The Sun. — London, England, 1867-10-25 00:00:00

THE MEMBER FOR HULL ON THE RE- FORM QUES7ION. A large and influential meeting was held in the Hull Sessions-house on Wednesday evening to hear addresses from the borough members, Mr. Clay and Mr. Norwood. Mr. B. M. Jalland, who presided, said he thought they had cause to be thankful to their representatives for the assistance they had ren dered in the passing of the new Reform Bill. Mr. CLAY on rising was received with repeated rounds of cheering. After the applause had sub sided he said—Since I last had the honour of ad dressing you Parliament has sanctioned a change in the laws respecting the representation of the people greater even than that which was effected by the Reform Bill of 1832, greater especially as r gards the extension of the franchise than probably the most sanguiue among us had expected. As it was easy to believe there have been many different opinions expressed as to the result of this measure. Some recoil from it with fear, others look forward to it with hope ; while some there are, and those are the men who have always been the most eager and the loudest in asking for an extension of popular power, who find in this great change scarce any thing for which to be thankful. They are bad to please. For my part it appears to me that the Reform Bill of 1867 is a triumph of Radi cal principles, for which every honest Radi cal and every reasonable Radieal should be the more thankful, because he little expected it. (Ap plause.) But there are many here to whom I have had the pleasure of speaking frequently before, both those who have for a long time enjoyed the fran chise, and many who are even yet excluded from the franchise—an exclusion which is about to see a speedy termination. I appeal, therefore, confidently to your memory whether events have not fully borne out the opinion which I have always expressed; when I have told you over and over again that no member of Parliament, however earnest a speaker, however eloquent, no Government even, however well disposed, could obtain for you a wide and real extension of popular power, no, unless by your own efforts, by your own clearly and generally expressed desire and determination, you obtained it for your selves. Nor was there any good reason why this should be otherwise. England, since the first Re form Bill, had been well and wisely governed; and the reason for a great change was only to be found in the unmistakable and notorious demands of the people for a more direct participation in the legis lation of the country, a demand having its source in their increased well-being and their intelligence. Failure after failure, both of individual effort and of Government bills, had tested the correctness of my views, until at last—a little more than a year past—until at last the voice of the people was heard in earnest, and we were already in easy sight of household suffrage. When, therefore, lam asked to which of the great parties in the State the people are to return their thanks for the great boon which has been conferred upon them, I am never puzzled for my answer. Are we to thank the Tories ? Are we to thank the Whigs? Certainly not the the Whigs. Are we to t hank the Radicals ? No, to none of these is your first gratitude due. First and foremost let the people thank themselves. (Ap plause.) They have done their own work, and done it well. We will see presently who should come next. It is little more than a year since I had the honour of speaking to you in the Queen's Theatre. It was at that time suite uncertain whether Lord Derby's Government would introduce a Reform Bill. Forgive me if I ask from you some little credit for sagacity—(hear, hear)—when I re mind you that I then ventured to prophesy that Lord Derby's Government would introduce a Re form Bill, and that one of its leading provisions would be household suffrage. (Applause.) It is true that household suffrage was not the first offer which was made to us. Other schemes were sug gested, scarcely proposed, and certainly not insisted on. I dismiss them, and they were generally so dismissed as altogether unworthy of notice ; they only serve to show that little less than that which we have now obtained would have been accepted. (hear.) At the meeting to which I referred I pledged myself, with your loudly expressed approval, to support any measure, from whatever party it might come, which promised a rehl and wide exten sion of popular power. (Applause.) At last, then, after the schemes to which I have alluded—as I had always expected—household suffrage came; not, indeed, pure and simple, but accompanied by certain checks and counterpoises—so its authors called them —as a screen of laths to keep out the sea, framed only to be abandoned, and inviting destruction from their very frailty. The good sense of General Peel foresaw at once that they could never stand. Then arose a difference of opinion in the Liberal ranks. Many thought the measure went . much too far ; others considered it a sham so transparent, and sur rounded by provisions so offensive, that it would be impossible ever to mould it into a good measure— that it ought not to be allowed to go into committee, but shoul Ibe defeated on the threshold. Among those who held this opinion was the great leader of the Liberal party, Mr. Gladstone, of whom I will only say in passing that I do not believe that there is one single member of the Liberal party who will dispute for one moment that he is their only fitting and possible leader. (Applause.) I ven tured to hold a different opinion as to the merits of this bill. Household suffrage had been taught me in my political catechism more than thirty years ago by Lord Durham. For a period almost equally long I had advocated it here and on the hustings to our neighbouring Beverley, which place, as many of you may recollect, was my politi cal cradle, and where I received kindness which 30 years have done nothing towards effacing. (Ap plause.) Household suffrage had to me a sort of magic sound. The fortifications which a timid Tory ism still sought to raise against this advance of de mocracy were so weak that I did not believe for one moment in any serious intention of defending them. The Chancellor of the Exchequer also, as we all heard, promised, with an earnest sincerity which I at least could not understand, that if his bill was allowed to go into committee, he was anxious to take the whole house into his councils, and to make every reasonable concession to their wishes. For these reasons I felt the strongest confidence that Lord Derby's bill might be and would be made a very valuable measure, and I determined as far as I had the power to assist it, that it should go into committee, and that it should there receive a fair hearing. (Applause). A great number of the most earnest Liberals in the House of Commons were of the same opinion as myself, and fifty good Radicals met in the tea-room of the House of Commons, and the number would have been doubled if any efforts had been made to procure concerted action. You have no doubt frequently read - in the newspapers of late that Mr. So-and-so, in addressing his consti tuents, defended his conduct in going with the tea room party. lam not here to defend my conduct in that particular. On the contrary, I took no in- significant part in that movement, and I look upon it as a cause of congratulation and triumph. (Ap plause.) The aim and the action of that party were only to procure for the Government bill a fair hear ing in committee, in