The Sun. — London, England, 1841-02-06 00:00:00

EVENING EDITION-. SPIRIT of the PUBLIC JOURNAt, FROM THE EVENING PAPERS OF YESTERDAY.) (From the Standard.) The Irish Registration Bill of Lord Morpeth is now, as far as its principle i 3 concerned, before the public, and it will be foiled to have accomplished the difficult task of restor ing interest to a discussion, the interest of which had been previously exhausted. The interest, however, which the Noble Secretary has given to the question, is altogether at his own and his party's expense—it is the same kind of interest that one takes in a rat-hunt or is the pursuit of a pickpocket by the market crowd. Lord Morpeth never intended that his Bill should pass into a law—nav more, never hoped that any one could suspect him of in tending that it should pass into a law. It is a Bill to pre vent a reform of the Irish registration, which Lord Morpeth at length acknowledges to be abominably corrupted by fraud and perjury. And for this end it is ad. mirably adapted; it is a Bill for household suffrage, for such must boa Bill fora five-pound rated franchise. What would be thought of such a Bill of this kind for the counties of England, where so much complaint is made by Liberals of the enfranchisement by the Duke of Buckingham and Chandos' clause in the Reform Bill of 501. tenants ; and yet bow much higher is the relative position of 5/., householders in England than in Ireland? All rents in Ireland are extravagantly high, but house rent is higher in proportion than land -rent, as it always Kill be where the interest of money is high, and where payments are precarious. This is a fallacy which runs through all calculations of Irish rents ; whether house rent or land rent, the rents are estimated at what is commonly agreed to be paid for a giver, class of house, or a given amount of land, and not what on the average of years is actually received, or expected to be received. This may serve well enough for comparing things Irish among themselves; but it leads to the grossrst errors when we come to compare the station cf the inhabitants according to the rents they pay. Many a man occupies a house in Ireland that, according to the usus loci, must be rated at ten or fifteen pounds, who in Eng land woulsl be the inmate of a workhouse. Nine-tenths of Lord Morpeth's 5/. electors would be actual paupers. But it is nearly as absurd to deal seriously with such a proposition as it was to make it. (From the C'onrier.) The unanimity of the Ministry and their adherents is really wonderful this Session about the fraud and per jury of the Irish registration system, as contrasted with last, when the fact was flatly denied by Mr. O'Connsll and not dared to be admitted by the cowering officials around him thee. Lord Morpeth last evening WAS allowed to be even eloquent in illustration of the pre mises so long in " It had (lie observed) been admitted on all hands that there were many imperfections and abuses attached to the ;:resent system of registration in Ireland. This evil both parties have admitted, and have agreed in opinion that some remedy should be applied. ( Hear, hoar.) As to the precise extent of those abuses—as to the nature of them, or the exact degree of fraud practised —as to its comparative extent with the fraud practised in this country or Scotland—it was not, he thought, a sub ject necessary to excite controversy, although he knew these questions had, on former occasions, created a gloat difference of opinion. It had been admitted by all parties that this system had furnished, generally, great means and facilities for frand in Ireland ; this had scarcely been denied fay any who had addresser' himself to a consideration of the subject. The point which. had been more especielly adverted to was the system of certificates, which, of itself, was the cause ef frequent instances of fraudulent personation of dead or absent voters, and the retention on the registry of voters who had been placed there after being duly qualified, but who were then, left without any opportunity for subsequent correction or revision, that is, wader the present Irish Reform law, for a period of eight years." The scandalous system here described by a Member of the Government, under whose observation its practical working must more peculiarly have fallen, was suffered to exist, and its abominations winked at, without one attempt to enact and apply a legislative remedy, until Lord Stanley took the monster grievance in hand, and grappled with it vigorously for the fall. The instant it was found that registration iniquities were doomed, and that prat would eo longer be tolerated from the perpe tration, Lord Morpeth is seized with a pious fury for re form, but a reform after the true Whig fashion, for is hilit affecting zealously to co-operate in the eradication of °Le abuse, ho lends his aid only on condition of inflicting an other, politically ieore perilous, although perhaps morally less gross in the abstract. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE. OF LORDS, FED. 5. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Wor)i sack at Five o'Clock. Lord REDESDALE sa'd ho was requested by a Node Friend (Lord Ripon), who hal g.ven notice for Morday next of a motion on the subject of cur rela tions with Persia, that Its was compered to rut it off on ucentint of the death of a relative. DUTIES ON EAST INDIA PRODUCE Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition which be said came from a respectable though nct numerci:s body of men consisting of eight planters, landowners, and others regyTed rho cultivation of la:td in India. They prayed f. - tr the equalization of duties rn E-st and West Indian produe.t. It was kno..-ra to their I,n7de,Yr3 tllat th,t duty upon sugar, t;:e produce o::r colonic's in diff_a-cut parts of the w,,r1,1, had been nominally egnaliz d, hut it had not been so ia flct, nor indeed nominally in all places. For instance, pt the C tpe of Good Hope, sugar from the Etst Ind.es was charged th.l same amount of duty a 3 that from Itreign countries, which was almost a prehi bition. But ap trt from this, the it Lordships should know tliat the effect of the uneval duiies en colonial runt w to operate indir . c:ly as a heavy tax upon tke :a of stiff it in the East 13 , 1e5. Ia West lodics the per s upon the mlnufaettire of rum enabled the sugar growars to sell sugar et a muen cheaper r,te than they cruid do if they were not re lieved in that woe front part of talc expense of its manufacture. Lot the Ea.t beteg shut out Item mark.et for their ruts, were unalde to pr.)- duce sugar with the same advantages. There rL re nonn.icted with then .subjnct still higher interests than mere coirmercial and a;iti2ultural con,:iderations, viz , the effect which the present regu!ations of duties or coy aitcrntion of them might have upon the sui.j ct of sla.,-;,ry. NI a y whe, like himself, would have no difficulty in detertnining that on general coltsideratiot: the duties should be equalised, had cosine tlotit that the effect might not lice to give eneourageancut fo the exportation of sug tr produced by slice labour.— ( Hear, hear.) The petitiocers had not shut their to this :low of the case. They Seer.', persons practicell aequointed with till the bearings of :he ("tacit= ; amontr , t them they 1.• ult iva`ed 150,000 acres of lend, none a there cultivated less than 19,000 acres, and tleir opi 2:ion was that the eq3 tizatien would not be attended with increaser: facilities for the employment of slave labour. 11,LINES'S OF THE DUKE OF WELLING. TON. Towards the conc!usion of the Noble and Learned Lord's address on the Frescroation of the petition, the Duke of 'Wellington rose hurriedly from his seat, as if seized by sudden iil etQ. Tne Noble Duke faltered in his step as he endeavoured to proceed to the Rejoining room. Toe E;rl of Aberdeen, the Esrl Elle',borough, and the 1 5 oers around, immediately as sisted him out. We understand that the Ncble Duke was soon afterxards enabled to proceed in his carriag to his house. The Miniqu . :s of LANSDOWNE concurred in the general vie Ns expresed by his Noble and Learned Friend (14-4,1 Brougham). Lord BROUGHAM tlien presyi‘ntrd a petition (turn the F ins b ury ‘Vorkin,g Mrin's Association, sigsed by tlic Chairman, Mr. Gibbs, praying that certain measures proposed in what was called the People's Cha-ter, rend consisting of universal suffrage, vote by ballet, no property . qualification, the payment of 'Mem - - hers, and the dir;s:on o f th e country i nto electoral districts, might he carried into effect. The Noble and Learned Lord also presented a petition from the same Association, praying for the release of Frost, Williams, and Jones, and the liberation of other political offenders. They complained o f the punishinnt inflicted on those individuals who amount to between -100 and 500 in England, Scotland, sad Wale=, stating that it was only calculated to bring the law into contempt. Mr. Holmes, a Cleik of the Court of Chancery in Ireland, brought up certain returns from that Court. , TRIAL OF THE EARL OF CARDIGAN. Lord DUNCANNON laid on the table a resolu tion agrecti to by the Committee appointed to regulate proceedings with respect to the trial of the L :r1 of Cardigan, to the effect that no person should be per mitted en the sail trial to sit or stand near the Throne, except such Peers of Irebind and Scotland as did not sit in the House, minor Peers, and the el lest sons of Peers, and that such per sons should not be admitted unless provided with a ticket by the Lord Chamberlain, to be obtained on per sonal application at his Lordship's office, between the hours of ten anti five o'clock. Their Lordships then adjourned till Monday. 