The Sun. — London, England, 1841-06-05 00:00:00

- ENING EDITION to 5'..., effect that the policy of Lord Grey and that of Lord M'ihourne were essentially different. He wished to call their attention to a very impor' ant fact. 'I le , y left. tee Cabinet, hut they left Lord Grey behind them.—( dear, ;;,•=r, and cheers.) They left upon the ae proeriation tetestion. 'I he Right Honourable Member for Pembroke had stated, that that was the only queetien upei which he differed from the rest of the Cabinet. A Commission was hatted by Lased Grey, to take the religious census of the people of Ireland. That was the question upon Vrteiga the west out. They stated that they perceived 3( one, the principle upon which it was based ; the appropriation question was naturally connected with the Commission ; and upon it they went out. It was perfectly manifest, without reference to dates and facts, and without reference to speeches. that they separated thereselves from the Cabinet upon a question upon which the rest of the Government eoneurred with Lord Grey. The Rlght Hon. Baronet the blember for Pembroke stated that many good measures had 1 eon intro:limed by the Whigs ; and he and the Honourable end Learned Member for Exeter said and boasted that they a ere not cottuteracted by the Tories. But he would ask did the Whigs deserve no credit for bringing forward measures that even their enemies could not oppose; or had the Right Hon. Baronet such an estimate of the character of his new friends as to think the measures weredeteriorated by their support? — (Loud cheers.) He stated that the Post-office Bill belonged exclusively to the Whigs.--( Hear.) That was not so, because that Bill was supported by a 'area portion of the Tories in that House. it was supported also and applauded by Lord Ashburton—(Loud cheers) —with whom the Right Hon. Baronet (the Member fur Pembroke) ottgheto have some fellow feeling, and it passed the Lords—the great Conservatives of the country, according to the doctrine et Gentlemen opposite—it passed the House wlthout a division. —( Cheers.) If the Bill was so f, aught with evil, was it not the duty of the Tory party to arrest such a Bill in that place ?—( Loud cheers from the Opposition.) He con fessed that he was at a loss to discover the cause for such a cheer, but at all events they could not di:pute that it reseived the support of a large portion of the party calling themselves Conservatives. But was that great commercial boon to be withheld lest those monopolies should be endangered, and by means of the modification of which the revenue of the country, it was admitted, might be re cruited 2---( Hear, hear.) True it was that the expenditure of late had exceeded the revenue, but mark, that excess had arisen from an outlay for the honour and interest of the country, and he could not retrain from expressing his surprise that with r eference to that branch of the questtos, the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Pem broke, who was First Lord of the Admiralty under a Whig Government, did not avail himself of an opportunity of rerer- ring to the state of that department with which he had been so long and so honourably associated.— ( Hear, hear, and cheers.) The Right Hon. Gentleman scarcely adverted to their external policy. He thought he 'voted have said something on their Indian empire ' on which he had given a notice, but which he had dropped when an announcement was made of the victories of British arms, unless the measures ef the intended Governor-General should be em harrasied by any rash declaration made by the Rieht lion. Geutlentan.—(Cheers ) On the Chinese question he had certainly said a few sentences which, in his opinion, he would no; have n.ed, if he had bees apprised that at the time he was uttering them, the flag of England was floating on the walla of Canton.—( Hear, hear.) The results of the Indian cam paign, as well as the results of the Chinese expedition, would, he thought. afford the best refutation of the premature sarcasms of the Right Hon. Baronet.--(Hear.) It appeared to him that the silence of the Right Hon. Baronet and his friend on the Syrian question, was most extraordinary ; they had merely glanced at it, and for their silence he was anxious to make some compensation by quoting the opinion of a man hostile to England, but whose sense of justice did not prevent his offering - the high tribute of his approval to wisdom and genius. He held in he hand an extract from the speech of M. Berryer, in which he said Lord Palmerston had achieved great things for England in a short time. The movement of the world was changed. The Mediterranean had again become the centre of the world, and connected the 60,000,000 of inhabitants of India, of whom the laws centred in a small island on the other side of the Channel. The Mediterranean was now the central point in all the great transactions of the world. Lord Palmerston had planted his standard there—he had done a mighty deed, and he was not surprised that the most ardent English Tory was now resolved to do him honour and give him a firm sustainment.—( Hear, hear, hear, and cheers.) He supposed he was adverting to the conduct of the Duke of Wellington, for that great soldier was too English, when the ho nour.of his country was coecerned, to degenerate into a partisan. But how would the men who supported these things—how would everyman in Europe, he would say, be astonished if the House of Commons should call upon the Queen to dismiss front office the man they could not deprive of fame—(Cheers)—and in his place to transfer the foreign interests of the country to those who in 1829 prompted Russia to force the Baldec ? He would nOW pass, and rapidly, from the foreign policy of the country to the Home Department, end he did so because he saw the Honourable Baronet opposite, the Member for Wiltshire. He was happy to congratulate him that without the assistance of the Olivers and the Edwards, the tranquillity of the country bad been preserved.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) With the Home Department was connected the: Poor-law question. The Honourable Baronet the Member for Pembroke had stated that he condemned the severity of certain of the clauses of that Bill, but, in the pro gress of the measure, in the cause of humanity he had never interposed—(Loud cheers)—dreading that his conunisseration might be listened to with same disrelish by the Honourable Member for Nottingham, with regard to whose el oction a peti t iota had been presented that day.—( Cheers. ) The Hen. Gentleman was one whom he greatly respected, in oonsequenee of the sacrifices he had made in the cause of the poor, and which sacrifices, he hoped, he would ere long have an opportunity of repeating.—(Loud cheering.) He recollected that many years ago a motion was made with respect to the Church, and in the minority was the name of Walter.—( Loud cheers.) Much had been said about the appropriation clause by the . other side, but, if . be recollected rightly, pal ties ow the other side of the House were connected with passing* an appropriation clause with a vengeance, they agreed to the Canada Bill.—(Hear , hear)—a Bill in wich they consented that property secured by Act of Parlisment to the Church should be divested from it, and applied to the Popish Church.—(Hear, hear. ) That in his opinion showed that t he p art y o pp osite were not—influenced by those exclusively Protestant sent i- Mintz - which it was generally supposed they enterta'ned. II& he would pass from the consideration of the measures adopted by ilea Whigs to the policy of the Right Honourable Baronet, the Member for Tamworth, wbo he his resolution asked for the support of the Hciase, The Right Hon. Baronet had adverted to the inaroduct!en of the Reform .111 1 1, Whet was his conduct in re gard to that .Bill f During the two years befo Members it had passed, his party h a d refused td grpt to, the great cities; of the empire ; and, In consequence of their not having taken cognizance of the state . of public opinion, their pernicious resistance to the measure had produced that state of things which had put the Noble .Lord the Member for North Lancashire, and the, Right Honourable Baronet the Member fir gerehroke, to the painful necessity of recommending the sub emersion of one portion of the Legislature.—( Hear, hear.) He %geld turn next to the course pursued by the Right Ho nourable Baronet in 1839. (The Right Hon. Gentleman here made some observations, but in so low a tone, that we were unable to catch even their purport.) The Right Hon, eiatleman then referred to a report of the proceedings of the Committee of the House of Commons in regard to the Grano Lodge. On the 12th day a Novemer, 1834, tlee.Grand Lodge in Ireland came to a resolution, to the effect than they hoped they would be allowed to vindicate their sen timents while d enounce d es e the paltry remnantof an expiring Went." The King had dismissed his Ministers at the death of Lord Spencer, and he called the Right Hon. Baronet to office. 'f }ere could be no doubt but that the country was thee in a high state of religious excitement.—(Hear, and cheers.) What had the Right Honourable Baronet done ? The,Parliament had sat only for two 'sessions, yet the Right 11.o nour able Baronet had shrunk from eneountering it, and I I had dissolved the Parliament in the midst of that. excitement, ' which had been produced in the manner to which he had al lulled.—(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Baronet, it appeeeet! : .attached great impoclanee to appointments in the lemmliold -Ind on that occasion ' the Earl of linden, the Grand Master ef the °ranee Lodges of Ireland, was the Noble- Tian whom he had selected to pl ice in the closest relation to his Sovereign.--(Cheers.) 1 . 00 well did they ri nsepeer the answers giveti by the Hon. Member for Cambridge, seen Secretary of St ate for the Home Department, t o the addresses presented to him by berets of Orangemen.—( Ch. ens.) The s cenes at the Dublin Theatre were fresh in their recollec tion —( Hear, hear, and cheers.) Such had been the conduct of the 'tight Hon. Baronet in 1835. Whit hail it been :ince? It was quite true, as the Right Hon »melee Baronet the Memeer for Pembroke had said that his Right Honourable Friend had voted for the _English Municipal Reform Bill. lint what course hail Ira adopted with regacd to the Irish Municipal Bill ? tie had stated that teland was placed under such pecu liar aircuutstances, that, it was not entitled to a COMMII - , rif privileges with England.— ( Loud cheers.) England fleet at Gist forced him to give way; but when lie did so he still libelled to an odious distinction, which established fer efie'poorlie country a franchise twice as large as for the / tel l er on eeee( Loud cheers.) The attempts which had alnico. been made- on the Parliamentary franchise of Irwiatel - had enhanced the difficulties with which the U jog , ironourable Baronet had admitted he should have tsetcontend. Those were the reasons for which he thought they tegist e ia preference to the ftiget Hon. Baronet, to continue ellYeer that Government by which M nnicipal Reform had bee cerried e --by which Parliamen tar y Reform had been carried, eirehich slavery had been abolislvd , hy eh ich the East itd r i . a .-. trade had been opened, by which commerce been unshackled, which hail afforded a cheap mode of tfetreit for intellectual and commercial communication, lell'etieielt education had been promoted, by which Ireland had been exineiliated, which hadeementid the union of the Canadas, Wing the foundation of a mighty empire, by which a great accession had been made to the glory and renown YSEnglund, an/ she peace of the world secured.—(Cheers.) , .ir STRATFORD CANNIN G s lid he must be allowed to tip,,:without eepaiting from that co urtese y , which the Right ob. Gestleman had an laboriously professed, that for a Gen- Aktbeki'who - was acquainted with the forms of that House, he leas singularly infelicitous in the personal character which he 61U-10 1 1-he debate. —( Hear. ) He was fir from saying that iheutlen. Gentleman intended to do so, but whenever he took Apt iris. debate allusions of the most pointed and personal elm- Mum iievariably tell from him. With respect to the argument 'A it.heJlight, Hon. Gentleman, he would leave that so abler ban'ils.:„,,tie .must, however, be allowed to say tha t h e could enl.y inter, from the argument of the Right Hon. Gentleman , eat; in lii; opinion, suc h were t h e transcendent merits of the Ittieforre 'Bill, that whoever took part in that enactment , how ifMr ineaPable o f exerc i s i ng the Ministerial fenetione, would Tee - tofferetilo'retain office. In the progress of thedebate, that Weet which would send them to their respective constituen eies; .and which At first was scarcely whispered on She: opposite benches, had at length been distinctly avowed. ( s eutleinan un the other side of the House, felt the pressure ef 4ererguanents on the Conservative side. They felt that they lu i d i eor caw to make out against the arguineets advanced on qiq side of the House, and that the only course for the m to tersue, in order to avoid the duties preseribed to tl e n' was either resignation or dissolution. '1 heir seemed to intend itfopting the latter, but they (the Conservatives) would only tivirrve fresh strength from that course. The temporary wind - pliss of the foreign policy of the Noble Lord (Lord Palmersten) which he was both wilting and happy to admit, might, never daeless, be found to have sown die seeds of future disturbance. 