the belief that it might be moulded into a measure conferring greater power on the people than they were likely to attain under any other circumstances. They made their opinions known through a deputation to Lord Russell and Mr. Gladstone. Their advice was taken. The bill did go into corn m'ttec. It was fairly heard iu committee; it was altered, and it was very greatly amended, and it came out the great Reform Bill of 1857, the start- ing point of a new era in the constitutional history. (I fear.) And there the matter ends, except that if the people, after thanking themselves, which I ad mit they have the first right to do, have any spare gratitu(le left for others, they will do well to bestow it on the members of the tea-room party. (Cheers.) Let it not, however, be supposed for a moment that I look upon this act as perfect. Could it well be ex pected that so great a work should in so short a time come forth smooth and polished everywhere as a statue from the hands of a sculptor? One great work at least remains, for the coming year, I mean a law to prevent corrupt practices at elections. This subject has been carefully considered early iu the year, by a committee of the House of Commons— and I expect much and immediate fruit from their labours. I shall have some suggestions to make myself, and that one favourite suggestion of mine will be adopted among other very stringent provisions, namely, that henceforth every man con victed of taking or giving a bribe will be incapaci tated for ever. Not for five years, not for 10 or 20 years, but incapacitated for ever from sitting in Parliament, or from voting at Parliamentary elec tions. There are very many of you who look to the ballot as the best cure for electoral corruption. (Applause.) It will certainly do something—it will do much, but it will not do every thing. A more stringent law will al.o be re quired. I, as you know, have voted for the ballot, ever since you sent me to the House of Commons ; indeed, speaking from memory, I believe I have never yet missed a division on that subject. But I say to you of the ballot, as I have said before, if you wish it, and are really determined to have it, do not trust to me or any one else, but obtain it for yourselves. Members of Parliament are but the reflection of your opinions. Choose men who share your views, and your business is done. I see some other imperfections in the act itself. Do you desire the rating clauses—(loud cries of "No ") —the inconvenience of which has no doubt already made itself felt ? If so, the matter is in your hands. Hitherto the attainment of your wishes has been a task of great difficulty, but henceforth it will be comparatively easy, and the voice of the people, which formerly had but a feeble utterance, will now make itself heard without an effort. (Applause.) And in this lies the great value of the Reform Bill of 1866. The other great subject with which the Reform Act has dealt has been handled very im perfectly. I mean the redistribution of seats. (Hear, hear.) And I have always been of opinion (and I said so when I last addressed you in Sep tember or October last year) that this was a work that should be left for the next parliament. But whether this be so or not, to have tried for anything more last session would have been to have risked a very valuable franchise ; but which, once safe, brings everything else in its wake. (Applause.) Be sure that on the whole our business has been well and honestly done. And yet I constantly hear the cant phrase, "A condemned House of Commons." Condemned ! Who condemns it? Why, this last act is its triumphant vindication, and is the best proof of its honesty and of its usefulness, and comes as a crowning act of thirty-five years of legislation, and the best, the wisest, and the most beneficent act within the record of constitutional history—(loud applause)—a legislation almost en tirely directed to the well-being of the largo masses of the country—thirty-five years, mind you, during which time England has increased in numbers, in wealth, and intelligence beyond any precedent. And thanks to whom ? Why, to the courage and wisdom of the reformed Houses of Commons; and may those who come after us do better stiff. But if everything was so right, what occasion was there for any change ? This was a very natural question, and one which was very urgently insisted on by Mr. Lowe, and by others who would have wished us to stay where we were. (Hear, hear.) Let me see if I can answer that ques tion. I am not about to discuss the ab stract right of a man claiming as a birthright the possession of the franchise, but very few will deny that a man has at least a right to be well governed. The object of good government is the well-being and contentment of the people. However wise your laws may be, however well they may be admini stered, Government have failed in this great object if the people are not contented. The people were not contented. They had gradually increased in wealth and intelligence, and were desirous for a more direct participation in the legislation of the country ; and it was right that their demand should be considered as soon as it became notorious and unmistakable. (Great applause.) In this last con sideration I am disposed to find a solution of the great puzzle how it has come to pass that a very radical Reform Bill has been passed by the Tory party. In the hour of our triumph at least we may afford to be generous, and to give to our opponents credit for the same honesty of intention which we professed ourselves. (Cheers.) lat le tst am not disposed to join in an indiscriminate abuse of the Tory party, and any charges of bad faith, aban donment of principle, and so forth. (Cheers.) The great bulk of a party merely follow their leaders, and they can do no better. It is with the leaders that we have to deal ; and let us see how their case stands. Every party likes being in office better than being in opposition, and so far as my expe rience goes in this respect we are very much alike. But if the leaders of the Tory party were now here among you, I make no doubt that very many of them would tell you we always believed that it would be better to leave the constitution where it was. They would probably tell you more. They would probably go so far as to say, what is more, we say so still. Right or wrong, the people de manded large constitutional changes, and they de manded them in a voice to which no wise states man could be deaf. When it was so perfectly clear to us, we believed that it would be better to do the work thoroughly than by some half measure to leave it, may be for years, simmering through the country, a constant source of irritation, and a stoppage of other business of great, if not of equal, importance. Perhaps it is no busi ness of mine to state the case of my oppo nents. I think, however, that it is so fair a case, and I feel so large a debt of gratitude to them for having carried a measure which we Radicals never could have carried for ourselves, that I at least am determined to keep a civil tongue in my head, and I am not disposed to look a "gift horse" in the mouth. What are we to expect from our new constituencies ? Why, the good sense and energy of Englishmen, an honest pride in the new power which they will shortly possess, and some sense of the responsibility which that new power has cast upon them. (Cheers.) Why should it not be so ? There are as good fish in the sea as ever came out of it. (Hear, and laugh ter.) Wby we have always said, for years