The Sun. — London, England, 1819-11-27 00:00:00

- 1 ,__ PARLIAMENT. IIOIJSE or LCBDS, FRIDAY, Nov. 26. The House met at tour o clock, but there vvas no business before their Lordships ; and without any thing having occurred, they at Five o'clock adjourned to Monday. HOUSE OF COMMONS. The Report of the Commissioners appointed to enquire into the Fees - of the Clerks of Courts was laid on the Table, and ortkred to be printed. A new writ was issued for the Borough of Cam ht;dge, in the room of the Hon. General Finch, uho had accepted the Stewardship of the Chil tern Hundreds. NrtSTATEM ENT. Mr. BONNET complained of a mistatement of his speech, in The Morning Chronicle report of the dehate, on Wednesday, in which he was made to say, that the Yeomanry of Manchester were forced forward without their Commander, Captain fir ley, 'lte dispersion a the Meeting of the 16th. Be had said no such thing ; and nothing could be more painful to him than to give pain unne cessarily to the feelings of.another. Capt• Birley was a Gentleman, who, he knew, had always done his do y, and not done more.—(Hear !) The moment he read the Mistatement, he had written down to a friend at Manchester, request ing him to wait on Captain Birley, and assure him that the report, as to that point, was incor rect. STATE OF THE COUNTRY. Lord ALTKone wished to know tram the Noble Lord opposite (Lord 'Castlereagh), whether it Was the intent in of his Majesty's Government to propose referring the Papers note the posses sion of the House, to the consideration of a Com mi.ree or not ? Lord CASTLERRAGII in answer, observed, that he had on a former night when be alluded to those Papers, stated that it 'Was the intention of his Ma jesty's Minis , ers to found the Legihlative measures which it - was in contemplation to propose on the notoriev of the state of the conntry, together with the information disclosed in these papers, at once, without the necessity of any reference. While on his legs, he took the opportunity of ac tin:tinting the House; that in consequence of not having proceeded to business yesterday, and the - bringing up or the Report being likely to produce •furdier Oisctission; he should-postpone the open ing of the views of Government until Mooday. Lord'ALTHoRP gave twice, that on Tuesday next he should submit a motion to the House (what the ipecific extent he could not then say) for the purpose of referring these papers to a Se lect Committee. CORRUPT BOROUGHS. Lord JOHN - RUSSELL recalled to- the recol lection of the House, the 'notice which he had given towards the close of the last Session, re hoive to certain Resoletions, which it was his intention to propose, affecting the Borough of Gr.oupoond As it wes his present intention to give these Resolutions a greater comprehension, he rose for the purpose of renewing that notice, and fixing a day for the discussion. He had not vet prepared his Resolutions in the precise terms, .but their purport was—that the - Borough of Gram pond should be disfranchised--that the return be transferred to one or two of the opulent unrepre sented towns—t hat the House would consider further into the state of the Boroughs proved to be corrupt--that where the Inajfoity of voters should be found corrupt, such Borooghs should be divranchked—that it was expedient to give the elective franchise to large populous unrepre sen et! towns. In giving this notice, which he fixed for the 14th of Dcember, he trusted the -i; „ ;:7 e would indulge him, while he made a short explanation; . 1 ,.; had gone Abroad, that it was his intention to propose to the c;;;:sideration of Par liament some distinct plan of ParliamenWy Re form. He took, therefore, that opportunity of saying, that he had no such intention ; neither • should he interfere with the duration of Parlia ment—his object-was one of regulation. REPORT OF THE ADDRESS. The Hon. SoMeas CocKs brought up the Re port of the Address ; which having been read, Sir ROBERT WiLsost felt great distress. at re newing a subject which had already exhausted ' the attention of the House; but the great national interests which it involved demanded the sacrifice of all minor considerations. He objected to wild plans of Reform and Universal Suffrage, because he thought them likely to endanger the safety of the institotious which, at the Bar of that House, be had sworn to defend. But whilst he disagreed with the Radicals in opiuion, lie would not push them out of the pale of the Constitution. He felt g reat compassion for them, and so would the House if it put itself in their situation... They read that every man in Free States, voted by him-e self, or through his representatives, for the enact . meet of the laws by which he was governed. Was it not natural that they should yield to. the sug gestions and seductions of those who told them that they were deprived of -that right, and that ' • they should colie forward to claim it ?At the meeting of the 16th of August, the law bad been most flagrantly violated . towards them. Their banners and their notnbets had been objected to ; but had not the statement of the. Honourable Baronet who represented Weotriinster completely removed those objections. Of this the cheers which accompanied that statement gave evident proofs. And with respect to numbers, did not every member who had to present a Petition, feel its importance if it be signed by ten thousand in stead of three hundred. There was other ev7- .. (fence that the people had not come to that meet ing with hostile intentions. They had brought • with them their wives and children, the objects of _ their affections.