The Sun. — London, England, 1819-11-24 00:00:00

le" ,b4' eir' his :ry nd ,0- gf, "1. 1• Is • Il l'elsts nor protecting force agaitrst a don”slie , I! N.: wa n who kilece the state of the cotinity ' r y the neee.!rsity of strong measiires.— nent %vas lo , •ked op to for proteetion— ''i!-)1"1(1 to affnid it, if for no other reason, e," ; ' 0 justify th e loyalty of the people. He the sentiments and recommendations `)Peceb. would make a due impression opt o ,!'"e, and that when the promised informa ,l,.".Ndrl b e laid before them, they would apply t4J'l'll.ttnetits to the consideration of it, as well tl sil eb a wise and berm tidal system of legisla ie,," Woolf) completely counteract the lois ," projects of the ill-disposed in the cotto n, tie then moved the Address. st;; VUST, in seconding the Address, oligerved nt - ,' lt , : , e.YPs of the country were now upon their et, ( ''Pgs• The example of our venerable So tir,"---hs 'virtues, his emineut services to his tt t(i t Ys would be long f e lt. He it WB3 Whlo pre t D the peopl e o f t his c ountry, when doting. t;, mess of IY D evolutionary principles, the pro 4bout to itangfer to the pages of our own C' thefollie s • lid eceentt lc crimes of the t ith d r e) r .... (140i1(1 cheers.)--The need not If e l4l, d of the had spit it which now appeared tjrb e ountry ; bit/iv-beating the very Judges on eles,rim! abtisiiig all who were placed in slate, and not only doing this, hut to attack .the Throne Hell. Every nietn 'til,,lbe aristocracy was set down as a corrup -140: and all were marked as enemies, save the ' 1 01', x4 , 15 who liapoetied ►to wear wkitite , ..ltats,4 rid I)t ti 4 . 44 ili ngc torittig enough to make speeches 11 4 1 vv 'ggon. For the evils which were maul -146 Ittei nse i ve daily a rglind Its, remetlies were 'l ; Pl'lletl., but that wassuot o at t X . them. ; 1 -- ;',or 10.9 patt. said by a Peer of the realn a 4. rt tog poe: ; ld ilY prints, that there w Crown a 4 14: 01 1 to en cr oa ch •on "betties. of the t „ ... -If such an intention' existed, the best %th y r e d uce it b e iosdemoy t he ti pietext. ne Geolleittert who cattle rom I tao.isil dis vvl'ia, Blight he materiarto crate the condition i tty . 4 (2 " many distant districts were 1143ced•--- k's l. l ' ll lLlil be itifortne d of,.the nuttlefous inert ;►lll',:" have taken place. , --the revolutionary flags 'nilitaev at ray that bare characterised se 4')c He would refer them, fur hie i t' some resolutions passed at the Nliddle 4tet h- :eting a sh o rt t rate since. With re - i ; ; ` ) the arrangement for the addition to r 4 t itly force, lie would refer the house to stn lfviho w(2,o,licinilyexplain it. But for ti , e sfuottid say, he' perfectly concurred necessity alleettl for such addition. It " been eta :living to those who declared excisable articles, that there was Ftery revenge of la . st i cc. 'Wit t.::',,tlt:ftying• find that an improve ment was 'ir e „ itfaec. Our relations with for: igo „A t h e appeirance, of perortneitt . Con - tittelital ? r ation', too Inns; tle s,tll~ }' 5 'u col a r tiwc opinions, : siriSh to had it:i op• 1 4 repo , e, and are now Ilki,osed rather . 1 t ; 1 : those ills they have, thari fly to out s"tv k now not of. " Tie attempts to 't.. rt e i liotise of Coalitions would ' lie test nit ry lite Acts—the atteotigns to the p.oblic te~f't Anil comforts of the !louse of Commons e" 1 . .l he pi-oeress of infidelity and blasphemy 4 1' • farming.. The sco ff ers of our Littirgy,. lt e ,' as t h e 11;hj e i ts elf, were prosectetil, tll4 ;iti 's , td. puut . Omt-nt. We re all—of every: , intetested in the of the Chtis . tiait religion ; fur i'n 1 11 14 .1 re w e superior to tIA beasts, it it was not ;'la,,l"vrlettge of God ? lle begged pardon for on their time. Ile implored the House, 1: 7 - 4 4 ,, r 'd Tot y„ to retnern6.,-r what it was that 1.1 d to them, and io remember t lip - Y, Ilere caller) on to protect what was to t • re pro I St" and tat t we „ A t 'fcis.,--(llear, hear, hear .) t x . l ` l •lressr; 'Which was as usual, an echo to !qlic , was•then read .from the Chair.. J°tti 4 `!. l :: ll Nglr - bvlie.ved , that in tvl.at he was !propose, be was departing from the fly rftlinarily pursued on all preceding occa- I tlc ti l 4 th e present •; bin he felt the less doing, as the circutpstttoces /1 1? 1, 1; prim t o act in that manner were cl‘issi '4l4 , all whi c h hid glue before them. It hh~idatesip:cted that he would enact the further '',(4,; 1 4 0 n . 