The Sun. — London, England, 1816-06-13 00:00:00

HOUSE, OF COMMONS. The Unsgow and Carlisle. Road Improvement Bill .was In on2ht tn, and read a (list time. The America Conerbtion Bill was read a third time. In the (otinttittee oft the Ropeitieell Rill, Mr. RoBINSON proposed the Resolutions of the Select Committee to reduce the duty of 17d. to 9d.; which being agreed to, the house I'l:Slimed, and the Report wn.s ordered to be rt:ceived to rnortow. . Accounts of the Expence of the New Sewer from Mary-le bone Park were presented. I ift he Committee on the Stone .Bottle Act, Resnlutims Nytre moved fur 11 . cw Duties, and agreed' : Report to morrow. . . _ Mr. LAMBTON obtained leare to bring in a 13111 to amend nit Act fur the protection of property from tiotous assemblages. Tire 13111 was brought in, and read a - first time. -A Petition Was presented from the Frame-workers at Not. tloghnin for the Regulation of the Trade. the Committee on ' Coals, Resolutions were passed re -I;peeti ng the bringing of Coals, Cinders, &c. tu'Lopdon. Re port to-morrow. ' Sir J. NEWPORT t•are notice of a Motion for extending thi: measur e s r e sp ec t ing M a dh ou s es t o Ir e l a nd, ' The R'eport of ;be smith Sea Trade Committee was , brouizltt IV, and agreed to.—The Demrara Trade Regulation Rill arcs -read a scuond timc.—The Smuggling Bill was read a se cond time.—The Sugar Bill went through the Coluntittee ; tteptirt to-morrow. TRINITY-HOUSE. I\h'. Butcn wished to know how the interest of the 40,0001., which it appeared the Trinity bons(' posttssed in stock, &c. was applied ? Mr. Rosr. said, there was no objection to any. informat ion. moved for accounts Of sums laid out by the Trinity-honSe for the purehase'of stick; also toe accounts of the gross 'revenues, distin guishing particular branches, for ten years past; for accounts 01 balances, distinct from pilotage charges, for ten years ; for names of counties and 'parishes, and the number of persons receiving .. pensions therein ; and for the printing of accounts received by the Trinity-house.-Agreed to. The - Trish raper Regulation Bill went thrdugh the Committee. ALGIERS, Mr. BROUGHAM asked, whether, since our 'heat . ) , with Algiers, vesselsibearing the British flag had been captured ? Mr. 13:BATHURST said, that no official intelli genre of that sort had been received. Mr. BROUGHAM.--Is the Treaty with his Pira tical Majesty received ? • • • Mr. 134-14tuesr replied in - an inaudible tone. Mr. BROUGHAM said, he should move for its production on Tuesway. The American ships Bin went through the. Committee; TitrASZJIIER OF GREENWICH HOSPITAL. Mrf CAtCRAPT, Ott rising to move for a new Writ' for 4ochester, took a review of' the argil. merits which had already • been urged for and against the question of . the propriety of Sir Tito mas'Thomption holding his seat after accepting the appointment, of Treasurer of Greenwich Hos.' pital. in consequence of theclaims• of tite , Peti." tiontrs of Itochester, he deemed it his duty to take the sense of the House once trfOre on the . s it hj ec i, The lion. Gentleman then contended, that the cifiea which Sir Thomas Thompson hail accepted was neither,a naval nor a military poititinent, and therefore, in conforMity t(/ the Act of Often Anne, he ought to have vacated his seat. The question of the propriety of this vacation w a ,, h ot in his opinion, met with mablineris by Ali tiister, Who bad got rid of it by eat tying the, pie \rtions question. He qUoted the precedent of Caj,t. Baker, who, in, the year : 173.6, vacated his stoat in consequence of accepting this very appointment. Why tben, het:lilted, shouldSir.Thomas Thomp son be suffered to retain his I It was a question Which most materially affected the prerogative of the Crown and the rights.of the' People, - pact Ids retentijo of his seat was .defeating one oldie sidntary Acts that ever were passed for se. cut ing the just privileges s of the people. It was not tieeetisity to say more.. He .sho,tild first. wore; than Obe a ppoittttncnt of Treasurer of Greenwich 1 lospit al Way n9t un asppointment. in the Army or Navy, ‘Vben this was decided in the affirmative, *Wile trosted' it tutist . be,' he should move that a new . wilt he issued for Rochester: m r ; PATHURST,said, the more direct way of meeting the tweittioll would have been, to move for time new Writ at once. There