The Sun. — London, England, 1841-09-18 00:00:00

MORNING SUN IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT . HOUSE OF COMMONS, Scpt. 17, The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hour. Mr. COCHRANE took the oaths and his seat for Brid port, in the room of Mr. Warburton, who had accepted the Chiltern Hundreds. _ Mr. S. CRAWFORD presented a petition from Wil liam Bullock, weaver, of Biggar, Scotland. The peti tioner stated that distress exists to an enormous extent among the working classes. That this distress is pro duced by monopolies, over taxation, and bad legislat ion of various kinds, created by imperfect representation. The petitioner, therefore, prayed that every man in the realm of sane mind, and unconvicted of crime, and who had attained the age of 21 years, might have a vote for Members of Parliament. Mr. BROTHERTON presented a petition from the Young Mens' Society of Manchester, praying for the to tal repeal of the Corn-laws. Mr. COBDEN presented petitions from the Inde pendent congregation of Birmingham, and from upwards of 300 of the inhabitants of King's Lynn, in public meeting assembled, praying for the aboli on of the bread-tax. Also two petitions from Independent congregations of Dissenters in Stone, Staffordshire, pray ing for the abolition of the Corn-laws ; a petition from the members of a congregation of Protestant Diseenters in Dunstable, praying for the free admission of foreign corn into this country; and a petition from the Wes leyan congregation of Eccles, in favour of the repeal of the Corn-laws. Sir EARDLEY WILMOT presented a petition from the Foreign Anti-Slavery Society, complaining of British subjects encouraging slavery, and praying for a Com mittee of that House to inquire into and report upon the practices complained of. Mr. VILLIERS presented a petition from distressed manufacturers in North Derbyshire, complaining of the privations under which they were suffe.iing, and praying for the total repeal of the Corn-laws. The SPEAKER. informed the House that he had re ceived a notification from the Clerk. of Recegnizances, that the securities for the prosecution of the following , election petitions were unobjectionable—Cardigan, Ro chester, Gloucester, Nottingham, Newry, ;Southamp ton, and several other places, of which the ns.mes could not be heard in the gallery. TikßEll. DUTIES. Mr. HOPE presented a petition from the Legislative Council and the House of Assembly of Canada, against any alteration of the. Timber Duties. PRIVATEERING. Mr. MARTIN gave notice that on an early day after the re-assembling of Parliament in the nest year, he would move for an address to her Majesty, praying her Majesty to use her influence with all maritime States to put down the barbarous practice of private ening, and to obtain treaties from those States, binding them to suppress the practice amongst. their respective subjects. Mr. M. J. O'CON".\.TELL moved for a return of cer tain correspondence relating to the late election for the county 'of Fermanagh. Captain PECHEIL moved that the continuation of the returns from the Commissioners of Assessed Taxes, relating to the number of distresses issued since 1832, be printed.—Ordered. MINISTERIAL POLICY. Sir R. PEEL having moved the Order of the Day that the House go into a Committee of Supply, Lord JOHN Russr l ,LL rose, and was for a consi derable time utterly inaudible, in consequence of the noise made by Members hurrying to their places. We understood him to say—Sir. I rise to make a few observations before the question is put, according to what I stated last night, it was my intention to do. Presuming that this is a motion for a Committee of Supply for the purpose of placing a sum of money at the disposal of the Crown, I consider it a fit ting occasion on which to state the 'View I have taken of the present state of the country, and of the course which the Right Hon. Gentleman has informed the House he means to pursue. Before Igo into this topic, e I wish to advert to one or two topics which are of great public importance. With respect, Sir, to our foreign relations, it does not appear to me to be neces sary that for any reason connected with them, that Parliament should continue to be assembled. The state of Europe happily holds out every prospect of the continuance of peace. The Speech which her Majesty was advised to address to Parliament, at the opening of the Session, gave the information that the temporary separation which had taken place between this country and France had ceased, and that the most amicable relations then prevailed between the two countries. Sir, I have every hope that these amicable relations will continue.—(Hear.) I hope that the life of the Prince who now reigns over the destinies of that country will long be spared and be preserved from the attacks of infatuated assassins —(Cheers)—and whether we regard the happiness of France, or the peace of Europe, the preservation of that Prince's life must be desired by every well-constituted mind.—(Hear, hear, hear.) In one part of our foreign relations there is certainly a question in connection with the United States, which, in some of its aspects, affords cause of uneasiness ; but my Noble Friend, as Secretary for Foreign Affairs, satisfied the House by the answer of the United States' Secretary, that both her Majesty's Government and I the Government of the United States are perfectly agreed I as to the character which should be attributed to the I attack upon, and the capture of, the Caroline—(Loud cheers)—that it was a question to be debated between nation and nation, and not to be treated as a private wrong. A sufficient view, however, had been taken by the Judges of the State of 'New York, I and if that view should be carried out, it would be de- structive of all. amicable relations between the two Go vernments. If two Governments were not to decide if a question was international, or between private indi viduals, and any Judge had the power of deciding that a question which the Government considered national was a subject for the Local Courts, no amicable relation could subsist between the two States.—(Hear, hear.) I have read the judgment of the Judges who decided this case, and in that judgment it seemed to be admitted that the two Executive authorities had agreed that the case was one which should be decided between the two j Governments. But the Judge who had decided that I case had stated it as his own opinion that it could not • be considered as a case of war, and therefore that it was a proper one to be decided by his own tribunal. It appears to me that this is a doctrine to which no Government can agree. For, according to this doctrine, if • Sir Graham Moore, or any other officer who had captured the Spanish frigates at the beginning of the Spanish war, should be taken before a Spanish tribu nal, it would be equally competent to the Judge of that tribunal to say there was no declaration of war at the time these captures were made, therefore the captures are piratical, and the officers engaged in them are liable to be convicted of murder. But on the whole it appears that, although such may be the construction of the law adopt ed by the State of New York ; yet, considering what has been stated on one side by Mr. Fox, and on the other by Mr. Webster, with regard to cir cumstances attending the capture of the Caroline, and the accordance of opinion existing on that subject— (liear)—l do not believe that the authorities of America will permit any occurrence to take place which will expose any subject of her Majesty to danger for executing the commands of his Sovereign. I therefore feel convinced that. while the two Governments are agreed, it: is not likely that there] will arise any cause of war between the two countries, I am sure that there prevails in this country, and I trust that there prevails in Ame rica also, the strongest desire that peace may be preserved between these two great countries.—(Cheers.) Having thus alluded to the only matter which appears to me to require any remark as regards our foreign relations. I will now make one remark on the recent appointments which the Right Hon. Gentleman has thought it right to make as respects the Government of Ireland. I have seen those appointments with great satisfaction. — (Cheers.) I see in them evidence that the Right Hon. Gentleman i s d eterm i ned to carry into effect those con ciliatory opinions which he has so often expressed with regard to that country.—(ilear, -hear.) I entertain the highest respect for the character of the new Lord Lieu tenant; and, with reeard to the Noble Lord who has been appointed Secretary f or Ireland, I think that that Noble lewd has shown on various occasions a desire to place t h e people of Irel an d i n that condition with which alone t h e y ought to he satisfied— a condition of equality with the other people of th eUnitedrilingdoin.—(Cheers.) I may a dd, likewise, that I trust that the Noble Lord, the Chief Secretary for Ireland, will not re-introduce a measure, w hi c h, in the. hands of another:N-4)le Lord, (Stanley) Foraad lal feelrea dbey, that been m measur e the ein contract thisir entereduse.— House.—(Cheers.) into s e v r i s t . h ) of Ireland in 1329 will be violated, and an ._arrct!reeorsf the people that it cannot be badoated without speedily and ) the lsy representation utterly destroy in f g lr t le character of the people e I have (Cheers.) And Eliot will not countenance great confidence that e Lord ' Years to consolidate any Bill of that nature in this House,— . I trust that what has passed of late the peace of that country, will receive yet further deve lopment ; and that, in every step taken by that Noble Lord, he will endeavour, as far as possible, to meet the views anti expectations which have been entertain e d of him, acting, of course, under the advice, an- by the di rect i ons, of the Right lion. G e ntleman.