The Sun. — London, England, 1819-12-22 00:00:00

'Union bad (vermeil most ittjurionsly upon 131,d, aud their petitions since appeared to be very little trtetided to. The Protestants, at the time it wait brought forward,. were, as he understood it, led to believe that the Catholic Question would not be brought forward, and the Catholics were assured that their . emarteipation would take place. The Noble Earl concluded some further observa tions, by announcing his intention), soon after the recess, to move for a Committee to inquire into the State of Ireland. The Earl of Livr.a . Pont, in consequence of wh it fell from the last speaker, rose to say a few words. As to whether the Hill should 'extend to Ireland, the House had deliberately decided on it ; and tvOi respect to What the Noble Earl had SH;(1 with regard to the arrangement of the Ilnion with Ireland, he must think no such pi•otatise, or nisttrance either to the Protestant or the Catholic inhabitants of that country as he had referred to, Lad ever been given, Nothing of the kind could he found in or collected from that faithful state ment of the speech of his late Right Honourable Prientl, the report of which had been corrected by himself. No such representations had ever boen hell out to either parry ; whatever his Right Honourable Friend, or those who acred with him, had ever propOsed, resulted solely from their own views of that important question.--4- So far . frorn this country having acted unfairly or illiberally towards It eland, the very revere was the case, as was amply exemplified in her inking the tt hole of the Irish debt upon herself, and in such a tray as entailed a great accretion of but den upon this colutry. Site (Ireland) was nett ise entirely exempted from the Property TAX, the burden of which was exclusively bottle by this country. 'fl►e Earl of BLPSINGTON shnrtly explsined, after which the Bill was, without lu►ther discussion, p•ic , sed, and a message ordered to accriatut the C inninns tlotreof. Their - Lordships then, in a Committee, went through the Irish Election's NI without a mend ment.—Adjourned till to. morrow. HOUSE OP COMMONS. Mr. M.Arsettts gave notice, that he would to rnoitow move for papers, showing the total amount of the Revenue of Great Britain, from the sth January to the sth October, in the present year ; also, for on account of the sums paid on the new duties, and for a long series of fiaancial documents which he enumerated. Fie also gave notice, that immediately after the recess he would move for leave to bring in a 13111 to continue the Duties on exported Linen, which won'd expire in March, 1820. Mr. LYTTLETON gave notice. that he would to-morrow move for leave to bring in a Bill simi lar to that which lie had introijitced in the last Session of Patliament, to prevent Unskilful per sons from acting as Conveyancers. He did not propose to proceed with the Bill before the [Toli doys. He wished to be allowed to bring it in, that it might be printed, and left open for the con sideration of Members during the recess. Mr. LustiiNGTON presented certain Papers ordered by the House, showing the amount o f the Funded and Unfunded Debt, and the Capital created.—Ordered to lie on tl►e table. COURT OF EXCHEQUER. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose, pursuant to the no►ice that he had given on the preceding day, to more for leave to bring in a for the better securit►g of Monies end Effects p a id i n to the Court of Exchequer. The subject had been abeady more than once before the House, and being one of great importance, he thought it would be desirable to bring in the Bill now, that it might be read El first anti se cond time, printed, and then left open for con sideratiot► till alter the holidays, lie proposed by this Bill to make an arrangement in the Court of Exchequer similar to that which had given such great satisfaction in the Court of Chancery. The provisions of the Bill, when understood, would, he thought, meet with the general ap probation of the House. it went to appoint an Accountant-General and two Masters, who were to take account of all monies and effects paid in on account of suitors in the Court of Exchequer, The details of the Bill, however, would best ex plain the particular provisions which were thought thiirahle, and he should therefore confine himself to moving for leave to bring in a Bill for the bet ter securing monies ,and effects belonging to suitors in the Court of Exchequer, and for ap pointing an Accountant-General and two Masters to the said Court. CALCUAFT wished to know how the Offi cers to be appointed were intended to be paid,• lie hoped they were not to look for their emolu ments from dividing the brokerage of the Court, es was done in the Court of Chancery. -If the Officets in dues'ion were necessary, they ought to have proper salaries allowed them, a nd if the brokerage of the Court could be done for less than the usual charges, the suitors ought to have the benefit of the dimittishedexpence. The CnaNcELLoa of the EXCHEQUER said, as the Bill stood at present, the Masters and the Accountant were to be paid partly by salaries, and partly by certain fees which were to he al