The Sun. — London, England, 1841-09-18 00:00:00

EVE IMPERIAL PARLIA3MNT. H OUSE OF COMMONS, Sept. 17. The t•qavikEa to. - •k the Chair at the usual hoar. Mr- port,CoJirrtA.NE took the oath s an d hi s scat for Brid the billthe'ilternh roo undreds m of Mr. Warb urton , w h o h ad accepted e . i • "-r • S. CRAWFORD presented a petiti on f rom Wil „lv , 44 '. Bullock weaver, of Biggar, Scotl an d. Th e pcti uaer stated that distress exists to an enormous extent g ''f-conc• the working classes. That this distress is pro crunceeby incoopolies, over taxation, and bad legislation of various kinds, created by imperfect representation. The petiti.aner, therefore, preyed th a t every man i n t h e real of , ttne mind, and uncomictea of cri:no, and who had attr,ined the age of 21 years, might have a vote Or Alernb era of Parliament. Mr-.I3ROTHERTON presented a petition from the Young Men? Society of Manchester, praying for the to tal rripeal of the Corn-laws, 'fr. COBDEN presc.tited petitions from the Inde- Pe' adent congregatioa tdßirminghans and from upwards Vt 30 0 of th e i n h a l-Itants of King's Lynn, in public :meeting assembled., prayiu for the aboliti • on of the bread -tax. .Z.klso two petitions from Independent co ngregation s of Dissenters in Stone, Staffordshire, pray ing for the abolidon of the Corn-laws ; a petition from the mei-libel-4 of u congregation of Protestant Dissenters in Donstal-ale, praying f corn or the; free admission of forei g n c into this Country ; a nd a p et i t i on f rom th e 'es e W Sall congregation of Eccle s , in favour of the 'repeal of the. Corn -laws. 11,e 4' tABRDLEY WILY OT presented a petition from u P"t'",:ign Anti-Slavery Society, complaining of British subjee,'s encouraging F,sasrery, and praying for a Corn mitte e of that House `.o inquire into and report upon the practices complaine,-a of. Mr. VILLIERS, resented a petition from distressed imanufac turers in, North Derbyshire, complaining of the T rivati"s unde- ts NT hich they were sefering, and praying or the total repe a l of the born-laws. The SPEA tchetayt-edtha rint i.ci l lt informed the House that he had re „ -''''' -mation from the Clerk of Recognizances, election- p's'ecArities for the prosecution of the following hester, -e 4tions were unobjectionable—Cardigan, Ro ): c ton -' `;•loticest Nottingham, Newry, Southami. , and ._ er, i not be ' 'el ral other places, - of which the names could aearcl in the allery. M r - TIMBER DUTIES. fl - • ROPE prese n t e d a p e tition from th e L eg i s l at i ve ---olltle'land the H ouse o f Assembly of Canada,agair.st any alteration of the Timber Duties. .•Pll IVA TEERING. D. BARCLAY gave notice that e;rl an early day ,!vould cer the re - assernbling,.of I'artiament the next year, he . move for an add r es s to her YAiiesty, praying her MaJesty to use her influence wit'', all maritime States to put down the barbarous pc - act . ..Ki of privateering, and to obtain treaties from those, States, binding them to suppress the practice amour' st their respective subjects. Mr. M. J. O'CONNEI,E moved for a return of cer tain correspor.dence re l Ating to the late election for the county of Ellrm an ag'.t. Captain PECI - FALL moved that the continuation of the returr is from the Commissioners of Assessed Taxes, re l ati ng' to the - number of distresses issued since 1832, prig .ted.—Ordered. MINISTERIAL POLICY. tbS' t the. PEEL having moved the Order of R se Hon go into a Committee of Supply, the Day d l-4 ° l *(l JOHN RUSSELL rose, and was for a consi erable time utterly inaudible, in consequence of noise made by' Members hurrying to their a ces. We. - understood him to say—Sir. I rise make a f ew o b servat i ons b efore the question is Pat, aecoa ding to what I stated last night, it was my intention to do. Presumin that this is a motion for a °ll3llVttee of Supply f or the purpose of placing a sum of Inr,ney at the disposal of the Crown, I consider it a fit occasion on which to state the view I have taken 0f the present state of the country, and of the course Vvhich the - Right Hon. Gentleman has informed the d I ouse he means to pursue. Before Igo into this topic, Wish to advert to one or two topics which are of great -public Importance. With respect, Sir, to our foreign relaticres, it does not appear to me t o b e feces that for any reason connected with them, that Parliament should continue to be assembled. The Fate of Europe happily holds out every prospect of the continuance of peace. The Speech which her Majesty 'was advised to address to Parliament, at the opening of the ;Session, gave the information that the temporary separati 'which had taken place between this country and F mice had ceased, and that the most amicable relati: jot t h en prevailed between the two countries. Sir,. T 'nave every „hop e th at , t h ese amicable relations will cor: Anue .—(H ear.) I hope c h at t h e lif e of the Prince ' , vb.:, now reigns over the esestinies of that county - will long be spared and be preserved from the attaaws of infatuated ass ass i ns (Cheers)— an d w h et h er -we regard the happiness of l`rance, or the peace of T .lurope, the preservation of that Prince's life must be 'aesired by every well-constituted mind.—(Hear, hen;', hear.) In one part of our foreign relations there is certainly a question in connection wit;„ the United States, which, in some of its aspects, •atfords cause of uneasiness ; but my Noble Friand, as Secretary for Foreian Affairs, satisfied t'ae House by the answer of the ti n ?ted States' Secretary, that both her Majesty's r .iovernment and the Go'iernment of the United States are perfectly agreed as to : the character which shoule, be attributed to the attack upon, and the, capture. of, the Caroline—(Loud ehe ers)—that it was a question to be debated between zurtion and nation, and not to b e t rea t e d as a pr i vate avronp,.. A sufficient view, however, had been -taken by the Judges of the State of New York, and if that view should be earned out, it would be de structive of all am i ca b le relations between the two Go vernments. If two Governments were not to decide if a question was irsternational, or between private indi viduals, and. any Judge had the power of deciding that a question which the Government considered national was a subjesa for the Local Courts, no amicable relation could subsist between the two States.—(Hear, hear.) I have 'read the judgment of the Judges who decided - this Ca? e, and in that judgment it seemed to be admitted that Vie two Executive authorities had agreed that the case was one which should be decided between the two Gtmernments. But the Judge who had decided that circa had stated it as his own opinion that it could not 'e considered as a case of war, and theref ore th a t :it was a p ro p e r one to h e decided by his own - tribunal. It appears to me that this is a doctrine to which no Government can agree. For, according to this doctrine, if Sir Graha.An Moore, or any other officer who had captured the Spanish frigates at the beginning of the Spanish war, should be taken before a Spanish tribu nal, it would be equally competent to the Judge of that tribunal to say there was no declaration of war at the time these captures were made, therefore the captures are piratical, and the officers engaged in them are liable to be convicted of murder. But on the whole it appears that, although such may be the construction of the law adopt ed by the State of New York ; yet, considering what has been stated on one side by Mr. Fox, and • on the other by Mr. Webster, with regard to cir cumstances attending the capture of the Caroline, and the accordance of opinion existing on that subject— (llear)—l do not believe that the authorities of Amoz..rica will permit any occurrence to take place 'wb:ich will expose any subject of her Majesty to danger fr,r executing the command s o r hi s S overe i gn. I therefore - feel convin ce d that. while S:ae two Governments are agreed, it; is not likely that therel will arise any cause of war between the two countries, I am sure that there prevails in this country, sand I trust that there prevails in Ame rica also, the s„ ee ngest desire that peace may be preserved between th ese two great countries.—(Chtrers.) Having thus allu':led to the only matter which appears to me to re . quire any - remark as regards our for e i gn re l a ti ons . I will now wake one remark on the recent appointments - which the' Right Hon. Gentleman has thought it right to make a', respects the Government of Ireland. I have Apnea 'those appointments with great satisfaction._ (Cher Ts.) I see in them evidence that the Right Hon. Gend.leman is determined to carry into effect those con cilisstory opinions which he has so often expressed with l'es , ;ard to that country.—(Hear, hear.) I entertain the ghest respect for the character of the new Lord Lieu tenant; and, with regard t o th e N o bl e L or d w h o h as b een - appointed Secretary for Ireland, I think that that Noble 'Lord has shown on various occasions a desire to place the peopl e of Ireland in that condition with which alone they ought to be satisfied—a condition of equality with the other people of the United Kingdom.—(Cheers.) I may add, lilcewise, that I trust that the Noble Lord, the Chief Secretary for Ireland - , , will not re-introduce a measure, whie'n, in the hall& of' another Noble Lord, (Stanley) had, already been agitated in this House.—(Cheers.) rex I feel by that measure the contract entered into with the people of Ireland in 1829 will be violated, and. 'that it cannot be adopted without speedily and utterly destroying the character of the representation of the people of Ireland.—(Cheers.) I say I have great confidence that Lord Eliot will not cou ntenance any Bill of that nature in this House.—(Cheers.) An. I trust that what has passed of late years to consolidate the peace of that country, will receive yet further deve lopment ; and that, in every step taken by that Noble Lord, h e will, endeavour, as far as possible, to meet the views and expectations which have been entertained of him, acting, of course, under the advice, and by the directions, of the Light Hon. Gentleman.