The Sun. — London, England, 1841-03-02 00:00:00

_E V ENING ED ETION. mates for the presec.t year, because that must form the subject of a calculation upon the amount of the naval three e i.ich might be required under the circumstances ltr whieh the country alight be placed. He felt it im possible to enter upon this subject in the absence of the Minister of the, Crown, whose duty it was to furnish them with information. He must confess that when he was called upon to vote 43,000 men for the naval ser vice of the country, be felt some surprise that the Se cretary of State for Foreign Affairs was not present to our an explanation on the subject to the Committee. Ile felt also another difficulty, the Hon. Member for Kilkenny having made a motion for the production of II most important document, and without it he felt it impossible to form a very correct estimate as to whether arid amount of force called for by the Right Hon. Gentleman was adequate to the service of the country or not. He wished also to call their attention to the circumstance of the under-estimates of former years. That was a paint which the House should look at with great caution at all times, because, if they brought fur ward . the supplemental estimates, they lost the advan tage of that House having control over the expenditure.' It Was a different thing to refuse their assent to the es timate, in which the whole policy of the country might be called into question, and to refuse the payment of an expense already incurred. lie was willing to admit that it was impossible to estimate every contingency that might accrue in the naval service. ( Hear.) The whole of the naval votes had been, up to last )'ear, suffic eat to cover the entire of the cxp n;es. Ho confeseedthat lie was not satisfied with the explanation which had been given by the Right lion. Gentleman the Secretary for the Admiraity, both with regard to the deficiency of the year 1839, and the deficiency for the year 1810. In the first place, he (Sir G. C was disposed to think that the deficiency of 1839 was considerably higher than the sums shown to be taken. The balance stated was °9,600/., for which the vote was now taken ; but the balance of the former year remained unexplained, especially upon the grounds stated to the Admiralty, namely, that the accounts be longing properly to the year 1839 fur the Cape of Good Hope and Trincomalee had not been received. One of the ways in which the deficiency was sought to be made up was by making a demand on the Treasury for the expenses incurred by the insurrection in Canada. Now, he wished to know on what grounds the naval department trade such claims? Tue first item in these c!ahne was for wages of sea men and marines.. He was desirous of knowing for what seamen and marines these demands were made? The deficiency in the estimates for the year 1839 Wag, instead of being 26,6001. as the vote now place) in the Chairman's hands showed, really above 70,000/. That was a very important deficiency, and one for which, he confessed, the Right Hon. Gaetlernan the Secretary for the Admiralty had not assigned any suf ficient reason. There was er reale inconvenience in coming forward at sa icus times and voting certain sums for the nary at one period, and certain sums at another period. To couple the Naval to the Supple meatary Estitea'es was the way t 3 make a great de ficiency he the es . .iireites for the present year. Tee only ex4mation that could be offered by the Naval D pertinent for bringing them forward in this way was, that the reason for some of tile estimates could not hey,: bean foreseer. But he said they must have known it, or, at least, that they ought to have known it—(" Hear, hear," from Colonel Sibthorp, and laughter)—and to have seen that the Supplemen tal Estimates they called upon the House to vote ware perfectly adequate to the demands of the service. Ile (Sir G. Cierk) took occasion when the Clianc .11er of the Fecchever brought forward his budget on the 15th of May last, to call his attention to the excess of expenditure of tea navy at that period, mad to show hies !het by the account he had laid upon the table of the House, it ameaxeil that the naval de r artment b tween the ht of Apr 1 1839 and lit of April 1840 bad received 300,000/. snore than the sum voted for the services of tea years by the House, and he had asked him (the Chanceller of the Exchequer) for some explanation, which, however, was not ghee. He (Sir G. Cherk) hal stated that the consequence must be that seine must have been taken from the estimates voted for the current year to provide for the excess of foririor . ye.are, and that the Right Honourable Gentleman would find the sums fur the present ear would not be suflicieot, and that there would be a very largo deficierecy of revenue as compared with the expenditure. lie had moved on the 15th of that month for an account which showed how that money bad been provided. It appeared that in April 1839, there remained a hill ince of the votes of the former year of no less than 460,204/., tl'e whale of which sum was no doubt required to discharge r xpenses previously incurred, and properly belonging to the year in which tie motley was voted. The ,nayal department had required for their expenses 300,0001. more than had been voted for the purpose. 'Tr e Admiralty seems to have kept the Treasury in the dark as to the sum they would require, which he thought th y had no right to do ; or ease the Chancellor ut the Exchequer was wron g i n no t b r i ng i ng un d er th e notice of the House the increased expenditure of the navy. It appeared to him that the various departments of . the State acted a; if they were independent of each ether, and that no two were aware of another's procce.lings. —(Hear, hca-.) There had been a gross blunder in the preparation of the e tenatas of lest year. The number of men required tr complete the compleftwht of the ships was 26,000, while the Admiralty proposed a vote for 24,000 only. The Noble Lord the Secre tary for the Colonies had tell them on that occasion, that he did rot thief( any increased number of seamen would be required in consequence of the situation in which the country was p'aced. He (S;r G. Clerk) had been glad at the time to have heard that announce- ment, but he found the House had been misled by it. The Noble Lord must himself' have known that France had then refused to be a party to the settlemeet of the Eastern Question. When the supplementary estimates had been brought forwa-d, the Noble Lord, on being asked whether the Government, intended to send a reinforcement to the Mediterranean, answered that they did cot, aid that we were not to have more ships in July than an Jarstelry. A few weeks after, however, large vessel, the Calcutta, was commissioned for the Mediterraneae. lie thought therefore he was justified in saying that if the Noble Lord, the Secretary for the ,Co'onies, had been in communication with the Noble Lord, the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, it would have been impossible for him to make the statement which he had made.—(Hoer, hear.) With regard to tire vote for 161,5001., the Right Hon. Gentleman, the Secre tary to the Admiralty, had said that if they had moved for it last year, they might have excited the suspicion of foreign Powers. lie draught, however, that if they ac cepted such a justification they would be laying down a very dangerous precedent. The Government might, in that case, bring forward low estimates, and, alter expenses had been incurred, they would have no power to refuse the payment of than.--(Hear, hear, hear.) He thought that was a dangerous principle, af fecting one of the great privileges of that House, namely, the power of maintaining a control over the Exchequer. He did not t'iink the Right lion. Geatle.nan's explanation on that sub jet had been. satisfactory. The stain required might be aka an ottnate, but it was in reality a vote for a sum of money to snake good the deficiency of last year It appeared on the face of the estimates that they had 28,700 men, whit: there- had beea ly 0 7 iro A great increase would a m pp o e uateh tool h o o n n 7 - ob b - e ,'‘: m s . 'd ° :i n d. our naval force in the Howe and Britantiia had been seet Co t th e e r, N t l vh r t the nean. But sure ly e vessels ought at that tinie"t.otteharvia been at full comp '!}rent, and they wile then have had 28,000 inc n. The Let was the Admiralty and the Government were afraid of the oppositio n of the Hoe. Member for Kilkenny—(Cheers) —who always objected to every irlreased expenditure. Th e y oug h t to have laid the circumstances fu lly before the H ouse at the time of moving the supplemental estimates of last y ear , but they had then kept out o f sight a great part o f t h e expenditure which had been incurred. He thought they must also have kept the Ch ancellor of the Exchequerin the dark. He did not think tire sum . ; now asked would be sufficient to cover the outstanding demn from ds w the l i night present existed. He should like to know Hon. Scwrettiry to the Treasury why the accounts moved H a rwich had for by 'his Hen. Friend the Member for not yet been laid on the table ; that was a most im portant elemenfin discussing these estimates. Mr. R. GORDON.