The Sun. — London, England, 1819-05-25 00:00:00

,an ere ~.,•~ic :,r- Klt" eri" cyr ttkei thef if OP respc.ting tt drain upon ale ilank, if a qrn sze " ere adopted which would oblige them 1 . " regul a t e t h e i r i ssues b y t h e !nice of gold, he " I . o tl reply by re t ell i ng the House to the ex -I,ottence th e y h a d o f suc h a plan from 1774 0 1 / 9 7 . Then 'he Bank regulated their issues to the price of gold; and what was the "Ivo:pence 1 It they lookcd at the returns, it would he found that during drat period the price gold bad never exceeded 31. 17i. 6 , 1. per °Z. — `" "'he Bank had been compti;ed -to p'y their flutes ill gold, the market price of gold had been 4r )nFned to the Mint price. Then, as it was pro ,r yosed should be doue now, the holder of Bank 7 "res tp the ntnouot of 9 501. had a ri.J.ht 10 de- j6 l soil ha ,utg r'll Lo 4 ~nJ~ , 4 S ►iagr cosi' Iron .; 9 Jo tip" PAY° ' Th 'hd-- , -rrot what runny contused themselves with, 0 +natty soverci!ns or guineas—but 51bst of gold. fly the regulations of the Mint it was determined `that it pound of gold should be made in! o l'ort y ,l6lkr .gutneas and a half ; and gold at this late the l '°l:ler of Bank notes had a right to demand. The tad been sent out of the country. But the price Told, it was said, varied. It was now 41. Os. bill it had been 41. lOs and even 51. 2s. and'it Illight he so again. The assertion that the price 'if gold had thus risen was a fallacy ; it bad varied 11 . 5 to paper, hut, taken abstractedly, had it risen in value any e .? a id m gold purchase more silver, ore coin, °r mo r e other commodity that was fixed in its "uality, and secure from fluctuations in stipply, than jt ( lid 50 years ago He denied that it did. On the contrary, it purchased less, and for this r , a eon, that E!igland and other countries had found 3 libbtitute tor it, and the consequence was, the valu e of gold was, in point of tact, less now than It , "'as halt a ce ntury ago. Bit then it was Sam , 4 te price of gold had been raised by an increase :f taxatio n He held this to he impossible. It "ad been found tbst price, , high, when taxes ! ' e re low, had fallen when taxation became t: r‘g b er• Gold, he eon ended, the Legislatu re had il,ntetid e d to pass by its weight as bullion. One tt bieetion to the plan of the Committee was found -4,(1 on the a•sertion, t hat the revenue having great jY intreased a circulating medium proportionably Marge became neeesssry. This argument seemed tather formidable at first. They were toll, that tl 'e revenue and the I lade of the country, as well a s the pt ivate fortunes of individnals, had increased, a nd that consequently,' an increa.ed circulating eiliu r n became indispensible. This, however t l aqsib:e it might seem, he „would positively e nY• To refute die position, he would compare ' a. " periods, an d show what in them had been the st ' t e of ow revenue and of our circulating medium, a nd ti t , periods he ieterrerlio were 1 79 2 and 1809 . „,, he la.ter year he bad chosen from, this circum- Man ce, that there was then no deficiency in a nt circulating mediem, and it was the year ' h ich preceded t hat in sviiich the Bullion Com .' ,_ "lltee was appointed. It was indeed supposed t hat there was an excess of currency. The opinion *as, that too many Bank notes had been issued, 1 , 111 1 this had led to the appoint went of the huh -61) Committee. It any person considered the attiount of our cirenlatiog medium ought to he a"grovio e d as the revenue acid trc.de of the coon increased,- it would follow that our circulating 211 "littni ought to have been much greater in 1809 'haft it was in 1792. Bu( it had actually varied "an inverse proportioo. lo 1792 our circulat- Vg medium had been estimated. by the late Lord 1-iNerpool, to amount to 30,000,0001. He would klik e it at 5,000,0001. in order to make it as a h!avourable as possible for his own position, a t nti Qoop o s e it in reality to have amounted to "'" 0 ,0001. From official returns it appeared, that nere were tloli in circulation Bank notes to the amount of 11,000,0001., making the total t^ , -unt of the circulating medium .at that period ' 4 ,, , 6 ,000,0001. At that period the interest of the '"attonal Debt was 9,000,0001. ; the number of l e „ s 'els engaged commercial enterprize was t ", 000, their official value being about 1 9, 000,0001 . 