The Sun. — London, England, 1841-02-23 00:00:00

VIORIVING EDITION ---- e-onamittee on the Bill ? In answer to that, he would say ,becatise, in the first piece, that when the 51. occupation . 41 ile was mentioned, irrespective bf rent, any man who knew sd. anythlrg of Ireland must know that ss. or might as well be named.— (Hear, hear.) He opposed the principle of the Bile on the ground that the franchise was so lee , that it showed that Government did not Mean fairly by the country. The provisions of the 811 could not be corrected in Committee, because it w as entirely irrespective of rent and outgoings. The pro -01 the Bill, it was true, would endanger the con stituency of Ireland. Indeed it would do so with a ven • geanee, for its provisions were little short of Universal Buff rage• lie admitted that the Bill contained some good Provisions, with respect to the amendment of the machinery ?f registration, but its defects far outbalanced its good qua as it would in fact enfranchise a host of paupers. ne (Mr. Lit ton ) would be satisfied with taking the rate under the Poo r -l aw as the criterion of the franchise, pro in vided he could be sure it was fairly taken. The Bill was heffect a repeal of the Reform Bill, and it would have ave more manly on the p ar t o f her filajety's Ministers to brought it fo rwar d as suc h . Fi e ass( rte d t h at t h e Ge eernment had brought up this e/. franchise for the pur- Pclie of inereasie e agitation, and he would venture to sly llis, that no man in her Majesty's Government had any supposition that this 5/. franchise would (le r pass the ,House o f Commons. Il e truste d t h at t h e H ouse wou ld ar e of political i m p ostors , an d o f a G overnment t h at Would sanctioa agitation. For these reasons be should °Miele the second reading of the Bill. PM F ITZPATRICK supported the Bill. e LUCAS sad he was anxi ous t o t a k e an ear ly op unty of delivering his opini ons u p on t h e Bill Aida teas b efore the H ouse , th e more so b ecause h e h a d b een 4 , ferred to several ti mes , i n connect i on w i t h t h at o bj ect . Noble Lord, the Secretary for the Colonies, had al e t la ded to him a few nights back, and reproached the Noble eLord, the Member fur North Lancashire, for not adept leg le, e se is present Bill a suggestion which he (Mr. Lucas) e"" made on a former occasion. The Noble Lord had Stated upon the authority of the Mirror of Perna ., tate at," that he r. Lucas) had expd an oiion I there should (M be alteration in the ba is resse upon which the el ective f ranc hi se was made to rest, and had then pro ceded t o d educe from his words arguments which they e m never intended to furnish, and did not in reality Py. He (Mr. L ucas ) h a d sta t e d th a t h e w i s h e d th a t I 4 franchise s h ou ld b e b ase d upon some f oot i ng c o %deist of th e oa th o f th e c l a i man t. Hi s e i h wa s Pendent th e va l ue c f t h e l an d, f or w hi c h t h e c l a i m was chee"e; we But th oug h h e d e .i re d a su b st i tute f or t h e oat h o f oh . cleiniant dii net desire to g any further; his sole e erse jeet ll was to prove the value of tee land by an indifferent Abich n The Hon. Member then referred to a Bill with - e had been connected, and to some correspondence y e lac subject, for the purpose of ehteeing what re the siews he eat rtained. Upon the subct of value- N ! opiteon had been that it should be 81. above the With respect to the Bill before the House the b e nui e Lord the Member for North Lancashire had so 1 -nt eci out all the faults and all the defects of that mca eZeinelete make it extremely iffilt sr any person who h e follow him to offer any remarks ! without going over t T e , el ee ground as had been occupied by the Noble Lord. se ll e' r was one point, however, on which he would tae detain the House. They hai often been told that e electors cf Ireland were too few in proportion to the P:l3:illation. The argument which was used, was, in his Lased up on totally false grounds. He had never p ..e(Pi ed ihat i t was the object of the Legislature to im er e t o sh e -ee franchi se t o a num b er o f p eo pl e , s i m ply because did i ' not possess it. The first consideration appeared n e ,7 ; el to be this, how were those who were to be sent to de t nent to be most safely, mos t soun dly, a nd most in • Pend ently elected?—( Hear, hear.) There would remain cquestion after that, whether they would bo most safely ps o e p t :d, by a small number ' or a large one; but the abstract e t iop ni sit 'en, that because Ireland contained a great h ation and a small number of electors, the franchise (bode be extended, was a proposition from which he fr om Lucas) must entirely dissent. They had heard e an Hon. Gentleman in that House that the number la ele ctsrs was extremely small, and that it was decreasing consequence of the unwillingness to grant leases. li t was W as a startling f a ct. With ou t wear yin g the House 4,„ . " any lengthed details, be would shortly refer to the fe t e: m eat which be h e ld in hi s h an d. With re o ;nee to t h e num b er of electors , he would state 1 1 1 - f act, with which he was himself conversant. lee n C ounty with which he was intimately concerned, in se "" 4 . there were 2,4oothey amounted to 4,000, thiteithstanding many of the leases bad fallen in since te - e tre ac• Was that any proof of the niggardliness of Sie franchise so loudly condemned on the other side? se, h ne lY Wanted a fair state of the representation, and be in crr e e to see it, not by l ower i ng t h e f ranc hi se, b ut b y t h e th e eased independence and education of the elector. As eh,Pceseat Bi ll was twed upon a prineiple which he had te ar n ,Y e e Opposed , he never gave a vote w ith more pleasure t" u e would i n f avour o f th e amen d men t move d by th e e Lord below him. (341 MORpETH then rose, but was, for a few me iupilts, inaudible, in consequence of Members hurry man their places. He said the Noble Lord had made he "e a le!so na l charges aga i nst the Government w i t h w hi e h for the tee honour to be connected. He accused them Re es c Policy which they had pursued relative to the!e reenetien la w i n I re l an d . H e accuse d them o f unsettling easi e is mi nds by a constant meddli ng w ith t h e elec t ive fran- Nisei "et in that particular they had still some lessons to the Q t l eal the N o bl e L or d.—(L ou d c h eers .) H e ac c used as e n • ter nment, to which he had the honour to belong, ever t h a g guilty of stirring the cauldron until it boiled 1 444 ' e n ,t_on that occasion his was the hand that had thi e f eees, most potent and busy element of tel Lor Co nsear, hear, cheers, and laughter.) The Noble. sntly spoke of the proposition contained in the I se ßell w ith respect to the settlemet of the qualification t o t`hee elective franchise being a c mere tack or addition the the nil , . Now if it were not allowed to form part of de le e,`' l ts it was, at all events, their preface, for he consi- We o - 1 t eat it constituted the only hope of bringing the e question to a satisfactory conclusion--(Loud f e os e : 8 )-- to a satisfactory conclusion and final settlement; leavv.'lthout any settlement 0' the electoral qualification— ,es it as it at present a o.d—• e coned they would . ,7e erin g a mere delusion and mockery the public.— it nee the ) The Noble Lord had frequently said that eel s • itt se e eat until he had carried his Bill to a second reading d of -" e itst Session of Parliament that they bad ever hear Zdeanition of the franchise. L o t a d STANLE y--1 did not say so. wooMORPETH had taken down the words of the yi d ,a Lord at the time they were uttered, and he distinctly to e lt was not until after he successfully carried his Bill Pe eti s econd reading that they had heard one word , res eg any definition of the franchise. —( Cries of Ob, bad and ehcers.) He was as confident that the Noble Lord if on t t l e sed these words as that he then stood before the rtoua *, Now, what were the facts ? Why, it was noto e,eder ! LI L L " In all the Bills which had been introduced aee n : eee sanction of the Government of late years, the iveh n len of the franchise formed a substantive part, and Pre pare that formed part of the legislation they were not T r a a r ed at all to legislate on the subject.—( Cheers.) So or pe e l considering th a t p ar t o f t h e Bill as a mere tac k c ordi a l last year, he had given it his most %ri sesr _ aeprobation, and h a d mos t w illi ng ly in it;elloteie Lit in th e measure h e t h en propose d. Peril edi l l ee Lord asked the Government, and that was re aot Y the Hon. Member for Coleraine, why they had flew lee forward in a manly way and proposed some un (Loetneea measure for all parts of the empire ? He eater i n M orpeth) did not f ee l hi mse lf ca ll e d upon t h en to Ne gs i i any discussion respecti n g th e S co t c h an d th e ep ou any su bj ec t b e f ore t h em was quite sest e s_ n * -- (Leughter an d c h eers .) Th e a b uses o f t h e system of regi s t rat i on i n Scotland were acknowledged, yet Nee „ h e Lord h a d str i ct l y con fi ne d hi mse lf to t h e sup yssera ages existing in Ireland—(Cheers)—leaving the . ,htip e , fee e a.it existed in Scotland and England with all their tam e C t 'clis on their heads. It was in Ireland, and Ire teat a slue, that all this ambiguity met them—it was in ti.eee le nn etrY alone where the registration laws were per. c tole e ' L t e e d embittering every grade of society. The t halie n ? r e said they were about to give to Ireland a e mpire, which was unknown to ally other part of the they B ut it was to be remembered, that in England eejoyerlojed the 40,. franchise—that was a franchise still larie.e",in England, and which was once enjoyed in Ire the Lib er a l did not believe that there was one Member of Paresa"seral party--he did not believe that there was any the 1?„11,0,1,the Liberals, who would not willingly accept of e l te e " or the Scotch system of registration, in lieu en or e , s m e easure then under consideration. By such ter leis, Nubia L or d wou ld b e consid ere d a muc h b et - Lo n ,i; a4- - 11 more promising disciple of the movement. els e or laughter,) The Noble Lord bad omitted from to heilasideretion the great preponderance of freeholders ne nstite e lid-4 easeholders had very little importance in the cite wh . et body in that country. The measure of 1829, eune uea l e , }l the name of the Right Hon. Baronet was so 40 t e fre e'Y connected, disfranchised no less than 191,000 60e, anti eh olders in Ireland; 6,000 201. freeholders; 1,800 d isfre isch . 