The Sun. — London, England, 1828-06-13 00:00:00

pjf‘; th etter SILK TRADE. $ . , 0 1. • LIGON presented a petition from the Silk kiiwsters of Brockley, praying for protection t fl o st the importation of foreign silk. li s , i 4 1 E. SOMERSET presented a similar peti viftloto Overbury. n • LITTLETON, in presenting a similar peti ,l, f. l tt en l °ln Newcastle-under-Lyme, begged to call the 11 4 ic% of the Secretary for the T reasur y t o th e tilt 3, t e t of the.petition, the petitioners complained of iik el l 3 %ration of the law of 1821, and he wished to 4 „ 4 le Hon. Gentleman whether it was intended to "fie th e protection afforded under that law. ;Lit t : G..DAWSON said in reply, that it was the l't vl tlan of the Vice President of th e B oar d o f Ilie,e to i n t ro d uce a Bill t o con ti nue t h e present f ar one year longer. k l tt, SIDENT OF THE BOARD OF TRADE. b et. l% O'BRIEN moved for a new Writ for a Mem tilt `° serve for the county of Clare, in the room of tle t „ ; 'gilt Hon. Vesey Fitzgerald, who, since his 4 5 ,,.!0 had accepted the office of President of the 'a of Trade.—Ordered. ' I At ALE-HOUSES LICENSING BILL. '), t ter a short co nversa ti on w i t h M r . S ec retary 1 1 : l 'i Mr. ESTCOURT fixed Tuesday next for the t, k e resolving its e lf into Com m it tee on t h e Al e - its Licensing Bill. Ale sin the suggestion of Mr. HOBHOUSE, Mr. HUME I i tt i i llew a mot i on o f w hi c h h e h a d g i ven notice Ilk, l l a evening, to bring in a Bill to regulat e t h e likg of the poll by allot, in cities, towns, cou nt i es , ue 'rotighs, until e I i THE CATHOLIC QUESTION. ),,,' P. BURDETT presented a petition from 4 $ Parish in the cou n ty o f K err y, in favour of the holle Claims, and spoke nearly as follows : , e k ,,llgh the d ec i s i on o f t h e ot h er H ouse o f Parlia -1 11has been against the question, it strikes me, 1 " . trust that it will be considered by the people N 4 land, that there is a fairer prospect of success 1 t hat there has hitherto been—(Hear, hear)— t a 'eat there arc more reasonable grounds of hope re future. I hope that this view of the subject It f ate the effect of tranquillizing men's minds, Of allaying that irritation which it is impossible. it AL hey must not feel; for it is impossible that t ' l l 6 of men can be debarred from the rights of t lt it -''ommon nature, and froto the liberty of their Y- I trust that between this and the next ',11 1 1. 11 of Parliament—calli ng t o mind the temper 'Veh the discussion h as b een carr i e d on, calling , I ‘ 1 . ! 1 (1 the decision - that h as t a k en place in this \ si7 in favour of the measure—something will be \'N e cl upon that may prov e successful. And ls is t ais House shall take into cons id era tion the iit itity of this question remaini ng in its present N, I trust that it will next Session be ready to il t , li, 4 . t e the app ea l a l re ady made, a n d t h at t h e Ca tk: will be able to go to the oth er H ouse , Netened by that appeal—(Cheers) --whil e that 1 47 4 1 tself, w h oever may th e n be Mi n i ster, w ill N I still further convinced of the necessity of a i lk i k adoption of some conciliatory -measure.— el tll that the R oman C at h o li cs of Ireland will 1 ,, . '" "'lime hoe that I entertain on this occasion, t i li tat • • p th "%ti t4l It will have the effect—not of inducing ! ktb, relax in their ex er ti ons , nor in any effort t telli l ,'' haw th ey are enabled to make, but of con i°tt ' Ni t Y discontent that they may naturally feel eYgi, Claims being again rejected; but though f .atlp e . t op this mode of expressing their feelings, re4,olat they will s till continu e , un d er th e bend ' i nk d l and of law, to claim those ri g hts, which I ids t c ialtiot much longer be withheH. Ie the ' 1 sol ki: or disappointment, Sir, I h ave d er i ve d one ;lev ed t 1 from our having a Ministry which h a s N I 7, subject of a great part of its former li t i ll ,"Y their means we have got rid of all that vet with which it m as formerly encumbered , „port nufed ► ntb , : _Ad- omarY Chie f Dire" esolo- Y ll'e ) pre' , f ,or. ° aid Great iol - I of a Pe" m the 3 r the r ion °' rt the oreig give n ! ncott" yai nf !rico," Ye'. of eula rdered ,eating ics i" to bc Je prc indow with it this •oduce is Dili *as to NI equalize the.duty up o n g l a ss ma nu f ac tu re d i n Ind and Scotland, with a view to prevent filing in that article. sale DAWSON brought in a Bill to regulate the AS, bf Exciseabl e A r ti c l es en b oar d o f p ac k e ts. T , a few words from Mr. Alderman and Mr. P. to VON, .the bill was read a first tim e and ordered x ue read a s econ d ti me on M on d ay nex t. I, 'lr. DAWSON brought in the Annual Sugar zuties, Bill.—Read a first time, and ordered to be ad a second ti me on M on d a y nex t. 4 , 401 xi DAWSON moved for a copy of the Report Oh s" Commissi o n ers o f th e P ost - o ffice, and also a v t ;rYof th e Memorial presented by the inn-keepers - Holyhead-road. —Ordered. TRANT presented a petition from Dover - u .. 418 t. the Ale-house Licensing Bill. co n ,,_ , BASTARD presented a petition from Ma e '‘A: against farther concessions to the Roman NI% EYRON presented a petition from Hertfori -'co. PraYing for the abolition of Negro Slavery. •u i • LEGEi KECK presented a p e titi on f rom t ; 44 owners in Leicestershire, praying for a small et circulation. w • DUGDALE present e d a p et iti on f rom War le,!%hire p ra yi ng f or t h e a b o li t i on o f N egro Sl avery. } :)tr J. NEWPORT presented a pet i tion f rom the 0 9 f .,,e, en merchants of B e lf as t p ra yi ng f o r a redu c ti on 'lle duty on tobacco. 4 • r. Alderman THOMPSON presented a peti from the Master Butchers of London and West er, against the removal of Smithfield Market. n r7: Petitioners stated, that one of the consequences t • ae removal would be, the increase in the price of tof a penny per pound to the consumer. If the ~uutise would postpone the introduction of any mea e upon this subject, he (Mr. Ald erman Thomp ,„" had no d ou b t t h at t h e C orporat i on o f London d, th „_ °4l between this and next Session, adopt some pi: 4 .e which would remedy th e i nconven i ence coin- Itied of by a petition presented last night. J. YORKE said, if there was any truth in the 'enlent re l a tiv e to this ma r k e t con t a i ne d i n a /T il ted paper put into his hands at the door of the tr , ° , 44 e, it was high time for the H ouse t o i n t er f ere do away with the nuisance ; for what with the Clrld Junction co ncern, an d t h e gore o f bl oo d sent i' e ttl this market and the a dj o i n i ng s l aug h ter -h ouses k• te the Th ames , h e s h ou ld not b e surprised to see a . fl erai vomit throughout the House.