The Sun. — London, England, 1841-10-01 00:00:00

MORNING SUN IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, Sept. 30. The Earl of SHAFTESBURY took his seat on the Wool- sack shortly before Five o'Clock. The Frogmore Estates Bill and the Royal Gardens Bill passed through Committee, and were ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. Messengers from the Commons brought up the Ex piring Laws Bill, Clayton's Name Bill, the Duke of M ar lborough's Estate Bill, Liddle's Estate Bill, and other Bills. ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE BILL. The Administration of Justice Bill was read a second time, and, the Standing Orders being suspended, it passed through Committee, and was ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. CORN-LAWS. Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from Mid dlewich, Cheshire, and from the congregation of the Tabernable Chapel, Trowbridge, praying for the re peal of the Corn-laws. The Noble Lord said he would take that opportunity of reminding those who thought the sliding scale was a great protection,to the agricultural interest ; that at the present time, when shat interest especially required protection, the result of that scale was a duty of one shilling per quarter, and the consequent introduction of somewhere about five weeks' average consumption of the people of England and Scotland. There had been introduced from 1,500,0Q0 to 2,000,000 quarters at a duty of one shilling. If there had been a fixed duty of Bs. it was very possible that part of this importation might have been made, but it certainly would not have been made in a manner so beneficial to the consumer, and so little tending to protect the grower, as the one shilling duty lly the sliding scale. Their Lordships were aware that .his opinion was against the fixed duty as well as the sliding scale ; but still the fact should not escape their attention. Lord KINNAIIU) prevented a petition from Perth, praying for the repeal of the Corn-laws. The Noble Lord said that he feared great distress would result from persisting in the present srtem. The Duke of WELLINGTON said, that if the Noble Zord had beca in his place a little earlier he would I . have heard it s d that a very large supply of corn had beets itrodneed at Is. duty. There could therefore (we un .. stood the Noble Duke to say) be no ground for the Noble Lord's apprehensions. TIMBER. DUTIES. Earl STRA,NGFORD presented 'a petition from 9,000 inhabitants or Quebec, representing the frequent changes in the timber duties, and praying for no further alter- Lions. BRIBERY AT ELECTIONS. On the question for the adjournment of the !louse being put, Lord BROUGHAM said he would take that oppor ,taiity of stating the course he meant to rursue on the important subject to which he had called' the attention of their Lordships on the first night of the Session. .He meant the subject of bribery and intimidation and other malpractices which prevailed to (he was afraid)an unpre cedented extent at the late genera! election. He then stated to the House that they could not more efficiently and faith ftilly discharge their duty, than by taking this subject into consideration, and appointing a committee to en quire into the evil, and to provide measures that might have a tendency to put a stop to them. The degree to which these- eractices existed, the extent to which they prevailed, and the miserable effects which they - produced, not only on the result of the elections, but on the characters of those concerned, was matter of such notoriety, that any further description of it would be superfluous. He (Lord Brougham) had made it his duty to inoheire into the particulars of a vast number of in stances ; and at one time he had intended to select, for the consideration of their Lordships, three cases which appeared to him to possess features in some degree common to them all, and when he stated to their Lord ships that the parties who were affected by the evidence adduced to him were the three great parties which at present divided men both in and out of Parliament—that in one case the person charged was a person connected with the Government, sitting opposite them in opposition ; that, in another case, the charges were directed mainly against the present Opposition, then the Government —(leveghter from Lord Melbourne, and the Peers on the Opposition benches.) He did not know whether his Noble Friend laughed at the word " present," or at the word " Opposition." He supposed there was no such thing as opposition. Lord MELBOURNE—AIIow me to explain. I have heard Gentlemen in the House of Commons called to order for using the word " opposition." Nothing can be more unparliamentary than for any Gentleman to state that he is pledged to opposition. Lord BROUGHAM made an observation, which was inaudible in the Gallery, which excited some laughter, and proceeded. In this case he examined the facts stated ley the party with which he usually agreed adversely to those against whom he had the honour of sitting.— (Laughter.) In another of these cases the charges were mainly directed against those with whom he had usually the honour of acting—(Laughter)—those who agreed with his Noble Friend and himself sitting on that side of the House ; and in the third case, the charges mainly affected a third party belonging neither to the regular Tory party nor to the regular Whig party, but to a party which generally passed under another name, belonging to neither one nor the other. He mentioned these circumstaneee for the purpose of re minding their Lordships that it was in vain to say that these practices were adopted by one party or another. The fact was, that they were adopted by the partizans of all the three great parties, and if he (Lord Brougham) were to state the result of the inquiries he had been able to prosecute, he should say, whichever party in any given place had the greatest possession of the means that party had been most lavish in adopting every course that was calculated to corrupt their fe'low-subjects. Those were greatly mistaken who held that these lamentable circumstances, to which he had adverted, had been the result of the Reform Bill of 1832. He knew that his Noble and Learned Friend on the Woolsack would take credit to himself for having in the debates on the Bill, predicted that the increase of bribery would be the result of that mea sure. He (Lord Brougham) maintained the contrary opi nion. His Noble Friend, however, had e right to state that his predictions had been to a certain -extent fulfilled. He (Lord Brougham) held that the tendency of the Reform Bill of 1832 was directly the reverse, and the ground upon which Ile held that opinion was this—provided the Legislature would do its duty in checking such practices by punishing those crimes the ground on which he thought the Reform Bill did not encourage bribery was simply this—what was the main cause of this bribery ? It was, that the candidate expended his money ignorantly, as- he might do justly under the old system of voting, bribery being the result of that expenditure, because the expenses at elections under the old system were such, that thousands might be expended legally; but in the present state of the law, the expenses of a contest were lessened almost to nothing. Such ' being the case, every candidate who was called upon, to spend thousands, and (lid it with his eyes open, must of necessity know that the money was spent • in bribery. Parliament would not do its duty unless, when the facts came te be known, and when* the corrup tion and intimidation that had been practised had been explained, it took means to put an end to such practices. , It was not the Bill of 1832 which had caused the injury, but because Parliament had not taken- other step?. He had consulted those who had been ac quainted with the subject, and they had stated that there could be no objection to that House inquir ing into the subject. Why, then, it might be asked, did he not press for the appointment of Com mittee ? The reason for his not doing so was this. first that the duration of the Session would be so short that it would be utterly impossible to colaplete the in quiry. In th e o th er H ouse of Parliament - there were about eighty election petitions pe nditig, the greater part of which would co me ttoe castriate it inth e course of the next h Session. That bei ng might . be said that great inconveni ence m i g h t arise from making inquiries in that House upon su bj ects that would come before the other House of Parliament. —(Hear.) These two reasons, after much con s ideration hive to justqy hira, most re l uctant l y, in ales,ine ta appearedto from pressing on their Lordship s th at not i ce of which n had ~ev e n notice on th e fi rst n i ght of the S • fi e h o p e d, however, th at h e would halo their Lordshipsesn. concur rence in enteri ng upon that inquiry in rY the ensu ing Session. He f e l t sure that it might be conducted with an absolute certainty of obtaining inform a tion. facts confiden t t h at the must lead t o some w hi c h Would be elucidated, l eg i s l a tive en actment, and th e i nquiry would teach them what the provisions of th at enaetment ought' to be. He should deem i t his duty to call their Lordships' attention to the i nvest i gation of the facts as soon a s the inquiries in another place had been brougnt to an end. The House then Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Sept. 30. The SPEAKER took his seat at a few minutes to Four. The Right lion. T. L. Corry took the oaths and his seat for Tyrone. The Duke of Marlborough's Estate Bill wa.3 read a third time and passed. The Riddle's Estate Bill was read a third time and passed. The Claytin's Name Bill was read a third tim3 and' passed. PETITIONS. Col. VERNON presented a petition from the grocers arxl spirit-dealers of Armagh, praying for an alteratun of spirit licenses. Mr. THORNELY presented a petition from Beiper, in Derbyshire, praying the House to take the depressed condition of the country into its consideration, and to make an inquiry into the decayed state of various branches of commerce. Sir G, De LARPENT presented a petition from 11( 'LlbaY, complaining of the conduct of Sir Henry Roper, Chief Justice of that place, and of the partiality in