The Sun. — London, England, 1828-02-12 00:00:00

mounted, and objections unquestionably might be made ; but I had no ;ten to believe that there was any such dif • ference of Opinion as would leave , any party concerned to conoeir e that if that appointment were persisted in, it would be iv:apes/Able for the - individual objecting to remaiet longer Menaber of Government. All this, the douse will ,b e a r in mind, took place between the end of Tvovemberand • the beginning of December ; and en the-22d December 1 , received a letter . frorn the Chanqatoe of the Exchequer, in which he first of all stated to Me his objection to the ap pointment proposed, as a -rnatter of foam He also men ' tamed the "general gr o un d., o f e , public nature, net which • he Mated' his resistance to the nomination that had been ' Wad e ; and he co n cluded his letter by obeerving, that "un der these eircurastancei, and feeling these objections so strongly upon principle, he felt it his duty t o pl ace his of • 'fide at insdisposal,; fit should be any convenience to. Me toapeoint any other person in his stead." The conclu eion I drew certainly front that letter was, Itat.iny.Right Honourable Friend tendered the rerignation of his place if the proposed - nomination toot - place. It was utterly imeossible not Co see that taat was the obvious- meaning , of the t , omuitinicatien s I f e l t -it my duty sq to consider'' it. In answer to• my Right Honourable Friend, I slat - - ed that he had 'greatly misunderstood the sham T had its the' previous discussion, which he called a negocia • , Iron. I explained to him in teriting;as I have now done to your Lordships, how this misapprehension had arisen. assured him there was no- ground for saying that any negociation had teen 'settled and conc l u d e d w i thout his-ap probation fol., In - fact, I was not aware of it till it was passed. • I told him it was a great mistake on his part to regreose that any cage had; in ray opinio n , occurred, in Na - nieh it would be convenient'for me that he should quit •office ; and that, at all events, Ltrusted that he would come to no final decision until the 'satiate matter was fully and fairly considered. I felt it my duty to transmit copies of - these two letters to my Right. Hon. Friend the Secretary of • State, as he was alluded to in letter from the Chancellor. of the Exchequer. I will not enter into a long- detail, which would be tedious to }'our Lordships. The result was, that while, cm the one hand, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, though he was pressed in the strongest manner, not to risk that consistency which is the confirmation of the Govern ment, and though the most earnest endeavenrs were made . to satisfy him that there was no sufficient reason for theob jections he felt to the proposed nomination, always referred to his first letter, which involved Iris resighatiOn, as the neces sary consequence of that.appointmente on the other hand, the Secretary of State distinctly and unequivocally stated, not only in conversation, but , in writing; that he felt his own laonourand character to be so involved in tli maintenance of ' that nomination, • that it was utterly itripeieible that he could acquiesie in any change. The disaa reement, then, my Lords, amounted to thiethat there vas an irrecone cileable difference of opinion between twa ndiViduals, hold ing. two of the , most important and efficient offices in the State, on a question of vital impottance to the proper con duet ofthe affairs of the kingdom. • This was no fault of 'mine.: I did not-raiee the difficulty.- I had` no wish, God knows, thatthe•Government should not goon. I had no JJJ deal, 7 ,n, such as the Noble Earl (Carnarvon) seemed 'amen :pute. to me, of shaking o ff a part 'of: thee. 'deem. t. I bopel I am above such trickeea_ e as taelka lie accessary t o - • that drsign.—(Hear.).—l am incapable of being a party to proceedings of soeLnis6,i-ellatantet.--.4The.Earl of Carnet - von, ave soterething 'across the Hotise to 'the Noble believe Noble Earl did not iee•putedhia to roe, I know, itr fxprest terms, but his language seemed ituply it....alXheerte)---In whit t'auatitna was I? There 'was. an irreconcileable diffiretree between ttyo Of my Col leogues, oe uld not bring them together. I could not •, ;Mate either of them lo Vary , his resolution. What was outs' ? I tepresented to his Majesty the situation in which the Government WAS placed. I concealed' nothing. 111 had, I should 'have' been 'guilty of treeichery to , the King and to the eotinfry, and a ehoidda have compromised my awn honour and that of fifi Celfeagues. I, thtiiglit it mee duty,• frankly and without reserve, to lay before the Kiater the state in which , ciatitinstances had placed %Le Goeeeninent of which I had the ahintoor of tieing at the head. His' Majesty was censtitutianally entitled to 'determine, under these eireninstateei; what was fit ao he done with a view-to the promotion of the intereits'of the' seeantry. • 114 Majesty decided' cn sending a conimunicaa • eien to the -Noble Duke, anllfearfsed to hold the situation . en which I had.-the honour to be placed. It i s n o t Mafia supposed th a t any man.could lituatiou without mixed regrets. • I avow that t felt them. I balie'Seevetf • my Kim; and country' for eighteen yealasaie office, and I am not ashamed teii ran•- a -a do not think 't'show any effron tery when I say; That while I filled the 'different Officea'inaa truetecia o me, though the .pressure of the dirties in some ivarances was exceedingly Severe, those duties were not ill thecharged.—(Hear; With respect to the situ - alai/ - last held, it was -One I! r never.eoveted. I 'never stirred a reep to obtain ic e . , because, alaugh I en! not , destitute of 7 , ennest arniatieneedalea a aneitaaiiiVieef-pawerA4 . -pronifit tug kr Seek for hi seek c-tecl Mr.:---Cantii-t3:6-L6lAtllak,l was in a situation in which it weis impossibln-OleruV tge office —not that I cold -not e hut he aeoeible 6 - r - fr . r tWitle9Prahl.a..disaia_ futtweetittir tiasan and the haMblelipiikr. par tich e edilreew * H A wn- . f or ships. a He- was not trienjliocnitoe," infer- 41 , oouree with' V7as 464q4:134-1 4a4 4te g reats , admiration of his t al ente'lltineist own that lereseritenitet i calumny • l ieap s d - ii4 - liipiCa acre ceuel and unsparifila' stvle.--(ldeate heaia),-A4 e go , d e s Paself ( 1 12411 - heel - to be hi 3 succeisl;r; it, as, an idle, absurdity, which neveiventered my ii neg i n atian . But I tied 4t that time no just reason tor avoidieg the responsibility thrown on and I endertoori the tak conducting :the King's a tvhtctr I" ha ve •retited . frain that elevad' , Pi ... st; Ihave aecuivd as re rids iny petsonel interest er adeantage, nothing a' but;-a9 'recants my; honour and ebei•acter, everything.. •:• hilt I have th e prou d conseipirepess of having always done my duty to the best of na ability, I feel hat my hohniei end charactaaare ttraissairafire;--r,Flcar, hear. )-_I can truly say, that,. although- ILam -iio- longer clothed with the'"it-, tribute' of o ffi c6;l - FiTice - ,1 sh a ll. uevert cease t o feel a ri -arz dent.aiixietyateprotaniteatial eiPliOlelVe - hienour and dig eity of - the-Crow n; - and tim 15_ lea;a:* and freedom of the' people"-(Hear," heareaelia‘iniVaiae an independent Peer, - sower to staid' . I..tUtalaha4a, htimbraa'part in that et eat and .noldeduty—faraaSatat'lit'le-aer l'eielatineaftiraa his great and noble country . ); aaid, pelforming that data► I hope to , he as little - tniayeil by liar:aortal' emisidefitlons as I wat.when in the inotte act iee and ostensible* situation:-in = it was lately ., my' honour' to - he - placed' a 'arid I will add, that if .eho'measeiree of the present Government he founded on mineiplee of liberality; justice, and 'discretion,' :that .Governmente I promise, shall hive - %tat rest wishes for. its suecesa ; -for We live, mu Lords, in tin - tea - in which (permutes end 'names" are -nothing; hut princialea and ineasuree every thiteg—(Chders:)alt a has . 'been - very paiufeal to.me ramakeethisexttitentent at all, and I was the less swilling to obtrude it upoiti.Your- Lordships this evening, as it has-e 0 very close reference to the topics bee' hinging. to the a motion befog the - House. On _that mo tion I- t will, with Tour , Lordships' permission; now.make nut . 