The Sun. — London, England, 1841-09-25 00:00:00

MORN 1N G SUN IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Sept. 24. The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hour. Lord Stanley, for North Lancashire ; Capt. Gordon, for Aberdeenshi-e ; and Mr. Pringle, for Selkirk, took the oaths and their seats. CORN-LAWS. Mr. THORNELY presented a petition from the Mi nisters and Concrregations of the Presbyterians ofChester, praying the House not to separate without taking into their consideration the state of the laws regulating the importation of corn. Mr. WIGNEY presented a petition from the Minister, Members and Congregation, of Union-street Chapel, Brighton, to the same effect. PRIVATE BUSINESS. Sir GEORGEditifn;eciti;:t — the consideration of the report of the Private Bills Committee be post poned to Wednesday next. It would be necessary for the Committee to hold another sitting to consider of certain matters which would be submitted to them, and it would be more convenient for the House to con sider the whole subject together.—Agreed. to. Mr. WARLEY presented a petition from an indivi dual named Inglis, complaining of the degradation of the public service consequent upon the squandering of the public money by the Lords of the Treasury, and pray ing for an inquiry into their conduct. Also a petition from John Joseph Stockdale, expressing the petitioner's regret and horror at having heard that persons had died in this country actually from want of food, and praying for an alteration in the Poor- law Amendment Act. Mr. M. PHILIPS presented a petition signed by 4,000 inhabitants of Manchester, praying the House for the abolition of the Corn-laws ; and that it would be pleased not to delay inquiry into the miserable condi tion of their starving families. Mr. COBI)EN presented a petition from 692 inhabi tants of Nottingham, praying for a repeal of the Corn laws ; also a petition from a Baptist congregation in Yorkshire, to the same effect ; and another from Hol born, praying the House not to prorogue till the dis tresses of the country were taken into consideration. ELECTION PETI'I'IONS. The SPEAKER informed the House that he had re ceived a Report from the Committee of Contested Elec tions, to the effect that the recognizances entered into upon the petitions against the returns fur Shrewsbury and Stafford were unexceptionable. NEW WRIT. On the motion of Sir T. FREMANTLE a new writ was ordered to be issued for the election of a Member to serve in Parliament for East Retford, in the room of the Hon. A. Duneombe, who had accepted the office of one of the Grooms ;n Waiting to her Majesy. Mr. 'WILLIAMS presented a petition from Geo. W. Buller, of Doctors' Commons, praying the House would be pleased to lay on a property tax, and repeal the taxes on malt and sugar. Colonel SIBTHORP moved for a return of all the commissions issued by the late - Government since the last return made, pursuant to the order of the House of Commons, on the first of May, 1838.—Agreed to. Mr. EWART moved for a return of the number of committals, convictions, and executions, for murder in the five years dating from 1820. The Hon. Member said his object was to show the effect of the mitigation of the criminal law.—Agreed to. Lord SANDON moved for a return of the amount of duties paid on Canadian timber in the year ending February, 1841. The CHANCELLOB of the EXCHEQUER gave notice that on Monday next he would move a resolution relative to Exchequer Bills. WET INDIA PACKETS. Mr. HODGSON wished to know whether it was the intention of the Hon. and Gallant Member for Falmouth to renew the motion of which he had given notice, for a Committee to inquire into the Report of the Commis sioners appointed to select the best station for the West India packets. Captain PLUMRIDGE said his constituents were de sirous that every information should be offered them, no matter what Government was in office. MANNING OF THE ROYAL NAVY. Captain BERKELEY begged to call the attention of the Hon. Secretary to the Admiralty to a resolution of which be had given notice with respect to the efficient manning of the navy. He wished to know whether it was the intention of the present Board of Admiralty to issue orders that in future none of her Majesty's ships of war should be sent to sea without a fixed and full com plement of men? Mr. SIDNEY HERBERT said the subject was at present under the consideration of the Board of Admi ralty. The principle of having a fell and efficient com plement of men on board vesels of war was one of which he entirely approved ; at the same time the Hon. and Gallant Member must see that, consistently with the public service, it was impossible for him to pledge him self to the extent to which that principle would be applied. Captain BERKELEY then begged to withdraw the motion of which he had given notice upon that subject. He begged also to ask whether the Hon. Baronet was aware that Admiral Stopford had made application to the late Board of Admiralty to renew the system of giving prize money to the seamen and marines employed at Algiers and Naverino—whether any answer had been returned, and whether it was intended to carry the re commendation into effect? Mr. SIDNEY HERBERT said the application had been referred to the present Board of Admiralty, and was under its consideration. ROYAL GARDENS BILL. On the motion for the third reading of this Bill, Mr. VERNON HARCOURT said he wished to ad dress a few words to the Ilouse in reference to a statement contained in some public documents respecting the price of Russian corn. Ile had taken the liberty of inquiring of his Noble Friend; the late Secretary of State for the- Foreign Department, whe ther he could give any explanation to the House respecting a statement in those papers which had been communicated to the House under his direction, that a single Russian province could produce 38,000,000 quar ters of grain. His Noble Friend agreed with him that there must be some mistake. He (Mr. V. Harcourt) had inquired at the Foreign-office, and found, from a communication with the Under Secretary of State, that not only was such a statement made, but that within the last two days aletter had been received from the Consul at St. Petersburgh, whose attention had been drawn to the subject by seeing the speech of his Is.;oble Friend upon the Address, in which it was stated that 38,000,000 quarters of grain were produced in the Province of Tamboof. He intimated to his Noble Friend his conviction that there was a very considerable arithmetical mistake in the calculation, :and that whereas it was there stated that the corn could be brought to the market at St. Petersburg at a price of from 13s. to 145., it was obvious that the calculation there given in Russian money and in Russian measures, when reduced to the English stsndard, would give a re sult differing from that made in the paper no less than 100 per cent.; that the cost would, in fact, be 275. or 28s. Although the Consul voluntarily confirmed his original statement with regard to the ;production of corn, he admitted the arithmetical mistake, and that the cost in the market would be what be (Mr. V. Harcourt) had stated. The SPEAKER reminded the Han. Member that the question before the House was the third reading of the Royal Gardens Bill.—(Hear.) Mr. V. HARCOURT thought the present was the most fitting opportunity to make the statement, and it showed the importance of making due inquiry before legislatin g, upon th e su bj ect of the Corn -l aws. Sir R. PEEL said the mistake referred to by his Hon. Friend had occurred at the Foreign-office. The statement made by their Consul at Petersburgh was, that a certain Government - Russia produced 38,500,000 quarters of wheat, but that statement had been commu nicated to him, and he stated that he had some reason to question its accuracy. He further stated that the price a t which he originally said the wheat could be sold in the market of St. Petersburg", namely, 13s. or 14s. a quar ter, was a mistake, and that the price should have been somewhere about double that sum. He should have all t h e documents in reference to the subject laid before the House. lIA RFORD complained that the Bill would take sway all privacy from the Royal Palace; even now there was l ess ground attached to the Palace th an was attac h ed to any private gentleman's house who was possessed of 1,000 1 . After a few words from Mr. WILLIAMS, the Bill was read a third time and passed. Th e Frogmore Lodge Bill was read a third time and passed. The Population Payment Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be comm itted , on Mond a y. RETIRED ..A.NNITITI TO_VICE-CHANCRI7LORS BILL. On the order of the day being read for receiving the P.eport on this Bill, Colonel SIBTHOHr rose- and said, that the proposed annuity of 3,5001. appeared to him exorbitant. He would not, however, divide the House on the subject, as he felt assured it would be use i l t e h ss t t h o e do H s o o n .. and Gallant Mr. EWART coincided with Colonel in thinking the proposed anonocuitisthooonlladrghe sub stituted and he would p ro p ose that the sum of 3 for 3,500/. Mr. WILLIAMS seconded the proposition. Mr. EWART moved as an am en dment instead of 3,5001 , b e t h e re ti r i n g pension otfhatht. the Vice- Chancellor. Chancellor. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER con ceived the duties of the Vice-Chancellor to be equally arduous and important as those of the other Judges, to whom a retiring pension of thesame amount as that now proposed to be given to the Vice-Chancellor wa s grant e d . I t Was nut fitting that any difference shou ld _ oes be mad e b etween the emoluments of the inferior Ju dge s and th us(' o f the Judge who filled the important office of Vice - Chancello r . Mr. WAKLEY said he should like to know where they would begin to practise economy. According to the argument uf the. Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, a necessity would always arise for such extravagant expenditure. Now, considering the state of the finances of this country, considering that there was no money to bestow, but that, in fact, they had got money to borrow, be thought the sum proposed was preposte rously hig `i. Ho Was.sorry th at hi s H on. F r i en d oppos i te (Mr. Ewwat) had not proposed a lesser sum. He (Mr. W.) thought that 2,000 t. a- year would be enough for a retiring pension. it would, indeed, be a profuse sum, considering the bankrupt state of our finances. Ile was sorry the pre sent Administration had not made. a beginning on the subject. The last Session they were all committed to the stub, and in, blame was d u , to the present Adminis tration then nt least. But if the two parties would thus go in couples, the public would begin to ask which of the two was the worst? It was said if they did not hold out high er2ectations they would command zreat talent. Prom has Wakley's) experience he must say that he found gTeat difficulty in meeting with a barrister who made three o r :lair thousand pounds a year by his profession. He was. iii:."avour of rewarding the Judges amply for their services, but he thought the sum proposed, considering the amount of their salary, was too high for a retiring pension The Lord Chancellor's salary was 14,0001., and his re-. tiring allowance was 5,0001. a year. Why, such a suns was really preposterous, considering the miserable con dition of the working classes. The necessaries they eat were taxed to pay those enormous salaries, which was a reflection upon Parliament. Their bread, their sugar—all that they consumed, was taxed, to make up these enormous salaries. He did ho e, although he did not expect, the House would adopt the suggestion, trifling as it was, as an indication of some thing to be done in future. _ _ Sir R. PEEL said the House was well aware of the ' circumstances under which the Bill was proposed by the late Administration, for the purpose of pro viding some remedy for the enormous evils arising from the accumulation of business in the Court of Chancery—evils accompanying the denial of justice, and arising not from the neglect of the judicial authorities. for they were admitted to be most competent in the discharge of their duties, but from the impossibility of their transacting the extensive and complicated busi ' ness of the Court of Chancery. He was quite sure that it would be the worst economy to make incompetent officers. Unless they procured from the bar two men of great eminence for the discharge of these duties, they would not be properly performed. The Hon. Gentleman said he never knew a lawyer who was worth 3,0001. or 4,0001. a year to the public ; but, at the same time, he ad mitted the importance , of procuring men of high talent and great professional learning to fill these offices. It was on the second point this proposal was made by the late Government, for if the Judges were inferior to the Advocates, their decisions would not carry weight with them, and the consequence would be a temptation to appeal, and the procrastination of justice. This re retiring allowance was the same as that of the Puisne Judges. He (SirR.P.) had often heard complaint made of Judges retaining their seats after they became in competent to discharge their duties, and he had heard it frequently stated that it would be a safer economy to fix such an amount of salary as would induce Judges voluntartly to retire from the bench before they became incompetent. It was difficult of course on a proposal for the reduction of 3001. or 4001. a year to reason upon principle ; but, on the whole, he believed this subject had been well consi dered. He had heard it stated that the salary was hardly sufficient to insure men of the first eminence, but still he had positively refused to make any increase to the sa lary proposed by the late Administration, since he believed it to be a just one, and he trusted it would be found sufficiently liberal to effect this object. It was on thes:a grounds, and not because it had been proposed by the late Government, that he had adopted it.—(Hear.) Sir J. EASTHOPE said that no person could feel more deeply for the distresses of the people than he did, and as the representative of constituents who were suf fering from the most intense distress, he felt he should not be doing his duty if he did not insist upon the most rigid economy. But he was convinced that his constituents, notwithstanding the intensity of their sufferings—not withstanding the depth of their distress — would despise such paltry economy as that, and would never seek to remedy their own distresses by rendering less efficient the administration of justice. That was not a proper system of economy. It was not of those expenses that the people complained. What they complained of was, that they had not the free use of their industry.—(Hear.) It was of another species of taxation that they com plained—a taxation levied not for any services perform ed to the State—from which they derived no benefit, and which, while it fettered their industry, deprived them of their daily bread.—(Cheers.) The reduction proposed was one which, while it could do no good in alleviating the distresses of the country, might do mischief by in terfering with the administration of justice. The true economy was to repeal those laws which tended to im poverish the people and which produced distress and dismay. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw. The House divided, when there appeared— For the amendment Against it Majority against it.., 150 -94 The House - then scent into Committee on the Ad ministration of Justice Bill ; Mr. GREEN in the Chair. Clauses up to 16 were agreed to with a few verbal amendments. On clause 17 being put, Mr. NV ATSON wished to know whether any altera tion was to be made in the appellant jurisdiction of the Court of Chancery. As it at present existed, it was extremely inconvenient, as the appeal was now from one Judge to the Lord Chancellor. Snbjects of appeal were now decided by one Judge. He (Mr. Watson) thought that three out of the five Equity Judges should be constituted a court of appeal, to which decisions would be from time to time referred. The great expense consequent on appeals to the House d Lords would be thus put an end to, or at least dimi nished. He trusted that his Learned Friend (the Attor ney-General) would introduce a clause to that effect in the present Bill. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL was not prepared to deny that there was room for important improvements in the appeal department of the House of Lords, but he begged to state distinctly that he had no intention whatever to introduce any clause of the nature men tioned by the Hon. Gentleman opposite into the Bill. It would be hasty of him to attempt, at present, to legis late on the subject.. The clause was then agreed to. The clauses up to 54 were agreed to. Clause 54 was struck out. On Clause 55 (the Compensation Clause to the Hon. Mr. Scarlett) being read; Mr. WARD said that the present, he thought, was the time for making his amendment. He felt hurt at moving. the amendment in consequence of an Hon. Member of that House being personally concerned, but the cir cumstances of the case were so peculiar that he felt himself imperatively called on to do so. 'l'he House would perceive that it bore upon the case of the Honour able Member for Horsham, who had been ap pointed to an office in the Court of Exchequer. In consequence of the officer who held the situation be fore his appointment having died, that situation was filled up, by, he believed, Lord Abinger, who gave it to his son after March 14, when it might be understood that no compensation was to be bestowed,. notice having been given that the situation was to be abolished. It appeared by this clause that it was to the same Chief Baron, the father of the Hon. Gentleman, in conjunction with the Commissio ners o f t h e T reasury, that the ques tion of compensation was to be referred, and sup posing the emoluments of office to be from 2,00(1. to 3,00C1., which he understood they were, the annual charge upon the country would be from 1,2001. to 1,4001. Now, with a laudable care of the public interests, they had just come to a division upon the propriety of reducing , the salary of the Vice-Chancellor, but here was a ques tion involving a much larger sum, and a much higher principle. This office was conferred after due notice had been given that changes were to be made in the' Court, and if they would look at the 58th clause, where it was provided that it should cease after the Honourable Member succeeded his father, he thought it would be found to tell its own story, and that the charge could not he imposed on the country on fair grounds. The 58th clause was a very remarkable one, because if the Hon. Member was entitled to com pensation at all, he would be entitled to it after he became a Peer. He had been told that there was a tacit understanding with the former House of Commons, but with that they had no thing to do ; and he denied that there had been any understarding or compromise on the subjecct. If the Hon. Gentleman were entitled to the compensa tion, in God's name let him have it; hut he believed he was not, and with this conviction he would propose to insert a proviso that the compensation clause in this Bill should only apply to those officers who were ap. pointed to their office prior to the 14th of March, 1840. The SPEAKER having put the question, Sir F. POLLOCK, after a few words, which were A - host inaudible in the gallery, said, it was a mistake to suppose that it was with the entire concurrence of all parties concerned that the Court of Exchequer was abolished. Certainly Lord Abinger was very much disposed to resist it ; and he believed there were many members of the 'pro fession with whom it was a subject of much regret that there had been such a complete severance of law and equity. What was the duty of Lord Abinger when any vacancy occurred ? The office was one of considerable importance, requiring much professional skill and knowledge, and the person who should fill it could not be expected to take the office for a short or limited period. Lord Abinger considered that he hadi a right, nay, that in justice to the public service it was his duty, to appoint to the situation, and there was no reason under such circumstances why he should not appoint his own son, who was eminently qualified to fill it with honour and credit. That gentleman was then in the profession and held two appointments of considerable value, which he had to give up in order to accept the situation. Suppose the Bill had been abandoned or not passed, in what situation would Lord Abinger have been had he not made the appointment ? He (the Attorney General) considered that he did right, and that Mr. Scarlett was entitled to compensation the same as any other officer. He trusted, therefore, the House would not agree to the amendment of the lion. Gentleman. Mr. WARD thought the Hon. and Learned Gentle man went too far when he said the Noble Lord was under no moral obligation to refrain from appointing.