4411 ear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman had referred to 44-eranduct of the Government in all its itepaetments, and al. tielteugh he was ready to do justice to the diating4ithed conduit of the Noble Lord at the head of the Foreign Departigeo,t, yet, be'regild ant help reflecting that most of his measures had Lie carried by the co-operation and assistance of his (Sir S. Can . i) side of the House. Looking at the colonies, he would vi. ye 'that it was during the existence of the pre sout_,_G,ove...._.rnen, ens s the Canadas had been thrown into re - ma x. v•ila , .. ,„ %lost to the mother country .—( Hear. ) roans. m ine. e of Lower Canada as well as that of *sat ead `lt-not NT found but id prepared for a rebel "apt, 4skoss. enio Z t. for the loyalty and patriotism of the pihOgetetegligfi,,,,, e ; itry_ would have been lost to us r pf ibe E ze l ninie ;.iitiovernment. , After the Chan lode' eish e segyeriemvedirtri to go on with the usual busi. hes msht lion. Prima would y alto s r so disistrous a division, have neglected his duty, placed as he was at the head of a large party in that House, had he not taken some steps for recording his sense of so tincoostittr tional a course. He confeso-A he was at a loss to understand how the Nlemeers for Lincolnshii e cote.: reconcile the vo.e they were now about to give, vvi h their eorsdesit up n a late occasion. The Government said they had brought forward their measures under the pressure of a deficit, and hat they looked to those measures for supplying the deficiency—they had heard from one of those Hon. Members that if it depended upon his vote, they would never have an opportunity of bring • ing those measures before the House, but now he thought it consistent with that declaration to vote his confidence in the same Government, he for one could not reconcile such con duct. Thanking the House for its patience, he would not de tain them from hearing those who could so much better treat the whole of the subjects before them. Mr. C. BULLER said he would not follow the last speaker, but would endeavour to discuss the singularly framed resolution of the Right Hon. Baronet upon general grounds. The resolution was so singularly worded for the purpose of obtaining a vote of no confidence in Ministers, without the usual responsibilities attending upon such a course. Whatever might he the result of the division, and he did not think the Right Hon. Baronet would succeed, for not one on that (the Ministerial) side of the House could give a vote to turn out Ministers, of whose general policy they approved, merely because they felt bound to vote against them on one or two measures. It would be, of course, a party division, and no one could vote with the Right Hon. Baronet without at the same time giving him his confidence ; nor was there one on his side of the House prepared to do that. He agreed with him in thinking it unconstitutional in a Minis try to hold office merely by the favour of the Crown. They were of necessity compelled to give in to the declared wishes of that House ; but not upon any isolated measure. They were justified in holding on, if the House gave them reason to believe that it still had confidence in their general policy, but more especially if they had reason to believe that they had a majority of the people with them. Walpole resigned upon a merettrivial motion, but it told him that he had failed to secure a majority even by all his corruption ; and it would have been dangerous to his life to have held out in the then excited state of men's minds. North and Addington resigned when in pos session of an actual majority, but they both found it impossible to carry on a ruinous and disgraceful war with our colonies in one case, and one of the greatest, most expensive, and most unpopular of wars in the other, with base majorities, and having the whole country against them. On the other hand look at Pitt in 1784, and the Right Honourable Baronet in 1835 ; the former retained office after repeated de feats, because he thought he had the confidence of the coun try, and he was justified by the result ; the latter was justified by the great chance of success. The Ministry of Lord , Li verpool lost the Property Tax in one year, and the Salt Tax ' in the next, yet they never thought of resigning ; they sus tained one of the most ignominous defeats that was ever suf fered by any Government upon a question deeply involving the honour and feelings of the Sovereign, deeply involving their own honour, the Bill of Pains and Penalties against Queen Caroline, but they did not resign when they abandoned that Bill fearful of a defeat in that House. Why did not that Ministry resign upon defeats of such magnitude, merely be cause they felt that although Parliament condemned those measures they did not condemn their general policy, but pre ferred them to any other Government which could replace them. The practical inference to be drawn from all that was that a Government ought not to resign upon an individual defeat, nor so long as they were able to wield with effect the executive of the State.—(Tory cheers.) What was the cause of the resignation of the Duke of Wellington in 1830? Ostensibly it was the vote upon the Civil List, but he retired because there never was a Government so unpopular at home and despised abroad it was utterly powerless for the pro tection of property—it had not to cope with an armed rebellion, but was beat by machine and rick burr.ers in the agricultural districts; they were obliged to make their Sovereign refuse to dine at the Mansion-house for fear of riot ; but a still stronger ground was behind. He resigned because he and his Govern.. meet feared a defeat upon the question of Reform in Parlia ment. Was that the case at present ? Did the Government fear any discussion of their measures? No ; the shrinking from discussion was on the other side. Had the ordinary and efficient administration been in any, even the slightest degree, paralyzed by the assumed weakness of the Government?— (Tory cheers.) He thanked them for the cheer, for it gave him the opportunity of saying that they had met the most dangerous outbreak of modern times in the most prompt and efficient manner ; they had put down the Chartists' armed and unarmed outbreaks in a manner impossible to be more prompt and energetic, and yet by the ordinary laws of the land. Ireland, which was always in a state of disorder and disorgani zation, was extremely tranquil. The Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth appeared to him very hard pressed for an argument against the Government, when he spoke of their being sorely pressed upon the motion of his Hon. Friend the Member for Finsbury, as if it was not often the case that the strongest Government might be oecasionally pressed between eight and nine o'clock on a chance division. It was unneces sary to remind the Right Hon. Baronet of the radical state of the House at such an hour; but whatever majorities might support him on great divisions, when he came into power he would find himself very weak in his divisions at that hour.— (Hear, hear.) It appeared to him that Hon. Members on the other side had cautiously refrained from much allusion to j the foreign policy of the Government, Although it was that po licy which, whatever their individual opinions might be as to its correctness and expediency, they must all be anxious to see upheld in such a manner as would inspire respect for the power of England.—(Hear, hear.) It could not be denied that there never was a period when that power was so much disputed.—(Cheers.) He did not happen to agree with all the foreign policy of the Noble Lord, especially as regarded the Eastern question, but in following out that policy the Noble Lord had judged more correctly than he (Mr. Buller) did of the feelings of the people, nine-tenths of whom had gone along with him in it.—(Cheers.) He could not help bearing his testimony to the extraordinary vigour by which its success had been insured, the courage with which it had been followed up, and the skill with which all the pre parations had been made. He was proud of the energy and influence that policy had given to England, and he could not help contrasting that proud position with the miserable figure they cut under the Administration of the Duke of Wellington, when there was not a power in Europe that did not presnme upon their internal dissensions, and when they allowed the Turkish empire to be dismembered by France and Russia, with just so much of remonstrance as showed the impotence of their threats.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet had confined the burden of his charge to the acts of the Government. It did not appear to bins, however, that so very unusual a number of the measures of the Government had ' been thwarted.—(Hear, hear.) They had lost nothing of importance except the Irish Registration Bill, and that was of less practical importance, because the law was left as it stood, and the other side had not succeeded in disfranchising the Irish people under the pretence of amend ing the registration. It appeared to him that, with regard to the proposed modification of the sugar defies, the Government would have deserved the charge of weakness if, after having brought forward such a plan, they had not afforded the coun t try an opportunity of expressing its opinion upon it.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman had reproached the Go vernment with having carried some of its measures by compro mise and conciliation to Hon. Members opposite. That aps peared to him an extraordinary doctrine for a Conservative leader, whose measures should rest on such a basis as to secure the co-operation of both parties on all great questions. It appeared that the Right Hon. Baronet abhorred agitation, but he (Mr. Buller) thought agitation a very good thing occa sionally, because political repose was too frequently a proof of compromise. Did the Right Hon. Baronet forget that during his short reign of 1835 his defence of every measure he brought forward was that it was analogous to some measure of Lord Althorp's, and the only one majority he obtained on the malt tax was through the co-operation of his (Mr. Buller's) side of the House? In 1828 the repeal of the Test and Corporation Acts bad been carried—in 1829 the measures of Catholic Emaucipatioss ' to which the Eight Honourable Baronet had been all his life opposed, had been carried. Did the Right Honourable Baronet aesome a more proud position in the Session of 1830 on that account? Why, the first night an amendment had been moved by the Right Hon., but not then reconciled Baronet, the Member for Kent ; and it was only thrown out by the private advice of their own leaders in the other House. The great measure of the Session was the financial paliey . of the Government. They had an opportunity for a great remissiess of taxes, and the most important division was the Chancellor of the Eeeheilner's proposal to repeal the flser Act, while the landed gentlemed wished to repeal the Malt-tag, On that occasion the Government was only able to carry their prepeeition by the support of the then Opposition. —( tlear, hear.) He wa, - ; entepelled to admit that the. e was a great degree of weakness in the prevent Government; and that RV a Metter of serious evil to the peblie is That weak ness interfered with the ',rout -Ps% of many beneficial measures, lie need only instance the County Courts Bill,—the appairr ment of two new Judges ia Chhticery,—and, above all, the New Poor-law Bi.l. He regretted the foss of these measures, but, after all, he would rather have a Cioveennieet with the sin of net be.ng able to carry their good measures, than 4 Cloven ment able end wiling to carry bail ones.