was no neces sity tatOWll for the House to accede to the Hon. Gentleman's motion. They ought to exercise their judgment on the construction of Acts of Par liament ; but he thought it could not he de. pied, 'that Parlianient had firactiently decided, though not by their votes, that the Governors of Greenwich Cud Chelsea Hospitals were Mi. , roar, Appointments ; and therefore, on the Mlle principle, it 'was not outstretching the Act to say, that this appointment was of the same na;. , ture, and was certainly nut liable to the objec tions of the Honourable Gentleman. He s t a t e d at some length, the duties' of Treasurer of Green. wich Hospital, which„ he contended, made it as spud) a military office as that of the Governor or Master; which t%itS admitted to be one. He saw uo distinction Whatever. Unless the House tin. did )1 hat it bad already.done, it ought to abide. by _4, I<le concluded by moving the previous question;.' The House then divided on the original m 4• tion— Ayos Nuei...... Majority in4liinst Ministers 1 Before' nor return to the Gallery, the new Writ for Roeirtiter tile moved for and-ordered, iintidst loud cheering from the Opposition Benches. LOTI'EP.IES. _ _. .... LY LRrON, on rising to make his pro mised motion on this subject, descanted on the great injury sustained by the public in various ways. He did not flatter himself that his attempt would succeed,_ as, when the financial ciremu stanc'esof the country were in a much better condition than they were at present, similar ma tions had been rejected. But he was convinced, that 'however indifferent the public mind might be in,t now to the subject, he felt that the time was not far distant when the whole systein would be formally and entirely abandoned. As 'a financial measure , a Lottery %vas an evil, because the ex pence of its collection, taken from the pockets - of the people, amounted to as nmeti or more than the revenue it pimineed. According to a paper which be held in his hand, the whole annual pro once, on tiff a verage ut five years, amounted to way -in which this was colketcti, the public had to pay not less than a million. The at'erage totinher of ticiteta issnal under tine present Act, WAS 60,000 in a year, and supposing only 40,000 of these to be sold, at 231. At piece, there was a million obviously drawn from the pockets of the people, for the put pose of raising, 550,0001. to the State. Thus the levying of this Tax was more immoderate than any other. When ihe tickets did nut sell, and the principal p r iz es w ct , e 'voltam°, the Contractors raised the price of the tickets to the untortionste dupes who pu m rchased the, amid it generally always Iteppeti ed that they reimbursed themselves by the chalices'. that remained' unsold; for the greatest prizes al most inevitably fell to iheir own lot. The alartr 'ing practice of illegal,insurance, was., however, a . still greater evil. The - laws ak , Slitst 'those who engaged 'in it were unexampled in their severity; Any cowmen informer might get into the cow- . pany of Mint respectable individuals for a few mi *noes, itierth'en, by gOing to a Police-office, amid' swearing . that he or she toiß; the parties engag- • ed ill taking illegal insermicest time Magistrate was bound, on the oath of such individual, to commit 016-person to prisMi for at 'least one month; and there was no appeal, unless the person informed' against . could, prove an alibi,. The Hot - towable Gentleman descanted at Much length on these evils, which arose entirely fl'ont the :State Lone= ries, And - tndil only be put au end to by their IMPreSSioil. That the practice of illegarin .surance had been much decreased under the new Act he did not deity ; but an idea might . .be formed of the present extent 'of it, when it appeared from time pepers in. his hand, 'that in the year ,1814 no less than 116 ev.rsoims, , had been convicted on time oaths of common in farMers, of being concerned in illegal inseraeces, and 55 in 1815.- • [Here- the lion, Gentleman Acad `the particulars.ofahtee cases of persons so con- . victed, one of whom was a highly respectable Clerk in the Etteise'Utlice, who leul suffered two Months' imprieminient through time ninth of a wo man who came to his desk to ask him a frivolous question, that she might have an opportunity of committing perjury . (for which site was herself ' afterwards convicted), and getting the- penalty.