— (Cheers) In his opinion the office could have been as well filled tt mporarily as permanently. He thought this was an inauspicious beginning of the career of the Right Hon. Baronet, from whom so much was expected. Sir R. PEEL—If he recollected properly the Noble Lord late at the heat'. of her Majesty's Government in that House, although he had some doubts at first, gave his assent to the clause. The Noble Lord had certainly stated that, if he had been aware elan the circumstances of the case, lie would not have objected to compensation. Sir G. GREY assured the Right Hon. Baronet that his Noble Friend's (Lord J. Russell) opinion was against any compensation ; but the House affirmed the clause, and at that time there was nothing said about the period. Member After that division an Hon. suggested that the compensation should only b and Learned durmgthe Member lifetime e of Mr. for Scarlett's father, and the Hon. a Exeter greed t t o h l o v u i g t h h o t o t t h a a t d a i r v e is a i s o o n n . abl H e p ii rop li o in. si h t t ion lio a n n . d F it ri l e v n a a s tehqouseerushedad by x t p h r e es u se o d n. himself i t nh the nearlyCh ncseilmloirl similar rf words Mem ber for Sheffield.—(Hear, hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the the close of the debate Major Scarlett statedEXCHEQIiER that brother h a d g i ven u p o ther offices, and then the Noble said his at Lord the S ecre t ar y f or th e Coloniessa said, if h e had been aware of the c i rcums ta nc es at the time, he would have admitted his right to compensation to the value of these offices. After a few words from the SOLICITOR-GE.NEAL , Sir R. PEEL said that it was his intention that the. Bill brought in now, should be exactly the - same as the one introduced in the last Session, in which it was pro- 1 vided that Mr: Scarlet should received the compensation ' proposed. The Hon. Gentleman was not correct in stating that there was any compromise. It was neces sary to make the appointment. Lord ....Ibinzer was in possession of all the legal rights to enable him to make that apointment, and he appointed a member of his own family, who, upon receiving that appointment, relin quished certain valuable rights. Parliament was Tic w about to extinguish the office, and in doing so he thought it ought to act upon the same principle that regulated the abolition of other offices. He thought Mr. Scarlett, had just claims to compensation, and that it would be a dangerous thing to say that the notice of the intention of the House to abolish an office should deprive a party appointed to it aof any compensation. Mr. AGLIONBY said nothing could be more just than the request of the Right Hon. Baronet that they would put aside all political considerations, but were the Hon. Gentleman opposite his dearest friend he hoped and trusted he should vote then as now against him. If personal considerations had any weight he feared it would be to induce Hon, Members to vote out of their respect and kindness for the individual. He would, therefore, warn Hon. Gentlemen on both sides against allowing their personal feelings to bias their judgment on this question, which was not only im portant in a pecuniary point of view, but in principle.— (Hear, hear.) It was said Mr. Scarlett had given up offices to take this appointment, but no one had deigned to inform the House what those offices were, and what was the pecuniary emolument derived from tl!em.— (Hear, hear.) Let not the Committee be misled, but require that some Hon. Member should state the nature of those offices to the Committee. One of them (which could scarcely be called an office) was that of Counsel to the Mint. There was no reason to suppose that any Gentleman had performed his duty better than did the Honourable Gentleman, but he had always un derstood that the Honourable Gentleman took the appointment, believing that the office would not exist for many years, and he must therefore have done so upon a calculation of profit and loss. If that were so there could be no claim for compensation. The Solicitor- General had alluded to some understanding on account of the loss of the emolument of the former offices, but if compensation were to be given on this account, it would be more reasonable to give compensation for that Joss than for the loss sustained by the abolition of this office. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said tile Hon. Gentle• man had miserceratood him. He was mistaken in sup posing that he. said that the offices previously held by Mr. Scarlett were any reason for giving him compensa tion in that Bill. He (the Solicitor-General) had said that Mr. Scarlett was in justice entitled to the compen sation, because he held an office in the Court of Ex chequer which was abolished by the Bill. The Hon. Member for Sheffield said that the Lord Chief Baron ought not to have filled the office up, but by the Act of Parliament the Lord Chief Baron was bound to do so. If, then, he took a practising barrister, whether he held the situation of Counsel to the Mint or not, he must give up some practice and emolument, and he should therefore like to know if such a person were not as much entitled to compensation for the loss of his office as any other person. With regard to the nature of the offices he held, he (the Solicitor-General) had never laid any stress upon them at all, but he hcld the appointment of counsel to several public bodies, which he neces sarily gave up upon his appointment to this office. With respect to the 58th clause, it was stated to him by Major Scarlett that it had been acceded to by the friends of his brother, on the ground that, as a Peer of the realm, hecould not hold the office. He could not pro perly be entitled to compensation after he became one. After this explanation he trusted the Hon. Gentleman would not press a division. Mr. HAWES said . o did he did not doubt the claus would be carried by a large majority, but that was no reason why Hon. Gentlemen who disapproved of it should not have an opportunity of recording their votes against it. He wished the Right Hun. Gentleman had stated whether the Lord Chief Baron might not have a temporary appointmeut.—(Hear, hear.) Of that he (Mr. Hawes) believed there was no doubt. The Right Hon. Gentleman had spoken of the appointment as merely the exercise of the patronage belonging to the head of the Court, but he thought this patronage should not be considered as part of the emolument of the office, and ' that they should know whether 7,0001. a year was or was not sufficient for the salary of the Lord Chief Baron.—(Hear, hear.) If this principle of the right to appoint relatives were admitted, what became of the ar gument about professional skill and knowledge.—(Hear, hear.) He trusted the House would uphold the prin ciples of economy, and second the amendment.—(Hear.) ' Mr. WATSON said, that when the Bill was first brought in, and before the appointment, there was a general understanding that the office would be abolished. The proper mode of making the appointment, therefore, would have been to have made it for and during the exi,tence of the office.—(Hear.) This was done in 1830, in the case of the Welsh Judicature ; for by that Act the judges and officers subsequently appointed were not entitled to compensation, but the others were.— (Hear.) The arguments used, if followed out, would amount to this, that if an appointment was made that evening, the person appointed would have a claim for compensation.—( Hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the Bill, as originally introduced, had no clause on the subject, but n clause was introduced in Committee by the late Chancellor of the Exchequer, limiting the compensa tion in the manner that had been suggested. Sir It. PEEL said the doctrine he had held was not novel. That on the abolition of patronage attached to a judicial office, it was but right to consider that patronage in granting compensation. This doctrine was not novel, but recognised by statute. Sir G. GREY said the offices recognised by the stn trite were distinctly saleable ones.—(Hear.) Mr. WARD asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he was willing to accede to the limitation of compensation assented to by the late Chancellor of the Exchequer? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that was not the point.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. C. WOOD said, on the last debate the late Chan cellor of the Exchequer had voted against the amend ment of the present Solicitor-General, because the So licitor-General would not accede to the suggestion to limit the compensations according to his suggestion. Lord PALMERSTON said he thought it would be satisfactory to the House to have a distinct answer to the question just put by the Hon. Member for Sheffield. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he was quite ready to answer that question, because he did not vote for the clause without having satisfied himself as to the grounds on which he did so. He was not pre pared to vote against it to suit any temporary purpose. —(Hear, hear.) Ha believed the Lord Chief Baron h a d a perfect legal right to appoint to the office, and he be lieved Mr. Scarlett was properly appointed. No person had been induced to resign in his favour, the office hav ing become vacant by death, and having been so ap pointed, he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) thought that, in conformity with all precedent, he had a right to compensation.—(Hear, hear.) Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House divided, when the numbers were— For the clause For the amendment Bl Majority for the clause -59 The clause was then ordered to stand part of the Bill. The remain clauses were then agreed to, and the Re port was ordered to be received on Monday next. STATE OF THE COUNTRY. Sir G. CLERK having moved that the House should resolve itself into a Committee of Supply, Mr. P. STEWART rose pursuant to notice to call the attention of the House to the petition presented on the 21st of September from the Provost, Magistrates, and Town Council of Paisley, on the present distressed con dition of the manufacturers of the county of Renfrew. He believed that the inhabitants of Paisley had not made the complaints which the petition contained upon slight grounds. The manufacturers of Renfrewshire had signed three memorials on the subject of the grievances which they suffered. The first of these memorials had been forwarded to her Majesty, praying that her Majesty might. not be pleased to prorogue Parliament until some remedy were devised by the Legislature for their dis tressed condition ; the second had been forwarded to the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Home Depart ment, as well as to the Government to which he belonged ; and the third, was the petition which had been laid on the tatale of the House on Tuesday last. The petition described in plain and unexaggerated language a scene of distress and suffering, which in his (Mr. Stewart's) opinion was entitled to the favourable consideration of the Legisla ture. He might add, that the petition spoke the senti ments of the entire county of Renfrew. It stated that the failure of manufacturers in the district, within the last few months, involved a sum of 700,0001 They ascribed that state. of things to the fact of foreign mar kets having been closed on them, while the remedy which had been held out to them had been refused by Parlia ment. They stated that 650 heads of families were now out of employment, which, of course. arose from a want of' labour. 