The Sun. — London, England, 1841-05-12 00:00:00

aitb e . if bt ,hien 1.) ,vim which . 'cued d an ,urable nagine h the,' cam' EVENING FMITION ton from our own colonies, they were to give encourage ment for the production of sugar also in slave countries, particularly when it was clearly shown that we could ob tain an adequate supply of free labour sugar from ur own colonies ? He was astonished to hear any person bearing the name of the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, contend that their efforts to abolish slavery and the slave trade, were to be confined entirely to the extinction of those evils in our own colonies. He was astonished that that Right Hon. Gentleman should state to the House and country, that their efforts to prevent slavery t other countries was quite Quixotic. The Right Hon. Gentleman had also stated, that he would . refer to what had taken place upon former debates and former divisions, and he felt that he should be able thereby to charge many who meant to vote on the pre sent occasion with great inconsistency.—(Hear, hear.) He also seemed to insinuate that there were a new born zeal on that side of the House for the extinction of sla very. He (Sir G. Clerk) did not see how he could maintain such a charge, for those who sat on that side of the House had supported emancipation since it was brought forward by Mr. Canning in 1823. If the Right Hon, Gentleman entertained, years back, the opinion he now entertains on the subject of slavery in Cuba and the Bra zils, why did he not support the motion of the Hon. Member for Wigan, when he brought it forward. He must give the Right Hon. Gentleman credit for one thing, and that was keeping strictly to that which was the proper subject for their consideration that night, viz., the proposition with respect to the Sugar Duties, which had been brought forward by her IVlEnesty's Ministers. On that subject, he felt no doubt that such had been the pro duction of sugar latterly in the colonies of this country, that we should not require it from foreign colonies. The House ought to recollect that the country was iu an artificial state Lit was burdened with a debt, the charge on which exceeded all the other expenses of the country, and its pecuniary matters were, therefore, placed on a far different footing to those of other countries. It had been admitted on all hands, that such was the fertility of the island of Cuba, that it could produce sugar of' a superior quality at a lower price than could be tained from our own colonies. If the question was one simply of price it was therefore at an end. But there were higher considera tions than those which were connected with money; and much as the people of England might be relieved by lower ing the price, he was sure they would cheerfully consent to pay the higher price, rather than abandon interests which were dear to them. With respect to the market of the Brazils, whilst the people of that country re-' quired our cotton, hardware, and other manufactures, they would continue to take them whether we continued or ceased to be the carriers of their sugar.—(Hear, hear.) 'There had been a great increase in the produce of the West Indies during the last year, and he had no doubt, that when the great experiment of free labour had been fully iried, there would be as large an amount of sugar sent to th;.7 country as there was formerly, which, on an average, was ' c zne-fourth more than was actually con sumed. As to any ,t.enefit which would be conferred by this reduction, he apprd ended that there would, in reality, be very little benefit to the consumer. As was generally the case, it would be absorbed by those per sons through whose hands the articles passed in the way of trade. It had been clearly shown that many of the calculations made in the Committee on the Import Duties were greatly exaggerated. They knew how petitions were got up, and how fre quently people appended their names to them without knowing what they contained. He thought it would be much better to discard the petitions on both sides, but the President of the Board of Trade had do right to make use of that petition as his pet argument, after knoi,, , ing that many of those who had signed it had re pu'diatcd it. To give any benefit to the consumer a much greeter reduction must take place in the amount of duty, and if 'that took place, he could readily imagine that such a reduction might lead to an increase of the revenue.—("Hear, hear," from Mr. Hume.) He himself had voted in a minority for reducing the Sugar Duties. That motion had been resisted by Lord Althorp and Mr. Poulett Thompson, on the ground that they had made other; reductions, and that they had only a surplus of 400,000/. Now we have a deficiency , and there f ore , if it was dangerous to try the experiment then, it must be still more dangerous now. Why if they wished to adopt the recommendation of the Committee of the Im port Duties, why did they not at once adopt the sugges tion of Mr. INl`Gregor, and propose a reduction of the duty on colonial sugar to 155., and on foreign sugar to 30s. ?. • An Hox. MEstnErt—Would you do it ? Sir G. CLERK would certainly not do it, and he would tell them why ; because' instead of a surplus, they now had a deficiency. Gentlemen who contended that. a reduction of duty always immediately led to such an increased consumption as to lead to an increase of re venue had furnished a test to go by—the Post-office. The same argument had been used at the time of the re duction of the duty on the postage. The principle was fully carried out. The reduction did not take place by halves. A twopenny rate had been repudiated, the low est rate had been adopted ; and what had been the con sequence ? In the quarter before the reduction of the duty on postage, the postage revenue amounted to 1,600,000/. ; in the quarter ending sth July, 1840, it a nounted to 100,000/. ; in the quarter ending 10th Oct., 1840 it amounted to 123,000/. ; in the quarter ending sth January, 1841, it amounted to 98,000/. ; and in the quarter ending sth April, 1841, it had fallen to 93,000/. In Ireland there had been a positive loss upon the postage. It had been stated that 6,000/. had been re ceived from the Post-office revenue in that country, but when the accounts came to be investigated, what turned out' to,he the fact ?—why, that in the beginning of the year the - 'Post-office in St. Martin's-le-Grand had been obliged to lend the Irish Post-office 27,000/., and that at the end of the year the Irish Post-office had paid 6 ,000/. of the debt back a g ain. Gentlemen on the oppo site side, when alluding to the deficiency in the revenue, had said that the Members on his (Sir G. Clerk's) side of the House were equally culpable with the Government, because they had supported propositions for an increase of expenditure. Let it be remembered, however, that one-half of the deficiency was to be attributed to the de ficiency in the Post-office revenue, against any alteration of which as a measure of finance the Government had received nothing but remonstrances from his side "I . the House. Another cause of the deficiency was to be attributed to the state of our relitions with China. Had Hon. Gentlemen on his side of the House approved of our policy with regard to that country ? On the contrary, they had last year, lie was sorry to say, ineffectually brought forward a motion on that subject, expressly attributing the unfortunate state of our relations with that country to the neglect of the Foreign Secretary in not furnishing our superintendent there with the necessary instructions to guide him in his intercourse with the Chinese authorities under the altered atate of affairs consequent upon their throwing open the bade. He had always supported an increase in the Na val establishments of the country, and had always con tended that they ought to be kept in an efficient state. When it had first been stated, from his side the House, t hat the navy was in an inefficient state, the charge "ad been denied, but it had since been admitted that a considerable expenditure had become necessary 'n naval stores in consequence of a previous g reat defi ciency. He thought, looking to what had taken place last autumn; that those who insisted on keeping up the naval establishment in an efficient state were entitled to the gratitude of the country. But even then, at the time we had a large fleet in the Mediterranean, our own shores had been - left unprotected. We had narrowly escaped a great peril, and he hoped that no future Board of Admiralty would so neglect their duty as to leave the :shores of our own country so wholly unprotected. The members of the Government appeared exceedingly an noyed that any one should suppose that the present mea sures had been proposed in consequence of their recent defeats. Most certainly they had not held those opinions last year, and it must have been obvious toevery one, from the first day of the meeting of Parliament, that they stood no chance whatever of carrying their Irish Qualification Bills. Under these circumstances they had recourse to the means to which they always resorted when they were .hard pushed. In 1835, having managed to quarrel with many of their supporters, in order to conciliate them, and get amain their support, th e y were con t en t t o th row overboard the Irish Church, finding that measure would not succeed. The next difficulty they found themselves in they threw out the bait of making the Ballot an open question, and by that secured the support of the Hon. Member for Sheffield ; and when subsequently they were in the last extremity of danger, when they had even so .far lost the confidence of the country as to bo obliged to tender their resignations, they threw nut the bait of the reduction of the Post-office duty. Their friends had forced that measure upon them, had told them that they .pould not give them their support unless the postage of letters was reduced, and the ,Government, regardless of „.the'injury, they were inflicting .on the• finances of the , 'count:7, gave way, and with a deficient revenue consented to the oduction required. They were now in a similar situation, and hoped to extricate themselies by resorting to similar n:eans, but, as the Secretary, at War had ac knowledged, Oiey had, in the present instance, gone too far ; the bait wonld not take, because the country knew e, they had no means' of carrying the measures they pro posed. He felt for and pitied, as sincerely as the Hon, .. Member for Sheffield cold do, but he doubted if even among the suffering inhab:tants of that town many could be found in favour of the proposition of the Government. Mr. WARD had presented a petition. Sir GEORGE CLERK—The lion. Gentleman was too old a member of that House not to know how easily petitions of every sort could be got up.