The Sun. — London, England, 1841-02-03 00:00:00

EVENING 14MIT10,N. crust hear all the incidental matter that arose out o 1 those causes, and all the necessary motions referring to 'hem. He (Mr. Lynch) contended that he had made out a case for an a dditional Judge. There was a '—ey large arrear in the number of causes se awn before the Lord Chancellor. His Right Ho eriend stated that the present arrear in the Vic - - Chancellor's Court amounted to 455 causes ; but he dtd not take into consideration 100 other causes that stood over ; ho would be, therefore, more accurate if he had stated the number at 555. His Right Hen. Friend might also have told the House that there were causes now ;finding over two or three years in th. Nice-Chancelor's Court. The Right Hon Biroao.' gad himself proposed that two additional Judger should be appointed in the year 1830, when the arrears were not near so great as at present. His Right Hon. Friend admitted the present Judges could not do more work than they did at present, and yet it was proposed to impose more upon them. What other remedy then was there but to create new Judges ? The present want of judicial power occasioned the com promise of suits and their renewal._ It was said the arrears in the Court of Chancery were not so great as they were, but the Lord Chancellor would not he able to hear another cause until next Michaelmas term, and consequently the arrears would increase in the interim. There was a great arrear of motions in the Vice-Chan cellor's Court relative to railways, in consequence of which the Vice-Chancellor did not hear a cause for months together. In the time of Lord Hardwick there was but 400 causes and :370 petitions in agear, but now there were in arrear 2,700 petitions. Did the Hon. Gentleman mean that those two Judges whom he had proposed as assistants to the Lord Chan cellor were to give judgment in his absence ? He did not think his Right Hon. Friend had rightly stated Lord Langdale's proposition, and it appeared to him (Mr. Lynch) that until that plan of Lord Langdale'e was properly carried out, they could not make adequate provision for the equitable jurisdiction of the Court. It appeared to him further that the Lori Chancellor ought to go into the House of Lords, where, if the busi ness was properly conducted, there would ha a regular bar, and the appellate jurisdiction would be then pro perly attended to. These were some of the suggestions which he had thought it his duty to throw out to the House, and he would repeat, that let them reform the Appellate Court as they might, still the Bill of his Right Hon. Friend would be necessary. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL replied. As there appeared to be no opposition to the bringing . in of the 13111 on any side of the House, and as the objections taken were all to matters of detail, he should offer very tew remarks to the House. He would, however, ob serve that it was the unanimous opinion of all the law Losds, Chancellor, ex-Chancellors, and all, that there should be two new Judges. With regard to the mea• sure which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had 'stated he would bring in, he (the Attorney-Gencral) would offer no opposition to its introduction. Ile was willing that the House should see it, and no doubt the measure would receive such support as it was thought dcs7rving of'. Leave was then given to bricg in the Bill. Sir E. SUGDEN moved for and obtained leave to bring in a Bill for the better Adminifitiation of Justice ir) the ;louse of Lords, and the Judicial Committee of Ise Pr vy Council. RUM AND SUGAR. Mr. LABOUCHERE, in rising to bring this sub ,:: Mare the House, stated that it might be conve ,2nt to the Members that he should state at once ..cas not his intenCon on that occasion to ask for ey expression of opinion that would bind the House It, any future stage of the measure he intended to pro se. It had been stated to him, by persons is hose r-,.perty would be affected by the measure, that it. be fully < xplained to the House, and that the !tbstlnee of the resolution he intended to move should some days before the 110113 C lTfore it was caked upon ..•dopt it. He felt that such a cturse would be de -al,lc, and therefore willingly acceded to it. His in n,ion that night was only to mike a statement of the ()Ludt oa which he. was prep:it-A, oa the part of the t.:overt,ment, to recommend an alteration in the duties T•umn, the produce of an East India possession, and he )Icu!il concude by moving that the House do, on :,i , whiqy next, resolve itself into a Committee to “-sNer si much of the Act as rWted to the ,:y on ruts, the produce of any p, - -ssession the limits of the East l:r.dia Company's charter. Vhcry al the law at. present allows sugar to be i:n -d frem the East. s at a proportionate rate of cci . h the produce of tle same kin:l from the it was his object to propose—and he it just and reasonuble—that the East In , , s ..,bould be at iiiicrty to send into this country the . der produ::ts of the :czar cane upon the same terms aqunlity. He thcniglit this proposal w• so only just reasonable, nod wad be received so by the Housn. In the curse of the list Session, he had himself pre b•• teal a petition from .he Dacetors and Proprietors of e East India Cimpany and other pzzsons interested ~: our intercourse wiih the Eist Indies, praying for an dization of tho.;2 duties. Oa that occasion, he -..dsaid that although he was at the time unprepared to a decide:l opinion upon the question, he would take whole saij cot int ) his consideration. A Co:mnittee the Home of Lords had agreed to resolutions in .ich he concurred, with the exception of that one inch stated that the _West India Colonies were in a ate of transition, in colvcquence. of the abolition of renderif - g it nixessary that they should not be own all at once into a competition with other colonies, had not the same iliflhulties to encounter. Ile .auld not duty that the West Indies rcuired the sup- Hit of the rnotißT country, under the circumstances uhich these colonies had to contend ; but he must !,:cadre that in the measure which he now proposed he 1 , 1 no intention to give a stimulus to the products of Ea,t. Indies adversely to the colonies. He did not :nk that the market for ruin in this courdry would be •'•ettlitl by the proposed measure in a manner iojuricus cur West la( c donies, and he thought he Bald be Ale to lay before the House facts ameetcti with the case, which would .how how hiss (, ,s »nil futile were the appr.hensons entertained on suliiict. There was a tinitchal difference between t supp'y of ruin anti the supply of sugar in this coun ty at the prz'sent moin?nt. It was well known that supply of sugar now rect.ilved bo.h from the E tat 111,ist Indies 57,13 melt qu tte to the oriteary wants the British mat ket. .W 1) it wLre the c • ins-quene^s of Thy of the Wcst. linlies enjoy tl.e ale monopoly f..r rem as for sugar, but practically the sc was very tliff rent. (Au u n. Meraher intimated t.; dissent from tb.e propositauri.) "I'ke Iti4llt Honour- Glillentan a Itf that lie ti.ought it would v tun accuracy of stateatcut. The West idies were at present unable to send a sulli ' at supply of sugar to this country, nbile they re able to send a very considerably larger quantity of than the British market .required, and the cense 'ler, of course, was that the surplus was cripartcd to whiir countries. It followed from that the price of tutu was not fixed in tee English market—the price of it here was -govt.rned by its price abroad. Of course, ..sra could be bat one price for the 'surplus rum ex led and: that consumed in this country. The would at once see thit that was the case n he remintled them that sugar in bend varied ry much in price, nhile there was no such ,ereaces in rum in bond, because its price 1t -e...; sure to be known from its price in foreign mar -I;ete. He could state a fact on the subject to which he -was alluding, which he thought would leave no d )uht c'w the matter. In the course of last year 100,000 lons of rum had been purchased for the navy— :}.),ooo gallons from the East Indies, and 50,000 gal l. le from the West Indies, and in both cases they ob ti,,ed rum of the same quality at precisely the same price. Ho mentioned that ,to show that if they • eeealized the dut, there would be no fall in the East lodine rum, or any injury done to cur West Indian co _ leeies. He did rot think that the proposed measure s ould be' attended with any such effect, and be, • therefore, felt that they could not refuse their s,:eient to a resolution which, on general grounds, every • flier should aditait was one of sound policy. It was • true that if thensupply of rum from the West Indies were considerably inferior to what the English market required - , the measure would be attended with disad ‘, Int i ages to those colonies, as they would then of course I—,va a monopoly of the price of rum in the British e,erket. Bat that was cot the case, as he had already stated. He cared not, therefore, what was the great ' advantage of the duty to the West Indies, or what loss they would sustain if the law were altered. It might, ' however, be said that if that were the case—if the • measure would not be attended with any loss c,, the West Indies—it could not be followed any gain to the East Indies. He admitted the fordo of that argument. Ho admitted that on both ,ides the importance of the question had been greatly s L aggerated ; but at the same time, as generally hap ::-led with regard to those restriction?, that inconve , erne which they caused on the one side was greater *um the gain which they gave on the other.