The Sun. — London, England, 1819-12-24 00:00:00

It nectea Ilatiog olitics. 40,0(1yry ta'y o give which undet Dut of of find )st all, worth r cods ectirity 1 bave iiid for 1 as all Carry fit to Courts o anb- I an- of 'he st give neceS-1 nt hati tllhois, extend. lii oppose la say. rk En ml one. , e Now ow of [bete' ject to hick ii a r ia Now, :hy e art : ' :vuhic' i cover- P r at hi fie Ird!i0( p oi• )ttl'S ti is;ra; lassi” F f 3,. t is vot! nerVa • IC prc ss. - l 1 Lve. ? n ;-1111 same d sal% torii".l)r %%0440 pre' akt ,- lid! :'r ge ma° kY.~r• %%hick i etn at ;Olt ii iu ti ri) (,FS bave )11 the L)g tC )f a free .y tart esitir§ Bill of lirroic; s vas ctioll 4 e ite.. at the Ilt~tv° pie rIC011" ondt r sitiolk Imo) I 0,6 In of ut to !, b 4 laing seer- w "reg. ailed Is to viLltV 01) ; o I - e (0 e of bif ante 00 0 ovv, tbe t of I tre be ronl cod' ite(r 31a - ere' Ii) S• ti.• 40d St was Fmsici,eir ;1)44 thelOyll. inhabitants of that ti(y had t•;',n ii arms to defe-d their homes and all that !hey held dear.. • Tliey would not Lave done thi, had there not been danger, and after they had Mitts c"n)e forward, it was too 111 " 01 for the 1-1,,n. and Irned Gentleman, who ~ - 'ad been b ete i n L ou d ,at a diitante of 400 Mille, from The spot, to :peak as be had 'IP" ( it their exerion4, to pronounce the alarm which lad been telt an unfounded panic, and 10 Heat wefitorous conduct of the Lord President Iritb Mr. J . Y . GHANTexpliined. Mr. BIRCH briefly called the attention - of the } louse to the conduct of the Editor of a Minis terial Nottingham Paper, who had accused hint Birch) and his Noble Colleague (Lord Ran 'vliffe) of gross ignorance, or of wilful suppression ° ,f facts, connected with drilling and training in . ticighbout hood, which the Eslitor pledged io prove. In consequence of this, the Town Clerk had been directed to write to him su come forward as a loyal snbjeet, to prove what he hail asserted-.. Instead of doing this, he , raited i th the 'fown Clerk, recanted all lie hail sail, and P r omised-to contradict it in his next Paper. Ile lett the House to torm its judgment on conduct !ike that which he had described. The question that the Speaker should leave the litti r was then put and carried, and the House I. solved itself into the Committee. The pre))ll)He Of . the Bin WB3 pits! poled. Sir J. Nlscisisrosu had originally itvended to It?nye the attic:oho its that he had aonotioced on the third reading of the Bill, butt in deference to 11 'e ‘‘'ishes of Asa hers, he hid determined on briug !liX it forward this evening. The first amendment L e would propose was so small, and he thnught () reasomoble in its character, that there could 'le ill ohleetion made to it. He -wished, in that Pin of the first clause which runs thus, " iu ""Y case. where justice shall be had against any Persoo for composing, pristine, or publishing," ' 0 itorodoce the words " maliciously and advito , before the won d eompoing, , ' the ex. Pressions he had mentioned having formed part -W the :36th of the King, front ovtuich the greater Part of the clause was minutely copied The next a metoluteot hid) he should-propose, and. which be thought of essential importance to the %vent more particularly to describe the offence to lie ptuoished under this Bill. At present it read as fuIIOWS :—" lo every case in which any ver dict o r lodgment by default shall be had against oily p.. cs „ o f or composing, printing, or publish ink any blasphemous Libel, or any seditious Lobel, tending to bring into hatred or con tempt the person of iris MAjest his heirs or successors, or the Rege:ir, or the Govern 'nem and Constitution of the United Kingdom sts by law established, or either House of P arliament, or to excite his Majesty's subjects to attemp t the alteration of any matter in Chord] or State as by law established, otherwise than by means."