The Sun. — London, England, 1841-06-10 00:00:00

EVENING EDITION as that individuals who had not some, views of them would not have suffered their property and goode to re main in those ships upon any idea that circumstances sk osid elter the position in which they were then placed, nod that protection would be afforded them. Was it a ground for coinpensat ion i (env department of the Govern ment of the day itad left that or any part of the world without protection, whereby the property of the country was hostilely seized—was that the ground upon which the :douse would vote public money by way of compensation? flame might be paseed'en such a Government for this net.; but he (the Solicitor-General) did not recollect ever to have heard or read that because protection had not been afforded in some. parts of the world that those who had suffered were to receive compensation by a vote of that House. The complaint that protection had not been afforded had been repeatedly made and brought before the House; but he believed it had never been fol lowed up by a vote of public money for compensation. Another ground urged was that if the House thought fit to grant compensation for the loss sustained by the con fiscation of the debts and goods, that it ought, there .'ore, to do equal justice and to extend compensation to chips and goods. He believed that the House was in flayed to vote such compensation upon very distinct prin ciples—on a public principle, not taken up for the oc casion, but one that was supported by the books and au thorities. After compensation had been afforded to those "who had sustained losses in respect to what he had ad- Terted, it was urged, on the part of the present claim ants, that those individuals had no just claim. If it was true that the confiscation of goods on shore was contrary Jo the law of nations—if that was true, said they, you r e santod compensation when the principle Was not calledre f o for when you made your treaty with Denmark you .made it to the effect that debts should not e recoverable, notwithstanding compensation ; but that statement was never made to the House till long after the compensation was granted by the House. The House granted the compensation on the grounds he had stated, and it was urged by Sir .Tames Mackintosh in the first instance, and that argemsnt was after werds granted byother Hon. Members, twat the country had stipulated' !or the redress. Now, if that argument was well founded, the subsequent stipulation overrode the original claim. In that instance the House, in ei• lowing compensation, acted l c lon a distinct ground, but then it was stated, that though 1,!" , House had granted ,compensation, and though the country .!lad stipulated for the redress, that it could not be maintaineZ.. 4 ; p : nd it was subsequently stated that the subjects of this country did net desire it. Ho (he Solicitor-General) knew not how that might be, but he did know that many had applied for Pe He repeated that the House had never sanctioned the ~ principle on which the present claim was founded, and that the former claim .had been granted on entirely dif ferent grounds. There was another fact which had been stated, and ho apprehended it was one which had made a considerable impression, on the House, and probably wont. far - in indaciug it to accede to the late motion upon .thi,subject ; it, wa s this, that this,country at the time4ict seized Danish property to 4 very great amount ; and ? ttt!an said that as we ,had then possessed ourselves of pro rty amounting to upwards of one million sterling; Chit ssentioners who tad si*red by the acts of hostilities ,ought to be compensated out of thst fund. That argu ment appeared plausible . enough, but:).t appeared to hits, ,*o rest upon precisely-.the , same geOunds as the claim *440 the subjects ,of ,:a country might make for their leleseS they had sustained froth 'ail enemy, while they sought to be indemnified out of the property which the country had got as the fruits of the war. it did not appear to him that the proximity in point of date of the seizure of the Danish to the seizure of the British property in any respect asserted the principle. It was no just ground of compensation that that country, fis the course of its hostilities with another, acquiredpro pert7 of great value—that, certainly, was no ground for putting forward a claim for compensation. Such a prin ciple would lead to very extensive consequences, and very great embarrassment, The Chancellor of the Ex chequer (Lord Althorp) said that these claims not having been made for thirty years afterwards, the fund had been long since exhausted, or if not, that a very small and insignificant sum remained available. Let ,not the House act upon the presumption that that country . had had the benefit of a large surplus amount of pro perty taken from the Danish nation beyond the pay nissnts appropriated to the subject. From his inquiries on t:ie matter, in order to ascertain what was his duty w ith respect to these claims, he had learned that no such fund nos sexisted, and it would be a gross injustice to ecne away Des public money under the erroneous impres sion that such a fund existed. He believed he had stated she various arguments that had been urged in the discus sions that had taken place on the subject. His Hon. and Learned Friend had referred to some authorities which he said sanctioned these payments. If his Hon. and Learned Friend thought there were any such authorities, let him coint them out, for he (the Solicitor-General) had not been able to ascertain that such claims as the present were anywhere mentioned by the law of nations. If the Danish Government, in seizing the goods and ships, were in the course of legitimate warfare—if they com mitted that infraction according to the laws and rules by which the civilized nations conducted their warfare, then what was there in that case whereby, according to ge tters! principles, the subject' of this country were entitled to compensation at the public expense for losses sustained in the course of legitimate warfare? Nobody had ever attempted to deny that the warfare was legitimate on the nart of the Danes. He heard the echo of the word legi . e is nate, Probably an impression existed in the quarter frOssi ich that sound emanated that the warfare cou ld not he gitimate on the part of the Danes if that war fate wits induced by a wrongful act on the part of our ekt i. Govern nt. Tho question was, had the Danes, in seizing the property, committed any act by which the claim of those who suffered was justified. Many persons differed as to the propriety of the act of this Government in commencing hostilities, but nobody had denied that the Dane* were justified, if they thought fit, Ls seizing the property of the subjects of this countrr. It was of great im p ortance when thset Kruse voted large sums of money as compensation to persons standing in a situation analagous to that of the present petitioners, that the act should be intelligibl on general principles. The House should not, in it lutes, give rise to the probability of an opinion arising, that it was influenced by favour to this or that class of sasrsons. The vote should be given on broad intelligible Iteiblic principles. , He was satisfied that if that came to iYe distinctly stated, his Hon. Friend, who advocated the cause of those petitioners, would perceive that there was no just foundation for those claims. He (the Solicitor- General), therefore, had called the attention of the House to the facts' out of which those claims arose, and he cer tainly failed to discover any ground upon which this House would vote compensation in the present instance, which could not be advanced by any set of persons who might suffer by war. He did not think that those claim ants suffered as much as the persons from whom Russia had made its immense seizure. He did think it would oho difficult to prove that the claims of those who suffered liy the Russian seizure stood higher titan the present elaiins. For it was more than doubtful that the Rus piens acted according to the laws of war when they seized the property he alluded to. He trusted. the House would address its attention to those ge neral public grounds on which the claims of compensation was made, and say whether it was one --which they could impartially and honestly grant. He would be the last man to stand in the way of compensa- Ition, if those individuals could sustain a well-founded riaim. Ile thought no fresh grounds. existed, and he 'hoped that the House would perceive that the first reso lution adopted with respect to the claim, whereby it was rejected, was a fitting one ; and that the last arose from :ome such cause as the eloquence of the gentlemen who advocated the claim. As there were no fresh grounds for sustaining the claim, he hoped the House would op. Tose going into Committee on the question. Sir STRATFORD CANNING, who was almost in tidible, said he wished to say a few words on this ques ran. Ile considered the frequent discussions of this ques ion and the votes to which the House had previously some respecting it, was a sufficient justification fir the ?resent notion—(llear, hear)—for the House had already - -cissed three subsequent votes on this subject, not in pre rims Parliaments, but during the existence of the pre .nt House of Commons.—(Hear, hear.) Without re- , . assign to any previous knowledge of the-proceedings lie considered he was at least bound to support the votes he *tad given. After the House had gone this length it was efor the Government to consider whether there were any circumstances such as would not warrant them to take - hose steps which could carry the votes of the House into effect. As on those former occasions he had voted ‘eitli the majority ho should vote with his Learned Friend Cresswell) on the present occasion. He was well .we:•e of the distinctifin the Hon. and Learned Solicitor- Genefal had drawn between these claims, as related to ,aie part of the property concerned, and those which re• 'fated to the other part. If he rightly understood the 'Hon. and Learned Gentleman he admitted that the 'former claims rested on this ground, that the Danes in confiscating this property had not exceeded the law of 'nations. He was perfectly well aware of the pe. - cellar relations between England and Denmark, at the breaking out of the war in the year 1807. That principle, of fairly applied to other cases, left this case an exception. With regard to the time he did not think the Hon. and Learned Gentleman's argument was valid, for the other , e'aims that were satisfied-were not brought forward until .31) years after they had accrued. It depended entirely )te en the circumstances under which that war commenced, -ed he must be allowed to observe that this being estab- I: :l e d all that had been said about the danger of inteo .Leing bad precedents was set aside. It would appear • that en that occasion the Danish Government had fiiought it right to exercise what, in the opinion of the ft , n.:and Learned Gentleman opposite, was a legitimate ,c.!: ; 0t, and they appeared to have exercised it with every to maintain pacific relations with us. We had shown our :p:eville intentions by the armament we had sent out, , -zo as to Like away from the Danes all excuse for resist ence. It appeared that no embargo was made in this country till long after the squadron was withdrawn, and the merchants might have presumed that negotiations in the presence of so large a squadron would have had a peaceable effect, or at least have sufficed for their protec aion.