—(Laughter.) I jolonel TRENCH was d eeply i mpressed with e necessity of some alteration, and he thought nav e suggestions might be taken from the plan b:Pted in P ar i s , by which alterations of th e u t m o s t , h 4 efit to the metropolis might be made, and he ti °ltld suggest the propriety of turning the Peniten -41, at Milibunk, into one great abattoir. I ,ir• Alderm an WOOD sa id, the petition pre kh"ted last night was signed by persons who t, nothing of the subject ; and with respect di t he suggestion respecting the Penitentiary be iq d not see how it could remedy any eue of the Caveniencies set forth in that petition. The °r Porati on o f L on d on h a d at var i ous t i mes b roug h t t bi lls, from 1802 to 1810, to enable them to change pit , Mark e t, b u t th ose 'Bill s were d e f eate d by map th,es of th at M ouse . H e approve d o f t h e prayer of tio Petition, and had no doubt that upon full inquiry blame would attach to the Corporation of %d on. p r i l : lt h e e ci petition was brought up, and ordered t o b e i ° : message was brought from their Lordships stet- B l at th e y h a d agree d t o th e different privat e th t "', and also requestit.g a Copy of the Report of C ommittee in 1824, on the Salmon Fisheries of ~ `"tiand• kr. Ald erman THOMPSON move d f or a return t, number of ships, with their tonnage, belong- V 0 Great Britain, in 1825, 1826, and 1827. MUNDAY presented a petition from 11- x . ' for the abolition of slavery. A t I(.ENNEDY presented a petition from the ih." 3o yterians of Canada, praying that they might b, 4ll owed to share in any provisions made for the 7estamt Clergy in Canada. ti o ' ll fter a few words from Mr. ESTCOURT, the peti q/.4s referred t o th e C ana d a C omm it tee . kh o f.' PENDARVES presented a petition for the At 160 4 o f Slavery, from Truro. i t b r , I % PORTMAN presented a petition from Mary 'he, against the Friendly Societies Bill. —so that whenever this question shall again come under discussion, it will not be necessary to enter either on ancient treaties—such as the Treaty of Limerick or others—or on the pledges supposed to arise out of those treaties. Instead of this, Sir, we shall only have to consider the question on the ground of common sense and common expediency; which, after all, is the strongest, and, indeed, the only real ground on which it can be considered. Besides, I also feel confident, that a person like the Nobleman at present at the head of the Govern ment, would never hold out a prospect that could be ; liable to any am bi gu ity, on a su bject of such v i ta l importance a s thi s . —(H ear , hear.) --It is impossibl e that the Duke of Wellington should give to the Ca tholics rational grounds of hope, if there were not in his own mind rational hope of their being fulfilled. Under these circumstances I am happy to leave this question ; and I have no doubt, that when it comes to be considered with that candour which we have every reason to believe that it will (and seeing that it is already narrowed thus far into one point, as it were), it will not be difficult to accomplish the end that we have in view.—(Hear.)—There is hardly any person now, • in either House of Parliament, who considers this question any longer as one of that vital importance which it was once held to be.—(Hear, hear.) — While this question is put solely on the ground of securities, arid those who wish for these 'securities will not suggest what they should be; and especially since others have so long and so frequently at tempted, by every means they can devise, to satisfy them, it is now incumbent on those who put the question on that point to state what securities they will be satisfied with. They should act as was done with respect to the repeal of the Test and Corpo ration Acts—they should let7us know what they dc mand.—(Cheere.)—l think that it would be wise for them to follow the opinions of the Noble Duke at the head of the Administration. I fully agree with that noble person, that it is not for us to enter into terms with any party. It is not for us to ask leave of the Pope what we should do, but we ought fearlessly to speak the language of Legislators, re solved to perform a great duty to their fellms-sub jects. Above all, we should act justly towards them, and, depend on it, than justice a greater se curity there can be none. Whatever other securi ties may be thought necessary on the part of those who are anxious to guard against the supposed de signs of the Catholics, I do not pretend to prize them very highly. I do think, as it was expressed by Lord Liverpool, that if these claims arc inadmis sible on constitutional principles, there is an end to the question. " I put no value," said that Noble Lord, "on securities in that case." The best se curity is to settle the question in that way that will give the most satisfaction, by admitting, on the broad basis of justice, those who lay claim to these rights. It was his opinion that the measure should be carried on these grounds. He, like my self, little valued these additional securities. At the same time, I must say also that I am not hostile to any reasonable securities that can be consistently offered and consistently accepted, and that would be quite satisfactory to the Catholics themselves, and such as, without actually becoming Protestants, they can reasonably give. I should be sorry, however, to annex securities as a condition; because it would, as it seems to me, do away with the grace of the inea sure.—(Hear, hear.)