the adininiszratio n of justice. Mr. EWART presented a petition from a numhvr of Ministerarepresenti ng large bodies o the Disseaters of .Lane.,hiee and Cheshire against the Corn-laws. Also a petition from a Baptist congregation in the same place, complaining of being obliged to talc.; oaths. And an other from the same parties, complair.g or the gross im morality of certain females in servral towns in those counties, and praying that penalties may be enacted to ~ .,F e vent such immorality in future. C. NAPlERpresented *petition front St. Pancras, p ra ying that the bridges of Vauxhall and Waterloo may be opened to the public. Mr.,CORIPEN presented a petitions from th© Protes tant Dissenters of a town in Cheshire against the Corn laws, also petitions from Sisley-bridge and Stockport to' the same effect. ----- SAVINGS' BANKS. Mr• WILLIAMS gave notice that he folioed, early next Session, move for leave to bring in a Bill to repeal certain clauses in an Act passed in the 9th year of the reign of George IV., entitled "An Act to Consolidate and Amend the Laws relating to Savings' Banks," so far as the same authorises the Com missioners of the National Debt to apply any money standing in the names of the savings' banks depositors into Exchequer Bills, and to convert those Exchequer Bills into three per cent. Consolidated Bank Annuities ; and which law gave an unlimited power for the sale and purchase of such annuities, whereby a loss had been already, and might be hereafter, sustained, by the savings' banks depositors, and an addition made to the debt of the nation without tie authority , or control of Parliament. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER sug gested that the Hon. Member had no right to put an ar gument, as he had done, into his notice. Besides, it was not true that the savings' bank depositors had sustained a loss by the system complained of ; and, therefore, he put it to the Hon. Member, whether he would allow a false impression to go abroad, in consequence of his giving such a notice? _ _ The SPEAKER said it was certainly not in accord ance with the rules of the House for an Hon.,Member to append an argument to a notice of motion. Mr. WILLIAMS—If the savings' banks depositors cannot suffer —(Loud cries of " Order, order.") The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER.—AII that is matter of argument, as the Hon. Gentleman must see_ Mr. WILLIAMS.—It is matter of fact.—(Order.) NEW WRIT. On the motion of Sir J. GRAHAM, a new writ was ordered for a Burgess to .serve in Parliament for the Borough of Wilton, in the room of Viscount Fitzharris now Earl of Malmesbury. CASE OF THE LATE MR. J. BROUGHAM. Sir J. GRAHAM then rose and.spoke as follows : Sir, I hope, although I may not be strictly in order, that the House will extend its indulgence to me while I offer some explanation relating to certain expressions which are reported to have fallen from me in the course of debate the other evening, and which, I have been informed, have greatly pained the feeling's of a Noble Lord, both as touching himself and as reflecting on the memory of his dey.t-ted bro ther, which, therefore, he feels most serzinly, and as the friend of that Gentleman, I alto join in those feelings.—(Hear.) Nothing - can in general be more accurate than the reports of v:ltat pass in this House, and I am therefore dispose.i to believe that what fell from me was incorrect rather than that I have been mis represented. The House will recollect the other even ing the Honoure.bie Member for Sheffield, referring to the compensation awarded to Mr. Scarlett in consequence of the abolition of his office in the Court of Exchequer, re sisted the grant of that compensation, and asked if it was not exactly a parallel case to that of Mr. James Brougham, who had received an appointment from his brother, the Lord Chancellor, which it had, been intended to abolish, and who had not received any compensation. The Honourable Member for Shef field contended that the cases were strictly anala gous. I rose afterwards, and contended that there was a striking difference in the two cases. I statcd that in the case of Mr. Brougham, when Lerd Brougham, the then Lord Chancellor, authorised the appointment, his Lordship, at the very time the ap pointment was made, contemplated the abolition of the office which Mr. Brougham filled, so that there was a great difference between the two cases. I then intended I to have said, " The question arises, was he entitled to compensation ?" Instead of which, lam reported to have said, " The question arose, was he entitled to compensation ?" which seems to convey the meaning that the question of compensation had been raised at the time. Now nothim: can be further from the fact. The question never was raised, and nothing can be more honourable than was the conduct of the Lord Chan cellor and of Mr. Brougham on that occasion. —(Cheers.) The question was never raised at all.—(Cheers.) I am exceedingly sorry that any thing should have fallen from on that occasion which should seem to convey the glithtest feeling of disrespect to the memory.of my de parted friend—(hear. hear, hear)—and I regret exceed ingly- that any thing should have fallen from me to wound the feelings of the Noble Lord.—(Loud cheers.) CAPTAIN WARNER, Lord INGESTRIE was aware that it wzs not in strict order to allude to what had taken place in a former de bate, but he trusted the House would permit him to take that opportunity of setting an individual right with the public. He alluded to the assertions which had been made by the Hon. Member for Halifax, and the Hon. and Gallant Member for the Tower ham lets, relative to Capt. Warner's invention. Those Hon. Members stated that Capt. Warner had refused all in quiry. The SPEAKER said it was quite in order for any Hon. Member, if he had been misrepresented, to set him self right, and in doing so, he would be acting strictly in accordance with the rules and regulations of the House, bitt he had interrupted an Hon. Member yesterday, and he perhaps ought to have interrupted the Noble Lord before, who was not correcting what had fallen from himself, but was alluding to arguments which had fallen from Hon. Members in a former debate. Lord INGESTIVE was aware that he was not strictly in order, but perhaps it would be the only opportunity which might occur, and he hoped he might be per mitted to read a letter for the purpose of setting Capt. Warner right with tte public.—(Hear. hear.) The Noble Lord. then read a letter dated Bth May, 1840, addressed. by Captain Warner to Lord Melbourne, in which Captain Wsrner stated, that he was wil ling to refer his invoistion to a commission, as pro posed, but that he wished to substitute a naval for an engineer officer, because the invention was more particularly connected with the Navy, and there fore he wished to nominate Sir William Parker and Lord Ingestrie, _instead of an engineer officer, but that, as secrecy was as desirable for the interests of the country as for his owe, and as the administration of an oath night be considered objectionable, he submitted that each officer should give his written pledge of secrecy, and he stated that by their de cision he was willing to abide as final. FALKLAND ISLANDS. Capt. FITZROY asked the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies if the report was correct, that a Lieute nant of Engineers had been appointed Governor of the Falkland-Islands, and if he would state the reasons which had occasioned that appointment? Lord STANLEY said it was a fact that a Lieutenant of Engineers, Lieutenant Moate, had been appointed Governor of the Falkland Islands; bat, as the appoint ment had been made by the late 2.rinistry, he could not state the reasons for it. ARMS SUPPLIED TO THE NAVY. Clummodore NAPIER begged leave to take that op pottunity of correcting an error which had been spread abroad respecting a statement made by him in the House as to the inefficiency of the arms supplied to the army and navy. It was re ported that the arms of which he complained were furnished to the navy by the late Lords of the Ad miralty. The fact was, that they were supplied when the Rigl‘Hon. l3aronet opposite was First Lord of the Admiralty—(Hear, lwar)—and he was happy to say that the late. Lords had caused such reparation to be made that at the present moment there were not better arms in any service in the world.—(Hear, hear.) He had, however. nothing to retract from what he had said. FINE ARTS. Mr. HAW begged leave to ask the Right 119 n. Baronet (Sir Robert Peel) whether it was the iateption of her Majesty's Government to act upon the irom inzndation of the Com:nittee which sat last Session to eampider how the fine arts could be protected. That recommendation was, that the investigation should be further prosecuted by the present Parliament. Sir R. PEEL had read with great interest the Report of the Committee of last Session, and the very important evidence taken before it—(Hear)--and he thought that the opportunity afforded by the building of the new Houses of Parliament for encouraging the fine arts ought to be taken advantage of.--(Hear, hear.) It ought, at least, to be considered whether or not the building might be made conducive to the purpose of encouraging the arts.—Gear.) He thought the Gommitte had conducted the inqiiry in .a very satisfactory manner, and the result of their labour would, at all events, be a very great as sistance to any future inquiry. —(Hear, hear.) He be lieved that there were many persons whose opinions ne Committee would be glad to receive, and miinyin nts - of i n ,. quiry into which they would have entered if. their 1 a e teours had not been paematurely terminated . 1-4 the close of the Session. Ho should have no objee:oon to the reappoint ment of that Committee on ':..ccount of the manner in which they conducted tb- - i nqu i ry , but as the labours of the Committee ''."ould not be continued b e y on d the , . sitting of .Parliament, he thought a Commission appointed by ',,tie Crown, without reference to party, would be 4 .,'ne best means of carrying on the inquiry. The budding was intended for the accommodation of both houses of Parliament, and he thought that both Houses should be represented in any body they all -1 potnted. to make inquiries Welrecting it.