past, that we could find as good constituencies outside the electoral pale as within it. Did we mean what we then said ? If not, more shame for us. But, if we did mean it. away with all silly fear that the inte rests of England are about to suffer, because may be double the number of her sons have a direct voice in their regulation. Many people tell me that large numbers of our new voters will be too ignorant to understand the responsibility which you have thrown upon them. Let their triumphant answer to this charge be, as I venture to prophesy it will be, to send to St. Stephen's a House of Commons pledged immediately and fearlessly to undertake the great work of national education. (Loud applause.) This subject is far too wide for me to enter on it to night, but it will be a subject of interest, not only within the walls of Parliament, but throughout the whole country, for some, I hope not long, years to come, until the work is done, as we always do our work at last, thoroughly and well. (Applause.) I shall look upon an early and general agitation in this direction as the best and most convincing proof that we have done well and wisely. For the future I have no fear. I have great hope. (Cheers.) And there is no reason in the prayer with which I shall now conclude that the House of Commons elected under the new order of things may not be less mindful of the honour of England and of the wellbeing of her people than have been those who have preceded them since the Reform Bill of 1832. (Loud cheers.) Mr. NottwooD then addressed the meeting. Ile agreed with Mr. Clay that the great measure of re form which they had just passed would be the open ing of a new page in the constitutional history of the country, yet deeply regretted that in the session of 1861; the Conservative party, aided and abetted by certain malcontents on their own side of the house, prevented the passing of Lord Russell's measure—a measure in which there were no attempts at restric tions, checks, or counterpoises, like those of the Tory bill when first introduced. Mr. Norwood claimed credit for the Liberals rather than the Go vernment for the success of the cause of reform, and criticised rather sharply the vacillating mode adopted by the latter in the early stages of the bill. They only moved because they were compelled to move, and, he considered, treated the house more like a debating society than the British House of Cow- THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, OCTOBER 25, 1867. mons. The Liberal party might very well have pro posed a vote of no confidence, and dismissed them, but their love for the one great principle of the bill —household suffrage—constrained them not only to forego such a course of procedure, but to do all they could to get it into committee, where it might be amended. In effecting this the tea room meeting had the lion's share, and he congratulated his colleague and himself for the part they honestly took in con nection with that meeting. He was glad that the voting papers bad been abandoned, because he be lieved that such a practice would have been the most powerful incentive to bribery and corruption imagi nable. Mr. Norwood also referred to other objec tionable clauses in the Conservative bill as it origin ally stood, and which had been removed, and instanced the lodger franchise as a great improvement intro duced by the Liberals. lie hoped to see further im provements as regards the ratepaying clause and the redistribution of seats. On the whole, Mr. Norwood considered the Reform Bill one for which they had cause to be thankful. He concluded amidst the most deafening cheers. A vote of thanks to the members for their attend ance was carried by acclamation. question behind this as to the importance of giving to those large masses of the population which con tributed so largely to the wealth and prosperity of the country their fair share of the representation. The measure that has passed is not merely with re gard:to burghs, but also with regard to those other classes, a large and liberal measure, which I think we ought to regard with satisfaction as one which was imperatively called for, and in regard to which we may rejoice that it has passed. I will not contend however, gentlemen, that as regards this question it is one to which we ought to attribute any great importance in a party sense. As regards this great county, I throw myself on the generosity of those to whosepolitical enfranchisement my exertions have I think contributed insomesmall degree. As regards a great county like this, I have not the smallest doubt as to what may be the general expression of opinion ; but we cannot deny, when we are enjoy ing a lower occupation franchise, and a lower fran chise with regard to value, that this is a qualification which is in no small degree liable to abuses, against which, even as regards the English boroughs in 1832, safeguards were introduced and established to prevent those abuses as to the creation of faggot votes, and from which I think many prudent and far-seeing statesmen are inclined to apprehend some risk. (Hear, and applause.) You may be aware that in the late session I endeavoured to draw the atten tion of Parliament to this particular question. I had, as you may remember, some " sporting" votes, in which I gained a majority every evening, and lost my motion by one on the following day —so nicely balanced was public opinion in the House of Commons on this question ; and I fairly admit that if this question merely referred to large county constituencies, like those which exist in Eng land, there would be some reason in the strong objections with regard to my proposal, that it would have a disfranchising effect on many well en titled to the franchise. But when this question comes on for consideration, as it must, when we have to consider the representation of Scotland, it will be again a question fairly under the consideration of Parliament how far it may not be imperative to introduce some safeguards with regard to residence, such as those at which I aimed. These I think most essential when you are coming to deal with small constituencies like many of those counties in Scotland ; unless, indeed, Parliament is prepared to take a far more decided line, and to enter upon a course of doubling up some of those petty counties, which, without the adoption of some safeguards such as I aimed at, will ultimately end in being nominee counties in the hands of great proprietors. (Hear, and applause.) We aro really passing through a great revolution, and it is one that is not yet accomplished. It is one in which there is much remaining to be done, and in which you have still a right to expect the vigilance of your representatives in Parliament. But, apart from the details to which I have alluded, I wish you on the present occasion to take, for a moment, a broader view of this ques tion. Although there may be undoubted defects in the measure passed, you will consider it as a ques tion of Ithe great middle classes, as well as of the working classes' emancipation—as one calculated to give their proper weight to those great elements of national strength, such as the great county I have the honour to represent, and which principles must, in their ultimate course, tend to the recognition of the rights of Scotland in Parliament. I think, when we regard the question from this point of view— when we think how important it was to give con tentment to those who felt their long and unjust exclusion from the representative system, you will rejoice