'I hey further stated, that disease, and suffering, and death were increasing to an appalling extent, while medical men attributed that either to a want of food, or to the inferior quality of food consumed. It appeared that hundreds of retail shops were closed, and one thou sand two hundred looms were standing still. Private sources of relief had been frequently applied to, and had been as frequently exhausted ; so that no course was now left to the starving operatives, but to entreat the Legis lature of the country to take their case into its considera tion. He had himself received communications from in habitants of Paisley and Johnstone, well-informed on the subject, which confirmed the statereents of the peti tion. They alleged that such a state of things as that under which they were suffering could hardly be sup posed to arise from any other cause than war or pesti lence, and they attributed the evil to the monopolies in trade to which the country was subject. The fact was, that the best tradesmen in the country had trans ported themselves to America or other countries, while a large portion of the houses and shops were unoccu pied. The funds of the Friendly Societies were now exhausted, and nothing remained for the operatives but to sink to the condition of paupers.--(Cries of " Hear, hear.") In the town of Johnstone, it appeared, from another communication he had received, that out of 16 cotton-mills, only four were in operation, and no more than four hundred, one-fourth of the labouring popula tion, were at present employed. Disease was spreading at a fearful rate amongst the inhabitants, and that was attributable solely to the insufficiency on the inferior quality of their food. Now, in his (Mr. Stewart's) opi nion, such a state of things wasa reproach to a Christian country.—(H ear , h ear.) - And humanity and religion required that something should be promptly and efficiently clone by the Government to remove that mass of misery by opening markets for our industrious artisans. The petitioners from Paisley stated that they would be want ing in their duty if they did not lay their case before Parliament, in order that it might be taken into imme diate consideration. They prayed the House not to ad journ until they considered the subject with a view to •. t • ri THE SUN. LONDON. SATURDAY, SEPT_EMBER 25, devise some means to remedy the existing dis tress. Such a petition, eii his opinion, was en titled to something more than being simply laid upon the table of the House.—(l-fear, hear.) The pre sent Government should nut blame those who preceded them in the management of affairs for that distress, be cause the best Government might he unable to prevent such a state of things ; but any Government holding the reins of office in this country, was bound to devise some means . for its remedy.—(Hear, hear.) What he (Mr. Stewart) complained of, was that silent system pursued by Hon. Gentlemen opposite. A Noble Lord had remarked, in conversation, that the late Govern ment bad been strangled by mutes ; and the remark ap peared to him a just one. When the Noble Lord the Member for London had protested against the proroga tion of Parliament until something had been done to relieve the distress of the country, the Right Hon. Ba ronet the Member for Tainworth rose and addressed the House, ably and forcibly no doubt, but no other voice was heard from the Ministerial benches ; and the Right Hon. Baronet himself would pardon him when he said that his speech amounted to little more than a declare don that he would not reveal the course of policy which he meant to pursue. Let him remind the House that the late trensfer of power had not been made upon an ordinary question.—(Hear, hear.) Ministers had formerly resigned upon the ques tion of a Civil List or on an appropriation clause ; but, in the late instance, it was upon a vital question of fiscal reform and commercial relief that the Government had been changed. It was admitted upon both sides of the House that distress prevailed to an alarming extent in the country—a distress which ought to be relieved with the least poseible delay. At the close of the last Session of Parliament, the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth protested against even a month's delay in the settlement of the Corn-law question. It was said by him that the measures of the Government so seriously endangered the commercial relations and the best inte rests of the country, that the new Parliament ought to be immediately assembled to settle the matter. The late Government had devised a plan fir the relief of the na tional distress, which, in the opinion of all practical men, was well fitted for meeting the exigencies of the case.— (Ironical cheers from the Opposition benches.) He un derstood the meaning of that cheer, but he must say that, although the Right Hon. Baronet was supported by a majority in that House, yet that majority was entirely a landlords' majority.—(Cheering, and counter-cheering. ) He said it advisedly ; and although he believed that, personally and politically, be represented as large a stake in the landed interest as any Honourable Gentleman op posite, yet he would contend that the majority returned at the last election was to all intents and purposes a land lords' majority.—(Loud cheers from the Opposition, mingled with cries of " No, no," from the Ministerial benches.) Now, what were the facts ? The counties of England constituted that majority.—(Loud cheers.) Ireland had returned a majority of Members in favour of the much-abused Budget of the late Government. Scotland had returned a majority favourable to that Budget. The towns and boroughs of England had also returned a majority favourable to that Budget, and it was to the counties of England that the majority in op position to that Budget had been returned.—(Cheers.) Was he not justified, therefore, in calling it a landlords' majority ?—(Loud cheers.) He knew that he might be told to look to the large towns—to Leeds divided—to the representatives of Liverpool, both in opposition to the Budget of the late Government, and to London divided ; but his two Hon. Friends opposite (the Members for London) knew as well as he did that there was a certain class of watermen whose votes were purchaseable (Hear, hear)—and e t Liverpool a large proportion of the 'Ad freemen.—(Cheers.) He would confess that he had voted for the old freemen retaining their franchise under he Reform Bill, because at that time he represented a arge section of them.—(Cheers and laughter.) The reason why he had so voted was because they had re turned him four times to Parliament ; but he would con fess, as indeed he - had confessed at the time, that by voting for retaining them he was retaining a weak, if not a rotten, plank in the Constitution. He must therefore repeat that, however respectable that majority might be, it was, to all intents and purposes, a landlords' majority.— (Cheers.) He would also say that they were now, by their conduct, torturing the feelings of the country on tenterhooks, and if they were determined to fight the battle of the landlords against what were called the "Cotton Lords," all the great interests of the country must suffer.—(Cheers.) In the absence of all state ments in that House, he had looked to what had been said on the hustings, to see if he could gather any hope if relief, and first of all he had read the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Vice-President of the Board of Trade, delivered in Newark, in which, after entering into a catalogue of the crimes of the Whig Government, he said it was quite sufficient merit for the Tory Go vernment that it had been the means of displacing the Whig Government.—(Cheers and laughter.) Then he had looked to the certainly able and eloquent speech of the Noble Lord the ember for North Lancashire, but he could find no comfort from its perusal.—(Hear, hear.) He could not tell in what degree the agricultural con stituency of the Noble Lord might be able to judge of the questions which the Noble Lord had discussed be fore them. The Noble Lord had attributed the distress of the country to over-production, but he never pointed out how we were to be delivered from that distress by extending our markets. But with regard to the Corn laws, the Noble Lord had justified the principle of the sliding scale, and he appeared to be almost as firm a sup porter of the present system as a Noble Duke in the other House.--(Hear, hear.) But the Noble Lord had not attempted to show how the grinding effects of the present Corn-laws were to be obviated.—(Hear, hear.) tic had also sought for information from the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet opposite to his constituents at Dorchester, but. he had been disappointed.—(Hear, i•-ar.) The Right Honourable Baronet had said that the secrets of the Cabinet must not be re peated, or, to use his own words, that he must observe that reserve under which he had accepted office. — (Cheers and laughter.) The Right Hon. Gentleman had argued in favour of the present Corn-law, indeed, on the question of protection it was hard to say how far the Right Hone Gentleman might be inclined to go, for all his arguments fur protection tended to vindicate absolute prohibition, and it wes impossible to say how his advice would be given on the question. He, indeed, indulged in a simile which, although it might amuse, could not, he should imagine, satisty the country. He had congratu lated his constituents on the :lemony indicated in the present Government. Queen, Lords, and Commons were now,. be said, in happy unison, and the Right Hon. Ba ronet the Member for Tamworth, with the master hand of a musician, was placed at this harmonious musical in strument, to the delight of the people and the country. — (Cheers and laughter.) He did not know how he was to play on t his grand political piano -forte, unless he placed the two Dukes as pedals under his feet.—(Cheers and laughter.) The fanners would listen with a hope of hear ing him, with the assistance of his pedals, play the old air of " Speed the Plough."