The Sun. — London, England, 1819-06-16 00:00:00

b' II nd t lket innt Member (The Protheroe) relative to the gs' e i ' t itt l lon• Member (Mr. Canning!s) declaration toile nisi i le niiie not intending to prosecute the matter misrepresentatio n w ere w ilf u l, r e minded th e H ume th a t the Right Hon. Gentleman left e dispos a l of the question entirely in their antil, and bad even a b sented himself from the 1I ."se on this debate, allowing the House to pursue s "ell steps as i t m i g h t d eem expe di ent . ' e motion was t h en agreed to, and the Reso- erTton passed without a division. Alt% WYNNE tben‘rese to follow up the resolu tmh by a motion for the p un i s h m e nt o f t h e indi wal. H e had ot course,, as' was usual, been al , 'ell to state at the Bar any circumstances in ex t,m'ation o f the offence. But c onsidering all the I: ! r e'n c tances, he thought the- House.would agree tts Inotion,—" That the Reporter who was . : ."Yot . t his Breach Piselege should be. ....crin oline(' to Net vgate." -1 ""Y thought it his duty to state, with tt'fereu ce to the o ff ensive passage which stated teetis in th e H ouse. to that he.wes present, Ihht be certainly heard cheers in the House. I A elr• lieouGuitst r e m ar k e d t h at no d ou bt scented 1:1 () 6e entertain e d as to the truth of the statement 11ell hY the Rsperter. Last night the case ra - `2 h e one of absolute wilful and malicious "'ire ' em ation. Butt now the statements which 7r.el,ebreeilii:i(lie were of a nature to alter the chae it then bore. As to the culpable liegligeuce of the individual, the House was tonllnct hail "numl to take into consideration what its former had bell dctlle i c t r i r v o a r r i i a a s r i otl s cases , F t r h o e a l t i ' t s l l : s a e t use tti always shewn a disposition to le iit ) ell .q. whi c h twist have led iedividuels into the tettUn that such o ff ences ivere not o f a nature t o o,i3e`ettly punished. As there was no malice in . 1 8 "se, lie trusted the House ,would not co s° t o commit t h e person w h o b a d made the s tt lBl4lt e to Neweate. At- th e s am e time he was so asst impressed with t h e i m p o rt a nce of unani le ( Y, its S uch cast's, that he would not go so tar as e te - Pl'ule !he m o t i on . B ut h e .:toed it might be t etttet. stiffkient t o c om m it the individual to the end-ully ,h e Se r j eant at ' A rms , i nstea d o f send g4l.l;inß Netegate. ANKE S seid e he was not aware that it was te‘a)t.lo,,, j t it stien cases to commit individuals to the o! the Seijeesnt -at -Arms. With regard to eeuhisetions to - the proposed place of confine -1,1 t, he recollected to, iusrance of the kind in lei '» Psrson so offending aeainst the House ttaa. t/m sent to Nesegate. It was.pettectly right eenteinottieisnltit tr a s ll%: ) , , l ) i g O ly r violeted their privileges.. W't Ii favou of liberty, he could h:; . er , forg et what was due to their privileges. He however, no desire for a heavy punishment. ICI'. Smile! (ot Cambridge) corrected the lost Ms tuber by referring to a case in April, to v u r 5 , in ehi e h t h e Editor of a Morning Paper, to t e t '' l mltenting on a Vote of the House relative i nipeaehmene of Lord Melville, was com 4C" to the cus t o dy o f . the Serjeant at Arms : tecoivlmetided toe most leuient punishment, hoped th at ir'would he changed froin New , Cite te the seejeatit at Arinc. t ee ," C. Vey:see, in reference to places of pe-"ne gttrtl tnent sot mete) , rt , ed by the House, men. ditr,i,,the Gate-house. Iu consequence of a vast I lion of expenee, lie had recommended ew e ; ^`"e, in pt etteenee _to the custody of the l ees " t at Arms. It, however, the ditlerence of "'s - re weived, he bad no obje e ction o the "ler eumshment. e.;, u. JAM ES Nl eceiteTosst entirely concurred in teints which had been app:icd to this libel, t; " fr ("11 the statement made • ihe Reporter at a 4. i 114 e. he was hil l convinced the error (great :, - ,,, vv4 5) was oeietentional—(llear !). - -He fully f,V t i t tcd the individual of wilful intention,. and b . '"g th is, he could not but vote for the lighter este I l ' u rneet. The appearance of talent and edit ,4ti" which the witness at the Bar shewed, would, Cott Persueded, induce the House to select that ui spouishment which would convey 16 such a r iOe ntan the l ea st f ee lin g of disgrace. As to at ejrs "roo himself from any part of the public tees stetl ,be sh ei de ev r treat them with indifference, in hd a case as that which was represented (for lie H ut seen it) to have so calotunioesly reflected 4111111 hint, with contempt.