on the whole with me in the passing of this great measure, which I hope may prove some last ing settlement of this question. A vote of confidence in the hon. member closed ,he proceedings. MR. CA YE, M.P., ON WAR AND AGRI- CUTLURE. SID3fOUTII, Wednesday. The Right Hon. S. Cave, ALP., presided at the annual meeting of the Sidmouth Agricultural So ciety last evening. In proposing " The Army and Navy," Mr. Cave said that as a member of the Government he was deeply grieved at the necessity of the expedition to Abyssinia. It was one which could reflect no credit upon us, and might possibly do a great deal of mischief. The mere fact that money would have to be spent in so unsatisfactory a way was in itself a reason why every member of Government must look with the greatest possible regret at it. At the same time, it was a necessity in which he believed the whole country acquiesced. It was said the other day by Lord Stanley in the House of Commons that the chances were that, even if we got back the six men whom we purposed libe rating, we should leave 600 men in Abyssinia. That was extremely probable, still that was not the ques tion. It was not the result of the war, but the prestige and credit of the country that the Govern ment had to look to—whether it should be said all over the world that our subjects were in captivity and we dared not release them. There could be no doubt that if the country lost its prestige, if it was insulted and threatened with impunity, everything in the country, agricultural and commercial, must r were greatly Ile believed the dan gersin d end i fft s u c u ff l e t r i esof therefrom. w exagge rated. He had the authority of Sir Henry Rawlin son for saying that Abyssinia was far from being unhealthy; that it was one of the healthiest coun tries in the world. The expedition was carefully organised, and put under the command of one of the best officers in the service ; and there could be no doubt that our army would show themselves "Serene amid alarms, Unshakable in faith, invincible in arms." (Applause.) The Right Hon. CHAIRMAN, in giving " Success to the Association," referred to agricultural statis tics, which, he said, bad fallen like a live shell among agriculturists in many parts of Eng land. They had not excited as much alarm in the county of Devon as in many other counties. Devon had sent in more complete returns than any other county. According to the returns, which would be shortly published, this year there were in Devon 42,000 acres more under cultivation than last year; there were also 6,000 more horned stock, 95,000 more sheep, and 8,000 more pigs. No doubt this was owing to the more complete returns, and that was not really the increase indicated. Nothing could be more absurd than a reluctance to send in these returns, than which nothing could be more valuable to the country. The farmers feared that the returns would cause their rents and taxes to be raised, but that was a delusion ; to avoid making them was like the ostrich hiding its head in the sand, fancying that nobody could sec it. It used to be said that crime increased as corn increased in price, but he did not think that statement was borne out by facts. No doubt, however, the better people lived the better they were in other respects. Ile had just received some returns of the most interesting character. They were returns of the importations of various kinds of agricultural produce during the last 15 years. Of stock, the number imported had increased from 100,000 to 238,000 ; sheep, from 230,000 to 798,000 ; wheat and wheat flour, from 17,000,000 to 28,000,000 cwts. ; barley, from 2,000,000 to 8,000,000 cwts. ; oats, from 3,000,000 to 9,000,000 cwts. ; eggs, from 108,000,000 to 438,000,000. Of articles of consumption, sugar had increased from 281 b. to 381 b. per head. This was an enormous increase. Tea had increased from 21b. to 3}lb. per head. Nothing tended so much to keep down speculation ; nothing tended so much to keep down consumption in every article of com merce, in agriculture, or manufacture, and to keep prices on a good remunerative level as well-spread information. No doubt prices got up in consequence of ignorance and the supposition that there would be a great searcity in the market. During the period named horned stock bad increased in price from £l2 to £lB a head ; sheep from 30s. to 50s. Corn, on the other hand, had steadily fallen, showing that we had greater chance of growing cattle than we had of growing corn. It was now much more difficult to import, without risk, animals from other countries than it was to import corn. The in crease in the prosperity of other countries enabled them to consume more cattle, and every year Eng land had to go further east to het her cattle, the supply being exhausted in the nearer countries. The English farmer had little to fear from competition in foreign cattle, but he had a good deal to fear in the competition in foreign corn. Great strides had lately been made in agriculture in all the countries of Europe; he had noticed the improvement, par ticularly during his recent travels on the Continent. A good deal had lately been said about women being employed in agriculture, and, without ex pressing an opinion on the subject, he would men tion that lately prizes were offered in the depart ment of Loire, France, for ploughing, and the principal prize was carried off by a girl, who wore no crinoline nor chignon—(laughter)—and who beat seven strong agricultural labourers. In con clusion, the right hon. gentleman dwelt on the good achieved by agricultural societies, and advised them to discuss such subjects as those which he had brought under their notice. SIR E. COLEBROOKE A 7 LANARK. On Tuesday Sir Edward Colebrooke, M.P. for the county, addressed his constituents in the As sembly-rooms, Lanark. Major Brown, who was called to preside, in a sentence introduced the hon. member. Sir EDWARD COLEBROOKE said—l think you will agree with me that the state of the country, and the events which have recently taken place in Parlia ment, make it very important that there should be some interchangeof opinion between the constituent bodies in this country and those who have the diffi cult task of representing them in Parliament. But I have asked you, gentlemen, to attend this meeting to-day—one which in any circumstances is justified —considering that the present Parliament is a doomed one, and that in the course, probably of one year, I shall be called to render an account to this great county of my conduct. Further, I think this meeting is called for, considering that we are now passing through a great political revolution, and also considering the extraordinary circumstances under which it has taken place. We have passed, in the late session of Parliament, a bill involving very momentous changes, and regarding which I think no person who watches the signs of the times can doubt that there is considerable perplexity in the minds of the people of this country—not merely of common ordinary politicians like myself, and many of those I see around me—but even of those occupying a high position in the country. It is useless to deny that the great change we have in troduced has not been followed by those remark able rejoicings and expressions of satisfaction which accompanied the great change in the year 1832, except so far as regards the great Conservative party, - which seems with respect to this question to be somewhat off its balance in the extraordinary circumstances in which it is placed. But with