—(Loud laughter.) But while the people were expecting some exquisite harmony, the only tune the Right Hon. Baronet played to them was the mawkish melody. " Oh! no! we never mention it."— (Cheers and laughter.) He thought that the opinion Of the Hon. Baronet the Member for Dorchester must be like that of the poet, that— . " The harmony of things Like that of sounds, from discord springs.' _ —(Cheers and laughter.) If some explan:ttimi were not given as to the intentions of her Majesty's Government —if the Right Honourable Baronet attempted to prorogue the Parliam,nt before proposing some measure fOr remedying the widely spread distresses of the manu facturi4g districts, it would be in vain hereafter to at tempt to restore the prosperity, or to maintain the peace of the country.—(Cheers.) If such a course were adopted the results would be disastrous in the extreme. It was a course which did not become them, either as men or as Ministers—as men it was cruelly inhuman, and as Ministers it was unwise and fraught with danger to the country.—(Loud cheers.) Mr. GIBSON. thought the House was indebted to the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down for the statements which he had made, and the manner in which he had brought the subject under the attention of the House. The country felt disgusted with the silent system which had been purSued by the other side of the House. It was not treating subjects of such vast importance with the attention or the consideration which they deserved. —(Cheers.) He would admit, however, that silence was the safest defence in a had case ; and he dared to sly that the adVice given to Hon. Gentlemen on the other side was something the same us that given by the counsel to the defendant in a bad case—to hold his tongue. —(Cheers and laughter.) So far from consi dering that the subject ought not to be brought forward, he (Mr. Gibson) was of opinion that the House could not appear to be more usefully em ployed than in endeavouring to devise a remedy for the distresses of the people. With regard to financial mea sures, be did not press the Right Hon. Baronet to submit to them his financial schemes that very moment. He was aware of the plausible pretext that might be urged, such as that he had not-been a month in office ; that he had not had access to those official documents which it was necessary he should consult before bringing forward a permanent financial scheme. But if to consult those documents were really so necessary, he could not but re gret that more deference had not been shown to those who had those facilities when they had proposed their financial schemes—(Loud cheers) —but that they had been interrupted in the very outset, and cut off even before their measures were fully developed.—(Loud cheers.) But knowing that in all probability , the the result of. th e Right Honourable Baronet's finan cial meditations, and of the Chancellor of the Ex chequer's lucubration, would end in bringing forward some propositions for new taxes, he did not care how long the proposition of the financial scheme was put off, or it' he never heard of it at all. But although it had been stated that even if the Budget of the late Ministry had been adopted a loan would be necessary. yet it had never been shown that that Budget would not produce an increased revenue, and if the proposition for an Bs. fixed duty on corn had been adopted within the last week, there would have been an addition to the revenue of half a million. whilst corn would have been purchased from the foreigner at a cheaper rate.--(Cheers.) But the financial question was, comparatively speaking, of no importance compared with the consideration of the dis tress of the country. The Member for Renfrewshire had laid before them a most interesting- statement relating to the distress in the county which he represented, and if he were not fearful of fatiguing the:. House he could relate statements of the distress ex isting at Manchester which ex ceeded even those made by that Hon. Gentleman. In that town there were warehouses piled withgoods, of which no profitable sale could be effected ; insolvencies and bank ruptcies were of daily occurrence ; thousands were de • prived of employment—thousands were suffering from typhus, brought on solely through the want of sufficient food ; and there were 8,000 residing in one district living upon a miserable pittance of ls. 3d. per head per week. If they looked to the agricultural districts, what did they see ? A state of prosperity, produced by the high price of corn, occasioned by those laws which the far neer was told were enacted for his advantage ? No ; they beheld a fearful competition among the farmers fin: forms, and complaints that there were no getting farms except under such terms as placed the farmer in the condition (74 a serf under his landlord—(Cheers, and counter cheers) —complaints of the depressed state of trade, so blocking up all channels of employment that they could nut get their sons engaged in the different depart ments of business. Then let them look at the small pittance awarded to the labourer in the agricultural districts.—(lronical cheers.) Why, what did the Agricultural Associations do ? and in alluding to these Associations he could not but regret that associations, established professedly for the improve ment of agriculture, should have lapsed into Conserva tive Associations.—(Cries of " Name, name.") Since he was called upon to name an Association, he would desire them to look at the proceedings at the Agricul tural Association at Saxmundhame the other day, which exhibited all the symptoms of a Political Association. In the first place, the usual insult had been paid to her Majesty.—(Cheering and counter-cheering.) Her name had been received with cold indifference, and with some hisses, while the health of the Queen-Dowager had been drunk with nine times nine, and one cheer more. —(Loud cheering and counter-cheering.) Now, what had they done after drinking the usual toasts ? He beseeched the House to mark this. They had intro duced a collection of labourers, to whom they had given rewards for having been able to bring up a small family without having had recourse to parochial relief. —(Cheers from; the Tory side.) What then ? They admitted that the condition of the agricultural labourer was one of such wretchedness that it was a matter of astonishment, and worthy of a reward, if he were able to bring up a small family without having recourse to parochial relief.—(Cheers from the Opposition.) Were not the Agricultural Associations always striving to get rid of the labourers from the agricultural districts ? Were not propositions frequently made at the union boards to vote money to send labourers to Manchester ?—(Cheers.) Why, the Duke of Buckingham himself had recently subscribed 1/. to get rid of a family of labourers, in which there were six sons, all capable of labour, and all of good character—for the subscription had been raised for them because they were of good character—to pay their expenses from Buckinghamshire, where they could obtain no work, to Manchester, in order that they might endeavour to find employment there ?—(Cheers.) How could they maintain such an argument, when they knew that in the agricultural districts in Devonshire, Wiltshire, and Buckinghamshire, the wages of the labourer amounted only to six, seven, eight, or nine shillings a week ? In Norfolk and Suffolk they might perhaps be somewhat higher, but in consequence of the high price of bread the agricultural labourer was barely able to provide food for his family, and after paying his rent he had nothing left to expendin clothing, or to afford an education for his children, so that he could in many instances scarcely afford to appear decently clad in a place of worship. He defied Hon. Gentlemen opposite to contradict these statements. — (Hear, hear.) Now, what did Hon. Gentlemen do when they talked of the distress ? Oh, they talked of the causes of it—they said it was occasioned by over-produc tion—that the reason the people were out of employ ment was, that the manufacturers had employed too many of them, and that if a few more were thrown out of em ployment there would be no distress at all. That, he believed, was what the over-production argument amounted to. Another attributed the distress to Joint-stock Banks, fictitious capital, and things of that sort. They speculated as to the causes of the distress ; but what, he wanted to know, was the remedy ?—(Loud cheers.) They were satisfied as to the existence of the distress. Hon. Gentlemen opposite admitted that, and he contended that, being satisfied that the distress ex isted, it was their duty, without loss of time, to devise some remedy.—(Cheers.) On his side of the House they suggested a remedy.—(Loud cheers.) They said the best thing was to extend the foreign trade of the country, to seek for fresh customers abroad, and thus to ensure unlimited employment to the population. On the other side it was argued that the labourers ought to seek for employment on the land. The answer to that was, that the field of employment on land must necessarily in an island be limited, but that it was impossible to set bounds to the foreigis trade, for that, as long as the world continued to want manufactures, it must go on increasing.— (Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") but that, if that were checked, to expect to find employ ment for all in the land, would be contrary to common sense.—(Cheers.) But the Right Hon. Baronet says, look at Leeds, Hull, Liverpool, and London—the Mem bers for those places are to be found among the op ponents of the late Government—what do those places say to free trade ? It was certainly true that the Members of many commercial places might be found among the supporters of the Right Honourable Baronet.—(Cheers.) That was true ; but that could not be taken as an argument against the opi nion of the country, in favour of free trade. Under what circumstances had those Members been returned ? The Right Hon. Baronet had been particularly careful not to say what his policy would be, and that had given his supporters an opportunity of talking fast and loose on the subject of free trade. Some of the Conservative free-traders had said the Right Hon. Baronet was as willing to grant free trade as the Melbourne Ministry —that he had both the power and the will ; while they had only the will without the power. Why, what had been done at Manchester ? He had been opposed there by the Right Hon. Gentleman now holding high office under the Right Hon. Baronet's Government, and what had been his conduct with regard to free trade? Had he raised the cry "No free trade ?" No such thing ; he had in substance said that the Right Hon. Baronet was at heart a free trader.