—This was so loose and vague a cescription of the oft - cues, that he was At a loss to Understand it. He would move to omit the wotds "s to excite his Majestya sulujects to totemot alteration of any matter in Church or State by law establi,livd, ()Otero ise than by lawful meatus," and to supply in their place " or any libel tending to subject to any act, which, it it were done, would be treason or felony." "'lds he would 'lmre itt the fiist instance, but he would also add theio: wortls,"or any libel its which it may [reaffirmed maiotained that his Majssty,by and with thecon sent of thc Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and the Commons, has not, or ought not to have the right of tasking laws that should he binding on his sub olttots in all cases whatever." lie then proceeded to state the grounds on which he proposed these a mendments. It was his object to accomphs!s that which was the expressed wish of almost every G VnlitllPill in the House, to separate the respect tible p a rt of the Press from that which had sent forth those blasphemous publications, which it Was p t ()posed to put down. He moved these atuendments, to bring to the test the sincerity of those who had held this language. The respectable Part o f the Press had never been more meritoriously cooducted than it had been fur the last few years; but a few execrable incendiaries had sent forth Poblications of a novel character--of a cha racter so atrocious, that he thought they ought to be regarded as belonging to the class W lib e l s punishable under the old law.— What he wished was, that the operation of the new l aws s h ou ld he confined to these, and that the old laws should be left to deal ovith those lthels which were similar to the libels of former times. He showed that at present offences which ( triginated in feelings that did honour to the wen e confounded with the most flagitious e tinJes under the gen eral name of libel. This was most nojnst, as 'thus confounding characters so essential)), different, the tuffian was saved from merited obloquy by tlse respectable writer, while the respectable writer was confounded with the ruffian. He showed that the revolutions of the last thirty yews had brought men of education and of first-rate talents to the periodical press, and that the consequence of this was the gradual but constant improvement of those vehicles of infor- Mation. He descanted on the power possessed by the Editors of Newspapers, and highly compliment-. eta the Editor of He Chronicle, who had conducted Paper for mote that, forty years, without ever b eing convicted of a libel. He described that tlividual to have conducted hnnselt in the most cXemplaty insurer on all occasions, and pro ceeded to show the importance of - Cherishing tin! 'encouraging nil meritorious individuals connt coed Uith the .ptess. If this were not done respectable inen would be driven from it, and that mighty tiachine uoidd get into the Jbands of d e sp e rate 'Then. Those connected with it might b exaspe- . tated by ill treatment, but they could not be matte impotent, and it was now for the House to Attesmine which course it would pursue. 11 , •, ltnwever, strongly contended against the impo 'lcy of eonfoondistg respectable to ri•ers with those 'quo end , aVOnt ed to ex cite the people to assassi nation and the most (strut:ions crimes. The last themiontsl class could not be punished under thu a s . it at present stood. He therefore con 'tnded, that Ito: Amendment he proposed to make woOlo re ,d, o the Bill more s theient, ot bile it se -I:atated tiuc resrctaldc persouS - conuectcd with the press from tllose who degraded. it. ne then I moved first Amendment. , Mr. CANNING, fur !foist reniark, that the apology with which the Hoe. and Learned Gentle man had concluded, w.ts to him always unneces sary ; for he never thought his speeches too long. There was eel taluly no Mall in that House to whom, whether he agreed with him or no', he could listen with more pleasure and deference, and twin whom, even when obliged to differ front the toeclitsion to which he came, he Was more sure of treriviog iliformetion, and of hearing much in which he was disposed to concur, and much that demanded his tiugiralified approbation. lf, on the present occasion, lie had any compbsint to meke, it was that his Hon. and Learned Friend had taken too broad a basis for the motion which he had thought it his duty to sehmit to the ilouse, and he could assure him that he should have come to this debate with a different; and he would say it, with a more impat tial feeling, it the speech of the Hon. amid Learned Gentleman had closed with his state ment of the circumstances whice he conceived made his amendment necessary, without going into that 'mire general appeal which, much as it contributed to ornament his oration, and to the delight of those who attended to the ability with e. hieh his speech had been executed, had in his mind nothing to its argument—had brought no coovictiou to him, but which, lie must say, lead excited something of alarm. The alarm which he spoke of arose front the feeling that it imposed on him a task of awful magnitude, unless he were ptepersd to surrender