The Sun. — London, England, 1819-06-24 00:00:00

P A R I, 1 A. NI E N T. O LORDS, JUNE 23. The House met, by special adjournment, at an rally hour in the forenoon, when their Lordships resumed the bearing of evidence respecting the Barnstaple Election Bill, and several witnesse'4 were examined. The further examination, which is still expected to be of some length, was, at four o'clock, adjourned till Friday. Dunn's Divorce• Bill vas read the second time. _ . On the question for the second reading of the Northampton Small Debts Bill, a conversation of some length took place, in the course of which Earl SPENcr expressed his disapprobation of all local Bills of this kind, and re-urged his ob servations upon the subject generally. Ile re peated his earnest wish that some meaaure would be adopted applicable to the kingdom generally, for the more speedy and effectual recovery of small debts. Acts upon this principle were al ready in force in Scotland and Ireland ; and be expressed his satisfaction that a Noble and Learn ed Lord agreed with him on a former night in this opinion. Lord REDESDALE decidedly preferred the enact ment of a general regulation .to partial measures of this kind. About eight or ten years since, he proposed a Bill for the establishment of a Gene ral Court for that purpose. Looking at the sub ject prospectively, be thought that if there were County, or rather District Courts, to be esta blished, that juries of a lesser number than twelve may suffice. It was impossible that any thing could be done in the subject this Session, hut in the next, were a Committee of Inquiry appointed, and a general Bill framed, much good may be done. The Noble Lord seemed to indicate his intention of comic g forward himself for the pur pose. As to the present Bill, he saw no pariicu lar objection, save its .possible tendency to pre clude a general Measure, • Earl SPENCER expressed his satisfaction at tvhat had fallen from the Noble and Learned Lord. The LORD CHANCELLOR briefly expressed him self to the same effect. 'Of the present Bill he must say it was far less objectionable than several which were latterly sent op to that House., Earl SPENCER, in consequence chiefly of whit bad fallen from the Noble and Learned Lords, moved, as an .amendmen , , that, instead of now, ,the Bill in luestion should he read the second time on that day three months, which was order ed accordingly. The Earl of Laurnanaen adverted to the Scots' Transportation Bill, then before the 1 7 ,nise, which he briefly characterized, as at best of so very questionable a nature that he trusted due no tice would be given of any intention to propose its second readin , . FOR.F.IGN ENLISTMENT BILL. . . The E LkUDERDALE presented a petition from rite Common Council of the City of London. praying their Lordships that this Bill may not pass into a law, as a measure hostile in its nature and effect to the best interests of the country, and Idiely to increase much its present difisculties an'd distress. _ _ The Earl of LtizutiPoot, rose, not to object to th e i r I,,ockhips' receiving the Petition, but to stut e , that if the prints were then on the table, his intention to move , the second. reading, of the Bill On Friday. fle added his opinion that it would tend to tide convenience of many Noble Lords, if the di,enviion , ins teed of the second reading, should take place on the qne,tion for. going into the Committer, which he intended to move for on Mond y. The Marquess of LANSDOWNE seemed to ex press a is readiness to concur in the arrangement proposed by the Noble Minister. The Duke of lkovonD presented a Petition from lloniton, in the County of Devon, against the above Bill ; and also a Petition from Bead-, ing, in Berkshire, praying a Revision of the Cri minal Code. INSOLVENT DEBTORS' BILL. Lord AUCKLAND gave notice of his intention to move the second re4ding of the Insolvent Debtors' Bill on Tuesday next.—The Lords to be summoned. FRAME-WORK KNITTERS' BILL. On the que6iioo for going into a Committee on this Bill, The Marquess of LANSDOWNR rose, and, in a speech of some length, opposed the measure.— He inure especially censured the principle of the as in his mind leading to resul , s, not only of an injnriotts, hut a destructive nature, to the trrmufscturi ,, g interests of the country, and those of the numerous classes of persons who depended on them for support. He quoted the parts of the evidence given before the Committee of the other House of Parliament in justification of what he atteanced. The acting upon such principles would tend to deteriorate the condition of the poorer manufacturing cla s ses more, perhaps, that any measure that chilli! he (leviseil.' He regretted the absence of a Noble-Viscount from the discussion, . whose department it was considered as chiefly atn to take steps to preclude or counteract eventual .mischiets which may arise from the adoption of measures so highly detri mental to the condition