—(Cheers.) Many Conservatives, free traders, had been induced to vote for Conservative candidates, by the assurance that the Right Hon. Baronet was only watching his opportunity to throw overboard the landed interest; and quotations from a speech of illy Right Hon. Baronet in that House had been printed and extensively circulated, with a view of showing that the Right lion. Baronet was actually against the Corn-laws. The passage quoted was to the effect that the manufac turers were the main stay of the prosperity of the country, and that the landed interest derived their prosperity more from the prosperity of the manufacturing interest than frozn the Corn-laws. That extract was made a copious use of during the late elections, and had induced many Conservative manufacturers to believe that the Right Hon. Bart. was really disposed to support a free trade policy. They had been told that Mr. Huskisson was a Conservative and a free trader—that all the free trade measures had been introduced by Conservatives; and that the Whig Government had adopted free trade only to save itself in its last agony. He would not im pute to the Right Hon. Bart. that he had given instruc- Lions on the subject, but certainly a system had been adopted in the manufacturing districts to induce a belief that the Right Hon. Bart. was disposed to a free trade policy.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Why, in Manchester placards had been issued, inscribed with Free Trade," " Ch. ap Bread," " High Wages," " Vote for Murray and Entwisle," " Ne Whigs," No Poor-law." That placard had never been disavowed, although it had been alluded to over and over again. Indeed there had been no reason to disavow it, for the speeches and statements made were in accordance with the placard. Now what would those who had been induced by such means to support the Right Hon. Baronet think when they saw the Duke of Buckingham a Member of his Cabinet—(Cheers)—and heard that Noble Duke declaring, as he had done the other day to the farmers of Buckinghamshire, that he had not changed one iota of his opinions, but that he was determined to maintain the Corn-law in its presentstate? —(Cheers.) Could they help feeling that there had been some misunderstanding "on the subject ? The Right Honourable Baronet had talked of examining minor details—of altering the modes of taking the ave rages—but the Duke of Buckingham had raised the cry of " No surrender."—(Great cheers.) How could they reconcile these things with the idea that the Right Hon. Baronet was the head of an united Cabinet? —(Loud cheering.) But what did they propose to do to remedy the existing distress ? Did the Right Hon. Baronet mean to trust to the chapter of accidents ? Did he mean to prorogue without proposing any remedy ? And did he imagine that by doing nothing trade would come round—(Cries of "Hear, hear," and cheering.) Must the poor man be left to the charitable relief of the middle classes ? Did they not think, after the efforts male- to raise the independence of the labouring popula tion, that it would be unwise to leave the pour to charita ble relief and alms? Would they assign any reasonable time for the recovery of trade ? Did they hope that this relief would recover trade ? He had no such hope, and there was an authority on the subject which Hon. Gentleman on either side of the House would not be disposed to question. He alluded to the Hon. and Rev. Baptist Noel—(Cheers)—an authority whom they would submit to with respect, an ornament to the Church, and a leader of religious opinions.—(Laughter from the Mi nisterial side of the House.) He asks " What is to be done ? Tickets for coals and potatoes would not be suf ficient—charity sermons would not fatten, but the earth was amply sufficient for the production of food, and would reward the poor with its riches ; and they had skill and industry to work, if they had the opportunity, for the food with which Europe could supply them if only the duty on foreign corn was fixed." That Rev. Gentleman pro posed the remedy—the true remedy—for the distress of the country ; and they should recollect it was not safe to leave the country in its present state of intelligence and knowledge, in such a state.—(Hear, heiir.) He said it was not safe, because the country was beginning to un derstand the quest i on o f t h e P enny P ostage , and' other measures had spread . : tracts and information on the sub ject through the country, and every class was becoming acquainted with the injustice of the Corn-law. He also kirlw that the Government of the Right Hon. Baronet was aware of that injustice; and he would read the state ments made by th e Noble Lord the Member for North Lan cashire at his late election, where he was opposed by Mr, Acland.—(Laughter.) What was there to laugh at ? He had only read the papers, and lie found that Mr. Acland had been proposed and seconded, and had a show of hands almost equal to the Noble Lord.—(" No, no.") But the electors were able to put questions to the Noble Lord, which was a convenient mode of eliciting what were the opinions of her Majesty's Government. The first question put was, "Does the Corn-law raise the price of bread ?" And the Noble Lord said it was the object of the Corn-law to raise it above its natural level. He went .on to say " that the effect of this was an increase in the rental of the landlords. Ile did not say it was the intention of the Legislature to produce such an effect." They would assume it was an incidental ef fect—(Cheers)—but all they wanted to know was, did it raise the price of bread ? The third position was, "lie admitted freely and distinctly that the price of bread had no effect on the rise or fall of wages•" — (Cheers.) Now, mark that ! The very principle for which the Corn-law League and the political economists were contending. What would be the reflection of the hand-loom weavers when they heard this ? Would they not argue thus :—" These laws in crease the rental of land, and do not increase wages." Would he not come to the conclusion that the dainties of the rich were purchased by his tears 2—(Cheers) —that the tax on bread enabled the landlords to revel in luxury at his expense ?--(Cheers.) Was it unnatural to come to such conclusions? He did not think it was, I but he would not impute any motives. But the Noble Lord would say, " Yes, but this tax increases the de mand for labour in the agricultural districts, and it there fore raises the rate of wages in those districts." His (Mr. Gibson's) answer to that was, that those very agri culturists employed a Mr. Muggridge as their agent, for the express purpose of transferring the agricultural la bourers to the manufacturing districts, and were sub scribing to get rid of them.—(Loud cheers.) He an swered by facts, but he could not answer by reason also.—(Hear, hear.) It was impossible for a limited country to produce sufficient food for a conti nually increasing population. Misery and dis tress to a large amount would follow the ap plication of such a principle. He was afraid he was detaining the House.—(Hear, hear) But it was not only the poor, but the middle classes and capitalists who suffered. They would no, longer endure to live by sufferance, and to , have their 'food doled out to them, that the landed proprietors might have their tables splen didly spread out before them.—(Hear, hear.) Why should not they who had no land be allowed to produce corn in the cheapest way they could by the medium of exchange ?—(Cheers.) The landed proprietors had no right to the exclusive privilege of giving bread—of being the licensed victuallers of the country.—(Cheers.) The commercial world would not consent to be a mere secondary class in society. Distress or no distress, they were entitled to the full and fair reward of their indus try.—(Hear, hear.) Let all make the most of what they had—the agriculturists of their estates, the capis talists of their capital, the labourer of his labour.— (Cheers.) There was nothing improper—nothing du bious in this doctrine, that each class should be satisfied with his own, and with what Providence placed within his reach.—(Loud cheers.) Mr. PARKED, called upon the Right Hon. Bart. not to leave the country in doubt and uncertainty as to the measures he meant to propose. He did not require any large exposition of his propositions, but he did not think it right that he should keep entirely concealed the mea sures he intended for the removal, of the acknowledged distresses of the nation. He thought, the Right Hon. Bart. was bound to say more than that he would make some slight alteration in the averages, and should make a small development of his views on the subject of the Corn-laws.—(Hear, hear.) The country would not be satisfied with such obscurity. The country generally attributed its distress to the Corn-law. He himself believed there were other causes besides, but there was no doubt the Corn-law was instrumental in creating that distress.—(Hear, hear.) He wondered how the Right Hon. Gentleman who had been learned in politics could come down to that House and meet the distresses of the country with a blank sheet of paper, It had a right to know the policy of the Right Hon. Gentleman on the subject.—(Hear, hear.) Sir R. PEEL rose and said—Sir, if the Right Hon. Gentleman who has just set down demanded of me a fuller . exposition of my views, which he seems to think necessary, I do not think it would be more unreasonable than the demand of the " little development " which he has made.—(Cheers and laughter.) I see no great ad vantage to be derived from that little development. The course I take is amore rational, one than his.- <Hear.) It was the position I assumed on being called on, with my colleagues, in the administration of public affairs, to repair some of the enormous embarrassments—(Lond cheers).- . --in which his party has involved the couatry, as far as its financial policy is concerned. The course I pursued was to ask from the House of Commons and from the country sufficient confidence to take compre hensive views of the condition of the country, and a short, a comparatively short, period, when I think of the importance of the question, to mature our policy, and submit it to the consideration of Parliament. And that seems to me to be a more rational course than to make a little development. Why, what should I say on the subject of the Corn-law--on this demand of a " little develope ment" 'of my views on the subject. Was I, after saying the Corn-laws should be considered, and announcing the plan and intention of Government on the subject, to submit them at once for consideration? Could there be any advantage in going into details 'and postponing the consideration of them? It was only the other night I was told from the other side that nothing could be more un wise than to discuss the Corn-laws without taking into simultaneous consideration the question of the Poor-law. I was told that these two questions were closely and in timately connected together, and was advised, on no ac count to develop what the views of Government were on the One question without explaining my views on the other.