The Sun. — London, England, 1819-12-10 00:00:00

olost. .cut i , lence on the 1-ytalty and el m. of the people of Dorhatn. he believed that inure danger seas to be apprehended from the narasnues ahont to receive the sanction of that ;loose, than from all tire pr.aceedings of the tur bulent °tat of doors. As the Representative of a county which had heen most grossly and un justly calumniated, when the 1111 for Seiiile Arms came before that noose, he shoal() feel it his duty to more, that the County of Danharn should be excepted from its operations. Lord CASTLEtteMiIf, in reply to the question Which had been put to him, could only say, that n 4 yet he i}ad nut seen the docurnent which had been mentioned; he could not Tmsitively say that it had not been received. With respect to the county of Durban), he must remind the liono.ar nide Gentleman, that he had never described it to be in a disturbed state. What Ire hail said was to this effect, that dissatisfaction and disaffection bid been manifested, and that training had beet) resorted to with a view to eventual disturbance, The statement now made by be llota. Member ""as not better suppor.ed than that which had been made of an opi,osite character. When he heard the state of that parr of the country men tioned, he must always refer to the case recently made ont by the parties concerned, when it ap peared trona their own she'' big, that a tneetin : !, or near 40,000 persons had taken place, at which 7000 persons in military array were present. The lion. Gentleman now considertd, that all the danger was likely :II proceed !rout that House, and none train the meetings held Out of doors ; and to prove his sincerity, he had announced it to be his intention to Move, that the county of Durham should he ex,epted front the operation of the Seizure of Aims Bill. If proof were want ing how uarvise it would he to make the meastne of a local character, site') proof had been afforded by the conduct of the lion. Gentleman. Since he could intend making. 'he motion of which Inc had given notice, after the late meeting at Newcastle, Ile could not doubt but had the measure been other titan general, that almost every other Mem ber would have been disposed to claim an excep tion in favonr of his own d;3ttict. The Hon. 'Member had read a denial of the statement that eOO men had gone aimed to the late meeting, but enouelt had been admitted to prove that that part of the country was in a dangerous and critical state. Sir M. W. RipertY wished to say a word or two on what had just fallen from his Hon. Ft lend on the subject of the Mayor of Newcastle. In the paper he had read, he believed it was said that the letter written by the Mayor of Newcastle was little better than rhodomontade. He begged to Say that he believed no person was less Ikely to deal in rhodomontade than that respectable individual. He (Sir M. W. Ridley) had long been aequainted with him, and knew him to be most independent, active, and zealot's Magis trate. Ou vatious occasions he had shown that , e as not to be intimidated front performiug his (boy ; and, performing that duty, he had always equally protected the rights of the peOple, and the authority of the law . Stich was the Gen tleman whose'conduct had been brought before the House, and whom he was proud to call his friend. With respect to the genera! state of that part of the country, he believed that it would he found very nearly such as it had been described ht' the Mayor of Newcastle in his letter, and the correctness of that letter in most respects could be clearly made out. While he said this, be must add that the accounts received on the general state of the country, he haul every reason to believe, were ex'remely exaggetated. Its situ ation was in some degree alarming, hut front all the inquiries that lie had been able to make, the peril was no so great as bad been represented to that [louse, and the spirit of disaffection which had been excited was beginning to subside. He would state one fact to spew how things might be exaggerated by a well-meaning individ u al. A Gentleman writing to his friend in town, inform ed his correspondent, " That the Radicals were constantly training, and tltat he haul heard them firing at two o'clock in the morning." It was afterwards proved, even to the satisfaction of the Gentlemin himself, that that noise which he had mistaken for the firing of the Radieals, proceeded froar the retorts of the gas-eorlia in his own neighbourbood.