--(Hear, hear !)—He c s u felt himself ',mind to express his opinion in it' u t t, 4 "t of the eteeerally improved character of the oj i i . e Press; for whatever political bias particular st e , e - "l"Pers mey have and may exercise respecting lie ' se verel 'Jetties to which they were attached, Ih tilever recollected a period in which their co % ttl 'is exhibi te d more genera l d ecorum, more ge est„ ks att 4 1 more exemplary abstinence from a ll full . neon private life, and from those disgrace seeit'vasions of the privacy of domestic character le: e h Were once so muc h i n d u l ge d H eat i .) 0, 41 great and valuable improvement in the public ii i r t had arisen from e superior talents, the t e l ,Yent, and character of the proprietors, and the t er ` e '' °v ed advantages and bett er con dition, in every lei eel, of the Gentlemen who are employed un ,thette On this .account . alone, even ex 's've ill the demeanour of the Gentleman whom s t Y had, just heard at their Bar, he should .al l r , 9 t I VY Urge upon the House the propriety of 1(1 „ 4 "ing from any , degrading punishment -4,1" 1 )--the street of which must. be to have a e tt - e t ' t nY to take away that sense of self-respect se t 44 t o . ch 1 uldefl er en ish den in t chpersons ofaracter whic hthis it description.— was so essen weer r • M's , r. SMITH joined in pressing upon the .IS;r l Se the adoption .of the lesser punisheient.— N ti u _sioe had b een cons id erate l y ma d e to the ex . te. " which (leis;;ite the custody of the Sereeant Ar t Li m evoteld entail upon the Gentleinan who tr e • ueen examined, but be could assure tbe'Honse he kn ew the family of that Gentlellthll, who e:of great respectability ; he also knew the in al himself, who bad always borne the rha- C" . of being a well-behated, an excelleto, and young tilkll4, litkd that from his know tt-s.seeit them all, it would, he was convinced, be relief to their feelings that the committal .he to the Seejeant at Arms, instead of to ee eoe. . • iq~ l !, on.the night of the debate w hich th e offence hail been cionmittedi he had be!t tnd tf;e'tionourableMember (Nfr.'Hunie) th e 't) , 4l I , e heat d notice en allusion to the smile on isteri e l Benches, which was certainly at titre •followed by some cheers; The error, therefore, of the Reporter was in this respect sta . tonal enough, as far as respected the words in the parenthesis.—(Continued cheering.) Mr. BRNNET lose for two purposes-Ist, to concur in entreating the House to adopt the milder punishment, and abstain from exposing a cultivated mind to imprisonment in such a place as Nevegate and he rose, 2dly, for the purpose of exposing a calumnious statement riot iu the reports, hut in a commentary upon them, which appeared a few days•ago in taNewspaper.—(here !he Honourable Member read a long extract from a Ministerial Morning Paper, which reflected on some Gentlemen at the Opposition side of .the House.) Mr. •PkoritF.aort also preferred the moderate punishment. To men of education and literary talents, naturally imbued with the feelings of Gen tlemen, a punishment of the extreme .kind would .be keenly and severely felt. If, therefore, instead of there being a pieced[ nt of Committal to the Sedeant at Arms, there •had not been one, lie thought, this was just the case in which :they shoidd make a precedent for inflicting the milder punishment.—(Hear, bear !) Mr. IVY NN said, he did not feel the least diffi culty: in acceding to what appeared to be the ge neral wish of the House. He was, therefore, ;Tally to alter the words of his motion, and he trusted sufficient would be done to warn the Daily Press against a repetition of the offence which brought the individual in question under the dis pleasure of the House.—(Hear The quest ton was then put, that the Reporter be committed to the custody of the Serjeant at Arms.