—(Hear, hear.) And what was I told last Session? Why, that the Corn-law was essential to a comprehen sive system of finance.—(Hear.) It the finances were so intimately connected with the Corn-law that they could not be separated, what fair demand could be made on the Go vernment to bring them forward now ? If they be so essential to the finances of the country, as stated by the other side, what claim can be made on me to produce the plan of Government with respect to them when the finances are yet to be considered.—(flear.) I stated last Session that I would not be forced, in case our opposition to the late Government was successful, into a premature declaration of the intentions of Government.—(Hear.) I made that statement repeatedly. The sense of the country was taken, by means of an election, under the auspices of the late Government, since I made that de claration of my intention, and the opinion of the country, as evinced by the late elections, was clearly in favour of the course I pursued. I stated at the time that if succes : ful in opposing the measures of the late Government I would ask for a temporary means of repairing the deft ficiency of the country, and would not bring for ward any general plan.—(Hear, hear.) I stated that before the general election the constituen cies were aware of my intention, and the consequence of the general election was, that her Majesty's lute Go vernment were left in a minority, that made it impos sible for them to carry on the Government. The Hon. Member for Manchester says I maintain reserve. Well, the country was aware of that reserve, and the country demanded no more explicit declaration than the one .1 gave ; and notwithstanding that reserve, her Majesty's late Ministers were left in a minority that obliged them to quit office. Mr. HAWES—By means of the county constituency. Sir R. PEEL—Yes; but that county constituency was left by the Noble Lord, the author of the Reform Bill— (Cheers.) But this is always the mode of reasoning when a party is deprived of public confidence. That confidence was lost to them, be it recollected, notwith standing the Reform Bill. They say the real opinion of the country is with them notwithstanding their defeats. Why, since the change of Government there have been nearly thirty new vacancies in the Administration, and those thirty Members appealed to their constituencies, and the returns have been entirely in their favour.— (Cheers.) Nay more, with the exception of that for midable opponent with whom I and my Noble Friend had to contend—(Laughter)—not a single member of that Administration had been opposed.—(Loud cheers.) The lion. Member for Manchester was therefore right to make the most of that opposition of Mr. Acland. I am not surprised at his dwelling on him with so much exultation.—(Laughter.) He had been proposed and seconded. Mr. GIBSON-The show of hands in his favour was equal to that on the part of the Noble Lord. Sir R. PEEL—Yes; but he had not, i: appears, suffi cient confidence in that show of hands.—(Cheers.) Now, with regard to my silence, I can assure the Hon. Gen tleman that there was no intention of showing any in dividual disrespect, or any want of a just appreciation of the importance of that subject, in me or my colleagues forbearing immediately to follow Hon. Gentlemen oFpo site; but I think, after the decision come to the other night, that it is not quite fair to take this opportunity of again referring to the subject before they went into a Committee of Ways and Means. This discussion would lead to no result, and I thought the Hon. Gentleman did not intend to provoke a general debate of the subject, but would confine him self to the unfortunate circumstances in his own locality. I considered he felt a deep sympathy in the distresses of his constituency, but I was surprised that he had time to concoct that series of very bad jokes on musical instruments fir which he hoped to attain the character of a wag, and, by his jacoseness, to re commend himself to his constituency.—(Hear.) Sir, the Hon. Gentleman convinces me also that, not withstanding die prominent position which he occupies. his counsel as an adviser under the present difficulties is not altogether to be followed. For the Hon. Gentle inan says he attributes a great part of the defects which exist in the present constituencies to the retention of freemen in the boroughs ; and yet the Hon. Gentle man was resolved at first to maintain the rights of the freemen, and he has no better reason for justifying the part which he took against his own conviction, than the personal obligations which he owed to these people for having returned him four successive times to Parliament. Therefore the Hon. Gentleman clearly proves to us, that whatever course the temporary interests of his consti tuents may require him to take, those interests will pre vail in his mind against his more enlarged views. — (Hear, hear.) So for does the Hon. Gentleman carry this principle, that having to repair the vessel of the State, which he says was in danger from the rottenness of its planks, he purposely inserted a rotten plank in the vessel of the Constitution.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman will permit me to detract considerably from his authority after that candid declaration. Sir, I have said before, that I do sympathise with .the distress which exists in certain parts of the country. But it is most important that those upon whom the duty is imPt)s i l ls t of laying :,the foundation of a remedy for thoseeasesv should n o t b e d r i ve n to hasty and precipitate theure of m country relief. lam certain that the gogoof[se a n r s e e of entrusted with affairs, is in fav o ur of giving tothtise vho time and opportunity to the administratiou of investigate the causes to which the distress is really attri butable.—(lear.) Why, I have heard those who are now the most active in the Anti -Corn-law repeal—l have heard them attribute that distress mainly to a cause which we are now ridiculed for alluding to. namel y , the artificial stimulus app lied to production by mean s o f an excessive issue of bank notes. That very Chamber of Commerce, of the town which the lion. Gentleman re presents, distinctly stated that manufactures, and the cot ton ma nufacture in particular, were in a state o f great pros }writ); up to the year 1836.—(Hear.) That p rosper i ty was c o-existent with the present system of Corn-laths. Bet t h e Chambyr of Commerce declared that in conse quence of the misconduct of the Bank of England, fol lowed by the misconduct of Joint Stock Banks, the most extravagant stimulus was given to manufactures ; ad vances are made by Joint 'Stock Banks to manufac turers, cotton mills are built, machinery is placed in those cotton mills ; the machinery and the building are con signed as security for the issue ; then comes a revulsion in trade, and then a demand for money ; the mills arc stopped, the security is of little worth, the mills and the machinery sell for a comparatively small sum on account of the nature of the security ; and then it is said that the Corn-laws are the cause of all this distress.—(Hear , hear.) Now I say it is material to ascertain to what extent other causes operate and produce that. distress. The Hon. Gentleman with his opinions upon free trade, and the iniquity of the Provision laws, asks me IqOIINING Stlll%?` to come forward at once and propose anew Corn -la ask him, would h e b e satisfied if now, when corn Cn tl be admitted at a d u ty o f I s ., I s h ou ld proposes duty 0 1 tid —(Hear, hear, f rom th e Mi n i s t er i a l BBenches.)he be satisfied w ith t h e adoption of that rerne d .Y.% z was heretofore p ro p ose d ? I make this observa tte spew the impropriety o f resor ti ng to a ny sudden an d„ ) stantaneous remedy for nubile distress._(lj ea r, hew. z ,1 The Hon. Gentleman asf.:s me if I deny the distressool.-; certainly do not deny th e di s tr e s s . I believe that i n o t manufactueing districts great distress prevail"t, while I express a feeling of deep regret a t the e % istence of this distress, I d o n o t wish to to)`,4 so desponding a view of the conditi o n of the count' as I think some are disposed t o do. I do 1 believe, speaking generally, that the conditi on g this country is such as to forbid a ll h o pe of returnin prosperity. I hold in my hand a document which any one would wish to possess who was s tudying the enrlal e s tion of the county, but which none c a n use with o ffs „ except those who are entrusted with the administ ra f l o w , of public' affairs. I allude to the deposits and the 1%1'1'4 . e. drawals of the Savings' Banks. I know how delicate thing is the the task of correcting inis-statem en ts on sue, i t a subject : but if there are misapprehensions with resq to the condition of the country, it is right that they= lit n o t ? be corrected. lam not at all denying the existen ce distress •, but I think I see in the paper which I hold s ,, my hand indications of an improvement, which at b% forbids the apprehension which has been expressed in universal bankruptcy. It is an account of the s ' l paid into the National Debt Office and withdra,ll:o by the trustees of Friendly ", and Saving St' cl n t ties in three successive months in the Pre se i t it year. The return is for the United Kingdom. the month of June, 1841, the sums paid in amoun t s to 66,442/.; the s ums d rawn ou t i n t h e same mo nthlyr; 86,364/., exhibiting th e me l anc h o ly f act t h a t the s ain ht : drawn out in that wonth excee d e d t h e sums paid in I t the sum of 20,0001. In J u ly, h owever , t h e sums 44 into the Savings' Banks amounted to 124,9001, ou l t i e the sums drawn out reached on ly t o 87,0001. In " a month of August the sums paid in were 100,00 0 ! , the sums drawn out only 50,0001. Now, observe, tir t b l y June.the sums drawn out exceeded the sums paid„ .al 20,0001; 'in the month of August the sums pail- , L e l li e 'to ceeded the sums paid out by 50,0001., and amounThly double the sum withdrawn. Whether this was p a ' f be owing to the confidence engendered throue-hout„-0,- country in consequence of the change , of A'dmini e s ,' tion I cannst Hear. hear," and laughter both sides of the House.) The Hon. Gentleman blij ( joe take a partial and interested view of the subject. mt of my reasons for hoping f or an i m p rovemen t iF t t ' o d see an increased confidence through ou t th e co untry ; least those impressions which I entertained b e f ore are at ' e al d confirmed by the fact—it may be only s i mu ltaneous' ti t not stand in the relation of cause and effect . "' %. whereas in the month of rJune the sums drawn ou t e ge ceeded the sums paid in by 20,000 L, when the Pr e : e .. of a new Administration appeared about to be by lised, the sums paid in exceeded those drawn ou t n o 50,0001.