The Sun. — London, England, 1828-07-08 00:00:00

V.)• secreting put into tO i Holbert'', _ The prr, ner, in 114' The prisons tern were The 10 4 ! y Zschatit , ination, h be worlteo,' but fertile C searching' ten request ' em. d where 01 , opportuaiv up , the4 l4 Ie away,•bd o the indic t ' I charged °/, by the Po i onvicted jection e indictee° . ling a lette ( use or Ofli Ce' tter Was el l ovsd " fro° ict the post" En. ?nutirs rst objectio l übjection,' l l be con;true th .respect never bee newly neve f Pest-ofice, ury . returne d tment, wick e of a lettef, chate indietmeni Wasp, val l 'um of nine of a letter. he first srist the prisoae 'aid 9d," wi t fact proveg into his pol !rs,but etatt t behind ell ed after i gs nto the bbe , after a loog lined Lim• ntage motel but no ell' T Mathews , !alingp On th e Lbeth Grec g of the 4 0 down Het ' aaet wit h nearest WO prisoners ifr hem, Tarbe° o scamps o l )r gin, whlfr shawl fro o , secutrix id' I took the • of ill.famt' he prisoncl* lc, however: ury return- prisoners to mplained •eu the Cour ; ►Jr. Sergeant ►aa, pleaded having, by wearing aP' residing il l 1' to sevtl► in the Nevi the passing LY.) uses. .C. R. . 4 oto6 ' .114 11 6 . 118 2 last quoted ; A fair VC' .f. s. X. o' ,y 4 10 to:1 .0 0 6 ° 110 1 .114 118 quoted. mariOS K 30,6421., t - c% NOR CH AMP S THAT WIL , . NAVE DEEP Lord John Villiers n, C. P. lan, Ald. ton, W , Sir R. Alderman C. John is, Sir R. Col. den, Sir J. LLER. Hon. E. G. es in the stion of the m Ordnance , and Mr. .1 , understand vote at all, d off 011 avour of the -General omitted ill he office ut lamt, againsti c of Mr , t on Friday !mice. Ve as in the 'era' of the 7.7 arc !vett of the r aunoutuv& , but witb'• iety in thu, elong to no to a wort‘ alter of a , ' is dinner at Mount tor' Higiv kerelret wee° Royal AO" Ecl o; cplube eleyroph. PARLIAMENT. I'IGHT OF CATHOLICS TO SIT IN INUIES RESPECTING THE OATHS AND DECLARATIONS TO 1/IE 'FA EN AND SUBSCRIBED BY IRISH MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT. -__(From the Catholic Journal—By Mr. Butler.) The sth of Elizabeth, c. 1, sec. 16, enacts that every person elected or appointed Member of Par 'atoent shall, before he shall enter the Parliament .. s l !°use, or have any vote therein, pronounce the Oath h S upremacy; before the Lord High Steward or his i'„ e PutY, unde r p a i n o f his seat becoming void, and —cu tting such pains, and penalties as if he had en tered without election?' The 30th of Charles 11. stat. 2, enacts that " no Peer shall vote, or make his proxy, or sit in the House of Peers, and that no Commoner shall sit or v ote in the House of Commons, till he shall take the O ath of Allegiance and Supremacy, an d s i gn t h e de claration against transubstantiation, therein-men tioned, and under the penalties thereby imposed." The Act also directs that " each House of Par uattent may require its Members to take the same °aths, and make the same declarations ; and sub jects those who refuse to certain penalties." Nei- Vier of these Statut es exten d s to I re l an d , except so r as it is referred to in the Act of Union. The 3d of William and Mary, c. 2, sec. 5, enacts that " no Peer of Ireland shall vote or make his Proxy in the House of Pe e rs, or sit there d ur i ng any ttebate, and that no Member of the House of Com 4101as shall be capable to vote in the House, or sit there,_ until he shall take the Oaths of Allegiance ttl Supremacy, and subscribe the declaration against b r atis, übstantiation, under pain of being disabled from aeoffice ; and shall be disabled from sitting or ' °t 'Llg in either House of Parliament in Ireland; 1, 1141 from sning in' any Court of Law or Equity; and f r°lll being gua r di a n, execu tor, o r a d m i n i strator , an d 4 ° ll l taking any legacy; and shall forfeit for every l qful offence the sum of 5001." [This Statute was Passed by the English Parliament : it relates exclu sively to Ii eland.] The 6th of Geo. 1., c. 5, en ac t e d t h at " t h e kingdom of Ireland was subordinate to, and depended upon, the Imperial Crown of Great Britain; and that his Majesty, with the consent cf Lords and Commons, might make laws to bind Ireland." [This Act was passed by the English Parliament.] By the 22d of Geo. 111., c. 53, the preceding Act of 6th of Geo. 111. was repealed. That 'repeal r ecognised the independence of the kingdom of Ire land and thereupon all the Acts of the English Legislature only, and consequ en tly th e A c t o f 6 t h o f Gap- e. 5, have from that time been treated as null and void. ' The 21st • d 22d of G eo . 111 c. 48, of the Irish - • 4" •/ parliament, commonly called Yelverton 5 sxct, enacted that . " all Statutes made in England or eat Brit a i n, for the settling and assuring the for ftit ed estates in Ireland, and also all private Statutes mad e i n a n England or G rea t B r i tain , un d er w hi c h any lallds, tenements, or hereditaments in Ireland, or estate or interest therein, are or is holden or or which c oncern th e titl e th ereto , or any avid and nee resp ect i ng the same; and all such clauses lirovisions contained in any Statutes made in England or Great Britain, concerning commerce, as u_:n ri rt !` .3- impose equal restraints on the subjects of giallo and Ireland, or of Great Britain and Ire all s land, and to entitle them to equal benefits ; and also such clauses and provisions contained in any Sta tutes made as aforesaid, as equally concerning the seamen of England and Ireland, or of Great Britain auditelind, save 3o far as the same had been al tered or repealed, should be accepted, used, and exe cuted in Ireland,- according to the present tenour thereof; __provided always that all such Statutes, so 1 1 . r as- aforesaid, concerning commerce, should bind the subjects a Ireland only, so long as they conti tined to bind the subjects of Great Britain." And it was further enacted that " all such Sta tutes .made in England or Great Britain, as con terned the style or calendar ; and also all such clauses and provisions contained in any Statutes made as afore said,as relate to the taking any oath or oaths, or making °r subscribing any declaration or affirmation in this kingdom, or any penalty or dis a bility f or om i tt i ng the same; or which relate