The Sun. — London, England, 1819-05-11 00:00:00

eoscil, would answer every exigency of Go vernu►cnt ; and they would be so found by re.. trtliting t i.,e videttes ou pay as to he easily and speedily enlarged to whatever number might be deemed requisite. The saving by ►his part of the plan alone would amount to 300.0001. Col. Devinson and 111 r. Flume offered some few oeQerea:lens, when the Resolution was agreed to —On the reading of that for granting 1 . 18,0001 to d , ..fray the expellee of the Stair Eoablistimeni, Mr. Hume thought the suu► tar too mech. 'He censured Government vehemently for not eceoulit ing for the sip pins revenues of Ceylon, the Cape, and other Colonies, amounting to one trillion sod a half sterling, or ►►t least twelve hundred ti►ousand pore i ts. In this general charge against Governmynt, he included the smth's revenues of tie Mauritius, the lonian 'shouts, Malta. and Gibraltar. He had expected that some reference would have been made to the Committee on the subject now noticed. The Hon. Member then went into details, and maintained that , the years 1816, 1817, and 1818,.had passed away without Government stating one syllable on this important point. The Hon. Member now boldly asked, what had become, of the twelve hundred thou sand pounds ? Or how had Government applied it ? He insisted that almrier the .wl►ole of these colonies were able to establish their military pay-, ments, and thus .free this .country front a sum to the amount now mentioned. If twelve hundred, thousand pounds were thus nude available to di minish our expenses, there would of course be a v-,ry important saving to the ~public. In the survey which he had made of the accounts from these colonies, he had not been able to disco ver any statement of appropria , ion of the 12 hundred thousand pounds. Ile insinuated that Ministers had by the misapplication of that sum been enabled to provide for such of their ad herents as they could not pension from the re venue at home. If this were made out against thew, it was a gross and scandalous -misapplica tion of the public revenue, He should propose, that instead of 118,0001. as wear t to be voted, the sem should be reduced to 91,0001., thus sav ing 21,0001. to the public. In l►e case of the Duke of York, the annuity of 10'.0001. allowed to Lis Royal Highness as Custos, had been opposed by a very large and a respectable number rut that House. And all those Gentlemen who then con tended for a skivng of 10,0(101. to the public, be hoped would now come forward to support him in a saving of 21,0001. lie concluded by an amendment to that effect. The SPEAKER was about to put the questiou, when Air. GOULBURN, when the proper time ar rived, was fully enabled not only to prove the policy adopted by Government regarding the Colonial Irevenue now , mentioned, but also fully enabled to exculpate them from all blame. But to bring the question fairly for ward, the Honourable Member had only to more for the production of what papers he might think necessary to substantiate his allegations . . In dis cussing the application of. those revenues, the Hon. Memb , r ought to have been more careful of the truth of his information, before he ventured to make , such charges against Government. But whenever the Papers which he might move for came before the House, it would be found that his charges were totally groundleJs Government had never considere4 that they ought to inter. fere, or had a right to interfere, in the applica tion of their internal Revenue. With regard to the lonian Islands, the application of the Revenue would he easily accounted for, either by the gal-. lant Officer ai the head of those Settlements, or by the Government at Lome. If he understood tightly; the Hon. Member (Mr. Hume) had men? tioned his intention of moving for an enquiry on the subj,:et now complained of. The Hatte.Mentber (Mr. Hume) had sonic few hours ago communi cated to him what he meant to mention to the Rothe ; but, instead of deprecating any farther discussion or enquiry, be had waived every objec tion, arid left the Hon. Member to follow his own measures. The Hon. Member (Mr. Gou!horn) assured the House, that ',either the Noble Lord, at the head of` the department to which he (Mr. G.) had the honour of belonging, nor he himself, as officially employed, would shrink front any ex amination which the Hon. Member chose to in stitute. It was needless to detain the House loner ; but be again begged to assure them, that when the proper documents' were under discus sion, he (Mr. G.) should not be wanting to prove that no blame was attached to Govern- Men!. Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH did not , wish to pro voke a discussion on the charge now advanced against Government that evening. Lie confessed that previous to his coming to the House, he was totally unacquainted with what he had heard ; ant he could not help confessing that if the alle gations were well founded, they contained very grave and serious charges against the Govern ment. If he understood rightly, his Hon. Friend had stated that there was a surplus revenue of the colonies meniioned adequate to defray the ex-. pewees of the respective Military Establishments; and that the application of, that surplus had not been accounted by Government. If his /Jo notiranle Friend could substantiate his allega tions, the case would prove as serious a charge as; - ever bad been presented against any Admini stration. it was an unconstitutional act, and could not be passed over in silence. If granted could be proved on the revenue alluded to, it would force a-epics:ion to he agitated of the greatest im portance to the public. If well founded, it would prove, that the Servants of the Crown were arailing themselves of a peculiar species of re venne to which-they had no right without Jim au thority of that Honse. The Hon. Member (Sir James) did not mean to say that Ministers could not justify their conduct ; but it was evident that certain clandestine resources of • revenue ,were under the . controul or direction of Government, wi.shout the authority of Parliament. He in stanced two cases, namely, that of Gibraltar and Minorca. Mr. GOULBURN again denied that Govern ment bad ever been guilty of any misapplication cif the revenue alluded to by providing for persons -scum they could not satisfy on the .Home List. Whenever the Hon. Gentleman brought forward the documents containing the grounds for_ the c h a rgr s a:zailott E;overntnent, he (Mr. G.) should enter into a toil explanation. He censured the Hon. Mewlicr tot twng in the heat of discussion the word " unworthy," as applicable either to him or his Noble Ft lend. Mr'. Humv denied that lie had ever used such a word as " unworthy," and challenged the re cf,llcction of any other Meother on the occasion. Irr drawing hi's deductions, Le stated one instance in v1ii.7.11 the revtnue 01 a patticular place had amounted to 115,0001. (11alla we believe), and the expeace of the e,r'ablishment amounted to 0,0001. only. Then what became of this surplus Mr. Gout -BURN, finding no specific charge, but general, assertions, declined any further reply. Mr. F. DouGLAs, Sir NV. DE CRESPIGNY, &e. delivered their sentiments upon the Arriendment, which was put and negatived.—The original Re solution for 118.0001. was then pia and carried. — When the Resolution respectiug Medicines was put, ." Mr. J. P. GLINT announced his intention of movitig to•morrow in the Committee a proposition relative to the Ophthalmia. The remainder ot the Resolutions were then severally put and carried. BARNSTAPLE BRIBERY BILL. Lord Ceive moved the Order of the Day for the second' reading of the Barostaple Bribery 8111. The question being put 'from the Chair, • Mr. BERNALL stated his real , ns - for °prosier.; it. lie was sorry to differ from several Gentl e men whom lie highly respected ; but lie was convinced that a case sitj'deiently clear bad not bees' made out to disbant hist' the Borongh of B a r: s taril:,..