his reason to what had been jest heard from the Honourable and Learned Gentlemen. It should seem that either they most be exposed to the attacks of some mighty irre sistible Power, or they melt fall in with every proposition that might be merle to carry the offering of their homage to the daily Press. For himself, whatever obloquy might fall on him these or elsewhere, he would do his duty, and if the alieroetive were propounded to him to sacrifice himself, or to give up the defence of what he - thought the best interests of the coen try, his choice was made, and whatever he might yield to the argements of his Hon_ and Learned Friend, to the intimation or warning; which he had given, be would yield nothing. Now, when they considered what that power was, to. which they had had their attention directed, aster the description given of the clouds and darkness which enveloped it, and of the certainty with which its bolt was sped to . strike its victim, it must be t e l t that if that House made the slightest concession to it on such grounds the freedom of Parlia ment would be lost—sacrificed to establish net the free dont but the despotism of the press. There,exist ed many despotisms in the world, under none of which he would willingly he a subject. He would not be subject to them, because pervading all society, their baneful influence was felt, destroying liberty and crushing the powers of the mind till the cowitinarice of human life became hardly worth regarding. lie was opposed to despotism whether it existed under an oligarchy or a democrecy,—the one-de graded the Itioneu titled, the whet - led to the establishmeet of uncootrelled mill any power, but never was there any to ril Of subjugation so terrifying to his mind, as that to be submitted to miller the power which had beee power which it shout.' seem it wkss hopeless to resist—a In Which we-Tiled iiself op in the secrecy of a Venetian tribunel, when it strnekeits ' victim with the certainty of the Holy.lucrosition. —(Hear, hear !)—Should that House thee, hay c on cili a tion, seek to reconcile this power •to the Constitution 0111 of which it grew, and ,by the tolerance of which it flourished, was it for them to try to con it over lest it should destroy the parent hero whi c h it sprung ? if it were pro posed that etibleissiou so abject should he made • to any Moleirch or oligarchy 01 the ear , h, his ; Hon. and Lear led Friend would he the first to shrink from such a proposal ; and for himself, he ( slr. Canning) would say, that to all that had been urged on this subject, he would not yield an inch. He would not hollow his Hon. and Learned Friend, by eivisig a character of the Daily Press. For the most part he did pot differ twin hint on this subject ; and, io some particular instances, where he himself had been concerned, it came . within his knowledge, that the iudieiduel men- Owletl by his Honoereble and Learned Friend deserved the character that had just been given of him, lie was happy to state this,. to show that the remarks whiCh he had previostsly made did tiot sprite; either horn- private resent ment or from genet el hostility to the Daily Press,. —But even :lie Daily Press hitch not been wholly free - from, the faults imputed to minor publica tions, though he admitted that a general tone of decency pieveiled them which was less common formetly. The power which the Diurnal Press bad &tied was well known. He wee (lot so foolish as to regret this, nor so mad as to suppose the course Of events could be arrested, but still he was net prepared to serreudkr the tight of le gislation, and that too, not to public opinion, but in the hope of conciliating the organ through which it was to be expressed. He objected to strike out the words which his Hoo. and Learned Friend wished omitted, as it was a very different thing to strike them out, and to feel that it would have been as well that they should never have appeared in it. His Hon. and Learned Friend had objected to the length of the definition of the crime to be repressed, as ie stood at present in the Bill. Whatever else the amendment he had propos ed might be, it hail the superiotity in length— take it by the word or by the syllable—by weight or by tale, it would he touud iofieitely more vo luminous. He did not sly this eves conclusive areurnent, he only said that it was an awkward mode of supplying the remedy to a definition be fore too loog. He (Mr Conning) wished to keep all the Bill as it ar present stood, and told to it part of the atueodment