9 a seree ti ee ., - The Noble- Seetetaty-or State has in the House,- that .lie. feel , --it ineenitietent with his ,duty sent to "the production • sda the -paper!, ; and 42 utv t 1 t o am perfectly-'satisfied. With ..-thee-eaeone 6e aa, as. '. i l '- u leith-hitn; that would-he highl y i nt-I 11411tr itroper io1; ' hazard the peaceful' ternaination .• of the question . now pending -in th!..e . East of Europe, by thiowing the,. slightest e a p e diatent . ern the ivaarTof - the asanatment of that question. I tam tonceive, that-if - these papers were; heii contentS , vrould or Might` easily r °4044, the disclosure of. t eave a tendeney toe. - lefeat the g reat object which . the have 111 vietv. I- for one - am entirely. satisfied 'with the emma neas otateeee atiedene taken ,:by% the' Neble , - . ....5eee . t. , tary,) of St ate. muc h Ilisposied .to 'com . a , - with :him,: that this i s not the mo s t expedient tinrO' I to - enter ntb an explanation of ta,,, g , e, o f the itiStiee and policy of the Treaty of July,. : .Enet,ntaY have ]rushed some or his arguments, perh a too far, but all the cases he cited bore direteue. tel ta l; can he rupee : elee e te Q interference, uestion. Not hi ng! I con t en d ; ahatilaalaaaaaa t h e p r i n ciples of' that. he g iP-60 4eavith those set forth in the , Pr4toesal, of St. Petersborglt.,:s,:lie doubt - that we hid just grounds of interfera neeetesa, regarded the state .of as regale. .• Europe gerwatiltaill(kavh at as likely to haPPen i . be two Powenseitatuediatelv enga ge d in the e" - ttveen the tes t s , It laxat.iferflObvhanaiee tw o or. three years -ago, that the state!nte leauld , ng froin th e s i d e b e tween ~ Turkey and Gretc. e syas Kith; that if. suff , ce,_.llVOladis4t.no pro c eed eteth. to prot 1 withelit4gterfetel. lilt period; pro duce d couittsioniiimsg u . ° u° l .° cput strifee. 5....7,7 there it'll) d ia i r c r laid down in the r.ote 01)1, al Tte4y is a s , n had male" foued nded ? And I will li .e .l .llad no coiriinunit,naLl:lll,--en toanetify this, tllfi'errnee• place? H a d ou t th e visas Great , Britain, Itteisia,7anni tre the:Porte Wag not t h e France b een ma d ee l eno wa • re. angers Porte given t o un d erstan d the :d eep er ate d she exPth4 l tereelf e if.she did nothing to settle the to whi t , que s ti on. —(Hear. )—A matelial difference had , taken place, and th e stronger, cep s _ reasons that, urged - Us to interfere ,eeca . cially as English commerce was expose) to gqe. v q,_ u !_ j _ n J e u . r Ya and- suffered from piracy is an indefinite atuottne t at . : o " ,n ti: as loss of life, from the horrible barbarities too I I and disgusting to be described. We. had ' a ca ge ° direct, which gave us a ri g ht t o demand redress, and' If we were not successful by our remonstrancesewe had a right to the application of ferce.--(Hear.)—These are facts ofeoni-1 mon notoriety ; they are known t o th e w h ole wor ld, an d r them alone I ate prepared to maintain th e j ust i ce and nere. . 10 .ii iik, s.l l, t p h i i o f iu t a h i e e st tr y e . has t a y s . i,,e_e t n h a aV p e t a l rt n y doubt t o li f m sh o o s w t In c o g n s , _ at is fa c - Itleteleffteori ct, ly, an,d th l a v t it n h o t p h ri i riciopsltepoefr.fetethe g la o n o • d of fa n i a t t h io . ns I r t ep i udiated The course which has been p ursue d . The evils pressed upon us with forte, and n o me n possessing in the least degree the' foresight of s t a t esmen ; could keep out of view the more serious conseq uences t h at w o uld have followed. I care not when. the "discussion may come. ) Whether now o r at any future day. I Miele and b e li eve t h e j ust i ce o f t h e Treaty will he maintained ;• and if my old. friends, now In office, actingi?n the sam e p r i nc i ples, bring the question to a successful issue, the y w il l have the unqualified thanks and approbati on o f t h e i r country, in which I shall be glad 'heartily to p ar ti c i p a te. The Earl of CARNARVON, in explanation, said it . . . seemed 8 0!!!'..! Words th a t h a d fallen from him had been under stood by th e N o b le Viscount as conveying an insinuation or suspicion ag a i ns t hi s pol i t i ca l inte g ri ty . If a, single word had proceeded from him (the Earl of tdrnaryon) 'which could bear 'stieli. an itirerpretzition, he disclai me d i t. No Such sentiment" entered his mind. Nobody, h e was sure, c o uld thi n k of imputing such condu c t t o t h e Noble Visttrunt." '''lf; - "indeed, there ivaa"any per son w h om. lie Would s e le c t, wh ose c h arac t er repelled - su c h an imput e- tion, if it h a d be en M a d e , i t was that o f the N o b le Viseoint. The Earl of ELDON r os e to declare, that he never would hear it said by a ny autliolity whatev er t o th at H ouse, that the measures of the GOvernment of whi c h h e was a member, relative to the East, including the P rotocol signed by the Noble Duke at the head of the p resent G overnment were measures to be considered as fou n d e d on the large principles, with resp e ct to the law of n a t ions, as th e T reaty of the 6th of July. H e would n o t follow the Nobl e E ar l through the speech with whitii.' lie h a d o p ene d t h e motion, and in which he h a d discussed the difficulties of the suli jeet, both as rega r d e d the me asure o f t h e Protocol, and the measure of the Treaty, for this r eason , t h at ' the very Prin-, Secretary on which th e N o bl e Seerete of State had propos e d . to negative th e mo ti on , was one whirl: pr e v en t e d i t bei ng from usefully or beneficially 'considered ' a t th at , time. The Noble Earl (CaitiaVon), whil e _ lie called f or the inform a ti on whi c h be d eem e d necessary to a full and proper diveirmion of the questi on , went, nevertheless,. into an ample examin a ti on o f th e pr O pr i ety and justice of those measures,though the object of that speec h was to ca l l for information, t o ena bl e t h e H ouse to judge that very ques tion ; lie himself wa s s 6 anxious to ktio* what these in strtietions were, that h e was reatained ilom supp or ti ng th e motion only by th e principle- to which he had alluded.— Not for my life,. said the Noble Earl,' can I un d ers t an d . what in s tr uct i o n s could heve been given to the Admiral, to preverit'all Collisi on b e t wee n the belligerents, and yet to. Commit no ac t o f hostility.-_(Hear, hear.)—l k now t h e Noble E ar l (D u dl ey ) is a finished schol ar , an a bl e man, and, I understand, an exce ll ent wr i ter o f a despatch ; but I. should b e g l a d i f he would tell us how the three Admirals, and God knoWs how ttiativ commanders of frigates and , 1 sm aller• Vessels, Vetil to go into the B a y o f N avar i n , and fake p ossess t en o f it, and yet avoid all act of hostility ? T he very. entrance of the Allied Fl ee t necessar il y l e d, I ' tilit_tlt, to hOstilities. How, then, could the Ad m i ra l s b e ' actin g on th e i r i nstructions, only to, prevent the collisi on of the belli geren t s , an d comm i t no h ost ili ty themselves ?___ I am an- o ld E ng li s h man myse l f, and I have no hesita-. .tion - in - Saying; th a t, if a T ur ki s h fl ee t, or a F rench fleet, "dame up to take possession of i n E ng li s h har bour, whil e an E ng li s h fl ee t was l y i ng t h ere, as t h e Eng 1 lish; R uss i an; an d French fleets did at the Bay of Navariii, and if the E ng li s h Ad m i ra l did no t fi g ht th em , w h en t h ey came there, he would never deserve to be e mpl o y e d again (hear, hear. )—I - know I shall be ca ll e d a 'p e ttif ogger, if I allude to the law, and a pettifogger I hav e th e h onour to b e —(a laugh) ; but I will say, that the law, w hi c h genera ll y speaks the language of common sense , l ea d s me to the same 1 conclusion. 'lf one man hold up hi s fist in the fa ce o f another, that was a n assau lt, th oug h no hlO w was struck. It was what' n o E ng li s h man with an E ng li s h h eart in his 1 bosom would suffer. When the question cam e un d er t h e Vconsideration of . thei r L or d s hip s , h e pl e d ge d hi mself to prove that th e T rea t y was i n d e f ens ibl e by th e L aw o f Na iler*f-b if had ' any notion of What the Law of N a ti ons was ,- as applied to such a subject. If the Treaty was to b e enforced, the Honse cMild - Uothave the menus of di scu ssing a ! its piinciple until • tranquillitywas"finally restor e d i n the ' -East. The Noble Earl (Carnarvon) had spoken of gueran teei. .If the Noble Seeret a ry wou ld rea d th e T reaty aga i n, be would find that the only gu aran t ees s ti pu l a t e d t h ere ate from these who chose to give them.