---(Loud ironical Cheers from the Ministerial benches.) Tie objected to the proposition of the Chancellor of the Exchequer— : First, because it went to encourage slavery and the slave trade ; second, because the supply of sugar to be expected from our own colonies would be fully equal to the de mand ; third, because as a financial measure it must fail ; .und fourth, because the reduction proposed was so paltry in itself that it could not by any possibility benefit the consumers. For these reasons he should support the re solution of his Noble Friend. Mr. WARD said that the Honourable Gentleman who had just addressed the House had accused them of at tempting to widen the question, and he had also given them a dissertation on free trade, of which he had pro fessed himself an ardent admirer, at the same time stat ing that the friction or disturbing causes must be looked to. What he meant by that he (Mr. Ward) was ut a loss to know. • The Right Hon. Gentleman . then talked of all the subjects that had come before the eouse for the last ten years ; he had talk e d o f th e Post office;:., the Report of the Import Duties Committee, in short iabout everything but the real question before the Rouse. \ He had talked about the 8 00,000/. lost by the Post -office, but had completely forgotten to say one word of the 800,0001. that had been lost by giving corn ,rensation to the West India planters.—(Hear, hear.) the Right Hon, Gentleman had then stated that the present was not a commercial or financial question, but it Was one that involved a great principle. lie was sorry that ir his Ri g ht H on . F r iend the Member for th e T ow e r hamlets h a d f a ll en so eas ily into the trap that h a d b een , 41 41 by the Hon. Member for Liverpool—(Hear, hear) — for by doing so, .he had sacrificed almost all the great principles for which he had fought during a long poll- Tit J., !THE SUN, LONDON. WEDNESDAY, MAY 12, 1841. tical life. It was said that humanity was dangerous when not kept within due bounds, and that observation might be justly applied to his Right Hon. Friends. It was said the object of the Govern ment was to let in the produce of Cuba and Brazil, thereby letting in a slave-labour produce. He denied that Government had . any such object in view ; their ob ject was to give a protecting duty of 50 per cent. to free labour sugar, over that produced- by slavery. Now, he begged to state to the House that he was not prepared to go the full length of his Hon. Friend, the Member for the City of London. He was not prepared to do away with all restriction on sugar, but he desired to see the expedient of 1834 succeed ; at the same time he begged distinctly to state, that he could not consent to keep up high prices to the West Indies by monopoly. He was confident that the change which was proposed by her Majesty's Government was consistent with true princi ples, and true faith.—(Hear, hear.) Why, he would ask, should the negro population eat figs and drink cham pagne, as they had been told by Mr. Gurney they did, through the means of taxing the people of this country ? —(Hear, hear.) They had been called upon by the Hon. Member for Liverpool, to allow their moral feel ings to predominate above all others on this question. He was not prepared to adopt any such course ; nay, the thing had been carried further—they had been ap plied to, not only in the name of religion, but for the sake of humanity. In his opinion humanity began at home. Was there, he would ask, a single manufacturer in the country, if brought before a Committee of that House, who would not tell them of the distress that existed in the manufacturing; districts Such was the state of those districts, that the labourers there had no hope but either going to the parish, or such a change as that which was proposed by her Majesty's Ministers. The distress of the manufacturing districts was an element which that House could not overlook. It demanded its prompt at tention, and it would have it. How different , as he had stated before, was the black population in the colonies ? There could be no doubt that it was most desirable that comfort should be attained as the result of labour. But the comforts of the black population had been produced, he might say, in an unnatural way, for they were the re sult of direct taxation on the Tabour of this country. All the large towns such as Sheffield, Leeds, and other places, had their eyes open and were fully alive to' the declarations of principle made by either of the great parties in that House. On the one hand they had one of the most statesman-like and far-seeing declarations that he had ever heard, on the other side nothing but indi vidual declarations of the utmost hostility to all free trade. The experiment of the Chancellor of the Exche quer of last year afforded an abundant proof that unless they changed their system, the crisis in their finances was but beginning—they had broken the spring of their prosperity by pressing too heavily upon the great body of the people. He had only one fault to find with the proposition of the Government—it was too much in fa vour of the landlord.--(Load cheers.) He spoke as a small proprietor, but all his prospects in life depended upon land, yet he thought the proposition of the Go vernment was one that would prove highly advantageous to the country.—(Hear, hear.) An argument had been raised in another place that he was obliged to charac terise as in fact foolish ; it was said " for God's sake don't tax the bread of the people."—(Laughter.) That was the day on which the Government intimated their intention to put a duty of Bs. per quarter on wheat, while at the very moment the duty was 24s.—(Cheers.) That was treating the gullibility of the people in a way that they did not deserve, and he would give his warmest support to the whole proposition of the Government, thinking it a step in the right direction. Whatever might be the fate of the question in that House, it was one of great importance thrown before the people, and their good sense would induce them to take it up in such a manner as must make it successful. Sir R INGLIS had been anxious to address the louse, because no one on his side of the House had taken the ground upon which he intended to oppose the propo sition of the Government. He looked upon the question as one connected with slavery and the slave question, and not one of party at all. The question was not whether they would adopt the Budget, or reduce the duties on corn or timber, but whether they would place the slave-owner in a better position than that which he new occupied. He complained of the attack that had been made upon the Bight Hon. Gentleman the Member for the Tower Hamlets from the other side of the House. No one could appreciate more highly than him self the sacrifices which, during a period of 30 years, his consistent advocacy of the emancipation of the slaves had entailed upon the Right Hon. Gentleman. He thought his last appeal on behalf of these oppressed and persecuted individuals did him more honour than all his previous efforts. Although he might not have so high an opinion of human nature as others, yet he did not think so ill of it as to suppose that with the miseries of the slave-trade before them, they would place in a worse position the inhabitants of the great continent of Africa, and in a better position those atrocious slave-trading countries, who would necessarily benefit so much from the adoption of these measures. It was not more than three years since that House had unanimously agreed to address her Majesty, praying her to put an end to the foreign slave trade ; but he asked the Noble Lord, the Secretary for the Colonies, how he could come forward and call upon the slave-trading countries to put down the iniquitous system, while they themselves brought for ward measures, the direct object of which was topromote and encourage slave-labour ? Those who had taken the same views of the policy of her Majesty's Government as himself had been taunted with hypocrisy, but he would not retaliate upon the opposite party in the same strain. For his own part, .he could conscientiously say that he should have felt it his duty to vote against such measures, from whatever party in the State they might come. Al what time had thg pro position come from the Government ? At the very mo ment when they had fitted out an expedition, with the laudable object of putting an end to the slave-trade • but, exactly in the same proportion as they had exerted themselves to send out that expedition, in the same pro portion were they stultifying themselves on the present occasion. He would remind the House of the admission of the Hon. Member for Cumberland, one of the most strenuous supporters of her Majesty's Government, that he thought the measure was calculated to give some en couragement to the slave trade. From all these consi derations he was induced to withhold his assent to the present proposition of the Government. One word with regard to the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary at W., whose name had been alluded to in the course of the debate of last night.. No man who took any inter est in the question of the slave trade, could fail to acknowledge their deep obligations to the late Mr. Macaulay, and he, for one, was not unmindful of, or un grateful to that individual for his exertions on behalf of the oppressed African. He should give his vote in favour of the resolution of the Noble Lord the Member for Liverpool. Mr. C. WOOD expressed his satisfaction that, at last, some Hon. Member on the other side of the House had broken through the narrow bounds to which the Noble Lord who had moved the amendment had endeavoured to limit the debate. He doubted, however, whether the omission of the words alluded to by the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for the University of Oxford would have so well served the interests of party as the reso lution in the shape in which it had been submitted to the House by the Noble Lord the Member for Liverpool.— (Hear, hear.) The question to be determined, in Isis opinion, was, upon what principles their commercial policy was to be conducted ; and whether, without the imposition of new taxes, they were to make their income equal to their expenditure.