---(Hear hear l)---They had brottglit with them, the gallantries of peace, and conld not have intended war—(Hear, hear !)—un . ~ less indeed, like the Ancient Britons , it was stip threiml-it e . ?oposed that they bad surrounded themselves with ----410 that waa.dear. to - them, in order to encourage , t iC..<'">• •, ., ' rto the battle, and invigorate their despair. ' is;oher proof of their pacific intentions, was the •, •- , ,10 .:.. : ;i•: .4- .tp: . 4 rt. id t\i i on which they had taken. Had they intended o'VA:,, -.. •-si j:1 Lr t hostilely, would they have stationed them - V ! '''' .- • ' F ---- Y ' ..-• ''' selves in a. cal de sac, a mere mouse trap, where they were surrounded by the military, and where they had. no retreat bet one, and. that- re treatenne where. they were Witted to encounter the advancing cavalry ?- He did nor Contend that the Magistrates might not have dispersed the meeting, - but they ought to have done so accord ing to the forms of the law, .which was tender of the blood of the people.—(Hear !)—The Noble Lord said that they only intended to exe cute Et civil act. Why then did they employ the Military . ? Could tha't he necessary when Nadi') himself, the man most obnoxious to the people, said in the correspondence before . the House, hat be went up and down ,among the crowd' withont any difficul , y ?—He knew that Colonel L'Estrange was a most honourable and distin gnished officer ; it he had ord , red the advance of the cavalry amongst :e body of men, women, and children, he had assumed a great responsibility, for the effects of the mere march of the horses must have been anticipated. Bet he did not be lieve it, and it was due to the character of that officer that an inqniry should be instituted Nadin himself said, that the attack of the cavalry on this occasion had been so rapid that he had not been able to withdraw the constables in time Surely would the House after this refuse to do justice to the people by ordering an ingitily ? The Hon. Member then contended that Atte num lber of wounded, which bad been stated nor to exceed 26, amounted to 151, the names of whom he hoped in a few days to be able to produce. He contended that the Grand Jury had thrown out the bills laid before them, nor h;-cause +hey thought the charges unfounded, hut throngh a misconception of their own power. He main tained that his Majesty's Ministers had be stowed the Royal thanks improperly, as even the papers before the House showed that much had been left untold. He complain-. ed that they had not allowed the . Prince Regent, in his answer to the Common Coned' of London, to introduce a single expression of regret at the loss of lives, although such were to be found even in the letters of Mr. flay himself. He lamented that they should act on the erro neous supposition, that if the Kiog of France het! displayed more vigour at the commeucement of the Revolution, he would have saved his throne. Far front it ; he was convinced,that had the Marquess de Booilly acted at t h e t i m e., instead of rescuing the throne, he would have added to the evils of the times. He was aware that disat tection existed, het it had its root, not in a spi rit of violence and rapine, but iu excessive mise• ry. And bow could. the people be religious and satisfied, whets immorality was encouraged by Government in the practice of lotteries, anti mil: lions mt our fellow creatures were drprived of their rights on the ground of Religion ? ()illy 'one system of Goveroment could he adopted with effect. It was not one of force, but one of law, one of conciliation, connected with that I',lrlia , . mentary Reform, which he bad heard a .1 olge from the Bench, and had gladly heard him re commend, " that should extirpate corruption out of the House, and restore the confidence of the people." Mr. G. LAMB conceived, that if the people could be satisfied with words, they might he pleased with the expressioes of commiseration introduced by his • Majesty's Ministers into the Address. But when they had been omitted on former occasions, why were they now inserted? Whilst every oppor tunity was taken of declaring the loyalty of the subject to the Throne, why did so few declare- Hoes express sentiments of conciliation and pro tection in return ?