lowed them. The salaries were to be paid out of what was called the dead money of the Court, and would thus cause no expellee to be thrown on the public. Mr. CALCRAFT had nothing to object to the general plan of the measure. To him it appeared a very proper one, and he was only surprised that it had not been sooner resorted to. All be meant to say was this, that some fixed salary ought to be granted to she Accountant, and lie ought not to be compelled to look for his remuneration as the Accountant-General of the Court •of Chan cely did, by dividing profits with the Broker of the Court. It would, ill, his opinion. be much Letter to give them salaries at once, than to have recourse to such an objectionable mode of paying for their services. GRAHAM was extremely anxious that the Bill should be brought in, and that it should pass. Leave was given to bring in the Bill. The CHAticELLott of the ExcnEauga imme diately brought it in, and it was read a first and ordered to he read a second time to-morrow; FRIENDLY SOCIETIES AND SAVINGS BANKS. BoorLe 'WILBRAHAM seeing a Right lion. Fiiend of his its Lis glace, wished to ask him a question, which, however odri and absurd it seem, it was of considerable importance that he should answer. That an answer should be given was of great importance to the labouring, part of the imputation in Lancashire, where a report had been industrinuily circulated, that it was the in tention of Government to take the money belong ing fer the *Siiving Banks and the Friendly Socie. ties, in order to apply it towards paying off the National Debt.—(A laugh !)—Absurd as this story was, it had been malignantly sent abroad, and it had been unfortunately caught up by many per sons who were ignorant of the fact, that Govern ment had not the power if it had the inclination, to apply the funds alluded to in any such manner. The circulation of this calumny bad caused the breaking tip of many Friendly Societies—liar) in duced others to draw their money out of the Sav ings Banks, and had, in short, produced conse quences that were seriously injurious, to that part of the country of which he had more particularly spoken. For himself it was unnetessary that Ire should state that he vas quite aware that Go vernment could have no intention of attempting any thing of the kind.. He knew whence the story had proceeded—he kaew that it had been • invented and circulated by intere.oed individuals •to forward their own mischiesous views. The tale, however, had seemed to receive a colouring from the provision contained in an Act of the last year regulating SaVings Batiks, which went to authorize certain payments to be made to the Counnisaioners for Redeeming the National .Debt. He knew that this ought to be viewed with suspicion, arid he had denied that Government had any intension of toncl.ing the funds in ques tion, but his denial pa - ssed for nothing, and there fore he hoped the Chancellor of the Exchequer teonld have no objection to answer the question Which he thought it right to ask, namely, whe ther it seas the intention of Government to appro..: prime the monies deposited in Savings Banks, and those belonging to Friendly Societies, to pay off th'e National Debt ? • The CuraNceLeott of the EXcneciorta said, after all the experience that they had had of the ex tent to which absurdity and misrepresentation cold(' he carried, he had certainly not been pre pared to expect that it would be necessary for Trim to answer a question like that which had just been put to him by his Hon. Friend. He had been asked if it was the intention of Government to appropriate the monies deposited in Savings Banks, and those belonging to Friendly Societies, to pay off the National Debt ? He had Only to reply, that the report was without the .smallest foundation, either in fact or in probability. The Hon. Gentleman knew well, that all the money paid into the Savings Banks was kept distinct from all other monies, and the Treasury had not the power, if they had the will, to appropriate one farthing of it to any purpose but that for which it was intended, and understood by the subscri bers, that it should be applied for their benefit. Mr. BR•UGHANI remarked, the Right Hon. Gentleman might - have the consolation of know ing, that his Majesty's Government, it calumniat ed, were not calumniated alone. The Committee on Education had had its motives misrepresented in the same way ; and among other things, it was said of them, that they wished to seize on the funds of the several establishments, into the abases of which they were directed ro inquire; and it was further stated to be their object to turn the two Universities into Charity Schools. He hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman would not cal culate on putting down the wilful mis-statement which had been made, by what lie had said, as the calumny to which be had alluded, though re futed five hundred times, had still been sent abroad again as industriously as when it was first I invented. • The CUANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER (11(1 hope that what he had said would hive the effect tl►i+t he wished, as his statement, when it went forth, would be coopled with tl►e well known fact, that in no case had any society experienced the least difficulty in withdrawing the money which belong• ed to it, whenever its members had thought pro per to do so. Mr. CALCRAFT thought, it might be consoling to those who had been alarmed by the Report, which was the subject of the question just put to the Right Honourable Gentleman, to know there was no ground for their apprehension, as in the present year there tvonld be nothing paid to dimi nish the National Debt, either trots► that or from any other quarter. The proposed Sinking Fund of Five Millions was a Sinking Fond in the clouds.