The Sun. — London, England, 1819-05-21 00:00:00

be cooteoted with •a ditty of cui. per chaldronnu coals. In the reign of Elizabeth it was increased to is. per chaldron upon nil coals ; and in the days of Charles the Second it ..vas considerably i-creased, from which ditty Sir Thomas Clark re ceived 500!, a-year. In the time of William it was further augmented to ss. per chaldron, by stay of a temporary duty for the improvemeot of the resources of war. By the . 911) of Queen Anne, there was a further additional duty of 3i. per chaldron. The t last aio4niewations were rendered perpet nal by an Act of George I. ; and by the•Ajth of George lli. a Rcgula , ion Bill was pa;sed, imposing upon London 9;. 4d. per-chal dron, and tis. on 41 the out-ports. The ditty for the fornier place alone amounted to 12s. 100. per thaldron, being a salt of consolidat.on, including meterage, on that necessary of life. Great part of the Lute 'om coal duty tear attached to what was tet wed the Orphans' Fund. He thd not mean to speak disrespectfolly of that charity or any • other. His whole object was to move for the re peal of the whole duties, in order to propose some other plan equally beneficial to the public re venue. lo corroboration of his sentiments, the lion. Member quoted Dr. Adam Smith,/ and Dr. Anderson. He thou ;ht it exceedingly hard, that coals carticdcoastways should pay a heavy ditty, while coals carried inland pay no duty at all. But some Gentlemen said, that if this duty be repealed, it would ruin vast numbers of manu facturers, by producing manufacturers at or near London, who would rival or unde - sell those in the inland- counties. They had all, no donht , their local attachments atol - Local prejti dices. The present duties not only affected L":1(10'1, but all the . counties enrcurnjacent, paniculatly ,hat to which he belonged (Sur- rey). There were sixteen counties that paid the treaty ditties now complained of, while twenty counties paid no duties whatever. In our popu lation, it might be said, that our of nine mil lions, tour millions ,and a half pay 865,0001, nearly 1,000,0001. sterling, while one tour millions and a half pay no duty. As an argument on the part of those who opposed his proposition, it hail been advanced, as no small consolation, o.hat II the wages in London were higher; but it ought ! at the same rate to be recollected, that the du ties in London are higher also and that the roar man frequently pays 12d. more per bushel fur coals, than the rich man• At one time he was taught to believe, that not only some men of in flueoce in that 'louse, but 'hat thi; Chancellor of the Exchequer himself, considered favourably of his proposition. Butt when he found that ibis view of the subject on his part was all delosion, all false hopes, he resolved at once to bring' it forward in the shape of a repeal. • Gentlemen who knew the constituents of that House, and of what it was composed, need not be surprised ,that such a proposition would create a hose of formidable enemies; all hi co-operation for their own individual interest, without any regard to that of the public. lu noticing those who had declared hostility against the measure, he bestow ed many high encomiums on Mr. Crashaw, who, front very small beginnings, 'lnd acquired a princely fortune by his iron-foundry, and that by the most faithful fulfilment of every moral obli gation. But is it in the, wisdom or justice ct the Lioase, that because they hail borne these. duties so long patiently, that they were Dever to - be, released' from their buMen % The people of Birmingham complained, that if the duties are taken off coast ways, the whole maonfactures of that important place would be transferred to London ; but this was a mere hypothesis unfounded in experience. The evil of which be trots , complained had already reached suck a niagniude as to demand an ittuntoliate re nedy. It . was not the application of philosophi cal • principles which could afford those aggrieved relief. They must have a radical removal of the cell. Scotland he did not mean to include in his general proposition, so that the Gentlemen of that country need not entertain any apprehensions of an innovation. The Chancellor of the Exchequer bad referred to him for a substitute, should he con§ent to the n►easure. Let him first carry his ntotion and then sotnethiog might be suggested erutilly productive. The Hon. Member concluded by moving in substance for leave to bring in a Bill to repeal so witch of the remit law as [dates to the Duties on Coals. Lord , EnutNoroN stated, that as the [lon.