The Sun. — London, England, 1841-09-22 00:00:00

MORNING SUN IMPERIAL PARL AME-Nif:- HOUSE OF COMMONS, ,Fept. 21. .The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hour. The Earl of LINCOLN for North Nottingham, and Mr. ET:WIELD for Bradford, took the oaths and their seats. A Messenger from the Treasury brought up a corre spondence relative to the immigration of Hill Coolies in the. West Indies. f. Mr. OrREENA.LI . presented a petition from Wigan, Praying th e H ouse to adopt measures to prevent the secretion- of the Sabbath. Mr. P. M. STEWART presented a petition from Paisley, praying th e H ouse not to d i sperse without hay ing previously taken the existing distress in the country into their serious consideration. The Hon. Member gave notice that he should call the attention of the House to the subject to-morrow, on the motion for going into Committee of Supply. Sir W. CLAY presented a petition from the Protes tant Dissenters of Hackney against the Corn-laws. Mr. WAKLEY presented a petition from Patcham in Sussex, praying for the repeal of the Poor-law Amendment Act. ELECTION PETITIONS. The SPEAKER, after having announced to the House that the sureties for the prosecution of the petitions con- Plaiting of undue returns for the County of Flint, the County of Cork, the County of Kerry, the County of Louth, and the Borough of Kinsale, had been reported to be unobjectionable, said, that he would take that op t. Portunity of calling the attention of the House to the re , gulations respecting , the appointment of Election Corn znittees. On the Bth of this month he had laid on the table his warrant nominating six gentlemen to serve on Election Committees. That warrant had now been on the table for three days, during which the House had sat fbr the despatch of business without any objection having been made to it, and consequently, according to the provisions of the Act of Parliament, his choice had been confirmed by the. House. Under ordinary circumstances he should have appointed an early day for the meeting of the Committee, in order that the gentlemen so nominated might Proceed to the discharge of their duties ; but under standing that it was the intention of the House to post- Pelee the consideration of the election petitions until after Christmas, he thought he should be best consulting the convenience of the House and of the gentlemen no , , I *Steci to serve if he were to postpone their first meet i ng until that day month ; and, with the permission of the House, he would fix that day month for their first meeting accordingly. NOTICES OF MOTION. Sir C. NAPIER gave notice that he would move next Session that an humble address be presented to her Majesty, praying she would be pleased to give directions that a naval officer be placed over the Navy as officers were placed over the Army and Ordnance; lawyers over the Law Department, and churchman over the Church. Mr. P. M. STEWART gave notice that before the House going into a Committee of Supply be would move that the distresses of the country should be taken into consideration. Sir F. POLLOCK gave notice that he would move for a Committee of the whole House, for the purpose of granting an annuity to any Vice-Chancellor who might be obliged to vacate his seat in consequence of an Act passed during the present Session. Dr. BOWEING gave notice that, in consequence of an objection on the part of the Vice-President of the Board of Trade to the former part of the motion of which he had given notice, he would move that an humble address be presented to her Majesty, praying that she woulil be pleased to direct that a return be made of the amount of taxes levied directly on land in the dif ferent States of Europe, as far as the same could be ob tained; and also for the rates or amount of the monies and measures of the different States in British monies and measures. Also for a return of the proportion of direct taxation on land to the value or rental of the land in various countries. Sir G. CLERK moved for the several sums under the 4th and sth of Victoria, forming the Navy, Army, and Ordnance for 1841 and 1842 ; also for a supply to meet the sums and deficiencies granted to discharge the out standing Exchequer Bills. Sir T. WILI)E wished to know from the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) what he intended to do with re spect to the motion of which he had given notice ? Sir R. PEEL said, that he certainly considered the acceptance of office by the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor for Ireland was a bona fide one, but whether that constituted a vacation of his duty as a Member of Parliament he would not discuss on the present occa sion. However, he was of opinion, under the cir cumstances, that he would be acting in- conformity with the usages of the House if he conceded to the motion, rather than opposed it. He did not know how the ques tion of law stood, but he would, he thought, be best con sulting the interests of the House by not opposing the Ilon. and Learned Member in moving for a writ, but he . would not do so himself. Sir T. WILDE said, he thought the principle on which his . Right Honourable Friend was proceeding was the result of a hasty impression. He thought the principle laid down by the Right Honourable Baronet was preg nant with danger. It had been decided since the statutes of Anne that any person having ac cepted an emolumentary situation should vacate his seat. If the Crown were to give a promise of an office which was held in terrorem over a Member whilst he bad a seat in that House, it would be fraught with the most mis chievous consequences. He begged leave to move, therefore, that a writ be issued for the election of a Member to serve in Parliament for the borough of Ripon. Sir R. PEEL said his writ was not issued until his patent was in his hand. Sir J. GRAHAM said that his writ did not issue • until he had kissed hands. Sir T. WILDE—A very agreeable ceremony, but amounting to nothing. If_r. C. WOOD said the last case which occurred, came before the House about a year and a half ago. It was that of Mr. Wynn. The doctrine laid down by the Right Hon. Baronet was clearly and distinctly at variance with the decision of the Committee in that case. In the case of Mr. Wynn, when the Com mittee• refused to issue the writ, there was no pretension whatever for saying that any in strument had been prepared or issued until long after the election. If the view taken by the Right Hon. Gentleman yesterday, that the seat was not vacated till the completion of the formal instrument was correct, it was quite clear that the Hon. Member might have taken his seat, as in the case of Mr. Wynn ; but Mr. Wynn stated distinctly, that he considered his appoint ment to date from the receipt of a letter from the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the purport of which was that the appointment should be made forthwith. But nothing was done upon that. No formal instrument was in couse of preparation until the• month of September, some time after the election took place. In that case Mr. Wynn had not accepted the office subsequent to his election. He was merely anxious that some step should be taken in order to determine what did or what did not constitute such an acceptance of office, because if the Right Hon. Member for Itipon was correct in what he advanced yes terday, a man might sit for months after his acceptance of office, and of course would be subject to all the influ ence of the Crown, whatever it might be. Sir ROBERT PEEL did;,net concur in the opinion expressed by the Right Hon. Member for Ripon yesterday, that the completion of': the patent was BE cessary before a new writ was moved for.. He would have no objection that there should be an under standing that when an office was tendered to any party in writing, and was accepted by him al so i n wr i t i ng, i t should be considered such an acceptance of office as would vacate a seat in Parliament. He thought there ought to be some record of the transaction, and that it should not rest upon mere conversation. In Mr. Horsman's case there was no doubt that he had written to his constituents that the office had been offered to him in such a manner that he had no hesitation in ac cepting it ; yet lie voted after the date of that letter, and the House bad not thought proper to interfere. He acceded to the motion for the issuing of the writ in the present instance, as the instruments were so far advanced as to constitute an acceptance of office. Lord JOHN RUSSELL doubted whether it would be proper to come to such an understanding as that a writing should be necessary to constitute an ac ceptance of office. The Right Honourable Baronet the Member for Dorchester, and others filling higll offices, of course kissed hands upon their acceptance of office, but the minor officers of the Government were not introduced to her Majesty—they were merely informed by the Right Hon. Gentleman, that her Ma jesty had been pleased to appoint them to the Board of Trade, or the Admiralty, or otherwise, as the case might be. Generally speaking, there ,` k 4 N t . ..vitore no writings connected with such appointments. However, as the motion was unopposed, it was unneces sary to prolong that discussion. • The motion for the issuing of the writ was then _ 4 . ‘ : , - agreed to. THE PROROGATION. Mr. VILLIERS begged to ask the Right Hon. Gentleman a questior, an answer to which would be for th e conven i ence not only of Honoura bl e Members but of the country. He wished to know what would be the probable duration of the prorogation whenever it took place ? His reason for asking was. because a gentleman who sat on the benches tehind the Right Hon. Baronet was reported to have said that nothing- which had fal!en from the Right Hon. idart. con'Al lead Them to suppose it would be till February. Sir R. PEEL really had had no confidential commu nication with the ton.: Member to whom allusion had ~,,ueen made , and he did not even kn ow t o w h om t h e '` i cal. Member for Wolverhampton alluded. Mr. VILLIERS—I mean the Hon. Member for ' in ahary.—(Roars of laughter.) •-•% Sir R. PEEL could as sure th e Ri g ht Hon. Member th, at he had hid no communication with the Hon. Mem .' ° et' on the subject.