—(A laugh, and cries of " Order, order.") —He must contend that if a conversation like the present was allowed to go on, when no question was before the house, lie had as good a right to express his sentiments as another. The Gentle men in Lincashire, who hind been afraid the Na tional Debt was about to be paid off with their money, might be informed that, up to the com mencement of the present year, we were said to have a Sinking Fond of Fifteen Milli Ons. That then it was determined to have a .clear Sinking Fund of only Five Millions. That, he feared, would now he found to fall very short, and no thing wool(' be applied this year to the reduction of the debt. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER,. pro tracted as this conversation had been, was desir ous of offering one woid more.. He - was sure that it would be consoling for the Hon• Gentleman to know that, in this instance, he had fallen into a mistake, and that, so far as he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) was able to form a judgment troth the present state of the revenue, he could not perceive that any material deviation from the plan laid down in the last Session of Parliament would be necessary.—(Hear, hear, hear!) CALCIZAFT understood that the Chancellor cf the Exchequer meant to say, that the state of the Revenue was such, that there would he a sum applicable to the reduction of the National Debt, equal, or nearly equal, to that which it was pro posed should be the furore amon•rt of the Sinking Fund. If this were the ease, he was very glad of it. Sir W. DE CRESPIGNY, adverting to a plan sng gested on a former night by an lion. Member, for reducing the National Debt by a contribution from the property of the country, stated this scheme to have had a most injurious effect, as it had induced the partueis in some of the commer cial t“( 9 Res shcir riinficy troth the roncerni in w hich they were engaged, to endea vour to save 01,in:elves from the 6peratiou of such a measure. ORANGE rnocEssioNs. Mr. CANNING rose to offer an explanation in which the character of an individual was touch interested. He by no means wished to prevEnt the expression of the Hon. Baronet's sentiments, and hoped he would tesome his statement. He rose for the purpose of reminding an lion. Gen tleman opposite of a statement which he had made with respect to a Clergyman, whom he had spoken of as having on one occasion preached a sermon before the pervni who had formed an Orange Procession at Liverpool. He (Mr. Can ning) was not at that time apptised of the circum stances of the case. He did not know the name of the Clergyman to whom the Hon. Gentleman allotted, and no,e that he knew his name, lie did not know the individual. He.had received a let ter front Liverpool denying many of the facts aimed by the Honourable - Gentleman, on infor mation which he bad obtained, and to which he tray sore that he gave credit. In the letter ad drefy,ed to him (Mr Canning) he was assured by the writer that he had only preached a Sermon before the pat Cle9 alluded to as a matter of ordinary civi lity, as he would have done for any ordinary be nt fo society that might !rave asked such a favour . The text from which he had preached ran thus : " By these things all men shall know ye, that ye (110 good, and love one anothir ;" and the Cler gyman went on to assure him that every word of his Sermon was in perfect coutormity with that text. He hail inquired into the character of the Writer, which he found to he most respectable:— He was a young Minister, but he twilit' that lie was very much esteemed by all who knew him ; and having stated this he was sure the Hon. Gen tleman would thank him for supplying this expla nation. Mr• BEN NET stated many things to have been put into his mouth which lie had never uttered.