—(Cheers.) I come now to that part of the subject which it is my misfortune to differ widely from her Majesty 's Government. We a re now met in pursuance of an in timation, first t given by th e Right Hon. Gentleman, but in which the members of Lord Melbourne's Government perfectly concurred, that as soon after the dissolution as possible, it would be de sirable that Parliament should be re-assembled, in order to take into consideration the important affairs of the nation. (Considerable interruption was here occasioneds by the lend tone in which Sir Francis Burdett was carrying on a conversation with some Hon. Member on the Minis terial bench. The voice of the Hon. Baronet completely drowned that of Lord John Hassell for some moments, when loud cries of " Order" induced the Hon. Baronet somewhat to lower his tone.) The Noble Lord con tinued—Her Majesty was advised by her late Ministers, in; the Speech delivered at the opening of Parliament, • to advise the House to take into its considera tion the laws relating to the trade in corn. "' Her Majesty is desirous that You should consider the laws which regulate the trade in corn. It will be for you to determine whether these laws do not aggravate the natural fluctuations of supply, whether they do not embarrass trade, derange currency, and, by their operation, diminish the comfort and increase the privations of the great body of the community." The importance of these considerations no person can doubt. Laws which embarrass trade, derange the currency, and increase the privation s of the great body of the com munity, supposing such to be their effect, ought at once to be altered. There can be no more solemn duty than for 'Parliament to alter those laws which have such a per nicious effect. In answer to that speech as ad dressed to the Crown, in these words—" We as- EV, S PArlE,...we your Majesty that we are - deeply sensible . -f the importance of those considerations to which a j '7;•-:-• ,, . -- . ur Majesty has been pleased to direct our attention with rence to the commerce and revenues of the country, ''.-•'.!' rx.V - ~"L'•4,, itl . 1.... t - - ,(;=•x. ) --7; THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 18, 1841. and to the laws whichregulated the - trade in corn." Upon that subject the House were unanimous. The House of Commons, however, thought it their duty to state to her ..`..!ajesty that the Ministers did not possess their confidence, and they addressed her Majesty for the purpose of effecting a change of-Govern meat. The advice of this House was promptly acceded to by her Majesty, and the Right Hon. Gentleman op posite constructed the Administration which is now formedehavingsuch an unalterable attachment to the Con stitution in Church and State, and to the sliding scale—(Laughter)—but this Address having been com plied with by the Crown, it certainly would seem that the time was come when these important laws ought to be taken into consideration.—(Hear, hear.) Far be it from me, and I hope from any one in this House, to say that you should attend exclusively to mea sures, and not to men. I think you ought to attend to both ; but, at the same time, I think men should not be substituted for all measures, but, having the men in authority, you ought also to have before you the measures which they approve—(Hear.) What, then, is the state of the case ? the Right Hon. Gentiman states, and I am not diSposed to quarrel with that statement, that much time has been lately occupied in the formation of a new Adminis tration, and that he could not consider these important points ; but although that may he a good rea son to plead for the last fortnight, it does not seem to be any reason for postponing for five months the consider ation of these subjects. Let us consider the previous deiherations which the Right Hon. Gentleman, and those who act with him have held on these points. It was upon the last day of April that the measures relating to the Budget were announced, and that I gave notice of moving for a Committee of the whole House on the laws relating to the trade in corn. When I gave notice that I would introduce the subject in a month from that time very strong expressions of surprise were uttered. It was said that although we had a right to consider the laws relating to corn, and although it was right that the Government should propose such measures, yet that the delay of a month was an intolerable evil, for which the Government of that day was justly' censurable. — (Hear, hear, hear.) It was thought proper shortly after to bring forward a motion declaring that the then Ministers ought not to retain office, and the decision upon that motion prevented my'proceeding with the question relating to corn. But from that time the Right Hon. Gentleman has had four months to consider what course he will pursue, and he proposes now to add to those four months five additional months before he will communicate to the House of Commons the measures which the Government think necessary on this subject. He does not say, as he might, " We stand upon the present Corn-law; we think no altera tion necersary ;" on the contrary, he said he would not accept office, on the condition of being bound not to make any alteration in the Corn-law. It cannot be inferred from such expressions that he thiirks an alteration necessary. and yet the Right Hon. Gentle man, who has certainly gone far with others in that expression of indignation at delay, and who said, I ought to he obliged in some manner to bring forward the ques tion in less than a month, adds eight months to that period, and conceives that he is justified in asking for this long delay.—(Hear, hear.) Sir, there are symptoms in the construction of the Go vernment itself which induce me to entertain very great doubts whether any important alteration in the Corn law will be effected. I am not alluding to the construc tion of the Administration with aview to any personal re marks, but I cannot help noticing the appointment of the Duke of Buckingham.—(Hear, hear.) Sir, this to me is a symptom that no considerable alteration in the Corn-laws will be effected by the present Government. I do not doubt the conscientious opinion of the Duke of Buckingham. I do not doubt that he thinks a protec tion such as the present law gives, or one, at least, equivalent to it-, if not a greater protection, necessary to the agriculture of the country. I do not doubt that lie has held that opinion with a view to the general interests of the country, and I do not doubt likewise that he will continue to hold that opinion. I have been told that when a sort of threat was uttered that the late Ministry should no longer hold office, because they had proposed an Bs. fixed duty on corn, and that any other Ministry which took a similar course would meet with a similar fate—l have been told that there were none who more demonstrated their approbation and acquiescence in that sentiment than the Noble Duke to whom I have referred. Why, Sir, there are others who have not given any very decided pledge on the subject. The Right Hon. Gentle man himself has not been very explicit.—(Hear, hear.) There is a sliding scale, but a sliding scale may amount to a prohibition, and may give less protection than a fixed duty.—(Hear, hear.) - The Right }lon. Gentleman, therefore, and others, leave their opinions unknown, and have not given any indica tion of the nature of the measures they mean to propose. But, Sir, while I observe the Noble Duke to whom I have alluded is a Member of the Cabinet, there are others to whom the Right Hon. Gentleman has not given office, and who have expressed more liberal views with regard to free trade. I do not perceive Sir George Murray, who had been Secretary of State for the Co lonies in the Duke of Wellington's Cabinet, and was also a Member of the Right Hon. Gentleman's last Ad ministration, holding any place in the present Cabinet; and I believe he expressed himself in favour of a fixed duty of Bs., and even less than Bs.—(Hear, hear, hear.) There had been a selection of those who gave a decided expression of opinion in favour of the Corn-laws—there was a selection of those in favour of prohibition—(Hear, hear)—and there had been a neglect or exclusion of those who pronounced any opinion for free trade.— (Loud cries of "Hear, hear.") Was it possible, that in the present state of the country—expecting something to be done on the subject of the Corn-laws—was it possible, Sir, that those expectations of large and im proved measures should be put off for a period of five months ?—(Cheers.) If such be the case- —if such be your intentions, then I say the arguments you used against the delay of a month, which was proposed by the late Government, fall with ten-fold force against yourselves.—(Cheers.) It were better, for the sake of trade itself, that it may not be at a loss what to do—it were better, for the sake of agriculture, that it may not be depressed by unfounded fears, hat you should declare your adherence, if you do intend, to the present laW, and will make no alteration.—(Hear, hear.) You may attempt some correction of the fraud in the ave rages, by which you may make the law more stringent. —(Cheers.) You may lower the pivot scale to 4s. or ss.—that may be your intention ; but if it is, why should it not be proposed in the month of October ? Why should the expectations of the country be set at nought, and this long delay of five months be interposed. If it be your intention to make, no alteration—if you intend to make a different number of shillings the pivot scale, or a scale more graduated than the present, then I say this length of time should not elapse, but you should make up your minds at once.=(Cheers.) This, I think affects the character of the present Administration, and I think the promises of the Bight Honourable Gentleman should not be deferred for five months. But then I cannot agree to those imputations which hare been made against some Gentlemen, that in the course they adopt upon any subject they are actuated by some selfish object—(Hear)—but when I say that I must add, that having interests in those subjects often gives a bias to the question in dispute.—(Hear, hear.) For instance, when they talked of free trade in silk, it was said that the interests of the country required that that commodity should have protection ; so with respect to the ship owners, they thought that the interests of the country require 6 that their particular branch.of com merce should be protected ; in short, there can be no doubt that all parties were more or less biased by their own interests. But, for the sake of the House of Commons, it is important that this should be kept in mind, because, though it is clear that the delay you pro poQe is for the convenience of the Administration, it is equally clear - that it is for the advan tage of those who think that rents will be effected by a change in the Corn-laws.—(Hear, hear.) Whil e such things continue, therefore, it cannot fail to be im puted to you, that such views as these have some in fluence upon your decision, and that you do not act solely for the public good.—(Hear.) I think, therefore, that it will require that some better case should be made than the one brought forward by the Right Honourable Baronet, to postpone the important questions to which I have alluded for so long a period. What is the state of the manufacturing interest ?—(Hear, hear.) I do not wish to say anything which might be construed into -a declaration of my belief, that any laws you can establish will prevent great distress from existing among the manufacturing districts.