The Sun. — London, England, 1828-05-31 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF COMMONS, MAY 30. The House met to•day for the first time after the Whit suntide holidays. . Mr. Alderman WOOD presente d a petition from the Warders and.. Company of the Thames Watermen, against certain claw** in the London Docks Bill. .':'y:.-MINISTERIAL CHANGES. Mr. PLANTA moved that the Speaker do issue Lis- writ . for the election of a representative to serve In Parliament, for the Shire of Perth, in the room of Lientenant-General Sir Georg() Murray,. who since his election had accepted the office of sue of his Majesty's Principal Secretaries of State. On the question being put from the Chair, Mr. HUME rase—He • was quite aware that he bad noright to rontroul his Majesty in the selection of his iVlinisters, but as a Member of Parliament it was eompe tent in him to express the opinions. he had forineul.in CCM sequeuce of the recent changes which had taken place:— In the present state of our finances, when it appeared that the Colonial Establishments were drain* this country, when it was too notorious . that in almost every colony which had a Rtilitary Governor, discontent and Oisosn tion prevailed, he for one anticipated that much goiel would wise from the Administration of the Right Honourable . Gentleman who very recently filled the office of Secretary for the Colonies. He hoped that within a very short period he would have been enabled to congratulate this country upon the reduction of the Colonial expenditure, and to congratulate the Colonies upon 'their improved system of governtuent, which, whilst it al layed their discontent, would place them in the situation of supporting their own establishments. That hope appeared to have no foundation. l.e could not look at the Cornelius, where the Governments were sustained by the Government at home, in the most arbitrary proceedings, he could. not contemplate the traosactions now going on there without apprehending the most disastrous consequences front them ; be .could not therefore look otherwise thin with re ret at the retirement of the Ilight Hon. Gentle man who latels° presided over the Colonies; and with the same feelings of regret did he regard the military aPpOint ment just announced. It had been that of an individual trained in the canip--accustomed to command and likely to have little sympathy with the feelings of our Colonies. Jae could not, therefore, but look at the appointment Lieutenant-General Sir Gorge Murray as u asiloositous circumstance. He did not meat' to de tract from, the military qualifications of that officer front what he had heard of him lie was induced to be lieve that he was a most excellept Quartermaster-General, and that one more obolisnt to the commands of his stiperior did not exit.—(Lind cheers.) No one could perhaps ex reed him iu his character of a 'military cfficer ; but Ile (Mr. Pantie) could not ferget what he had heard him otate in that House, namely, that ‘.‘ lie knew the British soldier well, and that be liked flogging better than any %Lug cheers.)—With such a sample' Of the about to be administered to the Co lsnieo, what soma the people of this country ex- . met front the clomp which had just taken place.— lie hail loo`lied at the Administration., of the Colo nies under Earl _Bathurst as highly disadvantageous, but now, when lie saw o military officer appointed to the same situation, he looked fero'ard to a worse state. He called on the. House to consider the state of the colonies and of our finances, anti he asked thent whether thq. must not he of the sante opinion as himself. Who, he asked, could en dure the system of introducing military subjection into a 41nntry of free institutions? Would not the appointment of civilians, except in one Or two cases,, be More in unison with our civil establishments? He therefore protested agtiitist Brie introdiiction of 'll. .Governnteot as subversive the principles of our constitution. Unless some effectual ,hope were taken to resist it we should have aotting military domination and extravagance.-,(Cheers , ) Col. .LtNDSAY could riot sit still and hear the obser vas, thins of the -Iron. Member. for. Aberdeen. W as it to be said that nriliLory command made in individual unfit for civil office? ilfas - it to he said that •he who had risked his life in the service of his country was therefore unfit to serve in a Civil D e partment, or that lie who had been brought up in honor ond . honesty was therefore grifit for a cavil situation ?..--a(Ileor, hear. )----The observations of the Roo. Member Were at least premature, and might hive been withheld until some ante plausible ground was I utTorde.l for- Vol objection. With regard to the iudividu4l whose appointment occasioned the preaepx. discussion, the I Gallant 111.1nber could assure the Hoare &bet few wer e bc , ...tßr qualified for the situation : .as a sollitsoo officer,.:Juit individual was enabled to know'the sentito4nta of the Colonist'; in most of them he had served, and was well acquainted with the interest of the colony,to which the Hon. Member Minded. • I Sir G. WARREICDER wan ready, kaos'ing as lie did the character oil%Sir G. Murray, to express his ! respect fin . him as i military nicer; every one who knew the ossoner in which he had discherged his military. duties niust mire him. But still the Gallant Member could not alloao t hi s oppor o so lty to p a ss w ithoott expressing the regret and dismay with whieli he regatrdell the events which had led to the motion then in the : Speaker's hands. Ile was sorry that a GoVernment which had .been approved of by the people and the House—which had inArodue,ed measures ,calculated to promote the best interests of the tannt\try—be was sorry that a Government ao constituted should be broken up on grounds so trivial, awl upon a question More fit to I be a child's quarrel than a Stotesman's. When he con sidered the state of this country, g as , respects her internal peace and external relations, he could not but regret that the recent olmoge had taken place at a time when every, thing was unseteed-oot measure virtually affelt:oo our. ;inertial. peace had istst been considered in one lames of She Legislature, . and was ,now awaiting the dotisiolS of the other. With respect to our external situation, ezialsl it be denied that a general war was now pending over the ,country? What could be more soogioes what more mis chievous, than at a period so eoentful to embarrass his Ma jesty'e Councils? He could not but deplore:s.ll,4 would be a most calamitous change under any cireunestsorCes, Put what must be considered most particularly so uritler hie eir nu Instances; in which wewere now placed. He regretted to see the illuetrions individual now at the head of his Majesty's Goveriamont pursue the atom which he now appeared to follow. , e.sery one in the cosintry must ad mire the extraordinary military services of that tudividital, and he (Sir George Wariender) entertained'the highest oul rairation of him; hut he could not refrain faint declaring; that lie had some fears as to his future eareer.—(Cheers.) He• hoped that the glories of his military achievements would not he dimmed by the failure of his civil adminis toation.