The Sun. — London, England, 1819-06-24 00:00:00

tl eo • hits was -very extraordidary end a very no- Precedented -power ; indeed it might be deemed ail I t h constittitional act. The punishment 7; 1 for this violation of the power of the Commis :toners was tot a lly unprecedented. If, for in tit4nee, an offence was committed in Cornwall, L ie perso n so offending might he sent to Eilin uttr gh le Castle. The Right Hon. Membe r not °nl9 condemned the grant, hut the exercise of ! 11e lt extraordinary powers. Bat it bad not been .11 , the contemplation of the framers albeit femoes elapse that a case might arise in welch the heads `? those who had the management of the semi" - were bound not to reveal certain documents r egulations left by the founders of these Insti -I"tions. Thi s was t h e case of St. John's College, 4, ''"f•ord. When persons who came before the I';'°,ffraissioners under •siteli circemstanceS were o ind by oath not to dividee what were consi ,lltred as o ffi cial documents, the Bill had nor pro - \r Well for such an alternative. A similar case had tiecurred at Eton College, where their statutes had peen refused the inspection of the Commissioners. ~isaPPointed in this attempt, application was ' 4d e to the Museum for copies of the statutes, Vehich were obtained and prioted. The following 11 ",, e stions p asse d a f ter t he printing of the statutes `R•,‘el• to the Rev. Peter Hind—" Are the statutes A E tat) College o p en to public inspection ? No re , l vY ptinted No.—Have. you seen a copy le ( nem printed from documents in the British 4altiseum ? Yes. They are incomplete !"—(Hear, earT ~ te near publish such papers might he l eh e ' it very improper ; but, if published at ail, te Y Ought certainly to have been done in a cur (l;e•t f° t ll l—in a form simple and u n adorned. But i 's did not satisfy Gentlemen. To these printed m it e teinen ts were added auttotatimie of consitleia. l a c l e ngth,givittg any thing but a fair represen- fails i n. e n If, however, the statutes. which were i n Ise. lareti were published, they ought to have ap iih„ were published, any ennotations or marginal read tilt's) tendin g to pervert the senee and mea .ing of e ° Fieital institutors. But another extraordi arY part of the con duct of the Commirees could tint b e passed over in silence. In June ISIS, Par. w as dis so l ve d, consequently the powers of lii• ti the Committee were dissolved also. Not. 1-i standie g the authority of the Committee i„ ) a t s t hus completely annulled, the Chairman, and Sti I ,4 "t " II IY witli the consent of that Committee, i, f ' e '• , l l a letter to be sent, dated from the House ter e:orumous the. 10' of July, about a mouth ate l i r , t he dissolution of Path +mem, trarked by t e r : t'sr " l i • ue tetormation to the said _thattaolotti,e , mmittee which had been tbe ilisselution of Perliament —respecting . 4 . ‘ : l ( t tdticati oti avid manageinent of certain schools. "'her lett er eves sent by the same unauthorized • thnrit Y, slated troth the same piece, and about )1, - i ", tn e date, with a request to the same effect. — • letter was signed i George ham," one • h e Cloks of the House of Common:, But, of t , c , p "tettled with these violations of the tisiiee 144, ""liarnent, 'here was a third letztr, in time rs , e of the present Session, dated the 29th p n '' ~ 1819, by order of the same worthy ~0 1• man, stating in substance—" It would be ee 1 n ", err iht; a essential obligation to favour me ji)ii :a every information in your power on the i ti f o n “ f ed . cation adopted by you, addine to yonr st te -11114 tion a st a tement of the number of chil attentline the &Imlay schools." As the pe w , the Committee hail not been renewed 1, th t: . filament they were acting without any an rineel'Y' anrl, consequently, had fee over-rated the , r . t er s Wanted to them.. In allusion to the eon -111:i Of the Ho n . M em b e r, he (Mr . Peel) said to : the H on. M em b er h ad ma d e use o f S t . Bees 1./_ ° ° l to assist in his electioneer tig adventure. (Mr. Peel) did not pretend to say but that these but the might arise from mistaken motives. buc t i'ell %vete so extraordinary as to demand public a r sLe • He offered these observations on the q u o . C e „ ," of rectitude, without attributing to any t h a " f i letnars improper causes. He bad thus di._ tiretssed liis duty ; was telly persuaded that the lo s "mat -tees now brought forward a most dan e,ero . r es _ e, recedent ; and, so far as lie was inte br.7t, 11 as *k Member of Parliament, he entered his stu • -agAtost it.—(l-lean, bear !) p re T • Brownie eer confessed himself totally no th, I P ", r , e d for th e so dd en an d unexpected attack of s Ack u ght lion. Gen Liman. But he was not at e "l'ine, but the Gentlemen whose confi seee , lead had the honour of enjoying, and who en - ° - Oper a t e d w i t h hi m in that Committee so vier" e mokinned by lie Right Hon. Gentleman, e t all at once brotight before the public tribu. 1, I ° answe r f or t h eir con d uct . —(H ear , b ear !) Ilt e , " !