The Sun. — London, England, 1849-07-24 00:00:00

~~,~,: in this he had pursued what he considered a constitu tional course. While measures were passing through Par liament, the Government were responsible fear thz,m, but when they were adopted by the Legislalure, then the re ,ponsibility rested on Parliatuent.—(Hear.) lie said the, whole of our legislation had been inefileient—the early temporary, as well as the more recent so-called permanent measures; but in doing so ho wished to cast he direct or special censure upon the Government. He thought that the fact must be admitted, and therefore he trusted that in that, the first assembly iu the world, it would be resolved to commence a new policy—based upon the principle that, in order to maintain our high Place among nations, Ireland must be made ha ppy and Prospero us . When it was so, England would still hold her head aloft, and keep its place in the van of civiliza tion,—(Hear, hear.) The lion. Member concluded by moving the resolutions. Sir W. SOMERVILLE said there was very much in the speech of his lion. Friend from which he was com • pelted to dissent; but there was one part of it especially Which he must express his surprise at, namely, the as sertion that during the present session the 'louse had shown an indisposition to discuss Irish atiairs.—(hear, hear.) Whatever difference of opinion there might be Upon other subjects, ho thought there could be none as to the patience, the almost unexampled pstence, with which everything relating to Ireland had been con sidered.—(Cheers, and " No, no.") His lion. Friend himself was an instance of this attention to Irish affairs. At the end, he might almost say the last day of a session, which had been almost exclusively occupied with Irish affairs, the Honourable Gentleman came down and superseded the Irish representatives—(Hear, hear) — Whose peculiar duty it was to complain, if complaint was justifiable.—(hear, hear.) Though the Hon. Gentleman knew nothing of the country—(Hear, hear) —though he had never sot his foot in it, he now came not, as he said, to censure the policy. of the Government, but to censure Parliament for its legislation for Ireland, and of course to censure the Government for the measures which it had proposed to Parliament, and which had been adopted by it.—(Hear, hear.) He certainly must express his astonishment at the extremely inconsistent nature of the speech of the Hon. Gentleman. At the commencement he had alluded to the Labour-rate Act, and then to the Poor-law Act, and laid all the evils and sufferings which afflicted Ireland to these measures; but his Hon. Friend had not proceeded far before he came to the real causes of these evils, and denicted their antiquity and severity in a way from which he was certainly not inclined to differ much, but which, at the same time, he must say, did not throw much now light upon the subject, and he therefore did not feel called upon to follow him into de tails. He felt the more difficulty in following the Hon. Member through all the documents he had brought for ward, because there was scarcely one of the social evils of Ireland which the Hon. Member did not take up, but many of these were matters not to be discussed in a few hours in one night, but would require separate discus sion for successive nights.—(Hear, hear.) He would, however, briefly advert to the evils which the Honour able Member said had been caused by the legislation of Parliament. In the year 1845 the Right Hon. Baronet passed an Actof Parliament to provide for the pressure which threatened to bear on Ireland. That pressure did not prove to be so heavy as was anticipated, but in the following year the famine pressed severely on the country, and then the present Government proposed the Labour-rate Act as a means ;of staying its ravages. That measure did not materially differ from the former one, but the times and circumstances were different.— (Elear.)The Hon. Gentleman had pointed out its defects, but it was easy after the events to do so.—(llear, hear.) It was, however, a singular thing that at the time the Act was passing the Hon. Gentleman raised no opposi tion to it.—(Hear.) He now came forward and threw blame on the House and the Government. But where was he at that time?—(Cheers.) He was a Member of the House at the time, why was he not there to take his share in the debates?—(Hear.) Oh, bat, said his Hon. Friend, scarcely was the Act passed when the gentry of Ireland assembled and called upon the Lord-Lieutenant for a change; but he said the place of the Irish gentry was in that House.—(Cheers.) However late in the session it was, it was their duty to have been there to advise the Legislature as to the most practical methods of meeting the difficulty. It was no excuse that they complained to the Lord-Lieutenant of the con• sequences of their own neglect. (Loud cheers.) Well, then, the Honourable Gentleman having denounced this measure, and it was easy to do so, as he had said, after the event, proceeded to denounce the Poor law Act. In passing he would say, however, that the absence of the first would have sentenced hundreds and thousands of persons to death.—(Hear, hear.) The real truth was, that no one could have forseen that so much pauperism and misery would have to be relieved; but with all its defects it had met the emergency to a consi derable extent.—(Hear, hear.) With respect to the poor-law, he denied that it was intended to meet a fa mine. They had no reason on the Bth of June, 1847, when it received the Royal:Assent, to anticipate another famine like that of the previous year. It was a mea sure intended for the remedy of ordinary evils, and al though the Hon. Gentleman had depicted what he called an average sample of the misery and destitution of Ireland under its opeartion, he must take leave to Say that these statements were, in his opinion, most ex aggerated. Mr. HORSMAN—I quoted from the Blue Book. Sir W. SOMERVILLE said it was easy to go through evidence, and pick out a bit here, and another there, in order to make out a case.—(Hear.) But, as a sample of tho average condition of the horrors, the Hon. Gentle man took Ballina. Why, Ballina was not an average, but an extreme case, and even in it he saw hopes of a better time under the poor-law.—(Hear.) The return for the week ending the Bth of June, 1849, showed that the number of persons receiving relief was 2S,ooo—an enormous number, certainly—but in the corresponding week of 1848 they were 41,000.—(1.1ear, hear.) He thought, therefore, it was evident under the operation of this law, the pauperism of Ireland was decreasing. The suspension of out-door relief at this moment would be the sentence of death on thousands of persons. The Hon. Gentleman had taken the Union of Ballina as an illustration, but in the week ending this year 30th June, 27,700 persons were receiving relief in that union. In 1848, in the corresponding week of this year, there Were 41,000 receiving relief in the same union. It was greatly to the credit of the poor people, and completely disproved the charge of idleness and want of self-reli ance charged against the people of Ireland. Some of the money came from America, but a great proportion of it came from England and Scotland, whither they had gone to seek for employment. It was the opinion of Mr. Nicholls that the time had come for the extension of out-door relief to the poor of Ireland. The Right Honourable Gentleman then proceeded to answer the arguments advanced by the Honourable Member for Cocker mouth, with regard to the promotion of emi gration, and asked where he was when the question had been brought forward by the Honourable Mem ber for Limerick. He next entered into a vindication of the present system of taxation, and proceeded to show that a reduction of that area to estate assessment, for the nominal purpose of individualising responsibility, would not act fairly or beneficially. If the Hon. Gentleman's proposition were carried out, they should have farm as sessment, and that could not be adopted if the other pro visions of the poor-law were to be carried out. Tho re commendations of the Commission recently appointed on this subject were in progress of adoption, and they would have the effect of rendering the extent of area more adapted to the requirements of the country than was now recognised. He wished to state that it was not in the power of any Government to provide means to remove the great distress which prevailed, but they had supplied palliatives, which were granted with no niggardly hand. He was not over sanguine, but he thought there were hopes of a bright future being discernible for Ireland. The prospect of a good harvest was, he thanked Provi dence, easily discernible, and measures had been sanc tioned by the Legislature which were calculated to benefit the condition of Ireland. The Right Hon. Gentleman concluded by moving a direct negative to the motion. Mr. lIORSMAN explained. He had never expressed any desire whatever that the present potatoe crop of Ireland should be destroyed. What he said was, that he hoped th e cu l ture o f thi s escu l en t wou ld no t re m a in the life and soul of Irish agriculture. Mr. A. STAFFORD contended that the Government had neglected opportunities for legislating in au amelio native tive spirit for the people of Ireland, and red used to act the suggestions of those practically acquainted with that ___ country. H e th en proce e ded to review in detail the mqueeasBr" brought forward by the Government. The taxation, representation could not be separated from The Hon. Member for Glasgow (Mr. Mac• Hon or) Member wanted two Members for Kensington, and the for Limerick (Mr. John O'Connell) wanted two Members for Irel a nd, and if they talked about ex , tending taxation in Ireland, they could not refuse to ex tend also the number of Members. He could not help hadallading to the S av i ngs B an k C om mittee. The report the course not yet been rece i ve d, an d h e thought, considering course which the Government had pursued with re• ference to that C omm i ttee, t h e y w ere bound to exert themselves to bring the inquiry to a satisfisctore and speedy termination, as great public interest was excited on the subje c t, espec i a ll y among t h e h um bler portion of the community. Th e H on. M em b er th e n went on to allude to proceedings which had taken place with refe rer ce to the Irish Poor-law Amendment Bill, and espe cially to the rate in aid. The Poorlaw Amendment Bill was passed through that House in opposition to the wishes of the Irish Members, and by means of English Inajorities.