—(iJear.) But Joint-Committees of both Houses were cumbrous and inconvenient, and, besides, not easily resorted to. Hz th oug h t. therefore, that there' would be an advantage in a Omission appointed by the Crown, consisting of Members of bqh Houses, mid not conined to one party. There would also be an advantage in making inquiries i respectin g the pro g r ess o f t h e Arts in other countries ; which inquiries could be made more satisfactorily and effectually under a Royal Commission than by a Com mittee of both H ouses , an d , besides, the labours of a C,9minivion would not b e t erm i nated by the prorogation el Parliament. Thi s was a matter not at all connected with party, and the building had formerly been part' of the ancient Palace of Westminster. P r i nce Albert had expressed his willingness to form a part ()Ism+ Com mission —(Cheers)—and from th e g reat talents and ac complishments of his Royal Highness, and his intimate knowledge of every department of the fine arts, his assistance would tend extremely to promote the useful ness of the Commission.—(Cheers.) Mr. HAWES hoped the Cominission would be an unpaid oue.—( Hear, hear, and laughter,) Sir R. PEEL thought that there were Members or both Housm of Parliament who would willingly give assistance from mere love of the fine arts—(Hear)—and it would be necessary a,:so to have the assistance of perivms not in Parliament, whose love of the fine arts would be a sufficient inducement, without any pecuniary recompense for their services.—(Hear.) Mr. HAWES had only wished the public to be satiz fied that the Cotnznisiion ivould not be expensive. Sir R. PEEL was happy to inform the 'Hon. Member or Latnbeth 4nd the public, that there was no prosrect of any remuneration being required. Lord SANDON moved for the fUllowing.retupns : Anglo-Spanish Legion—Date when the Legion 'was disbanded ; Copy of the mixed British and Spanish Commission, relatintr to the' Claims of the British Auxiliary Legi on in the service of Spain Copy of Rules for the guidance of the Commissioners ; the date when th e Commission commenced the reception of claims ; die number of claims sent in aled upon, and the respective dates of such adjudications ; . the mode in which such claims were agreed to be paid, and have been paid and satisfied ; the number of Commis sioners, Secretaries, and Clerks engaged in such Com mission ; the amount of the expenses of such Commis sion, specifying the Commissioners' salaries, and those of the Secretaries and Clerks ; return of the expenses, if any, which were allowed, and to whom, in respect of the prosecution of such claims, and how paid ; was any and what deduction made from the claimants, for the purpose of paying agents, or any other expenses ; Anglo-Portuguese claimants ; the date of the disbanding of the respective naval and military forces ; the date of the mixed British and Portuguese Commis sion, appointed to examine and decide upon the claims of British subjects who served in the army or nary during the war of restoration in Portugal ; copy of the rules for the guidance of the Commissioners ; the date of the installation in office of the Commissioners; the date of the decision of theßelgian Minister on the question of con tracts ; the date of the commencement of the reception of claims ; the number of days, and of hours per day, during which each Commissioner respectively has been engaged in the labours of the Commission ; whether any accounts have been examined by one Commissioner in the absence of the' other ; the number of claims received, and the number, if any, investigated and adjudicated upon ; and of claimants to whom notice of such adjudication has been given ; the number of secretaries, clerks, or others employed under the Commissioners, the dates of their several appointments, with their respective salaries ; the salaries of . the Commissioners, and from what scurce paid ; together with an account of all other expenses incidental to the Commission. The Noble Lord reforred, in a very low tone of voice, to the proceedings which had taken place with respect to these claims. 1-le said, after the assurances Which had been given, he had entertained hopes that they would have been brought to a speedy termination. Here were two Commis simiers, two Secretaries, and about twelve Clerks, employed, who had under consideration nearly 1,400 claims of claimants resident only in London. The Com missioners stated that they could not adjudicate upon more than 50 per month of the Portuguese claims. At that rate the final adjudication would not be completed under two .years. When he compared the prospects at present with the expectations which had been held out of a' speedy adjudi cation, he must say he felt extremely disappointed. His object, in reference to the Anglo-Spanish claims, was to show how much more rapidly the investiga tion in that case had been concluded. Although the Commission had had to decide upon twice the number of claims, it concluded its labours within twelve months. The Portuguese claims would not be decided within less than two or three years ; he had, there fore, moved for a table of returns with respect to both Commissions. He entreated her Majesty's Go vernment to adopt some measure for bringing the whole matter to a speedy -termination. Without wishing to excite the feelings of the House, he would ask them to coilsider the miserable condition of these men, exposed as they wore to protracted suffering and disappointment. If there was any part of the motion to which her Ma jesty's 'Ministers objected he would modify it, but at the same time he would be sorry to see it so modified as not to bring out the fact that the Portuguese Commis sion now sitting was pursuing a course totally at variance with that which was pursued with respect to the Spanish claimants. Sir C. B. VERE seconded the motion. Sir R. PEEL said that the chief remark he had to make was, that the returns moved for by the Noble Lord had very much the air of being had by a claimant—by a party who had (been dis appointed by the delay in adjudicating by. the Commissioners. Several of the returns he objected to, and others he did not ; but he thought the Noble Lord ought not to tall for any returns that would imply a reflection upon the Commissioners. If, however, the Noble Lord would withdraw his motion for that day, he (Sir R. Reel) would take an opportunity of considering what information he could with propriety give. After a few observations from Lord PALMERSTON and Lord RANELAGH. Lord SANDON withdrew his motion. Lord W. PAGET, by leave of the House, begged to postpone the motion of which he had given notice, re lating to the number of the wives and children of soldiers now serving in the army, in consequence of not being furnished with some evidence necessary for his purpose. Postponed sine die. Sir R. PEEL brought up some papers relating to the importation of foreign grain. Dr. BOWRING then rose to move for copies o correspondence between the Home-office and the Poor-law Commissioners on the subject of distress in Bolton; with the Report of the Assistant Commis sioner sent by her Majesty's Government to inquire into alleged case of destitution and death, referred to in the debates in Parliament, during the present Session. After the rule laid down by the Chair last night, it be came the duty of every Member of the House to take care that in any case he brought before the House he should avoid all exaggeration. He stood in the position of having made to the House some statements which so in terested the sympathies of the Right Hon. Baronet oppo site as to induce him to institute local inquiries, with a view to the investigation of the facts, as stated by him, of the distress existing in Bolton. He could not but own that it was peculiarly incumbent upon him to take care that the statements were properly authenticated. He was anxious, from being locally connected with the district, nut to expose him self to the charge of exaggerated statements or high colouring. His connexion with Bolton was of a peculiar nature. He went there a stranger, and his election was a proof of the great distress ex• isting in that town. He had been induced to make the present motion, because one of the Guardians of the Bolton Union ' in a manner most uncourteous and uncalled for, had ventured to reproach his (Dr. Bow ringes)personal veracity,and to represent him as unworthy of belief. At a public meeting which he attended, a statement of the distress was made which had harrowed up his heart, and he was determined, if he found that statement borne out by the fact, to represent it in the House . of Commons, and to plead the cause of the oppressed poor in the presence of the privileged rich. The gentleman who made that statement had been one of the Board of Guardians. He was a member of the Society of Friends, and had fallen under the dis pleasure of the Honourable Member for Knares borough, as belonging to a body of men who were remarkable for " professing humanity." Now, in his opinion, there never was a society which had made itself so distinguished as the advocates of huma nity, and the best interests of the poor, as that of the Quakers, and the gentleman to whom the Honourable Member for Knaresborough alluded, was one of those who "did good by stealth and blushed to find it fame." He applied to the Guardians, Messrs. Ashurst and Naseby, requesting they would enable him to ascertain what the real state of the people was—what their con dition and sufferings—that he might know whether the sorrowful tales they told at the public meeting could be borne out by facts, Mr. Naseby and he (Dr. B.) accord ingly began to visit the suffering poor in their wretched cellars. He made a memorandum on that occasion of what he had seen and heard, and he would trespass On the indulgence of the House while reading one. of those records which he then prepared. The first case was that of a poor man aged 40 years, his wife 36. They had ten children, seven of whom were dead. He had been twenty-one weeks without work, He had 2s. 6d. per week parish relief,, and some time before 50s. had been given them ; but all that money was, on the occasion of his (Dr. Bowring's) visit, spent, and they had pledged all they' possessed. Their eldest boy was thirteen years of age, and, when employed, got 4s. per week. The family was in nearly a perishing condition, and they had sold all their furniture to procure the necessaries of life.