The Sun. — London, England, 1819-06-03 00:00:00

1 b.. e`" le futu►a egcuL 00 to tlio ts•liicti al Odle; (fue ac" service' ()net had !ir casJe, y former the Dasl tr. If lac nitnic fly ships it %von'.(l rivcii Ot Ch.trity? Out 1311! Cfc,it€(l real ha l beo est, My, H 1 ; 11 It lU ill ° 101) bad hat the possiWo !eed w:~~ ''IC e 10 lidlooeg ut put" es wbich the pr'' last, udible it of SO: ' botit S2l of • tubcrs • SC Ord 00,0001' 0(I ti g atIL: create` euti lAdys u e h, !fore ob. ludo] " 7 )servol 4 „11 poll ,l of (11`. ,„ pOi lt ! ) the P r ', o ()0' go) , ) the l'` r , Mich tl~` e v ' rl w orl,t" the Arr`'lil And ; ks $ ict,• d • c v one %%iv to liter Est 'ii —lbe I' .1 0 8, cote. • " nr l L , F or be 11°' iis ' to la Cllll'l'oo - n bil ll ,` • etl ,ro . t 1 1 ,:. !WS o f et 010 i ll CI 4 0 „, I" w ell it , it lie ii`r 911 11 :: t ' ( I e c tl e S ti n ,ru r)pOS‘i O'd S 1 .751 N for et. l'ot the charge o f th e ariloance O mice. :n freland.. 101,008 ,r Ur the ali , ,WailCeS to sa,o•ranimarial iitlicer., and w id("cs of ‘dficers to the Orilnan,•o De partment in Ireland... - FINANCE. The CHAtscarLop, Eicit Fox"? rt had a pro- Position to sulm si i tit t .e C•itmitirce relative to the Unfunded Debt 11: , the. ell'ered two a briet eXplanitiou of err' ain transactions between the Batiks of Ei t , 4 laiol and I. elshi, and conchided by snovine for a grant or 8 595 6001 to pity off Ex ' chequer Bilis or the year 1819, outstanding and Unprovid , tl for Mr. (7all.rtFet.t.. did not wish to create a discus sion on the pri...etit occa4ion ; hut as they were now 0•, the use ot a new 1,4811, he would entreat the Right Hon, Gentleman, and lie soild implore the Hoto.e looh at the acciiiiist rut the 'Pond, which he had caused «i be laid before the llott•e, and .0 tit4i I; what IN (1111t1 :lave been th e e tfeet °I applying It in the diminution of the test four luaus that were lalSttl. BV now produced, it 'i DroVell, that had his suggestion been acted /1 1 1 0 0 when the last four lotus were raised, the public sso, Id have been greatly benefi'ed. The tour lasi loans he he ore--curie of '27 . 1 )0 (1 1 0 00!• tiliSett 1813.4111 t. o 22,000,0001 , tai•ed i "Novestiher in lie •ame year we ot 24,000,0001,, Ifliseci in tl•ie be:jutting IRI-1 • . f mie to the enormous amowit 36,Q00,0001., rat-ed iii the year 1815. It with respect to these that course had been pursued which had felt it his duty to reco l n inen ,:_ r h e of tet —the pi act Ica! etfec , would Irate hen a saving to the Commissioners tot the recitic•iiitt of the Na *mod! I)...ht—that was, in het, a saving to the Country of no less than 6.000,0001 which w have produced au an nuity ot '268 0(101. a stunt larger than that raised by that nios, i jnr i ons and abominable of all taxes — the Lottery. That tax then might have br eu , pared, and au annuity purchased, that %void,' have sated the Country in perpetni'y the stint lie b4d mentioned, They were now about to oego- Ciire , loan ,It ,vas - riostoured, a loan to the ‘trioiitit of , bir.y millions This tumour might bt i i ,„„ r „ el. But siipposi , o; what he had beard tu t,, right, and 'hat the load was to he thirty roillions, let the House suss if the lti;:ht Hon Gen tlenian ought to L o for it ro the Contractors, tince the effect of his noirt:: Si) woul.l be to make them' continuo- B , ..lainst him and igainst t. a COllll. sit Y• IVO ,Id they Sail •1i1)11 this, 01. 'V(1111(1 t hey di ..et the Itight Hon. G. ntletnau to ap dy the .11 1 king Fivoi,or ally,' 4it it in (I . lllll,ititiO of the 10 41) to he raised tor .lie sersice of the present 'Year ? 11, w kl ie ,i ih e House to 'Like thi• into their 11 '" 41 serious consideration lie would now men• ti " o a rumour tl.at t,e had heard that day, out rhteh I.e must regard as 8 cal it:ny the Righ! 'li e Gentleman, ',bid', he cold(' not believe till I " , e had heard i . front his °xi) lips, namely—that rte ha.t cotonin , iicated to s , nise of the (;outractors the ani•uoit t•t the loan he meant to raise, and to tired) 41111 V. Was it necessary for him to state, 11 . 1 11 it th.. Chancellor sit the Escliequir had done this, h e load elven t • 'nose colitr.scTors a most enormo us . adsantaLe Was the ditty of the Right (4, 11 ,1,.,,,,„ to th e p. blic, and to the Stock- Indoet, it he welt pi epa« d to make such a state• Ricer H indivuals, to have made it publicly in v '"l' 3 plac e o n Tlitirsdiy last. He could not believe t iin noi,o,ir to ieh he halt aWoled had -my tottnilvion In .act ; lie held it to be a calumny, and i t „..