—(A laugh !) Mr. LAmreroa said, he had no intention of at ta"king the general character of the Mayor of Newcastle, though he bad read a letter which de scribed what that person had written to be mere ly rbodomontade. Mr. G. LAMB di,: not wish to prolong this con versation, but rose to speak on the petition which had been presented. The Meeting at which it had beet) voted, was as respectable as any he had Vier seen, and, he would say it, more orderly titan ally he had before attended. He did not know whether another meeting, which took place at the same time, had attracted the turbulent and the disorderly ; be merely spoke of the fact, that the Westininister Meeting was most respectable and most orderly, and he solemnly believed, that those from whom that petition came were largely interested in, and sincerely anxious for, the welfare of the coontrv, and he therefore ItoPed that their prayer would be patiently beard, and promptly attended to by that House. Mr. WAIT)] M.saii ad attended another !fleeting that took place yesterday. In the performance of a public duty, he had been stationed near Smith field, and a meeting more despicable in point of to;nlhers and in appearance lie had never seen. For the most part, it was composed of dirty boys, women, and children. These twined the whole assembly, with the exception of the special con stables in attendance, and a few spectators attract ed by curiosity, who took no part in the proceed ings. 'this statement would suffice to show that no danger was to be apprehemled front disaffection it) the City of London. The petition was then read by the Clerk, and, on the motion of Sir F. BURDETT, ordered to be printed. Lord MiteroN presented a petition, which, he slid, would not take quite so much time in the eadiog as the last had doom., and which was not sienen by so numerous at body of petitioners, but which lie still consider:a to be well entitled to the Attention of the House, as it came from a father and three 1)1 whets of one of the unfortunate per- sons tAlio lost their lives 01 I,t• 14 'of A.tV.,qt The peinioners stilted the :mother Of !ben* family whoro they hail lost tc, iinve attended ibe tnee:ing of the 16th August, and virile aftemptiiiig to ~;e( ,away trom the hustings he received wo S i roke• on the head with a sword from one Of the cavalry. In this they were confirmed by the Report of the Manchester Infirmary, Which described this per son to htive been received so wounded, and to have died a fortnight biter. The petitioners stated themselves to have been taught that there was no wrong without a remedy ; but after the verdict of the „Jury who sat on the body, with which they (lid not find fault (and with which no fault could he /wind), they could not but feel that no remedy was open to them, and they now prayed that be fore the measures then in the Honse should pass, that those things should be taken itito considera tion, which bad already so far succeeded in sena-, rating one part of the people from the other. This pelitirm was not got up for the purpose of parade ; it was all written in the hand of one of the neti. !loners, and flow the unpolished style, lie consi dered it the genuine tlfnsirin of their feelings. The petition ''as then read. It was from 17,10 id Dawson, John, Samuel, and James Daw son. It described the manner in which their s on furl brotner ini.t with Hi death. l'he verdict of ;he Jury was stated to be, " Died by two oils received f t •„m a sword, but not know• by whom , hey were given." They played fur itiviry into all the circumstances of the case. The petition w.is order td to be printed. Nouroui. JusTicEs.. . . Mr. COX g (Ot Nol tOni ) hoped be might he indulged with permission to read a letter %Illicit had just 1):-en put into hi. hand from a Member of that House (Sir M. Fottlke). The letter was to !lie following effect :—" Dem. Sir, Having just seen n report of what pasaed in the House of Commons, I find at) addition,' reason to lament II vine been confined to my bed for the lust week. Had 1 been in the House I could have confirmed ill 'hat you advanced, as I well recollect having accompanied you to Lord Eldun's Chamber in the House of Lot •IS ." Lord CAsTLEREAGLI thought be had reason to make a Intle complaint against the llou. Gentle