—(Cheers.) I come now to that part of the subject which it is my misfortune to ' d iffer - widely from her Majesty's Government. We are n° %' met in pursuance of an intimation, first given by the Right Hon. Gentleman, but in w hi c h th e mem b ers of turd Melbourne's Government perfectly concurred, that 7 &gem after the dissolution as possible, it would be de !lrrsble that Parliament should be re-assembled, in order to t 2 lke i nto cons id erat i on t h e i mportant a f fa i rs of the nation. , t eensiderahl e i n t er rupti o n w as h ere occas i one d b y t h e - "Id tone in which Sir Francis Burdett was carrying on 'a Conversation with some Hon. Member on the Minis leritil bench. The voice of the Hon. Baronet completely 'drowned that of Lord John Russell for some moments, When loud cries of " Order" induced the Hon. Baronet loniewhat to lower his tone.) The Noble Lord con !lolled—Her Majesty was advised by her late Ministers, 411 ! the Speech delivered at the opening of Parliament, .t. O advise the House to take into its considera tion the laws relating to the trade in corn. 4 ` Her Majesty is desirous that you should consider the laws which regulate the trade in corn. It will be for y ou to determine whether these laws do not aggravate the natural fluctuations of supply, whether they do not ernbarress trade, derange currency, and, by their Operation, diminish the comfort and increase the p r i vat i ons of the great body of the community." The importance of these considerations no person can doubt. Laws which embarrass trade, derange the currency, andincrease the privations of the great body of the corn baunity, supposi ng such to be their effect, ought at once to be altered. There can be no more solemn duty than for Parliament to alter those laws which have such a per nicious effect. In answe r to that speech as ad dressed to the Crown, in these words—" We as iii.i•o your 11, jesty t h at we are deeply sensible , of the importance of those considerations to which your Majesty has been pleased to direct our attention with sreferenoe to the commerce and revenues of the country, '%~~r. and to the laws whichregulated the trade in corn." Upon that subject the House were unanimous. The House of commons, however, thought it their duty to state to her Majesty that ihe Ministers did.nbt possess their confidence, and they addressed her Majesty for the purpose of effecting a change of Govern.. ment. The advice of this House was promptly acceded to by her Majesty, and the Right Hon. Geil&man op posite constructed the Administration which is now formed, havingsuch an unalterable attachment to the Con stitution in Church and State, and to the sliding scale—(Laughter)--but this Address having been com plied with by the Crown, it certainly would seem that the time was come when these important laws eught to be taken into consideration.—(Hear, hear.) Far — be it from me, and I hope from any one in this House, is say that you should attend exclusively to mea sures, and not to men. I think you ought to attend to both ; but, at the same time, I think men should not be substituted for all measures, but, having the men in authority, you ought also to have before you the measures which they approve—(Hear.) What, then, is the state of the case ? the Right Hon. Gentleman states, and I am not disposed to qua . rrel with that statement, that much time has been lately occupied in the formation of a new Adminis tration, and that he could not consider these important points ; but although that may he a good rea son to plead for the last fortnight, it does not seem to be any reason for postponing for five months the consider ation of these subjects. Let .us consider the previous deliberations which the Right Hon. Gentleman, and those who act with him have held on these points. It was upon the lash day of April that the measures relatir .6 - to the Budget were announced, and that I gave nefiee of moving for a Committee of the whole IT-_,,ase on the laws relating to the trade in corn. gave notice that I would introduce the subject ' ert a *month from that 'of surprise were uttered. It time very strong expressions was said that although the laws relating to C. eve had a right to consider .en, and although it was right that the Government`'..could propose such measures, yet that the delay of month was an intolerable evil, for which the Go vs:. ntnent of that day was j u stly c e n sura bl e .— (Hear, hear, hear.) It was thought proper shortly after to • bring forward a motion declaring that the then Ministers ought not to retain office, and the decision upon that motion prevented my proceeding with the question relating to corn. But from that time the Right Hon. Gentleman has had four months to consider what course he will pursue, and he proposes now to add to those four months five additional months before he will communicate to the House of Commons the measures which the Government think necessary on this subject. He does not say, as he might, "We stand upon the present Corn-law; we think no altera tion necessary ;" on the contrary, he said he would not accept office, on the condition of being bound not to make any alteration in the Corn-law. It cannot be inferred from such expressions that he thinks an alteration necessary. and yet the Right Hon. Gentle man, who has certainly gone far with others in that expression of indignation at delay, and who said, I ought, to be obliged in some manner to bring forward the ques tion in less than a month, adds eight months to that period, and conceives that he is justified in asking for this long delay.—(Hear, hear.) Sir, there are symptoms in the construction of the Go vernment itself which induce me to entertain very great doubts whether any important alteration in the Corn law will be effected. I am not alluding to the construc tion of the Administration with a view to any personal re marks, but I cannot help noticing the appointment of the Duke of Buckingham.—(Hear, hear.) Sir, this to me is a symptom that no considerable alteration in the Corn-laws will be effected by the present Government. r I do not doubt the conscientious opinion of the Duke of Buckingham. I do not doubt that he thinks a protec tion such as the present law gives, or one, at least, equivalent to it, if not a greater pr,stection, necessary to the agriculture of the country, I d o no t d ou bt th a t h e has hld that opinion with, a view to the general interests of the country, and I continue to 1101' :to not doubt likewise that he will that opinion. I have been told that when a sort of threat was tittered thtit the late Ministry should no longer hold office, because they had proposed an Bs. fixed duty On corn, and that any other Ministry which t oo k a, similar course would meet with a similar fate—l 'nave been told that there were none who more der.eanstrated their approbation and acquiescence in that ,sentiment than the Noble Duke to whom I have referred. Why, Sir, there are others who have not given any very decided pledge on the subject. The Right Hon. Gentle man himself has not been very explicit.—(Hear, hear.) There is a sliding scale, but a sliding scale may amount to a prohibition, and may give less protection than a fixed duty.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman, therefore, and others, leave their opinions unknown, and have not given any indica tion of the nature of the measures they mean to propose. But, Sir, while I observe the Noble Duke to whom I have alluded is a Member of the Cabinet, there are others to whom the Right Hon. Gentleman has not given office, and who have expressed more liberal views with regard to free trade. Ido not perceive Sir George Murray, who had been Secretary of State for the Co lonies in the Duke of Wellington's Cabinet, and was also a Member of the Right Hon. Gentleman's last Ad ministration, holding any place in the present Cabinet; and I believe he expressed himself in favour of a fixed duty of Bs., and even less than Ss.—(Hear, hear, hear.) There had been a selection of those who gave a decided expression of opinion in favour of the Corn-laws—there was a selection of those in favour of prohibition—(Hear, hear)—and there had been a neglect or exclusion of those who pronounced any opinion for free trade.— (Loud- cries of " Hear, hear.") Was it possible, that in the present state of the country—expecting something to be done on the subject of the Corn-laws—was it possible, Sir, that those expectations of large and im proved measures should be put off for a period of five months ?—(Cheers.) If such be the case- —if such be your intentions, then I say the arguments you used against the delay of a month, which was proposed by the late Government, fall with ten-fold force against yourselves.—(Cheers.) It were better, ,for the sake of trade itself, that it may not be at a loss what to do—it were better, for the sake of agriculture, that it may not be depressed by unfound e d f ea r s , hat you should declare your adherence, if you do intend, to the present law, and will make no alteration.—(Hear, hear.) You may attempt some correction of the fraud in the ave rages, by which you may make the law more stringent. —(Cheers.) You may lower the pivot scale to 4s. or ss.—that may be your intention ; but if it is, why should it not be proposed in the mouth of October ? Why should the expectations of the country be set at nought, and this long delay of five months be interposed. If it be your intention to make no alteration—if you intend to snake a different number of shillings the pivot scale, or a scale more graduated than the present, then I say this length of time should not elapse, but you should make up your minds at once.—(Cheers.) This, I think affects the character of the present Administration, and I think the promises of the Right Honourable Gentleman should not be deferred for five months. But then I cannot agree to those imputations which have been made against some Gentlemen, that ies the course they adopt upon any subject they are actuated . by some selfish object—(Hear)—but when I say that I must add, that having interests in those subjects often gives a bias to the question in dispute.—(Hear, hear.) For instance, when they talked of free trade in silk, it was said that the interests of the country required that that commodity should have protection,- so with respect to the ship owners, they thought that the interests of the country required that their particular branch of com merce should be protected ; in short, there can be no doubt that all parties were snore or less biased by their own interests. But, fur the sake of the House of Commons, it is important that this should be kept in mind, because, though it iaclear that the delay you pro pose is for the convenience of the Administration, it is equally clear that it is for the advan tage of those who think that rents will be effected by a change in the Corn-laws.—(Hear, hear.) While such things continue, therefore, it cannot fail to be im puted to you, that such views as these have some in fluence upon your decisiOn, and that you do not act solely for the public good.—(Hear.) I think, therefore, that it will require that some better case should be made than the one brought forward by the • Right Honourable Baronet, to postpone the important questions to which I have alluded fur so long a period. What is the state of the manufacturing interest ? —(Hear, hear.) I do not wish to say anything which might be construed into a declaration of my belief, that any laws you can establish will prevent great distress from existing among the manufacturing districts.