„ n ow for :lie Right Hon Gentleman to blue it reinia , ion. 'file CHANCELLOR of ExcHEQuan, with I ;.. z ,. P Pect t , . th, fits , °pie fondled nil by the Hon. ' '''n' l l-111011,11 , oi.glit the lion G•inletnati had no t ight to , N i r c. t he House shoidd be o• his way of thinking 011111 hart' bcrrl better for tlle covistie had the route lie recommended ot-en tiiken, rested mi the 70SSIDD0t1 u, that it the F 8 , i i h k 11 :4 unit lo t' ot been applied in the way in he would hate appind into the diminution Of the L I 1115, that the it nusiod..r ot them would have been ii!oculied on the I. rats on which they 1 " 1 •e actirall obtained. \l'hat the act was he I c° "l't hot snv, but this lie could declare, that those conceined in the Loans asserted the con• tra ''Y• Ile therttnre called tipun the House not to vie..v the position rut the Honourable Gen tleman as established, till it was suppotted by further proof,' When money was to be taked, t , fs ect uttitinTetion 11411 been made to lily persoo that eonld del), ire the public of the toll belief - it 111 ' y ht tXlit et in negotiating the loan One "v'to , ge, thud it was a vet y impottant one, was Pt'ss , st , (l by the Treasury. It had always the Po" et of protecting the country, and of the pre /14:1°6"e the contiaerors trouts taking ally trdair I :u"mage, and this power was exetted, when it setut that t.olv imposition Was RH uDipted.--- ta ti"g this, he had, in a great measure, an liweted the question which had been put to him ;) ti th e sithjeri ot the rumour alluded «s by the LC 5 I° " 1 Gei.l .1) From the situation in %%hid) kith ° "( 1 ) he could not help having conversations ; t r "'any persons on the finances of the coin). y ; there had, however, been no secret or pri vate c ommunication mole to any of ilia contrac "43, that could give them au undue advantage over mhers or over the public. Alt% it ICARDO had heard a statement which set forth, w het het cots vet Iv or not he could riot say, all the particulars of the intended loan, the sum t ° be borrowed, and the days on which the seve ral' payments were to be made. These be under atood h au l been made known to others by the Chancellor of the Excliever, but not to hint, or 1 0 any one with whom he was connected. The usual course had been for the Chancellor of the txchequer to give notice to the parties likely to subscribe to the loan, that on such a day lie would el spect them, and th en w h en t h e y atten d e d hi m , t° unfold his plan to them. To communicate his Intentions to one party alone, wits to give that patty ts great and manifest advantage over all the 7; 1 . 15. Wheth er such a communicat i on had b een ade he ltd not know; but the rumour was so goe.neral, th at b e could not doubt the tact of some e to ntunicatioti front the Right HOD. Gentleman l 'ay . mg been made. bk:itl'hiehl,:itilltvceLLost of the EXCHEQUER had stated haveost'autleYdit)noillaitei;laorthietricilisveittsiouani. which . lie An.lr.l(3,ll:lth.r);e:,EhLti ha d thought, from the high opi nion Gentleman, entertained of the Right Ho liva';'.4.l"-tni,.usst.th Leman, that the rumour he had lave been a calumny • Now he found the ittlit ilt.inciustable GeUtleinan admitted . . 12,000 in terms, that he had made antre. %o litt'll►lC~tlt% l t on the subject of the loan. He bad stated to one or two individuals that he wished to raise the sum 30,000,0001. He (Mr. Grcnfell) was now sa tislicd he did not Meal) to apply any lout of the Sinking Fund in diminution of th e loan for die service of the present year. The Right Lion. Gentleman had told the House that the Treasury hail in its own hands the power of protectiug it self, it they saw any attempt to impose unfair 'ernes, He did not say that they had not this power, but what he said ,vas this—be wished them to use it. In consequence of their not doing this, and availing themselves of the Sinking Fund to diminish the Lunn , they drove the Contrac tors to combine against them. What single Con tractor could gi apple with a loan of 30,000,0001 ? Diminish it to 15.0001. and many persons would offer with whom it might be oegociuted. 