The Sun. — London, England, 1819-03-09 00:00:00

r ". ,c corn one of the lebdire g e'ases oo tlrfs solject, the ‘s i : Ll P tin a had not heeir pioved to be universal ; of t:.P:iitrßnElT said' he coald not partake wasthat virtuous indigbation at a practice which ea , r ,ried on to as great an extent in every -ter soorough its the kin.dom as in this onfor ta.n, ate Borough of Penrvn..--- , (N o , no! : _ tt les of the House.)—Tbote who from all were present ryas the House about ten years ago., wlren a charge made against one of his Majesty's Ministers, 14 who recollect that the House fin that occa tlon'refused to i !orr nstitote a gen era l imptiry into the u ptions of the Borough System, must recol teet that it ryas then stated iii the House that the e xlst ence of t h ese corrupt practices was as open e 1 . 3 the sun th at all the Boroughs in the kingdom. were r ta the same situation With respect to these core ,ttpt p ractices as the Borough of Penryn. 'There fore all d eclarations of abhorreoce at these prac te" we re merely spec i osa verha re inania. He ,1.6111`l riot agr ee to sio.le out this one 130 Hers - OuKhhe th e •‘e very ngea:rce of the House, when all same situation. II the evil di ad mitted, its g enet a li ty must a l so b e admit s: ' a nd they should adopt some venet al meo- He would ask those Gentlemen who "N °'' to iris a ssert i on that the corrtrWroi as general, w h ether there was less of it in (Jul r :: 11) th an in Peuryn ? In short, Mr. Swann Celt , emher o f t h e House t h at h e 6gllops : e%ery Nl as guilty as himself—mute/a nomine de to fa tnlj Yet he most be declared so highly Rio e, and t h i e n d ibganraet i(:1)f mention F St rouse e ev f ery Il‘hree nt:bffeer':—c e the il e4 th t he eviden ce b e f ore t h e Committee, it ap red that the p r i ce o f a vote i n Penryn was 17: /• w hi ch was very 0 moderate—not above e 1 j f "soal mar k et price of 2.500/. for a seat.— pal t l iis was an ev il, t h ere s h ou ld b e a gene thrlniry, and for want of that the chat ec : th ti t'i the H ouse was lost in the country. H sk,:fore enold not agr e e to 'take any further step ' l st thi s b oron . %) nor could he agree to the 3sttr eu hicii had been adopted towards' ' Mr. 4,:un• if the borough system was to continue,.. tii.0111(1 rather have boroughs openly salean L 'o' lleW many Gentlemen who would very sed felirl'i give 40001. or 50001. for a seat in the House, luirtl4, „ the of an opportunity to propose , n e t i e se a : ral e ,, B ,,"'hieb they believed would be for the it eevilet age arlr lIRAND.said he would not 'yield to the Hon. i t)1 1 ° 6 11" who spoke last, nor to any other perit tie sott, must zeal for a I% r li a bu t mentary Reform, Inotest against hi s d octr i nes . H e was most it,i x ou le`as that a thorott.h reforni shoUld teke pl .e ace re Presenta t i ve - system. And he really h . t hat batt l e this time some effectual mea siire tl 11 w°lll 4l have been adopted towards effectiug a rts.leatl•it not been for the wild and ith i t " a ry schem e which the Hon. Baropet bad been l le .t"le "tal obtiuding on the House, e,()„"!"1.Y.--(Louil cheer ing.)—But and on when such alltier%"„were proposed tinder the name of' Reform . , "f t r t a :":alper,O tts Were deterred from the pursuit 1 vim -vagant I)l 4 l ,``' l lect by the odd, violent, at" %le l'araPos-ed tinder its nanae.--(Nlnch cheering,) tte s lt t , 4 not one of those who, because no gene n r a a! 1 4, 110 1 e wg, adopted, woohl refuse the feto u rt e, h e , Particular part of rife system.—( tin!' ''eat I the Chancellor of the Ex d)-laer 11.(7--` t t : 1 Commi , tee had 7eio„ ' , him that because t I ' it "Poo the merits•of the last Election, that it'te,;"ase W as precluded froin.revising the s . o - ‘°s . s r 41 1 that ' the Committee had to enquire into ittr e l le last El ect i on ; and they had wisely t,e sibt:,4' all evidence that went beyond the lucre 11 4 yet of th e i r i ng „i t y._ , B ot , nevrrtbeless, enough lio e e°lll e out ou that investigation to satisfy I '!rat they must proceed farther. .. I e . C HAISO ELLoti of the ExCHECWERCXpIainee. lie had - no objection to postitone the h it , of th e writ .