—(L ou d cr i es of " Hear, hear," from the Irish Members.) And of such a character was that Bill, that it would lead to the inference that they had ono kind of legislation for Ireland and another kind for England. With reference t o the formation of the boards of guar dians, self-government was w was convinced that a system of local Mr. SLIEIL said,i the only way to regenerate Ireland. the 23d of July, aneh l e le could not forget that this was none of the Irish thought it rather surprising that proposit e o o Members nek had thought it judicious to originate a at all analogous to what the Hon. Member tor it t rmouth (Mr. Horsman) had brought forward. Surelyyde vo l v as not from any inefficiency to the task which bad on him, or which had fallen on him. It was not v f i r e d o: i any want of self. re- Hance of which his Hon. presented a perfect it had svas his H on . F r i en d model.—(Laughter.) How eeer,, thought proper to thought which specu lative Member for Coekermo ut h w ety 'some forward actuated by all that an lative sympathy could afford. B u t it not for that reason they found him in the f ront or the debate on that important question, but it was because his want of knowledge of Ireland was countervailed by organeontent otherf dis satisfaction dis tinguished qualities, especially to be thec . hat he and the polished mirror of ds es his (Hear, hear.) But let it not be supposed t in sinuated it was only by the use of eausti s Hon. Friend was dissatisfied. He could praise as well blame. He well remembered that in the courseoflaasst session his Hon. Friend the Member for Cockermouth Proposed to extend the income-tax to Ireland, and he mt riled eh tn ., (m ‘_ coraium on Lord Clarendon. I n d ee d he `+ 4 ) aid remarked that most persons Who were audience. lavish in their leraises of that Nubia Lord, were particu larly anxieus to wide reline the Government on whir* he cast so neuch lustre; but he did not confine his preiso to that Lord-Lieutenant, but extenekel it also to the Prime Minister, and considerately said that allowatn:es ought to be made fur the difficulti- s which Ministers had to en counter.—(Llear.) And wisely he d d so, for where was the man who eculd not make allowances fir the diffi culties incielent to the di,aseers, which, in the annals of national calamities, had never been eur passed—( eailr)— and yet his Hon. Friend , b y his motion, passed a con demnation on the measures which the Government had adopted, for it was his motion, and not his speech, which they had to vote upon, and that was a censure on the temporary measures which they had adopted for the relief of irela , al. Ile (Mr. Sheil) did not say that those measures NI are faultless. lie was no optimist of the Treasury Bench. He eves not one who thought the Government mnst be perfect becaue he might belong to it —neither did lie think it must be imbecile because he might not pertain to it.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) Ministers might have committed errors, but they were as nothing compared to the good that had been effected —thousands had fallen by the mysterious visitation of God, and millions had been saved by the generosity of England.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") The misery was beyond example, so was the generosity. When those mere temporary measures were passed and gone, what was the reason of the Hon. Member calling upon them to take this retrospective view—why did he call on them to inscribe an epitaph on the journals of the House? The Hon. Gentlemsn next proceeded to review the measure which had been enacted for permanent re lief ; but surely they were not now going into that dis cussion. The evils of the poor-law were quite clear — nothing could be so bad as a poor law fur Ireland, except its non-enactment.—(Hear.) Government had to choose between poor-houses and charnel-houses, and they chose the former.—(Hear, hear.) He did not blame the landlords for endeavouring to preserve their interests. It was natural they should do so, He (Mr. Shell) would receive with caution the opinion of an English county Member with reference to the duty on corn, or the opinion of a Manchester manufacturer on the Ten Hours Bill, or the opinion of an East India planter on the price of sugar, and iu like manner he had received with caution the opinion of an Irish landlord on the narrow dread of taxation.—(Hear, hear.) When the Hon. Member said that the misfortune of Ireland would be productive of her happiness, he could not but envy the fancy of that man who could raise up such a beatific vision. Olam Fodhla, the great Irish legislator, was but the precursor of the Hon. Member.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) The Hon. Member talked of a comprehensive policy—what did his policy comprehend—what was his unfathomable legislation? ,His (Mr. Shell's) opinion was, that the pre sent state of Ireland was such as no human laws could reach. The prayer with which they opened their debates must be granted. Ireland must often again teem with fertility. The slighless and mysterious influence which had three times blasted that island must be inter mitted. It was hopeless to expect that any great good could be accomplished by human legislation to the un fortunate country which had been visited with woes without example, and which could not be healed but by infinite mercy .—(Loud cheers.) Mr. O'GORMAN MAHON said, as so many Irish Members would feel it their duty to address the House, he would now move the adjournment of the debate, which was agreed to without a division. Upon to-morrow (this day) being named, Lord J. RUSSELL said he would offer no objection, but he could not allow the adjourned debate to take pre cedence of the business on the paper. The other orders of the day were disposed of, and the House adjourned at a few minutes past Twelve o'clock. INDEPENDENCE HUNGARY. MEETING AT THE LONDON TAVERN.-(Y ESTERDAY,) A public meeting was held at the London Tavern, Bishopsgate-street, yesterday, " for the purpose of ex pressing sympathy with the noble, maligned, and be trayed people—the Hungarians," whose cause has been so often advocated in this journal. _ . Long before the chair - was taken the large room n which the meeting was held, and the gallery at the 'oot of it, were occupied by a numerous and respectable The chair was taken, at one o'clock, by Mr. Alderman Salomons, amidst loud cheers. Amongst the gentlemen on the platform we noticed Lord Nugent, M.P., Sir De Lacy Evans, M.P., Richard Cobden, Esq., M.P., Sir D. Norreys, M.P., R. M. Manes, Esq., M.P., R. Taylor, Esq., R. Williams, Esq., Murdo Young, Esq., and W. Charles M. Kent, Esq., of Tho Sun ; Bernal Osborne, Esq., M.P., Sir Joshua Walmsley, M.P., F. Mowatt, Esq., M.P., W. Scholefield, Esq., M.P., J. A. Smith, Esq., M.P., John Williams, Esq., M.P., James Wyld, Esq., M.P., James Clay, Esq., M.P., Lord Dudley Coutts Stuart, M.P., Colonel Salwey, M.P., Hon. A. H. Moreton, &c., &c. The CHAIRMAN, in opening the proceedings, said he appeared before them to-day under a sense of the deepest responsibility—a responsibility, however, very much les sened since the debate in Parliament of Saturday last. —(Cheers.) That debate would carry to the country, and disseminate in every part of the empire, facts which probably would have been discredited, had they appeared upon less authority than eminent Members of Parlia ment, and our Minister of Foreign Affairs. This meeting to-day was not called for the purpose of upsetting thrones, of disseminating violent doctines to excite people against their rulers; but, on the contrary, to speak for an independent nation that had been attempted to be put down by the misrule and illegality of another nation connected with her, and on the part of a foreign invader.—(Loud cheers.) He would not have taken the responsibility of appearing as chairman this day were this question merely a matter between the subjects of a Government and its legitimate rulers even under op• pression. He thought it became the freemen in a free state to sympathise with freemen—(Cheers)—and by a peaceful demonstration such as that to give a spur to public opinion—(Cheers)—and he deeply regretted that a journal which had ever been looked upon as the bude light of public opinion in this country—(Groans)—had not on the present occasion taken that lead in regard to this question which he had fondly anticipated; but he saw this day, in commenting on this meeting, symptoms of coming round to thi s cause —(Ch eers )— an d h e f oun d that very journal a condemnation of the opinions that it had all along held.—(Laughter.) He found in the Times a letter from a correspondent, writing from Vienna, in this strain— " The Austrian empire, as such, is even more rotten at the core than you have been led to imagine,' not withstanding that you gave au admirable delineation of its present and prospective state before the occurrence of the revolution. What is more, such has been thee faithlessness with which the Government have abro gated the promises so recently and solemnly made, and so pedantic and offensive is the tyranny of the bureauocracy in general, that, little as you may 'be prepared for such an intimation, I must in form you that the Moderate and Constitutior.al party throughout Austria would view the dissolution of that empire, and its re-organization on new and more improved principles, with undisguised pleasure. The success of the Hungarians is viewed by the vast ma jority of the nation as the only possible means of rescuing them from the thraldom in which they are now held; and so far from being considered, as a psuedo-Hungarina correspondent would have you believe, a republican moo e ment, it is viewed almost universally as the reverse. A gentleman of the Moderate party who is on excellent terms with the Court, and holds a very eminent position at Vienna, frankly assured me that all he blamed the Hunga rians for was the false and vacillating position they assumed in their own Parliament at the outset of the struggle." He thought it right to state this to them in case there might be any one in the meeting who hesitated or doubted that he was right in asking the meeting to camo forward to-day and declare their opinion in favour of Hungarian independence.