—(lfear.) He assured the Holm that if this de bate had net been opened, lie certainly would not have said one word upon the sulject s but as it had, he thought the better coarse would be to express his opinion in a straight forward way. If public runtoor wet s ' to be believed, there was not the leastground for the miiiapwooonge„hich had taken place,. and which now agitated the ootsetry from one end to the other. Sir A. HOPE would take tip the attention of the iistose Sett tiar a short titre, to abode. to those observations of the lion. Member for Aberdeen whiti , referred to the discon tent alleged to exist in our colonies, oval the impropriety of ib v i t , g m ilit a ry governors there. fle deosied both these propositions, orol he thought that the case ots& to be judged by its real merits. For his non pert lie •v 4d soy, th a t i s a l mos t e very instance, military governments iii *heti:doilies had been an advasatage to the country; an d, certainly„ instead of increasing the expense, it decreased it--where the military became also the eiyil governor— and one individual was .employtal instead ftWto It was oven knoWn that Sir G. Away had performed the des tlf .every situation in which be hail keen placed in countr t mon, ).`oo higtely satisfactory to the Kin am' to the y. lie had insert,osited to the present situatkA by, the,free voice of his SovnKeign, not at his own solicitatioO, Jill a§ a ma to . s fit for the ;,,}t} ti office. Now, why a oto-ts, who had been disiinguisheciiisson arduous and honourable professpn-osseo'iO had received the oopfiilence of his consti tuents—audit.' ioson returned to tbAtil i ouse because of the way in which his mtlitary duties had boset ,discharged.- -should be considered by any single iudivi:luel aeadisqua lified to bold that situation to which it was the ptiOsalest . boast of this country any man, hoiv,,wg low his previous condition, might attain, he was At a Ipso to .conceive.— Was it possible that the Hou se of Cgttunon p:} which there were so Many gentlemen dittiegoished in the og fession of arms, could view with peseoliar jealousy the elevation ofot mart who had lung beets daeoted to his se rvice? It should be r;ernetn cour;try and his country 's came forward to serve bis hired, that Sir George MurraY country when it was considered i e disgraye,to be ieactive, when it was a reproach not to he useful, .Aught lid then to be deprived, for this very reason, of an Aunity of serving his country still more materially, by, discharging the duties of an office which luie Sovereign had conferred neon hint, and which duties his Severeign laid called upon him to perform? The late Secretory for the Colonial Department was 'a gentleman, .than . whom there was no one more deserving the gratitude of his .cOmo try, and no one could more sincerely regret his leaving the office than he (Sir A. Hope) did ; but it should be remem bered, that though his experience was great, he was not the only experienced person in the country. Sir George Murray had intermixed with almost all our Coignes, and knew their various situations well. AS Adjutant-General in the West Indies, he must have bad alitutilant ()vertu.. nities of becoming#NuAinte.l with the state of affairs in that quarter. And in the Canadas particularly, he had been placed by his Majesty, under ciretwastancei 'which must have enabled him to become intimate with the condi • ticn of that important part of our colonial dotniniens. Sir George Murray, therefore, could not be supposed t, be un fit to hold the station to which he had been called. The SPEAKER then put the question, upon which Mr. HOSHO V SE said, that front what he had hea l * he must conclude - that the appointment of Sir George Mur ray might, udder the ciriminatances of the country, be as proper as any which his Majesty might be advised to order, hut he trusted that they would have a settlement. of the Administratioe.—,(Hear.)—Every body was aware that better understanding must take place, and that some system must be resorted to which would put an end to a st4te of things in which the whole policy of the kingdom was con tinu diy subject to change. The cottony must be asimred that the Administration was formed upon principle. hi. was scarcely credible that in thirteen short'montlis they had had no kis than ibur Prime Miaistere, so that it was in ,vain to look any where for responsibility. In this very. Colonial department there had been four Seceetaries within thitteen months, and -this at- a periild when a nitwit. greater nicety, was required • in • the managehtent of the Colonies than at any Minter period. If they' loOked to the West Indies, where so many delicate questions were continually arising ; or if they turned to the East Italics, the whole Government of which it would be necessary before lung to remodel, the importance of having some fixed system - to be acted upon and recognised by that House and the country twist be obvious. As .matters were at present, thedis tance -of some of our Colonies was such, that they could scarcely Lear of the appointment of one Colonial Secre tary befote his place was ccrupied by a successor. This department was in fact the most difficult of all the Go vernment offices, and it was highly important, therefore, ' that some understanding should be come to, .as to the - line of policy to be.permanently adopted.—(Hear, hear.) Every Ministry which had sat on the Treasury Ben6heo bad .been treated with indulgence and confidence bythe Muse, but whilst those changes continued to. take place, the house could nut continue to repose its confidence. For his own part he was willing to repose hiscoofidence in any Ministry, that would give a guaranteewf its being esta blished on perthanent principles. But lie assured 'the House that•the, constant changes which ; load taken place struck , every reasonable Mind with miaapprebension. • Lord NORMANBY_ said, he merely rose to call•upon the house to consider the inconvenience of pursuing the' present discussion in the absence of all the Ministers. He certainly thought that Ministers might have been in the . House; but, bring absent, they bad no reason to com plain of the manner in which they had been defended. by those who, as military art angements were the order of the day, .might be considered. as the advanmd guard of the main body.—(Laughter.) Sir A. HOPE wished to know wbethee the Noble Lerd meant to insinuate any thine bearing on the characters of the Military Gentlemen who . addressed the House. Was it meant to say that he was going to accept office, whew he was stated to have come forward as an advanced guard ? Lord NORNIANBY assured the Gallant Officer that he meant nothing in the slightest degree disrespectful. Mr. W. PEEL only rose to repeat what had fallen from the Noble Lord, that it was extremely inconvenient to pursue the present discussion in the absence of, his • Ma jesty's Ministers, who were attending a Cabinet Council, which was. still sitting.—(Hear.)---The writ was tben ordered. • The Speaker Was also directed to issue writs for a Repre sentative for the Borough of St, he., in the room of Mr. Charles Arbuthnot, who had accepted the office of Chan cAlor of the Duchy of Lancaster. For the county of Westmorland, - , to the room of Lord Lowther, :who hall accepted the office of, Chief Conortis sioner :of Woods and , Forests.' For Durham, in toe room, of Sir Henry Hardinge, Who accepted the office. of Secretary at War. For..-Totness, in the room of Mr. Courtenay, who ac.. cepted the office of VicePtesident of the Board of Trade. And for Plymouth, in the room of Sir W. Cong,reve . deceased: • - . Sir .I.•NEWPORT gave notice that nn Tuesday next he should. move that an ,addrets be presented to his•Maj4sty praying that the office of Treasurer to the NaVy 'night hot he until the House would have time to consider whether the office could not ,be consolidated with stPne other nary board for the purpose of abolishing that office. . Mr. DAVENPORT presented a petition from the silk= manufacthrers of -Macclesfield, complaining of diStress kad praying for relief. Mr. 