303 100/. freeholders. Was not that wholesale Coe s voe l e acinent ? The Noble Lord quoted some expres pposie h had fallen from him (Lord Morpeth) when tea %n made motion made in 1839 for assimilating the fran oppos `l a the two countries. Now it was true that he had e that proposition, but be did not think_ ha It 3 actin •re tha g inconsistently in now bringing for ulsCUZSion proposition contained in the Bill under event,. h e " Oh, oh," and laughter.) At all evide nt "e nad not attempted to deer ire the House, as was ,Lee ree t d i ce u rn the language then used by the Hon. and 'hat H o ‘" e nther for Bandon (Mr. Sergeant Jackson). Pee) e n - and Learnei Member said he (Lord Alor the admitted , hat although he then t opeosed the motion ceteeictleawintOld He come w h en i t would be necessary to iliOltree which He had not held out expectations to the l ee !, 11 0ble L sys not prepared to realrze.—( Cheers.) - bea st , ore said they were calling upon the House to Hear upon a momentous question without information ;e ke th , heao__ pon a to e. information r ec l uestion g of the . utmost import_ ag o a? upon the table esieir e which hehad been able li e le and e ore of the House only afew days ene. Mild only late as that day.—( Cheers.) assn 11 se ouse . e !vas to (er e aleate to it all the information . in his ion.posses.-- beering these Opposition benches)—ande whether Itiho_Congiealsta,llie. specific statemetas bore against him or et th !lei bef ore e n . had used no concealment in bringing 11_ i nform _ tile tlouse.—( Cho re) But, to return to f_ensi ve. eleion not being full, satisfactory, and compre hliee, he :could remind the Hon. Member for Mona 'speared to be rathi r difficult to please, wi lk t i he had merely read an extract from his speech, his ° . 4t offing e r -.see s , • 0, any comment on it ; that igenlea. alums fully bore out his (Lord Morpeth's) tl iP dt le p l e • vid T in he ~Hon. Member approved of the prin t), Pen ( ! ent , g tne elective franchise on some fouling es en L . ly of the oath of the elector, and it did not sp at th " i cti that te P ro e , e observations quoted from the speech ns Posi t i, n. Member fur Mallow at all bore against his te! h en might bate Hon. Members for Mallow and Mo s etteee . other or (Aeonviews as to the amount at which te es aaing was to be fixed, but upon the principle gh e e tw o ~ ,!!e nattered hinaselt he lido the sanction of vet 'sev er nigh authorit es.—( Hear, hear.) Now, had etisee t. "le Proposition had been urged on the Go . ne always held, while distinctly notifying his assent to the principle, that he looked to the test of qualification in some extrinsic document, and more particularly the Powl-laws; but he bad at the same time expressed his opinion that the time was not yet ripe to adopt that test; that unt'l the Pocr laws were better known, until the appe +I: had been heard, and the rates levied, they could not legislate with full advantage upon the subject.--( Hear, hear.) Tire Noble Lord asked why they now called upon the House to arsent to the proposition? But he (Lord Morpeth) would like to know at whose door that charge lay?—( Hear, hear, and cheering.) To whom were they indebted for the necessity for the pie:ent legislation ?—( Renewed cheers.) The delays of the Government were looked upon asme repretexts—as putting off the evil day— and bols.et ing up the present system. All these were alleged agaitht the Government, but, not content with even that, they must steeds have a measure of their own. Of the Noble Lord it might be said " No joy to him a civic sceptre yields ; War sounds the trump, he rushes to the field." —( Loud cheers and laughter.) He sighed over the me mory of former Arms Bills and Coercion Bills.—(" 011, oh.") He had challenged them to the fight, and had rendered it any longer impossible for them to remain tacit spectators—(" Hear, hear," from Lord Stanley, and loud cheers)—of his follies and blunders in the arena of legis lation. The Noble Lord had thrown down the gauntlet and they had not hesitated to take it up. The Noble Lord said they might have confined themselves to regis tration, anal omitted all definition of the franchise ; but it was just there that he (Lord M.) found himself most at issue with the Noble Lord—it was on that point that he found his principle faulty, and his practice pernicious. Fraud, and trick, and abuse, and perjury of every de scription, were the terms most frequently used by the opposite benches. The notion that a pa. liamentary seat could be obtained unfairly seemed to have sat heavy upon their minds.—(Cheers.) How did the case stand ? The Government had brought forward a measure, putting out of 'ight its other properties, whether good or bad, which would entirely, and from the root, remove and cut off every thing in the way of trick, and fraud, and perjury ; and, in the words of the Hon. Member for Coleraine, under that Bill fraud, personation, and perjury would be no more. Now he would refer the House to the evidence of Mr. Fosbury, one of the barristers appointed to superintend the original working of the Reform Bill, a Conservative in politics, and that gentleman, before a Committee of the House of Com mons, distinctly stated that it was desirable that there should be some test of the franchise besides the oath of the party. He could refer them to other authorities on the same point, but it was unnecessary ; and he would merely observe that it was in pursuance of these opinions, and the experience of theevorking of the present system in Ireland, that the Government had brought forward the present mea sure. But what had the enemies of fraud and perjury on that side of the House done? They had brought in a Bill which, besides its enormous faults and objections, had a system of arbitrary registration, encumbered notices, and complicated machinery. So far from going to the source of the evil—so far from shutting the door against fraud and perjury, he most truly and unfeignedly be lieved that its real effect would be to increase those evils which it was so ostentatiously put :forward to check. —(Loud cheers.) And why did they say that ? because it left the main pciat of the contest in dispute wholly un checked and untouched. All the disputes which came on in the Registry Courts—all the questions for protracted inquiry before Committees of that House, had turned upon the subject of value ; and it was that subject which had not only divided Parliament, the bench, and the bar, but bad made itself felt in the remotest Registry Court, as well as before every Parliament Committee.—( Cheers. ) No one could take up a newspaper without seeing the lamentable disputes—the dead lock to which these dis putes had led. Since he bad had the honour to bring in the present Bill, there had been another speech from the bench in answer to an opposing one. Was that a satisfactory state of things to go on ?—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") They left the franchise in all the doubt and uncertainty which had been hitherto so loudly and, to some extent, so justly complained of. That franchise was to be established by the evidence of opposing parties and con flicting witnesses, subject to the different interpretations of Judges and Barristers, and fraud and perjury were too frequently the result. He would refer the House to the evidence taken before the Fictitious Votes Committee, in which it was stated that there had been the greatest con tradiction and discrepancy between the testimony of the witnesses examined in support of, or against, the franchise. It was true, that the Bill of the Noble Lord imposed many restricti nes, and threw many difficulties in the way of seeking the franchise, whether fairly or unfairly, and that was w eat he complained of. He believed that the Bill of the Noble Lord would, in a great many instances, effec tually drive away from the registry many an honest and bona fide claimant, as well as the unqualified and fraudu lest eaimants. Nay, more, paradoxical though it might seem, there would be many instances in which the Bill of the Noble Lord would have more the effect of deterring— that was of disfranchising—good and fair claimants, than it would have of deterring dishonest and per jured ones. And he said so for this reason, that persons of the latter kind were more easily induced to make speculations in such matters, quite re gardless of the consequences. They were ready pre pared to run the gauntlet of all the Noble Lords' vexatious and intricate measures. Whilst on the other hand well intentioned persons, perfectly well qualified to vote, would prefer giving up their right to running the gauntlet. The Noble Lord, in the course of the speech which he made that night, seemed to impeach in some degree not merely the amount of rating here proposed, but the pledges which are to be given in proof of the qualification itself. The Poor-law valuation established one uniform scale, but he admitted that that was liable to some exceptions. The Poor-law valuation had arrived at that point of pre cision and information which he thought it was possible for any point of human legislation to arrive at. He con ceived that this uniform, invariable scale of precision was necessary to establish a basis for any qualification. It was not absolutely requisite that the basis itself—for instance, in counties, they used the assessment, for the purposes of County-cess in Ireland. What was wanted was that the basis for the qualification should be fixed in some stable, uniform, ascertained manner. It should be fixed on such distinct and ascertained grounds that it should not shift according to any passing external influence—with the caprice of landlords, or the breeze of popular favour, but should have in itself a certain cheek against the admission of fraudulent votes. Such a basis on the whole they found the Poor-law rate to be. He did not contend that it was satisfactory in all things. He knew that plausible extreme cases might be urged against any measure which could be brought for ward. In some cases it might be represented that the landlord would wish the tenant to give his vote as he pleased, and would put up the elective franchise at auc tion, and to effect that would pay the whole rate himself. He did not believe that there was any test by which it could be so well proved whether any attempts were made to put fraudulent voters on the roll or not. He did not indeed recommend the rating under the Poor-law as an unerring standard, but he recommended it as removing all doubt and all opportunities of fraud. It should also be remembered that any departure from the spirit or letter of the Poor-law Act which could be detected was uniformly found to have a tendency to lower, not to raise, the qualification. The Noble Lord here referred