man, since after what passed on a former night he 'tad again introduced the sobjeer without no tice. When the Chair found it necessary to ter minate such a conversation from some of the as sertions t o t he remaining imexplained, it might lead to very erroneous coneltn:ions in a case like the present, as to the mode 111 which a public duty had been performed. lie brictly vindicated the conduct of the Lord Lieutenant of the County, and suggested to the Hon. Gentleman, that it be thought there was just ground for complaint, it would be b:•tter to give notice of a motion On the subject, that the House might be enabled to go into the whole question. Mr. CoK i said, if his Hon. Colleague (Mr. Wodehouse) had had the courtesy to show him the letter which he had received from the Lord Chancellor, he should have been hound to com municate to hint that which he had just read, in stead of using it as he had done. Since the Hem. Gentleman (Mr. Wodelinusc) had not done so, such artPution could not be expected from him. i\lr. ‘VovEnousE, after what had jest been said, thiciv himself (Ton the candour of the House.— What he had done with respect to the letter, was MO 3 voluntary act on his part. After the state. went made on a twiner night, conceiving the list of persons proposed for the Magistracy, though sent to the Lord Lieutenant, might probably never have met Lord Suffield's eye, he nut a question to the Hon. Member after leaving the House on this subject, when he was answered, " Sir, if you doubt my word a.k me the question in my place, and dont I will answer." To this he replied, " Very well, Sir, I will." It wits hardly nyces, silty fur him to say that he could not doubt his Hon. Colleague's word, but he would appeal to the (loose it it was the way to facilitate commu nications between Members of that House, by one Gentleman declining !o answer a question put by another. He repeated that he could not doubt his lion. Col league's word, but he should tint he willing to give him the trouble of answering question from bins again, or himself the pain of hearing such an answer. Mr. 'TIERNEY remarked, all %void(' have gone off very well between the two Honourable Mem bers, but for the interference of the Noble Lord o pposit e , His Honourable Friend had felt N very natural anxiety to stand clear with the House, by proving the accuracy of his former statement,— ltt this he bail succer•detl, and the memory of the Lord Chancellor was proved to be unfortunate. Lord CASTLEREAGH EXldfillied. OUT-PENSIONERS. Lord PALmEnsTori understood, from a goes tion asked yesterday by a Noble Lord, that it Wag thought an arrangement lately made affect ing Out-Pensioners was not according to law. lie wished to know in what respect it was thoogbt objectionable. Lord NLIG?..NT tepeated his question, and con sidered the Proclamation of the Prince Regent of the 2Stla October. calling on all Om-Pensioners to appear at certain places appointed, on certain days, or be struck on . the Pension List, to he at variance with the provi, , iun, of Nlr. IVintlham's Act, of the , Itith of the King. He alluded to the case of men who had enlisted for seven years. Lord PALmErtsToN understood the Noble Lord clearly to admit, that all pet Honers whose pen !ions were granted before the Act of 1806, were bound to come forward at the call of the Crown on any future occasion. _ _ Lord NuGENT did not admit this; but he put the question on the ease of those who had en listed for seven years. [And PALMERSTON minutely explained the re gulations of the set vice, and showed that under these, seven years' service would give no claim to a pension. Those only of those who enlisted for seven years could claim a pension who enlisted inuneatately afterwards tot seven years more. It would hence be seen, that the fourteen years' ser vice of those who had enlisted in ISOti would not expire till October 1820. Lord NUGENT understood the rules and regula tions described by the Noble Lord to be at vali ance with the Act of Parliament. Mt. LONG 33ij, an Noble Lord mistook the tfv‘e. Ileior'e toe nasiing nt Mri. Wialtarn'i pi , nsiotis depended tioircly nvon the Crown—the CroWn might grant, and the Crown might take away. The Act of th e 45,11 of the. King gave the soldier a vested interes! in his pension, independ ent of any order of the Crown. P: it certain re gulations were nionaidg,ited Ivith the sanction of his M iiesty, and neglect of these involved the forfeiture of the pension. 