'H.. GRATTAN presented a petition from sluire helders in the Hibernian Jcint Stock Banking Company, agatioat the Hibernian Joint Stock Bank Bill. Mr. Alderman WOOD presented a petition from Rams gate, againq Negro Shivery. - Mr. lIIII.NDAY presented two petitions from Derby, praying for the:Abolition of Slavery. ' • Mr. DUNCOMBE presented two petitions from York shire, against the Importation of'Foreign Wool. g , ir T. GOOCH presented a petition from Suffolk, praying for the abolition of Slavery. , 411..g0D presented a;•petition from Sudbury; in favour of time Roman Catholic Claims. Sir D. BARCLAY .presented a petition from Penryn, prt.ying for the,abolition of Negro Slavery. Mr. EGERTON presented a petition from the Silk Throwsters of Congleton, complaining of distress, and praying for relief. 44, PAYENPORT supported the prayer of the petitioTh Mr. W. K 431., brought up a Return of all Courts in England aud Wales having. power to grant Probates of Wills, and also a copy of the Nineteenth Report of the Commissioners of Public. Charities. Lord GEORGE LENNOX presented a petition from o:he Anpgregation of Providence Chapel in Chichester, e gaipst Avt4er concessions to the Homan Catholics. Colonel NtAhrint..Y presented two petitions from the members of the Weg'it (lead Friendly Societies Northamp ton, against the Friendly Zo,eieties On the motion of Mr, SPRINP RICE, the further consideration of the rights of Executors Bill was postponed e z i Thursday next, and the second reading of the. Pro ii;-,dea (Ireland) Bill was postponed to Friday next. - • General GASWYNE., on the suggestion of Alderman Thompson, postponed his .a,lotion relative to the decrease of British Seamen to this day fer,tnight ; but he pled g ed himself not to abandon the 'notion. ;;,jr. BUCK presented a petition front Exeter against the Smattlarotes' Bill. • Mr. CURTEIS could see no objection to a limited care ciliation of one-pnanj notes, rind be should, at some future period; make a motion to that effect. Mr. 111 4 LEOD presented a ,petition from Sudbury, pray ing- for the abolition of nelro slavery. nualE preeented a petition from the naatadtants 'and manufacturers a Dnudee against the Corn Xlesolo tions,.which. in their opinion were calculated to ir.rep the price of corn unreasonably high, Mr. HUME moved for returns of the Repeoue of the holm) Presidencies, and the amount of .their respe4ye 4..1,4 , 04i:ring the two years 1826 and 1827. The lion. Gentleing4 4en gave notice that he would, on Tuesday next, move for - 4eti.: -, ate pef the Receipts of the Prerogative Court of the Areltdiovesi of g „.. 4 ,,bury. • Mr. WM. sAirrit preareate.4 pptitionfrom the owners of lead mines in Derby, praying itg a t.tty ,fit sou foigign leg! ore, Mr. 11.4ysDEN presented a petition from New Mal don, prayi ng ec),-, the abolition of Negro Slavery. Mr. SEYMOOR resented a petition from the Sur geons of Glasgow, prayiti; fo.tilitiee to the study. of g.natotny. L . 414 Tur.LAmonE presented a petition from . ea !a more ip the k4no's county, relative to the sale of bread. Mr. WELL:?' 4 -,, e;:; t e d petition from Maidstone , aga i l st the Aleltense L,ieenei i/ g R . ll • OP the kucit;°4' URDETT the further con sideration .of the Report en tf,te Freehold flegiate4 : r Bill was postponed to N( 0 ,0,. next. • _ • LAW eQ,)Ajj,sgioNs. Mr. into the of asked 10,4tiker Vie Commissions 'to enquire aereal property, aa,,,l'elp into the, zetice of the common law, were com p le ted , and vi;Atlie;.• there t-,v any objection to lay copies of th ose Conimie sions upon tie? the . House. Air. secretary 07.,f4,, r /The Commission to enquire into Po:practice of the COIIIIIIOI/ f l/9,V vas complete, but lie . believ'ee the other Cotnmissiori had . I:qt 1 . 3 y - .t been signed. t a hal lil l i t i e is to s h i O n u l l i‘ d a , a‘ i l it tY 4l o i: r The•Comn4eners rated, and he ha gp under doeuabctl o 4 them before the House. two, be able to lay cope .; motion of Mr. 1:10i;:g PRUMMOND, the wasitstpon postponed nduy peat. Ale-itQuses Bill, :11 MISCEI4_ , ANEdUS s• ,the motion ot v 'the gm 4 ancE9n of the EX CE- Q uEtt,thegqrse resolVet:Rself into a P:Anini ttee Mr.i..)AWSdN moved the.fast resolution, 0.401 wits . , the del; that'24o,oo o J. be grarate4 to his Majesty,to &fray e orati,ne;encies of 1328. The ;Po . . Gentleman observed, that the best course for him to adept woniti from nny observations,uutil liche;id what oleteettens were made to the grout: be Again Mr. HlJMEcomplained that so many items were Oasset; under a single head,- and thought it much better that they should be separated in the estimates, in order that each might be dealt.with upon its own merits, Mere was, ft) instance, under the present head, such a, sum as 8,0001. 10,0001. to the commissioners appointed to inquire into the government at the Cape of Good Hope. As he had men tioned that vote, he could not help observing how extraor dinary it was that they should go on paying, money from year to year for commissions which had hitherto done nothing. This commission was of five years' standing, and yet the House had seen nothing from them but a few garbled ex tracts from a report, which did not enable the. House to form any opinion on the subject which they were aplointed to investigate. In hie opinion Parliament - ought to have the whole of these documents before them, that they might kno/v what the opinion of the Commissioners was with re spect to the misgovernment of which they had heard so many complaints. Whenever he brought that subject before the House, he was told that when the Commissioners made their report, then would be the time to enter into the dis cteseion. He was therefore anxious to know if they had come to any decision, and if the House was to be made ac quainted with the result of the commission of inquiry. lie wished also to know if the sort proposed in the estimate was to pay all the expenses of that c ommission, and if Parlia ment was to expect any report from them at all. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER hoped that he should sounite able to bring forward the report, and to answer the questions which the Hon. Gentleman had now pot. Mr. HUME said, that a million of money had been paid in the course of the last 20 years for commissions of in quiry, in return for which, we bad only received extracts and abstracts, and all sorts of partial and garbled statements. Mr. DAWSON observed, that the suggestion of the Hon. Gentleman for separa'ing • the estimates, might form a proper s ubj ec t for the Finance Couitnittee, but could not he entertained on a motion, or in a Committee like the present. Sir J. NEWPORT agreed with his Mon. Friend In thinking that Parliament had a right:.to the whole of the reports, and ought not to be satisfied with mere extracts. • The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the Hon. Baronet must have misunderstood him if 'he con ceived him to have denied the right of Parliament to•the whole of the Reports. He had merely alluded to a . par ticul ir instance, in which the Hon. ,Baronet himself had agreed at the time. • • Mr. GORDON maintained the right of ParliaMent to a full and complete report of the Commissioners whom they had appointed. Mr. PEEL on the part of his Right ]lon. Friend, could not mean to deny the right of the House, but to expect only such cases of individual difference as Might not to be re vived unless connected with sonic question relating to the public service. . Mr. BARING could not agree in the distinction drawn Lmy the Right Hon. Gentleman, for he seemed to forget that the whole of those "questions between the colonies and their governors were of a personal nature. All the petitioners complained of the gross misgovernment of individual!, and it was to be remembered that every one of our great colo nies had now come forward with complaints. Villas the Gallant Officer now at the bead of that deportment could devise some better mode of governing the cohnies thin had hitherto been adopted, it was to be feared that great evils would arise under the present system. If it was to be un derstood that every tia;ng of a personal nature was to be struck out from these repot ts, they never cork' understand the question between the Colonies :Mad flair governors. The case was different in any matter of a strictly private nature,' though even then he shoUld be sery jealous of leaving it to the colonial department to deride what was private and what was not. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER concurred in a great part of the observations which lad fallen front the Hon. Member ; but he wished that tht Hon. Member would give way to the general feeling of the House, and not force a discussion relating to private dfferences upon a public question. Mr: PEEL, in explanation, observed, that in what he had said he had merely alluded to privatedfferefices, which were known to exist at the Cape. Mr. HUME way of opinion;* that whea a public com mission was appointed, it might not to be in the power of Ministers to defer the presentation of . their report, because it contained maths either of a privateats terssamal nature: —As he intende!.l to take another*opportutit, y i saying a word or two on thesereports, he wett'allesve them with out further remark at "present, and math" preeeecl toaretice an item of 6,000/. charged for defraying the expellees in curred by the Commissioners appointed tocarry into eNet the 4th, sth, 6tll,.and 7th Atlieles of the Treaty of Ghent, between his Majesty and the. United: %tate. of A. 5 erica and another item o f 2,4001. char g ed for defrayin g the penees of the Commission appointed to carry iuto effect the Stipulations of the Convention signed at St. Peters burg'', in 1822, for the more effeetUal'execution of the Ist article of the same Treaty. The Chancellor of the Ex chequer bad, he 'believed, been one Of those Commis sinners; and, if he recollected right, the commission itself had been appointed soon after the peaCe of 1815. As it had already c mst the country between 70,000/. and 80,006/. he wished to know how long it was to coritinue—in what state of progress the negociationsavere—and when the pub lic was likely to hear of their having been brought to a ter mination ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that it would be in the recollection of the Committee, that it was arranged, under the treaty of Ghent, that Commis sioners should be appointed to settle the boundary line be tween the territories of his Britannic Majesty and of the United States. It was found that such a settlement cculd not be made without Commissioners being present on the spot; and in consequence two Commissions had been ap pointed. lie was happy to state, with regard to one of them, that their labours were already terininated, and with regard to the other, that their labours would terminate in the course of the next year ; so that after that period the committee would not be called upon to make any further grants upon this head. With respect to the item of 2,400/, regarding which the Hon. Member had asked for explanation, he would merely observe that it was ren dered necessary by the convention. which had taken place at St. Petersburgh. The Commissioners appointed by the two contracting parties to the treaty of Ghent had power reserved to them to defer arty point disputed between them to any foreign Court which was friendly to them both.— 1 disputed point had arisen, and ` the power appointed to decide it was the Court of St. Petersburgh. • - Mm. HUME—There is a charge of 4,000/. for the com mission established at Loudon acrd Madrid, fur carrying into effect time convention concluded at Madrid in March, 1823 s for settling time claims of British and Spanish subjects. I wish to know whether that commission has made any and whet progress in the execution of the task for which it was. appointed ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER.--A ne gotiation is at present carrying on upon that particular sob ject, but what may be the result of it I*cannot anticipate. The great object of it is to be relieved from the expense of maintaining the commission. Mr. 111 WE said, that this commission had now twat in etistence five years, had cost the country 20,000/., and had effected exactly nothing. Iu the present state of Spaiu, be thought that we ought to put a speedy termination to thi,e posannission. If we did not, we.-should onlylme throw. lag Owl Metal after that which we had lost already. If the finances of Spaip shook', contrary to all expectation, became more healthy, we mold the;} renew oar claims with a much better chance of success. lie else w ished have some explanation of the reasuus why 5,000/. was to be voted to the commission for inquiring into the nature extent of the' instruction afforded by the several insti tutisins it:Cland established for education ; and why 1,500/. was to be voted le flie s ConAkfop fps Inquiring into the practice of the Court of Chaneer- s a Mr. DAWSON replied, but in so indistinct a tone that we beard nothing, except his declaration that both these fi.orrnissions were now extinct. 11,1/Z4 ;hen proceeded contend that'the country was now paymg Pr its 4ii;;qlp ; sti , ! services than "Y other count's , in the hordes • time charge of 226,000/. on the civil list, for diplomatic services, -there ii' s' a charge . of 42,0001. fur the extraordinary disburse ments of Alia;stars of foreign courts. Ile b Viet after the Atomise usage wu this eubjTectlaiasdt expected t l e t) i r ! Mr. Canning, win's; relletion'would lave i,eea q.age in this hraUcl; of the expenditure.' It was a alai* I thV r6 , i' w 4j a ; o l 9Vlo t° ll . 4 l . l' re e ' d v u A l7e l :l ? or `Tbehechtity.w'asit'unaysliil79l!g,t. geed Aliniters refused tYra4culti ;i;ii . o;ii wg'lthl o on, was afraid, to the end of time. Chas sorry to See among the presents to persons of distincti;i,so6/, charged fur a present from his Maj es ty to the-Brazilian Chancery, 7in fhb eachasiese of the ratiticatione of the treaty o f amit y and conimergi, * slieded set ao ,iay4; f o pus and the EMpe - tor of Bri'zit; and agai 004 charged foss a present flann his Majesty to the Mexican Chancery, en fa somewhat similar occasion. Now these charge , i were novel in nieste,el a y, DO ought, ho contended, to be disallowed in future: . He vas green to undeest4,4 Ijise 41e451q 1444 adopted' the. law of the United . &:lAti, by VlllO was utade penal I,i• any g ef the'Public servants to i s eeive pre s!ents f i rom loseige ports. ' He could scarcely believe that this expenditure conld )lave takes Rlaee t ea it was, so dia metrically at variance with what he understood the lay of ,Ahlico 'to be. UeshOuld ther'efo i re was to know whe therl,oop/: had actually been paid . to the Chancery of Alexico, and whether such payment was not in direct con travention of the law of that country? With respe4 to . the presents to the Russian and French Chineery, he vould only say that they were charges which ought to be put an end to immediately. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could not give the Hon. Member for •Aberdeen any answer as to what was the law of Mexico, but he could give him a decided answer as to the fact _respecting which he in quired. When the Ministers for Mexico exchanged the ratifications of a treaty of amity. and commerce with the Ministers of this country, they made a present to the amount of 1,0001. to the Ministers of England, and the Government of England, according to diplomatic courtesy, was expected to return, and did return, a present to the same amount. ' . lir. HUME had long said that a stop should be put to this exchange of presents with foreign Ministers, which he looked upon as nothing else but bribery and corruption.— (Loud laughter.) He would ask the Hon. Secretary for the Home Department whether we ought not, after all the pains which we had been recently taking to snake electors honest, to take some pains to mike the high officers of state honest too. Captain O'NEILL wished to know whether the Hon. Member for Aberdeen wished to reduce those - who repre sented the Majesty of England to this wretched condition— that they should receive presents from foreign powers, and should not - be allowed to make them in return ? Mr. HUME thought that it would be a great saving to every country, if a stop were put to this practice of snaking and receiving presents. He did not impute dishonesty or Want of delicacy to the Ministers who made and received such presents, for the State allowed it, and therefore no blame could be attributed to them in their private capacity as men of honour. What he wished was to see the prac tice put an end to. There was another item in these esti rnates, which appeared to him to require some explanation. There was a charge of 1,2001. odd, for " robes, collar, and garter for the Emperor of Russia, K.G., and water men's badges." What was the meaning of this charge for " watermen's badges ?" Mr. DAWSON.—The charge for waterman's badges was only 651., the rest MIS for the robes, collar, and garter, presented to the Emperor of Russia, :on installing him a Knight of the Order of the Garter. These two charges were usually classed in this manner together. Mr. HUME, whilst upon this subject, wished' to know whether there was any truth in the rumour that the fees of the gentlemen recently elevated to the Peerage for their diplomatic services, had been paid by the Treasury ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER assured tl.e Hon. Member for Aberdeen that there was not the slightest foundation for such a report. —The grant was then agreed to. Mr. DAWSON proposed that a sum not exceeding 29,000/. should be granted to his Majesty to defray the salailes and allowances to the officers of the House of Lords and Commons for 1828. Mr. HUME.—Why is this charge greater this year than for several of the years which have preceded it ? In 1824 only 21,000/. was asked for this vote; in 1826, only 23,000!. Why were they now to grant 29,000/. ? I understood the Right I-lon. Gentleman opposite to say, When he brought forward his budget at the commencement of the session, that there was to be a reduction of 1,200,0001. in this branch of the public estimates. Was it in this manner that the reduction was to be made? Mr. DAWSON could not conceive that his Right Hon. Friend near him could have promised to Make a reduction of nearly a million and a-half in a branch of the public ex- ' penditure which did not cost the country at the outside more than 600,0001. The reason why the sum asked for this vote was larger in the present year than in several for mer years was, that the balance, which had remained in hand for same years past, was now entirely exhausted. Mr. 1-11J14IE never expected that the Right Hon.,.Gen-- tleman would make a saving of 1,200,0001. in these esti mates. He appealed, however, to the House whether the Right Hen. Gentleman had not promised to make a reduc tion to that amount in the estimates generally. Mr. MABERLY was of opinion, that a vote of this amount ought not to be submitted to the consideration of the Committee without a single line in explanation of it. lie thoUght that it ought not only to be stated in detail, hut to be referred annually to a select committee to decide on its correctness. • The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—This vote consists of a number of small charges made annually and paid annually. The.details have been often given be fore, and therefore it was deemed unnecessary to repeat them on the present occasion. Sir J. NEWPORT—If these charges were made an nually and paid annually, what need is the, e of Laving any balance In hand? The terms to the same. Alr. DAWSON—The charge must vary according to the labour done by the engrossing Clerks, and according to thenumber.of days-which the two Houses sit. If any Hon. Gentleman wishes for a detailed account of the man lier in which the grant, is to be expended, there can be no possible objection .trrhffording it. Mr. 11. GHAVrAllollected to' granting 6001. a:year to Major Powell, Inspector , gerieral of police in the Leinster district. He had got upwards of 40;000/. or 50,0001. of the public money by some fraud or other, and had in con= sequence been suspended by the Irish Government.. Was it right. to. make any further grant of public money to such a man? • The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not know any thing accurately of the circumstance .to which the Hon. Member referred.. He had never heard of any charge having been made against Mr. kowell either for fraud or for perversion, of the public money. He under stood that the money taken from the public had been taken by one of Alajor Powell's clerks, and that the worst part of the charge against him was, that he had not sufficiently exercised his vigilance over that clerk. He was sure that the lion. Member for Dublin would hereafter be sorry for what he had that night said. lie spoke doubtfully on the point at present, for he had no official information ; but he wanld take care to make all requisite inquiries on the sub ject, before the period olthe next meeting of the House. Sir J. NEWPORT thought, that as this officer had been suspended, it was a little too much to vote him so large a grant of the public money. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was understood to say that this sum was due to Major Powell, for his travelling expences in the course of last year. . _ Sir J. NEWPORT said that it was in evidence , before some committee (we did not hear the name) that he had not visited any county but his own for some years past. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER conceived that this could not be the case, for in the last year in . _ which he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had been in Ireland, he knew that this officer had visited several coN utie. Mr. J. GRATTAN trusted that the Committee would look with some attentiod to the expellees of the Police in Ireland. The grand juries had found that they could not check them, for they were told: on all occasions that' their expences were such as ware regularly allowed at the Castle. After a few,observations to the same effect from Mr. BUTLER, thin grant was agreed to. Mr. DAWSON proposed that a sum not exceeding 16,0001. he granted to his Majesty to defray the expenses of the Houses of Lords and Commons for 1128. After a - few words from Mr. 11u3 . 1E, this grant was agreed to. Mr. DAWSON then proposed that a sum not exceeding . . ps,,ilst, bp granted to his Majesty for the purpose of Maliing good the deficiency of the fee fund in the depart ment of his Majesty's Treasury, Home Secretary of State, Foreign Secretary of E.-..