—(Hear.) I do not think any laws you can pass will prevent those fluc tuations which may arise either from the state of our foreign relations, or from a long course of over trad ing, or from accidents that may occur from time to time; but what I think the duty of Parliament is this—to be able to say that we at least have no part in causing the continuance of distress ; and for this purpose I think it necessary you should be able to show that your duties and your restrictions are for .some necessary object in the State—(Hear, hear)—that they are necessary for the purposes of revenue, or for the purpose of placing a certain part of the community, which is over-taxed, upon a condition of equality in that respect with other classes ; or that they are necessary in order to make the transition more gradual, and not to bring a sudden state of embarrassment on any inte resth or cl ass o f su bj ects w h o h ave b een unduly pro easurfeo s r necessary pro tected. But d o your own C orn -l aws come Under the r e theyatl f measures whichthe of nbe rev t e h i u m s o dl o efend a e t d he ? A contrary, it is • quite clear that your. present law defeats all purposes of revenue—(Hear, hear)—and that if the measure which I had the honour to announce, and which was never discussed, of laying on a fixed duty of 8s per quarter, had be en a d opte d , the Exchequer would be . n ow some 400,0001. or 500,000/. t h e richer. There would be, in all probability. one million or twelve thousand quarters more admitted into this country. I • s your present law necessary for protecting the agricultural interest ? I think certainly that a fixed duty is far better in that re spect, and that you have no cause to make out a prohibition on that ground. (Hear, hear.) I never heard a cause made out certainly for a pro hibitory duty on that ground. Lastly, you cannot say that this duty is necessary, in order to make a transi tion, because it has been adopted as a permanent s) stem. If that is the state of the laws, I say that those who are distressed have a right to come to you, and ask you to consider their case—ask you to change any law which affects them—to change any law which paralizes trade and embarrasses industry, an d as fas as legislation can do it, to place them in a better condition. You should not be able to say—above all, you should not promise—that by such a law you would place them in a state of entire prosperity, and that you would avert from them all fluctuationsof distress; but you would be able to-say, whatever those:distresses are, we feel the deepest compassion for them, and for the restrictions which aggravate those distresses we are not responsible—Parliament has no share in pro ducing them. Now that is what I think yon cannot justly say at present. If such distress exists, as it un doubtedly does, I think no persona} inconvenience attendant on the sitting of Parlianient for six we;:: longer ought to prevent, our taking nib consideration teis autumn the law which regulates the trade in corn. There has been an address presented to her Majesty, which was agreed to at Manchester at a public meeting, cosiveued in compliance of a requisition, bearing 1,018 signatures of merchants, manufacturers, and other respectable individuals of all classes, and which states that they approach the Throne in order to state their sentiments of profound venera tion for her Majesty's person and their ardent attachment to the throne—that commercial depression was extreme, and that all classes of her Majesty's sub jects, and especially the poorer classes, were enduring privations more grievous than had ever been known to their oldest inhabitants. They beg to assure her Majesty that during the last four years that distress has existed, and has been increasing and that it has been borne by thousands of victims with an enduring patience highly creditable to their moral character.—(Hear.) They state that the ability to ex ercise acts of benevolence by the upper and middle classes begins to fail, and that the distress under which the poor have suffered have begun to visit these; and that, in contemplating the approach of winter under these circumstances, their hearts sink within them, and they sigh at the prospect of such bitter destitution, They therefore pray that her Majesty, in the exercise of her Royal Prerogative, will be pleased not to prorogue the two Houses of Parliament until such time as that portion of her Majesty's gracious Speech, deli vered at the opening of the present Session, relating to the Corn-laws, shall have been fully delibe rated in Parliament; and they state that her Majesty's compliance with their prayer will be to them an assu rance that she is graciously disposed, as she has ever been, to interest herself in the happiness and welfare of her people.—(Hear, and cheers.) Now, Sir, this is not the opinion and sentiments of Manchester only, but the sentiments of other towns suffering like wise under similar distress. If you separate, th only remedy which can be applied is the one already hinted, namely, by the interposition of relief given out of the rates raised for the support of the Poor. Now, Sir, if there were occasional privations and occa sional distress, that might he a reasonable proposition, but if not—if it is connected generally with the state of free trade, I beg leave to say that such a remedy will be quite inefficacious.—(Cheers.) Supposing the case were similar to that which occurred in some agricultural parishes before the introduction of the New Poor-law, when the produce and profit of the land were entirely absorbed by the poor's-rate, you are, then, de stroying the source of manufacturing prosperity. lint you must remember that it is the power of those en gaged in manufactures, when they find themselves subject to continual losses during a period of four years, one year after another—it is in their power to withdraw their capital from those manufacturing establishments to preserve that capital, and leave the people depending on them to that relief from the Poor -rates, which must issue in the entire sacrifice of the land itself. I am afraid—and I have heard instances in which this has taken place—that persons finding one half of their capital already gone, may resolve to save the other half by ceasing to employ art in manufac tures in this country. In the course of the debate two months ago, when we were discussing the Corn-laws, the Right Hon. Gentleman argued against the notion then entertained that we were arrived at a state of great manufacturing distress, and I remember my observing then, that I did not think that the case of manufacturing distress such as it was stated had been made out, but that it was advisable that the House should effect an alteration in the Corn-laws; because if that manufacturing distress should really reach to a great pitch hereafter, your interposition would then be too late. My argument was, that so long as you had any possibility of retaining your markets manufac tures would continue to be sent abroad—so long as ma nufacturers had the least chance of obtaining a profit on their goods, they would consign their goods to foreign markets ; but when they had lost those markets—when you arrived at that period when your manufactures could not be sold abroad, you would then have lost those mar kets. It will then be too late for you to interpose, end the alteration of your laws will not bring a remedy to the evils which have occurred.—(Hear.) I am afraid that with respect to one branch of our manufactures—l mean our cotton trade—if it be not relieved by some alteration in our laws, and by a greater freedom of trade, it will be outdone by foreign competition—(Hear, hear) — that our manufacturing establishments will be broken up, and that a large portion of the population, which cannot be relieved from the poor-rate, will then be left without any resource.—(Hear.) If there be any grounds for these apprehensions, they at least form a matter for the consideration of Parliament. You may say, " That these fears are unfounded ; and in considering those matters which were laid before you in the Queen's Speech, you may say that we have come to the opi nion that the manufacturing prosperity of, this country is based upon a rock— -that it is unshaken—that the Corn-laws do not affect it—but, on fhe contrary, the Corn-laws tend to the welfare of the country—that is the result of our solemn deliberation." Why, if that be the result of your solemn deliberation, so state it, and that will at least give the country the satisfaction of knowing that you have fairly and fully considered the subject. But what is now proposed is merely this, that you should grant certain sums of money ; that you should pass a continuance of laws which would expire at the end of the present year, and then, without any sort of inquiry, without any sort of consideration, that until five months hence you shall not come to any conside ration on the great questions which agitate the country. As far as relates to the finances of the country, in my opinion it is now necessary to take some measures which we might hope would alleviate their present state. In my opinion it would be far better to adopt a course of measures which, if they did not yield an increase of re venue, yet would yield an increase of the trade and com merce of the country, and so make the revenue equal to its expenditure. But the only proposal which has been made is to obtain a vote of credit to continue until the next year. I, Sir, deeply regret the course proposed to be pursued, for I am afraid it will not give satisfaction to the country, and more especially to those residing in the manufacturing districts.— (Hear, hear.) I feel thoroughly persuaded that if, in stead of pursuing this course, you had adopted those measures which the late Government announced on the 13th of April last, they would have produced a revival of trade—(Loud cheering)—and, in augment ing the revenue by such means, you would have secured a still greater object, an increase of the comforts and happiness of the people.—(Cheers.) Nay, more, by de claring to the whole world that you were about to inter change your products fOr theirs on a free basis, you would have contributed to the future peace of the world. — (Loud cheers.) For there can be no feeling so strong — no security equal to the feeling that one country derives benefits from the other—(Cheers)—and that if such in tercourse be interrupted, will cause far greater calamities than an ordinary war between hostile nations. (Loud cheers..) It is not because our measures would improve the revenue merely, but because they would contribute to the peace of the world, that I deeply regret their rejection. But even n ow, a lthough they have been rejected, I think still that the Right Hon. Gentleman and her Majesty's present Government ought not at once to decide that they will not enter into the consideration of measures so important on the present occasion.