—(Hear, hear.) That was the question his Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer had submitted to the House, and they were about to go into a Committee of Ways and Means to discuss the question, when the Noble Lord interposed with the present motion. His Noble Friend the Secre tary for the Colonies, and his Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, had distinctly stated that their objects were, not to add to the burdens of the people, but to take off some of the pressure that already existed. It mattered little to the people of that country —it mattered little to the manufacturing population, who legitimately looked for relief, under the present distress, to the financial measures of the Government—it mat tered little to them whether each measure was thrown out by itself, or the question disposed of as a whole. He had heard from the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth, and the Hon. Member for Beverley, a state ment of their attachment to free trade. The Hon. Member for Beverley had expressed his anxiety for all articles entering into the consumption of the poor man, but lie was not a little surprised to find that his practical conclusions resulted in a deter mination to oppose a reduction of the duty on sugar. — (Hear, hear, hear.) He wished to know how far those principles would carry the Hon. Member and the Hon. Member for Kilmarnock, in support of the proposition of the Hon. Member for Whitby, with regard to the duties on timber. He would be curious also to see whether they would be ungrateful to the Hon. Mem ber for Lincolnshire, who had no objection to a reduction of the duties on sugar, but who would resist the proposition for consistency sake, in order that the monopoly in corn might be supported.—(Hear, hear.) He regretted to find that with but few exceptions little reference had been made to the wretched state of the population of that country. The Hon. Member for Stamford (Sir G. Clerk) had expressed great indignation at any one on that (the Ministerial) side of the House being astonished at the sympathy for the slaves that was manifested by Hon. Gentlemen on the other side. He (Mr. C. Wood) should be sorry to suppose that Gentlemen on the other side of the House did not conscientiously entertain the opinions on that subject which they now expressed. But the Hon. Member for Stamford must suppose hat they possessed but a very short recollection st he thought they did not recollect the course pursued on this subject by a large portion of the party to which the Hon. Gentleman belonged. Although he (Mr. C. Wood) did not wish to claim for that - side of the House all that had been done to put an end t slavery and the slave-trade, he would remind the Hon. Gentleman that the exertions of Mr. Wilberforce and Mr. Pitt were of little avail, com pared with those of the Whig Administration of 1806, and the resolutions moved by Mr. Canning in 1824 re mained but so much waste payer ; the real death-blow was given to slavery by the Bill on that subject passed during Lord Grey's Administration. The Hon. Gentle man seemed to take most extraordinary views of the probable effects of the proposed measure. He drew a highly-coloured picture of slavery, and attributed to this measure all the horrors of the last forty years. Why, if the question was to bo made a matter of principle, and not a matter of degree—and of an infinitely small de gree—he (Mr. C. Wood) would be disposed to yield. (Hear.) If the arguments used on the other side of the House were of any weight, he would ask why did they put down the growth of tobacco in Ireland some few years back ? That tobacco might have put down slave-grown tobacco. There were reasons of Menne ' 110 doubt, for the prohibition, and the same was the ease with Fpglio to slave-grown coffee. By their legislation they gave iiii3 lt4g9ti to the slave-grown coffee of Brazil over the free, grown coffee of Hayti. The case of the slave-grown sugar imported into this country from 13ralsil fur rushed a still more forcible-- argument. That sugar was importedfor the purpose of being sefined, and it was refused to be introduced for consumption. He would wish to know where was the distinction. In either case the slave-grown sugar was purchased. The Right Hon. Gentleman the President of the Board of Trade said with truth, to whatever extent you export manufactured goods to Brazil 'you are to the same extent paid with slave ; grown sugar. Yet, in those cases just instanced, no feelings on the part of humanity were shocked. With respect to the present condition of the working classes he would trouble the House with a fewextracts fronidocuments which had come into his hands. One gentleman stated that among the working classes no man could support himself at the present moment, and that confidence was altogether gone. In South Lancashire the labourer was employed only four days in the week. The Report of the Assistant Commissioners appointed to inquire into the state of the hand-loom weavers, stated that with al most all of them (the weavers) low wages produced im mediate distress, and want of employment produced im mediate destitution. "We do not believe (said the Com missioners) that any one who has not mixed with the working classes—we do not believe that we ourselves can stequately estimate how much mental and bodily suffering—how much disappointment and disease are implied in the terms fall of wages.' " What, he (Mr. C.. Wood) would ask, must be now the state of those poor people when there was little or no employment ? To what measures but such as would improve the trade of the country was that House to look for a remedy of that state of things ? He was asto nished last night to hear an Hon. Gentleman on the other side of the. House running down the foreign trade of this country.. It was knoivn that for the last six years in the' manufacturing districts wages were gra dually sinking, whilst the price of corn was gradually rising. He had thero a statement of the wages in Halifax and Bradford for the last seven years, accompanied with the price of corn, which he would read to the House. The price of corn rose from 465. 2d. to 68s. 9d., in the year 1834, in the space of a fortnight' and the wages in that time of the first class of workmen fell from 10s. to 6s. 9d. ' of the second class from 14s. to 10s., an d o f t h e third from 18s. to 13s. 6d. When bread was cheap men clothed themselves. He (Mr. Wood) heard from another gentleman that the popu lation in other towns were now only half fed, and for that reason they were unable to purchase clothes, or most of those articles which were the actual necessaries of life. Now if trade was bad at home to what could they attribute it but to the state of our foreign trade, and the absence of foreign demand? And what was the cause of that absence of foreign demand? It was the small amount of our exports to Brazil and other foreign countries. He (Mr. Wood) thought the time was gone by when it would be said that we would send out goods to other countries' without being prepared to take something in exchange for them.—(Hear, hear.) This small amount of 'our exports to those countries was accounted for by the fiscal regulations of our per nicious commercial code, which were such as to prevent our taking goods in return. There was most clear evi dence given before the Import Duties Committee, to prove that the want of comfort, and in some instances of almost the necessaries of life, experienced by the poorer classes, was owing to the high price of corn. That was not confined to the manufacturing artizan only, but ex tended to the agricultural labourer also. There was clear evidence given by a manufacturer of Leicester, that at the time when the price of corn was high, the agricul tural labourer could not afford to purchase necessary clothino•—the cheap wool and hosiery, which was one of the staple articles of manufacture in Leicester. That gentleman stated, as a matter 'of fact, that the commer cial travellers from Leicester, who went through the country for the purpose of selling those articles of cloth ing, laid it down as a maxim, that the demand for those articles in the agricultural districts was slack in proportion to the high price of corn. If it were true that the corn duties were a grievance to the whole population, if the restrictions on trade were a grievance to the artizan,—he asked if they could look at the depressed state of all classes, and yet refuse to go into a CoMmittee to consider what means should be adopted for their relief ?—(Hear, hear.) He was ready to admit that some protected interests might suffer. He would admit further that some of the landlords' rents might be reduced ; and, in calling upon others to forego their protection, he was also ready himself to forego that he had enjoyed.—(Loud cheers.) He might not value it so much as others ; but, whatever it might be, he con sidered that his interests were more bound up in the ge neral interests of the country than in any individual advantage he might derive from such protection.— (Hear, hear.) One most essential feature of this pro position was, that it was not merely a measure for the relief of trade, but a great financial measure, for the purpose of raising a revenue.—(Hear, hear.) He was at a loss to understand the objections that had been made made to it on the score of time, on any other principle than that they had originated in party feelings. The Hon. Member for Kilmarnock (Mr. Col q proposed uhou n ) had was t o disclaimedremove office.—(Hear, hear.) That might be a reason for the t t h h e e m' present y et the G o o v n e l r y n r m e e m n e t d from l ° vote he intended to give, but the Honourable Mem ber would hardly convince the world that his mind was; free from the influence of party considerations. Anything more inconsistent than the arguments em ployed against this measure, he (Mr. Wood) never heard. The Honourable Member for Beverley said the country would be inundated with Brazilian sugar, yet he said that the Chancellor of the Exchequer would derive no revenue from the measure. On which of these two propositions did the Hon. Gentleman mean to stand ? It seemed to him (Mr. Wood) a matter of no great difficulty to show that the expectations of his Right Hon. Friend were not quite so unreasonable as gentleman on the other side seemed to suppose. If there were a decrease in price there would be an increase in consumption, and if there were an increase in con sumption it followed that there would be an increase of revenue. Hon. Gentlemen opposite disputed the point, that lowering the price produced increased consumption. But if they took a paper on the table of the House and looked at the quantity entered for home consumption, and at the column which contained the price, they would see no instance in which there was a remarkable increase or decrease of consumption that was not accompanied by a corresponding increase or decrease of price. —(Hear, hear.) If this was so, he did not think the Chancellor of the Exchequer could be accused of having taken an undue estimate of the probable increase of revenue, when he fixed it at so low a sum as 700,0001. If the Right Gen tleman (Mr. Goulburn) allowed this calculation to be cor rect, he should like to know on what grounds he had stated the estimate to be utterly groundless.