The Sun. — London, England, 1841-03-27 00:00:00

LS • __...... s 0 144 a q Y Cou ch e State- 55 °S ARIS• Paris 0.4,111 have it) t e 'aro , st bee' r f t. Ofe ° i s ent' oos 19'.;ghrc 1 f 8 e ' P v - %- h frorn e da *0 a or bl clu° f• av 3l1 r " b c f , at a reP" ,, N osner iip, r u° ). for• ilitY ° reY the P ,; t b war s • i$ llatio°its i° tad 5 s ee irg u ; b e d e ; „•00 the e t. lic: -I bs ect te''" it ly• 19 Ile' ow° unk ° )11 w ~,e c hy c wou r? fie ts9 the C - 1 -bil Sze , .00 the c h. blic ri bee Pu ping s"°' neve r elf 3 ve. r bra g b ed a r t` r ng ra ha sn it P il l t w gr ca. pt 311 rb9Psfor Kess i 'ocef I tbe n ' s (eti ins ° f riO ith ' UPC be` a c hoic e e d, e efelT tbe o 4 l ll iditl e of s g tb. 'er3jo h t beit atta in , As , npa r tv _a the B° - - T he in tea. ui ,b( t were P To", ICVe rtb i e . ofr furt ,ue e ve§ I th e°ls, l o' f tbe l ( of /as, Dr L"c , h,cout l-uiP 0 mit' " ‘a if he The w- hel he.. Ig , ° t l f be /." • ov ,ictor i of , ) " I ` fo rt. l l o , ° l , rale en! n o, dito il se 0 11 0 nities ° of , 0 0 % ; 00 0 , d for lishm e f ea rs ° t ba° less tres o " 3tt ie ..1 1*. p ra ng Co rr a t tb e f oioe unt o c tb ° rag e 1- VW ' , 111 0 u If 0 , we: a to ar , le 1.40 07 pUre " 1 . 0 th ° shiCb' re f an d t be ° 010 al oryg6 selb tbe ,11, Ito it , Was / _ IVIORIsriNti EDITION. •~.___ PE It IA L PARLIAMENT. Their HOUSE OF LORDS, MARCH 26. The _ l,, rchliips met ,t Frye o'Clock, jg n , ri of lio EBERY presented a petition from ht,hridge for the abet:noel of tolls upon the metropo "ten bridges-% fro l:ne . . Earl of BANDON presented a similar petition inttsase inhabitants of Finseury-square. e :_fers from the 'House of Commons brought up The er mite 13iiis, v. filch were read a fist time. pl ace - of L r eeNDON presented a petition from a against the grant to the College a petition front Bridgewater against t ° l l .e a o i a n goo l\4 o,7 f,' . l . l‘ d . from th e of idolatry in India ; also a petition in le l" r ig:tubers of iha medical profession in Spitalfields of the Drainage of Lands Bill. The Right et ,"_ Prelate also presentcd a petition from the clergy and tv7tied iishabitarsts of Skief‘Leld, praying that the House .. of , take some meesesre for securing the exemption wi ,t Christians ei Syria from the oppressions to b _r a h o tney are subject. His Lordship said that the mem pr'orfesf the aacieet Ch urc h es o f S yr i a were o bli ge d to ord er s , themselves members of the Romish Church, in Euror,ea ring therreelves under the protection of the a most fate de, He thought that there was at present 14'cud ' amble opportunity for the interposition of this as for eat in f emus- of use Christians of Syria, as well L, 3eivs in tt at regime es. Jra IfIELBOURNE said that this raatt.:r bad not 4 . l : l _Peli the a t en tr on o f Lee Majeets'e Goverrancre, and ures had been taken to secure for all the Christmes o . -lees of Syria the same protectien wh eh tee Fiencli e! a 'erornetst had uLquestionably precured ter the Roman holies in that part of the Tteleish empire.—(Hear.) is ": Duke ARGYLE gav e noti ce th a t so on af t e r oe re , Less, he would thing in a B:11 to settle the difference at Present ei,turhing the Church of Scotland. ts lli s e Archbi s h o p o f C anter b ury, t h e E ar l o f Sh a f tes b ury, brfscount Strangle rd, presented each several petitions ayour of the ab e d:, t i on o f t h e T o ll s on th e M etropo li tan g es. Lore se"" . We ns , e ANG FORD took that opportunity of in lloee °' t i ee Noble Lord at the head of her Majesty's ecis st - r - Y ln '.nt as to the state of the negotiation bete een this and France in respect to their commercial relations. b y e ogress MELBOURNE said that negotia'ions had been ogress up to a few months ago, welsh were disturbed Y. 4 misunderstandieg now happily at an crid.—( Hear.) 5; 44 t here was every reason to hope that these negotia -44411 would b e renewe d, an d that they would lead to an 4 : o ra p i igernerst between the two countries, which would pro. the 'e the free interchange of productions between them to great hem fit of botb.—(Elear, hear.) He was re •(°eictd to see that all parties, in this country at least-- h°P ra)—e ere desirous of maintaining a friendly un erleanciog with France,.—(Cherry.) ' The Cons o lid ate d F un d Bill was read a second time. 1 3 0 answer t o a question from Lord ELLEN ' In t e ,„ l4 ' Ma quis cf NORMANBY said that it was the in -11:1" of the Government to istroduce into the re: ser 1 4 , 4 ° of Parliamest a B ll for the general rege,',aeion of i l l l 3 :k.e trests. / 44 .h0 House then went into Commi' e ee upon the East RtMe Bill. • Af tt s rait tp a short discussion 'ate Bill passed through Corn -es and th e Report Wlls ordered to be brought up on oaday next. POOR-LAW COMMISSION (IRELAND.) 2 1 1 the motien of the Earl of Gt EN G ALL, Mr. e n der ens e aain called toe Bar. til t ? ' t ag:: Earl of GLE NG ALL—I have read the rinted Isti,"-ce as taken by the short-Land writer. There are a mistakes in it I wish to correct. s i e rr be witness then corrected them by repeating his ev-- te s ite e. We could not learn their effect, but understood 4 4 to relate to his evidence respecting Mr. Beeler. x.he wi'ness was then do lee to withdraw. L , 4l r. Earle was then tailed in and sworn. s w, '. l -sitiirei by the Reel cf ENG A LL—Was Com- Ib r "loner of Peer-laws in eland. Was in Dublin in Fe- th: ar Y 1839. Recsivod instructions from Lord MorFeei, oft; Persons lo be selected fcr the situation cf returning alre-eer'shor.ld be impartial men, if such could be found, I ss -i 'L'Y 'connected vtieh country offices. The selection fa r : i Llt to be confined to them ; but they were to be pre. p e t", whenever they wee men not connected with Frey I 11 , 4 4 ti eS• bid not recollect that in the unions if Cashel gb C hacrrn el , in the county of Tipperary, the high con `B, Mr. Farnell and Mr. Maunser, applied for the 01 7 o and were rejected. Did not recollect the particulars the correspondence which took place relative to the le°,intreent of Mr. Butler. He should have no recol intitewtto_n se . hate% e . r of the . trans . action, if it were not that he to Minute signed h les initials, on the back of a ter from Mr. Farnell ; but he had now no recollection 4 ° ether a lttt!r was written in conformity with that mi ti,u'ter•uctiMonrs. o S i tl i e tn y es w ,, as justified in departing from the if there was any thing in them 1 I t e r sP s ne ° o9 _, or not consistent eith the Lc'. On the lof Februr.ry witness xas absent from the offihe, te ll e tee he supposes that fie appare'it irregularity was s "`"'olicd by his absence. There was nothing extraor til:eY in a letter ereten ore day not being despatched till p ile4 r. Such a delay was net uncommon in public or p e ivat e office..—( A laugh.) From his experience of e ll t bli c offices, he should say, that it was " good luck" (I• e4 4 letter dated one day was despatched the next.— s:ar and a l aug h.) To say the with, he had 'sever bgh t it a matter of any importance in what terms such s ,;. t era were written when the Commissioners had de er h °led upon the appointment of the person recommended etvthe Assistant-Commisgioter. He should think any 011 nitwit from truth improper, and an adherence to truth 41 1 occasions important; but there Lever appeared to itanything in the circumstarces of this case with which tias necessary or worth while to charge his memory. t e , Merely performed the very bumble duty of direcFnie clerk to write the answers. He would not consider 4 0 improper liberty for any of his brother COLDIIIiF -411e,ra to m a k e alterations in the draft of a letter written Opt' el,"i•aa on the business of the office, if he happened eq to be f the way at the time, and the alteratim was ruired le, a regard fir truth and accuracy. He was in no respect elan • to the other Assistant-Commissioners, altbougb, It e absence of Mr. Nicholls, he was generally looked ti pl° by th e ot h ers f cr a d v ice, in consequence of his being si te r acquainted than most of them with the opinions and ~*of that gentl.man. 40 Lord FITZGERALD—It was quite possible that tea se sho u ld h ave a lt er ed his minute for this draft of a t lt e 'r upon such a case as this, and not remember after ro* that h e h a d d one so. He did not think the altera -0 was o' any importance. e 4 ° Lord G LENG A LL—Did recollect having some jPl'versation with Mr. Phelan on the subject of Mr. olt e appointment • but knew of nothing which could Brae him implicit confidence' in the affidavit of Butler - t Ot M r . Phelan took any more active part in promoting • aPpoint ment th an me ely writing the letter which ap • ed in t h e returns b e f o r e the House. Ni the M arqu i s o f NORMANBY When Mr. fictions was in that )üblin, witness had nothing to do with eters like now under the consideration of the M o use, and complaints might Le made of the conduct of sit "; Butler and other officers without his hearing any thing le:Lever about them. In the month of February, 1839, ""si f h branch of the Poor-law Co o- o t s o 'l. o o was excessive, and beyond the means of the office miseharg e with rerfect adequacy. More duty was e s t_ in that month, that office, than be had ever known "° done in a public office in the same time during the 4 Perien ce r f his whole life. 1 41 r ° Lord FITZGERALD—In several unions, wit- N i l and M r . Ph e l an coujoiutty bad recommended indi eet 416 who we re not county officers, to fill the situation of te l ling officers. They never passed over the county pis era unl e s s th e y f o und them to be stupid men or par. re o ' ll k The stupid men gave more trouble, and caused h t ,!e conf us i on an d annoyance t h an t h e p art i s ans. Wit ness oves that he did inquire of Mr. Phelan whether Mr. V e t t l i s t ler was a p erso n of strong party feelings, and that the t e ; w er was that he was not. Witness had now reason to , h `eve that Phelan was so. a 4O the Earl of GLENG A LL —Mr. Stanley had a foot right to make any alteration in the draft of the -s "), r o ill accordance with the facts required. s'o Lord MONTE AG LE—Practically, he believed the e o ,3ol Mendetion of the Assistant Commissioner and the ap- Isrlottnent of the returning-officer were practically one. Is s rLione to his appointment to the Irish Commission he M en been engaged under the English Poor-law Commis vs, ',in several counties of England. Had been pre tl private secretary to Lord Stanley. V et , ° ,the Earl of GLENGALL—He could see no mo flo;e'or the variation in the letter sent to Mr. Fennell 44 his draft. It was very important that :he returning ter should be an impartial man, so as to give satisfaction 411 Parties in the election of guardians. el, : 0 the Marquis of NORMA NBY—It was a matter of greatest d fficuliy to find men in the unions of ee n olsl and Cashel, who were not party'-men. These of ° ,, a loPlied were generally men who leaned to the party t c ,""° Goiernment. Mr. Nicholls and the Assistant -4,lraissioners congratulated themselves over and ever rn. that the Government did not inteisre in the ap tuaripeet of returning officets or in the election of the „ man s . Lord REDESDALE—BeIieved that tho Corn tile'loriers did their duty in appointing veld Butler upon h it : i ecolarnendations which they recei from Messrs. ei e ,":°Y and Hancock, and from the Assistant- Commis- Mr. Phelan. rn • u° wi'nes then ordered to withdraw, and on the ti • s was _ f' s ,,',° ll of the Marquis of Normanby, was excused from - 1, - ", e r r s ait'ndance. "ert e DUNCANNON presented a petition from Ti . Tkneirpi. raying for certain alterations of te Poor-1 " Lordships then adjourned at Seven aws. o'Clock. 