The Sun. — London, England, 1819-06-11 00:00:00

work of co7cession, which would best lead the WA` , to that final and healing - ajustinent with re-, 'pert Po religious exclusion, which unavoidahlY they would have to come to at last, The Noble E tben moved the second reading of the Bill for abrogating the. Tests imposed by Ihe Acts of the 25th and 30th of his Majesty King Charles the Second, The Bishop of NORwiCu expressed great sa ri s . felon on secouding the motion. He strongly conOemned the policy of proscribing 5,000,000 of loyal subjects, because other persons Nupposvd they hoder,touri the Catholic Religion better than the Catholif.ts themselves. There never was a itystem so directly opposed to all the dictates of • - Vitind tViciiWil 'and enlightened policy titan the pre sent "S ; 1) 1 0 tlit had here so ably and eloquently atatpd by the Noble Earl, who introduced the motion, that it would he presumption in him to think that any thing he could add mould give any further .weight to that speech. The spirit of Cliristiauity was repugnant to such a system, and therefore such solemn transactions as oaths, care ought to lie taken to plevent the conscience fruit) bring in soy respect reminded. lie there lore deplored that Nrenibers of that lionse were __compelled to make such a declaration as they did when tt;er took their seats ; and for himself he could on'y say; that after having taken such oaths as the law directed, he had nor unfrequently felt a very strong sensation of self-reproaCh. lie was ,further persuaded, that were it not for the glorious uncertainty of the law, and the ambigu ous terms in which the words acre expressed, that many in that place would feel as unpleasantly as tie did. Mitch had on former occasions been said of the antiquity of the Test and Corpora tion Acts ; but the question was, not whether the law was old, for antiquity never could be plausibly urged as sanctioning, injustice, but !he point was, is the law, as it now stands, wise and good ; NMI are its provisions such a's ought Pot to he infringed ? lie had no hesitation in saying, that, in his opinion, they were not so, for he could not consider tbat part of the Act in any letter light than that it was a profanation of the moat sacred ordinance of our holy religion, to make it the holder by which men were to climb to orricial situations: Such ought not on any pretev to be allowed in a free country, He there fore, on the whole, implored their Lordships to ancede to , the proposition of the Noble Earl, as, in doing so, they would be at once discharging an act of justice to the four millions of local sub- sects now prOscribed, and would he also follow ing the impulse of sound policy. The Right Re verend Prelate concluded his speech (many parts of which were inaudible at the Bar from the low tone in which he spoke), by seconding the mo tion Of the Noble Earl, lorthe second reading of The Archbishop of CaNTaattutur believed he was actuated solely in his conduct with respect to the measure in question, by an interest which he really believed influenced every one of their Lord ships, namely, the maintenance of the Protestant Government of this country in Church and State. The measure before their Lordships Was directed to the same end which a proposition lately be fore the House aimed at, but which the Howe had deliberately, af , er full discussion, decided against. The present Bill not - miry sin - led at the same end, but it set aside all intermediate in quiry through the medium of a Committee char;;- etl to inquire how any dangerous consequences to the State, by what was proposed, might he avoid- ed. The Bill vent to ahrov.are one Statute in particular, which was the only insnrmountable ob stacle remaining r 0 the admission of Catholics into both Houses of Parlian;ent. He meant the 3011 of Charles 11. The Tests in question *ere not merely speculative or dogmatical; they distinctly pointed out who seas a Catholic, or who was not. He could not think of their quarrelling with the Catholics for doctrinal opinions, though he may regret their errors, but the proposed 13111 went to do away the only insurmountable obstacle against their admissiOn into the Legislature. Such had been allowed to be the effect of the Act of the 30th of Charles 11., and it was his own decided opi nion the oath of supremacy teas not sufficient for the purpose. It was a mistake to assert that Ca tholics sat freely in Parliament before that Act ; there were many severe restraints upon them be fore, particularly the Acts in Elizabeth's reign ; they sat in consequence, as it were, fettered