110 USE OF COMMONS, FER: 5: The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hour. Sir FRANCIS BURDETT presented a petition from Newbury, Bc..rkihire, against the Poor-law, b e i n g iNjurious to the poor, and opposeJ to the interetF cf humanity. COPY-RIGHT BILL. Mr. Sergeant TALFOURD presented a petition from Mr. Hood, editor of the " Comic Annual," in favour of the Copy-right Bill ; also a petition from Mr. William Cobbott, a prisoner in the Fleet, with a simi lar prayer. The Hon. and Learned Member also pre sented a petition from a person named Keithley, com plaining of the treatment of Mr. Feargus O'Connor, in York gaol. Sir H. PARNELL presented a petition from the Chamber of Commerce in Dundei', praying for the re moval of all import duties on foreign linen. NEW WRIT. On the motion of Mr. E. J. STANLEY, a new writ was ordered for the King's County, in the room of Mr. Nicholas Fitasimon, who had accepted the Chiltern Hundreds. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE presented a petition from the working men gf Fin s b ury, i n favour of the People 's Ch Wer, and complaining of grievances which they al .eged were caused by a want of adequate representation Ala) a petition from the same body in favour of Fros 7 Jones, and Williams, and praying a pardon for all Flit is offenders. EDUCATION IN IRELAND. Mr. Serge Ant JACKSON presented a petition from a parish in the County of Down, complaining of the inefficiency of the present system of national education in Ireland. CHURCH EXTENSION. Sir R. H. INGLIS presented two petitions from I places in Yorkshire in favour of Church Extcclion. Mr. LITTON presented a petition from inhabitants of Mountmelrck, in Queen's County, Ireland, against any further grant for the College of Maynooth also a petition from the same place, praying that Papists might be excluded from sitting in Parliament. Sergeant JACKSON gave notice, that oti'l4 day next ho should move for certain returns 9?4,10 the clerks of the peace for the counties of Cork, t . otg--: ford, Queen's County, and Tipperary, and of the cafes of Cork and Dublin, relative to notices of intentiotof , registering votes for the said counties at the several sessions in 1840. SUPPLY. On the motion of the CHANCELLOR .' , OT EXCHEQUER the House resolved itself intoti Perti;; mittec of Supply, Lord SEYNtoust in the Chair-. The usual vote for the Transfer of Aids was 1. 4 2:TR : C d . to, and the Report ordered to be brought up on , 'MO day nest. The House then resumed. Lord STANLEY gave notice, that it WAS his inten tion to rut. to her Majesty's Ministers a question on Monday next, which he should hare put that evening had he seen the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies, or the Noble Lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, in his place, relative to the alleged apprehensian of Mr. Macleod, a British subject, by the authorities of the State of New York, and the communications which had passed en the subject between the British Goverz ment and the Government of the United States. SOUTH AUSTRALIA. On the motion of Lord JOHN RUSSELL the following Members were nominated as a Select Com mittee to consider the affairs of Siuth Australia : Lord Viscount Howick, Lord Stanley, Sir George Grey, Mr. W. E. Gladstone, Mr. G. W. Wood, Lord Viscount Mahon, Mr. Parker, Lord Eliot, Mr. \Vaud, Captain A'Court, Mr. Vernon Smith, Mr. Raikes Currie, Mr. Sotheron, Lord Fitzalaa, Mr. George Hope, five to constitute a quorum. COPYRIGHT BILL. The Order of the ay for the second reading of the Crnyright Bill having been moved by Mr. Sergeant T A L FOURD, Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that perhaps the Hon. and Learned Gentleman would not objcct to his proposing a vote of thanks to S;r Robert Stopford. Mr. Sergeant TALFOURD assented to the pro position of the Noble Lord. WAR IN SYRIA. Lord JOHN RUSSELL then rose and addressed the House as follows :—Sir, in rising to ask the House to agree to a vote of thanks to Sir Robert Stopford, Sir Charles Napier, Sir Charles Smith, and the officers and men who had been engaged in the operations which have been recently carried on on the coast of Syria, I am quite sure that the House will give its cordial concurrence to this motion as a tribute which is justly due to the gallantry of the gallant officers and men who have been engaged in those operations.— (Cheers) The success of those operations de pended in a great degree upon the promptitude with which they were carried into effect, and how ever various the opinions may be as to the general policy which had rendered those operations necessary —whether that policy was right, or whether it was wrong—whether or not. it was expedient to un dertake such operations—whether the policy of the Government be approved of or not—l am quite sure that all must agree in opinion that no thing could exceed the skill and judgment displayed by those who had to carry into effect the orders of her Majesty,issued in consequence of that policy.—(Cheers.) Sr Robert S.opford had at his commend, it is true, a large fleet in the Mcditteranean, but at the same time he had to tyke into his consideration the state of Europe at that time, which was so alarming that at one period there' were sm.:pus aperesen.ions of the peace of Europe being disturbed. Sir Robert Stopford must also have bet n naturally anxious that in the operations which he was about to undertake the reputation of the navy should be sustained—(Cheers)—and also to consider what might bo the ultimate events arising out of the operations he was about to undertake. It wes obvious to him, and I think it must be obvious to the House, that it would not be sufficient that he should undertake those opermiens, considering that he had no enemy to deal with but the Paella of E t.ypt, and a chance or contingeecy that eorne cf the great European Powersmight send their as,istance to the Pacha of E , ,zypt ; and he was oli!iged, therefore, to adopt any resoutecs he coud comtnand in order to off .ct the (Apia he had in vier. 1 say this because I consider that the officer in command, whatever may be the I question with respect to the gallantry and skill displayed in naval and military operations the officer in command has more under his direction than eh her military or naval operations. He has, besides the duty of the charge, not only to consider those intim ! :Nate operations, but it is his bounden duty to consider the position of the Gevsrnment and the country, and to take into account malty c•ms;derations partly military, partly naval, and partly political.—( Hear, hear, hear.) I have said thus much as appl*g to Sir Robert Stopford, and the part which I em now to state applies also to Sic Robert S:opford, but equally to every person engaged. Yoe Treaty in cot:- Szquonce of which these operations were taken, was signed on the 15th of July. Orders were given by wide!) part of these operations were taken before tie Conventi)n was signed, since then or ders had been given by Sir Charles Napier, and about the 10 , h of September, the fleet on the coast of Syria, bei:tg aware that Mchcmet A!i held rejected al the propositions, commence d the operations against the for tresses of Mehemet Ali which have finalle led to his submission. Tice first operetion against. Mehemet. Ali was conducted net against life or property, but with a slew of s&.aluir a the reilatary force acting by the directions of Mehemet A!i, and therefore consich-red as an hosti'c oree. The consequence of those operations was the entire destruction of the military force of Mehemet Ali. An other operation was immediately undertaken under t h e direction of Sir Robert Stopford, but under the cont• mand of Si;' Charles Napier. Tito troops which were landed amounted to about 1,500. The position of troops was not the position which, in ordi nary mi•itary operations, would be considered either safe or the basis of any future successful operations, but it was the position which Commodore Napier had con c7ivedi and rightly conceived, would best effect the ob ject to be accomplished. conceive that the judg ment displayed by Sir Charles Napier, as well as the boldness of conception, are very remarkable features in considering the se operations. The object was not to land a great army in Ss rip, which was to be opposed to the army of Mehemet Ali. The Oiled was with a small force— and it was only a small torte—of Turks, aided by a few hundred Marines, to encourage the innabitants, who were disposed to do so, to revolt against Mehemet Ali. I concur with this view ; nothing could be better judged, and, as it turned out, nothing could he more successful than the operations which were then un dertaken. It must be recollected that for some years the forces under Mehemet Ali were organised with great judgment and skill ; that the military farce was supposed to be very considerable ; that some rec koned it at 100,030 men and some at 120,000 ; and that those who professed to have the most accurate in formation did not fix it at less than 65,000, not Ine eluding the irregular forces who 'assisted the army of Ibrahim Pacha, and were under his command. It was against such an army that this small force was opposed. Sir, it was soon shown that Commo dore Napier and those who acted with him had not miscalculated the resistance which would be made by Ibrahim Paella. Sir Robert