—(Hear,l ::e a r,) It was true that there was one case in which the law at present operated unfavourably to the East ledies, and that was in the case of the finer kinds of which were purchased up in this country, and of which the West Indies at present enjoyed a monopoly. As that, however, was but an itera of the trade, he did not think the repeal of the enactment would produce any very injurious consequences to West Indian interests. He would really be glad to hear from Hon. Gentlemen opposed to him some reasonable proof that the ch ange which he sought for would be so injurious as some seemed to imagine. He thought that the House should require that proof would be given—that there ought to be something more than mere apprehensions —something more that allegations, to show that they would deeply injure oneportion of their colonies, before they refused to sanction a measure which was one of • teidoubted justice and fairness to the West Indies. No one who bad paid any attention to the evidence which had been taken before both Houses of Parliament could fail to be struck with the feeling with which this qeestion had been discussed by both sides, more especially with the manner in which the sub ject laid been urged by those connected with '.lie East Indies. It had been represented that a strong feeling of public opinion was growing up in the East Indies, not only among the English inhabitants but also among the netive population ; that in our coma mercial regulations we went out of cur way to inflict measures injurious and disadvantageous to India ; and when he spoke of public opinion among the native pa ulation, he would be borne out in stating that there was growing up among the native population an increased Feeling of intelligence, which enabled them to eoeipre hend and discus's questions of this nature. He there fere thought they were bound to see that there was some good and solid reason for refusing them a boon of this kind, which had been urged so strongly by those who represented their interest in this country—he meant the Board of Directors. He would now read to the House a statement of figures which would put them in possession of the present state of the rum trade in India, and by that statement it would appear that he was fully borne out in saying that at the present moment there was snore rum brought from the West India co lonies than could be consumed in this country ; conse quently, that a large quantity of it was exported to foreign countries, were it met with East India rum ; and if the West Indians, in selling rum to the Germans, were able to compete with East India rum, he could not see why they should not be able to do the same in England.—(Hear, hear.) The paper he held in his hand was a statement of the quantities of rum imported into the United Kingdom, distinguishing that from the British West Indies ; that on which duty had been paid, and that which had been re-exported, from the years 1833 to 1839, both inclusive. From this state ment it appeared that the quantity of rum imported into the United Kingdom, from ,all places, during the year 1833, amounted to 5,146,000 gallons ; the quantity imported from the British West Indies, during that year, was 5,109,000 gallons ; the quantity on which duty was paid was 3,49,000 galloes ; there was a small quantity used as ships' stores, and the qe an tity re-exported was 1,834,000 gallons. In the year 1834, the total quantity imported from all places was 5,158,000 gal;ons, from the British West Indies 5,112,000 gallons, the quantity on which duty had been paid was 3,345,000 gallons, and the quantity re-export ed was 1,655,000. He would not trouble the House by going through the details of the intermediate years, but he would read the statement of the last year in the account, 1839. In the year 1839, the quantity of rum imported into the United Kingdom from all places amounted to 5,477,000 gallons, from the British West Indies 4,021,000 gallons, the quantity on which duty was paid was 2,830,000 gallons, and the quantity re-ex ported was 1,155,000 gallons. In addition to the account of rum exported in 1839, he should state also that there had been taken up for the use of the navy, ships' stores, &0., of West India rum G 34,000 gallons, and of East India rum 87,000 gallons. He would put it to the House whether this was not proof sufficient that a much larger quantity of rum was imported front the West Indies than could be consumed in the English market ; that it was obliged to be exported to a third market, principally to the north of Germany, where it met with rum from the East Indies, Cuba, and Brazils, with which it was able to compete and find a market. Now it was too obvious for him to waste their time by attempting to prove further, as long as this surplus existed, the price in the English market must be governed in a great degree by the price in the third market. If these figures were correct., he was at a loss to understand on what foundation the ap prehension expressed by the West India interest could rest, that it an equalization of the duties on East and West India rum were to take place, they themselves would suffer great loss, while the state of the rum market would be altogether altered. He now came to that part of the subject which had excited the apprehensions of many who were ready to admit, that if they could be certain that the rum imported from the East Indies would be really rum, the WeA Indians would have no right to complain ; but they were ap prehensive, that under the came of rum, a cheap spirit, distilled from rice, flavoured with rum, would be im ported, to the great detriment, not only of the West India colonists, but also of the English distillers; and some of the gentlemen representing the West India interest, but, he was Lappy to say, however, without any great success, had endeavoured to enlist the East India distiliers in opposition to this measure. New he thought that if any gentleman looked atten tively to this question he would at once perceive that a znere idle bugbear had never been set up than this attempt. In the first place, the measure he intended proposing did not refer to all spirit but exclusively to rum, the produce of the sugar can:, and if the House should approve of his resolution, he should take care that in the Bill founded on it a provision should be introduced that no rum should be admitted into this errantry except upon a rea Elias certificate of the Rseenue officers in the East Indies.—(Hear, hear.) It was true the ()leen had no Revenue establishment in tire East Indies, but on ccnsubir g the Board of Caie. torus on the subject, he was authorised to say, by the Chairman of that Illard, that he should have as muds coafil•nee in a certificate brought to the Customs ri this country from the ofII!or of the East India Com pany, As he would in the Custom-house establishment of her Majesty. He thought, therefore, unless gentlemen were prepared to say that a certificate was Worth nothing, he should, by hating that certifizete, put an - - effectual stop to the introduction of rice spirits. should also observe that this spirit would have to pay .a; 9s. duty, and it was not very likely that the distillers. and merchants w,sulel be greatly injured by suchi spirits bsing brought to this country.— (Heah, hear.) He bad not received any representation train the ditil.ing interests of the country, that there we the least fear of that happening which bad been supposed, namely, the introduction of cheap spirits to the detriment of the West Indies. As he understood it was not intended to discuss the present question on the other side of the House that night, he did not think it would be necessary to go further ; all lie was anxious to do was to state the general grounds on which he introduced the sul),Pct. His firm convi'ation was that, unless it could be shown that they were inflicting great iejery on the West Indies. which had riot been proved, there could be no objection to the measure. 11;: could assure the House that it he thought he was inflicting injury, he should be as anxious not to iatro (lnce the measure, as he was now to introduce, it. There was now, lie was honey to say, a feeling arising la tire population of the East ladies which, if thi s coun try cultieated, would be one of the strongest lirk , of concretion between them and tint, country, but winch, if despised, would be attended with the worst effscts. He was anxious that they should show that country that wherever inequalities existed it was their pleasure and de:ieht to redress them. He eras sure the House would not so far desert its duty as to suppose that it was not brand to consider the interests of the East Indies as much as any other part of the country. He should be sorry to see the House twin a deaf car to the proposal which, without doing injury to the West Indies, would confer great benefits on the East ledies.--. ( Hear, hear, hear.) The duty on spices and silks required revision, but lie would not express any opinion upon that now ; but there was one subject upon which he would just state the opinion of the Government. Ho alluded to the trade between the Eastern Colonies of Ce3lon and Australia. That trade had been greatly injured by diserimin sting duties. A Committee of the House of Lords had recommended that those duties should be eciallised, and he must say that in that opi nion he cordially concurred, for it was not to be tole rated th It the trade between the East Indies and those countries should be put a stop to by such duties. Was it not a measure of common justice and of obvious good policy, cs regarded Ceylon, Australia, and the Rot Indies, that this state of things should undergo an alteration ? He was happy to state that it was in con templation, by an Order in Council, to put the duties upon Indian produce and manufactures upon a more equal footing. He would not trouble the House with any further remarks on that occasion. He had pledged himself to give the subject his attentive consideration ; and having done his best to redeem that pledge, he would ' now propose that on Monday next the House should go into Committee on that part of the Act of Parliament relating to the duties on rum and sugar. Mr. EWART said he would not go into this sub ject at any length, partly because his Right- Honourable Friend had deprecated discussion on that occasion, and partly because there was a question pending before the House that evening which might possibly disin cline many Hon. Members from giving that attention to a commercial subject, which it was so well qualified to command. But he must express his regret at the mode of supporting his motion which had been adopted by the Honourable Gentleman. He thought it quite unnecessary upon u measure founded on the strictest justice to argue the question as one which might possibly affect the West Indian body, or weaken a monopoly which had been so long maintained.