—(Hear.) I do not think - any laws you can pass will prevent those fluc tuations which may arise either from the state of our foreign relations, or from a long course of over trad ing, or from accidents that may occur from time to time; but what I think the duty of Parliament is this—to be able to say that we at least have no part in causing the continuance of distress ; and for this purpose I think it necessary you should be able to show that your duties and - your restrictions are for some n ecessary object in the State—(Hear, hear)—that they are necessary fur the purposes of revenue, or for the purpose of placing a certain part of the community, which is over-taxed, upon a condition of equality in that respect with other classes ; or that they are necessary in order to make the transition more gradual, and not to bring a sudden state of embarrassment on any inte rest or class of subjects who have been unduly pro tected. But do your own Corn-law s come under the head of measures which can be thus defended ? hear)—and that if th( Are they necessary for the sake , of revenue ? On the it is quite clear that y our present law defeats of Bs. per contrary,alpurposesl —(hille-laoru'r to announce, and which ' f laying qu , ( r a - he w r 'o e ul l c ‘ l o b u e ld no be w , was never discussed, o measurel iocrh revenue—( v h e a n d u e the o on a fixed duty some 400,0001. or 500,0001. the richer._ quarter, had been adopted, Exchequer in all probability, one million Is your present law more admitted into this country. or twelve thousand quarters necessary for protecting the far better in that think certainly that a fixed duty is agricultural interest ? I hear.) I a for a re spect, and that you have no c a use to snake out prohibition on that ground. (Hear, never heard a cause . made out ce rtainl y transi tion, because it has been adopted as a perm anent s 3 stem. pro hibitory duty on that grqund. L astl y , y say that this duty is necessary, in order to makeo cat who are If that is the state of the laws, I say that those distressed have a right to come to you, and ask you to consider their case—ask you to change any i as which a ff ec t s th em —to change any law which paralyzes trade and embarrasses industry, and as fas as legislation can do it, to place them in a better condition. You should not be able to say—above all, you should n ot p rom i se —th a t by such a law you would place theta in a state of entire prosperity, and that you would avert from them all fiuctuationsof distress; but you would be able to say, whatever those distresses are, wefeel the deepest compassion for them, and for the restrictions which aggravate those distresses we are not responsible—Parliament has no share ;~ 7 , clueing them. Now that is why* T Y~t~~. . THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 18, 1t441. justly say at present. If such distress exists, as it un doubtedly does, I think no personal inconvenience attendant on the sitting of Parliament for six weeks longer ought to prevent our taking into consideration this autumn the law which regulates the trade in corn-. There has been an address presented to her Miesty, which was agreed to at Manchester at a public meeting, convened in compliance of a requisition, bearing 1,018 signatures of merchants, manufacturers, and other respectable individuals of all classes, and Which states that they approach the Throne in order to state their sentiments of profound venera tion for her Majesty's person and their ardent attachment to the throne—that commercial depression was extreme, and that all classes of her Majesty's sub- ,sects, and especially the poorer classes, were enduring privations more grievous than had ever been knovvn. to iheir oldest inhabitants. They begl to assure her Majesty that during the last four years that distress has existed, and has been increasing and that it has been borne by thousands of victims with an enduring patience highly creditable to their moral character.—(Hear.) They state that the ability to ex ercise acts of benevolence by the upper and middle classes begins to fail, and that the distress under which . - - the poor - have suffered have begun to visit these;, and that, in contemplating the Ttpproach of winter under these circumstances, thell' hearts sink within them, and they sigh at the project of such bitter destitution, They therefore pray elm . her _Royal Prerop.•'• r .der 'Majesty, in the exercise of ve - will b 3 pleased not to prorogue the two as th,' houses of Parliament until such time . ... portion of her Majesty's gracious Speech, deli .,erod at the opening of the present Session, relating to the Corn laws, shall have been fully .delibe- rated in Parliament; and they state that her i\lajesty's compliance with their prayer will be to them an assu rance that she is graciously disposed, as she has ever been, to interest herself in the happiness and welfare of her people.--(Hear, and cheers.) Now, Sir, this is not the opinion and sentiments of Manchester only, but the sentiments of other towns suffering like- wise under similar distress. If you separate, the only remedy which can be applied is the one already hinted, namely, by the interposition of relief given out of the rates raised for the support of the Poor. Now, Sir, if there were occasional privations and occa sional distress, that might be a reasonable proposition, but if not—if it is connected generally with the state of tree trade, I beg leave to say that such a remedy will be quite inefficacious.—(Cheers.) Supposing the case were similar to that which occurred in some agricultural parishes before the introduction of the New Poor- law, when the produce and profit of the land were entirely absorbed by the poor's-rate, you are, then, de stroying the source of manufacturing prosperity. But you must remember that it is the power of those en gaged in manufactures, when they find themselves subject to continual losses during a period of four years, one year after another—it is in their power to withdraw their capital from those manufacturing establishments to preserve that capital, and leave the people depending on them to that relief from the Poor -rates, which must issue in the entire sacrifice of the land itself. I am afraid—and I have heard instances in which this has taken place—that persons finding one half of their capital already gone, may resolve to save the other half by ceasing to employ art in manufac tures in this country. In the course of the debate two months ago, when we were discussing the Corn-laws, the Right Hon. Gentleman argued against the notion then entertained that we were arrived at a state of great manufacturing distress, and I remember my observing then, that I did not think that the case of manufacturing distress such as it was stated had been made out, but that it was advisable that the House should effect an alteration in the Corn-laws; because if that manufacturing distress should really reach to a great pitch hereafter, your interposition would then be too late. My- argument was, that so long as you had any possibility of retaining your markets manufac tures would continue to be sent abroad—so long as ma nufacturers had the least chance of obtaining a profit on their goods, they would consign their goods to foreign markets ; but when they had lost those markets—when you arrived at that period when your manufactures could not be sold abroad, you would then have lost those mar kets—it will then be too late for you to interpose, and the alteration of your laws will not bring a remedy to the evils which have occurred.—(Hear.) I am afraid that with respect to one branch of our manufactures—l mean our cotton trade—if it be not relieved by some alteration in our laws, and by a greater freedom of trade, it will be outdone by foreign competition—(Hear, hear) — that our manufacturing establishments will be broken up, and that a large portion of the population, which cannot be relieved from the poor-rate, will then be left without any resource.—(Hear.) If there be any grounds for these apprehensions, they at least form a matter for the consideration of Parliament. You may say, " That these fears are unfounded ; and in considering those Matters which were laid before you in the Queen's Speech, you may say that we have come to the ' opi nion that the manufitcturing prosperity of, this country is based upon a rock— -that it is unshaken—that the Corn-laws do not affect it—but, on the contrary, the Corn-laws tend to the welfare of the country—that is the is7sult of our solemn deliberation." Why, if that be the result of your solemn deliberation, so state it, and that will at least give the country the satisfaction of knowing that you have fairly and fully considered the subject. But what is now proposed is merely this, that you should grant certain sums of money ; that you should pass a continuance of laws which would expire at the end of the present year, and then, without any sort of inquiry, without any sort of consideration, that until five months hence you shall not come to any conside ration on the great questions which agitate the country. As far as relates to the finances of the country, in my opinion it is now necessary to take some measures which we might hope would alleviate their present state. In my opinion it would be far better to adopt a course of measures which, if they did not yield an increase of re venue, yet would yield an increase of the trade and com merce of the country, and so make the revenue equal to its expenditure. But the only proposal which has been made is to obtain a vote of credit to continue until the next year. I, Sir, deeply regret the course proposed to be pursued, for I am afraid it will not give satisfaction to the country, and more especially to those residing in the manufacturing districts.— (Hear, hear.) I feel thoroughly persuaded that if, in stead of pursuing this course, you had adopted those measures which the late Government announced on the 13th of April last, they would have produced a revival of trade—(Loud eheering)—and, in augment ing the revenue by such means, you would have secured a still greater object, an increase of the comforts and happiness of the people.—(Cheers.) Nay, more, by de claring to the whole world that you were about to inter change your products for theirs on a free basis, you would have contributed to the future peace of the world.