suggested by his H en . an d Learned Ft ieud But it the whole were adopt cd—it the words the Hon, and Learned Geode men wished to omit were struck out ;—if, from a Manichean dread of overawing the power of the Press, they serrendered their own power, he supposed the Press, tout it* attachment to the pelson of his Majesty, to his heirs an d succes sors, anti hoes its -unboun:Jed attachment to the present syst ein o i t Government as by law est a bushed, ant;', for the two Houses of Parliament as at present roust:fitted, w s to pet term their ti ties-- if, in an unaccountable spirit of propitiation this were done, he had no doubt the press would take up the cause with zeal. He was sure that it would writ ability, but those things against which .he had spoken were precious truths, and highly as he thought of the Press, be was not disposed to surrender to it those duties which fell to the share of Pat!lament. He knew that those who assembl6l in that House were imperfecthat their powers wele known, that their faculties might be measured. They were surrour:ded by tin cloud, and he knew that in a few hours what was then pissing there would he made known t o the would by those connected with the ptess, and the little reputation which might rental') to him would be at the mercy of those with whom he would not condescend to propitiate. But knowing all this, he would not surrender to the lady press that precious trust which he had sworn to maintain-- , -which the Patliament was hound to defend, and which, without forgetting their duty, they could not abandon. He had no objectiort add to the Bill the Amendment which provided for the punishment of those who endeavoured to excite the people to acts of assassination and other crimes, and he should feel glad that his Ho nourahle and Learned niend had a share in a measure which went to preserve the good feelings and the morals of the people, and which, as he knew no matt could be more anxions•to secure, so he was sure no man could be more competeot to contribute to the actomplishment of so desirable an object. Lord FoexusToNs agreed with the Right Hon. Gentleman, that nothing .ought to be conceded from tear of the daily press ; hut be denied 1-hat any threat had been) thrown out on the subject by his Hon. and Lcarped Friend, and therefore tire declaration made by the Right Hon. Gentleman was wholly uucalled for. He complained that none of the Learned and lion. Gentlemen oppo site had given any explanation of the clause for banishing men out of the country. He wished to know whether a man so banished would be con sidered as still bound by his allegiance, and in case he should be forced by some Conscription La 1% of the kingdom where he had taken re fuge, to serve against his country, if he would be liable to be Itanged..for high treason when taken ? It was admitted that the press could lead the public mind; was it not therefore Most dangerous to offer a premium, as the present Bill did, to Editois of Papers to write in favour of those foreign Governments, under whose con trol)] they might one day find themselves forced to seek an asylion ? lie contended, that the operations of the clause would be unjust and unequal, as it might be no punishment to a man of fortune to be sent over to France, Mills/ to a poor man with a family, who had pet haps exhauved all his resources in defending the ac, ion, it might be destructive ; the more so as the Bill did not provide him with the means of removal. IVberever Ire retired, the in flue tree of his own Government might so act . upoo others, 4hint i to cause to_ be drive n from count!): to country. The real7object of the Bill appeased to be to restrain education, and to slint the eyes which saw. He therefore regretted that his Hon and Learned Friend should have lent his aid, by his amendment, to make it effective. Sir J. MACKINTOSH, after paying a tribute of praise to the: splendi( eloquence of his Right Hon. Friend CMr. Canning), declared; that it had been directed against an imaginary character of his own raising. He complained that his Hight lion. Pi iend had been pleased o pass over in si lence the whole of wliat he considere.l to be the argtimentative part of his speech, and that silence was more remarkable, as in the only allusion which he made to those arguments, -he (Mr.ean ping) had admitted, that (Ley were such as al most to induce him to vote for the amendment, The Hon. and Learned Member than stated his arguments at considerable length. He defeuded himself against tbecharge of being