The Sun. — London, England, 1841-03-06 00:00:00

MORNING _EDITION. . - had been formerly allotted to them. It had, therefore, been thought proper to make such an addition to the contingent allowances as might enable them to meet, their increased expences. The consequence was that there was a small increase in almost every battalion in one service. The next charge to which he wished to cagethie attention of the House was in the item entitled the proportion of men wanted to be completed. Last year the sum amounted to 40,000/., and in the present Car I• • 't would only amount to 20,0001. The reason 3 was that the number of effectives this year approached more nearly to the establishment than on any former oc casion ; and he bad some doubt whether he might notbave made a further reduction on that head. He would next come to the good conduct pay, on which he was sure every one would be glad to know there was an in crease. The fact was, however, that that system for which the service was indebted to the Noble Lord who. preceded bun (Mr. Macaulay), would not be fully developed until the year 1843, as it would not come sooner into full effect. Every soldier who had enlisted since 1836 was entitled for the present to have an op ton between pay awe' toe good conduct pay. Toe charge fait . tear for the good conduct pay amounted to near 3,000/., and it was this year 9,312/., showing an increase of more than 1,300/. Under the head of fo raging, and the money allowances and centingent ex penses of regimental officers abroad, there was a con- • skier able increase. Tne item amounted last year to 245.000/., and it would be raised this year to 270,0001. Ho should observe, that the estimates which he was pre, nting for the year which elapsed, between the 31st of March, 1841, ar I the 31st of March, 1842, were founded on the ae:eal expenditure of the year which had elapsed, between the 31st of March, 1839, and the 31st of March, 1845'. During that year the expendi ture had been cee • h -ably increased, particularly in Canada, in Nova Scotia, the Australian Colonies, and the Cape of Good Hope. That increase had been caused in Canada and Nova Scotia by a considerable auementstion of forces. In Australia and the Cape of Good Hope it had originated is a great rise in provi sions. In Australia prices were such as could only be produced by a scarcity. It hail, therefore, been neces sary ti incur additional expenses in these possessions ; but the House would observe with pleasure that there had been a reduction under the head of Jamaica. They would learn with still greater pleasure, that the reduction arose from a restoration of good feeling, which Lad induced that Colony to pay the expenses of its Go verument from its own resources.—( Hear, hear.) Last year he had been obliged to defray his expenses out of the Army Estimates of this country. Toe next charge to which he wis! - .ed to called the attention of Parlia ment i.rose from an innovation, but an innovation which he :vas inclined to consider very valuable—it was the cha-ge for Savings Banks. In all the cases which had come under the Authorities at the War-office, it ap peared that the formation of these banks had been et tended with the most beneficial effects. The system had bean introduced by his Noble Friend the late Secretary at Wa-, who on thet, as on every other subject, had shown himself a friend to the service. He ha •1 to pro pose i vote of 5001. for the interest on deposits. In this country such a system would net henceforward be much required, for there were everywhere banks established of which soldiers could argil themselves as well as any other iliss. Neither would they be required for such Colonies as Australia, where the syste.n of Savings' Banks was also fully established, and where the interest on money was very high. But these backs would be found a most valuable resource for that part of our army who were sc a tt ere d over diff eren t di s t an t possessions, where simitar institutions did not exist, and in which the soldiers would be induced, without them, to rquander their money in frivolous pursuits. They could now lay up their money in those countries in a manner useful to themselves and beneficial to the service. Under the bead of regimental contingencies there was no increase, but rather a slight decrease. In the charge for the transport of regiments, in the United Kingdom, there was an increase of 4,00 W. or 5,0001., which was almost entirely to be attributed to the use of railways on such occasions ; and he was sure that the increase would not be reretted, as it was accompanied with a saving of time which in military movements was more than an equivalent for a saving of money. The next charge which presented any novelty was for a sum of e w e . . " 3951. to the Westmin s t er O p hth a l m i c H os pit a l. Th a t sum would not be annually required. It was intended that the ainwil grant should be only 501., which would be alionel for rent ; and the f. 2 :11 now required would be for arrears under that head since the Ist of July, 1833. The Hospital had been found to he a most useful insti tution, as ;t stood on ground which belonged to the Crown, the of tiers wished that a grant of it might be made to t . he members of the serv i ce . Th e G overnment t h oug h t A advisable not to accede to that request, but they offered a yearly grant of 50/. as an equivalent. In the recruiting department there was a diminution in the present estimates. The charge under that head a-nountel to 119,0001. ; add it would this year amount only to 103,000/. The reasons for the reduction were that the army had been largely recruited list year, and that there was an omission of 8,137/. since last year, for the maintenance of recruits and their marching expenses, until they should have joined their regiments. , Oe closer inspection, it had been found that the charge was univarrantabl e and that the recruits received pay • from the moment they _w e. r . e icr i ; .. 7e ni p i 1 :- - Ovid g e n d i fO7-, _ . had no claim to any additioral grant. He would next cense to the vote for the battalion in Canada. 10,000/. Lad been voted last year under that head, and 1 of that sum nothing had as yet been exrencled. ( He proposed an additional sum for that pile 1 peso of 15,000/. which, with the previous 10,000/. vreuld enable him to meet the whole charge. The object of that battalion was to form in -Canada a I corps of risen so si noted, and of so high a chira-...ter, that no differences of the high wages and other tempta- Cons cfrered by tire United Stater, and the facilities pre s -nted of passing the border, should induce them to desert. Tho whole force was t, be composed of na tional troops, who hal seen fourteen years' service. Ten years' service in the Royal Canadian Regiment was to entitle a man to a pension ; and he had the strongest reason for belieting that they wool! be easily able to fill up the battalion on those terms. Tile only addi tional charge to the country, would be one penny per day tc. ea It soldier. They would each receive fifteen pence a day, as all would be entitled to additional pay for length of service ; for that (mei' man would be ea titled to one and ti,vope ice a day. Every man, :ank and file of that battalion, would receive 15d. a day, so that one penny a day per man would be the only additional char, e! to the country. Tne whcla of that, however, would not be an additional burthen to the coot t-y, far they would save the expense of having t 9 transfer a battalion every three years from the West Indies to Canada ; and of having every three years to transfer a hattslion from Canada to this country. He belies ed they were forming a corps, which, for resrecfebility of character amid of station, %scull be quite unequalled ; every private soldier in which would wear two badges for good conduct, and would be in the receipt of 15d. a day. Great pritileges would also he allowed this corps in respett of wives and children. Twelve women for every 100 men would be allowed rations, instead of sec, as was the case with other regiments ; and he thought, when they considered the respectability of the corps, and the great advantages which it would enjoy, that there would be no reason to apprehend desei tams from it. lie had given the subject his most anxious con side:atioc. He was aware that objections might be urged against the plan, but he believed that on the whole it would ha found to be the best system that co uld Le devised. He w as aga i n under thenecessity of proposing a sum 15,0001. fo r t h e servize atS t. He lena. They were not to imagine th a t lie had b een inattentive to the subject since last year, but the House must be aware that Care had been reason s for his in action. Shortly after the matter had been brought forward in that House last year a frigate commanded by a Fi each Prince of the Blood, had visited that island on an impartial mission, and of course-the House must be aware that it would have boetisexccelingly improper to withdraw any portion of the regular troops during his visit. Since that time other circumstances had occurred to which it would be n eedless fur him to advert, which bad rendered it u n d e sirable thatany diminution should take place in the military of the establish ment of that island. It was the Intention into Government, however, t take the subj ect their most serious consideration, and Le trusted that next year he might be ahletoannteaseteed e that a reduction had been made. Tne total sum re quired for the effective service last year was 4,503,000/. ; on this year the amount would be reduced to 4,443,000/. from which 932,0001., borne by the East India Company, was to be deducted ; so that the act:3A amount would be reduced to 3,110,774/. for this year. I. a t year the sum requited amounted 3,111,8701., showing a decn ase this year of nearly 10,000/i The next item to which be should draw thwir attention was the Staff Pay and Allowances, for which he should this year propose a veto of 51,153/. The vote last year had amounted to 5 9 ,958/., so that this year there was a reduction in that item of 1,800/. In the article of staff contingenc'ea there was an M ere:se this s ea: of 3,000/. Last ye .r the vote had Lem for 53,000/, and this year it amounted to 56,000/. Teis ire' ease was owing to precisely the sa me causes which had occasioned an increase in the regimental contingena s. It had taken place in the same colo nies, arid was attributable to precisely analogous causes. The estimates under that head vi ere made up for the next year from the accounts of the last year. There was an