to statements which had been made in the previous part of the evening respecting the proceedings which had taken place in the union of Balruddery in support of the view which ho had urged, and then proceeded to say that it was quite plain whether it was by a period of ten or five years, or by a qualification of 10/. - or 51., the Committee on the Bill and not the second reading of the Bill would furnish the fittest opportunity of definitively fix ing the points respecting the rate. But he wus now pushed to assign the reason which induced him to adopt the sum of Si. as the amount of rate. He had not heard any one reason en that night which would dispose him to recede from the proposing such a rate. They (the Minii ters) had made up their minds with a view to obviate and resider improbable the recur:ence of those evils which have so often presented themselves in the system of regis tration now existing in Ireland. In adopting the Poor law rating as the qualification, it became necessary for them to fix an amount of rate which would afford reason able evidence that they meant to give the franchise which it was intended to he conferred by the Reform Ac'. To effect th s they availed themselves of all the information to which they had access, and they found if they adopted, for instance, as was suggested in the returns of the Reform Bill, the 101. rating, that in all the Unions to which they had access for obtaining information it would have the effect of disfranchising a very eonsi lerable number of those persons - on all sides who he believed were now ie perfectly valid sad legitimate manner placed upon the electoral roll. Therefore it was very clear that the rating which would form a reasonable equivalent for the fran chise which they meant to give, should be below the sum of 10/. They found also that there were many registered electors who, if they did not adopt the rating proposed, would be excluded from that registration. In consequence of that appearing, and that there was an almost uniformly rated :value of 5/. annexed to the possession of six or seven acres in some circumstances, eight or nine acres in other instances, in many cases more, but never less than five or six acres—taking into consideration the effects of the valuation, which whenever it was ascertained was con siderably lower than the amount of rent paid by inhabi tants, they thought it but fair to place the rated value at Si., and give the present franchise as it was contem plated by the Reform Act. The franchise was that which was carried into effect by those very persons wbo put the law into operation under the original appoint ment, and under the continued superintendence of the Noble Lord opposite, when he filled the place in which he (Lord Morpeth) succeeded him. With respect to the gloss which was put on the franchise subsequently, he would only refer for the effect it would have on the registration of voters in Ire land, by mentioning what was stated relative to the Union of Longford by a person appointed to inquire into the circumstances bearing upon the subject in that union. The Noble Lord here proceeded to read the statement to which he referred, the purport of which was, that he could not find one solvent tenant who would be able to pay 101. over and above the amount of his rent. Now he (Lord Morpeth) owned he had much repug nance to bring forward any proposition which should have the effect, either directly or indirectly, of raising the elective franchise in Ireland. When he addressed the House the other evening, he quoted some compara tive statements of the numbers of the constituency in this country and Ireland, and his object, with respect to Ireland, had perhaps been misunderstood, certainly mis represented. He had never attempted to convey the opi nion that they ought to base the qualification on mere numbers, or in any way recede from the principle of the Reform Bill; but when he found such glaring dispropor tion between the number of voters in the three countries, when he found that the ratio proportion was in England one in eighteen and a half, in Scotland one in thirty, and in Ireland one in seventy-seven, he did think such a state of things required a remedy.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Monaghan thought these calcu lations ought not to be taken into account, but if they were to have tee electoral body answer its constitu tional purpose, he (Lord Morpeth) did . think it was necessary to eater his emphatic protest against raising A ' THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY, FI4IBRITARY 23, 1841. directly. or indireetly the elective f aachise in Ireland, and still further prising down its a'ready c ontracted, and, in spire of wha. l.a I been said on the other side, he traintai :ed is felt-eie mashing constituency.—(Cheer.s.) The Noble Lord had dwelt on the la-ge addioon the present proportion would pain, and had repre sented the effect of gis•ieg the franchise to the 51. rated tax payers as having a tendency to prevent the landlords from giving any more leases to their tenants. The Noble Lord had indulged in some disquisition on the relative duties of landlord and tenant—(Cheers)—respect ing which he ( Lord Morpeth) would observe that it was not such as he should have expected to have heard from one who had done such distinguished service to their cause as the Noble Lord.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.) He ( Lord Morpeth) had no objection, in c immon with the Noble Lord, because he could not c tunteract the tendencies aid fc etings of the human bosom—be had no objection that a landlord should hope or expect to have his tenants voting with him, but what be protested against was, that they should• be subjected to his feelings of ill will for doing rtherwise.—(Cheers.) He did not know whether the Noble Lord admitt el a wish to bring th e electoral constituency of Ireland to that pass, that whatever were their feelings—whatever was their sense of the treatment they received, they should he hound it all On ical matters, me eely to reflect and re echo the sentirre t; of a dominal pa t •—( Cheers. ) When it came to that pass the Noble Load was willing to give his consideration t i that case--( Cheers)—and he (Lord Morpeth) was glad to find that ie spite of the sacrilegious hand they had put to the sacred ark of the Reform Bill, arm were circumstances and contingencies that might induce evea the Noble Lord to become a fore. unner in the work of re-modal ing an innovation.—(Cheer .) But the proof on which the Noble Lord rested that the time was not yet come—that the landlord did not withhold leases to such an extent as to diminish considerably the number of electors—the docu merit on which he seemed to rely for these inferences was a return laid on the table of the House during the pre sent Session, of the registered electors in Ireland, which the Noble Lord quoted as proof that at the present mo ment the constituent body had increased of late years—that it was formerly 50,000, arid latterly 80,000, but that now it amounted to 99,000—the Noble Lord quoted this as proof of the number of the present constituent body its Ireland, overlooking the fact of the different heads of the documents that he quoted from a list of the electoral body before the elections in 1838, and that every person regls tered in 1832, bad no longer a place in the register of voters. This document the Noble Lord had neglected to read, but had, nevertheless, quoted, and he (Lord Mor peth) really thought that before the Noble Lord founded arguments on such statements, heought to be convinced of their truth and accuracy.—(Cheers.) This return con tained the total number of registered electors for the year 1839 and 1840, or the total number entitled to vote, at the date of this order, the 25th Fe bruary, 1840, at which time the registration took place, and the registry of 1832 would be still in force, and which, unless renewed, had all now expired.—(Chee:s.) And he (Lord Merpeth) did want some practical proof of the view he had taken, and which could not be compared with the return of the Ist February. By the later docu ments he found that the number of voters in Cork, which appeared on the face of that return as 5,738, had dwindled to 3,793.—( Cheers.) In the county of Tipperary they amounted on the face of that return to 4,143, but bad since decreased to 2,463. In Queen's County the number stated in the return was 2,536, but it now was only 1,689. In Roscommon the number was put down at 2,192, but the number now was only 1,059----( Cheers.) Stress had been laid on the manner is which it was proposed to deal the town fran chise. Now he admitted this was not open to the same ambiguity of construction, and that they were less impe ratively called upon to remodel in this respect the pre. sent provision ; but whereas it would appear, as it must to any person who referred to the evidence given before the Fictitious Votes Committee, that there were many controverted points even with respect to the settlement of the franchise in towns, and that in order to ascertain the proper constituency of towns they must have recourse to the oath of the voter, and the conflicting evidence of adverse witnesses—that the present scale between this country and Ireland did not make the discrepancy so considerable as it would at first appear; and as they had no other means of bringing the whole electoral law under the same uni form system, he thought it preferable to apply the same basis as well as the same qualification to the towns and cities as well as the counties. —( Hear, hear.) Now the main superiority of the Bill which he ( Lord Morpeth) humbly but earnestly hoped the House would sanction and prefer to that of the Noble Lord, was that it removed doubts—that it put an end to disputes—that it met at once and removed all the evils complained of—that it extinguished the disputes, controversy, and perjury so lcudly arraigned—that it counteracted all the mischiefs so much felt in Ireland, without creating any of those anxie ties and embarrassments so much and so justly complained of in that country.—(Cheers.) There were also other points of superiority which he thought entitled it to pre ference. That the voter should retain the facility of establishing his claim at all times in the year, and before the tribunal to which that class of voters was accustomed to resort, he (Lord Morpeth) thsught was better than taking away that facility, and limiting that opportunity to one time. He thought it would be preferable to confine the annual revision to matters of law, and to exclude from it matters of fact which already there had been opportunities of inquiring into. He also thought that it would be better not to make the Judges of the land the ordinary tribunal.