of Lord Donoughmore (who was called to order by Lord Kenyon) preventid the purport of it from being distinctly linderst,otl; and partly because the Learned Prelate himself declared, in reply to Lord Do noughmore, that it did not affect the general argument, and that he readily waved it, if the Noble Earl had the slightest *bjection to it.—Edit. PARLIAMILNTARY PAPERS. FIRST REPORT FROM THE SELECT COMMITTEE OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS ON FINANCE.-(1819 The Select Committee on Finance, re-appoint ed in an early part of the present Session, have made their First Report to P a rliament, w hi c h entbraPes the probable Income 80(1 Expenditure of the Country for the current year.—The Com mittee s►ate--- Ist. tie denial produce or the Retenue in the year ended sth Jauu-,ry, 1819, as compared with the c.,l!:ifite.. contained in the Fourth Report of the Committe ; and 2d. The actual produce of the Revenue in the same year, as ec•npared with the actual produce jn the year ending 5h Jarnary, 1818. generid tesult of this comparison is, that the permanent Revenue of Great Britain, in the year ended sth January, 1819, exceeded the esti mate of the Committee by the sum of 1,434,8561., in addition tow;; Hs there was the sum of 566,6391., received on account of the - arrears of unappro priated war duties, making, together, the sum of 2,051,4951. In Ireland, the sum received fell short of the Estimate of the Comtnittee by the sum of 392,9211. The total amount of the Revenue of Great Britain and Ireland ; in the year 1818, was 53,563,9371. being 1,658,5731. more than the estimated produce. If, from this excess, there be deducted, the amount of unappropriated war duties as stated above (viz 566,6391.) then the produce of the permanent Revenue for the last year will have exceeded the estimate by 1,091,9341. By adding to the aforementioned sum of 53,563,9371. t h e. sum of 240,0001. as the profit of the Lottery, and 250,0001. as the pro duce of Old Na►al Stores, the public revenue of the country for the year 1818, will have amounted to 54,053,9371. The next point of comparison instituted by the Committee, relates to the aggregate p►orluce of the Revenue in the two years ended sth January, and sth January, 1819. From this it ap pears, that the total Revenue of Great Britain for the latter period, exceeded the total Revenue for the former, by the sun► of 1,705,5101. The Re venue of iteland for the saute period, chews an increase in favour of the last year of 192,969/., which, added to the sum of 1,705,5101., makes a total improvement of the Revenue of the United Kingdom, Of 1,898,479/. The probable expenditure of the United King dom for the corrent year is estimated at 67,779,882/. In !waking this estimate the Committee mention that they have not taken into their consideration any increased expense which may arise, out of the manner in which provision,may he made for meet ing the supplies of the present year,, or for the expense vOliich may attend any me►►sure which may be taken with a view of reducing any part of the unfunded debt. But no considerable additional expense is expected to be incurred by the latter operation to whatever extent it may be ,carried. THE PERSIAN ANII3ASSADOR, &c. The Persian Ambassador and the Fair Circas sian and suite, arrived yesterday afternoon, a;out five o'clock, at their new residence in eh:tries street, Berkeley-apiare, from The caval cade consisted of four carriages. They. enteed town by Westminster-hridge, and passed up Par liament-street, Cockspur-street, and down NU mall, to their destination, His Excellency and his fair companion rode in the first windage, the blinds to the side windows of which were down, anti most maliciously obstructed - the cu rious eye ot the pas,enger, eager to catch a glimpse of the fair Circassian. The laic car riage in the set was an open landau, in which were seated the black Eunuchs, in the costume of their country and their calling.— Many persons in the route stopped and gazed, un conscious of the persons who composed the caval cade. A few who, from the appearance ot the black eunuchs, suspected it was the Persian Am bassador and suite, followed the cavalcade into Pall-mall,expecting to seeit stop at Carlton-house. It is . needless to add, that they were disappointed. Yesterday Charles Louis Schweitzer was charged before Mr. BIRNIE. at Bow-street, on suspicion of having committed frauds to a considerable . extent in the city of Paris. That charge, how ever, could not be gone into; but Mr. Capper, of the Alien Office, attended to prefer a charge against him under the Alien Act, for having come to England from France without entering his name and full description, also where he was from, and where be was going, within the time directed by the Act of Parliament ; which being satisfactorily proved, be was committed to Bride well fur one mouth. On the 7th of May will he published, By Messrs. Whittalier, Aye-Maria-lane , t - b 01)E, tO e T HE FALL i of the LEAF ; NYMPH of the FOUNI AIN of TEARS; HYMLN to the MOON; and other POEMS. - By CHARLES BI I .,:(;KE, Fcq. p Or N.B. The FINAL PREFACE t o THE ITALIAN.' Q j , k§ fished separately, pric e On e Shilling.. It contains I le " -- ot on the late unwarrantable, unmanly, and illiterate a"a upon that Tragedy. _........!: oh~, htch e , 1.