—(A• laugh. )—lt h a d. ( been repr esen t e d t oo , as some thi ng very wrong; to g i ve public explanations i hut surely if it w as no t wrong i n t h at House, why was i t so at an e l ect i on The Mike of WELLINGTON—I d o not r i se for the pur pose of discussing the propriety of th e P ro t oco l so often re-. ferred to in thexiMise of th e pr esen t di s c uss ion . " sOM e time or oth er it w ill b e b rought regularly and - fully befo r e o - - or= LOtelahipi, and 'when it d o e s it will be- t h e d uty of t his House to discuss, and p r on o un ce upon th e me a sure of which that document formed the basis: At pr esen t it on ly b r r - eornesnecessary for me to say, thatit i s my fi rin intentio n to-carry that Protocol, and - the subseqttent Treaty—that o f Slily, 'lB'7, into the fullest effect both in spirit an d letter. I. repeat, that my decided object shall be to- earry th a t T rea t y , ; s .fowli e d tl id i t n r o n t e, car as r a y. N w o i li th le ia Lc it r s d el ha f e an o y ht;e a r p y e e e d ifi , t e h a ti at o I t t he o :_ f P i r 4 O., I ,,it perf Thens - ty which AS objects Were to he accoMPliihed, or its 1 iirOvitions carried into . effeat. 'lint, is - I have already said,:i Some time or other the Protocol Will come under VOur ' Lordships' . consideration;- _When it will fully Tap. 'pear, that though no measures ' Of coercion were rtistitketly spoken' of - with referenee to - the Porte, 'that itichirieatis-4 allude to such dipioniatic means -:. were there' • adverted 10, - as by the High Contracting Parties were con-: '-sidered at the time best calculated to effect the object they' • sincerely aimed at. . They were not the sanie ' Means as those set forth by the Treaty, but they were snot as it was then hoped would induce' the Porte "to adopt that course ! Whichthe peace of E uro p e required. Let me not b e un derstood as comparing the two MeaSures—l hive no such . `object —l merely desir e now; once' for all, explicitly to State my intention of carrying into effect, in spirit as well as in letter, the measure to wh i ch hie Majesty-is a party ?. , without feeling - called iipon to' enter into any detailed re, . . ply to the -speech - of - the - Noble Lord who 'has made the,, present motion, though I must heg to express - my total - iasent.fronf- the-greater part-of it - Much - has:been said , -"ti t re and-elsewhere at various times on the Subjeet of inter, tt . Terence on the part of one State in the internal affairs of an ether, .but_l think it will be-admitted, that here - a case of the very highest necessity arose. In making that as sertioN however, I think it right to say, that - ray , Opinion' is, that non-interference is the rule, and inter ference the exception. That prineiple is the safe guide for t_ o_ll-..tnnieilsrof this-and ev er y country . N ow , I C onte nd , that the case, created by the conduct of the Turks, was an exception, and justified the means that have been re-* •ftorted to, though at first it was certainly intended, that those imams - eliould have been limited to negotiation and dipkiniacy. retail now say a few 'words in corroboration of what fell from my Noble Friend in reference to this pre sent motion, and mere particularly with respect to that Treaty of - July, 1827, which has been so often the sub ject of observation . this evening. That Treaty is not to be Understood' as - proceeding,' exclusively, ftom the British Government. On the contrary, though the terms of it were settled and arranged in -London, yet-it-was as equally 1 - the ,work of any or all of the High Contracting Parties, 'as ifit had been drawn up , in .a place the- most remote from I any of th e i r dominions.. The Ambas sa d o r s o f eac h P ower, resident in London, were in conjunction with his Majesty's _Government,.the parties actually concerned in forming that instrument . Now the manifest objection to the produc „thin :of the papers moved for by the Noble Lord was, that they related to a transaction not yet concluded. Three Governments are concerned, and we are, therefore, bound to be cautions that we do not compromise the interests of Allies, who repose confidence in our good faith and discre tion ; but even though there were no other party concern ed than this country, the papers ought not to be called for while the transaction, to which they refer, remains in etmiukte. Having before this occasion stated most , distinctly my intention, and that of his Majestses .Govern !pent, of carrying this measure into, the fullest effect I - confess my surprise at hearing. the Noble Lord call upon . my . Noble, Friend (the Secretary for Foreign Affairs) for some-guarantee of our intentions upon this subject. I have declared that I will do so to the utmost of my ability, and thii is all that I conceive to be needful. From the moment "bisililajesty's commands imposed upon me the commission with which I have recently been entrusted, and which I h;iv'e executed to the best of my ability—from that moment -I felt that.my duty would demand the course I have ex my determination- to pursue --and at th at moment pressed 1 a l so thought it my duty explicitly to declare such nay in teption to the Noblemen and, Gentlemen who have done me the honour to unite with.me in carrying on the servic e o f th e King' After that, I do, not understand w h at i s meant , o f guarantees, Can it be supposed thatrniu: by talking Right Hon. Friend, which h ab l alido i who possibly may have spoken of a meantg m u y aral ch i a te ri e t ' c ' t ea that treaty and the principles upon which it is founded-_ nd a p n r y in g ci n p a i r eS an a t ff ee o r beyond. W . e that r Were . I v . 1 ' corruptly to abandon i t--I say corruptly, for in the circurn sta 'ic es an Which I s t a nd, as a p ar ty whom a diplomatic cape cit-,w..1e- J concerned inhuming the original protocol,it would be corrupt in me to abandon it—l should be unworthy of the situation I have at present the honour to fill. Is it to be ' believed, then, that my Right Honourable Friend made any other allusion to guarantees than such as I have already spoken of; I have had no communication with him upon the subject ; but I feel perfectly satisfied that he never could have spoken in reference to it in any other point of view than that in svhich f have now been presenting it to your Lordships. It millet for a moment be imagined that he r/Mild so have been proclaiming his own shame at Liverpool as to have admitted that he had-eo connected himself with one from, whom such guarantees would have been neces sary. It. fully carries within itself evidence of miirepresen tatiore If he spoke on the subject at all, what fie must have said was, that the men of whom his Majesty's Go vernment was composed were, from their character and principles, a sufficient guarantee that the good of the people, the dignity of the Crown, and the honour and interests of the nation, would be unifornily prornoted,--not that the Cabinet would be governed by any rules of mine, : faise or otherwise. Again,.could it be supposed 'that I gav e Ire _ culiarly to that flight Honourable Gentleman guaran tees which no one else received or thought of demand ing. I say now most distinctly, that every Member of the . present Government' has 'entered the Cabinet free _as air. The arrangements entered into with them leave them at the ftilleet liberty to state their .opinioes en every subject in the freest manner and most explicit terms, and to propose any subject they may think proper for the. consideration of his Majesty's, Government.; it is, therefore, impossible that I could have given any guarantees of the nature alluded to, and for the freedom of action and speed to which I Have adverted, I fearlessly appeal to the Noble Friends near me, who have done me the honour to unite with me in the service of the King. It cannot, of course, be forgotten, that I was a member of Lord Liverpool's Cabinet, and that it being so, I was party to the greater