0 f the.asto!rriopsof that part of the tvqs. understood by all were :414 ' i t 4 .1 1 Y Co be" titatleoot by papers . to be cone th Ity Ih e II nose, b e f ore he would attempt c4 C e "' ll qatect However incoovenieot to the )• * ' ; Hi i AntendroeUt on the first. ;J'y . (1 1 . 1 1 Ile at Sessions int •gltt be, he do ot. t that ,t,I t " 4 must feel as he did, that Dot, a moment s b 0 • - • inst in-the pre,,ent state of -affairs, in, thy foiwa id and tailing. upon tba House to t nt Part of the Honourable Mover'sstate. not au ec h o o f the Royal Speech : ith'ir;khe t "ssured.t he. I:10110111'1We :\?(IeeF,C0111(1 re-Itort or thp:l did at all those bla,s -o 1 1); ri e ti , (l cietrlne.s : Wliiti);,b had been attempted to . 1 %1% 7 .`td througlinutAlte country ; but w hien , t rl„, - , r9 r. us, 1. 0 l . h e en s Preveot t l, by the timely Gent t ` ! n Cie the I +Ws. He did not wish at fg 1 0 cut/c r . ou • this subject; because he tl e. ,"tore fit .acca.sion would. offer it - fur 4esfttfure lt period. He could, not jteo a l ahcl 0 4 1 11 y 11 .e.iri that the progwss of t. irrelieTitin Were grown to 5u...11 a height ti ‘ t .la„ e laws in their Present state %vete un will) them.. By. the vigilant con liqtt 01 I . l lVl : lo. lVitit'ue exercise of !aft's On ltee Magistrates, le 1 min persuaded no atitli kl/4t will be tomtit wantittg., ip order li t wl) what is eilled disati,ction xenon g the. b ut it is • 't• nof a differcorliature, t , %sq. d (pleb 19 I MT ) • lat kind iti4y be t)ece''"'Ytpt. fur 4 11 11' I mtl (- °+Tti a people not posscssiog sAlicieot bf 4: n ce • in the rolotioistration :item: I 60: ?i f hte. Sir, to, declare, that the disalft:ction iti„ l 44?ootry ar i ses from th e grc,ts 'till.; pressure ) " -- -alear bearcontinuing i li t !' 1 11 -$: 4)- d 4 y to . citioc, will continue to pro llit"rne results. It was c, wily nine months stilt I : 10 ose was congratl , l , "ed tin r le Narat ee o f t h e Revenue, Bll(l toil) !q? ' ""te of the trade anti coma:Nee of the t !l y 1, 21'; 1y ( buy who pot those wolds two the -% 14 11- -Otl e believed iv h at -teas t h en t i t t er e d, eY believed for the future would never r !it esi ,i 6 A " a if ' i 4 serve the belief of an"' one else. The Revenue bad got worse end worse ever sieve that time, and this was to be Called a ductoetion. If so, it wets IlleSP fluctuations that did all the mil. chief. He Confessed hiMself en ehirmist, an d h e tilt that lie should not diecharge his duty to him self and his country, if he did not openly state it , as his opinion, that there was not that confidence in the Horse of Commons which there ototat on •donhtedly to be for the satisfaction of the coun try. These feelings perva :ed the - higher classes ; it was not .contined to the Radicals, but had t r ade great inroads amongst the middlieg class es and many who, like him, did not in visionary schemes of Retorts:, felt that somethin2 was wrong' in the country, and a change sees neeessefy, 't he Right lion. Member, adverting to the plans of Reform, said, he was no friend to the prevalent plans of Deform. It he were asked whether he had changed his opinion of Reform, he would openly avow that he had. He confessed Ire was not so seem an advocate of the schemes of Re form as he had been in his eolith. He had not grown wiser, but had gained more experience.-- The first notions of Reform had been sown so long back as tie First American War, by 'Mr. p,i tt th e weight of whose' iloir'actei• had operated more in favour of Reform in Parliament than'had since been attained by all the means that had been employed to that eetf. Since that period this great question had slumbered in the events of the times, until tour years since, when the increasing distress, arising from the evils of that Adminis tretien, bail aeain coiled it into agitation as a re needy; and was it Mit natural that the country should blame the House of Commons as the ,Guardians of the Public' Purse, provided it was badly administered—its contents squan• shoed ? He (`tlr. Tierney) was an enemy to the leaders of the Radicals. lie wished decidedly and stronely to mark his contempt. of their understanding ; b u t a t the s a me tim e ,hi s jealousy of their object. He believed that some of- these men had availed themselves of those moments of popular clamour for Parliamentary Reform, to tiling themselves into notice, from the most sinister motives ; some from an excessive va nity to distiuguish themselves, others from a re markable paucity of iieellect, and the remainder from a desire of mischief and destruction.