—(Hear, hear.) The question was one of justice ; it was not to be narrowed and circumscribed into a West Indian question, or a question of any monopoly whatever. He also regretted that the Hon. Gentleman had not made his motion more extensive, and taken in a gre ater range of commerce. The Report to which he had alluded opened to him a wider field than the one over which he had expatiated. There was the question of extending the commerce in sugar, which now came almost exclusively from Bengal ; there was the question of allowing produce grown in many of our East Indian possessions to be placed on the same level with Bengal. Mysore, too, which ought to be placed upon the same footing. Those questions' might all have been referred to. He would, however, reserve any further observations which he might have to make upon this subject, until the, second reading of the Bill. For the present he would content himself with .deprecating the course of narrowing this into a mere West Indian question, and entreating the House, when the subject came again before them, to make the measure of relief as large and comprehensive as the po c r a t s a e lic r e e , q n u o ir t ed oly required. The subject was one of a vast tar,, to the East Indies, but to Great Britain herself, and to the commerce which bound the two countries together. Mr. GOULBURN said he bad been very much surprised at the motion then before the House, and, considering everything w hi c h h a d occur r ed, the pub lishcd Report of the House of Lords, which was laid 1 I . upon the tahle of the House last Session, and the cir- i 1 eumstance that, from the Committee of the House of i 1 Commons which contained members of the Govern- i merit, there had not proceeded a single syllable in de- rogation of the opinion of that Committee of the House of Lords, he thought it was impossible for the House to accede to the proposition before it. Ile (Mr. Goulburn) thought it would be highly improper for the House to embark in a discussion so large and irepor tent in the absence of complete and full information. He would not express any decided opinion at present, but he should be prepared to state his opinion on some future occasion. Mr. HUME said that if the Right Honourable Gentleman was surprised at what had been brought forward he was taken by surprise, not because the pro position was so extensive and vast but because it was so trifling.—( Hear, hear.) As far as it went he per fectly accorded with the measure, but it was only one act of justice when many were required.—( Hear, hear.) Not only the interests of India but the best resources of England had been injured by the restrictions vshich had been suffered to remain so long upon commerce. The vast powers of India to promote commerce, and to increase wealth, we by our legislation had actually limited and prevented. India had not had fair play ; on the contrary she had been cramped and confined in the exercise of those ample powers which she naturally possessed for the extension of her commerce. The reve nue of India had consequently suffered toso great a degree that she was scarcely able to meet her increased expen diture. If England had been benefited, it might be some excuse for this state of things ; but England had herself been a loser by these restrictions. He had therefore expected that the Hon. Gentleman would have brought forward a much more extensive measure than was before the House. The Right Hon. Gentleman would find as much opposition to this paltry and trifling amendment as if he had brought the whole question be fore the House. The time was come when all leeisla lation in relation to our commerce must be reconsidered. He would only at present enter his protest against this paltry way of dealing with the subject, and be hoped that the Government would think it right to adopt a larger measure, more suitable to the requirements of the country and to the present state of India. Mr. HOGG wished to say one or two words with regard to the Committee referred to by the Honourable Member for Cambridge. That Committee was per verted into a regular West Indian Committee.— (Hear, hear.) There was no Report made. When he proposed that they should make a Report, he was met by the objection that they had not heard half the evi dence that could be adduced. It was said that witnesses could be brought from almost every island in the West In dies, and that it would be useless in the absence of such evi dence to make a Report. With regard to the measure proposed, as far as he (Mr. Hogg) was acquainted with the feelings of those connected with the East Indies, he could safely say that it would be hailed with plea sure and received with the deepest gratitude. A more extended measure might, and he hoped soon would, be introduced into that House ; but the great and crying evil in India was the question of rum ; and he believed that the particular body with which he was connected, and the East Indian interests at large, would hail with great satisfaction the measure which had been proposed. Sir JOHN HOBHOUSE said be hoped that the Honourable Gentlemen who thought the measure did no go far enough, would consider the formidable opposition with which the Government had to con tend, and not refrain from giving their support to what was proposed because it did not go far enough. The Government had shown what their disposition was by their determination to make an Order in Council '.Pith respect to Ceylon and Australia ; and he trusted to it Hon. Gentlemen would give them credit for their into lions —(Hear, hear.) He hoped that these gees-' :ions would crc long be considered, not with reference to any particular body, but to the . interests of the whole ernnirc.—(Hear.) Mr. 0 nONNELL would not infringe the agree ment whist. seemed to have been come to by the House, not to discuss this measure at length on that occasion ; but tt. begged to say that on Monday next he would call the ; ttention of the House to the neces sity of preventing ommerce in rum slave-roam:et% and to the violation o: that part of the Act which re lated to the mitigation of slavery in the East lndies. Dr. LUSHINGTON slid he quite agreed with the Hon. Member for Dublin as to the absolute necessity of exclu ling from the cqueli.sation of duty any produce which might be the pro lace of slave labour. Not only did he concur in that opinion, but he must say that he went further ; because, attached as he was to the great prin ciples of the motion of his Right Hon. Friend the Pre• sideut o' the Board of Trade, yet he thought they could not, either with justice to the West Indies, or -.- with due regard to the great principles laid down in that : House from time to time, allow the East Indian produce . to be placed'upon the same footing with the produce of iatlie• WeatAnslies, unless the whole system of slavery - 11:exIstingin the Est Indies were altogether extinguished. —( Hear; hr.) It was not extinguished—it was not :extirpated— it continued to flourish, not only as a do. mutts system of slavery, but is y the import of slaves up to that very hour. In 1833 his Noble Friend Lord o Giesie'g,.tahen he brought in the RH respecting the ~ Company's Charter, introduced a clause putting an end . to all Slaiscey in the East Indies, and that clause passed ...,tNr. iteoStivlzosuiite.e.t.- then believed, hastiyor without determined a s igle upon • 'most eminent men connected with the subject were rconsulted, and the Noble Lord was informed that it 'would be perfectly - safe, therefore the clause was car ied. It was true that the Lords threw it out, but they did not do so upon principle, they wanted to have further evidence on the subject. It was his intention to ask the Right Honourable President of the Board of Control to produce all the papers on the subject in order to know what steps the Company had taken to carry out the intentions of that House. or whether they had done anything after obtaining a full knowledge of the proceedings of that House. He thought the House would never consent to allow, in the face of all its most solemn declarations ; upon the subject of slavery—it never would allow those . principles to be set at nought in our Eastern dominions. Ile would say put the Est Indies on the same footing with the Weet Indies in teaspect to slavery—let slavery . bo extirpated, and he would go fatalist than his Itght. Hon Friend, and say, give jostice to the East Indies not oaly in the articles of sugar end of rum, but in evsry other production. He would ask those papers of his Right lion. Friend, and on them he would be prepared to ground a motion for the tctal .abolition of slavery. Mr. BROCKit URST said British interests li.a, not been alluded to either in the Report of the Lords' Committee or in the discussion that night, but he trusted 1 i they would be taken care of as well as those of the , people of the East Indies. The motion was then agreed to—the Committee to sit on Monday. REGISTRATION (IRELAND). Lord STANLEY rose for the purpose of moving for leave to bring in a Bill for amending the Law for the Registration of Voters in Ireland. He was relieved from trespassing on the House at any length, because the subject was not only not new, but even too fa miliar to those whom he had the honour to address ; also he could not believe that the House would re. fuse in the present Session permission to bring in a Bill which he had been allowed to do last year with out difficulty or ditision, and one, the second reading of which he had obtained by a majority, and on which he was almost warranted in saying, but for the difficulticiand unpr cedented delays which had bean thrown in its way, would now have been the law of the laud.—(Cheers.) He would only shortly remind the House of the main provisicns which he had proposed for the purpose of re medying those abuses which were admitted to exist by all parties, for it had been admitted on all hands there was an universal and unanimous conviction th it the abuses which had been stated over and over again as arising out of that system of registration now existing, was so unbearable as to render legislation upon the sub ject absolutely necessary.