part of the measures upon which it proposed to conduct the business of the present Admini stration; .that I concurred in those measures, and that, equally with others, I share their full responsibility....... How, then, could I, with the least show of consistency, the slightest regard for character, depart from the mainte nance and prosecution of measures to which I already stand pledged? As to what has been said respecting the Finance Committee, I soy of that as of the rest, that no particular guarantee has been given on the subject; it will, never theless, be acted upon with as good faith as. any party could desire. With respect to the Corn Laws, there was a paragraph in his Majesty's Speech, at the end of the last Session of Parliament, which contained a promise that the subject should receive the earliest consideration; accord ingly it was the first subject that Government deliberated upon, but that was done without any previous guarantee. There could not have been any, nor was any necessary, from those who at present composed the Cabinet. I need not further trouble your Lordships on the present occasion, than to express my intention to dissent from the motion of the Noble Lord (Carnarvon.) The Marquis of CLANRICARDE expressed his Bur prise that any one should have supposed, as the Right Hon. _Member for Liverpool had done, that his (Lord Clanri carde's) lamented Relative, not long since at the head of his Majesty's Government, would have coalesced with the Administration as at present formed. The Noble Earl who made such an assertion ought, he conceived, to adduce some proofs in its support. He would, with the permission of the House, read a short extract of a letter addressed by that lamented and distinguished Relative of his to the Noble Duke now at the head of hie Majesty's Government. (The Noble Lord accordingly did so.) It appeared to have been dated the sth of May, and, after adverting to a speech delivered by his Grace, in which he had declared himself wholly unfit for the office of Prime Minister, the writer expressed his satisfaction at such a declaration coming from the Noble Duke, fur he considered, that if placed at the head of the Cabinet, he would still retain such an influence over the army as would amount to a union in one person of the highest civil and military authority, and would in hie (Mr. C.'s) opinion be perfectly incompatible with a free Constitution, and would altogether constitute such a state of things as would preclude his serving under such a first Minister. The Noble Lord (Clanricarde) then went on to say, that he could impart no additional weight to testimony so ample and unanswerable. He concluded, by expressing his full conviction that his lamented Relative could never have served under an Administration formed as the present was, and that the Right Honourable Member for Liverpool bad fallen into the greatest error, in conceiving that he was acting conformably to the principles of him whom he had spoken of as his dear and lamented friend. The Earl of DUDLEY.—My Lords, I have been called upon—twice called upon—to make an excuse to your Lordships for remaining in the situation I at present fill; but I have no excuse to make. My Lords, there are two grounds which may prevent a man from uniting himself in public life with others. , The first are political grounds; and the second, which .I can admit only under very pecu liar circumstances indeed, are personal grounds eo strong, as to render it absolutely impossible for the parties to . speak with one another, nr moot ...; th 0..0a i.ii;Ercrant Enid ings on the ordinary concerns of life. I will say a word or two upon each ; but I must first turn my attention to tile personal considerations, which I have learned to-night from the Noble Marquis (Clanricarde) opposite, were so closely connected with the Opposition to the Adwinistra.; tine of my late Right Hun. Friend, as to render it a mat ter of delicacy, attachment, and reverence to his memory, on my part, not to form any manner of connection with those concerned in that _Apposition. - The Marquis of, CLA.NRICARDE.—I said, under or dinary circumstances. The Earl of DUDLEY.—Most undoubtedly, On the Oc casion of the formation of Mr. Canning's Administration, expresaions did pass between that Right lion. :Gentletnan, and some of those who opposed his Government, and with whom I am now connected by the ties of- office, and with some by friendship. , I will not deny that I shared in the exasperation of the period. I will not deny that many ex pressions were used at that time highly irritating to both of ps, and indeed to all on all sides; but I here ask whether the memory of such expressions ought to he perpetuated ? (Hear, hear.)-1 ask, my Lords, whether there is such a :thing as the sacred duty of forgetting and forgiving?— (Hear, hear.)—l ask whether it is not a duty in all cir -cumstances, but particularly in public life? Looking back to the history a this country, we shall find examples of some, of the greatest and most distinguished men we have had to boast of, considering it a duty.—(Hear.) —Looking to that history, we are taught that not only the law of pru dence, and the regard we owe our private feelings, but the duty we Owe the public = bind us not to cherish those ani inesities.—(Hear, hear.)—But I will not go back into remote history for an example, but will take that which is close at hand, of the most distinguished man that ever lived in this country, to show that I am jus tified in what I have done. The example of that illustrious man alone will be my excuse, if one be needed-4 mean that of my deceased friend him eelf.—(Loud cheering.)—My Lords, where could there be feelings of greater exasperation—(l should wish to bury the recollection of them in oblivion ; and it is only the nature of preient circumstances which oblige me to call them to mind)—but where were there ever feelings of greater bitterness, growing from political differences, to personal dislike, recrimination, and conflict, than . those which at one time existed between my late Right Hon. Friend and the distinguished Statesman to whose office he afterwards succeeded. It is then not from my late lamented Friend that lam to learn the lesson of implacability. It would be a reproach, a stain on his memory to say that it was. I never thought it matter of reproach, or matter of sarcasm, but always matter of praise, that he could both forget and forgive the feelings that were excited in him to wards that individual. I deem it also matter of praise that he afterwards sat in his presence as a colleague of that in dividual, from Whom he had been so unhappily disunited by personal feeling. They acted together not only with cordiality as political friends, but, as I believe from the bottom of my heart, with feelings of the greatest personal kindness' towards each other.—(Hear, hear.) It is not then from my Right Hon. Friend, I repeat, that lam to learn the lesson of perpetual hatred on account of political topics. My Lords, I was bound by feelings of the greatest kindness to that Right Honourable Gentleman, and latterly by ties I may almost say of gratitude ; for the situation in which I am placed is really one to call forth such a feeling on the part of the person appointed to it. But, my Lords, I am asked, whether I can conscientiously say, that there is nothing to prevent me joining those with whom lat present hold office. I answer conscientiously and fearlessly, that I know of nothing. lam taxed with not having proper feelings of personal friendship, for not resisting the personal strictures that are said to have been passed on my right Hon. Friend, but, in point of fact, no such thing as personal hatred was felt, for there was no such thing as personal offence. There was never any thing like a personal quarrel between my late Right Hon Friend, and any of those who thought fit to oppos e him. There was no such thing even between my Right Hon. Friend and the Noble Person who took the strongest, and, in one sense, I may say, the most offensive ground against my Right lion Friend's Administration. I have selected that Noble Lord in particular, because, if there was no personal animosity towards him where (the cause being greatest) it would most naturally be looked for, there Cannot, I presume be ground to imagine, that