-- This person was 'afterwards reinstated in his ()Thee; by the Com Missioners, and his arrears ordered to be paid him,' which the Honourable Gentleman argued was a complete proof of his innocence.] Another tax upon the public, he contended, was ',the salaries paid to persons under Govern ment connected with the Lottery; - told which were, iii fact, so 11140 y sinecures. There were 'not. less than tour persons who had 5001. a year each, fiee - who bad 3501.'; . ihundred and twenty -who : 11442001.; and twenty 'Under or General Com mrisioners, who had .3001. These General Commis simmers, had .only, to come. from the country, and attend,about a fortnight for.each Lottery, ao that they were, in tact, paid-for doingnothing ; while the Whole' eipence'to Government iris not less than between 15,0001. and 17„0001,A year. In shori, time whole system was.one of delusion, and . that.of the worst' sort, as it not only teadeatepes:, of the poor, but raised the utmost severity of the penal laws agaiuw them. He'aeas of oVitiibit the- Lottery did not merely tern the gthutiling, existed to account, het had a tendency to create a great deal which otherwise would- nuebe in the Coln WU uity . It WO tikgraCetni to the•iair • fame ut Goveritmet'it, bruit to time common SCASC of t hOSe Who engaged in it. If it .produced ` to the Treastuy o Imodreil fold 'more' thee' it did,' still he WouldOot gi , e' it his approbation ; at present• he believed the Advantages nem ived from' 'the State Lottery 'vvere rather .nominal than real. lie believed, in point' of fact,' all: circomstauces fairly taken into consideration, it , would be found instead of' being: gainers, the Government were, in the end, losers, by it.--7" Lie then referred to the Report of the Committee of 1806', in which this mode of taxation was strongly reprobated, and the profits arising froin it described to be much smaller titan they at. first, appeared. That. Report he could wish to-be re-.' printed, and 'this .he had it in contemplation to move in the next Session. He eoncluded„hy moviug Resolutioes; which set, kortle:—‘. That by estab lishieg State lotteries, . the Governmenteneott raged a spirit of **Milling among the people, must injurious to public morals, amid ultimately impaired the ,financial resourees:of the Comm-, try; and the House therefore determined they would not . 301010 sucli a Made of failing any p4rt of the Ways and Mesas of :the year, for the time to come." lir. RERNALID NIORLAND seconded the motion.' The present period was,, in liia opiniOn, favour= able ruts 'suppressing LOtteries, because'e had got r.id or the War, tile expellees of which had , been urged as the argument for continuing Lot ! . teries, notwithstanding the evils attending them had been so fully exposed ; and the present cellar of the Exchequer had been the author of , the Act for suppressing that species of Lotteries' called Little Goes, and he considered him as still more strongly, bound to discontinue the Great State Lottery, as prodncing tenfold mischief. — `Lotteries had been the source of some very severe penal lawa; and he thought it•extreme injustice m aLegiSlatnre to create an inducement to crime, and then inflict heavy punishment on those who were thus led astray. it brought to his recollec tion whit Was said of arbitrary Governments by a Noble Writer, namely, that they resemble the Devil himself in many respecti, but particularly . in this, that he i&, both the tempter and tormen tor-7—ht makes the criminal, and then-wishes the crime. Ile dwelt upon the baneful effects. which Lotteiies produced among the poor of the Metropolis, who denied themselves and their t 4 ,7.,. nulies the usnal portion .of subsistence while , the Lottrery is drawing, that *they might apply,their savings to the .Lottery; and it appeared that crimes' were intilliplied diving that period. tie hoped the Hon. Gentleman would pursue this subject withoUt intermission, and that, whatever. might be .the fate of the'present motiou r h; would sooner , or later be succi.'ssful . in, effecting hi*,, object. The CHANCELLOR of the FACIIRQUtift said, if the proceeds of -State Lotteries were such ,us litid been described by the Hail. Gentleman, there would he no neceskity for the , present motion, as the evil would clu inillc awin of itsell, 'file