—( Crios of " Hear, hear.") These were points copiously discussed before, and, as the Noble Lord opposite had already reminded the House, they would have an opportunity of considering them sepa rately. But the House, in passing its deliberate judg ment between the rival schenres, would be guided by the English Reform Bill and the Bill of 1832.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") They would see that the Bill of the Noble Lord, under its seeming horror of perjury and fraud included in the same series of doubts, objections, and vexations, alike the fictitious and the bona fide elector. It would nave undoubtedly the effect of still further pinch leg and paring down the elective franchise of the people of Ireland ; and in the meantime it left the acknowledged evil without a remedy, and the main cause of the dispute still untouched, uncared for, and unredressed.—( Hear, hear, hear.) Whilst the Bill which he had the honour to propose would at once remove the whole train of doubt in dispute, giving and not denying facility towards the acquisition and enjoyment of important public rights—( Cheers)—comprising at the same time, not as a distinct aim, but as a collateral means, some further fu ture enlargement of the popular franchise, and some pros pect of an equalisation with those whom they aro encou raged to call their fellow-citizens.—( Cheers.) In sub mitting those considerations to the House, and expressing his hope that it would lean towards the side of the alterna tive to which he was inclined, he was far from wishing to use any language, or suggest any view which, in the mind of any one, might be supposed to trench upon threat or menace. He would not allude to existing circumstances or to the fears and feelings of the times in which we live; and he was sure that the Members of the benches opposite did not entertain a deeper sense of those circumstances and feelings than he did ; and he had never, on that or any other occasion, held lightly of the gravity of those elements of events which were gathering round us; lie believed it was enough far him to express his hope that the measure which he had introduced, and the prin ciple of which commended itself to their judgments by de tails founded on the beat information, was the best sui ed to the present condi ion of Ireland.—( Cheers.) He believed that its adoption by the Legislature, if it happily took place—both considering it in itself; and as an evidence of kindness and a conciliatory feeling—would be eminently auspicious to the future prospects of Ireland.—(Loud cheers.) It could not be dissembled—however Hon. Members opposite might treat it—that the greatest an xiety was felt in Ireland on this question. ( Hear, hear, bear.) lle did not think that the people of that country ought to have such boding suspicions of designs eritertaked against them--( Hess, hear)—but he was compiled to say that peat apprehension eid exist amen; them—( Hear, hear)—and if he might quote from a classical authority, he would say—" Et Provincia"—he did not use the word offensively—(Cheers)—" si ad belli utilitatem aut pacis dignitatern respicias initio cilamitatis eat dtfeedenda."—(Cheers.) Ile did not look with ap prehension to any demand for a repeal of the Union, but he believed Oat no better opportunity could offer than the present for substituting feelings of amity for animosity and alienation—(Cheers)—for rivetting the union with links more durable than law, and more firm than force could give—(Cheers)—an opportunity on which states men would do well to ponder, and which patriots would not easily be tempted to despise. The Noble Lord re sumed his s at nmid.t repered cheers. On the motioe of Mr. BROTH ERTON, the delAte was then adjourned till to-morrow. The other Orders of the Day having been disposed of, the House adjourned at a Quarter-past Twelve. WATERLOO BRIDGE, A meeting of the Proprietors and Annuitants of the Waterloo-bridge Company took place yesterday, at the Crown and Anchor Tavern, in the Strand, for the purpose of taking into consideration the propriety of lowering the f.,0t.t01l on the bridge. The meeting was wry numerously attended. The fallowing statement was distributed to the shire holders present : It is objected to a halfpenny toll, that, if it became neces sary to revive the penny-payment, riots might ensue, as in th year 80, when the toll-gate of•Blackfriars-bridge was de stroyed. But that bridge's toll had not been raised, and the riots were solely because of the' no-Popery cry; and there being no attempt to restrain the mob, it wantonly destroyed immense property, and would have broken your gate, if it had then been with either a penny or a halfpenny toll. Then, too, the police was very weak, while now it is very powerful ; moreover, the penny-toll cannot continue, for Hun ger ford-bridge will soon open with a halfpenny-toll; but the reduction now would prevent that rival bridge. The penny-toll deters the workpeople ; for although 80,000 pass the two neighbouring bridges daily, and 60,000 live about St. Giles's, directly opposite your bridge, yet hardly any cross it, except in bad weather, when great numbers come, thereby proving it to be their nearest way. Many clerks, too of Somerset-house, reside in Surrey, yet even they seldom use Waterloo Bridge; and if they cannot constantly afford a penny for what is only worth a halfpenny, how can workmen afford it ? The experiment of a penny toll has been tried long enough, for the foot-receipts were more, fifteen years ago, although a new street has been since opened opposite your bridge, and the population near it is increased by 30,000 people, while the metropolis has 300,000 more ; b ut t h ey w h o h ave forsaken it would come to a halfpenny toll-gate. A lower toll would cause a row of large houses to be built on the arches, close to your gate ; and other houses would be erected near it, while more lodgers would reside in that vicinity. When a charge is reduced unreasonably (like the postage to Ireland) it diminishes the revenue but when it is reduced about one half (as in the range of the late Twopenny post) it adds greatly thereunto. Forty times more letters pass through the offices of Stroud and Nailsworth, since the postage was reduced from 4d. to,ld. The reduction of duty on spirituous liquors has added greatly to the revenue. There are 140,000 weekly papers at ld. or 2d. each, but there were not 1,000 when each cost a shilling. The railway eharge from Ghent to Brussels was lowered half, which increased the revenue threefold. The visitors to the Tower are ten times more, now the charge is only sixpence. The omnibuses carry a hundred times more persons now, than while charging a shilling. The toll-bridge at Rouen pays six per cent. on its outlay, be sides an annual sum for its repairing fund ; and though be tween two free bridges, it has three,ames more passengers than both of them together, although they are only four hundred yards off ; and it is solely because the workpeople can afford to pay a centime. When the penny-toll at Richmond-bridge was lowered, the revenue doubled immediately, and quadrupled in three years. Thus a halfpenny-toll brought eight times more people than a The late improvement at Blackfriars-bridge has rendered its ascent much easier, and you would have lost many customers if your horse-toll had not been lowered ; but since that bridge re opened, your horse-revenue is more than when the toll was twice as much ; and as unloaded vehicles pay only half of the reduced toll, it is clear that the reduction has brought three times more horses ; and all are with the same kind of persons as used to pass before : therefore, a reduced foot-toll would bring three times more passengers, and all of the same classes as now pay a penny ; besides which, it would attract the work people, who are far more numerous than all the rest of society, and the dividend would be at least doubled, as well as the capi tal ; and Government, if it makes the bridge free, will not pay the original cost, but only a little more than the market price of the shares, annuities, and bonds. The Irish labourers in St. Giles's average above twelve to a lodging-house. If a halfpenny toll at R chmond-bridge, with only a population at one end, and one abourer to a cottage, produced four times more revenue tha'a a penny toll, what will it produce at our bridge, with a population at each end, and twelve labourers to a house ? At one o'clock the Rev. John Rush was called to the Chair, and the requisition convening the meeting having been read, _ _ _ Mr. MORGAN said, although the meeting was not regu larly convened, it must not be supposed that it arose from any want of respect to the Members of the Com mittee, but it was considered that a special meeting was the only way in which such a question could properly be decided. Several gentlemen were decidedly favourable to making a trial of a reduction of the foot toll, but others were decidedly opposed to it. Now there might be pre judims on both sides of the question, and he trusted that no one would be guided by another, but that each would form his own independent opinion. Let each Proprietor, like a good Juryman, judge from the facts of the case. He need not refer them to the many known instances in which a reduction of the charge had been followed by an increased revenue—they were set nut in the document which had been placed in the hands of most of the Pro prietors present, and he called upon those who knev of any instances to the coptrary, to state them to the meeting. He should not trespass further on their time, but conclude by moving, " That from and after the !ft of March, the foot toll be reduced to one halfpenny, and that advertisements be sent to the papers that evening, stating the reduction, and that it is in order to try whether the Company can benefit the public without injuring its own revenue." He had not stated any precise time for the experiment, but if the meeting thought proper, they might introduce it. Mr. POULTENEY seconded the motion. Mr. COPE, Sect etary of the Anti-Toll Bridge Associa tion, begged to tay a few words. They had a double ob ject in view, to obtain a fair remuneration to the share holders, such as they could not get ,by any other means, and t obtain for the public a boon tiei could not obtain in any other way. There was no doubt that a reduction of the toll would he a great benefit to the public, and he was disposed to think the reduction would be advantageous to the Company, but upon that he would not hazard any opinion. There was one point, however, upon which they might rely, that if the Government purchased the bridge, in order ti make it free to the public, they would nenr pay anything like the original cost, but only what the shares would fetch in the market, or a little more.