— (Loud cheers.) For there can be no feeling so strong — no security equal to the feeling that one country derives benefits from the other—(Cheers)—and that if such in tercourse be interrupted, will cause far greater calamities than an ordinary war between hostile nations. (Loud cheers..) It is not because our measures would improve the revenue merely, but because they would contribute to the peace of the world, that I deeply regret their rejection. But even now, although they have been rejected, I think still that the Right lion. Gentleman and her Majesty's present Government ought not at once to decide that they will not enter into the consideration of measures so important on the present occasion.— (Cheers.) Still I feel per suaded that if they have made up their minds to pursue that course, unwise although I think it, they will receive the support of that majority which recently placed them in office ; but when toe events of the year are reviewed, it will be found by the people of the coun try that great advantages would have been derived from the fair consideration, instead of the abrupt re jection of those measures, and that in adjourning their consideration until next year, you adjourn all the bene fits which would have flowed from them. It is not my intention on this occasion, or on any other, to propose any motion to the House, or to ask any division against the course proposed to be taken by the Right Hon. Gen tleman ; but, as a Member of this House, I beg not to be held responsible in any way for the course which will most likely, be pursued. Sir R. PEEL said, Sir, the course I took yesterday in announcing to the House the proceedings which I pro posed to adopt with respect to the public business of the country, will have been a sufficient indication that I had no wish at the commencement of the harassing and ar duous task committed to me, to commence it by any con troversy of a party nature. At the same time I am per fectly ready to admit that that course of proceeding con stitutes no rule for the Noble Lord—that our respective positions are different—and that he is entirely at liberty to invite me to the discussion which he has opened; and, although I had no wish to originate the discussion, yet I can assure the Noble Lord that I am little disposed to avoid it, and on the contrary, I am thankful rather than otherwise for the opportunity of commenting on the observations he has made.—(Loud cheers.) I refer in the first instance to the facts on which there can be no material disagreement between us. I concur with the Noble Lord in the earnest desire that our amicable relations may be maintained between this country and France, and, if possible, I shall more cordially concur with him in the prayer he expressed, that it may please Almighty God to continue his protection from the hand of assassins to that great man to whom the destinies of that country have been intrusted.—(Cheers) Sir, it is impossible to hear of those abominable attacks—of those infamous and sense less attempts—without feeling pain for the character of humanity, but it appears as if Providence had provided some compensation for them, for the only results of these attempts is to provoke one general feeling of disgust to wards their abettors, and it would appear as if some special protection was vouchsafed to that Illustrious family; and my firm belief r- is, sIN t l a pi t lc s it c o l: t o e Ng ng oaba a lre s a in t a hey continue toered fionrt ltietl ewpisr wish that e te hr r vaat i g tai r so ithey sosfi lm constitute a petaiocen.mlayjobine _defected, and the assass i ns meet w i th s i gnal punishment. Sir, I cannot anticipate that the change which has taken ---(rl , m h y e hear.) indispositionr lhave rteocwe towards v r e d t a l t n h o e i p n r t e i _- place in the G overnment i s l i kely to interrupt our ami cmaabtlieoar e fm l r a o ti o France. sent Government, or any apPrehension that our amicable relations may be impaired. I should be surprised if it were so, for I recollect, on the occurrence of those events which shook to its foundation the throne of the empire of France, as regarded the family of the Bourbons, I w as one of those who, in conjunction with the illustrious Duke of Wellington, and many of those who are now joined with me in the Government, seeing that it a ppeared the will 'of the authorities - of the people of France that their Gos ernment should be committed to other hands, we aid, notwithstanding the relutance of the power with whom we were in most cordial rela tion —we did at osce advise the Crown of this coun try to recognise that Sovereign on whom the choice of the people of France anneared " With ''- ' Millen. w ire man who Ilia beery tio justly Braised • Pro - by the Noble Lord--I mean the man who' now go'Orns 4 clink yon emo franco e qual ly with the IsToble Lora hope for his preservation.—(Cheers.) Consistently with the main tenance of British honour, and without exclusive treaties, I should desire to maintain intimate relation 3 of amity with Fronde, I thhilt the intimate relations of amity between England and France almost essential to the maintenance of general peace. It must conduce to tho advancement of social improVement a nd general civiliza tion.-(Grtat theeting,) am not now using language to seatte the continuance of our present relations, or to court the good opinion of the French • Govern ment.—(Cries of " Hear, hear."). During- ten years, when I was out of office, my language has always been the same.--(Hear, hear.) I have taken every opportu nity of assisting in keeping up peaceful relations, and I gave all my assistance to affect an oblivion of the late hostile collision.—(Hear.) I wish it may be forgotten and that each nation may repose under the laurels which each had gained, and. those two nations, so distinguished in arts and military achievements, may maintain peaceful r e l a ti ons w i t h out any di s p a ragement of their honour.—(Hea r , h ear. ) Thi s i s essential to the welfare of th e wor ld . — ( Ch eers. ) This is the doctrine which I h ave a l ways ma i n t a ined when Gentlemen opposite were in power, and it is not likely that I shall now shrink from its repetition.—(Cheers.) As to the United States, I confess I look to the present state of our relations with th*Mvith great-anxiety. — Hear, hear.) It seems to be as manifestly the interest of these two countries, which are united by so many ties, to avoid a hostile collision, that? hope the good feeling and the good sense of the people of this country will aid the Government if any necessity for that aid should arise. But at the same time I feel the obligation of making no concession derogatory to the honour of this country for the sake of a temporary conciliation.—(dreatCheering.) I now come to that questio n on w hi c h t h e con troversy arises between the Noble Lo r d an d myse lf , and I particularly regret that the Nobl e L or d d ec li nes to take the sense of the House upon the difference of our views. The House was elected under his auspices (Loud cheers) and I wish he had taken its sense as to the propriety of the course which I mean to pursue.—(Hear, hear.) I think it would be no more than reasonable—if, after ten years, during which I have sat in this House as a private individual — I think that, on returning to office, it would be no more than reasonable that I should not be expected, within fourteen days, to propose a mea sure fur altering all the laws of trade and commerce. — (Cheers.) I thought it would be seen that there was a necessity for obtaining official information, which would require time, and that it was but rersonahle to permit me to have an interval in consequence.—(Hear, hear.) But if I am responsible for not proposing the altera tion of the Corn-laws in one month, dat is to be thought of that Government—(Tremendous cheering)—l say, what is to be thought of that Govesnment which held office for five years, and never, until the month of May, 1841, intimated a united opinion on the question ? If you are . convinced that intolerable evils are inflicted on this country by the operation of the Corn-laws — that commercial distress may justly be attributed, and that the sufferings to which the working classes in some parts of the country are exposed under those laws—what, I ask, is your responsibility for not having, in five years, brought forward any proposition to remedy the evil? — (Cheers.) Why did you leave it an open question ? (Cheers.) If you say you had no hope of carrying it, then I tell you that, when I make up my mind for an alteration in the Corn-laws, no such consideration will induce me to act as you have acted. — (Great cheering.) No fear of my proposition succeed ing here, and being defeated there, would cause me to hesitate in stating to Parliament the decision of a united Cabinet, whatever might he the result. But you, having those opinions, permitted Lord Melbourne, in the House of Lords, to state that there was no necessity . for altera tion, and to oppose inquiry.—(Renewed cheering.) You object to the men whom we have chosen to join us. Why did you make that man - the Vice-President of the Board of Trade who was pledged to oppose all inquiry? Five years have elapsed without any action on the part of the late Government with respect to the Corn-laws. —(Hear, hear.) It was not till April, 1841, that you brought the question of them forward. And why, if you entertained those feelings which you then represented with respect to them—why, I ask, did you not call the attention of the House to them in the Queen's Speech of 1840 ? Why reserve this question till you have made an appeal to the people, and have been left in a minority of 80?—=(Cheers.) You brought forward the Corn-laws in 1841, and in a way that was most calculated to pre judice the mind of the country with respect to them.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Of course there can be no doubt that the, view you have taken with respect to that question is a philosophic one.—(A laugh.) No matter whether you raise one shilling or one million by the Corn-law duty you proposed, it was still your duty to call the attention of Parliament to those subjects which were drying up the national prosperity.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") What reason could there be in 1841, at the commencement of the Session, why you should not have inserted in the Queen's Speech some recommendation analogous to that which you inserted when you found you could do no otherwise?—(Hear, hear.) You propose the 'al teration of the Corn-laws as a means of raising revenue, and your proposal is not a vague or general re commendation to take the Cora-laws into consideration; it can be no other than a recommendation to adopt the tax of Bs. a quarter on foreign corn.—(Hear, hear.) That was the proposal you made. Do you adhere to it now, or do you not ?—(Hear, When.you recommended in your Queen's Speech, in August, 1841, that the Corn-laws should be taken into the consideration of Parliament, had your recommen dation reference =merely to some -vague and indefi nite inquiry into the operation of the Corn laws?