and hound to their seats ; and if Catholics were now brought back to Parliament, it would be in very different circumstances from those in which they sat in the time of Charles the Se cond. The measure would tend to place the Constitution in a perilous state. Let them look at what passed in the time of Charles , the Second, when there was a Catholic King, with Protest.. ant Lords and Commons ; but in the present case it may lead to a state of things, where a Protestant king would fill the Throne,' surround ed by Catholic Lords and Commons. It could not be denied that such anomalies would tend to put the two Houses into their possession. He was opposed to all experiments of a wild or hazardous nature, more especially with 'reference to the pre sem state of Europe, or to any measure which may 'lead the country into a state of confusion or danger. He trusted the 1-louse would hesitate be lore it exposed the country to any dangerous po litical experiments, and at a moment too when it was beginning io rest and respire after a long state of expensive devastating, warfare; and on these grouods he felt it his duty to oppose the Bill. The Earl of LiveaPoot, avowed, that he was not friendly to religious tests in civil matters as a general principle ; but becaose the eircuur stances of this country were of a peculiar nature, lie would ever support the religions tests which her Government hail it, its wisdom established.' • He was old enough to remember the Contentions schich had agitated this country upon the repeal Of the Test and Corporation Acts. The passing of the Annual ludemnity Acts rendered it impos sible that the former Acts could be objected to in coesequetice of arty imputed oppression in diem. In all this conflict, it was not the prac tical operation of the lawS that was looked to, but it was that thio,e Acts gave that security -to the Pt oteStant Church which it could oat h:l,le without them. IVith regard to the scru ples the Protestants might have, iu decks ing several tenets of the Catholic Church to be I enpers'itiost. and idolatrous, he wbahl ask, e..isshi any Protestant object to describe them so ? But the great question was, what was to he the effect of removing the Declaration Acts ? Wonlsl it not have the effect of admitting Catholics into Par liament ? He was ready to admit himself, that the Act of Supremacy would be a sufficient obstacle to every Catholic of a liberal educa!ion. lie would go even further: be believed that before the period of Charles 11. no Catholics sat in Par- - liament by taking the -Oath of Supremacy. It this be true, what was to be the benefit of re moving the. Declaration ? The repeal of it could do no good, while, in, the opinion of many, it might do a rear deal of harm. Were he satis fied that giving up this point as one of feeling to the Catholics would end the matter, he would Dave no objection to concede it. Did the Noble Lord sure that no more was to be attempted ? lie did tint.—(near, hear, hear !)—Attention, it wai mated, might to be paid to Catholic feeling. No doubt it ought at the same time, the feelings of Prot eat ant s were entitled tu equal consideration.. Ir was not to the prejudice of any party that he s_•onld yield, but upon a,ease of duty, and there fore he would give Isis negative to the present Bill. Lord GRENVILLE - asked, in the natoe of those %slob had founded our liberties, why their descen ()a ta were excluded from the blessings which they had securer) to us ? Ile contended, thatdoc teiiies were attributed to the Catholics by their opponents, which had no existence. All Catho lics would feel indignant at the idea of bolding a divided allegiance. They professed the saline alle giance as his Nlajesty's other subjects, and with equal ardoor and sincerity. IViin respect to the oath, which branded them with idolatry, it was taken by thousands, not , with regatid to then oavtt belief, but to stigmatize the creed of their fel low subjects. It their Lordships wished to esta blish order and to:llmnd prosperity on a solid foundation, they must be; in by silencing those odiOtia distinctions. Instead of maguitying the glamo(1 of separation, it was,the duty of the Legislature to conciliate, to reconcile, and to unite the Catholics and Protestants, if not in one common faith, at least - in the ,commou bond of social, stud the enjoyment of political rights. Would any Noble Peer lay his hand on his heart and say, that the religion of Fenelon was idolatry ?