—(Cheers.) What was the value of opinion? He thought the tate of Europe was the best answer to that. It was a duty, therefore, seeing a nation like the Hungarians struggling for their independence, and striving to prevent their liberties being put down by Russian and Austrian bayonets—(Cheers)—that they shoo ld come there to-day as freemen, and Englishmen, and •as men of high feeling and morality and religion, and pro test against that wholesale slaughter that they saw going on in Europe ; tho burnings, and firings, and floggings,—aye, the flogging of females, too—(Groans and loud cries of " Shame, shame,") and these they should loudly enter their protest, and put the pressure on our Government to interfere in such a manner as to put a stop to such outrages on religion, philanthropy, and humanity. (Cheers.) There was another view of this question, and a very low view, but yet one which in this great metropolis ought not to be struck out. They had decreed in this country, by the voice of the Imperial Parliament, the freedom of commerce and of navigation ; our interest lay on the freedom of states throughout the world. The freedom of Europe was to us a matter of great concern.— (Cheers.) They might have a partition of Hungary as they had a partition of Poland. He would not detain them longer, but simply read two letters that he had re ceived from noblemen, whose presence had been ex pected at the meeting to-day. (The Chairman here read a letter from Lord Beaumont, apologising for his inabi lity to attend the meeting, but sympathising with its object. He also read a letter of apology from Lord Sligo, whose Parliamentary duties prevented his attendance, and stated that he had received similar letters from a number of other Alembers of Parliament.) He did not know that he need say anything further, because there were many gentleman present more competent than he was to give the history of the Hungarian struggle, and to suggest the best course for the meet ing to pursue. He would, therefore, give way at once to them, and first of all call upon Mr. G. W. Alex ander,—(Ch eers.) Mr. ALEXANDER then came forward, and was received with loud cheers. He regretted that the task of 'paving the first resolution had fallen upon so humble an indi yhlual as himself, bat p:rhaps the circumstance of Wa belonging to the Peace Society might have been a motive for placing him in his present position—(Cheers) —and it wes as a friend of peace that he appeared upon that platform.—(Loud cheers.) He felt, as the friend of peace, that they were called upon to give ex pression to their feelings in reference to the unjust and cruel war which was now raging between Austria and Russia on the one hand, and the Hungarians on the other.—(Loud cheers.) When public opinion exercised so important an influence on passing events, it was surely of no mean importance that a great city like London should express its opinion upon those cir cumstances to which the attention of the meetirg would be called to-day. When he looked to the history of the last fifty years, especially to that long war which waged during a considerable part of that period, and which lately the Prime Minister of this country de clared to be wholly unnecessary—(Loud cheers) — when he looked at that he was more than ever convinced that it was the duty of the people of a free country to express their opinions with re frrence to the desolating scourge—war, and especially when it was waged in a most unjustifiable and iniquitous manner.—(Hear.) Allusion had been made to the tone of the remarks contained in the leading journal of this city. He confessed that those remarks constituted another reason for his taking a part in that meet ing.—(Hear, hear.) lie had read them with disgust and indignation.—(Loud cheers.) That paper, he was sorry to say, appeared to him to have become the bosom and tsworn ally of despotism.—(Loud cheers, and waving of hats and handkerchiefs by nearly every one in the meeting, followed by loud hisses.) There was on the part of that journal, and of one or two others which might be named, very great consideration for our ancient ally Austria, but he was sorry to say that he saw in them comparatively little sympathy for the wrongs which were endured by the Hungarians — (Cheers)—there was little sympathy for cities laid waste by Imperial forces and by hordes of Cossacks. — (Cheers.) But while he deplored, on the one hand, the conduct of some of the leading journals, on the other he had great satisfaction in seeing that the cause was taken up by other important and influential metro politan newspapers.—(Cheers.) There was besides a judicious defence of the rights of the Hungarians in the last number of Blackuved's Magazine, and also an able ar ticle, which, though not so extended, is couched in a similar spirit, in the Edinburgh Review.—(Cheers.) The resolution which he proposed was to the following effect:— " That this meeting, without compromising individual opinions on the subject of war, regard with sincere admiration, respect, and sympathy, the noble determina tion of the Hungarian nation to maintain intact their just rights and the constitutional independence they have inherited from their fathers, against the tyrannical encroachments - bf Austrian despotism." —(Cheers.) He admired the earnestness with which the Hungarians sought to maintain their just rights, although ho regretted that they had referred them to the arbitra tion of the sword.—(Cheers.) He hoped that this meeting would induce the representatives of London to do their duty with respect to the Hungarian cause.— (Loud cheers.) He was glad already to see that Lord John Russell did not now qualify the Hungarian insurrection in the same language that he previously did. He hoped that he would be induced to use the influence of his high position to persuade Aus tria to make peace with Hungary upon just conditions. Mr, Alexander concluded by moving the resolution, and sat down amidst loud cheers. Mr. COBDEN, M.P., then advanced to the front of the platform to second the resolution, and was recived with loud and prolonged cheering. When silence was re stored he spoke to the following effect:—Mr. Chairman and Gentlemen,—l think after this demonstration to-day DO paper will have the audacity to say that the inhabi tants of this great city are indifferent to the state of Hungary, or to the objects of those despots who are making daring attempts to fetter her liberties and in dependence.—(Cheers.) Gentlemen, I appear here to day anxious to add my mite of sympathy to that which you are prepared to express for the interest of the Hun garians, and I think it right that I should explain exactly what my sympathy is, and what my objects are in coming here.—(Hear, hear.) Gentlemen, if I have one principle more than another firmly fixed in my mind, and one which I think it is not only necessary for the interest of this country, but for all countries to recognise, it is this, that a separate and inde pendent country should be allowed to regulate their own affairs in the way which to them may seem best, with out the interference of any other foreign power what ever.—(Loud cheers.) I make no exception to this rule. I include in it the right of the Romans. — (Cheers.) I include within the benefits of this principle the poorest, the humblest, the most degraded commu nity; for it is no answer to my principle to tell me that certain countries are not in a state to govern themselves properly. I say, the fact that a country is not able to govern itself properly, is no reason why you should go and attempt to govern it according to your own notions.—(Cheers.) I come now to the case before us— and I am anxious that no time should be lost, and as I shall not address you long I hope I shall meet with little interruptions.—(Hear, hear.) The ques tion before us is that of Hungarian independence.— (Cheers.) If this hed been a question simply between Hungary and Austria, I should not have appeared here to-day, nor would it have been necessary, gentle men, for any of us to appear here to-day.—(Cheers.) So long as the Hungarians were left to settle their affairs with the Government of Vienna, they were per fectly competent to do it, without the interference of the citizens of London. Why, gentlemen, they have, I be lieve, driven the Austrian army from their territories, and to all intents and purposes, therefore, they stand now in the position of an independent nation. —(Loud cheers.) So far, then, have they, by their own power, been able to maintain their own indepen dence against Austria. But, gentleme n, my object in coming here to-day is to protest against an armed inter vention as unjust, as iniquitous, and as infamous as any that was ever perpetrated by any nation.—(Ceeers.). I come here to protest against the Russian hordes pouring on the plains of Hungary , and I do so u p on the principle I laid down at the beginning. I would protest against an English standing army being sent into Hungary to fight the battle on the other side, and I now protest against the English Government sending a standing army of Englishmen to encroach upon the Theiss and Danube. I come here to protest against foreigners being there at all.—(Cheers.) And here, gentlemen, I must say that I have seen with some astonishment , in the speech delivered by Lord Palmerston—for I was not in my place in the House of Commons on Saturday, having had a three weeks' engagement to go up the river on a pleasure party with your excellent Lord Mayor—there is no mention of Russia. I say I hayse seen with some astonishment that Lord Palmerston, in making a long speech upon the that speechcharges fend himself against what I must say were redieulously unjust tandeer upone is nothimoinnetwheorHd of Lordsouse c o o f mmn, t on i yn rictty, he makes no men ti on o f R uss i a. —(Hear, e hear.) regret, or rebuke—not one word of the most moderate disapprobation against the cond uc t of Russia.— Now, - gentlemen, that i s the whole question— Russian (Cheers.) Russian interference. Well, I have citlrn— that I am not for interfering i n allowing oyOullr Government to send Englishmen to fight the battle of Hungary against Russia, and I come here now upon the same principle to protest against Russia going to the as sistance of Austria.—(Cheers.) Now, we may be asked, why do we assemble here when we are not prepared to follow up this meeting by a course of action highly cal culated to aid Hungary.