Stopford, in order to gain possession of Beyrout, directed certain operations against the Egyptian force in that town, and directed Commodore Napier and General Joehmus to aid him in those operations. That movement. was un dertaken, but before it could be entirely effected it was found that a very considerable part of the Egyptian army was on the heights before this small force of Turks, Ma rines, and Artillery, and that Ibrahim Pacha was present. It was necessary to take an immediate resolution-- that immediate resolution was taken by the gallantry of British sailors and British soldiers. That immediate resolution was to attack Beyrout. The attack was made, and it was entirely successful. Ibrahim Pacha eft the field, and the forces under Ibrahim Paella, near Beyrout, immediately retreated. The consequence was that several thousands of the Egyptians surrendered to the forces under the command of Commodore Napier and General Jochmus, while ethers surrendered in other parts. Soon after this an attack w a s made u p on Sidon, where likewise the success was very signal. The Arch duke commandieg an .Austrian frigate was one of those who distinguished themselves on that occasion, and the Egyptian forces not being permitted, in conse quence of the direction of the fire of the ships, to re treat to the mountains, were obliged to surrender. The operations, however, of most importance took place at Acre—a place rendered memorable by the prowess and skill of Sir Sydney Smith—( Hear, hear) —in the assistance he gave in its defence. It has fallen to us in the course of the last year to ac• coinplish its surrender, and the same service which displayed so much skill and bravery in its defence has been the means of capturing it.— (Hear, hear.) Instructions left this country about the 7th of October, to attempt the reduction of the .fort Of Acre. They were orders, as may be supposed, which left it to the discretion of Sir Robert Stopford, if he should think the enterprise practicable. He had, however, considered whether he should un dertake this enterprise for some days before, and at the time the orders arrived he was fully prepared immediately to undertake that-operation. He received the orders on the 2,9 th of October, and no time s was lost in at once carrying them into effect. Several sail of the line were employed in the operations against Acre. The position in which those shies were placed by Sir Robert Stepford, displayed the know ledge and skill cf a man who, in various parts of the globe, has always shown his complete knowledge of the profession to which he belongs, as well as the most distinguished gallantry and skill. (Cheers.) That complete knowledge and thorou g h s kill i n hi s profession enabled him to choose the best position in which his ships could be placed. The fire which was opened_ from those ships was most effectual. It was directed against two sides of the fortress of Acre. It drove from their guns the Egyptian troops, who were defending the place, and after .some hours an explosion of a powder magazine took i ,i - plgneonorneating very great destruction, which induced t afte'Reyjitian Commander and those under hi m t o g i ve opralf;ehoughts of any further defence ; so that on the ::eve i. nieg of the 3d, or on the morning o f th e 4th, th e ePlace wits surtendered to the arms of her Majesty. I have made mention of the co-operation in these ope rationg-'of the Austrian ships, and of Admiral Walker .on-it - needing the line-of-battle ship belonging to the Sul tan.• Sir, these, then, are the operations which *ere conducted under the direction of Sir Robert .St:opfact i as Admiral, with the naval forces of 'her AlljTitsty, and with Sir Charles Smith as engitleir under his command, whose assistance lias 'of the utmost value. Likewise the small but effective force of the Sultan lent beneficial aid. These forces, then, have been quite successful ; and what is the consequence of these operations that were so successful from the 9th of September to the 4th of November last? The complete success of tho enter prise with which these officers and men were entrusted. —(Hear, hear.) They have ended in producing the utmost that could be expected from them, without any alloy whatever—the complete submission to the Treaty. I therefore say again, that whatever may have been the policy in undertaking- this enter prise, it is impossible that any naval force could do more than what has been performed by these men, or that success could be carried further. They acted, Sir, ably, zealously, and skilfully.—(Hear, hear.) I may now remark, that it appears that the skill to which modern milieus have attained in the various sciences of seamanship, navigation, gunnery, engineering— that all these arts are in themselves not sufficient unleis they are directed by the mind and energies of an able and skilful commander. Various books have been written to show how success may be at tained in the enforcing of treaties ; but all those means which civilized Europe have carried to per fection—all these, and attempts even with a superiority of forces, and with time for preparation even with every financial means at the disposal of a commander ofsuperior mind, and cncrgy,and skill,have hitherto failed. Sir, I am convinced that if the operations which took place at Acre had been reversed, and that an Egyptian fleet had attacked a British fortress, the result would have been quite the opposite. The superior energy and skill of the Commander, and the bravery of his troops, would have ended in the complete discomfiture of any force Egyptian opposed to them. But these great issues . of peace and war are not decided by these merely mate rial considerations—they are to be decided by the mo ral force, the mental energy, and the superior talent of the men who belong to a nation distinguished as this is, and likewise some other nations of Europe, by superior arts, superior civilisation and enterprise. Sir, I think this is a consideration not to be lost sight of, because if we could believe that any barbarian by merely cultivating the arts of war, and by turning his attention to having a larger artillery, and• larger number of ships could compete with any civilized nation, the result would be roost disastrous. lam persuaded such is not actually tit- ease—that the character and institu miens of a nation must always have their weight, and that those to whom you are to return thanks to-night, distinguished as they arc by their great personal courage, and by the feats they have achieved, have shown themselves so worthy, be cause they belong to a nation in whom these qualities are elweys found when we have steed of them—a nation which, by its superior institutions, its free dom, and its pre-eminence in the arts, has been always ready to produce men to defend the honour and promote the interest of the nation, whenever the occasion far their services required it. I shall not add any more, but move the thanks of this House to Sir Robert Stopford, and the officers and men engaged in the operations on the coast of Syria. Lord STANLEY—Sir, I am anxious to have the honour, in a very few words, of seconding the motion of the Noble Lord.—( Hear, hear.) This is a subject on which there can be difference arising from political questions. We are not celled upon, as the Noble Lard has well observed, to discuss the political bearings of the Syrian eitiestion, or to enter upon any question of the policy which has guided her Majesty's Govern ment on this snejset. It is a question extremely em barrassieg and dangerous to the peace of Europe, if it were fully discussed at the present stage of the proceed ings. We are called upon to express on the pert of this House the exultation we feel at the success of her M ijesty's army, and the gratitude we and the court try feel to the skid and intrepidity of the brave men by whose combined exertions, arid by whose mental and physical powers these great objects have been attained. The Nch'e Lord and the Government alone were fully in 'possession of the amount and nature of the instruee tions issue;! for the steilance of Admiral Stopferd and the officers ceder his command. They alone knew how prompt:) , and energetically they had fullilliad the i !- ! structians they had given ; but in the si - uatien in I which Admiral Stopford especially was placed—wh tt ! ever instructions were given to hint, and whatever orders he received from home, such was the critic it nature of 'the circumstances in which he was pieced— so many circumstances must occur considerably modi fying or even varying the views of the Government at home as compared with those which the officers upon the spot were compelled to take—that he was placed in a position requiring not only activity and in creasing care in obeying the orders given, but also prompt decision and the highest degree of political prudence in acting for himself in the absence of instructions, or even under the serious 'responsdelity of modif : .iag or neglectin the instructions which were given to him.