—(Hear, hear, hear.) Had it reference to the specific proposition made by you in the month of May preceding, for a fixed duty of eight shil lings upon the importation of foreign corn? If you say that you are not bound to adopt the fixed duty of Bs. a quarter, what must be your modesty in calling upon me to declare what measures I am prepared to adopt, if you already see reason to doubt the policy of imposing a fixed duty of Bs. a quarter on the importation of foreign corn?—.(Cheers.) If VOU say that the subject is one still open to consider ation—that a new Parliament may entertain new views on the subject—then justify me in main taining my present reserve, until I shall be enabled to give permanent effect to whatever measures I may propose. But if you, as you must, answer t h a t you meWt by that recommendation the imposition of an Bs. fixed duty, to be levied universally on the importation of foreign corn, without reference to price, then permit me to say that you owe sonic acknowledgments to myself and to others who had prevented you from carrying that measure into effect.— (Cheers.) I may be allowed to say, that if that had occurred, which at one period seemed exceedingly likely to occur—if the weather had continued unfavour able, and the price of wheat had risen to 90s. a quarter, and your measure of a fixed duty of Bs. had been carried, we should probably have now been assembled under your auspices to seek from Parliament authority to do away with that duty which you had imposed. If it had been possible to have carried through Parliament your proposition at this moment, there would have been a fixed duty of Bs. a quarter levied on the im portation of foreign corn, and I think there would have been some contrast between the opera tion of that duty and the present operation of the law, by which a considerable quantity of wheat has been admit ted, or at least will be admitted, at a duty of ls. a quar ter. I cannot but think that circumstances might occur which would render the levying of an Bs. duty exceed ingly embarrassing.—(Cheers.) Now, with respect to the subject of finance.- The Noble Lord laments that I ' have brought forward no proposal involving permanent taxation. I regret that the Noble Lord will not take the decision of the House on the subject.—(Cheer~.) I wish that he would take that decision.-- . -(Cheers.) Having been en ;aged in the formation of an Administration—. having had all the arrangements to make consequent upon the forming a Government—having had to devote some time to those arrangements—the Noble Lord asks if we are prepared to bring forward. any measure for increasing permanently the taxation of the country ? Now, I ask the House to consider what is the position I inherit ?—(Loud cheers.) For five years, Gentlemen opposite held power. -In 1838, or rather I'sheuld say in 1837, the deficiency between expenditure and revenue amounted to 1,428,0001. In the year 1838 there was a deficiency of 430,0001.; in the year 1840 the deficiency was 1,457,0001. In 1841 the deficiency . amounted to 1,851,000.1., making a gradual accumulating deficit up to the sth April, 1841, of 5,166,000/. In the year ending the sth April, 1842, it is estimated, and estimated with lamentable truth, that this deficit in this single year will amount to 2,500,0001. making a total defielt—anaccu mulating deficit (if I maybe allowe to use th - detrase) on the last five years of 7,666,0001. I come ttl the administra tion of finance. I have been in office one month, and I am asked at once to propose a reraedy for this state of things.—(Ministerial cheers.) And what lights have I from the late Government ? If I look to your Budget, shall I repair the deficiency ? So far from it, I shall proceed to show, as , the Noble Lord h as provoked me i”to this discussion , that even if your Budget realised all your expectations, you must have proposed a vote of credit in order to make good your calculations—that y ou amount in Right H on. F r i end should, if your most sanguine c a lculations were verifi e d, have to propose a vote of credit partaking o f th e tihe of at least 800,0001 . vote which cFwh(i)alrireasepetele. propose, o o s f e , t that thato there was to b e a deficit of 2,500,0001., you propose your fin anc i a l measures repairto l ti c Chancellor timber, this f d t e h fi e increasingc t . You Exchequerth atot propose o to dimini s h th e d uty on Baltic credit for 600,000/.0 Canadian, and th e to be derived from that change. Now I will prove to the satisfaction of every one of you that not one shilling of that 600,000/. would be obtained. - Lord Sydenham has expressly declared, that although concurring in the general principle of the policy of an alteration in the timber duties 7 —and I am not now discussing the com mercial policy of the alteration—l am only considering the financial part of this bearing of the Budget of the On the Nth of April, is felt by those engaged present year t . I rim merely considering, the more limited :et of any alteration in question—had I adopted your Budget I should be spared the necessity in which I ant at present involved.—(Hear.) i H I si e 4t a il r i,e what Lord er l ri 4 t o et r sr d a„ yaetn Greatl the naf prospect a s rr ti cm : de the duties levied on wood in the United Kingdom, and which may affect the protection afforded to colonial tim ber ; but the question t must be decided by the Imperial Parliament on the view which it takes of the general in terests of the empire." He says, " I conceive that if any change be determined on that may disturb the pro portion that the colonial and foreign timber trade bears to each other, care should be taken to diminish as much as possible the loss to individuals by rendering the change gradual, Its suc h a course i s the most just as it is also the most politic : bet T - -- r .-- teat wnatever alteration maybe adopted, the reeormendAti O n of tlk° CMulltieP 1815, of which I was fihaieman, will I . ) e adheFea to, namely, that the change glibuld no t affect the importation of 'the par, since that would bear extremely haul on the Cvlortiol timber. merchant." I turn now to the recommendation of that Committee, and I find the recommendation given to which he alludes. The Report of that Com mittee is dated, Aug. 1835, and contains the following resolution :—" That it is the opinion of this Committee that if such reduction ha made, so far as may be con- sistcnt with the • interests of the revenue, it _ shall be made without an augmentation of the duty on colonial timber," and the recommendation is " that it is the opinion f this Committee that any alte rition should not affect the shipments made in 1836." That is to say, Lord Sydenham, writing in 1835, recom mends that the alteration in the duty should be post poned to 1837—(Hear, hear)—and he (the Governor of Canada) responsible for the peace of that important pro • vinee strongly advised you to adhere to that resolution of 18:15. If you had done so, as I believe you would, is it not clear as day that not a shilling could be derived from this source to . meet the deficiency of the year ending April, 1842, and einse quently that the item 600,000/. must be struck out of the estimate ?—(Cheers.) Add this 600,0001. to the 800,000/. referred to, and you have a clear deficit of 1,400,001., for svhich no attempt was made to provi:le. —(Cheers.) I now come to sugar. Upon sugar 700,00 d was to be received, and that in consequence of the im portation into this country of foreign sugar, on which a duty of 375. was to be levied, being a differential duty of 12s. in favour of British sugar. By this a sum of 700,0001. was to be raised. _ But such being the reduction in the price of British sugar, without; the introduction of foreign sugar, I am disposes] to doubt the statement of the Noble Lord, and that , of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that the revenue they calculated upon would accrue upon the introduction o. foreign sugar. I have returns of the price of sugar from the 4th of May to the 7th of September, in the years 1340 and 1841. I believe the average price of sugar during that time was 56.4.6 d. I have not the exact calculation, but I am disposed to think: it was more. I will take a period of six months, and I find the price for each month to be thus per cwt.:-57s 4d., 565. 9d., 57s op., 58s. ld., 58s. 4d., 58s. 9d. These were the prices in 1840, and they were as follow in the corresponding months in,1841 :-375., 365. 4A d., 365. 2d., 365. 4 d., 3 65. 3 d., 34 5. B d. Let them compare the price of sugar for the last two weeks, ending the 7th of Sept. in 1840 and 1841, and they would find in the former year the price was 58s. 9d. per cwt. And in the latter 345. 9d., being a reduction of 24s.—(Loud cheers.) The average price of sugar since the 4th of May does not exceed 365. Bd., being subject to a duty of 255. The calculation of the Noble Lord was, that foreign sugar could only be imported when the price of sugar in the British market was 61s. The price of foreign sugar in bond is 225., and the duty of 375: added to this will make it 595., which will be further increased by the profits of the retailer. The Noble Lord was correct when he stated that Gls. was the • price at which foreign sugar could be profitably imported. And here was the British sugar sold at a price not ex ceeding what the foreign grower could offer his at in the British market.—(Cheers.) And that being the case, and making a deduction for some. quantity of imported sugar which was brought to market, what became of the promised 500,00C1. ?—(Loud cheers.) I strike off 500,0001., and I have got 1,400,0001.—n0t in hand—(A laugh)—but the reverse • and I add this 500,0001. and 1,400,0001. together, and the suns is 1,900,0001., for which the .late Chancellor of the Exchequer was to make provision by the laying on of new taxes, or a vote of credit.