— He referred to tliicc notorioGs • rai , es, those a Crickliade, Aviesherv. In Crichlade, their privl:ges had been put up to sale as any commodity at a market In e%tering into parti• 'liars, the Hon. Menther ieskted ;hat these had been eo Ceidenee before the House which would warrant them to deprive the electors of their privileges, which remaio:d in :heir possession since the times of Henry 1. who hail given them their charier. The House shotild not decide pre cipita7ely on the rights of Englishmen. He , siis not standing up in support of corruption, but as an advocate for justice. The Hon Member con cluded by moving as an amendment, " That this Bill be lead a second time this day six months." A MEMBER under the Gallery, whose name could not be learned, did nor the evidence b e f o re the Committee justified the severe mea sures proposed in the Bid. Mr. N. CsevERT thought there was sufficient ground for inflicting exemplary punishment upon the burongli. .The Bill would only put the voters into a situation to prevent them in future from 'selling their country. Mr. BENNET Went into a detail of particulars, as a' Member of the Committee. Out of GO or 61 votes, 39 or 40 of the electors had received bribes in the most gross and scandalous manner; and one bad acted so intamously as to receive bribes seven times over. It was the constant system of the voters of that corrupt borough to say, '' let us wait till the turtle comes down P' meaning till the highest bidder should appear be fore them. There were few individuals who had refused the wages of their iniquities. In allusion to a memorable instance, of a very wicked one to us (Swim), 'if he (Mr. Bennet), could. have found one dozen of righteous men in Barnstaple, he would not be for destroying it. Sir R. Wiesost announced, that as soon as the present question was disposed of, be would move, that the Borough of Barnstaple be disfranchised ; and thst its privileges be transferred to some one of the large towns. Mr. BARHAM pressed upon the House the ne cessity of inattstig,ating the subject deeply, before it came to a decision. Mr. BATHUBST coweuded,. that, although no particular case of bribery had been made out, it was clearly proved that the whole system of Elec— tion in the Borough of Barnstaple was, corrupt. Unless the House interfered, it would be vain to expect any remedy from an application to a Court of Law. Wherever such practices as th e present had prevailed, boroughs bad justly for feited their franchise. But in the present instance the burgesses were treated with peculiar mildness, for they did not lose their franchise entirely, but were made to share it with' others. ryfr. BARHAM explained. Sir J. NEWPORT read several passages from the Report of the Committee, to show, that although large sums had been paid at several Elections, at Barnstaple the Bribery oath had never been ten del ed or taken. Did not this prove that there was a mutual understanding between the Candidates that the seats were to be procured for money ? Mr. BERNALL explained. Mr. MARTIN (of Galway) contended, that Utile Bribery oath had been administered, the Electors would not have taken the bribe, that they might . swear they had not been bribed, He should therefore propose, as the best remedy, that the Bribery oath be always tendered.at Elections. He objected to depriving the freemen of Barnstaple of their franchise, because the punishment 'Would extend to their children—and why Shonld the in nocent suffer for the guilty ? He should therefore vote for reading the : Bill a second time this day six months. Lord MiLTot defended the propyiety of the Bill, antlmaint mined that it did not deprive the Barnstaple Electors of their franchise. It ex tended it to others, and tbus rendered bribery im practicable, but it left them in possession of all their rights. This Bill had his hearty concur rence, and he trusted that the event of this night would prove that the House of Commons was not lax in prosecuting thoie corruptions which were but too well known to prevail in many places. Mr. Alderman WAITUMAN expressed his Concur rence 'in the sentiments of the Noble Lord—(hrre loud coughing interrupted the Speaker.)