— (Hear, heat - .) I thsrefore think, Sir, without having information more than that before the Houle—ediliout knowing the details known to the Government at home—that there is no Gentleman on either side— I believe that there is no man in the country —who would refuse, upon the general information e !deli is aceesiible to all, that praise of prudence, corn ; bined with vigour, activity, and valour which has been assigned by the Noble Lord opposite as the distin guished theme of the applause well-earned, and I am sure cheerfully paid to Admiral Stopford ; and on this subject there can be no difference of opinion, still less can there be any respecting . a tribute of gratitude to those bravernen—(Loud cheers)--who have acted under him, and have followed up and . seconded his endeavours, who have displayed that gallantry and almost reckless courage which had been always characteristic of our mi litary and naval forces, and which alone, when directed by the highest prudence, can lead to successful results in operations such as these. A series of operations, termiaatieg in one of the most brilliant achievements of modern limes, and which will render the name et Sir C. Napier illustrious, as having thus signalised British valour in his unprecedented and successful attack on the fortress of Acre.—(Cheers.) 1 ought to apologise to the House for addressing them at all on this sub ject—(Cheers)—but I was anxious to state, in the po sition I occupy, and in my own name, to give on this side of the House a proof that on a question of this kind, whatever may be our political differences—what ever may be our internal animosities—whatever ques tions occasioning discord may arise on other subjects, there can be in the mind of the British senate—thereby faithfully representing the minds of the British people, whateier our political opinions may be—on a subject of this kind, but one feeling, and one feeling alone—that of rejoicing and exultation at every new accession_of glory to the British arms, and that universal feeling of respect, admiration, and gratitude which is embodied in this vote to those brave and gallant men who have so much contributed to the glory of their country. Lord FRANCIS EGERTON cordially concurred in all that had fallen from the Noble Lord in praise of the great skill and gallantry displayed by the brave men who had been. engaged in the operations on the coast of Syria ; but he trusted the Noble Lord and the House would not think him capable of taking captious objeci Lions if he should indulge in what might perhaps be con sidered as criticisim on one of the expressions which had fallen from the Noble L',rd relative to the reduction of Acre. The Noble Lord, he thought, had scarcely done full justice to the merits of the gallant men engaged in that important important operation. He had said that the reduction of that fortress was the consequence of the accidental explosion which bad taken place in the fortress. Now he did not consider that any improper construction could be put on the meaning of what had fallen from the Noble Lord by persons in that House, e v: x f t t t o h : o r la e Z ott r‘ thought weoin a hr tni e ' h do nga s udt en nh l e t: l e d i s 1 aa u t i nrn e edod g t k o i expressions cae v oA e ,nwatyh r i both hda t oer o bft b ie p et s e e hs e u r r e el actionvi nacait until caused observations. id(e i eih g t e ll ap h ts e Cere and it was not until the vigorous exertions msrbt. misunderstood, tnes t sdustut erhteannhteatdebe i et; elsewhere the fortress our ships had been for some time continued, that the brave men who defe scu n tesmbhe r i (for brave men they most certainly were) were finally driven from their defences.—(Great cheering.) He could not refuse himself the gratification of express ing his entire concurrence in all that had been said by the Noble Lord in praise of the gallantry and skill dis played by those brave men.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") He would not subject himself to the charge of exaggiration by comparing the deeds of those bravo men to those of the naval heroes of former times, of Blake, of Howe, and of Nelson ; but he be lieved that they were fitting companions for those brave men, and that the British Navy would always distinguish_ itself whenever called upon, as it had done here tofore, equally in the impetuous rush to the attack, TEE SUN. LONDON, SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 6, 1841. and in the skill and judgment by which that impetuous valour was directed.—(Cheers.) But he might be permitted to observe that during the course of these operations in the East exploits had been performed which could not have taken place in the times of Nelson. The gallant exploit of the landing effected at Djuni Point by Sir Charles Napier, and en which he con sidered the success of the subsequent operations had mainly depended, had been effected by the power of steam, without which it would not have been attempted. The whole success of th^ subsequent operations de pended, he believed, upon the success , of Sir Charles Napier in effecting that landing.—(Cheers.) There had also been another exploit to which he would al lude, which could not have been performed in the time of Nelson. He had been informed that a line-of-battle ship had been ordered to batter down a round tower at Acre, with round-shot alone, and that the operations for carrying that order into effect had been executed in such a manner, that the whole broadside was delivered with a most fearful accuracy.—(Cheers.) He almost regretted that the forms usually observed on these occasions prevented the names of other officers being particularized. He could not but regret that the names of Sir Thomas Hastings— (Cheers) —of a gentleman who in politics belonged to the other side of the House, and who he considered as one of the best officers in the service, Sis- John Pechell—(Cheers)---and Sir Howard Douglas —( Loud cheering),—ha.l not been mentioned. With regard to what the Noble Lord had said as to his belief that if the circumstances had changed, and if this country's operations had been operations of defence rather than attack, the result would have been the same ; now he (Lord F. Eger ton) thougLt there were circumstances that made that extremely probable, for one of the officers engaged was distinguished above all the rest as one of the finest officers that England had latterly produced. In conclusion he begged most cordially to support the motion of the No ble Lord. The SPEAKER having put the question from the Chair, Mr. HUME rose. He hoped the time would never come when a difference of political opinion in that House would induce any Members to withhold their just mecd of praise and approhaticn to the display of great military and naval skill. He was as anxious as any man to afford to the navy and military forces of the country their just raced of praise, but he regretted that those forces had been employed in a service so injurious to the country ; he therefore, though he joined in the vote, felt bound to condemn the policy that had been pursued by her Majesty's Ministers ; and he wished,. before the debate closed, to know when the papers on this subject would be laid on the table of the House, in order that the House might see how far her Majesty's Mi nisters were to blame. Sir lIENRY HARDINGE had no protest to enter into against her Mejesty's Ministers, or the policy they had pursued. He thou g ht it would be imprudent to do so in the absence of the papers. In hie opinion, the Noble Lord, and those who had followed him, had acted wisely, ar.d as they ought to have done, when a vote of thanks was offered to the army or the navy, by abstaining from any political allusions. He agcaed with the accurate account given by the Noble Lord of the operations in Syria, and it was his firm belief that no men batter deserved the, thanks of the House than those who were concerned in the ope rations in Syria. Whatever might be the difficulties of any orders which our navy might receive, such were the resources, such the genius, and such the originality of that branch of our service, that, whether it:was afloat or whether it was on shore, they always brought their ef forts to a successful result. On the present occasion he considered that although the navy had not had the same hard fighting that it had had on former occasions, yet the skill and the science which they displayed were at tributes of their superiority of the greatest importance ; and he (Sir 'leery Hardinge) hailed their success with the greatest satisfaction. The Noble Lord, in men tioning Admiral Stopford's successes, had stated that before he received instructions from home he was fully prepared to carry into effect his own resolution to attack Acre. Now not only was Admiral Stopford fully pre pared, but he had also made up his mind to attack Acre before he received instructions to that effect.— (Hear, hear.) He thought it was due to the Gallant Admiral that that point should be clearly understocid— that he had made preparations to attack Acre before the Vesuvius arrived, bearing the instructions of Lord Palmerston. The Noble Lord, in the course of his speech had alluded to a very memorable instance in which our navy had distinguished itself on that very spot—the defence of Acre under Sir Sydney Smith. He (Sir H. Hardinge) would not draw a parallel be tween the exploits of S'r Sydney Smith and those of Admiral Stoptord. It was impossible to . institute a comperison, for the cases were dissimilar in all their features. On the one occasion Admiral Stopford dc strcyed the defences of Acre ; on the other occasion to which the Noble Lord had referred, and which oc curred about forty years ago, Sir Sydney Smith landed his marines and the crews of his ships; entered into the breach, and in a aeries of about six days' opera tions, having sustained nine, assaults against the French army—one of the greatest armies of that period—he effected the safety of the town by repulsing , all the efforts made against his force. The cases were per fectly dissimilar, and therefore he would not make any invidious comparison. He would take this opportunity of making a suggestion to the Howe, which he thought of considerable importance. Sir Sydney Smith had received the thanks of both Hous.