—(Cheers,) Before he withdrew is iS confidence from the present Government, on the ground of their went of strength, he must see that a stronger one was taking their pigs 1 End he did not think the Right Hon. llasonet could show such a Government for any J ong period. If he again assumed the reins of power, ho ven turned to predict the Right Honourable Gentleman would again repeat his former errors, and bring his Ads ministration to a close as speedily as that of the Duke of Wellington. The first great act of the Right Hon, Baronet's political life to which he could refer with sa tisfsetion was the Catholic Emancipation Hill, Had he pur sued the police by which he was then actuated, he would have been elevated into the rank of an enlightened statesman, and obtain a name for political integrity amnrigst al future states men. Instead of that, he had resorted to the mere temporary shifts of political expediency, and his course since then had been nothing hat a servile repetition of the errors that had led ito ha resignation. Then he had been borne into office on the shoulders of a no-Popery mob, •as he was now carried to its gates as the champion of monopoly,—(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Baronet well knew his own weakness, and had shrunk from power on a former occasion on account of its difficulties and dangers. He had stated that his difficulty then was Ire land, and he had done nothing since to make the government of that country more easy. His policy appeared to consist more in having loopholes of retreat than being able to meet the danger boldly, and it reminded him of the feudal Barons of old, whis, while strengthening their ramparts, always contrived having posterns and gates by which they could abandon their strongholds in time of danger, —( Ghee' s and laughter.) Every question of the Bigot Hon. %met had been based upon unspecified time and unparticularized deteils. And • the f act was, that his ob:cure explicitness on the sugar d uty hack led many to believe that there was nothing to pre. vent his proposing a greater modification of these dutie s if there was only the lapse of a reasonable time allowed.—( Hear, hear.) The timber dutie s h e had opposed on the contents of an unknown letter from the Go v ernor of Canada, stating that the human mind was utte rl y inca p able of grappling with the ques tion. For the future any letter of any future Governor might induce the Bight Hon. Baronet to alter his views to snit hi altered circumstances. recommended or approved of the With regard to corn lie was surethat I h re aci gar4 , l the financial position of. the s n l n uiin g country .ea state, n andtle m a: , icountry he had been most explicitly iezirnmunicative. It, was an eld maxim, of Tory statesmen;' and a very pod .one, ;that Party had a r ight to throw out a remedy for an. aeariese, no par ied , 4ed gr i evanc e, as taxes always were, unless he t% as ;pre pare( ' w ith soother remedy h its place. But on that point the Bight Hon. Baronet had been m most y steriously silent. Wh e ther he meant to squa re things by exidirlg tu the national debt, or reducing the es.tablishmeats, or by same seheMe of indirect taxation affecting an interest which at present knew nothing about it, or by restoring the old rates of postage, or by that highly p o pular tax, a property tax , or by hfs comin g , round, as he most prQba .), 11 y w orld, to such alterations of tie tariff as he was now opposing tIA Chancellor of the Exchequer upon - all that was matter of uncertainty, but it was plear that he was congregating a large party around aim. Hy astopt itg that loose and wide system of policy, every Member of unfee4 z.. Jews who was able td pay his foot in g in that House, would be who adhered attraote4 towards him. One half of the party to him were imesoess.ed with the conviction that the .moment he came into power the otinse half would be thrown overboard.— ( Much laughter.) They were ne s sleubt *Of indebted to the Hight Hon. Baronet for some measures of rewu. It teas he who had brought about Catholic Emancipatio n and' the gefoire Bill ; het he had done so by calling into existence the Cathelic Association, and Swing, and Captain Rock.—( Hear.), He (Mr. Buller) would prefer carrying on reform by a much less dangerous machinery. Ha thought it would be better done by Ministers who would stand in tio r+ff of popular opinion, who would sympathize with the feelirgs of the people, and who would proceed on improved priociples of THE SUN, LONDON, SATURUAY, JUNE 5, 1841. `,""_ Government, and voluntarily effect that reform which, in the former case, had been derived to the public by the means of coercion. It was for those reasona that he would, by voting against the resositien of the Right Hon. Baronet, support the continuance in office of the present Ministry to the exclusion of those who wcu!si be substituted in their place —(Cliceis.) Lord DUNGANNON supported the policy of the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth. The lion. and Learned Gentleman, who had just sat dawn, had endeavoured with some ingenuity, to bolster up the cause of her Majesty's Ministers. If Ministers were so confident that they would have the people with them, why were they so slow to appeal to the country ? At almost every election which had taken place since the commencement of the present Ses sion, was not the Government party defeated—was not every vacancy filled up with a Conservative Member ? and yet common sense was to be outraged by the assertion that Mi nisters possessed the confidence of the country. The Govern ment were ready, on any principles whatever, to keep their place, even on principles which twelve months ago they stigma tised as insane. The Hon. Members for Lincoln had declared their intention of voting in favour of the continuance in office of Ministers, one of whose vital measures they had on a late occasion censured. How was such a course reconcileable with common sense ? How could they vote for men who had involved the country in those very evils of which they corre plained ? He believed the last hour of Ministers was nearly come, and that they would shortly have to vacate those seats on which they bad never carried on the Government with the strength they ought to have done. He trusted they would be succeeded by those who, whatever might be the success of their efforts, would be at least honest iu their intention to benefit the country.—( Hear, hear. ) Sir HARRY VERNEY denied that any lion. Gentle man on the other side was justified in throwing upon the sup porters of the Government the imputation that they supported them, not from a conviction of the propriety of their meae sures, but for party purposes.—( Hear, hear.) He thought, if the Noble Lord who had just sat down had heard the answer to it which was given by the Hots. Member for Lin colnshire (Mr. Handley), he would not so soon have repeated the imputation.--( Hear, hear.) He did not think the late election at Nottingham was an index of the public mind, for it was currently reported that the Hon. Member for that place had been sent down expressly by the Conservative Club, from the funds of which institution it was said the expenses of that election were defrayed. If this were the case, he did not think there could be anything more disreputable to Hon. Gentlemen opposite.—( Hear, hear.) He had always been a consistent supporter of the present Government, and was not afraid to meet his constituents. How could he sufficiently ex press his gratitude to the Noble Lord (J. Russell) and the Go vernment for the benefits they had conferred upon the coun try, by the manner in which, notwithstanding all the obstacles in their way, they had carried out the new Poor-lax Bill.— How much was the country indebted to them for amend ments in the criminal law ? Could it be said that they had neglected the interests of the Church? He believed that the present Government had been the best friends of the Church, and that the agricultural interest, and the Church, who were their most bitter opponents, had received from them not only great benefits, but the greatest they could receive. Could it be said they had neglected our colonial in terests ? Had our Indian administration been neglected ? Was any accusation brought against their foreign policy ? What reason, then, was there that he should withdraw his con fidence from the present Government ?—( Hear, hear.) More over, there were several important measures pending between this country and foreign Powers, which he thought it was absolutely necessary should be concluded by the Noble Lord. He was at a loss to know what part of the administration would be benefited by the accession of Hon. Gentlemen opposite, and he should therefore vote against the resolution of the Right Hon. Gentleman.—( Hear, hear. ) Colonel SIBTHORP said that as one having property in the county of Lincoln, he felt himself called upon to express his surprise at what had fallen from a Noble Lord and an Hon. Member who represented that county. He had often heard with delight the declarations made by those Gentlemen in favour of the present Corn-laws, the main-spring of the prosperity of the country. The opinions they had stated in the present debate, were not the opinions entertained by the great majority of the constituency of Lincoln. Tell him the company you kept, and he would tell what you were. Her Majesty's Government, of whom it was known that he (Coionel Sib thorp) had a very bad opinion, were about to receive the votes of Members, who saw them bring forward measures inimical to the interests of the country ; and that was, he would repeat, a subject to him of regret and surprise. With regard to the general question, he had always looked upon the financial duties of a Ministry, as the most im portant they had to perform. Now what could be said of a Government like the present, which, arriving at power had found a large amount of revenue over the expenditure, and yet were now leaving behind them a deficiency of fully 6,000,000/. ? And yet that was the Government which had promised a diminution of the national burdens, and measures which would increase the public prosperity !—( Hear, hear.) He saw the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the image of patience ; but he would venture to say that the Right Hon. Gentleman would soon be brought to regret the course he had followed. The Ministry had only retained office by cunning, shuffling, and subtlety, which could scarcely be exceeded by the devil himself. They had brought forward the Poor.law Bill, a measure most unjust and iniquitous ; and they had needlessly lavished the public money for party purposes. Now, when a Government was guilty of such con duct, was there not the strongest reason for saying that they were undeserving of any confidence ? Why, if they had not the unwarrantable assurance to hold office in defiance of public opinion, they would have long since consulted the good of the people, and the dignity of the Crown, by resigning power in favour of men more competent by their integrity, their talents, their assiduity, and their fidelity to administer the affairs of the country at a period when those qualities a ere so indispensable- He had lately calculated the salaries of certain members of the Government ; and he found that three Secre taries of State—the Secretary for the Colonies, the Secretary for the Home Department, and the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, received among them 131. 3s. Hid. per day.—(Hear, hear.) And yet many a poor man was consigned to a Bastile because he had been visited with misfortunes after a long life of labour. Again, he found that ten Ministers had for the last ten years received the sum of 500,0001. ; the Chancellor of the Exchequer having received 50,0001., and other members of the Government similar sums. That was the amount merely of their salaries. Now, he would consent to give them a fair quarter's allowance if they would of their own voluntary act come over to that side of the House and give up the Government, and that he thought a very li beral offer—( A laugh)—but they were too fond of sticking to their places to accept it ; but ere long the vote of the House would compel them to resign, anti he thoui,ht he could not give a vote more satisfactory to the country than that he should give in favour of this motion. Mr. HAWES did not feel himself called upon to offer to the House any lengthened observations on the speech of the Honourable and Gallant Gentleman who had just sat down. It was merely a parody of the speech made many years since by the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Pembroke en the subject of the Salaries of the Privy Councillors, and he would leave it to that Right Honourable Gentleman. But to answer an argument which he (Mr. Hawes) considered as un worthy of being addressed to a British House of Commons.— ( Cheers.) He certainly had been astonished at hearing the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman say that the speech of the lion. Member for Liskeard had merely dealt in general charges against the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth, for a speech more full of accurate historical details—a speech more replete with particular and specific charges, it had never fallen to his (Mr. Hawes') lot to hear, and he only regretted that the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth had not been present in the House to do justice to the arguments of his lion. Friend.—(Cheers.) If historical precedents were to be referred to to determine the course that Ministers ought to take, he thought that speech should bo con sidered as having settled the question. But he denied that any Ministry since the passing of the Reform Bill could be bound by any precedents which had occurred previous to the enactment of that great measure. The Right Hon. Baronet bad founded his argument on the cases of Sir Robert Walpole and Mr. Pitt. He (11r. Hanes) .denied that those prece dents were at all in point, and he doubted whether any States man ought to be guided by precedent in such cases, but that their conduct must be founded upon the peculiar circumstances of each ease.