—Th e returns from which th e account is to be made out have not yet been received. Sir GEORGE CLERK would then ask why the Paper for which the Hon. Secretary had himself moved on the'3d February, a Return of the Debt of the Navy, bad not yet been laid before the House ? He would frankly admit that in former times but little interest had been felt in that document, but it was now one of a most important character, and ho hoped no time would be lost in laying it upon the table. He did not know on what ground they were called upon to make up this deficiency. From the accounts laid on the table, it ap peared that on the 7th January there was a sum of 1,537,5164 to the credit of the Admiralty. Now the Hon. Secretary to the Admiralty was bound to show why that sum had not been sufficient to cover the navy expenses that were likely to be incurred. That it would probably be insufficient he wou ld admit, more particularly when he considered the large amount of ' wages due, bat they ought to have the amount before them r .in order to enable them to form a judgmeat on the subject ; and they ought to have further information before being cal'ed on to vote those sums. He did not offer any opposition to 'the large amount of estimates for the present year, but he only asked to know the reason seby .he was called upon to vote the deficiencies which aught to have been provided for last year. lie hoped they should not see in the Navy Estimates what had 111) lon g bean objected to in the Ordnance Estimates, a large and accumulating sum left unprovided for from year to year. The House should watch narrowly to prevent this. They wag vonitld find th a t th ere w as a large amount due f or seamen ' s be provid e d f or when the shp es, the full am ount h ad been v which would have to l otsed came hom e . L a st year balance sh ee t, b ut that vote mus,tais appeared from the tinder some oth er h ea d , i nstead of bein g aPproprit eel t the payment of wages when the ships should come home. It swig clear, therefore, that any surplus that might be required to pay off the ships, would increase the diffl• culties of the Admiralty. It might be possible that there was some motive to induce the Admiralty to keep back a portion of the expenditure of the last year ; there might be some motive operating on the minds of her Majesty's Ministers which induced them to call upon the House to vote sums, large though they were, which would not be adequate for the purpose for which they were intended ; they had in fact drawn up such esti mates as they thought they should be able to carry without incurring the 'severe opposition of the Hon. Member for Kilkenny.—(Hear, hear.) He thought he had made out a prima facie case against the Admi ralty, of attempting to call upon the• House to make good those deficiencies without further information. If te Government failed in giving a satisfactery answer to the Committee, he should move that the two votes to which he had allud )1 should be postponed till further information was given. Lord J. RUSSELL said, that the Right Hon. Baronet had so mixed up several questions together as to render it difficult to grapple with his statements. He was not gain; to answer the Hon. Gentleman with re gard to those parts of his speech which related to the mode of keeping the accounis of the navy. His Hon. Friend the Secretary for the Admiralty, had stated the grounds upon which he asked for the balance of 29,6941. as he could add nothing to what his Hon. Friend had stated on that subject. The Hon. Gen tleman, however, had gone on to speak of the amount of the balance which they proposed to take to make up the expenditure, and he had not been sa-istied with taking that amount, but he had thought proper to discover that the reason why her Majesty's Ministers had adopted the course they had dote was because they were afraid of the opposition of the Hon. Member for Kilkenny. Now with respect to that supposition the Hon. Gentleman was completely mistaken ; it certainly was something like the course adopted by a former Lord of the Admiralty in 1835, who had asked for estimates less than was necessary for the services of the year, but such were not the motives which actuated her Majesty's present Government. The Hon. Gentleman had stated very truly, that at the time the estimates were brought forward cast y ear the Go vernment did not ask the whole amount required for the ships iu commission, and the reason of that was, be cause some of the ships were on their return home, and it might not be necessary to fit out other ships ; that was the real case, and not as the Right Hon. Gentleman had supposed. At that time it was not supposed there would be a separation among the Great Powers of Eu rope, but in July the question was very much altered. Iu that month her Majesty's Government had agreed with certain great Powers of Europe to enter into a con vention for the purpose of settling tlre affairs of the East ; one of the Greet Powers, however, was not a party, but at the same time it was at first doubtful whether that Great Power would think it necessary to arm on account of its being separated from the ether Gnat Powers. Unfortunately, and before the prorogation of Parliament, it appeared that the French Government were determined to increase their navy, and it therefore became necessary for her Majesty's Government to consider whether they should immediately augment the forces, or suspend it t It further proceedings were taken. His impression was—and that impression was generally shared by the Government—that if at a time when there was great exasperation in France, when there was an undue feeling of resentment because this country had separated from France upon the. Eastern question, and the utmost violence was displayed both in the press aid generally throughout France in speaking of the con d uct of England—if at such a time th e y had come down to propose to Pail :tercet, without being certain that it would be required, a considerable augmentation of force, they could not have asked for it without stating serious reasons for so doiug, and there might have been urged against the conduct of Government the hostile lingua ° and the alienated feelings of France. Why, if they had done so, he did nut doubt that they should have obtained the consent of the House to the necessary augmentation of force. He did not doubt that the Hon. Member for Kilkenny, if he had chosen to divide the House, would has e been in a small minority upon that occasion ; but what he did doubt was, whether if they had come down with such a case to ask for a con siderable augmentation of force, it would not have tended to increase and influence the exasperation then prevailing in France, and whether the increase of armament would not have led to hostilities between the two countries. For these reasons they did not propose any increase of force ; and it was not till after the prorogation of Parliament, when it clearly appeared that then e was a positive increase taking place in the French force, and an active equipment of ships going forward, that ner Majesty's Government thought it ne cessary to add to the naval force of this country. The Hon. Gentleman had said that there was a mistake in the accounts in rel e r ence to t h e t i me when the increase I was made. The fact was, that the amount of force in I the early part of the year had been so far below the amount which was voted, that the amount of money ; voted for the number of men kept up in the early part of the year was sufficient for the payment of the force kept up in the latter end of the year, and, therefore, as regards the question of nimeey—it was different as re gards the question of men—but as regards the question I of money, the wages proposed for there three months Wilj sufficient to pay for the increased augmentetier. Ile did not pretend to deny that in old-nary cases, and as a question of general policy, the G.rvernmei t would not be justified in making such an increase without the consent of Parliament. He agreed with the Hon. Gentleman opp o sit e , w h o was formerly so able and convincing in exposing the defects, the negli gence, and the irregularity of the Admirdty which preceded his coming into office, as to the constitutional rule to be observed in such cases. But the main—the real question which the Government had to consider was, bow they might best preserve the peace of Eu rope. Whether they should, or should not, make them selves responsible for the excess of 161,000/., was quite a secondary consideration. They wished to prevent the assembling of seamen on the one side, and the House of Commons of England on the other, from entertaining this question in a spirit which might pos sibly have led to hostilities, and in pursuing this object they had not shrunk from the responsibility of having to ask Parliament for a sum of money which had not been regularly voted. He (Lord John Russell) was happy to say that in the main object they had suce ed• ed.—( Hear.) At that time there remained no d,ffer ence between France and England with respect to Mehemet Ali.—(Hear, hear.) That question, by the avowal of all parties, was entinly at an end, and there fore they had the satisfaction of knowing that, although their course was open to objection, it had enal 1-d them to avoid a collision with any of the other Powers of Europe. He would not pretend to answer the Hon. Gentleman upon the various topics which he ha , ' gone through, and with which long prac tice had made him intimeeely acquaintel, but he had tirought it necessary to make these remarks in explana tion of the course which had been pursued. Mr. HUME said he was glad that the Noble Lord admitted the extraordinary nature of the proceedings. The Noble Lord considered that be was warranted by the peculiar circumstances in which the country was pl iced, in taking upon hims-lf that responsibility. He differed entirely from the Noble Lord on that point, and he would state to the House the grounds on which he did so. The Noble Lord had stated that by means of taking upon themselves this responsibi lity the Government had maintained the peace of Europe. He (Mr. Hume) denied that altogether. He contended that they had disturbed the peace of Europe. Europe was in perfect peace at the time when the Noble Lord entered int) that convention of the 15th of July ; there was not the least sign of a dis turbance The French had been increasing the'r fleet for many leers, but the object of that was to maintain that position which was consistent with their station amongst the Powers of Europe. But what did the Noble Lord say? He said—he (Mr. H.) supposed the Noble Lord referred to the Cabinet —they had main tained the peace of Europe at an expense of 1 60,0001. mWi lion,, go i o Ge nd consequence d l o of for the Noble the present Lord's y ear pzey w , was and ten millions would not cover the expenses of that rash a far. The Government had no right to enrol more rn than were voted by the H ouse , w i t h out its consent, and without such grounds as would appear t o th e country satis factory. Was there anything threateni ng t h e peace of England or of her Colonies, er of any part of the British Empire? Nothing whatever. It was an intermeddlirg in the affair of the Turkish Empire, under the plea of ma i n . disturbances and the wea k that eees of ed ien for th ? io v b e a t d e objected to it. He k new Hume) had warned the Nobl e L or d Empire. He (Mr. Hume)_and w had ingi ts perpetuatedintegrity. ascall for an additional nu plans fh again and again in t m h b e er m o on f t s b ea o m fJ e u n ly w , his to intermoddle in the affair s what the of Noble Lerd were, and he knewanxiety of the East, and thet if he had g et the vote it would enable him to embroil himself. The House, howeve - , differed with him (Mr. Hume) and the vote was passed. In July that the treaty had been it had come to his knowledge e signed, and believing that it would involve the country in war, he had asked the Noble Lord to sate if thet were so. The /louse would recoileA s aris er. lie could get nothing d: finite, but it amounted to a Germ •were Leading cut troops, and he was informed that he was mistaken in his informa- 1 tien—a general aeswer.