—Agreed to. PAIIGA. Lord CASTLAREAGH, in consequence of the wishes at :Sir C. 7,/ottek and other Gentlemen, presented several Papers illustrative of the Cession of ['area. On moving the' they should lie on the table, his Lordship evaded hine,elf of the oppor tunity of statieg, that loug before the taking of Parga an arrengemeete had been entered into be tween the Turks and this Country, by which Parga. was to be ceded to the Pasha. His 'Lord ship did not wish to le ovoke any debate on the present occasion. Wuile he deprecated all de bate, he hoped it wonld be clearly understood that he' was ready to afford Gentlemen whatever infor mation was its the possession of Government. F; um the moment that this . arraegement had been finally agreed to, measures were adepted for car rying the terms of the Treaty into effect; and (his Lordship further observed) he had the sat's faction of assuring the House that the terms were b;ghly advantageous to the Perguinotes—highly advantageous, considering :he peculiar cireem st alters of their case. The British troops were of course withdrawn, and those of the Pash a put in possession of Parga. ‘Ve had previously offered protection to all thoee who chose to withdraw from their native territories, besides obtaining a com pensation for what 'property they could not take with them. In this arrengemeat they had in chided territorial property, olive trees, P of the compensation to the amount of 150,000/. had already been received: These obst rvalions his Lordship thought necessary for the purpose of removing any erroneoes impression which the Seeech of the Honourable and Learned Gentle- , man (Sir Janes Mackietosh) might have made on the minds of those whet heard him. • His Lord ship then entered into a detail and explanation of the various Treaties, proving that the British Go vernment had never promised to assume and pre serve the hoitereigety of Parga. The people of the latter plaCe, not chasing to live tender the Turkish Government, especially that of the Pasha,' bad been removed to an island, a dependency of the lonian Islands. The latter island did not grow provisions, on an avera,4e, above three months a year. His Lordship could assure the House, that no authority had ever been given to any British Officer to preserve the Sovereignty of Parga. General Campbell had never given any authority, and he was certain that oo officer un der him ever had, that the British Government had ever in contemplation the retention of Parga with its Sovereignty. These were the general outlines of the case regarding the cession of Parga. The people appeared .perfectly con tented with their destiny; they had withdrawn from their native place without Murmuring or complaint, rather than continue ;eider a Govern ment that they disliked. The whole had been managed by General Sir Thomas Maitland, who deserved every praise on the occasion. Sir C. Moses: condemned Government for de ceiving the Parguinotes, who had always believed themeelves tinder the protection of the former. The lion. Menebeteendeavoured to prove, that the Cession was contrary to the faith of Treaties ; and that as by the Treaties . Parga' was de scribed as a dependency of the lonian Islands, it consequently came tinder the, protection of the British Government. It was impossible to go into the question that night., as there was no motion be fore them which afforded such a -scope. But lie believed lie could at any time prove that the Par guinotes 1)5(1 a claim upon our justice for protec tion against the Turks. The Noble Lord had for feited the affections of the,Greeks by giving op the mouth of Albania, whence provisions of every kind were produced. The British Army, on the commencement of a- new war, would not he able to maintain itself for want of provisions of every kind. He lamented the receipt of the calamitous Hews concerning the cession of Parga. Mr. Fazeteeeter regretted the cession of Parga as a violation of faith with the natives of that un happy cows ry.' Mr. GouLaune vindicated the conduct- of Go vernment and that of the Gallant Officer under whose direction the cession had beets carried into e ffe c t _ Sir C. MONCK said, that the papers now