—The Catholics believed a myaiery and miracle, which it was possible for God Almighty to perform, aml liar which they con ceived they foond groutols in the Holy Script ores. It was not therefore in them an act of idolatry, but one of pure devotion. But the declaration went further. It stated dint the sacrifice of the mass, as performed by the Church qt Rome, was aidolatrous. Now he should like to know how many of the 800 who had lately taken that oath, had ever read the mass service, or inquired how it was perfOrmed by the Church of Rome ? Was it wrong to endeavour to remove from the country the stigma of so tiojust an appeal to the Creator Why should the Protestants thet»selyea be bound on the subject ? They might consider the service of the mass improper, but not idolatrous, and that was the °piano) of Bishop Hera ing and Archbishop Shelton. Let their Lordships have honest y enough to tell the•CathOlica that they excluded them, not on political grounds, but because they were Ca tholics, and believed in Transubstantiation. it was vain to think that the subject would rest where it now seas ; God forbid it should.-- , It was said that the present Bill was not the result of 4 Committee. But the Com mittee had been proposed and rejected on the ground that sortie specific measure ought to be brought forward. Now the specific measure came, and 'a Committee was represented as the only course which could be adopted !--(hear, hear !) The Lone CHANCELLOR objected to th e pre sent proposition, because, if it were adopted, it would effect the complete emancipation of the Catholics, without security belt% given on their part to their Protestant brethren. lale contended that the oath of supremacy had been introduced for the purpose Of letting Men know what true alle giance was: The measure in cootemplition tended to overturn the law of the country. Ile RdWil(ed that the religious test of political opinions im posed upon the Catholics might he ata evil, but it was one which the necessity of the case retpiii•ed. He then took an historical view of the Acts pass ed in favour of die Catholics anal against them, ever since the reign of Mary and Philip. He 'maintained that the Catholics could not avail themselves of the Indemnity Bill to take office, as 1118 t Bill was passed every year, and Pddia- HMO would have a speedy opportunity of ascer taMing its operation, and repealing it jif it were necessary. He contended that it was as fair to establish grounds of exclusion against Roinati Catholics, as to declare that no man should sit in Parliament who had not 3001. a year. As their Lordships regarded a' Protestant King, and valued their liberties as settled in the reign of William let the m resist measures like tire present, for they would be tinpar(lonahle in the eyes of pos terity if they suffered their rights to descend to their successors in an impaired state. The Earl of Haanowny combated the arguments of his Noble and Learned friend, as they tended to sinew that Catholics Were only excluded 00 the groom) of their religion. It had been said that the declaration against transubtatitiation was only a religious test of political opinions, but why should such fairest he required, when other tests of an entirely,poileical nature, and of the ni*ost satisfactOry description, were previously given ? With respect to•the declaration that the worship of the Church of Route was idolatrous, be could not jobs in it. He was ready to allow that the practice of the lower and uneducated orders, in praying to the Saints, might be idolatrous ; butt - if he looked to the doctrine of the Rotnish Church on that point, as settled by the Council of Trent, he could not conscientiously say that it was ido latrous, although he might consider it improper. Earl BATHURST contended, that the Oath of Supremacy was not sufficient to exclude Roman Catholics from the House of Gnomons. The de claration against Transobstantiaticm had been, ad.led to accomplish that object, But the present , Bill went further than the repeal of that declara tion, and laid a foundation for repealing the o.ith of Supremacy. On these grounds he 'sh'ould vote Against the measure. Eat! GREY replied at great length, and followed the d'itrent 'Noble Lords thcir several objec tions to his Bill. Against the insinuations thrown out by the Noble Lola whb bad jest snt dustn, he placed his uniform eouduct iu Parliament ) and then lamentrd that the Noble Lord should have known so little of him as to suspect he conceal ed any lurking design different front the awe he put forth. He again reheated that his only ob ject in this Bill was to efface the galling character given the religion in the Statute Bonk, and thus nrike a beginning of that