—Every body knows that in conferring a favour there is as much obligation laid on the party favoured by the manner in which it is granted us by the boon itself. It would be more wise and more dignified, on our part, and in my Opie nion more calculated to have the effect desired, if we could see this measure granted without any con e ditions. The grand security will be, that it will unite all men of all religious persuasions in one com mon bond of constitutional freedom. In poss ess i ng equal' rights, they will have a common interest in supporting the State. They will be no longer con sidered as belonging to a different part of this great kingdom, nor as sectaries having different interests from each other, and placed under a different system of law with various disqualifications. The grand security is, that this proposition will take away all the causes of dissatisfaction; and I may here remark, that existing as they do at present, these persons have not on any occasion been found wanting to their country. Their services have not been with held, though they have net ceased their complaints, as they should not; for were they, as it has been said by their ablest advocate in another place —were they capable of enduring this grievance without com plaining, they would not deserve relief.—(Cheers.) They have brought forward their claims by legal and constitutional means, and now have the good wishes of every generous and just mind in the country,what ever may be his religious opinions. The grand secu rity then is, in the first place, to take away all cause of discontent from millions of our Catholic fellow subjects. If we should find that they are not contented ' with the justice we have administered to them, the effect would be to re-unite the Protestant interest into one body, who, with one voice and one arm,would be against them. The Protestant establishment would then be placed on a rock from which - in vain they would endeavour to remove it. In that case it would become, as it is now, indeed, a Protestant as well as a Catholic question, and more Protestant than Catholic, as concerning the interests of the State, and as concerning the stability-of the country. It is Catholic only as a matter of grievance to a great number of persons professing that religion. It is a cause of weakness to the Protestant Govern ment, by making the Protestants look on each other with feelings of reproach and ill will. We who ad vocate these claims, are placed in an unfriendly po sition towards those who oppose them, not, I admit, with violence turd virulence as formerly, for there are now hardly more than two or three of that spirit remaining. I confess that I cannot help looking on them as bigots and as Popish bigots, too, in the most Popish point, according to their own showing; because, if, as they say, it be the character of the Roman Catholic Church to be intolerant, and to refuse justice to those who differ from it, they make themselves liable to all the objections they urge to the admission of the persons, whose rights and just claims they oppose. The great ground of security is, that this measure will . unite all the Protestants in the country in one common band, for the defence of the Protestant Establishment. The existing law is the only means by which seven millions of people can be kept united as one man against the Government of the country. The only means by whi c h suc h a un i on as t hi s can b e e ff ected among persons of all classes, is the feeling of the per secution they suffer for their religious opinions —the only means to keep the Catholic community or ganised and in subjection to the Government, which is regularly carried on amongst them in spite of the existing Government of the country. Ireland dis plays in this respect a singular phenomenon. It shows how easily men are gdverned with their own consent. There is an Association, I will not say armed with no authority, for it was the greatest au thority in Ireland, but with no power except what it derives from the volunta ry o b edience o f t h e peop l e . It is difficult to say whether any Government could be devised by which millions of men could in the sa me way be brought to act as one man on all occa sions. This is the great danger we have to dread ; and I must say it is a situation not to be endured; but I see eo alternative for it but the settlement of this question. Nobody pretends to deny that this danger exists. Nobody proposes to begin a war of extermination against seven or eight millions of our fellow-subjects. The danger has arisen from the mode in which it has been fostered and fomented by —it is a hard word to say the folly, but, I will say --the impoliey of those Administrations who have succeeded each other since this question has became a matter of dispute. By degrees they have, by their mode of proceeding, fomented the,discontent of the- Catholics until they are made .a compact body, of which we cannot get rid, and ought not, if we could, by any means. Their situation Admits of no alter native but that single measure of justice which could cost us nothing., and which would leave us strong and united to rely on 'slur own power to resist any consequences that might ensile. I really do believe that nothing would settle, confirm, and strengthen the Protestant establishment so much as to take away every cause of dissatisfaction not only among the Catholics, but the Protestants. The great body of the Protestants of Ireland, fully one-half of them, are anxious that this question should be set tled. Every body agrees that it ought to be set tled, and no man Is able to point out any other way of settling it than the present. We have been told by a Noble Person of high legal authority, in the very last debate oil this subject, that it was surrounded with all sorts of difficulties, great, and almost im possible to overcome; but he said it was our duty somehow or other (these were his very words), to surmount them. When I heard this, I expected to 1 find some way pointed out for surmounting these difficulties : but there we conic to a "lame and im potent conclusion," for nothing was offered beyond pointing out our duty, and the danger of not doing it. But not one word did I hear as to the way in which it %Vas to be done, In concluding I have only to express my satisfaction at the view which the first Minister of the country has taken on this subject.— It seems to be really a question of that kind which belongs to the Government to settle.. The measure ought to come from the Administration.