increase on the staff charges of the present year, oc casiosed by the increased advantages given to medical officerwitu accordance with the recommendations of the Naval and Military Commission. Had it not been for that alteration, the staff charges of this year, as com pared with those of last year,u we Id bare exhibited a slight diminution - • The vote for the expenses of the Public D e p artments amounted this year to 79,714/. ; last year it had amounted only to 60,1461. This in. e abolition crease was owi ng partly to th bolwitiitohn ittili tary commissions, in accordance dation of th e Naval and Military Commission, and in which recommendation t o h i e fe r e e s co o m n yreceived de from m rdia t l it ly is co so n a c r u e r e . red. The suns former! plan had been devised which completely obviated all objections and was calcul sted to satisfy persons of every religious persuasion, and he must take that opportunity of acknowledging the valuable assistance he had re. ceived from the Bishop of London, who had devoted considerable attention to the subject, and had drawn up a resolution modifying the rule in such a manner as to remove the scruples of all, and yet to preserve the dis cipline of the Asylum, as connected with the Established Church, so that now Catholics and Dissenters could conscientiously receive the benefits of an institution which was, as it ought to be, open to the children of all alike, who had shed their blood in dc fence of their country. The next item was the volunteer corps ; the Government last year had, fortunately, had no occasion for calling on that corps to render as. sist ince to the civil power. Last year, thevote for the volunteer corps had amounted to 92,9331. This year, it was only 88,2661., showing a diminution of 10,000/. The total effective estimate last year had amounted to 3,855,000/. ; and this year it amounted to 3,846,000/., showing an increase of 9,0001. He now came to the noneffective estimate, in which Gentlemen generally expected to find some reduction. Under the first head, rewards for distinguished service, the estimate would not be found to differ very materially from the one of last year. In Jamaica, the Government had had ap peintments, amounting to 3681., placed at their disposal during the last year. Of that sum 2211. bad been ap• plied to the awarding of pensions for distinguished ser tiees. Altogether 9861. had been pieced at the dis posal of her Majesty for rewarding distinguishel mili. tit) , services. In the garrison offices in the colonies last year, a sum of 15 8151. had been voted ; this year he should propose a sum of 15,838/. He would mention that under this head was included the 1 salary of the General Quartermaster at Malta, amounting to 136/. 17s. 6d. That item had formerly ap peared in the Staff Estimates, but as that officer had really no duty to perform, it had been thought better to remove it into the present estimate. The charge for the pay of retired general officers had, as might have been ex pected, gone on regularly decreasing. Last year the number of these officers amounted to 198, and the charge was 92,0001. This year the number amounted to 183, aid the charge was 85,000/. ; showing a saving of 7,0001. The next charge was for officers and vete rans retired on full pay. There was an increase under this head in consequence of the recommendations of the Naval and M loary Commisssion. It had before been considered expedient that no additions should take place under this bead until the whole expense should have been reduced to 38,000/. ; but the Naval and Military Commission had recommended that the t e'e ran corps should be immediately filled up but that no the expense had been reduced to 38,000/. Last year the estimates had been 57,3001. ; this year he should propose a vote for 67,500/. This would go on regu larly decreasing until it was reduced to 33,000/ ; and it was never afterwards to exceed that sum. In the article of half-pay a saving had been effected, although 20 Lieutienant-Color: els had received :00/. a year each, in addition to them helf•pay. Tile vote last ee m had been for 505,5001.—this year it was 497,500/. For pensions for wounds last year the vote was 142,9841. this year it was 141,048/. For pensions for widows I.lst year the vote was 127,300/, and this year it was 124,000/., showing a decrease of 350/. For out pen sioners for Chi Lea Hospital he had last year proposed a vote of 3,300/. ; he should this year propose to increase that vote to 10,000/., making 13,3001. It La I been for some time past in the contemplation of the Government to make a change in the manner of paying the Chelsea pensioners, which would, he trusted, be of great advantage to the pen sioners themselves, end to the well-being of society and of the country. Several communications had taken ph:co with the Chebea Board, and he believed the plan would very soon be adjusted, and as in that case funds would be wantel to set it in motion, he felt justified in asking an additional great for that purpose, but he did not be lieve that it wool I lead to any permanent addition to the public charges. The vote for superannuation amounted last year to 42,000/., this year it would amount to 43,000/. This increase was caused by tee reiular course of things, and one half of it had been owing to the return of Sir 'lnward Douglas to this country, as during the time that that Gallant Officer was Governor of the lonian Islands he did not receive his superannuation. In bringing forward these estimates he trusted he had clone so as briefly and as succinctly as possible.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He had purposely abstained from all exciting topics, for he believed that gentl-man on both sides the House, in discussing the Army Esti mates, were aetuated only by a desire to place the esta blishments of the kingdom on that footing which might most conduce to the well-being of the country. Mr. HUME would merely draw the attention of the House to the pledges of peace and economy which the present Government had given on taking office, and yet, notwithstanding these pledges the a-my was in creased by 43,000 men to what it was in 1822. lie would submit, that if economy was one of the pledges given by the Government, it was a pledge that had not been kept. He said this with no hostile feeling to them, only he protested against imposing on the country a war establishment in time of peace. The necessity for this had been occasioned by their misgovernment of Canada, and by their folly in going to fight windmills in Syria. That had been followed by the alienation of the French nation, and the consequ en t en d angermen t of the p eace of Europe. He regarded that alienation as ominous in the highest degree to the future peace of Europe, for as long as the French and English nation agreed the peace of Europe could not be endangered. They might have reduced their establishment to the 1 awest possible ebb consistent with a case of emer gency, and they might have kept it upon thet scale. It remained, therefore, t o b e seen w h et h er t h e Govern meat were justified in following the policy they had adopted. He regretted to see that Englishmen, borne down as they were by taxation, were obliged to keep up s e large a military establishment. In the last fi v e years, the army, navy, and ordnance had in creased three million; and a half; and he believed their establishments this year . w d o . uld n iaBm36ountrrtoh.four millions and a half more than it did daytan o c ef reckoning i the r ali an o d i s w e a s o e s f t a t h h i m s i n a h g t e: waster of su re, serious that the poorer classes, because misery they were inflictin g ~ was not far distant. Ministers ought to reflect on the importance and the man of fortune felt i of the country was taxed, satisfied until a property the fact was that under the presort system the industry not. The country would not be their in• t. c poor. tax was imposed, by which the wealthy would of would be cons pelted to contribute as large a proportion come towards the burthens of the c ountr y as h i l a i c e rc r a e s g e r d a ; e h l e t i ca la s d ee h o t pheedmtihliattarybeefsotracbthhsilaanteiointes smo would have been settled between this country an a m t t u l c r ' d h s America, but every thing seemed to have given nay to the Syrian question, and in consequence of this they had been unable to withdras the large force they had in America. He was sorry to see that matters did not look very peaceably between that country and England, but be believed that had resulted from the policy adopted in this country, which would have the effect of obliging the country to keep up a large military estab lishment at the expense of four or five millions a-year. Sir H. HARDINGE had listened with great atten tion to the speech of the Hon. Member for Kilkenny, and he agreed with him that if the expenditure of the country was to be in proportion to its difficulties in re spect to its foreign relations, it must be considerably increased. He regretted that there had been an in crease of expenditure since the Duke of Wellington and his Right Hon. Friend left office in 1830, but the ' House bad to consider whether the expenditure was necessary or not. He was sorry to differ from the Hoe. Member for Kilkenny with respect to; the Army Estimates, bet he thought those estimates this year did not go far enough, because the pressure upon the army in the colonies had been so very great, that if relief was not given, they would not be able to carry on any relief at all. Considering the situation in which the troops were placed in the Colonies, he was in hopes of seeing a larger estimate for the purpose of relieving them. Now what was the state of the army ? Why, including the troops on passage, the number of battalions abroad was 84, at home 19 ; and how, therefore, was it possible for 19 battalions at home to afford relief for 84 batta lions abroad ? That, however, was not all, for out of the 19 battalions at home, eight of them had only re turned from the Colonies in 1840 ; and the consequence was that out of the 19 only 11 were in a mili tary state of organisation ? Was that a state of things in which the army ought to be placed ? And, added to this, out of the 19 battalions there was not one that had beet at home four years. The Batt Ilion that had been just sent out, had been tea years in Jamaica, ten years in Mauritius, and twenty years in India, and now it was on its return to leda again, after being in this country only about three years. Ought such a state of things to exist in the British army ? were the regiments of the line to be condemned to almost perpetual banishment ? In fact, the state of the army was such at present, that unle;s some remedy was applied, a severe blow t, ould be in flicted upon the discipline of the army. He did not state this to encourage the Government to in creased expenditure, but be s tated it for the purpose of showing the defects of the system. They must, if they wished to have the army effective, establish a system by which the troops could return to this country, after they had had a sufficient quantity of service abroad. In 1837, when the rebellion broke cut in Canada, the peace establishment there was nine battalions, and ten more were very properly sent out upon that occasion. In India the establishrreet was 20 battalions, and now it was 23 battalions. In the Mediterranean there was an augmentation of two battalions, so that there was an excess of 13 battalions rendered necessary, in consequence of the foreign i ell tions of this country ; and if they went to any of the colen'es, they would find it impossible to make any alteration in their establishments. (Hrar, hear.) If they looked to the state of our aff.drs in India it was im. possible to say that there could be any rAuction ; and, considering the hostile feelings which prevailed on the frontiers of the United States, so far from a reduction, there should, if the Government meant to act with vigour, be as addition to the free in Canada. He di I not wish to imitate the conduct of the Members of Congress in making ugly speeches.