—(A laugh ) Now , it t arried (Hear, hear.) He asked they out that he had hem correctly informed. Did the Noble Lord suppose that his conduct at that time would be other wise than offeesice to France, and risk the loss of the friendship and alliance of tat country ? He was anxious to have the documents before him, because he thought they would make out a clear case of neglect. The reel truth was that the Noble Lord and the Cabinet knew well that they had determined on hostilities, every dock-yard was full, and mu,ket: and seamen were sending out to Eft- up disaffection and rehel lion in the Best, and give countenance to the interference havethey hbaedeodeatlleorwmeindedtoon of the B r iti s h Government. On the 24th of July when separate sit ie '' withoutthe Ho that subject. Th e Ri ght Hon. G• i u n s f e or s m h a o t u i l o d n n o o n Gentleman spoke of his (Mr. H.'s) opposition, but he saw ver well it bad but o" little effect. If Hon. M embers on the ' y r side supported him it might have some effect, but when t lie received sup port from neithcr, what hope, what chance was there, but THE SUN, LONDON, TITP,SDA.V,MARCII_2, 184 i. to be laughed at ? He believed the Government were afraid of meeting the House of Commons, and lotting the public know that the peace of Europe was a b out to disturbed through the!: rete:fererce. &Ai at they were, they were not bold enough to state their case to the. c e ue_ try at that time. Once Fedi:ln:cm was separated, whet check was there that they might not hare earelled 50,000 men more than there were voted; the principle was the same, and they actually did enrol 2,545 mea more than were voted. The Noble Lord said they would take the responsiblity, but he (Mr. H.) said, make out the case first. He wished to see all the correspondence between this Goverment and France, and he was satisfied it would fail to make out their case. The vote now before them was contrary to the usual practice of Perliament, and indeed at the time no one supposed that such a step would be taken without calling Parliament together. He felt himself jus tified, therefore, in moving that the vote be postponed until they had the corresponderce on the table—if the case vse re mode out then let the vote be agreed to, and if not, let it be rejected. Until that was done he hoped that House would not allow a vote incurred in such a way to pass. They were now called on to support an armed navy of 41,000 men; that was an enormous establishment A few yeer; ago the establishment for the navy amounte I to 24,000 and 25,000 men, and the utmost number at any time at the period to alfeh he alluded was 26,000 men, and those establish ments were considered veil large ; what then must Ho nourable Members think of such an armament as 41,000 men ? Honourable Members ought net, he insisted, to support a vote for so enormous an establishment without some explanation being given for its existence. Parlia ment had now sat five weeks, and there was he contended sufficient time during that period to make such arrange ments as would enable the Noble. Lori ( Lord John Rus sell) to give the required explanation. He would there fore move that the progress of the vote be postponed until they should have laid on the t,b!e of the House the cor. respondence which would enable Hon. Members to judge how far Government was warranted in the responsibility which they had taken upon themselves. Mr. C. WOOD said that the question he underetood to be before the House was a vete of 29,0001. to make up the deficiency in the accounts up to the 31st of April 1841. The Honourable Member for Kilkenny had, he appre• headed, mistaken the immediate subject under discuse.on. Sir J. GRAHAM said it was desirable that they should keep the vote of 29,0001. perfectly distinct from that of 161,0001. He vtiated to know why it war th.t when the supplemental estimate was proposed list Session of Par. liareent —whee the balance of 29,0001. was ascertained— that balance was not brought under the cogn . zance of the House—why it was postponed ? Mr. MORE O'FERRALL coneurre I in what had fallen from the Hon. Baronet opposite (Sir J. Graham) a 3 t i the necessity of keeping the question of the 29,000/. separate from that of the 161,000/. With respect to the observations of the Right Hon. Member for Stamford (Sir George Clerk) he (Mr. M. O'Ferrall) thought that the Right Hen. Baronet would have been the la-t Member in that House to speak in such a strain. The Right Honourable Member for Stamford had for merly expressed opinions cf quite an opposite tee dency, ar,d stated that when there was a pi essure cf the public business, it was next to an impossibility to keep within the strict limits according to which the estimates had been fixed. The Right Hon. Gentleman had asked why was not the propo s al regar di ng t h is excess made in July last; he must know perfectly well that that was totally impossi ble ; be must he aware that the accounts were made up to the 31st of March, but not closed till Nosembe: ; the time intervening being reserved for the receipt of the ac counts from the Cape of Good Hope, and the ether colo nies. Those accounts from the aolonies had not been re ceived till September 1840, end therefore the excess could not possibly be laid before the Parliament in July. When the accounts were closed in November, it was then fur the first titre that the excess of 29,0001. was learned. The Right Hon. Baronet when in office took far elifferent views from those to which lie now gave utterance; but then to some Honourable Members the difficulties which were so ob vious when in office completely vani.hed from their view when they were out of office.--( Hear, beer.) The Hon. Gentleman thee real an extract from a speech cf the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir James Graham) and proceeded. The experience of the Right Hen. Ba ronet made him viol .te his principle within twelve months after he had laid it down under no less than thirteen heads cf expenci:ure.—(Cheers.) He (Mr. M. °Terrell) asked, then, how it was possible to say, in a year like the last, airy naval accounts should not exceed the amount voted by 29,0001. ?—(flear, hear.) With regard to the sum of 5,000/, in the present balance-sheet, the Right Hon. Gentleman had omitted to look at the note in the balance-sheet in his hand, or be would have seen that the object of the Government could re t have teen con cealmeet With regard to 42,000/. for Canade, it was mentioned in the sheet as the sum appropriated to the nasal expenditure of that country, and if the Right Hon. Gentleman would look to the balance sheet of 1 rst year he would find it accounted for, under every head of expenditure ; 15,000/. was on account of service on the Sir JAMES GRAHAM sr id he was bound to say he thought the answer of the ll'g,ht Hon. Gentleman (Mr. M. O'Firrall) was satisfactory.—( Hear, hear.) lie ( Sir J. Graham) certainly did attach geieat Importance to the fact that when the estimates exceeded the amount voted Parliament should receive a season for it. To that prin ciple he had adhered in 1831, and he still adhered to it. He admi ted that, with the greatest care, it was impossi. ble to frame the estimates exactly, and so as they should not be exceeded, but the principle was, that whoa this excess occurred, Pail:a-tient should be iufirmed of it. He bad forgotten the fact, but after what had been state 4, was ready to admit that November was by himself considered as the period at which the accounts should be made up.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. C. WOOD, quite rgreed wiii all that had fallen from the Right HAI. Baronet (Sir James Graham), as to the impossibility of extreme accuracy in framing the eati m nes. With regard to tl , e service on the Lakes in the spring of 1839, when he held the situation now held by his Right Hoe. Fr lend. af er the estimates were framed, is coi.;equence of the dangerJu3 state of the frontiers, the Secretary for the Colonies had intimated the necessity of increasing our naval establishment on the Lakes, and I e (Mr. C. Wood) had stated that he must move supple. mental estimates for the purpose of defraying that expe .- diture, or come to that vote cf credit passed in 1833, for the purpose of defraying the expenditure of the insurrec tion in Canada. He thought the statement of the Hon. Gentleman satisfaetori!y accounted for the manner in which the excess of expenditure had arisen.—( Hear.) Mr. HUME said that he would not oppose the vote, as the paper in his hands gave a satisfactory account of the expenditure.—( Hear.) After a few observations from Sir G. CLERK, the vote was agreed to. On the vote being proposed that 161,500/. be grareed to defray tie excess of the expenditure above the grant for the yeer endii:g 31st March, 1841, Sir R. PEEL. said that the Noble Lord opposite had stated, in justification of this excess, that the state of irri tation in which France was at the time, rendered it more expedieet for the Government to undertake the expense upm their own responsibility than to come to Parliament for a grant, as the latter proceeding would have tended to alarm that power, and to endanger our pacific relations. The Noble Lord had said, however, that the irritation had sub,i led, and that there was no longer any apprehension of hostilities being provoked between the two countries. New be (Sir R. Peel) wi•hed to know whether the Noble Lord was rightly understood to mean that a friendly un derstanding was established with France, or merely that the expulsion of :Mehemet Ali from Stria had given so different a character to the Eastern question, that a rup ture on that subject was not to be apprehended ? Lord PALMERSTON said that his Noble Friend re ferred at the time to the irritation displayed in the speech of the person who was at the head of the French Govirie went in July 1840, when the transaction under discussion took place.