— ( Hear, bear.) Now their own Secretary, Mr. Powell, had stated, that even if the revenue of the bridge was increased ten-fold, the original subscribers would not obtain one farthing benefit. He trusted they would come to the consideration of the question in a fair and cand:d spirit. lie would observe that they had obtained petitions for throwing open the bridge from every parish in the me tropolis, and from every ward in the city, and the signa tures amounted to 70,000 or 80,000. They had been told over and over again that they could not obtain the funds from the Government for such a purpose, but they were still sanguine on that point. They thought that from the circumstance of that bridge having been intended for a national monument to commemorate the battle of Water loo, that they had strong claims on the sympathy, if not on the pocket, of the Government. —(Loud cheers.) When the Association was first started it was said that they would not get any grant of the public money for such a pur pose, as there were no funds available ; but since then 530,0001. had been voted for mere local improvements, and for purposes in which there was nothing like the public movement or excitement that had been brought to bear upon the present subject. lie should leave the matter in the hands of the Shareholders, giving his cordi assent to the proposition cf Mr. Morgan. He had no with to interfere with the interests of the Proprietors, and his sole object in advocating the measure was the benefit of the public.—( Hear, hear.) A PROPRIETOR said he Lad been given to understand by the Chairman that annui.ants were not entitled to vote at the present meeting, but he thought it most unfair to those parties to prevent them from exercising that right. He had no objection to the reduction of the toll if a cer tain time was specified when they might be able to as certain what the result was. Why not specify that the toll would be reduced for twelvemonths ?—( Hear.) The CHAIRMAN thought it would be better not to clog the resolution in that way. If it was found to deteriorate the property another meeting might be called to return to the present rate. Mr. WALSH wished to know the opinion of the Direc tors upon the subject their experience might; possibly guide the meeting in coming to a right conclusion. He wished to know from them whether their opinion was, that if the toll was reduced, the number of passengers would be doubled. The CIIAIRMAN could merely state that the proposition hal teen considered by the Committee at the time Mr. Morgan was a member, and it was negatived, and whether Mr. Morgan was offended or not he could not say, but from that period he ceased to be on the Committee. One of the DIRECTORS said he thought the experiment extremely dangerous, and had always opposed it. He thought they had no right to legislate for the annuitants, who had no voice in the matter. The., only feasible argu ment which had been urged was that it would pre v ent t h e establishment of a rival bridge, and if they co u ld by suc h mighta ste be p advisable. uta stop e to the w buildingas asmuch against th e measure of H unger f or d.b r id ge , i t now as ever he was in his life. A PROPRIETOR said that a greater number of annuitant", in number and value of property, had stned the requisition than of Proprietors. Mr. KNOWLES said the great bulk of the annuitants were in favour of the reduction. It would, in the first instance, stop the progress of Hungerford Market.—(Cries of " It is stopped.") He believed it would be found that the works were still progressing. Now, he would refer them to the fact, that within the last few years the dividend paid to the annuitants had been considerably reduced, notwith standing the increase in the population. The fact was, the toll amounted to almost a prohibition,._( Hear, hear.) It was disgraceful to the Government that they had not long eitsce purchased the tolls and made the bridge free. He should give his cordial support to the motion of Mr. Mor gan, who was one of the largest Shareholders and annui. tants in the Company. Mr. WALSH said it would be time enough when Hunger ford-bridge was opened at a half-penny toll to reduce theirs._( Cries of Too late then.) He thought it would be time enough to proceed upon such a course of folly when they were driven to do so. A PROPRIETOR said he understood the toll on foot pas sengers was about 9,000/. or 10,0001. per annum ; he would take it at that sum in round numbers. Now, his opinion was, that the reduction could not have the desired effect of increasing the revenue, and unless they had double the number at present crossing the bridge, (which be did not believe would be the case) they would be in a worse position than before. They were at present in a sort of negotiation with Government, and it would be most unwise to depreciate their property under such circumstances. The opinion of the Directors of the Southwark-bridge Company, among whom the question had been discussed, was decidedly against any reduction of the toll, and he would say the same of their late Secretary, who was a man of great experience, and who was decidedly opposed to such a measure. On the whole, be thought the motion very unadvisable, and should oppose it. He had on one occa sion suggested that if the adjoining counties would raise a county rate, to purchase the three bridges, it would be the best. way of getting the value of the property. Anctber PROPRIETOR said the whole question they bad to consider was, whether looking at the lass of persons who used the bridge, they would be able to double the traffic. Now, the horse toll was said to be no criterion, but it was the only one in point, and the only practicable aPplicati in of the plan of reduction, and it had been success fa'. He would refer them to the recent reduction of tells on the bridge of Rouen, whet e, after the toll had been brought down to one centime, the shareholders were being paid 6 per cen'. upon their capital. He would also instance the case of omnibus:F. A DIRECTOR said the question had Leen repeatedly mooted in the Committee, and he must admit it had been always negatived. At the same time he thought the ex periment well worth making. Looking at the immense passenger traffic on Blackfriars and Westminster-bridges, as compared with theirs, he really thought the reduction to a halfpenny would at least double their present income. —( Hear, hear.) Now, was it likely that Mr. Morgan, who was one of the largest annuitants and shareholders in the concern, would advocate such a step, if it was to be so ruinous as some persons imagined. He was of opinion, on the whole, that the experiment was worth making, and that it should be made at once.--( Hear, hear.) Mr. Ilonoes said the great question war, whether the reduction would benefit thrir property, Now, the num ber of daily passengers was 6,400, and unless they had upwards of 12,000 daily their position would be no better than it was at present. Now, the proposition he n emt to submit to the meeting war, that pass tickets should be given between six and ten in the morning at IJ. each, which would allow the holder to return free if he came to the bridge Lefore seven in the evening. One of the foot gates might be used at either end of the bridge to permit the ticket holders to pass. Mr. BEDENELL thought the plan would be altogether impracticable. It would lead to endless corlasion and fraud, and they would also require additional toll-takers at the bridge to carry it into effect. The CHAIRMAN was also of the same opinion. Mr. HEDGES' amendment having no seconder fell to the ground. Several Shareholders thought a specified time should be stated in the motion for reducing the toll. The CHAIRMAN said if twelve months was inserted they would be bound, even if it entailed a serious loss upon them, to continue it fir that period. Mr. JENKINS observed that they would have a-meeting in June, When it could be ascertained whether the reduc tion would affect their revenue injuriously or not, and if the former, there they could call another general meeting. A PROPRIETOR thought it was quite sufficient to state that they would reduce their tolls without giving the public to understand that it was merely a temporary measure. Mr. \V.LsR said be would bring the discussion to a close by mov'ng, as an amendment on the original resolution, that the charge for foot-passengers remain at one penny. Mr. HEDGES seconded the amendment. The question was then put, when there appeared— For the amendment l3 For the original motion Msjoi Mr. STUTELY moved the omission of the concluding words of the motion, which stated that the reduction was an experiment. The amendment, on a division, was negatived, and the original resolution carried amidst cheers. After some further routine business was disposed of, the meeting adjourned. LAW INTELLIGENCE. VICE-CHANCELLOR'S COURT, FEB. 22. His Honour the VICE-CIIANCELLOR took motions today, it being the second seal after Hilary Term. DAVIS AND OTHERS V. BRYANT. - INJUNCTION. A CASE OF PICKLES. Mr. KNIGHT BRUCE applied to-day in this case, upon no tice for a special injunction, to restrain the defendant from using labels which were counterfeits of those used by the plain tiffs. The plaintiffs are Messrs. Hesketh Davis and Co., the eminent oil and pickle dealers of Leadenhall-street, and the defendant is the Superintendent of St. James's Workhouse. From the statements of the Learned Counsel it appeared that the pickles of the plaintiffs having acquired considerable repu tation in India, the defendant, who had a son there, had been in the habit for sometime past of sending articles to him, the bottles of which were labelled with an exact imitation of the labels used by the plaintiffs. This was not discovered by the plaintiffs till a short time ago, and the manner of that discovery was rather singular. A note was sent to the plaintiffs from an engraver, stating that he thought it would be a great improvement if they would have the plate of their labels touched up a little, as it had become the worse for use ; this communication surp-ised them, knowing that the party who had written to them was not the engraver they employed, and they immediately waited upon the engraver, when, to their astonishment, they discovered that the plate was a spurious one, and that it had been sent to the engraver by the defendant. Upon this a remonstrance was sent to the de fendant, but without effect, and the only course left open to the plaintiffs for the purpose of