—(Hear, hear.) In pursuing those inquiries, they (Dr. Bowring and the Guardians) were accompanied by such a multitude, that he wee obliged to give up his object lest he should be Attltsed of ostentation, and endeavouring to tire is Character t o his conduct far from his thoughts an feeling ior he was not . of opinion with the liono e— aDle Me - m ' ber for Knaresborough (Mr. Ferra ncl :inat benevolence should sound a trumpet bef :ere it. In the course of his inquiries -'re the state of the distress in B°lto f il tiv :s demand upon his sympathy was so great demand Mat he wits had not the privilege of wealth, and erno would confess without shame that he had known the vicissitudes of life, and that he had been disciplined by affliction, which he hoped taught him to sympathise with others—so great was the demand upon his sympathy, that he could. not pursue the inquiry to the extent he desired. He had, however, received further statements of facts from Mr. Naseby ; and one of those facts had awakened the compassion and elicited the intervention of the Right Hon. Baronetat the head of the Government. It appeared, from tUe reply given to the inquiries of the Government, that the statement was in some particulars erroneous. '1 he Jury had been called together, but they did not record a verdict, because they were of opinion that no blame could be attached to any one. But there could be no doubt but a man had died of want at his loom. The Hon. Gentleman then read a letter, which he said he received from Mr. W. Cooke, secretary and visitor to the benevolent society of Asliton, dated .' September 17, 1841, detailing the case of a person named Pierce. The that stated that Pierce died from want of food ; and that the Committee of the society to whom he (Cooke) reported the ease were of the same opinion. There was no bedding in his cellar, and he and his fa mily mere obliged to lie on the bricks and stones. That was his situation only six months before he died. Mr. Cooke further stated that he saw the family picking up rotten potatoes which bed been thrown to the pigs, and eating them ; nor was that a single instance, for he saw them taking such food frequently. There was a case of distress, and he thought the Right Hon. Gentlemen ought to feel that it became him (Dr. Bowring), from the posi tion in which he stood,. to bring forward such an example, proving that the attention of Parliament ought to be directed to the condition of the people. He had stated on that occasion that there were 1,200 houses unoccupied in the borough.—(Hear.) Pro bably it was a fact that the rage for building in Bolton, as elsewhere, had exceeded the demand ; but since he had made the statement he had been informed that the present number was 1,400, and he had no doubt that many of them had connected with them son.* tale of sorrow and distress. He was also assured that only two:thirds of the Poor-rates could be collected; that the workmen connected with machinery were engaged only half their time ; that the masons and joiners were only one third employed ; and that the tailors, shoemakers, and handloom weavers were in a still worse condition. A meeting was held in Bolton oat Friday, et which it was unanimously re solved to present a memorial to her Majesty's Govern ment, entreating her Majesty not to consent to the rrorogatinn of Parliament until those distresses had been inquired into. An appeal was made to that meeting whether lie statements which he (Dr. Bowring) had made were borne out, and it was resolved that they were correct. Three reverend gentle men with whom he was pereonally acquainted had attended that meeting, he was sure that not one of them would deviatA a hair's breadth from veracity. Mr. Baker said he could appeal to every class for evidence that the dis tress was universal ; he woald make no selection; it per% ade 1 every class, from the capitalist to the !abcurer. The employers were suffering no less than the men ; many appeared in the Gazette, and others wade quiet compositions, in the hope of being able to keep ou a little longer. Another of these clergymen re ported the case of a family which had been without food for two days. Now, be begged again to repeat that he felt deeply grateful to the Government for send ing a Commission to inquire into this distress. But he entreated the Government that the inquiry might not be a partial one. He had understood that. the Commissioner who went to Bolton had remained there only twenty-four hours. Probably he was sent to investigate one special circumstance—to mare one particular inquiry—though he thought that he had gathered that it was the inten tion of the Right Hon. Baronet that the inquiry should be made much more extensive. He was fully convinced that the more rigid the in quiry was made, the greater would be the demand for the interference of the Legislature, in order to rescue the people from the condition into which ;they had fallen. The Right Hon. Baronet had made some statements on a previous night ill confliction with the savings' banks, and drawn from e hat had occurred tie deduction that already there had been considerable alleviation of the sufferings of the peoele. He thought the savings' banks were in some degree a deceptive test. A great portion of the depositors were domestic servants, who were nut affected by seasons of scarcity or general distress. The Right Honourable Baronet would also recollect that the period to which 1 is return referred, was during the elections, when a large amount of money was spent among the people. He thought the profession of the parties should in all cases he given in reference to the sums deposited in the savings banks. in the Exeter savings' bank the profession of parties depositing was given, and he inquired haw many operatives and artisans were depositors. Of 29,643 accounts there were 6,130 in the name of domestic servants ; 11,538 connected with trade, of whom 5,445 Ivere children ; 9,252 agriculturists ; 1,320 belonging to the army and navy ; and 1,403 public servants and others. There were 12,604 children in all, while the whole number of artizans was 2,220, making only one-thirteenth of the whole number depo sited. The amount, deposited was 886,0321., of which 194,1701. was deposited by domestic servants, and 86,1681. by artisans, making :One-tenth of the whole. Ile was aware that individual'eases of distress were not a proof of its generality.—(Rear, hear.) If Hon. Members would look at a document lately issued, in the form of a Report, from the Registrar-General, they would find that the mortality in the manufacturing districts had of late decreased very much. In the metropolis in 1837-8 the number of deaths was 53,596—in 1833-9 the number was ; in 1839-40, it was 45,13* showing a decrease in 'the mortality of the metropolis since 1837-8 of 16 per cect. Takine the country at large in 1837-3, the number of deaths was 335,956 ; in 1838-9, it was 331,007 ; and in 1839.40, it was 350,101, making a general increase throughout the whole of the country of nearly 4 per cent. But what was the return from the manu facturing districts of Lancashire ? In 1837-8 the number of deaths was 22,932 ; in 1838-9 the number was 26,606 ; in 1839-40 it was 31,918, showing an increase of forty per cent.—(Hear, hear.) Thus, whilst in the agricultural counties there was an increase only of2o per cent, there was in Lancashire, which was a manufacturing county, the increase had been 40 per cent. There were certainly pestilential and mortiferous diseases in those districts, but these were the consequences and companions of distress.—(Cries of Hen", hear." In the agricultural districts the average of distress was 130 in the 1,000 ; in the metro polis it was 161 ; in the manufacturing districts of Lan cashire it was 190.—(Hear ' hear, and cheers.) He stated those facts not through any desire of fomenting a bad feeling towards the aristocracy, or of inflaming the popular pasSions, or fanning the flame of popular discontent. If he had sought to pander to the mul titude, he might have taken a different course upon 'the Poor-law Bill, and done everything in his power to prevent that which he thought was right—namely, to leave the measure in the hands of her Majesty's Govern ment. But he only stated this, that the Corn-law and the Poor-law could not be maintained together. He ' concurred w.th those who thought that the Poor-law ought not to be interfered with in its details, in order that her Majesty's Govern ment might not turn round on them, and ac cuse them of having taken that measure which had such imperfections out of their hands, and thrown from their shoulders the responsibility of that measure. He must again thank the Right Hon. Baronet for the Home Department, for the personal kindness he had shown him in this matter. He (Dr. B.) heard that there was some technical objections to the production of the papers moved for. • He, how ever' felt that it was due to himself to have said all that had fallen from him on the present occasion. He felt that no apprehension of his (Dr. Bowring's) having suffered himself to make unauthorized statements, would induce the Right Hon. Gentlemen to refuse those reports, The Hon. Member concluded by reading his motion. Mr. BROTHERTON seconded the motion. Sir J. GRAHAM said that he should gladly have seconded the motion of the Right Honourable Member, were it not -liable to a technical objection. He found it necessary in the course of the communica tion which he had instituted into the case of distress alleged on a former occasion by the Hon. Member, to embody certain extracts from the speech of the Hon. Gentleman ; and those extracts could not be laid before the House. But he would suggest to the Hon. Gentleman that he might amend his motion by adding to it the words " or extracts," and he (Sir J. Graham) would in that case lay before the House all the papers relating to the subject which could be produced. He must say_ that he considered it the duty of Hon. Members e befOre making statements in the House, to infoem themselves accurately ; on the subject ; because it was one thing to make statements in that House harrowing to the feelings, and calculated to excite the House and the country ; and another, after an interval of time to investigate those state ments, and follow them up step by step ; and if at the conclusion of such an investigation they were to attend so strictly to privilege, Hon. Mem bers ought to feel the urgent necessity of caution in the statements which they made. Hg would suggest to Hon. Members who had to make any'netatements re lating to the administration of the Poor-laws to have . the kindness to communicate to him in writing the statements of facts on which they wished to have an investigation made, and he would cause such in vestigstion to take place, and then when the Hon. Mem ber made such statements they could at once be met. In the cases mentioned on a former evening by the Honourable Member for Knaretborough ; relating to certain cases In a Union in Yorkshire, and in the eases mentioned by the Hon. Member for Rochdale, on the same evening, he had adopted that course with those Hon MininbeN ) to Pettish him with their state me:lth 111 writing, and had assured them that those cases should be investigated, and the statements gone into point by point.