—(Hear.}' These circumstances justified his Hon. Friend in bringing forwaid the subject. There were ,treat peculiarities in this case---peculiarities so great as to reikler persons concerned entitled to indemnity, to ' which, niteler other circumstances, they would not be en illed.—(Hes.r.) If it were not for these extrema pie curairities, he should be of the first to recognise the ,:.ng . cr of acceding to these claims; but he felt that he was., ”stified in giving his veto for this motion. Whaterer mi7ht be • their ulteri9r proceedings, he thought the fey 444 ;beady must say I have not been able to discover any novelty or discrimination in the remarks which he has addressed to the House.) It is now nearly twenty years since I first took part in these discussions. On the first class the justice of the claim was still more manifest, but the same arguments which have been used by the Learned Solicitor-General were urged against the first class. The House of Commons, however, decided in favour of the claim. The same arguments were adduced against the second class ; and yet the House of Commons agreed to the vote. The same arguments have been brought against the third class ; the matter has undergone con siderable discussion, and three votes have been taken upon it. Sir, I am sorry that the lion. and Learned Gentleman should have attempted to induce the House not to accede to this motion, by stating that the funds received from Denmark are now exhausted. We know full well that 1,200,0001. came into the British Exche quer, and of this sum not more than 600,000/. has been paid. The interest alone would have doubled that amount.—(Hear, hear.) From the circumstance that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman has resorted to that thrt adbare argument, I infer that he is conscious that he has no other to act upon.--(Hear.) Let us not forget the circumstance which attended the commencement of the war. The Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and his predecessors in office, have contended that by admitting this claim you would be establishing a dangerous precedent The war against Denmark was commenced in the most atrocious manner. Nothing but overpowering fear on the part of the Bri tish Government—political feelings we have nothing to do with, or dealing with individual interests—could have induced them to adopt the course which they did. I quite agreed with the Hon. and Learned Gentleman that when the Government had undertaken an expedition which they supposed to be necessary for the interest of Great Britain, it would have been improper to answer inquiries- 1 ' Are we going to war or not ? May we trade or may we not ?" If the Government had given such information they would undoubtedly have risked the ' success of the expedition.—(Hear, hear.) Ido think that the circumstances which have been mentioned by the Solicitor-General, circumstances whieh place the claimants, in this ease, in a peculiar position, and make it almost impossible any similar case should occur—con sidering what Parliament has already done, the long and elaborate discussion which has taken place, and remem* bering that with reference to dates and facts the op position had been found defective I for although I do not recollect the whole of the dates alluded to by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, I think the Hon. Baronet who has spoken, stated very correctly that many, if not all of the seizures were made at a time when British subjects had A right to expect security—under all these circum stances, I must say that it would only be an act of justice to these individuals, who have suffered for so many years, that we should atiast compensate them as far as we can for the losses to, which they have been subjected. I hold theie-to , be entitled to receive both the principal and the interest, but is the principal only is concerned, let us grant one part of the justice to whieh they are' entitled. At any rater 1 shall certainly vote, as I have - done, for going into Committee, in order that justice may be ob tained by these individualsi : --(Hear, hear.) • _ The CHANCELLOR of the-FACREQUMR- said the was rather disposed teconsent-to•the appointment of the Committee than -to :divide, the'Heuse on the _question. ge,was determined , that , the inatterishould ',come fairly More the House. The parties had before stated that they did not go for the money, but fir the principle. It was now made a question of actual money. He did not think he need discuss the question et length as it had been exhausted in the arguments of his Hon. and Learned Friend the Solicitor-General, who had, he should say, completely demolished the case of the Hon. and Learned Member for Liverpool. He should com plain that he had not.on a former occasion been treated with courtesy by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman. He had applied to him when the question came last under the consideration of the House to defer the discussion in the absence of his Hon. and Learned Friends the Attor- L ney and Solicitor-Generals, considering that the debate could not well be conducted without them, the one of them being absent upon business, and the other from ill ness • but the Hon. and Learned Gentleman refused to , accede to the request, and he thought he had a right to complain of that. He would not, however, oppose the motion for goinginto Committee, but he would take the opportunity of stating his views on the bringing up of the Report. Mr. CRESSWELL was surprised that the Right Hon. Gentleman had complained of his want of personal cour tesy towards him in a former debate. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—Yes, personal. Mr. CRESSWELL--Will the Right Hon. Gentleman tell me the date ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that on the occasion of the last debate, on his asking the Hon. and Learned Gentleman to postpone it, in the ab sence of the Law Officers of the Crown, the Hon. and Learned Gentleman told him that he would not, and that he thought he was justified in sot granting the request, He had, acoordingly, brought forward the question, which left him (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) under the inconvenience of answering, in the absence of his Hon. and Learned Friends. Mr. CRESSWELL said that he had not the slightest recollection of the occurrence ; but if it had taken place he thought he was perfectly justified in taking such a course, because the subject had been argued on two oc casions before. It had been argued under the Right Hon. Gentleman's predecessor, by the Attorney and Solicitor-Generals ; and he had himself at that mo ment• a not* of the arguments they had used. He could not, therefore, understand why he should have been called on to put off a motion of the kind from day to day, and from night to night, while a number of per sons, who had entrusted him with their case, were look ing for justice. If, therefore, he had acted as was said, he was justified in doing so.—(Hear, hear.) But after the House had twice affirmed the princtpla of the-motion, and when increasing majorities had declared in favour of its principle, he should say the Right Hon. Gentleman had no mason to expect that he (Mr. Cresswell) should postpone its consideration in the abseiice of the Law Officers of the Crown. As, however, tha Bilht Hon. Gentleman would not oppose the motion for goi►.g into Committee, he would not al lude further to the matter. _ _ Sir CHARLES GREY distinctly recollected that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had stated in the former debate, that he was placed in a very inconvenient situa tion by the absence of his two Hon. and Learned Friends, and that another occasion for the discussion would be more convenient to himself ; but he had not put it as IL matter of personal favour to the Hun. and Learned Gen tleman, who said that as the matter had been argued be fore, ho would not consent to the request. Mr. PHILIP HOWARD said that it appeared to him that his Right Hon. Friend bore too hard upon the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, because his Right Hon. Friend must be aware that it was his duty, as guardian of the public purse, to make the best defence which he could, while the Hon. and Learned Gentleman was equally justified in injuring his case. He had on more than one occasion voted against the Right Hon. Gentle man, hut he did not see anything in his conduct which he could not applaud. - _ _ After a few words from Mr. WARBURTON and Mr. O'CONNELL, the House went into Committee ; and the resolution for an Address to her Majesty, was agreed to. The House then resumed, and the Report was agreed to be taker into consideration to-morrow. CHARITABLE TRUSTS BILL. On the motion for the third reading of the Charitable Trusts Bill, Sir E. SUGDEN objected to the third clause. The Bill purported to be one for facilitating the transfer of trust estates of charitable property ; but this clause was introduced clandestinely, and went to declare that trust estates vested in the old corporations should be now vested in the trustees appointed by the Lord Chancellor under the provisions of the Municipal Corporation Act. The clause was smuggled into the Bill for political pur poses. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman then proposed certain amendments in the clause. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that the clause was absolutely essential. There was no saying in whom those trust estates would he vested, and it was for the advantage of all.parties to have it known in whom the legal estate was vested... The House then divided, when there appeared— For the clause For the amendment 3O Majority for the clause —s The Bill then passed, and House went into COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY. Mr. FOX MAULE moved a grant of 666,2301. for defraying the expenses - of the embodied Militia in Great Britain and Ireland. The vote was agreed to, and the Report ordered to be received to-morrow (this day). The House then resumed, and on the motion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, went into COMMITTEE OF WAYS AND MEANS. The following votes were agreed to :-6,200,000/. from the Consolidated Fund ; 47,3681. 