'to those with whom the Right Hon. Gentleman had communicated on the present occasion, a most unfair advantage had been given. That that had beet, done, was tacitly admitted by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Would he now state to the ['oldie what lie had stated to the Contractors ? What reason, lie should %vial) to know, had the Right Hon. Gentleman for taking such a course ? lie was sorry, from what now transpired, to find that he had entertained a mote favourable opinion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer than be de served, for he was now satisfied that the rumours of the morning, which he had regarded as calum nies, were not without foundation. The CH INCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was per fectly ready to state to the House all that he had staled to any individual. lie had certainly been desirous of learning from those with whom he had conversed what were their opinions on the subject, and had asked whether they thought it would be better fur the Country that one large to n should Le raised, so that none should be ne cessary next year, or that is small loan should be raised for the svrviee of the present year only, or ‘yhether any and what part of the Sinking Fund should be applied in diminution of the loan, in the way recommended by the Hon, Gentleman. Mr. liatiNET thought, if the Right Hon. Gen tICIUM committed himself by conanunicating ins intent tons respecting the loan to a ny p r i vate individuals, the House ought to interfere to pre vent him front raising that loan. Time CHANCELLOR of tue ExcnEturEtt said, he had not so communicated his intentions to any One. , Lord MILTON Conceived, thAt that which the Chancellor of the Exchequer admitted in terms that he had done, by the questions he had pot, went to deptive the country of an advantage it ought to have enjoyed. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, one object he had in view was, to learn which plan those he had conversed with thought the be %t Mr. BARNARD remarked, the state of the Con sol3 alremly evinced preparations to have been nim i e for the Lean. Mr. GavNyyt.t. could not blame the Right Hon. Gentleman lt wishing to know the senthnents of those with :vhoni he had conversed, but he hoped that he would not suffer tl►ent to influence his conduct. If he did so, he would give up his duty to them. If he asked them whether a large or small Loan 'would he preferable, they would say that a large one ►could be better f►►r the country, ntean►ng thereby that it would he better for Oietn,elve.—The Resolution was agreed to. The CIiANCELLon of tie EXCHERUER moved a grant of 3,000,0001. to cover Exchequer Bills out standing for 1818. GRENFELL wished to know, as "some inti mit ion bad been given, that. the Bank, from pub lic spirit, would decline taking interest on these bills, it no I , ,terest were to be paid on them. Tie CHANCELLOR Of the EXCHEQUER, said no payment had yet been. made. The Honourable Gentleman was as competent as himself to judge whether it was likely that the Bank would de cline the interest referred to. Sir J. NEWPORT wished to know if these were the bills that wete retained by the Bank at a higher rate or interest than was paid on other Exche quer Bills. He thought this subject ought to have been brought before the House by the Chan cell-pr of the Exchetiner. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the present were not the bills alluded to. They had been referred to the consideration of the Secret Committee on the affairs of the Bank. Sir J. NewFowl' wao Sal itfled w ith their being so referred to the Committee, but he thought the tionse would know ;low to judge of the liberality of the Bank, from the circumstance of their, not being contvut to take the same interest that was receive:; by all the other members of the com- munity. The Resol►itions wris then agreed to.---The fol lowing sums were tl►en voted : For Irish Exchequer Bills For Treasury Bills issued for the service of Ire land Bcin; the hundredth part of 48,000,0001. in Ex chequer Bills authorired in the last Session to he charged on certain funds, with a view to their being paid ofl by instalments Towards defraying the expences of the British IN'luscum . 4,400,000 430,000 10,015 The House then resumed, and the Report was ordered to be received to-morrow. THE BUDGET. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose to give a notice, wishing to afford a more extended opportunity for discussing the measures he should shortly have to propose; than was usually offered when the Budget carne before the House, he would to-morrow, in order to raise such debate, move that the House should go into a Committee of the whole House, to which Committee, he would refer the first Report of the Committee on the Revenue and Expenditure of the Country. He would Oleo submit to the Committee the Resolutions he hail to bring forward, with an understanding that the debate should be taken on them on Alondtsy. GRENFELL inquired if the Chancellor of the Exchequer muant to bring his Budget statement on that day 2 The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER %vas un derstood to say he did. Mr. TzetiNEy begged to inquire, if the plan the /tight lieu. Gentlemau thettut to sub niit to the House tentlecl to equalize the Revenue and Expenditure ok_the Couutry ? The CHANCEL-LOH Of the EXCILEO.UER replied in the affittnative. • ASSESSED TAXES. The CHANCELLOR Of the EXCHEQUER gave no tice, that be would, to-morrow, move that the House should resolve itself into a Committee on the Ps.essed Tax Acts, for the purpose, it was understood, of receiving a poposition fur their commutation• COURT OF CHANCERY IN IRELAND. Mr. C. GRANT rose to move for leave to bring in a Bill for the better administration of justice in the Court of Chancery in Ireland. He showed that the fees had been enormously increased, and that fictitious attendances had been greatly moltiplied. Three summonses for parties to attend were sent as matters of course. The fourth, which was pe remptory, was the only one to which it was expect ed attention should be paid, yet fees for attend ances were charged on each summons for the three Masters in Chancery, the three Solicitors, and the six Clezits. So enormously were these con structive attendances multiplied, that in one in stance it was shown that 1297 attendances were charged, where not one real attendance could be proved. The costs were thus increased on the suitors, and the Masters of Chancery who taxed them, having an interest in them, were not likely to tax diem, as they would be taxed by indiffer ent persons. The ,Committee that had investigated this subject had recommended that t wo new Offi cers should be appointed to tax bills of costs with fixed salaries. The Chancellor and the Master of the Rolls objected to this. They wished the taxing of the costs to remain with the Masters in Chancery, but were of opinion this duty ought to be separated from their other duties, and paid by a fixed salary. The suggestion of the Chancellor and the Master of the Rolls he should recommend in preference to the plan of the Committe, and the Bill he wished to.bring in was drawn up accord ingly. He then described the provisions of the Bill for appointing Barristers to act instead of the Commissioners at present employed; as also those for making a compensation to Masters in Chan cery, and the Six Clerks, for the loss they would sustain under the proposed change of system. The expeoce of the new arrangement it was proposed to cover by a moderate duty on bills of costs in Chancery. He concluded by moving for leave to bring in the Bill. Mr. R. MARTIN seconded the motion, but wished the plan of the Committee adopted in pre ference to that of the Chancellor and the Master of the Rolls. The Earl of CARHAMPTON disapproved of the principle adopted with regard to compensation. Sir JOHN NEWPORT bestowed much praise on the Commissioners for Inquiry into the Courts of Justice. The abuses which had been exposed by their labours wet e of an enormous kind, twiny of them operati►►g to occasion a complete denial of justice. It was found that a simple contract debt of a low amount could not he recovered in the Irish Court. under an expence of 261. ; whereas, in the English Courts, the expence of suing for a debt of the same kind was only about 4or 51. To shopkeepers and traders of the lower description this abuse was virtually a denial of justice. In all the offices connected with the Irish Courts, abuses to a greater or less extent were discovered ; especially in those connected with the Cou'rt of Chancery. It had been found that a fee of above 4001. was demanded for setting down a cause to be heard-6521. for docketing, exemplifying, and enrolling a decree, and 1621. for registering it. Mr. L. FOSTER said, lie