to the continuance of any offic e .civil or military, or of any commission, or of 4 _nY writ, process, or proceeding, at law or in equity, °, l * in any court o f d elegacy or review, in case of a Oeini se of the Crown, should be accepted, used, and exec ute4lin•Jreland, according to the present tenour of the same. respectively." ~ By the 41 st G eo. 111., chap. 52, it W 11.3 enacted Tbat c , all persons di sa bl ed from or b e i ng i ncapa bl e °,.!, being elected, sitting, and voting in the House of ' °l ntnons of Great Britain, should be disabled from, an d are incapable o f b e i ng e l ecte d , or s i tt i ng an d Z i ng in the H ouse o f C ommons of t h e U n i te d ngdom And that all persons disabled from, or incapable 71, being elected, anti sitting and voting in the House of Commons of Ireland, should be disabled (min, fin d be incapable of b e i ng e l ecte d or s i tt i ng or vot i ng ' i n the House of Commons of the United Kingdom : " Provided, that nothing In that Act should be COnstrued to enable persons theretofore disabled by n nY Act of the Parliament of Great Britain from ziitting and votin g in the House of Comm ons o f ( treat Britain, to sit or vote in the House of Com mons of the United Kingdom, as knights, citizens, °r burgesses for any county, city, borough, town, or place in Ir e l an d ; nor to enable p ersons theretofore , 3 abled by a n y A ct of the Parliament of Ireland, Lrom sitting and voti ng i n the House of Commons of t A .telanU, to sit or vote in the House of Commons of the said United Kingdom, as knights, citizens, or ",nrgesses for any county, ste wartry, city, borough, 'nyiesport, town, or place, in Great Britain." Th e 33d of Geo. 111. for the relief of Roman Ca tuolies, enacts, that "the provisions -of that Act hall not extend to the qualification of Peers or t irrimoners foe sitting in Parliament." A By the 39th - and 40th of Ge 6. 111., chap. 67, the " . e ,i t of U n i o n o f E ng l an d a nd Ireland, it was pros that " the Members of either House should, i t ibthe Pa r lia men t of-the United Kingdom s h a ll °, 4 lerwi se provide, take the oaths and make the de -'4rations then by law enjoined to he taken, made, .1 1 ;t1 sub s C r ib e d b y the Lords and Commons of the It tliament o f Great Britain?' 1, It is observable that the Act of Union of Eng. i n 4 and - Scotland directs that the persons not tak tbg the paths prescribed, shall b e su bj ect to t he same pen a lti es an d di sa bilities as are imp lse d b y statutv.prelcribingihein ; but there is no su c h P, r tvisi on i n t h e 'Act, or 'the Union of England and m On- the construction of these Acts of Parliament, st i l.o"Conn e ll' a t i t l e to enter i nto, s i t , and .vote in "' r and e House of C ommons of - the: U n it e d -Kingdom 1 Great Britain ep end. Ireland m a y be thought to To r eac h a p ro p er conc l usion upon this quest i on , th e foll6wini: observations May be found useful : , 1 . Taking into consideratio n the recognition of l ue independence of Ireland by the British Parlia ment in 1782, i t may b e assume d that at the time of th e passing „of Yelverton's Act, in the Irish Parlia ment ,in 1781.178 2, t h ere was no l egislative act farce, which disabled an Irish Catholic froin being ' le tted into- and sittin g a nd voting in the I r i s h Par ,natnent. , - p r ovides-_ l • all statutes of the Ellis!) Parliament fo r . and assuring th e forfeit ed e states in Ireland und er whieh any pr o p ert y i s h e ld ; Or 2 . which concern the title thereto; 3 . And all private Acts of Parliament; 4. And all Acts respecting commerce; 5. And all Acts which impose equal restiaints cn Ise subjects of England and Ireland; and 1 15' Ch. 'which concern seamen —Shall thenceforth 11 accepted, used, and executed, in Ireland. But' there are no statutes of tile English Parlia tt'tritiespeeting the forfeited estates, or the title t hqto ; , or. WhTeriiieliiiiiite Acts; Orifhtelf-Tellife . .)•cotirrierce, ,inwnse,.eual "it s ub jects of England or Irela nd; or which con cern seamen—thst 1:1-11 Catholics from sit ting or voting in ram e nt of Ireland, or re quire any oaths or derlarations to be taken or sub scribed by them, a , a qmlitication for their so sitting and voting. Therefore, Yelvcrron's Aet gives validity to no Acts of the English Parliament which directly or in directly disabled Catholics from entering into, sit ting, or voting in Parliament. It should, however, be observed, that Yelverton's Act contains a proviso, referring to the oaths and disabilities in question; but it is expressly confined to Statutes respecting the calendar, and to 'the Statutes " made as aforesaid ;" or, in other words, the Statutes therein before referred to : and there fore the proviso, however it may limit, does not en large the operative part of the Act. IL The Act passed for the Relief of the Irish Ro man Catholics in 1793, enacted that nothing con tained in that act should esnable persons to sit in Parliament without taking the oaths and subscribing the declarations then by law required. This evi dently does not impose the obligation of taking the oaths and subscribing the declarations, but leavef. those obligations as they then stood at law. 111. The Act of the 39th and 40th of Geo. 111. for the Union of England ant Ireland, enacted, that un less Parliament should otherwise provide, the mem bers of each House should take the oaths, and sub scribe the declarations then by law 'enjoined to be taken, made, and subscribed by the Lords and Com mons of the Parliament of Great Britain. These were the oaths of allegiance and supremacy, and the declaration against transubstantiation. But the Act merely enjoins that these oaths should be taken, and that this declaration should be sub scribed; it does not prescribe any penalty for not taking or subscribing them. Being an act of ex treme severity, and creating a new offence, it must be construed strictly ; a penalty must not be enacted by implication. It is observable that the act of the sth and 6th of Anne, for the union of England and Scotland, enacts that the Members of either House shall tako the oaths and make the declaration pre scribed by the act of Charles 11., in the manner therein mentioned, " upon the penalties