of the workinte popula tion, as he certainly considered the MI in ques tion to be, and upon which he should undoubted ly take the sense of their Lordships. The. Earl of WssTmotreAelo htiefly deferuipl the measure, which be most contend was to!al _ mistaken in its nature :Ind tendency by the No ' ble Marqnis. So far from the trade in question • beinc injured by the measure, it must, if sortie reps of the kind were not taken to put down the spurious article, be tn!ally ruined, and by that means produce tar greater Mischiefs than those the Marquess so fce:inaly deplored. These Noble l'e,rs respectively spoke in xpla- The Earl of H - j.Rr,ow3y rnade a few observa tions, the tendency of which, as well as eonld be collected, were p t .tainit the measure. • The Honse then divid?,l on the queition Contents 15—Proxies lO 45 Nun Content... , 3—Proxio l4 Cl 111:ijority against the 13111.. PA HEN'S BILL. Consequent to the goestioo for t h e third rem]. jog of this Bill, a conversAtiov rather of a degol tory nature, of some length, anti ehieiy growing; out of some amendments wereliropoted, took place. Previous to the discussion of thee proposed . amendments, the Bill, as tie regular course tptir;-41, WAS read the thii'd time. ► Lotd tioLLAND observed, that had his :health pet nut red his attendance on the recent discussions conuected %%id) the snbjk•ct, he shotild h-ve telt it hi. duty to resist the fixing of any latter period for the resumption of r•asl► payments titan that be fore fixed for the putpi►se, namely, the sth `of• July. The Bill as it now stood should, lie thought, ht%accompanieti by other provisions, itt order to rennet it effec►ual. The first Amendment proposed by the Noble Lord WAS, that instead of that part of the !Bed .tire beginning to opera.e, as now fixed-, in Feb tom y 1820, it should commence its opera ion on the Ist of I`:oretuber next, as he should prefer a period at which it was not likely Parliament should be sitting. • Alter a short discussion, this amendment, as well as another, apparently of a subordinate -na ture, was negatived ; as was also the introduction of a claithe, proposed by the Earl of . LAUDERDALE,. respecting the fractional payments in silver. Some further discussion took place, in conse 90euce of an amendment proposed by the Earl of Alittow4Y, respecting the interval of time allow ed by the Bill as it then stood, for the option of the lank to pay either in coin or bullion, and which, as we understood the Noble Lord, altered the pet iod prescribePby the Bill, to May 1822. Lott! REDESDALE made a variety of observations upon the point, and seemed to disapprove of the proposed alteration. The Earl of LIVERPOOL ably supported the Amendment, which w3s not opposed by any Noble Lord on the left side of the House, but agreed to without farther discussion. • Bill teas then passed, and a message-order ed to acquaint the Commons therewith. FUTURE LOANS. The Earl of LIVERPOOL observed, that as per haps what he said on a former evening on this important subject may not have been clearly un derstood, he now %visited to state, that it ivas great object with his Majesty's Government, and they had every reason to think it probable, th,it the Loan lately negoeiated would be the last they would have occasion to contract for, (hiring the contionance of peace ; with the exception, how ever, of the five millions which must be raised in the next year towards the agreed proportion to be lignidateii of the debt due to the Bank. Lord HOLLAND inquired, if it %vere proposed atm the Acts rendering the notes of the Bank a legal tender, should be repealed ? To which the Noble Minister replied in the negative. The Lottery Bill went through a Committee and was reported ; and the other Bills upon the tilde being respectively forwarded, the House ad jourue,l till to-morrow. HOUSE OF COMMONS. A Petition was presented from . Andover, pray ug a protecting duty against the Importation of Foreign Corn.—Read, and ordered to lie on the table. Mr. Serjeant ONsLow obtained leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Law relative to the ac cepting of Bills of Exchange. Mr. Serjeant ONsLow moved for leave to bring in a Bill to regulate the admission of Attornies in the Courts Of Law. The intention of the Bill was to abridge the term preparatory to admis sion to three years. He did not at present know whether it would be advisable to extend the pro visions of the Bill to Ireland.—Leave given. Mr. CoKe (of Norfolk) presented a petition front certain Persons in the County of Norfolk, complaining of the pressure of taxation, and es pecially of the Malt Tax, and proposed the sub stitution of a graduated Income Tax, which should not extend to any persons whose incomes were under 3001. a year. The SPEAKER said, that if the petition was against any of the late taxes it could not he received. —The petition was, therefore, with drawn. EXETER GRAMMAR. SCHOOL. Mr. WILBERFORCE , . presented a petition from Dr. Lempriere, late Master of the Exeter Gram mar School, complaining that he had been cause- I essly and 'unhandsomely dismissed by the Trus tees of that School. The petitioner sated, that he Wa3 aware he could not expect any personal redress from the House of Commons, but hoped, tktat from his case the House might see the ne cessity of adopting measures to prevent the offices of Trustees and Visitors of Schools being united in the saute person.