—( Hear, hear ) If the Right Hon. Gentle. man asked what was the present state of our relations with France, he would certainly say that he saw nothing con nected with the affairs of the East, or likely to time out of them —( Hear, hear)—which would tlis.urb the pacific understanding between the two countries. Sir H. VERNEY defended the vote. Mr. GOULB URN said that the vete involved an int portant question as to the conduct of the Government. The Noble Lord opposite, and the Secretary for tins Ad mir,l ty, stated that a deficient estimate had been moved for because a t u 2 st..tyment of the else would lead to unpleasant consequences, in the irritated state of the French nation at that time. He did not thick that was any justification of their conduct in moving a small esti mate, when they luxes , that a large expenditure would be require I. Lord JOHN RUSSELL was under: tend to say that at the time the estimates were moved, the additional ex h,en liture was not anticipa.ed. Mr. GOULBURN did not think that the Noble Lord's explanation was a complete answer to his (Mr. Goulburn's) statement. The Noble Lord sail that there had at the time been a probability of a necessity for in creased force, and yet the Government had only provided partially for that probability. The Government, as it war, must have excited the suspicion of foreign Pots era ; and, on the whole, he did not think they were justified incoming t) the House with an estimate so far short of that which was required. Mr. MORE O'FERRALL said tb:.t the Gevern ment were at first induced to hope that the forces they carry Sir cut the ROBERTebj: , e p t s e, of E theL said Tr e t r a y t c no 0 July. one con) could command, would he sufficient to enable them to Parliament were sittingornt th O ey a of the proceedingsof Admiralty, complained the when the war to sacrifice the interests of the country would that t to strict st notric be with France wise threatening. tional rules. In times of danger it was always a State. Theraendwia: occasion :et whetherrhoeenqsudt iiurtrequired of a Government to highly probable that ( a l: provide for the great interests of was question about thst. But the force might be necessary—ssn•ga question was— rtisn important one—supposing it ~e, and to as . verom nt tai nform we.s likely to te i tbority ? They might, for instance, c -edit, w!thout requiring any the Lrietees suchs an an inc-ease e m rg e ~ c o y f parii,une s l i t t t r i s i it the duty of the Go). a di.ereticnary stu mertei,Luaisk 1.4. a vote of thought at all events they should liiiv ' e a t r ak e e 't n in"tP. lie gene o show tha a t rai caution against the precedent the it ' ad S3M C . i pro being likely to be followed again. 'Y The dec a l °pled of the Noble Lord opposite had des potic Govcrnmehts had some advantage over tie eenstitu tional States. There was no doubt inconvenience in being obliged to bring tile State aff a i rs un d er the notice of Par liament, and running the risk of publicity. That was an inconvenience which they should submit to. What he feared was that the precedent established by the Govern ment in the present instance might be followed on other occasions. Towards the close of the last Session our r e . le in Pareament for an augments. lion by any call ma .. _ and it mightbe the Intel% s: o" lations with foreign Powers might . have tern dangerously tion of the national forces, On the whole, therefore, it was circum stance would create. if the Government, pressed by any perhaps advisable that the country not to excite t he alarm which such a fake upon itself the roipon t an it should luau a c i x b t i r i a it o y rd o ir a r d y di t n le o ce t s o s i o t ye; should forc :1s rather a communication to Parliament on the subject, thereby giving rise to discussion and diminishing the probability ef an amicable adjustment of the difficulties which might exist.—(Hear, hear.) He would ailaiv that our rela tions with France had bean of a most delicate aed important mature, and might justify the course which had been taken. The Government, however, in order to avoid the danger that such a proceeding could be cited as a precedent hereafter, might have stated in the Socech from the Throne that there had been an excess of the na tional expenditure, and that they had on their own discre tion increased the force of the country. They would thus have left a record that the case was a special one, and such as could only be justified on these grounds. Future Governments might not otherwise understand the peculiar difficulties which pressed on the Ministry in the month of July last; and he would venture to say that in all future (etas the precedent would be referred to in eases where perhaps it would not apply, or it would be easy for Go vernments to persuade themselves that in a particular case they were facilitating an amicable adjustment of a difficult question by assuming frr themselves a discretionary power, and not claiming for t eir proceedings the int naediete sanction of Parli merit. He thought, there fore, it was to be reeretted—not that the Ge v rnment had i ecrease 1 'their forces—but that they eid not make some dist:net communication to Parliament, stating that they bad taken to themselves a discretionaiy poser, but that they had done so under special ci cam stances, and th.t the case could not be considered as a precedent for future imitation. Lord PALMERSTON said that in the principles laid down by the Right Hun. Baronet he entirely concarre 1. He did nut deny the constitutional doctrine stated by the Right Hon. Barone'. But the question was, wheti , e- the case was one which properly ar,d justly should make an exception to the general rule. lie thought for the re !sons stated by his Noble Friend, that they were just:tied in adopt ng the course they bad taken. What was the state of things when Parliament was prorogued ? The Treaty of July had been signed ; and at the tine great irritation, arising out of complete misapprehension, pr e.ailed i 1 the mi ids of the French people. Tnat irritation aro, e front this—the French persuaded themselves that the alliance of tie Four Powers, which Intel b ea int en d e d s i m pl e an d spec i fically for settling the que-tion of the Levant, was an alliance hostilely directed against France. The F.eneh people-said that that was an alliance of the Four Rovers against their country, and the national feeling was tit ,t it indicated a determination to take from her territory, or otherwise diminish her power. Undoubtedly they ni:glit then have come down to Parliament arid stated that sir. cumstances bad arisen which created an angry recline be tween France and the Four Powers, and that as Perli i.- merit was about to separate for some months there was no knowing to what results that irritation might lead in the interval. They might then, in order to provide for all emergencies, allesugh this was the immediate danger, haze asked for a vo'e cf credit which would enable them to take such treasure at a future period, as the necessities of the times might requite. They might have done that, and he could assure the House that the policy of such a step had been fully considered by the Government, and it was not w i,h eut f e ll d e lib erat i on t h at they had abstain e d h em ta ki ig it.---( Hear, hear, hear.) What might ha ve b een t h e consequence if they hid par sued a different course ? Why, the French nation vs ould have said—the British Government is asking for this vote on the grounds of an anticipated war, and they are about t ) enter into an alliance against us with ti,e other Powers. They were, it would be said, asking fur a vote whirl' would enable them to increase their naval forces, so as to be prepared to attack those. of France.—( Hear, li, ar.) They would thus h ave g i ven great we i g h t to the argu ments of those who endeavoured to create feelings of hos tility in the minds of the French people, and they would have been acting in the manner best calculated to avoid war, which was the great object they had in view. They had, accordingly, taken a different course. But was the Eug ish Govcrewisent the oily one that had done so ? The same line cf policy was adapted by the G,.v. rein eats of the Continent. England would have suffered from a ear as would every Power engaged in it; but unque.- tionably its pressure would have been more immedi itchy felt by the nations of Germany, because a war by land i 3 attended with g. eater calamities than Con flicts by eel. Austria and Prussia had abstained from everything that could lead to misapprehe t alon of the intentions of the Allied Powers. At a later period, however, her Majesty's Government had thought it necessary to increase our naval for ca, and the Govern ments of the Continent had felt it equally necessary to take such precautions as would enable them to resist any attack to which they might be subject. He should say, therefore, that although he agreed ia .the general principles laid down by the Right lion. Getitle roan, he thought that under the circumstances it was th e duty of the Government to incur t e responsibility they had done rather than run the risk of disturbing the peace, which it was their first object to maintain, and which by the course which was then pursued, they had fortuna'ely succeeded in preserving. 