—(Hear, hear.) Well, gen tlemen, we come here in the first place to express our opinion that we despise despots, and that opinion will have the effect of proving to the world that we are a free community, despite the efforts of Russia, while it will teach foreign despots not to believe the preaching of a certain portion of the press, when they tell them that any Minister, or any Government in this country can, by any possibility, lend its aid to the cause of despotism.—(Cheers.) That, now, is something, but then when we have done that, we can do something more. I belong to the peace party, though I cannot claim for myself those views which my friend who pre ceded me has explained. I am afraid, however, if we test those views by the New Testa ment he is right, but still we have not come here absolutely to commit ourselves to his opinions; what we have come here for is to raise the feeling of the peace party of this country against this monstrous aggression, and depend upon it we can do it in a most effective manner. (Hear, hear) We may be asked, how , can you bring moral force to bear upon these armed despots? Well, I will tell you. We can stop the supplies.—(Cheers) Why, gentlemen, Russia can't carry on two campaigns beyond her own frontiers without coming to western Europe for a loan. She never has dor.o so; she never has moved an army of 30,000 men without having either been sub sidised by England or borrowing money at Amster dam. I tell you I have had many opportunities of as certaining and knowing the state of Russia, having paid a visit there recently,when I went a little behind the scenes, and I tell you Russia cannot carry on two campaigns in Hungarians without coming to borrow money in Western Europe or robbing the bank at St. Peters burgh.—(A cry of " Question.") Why that must be a Russian agent or spy, for that is the question.— (Cheers.) The Russian party hero and abroad would rather that we sent them swords, cavalries, and bat teries of cannon, than that I should direct your atten tion to the facts that I am now going to refer to.— (Hear, hear.) I say, sir, Russia cannot carry on two campaigns without a loan. In 1829 Russia was engaged in a war with Turkey, and after one campaign she was obliged to apply to Hope and Co., at Amsterdam, for 40,000 flirins.—[Some interruption took place here.]—Let him alone (continued Mr. Cobden), I dare say we shall be able to convert him to our principles.— (A laugh.) I have told you that in 1829 Russia was obliged to borrow 40,000 florins from Hope and Co. to carry on a war of two years with Turkey. In 1331, when the Poles rose in insurrection against Russia, she could not carry on that war of nine months without contracting a loan, and only this morning I have seen a paper speaking of that particular loan having been contracted, which states that this loan is called in London the Polish Murdering Loan.—(Cheers.) Well now, gentlemen, I want to know, as a member of the peace party, it' we cannot do something to prevent Russia or Austri a f r om raining a loan in Western Europe again.—(Hear.) Now the issue of the contest alone depends upon that. I have told you that they cannot carry on a war without robbing the bank of St. Petersburgh, or borrowing money abroad. They have no one in their country from whom they can borrow— none among all their citizens can lend them a farthing.—(Cheers . ) R uss i a a l o ne enjoys the credit of being wealthy, on account .of the deevit a her diplo. Dentists, who are clever, skilful men, arid 'who'tnanage to magnify its wealth, but which no one who has investi gated the melees of Russia would believe for a moment. They tell us that the Emperor has wealthy 01 mines in Siberia from which we can draw any amount of gold ; and I believe that is sex ionsly believed by some of the gentlemen at the Government establishment in Threadneedle-street. Now, I have been there, and I know what is the value of these mines. The Russian Goys , ' n ment does not work the mines itself—( !Jere much noise arose from the silly conduct of some person at the end of the room, who, continuing his noisy conduct, was ejected.) If (proceeded Mr. Cobden) the friends of the cause which we have at heart will only be quiet, it will be impossible for any cue to make a disturbance. —(Hear, hear.) I was going to say, for I am anxious to bring out facts, nut alone for the present meet iwnhge,refoL(taheeyar,arheeafracts that n ill be listened to else the monstrous delusion, peshepolvve of the western world with regard to the resources of Russia. Now, it does nut work the gold mines a t n h d a t cheers.) s wishg the t o itself, but receives a per centage upon the work ing of them by others; and the working of those mines are not so profitable as other avocations pursued in Russia, since it y ields but 700,0001. or 800,0001. a year. Why, Russia gets ten times as much as excise on the ardent spirits consumed by its wretched, degraded, and debased population. — (Hear, hear.) After the gold mine delusion is dis pelled, they tell you that the Emperor of Russia has a great amount of specie in the vaults of the fortress of St. Petersburgh. Yes, there is a reserve of specie precisely in the same way as we have specie in the Bank of Eng land, but it is a reserve of 14,000,0001. to meet a circu lation of paper money of 40,000,0001. or 50,000,000/. the —(Laughter.) And bear in mind that present paper circulation of Russia has been used to redeem another paper money, which had depre ciated from 3s. 4d. to lOid., or one-fourth; and, indeed, the Government has depreciated their own paper money, for they have called in their own notes, and paid them out at 100., under a solemn protest on the part of the Emperor that there should be a reserve of s p ecie in the fortress of St. Petersb ur gh, to pay any dem and that might be made on acco u nt of the notes that had been issued. And yet th e i r tools, their d es p icable minions spread a report amo n g the credulou s, and say, that because the Emperor o f Russia has forsooth 14,000,0001. or 15,000,0001. in specie, the Russian nation is a wealthy one. Now if it goes to war it comes for a loan or robs the bank, and it takes that which no more belongs to the Emperor of Russia, or, indeed, to Russia, than the specie in the Bank of England, and which he has as much right to take as the Chancellor of the Exchequer would have to come down to the City and take the specie in the Bank of England. There are men who know I am speaking the truth. I know it be cause I was on the spot, and when I travelled there I made it my business to understand the things I am speaking of.—(Cheers.) Now, I should never have spoken thus of the poverty of Russia if she had not gone and violated that principle which every man who admires Hungarian fortitude and honour, and who feels an interest in the cause of liberty and patriot ism, is bound by every means to uphold.—(Cheers.) Well, now, these are my moral means.--(Cheers.) These are the means which I invite the peace party, not only in England, but throughout Europe, where they are gathering in force, to uphold.—(Hear, hear.) These, I say, are the means by which I invite them to put down the system of loaning.—(Loud cheers.) Will anybody in the city of London dare to be a party to a loan to Russia—(Cries of " No, no,")—either di rectly, or openly, or by agency, or copartnership with any house in Amsterdam or Paris? will any citizen dare before the citizens of this free country to lend money for cutting the throats of an innocent people? — (Loud cheers.) Why we have had such a project talked of. But let such a thing "assume a shape,' and I pro mise you that we, the peace party, will have such a meeting as has not yet been held in London—(Loud cheers)—for the purpose of denouncing the blood stained project—for the purpose of pointing the finger of scorn at the houses of those individuals who would lend Russia a loan for such a purpose—(Cheers)—for the purpose of fixing the indelible stigma of infamy to that person who shall lend money for such an unchristian and such a barbarous purpose. That is my moral force.— (ttear.) As for Austria, I suppose nobody would ever think of lending her money.—(Laughter.) Why she has been twice a bankrupt within the htst thirty or forty years—and her paper money is down to a discount of fifteen or sixteen per cent. Surely then no one will ever think of lending her money. Bet the peace party throughout the country will do this—we, will raise a crusade against every Government to carry on an un holy war.—(Hear, hear.) Well, don't let anybody talk of Russian resources and of Russian money. Why, it is the poorest and most beggarly Government in Europe. It has not a farthing—in last year there was an immense deficit, and this year the expenditure far exceeds the income; therefore, this financial year it will be far worse. Russia and Austria aro wretchedly poor. Why, there is not such a gigantic imposture in all Europe.—(Loud cheers.) They talk sometimes as though England and Englishmen were afraid of Russia. Now, I wish to disabuse all minds as to my views upon that subject. I don't come here to oppose Russian advances into Hungary, because I be lieve that in no possible combination—no accession of territory—no conceivable turn of events—can Russia in the least degree be dangerous to England. If Russia really take a step to require this country, or another great maritime power, like the United States of America—(Loud cheers)—to attack that power only, we should fall like a thunderbolt upon it — we would crumble that empire into its own dreary fast nesses in one six months by the aid of our shipping.—(Hear, hear.) Russia, a powerful country I I will tell you what it is. It has an army which it keeps upon paper without a commissariat — (Hear)—it has a navy without sailors, and a military chest without a farthing.