„ Mover had gone so fully and so ably into the sub ject, he thought that there was very little lett for hind to induce tire House to agree to the motion. In the counties of Devon and Cornwall alone, the duties averaged 70,0001. a year, and the chief part of it iiTas defrayed by twelve ports its those two counties. Th e consumption of coals was not general in Devon and Cornwall, but confined to, a small portion of the population. The duties were so oppressive in those two counties, that se veral manufacturers had been ruined. A china manufacture had been lately attempted at Ply mouth, hut in consequence of the Iteaty duty on coals, had failed. As the duty on Coal affected the manure, it consequently affected the growth of .cot ; therefore it operated as a direct tax on agriculture. Mr. LITTLBToN confessed he was not a little surprised that the Member for Surrey should have brought forward a proposition hostile to our sys tem Finance, When the Minister and the House were anxious to improve it. In his censure of the duty on sea coal, or,coal carried cost ways, he proceeded by a grand retrograde movement to the remote times of Rkhard H. With all this 'fine display of le,arning in the historical account of the coal duties, he had better confined himself to the time of the Revolution, when those dirties first began to be modified into a regular taxation. To agree to the Hon. Gentleman's proposition would be great injustice to many respectable chit ra.'tet 4 who had embarked large capitals in , t•artaut -national concerns. He enumerated the counties that would be effected by the i,,,oosed change, and those that would not feel L. lie insisted, that the grand projectors of the 7.•;!<;:mtire had been.much disappointed ; that their .ing at Thorn's Coffee-house and other places :10t been productive of the petitions expect . !eithei• bad they been able to obtain one , ninsier. Not having moved for !ht: of the non►erout petitions which i.;&(!ated against any alteration imi the du- tics, the Hon. Member took to himself some cre dit for having made such a saving to the public ; aed he th o oght that if the same hoe of conduct were folloa-ed by other Gentlemen, the expenee of prhoing, which had in the last tew years in creased iocredibly, might he kept within some reasouable'bouods. It might not be courteous to oppose 4 measure at its very commencement, but he thought himself called upon by public duty to oppost• the motion. Alderman ',Vona saw the flan. Mover and his Fri-nos bet we4n two fires—between the Chancellor of the Exchequer and those who de clared themselves hostile to the motion. I,Vhile i iitnierly the Chancellor of the Exchequer had gi‘en them hopes, he now left them to be attack ed by the Member for Stafford and others who opposed the cause. The coals in Devon and Cornwall were often carried twenty or thirty miles iniatid at vonsiderahle expence, in addi riot) to the excessive duties. 'I here appeared Such a monopoly of coals in certain counties, that the maoulacturers it necessary, for their own supply, to heroine proprietors of coal t»iues. The worthy Alderman bestowed many et - wondrous on the lion. Mover, who he hoped would allow hint to be called his lion. Friend. lie had very ably d. tailed the rise and progress of the coal duties, and notwithstanding "the ridicule Of some Gentlemen, he was perfectly right to go back to the days of Richard the Second, when the duties first had a tangible shape. To have confined himself to the Revolution would tiot have been sufficiently illustrative With re gard to the duty itself, as a matter of finance, he did not care whether it was taken off or not ; hut let there be some equalization ;—let the - whole country be charged-at the rate of 6s. per coal dron. But he called ttpon the Chancellor of the Exchequer to say why , he favoured one county mote than another ? Why did he favour Wales more than Cornwall ? In the latter place, the poor man