tem, he was of opinion, Most be continued on the grounds on which it bad bitkerto been nplirld, It toOk ildv'etntivie of the spirit tor advent , iir iu 4. Lotteries which edited in, the country, but did not create one, and he knew of no mode by which 600,0001. could be raised with so little pressure on the people. If the Honourable Gen tleman could propose any better mode of: curing our financial maladies, he, (the ,chancellor of the Ux chetpier) woald be glad to adopt it instead of the Lottery. To hint it did not appear that the charge on'the Lottery Tickets, as 'sold to the public, at all exceeded that reasonable'profit which the yen ,tiors had .a right to demand. The principal ,evil growing from Lotteries arose from the practice of insuring, but these by the present arrangements were Almost totally done.away, for he could not conceive any -plausible scheme of Insurance to a considerable extent that could be founded on the peesent Lotteries, which would at all answer the purpose of its projectors. The evils, therefore,' which, had beet] 'described., and which existed when the drawing of the Lottery ,lasted 42 (tar, had almost ceased, from the course bitterly adopt edi The Of insuring thus suppressed, it only remained to dispose of the Private Lot teries. 'The State Lottery be belieVed • greatly tended to diminish•these; as it was found in the absence of ,Priblic. Lotteries, they always *teas ed, and the Agents of Foreign LirtteryOtlices dis posed of great numbers of ticks: is in this country. He defended the peovisions - made for punishitig those who offended-the law by insuring, &c. and contended, though cases . of hardship might in some instances have occurred, ti n t they 'were nut sirooger than were found to be necessary. He did not feel those setions objections to the pur chasing .of shares which others thought they could discover.,. He did not see that, it led to gautbliag, nor conic! he think the evil of ,a.very serious cha racter. it the public should grow wise enough to abstain front purchasing Lottery Shares alto. poker, he should eertairdy rejoice in such an int proveaient in the morals of .the community ;. and Ire sincerely wished the 11011, persuade the people to deposit those sums which they now expended on ventures in the Lottery in Saving Banks,. This- could nut be.looked for itir• MelliNtiely, -hut such a change might possibly be worked in time by ;the progress of education, in bonsequence of the numerous Benevolent establisbr, mots which hail sprung up for instructing, the poor. -He opposed the present motion; and ob serveil,:even. ,if it WAS carried, it:cordri notlake effect in the course of the present year. Sir ,`.3,.,13.05itt,tv, knowing the private virtues of the Chatic,ellor of the F. - Xelt&pier, was surprised at the levity with which lie had trotted this subject.. 'lle (Sir S. ROmilly). Was of opinion, that .when 'e%:er i lonse.voted ri.,Lotter/,they voted, that many, who were then deserving characters, should beeortiF 7 tinprincipterl garriblers : This opinion he _siipported try a reference to the Report of ISOS. - He pointedly condemned those infamouse arts; by which the industritiiii - nrechanic k , the faithful'ser. , emit, and the fai&otrifitis apprent ice, were hired to speculate in ,the Lottery; to their destruction. The Itight4fun:Geneleman-holseditrtitne_the,progress 4.4 - edneittjou woud. put ( lWw,ait 10.1 N n the evil. how his to.be expected ? The poor, from the instruction they re'ceived, would learii to read those iNg,t`liceful puff's whiclispfieitred Hll over `the town, and would thus be,jicre Wiely to ,be deluded, He . thought it most Injurious to the4tublie that five or six ;Lotteries o,i c uild he strawt% in every year. Could the Right flon Gentleman:l)o6'c the spirit of gambling would exist to the same extent io the country, which it now tli:l,"'if there were no Sta'ti Lotteries? Would . fitreigii rot levies; or. little goes, svread the sante s'nare- 4K/441e-unwary to which tt,ey,were now exposer' ? Would these be tidrer tised at the,eorner . of every street'? Would it be pusilible . to pass through no village in tbe,nation, without seeing thAtiplacards posted to tempt the thoughtless, by the hope of gaining prizes of 20 or 30,0001..? . „lle believed tbe great -increase o f crime which had been remarked of late years was in :a•great measure