--(llear, hear 1 .) ken li tAumnicr spoke- -shortly for 0)7 amend to • MARTI N sa id, t h a t his principal objection t4 t .le 1 ""lio u 'vas, that' it tended to Pall iamen 'l4 1 4 Ltt.° Fol of th e wo r s t species. He was more . ' l r 'sed to th i e impose' of (he Hon. Baronet _ r /1 ;i - 1 4 1 1.4 '0, that if any inquiry was necessary, it r `l be a general one. He thought that no l 't t y tli f l er who had ever voted against Parliamen ll'ti- - ‘ e forni could vote for further enquiry into Nt' l ' easC * No general corruption had been.proved th` e h ost the borototh, and it was unjust to pon ti i 4 % 111 1 i an Y the transgressions of the few. , to therefore vote against any socu proposal eri git a species of premature Parliamenta ry 11fi r. ANKBS agreed, that in cases where gr oss 1 1 tl Pa tPable c o rruption was proved against the h l est ht Y 61. elfunOts, ' disfranchisement was the i s .°ll 4' r c a l i ct ' ea l mode of effecting a moderate Ree 'est it was impossible to resolve on th 5/.( isi : Ide of Proceeding in this case, without i bat e kepi's bow. they had acted in others of bad T O the delay in issuing the writ he P r ece:l )4)b .leetion` ; but he was not aware of any ititi ti f" e llt for appointing a second Committee to Itlui le into a ease of this kind ; and he was not kn. ri g to proceed to such a measure unless he Ix Si r j a Y Plainly before hon. h, ( IN Na'XPORT thought that the House ""tmd to proceed further this matter. 1 he th'eld-bills which /tad been produced went to affect ret) great body of the Electors. If it were con otld that tire House, by the Report of this tillai ttee. was precluded from 4 ,e . 1:, it would proceeding for go to this—that the House would taustlicate the right of pi (needing further in every s'qhere' u nless, in th e retur n of °or inoividual Mem at one individual El t• vidence of cor eec ton, C bP ti Qh the whole body of Electors could Proveil, appear in this case, that meet _„.tr the g , were held by i ttf. ,rest bodi es of the Electors Electo to mselves tor sale. The cry svio2--.. Ham Swam i given the breakfast ?"--" N" ;_ ,yo thitk hi ' eive von Ge br,-akfest ?" 3, " 1)0\111 Wi!ll Mr. Swann, then !" It t(Cty 'e r rY -- --'` Great is Dim n of the Ephesiaos !" .'ght‘,L)----No vote noles s the breakfast, and ;;I:cywenty-fotir po nn i„ a (man . was a case rititli the 110,ISe as and to vindicate itsc l l ) l ut tr l' o d m to l the aspersions of )rnteeri ng corruption. betiv,l"-._ W mtet v, as a Member of the Convoi' tee, Say a few Words. It aneared that Mr. Swann had endeavoured to retorrn toe corropttob, ix-1 1 kb had prevailed i . ri-this - Borough. 'This ins pleased ,the Electors, and they sent_ to London for a new Candidate, the report of whose wealth ex cited their hOpes. llThen this new Candidate came down, Mr. Swann was obliged to have re course to the old system. He appeared in public, and held up a large bag of money, calling out— " Here is plenty of money, my boys, b,,t I must not give it you myself or I might be turn ed out of the House.'' But be beckoned his agent into a room, and the money was afterwards distributed, Mr. Anderton, the other Can dhlate, then circulated a band-bill., declaring that Mr. Swann had been guilty of notorious and public bribery, and that all votes given to him were thiown away. Mr. StVann returned the compliMent, and pnblished a similar bill against Mr. Anderton. The .bribery oath had not been administered ; and, indeed, it was well known thai in the borougus of Cornwall, if any Candi date was so impolitic as tti require an Elector 'to take the bribery oath, he would he sure to lose his election. These were the facts which came out before the Committee. Mr. WY s N begged the House to observe, that not only iu the present case, but in 1807, gross corruption had been proved against•this borough —thirre gross than any ever proved, Vibich had not been followed up by any nieas ore for a dis franchisement. He Ititiritted-, that taking the mi nutes of evidence before the Cotnmittee as they now stood, there was not sufficient ground for directly rroceetling to legislate upon the sub ject. But there was enough on those minutes to. call for fulther inquiry. 