1 10 USE OF COMMONS, MiitcH 26. I: 4° SPEAKE R having taken his set at the usual time, WORSLEY presented a petition from the Bir a ." 0 11 Canal Company praying to be heard by counsel g4Mst the Severn .Navigation Bill. MIDDLESEX SESSIONS BILL. 4 , the in h"E LA',.:Y EVANS presented a petition from kins abitants and parish-officers of St. Martin's West agaiest the ,Middlesex Sessions Bill. the r • er' GA LL Y KNIGHT moved that the petition from itgai rcPresel.titive vestry of the parish of St. George, Commit the Miettleex Sessions Bill, be re'errcd to the t he Co te e on the Bill ; and that it be an instruction to tirisr},),:ism.iltee that they have power to r_ceive and enter- C olon e l aid netition • - f ord a i l WOOD seconded the motion, in order to af filen" Parti es an o icrunity of expressing their senti ei,t,•‘3 uP Pilii the nieasur. e He understood that it had 13: ea v ern '''ellY stated to the promoters of the Bill that the Go ent would not oppose it, prenidcd the salary of . the Puhii, n ,' 44 was pi] out of the County-rates instead of the talt e - „ u "'d• 'Upon that asiuranee he had Bills induced to flo Lis s e 'Pen himself conduct of the through the its „ er ' i 4 r , (1 he t ruste d the House would deal with it upon tQ . and not be biased or influenced by the canvassing Prlr OX AULE wiseed t o sa y few WGC , S on the letter f ro the Nlcaller had stated thet h:Ii1 got li e ( Mr nt the Home-Alee on the subk:et of the Bill. Maulo) knew not what the contents of that • 22 ` % G -- - letter were; he would, however, state that the Home-affice refrained from opposing the second reading of the Bill for the purpose of giving an opportunity to the parties in tereaed in the matter making their case known; Mr. BYNG supported the reception of the Petition, because as there was no other Petition on the subject, Hon. Members would, by the rejection of the present one, be deprived of what they wanted; that was infor mation as to the truth of the allegations made in support of the bill. Mr. THOMAS DUNCOMBE said that the pe tition was signed by only four individuals who did not mention their having signed it on behalf of the vestry. It could therefore be received only as the petition of those four persons. There was nothing satisfactory as to its being a petition emanating from the vestry at large. A sentence bad been intro duced into the petition after it had been presented, which was, he conceived, a ground for its rejection on the score of the informality. He, as an individual, had no objection to the Bill. Aft,r a few words from Mr. GALLY KNIGHT the motion was withdrawn, and the Hon. Member present 'd a petition to the same effect fGm the sestrymen of the v_rish of St. Gecrge. BARN:: , I'APLE ROADS BILL. -- ------ Sir B. CHICHESTER brought up the Report on this Bill. Mr. FOX MAULE moved the insertion of certain clauses in the Bill, to the effect that tulle levied shoal i be devoted to the repair of the roads, and to the payment of the interest on the money borrowed. After some discussion which was inaudible in the Gal lery, the motion was agreed to. PL ANTA presented a petition from an individual praying to be heard by Counsel against the Blackwell Railway Bill. Sir fIUSSEY VIVIAN laid on the table certain re turns, which were ordered to be printed. NOTICE OF MOTION. Sir DE LACE Y EVANS gave notice of his inten tion to move certain amendments in the Committee on the Putr-law Amendirtut Bill. On the ruction of Sir Thomas FREMANTLE leave of absence was granted to Mr. Dawson Darner. DUTY ON WINE. Mr. MACKINNON begged to ask the Right Hon. Gentleman the President of the Board of Trade a ques tion in which gentlemen connected with the wine trade we e deeply interested. In the event of any commercial treaty taking place with France, and any reduction of the duty on wines taking place in consequence thereof, would the gentlemen connected xith the wine-trade who had their stock laid in be allowed the drawback? Mr. LA BOUCHE RE said it was not very regular or convenient to ask a cittestiau upon a treaty which had not yet been signed, or to state what course the Government intended to adopt, He had, however, no difficulty in statik'g as a - eheral principle that whe:e any reduction of duty w - es proposel the drawback would be allowed. WAKLEY wished to inquire of the Noble Lord the Seerctery fir the Colonies whether he was Frepared to support any proposition trade for altering the moc:e of the medical arrangement of the Ui-ions. Lord J. RUSSELL said he was disposed to oppose certain measures, but be could not state what those ow acorns were, or what might be the nature of his opposition with out entering in tome degree into an argument on the sut ject. He was not justified, therefore, he conceived, in saying further th.n that there were ce taie enaeadasents which seemed to him objectionable. He could not be prepared on every subject, with respect to the argu ments, which mi g ht b e stated.--( Hear, hear.) He hai finally made up his mind on the subject, and he hoped the House would excuse him from replying to every suggestion or argument that might be advanced on the question. Mr. WA KLEY said that it was kind of the Noble Lord to listen ti whet might Le advanced on the question. The suggestions on the medical amendments were at least three el- tour years known to the House, and ti-e Noble Lord, he thought, ought to be sufficiently conversant with teem to give the required information. The Hon. Member then gave notice that he would submit a Motion on the subject on Monday week. In answer to a question from Mr. PA KINGTON, with respect to the intention of Government relating to the Colony of Newfoundland, Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that he was not pre pat ed to state the course he proposed to be adopted with respect to the Colony ; but when he received, as he expected he would in the course of a few weeks, the de spatches of the Governor of the Colony regarding the course of proceedings in its Legislative Assembly, he would then state to the House, in reply to the inquiries made, the course intended to be adopted by the Govern ment with regard to that colony. In answer to a question from Sir R. FEEL, Lord J. RUSSELL said that it was his intention to postpone for the present the further consideration of the Bill relating to the registration of voters in Et-gland. He did not intend to bring it before the House until the Bill for the Registration of Voters in Ireland had been previ ously discussed. POOR-LAWS. The Order of the Day having been moved for the Com mitlee on the Poor-law Amendment Bill, Mr. THOMAS DUNCOMBE preented a petition from the parish of St. Luke's against the Bill, and a peti tion from an individual, praying that the weights used in workhouses might be subject to the same supervision as the weights t f tradesmen. _ . Lord MAHON presented a petition, numerously signed, from the borough of Hertford, complaining of several clauses of the Bill, and especially of those which related to the continuance of the Commissioners, IA hose powers they con sidered excessive, and whose conduct they regarded as harsh. Mr. HA WES presented a petition from the Guardians ,4.'' • ud, inftwant.of the Bill= Mr. -TC s• • T and Mr. BROTHERTON also presente • aon the subject. Mr. SDITC H presented a petition from Mac clesfield against the Bill. Mr. GORING presented a petition from the Union of Staines, Surrey, against certain clauses of the Bill. Mr. WAKLEY presented a petition from Bingley in Yorkshire, against the Poor-law Bill. The petitioners stated that they viewed with horror the cruelties inflicted on the poor under the new Peor-law Act, and were struck with dismay at the proposition of the Government to continue its tyrannical power for five years longer. They stated that the Commissioners had exercised their power with such severity as almost to excite a rebel lion in the country, and they earnestly prayed that the House would not enact the Bill into a law, and that the Poor-law Commission might cease. The Honourable Member also presented a petition from Bucklebury, condemning tho separation of relations in workhouses, and complaining of the manner in which medical relief was administered ; and they also prayed that the Bill might not be passed into a law. Petitions against the Bill were also presented by the HON. NIEMBER, signed by 300 rate-payers of a place in Leicestershire, and by three clergymen and twenty-five rate-payers in Lane End, in Leicestershire. Lord SANDON had a petition to present, which he had been informed was signed by 40,000 or 50,000 persons. —(The Noble Lord did not state from what place the petition came, but we presume it was from Liverpool). The petitioners stated that they looked with apprehension to the imposition of the provisions of the Poor-law Act upon themselves—that they had been exempted for seven years from what they termed the yoke of the Poor-law Commissioners ; that they had been for twenty years under the operation of Sturges Bourne's Act, under which the rates had been reduced from ss. 6d. to Is. sd. in the pound ; and they prayed the House to introduce such a clause into the Poor-law Bill as would exempt them from its provisions. Mr. L ANGD AL E presented a petition signed by be tween nine and ten thousand Roman Catholic inhabi tants of Manchester and Salford, praying that the Roman Catholic paupers in Union Workhouses might be per mittedto receive religious consolation from Ministers of theirown faith. Also a petition, with a similar prayer, from the Roman Catholic inhabitants of the metropolis. Colonel G. LANGTON presented a petition from some place in Somersetsbire praying for alterations in the Poor-law Bill. Mr. HOGG