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") Now then comes the duty upon corn. We were to raise a duty upon corn to amount to 400,0001., as it appeared in that Budget. But, in order to justifythe calculations of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the duty raised from corn must have amounted to 1,500,000/, from corn alone. (Here some observation was made in an inaudible tone by Lord John Russell.) I beg the Noble Lord's pardon —it may be that lam making a mistake—l am speaking froM my recollection of former debates, rather than from any attention which I have paid to the subject of late. But if I recollect right, the Chancellor of the Exchequer said, •‘ I will estimate the produce of the Customs in 1841 to be equivalent to the produce of the Custonis in 1840." Now a portion of the Custom duty of 1840 was 1,100,0001. raised from corn; and consequently that 1,100,000/ must be added to the 4,000,0001. for which the Right Hon. Gentleman took credit in.his Budget ; because, if there was any deficiency from the 1,100,0001. which was raised from corn in 1840, there would probably have: been a corresponding reduction in the Custom duty of 1841; consequently unless you could raise 1,500,000 from corn in 1841, the deficit, as I think I have already, clearly shown, must have amounted to 1,500,00-(llear, hear.) And however cordial the co-operation iVhich the Noble Lord may receive from those who sit he.hind'him, yet, stating what they do with respect to the bread tax, and the injustice of subjecting to a heavy ‘ duty that which is the subsistence of the people—(Hear,:hear) . can they hear with cordial satisfaction that a part of the Budget was to levy 1,800,0001. upon corn? And, although I know it is utterly impossible to expect their concur rence—although I know they will say that the prosperity of trade, and the regularity of commercial transactions is promoted by a fixed duty on corn ; yet, if I could meet them privately, and ask them which on the whole they would prefer when corn was at 735., a duty of Is. upon its importation, or a fixed duty of Bs., if they could divest themselves of their political character consistently with their views, they must make the choice of the is. duty.— (Hear, hear.) Now, with respect to the deficit of 1,500,00C1. Short as has been the time for considering the subject, I doubt whether that 1,500,000/., supposing the present amount of revenue to continue, is, in point of fact, the whole deficit upon which we may calculate ; and I am bound to say to the Noble Lord that I think the prospect of future years far from satisfactory. The Chancellor of. the Exchequer has struck out of the estimate for future years the expenditure which in the present year has been applied to China , z and the Chan cellor of the Exchequer said that he thought they could not be called upon to provide anything like the sum he had stated for future years. Are these anticipations likely to be realised ? I say nothing whatever of the policy of the operations in China, but I do ask if it is not probable that the demand which will be made on us in future years for the service of the present, on account of the Chinese operations, will far exceed the sum of 400,0001. But this is the estimate of the expense of the Chinese operations :—" China ; estimate of the sum re puired to be voted for the year 1841, on account of the expenses of the expedition in China. The expenses al ready incurred, appear by the last returns presented to Parliament, to have amounted, so far as they can be esti mated, to 625,293/." This paper is dated 28th May, 1841, and the period to which it referred was long ante cedent. I will venture to say that this expense of 625,293/. had been incurred in October, 1840. And now you have to provide for the expense that has been incurred in October, 1840. And what are your means of judging of the amount of that expense ? This is all the informa tion we have upon the subject—" No account has been received from which an accurate estimate can be formed." —(Hear, hear, and laughter from the Ministerial benches.) But Ido read in the Newspapers some state ments respecting the probable expenses of the Chinese expedition. There is a letter from Captain Senhouse of her Majesty's Navy, addressed to Mrs. Noble, and dated the 10th March, 1841, in which he stated, that " fur eight mouths we have been exercising unparalleled for bearance and kindness to the Chinese, thereby incurring. an t..xpense of probably the full amount of the remune ration we are seeking for." It appears, then, that a great additional expense must be incurred. I. do not, I repeat, say a word as to the policy of the expedition ; I am speaking of the question merely as one of finance. I am not saying anything of the subject politically, but I wish to state my opinion that no prudent Chancellor of the Exchequer, calculating the future expenses of the country, would omit from his consideration the probable demand on account of the Chinese operations.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord has made a speech calculated not to make a favourable impression as to my position, and likely to add to the difficulties which must encompass any man now occupy ing office—(Hear, Naar)—but I do not hesitate to tell the Noble Lord that I look with alarm to the growing tendency to an increased expenditure in our colonial pos sessions. I have here before me a paper which declares the necessity of taking a comprehensive view of the civil expenses to be incurred in the Island of Hongkong. Well, then, here he wants 9,0001. for the present year, but he hopes the Government will see the necessity of large and comprehensive views on the foundation of the new colony. But I come to New South Wales, and I beg the House to remember that this is the position in which I find afThirs.—(Cheers.) This is the position in which I am called upon to estimate expenditure and make provision to meet it. As to New South Wales, I have read a despatch dated in January, 1841, from Sir Geo. Gipps, in which he stated that he had issued a great number of bounty warrants—no less than to 71,315 emi grants, the estimate for which amounts to—what do you think ? Why, to no less than 970,563L—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord contemplated such a state of things with great alarm, and most justly rebuked the Governor for such profuseness. ' The Governor said they were in New South Wales involved in great commercial difficulty and embarrassment, but in that they were like the Bri tish nation. Bat It will not here be held that the greater the embarrassment the greater ought to be the expen diture. The Noble Lord had most wisely put an end to the system; but, do what we will, a sum of not less than 560,000/. will be left to be provided for in some way or another. Let us collie now to South Australia. But I must hold the Government responsible for employing instruments who would dare to incur such profuse lia bilities. But these are items which tve must provide far — we must consider—have I not a just right, therefore, to demand time for their consideration t----(Cheers.) As to South Australia, Sheik was the desperate condition of that colony, that even last year we voted 155,000!. for extricating it from difficulty, and since the Noble Lord quitted office bills to the amount of 14,000 f have been presented and protested by the British Treasury; and from the dates, I feel convinced that more are now on the way home, and they also will be protested, but I much feat that we will be obliged to pay both the bills and the expense of the protest. I now come to Naw Zealand, and it appears that bills to the amount of 33,000!. have been drawn by the Bank of New Zealand upon New South WitleS.---(" Hete s " and a laugh) , Don't flatter yourselves that this is all, for there is an Indica tion that there are bills to the amount of 54,000 h addi tional oh their way.—(llear, hear.) Now I tome to Canada, for which the estimate of last year was 6,d001, but since the Budget was .brought forward the credit of this country has been goaranteed for it loan to Canada to the amount 0f1,500,000/. I am not questioning the pelicy of that step, but here is a naw engagement which this country has contracted. You have, in addition, guaran teed an expenditure of 1900001, a-year for fortifications. —(Lord J. Russell made a remark aft*, the table.) I was not aware that that had been set 'side, but giving the Noble Lord credit fer the vigilance with which he has acted, you r;,es 0; 1 1 consider my position, and say . wnotner lam not 3ustiftea in the great apprehension I have expressedwith regard to the growing expense of our colonial establishments, and which will ultimately fall upon this c ountry? . — . (#ear, hear.) I appeal to any man, whatever his political opinions may be, whether I have not 'already preferred an almost conclusive claim to being permitted to review all those matters? Still the separate Nobleord without sn'snle should not permit Parliament to would it not be moree de fi s t: r a a n o c ; i:l measures; but I ask him, opportunity of settling our affairs with the UniQtehda;teataene, if settled they . can be? The House must be aware that commercial tre2. t .le s are pending with Naples, :with Texas, with Portugal, with the Brazils, and above all with France. I say nothing of the policy of that treaty, but it was under consideration, and was suspended in consequence of the quadruple treaty of July. It is reasonable, it is necessary, that we should understand the views of France—that we should understand the view on the subject of the com mercial treaty with that country. That treaty proposes the introduction of French brandy at a reduced taxa tion. Now, would not such a measure effect the impor tation of colonial rum, of wine and other articles of that nature? Would it be fit, would it be right, to settle a question of that nature till you have first decided what your commercial relations with that country are to be? Is not the demand I make for time to consider these things, a demand founded, not upon personal con siderations, but on considerations of the public good? If these things are to be undertaken, they should be brought to a close at the time when they are undertaken, and tuey should not• be proposed by a responsible Government without having it allowed some time for the purpose of considering such comprehensive questions. Sir, the Noble Lord has spoken in a just, frank, and handsome manner, with respect to the course I pursued in advising the Crown as to the constitution of the Government. Let me, however, remind the Noble Lord of the confidence of the predictions with respect to the course which I might take. Was I not told, night after night, that in the formation of a Government I should be the reluctant and degraded instrument of those men who were ready to offer every insult to their Roman Catholic fellow countrymen—that would hoist the standard of ascendancy, and that would demand from me complete and servile acquiesence? That was said to be the' inevitable consequence of my accession to power. Well, the moment for the verifying of those predictions has passed, and the Noble Lord has admitted that over that difficulty at least I have triumphed, and that I have constituted a Government in a manner that has satisfac torily shown that the affairs of the country shall be di rected with impartiality. Sir, I make no concessions for the purpose of purchasing support. I intend to admi nister the law with firmness—l hope with vigour. I will not permit the administration. of Irish affairs to be influenced by conciliating support in the House of Corn mons.