— (Cheers.) Still I feel per suaded that if they have made up their minds to pursue that course, unwise although think it, they will receive the support of that majority . which recently placed them in office ; but when the events of the year are reviewed, it will be found by the people of the coun try that great advantages would have been derived from the fair consideration, instead of the abrupt re jection of those measures, and that in adjourning their consideration until next year, you adjourn all the bene fits which would have flowed from them. It is not my intention on this occasion, or on any other, to propose any motion to the House, or to ask any division against the course proposed to be taken by the Right Hon. Gen tleman ; but, as a Member of this House, I beg not to be held responsible in any way for the course which will most likely be pursued. Sir E. PEEL said, Sir, the course I took yesterday in announcing to the House the proceedings which I pro posed to adopt with respect to the public business of the country, will have been a sufficient indication that I had no wish at the commencement of the harassing and ar duous task committed to me, to commence it by any con troversy of a party nature. At the same time I ma per fectly ready to admit that that course of proceeding con stitutes no rule for the Noble Lord—that our respective positions are different—and that he is entirely at liberty to invite me to the discussion which he has opened; and, although I had no wish to originate the discussion, yet I can assure the Noble Lord that I am little disposed to avoid it, and on the contrary, I am thankful rather than otherwise for the opportunity of commenting on the observations he has made.—(Loud cheers.) I refer in the first instance to the facts on which there can be no material disagreement between us. I concur with the Noble Lord in the earnest desire that our amicable relations may be maintained between this country and France, and, if possible, I shall more cordially concur with him in the prayer he expressed, that it may please Almighty God to continue his protection from the hand of assassins to that great man to whom the destinies of that country have been intrusted.—(Cheers.) Sir, it is impossible to hear of those abominable attacks—of those infamous and sense less attempts—without feeling pain for the character of humanity, but it appears as if Providence had provided some compensation for them, for the only results of these attempts is to provoke one general feeling of disgust to wards their abettors, and it would appear as if some special protection was vouchsafed to that Illustrious family; and my fires belief • is, that so long as they continue to reign, they constitute a sufficient guarantee for the preservation of peace. I join with the Noble Lord in the wish that assassination may he defeated, and the assassins meet with signal punishment. Sir, I cannot anticipate that the change which has taken place in the Government is likely to interrupt our ami cable relations.—(Hear, hear.) I have received no inti mation from France of any indisposition towards the pre sent Government, or any apprehension that our amicable relations may be impaired. I should be surprised if it were so, for I recollect, on the occurrence of those events which shook to its foundation the throne of the empire of France, as regarded the family of the Bourbons, I was one of those who, in conjunction with the Illustrious Duke of Wellington, and many of those who are now joined with me in the Government, seeing that it a tottrih p toyhe p ne e —tpr a oo r hl il the will of the authorities of the people of France that their Government should be committed to .eeencrddosiwg recognise iwtjahsetelod: nhh i d cao , etni n sa o dwo t vve w ies i rwe t e h ieg s trh t ne a e n i d noc i n n mr g owows t hnt h o e moc r fo e rtt i clih u h etiasal coun try ncaoe:f of the people of France appeared to have fallen. With respect to the man who has been so justly praised by the Noble Lord—l mean the man who now governs France—l equally with the Noble Lord hope for his presi,rvation.—(Cheta,.) C(Ji,istently with the main tenance of BritiFfi witheut exclusive treaties, . intietate.rela'joie: of amity with France. I. tin is the intimate relations of amity between England and France almost essential to the maintenance of general peace. It must conduce to the advancement of social improvement and general civiliza tion.—(Great cheering.:),. I am not now using language to secure the continuance of our present relations, or to court the good opinion of the French Govern ment.--(Cries of " Hear, hear.") During ten years, when I was ont of office, my language has always been the same.—(Hear, hear.) I have taken every opportu nity of assisting in keeping up peaceful relations, and I gave all my assistance to affect an oblivion of the late hostile collision.—(Hear.) I mm ish it may be forgotten and :hat each nation may repose under the limas which each had gained, and those two nations, so distinguished in arts and military achievements, may maintain peaceful relations without any disparagement of their honour.—(Hear, hear.) This is essential to the welfare of the world.—(Cheers.) This is the doctrine which I have always maintained when Gentlemen opposite were in power, and it is not likely that I shall now shrink from its repetition.—(Cheers.) As to the United States, I confess I look to the present state of our relations with them with great anxiety.— Hear, hear.) It seems to be as manifestly the interest of these two countries, which are united by so many ties, to avoid a hostile collision, that I hope the good feeling and the good sense of the people of this country will aid the Government if any necessity for that aid should arise. But at the same time I feel the obligation of making no concession derogatory to the honour of this country for the sake of a temporary conciliation.—(Great cheering.) Sir, I now come to that question on which the controversy arises between the Noble Lord and myself, and I particularly regret that the Noble Lord declines to take the sense of the House upon the difference of oar views. The House was elected under his auspices (Loud cheers) and I wish he had taken its sense as to the propriety of the course which I mean to pursue.—(Hear, hear.) I think it would be no more than reasonable—if, after ten years, during which I have sat in this House as a private individual— I think that, on returning- to office, it would be no more than reasonable that I should not be expected, within fourteen days, to propose a mea sure for altering all the laws of trade and commerce.— (Cheers.) I thought it would be seen that there was a necessity for obtaining official information, which would require time, and that it was but rersonable to permit me to have an interval in consequence.—(Hear, hear.) But if I am responsible for not proposing the, altera tion of the Corn-laws in one month, what is to be thought of that Government—(Tremendous: cheering)—l say, ' what is to be thought of that Govesnment which held office for five years, and never, until the month of May. 1841, intimated a united opinion on the question ? If you are • convinced that intolerable evils are inflicted on this country by the operation of the Corn-laws — that commercial distress may justly be attributed, and that the sufferings to which the working classes in some parts of the country arc exposed under those laws—what, I ' ask, is your responsibility for not having, in five years, brought forward any proposition to remedy the evil?— (Cheers.) Why did you leave it an open question ? (Cheers.) If you say you had no hope of carrying it, then I tell you that, when I make up any mind .for an alteration in the Corn-laws, no such consideration will induce me to act as you have acted. — (Great cheering.) No fear of my proposition succeed ing here, and being defeated there, would cause me to hesitate in stating to Parliament the decision of a united Cabinet, whatever might be the result. But you, having those opinions, permitted Lord Melbourne, in the House of Lords, to state that there was no necessity for altera tion, and to oppose inquiry. —(Renewed cheering.) You object to the men whom we have chosen to join us. Why did you make that man the Vice-President of the Board of Trade who was pledged to oppose all inquiry? Five years have elapsed without any action on the part of the late Government with respect to the Corn-laws. —(Hear, hear.) It was not till April, 1841, that you brought the question.of them forward. And why, if you entertained those feelings which you then represented with respect to them—why, I ask, did you not call the attention of the House to them in the Queen's Speech of 1840 ? Why reserve this question till you have made an appeal to the people, and have been left in a minority of 80?—(Cheers.) You brought forward the Corn-laws in 1841, and in a way that was most calculated to pre judice the mind of the country with respeet to them.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Of course there can be no doubt that the view you have taken with respect to that question is a philosophic one.—(A laugh.) No matter whether you raise one shilling or one million by the Corn-law duty you proposed, it was still your duty to call the attention of Parliament to. those subjects which were drying up the national prosperity.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") What reason could there be in 1841, at the commencement of the Session, why you should not have inserted in the Queen's Speech some recommendation analogous to that which you inserted when you found you could do no otherwise?—(Hear, hear.) You propose the al teration of the Corn-laws as a means of raising revenue, and your proposal is not a vague or general re commendation to take the Corn .laws into consideration; it can be no other than a recommendation to adopt the tax of Bs. a quarter on foreign corn.—(Hear, hear.) That was the proposal you made. Do you adhere to it now, or do you not ?—(Hear, hear:: When you recommended in your Queen's Speech, in August, 1841, that the Corn-laws should be taken into the consideration of Parliament, had your recommen dation reference merely to some vague and indefi nite inquiry into the operation of the Corn- laws?—(Hear, hear, hear.) Had it reference to the specific proposition made by you in the month of May preceding, for a fixed duty of eight shil lings upon the importation of foreign corn? If you say that you are not bound to adopt the fixed duty of Bs. a quarter, what must be your modesty in calling upon me to declare what measures I am prepared to adopt, if you already see reason to doubt the policy of imposing a fixed duty of Bs. a quarter on the importation of foreign corn?—(Cheers.) If you say that the subject is one still open to consider ation—that a new Parliament may entertain new views on the subject—then justify me in main ' taining ray present reserve, until I shall be enabled to give permanent effect to whatever measures I may propose. But if you, as you must, answer that you meant by that recommendation the imposition of an Bs. fixed duty, to be levied universally on the importation of foreign corn, without reference to price, then permit me to say that you owe some acknowledgments to myself and to others who had prevented you from carrying that measure into effect.