putting down this simple and modest use of their labels by the defendant, was to apply to that Court for the injunction. Notice had been given to the de fendant of the application, but he had very wisely thought proper not to appear. The VICE CHANCELLOR, without the least hesitation, im mediately granted the injunction. ROLLS' COURT, FEB. 22. DUNCAN V. 3I‘CALMONT. The MASTER of the ROLLS delivered judgment in this case, which was argued last Michaelmas Term, when the circum stances of it were fully reported in The Sun. The case came before the Court upon a motion that the de fendants might be restrained from prosecuting their suit in the High Court of Admiralty against the cargo of the ship Lord Cochrane, in respect of a bottomy bond. His LORDSHIP, in giving judgment, observed that the cir cumstances relative to the bottomy bond were open to suspi cion, and required much explanation. He was of opinion there was sufficient in the case to entitle the plaintiffs to have their Lase investigated in a Curvet of Equity, and it did not appear to him the Court of Admiralty could so conveniently compel the defendanti to do all that a Court of Equity could do for the right determination of the rights of the parties. The in junction asked for must thergfore be granted. The Court then took motions. EXCHEQUER CHAMBER, FER. 22. JUDGMENT IN THE CASE OF THE MANCHESTER CHARTER. Ile Judges of the Courts of Queen's Bench and Common Pleas sat in error this morning, upon the case of RUTTER V. CHAPDIAN. Their Lordships delivered their judgments seriatim. Lord DENNiAri said the case was one of the very utmost importance, not only to the locality concerned, but also to the general administration of the law, and he could not but regret that he had been unable to make up his mind to agree with his brother Judges upon the case. They had taken every pains to come to an unanimous conclusion. They had attended earnestly to the arguments which had been so ably advanced at the bar. They had many consultations amongst them selves, but he had not been able to bring his mind to the same conclusion as the majority of his brethren. He thought it right to state that he could not regard the plaintiff in the pre sent case as a stranger, as he had been denominated by some of his brethren. He was a coroner who might exercise his functions throughout the county, and even in Manchester itself, unless another person was legally appointed to supersede him. The question resolved itself into this—Whether the inhabitants of Man chester had or had not properly petitioned for a Court of Quarter Sessions. The first point raised was whether the Learned Judge had properly left the case to the Jury. The facts appeared to be these :—On the 2d of February, 1837, a requisition was presented to the Boroughrecve requesting him to call a public meeting, for the purpose of considering the propriety of petitioning far an Act of Incorpora tion. The meeting was held on the 9th of February, and rate-payers to the number of one thousand attended. A resolution was pro posed and carried by a large majority, that the peti tion should be presented—it was then proved on the part of the plaintiff, that a counter petition was got up —that it was signed by 6,000 inhabitants of the Borough of Manchester—that it was presented after the former petition, but before it was taken into consideration by the Privy Council, and that it was signed by more inhabitants than the previous petition, but still neither of them by a majo rity of the inhabitants—that these facts were laid be fore the Jury, but that the Judge took it upon him self to decide that her Majesty had the power to grant the Corporation according to the prayer of the first petition, and that to that leaving a bill of exceptions was offered by the plaintiff's Counsel. Now, no doubt existed but that a meeting was called, but the majority had no power to bind over the minority, far less then could they be supposed to bind the very large majority of the inhabitants who were absent. The petition signed by 6,000 inhabitants was afterwards pre sented—that ought to have been left to the Jury, and the mere balance of numbers did not authorise the Learned Judge in leaving the case, as be did, to the Jury. In reply, the plaintiff's Counsel contend ed that no judicial power was conferred by the Municipal Act on the Privy Council ; and although they' were commanded to consider petitions presented, and would not recommend that the prayers of them should be acceded to unless they were of opi nion that it would be for the benefit of the town that the prayer should be granted, still that was net con clusive evidence against all parties concerned ; and the defendants, acting upon the best opinions of Counsel, had argued the case most learnedly, and at great length, The plaintiff's argument, how ever, appeared to him to be well founded. Supposing the petition of the 4,000 to have given power to the Queen to grant the Charter, the petition of the 6,000 did not revoke it in point of law. That was assumed by the Learned Judge. The second objection taken, was as to the validity of the first peti tion, and that they did not proceed to incorpo rate those persons who had petitioned for the Charter ; and it was said that all those who petitioned for the Charter might be excluded from its benefits, and the Charter only granted to those who were opposed to it. That was an exaggerated view of the case, and it might be said that in such a case the Charter would not be ac cepted. He had no doubt of the power of the Crown to grant a Charter to any part of a town to incorporate certain districts and leave out others—it was quite clear that this could be done by the Crown, and by no other authority except' Parliament. The Crown had delegated to Messrs. Price and Rushton those prerogatives which could only be exercised by itself. Could it be said that it would be law ful for the Crown to delegate to any one the power to nominate Mr. A. or Mr. B. as an Alderman or a Mayor ? Such an argument would not be put forward, and he thought that it appliedequ.aiiy in the present case. The parties nominated might base declined to act. Had the Cr own an y power, by mandamus, or otherwise, to compel them to perform those duties. They were mere voluntary agents, and ao proceedings could compel them ;o perform the duties assigned to the present Charter, and as the facts ,in, ; pen the r e cord, the formation of the Tway ce:poi•ato not the formation of the Crown, but of s(in; ons nominated by the Crow v, and great easily creep in. Another olt,kction ta;:ca tlo Countel for the plaintiff ttaa ti:::, and it was well &serving th a t. - in order to make out.these was e.,tablislicd, and oaths were administere.:.',:.::,,-were not binding iu law. He could not escapa- and he thought that judgment oughttole-given for the plain tiff in error, but the majority 'attic Judges being of a different opinion, the judgment wpuld Wier the de fendant. Lord Chief Justice TINDAL said, this was an action brought by one of the six coroners of the County Palatine of Laneaite-, in which was in volved the question of the validity of Charter of In corporation granted to the Borough of Manchester. The objections taken resolved themselves into three distinct heads. The first objection was from mis-direction on the part of the Learned Judge. The second objection was against the Charter itself, and the third was against the legality of the nomination of the defendant to the office of corone-. The sum and sub. stance of the first objecton amounted to this, that in order to enable the Queen to grant a Charter of Incorporation, there must be a pe tition from the inhabitant householders of the town or borough for that purpose. Now the fact of a petition being presented was a question for the Jury, and the Learned Judge would be open to blame if be de cided it as a matter of law. He entirely agreed in the opinion that the petition was a preliminary to the granting of the Charter, and the fact of there being two petitions in this case was a matter which was peculiarly with him a matter f or th e Jury to consider. The ques tion of fact was submitted to the Jury, and the excep tions taken were not pointed enough to raise the objet. tions which had been urged in argument. The evidence laid before the Jury was that at a public meeting of the rate-payers called together by public notice a petition was adopted, and signed by 4,000 inhabitants, praying for a Charter, that after that petition was presented another petition was got up, and signed by 6,000 persons, but it was not agreed to at any public meeting. Neither etas signed by a majority of the inhabitant house. holders. The question then was ;shatter under these circumstances the inhabitant householders had petitioned for the Charter or not. The Learned Judge who presided upon the trial, being applied to, stated his opinion to be, that her Majesty had power to grant a Charter according to the prayer of the first petition. There was no authority for this, nor did he think there was any reasonable ground. They were bound to take into consideration the publi city with which the first petition was got up, and the non publicity of the second. In point of law, in his opinion, the second petition did not take away the right of her Majesty to attend to the recommendation of her Privy Council and grant the Charter to the prayer of the first petition. After considering the other objec tions, the Learned Judge said that although the case was one of great doubt and difficulty, still he felt bound to say that the plaintaiff was not entitled to recover, and therefore the judgment for the defendant in the Court below ought to Le affirmed. The other Judges delivered their opinion seriatim, Mr. Justice Williams and Coleridge adhering to the judg ment delivered by Lord Denman, Justices Bosnnquet, Paulson, and Coltman agreeing with the Chief Justice Tindal. The judgment was accordingly in favour of the de fendant, thereby establishing the validity of the Charter. DESTRUCTION OF WYNYARD HOUSE BY FIRE. We learned yesterday morning with great regret the destruc tion of the noble edifice, of which the subjoined letters give melancholy accounts. It appears from these that the building is almost totally destroyed, and that the loss of property is enor mous. This celebrated mansion is distant about four miles and a half north by west fr,an Stockton. It was erected on the site of the old mansion, by Sir Harry Vane Tempest, fa ther of the Marchioness of Londonderry, from a beautiful de sign by P. W. Wyatt, Esq., and the Park within a few Years has been considerably enlarged. It is difficult to say which is most worthy of admiration—the dignified simplicity