harmony between Ca tholic and Protestant, which, whatever might be the result of it, he did not doubt of seeing one day established. The House then divided, and the numbers were— Contents 49 Proxies Not-Contents .... Proxies Nlajorit y ;Against the fill ---59. Adjourned at 1-1,11-pist '14,1 ye .this Morning. HOUSE OFLOMNIONS. FOREIGN ENLISTMENT BILL. \Tr. Sheriff Roberts app e al e ll at t h e v oili t w i t h fi Prtitioo from the Corvoration of the City of London, n t zlinst the Foteit.tn Enlistment BIT Mr Alderman WOO!) said, Ova the Petition had been azreed to in a tr , ry full Cnort, and hoped it would he token into the serious consideration of the Hauge, cumileil as it did from so respectable a hods as the Corporation of London. — Read, and ontered to lie 01) the table. Mr. S'lqt_%, ItT woRTLEy ~,„,ed that a Committee he ap pointed 'to tegutate the Stampiii;.; of Woollen Cloths.— Atp to. EiGrur OF PETITION Mr. Alderman WOOD wished to !mow ft oro the Chair, if it Ivas competent to present P,titions a;z- t inst the proposed taxes in the present siag-e of the I)roceetliog-s. Thy E rep!v, ti at he had examined the .1 0 0, n‘,l 4 on th e g uf+ject, and found no precedent to warrant Petitions heing• presented tiler such circonitanct=.s as the present, hat that it would he for the Itnise to exercise its Own e?i:cre+ion t, non the intoter. Mr. (!. F. 1'AI:0 E 4 ',resented a Petition from)) It earlinz agOnct the Forei4n Eolistinent Bill.—Ordered to lie on the TIONEYWOOD preqent,d :apetition to the same ef fert f,mi the ship-owners of Itatosg,tte.—Ordered to lie on the tahle. Mr. Aldernym WAtTLIMAN hrouzht in the Mock Auc tion Pry vention Bill.—Read a first time, and urdereJ to be read a second time on Monday next. TAX ON FOR.F.IGN WOOL Mr. STUART WORTLEY presented a Petition from the Tru=tees of the Linen Hall of Leeds azainst the Tax on Fo reizn Wool.—Ordered to lie nn the table. Mr. It. IVILLIAMS presented a Putition from the Land holders of Carnarcon, prayi!ig for protectimr, duties on the importation of Forpign Corn.—Ordered to lie on the table. CONGREVE presented a Petition frqn the Ship- Owners of Plymouth against the Foreign Eulistment Ordered to lie on the table. A Petition was presented from a rilronzh in the County of Suffolk ag-ainst the Foreign Enlistment "Ml.—Ordered to l:e 011 the table. On the motion of Mr. WALL: 4 ,CE, the Tionse resolved itself into o Committee on the Salt Ditties' mu, and the Report was ordered to he taken into further consideration on Monday next. The frish Church Rates Bill was reaq a third time, and passed. Mr. CHICHESTER presented a petition from the Inha bitants of Belfait. in Ireland. a4ain)t the Foreign Enlistment Bill.—Ordere , l to lie on the table. Mr. BARNET presented a petition from the City of Ro chester ar.rainst the Foreign Enlistment Bill; and ohserved, that the sentiments of his constituents were unanimous a f ..,raio,t a noi, th e ohject of which was to form an utniatnrol league with the tyrannical Ferdinand against the Coloni-ts of South America, with whom it was our interest to form a f i -knol v co n nection. Lard BINNING wished that the petition should he re ceived hot, at the same time, was decidedly hostile to the praprr of it. The petition was then rend, and ordered to 1k on the table. sEIAW moved .for an Account of the Sums paiit by the Hotel-keepers in Dublin, in support of the. Police Establiih went there, for the last six years.—Ordered. scurcil CRIMINALS. The Scotch Criinittals Bill was brought in, and after a short conversation between the Loen ADVOCATE and Sir M. RtnLEY, wa , read a first time, and ordered to be read a second tin:, to-morrow (this day). Mr. ACME presented a petition from the Inhahitants of the county of Forfar against the Foreign Enlistment Bill He observed that he entirely concurred in the prayer of the petition, and said that the elfin of the Bill now before tile, House would be to alienate the affections of the people of South America from this 'country. • The petition Wag then read, and ordered to lie on the table. Sir EDWARD KNATCHIWI.L presented a petition to the same effect from the Inhabitants of Deal.—Ordered to lie on the table. . _ Mr. CALCR AFT made a few observations, after which the petition was ordered to lie on the table. COPY-RIGHT ACT. are notice, that he would tali(' an early next Sess;on to propose a 11,1CitSUFU relative t o o p} i ) l t i r i . e . t T ( 11 ' .., i i p 'A t , y l , .. B i , . ;: r :t i li t N e A n:c t • . Mr. C.CAI,Vi.:ItT presented a Petition tram the inhabi tants of the Borough of Southwark against the Foreign En. listment Bill:: Nrr. NI. A. TAYLOR regretted that his Majesty's Ministers were not present when these Petitions Were vresented, as they would pereelee from them how geueral was the opposition of the country to the measure in 'question. 