—( Hear, hear.) It was tho less necessary to do so, because the claims of this country were supported by our Minister, Mr. Fox, in the most manly and v;garous manrer.—( Hear.) But he thought all par ties must admit that it would be highly imprudent under present circumstances to reduce our force in that county. —(H.. ar, hear.) It was not possible, with the present pt ice, that the relies should be properly carried on. For the last four years the ar ny had been so situate 1 as to re nler that impossible. What was the number abroad and the number at home ? The number abroad this year— (be spoke, of course, of the infantry of the tile, for by them it was that the pressure was felt, and not by the caval,y, including the troops on their passage)—was 60,000 ; the number at home was 26,400. The estimate only gave an increase of nine men ; but, f.r all the purposes of Great Britain and the Colonies, there was a diminution of 1,420 men. He was convinced that if the Noble Lord were to come f .raari and propose a supplemental vote of 5,000 men, no doubt that proposal would give great satisfaction to the army. He trusted the observations which, as a military man, be had thought it his duty to make, would induce the Noble Lord to take some early step towards remedying the evil of which he bad complained. Lord J. RUSSELL raid the objections made to this estima•e by the Hon. Member for Kilkenny aad his Hon. Friend were certainly of a very different nature: one com plaining that it was too small, and the other that it was unnecessarily large. He did not agree with either of those objections. The Hon. Member for Kilkenny complained of the increase since 1830, and he asked why it had been made. Without entering into any defence of the fereign policy of this country, he (Lord John Russell) thought the state of our foreign relations, and especially the state of Canada, was a sufficient justification of the increase. The Flon. Member for Kilkenny had rather a short way of de ciding these question?. He said that they had engaged in a war in Canada because they did not choose to yield the demands of those who were disaffected ; that they required an increase, because they were, through their own misconduct, on bad terms with Ame rica and France. The Hon. Gentleman always presumed that the Government of his own country must be in the wrong—namely, as compared with the French Govern ment, the United States Government, or with Messrs. Pepineau and Mackenzie.—( Hear, hear.) He ( Lord J. Russell) could not accede to this short way of disposing of the question. On a proper occasion he would bo prepared to show that the Government had throughout their transactions received the sanction of Parliament, and were justified therefore in asking fur the increase. The Hon. G_ntl_•man had stated that there were now, in. claiiag the army, navy, and ordnance, 130,000 men be longing to the regulmr forces of this country, which was an increase above the e tirnale of 1822 of 43 000, and of 25,000 above that cf 1830. With regard to the estimate SVOt with s'ances of the country at that titre. The circumstances of the country since that period, especially during the last three or four year?, had undergone a great change. Per sons were in the habit of saying that it was very extraor dinary that after 25 years of peace it should be thought necessary to have such large establishments. His ( Lord John Russell's) observation, looking to •he state of the worl 1 , and to the establishments proposed in other countries, was that that very long duration of peace was the very circumstance which made men estimate too highly and apprehend too little, the great and almost incalculable evils of war.—(Hear, hear.) Those who had seen war wcre best able to estimate the invaluable blessings of peace. After twenty-five years of peace it was far more difficult to preserve peace than it was at the termination of the:war.—( Hear, hear.) In a neighbouring country there had been lately an immense increase of war establishments. Orie item only, the construction of naval and military works, amounted to twelve millions sterling, whilst the speeches made at public meetings, and even is the Sonata of the United States', called upon the Government of this country to be on the alert. He might safely rest the proposed increase upon the state of our relations with Foreign Powers. But the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite complained, chiefly on the ground of the unfre quency of relief, that the pri posed increase was not large enough. He ( Lord J. Russell) could not be supposed to undervalue the services of the feritish army. He believed there raa no a -my in the world which made such exertions, not only when they were accompanied by the splendi I triamphs of war and the glory of victory, but such conti wed, perce wiring, and perpetual exertions in time of peace, to merit the approbation of their Sovereign and their country, under gciag the fat'gue of distant voyages, and suffering too often from unhealthy climate; and long absence from home. But the country often required those sacrificer end exea t ons ; and in such cases they were made without the least murmuring.—( Hear, hear.) The number of men employed fir home and colonial service, in 1830, was 81,164; in 1841-42 it was 91,363, being an iaeraaie of 10,000 men.—( Hear.) Since the year 1830 extra ordinary services had been performed by the army. Fr,m !even to eight thousand men had been sent to Canada in consequence of the ciiaturtancese It must be remembered that the climate of Canada was by no nee ins unhealthy. It was impossible, as the Hon. Gentleman had said, to reduce the force stationed at the Mater ti is. An addi tional battalion had been rent to Bermuda and two addi tional regiments to the Meeiterraaean ; but he t-usted that it would net be necessary to keep that additional force in those stations. With respect to India it should be re marked that the regiments which in the common course of events would have been ordered to return Some bad not been sent in consequence of the expedition to China. The general establishment for India was not altered, it st 11 consisted of twenty regiments cf the hoe. He believed there was no necessity for making an alte ration its the present system in India. When there were such demands as there bad been of late, there were, as the Hot. Gentleman said, a very small number of regiments at home ; the majority were abroad. But whilst there were six companies abroad, there were four at home; and for six ufficera abroad, four romaine I at horn , .. The proportion of men was GOO to 200, and of cffiotra six to four. It was net true, theref re, that the whole regiment was abroad. If they wished to have a dr eti be, 1 ieri would ea , kt Commander-in-Chief, Noble cbsnr ncl teauho requirent per Commander-in-Chief d. depots megFarair.nvnii endai.eumdcr: c : 7. Loi ,oirninaariee.dinfiwfci:rprthehargiionncoeupduhffeomtnas the oescedqbmrr Government e a alef l ii pse l ntl e rteae r edndg ui umt ohhefeeebo: number. tnitoschw pot e:eannsa: and.thusn more frequent relief, the better plan would seem is be to ure u yk e I es whicht t r the ably e of Welliagtin. The military reasons which were given by such men as Lord Hill and the Duke of Wellington led him to adopt the system which they recommended. But one of the consequences was, that there was greater hard ship in reality, and much greater hardship in appearance - with respect to the number of regiments abroad and of reei meats at home, and the frequency or infrequency of relief. Upon the whole, with the exception of Canada, there was no v ry peculiar or extraordinary demand upon the troops of this country. There always had been a very great de mand—a greater demand than there was upon the t-oops that decreed and of than t one of the consequences of armies of other countries, when in vuts, that while the of any other country. But c ci h n a a r t a i e ti t e e s ri a n i l i n e of g our armies that they campaizn, and ergagel a in rm e i a es r : h it ad ,as all th t e Le other of war. —( Hear. ) were as e fficient in time of peas ‘as in teat and disciplined med e w er so s mething like a Toe system adopted in Prussia and few countries was to have th e men in active service for a allow them to *go home. That for believed it years, and then body of mltia, but the discipline was, incomplete. Their service was, en the ec=alYvery, distin guished by its permanency and severity, an d h e would be found in the end the most advantageous system. There was one other point, namely the increase of five thousand men which had been voted last year, but that vote was not on the ground solely of disturbances at home, but to relieve some of the regiments on foreign service, and that was why no reduction of that number had been was 81,000 . men, in 1832 and Of late years the number certainly bad been proposed. 