— (Hear, hear !)—lle begged to be understood, that he set himself as MuCli against this set of men as any Gentleman in that Horse could do.-=-(Hear, hear !)—He did not carry his dis taste to sea great a height es many—to those chess publications, which had excited the re probatiou of Government. After wh a t had fal len flow him the House would of course not be surprised that he agreed in all that had been said as to the mischief done by those Radi cal Leaders, who so jostly drew on themselves the contempt and deprecation of all honest men ; but when it was pompously stated, that hundreds cf thousands were collected together in different parts of the kiegdpni, he must, in direct tel say that lie did not believe such to be the fact. should he remembered, that these hundred (hoes:sods were made up of Men who marched front place to place (and sorry lie was thw they did so march),eand were in fact but the same band of pleyers performing in different parts. — These hundreds . of thonsends, therefore, are but 60,000, or *so,' dispersed over the disturbed dis'- isicts, These are occurrences deserving the con tempt, rather than celling', for the interposition of the , strong hand of Government. In what Other light, for instance, could be Viewed the proceeding at Birmingham, in the election which was seriously accomplished there, of a legislato rial Attorney ; they wOnld lint call him a Member of Parliament, for that tame with them was odious. It this legislatorial Attorney were to at. tempt to take hit seat in that House, he'helieved be would find it the most inconvenient seat he ever took in his life. In considering the question of Parliamentary Reform in the present times, Gentle eeu of that House must not feel too imS patient at that rigid scrutiny to which all their proceedings were subjected to out of doors. Did Gentlemen make sufficient allowance- for that vast accessiout of learning and edeication which Lai . been 'acquire& by the lower classes— the Radicals of the present day—during the lest twenty years, when the qnestion of Pare liamentary Reform was first agitated ?—Learn log is no longer, as it was then, enveloped. in a shroud of sacred mystery: There is now scarcely a peasant who is not, or !toes not think himself, capable of discussing Parliamentary pro ceedings ; and as the nation 'advances in edoce tion,. Gentlemen must be prepared to submit to ; that examination of their measures, which would proceed in proportion as their seretators became -mere enlightened day atter day. Opinions which were tolerated in those days, would now meet at the corner of every street persons who would bring to shame whoever shoeld, now entertain such language. If it were ateemp:ed to stop this plogiess in reason by means of influence—it at the headpf a military force it should be attempted to bring about a return to ignorance, the nation would be brought to the verge of a dreadful crisis, t. bleb it was appaliine, to contemplate. The Right Hon. Gentleman then proceeded to observe, that he shotild indeed have been deceived in his • lonsoiou of the Hon. Mover, it he had eliewn Itiru a to lie so completely the mouth-piece of the Noble Leader 'of his side of the Howie-, as not to hese taken notice. of - the events of the 16th of of Ateenst 'last. Never was the country in a more agitated state then prior to that day, but since then the case was completely changed, and what now constiosted the grievanees of the people, eed claimed elf 'their attene;ein was, the matter which arose ant of the' 16th of August, and is h ie despite of 'Ministers is-ill be sifted from ire end to the other. The Hose. Member then said, that he tiholll.lmove an Address to his Royal highness the Prince Regent, hoping that he would not allow a day to pass without instituting' full inquiry into the late proceeding's •at Malls chester. It was after the attainment of that ob ject, that be was aexions to know the -necessity employine a militaiy force for the dispersion of the millefoide, who hail lust their leaders. The ciAtiP2 slashing about o f the military, was: no dwibt eXaggerated, but there were still cer-. !ails thie.gs on, which it was impossible to shut one's . eyes—the lotictuary 'returns of p e riods biought in