disposed to sur render the privileges cif the House, which he con sidered necessary to the libeeties of the . people. And why was he m a de th e o bj ec t o f suc h a charge ? Because he wished not to turn agiinst the honest mod respectable branch of the Press, a measure which he had shown woold be unjust and unne cessary if directed towards that quarter ! For this he was represented as so great a traitor to the dignity of Parliameot and the Constitution, that he would religoish those feelings which he had sucked in hi intancy, in order to TOW( the favour of persons connected with the Press. lie had als ways put himself forward to support the privileges of the House, and should always be ready to ex pose himself to attacks and dangers in their de fence. He had not threatened the House with the displeasure and hostility of the daily Press. Ile had only done justice to that Press, by proving that it was no party to the combination of the Se ditious, and such a line WdS necessary— to sup port his argument. lie contended, that it was not re - coninsending a cowardly fear, but a wise po licy, to consider whether the tendency of a •mea sure was to attach a large and important body of men to Government in perilous times, or, on the, contrary, to repel them. There Were several kinds of fear. 'rite one, wise and provident, guarded against dangers ; the other, weak and degrading, sunk under them. It was the former which lie recommended, and in doing so he only appealed to those principles of policy and wisdom by which Empires became great. ME. CANNING explained, that lie had paSsed to the topics in his Honourable and Lerawed Friend's speech which appeared to him most calculated to produce an impression, anti he trusted he had commented on them in lati goage which had not passed the bounds of II iend ship. lie had borrowed his very words from the speech of his lion. and Learned Friend, and only added ti-re name to the meaning, when he had used the expiession Despot ; for lie appealed to the House whether his Hon. and Leariied Friend hail not described a littson, who for forty years had exercised a power little less than des potic, distributing praise or blame as from the Iwo urns by time side of Jove, without any one being able to know whence it came. If he had not dis cussed the arguments of his Honourahlis and Learned Friend, it was because he had conic to the same point by a shorter cot, Ile . would ra ther have closed the debate without alluding to persoll9 j but it was not persons that he at- j tacked, but the crime. Wherever the crime was to be toond e there let the .v'en geao ce i,f the law fall ; he would not. cithsent to take out of the a species of crime- Willett he, hoped to . God would not tae commiltedebut it it were vont miffed, let the offenders take the consequences. He should, however, •11,1Y•e no insufferable ohjec lion to introduce a more prominent description of that crime which be considered the mast disgust ing and horrible, rerommended at taxis tine, if means cold(' be found of doing -so. Bin let. it not be.supposed ou Illis'accolisir, that be thought the aothoi ity of Pill iiiitunt-had ever been more fierce ly and systematically attacked than at tee-present period His Hon. -soul Learned Friend had said truly that there were different kinds of fear. There was a provident tear, that looked at danger to prepare means for it, and it was writer that tear he hoped the Home would legislate. But there also was another fear, the tear of fasci nation, which led i s victims into the jaws of the monster by which it was to be devout ed (Hear, hear !) Mr. Bitolic lima complimented the Right Hon. Gentleman and his Hum. and Learned Friend oat the manner in which they bad carried on their dif f erences, arid covered each other , with Mani chwan praise. A mote good-humoured sand lov ing pair lie haul not seen for a long time.— (Laughter.)—They completely reminded hint of the quarrels of lovers.—(Laughter.)