-- e had been' made to say that the procession, in which were persons representing the Pope and a Cardinal, with the insignia of the Church of Rome, had stripped off their robes and committed them to flames before going to hear a sermon preached. He had not said this, but lie had described the procession. He did not say that the garments they had worn were committed to the names, but lie had understood them to have been thrown. over the backs of the pews where they went to attend divine service. It gave him great pain to say ‘chat lie did, but what be-thought it his duty to say of a sermon preached under such circum 'stances, that to him it appeared '' a sedition to roan and a blasphemy to Qod." The Clergyman he bad not known either before or since. lie had los ified this opinion, by showing that the sermon was not preached before a friendly so ciety, as certain societies were termed, but a so ciet y the object of which was to perpetuate reli gions differences. lie imputed to him no impro per language in the - sei . mon ; but a sermon preached at all under such circumstances, he thought im proper. It was only in this year that such a procession had been set on foot. On a trial which took place in consequence of their heing pelted, to certain questions put to them to obtain an ex planation of part of their proceedings, they would only answer—'' Belong to our lodge and then you will know." They had stated themielves to he hound by an oath of seciery, and contended that Freemasons might as well be called upon to di vulge the secrets of their fraternity; as they to art- t saver touching the matters on which they wet tin terrogated. These things to him appeared very extraordinary and improper. The person who preached before them might think that he was doing tight, but he thought be was doing wrong, Though he felt it to be his duty to animadvert on what had passed as he did, yet wishing the blow to tall as lightly as possible, ire abstained troll) mentioning the individual by name. Mr. CANNING, after what had been stated by the 'lon. Gentleman, thought irbot justice to the individual whose character had been injUred, to read a part of his letter. The letter stated, that the tale of one person being dressed as the Pope, and another as a Cardinal of the Church of !tonic, and of the mock insignia carried with them, had since been disproved in a Court of Justice, and he could disprove the assertion, that persons so dis guised had stripped off their garments, and com mitted them to the flames. Bad they acted thus, lie wondered any body could suppose that a Clergy man of the Cianrch of England would be fount: to preach before them. Ile (\lr. Canning) knew the speech of the Hon. Member had been in some instances incorrectly repoAed, and the ex planation given on this head, and what he had stated, wool:1, lie hoped, do away any improper impression that had been created to the prejudice of an BANE, BALANCES. 111 r. Gll ENVELL utoved for vat ions papers, shew. ing the balances of public cash from the different public offices in the hands of the Binlyot Eng rand, on the Ist and 15th days respectively of each month, from the 'lst of January to the 13th of December, 1819, inclusive ; also a return of all Exchequer Bills deposited in the Bank during the same period. BAKING TRADE Mr. C. CALVERT moved for leave to bring in a Bill to regulate the baking trade in the vicinity of the metropolis. The Bill which he had brought in before had done much 'good, but not all that had been iutended. As it expiied on the 2311 Ja• nuary, his object was to renew it till the 24th Jtine, before which time an lion. Friend, better qualified titan himself, had promised to ft ame an other measure.—The motion was agreed to, and leave given. CRIMINAL LAWS. Sir J. MACKINTOSH gave notice, that on the 15th Febtnnty he shookl move for tl►e re-appoint ment of the Committee on the Criminal Law.— (Hear, hear !) PARLIANIENTARY DISQL'ALIFICATIONS. Mr. BENNET gave notice, that, alter the recess, he should more for leave to bring in a Bill to pre vent persons disqualified by bolding certain places from sitting in Parliament. MANCHESTER MAGISTRATES. Mr. CALCRAFT desired itgaiii to know from the Noble Lord, whether be mai his Colleagues bud a rty iibjectioti io produce the ati-so.;er of Loy ` Sidutouth to the Manchester Magistrates, and also lb the Lord Advocate ? r.nrii CI,TLERRAGti thought it his duty to 0 1 7, jcct to the production, as no grwun' fa , it ba a r been laid. wks then about 10 I b i pit 6 rrtotiiltesdnt she prothittotl' of the p a p e rs, but afterwards postponed it till early after the recess. DISTRESS IN SCOTLAND. Lord A. HamtvroN, before bringing forwat 4 the motion of which lie had given notice, 115(1 .4 Petition to present, to which he begged to call. _the attention of the House. He begged to cal their attention to the misery, wretchednesi, an, degradation (in circumstances he meant) of tile' Petitioners, which he thought of a nature to d6, : ' stand the most serious attention of the Hause r : The Petition was from a Presbytery or Asiernbit„ of the Alinisters of foot teen parishes, who vver bound by law and by the practice of their Church to Morin themselves of the state of their pa' rishioners, and trona their report it appeared, tha t . in Iliat part of . Scotland it was imposkible for the earnings of one man to support a family. It ids°, stated, that the poor could not attend Divine Set", vice as formerly from the want of decent clothing, to appear in, while the educ a tiO n of t h e i r c hildren was oeglected front the saute cause. Now, though he (Lord A. Hamilton) was aware that nothing could be more against the principles of political ecouoiny than to make an advance from tl:e general, stock to relieve the distress.of a particular district , yet still the distre , s of tliese Petitioners ought, if possible, to he redrtssed. The Petitioners farther stated, that no disaffection