—(Hear, hear.) The first point he proposed to effect by the Bill, which obtained such universal assent last Session, was to abolish alto gether the system of certificates in regard to the right of voting ; and he proposed that, because he thought that that system was the main spring and source of the mischief. In lieu of that system he wished to introduce no new and untried plan ; his object was to introduce the English system into Ireland, by which a register made up by certain specific public offi cers would be formed, and that that should give, with out further dispute and cavil, the right of voting to all who were upon such register. He proposed also to transfer another portion of the English system to Ire land, namely, that the claimant in Ireland should give a public notice of the same length of time, and with an equal degree of publicity, as the claimant in England was obliged to give, so that all persons intending to dispute the claim mi g ht h a ve the same public opportunity of contesting such claim. So also he wished, as in England, that the registration should not be carried on in the Quarter Sessions, but be considered as an object of primary importance. He therefore proposed that the registration should be an nual. He did not propose to alter the Judge, but that the Assistant Barrister should make the registration specific business at a separate circuit ; therefo r e, no t altering the authority, but changing the time and sav ing time, by including in the circuits several towns where his Courts should be held, for the purpose of considering any objections that might be made to a claimant nearer his own home than the assize town. But there was another portion of his Bill to which much cavil had been made. Without casting any imputations upon the A ss itnnt Barristers, he thought it-was impossible that th e w h o l e registration—that the rejection or admission of a claim should rest wholly up on one individual. Such was the law at present, and what was the remedy which was opened to aggrieved parties ? They had none but th e most inconvenient, expens ive, and uncertain remedy of an appeal to a Committee of the Houieof - -Commeris", upon a petition respecting a contested election. - Now, every side of the House—all parties agreed—that it was SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDNY, FEBRUARY 3,-1841. extremely desirable that an end should be put to this most vexatious system. But if that system were with drawn, some substitute must be found of a more impartial, more learned, and more certain na ture, ; that was universally acknowledged,—( Hear.) In many which he had seen upon this sub ject, productions of the various members of the Government, he had found a provision, that upon any rejection of a claim the party sggrieved should have a right to go before the Jadge of Assize in order to cb- Lain redress. When this matter was discussed in the course of last Session, many arguments had been thrown out to which he was not insensible, suggesting that it the enactments of his B:11 were carried the appeals to the Judge would be numerous and common. He had anxiously tried to find a course which would be equally free from such an objection, and yet give the desired effect, but his search had been in vain, nor bad he yet heard from any quarter even a suggestion for any Court to be substituted for the Judge of Assize, which would be free from the inconveniences which were alleged against the present system. He proposed, therefore, that the claimant and the objector should have a mutual appeal to the Judge of Assize, but undoubtedly he was anxious to give some protec tion against frivolous and vexatious appeal, and he had proposed in his Bill that the Judge of Assize should have the power to give limited costs in any case of a frivolous appeal or objection. Great objections were taken last session to the power given to the Judge of Assize to award costs against a person claiming the franchise, and having been placed upon the register by the Assistant Barrister, but he could not see any good reason why both parties should not be put on the same footing, in order that not only th e c l a i man t b u t the public might be rescued from being swamped by fictitious votes ; and if any costs were to be given at all, they ought to be given equally and fairly. Last Session, however, he was very much str uc k by one point which had been urged, viz. that the persons who were, by the sanction of the Assistant Barrister, placed upon the register, ought not to be visited with costs. Now that point had not escaped his attention ; his an swer was, whereas the costs were only to be given in frivolous and vexatious cases, no Judge would give costs against any party coming forward with the positive fact of the decision of a Judge in his favour.—(A laugh.) However, that there might be no difficulty on this point ; he was perfectly prepared to insert a provision that the party, be he who he might, who came forward with the decision of the Judge of the Court below in his favour, should not be visited with costs in a higher Court. He believed the provision unnecessary, but if it removed a difficulty or was considered to remove any hardship, or provided against any inconvenience, he was most anxious that it should be adopted. They did not now stand upon the same foot ing as last year, because ho must call their attention to a Society containing the names of a great number of noblemen and gentlemen for whom he entertained great respect, and for whom he felt a high personal esteem and friendship—a Society which included in its numbers the names of the Earl of Charlemont, the Earl of Gosford, the Noble Lord the mover of the address to her Majesty on the first day of the session, Lord Headfort, Mr. Sharman Crawford, and many other names of distinction—a Society calling itself the Liberal Association cf Ulster, and which had been formed for the express purpose of entering into the details, and sifting to the very bottom the registra tion system, in order to make out a ground for the rejection of his Bill a Society consisting of Members professing to be warm and cordial sup. porters of her Majesty's Government, while they at the same time deprecated the repeal agitation in Ire land. He entertained great; respect for the Society, and he would speak of them with that respect, even when he differed from them. Surely, then, he might be allowed fairly to claim them as coadjutors, in what he considered to be a good. work, when they agreed with him.—(Hear, hear.) They were in favour of an Ex tension of the, Suffrage, Vote by Ballot, and of short ening the duration.of Parliaments ; therefore, when he agreed in their opinions, or rather when they agreed with him, he could not be charged with illiberality if he called their opinions to his aid.—( Hear, hear.) He was anxious to show that upon all the leading prin ciples of the Bill, he had the sanction and concurrence of this Liberal Association of Uiatcr. They thought the certificate system ought to be abolished—that was a principle of his Bill. He wanted a register to be made by the assistant-barrister, upon a due notice given by the claimant, and that he should appear person illy or by agent to substantiate his right—their avowed princi ple were the same. There was no part of his Bill upon which he met with so much abuse as upon that point, giving the double appeal to the Judge. He would read one or two extracts from a Report of the•Suh- Committee, and approved of by a General Committee, which was presided over by the Earlof f wherein they recognised the very identical principle. The Noble Lord here proceeded to real extracts from the Report of the Committee of the Ulster Associa tion, on the registration of voters, wherein they refused to approve of the English system, because it gave no means of redress either to the claimant or to the objec tor against an erroneous decision of the registering bar rister, except with reference to a Committee of the House of Commons, or of the Irish system, because it confined the right of appeal to the claimant.—(Hear, hear, from the Opposition.) The Report went on to state that the Committee recommended that the right of appeal on all points of law for final decision should be extended both to the claimant and objector, and that a Court of Appeal should be constituted, be fore which the claimant should lieve such points de cided. There, continued the Noble Lord, were three of the main provisions of his Bill,—that it was desirable to avoid a reference to a Committee of the House of Com along. Such reference to a Committee of the House of Commons was unavoidable, unless an appeal tribunal were constituted ; and if they did constitute an appeal tribunal, the appeal should lie both ways—to the clamant and to the objector. Under the system, as it at present existed in Ireland, the appeel was unsatisfactory, and the English system was unsatisfactory, because the appeal existed neither for one party nor the other. With respect to the appeal being made the subject matter of costs, the plan he proposed was framed with a view to avoid a reference to a tribunal constituted like a Committee of the Iloie,e of Commons. In that he concurred with the Liberal Association of Ulster. Now, what were the points on which he d:Ered with that Associa tion ? The matters upon which they differed were not of fereat importance—they were abut to be narrowed to a single point*. H would show to the House that the points upon which they differed were not such as to throw, with the semblance of justice, the charge upon him of seeking to destroy the franchise, while he professed an in tention to amend the law of registration,—(lieu, hear.) The first of these points was, whether the registration should be auntie!, as in England, or quarterly, as in Ire. lend. He confessed that he had no hesitation whatever on that point. He confessed that he entertained a strong opinion, that if they meant to snake the r eg ister a decisive document, they could not hesitate about making the regis tration annual, as it wasin England._(Cheers from the Oppositian.) lie had next to point out to the House that questions were liket y to arise upon these matters which he hoped would be discussed with calmness. lle stood there then as the representative, not of his own op i n i ons mere ly, but as the representative of the recorded opinions of the House of Commons. It had been decided last session in that House that the annual registry was preferable to the quarterly.