regard to those who are watching these events, we may appeal to the fact that even Lord Russell—a very stout politician, one who has a strong confidence in the full development of a representative feeling in this country—has ex pressed his opinion that this is not a case in which he for himself felt inclined to join in the exultation which has been manifested. Even such a pretty strong politician as he has expressed the opinion in Parliament that the goal to which we were apparently arriving—household suffrage—was one which we might reach by degrees. Even the Prime Minister of the country has, with respect to what has taken place in the past session, declared to his followers, and repeated the expression, that he for one considers it in some measure " a leap in the dark." I think you are entitled to call for some explanation from your member in the singular posi tion in which this country is placed ; especially when we consider that this great change has been introduced under circumstances of unexampled calm —without any of that collision between classes that forces agitation, such as has, on former occasions, inaugurated great political changes, but that it has passed under respectful remonstrances on the part of those who claim to be admitted to the franchise, which, I think, entitled them to the fair considera tion of Parliament. But I think it is impossible for us to measure the causes which have produced this great change without casting our thoughts back for one moment—and for one brief moment—to the events of 1832. Now, with regard to that great settlement, I for myself consider it to be one which, in its broad outlines, it is desirable should be main tained ; one which, in its origin, when passed, was suited to the circumstances of the country ; one which has been attended with the unexampled pros perity of this country, and which has confirmed the impression of the country in its favour. But it cannot be denied that this settlement laboured under the defect that it drew too tightly the line which separated the middle classes from the working classes ; that it was framed too exclusively under the view of giving the Government of the country to the middle classes ; and that it left behind it a soreness of feeling on the part of those who were excluded, which found its expression in the Chartist movement, in frequent agitations, and in that sepa tion between different classes in this country which, in itself, impressed largely all who took an earnest interest in the political condition of the country, that though it might be staved off for a time, and though we might escape the effects of this uneasy condition, yet it was ono which, unless it were timely met, might ultimately lead to that ugly rush of which we heard so much. Now, for myself, I admit fairly to you that this is a ques tion which has for many years impressed strongly all the leading persons in the country as to the im portance of the change. It is more than 15 years since the necessity was recognised on the part of all the great Liberal leaders, combined with all those who represent the people's opinions in Parliament. It is nearly 10 years since it was recognised even by the Conservatives themselves. But, gentlemen, for myself I am ready to confess that my change of opinion in this respect has been a slow one. When I first had occasion to come before this great con stituency, I for one fairly admitted the difficulties that belonged to this question ; that, looking to the state of the burgh constituency, it would have been far more desirable, if we possibly could, to enlarge our franchise rather in a lateral direction than to enter upon a question of lowering the franchise in a way calculated to increase largely the dangers to which we were exposed. And I for one freely admit that the dangers I apprehended are not of that cha racter which would imply any great democratic change in the constitution of this country ; inasmuch as we know from experience that in a large number of the constituencies of the country there does exist a mass of indifference with regard to great political questions which we know, when exposed to corrup tion, has ou more than one occasion been the grave of representative government in its largest and widest sense. I think these are not grounds for deny ing their privileges to men of education and indepen dent feeling, as we know there are in this class ; nor any reason why, on account of this defective class, they should be excluded from the representation. Did I not feel strongly convinced that the better elements so predominated that we might safely proceed in the course of a large extension of the franchise in this direction, I for one would not have given my vote for the measure which has now passed. But this is not the whole question. I think for myself that this question of the emancipation of the working classes has occupied—l won't say a too large—but a dis proportionate share of the attention of the public mind ; for though the question as regards the great counties was dismissed in Parliament in the course almost of a single night, yet it involved questions to which I have always attached the greatest import ance, and regarding which 'think it is in the highest degree important that Parliament should take a large and liberal view. It was impossible, in my opinion, to maintain that high qualification for the occupa tion franchise in counties, which, even as regards the agricultural subjects, was too high ; but, as re gards the many large towns not included in any burgh or system of burghs, it excluded a great part of the population from having their fair weight in the representation of this country. There was a COL RT OF COMMON COUNCIL. Yesterday a meeting of the Common Council was held at Guildhall, the Lord Mayor (Sir Thos. Gabriel) presiding, for the despatch of business. Sir John Thwaites (the chairman of the Metropo litan Board of Works) was present during the sitting, and occupied a seat upon the aldermen's bench. THE GUILDHALL. A letter was read from Mr. E. Woodthorpe, the district building surveyor, calling on the Court to remove the temporary saloon in front of Guildhall, erected on the occasion of the visit of the Sultan, assigning as reasons its inflammable character, and that he, as the district surveyor, might be re lieved from all responsibility in respect to it. The communication was referred to the general purposes committee. THE COAL MARKET. The:Chairman of the Coal, Corn, and Finance Committee (Mr. H. A. Isaacs) brought up and moved the adoption of a report from them, recom mending that the returns of coal brought to Lon don should in future be published under the con trol of that committee, and that £4OO a year be granted to Mr. James Revat Scott, the clerk and registrar of the coal market, as an equivalent in lieu of the profits arising therefrom, which profits during the last year he said had amounted to £413. Mr. COCKERELL bare testimony to the public value which the returns in question had acquired in a statistical sense from the skill and pains exerted in their preparation by Mr. Scott, the registrar ; but he submitted that it would not consist with the dignity of the corporation to sell such returns at a profit, and that if it undertook their publication it must give them away. Mr. H. Lowman Taylor dwelt upon the fact that Mr. Scott, as registrar, already received a salary of £730 from the corporation, irrespective of the pro fits arising from the publication of the returns. He criticised in pungent terms the