—( Hear, hear.) He remembered a speech which the Right Honourable Baronet had made soon after the passing of the Reform Bill, in which he said that the ordi nary tactics of party must be given up as no longer available under the change which had been introduced into the repre sentative system ; and why so ? Because under the old system they had the nomination boroughs; but it was the public opinion, expressed out of doors, and the independent party, which must now determine the Ministerial position. No one had more clearly elucidated that point than his Hon. Friend in the speech which he had made some time ago, and the only plan to be adopted was to be guided by the best informasion that could be acquired as to the state of public opinion out of doors, and on that found their policy with reference to the questions that had been brought before the House by her Majesty's Ministers ; they had the strongest indications of public opinion derived from public meetings, held in the face of day, and in the open air, that men of:all parties were united to seek commercial free dom. From the indications presented by those meetings the state of public opinion might be gathered, and by that the pulley of Ministers ought to be guided. The Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Pembroke had referred to many mea sures which had been brought forward by the Government, and had been subsequently modified by the House, and from that he had di awn a conclusion that the Ministers did not pos sess the confid nee of the House. Some of his references, however, had been singularly infelicitous. He had wholly overlooked the vote of last Session, and in going back for a period of ten years he had referred to some measures which told most unfortunately for his argument.—' Hear, hear. ) The Right Honourable Baronet 'had referred to the English Tithe Bill, and ho said that the Opposi tion was entitled to all the credit of that measure, because without their support it could not have been carried. Bus he had surely forgotten that the English Tithe Bill, brought forward by the Eight Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth, was altogether void of that principle which formed the principal and best feature of the present law. Then, with regard to the Irish Tithe Bill. The Right Hon. Gentleman had made great complaint because it no longer contained the appropriation principle, on which he said the present Govern ment had determined to stand or fall. He (Mr. Hawes) still retained his hthissnoipignuirr improprietywithregardtfortohme the e in i c t ip ig l h e l b H u o t n t . he G e e h n a t r l g e e . Gentle man, acting, as he did, with the Noble Lord the Member for North clause h Lancashire, ofthe ri s h T who em pz i a g l h i t t i , e b s e ß call edill. i h t a h t e c l h a e u r s o e o w f a sa the 4 s l7th direct a violation of Church property as the Appropriation Bill. That 147th clause appropriwted to other purposes the surplus of Church property derived from the commutation of leases, and. yet the Noble Lord thought it fitting to vituperate her Majesty's Government for having given up the Appropriation clause, when he himself had been compelled to give up the 147th clause; and language as strong had on that occasion been epplied to the Noble Lord by those amongst whom he was then siding, at hod since been applied by himself to his former col leagues, and he heti been guilty of at much tergiver sation in giving up the Manse a* those whom he now accused. The Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth had designated that clause as dangerous to the safety of pro perty. In cases of this sort it was impossible for a Ministry to ha gpided except by the public opinion, and never had that opinion been so strongly exprs ssed as it had been in favour of a change in our commercial pctlioy. Ministers had been charged with having brought forward this measure merely for the purpose of keeping their places. The same charge had beep *tight forward against them by the Hon. Member for Ripon, when they introdeced the Reform Bill. The fact was, that the eireunistencee of the onuntry were such, that they were under the necessity o f p ro p os i ng either additional taxation or an alteration in the tariff. The lion, Member for Kilmarnock had said that he (Mr. Hawes) had I found fault with the foreign policy of the Ministry, He hart neyer said one word on the foreign policy of the Minis try, and fie eheehl net allude to it, as he agreed entirely with the Hon. Member for Liseeerd. put when the lion. Member for Kilmarnock imputed to him a desire to P4 l l dovqi the Church because he upheld the voluntary principle, he must say theta more irrelevant charge had never been made; seeing as he did the success of the voluntary principle in the Dissenting and the Catholic Churches, he thought it more calculated to ' st l resigthen the Church than the comptilsory principle ad vocated by *gentlein'en opposite. I F Right, Hon Baronet had a'so taken great credit 'tis the other side for upholding this Assembly of Jamaica, on th e oc c as i on of the Jamaica Bill. Now, the Right Hen. Baronet hail then stated that he merely wished te reserve a locus 'musicales to : that Assembly ; hitt that, if they were to disobey the Imperial Parliament, he should then he prepared to support the measure. If the financial deficiency was the ground of the present motion, it ought to he brought forward earlier. With regard to the Postage Bill, he would be perfectly ready to repeat his vote, even in the present state of the finances, because he felt con vinced that a r vision of the tariff would increase the revenue, as ILA only to make good that deficiency, but to enable Ministers to reduce many taxes which now pressed heaVily on the industry of the country. Throughout the whole of the debate it had never been attempted to be shown that by a revision of the tariff the proposed revenue could not be raised, and the Right Hon. Baronet throughout his speech cautiously al,staineid from contesting in the slightest degree the calcula tions of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. With regard to the duty on corn the question was not so much as to the amount of revenue to be raised from the duty, as to whether it would not give such a etimulns to trade as would cause an immense in crease in the Customs revenue. Did Gentlemen opposite mean to say that the calculations ofthe Chancellor of the Exchequer were erroneous? and if they were not, what could be the meaning of their opposition, except a desire to get office, when they might perhaps, the next day bring forward measures of a precisely similar nature ? The Ministers had adopted plain and intel ligible, and had brought forward, measures calculated to confer a tangible benefit on all classes of the people. The opposition to those measures was based upon no intelligible principles. With regard to the sugar duties, they did not say at once, we will receive no slave-produce. With regard to the Corn-laws, the Right Hou. Gentleman said he would pledge himself to the sliding scale, and wished it to go forth to the farmers of England that he would adhere to the present scale, but he would not pledge himself not to intro duce any alteration fatal to the principle of that scale. The Right Hon. Baronet, whilst he acknowledged that the prosperity of the country was based upon the manufacturing interest, meant to disappoint that great interest on this occa sion, and would do nothing whatsoever for that great and suf fering class, which, he contended would be reciprocally com bined' with the agricultural interest, when there was the best opportunity of benefiting it. The Right Hon. Baronet had declared that he would adhere to the slidin scale. They knew not the principle upon which he opposed them; all that they could understand was, that he was struggling for place._ ( Hear, hear.) On their part it was a struggle to unfetter in dustry—it was a struggle for food and wages—for that inde pendence and comfort amongst the great masses of the people, which would add strength to the nation and glory to the throne. He (Mr. Hawes) rejoiced that they had to look to the leader ship of the Noble Lord in this great struggle.—(Hear, hear. ) They confided the cause of the people to him with perfect confidence.—(Hear, hear.) He had not shrunk from a clear and plain avowal of his principles. They knew well what they were supporting, and his past conduct assured them that their support would not be misplaced.—( Hear. ) The various meetings which had taken place throughout the country, including Liverpool, Manchester. Glasgow, and Edin burgh, and the opinions there expressed, fully justified her Majesty's Ministers in the course which they were pursuing. If the flight Hon. Baronet should succeed in defeating their measures, there was a feeling out of doors which would not let the matter rest with a division in that House.—(Hear, hear.) Opposition to such measures would be fatal to his popularity.— ( Hear, hear.) They (the Opposition) had long been leaning upon the Poor-law agitation ; they were beginning to lean upon their new allies, the Chartists, by tampering with their passions. When wise measures were propounded, which had no party object, and which would be beneficial to all parties, the time was designated as unfitted to the calm discussion of the question. By such conduct they would lay the foundation :or the agitation of other subjects, and bind together men who had not hitherto united in a straggle not merely for commer cial but for political measures.—( Hear.) He challenged Hon. Gentlemen opposite to state the time when any great reduction of commercial duties had been effected and had not been fol lowed by the greatest possible benefits.--( Hear.) Reference had been made to the time of Sir Robert Walpole. He would venture to say that the 20 years subsequent to the alterations then made in the commercial system of this country were marked by the greatest prosperity. So also in the time of Mr. Pitt, and afterwards of Mr. Huskisson, there was most unequi vocal evidence that the same results had followed a similar po licy. He felt convinced, therefore, that the measures were right in principle. They had got to hear from Hon. Gentle men opposite on what principle they resisted these changes. If they could show that they were likely to be injurious to the coun try, there would then be some ground for concluding that it was not a mere question of party politics.—(Hear, hear.) The policy proposed by the Government was based upon experi ence ; the principles had been tried—the results were known ; and he regretted that the measures proposed should he the sub ject of a struggle which would at once be prejudicial to the authority of the House, and injurious to the best interests of the country. Lord STANLEY said he had observed of late, in the course of these protracted debates, that it was a favourable amen that they were approaching to a conclusion of it, when the Right Hon. Gentleman the Vice-President of the Board of Trade moved the adjournment of the debate, and com menced that of the succeeding night at five o'clock ; and hav ing that evening perceived that happy omen, he hailed that Hon. Gentleman as the harbinger of the good tidings that they were about to close that discussion.—( Hear, hear.) But before they did so, he was anxious to address a few words to the House in explanation of the grounds on which he was prepared most cordially to support the motion of his Right Hon. Friend. He confessed that if anything could surprise him on the part of her Majesty's Ministers it would be the course which they had taken. The narrow, and, as it seemed to him, the unseemly ground which they had occupied in re sisting the proposition of his Right Hon. Friend the Member for Tamworth.—( Hear, hear.) That proposition divided it self into two points—the first that which he should have con sidered, and that which in any other times would have been considered, the main and the substantive object of discussion and debate; the second, that which in any other times would have been a mere truism, results as a corollary from the asser tion of the first proposition. What was the first pro position of his Right Honourable Friend? That her Majesty's Ministers did not sufficiently possess the confidence of that House to enable them to carry through that House measures which they believed to be essen tial to the public welfare. In what manner had that been met ? Had it been met as a Government strong in the con viction of its own right—strong in the conviction of its own good cause—strong in the support of that House—strong in the support of the people--would have met a proposition so directly condemnatory of their whole conduct and pro ceedings as a Government? Why he would imagine that if the Government did nut meet it with a resolution avowing the confidence of Parliament and of the country in the measures they had adopted, at least they would have taken the bold line of denying • distinctly and at once that they did not possess the confidence of that House and of the country, that they would have told them that their measures and their prin ciples had been so plain and straightforward, that they had at all times so distinctly avowed their intentions, that if they did not sti 1 retain the confidence of the House, that it was by no change of conduct on their part, but by vaccillation, which they had no right to expect, on the part of the people of Eng land. They would have told them that the principle which they laid down on their accession to office, they had strenu ously and steadily persevered in maintaining; that they had firmly adhered to what they believed to be right—that they had steadfastly and constantly resisted that which they felt in their consciencies to be wrong, and upon that ground. upon the declaration—the clear, manly declaration of their principles—the clearness with which they had asserted them, the steadfastness with which they had acted upon them, the firmness and the success with which they had vindicated them, any Government worthy the name of a Government, would have met the proposition of his Right Honourable Friend.