113t1Ch was the state of thongs in 1792. In 1809 the interest of the Public. Debt had risen to 7 1,0 00.0001., baying increased more than . three i the number of ships employed in commerce had increased one-third, being :hen 15.000, and the am ount of our exports ban increased one-half. V I this year gold was 41. Ils. per Oz., so it coul d ant he supposed that much could remain in circa ' , ati° o• It might h e f a i r l y ' supposed that there r 5 htlle or none,.and this assumed, it would be that in 1809 a • circulating medium of , L " ,(10 0,0001. managtd smile way to transact ; I ne bo.iness of the ratio" with an increase of : 4)1 , dn increase of trade, and an increase of laxatioti though in 1792 a circulating medium of t 6, 000,0001. was required. A paper which had •"1 moved for by a Noble Friend of his in an other place, and which he (Mr. Peel) bad also la 'ved for, threw great light on this subject, and l o wed that at one period - the same amount of • ok notes would do three times Lim business that I :nuid he so accomplished at another. The return, ‘ n , which he alluded showed the number of notes which h a d been i ssue d of each denomination in 4 ' 7 92 and 1818., with calculations, so far as the cog Oil b e m a d e our, how long each had re- In 'llovd in circulation in the two years. He then thtered into the same details On that subject which - LFriday, Li'verpool submitted to the other house on in order to show, that in the progress of W .,'!alth and refi ne ment, means had been fo u nd, !_lirtrtu g h the improvements which bad been mittle, to transact more b us i ness w i t h a sma ll e r ci r cul a ting o irdiutn. From the comparison thus instituted, he 1 : 1 1 '°"14lit it foll o w e d t h at t h e doctrine which had L e'll adv a n ce d o f an i ncrease d c i rcu l at i ng mediume ° oniing n ecessar y f rom an i nc r ea s e o f reve 11ne or of commerce, Must entirely fall to the ground. Some persons, who were of opinion that ametallic currency was desirable, thought, after I n !;p•ensing wiih i t f or twenty - two , years , t h at it s v t )tild be difficult to ret u rn to the ancient le '"“lard.; These the t &or proposed that the pre 4_nt Wice of gold shook! be taken to form the :ttititre standard o f t h e country. Thi s was to a l ter d elwmination of•our money; but all that could !k w g ot b y th i s would be that which might be ob cit_i'_ed troth acting a fraud u l en t p ar t by the public 1:1 _7:tor. It might relieve us f rom some of their " 1 5 , but it would not lower the price of gold, nor torn th e exchanges in our favour; nor t ts t inra l ti l t, r t a r i t se t be " " f r o r t e . enneira!inlgf w medium e ptit our .o . tu , argei quantity of alloy than usual, it otild not fol • oh 1 4 .10M:et - It AeveNe 1150,e abroad. 13kvcatise we called they *illicit was worth I9s. a guittea, he wciiild not give tis 21s. for it. Such a mea sure would give us no security against the exportation of coin, if the price of gold should continue high. He called upon the Hunse to look at the policy of such a course of proceed ing, which would only procure that which they conic! at any 'line procure by fraud; an easier way of paying the public creditor. lie thought it de sirable that they should return to Cash Payments. Unquestionably in doing so they had to encounter consiiierable difficulties, but to these the nation ought to submit as to a just punishment forhaving renounced them so long. If they altered the stan dard now to 4/. Is. at a future period they would be culled upon to act a similar part again It I.vould be said that France or Russia, or some other Power, wanted gold, and that thither all the coin issued from the Bank of England would be con veyed, and therefore the wise policy of those who raised the, siandard from 31. 17s. 1011. to 41. Is. ought to be imitated, and the standard again raised front 41. Is. to 41 10s. Against such a principle he must enter his protest. In the history of the country it would he found that at three former periods the currency of the country had been reformed, and manfully restored to the ancient standard. To these tutee periods lie would call the attention of the 1-louse, and it would be seen that they were periods to which Englishmen might look back with wide and satis faction. Tney would be round in the reigns of Edward the First, Queen Elizabeth, and William the Third. At all three of ,the periods to which lie alluded great difficulties were ro be encoun tered ; difficulties at least as great as any that opposed the present plan, yet those difficulties had been met, and had been overcome. The first instance in which a ref►►rmation in:rut- currency took place was in the time of King Edward. At the very moment when he was occupied in conquering Wales, and engaged in au attempt to subdue Scotland, he hid applied .. . _ himself to improve the circtdating medium, and his conduct in this instance had been praised by the most intelligent historians. The next period at which the ancient standard had been restored, was in the reign of Qieen ElizaheJi, under ch.. comstances to he would call the attention of the House• The currency of the country had been debased during the r.