—(A laugh.) The Hon. Member mast see that it was impossible for him to state to what ;;:, • Pt'oeise period Parliament would be prorogued. Mr. VILLIERS did not refer to any communication kade by the Right Honourable Baronet to the • • honourable Member for. Finsbury. What he referred Pit° was an observation of the Honourable Member for nsbury, who had sa id t h at not hi ng h a d f a ll en f rom to Right Honou ra bl e B arone t t o l ea d any b o d y gaPpose that the next meeting of Parliament would be so late as February. He had, therefore, put the ques tion to the Right Hon. Baronet, having been requested to do so in order that any doubt on the subject might be si r R. PEEL had never heard any question of that liatue e put, -%.before—(Loud cri es o f " Hear, hear") — and the Hon. Member would see that it was one to which it was imp055:.:1 4 ' he could give an answer. The PPriod of the m eeting of par. Atuent would depend upon fores ee impossible. t pres ent i t -S Mr. VILLIERS believed the Rig ht had Ri Hon. Bart. said that if no extraordinary circum stances had occ urred, 1: the ordinary period for 'the would be the one to which it would be gproorogPuaed.lamle'llnet THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAYBER 22, 1841. .House might, therefore, infer that would be prorogued until next February.—(Cries of " Order.") PRIVATE BILLS COMMITTEES, Mr. EWART __then rose to move the following resolutions, of which he had given notice :- 1. That it is expedient that Committees on Private Bills should be approximated, more nearly than they now are, to judicial tribunals, and exempted, as much as pos sible, from all motives of local and personal interest. And that the responsibility and efficiency of such Com mittees would be promoted by diminishing the number of Members composing them. "2. That, with a view of attaining these objects, the number of Members composing Committees on opposed Private Bills be reduced to seven. "3. That such seven Members be appointed by the Com mittee of Selection, after the second reading of such Bills. But that previous to such appointment, the ,Committee of Selection do ascertain from each of such seven Members that he is willing to serve, and that he is, neither through his constituents nor himself, personally interested for or against the Bill in question ; and that, in case he is unable to serve, or is interested as aforesaid, the Committee of Selection do appoint some other Mem ber to serve in place of him. " 4. That the Committee of Selection appoint no Member to serve on more than one such Private Bill Committee at a time." He believed that great ignorance prevailed with re gard to the transacting of busines by Committees on Private Bills. He believed the Right Honourable Baronet opposite had had many opportunities of see ing the baneful working of the present system of Private Committees ; and he appealed to him whe ther reform was not to be desired in their ma chinery and construction. In the first place, these Com mittees were appointed ptincipally from the local con nection with the subject, and therefore it was impossible that they could be altogether impartial, being in terested either through themselves or their constituents. The system of canvassing that went on during the sitting of a Committee, was at variance with the justice of the case under the consideration of the Com mittee, and it was discreditable to the character of the House. The Committees of the House of Commons were not only partial tribunals, but, from their size, inconvenient for accomplishing the ends of justice. They ought to be purified, and dimi nished in point of numbers. The remedies which he ventured to suggest, were, in the first place, to propose that Committees should be more nearly assimilated to judicial tribunals. How was that to be effected ? By removing as far as possible all motives of partiality. His next desire was to increase the re sponsibility and efficiency of Committees. A body of thirty-five Members had a much more divided responsi bility than a body consisting only of seven Members. He proposed, therefore, to increase their responsibility by reducing the number from thirty-eight to seven. The House of Lords had reduced their Committees from an al most unlimited number to five, and prohibited any Member, directly or indirectly interested, from sitting. In the year 1838, the Duke of Richmond was examined before the House, and his evidence would be found to confirm all that he (Mr. E.) had said. In the same year the present Speaker and the Hon. Member for Lancashire drew up a set of resolutions on the subject, which, having examined, he found to be essentially the same with those he now proposed. Not only were the suggestions he had made founded on reason, but they came be fore them sanctioned by the House of Lords, the Speaker Of the H ouse o f C ommons, and the Chairman of the Committee of Ways and Means. How had those rul es operated in the House of Lords ? Why, it was admitted that they had done great good ; and, with respect to that House, he believed they had rendered its Committees more effective, and their proceedings much more beneficial. The Honourable Member concluded by moving the resolutions of which lie had given notice. The resolutions having beeri read by the Speaker, Mr. EWART suggested that each resolution should be taken into consideration separately. Mr. ESTCOURT thought that the principle laid down by the Hon. Member was good, and he was not disposed to contravert it, but he thought lie had taken a wrong mode of carrying it out. He would not deny—but that he entertained considerable re spect for the opinion which lie knew prevailed, not only amongst many Members of that House, but also very extensively out of doors—that in the constitution of Committees on private Bills, the principle of representa tion ought to have due weight. Committees on private Bills might be considered,under two aspects; first, as judicial tribunals, and, secondly, as inquisitions. They had to inquire as well as to judge. If their functions had been purely judicial he would accede at once to the proposition of the Hon. Gentleman, but where the matters brought be fore them might possibly* lead to .extensive inquiry, it appeared to him that a larger number of Mem bers ought to be appointed than if their functions were purely judicial, more particularly when, in the result of that inquire, the constituents of the Members might be interested. So long as the Committees had been constituted, as formerly, of a very large number of Members, belonging not only to the county inte rested, but to the neighbouring counties ; or so long as the Speaker's list had been very large, he would admit that considerable inconvenience arose from the canvassing of agents, but both those evils had been remedied during the two last Sessions of Parliament. He confessed he thought there was very great weight in the arguments of those Honourable Members who de sired to give that tribunal a representative character. As far, however, as he had been enabled to form an opinion, the amendments of last Session had given general satisfaction. If, after a fair experiment, which could not be afforded in a single Session, the objections urged by the Hon. Member should be found to have gained ground, he would then be prepared to accede to his propositions; but as no discontent ap peared as yet to exist, he thought that was not a fit time for the Honourable Member to press his resolutions. If the same system was preserved in the present as in the last Session of Parliament, and if-Hon. Members would bind themselves to carry the arrangements into effect, he had no doubt that there would be a most satisfactory result—that no party would be disappointed, and no unnecessary expense incurred. Believing the motion was unnecessary and uncalled for, he should take the liberty of moving the previous question. Mr. W. FERRAND would think it his duty to support the resolutions of the Hon. Gentleman opposite. Sir G. CLERK, though admitting there was some weight in the arguments used on the other side, would, however, suggest to the Hon. Gentleman the propriety of withdrawing the resolutions he had proposed, as any alterations in rules which had hitherto worked well, would in all probability, in the present state of the House, when there were so many new Members in it, be attended with considerable inconvenience. Mr. EWART, in reply, said, that if these propositions had been founded only on his own opinions he should at once assent to the recommendation of the Hon. Mem ber for Oxford, but as he found they were approved of by many gentleman of great experience he felt he should not be doing his duty if he did not divide the House. He should therefore do so. Lord J. RUSSELL could not go to the extent of the Hon. Gentleman, though he considered it would be well to exclude as much as possible all personal and local interest. He did not think it quite right that the represen tatives of the people should be altogether excluded from attending to the interests of their constituents' private business, though he thought it would be well if some scheme could be devised giving a more judicial character to the Private Committees. He could not, as at present ad vised, go the length to which some persons did, that the representatives should be altogether excluded, for that, in fact, would be destroying, to a certain extent, the representative character of the House. They had certainly the best means of giving information on the various subjects which came before them to the Com mittee, and all he wished was .that it st.ould have more of a judicial character than the present mode. He could only say, that in voting for the previous question, he did not totally differ from the Hon. Gentleman, and he hoped to see still further improvements. Mr. AGLIONBY begged leave to say a few words on the subject. He was glad the subject had been brought forward, for the House would see the expediency of altering the present system. The represented had a right to the service of the Re presentative to attend the Committee and advocate the interests of his constituents, but he had no right to trans form himself into a Judge. Sir H. PEEL was .sorry that they should be driven to a division. He thought a fair trial should be given to the existing system; yet he had no objec tion that the attention of the country should be called to the present mode of conducting the public business, whereby they would see the great abuses existing in the manner of conducting it. Nothing could tend more to lower the dignity of the House than to see the decisions that had been come to on private Bills. There was a strong impression that Parliamentary in fluence was the only thing necessary to insure success; yet he trusted it would be better to give a fair trial to the system at present in force, and not call on them to make a hasty alteration. He did not think it would be adviseable to take the sense of the House on the subject. The constituency had a right to the services of their Representatives, and they had, theref ore , a duty to perform in attending to private Committees. He bad some experience with respect to railroads. In such cases the representatives of six several counties and towns would, by the proposition of the Honourable Member, have a right to attend to advocate the interests of their constituents. You could not exactly limit the. time during which they should address the Committee. Mr. AGLIONBY—An hour. Sir R. PEEL-4f they appeared in the charbaecterthoatf p b e e r s u o o n u s e eess a representing r ilyeou advocates, the inevitable consequence would l t o h c e a r l e i l u v t o e u r l e d s tsb,ethsautcmh numberuaohtime wo nf uld summed, and the Committee wo uld soon be reduced to a could get a quorum at all. despairing quorum, even if you He feared also, that if local Members were disqualified to giveisqual rise ifiedfrom sitting in Committee, the effect would to those debates in the House which so frequently occurred, p an at d ie w nc h e i . ch were usually listened to wit h so much im- Mr. EWART would have no objection that the whole I p of ri h v i a s t r e e ß so u l s u i t u io es n s s . should That bweoruelfderbreedatoth fair e mode emnoif " Committee b tee m on . t promise, and he trusted it would be acceded o y the Right Hon. Baronet.