and disabi lities hi the said act contained." The words," upon the penalties and disabilities in the said act contained," are omitted in the act for the Union of England and Ireland. From this it may be inferred, that it was not the intention of the Act, for the Union of England and Ireland, to subject persons not taking the oaths and subscribing the de claration to the penalties of the English statutes pre scribing them. To suppose that the contrivers of the Union in tended to subject Catholics to any penalty to which they were not then subject; would impute to them an enormity which they have always disclaimed, and which their bitterest enemies have not charged upon them. The clause standing singly, the only penalty to which non-compliance with its provisions in question will subject the party, is an indictment. To proceed against Mr. O'Connell by indictment, them must be a resolution of the House. It is doubtful whether the House would pass such a resolution. By avail ing himself of the forms of the House, and enforcing its standing orders, Mr. O'Connell might postpone the business through a whole Session by intermi nable discussions; and in the mean time retain his seat. IV. The statute of 41 Geo. lll.—(the last sta tute, it is believed, which affects the question) enacts— " I. That persons disabled from sitting in the British House of Parliament shall be disabled from sitting In the. United Parliament for any place in Great Britain." This is completely answered by stating that Mr. O'Connell's election will not be for any place in Great Britain. 2. It then enacts, that persons disabled from sit ting in the Irish Parliament, should be disabled from sitting in the United Parliament for any place in Ireland. This is completely answered by stating, that we have satisfactorily shown, that no law of Ireland dis. abled Catholics from sitting and voting in Parlia ment. 3. A proviso follows, that no person, disabled by British statutes from sitting and voting in Parliament, Should, by that Act (i.e., the Act now under 'consi deration), be enabled to sit or vote for any place in Ireland, and so vice versa. To this it is satisfactorily replied, that Mr. O'Con nell is not disabled by any Act of the English, Irish, or United Parliament, from sitting for any place in Ireland. V. It remains to consider the effect of the Annual Act of Indemnity upoii the question. Upon this head, I shall only transcribe the fol lowing passage from "the substance of Mr. Croker's speech on the 4th of May, 1819, on the Roman Ca tholic Question, published by himself in the same year, p. 55.—" If a Member, to 'evade the law and orders of the House, should intentionally do what we have all known many Members do unintention ally, sit and vote without having taken the oaths; and that actions for his offence should not be prose cuted to final judgment before the passing of the In demnity Bill, on the 25th of March, in any year, he would, in my humble opinion, be thereby,—to use the very words of the Act—indemnified, freed, and discharged, from all penalties, forfeitures, incapacities, and disabilities, incurred, or to be incurred, for or by reason of any such neglect or omission ; and such person would be and is fully and actually recapaci tated and restored to the same state and condition in which he was before such neglect, and he shall be deemed and adjudged to have duly qualified himself according to the above mentioned acts, and every of them. And that all the elections of and acts done or to be done by such person shall be of the same force and validity as if such person had duly qualified him self according to the said Acts, and any or every of them." Thos far for the opinion of Mr. Butler. We happen to know that it has been sketched out for a considerable time, though he had not given it the form in which it now appears until within these few days. We also know, and indeed the opinion itself, if such it may be called, proves that he has most at tentively and minutely examined the whole subject, and that he has not been • actuated in forming it by circumstances of a temporary nature. There is one point more, which Mr. Butler has not touched and upon whiCh we shall take the liberty : to offer au observation. There is a clause in the 30th of Charles 11., which empowers either House. of Parliament, as often as. " the House shall see occa sion," to call up to the table any, or all of its members, and administe r to them •the oaths and declarations. This is, however, a power which has 4ieldom, if ever, been eaforeed. It is , a discretionary not an obliga tory power, and the House :need not exercise it un less it " shall see °erasion.' Now - it is not prilhable that the present House of Commons will " see cro- easion" to call this latent.and obsolete power into existence, for thi s 1 14110, that it has already .and .re 7 ee utly decided in ..14Y,PIK,of...thefcathelie question.. But even Utile Hou a 4 sbould,cornpel.M r . O'Connell to go to: the. table, and if -.(a4,u0 doubt would) he should decline the oaths and declaration.tendered to him, would he not he sitfejti _ doin g~:rince,ac o io, the words of the Imleininty . Act, " he shall qualified f ur a l l acts done or to be do ne? byhii ? ed ll il b e ig- taken and adjudged:thflia've The LoRD .CHANCELLOR gave a grand din ner, or , Sunday, at his residence, in , Cresne-street, Hano ver-squire, to Piiuce Licircu.n, and ii.select party of th e Nobility and Gentry. has appointed The RECORDER Of Loudonhas appointed W. E. ,BualcA 13%*, E s q. of Lincoln's Inn, Barrister at Law and Common Pleader the City of London, to be Counsel, jointly with the Honourable C. la. Law, in the Court of Record, fir the lioroUgh of Southwark. Mr. ROBERT WARD, th e Auditor of, the Civil Li,t, and author of those excellent novels, Tremaine and _be Vere, is about to marry Mrs. LEWIN, formerly the wile of Mr. PLUIDIER, the Member tin' f shire, and at present the wi.low of a second husband.