—,i - gtcretary of State for the Co lonies, Most Hon. Privy Council, and the Committee of Council for Trade for 182 i. Mr. HJThIE said, . that this was not the regular mode f puttiq, this grant. It was usual to rut, in the A r al ip sLoo, to the yote the slim waniA to make goOd the dec-. ciency of the fee fund in the Treasury. That stun amount ed in the present year to 21,0001. He believed that tke House was not aware that the expense of the Treasury amounted annually to 80,5421. The salaries amounted tq pt,pea ; the incidFitts to 122q0P1.; and the superanun ations and st a ti onary to 12,0001. ,He concluded by, repeating 'his •stateinent that this mode of voting was irre • gular. Mr. DAWSON contended that the inQtle whirl; kiG 124 atl - o:ted was the tisintil mode of putting this vote. He believed . that the HMI: Metnber for qberbrothoek was nais. taken as to The mount of salaries paid in the Treasury. Mr. HUMB Contended that he was not mistaken, for spoke from a retum maJe li;st yeah' to too ttuuse'by the. ri*Fasry. In 1114, the winile es*ce of Use department Of Treastiry was not more than 44,000/. The expense of it now was' twice as much as forinerly—why was this the case ? lie also wish4to know ivhat was the tr.744ing . the charge yiar4ants, bArit'Sbt4' said that the charge was made fur the payment' of, the issue of nets.patents to the Lords 'Of the 11'reasury,whAlr,• owing to recent'events, had been mote frequently issued of late ttlatt foroll4l,Yl P . ! 141444 was nt opinion that , these fees on patents aught' tolie 'abolished,' foe nothing could be more abaurd in principle than the•enforcement of them. He wished, Whilst, this grant was before the committee to make one observation on the expenditure of the department, win9h amoyited this year to 05;0004 Ambng the items of whicht it was made'up, lie saw one containing a charge of a ihansand . posmds to 111 r. James Stephen, as counsel to that board. He likewise saw another item of -charge of :AM. to the same individual as conusel to the Board of Trade. Now, he belieyed Mr, Jaws* Stephen to he in his individual character a most deserving man ; but, witiout . intending to. reflect upon that character, he must say . that his appointment as counsel to the Colonial Department was a most objectionable appointment, considering the situation in which he stood with respect to the dispute between this Government and what was termed the West Indian inte rest. It was said in the West Indies, that he had drawn up the - celebrated colonial letter of Mr. Huskisson. Now, "let that be as it might, Ministers ought to have paid atten tion to the representation of the general feelings of the West Indies on that subject. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had; in his intercourse with public office, known . the Learned Gentleman alluded to (Mr. Stephen), and believed him to be a man of honour and of complete impartiality. Mr. IL GORDON knew how delicate this queetion was Neverthelesi, although he gave full credit to the merits of Mr. Stephen, still such was the prejudice against him, and such was the very extraordinary coincidence between his (Mr. Stephen's) writings relative to colonial affairs, and the public acts of the Government.at home, alluding more particularly to the late despatch of the Colonial Minister (Mr. Huskisson), where whole passages were literally the same, that he verily believed no one circumstance would tend more to conciliate the colonies than—not the removal, for he , meant no reflection upon the,individual, but—the promotion of that gentleman to some other office. Mr. BRIGHT had no . desire whatever to speak dispa ragingly of Mr. Stephen, although he felt the weight of prejudice which called for his removal, and knew that it would be the greatest step which the Government could take towards the conciliation of the colonies. He looked confidently to a great improvement in the colonial system from recent regulations. Mr. HUME complained of the employment of certain persons in the public departments as colonial agents. There were in this manner agents for Demerara and Lower Ca nada, and he objected upon principle strongly to appoint ments of that description. Near 40,0001, was last year ex= pended in this manner for Colonial. agents, while only 9,0001. was so laid out during 1797. The resolution was then agreed to. - 31r. DAWSON then moved the resolution for granting 77,2284 2s. for defraying the contingent expences of the departments of the Treasury and Privy Council for Ib2B, which was agreed to. The next resolution was for a sum of 6,500/. for com pensation for the Commissioners to inquire into the revenue of Ireland and other departments in Great Britain. Mr. HUAIE said tl;,at the Act under which the Com missioners had inquired had ceased last year. It was quite time to have their report, particularly upon the Post Office (Ireland.) Mr. DAWSON hoped that the report would be speedily produced. Mr. HUME asked what could the Commissioners be about now, as their authority had ceased under the Act of Parliament ? Mr. HERRIES said, that although the Act had ceased. the Crown had given authority for the continuation of the Commission, to admit of the conclusion of its labours. Sir JOHN NEWPORT complained in the strongest terms of the want of due economy in the conveyance of the Irish snail. The Liverpool Steam Navigation company had offered to take the mail from Liverpool to Dublin gratuitously, yet, in defiance of such an offer, the Govern ment had thought proper, at an expense of 16,000/. ft= year, to establish packets of their own, and enter into in jurious competition with the Steam Company, at the public expense. Mr. HUME complained that the reportupon the Stamp Duties, ordered three year's ago in Scotland, and two years in Ireland, had nut been yet produced. These reports had been promised last Session, and he only waited their pro duction to bring the whole subject before Parliament. Mr. HERRiES vindicated the Commissioners from any unjust imputation by this delay. Mr. HUME reiterated his complaint at the extraordinary delay which had arisen respecting the Scottish Report. Mr. J. WOOD referred to the Liverpool Steam Naviga tion Company, as having offered facilities to the Govern- Ment in the transmission of the Dublin mail, which would, if accepted, have saved a large portion of the public money. Mr. DAWSON was .not insensible of the advantages . offered ; but there was a general post-office regulation against sending the public mails by private ships, over which the proper authorities bad no positive controul.- Although the offer, in the first instance, was gratuitous ; yet, if acted.upon, there was no doubt a charge would ulti mately be made. and . the Post-office thought it better at once to undertake the business upon their own responsibility. sz - pwycvsur et:}} Alat, the losers as Well as the steam company—the former by m -1 curring an.unnecessary expence, the latter by being ex posed to an expensive competition, supplied in an un called for mariner out of the public - purse. _ _ Mr. HERMES, reverting to the stamp report, had just learned that the ScOttiah report had been already presented and printed. Mr. BARING complained that the transmission of the Dover and Calais 'mail was as susceptible of economical regulation as that of the Liverpool and Dublin. Surely equal security Could be obtained from the private compa nies, as from the mail-coach proprietors, for the safe and certain conveyance of the bags. - The effect of competition with these conveyances, at the -public expense, was to drive out useful private speculation, fur the latter could not hope to go on with the former. Mr. BRIGHT complained of the irregularity of these private steam conveyances to the north of Europe. He bad himself experienced last year the inconvenience of their not bringing the letters when they were expected by them. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that these observations would receive due attention. Mr. P. THOMSON concurred in the opinion of the ad vantages to be derived from transmitting the mail by the steam companies, and the Rotterdam and another were always carefully and regularly conveyed in this manner. He was quite sure that a beneficial arrangement might be made for the public in this respect. Mr. BRIGHT again complained of the great inconve nience felt in the north of Europe front the delay to which he had adverted. Some regular system ought to be esta blished, and these steam-boats, when they professed to give facilities to the mail, should be bound to abide by the post office regulations. The resolution was then agreed to. Mr. DAWSON next moved for 7,0001. to defray the salaries of the officers of the Court of Exchequer. Mr. HUME complained strongly of the inutility of the Exchequer as a check upon the Treasury. It was an ob solete, extravagant, and useless establishment, and he hoped this would be the last year of its appearing in the estimates. The Hon. Member was reminded that this resolution was not for the Exchequer-office, hut for the Officers of the Court of Exchequer; and the resolution was then agreed to. Mr. DAMSON then moved that a sum not exceeding 9.531. ss. be paid for the salaries of certain professors of - Oxford and Cambridge, for reading certain courses of lec tures. Mr. lIUME did not rise to object to this grant ; but be hoped it would be a precedent for a similar grant to the London University, if talent were the real foundation of the claina.—(An lion, Member exclaimed, "and Aberdeen also.")—Aberdeen has it already. Mr. PAWSON next moved, that a sum not exceeding 13,6691. be granted to defray the salaries and expences of the Insolvent, Debtors' Court. Mr. Alderman WAIT HMAN complained in the strcmg , est terms of the institution, and expressed a hope *hat his Majesty's Government would get rid 4 the Court alto gether. Mr. HUME (or.the fiftieth time would submit to the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, the expediency of the total abolishing of imprisonment for debt. If the princi ple of the Bill lately introduced by the Hight Hon. Gen tleman were good for any thing, it should in his (Mr. Hume's) opinion be carried much further. • Mr. PEEL thought it would be much better to try the policy of the measure gradually. lie wan nos for advanc ing so rapidly as the Hon. Gentliv. - rian would , haste him, in the abolition of itnprisopment for debt. Mr. 111,JMU conceived, that the scale in the Right WV. Gentleman's Bill should be raised somewhat 1416", it the experiment were worth trying at all. Mr. PEEL said his Bill loft it at the option of the plain ! . tiff either to procod against the person of the defendant or and also the super hot goons ; but if he should bring it into a. (41' he could, not go against the defendant's person.. Tilt Bill also raised the amount from 21 . to 10 7 1 , i t li man WAITIIIII VN unty Court, After a few words frKA Mr, A . er • - , , the res,al44oo ryas put and carried.. , Oh the resolution for granting 4,79 0 / , tcT, Paying the salaries of the officers, awl, the contingent exFsticts a the idoved. al igliat swiry64 being put, oalTe.ntieafutifirntshoer'suipeeiii:rierra.iptit'llfelst.lrofneers formerly em_ ' Mr: A. BARING said, he saw from this estimate, that , while the chief clerk bad only 3051. a mi., a sinwran ',mated clerk bad GOO/. He shoult; Biro to know who-this superannuated clerk was who revi ve d 6 00 1 . a year, w hil e - I,' ": leic. I► . `d but the preypFt c tet c i fa , SOS/ per annum, and for what reason such a disproportionerl allowance was giyen to r a retired Officer. 'Mr. PEEL said, the individual to whom this superan nuation was allowed, had retired from the establishment in . 1813, af;er twenty years' service. The late chief clerk much more to do than the present. Since the present Alien Bill had come into operation, there was a material difference in the duti e s p er f orme d by thee o ffi cers, an. ife j had been consequently a gr e a t reduction msde in the 'l') attached to the office. Formerly the chief clerk!" ,superintend all the of fi cers of the e stabli s h men t, a nd 'r tend to various other matters; .but now his duty WO fined merely to the registration.of aliens. Mr. BARING . said there was another superaa4 chief clerk, to whom it appeared that 6371. a )14 allowed. He did not know which of these'chief cWr was ; but he happened to know that one of them, ‘"' demo of the name of Lee, was a t p resen t residen t,' nera, where he lived in great splendour, and k e pt riage upon the superannuation allowed by this court :4 (Hear.) While the cost of this entire establi 6 P , amounted to 2,038/., the superannuation a llef:i amounted to 2,530/.. It was surely necessary teal„ reduction should be made in such expenditure. Mr. Alderman _WAITHMAN recommended vernment to adopt the principle acted upon in the Pi, London, where all their superannuated officers •oref i t liged .to insure their lives.—The resolution was then Ea t , carried. official doeun homense mai Resolution The next t to , defr ay t h e t-; mainib s i one The resolu ~ 1 1E , who a ue by the them to to the I The next 98,6101. for for the sever 1828, • melud Mr. H 11.1; stationery of W 4 the sum t ° the differel ' lOll Would cc for one-third 6 ° o /. a-year ItOre-keeper The next resolution was fur the grant of a sum 01' seeding. 15,497 L ISs. Bd. to defray the charge allowances, or compensations granted as retired allow to persons formerly employed in public offices, or Jet wants, for 1828. per, "'tiger, 1,59 14 n, carters, °f 4 0,8241 ac =l°4 9, retired "Pense was Mr. MABERLY inquired by what authority the of 3101. 13s lid. for the superannuation alloWall surveyors,, inspectors, and stamp-masters of linen, Scotland, Whose offices had been abolished by A c t of liament, had been introduced under this estimate? Mr. G. R. DAWSON said, that .at the time the 0 were abolished, compensation to the amount of 1,51 01 ; j ' awarded to the officers, and of -that sum the BOB ; , Trustees for Manufactur e s i n ' S co tl an d agree d tilj 1,2001. upon Government a d vanc i ng th e rema i n i n g 5 / 110 Mr. MABERLY said it was plai n , f rom the 0 , Gentleman's statement, that Government had no s",_: rity whatever for ,introducin g suc h an i tem into these; mates. It Was peileetlY proper that these offices ; baie been abolished, but what right or authority O af Government to 'give allowances to the officers who ba been Governincht officers? These officers had bee' by fees, aed they had no claims whatever upon the ' verrment. st ationery, agreed to. The 'next : 13 defray th e or protiecutit far 1824.