— (Loud Cheers.) And now how had these Ministers—for he would hardly say this Government—( Cheers from the Opposition)— how had these Ministers met the proposition of his Right Hon. Friend ? Why, with faint and feeble oppo ition, and at last with a hesitating and reluctant admission of the truth of the proposition.—( Hear, hear.) True it was, that the Right Hon. Gentleman, whom he did not see in his place, the Presi dent of the Board of Control—true it was, that the Right Honourable Gentleman, in an early period of that debate, did venture on a hesitating defence that her Majesty's Government were not quite so bad as his Right Hon. Friend (Sir R. Peel) had asserted. He did produce a certain number of measures, which in the last five or six years they had succeeded in carrying through the House. True it was he said " we have been defeated on many occa sions ; on more than one occasion we have been forced to abandon our measures—on more than one occasion we have been compelled to modify ethers ; we have received the a :g -gestions, we have received the corrections, we have deferred to the commands of those who, upon the other benches, dictate to us what course we should pursue ; but some measures we have carried—don't deny to us that some measures we have been able to carry since that period of 1835 down to the present time." And what said his Right Hon. Friend ( Sir J. Graham) to demolish the argument of his Right Hun. Friend opposite? The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite went through those mea sures seriatim. He enumerated the whole of them, and his Right Hon. Friend the Member for Pembroke, following him, showed that there was not one of those measures upon which he had nit received the support of his political opponents. Not one of all the measures which the Hon. Gentleman had enu merated—not one upon which upon the introduction, upon the second reading, or upon the third reading, was a single division taken by his political opponent ; with the single exception, he granted, of the Municipal Corporation Bill for Ireland, which at last was passed, by the Right Honourable Gentleman op posite adopting the franchise which was insisted upon by that side of the House. But, said the Right Hon. Gentle man who had spoken that evening, the Vice-President of the Board of Trade, " What blame can you attach to us if all our measures have been so perfect and so pure that they com manded the respect and the support of our opponents ?" The argument was a plausible one, but would it bear examination? What, if they should have borrowed those measures from their opponents themselves? Whet if they were not their measures? W hat if they were measures which belonged to the Government of Earl Grey—which belonged to the Government of Sir R. Peel—which were adopted by them (the Ministers) and passed by them with the support and assistance—aye, and almost in every case, with modifications concurred in by them, of those measures which, by taking from their predecessors, they adopted as their own, and now claimed the merit of pass ing.—( Hear.) He spoke then of legislative measures and of legislative measures only. His Right Hon. Friend went through the whole of these measures, and he (Lord Stanley) would not weary the House by adverting individually to each of those points, to which he had alluded, and upon none of which he had met with an answer from the Right Hon. Gen tleman opposite. But there was one point which his Right Hon. Friend had omitted. He proved distinctly and clearly that her Majesty's Government bad never succeeded in carry ing a measure without the consent of their political opponents —that many measures which they had attempted to carry, they had been compelled to a ba n don without COWlllig to a division, and that upon others they had been defeated. But he had omitted to state that the Government did not command the confidence of those who called themselves their supporters, and that not half a dozen but twenty times in the course of live years they had been compelled in their resistance of mea sures brought forward by their OWTI supporters to call in the assistance of their political opponents.—(hear , hear.) Would the House permit him, without going back to an earlier period than the Scssion of 1838, to call its attention to the conduct of the Government in referrence to the Ballot? In 1838 the Pallet was not an open question. The Government declared that as a Government they would oppose its adoption. In 1838 the Hon. Member for London brought forward his mo, thin for introducing the Vote by Ballot. The Government opposed it. The Noble Lord addressed the house in opposition to that motion, and when they came to the debate upon the motion, which was resisted by the whole strength of Go vernment, the following was the result of that division : In favour of Mr. Grote's motion, ayes, 198—noes, 315. Now how much did her Majesty's 111inisters contribute from their own supporters to that? Why, the ayes exclusively consisted of those supporters who were about to vote confidence in her Majesty's Government, and who looked to the Noble Lord as their leader and guide, the ayes to make up that number; of 19:3, including 16 persons holding office, produced just 65 Members.—(Loud cheers.) While of the 315 who had ileieatod the 198 supporters of the Government—thereby aiisistiog the Cieveroment--out of thatuunaber the Conserva tive party furnished 250, I n 1839, Mr. O'Connell, on the 28th of February, m ove d to bring in a MU to assimilate the franchise of Ireland to that, of England. When a division was come to on that subject the ayes in,favour of the motion were 92, arid the noes against the motion were 155, of which, her Majitlty's Government, including '4l gentlemen in of ice, NfiTlishfA 4% and the Goli se ivatives 106,—(Loud cheers, ) On th e March the Honourable Member for Kilk e n n y move d f or leave to bring in a Bill to Amend the Reform Act. That was resisted by the Govern. ment. The Hen. Member for Kilkenny brought fifty gentle men to vote with him ; the motion, however, was negatived by a majority of 85, and of that number the Conservatives produced 56 gentlemen, while the Government produced only .29. On the 4th of June, 1839, the Hon. Baronet the Mem ber for Preston brought in a Bill to alter the voters for counties. The Hon. Baronet had 81 votes; the noes were 272; of that number the Government produced 39, while their Conserva tive opponents produced 168.—(Cheers.) In the two sessions of Parliament that had just expired, he had produced four in stances in which the result had happened which he had stated, from which, if the Conservative party had remained passive, the Government would have been defeated by their own sup porters. He brought this fore ard as the last of three circum stances marking the great command of influence and power which the Government possessed in the House of Commons. He would spare the House the trouble of hearing all the de tails, because the Noble Lord the :secretary for Ireland had frankly confessed that, as to the first part of the proposition, they had not the confidence of the House, so far as to enable them to carry their measures into effect.—(Hear.) Was ever such an admission, he would ask, made by a Government be fore? Supposing that his Right Hon. Friend had brought this proposition forward, that the Government did not pos sess the confidence of the House sufficiently to enable them to carry their own measures, what., he would ask, would have been the situation of such a Government in any other time if it had been carried? Would not that have been taken as a decision that the Government were not worthy of conducting the business of the country ?—(Hear'. ) To the astonishment, however, of himself, and, he had no doubt, of the country, under such circumstances the Noble Lord, admitting the first proposition, found it convenient to demur to the second, and to state that, though they had not the confidence of the House, it did not follow necessarily that they should resign.—( Hear.) Au far as he thought the proposition weak, so he thought the arguments by which it was maintained, were the most extraor dinary he had ever heard.—(Hear, hear.) He never expected to Lear from a Whig Administration such arguments as he had heard from the President of the Board of Controul, and the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary at War. What said the President of the Board of Control? Why, he stated that it was not their duty to resign, though they did not possess the confidence of the House, or carry their measures ; it was not their duty to resign because they did possess the favour of the Crown—( Great cheering)—and, that no doubt might be enter tained, the Right Hon. Gentleman followed up this declaration with the following observations—" which, let me tell you, is the best support any Minister can have."—( Cheers. ) Those were the words that fell from a Whig Minister—words that fell from one who was at one time the ardent and zealous de fender of the people's rights—such were the doctrines which he had put forth to the Commons eif Great Britain. He (Lord Stanley) knew not whether that Right Hon. Gentleman was in his place or not ; if he was, he would tell him that there could, in his judgment, be no higher responsibility , or a graver offence than that of a Minister attempting to whisper such a docrine in the ear of a Sovereign.- - (Cheers.) He would tell him that of the personal favour of Crown they knew nothing in that House. Deep as was the crime of the Minister, who fancying that he possessed that fa• vour, presumed to use it for party interests, deeper still was his guilt who dared to use the name of his Sovereign to over awe the discussions and to fetter the free exercise of the ex pressions of the Representatives of the people.—( Great cheer ing.) Another argument that had been used by another Cabinet Minister, the Secretary at War,• was that it mattered little whether Government were enabled to carry their mea sures so long as they met with no censure from the House for their administration of the law. Never, he believed, was such a fatal doctrine put forward, for its effect would be completely to overthrow the power of the House of Commons over any Minister, and would leave the administration of the affairs of the country in the Crown, and the Crown alone. He (Lord Stanley) had heard this doctrine proceed nom the Right Hon. Gentleman with great astonishment, but he was in some measure relieved when he found that that doctrine rested with the Right Hon. Gentleman himself, and that he had brought forward no authorities for it. He asked the Right Hon. Gentleman to follow up his doctrine, and tell him when, in the history of this country, a Minister had not been displaced by a vote of want of confidence. A vote of censure was the highest test of the disapprobation of the House of Commons of the conduct of the Ministry. The Right Hon. Baronet the President of the Board of Control had gone on to say that a single defeat was no ground for a Minister leaving office. Was this, he (Lord Stanley) would ask, the case of a single defeat? Was it not the fourth, the fifth, the sixth—he could not tell how many times they had been defeated.— ( Hear, hear.) They had boasted of the quietness of Jamaica. If Jamaica was tranquil, it was because her Ma jesty's Ministers had not been enabled to carry forward the measures which they contemplated with respect to that country. If the Church was tranquil, it was because the Ministers could not carry their measures on that subject. If the national at stem of education was not altered, it was be cause the Government had not been enabled to carry their measures on that subject. Much had been said with respect to Sir Robert Walpole, and the course which he had pursued during his Administration had been brought forward as a pre cedent. Now, he (Lord Stanley) had looked back to the history of Sir Robert Walpole. Sir Robert Walpole had en joyed the confidence of the House of Commons and the Lords for a long period. He had administered the affairs of the country for a length of time unexampled, but the period arrived when he lost that confidence, and he then suf fered himself to be overborne in his own Cabinet.