-igns of Henry the S Ii and Edward the 6th, in some instances not less than 400 per e4att. The same coc:sequences that were not , . experienced from a deteriorated circu lating medium then became the subject of com plaint. There was an advance of prices, great fluctuation in the value of a ll com m o diti e s, an d great disturbances at different times. It was in the second year of Elizabeth, that she, by the ad vice of her Ministet Burleigh, determined to re tot m the coin of the re dm. There were then not wanting those who could tell of the difficulties attendant ou the execution of such a design.— 'They said the new coin would pass into fo reign couut, ks, and that all that conld be done would be of no avail. Ireland, she was warned, was tiler' almost in a state of while the Courts of Rome, France, and Spain, %vele a l leagued against her ; and it was asked if at that time, and under, such circurn stance she would vent lire on a step so important ? She determined to rim the risk. :she was advised by Lotd Burleigh, that the dangers of which she had been warned constituted the reasons which ought to determine her to reform the currency of the country, and tailing to do this, her interests would suffer abroad. Acting on his advice, 'her coutliCt had been the subject of general praise. In the very iearneti work of Lord Liverpool, a re ference had been made to a monumental inscrip tion, in which her conduct on this occasion had been praised. lie bad sought fur it and found it, and perhaps it was tansy, but to him it appeared singularly applicable to the present period. It related the glories of a long reign of 45 years, re corded her claims to the gratitude of her people, and having noticed the brilliant sichievetnents of her reign, in the course of which Spain had been defeated and Holland protected, it added, that above all, (text to maintaining the Protes tant Religion Moneta ad justam valorem se ducta. That above all, money had been restored to its just value ; that she had had the man liness and the courage to restore the ancient standard of the country under 1311 the difficulties with which she had had to contend.—(Hear, hear!) --King William, at the moment he was t engaged in a foreign war, in 1 (W . ), .IH . un,e; taken to reform the silver coin of the tedni. Ibis, too, he resolsed upon at a time when patties run !sigh, and when it was impossible for the Chancellor of the Exchequer to bring forward such a proposi tion without being thwarted. merely for the pur pose of opposition. King William, however, de termined to imitate the conduct of his great pre decessor, and the currency was reformed. He had found the currency debased by about one-third ; he heard all the arguments that were exploded, but his purpose was fixed. )3efore the discussions on this subject were' terminated, he hoped the Members would look at the arguments used on that occasion by Mr. Lowntles, who teas then opposed to the celebrated John Locke. The former contended that a shilling was merely an abstract sign, and that its weight of silver was of no importance—the latter contended that it was necessary the shillings should be of a proper weight—that 62 shillings should weigh a pound, and most fortunately his argument's prevailed., The course of these arguments reminded him of what appeared in the history of Marino's Seri blerus. Martinos being asked what abstract idea he had of a man, gave this reply, " 1 have no abstract idea of a man, i but as the Knight of a Shire or the Burgess of a Corporation,"-7- " But then," said his father " have you no idea of a Lord Mayor I" To this he replied, " that be bad seen but one, and he was decorat ed with furs 'and a gold chain round his neck ; he could not help associating those articles with his idea of a Lord Mayor, and more than, that, as he bad seen the Lord Mayor on horseback, he could not avoid mixing up the horse with them." " I," said the lather, " can not only form an abstract idea of a Lord Mayor without any such accompanyment, but I can imagine him nut only divested 'of furs and gold, bat also wittiont refer ence to his size, eyes, or body."