'file pensioner was now required to attend to no conditions but those which he had been wade acquainted with at the time he enlisted. The Noble Lord was mistaken in supposing that all the out-pensionets were or dered to Come forward, or forfeit their pensions. Lord NUGENT conceived that whatever the re gulations might be that tvere imposed at the time of the enlistment, that the pensions granted to the men were secured for life tinder an Act of Parliament. Mr, LONG said, thPy were entitled to their pen sions for lite, if tiny conformed to the regula tions under which they were granted. "l'he NPV;KPR here observed, 1114 t it would be for 'he convenience of the Howe !lilt this con vet sa•ion on a dry !Mint of military regulation shook' not proceed further, no question being be fore the H rise. Lord NUGENT then gave notice, that nn an early day he ‘vonld wove fora Ito o r o of the number of persons strurk off the Pen , ion List, in consequence of !be Proelantation of his Royal Highness the Princ? Regent, dated Oct. 28, 3819, distinguishing those who hid enlisted but for a lituitetl period. NIANUTACTUIIUNG DISTRICIN. Itlr. BENNET, plosuant to a notice which he had given nn ,Monday, rose to move for the ap poiutment Of a Committee to inquire into) the State of the Manntncturing Districts. Ile took upon himself thil task with a deep sense of his own "rant of ability, and nothing c o u ld n ee ,. tn dnced him to undertake it, but that he found n o one else disposed to do so. His only object was to inquire into the best means of trangtolliztog the Country, without in any way mising up party politics with this important /pest ion. He wi•died to inquire into ad the cireomstances of the pre sent distress. He knew very well that Gentlemen differed materially as to its cause. Some ,tulti buted it to the intolerable piessure of taxtoioo ; others to the decay of trade, and whets to the change determined on in the Cite olating Aiediton of the Country, which, leaving the taxes to be paid in 1011, while the former means of flaying them were withdrawn, had the effect of virioaily increasing their amount. All these questions must one day come before the House, and certainly they were sidlieiently formidable in their chat:icier to demand the most serious attention, am! such, that if they were not looked to, the most injurious consequences might be apprehended ; butt at pre sent he wished to confine himself to one ohj,c— an inquiry into the state of the Manteacturing Dist:icts. He did not state higher than lie ought the 'mintier of persons contained in the disturbed districts—in Lancashire, the West Riding of Yorkshire, and in the part of Scotland at present in a disturbed state, when he estimated them at 1,000 000 of souls. in Lancashire alone there were '220,000 manufacturers. Dario:; the war. various circomsteeces having made the trade of t h e wor ld our own, the state of these places was very fleurishing. Now the House hod to learn that they were filled with the most heart rending dittress. The numbers of the suffeters in the moth of Ettgland wete an:toady augmented by great numbers of the poor Scotch aid hid), who, flying from severe pave) ty in the land, of their birth, conic to seek but in vain for relit f in the latol of their legislation. Ile then went iota a description of the comparative affluence forrner ly enjoyed and contrasted it with the misery now endured by the cotton spinners and weavers. In 1811 the wages the cotton spinner in :lie neigh bourhood of Glasgow received was 255. tor his week's labour. From that period they bad de clined till 1816, and his week's wages were reduced to (Os. At the present moment they were anti (Hither ,reduced to ss. and sa. lid. He was told, that those persons had been distingoished by b t ir e r clothes, and a More polished air than were com mon to petsons of the saute description in this country. Misery bad taken away these distinc tions, and their (listless could not be alle viated by an advance of price, seeing it had been proved, as he well recollected it was, io the inquiry on the effects prod»: ed by tee 01- ders in Council in 1812, that the aiticles then on hand would not sell at any prier, and that tile pawnbrokers having filled their shops with them, were obliged to decline