—(Hear, hear:)—The Address was not exactly,as it ought to- be. The House ought to entry to the foot of the - Throne inure than mere words. They ought to have applied for inquiry. What would be the effect of such an Address as the present in the manufactur ing districts I--They Would read that the House believed in the existence of disaffection, and pledged itself to measures of restriction, but that with respect to their distresses, it contented ' Itself with expressing a barren hope that they might prove temporary ! Was this calculated to tranquillize their minds and soothe their feelings ? He was near the spot shortly after the meeting of the 16th of August, and had seen many re spectable people who bad a perfect knowledge of all that had passed at that meeting. The result' of the information which they had given him, was a conviction on his pair that no resistance was opposed to the reading of the Riot Act by the Magistrates, and that no attack was made on the yeomanry before the cry of " have at their flags"— (Hear, hear !)—This was certainly a time when assertions might safely be made on both sides, for that inquiry was denied which might display their truth. He called the attention of the House to the appalling situation in which the town of Manchester and the country were placed by the refusal of all inquiry.. Individuals who had lost their dearest friends or relations in the events of the 16th, had still looked with hope' to that House, notwithstanding all the declamations and publications .ot the Radicals. What would be their feelings when they, should learn that their hope w-s disappointed ? They would examine the proceedings of the House, and expect some fact to have been stated, or some argument used, of sufficit nt power to justify the denial of inquiry. But on looking at the speech, of the Noble Lord opposite, which night be considered as the polar star that guided the late majority, would such facts or reasonings appear ? They would find it stated that the Magistrates had issued no positive orders to the Yeomanry to strike the people. IVIto then would they consider as the authors of their injury ? He contended that it was most improper to have employed the Yeomanry, who, unlike the regular military force, were con nected by many ties to a particular town, and were thus compelled to spend their lives, where they were surrounded with the resentment and inslignation of the people. The injured indi viduals were told, that an indictment lay against Hunt, and they must look to him for satisfaction. But they would answer that his prosecutors were the Magistrates, who were parties to the trans action. When such prosecutors found that they could not make out the case against - the .accused without exposing themselves, was it net to he ex pected that they would prefer Sacrificine•justice to , their owe security ? It was said that the question ought to he /nought before a law lithunal, instead i of undergoing general inquiry in the House.— But there was one part, and that not the least im portant, which no Court of Justice could reach ; he meant the ceinduce of Ministeresin the trans action.—(Hear, hear:!)--eThe case 'Of the Magis• trates and Yeomanry was very different ; the one might be justified at the expence of the other ; but his Majesty's Mitiisters bad approved the conduct of both, and thus assumed the responsibility of the whole on their own shoulders.—(Hear, hear, hear !)--When the want of means to prosecute was urged, the House were told of a subscription going on in the Metropolis and other places to afford those means. It thus turned out that that subscription, which the Ministerial Press had so misrepresented and abused, was, after all, the only means that remained to be insured for seeking re dress.—(Hear, bear, hear the vote of the night helot e last, be had entertained no doubt that an inquiry would be granted, but now that it was denied, he would give his mite to the subieription, and he thought the Honourable Gentlemen on the other side hound to do the same.—(Hear, hear, hear !)—They asserted that • the Courts of Law were the only places where the sufferers ought to . apply, and where justice could be ob tained ; they ought therefore to contribute to enable them to make the application. On his side of the House it we's an act of liberality; on theirs it would be one of justice —(Hear, hear, hear !)—lf they objected to the persons who had the management of the fund, let them set on toot Ministerial subscription of their own for 'the S4tnE` object, and he pledged himself to sub• scrih .—alear, heat ! and laughter.)—He was serious, and appealed to the Gentlemen opposite whether it was not proper that they should do that by private generosity, which they had pre. veered by their nubile vote.—(Hear, hear, hear !) He recommended that measures of conciliation 'mild be adopted towards the people of Man chester. He was well acquainted with several of the Magistrates, and therelcre experienced .sotne difficulty in speaking about their conduct. Of he stipendiary Mag i Irate of the place, how ever, the Learned and Rev. Mr. Norris, he would say. that was his belief, that a man with a kinder heart did not walk the earth. But if the proceedings of the 16 Ir August were really di rected by Mr. Norris, it be bad not suffered liimself to be over-etileit by others, he must then; for that day, have altered hi natere,(-Heer, bear, hear!) The Honourable Member then elamed th e man ner in which the proceedings before the °Mem Coroner had been snspended, after having com menced with manly coefidence. He reprobated a certain Magistrate, for having taken upon himself at Manchester, the part of a Wand and a Petty Jury, and pronounced on the innocence of a per son accesed before him. He asked whether any Lawyer in the House would say that Meagher's case was not one which ought not to he disposed ot by a Magistrate, but ought to have been sent before a Jury I—(Hear, bear !)