—(Hear, hear.) The Honourabl e Mem ber for Bolton seemed to eouipleid that the Assistant Peer.ittit Cclifinlissioner had only remained in Bolton 24 hours, and therefore contended that he could not tho roughly have investigated those fuets. He was not aware of the length of tittle which the Oommissioner had remained at Bolton ) but it was certainly re quisite that he ihotild Wel tto unnecessary de lay. But the Commissioner had sea the lidiatitig officer of Bolton, and the Board of Guardians of that place, and he had 'One intA the statements which the Hon, Mtlithef had made, Point by point; as tild House would find phen the RePort should tie .141 before &in. the it n% Atenilk.f had that niot alliitiefl fd Othif€ ifeeh bit t:e ; but when one statement was under discussion he Ihardly thought he had a right to go into new matter, and thus thus to change the issue. Without meaning any offence to the Hon. Member for Bolton, he must eay that he hoped ) with regard to his new statements; he had eih sereed greater eailtion. The Arst easel tti which the nom Member had alluded was that of a person named Pearce, who, according to the statements of the Hon Member, after undergoing the greatest extremity of suf fering, had died under eircuttistances the ttioat revolting. He would pass by the Coroner's Inquest, because the Hon. Gentleman admitted that he could not rely upon it; but he must remark that the Coroner of Bolton, having been applied to, had refused to hold an Inquest on the ground that there was no necessity for it, so satisfied had he been that there was not even a prima facie case fur holding an Inquest. The Coroner tbr the county of Lan caster, however, had not been so scrupulous; he had held an lequest, and held it in the absence of the relieving officer. Now, with respect to the statement of the wife of Pearce. He begged the House to listen on the one hand to the statement of the Hon. Gentleman, and to the report of the Assistant-Commissioner on the other. The Right Hon. Gene then referred to the statement of Pearce's case, as made by Dr. Bearing; but, said the Right Hon. Gentl.- man,•the Report of the Poor-law Assistant Commission: r was quite at variance with that statement. The Coin missioner said he visited the house and examined the widow of Pearce. She informed him (the Commissioner) that her husband died in February, more than half a year ago, at the age of 65, of a lingering illness ; that she had employment herself, and her two daughters were fully em ployed, earning 9s. 6d. a week during her husband's life, and that they were in a comfortable way.—(Rear, hear.) Thu Right Him. Gentleman then referred to the case of Bristow. It appeared this case had been reported beenti o o s t . h e aa vys i ngt, given fi e it o : t e o r hf ,ai them haffenarmocilnLti;.:)Lrt family—(Hear)—and relief had —and they had -week hear.)denying t ei r sup p t o r s t e . v — eor ( fe H l a a i ss r .: tress existed at Bolton, but whet he complained tha that that distress had been exaggerated. An investiga tion took place with respect to the education of the poor about Christmas, 1840, and the House would allow him to read the Report of the Assistant Poor-law Commis sioner in reference to that inquiry. He would read the words of the relieving-officer, whose evidence was taken by Mr. Mott, the Poor-law Commissioner in ques tion. This person said he recollected that about Christmas last the rate-payers formed themselves into a Committee, to inquire into the distress of the people of Bolton. A statement was made in reference to the several parishes said to have been visited, and he thought it his duty to examine the cases.—(Hear, hear.) The result was, that he found that i n ever y case representations had been made which were not_ true. un e s t eo s d e r d . d e r t r h hta to He charged one a T e h o e lo a u n r io h u a n d t obfeeenargniiinegns to nad everybe incorrectlyone, implying s t a a te g d r e , a a t n e d r degree of want than really existed. os w t o et m aiii a na n ds withommaed made l telling ne rk ee tass u e, n v a t h i s - i t e t b t h h a untruths, when Commissioner, Mr. Mott, said that these statements were got up for an Anti-Corn-law meeting at Bolton ; e a:s e ll :5 0 11 she s e h d e could, is c t o ri n b i f ' and now they were- reproduced in Parliament, com mented upon, and made subsidiary t o the same ob j ect. Then, as to the other point alluded to by the Hon. Mem ber.—the number of uninhabited houses. That also hail THE SUN, LONION, FRIDAY, OCTOBER 1, IrYll. been investigated by the Assistant-Commissioners. It was attempted to be shown that the excess of uninha bited houses was attributable to the existing distress. Mr. Mutt's statement was, that the number of houses necessary empty, according to the population, was 16,836 ; the actual number was 20,292 ; but he attri buted the whole excess to over-speculation in building —in fact, to over-production.—(Hear, hear.) The As sistant Commissioner had also entered into the question mooted by the Hon. Member ; viz., the number of deaths, as shown by the Register-General's Report, which had been laid on the table of the House a few days ago. He would call the attention of the House to the fact, that, until the Bill, establishing the registry of births, deaths, and marriages, there was no return made which could be at all relied on ; so that, in fact, no comparison could be made with any approach to accuracy. If the Hon. Member had any additional facts, and would apprise him of them, he would promise that immediate investigation would be instituted.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Ile had shortly given the facts of the Report, but it would be laid in extenso on the table of the House. He trusted it would in future induce Hon: Members to be more cautious in making statements upon exparte evidence, and that. in 'future whatever statements they made should be communicated in writing, in order that they might be investigated.-(Loud cheers.) Sir R. PEEL wished to refer to some statements made upon a former evening, as proof of the distress prevail ing in certain districts. He was sure the House would recollect that no one could admit more fully than Ite did that there was in the manufacturing districts, and particu larly in the cotton manufactures, ccnsiderable dis tress, and that the manufacturing- population hed to submit to severe sufferings and privations. But the question was not as to the extent of that distress, but as to the accuracy of certain statements with regard to that distress. He had said that there was great exaggeration on the subject of the distress ; and as to particular facts, and he had cautioned the House against aggravating the discontent that prevailed by such statements. Before he proceeded to refer to the points to which he wished to call attention he was anxious to notice one rtatement made by the Hon. Gen tleman who had just sat down with respect to the state of mortality in the manufacturing districts, and to eau tion the House against drawing an inference even from the rate of mortality having increased, which he be believed to be the fact. In these counties, which were the chief seat of the manufactures, there had been an increase of mortality. At the same time it must be borne in mind that conclusions should not be _come to hastily. The Commissioners in their Report had given a caution which the Hon. Gentleman, after careful pe rusal, should not have overlooked.—(Cries of " Hear, Hear.) The Register-General stated that the pre valence of increased mortality in those counties which comprised the largest amount of population, suggested, a course which might be found , in the circumstance to which the manufacturing population were exposed. But a further examination showed that not only did the in crease vary, but that there was a decreased mortality in some districts ; and such was the case particularly in Manchester, Salford, Bolton, Oldham, Stockport, and Leeds. Though there had been that increase, yet in the towns which were particularly the seats of manufacturing industry—Manchester, Salford, Bolton, Oldham, Stock port, and Leeds—the mortality had decreased. On a former night he (Sir R. Peel) had referred to the returns from the savings' banks, not as a proof that. there was no distress, for of that he was well aware ; nay, more, he expressly said that he did not think the returns from the savings' banks could be altogether relied on as a test of the comfort of the working classes ; but at the same time that no Government, in attempting to collect information respecting the condition of the labour ing poor, would disregard those returns as evi dence of that condition ; and he thought that as far as those returns could be relied on, they rather tended to induce those who felt a deep interest in that subject to take a less discouraging view of the condition of the poor than some Hon. Gentlemen were inclined to do ; and he (Sir R. Peel) gave an account of the state of the deposits of the present year for the last three months. The Hon. Gentleman