had appeared among their pat ishioners till designing persons attemptea to take advantage of their troubles to intiarne their minds. The Petitioners prayed the flouse! by finding employment for the sufferers, or b 0 other menus, to afford relief. The Noble Lord went on to remark, that that House wou!d per' form but halt its duty, if it en-acted only coercive measures to repress disaffection, while it o ver-. looked the causes trout which that disaffection. spiting. lit conclusion, he begged to say, Ihyt there were waste lands contiguous to the place where Hose Petitionets resided, which might maintaiu them, and which he had no doubt the owners would willingly give tt for that purpose; it it could be ns ide effectual, by making then! tithe-free for a number of years, or by any other arrangemenr.—The Petition was then brought op-, Mr. KeNNEDY supported the prayer of the PC'` lition. Sir W. Ds CRESPIGNY hoped that the plan of Air. Owen would be acted upon to relieve the ve" titioners, or that some other equally efficacious remedy would be devised. Lord CASTLESREAGH assured the Noble Lord, ha sincerely sympathisetlin that distress he had with, the warmth of feeling arising- from attachment to his country described. The sentiments of 607 vernment upon the subject of the distressed tricts, had already been submitted to' the House and the Country ; in fact, these parties, in coin-- mon with other manufacturing districts, were now suffering from the wl.int of that activity i" trade which in happier times had constituted their wealth and conifort The Scottish Nation; hots' ' ever, had advantages. They were not subject to the burden of the Poor Laws, but had the power to assess theniselves as far as they pleased to Nardi the support of their pour. in many parts of England the property of the land-holder was sensed to the full value in cases of etnergencl; which w.►s the real reasun often why no complaint' of the people's distress in these districts reached the House. Government bad always suggestr 4 that, although it would by no Means asscot royale away the public money to' meet such cases, yet i‘ would be prompt to atfot-d relief iii the shape of 14 , loan, for 3,4, or a years, as might suit their coot' nience, or an assignmeot of any reasonable setting' Such had been the practice pursued in the el-istresoe of ISI7, and he was happy to observe, there , A" 4 even yet half a million of this money in the hand'. of the Commissioners then appointed. Nothit4 could prevent the applic , Jtion of this sittplus t", the distresses of these individuals, should the or' cessary conditions be complied with. In or'll'f f to obviate any legal objections which mi4lif made on this head, it was the intention of 0 4 Right lion. Friend to make a motion on the 50, ject when the House was upon the siihject of civil emitingencieS. fie thought much was its titt, power of the Scotch land proprietors themserre` they might, and ought to meet the evil ; and hi making a distribution of the contribution on large scale, and over an extensive disti;cf, thei would prevent the distress falling as an itictio . !trance or tax on the property to ifs total annibi', Air W. Donut.As hnped some metlnod wad(' b e found for triirving the existing distress, but tel that many objections existed to the introdueli° ll of the Poor Laws into Scotland. Mr. J. P. GRANT said, the case of the suffere rs had not been overstaff(' by his Noble Friebila o him it appeared, that such calanii!y had be et , proved to extst, that it was the duty err the 1 3 n'/ pine at large to relieve that distress, which 1 14 been thrown on M particular district by the gen e t! ' ral course of its policy. Ile believed the interest in that 'district could not by possibility meet the distress. The introduction of our sY sa tent of Poor- Laws into S co tl an d, h e cowende 4l ' ought to he resisted us most impolitic. Lord CA'TLEREAGII had 1101 &Ult.() the existing distress. lie had only cootendt;tl that it vvil! little too haul on Ung land to expect that sh e : being distressed by the heavy pressute of the 1 1 ° 0 ; Laws, shooh; . take upon herself the extra bortl e .d i " of the Poor of Scotland, t o save S cot l a nd fro" - being subjected to the Poor Liws. Mr. ELLlCRthought it would he difficult to e re security for the re-I ) of a sum advanced to relieve the existing distress, as he did not belie s the calamity to be temporary, b u t f eat ed, that .f some inquiry did not take place, the result hich was to afford great financial relief, the di (' ficulties would increase. - - - - Mr. V. !ILA:ill eXpI'eSSCCI nprobat ion „ r t he plan Of advancing nlonev upon certain secoritie% but considered (but the Bill under which the C"'" missiom r acted might be amended. Mr. Wasetteouce considered the Vise O f t 1:: Petitioners 10 be entitled to the most seriolo " .Cotti c 4ate uefor Oer chile 'bay, the f mid I\lo6l / Pire 411 iii c 'lain( TI 4firn tied, lor All the their the !lion( how Ivhi c 'll Lc fro rn Rtid I Lc lion The a Av h hl bride any i t o rt Fish yehr had Ford ,4111 krt,” 'toy, fleet Creel tie s I n ft) tiirec Aber h an k 41'lent Poini °nSI ?rest 4tct , al!)~~ td by ti you 1 3 e 11 c Lc 110 tic