—(Hear, hear.) I state the fact—l dra w . 0 1 inference from it, except that it constitutes an a ddict to reason for pausing before we attempt too S uddenly apply a remedy for distress. Up to the 11th of,SeP t ber the sums paid in had been 32,000/. and the l o g drawn out 20,000/. It is true that a great proportion of O ne deposits are made by the retail deal e r s , but it is g e t o f rally admitted that their prosperity is a correct to this that of the working class e s. It ma y b e s aid that ' fit . return comprises the agricultur a l as we ll a s the ma the facturing districts. This table, however, com prises amounts paid in and withdrawn i n L anca shire, v"* lt a shire, Cheshire, Glasgow, Birmingham, C o ventry. a n d Norwich. The gross total of the sums p a id is 123, 32 , 911 1 1- of those drawn out 114,3781. ; showi ng , e ven in the -aid nufacturing districts alone, an increase in the sue s P o re in as compared with those drawn out. lam quite 5 , 0 v that great distress exists in Lancashire, but our In 00 must be taken upon general results rather than "Pbe individual cases. Now I find that in Manchester invits last three months the sums paid into the savings' b;1 ; amounted to 25,3501., and the sums drawn out to 22, 74 i . so that in Manchester there has been a considerable,iich crease in the sums paid in as compared with those v". to • have been drawn out.—(Hear.) It really is of grea t ye portance to look calmly at this subject. I think eat, shown that her Majesty's Government are not indiffe. t I refer to this document, not for the purpose of d en P -1 ()i the distress, but because I deprecate that exaggeration st it which would demand immediate, precipitate, and rnthe delusive measures of relief.—(Hear, hear.) Sic' ter Hon. Gentleman says, that in the town of 3.lanc" the Conservative candidates who came forward ha d scribed upon their banners " Cheap bread, no Corn - liti` e no Poor-laws, and high wages, Murray and Entswi st If that was so, it is remarkable that it is the only . which was referred to, and in that the effect was a" tire failure. This unfortunate candidate, in a man n ip e o turing district, who inscribes " No Poor-laws an" / 0 , Corn-laws" upon his banners is rejected, and the It ° o , Gentleman is returned. lam convinced that the co on try approves of the reserve which I have maintair.eatio, the subject of the Corn-laws. Our attention 0 ' co , indeed, been called to the subject of be• to the Poor-laws, and to the Corn-laws ; but my fir m t he lief is that the intelligent and. thinking portion Or the community in the three kingdoms will think that, in d constitution of a new Corn-law, under the ' 3 ' 2 ' l 'l of one who has been excluded from p ow er for a p eriod be ten years, it is rational and ri g ht th a t there sh e c til i s e time for mature deliberation an d th e a doption 0 ' :of measures ; that we should avail ourselves of those oPr c ;o0 tunities of inquiry which access to oftkinl infoor t i t en can alone give ; and that being acquired, we shoal'', h iell call the attention of Parliament t o th e measurestoe we have to propose, and leave Parliam e nt to det ell " . 1 5e whether those measures are f o nnded on just C ad 6 00 - principles or not, and whether they are likely to be ducive to the permanent welfare of the country. " t hee Mr. MARK PHILLIPS said he knew not ' t hose the country would be satisfied with the jokes, be o le jokes good or bad, to which allusion had bee n ro by the Right Hon. Baronet ; but he knew that he t he Mark Philip) could not treat lightly the distress r r e•- people. He was convinced that unless some On e )7 ,01 lief was offered, and the channels of industry re .° P - the they would have to deplore .the want of order it' at be coming winter—to witness scenes which all wi;lh.el 3 addressed must desire to prevent. In the , o ing which he had the honour of moving at the el" re. of the Session, in that part of it which iv° her tained by the House, thanks were given r ate d Majesty for having called together the new l'a r , a l , tie°, at the earliest possible period to take into coni l( L e h l e matters of deep importance to the country. O n t t ,d tha t of June the Right Hon. Bart. (Sir R. Peel) st A- 0 , in his opinion Parliament ought to be dissolved I 60 0. diately, and that after the dissolution it should b e moned with the least possible d e l a y ; a nd he sai d „ be t o the ground of the immense a d van t age it wool" re fer commercial men to know what would be done i n " t o ence to the Corn-laws, as well as with reference arse change in the executive Government. Under theseoti tilt r 6 cumatances he felt greatly disappointed at Flit' c o pursued by the Government in postpo n thee ar February the consideration of measures of relief. how great were the financial difficulties of the cotliecicle He did not, therefore, wish the Hon Baronet to L: at to hastily, but he implored him not to allow Parlian i t b ta, be prorogued. Let him take a fortnight or s %l e r& consider what measures he would propose—but hel°'„,,,ing him not to allow the winter to pas s ove r without 1 3 11;e 1 ° some remedy for the distress of the people. H e there was nothing unreasonabl e i n such a stig 9 - veil/ He had had to present to the Government a merne r ' n °f ing them to represent to her Majesty the neee s 'corn; the House not separating before the subject of 0 % 0 0" laws was taken into consideration. If the Govi horn r were not prepared to make any alteration in tii i ebeet s ' laws, let them tell the people so at once. --k, 0 00 3 e and cries of " Hear, hear.") If he was t° ;00; from what hatlifallen from certain Memb ers o f the G °l n e t - bitig,% —that it was their opinion that the C orn -l aws had rd tied do with the distresses, let the Go vernment come u'r-,:sitorle declare that such was their opinion —( Hear, hear.) or een;; declaration of that kind would not require much time ' — d ue, deration.—( Hear, hear.) He was anxious nut to tresP a .. ; the House, but he must repeat what he had stated hc f° , — t he. House, as the solemn conviction of his own mind. th a n - ro viej°i dutdry of the country was paralyzed by the present laws.—( Hear, hear.) What he urged upon the " ° ,..ar t le was that they might not be permitted to separate bef:.,, t of mas, without taking into consideration the g. eat 9° 'O3 V t :, Corn-laws.—( Hear, hear.) The people had taker) °.P r inter in tion themselves ; they saw it was to th!' es „ and he thought it was the duty of errth re present the seG e ie their places, and urge upon the Right Hon. Baronet rta i n ieg sity of affording the House an opportunity of en k t e ) great a question before the winter sot in.—(Belirialon.. pat Mr. EW ART said the main paints of the disco" el net's speech was, that he was,not indifferent to the „areaold .. the Right the country. He . for. one believed when he stated that; and his next point was that he t.n." bt tn given time. Nov he (Mr. Ewart) was prepared to g_I T : time, but the question was, what time was to be " g ive he ' 6°l' e. month or . two, but we . could undersiand the delay of bt 5, Baronet seemed determined to preserve. He thou , : sioo from it the most unfavourable conc iu ro b e There was a more dangerous intento,4 cot agree :to the :prolonged silence which the Righ t tbc people would , draw . revolt the Right Hen. Baronet kept his was, that the contentions 5 t • betweg" ee dltagricultural interests would increa gig h . manufacturing epoap rn(uyiHueadfhneseac likelyemenrdusrheienangidrfa)nt intrude upon the silence of the the Honourable Baronet. He could not consider ,the tours Minister of the Crown, when the country Government were pursuing as consistent with the duty 0 6 6 a state. What had Mr. Huskisson said ? Why, that ditto it of the country, if taken in time, might be remediedi; allowed to continue they might never be overcome. „see not one of those who thought that free-trade measurese rota' tea for all the existing evils, but he thought, looking "'e / rity, that those principles were like to benefit the cool les ° He thought if ever there was time when the prineP a free -trade should be carried out, in order to alleviate t orf tress of the country, it was the present. He trusted t 1 :1 8 0 0 0. would not wonder long' at the silence of the Big • ir Baronet.--( Hear. ) • f the.° d Mr. WALKER bore testimony to the distress o f a st them districts. He confessed that h- had never witng them in such a state. The property of the capitaltst:_d wasting away by the depreciatioa of fixed capital . ,.'; tl: debts. In the borough he represented moree whole rental of the borough had been : s , e ,, tr os e l „, was in so distreo4, from the manufacturing interests. Filch was the tu'itiete id that borough, that the only two mills they stop:Jed, and the operativ , s turned adrift. I" . 1 t wit been told that the Cern-laws were the cause 0 1 est 0 0 4 tresses. and they were c,n,inced that they were the r.. 0 st° ,k , of all their suffering. He did riot know what m 8 a' vai:l intended to he brought forvia , d by the present . U? 7 tP' but he trusted that they would think of the Sufter g ' - flare manufacturing district. ht , lion. ,e Sir JOHN ' EASTHOPE would ask the Rig • c rest •, numbers, . that the winter would pass without that ye whether he expected with augmented suffering 511 : 1 0 , In re tcb 5, 6 e ness existing which would make it d fficult to quiet of the country? He thought before Pedul n e up something ought to be done that would stay t" i o tetro r d There could. be no t doubt that the present Mintstet-!vo, :o le o to do little or nothing with respect to the Cern' t i n gs a n the declaration of several of its Members on the hus.pi they &sewhere, that they intended to stand by the p rint O ' D t e rY °I P hi.d hitherto professed was recollected. Was the eo rt. 9, 1 0/ 1 to have mere expressions from the Right Hon. 53 . . 0 „ sorrow for the distresses of the country, but no remedy P" preseeort br,ooe, , 1 e thi we by till pr p 0 co co