the Member for Stockport (Mr. Cobden) in following him (Sir R. Peel) said that the re turns from some of those banks were entirely delusive. Mr. COBDEN—Not delusive but fallacious. Sir It. PEEL—WeII, then, the Hon.. Member said fallacious, and that it was not his (Sir R. Peel's) duty to have brought forward returns only for a few months of the present year; but why, said the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Cobden), did not the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) bring forward returns from the same banks for the years 1837, 38, 39, and 40 ? Mr. COBDEN-1835, 36, and up to 1841. Sir R. PEEL really did not know that the Hon. Gentleman mentioned the years 1835 and 1836 ; he had not been present at the time the Hon. Gentleman spoke. He admitted that he had not the returns for those years, but the Hon. Member should have the returns from the year 1837 upwards. The Honourable Gentleman called for returns for those years, and now he said he went further back, to 35 and 36, but he certainly alluded to the years to which he (Sr It. Peel) referred. It was said also, that he (Sir It. Peel) had made particular re ference to the agricultural classes. Now, he made in quiry with respect to the manufacturing districts, and he had selected a particular district which was of the most importance—the district of Manchester and Sal ford—and the following was the result of the informa Lion sent to him respecting the savings' banks in those places. The returns, he admitted, began with the year 1837, and the omission of 1835 and 1836 .was not inten tional The months included in the return were July, August, and September. of the years 1837, 1838, 1839. 1840, and 1841. In 1837, 1833, and 1839, taking the number of deposits and the number of withdrawals for the three above mentioned months, the average was—Deposits, 22,600/, withdrawals 21,030/, show ing a balance of 1,5701. in favour of the deposits. In 1839 and 1840, taking the average of these two years, the amount of deposits was 24,3001, and the withdrawals 23;800/, leaving a balance in favour of deposits of only 5001. In the year 1841, the deposits for the three months Jul,, August, and September, amounted to 28,1031, having increased, as compared with the average of the first period, from 22,6001. to 28,1031. ; and the average increase, in 1840, was from 24,300/. to 28,1031. The amount of withdrawals in that quarter of 1841 was 25,3561., leaving a balance in favour of deposits, as com pired with the withdrawals, of 2,8471. The balance of the first period was 1,5071., and in the second period 500/, and in the last period 2,846/. But it might be said, give us the number of depositors, because the number of depositors is of great importance ; because it might- happen in the latter period, that although the amount of deposits might be greater, yet that the number of depositors had diminished, and an argument might be founded upon that, that the depositors were of the more wealthy class. In the first period, the average of 1837 and 1838, the number of contributors was 4,300, while in the average of 1839 and 1840 the number of contributors was 5,103, while the average number of con tributors in the last year was 6,335.—(Hear, hear.) He did not wish to push the argument to an extent to which it was not entitled. He said again, what he had stated before, that the criterion of the savings' banks was not one on which ho relied ; but still the comparison was favourable. In the course of the same debate the Hon. Member for Manchester— _ _ Mr. GIBSON here rose amidst loud cries of " Order." He believed it had been laid down by the Chair that it was contrary to the custom of the House for Hon. Mem bers to allude to what had taken place in a former debate. He felt this was precisely an occasion on which the in convenience of the practice was manifested.—(Laughter from the Ministerial benches.) That was his case. Let them observe what was going to take place. The Right Hon. Baronet, having had a week's time for prepara tion—having all the means a Prime Minister had at his disposal to make inquiry—came down to the House to tritik.e attacks on the statements of Hon. Members. goiV, lid (Mr, Gibson) well remembered what had been -dated by the Noble Lord the Member for North Lanca shire, that no Hon. Member could so well dress up a case for present and temporary effect as the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for 'ramworth.—(Cries of " Order, order.") But what he (Mr. Gibson) was going to oh sefra was this, that it was not his wish to shrink from the fullest L'vestigation of anything he had said on the subject of the 0,- -qtresss of the country ; but he did of arriving at the truth, that it think, for the purpos:: iron. Member, whose state was very desirable that an A. ' , mild have time given ment was about to be attacked, b—. House prepared in order that he might come into tn... 4o make his with the necessary testimony to enable him ~i ra._ defence to the charges so to be bronglit Mutt (Hear, hear, and "Order.") Sir R. PEEL resumed—He confessed that when a statement of very great importance was made in that. House, he did not think, when his sole object was to as certain the facts, he should be called to orcler.—(Hear, hear.) Ile would leave it to the House to judge whe ther he was about to be guilty of any infraction of the rules of Parliament, which justified any Member in pro testing against the course that he pursued. He con sidered that it ' Avas absolunily necessary that he should make the statement he was about to have made. When it was asserted in that Louse that with respect to Man chester, thousands were deprived of employment, ant thousands suffering under typhus fever, from want of sufficient food—he would appeal to the House whether it was right that a Minister of the Crown, hearing a state ment so appalling as that., could refrain from making inquiry—(Cheers)—and from communicating. in some way or other, the result of that inquiry to the House?— (Cneers.) He left it to the House to judge whether it was wise that the enforcement; of technical rules should permit this country, and • the other coun:ries of Europe, to labour under the impression that thousands were actually suffering in this country under typhus fever, produced by want of food, and that when a 'Minister of the Crown merely attempted to ad minister consolation and satisfaction to minds grieved by such statements, an Hon. Member should get up and appeal to a rule of the House which prevented reference to the debate in which the assertions were made.— (Cheers.) He had thought that the Hon. Gentleman himself, from bis connexion with Manchester, would hear with satisfaction the statement which he was about to make.—(Much cheering from the Tories.) He (Sir R. Peel) was merely going to state that he had received from a person of the highest respectability in Manchester a communication to the effect that great alarm prevailed in consequence of the statement made in the House that thousands were dying in that town of typhus fever ; and the communication was accompanied with returns from the Fever Hospital, commencing with June in the year 1837, and carried down to May of the present year. In the year 1837 the number of patients admitted iuto the Fever Hospital was 1,797 ; in 1838 it was 1,372 ; in 1839 it was 1,042 ; in 1840 it was 848 ; and in 1841 up to the beginning of May it was only 690.—(Tory cheers.) In order to make the comparison perfectly fair the average of the months of June, July,.August , and September, in those years was calculated, and it appeared that in these four mouths of 1837, the number of patients received into this hospital was 340—in 1838, 432 ; in 1839, 203 ; in 1840, 268.; and in 1841, 1971--: (Tory cheers.) Could any man deny that it was im• portant to make these statements to the House? — (Cheers.) He was not going to make any comment o. them. But was any man to say that a Minister of th. Crown was to be prevented, by technical rules—without Vaerettee to party, or commenting on what had occurred in a former debate-41'cm removing from the minds ot Members and of the public a delusioti of the most mis chievous kind, and stating to the House the information which he had received?—(Tory cheers.) Mr. GIBSON said the Right Hon. Bart. had misunder stood him. It had not been his object to prevent the Right Hon. Baronet from making his statement. He only meant to complain that the statement wa.!' made without giving Honourable Members notice so that they might be prepared to defend bemselves.—(Hear, hear.) The effect of the statement would be exactly ilia which the Right Hon. Baronet said he wanted to avoid—to spread delusion throughout the country.—(Hear, hear.) Ho (Mr. Gibson) had said nothing about hospitals. He did not think that typhus fevers were admitted into hospitals, on account of their infectious character.—(Great laughter from the Tories.) He had received letters from Manchester stating that there were thousands afflicted with that fever.—(Hear, hear.) It might easily be understood that the word " thousands" was not used in a literal sense, but only to signify that very great numbers were suffering so.—(Hear, hear, from the Opposition, and much cheering and laughter from the Tories.) Hon. Gentlemen opposite might laugh, for they seemed disposed to take the distress and sickness in a very jocular manner—(Hear)—but he had received letters from physicians in Manchester, stating that great numbers in that town were dying from want of food, and that, in such cases,' death was usually preceded by typhoid symptoms ; so that, in truth, the victim might be said to die of fever. He drew, however, one consolation from the statement of the Right Hon. Baronet, and from the disposition of the Government to disbelieve that dis tres3 existed. His consolation was, that they seemed to intimate to the people that if the existence of distress was proved, they were prepared to remove it.— (Hear.) • Mr. COBDEN thought that the increase in the ac counts of the Manchester Savings' Bank was owing to the extension of its branches.