—(Cheers.) and since we now have at the head of the Govern ment a man capable of deciding on questions of po licy and judging for himself—a man of strong under standing, who sees his point, and is not to be deter red from pursuing it, I will express my hope and faith—though I must confess my hope is stronger than my faith—that that line will be pursued. —(Loud cheers), and that " we shall not be obliged to bring forward and support any more motions in this House, in utter despair that it is in our power to serve those on whose behalf we make then), except by bringing their cause under discusssion. The Question can only be properly introduced, brought forward by the Government itself; for it is of soch magnitude; it affects all the interests of the country so deeply, not only what are commonly called its interests at home and abroad, but those which more materially and immediately concern the public in that which has been called its most sensitive part— its pocket ;—it absorbs the resources of the country to such an extent; for, unquestionably, if it were not for this dispute with the people of Ireland, mil lions of public money might be saved—that it is of the highest and most urgent importance to have it put into a train of settlement without delay. I trust that it will not fall to my unhappy lot to bring it forward again. If it should, I shall be much disap pointed., But I do hope, that next Session we shall take it into consideration on the motion of his Ma jesty's Ministers themselves. They alone are able to make a proposition that shall set the question at rest, and give tranquillity and security to the whole kingdom. Mr. Secretary PEEL—As the Hon. Baronet has expressed a hope that this question may be taken up by the Administration in the course of next Session, and that some measure will be proposed by them for the relief of the Roman Catholics, I wish to say a few words, from my desire to prevent any miscon struction of my opinions on this question. By the Constitution of his Majesty's Government, each individual Minister has the right for himself to form his own opinions, exercise his own judgment, and state his own sentiments on all questions of public importance. It is only necessary for me to state, that for my own individual opinion on this question, I must refer to the declarations I have repeatedly made in the debates that have taken place upon it in this House. I speak only for myself, and I only desire that no inference may be drawn as to my opinions,,except from the course I have pursued and the declarations I have made. Mr. WM. BARING remarked, if the object of Government was to preserve public order, and de fend these who had property from those who had it not, the situation of the Government of Ireland must be peculiarly difficult, because there was no country in the world in which the division between the rich and the poor was so broad and sudden. In England there were intermediate links in the chain of society between the highest and the lowest ; but in that country they were wanting altogether. The Right Lion. Gentleman (Mr. Peel) would, perhaps, tell the House how the Government of Ireland was to act in the anomalous situation in which it was placed. It. did not depend on the Aristocracy, but faction, and its only means of controul ever the people was the bayonet. If no concessions were intended to be made to the Catholics of Ireland, it would be better to take from them their priVileges, which only served continually to work up their feel ings and excite their discontent. Sir J. YORKE—I must say, after hearing them both, I would rather take the Hon. Baronet's speech than that of the Hen. Gentleman who has followed him. I observe that, in the discussion of this ques tion, there is always some intimidation used on both sides. I admit that the legal number and odium thcologicum of Dr. Duigenan, are left out of the de bates, and that we hear less of the fire and faggots. —(A laugh.)—But still I du think the Hon. Mem ber for Westminster, Whe alluded to what was lately said in the House of Lords,--(Order I)—rather goes beyond the Noble Duke's speech. There was certainly agreat deal of liberality in it, and I concur entirely in the eloquent terms in which the Hon. Baronet spoke of the Noble Dike. But as far as I recollect, what he said was very different. The Noble Duke said, " I can't see my way"--(A laugh ;)--if we give up these matters, what secu rities are we to have ?" And there was not any Learned Doctor there, either on the Spiritual or the Temporal Bench, who could tell liim.—(A laugh.) —I agree with the Noble Duke, that in giving up laws which have been enacted for the defence of our establishments, when we are not able to provide any Isubstitute for them, we should not act wisely. That is my feeling, though I am aware it is not regular on my part to allude to what has passed in the other House.—(A laugh.) Mr. C. W. WYNN--It was with great regret that I learned from the votes of the other House, that in the Resolution we sent up to it, the Lords have refused to concur. I should not have been surprised if they had met it by proposing to change the Resolution to one pledging themselves to take the subject into consideration early next Session. But when every man, both in and out of Parliament, concurs in this one point, that the danger to which the country is exposed is pressing and imminent, that such a propositieu should be met by a negative is really to me matter of astonishment.—(Cheers.) I have many allusions this evening to what was said in the debate in the other House; but I do not myself know, what passed there, except as I can judge by those reports by which the public in general are made acquainted with the proceedings of Parliament. I had not personally the opportunity of judging as some of my Hon. Friends had; and I do confess that from any of the reports I have seen, I do not entertain. those sanguine expectations ex pressed by the Hon. Baronet (Sir Francis Burdett). The speeches I have read may be incorrectly stated. I see in them only a studious wish to excite hope, but an equally studious determination to say no thing that can be construed into a pledge to gratify that hope.--(Hear, hear.) I thi n k t h e conduct of my Right Hon. ?riend (Mr. Peel) is in finitely more fair and manly. -- (Cheers.)