-- John Bull. CLARE ELECTION. COMMITTEE ROOMS, CROWN AND ANCHOR. LONDON, TUESDAY MORNING. CLOSE OF THE POLL, FRIDAY EVENING. O'Connell 2,456 Fitzgerald l,OOl Majority on the gross poll for O'Connell 1,455 (From the Second Edition of the Dublin Evening Post.) MAJORITY IN FAVOUR OF O'CONNELL UPON THE GROSS POLL-1,427. ENNIS, FRIDAY EVENING. It appears there has been an informality on all the Registers of the Forty-shilling Freeholders of the year 1824, which is fatal to the registry of those who are yet to poll of that year, and has created great confusion ; but the votes already given are secure, and victory for O'Connell is certain. It was stated by the Assessor that if the Certificates of Registry were correct, the votes should be allowed, and that on the, certificate being produced, the affidavit could not be demanded; the entire of the certificates are correct. The certificates, it appears, are in most instances in possession of the landlords, and will of course be only produced as they please. Owing to the confusion, it is hard to give the exact number, but the day's majority is immense. The voters for Fitzgerald have their certificates and are polled, and an objection sent to the Assessor that there is a variance between the affidavits and the certificates. This will create delay, but can have :Jo effect on the result—that is already secured. I for got to observe before to-day, that in each booth there is a person placed who takes the names of all who vote for O'Connell, and likewise the name of their landlord : this has been done from the second day ; 'the object of course is persecution. There never was a market-day in Ennis without a riot, and the- Police called on to quell it ; no such thing has taken place during the election. CATHOLIC RENT. Mr. Conway acknowledges to have received by this morning's post, the following sumo to be handed to the Treasurer of the Catholic Rent :—From Drogheda, 'per Pat. Ternan, Esq., (including the subscription of the Venerable R. C. Primate, the Most Rev. Doctor Curtis,) 82/. I Is.; from West port, per Rev. B. Burke, P.P. 221. 17A. 6d.; from Athy, per Pat. Dunne, Esq., 15/. ; Eugene Down ing, Esq., Kenmore, 11. ASSOCIATION ROOMS. FOUR O'CLOCK. Money is pouring in from all quarters. The sub scriptions announced to-day will probably amount to Two Thousand Pounds. By a letter from Dublin, we leant that the 5,0004 required for the Clare Election was collected with the most perfect facility in something less than nine days, and that as much more as may be requisite can be obtained with equal readiness. The city of Cork alone subscribed near 1,0001. We learn also, from the same authority, that a letter from Sir Harcourt Lees, Bart., inclosing a cheque for 1001., was read, and received with acclamations, at the Catholic As sociation : it was, however, a hoax. ENGLISH OPERA HOUSE. A new Operatic Romance, entitled the " Bottle Imp," was produced last night at this theatre. It is founded on a well-known German legend (we should rather say Irish, in asmuch as a similar tradition respecting a magic bottle is recorded in Mr. Croker's amusing " Fairy Legends of the South of Ireland"), and turns chiefly on the em ployment by its different owners of the power granted to whoever possessed a bottle the abode of an Imp ; but which, unless seasonably disposed of before death, entitled the possessor to a snug freehold in Tartarus. The different hands through which the bottle passes, gives rise to much entertainment. For a short time the bottle gets into the hands of a good-natured little man named Willi bald (Keeley) who accidentally, from some foolish scrape into which he had been lured, wishes for a thumping; a process which is instantly effected on his own hack and shoulders with a vigour and vivacity that even a Donny brook freeholder would envy. Similar incidents, some however, of a more serious cast occur, and keep the atten tion of the audience unflagged to the close of the piece.— Mr. 0. Smith represented the Bottle Imp with his usual originality of conception and forcible manner of expression. The other actors also performed their parts more or less wall the usual ability, and the melodrama, aided by some uncommonly fine scenery, and some decent singing by Mr. Wood, went off with unqualified applause. SPORTING INTELLIGENCE. NEWMARKET JULY MEETING. MONDAY EVENING. Sweepstakes for 3 years old colts, Bit. 61b. and fillies Sst. 31b. New T. Y. C. .. ____ Mr. Theakson's Jour de Noces Mr. Udny's Sontag 2 Mr. Stouchewer's Kildare Handicap Sweepstakes of 10 sore. each, for 3 yr.-olds and upwards. New T.Y.C. Air. Houldsworth ; t4 Flush Mr. Stonehewer's Kildare 2 Mr. Rogers's Scribe The July Stakes of 50 sovs. each, for 2 yr old colts Bst. 61b. and fillies Bst. 41b. New T.Y.C. Lord Exeter's c. by Sultan—Athenian's dam Mr. Greville's b. f. Fancy, by Moses—Favourite The first was a dead heat between these two. Lord Exeter won the secand heat easy. Twelve started. The English Theatre at Paris closes for the season on the 21st of July, previous to which MACREADY will make his appearance in William Tell. He played Virginias for the last time on Thuriday. • It is now stongly rumoured that Sir JOHN LEACH is about to retire from the Rolls,"and that he is to be appointed Deputy Speaker of the House of Lords. The Rev. Mr. DILLON, who is a candidate for the Alternate Preachership at the Asylum, is the author of " Lord \Venal)les' Woyage to Heelpye Hyland and Hoxford ;" but, notwithstanding that, he is rather of ' a Saintly turn in his professional character.—John Bull. THE TWELFTH OF JULY.—The Orangemen in every part of Ireland will assemble, will walk in rroces sion, will dine—aye, and will drink the GLORIOUS AND IMMORTAL MEMORY OF"TIIR GREAT AND GOOD KING WILLIAM, on the approaching Twelfth of July—and the Orangemen of Ireland are perfrctly right. All faith has been broken with them. Their enemies have been tole rated, encouraged, courted ; while they have been insulted, coerced, put down. It is quite fitting that they should chew themselves in their power, in their strength, and in their numbers. The Twelfth of July will afford an oppor tunity- of ascertaining whether the loyal Protestant of Ulster is to be prosecuted for exhibiting his Orange badge, while the seditious demagogue of Munster displays his Green decoration with impunity. If the measure of even- handed justice hitherto meted to the Irish Protestants should be resolved upon :—but we shall borrow of Mr. Simi, an aposiopcsis.—lf * 5 5 "4 4 4—Dublin Evening Mail. ELOQUENCE.