89,000, and then there was a re ductiontie 88,000, in 1840 it was 92,000, and in 1841-2 it was Oat that there had been i l increased, ai stewd io s r fB s oB o r, m oio e no y andelaBr3sotoit 80,000. In 1839, it amounted 91,300. It would be seen from v►ould agree to the vote of his therefore, the Committee woulw no great increase for the last three years, and be trusted, Right Hon. Friend. iT:roDvoingh(t_aedy amounted to 14,000/. There was a sum of 1001. now I reserved for fees, but these were merely small office fees .1 the imposition of which was rendered necessary to pre vent idle inquires being made and unnecessary trouble being given. A great increase in this charge was owing to the alterations in the Post-office. In his own department this increase amounted to to 1,0001., and in the Adjutant-General's to 335/. The increase in his own office was very great, for none of the letters to the War-ofUe being prepaid, of course they were all charged double.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) In the other expenses of his department the charges would not be greater this year than they had been last ; he ought at the same time, however, to state that he was not sure that if that etfmate had been produced for the first time that night he should not have proposed a small increase in the charges of his own establish ment, and that he should propose such an increase next year. A correspondence had been for some time going on between the War-office and the Trea sury for the purpose of eadeavouring to introduce into the War-office a system of book-keeping analagous to that in use at the Admiralty. By the introduction of the Italian system of bookkeeping by double entry at the War-office, the Secretary-at-War would be enabled each year to exhibit to the House a regular balance-sheet.—(Hear, hear.) He did not think, however, that that change could be effected without the employment of additional clerks in the War officte, and therefote it would be necessary Le him next year to propose an increase in that depart ;tent. He should not ask for any vote this year for the Royal Military College, the receipts from that institu tion being sufficient for its support, which was also the case last year. The next item was the Royal Military Asylum. He had last year promised the Hon. Mem ber for Kilkenny that he would do his utmost to reduce the expenses of that establishment. Since that time the Governor of the College at Southampton had died, and he bad thought it his duty to abolish that estab lishment, and to transfer the children to Chelsea. Last year the vote for the Royal Military Asylum had been 16,712/. ; this y ear it would only be 15,148/., so that t :ere was a:acing effected under this Lead of 1,5641. Since he was on ti.e subject of tl:e Royal Military Asylum, he would advart to in matter connected with that est ihl shment to which the attea ,eation of Use House hid last year been drawn by an Hun. Gentleman, whom he did not see in his place ; he recant the difficulty under which it was all •ged that the children of Protestaut Dissenters and Catholics were pl iced in alending fieir religious worship. He had drawn the attention of the authorities of the Asy lum to that subject, and he was happy to say that a . . THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY, MARCH 6, 1841. Sir ROBERT PEEL would certainly give his cordial su. - ,port to the proposition before Ole Committee, with a firm conviction on his mind that the demand made by the Exe cutive Government did not exceed the exigencies of their foreign serv'c e He should be exceedingly sorry if their proc clings would form a pretext fur any foreign powers to increase their forces, and there might be some justice in the remark of the Noble Lord, that tie long duration of peace did not necessarily indispose men to the recurrence of war. The present generation were not practically ecquainted with the horrors of war, and therefore they were not so much indisposed to encounter its calamities as those who had had practical experience cf its evils. He thought that those Governments and countries who were unnecessarily increasing their military force., made a very false estimate of the people whom they govt erned, if they supposed that there were not other evils besides the actual devastation of the country, which were the result of these expensite and unnecessary armaments. That, he had no doubt, would soon be felt by every Government ire Europe, and they would find that the enormous taxation by which these would so fetter the indus try, establishmentsa interfere wereferew uP i s tht Pr h c eiranquillity o f t h ese countr i es, that it would result in something Wee 1114 of actual colli sion with the people, and thereby convince them of the necessity of preserving the relations cf a tity and peace. ( Hear, h -ar.) The presetit state of tin ir finances might certr ioly he said to affect the wee they wet e called upon to give, and no one could contemplate with more regret than himself the growing deficiency in the revenue, which within the last three years a nounted t a f nut and a half millions. But that was no reason why they should not take timely precautions, although it rnieht be a good around far diapeising with superfluities. The uusatisfac tory sate of their finances could he no reason far neglect ing those proper precautions which would sate them tei fold the expense hereafter. —( jlt as.) fis saw nothing in V - eir present state, which would prevent them placing the nay l and military force of the country en a I roper footing. He certainly gave Lit vote with very impe feet means of information, and he never knew a time when they had such scanty inormation as to the real posiien in which the country was paced. What knew they of the state of their affairs in Central Aaia? What did tl.ey know of their prcs,:ects on the banks of the Indus? They kne ei not at what inst tnt they might be called on for an increased mili tary force in that qua-ter. With regard to the expedition to China, they a e.e in a state of utter ignorance and ha l no means of forming a judgment as to the result.—( Hear, hear.) Again, with regard to the Unite.' States, there was a strorg impression that the state of their relations in that %parer, did not admit of th ir making any reduc tion r f their military establishment. He had that impres siin, although he had no means of forming a con est judg meet. Not withst ;riding all that, they had been repeatedly i !- formed that every state a - idirincipa'ity on the face of the (Bath had gven them the most unqual:fiei assutasces of their desire to preserve their f :eadly relati):.s with this country ; and yet on too Continent they were raising their milit try establishments to 400,000 and 500.000 men, and neighbouring Powers were evoking their energies and re sources, to the detriment of commerce, industry, and civilization. He trusted those Governments would learn that they owed a responsibility to the permarent public opinion of the country, which would enable therm to resist such a step. If they were now to be involved in a war, they were going to be involved in it upon grounds that would never terminate. It would leas to long and exhausting mutual animosities, without any one intelligible object, and he should be sorry there were any of the glories of war attending such a struggle. He never knew a period in the history of Europe when there was less assignable or rational ground for hostilities than at present.._( Hear.) He trusted that that power of public opinion which was so inseparably connected with civilization and refinement, would put down and overpower the hot and hasty spirits who were so desirous of war. —( Loud cries of it Hear, hear.") H 3 said that as an Enelishman, because if they were compelled to go to war, then Foreign Powers would see that in this country the -e would he an tiler oblivion of all internal animosities and dissensions— ( Loud cheers)—and th t he (Sir R. Peel) could afford to forget all the councils he had ever f. iven for peace. They would se e that Englishmen would staad by thair ancient redutation, and prove to the world that the military name and repotatien of Great Britain remained as high as ever. —( Loud cheers.) That England aid Scotland, aye, and Ireland too—( Loud coeers)—thosa three great parts t f one Uoited Kingdom —were as ever indomitable—that the ir ancient prowess had not bean lessened, and that they ;sere ready to vindicate the honour and glory of the B itish name. —(Cheers.) So much fcr the general pi iciples on which he should support any increase, if it had been pro posed by her Majesty's Government. With respect to the midi iin to the naval force which had been so wisely made, he entirely approved of it, and little as his confidence was in their policy, ho should, if the interests of the country required ir, be prepared to give his ready assent to any vote for an increase of their present establishment. He did hope that the prospects which had cast a shade over the general tranquillity would shortly vanish. Independently of all these things, their duty towards the army should prevent there pressing too hardly upon then. Wheu he heard that a regiment had been 20 years in India, and only 10 years out cf 60 at home, he confessed he could not contemplate such a at tte of things without great regret. It was a'great evil to separate soldiers for so long a time from their native country. It was of immense importance, instead cf sending them to the Celonies where they mixed in a different state cf society, to have them for a hanger period at home. He should hail such an arrangement with great satisfaction. When he read the aec,unts of what had recently occurred in the United States, after orders ha I been sent out for the liberation and protection of Mr. M.Leod, and after the burning of the C roline had been openly av , wed by the Government, and when he saw what had since occurred there, while prcreaing the utmost horror of any interruption of their amicable relations, he M.Yil e 'ngertyhn d Jo n g . a f iiishonourable course by making any unjust conressions.—(Cheers ) He hoped they would n ver f trget the claims which the inhabitants of the North American Colonies had upon the mother country, and while he deprecated a war with that country, still the more the honour and the interest; of tie country were involved, the higher must be their feelings of indigna tion against injustice, and their determination to stand by the cause of their ceuntry, and insist that justice should be done to it.