—The petition was brought up and read. Mr. COURTENA'i defended the conduct of the Trustees, and moved that the petition be re jected. Mr. GRENFRI,L expressed his snrprize that the tinie of the House should have been wasted by this discussion. He had himself been in the neighbourhood of Exeter, anti heard only one opinion on this subject—oamely, that Dr. Lein pliere had been properly removed, as he was ruitt ing the school. Mr. littouonam spoke in favour of the petition. Lord GRAVgi defended the conduct of the Trus tees, ancrsaid they had acted in the best way to support the interests of tie school. WILBEaI'ORCH said, he was sore the House would not think its time wasted in attending to the complaint of a man of high literary character, who represented hintseif to have been so ill-used. lie understood, that under the auspices of Dr. Lempriere, the school at one time had increased three fold.—He was informed that, by the Bill of his Noble Friend (Lord Castlereagh) now be fore the House, a remedy was provided for stieh a case as this, and to .prevent the abuses likely to happen when the offices of visitor and trustee woe united in the same person. - lie had been requested to undertake this petition by a person of the highest character in the kingdom. 'the_ Statement of the petitioner made it appear that the diminution in the number of scholars hod been occasioned, not by his misconduct, hut by that of ;he Trnstecs. It Was of itmucose consequence ant the .seminaries (if education "in this country ~. 1(ould he properly regulated. Ilea Was actt: showi►tg that the state of the law was not such as it ought to be, and therefore worthy the attention of the House.. Lord CASTLEREAGU said, if the petition had prayed for an immediate remedy, then no diffi• culty could have arisen. - Jut the truth was, that the twtition contained an ex-parte charge against the Trustees, on which the House would have no opportunity of coining t(l'a decision or investiga tion. Therefore, he did think it unfair to allow the petition to lie on the Table. The Bill before -the - House would provide against the abuses ails, lug from the combination of the offices of visitors and trustees in the same person. Mr. WiLtirutFouca explained.--The petition was then rejected without a division. SOtTTEI ANIERICAN WAR. Lord NUGENT said, lie wished to ask 11_ tion relative to a subject mentioned in the iiebate on the Foreign Enlistment Bill the other night. In the course of that debate he had stated that the Andromache frigate was off the Lima coast with a freight of gold for Spain. This he had stated on the authority of a letter front that ship; But during his speech, the Hon. Secretary of the Admiralty had told him across the table that he was misinformed, lie now wished to give the Hon. Gentleman an opportunity of stat ing what were the facts. Mr. CRoKER said, his expression during the Noble Lord's speech was meant rather as a cheer, and as extiressing dissent. The expression used by the Noble Lord, so tar as he recollec , ed, was, " Had we not now our ships of war -IF the coast of Lima to carry freights of gold to Spain ?" (No ! hom Lord Nugent.)--The truth was, that the ship in question Was now stationed off the coast of Lima, on the special application of many merchants, to protect our trade, with strict in structions not to interfere in any shape in the war now cart vin,: on in that quarter. Lord NUGCNT wished to know whether . the Faun Gen:lentail or the Admiralty wet e not in possession of information that the Andtotnache frigate had now on board gold which she was to carry to Spain ? (Thor as replied, that the only information which he had on the sidtieet was that derived tram a paragraph iar the newspapers, which stated, that Ihe rrir tee iti question had on hoard gold destined for Spain. MALT TAX. Mr. \VEsTERN tvlshed to know whether the Right lion. Chancellor of the Exchequer had been int!uced to adopt any resolution favour of the Monsters, in consequence of the interview ‘v,icli It, hill held with tlo The CnANCELLoR of the ExCHECiIIeR replica, that the only question discu s sed at that interview, was whether the Malt st evs t.vho had a considerable stock On hand, should on that account be released front a considerable part of like new duty. BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE. Mr. WyN;:o:7latie s(nne observations on the in convenience produced by the number of Orders of ihe Day which cvc:a; fixed for this day, aid the impossibility that so