—(Cries of "No, no.") the prese n t s y s t em s h ou ld h ave a fair trial, which Sir R. PEEL thought it was highly necessaryt h h a a d t not yet been had. Mr. EWART was perfectly aware that the majority must be against him. Under suck circumstances, he would, therefore, not waste the time of the House by forcing a division ; but he would continue to press them i on the attention of the House so long as he had the ho nour of a seat. The amendment and motion were then, by leave, with drawn. Mr. RENNIE then rose to move " That an humble ' 'cress be presented to her Majesty, that she will be —aged to direct her Commissioners of Land graciously p.,. Revenues to take mett., 7 . 're4 iv rendering safer the re creations of bathing in, and 'skating on, the ornamental waters of Hyde Park, St. James's, and the Regen t's Park, by filling up the deep and dangerous places, so as to leave not exceeding four feet depth of water in any of the above-mentioned Parks. When he gave notice of his motion on Thursday last it was re ceived with merriment, but as he was anxious only to put an end to the deplorable sacrifice of life which an nually took place in the Royal Parks, he trusted there was too much humanity in the House to turn the question into laughter. As it involved no interests bat those of hu manity, he'trusted that that indulgence so usually bestow ed on a young Member would not be withheld from him. At a meeting called to consider the propriety of his re solutions, it was resolved that upon a careful consideration of the dangers to whichithe public were exposed, both in the skaitingseason and the bathing season, it was the opinion of the Committee that the suggestions should be adopted. The Hon. Member then referred to a return of the num ber of persons drowned and recovered in the Regent's, Hyde, and St. James's Parks for the year 1835 to the present year, from which it appeared that 35 persons lied been droWned, and 355 persons had been recovered. He would ask",the House if this state of thiugs ought to continue when a remedial measure could be adopted? He would just state that the number of suicides com mitted in Hyde Park during the period referred to, amounted to twenty-one. For that he did not propose any . remedy.—(Loud laughter.) The Royal Humane Society had incurred an expense annually amounting to 3,3371. for the purpose of endeavouring to prevent these disastrous occurrences, but all their exertions had proved inadequate. He thought he had shown this was a mat ter of no very trivial nature, and he would ask Hon. Members if they could consider themselves exonerated, if they refused to adopt remedial measures for the pur pose of saving human life? The Royal Humane Society had stated that they believed the measure he was about to propose was both remedial and practicable. No fatal accident had occurred in the Regent's 1 Park, and this was in consequence of the shallowness of the water. In Hyde Park and St. James's Park, the ornamental waters were in some few places thirteen feet deep, and he proposed to reduce that depth to four feet, so as to make them safe. The materials sufficient to do this would not be more than those required to make a third rate railroad embankment, and he was convinced that if a depot for materials were opened at each end of the lakes, materials sufficient would soon be accumulated, without any expense except that attending the conveying them in boats to those parts of the lake, and of the Ser pentine, where they were to be thrown overboard. The work was practicable, and the expense would be inconsi derable. Although it might interfere in some respect with the adventurous swimmers, it would very much im prove the winter amusements, as it was well known that water would freeze much sooner when it was shallow than when it was very deep. He trusted the Right Hon. Baronet would give the subject his earnest considera tion. The Hon. Member concluded by moving the reso tion of which he had given notice. Mr. EWART seconded the motion. Mr. GOULBURN trusted that the Hon. Gent Wan opposite would not think he (Mr. G.) was inimical to his humane intentions, if he opposed the motion which he had made. He for one did not regret that the motion was made, because it furnished an opportunity of hear ing testimony to the exertions of the Humane Society, which it was extremely satisfactory to witness. But he thought he could state some considerations which would induce the Hon. Gentleman to admit that, whatever ad vantages might be derivable from his plan being carried into execution, it would, on the other hand, be attended with circumstances which would not make it so desirable. Opposition was made to any demands that were consi dered unnecessary, and on that ground alone he thought he might oppose it. But he was old enough to remember that formerly great efforts were made to have those very sheets of water deepened, which the Honourable Gentleman now desired to render shallow. From ten twenty thousand pounds were granted, for the purpose of rendering the water deeper in those places. Now, the Hon. Member wished not only to undo all that was on that occasion performed, but to put an additional accumulation of earth in those basins, so that the water would be only four feet deep. He con fessed he was not able at once to calculate the expense of that measure ; but even taking the expense to be what the Hon. Gentleman stated it likely to amount to — namely, that of making an embankment on a railway— though he confessed he thooght it would amount to much more ; but even taking that estimate, would the profit to be derived from the alteration compensate for the expenditure ? He remembered when the Serpen tine was so shallow that it became extremely offen sive, from time to time, in consequence of the mud and offal from buildings in the neighbourhood, that accumulated in it ; and one of the grounds urged for deepening the water was the abatinr , of that annoyance, to which not only those who bathed in the water, but also the persons who went for recreation in the Park, were exposed, and who were thus deprived, in a great measure, of the pleasure which the Parks were calculated to afford. He was aware that no man went into the water without risking his life ; but, at the same time, this was a manly and invigorating exercise ; and he should be sorry to debar those classes of society from it, by whom it was desirable such advantages should be enjoyed.—(Hear, hear.) He would also ask w h e th er the proposition Of the Hon. Member would be practi cable, with any enjoyment, to the parties using the water for their recreation.—(Hear, hear.) • He was also quite certain that it would not provide a remedy for the evil they desired to remove. Its effect would be to drive the population to o th er pieces of water, and they would have them bathing in the Thames or other places, where there was tenfold danger to life, and where, he believed, the, loss of life would be far greater. He hoped, therefore, the Hon. Gentleman would withdraw his mo tion.—(Hear.) Mr. RENNIE replied. The accumulation of mud which formerly took place in the Serpentine, was occa sioned by a sewer that had been recently removed, and shallow water would not become putrid, provided there was a constant fresh supply. However, seeing that the majority of the House would be against him, he should not press his motion, but he hoped that Government would take the matter into consideration at a future time.—(Hear, hear.) POOR-LAW COMMISSION. Sir R. PEEL said that he had given notice of a Bill to continue certain Acts .that would expire within a limited time. Upon consideration, he thought he should best consult the opinions of the House by bringing in two Bills—(Hear, hear)—one to continue the Poor-law Commission, and the other to conti nue th e rema i n i ng Acts. He also thought it right to mention, that those who might wish to make any motion on the subject should do so by moving an instruction to the Committee on the Bill to receive the proposition they wished to make. He therefore moved for leave to bring in a Bill to continue the Poor-law Commission until the 31st of July, 1842 ;. also for leave to bring in a Bill to continue such laws as would expire within a limited period. Leave granted. THE HOUSES OF PARLIAMENT. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that the following Members be appointed the Select Com mittee on Ventilation of the New Houses of Parliament:— Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, Lord John Russell, Lord Stanley, Sir John Hobhouse, Sir James Graham, .Lord Viscount Falmerston, Lord Francis Egerton, Sir Richard Vyvyan, Mr. O'Connell, Sir Robert Harry Inglis, Mr. Wynn, Mr. Francis Thornhill Baring, Sir George Clerk, Mr. Hawes, Sir Charles Burrell, Mr. Tuf nell, Lord Viscount Sandon, Sir John Guest, and Mr. Vernon Smith, MAYNOOTII COLLEGE. On the motion for bringing up the Report of the Com mittee of Supply, Colonel ACTON said he wished to say a few words to the House on a matter personal to himself. He was most anxious to explain that it was his intention to have voted against the grant to the College of Maynooth, and he communicated to several of his friends about him in the House his fixed determination so to do, but having inadvertently gone into the old lobby he did not discover his mistake until the door was shut.— (Laughter.) As soon as he was aware of his mistake he remonstrated in the strongest manner against being obliged to record his vote against his principles, and contrary to his recently expressed opinions, but he was informed that having gone into the lobby his vote had, in fact, been given, and could not be recalled.