—(Hear, hear.) How long is it since we heard that the Russians intended to invade Hungary ? We have heard of it four months, during which time the hordes of armed men that were - threatened might, had they been in earnest, have crushed the country had Russia the power of which it boasts. What progress have the Russians and Austrians made? I don't shut my, eyes to the peril' that awaits them when they get there, if a country like England, with the, forces at its command, might have gone through the country at this time. I don't speak of fighting the gallant Hungarians. I speak of the difficulties of the country. Everybody knows the difficulty they would have to encounter — for instance, the difficulty of carrying supplies. What stopped them was, the want of a commissariat and the want of money to bring it ; want of honesty on the part of those who have to administer it ; the badness of the roads, and the chance of being attacked by a hostile and indignant people, together with the poverty of the Russian Government, deters them. All this I trace to the undoubted poverty of the Russian Government. The Russian Government were for some four or five years engaged in making a railroad from Yos .ow to Petersburgh.—(Laughter.) The country was as level as this table—(Laughter)—and they were obliged to go to a banker to get the money quar terly to carry on the undertaking. Russia, a strong, a powerful, and a rich country ! Don't believe any such tales as these for the future. Refer them to me.—(Laughter.) Now we do not come here to interfere with foreign countries, or to make a crusade against foreign finances, until they have violated the principles of neutrality, and outraged the rights of in dependence. Therefore it is that I proclaim these facts, and. will proclaim them, and I dare Russian agents here to c on t ra di ct them.—(Great applause.) Again, I repeat it, stop the supplies, and do it not only for the interest of Hungary but for the interest of the Russians themselves. Keep them at home,they have plenty to do in their own country. There was abundant scope for them to deepen their own rivers, to drain their own mo rasses, and elevate the condition of their own people. This is what I want them to do, and not to enter upon a crusade with an unoffending people. It is, therefore, from mo tives of humanity, and the interest we take in the struggle of a noble people for its liberties, that we appear here to-day.—(Loud cheers.) Mr. OSBORNE, M.P., said that they had heard the resolution which bad been read previous to the one that had been put into his hands ; and in much of the speech which had been so humanely and well delivered by the member of the Society of Friends (Mr. Alexander) he most cordially and fully concurred. There could be no doubt that, abstractedly speaking, peace was the natural state of mankind—(Hear, hear)—but he would put it to them living in a constitutional state of society, which they did at the present day, if there might not be worse evils accruing to humanity and civilization than the calamities of war — ( Cries of " Hear, hear") and if the destruction of all liberty, and of all civilization, was not a thing more to be reprobated than the ap pearance of a station iu arms struggling for its just rights? —(Cheers.) He at once, although voting and supporting jointly the principle of arbitration, would draw a dis tinction between wars undertaken for conquest, and defensive wars, undertaken for the preservation of the rights and liberties of mankind. If in former times this great English people had quietly sat down before the inroads made on their liberties, where would they have been at this moment? Should he or his lion. Friend be standing before them this day advocating the sacred rights of a people fighting for its liberties against despo tism?—(Cheers.) Therefore he took the liberty to say he did in his conscience believe that a defensive war was a righteous and holy principle—(Cheers) — and he could fancy no sight more agreeable to the spirit of justice than a great nation struggling for its liber ties against an overwhelming and despotic power.— (Cheers.) He was not much in the habit of defending her .Majesty's Ministers— (A laugh)—but he could not agree with his Honourable Friend the Member for the West Riding of Yorkshire, in the reflection he threw on the Minister for Foreign Affairs on the late occasion; and he must do the Noble Lord the Member for the city of London the justice to say that he did not use the term " insur rection" in a bad sense.—(Hisses and cheers.) The Noble Lord was the friend of the Hungarian struggle; and strange indeed would it have been for one bearing the name of Russell —(Interruption)—and whose blood had flowed on the scaffold in defence of the liberties of his country, if he had been otherwise.—(Loud cheers.) Now, in much that bad been said by the Member for the West Riding he coincided, but he must take the liberty to say that in exposing the weakness of Russia he had gone rather too far, tor to be forewarned was to bo forearmed. Although Russia might not be feared she was not to be despised. Russia purchased five millions of stock the other day in this country. Mr. COBDEN rose to explain. The Russian Govern ment did not invest a farthing in the Stocks of this coun try or of France. It was a transaction performed by the Bank of St. Petersburgh, in consequence of the ex changes having turned greatly in favour of Russia, owing to such a large demand for grain in Western Europe. Mr. OSBORNE resumed. He accepted the explana tion of his Hon. Friend ; but he (Mr. Osborne) asked a power which felt no the zneoting if they thought <~ .'.,u ~ scruple in overwhelming a country would have any scruple in keeping faith with the public fuedholder? was his firm belief that Russia, to proscute her im pious and despotic purposes, would make no scruple of robbing that bank.—(Cheers.) Let the meeting re member that the whole theory of Russian warfare was to make the war support itself, as was said by Napoleon. Therefore, though he acknowledged that there was a nucleus of truth in what had been said by his Hon. Friend (Mr. Cobden), ho would bo sorry if any man in the meeting should feel that the Russian empire was to be thoroughly despised.—(Loud cheers.) Their Chairman, a mercantile man of great wealth and fame, would not have taken the chair unless he thought the con stitutional struggle in Hungary was one against despotic power. It was in 1526 that one Ferdinand succeeded to the Crown of Hungary; it was in 1843 that another Ferdinand took the necessary oath; and it was in 1849 that another Ferdinand broke the oath which he had sworn to the Hungarian people; and that was the cause of their meeting there to-day.—(Cheers.) It had been said that that country had a despotic and aris tocratic constitution ; it was so once, but the real leaders of the people were the magnate:, who were always anx ious to extend the franchise, and to recognise equality of religious rights, and they had on all occasions resisted the guerilla which sat at Vienna, and which never at any time gave its consent to the honest reforms made by the Diet of Hungary.—(Loud cheers.) And what was it that opened the oyes of the Hungarian Ministers? Why the rising up of those great spirits which always made their appearance in all countries when the occasion arose—he alluded particularly to a man upon whom he hardly knew, in his humble vocabulary, how to bestow sufficient praise. He meant the great Louis Kossuth—(Cheers, and waving of hats and handkerchiefs) —a man who embodied in his own person the noble feel ings and aspirations of the great Hungarian people. He had suffered for the cause, and was worthy of their deepest sympathies. In 1836 ho was connected with the press of Hungary, which was not then free, and he ven tured to publish the debates of the Hungarian Diet. For this crime he, at the instance of Austria, was convicted by a summary process, and was sentenced to imprisonment for three years.--(Cries of " Oh, oh I") He need not tell the meeting -the public spirit of the Hungarians, which was similar to the public spirit in all countries wherein men were oppressed, took him from that dungeon to place him in the proud position of being at the head of the Hungarian people. (Loud cheers.) Now, what wTehree Lowerthe c reforms hamer po of sewhich Kossuth in a in mem ber, and which was similar to the Ho use of Com mons, abolished all class privileges, abolis hed the ri g ht bp,rod by of the people to give a certain number of days' la • hour to the state and to the magnates, reduced the amount of taxation, extended the suffrage, and equalized all creeds.—(Cheers.) And what was the consequence of all this ? He united all the numerous races which constituted the inhabitants of Hun gary, so that even the Jews, who formed a large portion of the population, had shed their blood in the cause.—(Cheers.) Only the last month an Aus trian tyrant hung a gentleman of that persuasion at Raab. (Hear, hear.) Now this Louis Kossuth was denounced as an infamous man.— (Laughter.) He might, perhaps, be so if it were infamous to struggle against d es p o ti sm , t o en f ranc hi se the people, and to con ce d e equa l r i g ht s t o persons o f all creeds ; but th e y t oo k a different view of the matter, h(aCdh endeavourede e r s and hoped that, lik e ano th er H ercu l es , L ou i s K ossut h would strangle on th e one s id e th e ser p en t o f A us t r i a , and would give on the oth er a d ea dly bl ow to the Rus s ian ) to That puthighly down imaginative this h e ly man and sacredJ e lla c h e I c r h b cause by driving back the peasantry, but some of them, armed with scythes, brickbats, and atones had resisted the attack, and had spilt even their heart's blood in the cause.—(Cheers.) Only the other day a minister of religion was taken by the Russian invaders and whipped and hung, for advocating the rights of the Hungarians. The Reverend Mr. Vimer, who was well known in the City from his connexion with the Religious Tract Society, was now expelled from the country of his birth, and a price was set upon his head by the Austrian Goverment. The monster, Elaynau, had perpetrated deeds which outstripped all the horrors which had been committed by the Huns and all the other barbarians that had spread over Europe. Why, this Russian 'tyrant had laid his hands upon the female sex—even ladies at his instance had been tried, condemned, and scourged. While Russia might extend its despotism to Constantinople, and tyrannize in the south, they should not be too sure that war would not be brought to their own fire-sides.--(Cheers.) Instead of reading the bulletins of war at their own fire-sides it might have reached their very shores.