had frequently not been able to earn more than 2s. a week, and yet he was to be bur- thened, by the oppression of his superiors, t , rough ti,e medium of the unjust and abominable duty on coals. Ue had known instances in Which the poor of the City of London bad paid 7s, per bushel for coals: fie did not care bow the tax was imposed if it were made equal. Colonel WOOD would rather take the,law as at present. Welsh coals were exported duty free, because they were stone coals, fit only for burn ing lime. This was a relief granted to the dis trt!ssed agriculturists. It was a pity that the Hon. Mover had not named his substitute. It might do great good to mention it, in the present. _dis tressed state of the finances.—(A laugh.)—He could !lame a Taa, the removal of which-would much relieve the Hon. Mover's constituents as well as his own.—(Mr.. H. Scanner, 7 Name, name.")--A mitigation of the duties on salt. He could name another.—(Mr. H. Sumner, " 0 l don't." This produce:l notch mirth.)—ln Surrey they ~ ere obliged to get their candles from the tailow-chandler's. in his . part of the country, it was a little illegal, but most' peop'e made their own candles.-=(Great laughter.)—But the con sequence was, that every offended neighbour, and every dismissed servant, gave information, and the exciseman was upon them. A reduction of this Tax -would We a relief. The Property 'fax bad been most actively opposed by the City of London, yet be thought it much better than those Taxes which demoralised the poor ; but it had been shaken off the shoulders of the rich, while the poor were left to groan under their burdens. He should still 'be for a Property, not an Income 'fax, which would make it possible to modify the Assessed Taxes, and relieve the lower orders,—(Hear !)—lf a duty were laid on Coals to the amount,of 2s„ it would raise the price of iron 205., and the inhabitants of the mountains of Wales would be deprived of their only employ ment. When a subject like this had its ramifica tions every where extended, no man could tell the consequence of touching_ one branch. Among the petitions was one from the Lord Mayor, in which coals were called an article of life. This petition made mention of the Port of London. This was an extraordinary Port. Up the Thames, down the Thames, sea-borne, or- carried from Bt eutford, Irmo Gresvenor-square,- or from lij liogsgate; you were in the Port of London. A great stone, 500 yards above Staines, marked the -boundary of the Port of London, Three years ago, a Custom-house Officer was left upon this large stone at Staines, and there he had been ever since.--.(Laughter )--A boat load of coals had been coming from the Principality,' hot was in tercepted by this worthy officer, w.ho drove it back, and thus prevented any Welsh coal from coining to London. If this stone were put up at London Bridge, where it ought to be, th e , citi zens of London mould then have other coal cheaper than the Newcastle coal. He tholight that this question had gone to sleep, but unfortu nately he was mistaken ; he must, therefore, give his decided negative to the motion, Alderman Woof) explained. • Mr. 4Y. CoURTENAY was in favour of the mo tion, on account of the severity with whic h the present tax pressed upon hi s Contituents at Exe ter, and the internal parts of Devonshire. Lord MILTON opposed the repeal of the tax as it notv stood; and contended, that nothin4 could he more unjust and impolitic than its equalization. The City of London propOsed to take off the Par liamentary duty, but intended to keep that which went to their own funds. Stich was the patrio tim of the City of London ! The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER -had al ready expressed his opinion, when petitions for the repeal of the tax had been presented. He should have felt inclined to recommend to the House, and to the Honourable Gentleman who had brought the motion forward, to suffer the subject to sleep, as it was likely to create much local irritation to no purpose, for it was evident that circumstances would not allow of its being admitted. The finances of the country required to be watched with pechliar care, that no di minution might take place in our resources.