—He reprobated any increase of the army in the midit of peace. It was now too late to talk of the glories of the war ; it was time to feel the blessings of peace.— (Hear, hear !)—What had that triumphant w - er bequeathed to us ?• Barren glories and gagging bills ; the latter of which, introduced during its course, were now to be renewed,—(Hear, heat;)_ For what objects had that war been undertaken ? Fur what purpose had the triumphs of our great Commander been achieved ? Other nations had found in him a defender ie war ; let his own find in hint a defender in peace.--e(Hear, heat !) One of the objects of the contest was to put down republican principles. How had that ob• ject been effected ? He would not answer the question ; but let the Address proposed by his Majesty's Ministers speak. Did it not say that .republican principles, irreligion, and blasphemy ; were current among the people, • and vended in every shop ? ,It was thus that the great end of war had been attainetl.--(llcer, hear !)—The confidence of the country was lost : it could only be restored by such Retorm in Parliament as would produce an efficient Representation in the State. 01;e of the worst signs of the times was the want of confidence in all public men; and this arose frotn the conduct of his Majesty's Mini. sters, and of the Magistrates themselves. Their speeches and measures tended to reduce other • public men to their own level, and in that he be lieved they bad succeeded. •They were, in fact, the worst of all levellers.—(Hetir !)—He conjured them, as they bad declared in their Address the great majority of the people to be loyal,- to pause before they injured and insulted that majority by measures of restriction, and deprived them of those weapons and arguments, by which they could best counteract the disaffected.—(Hear, heat., hear !) Mr. BOOTLE WILBRAHAM entered into some explanations of what he had said on a former night, in the course of which he stated, that lie believed the motives of the leaders on the 16th of August to have been nothing more than the re view of their army, and the intimidation produCed by its numbers. To the whole of the multitude, God forbid that be should attribute improper in tentions, but there was a body amongst them • whose object was plunder. Milieu he said plun der, he did not mean immediate violence and rob bery, but he meant what hail been expressed in the Declaration-of the Grand jury at Lancaster, an intention to reverse the order of society, and to wrest by force from its present owners all the property of the country. As to the num ber of persons admitted into the Infirmary, he had only mentioned the in-door patients, who did not exceed twenty-six ; and the out-door cases, he believed, thirty eight ; but the sufferers com prised several who had been wounded. subse quently, and an unfortunate Chelsea Pensioner, who had died in consequence of the injury which lie had received from the mob. With respect to the first attack having been made by the Yeomanry, he had looked carefully over all the papers, and the result was, an impression that the people had been the assailants. The con flicting nature of the evidence, however, Con vinced him of the impropriety of an inquiry in the House, as it was only in a Court of Justice that oaths could be administered, anti the real truth obtained. It had been Laid that the - Ma gistrates ought to be dismissed, and a dismissal would certainly cast S :dolt upon diem. But those very Magistrates tad for months re" formed the most meritorious services. Notions' in fact, had prevented them from executing th eir duty, thotgli they met with so uegrateln/ r e ' turn. h was one consolation to t eoeseeers that those who knew their merits c them PI P ' Lice, and that their conduct had een wen* tioned in strong terms of approbation in the Ad' dress presented to the Prince Regent on the stf!f7 l jest of the Manchester transactions, and signet' by all the respectable inhabitants of that too• MreDaNISAM had come prepared to argn w e the legality of the Manchester 11.1eeting. As lie founds however, that a Noble Lord (Lord Abhor p) given notice of a motion on the subject 44114 the Manchester Papers, he should delay explaining ., grounds on which his opinion was founded, till that question come before the House. He s houla at present only add, that he never could agree to an Address which .entirely overlooked the greatest offence that bad yet been committed against th • Constitution—(Hear, hear!)—tending in the molt" direct mariner to establish military despotisme o the more dangerous as. it was defended on pritt' ciple.—(Hear., hear, hear !)—He could never agre e to an Address, which did not even contain 01 expression , of regret at the calamitous results a the dispersion of the meeting, whilst it carried to the foot of the Throne the acquiescence of House in measures of restriction.