before the House ought to liay.e been produced sooner. Mr. GOULBUKS observed, that the. soil of the island of St. Marini (whither we understood - the Parguinotes were removed) was similar to'that of Parga, and fully equal to that which they had left. Sir C..lllnpcic maintained :hat it was very rocky and very barren, and •he believed wiiholit From a population of 5 or 6000, the people of Parzza, had been reduced to 3000 only. Lord . CASTLEREAGH thought that Gentlemen would see the iinFropriety of continuing a desul tory conversation without any specific motion. Mr. HUME, who had commanded at the island of St. Ahura, assured the House that it was nearly one - mass of stone ; and as to water, they I:ad landed there for the purpose-of obtaluitig a sup ply, but had not succee►led.. Lord ComrTori lamented the Cession of Parga, as the last remains of the independence of Greece.. His Lordship noticed that the Clive trees amount ed in number to 80,000, in value to 200,0001. He understood that the amount.of the whole was,, 500,0001. There was therefore a great difference between that and .the stint of 150,0001, said by the Noble Lord to have been received. - He was astonished how the Chancellor of the Exchequer could come down to the House and ask for an enormous sum in build new . chitrehes, while the Gover►tttient abandoned tire' frequenters of the Christian Churches of Greece, Lord CASTLEREAGH • had every reason for be lieviog that the sum of 150,0001. would not be much short of the average stipulated by the•C'om nissioners. Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH waived the considera tion of the policy of the measure, or the treat ment of the wretched sufferers ; he also waived any complaint against Sir Thomas Maitland, whom he bad known for many. years as a man of honour, and of the most unimpeachable jute- . grity. Indeed, he knew that no British Officer would, to so interesting a people as the Par,,,. guinotes, act in any other manner than became his dignified station and character.—(Rear.) — The Honourable and Learned Gentleman - then proceeded in. an able and eloquent manner to coin-. pare .the several Treaties between the 'European and Tut kish Authorities with the people of Para, and to point out that by **the law ot nations no precedent could be found: for the course which' bad been taken . respecting the Parguinotes, for a variety of reasons—first, because history furnishes no example of the cession of a'territory whicli, in consequence of that cession, beca'me deserted by all its inhabitants. There was.a material ence too between cessions between Christian and civilized States, and a cession between a Christian and an- Ottoman' Power—in, the one, exist ing con fidence in institutions may and was likely to be upheld, but, in the other the ruin of one most . follow the establishment of the other. He ridi culed the idea, and was shocked to bear froth a - British Minister, that compensation had been by. Commissioners arranged for the olives and perty of the Parguinotes ; was there to be none for the homes and sacred attachment- which the people had for their country and• liberties, for which they had spilled such a quantity .of their blood hear!)—llad that place no charms in which they had for ages 'successfully asserted and maintained their religion and independence' . against barbarism and ignorance ?—and was the endearing heart of hoMe to be bartered ac cording to the number Of olive trees ?—was this the way to tear up, as it were, by the roots a small and independent people from, the ; soil in which they bad so long flourished ? The Hon, and Learned Gentleman coMmented uptln the respective parts of the Treaties, and asserted that the: express provision of the one in 1800, was, that Mahome , anirsm should he excluded from the towns. NoW mileSs it could be proved'that the exclusion of Christianity meant •exclusion of Mahometanism, 'the Treaty. of I SOO., on which the whole right was founded, could not be sustained. So much for the hotioar of the traiiitietiiiit consigned over to barbarians the last land most interesting of the- descendants of the ancient Greeks !