—(Hear, hear.) He hoped that something tangible would result from this meeting—not a mere protest by words, but that they would show, by putting their hands into their pockets, that their hearts were engaged in the cause. — (Cheers.) They had already shown their liberality by contributing money for the support of people who were dying of famine. He knew of no distinctions of colour or of people, and he thought they might with equally good reason assist a great people who were struggling with despotism, for he believed that famine which killed men with hunger was scarcely more disastrous than that despotism which ruined the spirit of men, and debased them to the condition of serfs. He would rather be the starving wretch in the west of Ireland than the well-Ted slave under the paternal Government of Austria and Russia.—(Cheers.) He appealed, then, to the citizens of London, by the bombardment of Vienna and Pesth, by the apostles of commercial freedom—for the tariff of Hungary was free, whilst the tariff of Aus tria was exclusive —he appealed to them as the lovers of constitutional government—for Hungary had a free Parliament, and the Hungarians were all enfranchised—he appealed to them as the haters of war, and of the cruelty which flogged ladies at Presburg. (Cheers.) He appealed to them for all of these reasons, to express their fullest sympathy with the Hungarian cause, and to render assistance to those unfortunate refugees who had been compelled to come to this country. He appealed to his hearers as Christian men to give not only their sympathy but their assistance, according to the best of their means, to Hungary, and show their de testation of the proceedings of Austria and Russia, and concluded with moving the following resolution : " That this meeting view with detestation and horror the barbarous modes in which the war now raging in Hungary is prosecuted by the Austrian authorities and generals, and consider their conduct to merit the indig nant reprobation of all civilized nations." Lord NuQENT, in rising to second the resolution, said he did so in obedience to the call from the chair with pride and pleasure, and he should on no occasion, in no place, and at no time be speaking the truth, if he denied that it was with pride and pleasure that he testified his hearty concurrence, not only in the resolution, but in every word of the speech of his Honourable Friend who had preceded him. lie re peated, at any time and in any place, he should be proud to bear testimony to the holiness of this cause; but be fore this meeting, in the centre of the city of London —of that great metropolis of the famous city which was the cradle of English liberty which had formed the im pregnable fortresses of the country in the days of her warfare and her faithful refuge in distress—it would be affectation to say it was with reluctance he came forward as an energetic though humble supporter of the cause which had brought them there.—(Cheers.) They did not come there to declaim, for declamation would be an insult both to the object of the meeting and the spirit which animated every man in it, but to sympathise with the cause of freedom, and to denounce a despotic tyranny that was struggling to destroy the kingdom of Hungary, and driving brave men in a state of hopeless destitution to the shores of our coast. They came there not only to appeal to the pity and charity of the meeting on behalf of Hungary, but to appeal to the Government, and if the Government were slow to respond to the ' appeal, to appeal to the people, who were their masters and teachers, to tell them that they must no longer discourage or dis countenance the cause of liberty in Hungary by refusing to recognise the uationality.—(Cheers.) Now the case of Hungary could be told in a few words. It might be a large word, but he maintained that this cause was the most sacred in which liberty had ever raised her armies against despotism. It had no parallel in the modern history of the world. This was a large word, but he would justify . it. A more sacred cause had not occurred since the time when the ancient Greeks, against odds more formidable than in the present instance, overthrew their barbarian invaders. The cause of Hungary, too, was the clearest which had happened in Europe during the course of modern history. If the case o f En g lish liberty against the Stuarts was clear, he was prepared to show that that of Hungary was a thousand times more clear. If we resisted James the Second, because resistance became a neces sity and a duty, the resistance of Hungary to Francis Joseph was still more inevitable. The claims of James the IL, being King of the country, was to attack the ancient constitution of England by the assumption of a power to dispense with the law; but the attack made by the Em peror of Austria upon Hungary was that of an Emperor who professed to be what he was not, namely, King of Hungary.—(Hear.) That was an unjust attack upon an independent state by a foreign invader, who was pouring in upon it hundreds of thousands, not only of his own people, but of his hireling allies, who had not even dc. Glared war, and were therefore not within the pale of civilized relations so far as Hungary wasi con. cerned. The case of Hungary could be, tol in few words. Hungary was a free mo*rch created by five treaties spreading over a space Ipf F years, which had been confirmed by that great! in .national party called the great Pragmatic Sancti confirmed, too, by England in 1720, and confirmediby t oath taken by the late King of Hungary. The kibgdo of Hungary was vested in the house of Hapsburt . by the same force of circumstances that vested Remove, in the Crown of England ; and Hungary was as in dependent of the Imperial Crown as the Electorate of Hanover was independent of this country. The late Emperor Ferdinand, according to the Constitution, took the oath as King of Hungary, but before the im pression of the Imperial lips was cold upon the bold evangelist, he abdicated in favour of a successor who had refused to take the oath.—(Hear, hear.) It was not till the liberties of Hungary were thus menaced, that she took up arms with fortitude, and she rolled back the forces of Austria.—(Hear, hear.) Immedi ately after Hungary established a constitution, abolish ingc serfage, guaranteeing pe r s onal and civil libertyw, haonm placed at the head of the Executive a man _ se he should think it presumption to e o u n lefl im after the eloquent panegyric pronouncedlioss u t u h p . Pro by Mr. Osborne —namely, Louis s he case of Austria. longed, cheers.) So much then for of uss _ o_ the ; What should he say as to thseocatsreoops, toi 4se the un and groans)—Russia,o.." wtre Prime Minister, the fortunate phrase t lent to suppress an insurrec other night, " were tion"--(Hisses b u t ho trus ted and believed that those unhapp y words ) were not used in a sense de claratory o f disapprobation of the Hungarian cause. lie was bound to believe that a mo, whose name would ~AVJ be immortal as long as England lasted.—(Cries of " no.") Yes, the name of Russell—(Cr:es of " lie is en imposter," and groans and hisses, and partial cheer ing) —if not Lim, then the name of Lord Willian Russell —(A voice: " He has not a drop of blood in his veins")—who was a martyr in the cause of righteous in surrection; he would live in the memories of his coun trymen. But Lord Palmerston justified his dissent from the great Sir William Temple in treating the cause of Hungary.—(Cheers.) He was the most efficient mem ber of the Government, which he rendered respectable — (Hear)—he wished he had been permitted to follow the impulse of his genius. —(Cheers.) Troops had been sent, without a declaration of war, to carry " tire and sword" into an independent state, which he believed he styled appropriately when he called it a gigantic act of piracy —(Loud cheers)—since they were sent without any of those forms which rendered war legal among states. The Russian troops had been poured into Hungary, who were liable and deserving to b 3 treated as if they had served under the black flag of piracy on the seas.—(Loud cheers.) Hungary, when thus menacad, might have said to Russia—" With Austria we are at war, according to all those modifications by which in civilized times states endeavoured to mitigate the dreadful scourge of war. Though Austria disregards all those forms and modi fications, and shoots our brethren who fell as prisoners of war into their hands; though Austria scourges our women in the streets—(Shame) —for the crime of not separating from their husbands and not betraying their country—what if Austria carry sword and fire into the bosom of a free state—we have not, and we will not retaliate outrage for outrage. We will wage war against Austria as men of honour—as men of valour—as men of humanity —as men of generosity."—(Cheers.) When Russia poured into Hungary a horde of 300,000 pirates, Hun hary would be justified (thank God she had not done so)—Hungary would have been justified in the face of the nations, and of posterity, if she had said, "We shall deal out to you the measure to be dealt out to pirates; for you have not declared war ; we ask no quarter from you, and quarter we will not give you." No, they had adopted a higher and a nobler course. The Noble Lord then denounced the conduct of the Times in opposing the cause of Hungary, and more especially in publishing a letter from an anonymous person, a self-styled Hungarian, who impeached the character of Louis Kossath, and who had perverted facts and truth. Kossuth, who had been above the greatest temptations, and who had, in the midst of war, cultivated the arts of peace, of education, and of financial credit, kept up internal peace in the rage and fury of foreign war. But two honoured names —Count Teleki and Di. Pulszky—had defended that great patriot ; and since the anony mows slanderer had slunk into the silence a branded slanderer, where he would leave hirr. He confessed he had a prejudice against absolute des. potism, but that prejudice was very much increased when he saw that absolute despotism administered with cruelty. lie confessed he had a prejudice against per. jury, against shooting and hanging prisoners of war, and against the flogging of women.—(Cheers.) lie did confess—nay, he boasted—that he entertained the strongest prejudice against Austria, which was now under the government of a man, of whom, to use tht phrase of Abraham Cowley, and which was applied to a very different person—he said " There were two sorts of tyranny, a tyranny ex mala titula, and a tyranny ex mala exercitio, a tyranny which arose out of hav ing no title to the throne, and a tyranny which arose out of wielding the sceptre of Babylon. To your Highness most justly belongs that title of tyrant in both respects."