report of the com mittee recommending the proposed change, insisting that the report had been prepared by Mr. Scott himself, and that the proposal was one of the most transparent jobs ever sought to be perpetrated, and that it had been propounded to the Court for their adoption in a barefaced and shameless manner. The LORD MAYOR (interposing) called Mr. Taylor to order, ruling that the expressions he had just used were not justifiable. Mr. TAYLOR, resuming, said if he had said any thing out of course he would withdraw it, and call the recommendation a "little job." (A laugh.) He remarked upon the circumstance that at one time the profits from the publication, as an equiva lent for which it was now proposed to allow Mr. Scott, the clerk and registrar, £4OO a year, did not exceed £l3O, and he said that Mr. Scott employed the staff in his office to get up the information em bodied in the returns, and pockemd all the emolu ments himself. Ho moved an amendtneat to the effect that the Court could not recognise as part of the salary of the clerk and registrar of the coal market the proceeds arising from the publication of lists for the information of the coal trade ; but were, nevertheless, of opinion that whatever bene fit accrued from the publication of any list or in formation to the trade, the business of which was performed in the office, should be apportioned to the staff in proportion to the amount received, and that no officer should appropriate the entire net proceeds to his own use. Mr. HARRIS commented upon the public services rendered for many years to the corporation in the management of the coal duties by Mr. Scott, the registrar, and by which they had been largely aug mented. Mr. LkWLEY also in the same spirit observed upon the additional duty which had devolved upon the registrar, consequent upon changes in the collection of the coal duties, especially on coals brought to London by rail, which rendered necessary extra ordinary vigilance. Mr. Deputy Far hold that the question was not the manner in which the registrar discharged his duties, but whether the corporation was to enter on what he (Mr. Fry) called the objectionable course of publishing the returns in question at a profit. He counselled the Court to allow the present arrange ment to remain as it stood, reminding them that Mr. Scott could not be prejudiced by its continuance, seeing that it was only through his office of registrar the materials for such returns became available. The motion for commuting the profits from the publication into a fixed sum of £4OO a year, to be paid to the registrar, was strenuously opposed by Mr. De Jersey, and supported by ➢ir. Deputy White and Mr. Medwin, the latter of whom stated that the registrar was content to continue the existing ar rangement if he could be allowed to do so, and The Chairman of the committee read a letter from Mr. Scott to that effect, and stated that he (Mr. Scott) had nothing to do with the proposed change. On a division the amendment of Mr. Taylor was carried by a majority of 22 in a court of 118 mem bers ; but on its being submitted for adoption as a substantive motion, Mr. M'GEoRGE moved an amendment to refer the report of the committee back to them for further consideration as to the duties and emoluments of Mr. Scott, and of the clerks in his office, and also in reference to the details in connection with the pub lication in question. The amendment of Mr. M'George was carried by a large majority. THE COUNTY RATE. Petitions were presented from inhabitants of the wards of Aldgate, Castle Baynard, and Farringdon• without, protesting emphatically against the attempt now in contemplation to impose a county rate on the City of London, as being wholly unnecessary, and which,by increasing the already heavy burdens of taxation sustained by the citizens, would bo a serious grievance to the petitioners. THE CORNIIILL BURGLARY. A petition was presented by Mr. Homer, on the part of Mr. John Walker, watchmaker, of Cornhill, praying that the Court would supplement the grant of £5O by a further sum of £lB9 odd, in considera tion of his losses by the burglary in his premises a few years ago, from the money and property found in possession of the thieves, who were afterwards convicted. The subject underwent some discussion, in the course of which the City Solicitor (Mr. Nelson), replying to a question by Alderman Bosley, said in effect that the money being what was called " felons' goods," resulted to the sheriffs, under a charter of the corporation 200 years old. Mr. BEDFORD wished it to go forth that the cor poration derived no benefit whatever from such money ; that they should be ashamed to receive it ; and that if there was a probable owner of the money they ought if possible to find him. Mr. Alderman DARIN, as one of the sheriffs at the time, said it had been referred to a committee to trace the ownership of the property, and to hand parties who had any reasonable claim to it the amount they could fairly claim. He supported the motion for so referring it, and that, having been carried, the committee diligently inquired as to whom the property belonged, and reported on the subject. Some of it had been handed to those who appeared to have a reasonable claim to it, and the rest fell to the corporation. Ho had never soiled his bands with it. Mr, Alderman BESLEY, as the other sheriff at the time, said he had never touchod a farthing of it, and did not mean to touch it. Eventually, on the motion of Mr. M'GEORGE, it was referred to the law and parliamentary commit tee to examine, and report upon the subject. LORD MAYOR'S DAY. An animated discussion arose as to the character which the civic' pageant from Guildhall to West minster on the 9th November is to assume. Mr. MOREY, a member of the entertainment com mittee who are charged with the duty of making the arrangements, replying to a question, explained that they were divided on the subject, especially with regard to the state coach, and at their last sitting they agreed to refer the matter to the Com mon Council. At the same time, they were dis posed to assent to some modification of the proces sion. The TOWN CLERK, at the request of Mr. Alder man Wilson, read a resolution of the court passed in 1777, in the time of Lord Mayor llalifax, to the effect that the court, taking into consideration that some of the chief magistrates of the City had not then of late used the state coach in going to attend the Courts of Aldermen, Common Council, and Common Hall, desired that in future Lord Mayors use it on the accustomed days. The Town Clerk added that, notwithstanding that resolution, in his time the state coach had not been used on many which were called state occasions, with the excep tion of the 9th of November (Lord Mayor's day), when it had always been used. Mr. GOWER asked the Lord Mayor elect (Mr. Alderman Allen) whether it was his intention to use the state coach or not, on going from Guildhall to Westminster to be presented to the Barons of the Exchequer. Mr. RUDKIN (interposing) submitted that it was not competent for a member of the court to ask such a question, and that the Lord Mayor elect might be left to use his own discretion in the matter. (Hear, hear.) The LORD MAYOR (Sir Thomas Gabriel) re minded the court that there was no motion before it, and that no notice whatever on this subject ap peared on the paper of business. The Lord Mayor Elect (Mr. Alderman Allen) said at the then stage of the discussion, and having regard to the irregular manner in which it has