—(Hear, hear.) He had an opportunity also of exposing a fallacy in the comparison as to the proportion of houses to population in Bolton and Liverpool. It was proved in the Statistical Section of the British Association at Liverpool, that there were in that town between 50,000 and 60,000 persons living in cellars, whereas the persons 'lodged in that 'manner in Bolton were very few.—(llcar, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet had said that the years 1835 and 1836 were yeas of fictitious prosperity. Even if he granted that, still it would follow that 1837 was the year of revulsion ; and yet the Right Hon. Baronet chose that year, which must naturally be the one of greatest distress, as the one from which to prove the progress of prosperity. The Right Hon. Baronet stated that 1,402 per Sons were admitted into the Fever Hospital in 1837 ; but lie did not say that, according to 'the Report, a very large number of the sick were refused admittance.— (Hear, hear.) The course pursued by the Government would go merely to irritate the people.—(Hear, hear.) They heard the unanimous voice of the people in the dis tressed districts, imploring her Majesty not to prorogue Parliament until the cause of their sufferings were in quired into, and they refused all inquiry.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet produced a fallacious, he would not say a garbled, account of the saving's' banks, to make it appear that no distress existed.—(Hear, hear.) He would, however, implore the Right Hon. Baronet to take this question into his consideration as a statesman, and give it impartial inquiry.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. DARBY hoped the Hon. Gentlemen opposite would learn from what had passed, to abstain from making exaggerated statements, and spreading unfound= ed alarm. Mr. C. BULLER had often known statements that distress existed to be met by Ministers with the state ments that there was no distress.—(Hear, hear.) On this occasion the denial would be very • inconvenient to the House, as communications would Le received from all parts of the country, to the very end of the Session, calling on the representatives to re-affirm the existence of and the extent of the distress. He could not take the testimony of Mr. Mutt, the Assistant Commissioner, as conclusive, for he thought it likely that relieving officers would be disposed to make light of the distress. Mr. Mott showed that his judgment was not to be relied on when he stepped' out of his way to give an opinion as to the manner in which the people of England ought to be housed, and chose Liverpool as the model, whereas it was well known that in that city the people were worse lodged, - and the proportion of houses to population less than any where else in England.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet first admitted the distress, and then re ferred to statistical details to show that the country was never in a better state, and that there never was so little sickness and mortality in Manchester. Nay, the people there never had so. mush money in the savings' banks. He thought the Government ought to abstain from making such statements. It would lead to the opinion that they were disposed to underate the distress, and to neglect a remedy.—(Hear, hear.) Lord SANDON hoped that Gentlemen opposite would take the advice of the Hon. and Learned Member near him (Mr. Darby) and abstain from exaggerated state ments which were calculated to mislead and alarm the public, and to go forth not only over this country but all over the world.—(Hear, hear, from the Tories.) With respect to the typhus fever, it was well known that it was chiefly for the reception of that class of disease fever hospitals were established, in order to separate the patients from their families.—(Loud cheers.) He be lieved that the accounts of the public distress had been exaggerated ; and he had reason to think that distress had been of late diminishing. Major AGLIONBY expressed his belief that any exaggeration -of the distress of the people could not tend to diminish the evil, but of the existence of very lamentable distress no doubt could be entertained. Mr. HARDY defended the conduct of the Govern ment, who had, he believed, pursued the proper course in their investigations on the subject of the statements which had been made to the House. There had been over-production among manufacturers, and it was to that circumstance he attributed the recurrence of distress among the working classes. . Mr. ALDAM stated that one of the causes of the dis tress which had of late prevailed was to be found in the fact, that although there had been no scarcity of goods during the autumn, there had not been, as was the case during former years, a rise of prices in the autumn trade. Such a circumstance led to a scarcity of work, and offered an unfavourable prospect for the coming winter. It was alsci to be observed, that during the five years which preceeded 1830, nearly half a million less of goods had been exported than dur ing the five years which preceded 1840. The popula tion, however, had increased, while trade had diminished. EXCHEQUER BILLS FUNDING BILL, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, haying moved the Order of the Day for the House going into Committee on this Bill, Mr. WILLIAMS took the opportunity of expressing his belief, that if the Right Hon. Gentleman had had recourse at once to a loan, he would have obtained a better bargain for the public, and would have more se curely obtained the obPet he had in view. The Right Hon. Gentleman's proposal would, he believed, add 5,000,0001. instead of 2,500,0001. to the national debt. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that his arrangement was to be considered rather of exchanging a debt than of croatiug a new one. With regard to a loan, he did not think it could be obtained upon such favourable terms as the Hon. Gentleman seemed to imagine. A loan had never been obtained at the rate of less than eighteen or nineteen shillings in the pound. CASE OF M'LEOD. Commodore NAPIER wished to put it to the Right Hon. Baronet opposite whether it would not be advisa ble that Parliament should not be prorogued until some settlement had been come to relative to the case of M'Leod, a case which involved considerations of the utmost delicacy and importance. Sir R. PEEL—I cannot give the Gallant Commodore any answer upon the sub.;ect. Mr. YORKE hoped that Parliament would not be allowed to separate until this important question was placed upon a safe footing. Although the Government had not been induced to continue the Session in conse quence of the distress prevailing in the country, he im plored the Right Hon. Baronet, in the name of patriot , ism, and for the sake of that national fame and honour upon which he pretended to such high aspirations, not to prorogue Parliament until the important and critical • , enstances in which the country was placed were de . • -nd distinctly understood. lin ' ll 4 EA „.Eit then left the Chair, and a, claus e ha v ing Tht: been ag-reei: to the effect that where the Lords : of the any three of them m i g ht a ct, Treasury- were rai7.7 44 the Bill went through le •s ,Cl - / ny,‘tee and the Report was ordered to be received to-morrolV. EXCHEQUER BILLS _ . "' 14 . . 14 . the CHANCELLC..:' Oa the motion of of the EX CHEQUER, a clause was inserted in the Bili, .7'.'r. ° " .- ering the Lords of the Treasury to insert a clause of propriation ; and the Bill, having gone through Com mittee, the Report was ordered to be received to-morrow. The Population Payments Bill was read a third time and passed., Tile other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the' House adjourned at a Quarter before Eight O'clock: POLICE INTELLIGENCE. WORSHIP- STREET. MISTAKEN IDENTITY.- Elizabeth Garrahan, a very neatly-dressed and good-looking Iris') girl, who had been twice remanded on a charge of having stolen a quantity of plate and other property from the dwelling-house of a lady named Davis, in Old-street-road, was finally placed at the bar, before Mr. Bingham. The only evidence in support of the charge was ad duced. by Sarah Newman, the prosecutrix's servant, a girl fourteen years of age, who stated that the prisoner came to her mistress's house on pretence of inquiring. after a situat ion, and, being left alone, carried off con siderable property. She met the priscner in the street some days afterwards and gave her into custody. The prisoner emphatically asserted her innocence, mid implored the Magistrate not to allow her former miscon duct to operate against her, as shnhad pledged the pro perty to preserve her from perishing for want. eared she had pledged some property of the ( person with whom she lodged.) She had endeavoured to pro cure a subsistence by working at her needle, but was un able to obtain employment, and she had not a friend in the world to whom she could turn for assistance or sympathy. The MAGISTRATE expressed his reluctance to commit the prisoner for trial on the unsupported testimony of so young a witness, and he remanded her fur a week, in order that further inquiries might be made respecting her. The prosecutrix was now in attendance with the wit c ss, Sarah Newman, and the latter remained =shake a in I er belief that the that was the culp ted" rit. Mr. BINGHAm said that the case strongly ill isedustra in the necessity of extreme caution being exer c giving evidence as to identity. He had caused inquiries to be made, and ascertained, that on the day of the r 0 b - ,. bery the prisoner was in confin ement at the House or Correction, her term of imprisonment for illerallr pledging her landlord's property not having then ex' pired. He should now discharge her, and he reeelL mended the prosecutrix to make her some cornpesati‘"" for the fortnight's imprisonment she had undeservedlr suffered. The prosecutrix acceded to the Magistrate' a s wish, an g . istrate added 53. • and the poor girl expres sed sincerely a sovereign to :he prisoner,. to which the INia, - , sincerely thankful for the money. . -.. xpressed. berseit- Ri CORN . A VERA GOris, c onx, _, GENERAL AVERAGE PRICES OF.BRITIS 4 F I Re mo. ve. For the Week ended Sept 24, 1841„lmade up from do ' Amid 4114 the Inspectors in the different Cities and fawns in Rik Wales, per Imperial Quarter. IL• Wheat ...... ... f 3s. 4d. 1 Oats Barley 39s. sd. j Rye AVERAGES OF THE LAST Fll ' , SEXES. rsO P Wee( ending' WHEAT. (BARLEY. OATS. AYE. ) BEANS. _.......... .