'the argument -0f the Honourable Baronet (Sir Francis Burdett) teas, that, because in a case ten years ago the House had refused to institute a general in quiry into abuses of this nature, that. therefore iu the present case no inquiry should he made ; that because the House had 'ejected such a proposal so many years ago, therefore it should 110 W re fuse to vindicate its honour. But the Hon. Baronet went farther. He said that Mr. Swann hart dtme no more than was done by every Member in the House, and might sdy to every man now present, innicqo nomine de to Muhl narratur. This wai, a gross calumny against the House.—(Hear; hear, hear !)—lt was utterly false.—(Hear, hear, hear !)—The Honourable Baronet might speak for himself, for he best knew how far his own case resembled that of Mi. Swann.—(Loud cheering.)—But to say that every Member in the House had been guilty of such practices was a calumny. As tar as regarded himself, - he must say, it wag wiioily false.—(Muchr cheering.)— And looking round on both sales of the House he saw many Hon. Members tor whom he would venture to say, that the assertion as against them was calumnious and false.—(Cheering ) Sir F. BIIRDF.TT.—" i! , e Hon. Gentleman who just at (town says. that I accused every Member in the 11nn4e of Corruption. That was nut my state ment.' I said, thrt every Member for a rotien Borough Ivid been as guilty as Mr. Swann.—(No, no, from ail sides of the House.)---If . the Hon. Member, or any otter, says that I made a diffe rent' staternent, I sty he says what is false." Mr: WyNN—" I certainly did understand most distinctly that the Hon. Baronet made the charge generally against all the Members of the House." —(Yes; yes; from all sides of the House, and cheering.) Mr. V. BLAK PH;(1 a few words in 60 kw a tone as to be inaudible in the.gallery. Mr. CALVERT said, that as the lion. Baronet (Sir F.But(kit) had confirmed his charge as against Boroughs, he must say, if be included the Borough of Southwark, tire charge was false.—(Hear, .hear !) •• • • • Sir F. BURDRTT said, after his former disa yowal, it was hard to be thui petsonally called :upon. lie allirirabii - trrirratrirßorougbs. Sir R. WiLsosr rose with much' Warnith and.ex ,clained;iliat if anything had been said which could be construed into in imputation against the-Bo rough of Southwark, he (Sir It. Wilson) would not have stiffered it to pass.—(Lond laughter ! ) He wished for a general_ Reform, but - could not . agree to pass over so flagrant an instance as the Borough of Penryn, though a general measure Hcvold not now be carried. Sir C. BURRELL said be would agree to fix the time for issuing the writ to a fortnight. The CRANCELLOII Of theERCHEQUER said, that as the lion. Baronet (Sir C. Burrell) had agreed to make the period or delay only a fortnight in stead of kmonth, it entirely obviated his objec tion, to the motion. The ;notion of Sir C. BURRELL was then agreed to. Sir C. BURREI.L then moved—" That a Corn. mittee be, appointed to enquire into certain cur.' rupt practices alleged to exist previous to, and at the late election for the Borough of Penryn." Mr, BatiFis wished to know if a Select COin- . mittee was intended.. 'He. hoped the motion %void(' not .now he pressed, but that the debate would be adjourned to an early day. But if the motion was now pressed upon the House, he must dissent, and take the sense of the House upon it, He moved, as an amendment, that the debate be postponed till Wednesday. Lord C. Cnuttcumt. protested against any ad journment of the debate on this motion. Mr. F. DOUGLAS wished the House to decide ttpon the motion immediately. Mr. TIERNEY said he would be glad to hear any good reason for adjourning the debate. There were only two modes by which the inquiry could be made, by a Select Committee, or a Committee of the whole House. He was for the latter mode. Mr. BANKES said, there were four modes—the two mentioned by the Right Honourable Gentle man, and two others, namely, to have a Bill brought in at once for the disfranchisement of the Borough and to int todoce the inquiry on i:, or to have anfinquiry at , the liar. He had no purpose to serve by wishing the adjournment of the de bate further than that he wished to consider the subject deliberately. Mr. TIERNEY explained. A!tyr a few words from Mr. SrIITH (of Cam. ,!A.idge), Sir J. MACKINTOSH, and Mr. WYNN, the debate