ivotieded, and the Inquests on per sons wlio met their deeik on the day of 'he meeting. There is no doubt, th e military were employed Oti account of 11 r. Naein's saying lie could tint arrest without their assistance; but wog s this dote, they shotild pursue poor, iniserahle, defenceless wretches, is by no meens 'so evident Did the Magistrates, who must have seen all this from their witedows, interpose their aoteority to protect them from the drawn sables of their pur suers ? Why were the yeomanry, composed e e it is of Gentlemen, who during the lest four months, have had their properties awl lives eedengteed these men—why, he 'repeated, were these men employed, who, if all the troops in EiljilOO had been in the town, are the only forces o Iticll should have been ordered ont of it It was not too much for him, voider all the circumstances of the casee to call for an important iuqeiry into the proceed ings at Manchester. lie was aware that it would be highly improper to prejudge any question about to be brought before the ordinary tribunals of the country, bet he was not aware that aey cause was pending which would bring the transactions of the Mit of August before a Court of Justice. The trial of Mr. limit could not do this, as that for which he was to be tried, a censpiracy, must have 'elicit place, if at all, before the time of the meeting. Solar as he %vas info' u sed, no proceedings were in progress !het would bring the dispersion of the mob on the IGtli August at Manchester be fore a Court of Justice. Bet if there were, it would not make a shade of differeece. They (the House of Comm ins) were the .great inquest •if the nation, guff when it came to their knowledge that, at a public meeting, a great number of per sons had been mehned, and sonic killed, were they to be told that they were not to inquire into the eiremustnnces of the case, as cousin trials were pending, and the parties aggrieved ought to he lett tO seek redress for themselves? He should like to know how the poor sufferers were to ob tain redress against a body of Megistratee. The present case was one which peculiarly called for their interference. It was toot a case in which John Thompson bad knocked down George Jack son, in a quarrel with which nobody but them selves had any thing to do. This was a case which came to every one. He should like to know what could be thought of the Lord Lieute nant of a County, himself a Minister, who, on a requisition being sent to hint, %ehich was going to the Sheriff, the object of which was to call a Meeting, not to inquire into the proceedings which had taken place at Manchester, but to pe thion the Ptince Regent to call the Parliament together, that a Parliamentary Inquiry might take place.—What, would be said to the Lot d Lieute nant of a county, who being one of his Majes ty's Ministers, bad, upon receiving this requisi tion, written to the Slreriff to whom it• was to be forwarded, desiring hitt) not to grant the Meeting, " because it would bOunconstitutionel," lie would ask if such conduct did not seem to show a suspicion of the House of Commons ? If this did not amount to a breach of their privileges, it was against' all decorum, as it went to announce to the Whole country that those who wished to stand well with men in. office must not ,attend such meedtegs as had recently taken place on the subject . ' of .tbe proceedings at Manchester, When be saw these things, be - was convinced that an lequiry must tape place. 'Though it should not he granted to•night, be was quite satisfied that it must ultimately be gone into. The Hon, Mover had called upon theM to ley aside all party feelings, and unite for the public good. He wished Ministers had shown that they were dis posed to do so. 'Be i bow had they endeavoured to unite all parties ? Why, by dismissing Earl Fitzwilliam from the Lord Lietitenautcy of the Nest Riding'of Yorkshire, for no other offence than that he had differed from the Lord Lieu tenant of whonehe had just spoken, by calling for that inquiry which the other had opposed. - He did tint think there was a man iii the country with whom the people sympathieed more warmly then they did with Earl Fitzwilliam.—(Hear, hear, hear !)