—He then contended, that his Hon. and Learned Friend had not alluded to two classes of persons, but of of fences. lie concurred in -the necessity of &up- - porting.. the Privileges of the House, and should have been the first to resist any appeal made tot iwimidAtiou priipit 'tat 1-1... t Li., 14...Jour able and Learned Friend had made no sti%ll ap peal lie agreed with the Right Honourable Gentleman respecting the difficulty of defining the uffeitee, but did not see why the House should, not rest satisfied with the general defini tion of seditious and blasphemous libel. He con tended, that by their artemie at definition, the authors of tire Bill bad defined their meaning out of it. He then argued against the punishment of banishment, especially at a time when the state of Europe, and the understanding- that existed amongst the fraternity of Kings, would enable Government to give persons banished passports for such countries only where they would be ill treated. There. was no reason why they might not thus be sent to Siberia. Ile considered the boon of Istanishment instead of transportation, .a very doubtful advantage; as, in. the latter case, individuals would incur. op expence. He maintained, that it was highly .dangerous to send political writers abroad to settle among t hose who had seen our enemies, who were now our allies, but might again become our foes. They. might assist those rivals in peace, or excite their hostility in war, %Vito had been our greatest opponents (hiring the American contest ; haul it not been the Irish Exiles ? Who had con ducied Newspapers in France, and commanded corps for the invasion of this country; haul it not also been the Exiles. banished during ihe lush Re bellion ? lie [bell complained that, as if by com mon consent, the House haul entirely lost sight of that spoliation 'of private character, which had never been carried to a greater height by tl.e press. than some years since. But he consider ed the encouragers of slander fully as criminal Has those who dealt in that base commodity.— . And many of 'those who reprobated most vale-. Htnently the political offences of the press, had become themselves the greatest wrong-doers, .by Weing the warmest patrons of its standeroui au dacity. Lie blamed the Noble Lord opposite for singling out for promotion and -patronage the Editors of the Satirist and the Scourge. He bad haul occasion to look into the former of these wo, anti within flue memory of than fouler or more fit: by slander had never been heaped up to gether as disgraced that iotamous publication.-- Yet the Noble Lord had sent its Editor to'reOre sew his Majesty as Consul to Oise of the -United States ! lie theta defended the propriety - of spreadiug education tar and wide, and stated that, much as he was attached to liberty, he would ra ther sink into a-monarchy imposing narrower li mits to the rights of the people, than eiljuryrhat liberty in a dark and savage state of society. But freedom was the parent of our advance in civiliza tion, and it would be. roost' unnatural if the parent could be preserved by the destructions of its moat vavnableoffspring„ Lord CASTLEREAGH disapproved, as mttclr as the Hon. and Leal tied Gentleman himself, of the disposition of the Press - to invade the peace of families, but the difference between the two kinds of offences was .o great, as to leave no link be tween them. He did not suppose that it was in tended as a personal charge on himself, and yet the Hon. and roamed Gentleman had applied blame to him in tine selection of an individual to be his Majesty's Consul in America. That indi. vidual had been recommended to him (Lord C.) as fit for the situation; he was a Barrister, and at the time lie (Lord C.) had never heard that lie was the Editor of the Satirist, or wrote for that work, which he had never read. Mr. BROUGHAM contended, that on hearing of the appointment lie had called the attention of the Noble Lord himselt'to the infamous nature of the publics ion which that person wrote and edited, and yet although the facts had been proved the Noble Lord had confirmed his appointment. Lord CASTLEREAGH was understood tosay, that the question had been ~ put to him after the asp. point went had appeared iu the Gazette. Mr. SC ARLETT stated, that the adoption of• the. Amendment propoted. to etre Bill, would not ex clude any offence torn its j)ability to punishment, but would leave that putio , hment to be measured and inflicred by the . :exiSiing laws, which were armed with sufficiene paw-er'for the purpose. lie cmi t e rided,. that the Bill would make the simple disciussiOn of the votes and measures of Parliament an offence to be visited Withbanisliment. Sir J. MACKINTOSH asked the Hon. and Learn ed Guaitleman eppo , ite, why lie had not followed the 36th of the liing closely, and inserted the words " maliciously and advisedly," which were contained ill that A c t ? The ATTORNEY-GENERAL objected to the Airmudinent proposed by hit, Hon. and Learned Flivnd, on the ground that an incorrect view batl been tatien of the clause. It Wet. uot a legis:a.