-s of Parliament for his explo:ts at Acre.. Lord Spencer, he believed, de clared, in his place in Parliament, that he had performed en exploit uarivalled is history. Parliatnent was of the same opinion ; for, departing from its ordinary usages, it had passed a vote of thanks to him for his services, though he was only a captain in the navy, The gal lant officer had been dead two or three 3 ears, and he would take this opportunity of suggesting to the House the propriety of erecting a monument to him in St. Paul's. It appeared to him that his exploit at Acre was of such a memorable character, that the House were bound in that manner to mark their sense of his services. Sir DE LACY EVANS made a few remarks, the greater part of nhich were inaudible in the gallery; hut we understood him to express his warm approval of the vote of thanks, and his regret that any remark should have been mode on this occasion condemnatory of the policy of the Government. Sir It. INGLIS said he had felt the greatest delight at the success with which it had phased Almighty God to bless ber Msjesty's fored . ; he hoped this Christian people while looking to the instruments would not forget that it was the hand of God tfirst directed their efforts. He concurred with the Noble Lord in the terms in which he had. proposed this vote of thanks, the highest honour which this House could pay to any of their follow-sub jects. But he trusted that the Noble Lord would not feel that he had discharged his duty to the subjects of that motion if, high as was the honour proposed, he limited bis reward to that vote of thanks. It was in the power of her Majesty's Government to confer a pe cuniary reward upon these men, but he trusted that, in stead of that, there would be conferred upon the gallant Commander one of a more enduring character, and one which had been observed on similar occasicns. He trusted he had not unnecessarily obtruded these.ob servations upon the House. _ _ passdu ct orodf withoutit h N o GoEffSe gallantr T in ß g I men es ncouldwhose toe n s c o o tr exploitsallow approval the o e were t ecn to under their consideration. He regretted to find that there was an Hon. Member of the House who diEred as to the expediency of such a vote, because it was a question on which there could be no party or political feelings whatever. He hoped her Majesty's Govern ment would attend to the hint thrown out by the Right Hon. Baronet near him, of conferring some distinction on the gallant Commander of the Forces in the Medit teranean. There was one officer who in those opera tions had met with his death, not by the guns of the enemy, but by the climate, and whose services had been such as to merit the insertion of his name in this vote of thanks. He was an officer of marines, and perhaps it might be some consolation to his family to find such honourable mention made of the corps to which he be longed.—(Hear.) The Noble Lord concluded with expressing his cordial concurrence in the motion. Lord J. RUSSELL wished to say, in reference to what had fallen from the Noble Lord the Member for North Lancashire (Lord F. Egerton), that the allu sion to the explosion in Acre had only been made in consequence of its having been so prominently men tioned in the despatches of Sir„R Stopford.—( Hear.) The following Resolutions were then read by the SHEAKER, amidst vehement cheers from both sides : That the thanks of this House be given to Admiral Sir Robert Stopford, for his gallant conduct in the ope rations upon the coast of Syria.—(Cheers.) That similar thanks be given to Sir Charles Napier, Knight Commander of the Bath.—(Cheers.) That this House acknowledges, and highly approves, the services of the Royal Marines.—(Cheers.) That the thanks of this House be given to Major- General Sir Charles Frederick Smith, and the officers of the Royal Artillery, for their gallant conduct in those operations.—( Cheers.) That this House acknowledges, and highly approves, the services of the corps of Sappers and Miners.— (Cheeers.) To Rear-Admiral Baron Bandeira and the naval forces of Austria under his command. To Admiral Walker, and the forces of his Highness the Sultan under his command. Which were severally carried nem. con. On the motion of Lord JOHN RUSSELL, it was agreed that the Speaker do communicate the above resolutions to Admiral Stopford. and to request him to make known the same to the officers and men under his command. COPYRIGHT BILL. The Order of the Day for the second reading of the Copyright Bill having been read, Mr. Sergeant TA LFOURD said, that after the dis cussion which the principle of the Bill .had under gone in that House, he should . feel himself un worthy of the attention which bad been accorded to him on former oceestoss if he were to oc cupy the House for more than a few minutes; and were it not for some misconceptions that existed as to i the principle of the Bill he would not have said one word. One misconception was with respect to that which formed the main object of the Bill—the exten sion of the term during which authors should retain an interest in the works of their own minds. He supposed that because the term of 60 years was mentioned, that therefore those who supported the Bill of necessity in sisted on that term being retained in the Bill. He lied always taken every pains to let it be understood that he was not by any means wedded to that term, but that a less term would satisfy him. There were indeed certain Hon. Members whom ho would not ask to vote for the second reading of the Bill, but he would ask those who were ready to support him to follow the project introduced into the Chamber of Deputies in Paris, for the purpose of giving a copyright to the extent of 30 years. That measure was introduced by the Minister of Public Instruction, with the assertion that he thought a perpetual copyright was but just, and he regretted that it was not in his power to propose that instead of thirty years. He (Sergeant Talfourd) would ask those Hon. Members who approved of that measure to vote for the second reading of the Bill ; e nd he would ask them whether they would not give something just on both sides. He thought that the promoters of this Bill were misunderstood when it was said that they overlooked the question of expediency with respect to the publishers and the public. He (Sergeant Talfourd) did not certainly love that word expediency as much as certain Hon. Gentlemen on the other side of the House. He had, with astonishment, heard it said that their duty to authors was to give them as little as possible, so that they might play upon their (the authors') love of fame. When he heard the creations of the mind compared with the usual lot of land, he was not able to avoid asking the question, whether those who occupied no space possessed by others—whether those who altogether created that which was to be a system of instruction for the human mind—whether those individuals were not entitled to the benefit of their own work ? But he denied that he had placed the principle of that Bill merely in that light. He had regard to what was expedient to au thors, to publishers, and to the public. As to authors, it was enough to say, that amongst the petitioners in favour of that Bill were some of the greatest authors, and who were entitled, he should say, to the thanks of that House. (Hear, hear.) As to publishers, with one or two exceptions, the pub lishers were quite satisfied with the provisions of the Bill. Then with regard to the public, he always con• tended that in the first place, the public should learn justice. He contended for that, because it was expe dient it should be kept in mind in the subject of this Bill as wi.ll as in matters of law and justice. In the year 1814. there was a greater extension of copyright than that he now asked for. The term of copyright, which was fourteen years, was then extended to 28 years, and precisely the same arguments were then urged as against the present Bill, that hooks would be come dearer, fewer written, fewer published, and fewer bound. Now, since the year 1814, the books had greatly increased in number, and diminished in -price, and, therefore, had he not a strong and unanswerable proof that extensions of copyright by no means implied dearness of books ? He had only made these remarks for the purpose of showing that it was a misunder standing to say that he rested the right of this 13.11 merely on the ground of some natural right, without regard to expediency. He would. only . submit to the House, in two sentences, two considera tions, which seemed to him to prove an absolute neces sity for this measure. The first was, that it was only by this means they could give to authors the power of preserving the purity of their works, and of securing them from pretended ebridgements, which would eines . culate, or pervert, or pollute them, and give to those, to whom it would be a labour of lore—their families, and those who cherished their memories—the means of pro . tecting them front such injury. The next consideration ; was, that, as it was too much the tendency of the pre , sent day to purchase works of light and airy character, and of temporary interest, and as such works were abundantly rewarded by the immediate profit they af forded, it became them to encourage that which was slow in production, high in aim, and lasting in duration, and not to say that all the profits should be . given to the labours of a day—( Hear, hear, hear)— ; that those who vindicated their own powers for im mortality, as far as it could be judged of by the years ; of life, should not go without their just reward.