—( Hear.) He permitted himself to be led into measures, and became re sponsible for them, which he himself disapproved of. He plunged the country not into civil strife, but civil war. Why did he do this? Why, at the entreaty of his Sovereign. He did this in obedience to the passions of people out of doors, which had been excited by those.who sat in the same Cabinet with himself.—(Great cheering.) And from the moment he thus unwisely yielded, the power of Sir Robert Walpole was gone—the place remained but the authority was gone. Divided councils brought inefficient actions. Feebleness succeeded to energy, and the result was ignominious concession and compromises. The hour of defeat came at last, and after a long life of useful service, the power of Sir Robert palpole, which he might have resigned with dignity, was wrested from him by a majority of the House of Commons, and he fell less respected and less regretted, because he fell too late and too reluctantly.—(Great. cheering.) He (Lord Stanley) could not but think that there might be at least one Minister at the present day who might look upon the past history of Sir Robert Walpole as a matter of deep reflection for him self, for he would most assuredly find that he would be placed in the same situation, because he had repeated the faults whish had been committed by Sir Robert Walpole. But the Right Hon. Gentleman the Judge Advocate took new grounds, and asked them had not the Crown the power of dis • solving Parliament ? and he said there was the alternative of dissolution or resignation, and the question was whether they should or should not dissolve the Parliament. With all re spect to the Right Hon. Gentleman, that was not the ques tion before the House—it was a question which, according, to the Constitution, never ought to be mooted in that House. No doubt the Crown had the power—no one disputed that that power formed one of the prerogatives of the Crown, one which that House had no right and no desire to meddle with, although he felt persuaded that gentlemen on that (the Tory) side of the House did not deprecate a dissolution.— He believed that the country at large were anxiously awaiting a dissolution, which would enable them to relieve themselves, by their own exertions, from an Administration which had long crippled their exertions.—(Cheers.) But it was a ques tion with which that House had nothing to do. If such a step were taken it must be taken upon the responsibility of the advisers of the Crown, and they were at all times responsible to a futuro Parliament.—(Cheers.) He would ask what it was they sought for in a dissolution— w h a t was t h ere to justify such a step—he did not shrink from or dep reca t e th e measure, but the country had a right to know, and would ask, under what circumstances and for what purposes the Govern ment advised the Sovereign to dissolve the Parliament ? No doubt they would say it was for the purpose of carrying the alteration in the operation of the duties on corn, timber, and sugar; one part of the scheme they had already abandoned, and on another they confidently anticipated a defeat. In what position was the country placed by such conduct? Did they take these measures up for the purpose of making the motion of the vast machine of State work more easy, or did they propose by them to bring the two Houses of Legislature into greater harmony? It was none of these—because at that moment the two Houses were perfectly in accordance with each other. But should the Government, unexpectedly even to themselves, succeed in their endeavours, and obtain a trifling majority of one or two, the happy result of their agitation, charged as they were with the operations of the Government, they would have created difficulties for themselves and placed two accordant parts of the Legislature in direct hostility. But there was one object to be gained—it was a desperate effort by agitation and excitement, an effort which the good sense of the people would repudiate and visit with signal failure—it was an attempt to prop up a tottering Government.—( Cheers. ) But Members of that House had no right to suppose a disso lution approaching; they were bound to discuss measures as if they were assured that the House would sit the whole period allowed by this Constitution, For what reason was it that ever since the passing of the Septennial Act no one Parliament had been allowed to sit the whole period of time ?—it was for a very wise purpose that Members of that House should not carry on their discussions under the fear of appearing before their const tuents, that they might legislate for the good of the people, and not waste the time of the public and make laws under the immediate fear of appearing on the hustings. If they did not act indep en d en tl y of any such fear, they did not legislate but degraded themselves into agitators. In 1807 Mr. Canning in a debate let fall an expression intimating that shortly after that debate the House would probably be dissolved. Was this acquiesced in by the Whigs of that day? No. Lord Henry Petty, now Lord Landsdowne, indignantly repudiated such tin eatening and unconstitutional language, and hoped the constitutional man liness of the House would not be influenced or intimidated by it. What did Lord,Howick say?—not his Noble Friend whom he saw opposite—( Laughter)—but Lord Grey, whom not one of the Hon. Gentleman opposite dared say was with them when the division was go.ngion ; he suggested that if the original motion were lost it might be necessary for the House to address the Throne in order to meet the threat, and it was equally deprecated by Mr. Whitbread. That was the way such a threat as that now held out was met in 1807. But he would ask them were they about to dissolve Parliament, for if so, then they had no right to carry on their discussions under that menace. They were bound to assume that they would not be dissolved, but if it was so then they were placed in such a situation as no Minister of the Crown had any right to put them, for they wer e b r i ng i ng f orward great questions, not in the hope of passing them into laws, but because they were about forthwith to appeal to the people. Now he would say that it was most unconstitutional to discuss such measures under such a threat. It had been • said, a few nights ago, that he (Lord Stanley) was an unworthy pupil of the late Mr. Huskisson—that was a name which Hon. Gentle. men were fond of quoting, when it answered their purpose, but what did he say on this very subject ? On the 18th April, 1826, Mr. Whitbread, or Mr. Whitmore, was about to bring on a motion to "consider the present state of the Corn-laws." Mr. Husaisson said " his purpose in rising was to persuade the House, if possible, not to engage in the discussion on such an occasion, for it must terminate in embarrassment. If th re was any one question more than another which ought not to be discussed on the eve of a general election, it was the Corn-laws." Such was the opinion of Mr. Huskissou against the policy and prudence of introducing a discussion on the Corn-laws on the eve of a general election ; but what would he say if it were done with a view to its being the very pivot on which the election hung ?—(Loud cheers.) What would he have said if, in connection with the consideration attached to the Corn laws, and their influence upon wages and the well-being of the humbler classes,—what would he have seid, if it were proposed to combine with it the existence of a Government of one of the two great parties which divided that country?—( Cheers. ) That would make the agitation tenfold; and yet under such circumstances an address had been put into his hands, and he would read to the House the calm and temperate tone in which they were appealed to on the eve of a general election. (The Noble Lord here read some extracts from an address calling on the people to support the proposition of Ministers.) That appeal was addressed to the constituency now represented by the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies, the leader of that House.—( Great cheering.) He was far from thinking for a moment that the Noble Lord had anything to do with it. He should Ise insulting the good taste and feeling of the Noble Lord if he had thought him guilty of such a production as that ; but he had brought it forward to indicate the degree of calmness and deliberation, and the excited popular feelings, under which the House itf Commons - was called on to deliberate on one of the most exciting and interesting questions. Before he sat down he wished to address a few words to the Hon. Gentlemen who professing, and sincerely he believed, great regard for the agri cultural interest of the country, formed part of that unfortu nate clese designated by the supporters of her Majesty's Govern ment, the grinders of the poor and monopolists. —( Hear, hear. ) Gentlemen who went to the country not on any defined arid general pienciple, but simply and plainly on this question, would they not do away with the various monopolies.—( Minis terial cheers.) They were going then to induce the consti tuencies of the country to return such a House of Commons as would effectually put down the great interests v, hich thesis Hon. Members were pleased to call monopolies, and of which that with which the landowners were connected was the first, the greatest, and the most atrocious.—(Hear, hear.) That was then the question upon which they were about to go to the country. It was upon that that the Ministry were seek ing the support and countenance of the present House of Commons. 'f he Noble Lord the Member for Lincolnshire had asked how could he refuse to vote confidence in a Go vernment when he entirely concurred in the measures they had careied, and those they had abandoned. The Noble Lord added that he was going to vote confidence in them, because next week they were going to bring forward the important measure on which they rested the whole fate of the Govern ment.— (Cries of "100, no.") He really did not understand them ,*but he thought they had risked their seats upon the failure of these measures. They certainly had not risked them on the question of the sugar duties.—(Renewed cheers. ) Well, then, he would say that the measure which they con sidered the most important was to be brought forward next week, and the Noble Lord would not vote a want of confidence in them because he was convinced of this, that however loudly they talked, and however much they pledged them selves to pretending to bring it forward, he knew they had not the power to carry it. The argument was certainly a singular one.—( Hear, hear.) He had lately seen in one of the papers supporting the measures of the Government, and supposed to be one of its organs, a statement that, after all, the motion of his Right Hon. Friend might be an advantage to the Govern ment—that its failure might give them time to organize the constituencies—to excite the people, and to make preparations, in consequence of which, upon a dissolution, they would have a better chance of defeatist; the agricultural interests. —(Loud cheers.) He did not think they would venture to take the course recommended by their organ. Suppose the House was equally divided, and that the fate of the motion depended on two to three votes, and that these were the three votes of the three Members of the most agricultural county in England, he would put it to the consideration of these lion. Gentlemen whether their vote in favour of the Government on the pre sent occasion would be balanced by their vote against them on the Corn-laws.—(Cheers.) The matter of the accusation brought against him (Lord Stanley) by the Hon. Gentleman— whereas, in the year 1834, he had declined to form a part in the Administration of the Right Hon. Member for Tamworth, from his not having confidence in the measures which the Right Hun. Baronet might propose, and that he had declared that he would not, therefore, take on himself a share of the official responsibility ; and whereas, he (Lord Stanley) had made that statement, he nevertheless, was prepared to offer his most cordial concurrence in all political questions emanat ing from the Right Hon Baronet, and to take upon himself his humble share in whatever responsibility was to come—the charge of inconsisteney involved in that accusation he (Lord Stanley) did not think it worth his while to refute. He would prefer submitting entirely to the weight of the accusation. But although it might be, as it really was to him (Lord Stanley) a matter of the greatest indifference whether the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Handley) wrote him-• self down a Tory or any thing else, he - (Lord Stanley) must say that it startled him to hear from the Hon. Gentleman, at a time when he was talking about inconsistency, belying the whole course of his previous life—( Opposit ion cheers)—by now writing himself down a Whig. He (Lord Stanley) believed there was no doubt that, whatever the Hon. Gentleman's opi nions might be now, from the year 1820 to 1826, the had not the least hesitation in writing himself down a Tory. The Hon. Gentleman, if he (Lord Stanley) was not 'very much mistaken, was one of the warmest supporters of Lord Liver pool. In 1825 the Hon. Gentleman gave his vote in opposi sition to a motion even to inquire into the justice of the Roman Catholic claims. At a subsequent period, at a time when the Hon. Gentleman was not in Parliament, when a ground of complaint which he had against the administration of his (Lord Stanley's) Right Honourable Friend and the Duke of Wellington was, that they had conceded Catholic Emancipation ; and it was not till Earl Grey came to the head of affairs that the Honourable Gentleman became a consistent Whig.