-.--(A Loc'ne, whet to *Ol f()t - ril MI Itlee. of abstract - pound of silver, carried his point, and Mr. Lowndet was obliged to give tip his abstract idea for a solid pound of sager. fie then noticed the a, gninents,used for and against the recoinage of 1695. The former had prevailed, and that they had dime so leas fortunate for the country; and be now called upon the House to say if there were any thing in the present situation of the nation that could prove unequal to an effort like that which was then made. When they were told of a paper currency having contributed to the prospe rity of the country, and forwarded the interest of our manufactures and trade, he would ask if such effects could be looked for from'an inconvertible paper ? He would remiod . those who were so much attached to the present system, this coun try was great before the suspension of Cash Pay ments. It had gaited military glory before the year 1797, and it was not from that period that we wee to date our importance among tiatirins. It we differed trout le her' countries in having a paper circulating utediutti, we also differed from them in this, that we had rigidly maintained public faith, and had even exempted the funds of foreigners, from taxation, when they flew our shores for a /refuge. In our dangers, we hail been cheered by the reflection that our victories had not been gained by any act for which we could feel remorse. This bad cheered us through the dark and desolate period we had passed ; and, now that we, werelanded on the fort her shore, he trusted that we should not part with the companion of our long voyage, but that we should act up to that honourable principle in time of peace which had carried us triumphantly through the wai. On every consideration that could rationally be entertained—on every prin ciple of policy and justice, he telt that we were bound to pay 11. in bullion for the Bank note of 1.1. He then briefly took a view of the cha racter of the Mint ,regolations, to which he could see no solid objection. He understood some persons had had it -in contemplation to pro pose a plan by which the Bank should be.called upon to pay gold in bars at the market price. He would rather see all principle abrogated than see such a principle as that to which he had alluded substituted for that which had hitherto been acted upon. He showed this would vim tually_go to prevent Ow return, or at least the continuance, of Cash Payments. He woold now conclude. The opinions he had this night expressed were oppo site to those on'. whico he bad formerly acted, when in truth he had not tune to give the subject that consideration which it so well deserved ; and if this seatetnent wonid serve to satisfy the House of his sincerity, he had an arduous duty to per form. He was that eight obliged painfully to op pose an authority to which on every occasion but this, where a sense of duty forbad him to give way, he %VHS ready to how with respect and vene ration. But having engaged in the late inquiry, he had been forced to that conclusion winch he had come to on the pi inciple Which °it& to govern the corrancy of this'Country, and as an honest man, he was booed to say, rand he did it without feeling the slightes't shame, his , opinion was changed. He then moved his Resolutions. The three first Resolutions, which are merely declaratory of uncontested facts, were poi and carried. On the fourth being pot, which embo dies the plan for returning to Cash Payments,, Mr. Reeice rose.—He concurred with all the principles laid down by the Right HMI. Gentle man in his very eloquent speech, bitt differed front the Committee as to the remedy which ought to be resorted to in order to carry those principles into effect : he wished not to weaken the effect of that speech in favour of principles - ,vhieb he so highly approved ; they were opposed but by few, and those who opposed them only did so on the ground of present inexpediency, bit without in (heath% the period when it would be less inexpe dient to act upon them. lie took a view of the situation of thecountry from 1816, when the ex. changea were in our tavoor, up to the present time, and traded the difficulties tinder which we ,had now to labour to