„ IVr oi N i l Tito • Oreitn ~d~ .. TII E 'I: It I (.; A REGIS E IZ. Performer! Last :Vi4rht. ~.,' .„Nl: THEATRE RoyAL, DKU RV- LA N E.—The School Mrs.7 , cr. , ' ~, Sir S r Peter Teazle, Mr. Mund • • i • 1 - Glo— ° • . lady t Carle , :ther which, How to Die for Love. ~,,,L.Lo• THEATRE ROYAL, COVENT-GM:DEN.—The 'Tear ' of , i , "..•id.. thian : George Robertson, Mr. Macready ; Madze N",, lire, Mrs.C,Kernble. After which, " We Fly !..)Y Night. TO CORIF.ONDENTS; o ther IMITANNICUS, Lo ter ( VII. to-morrow, mid as InanY Articles as we can convenie4y admit: . PRICE 0 STOCKS THIS DAY AT T , VELVE ocr,ocit. 1 0 400 Bank Stock .., 252 f 5 per ('t. Navy Ann. 3 pet Cent. Red 71,1 i i 105 10411 3 per Crnt. Cons .7li 7 , 2 1 India Bonds, ..... 064. 05 ' l' ol r f . . 4 per Cents .9oiti i Exch. Bills, , i. 1..... I I T; Bank Long Ann. 18i 13-16; hs I Cons. for May..... 7 1 i 7 " . MA Due-1 Dublin I Li. , I Hamburgll. HIGH WATER AT LONDON BRIDGE TO .1110Ft 1 T - T6. 'Morning, 46,atinutes atter 5. Evening, minutes al`e" THE SUN. SOLEM guts I.ICER7. 'FAL-uM A U DEAT ? LONDON, WEDNE'SOAY, APRIL 28, 1819 We received this morning the .Paris Par" Sunday last. The following are extracts •-•"" " CHANIBER OF PEERS, SATURDAY, APRIL 24. " The Keeper of the Seals, accompanied by a Councillors of State Covier and Goizot, P l. e sensed the projet respecting the offences °I t b Press, agreed to by the Chamber of DeP'' tiels Referred to the Bureaux for examination. bot• " The tobacco projet stood for discussi on, no name being inscribed to oppose it, the Doke Rochefoucald alone ‘vo heard. be n " A scrutiny was taken upon the projet, there appeared 125 for its adoption, arid 1 0 ' f°- its rejection. The adoption of it was ttscrgil proclaimed by the President.—Adjuurned tit Tuesday. " CHAMBER OF DEPUTIES. " 'l.l. Roy reported from the Committ ee on tbe projet respecting the financial accoun ts.—aePft ordered to be printed. " The discussion was resumed on the scold • projet respecting the .Piess. " M. Benjamin Con3tant delivered a bg speech in support of an amendment move a him in Art. 12. for making a distinction spect to public Functionaries. The previous g oe r (ion was moved upon this amendment, and c$ ried by a large majority. " Art. 12. was agreed to. • 4 de " In Articles la and 14 united. M. L 3151 I,t Villevque moved amendments to the effect n i" Juries should be chosen by lot, and not aPP- juri by the Prefects, and that the decision of a should be by a. majority of three-fourtbs. wo " The discussion of these amendme nts postponed till Monday. . _.e. cc PARIS, APRIL 25.—Accounts from Swir.`-je land state, that the French Ainister there , Talleyrand, had, in pursuance of orders from to Stgl Government, opened a negociation with the pith which had conclUded,militat y capitulations 'lid France, in order to obtain some modificali°"e the existing capitulations respecting the 9(11 1. 11i :1a stration ofjustice in their own regiments,wh ie ' Swiss have always exercised. It appear s the privileges enjoyed in this respect by tl'e 5 % / I I are considered incompatible with the present 1- ' ll of France, particularly in cases of CO'Pii.€4o with Frenchmen. The King also desir e ' li the French Military Code shall be adopted ite reference to the Swigs Regiments in the ser i ::;' of France, the capitulations stipulating 111°1"-fit upon that question. Although, however' the usilitary capitulations arc agreed upon by Cantotral Governments, it appears that the °" e ed tures of the, French Ministers are to be re fare to the Federal Diet, which had been pregi°lls Cod e occupied with the consideration of a P e nal for these regiments.—(llloniteur.) " The Duchess d'Angoulcme will , it d 'iis- A - the course of the summer, go to, the cote" of Vichey. a dsio " It is said that the King of Prus sia wi ll " visit Paris incognito. o e. " The Countess of Gothland den) returned to Paris on Friday. Th e Col de Montrichard, a General in the S wedish scrvie who has been to Stockholm, is also 0010 e%' peered here. (Queen 01 -vint FIVE PER CENTS. . 66 f. so c. Saturday DEFRRRED STOCK. , Of the 24d March, 1817, 8 4 f. 55 0 . 2?).(1 Sept. 1817, 22 , 1 March, 1818, ............ so f . 55 C.. 2-211 Sept. i 818, 7Bl. 55 22d March, 1819, 761. 50 0. " BERLIN, Arum 13,—SeveraliCouriers 4/11. " RA lilt, the h as pa, !Ili. ; on l ilt of i B " i ntt ‘ ‘`'re h a Si qk Li sts al effect l e lterd kfi ssioi Arevi ott fell to t° 72{, Iltiet. eve rt 11 many 44 1tlen, Dart c Loan t pre _ t,,, k 7 li o4a : k i : iF i ch i k P. 1 4/ert tp liii, tt 4414 411 PW ~ iQtt hr if ii b :ist Ni t , lii. 1144 t Li ve 4 41 tt (t _. 14 liti oi th o,i viill titi oi lle„ - r1 p~aoi tq uii ktnt th us, 114 it t /401 % tell P, I' a I Ora l *.. C it 4