—But the Worthy Alderman expressed his resolution not to compromise his own rights or those of his constituents, by declining to deliver his senti ments in that !house, however disagreeable those sentiments might be to particular persons. He declared himself a friend to the Bill before the House, observing, however, that he could not see why the right of voting which the electors, of Barnstaple had forfeited by their corruption should be transferred to the freeholders in the vicinity of that borough, instead of being trans ferred to the copyholders, or to the house holders of Leeds, Birmingham, Manchester, or Sheffield, who had no right of voting at all. .The absence of that right- front such persons, was an evil in the elective system which called loudly for correction. 'But it was also a serious evil that the freeholders of London bad no vote. To re ttwdy such injustice, was, he felt, the peculiar duty of that House, and the people called for the performance of that duty.. He was an earnest advocate for Reform, and therefore he was ad verse to such a system of election as at present existed in some Boroughs, where the mere rabble, "here out-voters, brought from distant places at the.expence of Candidates, had the right of voting, while the respectable residents of property where wholly excloded. To establish a Reform in suelt cases was always his object , while he could never subscribe to the visionary plan of Annual Parlia ments and iritiversal Suffrage. Mr. V. BLAKE was understood to argue against the Bill, and to object to the introduction of non resident Freeholders. Sir J. MACKINTOSH maintained that the object of the Bill was not to punish the Freemen of Barnstaple, but to protect the House against the continuance of corruption and abuse in the elec tion of some of its Members. He shotild never support any plan of Reform where he did not per ceive a great practical evil and an attainable reme dy. He approved of tite present extension of the elective franchise in the case of Barnstaple, with out debarring himself, where circumstances might require it in other places, from removing that po litirsl trust altogether from the hands which had abwed it; to transfer it to those by whom it had not yet been enjoyed. As to the. objection of the Micinber who spoke last, to the admission of non- resident Freeholders, it was totally un founned ; for non-resident FEeeholders had always been in possession of the right of voting at all other Elect ions. After a few words from Mr. FORMS and Lord CintP. in reply, the gallery was closed for a divi sion, but none took place, and we understood the Bill to have been read a second time. Mr. J. P. GRANT moved that a message be sent to the Lords, to request a copy of the Report of the Secret Committee on the Buck.—Ordered. Mr. J. P. GRANT then gave notice, that he should call to-morrow for the, production of cer tain papers respecting the Optirahnic iablish ment. TOWN OF PARCA. Sir C. MoNcKE gave notice that on Tuesday, the 25th of May, he should move for Papers te specting the Military Occupation of the Town of Varga by his Majesty's Forces in the year 1814. On the motion of Lord A. HAMILTON—Sir G. WARRRNDRR and Mr. WM. DUNDAS were added to the Committee tor examining the Petitions re sptcting, Scottish Burghs, POOR SETTLEMENT BILL. On the motion vi Mr. STURGES Bountee, the Report of the Poor Settlement Bill was ordered to be taken into further consideration. General GASCOIGNE moved its recommittal as an amendment. He thonglit the period for en titling a person to a right of settlement, should be extended from three years to five to a native, and to a foreigner claiming settlement, to seven years. Mr. Mum,'Ay seconded the amendment, but argued strongly against the principle of the Bill. Air. PHILIPS opposed the principle of the Bill, but wished the Gallant General to withdraw the amendment, in order to move that the Report should be taken into consideration that day six months. Mr. F. Law's supported the motion, and con. tended that the system, as it exists at present, produced ten times more hardship to paupers, and injustice to those who were charged with their support, than the measure now under consi deration. Mr. ALLAN objected to the Bill, principally on the ground of its tendency to increase