—( Hear, hoar.) He would not trouble the House further on a subject, which he believed, on his part, was quite ex hausted. He therefore begged leave to move the second reading of the Bil. , I Mr. MACAUL AY said it was in some sense with pleasure th It he approached a sal ject with which poli tieal , I rise without considerable anxiety. It was painful to , him to take a part which might be misunderstood and misrepresented as unfavourable to literature and literary ' men. It was painful to him to oppose his Hon. and Learned Friend on a question which he was sure he . I had taken up from the purest motives, and had sup ' ported with distinguished ability.—(Cheers.) But so . satisfied was he that the proposed measure would con fer no boon on men of lettiirs, w hich would compensate for the injury it would infleet upon the public—(He ir, hear)—that he felt it his duty to express distinctly li's disapprobation of it. One word on the subject to which the greater part of his Learnel Friend's speech related, for it was surely important that in starting they should distinctly settle on ;ilea principle the question rested. Was that a question of right, or a qu-sstion of expediency ? It was of gr at importance to determine that, because if it were an undoubted question of right, he should be by no means (lisp ...cc' to join in any compromise such as that which his Hon. and Learned Friend acknowledged his Bill to be. if there were a right in the case, let that right, he should say, be vindicated, no matter at what cost. He knew :hat some of those who had written on the measure, and some of those who had presented peti tions in favour of it, laid it down as a principle, that a man had, by the law of nature, an indefeasible right in i his own ideas, in the fruits of his own imagination, amid his own reason. The Legislature lead, of course, the power to take away that right, as it had the power to pass an Act of Attainder, or to cut ( ff the head of an innocent party; but as such an Act of Attainder wou'd be considered an act of legal murder, so an Act th -1 priving authors of their natural rights, should be looked upon as an act of legal plunder. For his part, he most [ certainly held that property was simply the creature of the law, and that the law which created property could be defended on no other ground than that it was a law which tended to the benefit of mankind. But even though he were to admit that property had a different origin from that, that it was a right independent of public utility, he should still hold that the right would at all events expire with the original proprietor. Whatever opinion might be held about the origin of property itself, he maintained that the right of succes sion to it, as it now existed, was at all events the crea ture of the law. How, then, could the right of suc cession be considered as a right registered in Heaven, as a right written in the minds of men, and anterior to all legislation ? If there were such a law he was sure that the law of copyright was by no means the only in stance in which it was violated. He need go no fur ther for an exemplification of that than the manner in which personal property deseeaded, it, acing in certain cases limited to the eldest son, in other cases divided equally among the children, or being allowed to be transmitted to strangers. Whatever might be the me taphysical opinions entertained as to the origin of the right of property, there could be but one opinion, IL apprehended, as to the principle by which legislation as to the distribution of property should be guided, and that principle was the public good.—(Loud cheers.) Now that was the whole question between his Hon. and Learned Friend and himself. He did not wish to infringe upon or interfere ev'th the right of the author during his life, and the whole question between himself and his Hon. Friend, therefore, r:!• duced itself to a question of posthumous copyright.— (Cheers.) With regard to that, he contended that the Legislature had a perfect right to act as might seem to it best, that it was quite fair to act in any manner which it might consider most conducive to the public good.—(Cheers.) Let them now descend from the clouds, and come to the practical consideration of the question as to the duration of posthumous copyright ; and in considering this question, it was to be recollected that there were evils on both sides of the question. He wished to see the most ample remuneration secured to authors. We could not expect our literature ' to be kept up unless this were the case. It could only be kept up by the exertions of those who had leisure af forded to them to pursue their literary labours. It would not do to trust solely to the exertions of the rich and noble to effect this, although among that class there were to be found those who reflected the highest honour, anti who had been of the greatest possible service to literature, but they were not impelled by necessity to those exertions, anal although the desire of usefulness, and the desire of distinction, were doubtless great motives to exertion with that class of men, yet in this country, as the House was well aware, the bulk of men of that class who were actuated by those motives devoted their attention to politics, and, therefore, the bulk of them could not, of course, be depended upon to forward the cause of literature, which must depend upon the exertions of men who looked to it for their remuneration. Now, there were two ways in which that remuneration might be afforded to literary men—the one was by patronage, the other by copy right. With regard to the first, it might be, and doubt less was desirable, when the reading public was small in number, and the author could not obtain a sufficient re muneration for the sale of his works, that an author should enjoy the same sort of patronage as he had in the days of Mecaenas, of Louis XIV., aed which had been extended to literary men in this coun try by Halifax and Roxburghe ; but no one, if I he valued the dignity of the literary character, would wish to see such times as these.—(Cheers.) I I He thought that literature ought to depend for support 1 upon the many, and not the few.—(Hear, hear.) ' A I I particular case might arise in which it might be proper, nay, in which it might be the sairel duty of the Government to confer a pension upon genius in dis tress, but it was not right—it was not reasonable—that literary men should be taught to look to patronage of that sort for their support—(Cheers)—and the effect of their doing so would be to turn their minds, which na ture had formed for the blessing and ornament of so ciety, into its scandal and its pest.—(Loud cheering.) lie would admit that the giving a monopoly to the au thor was by far the most advantageous method of af fording remuneration to the author, but on the other hand monopoly had its evils. When his Hon. and Learned Friend said that it was a theory that a mono poly increased the price of works, it was the same thing as saying that it was a theory that the sun gave us light, that it was a theory that lead was heavier than water. These were all theories, which were the results of the experience of all men, of all ages, in all times, and he should as soon expect to hear the accuracy of any de monstrated mathematical tru'h called in question, as to bear it denied that the effect of monopoly must neces sarily be an increase of price.—(Cheers.) If the theory of his Hon. and Learned Friend as to the ten dency of monopolies to cheapen articles were correct, he should be prepared to go much beyond the present Bill.—(Cheers.) Why not make the monopoly per petual ? Why not restore the monopoly of tea?— (Cheers.) Nay, why not restore all those monopolies which were in existence in the days of Q :eon Elizabeth, and which had roused the people of this country to such a pitch of indignation as to make even that proud Princess flinch before the spirit of the people.— (Cheers.) There could be no doubt that, abstractedly, monopoly was an evil, and between these two evils they must take their choice and exercise their judgment, so as to devise the plan best for the public good. He had no hesitation in saying that the aid which the present law gave would be greatly impeded by the measure proposed by his Learned Friend, for it would have the effect of giving a sixty years' monopoly, which would be highly injurious ; for the effect of it would be to give an advantage that a man probably would never enjoy himself. In such a case, what would that man care for that advantage ? Was it reasonable to suppose that that would produce any great effect upon his exer tions ? It was probable that a time would come when property in Australasia would become exceedingly va luable, but would that induce any man to give 5/. for a whole province there now ? Dr. Johnson died about sixty years ago, and, if bid Learned Friend's proposition led been law, there would have been a monopoly in his works. Did any one think that the prospect of such a thing would have given the Doctor any pleasure, or have increased his exertions ? Certainly not ; he would much sooner have had 2d. to buy him a plate of beet at some of the coffee-houses in the Courts in Fleet-street, where he was obliged to go. He (Mr: Maceulay) could buy Rasselas at the present moment for Is., whereas if his Learned Friend's proposition had been law he should have been obliged perhaps to have given ss. He should not grudge any amount he paid for books in consequence of the law of copyright, provided it gave increased hopes and energies to the author ; but when he was convinced it would not, he must say that the public ought to have the benefit of having their • works at a cheap rate. The effect of copyright was to levy a tax upon readers ; it was a tax upon the purest pleasures and pursuits of mankind, and it was a tax hostile to the vir tues of the people. He had no objection to give 20,000/. to Dr. Johnson, hut he objected to imposing a tax of 20,00 C/ upon the public without giving Dr. Johnson one farthing's-worth of pleasure. No one would be more . rejoiced than himself to sco a descendant of Shakspeare . enjoying the profits of the works of his great ancestor, but be would remind his lion. and Learned Friend that 7 probably there was no species of property which was • less likely to be enjoyed by all the descendants of an author than copyright. It would be sold to the book sellers long before the end of sixty years.