—(Ministerial cheers.) I do say this after the compliment which the Noble Lord has paid me. I have a right to say that the engagements into which I have entered with regard to the administration of impartial justice shall, as far as they depend on me, be fulfilled. The appointment of my Noble Friend, Lord de Grey, who with just reluctance, Nvas induced to undertake the im portant functionS which wean him from occupations and enjoyments the most refined and honourable, and credit able to man—the appointment of my Noble Friend Lord Eliot—the appointment of my Hon. and Learned Friend, Sir Edward Sugden, to the Chancellorship those appointments do, I say, give guarantee, strong as it could be given, of my determination to adhere to strict impartiality—my Right Hon. Friend, the Lord Chancellor of Ireland, felt himself under obligation, as he was in the receipt of a pension for the Chancellorship —a pension honourably acquired by him, after a sacri fice of professional emolument, but for a short discharge of public official duty—my Right Hon. Friend felt it to be his duty at once to resume his present position. But I do not hesitate to say, that if circumstances occurred to prevent his assumption of office, I would have selected from the Irish bar a Chancellor—l would have paid that compliment to a portion of the profession, which stands as high as any other portion of it in the empire. With regard to what has been said of the impossibility of my performing my public duty, with respect to other matters—with respect to the domestic policy of this country—l can. assure the Noble Lord it is my intention to act upon a sense of public duty, and to propose those measures which my own convictions of the public interest shall make me desirous to carry. It is right that there should be a distinct understanding as to the terms on which a public man holds his place. The force of circumstances and a sense of public duty have compelled me to un dertake the harrassing and laborious office which I now fill. What would be any inducement to me to make the sacrifices which it demands ? What can be an in ducement but the hope of rendering service to my coun try and of acquiring honourable fame ? (Ministerial cheers.) Would Igo through the labour which it im poses if I could not claim for myself the -liberty of pro posing to Parliament those measures which I shall be lieve it my duty to propound ? Ido with confidence assure those who hear me that no consideration of mere political associations should induce me to hold such an office as I now fill by servile tenure which should compel me to be the instrument of carrying men's opi nions into effect.—(Hear, hear.) I do not estimate lightly the distinction which it confers. It is only valuable—not from the patronage which it enables me to sustain—not from personal distinc tion—but it is only valuable to any man fit for holding it for an hour from the opportunity which it gives him of serving his country. Therefore I feel that every man confers an obligation on me who places me in this office ; but at the same time I reserve to myself the power of giving up its onerous duties the moment I feel I cannot discharge them with satisfaction to the country and to myself. Lord PALMERSTON said, whether the Right Hon. Baronet had reasons for abstaining from malting that ex position of his views which his (Lord Palmerston's) Noble Friend thought he' ought to make before Parlia ment separate& and whether the reasons which he had given were satisfactory to himself and to Hon. MeMbers who sat behind him, he'(Lord Palmerston) could .not tell, but he would take leave to say that, having listened with great attention to all that had fallen from the Right Hon. Baronet, be did not think that the reasons he had assigned would be held to be satisfactory by the country at large.—(Opposition cheers.) The Right Hon. Ba ronet had challenged his NobleTriend to take the sense of the House upon the opinions on which that side or the other side might differ. They knew well, from the results of the last elections, what the decision Of the House upon a question of that kind would be. However the Hon. Baronet might plume himself on the majority by which he was now supported, he would tell him to refrain from reposing unlimited confidence in that support, because he should recollect that there was a country as well as a House of Commons.—(Ministerial cheers and counter Opposition cheers.) Let him not too confidently rely upon the opinioa of that majority by which he was supported, although technically he was en titled to represent it as the opinion of the country. Un doubtedly -it was not with reference to our foreign rela tions that his Noble Friend had said that the Right Hon. Baronet ought to keep the Parliament sitting fur a longer period at present, or call it together again at an early period. It was not on that ground his Noble Friend rested his observations. The first point on which he thought some communications of its inten tions from a new Government were due to the country, was with regard to the Corn-laws. I must say that I think the reply of the Right Hon. Baronet on that subject was any thing but satisfactory. The Right Hon. Baronet said that he had been out of office ten years, but he had not been out of the country—he had not been out of active occupation of public affairs—he had not been out of that House—he knew what had been passing in the country—he had given his attention to the state of public affairs, and if any man was compe tent to form an opinion on the interests of the country, especially on that particular question, he (Lord Palmer ston) said that the Right Hon. Baronet, from his attain ments, his habits, and his pursuits, was the man who was competent to do so. But then the Right Hon. Baronet said, that if he was to be reproached with not being ready with an opinion on the Corn-laws, to what re proach was the last Government exposed, which remained three years in office without having passed a measure on that subject.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Why really that argument lie (Lord Palmerston) was rather surprised the Right Hon. Baronet would condescend to'use because it would be open to every man, when any great measure was proposed, to say, " Why, you areto blame for not proposing that measure sooner." Why, with respect to every measure of importance, there were certain circumstances that led to the proposing of them, and it was not a matter of reproach of those persons who proposed them.-. that they did not bring them forward at an earlier period than the one at which they chose to do so. However, those with whom he (Lord Palmerston) acted in concert had proposed that measure. When they proposed it before it might be said that the question had not been laid before the public, that the parties whom it interested had not hem called on to look at it with a view to their own concerns ; but in the pre sent instance the question had been brought before the public. The discussion of it had been defeated, how ever, by the proceedings of the last Parliament, and therefore the Bight Hon. Baronet did not stand, with re gard to the Corn-laws, in .the position which the last Government stood with regard to that question. He (Lord Palmerston) must now take that opportunity of saying, that the Right lion. Baronet might have ab stained from giving his authority to the frequently con tradicted misrepresentations of what had fallen from Lord Melbourne in the other House of Parliament. The Right Hon. Baronet had given his sanction to the stu diously circulated misrepresentations of that Noble Lord's words. Sir ROBERT PEEL, in a low tone of voice, made some observations across the table. We understood the Right Hon.,,Baronet to disclaim what the Noble Lord (Lord Palmerston) had attributed to him relative to his remarks on Lord Melbourne's words. Lord PALMERSTON went onto say that he under stood the Right Hon. Baronet to allude to the opi nions of Lord Melbourne on the Corn-laws. The flight Hon. Baronet said he wondered the colleagues of Lord Melbourne would remain in office with him, as that Noble Lord disagreed with them on the measures they proposed. Now, any one who would look to that book which was so often in the hands of Gentlemen Op posite, The Mirror of Parliament, would see what Lord Melbourne had said. That Noble Lord repudiated any measure which would tend to deprive the a gricultural interest of all protection, but he was by no ,meansvich pre pared to say that circumstances might not a l ri e sLs existing would induce him to approve of a changein tthi Corn-laws. The Right Hon. Baronet said t n) not mean to say what he (Lord Pahnteorsanoy change in to him. It was not with regard d a a t t tr h ib e ut d e i d d that opinion—it was withd t re- The Right Hon. the Corn-law which made Lora:ar/sdlelbtoournae express which would abolish all Corn-laws he was prepared'e t-chenge until he could do it Baronet gave them to undettouaii:Criotphoaste,a hcultiatnhgaet hein trhee frained from proposing.t at who were the constitution of that . o • composed—looking at the head of a united (...r.lren.nn-ilellto.t:cociwi;,glovvo,king - seeing e s l i d , as p o o ffi s .c e e d— i_n l_ otring at the which Members highof the Cabinet—if the Govern ment, but were not ntlpieilineisnboet.rsthoofswe Eight Hon. Baronet said that he was to wait before proposing his intended change in .the Corn-laws till he EVENING SU N was at the head of a united Government, he (Lord Pal- . _ merston) would venture to predict that he would re quire not the five months during which Parliament would be prorogued, but, five years.