—(Hear, hear I) Mr. SHEPHERD had thought himself bound b/ every principle, of justice to vote against al l amendment that tended to excite a vexatious in' quiry, and excite an unfounded prejudice ag sitist the Magistrates. For if an inquiry were tes ta i tutcd, the impression on the public mind wolf be, that the Magistrates were guilty. He c°l; tended the; the meeting was clearly illegal' Ald was in itself a riot.—(leer, hear, hear !)—lt ho been so decided repeatedly, and by two Judges% the Bench, whose authority wonld have sol; weight. Lord Holt had declared, " shat per assembled in iminhers, in ter rorune popati, it c ° ,!,.; stituted a Het." Art's were not toce s,ary' numbers sopplied their place; and cooed ther e any doubt that 100,000 pee solis a ..s e mbledsag I Manchester, even without arms, se,,idd efe eieul°, , l terror than 4 armed individuals. J n.ige Forsier on that subject, that " numbers supplied the kW; - of military weapons, and made it a riot." But el t i sup.posiug the Manchester Nieetiag not to fla il heen was sutlictent that It was an ill assembly justify its dispersion. —With fest' ito eg to the manner in which it liad'hecu dispersedeL meas surprised t o hear the Magistrates Mewled T o having employed the yeomanry inereart of L o t ntilitaty. The . yeoman' y was the Cont W oo Force of the Country. it supplied the place of to posse comitatus, when the latter were neat/led execnte their duty, and was therefore most fi , the service in which it had been empirled• by then contended that restrictive laws woo better than 'the abuse of the right of tec et,e bi which produced such terror. He urged c o l necessity of checking the advance ref psfY a tumult in its earliest stage. It kV f 4 0,1, that the remedy could be Successfully If it was dclsyed till the whole body wee 0 , feeted, it could have no effect.• H uce f t i,s gistrates had done right in eeppressiug ad meeting as soon as. they did. It had heel; that Christianity was the religion of LihertYl i .•,,, was so ; but of liberty founded on law, sui t ', specting the rights of individoals.—(Heo r It was incumbent on the House to pass some 74, to prevent the publication of blasplismorte , In every Republic there had been laws to reg Ali t he the press. They were necessary, for it sowe d t ee teeth which might spring up armed setts, " o re present case, he bad no doubt, that could a' frill ing man become the leader, and acquire ( b e ds . confidence of the disaffected, those armed srt) would 'non spring up in our own land.— l`" Air. MARTIN (of Galway) felt as ninon ws Honourable Member opposite for the mdse l ose who had suffered in the dispersion of the os tS chester Meeting- It was proper t o feel fur o' °l o o , and children, arid to make up for the injtir iel o ceived was an honourable example worth,' t es ti followed. it was well to assist women wit a oe' been deprived of the aid of their (Laughter)—to put money nod sustetrauce:o4o their mouthe—(Lnagliter)—for a few I“, e st 0 would be more usehil and more grateful t° ' l Ol than all the mouthing speeches which 114 heard. An Honourable Baronet opposi ( A e ol itto surely not dealt in these alone. He had, 0° " 1 , adopted the families which had been pbans, and his conduct would be imit4le( his friends !—(Laughter !)—Sttch a rente d Y weepbe more effective than to talk of relieet4 1011 by a Parliamentary Inquiry The l it meat of the military had been blamed; A t fit° hoped that no laWyer would contettunrjel the military were wrong for obeying the "rejig of the Magistrates. 'What • s uhstantih l . 4i ,01 could be derived to the sufferers from an 1 : 11 „.4 in the House ? Could the House Commit '-certiP ways as the Court of King's Bench ? N°„4- 141.,1 it award damages to the complainan , s A l if fi V should be less inimical to such an 400 0 1 f ee ' only useless; but it might inflict a Mut t , so 10 l s injury upon a man to be obliged - to disci.°,lll e il ease at the Bar of the House, where it • 01 ' f n terwards be met by the foulest suborna!'ut rte 4 perjury.—( Hear, hear_!)—The most 11".1,1: gfie, judicea might be created against iiirn• 7 his fo, that it was said the prejudice might run 11 a nd b J - your; but that was a clumsy r easonioF , _ o d e / thought no prejudice of any kind should 173liese: on either side.—(Hear.) —But the prei_ ' O OOl the people did not orieinate in their r n o otic,' o they were the absurd imagining of tbet th P e 'o l ' o Mentors. They would tell you, di ° , en seS were used to pay the unnecessary exPentobetir, Court—to maintain placemen P - i e ( 01 and speaking . oh that subject with t hem . Martin) had always been told, that % ttd view of the taxes that most of all exsoP e t ix ,estf a ie Let the Gentlemen on the opposit e , ; _perP,o the people of Manchester, or ern, : id of who, like them, held such opinion! , ‘ ol ...aer.",er revenue of thes e expences" woolt-Ihee'etel 1) purchase them a breakfast, Ter t .' 4 3 abolition of all the sinecures that eN''4eiegj•ei ~ l ea provide them with a pair of shve any other comforts. An H0n...9f?A. 1 . 0 '0,0 0 ' Lamb) had said, that one: i'049,-;;01; <.;: , fog for as inquiry, arose f;ria c°l" r„ :,;, trh, 'i tti t