- - (Cheers.) I may be allowed to say, that if that had occurred, which at one period seemed exceedingly likely to occur—if the weather had continued unfavour able, and the price of wheat had risen to 90s. a quarter, and your measure of a fixed duty of Bs. had been carried, we should probably have now been assembled under your auspices to seek from Parliament authority to do away with that duty which you had imposed. If it had been possible to have carried through Parliament your proposition at this moment, there would have been a fixed duty of Bs. a quarter levied on the im portation of foreign corn, and I think there would have been some contrast between the opera tion of that duty and the present operation of the law, by which a considerable quantity of wheat has been admit ted, or at least will be admitted, at a duty of Is. a quar ter. I cannot but think that circumstances might occur r which would render the levying of an Bs. duty exceed ingly embarrassing.—(Cheers.) Now, with respect to the subject of finance. The Noble Lord laments that I have brought forward no proposal involving permanent taxation. I regret that the Noble Lord will not take the decision of the House on the subject.—(Cheers.) I wish that he would take that decision.—(Cheers.) Having been engaged in the formation of an Administration-- having had all the arrangements to make consequent upon the forming a Government—having had to devote some time to those arrangements—the Noble Lord asks if we are prepared to bring forward any measure for increasing permanently the taxation of the country ? Now, 1 ask the House to consider what is the position I inherit ?—(Loud cheers.) For five years, Gentlemen opposite held power. In 1838, or rather I should say in 1837, the deficiency between expenditure and revenue amounted to 1,428,0001. In the year 1838 there was a deficiency of 430,00C1.; in the year 1840 the deficiency was 1,457,000/. In 1841 the deficiency amounted to 1,851,0001., making a gradual accumulating deficit up to the sth April, 1841, of 5,166,00 CL In the year ending the sth April, 1842, it is estimated, and estimated with lamentable truth, that this deficit in this single year will amount to 2,500,e00/. makincra total deficit—an accu mulating deficit (ill maybe allowed to use thephrase) on the last five years of 7,666,0001. I come to the administra tion of finance. I have been in office one month, and I ani asked at once to propose a remedy for this state of things.—(Ministerial cheers.) And what lights have I from the late Government ? If I look to your Budget, shall I repair the deficiency ? So far from it, I shall proceed to show, as time Noble Lord has provoked me ~, t o this discussion, that even if your Budget realised all your expectations, you must have proposed a vote of credit in order to make good your calculations—that you should, if your most sanguine calculations were verified, have to propose a vote of credit partaking of the character of that vote which my Right Hon. Friend will propose, to the amount of at least 800,000/. Foreseeing that there was to be a deficit of 2,500,0001., y ou propose your financial measures to repair this deficit. You propose to diminish the duty on Baltic timber, increasing that on Canadian, and the Chanchellor of the Exchequer took credit for 600,0001. to be derived from that change. Now I will prove to the satisfaction of every one of you that not one shilling of that 600,0001. would be obtained. Lord Sydenham has expressly declared, that although concurring in the general principle of the policy of an alteration in the timber duties—and I am not now di scussin g the com mercial policy of the alteration—l am only considering the financial part of this bearing of the Budget of the present year ; I am merely considering . the mere limited question—had I adopted your Budget I should b e s p ared the necessity in which I am at present involved. — ( Hear. ) Hear what Lord Svdenham says. On the 24th of April, 1841, he writes, "Great alarm is felt by those engaged in the timber trade at the prospect of any alteration in the duties levied on wood in the United Kingdom, and which may affect the protection afforded to colonial tan bar ; but the question must be decided by the Imperial Parliament on the view which it takes of the general in terests of the empire." He says, " I conceive that if trade diminish bears to any change be determined on that may disturb the pro porteinoonhthaotthtehre, colonial and b dforeie takengn ti as much as possible the loss to individuals by ' rendering the change gradual, as such a course is the über to most just as it is also the most politic ; but I must express a hope that whatever alteration may, be adopted, the recommendation of the Clumittee of 1835, of which I was Chairman, will be adhered to, namely, that the change should not affect the importation of the year, aince that- would bear extremely hard on the Colonial timber-merchant." I turn now to the recommendation. of that. Committee, and I find the recommendation given to which he alludes. The Report of that Com mittee is dated, Aug. 1835, and contains the following resolution :—" That it is the opinion of this Committee that if such reduction be made, so far as may he con sisteet with the interests of the revenue, it shall be made without an augmentation of . the duty on colonial timber," and the recommendation is " that it is the opinion of this Committee that any alte ration should not affect the shipments made in 1836." That is to say, Lord Sydenham, writing in 1835, recom mends that the alteration in the duty should be post poned to 1837—(Hear, hear)—and he (the Governor of Canada) responsible for the peace of that important .pro vince, strongly advised you to adhere to that resolution of 1835. If you had done so, as I believe you would, is it not clear as day that not a shilling could be derived from this source to meet the deficiency of the year ending April, 1842, and conse quently that the item 600,0001. must be struck out of the estimate ?—(Cheers.) Add this 600,0001 to the 800,0001. referred . to, and you have a clear deficit of 1,400,0001., for which no attempt was made to provide. —(Cheers.) I now, come to sugar. Upon sugar 700,0001 was to be received, and that in consequence of the im portation into this country of foreign sugar, on , which a duty of 375. was to be levied, being a differential duty of 12s. in favour of British sugar. By this a sum of ,700,000/. was to be raised. But such being the reduction in the price of British sugar, without the introduction of foreign sugar, I am disposed to doubt the statement of the Noble Lord, and that . of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that the revenue they calculated upon would accrue upon the introduction of foreign sugar. I have returns of the price of sugar from the 4th of May to the 7th of September, in the years 1840 and 1841. I believe the average price of sugar during that time was 565. 6d. I have not the exact calculation, but I am disposed to thinki it was more. I will .take period of six months, and I find the price for each month to be thus per cwt.:-57s 4d.,.565. 9d., 57s old., 58s. Id., 58s. 4d., 58s. 9d. These were the prices in 1840, and they Lwere as follow in the corresponding months M,1841 :-375.,365. slid., 365. 2d., 365. 4d., 365. 3d.,345. Bd. Let them compare the price of sugar for the last two weeks, ending the 7th of Sept. in 1840 and 1841, and they would find in the former year the price was 58s. 9d. per cwt. And in the latter 345. 9d., being a reduction of 24s.—(Loud cheers.) The average price of sugar since the 4th of May does not exceed 365. Bd., being subject to a duty of 255. The calculation of the Noble Lord was, that foreign sugar could only be imported when the price of sugar in the British market was 61s. The price of foreign sugar in bond is 225., and the duty of 375. added to this will make it :595., which will, be further increased by the .profits of the retailer. , The Noble Lord was correct when he stated that 61s. was,the price at which foreign sugar could be profitably imported, And here was the British sugar sold at a price not ex ceeding what the foreign grower could offer his at in the British market.—(Cheers.) And that being the case, and making a deduction for some quantity of imported sugar which was brought to market, what became of the promised 500,000/ ?—(Loud cheers.) I strike off 500,000/., and I have got 1,400,000/.—not in hand—(A, laugh)—but the reverse ; and I add this 500,000/ and 1,400,0001. together, and the sum is 1,900,000/, for which the late Chancellor of the Exchequer was to make provision by the laying on of new taxes, or a vote of credit.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") Now then comes the duty upon corn. We were to raise a duty upon corn to amount to 400,000/, as it appeared in that Budget. But, in order to justifythe calculations of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the duty raised from corn must have amounted to 1,500,000/, from corn alone. (Here some observation was made in an inaudible tone by Lord John Russell.) I beg the Noble Lord's pardon —it may be that I am making a mistake—l am speaking from my recollection of former debates, rather than from any attention which I have paid to the subject of late. But if I recollect right, the Chancellor of the Exchequer said, " I will estimate the produce of the Customs in 1841 to be equivalent to the produce of the Customs in 1840." Now a portion of the Custom duty of 1840 was 1,100,0001. raised from corn; and consequently that 1,100,0001 must be added to the 4,000,0001. for which the Right Hon. Gentleman took credit in his Budget ; because, if there was any deficiency from the 1,100,000 which was raised from corn in 1840, there would probably have been a corresponding reduction in the .Custom duty of 1841; consequently unless you could raise 1,500,00e1. from corn in 1841, the deficit, as I think I have already clearly shown, must have amounted to 1,500,000/.—(Hear, hear.) And however cordial the co-operation which the Noble Lord may receive from those who sit hehind him, yet, stating what they do with respect to the bread tax, and the injustice of subjecting to a heavy duty that which is the subsistence of the people—(Hear, hear) — can they hear with cordial satisfaction that a part of the Budget was to levy 1,800,0001 upon corn? And, although I know it is utterly impossible to expect their concur rence—although I know they will say that the prosperity of trade, and the regularity of commercial transactions is promoted by a fixed duty on corn ; yet, if I could meet them privately, and ask them which on the whole they would prefer when corn was at 735., a duty of ls. upon its importation, or a fixed duty of Bs., if they could divest themselves of their political character consistently with their views, they must make the choice of the Is. duty.