taking them in alto gether, and shared the general distress. The misery of these untottunate people, who had wives and children looking up to them for bleat], svhich they could not supply, it was impossible to describe in adequate terms, when it was recol lected that their present distress was made still more intolerable by the recollection of the past. Ile appealed to the House it the forlorn and des titute conditioo of these people did not demand consideration. He was the very last man in that Howie who would be disposed to look with appro bation at actions springtog from a desire to chalice the Constitution ; vet, feeling that placed in their u nhappy situation men must be exposed to tempta tions which in other circumstances would not a s sa il them, he could not but feel that that House ought to regard their proceedings with ston e de glee of charity and forbearance. He had stat e d the wares paid in the neighbourhood of Glas eow. "]hose paid in the neighbourhood of Pais- Ivy were much worse titan those already men tioned. Here there were three classes of mato:- facturers ; the first class, which formerly re• ceived 255. per week, now took but Bs.Gd. ; the second, which had in other times been pail Its, 8,1, now only earn 4s. Gti. per week ; utoul the third class were left entirely without employ mew. Ile had heard that many thousands were in this condition. They haul not that resource which those in distress bad in England under the Poor lAtwa, The Gentry of Scotland, he under stood, had been distinguished by their benevolence on many occasions when the manolactnring classes were reduced to distress ; but in the In e sent instance, what could they no, %%they) starving thousands were clamorous for bread, to furnish which the fonds of the country would tt t soffit e; L' very country in 1112 civilized world was engaged 1 iii time discassion of the importance of a repre'r na t tative corwitutioti. It was not surprising t", the people of Scotland, with their int eirre.e" ct : and education, should be awake to the itoporta"''' of such a discussion, and, anxious to partiffina'e in the blessio44s jalculated npon as sure to li" v1 from such a systam, ascribe that of which had to complain to the defects of that at preset:, acted upon. Another statement of the prices 11" 1 ` 1 in the neighbourhood of which he had spoke n (Paisley), he world read to the House. Fl' id it it should seem that the wages of the sufferers were lower than he had supposed them to bc :, as from thi s patter, it appeared that the first received but six shillings, the second 2s. 6(l ' anti the third was wholly without employment. He then spoke at considerable length on the e 57 treme di s t ress known in ell the manufactutiog towns of England. It was this caused :be dis" content which existed, end not any evil dispos i '. i tioo on the part of the people, but from the pees{ sure of misery, like drowning men cdtehiug straws, they were led to listen to the projectsol 'hose men who would betray them into excesses' Wilde the mainline:Er:ring classes were itt in ch distress, that at their present prices they cetd3 rue poreliese the common necessarim a of , lite, 11 '1 aericolinral pert of the cotnmunity turned root"' upon them and said, our prices must be kept ltit► and hieher prices most be given, or w e s hall b e • unable to pay our rents and taxes, and (1 1141 be toined. lie assured the noose that he '''" 3s urged on, in the present itlitattec, the c nnv;G' rion of time truth of the facts he was going l e state. The ho- dred of Salford comprermemied 110polkillOO of 400 000 souls. It contained two o r i three large towns and many villages, .which h'" grown to a very considareble size, and the ponuW tion Inol been enormortsly augmented it, the crierse. of a very few years. Mtottt the year 1745, most at the leading families were Catholics, and c oosi" mitred to he Jacobite!. The Aragistrates (mroa'lf retired tradesmen) he described as being appoia y et! itm consideration of their imigh 'fory polities; and, in consequence, there was eenerolly ti v ie ; lent oppositiorm bet e et) therit:troh the . people, 3 ' l " COUSt ant state of Colltetlittill W:11 tht: result."'" The people were besides divided into parties. ° L e t one side there were the Radicals, on the atl'e' the Orangemen. The wat math with which 111 e principles of one of these factions had been