was &Mourned to Wednesday. O;t the ;notion of Mr. WYNN the further con ' sideration of the Report of the Committer: on the renryn blectiOn ira3 postponed tdi LUIS WV se U• night. POOR LAWS. Mr. S. BOUfiNP. ro‘e to wove that the Poor Laws' Amendment Bi!I he re-committed. .lie was desirous that no tune should'be lost in pro ceeding with the Bill, and he (lid tibt anticipate any delay, as it contained no enactment which had not been already agreed to by both gouses of Parliament. Ile hoped that it would be passed in time to have it in operation before Easter. The House then resolved itcelt into a Commit tee On the Bill, in which the varions clauses were agreed to, aher a temp words from Mr. Ommanney, Mr. S. Boorne, Sir C. Mood:, Mr. T. L. IVel lesley, Mr. Hurst, Mr. N. Calvert, Mr. Palmer, Alderunin Wood, Mr. Willia , ms, .Mr Court e• nay, and Mr. Prwheroe. Mr. WAITHMAN also wished the clause to be modified. . The SOLACITOR•GENEIIAL defended it. A division then took place. For the Clause 91 For tl:c Anieuthu i ent Majority for the original clause The House then resumed, and the Report %vas ordered to be received to-morrow. ARNIY ESTINI/VITS. On the motion of Lord PAL,msasTON, the I-louse resolved itself into a Committee of Supplies. Lord I'ALMERSTON had no intention of leading the [louse into H discussion at so late an hour.— (A quarter past eleven.)-1-le should only move the numbers of the Army as a ground toe bring ing in the Mutiny Bill, the Act of last year being on the eve of expiring. The discoNsion ou the numbers themselves Might come on when the Hol.se should 'have to vote the• sums necessary to maintain them. He wished, therefore, to impress upon Honourable Members that they would not be bound, by agreeing to the pre sent Resolution, to the exact number whic, it mentioned, but would remain free at a in ure period to propose any diminution which they might think prover. Ile then movect.that a force not exceeding 80,841 men, 12,276 of whom would .4e for Ireland, be granted to his Majesty, exclu sively of the men employed in the Mediterranean and the East Indies, for the service of the present year. The Resolution was agreed to, and the House having resumed, the Report was ordered to be received on Wednesday. BALANCES OF PUBLIC MONEY. On the motion of the CHANCRLLOR Of the EXCHEQUER, the House resolved itself into a Com mittee ou the Exchequer Consolidation Act. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, at so la'e an hour, would do no more than give an idea of the subject which he wished to submit to the consideration of the Committee. Honourable Members were aware, that according to present practice, the produce of the Consolidated Fond, which was accumulating in the Exchequer, was not by law applicable to ,the public service.— Thus`a large sum of money was locked itp, which could only he used at. the close of the quarter. The interest upon it was entirely lost to the public, and fell Into the hands of the Bank of England, a pt act ice which was authorised by law. He should now propose that the Treasury be empowered to Apply to the public service, out of the growing pro duce of the Consolidated Fund, a sum not exceed:ng Six millions ; replacing,' in its stead, Exchequer Bills as a security, to be made good at the close of the quarter, out of the fonds granted for the services of the year. Mr. Perceval had proposed a similar measure in 1808 to the extent of , five millions, hut had afterwards preferred closing with the Bank for an advance of three millions, without interest. In Ireland, however, the pi ac lice had been to apply the growing produce of the , Consolidated Fund to the service of the year, rak ing care at the same time to give the same seconi- , ties which he should propose. The agreement entered into by Mr. Perceval with the Bank ex , pired on the sth of April 1815, but had since been prolong,ed till 1817. The balances in Mr. Perce val's time were very considerable, and might amount to eleven or twelve millions. They had now been much reduced, and a large sum was taken from them for the payments of the Sinking Fund, which, instead of taking place in one gross sum at the beginning of each quarter, were now issued gradually. The balances were now about as low