—The Massachusetts House of' Representatives has discussed the question of suppressing Theatrical Exhibitions. One member made the hillowing speech, which is rather curious, although it certainly does - contain some goon! sense, The idea of th e D ev il' s gett i ng into a'parliamentary body is singularly f e li c i tous— h e wou ld mischievous s te that ) lohlY member Air. Speaker 1 did not so li c i t t h e station e a mint Ili which aSk here, nor state nor did I expect it —nor a m 1 qualified fur it ; and I think, Alr. Speaker, you and this hog arable House will think so before I get half through—but, I am a consistent man, and wish to be considered as such. I find that was wrong in my vote yesterday—l am convinced s o fr o m thegr ea t an d respectable majority that was against me. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I believe I was instigated by the devil in my vot e yeste r d a y—Sir, we were told here, yesterday, by the gentleman from Boston, a /wry and pitiful story of one young man being ruined ir consequence of Theatres— What, Sir, is this the only solitary instance that eau be (mind ? I presume so, or we should have heard from it. What, Sir tell are of the deleteriOus or immoral effects of Theatres ! Sir, I think the morals of this place are very good—the citizens ate very polite! I hear no cursing or swearing, Sir ! I have seen more immorality in the little , nwu I have the honour to represent —more drunkards— more lying at taverns—more cursing and swearing, than or this metropolis ! Sir, I believe 1 was instigated by the devil, in lily vote yesterday—l am convinced I was t errni ! I sin a consistent luau." IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, MONDAY, JULY 7. The Alehouse Licensing Bill was read a third me: Lord MELVILLE presented a petition from the College of Surgeons in Edinburgh, praying for the removal of the difficulties in the way - of dissection. Lord GWYDYR presented petitions from Horn castle, Market Raisen, and Boston, against the im portation of Foreign Wool. Mr. Dent presented a return from the Northern Circuit of Wales, of the number of causes left remands in the Court of Great Sessions, from 1823 to 1827. _ The House went. into a Committee upon the Cities and Boroughs Parliamentary Poll Bill, and received the Report. Sir A. GRANT, and others, brought up the Longitudinal Discovery, the Regent's Park Improve ment Bill, the New South Wales and Van Diemaa's Land Justice Bill, and several private Bills. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY presented a petition from the Merchants and Traders of Dublin, agajnst the Bill now in progress to compel the bankers of Ireland to pay their notes at the places where they were issued, Lord WHARNCLIFFE gave notice that he should bring in a standing order on Friday, to be printed, and remain over till the next Session, for their Lordships' consideration, upon the question, whether a person subscribing to a given work was bound by the acts of a majority of a company with respect to subsequent works. The Marquis of ORMOND wished to know from the Noble Duke at the head of his Majesty's Go vernment, whether it was his intention to bring in any measure to regulate the butter trade in Ireland ? "The Duke of WELLINGTON said there was a measure now in progress in the other House for settling this question. It was a subject of great difficulty in consequence of the various interests it involved. There were interests under charters, Weigh Masters, Tasters, alai so on, the rights of all of whom were to be ascertained before any measure could be passed. The Earl of LIMERICK thought this a subject of vital importance to Ireland. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE bad had his at tention called to the subject last session, and consi dered that free trade might be at once allowed, re serving the opportunity of ascertaining, in the course of next session, the amount of compensation that ought to be awarded to those persons whose private interests might suffer from such a measure. The Duke of WELLINGTON said, no one could be snore desirous than himself for a reform of the law on this subject, and that all should be done by his Majesty's Government, with as little delay as possible, to accomplish an end so desirable. The Duke of WELLINGTON moved the third reading of the Irish and Scotch Promissory Note Bill. The Earl of CARNARVON opposed the Bill, but declared that he would not divide the House upon it. Lord ELLENBOROUGH, and the Earl of ROSSLYN, defended the Bill. The Duke of WELLINGTON said, he intended, after the Bill should be read a third time, to propose an additional clause by way of rider, which would allow parties either in Scotland or Ireland to draw drafts on their bankers in this country forsums under 5/. Lord CALTHORPE could not help expressing his strong feeling at the extremely unsatisfactory state in which the general question of the circulating medium was left. The present Bill was the off spring of the measure of 1826—a measure which had been introduced into Parliament at a period of almost unprecedented alarm, and was passed with less appearance of deliberative wisdom than almost any measure on such a subject which he recollected during the time he had sat in Parliament. And in what state did the proposition find the English bankers ? In so defenceless a state, taken as they were so suddenly by surprise, that they were wholly unprepared to offer any effectual resistance, whilst the Scotch hankers, on the other hand, hav ing had more timely intimation of the proposed attack, had recourse to every possible means of self-defence, they procured the co-operation of all their friends in opposing the most determined resistance to their assailants, the then Administra tion, and ultimately succeeded in compelling them to retreat in confusion and disgrace. He professed his ignorance on this most important subject, but the humiliation of that confession was diminished by the fact that he shared that ignorance in common with many Members of both this and the other House of Parliament. He hoped the Noble Duke would, on some future occasion, grant some further inquiry before the measure was carried into full operation, by doing_ which, he (Lord