there was such a thing with re gard to any other Noble Lord. I say, that nothing passed at that timne that would warrant me in perpetuating any transitory feeling of .anger that may then have existed in either breast. I will now say one word as to the duty of suppressing these feelings. My Lords, one reason why men cannot unite together in office, is a difference, in important points of State policy. Now with regard to stipulations— if by that is meant that sort of agreement by which one man bargains to give up something which he would other wise maintain, were: it nut for the sake of joining in part nership with that other man--T. say, if that be meant by stipulations have been made in the forma tsitoipnuolaftis'tohnepresent Administration ; but if by stipulations . it is meant to -speak of conversa ti ons an d un d er standings, as to points of great political importance, those conyersa-, tions and those understandings have taken place, and do ekist between the, Noble Duke at the bead of the Govern ment, and the surviving members of the late Administra tion. We did not go to the Noble Duke and stipulate with him, and say, you shall not.go to the Protestant aisle as it is called ; nor did we say, it should be neutral ground, nor did we stipulate that the Treaty of London should be maintained ; but we understood from the Noble Duke that lie was spont a n eous ly t o observe that plan of complete neutrality with respect to the Catholic . Question which had existed in the. two pre - ceding Governments ; and in like manner we understood from him, that being called to his Majesty's Councils, and finding his Majesty bound by the terms_ of that treaty, be had spontaneously felt himself bound to maintain its stipulations both with regard to the honour of his master, and the interests of his country._ (Hear, hear.)—Of stipulations, therefore, there have been one; but of agreements and of understandings there ave been and are complete ; and with those understand ings, and those agreements, I have not been ashamed to retain the situation I held in the late Administration.— (Ikar, bear.) The Marquis of LANSDOWNE—It seems to me more respectful to this House, and to the importance of the question moved by my Noble Friend, or at least of those political considerations to which that question has led, for me, first, to 'ask the attention of your Lordships to the justification of the course which I feel myself called on to pursue with regard to the present motion. After the speech of my Noble Friend at the head of the Foreign De partment, I proceed to this subject more willingly, because, though under the necessity of adverting to matters of per sonal consideration, in which I certainly take no part, par ticularly-in such of the nature lately brought forWard— with respect to the motion of my Noble Friend, I must freely- confess to him •and to your Lordships, that most anxious as I feel, not only to see the-papers that he has moved for, but many others, going much further back, on these transactions, and necessary to the elucidation of those that may be produced —yet, after such a solemn affirma tion on the part of my Noble Friend, who is immediately engaged in negociations at this moment ; notwithstanding my impression that a part of these papers might with safety be produced, yet I must acquiesce in the objection made by my Noble Friend at the head of the Foreign Department, ex pressing at the same time my hope that myNobleFriend near me will not feel induced to press his motion. My Lords, I am the more ready to acquiesce in that objection, and to believe in the motives stated by my Noble Friend for de clining to assent to this motion, because I know no min more interested in producing the whole of the papers than my Noble Friend himself—there is no person more inte rested, with a view to the light which they must throw on his past conduct—there is no person mere interested, o ith a view to the honour they must reflect on those connected with the plans from which they proceeded—with a view to the light they must throw on the policy and opinions of the Right Hon. Gentleman whose services were so unhap pily lost to his country, and whose great talents expired in their brightest blaze, at a moment when they appear to have Consumed the very source that produced them--and on that Right Hon. Gentleman's fame, to which my Noble Friend at the Head of the Foreign Department cannot be less attached by the warmest affection, than he is to the sound principles of policy to which those papers, when they are produced, cannot fail to give additional lustre. I am the more confident of the efforts which those papers cannot fail to produce upon the public and this House,/ when I consider the effect the sight of them has produced on those who have seen them—and I tell the. Noble and Learned Lord on the Cross Bench, that he must not permit himself to form an opinion on this most important question till the papers are produced. If the Noble Lord who holds the Privy Seal, and from whom I heard the last general condemnation of the policy of Mr. Canning that was pro mulgated in this House—(Hear, and a laugh.)—lf that Noble Lord, on perusing these papers, has not only been able to bring himself to join in the unanimous vote, appro ving of the result of, the expedition to Portugal, which I heard so loudly condemned—if, upon perusing these papers he has satisfied himself—(Hear)--of the justice of those principles on which the foreign policy of Mr. Canning was founded, and on which, (my Noble Friend at the head of the Foreign Department will confirm my state ment), every measure, taken for the last six months, has been framed—if, I say, he has been able. honourably and conscientiously, (and I have no doubt that he hair done it honourably and conscientiously), to bring himself to enter drag a Government in which it is understood, and by which it has been stated, and has been now promulgated, in a manner that admits of no doubt, that no change is to take place in the principles of that foreign policy—what must be the effect of these papers upon the minds of persons who do not approach them with the bias which was on that of the Noble Lord ? I have no doubt that all pe rusing them must come to the same conclusion as the Noble Lord. It would be unwise to attempt to con sider the real merits of this important question, without having previously obtained all the documents, and many more, that my Noble Friend has moved for. Yet I must say I think that, in the meanwhile, this House and the j'poblic cannot more usefully employ their time and atten tion, than in well considering the grounds on which their - judgment ought to be formed when those papers are pro duced, and in the few words I mean .to utter, I hope • the Noble and Learned Lord on the Cross Bench (Eldon) will not have to accuse me of anticipating the conclusion the House may come to. The Noble and Learned Lord will allow me to say, that when he was accusing my Noble Friend of anticipating the judgment of the House, he was himself pronouncing an opinion as to the merits of Admiral Codrington's entrance into the Bay of Navarin. As the Noble and Learned Lord has pronounced a confident opinion on the subject, and has overlooked a point which seems also to have escaped the attention of ethers who have discussed the question, I shall beg to call his attention to it. lam the more surprised at its having hitherto passed un noticed, as it is (if I may so say), a geographical notoriety, and it is that part of the Bay of Navarin, that is part of the land which forth, the Bay is actually part and parcel of the British dominions—l mean the Island of Sphactoria-- which is one of our lonian Islands ; and where any batteries might be erected, or any fleets; anchored, that any British Governor, or British Admiral, might think proper to erect or anchor there. When the Noble and Learned Lord talks to us of the opinions of lawyers, I beg to tell him there is no lawyer whatever, who, on being properly retained on that side, and being shown our title to the land, would not very satisfactorily prove our right to anchor our fleets near it. It would require a lawyer of far less abilities than the Noble Lord to demonstrate this. I will not allude to any circumstances that may arise out of the production of the documents ; but again, I ask your Lordships and the public to snake up your minds as to the ground on which you will judge of the necessity of that unfortunate (for un fortunate it undoubtedly must be styled, where human blood is spilt), but, at the same time, most brilliant action. I agree in what has fallen from the Noble Duke with regard to the interference by one power in the affairs of another— interference is the exception to the rule, but occasions have a'risen, and occasions must arise, in which mediation, aye, and armed mediation too, is necessary for the purpose of securing the peace and welfare of mankind ; and when this question comes to be argued hereafter, I shall not desire to argue it on any other grounds than those laid down by the Noble and Learned Lord the other night —namely, the tendency of the action to secure the ultimate peace of the world. Certain I am, that it is not by pusillani mously refusing to engage in those transactions in which the rest of Europe have embarked, that that peace is to be ultimately secured. We shall have first to ascertain whe ther this was not a mediation for the benefit of the parties interfered with alone ; and next, whether it was not one of those sorts of mediation not particularly intended for CLIO benefit of the two'parties more immediately concerned, but for the benefit, and for the sake of the peace and happiness of Europe generally. In the last inquiry, we shall have to examin e w h et h er t h e cont i nuance of the state of th i ngs we wished t o put a stop to, m i ght not ultimately hive dis'' btuoruhreidngthneabtiaolanns.ce If i p t os b v e er fo an un d d t te t petahceeseuenees of co nsetheineigh might have ensued, I shall then ask your Lordships whe ther the most beneficial course, that most likely to contri bute to the peace of Europe, was not MILO. Will any of your Lordships say, that the interference ought to have been left in the hands of a power which might have extended much further than could be reconciled with the interests of other nations? Will any of your Lordships say, thinkingly say, that it ought to have been left to one great Colossus to act in the solitude of its power, uncontrolled by that com munity of principle which it has been the object of all the late negotiations to establish? Will your Lordships say, we were to suffer that, or permit our commerce to be scourged, and run the chance of a new and dangerous sort of power being erected in that quarter? We shall have to reflect upon all these things, and to say whether it was not better that the operation should be carried on by the nations jointly, and should be limited and certain in its object, or that we should run the risk I have alluded to, in suffering it to be conducted without our partici pation. Ido not think any of your Lordships are prepared to say, admitting, as we did, the legitimacy of the inter ference, that any one Power should not interfere.' When the documents come before us, we can judge whether the laws of nations have been complied• with, or whether there was a call for 'their •dispensation by the situation of our commerce. We shall then safely judge of the policy and discretion that was exercised ,in reducing and controlling the more or less barbarous government we came in contact with, and of •the necessitythat existed for doing so for the general peace and happiness of other countries. So much have I been induced to say upon the subject of the question my Noble Friend has brought before this House. That question involves most important considerations on our fo reign policy, both with regard to the past and the future; and it has not been unnatural for me to dwell somewhat upon a subject so intimately connected with the prospect iwhich this country has of being governed according to the true principles of legislation which have (we understood the Noble Lord to say) influenced its councils for some fen years past. My Noble Friend who sits upon the Cross Bench (Lord Goderich) has been led by this consideration, perhaps, to go into some details respecting the events of the last three months. To the statement he has made, as far as lam Sc-' quainted with the particulars, I must entirely subscribe. It has been correctly stated that the dissolution 0 the late Administration originated in certain differences between a Right Hen. Friend of mine and another Right lion. Person who was in the Government. That difference was a strong one upon a most important point, but although it was strong, I will not go so far as to say that it is irreconcile able.—(A laugh.) After what I have seen and heard, I think myself bound to state, that the dissolution (lid not occur in consequence of any previous understanding that it was a temporary Government.—(Hear, hear.) My Noble Friend has stated, on the part of himself and others, and as far as I am acquainted with the facts, I can certify to the truth of the statement, that there was nothing like such an understanding. Indeed lam convinced that there could have been no such understanding, because, from the frankness of communication which marked every part of my Noble Friend's conduct, particularly towards myself, I am sure if he had known, or even surmised that it was understood so by others, he would have told me so at once. And I trust your Lordships will forgive me, for I mean it not boastingly,. if ,I say, that no consrderatinn could have induced me to retain the situation I held in the Government, had such been the circumstances under which I was to have- held it. My Lords, I and bound to set the public right in one or two points, in which my conduct on a late occasion has not been placed before it in that light in which an explanation from me can place it. A state went has been reported to have been made by my Right Hon. Friend in another place, which I believe to bays been made by him, for it appears to have been very accurately reported, all the accounts agreeing substantially in their representation in what he said. I do, not wish to com plain of this statement in any other sense than as containing facts, necessarily perhaps, certainly unintentionally, dis joined from other facts, which, as far as I am concerned, most materially affect the complexion of my conduct at the period to which they relate. My Right Hon. Friend has stated to his constituents the substance of a conversation that passed between him and myself, I think on the I Ith of Ja nuary, relating to the formation of an Administration, and connected with the dissolution of that over which my Noble Friend first presided. I met my Right Hon. Friend with a disposition to giver him my confidence, and with an expectation of having his in return. This mutual confidence I was prepared to expect, because, in the very last conversation that occurred between my Right Hon. - Friend and myself, which was on the 29th of December, he, for the first time, detailed to me all the circumstances that have been alluded to by myNoble:Friend, and explained to me the impossibility, under the circumstances of that difference, of his forming part of a Government where such a difference could not but exist. He furthermore then acquainted me with his intention to tender his re signation en account of that supposed irreconcilable difle. rence. He then received front me my assurance of my en tire agreement in what lie said, which assurance I after wards repeated to him in the form of a letter. I then left town, and, except an intimation to ate from a Noble Friend, that be had acted upon his resolution,' nothing more passed till I came to town, and had that conversation with the Right Honourable Gentleman to which he has referred. My Noble Friend, I found, had represented the circumstances of the case to his Majesty, who was there upon pleased to send to the Noble Duke now at the head of the Government, to form an Administration. My Right Honourable Friend had seen the Noble Duke and another Noble Lord on the subject of the formation of the Government, and he has stated most correctly that part of our conversation. He expressed his sense of the insur mountable difficulties that would prevent tne from forming part of such a Government; and that much he stated to his constituents; but it is necessary to supply those parts of the conversation which he has omitted. My Right Hon. Friend commenced