—( Conservative cheers.) It was proved that the Hon. Gentleman was every constant supporter of Lord Grey's, as he was of Lord Liverpool's Administration. When his (Lord Stanley's) Right Hon. Friend came into office, if he was not mistaken, the Hon. Gentleman consulted him as to the course he ought to take on that occasion, as he (Mr. Handley) did not like to give a refusal to the supporters of the Right Hon. Baronet. Although he (Lord Stanley) could not claim to himself the honour of having long retained the office of adviser to the Hon. Gentleman—( Cheers and laughter from the Opposition)—he found that either according to his advice, or to his own inclination, the Hon. Gentleman voted in favour of Mr. Manners Sutton against the Speaker proposed by the other side. But Government were subse quently put in a minority, and thus lost the support of the Hon. Gentleman.—(Cheers and laughter from the Opposition) and from that time to the present he (Lord Stanley) was ready to admit the Hon. Gentleman had been as steady a supporter of Lord Melbourne's Administration as he was previously of the Administration of the Earls Grey and Liverpool. The Hon. -Member for Shropshire said that great statesmen were at times constrained to be guilty of great inconsistencies ; and if great statesmen were guilty of great inconsistencies, he (Lord Stanley) thought that they ought to have great mercy upon those who, at an humble distance, followed in their steps.—( Cheers and laughter.) The Hon. Gentle man should abstain from.making those personal charges, more especially as he was so subject himself to be retorted on. The Hon. Gentleman had been pleased to ask his (Lord Stanley's) Right Hon. Friend; what answer he should give to the farmers of Lincoln, and what would be his future policy in the Govern ment of the country, stating at the same time that the farmers were extremely alarmed at that policy. He (Lord Stanley) was inclined to think that when the Hon. Gentleman met the farmers of Lincoln, he would have quite enough to do in answer ing for himself, without taking on himself the somewhat superfluous task of answering for others. Now, I.e (Lord Stanley) thought Government had no right at all to ex pect that his Right Hon. Friend should state in detail what his course would be in the possible event of his being charged with official responsibility. He (Lord Stanley) recollected that Mr. Tierny, a great Whig authority, used always to say that the duty of an Opposition was very light—that it was to oppose to everything, to propose nothing, and to turn out the Government. That was the political creed of Mr. Tierny as to the duty of an Opposition; and now he (Lord Stanley) must say that if ever there was an Opposition which had gone out of its way to depart from that course—if ever there was an Opposition which hesitated to embarrass the Government in the measures they brought forward, if ever there was an Opposition which' had not acted factiously, but had given their best advice in suggesting alterations and improvements, and carrying such modifications as would insure to their measures the legislative sanction of the other House, it was the Opposition that sat opposite the Noble Lord. But he must say, although they had not been a factious Opposition, although they had endea voured to perform their duties by giving, without reference to Opposition, their best support to such measures of the Government as were well founded, yett there was: a time when the duty of forbearance in he Opposition became a crime against the people of Eng land. There was a time when the measures of their iniquities were full.—( Cheers.) There was a time when, if they no longer took the voice of friendly warning, they must receive stronger hints, and forbearance must be at an end and he had every hope that the House of Commons had come to that limit of forbearance, as he had no doubt whatever that the people of England already had.—(Cheers.) Lord .I..HN RUSSELL said that he considered it his duty to wait till a late period of the debate, in order that he might hear the various al egations which would be brought forward—the various charges which would be ad duced in support of the motion of the Right Hon. Baronet. He (Lord John Russell) must say, that admitting the great ability and eloquence with which that motion was supported admitting the very great numbers who were likely in the divi sion to give their assent to it, yet that that motion lay in the spirit of the Constitution—that that motion was founded in real merit, he (Lord J. Russell) did not believe,—(Cheers. ) The Noble Lord (Lord Stanley) in part of a sentence had said that the time was come fur that House to get rid of an Adminis tration which had too long crippled the energies of the country, Now, that was the proper charge to bring against the present Administration. If they had brought forward the charge— if they had supported it by argument—that the present Admini stration had crippled the energies of the country, he sleauld be the last person to deny that the confidence of the House ought to be withdrawn from such a Ministry, and that no preroga tive of the Crown, ne favour of the Sovereign, ought to pro tect them from that want of confidence.—(('heers.) But where bad the energies of the country been crippled?—( Loud cheers.) Had it. been in the Mediterranean ?—( Cheers. ) Had they been wanting in supporting their ally the Sovereign of the Turkish empire?—(Cheers.) Had it been in India or in any part of the East ?—( Cheers.) Had the energies of the country been crippled when her Majesty's Representative was r insulted, confined, and outraged in the territories of the Em peror of China ?—(Cheers. ) He asked had the energies of the countries been crippled in either asserting our policy or in vindicating the wr .ngs which the country had sustained ? With respect to our colonial possessions, had the energies of the people been crippled in suppressing the insurrection in Ca nada? In all points of our colonial possessions were they not now increased in strength, and more firmly attached to this country than before ?—( Cheers.) Was it at home that the energies of the country had been crippled ?—(Cheers.) Had insurrection and Insubordination gained head, and had the powers of the law been found unequal to their task in feeble hands ? (Cheers. ) With respect to Ireland, so long a source of com plaint and of violent discussion in that House, it had been their anxious effort to conciliate the minds of the people of that part ef the lit ited Kinedom to the Crown of this country, and was it in Ireland that they had lost the afrections of that generous people ?—( Che 'rs. ) Then he said, how was the Noble Lord to suite his charge against them that they had crippled the energies of the country ?—(Cheers. ) And during the whole abate, neither he (Lord etanley) nor any other man of the Opposition, had been able to prove a single charge.— ( Loud cheers.) He (Lord John Russell) was obliged to go back, but he hoped he should not be obliged to do so at great length, after the argument of his Right Hon. Friend ( Sir J. C. Hobhouse) en the first night of the debate—but he was obliged to go back to the constitutional argument put for ward by the Right lion. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) when he brought tosward his resolution. The general argument,as he (Lord J. Russell) understood it, was that, a Ministry which did not sufficiently possess the confidence of the Hou,e of Commons to enable them to carry through the House measures which they deemed of essential Importance to the public wel fare, ought not to continue in office ; and that continuance in office under such circumstances was at variance with the spirit of the Constitution. The Right. Hon. Gentleman then, after giving some instances, stated that such was the case with the present Ministry, and that, therefore, their continuance in office was at variance with the spirit of the Constitution. Now with regard to the precedents which the Right Hon. Gentle man bad brought forward to prove his general proposition, it was remarkable that there was hardly an instance which he mi ntioned that at all bore out the argument he wished to sup port—for it had so happened that until very late times it had not been the case that a Ministry who were not able to carry through that House legislative measures, had thought their continuance in office after such defeats was at all incom patible with the spirit of the Constitution.—(Cheers.) His Right Hon. Friend ( Sir J. C. Hobhouse) had quoted the instance of the Administration of 1717, which was defeated on the Peerage Bill; of Sir Robert Walpole, who was defeated on the Excise Bill ; of Mr. Pitt, who was defeated on the Fortifica tion resolution, in which he declared that the fortification of the dockyards was necessary for the safety of the country ; and of Lord Liverpool, who was defeated on the property tax. These statements completely contradicted those of the Right Won. Baronet. With respect to measures generally, it was necessary that a Ministry should be able to carry all they deemed important. But then the Right Honourable Gen tleman said there was the case of Lord North. What was the ca.e of Lord North ? It was Lord North's Administration that was condemned by the House. His ad ministraf oki of the powers of tie country in a war against our colonies in America, and the House came to a resolution that fter losing thirteen colonies, after an immense expendituie of blood and treasure, that offensive war ought no longer guet jo t: I be continued, and they afterwards carried out the motion, and affirmed that any one would bean enemy to his King andyeen, try who should advise the King to carry on the war ; W as I that a question of legislation?—(Loud such as whether the period of the Pcor-law Commission should be reduced from ten years to five ?—( Cheers.) There was no question that that Administration managed the re- E VEN ING EDITION sources of the country upon bad principles , and nitif the utmost confus'on and waste, and which , or teen colonies--but it was co fessed that theie.a,e troughac.iot in the discomfiture of the Que.( n's forces and the loss ward was one totally different and fou ided to% principles; but then the Hight Ilcuourable Gentlema n a _ a a aware that this was a ease in which a contest was anait!t . _ .. "; by a Minister of the 'Crown against a majority of the Hour in which during a considerable period of time a nnal" the House declared that the (Minister of the Crown was e „ worthy ref their confidence. Yet this Minister contisVt in office. Now with regard to the general principle on WI - n oti , much had been said in the course of the discussion, he a t , f assented to it, arid he certainly did rot hear the PresideaL.. the Board of Control say anything different. The Right r; Gentleman said that the case of Mr. Pitt, in f l oo d was a peculiar case, because in that case Mr. Fox come sin of the manner in which the Administration came into T s _ that Administration having been charged with secret I,llo'lle d thir ence, and that the Ministry was created in consequence " au , destruction of the former Administration by that secret inu mit ence. Now that, so far as it went, was a true statement( a ' ro at that time there was another question in dispute betf!,a Mr. Fox and Mr. Pitt, namely, the great question of the I ; i i Bill. Mr. Fox maintained that he had formed his do . on the true principles of the Constitution, while Mr. Pit t r i a Glared or ared that it would establish a fourth estate and be utte destructive oft hat Constitution. Now was it on that Or: or that it depended whether Mr. Pitt should remain in Z eit ed not? Alter Mr. Pitt proposed his measure he was di on the question for going into Committee by a major it yßill, House. But it was held that% the loss of the In to though the great measure of Mr. Pitt's admilis t riar, was not sufficient ground for his resigning office ; did n g Fox deny that doctrine ? No. Mr, Fox, so far from off" alt, it, affirmed a doctrine exactly opposite. —( Loud cheers.) ' iv Pitt remained in office, having lost his Bill, and Mr. Ft' s e° t he curved in opinion that the loss of that Bill was no reason'," the resignation of office by Mr. Pitt. Yet they ha u eso l ie Vice-President of the Pitt Club proposin this 1. the tion ; and a Gentleman who said he maintaine d , principles of Mr. Fox supporting it.