18s. surplus grants of former years ; 500,0001. tranfer of aids. The Report was. then ordered to bo brought up to morrow (this day). MUNICIPAL CORPORATION BILL The amendments to this Bill were agreed to, and the Bill was ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. BRIBERY AT ELECTIONS BILL. In answer to a question from Mr. S, O'BRIEN, Mr. F. MAULS said that it was the b ona fide inten tion of the Government to proceed with this Bill to morrow. NEW SOUTH WALES. The Reports of the New South Wales, &c., Bill, an d the Western Australia Bill, were received, an d or d ere d to be read a third tiinato-morrow. HOUSE OF INDUSTRY (IRELAND), & c ., BILL. On the motion for receiving the Report of this Bill, Sir E. KNATCHBJLL complained warmly of the conduct of the Government in bringing forward mea sures which were opposed to their declarations. Mr, MACAULAY defended the Government, and said they had made no declarations of the kind alluded to. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL for Ireland also de fended the conduct of the Government, and said that this could not properly be considered a Government measure, Colonel SIBTHORP quite agreed with his Right Hon. Friend (Sir E. Knatebbull) in the charge he had made ttoglist the Government, and he was glad that his Right Hon. Fri*:ld had exposed their humhng,--(Hear.) As he had before 0,40, he believed a more We, a TM in efficient, and a mcite-iis"arable Government never ex T isted. He could not trust thmn V inch, and he would ha. i T watch and expose their proceedings as he had do ne . s been so often heir F4peiplp was, " Let those laugh that win ,- .. 7- le t us ~. /i f tenthPaAlies , get our salanes, and ?lever mind ' the bnainess -of the •Tne orgbt no* ' ,. country."--(Rear; bear.) teh ~ .... thias 1 my, F,ItrAELE accid- the observations of the Hen. and It favour us on a L.,'• ' ' ll3 ' mY regr" ' 11 -.. nt ?. 1 ,45" ber t i e so Otterli below my conternpt i that I shall not ..,.. subject,that we I ~t 1 0 ' notke thetn. l :' , Aft6r a few the benefit of his k. ---.. measure, - (unity of looking other observations on ...... . 1 h am 9 1 44 9 10 1 in con' alluded, a lth oug h 1 1 Colonel SIBTHORP, who hau .- ""'"' "`' - , und to follow up the votes }louse was 1/.4 z• - • • • giyen.--(rtear„,l . t..'enypitet Mr. llKl...tp:kaiil —Sir, t tit V. 416.1 "fore Ok-iiiernSC, and -.SO -WeIVAIA .44,at I _ .,, Ily du nttei.ztqe.ile'r that'fouth 4 Ac. .b ' , pi 1- i,., ', i‘itis:34li.:: eipkes.s 4;1 4'4 L - - . 1 ,... ~ c : 'irPrlkr, diab' not ormer :TT.' lilt efifotilthis singht, in learning an sip:ear av had tl ed!" an 1.11 opportt ii,t,o those faet to fvhich ITh ha s .11,„ ;ultation with several Hon. Members around him, left the House. Mr. W. WYNN said that some words had just fallen froM the Hon. Gentleman opposite, which appeared to be very offensive to his Hon. and Gallant Friend who had just left the House. In order, therefore, to avoid any offensive proceedings, he should move that the Hon. Member for Lineoln be ordered to attend in his place forthwith.—(" Oh, oh," and " Hear, hear.") Honour able Gentlemen might laugh at him, but he made the motion on his own knowledge.—(Hear, hear.) The motion having been put, and the Speaker decid ing that it was carried in the affirmative, the Sergeant was despatched after Colonel Sibthorp. The report in in the meantime was ordered to be re ceived. The Deputy-Sergeant then entered and informed the Speaker that he had served the order of the 'House on Colonel Sibthorp. He had served it on him in the pas sage leading tp the House ; and he believed the Hon. and Gallant Member was then in one of the Committee rooms. COL SIBTHORP having then entered, accompanied by Sir E. KNATCHBULL, The SPEAKER said that having been given to under stand that some words had been used by an Hon. Mem ber which had been considered personally offensive by the Hon. and Gallant Member for Lincoln, he felt it was his duty to call on the Hon. Member to retract the ex - pressions. He also wished to say that he considered the Honourable Member had retracted the expressions or else he should certainly have called him to order. When the Hon. Member had commenced his speech he Lad used words which might have been thought offensive, upon - which he (the Speaker) called him to order, and the lion. Member as he understood then retracted his words. If, however, that were not the case he was sure the Hon. Member would see the necessity •f now re tracting expressions which were considered by another Hon. Member as personally offensive. Mr. FOX MAULE said he was aware that there was neither honour nor anything else to be gained in pro longing such a discussion. He did not want to conceal that it had been his wish to mark strongly his sense of the words which had fallen from the Hon. and Gallant Member. If, however, he had violated the orders of the House, he was ready to retract the expressions he had used. He would again repeat, that the statement brought against himself and his Hon. Friends around him, was such that he wished strongly to mark the sense which he entertained of them. Colonel SIBTHORP said that he had been actuated by only one motive, and that motive lie had a right to act upon. • He should always exercise in that House his right of expressing his opinion with regard to the con duct of public men. He had left the House, as he should always do upon such occasions ; and though he was ready to bow to any just authority, he considered that the guardianship •of his own honour and of his own character, both - as a public and it private' man, should never - prevent him from protecting that honour and that character in - the manner most consistent with his feel , ; ings; and with what he - - owed to his'. duty and himself. If he 'rightly understood the - Hon. Gentleman, - he had= not retracted the -etprestionihe -liad , used.. If he: had.done so,- he , .(Colonel Sibthorp) *IA perfectly satisfied --; but hd thought he had it . right-to put it tOthe Chair Whether he was hotind to consider that the -.Words'and 'imptcta tiOnedireeted against hint Were Wholly and - entirety r 64 tracted ? t• Sir R. PEEL submitted that the Hon. Gentleman had done all that could be expected from him, and that his Hon. and Gallant Friend should be perfectly satisfied.— (Hear, hear.) Colonel SIBTHORP said, that such being the opinion of gentlemen careful of their honour in that House, he would rest satisfied. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE attempted to address the House amid loud cries of " Order, order, chair, chair." The SPEAKER said he would subinit to the Hon. Member whether he did not think that the matter had gone far enough, and that there was no occasion for further prolonging the discussion?—(Hear.) The subject was then dropped. CLERK OF THE PEACE COMPENSATION BILL. On the Order of the Day being read for the bringing up the Report on the Clerk of the Peace (Lan caster) Bill, Mr. DUGDALE moved that the Bill be recommitted. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL opposed the motion. The House then divided, when the numbers were— For the motion 5l Against the motiou 5O Majority —l The Bill having then been ordered to be recommitted, Mr. DUGDALE moved that it be an instruction to the Committee to grant compensation to the Town Clerk of the Peace for the Borough of Birmingham.—Agreed to. Mr. COURTENAY moved that it be an instruction to the Committee to grant compensation to the Clerk of Justices of the Peace for Manchester. Mr. M. PHILTPS opposed the motion, no petition having bee* presented in its favour, and the feeling of the inhabitants of the town being unanimously against it. Strangers were then ordered to Withdraw, and the House divided, when there appeared— For the instruction — 28 Against it 65 Majority against it _ —37 Mr. AINSWURTiI moved that it be an instruction to the Committee that the provisions of the Bill should be extended to the borough of Bolton. It was called for on precisely the same grounds as the borough of Man chester. Mr. GRIMSDITCH opposed the motion. In the case of Manchester a decision as to the question of the va lidity of the charter had been decided by a Court of Law, but the question of the validity of Bolton charter was in dispute. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that the motioa had no tendency whatever to decide the question of the validity of the charter. It merely went to decide the question of compensation in case the charter should be found to be valid. Mr. AINSWORTH said that the parties to the litiga tion of the Bolton charter had agreed to abide by the de cision of the Manchester case, and therefore it could not be said that no decision had been come to on the question. Mr. WYNN opposed the motion, on the ground that the people of Bolton ought to have had due notice by the introduction of a Bill for that special purpose, so that they might have an opportunity of petitioning against it. The gallery was then cleared, but the motion was negatived without a division. The House then went into Committee. On the motion for introducing a clause to include Bir mingham in the provisions of the Bill, Mi.. HUME hoped that the same course would be pur sued as in the Bolton case, and that a special Bill would be required for the purpose. Mr. DUGDALE said that the compensatien was not objected to by any of the authorities of Birmingham, and, therefore, he should move the insertion of the clause. had said that he (Lord John Russell) had not gone on with extreme diligence with respect to this measure. That was very easily said, but it must be recollected, that considering that the Army Estimates, and several other questions of importance had to be discussed, as much of the. time of the House as could well be spared had been given to the subject. The Right Hon. Gentleman he stated that with regard to the administration of jus tice, th ere was no necessity whatever for the measure coming into operation before the month of October. Now, fior his own part, he thought it would be a matter of extreme convenience that the whole provisions of the Bill should be well understood, that all the appointments under it should be made, and every arrangement per fected, in order that when the Courts met in Michaelmas Term, Counsel and all parties should understand the course they had to pursue. By that means every ar rangement might be made with regard to the sitting of the different Courts, and the legal business of the country i placed upon a proper footing. The Right Honourable Gentleman had stated freely and frankly that his object in moving the introduction of the present clause, was not for the purpose of expediting the administration of justice, but because he thought that as the House had passed a vote of no con fidence in Ministers; that therefove they were not fit per sons—that the Lord Chancellor was not a fit person, to make the appointments which were contemplated by the Bill. He (Lord John Russell) could not assent to such reasons. It was impossible that he should assent to such grounds without admitting, which he could not admit, that no appointments ought to be made by any Member of the present Ministry because the Right Hon. Gentle man opposite, the Member for Tamworth, had obtained a vote from that House of want of confidence by a majority of one. He denied the authority of the vote to prevent the Ministry proceeding in its usual course, unless that vote was backed by the opinion of the country.