„ h owever, somewhat unfair, that the Right fle en '"enLlemers had chosen the absence of his 11 16 I of the Committee to make his assault on ttio r character. They were extraordinary charges, ':flealled for by the motion now before them, was met ely the ehird reading 'of the of ti Ile had heard much of the irregularities House, and be himself conteseed that t ut uttle instanc e s he might have been irregular ; 1),4 during the time he had sat in that House. he t utu ° ever witnessed so irregular, if not so wan td ~ "0 ,1 so unprovoked an attack. But surround , itti r t he was with di ffi culties of vast magstitede, ,loprepared as he was for the combat, be f ore U tlOt . resist the chall. ne s e, He would on e his to Opposition to every ohstecle, enter on his ,„frtit won. h e ref used to meet the fi ght eoce b utt, rion. Gentleman, the .Public wou l d attri litre " to tear. it would he immediately Said, it it_ ate serious charges mole by a steady man— of business—a man of the first information 4 ,_:, ( 1 ( 1 ) ) brings forward un ties, dates, and every; l"! c ity which can apparently corroborate facts. ce'p ltle 7 b e not met, and met with courage and ‘ r oultl Y eqeal to the defence, most observers Re conclude that they were unanswerable. Rt e itt _ t . h o er,ef?re hoped for the patient indul vi4di'e t the House, while he encleavotieed to Wee, a t t t e s h imself, not forgetting, in some de nte , le aspersions attempted to be thrown the en with whom lie had acted ail Ito :1 1 :, e o i t , L . ` . ) ! I : t ti t ' itte e• He (Mr. Brougham) had 01, thethatt lie would prove to the _tut o le louse, that lie WEIS right, and tio ". l `::f u tts ra. l ) l limitable Gentleman was wrong. g t 1, 101 1: le Member then went into an __lirough the . vind i cation of his. conduct, tracing it very n . ' , lSt and present Parliament. The " % li t* if not the seco6tl night of the present Session, he hdd intimated his intention to move for the revival of the. Committee, with the usual powers. It was Within the recollection of the House, that on the very same night a Right Honourable Gentleman (\lr. Canning) gave no tice, in the absence of a Colleague, that it was the intention of his Noble Friend (Lord Castle- . . reagh) to submit to the I-louse a motion of a specific nature regarding the Charitable' Institu tions for the purposes of Education, and which might entirely supersede the proposition which he (Mr. Brougham) had in view. The result coo firmed this announcement. Some time after, when the arrangement had been matured,down came the Right Hon. Gent. to silence hint (Mr. Brougham} by a proposition for the appointment of a Com mittee. He (Mr. Brougham) then manfully and openly stated his objections. So much for the delay. '1 he Honourable Member then entered into a minute examination and criticism of the various assertions and argumems advanced by the Right lion. Gentleman ; and, in order to refute them, dwelt on their nstnre and tendency for a considerable time. lie ridictiled the pnlicy of postponing the attack ill nearly the close of the Session; when the Right Hon. Membor had many opportunities dining their numerous sit tings _to have gratified his wishes. When he saw what he had termed an inroad, an invasion, of the rights aod pr vileges of Westminster—of Eton— ot the Charter-house—be (Mr. Brougham) was astonish , d that he had not come forward., It was the Gentlemen of Winchester who had pleaded the obligation of their oath ; those of Eaton had done no such thing, hut hart fully answered every question, and allowed extracts to be made trout the statutes. As to the Committee havingeon tinued to exercise their power for some time after the dissolution of Parliament, he contended that was the regular practice at the close of each Session.: it that practic , were not adopt ed. and papers printed during the recess, it would he impossible to send forth the emir- MOll6 mass of Parliamentary documents produced. As to time letter which he had been charged with sending in his capacity of Chairman of the Com mittre, atter the Committee bad ceased to exist, it could not have been taken in that light. It had be.'n written, not as Chairman, but in his indivi dual capacity, requesting time Parochial Clergy, if convenient, to favour him .vith infoimation re specting time number of children educated in un endowed seminaries. That was not the language of a (Main:lan, who generally had hut two Par liame.mtH-y ways of expressing himself, either '' it is ordef4d," or " yon are requited." He apologized tO the House for detaining them so long, as he had done it only on compulsion, for he had been complete , y taken by surprise on heariog the unexpected charee brought against him and the Memuers of the Committee. It he had omitted noticing any point, he would gladly recur to it when his physical powers should be less e\hanste(4, for he challenged the most minute enquiry into all the proceedings of the Com mittee. Mr. SHELDON was a Member of the Committee, and defended its conduct as well as that of its Chairman (Mr. Brongliam), which be considered to have been perfectly proper in all points. MI V FITzGEtt ALD complained of the tone and manner in which the Hon. and Learned Gentle man had replied to the speech of his Right Hon. Friend (Mt. Peri). He contended that no other portnnity had offered itself before the present to enable his Ris!ht Hon. Friend •to make the statement