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) It was most painful to him to vote against her Majesty's present Government, from which he had reason to expect such inestimable benefits to the nation, but he never could conscientiously vote for the grant to Maynooth College. He never intended to do so, and never would.—(Hear, hear.) He trusted the House would pardon his intrusion. He felt it due to his own character, and that of the constituency he had the honor to represent, thus to explain the apparent incon sistency of his eonduct.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. PLUMPTRE said the Gallant Colonel shortly before the division intimated to him his intention to vote against the grant, which he would doubtless have done, but that in following the Hon. Member for Ox ford (Sir R. H. Inglis) he unfortunately went into the wrong lobby.—(Laughter.) Thy Report was then brought up. On the vote for the National Gallery being put, Sir CHARLES BURRELL said he had been informed by good judges that the Perugino, which had been lately purchased for the National Gallery, was a picture of an inferior description, and by no means calculated to re flect credit on those who had been concerned in its pur chase. It had originally been bought by Mr. Beclzford for 501., and had been purchased for the National Gallery at the enormous price of 8001. It had been what was called scribbled all over, that was, repainted—and a bandeau, which had formerly been round the head of one of the principal figures, had been removed. He trusted the Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of the Govern ment, in whose skill and taste he had the greatest con fidence, would endeavour that some right understanding should be come to regarding that picture. The Report was then agreed to. WAYS AND MEANS. Sir GEORGE CLERK moved that the House do to morrow resolve isself into a Committee of the whole House to consider the Ways and Means. Agreed to. FOREIGN BISHOPS BILL. The amended Report on the Foreign Bishops Bill was then brought up and agreed to. NAVY PAY BILL. On the Order of the Day being moved for the third reeling of the Navy Bill. Captain BERKELEY said that he regretted seeing no Member of the Government connected with the Admi ralty present, as he wished to direct the attention of the Members of that Board to a grievance to which seamen on foreign stations were subjected. He would relate what had happened on board his own ship as an illustra tion. The men had received their pay at Gibralta r , an d i n consequence of the ra t e of exchange, had been subjected to a loss of fourpence on every dollar they received. He had drawn the attention of the former Secretary of the Admiralty to the subject, and he trusted the present Secretary would adopt measures to preient seamen from being subjected to such 'disitivaa- taps, The Bill was read a third time, and passed. LUNATICS ASYLUM BILL. On the motion of Lord ASHLEY, the House resolved itself into a Committee. I Mr. WAKLEY said he hoped the Noble Lord would I consent that the renewal of the present law, which was the object of the present Bill, should be for one year only, instead of for three. The subject of the treatment `of lunatics had been much discussed of late, and there could be no doubt that some alteration must take place in the law without delay. Last Session not;ces had been given on the subject, both by the Hon. Member for Lambeth, and the Right lion. Member for Dumfries. Thoe Hon. Members had not then proceeded further, but there could be no doubt but that early in the ensuing Session the House would have to. inquire into the subject. He admitted that the ex isting commission had been of essential service, but still he thought the public had a right to expect more infor mation from them than they had yet received. There could be.no doubt but that the restraint in the treatment of the insane had been much diminished, but at the same time lie knew that a most outrageous system of restraint existed in many lunatic asylums. The provi sions of the Act, which it was now sought to continue, extended only within a few miles of the metropolis, and it was of no effect in the country at large, and cense quently the visitations in the country districts were in effectual for the purposes of humanity. There was ano ther provision so obnoxious to common sense that it ought not to be tolerated, for while a person desirous of receiving two lunatics was Obliged to apply for a licence to the Commissioners, if a person received only one lunatic the Noble Lord and his colleagues had no power of visitation over them ' - so that if fifty persons were separately confin e d i n fifty different places, and confined unjustly, the Commissioners had no power of visiting them. He had last Session presented a petition from a a gentleman who had a relative, a lady of large income, who was confined as a lunatic. He had tried to gain an interview with her, and could not succeed ; he had tried to communicate in writing with her, he could not succeed ; he had tried to find out where she was confined, but he could not find out the place of her concealment. Ought a system so fraught with injustice and inhumanity to be sanctioned? He had no doubt but that there were hundreds confined in lunatic asylums in the country who were as sane as many per sons in that House, and a great deal 'more so in some instances.—(A laugh.) Even if the Commissioners found a person unjustly confined they could not release him until after repeated visits, and in many instances li six weeks must elapse before his release could take plaoe. This monstrous state of things called for inquiry, and the provisions .of the Act should be extended to all Eng land. In one asylum with which he was acquainted chains had been laid aside, and the patients were ma naged almost without restraint, and by the appointment of additional keepers and kind treatment had been rendered almost harmless—he alluded to the Asylum for the county of .Middlesex ' and the Magistrat es w h o had the superintenden ce o f that Asylum had con ducted themselves in a manner that entitled them to the gratitude of mankind. He did not mean to say that in the majority of asylums patients were treated in an unjust or cruel manner, but the principle was a bad one. He would put a case. Suppose he had a relative, of large fortune, in whose conduct he had observed certain eccentricities. Having a great affection for his relative, but a greater affection for his fortune, he would sue out a commission of lu nacy, and his relative having been declared insane wolild be placed in confinement. Now, did they attempt to operate upon the selfish interests of the asylum-keeper to cure his patient ? No. The keeper said as long as this man continued insane I shall receive 4001. a year, which I shall loose if he recover. Under such circumstances it was not likely that the man would ever become sane. If an Hon. Member had a liver complaint, would he imagine that the best way of getting rid of it would be to say to his doctor, I will allow you 1001. a-year as long as this liver complaint lasts.—(A laugh.) The House ought to devise some means of remedying this mono tonous and preposterous state of things. No doubt the Hon. Member for Lambeth, or the Hon. Member for Dumfries would bring forward the subject next Session, and he, therefore, hoped the Noble Lord would consent to the amendment he was about to 'propose, which was, that in line 24 the words " one year" be substituted for " three years." Mr. HAWES seconded the amendment. He knew the Noble Lord had devoted great attention to the subject, and he must . be aware that great abuses existed in the management of lunatic asylums. In fact, there was no proper check upon them. The Noble Lord would recollect the case of the Hereford Asylum, and the scene there brought to light was dis graceful. Under the present law a single apothecary, under special circumstances, had the power to send any man to a lunatic asylum for ever, and in cases of paupers a single Justice of the Peace, by his single certificate, possesed the same power. Lord ASHLEY—Not for ever. Mr. HAWES—The Noble Lord said not for ever, but such, 'however, was the practical effect, for what man of nervous temperament could undergo the scrutinizing ex• amination of .a medical man prejudiced against the idea of his sanity, to which he would have to submit before he could obtain his liberty. All that the Hon. Member for Finsbury asked was, that the Noble Lord would not seek to renew the Bill for so long a period. The Noble Lord had rendered many and essential services to the country, and he hoped he would give his assent to the shorter period: Lord ASHLEY, who spoke in so low a tone that he was scarcely audible in tee gallery; was understood to defend the Commissioners, but they had not sufficient power to do all they wished. The authority under which they acted was so limited that heinust Confess they did not do all that might be expected from them. The Act was intended rather as a prevention against abuses, than as one of a remedial nature. And that was stated at the time the Act was introduced. They had made periodi cal reports, but they were not laid on the table of the House, but if it were deemed necessary the Reports could be laid on the table, when the Hope would see what had been done.—(Hear, hear.) If there had been any omission, it was the omission of the Act, and not of the Commission. A great deal of what had been done was not by the authority of their powers, but by sug gestion and advice. They had, in a great many in stances refused licenses, but they had found it necessary to resort to extreme measures in only two cases. In many instances, however, they had found it difficult to restrain the parties offending within due bounds, and if it were known that their power was to cease in twelve months, the proprietors of asylums may take advantage of that knowledge, and the House may be certain the Commission would have great difficulty in maintaining proper control; at the same time he was not indifferent to the imperfections of the Act—(Hear, hear)—to remedy which he devoted his entire attention.