exhibited in the exterior of the building, or the judicious ar rangements in the interior, which combine the majesty of a palace with the comforts and conveniences of a domestic dwelling. The walks and pleasure-grounds in the vicinage of the edifice harmonize well with the chaste design of the archi tect ; artificial decoration, and superb ornament, give place to the softer features of nature. A smallrivulet, forming a beau tiful canal, margined with wood and shady walks, meanders witheasy curvatures through the park, and gives a delightful finish to the scene. The property of Wynyard has been held ,by a long succes sion of distinguished families. The inheritance was conveyed in marriage with Lady Frances, daughter of Sir Henry Vane Tempest, to the Marquis of Londonderry in Ireland, who, in 1823, was created Earl Vane, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain. TO THE EDITOR OF THE SUN. Stockton-upon-Tees, Saturday evening, Feb, 20, 1841. Six,—From the great exertions you invariably make KT conveying the first intelligence to the public of any remarkable event, I beg to make your journal the medium of communi cating a most appalling catastrophe which has happened in this vicinity—the destruction by fire of the mag nificent and beautiful mansion at Wynyard, the seat of the Most Noble the Marquis of Londonderry. How the fire which has occasioned so much devastation and irreparable loss, originated, has not been ascertained ; but it is gratifying to know that there is no reason whatever to attribute it to any thing but an accidental ffre. The writer of this letter hastened to the scene of the fire, and arrived there about half past one o'clock this morning. The conservatory, and a large portion of this elegant structure, were then in flames. He endeavoured to ascertain on the spot, as well as he could in the confusion which naturally occurred, how the accident had happened ; but all that he could learn was that the housekeeper, Mrs. Edgar, and two female servants, in the absence of the family, resided in the house; that one of his Lordship's game-watchers was out about half-past ten o'clock last night, and at that time nothing had occurred to attract his attention, but that on proceeding to join another watcher at a little past eleven o'clock he obsorved the flames issuing, as he thought, from the chapel, which had not been finished, but in which some carpenters had been recently employed. The chapel is close to the conservatory, and is heated by means of flues, from the overheating of which it is supposed the acci dent has arisen. The sad intelligence was immediately made known to the villagers of Wolveston, about a mile and a half from the noble mansion, and with all pos sible despatch at Stockton, when many individuals hastened with three fire-engines to the spot, and did all that human aid could do in arresting the destructive element. It was, however, a most heart-rending scene to ob serve the rapid destruction of this pride and glory of the North, and containing some of the most costly and rarest ar ticles of furniture, and many of them the gifts of crowned heads. There is no one, whatever his feelings may be to wards the Marquis, either politically or otherwise, but must most deeply sympathise with his Lordship, the Marchioness, and their family, on this sad event. That part of the building which comprises the kitchens, and some portion of her Ladyship's apartments including the boudoir, though greatly damaged, have been preserved ; and by the spirited exertions of several individuals, and particularly of two from Stockton, who might be named, nearly the whole of his Lordship's valuable paint ings, and a great portion of the most valuable furniture, books, and fittings up of the several apartments, though injured, of course, have been secured. The plate was altogether saved. The amount of loss sustained by this melancholy event cannot well be estimated, but I should venture to say that property of the value of three or four hundred thousand pounds was de stroyed in a few hours. It is not known whether the property was insured. His Lordship is still abroad. It is to be re gretted that suitable fire-engines were not kept on the premi ses, and there wanted some persons of judgment and import ance to direct the proceedings during the awful period. The fire is still burning, but the engines will no doubt be used until all appearance of danger is removed. I am, Sir, your obedient servant, P. R. (FROM ANOTHER CORRESPONDENT.) Stockton, Feb. 20, 1841. You will no doubt receive other intelligence by this post respecting the sad calamity by fire that occurred last night, or rather this morning, at Wynyard Park, about seven miles from this, the princely seat of the Alost Noble the Marquis of Lon. donderry. I have just returned from the sad scene. The fire was first discovered by one of the gamekeepers' watchmen, about eleven o'clock last night, issuing from the chapel, which was being fitted up by workmen, and it is but too doubtful that from some neglect on their part the fire has originated. An alarm was of course instantly given, and messengers on horseback despatched to this town, Durham, Sunderland, and the collieries, to set the fire-bells at each place to work, and forward engines, which were despatched with great quickness, but owing to a high wind blowing they were of little use, though there was water in abundance, and it is melancholy to add little save the kitchen part and some va luable pictures and furniture, is left of this splendid mansion ; in short, it is completely gutted and a ruin. It is yet (five o'clock this afternoon) burning. SOCIETY IN INDlA.—Stories illustrative of Eastern life and manners have long formed a most at tractive branch of general reading; and we have now to add to the amusing works of this class, a work which has just made its appearance under the above title,riv c a e l r .. , ling in interest and e ntertainment all p reccedin g efforts. It is the production o f a distin g uished E nglish officer, who has lived many years in our possessions in the East, and in a singularly pleasing story he la 3 exl.ibited the experience he has acquired of the peculiar habits and cha racteristics of the natives of Hiadostan of different ranks, and pourtraycd all the varieties of the English resident t o be found in the " best circles " :I s f l t i li m at os p t art o f Societymay b e in considered n l s n i d d i e a ;e " d a 3 affording the most pic the appropriatewoornlde.. turesque and complete illustr a ti ons of f T or he th t e itl w e C;rc Life in the East ever published. A POTII ECA RIES' COMPANY.—From the eSta bliAttrent cf Ibis company, in 1815, to the month of August, 1840, the sum of 6 7,980/ has been received by it n fees or licenses to pricti:C, being it the rate of 2,6001. a-year. MORN ENG EDITION. AWFUL CALA 111 T Y. ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY-TWO LIVES LOST. LIVLIU'OOL, SUNDAY EVENlNG.—lntelligence has been received here to-day of one of the roost appalling calamities that ever occurred on the shores of Great Britain—a calamity as sudden and unc::pected as it is astounding and ay. ful. The frets are brit fly these : An migrant ship, called the Governor Fenner, bound to New York, sailed from this port on Friday last, with a crew of 18, including the Captain, and 106 passen gers, all of whom, with the exception of the Captain and•chief mate; have perished within twelve hours aver their departure. About two o'clock on the morning' of Saturday, the ve sse l b e i ng t h en a b out twenty mi l es north of - Holyhead, came in contact with the Notting ham steamer, from Dublin, and so fearful was the coliiiion, so sudden its effects, that in less than a mi nute after, so says the Capfaie, tie i.l.fatA emi grant ship disappeared, carrying (loan with her every soul on board, except the two individua's presiously named. The ni 4 ;lit was excessively dark, so dark that, although the captain of the Governor Fenner was cna ab!ed to se.: the lights of the steamer, the steeranan of the latter was not able to distinguish those of the Go vernor Fenner. The captain was on deck at the time, and seeing the steamer on his weather bow, put his helm aport, the wind et the time blowing fresh S.S.W. ; with a heavy head sea. The steersman of the Notting ham, from the cause assigned, kept his helm starboard, which produced the melancholy calamity. The vessel struck the steamer amidships, abaft the wheel, carried away her funnel and wheel-house, knocked her bul warks to pieces, and so completely shattered her ma chinery, that she was issmediattly crippled and ren dered useless, but no lives were lost. What follows will be best described in the words of the captain of the ill fated Governor Fenner. " 1 repaired forward, and found the ship going down, head first. I instantly ordered the men on deck to save their 1 vet, but they still kept going abaft. 1 remained on the forecastle until the ship was at. the water's edge, and just saved my l:fc by catching at a rope from the steamer. My mate jumped from the fore-yard no board the steamer, and saved his life by so doing. The ship disappeared almost instantaneously. The steamer hiwered a boat, but she was swamped Llongsidt. All the passengers were in their :scabs and asleep at the moment they were thus hurried into eternity ; and the crew rlso, with the exception of the watch. The bulk of the rassengers is described as being supe rior to the ordinary run of steerage emigrants, for there were no cabin passengers, and some of them are said to have carried out considerable property. The office of the agent is closed to-day, being Sunday, but a list will probably app , ar to-morrow. Many were natives of the three kingdoms, promiscuously, and not of any particuhr• locality or kin g d om . With respect to the vessel herself she was of l, and must have been wretchedly crazy. It appears by the register that she was bu It in Massachugsetts, in 18. 1 7, and had been consequently nearly fourteen years afloat. The Captain describes bar, however, as being a strong and w(11 built craft ; and, be says, that last summer, $B,OOO were expended on her in iron knees and other substantial repair. The Nottingham, from the damage she received in the collision, was unable to make head, anal, from the time of the caamity until four o'clock in the afternoon, by constantly ',lying the pumps, she was kept from sinking, when a steamer from Drogheda hove in sight, took her in tow, and she arrived here thin morning. She had on board a large quantity of cattle ; and, in order to keep her afloat, 200 head were obliged to be thrown into the sea. Had the weather been at all boisterous, the steamer would unquestionably have shared the fate of the Governor r.