as it was possible they could be in a state of -peace: They did not amount to more, and sometimes to less, than ten days' provision for the public service. It was scarcely practicable to re duce them lower; but of course the 'Finance Com mittee would turn its setions attention to the sub ject. On the expiration of the last arrangement a question had arisen r..hether the Bank would-coo sent to a measure of the present kind. Now he was happy to state, the Bank were willing to give their consent. But although be should propose to issue six millions every quarter, they would be subject to make up any deficiencies which might have previously existed. As there were arrears to the amount 'of 3,300,0001. the six millions of the present qUarter would only operate to the extent of 2,700,0091. for the good of the public. He should also propose a clause to limit the du ration of this new arrangement to the sth July, 1820 ; but felt convinced that the House, having perceived its 'advantages, would be of opinion that it should be renewed. He then moved the following Itesolotion:-•— • " That it is the opinion . of this Committee tjli“. it is expedient the grow ing produce of the Consolidated Fund in Great Britain be made applicable it; each quarter, to an amount •not exceeding six millions on the whole 'at any time, to such services as shall be voted by Parliament, until the same be required for the ser vices for which it is appropriated." Mr. MABERLY complained thaLthe 9th of March had arrived before any thing had been done to explain and settle the finances of the year. The six millions mentioned by the Bight Hon. Gen tleman as being partly intended to cover arrears, were now sunk to 2,700,0001. which would not he sufficient by 300,0001. to repay the three mil lions due to the Batik. The current expenditure of tine country was twenty millions, and the amount of the Unfunded Debt forty-eight.—lf the furrier were divided by twelve, the monthly expenditure would be found to amount to about 1,700,000/. To meet this, there was a total in regular taxes of not more than seven millions. If the monthly 1,700,0001. were multiplied by pear to be 5;100,0001., and on!), 4,000,0001. 'of Ways and Means to cover it,.leaving a deficiency (if 1,100 0001. on the April quarter. He had Made those statements-to show that the Country might be deprived of money altogether for the ensuing quarter, for the EXehequer Bills might then he paid in on account of the Revenue: If it were sail they would not, then the Right Hon. Gentleman must raise the interest on them, for they were already at a considerable discount, and would of course be paid in if it continued to in crease. Where, in that case, should we find funds to meet the expenditnre from April to July, and the teller quarters ? With adt ficiency in out re venue nearly equal to the Sinking Fund, what would be our situation but` a state of bankruptcy if war or a rumour of war should arise—if tits affairs Of France did not subside, and anew revo lution took place in that country ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER acquitted the Hon. Gentleman of an intention to mistate any part of this important subject. He was only Mistaken. He had laid it down that the provision fur halt the year must he exhausted in April. He was not aware that half a quarter bad elapsed before any of the supplies granted for the present year had been applied. The Malt Tax had been voted in January, and the first application of its prodoCe had taken place about the middle of February. Tittle was no mystery in this ; and it was well known that the set vices had been defrayed out of 'ninnies temaining front the last year. The public grants hat not commenced to he issued in 1818, till the beginning of March, or the end of February. it was not theretwe astonishing, that they should have lasted nearly to the present time. As to 'the unfunded debt, it might amount, to get her with the part for Ireland, • to forty-eight millions, as the Honourable Gentleman had stated. But lie , ought not to have forgotten th a t sixteen millions of it had last year been paid oil and funded, He also feared that the Exchequer Bilk might be paid itt on account of the revenue. Put that hail not been the case even