— , (Hear, hear.) Now, with respect to the deficit of 1,500,00C1 Short as has been the time for considering the subject, I doubt whether that 1,500,000/., supposing the present amount of revenue to continue, is, in point of fact, the whole deficit upon which we may calculate ; and I am bound to say to the Noble Lord that I think the prospect of future years far from satisfactory. The Chancellor of the Exchequer has struck out of the estimate for future years the expenditure:which in the present year has been applied to China s and the Chan cellor of the Exchequer said that he thought they could not be called upon to provide anything like the sum he had stated for future years. Are these anticipations likely to be realised ? I say nothing whatever of the policy of the operations in China, but I do ask if it is not probable that the demand which will be made on us in future years for the service of the present, on account of the Chinese operations, will far exceed the sum of 400,000/. But this is the estimate of the expense of the Chinese operations :—" China ; estimate of the sum re puired to be voted for the year 1841, on account of the expenses of the expedition in China. The expenses al ready incurred, appear by the last returns presented to Parliament, to have amounted, so far as they can be esti mated, to 625,2931." This paper is dated 28th May, 1841, and the period to which it referred was long ante cedent. r will venture to say that this expense of 625,2931. had been incurred in October, 1840. And now you have to provide for the expense that has been incurred 'in October, 1840. And what are your means of judging of the amount of that expense ? This is all the informa tion we have upon the subject—" No account has been received from which an accurate estimate can be formed." —(Hear, hear, and laughter from the Ministerial benches.) But I do read in the Newspapers some state ments respecting the probable expenses of the Chinese expedition. There is a letter from Captain Senhouse of her Majesty's Navy, addressed to Mrs. Noble, and dated the 10th March, 1341, in which he stated, that " for eight months we have been exercising unparalleled for bearance and kindness to the Chinese, thereby incurring an sxpense of probably the full amount of the remune ration we are seeking for." It appears, then, that a great additional expense must be incurred. I do nut, I repeat, say a word as to the policy of the expedition ; I am speaking of the question merely . as one of finance. I am not saying anything of the subject politically, but I wish to state my opinion that no prudent Chancellor of the Exchequer, calculating the future expenses of the country, would omit from his consideration the probable demand on account of the Chinese operations.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord has made a speech calculated not to make a favourable impression as to my position, and likely to add to the difficulties which must encompass any man now occupy ing office—(Hear, hear)—but I do not hesitate to tell the Noble Lord that I look with alarm to the growing tendency to an increased expenditure in our colonial pos sessions. I have here before me a paper which declares the necessity of taking a 'comprehensive view of the civil expenses to be incurred in the Island of Hongkong. Well, then, here he wants 9,00 C/. for the present year, but he hopes the Government will see the necessity of large and comprehensive views on the foundation of the new colony. But I come to New South Wales, and I her the House to remember that this is the position in which I find affairs.—(Cheers.) This is the position in which I nun called upon to estimate expenditure and make provision to meet it. As to New South Wales, I have read a despatch dated in January, 1841, from Sir Geo. Gipps, in which he stated that he had issued a great number of bounty warrants—no less than to 71,315 emi. grants, the estimate for which amounts to—what do you think ? Why, to no less than 979,563/—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord contemplated such a state of things with great alarm, and most justly rebuked the Governor for such profuseness. The Governor said they were in New South Wales involved in great commercial difficulty and embarrassment, but in that they . were like the Bri tish nation. But it will not here be held that the greater the embarrassment the greater ought to be the expen diture. The Noble Lord had most wisely put an end to the system; but, do what we will, a sum of not less than 500,000/ will be .left to be provided for in sonic way or another. Let us come now to South Australia. But I must hold the Government responsible for employing instruments who would dare to incur such profuse lia bilities. But these are items which we must provide for— we must consider—have I not a just right, therefore, to demand time for their Consideration?—(Cheers.) As to South Australia, such was the desperate condition of that colony, that even last year we voted 155,000/. for extricating it from difficulty, and since the Noble Lord quitted office bills to the amount of 14,0001. have been presented and protested by . the British Treasury; and from the dates, I feel convinced that more are now on the way home, and they also will b e p ro t este d , b ut I much fear that we will be obliged to pay both the bills and the expense of the protest. I now come to New Zealand, and it appears that bills to the amount of 33,0001. have been drawn by the Bank of New Zealand upon New South Wales.—(" Hear," and a laugh.) Don't flatter yourselves that this is all, for there is an indica tion that there are bills to the amount of 54,000/. addi tional on their way.—(Hear, hear.) Now I come to Canada, for which the estimate of last year was 6,0001, but since the Budget was brought forward the credit of this country has been guaranteed for a loan to Canada to the amount of 1,500,0001. I am not questioning the policy of that step, but here is a new engagement which this country has contracted. You have, in addition, guaran teed an expenditure of 100,000/, a-year for fortifications. —(Lord J. Russell made a remark across the table.) I was not aware that that had been set aside, but giving the Noble Lord credit for the vigilance with which he has acted, you must still consider my position, and say whether I am not justified in the great apprehension I have expressed with regard to the growing expense of our colonial establishments, and which will ultimately fall upon this country?—(Hear, hear.) I appeal to any man, whatever his political opinions may be, whether I have not already "referred an almost conclusive claim to being permitted to review all those matters? Still the 11•Toble Lord s - ays we should permit Parliarth to slvirate without some atres; but I e - would it not be more desirable to have an opportunity of settling our affairs with the United States, if settled they ; can be? The House must be aware that commercial treaties, are pending with Naples, :with Texas, with Portugal, with the Brazils, and above all with Franee. I say nothing of the policy of that treaty, but it was under consideration, and was suspended in consequence of the quadruple treaty of July. It is reasonable, it is necessary, that we should understand the views of France—that we should understand the view on the subject of the com mercial treaty with that country. That treaty proposes the introduction of French brandy at a reduced taxa tion. Now, would not such a measure effect the impor tation of colonial rum, of wine and other articles of that nature? Would it be fit, would it be right, to settle a question of that nature till you have first decided what your commercial relations with that country are to be? Is not the demand I make for time to eonsider these things, a demand founded, not upon personal con siderations, but on considerations of the public good? If these things are to be undertaken, they should be brought to a close at the time when they are undertaken, and tuey should not be proposed by a responsible Government without having it allowed some time for the purpose of considering such comprehensive questions. Sir, the Noble Lord has spoken in a just, frank, and handsome manner, with respect to the course I pursued in advising the Crown as to the constitution of the Government: Let me, however, remind the Noble Lord of the confidence of the predictions with respect to the coarse which I might take. Was I not told, night after night, that in the formation of a Government I should be the reluctant and degraded instrument of those men who were ready to offer every insult to their Roman Catholic fellow countrymen—that would hoist the standard of ascendancy, and that would demand from me complete and servile acquiesencc? That was said to be the inevitable consequence of my accession to power. Well, the moment for the verifying of those prediction, has passed, and the Noble Lord has admitted that over that difficulty at least I have triumphed, and that I have constituted a Government in a manner that has satisfac terily shown that the affairs of the country shall be di rected with impartiality. Sir, I make no concessions for the purpose of purchasing support. I intend to admi nister the law with firmness—l hope with vigour. I will not permit the administration of Irish affairs to be influenced by conciliating support in the House of Corn mons.—(Ministerial cheers.) I do say this after the compliment which the Noble Lord has paid me. I have. 0, right to eay..that the engagements, into - which I have entered with regard to the administration of impartial justice shall, as far as they depend on me, be fulfilled. The appointment of my Noble Friend, Lord de Grey, who with just reluctance, was induced to undertake the im .p.)rtant functions . which wean him. from occupations and enjoyments the most refined and honourable, and credit able to man—the appointment of my Noble Friend Lord Eliot—the appointment of my lion. and Learned Friend, Sir Edward Sugden, to the Chancellorship— those appointments do, I say, give guarantee, strong as it could be given, of my determination to adhere to strict impartiality—my Right Hon. Friend, the Lord Chancellor of Ireland, felt himself under obligation, as he was in the receipt of a pension for the Chancellorship —a pension honourably acquired by him, after a sacri fice of professional emolument, but for a short discharge of public official duty—my Right Hon. Friend felt it to be his duty at once to resume his present position. But I do not hesitate to say, that if circumstances occurred to prevent his assumption of office, I would have selected from the Irish bar a Chancellor—l would have paid that compliment to a portion of the profession, which stands as high as any other portion of it in the empire. With regard to what has been said of the impossibility of my performing my public duty, with respect to other matters—with respect to the domestic policy of this country—l can assure the Noble Lord it is my intention to act upon a sense of public duty, and to propose those measures which my own convictions of the public interest shall make me desirous to carry. It is right that there should be a distinct understanding as to the terms on which a public man holds his place. The force of circumstances and a sense of public duty have compelled me to un dertake the harrassing and laborious office which I now fill. What would be any inducement to me to make the sacrifices which it demands ? What can be an in ducement but the hope of rendering service to my eoun• try and of acquiring honourable fame ? (Ministerial cheers.) Would Igo through the labour which it im poses if I could not claim for myself the liberty of pro posing to Parliament those measures which I shall be lieve it my duty to propound ? Ido with confidence assure those who hear me that no consideration of mere political associations should induce me to hold such an office as I now fill by servile tenure which should compel me to be the instrument of carrying men's opi nions into effect.