--70-lear Mr. BRAGGE BATHURST defended Government for the generous attentions bestowed on the people of Parga, who bad never been promised a conti nuance of our protection. The very best terms had been made for them which could be obtained; and the lion. Member considered they had no other claims on is than what characterized our compassion and indulgence. Lord JOHN RU6SELL supported the opinions of Sir James Mackintosh : by stipulation, we 'had not surrendered to the enemy one man only, but. a whole people—this violaiion of faith would ex. cite great distrust on the tuttire protection of the British Government. Mr. MaiweLL, who had been at Parga, spoke with much sympathy on the subject. The insig nificant Pasha to whom we had ceded Parga, was as much detested by the Chi , ts of the Ottoman Government as by the Parguinotes. By the ces sion of that memorable place, we have given up the only sparks.uf 'the independence of Greece— we have tip the Parguinotes to one of the greatest tyrants that ever existed. Mr. BENNgT complained at the treatment these exiles received. .He had good information on the subject. But he, begged to asq.me the House that lie would be found ever ready to raise his voice against any oppression towards those unfortunate people. After a few words from Mr. WYNN, the papers were laid on the table. PRIVILEGES OF THE HOUSE. The SPEAKER intimated that a stranger, who had been holding foilb a paper to view in the frontrOf the Gallery, and who, upon being ordered to withdraw it, had used insulting language, was taken into the custody of the Serjeant at Arms, agteeably to the. standing orders of the Hone.--- Was it the pleasure of the House that the Mes senger should be called in, and the House should then.take what course they might think proper ? Tile Messenger was called 'in, and Stated the circumstances. Mr. W. WYNN moved that the offender should be called to the Bar. Mr. BANKES thOught this unnecessary, as the power and duty of the•Serjeant had not been ex-. ercised harshly. The individual should be allowed' to remain in the custody. into which he had been properly taken. Mr. W - vtiN - said, the only ground on which he• had _moved it • was, that the individual might be' heard, if be had any thing to state in explanation or defence "--(Elear.) 'The person complained of was called in, and re presented, bis.conduct and language to have been quite different front the conduct and language im puted to him. Two other messengers were next examined as to the manner in which the accused acted towards the first mesenger. Mr. WYNN said, that the House was called upon in vindication of its own hol;our and its own pri vile4rs, to take a severer course than had (seen contemplated. He thtryfore moved, that the offender be committed to his Majesty's gaol of Newgate. Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH expressed a wish that the Stranger be again called to the b:tr, as he (Sir J. M.) understood that he had softie observations to make in extenuation of his conduct. it he were again called, he would probably'state to the House that what he had uttered was in the heat of the morneht, and that he was far from wishing to give, intentional offence. Sir C. OULU - IBC!, observed, that if there were any Gentlemen now in the gallery tw•ho could tit ny the assertions of the several witnesses as to the language acrd by the stranger, he had no doubt but that they would have the manliness to give their testimony.• Mr. FYSHE PALMER Said, that there were some 'Gentlemen in the Gallery, who he knew were present on the occasion, and 4e wished them to be examined. Mr. Thomls Boswell was then .cAlletl to the bar, and said, to the hest of his recoll , .etion the 'words nsed by the stranger were, " I (ion' care a dawn," and not " Go to h---11." He never heard these laver words, Mr. .Litnes Douglas, another witness, stated, that he was. pr.csent at the conversation, and thOught the words used by the stranger were, ". I don't c►►re, I 'till speak to the Speaker." - He never heard any thing Lite the words, " Go to h--II." Mr. - Charles ‘Vhite said,• that he heard the stranger say di4tinetiy " Go to h—...11,7,and a dd e d an oath, which had eScaned the Me*senger. 