during the last war, ts hen the discount noon them was much greater than at present. Very few had then been paid into the Revenue. As to the period when be should sub mit to the House a plan for a general provision , for the service of the year, it would be when the question of the Bank should have been hilly inves tigated, and the Report of the Committee should. be in tlie possession of the House. Till then he should preserve the same silence respecting his financial arrangements:for the year which lie had hitherto maintained, It seldom happened that a General Budget was proposed before Easter. At • what period he should bring it forward.this year, must depend on circumstances which he could not foresee, but tsreially on the time at which the Report of the Bank Committee' would be pro duced. With respect o his becoming short o f money, the Hon. Gentleman need entertain no fear that he should not look forward so as to pre vent his being entangled in difficulties of that nit. ture.—(A laugh.) Mr. MAuerteEv contended, that as the -Exche quer Bills had been issued at a premium of 205., and were now at a discount of 25,, they had, in, fact, fallen 225. Mr. TIERNint,. in a speech of considerable ex tent, thanked the Honourable Geo(lenity) (Mr. Maherley) for'bringing forward a statement which had not been answered. if the Exchequer Bills had partly recovered from their late fall, and were now only at a discount of 2s , it was in expectation of a flourishing speech front the Right Honoura'rle Gentleman opposite. But if, alter the sth of April next, their holders were of opinion that they would continue to fall, they would of course throw them hack upon Govern meot, and the State might be aground for money, for it could only be gor - from the Bank. But if the Right Hon. Gentleman would not ensue to Parliament for it, before the Committee bad made its Report, it would be still more indecent for the Bank to aid bins before that Report had made its appearance. The Chancellor of the Exchequer, whatever ignorance he might pre tend, knew perfectly well at this very Ines meltt whether he could raise the supplies of the year by funding or by'a loan. It was disgraceful for him and the country to prolong this state of indecision, and thus to throw the door wide open to all kinds of speculations in the funds. He then contended that instead of making the six millions, which formed the ground of the present measure. applicable to the public service, their interest was the only advlntage to be derived from the pro posed arrangement. And would it be possible to go on with a sinking fund of 14 millions and it half, when not less that 13 or 14 millions must be borrowed every year to support it The con sequence of such a system was, to make the wary prey on the unwary. He complained of the delay in proposing the Budget. The Right Hon. Gen demon would say nothing till he could make a grand display. But he would tell that Right Hon. Gentleman that he would make no grand display this year, for he was now fully understood. All that was required of him was to state the real case to. the country, to look its difficulties boldly in the face, and to point out their remedy Not that he (Mr. 'F.) had any to propose. Mr. HustussoN contended that it was impos sible for his Right Hon. Friend, pending the pre.- sent Secret Inquiry, to propose any measure of Finance, as it would expose him to questions which he could not answer. Before the Report of the Bank Committee, no arrangement could be made that would prove beneficial to the public. But when that Report should come, then would. the hou se be called upon, to look the diffi culties of the country in the face, to revise the whole of her financial system, and to apply the best remedies for reducing her debt, and increas ing her revenue. Mr. TIE.RNEY rejoiced at the prospect thus opened by the Hon. Gentleman. He bow consi dered Governmeot pledged to that grand and im pOrtant investigation. Mr. ilustussoN denied having spoken Irons authority. After a few desultory observations from Mr. Grenfell, 'Mr. Maherley, and Mr. Protheroe, iii reply to which the Chancellor of the Exchequer stated, that the !ix miilions would not be loith coming- at once at the beginning of the quarter,