---The Right "Immutable - Gentleman proceeded, amidst loud cheers, to eulogize the past services of Earl Fi:zwilliam, and to cen sure his removal. The Constitution of the Country was at stake in the debate of that night. Wes it the intention of Ministers to gee . vern the country by a military force, by severe laws, mid by coercion ? If this were what they wished, and if in this the House thought fit to indulge them without enquiry, it would .be use- • less for him, or for any ceher Man, to raise his voice there in favour of the liberty of the people; from that Moment they vvould - lie at the mercy of the Minister; and the fatal line of separation would he drawn between the upper and the lower ' classes of society. Ile concluded by moving, as an amendment, - the addition 'of words to the Address—" 'assure his - Royal Highness, that, called together at' a period of such unexampled distreis and extraordinat y agitation in some of the most populous manufacturing districts, the Haase winkd immediately proceed to take into its most serious consideration the im portant linnets set forth in the Speech,—humbly to express to his Royal Highness their reproba tion of the attempts made by individuals t o infl ame the lower classes.by , engaging theM ip schemes, injurious to the. peace of the country, and ho•t ile to its Constitution: which they (tbefit/use of Cam. mons) were determined to maintain against ever.; species of encroachment or attack. That while they were thus determined to uphold the atoll°. rity of the laws, they telt it to be their duty so to conduct themselves as to - satisfy the people of the country that their representations should not fail tti receive that ready attention which was indispen sably necessary to their safety and - freedom ; and that, deeply.regretting the events of the IGth of August, that House . , without pronouncing an opiniOn On what had occurred on diet melancholy occasion' at Manchester, felt that the transac;ions alludedTo called for an early, diligent, and inquiry, on-thepart of the •Houseeie order to prove that (he measures of severity which had been resorted to were the result of the most urgent and una voidable necessity, or that the Coostitu tion mei slot be violated, and the lives of the pco• pie sacrificed with impunity." The Marquess of TevlsTocie seconded the Ainenthnent. lie strongly insisted on the necTs tity-oi 6tielliatiog the people by innitutius an inquiry into the proceedings at Man chester. On this occasion be I n parry feelings would he laid aside ; aod; for himself ; :-e orelared that be would only support that pro a osiu ioo Which he thuOight best calculated to promote tha welfare of the people. He had agreed with the Noble Lord opposite, that the How-c, in ter- minating the Pro:Jetty Tax, had adoou e d a mea sure of relief for themtelves, bur none for 'the people. If tl:e Chancellor of the Exchequer were to propose a3l new Property Tax, he, fur rote, would vote for it. R o t then those Tq'neS MOSE be diminished which pressed most heavily on the people. .This done; and a System of economy and retrenchment adopted, Melt, and not till then, he would he content to vote fur a ne•-v Pro perty Tax. The House should act caotiously, lest they drove the, people to desperation by re ' fusing iin into the late proceedings, end by resteina:ically opposing themselves to every pro position for a Reeorm. Till some Reform were effected, he was of opinion that that House ne ver would, and never ought to have that weight which it was always desirable that a House of Commons should possess. TheiNoble Marquess proceeded at considerabledength to:cOthunetut on - the Inquest at Oldham--ou the Answer given to a late City Address, -in toue that was almost inamlible in the Gallery ; and again set felt!) the importance of attending to the wishes islet prayers of the people, and, above all, of avoiding to do Boy thing that might seem like treating them with rigour or contempt. Lord dAsTi.e..Rl 4 46 said, after the amend ment which had been moved, and the speeeh which it loud been prefaced, be thoughl - ti t e House would feel that it was impossible for.hiii not to offer a few remarks on some of thelOPlea which had been brought:into discusiion., He was -sure that they Would feel there never Was a period in the history of the country in which a"more awful responsibility tested on Ministers than that which now attached to them. Feeliog this, and lookin at the state of the nation, they Itad thought it ne cessary to call Parliament together, and, omitting to do this, be was of opinion that they would have compromised their duty to the Crown,and neglect ed