-- This was now no time when taxes could be taken off. It became necessary, on the contrary, to see how we could add to the revenue of the country. \He then contended, that rite Metropolis had been al!eady relieved to the full amount of the existing duty, by the tall which had Wan place in the price of coal,r. In 1814 theN f t were 625. a chaldron, an d, in 1818, - only 485., which afforded relief to the amount of 14s. per ebaidron. He objected to the motion, and thought the interests of the country would be best promoted by suffering the subject to rest. Mr. LAMBTON expressed his surprise and sor 'row at hearing the Right Hon. Gentleman not only refuse to repeal a partial and oppressive tax, hut announce that it. would be necessary to itn poge fresh Impost's upon the country. She was already•burthtoned more heavily ,than She could bear, and he should resist - , as far as his humble abilities extended, any attempt to increase her taxes. ,He supported the original motion. With respect to reviving the Income Tax, as had been recommended by an Hon. Member opposite, he trusted that the present Parliament was not one in which such an impost could be carried ; _and that not withstanding - the taunts thrown out on the subject, its proposal would be attended with certain defeat. Colonel WOOD explained that he recommended a Property and not an Income Tax. Mr, DICKENSON opposed the motion. To lay a tax on go,;l at the mouth of the pit, would be to tax every article of necessity throughout the country. _ Mr. SINCL AIR rose in the mids , of cries of ques. tine. He should not stiffer himself to be put down by she Noble Lord who represented the County of Donegal, and endeavoured to prevent him from fulfilling his duty to his Constituents by the clamour he had raised.—(Order Order !) Lie then strongly opposed the motion. Lord MOUNT CHAKLAS having been personally alluded to, appealed to the Chair whether the language used by the Hon. Member was Parlia mentary language, and must request an apology from him to the House. Mr. SINCLAIR. was understood to say, that ha did not think an apology nccessary. The SPEAKER stated, that if any Gentleman thought t►imself unfairly interrupted, he ought to appeal to the Chair, and not to private indivi duals. The Hon. Member must be conscious that he had acted wrong in adopting the .latter . course. Mr. SINCLAIR stated, that it - wa3 not his in tention to be personal towards any Hon. Meat : . her. His eagerness to express the wishes of his constituents, had betrayed him into a degree of warmth, for which he was . ready to offer any apology the House might thinkfFroper.—(Hear !) Mr. Alderman WAITHMAN spoke strongly in favour of the motion. Sir J. SEBRIGHT entered his protest against the tax, as partial and unfair, and thought that if it could not be spared, it should he equalized. .11Jr. MAXWELL opposed the motion. After some observations from Sir M. W. Ridley. Mr. Wilmot, Mr. Ellice, Mr. Bennet, Mr. Pro t heroe, Mr. Alderman. Wood, Mt. Byng, Mr. Hart Davies,. Mr. HoLD.te SUAINUR replied, and the House , divided. ' Ayes 49 Ntdes Majority against the Motion.. -in INSOLVENT DEBTORS' ACT. Lord ALTHORP said, he rose in pursuance to the wishes 61 the Committee, to move for leave to hying in a Bill to amend the Insolvent Debtors' Act. He apologized to the House for having brought it forward before the Report of the Committee was laid on the table; but it was the wish of the Committee, that, before the Bill came to be discussed, it should be in the hands of Members, and its merits. sufficiently judged of, before it passed into a law. He wished to make the House and the country understand the principles which this Bill contemplated. According to the old law between debtor and creditor, the individualvontracting - debts was kept in prison till those debts were paid ; but the grievances pro duced by this inflexible rigour rendered it neees sary to pass temporary Insolvent Debtors' Acts, which, however, were frequently abused. Th e Noble Lord then adverted to the passing of the Insolvent Debtors' Act, properly so called, and went into an exposition of the abuses of it, with regard to persons concealing their property, end otherwise eluding the provisions of the law. To counteract these abuses, he should propose t h at an examination