presented a petition from Beverley, praying for alterations in the Poor-law Bill. Mr. TURNER presented a petition from Blackburn against the New Poor-law Bill. Copt. PECrIELL said the Right Hon. Baronet, the Member for Tamworth, had intimated to the Noble Lord on Wednesday last that ceitain amendments would be necessary in order to guard parishes which were under Local Acts from the interference of the Commis sioners. By the present Bill the boat-ds of guardians had the power to dissolve the union by a majo rity of votes. But the Right Hon. Baronet suggested that there ought to be an equal power vested in the board of guardians, to unite with parishes which had been united with others. The town of Brighton was governed by a Local Act. A neighbouring parish was under the power of the Pocr-law Commissioners—it was joined to a union. Now, that parish might be dissolved by a majority of the guardians, and if the guardians of the pa rise of Brighton had not the power to refuse to be joined with another parish, the Poor-law Commissioners might bring the town of Brighton under their Government. He hoped that the Noble Lord would provide not only that the Gilbert Unions and unions so situ cod should not be dissolved without the consent of the majority of the guardians, but also that no parish should be added to another parish for the sake of forming a union under the Poor-law Commissioners. The SPEAKER then left Chair, and the House went into Committee on the Poor-law Bill; Mr. BER NALL la the Chair. Mr. GRANVILLE SOMERSET begged to ask the Noble Lord whether it was his intention to introduce a separate clause with regard to the reduction of the number of Assistant Poor-law Commissioners ? Lord JOHN RUSSELL replied in the affirmative. On elam. , e 2 being read, Mr. FIELDEN (who spoke from the Opposition side of the House) rose to move the insertion of the words " and are hereby repealed..' The object of his amendment was to repeal the Poor -lacy Amendment Act, and he should take the sense cf the House upon it.—( Hear.) Lord J. RUSSELL understood that the Hon. Mem ber was going to propose an amendment to repeal the Poor law Amendment Act. He wished to know if that was the object of his amendment. Mr. FIELDEN hoped the Noble Lord would listen to his statement. He was moving the introduction of words 1 which, if adopted by the Committee, would go to repeal the Poor-law Act. —( Haar, hear.) The CHAIRMAN understood the object of the Hon. Member's amz , ndment was to repeal the Poor-law Amend ment Act. But he conceived such motion was irregular under the title cf the Bill then before tine Committee. After a few words from Mr. FIELDEN, which were inaudible in the Gallery, The CHAIRMAN said the object of the Hon. Mem ' bet's amendment was to repeal e exiting Poor le,w, whereas V - ie WIL to to clauFe of which he • moved thut amendment, was to continue that law. Such ti "f" Mr. FIELDEN said, that as to the irregularity of the course of proceeding, he had nothing to do yfiE SUN, ' lJONl ' in ' sf,...4l 4 .. Citifixt 3 . MAitu ri7 2, 7 , I_ B4l with it.—( Hear, hear, and a laugh.) Fre hid Oita notice of the amendment, tnd be therefore considered that he bed a right to be heard on it. Lord J. RUSSELL said that the Hon. Member could riot, under the title of the Biil, move the amendment he proposed. The Honourable Member was entitled to ask leave to bring in a Bill to repeal the Poor law, but as the object of the present Bill was to continue the Poor-law in existence, and as that Bill had been read a second tirre, and the House was now in Com mittee, considering how that object could be best carried into effect, the Hon. Gentleman could not, according to the usages of the House, propose an amendment to the Bill, purporting to repeal that law. The Hon. Gentleman might as well move the repeal of the Habeas Corpus Act. Mr. WA KLE Y was as strongly opposed to the Act as his Hon. Friend the Member for Oldham. He thought the measure an odious and detestable one. Nevetheless, in the performance of their labours, he thought it absolutely necessary that they should adhere to certain rules and regulations. lie would therthro recommend to his Honourable Friend to withdraw the motion for the present, if he found it inconsistent with the usual 'practice. Besides, his Hon. Friend should remember that that was not a fitting occasion, as it appeared to him (Mr. Wakley), for bringing the entire subject under consideration, as many Members who were opposed to the Act might not have been prepared f,r such a di,cassioe. The CHAIRMAN said that the motion was certainly contrary to the prac ice of the House, to which it was his duty to conform. it ROBERT PEEL said that undoubtedly the ques tion then was, whether or not the motion was it, conformity with the rules of the Houoe. It did nct appear t.. him that it was. Leave had been given to bring i s a 13111 for the continuance of the Commission, which the proposed amendment would do away with altogether. He was clearly of opinion, thers fore, that the motion could not be entertained. Mr. WAKLEY thought that if the proposition of his Lion. Friend was contrary to the rules of the House, then he would be wrong to persevere in it, but if it were merely contrary to the practice of the House he would be right to persevere in it, because tie more frequent the practice of the House was violated the better it would be for the public. The CHAIRMAN was very sorry to hear whit had just fallen from the Honourable Member. He ought to be well aware that unless attention wai paid to certain rules and regulations—( Hear, hear, from Mr. Wakley)_their proceedings must inevitably become a' scene of confusion. —( Loud cheers.) If he were asked if there were any rules fur the government of Committees, he would reply that there were none, but such as could be gathered from the Journals and printed proceed ings of the House; bast that there were rules for the eo vernment cf Committees could not be doubted, which rules were to be gathered from the experience of attentive Members, who had been in the habit cf attending those Committees; and so long as he had had the honour of filling that cha;r he had never heard a doubt expressed that there were regulations on tee subject, nor had such regu lations ever in the slightest degree been questhred. Mr. Fl EL DEN—There is no rule then.—( Loud cries of " Chai-, chair, orde , order.") Am Ito be allowed to address the House er not? if not, she. I I go down to my constituents at Oldham and tell them that I am not t 5 be allowed to do so ? I was sent here an a repiesenta tive of that borough, every man of which objects to this law; there is not one but what is indisposed to the law; so much so, that not one of them would carry a veil; paper for guardians ; they could not even get the burn bailiff to carry a voting paper for guardians. Lord J. RUSSELL rose to order. The Hon. Gen tleman was out of order in discussing the quention.— ( Cheers.) The rule cf the House had been stated by the Chairman, and it was not of the least importance whether the rule of the House appeared printed with the regula tions cf the Standing Orders, or whether it was a rule de duced from the constant practice of the House ; in either case it was equally binding ; and the Hon. Gentleman had no right therefore to bring forward the amend. meat of which ho had given notice, or to proceed with the discussion on which he had attempted to enter. The Hon. Gentleman endeavoured to create a prejudice against the House, by saying that he would have to go and tell his constituents that he was net allowed to be heard on that occasion. The lion. Member was perfectly at liberty at any day that he thought proper to move for leave to bring in a Bill totally different from that Mote the House. If he succeeded in carrying that Bi,l, and the House of Lords agreed with him, the Poor-law Amendment Act would be totally repealed. The Hon. GereVeman's constituents should be informed that the Hon. Gentleman would have a perfect and fair opportunity, whenever he pleased, upon a regular day, and upon regu lar notice, of bringing forward that question. But the Hon. Gentleman had no right to set aside all the rules of the House, and to proccede in a course which he ought to know was irregular; and then, because he was prevented from netting at defiance all the rules of the House, and throwing the whole of the discussion into confusion, to tell his constituents that which was not true ; namely, that he had ,not had an opportunity of addressing the House on that subject. _ _ _ Mr. VIE LDE N said a few words in explanation. We understood the Hon. Member to say t'lat he hai intended to state his reasons for altering the rule of the House. Mr. W YNN said the Hon. Member was not at li berty to assign reasons at that time for altering the rule f the House. The rule in such cases was stringent. The Committee of the whole House wes no less subject to the orders of ti.e House than a Select Committee. nished txith information as to what extent parishes having local Acts bad been included in the operation of the Poor law Act. It would also be a fair question to be considered, whether a parish ha:ving 20,000 or 30,000 inhabitants, and haVing a local Act, should be exempted from the operation of the Poor-law Act.—( Hear, hear). But at present the House was in such want of information upon the subject, that be thought the better way would be to have the clause postponed. —( Hear, bear.) Mr. EDWARD E L LICE, in illustration of what the Right Hon. Baronet had mentioned, instanced the city he represented (Coventry) That city was governed by a local Act, and the affairs of the poor had been very satis• fActotily administered under it. He hoped that some little time would be taken to consider the clause.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. LEADER said the House must ktel satisfied that of er the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet the Noble Lord would be compelled to give way, and postpone the clause.—(" Ilea-, hear," and " Oh, oh")—for they all knew that in fact the Government existed only upon the forbearance of the Right Hon. Baronet—(Cheers)—and whenever he chose to make any suggestion the Govern ment were obliged to submit to it.—(Continued cheers.) When the Right Hon. Baronet proposes that the Corn tri,sion should be continued for five years only instead of ten, the Noble Lord was obliged to give way.