—( Cheers.) Lord HO WICK regretted exceedingly that he had missed the ea-ly part of the discussion. In the sentiments expressed by the Went Hon. Gentleman he fully concurred, and he was convinced that by whatever power the gen:ral peace was first broken, it would be compellei to submit to public opinion. He trust ad that the Government. would use their best exertions to promote the great commercial interests of the country, as the best means of averting the calamity of war which was at present impending ; hot if the country had no other alternative left it, he felt satis fied that that House would not hesitate to come forward and, merging all minor and party differences, take such steps as would best maintain the hon,ur and independance of the British name.—(Cheers.) With regard to the length of serci‘_e of the regiments abroad, he would re mind the House that in 1838 he had been authorisei by the Government, of which he then formed a part, to devise a plan for relieving the pressure upon the:iegiments abroad. Since then three years had passed away, and he regretted no steps had beea taken to carry that plan into effect. He did not wish to go into details. He thought there was ioconver.i,i.ce in discussing &tails of the number of men requi ed in particular parts of our dominions. Per haps he could hardly elver into that discussion without availing himself cf the information which he possessed, from having held office recently is the department to which the subj. et under discussion belongel. He would, therefore, avoid all discussion on the matter. But this plain, bread, and simple fact he would state, It appa, el on the Gee of a public journal, devoted to military matters, that the number of battalions sent abroad com pared with the number at home, instead of augmenting, sine the year 1838, had, on the contrary, been di minished. He had been referring that afternoon to a Journal which was devote.] exclusively to matters C.M obsei ved in that J n o% ct r e nll '‘ r i et h urn th s e of t tre fi e t r ia ' t 4: o(l l B o a r the he ßritish army on the Ist of March, and by that it appearei that only twenty co:110e ebatta'ions were now abroad. Sir H. 1-IARDINGE—Nine.een. 1838 the nu n i o nher muchf battalionsof period fall a below t senty.five. Thst was a vex- J . serious alteration with respect to the condition of the soldiers—an increase amounting to near one-fifth of th e reg i ments a b roa d a s compare Ito what it was these years ego. With respect to the 27th Regiment, so severe was the pre'sure of our service-, that that regiment, which returned from upwards of ten years' service in Jamaica to this conntry in Apr: l , 1837, must now be sent abroad for, probably, twenty years to India. That was a f.ct that nau.l carry conviction - with it to the minds cf Hon. Members of the pressure of the ser vice. His Noble Friend referred to the depit system. He (Lord II.) would not then enter into that question. It WAS ono of some difficulty. Every gentleman who ever considered the subject was of opinion that the system of depots was essential from the nature of our service. He (Lord 11.) had proved so in spite of the high authority which had been brought against him, and be was of opi. nion that modifications might be made in that system which would, with iut at all iaterfering with the objects of those depots, increase the facilities of making reliefs. If they adhered to the present system of depots all he (Lord H.) could say was, that the consequence of it would be that it would keep up the pressure of the troops, but if they did not take that mode some other one must be arrived at for relieving the troops. He thought that they ought deliberately to weigh all th e reasons for and against . the improvement of the depot system, and they were of opinion that the system ought to remain un altered, it was their duty to provide some other means of relief. His Noble Friend (Lord John Rus sell) was aware that these were hi; opinions, and that he did not bring forward it that place opinions which be had not advocated in a place of higher authority. His Noble Friend was aware that he (Lord Howick) agreed to the army estimates in 1839, on condition that some mode would be adopted of relieving the pressure on the British a-my. Vaiious measures were in agitation for that purpose. He did not say they were agreed to, but , c linty those estimates would raver have been moved were it not that he was under the impression tnat the pres sure of Vie British army would be relicved. He entirely concurred with the Right Hon. Member for Tamworth in the opi n ions h e ex p r e sse d o f t h e miserable short-si▪ ghted economy evinced in the management of that branch (the infantry) of the British army. No circumstance, he was convinced, more than anoth er te n d e d to rendar the service of the British army at the p resen t moment so unpopul a r as it was, than the fact that the relations of the men who enlisted in regiments of the line, under the present system in the army, considered that they would never again be hold them. It was that feeling, existing in the minds of the rel a ti ons an d f r i en d s o f t h ose c l asse s which supplied our army with recruits, that rendered our infantry service unpopular, notwithstanding the great pains taken of lat years to d o w h at was poss ibl e to i mprove the conditi▪ on of OUT troops. He would not enter further into that question at the pres ent moment. He would on ly s tate his great disappointment at finding the army estimate.; brought for ward three Years after the time when those measures of improvement were suggested, without there having been an; steps taken to accomplish those measures. He thcught it was the duty of that House to prove to the men who formed their army, and who underwent such severe service is cur colonies, that they would endeavour by some arra-gement to enable those men to spend a fair proportion of their time of st riice within this kingdom. Mr. MAC AUL A Y thought that the pressure of ser vice ou the troops at the present time was certainly severe and he concurred With the Noble Lord who bad just sat down, that m' atm ;should be taken to relieve the troops. But he Legg 'd at the same time to remi Id his Nolae Fii md, that the Go! . emment were not &together to lame fu• the imputations *Lich the Noble Lord had thrown out agaiost them, for not hiving relieved the troops of the pressure complained cf. Stibscquently to the time when the Noble Lord gave those promises, to which he ( Loid . Howick) had edve t d, five thousand'.additional troops were raised, and frr Oat measure two eiasons were assigned:—the dis turbed stet of the country, and the necessity orgranting some relief to the troops. 3 Happily one of thnei reasons, the disturbed state of the country, now no longer existei; and if they were only to lark to the internal aid. Supplied for the preserving the peace of the country,, they might well spare the additional five thousand, men to relieve the troops labroad. With the.:fiene ral principles which were laid down on "Ifte sub j-ct he (.Mr. Macaulay) fruity agreeJ. But he thought that if the country we e so tranquil as that they could spare not only every soldier but every policeman, it:would be impossible to prevent it pressure on the troops to a greater or less extent. The question for the Government to consider was whether it was reasonable in the :present state of things that the system now in existence Should continue or not. Captain BO LDE RO did not think that the number of troops was et al sufficient fpr the exigencies of the-coun try. He would ende :your; to have a Select Committee aepoin•ed tot •ke offthe warunt which altered the pensions. That warrant seas working dr trimentally to the, ervice. Lord ARTHUR LENNOX thought the present would be a go o d opportunity to inquire of the. Master ' General of Ordnance, whither it was intended to issue percussian &clocks to the: army, as the old locks were found t r be v .re inefficient: Sir H. VIVIAN said he thought the question would have been more appropriately put when the Ordnance Estimates were Wire the' House ; and as he hoped to bring them forward on Monday, he would beg "leave to defer answering the question to that dale With respect to what had just fallen front Hon. Members, he admitted the pressure on tie army, and thought the system'of reliefs was a mistaken one, and one which required well looking into, and new arrangereent.• M-. MA CAUL A Y said that during the last year a measure hat hen adopted, which, although it did not facrilL tate. the relief carps would greatly facilitate the rel:ef of indivi Si- U. HARDINGE sail he quite agreed with what had fallen from the Noble ',Ord (Lord Howick), and was f ee,ly aeisfied with the result of the debate. He agreed vii h the Master-General of the Ordnance, that he thought 4be eh ,!e system of reliefs ought to be examined; but he hoped it woul i not be thought that any blame attached to Quartermaster-General, whose particular duty it was to attend to the reliefs. Ho was surd that no officer in the service had performed his duty more faithfully than the Qua-termaster- General. Sir DE LACY EVANS said be differed a little in opinion as to the tone adopted on this subject by the Right Hon. Gentlemen, which, however, he attributed alto gether to a zeal for the service ; but he did not think it quite consistent with the existing law to argue the question as if it was a grievance to the army.— ( Hear, hear.) Everybody admitted the advent ige of a good system of rel'ef ; but he did not think either efficers or men felt the inconvenience of the present sys tem in the degree intimated by the tone adopted in the House ; and if it were so he would suggest the propriety of not adopting such a tone. He merely wished to throw it out as a sugeest'on. Sir H. HARDINGE said he was surprised that the Gallant Officer should censure him for interference when he rose as a Member of that House to discharge what he connived to be his duty to the service, lie was not aware thrt there was anything objeetionable in the tone be had adopted, and as he considered it to be a calm and proper one, he hoped, whenever he should egein choose to exercise his right as an independent Member, it would be in the same tone as thae be had used on the present occasion. Sir DE LACY EVANS sail, the Right Hor. Gen tleman Lai entirely mistalten him. He (Sir De Lacy Evans) was not aware that he had sail one word about the interference of the Gallant Officer in the affairs of the army.