—(Cheers from the Opposition.) As regarded the forms of notices a great deal bad been said: Ho had carefully considered that subject; he had looked over the forms of notices, and he had endeavoured to simplify those fo-ms. lie would require certain particulars to be proved, and upon the proof of those points should rest the right to be registered, and upon the failure of proof, the removal from the registtr. What were the costs as pro posed by the Ulster Association ? It was proposed tha: although costs should be given in favour of the party who bad proved his claim to the franchise in the event ef the objections raised against his claim being proved to be frivolous and vexatious. Yet in the case of an indivi dual raising objections, of whatever kind, and however Kell-founded, and being unable to substantiate those objec tions, it was proposed by the Ulster Association, that in all cases of that kind the public magistrates should impose a penalty ; on the other hand, however the frivolous claim might be repeated twenty times over and over, and might be objected to one session after another in succession, and at the end of each period come forward again and again. But however frivolous and absolutely ridiculous that system was in the one case, yet no costs were to be imposed, and the claimant would feel perfectly secure that such would be the case ; but the objector I,iastsoe ofobjection, be s add how ever-well witho costs, if ho failed to substantiate his ca ever-well founded it might be. Now, he could not su p.. peso that was fair and impartial justice. He would pro pose in the one case, that if it was the opinion of the p• eliding Judge that the • objection was frivolous, co s t s should be given, but not exceeding M ., and in the other case, not exceeding the amount of exp enses to which the opposite party was put. As that was an important point, andt the es courseit w a of s taheploaisnt Session , point that hadanbdeeunproainswedhiicnhdaisdeiuvaissiioonn in had taken place, he wished to call the attention of the House to it, more particularly as he w as extremel y anxio us with regard to it, to see how far he would be enabled to meet the views and wishes of the House. The Right Honourable Gentleman, the Solicitor-General for Ireland, had moved for the insertion of certain words into the clause, havecla . rc d t h ethat rightafter .o f uld de the Ist November no perso w it hi w ch o voting for places in Ireland, e xcept Dublin, unlessregis tered according to that Act; that was to . say, that all . per. sons having a right to vote, and bolding lista certificate should not be called on to substantiate their claims, but which entitled them to be placed . on the of voters, should be liable to objections made by, any persons coining forward to question their right to vote. The Attorney- General wished the introduction of the words for the pro tection of parties holding certificates, but he (Lord Stan ley) was not sure whether it was his (the Attorney-Ge neral's) intention to carry that protection further, and ex tend it to any persons who should a fterwards get on the re gister,: The words proposed to be introduced into the clause to which he referred were, " That after the Ist of Decem bet., on. the making of the registry f or an y county, :city, ; borough, &c., every person whose name shall be upon the register when so nkde - shall'be r etained on it , and have his right to vote continued according to the present law, un less he lose hi s ' qua lification, or die, or unless th e registry be effected by fraudulent means." Such was the amend. in ent - proposed to..be introduced by. the Sohoitor,General. As on the one . lxind he (Lord .Stanley) came forward to support the views entertained by the msjority of tlit-House, views in which he was supported by a division, he was ready, as far as a sense of his duty would permit, to bow to the sense of the House as expressed by a large majority equally where it concurred with, as where it was opposed to, his own sentiments ; so, on the other, he could not agree to that amendment if he understood it aright. Ile did not know whether it was the intention of the Attorney-General to apply the provisions to persons who had obtained certificates by which, according to the present law, they were entitled to vete, or whether it was his intrusion to say that no party should be placed on the registry unless lie were able to show that his claim was established without being subject to any imputation of fraud, He admitted that in the present arrangement per sons were subject to re-examination, and in such ease the right to continue on the registry was eiven to them, unless they were rejected ; but the Right lion. Gentleman meant to go a step further, and say that no trail once placed on the registry should be afterwards liable to any objection for any point which might have been urged against him at the period when he first put forward his claim. To that extent he ( Lord Stanley) could not agree with the Right lion. Gentleman, for the certain result would be a multiplicity of fraudulent voters if those parties who once got oe the registry were left there for ever without having their right at any time questioned. The evils of Lhe present system would be aggravated by that means, because the privilege of voting would thus last for the natural term of a man's life, and that not because he proved that he had pos sessed the right to vote, nor because the objector had not proved that he did not possess that right, but because in answer to the objector, he might say, "Truly I do not possess the right of voting, but you have been unable to prove that. If you raised this question when I was first put on the registry, I would not have sum ceede t in establishing my claim, but now you have missed sour opportunity, and I am enabled to vote."—(Cheers from the Opposition.) That was not an extreme case— it was a case which be ( Lord Stanley) knew to have occurred in Scotland, where that very system does prevail, and where instances could be produced of parties at the present moment being on the registry in several counties without having a foot of land in these counties. Those parties did not possess any land, but be cause their names were once on the registry, no change of circumstances could remove them —( Opposition cheers. It was well known to every gentleman in England, Scot land, and Ireland, that the registries were not very closely watched in some counties, and that many persons at con tested elections were found to be on the registry, who.had no right whatever to be there, and yet the collective wis dom of that House was called upon to decide that, because the voters had once get on the lists, they should continue on them. He (Lord Stanley) proposed to give this pro tection to a voter who was placed on the registry, that on the registry he should remain for life, unless a party came forward and substantiated against him a prima facie case of non-qualification. The party attempting to bi ing for. ward such a case, and not establishing it, was to be subject, at the discretion of the Barrister, to costs. Ho (Lord Stanley) thought it was right that the voter should have that protection, and he could trot depart from that prin ciple so far as to carry the amount of protection to as ab solute prohibition against any inquiry respecting a party placed on the registry. But he had said before he was willing to bow to the decision of the House as taken upon the motion ms.dc by the Solicitor-General on a Report of his, made of the cases of those persons who, up to the present time, had acquired a right to vote. He (Lord Stanley) proposed that those parties having certificates should remain on the registry, and that after the expiration of those certificates they should come forward as fresh claimants in the same manner as any other person. He hoped he could show the House that the grounds which had been taken as an objection to his Bill were narrowed to the notices that should be given, to the forms of claims which should be signed, and to the question whether the registration should be annual or quarterly. The House had already decided in favour of the annual registration. Whether the voter should tee so far protected as that the objector who might bring a strong prima facie case against him, and who should fail in establishing it, should be sub ject to costs, was a point to be decided by the House. An other point which he wished to refer to was the notice of objection which he (Lord Stanley) proposed, and which was conformable to the English system. The objector had merely to say, " I object to your name being on the register." The words were copied from the English Bill. He did not think he was thus pro- Dosing anything grievous. Ile did not think that it was an unfair proposition that when the objector sought to remove a person's name from the registry, he should give notice 01 the objet tion which ho meant to raise, Ile ( Lord Stanley) remembered that Mr. Justice Perrin, then Mr. Sergeant Perrin, proposed that a double appeal should be given to the Judge of Assize. There was another power to which he thought it necessary to refer, not because it was its his (Lord Stanley's) Bill, but because he under stood that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman (the Member for Dublin) had said that he would oppose the introduction of that Bill, pro-sided it contained no provision for de fining the franchise. He (Lord Stanley) understood that before he came down to the House that Henour ahl. Gentleman had withdrawn his motion, ned he stated that he would move an adjousument. He (Lord Stanley) o istied to state to the House that it was not his intention to introduce isto the Bill any clause to define the Pasha rneotary franchise in Ireland. Ile stated last year to the House that he was ye.Cte aware of the inconvenience doss would arise front any doubt being thrown on the franchise. Ile then also stated that he was fully aware of the diffi culties which he would have to encounter were he to mix up the question of the franchise with the laws affecting the regigratien, and upon the fullest cunsiderstion which he had given to that question he came to the determination that if he wished to carry his Bill it was indispensable that he should separate these two questions, and that course was in the last Session sanctioned by the