es' noosed by a me:ream:le house in dirt part of fl' e c-witty, had called forth, itt last March, as b e had been told by air eye anti an ear witness, h vere censure from a Learned Judge. At Li": . pool, on the day of the Anniversary of time of the Boyne, the Orangemen had met : 0 brate their horrid tires (mewl' he most cell ;:•o ti) by a procession intended to annoy their oal' . " . neuts. lie mentioned this fact to show that a"/ act;on was to he expected. Orie person d ro msol as the Pope, and another as a Cardinal of the Chord, of Rome, were parade'; thiough the street*, A"' having thrown aside their assioneri garment' , 3 Clergyman of the Clonch oh trigland had found to read a sertnou before those who formed the procession. A sermon presehed der such circumstances, appeared to aim li (cid heifer than sedition, and he wormmiereel that ri"Y iNimeister could be found so forgetful of what lia owed to his own character, as thus to prWtitosg the service of the Church. He temoild a ppeal (j a Right Hon. Gentienem opposite, i t ,„ ( a ) t ne ceediogs had not taken place. The lion, Ciatoll man next noticed the very low wages r eeeiva" by time weavers in various parts of the co ureq• The best wages tmow obtained were, in one pr'c c ; nine or ten shillines a-week ter fourteen libt" t work; 11t atmotimer, six shilliegs for fifteen 11 0 ' 11 work ; in a third, seven sin things for fourree° hormrs ; aed. in a fourth, six shillings for title °. *"lofisulditq lrossi b l that to Pe t ;h:e id c e lis i r t r ' es t s i e i s t wch(l'etil(mii!lii:)ell 1 endured ? Am! should mime HOmmse be surprised the existence of great discontent lt was tot d `' ,l; swim circumstances that a general disposition place last year in those eistricts to ley their gricf: mires before tire Throne, and to petition for liamentery Reform». This had been attended ‘'i t proceediui and consequences which all mu st re; grey. 'The meeritm, of the 15:11 Ain o pest w e , place and wes dispersed., nod the people we re salaried that that asseMbly was legal, and its 1)1 ,5 pension illegal; that the committal of Mr. "'J i ll was unjust, tout the hail required excessive,, c, : b the Judge had reduced it • ttom 1,0001. to 4° :, They believed the conduct of tire ithmeitormo",o Warrington to have been m- , nd lie (6(1 % too. And yet it was when such sentiments pici4 veiled among time treople in time man r tifacto • ' M districts, that his Majesty's brisrers set lbeir faces against ail inquiry, and the House by de o : t in it, did more to excite discontent than aol' 3 , t , which time Alagistrates could have voltam-Pill e ri), The Holt. Gentleman continued nor , " low home, so as to he scarcely wobble in time G oo lct'v. Elt.! was 1111(1:1:t , tOod to quote a pat 3o g e Lord Clarendon, to show that illegal acts 1:11'5 tended to produce greater fierceness among t l oo people. It was only since the dispersion O f r , Manchester ineetiog that evidence had been t, taioed of the procuring and collection of a rno , o , lie had no doubt that a et ear portion of these tormation laid before the House had been gl' o p to Govet motor by spies, and persons who c ? ba not he produce,; lest their connexion shou l( i j a proved, not with his Ma'jestv's Minister.s;diti, freely acquitted therm of that, —but ‘viCh iie a duals who had made themselves more busY ci t ,, je d they had army authoritoo t y he. Ile then compl•woe'r, that whilst the Boroughteeves of Manchesterd tt nominally chosen .I,try, at (tie l'claiogo which; WAS Mr. Norris, they Were really c il ' od ja among . themselves. The object which be hide view, \VHS mom itiquity into the presetmt state l o gi 4 t ie inatinfacturimeg distmets, and tie thonght L . , ea t tvould be impossible to senarate the ells triter that reigned front time ea a o a;,., di s tress. VV I for th e c ` )- ‘ r he should oe aule to propose any rim , not ime sideration of the Committee %tenthl he o r _ re . question. There might be several mans ,_ ° ‘oo lieve, it not the distresses of the thoutrodsobgr, 'ordered, at least that of a considerable o:; i ' d no g Government might undettake works, he „t ip meal) palaces, which wommlif pi (wore occritioo4,,, for many of those unhurt opiate brings' ; ,,lit Pe canals, and the cultivation of the law! , n lt r i r ( b ete inwroved, arid wolit be this proricee d : , pees' was another nlet:us• of relicin,.; TA