— (Hear, hear.) But there was another question of gre..t importance for the consideration of the House, namely, what was the proprosition which would be sub mitted to the House, if that of the Chancellor of the Exchequer were defeated. He was sure that those who were called upon to reject this proposition, ought to have some intimation of what was to be the alternative. —(Hear, hear.) He dared say the Hon. Member for Whitby (Mr. A. Chapman) had been curious enough to know what was the opinion of those around him on the subject of the timber duties. Were they to look to an increase of the duty on timber, or was their only object to remove the Government in such a manner as to leave their successors at liberty to introduce the same measure ? In either hands he feared the fate of the Hon. Member for Whitby would be the same. He did not deny that he thought they ()tight to know how the revenue for the year was to be made good. He had heard of some who were only anxious for a quiet life, and who , thought that nothing was so easy as to meet this, like former difficulties, by a loan ; but he must say that the only fault he had to find with the financial policy of the present Government was that they had carried this system too far. He thought Lord Althorp's proposition for taking off the taxes was a wise measure. He took off seven millions, yet the actual loss of income was only two millions. The next course adopted to meet the difficulties was a tem porary loan ; but last year the Chancellor of the Exche quer stated that it was impossible to pursue so discre ditable and ruinous a system further, and came forward with a proporition for increasing the taxation, in order to make it equal to the expenditure of the country. This was, perhaps, only alporary expedient, but it could not be denied that it had entirely failed, and that we were, of ne cessity, reduced to adopt some other measure. If, then, they would not take off direct taxation, the only other mode was that which had been repudiated, not only by the present Chancellor of the Exchequer, but even still more strongly by the Right Hon. Baronet, the Member for Tamworth. . If, then, the House was not prepared to adopt, the Government proposition, he asked what was the alternative to which they were reduced ? To pro pose the imposition of direct taxes was doubtless . a straightforward and honest proposition ; but, in the pre sent state of the country, would it be right to add to its burdens before they tried the expedient of relieving them ? Were they, then, to re-impose such taxes as that on salt and candles, or a house tax ; or would they fall back in time of peace to that which had been always held as a last resource, a property tax ? He could not agree with those who wished for a tax of that kind, believing it one which it was most unwise and inexpedient to impose in time of peace. But if they imposed that tax they would not relieve trade, and if not he wished to know to what source they were to look for improving the revenue ? The only resource was so to improve trade as to add to the revenue of the Customs and Excise. If Gentlemen would not do that they would reject the only mode of relieving trade from a depression not temporary but arising from the compe tition of manufactures on the Continent, and which there was no other mode of putting down but by relieving our trade from the fetters which encumbered it.—(Cheers.) They would reject the only mode of relieving those who were willing to contribute to the revenue of the country, and would prevent the population ftom contributing, as they were willing to do, to its indirect taxation. Those considerations regarding the interests, the feel ings, the welfare, and the future prosperity of the coun try weighed with him so heavily, that he was not without a hope that the House would take into consideration the proposal of his Noble Friend. But however that night be, he was perfectly convinced that the state of the coun try was such that measures like those could lilt much longer be deferred.—(Ministerial cheers.) They might be introduced by others—they might undergo some modi fication, but 4s the deeper ruin and distress of the nation would make their consideration mem imperative, he was thoroughly . persuaded that sooner or later, and at no very distant period, Honourable Gentlemen who had come forward as the strenuous advocates of monopoly in that House, would find their expectations disappointed, and that for the general benefit those protecting duties must bescliminishe(l, gad that; Oto iiitqa§t Ai ttt m P1411143i 4not be preferred to'the interests of a class,-----(Hear, Mr. GOULBURN said that when he reflected that the period at which he was called on to address the House against a proposal for reducing the duty on foreign sugar Was that precise period which, by the Act of Emancipation of the Negrocain the West Indies, was niaTked out fr the first year in which the ship popula fmi. o f - t l ie4o g lit 9 ni.e4 511.91114 ficalet fveccloin ;. and w h en h e 1 ; 0 -fin e t oc i, also, chat that pel,ind had t t eeu antici pated by three years by the voluntary act of those cola mists ilumselves—whert he reflected on that circumstance, he could not but consider what would have been the feeling of that iton , , se,..and of the country, . if, when his Honourable 'Friend near him had first proposed to the , House the Act of Emanci pation, he had accempanied it by a proposition to the effect, that as soon as the apprenticeship should cease, slave-grown sugar should be Admitted without restriction into the markts of this cottntry.—(Hear, hear.) 'He be l 'eved that if any mair, whatever might have been his political opinions, had stated ~that such a proceeding would have been adopted in 1841, the assertion would have been scouted and 'denounced as an imaginary ap prehension. He would have :been told, that if Great Britain, which was doing an act of justice to the negroes, immediately on the accomplishment of that act were to turn round and deprive the West Indies of the protee tion which they had enjoyed in our markets, she.would enter on a proceeding which no, Government could . re commend, and which no House of Comiiions could sanction. And although, with respect to the first part of that proposition, they had been undeceived by the pro- Foposals of the Government, he believed that with regard to the second part of the proposition their confidence would still be unshaken, and that the House of Commons would not approve of the measure which the Ministry submitted for their consideration.—Hear, hear.) In that view of the question it mattered not whether the measure was brought forward as a financial one or as a part of the budget ; for when he remembered the cir cumstances under which the Emancipation Act was passed, the House could not, in his opinion, adopt such a proposal. The measure had been brought forward as one of financial policy, and the justification offered for it was the extreme necessity of the country. He (Mr. Goulbourn) did not then, any more than on a former occasion, deny that w e h a d ar r i ve d a t a cr i s i s i n t h e financial affairs of thecountry which demanded the im mediate application of.,.a_ reniedy.—(Hear, hear.) He did not, and he c ou ld n o t; deny that ; but, while he ad mitted it, he was bound to say . also that those who were responsible for the crisis were bound to prepare an ade quate remedy.—(Cheers and counter cheers.) It was not sufficient for the Right Hon. 'Gentleman, the Chan cellor of the Exchequer, or the Noble Lord at the head of the Government, to Come forward and say that they proposed a measure for the reduction of the duty on sugar, which would give them 700,000/. a year, while they were absolutely silent as to the mode in which the revenue could possibly be so greatly increased. For his part he thought that the explanation given on the subject by the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies was altogether inefficient. Hon. Members on his (Mr. Goulburn's) side of the House had been taunted by diction. Member for Halifax because they adopted two inconsistent - modes of argument. The truth was, however, that they were driven into opposite courses by the contradictory statements of Ministers, and the fault was not in the reply to the propositions but in the propositions themselves. But he should like to know in what mode the Right Hon. Gentleman proposed to arise those 700,000/. from an alteration in the duties on sugar. The Right Hon. Goirtaman required no more from the contemplated alteration than was raised under the present system in the year 1828, when the duty on sugar realized 5,000,0001., whilst the Right Hon. Gentleman anticipated only 4,400,000/. under the new duty. He was consequently persuaded that they might raise the revenue to the required amount, without the nostrum proposed by the Government: The only effect of the contemplated measure wouldbe:an alteration, probably, in the revenue ; but at the same time they would substi tute a certain quantity of Brazil or Cuba sugar for that of our West India colonies, and would thus give a com mensurate incitement to that slave-trade which they had been so desirofis to remove ?—(Hear, hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Halifax had made it a great ground of complaint against Members on his (Mr. G.'s) side, that they did not enter upon the general question of commercial policy. But he (Mr. G.) did not think that they would be justified in entering upon the discussion of any other question than that of the sugar duties, which had been sub m itt e d t o the consi deration of th e House by her Majesty's Government.— (Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentl eman accuse d th ose on the Opposition side of being opposed to all reduction. But he would tell the Hon. Gentleman that they by no means resisted reduction, when it was consistent with financial and commercial policy.—(Hear, hear.) The price of sugar was already, below that to which the mea sure of the Government would reduce it.—(Hear, hear.) At the same time, if they looked to the last fifteen years, and took the periods in which the consumption of sugar was the greatest, the price would be found to be above the price upon which the Noble Lord had calculated as that which would increase the consumption to the large benefit of the revenue, which Ministers were pleased to anticipate.—(Hear, and a laugh.) It was his own firm belief that the consumption of' sugar would not be increased by any legislative enact ment beyond the present amount, and it was on that ground lie was of opinion that the rate of duty ought to be left as it was. It had been asserted that they (the Opposition had no sympathy with the feelings of the poorer classes of their countrymen, and great pains had been taken to contrast the unfortunate condition, and the privations of the industrious classes in this country, with the happy state of the slaves in the Brazils. But, without regretting the happiness of the slaves, or wanting a proper sense of the sufferings which his own countrymen had sometimes to endure, he • must say that he did not think that the re duction contemplated in the duty upon slave-grown sugar would tend greatly to improve the condition of the la bouring classes of Great Britain.