—H e re verts to his former declarations, which I remember well; in particular those of 1825, when he said that " he conceived any securities would be insufficient but the exclusion of the Roman Catholics from seats in the Legislature 'id from the Councils of the State." Such, by reference to the reports, which are, upon the whole, tolerably accurate, I find to have been his declaration. That, at least, was intel ligible. But' even the other speeches, to which allu sion has been made, do not contain expresfions that induce me to entertain such sanguine expectations as some of my friends do, that we shall see a change of system with regard to this question. I can only say that I shall be most glad to find myself mistaken, and them correct. I do think, however, that when it is admitted, with the unanimous consent of every individual, that there is urgent and imminent danger existing, the suspension of thiS great ques tion does seem to me a very extraordinary proceed ing. Ido feel that we are entitled to call on the Government, if not with a view to this particular debate, for the general information of the public, to state, whether it is their intention that the law on this subject shall continue in its present state, or whether they intend to propose that any alteration of it should take place ? An answer one way or the other is due in explanation to the House, and the time is come when we should call for it. (Cheers.) Lord ALTHORP agreed in what had fallen from his Hon. Friend, the Member for Westminster, in feeling great satisfaction at the more m o d era t e tone in which this question had been discussed. He could not also help feeling gratified, that it was aow unanimously agreed that the state of Ireland Was One of great danger:, He felt gratified at this admission, because it was impossible that any persons could again be trusted with the Government of the country, who would think it inconsistent with their duty to saggest some measure for the removal of that danger. The Right Hon. Gent: (Mr. Peel) had alluded to the Constitution of the present Government, which he (Lord Althorp) considered most micensfitu tional.—(Cheers.)--He thought that an Adthinistra.i. tion formed Oh the principle of disagreement,tts to the roost important qnestiOns concerning the interests of the cOnntry, was a Government which ought not to have the confidence of the House. He had never given his confidence to any Administration so formed, and he never would give it. But before he resorted to hostile measures, having seen so many formed on that principle, he would carefully watch its proceedings. Sir T. LETHBRIDGE agreed with that part of the Noble Lord's opinion, as to having an Adminis tration divided on the most vital question of the day. He considered it as the greatest mifortune this country laboured under. If, of late, he had placed his confidence in his Majesty's Government, it was because he considered ft was formed on a united, in telligible, and clear principle—(Laughter, and cheers from the Opposition benches):—lt must be some thing other than what he saw that would convince him of the converse of that proposition, notwith standing the cheers from the other side. He really knew not what forms meant, when arguments were built, by those who boasted their acquaintance with the rules of Parliament, on matters which could not regularly come to the knowledge of the House. What had happened elsewhere could not be takEn as a ground of argument in that House. He was not surprsed to hear the Hon. Member for West minster adopt a line of argument consoling to him self and those who had supported his proposition. He (Sir T. Lethbridge) had not seen any thing in the'manner in which it had been received elsewhere that looked like a matter of congratulation to the Hon. Baronet, or those who took the same views. The resolution was negatived by a majority of 45 a considerable majority. He wished, from the bot tom of his heart, that the Catholic Question could be settled with satisfaction to all parties, those claim ing and those refusing. He must also add, that he did not see that ground of alarm which was pictured out to them in a way bordering on intimidation, and which he thought was anything but politic on the patt.of those who advocated the Catholic Claims. Besides, it was contradicted by what hap pened in Ireland day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year. He certainly thought the Meetings of the Roman Ca tholic Association in Dublin, where the leaders tit tered violent and unconstitutional speeches, ought to be put down by the Government of that country, which was, in his opinion, submitting in an unbe coming manner to that body. But he was not car ried away with the idea that there was any imme diate danger. He did not apprehend that Ireland was about to bp separated from the empire. Argu ments of that nature were used purely ad cuptandum, and ought not to weigh a feather with the Members of that House. He thought there was only one way of meeting the difficulties in which they were placed, and that was by remaining at rest, and by not con tinually making speeches upon the subject, for the purpose of intimidating the opponents of concession. He was quite ready to admit that there was in the country, a growing feeling of a description favour able to the concession of the Catholic Claims. (Loud cheering.) He would admit that most de cidedly. (Cheers.) He would admit that the whole question began to be received more favourably. It was, however, by temperance, and patience, and calm deliberation, that its advocates must expect to make further progress; for changes so great as it must produce were not to be brought about in an in stant. He did not mean to say that such a change was far distant. The time in which it could be ef fected might not be long ; but it was absolutely ne cessary to the success of such a question that it should be allowed to make way in the minds of the people. (Hear, hear.) Mr. S. RICE, after complimenting the lion. Baronet (Sir T. Lethbridge) upon the manly course he had always adopted with regard to the Catholic Question—at all times undisguised and unflinching, but, at the same time, a manly opponent—observed, that the House now, for the first time, heard from that Hon. Baronet the admission—an admission frankly given—that the cause of the Catholics was making progress; and that the Catholics, and the friends of the Catholics, had, from the mere pro gress of opinion, a right to look forward to com plete, and not very distant success. He differed, however, with the Hon. Baronet, as to the means by which that result'was to be effected. The Hon. Baronet thinks that the cause of the Catholics is to be advanced by abstaining from all discussion ; by— to use his own expression —allowing the matter to rest ; and; above all, by not making speeches upon the subject in this Mouse. Now, he must own, that if the Catholic Question had made any pro gress either here or elsewhere, it has been solely by the means of discussion, and by discussion only could they ever hope to obtain the accomplishment of their wishes. There was no powei which could prevail upon men who felt themselves to be aggrieved, to be at rest. They might say to them, be peaceful— be temperate. But they could not say to them, submit to injustice, when they knew well that there were constitutional means of giving utterance to their complaints. He would remind the House of au instance of the effect of such a course* as that which the Hon. Baronet recommended. At the time when his Noble Friend (Lord John Russell) brought in the Bill for the Repeal of the Test and Corporation Acts, the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Peel) gumentitiphoenan appealfrom Dissen ters, and contended because th e y were s il ent ln that therefore they had no grievances.