Government them selves, who introduced not one WI! for the registry and fran chise, but one Bill, as his, for the case of registration, and reserved the franchise for discussion in a separate Bill. lie hal not only the high authority. of Ministers on that sub ject, but also the authority of the House itself; because the question of mixing up the registry and the franchise was discussed arid decided in the House of Commons during the course of the last Session. The motion had been made by the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin, and the House had concurred in his (Lord Stanley's) view of the ease ; her Majesty's Ministers, the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies, and the Noble Lord the Secretary for Ireland, with the Attorney- General and many of her Majesty's Government, voting in the minority, had approved of the question b,ing kept separate, and the 'tankers, on the division, were 162 and 311, the latter being the number of those who thought it inexpedient that these two quest:ons should be united together. lie was vary sensible of the great in convenience arising from the difference of cpinion enter tnieed by the Judges on the question of the franchise. lis regretted that difference, but those who differed from the inijority on the Bench were, he had no doubt, actuated by conscientious moths, s. lie (Lord Stanley) ;Nos curs vinced that in the present state of the House and of parties, if he wished to introduce a clause which would absolutely debar him of the smssibility of passing that or any such Bill in the present Session of Parliament, he had only to introduce a clause sesklng- to d: fine the franchise in the sense in which he took it. He as as even certain that Gentlemen on the other side of the House would fled it equally impracticable to introduce a Bill defining the franchise in any other sense than that in which it bad been hitherto understood.— ( Hear, hear.) He confessed he would flinch from tho task. It would so complicate the measure he was about to intro duce, render so intricate that which was sufficiently dif ficult in itself, that that Session would pass over like the last, and be a mere efflux of time, and the undeniable abuses of the present system would continue one year more, with merely the prospect of the revival of the pre sent discussion. He would, therefore, adhere to the de termination that he had come to last year, nut to insert any clause of that nature. He would keep the question separate. He was quite willing and ready to discuss all the provisions of that Bill (if he would obtain leave to introduce it) with all respect to the arguments which might be brought forward on either side, and to those who might seek to controvert it by argument, and ready also to bow to the decision of the House if adverse to him. Lord MORPETH said his Noble Friend could not withstand the temptation, although the Government had given notice of its intention.—( Hear, hear, from elm O'Connell; followed by ironical cheers, and laughter from the Tory benches.) Although her Majesty's Government had given notice in the very first week of the open ing Session to bring forward a Bill on the subject, his Noble Friend had shown himself so (murmured of that subject, and so gratified with his reception and his progress during the course of the last Session—( Ministerial cheers) —with the several majorities be had obtained, and with the carrying of twelve clauses in the course of four months —(Cheers and laughter)—that he had shown himself determined not to be forestalled, and would have the plea sure of having the first word on the subject. He was not at all disposed to dispute that priority, and he was not will ing, alter the very temperate and moderate manner in which his Noble Friend had brought forward the subject— (" Hear, hear," from the Tory benches)—he was not willing to fail in courtesy with his Noble Friend any more than to any other Honourable Member, because certainly in the course of lust Session his Noble Friend had oh taiued very important success and overwhelming plaudits, and be was not therefore disposed to offer any opposition to his motion for leave to bring in the Bill—( Hear, hear) --not doubting that the Noble Lord, ar,d those who sup ported him, would extend the same accommodation to him (Lord Morpeth) when he moved for leave to bring in the measure of the Government, —(" Hear, hear," from the Opposition benches.) Having thus stated the course he intended to pursue, and considering that on that occasion be should have a fall opportunity of explaining the views d Government on the subject of the registration of voters in Ireland, he did not feel himself called on to make any lengthened observations on the subject.—(Hear, hear.) There were only two things he should state, for the sake of obviating any misappre hension. From the statements of the Noble Lord be col lected, that although he admitted of some slight modifi cations, yet that the main principles and provisions of the Bill remained unaltered; that he still retained the annual revision even upon the points that might be decided once a year ; and that upon points which had been annually decided the voters were liable to be annually called up s that he still retained the appeal both ways to the Judge of Assize against as well as in favour of the franchise ; and the Noble Lord fortified himself with a consistency, opinion in these particulars with the Ulster Association, the report of whose proceedings he largely quoted from. He (Lord M.) imagined that upon a close examination of the details of the plans recommended by the Noble Lerd and the Ulster Association, there would be by no means found that similarity of views upon which his Noble Friend reckoned —(1-leer, hear.) The Association cf . Ulster did not recommend an appeal both weys in matters of fact, and they did not recommend it without settling and defining the franchise. However if the Noble Lord was inclined to take the regulations of that Association, there would be the less ground of dif ference. However that might be in conformity with the notice that had been given, he should ask the House to concur in a Bill to amend the laws regarding the qualifi cation as well as the registration of voters in Ireland, and he hoped en that occasion to he able to show the House and his Noble Friend, that in perfect consistency with even thing that had been done and said before' on that branch of the subject—that it would not be expedient to effect any material alteration in the present system of registration, such as the Neble Lord would recommend, nor anything involving the constitution of a n e w appe ll ate j ur i s di ct i on, without r first explaining and defining the franchise. Guard. ing himself upon these two points, he should offer no fur ther opposition to the motion of the Noble Lord, while be reserved to himself and his celleagues the right of future action upon all the future stages of the Bill.—(Haar.) Mr. O'CONNELL considered himself by no means bound by any compromise between the Noble Lords on both sides of the House.—( Hear, hear.) Ho did not h. the least stand there belonging to any party on the ques tion—he stood there on behalf of the people of Ireland.— ( Ironical cheers.) The House and the country might naturally feel somewhat surprised at the fact, if it were not too manifest, that the Noble Lord, in a prepared speech made with great deliberation, and making. out the strongest case for himself, and in order, as he said, to put an end to the multiplication of fictitious votes in Ire land (for that was his object), had omitted to giv( the House some idea of what the number of these fraudulent voters was.—( Hear, hear, hear.) fir did not take up the statistics of Iceland, and say here are 190,000 inhabitants with 25, or 10, or four thousand voters, constituting an overwhelming number of voters claiming the franchise in proportion to the aggregate number of the people. That would be a fair way of investigating the question. Why did he not take Cork, and sat here are 713,000 inhabitants, and tell the House how many voter, were registered in the county ? Why, there were bg 3,800 voters on the register, and the wnesst of them tho could vote were 3,600. Why had he not called upon th. House to remedy that ? It was overwhelming, it was over powering, there must be fraud, there must be " villainous perjury," for that was the phrase of last Ses sion.—( Loud cries of " Oh, oh," from the Tory benches.) Perhaps the Noble Lord did not say it, but somebody seiri it for him.—( Oh, oh, and laughter.) What was meant by those interruptions ?—( Hess, hear.) He had " beastly bellowings" last year, perhaps they would be renewed in the present Session. He was showing the country and the House what it was that called for the vigilance of the Noble Lord. Cork had a population of 713,000, and the rural population of Wales was 710,000 ; the latter had 30,090 voters, while Cork, with the greater number of in habitants, had not more than 3 800; yet that was the system that required to be watched over. The Irish, it appeared, bad too many votes. Let them contrast it with the English representation, and then tell him if that were equal justice. The sole thought of the Noble Lord by day and his dream by night when he was in office, ended in the miserable abortion by which he had swindled the people of Ireland out of their votes by the kind of franchise he gave them. He was the author—it etas he that brought in the Bill. He was required give the people of Ireland the Engiish mode of registry, and that was what he gave them, and it bad even worked badly, because the franchise had trot been di fined. He (Mr. O'Connell) would not allow that Bill to come be fore that House without exposing its hollowness and mockery, and the paucity of voters in Ireland as compared with that of England. By the returns that had been laid upon the table of the House, it appeared that in the registration of 1832 the number of voters in Ireland was not 5 per cent of the male adult population,. while ' in England it was full 20 per cent., and when they bad the returns of the last registry from Ireland, it would be found there was a diminution of full 20 per cent., and a gentle man who was well acquainted with the subject had in formed him that it would be nearer 30 per cent. The Noble Lord's measure was a mockery, and was far mere distinguished for cunning than for fairness. Notice had been given by the Government for a Bill to amend the registration of voters, which would have been introduced on the previous night but for the accident of there being no House ; and although notice had been given for the 4th inst., the Noble Lord had some respecteb:e gentleman lurching for him, and took care to anticipate that motion. Why not give the Government art opportunity of bringing forward its measure, which might have answered the pur pose ? Oh, no, the Noble Lord had his pocket pistol-- the Ulster Constitutional Association, who little knew the total want of candour with which they were to be met. He thought it highly improper to have that motion brought forward in such a manner, and that the House was entitled to have that Government measure b. fore it, previously to the Noble Lord asking for leave to bring in his Bill. If he were disposed to feel any sorrow at the teultitudineue attendance of that night, or to congratulate tire Noble Lord cn the enthusiasm of his followers.