-------...... --.....-.1.-- .------ ......---...-• ................... -77. ,f 4 2234. 5 5 d : 4 . 1 1 B re e as an e ' ..................... Aug. 21 28 - Sept. n 10 7l 23 91023637 1141 F, 47 9' 7 64 8392236 386 41 iu 45 11 24 63 4 39 5 22 3 38 5 45 2 0 IMPERIAL AGGREGATE AVERAGES of Trot sor IY . ff 5 4, Wheat..a..... 70s, 81.1 Oats ......... 235. 9d.1 Beans ........ :. ' Harley 393 Od- 1 Rye .... . .... 38s. Ild.l Pease.. ...... .4 9, DUTIES oW Foßxl6l4 CORR'. Wheat lO3. 10s. Bd. 1 Oats Barley 3s. 4d. 1 Bye 117 s. 36.:1.1 8eam......... . 3 1 , . od. THE MARKETS.—YESTR 03- "" - COLONIAL ,11IARKET. The market was dull, but prices were steady for most a rti , des ; the public sales were light. TEA MARKET. b u t Prices were steady. The -market was quiet, all locl purchases were made. Company's Congou produced Is. cash. WHITECHAPEL HAY MARXET. 13se the The supply was middling, the demand go.id fc' r qualities, and the middling and ordinary sorts more in le s cil t i r e ast Clover, 3/. to 6/. ; Meadow llay, 2i. to 4/. 1 55 ' - 1/. 13s. to 1/. 18s. METAL MARKET. .re ' on The demand dull for all sorts of letals, and prie s " decline. Spelter, 31/. 15s. to 321. per tan. TALLOW MARKET. _ A. Segel The market dull, and prices were barely support," of I'. Y. Candle at 435. on the sent and for &Hl.* •- COUNTRY CORN MARKETS - ______/ ' Wheat. Barley. I OW. 1 - v ; e3 ' ..... - "" - g ..--••••"""" .0 Per Quarter. s. to R. $. to g. 6. to S. a. t ° 3g •10 4 0 . Boston 'rain tz ee 52 70 27 31 f 3 29 3.. 4 43 40 5 $ C ighton .58 78 28 :i3 25 2 41 40 ;-; 40 Cambridge —5 J- 31 20 Ab I,' 43 CiliCheslAr ~., Dunmow 55 63 26 37 23 25 :13 '0 I Grantham - 0 Grimsby 56 74 28 33 16 21 3 3 " "4 .‘A9 . --• Hailsham 63 78 26 30 2.:: 25 37 •;„, — 4) Main ..... 50 70 29 05 21 26 37 . 4 3 .; 04 9 Ipswich Lewes 56 17 21) 21) 22 25 34 • '34 Lynn Maidstone s 9' 4o - 3 79 4i 3 76 68 3030 3934 20 26 gl n3Bl, SS - 4 - 0 Norwich Pet wor th 44 • `', Rumford 56 78 20 36 90 10 3 , •••.: r, 43 3: ' 4 1 Sandwich 62 71 30 3: 26 3 0 •,;.: 3 9 :,4 31 Thetford 6O 64 32 36 21 24 3,, 3 34 .33 Wishech Witham 6O 10 30 37 27 SI 31 ':'' 9 40 Yarmouth 6O 74 20 32 24 no 38 4 .9 LIVERPOOL CORN MARKIET.--SeP t- 2 g : ' ~. 1 0 0 WnEvr, English, White, per 701 b... ................ 1 0, • I "' - 9 I 9 6 .0 ~° —..:...--- Red .. 0 0 11 ' -- Scotch, Welch, and Manx ........ .. ........... 2 12 ,9 . --.—.. Irish, White --- --- Red 7 9 id 5 ----- F0reign........ .. -• 8 9 s 5 9 s Oars, EtiLlisli. Welsh, and Scotch, per 45 15 ..... , -- Irish -.-••• 3 1 0 o 0 •.0 •• Foreign •••' q 7 0 ',, A 38 401 4 9 . .Sept 287 ' 0 101., 01. n 1 9 6 ° ..... 0 0 9 3 8 2 , 13 ..... 7 9 id " ..... • 9 S ..... • 0 ..•.. 37 0 3i 4 j • A 4 ....• • 4 0 ..... 0 .. .. 331' 44 0 ' .. •42 6 44 4 ..... 4 0 0 (I' 4 ; n fr .. ... a . 52 6 (1 03 0 25 0 30 v ; ... 33 „ ...... 43 0 ---- Foreign...... . OATS, EliOi4ll. Welsh, and Scotch, - Irish ...,..".. 000000000 Foreign Wax; English, Maltin;, - „ per Imp. quarter..., ---- Scotch and Irish, pet Millis. --- Feeding BEANS, English, per Imperial quarter -- Irish, &t. - Foreign PEase, English, per imperial quarter -- Foreign FLoun, English, per •ZSGItr. OATMRAL, English and Iris h,per %lifts INutax CORN, per 4891 b. RYE, per Imperial quarter MALT, per Imperial quarter S HIP t" IN_G(..TerlinoNdyTtDhEi,ssdi. (LLOYD'S.) C B ' LONDON, SEPT. 30. GATE, SEPT. 29.—Relianacte,n OFF MAR nando Po. . l c 'el RAMSGATE, SEPT. 29.—Arrived the Elizabeth. -,,,tr mouth, for London, sprung a leak in the outer Wi ly-- and filled. -ePacIP DEAL, S FPT. 29.—Wind W.S.W.—Arrived the . - l o t from Valparaiso. Arrived from the river the I , e h i l' o of is Cooans,etWo..elifer, Bombay, and not on the 23d, as reported. It h a " 'idle' hard throughout day, during which several n' il t h outward bound drove, but brought up again with -13 anchors. 7, P.m., more moderate. 1, ..---. LIVERPOOL, SEPT. 29.—Wind W.S.W., very ften . o .., Arrived the Wilson, Slaup, from Buenos Ayres ; , '" 6 ,..., cook, late Poag, Maracaibo, sailed 3d ult. ; St. IVL J_ A Whiteside, Jamaica, sailed -15th ult., and experieneq gales of wind from all mints of the compass for the . l °_ ol St. sep h J , ol s tn e ' n s e , fortnight ; Miracle, Lady Milton, and Mary Anne, tr. l 4 ) . Senegal; Bradshaw, Smyrna. o - utl Wales. a I S e s a . i l e dA sy d , n . ey s t t, irona BBtrirrriaine:lnAessdh‘gvaniolcveffk,s Agnes, the; Eciiuvnbagerca, Francis,g; of on F r7 e i x i ;0, Texas; s 4 v‘ , ' or so: JERSEY, SEPT. 24. Arrived the Harriet, l' i s' Constantinople. OD, BRISTOL, SEPT. 29.—Arrived the William Th°nlPS' Roberts, from Jamaica. , E t 0 1 DUBLIN, SEPT. 28. Pomona, —Arrived the CoP e ' - Quebec. . ri - at* LEITH, SEPT. 28.—Arrived the William Turcan, -...• can, from Leghorn. vt, SHIELDS, SEPT. 27.—Sailed the Jo hn James , p; Wilkin, for Buenos Ayres; Elizabeth Atkinson, zit, William, Malta; Earl of Durham, Calcutta. Put ba to , with the Prosperous, for London, loss a oproasts A sails split. wall JERSEY, SEPT. 27.—The Charming Molly, from S sea, was wrecked in the Bay on the 25th inst. b icli. GREENOCK, SEPT. 28.—The William Harris, I v ..i,v` sailed hence the 6th inst. for llavannah, put back to-le', leaky, haying bore un on the 17th, when about 500 nti west of Ireland, having encountered a heavy gaiL'• ' r eal HULL, SEPT. 29.—1 t has blown strong 'SOO - S.S.E. to S.S.W. f,r the last thirty-six hours. ~k , v . t; PORTSMOUTH, SEPT. 29.—Wind, S.S.W. to . • pot very squally.—The Ontario, fur New York, 1 1 5 3 0 ,1 sailed as roported on the 27th. It commenced ble u a heavy gale last night at eight o'clock, and cont iP but antthis morning it moderated at 00 013, all night, 1 still blows fresh. ~„ ~„uton HARWICH, SEPT. 29.—The Normanby, from blr o iae Chatham, has been assisted in here leaky, „ fi l o!, stmck on the Cutter Sand. The Albert, of 1 0141 , bo at parted lizx anchors and chains outside the ils ' O , O lO this morning: It blew a heavy gale at S.W. th e 'I lin t of the night, and has continued throughout the dn.) ' it is now more moderate. ft D. i• VES S ELS SPOKEN WITH.—The Cosmopolite, , ; London to Quebec, on the 11th inst., lat. 44, Jon. * nc i, James Harris, 11th inst. ; Albion, bound to Newre tl ,4- land, 25th inst., lat. 50, lon. 14, by the William Til e .' e •r , son, arrived at Bristol. Jane Walker, Narva to .1 ,11 (ler pool, 18th inst., lat. 56, lon. 7 ; Baltic Q ,Quebec Liver ° °l , o . 12th . inst., lat. 46, lon. 43 ; Thomas Carty, Liverpooluie Halifax, 15th inst., lat. 47, lon. 36 ; Telemachus, Ito .to Newfoundland, 21st lest ; Ann Eliza, Liverpoo cu, Maranham, 21st inst., lat. 48, ion. 18; 31argaret P o lle by of Glasgow, steering W., 23d inst., lat. 50, lon. 12 'r e v the Feronia, arrived at Bristol. Sully, Havre to ; to York, 6th inst., lat. 43, lon. 56 ; Ayrshire, Liverr,°,.„te, St. John's, N. 8., 13th inst., lat. 47, Jon. 40 ; John 11-- by Cardiff to Portland , U.S., 19th inst , hit. 49, lon' 18, ot the Ville de Lyon, arrived at Havre. - Ocean, of 1- '„,, e ; n ri d le, for New York, 23d inst., lat. 50, lon. 11, b). the . 0 ) - `" --c arrived at Liverpool. ------ __.e. la ROWLAND'S ODONTO.—This diSeciVerY' ,059 effectually cleaning the Teeth and purifying the Breathba- 0 be considered without a rival. Disease of the Teeth and ,ijs; generally arise from neglect, or the use of deleterious a' _ or the former allows concretions to form, while the latteriscap codes the enamel, and so produces a quick ;decal. B a er ties , Odonto, from its disinfecting and stimulative pig', the whitens the teeth, stimulates the gums. and P ur o f e i o iiia s breath—thus effecting all age - , human agency can in c u er locis the existence of those highly-prized organs to the latest p of human life. "SHE 'S SILVER PLATED CORNER D .40,'14 A. B. SAVORY and SONS, Manufactu rin g Silversg%f t the C or nhill, London, opp o site the Bank of England, 0 ";4110'It 11 • prices of the following patterns of strongly-plated C. shields l DISHES, with s il v er handles and edges, and r engraving the ercst or coat of arms : The Gadroon Pattern. Four strongly-, Sated cor. Four extra strongUes to ner Dishes and Covers...Xlo 10 plated Corner D i° .. £ l3 Four extra strongly-plat , d and Covers ............... . Corner Dishes and Lovers 12 It so that -Zt.B. The Covers are made with moveable hancliee,tiorde‘' The Flower Pattern' they is.`cre par, dishes. Drawings above_ are for _..... to any pax, ..f Great Britain or Ireland, postage fre • --. BIRTHS. of s On the 27th ult., aOlornse M r s. II Charringten, , 9, H . daughter. On the 24th ult., at Smeato.N 3 Lady Buchan a son. Greig' On the 27th ult., at Le t the wife o y onstone, e f Dr. of a son. • . it, 113°t" On the 27th ult., at Hordle House, near j.rn ingto il.c lady of John Rivett Carnac, Esq.. of a daugliiate.• _ f pr os On the 28th ult., at Blackheath-parkr the lady u W. Deacon, Esq., of a daughter. . ' MARRIED. Sir 11°- On the 29th ult., at St. Mary's, Bryanston-rquare,,, ...,.jett, 'lee-. s l e bert Charles Dallas, Bart., to the Hon. Frances , of relict of the late Charles Des Voeux, Esq., (eldestroi,„ho late Charles Des Voeux, Bart.,) and youngest daughte " , . Lord Ellenborough. the 11° , Hepburn, os On the 29th ult., at Christchurch , urt til e - W. Courthope, 8.A., youngest son of the late . I:l°.ottrigcs' Esq., of Whiligh, Sussex, to Caroline Elizabeth? 3 hire- ,A, f• daughter of John Ryle, Esq., of Henbury, Ches to erstn , "' o f On the 28th ult., at Si. Peter's Church, liam bdenr ici ' ef R. Hebden, Esq., third son of the late W. He Stockwell, Surrey, to Ann, only daughter of Georg e Marylebo43.e,„,_ Esq., of Kew-green, Surrey. , DD. Old s ldes t- On the lath ult., at Upp I E er Homerton, William, e Vie' of the late Mr. W. C. Bo3d, aged 14. George On the 28th ult. , a t St. John's-wood, John Esq., aged 67. aged 3 2 . the On the 2 8 th ul t., at Peck Lam, Mr. W. Boy!, ag ..adl oy, O n the'29th ult., at the Green Park Lodge, Plc' rt Ri g ht Hon. Lady William Gordon, aged 80. . too, 'f lub° On the 26th ult. at Canonbury-square, Isling , .. M e ac-ck,.Esq. , aged 74. Ol .“ ... ~,1114,,, . _ London : Printed and Published by BIURDO 1 4 • 1 0 7 0 0 1,1 so. 112, Strand, at The Sun. Office, We° 112 2 as I IS+ , . the county of Middle:es t Fridsh OctOor -I 1 M011\"INk; SUN i~. 4 , ~~ • ~ ~ 1