—( Hear, hear.) In Westunimster there was a very strong feeling respe:ting this cause. No complaint had been made of the parishes which were governed under local Acts in Westrciuster, and as there was great ambiguity or dis honetty in the there ought to be a declaratory clause respecting parishes that were governed by local Acti. Mr. FOX MA UL E thought there was some misun derstand.iiz with r, Ba r d t o th e powers of the Commis sioners is respect of local Acts. In the parish of St. Pancras, for instance, the Commissioners hsd the power of superiatendirg the regulation of the workhouse, but they could not by law interfere with the electoral consti tution of the board of guardians under the local Acts. That was precisely the position in which the Poor-law Commissioners stood. Lord SANDON hcped that the Noble Lord would allow thosa parishes that had local Acts to retain their power of self-government. The lx,rough of Liverpool, from which he had presented a petition that evening, was governed by a local Act to the satisfaction of the rate payers, and the receivers of relief. Lord HO WICK did not rise to object to the postpone ment of the clause, for he thought it desirable that it should be postponed, a; he conceived it required some amendment. He bad no objection to deprive the Poor law Commissioners of the power of altering the or ganization of lcctl boards of guardians, but he was anxious that whatever alterations were proposed they should not be carried so far as to deprive the Commissioners of the power, and authority which he considered indispensa ble, of super intending and controlling the manner in which relief was administered by those local boards of guardians, however constituted, and whether existing under Local Acts or the Poor-law Amendment Act. It was of great importance that the Commissioners should have that gene ral power of superintending the administration of the Poor law. So far from agreeing with the Hon. Memker for Coventry (Mr. Ellice) that the Poor-law was well admi i htcred under local Acts in large towns, he (Lord H.) feared that the contrary was the case. In those places the rincipal inhabitants were not in the habit of looking after those matters so much as they ought, and, in consequence, the concerns of the poor fell into the hands of persons who were liable to no responsieility, and hence many abuses originated. Some of the newspapers were in the habit of dii ectirg attacks against the Poor-law—in many instances those attacks were, no doubt, made indiscriminately. How ever, pith respect to Coventry, it was lately stated in one of 'hose journals that abuses to a frightful extent were pre vailing in the workhouse there. So much for what the lion. Member for Coventry stated.—( A laugh.) The statement of the newspapers was, in all probability, without foundation. But the real fact ought to be made out, and it was of importance that there should be some central authori y which would inquire into the existence or non-existence of abuses when thus alleged as having taken place. On a late occasion a number cf improper females were sent out to Aus tralia, agreeably to a decision which the Local Board of Merylebone had come to. It was the casting vote of the Chairman which decided the question in that cane. Nothing could be more improper in his (Lord Howick's) opinion, than sending out those females to that colony. That and many other cases would, he thought, go far to prove that they should be careful in amending the clause at present under consideration. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that they would destroy the efficiency of the Bill if they prevented the Commissioners having the power to superintend the ad ministiation of the Po, r-law in large parishes. Sir B. HALL thought that tree effect of the clause would be to leave the Commissioners exactly in the pos session of the same powers as they enjoyed under the pre vious Act. He concurred in the opinion that the clause ought to be postponed. He hoped, therefore, the metro polliae parishes would be exempted from the operation of the Bill. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said with regard to what had een stated respecting putting the House in possession of a statement of the number of pat ishes under local Acts, he answered at once that there was such an account, and that it would be convenient to have it laid upon the table of the House. It contained an account of 364 parishes under general Acts, and of eleven under separate local Acts. He did not think the Poor-law Commissioners would endeavour to do that indirectly which they could not do otherwise, and there could therefore be no objection to its being forbidden by the Act. He, therefore, should not object to postpone the clause.—( Hear, hear.) He agreed in all that had been stated by the Noble Lord the Member for Northumberland. Mr. WAK LE Y said he hoped the Noble Lord would also not object to a return, stating on what grounds legal proceedings had bean commenced against parishes, in order that the expense might be avoided in future. Captain PECHELL thought the House should also be informed of the numbers of parishes incorporated under Gilbert's Act. There were 2'38 with a population of two millions. The Noble Lord shook his head, but there were 2,055,000 under the local Acts and Gilbert's Act, and eleven millions under the rates and regulations of the Poor-law Commissioner-. Mr. HAWES thought the same favour ought to be shown to large parishes, such as Lambeth, as to those ac cidentally in possession of local Acts. Justice should be done to all, and ho therefore put in a claim for them. Mr. HODGSON HINDE thought the Hon, Gentle man . should carry out hi s pr i nc iple of exemption further, and join those who were desirous of exempting the parishes altogether from the power of the Commissioners. Sir DE LACY E VANS thought the case brought forward by the Noble Lord (Lord Howick) was but slight ground on which to found a charge of misgovern ment against parishes, and to call for more stringent sur , Mr. GROTE said the lion. Gentleman had misunder stood the Noble Lord (Lord Howick) who bad merely said that cases such as he had cited, showed the necessity of exercising the same authority in large as well as small parishes. After a few words from Sir A. DALRYMPL E, Mr. MUNTZ said he could not see why the Commis sioners should interfere in the large towns any more than they did with Municipal Corporations. The motion for postponement was then carried. On clause 4, _ _ . M. HODGSON HINDE, moved that the word "every " should be left out, and " no " substituted. (The clause regards the construction of the words " rule, older, and regulation.") He thought they were bound to go much more into the roles and regulations of tl.e Commis sioners, than they had done at present. It was not right to _hand over the poor to three individuals to Le''. dealt with necerding to their pleasure. With regard to the aged and iefirm married men and women, the Poor-la,v Commissioners had not at first car stem of separation, but tbey had subse ried out their sy quently taken away all discretion from the board of guardians on the subject, and had carried out the system of separation to a cruel extent, insisting upon t'ie separa tion except under special circumstance=, of which the Com missioners alone were to judge. lie also objected to the separation of eh ldren from their parents, who were their natural guardians; there was also an unnecessary strict ness observed in prohibiting the inmates of workhouses from h sing interviews with their friends and relatives. He thought it extremely harsh to lay down down a rule such as that laid down by the Commissioners with regard to diet—that the diet of the pauper should never exceed ie creaetity or quality that of the able-bodied labourer. There ought to be a great discretion left to the guardians on all these subjects. lie could not give his confidence to the Commissiuners, because be observed on their part con stant endeavours to extend their powers. They had at tempted by their orders to set aside even some of the pro vi,ioes of the Poor law Act itself, particularly those giving to the guardians the power of affording out-door relict. The lion. Gentleman concluded by moving the omission of the word "every" from the clause, and substituting the weed " no." Lord J. RUSSELL said that it appeared to him that the tendency of the Hoo. Member's motion would be to cenfine the authority of the Commissioners to the forma tion of unions, while he would take away from them all control over their pr oceedin g s. Th ere could be no doubt of the abuses of the old s y stem when the guardians had ',eel left to their own discretion. The House as well as the country hiving become sensible of those abuses, it was g t e h m o e ug that the measure then atht, while they formed the thought advisable te form a Commissio n , w hi c h wou ld im maHnea adopted had hithe rto succeeded. He would not undertake to justify every a ct of the Commissioners, but he thou g ht parishespr •e th the into system t unions. 0 n of that in general their conduct had proceeded on wise and just principles, and was neither inhuman nor tyrannical.— ( Hear, hear.) That was the course, he repeated, which the House had already adopted, and they had no other choice left them unless they allowed the guardians to take their o.sn course, and to follow their own will and discre tion. He bad no doubt but that many boards of guardians would in that case go on steadily, acting on enlightened views; but he was equally persuaded that many others would, for the sake cf gratifying popular feeling, return to the abuses of the old system, while there would be no power which could correct that evil. As it appeared to him that the motion of the Hon. Gentleman would have that tendency, he certainly could not think it would be wise on the part of the House to adopt it. Let them look to the conduct of the Commissioners which had boa) pronounced to be so harsh and oppressive. He found that in the quarter ending in Lad) - -day, 1840, the number of paupers who had received in-door relief in England alone was 134,000, and in England and Wales, 143,356 while the number who had received out-doer relief amounted to 747,000.