had the honour of hav ing been one of the Commissioners of I nquiry . The reform which had been made in consequence of the recommendation of the Commissioners were not made hastily, but on mature considera tion, and after consulting alt persons who had most knowledge and experience on the subject. The fee of 1521. for docketing, enrolling, and ex emplifying a decree, had been reduced to about 701. by assimilating the forms and charges to those in England. Most of the offices connected with the Court of Chancery were obtained by purchase. This practice had even been recog nized in several Acts of the Irish Parliament ; but it was now abolished. There was hardly ever any Bill introduced into the House mo►e likely to ad vance the cause of justice than the present. Mr. V. BLatE wished that time should be given to consider this 1311, and, with that view, recom mended that the Bill should now be printed, and allowed to stand over to the next Session. With respect to the enormous amount of the fees, he observed, that more than three-fourths of the I amount went to Government. Sir J. NEWPORT explained. Mr. V. FITZGERALD hoped that the Honse would not accede to the wish of the lion. Gen tleman (Mr. Blake) and that they would not agree to postpone the Bill. The truth was, that the Lord Chancellor and the Master of the Rolls in Ireland approved of this Bill. Mr. BLAKE explained. The motion WAS then agreed to, and leave given to bring in the Bill. Mr. C. GRANT then moved for leave to brine in a Bill for the better regulation of the Court of Exchequer Chamber in Ireland. After the dis 'cussion which had just taken place, he did not think it necessary to trouble the House with any further observations. After a few words from Sir J. NEWPOUT Rnd Mr. L. FosTatt, the motion was agreed to, and leave given to bring in the bill. WISH BANK RESTRICTION. Mr. C. WANT moved that the House resolve itself into a Cotntuittee•on the Act for Restrict ing the Cash Payments of the Bank of Ireland, for the purpose of moving similar Resolutions to those which had been adopted with respect to the Bank of England. The House then resolved itself into a Commit tee, and Mr. C. GRANT moved the Resolutions. After a few words from Sir H. Parnell and Sir J. Newport, the Resolutions were agreed to, and the Report ordered to be received to-morrow. MR. BARON 11PCLELLAND. Mr. MARTIN rose and said, he assured t lie House ihat he was aware of the awfulness of the duty he undertook : he was aware that it was impera- Live QU HOUbe tG Vißit its Liilliest displea- •S' Z.4l* • sure the conduct of Iliac man ‘,lto would be dar ing enough to bring forward an tinfotnioto and malicious charge. In consequence of what had passed on the occasion when he brought this charge forward before, he thought it incumbent on him to come before the House to prove that he had not been guilty of misrepresentation.--ft Wben he had detailed the nature of this charge, he thought he had given a sufficient quantity of proofs to afford the House a hostage of his sin.. cerity. He had reduced the charge to a set of articles of impeachment, as the most convenient form of accusation. What would be thought of the Naval OtFer who wo,ld bring forward any-- impeached charge against his Admiral, or an Of ficer against his Commander ? lle helievefl that the Court-Martial would, in justice to all parties, dismiss the teccuSer. Applying the case to himself, he would ask, whit would the House think it he could charge the Learned Judge with misconduct. which he repre sented to have passed under bis own eves, and the nature of which be could not liossibly mistake, if place . that misconduct did, not really take He had persons in tine gallery—(thiltr, order !) —he het lied pardon for the expression—welt he had. in the City of London—(Loud laugh ing,)—well then he bed in the City or Westmin ster—persons who would prove the unit) of his allegations. He would ask the Learned Attotney-General what he would think of the Judge who should, in an As•iie town, semi into the Court-house an armed body of soldiera and clear it of every individual ? Yes, the Learned J ridge did clear the Court—there w a s not a mall remaining with the exception of his Hon. Frienti opposite (Mr V. Blake), who by some stratagem, or another contrived to hide himself tinder one of the Benches.—(Bursts of LateL!liter.)