—( He, r, hear.) He had merely said, that he be liLvei the Gallant Officer was actuated by zeal for the service, and good motives, but that he (Sir De L. Evans) objected, as he had a right to do, to the tone which he had adopt d, which he thought was not calculated to excite good feeling in the army. He might have been in error, but that was his opinion. —( Hear, hear. ) Af er a few words from Sir H. VERNEY, which were not heard in the gallery, Mr. HUME said, he wished to offer a little advice to the Secretary at War as to the mode of remedying these complaints, which he thought be could convince the House were owing to mismanagement, end not to be reme died by increasing our forces Our army consisted of 92,000 men, 46,000 of whom were at home. There were quite sufficient for relief, if all had their regular turns , of service, which he thought it was but fair and proper they should have. Afar a few worth from Mr. HAWES, Colonel RAWDON took the opportunity of noticing the great diminution of force in Ireland There were now 8,00 , 1 rnea less in that country than in the year 1830. Toe vote was then agreed to, Tt.e next vete was fur a sum of 3,510,77.11... for the nay .: u once ingnoM Mr. HUME asked if the sum of 10,7951., which ap peared in the estimate, under the head of postage, was for p')state alone ? Mr. MACAUL AY said that it included the expense of s•ationary and other charges. The vote was then agreed to. On the motion that 167 449/. be gran:ed for the pay of staff officers on foreign stations. Mr. HUME said that, as no one had thought proper to bring before the House the conduct of Lord Hill in re spect to the 1 lth Dragoons, which bad caused great ex citement, and given great scandal throughout the country, he thought that was the proper opportunity for callieg the atternion of the House to the subject. Although the meteor had not been &Hurled to in the House, public opinion had been vtrongly expressed upon it. The Press on all sides had done its duty. He thought it right to declare his opinion that the conduct cf the Secretary at War hid been highly culpable, seeing how public feeling had been out raged and irri ated : and what had been the conduct of the Commander-in-Chief towards Lord Cardigan, who had commanded his regiment in such a way that no min, having the frelirga of a gentleman, could serve under h•m. He ( Mr. H.) blamed Lord Hiil more than Lord Cardigan--( Hear and a laugh)—for his laxity in some eases, and his severity in others.—( Hear.) He should like to sea a return laid on the table of the House of how many officers had left the regi.nent in consequence of Lord Car digae's conduct, and how ma ry had got leave of absence, rather than they should be allowed to sell out or throw up their commissions, which would bring additional odiam upon the corps.—( Hear, hear.) Conduct more likely to injure the service of the country he had nnver seen in a long life of attention to public effiirs, and it was his conviction that no officer could enter the regiment under Lord Cardigan, without writing the word "slave " upon his forehead. ( Hear, hear.) He had brought to a court-martial an officer of twenty six years' standing, who had received the appro bation and commendation of every superior under who.n he had served, until Ire came into contact with Lord Car digan. There had been a court martial upon another officer, and he would ask any honest man who attended to the proceedings whether he did not anticipate a different result?—(blear, hear.) He thought the whole conduct of the Commander-in- Chief was unjust and injurious to her Majesty's service ; but be did not so much blame that Noble Lord as the Secretary at War, at whose door he thought id! the blame should be laid.---( Hear and a laugh.) Mr. M ACA UL Y regretted that a subject which bad excited so much irritation throughout the country should be brought foraarl under present eircumstanee;.—(llevr, hear.) He had not now an op portunity of enteri,g into the matter fully. But he would endeavour, without g ving offence to any one, ts state tte pr'neiples which governed her Majesty's Ministers in the course they hid pursued, and which, he had no doubt, would be approved cf as soon as the irritation upon the subject should subside. In the first place he would ask the Hon. Member fur Kilkenny, whether there was any thing in the whole matter whereupon to raise an imputation ag hilt her Majesty's Government?—( Hear, hear.) Was Lord Cardigan a partisan of the Government? —( Hear, hear.) Ministry could not he secured of party f .vour to that officrr.—( Hear, hear.) But were they to be charged with cowardice ?—( Hear, hear.) Why ? There was no difference of opinion amongst the press. Was there any difference of opinion amongst the public generally?— ( Hear, Lear.) Could Lord Cardigan go on a railway train without being hissed by the passengers ?—( Hear.) Could he go into a theatre without having the whole audi ence set upon him?—( Hear, hear.) Could Probart, after the G•ll'e-hill murder, or Hare, after the trial at Edinburgh, be more hunted down?—( Hear, hear.) Was it cowardly of the Government not to take adven t .ge cf that unpopularity of a political oppocent ? ( Hear, hcar)—especially when the matter bad been de termined by a General who had led the British armies in many a field, and had filled the office of Commander. in- Chief under several administrations of different political parties.---( Hear, hear.) That distinguished Geiveral was decidedly of opinion that there was no case before him for insthit itirg a court-martial upon Lord Cardigan. Was the Government then to put him upon half-pay, or to cis. miss without any court-ma Aim ?—( Hear, hear, he•r ) Were they to put him upon half-pay as a punishment ? (Chaers.) He (Mr. M.) would never ag ee to the prin. ciple that half-pay was to be a pun:ailment —( Cheers) —because half-pay was intended partly as a reward fur past and partly at an earnest for future services. —( Loud chi e-s.) The alternative then was dismissal from the service or a court-martial : and it was the opinion of Lord Hill that there was no ground for a court-martial.—(H ear ,. h ear.) The Crown had, and in paw his °n, ought to have, t h e prerogative of dismissal from the service without gi v i ng a reason. But it was a prerogative which ought not to be exercised. He would ventu re to say that this was the'first time in the history of this country in which the Minister of the Crown had not dismissed from the service of the Crown tet unpopular Nobleman who always voted against them. He wculd give no judgment on Lord Cardigan's conduct; all he contended for %YU, that the Government had been throughout actuated by the purest motives, and he was sure before many months should have elapsed that those who were now the loudest in their condemnation would admit the justice of their conduct.—( Cheers.) Mr. HUME had not blamed the Government for not dismissing Lord Cardigan without a court-martial. He had again and again declared his opinion that no officer ought to be dismissed without a court-martial; but was there no alt ernat i ve ? C ould they not h ave i nst i tuted a Court of Inquiry to ascertain if those complaints were well or ill founded ? An inquiry of that sort would have satisfied the public mind. But Lord Cardigan was one of the aristocracy—one of that body who were, as the people believed, always shielded by those in power of whatever acts they might be guilty. He ad mitted that the Press had in relation to this.affair been in many instances ridiculously extravagant; but the Right Hon. Gentleman was mi-taken if he thought he could set public opinion at defiance. Had he been some subaltern officer, an inquiry or a dismissal vvoull have been the con sequence. He complained of the Government for not having instituted a Court of Inquiry. Lord JOHN RUSSELL would only say one word as to the Court of Inquiry. Each one of the facts had been inquired into by Lord Hill as they had arisen. Every one must believe that Lord Hill had acted iinpartially. and after each case had been inquired into by him, any further inquiry would have been contrary to the rules of the army. He did not believe that Lord Cardigan hal derived any advantage from his rank or coLnections. On the contrary, he believed that conduct such a; his would have been passed over by the press and the public with very little notice in a mere simple Lieutenant-Colonel of a Dragoon regiment —( Cheers)—who did not happen to be a Peer of the realm, and from attacking whom no great degree of notoriety could have accrued. So far from his rank having shielded him, he thought it had only contributed to increase the public excitement against hint, and to give weight and magnitude to many charge=, which, in any other case, would have been thought fri volous.—( Cheers , . ) Lord HO WICK had not anticipated that that painful subject would have been brought under the attention of the II ruse that evening. Ho did not think the answer of his Noble Fr7ead altogether sati fattory. He meant no strictures on Lord Hill, for in such a case tie Com mander-in-Chief had doubtless consulted with and been guide I by the Government, and therefore they only were responsible. He agreed that it would be the highesi. injus . ice to dismiss an officer without a court-martial, and alto that nothing could be more improper than to place an officer on half-pay as a punishme:A. In a former un happy transaction relating to Lord Cardigan, he could not but think a great error had been committed in placing him upon the half-pay list, from the consequences of which they were at the present moment in some measure suffering. He thought that had been a most injudicious determination that hid been come to in the case of C ap'. Wathen to place Lord Cardigan on half-pay without hav ing given him an opportunity of being heard in his de fence. He did not think his Nobly F. lend had given any reason for the non-apointmeot of a Court of Inquiry. Nothing was more common than the institution of such a Court, in cases in which the state ti a regi i eat was unsatisfsc ory, in which the officers did not live in har mony togefter, aid in which the discipline was not credit able to the regiment. He did not doubt but that Lord Hill had adjudiczted rightly in each of the cases which had been suhmitte i to him, but the frequency of those disputes rendered some inquiry into the general system of the regiment necessary in eider to ascertain whe'her those frequent quarrels had beet' occasioned by any want of temper or discretion on the part of the Commanding Officer. He could not forget the court-martial in the case of Captain Wathen ; and the sub,equent restoration of Lord Cardigan to fill-pay and the command of a regi ment made it necessary that an inquiry should be insti tuted in order that the public might be convinced that full and ample justice hal been done to all parties Further than this, it was notorious that when Captain Reynolds was brought before the court-martial, he pleaded in extenuation great provocation.. He (Lord Howick) thought that the court-martial bad acted properly in excluding the evidence with respect to the provocation. If there had been a viol ation of di-cipline on the part of an officer which no provocation could jur tify, that might have been aground for the Crown extend• ing its mercy , but it was no part of the duty of the Court martial to inquire into it. He thought, looking at the high character of all the o ffi ce r s in the regiment, i t was impossible that what had taken place should have been passed over without inve,tig vion.