the plan cit finance brought forward by the Chancellor of the Ex 'chequer in consequence of the favourable state of the exchanges. The trade of the coon. try in 1815 and 1816 he compared with that of the two following'years, and argued that in the latter periodethough the exports were great in consequence of the speculations which had been encouraged, the returns were very ttotavour able to this country. The evils of our currency were only now beginning to make themselves felt, but we should find them increase with every hour till the restoration of the ancient standard of value should he accomplished. if lie differed front the Right Honourable Gentleman as to the particular measure recommen:led by him, and founded on , the report of the Committee, he begged ttgaiti to say that he perfectly agreed with them in the principles which they had avowed, and the first three resolutions had his most cordial ap probation. If in no other way he could ac complish the object in view, lie would go with the Right Hon. Gentleman, but he thought lie saw it better way of remedying the evil. He wished to move that the stint to he repaid to the Batik should be repaid at fixed periods, beginning , in June in the present year. Other amendments he would afteravards propose, to restrain the Bank from making advances but in certain cases to Government, and to allow them to pay their notes in coin or bullion, at their option. Ile should also move for the repeal of the Law re specting the exportation of coin. He concloilad by moving an amendment, which went to pro vide " t o t the repayment of the Bank by monthly instalments of 500,0001. to be regularly paid, be ginning on the 10th of June, 1819." Mr. J. P. GRANT rose to make some observa tions upon the tenour of the original Resolutions submitted for adoption to the Committee. If these were the organs of the sentiments of Ministers, be congratulated the country on so many converts to a new system, for it was not a little curious that they should now have avowed that the connexion with the Batik, upon which they have been acting so long, was bottomed in error. He then took occasion to attribute the absence of gold from this country to the operation of the Mint regula tions respecting silver, and appealed to the vote be bad given on a former occasion, when there were some Resolutions before the House concern- ing the stignorage Of silver, to slew that be bad always been of lie same opinion. Seeir..., then, that these regulations had the effect of deiviog the gold out of the country, wuoiirl ask, whete was the necessity for continuing them, witlmui any apparent rood resniting front thent.l T. ey wele peculiar to this country--they %A. ere unknown to France or any nation on the Con , in' et, d the testimony of Locke, Haeris, ai4 the hoe Earl of Liverpool, proved the bad effects o! 'nem. These writers had laid it down, that tt.ere should be only one. standard of value, and dial where two metals had oeen rated at denominations different from their market prices, the one which had been over-rated would +hive the other oat of the coun try. The Hon. Gentleman then yrocee.ltd !o enter into some calcolations, by which lie showed that under the Mint regulations, a person who buys gold here and sells it on the 0 , 11- tinent, has a profit on it of 7, 4,1. an ( I nure , an d by guying up silver there and selling it here he has also a profit 'iron the latter trans action. Eit! (bell referred to 'be evidence of Mr. Baring and Mr. Harman, taken betore the Lords' Committee, to bear him out "in this assertioM. Ile also quoted from a letttr of Mr. liat man to the Committee, containing a statement of the (trace of gold ill several successive months from 3.11 y 1816, to April 1817, and its relation to the issues oftlbe Bank, concluding from that, that as the issors of the Bank extended, gold rose in its ptice, otid as they were contracted, it was lowered. lle also objected to the mode of ascertainieg the quantity of mercantile I.4ns:fictions petfottned by these notes, by consulting the netnher of them outttanding. These shook] be held, in many cases, only to slew the number of uiscoutirs by the Bank ; and discounts did not 5o touch sheer' the number of toe transactions,. es the menner in which they carried on. Then as to the only arguments in defence of the Mint regulations, namely, the cl.ecks iu tile hands of Government, he addrtss a few words. Ohe of these check% was the cot .. trcul which Government had