—The Hon. Member then entered into a long derail of tit circumstances oh his chlage, and concluded by laying on the table articles of impeachment against Baron M'Cletlamt. He then moved, That ti.te charge be taken into consideration this day felt. night. Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that his Hon. Friend (Mr. Martin), if he might so call him, seemed to have brought on this motion under an idea that his own conduct was as much at issue as that of the Learned Judge whom he had accused. He (Lord C.) was of opinion, that the House, in re— jecting the former motion, had 00 imp, ached the Hon. Mover's veracity, bi t had decided on the ground that, even according to the stattment of the Hon. Mover, no reasonable ground appeared (or imput►ng corruption to the Learned Judge ; that the only point which that statement went to prove was, that the Learned Judge had decided improperly on points of law—a question on which the House could not interfere, except on some specific allegation of corruption. fie therefore hoped his Hon. Friend would be prevailed on to withdraw his motion. Alr. MARTIN said dial it wa: imposs ble, ors any ossasion, for the Nuble Lord to apply to hire in vain. As to corruption, he certainly could impute none to the'Le , arned Judge, except by the inference that so astute a Judge could not have decided so erroneously except trom personal hos-. tility towards him. The motion was withdrawn. Lord CASTLEREAGH sail, that the charges re— mained on the table, and it was necessary that they should be withdrawn, or the House would be compelled to t,►ke some steps respecting them. Mr. MARTIN said, he could not be the pe►son. to withdraw his own charges ; but he should not; object to their being withdrawn it any other Member chose to !mike the !notion. Mr. 13NowNt.ow said, that atter these charges had been made against the Learned Judge, i< was but fair that the defence should be entered into, and if such was the feeling of the House, he should wish to state what were really the circum stances of the case.—(Cries of '' Proceed ! Chair !") The SPEAKER said, that it was the privilege of any Member to deliver in at the table, without any previous motion, charges which he had to present against any public officer. It was them the custom tor him to name the day on which he wished them to be taken into consideration. This motion. the Hon. Member bad made, and bad withdrawn. The charges, however, still remained on the table to be disposed of, and even, if with drawn, would remain on the Journ,tls, unless ihe proceedings were ordered to be expunged. The House might take this course if they %%ere with drawn, or if they were now taken into consider ation, might reject them, and then order the pro ceedings to be expunged. Sir J. STEWART said lie should move, that the charges be rejected, and that the proceedings be expunged. The charges against the Learned Judge were, not that he had wrenched the law in favour of the Crown, but that he had thrown its shield before a prisoner who had been, proceeded against on the suit of the Crown. Un der such circumstances, it would be thought a hard case to hold over a charge of such descrip tion as that preferred by the Hon. nember sine die, and especially as four years had elapsed since the act complained of had taken place. In the course of the last tour years he would undertake to say, that the Learned Judge bad established a charac ter for legal knowledge and judicial impartiali , y in Ireland, which nothing could shake or tinder value. For these reasons he shoidd conclude with moving, that the charge be rejected. Mr. MARTIN, in a few words, expresso! his con currence in the Amendment, guarding himself, howeTer, against any misconception as to :he truth of his statements, which remained uncutdra dieted. Mr. CRAWFORD bore testimony to the character of the Learned Judge, whose knowledge and itn partial conduct, he said, were generally appre ciated. The question for the rejection of the charge we's then put, and carried without a divilion. INSOLVENT DEBTORS' BILL. Lord ALTHOI3I) moved die second reading of the Insolvent Debtnts' Bill. Mr. Alderman WAITHMAN eXpreSsCd big concurrence in the pi inciple of the Bill, which Was (4.llwied on the Resolutions of tLe C.,intnittee. The Bill, be said, was of great importance, not v: 1y to tlae tracliu4 iuterests ut the cusxtutuui,y, •