—(Hear, hears.) Would the bookseller give the same price for a term of Of/years as he would for a term of 10? Every one knows he would not, fo- nothing was more uncer tein than the value of copyrights: after so long a period. Every one knew the estimation in which Cowley's works were held in the time of Charles 11. and yet who now read them ? The same might be said of Lord Bolling broke's works; they were eagerly sought for at a high price when they first came out, but in 1810 they were no longer thought of. He would say, therefore, that . there was no species of property that would be parted . with to the booksellers at a price so far below the bur den of the tax imposed upon the public as copyrights. If he could select instances of the absurdity of such protection he should mention a case which had been referred to more than once by his Hon. and Learned Friends he meant Milton's granddaughter. Trey were all aware that Tonson the bookseller went to the Court of Equity and obtained an injunction to restrain the . printing of " Paradiss Lost." The injunction was oh tained in 1752, and Conies was performed for the be ni.fit of Milton's granddaughter in 1750. If they went round the whole course of literature, they could not 'find so striking an instance of the inutility of such pos -1 tection. The party who printed a cheap edition of Milton's works was punished ; and, in the meantime, what became of the only person in whose welfare, if living, Milton would have felt an interest ? His grand daughter was starving, while the public were compelled to pay an exorbitant sum for his works, and they were also compelled to pay a suns of money in charity for the relief of his grandlingliter.—C.;licers.) But there was another danger, as far as his knowledge went, that had not been adverted to in the strong manner it ought—it was a matter :which some believed chimerical, but which lie believed to be real, and it was a danger likely to arise, whether the copyright got into the hands of the booksellers, or remeiried in the hands of the descendants of the author. lie spoke not of mutilation but of the utter suppression of valu able works.—(l - fear, hear.) . He bslieved there acre a great many persons who, it they had their own way, Fielding's novels and Gibbon's 1 - ;story, n ver would have /seer, printed.—(Hear, hear.) There was another author to whom he should also refer, and he was sure his Hon. and Learned Friend would admit, that Richardson's novels were among the most original and striking of all the English writers, and no one went closer to nature, with the exception of Shale.- , speare, while none had spread the fame of English literature more widely. Mr. Wilberforce, in speaking of the anti-Christian tendency of works of that nature, marks Richardson's as an exception ; and Mrs. Hannah Moore declared that it was from the writings of Richardson she first derived those principles of piety that were her guide through life. Now no one could suppose that a book like that could be suppressed, and yet his firm belief was that if the copyright had been in the hands of his descendants it would have been sup pressed. He was intimately acquainted with Richard son's grandson, a clergymen of the Established Church. That gentleman had a strong feeling that novels were frivolous reading, and he would not admit them into his house. He would not read his grandfather's works, and if ha had the power ho was satisfied he would never allow them to be printed, and that a Clarissa, or a Sir Charles Grandison would have been as hard to have come at as a Caxton.—(Loud cheers and laughter ) Another question wou1:1 arise—what did an edition consist of ? Would 12 copies on large paper, at 20 guineas each, be considered an edition, or were they to lay down precise rules as to the number and psice ? Every body knew what were the feelings of the eldest son of Boswell: He thought the greatest blot on his escutcheon was the whole of the relation that existed between his father and Johnson. It , was his (Mr. Macaulay's) belief that actuated with that strong feeling of vanity and pride, Bosweles son would have, if not altogether suppressed his father's work, rendered it so difficult to be obtained that it would he in the hands of but very few at the present time, had the Bill now pro posed been then the law. It would indeed be as diffi cult to come at any of the works he had mentioned as at the first edition of Camden's " Britannia." But if the present law was to be superseded by the lion. and Learned Gentleman's Bill, what was to become of ' books affecting the great sectarian and political parties ? It was now, he believed, just fifty years since the great ' John Wesley founded that sect which was one of the greatest and most flourishing ever founded, whose mem bers were now counted by hundreds of thousands. That sect was indeed a union in the highest degree remark able, and its power and influence on all public occasicns, such as political elections, &c., were counted upon as of the greatest importance to every party. Tee me mory of the founder of that sect was held in the greatest veneration by his followers, and his journals were of the highest interest, as containing the whole history of the rise and progress, in its infancy, of that important sect ; his hymns, too, were such as would be, read wills interest by all persons. Suppose, then, that the copyright of the works of Wesley were to come, in the course of transfer, into the bends of persons entertaining the feel ings which many persons did entertain and publicly ex pressed respecting Wesley—why it was only the other day he took up a book in which he saw Wesley called a for sworn priest—suppose, then, the copyright of Wesley's works came into the hands of persons who thus felt and spoke, how difficult it would be to obtain those works ' so much regarded, and to which such interest attached, if indeed they were not suppressed altogether ? Again, suppose the case of the Book of Common Prayer being suppressed for any period of time, why the price would mount to five guineas, and such a monopoly as that, in , his opinion, his Hari. Friend's Bill would go to esta blish. What he . (Ms. Macaulcy) apprehended was, that if his Hon. Friend's Bill should pass, if it. produced one-tenth of the grievances that its passing into a law was certainly calculated to produce, the evil would be great indeed. He would say that if that Bill became the law of the land—that as the poacher evaded the Game-laws—as the smuggler evaded the Revenue-laws —so would the piratical bookseller evade the law now sought to be enacted. After some further observations on the grievances that would arise to the public in ge neral from the passing of the Bill, the Right Hon. Gen tleman concluded by moving that the Bill be read a second time that day six months. Sir R. H. INGLIS felt great difficulty in following the Right Hon. Gentlemen, after an exhibition of so much eloquence, so much research, and powers of il lustration, perhaps unequalled in that House.—(Cheers.) EVENING ht lint he could not but think the larger pa rt of the ftle tbe Hon. Gentleman's argument applied as strcwiSlYito. b i g existing system as it did to the measure prepoeu by Hon. and Learned Friend. The arguments. •ra Right Hon. Gentlemen were not arguments of r i ot ciple, but of expediency. The Right Hoe. Geer s : had entered largely into the subject of the origin perty, but there was not a word about this in the Bil l his Hon. and Learned Friend. This being the ea!e'i. the illustrations of his Hon. Friend wo uld be,as affri cable to the term of 28 years, under th e esisting.ll'2o applied to all works produced in the last Year tiss author's life. Exactly in proportion as a mall 6 , 5( 1 not for the day, but for posterit wou ld he be beeF, s, by the Bill of his HonourableY' and Learned Fr'cdPss He thought the course taken by his Hon. Fri -n4 ,,,te most inconsistent, since he understood h is objeeloielsa the Bill to be founded, net on its principle.,".ooll degreee. The boon that was asked could en'Y 8 7 4 . to E those whose works deserved well of their eneeid very argument that had been used by the cou ld Learned Gentleman against the sixty equally apply to the twenty-eight years. ll e b°l lo ro od ' therefore, the House would allow the Bill to be second time.