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—He would tell the Catholics, by their hopes of the future, and from their experience of the past, to press forward their claims upon all and upon every occasion. Let them be firm and vigilant, but tranquil and obedient to the laws of their country, and their cause must ultimately triumph. The adop tion of such a course involved nothing inconsistent. It was now four years since the Catholic Associa tion was declared a separate aad distinct body from 'the Catholic people, pursuing a course of proceeding hostile to the principles of the Constitution. The Hon. Baronet had told them in the course of his speech, that thu g conduct of that body was still the sam e, yet that no remedy had been adopted 'by his Majesty's Government. There was no remedy which ever could be devised for the evils of the Ca tholic Association but emancipation. All other ex periments • had failed. The Hon. Member then ad verted to the suggestions thrown out to the Catho lics upon the subject of the securities which they had to propose in the event of their emancipation. Now, if any part of his conduct deserved well of his Catholic fellow-subjects—if any thing coming from him could be attended to—he would state then, that they would be thc'most ill-advised people upon earth, if on any bare and unsupported suggestion of what might be done in the event of certain cir cumstances, they were to go into an abstract conside ration of what they would consent to give in the way of security. He would say to the Catholics, disclaim the necessity ofany securities—go at all times upon the broad principle of free and unfettered right to a par ' ticipation in the adeanteges of the Constitution ; but let them be at all tit nee ready to receive from their opponents any siiggestioii non the subject of the measures which would satisfy thern in the event of the concession. He would implore the Catholics to avoid such discussions. It was easy to perplex and harass the public mind by suggestions of this description; but he warned them against involvitig themselves in pledges on abstraet questions, which may be eventually turned against them, end never can, by any possibility, be brought to operate ift their favour. The Hon. Bart. had spoken of intimidation. Nothing was farther from the intention of the Advo cates of Emancipation than any desire to intimidate the Members of that House. They could not be so weak es to suppose their opinions were to be in fluenced by a sense of persoeal fear; but was there nothing like the fear which came under the deno mination of prudence ? If the Hon: Burt. was about to go to war, would he not inquire into the nature of the resources of his enemy, and into the means he possessed for resistance ? It was from coesidera dons of this kind—considerations of prudence, de rived from the situation of Ireland, and the necessity of eteisolidatitig the resources of the Empire, that they drew the arguments which this Hum Baronet called intimidation. The Hon. Member coneitided by declaring that he rejoiced exceedingly in the fate which had attended their exertions in that House, and in the advance which they had made in the other • and that he looked forward to a speedy ac complishment of their wishes, as much from the goodness of their cause as from the good sense of the Tribunal to which they made their appeal—(Hear.) Lord MORPETH felt very much disposed to concur with the Hon. Gentleman below him: (Mr. S. Rice), and the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. C. Wynn) who preceded him, in not feeling so very credulous upon the subject of the present situation of the Catholic Cause. There were however, some things in the present condition of that question which gave him hopes of a better termination of the efforts of the friends of the Catholics. Into the motives of the Noble Duke at the head of his Majesty's Govern= men he could not pretend to dive, and therefore it was not in them tkat he reposed his hopes; but that Noble Duke entertained a very different opinion from what he (Lord M.) did of what was due to the character of a Statesman, if he did not, after the de clarations he had made in the debate, feel himself bound to do something towards the settlement of the Catholie Claims: (Hear, hear, hear.) If a danger was admitted by a Statesman to exist, it became ne cessary for that .Statesman to endeavour to find a re medy ; and he conceived that the Noble Duke could not so far forget what was due to the character of a Statesman and a Minister, as to encourage hopes of relief, and give a pledge of a disposition to re lieve without having any intention to redeem that pledge.--(Hear, hear.) Upon these considerations, and upon a sense of this virtual pledge--considera tions founded upon a sense of the sagacity of the Noble Duke--he entertained the feeling that another Session could not elapse without their seeing some thing done to set this natter completely at rest. — (Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord concluded by obser ving, that he thought it a little hard in the Hon. Bart. (Sir T. Lethbridge), to charge the Members of that House with making speeches both ad terrorem and a til t a c t a ‘ p v: t i a s ; a t dnu art n o in Ntvi hich ttillueesHtioortii.. B a A ro t n e a t i ihead vents, :; set them an example.