'Mr. LUSHINGTON said, that his Nl:tiesty's,Ministess•were not insensible to the feeling. of the country on the subject, and that they were willing that the question should receive the fullest discus ion. Mr. CA I.CRAFT commented on the neglect of his Majes ty's Ministers in not attending in their places at the proper boor, when public business was to commence. Mr. Gunllium, the Chancellui• of the Exchequer, and Sir M. W. nidiev, said a few words, and the petition was then lead, and ordered to be printed. Mr. BIRCH presented a petition from the Merchants of Nottingham, acaillst the Foreign Enlistment Bill. He ob served, that ships were now waiting in the port of Cadiz to convey British troops to South America, and that a proceed ing of this hind could not he consonant with an, impartial neutrality'.—Petition read, and ordered to lie on the table. GAOL DELIVERY. Mr. WESTERN, in rising to call the attention of th e Ho use t o a a- lo tion, of which he bad already Nivel' notice, said, that it was not his intention to trespass longer on the indulgence of the Uonse than he could possibly avoid. The object he had in view was, that an Address be presented to the Prince Regent', praying that he would be pleased to direct a more frequent Gaol Delivery. it wits one of the soundest maxims of our system.of ju risprudence, !bat every man was presumed to be innocent, till his guilt was proved before a Jury of his countrymen ; and he (Mr. Western) was therefore of ()pillion, that no avoidable time • sboold be lost in bringing persons accused to trial. lie knew it was a delicate matter to propose any alteration in the existing system of criminal law, yet the proposition he had to sub mit appeared,to hint to .be called for by the ur gent circumstances of the case. The lionourihlw Member then entered into a minute detail of the several star in es. enjoining a frequent gaol deli rery, rind quoted the opinion of Lord Coke on the sub ject. lie coutended, that the present crowded state of the gaols throughout the country ten detecl the proposed measure necessary; and ob served, that he had searched among th e records in the Crown Office for various precedents with reference to th'e question. Ile then'stated rOus cases of long imprisonment before trial ; anti dtvelt particolady on the hardships to -which persons acquitted had been subject.— Ti e next subject he adverted to, was the insnMcieney gtit.?lt for rite i'ecept;oo of the crowds of prisoners who v.tere placed to' gether, without any regard :o elassifiLatiou nr goo:1 order. The Honourable Member con' chided with moving, that an Address (which 1 1 g read) should be presented to Isis Royal Highness the Prince Regent, ti,e purport of which was' that imprisonment, had considerably increased in Engine' and Wales since s Return lead been made op the subject, which his Royal PlighneSl was graciously pleased to order to Bate laid be" fore Itinr ; am' praying, that he would be gra• cionsly pleased to older a more frequent gaol tfr7 livery, agreeably to the law of the land, and particularly to the S;ntute of the 4th of Elwara 111. chap. 2. enjoining a delivery of the gaol¢ three times a-year, and oftener, if necessary' and that the liati,.ll %vonhl defray any additiona l expence to be incurred by the proposed measure , . The ATTORNZY-GENERAL Could trot admit tbK the Stature, regulating the Quarter-Sessions, 0 ,• all applied, to the Assizes ; it would be impossibl e for the object of the Honourable Member to bit obtained unless the number of Judges were iris creased ; for lie w i ts well assured that it would 14' impossible that a greater number of goal deliverer . could he held without the greatest sacrifice to di, interests of suitors in the different Courts. The evil of which the Honourable Gentienran heti complained, hacl been remedied in a great degreo by t' , e Commission granted to AtigiStrateS to hots' Sessions of the. Peace tour times in the year; 3 would be possible that great convenience may b e offoided, if the Magistratei would fix a day 0 adjournment, and by regulating the recognizatwegs they would have the advantage of sitting eight times in the_ year instead of four. Conduced theft. the measure proposed could nut be carried kW/ 4 fleet without the most serious ineouvenisinces,b 4 should move the previous question. Mr. BENNET said, the evil coinplained of cane' loudly for revision and inquiry. He thou4h t inch attached 10 his Majesty's Minister s it, not having proposed some specific plan. 