— ( Loud Opposition cheers.) He was glad he had pro voked that shout, for it would show the people of Ireland, how little they had to ,gxpect from that House. —( Ironical cheer s.) Whatever became of them they roust rely upon themselves and their own exerions, and every act and exhibition of enmity to that people, and every attempt to lessen their fienchise was a new argu ment to those who thought that the connection between the two countries was not on a basis of justice or one which ought to be permanent.—(Cheers from the Irish Members.) He thought the House should pause, although he leered it would not, and not allow allow the Bill to be brought in before the measure of the Govern ment was on the table. Protesting ainst the vexation of the Noble. Lord's Bill—demanding from the House, if there were any bond of union, that they should have the br re fit of it, and without going into the details of the measure, he must enter his protest against a plan which gave them the worst part of the English system of registration. If they meant to have the people of both countries, and of Ireland especially, to consider the Union as binding, they must give them Eng lish rights and liberties. —( Cheers.) Let theirs not give the people of Ireland the Noble Lord's vexatious registra tion. Why had not the Noble Lord brought in a Bull for England when the system was so much complained of ? He objected not to amended registration, but to the object of the Noble Lord, which was to aim a blow at the liber ties of Ireland ; and being determined to meet him foot to foot, he should now move that the debate be adjourned till after the 4th instant. Mr. HUME seconded the motion. Mr. S. O'BRIEN said there was nothing in the state ment of the Noble Lord that surprised him. The Noble Lord bad last year stated that he had no palitical or party views whatever in bringing forward the measure, and yet be bad taken the very first opportunity, without waiting to sec what the measure of the Government was, and bad evinced his determination to 'mike the ques tion a regular party struggle. Although the Government had at the very earliest period announced its intention to bring forward the subject, the Noble Lord had, by a piece of jockeyship not in very good taste, taken advan tage of that motion to interpose his own in the first in stance. He did not think the Noble Lord had dealt fairly with the document which had been issued by the Ulster Association, and he doubted very much whether it was his real intention to make that Report the basis of his Bill. He wished to point out to the Government the expediency and wisdom of extending the provisions of the measure which the y w. Te about to intioduce for the amendment of the Act for the Registration of Voters in England, to Ireland, as it would do away with much of the jealousy and discontent that existed on the other side of the Chaotic I.—( Hear, hear.) He threw these remarks out fu the co,siderati,in of the Government as the resu:t of considerable reflection. With regard to the definition of the franchise it seemed to him that they were chtermined to regard the def. eta of the Reform Bill as sacred.—( Hear, hear.) Ne Hen. Mem bers of the opposite side had thrown out any suggestion with respect to the qu,litication. The lion. Member was then understood to state his views upon thisi subject, and to say he thought it should be based upon the rating under the Poor-law Act, but from the great noise which prevailed in the House during the whole of his speech, they wore alt.)gether inaudible in the gallery. He re =emended his Hon. Friend the Member for Dublin, nut to press his motion, as he thought under exisCng cir cumstances it would be unavailing to do so. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said he confessed his objec tion to the measure which the Noble Lord had sought - to introduce last Session, was but little diminished by the statement which the Noble Lord had made of the . present measure, which seemed to him, with the exception of some particulars, to be, in its main features, the same Bill, and calculated to produce the same calamitous cir cumstances which it had appeared to him would have been the result of the enactment into a law of the Bill of last year.--( Cheers.) lb must own, candidly, that the Noble Lord had stated his case very fairly; yet it was certainly :ornev,hat singular on the part of the Noble Lord, that while there were many abuses of all kinds in the registration system, in the mode of voting, and in the practice of elsctions in Eng land, Scotland, and Ireland—that while all these existed in England and Scothnd, and that while those in Scotland the Noble Lord had dwelt upon, yet all these he had passed by, and it was the abuses in the re gistration system of Ireland which called for the Noble Lord's especial attention, and made hint anxious, the first moment of the session, to provide a remedy for, leaving all the others in full vigour without attempting either to remedy or palliate them.—( Cheers.) He must say likewise that although there were many abuses in the registration system of Ireland, that although he could not deny the statements made as well on the one side as the other, yet he did view with considerable jealousy and cl,rm a measure for reforming these abuses, which we; sought to be enacted entirely with a view to the restriction of the franchise.—(Cheers.) This was the spirit of the Bill of 1829, brought in for the concession of the Catholic claims, and which was a stringent measure of disqualifies_ Lion.—(Cheers.) It was also the spirit of the Bill of 1832; and the Noble Lord again considered this measure with a view to remedy abuses which might have arisen, and to granting franchises which might be necessary, but not of. altering the restrictions of the Bill of 1832. (Cries of " Hear, hear.") After these two measures the Noble Lord proposed a measure on the mode of restriction, and to narrow the franchiset granted to the people of Ireland some fifty years ago, so as to disfranchise the people of Ireland. It might be quite right to introduce a Bill on the subject, but it behoved the House to look most narrowly to the provisions of such a Bill, and to see clearly what would be the efiset of all its provisions taken together.—( Hear, hear.) He remembered his Noble Friend the late Lord Durham, in discussing some restric tions on the 101 franchise in England, which he thought too numerous and too apt to be vexatious, said, " You may say every man who is a 101. householder shall have a vote, but sou may add that he shall also be able to construe the first book of Homer," intimating that the fran chise might, in fact, be confined to a few per. sons, althought it might seem to be a large and extended franchise.—( Hear, hear, hear.) The Noble Lord proposed to continue the franchise as it ex,. islet!, by proposing thet the franchises should be fran chises defined by the Courts of Law, whose uniform course, as he had already observed (without imps ing to the Judges any political bias, but only the tend enc y of all the authorities of the Courts of Law), was generally to restrict, by technical distinctions and definitions, the fran chises which existed, tither by common law or statute.— ( Hear, hear.) It was thus that the largest words in our charters, " our communities," " burgesses of towns," " community' of our said town of Bath," and so forth, had been in the course of time restricted to some twelve EV NIN G E fITICPN. - it:irteen persons.—(Loed cheers.) Now , if they islied to part with all control over these matters... ,f they wished to pass a Bill to which the other El Also of Parliament would not give its consent, that must he a Bill in which these franchises were in future to be ;1. fined and settled by the Judges of the Courts of Law. 1,,r if the franchises were to be thus submitted to the de cision of the Judges, he could well imagine than in no ong course of time. they would be limited to a very small :lass of persons.—(Hear, hear.) It was very well to sal that when a man has not a vote, because be does not really ossess the estate which by the law he was meant to pos. • se, and yet by fraud is placed upon the register, that be 'could be taken off; but they must, on their part, take cars 11 . at, in erecting a barrier against the fraudulent, tbey not also erect a barrier against the real bong P ie oster.—_hear, hear, and cheers.) Now bow was a man o exerei.se the franchise, who, conceiving himself to be a :oter in Ireland, but happening not to be connected scab ,ny strong, and wealthy, and powerful landlord, but living n his own independent property, and who reading their lets of 1829 and 1832, conceived that he had a vote, and vent to the Assistint-Barrister, who allowed his votebe vas then appealed against, and put to the expense of going o the Judge of Assize. That Judge might be ono who ,ad an opinion in his favour, and his vote might be allowed her', but the same ptocess was to be repeated nett re' He might find an Assistant Barrister, or if he went to the assize town, he might fled a Judge, who put a differs nt interpretation upon the law, whose arg uments . f.e,.