touch business could be dis patched at one sitting of the House, with due at tention. He hoped that half of the Orders which stood for this day would be postponed to to-mor row or some other day, CHARITABLE FOUNDATIONS. Lord CASTLEREAGIi moved the third reading of 1 the Charitable Foundations' Bill. ' . Mr. Beouonest rose and spoke at some length on the various provisions of the Bill, which he said were in a great degree similar to those which be himself had introduced in the Bill of last Ses sion, though they had been struck out in the other House• The principal difference between t h e Bill of last Session wtdch had passed this House and the present, was, that this Bill pro vided two Boards of Commissioners, one of which had the power of calling for papers and persons. He then entered into some details of the adean tages which had already been derived from the l a b ours o f the Commissioners. In one branch of Charities alone a saving of 40001. per ann. had been effected, and this, if nothing else should be done, was sufficient to make up for the ex pellees of the Commission, Even if the Com misioners should not proceed more rapidly than hitherto, their labours would produce much good. As to that part of the subject which related to special visitors, and visited charities, it seemed to him the most important point. It was contends e d t h a t visited charities should be excluded frotn the pro visions of this measure, ou the ground that it was against the will .•f the founder—on the principle that cups est dare, ejus cst disponere. But Parliament had acted on the principle of exclud ing such charities in former cases. If this prin ciple were to be admitted, why were any founda tions to be brought within the inquiry i—The argument was, that in observance of the will of the donor, these charities should not be,included for which he, the donor, bad provided a special vi sitor ; but that it he appointed his heir-at-law a visitor, the inquiry should he made. If the ar gument were cot feet as to the latter, there was not hitig to distinguish the former. It could only arise from confidence in the special visitor that he should have such duties reposed its hiin by the donor. But it he went still further in his confi dence, and made the visitor also a trustee, then, on the-argurnet►t that cujus est dare ejus est dis ponere, the exception must end, and the provisions of the Bill must apply. When a smaller degree of confidence was imposed by the donor, the per son in whom Ise teposed it was to be implicitly trusted ; but if he reposed a greater degree of confidence in a person, and made him both vi sitor and trustee, then the confidence must cease, and the inquiry must begin. Was this consistent with reason, justice, or common sense ? He hoped he would induce the House to strike out altogether the clause which made an exception in favour of special visitors not being also trustees: It he coup' tot succeed in that, there were some other alterations which he .trusted he should more easily persuade them to adopt. The great excep tion of the Universities, and also Schools of which they were trustees —of the Schools of Win chester, Harrow, and the others specially named, all the Colleg;ate Churches would still remain.— As to the number of visited Charities in Eng land, the Commissioners, out of tlie 260,which they had exatnined, had found six to be visited ; but there were others which they had not 20 exa mined as to be able to state ; and he 'lto tight t the true proportion toss about five per cen t. this rate the number of visited Schools througol'a out the kingdom must be above 2,000 c 30(1 the loNest computation at least 1,200 Sc hool' tits` would, as the Bill now stood, be exempted, tr°ll/ its operatiou. Mr. R. PEEL differed from the Hon. Member who had sat down, both in the arguments whi PLe cii he had advanced, and in tie assertions which t had made. Were the Court of Chancery to °c .. an visitors, that is, were a order to issue fro' : that high authority for papers and documin ts FP I ? the various seminaries, there would be an cod, according to law, to the power of the Vision s Commissioners ; consequently there would be "- necessity for superseding them, as their Hattori': was of coarse annulled. The Hon. Gentleto had talked much of inconsistency. Why not cal up his doctrines to the Schools ? Why not to lb Universities The fact is, that there was rio jar ., consistency as the matter now stood. It evident that those who were invested mitt) b i g authority, as in. the present case, frequently r 4. ercisedehat authority far beyond the power g rot ; ed by Parliament. He did not mean that ato s . lestitutittos were to blame. He knew their OP; arable worth, and no man could form a 14", estimate of their value. But highly as he resp ec `; ed the character of surh - Commissioners, he V is a anxious that the powers conferred on tham shou.7 in no instance be abused. It was therefore ree site