—(Hear, hear.) Why, he would ask, should it be said or in sinuated that the Lord Chancellor, because he might be might be about to retire from office, was unfit to nomi nate individuals to office under the Bill? He thought that the course which the Lord Chancellor had hitherto pursued had shown a determination on his part not to appoint individuals to unnecessary offices, and as an in stance of that—as an instance of the desire on the part of the Lord Chancellor not to avail himself of the exer cise of the patronage he possessed, he might refer to the cases of Mr. Justice Erskine, and Sir George Rose. In both those cases the Lord Chancellor considering the appointments which those learned gentlemen held to be unnecessary, refrained from ap pointing any successors to them. Such being the con duct of the Lord Chancellor, he would ask whether the Right Hon. Gentleman was justified in coming forward and placing every obstacle in his power to the further proceeding with a Bill for the better administration of the justice of the country, and at the same time to en deavour, if possible, to fix a stigma upon the Lord Chan cellor, because it was thought probable that he would shortly retire from - office?—(Hear, hear.)` The Right Hon. Gentleman, with' the candour. ; for which he Nyas eminent, had not veiled the' purpose he had in view in pursuing the course ,ha.: had done. He had stated that • hit:. reasons for proposing the - clause was, 'that the House had come to a vote of = a 'want of ocuifidence in Ministers ; as he had said before, he'consi defect the adoption of such acourse totally uncalled f0t,.1 as he felt convitieed'Alitit the Lord , Chancellor, in any recommendations he might make, would be guided alone by a desire for the pure administration of justice.— (Cheers.) He could only look upon the clause pro posed by the Right Hon. Gentleman as one, the object of which was to declare that Lord Cottenham was totally unfit to make any recommendations for the appointment of officers under the Bill.—(Cries of " No, no.") That must be meaning of the Right Hon. Gentleman. —(Cries of " No.") What else could it be ? The effect of the interposition of the Right Honourable Gentle man's clause was that which he had stated, a determination to say that the present Lord Chancellor was not fit to dispose of the appoint ments which would be given to that high legal officer by the Bill. The present Noble Lord who filled that. office had been respected by the country for the impartial man ner in which he had administered justice in the disposal. of every cause which had come before him, and the clear and lucid nature of the judgments that he had given ; and yet a Learned Judge who had so acted, and who was so respected by the country, was to be con demned in the House of Commons, because, on a party question, the other side of the House had gained a temporary victory by a majority of one. Upon this ques tion he (Lord J. Russell) must defer to the opinion of the House, but he would never allow the name of the Lord Chancellor to be branded with odium. Mr. HUME objected, on the principle laid down by the Hon. Member for Montgomery. Mr. C. DOUGLAS said that compensation had been given to the Clerk of the Peace of Warwick, and that the case of the Town Clerk of Birmingham was precisely similar. Mr. WARBURTON said they had nothing to do with the merits of the ease. The House had decided in the case of Bolton that a preliminary objection existed in point of form, and precisely the same objection existed to the present clause. Sir R. PEEL thought that the tow.i of Birmingham having had notice, and not having petitioned against it, it would-be pressing the matter too far to oppose this clause. Mr. WARBURTON asked how they were to know that the people of Birmingham had had sufficient notice ? Mr. G RIMSDITCH said that he had understood from the Members for Birmingham that they would not interfere. Mr. HUME said that there was a Member for Bir mingham in the House, who would not declare one way or the other ; and therefore how could they tell whether the inhabitants had or had not had sufficient notice? The clause was then brought up and added to the Bill. The House then resumed ; the Report was received, and ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE BILL. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved the further con sideration of the Report on this Bill. Sir E. SUGDEN said he thought this Bill would not have been brought forward at this period of the Session, still he would not oppose the Bill if some modification were proposed in it. It would be extremely inconvenient to establish a new Court of Chancery at this period of the year. He knew from experience how difficult it was to conduct the business of the Courts during a gene ral election. With the approach of the election it would be highly improper to add a new Court to those already in existence. He (Sir Edward Sugden) was rather surprised, under all circumstances, that the Bill should be pressed upon the House. The House had declared their want of confidence in the Government,. and the Noble Lord opposite (Lord J. Russell) had been found wanting. He was now about to appeal to the country and to stand upon his trial. Still he would not altogether oppose the Bill. What he would propose was this—That a clause should be added, providing that the Bill should not come into operation until the 10th of October. Iu the present position of the Government, was that, or was It not a reasonable proposition ? (Hear, hear.) The result of the elections would be known in two or three weeks. He could not consent to place all this patronage in the hands of the Government until it was known whether or aot ' they possessed the confidence of the country. He trusted that no Ministers placed in the delicate situa tion in which the present Ministry were, would be al lowed by that House to make the appointments to which he alluded, He should therefore move that the follow ing c l ause be added to the Bill ;—" And be it enacted, that this Act shall commence and have effect on and from and after the 10th day of October next, and not be fore, except where a subsequent day is hereinbefore fixed." Mr. RICHARDS said that he believed the appoint ments which the Lord Chancellor had made in the Chancery and the Exchequer, had given general satis faction to the profession. He had come down to the House that night prepared to vote against the proposi tion of his Right Hon. Friend the Member for Ripon, because he thought its effect might be to throw the Bill over altogether, but as he now found that the proposition was only to postpone the appointment of the new Vice- Chancellor, he did most cordially support it. Sir R. PEEL said that if the Lord Chancellor was obstructed in the exercise of the legal patronage of the Government by an Address to the Crown, he should con sider that as implying distrust in the great officer, and he could not consent to it. But he thought that there was a clear distinction between refusing to be a party to any arrangement that implied confidence in the Govern ment, and that of distrusting one of its highest officers. In the present case he considered there was a great ju dicial arrangement under consideration.--(Hear.) The Executive Government, had been shown not to possess that confidence of the House of Commons. It was true that the Noble Lord had said that the next Parliament was to decide whether the present Government was to re,- main in power or not, and such being the case, h e thought, when a great judicial arraugemer, t was under consideration, it was inconvenient, for the House, placed as it then was, to pror_eed with it. He thought the best course would be ttiat the present Bill should be withdrawn ; and if the . : Noble Lord on the meeting of a new Parliament sh'ould fi n d hi mse lf i n a condition to carry on the attan•s of the country, then he (Sir R. Peel) should have no objection to support him-in the present measure, and thereby all imputations upon the Lord Chancellor would be prevented. He (Sir R. Peel) disclaimed any intention of making any personal attack upon the Lord Chancellor, and he thought, con sidering all the circumstances of the case, that the course he had pointed out was the best that could be pursued. He hoped, therefore, that the Noble Lord would post pone the Bill for the present Session, and bring it in in ' the next if he found he was in a condition to carry on the Government, and then he could assure him that he should have his support. The Noble Lord, however, must not charge him (Sir R. Peel) with obstructing their great judicial improvement. Mr. LABOUCHERE said he did not rise to express any opinion as to the course which it was advisable to take with regard to this Bill, but to protest against the doctrine of the Right Hon. Gentleman, which he re garded as at once novel, dangerous, and unconstitutional. —(Hear, hear.) He looked upon the motion as intended to deprive the Ministers, for the time being, of the pa tronage which was usually enjoyed by the Government. —(Hear, hear.) He would not en t er i n t o any d e f ence of the Lord Chancellor, believing that his character did not need vindication.—(Hear.) Sir E. SUGDEN explained. His Right Hon. Friend said he had not the slightest intention of casting any reflection upon the Lord Chancellor. Mr. HUME said it seemed to him, looking at both sides of the Houso, that the question was, who should have the appointment of the Judges.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman who had proposed the amendment, might have saved himself a great deal of trouble by tell ing them that on the 4th of Octobethe expected his party to be in power, and he wished the appointment to be postponed to that period.—(Hear, and a laugh.) It was obvious that there was no analogy between this case and that of the Corn-laws. The question had not yet been discussed, and upon it there existed great difference of opinion, whilst the Bill before the House was admitted by every one to be a fit and proper measure. They had been told that this was not a question of party. Did party ever appear in a stronger light ?—(Hear, hear.) He admitted that there had been a majority of one against the Government, but although a majority on that particu lar vote, it was not a majority of the House. What would the Hon. Baronet have said had the opposition taken such a course when he held the reins of office ? (Hear, hear.) The plain truth was, that the present Government would have the nomination, and the Lord Chancellor would have the recommendation of the proposed Judges. Thpse who now stood in the way of justice opposed the Bill in order to secure the patronage. That was the fact, and it would be Much better to admit it.