which he had now made. He main tained, !hat atter the intention expressed by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman to attend this night in order to propose an alteration in the Bill, and after his own publications on - the subject, that Hon and Learned Gentleman could not complain of baying been taken by surprise. He then de fended at considerable length the statements of his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Peel), and combated the arguments brought lomat"l against them He was of opinion that the Hon. and 4iirned Gentleman had by no means justified hilliselt for havtlig exercised the authority of the Committee, atter the Committee had ceased to exist, rind writ ten a letter calling for information which he no longer had a right to demand. • Mr. F. DOUGLAS lamented the turn which the discussion had taken ; it was not, however, to be attributed to his side of the House. He contend ed, that if his Hon. and Learned Friend had dis played less indignation, he would not have done Justice to himself ; but the Right_Hon. Gentleman opposite had not the same excuse. What had called for his speech—a speech of violence and -acrimony's Certainly not that with which his Hon. and Learned Friend had introdnced his atuendmunt, for it was one of the most temperate ever tittered in Parliament. But the Right Hon. Gentleman seemed to have come down with a dia tribe long prepared. With respect to the conduct of his Hon. and Learned in the Chair, it had been marked by the greatest moderation and impar tiality that he bad witnessed in the Chairman of any Committee. Lord CssTeettesGts acknowledged, that nothing which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had said in his opening speech, was of a nature to excite the displeasure of his Right Hon. Friend behind. That Hon. and Learned Gentleman had in fact admitted, with a degree of moderation and candour which did him credit, that peculation and abuse did not form the characteristics of all the charitable Institutions of the country, and that his Majesty's Government were not disposed to screen anuses. But it could not be totally forgotten that he had made widely different representations last year, and cast the most severe imputations both on the .Mi nisters and the Chatities themselves. He was not sot prised, therefore, that his Right Hon. Friend should have suffered his feelings to be roused by what had passed .before, connected as he was with the Universities. With respect to the limit of the, inquiry, he thought it ought so be ob structed by no consideration of the attendant ex pence. 'The public mind ought to be satisfied that the charitable funds were applied as origi nally intended by the donors; but they would deceive themselves and those they represented if they were to hold out an expectation that the public could ever be repaid from the funds the charge which might thus be created. The annu a l expence might be 18 or 20,0001. and the total amount must depend on the number of years through which. the inquiry might be continued. jle, however, thought the money would be well laid olst anti he wiener] the House to make up its Mind, as be did, to throw the expence on the public. it was hard that he should now have to defend a clause introduced last year by the lion. and Learned Gentleman himst.lf. He thought, though the clause he referred to was not Stich as, left wholly to himself, the Honourable and Learn ed Gentleman won,ld have proposed, yet, had it heen very immot al or dangerous, he would nut have become its author ; and the circumstances under which he had at first thought it expedient to bring it forward st:11 existed in all tl.eir.ori ginal force. lie showed that the Court of Chancery, though it had taken upon itself to en quire into the administration of funds, where that duty had not been given to some other body, hail never gone the length of acting such a part where the do or who had the ri4itt of controlling the property as he thought fir, had appointed spe cial vilitors. The present Bill he thought an improvement on the Bill of last Session, and he would abide by the provision which the Honour able and Learned Grortleman lt.;1 then recom mended, and he hoped' the House would do the 5a Me. Mr. PEEL, as some personal allusions had been !w oe t o him, was desirous of beir , indulged with permission to offer an explanation. The Ho nourable and Learned Gentleman had announced it to be his intention to make a motion, on which he ( I .lr. Peel) had intended to speak, and he .sop posed it was by accident that he bad sat down without doing so. He hafted, however, if not strictly in order, in the peculiar situation in which he stood, he might be permitted-to proceed. Mr. SMITH spoke to order.