that time law should be clear and expli c it oi l that head. In the year 1816, a Committee was 814 pointed, with instructions to inquire into the elm, cation and the state of the lower orders, and t i t : report their opinions thereon. Although aol'; powers were bestowed on the Committee I° ' the purposes of their ievestigation, it vr LIS never dreamed that their Chairman should some a power which he had not, and the House never granted, namely to s ummo ri before them the Dean and Chapter, amid MA4te rs of Westniiester—the Master of the Charter Ilea' e and of Eton—en order to call upon them tor lb° State 01 their funds, and the nature and ite , og e meat of their respective Institutions. In this ex ° traorditiary as,ump ion or power, never ti thid the contemplation of the Heine, all the o"b lic 4 seminaries, and all the charitable inslitoioo througheut the country, were to be included. II does so happen, that the Report of the Coron' it : tee in the year 1816 contains an account 0' " , 1 examination of the Eton and Westmiusters z 4l ' t therefore it might be easily referred to as a d"c e merit of authority. But the Right Hole Cl ot tleman (Mr. Peel) would not even now bci ;e , v l, that the, Committee were fully invested ° I : - that power. He should not dwell so P' timely on the transactions now alluded were it not to, repel in some measure O e prejudices of the Gentlemen on the other si ll of the Hoese, who were always eager to prrfr e complaints against the Gentlemen on the where he (Mr. Peel) and his friends generallyt occupied. Tile Committee llat he wes area, AbOti to speak of was that of ItilB. The House, hoped, would pardon him tor reading the •rier°' 4 of that Committee. For the inure easy illest°, lion of what he had to say, he would take the berty of dividing them into three classes, viz. (O s ! who might be termed, independent ,men, soto‘" times voting for, and sometimes against Goeer e went ; those who cesoferred with the 1-3oo"l'fi able Gentleman, anti those who voted in favour" „ Government. In attempting this classificatioo/6 he meant to impute no blame to any Honoaral, Member. They were all actuated by their fe e . , ingS and attachments, and therefore their ."- 3pective pursuits were so tar honourable.—(g e ; hear !)-1n the first class were Mr. Berclay , ,'"4 T. Acland, Mr. NVilberforce, Mr. Babington, uri c Mr. Burrell ; in the second, consisting of tb~ Honourable Member's friends, amounting to 11 were Mr. J. Smith, Mr. H. Smith, Mr. A. Sel'i f ,: ° Mr. Mann, MrJAhercrombie, Sir James Ma ckin nosh, Sir Francis Burdett, &c. Mr. BRoUGHAM, while the names were bei n t read, requested that the Right Hon. Gentlen' s j would read them slowly, that he might be ena ble to take them down. Mr. PEEL replied, that he understood the 9 ° 4 1 ' 4 cam, but, as it did not touch him, be was te a to comply. be Mr. BeotiGnere denied that be meant to sarcastic : it was necessary that he should be °t il e Dished with the names, it the question were 10 ' r , to depend upon their political propensities.- -- ( 1 der, order.) lie Mr. It. PERI. then resumed his speechee se came to the third class of the Committee- 411 : v . Members who generally voted in favour of is vernment, namely, the Horatii of the Go ve ' t - , ment, viz. Sir James Shaw, Mr. Aldermito kips, and Sir Wm. Curtis.—(Much laughter 4.. Mr. R. Peel again affirtned, that he meant t(' t ie s simulate improper ,motive to the Hon. Ge nt n e men whose names he had now noticed—more ear,, cially the Hon. Gentlemen whom be had ties e nated as the Horatii of Government. All tba i meant was, that it the Gentlemen on the 0 1 11 0 ,0 site side took the liberty of pointing out by i lo . particular individuals on the side to which b e jo t longed, he (Mr. Peel) bad an equal right to if d o out by name certain individuals un the side 0' Hon. Member. Mr. Bootrour am, it was believed, spoke to °r of Mr. PEEL resumed.—These were the nalne!,, the Committee of the year 1818. Various opiuT e a pt were . entertained before the Committee prese 6 , - og their Report. From that important - doentt i - 0 they derived some useful lnsons. A Bil l n - e r. !nought in for the appointment of Commissi°' to enquire into the state of the Charitable IP a s te onions for the purposes of It %% 1 ' 51 ' 1 ;0 posed that the Hon. Member (Mr. Brotighsid• should name the Commissioners. lo stance, there could be no want of candour n o " e l) part of the. Gentlemen with whom he (Mr. L g o so had the honour to act. In that Bill a claoe e n ce, brought, stating in .substance—" that if any son summoned before the .Commissioners 60, 0 neglect to. produce any paper or document, :Ole posed to be necessary for the information ' 0, Commissioners, tliat then the said Coninlissi(nieryi or any two of them and their Clerk or secte!-Ipc may issue an order for the commitment .tverf offender to any' prison in the kingdom' 1 ." Gentleman of a liberal mind would readys°. th Pr et