—(Hear-) The number of able bodied persons alone who had received such relief was 93,134. He thought that these facts did not prove any undue severity on the part of the Commissioners. The Noble Lord then concluded by expressing his determina tion to oppose the amendment, Mr. HODGSON HINDE expressed his conviction that the flease itself s hould lay down the rules for the re , {;ol,tio:L of the linotlF, and not . !.e. t v e , sba frank; of th e m Ito the Commisesieners , Mr. WARD said that he would be a very mistaken friend of the poor who would hold out to them a cer tain prospect of ease and comfort in a workhouse, matter what their previous conduct might be. The work ing men should be taught above all things to look to them selves and their own exertions. He believed, therefore, that the discussions which had taken place in that Huse might be attended with an injurious eff,..ct, inasmu.:ll as they would create false expectations in the minds of many of the poorer classes. With regard to the conduct of the Commissioners, he thought that in very difficult circum stances they had acted on the whole wisely and humanely. They had, no doubt, committed mistakes, but he was per suaded that there were fewer than might have been ex pected in their position. He did not think the dieta-y tables were so very meagre as stated by the Hon. Mem ber; there were six dietary tables from which the guar dians might choose, and when he found eiat the cost cf a man, his wife, and four children was 11s. 3A-4., and took into consideration the wages obtained by an-agricul tural labourer, he did not think the system deserved the censure of the Hon. Member. Sir H. FLEET WOOD said the Magistrates of the county and boards of guardians generally complained of the dictation of the Commissioners. General JOHNSTON said there never was a law which had given s) much dissatisfaction as the Poor-law Amendment Act. He saw no reason why the whole of the poor in England should be left to the caprice of the Commissioners at Somerset-house. Lord G. SOMERSET could not vote for the amend ment of his Hon. Friend ; he could not agree to abolish the powers of the Commissioners unless some other con trolling power were established. At the same time he felt bound to say that the unpopularity of the law was owing to the manner in which they had carried it into effect.—( Hear, hear.) Their arrogance was too pest ; they had interfered too much in many things which ought to have been out of their consideration. Still he did not think their power ought to be abrogated. Lord JOHN RUSSELL believed there never had been appointments made by the Government vi i•h more anxious care than those of the Poor-law Commissioner!. —( Hcer, hear.) One of them, it was well known, was of opposite principles to himself; another hal been secre tary to a Noble Lord, whom he did not then see in his place ; and the third was not of any very marked political principlee —( Hear, hear). lie had seen nothing in their conduct which had ever made him regret the appointment of these gentlemen.—( Cheers.) He believed they were all well acquainted with the practical working and details of the measure, and they had adopted the very wisest and most judicious principles for carrying the provisions of of the law into effect. With respect to the charge of arrogance, he realiy - did not think that they had laid theei seise' open to any such imputation. They had cer tainly a very disagreeable duty to discharge ; and where the great objects of the Act were to reform abuses and to reduce useless and extravagant expenditure, it could not be pleasant to the parties whose power was about to be taken away from them to have the law strictly and impartially administered.—( Hear, hear.) It was sup posed by some persona that these gentlemen were actuated by the most harsh and tyrannical feelings, and that they felt a reluctance to make any concessions to the unfortu nate paupers who were placed under their control ; but if Hon. Members would look at the Reports w hicks had been laid upon the table of the House, in which they pointed out the important duties they had to perform, and the improve. meats that had taken place in the moral and intellectual condition of the people, they would find that they had most conscientiously and honestly discharged one of the highest and most important duties that had ever been conferred upon any body of men, and that, instead of being subjected to odium and abuse, they were deserving the admiration and respect of that House and the country. —( Loud cheers.) Lord SANDON did not think the Hon. Members on his si ;e of the House should be prevented from question ing the mode in which the Poor-law was administered by these gentlemen. He thought the observations of his Noble Fr:end (Lord G. Somerset) were fully borne out by the fact, and he believed there was no instance in which any party who conscientiously opposed the Poor-law Amends. eat Bill had not been run down end assailed by the Poor-law Commissioners.—( Hear, hear.) He would remind the Noble Lord (J. Russell) that the sole function of the Commissioners was not to reduce and limit expen diture—they were bound to see that the wants of the poor were attended to, but there was no case of the kind on record.—( Hear, hear.) Whenever a charge of cruelty or oppression was brought against an officer intrusted with the administration of the Pool-law, the Commissioner who was sent down always appeared as the protector of the rff.:nding party. He believed these gentlemen were too much the slaves of a certan theory, which induced them to throw overboard and sacrifice their private f• e'- ings and the comforts of the poor. He admitted that a large discretionary power should be placed in the hands of the Commissioners, but he thought there ought to be some restrictions imposed upon them. He should, there fore, oppose the amendment of his Hon. Friend. Sir H. VERNEY could assure his Noble Friend that there were many instances is which the Commissioners had iaterfi red for the purpose of promoting the comforts of the poor.—( Hear, hear.) He could assure the House that they had done a great deal of good in the district with which he was connected, and that they had discharged the duty with which they wero entrusted. faithfully and ' zealously. Mr. HA LFORD, although he had never taken part in the ag tetion that had taken place with regerl to the Poor-law Bill, ha I felt it his duty to vote agenist it, and, acting on the same principle, he should support the amendment of his Hon. Friend. His great objection to the Bill was the system which had teen adapted uf per petuatioo the leaner of the Commissioners, when it was originally' understood that they were only to be used as auxiliaries in establishing the provisions of the Act, and then to be discortinued. He did not think there was any necessity for the establishment of a central author:ty to in.- terfere ette.cen the poor and their natural protectors the rich. Mr. GALL Y KNIGHT wished to take an opportu nity of s'atir.g in reply to what had been mentioned by the 1 Hon. Member opposite ( Mr. Wakley) relative to the Bistford union, that he (Mr. Gaily Knight) had it upon the authority cf one of the guardians of that union, who was not a friend of the Poor-law, that the circumstances connected a ith that c Ise were founded on a misapprehen sion of the order of the Commissioners, relatieg to medical men. He thought the Commissioners had shown them selves desirious that proper allowances should be made to the poor, with respect to outdoor relief and otherwise. He confessed, however, that he would be better satisfied if the legislative powers of the Commissioners 'were some what abridged. Mr. SL ANEY rose to defend the characters of the Poor-law Commissioners trom what he conceived to be an unmerited attack upon them. The Noble Lord opposite ( Lord Sandon) had given all due praise to their private characters, but he cast much obloquy on the character of these gentlemen in their public station. He (Mr. Taney) contended that the aged poor were greatly benefited by the orders and regulations of the Commissioners, whose duties were of a 'nest difficult nature, and were performed by them to the best of ther power, and with advantage to the poor. He insisted that they did not merit the censure cast upon them. WAK LEY submitted to the House that it appeared to him to be occupied in discussing a matter that was not before them. Tho business of the House was to discuss the clauses of the Bill—( Hear, hear)—and not to discuss the private and personal charac ters of the Commissioners.—(H;ar, hear.) He never heard, since he had been in that House, any individual, whatever might be his feelings with regard to the Poor law, threw out any imputation whatever agerinst the cha_ racters of the Commissioners, or of any servant of the Com nrissianers. He was sure, whatever might be tire feelings of any individuals in that House, they would re frain from any attacks of that kind, seeing that those parties were not in the House to defend them ' selves.. For his own part be knew of no circumstance prejudicial to the characters of the Commissioners, or of any persons in their service, and he felt great plea sure in making that statement. With respect to what had been stated by the Hon. Member for Nottingham shire (Mr. Gaily Knight), he (Mr. Wakley) begged to remind tire Hon. Member thet that was an explana tion and not a refutation. The order alluded to did exist, and tire medical officers had applied for six suc cessive weeks to the Chairman, entreating him to have the order rescinded. The Chairman acknowledged that such was the fact. The order, however, was main tained. He had it upon the authority of the medical attendant in the parish of Paddington, that ho could not order wine or other aliments without rho sanction of the union. Ile also learned from the same medical gentleman that the aged poor under the old system used to receive eq. a week each, and he (Mr. Wakley) made it his business to inquire of some of those old persons what were the allowances under the present system; he was informed le, 61. a week, a pound of beef, and a loaf of bread. He had also asked Mr. Philpots if Ire ordered wine or other stimulants to patients, did he believe that they would be given ? Mr. Philpots replied that lie thought they would be given for a short time, and then withdrawn, and that the patients would be told they should go to the workhouse or forfeit those allowances. Now he (Mr. Wakley) had learned from many of these old and miserable creatures that they would sooner starve than go to the workhouse. The Hon. Gentleman concluded by stating that be would have several additional facts to lay before the House on Monday next regarding the rules of the Com missioners, which he would show were repugnant to humane feeling and common sense, and by stating that the speeches delivered in that House in opposition to the con tinuance of the law, would have no useful effect com pared with that which would arise from Hoe. Members re cording their votes on the journals of the House. Lord HOWICK said that it was complained of the other evening in the House that a rule was made in the Bastford Union prohibiting, even in cases of emergency, the medical officer from administering wine rind other stimu lants to patients ; that in order to do so the medical officer should refer for permission to the board of guardians ; that great delay arose in consequence, and that in ono instance, owing to that delay, death was produced. Now he held in his hand resolutions come to by the whole board of guar dians of that union on tire 23d of February last, denjiag the existence of such an order. The Noble Lord then read extracts from the resolutions referred to, and con tended that !hey proved how necessary it was to scrutinize and inquire into statements thus put forth. He thought it due to the board of guardians of that union to make this explanation. Mr. HAMILTON thought the powers now entrusted to the Commissioners ought only to be exercised by the Legislature of the country. He did not suppose that any Member would stand up and advocate a restoration of the old Poor-law.