been brought on, he declined to answer the question. (Hear, hear.) Mr. GOITER moved that, in accordance with the resolution of 1777, the Lord Mayor Elect be re quested to use the state coach on the occasion of his going to Westminster on the 9th of November to be presented to the Barons of the Exchequer. The motion was seconded by Mr. DRESSER ROGERS. The Chairman of the City Lands Committee (Mr. STAPLETON) moved as an amendment, " That con sidering the increase of population, trade, and corn. merce, the augmented inconvenience and risk attending the stoppage and diversion of the public streets, and the collection of vast crowds in the thoroughfares of the metropolis consequent on the procession on Lord Mayor's day; looking also to the hindrance to traffic arising from the public works which are in progress at the Holborn Valley, Smithfield, the Mansion House-street, Blackfriars bridge, and elsewhere within the City, this court is of opinion that it is desirable to modify the pro. ceediugs attendant upon the progress of the Lord Mayor to be sworn before the Barons of the Exche quer at Westminster, and that it be left to the Lord Mayor elect and the Sheriffs to use their own unfettered judgment as to the most desirable means of effecting their journey to Westminster on that occasion." (Hear, hear.) Mr. RUDKIN seconded the amendment. Mr. Alderman WILSON regarded all the great hue and cry against the Lord Mayor going in state to Westminster as usual as mere bugbear. A corres pondent of a newspaper he observed, a tradesman in the Strand, reckoned that ho lost £2O on every Lord Mayor's day. If such a person made £2O every quarter of an hour during the six days of the week, all he could say was that he might well afford to suspend operations once a year while the Lord Mayor's procession passed his door. Mr. LAWLEY treated the present opposition to the procession as an exemplification of the monex grubbing spirit of the present day, and reminded the Lord Mayor elect that when he was chosen to office in the Guildhall he said he was a Conserva- tive, and was prepared to maintain the rights and privileges of the Livery. Mr. M'GEoRGE, speaking from experience, said there was little or no business, as a rule, done in the City on Lord Mayor's day, in consequence of the prevailing excitement. It was a well-known fact that bankers' clerks, in particular, scarcely dared to traverse the streets. For himself he never sent money to his banker's on that day, Mr. BEDFORD ridiculed the notion of bankers and merchants memorialising the Lord Mayor elect on the subject, seeing that on this'az on most occa sions the pageant would not go near the quarter in which they mostly carried on business. After some further discussion the amendment of Mr. Stapleton in favour of a modification of the pageant on public grounds was put, and lost on a division by 25 in a court of 57 members, and the original motion, that in accordance with the resolu tion of 1777 the Lord Mayor elect be requested to use the state coach on the forthcoming 9th of No vember, was adopted. The court then adjourned until this day (Friday) at one o'clock, when it will proceed to consider the question of a county rate for the City. THE BOUNDARY COMMISSION. BOROUGH OF SOUTHWARK. Yesterday the Assistant Boundary Commissioners, Major-General Bainbrigge and W. Senior, Esq., barrister-at-law, attended at the Vestry-hall of the parish of St. George-the-Martyr, Southwark, for the purpose of adjusting and fixing the boundaries of that borough. Several gentlemen connected with the borough were present, among whom were Mr. Collinson, who represents the parish of St. George the-Martyr at the Metropolitan Board of Works, and Mr. E. Dresser Rogers. Major-General Bainbrigge remarked that as the borough was surrounded by other boroughs, and as the commissioners had no power to extend or cur tail its boundaries, nothing could be done in that respect. If, however, there were any inaccuracies on the Ordnance map which showed the present boundaries they could adjust them, and thereby make the boundary accurate. Mr. Collinson said the boundaries as laid down on the Ordnance map had always been considered by the district board within the borough, as well as by the Metropolitan Board of Works, as accurate, and those bodies had acted upon them accordingly. He was not, therefore, prepared to point out any inaccuracy ; neither, he believed, were any of the parish officers. General Bainbrigge said he observed that though the borough was pretty well built over, still there were some spaces available for building purposes. Mr. Collinson said there were very few, and one of them, a space of sixty acres, had been appro priated for the Southwark Park. General Bainbrigge said a suggestion had been made by a gentleman at Finsbury, when the com missioners were adjusting the boundaries of that borough, that instead of appropriating one large space for the purposes of a public park, the various smaller places in different parts of the borough should bo appropriated, where people could play at cricket, and such like games, and otherwise enjoy themselves. What did the people of Southwark think of that suggestion ? Mr. Collinson considered the suggestion a good one, but in the borough there were no vacant spaces that could be so appropriated. Some three years ago the Metropolitan Board of Works instituted an inquiry to ascertain whether such spaces could be found in the different metropolitan boroughs, but the result was that few spots were found which could be so appropriated. Mr. Dresser Rogers remarked that though the commissioners could not extend or contract the boundaries, it would be well for election purposes if they could fix such boundaries by a street or road so as to have them well defined. General Dainbrigge said in the present case they could not do that. He believed the borough was composed of whole parishes, and no doubt the boundaries of these were well enough known. Their object in coming there was to ascertain whether there was any objection to, or inaccuracy in, tho present boundary as laid down on the Ordnance map, and finding that there was none there was of course an end of the matter. The proceedings, which occupied a very short [me, then terminated. THE WEST RIDING. On Wednesday, General Sir R. Daeres and Mr. Sergeant 11. Tindal Atkinson, after going round the boundaries of Wakefield, resumed the inquiry re- Ape.eting the division of the West Riding, at Wake field.—Mr. J. C. Yewdall, of the firm of Messrs. David Yewdall and Son; cloth manufacturers, of Calverley and Bramley, and having places of busi ness at Leeds and Eceleshill, gave evidence in favour of East Morley wapentake being added to the nor thern division—in other words, he was in favour of Mr. Beaumont's eastern division.