—(Cries of " Divide, divide.") a' bt Mr. Sergeant TALFOURD replied. fle tq u i° o l that if the Right Hon. Gentleman ePV SiIO : that really cherished those deep and strong conviction, bsd the Bill was calculated to inflict those injuries betios mentioned, he would have expressed those eontwost upon some of the many former occasions the 5 , Of had undergone discussion. The observations olliftos Right Hon. Friend had made, and the. c le ?' o 4!, years, v! he had laid down with respect to propertY it asuld might be equally urged against. all property. 1 01 0 apply to all who were endeavouring in this ifeeettbeit life to accumulate property for themselves 401 posterity. Was it authors only who bad priii sons ? Might not others have descendantestiest might dissipate their property ? The House nlig"thos as well refuse to a Marlborough or a Well ie g ta tat t/ ' honours which their illustrious services entitled Oleo? because they might, perchance, have unworthy dee.ot ants. He would, therefore, dismiss that argueletotSo bang unaorthy of attention. Then with resPe et Taese supposition that books would be suppressed. e 0• again p the same argume n t w ou ld a ply toletheh O o l ot hor But he would ask, might n o t works w h i - y o g' might desire to suppress be brought forward? inns' no evil to an author, if he - h a d published song turn misconception, or written something of :n so riper and maturer years he h a d repented--swe'osla that if he written one line which, dY i e g ' 1 1 0 be blot mat, but could not blot out when dYleg ; ' that continued before the world? t ille i r t ; i h le; pourable Friend had not attempted o any one of the great examples been adduced in support of the Bil l ' tiVe ' not to led with the cases of Inc e Pr Wordsworth, who was suffetina under undo de to the glect, and who, of too noble a mind to Pir e h r roue! taste of the public, had waited his time, an worifa,ll't that, when he had arrived at a venerable tittl e "' a t 1111 ' works were beginning to. be profitable, lbethiln • ...,ool! moment the profit was snatched from hear.) Was it not just and noble of tbe to hn eid men who looked beyond the grave, O a " - t future in the past ?—(Hear, hear.) h lion. Friend supposed that the rnonopolY' at bad' books dear ; but experience had shown that such tendency. The extension of the Itne eer tlall del' fourteen to twenty-eight years, far from be r at her P rcr t by an advance is the price of books, had rt.' e t dit duced a reduction, and it was natural to eer o - sesq, it would do so ;as books could be produced me re pf by one press, one set of publishers, and °De 110 all vcrtisers than by fifty. He would not have tr° l, u •iA l i bt House at this time with any observations, if,".1.-eotbri Hon. Friend bad not thrown the weight of 1 1 ; a tion e ' rity, the grace of his eloquence, and the le, se lsril l l his style, into the scale in opposition to till ° - S s iee.,. He (Mr. Sergeant T.), however, thought the 'ol.;Caoaw Wordsworth, Southey, of Moore and Roge rP os bif ridge, speaking, as it were, son of Sir Walter Scott—(Cheers) -- is e is against all the powersand genius of le the Friend's address.—(Checrs.) from the grav e ' " fi ls v,7: 4 Lol a Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, House divided, when the numbers were' 3s For the m0ti0n........ .............. fur the nmeedment ............................. M........................... _,•••• Mr:MUM, PPOITsSIOIN. • aro Mr. HAWES moved for leave to b ril l; - 111 1 6'4-I t " to amend the laws relating to the Medical riTtlis The Hon. Member said, that as he underston' eillh; i tion would not be opposed, he would not thf Of ito any details with regard to the provisie°s measure. r ,ao , i s Mr. MA. r. FOX ULE did not intends t err oe' t a reg./ motion. He thought that some reform w" is the laws relating to the medical professio ill' a ' 0 01 1 , 1 try was certainly desirable ; and he beli c ;'? g g stating that opinion he expressed the fe e : l l ;6°,s' three great medical bodies in the country---,l' ay'r of Pits s'cians, the College of Surgeons , e ll " pony of ApotPecaries. Mr. IV AKLEY said, that if the fle e 'tprre s o pld who had lest addressed the 'llJtts,? W ert/ C p fil .l tt, support such a measure of Medical rcf cr i - i have the senction of the three bodies 4 ` 1 0 7 1. 11) . b)io would not give satisfaction to the profession. b e o A it the gwas ic l eo ' a h mt e e itftahcatt possibled w i a s s s a , t t i s h af o ‘am s c e toiu bodies had gi t° t - 'j ot s desir e e which so generally prevailed I t i l ' 'o i a t f i t a tdb r - i ie!i s s e a r isfa , c;) e r ra ;lircr o 6 t o ot • Mr. WARBURTON concurred. in te e i",, c oe sc or the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat o t o - dres", thought that a reform in the three gre'l i t selves, r and their statutes would ho 06 d - 14 . .' fir vv,uld not now go into details, but he beP5 die t ! ) , Friend . would be more successful in plc'l bed , of e!sion with his Bid than he (Mr Warhurtoc h 5 10 56 0 0 with the one which he had int;oduced e t t- b c e 2b° er e fa;e n d n it his duty l tn ie last Session. opposefelt bound any t Bill taythicbilo;lecitti.blicio •l to put down irregular practitionertsolh of strenuouslywould as he had opposed the CoPYrit'sl'oriingoe never consent to any provisions seohs,,o3l;oll porations to drag an irreau!ar practitioner ude Magistrate, with a view of nuttieg -° ,tice s fe r was not the method by which irregu'ar P re. ' wio a to nd be prevented. The principle had b ee s ° Id ePP over again, and had failed and he I ' 6l 111 I ,s any Bill embodying such a prit:e: - fr- ° Lord JOHN RUSSELL ge e ' s rlj' ,ree Under-Secretary of State, had been 111 1 ° J htt l oh - e i : e lais l na l ay a dn d esmtt n n e t as s u a r i d e t o li f a t reformthe n io t n ed of w t a h s e , ttilliarteetnhinedical corporalx-il;cosr acknowledged : nowledged that some me di e C a ° l r r P c ° fo n r l t nti°llllB4l o lt s c A l:tibir° would not now give any opinion en the tbrod ject, but would content himself' by 11 4r i l ln-1 11 0 ; thought it desirable that some more c e Vne should be taken to ascertain the Va' e sat. rr dical practitioners, than was taken at P r "tiel llue ; lll° Mr. HALFORD challenged the 11 '. 11 ;ase le s s 'biro li Finsbury to prove any char eof corruPti° to medical bodies ; and he should g like to knew, fa r° tate of them the Hon. Member alluded in hi jeg e 0 e cti lrl t his charge, and when the corruption bed t° ,, Pe etil la f l o 4# the op s M iGr r a H ind E N FRENCH 1 %art dical reform. not taken up rho '1 R. INGLIS „ fiae d e had accused the soon n t a th nd ink co o rr i tip e t h i a o r n g . ing The question of mis rot 51°1 0 .1 ' 11 was one that might be fairly discussed, he t t ositga to t corruption as the ColleateheofNPohbiseiciai:nrtel' °rfaeleeebliecelrtr.4 on the Medical Committee, b and us Y far as b e so - r strq'' no charge of corruption had been broua'ht bo t , tainly none had been substantiated.the of Mr. HU ME said the fault was not in at object,in the saynelatetuhre. questionlNled ical ought rel'or a toi I V7 )0 35 0 1 : 4-arC LIP I ,' " ot t° , Government. etNraiinbru.ttolovsAcaoyr(rLu A Pi; lEJonexitiolaioae,dyth.antdvicidtas. n ot a m t that any individual ''l had becti sao l/ / c 4: l / hand into too public purse. What he did 11 . 1 o 's tva e I petC ° ing thebe Medical Corporations with corruPtl.setly c v pO J meant to say, and .. he now did . d i c i o lferrc is j als'j j them, that in exercising the authority ' them by Acts of Parliament, and by cha rt e d !egis pro. legislated di.,lionestly—teat is, that theY tbe 1 10 do. ~ for their own benefit, and not for the g°°,,a aP rt fession and the public. If any doubt es j e i bin' sc o r mind of the Hon. Baronet, he would hob od tilP i c : to sponsiblc when the Bill was read a se cP d s har t j ) ;lo wheal he brought in his Bill, ss be enabled to do—(Hear, bear)--- 4. ° Ina hii4 ) e eo charge he had made. Mr. HA WES then bi al in the I ' l ' a eon" 'Oll dt d read a first time, and ordered see L that day fortnight. 131 1)- j; gl e J IRIS II REGiSTRA.TIO,- fci-b which be bolo gOO , Lord MOIt['ETH brought in the - t o tion Bill, which was read a first, trod oracr. a second, time that day f ortn ight. befor e The House adjourued at a Cill 3rte ' &Cheek to Monday. REGISTER STOVES, 3 it. wiu t l e gis ler 4 Poles for Window Curtains, Is. 3d. per foot. " - e ister s i i ,e l ', Bd. k:er inch ; elliptic stoves, 4d. per inch ; r i ;l °loon with bright fronts, bright and black bars, bgninch at feel I .°° 3 . ; brass poles for window curtains, ' ` H ale , oe ie t wigt, is. 3d. per foot ; 2 inches, Is. 81 ; a 2 int'Aete:Oijeiel' inches long, with ends, rings, and brackets, cf."" e r T ery , $f Catalogues gi atis, containing the price 0. eet. xstr ironmongery. 00 f " HIPPON and BURTON, Wells-street, I !.. , _ , ..—frs-,..-- , -----..— ,. ... -. • - • D I E D 4 0 On the 31st ult., at Stanwell, J. Gibbons, Esq.' . flor .40 fl or John Gibbons, Bart., aged 40. sir Oa" i t i l On the 3d inst., in Spring-garden-terrace, oat rison, K.C. 11. L leob r ga l SO . On the 30th ult., at Braywick- grove, near 00 , 0 1 Rev. R. Bouchier, A.M., rector of Brightwalt is, 1 , 17.. t.... . yO ll- 1 11 .sstrtf)o London: Printed anti Published by -ITA*'..- - - -02; .11 No. 112, Strand, at The' Sun-Ofliee, - o °' .o r lr''' the county of MidcUeley...Saturdoi, Magi ,d ~14. ojt I P SS 4 11;tp4J2 is C : ( PX111; OFF o t i 3hti tie 14 th publie tit* 1.11.4 Jug , h okN A V 'ln eh v (li t 44 C4 lt a4l