should take place out of Court, be fore it took place in Court, and that there should be in the Insolvent Debtors' Court three Com missioners instead of one. He shoilld also pro pose, that the claims of such creditors as had not proved their debts within a certain time should not be taken into consideration, and that the deb tor be obliged to claim the benefit of the Act within 14 days after his arrest, otherwise that he should forfeit, it. The next measure he should propose was, the abolition of fees in the Court in every instance. The Noble Lord, after sonic other observations, Moved for leave to bring in a 'Bill for the Relief of the Insolvent Debtors in England. Mr.WaITHMAN, though he doubted not that the Bill proposed to be brought in had been framed in conformity with the Report of the Committee, and though he might approve of some of its pro visions, did not think he. could approve of the measure altogether. The CHANCELLOR Of the EXCH 'MUER, to ac complish an object so important as that alluded to by-the Noble Lord, would not oppose a moderate increase of expence. He approved of the prin ciple on which the present Insolvent Debtors' Bill had been originally brought in, but he did not recollect any measure that had more completely failed. When it was - seen from the papers on the table what an enormousatnountofptopettyhad been swallowed by• its operation, he must confess he could not understand how the trade of the country could sustain such a loss without being utterly ruined, If be could contribute to make the Bill about to be brought in more perfect than it might be at present, he should be_ happy to co-operate with the Noble Lord. After a few worth from Mr. Hurst, Mr. Har vey, Mr. W. Courtenay, Sirl.Newport, and Mr. L. Forster, leave was given to bring in the Bill. Lord ALTHORP afterwards brought in the new Insolvent Dehtors' Bill, which was read a first, and ordered to be read a second time to-morrow se'nnight, and to be printed. POOR SETTLEMENTS. Mr. CRIPPS, after several observations upon th complication of the law with regard to Poor Settlements, moved f or l eave t o b r i ng in a Pig l to amend it, st a ti ng , t h at hi s object wa g to r‘ „ r o i , der the bona fide ren t p a id, t h e proof of "li le r ne :he tenement of 101. w year, by whicb the P afi ii i o , was to gain his settlement. He wished tlie.' ~, to lie over until next y ear , t h a t t h e Counuilfr. might adopt it if they thought proper. ~„,a ' Mr. S. ,BOURNE said, th a t h e had canon the Members of the Committ ee , an d that th e y , had intended to introduce a measure of this k i •- rj ! i, • as their , more enlarged views bad not been sal" • factory to the H ouse , t h ey / i nten d e d t o COnu a themselves to minor matters of regulation. 11 , Mr. CRIPPS, in consequ e n ce , agree d t° 'vit a draw his m o ti o n, th at t h e Bill m i g h t original, with the Committee. Mr. HARVEY moved for a Return of the ntlill ber of informations filed in the Co u rt o f Exche'r er for the rec o v er y o f pena l t i es un d er t h e Cusf°l-"a, and Excise Laws, from the Ist January ISA to the Ist January 1819.—Ordered. BANK AFFAIRS. Mr: GRENFELL gave notice that be woad to; morrow move for they production of a P a per giv,e s into the C omm i ttee o f 1807 , re l at i ve to the prt'llt divided by th e B an k, w hi c h b e h a d undersind , • was to he pri n t e d i n t h e appen di x to - t he lis n . Committee Report, but w hi c h h a d b y sotto OW, dent been omitted, FEVER IN IRELAND. . Sir J. NEWPORT said, that he would on 1 4 ° n. day move for leave to bring in a Bill for the bet' ter prevention of contagious fevers in Ireland- FOREIGN ENLISTMENTS. - Tile ATTORNEY-GENERAL brought in B lii" to prevent the enlistment of . in the" service of forei g n P owers w i t hout b l i ; Majesty's license.