—(Hear.) He was glad the Hon. Member for Lambeth La 1 called the attention of the Secretary of State to the subject ; and it would be remembered he did the same himself when the Member tier London filled the same office ; and he had no doubt his Right Hon. Friend would be ready to listen to the suggestions that were made. Within seven mites of London the asylums were brought to a very complete state ; but he was sorry he could not say the same of the provincial asylums, which, he be lieved, were not subject to any official examination, and that there were several of which they had no knowledge at all. He conceived it would be necessary to have the returns from all the provincial asylums. There were other defects which he did not know how to remedy, as that of the admission of persons into lunatic asylums. There was a disposition, on the part of the fi leach of a relative, not only to get rid of the unfortunate relative, but to wipe from their minds all memory of him ; and that was an additional reason why there should be, in the provinces, a searching visitation—(Hear, hear) — and to compel the relatives to do their duty. The only question was, whether the Bill should be renewel for three years, or for one ; but he considered that three years were absolutely necessary ; and, for himself, he would say, that all the time he could spare, and all the energy he could devote, would be freely and warmly given to the subject ; and he hoped, with the assistance of others, he should be able to inform the House, as soon as possible, of the adoption of some general rule, whereby the entire management of those asylums would be subject to a full, complete, and effective system of visitation.—(Hear.) Sir B. INGLIS begged to take the present opportu nity of making his acknowledgment with his whole heart, and he believed his feelings were participated by nine tenths of the House, and were responded to by the entire country, as far as the character of the Noble Lord was known to it—not only for the present evidence of his worth, but for all matters in which, apart from politics, he had ever been engaged.—(Cheers.) There was no title. which he ever earned—there was no title which he could earn—equal to what he earned in that House as the friend of every sufferer. Mr. WAKLEY was ready to agree in the opinion of the merits of the Noble Lord, but in his (Mr. Wakley's) mind the speech of the Noble Lord proved that the com mission ought not to be extended to three years. The Noble Lord said the act was difficult —h e alluded to want of power—he said that discrepancies existed in the law, and yet the Noble Lord said " Renew the Act." He said he would give all his energies to the subject— hut if the Act was as he stated, would it not paralyse those energies? When the Noble Lord the Member for London proposed to renew the Poor-law Bill for ten years, the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tam worth refused to accede, because he thought the power belonging to the Commissioners ought to be subject to frequent supervision. The same argument applied to the present Commission. It was a well-paid Commission— he did not object to payment—but what we re th ey pa i d for ? The professional men of that C omm i ttee _ p so a m id e of one thegmuinleaawyaenrs, hour ; some physi c i ans — were a ndhe believed et was optional with themselves how many hours they would spend. He believed that one person, properly selected, and responsible for his acts, as the Home Secre tary was responsible for his, would do more service than the entire Commission. , The subject ought to be taken in hand by Government, and placed undEr the searching and effectual supervision of the Home Secretary. This was a question unconnected with politics, and he hoped the Noble Lord, seeing he could have no motive, per sonal or otherwise, in urging it, would consent to adopt the shorter period, for the sooner it came before Parlia ment the better. Lord ASHLEY said that the Commissioners were not laid ; at least, that he was not. Mr. WAKLEY had only alluded to the professional Members of the Commission—and he said so distinctly. He could assure the Noble Lord he never meant to say he was paid ; but the professional Members had a guinea or a pound for every hour's attendance, and the Act, he believed, imposed no limit upon that attendance. Sir J. GRAHAM said, that, as he had been so often alluded to, he would say a few words, though he had i not yet directed much of his attention to the -subject. It , was a subject of deep and gra te importance, and it was impossible to listen to the discussion without feeling that it touched the heart and he cordially - 4,;ieed vlil the Han. Member for O x ford, th a t, am id the many claims of his Noble Friend upon the gratitude of the British public, none gave him so good a title to it as that which he acquired as the friend of the unprotected, and none gave him so strong a claim as the position he had taken on the present subject.—(Loud cheers.) The question before the Committee was simply, whether the Com missioners should be continued for three years, or for one. He agreed with the Hon. Member for Finsbury, that it was very desirable that the conduct of public servants should undergo investigation. He also agreed with him as to the nec ess ity o f i nqu i ry i nto t h e conf i nement of lu natics in general; and if it should be found upon careful consideration that further steps were necessary, he would in a future Session propose an alteration. But 'after the declaration of his Noble Friend, if the question of one or three years went to a division, he would vote for the longer period. Mr. WTAKLEY said he had moved this amendment b2cause he believed that he was serving the cause of hu manity. It he thought there was any probability of his succeeding he would go to a division ; if, however, he was likely to be in a small minority, he would refrain from doing so, believing that it would only injure the cause he was advocating.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. ESTCOUR'I' said his opinions on the subject coincided with those of the Hon. Member for Finsbury, and had a division taken taken place, he would certainly have voted with him ; but after what had fallen from his Noble Friend, and from the Secretary of State for the Home Department, he would recommend the Hon. Mem ber not to press the House to a division. Mr: WAKLEY then withdrew his amendment. The House then resumed, the Chairman reported pro gress, and the Report was ordered to be brought up to morrow. On the motion that the Poor-law Continuance Bill be read a first time, Mr. YORKE said he would here give notice, that he should move that the Commissioners be not empowered to enforce indiscriminate separation between man and wife, and that in no case should they sanction it, where the application for relief arose neither from poverty nor vice. Sir J. GRAHAM said, that • as he should to-morrow propose the second reading of the Bill, that, perhaps, would be the best time for giving notices of amendment. Mr. YORKE said he would give notice of his motion to-morrow. The Bill was then read a first time. Sir J. GRAHAM gave notice that to-morrow he would ask leave to bring in a Bill for the payment of the per 6011s employed in taking the census of the population. The House then adjourned at a Quarter-past Eight. MANCHESTER AND LEEDS RAIL- WAY HALF-YEARLY MEETING. The tenth half-yearly meeting of the Proprietors in this undertaking was held on Thursday last, at the Com pany's Offices, Clowe's-buildings, Hunt's Bank, and was rather numerously attended, there being nearly seventy Proprietors present, several from a considerable distance. H. HouLnswouTit, Esq., Chairman of the Board of Directors, having taken the chair, called on the Secre tary, Mr. Jellicorse, who read an advertisement in the Manchester Guardian convening the meeting, and stated that a similar notice had appeared in the Leeds Mercury. The Chairman, having first taken the vote of the meet ing to authorise him, next proceeded to affix the Com pany's seal to the register of Proprietors, and then re quested Mr. Entwisle, one of the Directors, to read their Report. Mr. W. ENTWISLE then read the Report. It is too long for insertion entire, and printed copies are in the hands of the Shareholders ; but the following are the principal passages of general interest The total receipts for the first six months ending on the Ist instant, have been 103,070/. 175., showing a weekly average, during the first three months, of 3,2511. Os. Id., and, during the second three months, of 4,619/. 18s. 2d. And though some part of this improvement is, undoubtedly, due to the in crease of traffic that always takes place at this season of the year, yet the Directors feel justified in stating their opinion that the traffic is gradually developing itself, and, under more favourable circumstances, when trade shall have recovered from its present depressed state, will fully answer the expectations that they have always entertained. The average weakly re ceipts, during the six weeks ending on the 6th instant, have amounted 'to 5,1981. Os. 3d. The total disbursements on capital account, up to the Ist of July, amounted to 2,728,270/. Is. lod., which sum includes the payments on account of the extension line to Hunt's Bank, and of land and materials available for re-sale, amounting together to about 80,000/. In the financial exposition given to the Proprietors at the special meeting held on the 3d of June last, it was stated that the questions of a dividend, and of the issue of the new shares to be created under the powers of the recent Act of 4 Victoria, would form subjects of consideration for the ir ssent meeting, and that in the present state of the finances of the Company, they were inseparably connected. By postponing a division of the profits, the issue of the new shares might for a time be de layed; but the Directors, after much consideration, and with an anxious desire to meet the wishes of the shareho!ders, have de termined to recommend that a dividend, in proportion to the amounts paid upon the shares, viz., of 2/. on each share of 1001., and of 17s. 2d. on each share of 50/.. amounting to gether to the sum of 37,158/. 