—(Hear, hear.) It had also been stated that he, and those with whom he acted, were indifferent to the importance of our foreign trade. Now, for himself, he must say that he had, for the greater part of his political life, served with Mr. Ibis kisson, and supported him in Parliament—(Hear)—and although lie had in the latter part of their connexion the misfortune to dissent from that lamented friend on some points, yet he had been so long known as a supporter of his policy, that it could not reasonably be supposed he was indifferent to the prosperity of our trade in any branch. He was quite alive to the value, both' of our colonial and foreign commerce, and the only distinction which he would make in favour of either would be grounded on this question alone ; which of them em ployed the greater number. of our own population ? (Hear, hear.) Much stress had been laid upon the dis satisfaction with England which prevailed in Brazil, and the importance of conciliating that country, before the commercial treaty expired.—(Hear, hear, hear.) But lie did not ascribe the dissatisfaction to the same cause. He believed it arose only from our efforts to put down the slave trade.— (Cheers from the Opposition) —and whether we conciliated the friendship of the Brazilians, by relaxing in those efforts, or by the measure now before the House, the effect would 1.);..‘ the same, to cover this country with odium and contempt.—(Cheers and cries of " Oh, oh !") The No ble Member for Halifax said that, as we already took the cotton and tobacco of the Brazils, why should we refuse to take their sugar ?—(Hear.) But he should remind the Hon. Gentleman that this was a question whether we should open our markets to a slave-labour product against which they were_elosed before.—(Hear, hear.) it they first abandoned the sugar duty, and then went to Brazil for the purpose of obtaining additional powers from that nation for the suppression of the slave trade, they would be going with their hands tied, and without the means of inducing Brazil to consent to any such mea sure. lie would, therefore, recommend the Right Hon. Gentleman to follow the example which his Noble Friend had set in his negotiations with Texas, and to which allusion had been made during the de bate last evening, and to pause before he made reductions which must be injurious to our own colonies, until he was certain that by so doing he could be securing the paramount interests of justice and humanity.— (Hear, hear.) The President of the Board of Trade had given a brilliant, but at the same time a just description of the great natural advantages possessed by the Brazils, with a view to commercial objects. But, while he had been thus enlarging on the peculiar advantages possessed by that foreign country, he had forgotten to advert to the-superior advantages enjoyed by a possession which was no foreign country, the population of which was not like the population of Brazil, confined to six millions of inhabitants, one of which was a slave population, and therefore unable to consume our manufactures so exten sively—but a country which was inhabited by a free people in the highest state of civilization, with rivers extending through a tast and densely-populated country, anti which was fully eilitaltaThe Brazils in the possession of the means of making - a- return for our manufactures. He saw the Noble Lord the Member for Totnes whis pering to the Right lion. Gentleman, and no doubt ht , , was confidentially communicating to him, although at rather a late period certainly, the information . . whi c h had been communicated to th e Import Committee, as to the capacity of India to become_amost extensive cus tomer for our manufactures- . —(Cheers)—and that all she required was the power of making returns for our efforts, and that the only return she could make was in sugar.— (Loud cheers.) He would therefore ask the Right Hon. Gentleman to have some corresponding feeling for India. —(Cheers.) He was aware that many persons had em barked a large amount of capital in India ; by adopting this course they would check the rising prosperity of India. If they - WOW to the rising prosperity of India —t o the sources which India possessed for making us returns for our manufactures —he believed that no better customer for England could be found than India—(Hear, hear)—and that India would take, not like Brazil, our coarser articles only, but that she would take, also, our more elaborate manufac tures. When the Hon. Gentleman expressed his fears that, by giving an increased stimulus to the diversion of capital into India, did he forget that, by the measure proposed, he would create a diversion of capital into Brazil which would be employed in the production of an article which must necessarily give encouragement to slavery and the slave trade, that British capital would be made accessory to the forwarding of that traffic which Parliament had so recently denounced ? Ile would refer to the documents which had been last year laid on the table by the Noble Lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, to prove this assertion. It would thus be found that the Commissioners had reported that British capital had been employed in the Brazils in forwarding the and that it had been proved that slave trade, and in cultivating laud by - slave labour. —(Cheers.) Surely the Noble Loixi would acknowledge B n r e iris i i; capital was diverted into p es er a k le d ne by est in at e e a s n s s ver e e f the truth of the fact, not in one, two, or three insta i n in c pas Able stimulus to the introduc tion i tlnd that was (l i Y in e(l oti l i l e i r vi a ° rg la i t i- - etßiulrelittißivsarahtezeiliipsibtfyaolr.niebTgerhness purpose of being e aipl t i i n:t o h t e c la a s p v i s ta o l of the In The Right Hon. Member for Edinburgh had said that the G m e e n lt t t le fci ni r a g n lY tl l l7 "°l7 we had - pekormed our duty question of the encouragement of slavery ought Reit to divert them from their purpose on the proatusi ooeaslon ; (4 , 1 v 4en we liar taken upon ourselves to ter minate shivery ni our own territories, and to put a stop to the slave trade, and that it was no portion of niw al that we were bound to do. He was etnhnaatttubiac.ealcso:iirbultyingtotoprheilsvvni:•::: slave trade in foreign coun tries, lint that when w o put a stop to slavery ourselves we had done anxious to protest against such a' doctrine.-L-:(116.6%) It had been the fashion to saythat - thirAVAtrGb 4 rernment was the only Government which had proposed and exe cuted measures for the extinction of this traffic. True, they had proposed and executed the two great measures for the abolition of the slave trade and for the abolition of slavery, and he was free to admit that the proposing and carrying of these two great measures did them the highest honour (Loud cheers) and he had given his humble support to both those measures. He could not forget w h en th ese c l a ims w e re ma d e on be - half of the Whig Government the part, which had been talte-nhy a Government . to which he had belonged. He could not forget that at the treaty Of yieima the British negotiator, acting under orders from a Conseivative Go vernment, brought all the Powers of Europe to a unani mous. declaration that they would exert their _utmost powers for the suppression of the slave trade.—(Loud cheering.) Though he would not attempt to dis parage the acts to which he had before alluded, yet he could not but think that the period would arrive when the world would bless the country which authorised, and _Minister who proposed, a declaration so honourable to humanity—(cheers) —and he could never admit that we had fulfilled the obligation which the treaty had imposed on us by our Emancipation Act. No sooner had the Negro Emancipation been carried than the Hon ourable Baronet, the - Member for Oxford, called upon the House to address the Crown, beseeching the Crown to use every effort in its power to induce foreign Powers to con sent to the abolition of the slave-trade. The' Noble Lord had cordially united with them on that occasion as to the necessity of pursuing measures to give effect to the treaty of Vienna. The Noble Lord had on this occasion not only given an account of the steps which he had taken to attain that object, but he also stated the difficulties which he had encountered. In 1839 an address from the other House of Parliament had confirmed those views, and again the Government had been called on to leave no means untried for the suppression of that traffic which was represented as being more especially carried on by Cuba and the Brasils from which it was now proposed that sugar should be admitted. (Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord had on that occasion explained that he had received fro .n all those Powers expressions of their willingness to sup press the traffic, but that they used no efforts for that purpose ; and when the Noble Lord should be next called upon to urge upon those Powers the necessity of taking more active measures for the suppression of the slave-trade, he did not think that they would be inclined to agree to his proposition, when they found, by his own acts and speeches, he was encouraging that very product, the cultivation of which gave the greatest stimulus to the traffic. He was opposed to the present measure, because he considered it useless as a measure of finance, which could produce no revenue, except at the expense of our colonies, to which it must prove deeply injurious,and because it would give-a direct encouragement to slave labour, which he felt bound by every motive of humanity, and every feeling of justice to our own colonies, to discourage. For these reasons, he should support the resolution of his Noble Friend. Sir G. GREY said that, on the third night of this de bate, he was happy to have it in his power to impress upon the House an important disclosure which had been made by the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, in the speech just made to the Hous e . It wou ld b e i n the recol lection of the House that on the night when his Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer announced his scheme, the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite concurred in the opinion that decisive measures must be taken in order to make up the deficiency. They cautiously re served, as they had a perfect right to do, their opinion on the subject until this scheme had been brought before them. Hon. Gentlemen on that side had, in three nights' debate, been anxiously expecting to hear what were the opinions of the Right Hon. Gentleman, not only on the whole financial statement of his Right Hon. Friend, but without entering into minute details, by what means he would propose to supply the deficiency ; and what was the answer of the Hon. Gentleman in answer to the re peated questions proposed to him ?