—(Cries of "Hear.") He thought the c curse that had been adopted was highly unfortunate for the interests of the British ar my—( Hear)--and if Lord Cardigan's conduct had been such as he was willing to believe it was, he had been most seri.usly ill u. •y withholding the inquiry. He believed that such would have been most satisfact or y t o the army ant t - nation at large. For these reasons, it appeared to him, the course th a had been pursued in this case was not satisfactory, and was net calculatA to pro. mote the real interests of the British a-my. Sir H. VIVA N had heard the speech of the Noble Lord who had just sat down with regret. The Noble Lord had blamed Lord Hill for not bringing the case of Lord Car di4an before a Court of Inquiry. Ha nought that Lord Hill had acte.l in the only manner he could have done, and ho believed that Lord Cardigan could hardly hare acted otherwise than he had done. He had a high opinion of Lord Cardigan as an officer, and at the very time that this matter was going on, he had placed a son of his in that very regiment, and that alone he thought would prove the feeling he entertained towards Lord Cardigan. He was sorry to hear what had been stated that night by the Noble Lord. Mr. HAWES regretted that the subject had not been brought forward by a military man. It was said that there were no means of inquiry in that House. According to that, officer of er officer might be driven from his regi ment. and no redress be obtained. He believed that, had not the commanding-officer possessed some other interest hut that which at , achel to his office, the result would bare been different. There was one way of treating the person who had suffered under Lord Cardigan which he thought had he ,n omitted. He regretted that the constitution of the army had not admitted of gi:ing redress to the officers serving under Lord Cardigan. Sir 14 14 A P hi.] been said by t Noble L.:rd the Secretary for the ColmieF, and by the Right Han. Gentleman the Secretary at War. The accusation in the present case was ag.inst Lord Hill rather than against Lord Cardigan. He thought the statement regarring Lord Cardigan was very exaggerated.— (" Hear, Ivar," from Colonel Sibthorp.) He thought there had been a cabal in the reg,m• nt. Wren Lord Cardigan joined the regiment in India, the fir.t month a'ter his arrival he was ,as , ailed by the public press. The Gallant Officer then referred to an attack which had bean made in one of the Evening Papers, and stated, that upon Sir Henry Fane complaining to the editor, he udeniited that the attack proceeded from an officer of the 11th Dragoons. He could show by various other cases, did time permit, that Lord Cardigan was treated in a manner equally questionable. Lord HOWICK said that if proof were wanting of the necessity for inquiry, it was furnished by what had been stated by the Hon. and Gallant General,—( Hear, hear.) With regard to the. form of instituting an inquiry, it had not been denied either by the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of War, or by the Master-General of the Ord nance. In the former irihunal the same mistake had been made as in the recent one, the matter was hushed up and put an end to wi!hant being thoroughly sifted. Sr DE LACY EVANS said no one could be sur prised, when they considered how delicate the matter was, that no mi itary man had brought it before the House. The allusion to what. had taken place in India, tended greatly to strengthen the view which ha I been taken by the Noble Lord the Member for Northumberland, as to the necessity for inquiry. M. HUME ei I not blame Lord Cardigan at all, hut he blamed the conduct of the officers of the Horse Guards and the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Macaulay). The vote was then agreed to. The folloaing votes were then proposed and agreed to : 79,7151. for the payment of officers. 15,1481. for defrko-g the expenses of the Royal Mili tary Asylum. 15,8391. for defraying the charges of allowances for dis tinguished services. 133,0001. for the paymnt of genera officers. 67,000/. for defraying the charges of allowances to re. duced 3nd retired officers. 60 608/. fur defraying half-pay allowances. 142,000/. f r ponsions to officers' wid,,wy. A vote of 42,000/. for superannuations and retiring al lowances was then agreed to. The CHAIRMAN then reported progress, and obtained leave to sit agein on Monday. Lord J RUSSELL said that on Monday he should move the Order of the Day for going into a Committee of Supply, when he hoped the Master-General of the Ord nance would be able to move the Ordnance Estimates. Col. SIBTHORP inquired of the Under- Secretary for the Hume Department whether a gentleman named Vizard was appointed Solicitor for the Home-office ? Mr. F. MA UL E answered in the affirrratiie. Colonel SIBTHORP then gave notice that on Mon day he would move for a return of a copy of the warrant for Mr. Vlzald's appointment—of the amount of his s‘,lary—and the allowances made or payable to that indi vidual. Mr. FOX MAULE said he would bring up the return on Tuesday. CoIoneISIBTHORP gava notice that on Monday he should move for a return of the number of convict., distinguishing the age and sex, who had bees transported beyond the seas during the last seven Sears; also a sim lar return of those who bad not been sent out of the country, made up to the latest possible period. Th Lease and Relelse 8.11 then passed through Com mittee, and was rde. ed to be read a third time on M nday. The other Orders of the Day sere then disposed of, and the House adjourned at One o'Clock until Monday next. PARLIAMENTARY BUSINESS. NOTICES GIVEN AT THE PRIVATE BILL OFFICE. THURSDAY, MARCH 4. 1. Abingdon Road,—Com riittee on Bill, March 12, at one. 2. Oak wood and Argoed Coal and Iron Company, —Committee on Petition, March 15. 3. British India Sugar Company,—Com. on Petition, March 15. 4. Britannia Life Assurance Company,—Committee on Bill, March 12, at one. 3. Whitby Improvement,--Committee on Bill, March 19, at one. e. Liverpool and Crosby Road,-- Committee on Petition, adjourned till March 11. 7. Brighton and Shoreham Road,—Second Reading, March 8 8. Barnstaple Roads,—Committee on Bill, March 12, at one. 9. South Western Railway (No. 2),—Com. on Pet., March 15. 10. Olveston Inclosure,—Committee on Petition, March 15. 11. St. Marylebone Paving, &c ,—Committee on Petition, March 15. 12. Drogheda Harbour,—Committee on Petition. March 15. 13. Mersey Dack Dues Exemption,—Com. on Petition, March 13. 14. Preston and Longridge Railway,—Com. on Bill, Mar. 12, at one 16. Ipswich Docks,—Second Reading, March 8. COMMITTEES ON PRIVATE BILLS APPOINTED BY THE COMMITTEE OF SELECTION. I. Whitby Improvement Bill, referred to Mr. Bernal, Mr. Aaron Chapman, and the Hon. W. Duncombe. 2. Preston and Longridge Railway Bill, referred to Mr. Bernal, Sir Hesketh Fleetwood, and Mr. Townley Parker. The meeting of the Committees cn the above-mentioned Bills, is fixed for March 12, at one o'clock. The Earl and Countess of Harrington are stay ing at Harrington House, having returned last wee k from Brighton. Th e N o bl e E ar l h a s quite recovered from his Viscountess Palmerston has issued cards for soirees to-day, and on the 13th and 20th inat. MORNING COURT OF SEWERS FOR WEST . . MINSTEkt. AND PART OF MIDDLESEX. scw We A st g m e i n n e s r t a e l r, C & o c. u , rt wa o s f ye S s e t t e v r e d r a s y f l o i r eid th a e t t C he ityoffiant.ed L missioners for Sewers, Greek-street, Soho, a t twelve o'cl oc• e The usual routine bus nes s o f the Court having be en g °ll through, done Mr. HERTSLET, the Clerk, drew the attention of the to the motion of Mr. Gall y Knight, in the Hoiise of Corninuns: for an ad tress for copies of the Decrees made by the Colinn!!!., sioners for the rate in the Ranelagh and Counter's-creek w tricts, but as it was stated that no order had been Made in CO The Clerk then drew the the matter du attention p d the Court o . powers proposed to be given to the Commissioners o f t ~, of i t h h e e r t and Forests, in relation to Sewers, by the Bill now before rni . liament, for making a new street continuous with Long Acre . The CHAIRMAN said the clause had been drawn up accer_dt ing to his suggestio n when before the Committee last )se and the Court expressed themselves satisfied with its enactment;' Mr. A'BECKETT moved—That the Marquis of NormattiA be requested to introduce into the Bill, entitled "An A c i . e the better drainage and improvement of buildings i n :11 towns and villages," a clause to exempt from Sewers-rnte_d Churches, Chapels, and other places of religious worships and • all other places and buildings now exempt from Pe°' aced Church -rates, by Act 3 and 4 Wm. IV., cap. 30. lie ask rd for no more than the Legislature had already done with r e gl. , . to Poor and Church-rates. Whatever might be the c ase WI: regard to Churches, Di s senting Chapels, were eertainhil. liable to Sewers-rate, which was undoubtedly a hardshiP ; to thought. he had defined his meaning sufficiently, by referring t the Act of Wm. IV. His proposition would be following t°ne the principle of the connection between the Poor-rate ana,_ea. Sewers-rate which the Legislature had already establis ci n b d His proposition was not the giving up of any princip l e an , A g e the attention of the Legislature at the time of passing .lde d been drawn to the subject no doubt they would have tnc l ' Sewers-rite in the exemption. Mr. PERRY secerfded:the motion. Mr. ADEI said that large majority of the Commist n b er i: had decided that ch ur ch es were li a bl e to Sewer-rates , au nt e d• motion went to shoW that the Commissioners were not to carry out their own decrees. It would not remove the di culties under which they laboUred, nor would it have the ne_t. contemplated by the mover, for the Act itself was liable to t , " n i constructions. It was so loosly worded that the latter 14 1 1 4 the Act defeated the former. Ile should like to know to wo" of buildings that Act applied. If he derived a profit from snood that species of property the Act did not apply, and he sr-74 like to know where the property of the sort was to be fo un either in churches or chapels, from which a profit was h e s derived by pew-rents or otherwise. He believed that chnr .i e he as well as chapels were liable to sewer-rates, and thought this moti,n would only occasion dificult,. The only way f or th em t o procee d was to go on until tn.