Calthorpe) believed he would be effecting a great service to the state. The Duke of WELLINGTON begged to re mind Noble Lords, that the measure before the House referred to the circulation of Scotch notes alone. If 1/. notes were to be allowed to circulate in England at all they ought to be English Bank notes. That would be but fair towards the Eng lish bankers. But the measure of 1826, which was so much ohjeeted to, did not introduce any new principle. The same principle had been introduced in 1777, by Act of Parliament; it was again acted upon by the committees of the two Houses of Par liament in 1819: and it was again introduced into the House of Commons by a Noble Friend of his who was then Chancellor of the ExChequer, in 1823, so that this principle had been introduced again and again, before it was brought into operation in the Bill of 1826. The Noble Lord's objection, therefore, went to a principle which had been in troduced into Parliament again and again. Again, it was said that we might have a paper currency con vertible into cash; but he repeated, that experience had proved that such a system could not exist. So long as It. notes had been in circulation, sovereigns did not circulate at the same time, except in London and Lancashire. Indeed it was quite obvious, that had the existing system been permitted to continue, we should again be brought, unless a Bank Restric tion Act were resorted to, to a repetition of the distress and panic of 1825, and therefore he felt the e n ze ss q - i u ty , of a entiy, d o h f e a rin (io g o t i o ng the th m is e m as e u a r s e of ure a l st 2 h 6; and e com pletion of it. Lord CALTHORPE explained.. Lord REDESDALE thought the Noble Earl near him (Lord Carnarvon) laboured under an error with respect to the value of paper currency. Paper currency was good for nothing except it was founded on merchandise.. It was only valuable when based o n substantial commodities; and.. the ,present mea sure was only intended to check the issuing of paper founded on nothing but credit, as was the case With the U. notes. For that reason, he would Support t h e present measure; because it would keep the/japer' on a ,solid basis. Lord CLIFDEN bad no doubt that 'paper ought to be kePt upon a solid basis'.• • Lord ELLENBOROUGH alluded to the state of the, manufactures in this coinitry at present, which. had been greatly improved since this measure had been adopted. The woollen manufacture, he was e nabled to state on the- best authority, never was' more prosperous than at present; its prosperity hav ing been increasing ever since the panic of 182.5 and the contraction of the currency Which had followed it. The Earl of CARNARVON observed that ' a middle course was the wisest to .adopt. What he wished. to be done was to get rid of the speculative and retain the solid circulation. He'did mot believe diet a circulation founded on solid assets ever led to excessive speculation. The. Bill was then read a third time and passed. The •Duke of. WELLINGTON postponed the : onsideration of the Irish Bank Notes Bill until to.; m orrow, to afford him an opportunity of- proposing some amendments.-4djourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, JULY 7. Mr. Johnson brought up a return of the number of prisoners confined in the Four Courts, Manilal6,ea, Sir HENRY PARNELL brought up the Re port on the Holyhead Road Act. The Committee reported that they were of opinion that the sum of 36,0004 should be sidVancee,- to enable the Commis sic;tieri toimprove the road between Holyhead and London.--The Resolution was read a second time, to-morrow. moved for returns of the andMr.o rd A e r l e d d e r t e m o a c i o r o rn o in D i t, quantity of spirits and malt warehoused. Mr. J. GRATTAN presenteda petition from the barony of Forth, against the Constabulary Act. IRISH BUTTER ACT. ; . Mr. H. 'HUTCHINSON presented a • petition from the county of Tipperary, praying -that no altera tion should be made in the law for the regulation of the Butter Trade, without further inqui ry . Th e Lion. Member said there wer e several individuals who had claims for. compensation, and.he trusted the Right Hon. Gentleman would defer it until next Session. Mr. H. GRATTAN hoped the Hon. Gentleman would not postpone the Bill until next year ; if he did, it would be utterly destructive to the butter trade. • Mr. COURTENAY said that the representa tions which had been made, induced his Majesty's Government to postpone the Bill for a few days. He hoped that his Right Hon. Friend the Chan cellor of the Exchequer would shortly be able to state whether he could proceed with the Bill this Session. Mr. S. RICE was sorry there was any • delay; private interest ought not to stand in competition with the interest of the public. Sir H. PARNELL said, the matter had been be fore the House_ three years, and if they went on this way there would never be an end to it. Mr. V. STUART said the butter trade would be ruined if something was not done quickly. The petition was then ordered to lie oil the table, and to be printed. Mr. W. PEEL presented returns of the number of prosecutions by the Mint for coining. Ordered to lie on the table. Mr. BOYLE presented.a petition from Clonakilty for the abolition of slavery, Mr. HUSKISSON presented a petition from the shipowners of Liverpool against any alteration in the duty on staves imported from America. Mr., COURTENAY said it was intended to leave the duty as it stands for the present year. -Mr. C. BARCLAY moved for an account of the quantity of beer brewed during the last year. Mr. BUCK presented a petition from Exeter for the 'abolition of slavery. Sir C. HASTINGS presented a. similar petition rom Leicester. _ Mr. OTWAY CAVE supported the prayer of the petition, which was ordered to be printed. Mr. STANLEY brought up the" Report on the Poor Laws. . Lord EDWARD SOMERSET presented a petition from Stow on the Wolde, against the sup pression of the Small Note circulation. Sir G. CLERK presented a petition from the Solicitors of Edinburgh, against the Attorney Tar. On the motion of Mr. W. W. WYNN, the Cri• urinal Justice India Bill went through a Committee, and several amendments were made. Mr. WYNN proposed some verbal amendments which were agreed to. The House