—(Cheers.) He certainly would not, but the unrefuted statements which had been made to the House ought to make them pause before entrusting unli mited powers to the Commissioners. Colonel ROLLE STON characterized the document read by tire Noble Lord, the Member for Northumber land, as a most adroit attempt to get rid of the effects of the statement be (Colonel R.) bad made the other tvo,ning That se te 7.•.nt, however, eras supported by I ;1 , 0 0a,015 of three individuals, and by the statement v.:ad,' by the surgeon to him (Colonel R.) in the face of the board of guardians, then and there assembled for she Purpose of , in s ve c s o t n ig t a ra ti d n i g ,c.4te t nd ha l t t s h ‘ a C e i c cs y t ai casenl could rot a n ct d fott h n e o t o the geon. He (Colonel Roue.— be so, and one of the guardians said it ;:";.s true, for one of his own paupers had bren refused nourishrat.;:: on a surgeon's order just previously. The statement was a mere play upon words ; it was true no order had been i given, because ti,e term order was applied exclusively to what was writer' in the book, and the injunction the sur geon had received was a verbal one. He was glad the subject had been Lrought forward, because he thought that such things would not now again occur. He would, however, advise his Hon. Friend not to stir more in the matter, because this was not the only instanee, and if that course of contradiction were pursued he should feel it his duty to bring those matters forward. Mr. C. WOOD hoped the matter would not drop, for a more extraordinary case of contradiction he never beard. Now, how the fact stat rd in the resolution of the Board, that the surgeon had ordered wine and meet for others, which were supplied between Dec. 28, and Feb. 8, could be reconcilable with the existence of the rule al luded to, he could not imagine. These were facts, or they were not. If true, those tacts could be ascerteinGd; and those facts proved what the practice was better than any orders could do. Sir ROBERT PEEL sail, supposing the surgeon was chargeable with misstatements, supposing the guar dians were chargeable with misstatements, and that it was impossible to get at the truth amidst this contradictory evidence, was it safe to ent.ust the administration of the Poor-laws to guardians alone ?—(Cheer s•) He vi ibed to see the Commissioners continued as a tribunal to which the poor man might appeal, as well as a power for regulating the guardians, and he was convinced that at present to do away with the Commissioners would not be consistent with the interests of humanity.—(Loud cleers. ) Mr. W. DLINCOMiIE said that tie argument of the Right Hon. Baronet went to perpetuate the Commission. Now no similar cases.of inhumanity had occarred in places not under the jurisdiction of the Commission. Petitions from all parts of the country had been presented against the Bill. There was no evidence that the Bill had ele vated the character of the labouring classes. It made po verty a crime, and embittered the feelings of the poor.— (The lion. Gentlemaa sat down amidst loud cries of " Divide, divide.") Mr. BLACKSTONE denied the necessity of having Commissioners to superintend boards of guardians (which had been contended for by the Right Hon. Baronet), and contended that the guardians were more competent to ad minister the law than the Poor-law Commissioners. Mr. FIE L DEN said that had the Commissioners exer cised their power is favour of the poor man, he could have forgiven for a time the power with which they had been invested ; but instead of being a board of appeal for the poor man, as they ought to have been, according to the Right Hon. Baronet, they had unfairly exercised their power to oppress the poor man. He did not blame tiie Commissioners, but he blamed the House that passed the law giving them power. Mr. HODGSON LUNDE replied. Those who wished to give the Commissioners the power of legislation would vote against the amendment he had proposed; those who wished to deny them such a power would vote fir it. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that the amendment of the Hon. Member would take away altogether from the CommLsoners Cie power of making any regulations. The House then divided when the numbers were— For the Amendment Against the Amendment 11 , N ,, rity against the Amendment ... —l5O Mr. RICE then moved the following amendment on the clause—" And be it enacted, that every rule, order, or regulation of the Poor-law Commissioners which shall be issued after the passing of this Act, and which shall apply to the amount or description of relief to be gieen to the poor, or to their management in any workhouse, shall be deemed to be a general rule subject to all the provisions relating to general rules contained in the Act first herein recited ; and such rule, order, or r:gulation shall be ac companied by the minutes or instructions of the said Com missioners, issued in explanation of such order, and every other rule, order, or regulation of the said Commissioners shall be deemed a particular order, notw itbstancling that such rule, order, or regulation shall, at the time of issuing the same, be addressed by the sad Commissioners to more unions than one, or to more parishes or places than one." In answer to a queition from 1,.,rd G. SOME RSE Mr. RICE said, that he meant his clause should apply to all orders for the relief of the poor both inside and out side the workhouse. _ . Sir Er KNATC lIBULL observed that it was a singu lar fact that although the Commissioners had been so many years in office they had laid on the table only five general rules. In answer to a question from Mr. G. PALMER, Lord J. RUSSELL said it was true that few general rules were laid up :n the table of the House, or made by the Poor-law Commissioners, and the Noble Lord pro ceeded to explain the reason why, but his observations, in cons, quenee of the great noise which prevailed in the House, were ❑ot heard in the gallery. The clause pro posed was one to bring before Parliament all general rules applicable to any class of cases. He thought his lion. Friend's clause would effect that object with more cer tainty. He did not think the amendment proposed more definite, but that it would give rise to confusion. Mr. J. JONES said he wished the first part of his Hon. Friend's clause had been more general. It was his opinion that all rules made by the Poor-law Commis sioners should be under the supervision of the Secretary of State, and subject to the control of the House.—(Ht ar, hear.) It appeared to him also that the second part of the clause was contradictory to the first. After some further discussion, which was quite inaudible, the clause was withdrawn. Lord G. SOMERSET then moved, et tie end of the clause, to add, " Provided always, no such general rule, order, or regulation shall be of any effect, unless duly signed by two at least of the said Commissioners, and sealed by their common teal, and countersigned by one of her Majesty's principal Secretaries of State. After a short discussion the clause, as amended, was ag•eed to. On clause 5 being proposed, Lord G. SOMERSET moved, in lines 4 and 5, to omit the words "so authorised, or," " so." After a short conversation the clause was postponed. Sir F. POLLOCK thought that after the alteration in clause 4, the clause then under discussion would have an injurious (ffect. M-. GOULI3URN suggested that it would be advis able to alter this clause alter the alteration which hal been made in clause 4. Mr. FIELDEN said that at that lato hour he thought they ought not to proceed with tho discussion. He should, therefore, move that the Chairman do report progress, and ark lease to sit agsin on Monday. Lord J. RUSSELL oil not object to accede to the preposition of the Hon. Member, hut he gove notice that he timid move that on Tuesday the considerw.ion of the Poor-law Bill should take precedence of notices of moti;n. The House then resumed. THE CENSUS. Mr. F. MAULE moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend 3 and 4 Vic., c. 99, and 3 and 4 Vic., c. 100, for taking an account of the population of Great Brit.in and Ireland. The intention of the Bill was to take the census three weeks earlier than it could be taken accord ing to the present law.—Leave was then given. The Hos. GENTLEMEN then moved for leave to bring in a Bill for regulating the employment of children and young persona in factories. Leave was given accordingly, and the Bills wore sere raly brought and read a first time. Colonel SIBTHORP gave notice that on Monday he should move for returns of certain proceedings connected with the Hoo Union. The House then adjourned, at Half-past Twelve, to Monday next. THE GUIANA EXPEDITION.