caused . by , the.State Lot, At the comtnencernent of the 141,sent ,thC convictions averaged tour hundred a year.. The number Kits now swelled to •1,400.. A very tew years ago they'did,nritexCeed:9oo. Thi . be . believed ro proceed front the source he had named. To the Lutterie; he attribitted that Fapid - accumulation of crime, which, in a- few ' years had increased the - namber of eonvictions . as five to liturteen., lie could not agree with the` chancellor of the Exchequer that the presini mode of drawing the Lottery pre -vented insurin. in the fast year there bad been 116 convictions, ind.l37 prosecutions. If there vas a dcereasein the number of convictions, .he contended It could not prove in this partictilar instztnce a correspond ing .diminution of Crime. This he '.showed had been .übly explained by the Committee of The.crimes committed in conseiluenee of the es 7 lablighment - of State LOtterici, would, in his opi nion, be cheaply bought afar, GOO,OOO per annum. Instead .of .doing this, we excited' these crimes to , gain. the paltry sum he had mentioned. We ought not thins to 'expose the, poor to temptation, , and then punish them for falling into the snare. WitantnFouch objected.,. to .Lotteries, as tentling•to 'encourage direct gambling more thin' any 'other eircumstance, whatever. fherecbdid be no excuse. for aLottery, bec a use it was in it self a. vicious transaction. - tended to the struction of domestic happiness, by tempting die subject' to deviate from those habits .olsober rtries. dusiry, which, persevered in could _not fail of _briogint.their possessor comfort. • If it were now proposed„ fur the first he waststire no Van would he found to sup Oort it. tie anxiously hoped. that an end would. be put...iojt now. The pro gressof. education, he feared, would not stop the lip . eyen.feared this might augmentit. tie thought •it wott, therefore fit that the temptation , now held mit should no longer be, suffered to se . - duce the poor .leoai Vie Path of houest ihtiustry. Ahoti never forget the,statement, once made by the late 4lember for Bedford ot the cases, of distress which had ca me to leis kno,Wjedge, rnithig inflie Lottery. 11e . hoped the pericd WAS not. far distant, wh e n this part of our financial system, would 'be done away, and that' t would n,ot .agaio be in hie power of a Member of that-' Ilouse to make; (soother stat ement like that to whieb be, had referred.' Locr.u4RT jivsctibefl the Lotteries to be tlie,sonrce of inealcutuble mischief to tlie commu nity, jin t Jo the flight floQ. Gthnlemao op posite, ir Lis Saviiiit'gnk' could be of any t17,e,, the poor were thus induced to gamble tarty their savings. LUSHINGTON opposed the motion. Jr. AVilbetforce aud Mr. Lushington severally Mr. BUTTERWORTH had recently had occasion to know, that out of 22 convicts who . had 'corn pitted serious offences againg the laws of their country, NI hail commenced their vicious courses by gamblingqn the streets for small sums of mo ney. This spirit he consklere d have been iii a great measure excited by the Lotteries. _ Lord COMPTON opposed the resolutions, as,, if English Lotteries were put down, great numbers, of Foreign Lottery Ticketi would be sold 'in this country. ._.Much of the evil attendant on Lotteries' arose from_ the puffing Advertisements published respecting them ; and these might be in a gr!at: measure `done away, if Government were to con . tine the sale of them to one office, and thuspre" yent.the present competition. Air. W. SMITH reprobated the Lottery systetU altogether, and supported the resolutions. Mr. BARCLAY spoke to the same effect . . -Mr. LYTILETON replied, it appeared to bid s that the•victims of Little Goes woe the disciples of the public Lottery. Finding himself supported by so many persons of the highest character, he would certainly mrsist in his motion. After a tew words from the Chancellor 01 t h e Exchequer aud Mr. Lyttletnu, in way of C * ll. planation, the Muse divided— Ayes ,21 Noes . 