—( Loud cbeer n ' e tia That was a doctrine which both of these Statesmen :, have altogether repudiated if th e y h a d h ear d it propounde d ' the (Hear, hear.) But the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, o f Member for Exeter, said it was quite true that in the an t _ %a , ao the loss of Mr. Pitt's Fortification Bill, and again, in the t of 'Lord Liverpool's Property. tax, those Ministers W ereli pt called upon to resign, although they had failed in their att vo 0 to carry these measu res , merely because there was evident l y 4 other Ministry at the time to succeed them. But the presie"te resolution said nothi ng o f th a t. Th e reso l ut i on was an ah°o.. resolution, which sa id th a t t h e " cont i nuance of a t nisters in office, under such circumstances, wa s his his variance with the s pi r it o f th e C onst i tut i on. Now, ' h as opinion, the resolutioniought to contain s ome parenthesis's" 0 ,, that appended to the resolution of the Noble Lord the , her fir Liverpool on the sugar duties, in which the r esolet t e f was saved by the words " especially when a ce rt a in anVe n T ha sugar was likely to be introduced into the country- his Right Hoe. Baronet in a similar way should have added to proposition, " especially w h ere there are other Gen tle- 0 a perfectly able and perfectly willing--(Heir s hear , t i e laughter)—to succeed them." H e h o p e d that eo Right Hon. Baronet, in order to make his resolution nor with the admission of the Hon. and Learned Member l a Exeter, and with the course of Parliamentary.precedents ,%o h e s d prudently amend his resolution in that sense. What he r ded stated regarded the general tenure of the resolution as rag a fie f the constitutional precedents; and it appeared to bil oo , what he had alleged, and atter the arguments of his Righ t t - so Friend, that there could be nothing more clear than ths ( sta far from agreeing with the spirit of the Constitution, therere• lution itself would affirm an entirely new precedent, a P r is e er dent which, as he would go on to show, would be Ileitr fo r vote for that House to adopt, nor would it be an examP f e t he any future Ministry, who regarded the welfare „ eta country, to follow.—( Hear, hear. ) Now, let `l to , consider what had been the course of the Con ° i s tion of late years ; because he supposed there aa ., no one who would not admit that a change of e ircumstan ee ' ot that a different course of legisl a tio n had of late taken li a l' th e and that although the form of the Constitutio n remaine u ro o , same, yet the mode in which it was to be c arriel t h a t from time to time. Now, if the House w ould corsider el ho had been the course of public affairs in the last century' o f a thought they would see that that which was th en required eee Ministry supposed a very differe n t t as k, an d, at the 97 ,e a time, a much less difficult one than that which was it n r k to upon any Ministry at the present day. If they looked h ac t e t a the course of that debate, they would find that it was n ° bed course of their Administration they had been discussing- - " o f not been a charge of crippling the resources of the coann:) , "; ola having involved the country in any dangerous o r un necessar,, d n ot or having exposed it to an insurrection whi c h they C O suppress, but it had been that certain measures brought Parliament for its approval had not met with the suPP" t he the House. Now if they looked back to the history ed greatest statesmen of this country—of those who had alUO to . most power and influence, and whose names were mos t t he spected and looked up to as illustrated by their genius,f (ir direction of affairs—if they looked to the history of Sir if the/ Walpole, of Lord Chatham, of Mr. Pitt, and Mr. Fox---- .hat looked to the careers of these great men, and examined wh o were the legislative measures which they had recomm en yer y and carried through Parliament, they would have a the y meagre return indeed.—( Hear, hear.) It was not that e , did not answer all that was required of the m in their Inn iec t it ;vas not that they were not fully equal to the cidn" se a, of affairs according to the different principles they p rOPS that but that the usage of the Constitution did not then requir e , sot s those at the head of the Administration should brim, fors ward legislative measures, and for the most part during the la century it even required that they should take a uniPe rni Of either in supporting or rejecting legislative measures- the late years, however, and especially since the passing m f ales Reform Act, the country and the Constitution required a:j,e ferent course of conduct. What with the necesaity for legs tion—what with the wish of carrying Bills through that H u :4e on the part of individual Members—what with the g"" t ita:i changes which were so long delayed until the passing i t' Reform Act, and which were required very suddenllly y an' great number—for all these diflerent reasons, it was gener a t and usually expected that the Members of the Governinee, should bring forward Bills , upon subjects exciting public at a te l e on, and that they should do their best to forward th os e 0 ,, through Parliament. But while that was the case, he in e say that he did not think that they could at the same tar/e re :l' quire that general and uniform support from the alou' e a ,a Commons which had been refused f or Mi n i sters, who ''', merely to defend their administrative act s . Wh en a afinist t "; in possession of all the necessary infor ma ti on, stated h i s rse o to the House of Commons, the House sh ou ld e i t h er g ive 3,4 their confidence, or deprive him of it in such a manner , ' ll 4 by such tokens, that he could not be mistaken when lie lost it. But with respect to measures relating to legislait ° %- with respect to measures, for instance, r e l a ti ng to tithe' , r o t lating to the criminal law or a Poor-law—with respect f t : o , - or any of these subjects, and others of a s i m il ar ki n d, the 3 ' ao . ; bers of the House might support a Ministry to a c ertain i i gree, but he did not think that th e y wou ld ever at ei that entire confidence which mi g h t b e g iven.; administrative measures. Therefore, if thea, ; y es' upon the one hand that new duties h a d b een i m ps aa“,nait' Ministers, they must on the other h an d ma k e ( 11 " „ase; allowance fur the effects of discu ss i on an d o f ilelibera t a ° a e lf first, on the part of Members, and th en on t h e par t of '7 a constituency. As the Right Hon. Baronet had brough t • ward this motion, founded e nti re l y upon t h e fa il ure of l 'o'b ar lative lative measures, he should ask th e Ri g h t Hon. Barone t be were the measures passed du r i ng hi s administration? l'ff-00- ( Lord John Russell) kn e w o f none, an d as the Bit - hese Gentleman the M e mb er f or Pembroke had referred to these measures in a spirit of unusual virulence, he should al° some allusion to the measures adopted, and the defea t '' s.' oa tained, while they w ere both Members of an Adrnioistrs%, which,whatever el s e mi g ht b e sa id o f i t, di d not want a very e°''ae derable majority during a great:part of as career in that Hous e- a : 0 1, meant the Admiaistration of which Earl Grey with Lord Althorp for its leader in that House. With resP i e t c . ' a bt the first of those Administrations, that with which the ",i ' lo l Hon. Baronet, the Member for Tarnworth, was connect e "'a a should observe that. when he (Lord John Russell) prolli a te Repeal of the Test and Corporation Acts, the Righi eti Gentlemen opposed the motion, which, however, was c a l a j ar by a majority of upwards of 40.—( Hear, hear.) But dal. say one say that the Right Hon. Baronet should resign consequence cf that, or did the Right Hon. Baronet ° m e) i )e , puraose to do so? Far from it. 'the Right Hon. (4 . ' bute was at the head, man expressed, on the contrary, his willingness to emit° ps' to the best of his power to carry the measure into effect- s top the discomfiture of the Right Hon. Gentleman did ne t a ll , there, because, when the measure was next brought fe rW Old the Right Hon. Gentleman declared that he looked ueeli act as founded on bigot r y, i n t o i era , ce, or the relic of times 01 ;d , gious persecuti o n, a n d as one which should therefore be reP e e On that questi o n th e Ri g ht H on . G ent l eman had been °Pi au a, s 4 to him (Lord J. Russell). Ile did not divide, but he l e t ' io o' House in the possession of himself, an humble individual - 0 10 her ; and when the vote had been carried against the_A bred Hon. Baronet in his absence, his excuse was that he na",,,,roa out of the House to take some refreshment—(Chee o / are' that hal taken place under a strong Adininistratol (Cheers)—arid not a weak or an imbecile one.—( Ch eer !, ear '. laughter.) What hail been the great measure of the nea" f iaca Now, it had so happened that in the year 1627 the Rigi ll a t ot os, ls Baronet had spoken o n th e su bj ect of the relief of t h e Lilt& Catholics from the disabilities under which they then ia l s n; ad' and he had then stated th a t suc h a measure was one mitted of no doubt, a compromise, because it was incor o P - 3 0" with the maintenance of the Constitution, and .the welt 3 rc t i l t' safety of the Church.—( Hear, hear.) :Yes, • I t. 1,0 ltigt Honourable Baronet had brought fotaaar" fitly very measure, stating, at the same time, met and candidly, that it was the meas re of his orn ie 'si not his own —(Cheers)—and the only reas on l ie hail aa a; 1 be', passing that measure at that time, which had not e:o' f ; e aao'" fore, was, that there exist e d la rge bodies cf persons lan it a itte: caugregated together in Irel an d, an d t h at b e t h reat s at e traces those bodies had controlled the Administration, et,: tesi the Duke of Wellington w as th e h ea d, a measure sat ic " themselves had previously declared to be incompatible oee the welfare and safety of the Church, and with the inai n reik' ll of the Constitution—(Loud cheers)--and all that t hat' place under a strong Government. On that measure t'''' ar tsrl Government bad-been opposed by halt. their usual 'ter, t at, in a manner—and opposed in a m anner t h e most %iricjitawr-; acrimonious —(Cheers)—and yet they had obtained majorities, from the attendan c e and support given to tiIL the Opposition during the whole time.—( Loud cheer , . / that a circumstance altogether new ? The „ 0 0 1 Lord who had just sat d own h a d not then' • of the contemptible state to which an Adrein''', th,'; had been reduced, he had not expressed Isis amazeinet,t,',".ipir a t i conduct, or complained of thei r ac ti ng contrary.to of the Constitution ; and yet such were the accusal 1 00 "'url against the present Administration, because on some fir Os of infinitely less importance they had done ssecasiona;;39.a". which had been done by the Right Hon. Baronet in ; (Loud cheers.) Then came the Administration ° La h a %, Lord Grey was the head. One of the first things ".","„ occurred to that Administration had been their defe'laa l loilai proposition for an alteration in the timber duties by 311 i"7 of -16 ; other measures respecting the budget had be e i t i ja aet' o ," drawn by that Administration. In the next y that Administration had an overwhelming n ta d;',a ‘t f "„ ' t, that House, the party who were now 'bringaabole t ward the present motion did not in that 111 , 1 amount to more than from 120 to 140, yet Parliament the Ministry were more than once dt" e n tailaa ( Cheers. ) Qn the questi o n o f th e ma l t tax , for '", - 1 : 0 1 ~ after being dated on a di v i s i on , Lad Althorp'had ae o , or t House to rescind th a t reso l ut i on and on t h a t oee,a': 8. ( ,e O „ 5 Right Hun. Baron e t the Member for Tama-mall 3 tr fairly and handsomely come down to the House to 53Prk,*. Ministry, and had lent the authority of his name to House to rescind t h at reso l ut i on. —(Cheers. ) But ait, enlel Hon. Baronet th e M em b er for Pembroke had ne t ' ' s r aloft surprise—(Ch eers )— the No b le Lord the M ein bes Ie t, an d Lancashi r e h a d net t h en b ee n 'struck with ,zeo cn neither of them had then expressed their or'ation tha generosity had never before been seen. —0 ,oOd cheer , s l ";,ifas e ' r that was not the only instance. The lv.oble Lord au re _ a s (Lord J. Russell) 1 of the opposition tail been pasties to anothe r . a q e :( , l 4 l which had been materist. l .y Inadified in s e nt-Wed, forward the ti' arc h Temporalities Bill, the Nob le a t ion It had met with. In Load ', ha t a he the 'tight on jest grounds, laid down the proll oa es, the amount realised by the commutation of Chur ch it:valve not the property of the church, but of the State'" t he °t red But whets they found the Bill was not likely to t he House of Parliament, if it contained such a lar n alt while, moreover, it met in that House great olaraave it ' Noble Lord proposed to withdraw the clause. he b L