'nese were the grounds on which they thought they could justify their policy. They had hoped that the irritainn of the French people might soon pass away, and that there would be no continuation of an angry feeling between France and the other Governments of Europe. But on the other hand they hail felt that if these expectations should be disap pointed, and if in the course of the recess they should find it necessary to augment their forces, they need not shrink from such a responsibility. If a war had taken place they should have called Parliament together, and submitted the whole subject to their consideration; but while measures of precaution only were to be taken, they had hoped that Par liament would give them credit for those larger views which had influenced the is policy. In descending to details be found that this course was not a very extraordinary one. In former times, when the financial year began in January, the Government was obligad to incur expemes for which they hid not previously received a vote front Parliament, bat in the present instance the Government bad cons drawn with this e timate, before the end of the financial year, to which it was to be applied, and therefore they could hardly be said to have depatted from the letter of the law. S.r R. PEEL said that the Noble Lord seemed to agree with him in every respect. He (Sir R. Peel) had not said that the Government ought to have asked for yo:e of credit last year, as such a vote might have bean open to some objection. Such a vote might certainly be attended tei•h serious consequences, inasmuch as it might have led t a increased suspicion and uneasiness in Frarce. He could conceive, that, under the special circumstances of the sig nature of the Treaty, assuming it was possible that the Government would be justified in taking upon themselves a discretionary power of increasing the nasal or military forces of the country, rather than provoke di,cussien and irritation by an appeal to Parliemenn—but while he ad mitted that they might have been justified in departing from the usual constitutional mode of proceeding, he thought they should have made some formal communica tion to Parliament, stating the circumstances limier which they had adopted such a course.—((dear, hear, hear.) They might, for instance, at the commencement of the So:- siert, in the Speech from the Throne (although it it was then too late to benefit by the suggestion), have stated that. events had occurred which had induced them to inc. case the it forces, but that this increase had been c teased by peculiar circumstances., and that they expecte I Par da meet would sanction their conduct. He had no doubt that such a course would be approved of by Parliament; and the case could not then have been quoted as a prece dent in future, unless under such very exttaordinary eir cumstancea. He (Sir R. Peel) did not wish thet the subject should be allowed to pass over unnoticed, lest the precedent should be hereafter appealed to. Ile wished to prevent that as much as possible by the observations he had been making, and it was on th at account he had given expression to thern. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, that the result of the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet was, that they ought t ) have advised her Majesty to state tho irregularity of the course t' ey had taken. They should, in the opinion of the Right Hon. Baronet, have come down to Parliameet at the beginning of the Se,sion. This course they might have taken; but he (Lord Julia Russell) sheuld observe, thet in that case they should only have required a general opinion on the subject. He did not say that the course should not have been taken, but he did not see the advan tage that would have followed. from it. He thought it better that this question should came before the House in a Committee of Supply. He admitted tha t e I . ?..ght Hon. Gentleman was entirely right in the general principles which he stated. He did not deny that; and the Right Honourable Gentleman on ilia other band did not deny that there might 1 e cases %litre the departure from that gene al principle might be advisable. lie thought that the discussion which i ad taken ph c . on bath sides would be quite sufficient to prevent this case being broeght into a precedent. Mr. HUME said that as the discussion would not be entered on the journals ti,ere would be no t °card against this being drawn into a precedent. The Noble Lord ad mitted that the necessity for the inc ease had been occa sioned by the policy of the Government. Now, he wanted to know what that policy was, and contended that it would be impossible for them to.come to a deciaien upon this vote until the Syrian policy should have been discussed. If, after a discussion of that suit, when all the papers should have bean laid upon the table, the House should sec right to sanction the policy of the Nelda Lord, he w..uld then offer no fresh opposition to the vote. At pie sent, however, conceiving that by voting these ceinnites he should be sanctioning the Syrian policy of the Nell, Lord, he would certainly propose to negative the y, , te and divide a ga i ns t i t, if he d i v id e d alone. He con sidered that if the Treaty of July bad never been signed th e peace o f E u r o pe would not have been disturbed, and that the Noble L or d , by signing that treaty, had beet the cause of everything, flee laid occurred. If the Noble Lord at the end of the ha-t Session had come down to the House and explained the grounds on which that treaty had been signed, and had stated that its sol e o bj ec t was t h e res toration of Syria to the Porte, and nothing more ; that nothing what! ye: hostile to France was intended, such a declaration made in the face of the British Parliament would have re assured France and calmed her, whereas, by going to work secretly, he gave France cause to apprehend t tat that treaty wits the renewal of art al:iance hostile to her. The Noble Lord had resorted to the most means to fan the Times of reteliiort in Syria. le could not concur i n th e expense w hi c a had been incurreeid , and I o should certainly divide the House The CHANCELLOR of the E XL: /I EQU la a cee b to that tl.e concurring in the vote et ell implied i an ap;:r f e :- ag ainst the v , to. p , . (i tiun of the Syr:a policy. The only practice result I: a logo on with. _(A laugh.) cou ld not in that cete He . `' n Act, and the expenses without breaking the Appropr i ation . 1,1 ,. gativing the vote would be that they would have no money and the public service would be put to the greatest possible inconvenience. He perfectly agreed that it was wily under very special circumstances that a Government s.ts au thorized t o spend money without ca nsulting Pari v. lament, but he conce i ved that those circumstances had been made out in the present cite. Mr. GOULBURN said that they wer e all agreed that this was a quest i on of no trifling i m portanCe. He nos much st ruc k w i th the argument of t h e Hon. Member fir Kilkenny, that this discussion would het lead to anythieg being record° 1 on the Journals so as to prevent this bei 1 - 4* drawn int o a means of ob v i at i ng the difficulty—it was that the present precedent. He thougln ha could sugL.;est. tare vote should be withdrawn, and that in the vote to be subsequently brought forward, words should be introduced marking the special circumstaeces of the case which had led to L h e deetoeure from the usual prsf t Tuat would form a sufficient record to prevent he, being drawn into a precedent. If words e ere intreduced, tdtieg that the canons had been occasioned by special circum stances, which could not have been foreseen at the tote of the prorogation of Parliament, every object would be an swered.—( Hear, beer.) Captain PE C HELL sail the grounds of the objection raised to the vote by the lion. Baronet, the Member for Stamford, differed entirely from those asserted by the last speaker. He should certainly support the vote, and he thought the line of policy pursued reflected the highest credit on the Governmera. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER con curred with the Right Hun. Gentleman in opirden that it would Le advisable to prevent this being drawn into a pre cedent. He thought it would be almost better to intro duce a spacial Act of Parliament for the purpose. Sir R. PEEL thought as it was a special case, it had better be met by a special Act, Mr. HUME—Then the vote will be withdrawn. Mr. C. WOOD approved of the course suggested. He would remind his Hun. Friend the Member for Kit keany that so far from the vote being withdrawn it mtot be pane 1 to make it the ground of the Appropi iative Act. Mr. MORE O'FERRALL thought an Appropriative. Act would be ne.essary to enable him to apply tee money. Sir GEORGE CLERK apprehended the vote of the House woul I be sufficient. Mr. HUME said the special circumstaeces on which the Syrian policy depended might to he discussed first. He thought it would be better to postpone the vote until after that discussion. Sir R. PEEL thought the voting of the money by no mean; implied an approval of Government policy. Grant ing that policy to be decidedly wrong, stitl it was right to pay the a-my and navy. Lord FRANCIS EGERTON would go further, and say that if the Government policy were wrong, that might be even a greater reason for their armamente. A suffi ieat cute of pre-:umption had been made out to snais ! him to do what he was always desirous of doing_ support the Navy Estimates. Lord CLAUDE HAMILTON disapproved entirely of the Syrian policy of the Government. France was the protectress, by treaty, of the Christians of Syria, and therefore naturally viewed aith feelings of alarm any mea sure calculated to inflict the miseries of war on Syria. He should vita with the Hon. Member for Kilkenny. Colonel SIBTHORP rose to address the House, and immediately of erwards Sir Robert Peel nodded to Sir George Clerk, and the two Right Hon. Baronets walke I slowly out of the House, amidst loud laughter fi om the Ministerial benches. When the mirth had somewhat subsided, the Gallant Colonel said be really could not see what thtre was to laugh at in his Right Hon. Friend's going out to procure some refreshment.—(Renewed ' laughter.) He believed the day was not far distant when he should see him occupying the place which the Noble Lord now occupied, and acting and doing what the Neble Lord was incapable of Ling —something for the henefit of the public and country.