—Letters were received on Wednesday, announcing the arrival at Demeraa of the Guiana expedition, and containing some interesting particulars of its future route and destiny. The Cleopatra, in which the expedition sailed, reached there in 28 days with a fair passage from the Lizard. On their arrival the party, consisting of five persons, were severagy introduced to Co lonel Light, the Governor, who expressed his desire to for ward their contemplated operations to the utmost of his power, and provided them with a house in the best part of George Town, to which they had removed the whale of their instruments, having had two tents erected in the garden. Mr. Sehomburgek was endeavouring to procure the Pa rade-ground, a Tice, open, and commanding tract on which to erect a temporary observatory, forming a position from which, as the centre of the colony, all the observations he may hereafter make will be connected. The Mayor and Town Council were against this appropriation, although the Governor and Attorney-General had given their con sent, but it was thought their objections might be over come. Mr. Richard Schomburgek, who was attended by Mr. Hancock, both in the sersice of the Prussian Government as naturalists to the expedition, had made a short tour in the country, when the former was seized with the epidemic of the colony, and for some time his life was despaired of. The ex pedition was to start in six or tight weeks time fur the interior, proceeding up the coast as far as the Parima, where it would place a boundary mark to distinguish the Spanish from the British territories ; from hence it would make a detour towards the Cuyunuinry, and sailing down this river till it arrives at its junction with the Essequibo, return to George Town, thus leaving the more dispu ed or seuth-vre.t boundary until they have summed up ob servations and recruited themselves. In concur rence viith the views of the expedition, the Governor had just de,patched to Pirate (on the Portuguese boundary line) the Inspector-General of Police for the colony, together with two officers of regi ments, to show the claim which Great Britain had to so distant a spot, and to see that no more encroachment should be made, nor atrocities committed upon the native s, our subjects. It is feared that when they arrive at this spot, the expedition may meet a skirmish with the Brazi lians, for which purpose they and their attendants are well armed, and are to be placed under military law. The officers of the expedition are very sangu ine as to their ul timate success. THE FRENCH STAGE.—If there #e-- French g rid e i n tion, thing that would tend more than another to raisneisttheaenny one character of the English stage from its a, Geor es delightful Me just made their it would be a due study and appreciatfrPolnr:cernlf stage at its most paimy period—that Fol z _ 3 g , lay, 1 Ar. and Duchcsnois in trage • dy ,l and ? I. the nauld, &c ., in comedy : moirs of Fleury," written by appearance in an English (ironies express purpose of affording us this facility,/ As Fleurya7asthe favoured riitahvee friend and companion, every and variety of the choicest spirits of hilday— from a iest of the cou isses—we were right in palaces to t e j anticipating a work d of singular and varied ent er t a i nmen t, even without the im p ortant and appropriate aid that the English version of it has received at the hands of its lively and humorous editor, Mr. Theodore Hook, who supplies it with many notes and commentaties. Silver coin and bulli6n shipped at Dover from 17 le Match 23 ) arnotuttod to 91,000 ounces ; gold 500 ounces. MORNING EDITiOAT THE DAILY BREAD SOCIETY OR HOW TO REPEAL THE BREAD -TAX. We hope the aristocracy will ponder over the follow ing recommendation, which we find in a pamphlet en titled Daily Bread, or Taxation without Representa tion Resisted," and learn, if they has e not wholly lost the capacity to learn, something of the thoughts with which the brains, or rather the hearts, of the people— for these thoughts spring from their affections—are teeming : Those of us who have read the Bible for ourselvei, or who have heard the parson read it fur us, will recollect, that alien food was difficult to be obtained in the Land of Canaan, the Children of Israel, bearing there was abuts dance in another country, sent over a sum of money to we don't hear that even in th ose b ar b aro us procure was any law to prevent fetching cor n from vv was superaboudant , to places where it was defi cientrhyeesst, t e r c it there it ; or, th.t tile landowners levied a tax of five-pence out of every shilling's worth. Jews or H e a thens though they v,itrn a sh e a re m , e th b e e y preeJac it did sp n n o k t en_ca i such inhum an ity as— ist:,ans, yea, Protestant Christian English landowners practise row. Well then, the example of the Children of Israel is to G. followed by us : but, it may he said, in what manner is tie, money to be provided, and in whet way is it to be sent? Thus, a Society, to be forthwith commenced, to he called, " The Daily Bread Society," having for its motto, " Give zi:s this day our daily bread." Each person to contribute the sum of one penny, and no more, but each member of the faintly might contribute a penny, so that a man, his wife, and four children, would contribute sixpence. The Society to extend itself, in every town of importance throughout England, Wales, Scotland, and Ireland. If one million two hundred thousand signed the petition for the Charter, one million will be a very small number to be members cf the Daily Bread Society. One mil lion persons, contributing a penny each, would raise the sum of more than four thousand pounds, which, it is un derstood, they should subscribe for the purpose of fetching daily bread. It is proposed, that the upper and middle classec, such as the Members of the Anti-Corn-law League, and the Anti- Cern law Associations, who arc anxious for the Repeal of the Bread Tax, should subscribe' more largely, and a separate fund, to pay the expense of sending lecture's, or accredited agents, to form societies in each town, and give information on the subject, so that no part Cf the pence should be expended except for the purpose of purchasing foreign corn. It is also proposed, that three, rive, or more gentlemen, of high standing, a; to wealth, and character, should receive the money, when collected, it being collected for the purpose of sending for daily bread : the persons appointed in each town should be turait lied with printed or engraved receipts, to give to the parties of whom the pence are received, that it may be seen who are members, and how many. We have re e ceived the information from a quarter Ss here the accuracy of the statement may be fully relied on, that, at places in other countries, separated from us by only a few miles of water, which our vessels can cross in a few hours, or at most a few days, the price of corn is less than two-thirds of the price it is ia this country. In Germany, at the sea putt town of Hamburgh, the price of a quarter, or eight bushels, of fair average quality, of red wheat, was, on the 19.1 r day of February, thirty-eight shillings; and at the seaport of Dantzic, in Prussia, where the corn f.om Poland is brought down for tale, the price of a quar ter of fine white wheat, was, on the same day, forty shil lings per quarter, whilst the current price in the Corn Exchange of the London Markets, was, at the same period, sixty-live shillings per quarter for the Hamburgh red wheat, and seventy-five shillings per quarter for the Dant zic white wheat. The expense of bringing wheat from Hamburgh to this country does not usually exceed three shilliegs per quarter; and the expense from I.:3ntzie does not usually exceed five shillings per quarter, but the great disproportion between the prices in those places and in England is occasioned by the Bread Tax of the land owners, This is a tax which fluctuates from time to time, and varies, not only from the nature of the seasons, but from stratagems which are resorted to by those who carry on the trade. Sometimes, it is more than thirty shillings per quarter, at other times it is suddenly brought down foe a week or a fortnight, to a low point, but it never remains at the low point long enough to admit more than very slight and temporary relief. The tax has, for several years past, averaged between twenty and thirty shillings per quarter; and on the day the foregoing prices are stated, namely, the nineteenth of February, the tax levied by the landowners, on every quarter of wheat, was twenty-five shillings and eightpence. ln the article of oa t s —f rom w hi c h the bread of so largo a proportion of the inhabitants of Lanca shire and Yorkshire is made, and the porridge of the Scotch—the disproportion in price, and the landlord's tax, are still more enormous. The current price of a quarter, or e ght bushels of oats, on the days before-mentioned, was, at the various seaports on the continent of Europe, from which oats are shipped, from ten to twelve shillings per quarter; and the price on the London Corn Exchange was from twenty-two to twenty-four shillings per quarter ; the tax levied by the landowners, on the same day, fifes') shillings and threepence per quarter; the effect being, that if the working man, too poor to afford wheaten bread for his family, endeavoured to obtain oaten bread, and sent cloven shillings to purchase a quarter of oats, he could not be allowed to use them, without paying a farther fifteen shillings and threepence, for the landlord's tax !I It is proposed, then, that as soon as the gentlemen ap pointed to be at the head of the Daily Bread Society shall base cnrel:ed a sufficient number of Members, and received a sufficient number of pence, they shall purchase corn in those countries where it is cheap, whether in Germany or Poland, and send over ships from England to bring it to thin country, for the Members Lithe Daily Bread Society. Dur ing the time teat the ship or ships are gone to Germany or Poland, to bring the corn, every possible means should be taken to explain the matter to the Nleintiers of the So-. ciety, and the inhabitants generally throughout the country ; and they should be taught to repeat the motto of the Society, " Give us this day our Daily Bread." Titee men should chelk it on the walls of our steets ; the little boys should write it in their copy books; the hive girls should work it on their samplers; and the women should in.. scribe it on the flags and banners of the people ;—so that, by t!:e time of the zirrival of the corn of the people, they may thoroughly understand the busine, , s. If only one ship be sent, it is proposed that she should come to the seaport of Goole, in Yorkshire, that being the nearest point to Leeds, and the manufacturing town in the West Riding of Yorkshire ; but there is no reason why more than cue ship should not be employed, and then they might come to Liverpool, Glasgow, Newcastle, London, or other ports. Now the way the Americans obtained the suffrage, and exemption from heavy taxation, fur nishes us with an example worhy of imitation. The English landlords said to the Americans, " We impose a tax on your tea."