—Mr. John Kaye, of Clayburn West, objected to the Government plan for the north and mid divisions, inasmuch as the former would be handed over to the landowners, and the mid to the manufacturing interest ; but, as to the southern division, be thought in the Govern ment plan there would be a fair and equitable repre sentation of all interests. He objected also to Mr. Thompson's plan, and the plan of Mr. Beaumont ho considered the best and simplest, associating as it did nearly every interest in each division, without giving an undue preponderance to any. Bingley might, f thought desirable, be given to the mid division. —Mr. S. Bruce, barrister, Wakefield, said he con sidered in this matter they should first endeavour to find whether there were any fixed principles that would naturally guide the commissioners ; and here he said they must refer to , the provisions of the 48th section of the recent act. From this it ap peared that it in the division of counties the legal and natural boundaries were to be considered ; and the question was what these were ? He thought that they should, in deciding the matter, consider what had been the course of English law and prece dent. In the Reform Act of 1831 Yorkshire was divided into three constituencies—the North Riding, the East Riding, and the West Riding— and thus the ancient divisions of the county were followed, the only exception being that Ainsty, which belonged to the West Riding, was put in the North. York naturally became the nomination place for the North Riding, and Beverley for the East Riding, and not Hull ; and Wakefield for the West Riding, and not Leeds or Sheffield. These facts, he considered, afforded some guide as to the plan that would be adopted in future. When the riding was divided into north and south similar prin ciples were followed. The wapentake divisions were followed except in one instance, and the two in terests, agricultural and manufacturing, were equally divided. These were the principles that had guided preceding divisions, and the schedule of the act afforded evidence that Parlia ment intended the same principles to guide the divi sion of counties now, but allowing, where the inte. rests of a division really required it, the boundaries of parishes to be taken, instead of those of wapen takes or hundreds. Having regard to this manifest intention of Parliament, he considered the several plans the commissioners had before them, and said that, with regard to the claim of Barnsley to be the nomination place for the southern division, it was simply an attempt to induce the commissioners to reverse ,the decisions and opinions of Parliament. As to the plans for the division of the riding, he considered Mr. Beaumont's preferable to all the rest. The commissioners then adjourned to Sheffield, and stated they would sit on Saturday at Wakefield. COUNTRY IdARKETB. BRISTOL—TituRsDAy. On our market to-day there was a moderate supply of English wheat, which was taken freely at a reduction •f Is to 2s per qr. In foreign wheat, which met with a fair sale, prices were as high as last week. Malting barley hold firm, but not much doing ; grinding sorts scarce, and high currencies were realised. Oats in dull demand, and prices 6d under previous Yates. Beans and peas dull. Indian corn slow, and is lower. MANCIIESTER—niunsDAy. At to-day's market there was a fair supply of English wheat, which sold steadily at a decline of 2s per quartet on the quotations of last week. Foreign declined 6d per cental. The flour trade was moderate, and prices is to 2s per sack less money. Oats were Id per 451bs, and oat meal is per load lower. English beans brought fully the rates of last market. Indian corn held for late rates. BURY ST. EDMUNDS - WEDNESDAY. Tho supply of wheat at this market to-day was good, but little business was transacted. Wheat declined 2s to 35 per qr. In barley there was a decline of 2s per qr, and trade inactive. Beans and peas were dull. Average prices : Wheat, 67s ltd ; barley, 43s bd; oatig, 26s 10Id ; beans, —s Od. BIRMINGHAM—nurnsDAY. Our market this morning was largely supplied with English wheat. There was a slow business done, and last market prices declined is to 2s per qr. Barley was is pet quarter advance. Oats in favour of tho buyer. EDINBURGH-WEDNESDAY. Wheat on the top, 2s Od up average, 3s 4d down• Barley on the top, Is down average, Os 7d down. Oats on the top, is 6d down average, Os 10d down• Beans on the top, 9s Od up Total supply and sales. Wheat B3O qrs sold 617 Barley 2202 qrs sold 2029 Oats 1340 qrs sold 1121 Beans 4l qrs sold 15 Average prices. Wheat, 72s 8d I Oats, 32s 5d Barley, 4os ld 1 Beans 48s 3d Town-made flour sells as follows :—White, 618 Od; Nall superfine, 59s Od ; superfine, 57s Od ; fine, 55s Od. Foreign Mail Packet List. MAILS DUE. &Astralia and New Zealand, ria Sonthamptoa.....Nor. 1 0 • Ditto, YIA Marseilles .....• •.. og• •• • • Nov. 13. Ditto, via Panama •• • . •. . Oot• 2 O • 1 Brazil, Buenos Ayres, and Monte Video Nor. 4. Ditto, by rrenoh packet .. Oot. 22 °ape Verdi, by Brazil paotet ...... , °ape of Good Hope. Asoension. and St. Helena Oct. 2 1 • Mina. Penaag, and Singapore, via Southampton Oct. 2 0 . Ditto, via Marseilles.. .... Falkland Islands ..... Nor. 4 Gibraltar, via Southampton • • Nov. 2. Indla,Tla Southampton Ditto, Via Mansell es ... , Oot. 27. Halts, Egypt, &o, Nov 7. Ditto. Marseilles.. . oos. 21. Mauritius, Cape of Good Hope, and Natal. via Southampton. Nov. 1.2. Ditto, via Mandl les wfoandla lad NOT. Noy. 13. _e ..... Nov. 6 Portugal ;; Nor. 4 . Ditto, by priv tit ship to Oporto ... Ditto ( .11 to Lisbon United Mates, t anada California, &0., by British packet Ditto, by L ultra States packet Ditto di t , t , e"tt York) Ditto dit 0 — Cm York) Ditto ditto hltimore) ....... .... Ditto, by Canacti; npaoket • Oct. West Coast of Africa, Madeira, and Tenoriffo Nor. 3 . West Indies and Pala() (exoept Mexico and Baha mas) Cuba and Mexico.,,Oct. i 9 Bahamas, via New York Nor. 0 . Bermuda, via Halifax Births. PEARSE —On the 23d inst., at The Lodge, Parndon, t h wife of Capt. W. A. R. Pearse, of a son. ROSSLYN- On the 20th inst., at Dysart House, Fife, the Countess of Itosslyn, of a daughter. SWANSTON—On tho 23d inst., at Holly House, Twicken ham, the Ron. Mrs. S wanston, of a son. Marriages. LAWLESS -SAUNDERS —OR tho 24th inst., at St. Go r c. the-Martyr, Southwark, Edward, son of the late E. Lawless, of Philpot-lane, E.C. to Louisa, o ld es t datle ter of Mr. C. Saunders, of Blackman-street Southwarx., PATTISON—ADAMS-011 the 23d inst., at Graham-strfeer, Chapel, Birmingham, Ernest Patlison, Esq., of Lol l "' ot son of S. It. P.,ttison, Esq., of London, to Annie 1110 well, eldest daughter of Thomas Adams, Esti., °I Ivies, Edgbaston. Deaths. BENTHAH—On the 21st inst., at Charlton, Dover, Georg e Bentham, Esq., aged 61. dgo, loms—On the 23d inst., at Minorca House, Weybr i Surrey, George Floris, Esq., aged 51. lollsvm— On the 24th inst., at 37, Gloucester-Plefi Hyde-park, W. A. Forsyth, Esq., late Madras("' Service. (mac- GAINSBOROUGH—On the 23d inst., at Exton Uo use, ham, the Countess of Gainsborough. JO' LEGGE— On the 231 inst., at Stratford-greon, Ess ex, Leggo, Esq., aged 82. WOODHOUSE—On the 21st inst., at Ranolagh Lodge, Fu ham, Thomas 11. Woodhouse, Esq., aged 75. ke" YEARSLEY On the 24th inst., at 13, Bruton-strecu, --r ley-square, John Yoarsloy, Esq., ag©d 31. r London : Printed and Published by WILLIA.III og. of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at Tas SUN 03.1ce, M tv o f Strew", Ln the Precinct of the Se toy, in the o ° nll. ' Middlesex...4'4day, October 25, 1867. Th e t: Rher / Di atio No r , Ditt rN b attali the ZI 84Perb the R 0 at thi s Past 7. NIA A p( cost ed ; ~ brute;; A Adt vAeli f ni r •............... A 11 ( - No w" 81Znor V r( 141 ' Dr risr4ovi! ruk 6 lk e,. 416 4i, 14 43 e t D e p . t 444 t 11 11 7 VF "1 1 0 ' • P p', tnt„t,;.L. tik or tarl tto c ; ‘ , l ••••••< titiT te p Gil Th Z t p 4 et..' I\4 ekji 4L L the Ye 10 % :4, 11 th. orapi 1 44, 41, It 1. 4311. t. 4 A' ♦l Longo R.' Thi Dntlilii It Som e. Sol, by tli R, ( Oh. " Kim 111 A Rt v A Preeh'c PeDaya dteeoui EVEii Eigh t . and v BEG() at ßtal Mr. Aufstir of the uttot Till "nqlia tell a , kiss / Itter r C ARL 110 T1 ~ vl 't RA Privi rcter iad ........___ ORI trrip r ,