•nner. ADDITIONAL PARTICULARS. (From the Liverpool AlLion of yesterday.) We have heard the account of the catastrophe given by the persons who were on the deck of the Nottingham when the col lision occurred. In substance it was as follows : " About a quarter past two o'clock, on Saturday morning, when about fifteen miles to the westward of Holyhead, the weather calm, but rather thick, one of the men of the watch saw a ship bearing down upon the Nottingham ; she had no light at her mast, while the steamer had three lights. He re- Forted the fact to the second mate, who was then at the wheel. fhe second mate hailed the ship and was answered. He desired her to starboard the helm. This, they thought, was not done. A voice from the ship, which was supposed to have been that of the Captain, requested the steamer to starboard her helm, as he could not bring the ship over, she not answering her helm. At this instant the .Governor Fenner struck the Nottingham amidships, In less than five minutes, the ship filled with water, and disappeared. The steamer became quite motionless after the shock, and the people on board of her were unable to make the least attempt to succour those on board the ship, which sunk bow foremost. The screams of the people on the wreck were heart-rending, but they soon ceased, and all was still. The steamer's starboard side was completely stove in : the 'addle shaft and wheel were shivered in pieces : the starboard engine was broken, and the funnel carried away. Seventeen cows were killed seven more and 78 sheep were thrown overboard, and 11 died before the vessel reached port. On Saturday evening the wreck of the Nottingham was fallen in with by another steamer, and towed into the Mersey. " The opinion on board the. Nottingham was, that the Go . _ verner Fetiner's helm, instead of being put to starboard, as it ought to have been, must have been put to port, for; if it had beeu put to starboard; the.. ship would hive cleared the steamer." The passengers were all below in their berths when the col-1, lision between the ship and the steamer took place. The shock caused by it would, of course, rouse even those who might then be asleep. No doubt they would make a rush towards the deck: the interval, howe.er, which elap , ed between the shock and the sinking was so short, scarcely five minutes, that very few, if any, could have suc ceeded in reaching it. So that, in all probability, most of them perished in their berths. The mate, we under stand, had been married a few days only before the ship's sailing on her voyage: the Captain had given her a berth with her husband in the cabin. When; the fate of the ship became inevitable, he attempted to run aft to rescue his wife. Time failed him : the instinct of self-pre:ervation be came strong : he sprang up the shrouds, and -reached the steamer, as we have already stated, by jumping from the lore yard-arm. The Nottingham, which now lies on the east side of the Clarence Dock, was yesterday visited by thousands of curious spectators. Her starboard side is a complete wreck ; even the houses and the deck adjoining are shivered in fragments. The dead animals, cows and sheep, covered the deck, and presented a shocking sight, most of them having been disemboweled by the concussion which caused their death. SHIPPING INTELLIGENCIL (LLOYD'S.) DEAL, FEB. 20.—Wind S., moderate; 21, S. S. E., light._. Arrived the Governor M'Lean, Morley, from Africa ; Augusta Jessie, Sparks, Singapore; Sarah, Hadick, Bombay. Sailed the Lidisfarne, Stebbens, for Constantinople ; Sarepta, Dawson, Trieste ; Eliza Gilman, Steer, St. Michaels ; NV as sener, Holland. Arrived from the River the Ruby, Bennett, for dpe de Verds. PORTSMOUTH, FEB. 19 AND 20.—Arrived off port the Planter, Thorn, Honduras ; Larkins, Ingram, Calcutta. PLYMOUTH, FEB. 21. Wind S. S. W.—Arrived the Devon shire (steamer), from Dublin ; Alexander, Adams,.Terceira. Sailed the Quiz, Luke, for Genoa; Lord Nelson, Quinton, London ; Frances Yald, Beale, ditto; Pearl, Lovering, ditto. FALMOUTH, FEB. W.—Wind W.S.W. to S.S.W., fresh breezes. 20. S. S• W. to W. S. W.—Arrived the Friendship, Richmond. from Maldon, for St. Michael's, with loss of chain plates; Coral, Paine, London, for Lisbon; City of Limerick, Holmes, London, for Limerick. _ _ YARMOUTH, ISLE OF WIGHT, FEB. :A—Arrived the Sarah Jane, APGerian, from Waterford._ SHOREHAM, FEB. 19.—Arrived off the Edmund, Pearson, from Shields, for Alexandria. DARTMOUTH, FEB. 20.-I:The Amelia., Bennett, from Ply mouth to Brenham and Torbay, came into harbour this morn ing, and was put on the ground full of water, having sprung a leak at sea; cargo discharged. LIVERPOOL, FEB. 20.—The Lady Ann; bound to Lime rick, has put back leaky, and with loss of bowsprit. The Al bert (steamer) has arrived from the Skerries, with about 650 packages from the Mary Elizabeth. 21.—The President (steamer) has arrived from the Skerries. with about 800 pack ages from the Mary Elizabeth. The Erin is discharging her cargo of coals into another vessel for London. SCARBOROUGH, FEB. 20.—The Endeavour, Harrison, from lier; l Sunderland, ostbo damagen'li ci r t northerly airs LONDON, FEB. 22.—Miind this day at noon, hc g w w sp as rit r , uki c o . n , aboodarrdeeoefivthedis mornin.c . , , byi ; alighti,li,ike,o.l morning,an d h b az u y t . cle Th are e d re off w I tied the Iberia, steamer, for SOUTHAMPTON, FEB. 2.. — Gibraltar. aasboauttbick f p oL r in io t . early part of the Dominica. dam : Isabella, Schrveder, d the Hebe, White, from St. DUBLIN, FEB. 19.—Arrived K jugston, Richardson,. Deme- DOVER, FEB. 20.—Sailed the . Ceres, Bergman, for Hotter- John's, New Brunswick. I t rara ; Lima, packet, FEB.it ing A e :rived the Minerva, from D I e an g , KINGSTON, r ....,. . . Arrived nth'eTUrilnyislaeds, M‘Taar, from Ne sviia• CORK, . ER. ._ 1 d the Balclutha, Adamson, fur London. New_ Off foundland. Sailed Cabel, from Bombay, •1 St. John's v, , E l% John Mitchell, sailed the Ist port the of Good Hope the 20th Dec., and St. Helena the ewl—ruAn l9.—Arrived the Nero, Hogan, from N o , Cape ~, t iL go ke the Ju d ith, Barlow, from Liverpool to Arica, the 31StSpo ke e , in lat. 2 N. long. 23 W. iota LIMEBIL , FE B . Prince Edward Island. K I NSALE, FLii. IB.—Sailed th e Y armouth, Forsyth, for London. 's Arrived off Islay the King Henry, Walker, from Prince Ed ward's Island. TOTAL Loss OF THE GOVEROR FENNER.--lhe Governor Fenner, from Liverpool to New York, sunk Ole 20th instant near Holyhead, after being in contact with the .Nottingham steamer, f,om Dubli n , C apta i n Vincent and mate saved, 122 persons drowned. VESSELS SP OKEN_ _ Th e North Briton, from Java toruCzo,r6kt,h ins!. , lat.l lat. S .10 4 n 2, .3 10 3 n 7 2 . f 4bythe Saian Jenny, Bordeaux to Vera Cruz, Guinea to Asc ens i on , D ee. 24, lat. 4 15 W. t : Persia, Stevens, L on d on to C ey l on . 31st, lat. 4 N., lon, 22, by th e N epa l enn i a, arr i ved at Ni ow Dieppe. Achilles, il arrived at L'O r i ent h er Majesty ' s ship Ro ll s , c oast o Ceylon to London, off the Cape, by the Copeland, arrived at St. Helena. Ouderneming, from Batavia; David Clarke and Fcrzh, from Calcutta, castword of the Cape, by the Sarah, arrived at St. Helens. Rhone, Secret-me, Havre to Valparaivo, Nov. 12, lat. 56 S., lon. 78 W. ; Rimac, Sproule, Liverpool to Valiaraiso, lat 59 S., lon. 79 W. The re-appointment of the Select Committee of int year has caused some stir among the banking interest. The remaining effort to be made is more especially on the part cf the joint-stock banks, whether of issue or other wise, who conceive that they have teen almost wholly overlooked in the early part of the inquiry, and wbo will have much to urge against the project they believe the Government to entertain, of establishing one great bank of issue for the whole country. Delegates from the va rious hanks, consequently, ate expectei in town, and head quarters have been engaged, whet e doliberations may take place, and unity of action be secured. ~^ •~{ 1 / TO THE EDITOR OP THE SUN. Sitt,—On Thursday last one of the most numerous and re spectable meetings of the inhabitants ever held in this town took place, at the Guildhall, on the occasion of the presenta tion of a silver salver and tea service, value one hundred guineas, to G. L. Parrott, Esq., Master in the Royal Navy and one of her Majesty's Justices of the Peace for the Borough. This valuable mark of respect from his fellow-townsmen was pre sented to Mr. Parrott, as a testimonial of their gratitude for his arduous and successful exertions in rescuing them from the mischievous effects of the notorious frauds by which the first election of Councillors in this Borough, under the Municipal Reform Act, was so unfortunately distinguished, and in remedying the evils occasioned by thelsubsequentmisgovern ment of the town by the Tory party, who for a time had the ascendancy in the Council. It will serve to mark the triumph of Liberal principles in Poole, to state that the Council, which originally consisted of 17 Tories and 7 Liberals, now contains 18 Liberals and 6 Tories ; and the conduct of the two parties cannot be better contrasted than by the mention of the facts, that the Tory party, with a rental from corporate property of 8001. per annum at the time they took office, made borough rates in the course of four years, exceeding 10,00 W. in amount, whilst the present Council, without the aid of any rental (for the corporate property having been seized in execution for the compensation awarded by the Tories to their partisan—the former Town Clerk—have required for the current half-year a borough-rate of 800/. only, .of which sum 5001. have been applied in payment of debts incurred by their predecessors. The inhabitants are deeply indebted to Mr. Parrott, for the zeal and ability displayed in his exertions to bring about this beneficial change, as well as for his straightforward and honour able conduct as a Magistrate ; and the manner in which they have acknowledged their obligations must be highly gratifying to him. The plate, bearing an app ropr i a t e i nscription, and written address, expressive of their grateful esteem and admi ration of the inhabitants towards Air. P arro tt, f or hi s conduct as a Magistrate and a citizen, were presented by George Penn;,}., Esq., the Mayor, on behalf of the subscribers. Poole, Feb. 20, 1941. A very considerable failure was talked of as having occurred at Hamburgh. The house named (that of Eimbke and Cc.) has been engaged in the corn trade, and its stoppag e is understood to have bean caused by that of k firm at rk which suspended its payment some time since. /17 f,O -- " - Z M . ~ cte r -01 if /..