—( Cheers and laughter. ) The Noble Lord had talked of placing France in a false position—what, he would ask, had France done? Why, she had assumed a position which the Noble Lord and his colleagues had been afraid to assume. ° He should be happy to support the Hon. Member for Kilkenny, if he divided the House upon the vote, but he should be glad to see all these subjects placed in the hands of a Select Committee. Mr. HUME could not accede to the proposition of the Chancellor of the Exchequer without giving up the principles with which he had set out. lie was sorry to vote against her Majesty's Government, but he could not consistently wi h the opinions lie entertained of the policy they had adopted tots ards Syria support them in that policy. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the Com mittee divide d, when there appeared._ For the ye to B9 Against it M ijority in favour of the vote —Bl On our rc-admioion into the Gallery we found— Mr. CORRY on his legs, opposing the next vote which hal Lean put from the Chair Lorene our adnriesion ii.t e the gallery. He thought her Majesty's Government were greatly to blame, for the state of the navy in 1839, ar.d that, throughout, they hal been most cul t ably regard less of the proceedings likely to arise from their policy. Although the charges which had been made against the Admiralty had been denied, they had not neelected to profit by them. During the list two years five vessels had bean launched, arid eleven vcere now ordered to be built, and though her Majesty's Government had net in creased the number of men nominally, they had done so virtually, by appointing 900 supernumeraries. Recollect ieg that three or four thousand of the present force were employed on the coast of China, and considering the ex traordinary preparations which were made by other nation., he almost doubted who her the force then prc posed to be added was sufficient for the public seta ice. Lord A. LENNOX wished to take that opportunity of calling the attention of the House to what he considered an improper distinction between the privates and non-com missioned officers of the Royal Marine Corp?, and those of the troops of the line. If a soldier of the lire was on foreign service for ten y e he received a pension far twenty-five years service; whereas to a ma-ins the same period was only counted as fifteen years. At Plymouth a marine must serve forty years, Elting during that time the most responsible situa tion he:*ore he could obtain a pension. He hoped that the Admiralty would soon remove the invidious distinctions which existed between the two services. If no step were taken towards such a result, ke would, after Easter, bring forward a motion in order to take the sense of the House upon ti.e subject. Captain PECHELL said he .regretted the course which had been pursued by several Hun. Gentlemen oppo site; as ire tredmetsod it to Le admitted on all sides, that the navy had now proved its efficiency beyond all dispute. It lied been stated in the other House of Parliament, that ;leer twenty-four years of peace, the naval officers of this c: untry were not equal in efficiency to those of France, and that even if they were, there was not that affection and attachment towards the Government which would induce them, if called upon, to engage in action. He was confident that there was no officer who had any such feeling. The late events had clearly shown that whenever they were called upon to se ve their country, tkeis deeds would be such as had ever distinguished the navy of England. He beiieyod that at no time we: the navy in a more prosperous condition, or under bet r discipline. The attention which had been bestowed on the naval artillery had greatly increased its efficiency. He had laimse:f differed from the Admiralty on many occasions as to minor details; but the r general management he cordially approved. The French, on all occasions when they had been in the presence of Ergdsh ships, had expressed their admiration of the skill and abi_ lity of our officers and seamen—(Hear, hear)—and this sentiment was not confined to that nation, but was com mon all over the world. It had been asserted that the Bri a nia and Howe were sent out to take part in the naval ong , gemeets on the coast of Syria. He main tained that the Britain:ix and Howe had merely been sent out as relief ships ; and he trusted, in conclusion, the Hon. Gentlemen would be ready to second him when he came down to the House with a motion for a reward to the brave men engaged at the siege of Acre.—(Heir, hear.) Captain BERKELEY believed the gunnery of the British navy was in as great a state of perfection as it ever had beer, but he believed that it was not as regards the fleet is the Mediterretrean, sufficiently manned to cope with a French flee'. It was his doctrine, that no hi -It man of war ought to leave the port without her full com plement of men, and if that were dons, he had no doubt they would be found superior to any naval force in :la world. Mr. W. CHAPMAN Was always ready to g've has vote in favaur of any grants for the efficient equipment of the navy. That navy had done its duty most admi-ably, ' and he eats gratified to say without having had recourse to impressment for their equipment. He believed ih-re never was an instance in which so large a number of line of b.ttle ships were sent out from that country without havit:g had recourse to that distressing expedient of taking men from the merchant service.—( Hear, hear.) It was the first duty of the House to keep up the British navy, and the vote should therefore have his support. Lori FR A NCIS EGERTON lied vis'ted a French ship, Montebello, when she was lying in the Bay of Smyrna, and he believed she did not throw a heavier broad sid: than the Princess Charlotte. Now he had ewer. tained that the number of men in the Montebello was 1,130, and he left it to the Lords of the Admiralty to say bow many the Princess Charlotte had.--( Hear, hear.) The Committee would recollect that at Acre only one broadside of the ships had been engaged, but suppose they had been en gaged with an equal number of French shipe, how would the case have been ? Where would the Admiral have bee-a ? Most probably where the victory was at Trafalgar, lying alongside the two heaviest ships of the energy, and he feared it.would have given Admiral Stopford more than hie men could do to come off as British sailors always hither 0 bad come off, triu ephant. On a former cce ton he had alluded to the services which two naval offi:ers, Sir Howard Dcuglas and another, had rendered to the country by their improvements in the gunnery practice of the navy ; he had since ascertained that he had done i .justice t) a third and very able officer, Captain George Smith, who had been equally serviceable in this respect, and to where name be was anxious now to do justice. A'COURT hoped the Government would lose no time in placing all the navy upon its full complement of men. The only proof they could hive of the Efficient manning of the ships was in the event of a naval engage ment. Mr. C. WOOD did not think that House the best place fir discussing matters of detail connected with the service, and it bad never led to any satisfactory result. They had last year had Hon. Members impeachiag the conduct of tl:e Admiralty, and it turned out that they were entirely wrong ; arid now it was said that the present ef f icient state of the navy was owing to their attacks. Why, the build ing of ships in 1836 could not have bcea owing to their attacks in 1838; nor could the increasts in the number of men in 1638 have soi3en from their attacks in 1839. He would remind the Committee that the principle of placing the ships on a peace complement, during the time of p..ac e , bad b een t h e print iple unif o r m ly acte d upon by every Admiral! y , on th e groun d ,hat the expense was thereby di miliished aod that men had net the same work to do in peace in timeof war. The Noble Lord (G. Lennox) complained that the trtt , in e was not p l aced on the same footing as C.e seaman with regard to the period of obtaining his dii clnrge, because two }ems' service in barracks was only e)unted equal to one year's service at sea, but he must protest against making these camparisons between the two Lranehes of the serv i ce. The mar i ne received a .higher pension than th e soli r and was sooner entitled to i t, and ai regarded the seaman it would appear fromthe return he i;e!el in his b au d th at very few seamen obtained their pen sions or discharge before thirty years' service, including, o f course, th e var i ous per i o d s w h en t h ey were. paid off atid in lc!iv• service, and :h refore the marine was not in a worse p...sition than t h e seaman in that relacet.. Lord GEORGE LENNOX bad complained that there bad been seveaty-six nav4l officers promoted at Acre, and only three marine officers. If there was no distinction between seamen and marines in etecr re pcct:, in the name of God let there be no distinction between naval and marine efficere—( Hee-, hear.) He wcul,', however, shortly g;vo Hon. Members an opportunity el recording their opii inns, by bringing forward a specific motion on the subject. Mr. PLUMPTRE understoed the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. C. Wood) to say that he did not consider that cow:- try gentlemen, and those living far in -land, nad a right to express any opinion on the subject of naval affairs, with which they could not be reasonally supposed to be very intiinet ly acquainted. Now, he (Mr. Plumptre) thought that every Member of that House ought to enter into that, or any other subject, as much as he possibly could. On the efficient state of the navy at the present period he would congratulate that Hou:e ; indeed, the navy was never mere efficient than it was at the present time. Mr. C. WOOD was not aware how anything which he hal said could site rise to what the Hon. Member ( Mr. Plumpti e) had attribute I to him. He (Mr. C. Wood) never objecte I t 3 country geatlemen giving their opinion on naval matters, but ah at he state ] WAS, that dis cussions such as the present were only likely to give rise to insubordination in the navy, and that gentlemer, not practically exie rienccd in those male re were not ee queint:d with what number of men, See., might or might not Le requisite. Sir C. ADAM said that it had been the fashion in that House to say that our ships were net in an effee:ive state. Them we - e, perhaps, some few instances in which with some degeee of fairness that charge might hays feet ma;.e, but one would suppose, that after the experience of the