-:—. The next to defray thi Ironies of Pa The next to defray the The maxi 10 6,958/, tc maintaining, muds, for 18 HIM lids on boar Ivais of any s 4 which Mr. DAWSON said the grant had been sanctiotte4i. Parliament upon due consideration, and had beeo a in these estimates for three or fOur years smecessiyelr i After some further , conversation, the resolution agreed to. The next resolution was for the grant of a 1 14,3401., to enable his 'Majebty "to grant relief to , lonese and Corsican emigrants, Dutch naval officer' Domingo sufferers, and others who have heretufot e ; ceived allowances from his Majesty, and, who, from sef"i performed or losses sustained, have special claims up oo Majesty's justice and liberality." Mr. HUME b e li eve d there was an utiderstandiol, no addition would be m a d e t o thi s grant . H e peret l o ' that a reduction of 600/. had been made in this grant' last year. ' Pose Letter to sen Atr. PEI Who could acivautage ; te. that colon 24 uld shew t float usefull3 4 aval depart *as effected stead of se e held in h of heidthy co 1 4065 ; of s t!Pense of ow the es 4 little over The resolution was then put and agreed to. • ;1 The sun► of 2,500/. was voted to defray the expel ° the National Vaccine Establishment for 1828. _ 4 0 convicts 4en put to 73 ,000/. fro On the resolution for the grant of 3,0001. for the port of the institution called " The Refuge for the tute," for 1828, being put, Mr. Alderman WAITIIMAN thought a great deal alight be effected with the stint if a proper system O f • nomy were enforced in the institution. °Lily left three It dfper they had an annual expe Lilt if sent !iderahly ni Mr. numE by . no means object e d t o thi s - i ns til but he objected altogether to th e p r i nc ipl e o f . G ov er° supporting charitable establishments which should b e d to the voluntary support of th e p u bli c a t l arge . of 1(i aeived that this - grant was being gradually reduce"' 1826 it amounted to 5,000/. ; in 1827 to 4,000/. i in the present year it was reduced to 8,000/.,--lie that it would be still further reduced. Sir T. BARING believed the institution to be 04 ductive of the greatest utility, and he trusted that no f l , reduction . would be made in the sum granted for its ON Mr.' W. PEEL said, that in an interview which st h a last week with a gentleman connected with this ea 1 1 .went, he had been assured that the strictest econoiall practised there. He trqsted that the grant, instead 'of reduced, would be enlarged next year.—The resoled° then agreed .to. LeTlyaliestss for ur00f 18 4 2 ,5 8. 00i. was voted for the relief of Ata ri s. ;.• On the resolution for the, grant . of 3,604 J. 10a. to the exnences of coofin;ns said maintaining crimin a l 10 5 for 1828 being put, • Mr. HUME - inquired how many lunatics were for that amount? Mr. PEEL said the Hon. Gentlenian should not sue that the whole of that sum was expended in the mere tenance of the lunatics. It included also the expense' j curred in - the buildi ng an d repa i r i ng o f t h e es t a blishw , where the lunatics *ere confined, the salaries of the ke e , eo the wages of the servants and labourers, &c. Then 45 males and 10 females, is all 55 lunatics confined t 4 The charge for the m a i n t enance o f eac h was 4f1• 1 0 and the other charges arising from the pay o f 01 9 kespera,• &e., raised the amount to WI. each. ' 2 f sum was the total au appropriated t o th e m a i nte nance ° I lunatics, and the remainder of the grant went to defraY b expense of the repairs and alterations in the buildioP j Mr, W. PEEL said the expense of repairing an painting the building this year amounted to 3201. b Mr. HUME said, 80/. fo r th e ma i n t enance o f ° c o dividual was a great deal too much. In private 014 mints; liinatie;Were maiutained at a much soniL tOli hata not ex pease; and why the public should be called IVO e g,t, Pay bills dr at the rate of 80/: for each lunatic, appeared attrif slid others him. In the place - in Scotland which he (Mugoi , Geo. 111., represented, there existed an asylum for lunatics, ,i conformity he knew that QO/. was the outside of all' the esP e `f e i :S 1 808, and curred in the maintenance of each individual, and i t captured ne the general charge. Butidolcing at the rate t'l l2r° 0 . , AI Settlers.r. HI. this establishment, f u r the support o f w hich they , called ripen to vote this sum, he would say that i t W The CF third, or one half more than it ought to Ise. % 9 t hat it was .After a few further observations from Mr. 013- , board vase; Mr. Perm, 'the resolution was agreed to. - b 9 0 Mr. HU. The next resolution wa s f or a sum not exceeding - t and then tl 7e. 10d. for paying the' usual allowances to ?l o d. which he tl Dissenting ministers in England, poor French o °„ 7- if. „ Air. DA refugee clergy, poor French Protestant refugee 1. , ,,,, , Number. ' sundry small charitable and other allowances tn ' Pe ' berro es ' esi of St. Martin's-in-the -fields, and otbers. 1 'b ' t i a s e supporte Mr. HUME complained that there was no red° di '. Mr. R. . , to $, • this grant. The poor French Protestants caul - 01; lie would t country after the revocation of the edict of Nantes/ _.- t t' landed to protested against their living so long—(A laugh) -- . Stood it was expence of the country. ' . „,; e ld! , t leighbourir 'Mr.' /I ERRIES said, that, under . a regulation u'l bow sett l e d k ( If the settle , been recently made, the parties alluded to would sb' speedily. He had not doubt but that the sums now P-tiiit %her tribe to them wouliTall in befori long, and th e e xpenee"" ) thought thi extinguished. ' tigh t to rei Resolution agreed to. ' ed it) Pose the n( The next resolution was f or a sum not e -t e t oe' The Cr 49,0001., for his Majesty's foreign and other se_ . , cf " . 'ive no di vices, for 1828, cle;r of fees and all other deduciin" : j o rd' however, t Mr: Alderman WAITHMAN observed, that il l , be Seould not years, when this country was at war, there oi,ig nos id el Lord F. been a neeesaiiy for secret service money ; but, r - t hoif , ref er to sot , intotha present circumstances of the empire, both t it d ' l '!'om the it and abroad, he thought they might diminish this ',*'' Mr. R. 'siderable grant. ~ caw' twat an hill Arr. Arr. DAWSON said, that on a compar i son Wit' ha jlte' ' 'lot w as ,; years, it woribl be found that the present estimate .- Settled at i. . , reduced. „ o tli f • The CH Mr. HUME said, that thi s vote was f ore i gn a nd secre t s ervices : and h e s h ou ld b e g l a d to know t°- 0 1 ' ' 3 not ye t t Se ' Mr. R services the word " other" referred ? As Ireland/ to 1 °tight to I land, and England, were in a perfectly tranquil sta t.. 011 Sierra Leo be required for thntu. No secret service-money 'I I it 4 '" away w been recently necessary in England. He thoug ht 0 , 4 ctual hires fair to ask what proportion of this secret serv ir j; e rP l 1 411 ipted t ( was devoted to the use of the Home Department* if ag ' ' , es. some of it might find its way into boroughs; 01. ' - loc i ' „ Sir G. I neral election were coming on , a portion of it might 'roan • ployed in that . ~-, 0 ,, ,, ougrit di Mr. PEEL said, the money was strictly applie d it ° '"leted mu ' purposes for which it was voted. In 'this countrY Fernando., 1 been expended in the detection of dangerous 804 - 'ity. The conspiracies ; and past transactions stkowel the ), . 0 0 g , .• I t 'tit*.e v . having recourse to, such -a farad, A very sn' 3.. - . e a' ,'one w, t . been required; for t 1.84 nac4 year,—the total e xpeni ;Ilother be: Home .> ..• being only 1,000/. ~,,,4 . ' l gar plir I,(se. DARING said, the vote for e.ecou SeP:' - i ,00 4 .1 th Aft er a ought to be confined within as small a compass as IV resolut: Even 1,000/. he considered ae, a hirge 'sum for du' e t . Th e n ,, • • , , . ~, • . , lc , C. Department, , ''° o o/. I Mr. PEEL—There are some, past ;Minus si' c' ,e ' 41 4;" an( . V Poi transaction's of 1619. ,14 t' N rated on The resolution was . agreed to, after a few Fo s s ti'', 0 4 :'., p 'ha, Po i Mr. Alderman WAATHnA - N, who. again conteuto e ts' 11144 tro considerable reduction ought to be made in the ads e ?8 , 1,, .d thia item. /nil , ' . ft ! ( ) effect, The next reso l u ti on w a s for a sum not two Wag aaced 80,000/., to defray the expense of printing AO, tli C The ut , : • • tiir 4 %000/ merit, and bills, reports, and other papers, 0 , A. 0 of th ‘• • Houses of Parliament, for .1y82& c o c ora . e anal Mr. I-lUME could not see why the priatiogro,vo Or A rne, jo be done for nue-third of the preient expense. no s't 4, HI Mended . the course adopted in America end Fro kept up., '