—As no new ques tion was before the Howe, h e c on c e ived the Right Hon. Gentleman had no right to speak again. Mr. BROUGHAM thought he might have misled the Right Hon. Gentleman. To gain an oppot tnnity of making a second speech he had inteud ed offering a motion to the House, but had omitted to do so. He was then ready to wake it, to give the Right lion. Gentleman the right of speaking. Lord CAsTLEREAGH sail, the Bill could be read a third time, and then a new question would »rise, on which his Right Hon. Friend could spe k. The SPRAKER had not called on the Hon., and Learned Geetleinan, for his motion could not then be received. If the Bill • were now read a third lime, the whole subject would amain he open to discussion when the new clauses should be prophet), which the House knew were to be moved. Atter a few words from Mr.V. FITZGERALD, the 13111 was reed a third time. Mr. BROUGHAM. then moved a clause, which went on an application from the Trustees of Cha eikeble l e etitetions, to g , ve the Master of the Rolls or the Vice Chancellor the power of •mak ing an order in certain CHSCS which should be final, enless the party agetieved made an appeal within a limited period to the House of Lords. Mr. PEEL said; he wished on the present occa sion to confine what he lied to say to that which was necessary for his own vindication. The charges brought against him by the flononreble and Learned Gentleman, and by the Honourable Gentleman, were not consistent with each other, es while the former said the bill of indictment, which he was pleased to call it, which he had prefer red against the Committee, had been prepared with the assistance of his friends, who were ready to sup port it : the latter considered it to be such a character, that it was impossible for it to be countenanced on either side of the House. It was complained, that to accuse 'the Committee as he bad done was unfair and tincandid in that House; He had thought it would be regarded as any thing but candid and fair if be had not said what he had to say in that 1-louse rather tliau out of it. He retained,, after all that lie bad heard, the sentiments with which he had entered it, and derived satieraetiou from the reflection that he had done his duty. It was complained thet he had not sooner objected to those proceedings on the. part of the Committee of which he disapprov ed, instead of waiting till two or three years had passed since the appointment of the Committee. He then, from a reference to the dates of the re ports which had been matte, combined with other.' circumstances, showed that in four instances out of five, where he had complained of the Committee, he had had no opportunity of doing so before the present 'Session. He might, to be sure, have made a distinct motion on the subject early in the Session, but the same circemstance wit kit had in duced the Hon. and Learned Gentleman to put off his motion, had inclined hint (Mr. Peel) to abstain from taking such a step, namely, the no tice given by his Noble Friend of the present Bill. He might further be allowed to remark, that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had been absent during a great part of the present Session, and with what reason might he not have complained had the subject been brought forward in Iris ab sence ? If he bad waited till the Hon. and Learned Gentleman could be present, let it riot be imputed to him that he had purposely lurked with his complaints till some of the Acts which were the subjects of them had been, merged io Notwithstanding his disclaimer had been alleady rejected, he would repeat it, he imputed Ito itn proper motives to the Committee, but be thought they had exceeded their powers. T. the question which had been put in the Committee to Dr. Wood and to two other Gentlemen of Cambridge respecting the use which might be made of the Patron's influence, and the rumours that might he afloat on the subject, be certainly objected. thought it would have been infinitely. better had those questions, and the insinuations con nected with them, been spared altogether. fle dirt not deny that he might feel a romantic attach ment to the University of Cambridge. He was tinder ohligetionstothatthriversity,whichmadeit a sacred duty, it the Committee had exceeded their powers, to defend it from unmerited attacks. Par from thinking; it a charge against hint that he did so, he should feel that tie might justly be charged with a dereliction of duty, if in such a case lie were to avoid stepping forward in behalf of the University with which he was so intimateli connected. With respect to the twteletters which bad been serAten as from t ofmnitteq a ia:llnt ,en prorogned, .he was described to have Leld very strong langnage.. He had been represented by the lion. and Learned Gentleman to say, that this A'tl3 treason to 11:e Constitution" and a "scandalous act." He had used no such word', but witnessing the accumulation of those acts to which he could not but object, be thought it right to,call the atten tion of the House to them, as it had appeared to hin► that they might be drawn into a - dangurous prece dent. The Committee had no tight to sent) ters (their subject's were Comparatively unitnpor. rant), round a - month alter the prorogation of Pad . ;Ament. BUt this be had, after all, only viewed as an inadvertency. He also disapproved of the manner it which the S!attnes of Eton, and Winchester bad been required. On a view of the hole ease, he regretted wit the he ,b,id taken on ihe present occasion, denied that it vrtis at all connected With pariy feelings, and assured the 1-loose, that than this there . was no charge atm he! shonld be more anxious to repel. Mr. liaouGnAm understood a charge to have been preferred against the Committee for calling for the Winchester and Eto-tatntes,in con- temp of an oath they had taken. The NVioches ter Fellows urged their oath, mud their stwotes were not p►oduced. The Eton Statutes had been produced, as no Snell oath had been Wien tht.re. Air. PEEL. had ►►►rant to make the charge sop. posed, as he ontlertood ►he oath taken at 'Wm chester was also taken at Eton, ghat the Soitotts should not be produced but to those connected with the Institution. Mr. BROUGHAM ~ f fered some further remarks in vindication Or tie Committee. _ _. 