6s. Bd., be de. lar.td out of the surplus receipts derived from the partial corking of the line, simultaneously with the issue of the new shares of 25/. upon which a deposit will berequired of 21. per share ; and they fur ther recommend, that the new shares be offered to the Proprie tors in the proportion of one share of 25/. for every 1001. if the stock of this Company held by au) , Pooprietor. Although the capital stock of the Company has recently improved in value, as the Directors had anticipated, yet the rise is not yet sufficient to ensure that the new shares will be taken up at par, and the Directors had, therefore, to consider in what manner an adequate inducement should be held out to the Proprietors or the public to subscribe for these shares. The issue of them at a discount would deprive the Company of a portion of their Parliamentary capital; and, in order to avoid th s, it has been determined to recommend that an extra value be given to the new shares by engaging to pay dividends upon such deposit and upon all' sums called up and paid upon them, at the rate of ten per cent. per annum for five years ; and that such shares be entitled to dividends after the expira tion of the said term, in proportion to the amount paid upon them in exactly the same manner as the other shares. Under these conditions, they believe that the shares will readily be taken up; and, as it will probably be thought desirable to raise as much of the future capital as possible by loans on bond, in anticipation of calls, the expenses to the Company of placing the shares will be but small and temporary. Since the special meeting in June last, the contract for the Oldham Branch Line has been entered into, and the contractor is bound to have it completed and ready for opening early in January next. The total cost will be within 50,000/. The Halifax Branch Line will form the next subject of the attention of the Directors. The continued indisposition of the Directors of the Liverpool and Manchester Railway Company to proceed with the con nection line, together with the unfavourable state of the times, and the serious inconvenience which would be caused to the Proprietors, by calling upon them for any large amount of capi tal, under the great depression which has taken place during the last half-year in the market value of the stock of this Com pany, have combined to deter the Directors from submitting to the Shareholders on the present occasion any proposition for the immediate commencement of the works upon the Exten sion Line to Hunt's Bank. But, as the powers of the Com pany to purchase land expire in July next (unless their renewal sliould be obtained in the next Session of Parlia ment, for which notices must be given in November next), some pa s:tive decision has become unavoidable. As the question at present stands, the Directors of this Company Lave reason to believe that the project of a junction line round the southern side of the town, is virtually abandoned; and that the oily point at issue is the sufficiency of the thorough traffic to afford adequate remuneration for the outlay. The opening of the Manchester and Leeds line has been looked to by the Directors of the Liverpool and Manchester Company as being likely to afford a basis on which to found their calculations for the solution of this question; but it has long been the opinion of your Directors, that no result obtained from the traffic between the lines, while disconnected, can ever afford that de gree of certainty of success which the very cautious policy of the Liverpool and Manchester Company seems to iequ;re ; for the question is not so much as to the amount of existing traffic through Manchester, as the amount which would be diverted into this channel by a continuous railway communica tion. This can only be determined by actual expe rience ; but, from the immense extent of the intercourse known to subsist between Liverpool and the populous districts on the line of the Manchester and Leeds Railway, the result may, in the opinion of this Board, be as certainly inferred and relied upon as any data on which such works are u.ually undertaken. In puisuance, therefore, of their posers under their Act of Parliament, the Directors have determined to proceed with the purchase of the remainder of the land re quired for this purpose, by which means they will secure for this Company the power of forming a direct communication with the Old Ricer Company, in case the Directors of the Liverpool and Manchester Company shall allow their own powers to expire unexercised. The advantages of this con nection with the water conveyance to Liverpool would be, in the opinion of your Directors, inferior only to those of a direct railway communication ; in proof of which they would refer the Proprietors to the recent introduction of an improved class of boats upon the old river, an experiment that appears hitherto to have been attended with complete success. The CHAIRMAN then said that it had been usual to follow the reading of the Report by a few observations, to supply details on subjects noticed in the Report, or to give information on other subjects, known to interest the Proprietors at the time ; although they were now ap proaching a period when, he trusted, facts would speak for themselves, and would require no comment. But, in refer ence to the present half-year, he thought a few observations might be desirable. In the first place, he would advert to the opening of the line, on the Ist of March last, as an event which would not only set at rest all doubt and anxiety as to the completion of the line, but at the same time remove all remaining obstacles to that remunerating traffic towards which they had so long looked. They might now very properly congratulate themselves on the completion of so stupendous a work. Whether they looked at the nature of the country through which the line passed, the engineering difficulties which opposed themselves, or the pecuniary difficulties of the times in which the work was car ried on • to the energy and skill thus employed in the expendi ture of ;he capital, or to the immense advantages which the railway was likely to confer upon the district through which it runs, and the addition which it could net fail to make to the productive energies of the country—all these were reasons for congratulating themselves; and, if there were no other similar wcirk in the country, this line would, he thnught, bear ample testimony to the industry, zeal, and enterprise of the age. When he last addressed the proprietors in June, the Directors expressed some disappointment that. the increese in the traffic had not answered their expec tations ;. but, at that time, they had overlooked a fact which subsequent experience had shown to have considerable effect on their traffic. At that time they had not contemplated their present arrangements with the carriers; so that in May last their increased traffic was exceedingly small. Since then, however, the traffic had continued to increase steadily and pro. gressively, so as sufficiently to indicate that the Manchester and Leeds line was to form no exception to the rule, as to all the principal railways, that there was, and would continue to be for a long time after the opening, a steady and progressive increase of traffic. During the six months just elapsed, to the Ist September inst., their receipts had been 1 03,000/., and in that time the average weekly receipts of the first three months was 3,2761. ; of the second three months, 4,6161. These sums differed a little from the accounts as published ; but, as would be perceived, during the last six weeks or two months, they had occasionally to add the receipts, ere they accrued, in balancing the accounts; and, if the corrections were made, the result would be, that in the first three months the weekly re. ceipts would be 3,2761., and in the second three months 4,6161. Their average weekly receipts, during last month (August), had been 4,895/., when these corrections were made. Though this was not sufficient amount to make an adequate return upon the amount of capital expended, it formed a basis on which he thought they might very properly found some conclusions in endeavouring to estimate the future traffic on the line And although it was scarcely the business of the Directory or the Chairman to enter much into such state ments, still he thought it their duty to put the Proprietors in•o possession, as far as they could, of all those circumstances which tend to show the ultimate prospects of the concern. The receipts—taking for a basis the present receipts, and mak ing those deductions to which he had referred, and which were derived from the experience of other lines—would be very nearly 6,0001. a week. This showed, he thought, that they could not but expect an advantageous result for the under taking. The next important subject was the expense of working the line. They had not yet the data sufficient to enable them to ascertain at what rate per .annum they could work the line; but, taking every pains to ascertain the probable amount, in cluding maintenance of way, the depreciation of stock, and, in fact, every charge they could conceive could come in, and they found that with a receipt of from 5,0001. to 6,0001. a week, their expenditure would not exceed 100,000/. a year. If they succeeded in keeping it to that amount, they would work their line at R more moderate cost than any other of the large lines. Another observation with respect to the profits. Different principles were in operation in different, Companies as to the mode of conducting their traffic ; and as those principles were essentially afferent, and as the Directors conceived that the principle on which they intended to work this line was the rtAht one, he might explain wherein the difference lay. It had been tt.sumed on some lines, that the expense of convey ing passengers or goods was a certain amount, say Id or lid. per passenger, and, consequently, any traffic which would not yield something more than lid. per passenger, was not worth while for these Companies to secure; but the Di rectors of this Company did not look at their traffic in this light. They had a fixed expenditure, say 100,0001. a yoar, whether their traffic was large or small ; and they set aside the receipts of the first traffic to pay that 100,000/., and all surplus beyond that amount they looked upon as profit. Consequently, guided by that princi ple, their endeavour was, first to secure such traffic as the dis trict yielded through which the line passed, at the highest charges consistent with the interests of the Company. Par liament had sufficiently protected the public, and the Company endeavoured to get the most out of the district. But, when they looked further than their own district, they saw that, un less they reduced the rates very materially, there would be, beyond what they were able to derive from their own district, a considerable portion of traffic which would take other routes. With respect to the new shares, they trusted that the con ditions on which they were offered would be satisfactory to the Proprietors, and that they would be taken up; and, as they had been obliged to connect the issue of new shares with the payment of the dividend, he was anxious to prevent the possi bility of any one conceiving that the dividend was a payment out of the call. The fact was, that their revenue account had already borrowed the money, in order to make good the excess of expenditure beyond the capital they had raised; they had had to borrow from the revenue fund all the money that had accrued from the traffic, and the call would enable them to pay that back, and then that fund was the legitimate source from which to pay the dividend. Mr. KAY assed, whether it was a rule that no porterage should be allowed to third-class passengers ? The CHAIRMAN—It is. Mr. KAY.