-(Hear, hear.) I do not estimate lightly the distinction which it confers. It is only valuable—not from the patronage which it enables me to sustain—not from personal distinc tion—but it is only valuable to any man fit for holding it for an hour from the opportunity which it gives him of serving his country. Therefore I feel that every man confers an obligation on me who places me in this office ; but at the same time I reserve to myself the power of giving up its onerous duties the moment I feel I cannot discharge them with satisfaction to the country and to myself. Lord PALMERSTON said, whether the Right Hon. Baronet had reascns for abstaining from making that ex position of his views which his (Lord Pahnerston's) Noble Friend thought he ought to make before Parlia ment separated, and whether the reasons which he had given were satisfactory to himself and to Hon. Members who sat behind him, he (Lord Palmerston) could not tell, but he would take leave to say that, having listened with great attention to all that had fallen from the Right Hon. Baronet, he did not think that the reasons he had assigned would be held to be satisfactory by the country at large.—(Opposition cheers.) The Right Hon. Ba ronet had challenged his Noble Friend to take the sense of the House upon the opinions on which that side or the other side might differ. They knew well, from the results of the last elections, what the decision of the House upon a question of that kind would be. However the Hon. Baronet might plume himself on the majority by which he was now supported, he would tell him to refrain from reposing unlimited confidence in that support, because he should recollect that there was a country as well as a House of Commons.—(Ministerial cheers and counter Opposition cheers.) Let him not too confidently rely upon the opinion of that majority by which he was supported, although technically he was en titled to represent it as the opinion of the country. Un doubtedly it was not with reference to our foreign rela tions that his Noble Eriend had said that the Right Hon. Baronet ought to keep the Parliament sitting for a longer period at .present, or call it together again at an early period. It was not on that ground his Noble Friend rested his observations. The first point on which he thought some communications of its inten tions from a new Government were due to the country, was with regard to the Corn-laws. I must say that I think the reply of the Right Hon. Baronet on that subject was any thing .but satisfactory. The Right Hon. Baronet said that he had been out of office ten years, but he had not been out of the country—he had not been out of active occupation of public affairs—he had not been out of that House—he knew what had been passing in the country—he had given his attention to the state of public affairs, and if any man was compe tent to form an opinion on the interests of the country, especially on that particular question, he (Lord Palmer ston) said that the Right Hon. Baronet, from his attain ments, his habits, and his pursuits, was the man who was competent to do so. But then the Right Hon. Baronet said, that if he was to be reproached with not being ready with an opinion on the Corn-laws, to what re proach was the last Government exposed, which remained three years in office without having passed a measure on that subject.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Why really that argument he (Lord Palmerston) was rather' surprised the Right Hon. Baronet would condescend to use because it would be open to every man, when any great measure was proposed, to say, " Why, you arelto blame for not proposing that measure sooner." Why, with respect to every measure of importance, there were certain circumstances that led to the proposing of them, and it was not a matter of reproach of those persons who proposed them that they did not bring them forward at an earlier period than the one at which they chose to do so. However, those with whom he (Lord Palmerston) acted in concert had proposed that measure. When they proposed it before it might be said that the question had not been laid before the public, that the parties whom it interested had not been called on to look at it with.a view to their own concerns ; but in the pre sent instance the question had been brought before the public. The discussion of it had been defeated; how ever, by the proceedings of the last Parliament,' and therefore the Right Hon. Baro ne t did not stand, with re - ,r e ed to the Corn-laws, in 'the position which the last Government stood with regard to that question. H e (Lord Palmerston) must now take that opportune o f saying, that the Right H on . B aronet m i g h t h ave a - stained from giving his authority to the frequently con tradicted misrepresentations of what had fallen from Lord Melbourne in the other House of Parliament. The Right Hon. Baronet had given his sanction to the stu diously circulated misrepresentations of that Noble Lord's words. Sir ROBERT PEEL, in a low tone of voice, made some observations across the table. We understood_ Lord Right Hon. B arone t t o disclaim what the Noble L r ( e L m or ak drPstil on Lordmers Melbourne's Palmerston) )hadlatrttnies words.ihutedto him relative to his Lord PALMERSTON went on to say that he under stood the . Right Hon. Baronet to allude to the opi nions of Lord Melbourne on the Corn-laws. The Right Hon. Baronet said he wondered the colleagues Gentlemen e t of Lord Melbourne woul d remain in office with hi m , as that Noble Lord disagr eed with them on th e measures they proposed. was of Parliament, would s ee w h at Lord ny so iC often a the one h w a h n o d s w of u l n o t o ie k ul to that or op posite, I)soikte The hich Mirror Melbourne had said. That Noble Lord repudiated any measure which would tend to deprive the agricultural interest of all protection, but he was by no means pre pared to say t h a t circums tances might not arise w hi c h approvewould i n duce him i t t o ightH of a ch ange i n the existing Corn-laws. Ihe Hon. Baronet said that he did not mean to say what he (Lord Palmerston) attributed to him. It was not with regard to any change in the Corn-law which made Lord Melbourne express that opinion—it was with regard to a chango w hi c h would abolish all duty. The Right Hon. Baronet gave them to understand that a change in the Corn-laws he was prepared to propose, but that he re frained from proposing that change until he could do it at the head of a united Government. Now, looking at the constitution of that Government—seeing who were the Members of which it was composed—looking at the opinions of those who held high office in that Govern ment, but were not Members of the Cabinet—if the Right Hon. Baronet said that he was to wait before proposing his intended change in the Corti-laws till he MORNINGS N was at the head of a united' Governm , el t. he (Lhrd P .d. merston) would verinm, to preitiet. ..,:ie :4- ' -H' i I; quire not tile five months curet g whie;, _1'..., - would be prorogued, but five years.—(Hear, liei.r./ But he (Lord Palmerston) did not think that to, want of leisure stated prevented the Right Hoti. Baro net from considering the subject. ' Ilis Noble Friend d id I urge him to it now—this week or - next week -but 141 Noble Friend objected justly that this 'question, 1 10 1 been broached since th e spring of the year, the hea d . the new Government had ample tinge to e- form art ePi n : jo o , on the subject, and Parliament. ShoUld not now bo 12: ie rogued till the beginning of February next, inciting ot whole country in a state of uncertainty, not r.s4o ' . i d Government intended to propos e , but whether OS % "„%d propose any change at all. - As'to himself (Lord f.) "; si those lately in 'power, they had been performillg I ° ,o disagreeable offices, anti :nothing -could he re' pleasing than a prolongation of relaxation froni bush; o _ , at the present time, Incu When a question was to be c ,4 sidered which involved the interests of a great portie,,'A the community, the Right Hon. Baronet was not ie st '; in the course he intended to adopt. But the Right - 11 ' a Baronet said they expected him to state his visit's' "1, asked, would even they themselves now stand by the D' l e • sures which they proposed? He (Lord PalmerSten) Is plied, undoubtedly they would. The Right Iliin ) . 13 , , gre to said if by bad weather the price of eornliiidl'ssedi', y 80s. or 905., would they dare-to propose - theirli d 1 ..0 of Bs. ? The Right flan. Baronet talked e 4 . 13 :he 1 rising high in this country ;if he asMig 1 ° Val price had risen very high in the : 'aililtitil4e ' .:,,i which corn was to come, then, inciceelie 4 .1 , 1 t:, it that the increased price and expen'SS"M . ' itnP,oll'''"„ Le would be too great to admit of 'britigini it lute tlfie T r try. But it was hero that the:pride rnseAhe'Constill'.:nt ing of a supply of corn under a fired dutk'vLarilti, t r e `,. - ..t those fluctuations. which were noW •the' c4 ) o_e,:°`,, g, t -l o ' f suffering to the people ; and an injury to tlV`i•rl,re L l e Tl L' it the country. He did say , thatithey would Stilin * uY', - : ' ,o budget, and they. had , a 'right, to; know the 'Meta l , t• which Hon. Gentlemen opposite would stand by I 1 -0 •7 ; ' :14 ever might be the weight 'of the'assdrtions of the )-"c, 3 , Hon. Baronet as to his having little leisure for thoSe c l e d siderations during the few days in which he was e io i ;ratf in forming a Gov e rnm en t, w h en he' (Lord "'I 'l4t that Government, he could well understand the t rots of forming it. He was not in the least disposeal ° ' r ei n derrate it, but he m a intain e d th a t P ar li ament ought.