—(Hear, hear.) He hoped the Noble Lord would take • the sense of the House on the clause. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw and the House divided, when there appeared— For Sir E. Sugden's amendment. lOl Against it.. Bl Majority lB _ On our return to the gallery we found Lord J. RUSSELL declaring that he was sorry to differ from the opinions of the majority, of the House, but he could not consent to be a party to proceeding with the Bill as amended.(llear, hear.) He should, therefore, move that the further considera tion of the Report be postponed to that day three weeks. Sir E. SUGDEN disclaimed all intention of casting any imputation on the conduct of the Lord Chancellor. Sir DE LACY EVANS said that the Bill was to be postponed for three or four months, merely for the pur pose of exercising patronage. He hoped that that would go forth to the public. It should be marked in that House, as it would be elsewhere, that this Parliament, which was declared to be a monopolist Parliament— (Conservative cheers)—had also given the present fur ther proof of flagrant partizanship. Lord STANLEY said he could not let the speech of the gentleman who had just sat down pass without ob servation. The effect of the vote which had just taken place, had it not been for the course . which it was thought right by . the Government to pursue, would not have for a single instant post .poned the beneficial operation of the Bill. The Act could not, for any beneficial purpose, come into operation previous to the Ist of November next, and, by the amend ment which had . just taken place, it had been decided that the persons in whoni the appointment of the judicial officers should be vested, should be the Government of the day, by whomsoever the Government of the day was conducted ; and by the 14th of October, a fort night before th Bill could possibly come into opera tion, her Maje s ty' s G over n me nt, the Government on the other side of the Hon se, without one word of opposition, or a single day' s delay, would have exercised the power which Mini s t erso f t h e C rown oug ht to dowith hoth sides of Rouse, a p ower recogn i se d by malting those judicial ap pointments, long previous to,,the time ,when . the country could. benefit from the operq,tir of the Bill, Illoadouse, had thought otherwise • those functionsof the Executi . ve,Uoymp lo ptwould be exerOsed 4y sters who were at the presen t moment in ahoyance— (Conaervatiye cheers)--whp were hol4in4 officw wider Leave was then given to the Hon. Gentleman to bring up the clause, which was read a first time ; and on the motion that it be read a second time, Lord J. RUSSELL rose and said that he had hoped that the Ri g h t H on . G ent l eman opposite would have been satisfied with th e ob s tacles he had already thrown in the way o f th e House proceeding with the Bill. — (Hear, hear.) He h a d h o p e d that the time had come when that Right Hon. Gentleman would have con sidered further interposition and obstacles on his part unnecessary. The Right Hon. Gentleman had made observations that night with respect to him (Lord J. Rus sell) and the other inemhers of the cahinet as reasons why the Bill should not he alleived to proceed further in the Rresent session. At th ose o b serva t io ns he (Lord John ussell) had been greatly surprised, because the Bill in its presiult state had be e n supported not only.bY Lord LyndhiirSt and L4d Brptighim,. but the; majority of the Peers in th 4 ; qnti; Such being,. Abe. case, he had '41;0 ihlit the- itikfitlion. Qerttleinan wadi& not have pursued the eourSe he had . to en by, continuing his offOsitl9l4 to the 44pcom, Tio Itipt goo. Gen THE SUN, LONDON, THURSDAY, JUNE 10, 1841. a conditional resignation, until a decision was come to whether they were fit to carry on the Government. or not. It was the Noble Lord's own doing, and no one else's, if the country sustained the least delay, impedi ment, or difficulty in obtaining the benefits that would arise from this Bill. Notwithstanding the steps taken by the Noble Lord, supposing a new Parliament was called together at the time it was expected, he would yet have time to introduce a new Bill, precisely in the terms of the present Bill, and if he was then the Minister of the Crown, he had the undisputed power of the appoint ments to those judicial offices. Mr. LABOUCHERE said that the speech of the Noble Lord only confirmed the impression on his mind, that the decision of the House established a principle equally novel and unconstitutional. He begged to state that Hon. Gentlemen on the other side of the House had not justified their course in the present case by adducing one precedent. He heard with regret the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tam worth on this subject. It was at variance with the opinions which he had heard the Right Hon. Baronet uniformly maintain on those subjects. Mr. VILLIERS said it had been stated by the Noble Lord (Lord Stanley) that no inconvenience would arise to the public from the postponement of the measure. Lord STANLEY—By the. amendment. _ Mr. VILLIERS--The object of the amendment was to prevent the Bill coming into operation; and did the Noble Lord mean to reconcile the public by stating that no inconvenience would arise from the Bill being with drawn ? The complaint of the public was the positive denial of justice, and when they wire on the eve of having a Bill passed to remedy the grievance.eQmPlained of, the - Bill was to be postponed for the purpose of allow= ing the party who might be hereafter in power exer cising patronage. The public had more right to feel aggrieved at this than at any other act of party. Mr. PEMBERTON said the public had a right to feel aggrieved ; but with which party did the blame rest ? He was as anxious as any one that this Bill should pass, but had Gentlemen on the other side - of the House always exhibited anxiety on this subject? From 1836, when the King declared that the first duty of the Sovereign was to forward the speedy administration of justice, to 1840, no step whatever had been taken by the Gentlemen on the other side to remedy the -evils which it was now sought to put an end to. The Bill provided not only for the appointment of Judges, but of registrars and other officers, nOl) of whom could be appointed before the month of Aiigust, and the Court would not come into operation until. No vember. The clause would not delay the operation of the Bill for a single hour, but the proposition of the Noble Lord would. When complaints were made as to its not passing in, the Parliament, they should recollect that whatever responsibility there was, attached to the Noble Lord. Mr. WAKLEY thought the Noble Lord could not have acted otherwise than he had done,;, he was anxious that it sh9.tild be known that these - violent attacks upon the prerogative :came not from the_ Raclieal party. — (Cheers.) The Radical party, had _never Made any proposals Affecting the Royal_ prerogative,:_ had been •made = fit that House 'during the last „ three -Weeks. : ---(Hear, hear.) IC these . proceedings con tinuedi. the days of the Monarchy were numbered The people were discontented at being unrepresented. When the people eame to the House, inefelye askinglor their merciful interference with the executive Govern ment and the Crown, they were told by both sides of the House not to interfere with the Royal prerogative. Such was the language of the Ri g ht Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth—(Loud cheers)—but when the interests of party were concerned, then the prerogative was a shuttlecock, and to be considered of no more value than a stone in the street.—(Loud cheers.) He, as a Radical Reformer, while he was anxious for a more extended representation of the people, was also anxious to uphold the Royal prerogative. He had never coun tenanced any attacks on that prerogative, but he must say, that he thought the example set by the majority of that House in their recent attacks on that prerogative, would be one of fearful import if Hon. Gentlemen op posite did not speedily recover their senses. He did not charge- Gentlemen with being actuated by improper mo tives, but he stated what was, in his opinion, the in evitable consequence of the course which they had pursued. . Sir R. PEEL thought that the real cause of what had happened was quite evident.—(Hear, hear.) The cause of it was neither more nor less than the attempt of Mi nisters to carry on the Goverment without the confidence of the House.(Opposition cheers.) There had clearly been no other course for the Government to pursue after the House of Commons had declared that they did not possess its confidence than either to resign or immediately to dissolve the present Parliament. By an immediate dissolution he did not mean a dissolution without the ne cessary grants to carry on the public service. He did not mean a dissolution, without those legis lative Acts which would enable them to levy the usual duties ; but le should say that no contested motion of any kind whatever—that no Act of the Rouse of Comn . .ons which implied its confidence in the Ministry, sl:iould have been proposed. Their present embarrimment arose from their anomalous, and extraordinary, acid unparalled position, they being placed in a minority o'u the vote of confidence, and yet coming and asking the House for a fresh demonstration of confi dence ; and they might depend upon it, it was impossible that a Government could go on upon such a principle. — (Hear, hear.) The proposed devolution of power would imply confidence ; and ,if they had passed that Act, would not Honourable Gentlemen oppo site be themselves the first to turn round and tell their, that such a proceeding was inconsistent with the vr.)te they had come to on Friday night ? for he re peated that it would be a demonstration of confidence to give Ministers the authority to make great judicial ar rangements. He was perfectly confident that they would have been taunted with inconsistency by Hon. Gentle men opposite, who would not have drawn a distinction between the ordinary constitutional and legitimate pre rogatives of the Crown, and the powers conferred for the first time by a legislative Act, to which the House of Commons must be a party. There -was clearly a distinction between devolving new prerogatives upon the Crown and respecting those which it possessed ; and they might depend upon it that if this precedent was adopted, that a Government being not only in a minority in the House, and unable to carry its principles, but not having the confidence of the House of Commons, should ask for a new demonstration of con fidence ; but then, depend upon it, that the House would not consent to such a course. They could no do it with consistency. Hon. Gentlemen opposite complained of the attempt on the part of the House to interfere with the prerogatives of the Crown. Now, they should also claim the prerogatives of the House of Commons.