resumed, the report was brought up and read, the amendments were agreed to, and the sill was ordered to be read a third time te-morrow. INSOLVENT DEBTORS' (INDIA) BILL. The order of the day, for the further considera tion of the report en this Bill, having been read, the Bill was ordered to be recommitted. The••Hoitse resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill, and the Bill as amended went through the Committee.' The Report was brought up, and ordered to be received to-morrow. • On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, the Warden of the Cinque Ports Bill was read a second time, and ordered to. be committed. SUPPLY The Order of the Day for the House going into a Committee of Supply baying been read, Mr. HOBHOUSE asked whether it was the in tention of the Government to persevere in pressing the Additional Churches Bill. . _ The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he should give an answer to the question to- morrow. The House having resolved itself into a Com mittee of Supply, Sir H. HARDINGE moved that the sum of 18,0001. be granted for defraying the salaries of the Civil Establishment of the Office of Ordnance., Mr. HUME said, all the statements of the Right Hon. Gentleman were perfectly clear, but he (Mr. H.) could not agree with the statement of the Right Hon. Gentleman on a former occasion, that the mi litary service was reduced to the lowest possible scale. In saying so, the Right Hon:Gent. probably proceeded on the notion that this country ought to, keep an army always ready to take the field ; but he (Mr. H.) thought that this country ought to avail her self of her insular situation, and make a reduc tion of her military force in time of peace. He complained that the recommendations of the Finance Committee had not been attended to, and he believed that the vote of a former night- showed what re gard his Majesty's Government intended to pay to those recommendations. He thought the estimates on the table were for a force which this country did not require in time of peace, and they in fact ex ceeded similar estimates for the year 1828, which were greater than similar estimates for 1792, al though the Finance Committee had recommended that our Military Establishments should approach at near as possible to the establishment of 1792. In 1792 the Officers of Engineers were 72—in 1822, 202—and in 1828, the number was 250., A similar increase took place in the Royal Artillery and Norse Artillery Establishments. Such being the case, he did not know upon what grounds the Right Hon. Gentleman had stated that the military establish ments of this country were reduced to the lowest possible scale. The increase of charge for the Artil lery establishment, since the year 1822, was not less than 50,0001. and the Artillery force now, in time of peace, exceeded the strength of that force during the American war by no less than 2000 men. The whole force of this country in the year 1792, was 66,000, in the year 1822, 101,000, and in 1828 that - force was increased to 129,0001. He considered' we were keeping up a force wholly unnecesary, and the expenses of which prevented Government from reducing the burthen .of taxation, which pressed so heavily upon the industry of the country. After some -further remarks, ,in the course of which he contended 0110 would be proper economy to break up the Ordnance Department altogether, and bring it all under he controul of the Commander-in-Chief, the lion. Member in conclusion observed, that when the vote respecting the numbers to be kept up in the artillery was moved,.he would move as an amendment, that they be reduced to 1,000 men. If the Committee were really disposed for econottiksl reduction, they would not hesitate to support his amendment. Sir N. HARDINGE said, as the Hon. M ember had dwelt. upon the increase 'in the %general expen diture of the department, As compared .with 1792, he would beg to say .a few words as to that point. Ulm compared the forces of the art iller y at the two periods, and allowing fur the nu mber of men in the new colonies, the excess wo uld not be more than :2 e men s the men still i n Por tugal, the es This part of the subject t h e Committee would find M or e fully explainedin :Page 51 o f, t h e evidence., ,rAs:to , the_excess of whi c h . t h e excess would , including icl 517. This Hon,: Member. as compared with the statement would be found in page 306. In that the Honourable Member would find the difference c l ear ly explained. The whole .sum in 1792 %YRS 442,00014, and at present 939,0001.; deduct ing .he superannuatiens in each case, over which t h e Ordnance had no controul. Now, if the lion. M e mbertonsidered. the increased pay of the soldiers, the difference in .. their efficiency at present,,ecan cared with 1792, he would find that there was a much better force for the same money.—(Hear.) The Hon. Member expressed his intention of prrr posing the reduction of 1,000 men from the artil , lery. The House would recollect, that when two years aao he proposed an increase in the number of men in each artillery company, there was scarcely any objection to his motion, fOr at that time the corps of drivers was put down so, that in reality there was not an increase of more than 200 or 300 men. - He would not now enter into Particular items in which. reduction had been made, but he thought that great credit was . due to the Duke of Wel lington for having cut de‘ en in those branches of the department in which reducthi.nwould not be inju rious, and increased those by which Ore most effective service could be rendered. With respect' to the salaries of clerks, he could say, that in many sta tions the ray was the, same in 1822, and 1792 as in But whether that was so or not, the q uestion was, whether the clerk of the present day %ea..' over paid ?. He could state, knowieg the situatior: o f many of the clerks, and their extra hiboOrs , the laCe hours of the night at which they had frequently trr remain up, to make out returns for Parliament, and their general activity, that the remuneration they received was by no means an overpayment for their sercitfe , . On the contrary their payment was as • low as it well. tonic; be. After observing that the sumgestion thrown (pit by the Hon. Member of throwing the whole of the Ordnance Establishment under the care of the Comnimmtler-in-Chief, would be found utterly impracticable, l ;:e Right Hon. Gen tleman concluded by statin g t h at ,Ire would reserve himself for any farther remarks on the detaih'.ef the estimates until the items to which th e y would refer p sa r i t t o t s h e at a if re tli t e ua l t te were before the Committee. mber o l‘ f -Te 2 . ,000 for i‘ A rr be M rd A ee ß ri E w ß •o L ul Y d men, he would support him by his vote. Sir KYORKE considered the artillery to he the right arin.of the British army, and he would consent to no proposal which would have the effect of ten-, dering it less effective. After a few words from Sir 11. HARDINGE, the vote was agreed to. The next vote proposed was 1,8461. for defraying the expenSe of the gunners at the garrisons and bat teries of Great Britain and Ireland for the remainiug half of 1828. The next was 37,409/. for defraying the expense. of the corps of royal engineters and sappers and miners, and of an establishment for the instruction of sappers and miners, for the remaining half of 1828. Mr. HUME complained that the number of offi cers of the engineers had beer increased from 7Z, which it was in 1792, to 250. The vote was then agreed to. On the vote of 130,9231. for the R o:i :el Regiment of Artillery, Mr. HUME trusted that Ministers world use every means to economise with reference td this grant, which he contended was most enormous, Old in which there had been a large increase since 1822: Sir JOSEPH YORKE would not vote for the reduction of the artillery -by a single man, al though he would willingly get rid of all unneces sary stich.as those the duties of which were discharged by deputy. Mr. MABERLY asked now it was possible to re duce taxation, unless by reducing such establishments as these ? Sir JOSEPH YORKE said the way to relieve taxation would be to lay a good round tax on thn fund-holders, who were best ible to pay it. Mr. MABERLY asserted that such a proceedin would be most unjust. Mr. •MONCK protested against any 1 sueargu ment. Sir J. YORKE did not Mean to recommend any such a course, but he wai desirous of expressing his belief that' the country Must be protected against both foreign and domestic enemies. He would be sorry to see a single penny devoted to any improper object, but this certainly was not such a case. 'Mr. Secretary PEEL could not hear Honourable Members on both sides of the House alluding and replying to the proposition of a tax upon the fund holders, without protesting against its being thus in troduced. He was certain the Hon. and Gallant Member could not seriously entertain such an idea. The vote was then agreed to. On the vote for 1 , 1,7951. for the Horse Artillery, Sir J. YORKE thought that the Rocket Corps might be.dispensed with. Sir .H. HARDINGE defended the vote. Sir J. YORKE repeated his objections to the rocket traoooping that they would not be thrust down the throats of the people of this country. After a few words from Sir U: HARDING-I: and Mr. HUME the vote was agreed to.. The , next item was for 614/. to , defray the charge of the Director-General and the Department of the Field Train, which, after a few words from Mr. Hume, Sir G. Clerk, Mr. Moberly, and Sir H. Hardinge, was agreed to. The:next vote .was for 4,559/. for defraying the expence• of the Medical Establishment of the Ord nance Department.—Agreed to. The next item was for 2,023/. to defray the ex opefnctieleof the Royal Civl A i lil O if liis, al. e y er Ae Lrofsso eln e ya ts, a t . \v n o d o lk h l v te i t e s i t i. l, Agreed to. The next item was for 78,8491. for defraying the expence of the extraordinaries of the Office of Ord nance. Mr. INIABERLY said that the Finance Com mittee had recommended that this department also should be taken into consideration with a view to reduction. One item in particular he lamented to find in the Estimate, namely, 9,0001. for defraying the expence of the trigonometrical survey of Eng land, a sum of 30,000/. for a similar object in pro gress in Ireland having been already voted iu the present Session, making in all 39,0001. voted in one year. The estimated expence that would attend the completion of the survey of England, Ireland, and Scotland, amounted to no less than 311,000/., which added to 165,0001. already expended in England. 5,0271. in Scotland, and 75,980/. in Ireland (those three items making 246,0001.), would raise the cosh of those projects to 600,00(11., a sum too large for the country; under its present circumstances, to devote to such an object. The lion. Member should take the sense of the House on the vote. Mr. MAURICE FITZGERALD said, should his Hon. Friend press a division upon the vote, he (Mr. Maberlv) would do so contrary to the sense of the Finance 'Committee. Sir J. YORKE hotel the vote would be with drawn. Mr.AVARBURTON, supported the vote. Mr. BANKES (Dorsetshire) did not think it that a correct necessary exPe"s e 7 • M r . f L ir !; a o r S i l ‘ ' ‘ E ,as ß u t e v e - a e s ss c a 4 l ‘;pitrion, map to the equal and just • assessment of the County Rates. Ireland might pay • ou t of her own resources the expence of her survey. Sir H. PARNELL was sare the sin vcv might h e saspended without inconvenience. 'Sir H. HARDINGE said, nany advantage.; would result from the survey. Mr. Alderman WMTHMAN protested against this item of expenditure. Mr. W. HORTON defended the estimate. Mr. 111 - Txur toougot it was better to suspend th; Work for the present. Mr. V. STUART supported the grant. Mr. MABERLY must say that no case bad yet tecri made out in favour of the vote. Mr. CROKER defended the grant. that the vote be, .11) ed 1V1 4,5 A 0 8 0/ ERLY then moved . The House divided, when there appealed for tl e intendment 9, against it 120. The following grants were then agreed to vv ithuut opposition :- 4,3391. for the service of the Ordnance not pr o . fided for by Parliament in 1827. 58,554/, for the Offices of Ortlnance in Ireland, !tier dedueting 3,5001. for ,the sale of stores, &c. 150,2440'0t the. superannuated retired half-pa: ar'}l„ widows ni otlieer.-, in the Ordnance Great Britain 'and Ireland. `l.2,titiav (9/ rue UIIQWWICe tts cvinpvloaucm foe tljL