the conversation by stating" to me the circumstance, that be understood from high authority, that a proposal would almost immediately be made to me on that subject; I did not understand from him that he had autho rity to snake the proposal, or that he did not make it, least the circumstances he stated to me compelled me, consider ing the habits of confidence in which we had lived, to make the answer which he has detailed in his statement. It was after he had stated to me the impossibility of his act ing in a Government under Mr. Peel, owing to that Gen tleman's declarations last year on the Catholic Question, that I felt called upon to return his confidence, by stating to him the impossibility in which I found myself, of acting with any Government which, front any thing I heard, or any assurance I had to the contrary, was opposed to the great interests which it was my deep and conscientious be lief could not even be neglected without the utmost danger. It was then I called his attention to the grounds on which I had joined Mr. Canning's Administration. I joined it, not because I in general agreed with him upon the other objects of his policy, but on the express grounds of the advantages that. would undoubtedly attend the great interests I thought of so much consequence in there be ing at the head of the Government an individual, who on those points, entertained the same opinions with my self. The opinion I entertained on this point was subse quently confirmed by a declaration made by Mr. Peel else • where, in which he stated his sensibility of the force of the same considerations ; for he stated, that he could not act under an individual who differed with him on the subject of those great interests. I felt bound in candour to state to my Right Hon. Friend, what influenced me in my de termination; and I am glad to have had, this opportunity of making the statement I now have, because nothing could hurt me more than to have it supposed that I was in fluenced in the declaration I made to my Right Honourable Friend by an ostentatious desire to show an indifference for office, or still less, by any thing like personal disinclination to join any of the Noble and Honourable individuals I un derstood to be forming the Government. These circum stances will explain in what manner the confidential inter course between us was carried on. Ido not complain of the statement made by, my Right Hon. Friend, as I am confident it was made with no un favourable intention or unkind feeling—and if I have any thing in it to re gret, it is only that in the anxiety he must have felt to communicate light to his constituents, as to the trans actions that have lat e ly occ urred, he seemed to think b e could convey some motives to them of the dissolution of the Government, whilst he seemed to think himself cetn_ pelled entirely to withhold all mention of what my N o bl e Friend has stated, and which I agree with him in stating to be the real cause of the dissolution. Of that que s ti on , however, I have now disposed. I have candidly stated my own feelings, with respect to the formation of the present Government, and the reasons which withhold me from giving it that sort of confidence, which, in my opinion, ought only to be given where there is an entire and perfect agreement of sentiment on the great interests I have alluded to. lam sure I have no reason whatever to doubt the as surances that have been given me on those subjects, 'al -1 though certainly theygo - sonsething beyond what I have heard stated in this' House. The expression which has been so much adverted to; of guarantee, was not the expression of my Noble Friend who made the motion, for it was boa_ rowed by hi m f rom my Ri g h t Hon. F r i en d in th e state ment I h ave a ll u d e d to. I n that statem ent he sa id , that the wh o l e o f our f ore i gn and co mmercial policy wa s gua ranteed in the arran g emen t o f th e present Minist ry , to be carried on on the same footing as they were under Mr. Canning's Administration. The Pledge has been given in distinct terms, and, up to this moment , an u ncontra di cte d ' statement. My Lord s , my Noble Friend at the head of the Foreign Department has fortunately release] the Noble Lord who holds the Privy . Beal from the charge of euter-,. taining any personal animosity against the late Mr. Cau, ning. He acknowledges that some violent and strong ex pressions were applied to Mr. Cannines policy, hut denies that they could have originated in an y personal feeling I am glad that he has had the opportunity of thus relieving his and my Noble Friend from the imputation that had been case upon him. As these expressions were not personal, but merely in disapprobation o f m r . Canning's policy, I May mistake when I am called on to believe that that policy will be continued without change. If my Noble Friend has been open to reflection, and has inquired into the merits of that policy during the last year, and satisfied himself as to his perfect correctness in all its parts, so as to be prepared to act with a Govern ment, the principle of which is, that no change is to take place in that policy, either foreign or commercial, 1 aus sure he will prove a useful Ally in the cause he has newly undertaken to advocate. My Lords, I am, therefore, little disposed to enteriim.'" any course of opposition to a Govern ment, which is pursuing, and which promises to pursue, the same measures which were pursued when I wa s ter -a Meunier of the Government . : There was nothing is situation whi c h I held, and hive left .. — , nothing in ' motives which induced me to enter into his Majs o ) 'Goxernment, when - his Majesty deigned to de s ire -to. do so--;.nothing in the circumstances under wb i I was permitted by his Majesty to resign the seals -office, honoured, as I was,. by his express a pprotsi tion of my . conduet ' whilst I held :theinnothiog , - m say, that -should - induce eto join i n - a ;_reg l 4 course of opposition to Government. --That Governio: will, I am sure, entitle it se lf to my. confidenc e , an d that" the intelligent part .of the community, on the su bj e ct -what . is' celled, the Catholic. Question; -_ 1 h ave - a l r esl stated that I cannot feel, the s ame sent i ments on that St° ject as many individuals who a re i n th e Government. 311 have pledged themselves that th a t quest i on is to be 0 it called neutral gro u nd, hut, mylords, I kn ow too to of- political neu t ra l groun d, no t to ,k now that the inha lc tants of that country, ha v i ng it s pr i nc i p..l garrisons b e j bran o , enemy, is not i n a ver y com f orta bl e s i tuation , though that enem y b e as f a i r an d h onoura b le, and act w' " l he strict a neutrality as I am certain the Noble Duke i'l" tends to do. I trust that the road to promotion and ifp vour, although running immediately under the guns i : that fortress, will be left safe and open to travellers of creeds, as heretofore. lam glad to hear the Noble DO ,' pledge himself t o this ; but o n th a t su bj ect I must be 0 lowed to say, - that I shall look to his actions, to the It' ture, and to the progress which I know that cause m utt make under such circumstances. With respect to eve other object of public interest, it. is not 'my dispositiol, to prejudge the Noble Duke or his Government; to° I run sure that he would not have quitted - that sites' tion, ill which all men must _have rejoiced to see hitt' and for which I am satisfied that he is much beds' qualified 'than any man , living—and I have stated 0 much on mare than one occasion before to-night—l sl i sure, I say, lie would not have quitted that situation, with' out feeling, confidently feeling , that it was. i n his power to render great er serv i ces toith e State, in • the situation 11' now holds, than in that in which he has relinquished' To those services I look with confidence. The eyes of liiii country, of Europe, are upon all his actions, and I trail that that improvement, for which there is in the condi' tion of this country too ample room, may .take place # soon as the Noble Duke expects. With respect to the itr fluence the Noble Duke is said to retain over the ariofr notwithstanding his resignation ,of. that office, we have hl pledge that the separation sh a ll he. real and effectual. am glad, for the sake of the Constitution