°, attention of the Legi , lature should be drawn to the subje!L' and they should pa ss an Act either exempting such property fw rfwee rat..ability, or givin g th e C omm i ss i oners power to enf their decrees. It wa s un j us t. that churches or chapels froth which a large Income. Was derived should be exempt , and the poor cottager should be taxed. He should not suppor t motion. a talc* Mr. JOSEPH BROWN considered the motion did not n of the uncertainty of the wordinn. of the Act, inasmuch went to the positive exemption or churches, chape ls, an 0 01 d be of religious worship. He c e rt a inly h o p e d the motion : re ji, carried. The exercising the power of rating places (n the gious worship now, for the first time, was in fact saying former Commissioners had neglected their duty. These bu en a lags were all established for the good of the communitp_rnea they ought not to be taxed. The r at e could not be ea ° do without going to law, which would be an expensive burden on the district. As the power had so long lain dortun°' • was most ungracious to enforce it now. , ; „ ii in Mr. JOSEPH FULLER considered this merely a motion oes arrest of judgment ; it was asking them to upset the we r di f, of Tuesday last. hy had they involved themselves the.h.r. ficulty at all ? and that would be the first question Lord _7., manby wo , :ld ask them. He would ask them if they b ril l e one case established their right to assess there churches; would move an amendment to the effect that it was enl i ;i st l • cessary for the Court to adhere, as heretofore, to the pr c assessments, and all these buildings would he exempted' The amendment, not being seconded, fell to the ground' to Mr. WILLOUGHBY thought it the duty of the Legisa in c f: u rt consider what p ro pe r ty oug ht t o b e exemp t, an d that the it . had nothing t o d o b u t t o a d m i n i s t er th e l aw as they fow l, ' „ Neither did he think L or d N orman by' s Bill a proper ell; which to engraft a clause o f thi s ki n d. When they fe n° o e difficulty in carrying nut the law, t hey would have a goo d r ids to go to the Legislature with far relief. He did not agree with Mr. Adey's construction of the Act alluded to. e ty The CHAIRMAN thought they could with perfect propr i In submit to Lord Normanby the question of churches now. acting as they had done the Court had only done .their duty carrying out the law, and that duty having been a most n!:4 dioas one, they might ask to be relieved. What they done had been done merely in carrying out the presentmeatto the Jury. It you'd have been more judieious perhaPt o g t have drawn Lord Normanby's attention to the subject wit' ne j expressing any opinion on it.. In whate ve r they did, he b ct r the Court would maintain its dignity. Mr. GRACE should oppose the motion in its present shr: Mr. BEACH wou'd have supp or t e d suc h a motion t lie ti 4 months ago, but wishing to support the character of the C°„., a for consistency, and what he believed to be the right renal of the Statutes, he must oppose the motion. There w i tge clear distinction between the Se w e rs '- ra te, involving ""t e , outlay, and applicable to an extensive district, and a Poo r-rs involving no outlay, or a Church -rate, applicable only to r: ‘, rish. If a church was built upon a piece of land, which e 5 been previously liable to Sewers'-rate only, should it ue rt he empted 'o render more profitable the church patronag e person who had the presentation of the living? de' Mr. J. Witern considered that as large reve nues wer e to , rived from churches, they ought to be charged Sewers'-ra ot out of justice to the inhabitants of the district. He could support the principle of the motion. c art Mr. T. DvER said the question was, whether th e °on should re-establish itself in the public es ti m ation, or P oo floundering in the way it had done. The object of he in° was to do an act of justice. He denied that the Court li d suming to itself the power of legis'ation by this motion• f t he merely threw out a suggestion . for the con sideration ° the '4l Home. Secretary, without giving any opinion whatever 0 0 a id u. hi 7A I: f I lol ;;r. A T a' . l::°E' D ‘7 l Ig E n a :aal d i n"o warrantll: b el c" o a y r t'r h ev e si' t lei e l l e r ni nggshitexe o sc w Ci!ge o ons u mi ladr Commissioners s n a loio d nnPe fi re. : r ' is e ) e otherrwt , Y y " e Commissioners to join him. He would not sign for one , s ",i under the indemnity of the Court. He hoped the 01°-° would be carried by a large majoritv. t i s sre Mr. A'BECKET replied, and the . Court divided, whe n - appeared— For the motion Against it .Alajority against the motion . Mr. C' that after • -••• • *** the Cour t .r. k;HALMERS said, that after the decision which • to g had just come to, he should no t p ress hi s mo ti o n, req o64 d ie the Marquis of Normanby to introduce a clause exemptingaila Royal Pa!aces, Houses of Par!iiment, Courts of Law , other public buildings from Sewers-rates. to-det Sir John Hanslcr had give n no ti ce o f a motion for that for the future the Sheriff be directed to summon a. s l ) ` - 0. jury on all occa,ions ; but Sir John not being present wur,"'" motion was called on, it dropped, as a matter of course. ' The Court adjourned at Half-past Four o'Clock. SURREY ELECTION. TO THE EDITOR Or THE SUN' h SlR.,—The Tories are as sharp as sharpers can be—t" ° ghe for Reformers. May I be t o ca ll your at t ent i on to one ° printed poll books at th e l as t S urrey e l ect i on , w h e re ~ ill th see 74 vote, made out of shares in Putney-bridge ; this be t , st . is part in Surrey, and pa r t i n Middl esex . Wi I not another election apply equally to ea c h cou nty? As a eci, men you will see, viz.:— For 1-20th of a freehold share in Put n ey -b r idge, Sir n° bet' Harry Inglis, No. 7, Bedford-square. e; To another p rson, 1-20th of a 30th of a freehold s he ha lf another 1-10th of one half of a 30th freehold share: agai n ' of a 1-10th of a 30th freehold share, and so on. A FREEHOLDER IN suR--. N.B. There are more equally curious matters in this Fr"' poll book, but one thing at a time. March 4, 1841. TO THE EDITOR OF THE SUlr• „, Sir,—You would oblige at le a st one o f y our r eaders by sei ting the following shot t paragraph in your paper. I am, Sir, your obedient servant, ANTI-SECTABIAN . TUE ONLY TRUE RELIGION IN THE WORLD. I l e Sole Consignees, Dr. Pusey and Company, Oxford• consignees have a very anxious desire that the public g ene t i e e, 3 shou'd possess the aevantages, both present and firosne'c liere _ accruing from the possessi,n of this commodity, and a re t it s fore determined to spare no trouble in order to secure for large and wide circulation._ A to Agents. Manufactured at the University, Oxford, where (oilers ro -st be addressed prepaid. N.B.—An imme nse s t oc k o f bi gotry, i nto l eran ce, and c tarianism always on hand, and sold at a moderate price. EXTRAORDINARY PRESENCE OF MIND .--- ; The Rou en Journal recounts the foPowing terib'e 110'; dent whi happened a few days ego to M. Nalw le ' t Gallet, Memher of the Council o f P ru d'hommes, of that town :—" Orserving a trifling derangement in part ()fr, engine at his eltal:lishment, at' Mont-Riboudet, trie d by rectify it without stopping its motion, but was eaug",,,fy the sle ye of his blouse, and his left arm was Inst il :6. wrapped like a ribbon round the axle, and Li' ",foo whi led round repeatedly, re,ei,i..g the most s , v .re es widow, particularly in one of his legs, which was in CO stunt friction. Although th e mac hi ne ma d e forty o c°- ti .us in a minute, lf. Gullet retained sufficient pre aue " of mind so too bend his head as to save i t a t e ach turn 11.00 being crushed betw e e n th e mac hi ne an d t h e ce iling. 'h,, b , e b re e the space was too small to a ll ow i t to p ass . One 0, 1 0 workmen made as attempt t o r e l ease him, bet Was!„-ny caught, and would have suffered the same fate the engineer.. hearing their cries, stopped the movcif'„ M. Gullet was t a ken awa y i n th e mos t deplorable c°ll ~ tine, his arm being broken into f o ur o r five different par 50 Notwithstanding the number and extreme gravity of t i injuries, his surgical attenda n ts e nt• rta in hopes twt I t , 4, ° 11 of saving his life, but of restorirg him to the us e I his limbs." A ~;% of STEEPLE CHASE NEAR PARIS.--13. p• 5,0001. f r horses of all ages aid countries , for a ste'P e , ► chase, to be run between the ht and 10th f n est 01. has been iroc;aued by the Pa Jcckt y Club. The o le lowirg era t! e c waiitions :—lhe entrance money is t , he 300 f. ; the weight 75 kilogrammes (llst. 10110,) 9 distance from two and a half to th r e e miles ; the expo-bee to be paid out of the prize and subscription more) ; t . t last horse to pay the entrance r f the second. Th rle mil or be five entran'ees. and thr, , e hor er at the least t i s tart, rs no chase ; the ri:.'ers to be ge ol .ri en, who are re'„)Lr-r e je of the I,ekey Club, o f th e C ere l e de Plinio'', ther. Agric le, the Cerele Mmannartre(Ancien Code), 0° of the French an d foreion amie: a,d navies, and la de do bees of such forei gn c l u bs as the Judge, the M ar q uis Val.tte, may declare ekiblr. Ent antes may be do by letter, addressed " Aux Cummissaires des COUtECS la Societe d'E ne ouragement, No. 2, Rue G ran g e Bate" here, Paris," before ten in the ever ing of the 15:h . (nciosing th e 300 f. Th e h orses m ust be named before ten in the evening of the 25:h inst. e ld ._ O a t Windsor on the body of Lieutenant Ellis, f e 6 IsQuEsT.--On Wednesday an inquest was h Royal Rifles, who expired at the Infantry Barrreks. t bta , morning. It appeared in evidence that be hal ( 1 3 , laboured under eimmely bad health, suffer in g aoe'e a from chronic disease of the liver. He was alw a y s on goo_. terms with his brother officers, and no cause could b e e as e _ signed for his committing the ac.. Verdict, caused ceased destroyed himself in a fit of insanity, taking an over-dose of laudanum for the purpose °f .10 viating the pain of a complaint under which be was labouring." 11 ,'.. •