—Then he — should recommend the Directors to take that rule into further consideration. A few days ago, at one station, a female came with a box, which she wanted placing on the luggage-train, and none o f t h e porters were willing to assist her. At length a gentleman standing by, seeing her situation, took it up, and carried it to the luggage-train. One of the porters came to him, and wished to know whether he was a passenger ; and it was not till he had shown his ticket that the interference of the porter ceased. He thought this a case deserving the attention of the Directors. The CH AIRMAN said, the Directors had, on a former occa sion, explained to the Proprietors the principle which they found it absolutely necessary to apply to the working of that traffic, so long as they maintained that class of fares. It was a question how far the public convenience was better provided for by having only two classes of passengers, and giving the usual attendance and porters to both, or having a third class at a much lower fare. The Directors conceived that it was mre e for the interests of the public that the Com pany should provide a liw class of carriages for the conveni ence of those who could afford to pay a high class fare ; and, in order to make that meet the interest of the Proprietors, they were obliged to limit the expense as much as possible. They could only do so by using carriages to hold a much larger number of people, and by not incurring any expense in porterage. There would occasionally be cases of hardship like that named; but the question would be, whether it was not better upon the whole for the lower classes that they should be conveyed at the rate of Id. or lid. a mile, than that no such conveyance should be afforded them below 2d. a mile. The Directors believed that it was for the interest of that class of people that it should be as at present. Mr. KA v s: ii, he understood that the lower class passengers formed as large a per centsga upon the capital as any class. The CHAIRMA N said they did so ; but, if they allowed por terage to the third class, many second-class passengers would become third-class passengers. Mr. E. LOYD, banker,said he had been exceedingly gratified with the Report ; and he had great pleasure in moving that the Report of the Directors now read be received ; that their pro. ceedings be approved of and confirmed; and that their accounts, up to the 30th June last, be passed. The motion for the adoption of the Report was then put from the Chair, and passed nevi. dis. A PROPRIETOR asked—Have you made any estimate of the expense or making the branch to Halifax ? Mr. Goocsa said the estimate was about 55,000/., the length being about 1% mile. The CHAIRMAN said it was their intention to commence that branch early in the spring. The PROPRIETOR then asked if the Directors kept the ac count of Sunday traffic separate from the rest ; because the Proprietors, who had strong conscientious objections to parti cipating in the profits of Sunday travelling, might wish to know what these were ? The CHAIRMAN said they had the accounts so made out, that the Sunday traffic might be distinguished ; and they could, if the meeting wished it, state, at the bottom of the dividend warrants, as the Liverpool and Manchester Company did, the amount of the Sunday traffic. After a long dissertation by Mr. James Wood against Sun day travelling, which led to no result, the meeting separated. THE NEW FRENCH. LOAN. The substance of the following regulations for con tracting the new French loan appeared in our Afternoon Edition of Monday ; but as the bulk of our monetary and commercial readers may be expected to take more than ordinary interest in so important a financial mea sure, we publish at length the Decree of the Finance Minister. In choosing the present time for issuing this loan, there can be no doubt that the French Govern ment is eager to manifest to the world how little its credit is impaired by the attempt, upon the life of the Royal Princes, and the emeutes against the census in different parts of France. DECREE OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE. Art. 1. On Monday October 18, 1841, at noon precisely, there shall be proceeded with at the Ministry of Finance in public sitting, the sale and adjudication under sealed tender, in one lot, to the highest bidder, of the amount of Three per Cent. Rentes, which will produce at the price of adjudication a capital of 150,000,000 f. Art. 2. The Rentes adjudged shall be inscribed with in terest on the 22d June, 1841. Art. 3. The payment of the 150,000,000 shall be affected at the periods and in the proportions following : On the 28th October, 1841 7,500,000 28th November 7th January, 1842 7th February 11,250,000 7th March 7th April 7th May 7th June 15,000,000 7th July 7th August 15,000,000 7th September 7th October 50,000 Art. 4. On the d a y fi xe d f or the reception 000 of , the tenders, the Minister shall open the sitting by depositing on the bureau a sealed packet enclosing the declaration signed by himself, containing the minimum of the price at which he willconsent to the sale and adjudication of the Rentes which are to represent the 150,000,000 of Rentes. This declaration shall not be opened but in the :event of any tender reaching the minimum fixe.t by the Minister. Art. 5. The tenders shall be received, sealed, from thehands of the parties tendering, numerically arranged on the bureau, to be opened in their presence publicly and in open sitting. Art. 6. Every tender to be available must be drawn out agreeable to the models delivered, and accompanied by a re ceipt from the Caisse de Depots et Consignation of a deposit of guarantee, and which is to be produced with the tender. The price offered must be expressed in francs and centimes, with out any stipulation of any eventual condition. Art. 7. 'f he deposit of guarantee of each tender cannot be be10w.5,000,000. This sum may be either in cash or in inscriptions of Three per Cent. Rentes, calculuted at 75, and in Four, Four-and-a. Half, and Five per Cent. Rentes at par, in Treasury Bonds, or in shares of canals, proceeding from a loan guaranlised by the state. Such of these which shall be nominal or to order, should be transferred to the Caisse de Depots. Those deposits for guarantee lodged by those whose tenders are not accepted shall be returned within 24 hours after the adjudication. Art. 8. The reception of tenders being terminated, th e Minister of Finance shall proceed to the opening of ede said tenders according to their numbers, and shall read them publicly. Art. 9. The adjudication of the loan shall b e male to the L aest price' o f R entes to Company who shall have offered the . hie furnish by the Public Treasury, and .. P:e under the r eset vation stated in default of validity, to th e highest tender in order of pri in art. 4. 7'he Minister of F~ :lance shall pronounce his decision Art. 10 pub t.ne sole judg e o f t h e validity of the tenders. . case the highest price sh a ll b e o ff ered by two or more ( lompanies tendering, if these Companies do not agree to together, the bidding shall be again opened amongst themselves, either publicly or by sealed tenders, if one of the party demand that mode. Art. 11. Within the five days of the adjudication, the Com pany declared to be the contractors should carry up their de posit of guarantee to the amount of 15,000,000. This gua rantee may be realised according to the conditions stipulated in art. 7. If the deposit is not completed at the expiration of this delay, the Company contracting will incur the de eheance of all right, with the forfeiture of the first deposit of 5,000,000, which will accrue to the Treasury under title of indemnity. The deposit of 15,000,000 shall not be obligatory if the Company within the delay of five days make good the payment of the two first instalments of the loan. The discount shall be bonified to them at the rate of 4 per cent. per annum, for the time to run, from the day of payment until the falling due of each of the instalments. Art. 12. After the payment of the two first instalments by the contracting Company, there shall .be delivered to them, by the Treasury, certificates, stating the said payments. Art. 13. The responsibility stipulated in the tender shall f cease after th e p ayment o f the two first instalments of t h e the a mount of those two instalments to be reserved or the ulterior guarantee of the Treasury. Art. 14. I n case of d e l ay of the p the debt or s h a ll b e l i a b le to the Treasuryamyfoernttfhr of an instalment , oeminithereesfitftaht daythe rate of 5 p er cent . per annum, ca l cu l at i ng alter thbeeiningstnaelemeessnatry. falls due, without any other preliminary within r u preliminar a y mo l n n th de f f r a ,a u l l a t of the atthdepe o payment certificate shall be recoverable in e full, d ue, and t he in stalment f the Minister of ietsnt o becoming an Finance may effect the sale of it for the profit of the Treasury with due concurrence. payment ment made, into the central caisse Art. 15. Every signed by the compt ro ll er, or by a receipt detached receipt from the centre from, the coupon and also s i gne d b y the of the Treasury, in d i e t r a t s o hi b e e r, available, must be stat e d b y a comptroller of the ca isse. Done at Paris, th i s 18th Sept. 1841. The Minister Secretary of State of the Finance, HUMANN. MORNING SFN CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT. (YESTERDAY.) OLD COURT. (Before the RECORDER. ) The Court was opened yesterday morning at len o'clock, but was unable to proceed to business, in consequence of the non-attendance of any of the Aldermen. After the Court had waited for about three quarters of an hour, Alder man Sir George Carroll entered, and on taking his seat, said he begged to inform the Court and the Jury that it was not by any neglect of his that the Court had been kept waiting. He had hem in attendance in the other Court since nine o'clock, and was not aware of the absence in this Court of his brother Aldermen. He thought it right to state this, in order that the onus should fall on the right shoulders. On a similar - . Occasion, some lime ago, when he was in attendance in the other Court at the usual hour, he had been charged by the newspapers with neglect if duty in not attending. It was vast eleven o'clock before the business of the Court commenced, Sir George Carroll being the only Alderman in attendance at that time. NEW COURT.. , (Before the COMBION SERG EANT . ) A considerable time elapsed before the Court could proceed with business, in consequence of the absence of an Alderman. Mr. :Alderman Pirie having at length entered the Court, and apologized for delaying the business, Mcry Anne Epps was placed at the bar on an indict ment charging her with stealing 30 yards of ribbon, the prop, rty of William Kingston. It appeared from the evidence of the prosecutor's as sistant, that the prisoner came into the shop and bought a piece of ribbon. The witness missed two pieces of ribbon, one of which he afterwards found in one of the drawers ; but on the