parochial burdens. C o lonel Woob-contended, that the Bill, instead of diminishing, would increase the existing evil. The only way of escaping from our difficulties was to re-tread our .steps and get rid of settle ments altogether. Let the lower orders of peo ple be set at liberty, and let the poor man carry his only property—labour, to the best market. Mr. HUSKISSON could not see how the law of settlement could be got rid of without getting rid of the whole system of the Poor Laws. He de fended the present Bill, as introducing material gmendments in the present law of settlements. The whole question was but a choice of evils; the Bill before the House appeared to him to be the least that could be adopted. Perseverance in the present system not only would continue the bur dens imposed on parishes, hut, which was of more importance, would hasten the moral degradation of the lower classes of the community. Mr. G. LAMB opposed the Bill. Lord MILTON supported it, as an approxima tion to petting rid of the Law of Settlements, on the propriety of getting rid of which altogether he had not, however, made up his mind. Advert. ing to the enormous Poors' Rates levied in va rious parts of the country, he attributed them to an erroneous execution of the law, rather than to any defect in the provisions of the law itself. Sir G. CLERK suggested to his Gallant Friend who had moved the atnendment, to withdraw it, and allow the Bill to go through another stage. General GASCOIGNE expressed his unwilling ness to do so. Mr. CAN ritNce supported the Bill. Ile thought, however, that the period of three years would not be ton short for rural and agricultural pa rishes, while it might be insufficient for such tocyns as that which he had the honour to re present. The Ilouse ought to receive with indul gence the first fruits of a Committee who had la bpured under the greatest difficulties, and who had received many more remonstrances than lug gestions. Ile would, however, Tote for the re. bt commitment of the Bill, in order that it 11114 receive the alteration to which he had alluded. Mr. A. WRIGHT opposed the Bill. Mr. S. BOURNE replied, i a st tbs p . Mr. W. SMITH said he should vote a re-cot - 11mill al.—The House then divided —. For the re-commitment 6 4 Against it 44 Majority 30 The Report was then ordered to be' taken inf o further consideration this day six months. Mr. Alderman HEYGATE presented a petitioa from Sudburyagainst the Roman Catholic ali al ' ; I:he Scotch Jury Courts Bill went throug h Committee.—Report to be received to-day. FOREIGN SERVICE. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL gave notice, ( 11 °,1 Thursday next he shou!d move for leave to b rili ; in a Bill to pent his Majesty's subjects IT enlisting in any Foreign Service, without his Alla jesty's license.—Adjourned at Two o'Clock. OPPOSITION. Sincerity and Consistency exemplified in th. Divisions on the two Questions for the ROW,- of the Scotch and English Boroughs. A CONTRAST. List of the Majority for the Reform of Scot 44 Boroughs on- Althorp, Visct. Anson, Sir George Anson, .Hon. G. Barham, Jos. F. Bernard, Visct. Barnett, James Bernal, R. Bennet., Hon. H. G. Benyon, Ben. Birch, Jos. Brand, Hon. Thos. Byig, George (;alvert, N. Calvert, C. Campbell, Hon. J. Carrie, It. S.; Carter, John Cavendish, Lord G. Chaniberlayne, W. Clifford, Aug. Clifton, Visct. Colborne, N. R. ColclOngli, C. Coke, T. W. jun. Concannun, Lucius Crompton, Sam. Crespigny, Sir W. Dc Calthorpo, Hon. F. Douglas, Win. Douglas, Hon. F. S. Davis, T. H. • Denman, Thos. Duncannon; Visct. Dandas, L. 1) ndas, Dinidas, T. El►ringto7;, Visct. Ed. Easton, Earl of Finlay, Kirkman Fremantle, W. Fazakerley, Nic. Pergusson, Sir It. C. Fitzgerald, Lord W. Fitzroy, Lord C. Flowing, Julia M. I). Foley, Thomas Folkestone, Visct. Gaskell, Benj. Gordon, Itobt. Graham, R. G. Grenfell, Pascoe 'Guise, Sir Wm. Gurney, R. H. Harvey, D. W. Hill, Lord A. Holo , vwd, Hor4y, Ed. Howard, Lord H. Howard, Hon. W. Hume, Jos. Hurst, Hutchinson, Hun. C. H. Howorth, H. Kennedy, Thos. F. .Lawson, M. Lamb, HOn. G. Lambton, J. G. Lloyd, Sir J. Lloyd, J. M. Matierly, Wm. L. Maber4,•John