—(Hear, hear.) They claimed for the House a perfect right to consider legislative measures—they claimed the perfect right, when an Act was proposed to them to enable the Government to make an appointment on the 15th of August, to say whether the 15th of October should not be inserted in its stead in the Bill. It was a perfectly new doctrine to maintain that the House of Commons was not com pletely at liberty, with respect to mere legislative enact ments, to exercise its own discretion ; and so far from thinking that the Monarchy would thereby be placed in the slightest danger, if that was really the opinion of the Hon. Gentleman opposite, he (Sir R. Peel) did not re collect a time when a higher prerogative was claimed for the Crown than that the House of Commons should not have the power of considering a legislative mea sure submitted to its decision, and of substituting the 15th of October for the 15th of August. No man could contend more strenuously for the le . gitimate prerogative of the Crown than he would do ; but if a Government, not having the con fidence of the House of Commons, should attempt to conduct the administration of affairs, they might de pend upon it that they would be obstructed, that they would be thwarted, and if the prerogatives of the Crown did in that case sustain any injury, it was not because the majority in the House of Commons claimed for the House its due privileges, but the fault lay entirely with those who, being Ministers of the Crown, did not do ho mage to the principles of representative Government, but continued not only to administer executive functions, but to propose to the House legislative Acts which would imply a vote of confidence in them.—(Hear.) Mr. lIAWES said it would have been much better on the part of Hon. Gentlemen opposite, when the Bill was announced to the House, to say at once that they would not proceed with a legislative measure. They had done no such thing, however. They consented to everything contained in the measure, but they scrambled for the pa tronage. He had never witnessed a more shabby pro ceeding in that House. Mr. B. WOOD put it to the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite whether the people of England would not call into question the integrity of the Judges, while they saw two ()Teat parties contending for their appointment ? The Bill was then withdrawn. The Banks of Issue Bill then passed through Com mittee. DEBTS OF PARISHES' BILL. On the motion that this Bill be committed. Mr. FOX MAULE objected to proceeding any fnrther with this Bill Sir E. KNATCHBULL believed the Bill was satis factory to all the parties concerned, and therefore he hoped the Hon. Gentleman would allow the Bill to go on. Mr. I)ARBY hoped the Bill would be allowed to pro ceed, for he knew several gentlemen who with disinte rested motives had advanced money to different parishes. Mr. FOX MAULE objected to the Bill without fur.' ther explanation for the Hon. Member on the subject. • Mr. B. WOOD wanted to know what these debtS were. It was not Pair to saddle the present rate-payers with debts of a hundred years' standing. He should move that the Bill be committed that day three weeks. Mr. DARBY said the rate-payers could not be bound unless the parishes had acknowledged the debt. Mr. WARBURTON thought the House ought not to legislate on a subject affecting numerous parishes on the mere statements of individual Members. The subject ought to be investigated before a Committee before the Bill was entertained. Sir EDWARD KNATCHBULL explained. He had been in communication with the parties concerned—he had beon in communication with the Poor-law Commis sioners, and all were agreed as to the necessity of the measure. He knew several cases of great hardship, which called for some such measure as the present for their relief—eases in which parties had lent money to parishes to enable them to establish their legal claims to properties, when the parishes, by the aid of such money, had done so, and were, at the present mo ment, in the enjoyment of the property so acquired:; and yet, according to the opinions of the Poor-law Com missioners, it was not competent, under the Poor 7 law Aot, for such parishes to pay either the principal or in terest of such moneys out of the rates. it was for these reasons that he wished to press the Bill. Mr. HAWES opposed the. Bill. After same ihrther conversation, the debate was, by consent, adjourned till Friday. ? - • • The-Metropolis I MentS (No -2 ) Bill **at read second time • - • The other Orders of the Day vere then disposed of, and the House adjourned at Que o'Clook, POLICE INTELLIGENCE. MANSION-HOUSE. In the course of the last week the Lord Mayor received tht following letter, on a subject which his Lordship said he con sidered to be one of paramount interest to those who send their children to France to be educated:-- " My Lord,—The friends of several youths who were sent to France for their education are desirous to lay before your Lordship the subjoined statement, with the accompanying me morandum, in order that, with your Lordship's permission, it may be publicly read at the Mansion-house, as a caution to parents_ against entrusting their children t o th e t en d er care o f French advertising schoolmasters. To substantiate the truth of the statement, your Lordship is respectfully referred to the parties whose names are below, and the boys who have written the memoranda appended hereto will, if required, attend your Lordship, to verify all they have asserted, and make such further explanation as may be deemed necessary." An exposu' e of the infamous establishment to which refer ence is made will, perhaps, conduce to correct similar abuses elsewhere, and be a just infliction on the impostor who, by false pretences, succeeded in deluding many anxious parents, and formed a school wherein ill-treatment, hunger, and misery, were the chief, and nearly the only lessons that were taught by him. The persons to be referred to who had sons at the school are, Mr. John Forrester, Police :Court, Mansion House (one boy), Mr. 'James Earp, 156, Fleet-street (two boys), Mr. Thompson, 15, Queen's-row, Pentonville (one boy), Mrs. Wilson, 3, Vauxhall-place, South Lambeth (two boys), Mr. Ruthven, of the Bow-street office (two boys). The following is the statement, which will strongly bring to mind the description given by the immortal Boz of the doings in a Yorkshire seminary. A FRENCH DO-THE-BOYS HALL.—At about five miles from Boulogne-ser-Mer, is the academy of Monsieur de Bree, known also as the " Chateau de la Capelle," a large ancient house, situated in grounds of a very picturesque and enchanting appearance. Monsieur de Bree is a single gentleman, who has raised a. school by periodically visiting London and advertising in the public journals, soliciting parents to submit their chil dren to his care and educational instruction, promising every attention to their intellectual improvement, the culti vation of their morals, and their domestic comforts. Till within a few weeks of the present date, the establishment he had succeeded in thus forming, con sisted of English and American youths. In his circular M. de Bree set forth that he professed to take the whole re sponsibility of their education by his own arduous and undi vided exertions for the proficiency of his pupils, rather than to risk the negligence of tutors, while the domestic arrange ments of his household were committed to the anxious and motherly superintendence of his revered parent. Lulled by the speciousness of the charlatan, parents eagerly embraced an opportunity to send their boys to be advanced in the French language at an establishment apparently so com fortable and within so short a distance from London, where they easily imagined a weekly correspondence could be had with their children. Mr. John Forrester, of the Mansion-house police establish ment, having some business at Boulogne, made a hasty visit to his son, who was one of Monsieur de Bree's pupils. The fa ther was so shocked at the child's appearance, and at the report the boy gave of the treatment the pupils received from Monsieur de Bree and his mother, that he immediately removed the lad, and with him his friend Mr. Ruthven's two sons, who had been sent to the school by,his recommendation. - He brought his son home-, and called on the parents of some of the other boys, to gtfite his reasons' for.reiaormg Ale boy from the academy. Two sons of Mr. Earp,-of Fleet-street,,,being at the school; Mrs. Earp, upon being informed that they were subjected to a starvation - diet .aisd cruel treatment, hastened to Boulogne, for the purpose of -eitherratisrying herself or thrincoirectness of the report, or to tiring her sons ,lOnie. On her arrival at the Chateau dela Capelle, she vies not idmitfed beyond the large hall, and she there hactan intirview with Monsieur de Brae. and his .mother-' She found her children half famishing, and from being of strong and robust appearance on their leaving home nine months pre viously, both were now thin and emaciated, having also lost their former flow of spirits, and become afflicted with a harsh rush all over the surface of the skin. One of them had had a sore foot for four months without any attention being paid to it by Madame de Bree. On complaining of the situation in which she found the boys, and referring to the hearty and healthful condition they exhibited at the time they joined the academy, Madame de Bree, in an emphatic manner, declared that all English bays were in a rotten and vulgar state, from repletion, and their unhealthy flesh t equired to be reduced by a spare diet. Mrs. Earp brought her sons home, and from them learned that the boys were seldom indulged with meat at a meal, and that whenever it was allowed the quantity was con fined to scarcely two ounces each. Thirty pounds of flour weekly supplied the whole establishment with bread and pies. At breakfast a cup of bran tea, unsweetened, and two thin slices of bread formed the meal. Eight or nine hours after, a few potatoes sufficed for dinner, and no supper was allovred at all , there being no servant, male or female, or occasional helper of any kind. The boys were compelled to become cooks, bakers, butchers, porters, field-labourers, gardeners, ostlers, cow-boys, housemaids, scullery maids, and, in fine, to perform all the drudgery of the establishment. The chateau being of large dimensions, 12 of the rooms were unoccupied : neither these nor those tenanted were ever cleaned. Clean sheets to the beds were too refined a luxury to be indulged in fre quently ; and during nine months, it is solemnly as serted, that those essentials to comfort were only