prisoner leaving the shop he laid hold of her, and then saw the article named in the in dictment lying at her feet. Mr. CHAMBERS appeared for the defence, and cross examined the witnesses at great length. The Jury having returned a verdict of Guilty, and a forme conviction having been put in against the prisoner, The COURT sentenced her to be transported for seven years. John Clifford was brought up for judgment, on a charge of riot and assaulting the police in Copenhagen fields. Some extenuating circumstances having appeared in favour of the prisoner, The COMMON SERGEANT sentenced him to two months' imprisonment. :John Lowe was indicted for stealing a truss of bay, the property of James Carter, his employer. It :rppeared in evidence that the prisoner was sent to sell a load of hay in Smithfield, and took the truss to feed his master's horses, instead of which he sold it to a greengrocer, named Udale. The Jury returned a verdict of-Guilty, accompanied with a recommendation to mercy, on the ground of his long servitude with the prosecutor. The COADION SERGEANT said he considered the grounds on which the Jury recommended the prisoner to mercy sholild rather act as an aggravation of punish ment, for few crimes called more loudly for reprobation than an old servant, in whom confidence had been placed, acting dishonestly towards his employer. The farmers in tho neighbourhood of London suffered much from persons such as the prisoner, who, besides being dis honest, acted also with cruelty towards the unfortunate animals under their care. He should sentence him to six months imprisonment and hard labour. The prisoner, who was a very old man and quite deaf, was removed from the dock. POLICE INTELLIGENCE. MANSION-HOUS Two young men named Medhurst and Smith, we] et brought before Alderman HOOPER, for final examination undec the fol lowing circumstances. Ot late several robberies have been committed upon persons who received money at the Bank of England, and the various banking-houses in that vicinity, by well dressed and expert thieve, whose practice it has been to watch their victims white receiving and pocketing the amount of checks at the counters. The banking-houses, &c., in Lombard street and King William— atreet, have been, in fact, infested.' by thieves who apply their talents particularly to that department of the science, and in scores ofinstances hundreds have been taken from individuals. Met% ilies, one of the Bank constables, stated, that on Frid a y last, he saw th e prisoners whom he well knew to be thieves close to the London Joint-Stock Bank. Upon crossing over and following them, he saw Medhurst within the first doors of the Bank, looking through the glass doors at the persons who were receiving cash at the counts. Smith was close to the door, evidently on the look out. He immediately apprehended them, convinced that they were there for no other purpose than that of plundering. He had on a former occasion taken Med horst out of the inner past of the same banking-house, close to the counter. The Solicitor objected upon the part of the prisoners to any statement not immediately conr e3tad with the present charge. The Atoms2wAN asked whether any property was found upon the prisoner? Alerrilies stated that he found in a hand— kerchief in Aledhurst's hat four sovereigns in a white silk purse, and he also found upon him a gold ring and fashionable brooch. Smith had about him Bs. 6d., a watch, and gold ring and brooch. There were officers who knew them to be notorious and incorrigible thieves. The Solicitors strongly objected to so loose a mode of speak - - ing of the character of persons who could bring forward eri.. dente of their honesty. Henry Bagster, a constable of the Strand Union, who vas attending upon other business, declared that he knew .11Ied hurst to be a convicted thief. _ _ One of the Solicitors—What right have you to speak ? How do you know that he is a thief? Have you ever had him in cus tody ? The Constable replie that he had apprehended Medhurst himse'S, and that Mr. Dyer, of Marlborough-street, had. committed him for three months. The two prisoners solemnly declared that they had never been before a Magistrate in their lives for anything suspicious, but Medhurst said be believed that he was once up for an assault. The examination having been postponed for the purpose of further inquiry, Bagster stated to the Alderman that he had three or four officers of the Metropolitan police present who knew the prisoners to be most infamous and desperate thieves. Gooch, the turnkey of the Compter, stated that he knew the prisoners to have been in that prison for robbery, ani' Smith had a curled wig on his head to hide the " gaol crop." Smith's Solicitor submitted that there was n 4 ground fo'r charging the prisoners with any offence. Alderman HOOPER said that they were evidently acting in concert, and that Medhurst could not have been in the bank for any honest purpose. Smith's Solicitor—He might have been a shareholder for what be knew. Alderman HOOPER. said that he had every reliance upon the statement of the witnesses, and committed the prisoners for a month. The prisoners retired evidently pleased, and surprised at the lenity with which they were treated. Several well-dressed women of the town were waiting the result cf the examination cutside. QUEEN-SQ UARE. Mr. Augustus Abraham Winterbottom, of No. 2, St. John's terrace, Walham-green, architect, was placed at the bar, charge:l with knocking at doors in Sloane -street. Tile defendant said that the charge was most gross and un founded. He was at his brother's residence, in Sloane-street, on the night in question, and left it about half-past eleven o'clock, in the company of too friends, but found occasion to turn back and speak to his brother, who had seen him to the door. He remained with him about a minute, and was returning to his friends, when the policeman took him into custody upon & charge of knocking at doors. The policeman, in answer to a question from the Magistrate, said tha: he was not positive that the defendant did go up to see two separate doors and knock at them. A witness was called on behalf of the defendant, who swore most. positively that the he never lost sight of his friend, and he was positive that he never knocked at any door in Sloane street. Mr. BtTItREi.L said, that in cot:sequence of the conflicting nature of the evidence, he moat dismiss the case. Defe.ldant—The policeman has sworn to a falsehood. I have been dragged here before the public upon a false charge. What remedy have I against this policeman ? Mr. Be RRELL-I believe that the door was knecked at, and. that the constable's evidence is correct in that respect. 1 be lieve ..so that he speaks•conscientiously when he says you were othfapnoericr:danindtmheakideeynotiutry.com"Ypolauinmta, y b go t t l o d t , h ) e n Co ot the offending party ; an d I cannot think he has done more be entertained. m t think t o n u e ill The defendant then left the office, declaring that he would seek satisfaction. A letter from Grenoble, inst., in the 1 --,...-.- .4th involved in an atlair at Vizill e, Patriot des Alpes, states th a t 1 f.vril, sen., who had been nothing having -been disc-,erelli; day, a'ter being in co fie wr. writer says that domicilr n n .ment upwards of a fortniet , of the I lth at the re•i a de r ti - Les re of h th sa t e i g • y visits were made in _ L e t ae a i i t motf libertythe h is most o t t h yi e aet i preceding atyrfte.ilrpno: h,Y.le respect discovery, inhabitants of adds—" A detachment discovery, and without of leading 3 men were ment . sent yesterday to Vif, with of Grenoble , 'to assist in the taking of the census in the Commissary in that. tommune. Immediately on their arrival three control' ers met at the may ory of the conunune , a i n th u having worked on the old return, each proceeded , m w une. a party of 100 men, to inspect one-third of the cnin but against them, Most of the inhabitants closed their doors c ensus was The conferred with them through their windows. immediately thus completely barred out. Notice of this was ' Se the Go sent to the prefecture, and an estafette dispithe of Police l2th says— vernment. The Courrier du Dronte of d rs to proceed to " A battery of artillery has received AND BRIGH ACCIDENT ON THE Grenoble, and marched off at nine o'clock ur tiL LONDON P A SSENGER TRAIN.-- TON RAILWAY.—DELAY OF T • 11-0111 London to Brighton The arival of the last down-train Sunday evening in conse quence delayed for about two hours happenson on the line at Hooley quenee of an accident whichaah t place. We have collected lane, previous to its whicharrivalt we believe to be authentic : morning." the foil wing particulars? to a single carriage, which contained An engine was attached whmg along the line. Mr. Barrett ich 11 . Ir. Barrett, a superintendent On reaching H 1 I led by his wife.. oo ey- ane they was accompanwit h a train of earth -carts The of f the number ~_oro k f s , • violent collision • en came in thrown off the line, and the carts were upset and . gine wan Two men seated in the carts sustained considerable smashed. • formant states that they were not seriously injury, but our in M Barrett and his wife escaped unhurt. We have not hurt. . r. signalwas d fl i a s g tr s ibnt heard to whom bla me is attri butable. The overthrew of th e earth-carts blocked up the road, and prevent e d th e d own -train (which was apprised of the accident) from passing until the earth was cleared away. The delay caused a good deal of anxiety in Brighton on Sunday evening. LOTTERY.—(FROM A CORRESPONDENT.) ii t i t ehse south pub- The Duke of Wellington is, it is s a id, d etermined by mean s l o i f e . a 1 o c t o te n r si r d t e o r i t n h; oa l v e st open ate l o ir t, a t i t i e e r I p o r o e - s b en t ridgeioc t o a, vantigeous F,lly aa of the bridge, we think it w ill prove hi both ill a moral and political view. The Garrison Adj u t ancy at Chatham i s t o b e abolished, and a Major of Brigade to b t esubstituted, for which selected ca hp' ain J. returneld)hurmeeOw'ißtlriitefe of app p t h o i o n 7 t i o n t e h n t ß L e o g r i d ro o H o i t ll w h h a els ent os sha Service Companies from C anada.— United Serv i ce Gazette. DEPARTURE OF THE HALIFAX AND Bos tTheN beautiful st L ea tv m E - it sh p i o p oL A , cadia, MolinAv.— O n M on d a y, at noo n , u Mersey at noon, with her M a j esty's mails for Canada and th e United States. She, as i s usual Capt a i n R yn i e , l e ft th e r i ver with the steamers, took out nearly ore hundred passen g ers. wh o were a ll em b ar k e d b y ten o'clock, and at eleven the mail-bags, under the char ge of Lieutenant Ambrose, were put on board, and shortly after wards sl e steamed down the river and rounded Roef 4 Paint about 12 o'clock. I' I' : 1 0 1