—(Laughter.) Let the meeting then apply that observation to Francis Joseph, the Emperor of Austria.—(Cheers.) Now, then, he appealed to their pre judice against Austria, and to their prejudice against Rus sia, and to their prejudice in favour of Hungary, carrying on, as she was now doing, a holy and just, and he trusted in Divine Providence a successful struggle. Mr. RiorNoLns here attempted to disturb the arrange ments of the meeting, and against the remonstrances of the Chairman, insisted for some few minutes in inflicting an inflammatory speech on the meeting. The two resolutions were then put to the meeting, and carried with loud applause. Mr. RICHARD TAii.oe then came for ward to propose the next resolution, and was warmly received. fie observed the spirit which had prevailed through out the meeting with the greatest pride and satis faction, inasmuch as fur a long time past he had seen great apathy in this country, which he believed was pro duced by the deceitful arts of the public press, with regard not only to the question of Hungary, but also the question of liberty throughout Europe, if not throughout the world.—(Loud cheers.) There was ono point which bore upon the subject before the meeting, and t 3 which no allusion had been made—he meant the question of religious liberty, for they had already heard tnat, among other excellent institutions which had been established in Hungary, was that of perfect religious liberty and equality.—(Hear, hear, and loud cheers.) Hungary was the only country in Southern Europe where reformation had been able to hold its ground.—(Cheers.) Some persons who were formerly their friends had expressed an opinion favourable to Austria; but he (Mr. Taylor) spoke the truth when he said that that nation was nothing but an engine for priestly despotism. The power of Austria, it was said, was maintained for the defence of religious liberty; but so far from her being a friend to religious toleration, she had exerted her influence during the last ono hundred years in exterminating the Protestants from the Tyrol and other states.—(Hear, hear.) He did not think the Govern- ment was so much to blame as some gentlemen imagined. It was the people who were to blame for not having urged .the matter upon the Ministry; but he had yet confidence in good old English pluck ; he yet believed that the English people were the friends of liberty, and were quite ready to go to war in its defence if it were necessary.—(Cheers.) They gloried in the success of Bem, and took delight in his strategoms.—(Cheers.) The policy of the Times he could not understand; it was despicably jesuitical. It pretended to support the Ministry, and yet Lord Palmerston was constantly made the objects of its base attacks, not that his policy was bad, bat because they wanted to detach him from the Govern ment. He was, in a word, disgusted with its perfidious conduct. It had become the advocate of despotism and the supporter of the house of Hapsburg, whose history was one continued series of tyrannical incidents. Austria was spoken of as our friendly ally, but Austria itself was not a country—it was a house who had maintained power by troops and armies collected from barbarian races, and who had always been engaged in a conspiracy against the liber ties of Europe.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") It had subdued and debased the finest Italian states, while one of its representatives prostituted his own daughter to Napoleon, to obtain possession of Veuice.—(llear, hear.) He hoped, therefore, the country would pay no attention to the nonsense of one portion of the press about our friendly ally, Austria. Let them judge for themselves, rather than allow themselves to be press-ridden.—(Hear, hear.) He concluded by moving the following resolution :—" That this meeting regard the military intervention of Russia in the affairs of Hung Ary as wholly unjustifiable in reason and in fact, inasmuch as besides re-cpening and prolonging a san guinary contest which bad been already virtually de cided—it is a gross violation of the law of nations—the indefeasible rights of Hungary—and perilous to the peace, the freedom, and the general welfare of Europe." Mr. M. Mieees seconded the motion. He said he would not have presented himself to that inconveniently crowded meeting after the eloquent speeches they bad heard, had not his name been announced in connexion with the resolution. Whatever difference of opinion might exist among them, they all agreed and had met there that day to sympathise with freedom, and the struggles of mankind.—(Hear, hear.) He fully agreed with the philosophic speech of Mr. Cobden, more particularly that portion of it in which he contended that all states had a right to manage their own affairs—even ill if they thought proper ; for it was a leading element in the law of nations, which had been violated in the case of Hungary, that the intermeddling of other nations was fraught with danger. Austria was marked out by the Congress of Vienna, in order that she might constitute a great military power in the centre of Europe, and present a bar against the aggression of Russia on the other nations. She was c reated an independent powe r, and Austria, w hich was subsidiary to Russ i a , had no business t portion hero . w (Hear, hear.) Whilst he a g reed h a of what had been sa id by Lord Jolin " Russ great ell and Lord P a lmerston on Saturday, ho could not conceal from thathim they should have he ld that the relations entered intoel self at Vienna wore going disturbed, and that neither England nor France would permit it, whatever might be said by the Times and other papers who wrote as it did, because it believed its policy would be pleasing to a certain class of the comtnunity.—(Cries of No; it is bought: it has sold itself.") But let them have a few such meetings as this, and depend upon it the press, which was but their shadow,would follow them.—(Hear.) e could not conceive, in the late debate in the House of Commons, why there had been an unwillingness to allude to subjects which Mr. Canning would have stood up to defend.—(Cheers.) He knew that they would stand by Lord Palmerston, and would admire that states manship that enabled him to say, years ago, that the then " political state of Europe was an unsafe and a crumbling state. He asked them to give force to that propo sition. This was a question above all persons ; and he asked them to hold that language that had been held by the Liberal party in the House of Cull y, mons, who had said that, as far as England was con coo cerned, though they adopted the principle of non er- interference, it should be known that it was her ardent on, desire that other nations should enjoy that freedom .he which she herself enjoyed.—(Cheers.) The Honour )m able Gentleman concluded by seconding the resole ,ao tion by an eloquent appeal to the charity o cl u e • sympathy of the meeting on behalf I' lo l_ • Hungarian officers and soldiers now stone, to enable them to return !o de t d nee. The assist in fighting the battle of thedirrilar pe , o eacountry to hteous cause, and Hungarian cause was a just at ono which England was not only jus h tified but bound to s upport.—(Clieers.) The resolution was then put and carried unanimously. Lord DUDLEY 6TUART—.3Ir. Chairman and Gentle words to offer i,k to it y w ou fiell a w t bNe t . :l o i nr s ede l: e t ;s. e n. men ' —l ha " "c't m any I do not thick period of the day, and sary for me to e mploy more than .. a very engaging your attention, and in g obtaining oin g ytoournlsouTpe port to the resolution A% hich am which is, that this Government do immediately recog nize the independence of llungary.—(Loud and long con tinued cheering.) Yes, gentlemen, 1 knew ho w it would be. You do not want a lo ng s p eec h— you do not want a fine orator—but you only want an honest and an ear nest mind—(Cheers) — to come to point you the way that is right —you do not want many words to ask you to sympathise with Hungary —you do not want oratory to induce you to declare that Englishmen will ever be with people who are fighting for their liberties.—(Pro longed cheering.) I have always seen it; I have never failed to meet with a response, and a noble response from the people, whenever the subject of nations Wag- • gling for their independence was laid before you.— (Cheek s.) I have often spoken to you of Polend (Cheers.) I come now to speak to you of Hungary, whose cause is like that of Poland. 'Coe'inued ch, ing ) I speak to you of Hungar . Poles, are struggling for all th and have sworn to lay down their I their country, and to resist to the di nations of despotism.—(Prolonged not want much to be said to you to of such people, but it may be right explanatory of the real position hear)—because, although it is enoug the Hungarians are struggling for _ , penuence, s. still interesting also t o become acquainted with some of the details of their excell ent and most righteous case; and it is the more necessary to explain this, because the enemies of Hungary, the hired agents of Austria and of Russia, are never tired with going about the world and disseminating all sorts of ca lumnies against the friends of liberty, and their agents are to be found in every part, amongst the high as well as amongst the low—(Hear, hear)—in the press, in public places, in secret places, in Cabinets—(Bear, hear)—and, therefore, it is the more necessary that the truth should be told, and that the base machinations of the servants of despotism should be exposed.—(Cheers.) I quite agree with my Hon. Friend, Mr. Cobden, in the noble sentiments which he laid down, that every people has a right to choose and to establish its own Govern ment, and that they have a perfect right to have a bad Government if so they think fit.—(Hear, hear, and cheers. Therefore, if the Hungarians were struggling for a Government which we could not approve, still we should say that they had a right to theieindependence—(Cheers) —still we should sympathise with them when they draw their swords to defend themselves against foreign ag gressors.