changed once. Water was brought from a distance by the boys (by yoke and pails), and then carefully locked up from their use. A slight complaining by any of the boys was imme diately silenced by severe chastisement and starvation. Medi cine, of which there was always abundance, was carefully in troduced whenever meals were short, and by a singular instinct Madame do Bree readily discerned which of the boys would he benefited by being well dosed for the day, in preference to their taking a meal. During the late severe winter fires were seldom allowed, but the boys were constrained to gambol in an underground stone kitchen without food for ten or twelve hours together to warm themselves. Sometimes they were sent out to gather sticks to kindle a fire with, which afterwards were very sparingly used. By neglect and want of cleanliness many boys contracted very bad chilblains—some were confined to their beds by the ulcerations which supervened. Several from this cause were for months unable to attend to their ordinary occupations, and although claiming the sympathy of Mons. de Bree and his mother, were frequently severely beaten while in bed for presuming to complain. It is difficult to conceive that the boys could not communicate their miseries to their parents. Let it be remembered•that the chateau was five miles from Boulogne ; that the watchful eye of Monsieur de Bree and his mother prevented any attempt on the part of the boys to correspond, excepting under their dictation, and that any in fringement of their rules was met by certain and severe punish ment and starvation. Although three cows were kept, the boys did not benefit by that circumstance. Bran tea, in an unsweetened state, and slightly coloured with milk being the only beverage allowed. The boys were actually employed to slaughter, skin, and dress a calf, the entrails of which were afterwards biked in a pie and brought to table for several successive days. Monsieur de Bree also kept a pony and phaeton, which were looked after by the boys; and occasionally, when he drove his mother out, the boys were made to follow for many miles on foot. Those who were enable to do so by reason of their bad feet, were shut np in a room till their return. One little fellow who, from being a strong stout boy, had dwindled by excessive bad treatment to a mere skeleton, and was so weak as to be scarcely able to walk—was often subjected to the most cruel treatment in being beaten, cuffed, and made sport of to amuse the other boys. A surgeon's certificate, appended heretd, will show the condition in which this youth was brought home ' • and the statements of four of the boys, also appended, will evidence the cruelty, starvation, and misery to which the whole school was so shamefully and inhumanly subjected. The pro spectus issued by Monsieur de Bree pretended to a pecu liarly happy method of instruction to his pupils, by which emulation was made to be the chief incentive to their intellec tual exertions ; yet it appears there were no regular school hours,—that Monsieur de Bree rarely or scarcely ever heard the boys their lessons, but that each repeated them to the other; so that, in fact, no improvement could fairly progress. An imposition, therefore, in every instance, as gross as it is im pudent, has been practised by Monsieur de Bree, the exposi tion of which, it is hoped, will deprive him of all future support in this country, and operate as a caution to parents in sending children to France for their education, without previously making all necessary inquiries as to the haracter of the esta blishment which they may select.' The following list exhibits the names of the boys still remaining at the school, and of those who have been brought home since the discotery by their pa rents of the inhumanity practised at the Chateau de la Ca pelle BOYS BROUGHT AWAY FROM CHATEAU DE LA CAPELLE. George Forrester, son of Mr. John Forrester, Mansion house Peke. Thomas Ruthven and Henry Ruthven, sons of Mr. Ruthven, of Bow-street Police Court. Thomas Earp and James Earp, sons of Mr. Earp, 156, Fleet-street. Charles Wilson and John Wilson, sons of Mrs. Wilson, 3, Vauxhall-place, South Lambeth. William Cooper, son of Mr. Cooper, of Mount Hotel, Lower Grosvenor-street. Henry P. Griggs, son of Mrs. Thompson, 15, Queen's-row, Pentonville. Henry W. Style, son of Mrs. Style, Thorp Perron, Bedale, Yorkshire. LEFT AT SCHOOL AFTER THE REMOVAL OF THE BOYS ABOVE NAMED. THE RESIDENCES OF THE FRIENDS OF THESE YOUTHS ARE NOT KNOWN. Charles Cruchley, William Cruchley, and George Cruchley, Americans. George Michael Nasmyth, son of Lady Nasmyth James Hoare. William Gough. The documents herewith in confirmation of the foregoing statement are the statement of H. P. Griggs, and a Surgeon's certificate ( A and B), the statement of H. W. Style, and his mother's letter (C and 1)), the statement of Thomas Earp (E), and the statement of Charles Wilson (F). (A.) 1 have been as pupil with M. de Bree for one year and ten months ; for the first twelve months we were treated very well, and during that time M. de Bree attended to our studies, and on my visiting my parents at Midsummer 1840, in answer to their inquiries, I informed them I was very comfortable, and expressed my willingness to return with M. de Bree, as my parents seemed much pleased with my improvement in French, &c. On my return to the school M. de Bree for two or three weeks paid his usual attention, but we soon found a great falling off in onr diet and other comforts, and by our taking notice of it, either by word or ac tion, we were severely beaten, and otherwise ill treated. Our breakfast consisted of bran tea, and two slices of bread, with hardly any butter ; we then dined at three or four o'clock, and had a very small piece of meat and potatoes, not half sufficient to satisfy our hunger, but we dare not complain, as, in that case, we were dreadfully beaten. As the cold weather ap proached, our lessons were neglected, and we were sent to pick up wood for our scanty fire ; our wishing also was much neglected, and from being exposed to filth and cold, I had chil blains in my feet, as well as many others, and on our complaining, we were beaten and shut up in a room with scarcely any food; what we had was bran tea and potatoes, without any meat. In consequence of want of food and ill treatment, I was unable, from weakness and sore feet, to stand. I was then entirely confined to my room for four months. Mad. de Bree visited me, and threw two or three dry potatoes into my bed, without salt, or a knife to peel them. And as my feet were now so bad I could hardly crawl, when I wished them to be looked at or dressed, Mad. de Bree would beat me over my head, call me dreadful names, and say she had no time to dress my rotten feet. 1 slept on a very hard matt ass with hardly any cover ing, and the sheets were torn and very old ; they were not ' washed for many weeks, and in consequence of the discharge from my feet the smell was very offensive. For many days ' together I was not allowed any water to wash my hands and face, as I was not able to procure it myself ; almost every time I was visited by Mons. or Madame de Bree, I was beaten or called bad names. A few days before my coming home, they stood over me, and made me write to my parents, stating I was well, happy, and com fortable, and had every thing I could wish for ; this was done when I could not stand for my sore feet. I was so weak from hunger my bones were wady through my skin ; myself and the other boys often ate the cabbagesleaves, beans, and other refuse left by the cows—in fact I cannot state all the hardships, ill-treatment, and hunger, W.t . have' undergone, all of which will be corroborated by the other boys ; and had not Mr. For rester and Mrs. Earp witnessed our sufferings, "and taken us t o our_ friends; we must have_sta.rve4l.tWe haveall endeavoured t o write secretly to our friends, buttould not get an OpPortteity, as we had no servant, and were not allowed to speak to any' person visiting the house, At the time I write this lam ;till EVENTING _EDITION. = confined to my bed, although I have had the greatest Cae arid nourishing food from my dear mother for the last ten days, on d the kind attention of Dr. Symes, her medical adviser , wile has visited ire every day; his certificate ;will testify the state in which he found me. The pocket-money I 118 d given me by my parents, amounting to 14s. 6d., in"' on my return to school, taken from me by M. de Bre° , and be has scarcely allowed me any part of it to spend, i h e " sides charging 35. per quarter for spending money. W e u ar h e not ask for it for fear of being beaten. We were all very In"- afraid of Madame de Bree, as when we showed dbenitent, she would beat and starve us, so we were obliged to submit to her cruel treatment. I hope Mons. and Madame Ile Bree ' s cruel treatment to me may be made public, so that it - may Prev ent other boys from experiencing the hunger and hardships I W e endured. HENRY PHILIP GRIGGS. 1 5, Queen's-row, Pentonville. I omitted to say that the day I came away, a strive bed so i prepared for me in a loft. ) I hereby certify that Master Grigg's health when be f ,;: turned from M. de Bree's school was most deplorable ; ing, in my opinion, from want of nourishment and cleanlioeiz - and had he remained much longer, I have no doubt his !i l l would have been sacrificed. • •t eit . WILLIAM SYMES, Stu-Aeon , Tavistock-square, May 21, 1841. _ (C.) I have been to school at M. de Bree's Chateau de l& cells, Boulogne-sur-Aler, and during my stay there have se" -- / • all sorts of ill-treatment. 1 have been there a quarter o bear, and have only had meat to my dinner, and butter on ni! read for three weeks out of that time. I have suffe:ed verely from hunger, as she used to give me a thin slice of d I bread for breakfast, and a quarter of a pint of -bran tea; eat, dinner she gave me four little potatoes, and no ' fl h i a nor anything to drink. At tea I had another slice of bread and the same quantity of bran tea, being a 5 1 32 ,,, of eleven or twelve hours without anything to drink, ttod ... Za would not allow us to drink water ; the water was . 