—(Hear, hear.) But he (leerd Palnedston) did not think that the him Considering toi t n o the w Ivant of lei sure steed pwenented the Right Hon. Baronet Prot;: now—this w b i leese eek g .i.s Noble Friend did not urge or 2ext week — but his Noble Friend'ohjected justly that this ei nestion, having been broached since the spring of the y e ar, top heads of . the new Government had ample time to form an nyinion on the subject, and Parliament should not now be croe rogued till the beginning of February next, leaving the whole country in aeeate of uncertainty, not as to whit Government intended to propose, but whether they would propose any.change at all. As to himself (Lord P.) and those lately in power, they had been performing most disagreeable offices, and nothing could be more pleasing than a prolongation of relaxation from business at the present time, but when a question was to be con sidered which involved the interests of a great portion of the community, the Right Hon. Baronet was not justified in the course he intended to adopt. But the Eight Hen. Baronet said they expected him to state his views, and asked, would even they themselves now sta=nd by the mea sures which they proposed? He (Lord Palmerston) re plied, undoubtedly they would. The Right Hon. Baronet said if by bad weather the price ,of corn had risen to 80s. or 905., would they dare to propose their fixed duty of Bs. ? The Right lion. Baronet talked of the price rising high in this country ; if he assumed that the price had risen very high in the countries from which the corn was to come, then, indeed, he might say that the increased price and expense of importing it would be too great to admit of bringing it into the coun try. But it was here that the price rose. The constant flow ing of a supply of corn under a fixed duty would prevent those fluctuations which were now the cause of great suffering to the people, and an injury to the interests of the country. He did say that they would stand by their budget, and they had a right to know the measures which Hon. Gentlemen opposite would stand by. What ever might be the weight of the assertions of the Right Hon. Baronet as to his having little leisure for those con siderations during the few days in which he was engaged in forming a Government, when he (Lord P.) saw that Government, he could well understand the trouble of forming it. He was not in the least disposed to un derrate it, but he maintained that Parliament ought not to be sent to the right about till February next, leaving the country in total ignorance whether they were to leave the Corn-law as it was, or whether they meant to modify the sliding scale, or whether they were for a system of fixed duty, and intended to propose that to Parliament. That was the opinion which they maintained, and they would not oblige Hon. Gentlemen by giving. them .an opportunity of counting cn that question theill great majority. Still he thought the country woul d be of opinion that both the agricultural and the manufacturing interests should be informed as to the intentions of Go vernment ; and all parties should feel that now the country should not let the Parliament separate for so long a period without coining to any decision.—(Hear.) Well, then, the Right Hon. Baronet said that proposal was made to show how little • they had considered the question ; that in the budget, for instance, the Chan cellor of the Exchequer was wrong even on his own showing. And, first, with regard to timber. The Right Hon. Baronet stated that even according to the calcula tion of the late Chancellor of the Exchequer, the change in the timber duty would not produce the amount calcu lated. And why ? What proof did lie propose ? Any thing stated by his (Lord P's.,) Right Hon. Friend ? No thing. Anything stated by the budget ? Nothing ; but an opinion of the Governor-General of Canada and a Report of the House of Commons. — (Hear, hear.) Why, the simple answer to that was, that whatever weight was justly due to that opinion or recommendation that was not the measure the late. Government had proposed to Parliament, and therefore that elaborate argument fell entirely to the ground, because it rested not upon the late Government 'a pro posal, but on an opinion of Lord Sydenham, and a re commendation of a Committee of the House of Corn mons.—(Cheers.) The same with regard to sugar, The Right. Hon. Baronet said that they (the late .Go vernment) had reckoned that so much foreign sugar would be imported to pay the higher duty, but he said the quantity of British sugar so greatly exceeded the calculation, that the price had fallen considerably, and therefore foreign sugar at a higher duty would not meet with the demand necessary to produce the anionnt of duty expected. This, again, was a fallacy. The late Chancellor of the Exchequer had made his calcula tions either way. He had said, "If the supply of Bri tish sugar continued small, and the price therefore high, then I get the duty I want by the duty on the foreign sugar that comes in; if, on the contrary, there is an unexpected increase in the supply of English sugar, then that increased supply ivill give an increased pro duction of duty at the rate of 245., and in that way I get the supply I want. If the consumption in 18 41 equals the consumption in 1831, then I get the amount I want at the 245. duty, and anything made on foreign sugar brought in ;hill be so much gained in addition to thatl wan t."—(liear, hear.) Then the Right Hon. Baronet stated that not Only therefore was our budget deficient with regard to the amount the late Government reckoned on getting—with regard to which he (Lord Palmerston) had shown that his argument was fallacious—but he . stated that he found, on looking through the depilate ments . of the Government, that the expenses of the country greatly exceeded what had been stated—that now demands were daily coming in, and he (Sir Robert: Peel) said, " Can anything be more unreasonable than to expect me to state any financial views before I know what these additional expenses are?" His Noble Friend (Lord John Russell) had not asked the Right Hon. Baronet to in ske a financial-state ment then.—(ll - ear. hear.) He had stated so distinctly- He said certainly that the Right Hon. Baronet should state his opinion as to the measures the late Government had proposed, since they were measures not merely of finance, but affecting the general interests of the country. But the representations tne Right Hon. Baronet made of those unexpected demands was not altogether so great as was required for the justification lie was making. They were told, with regard to China, that the expenses much exceeded the 400,00 e/ stated in the estimate ; but the Right Hon. Baronet also stated that the excess would not be called for till the year 1842, and therefore would not be added to the deficiency of the present year.—(Hear,. hear.) The Right Honourable Baronet said that no accounts had been received on which a detailed estimate . could be framed. He must know the reason was, that. the expense of the expedition was defrayed by the East India Company, and that it was only when the Com pany's accounts were made out, that he could state what their claim was, and therefore the operation was not so simple as if the bills were drawn on the Treasury in the first instance. " But then," said the Right Hon. Baronet, " I have authority which enables me to form an opinion, and that is a letter from the Captain of a man-of-war to , a Mr. Noble, who was taken prisoner by the Chinese.' And that letter, written in the style in which all corre spondence between friends on such occasions was written, was offered to the House of Commons by the Right Honourable Baronet as a ground on which finan cial calculations were to be made.—(Hear, and cheers.) Then they were told that they came to something tan gible, for Captain Senhouse said that they were going on at such a rate, and • spending his money so extrava gantly, that they actually proposed to make a main road the whole extent of the Island of Hong-Kong.--(Laugh ter.) He (Lord Palmerston) did not know the extent of that island; whether it was five miles or seven miles, he was not prepared to say ; but if the Government had no other unexpected deficiency to provide for, he thought they would not find much difficulty in getting out of the embarrassment—(Hear.) He then came to Australia, respecting which the Right Hon. Baronet stated that enormous expenditure had been contemplated by the Governor-General. But what did his Noble - Feiend (Lord John Russell) ? The moment he heard of it, he stopped it.—(" No," from Sir Robert Peel.) He could not stop it all, but he stopped all that he could. Then, said the Right Hon. Baronet, 500,0001. must still be provided for by the country. He (Lord Palmerston) was satisfied that if not all, at least 300,000/. would be provided for by the colony ; but if 200,000/. should be chargeable on the country that would be the outside, but he had reason to hope that no such claim would be made. The Right Hon. Baronet then stated that the bills drawn in New Zealand were expected to amount to 100,0001., whereas the late Government had estimated them only at 6,000/. Why, the Right Hon. Baronet knew full well that an excess of expenditure the estimated amount, was liable to happen within certain limits at all times, in all years ; and if the Right Honourable Baronet postponed the stat.ee ment of his financial views until b e got al ale colonies in such a state of order that CO Goverr un ' . of the most remote island could draw more bills thanwaist was authorised to draw, he (Lord Palmereton beyond even a longer period than to February next.s would have afraid the House of Commons might be prortubeederfsb.r) He thought, therefore, all those reasons been their riend had been insufficient, if the charge of his Noble' been that the Government had not tohtentbep objection of financial measures ; but that was had thought it derations. He (Lord John Russell) which turned was incumbent on the Government tque stions--(Cheers)-__ his Noble Friend. It had referencen to greater consi him out on those gre n n ew they had a majority now they were in power — principles whether or not they in into practice—to say system —(Hear, 0 stand to pursue the samecourse the while in power which would enable ttelinie_m d out of power, to refuse all relaxation they had pursue . of our commercial ses riction an monopoly.—(Chers. on the principles Baron et - 'd sai that that was met g e lling The Right Hon. at w hi c h those matt ers could be properly settl e d .by the Governme nt. He (Lord Palmerston) admitted that tiSea' had not had leisure for many things, but he did not ad mit that, with regard to the Corn-question, any new light could be thrown upon it by ransacking the archives of the Board of Trade, or the Foreign-office—(Heei)—because all the information that was desirable had long been be fore the people ; and if any man could not make up his mind on that infhrmation, he thought he might read himself blind, or spend his life at it, yet not arrive one moment sooner at a satisfactory conclusion.—(Loud cheering.) But the Right Honourable Baronet stated there were great public reasons which rendered it impossible to state the views of the Government on those questions—that, many commercial negotiations were Rending with foreign nations—that there were negotia tions with France about a tariff—that a commercial treaty was pending between England and Portugal—that a commercial treaty had been proposed with Texas, and that it was possible commercial negotiations might be opened with the United States of America and with the Brazils. All these things were true, but that made for his (Lord Palmerston's) argument and not for the argu ment of the Right Hon. Baronet.—(Hear, hear.) The more countries with whom we had unsettled negotie tions relating to commercial intercourse the more exp t client was it to proceed without loss of time to renew) the fettere that incumbered the industry of tS country. — (Cries of "Hear, hear.") Indeed, the matters were not fit subjects for negotiation. Shou I