47 ....... , Majority against the motion... IRISH GRAND SURIES. On the question 'for the House going into Committee on the Irish Grand Jury Bill, t h e Chair. Sir F..Ft.000 o . pposed the Speaker lvving t" Chair. He ccmlu not suffer this, or any oth er opportunity of opposing this most extraordina r y Bill to'pass—a Bill which did no less than impute to the Grand Juries of Ireland, that, front tioc unittemorial, they had been all in the wrong. lje considered it' as a Bill Without principle, an d therefore should ever oppose it. -The House-then went into a Committee, Lord, Ci.tSTLCREAGEI proposed $ clause, a lloy(' it the written depositions taken before the Its", gistrates to be sent up to Grand Juries, and fat' titer allowing Grand Jurymen to be examined .(n prosecutions for perjuries committed by witness" before them..: Upon thisclause some discussion, took pl 4 c e ' in, which Mr. Abercrotnbie, Mr. Alrebber, Sir ~ Newport, Mr. Ponsonby, Mr. Peel, Mr. Coate ney, Colonel Rat*, the SolicitOr-Generst,Sir J. Stewart, and , Mr: Horner (who:wished tian' tv consider it), took a part., when it was Withdrawn. Some verbal amendments were made, and th e Report was brought up. . The Silver Coinage Bill Went through a C 1)111. mittee. In a Committee of Ways and Means, the sure of 3,000,0005. was ordered to be applied to t he service of Great Britain, and 1,800;0001. for 17 ; • laud. - The Resolutions were agreed to, 00 Report was brought up. IV ash The Bill for repealing cert a in Duties on and Spirits was read a first time.--Second readigo The Irish Yeomanry Bill was read this day . . • a ,ecoral time, and committed for this day. ha In a . Cominittee of Supply, the E s timate fo . r i t " r : diseMbOdied Militia was r e f erre d to t h e coollu e .,. talon Of the Committee. A sum of 150,0001• voted -for defraying the-charges of the disellw am died Altlitia • s and 100,0001. for Ireland. Rep °t, this-day.—Atijourned at ONS O'CLOCK. " • , MEETING 4T THE MANSION-HOUSE•,.+., CHIMNEY-SWEEPERS. Yesterday a' :very numerous and respeo B - Meeting was held at t h e M ans i on -h ouse , far 1)*- purpose of superseding the_neeessity of Climbing boys, by encour ag i ng a met h o d o f Sweeping Chita' nies by Machine r y, an d f or i mprov i ng • t h e canu` riot) of children, an d o th ers , at presen t employed: by Chininey-sweepers. The LORD MAYOR took The Chair at one o'clock, and havini stated the object of the , meeting, he was followed by Mr. Tooke, Secretary to the Institution already Ow, Wished for the purpose in questi o n, who detaile d ' the ptugress they hail made; and forcibly pointed, out t he barriers that existed,to ingiedethe greo object, of humanity they had in .view, namely• to rescue young end unprotected children from * life of misery and wretchedness, that, us a do. mestic.evil, was equal, if not more hateful, Oa* the slave trade. Sir F..Bitrdett, the Hon. Mr. Bennett, the lion' Mr..D. Burrell, Mr. Wilberforce, Mr. Hall, 141 * Fry, Dr. Lmilingtou, Major Cartwright, 1 % 1r • Roweruft, Nf. Bevan, and sever a l o thers too' part in the debate. . _ The rept esentationa of the Speakers as %rel i° I the Report of th e C omm i ttee, di sc losed tltl - wretched situation of those who, at an infant age , were devoted to this nikerAble life, and stitetit: the Meeting the man y an d successful experiflel that had been made of the m o d e no t only (4 e . • tectnally sweeping, but of extinguishing firer la chimnies. It was further stated, that upon t, ,i,, eh , Continent, with th e ex ce p t i on o f F ra nce, ti" practice was scarce l y known ; and that even in Scotland, nknown. t . in - 99 eases out of 100, the practice 0 . the climbing.boy . was w h o ll Tu . A master chi mney z sweeper com b ate d, wit h tt small ability, the objections of several of thti speakers, though he dereeated the cruelty e xe, c m lard by some members ,f the fraternity, ob ser 4 ing, that in that as well as every other tt3r there,lwere Bond and b a d mem b e r s . He was b3r. with much attention, avid concluded amidst grn' gal testimonies of approbation. Several ' Resol u tio n s were aft e rwards pia a i n e ' l carried, recommendi n g the use of the and for the purp*ose of applying to Parliion e l tt upon the subject in questioh. Thanks being voted to the LOH INTayor and to *Committee, a very liberal subscription was e terecl into by the Ladies and Gentleman pre'ellt and the Meeting dissolved. —.ow" r. 1 .1.100.111111..1•10111111.11. 111•••• LONDON : ' Primed by J. H. cARsTAIRS, No. ".", ' re " . buildings; and pubic:lied by W. A. SCIIII*PS, of 8 n1 T... " :, at !lin Sum-atilt If ,; ISi .Stranil4 where Mr '1 1 " trienti ; Orders, ttirs tsp3st.p7 4 l4),&-t...ripist be addro:,3.rO'