11r. lit-Ltcu remarked upon the contradictory nature or ihe testimony, and recommended that the stranger be caned to the 13ar. - , 'After some observations fr6m nr..l3;vritUaT. Mr. WYNN, Mr. HUTCHINSON, Mr, LIAttvEY, Colonel Lou)• CASTLEIWAGH ant 111% •CauKvi..the individual was called to the Bar of the House, heard in extenuation, reprimanded by the Speaker, and ordered to be disehargetl oti . the payment of his fees. ALLEGED BREACH OF PRIVILEGE. r..Wy NNE called the attention of the House ttr another breach of privilege, Which he con ceived to have been committed by a Morning Pa per called Tleg New, Times. I'he. offence of which he complained was eont'ained in a letter published yesterday in that Paper. The letter attacked the speech of an Honourable and Learned Gentle -111411 (Sir James Mackinttish) on 'the Foreign Enlistment .I.3ill,:and asked whether Sir James !rid so warmly in favour of. liherty.. ,. .in 10:8-,And . whether .he had not then, been 'wit. hog, and long afterwards, to submit to the real tyrant Buonaparte ? It then added the following paragraph :—" And yet, it I am to believe the Newspaper Reptn%s, those shameless and impudent , accusations, trout the old vindicator of Gallic fraud and tyranny, were 'received in a British House of -Cothmons with. applause ?"' He thought he had stated enough to . prove that a gross hreach of pri vilege had been committed, and moved that A. Mitchell, the Printer of The New Times, be or dered to attend at the Bar of the House to-morrow. Sir S. MACKINTOSH considered all attacks wide upo n him with the most perect indifference. As f ar a s he was concerned, he should wish his nape never to be implicated in a qnestion of pt ivilege. If the House thought it necessary 'to take any steps on the present occasion, he hoped that the mildest possible Coarse would be adopted. He Wished only to state, as a prirof of the accuracy of the writer, that in 1808; the time when he was represented to have acted as a sycopliAnt towards Bonaparte, he was employed in administeting jusss Lice in Indiao--(Hcar, hear !) Mr. CR6I;ER hOtylit it necessary to begin by taking the sense of the House, whether the letter alluded to was a breach of its privileges or not, He did not think it was, because it dtd no t r ol ac k the conduct of the Hort. and Leatned Member in Parliament ; and secondly, because the reference was not to what he had said, but to what he had, been reported to have said; so that the blame might attach solely to the report, and not to the Hon. and Learned Member's speech. Lord MILTotc conceived that if any question of breach of privilege could at all be raised, it must he only on that member of the sentence which stated, that the House had received those shame. less and impudent accusations with applause. Mr. %VYNNE conceived that a grosser breach of privilege could not have been committed, than that which charged a Member with having brought forward shameless and impudent accusations. It was the more deserving of the visitation of the House, because it did not come from the Editor in the hurry of publication, but appeared in the shape of a letter dated the I I th of June, and only inserted - the 14th, so that there had been abun. dant time for consideration. IMr. CanKER maintained his former opinion. Lord CASTLEREAGH advised that US there WAS some doubt on the subject, it would be better to afford an opportunity for . exatnining it a little more coolly. Would the Honourable Member reduce his motion into a notice for to-morrow Mr. WYNtiE bail no objection to adopt the Noble Lord's suggestion. lie thin withdrew his cont. plaint for the present, atid gave notice of it for to. morrow. BANKRUPTS' REGULATION BILL. On the motion of Mr. Jon Smrrn, this Bill went through a Committee, when several amend ments were agreed to. The Report was after : - wai d s re ceiv e d, and the Bill ordered to be re committed (up stairs.) The Frame-work Knitters' Bill was, on the motion of Mr. MANSFIELD, read a third time and passed. ADJ 0 URNNI ENT. Mr. BROGDEN gave notice, On the part 'of a No ble Friend u►t his, that he would to-morrow move that the House on its rising should adjourn till Friday. • The remaining (Mers of the Day were dis l►osed of, and the House adjourned t Half-past Two o'clock this Morning.