`g to be sent to the right about till February next, Mee the country in total ignorance whether they were L „, ° ,,d'.l the Corn-law as it was, or whether they meant '•,,, - , 0 of the sliding scale, or whether they were for a SY, s ,: - ,„ - ( it• fixed duty, and intended to propose that. to Pare .a r ie of That was the opinion which they maintained, e ° ,_ - „,, es would not oblige Hon. Gentlemen by giving tu e 7, , c 1 opportunity of counting on that question their e e Of majority. Still he thought the country woUld '' .4 opinion that both the agricultural and the manufaet°:(':-' interests should be informed as to the intentions °' oe vernment ; and all parties should feel that noW A country should not let the Parliame n t separate L ea r.) long a period without coming to any decision.- - ( -1 Well, then, the Right Hon. Baronet said that pr'i il l / was made to show how little they had conshleree„se. question ; that in the budget, for instance, the I '''',,ll 01, cellor of the Exchequer was wrong even 16 '1 1 ;11i showing. And, first, with regard to timber. Th 6. 1, 1 1e Hon. Baronet stated that ev e n accor di ng t o the es- u „.4 tion of the late Chancellor of the Exchequer, the'e l l; in the timber duty would not p ro d uce t h e amount -er tor lated. And why ? What proof did he propose; i- -0 thing stated by his (Lord P's..) Right Hon. Friend' - . ; , - e i• t, thing. Anything stated by the budget ? NI °t .V .Ol but an opinion of the Governor-Genera .. , , Canada and a Report of the House of Connr ° ;i l -.4 (Hear, hear.) Why, the simple answer t°' : cos was, that whatever weight was j us tly d ue t o that 4 , l ) Piee or recommendation that was not the measure th e e! ; to Government had proposed to Parliament, and the r 1 i, that elaborate argument fell enti re ly t o the gr ° ',. r because it rested not upon the l a t e G ove rnment' l'• r posal, but on an opinion of Lord Sydenham, arl a r ''air commendation of a Committee of th e House of - „_ (! f11 mons.—(Cheers.) The sam e w ith rega rd to ''T . 3O. The Right Hon. Baronet said that they (the late ~,,i vernment) had reckoned that so much foreign • s-u s icl would be imported to pay th e hi g h er d u ty, but F' e ti Cie , the quantity of Briti s h sugar so great ly e xceed- - ~,a calculation, that the price had fallen considerab l r' ,rot I therefore foreign s u gar a t a hi g h er d u ty would , i ; meet with the demand nec essar y t o p ro d uc e the f' l3l “, )l ' / 0 , of duty expected. This, again, was a falliseY• i „ late Chancellor of the Exchequer had made his ea e l, 'e tions either way. He had said, "If the supply ce,,, e , e tish sugar continued small, and the price therefore ' l l ,O then I get the duty I want by the duty iel it foreign sugar that comes in; if, on the contrary, th.er e le an unexpected increase in the supply of English Suf-',, then that increased supply will give an increase dr`,4 duction of duty at the rate of 245., and in that woe' I e d e the supply I want. If the consumption in 1841 NU LI S pt consumption in 1831, then I get the amount I w en t , a l the 245. duty, ,and anything made on foreign ; l k brought in will be so much gain e d i n a ddition to th f ;: e s want."—(Hear, hear.) Then the Right Hon. Bar ° . o il stated that not only therefore was our budget defie' , 4 with regard to the amount the late Government reclOti;) on getting—with regard to which he (Lord l'au ee i ',„ s t ')ls had shown that his argument was fallaciolls-T-afe stated that he found, on looking through the " ' ° Vi!lit ments of the Government, that the expenses country greatly exceeded what had been stated v rt now demands were daily coming in, and h e (Sir 3 ° i ) te Peel) said, " Can anything be - more unreafiove,i,i than to expect me to state any fre 2 ' ll ,eS views before I know what these additional 'exPV"„ot are?" His Noble Friend (Lord John Russell) ha" •:,e asked the Right Hon. Baronet to mike a financial ,st.,, went then.—(Hear, hear.) He had stated so distint/i He said certainly that the Right Hon. Baronet si ° ea t state his opinion as to the measures the late Govern ce j o f had proposed, s i nce th e y were measures n ot nier e 4f4 finance, but affecting the general interests of the c os Ae. of But the representations the Right Hon. Baronet no' u t „I those unexpected demands was not altogether so g r roil was required for the justification he was making. ite , were told, with regard to China, that the expereje_ " - oil exceeded the 400,0001. stated in the estimate ; rj° ,,ip; t Right Hon. Baronet also stated that the ex cess wow; ~i be called for till the year 1842, and therefore wee! ie " e ee be added to the deficiency of th e p resen t year.- -- (- 1- : e l ' hear.) The Right Honourable Baronet said tha'',,e, accounts had been received on which a detailed est ize l i S could be framed. He must know the reason wa s ' i va , the expense of the expedition was defrayed by the r ,,P if . India Company, and that it was only when the " / „. ( :0 pany's accounts were made out, that he could state , r e P ,a their claim was, and therefore the operation was °„° ;14J simple as if the bills were drawn on the Treasury '``,„ .1 first instance. " But then," said the Right Hon. Eaf n ,": l o c l.# "I have authority which enables me to form an 0 1 1. ; r 10, and that is a letter from the Captain of a man - of 4i- e se" A Mr. Noble, who was taken yrisoner by the Cish,.e , And that letter, written in the style in which an ° , ° ,i,„ei spondence between friends on such occasions was wr.:;• e f.t was offered to the House of Commons by the -',.. 11 5-• Honourable Baronet as a ground on ' which 1w,.. e l cial calculations were to be made.—(Hear, and Chet' Then they were told that they came to something i 11 ' .4 gible, for Captain Senhouse said that they were, base,on at such a rate, and spending hi s mone y so ex til ' . c eil gently, that they actually proposed to ma k e a . 11 13 ,,,i n iia .r e the whole extent of the Island of Hong-Kon•g.—Oft - 1 e‘ ter.). He (Lord Palmerston) did not kn o w the eat en be that island; whether.it was five miles or seven re iie :a e° ~, was not prepared to say ; but if the Go vernm ent f,,;01 11 other unexpected deficiency to provid e f or , he t . " 7710 they would not find.much difficulty in getting out °„,- 10 emoarrassment.—(Hear.) He then came to Ausl - iii i respecting which the Right Hon. B arone t sta';ed I t) 1 enormous expenditure had been contemplated hY. ea l Governor-General: But what did his Noble Fr, ji, (Lord John Russell) ? The moment he heard of 1 1 1,1 ,1 stopped it.—(" No," from Sir Robert Peel.) Ile -„le not stop it all, ut he stopped all that he ' c7 s - ti3 Then, said the Right Hon. Baronet, 500,000/. ninti e) be provided for by the country. He (Lord Paliner7,l ° l)ti was satisfied that if not all, at least 300,0001. we LIT be provided for by the colony ; but if 200,0001. she t'cli" chargeable on the country that would be the re i r c i l 10 but he had reason to hope that no such claim ty"" l2- r l ll'' made. The Right Ron. Baronet then stated 111 „ a t :rt tt: bills drawn in New Zealand were expected to ts'in t •i - , 3 1 - k ate(' 100,0001., whereas the late Government had. 'e s - 11 - „, - nc 6 , them only at 6,000/. Why, -the Right Hon• '' e „, •-r e ° oo ( ` knew full well that an excess of expenditure `Thbi' t the estimated amount, was liable tell happen 1 . t3: 45 certain limits at all times, in all years ; lira if e ,ts' Right Honourable Baronet postponed the S t t ke ment of his financial views until he got e t colonies in such a state of order that no G o yerni°,,iCi of the most remote island could draw more bills 010'04 was authorised to draw, he (Lord Palmerston) f o r afraid the House of Commons might be prorogue" ~5 ) proposed theole even a longer period than to February next.--(Che t ° ~f . O insufficient, HrGiee 0n (vd i Le f . ro t nr h lmd e t e c nj h bto a ah r dhn g a e riieß o fn f euors l et : He thought, therefore, all those reasons would .",: i. financial measures ; but that was .n the P obecti °l3 ' been be e n th at .e t h F e t h l i e i s r a t N i o o n b s l was incumbent on the Government which "_., 1 ., him. out on those (Chee , '1 ..7 , great trestions— he were • whichit v .., in power-.now they had a nrdi''' :it i "ieg reference stiochiet)en Noble r o}p'riend j'3i' . • ic i would enable them to their riue-2"' carry- ri they v into practice—to, say whether or not . ou ro tended while ' in ower to pursu the same ° •is they had outpursued,e • 1 -eats ° , of power, to refuse all ra a• e .. th hac g l re t a l j .i t . o e i r i!: o :s (l ,l sta o of our commercial system—(Hear, hear) —and re - ,, e sd' on the prin • ciples of restriction and mono oly.—(C tl- t - foe' The !light Hon. Baronet said that that pwas not a - t i, o , " at which thos e ma tt ers cou ld b e proper l y se ttled b Y be l G overnment. He (Lord P a l mers t on ) a d ir itted tha t t s ,l • had not had leisure for many things, b'at Inc did 14 1 1 A nit that, with regard to the Corn-queF'cion, any new o f , Ives "• • o could be thrown upon it by ran • k: sac Ir. g- the archive s i , )5 Board of Trade, or the Foreign-oF - H •) ---be- .ce—( (He a r )"b • 0 h all the information that was desirable had lone' he t '• lilt fore the people ; and if any mi.n could not m ake 1 1 1 3 . ..: . .0. mind on that information, he thought lie • m ight 1 `: ,er himself blind, or spend his •_l'ire at it, yet not aro r,E' lio j ti moment sooner at, a satisfactory conclusione-"0 cheering.) But, the Right Honourable Baronet ii:', it there were great public reasons which reuderetaw, impossible to state the views of the Governmen t °,l efe.;se questions—that many commercial negotiations will., pending with foreigr_ nations --that there were neg is tiaras with Frew . , e about a tariff that a eenTer4o4 treaty was penr ) :ing between En g l an d and Portugal-00 a commercie. i treaty had been proposed With Te x ri te lf i that it w•„ possible commercial neg otiations nu 7; rite' openFd. with the U n it e d S tates o f America and with f e r Braids. All these things were true, but that ' 3 '''' d e pee his (Lord Pahnerston's) argument and not for the 'Vat' meat of the Right Hon. Baronet.—(Hear, heel's ') a titr i more countries with w h om we h a d un settled Deg ate titres relating to commercial intercourse the more elreel . cent was it to proceed without loss of time ',O retOtpe, the fetters that incumbered the industel el these' country.—(Cri e s o f "H ear , h ear .") Luleed , 11 0 matters were not fit subjects for negociat;,on. SIIQ to not pn, %rot • the • IV( :. • Pal: the . dozi the An oth us ‘.l tips 40t1 3 d; 3 : 11 . 3.(1 3ii of t :g“1,141 -Ntokt .4 31 1 • 1 4141 , .per for tha sou par ~ wit inir gre not rity niot (II( and Lie! out - , t.Peo] lller r ,! l, (..)ffie .wo u act ( coul give stati ;41.1)J lora cool 'was Tha - fore •opir :fore very c orr 1 0„r4 . e, 110 h p►;op' pg lop ti le ti 'at -CI 11 ate ~t ~ ~ Rig Ilie atin MC 11 I) pro' Prtty ,--