-bolder might be enabled to follow, and who decided hat he had no vote ; and thus, after considerable loss, be and himself deprived of the power of giving his vote. lie ( Lord John Russell) said that when his neigh' )ours saw that--when they saw that the .009 esult of his labour was that he had undergone reat loss of time and trouble, and had been put to cosi' lerable Expense—had been sent before three, or four, or lye, six, seven, or eight Judges, and that they had Pro: sounced learned, subt!e, end intricate disquisitions, wbieo ended in depriving their neighbour of his vote, and money' irne, and trouble, he (Lord John Russell) sa id that bough their votes might be excellent in law, they I ° l o ce thus discouraged and prevented from attemptisseng ltl/ exercise them.—(Hoar, hear.) He (Lord John Ru ;aid this would be the effect of the Noble Lord's Bill. H. did net say there might not be certain cases of fraud — hat there might not be either cases of fraud or mistake, •lut be did say that these might be corrected in a much nore sittple manner, and that if they wished to se ttle the whole question he believed they would find it impossible to • to so tranquilly, and, above all, with ju s tice to the TenP le of Ireland, unless they took into consideration this question of franchises. Was it not a great evil to g ive franch ises to the people of Ireland, and that they sheuld have th e Lord Chief Justice of the Court of Queen's Bench l a y ing sown the law in ono manner an d the Chief Baron tO another ?—( Hear, hear.) Was-n o t this an evil ? A n " when the Nsb!e Lord entirely prastermitted h ' eg A tna.i - land and Scotland, and had given his whole ,an; sole attention to Ireland, was it too much to ask if he did not choose to do it in this Bill—or let h im, if l:e, liked, bring in a separate Bill—but was it too much to 7 - say that this system of franchise ought likewi'c to 1.) , ' s d . tied ?—( Cheers.) The Noble Lord said that he (b era J. Russell) stated that the questions of registration 61 , 1 q ualification ought to be separated. He did not deny threat but he had found that it was perfectly impossible t o bill " the franchise in a separate Bill and to frame a registrha tion Bill solely relating to that subject. That migh t bet , s' t right course, and was the one pursued last year. But vu'a he ( Lord John Russell) said was, they ought not to a sumo they were giving a remedy to all these M attes, when, in fact, all that was done was to set up elfin ; elete system of registration, and to narrow the franc felt in Ireland, to those people, and to those only, v." fe for that they bad powerful protection, and who were put ." ward by men of property; as their tenants and dep end ants, and who could go to the Registration Coutts, okg; sired that the issue would not be ruinous; but to t a t . t away the franchise from those men, who felt tu l such a courie would be ruinous t 3 their canaille!, and that it was so difficult to be maintatnehe; that it would really seem they had wished to v itiate He registration in Ireland altogether. ( Cheers.) 1 0 • thought the Noble Lord was quite right, according to forms of Parliament, to give notice of his Bill as he bre done, if he these to do so ; and he did not think, a fter lnf sanction which had been given by the House to th e 13i," s t " ' • last year, that it would be at all a Parliamentary course oppose bringing in the Bill. Ho should therefore vow for the Bill being brought in against the amendment'''. • (Hear, hear.) w as Mr. LUCAS said that he had before stated, and again ready to state, his full conviction that it was big desirable, not for cne class, but for all classes of v oters, I_, • Ireland that the franchise should he based on some sa w., and more satisfactory foundation than the oath of qua Lien. But he did not state, as the Noble Lord scone'', r attribute to him, that thu Noble Lord the Member 'sea North Lancashire would have acted more justly if be b o a • coupled the definition of the franchise with his Bill. be never entertained such an idea. On the contrary, t thought the Noble Lord had acted in the manner le, e c s b calculated to avoid confusion, by adopting the course Will was objected to byher Maj. sty's Government. After a few words from Colonel RAWDON, The House divide -1, when the numbers were— For the motion 261 For the amendment Majority for leave to bring in the. Bill --19 0 Leave was then given to bring in the Bill ; and tbß , • House adjourned at Half.past Eleven. REIGATE ELECTION. • -4•0 REIGATE, TUESDAY.—The returning officer lILIAqt fixed to.morrow, the 3d inst., for the norn'ination• of &Pw ' , candidates. There arc three who contend for the r e. .. I presentation of the borough, Lord E istuor and D'Arcy (Tories), and Dr. Bedford, who has come f° r.- •-; ward on Liberal principles. The borough is a plete pocket borough—as to election, it is all bumo7; and it is calculated that out of about 120 voters 1 11 1 0 are not a dozen who are free from the it.fluenco of t" Somers family. cop. ••' A very curious circumstance has transpired in nection with the election. It appears that owing too l e. _ ;. informality in the signing and pa3ment of the rat es i 0 Id, borough, that a great number of the electors•—an dee d the greater part of thorn—have no legal vote ; a ba s should they give their votes, there t no doub t- t the election would be void. It is said that the yo hn Lord is so dcliewe in health, that he will vet `; able to attend at the nomination, and that soo t° P e ri . son will appear on his behalf to address the elcnirsa... Dr. licallord pledges himself to go to the 0 1 " sI that there is no doubt of a contest taking pla cer t he • though irons the pecuhar situation of the boroUP , Liberal candid-ate has no chance of snccess. L L' THE FIRE IN FINSIIURY.-Among tLie doo things at Llte fire to-day—it would not be a fire iD Qn btla' without something funny—an elderly- gentlenel r . c os,.• taken his place under the canopy of a capacious ern and was lost in thoughts sublime, gazing at the sP ec oeS of the devouring element, heeding not the fiery c l, e d which kept falling around, until one more r' o os than the others fill on his devoted umbrella, an d a titer' made a nov,l tcrch for him, much to the li": 6 ',0 1 !, oti ;tic surrounding crowd. The gentleman's reve rle ,,,,bes. only disturbed by matters aloft coming to a crisi4, l ,-- he completed the dcstructiou of the poor umbre'otbee breaking its ribs by dashing it on the ground. . k arst,. person—an exquisite—sporting a noble pair of wh . ° 4 60,, 0 was ogling some pretty dears in the opposite " 1 oat, when a flake, seemingly especially made for the cccahytlA . • plastered his Row!and's anointed —a singe, a prettf stl r blaz:,, and " Oh, ma whiska," and the attractiv e ge ; - man looked not a littl=-f2fa. HORIZONTAL GOLD WATCHES• each.—llighly finished horizontal Flat Gold Watches; g oo in four holes, with enamel dial, hand to mark the sea' n ....' maintaining power to continue going whilst being "idle. Eight Guineas each. These e l egan t wa i s tcoat pocket W4 hori a are recommended for great accurac y an d d ura bility; t be zontal escapement being p e c u li ar ly suited to combine thes a .,4 Jo portant requisites in a flat watch. A written w arranty, bill! A. B. SAVORY and SONS, W a t c h ma k ers , No. 9; London, opposite th e B an k. HORIZONTAL FLAT WA.TC--,n,ye:: very small and neat -with accurately finished jewelled - 71.1s1 1 :' merits, are offered i n s ilver cases, Four Guineas ari d s dish each; gold cases, enamel dial, Eight Guineas; sil v : r ,.. r ste. i d . Nine Guineas; gold dial, Ten Guineas each. A h r;;-11 01 warranty is given with fixed terms, on which the Wa te- always receive any attention required. • T. COX SAVORY,. 'A Watchmaker, Jeweller, , 47, Cornhill (Seven clO r Gracechur , n-street), London. N. B.—Second-hand Watches A Tz • NIP: SUPERIOR LONDON TABLE • IP; with Ivory Handles, 14s. per dozen ; Dessert Kell e r,„'' Carvers, ss. 6d. per pair ; Table Knives, with v'",., s ° ' handles, Bs. Bel. per dozen , Dessert, (is. Bd. ; C 3 , 1. ' 4,- 1;4 1 1: per uair ; Globe-shape urns, 4 quarts, "73. ; tbe set " I X)s. ; Papier Macke Tea-trays, gothic shape, XO5 ; full sizes. • r ye h' Catalogues, containing the plies of every article' # fli inn ironmongery and entlery, gratis. eet. RIPPON and BURTON, Wells-street, Oxford -so- Established 1820. wife BIRTHS. * Mi di° On the 25th ult., in Go B I the wife of W• - ' Of Esq., M.D. of a son. On the 28th ult., at Ilminster, Mrs. H. Cociri . pf( Wil ' ~. (0 daughter. On the 28th ult., in Percy-street, Mrs. giant?"' daughter. . vir 0 01* On the 29th ult., at Wimbledon, the lady of -d: . Efq., of a daughter. . • ' 't the lief r• On the 29th ult., at Laxtow Vicarage', the lady 0 - (w ee A. 0. Fitzgerald, Rector of Fledborough, Notts, of a - - • MARRIED. file tbe r. On the 20th ult., Edward Austin, Esq , surgeon , 0 , : hithe, to Miss Maria Rudland, niece of C . F. Sprtit"l3' of Wellington-terrace, St. John's-wood. On the 30th ult., at St. Pancras New Church, B a ty t ' s Husey, 'Esq , of Park-square; Regent's-park, to daughter of Charles Innis, Esq.; of Euston -square • • 090 .1) /F!. • FA' ", On the 21st ult., at Waltham Abbe-,lt. S. fle' c ' hpss of the Rev. R. 11. Selby Bele, late Itictor of Breath. and grandson of Dr. G. Horne, late Bishop of I N l" vric rouo det j i On the 23d ult., at Stourbridge, Mr. J. Swift, 1-00,_tioe On the 24th ult. at St. SaviiMes, Jersey, 11. G 6tt 'red 1. 0 son of W. A. Gott, ' Esq., of Gordon-Square, Londotb,.. 3 ' o f Joh On the 25th ult., at Cheltenham, Catherine, wb e • Forbes, Esq. • rio •id, On the 27th ult., Mrs. 'Hodson, or Royal-plite . e , On the 28th ult., in Jersey, M. A. Nethercote, r•slo'oshirp. the 53d Regiment, and of Moulton-grattge, NorthainPl a of v . On the 28th ult., Charles Stewart, Om younge' t r° r e. S. Drewry, E , q., of CaMbridge-streot, Connaught-stir:,:shl f On the 29th ult. J. Hornby, Esq. of Blackburn, L p late o On the 30th ult., •at Tottenham, 31r. G. Oad' e ' Stamfoed-hill, aged 75. Landon : Printed a.nd PublLhed by MURIA) - ctr od • Yo. 112, Strand, at 2 1 4 e Sun °face, /\C; 1841' the county of Aliddlesez.—Vednesday, Februarl • . - ..... I A 4i ~~ at uuti .150 1 434 .eau .' "::;4:1:;1. ....t . t%a. ~.A . ..,,,, 1 . T ,....4.. ' . ' i t !,.. fr i . .i 10 1 . 4 IT; otv t ‘ 141 ,,... 448 '/; .~.,~