'r m . ; up. He has not heard me one lesson since I have been t'7, but he used to make me work in the fields, stable, or Ow= Thirty pounds of flour used to last sixteen of us a week,'L.. - sides the master and mistress. We had to go and woeu . :,,;) selves in a cave (we were naked all but our trou" -- 0 1 in the depth of winter, and the water froze on 10, had consequently we bad d rea df u l c hilbl a i ns . We then haa less to eat, and she told us we were rotten. W e fie to work on a Sunday the same as any other day t , took all our pocket-money from us, and would not allow u, s re keep it. The bedroom s h ave not b een c l eane d s ince I 'j a i , been there, and the sheets on my bed have not been clii n g e l t a. - and they were not cl ean w h en I went t h ere. W e were po lowed to speak to o ne ano th er . M y h an d i s very b a d with child blains, and I canr.ot write like I u se d to. He not let us write home what we lik e d, h e ma d e us say we -er a well treated. We had a calf which was dying from cold an , starvation, and we were oblig e d t o kill i t an d s ki n it ours the with our penknives ; and w e h a d a p i e o f t h e e ntrails , t ,.. inside of the head, and the eyes. which lasted for nine ~,- She has hardly any furnit ure in th e h ouse , w hi c h wa s vell 'ta r and always dirty ; there being no servant, either male or le°ll s e it There were only us, Monsieur de Bree, and an old well, whom he called his mother, and who took pleasurei:jk. treating us, and sometimes she beat me with her thlea,,,. n ot ing-stick on my chilled hands till the s k in ca me off, goi n t o work goon enough: The .'house was five miles o f Boulogne, and there Was'no means:of cominnuieating person. _ _ WILLIAM HENRY STY I ' - „wireot 'Dear Sir,—Words will -not convey-my gratitude and h fulness to-,you for-the rescue of my dear child-from worse t" ..the jawelif.deith--the pangs of lifter. heart , The sporitaneeut act does , honour 'to your fielings and - a and May the blessing 'of that- God which is promised lie uP;•- • , you and -yours kir AM. assistatice which you have given t . wit desolate and the orphan in the houi,ofiteed.;' :Be assur e. a debt which will ever remain on my Mem or y, and I trust be child's also ; and I hope to know your dear boys will ', °° , rieti n a t t e ; restored to convalescence under the judicious and careful ment of Mrs. Earp, as it will require the greatest ar e ' its such cruel abstinence, ere their digestion can be brought 10 proper tone. With respectful compliments and thanks, both to Mrs. and yourself, beliere me to remain _ Your grateful and obliged humble servant, E, Sharpe Terrace, May 5. M. STY ' S ee' P. S.—Will you be good enough to let me know the r niary expense I am indebted to you. (E.) I have been at Mons. de Bree's nine months, and h are , e f; perienced all kinds of bad treatment. The house \ra' t as large, and nearly without fur n it ure ; it was a l so v ery dir t .; t ee there was no servant, either m a l e or f ema l e , an d [lobed). Ca lled house but us, de Bree, and a decrep e id old woman . ie os his mother, and who seemed to like to ill treat us. 1 'A r e e l this g for breakfast or supper but abo u t t wo ounces °' as and sometimes I had a little butter on it, with a cup s ' ese en tea, and could not have any drink, not e v e n water, y e ; els breakfast and supper, a space of 12 hours ; the wa te ; sto es, even locked up. For dinner we had a few l',. ° `,`" e st, and sometimes about an ounce and a half 0 ' ho e, and nothing to d r iak. Wh en we were go i ng t o write letter, they made us a tart, which we h a d t o men ti on in mos the There were no regul ar sc h oo l-h ours , we use d to wors• t her grounds like comm on labourers on Sundays as well as a n Y ° e st day. Iti winter we used to play at card* every eveningt hes ti Sunday. When we were in the house, de I3ree nev er t her , us our lessons, hut we used to repeat them one to atin see cl There were about thirty pounds of flour made into b r a n d every week for about sixteen of us, besides Monsien r sre sd Madame de Bree, and when there was uot l oe t, enough they gave us medicine, and kept us " e go) We were kept without fire (with the exception of tIY O old up to Christmas Day, and the day after we were kept in a ce to damp, underground, paved kitchen, without fire or a Pia sit upon, and were without food during ten hours. l el Every morning, in winter as well as summer, w e. W obliged to go nearly naked into an underground kitche: wash. We all washed in a sort of trough, made of stun; a the same water, which was often frozen, and which, chest it had broken the ice, smelled very bad ; it was so cold tL' a stre froze to our hands, as we were not allowed to dry therm se ta had to make one own beds, and the sheets were changed but while I was there ; the bedrooms also were never cleanedl though there were t we lve empty rooms, we occupied bu t a s small ones; and Moan. and Madame de Bree slept tegeth er c e, another. We were on ly allowed to wash our feet but, e , p he ir and then it was in thedi r ty water the others had soake d " If, broken chilblains in. When th e y h a d a h a lf- star ved c3 O l. which was dying of cold and disease, de Bree stuck it, : o f we had to help to skin it with our pe n k n i ves, an d to e at 1' 3 ;0 it next day ; she made a pie of the entrails and head' ° t i t er lasted us nine days, during which ti me we h a d nu ° s ee meat, and sfbre so hungry we chewed even the h'ii i e; When we had chilblains we had physic nearly every In" t n ee for one thin slice of dry bread, and half a cu p o f bran breakfast ; three or four small potatoes f or di nn er, and n ° e ho per. I was dot allowed to speak to my younger brothers,e,i to told me when he used to give the COWS their food, lie e nd eat the beans they left at the bottom of the V i e, 11 0 when he came home his bones were nearly throue `ye skin, and he could not sit without a pillow. I ,, V , l lsode used to go out for walks, Monsieur and Madame de s' s r i e e e e nla and we used to follow on foot for great distances. f re; sometimes bought a small pie, cut it up among all e s :so' serving of course nearly half for herself and M. de u r made us pay about a penny each for about a mouthfu l, she et which we had no other dinner. The house was detached use spe five miles from any town, and when I contemplated m . the I found it impossible, as, if I had got out of the ho 1 bat e gendarmes would have brought me back before I now uous eti reached Boulogne, and as nobody ever came to the t ea. had no means of lettir g anybody k now h ow we were tres_.t. May, 1841. THOMAS EARP, 156, Fleet -st y I s ou' I entered M. de Bree's school, Chateau de la CaP e,e : s eik logne, July 14, 1840. From the beginning we had o° ' i t fet cient to eat, and were badly treated, kicked, and strae r etes • the slightest offences. I was found with a letter I ha d r e - d i n e home, saying how we were treated. M. de Bree follol,eateer, about, flogging me with a whip of twelve thongs of e fires and shut me up. During the winter we have only 115 04 1 / on two or three occasions, although it was elsceerk, to cold : and were often sent down into a cave ti ll 7 - se t I° 3 keep us warm. I was confined in bed with bad '' - o etre'., nearly four months. During that time ` ca l a s / washed, nor had any change of linen. Every othe r f e et" ` or so, I wa s obliged to go down to show nlY t i se t when I was flogged and called names, till I c onfessed ere tehe' was my own fault that my feet r e m a i ne d b a d, having no t f e e t e them, or else they would have healed ; an d that it sc ow want of nourishment. But that was un t ru e; the e ` 01 0 was forced through fear of punishment. During th e ,.. e i of : was in bed I was nearly sta.: ved. My breakfast cons i st oo f thin slice of bread, and milk and water, and my _,' li i ntl iege or three dry potatoes, and sometimes a very silo. s ' 030, " e i meat, but very seldom. I was fetched home by 113 - 7 m eal' and still remain in a most emaciated state, and under tle A: treatment. My friends are all shocked at my trii' era e ' tt eh l ' pearance. Indeed, lam not able to express half the c , I have experienced. CHARLES WILS ° b ob. 3, Vauxhall-plate, South Lam afr; The LORD MAYOR having requested the attendan ce , ° e re s l i !., Earp at the Mansion-house, that gentleman, and th e on of other children who had been at the school, waited 1, 0 50 Lordship, and confirmed the statement ; and his Lord, e ;`,. eir' that he considered it to be his duty to make the atroe;" cumstances as public as possible. I mo/ a tit el" GOLD WATCHES.--A variety of eleP f t e t l efo, 4, 1 carefully finished Second-hand Gold W a t c h es , many ° 16 , 0 10 accordance with the latest taste, with Gold Dials , h, &c., are offered for selection, price Eight Guineas ea e • At T. CUX SAVORY'S, • I ( S" Watchmaker, Gold and Silversmith, 47, Cernh' l doors from Gracechoech-street), Lonelne• islit c A printed warranty will be given, with fixed tern w i t t the \Vetches will always receive any attention requi re ' Second-hand Watches purchased in exchange' eet" 311' SPOONS, FORKS, &c., superior to Silver os:; rability, equal in appearance. Table Spoons er F ° Test i l Dessert, 10s. ; Tea Spoons, ss. per d ozen; Table Can f 0 .11 , 0 V inches high, 7s. per pair; the particular metal bete, these articles are made is so like sil ver , th a t it can °"• 0 0 14 T from it by the stamp; every article made in silver a tared in this material by A treC t if•P e RIPPON and BURTON, Well s - s t ree t, olfo r— il s et ese Who, to prevent imposition, confi ne th e sale di' t• t. Catalogues of prices gratis BIRTHS. Lt 114'd' , . b. On the 30th ult., the lady of T. Collins, E'q'' 'pot, Somerset, of a son. OW' On the 2d inst., at Brussels, the lady of Sir G. ete , d Seymour, her Majesty's Minister, of a son. On the sth just., at Tulse-hill, Brixton, the 1114 o f V Feel e ' Cotter, Esq., of a daughter. On the 7th inst.„ - in Fetter-lane, Th..eet-street, 31°. ~.„.... of a son. ___.------- 0 , MARRIED. ifey.. si e On the 31st ult., at Westbury-upon-TrYta. it " ) 1 W ll ' i to Pakenham Despard, son of the late Lieutenant-Colontdaup Despard, of the Royal Fusileer s , t o E m ily, younge r 'l' , of the late William Coffin, Esq., of Bath. „, Pl it er On the sth inst., at St. Mark's, Myddelton•Squan—d daub- Small, Captain of the brig Thunder, to Marie , s e q °- { Vii' of the late David Morley, Esq. gto o, (t i l e On the sth inat., at St. Mark's Church, ICe milli n 11 , `) Liam Papineau,. of Kenni ng t on , t o H ar riet Call 0, ~rell. same place. , be r.• 10, On the Bth inst., at St. George's Church, Cl u 3, er e (or B. Ceske, Esq., R.N., second son of the late 11 ,1 c i d oll E , q., of Raneliffe Hall, Yorkshire, to .Lliza, cecon of the late J. J. Iselin, Esq.,. .of Basle li o, DIED ~,i, CO o On the 30th u lt., a t W yco rnb . DeanerY - s cu " - ,of wife of J. Mal co l m , h ea d master , ag ed 26. a, wid ° :'iotb On the 2d in s t., a t T e i gnmou th, Ann Reb ec k c ii - if-paY' John Panton Passley, Esq., late a Captain , ". 0" Royal Rifl es . ' et l i° On the 3d inst., John Ffeiler, Esq., of Geo r g e-stre ' I.IV stead-road, aged 74. rd, '‘ 4 l.'.. On the 3d inst., at Bayswater. Franeis Piera . ~,,,,,t 01, Judge and Magistrate in the Presidency of Benel . :4; 1 1, A I On the sth inst., in. 'Portland-place, Cladg' i p lace. relict of the late Edward Chandler, Fig, of "w- ` - f London y .Printed and Published by - MURDO stood., No. 112,, Strand, at 77ie Sui2.6ges, 112 ' I. the county of Middlesex,-Thursday, June 10, I°' u "~ ti , ---: t( sa t , Fen to tn 4 its e % rn! ili He too iie P I Y is tc la 44; tio I , bti Ord ;( it Ititk , tO, g, c