'l 9 " stances had occurred in one of the northern coo" ties of persons having been confined e l even mon ths previous to their trial, and then they had been ge' quitted. This was frequently a ;treater punish mem than %void,' have been inflicted hrd they been found guilty. lie hoped, it something was not done by his Majesty's Ministers, his Hon. Friend would move fur the appointment of a Committe d it, the next Session. Mr. BATH U RST observed, that the Hon. Metn' ber who spoke last had wandered Ruin the (la" tion, as the case of the tour northern counties "" 19 a peculiar one, not bearing on the general pill ) " ciple of jurisprudence. Sir L. I. NATCHRULL could not agree in tb g opinion of the Aunt ney-Getieral as to increasing the number of Sessions ; he would recommen a the Hun. Mover to withdr,w hiJ motion f or the present, upon an understanding that the Mitriste." should institute an inquiry into the Acts le i/ the subject previous to the nem Session. Mr. BuxToti hoped his Hon. Friend would per: Severe, for he Was convinced that - great practica l good.rnu,t be the result. Mr. WESTERN briefly replied, after which the motion was negatived without a division. Mr. LANBTON presented a Petiion from SO' derland against' the Foreign EnlistinenC Read, and ordered to be piloted. Lord CASTLELEAGH presented a petition frm the Protestauts of the County of Down a gains t any further co»ces , Aun to the Catholics.--iteLn i and ordered to lie on the table. CALCRAFT presented a petition from Dove r against the Fo;tip Enlisttnent Bill ; a t , i.qii l3r petaion was likewise presented from Gravesend.'" Read and ordered to he, printed. Mr. %V. SMITH presented a, petition from tl te Unitarians of Norwich against the Matt iage Act' which was reed and ordered to lie on the tobfr . The lion. Member gave notice, that. on Wedne v day next he should make a roolion on the subjec COLONIAL ESTABLISHMENTS: Mr. Hume, pursuant to notice, rose to mo' e for certain papers relating to our Colonial tiVste nl • It was his opinion (ha! the Establishments of to; 0 Colonies Bt-Torded much room for reduction '; retrenclim,..nt. Since 1795, when we oblainen. possession of Ceylon, it %ea.: a remarkable tdc f ; that no ac count of ihe revenue or expen&nre that Colony hod been nceired. Larne ,:ortyc it"( 1. been annually voted in gross atnong the Arm! ' Estimates, without any account or informati on relative to. the particulars of the purposes (" C which those sums were applitd. He thought i( was the duty of the House to know exactly tb d , amount of the expellee of each Colony, and g ( ' examine in what way the amount of such elv'' peaces could be reduced. The 11°111. would OV case him for mentioning that he Lain himself per ° sonally been resident in the various Colonies O P which lie meant now to call the a!tention of House, and that on the points which he meat !row to touch he had received'. information Oil the spot, and which induced him to think tbof further inquiry was necessary. No mitts 160 0' With more alarm than himself the expense . of our Military Eitablishments, and t here' fore it Was incumbent on him to state in whog particulars' he thought unnecessary and wanto n extravagance prevail. d. The whole amount ("' money granted on the estim,,tes for do' hing t he troops in the Colonies %vas 998.0001.—the too l amount. of the troops being 30,(100 and some 'O n : 'beds.' 01 this whole nninher of troops, 0) 0 ' 10.000, sir nearly our-third, were stationed Ceylon. In all the oilier braitcht!s of expellee, he stated the atnottnt of souls voted to be eqtnil l)f exorbitant. When it was considered that tbc re was not how a single hostile stag flying on be seas to the Last of the Cape of Govt! Hope. i f ' ft , mt be allowed that %re had immense naval fac i, li!ies nt cwaveyiug troops' to,assist arty of Ot ls Colonies in that quartet in case Or a sudden att3c 4 f and in case the force was thou:4hr inadequate 01 repel the danger. This con-ideration w 34 enough to meet the responsibility which by thought to attitch to any attempt to nisi) the military forme in the Colonies. In (het Stall Department in plutictilar, there WA,: grOr r,orn for reduction. This lie voted not only his own knowledge, but also on the airbor ilf of pet - stills of the highe»t authority on !tic ° subj-ct. The Finance Report of 1517 1)11' 1 s' IPrt tbet ihal "Ptl call !ive I ,tV4) Ri~: i 'soil heir *el t, th e .!%141 Ia ? ) lr vr ( IC) 1) nb sleet, 11: 'SCA ON!, IThu