—(Loud and long continued cheers.) But their enemies would have you believe that the Hungarians de serve no sympathy because they are struggling to estab lish a red republic! That is one of the things which the enemies say. Another thing, quite the contrary, they say there—they try it both ways—if it won't do one, they betake themselves to another—the truth is that to which they have no regard—(Hear, hear)—the other is that the Government of Hungary is a Government car ried on only for the benefit of the aristocracy. — (Laughter and cheers.) I am here to deny, having studied the subject carefully, the truth of both those allegations.—(Cheers.) The Hungarians are not engaged in a struggle to establish a red republic, or anything of the sort.—Cheers.) They are not engaged even in en deavouring to establish a republic at all, although if they were it would be no reason—(The conclusion of the sentence was lost from the loud cheering.) What they are striving to obtain and to defend is, their old constitution, which they have had for the last 800 years —(Cheers)--and which is a constitution more like our own than any other that has ever been established—a constitution consisting of King, Lords, and Commons. That they have always had; they do not at present demand more, and they will not be satisfied with any thing less.—(Cheers.) As to the Government being one that is carried on for the benefit of the aristocracy, no thing can be more untrue.—(Hear.) It is true, as I have said, that there is in that country an hereditary aristocracy, a Chamber of Peers, and it is also true that formerly the right of suffrage was restored to those who are called nobles in that country.—(Hear, hear.) But the nobles in that country are wholly unlike what we understand by that word. Here that class was so large that it should rather be compared to the class of electors, and formerly in Hungary the number of electors was larger in proportion to the population of the country than the number in this country—in Eng land—previous to passing the Reform Bill.—(Cheers.) But the Hungarians have not remained satisfied with that Government; they have, like ourselves, required and demanded some reform, and they have substituted for the privilege of birth, which formerly entitled these hundreds of thousands of men to the vote—(Cheers) — they have established a property qualification like our selves—they have got their ten-pound householders and freeholders as we have—(Cheers)—they found that this Government, which, perhaps, in former times, although much better than many other Governments, was too aristocratical—they found, like ourselves, that they were not content to be governed by an oligarchy—(Cheers)--- and they reformed their Constitution, and they made it liberal as it is now—(Cheers)—they established freedom of the press under the noble Kossuth—(Bursts of ap plause and cheering, which lasted several minutes)— tlaey established the emancipation of the peasants, and they gave to every man throughout the land equal rights. —(Prolonged cheering.) Why should there be so much interest in this country, as I know there is iu favour of Hungary? I will tell you. I will give you a reason why; I will give you two reasons. Hungary, of all countries in the world, has been always the most ree markable for its attachment to religious liberty— (Cheers)—for one thing, and to free trade for the other. —(Continued cheering.) I come to you to ask for your sympathy for Hungary, with the words liberty of conscience and liberty of commerce.—(Loud cheers.) I will not enlarge upon the latter; I will not tell you, as I might, of the immense advantages—and perhaps, if the hour was not so late, it would not be improper in the midst of this great city, surrounded by prince.mer chants, who carry on the most extensive dealings in the world—l say it would not be improper to point out to you the enormous commercial ad vantages which would result to this country from the establishment of the independence of Hungary.— (Hear, hear, and cheers.) To establish Hungary as an independent free kingdom, in a short time England would carry on as large a trade with that country as it does now with the United States.—(Cheers.) But only think of the advantage of having such a country as that encouraging and maintaining every thing that is right and good, demanding and carrying on civil and religious liberty to a greater extent than it is in this country; because in this country we have not yet, I am sorry to say, complete religious liberty. —(Cheers.) We have toleration, but we have not the full religious liberty which we ought to have—(Loud cheers)—that no man, no matter what be his creed, should be excluded from any office or any privilege. But the Hungarians have that ; they know no difference between Protestant, or Catholic, or Jew, or any other form of religion, so far as privileges and rights are concerned ; and they are opposed to a Government which, of all go vernments that have been in the world, the Austrian Government, and particularly the house of Hapsburg, have always shown themselves the most ruthless, the most tyrannical, the most cruel enemies that ever ruled on the earth.—(Hear, hear.) Remember the bigot Charles V.; remember Philip the Second of Spain, with his Inquisition. These times are enough to band us all in an alliance with the Hungarians against that house, anti against that detestable Government.—eteheers.) A. Noble Friend of mine has very happily/spoken of a pre judice existing in this country against Austria, and very felicitously took up what fell in the House of Lords upon that subject. I will share in that prejudice, I know that that Government is detestable, and since opinions have been referred to in the House of Lords in favour of Austria, I cannot help referring to an opinion declared in former days in that House when there was more spirit of liberty—(Cheers) —when there was more attachment than there is now—and when the Whigs, whatever we may think of them at the present day— (Groans and hisses)—were defenders of all that was good and great.—(Cheers.) I cannot help referring to an opinion which lam fond of quoting, and which I have mentioned in the House of Commons, of the late Lord Holland, who said, in his place in the House of Lords, " All history proves that if ever anything mean, oppressive, and unjust was done in Europe, Austria was the party to do it."—(Hear, hear.) It was then taken up by Lord Liverpool, who endeavoured to controvert the position by civil remonstrance to induce him to re tract the expression. That nobleman, Lord Holland said, " I won't retract the expression; I repeat that Austria is of all Governments, and always was, the most mean, the most oppressive, and the moss et ei in the world."—(llear, hear.) Aye, and Lord Holland said that some ten years ago.—(Cheers,) That was before what has passed at Cracow — be t o re the blood y scene o f Gallicia—(Cheers)—when a price was paid:to miscreants to bring to the Government the beads of the leaders —before the butcheries that have been perpetrated by Austrian commanders in Italy, and before the flogging of a woman at Preshurg and at Vienna. Amply; is Lord Holland justified in his allegation u. this detestable G o vernment.—(Hear.) Sir, I rejoice to see such a meet ing as this here assembled in the cause of these noble Hungarians (Cheers) and against those constant enemies of mankind, the Austrian and the Russian Go vernments.—(Groans.) I well know that I have, in ad vocating the cause of the Hungarians, the sympathy of the whole country.—(Cheers.) I do not say that there may not be in high places—l do not say that in the House of Lords you may not find old Tories who have always been Tories, and who have grown old and grey in their enmity to the liberty of the people, who speak in favour of Austria.--(Cheers.) I do not tell you that there:is no apostate Liberal—(Laughter and cheers) — who, abandoning his own principle now, can do nothing but flatter the great and egg on despots in all their en deavours—who can admire nothing but what is despotic —I do not tell you that in those places and amongst that party, and even in the House of Commons, where where we had yesterday a Noble Lord, A w h h er o d c ee ain n, and to malign the Hungarians , and . todown, no doubt, to defend his uncle, Lord describe s .4h infamous Kos head of the Hungarianonfat:? a Shame," and signs of n the illustriou suth !"—(Loud cri es indignation.) I do not tell you that there are n ot such people to be found, but that feeling— yfur the a ug h l t l e u r n . ) g a r n u s • t — t is h universal o m u o amongst B is I ell t his I know, t the fashionable circles ! fwohhrtautninaa,treol and c alled (Loud " eel.- that there is sympathy for th e th in- rian people whereve r there is sympathy for the Eng lisha reople .—(Prolon g ed cheering.) How much I re joiced at the manner in which you responded to my friend Charles Taylor, when he p ronounced the glorious name of General Bern.—(Vehement cheers.) But a short time ago that gall ant h ero was inthiscountry, a poor and despis e d Polish refugee —ono ocls, Nh that vod wou body l whom a crtain person in the house of Lords, be distinguished as a chivalrous man—(Laughter)—fond of tournament—(R , newed laughter)—d e li g ht e d in stig matizing,--General Beni was here, a poor destitute re fugee ; he was in a state of the most extreme had health consequent upon an old wound ; he had to means of supporting himself ; hu was indebted solely for his sub sistence at that time to the Polish Association, which furnished him with a pittance, which now I am almost ashamed to remember, it was so malt, but it was all that we were able to afford him in a hospital of di, city, for he was unable to pay for medical assistance. At the a University Hospital ho received his medical treatmeprod an it. A bullet which he had had in his bod y t e gious number of years was extrac able an was hfor restored care to y small sum by our of the late Mr. Liston. That a ena v b e l r eyd to return to his own health, and furnished with Polish Association; he way an d thence to proceed to Hungary, c t o o u l n ea tr d y on , g a llant Hungarians to victory aid to raise his name to the summit of distinction and of fame. to --(Loud chord.) t G h (75 1 e l c g i 'rho friends of Austria are fond of I . —(Continued clic& r-. 1 _ rian9;who, like the, ~ 'at is dear to trta,‘....›, ) livei on the altar Pf... 1. leaththe foul 111241*:::1:. / I C h csiring.) lii:•u'dikVl.: ' o rouse you in fecouk - ,77: , ..?: t t o sattsitt d vw oisigy. of Ifni:mare' .--- i C are, gh . fetits to k itt! SI • independence, it is `"~.~ rd~~ THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, JULY 24, 1849.