—(Hear.) Mr. BROUGHAM concurred most cutdially with those Members who rewarded it as a most se rious evil, that the other House had thought fit to reject that most moderate Resolution which had been sent up for their approval—a Resolution which pledged that House to the same course to which they had pledged themselves,—eamely, to take iate their consideration the state of the laws affecting the Roman Catholics. In the rejection of that Resolu time he, however, iti opposition as it was to the opinion of some of his friends, still must say, that he found great ground for consolation and for' hope. —( Hear.) He most fairly admitted that he agreed with the Hon. Baronet (Sir F. Burdett) in saying, that his hope on this occasion was much more lively than his faith ; but that some comfort and some sa tisfaction, as well as hope, was to be found in the inamier in which the Resolution had been rejected, no man could have any doubt, who had attended to the peculiar circumstances and opinions which it disclosed. The advocates of the Catholics had not so much to boast in that debate of the co-operation of zealous allies, as of the admissions of former adversaries. The tone of all the observations of their opponents was different. They had no longer the same intolerant and bigotted spirit to con tend with which had resisted all their former attempts for the same object. All the learned and legal lumber had been completely thrown overboard.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) They no longer heard those things which they had for merly' listened to with pain and with sorrow in avery discussion, In fact, it was now plainly and distinctly admitted from all quarters, that the ques tion of giving relief to the Catholics was a question of expediency,—(Hear, hear, hear,)—and to be met ' by legislation and not by negociation.—( Hear.) — There is no longer the same difficulty. They were not now to go to the Catholics, and say, will you take this, or are you prepared to accede to that; but they, the Legislative power, were to make up their minds, and prepare to carry through such a measure of relief as they might consider expedient-=regard being had in the settlement of the rights and privileges of the other great portions of their fellow-subjects. They were to legislate according to their own views of what is fitting to the case, leaving those who think securities necessary, and those who make ob jections upon the score of securities—not those who deny that securities are necessary—to propose the terms of the security. They had in this discussion obtained, too, another admission of great import ance, and from a very high authority—they had heard that the question was involved in danger, and difficulty, and embarrassment, to such an unparalleled extent, that no way was to be seen by which they could get out of their present dangerous situation. And what is to be the consequence of this situation ? That the Government are to do nothing but enjoin the people to be quiet. No step is to be taken to find a way out of the difficulty. Those who are charged with lie duty of protecting us, from danger, and providing for us in difficulty, and landing us in security and peace in a sheltered haven —the appointed pilots, who are to carry the vessel of the State into harbour, are to do nothing. He grieved to say that, in some quarters, the inference to be drawn from the arguments was, that where there appeared .to be much danger and a great deal of difficulty, to do nothing was the necessary conse quence of these dangers, rather than to attempt to find any means by which they could see their way through them. Of one thing there was no doubt; —the question had gained ground, he trusted, even more than he could yet see in any of the symptoms of the times. It haul gained much from concession —much from the progress of opinion; and be hoped and trusted it had gained more than already ap peared; but whatever they had gained, was by per severance-- by the unwearied perseverance of its ad vocates for the attainment of their objects. To. the Catholic population he would take the liberty to give his advice, in the hope that they would deign to follow it, as they had often done him the honour to follow it before. He would say to theme--continue to persevere in pressing your cause upon the atten tion of the Legislature—do it in all steadiness, and with all energy and firmness, but in all peacefulness --keeping the King's peace—obeying the laws, but never ceasing to urge your claims by respectful peti tions to Parliament. By these means—by the exer cise of their constitutional privileges, they must ultimately gain the full accomplishment of thei wishes.—( Hear.) Lord EBRINGTON felt sorry to 'differ from so many of those Hon. Members who surrounded him but he -really could not holdout to the Catholics the encouragement of hopes which, on his honour and in his conscience, he did not feel.—(Hear, hear, haul been his lot to hear those expressions in the other House to which so much importance was now attached, and to which it might not, per haps, be right to refer more particularly. in these expressions there certainly was a tone which indi cated the desire of some satisfactory termination of the question— a desire which had been repeated in their House that night by an Hon. Baronet oppo site (Sir T. Lethbridge), on all occasions the in flexible opponent of the Catholic Claims ; but in the sequel it appeared that there were difficulties in the way of that settlement, which were stated al mest as strongly as the Hon. Baronet had .stated them on that evening in the present discussion. !'tdtn what they had heard on this subject, he might be allowed tO refer to the expressions which fell from the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr, Peel), whose opposition to the question liacl,beeo both steady and consistent. That Right Hour. Cientlemen had said, as distinctly as language could convey it, that he knew of no irate: tion on the part of his Majesty's Government to brigg in any Bill for the relief of the Roman Catholics, but that he, as the organ of his Majesty's Government — Mr. PEEL here observed, that lie did not speak as the organ of his Majesty's Government. The observations he had made were on his own be2ialf, as an individual Member of the House, and not ou the part of the Government. Lord EBIIINGTON continued :--He meant to s 4 to say that the Right Hon. Gentleman, as an in dividual, the organ of tne Government in that House, maintained his entire wilier ,:orce to the opinions al ready expressed upon the (potion. Now , taking that declaration in context with t.'"'e vague expres sions of the Members of the other- liOuse, he must repeat, that he, for one, saw no ground (4 hope to the Catholics from the late discussion. His . hopes, he had any, were grounded, not en the speo:lle s in one House or the other, but on the increased id formation and enlarged intelligence of the people of this collator; and to them he looked for the accom plishment of an object the most desirable, and the difficulty attendant upon which be trusted his friends would not relax in their efforts to surmount. (Hear, hear.) Sir F. BURDETT, on the petition being brought up, said that there was not a shade of difference be tween him and his Noble Friend (Lord Ebrington) who had preceded him ; for whose principles, firm ness, and the freedom with which he spoke his sen timents, he entertained the greatest respect. Amidst the darkness which surrounded that country, and the evils of every kind and description by which it was beset s where— " No light but darkness visible Serv'd only to discover sights of woe, Regions of sorrow, doleful shades, where peace And rest can never dwell." He was desirous of putting the most favourable construction on the declaration of the Noble Duke at the head of the Government, and was willing to believe that he would not condemn the Catholics to the greatest punis . ..ment which was inflicted 911 those who, for the greatest crimes, were consigned to the infernal regions, to whom—in the language of the Poet which ends this description— hope never comes that comes to all." The Hon. Baronet repeated in conclusion, that what: , ever hope he placed in the expressions of the Noble Duke, it was less than that which he derived fro►n the increasing liberality of that House, and of the country. Mr. S. RICE brought in a Bill to facilitate the establishment of Schools for General Instruction in Ireland. Sir J. NEWPORT moved for Copies of the Nlinutes of Evidence taken before the Commissioner 3 appointed to inquire into the charges of milversa , tion in the Police Establishment of the Leinster District s sitting during the last winter in the Castle of Dublin.—The Motion was agreed to. ►_ _ On the Motion of Mr. 01:(RIEN, who stated that his object was to mill the attention of Govern ment to the expediency of assisting the manufac turers of Ireland by a reduction of the duty on coals, a Return was ordered to be laid before the House of the total amount of Duty received on Coals itn ported into Ireland for the three years ending 3th Jan., 1820, bat Jan., 1827, and .sth Jan., 1828. uue' a 4 pe' with tes. was verve :e of to whe •ru- Dun ided, at he g re' tatice rg, it au on duals !orre . e!I ID_ fairly• at he ourse at bc before St I-V e L CU IQIICCf 1 d- ion I" .e h Bd , ter ` ,atioU ,s ur er !our 6e s Je re' uP , to be GRAND JURY PRESENTMENTS (IRELAND.) Mr. GRATTAN moved for leave to bring in a Bill to a►►end se much of the Act of the 58th Gee. 111. as related to advances from Government on Grand Jury Presentments.—Leave given. The House then proceeded to the Orders of ti e Day. _ _ Mr. GRATTAN moved the second reading of the Assessment of Lessors' (Ireland) Bill. After a discussion between Sir J. NEWPORT, Mr. L. FOSTER, Mr. MooKu, and Mr. NORTH, the House divided—. Against the second reading .. 39 For the second reading 2l Majority against the second reading —l5 The House then went into a Committee upon the General Turnpike Acts' Amendment Bill.—Report brought up, and ordered to be taken into further consideration on Monday. The Corporate Funds' Bill way read second time, and the Committee fixed for to-morrow. The Sale of Game Bill was read a second time. Committee to-morrow. COUNTY LUNATIC ASYLUMS. Mr. R. GORDON moved, that the House le solve itself into a Committee on the County Lunatic Asylum Bill. Various verbal amendments were made, and the Report was ordered to be received to-morrow. The Surplus Ways and Means Bill was read a third time, and passed. ae c a o n u d n t militaryo tli e exp l e ir n . ce H i . n i c . u W rre l works in Newfoundland. REMOVAL OF SMITHFIELD MARKET. incurred in in brought public buildings up an Mr. R. GORDON gave notice that he would to-morrow move for a Committee to inquire into the fitness of removing Smithfield Market. Adjourned at Ten o'Clock. SHIPPING INTELLIGENCE. LIVERPOOL. JUNE 11.—Iligh water 32 min. past ten o'clock.— Wind N.W.—Arrived, the Georgia, Vernon, from Sa vannah ; Edgar, Vaughan, from Pernambuco, sailed 23d April; Providence, Downie, fetnn Teignmouth ; Glasgow, Kennedy, from Glasgow ; Betsey, --, from Wigton"; Phillips, from Dublin, with the mail—l ship, 21 brigs off at eight o'clock. D; t r .i d ) i t: . De c in t e x ra A l Private Signal—Messrs. Shawls, fur the Grace, from D OU TWA Ims—TromP, Dori. ha ven ; Othello, Tucker, for Wiscasset ; Catherine, Jones, for New Orleans ; the Lady Gordon, Coffin, 1. " inward.bound, No. 37, Grace, ' j ke ° t n t g , e' Gors r , li fO i r * E V iallu S r. l°te' forlig:tabNrievelj:ll.: and Telegraph Office, June 11. Wind at Holyhead W.N.W., Passed Holyhead ou t w ard-bound, No. 739 , t h e Gipsey, (steamer), for Waterford. Passedßritish passed Ho l y h ea d No. 682, Sir Francis Burton, outward bound, this moa n ing. A ship off Holyhead, inward bound, but has not yet idi ip P . oint Lyrae, shewn her numbers....-No more arrivals to report from Holyhead. .. THE THIEF DISCOVERED !--, -Yesterday morning a female servant (about 15 years of age,) at :t bureau, be accuh4s:odidumbhtetrnbouftbti farmer's in this neighbourhood, was suddenly heard by the A tt n at d so e i l n i c ... n , otes, houselc'eeper making a great outcry on the stairs ; she was eightfound s p o r t : er t e r i at g e n , s, b b n u t t se it nai w b a l s e fe e ahh o lier:s o r g ey. h soiuon t t o gitti sa ctrar y that she had seen a man in her master's room. It was soon distwvered that a bureau in the room bad been forced open and robbed of &e. which were in sight had been left untouched. Tho farmer came to Worcester and obtained the ser% ices of o i e k t e i aL u l iaeys i in hhohoeveuetirh theft, s n e: t f a maste r ', 1., t etei;ol:be. stair, ensconced nge en she confessed ht f l ORCHARD and another officer; ORCHARD'S profeseional sagacity soon convinced him that the thief wore petticoats ; culprit strictly maintained her inno raoftoemr ~,quesTtiiieonyionung young culprit girl closely, and examining the mastery sense i:asewtek irfohri eloquent nsoo,cp:moye: sid n e e r r a i t n ion wh o i pains, and ppalties / of the law ; relieved thw,golden majesties from a crann y in the ' declined prose cute.—Worcester Journal. , i ~_~ '~,