of the countil that he has given this pledge, and I trust that, for ti° sake of the Constitution and of his own honour, that tl pledge will be redeemed. My pleasure is not the less, tho this reasonable and Constitutional course was intimated l ' the Noble Duke, as his intention to take on the very filse 1 day of the Session. Th e manner in which he intends to ' proceed will, I trust, be effectual. The Noble Duke het pledged himself that nothing of hostility shall be evinced 0 0 , the part of the G ov e r nm ent ; b ut he mast excuse me if ; say that I still intend to look at the actions of the Cabinets before I can feel satisfied that Ireland may hope for re' lease ; but I feel sure that the Noble Duke would not have quitted that situation, in which all the nation wished 0 see him, and which, of all men, lie is most fitted to fill, without the feeling, that by so doing it would be in his power to render the financial and political departments of the State g reat services—s erv i ces on w hi c h w i ll be the eyes • not only o England, but of Europe ; and I can assure , the Noble Duke that he will find, in the present condition of the country, as much rodm for the exercise of those ser vices as be can possibly expect. But I must confess that I should see that appointment with greater satisfaction, if I could bring myself to believe that the interest, of the army would be distinctly separate from the present office of the Noble Duke. lam glad, however, for the sake of the Constitution, that that pledge has been given ; and I hope that in consideration of that same Constitution, it will be strictly adhered to, for I think that the N o ble Duke acted most wisely and constitutionally, when he in' timated on the first day of the meeting of Parliament, that ' a separation of the offices was to take place, which could not but be satisfactory to every one. I trust that this in' timation 'is a prologue descriptive of the play that will be acted, and that in this prologue scene it will be said, "No harm shall be dove with my sword." But, as I hive said - before, I will not prejudge the intentions of any one: I shall - watch every thing that takes plac e , as a mem ber of the Legialature of my country; and I can assure the 'Noble Mike, that I wish bins the most fortunate success in his Adnitinistration ; but before I sit down, I,beg leave to ' assure him, which I do with a firm conviction of its truth, that whatever he may be able to`achieve; - there Is one thing Which,- with all'his military enemies, - he - never can achieve, and against which I warn - him—let hiin remember, that be may conciliate, but that he can fever reconquer Ireland. ' (Hear, hear, bear.) Loid ELLENBOROUGH.—Whenever it way be dee med-Consistent with the public interest to produce all the matters which have taken place within the last six months —whenever it may be deemed consistent to lay on the table of this House all those papers from which alone we can rightly judge of facts, I shall be as ready as the Noble Marquis to expl a i n t h e opinion I have formed en these events; and when I assure your Lordshipsii that t my opinions may h ave b een, t h ey still remai n unaltered, w properaltheraedtev,efr trust that I shall b e entitl ed to have your ae come beli to belief time sh a ll arr i ve f or a f uller e xplanati on t h an at present. .---(Hear, hear.) Th e N o ble Marquis s eems to suppose that some records of office must my knowledge by which, in spite of a former disapproval on my ,part, I theN oofholeurint:rocionpiss fr i o s m as P w or ro tu n ga g Portugal but i have been induced to concur in that part of N. Majesty's Speech which has reference to the orders that have been troops into Portugal I never did disapprove. How was fl g a i eb le g n ato f s o b r esa th iy e s, withd rawalitnihisreason. Of the im portation of our it possible - that I' could disapprove of an act which was in strict obedience with the terms of our treaty with that country ? I certainly did r idi cule those wbo'pretended to speak of that act as a master stroke of policy, for host; could that be a master stroke of policy for which we had no choice ? And even if I had disapproved of the measure, how much more warmly would that 'fact have . which pronounced that state of affairs to be at an end ! " Mr. Canning is to pose, from what has been promulgated, the former policy of reason to change the sentiments which I' formerly enter tainedhe persevered in, and that I haVa found on this subject ; but I am at a lose to see how it can be concluded, that I have changed my sentiments, because his colleagues, policy into effect, for I I think it right to agree with those who wish to carry the cßmhuiaetdfetphinrei principle -adpeerrodse vious, an attemptawast the never heard any man explain whit' that principle was -as co ntradistinguished from the policy of the 31,iaistry itni:::liittukhost be considered lopblielnecoiafdlaeairrci.n with icas sntahn)aia,nt gtp:saartt he ef hashis b3eelaajesltyed'smapsee:ph. which pre ce d e d hi m I know that when, some time pre• pa wh ra en te A h l e r. w C as ann s in e g ere fr ta o r n y i in in e t a o ns ai t:o l explanation, of State for Foreign and A h ffai ad ie, sai t d h , at tha g t en h t e l emeoaL entered into n la t ni t i o tio tale praise to himself for any difference from the political creed of the late Ministers; for, if he was to do so, be would be acting most unfairly, and be forfeit ing a ny claim that he might have to credit, from the House in which he was speaking. But it is the fashion to think, that eminent Minister; but, nalinagt,nallour commercialforeign po p l o ic li: is 'attributable to Mr. Canning; perhaps even the Noble Marquis may suppose that the re cognition of the States of Slut f h aor A ,,n m o er s i ne ca h w th a i s ng ow w i a n s g e t } o e case. But the Noble Mar a g n u d is h h ad ad s ta ai l d ked tha a t bo h u e t u tr e . r3 C to a o n ti . that that likewise was to be persevered in : the Noble Mar quis will, doubtless, recollect, that when that policy was from the opinions In nroluvghhatt respect, then, have thblayirt,ehliiiln_skgsoillees,ohinaase:id,kofdtihdonseotii:oasreg argue it. 1 , alwaYs have proved of the principles of free . tra d e, and have been desirous .to carry them as might be suitable to the generally ap- State ofthesountry , in favour of the Slave Trade contended, that, in looking at , . A f r i ca , and the black in the West Indies, the the black so be much latter is found to . the happiest, quite overlooking which I once entertained? l the horrors of- the middle passage. Many of our political economists look too much to the wealth of the rfation only, all that more forget extended policy which separates and tke foreign Powers by which we are surrounded, us from the „, my Lords, that I shall approach any future commer cial discussion,- but I beg . that it s w uc h i i i ch fee is lin of p th as e that that which has been done within the last few years is any innovation introduced by Mr. Canning. I think that the Noble Marquis cannot find fault with me for fiwming part of a Government in which the Catholic Claims stand in the same postur e as heretofore. I said last year that this question was likely to stand better in a neutral position, and I say so now. lam persuaded that if a union were to take place in favour of those claims, it would produce a re-action, which would throw back rather than advance the Catholic interest, whilst a union against them wou ld b e an evil of considerable magnitude, the O th er way; and I feel convinced, however paradoxical it may ' appear to the Noble Marquis, that the Catholic Question is likely to derive more good under this Government than it would have done under his, and for this very reason; be- • cause, if brought forward.under his, it would have excited those who „were against the measure to a strong resistance, which is not so likely-to arise under the present Adminis tration., On Ibis question, toy . Lords, the public opinion hanigtelisktei‘invipseorttlai:nattceeme.iffunreacalta"s' State.swt e l system e I Y oi ft that 1 for al porta twn s Of tin was f MIS T the fe Cath , Chur tiona: very attaci •• his cc Estab s honli !lions Mr lity d Mr the Rai unto mit side die pr* upo bita of C and j and mon Cori neck tain4 or f Cow men