--(Hear.) Why, he said he would just leave things alone.—(Cheers from both sides of the House.) Such was the satisfactory announce ment made to the House by the Right Hon. Gentleman. The attention of the country had been fixed on the sub ject of the Import Duties for the last six months, ever since that much traduced, but valuable Report had appeared, which united the whole country irrespectively of political opinions. —(Tory cheers.) He (Sir G. Grey) thought the country would hear with anything but satisfaction that it was the intention of the Govern ment, who intended to succeed that now in existence to leave the deficiency in the revenue altogether untouched.--(Cheers from both sides of the House.) He was sorry that in the speeches of the Right Hon. Gen- tlemen opposite, there had been no distinct enunciation of the principle on which their opposition was founded. The Hon. Member for Newark stated to the House at the commencement of his address, that he did not come there to discuss principles.—(Hear, hear.) He (Sir G. Grey) would have thought, that on a question of that kind, he at least would have been anxious to propound some principle by which the con science of the State might be guided.—(Hear, hear.) But the Hon. Member distinctly stated that it was not a question of principle.—(" No, no," from the Tory benches, and cheers from the Ministerial benches.) He rested his opposition entirely upon the promise of a greater supply from the West Indies during the coming year than had been received for several years past. In another part of his speech the Hon. Gentleman concur red with his Hon. Friend, the Member for the Tower Hamlets, and had adopted all that horror of sla very which had exposed his Hon. Friend to the shafts of malevolence from the-West India body. It turned out, however, that the principle was to be maintained only when sugar was at 57s.—(Hear, hear, ,hear.) On that side of the House he had no such complaint to make. The objections to the measure had been , stated clearly and distinctly, and Hon. Gentlemen opposite had cheered their speeches. To what principle were, those cheers applied ? The Hon. Member for Lincoln had said, treating this a whole, that if he admitted the prin ciple contained in these measures, they would touch the capital, and down would come the Corn-laws. , That having resisted it in one case, he would be in a better p Isition to resist it in the other.—(hear.) Were lion. Gentlemen opposite prepared to adopt that argunio,nt ? —(Hear, hear.) Would there be the same eagerness to protect the West Indies, if they did not believe that this was an outwork which must be defended in order to maintain their position with respect to the existing t Corn laws ?—(Cheers.) The Hon. Member fir the Tower Hamlets would not consent under any circumstances to admit slave-made sugar into this country. Dld the Noble Lord or the Right. lion. Gentleman opposite adopt that principle ?—{Hear, hear.). It would be satis factory to the country to know from the Right Hon... Gentleman who had addressed the House, put fOrwar d as he was as the agent of the Right Hon. Gentleman an d of that great party w ith which he was connecter{ that however extravagant the price of sugar mighA be, his determination was to make no alteration,; "and that the consumer should in no case have the benr.fit of competi tion.—(Hear, hear.) He must say that th e ex t re m e hor ror which hadextreme been expressed with regard to slavery, coming, as it did, with a good grace - from hi, Hon. Friend, came with a very ill grace or, any of those who joined in it. The petition presented a few nights ago by the Hon. Baronet opposite i:aplored the House. not to incur the guilt of slavery --Jutting that forward ast a plea which was to excite the warm and generous feelings of the people of England—f ee li ngs w hi c h h a d been evinced in that profuse gift which had been so liberally showered upon themselves. They knew that they could not main tain their position without enlisting those feelingsothere fore they professed a great horror of slayery.— (Hear, hear.) He would ask his Noble Friend opposite was it against sugar only that he intended to wage war ? Would it not be extended to many articles the produce of slave labour which were indispensable articles of con sumption ? The English were a great commercial peo ple. They had, infinitely to their honour, abolished slavery, in spite of opposition for a series of years ema nating from that very party which now came before the House to complain of encouragement being given to slavery. Having done that, having dissolved all connection with slavery, was it to be said they were to sacrifice the in terests of the, people of this country by waging war against all slave produce ? The Hon. Member for Newark had endeavoured to draw a distinction between bettors and coffee, and he stated that in the produce of those articles there was great difference in the labour of the slave—that was a distinction which the Hon. Gentleman was more competent to decide than he (Sir G. Grey) was.—(Cheers.) But that was a species of argument which the people would not tolerate ; it was against the principle of slavery the people were determined to contend, however mild it might be. Did his Hon. Friend believe the people of this country would draw a distinction bet ween th e s l avery which .existed under a burning sun, and that which was ca r r i e d on i n the cotton trade in America; ? The strength of the people on the subject of the slave-trade had been shown with respect to the exportation of Hill Coolies, and even the Right Hon. Baronet himself had rather an active part in check ing that which he thought tended to slavery. Tho Hon. Member for Newark, had stated that they were aban doning a principle long acted upon with respect to the slave-trade ; he denied that they were doing so. No one knew better than his Hon. Friend that those duties on sugar were placed upon it long before the abolition of the slave trade. There was nothing in the prohi bitory duties, except by the merest accident, which had the effect of changing slavery or the slave trade. If the House acted upon the principle laid down by the Right Hon. Gentleman, they must revise the whole commercial tariff, in order to exclude every article that was produced by slave labour. Now, that he thought was a principle that could not be acted upon by a great commercial country ; more, perhaps, might be done than had been in order to check English capital from finding its way into other countries, for the purpose of carryinc , on slave labour. It had been said that English money had found its way into Cuba and the Brazils, in order to employ slaves. If such was the case, it was a most shameful transaction, especially if that money Caine, as had been stated, froin those who professed their abhorrence of it ; but he thought he knew an instance where the name of an Hon. Member had been seen to a Company working mines in the Brazils where slaves were, employed. The Right Hon. Gentlemen here read a document to show that slaves were employed in every one of the colonies of the country, and observed that he thought the course that had been pursued by those who opposed the measure proposed by Government arose from a political pretext. lie was very glad to see that even the Hon. Gentlemen opposite had given up the petition which had been pre sented by the West India interest. Even the Hon. Member far Newark, who was formerly a West India R dyooate, had now changed his interest, and was the ad vocate of the East India interest.—(Loud cheers.) The great object of the Hon. Gentlemen opposite was, to show that the supply from the East and the West In dies was to be enoiutli for the demand ; but what was the ground upon which the Hon. Gentlemen made such a proposition ? We had now been four years acting under the assimilated duties, yet the supply from that coun try had not increased adequately_ to the expecta tions formed.—(Hear, hear.) The question before the House was, whether protection should be substituted for prohibition.—(Loud cheers.) It -was said upon a former occasion, that the importation of East India sugar would pauperise the negro, but he would ask whether that prediction had been' borne out by the facts ? his Right Hon. Friend . had taken security against any mono poly, while at the sa me ti me h e took security against any scarcity that might arise. It was said that the mea sure proposed by the Government would bring the negro race. back to a state of barbarism. That would indeed be a matter for lamentation, but he could not see in what way the Hon. Me.nbers made out such a case. England . bad set a noble example in the sacri fice, not only of twenty millions, but in consenting to bear a taxation of ten millions in the in creased price of sugar—(Cheers)—but was that sacrifice to be made indefinite ?--7(Cheers.) Was that House to proclaim that the great experiment of emancipation had been a failure ?—(Cheers.) They would do so if they decided that the West India colonies required so much protection that a differential duty of 50 per cent. would not do, that such a protection was not adequate. Hon. I Members on the other side, and among the others the Hon. Member for N ewar k, h a d stated that they did not come there to discuss principles, and the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Cambridge stated' that he should not enter into a general and desultory discussion of the subject. It might be a prudent course for them to take, but he believed the country would see through it.— (Loud cheers.) They would duly appreciate the unwil lingness of Hon. Members opposite to grapple with the principles laid down by her Majesty's Government. And although they might dwell with satisfaction upon their an ticipated triumph, and the result of the coming division, he believed with his Hon. Friend the Member for Balifax, that the more the question was discussed, the better it would be understood by the country.—(Renewed cheers.) He believed, the better it was understood, the less chance there was, whatever pretext or guise they might assume, to enlist the sympathies of the sound-thinking portion of the community on their side of the question. the more the question was discussed, and the better it was understood, the more certain would be the triumph of the principles submitted to the House by her Majesty's Ministers.