Mackenzie, Thos. Morlanti, Sir S. B. Manic, Hon. Wm. TE,LLENS—Lord A. Hal Thursday last. Macleod, Rod. Macdonald, J. Mackintosh, Sir J. Maddocks, W, Milton, Visct. Martin, Rd. Methuen, Paul Maxwell, John Merest, J. D. Mills, George M ildinay, P. St. Juba .Houck. Sir C. Moore, Peter Morpeth, Visct. Newman, It. %V. Neville, Hon. Lid. Newport, Rt. Hou. Sit M I/ North, Dudley Nugent, Lord Onslow, Arthur Ord, Wm. Osborne, Lord F. Phillimore, Jos. Primrose, Hon. F. • Palmer, C. Prittic, Hon. F. A. Pares, Thomas Parnell, Sir H. Parnell, W in. Pelham, Hon. C. A. Pe I hum, Hon. G. A. Philips, George Philips, George, jun. Phillipps, C. M. Plunkett, Right Hon. VA. Ponsonby, lion. F. C. Power, Richard Powlett , Hon. W. Ricardo, David Ramsdell, J. C. Ridley, Sir M. W. Robarts, W. T. Robarts, A. Rowley, Sir William Russell, Lord b. W. Russell, Lord Jobs Russell, R. G. Rurabold, C. - Shelley, Sir John Sebright, Sir Johu. Sinclair, G. Scarlett, James Sefton, Earl of Siith, Smith, W. Smith, Hun. R. Spencer, Lord R. Stuart, Lord J. Stewart, Wil Stanley, Lord Symonds, T. P. Talbot, R. W. Thorp, Alderman Tierney, Rt. Hon. O. Walpole, Hun. G. Waithman, Robt. Webbe, Ed. Wes-tern, C. Whitbread, W. Wilkins, 'Walter Williams, Wm. Wilson, Sir Itobt. Wood, Matthew Webster, Sir G. Wynn, C. W. milton and J. P. Grant. List of the Minority who English Borough. Marg. of Tav istock, Bedfordsii. Lord Ebrington, Devonshire Hon. M. Manic, Forfarshire Hon. C. Hutchinson, • Cork Sir C.M.Burrell,Bt.Shorehani Sir W. Lemon, Bart. Cornwall Sir W. Rowley, Bart. Suffolk Sir R. Williams, Bart. Losth voled for the Refor o on Friday last. Mr. Barnett, Rocheste t Mr. Birch, Nottinghio n M r..11t. Gordon, Cricklau" Mr. Davies, Worcester Mr. Symons, Hereford his. Mr. W.' Wilkins, Radnors Mr. Buxton, WeymoGuuth ,d Mr. Serg. thislow, i Mr. Rainsbottom, Mr. Gurney, Norwich Mr. Ogle, * Drogheda ... ire , Mr. Phillips, Leicesterso _ Mr. Flume, Aberdeen shit• Mr. Coussmaker, Kinsals Mr. Leake,-St. Michaerc Mr. Harvey, Colchester . ' Mr. Maddocks, Boston.. Mr. Bernal, Lincoln 11 Mr. Concannon, 4 I le Mr. Martin', Tewkesin" 1 Mr. Brown, Mayo Mr. Ricardo, Mallow. TF.L.Lrps. oirr, Hon. T. Brand, Hertfort•° otti. Mr. W. Williams; .Wc.,111 Kithirl Sir H. Parnell, Bart. Queen's County Sir J. Newport, Bt. Waterford Sir Isaac Coffin, K nt. llcliester Sir R. Wilson, lint. Soutl - . warli Mr. Portman, Dorsetsliire Mr. George Byng, Middlesex Mr.J. Edwards, Glamorgansh. Mr. J. Dennison, Surrey Mr. 'fremayne, Cornwall Mr. Alderman Wood, London llr. Ald. Waithman, Ditto Mr. Aid. Thorpe, Ditto Mr. It. Williams, Dorchester Mr. C. Lefevre, Reading Mr. J. I'. Grant, Tavisiock Mr. N. Calvert, Hertford If any of your Readers can assign a goO c e :ti i case for the absence on Friday night 0! ********" and many others of the\fri, Annual Parliaments and Universal 'tiffog`",io., shall be glad to hear it ;- , --but I am afraid tbe r r 'ibet' not any real inclination, in these Flatterers 01 goat People, to promote any scheme of Ra t , i %t• Reform ; though they may persevere in thor tjp . tempts to cajole them,—and, therefore, theY. s l ,o, port a Reform among their Scotch Ne 1 14 11 " - e of whilst they seem not Averse to the contionanctbee such abuses among ourselves, for on r''', 7 ° dat ground can 1 account for their absence on . Th i i; night, on the Debate of the Electors' 0,1111 vt BIRTHS. La" Yesterday evening, in Conduit-street, the Rig btO°3. James Stuart, of a daughter. On the 9th instant, Lady Charles Bentin_fy22l!....---s°" DIED. Ist ea` Suddenly, at Betbnal-green, on Fridaylast, tho uu of his age, Thomas Saunders . Esq. many yea rs of tilt. East India Company's Home Service. -- Grey, LONDON Printed by.). B. CARSTAIRS, Of No. vv. A' Ortunnthstreet, Queen-square; and published r b stIS SCRIPPS, of No. 7, South 111olton-street, at rldidetit Office, No. In, Strand ; where Advettisenleut s : Leto's, &c. {past-oAid) must. ke aldresied. it tell!!, I 'llo • 0 4tn , tmie ~~~ -. ~ t ~ "Pia t to rev .%1r 1J jett y , , And cr etor le ctor , ',met I Ti k ir ; • A " ,c ~a ttl' i)4 i \ i ,. ,;,.,-~ . ,;, ~,~~ ;, ~, .~ =<<