1111.. ‘Vir BEnrorcE thought what bfld been stat ed by the Eight Hon. GeutletnAti d d riot cnm• pletelyinsilty hint tor not sooner giving .nine 11)- 111111111011 of the chtirtze he tovant to bring 4g4init the Committee The coor<<• of i:xnutiopition 05- ,leered to, like the examinations to tshich %vita nesses were subjected to in the Courts of Law, might at first seem a subject of just complaint, but, rightly considered, the one would weigh as lit le against the solid advantages of this inquiry, as the other did against the impartial administra tion of justice : he strongly c Wed upon the [louse, by tf)e regard they haul for their own cha racter, to make the inTiiry as complete as possible. SmY'rn (of Cambridge) was not di.posed to object to the state of the University of Cam bridge being inquired into, as he was satisfied the result would redound to its honour 5 but had be attended the meetings of the Committee, he should have opposed the inquiries made by . the-Com mittee respecting certain charities in Lincoln, and also the questions so otter alluded to, that had been put to Dr. Wood. Mr. J. Sairrn bad never seen less of party spirit in any Committee than had been shown in the Comthittee whose proceedings bad this night been brought under their consideration. Though in the list of names on the Committee a majority had appeared to have been taken from that (the Op position) , side of the Eloise, the Gentlemen on the other side formed ti:e majority of those who attended. Thousands of letters had been received by the Committee shortly after their appointment, w'aieh, if laid before the House, wottld prove that a more impcirtaut and necessary inquiry had never been instituted by . Parliament. To his dying day he should be proud of havitig 'beers a member of the Education ComMittee. He was a friend to, inquiry, and generally where there yeas a disposition to hide the truth Intro the public, ft and and mischief were behind. He 1, e , ( 1 before stated shortly after the subject was bronght forward io the House, that the Qoakera would feel great seistactiour at finding their semi•u naries included in the inquiry about to be set on foot. Iu his opinion this anxiety on their part did them great honour. Mr. HoLFottn. said the Hon. and. Learned Gen• tieman had no great claim to impartiality for naming bins on the Committee ; his name had in fact been mentioned by the hte Speaker when the Commi , tee was formed. But he had not thought it contained many men of learning fit to conduct such an inquiry, and had not attended its meetingi. Mr. Bata/ono' remarked on the manner its which the Committee had just been spOken of It appeared that the learning . of Sir S. RomillY, Sir J. Mackintosh, Mr. Smyth (of Cambridge), Mr. Wilberforce, Mr. W L:aulb, and other dis tinguished personages whom he might name, were not sufficient for the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Holford )—The late 'Speaker might originally have suggested the name of that Hon. Member, but he had subsequently proposed it. The Clause was then agreed to. Mr. BROUGHAM wished it to be understood, that now, as when he brought the subject forward, lie believed there was much negligence to complain of, and many abuses that ought to be corrected. If he were Wrong, it he ought to have taken a lower tone, so also Ought the present Lord-Chan cellor and the late Lord Kenyon, for from them he bad taken the substance of the statement he had formerly made." He was anxious that it should not he supposed he had at all lowered his tone. — lie moved 'to omit in the body of the Bill, the exemption to be granted to Institutions which had special 'visitors. si c W. sc oT T opposed the Amendment.—lll knew no set Of men who had any tight to super sede the Commissioners appointed by the founder of - the Charity. The other course would be a total suppression of the office of Visitor ; or would make it that of a mere apparitor to the CommisSioners, The appointment of a Visitor may . not have been judieibusly chosen ; but theist it Was a sort of paternal institution to provide ,or the peace of societies.. And with this view it was better that the remedy or benefit of s'.ch an insti *totion shook' be tardy, than that it should be al together suppressed. Mr. SCARLErr said it did not seem to him that the amendment now proposed would go so far as the Right lion. Gentleman who spoke last seemed to think. After a few words from Mr. Bathurst, Mr. Patti lett, and Mr. Ellison, the House divided — Ayes Nees ... 76 Majority eguinst the Amendment • ---0 The Bill was then passed. On the Report of the Customs CoaFolidation, Bill, Mt - , Al. StimNF.a (.:omplained that the date fot