the best interests of the country. In the debate of this night, and in the discussions which would follow, he hoped that that temper would be main tained which the dignity of Parliament required, and which was not less called for by the state of -the country. Whatever the Right Hon. Gentle man might say of that House having lost the con fidence.ot the people, (and . much of his speech had a tendency to diminish public confidence, and thus opposed itself to the practical purpose of their meeting), he was of opinion,- that by the , manner in which it had faced the greatest chili culties,--,-hy the courage and firmness which it had displayed,—and by the anxiety it had mani- • tested for the welfare of the people, it had de- ,• served, and possessed the confidence of the public. %triter, in the-name of God, but that : confidence conk, have supported and enabled them to catty the country trinmphaotly throtio th e greatest clangers that had ever menaced a nation, and that any Government had ever had to face It was a great satisfaction to his mind to , ; learn, that the Rig,ht Hon. Gentletw.n haul no • other reason for prdposing Auuentlineot, bat he had hoped to gain from that Amendment more precise information with respect to the sentiments of the Right Hon. Gentlemen, than he found in it, as, he had declared it was necessary that every Member should speak out. Ile did not find art example of the sort in the Amendment of the Right Hots. Gentleinan. It merely went, in ge neralterms, to call for a Parliamentary Inquiry with respect to the late proceedings at Manches ter, and to combine the expression of a Resolu tion to uphold the authority of the Laws, with that of a determination to maintain the rights and liberties of the people. lie seemed to think the whole :night be got rid of by a course of proceeding Which be and his friends' would recommend, but particular measnies had not been elscribed, either by the Attorney-Gene ral or the Noble Lord. The Right Honoerable Gentleman merely passed his pencil over the canvas, sketched Iris outline, arod left the rest to be filled up at some future opportenity. 'Since such was the course taken by the flight Hon. Gentle man, he (Lord Castlereagh) thought be stiould best study the convenience of the House, by di• viding those subjects into the discussiOns which the Right Hon. (.;eetleman bad not thought fit to. enter. Lie proposed to-morrow to lay on the table'; of theHonse the intelligence alluded to in tlieSi . teeelt, front the Throne, which (as' lie had already trited)' n would be in a printed form. That no time (night ' be lost, on Friday, if agreeable to.the Hetise, he mould open the measures wiiiihGovernment were ' of opinion it would be 'expedient to adopt. • Be fore any one measure should be brought in, be thought it right that the HOuse should be put its possession of a general view of the state of the country, and of the difficulties and dangers against - which Government thought it't heir duty to pro vide. The House would then have the advantage, in debating each particular measure, of observing • its bearing on the general state of the ;-ountry. The mode he had suggested) would, be thought, bring the whole subject in the shortest nod must convenient manner before the House, and, as the • pet iod wbich'he proposed t o d o t hi s was so short, be was satisfied that, for that night, he might be excused front enteriug on .so extensive and important a field of discussion. • He now came to speak of that part 'of the Amendment which wen: to pledge -the Muse to an inquiry into the proceedings at Manchester. The events which bad occurred at that place gave no man more pain than he had felt on the occasion ;, but, at previous periods of our history Many calamities - equal in extent to that which it was proprised should now he the subjtict of a Parliamentary (pity, had occurred, hot he believed it was impos-u -sible for the Rig!ut Hon. Gentleman or any other Hon. Gentleman to point out one single ,iostance . in which that course had been pursued which he' recomtnended in that early stag e is w hi c h t h e events of Manchester were it present seen. It nothing was said in the Prince Regeot's Speech about Mancisver, this had been omitted on .ouninds which' would hereafter be staled. The mind of man could imagine nothiog more fatal to that calm and impartial administration of justice thou tnat unadvised 44crie; eine on the part