—(Loud and general cheering.) Lord SANDON rose to explain, but was met with loud cries of "Spoke," "Adjourn," &c., which ren dered it impossible to catch his observations distinctly. We understood the Noble Lord to complain that the Right Hon. Baronet had attributed to h im sentiments which he entirely disowned. The Right Hon. Gentle man had interpreted his cheers as if he had agreed in the Right Hon. Gentleman's exposition of the sentiments of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for the Tower Hainlets, which was not the case.—(Loud cries of " Spoke," " Adjourn.") Mr. GOULBURN also explained. The Right Hon. Gentleman had imputed to him that he had stated that in the present crisis of affairs it was necessary that nothing should be done.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) What he stated was that they were in a crisis which de manded great exertion, but the additional revenue that would be derived from sugar under the circumstances of the quantity announced by the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer to be in the course of arrival from the East and West Indies would be sufficient, and he had said that that revenue would be obtained by their doing nothing.—(Hear, hear.) After a few words from Sir G. GREY in explanation, Mr. BROTHERTON rose and moved the adjournment of the debate.—(Loud cries of " Adjourn," " Go on," " Divide," &c., for some minutes.) Mr. IRVINE said that it was not his intention to have said a word on the subject, if he had not beon singled out by the Right lion. Gentleman (Sir G. Grey) to justify some remarks which were made in answer to the questions put by the Committee of which he was a member. He (Mr. Irvine) thought that if the evidence of Mr. M'Quean were read by every Member of that House, it would give them a due and just' account of what the West Indies have been and what they are now— of what they were likely to become in the event of such a measure taking place as was contemplated by her Ma jesty's Government. He was sure that if the Govern ment had that consideration which was due to the' country, and to the great principles on which the country was hitherto governed they would not have proposed the present measure. They would hesitate in carrying that measure. He agreed with Mr. M'Quean, that the West Indies would become a place of desolation if the present Bill were carried. The question at present under consideration was not, in his opinion, argued ac cording to true principles. He could not pass over the accusation that he was connected with a gold mine worked by slaves. It was perfectly true that, ke a great number of persons opposed to the slave trade ' he had a share in property worked by slave-l a b our . H e doubted not there were many persons in the House as much concerned in mining as he was, and he wished them joy of their speculations.—(Laughter.) He hoped they would be more fortunate than he had been.—(Loud laughter.) Much was said about the blood he had squeezed out of the negro, but he could squeeze no gold. He doubted not:that the Right Hon. Baronet would be glad of a share in it if it were a profitable speculation.—(Laughter.) The House had paid a large sum for the emancipation of the negro, but another Government had valued the negroes at 140 millions, and if the House would do the justice they were so fond of talking of, they would pay the planters the other 120 millions.—(Loud laughter.) This was a subject in which he had a deep interest, and he therefore trusted the House would excuse his obtruding himself on their attention.—(Hear hear.) Mr. BROTHERTON move d the adjournment of the debate, which was agreed to. PUBLIC PARK AT THE EAST-END. , Mr. E. J. STANLEY proposed that the How , should agree to a re so l u ti on au th or i s i ng her. Majkle,.,s Co.nmissioners of Woods and Forests to devote dr, „,, of 100,0001. accruing from the sale of York-hor, se, an d the interest received upon the sum of 72,0001.' York-house had been purchased, t o th e P for which ..n.mation of a park in the east-end of the metropolis. for the purpose w as Bonner's-fields, ar. ~ " . . ..he site chosen d a portion of the vicinity, consisting in all of 290 acw' s , Sir H. PEEL wished to know ac cruing from the sale of York,j)' 'whether the money ,Atse would cover the entire of the estimated expense (kt ' c h„ thdertak i ng. . Mr. E. J. STANLEY, 'said that the sale and the inte rest thereon amounts , as he before stated, to 100,000/., and he believed 0,01 : sum would be quite sufficient for the intended purpe, 6e Mr. KElrip:„E thought that so large a sum should not . be votJ at that late hour, and in so thin a House. Mr ; F '• - 0. STANLEY exp woulied that the resoiution f t rderely enable him to br la in n g in a Bill for the ap- P i kat'.on to the object he had stated of the money ac cru'ng from the sale of York-house. The property was . r .ot public, but belonged strictly to the Crown. Colonel SIBTHORP opposed the resolution. Mr. E. J. STANLEY having again explained, the re solution was agreed to. The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at a Quarter to One o'Clock. TO THE EDITOR OF THE SUN. " General condemnation is a proof of general ignorance." SlR—Though coinciding with the Correspondent of the Times, who signs himself "a Strgeon," in his re marks upon the " drenching system" pursued by surgeon apothecaries, for the purpose of putting money in their pockets at the sacrifice of their patient's health, I must differ with him altogether in his d es i re to abolish the sale of all patent medicines. Empirics, it is true, gull the public by puttinf . , off worthless nostrums ; but, at the same ti me , it mus t be acknowledged that some of the most valuable remedies now in use are patent medi cines. Of these I need only mention " James's Fever Powders" and "Feaver's Gout Embrocation." The latter medicine, the discovery of a gentleman residing in Friday -street, Cheapside, London, has cured me within the last few days of an attack of highly in flammatory out in the short space of a few hours, al though the & had been upon me ten days, and in former attacks I suffered from six to seven weeks, hav ing recourse to the usual medicines without effect. This invaluable remedy 'has, to my own knowledge, performed more wonders in the cure of gout and rheumatism than all the recipes of the faculty could effect. Now, would it not be monstrous to prohi -bit the sale of a specific which has worked, and may still work so much good ? or to refuse to the discoverer of a remedy that confers the blessing of health upon his fellow men the just reward of his ingenuity. I trust that Mr. Hawes will introduce a clause in his Medical Reform Bill, now before Parliament, to test j the nature and efficacy of all patent medicines , so -as to let their merits be fairly tried by c om p e t en t and im partial judges in the public hospitals, and certificates per mitting their sale be granted where they are found de serving them. This would be the true mode of dis covering the remedies that are really beneficial ; and I feel confident that the proprietor of " Feaver'w Gout Embrocation" would not shrink from an ordeal which would tend more completely to establish the well-earned reputation of' his valuable discovery. I am, Sir, your obedient servant, G. B. EVE. Louth, Lincolnshire, May 18, 1841. THE CORN-LAWS AND IMPORT DUTIES. At a meeting of the Directors of the Glasgow Anti- Corn-law Association last week, it was resolved, in ac cordance with the mode of action prescribed at the re cent Free Trade Demonstration in this city, to petition the House of Commons in favour of a repeal of the Corn-laws, and of a revision of the Import Duties. The petition agreed to is an ably drawn up document, and commences by congratulating the House upon the recent movement ,in advance of her Majesty's Ministers, and concludes by praying for the repeal of the Corn-laws, and for a revision of the duties upon goods and produce imported into the United Kingdom. Although the peti tion was only laid down at the Bar of the Royal Ex change, and at other places throughout the city on Saturday, we un!erstand that several thousand signa tures have already Le in appended to it, and we cannot doubt that it will prove one of the most numerously signed petition fiat ever emanated from Glasgow. — Glasgow Argus. The decision of the Cabinet to fix the duty on wheat at Bs., on barley at 4s. Gd., and on oats at 3s. 4d., has given great satisfaction. It is lower than we had been led to expect, but it will not be the less popular with the country. Lord Lansdowne explained on Friday night, in the Lords, that the matter had been fully and delibe rately considered in the Cabinet, and that the decision had been come to with a view of promoting as well the agricultural as the commercial prosperity of the country ; and the well-known caution and moderation of the Noble Marquis are a sufficient guarantee for the honesty of pur pose of those who are now promoting this enlightened commercial policy.—lbid. INVITATION TO THE QUEEN To VISIT IRE LIN n.—A preparatory meeting was held yesterday at Grusham's Hotel, in order to make arrangemems for a gene ral meeting of the citizens to. petition her Majesty to visit. Dublin this summer. The form of a petition was a;lre•d to, and was signed amongst o hers by the Arehbi‘hop of Dublin, the Eishop of Kildare, the Provost, and the City High Sheriffs. 10 7 7E . 1*7 INGEDITI ON. FROM LAST-NIGHTS GAZLTTE. DOWNING-STREET, MAT 72 The Queen has been pleased to appoint Patrick ',Morris, Esq., to he Treasurer of the Ishnd of I\ exfoundland. DOWNING-STREET, MAY 14. The Queen has beer, pleased to appoint Alexander Shep. herd, Esq., to be Treasurer of the Colony of New Zealand. DOWNING-STRET, MAY 10, 1841. The Queen has been pleased to_ appoint Thomas Welsh, Esq., to be Attorney-General of Van Diemen's Land. DOWNING-STREET, MAI- 10, 1841, The Queen has been pleased to appoint Samuel George William Archibald to the office of Master of. the Rolls : James W. Johnson to be Attorney-General ; and J. B. Uuiacke to be Solicitor-General, of the Province of Nova Scotia. FOREIGN-OFFICE, MAY 11. The Queen has been graciously pleased to appoint George Lloyd !lodges, Esq., late her Majesty's Agent mid Consul- General in Egypt, to be her Majesty's Consul-General in de Circle of Lower Saxony and for the Free Cities of llalibirgh, Bremen, and Lubeck. The Queen has also been graciously 'hued to appo;nt Charles John Barnett, Esq., late her Majfttv's Contui at War.. saw, to be her Alajesty's Consul-General in Em pt. WAR-OFFICE, MAY sth Regiment of Dragoon Guards--Lieut. W. B. Knipe to be Captain, by purchase, vice Colquitt, who retims Cor net W. Barnett to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Knipe; J. Fort, Gent., to be Cornet, by purchase, vice Barnett, May .11, 11th Regiment of Foot—Lieutenant-General Sir J. Wilson, K. C. 8., from the tU Foot, to be Colonel, vice General Si R. S. Donkin, demised, May 10. 14th Foot—A. Quiche, Gent. to be Ensign, by purchase, vice Halpin, who retires, May 11. 