last few months Hon. Members would no longer bear such as re-o°ns made in that House. Let that House and toe country only look to what had been done lately in the Me diterranean, and Frey whether S r Robert Seopfurd had not had sufficient means to carry out his plans. That Gal lant Officer was delighted with the complements of men furnished to him. He had evea written home to state his satisfaction at the means which had been placed in his hands to carry on the operations on the coast of Syria. The fleet was composed of 17 sail of the line with 1,600 'nee short of their complement, and he, Sir IL Stopf.ird,) had 1,200 or 1,300 supernume:ies to fill up ;heir places. From the statements made at timea by Honourable Gentlemen in that House, one might be led to suppose that our ships were more ineffiiient than those of former times. Now, he (Sir C. Adam) had got a return made out of the number of ships under the com mand of Lord Nelson at Trafalgar and the Ni'e, the com plements of men to each ship, and he found that the fleet under the command of Lord Nelson had not a greater complement of men than that at present in the Mediterra. Lea-. With regard to what hal been stated by the No :le Lord behind him (Lord G. Lennox) as to the marines, he (Sir C. Adam) should say that the marines distinguishel themselves as much as any other portion of the men ea. gaged in the late operations on the coast of Sy via. With respect to its being said that our trees in the Mediterranean were not sufficient to cope with ;he French, he should say that our fleet was more than able to cope with the French, who put forward every ship they could supply; whereas the British had 26 line-of batt!e ships in the Meditetranean, and 15 other line.of battle ships which, when necessary, they could put into active service. The navy of this country was in a state to satisfy any reasonable demands that would be made upon r. Sir T. COCKBURN reprobated the departure from the old system of equipping the navy, which was to hare fewer guns and more men. Captain MAUNSELL was not in the beta of support ing the Government, but felt it his duty to bear testimony to their liberality towards the marine department, and to their readiness to listen to suggestions from that side of the House.—(ll: , ar.) After a few words in explanation, Croat Capt. Pe.lol, Sir G. Cockburn, and Mr. C. Wood, Mr. HUME said, as nu satisfactory explanation had been given for the vote, he should move to reduce it Coin 43,000/ to 35 000/. Lord PALMERSTON said it was t-ue the face wo had last year was quite sufficient fur the accomplishment of all our operations in Syria, but if other maritime coun tries increase t their naval force, it was becoming in Eng land to put ht rs on a footing of equality with them.— (Hear, hear ) Although there was nothing at protect likely to disturb the peace of Europe, be was sure there could be no better course to preserve peace than having our navy in a state of preparation for any contingency. Mr. HUME said be admitted the success of the opera tions in Syria, but it was the arms of the wicked that bad triumphed.—( Cheers.) He thought it would be wise not to inc.case, but to diminish our force, at present. Nothing could tend more to bring about a return to relations of amity with France, than our setting the example of re ducing our armaments. He would strongly recommend the Noble Lord to be content with the force which he had last year, and which was found sufficient to meet all the emergencies that arose. It would be time enough to in crease our forces when a necessity arose for active hostilities. The question was then put, and the estirna a was carried, Mr. Hume and another Hon. Member being the only dissentients. The next estimate of 1,493,750/., for wages of tea men and marines, was agreed to after a few words from Captain Ptchell. The earn of 782,040. for wages of seamen and marines is ordinary was next voted. The next vote was for 121,8441., for the salaries of officers of the Admiralty and dockyards. Colonel SIBTHORP objected to proceeding w'tla such important vote,: in so Brie a House, and at so late an hour. Mr. M. O'FERRALL hoped the lion. and Gillett Member would not obj set to proceed now, when there was only one vote more to be proposed. After a few words from Sir J. GRAIIAM and Mr. Hume the voce was agreed to. The sum of 2,952/. was then proposed for the salaries and expenses of the office for the Register of Merchant Seamen. Mr. HUME observed that the object for which the re gister was established had not been obtained. Sir J. GRAHAM said that the Act had in its results exceeded his expectations. He had expected only 13,000 apprentices to be regi-te red in a year, but the fact was that the number bad been upwards of 21,000. The vote was then ag:eed to. The sure of 31,9821. was voted for the salaries of officers, and the contingent expenses of several scientific persons in the navy. The sum of 124,5291. was vote) for the salaries of offi cers, and for the contingent expenses of her Majeety's naval establishment at home. The au +n of 22,1521 was voted f r the salaries of officers and the contingent expenses of her Majesty's naval esta blishment abroed. The vote for wages was postponed. The CHAIRMAN then reported progress, and ob tained leave to sit again on Friday next. The house having resumed, On the motion of Mr. HUME, fur Mr. Wallace, the fAlowing Returns were ordered :—A Return, in columns, by the Justice of Peace Clerks of the several Counties ir Sco land, and by their Deputies and Assistaet, respec tively, of the total amount of Fees levied, and of other emoluments received by them annually, since the Return to this House for the years 1833, 1834, and 1835 respec tively ; specifying, in detail, the amount of Fees le vied under the Small Debt Act, the Baekrupt Act, on Piecognitions, and all other fees or emoluments wha'ever ; and also, the amount of the annual ex penses or charges incurred by these Officers for Office -rents, Fees, or Salaries to their Deputies or Assistants ; with the na nes of these persons, and under what authority and by whom they acre appointe•'. Also, the date of appointment of the Justice of Peace Clerks and their Deputies., the hours of their daily attend ance at their office, wigs the name of any other palm office they hold, or employment they are engaged in ; and whether the raid Justice of Peace Clerks hold their office for life, and on what terms they and their Deputies hold their appointments. This Return to he dated and signed by the Principal Clerk and his Deputies, if any. Also a Return, in columns (in continuation of that made in 1833), of the salary, fees, and all other emoluments paid to or re ceived annually by Procurators Fiscal to the Justices of the Peace in each County of Scotland, since last R-turn, and up to the Ist of January, 1841 ; with the name, place of residence, and date of appointment of the said Procurators Fiscal; the' Return to show the sum paid t each Fired in etch county annually, and also the sum paid by the county or by fees annually, stating the amount received wicks- the name of expenses or costs cf suit, with that chargeable to the county funds respec tively, and the total amount of both. Also, the amount of fines imposes, and of fines received resprctirely i■ each year by e •ch Procurator Fiscal; the Return to state whether the Fiseals keep a book or any record of the sen tences:, and a book showing the fines, or, if net, to wive how these are recorded; the Returns to be dated and signed by each, Procurator Fiscal in each county. On the , motion of Mr. HUME, a return was ordered cf the expenses incurred by Government in preparing for and conducting the prosecution of Earl Cardigan is the House of Lords; distinguishing, under separate heads, the amounts paid to the several parties engaged therein, and the names of the persons to whom these sums were paid. Mr. FOX MAULS pee notice of his intention to more t -morrow for a Committee to consider of authoris ing. any advance out of the Consolidated Fund of the United Kingdom of Gr. at Britain and Ireland, which may here after be required for supplying any deficiency in tl e fund primarily applicable to the eapenres of County Courts, as regulated by any Act to be passed in the present Session of Parliament. The other Orders of the Day we•e teen disposed of, and ;hell - louse adjourned at a Quarter before Twelve o'Clock. ACCIDENT ON THE GREAT WESTERN R AIL WA Y, —An accident of a fatal nature, arming from ezre sive carelessness en the part of the urfortuca'e deceased, occurred at the Steventon sta*ion, to a man upwards cf sixty years cf age, on the afternoon of Thursday last, who vas knocked down (as be was incautiously crossing the line) by the half past four o'clock train from Wootton Bas,:ett, to Paddington. The poor fellow, who got his living by selling fruit, was struck by a projecting portion of d ie engine on the Itond, and his death must have been in stantaneous ; for, upon his receiving immediate assistance, life was found to be extinct, arising from a severe wound on his bed. But very few drops of blood oozed from tl.e wound. It should be observed that there is a footpath which crosses the lines at the place where the accident oc curred, where the Company's men are stationed to endea vour to prevent accidents occurring through the carelest- E 036 of the public. ALGIERS.--The Semaphore de Marseille of the 22d tilt., states, that the population of Algiers eon li.sted, on the 31st of January last, of 30,000 individuals, 16,247 of whom were Europeari 4 s; l l, 2ta viz. 7,208 and 862 5,201 Spa. i ar d s , 1 , 5 6 4 E ng li s h, Germans; of these 8,076 me- e mon, 3 042 women, and 5,1 9 9 were chi'dreo. "An officer of the areoy, M. St. AuLyn," acNs the correspondent of the Semaphore, " la.ely cone to spend a fo r days in our city; but I could not micertain whether he had undertake!, his journey to &wit . " his curiosity or to accomplish a mission." R VENTING EDIT , MESSRS. R WRIG HT'S R UPTC Y. COURT OF BANKRUPTCY, 1 11 - 4 ' 8 " 1 (fitfore Mr. Commis,iom-r HoLoorn.) ; Tnis day being. appoint,d for the erilargoil tion of Mr. Wright Biddu!ph, and the cst of claims on the estate, a number of persons ettet.treu to prove debts on the joint-estate, also the pri" e bilities of the gentlernai, all of which acre al t low e without opposition. ip The lirgest claim established at thi4 sittln,g wa s the name of Wm. Millikea, E q., Secretary to the Bank of Ativralizi, Mooro . e-stieir, under the sepolite, items of 1,1941. on a balance of a general ocotillo of the said Bank ; 1,7811. 