—" No," said the Americans, "we shall net be imposed upon ; we are not represented, and we deny your right to tax us." A cargo of tea was sent to one of their !ea-ports (Boston), and an exciseman teas sent to collect the tax ; the exciseman was tarred and feathered by the Americans, and the tea emptied into the ocean, rather than they mould submit to pay a tax upon it. Here, then, we see a practical way of abolishing Corn Laws, and obtaining the suffrage. When the ship anises at the destined port —or a few days before —let meetings of the Society be held in every town and city in the kingdom, and let her Majesty be memorialised to give an order in council for the abolition of the Bread Tax ;—peehape she may hear and regard the cries of a famishing people, wanting food. The fruit of their own labour has been sent to purchase it, and who shall stand be tweea a famishing people and their food ? If her Majesty shall yield the just rights of the people—well; but if she should be ill-advised, and refuse it, a large number of the Nlembers of the Society, say ten or twenty thousand, should go down to the slip—marching orderly, each with an empty bag, calculated to hold about two pecks or half a bushel— to procure samples of the corn, which belongs to the members of the Society. It may, perhaps, not be neces sary, or judicious, to follow the example of the Americans, by tarring and feathering the Custom -house officers, stationed on board the vessel ; they will probably offer no impediment to the people obtaining samples of their own corn; but, if impediments are thrown in the way of this, and if those impediments are of a nature which it is jutlgeci beeer not to remove, then the course is to refuse to pay the tax, and to empty the corn into the sea. All this is perfectly legal, the people have as much right to send their pence to buy food, and to send ships to bring it to England, as the large merchants have to send theirs. They have as much right to send their agents to receive the cargo and tak e s am pl es, as t h e l arge merchants have to send their clerks and watermen to receive their ships and draw their samples; and sometimes merchants, rather than pay the teix, lock it up fur several years, until it be comes much injured, and not worth the expense of v ware housing ; in such cases the merchants would have fierst beenin gainers had they emptied it into the sea w . . them selves ehina throw r t e h s; eirs The into static ,Binresatedadsooefkiitiyeuwrrililngbavtehen rightgranary t o the sea at once, if they choose; and they ill avail of the right, if they are d enied the food earned by loo:n(113: a ° a must their own labour. the American plan to th e We confess we prefer concluding part of our author's scheme. If the G o _ ve rnment, the aristocracy-, and the Custom - house should to resist r b e r s i i n s g t the in and eat th e i r own bread—if they sho uld be so just claims of the h n e ai s ly o l i i l r l e a a d d sr s is o e e d a iety s , to restraint the i l rn aw l' ° c a s e a r r ia e l n lovr f 7; n he e ir i thei.ee uniquty, tha A mer i can monstrously . u n j ust as p mg time is gone fancy take the consequence o f t h e i r own in on remedy a pplied to importation of a luxury would be t oo mi ld f or them, jus tice. g r o e n h e ev hy when thedecree of the, aw -Di , er was pro nounced li ke the fiat of Omnipotence. and they 'f b l i i s E w NikiEnv N o r O k V s E e a l ; sto be exc i t i ng a most extra " THE . ENGAGEMENT.' or dinary sensation. The auth or pers i sts in rema i n i ng un known, although the production has been ascribed, with som e show of justice, to more than one eminent li terar y person of the day, A Tstr l g that "The contemporary journal justly Engagementob serves" is a work which is not merely one of th e most v i v id . I just pictures of h Englis au • stocratic so( been given to the world, but one of the rching de. lineations of human charm means of a most ingenious, original, ing story. All the characters in the a marked degree. We are acquai .n modern literature, or anywhere Ore, that is at once so brilliant, and so original as Louis de Grey; nothing more lofty in feeling than goriirwsby, and also Eleanor Belleisle ; nn tlying more extHsitcly artificial, and at the same time (for the qualities are by no means incompatible), so exquisitely true to na , ure as it is modified by society, as Mrs. Per oeval and Lady Mornington ; and certainly nothing 6 more entertaining than the way in which ail these characters, and a score of others, are put into action, and made sub. servient to the development of a fashionable love story, and au original and exciting plot—the latter of which is superior to almost any that we recollect, of recent date, in any work of this nature. We understand the marriage of Viscount Jocelyn and Lady Fanny Cowper will be solemnised at the close of the ensuing month. . ~. e5 e 7.,. • - - . .. . t. N . -id, vigorous, and ju ;iety which has ever b e most subtle and - SCEI ,cter andpassion, by m and intensely interest work are original in inted with nothing i Mr. FIE LDE N then vviihdrew his amendment, and Clause 2 was agreed to. On clause 3 being proposed, Mr. H. HIND E begged the attention of the House for a few moments, chile he submitted an amendment of con siderable importance to this clause. Mr. WARLEY rose tonr"de-. Be intended to "move ►het the clause be postponed altogether, and therefore he apprehended that his motion had priority to any amend ment of this clause. The CHAIRMAN replied in the affirmative, and Mr. WAKLEY proceeded. He believed from what the Noble Lord had said the other night it was his inten ton bona fide not to interfere with the parishes which were under the government of Local Acts. He believed the House had understood the lasguage of the N: Ole Lord to that effect, and certainly it had been so under stood out of doors, and he had been one of those who said the statement of the Noble Lord would give sati L fiction. Since that time clause 3 had been examined by various local authorities connected with parishes which were under systems of kcal government, and in several of these parishes a fear existed that the Poor-law Commissioners would be enabled to interfere with their goverarneat, if not under this clause, at. least under the Peer-law Amend ment Act itself. A great number of these parishes had not only I.al great apprehensions on the subject, but had been put to considerable expense in consequence cf legal proceedings having been instituted against them by the Commissioners. Now he was anxious to learn from the Noble Lord whether the local boards were s;illto exercise the powers they had exercised, or whether the pots cr., of the Poor-law Act were to be strained age last them. He was the more anxious for this statement on account of the contradictory opinions of the Courts of Law. He did not know what legal gentlemen called contradictory, but when two things were opposite, he ( Mr. Wakley) called them contradictory, and thus it was with the opinions of the Courts of Law. Legal proceedings had been instituted against the parish of S. Pancras with respect to the government cf that parish, which ended in the go vernment of the parish under the Local Act heir g confirmed ; but proceedings were institmed against other parishes, and it appeared that the law was laid down in this manner—that although the Commissioners could not interfere where the guardians were elected in a single pariah under a local Act, yet if the parish became united with other parishes, and a union was formed, then the Com missioners could interpose their authority. There were proceedings pending at this moment on the subject ; arid te, therefore, hoped the Noble Lord would not object to postpone this clause for the purpose of introducing another of a timilar description ; and also a declaratory clause, in timating to all these parishes that tney were to be secured • in their system of local government, and that the Poor law Commissioners had not power to interfere with the local Act.. If the Noble Lord had heard from the Com missioners, or others, that the power they derived under the Poor-law Amendment Act was suffisieet to introduce the Commissioners into parishes under local government, of what use was this clause ? The lion. Gentlernau then read the clause, and said that its words partook of the sub tlety which distinguished every thing that came from So merset-house. He believed the Noble Lord was deceived by the words of this clause. The Hon. Member then moved that clause 3 be postponed. Si, FREDERICK POLLOCK rose to make some observations relative to a case which came under his own observation. It related to the parish of St. Pancras, re. specting which, the Court cf Qrseorr's Bench decided that in the district in which there was a local act, it was not proper for the Poo:-law Commissioners to introduce a board of guardians under an amendment of the Act as distinguished from the guardians under the Local act. Thus, it was that the parish of St. Pancras escaped from the Commissioners. 11 the Noble Lord bona fide intended that the Poor-law Commissioners should not have the power of repealing Acts of Parliament, he must do so by different language from thst used in clause 3. He, there fore, joined with the Hon. Member for Finsbury, in de siring the postponement of the clause. Sir A. DALRYMPLE said the effect of the clause would be to place the large parishes at present under Local acts in the power of the Commissioners, and at any time they might bring them within the provisions of the present Bill. After a few words from Sir S. CANNING, Lord JOHN RUSSELL understood that parties had complained that under the present Bill local Acts were more interfered with than under the Poor-law Amendment Act. Therefore, to put an end to the alarm that existed on that point in the public mind, he had proposed to intro duce a clause to say, that so far as that Act was concerned, no further interference than was at present authorised by law should take place. That was what was intended by the clause. There did not app ear t o hi m t o b e th e s lightest ambiguity in the clause. He certainly could not agree with the proposition of the Hon. and Learned Mem ber fur Huntingdon to introduce a declaratory clause on the subject, because if places under local Acts were to be alto gether exempted from the operation of the law it would be attended with great inconvenience. Sir ROBEIZT PEEL said it could not be denied that the power proposed to be granted to the Commissioners ovlr parishes governed by local- Acts was of a very un satisfactory nature; because the Commissioners might evade the law by including two or three parishes and form ing a union, and so set aside the exemption of a paiLh governed by a local Act. The parties interested, there fore, could not feel any security. Although the Commis sioners could not attack a parish so situated individually, they might include it with two or three othres, and thereby deprive it of its exemption. lie should strongly ad vise the Noble Lord, and he did not offer the sug_ geetion for the purpose of d. lay, to postpone the clause, under the convietiln that i.e could not on &,ti-facte; -- Oy pr.-- u the n1 ,1 ;:: ,, t7. He would strongly recommend the Noble Lord to post pone this clause, in order that the House, might be fur- ~~ .