mitt the eircoialion of silver, by which there torrid never be' an ex cess of it. if there was T i to eee allowed to tom it but themselves. Now, the Committee had al ready recognized the espeditncv of repeating .he law affecting the e'xport.ition of (min, convinced that wullst a profit was held our as an ifldUCPlllent to persous to iotriuge it, they would not eeSl - to do so. Tliere was a profit of 8/ ~e.r cent.' on coining silver, and potions would be found who for this profit would coin it, for in coining from the same metal, utillte the case of the baser metal, throe Was no fear of detection. Again, there was but little security in silver, not being a legal tender for more than 40 shilli , gs, for even so, a person wisi lug to buy op gold with silver may do so, and make no larger payunnts. These considerations induced him to look upon ' the INJint regulations as operating in a great 'bed sore to iitive gold out of the country. The Lion. ' Member concluded with declaring, that if this ex-. periment was now to be made, the stoppage of cash payments, an evil always to be o. ~gored, could not be more dangerous than such an expe riment. Mr. W. POLE said, he fully agreed in every statement made by the Committee in their report, and in the result of the evidence that bad been given before the Committee. It was impossible th a t any thing could be more fair and honest thau the 'conduct of those Geetlemen who composed the Committee, aud, who, forgetting ail party feelings, laboured to do that aleee nbich they considered as conducive to the interests of the country. He should indeed be happy, bad it been possible for the Report of , that ( . ..ommittee, and the Ili solutions founded thereon, to be framed in the spirit of the amendrneet proposed by an Hon. Gentleman oppoite. He bad the greatest respect fir the Directors of the Bank, and he be lieved that they had in every respect acted from the best motives ; but there were two an swers given to certain queries that had been put, which made it necessary to frame the Resolutions in the way in which they had been now broogut forward. As his Right Hoe. Friend had so fully , discussed this part of the subject, he should not trouble the 'House with any more observations upon it. Indeed, there appeared to he a e eperal feeling in the House in favour ot the Rese:utions, and be only now rose in consequence ot some ob servations which had fallen front the Hon. and Learned Gentleman who spoke last, whose ditty, no doubt, it was to deliver h`s sentiments in ifie manner he slid to the House. The sentiments, however, of the Learned Gentleman we-e not new to. hint ; 'they had already been put for ward by a highly respectable and highly gifted individual, who called himself an Old Merchant, and who, in fact, was no other than a Noble Lord, who was distingnished in another House for his great knowledge on subjects of this kind, which he appeared to have cerefUlly studied. He should now state to the House the principle on which the coinage of this countey was esta blished. Before the time of King William, siver was the standard coin ot this realm ; anti although gold was then in circulation, its value was fluctuating and unfixed. The two coins were then - competitors against each other in the'inarket, and one ot them frequently drove the other eel of the market. After the accession of King ‘Vitieee, gold was made the %tendert' coin ; and in 177411te gold coin was reformed. A law then was passed to make the silver coinage a legal tender as tar as 251. The gold wits all recoined, and its value was replated by w'eight ; it thus became the most perfect coin - in the world, and, as Adam Smith observed, it had the effect of turning ail the fo reign exchanges in our favour. Au Act after wards was passed for giving value to the silver coinage, for fieiug its value by weight (ss. 2J. per ounce), and for mekieg it a legal tender to the amount of 251. At that time the amettet of silver in circulation was about three nillions. From 1774 to 1783, , the gold coin never lett the country. It was now objected that Government had altered 'the value ot the silver coieage,'by stating, that 661. in shillings were worth no more than 621. This was a fallacy ; for the silver ccia age was not a legal tender above 405., and the re lative pAces of silver in ILeglend and France never was such as had been stated. By this regulation the Government prevented one metal from clotshing with the other, and had not -44.‘ k