311 t Foot —Ensign J. D. C. Smyth to be Lieutenant, with. out purchase, vice Graves, appointed to the 14th Light Drs. goon. ; R. Sparrow, Gent., to be Ensign, vice Smyth, May 11. 58th Foot—Surgeon W. Stewart, from the G2d Foot, to be Surgeon, vice Munro, deceased, May 11. 70th Foot_Lieutenant J. W. Baird to be Captain, b_y pur • chase, vice John s t on , who retires ; Ensign H. H. L. Clough to be- Lieutenant, by purchase, vice liaird ; Gentleman Cadet G. A. Schreiber, from the Royal Military College, to be En sign, by purchase, vice Clough, May 11. 82d Foot—Major-General Sir A. Pilkicgton, K. C.D., to be Colonel, vice Sir J. Wilson, appointed to the 11th Foot, May 10. 876th Foot—Lieutenant J. Edwards to be Captain, by pur. chase, vice Hay, who retires ; Ensign the Hon. E. S. Plun kett to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Edwards ; A. L. Holland, Gent. to be Ensign, by purchase, vice Plunkett, May ll._ Mlle Brigade—Brevet Lieut.-61. A. Kennedy, from half pay Unattached. to be Major, vice Kelly, promoted; Captain H. F. Beckwith to be Major, by purchase, vice Kennedy, who retires; Lieut. F. Belson to bo Captain, by purchase, vice Beckwith ; Second Lieut. A. Macdonell to be Fitst Lieute nant, by purchase, vice Belson ; S. St ewar t, G ent , to be Se. cOnd Lieuten an t, by purchase, vice Macdonell, May 11. Cape Mounted Rifl e m en —W. F raser, G ent., to be Emign, without purchase, Map ['NAM CIIED. —Aiajor T. E. Kelly, from tho Bit Bri gade, to be Lieutena n t-C o l one l , v ithout pun:he - se, May I. MEMORANDUM.— A SSiStallt-COMMiSSR/V •General T. Ar nold has been permitted to receive a commutation in lieu of the half-pay of his rank, an t hi ,- commission has been cur celled from 24th October, 18 : 4 M.—Lieutenant F. Whittingham, appointed Captain of the nth Foot, en 30th April, 1841, was promoted from the 67t1' and not Fith, Regiment as stated in the Gazette of that: ' day . , OFFICE OF ORDNANCE, MAY W. MntORANDUM. —The Commissions of Surgeon W. Rich ardson and Assistant-Surgeon W. :Mackintosh, of the Ord nance Medical Department, are dated the 10th April 1841, instead of the 15th, as stated in the Gazette of the 23d ult. Commissions by the Lord Lieutenant of the County of Kent. The Hon. William Twisleton Fiennes to be Deputy Lieuten ant ; Francis Dashwbod, Esq., to be ditto ; William Kenriek, Esq., to be ditto ; David Sdomons, Esq., to be ditto, April 30. Commission by the Lord Lieutenant of NVorcestersline. The Queen's Own Regiment of \Voreestershire Yeomanry— H. B. Domvile, Gent., to be Cornet, vice J. W. Isaac, re tigned, April 30. The following places have been duly registered for solemniz. inn marriages therein, pursuant to the Act of 6th and 7th Wil iam IV., chap. 85 : Siloam Chapel, Langtree, Devonshire. Zion Chapel, Bridlington, Yorkshire. DECLARATION OF INSOLVENCY. GEORGE JOHN BENNETT, lodging-house-keeper, York -street. Portman-square. BANKRUPTCIES SUPERSEDED. JERRY REYNOLDS, woollen-manufacturer; Thorusas, within Saddlewarth, Yorkshire. LEWIS EDWARDS, grocer, Merthyr Tydfil. BANKRUPTS. JOHN HARRISON THOMPSON, silk-throwster, New castle, Staffordshire, to surrendes;, Miy 21, at two; and June 22, at eleven, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Cannon, official assignee, Finsbury-square; Crowder and Maynard, Mansion house-place. WILLIAM LINSDELL, umbrella-manufacturer, Cannon street, City, May 21 and June 22, at eleven, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Johnson, official assignee, Basingliall-street; Mullens, Middleton-street, Spa-fields. GEORGE SA DY_,ER, linen-draper, Cheltenham, Glou cestershire May IT ) , a t t en , an d J une 22 , at three, at the Royal Hotel, Cheltenhr m. Jones and Son, sise-lane London. JOHN vAria HAN BARBER, bank er , Walsall, Stafford shire, May 2`,: and June 22, at eleren, at the George Hotel. Walsall. C,napliu, Gray's inn-square, London; Stubbs and 7 ltirtrangham ; Jesson, Walsall. COPE, sack-dealer, Stafford, Stafforchhire, ti and June 22, at twelve, at the Swan Inn, Stafford. ItC'een and Hand, Stafford; While fteri wnttraore, Dadtord . row, i.to.tee. JOHN and EDWARD MILLARD, cabinetmakers, Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, May 18, at twelve, and June 22, at four, at the Royal Hotel, Cheltenham. ll.;dham Ve rulam-buildings, Gray's Inn, London; Stephens, Cheltenham THOMAS GUY WAKE, scrivener, Castle Cary, Somer setshire, May 26 and June 22, at eleven, at the Somerset Hotel, Wells. Burfoot, Inner Temple, London; Newman and Lyt.n, Yeovil. JAMES MANN, vroolstapler, Norwich. May 19 and Juno 22, at one, at the Royal Hotel, Norwich. Lower, Bread street, Cheapside, Lond , :n ; Tdylor and Sons. Norwich. GEORGE COMLEY, clothier, Nort:i . Nibley, Glouces tershire, May 14, at two, and June 22, at nine, at the Old 801 l Inn, Dursley, Heathcote and Holman, Coleman-street, Lon. don; Bishop, Dursley, Gloucestershire. JOHN BEA UM oNT, grocer, Huddersfield. May 20, at one, and June 22, at half-past two, at the Pack Horse Inn, Huddersfield. 13attve ' Fisher, and Sudlow, Chanc e ry -l ane , London ; Cloughs, Huddersfield. GEORGE GOWER, grocer, Cardiff, May 19, at eleven, and June 29, at two at the Cardiff Arms, Cardiff. son and Sanders, Middle Temple, London; Haberfield, Bristol. JOHN YOUNG, ship buitdcr, Newport, Monmouthshire. May 18, and June 22, at eleven, at the Westga'e Inn, New port. flail, New Boswell-court, Lincoln's Inn, London; Pro thero and Towgood. Newport. WILLIAM lIEGINHOTTOM, cotton spinner, Ashton,- under-Lyne, May 25, and June 22, at twelve, at the Com missioners'- rooms, Manchester. Milne, Patry, Milne, and Morris, Temple, London ; Potter, Manchester. WILLIAM HENRY HIGMAN, saddler, Bristol, June 4, and 22, at twelve, at the Commercial-rooms, Bristol. Ilti.rkitt, Currier's-hall, London-wall, London. DIVIDENDS. At the Court of Bankruptcy, Ba.4nghall-street. W. Moris )n, stationer, Fenehurch-street, London, Juno 3, at half-past eleven—T. and J. Keasley, tanners. Bermondsey, June 3, at half-past twelve—R. and .1. Underhill, linen-drapers, Plymouth, June 3, at one—J. and W. Field, wine and spirit brokers, Mincing-lane, London, June 2, at eleven-4.. J. Smith , and P. Summers, fancy stationers, Tabernacle-walk, Finsbury, June 2, at one—W. Charleton and J. H. Reddell, white lead and colour manufacturer, Berners-street, Commercial road East, June 5, at one—H. Knowles, silk throwster, Ilminstor, Somersetshire, .Tune 5, at two—J. Roelly, chemist, Richard son-street, Berinondsey, June 5, at half-past one—G. Webster. commission-agent, Milk -street, London, June 5, at Lalf-put eleven—J. Bingley, brush-maker, Henrietta-street, Cavendish square, June I, at half-past eleven—J. and J. J. Ashley. bankers, Regent-street, Westminster, June 1, at half-past twelve—J. James, woolen draper, Eouthampton-street, Strand, June 1, at twelve. _ In the Country. 11. Dorset, grazier, Herstmoncieui, Sussex, June 4, at one, at the George Inn, Battle, Sussex—R. Simpson, grocer, She.. field, June 4, at one, at the Town-hall. Sheffield—R. W., G., and J. Moxon, merchants, Kingston-upon-Hull, June 5, at twelve, at the Kingston Hotel, Kingston-upon-Hull—C. Wall bank, metal dealer, Birmingham, June 4. at twelve, at Dee's Hotel, Birmingham—R. Hutchinson, merchant, Vanrhe , ter. June 15, at twelve, at the Commissioners' Rooms, 31andleatCr —.E. Snook, common brewer, Sowhampton, June 7, at one. at the Dolphin Hotel, Southampton— R. Roberts, wine men. chant, Yoxford, Suffolk, June 19, at twelve. at the Bell Inn, Norwich—J. Blayney, stone mason, Chester, Jane 3, at eleven, at the Hop Pole Inn, Chester—K. and J. P. Robson , builders, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, May 31, at two, at the Bankrupt Commission Room, Newcastle-upon-TY"—J• Rae, linen-draper, Blackburn, Lancashire, June 4, at twelve, at the Town-hall, Preston—G. Tennant, minter, Wigan, Lanca shire, June 10, at twelve, at the Swan Inn, Bolton-le-Moors — W. Baines, treacle manufacturer, Liverpool, June 2, at one, at the Clarendom Rooms,• Liverpool—J. Cockcroft, sen., and A. a F t le th tc e h c,; er m ju m n i . s , si s o t n u e ft r ' merchants , Manchester, i lt a l uc a n i e w li s e t s , t r ei, J J ._ u as n ip e , 7 n , c a er t , t tai hr l ee or , A t t e ke ll r, nkururseptr C ont. n Winlaton, Durham, June 2, at eleven, at sin Room, Newcastle-upon-Tyne -- ' l '• Y 414 ilol ywell, June 4, at eleven, at the Wh ite Horse Hotel, Flint. shire. CERTIFICATES—JuNE I . I. Isaacs, clothier, Chatham,. Kent —A. 6 M. °P1)141- L Goodit at ' ' heim. timber mercants, Mansell-street, ' s'fieldi— H. F. Richardson, dealer and chapman, 14 onmonger-lane., London—J. Megson, cloth manufacturer, Dewsbury, York shire. PARTNERSHIPS DISSOLVED. H. Hearon, it. Bright, R. Thompson, and W. APCulloek, wholesale druggts, Bishopsgate-street, London (so.far as re. on- u p on -H u ll (so far as regar ds u Kings t gards R. Thonipson)—W. Hopwood, F .E umber r kin m ) e — ret liankfriynrt:i a_ enhd. J. Mat" : ton and E. Deaco n, boot and s hoo - makers, Brick-lane, Md street—..L. James and J. Burchell, linen-d ra p ers , C anew d an, Ess "—W. H. Clarke and H. Fra n kh am, di stillers, Southwark A. V. Sandau and J. Howell, attorneys, Wing-street, Cheap side—C. Parslow and E. Bennett, tailo rs , G ravesen d-4 Woodward and W. R. Bayliffe, i ron merchants, Sheffield... ants, J. Watson and A. Nairn, g auze manufacturers, Watling-stroet, 4 B il r ° e ra n e t o a z and J. Montgomery. J n thews, common brewers, Sculcoate s , London—B. Salter, T. Owen, Jun., and S. Knowles, brewers, Exeter (so far as regards T. Owen, jun. )—E. and I, James, ironmongers, Carlisle—b. Antrobus and J. Donald, slate mer. chants, Norwich—J. A. Morris and T. Lowe, boot and shoe makers, Chorhon-upori-Medlock, Lanca hire—E. C. Williams, J. llawarden, and R. Mverscough, cotton cloth manufacturers, Stockport—T. and J. Pilditch, builders, Bwlch, Breconshire—. M. Whitwill and J. King, sl,ip- broke. s, 13ristol—J. Whisley and T. Rog erson, attorneys, Liverpool—J. Willian:son and J. Procter, ventry—R. and T. (lay, merchants, Frit'ay-:tree4 London—W. H. Ambler, 11. Scott, and IL Hall, drapers, Sunderland—T. Hyde, J. Dockray, and T. Ambler, machine manufacturers, Iluiplet, Leeds—J. Bradley and R. B. Culler, leather sellers, Crown-street, Finsbury—li• Buchan, E. Sled. den, and H. Buch..n, house ! minters, Su t ,ampton—T, v. and It. J. Meese'', 1 me-hurlers, Stratfor, J. and J. Burton, merchants, New City Chambers, LotiOn— T. and G. King. carriers, Portsmouth—J. %Rat' and W. Newton, ca-tern, Leek, Statronhire—W, Dakin, J. Shintlai„ and T. H. Holton!, e rocer4, Wolverhampt on ( so far as regards 'l'. EL llolford)—C.II. Ash , in and F. C. B att, apothecaries, Abergavenny. 'Monmouthshire. SCOTCH SEQUESTRATIONS. DAVID DOI3IE, bleacher and yard merchnt, Haugh Bl,•ftehti.,l(l, Firesliiv,•, May 14 and June 11, at twelve, at the George Inn. Cuter Fife. JOHN NEILSON, bookbinder, Glasgow, M a y 15 aotl June 5, at one, at the Black B u ll Inn, Glasow. T. , ;a~.