—The Bill was rep! a first, a % ordered to be read a secon d t i me on that ( l I I' fortnight. hi; Maj es ty's st,hject.s_ REPAYMENT OF THE BANK. Mr. CALLAGHAN having s e en an art i c l e in 8 1 311 i per, with regard to a r e -p a y ment to t h e Bank ten millions, begged to ask the Chancellor of ('? Exchequer if such a payment were con terniAtife, The- public mind was qu i te a li ve , an d sensiiive so, on such a s u bj ec t, an d h e t h ere f ore begge d the Right Hon. Gentleman would state the feet' ' if it were so. Sir J. NEWPORT objected to such a goest i°a : - and thought un aut h or i ze d statements i n a Newi; paper should no t b e ma d e a subject of que 3 t i°ll- h . that House. He enter e d his protest against stfl things, and trusted they n e ver would be tolera te They exposed the Mi n i s t er , w h et h er h e answere, or not, mangy other exclusive of their b e i ng li a ble to ° d other objections. Mr. GRENFELL coincided in the oliserg!.--- a the Right Hon. Baronet, and added, the rt,e; solutions on the. T a bl e com pl ete ly disproved t u , statement, or were, at all events, %holly sil et3 " . on the subject. tAitip Mr. CALLAGHAN was proceeding to exp.- when— The SPEAKER observed, lie believed it was -- first time a question had been' asked of a Minister ; founded o n a newspa p er p aragra ph, an d the great inconvenience which would result I. o "'w th e allowance of such a practice. .do The CHANCELL OR of the EXCH E QUER ligee ) he had seen much in that P a p e r (The t." .7 "„ r " which he enti re ly disaprovedof and f e lt the 13. , d piety of the observations made on the 1 - 1 011 ., (5e" 14 tletnau's questi on , f rom the other si d e House„ Nothing should be considered ° inc .. ° unless what appeared in the Gazette. OA The Scotch Poor Relief Bill was read a Seca time and passed. FINES ON TOWN LANDS. A c t) The House w en t i nto a C omm i ttee on the relative to Fines on Town Lands. The CHANCE LLOR O f th e E XCHEQUE R h ed stated the outline o f a Bill w hi c h he proPa s Ao to bring in. I n thi s i t was i nten d e d to pro vi that an armed P o li ce s h ou ld h e su b st ituted 0 the Military half the expence to be b°r fi nt by the Government, the whet half by th , ? C" — {o in which it was stationed. measure 0 ,„: 4 0, take effect till after the Summer Assizes in l' eas .. It was to be provided that the present SY l i e, might he continued in force in particular Con t l ets on application to the Lord Lieutenant. Th e , l3 l for encouraging small stills he thought ,WcP"`" better carried into effect by a distinct tneasur e i e d He moved that the Chairman should be instru c l o to move for leave to bring in a Bill to liel if r ot operation of au Act i m p os i ng fines on town e inireland. • le Sir J. NEWPORT thou g ht t h e mea sure r'° a prove most injurious in every respect. He PF i l . to that his expectatio n s m i g ht not b e rea lized. x wished the me a sur e might p ro d uce the W e e which the Ri g ht H on . G en tl eman see med to peet from it ; _but with the view he took of rl project, he could nut do other than give it lr most absolute dissent. An animated discussion ensued, in w hich , - ro r Chichester, Mr. V. Blake, Sir J. S tua rt, .G ell r e i c i. Hart, Mr. Hutchinson, Lord . Mount-Cl is. Mr. French, Sir N. Colthurst, the Ch a ncello r ite r the Exchequer, and Mr. Fo r b es , t oo k part which' the Resolution was agreed to. oit The House then resumed, and leave sues g ,2 to bring in the Bill. The other Orders of the Day were dispos e d and the House adjourned at lIALF-PAST [The House of Lords did not meet Yesterdall B. On the 17th inst. at Stone h IRTH ouse, near Plymouth, th e ,t DS of Sir John Gt'irdon Sinclay , of a daughter. MARRIED. ' Sab i On.Wednesdav, the 19th lost. at Great Waltham. - t ; Tysson Tyled, Esq. uldest son of Sir 'John 'fyrell, P ar ol d Boreliani-lionse. Essex, to Miss Pilkinaton. da o =l. kte t. r ...rett co-heires4 of the late Sir ThotnasPilkingt"on, Bart. (;"- Yorlishire. . , PIED. from' On the 2.3c1 January, at sea, on her passagesto , Bengal, Fanny, the wife of Licut.-Col. C urn herlege• lic 00114 On the 29th of April, at Nice, of a deep decline, t k. nt William Brodric ine e On Monday, the 17th inst. at Blackheath, age d Litchfield, Leg. late of his Majesty's l'fivy Count h Whitehall --- -----_,_ -__ r -- -- - - - - -- - - -- LONDON: Printedby J. B.'CARSTAIRS, of No- 49' 1-- avr o , A • Ormond-street, Cl:wen-square; and publish ed 1)9 ..;;orl SCRIPPS, of No. 7, South Molton-street, at TETA' r deof Office, No. 112, Strand ; where Advettisennen ti, '-- Letters, Ns:. (,post-paid) must in a./iiroseti. n. 1 i y ii. j. ~j s p 1 ~7 ‘ 4.!1,1 Zb `De z , 4