125., balance of a di' id A cn d accouct ; and .299/. 55., en balance of Director's funuee account. The sum of 4361. was allowed in the pair of Rob-rt James Harrissor, as cxecator.of Th°ll9,t Harrison, l a te p ro p l i e t nr of the Tavist ,ck Hut I, 11°- sent•Garilen. A great many clime, v.trying if In g 2 4 to 801. chiefly tralusmens' and : e vents' 1).1 core Pti is and allowed with:At oppos . tior. - Mr. Joseph Wiadle, principal (1 A t o the fiAll, ctiLiljt; ing put i n d e p os i t i ons as to t` e amount of the I nhi st,nding in the name o f t h e diff eren t princip: l4, further coosilerafon of the case c d w as at J ourn . Mr. Biddulpli was unable, from the stated his bolo , to attend at the examination. NAVAL INTELLIuE'NCE. Other sorts 1, 7 u - 1 10 87 2 . 1, Total of Wine 1,915,364 Total of Cotton Wool 417,045 Othcr attielas Total Customs £23,278,089 -52, 76/ - ‘ 76,11 1 £23,4- T liE MARKETS. READ. '" fith. 111", hes ri eof .t PR re I CE i OF B qi,t,e.F)Ls is 94J Lt at. CotAl Breta w.ay be bad at 7%R. PIII:Ei OF SEEDS. Per Cwt, For Q u arter ... , MS% New E.igl sh !ten Clover...6)s Os St. Fein .............. ......... 1 81 ,„1 Old int,: Ditto -s -ti -- r Rye G ass ........... - ..... _a •••" 011 New Foreign D..to -s 5:34-10s Pacey Grass .... .... ........• s g ° ' Pig 011 Ditto Ditto -s --s -s L'itseerl, for fe ...... •••--, tll/ 04 ts ew White Clover 158 stis 6's Dit o, for sowing •••• ••"-', 42 or Old Dist, Ditto -s -s -8 Ditto, for erushi-11 •••• •„ ,„ 4 5r OW ,'e.w Trc oil .... -s its 4f , s ll,rn ............ . ....... '' ...-s fu g Old Ditto Jr'' foil= ... • - a -13 s '',Os Per 11. sh,g l ' o a to 1 1° . pi E - .glish Carraway -r :ins 5 s White Must:rd.... l ' s ito I ' - 0 0 ..5 06 H A Foreign Ditto _-.:. .;tii `.Us Brown Ditto ......... i'. li d ft • . Coriander -s 14s les.rares ...,„.. ........... 7s v.• , P•i ICE OF OIL. 45 1 Rape Oil, brown, per ton Ditto, refined ..... .. '7, 4 1 ' 0 Linseed Oil ............. . .. .................. ... ... ............... •• 5 :1 0 Lins ed Oil Cake at tli Mill (ye; . 1 . 0:41C ............. ''' 0 Ra, e ake per to . , , g , • • 0.• PllftE OF TALLow, som., C. per 11 011 " .xl ,' 0 rown Tallow £2 11 6 Melting Stuff ..............• I 0 0 Yellow Russia .. . 2 8 6 Ditto Rough .................. 011 a White. ........ •i. 0 4 Graves ........................ 0 0. Soap Ditto 0 0 lI I G out! Dregs .................•_.. PRICE OF RAW FAT, p er s t on e of 61111 , . sg. lU° Price of TAlow (as stated by the 'Fallow Molten 10.... ......... COAL MARKET. 0. 5 bhips arrived since last market day, `V• a. 1. 0 ..... .• " 0 Ada is dell, Robson & Co. H a r t l e y 1 • 0 W all; End l ' e mbes" n - ;17o0 ' O 5 . Middle's West Hartley l9 6 Walls End Russell' s I:" • 1 ........ g! Char:otte Main ••• 14 6 Walls End Stewart's ...... , a 0 Carr's Hartley I)ean's Primrose 1 i 3 Walls End Caradoe ..... **7 . ,... 1 5 Derwent Slain l7 0 Walls End Cassop ...... ...... • 7 4 .0 Hebburn Main...... Uolyweil Man New '1 antield Moor • Old Axwell Main Orig:nal Windsor's Polito,' 17 9 Walls End l'arringt°'' . ...• i 0 g Pontop Windsor" Tantield M00r... End ni S lj t a .;: r l -r . e 'eT ; ; ° :, :ri'ej ... 'il I ratified Moor Bute• %Villington Wylaut ....... .......... . ... .i. non . 9 6 0 Walls E..d I:ewtei c and C. 'il 6 Walls End recs.-re-- •• ,g Walls End Clennell .... sValls End Josfo to ... 7 1 1 0 Walls P'nd Heaton W4lis End Hilsla .......• '1 0 Cow , ............ • g •. ••• - p..n ................. 4. Walls End Hotspur Walls End Killing worth Wails End Perkins Walls End Riddell's WJE. Braddyll'alletti.m : t. 2Elj 3 30 1 SiNttEn'et:laylYirss3ifaiii°l"r•.t.h.•...ll......a.t%'l;•::: L1)'16.1 Waifs End native! • ...... ... 2:3 3 Walls End Dewong hli Walls End Helton ' s f "CORN '" G LAST ..-46 —46 COUNTR ►IAfKE' 'S DURI Wheat. Barley. Oats. Per Quarter. 6. tO a. S. to L. c .. to Hexham Morpeth Benrith...„ i 1•8 50 62 32 39 24 '2B O. to p. 2t 23 21 14 Sheffield Winchester Per Bushel Carina' then Cowbri Swansea ( 0 CI. 8. ti. 10 0 - 01 78 80j `25 30 00 8r 50 5 40 44 Per Boll.""" Barnardcastl Ourhtun Richmond Stockton .0 ‘.:.6 e. d. ..(1. 0 0 '2 1 36 4 t 4 116 0 18 SL 13 R la r It 6 ISO lb 6 176 S 0 g 3 t , 0 9 0 7 0 1 90 9( 7 4 5 6 6 6 5iS PL 70 6 6 3 5 -- _ :13 4 A I (I. " b 6 0 0 50 5 . 5 4) 0$ i J O '2 6 11 6 76 S. e. l° ; SI 41 571' 35 nN u 0 d 11 ,t , 10 8 0 I g 0 g 0 0(1 DEATH ,OF THE CO " li-1; 112 0 1 131- 1.7 ....-_ , ..-z NTEss -r,-;---- OF s „, t . -- f :LV a e n r ‘ c d g ol; “ . . n t o to t h: s ve ii t g a ai s i t t a b te e t e h n at the i f a am d ily of dee og.- into a e grief and affliction, by the death to)funtriet Countess; of,,,ber° borne, which took place on Sunday et Wilton. l l o o d til b c 4 4l 4 , 1 ; her Ladyship had been in a vat., which Prec luu hi° Yr ' the greater part, of tie p week. H 14845 At e rind daughter of . the late part of l - P - eMbrok e e r, aDd wa s d_in August last. She was in her 24th year., re' PUBLIC INCOME AND EXPENDITURE' hoo4i turn has been made to the House of Comill.„,° ° !'„ l ,l the total rsr income and expenditure of the u"":" L t 3 st 14 % - dom for the last fouryears, from which it apPea" "07, t " excess of expenditure over income amounted I 9 i/.• 5 121 655,760/ ,in 1838 to 345,228/., in 1839 t° l 107, 15-1. and in I 540 to 1,593,970/. ; making a total of I I STEEL FIRE-IRONS, with Broni e— *HI; 15s. per Set, Bronzed Fenders, ! s. A varietyise t"" terns and prices, from th e above to JOs. at wh ich afc - eil trth fenders are parti cu l ar l y h an d some, w i th silendid fo l d t he 'I; richly intermi xe d w i t h steel, the ends are stee l, an, re.io porters for th e a re -i rons b ronzed. Pol i s h e d st"' of from 4s. per set. 0 0 1 ' Catalogues gratis, containing the prices of e very Furnishing I ronmongery , rd-s treet. RIPPON and BURTON, Wells-sheet, 01'6- Established 1820. BIRTHS.----___---- - 00 ;0 On the 25th tilt., the lady of the Rev. W. Hospital, of a daughter. : of A 0 i On the 26th ult., at Cromer Hall, Mrs. H. na r l.: 911" Foste 00 On the 26th ult., the lady of M:;rgan 11. Upper Southwick-street, Hyde-park, of a d,-aigh te _ r ,, fril t ' On the 27th ult., Mrs. J. L. Foster, of Acre- 1111 °' f Rill' 0 of a son. if s PIO On the 27th ult., at Yarmouth, Norfolk, , •- 1.- * ger. a daughter. of th e ' On the 27th ult at H d . t Wilts, the wife •, ea mg on, 11 11 ' G. Majendie, of a daughter. t e a . park , On the 27th ult., at P.irk-village-west, Reg" - A. Honey, of a son, Harrison, On the 0..3d ult., at W M ith A er ß id ß ze t , E D D eN .- 0n ,13. of 11 , 1ifax, Nova Scotia, to .- Elizabeth, daub Coster, Esq. T mar On the Ist inst., at St. Bride's Church, ••• dattP" Esq., Castle Hotel, Windsor, to Mar:. aret n 1 1 eldest of S. • Lovejoyof F t , sq., arringdon-stree t Thhcterreofr, HaOln. L th a e lle :t i ll iir u e l: a ., ge a: 3580,..LneacinlenDhHdl-sistet, Mi" Wilhebilin* lhlitehell. —/ VO A .._ On the 27th ult., Mrs. Anna Maria Hesketb, of On the 10th of October last, at Manilla, W. Saville- 1 19°111; On the Ist ult., at Brussels, J. Gill, Esq., W e of Janeiro, aged 68. i W it ' On the 17th ult., at Cotterstoelz, near °mullet -- Ili d Esq., a(red 74. OO, On the 20th ult., Mr. Michael !Until], Of 13(viviiiig B:adford, Yorkshie. On the 26th ult., r at Torquay, W. Y. Alban, Esq.' JO Coln's-inn, aged 54. on o t r i d le on 2 : 3 E th s q u . l , t . o , f a A t b S e e rg ve e n ie, Oaks,ieo,..,tlh Britain,t raie,svid s age v g o eci f ,6 9 : h v e . so D. Gordon, On the 26th tilt., Mr. J. Clinker. late cf St. ei"f Of Lin' ,ondon: Printed and Published by 311.111D0 Yu — , „ n d I /1 No. 112, Strand, at The Sun Office, No. 112, c the county of Illiddlesex.—Tuesday, March 2,1845. rout. (From the Plyrdouth Independent.) PLYMOUTH, FEB. 27.-11. M. steamer Comett —i i i ir, Syr, having i i tow the Voted, new steamer, Wit 1 - le..derson, and a party of seamen, arrived yenter da Y' .1.- • Pk mbruk... , w ith The Adv nts..rt, transport, arrived on Tama* .„, t„r,.s Iron Portstnouth. The Emerald, Portsmout' , , and the Devon, light2r, from Pembroke, sr rived 3 encrday. sailed yes!e64l H. M. it,amer Vo',eano, Lieut. Wes', (Friday), from Wooleieh, t-s i e repaired. esa Sl , i i :s in Hamosze —Cal, ddt in, 120, Capt. Eden; ' Come', Vi r . e :: Josef, 110. Capt. J. N. TsWer, C. B. ; Plot), and Carron, steam-% essels ; star, packet; S si t i i ; cutter; Emerald, terder; Adveature, Laval tro 9 P °. - Rceieiter, lighter. v dr In the Seund—lmprtg able, 104, Captain T. . 6 ", , C. B. ; 132 ileisk, 72, Cap. T Nicolas, -C.B. sr" pt. cup teader, fro: 26, Capt. Hugh Nurse. thettant Shears, of the Hastings, on big 010 Lie • • prong t from the Wazp, of whic% ship he was the senior flg' gt t a t , the bombardment of Ace, was presented wilt an 813 011 ' 4 by the ship's company as a token of their reapc't 5 esteem. CUSTOMS' DUTIES. ' e t Of a ale An account of the impor 4:36 ts ( f the principal al t o fo!eiot and'eolonial m erc h an di se, an d o f the ma y, duties received on them is the year ended s th J WA 1841, cumvared with those o f th e p rece ding years h 7: 0 4 : hm 7, id before Parliament. Th e art i c l es euu e ate° —", $ a hundred, some o f t h em nro d uc ; ng to tt ! e ter` o .eto sum as low rs 3/. annually. Tin, for instance' 1840, paid a Custom s ' d u ty o f 28 / ., an d, in 184 icid Copper Ore unwrought the same amount in 1 84l u i hic al. Skins, undressed, 24/ ; Cinnamon, 412/. ; C nc "' i gell 238/. ; and many others, v rying from 2,000 A tl ff -, pi small sums as those enumerated. About taehe u.7e;il articles produce less than I,OOOL each. The 010 1 1 ar , the amount of Customs Duties paid on the princiPni ticles of revenue for the two yr a-s : GROSS AMOUNT OF DUTY RECEIVED. 184 1 4 . 0 1840. 92 2, 7 4 5 Coffee 72 3 1" Wheat 631,698 Grain in gencr.l (inclu ing 1,1701 Wh at) 1,117,120 200 63. Mola,ses 1, 154,-. 9 Rum 1,273,765 ),25 9 . 7 ° Brandy 1,1, Geaeva 28,891 4 65,° 2° Sugar . Tea - s * 473, 04 P. , Tobacco, uumanufactured Maiufactured, and Snuff BB 261 . 077 8 Wine__ Cape French lO9 763 100— ~: t () ,